MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: TallTitan34 on April 19, 2008, 06:06:42 PM
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With baseball season underway a lot of these threads in the Superbar are being "hijacked" and turned into a Cubs vs. Brewers pissing match.
Therefore what if we just contain all of the pissing into this single thread for the season. That way every topic in the superbar doesn't turn into "World Series Drought" vs. "Milwaukee Sucks".
I am a Cubs fan but I encourage Brewers fans (and fans of other teams) to reply. It won't be considered a hijack as this is the purpose of the thread!
Now....
... LET'S GET IT ON!
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As a show of good will, something we can all agree on. Dumb Cardinal fans. ;D
(http://www.red-hot-mama.com/images/uploads/morans.jpg)
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(http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b8da38b3127cceb7ff0998a84b00000016102AZuGjNkzcsj)
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Brewer Fan:
(http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v233/184/83/20307207/n20307207_33341595_5289.jpg)
Cubs Fan:
(http://members.cox.net/davewadding/TPWW/Maria_Kanellis0012.jpg)
Brewers Choke 5-0 Lead:
(http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0faQfhy9JUejh/610x.jpg)
From Robmufan:
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q250/FrontLobo/body%20painting/cubs2004body.jpg)
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CUBS = TALIBAN
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(http://thenastyboys.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/cubs.jpg)
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Brewer fans say the only reason Cubs fans go to games is Wrigley Field. Then why are 18,000 Cubs fans at Miller Park?
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=140816 (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=140816)
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(http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Mothman405/SteveBartman.jpg)
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(http://www.red-hot-mama.com/images/uploads/MIL.gif)
Pretty much the truth.
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(http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/Mothman405/SteveBartman.jpg)
Correct. We have made it to the playoffs in the last 26 years. Five times in fact.
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(http://www.cubssuckclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/cubs-diaper.jpg)
(http://www.cubssuckclub.com/gallery/Cub_Player_Humor/Hawkins_Blown_Save.gif)
ah hell... just go here,
http://www.cubssuckclub.com/cubs-suck-club/cubs-suck-images/?lzkfile=Cubs_Suckcessories%2F
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The fact that this site is even around is sad. I'm pretty sure you can't make fun of Cubs fans when 7,000 of your own have vowed to urinate themselves.
(http://www.peeyourpantsforthebrewers.com/images/pee_pants_store_logo.gif)
http://www.peeyourpantsforthebrewers.com/ (http://www.peeyourpantsforthebrewers.com/)
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Correct. We have made it to the playoffs in the last 26 years. Five times in fact.
And oddly enough, you have the same amount of championships we do over that time period. At least, in terms of sports, our state's pride rides on a team based in a city known as "Titletown." Chicago's sports pride lies in a team who has recently surpassed a century of futility.
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(http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/photographs/large/c49571-12.jpg)
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And oddly enough, you have the same amount of championships we do over that time period. At least, in terms of sports, our state's pride rides on a team based in a city known as "Titletown." Chicago's sports pride lies in a team who has recently surpassed a century of futility.
Chicago Sports Titles:
NFL: 9
NBA: 6
MLB: 5
NHL: 3
All of Wisconsin Sports Titles:
NFL: 12
NBA: 1
MLB: 1
NHL: 0
Chicago has 9 more titles than your whole state.
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(http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/photographs/large/c49571-12.jpg)
Nothing any Brew fan posts can beat this
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I love when Brewer fans give up on the Brewers and resort to bringing up the Packers.
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Chicago Sports Titles:
NFL: 9
NBA: 6
MLB: 5
NHL: 3
All of Wisconsin Sports Titles:
NFL: 12
NBA: 1
MLB: 1
NHL: 0
Chicago has 9 more titles than your whole state.
NHL? I can't fathom how Wisconsin hasn't won an NHL championship yet... oh wait...
I mean, the Milwaukee Wave are 4 time Major Indoor Soccer League Champions, and the Chicago Storm have yet to win a championship... At least choose a professional sport where both states are represented.
Besides, you're still missing the point. We support our Brewers, but they aren't a primary focus when the best franchise in not only all of football, but all of sports, is 150 miles north. Baseball is merely a convenient distraction until training camp starts.
That's why Wisconsin and Chicago (or even include all of Illinois) sports fans are on different wavelengths. Priorities differ.
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Chicago Sports Titles:
NFL: 9
NBA: 6
MLB: 5
NHL: 3
All of Wisconsin Sports Titles:
NFL: 12
NBA: 1
MLB: 1
NHL: 0
Chicago has 9 more titles than your whole state.
you forgot about a title in 1977 that the state of Wisconsin has ;D
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It's sad that places like Tampa Bay and Anahiem have a NHL team and Wisconsin doesn't.
If we want to bring the Admirals into it, Peoria, Rockford, and Chicago all have titles.
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and all of those cities can support an AHL team. How many other places could support one in WI?? Wausau?? La Crosse?? I think not! higher population means more teams because you can produce more revenue! it's simple math, you should realize that TT being an engineer.... :o
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I'm sure Madison could draw a team.
Brewers suck!
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Madison could not because the entire city doesn't care about anything but Badgers hockey. There's next to no way an AHL team would survive. Plus, they'd most likely have to rent the Kohl Center to have an arena and between bajer hockey and bball, when would they play?
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It's sad that places like Tampa Bay and Anahiem have a NHL team and Wisconsin doesn't.
If we want to bring the Admirals into it, Peoria, Rockford, and Chicago all have titles.
We don't really want an NHL team... Football rules 24/7/365
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I love when Brewer fans give up on the Brewers and resort to bringing up the Packers.
Agreed.
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every day on this board makes me more and more happy i'm a brewers fan and not a smug douchebag of a cubs fan
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every day on this board makes me more and more happy i'm a brewers fan and not a smug douchebag of a cubs fan
The funny part is....that 95% of the time these "discussions" are started by Brewers fans....with some stupid:
-"Wrigley is a dump..."
-"Cub fans are idiots..."
-"Even with the Cubs payroll they still suck..."
-"Cub fans only care about getting drunk...."
-blah, blah, blah....same tired BS
Truth be told, Cub fans (and the people in Chicago for that matter) could care less about Milwaukee other than looking to see where the no-names are in the standings.....that's it....seriously. We don't care about your BS, Bed-Bath-and-Beyond Ballpark, the foam-cheese-hat-wearing fat people, the cute and crazy sausage races, the polka, Bernie hanging out in his little playground.....or anything else going on related to the Brewers....period. It reminds of when we had to defend MU back in the C-USA days to other BCS schools trying to convince them that we were not a mid-major school. We get it.
The ridiculous, inferiority complex when it comes to Chicago, the Cubs, Wrigley Field, the fans, etc. is so tiresome.
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MarquetteFan94... I'm about to make my first legitimate response in either of these two Cubs-Brewers threads, and I promise I won't bring up the Packers, so hear me out. Before I was just playing along with the "pissing match" theme, but this is really how I feel.
The Cubs-Cards rivalry is obviously MUCH deeper than the Cubs-Brewers rivalry. In fact, many Cubs fans consider us a joke town 90 miles north with lots of available seats for an away series. From our perspective, we're trying to gain some respect in the NL Central (which we're finally starting to do). The only way to do that is by winning and making a name for ourselves as a fan base.
As far as grudges are concerned, I think it's just because we currently have no respect on a nation wide scale. I don't know if you've noticed, but we're a pretty darn good team this year, or at least have the potential to be. We start off the year with a GREAT comeback win against a tough divisional opponent, I turn on Sportscenter and Baseball Tonight to catch a bit of Brewers coverage and end up watching a 15 minute analysis of Fukudome's HR swing, with multiple replay angles and Ron Santos' radio call. Oh yeah, and the Brewers might have won. It's just frustrating from a Brewer fan's point of view. If I were more serious about baseball, it would really get on my nerves. But at this point, it's just a distraction until late summer.
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I respect that PXLibero2. Excellent post.
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the vast majority of cubs/brewers threads have been started by tt bashing the brewers in some way or another. it's a different atmosphere at wrigley and at Miller park. Tailgating is a completely different experience than going to the bars before the game. Baseball is not the biggest deal to the state of WI or Milwaukee, which is a small market baseball town compared to the vastly more populated Chicagoland area. Even just the northern suburbs have a larger population than the Metro Milwaukee area. it's asinine to say that brewers fans have started most threads. Look at the most recent once and who they've been started by and look at the percentage of bashings done by brewers fans vs cubs fans. it's pretty one sided.
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We could always start bears/ packers pissing match. ;) Never too early for football talk.
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If it weren't for Bud Selig orchestrating the Brewers switch to the National League -- thereby assuring himself of sellouts for Cub games and about quarter of their season attendance -- the Brewers might be playing in Washington, DC.
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If it weren't for Bud Selig orchestrating the Brewers switch to the National League -- thereby assuring himself of sellouts for Cub games and about quarter of their season attendance -- the Brewers might be playing in Washington, DC.
That's going a bit overboard. The Brewers were always an AVERAGE fan base in terms of attendance. There's no way they were in danger of being moved, and if they were, moving them to the NL so the Cubs could cover a "quarter" ( ::)) of their season attendance wouldn't have saved them.
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the vast majority of cubs/brewers threads have been started by tt bashing the brewers in some way or another. it's a different atmosphere at wrigley and at Miller park. Tailgating is a completely different experience than going to the bars before the game. Baseball is not the biggest deal to the state of WI or Milwaukee, which is a small market baseball town compared to the vastly more populated Chicagoland area. Even just the northern suburbs have a larger population than the Metro Milwaukee area. it's asinine to say that brewers fans have started most threads. Look at the most recent once and who they've been started by and look at the percentage of bashings done by brewers fans vs cubs fans. it's pretty one sided.
The sad part is threads that are started merely discussing baseball related items , a Brewer fan somehow feels they are entitled to say something negative. When in fact, I don't think any Brewer fan can say a single thing negative about the Cubs without looking like jackasses with mud in their faces.
I support MLB contraction, Milwaukee clearly doesn't deserve this sport franchise. Nothing has really changed wince 1965, except a 'modern' crapty stadium in place of a old crapty stadium.
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The sad part is threads that are started merely discussing baseball related items , a Brewer fan somehow feels they are entitled to say something negative. When in fact, I don't think any Brewer fan can say a single thing negative about the Cubs without looking like jackasses with mud in their faces.
I support MLB contraction, Milwaukee clearly doesn't deserve this sport franchise. Nothing has really changed wince 1965, except a 'modern' crapty stadium in place of a old crapty stadium.
Take off your red and blue shaded goggles for a moment and think....
With franchises like the Kansas City Royals around, Milwaukee is far from first on the list of teams to be contracted from the MLB.
In fact, our crappy new stadium doesn't seem so crappy to EVERYONE else.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/baseball/mlb/08/31/fvi/index.html
In terms of history and "what have you done for me lately," your Cubbies were fortunate enough to sneak by a young, talented, inexperienced Brewers club last year in the final weeks, then you disappeared from the playoffs before you could say "curse of the billy goat."
Meanwhile, we come into this year with the reigning NL Rookie of the Year, the youngest player to EVER hit 50 HRs, a new gold glover and consistent bat in centerfield, and a young talented pitching staff (see Gallardo/Parra) who performed well in their outings late last season.
EVERY major sports network/magazine predicted the Cubs to win the division, sometimes by a large margin. What prompted this? The addition of the Japanese "wonderchild"?
Central: The Cubs just might win their division by more games than any other team, especially if they add one more bat. The Brewers and Reds can challenge Chicago for a while, but don't have the pitching depth to win. The Cardinals, Astros and Pirates all have a chance to be bad.
- Tom Verducci, SI.com (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/tom_verducci/03/25/picks.explanation/1.html)
SI's baseball preview issue even has us finishing 3rd behind the Reds. Seriously?
This attitude of superiority is common among many Cubs fans I encounter at Miller Park during Brewers-Cubs series. But what kind of superiority is it? We almost find it comical that you feel superior in your century of mediocrity. Sure, the Brewers have been mediocre for quite awhile. But we don't live our sports lives through a team who is legendary only for its futility. We appreciate America's past time for what it means to us. A time to get together, toss around the baseball or football, have a brew, grill some brats, and support our local boys in the process. If they win, awesome. If they lose... get 'em tomorrow. It keeps us well occupied and entertained until our REAL season starts in early September.
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PXILibero2 - there you go again, trying to use logic with Cubs fans. ;)
Great posts...I think what you're saying pretty much sums it up for most Brewers fans I know. Maybe that's why Cubs fans get so upset at us...they can't believe that we don't live and die by Brewers games.
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That's great. I'm glad to hear that really no one cares about the Brewers because they can only enjoy the Packers. You can admit to being fickle fans, and then move on.
I apologize for enjoying baseball more than football. BTW, I am a Packers fan.
You can't possibly back the NL ROY going to Braun can you? Tulo deserved SO much more.
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As a White Sox fan, I enjoy listening to this pissing match.
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I can end this thread.
http://www.onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/doingthewave.html
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As a White Sox fan, I enjoy listening to this pissing match.
I really like the White Sox chances this year now that Detroit tanked. Swisher was a excellence pick up for KW. With Thome starting to figure it out, the team will be good.
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I can end this thread.
http://www.onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/doingthewave.html
This is worse...
(http://chicagoist.com/images/2004_09_ronniewoowoo.jpg)
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This is worse...
(http://chicagoist.com/images/2004_09_ronniewoowoo.jpg)
Yet this man still won't urinate himself if his team makes the playoffs.
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(http://images.620wtmj.com/images/620wtmj_121407gagneturnbowjs.JPG)
why would you want this great thread to end? I'll let the brewers fans discuss their closer situation.
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I missed the end of the Brewer game today. What happened? ;D
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Yet this man still won't urinate himself if his team makes the playoffs.
He just does it for craps and giggles.
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is the word "crap" really scripted out?
Sh!t
crap
crap
crap
$hit
EDIT: crap. It is.
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Some of you (cough...ptm...cough) are taking this WAAAYYY too seriously.
Congratulations on beating up on the Pirates these last few days.
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Some of you (cough...ptm...cough) are taking this WAAAYYY too seriously.
Congratulations on beating up on the Pirates these last few days.
Hey, they may suck, but you still have to go out there and win the game! And don't worry, we see them 6 more times in the next month!
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Fandom/cock measuring contests about teams are the dumbest arguments, but they never seem to go away. It doesn't surprise me that all the brewer and cubs dumbasses continue this asinine argument of who sucks more, who is more stupid of a fan base, team, management, etc.
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That's great. I'm glad to hear that really no one cares about the Brewers because they can only enjoy the Packers. You can admit to being fickle fans, and then move on.
I apologize for enjoying baseball more than football. BTW, I am a Packers fan.
You can't possibly back the NL ROY going to Braun can you? Tulo deserved SO much more.
I am a Cubs fan and i can ABSOLUTELY back the ROY going to Braun.
Braun Tulo
Games 113 155
Runs 91 104
Hits 146 177
HR 34 24
RBI 97 99
AVG .324 .291
OPS 1.003 .838
SB 15 7
Braun put up better or equal numbers in EVERY catgory (except hits) AND he played in 42 less games. Extrapolate those numbers and its not even close. The only place Tulo has an edge is fielding (granted a very large one) Its not even close, Braun was hands down ROY. He single handedly kept the Brewers in the race.
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His fielding cost the Brewers just as many games. Their WARP3 stats aren't even close.
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The funny part is....that 95% of the time these "discussions" are started by Brewers fans....with some stupid:
-"Wrigley is a dump..."
-"Cub fans are idiots..."
-"Even with the Cubs payroll they still suck..."
-"Cub fans only care about getting drunk...."
-blah, blah, blah....same tired BS
Really? There are about 5 pages of posts...an example of a Brewer fan starting these discussions would be nice. I agree on the same tired BS though. You just have it a little bit backwards.
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The sad part is threads that are started merely discussing baseball related items , a Brewer fan somehow feels they are entitled to say something negative. When in fact, I don't think any Brewer fan can say a single thing negative about the Cubs without looking like jackasses with mud in their faces.
Wow. This is hilarious coming from you. Let me just cite your initial, completely unprovoked responses to Miller Park article posted...
It isn't already? They have restaurants, interactive games, and slides sounds like a wannabe Six Flags for a wannabe fanbase.
You were saying?
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When in fact, I don't think any Brewer fan can say a single thing negative about the Cubs without looking like jackasses with mud in their faces.
BTW, this comment makes absolutely no sense. If I say I think its possible the Cubs pitching may be the reason they fall short this year, is that saying something negative about the Cubs? If so, does that make me look like a jackass with mud in my face?
Now, were I to say something negative about Cub fans like you [cough] Wrigley Field A$$ Clown [/cough], I can assure you there is a large contingent of actual Cub fans who would enthusiastically agree with me. I have some experience in this area, as 10-15 years ago I was a 20-25 year old, non-Cub fan, Wrigley Field A$$ Clown, who has long since recovered.
For your own sake, heed the warning signs...
- Have you ever found yourself chanting, Sammy! Sammy! Sammy...?
- Have you ever worn Mardi Gras beads to a Cub game?
- Have you ever thrown garbage on the field from the bleachers?
- Have you ever worn a floppy Cub hat, or worn your hat backwards?
- Have you ever found yourself at the Cubbie Bear, Bernies, etc. after a game, not really sure whether the Cubs won or lost?
- While at a game or watching a game on TV in a bar, have your ever felt the urge, or acted upon the urge to randomly yell out, Cubbies?
- Have you ever referred to Miller Park as Wrigley Field North?
- When at a Cub game at Miller park do you feel the need to make your presence known? To make sure everyone knows you are a Cub fan, and that you're there?
These are just a few. There are others, but don't worry, its never too late to change. When you not only stop doing these things, but notice and are annoyed by those around you doing them, you are an actual Cub fan. Good luck!
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BTW, this comment makes absolutely no sense. If I say I think its possible the Cubs pitching may be the reason they fall short this year, is that saying something negative about the Cubs? If so, does that make me look like a jackass with mud in my face?
Now, were I to say something negative about Cub fans like you [cough] Wrigley Field A$$ Clown [/cough], I can assure you there is a large contingent of actual Cub fans who would enthusiastically agree with me. I have some experience in this area, as 10-15 years ago I was a 20-25 year old, non-Cub fan, Wrigley Field A$$ Clown, who has long since recovered.
For your own sake, heed the warning signs...
- Have you ever found yourself chanting, Sammy! Sammy! Sammy...?
- Have you ever worn Mardi Gras beads to a Cub game?
- Have you ever thrown garbage on the field from the bleachers?
- Have you ever worn a floppy Cub hat, or worn your hat backwards?
- Have you ever found yourself at the Cubbie Bear, Bernies, etc. after a game, not really sure whether the Cubs won or lost?
- While at a game or watching a game on TV in a bar, have your ever felt the urge, or acted upon the urge to randomly yell out, Cubbies?
- Have you ever referred to Miller Park as Wrigley Field North?
- When at a Cub game at Miller park do you feel the need to make your presence known? To make sure everyone knows you are a Cub fan, and that you're there?
These are just a few. There are others, but don't worry, its never too late to change. When you not only stop doing these things, but notice and are annoyed by those around you doing them, you are an actual Cub fan. Good luck!
Don't forget the same pair of white Oakleys that every other guy in the stadium is also wearing.
Take a bow, sir!
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His fielding cost the Brewers just as many games. Their WARP3 stats aren't even close.
MVP voting and ROY voting are both the same. They reward excellent offensive seasons rather than excellent defensive seasons. I would disagree his defense cost the Brewers a lot of games... most of the time if he committed an error he followed it up with a long ball. Im just looking at it objectively, as a Cubs fan Braun scare the crap out of me.
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I would disagree his defense cost the Brewers a lot of games... most of the time if he committed an error he followed it up with a long ball. Im just looking at it objectively, as a Cubs fan Braun scare the crap out of me.
I disagree. I look at this young season and the fact that the Brewers are winning despite not hitting at all, and I think it is very simply because their defense is appreciably better. I think it did cost them games. Braun to LF will make him a much better player (and he was already very, very good), and Hall to 3B is huge. Even if he "made up for" his errors, its still extra AB's, extra pitches that need to be throwm, runners on, etc. The LF/3B situation, the addition of Cameron, and replacing Estrada with Kendall are going to make a night and day difference for the Brewers.
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Braun committed 26 errors last year. They came in 23 different games. 21 games he committed 1 error, 1 game he committed 2 errors and 1 game he committed 3 errors.
The Brewers were 12-11 in games in which Braun committed 1 or more errors
of those 11 loses, 3 of them lead to 0 runs being scored
of the remaining loses 5 of them came in games where the Brewers lost by 4 or more runs. In each of these games Braun's error(s) led to no more than 2 runs.
This leaves us with 3 games in which Braun errors directly lead to a Brewer's loss. Yes it can be argued that each error changes the course of the game but Im just arguing that only in 3 games did the error directly cost the Brewers the game. I guarantee his bat won more games than that.
For those interested a run down of Braun's errors and their situations can be found here
http://brewernation.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/01/ryan_brauns_err.html (http://brewernation.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/01/ryan_brauns_err.html)
I can not believe I am going through such great lengths to defend a Brewer while none of the Brewers fans are defending him
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For your own sake, heed the warning signs...
- Have you ever found yourself chanting, Sammy! Sammy! Sammy...?
No. I hated Sammy as soon as he stopped using Jheri Curl
- Have you ever worn Mardi Gras beads to a Cub game?
No.
- Have you ever thrown garbage on the field from the bleachers?
No, I did think the balls thrown were hilarious. Brennaman was just being a douche.
- Have you ever worn a floppy Cub hat, or worn your hat backwards?
Not since about sophomore year of high school, but have you been on campus lately? Sure are a lot of kids with their hats on backwards...
- Have you ever found yourself at the Cubbie Bear, Bernies, etc. after a game, not really sure whether the Cubs won or lost?
No.
- While at a game or watching a game on TV in a bar, have your ever felt the urge, or acted upon the urge to randomly yell out, Cubbies?
No, and I despise 'Cubbies'. Only hot chicks and pre-teens can use the word Cubbies
- Have you ever referred to Miller Park as Wrigley Field North?
Yes. If that makes me a douche, looks like your management is as well: http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2003/10/13/story5.html
- When at a Cub game at Miller park do you feel the need to make your presence known? To make sure everyone knows you are a Cub fan, and that you're there?
Not really. I will stand up and cheer for the Cubs when deemed necessary. I usually go with a fair amount of Brewer fans, and there's no problems. However, it is certain that some 300 pounder will yell something no matter what, completely embarrassing the Brewer fans with me.
It's a pretty solid list, but for the most part your are preaching to the choir. Wrigley douche bags aren't preferred, but they spend their money which does to the team. I can't complain.
On the contrary, let's not paint a picture that every good fan never gets drunk, as a good percentage do. Weren't we all complaining that the student section isn't getting drunk enough?
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Braun committed 26 errors last year. They came in 23 different games. 21 games he committed 1 error, 1 game he committed 2 errors and 1 game he committed 3 errors.
The Brewers were 12-11 in games in which Braun committed 1 or more errors
of those 11 loses, 3 of them lead to 0 runs being scored
of the remaining loses 5 of them came in games where the Brewers lost by 4 or more runs. In each of these games Braun's error(s) led to no more than 2 runs.
This leaves us with 3 games in which Braun errors directly lead to a Brewer's loss. Yes it can be argued that each error changes the course of the game but Im just arguing that only in 3 games did the error directly cost the Brewers the game. I guarantee his bat won more games than that.
For those interested a run down of Braun's errors and their situations can be found here
http://brewernation.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/01/ryan_brauns_err.html (http://brewernation.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/01/ryan_brauns_err.html)
I can not believe I am going through such great lengths to defend a Brewer while none of the Brewers fans are defending him
Fair enough. I respect that, and retract that statement. I personally am I supporter of great defensive play of offensive. I believe that award voting should follow the same thought process, but to make baseball appeal they will go with the flashy long balls. So is life.
Tulo had a WARP3 of 11.2. Braun had a WARP3 of 5.2. Speaks volumes to me, but not to those who matter. Tulo also had that awesome unassisted triple play.
More interesting: Neither are having 'decent' years so far. It's early...but sophomore slumps happen.
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TT34 bought a hilarious Cubs book from the Heckler publication. It has the hated Lincoln Park Trixie and Douche Bag Guy in diagram form, I'll ask him for it and scan it up. It's hilarious.
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BTW, this comment makes absolutely no sense. If I say I think its possible the Cubs pitching may be the reason they fall short this year, is that saying something negative about the Cubs? If so, does that make me look like a jackass with mud in my face?
Now, were I to say something negative about Cub fans like you [cough] Wrigley Field A$$ Clown [/cough], I can assure you there is a large contingent of actual Cub fans who would enthusiastically agree with me. I have some experience in this area, as 10-15 years ago I was a 20-25 year old, non-Cub fan, Wrigley Field A$$ Clown, who has long since recovered.
For your own sake, heed the warning signs...
- Have you ever found yourself chanting, Sammy! Sammy! Sammy...?
- Have you ever worn Mardi Gras beads to a Cub game?
- Have you ever thrown garbage on the field from the bleachers?
- Have you ever worn a floppy Cub hat, or worn your hat backwards?
- Have you ever found yourself at the Cubbie Bear, Bernies, etc. after a game, not really sure whether the Cubs won or lost?
- While at a game or watching a game on TV in a bar, have your ever felt the urge, or acted upon the urge to randomly yell out, Cubbies?
- Have you ever referred to Miller Park as Wrigley Field North?
- When at a Cub game at Miller park do you feel the need to make your presence known? To make sure everyone knows you are a Cub fan, and that you're there?
These are just a few. There are others, but don't worry, its never too late to change. When you not only stop doing these things, but notice and are annoyed by those around you doing them, you are an actual Cub fan. Good luck!
This is fun....let me try....if you're concerned that you're turning into Floyd the Barber and are intimidated by coming on down to the big city but are hesitant to close down the shop and/or are not quite sure if you're showing the warning signs of being a true, blue Brewers fan....perhaps this list can help...
Have you ever:
-Or has anyone in your immediate family ever worn a foam piece of cheese on your head....proudly.
-Worn a necklace made of beads and mini beer mugs?
-Gone to a Brewers game wearing a home Favre jersey only to return the next time wearing the away Favre jersey because they lost the last time and you're superstitious?
-Left a Brewers game early to take advantage of that free Summerfest stamp you received early that same morning by bringing a lid of Sentry sour cream.....so you can see Crosby, Stills and Nash?
-Referred to the Brewers as the "Brew Crew?"
-Screamed at the top of your lungs at an adult dressed in an 8 foot bratwurst costume after not raising your voice the entire rest of the day....and not being able to name your starting catcher, shortstop or second baseman?
-Sang "Roll Out the Barrel?"
-Ordered Potato Skins at a TGI Friday's in a MLB Ballpark?
-DUI'd half a mile to go play bingo after a game....or gamble?
-Mistakenly asked Geoff Jenkins (you must miss him so much) for his autograph by saying, "Mr. Favre, can you please sign my jersey?"
-Sat inside Miller Park either getting leaked on, wearing your jacket b/c it's 55 degrees "inside" or wearing your blueblockers?
-used modern day technology by texting "Go Pack Go" to be broadcast on the scoreboard during a Brewers game on a September Sunday afternoon?
-Made fun of your buddy for grilling turkey brats on his tandem smokey joes in the parking lot?
-spent an afternoon in the MP parking lot wearing Brewers gear (perhaps a foam replica of Miller Park on your head) without ever thinking of going into the game....while you had tickets in your pocket....it's not a bar mind you, it's a parking lot.
-Paid $1 (or more) to urinate in a plastic barrel/bucket surrounded by a plywood screen b/c the line in the parking lot port-o-lets was too long?
-caught yourself still using the word "brewski" and meaning it
-asked yourself, "why am i always hanging out in a parking lot?"
These are only some of the warning signs......mind you, there isn't too much room left on the Cubs bandwagon....but the season is early and you still have some time to think about it....
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Have you ever:
-Or has anyone in your immediate family ever worn a foam piece of cheese on your head....proudly.
Cheeseheads = Packers. Packers =/= Brewers. Try to stay on topic.
-Worn a necklace made of beads and mini beer mugs?
Nope.
-Gone to a Brewers game wearing a home Favre jersey only to return the next time wearing the away Favre jersey because they lost the last time and you're superstitious?
No, but are you honestly trying to tell me you've never seen a Bears jersey at Wrigley?
-Left a Brewers game early to take advantage of that free Summerfest stamp you received early that same morning by bringing a lid of Sentry sour cream.....so you can see Crosby, Stills and Nash?
No. Summerfest sucks.
-Referred to the Brewers as the "Brew Crew?"
Yes, but I have never at any point, for no reason, screamed BREW CREW!
-Screamed at the top of your lungs at an adult dressed in an 8 foot bratwurst costume after not raising your voice the entire rest of the day....and not being able to name your starting catcher, shortstop or second baseman?
Jason Kendall. JJ Hardy. Rickie Weeks... You've got "Take Me Out to the Ballgame," we've got the Klement's Famous Racing Sausages (go Hot Dog) AND "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" AND....
-Sang "Roll Out the Barrel?"
You're goddamn right I have.
-Ordered Potato Skins at a TGI Friday's in a MLB Ballpark?
No.
-DUI'd half a mile to go play bingo after a game....or gamble?
No.
-Mistakenly asked Geoff Jenkins (you must miss him so much) for his autograph by saying, "Mr. Favre, can you please sign my jersey?"
No.
-Sat inside Miller Park either getting leaked on, wearing your jacket b/c it's 55 degrees "inside" or wearing your blueblockers?
No. Yes. No.
-used modern day technology by texting "Go Pack Go" to be broadcast on the scoreboard during a Brewers game on a September Sunday afternoon?
No. But I have texted "Don't you hate pants?" and it appeared on the board.
-Made fun of your buddy for grilling turkey brats on his tandem smokey joes in the parking lot?
No.
-spent an afternoon in the MP parking lot wearing Brewers gear (perhaps a foam replica of Miller Park on your head) without ever thinking of going into the game....while you had tickets in your pocket....it's not a bar mind you, it's a parking lot.
No.
-Paid $1 (or more) to urinate in a plastic barrel/bucket surrounded by a plywood screen b/c the line in the parking lot port-o-lets was too long?
No.
-caught yourself still using the word "brewski" and meaning it?
"Brewski" is a regional thing? Bullsh!t.
-asked yourself, "why am i always hanging out in a parking lot?"
No.
These are only some of the warning signs......mind you, there isn't too much room left on the Cubs bandwagon....but the season is early and you still have some time to think about it....
You're right. Most Cubs fans are bandwagon.
;D
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The Cubs-Cards rivalry is obviously MUCH deeper than the Cubs-Brewers rivalry.
Duh!
The cubs vs. cards rivalry is a rivalry because the two teams have a storied past. The breweres vs. cubs is just a demographic rivalry, no more important than the cardinals vs royals rivalry. These demographic rivalries have absolutely nothign to do with how good a team is or is not, but rather whose fans can piss the longest (case in point... this thread).
With that said, as a cardinals fan, I absolutely hate the Cubs. However, some of the games a have ever been to are at Wrigley field. The fans (at least the ones i have sat around) are knowledgeable and as much as they dispise the cardinals as much as i the Cubs, there is a mutual admiration for how competitive our two teams are.
Now, I am going to the brewers vs cubs game tongiht and sitting in left field in full cardinals fan attire. I know for sure that I will be the butt of a few dumbass drunk brewers fans still riding high on last seasons success. I know that as soon as the brewers score their first run, that insults will be hurled my way, only for the cardinals to come back and take the lead within the next two innings. And with certainty, there will be a group of high schools sitting right behind me, drunk off of the 3 beers they chugged in teh parking lot before the game, who will make remark after remark only to be met with correct information from me. At which point they will think i am looking for a fight and they will slowly back off, only to be crushed by my wry look over my shoulder as the cardinals take the lead and win the game.
After this rant... i cannot wait to get to the parking lot and drink before the resumption of the Sud's Series tongiht.
go red birds.
, i cannot wait to get to miller park tonight to watch the resumption of the Suds Series.
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Yeah....must be all those attendance records....in spring training and the regular season.
;D
I'm sorry....based on your answers....you must remain a Brewers fan. Don't worry....the Aaron Rodgers era begins soon enough....keep rollin' out that barrel!
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GO TWINS!
End of discussion
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Who?
;)
Love that clip on your post...literally laughed out loud.
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The American League has won 16 of the last 24 world series. They have also won 11 of the last 16 world series (thank the expansion teams for 3 of those wins). The American League has also won 10 of the last 11 all star games with the one non-win coming in the infamous tie game. They are also 16-3-1 in the last 20.
Arguing who is going to win 84 games and win the worst division in baseball is pretty funny.
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I have seen cheeseheads not only at Miller Park but at Wrigley during Brewer games as well.
Also when I said I have nothing against tailgating, that was assuming you actually do enter the park by the first inning. Otherwise what a joke.
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Cheeseheads transcend every sport in Wisconsin. They have become the essence of Wisconsin, and all it took was one piece of foam.
Tailgating provides a reason for Bill Schroeder to say why Miller Park is empty every weekday. "A lot of tailgaters out there still tracking into the ballpark today..."
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Also I saw awhile back someone noted that a Cubs fan (myself) started this thread. The reason I started it is because I understand there are people who are sick of reading Cubs vs. Brewers propaganda. As result instead of them having to read it in every Superbar thread they can simply steer clear of this single thread.
But for those of you who just want to have fun in a pissing match this is the place to go.
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The American League has won 16 of the last 24 world series. They have also won 11 of the last 16 world series (thank the expansion teams for 3 of those wins). The American League has also won 10 of the last 11 all star games with the one non-win coming in the infamous tie game. They are also 16-3-1 in the last 20.
Arguing who is going to win 84 games and win the worst division in baseball is pretty funny.
Nobody here cares about the American League....let your pitchers hit.
There is one team with a winning record right now in the AL Central.
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Nobody here cares about the American League....let your pitchers hit.
I find that a stretch, Nobody?
There is one team with a winning record right now in the AL Central.
I never mentioned the AL Central.
I just thought it was humorous that people were arguing over two teams that are mediocre at best.
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Nobody here cares about the American League....let your pitchers hit.
What will David Ortiz do then? Just play video games in the clubhouse throughout the whole game instead of just in between at-bats?
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I have seen cheeseheads not only at Miller Park but at Wrigley during Brewer games as well.
Also when I said I have nothing against tailgating, that was assuming you actually do enter the park by the first inning. Otherwise what a joke.
As a Brewers fan, I'm with you on this one. I love the tailgating, but only BEFORE and AFTER the game.
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as long as David Ortiz doesn't play the field, he should never get MVP, unless he hits for the triple crown, and then some.
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As a Brewers fan, I'm with you on this one. I love the tailgating, but only BEFORE and AFTER the game.
+1. If you're going to spend a day at the ballpark, spend the day. It ruins the whole day when you go with people who get there a half hour early and want to tailgate so you end up getting in around the 4th inning. The lots open early for a reason.
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I just thought it was humorous that people were arguing over two teams that are mediocre at best.
Yes, I'm willing to go out on a limb and say very few (if any) of the people involved in a thread between Cubs and Brewers fans are not really concerned with the AL...and how many Word Series they've won over the last x years. Sure, the AS game now has meaning...we'll see what happens.
I guess it was wrong to assume based on "SaintPaul Warrior" that you may have been a Twins fan....hence the AL Central reference....my bad.
Calling the Cubs mediocre at best...especially at this point of the season with their record and they way they've been playing (i.e. second best winning PCT in baseball)is pretty off-base...pun intended. It's a long season but the Cubs have not been anything close to mediocre.
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as long as David Ortiz doesn't play the field, he should never get MVP, unless he hits for the triple crown, and then some.
I'll agree with that. A real ball player plays the field. The DH needs to go.
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Wisconsin = huge German heritage
Polka = German
Making fun of us for singing it at Brewers games really doesn't bother me...
The wave, on the other hand, needs to go...and the only time it is somewhat amusing is at Badger football games
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Wisconsin = huge German heritage
Polka = German
Making fun of us for singing Roll Out the Barrel at Brewers games really doesn't bother me...
The wave, on the other hand, needs to go...and the only time it is somewhat amusing is at Badger football games
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Gagne needs the crowd to do the wave that way they don't see him blow yet another lead!!!
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I'm really not surprised:
(http://tsa.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-3859505dt.jpg)
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Gagne needs the crowd to do the wave that way they don't see him blow yet another lead!!!
can't blame Gagne for getting Pujols to hit into a double play, just to have Weeks f' it up. Gagne will be solid, I still haven't lost faith...
and how can you seriously hate the racing sausages margptm? yes they are silly, but so is having random B list celebrities sing the 7th inning stretch, but yet no one has made fun of the Cubs for that. In fact I will take the racing sausages over the used-to-be's singing the stretch at the ballpark any day.
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can't blame Gagne for getting Pujols to hit into a double play, just to have Weeks f' it up.
No, but you can blame him for giving up a walk and a base hit to put the Brewers in the position to need a double play to get out of the inning. Either way, Weeks should have made a better throw. He had a ton of time.
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No, but you can blame him for giving up a walk and a base hit to put the Brewers in the position to need a double play to get out of the inning. Either way, Weeks should have made a better throw. He had a ton of time.
You must have been doing the wave...there was no walk, he hit Ceaser Izturis in the arm.
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And to whoever brought up backwards hats. . .
A) Fans of every team in baseball and every other sport wear backwards hats.
B) Buckethead Brigade.
C) Grown men wearing Burger King crowns for Prince.
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You must have been doing the wave...there was no walk, he hit Ceaser Izturis in the arm.
No wave today, but you're right--HBP, not BB. I was a few beers in by then (LONG GAME). My mistake.
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And to whoever brought up backwards hats. . .
A) Fans of every team in baseball and every other sport wear backwards hats.
B) Buckethead Brigade.
C) Grown men wearing Burger King crowns for Prince.
A) Not to the extent seen in Cubs fans (according to a study I made up for this post).
B) Now defunct, since Daron Sutton's departure from the TV booth.
C) A prince is royalty. Crowns are worn by royalty. A stretch, sure, but unless Fukudome is Japanese for "backwards cap," there's no excuse for such behavior.
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They tried to start the wave numerous times (INCLUDING THE BOTTOM OF THE 9TH WITH THE WINNING RUN ON BASE), it just didn't make it through with the large empty sections on the left foul line.
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C) Grown men wearing Burger King crowns for Prince.
Please, someone tell me WHY they had to have a Prince Fielder bobblehead giveaway a couple weeks ago with a crown on Fielder's head? And I was annoyed by the constant 1982 promotions. I'd rather they just gave away a voucher for a free sausage at the Sausage Haus on your next trip to the park. Or if they have a Fielder bobblehead again, put a stick of celery in his hands instead of a bat.
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No wave today, but you're right--HBP, not BB. I was a few beers in by then (LONG GAME). My mistake.
That was a long game. just over 5 hours. It sucked seing my cards lose, but was a hell of a game, just like monday night. It was worth calling in sick to see.
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(http://i16.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/eb/be/905f_1.JPG)
This HAS to be the only bobblehead that features a head that is more correctly proportional to the players actual body.
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Here's another reason some brewers fans are just as big of douchebags. I'm at the game now sitting next to a kid with a retarded under lip goatee and earring. The kid has spent the last 20 min pretending to talk to his friends promoting his brewers pod cast... What a douche
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I'm at the game now sitting next to a kid with a retarded under lip goatee and earring.
Milwaukee has a high percentage of these nu-metal era leftover losers.
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as long as David Ortiz doesn't play the field, he should never get MVP, unless he hits for the triple crown, and then some.
The only time a DH and an AL pitcher should be in contention for the MVP, is if they teammates split, and split in every facet. If Papelbon and Ortiz both have MVP caliber seasons, then Jonathon Ortiz could get put on the trophy.
I hate the AL.
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I love when MU alums from Chicago rip on Milwaukee and Wisconsin, seems pretty ironic to me.
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Okay, I've been reading this thread for a while now keeping to myself.
I am a Brewers fan! I hate the Cubs!
I have been to many games at both parks. I like both parks for different reasons. Wrigley is old school. I agree that most fans at the game are there for the game. Miller Park is a neat new stadium. Lots of stuff going on to take your attention away from the game. As a true baseball fan I don't care about that stuff, but it makes it a lot easier for my wife to go to the games. It makes it more family friendly.
All the people on these posts who keep saying that Wrigley is a joke need to step back and look at it with open eyes. It's a great place for baseball. The people who are saying the Milwaukee fans don't care about baseball because of the all the extracurriculars at the game should look at the bigger picture. Milwaukee is about 10%? the size of Chicago. Putting people in the stands is harder in this market. If it takes some of the BS to get them there, so be it. It shouldn't take away from the fact that there are many fans who still remain dedicated to watching the game.
Comparing the douchbags from Milwaukee vs. the douchbags from Chicago makes no sense to me. Any way you look at it they're all still douchbags. They are everywhere.
I wish the best to both teams this year. It is really fun to have two quality teams so close that it creates a rivalry.
In closing, while everyone is sitting here bitching about who has better fans, which town is better, what traditions are more interesting,etc., I'll be the one going to the ballparks to watch some good baseball.
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Good post Badger Killer!
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Good post Badger Killer!
It was too rational for me. :P
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In closing, while everyone is sitting here bitching about who has better fans, which town is better, what traditions are more interesting,etc., I'll be the one going to the ballparks to watch some good baseball.
Are you questioning our collective fanhood?!?! :D
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Are you questioning our collective fanhood?!?! :D
does your collective fanhood need questioning?
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does your collective fanhood need questioning?
Possibly his manhood. :-*
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I have been to many games at both parks. I like both parks for different reasons. Wrigley is old school. I agree that most fans at the game are there for the game. Miller Park is a neat new stadium. Lots of stuff going on to take your attention away from the game. As a true baseball fan I don't care about that stuff, but it makes it a lot easier for my wife to go to the games. It makes it more family friendly.
In closing, while everyone is sitting here bitching about who has better fans, which town is better, what traditions are more interesting,etc., I'll be the one going to the ballparks to watch some good baseball.
I have to agree with you! I am definitely a Brewer fan all the way - sorry guys. But I love both parks. I love Wrigley for the great atmosphere, it's just something you can't beat! On the other hand, Miller Park is a five minute drive for me and let's face it, A LOT Cheaper in gas money for me these days than a drive to Chicago!!
Now I haven't missed a game at home yet this year, and since we're starting our away series with the Cubbies this week I'm driving down to good old Chicago tomorrow for the games at Wrigley.
Just like "jaybilaswho?" I'll be braving the criticism and evil eyes of those around me as I will be decked out in my brewer garb as I am at our home games. But remember this as you throw your peanuts and beer at me, when I watch people come strolling into my section at Miller Park during the Florida Marlins series and you're dressed in your Cubs gear from head to toe, I leave you be... at least when I come to your house, I'm there to root for my team - not just purely to root against yours.
Here's hoping for sunny skies this week! Damn roofless stadiums! ;)
Badgerkiller - we'll see you at the ballpark!
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http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/mag/franchiseRanks
.....
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But remember this as you throw your peanuts and beer at me, when I watch people come strolling into my section at Miller Park during the Florida Marlins series and you're dressed in your Cubs gear from head to toe, I leave you be... at least when I come to your house, I'm there to root for my team - not just purely to root against yours.
Thats the most annoying thing in the world. At the cardinal game last tuesday, I was sitting in the right field bleachers. After every play, for brewers or cardinals, Boos would come hurtling down from behind me. I didnt think much about it, but Boos kept coming after every good play for either team. After a while, I turn around and a few rows back from me are two cubs fans; they're the ones booing. Why would you go to a Cards/Brewers game just to be annoying??? Save teh $15 and stay home. Between these two and the drunk kid that got out of the trailer park with his friends, only to obnoxiuosly shout dumb comments/insults, the right field bleachers sucked. I am a left field bleacher guy all the way.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/mag/franchiseRanks
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Milwaukee people are just more easily satisfied. We all know that. :)
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Thats the most annoying thing in the world. At the cardinal game last tuesday, I was sitting in the right field bleachers. After every play, for brewers or cardinals, Boos would come hurtling down from behind me. I didnt think much about it, but Boos kept coming after every good play for either team. After a while, I turn around and a few rows back from me are two cubs fans; they're the ones booing. Why would you go to a Cards/Brewers game just to be annoying??? Save teh $15 and stay home. Between these two and the drunk kid that got out of the trailer park with his friends, only to obnoxiuosly shout dumb comments/insults, the right field bleachers sucked. I am a left field bleacher guy all the way.
As a Cubs fan, I'll agree with you. I'll go to Brewer games (especially when they're giving away tickets to MU students, already happened for 5 games this year) and often wear a Cubs shirt. But there's no need to boo. I'll sit quietly, applaud good plays, and enjoy the game. No need for any booing.
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I went to Miller Park on Saturday and tried to enjoy the game but whenever the Marlins came up to bat a guy in my section had to start the wave. And the worst part is the Brewer fans actually did it.
Miller Park is not where to go to if you want to actually watch the game.
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I went to Miller Park on Saturday and tried to enjoy the game but whenever the Marlins came up to bat a guy in my section had to start the wave. And the worst part is the Brewer fans actually did it.
Miller Park is not where to go to if you want to actually watch the game.
Just ignore the wave people. I do. That is one thing I hate about Miller Park. I hate the unnatural carnal knowledgeing wave. Period.
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I relish the following:
You will go to your grave without seeing a Cubs World Series victory.
Your children will go to their graves without seeing a Cubs World Series victory.
Your grandchildren will go to their graves without seeing a Cubs World Series victory.
Few things make me happier than watching dejected Cubs fans TV in October and seeing little kids and old women crying when they realize this.
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wave not bad, when the idiots do it backwards like they did on Saturday, that's annoying.
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I went to Miller Park on Saturday and tried to enjoy the game but whenever the Marlins came up to bat a guy in my section had to start the wave. And the worst part is the Brewer fans actually did it.
Miller Park is not where to go to if you want to actually watch the game.
As far as "a guy in my section..." stories, just avoid the upper deck or you'll always get a few. Miller Park's high "affordability" rating just caters to letting trash in the upper deck so they can get the extra revenue and breaking attendance records. If I found out I could only get a ticket in the 400 level, I think I would just stay in the parking lot and listen to Uecker or go home and watch it on tv.
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25 years later, and it still applies.
Lee Elia will always be my favorite Cubs manager of all time. Second on the list is of course Dusty Baker.
"The (bleepers) don't even work. That's why they're out at the (bleeping) game. They oughtta go out and get a (bleeping) job and find out what it's like to go out and earn a (bleeping) living. Eighty-five percent of the (bleeping) world is working. The other 15 come out here. A (bleeping) playground for the (bleepers). Rip them (bleepers)! Rip them (bleeping) (bleepers) like the (bleeping) players!"
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-080423-lee-elia-apologize-rant-tirade,1,5225738.story
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As far as "a guy in my section..." stories, just avoid the upper deck or you'll always get a few. Miller Park's high "affordability" rating just caters to letting trash in the upper deck so they can get the extra revenue and breaking attendance records. If I found out I could only get a ticket in the 400 level, I think I would just stay in the parking lot and listen to Uecker or go home and watch it on tv.
See now here is the arrogance I can't stand. Try to get your information correct before opening your mouth and jamming that cub paw in there so far. The 300 and 400 levels are packed with season ticket holders who have paid close to $2000.00 for their tickets because they have normal jobs and can't afford the tens of thousands it would cost to be a season ticket holder on the field level.
Here's a thought - if the wave bothers you THAT MUCH, then stay the hell out of our ballpark. I'm tired of it, I don't care for the wave either, as I'm usually the one trying to watch the game, but it's part of the parks history so it's not going away... and trust me, a bunch of cub fans complaining that it's "annoying them" is certainly not going to cause it to stop.
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actually... both cubs fans and brewers fans have complained about the wave...
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See now here is the arrogance I can't stand. Try to get your information correct before opening your mouth and jamming that cub paw in there so far. The 300 and 400 levels are packed with season ticket holders who have paid close to $2000.00 for their tickets because they have normal jobs and can't afford the tens of thousands it would cost to be a season ticket holder on the field level.
Here's a thought - if the wave bothers you THAT MUCH, then stay the hell out of our ballpark. I'm tired of it, I don't care for the wave either, as I'm usually the one trying to watch the game, but it's part of the parks history so it's not going away... and trust me, a bunch of cub fans complaining that it's "annoying them" is certainly not going to cause it to stop.
Ummm...hate to say it, but I'm a Brewers fan. Get your information correct before assuming things. I've been a Brewers fan all my life; a Cubs fan would never sit in the parking lot and listen to Uecker! It's just that every time I sit in the 400 level I'm next to a seat with vomit on it, sitting next to people being ignorant enough to light up a cigarette, intoxicated idiots who won't sit, intoxicated idiots who attempt to talk to me or touch me but are too drunk to make a sentence and end up falling on me, numerous fat chicks blocking my view while attempting to dance, and intoxicated idiots in their upper 20's who move down to sit by high school aged girls and harass them until they get up and leave. In the other levels, I've never had any of these problems, just the 400 level. Maybe there are season ticket holders up there, but either they have a high tolerance for the above crap, don't really watch the game, or actualy instigate some of it. But I've experienced all of the above things, some more than once, and that is why I'm done getting duped into sitting up there when I feel like watching a game and not trailer park antics. I'd get a couple of ten packs in the other levels and enjoy the games before suffering through a whole season up there.
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actually... both cubs fans and brewers fans have complained about the wave...
I agree - like I said I also am not a fan of the wave. But why bother wasting time complaining about it - it's not going to stop and calling the fans names because they participate in it isn't the answer.
As for making digs on the park for it's "affordability" - when did it ever become a bad thing to be able to provide residents with affordable tickets? How else does a young family of four or more afford to go to a game. Games shouldn't only be for the people who can afford to pay through the teeth to go. I can't figure out why that makes Miller Park a "Bad" place in your eyes. Honestly I tried this week to get tickets to a Red Sox game in July and found that I'd have to pay $75.00 for Standing room only. Sorry but I'll take Miller Park and their annoying wave over that any day. And like I said before, if you're not okay with that, then just remember, no one is forcing you to be there.
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The view up there is fine for the most part, and it's great that young people and families can go to the game. But I would rather pay $10 than $7 to have an usher up there because too many people seem to need babysitting. And I'd certainly be willing to give my teenage daughter a couple extra bucks so she could go to a game with a friend without having some drunken pedophile creeping her out and making her want to leave. I'd also like to not find vomit in the seat next to mine upon arriving at the game. These are simple services, and if it cuts slightly into the "affordability" to make this one level like a ballpark and not a zoo, so be it. But if a Cubs fan sits in the upper level and says Brewers fans don't watch the game, it's kind of sad that I have to feel the need to be telling them that they sat in the wrong place and to try again.
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The view up there is fine for the most part, and it's great that young people and families can go to the game. But I would rather pay $10 than $7 to have an usher up there because too many people seem to need babysitting. And I'd certainly be willing to give my teenage daughter a couple extra bucks so she could go to a game with a friend without having some drunken pedophile creeping her out and making her want to leave. I'd also like to not find vomit in the seat next to mine upon arriving at the game. These are simple services, and if it cuts slightly into the "affordability" to make this one level like a ballpark and not a zoo, so be it. But if a Cubs fan sits in the upper level and says Brewers fans don't watch the game, it's kind of sad that I have to feel the need to be telling them that they sat in the wrong place and to try again.
Ever sat in the bleachers at Wrigley? People in glass houses... (not directed at you chapman, but at the Cubs fans who complain about Brewers fans not paying attention to the game).
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I was in the cheap seats at Wrigley tonight. Worst I have ever seen fans at a baseball game. And I'm talking about Brewer fans. Unprovoked verbal abuse, random vulgar insults, spilling beer all over, humping the railing, etc. There was a mom literally covering her daughter's eyes and ears at times. In all the games I've been to at Miller, never seen fans act as poorly as they did. I think sometimes you just get bad luck. Fortunately, the cold kept some fans away tonight so I was able to move down away from them.
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Ever sat in the bleachers at Wrigley? People in glass houses... (not directed at you chapman, but at the Cubs fans who complain about Brewers fans not paying attention to the game).
I've sat in the bleachers almost exclusively, and 85% of the people in the bleachers have a higher baseball IQ and are watching the game than any Brewer fan I've met.
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I've sat in the bleachers almost exclusively, and 85% of the people in the bleachers have a higher baseball IQ and are watching the game than any Brewer fan I've met.
73% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
Being a former drunken young professional from Lakeview, I can tell you that 95% of the fans in the bleachers are young professionals there to enjoy some fine weather and some day drinking. The Cubbies are secondary to being at one of the hot social events in town.
I mean, I even temporarily converted to being a Cubbies fan for a short while in order to become more homogeneous with the rest of the drunken young socialites :)
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I was in the cheap seats at Wrigley tonight. Worst I have ever seen fans at a baseball game. And I'm talking about Brewer fans. Unprovoked verbal abuse, random vulgar insults, spilling beer all over, humping the railing, etc. There was a mom literally covering her daughter's eyes and ears at times. In all the games I've been to at Miller, never seen fans act as poorly as they did. I think sometimes you just get bad luck. Fortunately, the cold kept some fans away tonight so I was able to move down away from them.
I was at the game last night as well and I could have sworn you were talking about the Cubs fans around me. My buddy from college who I went with stated "just more idiot ass clown Cubs fans." Face it, both teams have fans that are assclowns.
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I completely disagree. Have you really been in the bleacher more than just a Friday afternoon game? Or sat remotely close to the wall?
Nowhere else have I been able to start a sabermetrics vs. scouting conversation with the unknown guy next to me, and let it grow into 10 people in the section all adding in their thoughts.
If you try that at Miller Park, you'll get interrupted by a conversation over Jordy Nelson or Brian Brohm. Or flat out being told Chicago sucks from the 350 pounder two rows behind you.
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we get it... Brewers fans think Cub fans are to blame, and vice versa...
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As for making digs on the park for it's "affordability" - when did it ever become a bad thing to be able to provide residents with affordable tickets? Honestly I tried this week to get tickets to a Red Sox game in July and found that I'd have to pay $75.00 for Standing room only.
Don't ever post of this thread complaining about how the Cubs buy players.
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I completely disagree. Have you really been in the bleacher more than just a Friday afternoon game? Or sat remotely close to the wall?
Nowhere else have I been able to start a sabermetrics vs. scouting conversation with the unknown guy next to me, and let it grow into 10 people in the section all adding in their thoughts.
If you try that at Miller Park, you'll get interrupted by a conversation over Jordy Nelson or Brian Brohm. Or flat out being told Chicago sucks from the 350 pounder two rows behind you.
if you guys are so smart... wouldn't you have been smart enough to jump off the bandwagon 85 years ago??
as someone else stated...
you will never see a Cubs World Series victory
your children will never see a Cubs World Series victory
your children's children will never see a Cubs World Series victory....
doesn't it suck to have such expectations every year to be crushed once again?
granted the Brewers haven't had much success, but besides the last few years, I didn't have much expectations in them.
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if you guys are so smart... wouldn't you have been smart enough to jump off the bandwagon 85 years ago??
as someone else stated...
you will never see a Cubs World Series victory
your children will never see a Cubs World Series victory
your children's children will never see a Cubs World Series victory....
doesn't it suck to have such expectations every year to be crushed once again?
granted the Brewers haven't had much success, but besides the last few years, I didn't have much expectations in them.
Cub fans don't jump off the bandwagon, see unlike Wisconsin we have been able to keep Major League Baseball in Chicago sine 1870. So much, another team from Chicago was formed. We didn't need Papa Selig to bring baseball back to the barren City of Milwaukee.
You want to put a friendly wager the Cubs win before the Brewers? I will, after this platoon leaves you are crap out of luck.
Remember, we have World Series titles, and as soon as we get our next, Cubdom will be larger then ever. I hope you enjoy it when it happens because you will never stop hearing about. Thus, enlarging the giant erection you experience as the Cubs surround the second largest city of the Chicagoland Metropolitan area.
I'd rather have expectations every year, then having absolutely nothing to look forward to. What's the Brewers record after last April?
Brewer fans are always so hostile.
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Remember, we have World Series titles
I love how Cubs fans like to be proud of their World Series titles from the turn of the century as if they experienced them first hand. Probably worse than a Brewers fan boasting about the success of the Milwaukee Braves. Might even be as bad as Packer fans boasting about all the championships that they won when there were like 4 teams.
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I love how Cubs fans like to be proud of their World Series titles from the turn of the century as if they experienced them first hand. Probably worse than a Brewers fan boasting about the success of the Milwaukee Braves. Might even be as bad as Packer fans boasting about all the championships that they won when there were like 4 teams.
It's nothing special, but it's more than the Brewers.
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Cub fans don't jump off the bandwagon, see unlike Wisconsin we have been able to keep Major League Baseball in Chicago sine 1870. So much, another team from Chicago was formed. We didn't need Papa Selig to bring baseball back to the barren City of Milwaukee.
You want to put a friendly wager the Cubs win before the Brewers? I will, after this platoon leaves you are crap out of luck.
Remember, we have World Series titles, and as soon as we get our next, Cubdom will be larger then ever. I hope you enjoy it when it happens because you will never stop hearing about. Thus, enlarging the giant erection you experience as the Cubs surround the second largest city of the Chicagoland Metropolitan area.
I'd rather have expectations every year, then having absolutely nothing to look forward to. What's the Brewers record after last April?
Brewer fans are always so hostile.
Cubs fans aren't bandwagon? Seriously, until about 15-20 years ago when some marketing genius started making Wrigley a party place no cared about the Cubs. They would get say 8,000 to a game.
So those drunk chicks drinking wine at that game last night were really solid baseball fans? Come on. Pull your head out of your ass and get a taste of reality.
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It's nothing special, but it's more than the Brewers.
That's your first problem, you worry about the Brewers when you should really be scared of the actual divisions that will produce the WS champ this year...
NL Central, please, awful teams.
/Brewer fan
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Remember, we have World Series titles, and as soon as we get our next, Cubdom will be larger then ever. I hope you enjoy it when it happens because you will never stop hearing about.
god I hope this never happens!
to add fuel to this fire, here is a link to sports illustrated. they did a rank of mlb stadiums.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/specials/fansurvey/2008/index.html?eref=T1 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/specials/fansurvey/2008/index.html?eref=T1)
i love being a cards fan! number 1 in iq and hospitality
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Cubs fans aren't bandwagon? Seriously, until about 15-20 years ago when some marketing genius started making Wrigley a party place no cared about the Cubs. They would get say 8,000 to a game.
Actually, the Cubs fan base blossomed starting in 1984 when attendance went up a whopping 30% year to year. This is remarkably similar to what happened in Boston in 1967, when the Impossible Dream Season awakened a slumbering fan base (though the Sox attendance surge was more pronounced).
Since 1984 the Cubs have drawn very well, generally in-line with overall baseball attendance increases. From 1972-1983, the Cubs only averaged 20K fans per game once (1979) and have not averaged 8K since the late 60s.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/attend.shtml
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Cubs fans aren't bandwagon? Seriously, until about 15-20 years ago when some marketing genius started making Wrigley a party place no cared about the Cubs. They would get say 8,000 to a game.
So those drunk chicks drinking wine at that game last night were really solid baseball fans? Come on. Pull your head out of your ass and get a taste of reality.
So those kids playing at the Fanzone at Miller Park are really solid baseball fans? At least those drunk chicks had nothing better to do than watch the game.
I don't know what is more stichky, Tom Crean's Marquette Basketball or Brewers Baseball. I heard Bill Schroeder is going for his third prostate exam next week in the parking lot.
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god I hope this never happens!
to add fuel to this fire, here is a link to sports illustrated. they did a rank of mlb stadiums.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/specials/fansurvey/2008/index.html?eref=T1 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/specials/fansurvey/2008/index.html?eref=T1)
i love being a cards fan! number 1 in iq and hospitality
I'll agree my trips to the old Busch were good times. There were you occasion rubbing from the Cardinal fans, but other than a couple of trailer trash folks, St. Louis fans were much more friendly and knowledgeable than Milwaukee citizens.
However, that listing is pretty weak. Any non-casual fan will tell you Fenway and Wrigley are the best ballparks to see a game. The article is clearly geared towards everything but the baseball.
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However, that listing is pretty weak. Any non-casual fan will tell you Fenway and Wrigley are the best ballparks to see a game. The article is clearly geared towards everything but the baseball.
If you read the preface of the results you would have seen that they mentiond that the categories "hurt some of the grand old ball parks". But that is the way that baseball is becoming. Stadiums need more bells and whistles, more bright lights, to bring in fans and nonfans alike.
I dont quite understand why you think it is geared around everything but baseball. The article was about the stadium and everything that makes up your visit to that stadium for a game. If they were to mention baseball (which they did with 'team quality'), the survey would have lost its intended purpose and its comment board would look just like this whole thread.
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I was at the game last night as well and I could have sworn you were talking about the Cubs fans around me. My buddy from college who I went with stated "just more idiot ass clown Cubs fans." Face it, both teams have fans that are assclowns.
That was my point. I don't think you can make any judgment for either team's fans. You're going to have great ones, good ones, decent, awful, and those who could care less about the actual game. It just depends on who you end up around.
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Brewer fans are always so hostile.
Wow.
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Honestly, all of this is worthless. The only thing that this pissing match continues to prove to me is that people have gotten away from a simple love of the game. I am a huge Brewers fan, and I don't feel a need to be hostile toward the Cubs. I think it's great that the Brew Crew and the Cubbies are both playing great baseball and giving us a show by making the NL Central a real fight this year. It's great! Why can't we just relax and be thankful that we are following a real baseball storyline. There's nothing better than a throw-down division race that lasts the entire year, and that looks like what it's going to be.
I think the only thing that bothers me about Cubs fans is that they have forgotten their love for the game. They live and die by the Cubbies' success, and can't just chill and enjoy the game for its intrinsic value. I have seen this start to settle in with Brewer fans, too, since the bandwagon began rolling these last couple of years.
I've watched the Brewers and been a fan through the dark ages. I love just watching them compete and have a chance, and I think Cubs and Brewers fans alike should take a hint. Who cares about feeling like the "better franchise?"
The diamond is supposed to be the great equalizer. Out there, it doesn't matter which franchise has a better history or better fan base or better looking ball park... It's about good old-fashioned ball playing... and about enjoying the world's most tradition-rich and purest sports. Too many people forget to kick back and just enjoy.
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That's your first problem, you worry about the Brewers when you should really be scared of the actual divisions that will produce the WS champ this year...
NL Central, please, awful teams.
/Brewer fan
When the cardinals won, did anyone think the WS champs would have come out of the central
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When the cardinals won, did anyone think the WS champs would have come out of the central
Good point, but until it's a feared division the only thing that garners SI covers is if Fukodome is going to help the Cubs break the streak.
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I was at the game last night and it was astonishing that so many "great" baseball fans left Wrigley after the 7th inning, even though the Cubs were down by just two at that point. By the middle of the 8th, I would estimate Wrigley was about 40% full.
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Good point, but until it's a feared division the only thing that garners SI covers is if Fukodome is going to help the Cubs break the streak.
Come on, everybody knows the only thing that garners SI covers (outside of championships) is a red "B" or white, interlocking "NY" on your cap.
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Come on, everybody knows the only thing that garners SI covers (outside of championships) is a red "B" or white, interlocking "NY" on your cap.
Also true, just wait for the new cover...
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I was at the game last night and it was astonishing that so many "great" baseball fans left Wrigley after the 7th inning, even though the Cubs were down by just two at that point. By the middle of the 8th, I would estimate Wrigley was about 40% full.
To be fair, it was incredibly cold.
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I'll agree my trips to the old Busch were good times. There were you occasion rubbing from the Cardinal fans, but other than a couple of trailer trash folks, St. Louis fans were much more friendly and knowledgeable than Milwaukee citizens.
However, that listing is pretty weak. Any non-casual fan will tell you Fenway and Wrigley are the best ballparks to see a game. The article is clearly geared towards everything but the baseball.
I have to jump in here (this has nothing to do with me being a White Sox fan). As someone who has seen games in over half the current MLB parks, I have to say Wrigley and Fenway are "cool" places to see a game, but are probably two of the six worst ballparks in baseball to sit, see, and enjoy a game. From a pure comfort standpoint, they are easily the two worst. I don't weigh three bills, but if you're a Red Sox fan and weigh that much, there is absolutely no way you can sit in Fenway. Wrigley and Fenway's charm factor (rightfully) seduces many people, but their age/locations are their downfall.
I'm a non-casual fan, and will tell you that while AT&T Park in Frisco is my favorite to go to, there is no better park for a fan to watch a game at than PNC Park.
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Any non-casual fan will tell you Fenway and Wrigley are the best ballparks to see a game. The article is clearly geared towards everything but the baseball.
The difference between Fenway and Wrigley...
Although Fenway has been shored up and renovated over recent years, lavished with millions of dollars in improvements and polished like a fine jewel, Wrigley has undergone the stadium equivalent of a patch job.
Sure, they've added seats and luxury boxes - upping capacity to 41,160 - repaired concrete and replaced the entire field.
But the main grandstand needs more than another coat of paint.
We're talking a major renovation.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=745330 (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=745330)
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ESPN is showing why I despise the Cubs/Yanks/Red Sox so much....
so tonight on ESPN it is Brewers vs Cubs, but unless I was a Brewers fan, I would have no clue. They have talked about Zambrano, Soriano(he's not even playing), Derrek Lee, Fukodome, and Dempster.... I think the only Brewer they have mentioned is Cameron...
they were talking about how the Cubs are winning the division, which is true, but by 1 game, and the Brewers are 3-1 vs the Cubs this year, but there is no mention of it....
The Brewers have players that will draw the interest of young fans, especially young black fans, which they are having big problems with (look at how many black players there are)... on a team where you have Prince Fielder, possibly the next poster-child for black baseball players, Bill Hall, Rickie Weeks and Mike Cameron all on a starting roster, that is a substantial amount of black players on a team, but that is not why you should talk about the Brewers
you should talk about the Brewers due to being an equal un-bias station... when you have 1 hour pre-game, and about 30 minutes for the game, why spend 25 on the Cubs and 5 on the Brewers... Brewers won last night, and won the other series this year against the Cubs... both series of which have been in Wrigley... give us some... seems like Cubs are the Badgers to the Brewers being Marquette, although they are better, they get no love.
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As for tonight, this is ugly. 6-0 after the first? Yikes...
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Yeah.
A ONE-HITTER through three.
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Looks like last night was the blind squirrel who finds a nut every once in a while with 17 hits!
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Looks like last night was the blind squirrel who finds a nut every once in a while with 17 hits!
we still lead the series 4-2
and marqptm, I think it was you that made fun of Brewer fans for wearing crowns for Prince.... well how dumb are the headbands for Fukodome... whats the difference? Oh since Cub fans wear them its legit?
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we still lead the series 4-2
Thats fine, win the battle. When you lose the war, let me know!
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we still lead the series 4-2
and marqptm, I think it was you that made fun of Brewer fans for wearing crowns for Prince.... well how dumb are the headbands for Fukodome... whats the difference? Oh since Cub fans wear them its legit?
Wrong it was me!
A Brewer fan made fun of Cubs fans for wearing floppy hats and I just was pointing out that fans of both teams wear dumb things on their heads.
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The difference between Fenway and Wrigley...
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=745330 (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=745330)
You do realize that the Bleachers were part one of the Wrigley reconstruction right? If it weren't for the future owners situation, renovations were slated to start rebuilding the grandstands in 2010.
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I do. Doesn't change the fact that the place needs to be gutted. Face it. If you weren't a Cubs fan, you'd agree with everyone else that it's a dump. Historic, sure. But a total dump of a stadium.
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I do. Doesn't change the fact that the place needs to be gutted. Face it. If you weren't a Cubs fan, you'd agree with everyone else that it's a dump. Historic, sure. But a total dump of a stadium.
It's funny, high rollers like Mark Cuban seem to be fine with it. Today was his second visit!
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I do. Doesn't change the fact that the place needs to be gutted. Face it. If you weren't a Cubs fan, you'd agree with everyone else that it's a dump. Historic, sure. But a total dump of a stadium.
I'd actually call a stadium that is barely 7 years old with a completely busted roof, rusting heavily from the outside, and looks like a dump while traveling North on Miller Park way a dump. Wrigley has held itself well for over 96 years, while Miller Park hasn't over 7 years.
And it does change the fact that it needs to be gutted, because it will be gutted shortly in the future. I guess someone is a little insecure with peeing next to another guy.
I don't think its anywhere near 'dump' status. Chicago Stadium was a dump, County Stadium was a dump, Veterans Stadium was a dump, Wrigley is nowhere 'dump' status.
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Please explain the "completely busted roof" comment. The last time I remembered the roof opens, closes, and allows the Brewers to play in any weather. Don't tell me you would prefer to sit out in the rain on a 40 degree day hoping the game continues. That's just plain dumb.
And to compare the outside "looks" of Miller Park to Wrigley is moronic. Most fans like to watch the game from inside the stadium.
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(http://www.s152539087.onlinehome.us/myspace/cubssuck/wrigleygay.jpg)
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Please explain the "completely busted roof" comment. The last time I remembered the roof opens, closes, and allows the Brewers to play in any weather. Don't tell me you would prefer to sit out in the rain on a 40 degree day hoping the game continues. That's just plain dumb.
And to compare the outside "looks" of Miller Park to Wrigley is moronic. Most fans like to watch the game from inside the stadium.
Busted Roof:
1.) Takes just over twenty minutes to close/open.
2.) Have you ever watched Brewers Live! when the roof is closing? It's louder than standing on Runway 19 Left at Mitchell Airport, who by the way copyrighted the slogan "Chicago's Third Airport."
3.) Frequent Leakage Issues.
4.) Select any of these problems that were never rectified because the Contractor released the retainer on the project prior to a final inspection. http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=36057
It does only matter what happens from the inside, but as a Civil Engineer, I view stadiums as landmarks, and they should look accordingly.
I'm enjoy rain delays, they extend the experience of going to a game. I'll take them any day over sitting inside while it's a nice 60 degrees outside, but too cold for the roof to be open. Roofed stadiums are dying... sorry Milwaukee...
Nice picture, how original!
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Please explain the "completely busted roof" comment. The last time I remembered the roof opens, closes, and allows the Brewers to play in any weather. Don't tell me you would prefer to sit out in the rain on a 40 degree day hoping the game continues. That's just plain dumb.
Tell that to the 41,000 + that went and stayed on opening day. Tell that to those fans that watched the past 2 games in sub par weather. Apparently cubs fans aren't to worried about the conditions.
Brewers fans see the roof leaking and need to break out the umbrellas!
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(http://homerderby.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/randall-simon-bats-the-italian.jpg)
scariest moment in brewer history!!!
good thing he didn't go on the DL to join benny!
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Roofed stadiums are dying... sorry Milwaukee...
I agree, the fact that Minnesota didn't put a roof on their stadium, and the weather they will endure in early april agrees with the statement. Other new stadiums including both New York stadiums and the Rays new stadium also support the argument!
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Minnesota's stadium is designed to have the option to add a roof when funds would be accumulated...way to know your facts
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You know you're stretching when you claim you enjoy rain delays. I bet it's like Christmas when you sit through the rainout and the game gets postponed.
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You know you're stretching when you claim you enjoy rain delays. I bet it's like Christmas when you sit through the rainout and the game gets postponed.
Rain Delays are different than postponements. I enjoyed the rain delay at Opening Day. Never rained too hard, saw the new drainage system work, brought nice warm weather, and met some great people.
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Minnesota's stadium is designed to have the option to add a roof when funds would be accumulated...way to know your facts
Hmm... maybe you need to know your facts first:
Will there be a roof?
The Twins-Hennepin County ballpark bill, passed by the 2006 legislature, calls for the construction of an open-air facility.
http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/min/ballpark/new_faq.jsp
Ouch.
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Hmm... maybe you need to know your facts first:
Will there be a roof?
The Twins-Hennepin County ballpark bill, passed by the 2006 legislature, calls for the construction of an open-air facility.
http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/min/ballpark/new_faq.jsp
Ouch.
calls for the construction of an open air facility with the option to add a roof in the future...considering I've spoken with reliable individuals that have first hand knowledge of this, you might want to double check all your facts Strzalka.
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They passed a legislation from preventing the owner from ever adding a roof.
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Rain Delays are different than postponements. I enjoyed the rain delay at Opening Day. Never rained too hard, saw the new drainage system work, brought nice warm weather, and met some great people.
All I know is most people are impatient and many don't want to wait out a rain delay when they have to get up for work the next day. While it's not as nice as seeing a game with the roof open and nice weather, I'm thankful I didn't have to cancel my plans several times when it was pouring out or even when there was a blizzard because there was baseball to be played. Only drawback for me is never getting to have the excitement of a true "day at the ballpark" that comes with having double headers.
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You know who really couldn't handle the 60 degree weather on opening day? The Brewers. They played the field with winter hats over thier baseball hats in the first inning.
Funny how they took them off in the 2nd inning after the bleachers ripped them apart!
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All I know is most people are impatient and many don't want to wait out a rain delay when they have to get up for work the next day. While it's not as nice as seeing a game with the roof open and nice weather, I'm thankful I didn't have to cancel my plans several times when it was pouring out or even when there was a blizzard because there was baseball to be played. Only drawback for me is never getting to have the excitement of a true "day at the ballpark" that comes with having double headers.
That's what is nice about day baseball not only on get away day! There is alot of time to wait it out, make some friends sitting next to you!
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I am surprised no Cub fan called me out in saying the series is 4-2... its actually 3-2 Brewers on the season, but you were all too worried about the dynamics of roofs to notice an obvious error by a Brewer fan, which would show a lack of baseball "intelligence".
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You know who really couldn't handle the 60 degree weather on opening day? The Brewers. They played the field with winter hats over thier baseball hats in the first inning.
Funny how they took them off in the 2nd inning after the bleachers ripped them apart!
Yes, I'm sure our veteran, gold-glove center fielder, reigning Rookie of the Year left fielder, and criminally-underrated right fielder were so concerned with what a bunch of drunken idiots/chicks in heels drinking wine were yelling at him that they removed their stocking caps. Give me a unnatural carnal knowledgeing break.
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It's funny, high rollers like Mark Cuban seem to be fine with it. Today was his second visit!
Wow! He's been there exactly as many times as I have! Don't think for a second that if he bought the team he wouldn't do MAJOR renovations, maybe even (GASP) sell naming rights.
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I am surprised no Cub fan called me out in saying the series is 4-2... its actually 3-2 Brewers on the season, but you were all too worried about the dynamics of roofs to notice an obvious error by a Brewer fan, which would show a lack of baseball "intelligence".
Or most of last night we were all trying to figure out how many more runs that turnbow would give up
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Wow! He's been there exactly as many times as I have! Don't think for a second that if he bought the team he wouldn't do MAJOR renovations, maybe even (GASP) sell naming rights.
Thanks for your money!
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And it does change the fact that it needs to be gutted, because it will be gutted shortly in the future. I guess someone is a little insecure with peeing next to another guy.
I don't think its anywhere near 'dump' status. Chicago Stadium was a dump, County Stadium was a dump, Veterans Stadium was a dump, Wrigley is nowhere 'dump' status.
Thanks for making my point. It's getting gutted because it NEEDS TO BE GUTTED, just as I said.
I don't remember concrete falling on fans' heads at Miller Park, do you?
Things must look awfully distorted through your blue and red glasses...
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Thanks for your money!
And thank YOU for coming to Miller.
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Your welcome, I go to fund another racing sausage, and will keep going until i hear that they are creating another one!
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Yes, I'm sure our veteran, gold-glove center fielder, reigning Rookie of the Year left fielder, and criminally-underrated right fielder were so concerned with what a bunch of drunken idiots/chicks in heels drinking wine were yelling at him that they removed their stocking caps. Give me a fracking break.
Also, if you want to talk about baseball "intelligence" you may want to check your lineup on opening day. Last time I heard, Tony Gwynn Jr. isn't a veteran, nor does he have a gold glove!
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I don't remember concrete falling on fans' heads at Miller Park, do you?
Just water falling on them.
When is the last time concrete fell at Wrigley? Oh yeah they took care of that a long time ago. Come up with something new Brewer fans.
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/specials/fansurvey/2008/index.html
Miller Park #2
Wrigley Field #15
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Congrats, you just lost to progressive field...I mean Jacobs field!
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I am surprised no Cub fan called me out in saying the series is 4-2... its actually 3-2 Brewers on the season, but you were all too worried about the dynamics of roofs to notice an obvious error by a Brewer fan, which would show a lack of baseball "intelligence".
It was 3-1 at the time. Rest assured, I caught it, but there's not a lot of difference between 3-1 and 4-2. Unlike, say, the difference between 1st place and 3rd place.
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Just water falling on them.
When is the last time concrete fell at Wrigley? Oh yeah they took care of that a long time ago. Come up with something new Brewer fans.
Why? What else do we need? Your stadium is FALLING APART. By "took care of that", is this what you mean?
"The first would be life, health, safety construction. You've got nets holding concrete, stuff like that. We want to make sure the infrastructure is strong.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=745330 (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=745330)
I seem to remember another place where the stadium was literally falling apart. Remember the Kingdome? Remember what happened to it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn0qqc3EWhE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zn0qqc3EWhE)
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Also, if you want to talk about baseball "intelligence" you may want to check your lineup on opening day. Last time I heard, Tony Gwynn Jr. isn't a veteran, nor does he have a gold glove!
Last time I heard, Mike Cameron, an 11 year veteran and 3-time Gold Glove winner, was back starting in center. If you want to call someone out, you should prolly have your facts straight. Did you even watch the last 2 games? If you did I would think you would know Cameron was back, especially after the big night he had Tuesday.
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Also, if you want to talk about baseball "intelligence" you may want to check your lineup on opening day. Last time I heard, Tony Gwynn Jr. isn't a veteran, nor does he have a gold glove!
Missed that part, but I'm pretty sure Gwynn wasn't too concerned with the idiots behind him either.
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Last time I heard, Mike Cameron, an 11 year veteran and 3-time Gold Glove winner, was back starting in center. If you want to call someone out, you should prolly have your facts straight. Did you even watch the last 2 games? If you did I would think you would know Cameron was back, especially after the big night he had Tuesday.
If your going to jump into the convo know what your talking about. Even IAMMARQUETTE admitted he didn't read that part. Maybe you should go back and read what i said!
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Class!!! Anyone just see food/beer thrown from the stands on the brewers left fielder?
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Class!!! Anyone just see food/beer thrown from the stands on the brewers left fielder?
Nope, didn't see it. Just another benefit of watching WGN (besides not having to listen to Bill or Dave Nelson). I did however see Prince get owned by Soto at the plate.
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Class!!! Anyone just see food/beer thrown from the stands on the brewers left fielder?
Been watching the game, can't say that I did
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Been watching the game, can't say that I did
Thrown right at Braun. Putting the ASS in CLASS.
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Didn't see it???? They showed the replay about 10 times on FSN...it was the play at the plate...
Guess it shows the media bias...
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Didn't see it???? They showed the replay about 10 times on FSN...it was the play at the plate...
Guess it shows the media bias...
By play at the plate do you mean when Kosuke was called out? (He was clearly safe but that's a different matter.) I'm guessing WGN didn't capture it on tape, in which case there is no bias. But I will agree that there is obviously no place for anything like that in the game.
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It's funny, they have showed the Marmol K's about 10 times! Your right, I guess WGN does show a bias! They show baseball!!! BADDDDD WGN!
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If your going to jump into the convo know what your talking about. Even IAMMARQUETTE admitted he didn't read that part. Maybe you should go back and read what i said!
My bad Rob, I should have read closer.
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By play at the plate do you mean when Kosuke was called out? (He was clearly safe but that's a different matter.) I'm guessing WGN didn't capture it on tape, in which case there is no bias. But I will agree that there is obviously no place for anything like that in the game.
Uecker would agree with you. (Thanks MLB.com for letting me listen to the Brewers radio broadcast while I'm stuck in the library here in Chicago.)
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I am surprised no Cub fan called me out in saying the series is 4-2... its actually 3-2 Brewers on the season, but you were all too worried about the dynamics of roofs to notice an obvious error by a Brewer fan, which would show a lack of baseball "intelligence".
Now it's 4-2 :)
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yup, stuff thrown at Braun out in left and after Soriano went 0-4 he was getting booed as he went back to the dugout. really classy Chi-town. Guy just gets back, makes decent contact on a couple ab's and gets booed. Well done you clASSy folks...
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Now it's 4-2 :)
Though I'm sure some Cubs fans will tell us the "moral victory" from the beatdown on Wednesday is actually more important than winning the series.
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Thanks for making my point. It's getting gutted because it NEEDS TO BE GUTTED, just as I said.
I don't remember concrete falling on fans' heads at Miller Park, do you?
Things must look awfully distorted through your blue and red glasses...
I don't think anyone disagrees it needs to be gutted, it really could use it. Not necessary.
I do remember cranes falling at Miller Park...too soon?
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crane, singular. and y bring up a freak accident where the crane collapsed under a third of the weight it was made to lift that resulted in 3 fatalities?? Does it make you happy to be such a dick so often??
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It really wasn't a freak accident... I had an OSHA class on it already... 40 MPH wind gusts and pressure from the Owners to complete the lift caused it.
Why bring up falling concrete?
One incident was negligence. One was aging concrete.
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Though I'm sure some Cubs fans will tell us the "moral victory" from the beatdown on Wednesday is actually more important than winning the series.
Hey, a win is a win. I'll give it to the brewers for not giving up, seems to be the M-O of the season for them. No matter what happens they aren't afraid to take it to the last out. Congrats on the come from behind win. A win like this can catapult a team for a long stretch (See ARam v Brewers last June!). Good luck in Houston brewer fans!
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I don't think anyone disagrees it needs to be gutted, it really could use it. Not necessary.
I do remember cranes falling at Miller Park...too soon?
I doubt the Cubs' ownership (whoever that happens to be/will be) would undertake a ballpark (unintentional pun, sorry) half-billion dollar renovation if it wasn't necessary.
As for your second comment, a construction accident is not quite the same as a stadium falling apart around spectators at a baseball game. Come on, ptm, stay on topic!
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I doubt the Cubs' ownership (whoever that happens to be/will be) would undertake a ballpark (unintentional pun, sorry) half-billion dollar renovation if it wasn't necessary.
As for your second comment, a construction accident is not quite the same as a stadium falling apart around spectators at a baseball game. Come on, ptm, stay on topic!
If it was necessary, it would be happening. Necessary, "Absolutely essential", if it was absolutely essential, Wrigley wouldn't be playable until it was reconstructed. So is it necessary?
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I do remember cranes falling at Miller Park...too soon?
Yeah, too soon and not even comparable.
Kind of a dick move to bring that up.
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I'm sorry, but after watching the Cubs fans throw full cups of beer a Ryan Braun in left field, I have lost all respect for anyone who is a fan of the Cubs.
As far as I'm concerned, all Cubs fans are the most classless, disrespectful, moronic dicks in all of baseball. I feel bad for every child I see wearing a Cubs hat or t-shirt.
I have sat next to Cardinals, White Sox, and Twins fans on numerous occasions at Miller park. I would take any of them over any Cubs fan I have ever met. You can actually have a real baseball conversation with them.
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If it was necessary, it would be happening. Necessary, "Absolutely essential", if it was absolutely essential, Wrigley wouldn't be playable until it was reconstructed. So is it necessary?
Ah, technicalities... You're probably one of those people that thinks hate speech is protected under the first amendment (freedom of speech!) or that people have a "right" to bear arms (2nd amendment). Something about the spirit of the law vs. the letter....
DISCLAIMER: Not intended to spark political debate.
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I'm sorry, but after watching the Cubs fans throw full cups of beer a Ryan Braun in left field, I have lost all respect for anyone who is a fan of the Cubs.
As far as I'm concerned, all Cubs fans are the most classless, disrespectful, moronic dicks in all of baseball. I feel bad for every child I see wearing a Cubs hat or t-shirt.
I have sat next to Cardinals, White Sox, and Twins fans on numerous occasions at Miller park. I would take any of them over any Cubs fan I have ever met. You can actually have a real baseball conversation with them.
Hmm good to know. On a related note, I have lost all respect for those who make sweeping generalizations of groups of people. Also on that list, people who throw things at players and people who waste entire beers they paid good money for.
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Hmm good to know. On a related note, I have lost all respect for those who make sweeping generalizations of groups of people. Also on that list, people who throw things at players and people who waste entire beers they paid good money for.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky9Kso9q_Ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky9Kso9q_Ws)
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nice chili...that is great!!
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that youtube clip is fan effin tastic
Oh and Cubs fans...scoreboard
Thanks Kerry!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky9Kso9q_Ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky9Kso9q_Ws)
Don't see how that changes my point. So there are the 1 or 2 guys (I'm guessing, I haven't seen it) who threw beer at Braun, and the 10 or so people who threw balls on the field--minus the first one or two because of the tradition. And obviously there are more dbag Cubs fan besides these. Still a tiny minority of total Cubs fans.
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http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2008/5/1/471257/oops
Read that Brewer fans, that is how most Cub fans feel, in my opinion.
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Hey Brewer fans. Standings.
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Hey Brewer fans. Standings.
It's May 1. With the weak schedule the Cubs have played and only being up 1/2 a game doesn't seem like something to applauding.
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http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2008/5/1/471257/oops
Read that Brewer fans, that is how most Cub fans feel, in my opinion.
Nice blog. If I were a Cubs fan I might add it to my regular reading.
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Hey Brewer fans. Standings.
On May 1? Really? As my fellow Brewer fans and I can attest, sitting atop the standings at this point (or in July, for that matter) doesn't mean much.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky9Kso9q_Ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky9Kso9q_Ws)
Bookmarked!
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25 years later, and it still applies.
Lee Elia will always be my favorite Cubs manager of all time. Second on the list is of course Dusty Baker.
"The (bleepers) don't even work. That's why they're out at the (bleeping) game. They oughtta go out and get a (bleeping) job and find out what it's like to go out and earn a (bleeping) living. Eighty-five percent of the (bleeping) world is working. The other 15 come out here. A (bleeping) playground for the (bleepers). Rip them (bleepers)! Rip them (bleeping) (bleepers) like the (bleeping) players!"
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-080423-lee-elia-apologize-rant-tirade,1,5225738.story
Audio of the aforementioned rant. NOT SAFE FOR WORK (or just about anywhere else, for that matter).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv23pqH9iG0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv23pqH9iG0&feature=related)
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Class!!! Anyone just see food/beer thrown from the stands on the brewers left fielder?
Anyone know what inning this was? I want to get on mlb.com and see if i can find it.
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Anyone know what inning this was? I want to get on mlb.com and see if i can find it.
Chances are if you go to mlb.com it will be the WGN broadcast which I was watching so you wouldn't see it there. I would look for the FSN replay today
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Chances are if you go to mlb.com it will be the WGN broadcast which I was watching so you wouldn't see it there. I would look for the FSN replay today
Yeah Mlb only has the WGN feed. I am assuming that WGN didnt show it at all. If someone sees the brewers replay today try to put this online. Brewers fans... here is your chance to capture to clASSiness of the cubs fans.
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This hurts....
http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/05/02/gallardo-has-torn-acl.aspx (http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/05/02/gallardo-has-torn-acl.aspx)
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This hurts....
http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/05/02/gallardo-has-torn-acl.aspx (http://blogs.jsonline.com/brewers/archive/2008/05/02/gallardo-has-torn-acl.aspx)
Thanks Ned Yost and the Brewers training staff for putting Yi back in. Once Sheets hits the DL again... money, pure money.
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Thanks Ned Yost and the Brewers training staff for putting Yi back in. Once Sheets hits the DL again... money, pure money.
Once you tear an ACL, it's torn. You're not going to do any more damage to it by playing. Athletes with torn ACLs don't miss time because they fear doing further damage, they miss time because they have absolutely no stability in the knee. Gallardo's injury happened during the play near first base. It had nothing to do with his returning to the mound afterwards.
Besides, Yi is a Buck. Yo is a Brewer. Get your Milwaukee sports straight. Maybe that way we can have some intelligent discussion (not that I'd expect that from a Cubs fan).
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Below the blog on the injury, it was "shocking" to see these comments from the clASSy, intelligent Brewer fans:
"Exactly what kind of idiot slides into first base? Everyone knows you should run though the bag. I heard it on the radio yesterday and I said the next time that Lee came to bat they should have threw at him for pay back.
The Brewers better throw at someone on the Cubs the next time they play."
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"You've got to be kidding me...this totally ruined my day.
I know it wouldn't be the right thing to do, but right now all I want is to play the Cubs again so we can throw a fastball at someone's head. It sure would make me feel better about things right now..."
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"I don't understand why everyone is mad at the trainer and Ned Yost and not pissed at Reed Johnson...Reed Johnson should be booed constantly at Miller park, through his entire AB's and non-stop heckled in the outfield...time to start your research pro-hecklers!
I tore my ACL and later Miniscus and the the ACL tear is painless and can be rehabed. He should also be able to wear an active knee brace - running backs in the NFL have played for years with torn ACLS using those...there's not a lot of cutting in baseball which is true, but for a pitcher to be constantly landing on your leg after every pitch and gaining momentum from your legs, your knee is incredibly important. My guess is they knew what happened right away and Gallardo said if my seasons over at least let me finish this inning...This is a terrible thing to have happened to one of baseballs best rising stars and one of baseballs historical duds and cub to boot is responsible...man o man I hate the cubs!!!!! "
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"Reed Johnson slid into firstbase, that's what he did wrong...that's the coward move...talk to anyone in baseball and ask them there thoughts about sliding into firstbase...it doesn't get you there quicker and you increase the chances of injury of yourself or another player...so yes he did do something wrong...gopher, stay in minnesota or your northside transplat and leave the posting to true blue brewers fans! "
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"I will never give a cub the benefit of the doubt I don't care if he slid because prince was going to deck him! "
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"Reed Johnson sucks."
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I know its only the 2nd inning bur go cards go!
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Below the blog on the injury, it was "shocking" to see these comments from the clASSy, intelligent Brewer fans:
"Exactly what kind of idiot slides into first base? Everyone knows you should run though the bag. I heard it on the radio yesterday and I said the next time that Lee came to bat they should have threw at him for pay back.
The Brewers better throw at someone on the Cubs the next time they play."
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"You've got to be kidding me...this totally ruined my day.
I know it wouldn't be the right thing to do, but right now all I want is to play the Cubs again so we can throw a fastball at someone's head. It sure would make me feel better about things right now..."
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"I don't understand why everyone is mad at the trainer and Ned Yost and not pissed at Reed Johnson...Reed Johnson should be booed constantly at Miller park, through his entire AB's and non-stop heckled in the outfield...time to start your research pro-hecklers!
I tore my ACL and later Miniscus and the the ACL tear is painless and can be rehabed. He should also be able to wear an active knee brace - running backs in the NFL have played for years with torn ACLS using those...there's not a lot of cutting in baseball which is true, but for a pitcher to be constantly landing on your leg after every pitch and gaining momentum from your legs, your knee is incredibly important. My guess is they knew what happened right away and Gallardo said if my seasons over at least let me finish this inning...This is a terrible thing to have happened to one of baseballs best rising stars and one of baseballs historical duds and cub to boot is responsible...man o man I hate the cubs!!!!! "
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"Reed Johnson slid into firstbase, that's what he did wrong...that's the coward move...talk to anyone in baseball and ask them there thoughts about sliding into firstbase...it doesn't get you there quicker and you increase the chances of injury of yourself or another player...so yes he did do something wrong...gopher, stay in minnesota or your northside transplat and leave the posting to true blue brewers fans! "
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"I will never give a cub the benefit of the doubt I don't care if he slid because prince was going to deck him! "
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"Reed Johnson sucks."
If this is from the JS Blog, most of these guys are Baaajr fans (read: idiots).
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Sliding into first base is just fundamentally poor. Doing it makes Reed Johnson an idiot, but he's not a disgrace to the game d-bag like Shelley Duncan. Throwing at him would be like a team throwing at Rickie Weeks because he hit their baserunner while trying to make the routine throw to first he can never make. You can boo an idiot all you want, but you don't throw at someone unless they're a d-bag.
Some of those responses are normal frustration. But the claim that Gallardo knew right away and asked to go out there is laughable. I've torn my MCL playing football and "went back out there" with no mobility and fell over a couple times. I really doubt I went back out because I wanted a last hurrah to the season when I didn't know it was over until the next day.
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You slide into first if you are avoiding the tag. RJ did this earlier in the week, and it was successful, I was shocked to see that Prince's stomach allowed him to bend over far enough to get the tag on the sliding RJ.
Great game tonight Bilas.
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Besides, Yi is a Buck. Yo is a Brewer. Get your Milwaukee sports straight. Maybe that way we can have some intelligent discussion (not that I'd expect that from a Cubs fan).
Yi, Yo, doesn't matter one is done for the year, one was a terrible draft choice.
No one actually wants to have a discussion, let alone an intelligent one, about the void that is Milwaukee sports.
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This thread is an embarrassment to all baseball fans. Just terrible. I hope I never sit next to any of you; Cubs fans or Brewers fans. Too bad this inane banter has to happen on a Marquette basketball blog. Hopefully, people don't find this thread, it reflects terribly upon our University.
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This thread is an embarrassment to all baseball fans. Just terrible. I hope I never sit next to any of you; Cubs fans or Brewers fans. Too bad this inane banter has to happen on a Marquette basketball blog. Hopefully, people don't find this thread, it reflects terribly upon our University.
It is a pissing match, so it should be terribly blown out of the water. Which clearly has occurred. Overreaction much?
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Too bad this inane banter has to happen on a Marquette basketball blog.
It's also in the superbar where we can have conversations not about basketball!
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With gallardo out, Manny para and Villanueva as starters, looks like it could be a rough go here for the next couple of weeks. Add in an offense that showed signs of run production, only to have it taper off, I can only laugh!
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Yeah... if the Brewers are going to compete at all they need to go get a legit #2 starter. You can't do it with an ace, a #3, and 3 #5 starters.
Sooner rather than later, Doug. Things could be turning ugly soon.
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Yeah... if the Brewers are going to compete at all they need to go get a legit #2 starter. You can't do it with an ace, a #3, and 3 #5 starters.
Sooner rather than later, Doug. Things could be turning ugly soon.
You wouldn't consider Suppan to be a serviceable #2 starter?
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I was at the game on Thursday and Tuesday. Johnson slid to avoid the tag of Fielder, the only time you should slide at first base. He did not slide to take out Gallardo. Gallardo was an idiot, as soon as he saw Fielder turn to try tag Johnson, he should have gotten out of the way. The Brewer fan that was with me agreed. Too many people get injured on those collision plays at first, see Furcal vs. Lee in '06.
And if anything, the Brewers did their best to "take out" Cubs all series. The Pie/ Weeks play at second (probably debateable), Braun taking out Theriot at second on Tuesday night (probably didn't see that on the CSN or FSN replays, but Lou made sure to point it out), and Fielder at home against Soto on Thursday (Lou said it was a clean play).
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You wouldn't consider Suppan to be a serviceable #2 starter?
Not for a contending team, no.
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Not for a contending team, no.
Missed the '06 World Series, did you?
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Missed the '06 World Series, did you?
Maybe, but I think you're looking for the NLCS game against the Mets.
Suppan was 12-7 with a 4.12 ERA, 190 IP, 0 CG in 2006. He's a decent pitcher, perfect guy for the 3/4 role, which is where he was successful in St. Louis.
One great playoff performance and a big contract does not mean a guy is good enough to be near the top of the rotation.
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Maybe, but I think you're looking for the NLCS game against the Mets.
Suppan was 12-7 with a 4.12 ERA, 190 IP, 0 CG in 2006. He's a decent pitcher, perfect guy for the 3/4 role, which is where he was successful in St. Louis.
One great playoff performance and a big contract does not mean a guy is good enough to be near the top of the rotation.
I would add the note that the Cardinals may have been one of the worst teams ever to win a World Series. Suppan gives a team innings, which can't be underrated given the Brewers pitchers' penchant for getting injured.
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Yeah... if the Brewers are going to compete at all they need to go get a legit #2 starter. You can't do it with an ace, a #3, and 3 #5 starters.
Sooner rather than later, Doug. Things could be turning ugly soon.
Does it matter who is pitching when you have a $10 mil guy closing?
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(http://www.teach-nology.com/web_tools/graphic_org/venn_diagrams/middle2.gif)
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(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/Untitled-2.jpg)
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(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/Untitled-2.jpg)
His goggles are fogging up, that must be the problem.
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One great playoff performance and a big contract does not mean a guy is good enough to be near the top of the rotation.
no but being the NLCS MVP and a World Series ring does mean that you get paid a bunch and believed to be a solid pitcher. Also on top of this, the two years prior to the 2006 season werent too shabby either. All signs pointed to a stud who could hold a solid spot near the top of a rotation.
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no but being the NLCS MVP and a World Series ring does mean that you get paid a bunch and believed to be a solid pitcher. Also on top of this, the two years prior to the 2006 season werent too shabby either. All signs pointed to a stud who could hold a solid spot near the top of a rotation.
anyone referring to Jeff Suppan as a stud needs to check out of any baseball discussion
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anyone referring to Jeff Suppan as a stud needs to check out of any baseball discussion
Put your current Brewers skewed vision away and then look at the situation around the Brewers signing Suppan.
Look at his production in 2004. It was a great year for Suppan. The following year he lost only one game more than the '04 campaign, but with a lower ERA. 2006 he receives the NLCS MVP along with a world series ring. Thats a solid pick up for the brewers. If you dont want Suppan, I know St. Louis wouldnt mind having him back.
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Looking at 'Soupys' numbers, he isn't an ace, but he also isn't a bottom feeder. He's a great 3, mediocre 2. I'd take him over Marquis any day of the week. I have no idea why Brewer fans are so low on him. I think the expectations are getting a bit high over at Miller Park.
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Looking at 'Soupys' numbers, he isn't an ace, but he also isn't a bottom feeder. He's a great 3, mediocre 2. I'd take him over Marquis any day of the week. I have no idea why Brewer fans are so low on him. I think the expectations are getting a bit high over at Miller Park.
I'm fine with "Soup." Hell, I'm fine with Parra & Villanueva, as long as they learn how to attack the strike zone. No doubt, however, that the Gallardo injury is a major setback.
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I think the expectations are getting a bit high over at Miller Park.
yeah, I think so.
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I'm a Red Sox fan not a Brewer fan. Suppan is 119-114 in his career with a 4.62 ERA. 5 games over .500 with and over 4 1/2 ERA is not a stud. You cherry picked his best years and at his age you had to know those numbers were not going to improve when you signed him for 4 years. It was not a horrible signing for the Brewers if it was for a couple years- a back of the rotation guy who can still give you some innings. But now they are saddled with this guy two years after this one. No way he's a #2 guy for a good team.
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You cherry picked his best years and at his age you had to know those numbers were not going to improve when you signed him for 4 years.
I dont think that you can really bring his age into the equation. Sure as you get older you lose MPH on the fast ball, but this only directs you to change your pitching patterns and tendencies. Look at Smoltz, Maddux, Johnson, Leiter, Mussina, Wakefield. These are guys that are all still pitching and some of them are still quite dominant.
When a player that has been improving as the years went by as they were in 04-06, no matter their age, you really can expect their numbers to stay strong. Besides, thats why you have a pitching coach. Its his job to recognize a pitchers pratfalls and correct them- introduce them to new pitches that will elongate their career. Its not like Suppan was coming to a team that had no pitching coach. Mike Maddux is a pretty solid Pitching Coach, although he is no Dave Duncan so you cant expect all that much.
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So the Brewers are 83 -86 since ending their hot streak last April.
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So the Brewers are 83 -86 since ending their hot streak last April.
and the Cubs don't have a playoff win since then!
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and the Cubs don't have a playoff win since then!
Funny how the win and loss totals for the Brewers are in the 80's the last time the Brewers sniffed the playoffs.
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A timeline of reasons why the Brewers hadn't gone to the Playoffs since '82
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=3384356&sportCat=mlb
fantastic read, really funny things in there.... my favorite is '94
"Ladies and gentleman, your 1994 Milwaukee Brewers All-Star representative … Ricky Bones!"
however they should come out and do a Chicago Cubs woes since last world series win, although that would end up a novel.
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Funny how the win and loss totals for the Brewers are in the 80's the last time the Brewers sniffed the playoffs.
If I'm reading this correctly, you're likely referring to last season, when the Brewers finished 83-79, and last I checked (can anybody back me up on this?) 79 < 80.
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If I'm reading this correctly, you're likely referring to last season, when the Brewers finished 83-79, and last I checked (can anybody back me up on this?) 79 < 80.
You're right, but I subtracted the great start the Brewers got off to in April (16-9). And then added in this year's record thus far (16-16).
And McCheese: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=cubs/0919&sportCat=mlb
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A timeline of reasons why the Brewers hadn't gone to the Playoffs since '82
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=3384356&sportCat=mlb
fantastic read, really funny things in there.... my favorite is '94
"Ladies and gentleman, your 1994 Milwaukee Brewers All-Star representative … Ricky Bones!"
however they should come out and do a Chicago Cubs woes since last world series win, although that would end up a novel.
ESPN's Page 2 did at the beginning of the season. Don't have the link though.
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Well... I think the only pissing match left is who pissed away more money on Brewers tickets this year.
I'll start the bidding. I have successfully urinated away $325 dollars on two nine packs. More if you include the random games thrown in there.
I think I'm gonna print out that page 2 article when I inevitably need therapy thanks to my baseball team.
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Alright so maybe the Cubs choked in the playoffs. It beats choking in the regular season. You make some serious $$$$ choking in the playoffs from TV contracts, tickets sold, championship t-shirts, hats, etc.
In the end both the Brewers and Cubs choked. The Cubs, however, made some $$$$ while choking.
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This seems about par at Miller Park.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/ModernTube-One-passed-out-Brewers-fan-six-cups?urn=mlb,81501 (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/ModernTube-One-passed-out-Brewers-fan-six-cups?urn=mlb,81501)
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Anyone ever sat in the Miller Lite BeerPen before? how is it?
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Anyone ever sat in the Miller Lite BeerPen before? how is it?
It's cheap for non-marquee games. For games w/the Cubs, Cards etc., the % increase is the largest of the regular seats (no one should ever pay to sit in Bernie's Corner (or is it Bleachers?). If you plan on getting slammed, they are probably the best seats.
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If you plan on getting slammed, they are probably the best seats.
well, al-f'ing-right!. gonna be a good night and bad morning.
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(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/Untitled-2.jpg)
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It's cheap for non-marquee games. For games w/the Cubs, Cards etc., the % increase is the largest of the regular seats (no one should ever pay to sit in Bernie's Corner (or is it Bleachers?). If you plan on getting slammed, they are probably the best seats.
I found out that if you are not a brewers fan and are wearing anything for the away team, right field and especially the beerpeen are not good places to sit. As soon as I sat down friday night in the beerpen, guys two rows behind me start to rip on me. I dont mind words, but then they started to yell out things like cute one and queer, etc. It was only the second inning and i believe the game was still 1-0. these guys concentrated more on me than the game. they were throwing peanut shells at me, well i should say trying to, they ended up hitting the people between us or the people next to me more than they hit me. finally they threw a hotdog wrapper at me getting ketchup and mustard all over the back of my jersey. i didnt realize this until the lady behind me, between me adn this jackass, told me and she actually went and got the usher. The guy (drunk, late 20's early 30's) left for about 3 innings or so. He came back and he and his buddies tried to start the wave for about 2 innings straight, never making it any further than a section or two over. In all, these guys spent more time at the game heckling and trying to start the wave more than they actually watched it. That is sad. I even had brewers fans so to me that they were embarrassed to be fans of the same time as this d bag. this experience and the last time i was in right field have officially put miller park a couple of notches down on stadiums that I enjoy going to. I guess that the biggest pretty boys must always sit in right field.
anyway, heres to that jackass.
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I found out that if you are not a brewers fan and are wearing anything for the away team, right field and especially the beerpeen are not good places to sit. As soon as I sat down friday night in the beerpen, guys two rows behind me start to rip on me. I dont mind words, but then they started to yell out things like cute one and queer, etc. It was only the second inning and i believe the game was still 1-0. these guys concentrated more on me than the game. they were throwing peanut shells at me, well i should say trying to, they ended up hitting the people between us or the people next to me more than they hit me. finally they threw a hotdog wrapper at me getting ketchup and mustard all over the back of my jersey. i didnt realize this until the lady behind me, between me adn this jackass, told me and she actually went and got the usher. The guy (drunk, late 20's early 30's) left for about 3 innings or so. He came back and he and his buddies tried to start the wave for about 2 innings straight, never making it any further than a section or two over. In all, these guys spent more time at the game heckling and trying to start the wave more than they actually watched it. That is sad. I even had brewers fans so to me that they were embarrassed to be fans of the same time as this d bag. this experience and the last time i was in right field have officially put miller park a couple of notches down on stadiums that I enjoy going to. I guess that the biggest pretty boys must always sit in right field.
anyway, heres to that jackass.
That's my mistake, when I answered the question I assumed you were a Brewers fan (I don't read this thread too much, so I don't know some people's favorite teams). There's no defending that type of behavior, which has become more frequent from Brewers fans as more have started to jump on the bandwagon over the past few years. If you are a fan of the opposing team, the best seats to sit in are the ones behind home plate. They have the most ushers who can step in and stop that kind of behavior.
I remember the right field bleachers being cleared when they play the Cubs, but until your post, the games with the Cardinals have always tended to be more good-natured affairs. That said, sorry on behalf of a Brewers fan.
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So how about the abortion of a season the Brewers are putting up!?
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I'm not even going to read this whole thing because I know exactly how the argument will go, as it always goes the same way. The Cubs fans will naturally think they are so far superior to the whole rest of the MLB (with all of the World Series appearances they make...) and the Brewers fans will just talk about how they are up and coming. Here is my take on it. The Cubs will be better ONLY because 1. NED YOST - if the Brewers fire him they become the best team in the Central...he SINGLE HANDEDLY cost the Brewers the division last year and is doing it again this year, and there is no arguing that, and 2. injuries to 1 of our 2 aces for long periods of time (see: Gallardo this year, Sheets last year). If the Brewers can be 2 games away from winning the division with Yost as a manager and an ace out for 1/2 the year it's pretty clear they could do some damage with a full roster and a new manager.
As for the Cubs, they will continue to make the playoffs as a result of how bad the rest of the division is and then get embarrassed in the playoffs (whether it's getting swept or blaming other people for the losses). Moises Alou admitted that had Bartman not touched the ball he would still not have caught that foul ball (not to mention the fact that the Cubs still blew a lead, and then a series, after that play...people make it out to be 1 play in the whole best of 7 series, Bartman or Alou catching it...ONE play in SEVEN games). At least he can admit the truth...can Cubs fans? OF COURSE NOT! There's ALWAYS an excuse and next year is ALWAYS the year for them to "break the curse." At least Milwaukee knows a bad team when they see one and can admit they aren't good when they're not.
Put either the Brewers or the Cubs in any division in the AL and they finish no better than 3rd place, but if you were to debate that with a Cubs fan they'd tell you they'd win over 100 games. FIBs...
P.S. I hope Zambrano can lower his caffeine intake before he has a heart attack on the mound, I want to see him punch another catcher after a wild pitch gets by him before he dies.
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So how about the abortion of a season the Brewers are putting up!?
Not sure I'd call it an "abortion".
Two things:
1) I'm pretty sure as a Chubs fan you weren't expecting to be 20 games over .500 at this point in the season. We're 8.5 games back (as of Mon) and you're 20 games over .500. With that many wins, shouldn't you be up further than you are? The Chubs have 9 losses at home - the Brewers are responsible for 4 of those losses. I'm not saying we're going to catch you (because I've pretty much given up all hope for the division), but those are interesting numbers, indeed.
2) The Brewers have played the toughest schedule in the league so far. We've also had some major injury issues (Gallardo, Hardy, Weeks, Gagne, Riske). No excuses, as all teams go through this and all teams play the same schedule, but we're still 3 games over .500 and only 8.5 back of the hottest team in the majors with the schedule and injuries stacked against us. Our schedule eases in the second half, the Chubs schedule gets a little tougher. Maybe things will even out.
All told, the Cardinals aren't going away. Maybe they surprise both of us and pull out the division?
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Put either the Brewers or the Cubs in any division in the AL and they finish no better than 3rd place, but if you were to debate that with a Cubs fan they'd tell you they'd win over 100 games. FIBs...
Yea youre right they wouldnt finish better than third in any AL Division ::) They are ony 20 games over .500, 18-5 against the NL West and 7-4 against he NL East... both better than against the central so they really are winning because they are part of the "worst division"
I gurantee you the Cubs would not be in 3rd place in the AL West and AL Central
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Yea youre right they wouldnt finish better than third in any AL Division ::) They are ony 20 games over .500, 18-5 against the NL West and 7-4 against he NL East... both better than against the central so they really are winning because they are part of the "worst division"
I gurantee you the Cubs would not be in 3rd place in the AL West and AL Central
Like I said, typical Cubs fan. The NL is weak as a whole. Yes, there are a couple good teams. It's like the NBA. The 9th best team in the Western Conference was better than the 3rd best team in the Eastern Conference. That's how the NL vs. AL is. Right now the Cubs may be ahead of these teams, but if they were in the same division as the White Sox and Tigers (yes, the Tigers) or as the Athletics and the Angels they would be in 3rd place, and 4th if they were in the same division as the Rays, Red Sox, and the Yankees.
Cubs fans (and all Chicago sports fans for any sports team) are all the same and completely predictable. If you get swept in the first round of the playoffs in the NL you wouldn't make it to the playoffs in the AL.
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Also, what is the Cubs record against teams with winning records? Hint: They have won a total of 2 series against teams with winning records this year.
Also, what is the Cubs record against the Brewers? I'll answer that since I know you'll make up some stupid excuse: 2-4 (0-2 in series) P.S. All 6 games were at home.
Yeah, you're good against the good teams...
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Also, what is the Cubs record against teams with winning records? Hint: They have won a total of 2 series against teams with winning records this year.
Also, what is the Cubs record against the Brewers? I'll answer that since I know you'll make up some stupid excuse: 2-4 (0-2 in series) P.S. All 6 games were at home.
Yeah, you're good against the good teams...
Sweet deal, when you miss the playoffs again, but beat the cubs in each series you play them...you can spend your time designing a patch to put under the winning season patch that should have been put on this year!
I agree Ned Yost is your problem, but also look at part of your lineup to start the season. Weeks hit under .200 for the longest time, that doesn't help a "contender". It was also funny how when offensive power house jason kendall slowed down, so did the crew!
I would also like to know how you plan on replacing the production of prince fielder, and the prospects you will give up to make a wild card run this year?
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Yes Cub fans, your team is doing great, however your team is up just about the same number of games as the Brewers were last year, still a long time left in the season. Your schedule has been pretty easy with a lot of home games, let everything even out, and then you can pencil in the post-season. Just ask us Brewer fans, I was lining up for post-season tickets last year at this time, we all know how that ended.
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Sweet deal, when you miss the playoffs again, but beat the cubs in each series you play them...you can spend your time designing a patch to put under the winning season patch that should have been put on this year!
I agree Ned Yost is your problem, but also look at part of your lineup to start the season. Weeks hit under .200 for the longest time, that doesn't help a "contender". It was also funny how when offensive power house jason kendall slowed down, so did the crew!
I would also like to know how you plan on replacing the production of prince fielder, and the prospects you will give up to make a wild card run this year?
Like I said, if we fire Ned Yost while the Wild Card is still in reach we will win the Wild Card (only St. Louis and Florida are ahead of us for the Wild Card, and I'm still not a believer in them). But the Brewers won't fire Yost for whatever reason, so I guess I will agree with you that we won't be in the playoffs. I think the division is too far out of reach already, so congratulations, you won the division. Let's see if you can make it to the World Series for the first time in...100 years. Or maybe you'll get swept again.
That part of the lineup issue is Yost's fault. He puts Weeks, and half of the rest of the team, in a position to fail. You really think Weeks is a leadoff hitter, and hits under .200 if he's out of the leadoff spot? I would completely disagree. In fact, if he gets healthy and comes back hitting in the 5 hole, where he SHOULD be, I would be willing to put money on him being between .275 and .300 for the rest of the year (not his overall average with it so low this far into the season), with a lot of RBIs behind Braun and Prince. Weeks can rake the first pitch fastballs that he gets, but as a leadoff hitter he can't swing at them, so he gets in an 0-2 hole and his batting average reflects that. Gwynn Jr. should be starting in CF and leading off...he'll get on base and hit around .300. You don't need power at the leadoff, and even me, a person who hasn't played baseball competitively in 6 years, knows that, you need a guy who will get on base and steal bases. Yost has 2 players batting right around .200 in the 1, 2 holes, the 2 hole being a guy who strikes out non-stop. That's just terrible as a manager when you have Cory Heart and Tony Gwynn Jr. on the team. If our lineup goes Gwynn Jr., Heart, Braun, Fielder, Weeks, Hall (playing shortstop...JJ Hardy SUCKS balls and is completely OVERRATED defensively...decent but not spectacular like people like to think), Branyan, Kendall, and pitcher we become tons better than with Weeks and Cameron starting us off (the one good move Yost made was to have the pitcher bat 8 and Kendall bat 9...if my lineup were used, Hall, Branyan, and pitcher would be way too many strikeouts in a row...Kendall puts the ball in play). Also I'm not sure when Yost is going to realize that Dave Bush is TERRIBLE and needs to be put in the bullpen for Carlos Villinueva. He has no clue how to handle pitchers in any way. Gagne asked to be taken out of the closers roll and the next day he wants it back, and Yost GIVES IT BACK! If he asks to be taken out of the roll his head is clearly not right at the moment. I'd bet Torres won't blow a save while Gagne's out yet Gagne will come back and get the closers roll back. That's how big of an idiot Yost is. And when it comes to pulling pitchers he couldn't be worse (see the Twins game from Saturday...Julian Tavarez, a guy who hadn't pitched ALL YEAR already pitched a full inning, gives up a single, then walks the next 2 guys, so bases loaded and NO OUTS and Yost LEAVES HIM IN! Oh, and that was in the 10th inning. If we switch managers I would put all my money on the Brewers being in 1st place in the division. Not your fault, not my fault, not holding it against you...you have a good manager and it plays out to your benefit. We have the worst one in baseball and it kills us.
About replacing the production of Prince Fielder, he hasn't produced all that well this season (decent but not superstar like last year by any means). Not to mention we have him for 2 more years AFTER this year. So that makes no sense to me. And I highly doubt we'll trade prospects away, the Brewers aren't smart enough to do that. They just wait until the off-season to make terrible free agent signings (see: Mike Cameron, Jeff Suppan, Eric Gagne, all making around $10 million a year). But if we're pretending we're losing Prince Fielder next year, we have 3 players in the minor leagues who are tearing it up. La Porta and Gamels are both in the top 3 in Double A in RBIs and homeruns and La Porta is hitting .300 while Gamels is hitting .350. We also have a stud shortstop who is batting about .310. I'm not too worried about replacing Prince. If it were Braun, that's another story.
I think you beat us out in management and front office, and we beat you out in talent. Right now your positives beat ours...hopefully we can change that soon.
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You honestly think the Brewers are more talented than the Cubs?
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wadesworld... some of the things you said were correct, Rickie Weeks shouldn't bat in the leadoff position, however playing Gwynn Jr over Gabe Kapler is ridiculous. And you stated that JJ Hardy is awful, but yet Bill Hall would play over him... apparently you don't watch too many games. Bill Hall is downright bad right now, he wants to be traded, and doesn't give a crap about the games... here is my lineup for the brewers, when Weeks comes back
looked up the stats... at SS, JJ Hardy has a fielding percentage at .979... Hall at .965 (this is just at SS too, not counting his other positions he had played)
Hart(not heart... HART), Kapler, Braun, Fielder, Weeks, Branyon, Hardy, Kendall, P Spot...
putting the pitcher at the 8th spot really doesn't affect anything, in fact, all it does is in the long run have the pitcher spot bat more times, which when your pitchers can't hit(which the Brewers pitchers can't, except Gallardo, who is hurt), it doesn't help.
Now to spartan's comment... do I think the Brewers are more talented then the Cubs... yes and no... I honestly don't think even with the more spent money on players see the Cubs as a much better team
and if the most talented team won the world series/made the playoffs every year, what the hell is the point of the season, just see who the best team is on paper and put them in the world series.
Like I said in a post before, the Cubs are just like the Brewers last year, playing out of their mind baseball and over-achieving a bit. They will come back to earth, and possibly the Brewers, or Cardinals, could overtake them.
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Bush and Suppan are actually quite good at hitting, as is McClung.
As far as the manager goes, fire Yost and pick up Willie Randolf while he's still out there.
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Bush and Suppan are actually quite good at hitting, as is McClung.
As far as the manager goes, fire Yost and pick up Willie Randolf while he's still out there.
Why would you want a manager that did less with a more talented team?
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Like I said in a post before, the Cubs are just like the Brewers last year, playing out of their mind baseball and over-achieving a bit. They will come back to earth, and possibly the Brewers, or Cardinals, could overtake them.
You're kidding right. ::)
The Cubs are not overachieving. They have the best offense in the NL, two of the top starters in the league and a solid bullpen (especially at the end of games). That combination allows you to win alot of ballgames. In addition, they are a veteran club led by an experienced manager. The 2008 Cubs are nothing like the 2007 Brewers.
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You're kidding right. ::)
The Cubs are not overachieving. They have the best offense in the NL, two of the top starters in the league and a solid bullpen (especially at the end of games). That combination allows you to win alot of ballgames. In addition, they are a veteran club led by an experienced manager. The 2008 Cubs are nothing like the 2007 Brewers.
Not to mention they are the only team that hasn't had a 3 game loosing streak yet
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Not to mention they are the only team that hasn't had a 3 game loosing streak yet
Forgot to mention that. The Cubs have played consistent winning baseball since Opening Day.
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You're kidding right. ::)
The Cubs are not overachieving. They have the best offense in the NL, two of the top starters in the league and a solid bullpen (especially at the end of games). That combination allows you to win alot of ballgames. In addition, they are a veteran club led by an experienced manager. The 2008 Cubs are nothing like the 2007 Brewers.
holy crap... 2007 Brewers first half of the season was exactly what you said, you just are wearing blue and red glasses, like last year I was wearing blue and mustard yellow glasses
last year the Brewers had the best offense in the NL, the staff was pitching well and for bullpen, our closer made the all-star game (and Turnbow was a solid set-up man pre-all-star break)
veteran club led by an experienced manager, yes this is somewhat imporant but not always, look at the Yankees of the past years, that formula doesn't always work.
The Cubs right now remind me of the Brewers of last year, can do no wrong. What you said of the positives of the Cubs this year, was what the Brewers had last year, you don't think so? At the all-star break JJ Hardy last year had 20+ home runs, Fielder was unstoppable, and Braun was getting into the mix. Then after the all-star break, things started to fall off the track. Long season left to go.
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At the all-star break JJ Hardy last year had 20+ home runs, Fielder was unstoppable, and Braun was getting into the mix. Then after the all-star break, things started to fall off the track.
Things fell off track because the successes were all on JJ, Fielder, and Braun hitting the long ball. Once they came down, the team played to their level.
On the other hand, the Cubs have consistently played a complete all around offense, something the Brewers have failed to compile.
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No, things fell off the track for the Brewers last year when Cordero and Turnbow decided to blow quite a few games in bunches last year. Relying on the long ball is good when you hit the most homeruns (or top 2, can't remember if a team beat us out at the end). Cordero did good things for the Brewers last year, but he also blew 15-20 games, and Turnbow wasn't much better at the end of the season... oh and Capuano not winning a game in his last 18 starts didn't help much either
I understand Cub fans, be excited, I was at this time last year, I am just pointing out there is a long season left, and who knows, possibly the NBA finals will still be going on when it is all finished.
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Things fell off track because the successes were all on JJ, Fielder, and Braun hitting the long ball. Once they came down, the team played to their level.
On the other hand, the Cubs have consistently played a complete all around offense, something the Brewers have failed to compile.
Well said.
Also, those guys were young kids that were in midst of their first pennant race. The Cubs are made up of veteran players.
Mayor - Your right, at this time last year the Brewers had a bunch of guys that were overachieving. Who on the Cubs so far is having a career season (other than Dempster). For the most part, guys are playing to their career statistics. Futhermore, guys like Lilly & Howry are actually having worse seasons than they did last year.
Also, I don't understand your point about managers. Having an experienced manager is very important. Using Joe Torre as an example is poor because he had already managed three clubs prior to joining the Yankees in 1996 (Mets, Cardinals & Braves) and led the Braves to 1982 NL West title.
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possibly the NBA finals will still be going on when it is all finished.
well said, they are taking foooooreverrrr!!
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I was explaining that yes... having an experienced manager helps, but isn't a guarantee... I used Joe Torre, because since 2001ish, what has he done with easily the "best" team in baseball... I knew he managed before the Yankees, you totally missed what I was explaining in that case.
Who is having a career year for the Cubs besides Dempster?
Yes we all knew before the season Kerry Wood would be a lights out closer...
we knew Ryan Theriot would be batting .320ish
Geovany Soto, yes, he was easily penciled in as one of the best catchers in the league... give me a break RJax55, get off your Cubs horse and look at the numbers some of these role players for the Cubs are putting up. Just about everyone is having career years up till this point.
The Cubs are made of veteran players... who aren't use to a pennant race any more then Brewers players are.
When has Soriano been in a pennant race besides last year, and when he was a rookie with the Yankees(which doesn't count because of the team he was on)
How about Zambrano, or Fukudome, or Theriot, or Soto, or Pie, or Lilly
Who the hell on the Cubs have been in a pennant race besides Kerry Wood and Derrick Lee... I am counting out last year, since then all of the Brewers players would also be "veteran" enough in these pennant races.
looking back, yeah, your right RJax55... the Cubs aren't overachieving, they just planned on all having amazing seasons at one time, they are on pace for way over 100 wins, not overachieving at all... Can I ask a question, where can I purchase these blue and red sunglasses you're sporting?
And hey, do you have an extra Japanese headband for me, that's a much better novelty headgear to wear at a baseball stadium over the crowns you see Brewer fans wearing. The only difference is you only see children under the age of 12 wearing crowns... you see grown men wearing these Japanese headbands
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I just want to point out how much the brewers were overachieving going back to last years record. They start 25-11, a great start!!! Since then, not including Jun. 17, they are 94-101.
About .500, where they have been for almost the past decade.
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I just want to point out how much the brewers were overachieving going back to last years record. They start 25-11, a great start!!! Since then, not including Jun. 17, they are 94-101.
About .500, where they have been for almost the past decade.
Glad the Cubs have a lot to show within that time period too. Wait, replace "decade" with "century" and then it's about right.
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You honestly think the Brewers are more talented than the Cubs?
Chyeeeeeeeeeessssssss
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I just want to point out how much the brewers were overachieving going back to last years record. They start 25-11, a great start!!! Since then, not including Jun. 17, they are 94-101.
I just want to point out that the Cubs have, in essence, an equal winning percentage in the playoffs as the Brewers since their 25-11 start last year. Since then, not including Jun. 17, they are 0-3 in the playoffs, or a 0.000 winning percentage, and the Brewers are 0-0, or ----- in the playoffs :).
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don't triple post like this... just edit your first post...
I'm a Brewer fan, and I find it annoying. ;D
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I've come to the realization, through this topic and through talking person to person with others, that it is impossible to have a legitimate conversation about Chicago sports with a Chicago sports fan, ESPECIALLY a Chicago Cubs fan...so I have decided to make this a big joke, have some fun.
FIBs for sure...
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I was explaining that yes... having an experienced manager helps, but isn't a guarantee... I used Joe Torre, because since 2001ish, what has he done with easily the "best" team in baseball... I knew he managed before the Yankees, you totally missed what I was explaining in that case.
Who is having a career year for the Cubs besides Dempster?
Yes we all knew before the season Kerry Wood would be a lights out closer...
we knew Ryan Theriot would be batting .320ish
Geovany Soto, yes, he was easily penciled in as one of the best catchers in the league... give me a break RJax55, get off your Cubs horse and look at the numbers some of these role players for the Cubs are putting up. Just about everyone is having career years up till this point.
The Cubs are made of veteran players... who aren't use to a pennant race any more then Brewers players are.
When has Soriano been in a pennant race besides last year, and when he was a rookie with the Yankees(which doesn't count because of the team he was on)
How about Zambrano, or Fukudome, or Theriot, or Soto, or Pie, or Lilly
Who the hell on the Cubs have been in a pennant race besides Kerry Wood and Derrick Lee... I am counting out last year, since then all of the Brewers players would also be "veteran" enough in these pennant races.
looking back, yeah, your right RJax55... the Cubs aren't overachieving, they just planned on all having amazing seasons at one time, they are on pace for way over 100 wins, not overachieving at all... Can I ask a question, where can I purchase these blue and red sunglasses you're sporting?
And hey, do you have an extra Japanese headband for me, that's a much better novelty headgear to wear at a baseball stadium over the crowns you see Brewer fans wearing. The only difference is you only see children under the age of 12 wearing crowns... you see grown men wearing these Japanese headbands
I usually stay out of these things, but I'll take a stab at this one...
Dempster is having a career year for sure. He's been pitching great. However, I do not think he will keep up at this pace. Solid, but not like this.
Kerry Wood, when healthy, has pretty much always been lights out. A 1.15 K/9 for your career is pretty damn good when you consider that Nolan Ryan's career K/9 is 1.06. When a guy like Wood can throw a heater in the mid-90s with a knee buckling slider, it's pretty tough to hit him when you only see him once in the game. So long as he stays healthy, I don't think anyone who actually pays attention to baseball will be surprised by his numbers as a closer.
Ryan Theriot is hitting the ball pretty well so far this season with a .310 average (although I am getting a bit sick of his throwing errors). I wouldn't go as far as saying he is having a "career year" because when you are only working on your second full year in the majors, it's difficult to classify that as a "career year." His numbers last year were actually below his averages in the minors, so he played pretty poorly last year. He hit .304 in both AAA and AA, so it's clear that he is capable of being a decent, every day SS. Is he playing above his head? Yea, I think so. We can see some evidence of that through his .276 average over the last month. I definitely think he'll hit .290ish for the season though, and that's only slightly better than his career average.
I'm assuming you don't pay much attention to fantasy baseball either because numerous sources listed Geovany Soto as a sleeper this season. You must have missed the entire month of September last year when Soto hit .389 with 3 HRs in only 54 ABs. He's a career .280 hitter in the minors and he's only hitting .288 right now. Not much of a difference.
Cubs players with playoff experience (prior to 2007): Kerry Wood (1998, 2003), Derrek Lee (2003), Carlos Zambrano (2003), Alfonso Soriano (2001-2003), Aramis Ramirez (2003), Mark DeRosa (2001-2003), Jim Edmonds (2000-2002, 2004-2006), Henry Blanco (2002, 2004), Daryle Ward (1999, 2001), Jason Marquis (2001, 2004-2005), Ted Lilly (2002-2003), Jon Lieber (2004), Bob Howry (2000), Neal Cotts (2005).
That's 14 guys with playoff experience for the Cubs. You have to be kind of used to a pennant race, especially for guys like Soriano, DeRosa (Braves), Edmonds (Cardinals), Blanco (Braves), Marquis (Cardinals). Also, I didn't know that just because you were a Yankee that your playoff experience doesn't count. Fukudome also went to the playoffs a few times in Japan if you'd like to count that.
The Brewers have 10 players with playoff experience (Kendall, Cameron, Kapler, Counsell, Branyan, Suppan, Riske, Gagne, Mota, Tavarez).
Also, if you are going to act like you know what you are talking about, you might as well be right about it. You mentioned Felix Pie - I forgot - his 64 ABs have made a huge difference for the Cubs this season. He hasn't gotten an AB since May 11th and won't get one again until September call-ups.
And it's tough to say the Cubs are overachieving when Tom Verducci of Sports Illustrated writes this prior to the season: "The Cubs just might win their division by more games than any other team, especially if they add one more bat." Oh yea, Verducci also picked the Cubs to go the World Series.
Nevermind the fact that 17 of 19 ESPN contributors also picked the Cubs to win the Central this year. Three of those contributors also had the Cubs in, or winning, the World Series.
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Since Wadesworld thinks the brewers are "more talented" we are going to go position by position
C- Soto vs Kendall- Maybe 7 years ago Kendall wouldve stood a chance but right now Soto hands down
Advantage: Cubs
1B- DLee vs Prince- Very close matchup, DLee wins by a large margin on defense, Fielder by a slight margin on hitting and youth
Advantage: Push
2B- DeRosa vs Weeks- If youre going purely on talent I guess you have to give a slight nod to Weeks but he hasnt shown his talent at the big league level and DeRosa is a steady player. I think DeRosa is a better player but since we are basing this purely on talents Ill give the edge to Weeks.
Advantage: Brewers
SS- Hardy vs Theriot- Essenentially the same as above
Advantage: Brewers
3B- Ramirez vs Hall- This ones not even close, Ramirez wins on all accounts
Advantage: Cubs
LF- Soriano vs Braun- Going based on talent Im going with a push but I personally like Braun better than Soriano and think he will end up being the better ball player but its a push talent wise
Advantage: Push
CF- Johnson/Edmonds vs Cameron- This is a tough one to call but ill give the edge to the Brewers based on the injury history of Edmonds and the fact the Johnson was an idiot last night
Advantage: Brewers
RF- Fukudome vs Hart- Fukudome has the fielding by a large margin and I believe hes a better pure hitter, Hart wins the speed by a slim margin
Advantage: Cubs
Ace: Sheets vs Zambrano- I would lean towards Zambrano here based on injury history but based on pure talent ill give it a push
Advantage: Push
2nd Starter: Dempster vs Gallardo- Im going to give this one a push too, although Gallarado will probably turn out to be better.
Advantage: Push
3rd Starter: Lilly vs Suppan- Im giving the nod to Lilly based on talent alone
Advantage: Cubs
4th Starter: Marquis vs Bush- Both suck its a push
Advantage: Push
5 Starter: Gallager vs Parra- Still too early to tell, both show flashes of brilliance
Advantage: Push
Setupman 1: Marmol vs Mota- Not even close
Advantage: Cubs
Setupman 2: Howry vs McClung: Closer but still cubs
Advantage: Cubs
Closer: Wood vs Gagne: Wood is the more talented pitcher, we are not counting injury history in a talent contest
Advantage: Cubs
Once I lay it out its closer than i originally thought but the Cubs still get the talent edge based on their pitching staff, I think a lot of the cubs are better overall players than the corresponding Brewers but based just on talent its a much closer match.
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Spartan, it doesn't matter that the Cubs are more talented, they just buy all their players anyway.
I love taking the rebuttal argument out of the Brewers fans mouth.
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Since Wadesworld thinks the brewers are "more talented" we are going to go position by position
C- Soto vs Kendall- Maybe 7 years ago Kendall wouldve stood a chance but right now Soto hands down
Advantage: Cubs
1B- DLee vs Prince- Very close matchup, DLee wins by a large margin on defense, Fielder by a slight margin on hitting and youth
Advantage: Push
2B- DeRosa vs Weeks- If youre going purely on talent I guess you have to give a slight nod to Weeks but he hasnt shown his talent at the big league level and DeRosa is a steady player. I think DeRosa is a better player but since we are basing this purely on talents Ill give the edge to Weeks.
Advantage: Brewers
SS- Hardy vs Theriot- Essenentially the same as above
Advantage: Brewers
3B- Ramirez vs Hall- This ones not even close, Ramirez wins on all accounts
Advantage: Cubs
LF- Soriano vs Braun- Going based on talent Im going with a push but I personally like Braun better than Soriano and think he will end up being the better ball player but its a push talent wise
Advantage: Push
CF- Johnson/Edmonds vs Cameron- This is a tough one to call but ill give the edge to the Brewers based on the injury history of Edmonds and the fact the Johnson was an idiot last night
Advantage: Brewers
RF- Fukudome vs Hart- Fukudome has the fielding by a large margin and I believe hes a better pure hitter, Hart wins the speed by a slim margin
Advantage: Cubs
Ace: Sheets vs Zambrano- I would lean towards Zambrano here based on injury history but based on pure talent ill give it a push
Advantage: Push
2nd Starter: Dempster vs Gallardo- Im going to give this one a push too, although Gallarado will probably turn out to be better.
Advantage: Push
3rd Starter: Lilly vs Suppan- Im giving the nod to Lilly based on talent alone
Advantage: Cubs
4th Starter: Marquis vs Bush- Both suck its a push
Advantage: Push
5 Starter: Gallager vs Parra- Still too early to tell, both show flashes of brilliance
Advantage: Push
Setupman 1: Marmol vs Mota- Not even close
Advantage: Cubs
Setupman 2: Howry vs McClung: Closer but still cubs
Advantage: Cubs
Closer: Wood vs Gagne: Wood is the more talented pitcher, we are not counting injury history in a talent contest
Advantage: Cubs
Once I lay it out its closer than i originally thought but the Cubs still get the talent edge based on their pitching staff, I think a lot of the cubs are better overall players than the corresponding Brewers but based just on talent its a much closer match.
Exactly, based on talent it's much closer, yet the Cubs are way ahead in the division. It's all management, and IF (which they won't, because they're afraid to for whatever reason) Ned Yost is fired, the Brewers will be MUCH better off. Also I have to disagree with Soriano vs. Braun being a push, Soriano's talented and a great player, but I'm not sure there's any player I'd rather have locked up for 8 years than Ryan Braun right now. Also with Gallardo vs. Dempster I think Gallardo has a lot more talent but he's been injured so it hasn't been seen all that much this year (but based on talent alone I'd give that one to the Brewers). I have to be honest and say I haven't seen Gallager but Parra has a ton of talent and has been putting it all together in his past 5 or so starts. I would agree that your set-up men are much better than ours. We now have Soloman Torres closing for us, and he is very talented but that still goes to Wood definitely. Gagne has no talent since he's been off the 'roids.
Overall the big difference is management. Talent-wise these teams are very close...check the standings and that's not the case. I think we'll close the game and make it respectable but even I'm penciling in the Cubs as the Central Division champs. I don't think there's any reason we shouldn't win the Wild Card, as I can't see the Cardinals (especially with Pujols out to injury for some time) and the Marlins staying ahead of us. If the Mets get hot they for sure could beat us out but at this point I don't see it happening. If we have a new manager by the start of next year (and I don't even care who, just NOT Ned Yost), it's a 2 team race for the division that will probably be won within the last 2 weeks of the year.
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Spartan, it doesn't matter that the Cubs are more talented, they just buy all their players anyway.
I love taking the rebuttal argument out of the Brewers fans mouth.
And that wasn't going to be my rebuttal at all quite honestly. I don't care if teams buy all their players, that's part of the game. That might be the worst argument I've ever heard, and only a Cubs fan would think of/say that. I wish the Brewers knew how to buy SOME of their players, but they're terrible at it (see: Cameron, Suppan, Gagne), but I'm very glad that we have more talent in our farm system/prospects than Felixe Pie, quite honestly.
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And that wasn't going to be my rebuttal at all quite honestly. I don't care if teams buy all their players, that's part of the game. That might be the worst argument I've ever heard, and only a Cubs fan would think of/say that. I wish the Brewers knew how to buy SOME of their players, but they're terrible at it (see: Cameron, Suppan, Gagne), but I'm very glad that we have more talent in our farm system/prospects than Felixe Pie, quite honestly.
I think you missed the sarcasm on marqptm's post.....the point of the Cubs payroll is CONSTANTLY pointed out by Brewers fans which is laughable. Yes, even with their revenue sharing checks received from MLB for the last 10 years the Brewers are terrible at buying players.
Regarding your comment on the farm system....interesting....Baseball America ranked the Cubs Minor League System at #20 early this year......one spot ahead of the Brewers...and that's after several big ticket trades have depleted the Cubs of some their well-regarded prospects.
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I do wish the Brewers had more eye for singing veterans. Suppan has been decent, but other than that getting a bunch of old, washed-up Mitchell Report players isn't exciting. Some trades have worked out (getting McClung, Torres both for nothing). And any fan has would be proud of what the farm system has been able to produce on its own to make the team competitive. When Sheets or Parra pitches, it's often been the case that 7 of the 9 players in the lineup came from the system. Gamel and LaPorta will both be up eventually as well. It's a source of pride to have players brought up that were drafted by the team have so much of a role, though I don't know if it applies to all teams, but even the Yankees like to take note of their home grown players.
Ranking the farm systems now is kind of moot. The Brewers were #1 or #2 in that same index for a couple years while Fielder, Weeks, Hart, Hardy, Gallardo, Parra, etc were all coming up. Plus I think the argument is based on who you turn out, not who you ship to other teams. Gamel and LaPorta are huge bright sports, and Gamel's rise wasn't really seen until it happened this year. But other than that they are weak, and sorely lacking pitching. However, they did just have 6 of the top 68 selections in the draft.
I agree with what player would you rather have locked up for eight years, it would have to be Braun. Since Braun was called up, he's led the majors in home runs, and I'm pretty sure in RBIs also (thanks to A-Rod's injury). Soriano played well when he was healthy this year, but Braun has been sensational for over a year now that nobody could pass him up.
As far as other matchups, Soto has been amazing. The Brewers haven't had a good catcher in ages. Kendall has done his job, but is another career .300 hitter hitting closer to .250. Weeks was good for about the first two months he was up; until I see otherwise I'd have to take DeRosa for consistency and versatility over Weeks or Hall. I'd also call SS a wash. Hardy has been lackluster besides the fluke first half last year. He more power, but the Brewers could use someone that gets on base like Theriot. Overall Fukudome may
be the better player, but the Brewers would be a lot worse off without Hart. I wish the Brewers had 2 or 3 Corey Harts in the lineup. He's a good base stealer, has plenty of power, and is near the top of the NL in hitting with runners on.
I guess my perspective came more from asking the question "would I trade if I could?", not considering contracts and salary. In that case, I'm sure even Brewers fans would disagree, but as a Brewers fan I'd rather have Soto over Kendall, DeRosa over Weeks, Theriot over Hardy, Ramirez over Hall, and Marmol over anyone in the Brewer bullpen. Others are either indifferent or I'd prefer the Brewer. Though if you can mix and match rotations, I'd obviously take Zambrano and Dempster.
If it's this year, I'll take the rental on Dempster, though if he returns to form Gallardo is the future ace. I agree that the whole rotations are basically a wash. Suppan and Lilly and Parra and Gallager will put up similar numbers, and in each case I'd side with having the lefty. McClung is kind of an incomplete. He's not going back to the bullpen anytime soon, and based on how he's been as a starter he has much more value than a middle reliever but hasn't had enough time to show himself as a starter.
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Regarding your comment on the farm system....interesting....Baseball America ranked the Cubs Minor League System at #20 early this year......one spot ahead of the Brewers...and that's after several big ticket trades have depleted the Cubs of some their well-regarded prospects.
So all of your current All-Stars came up through the Chicago Cubs system I suppose. Aramis Ramirez, Derrick Lee, Jim Edmonds, Koske Fukudome, and Alfonso Soriano, I see they went through the Cubs farm system. Oh, they don't? Hmm, weird, Ben Sheets, Ryan Braun, Prince Fielder, Yovanni Gallardo, Corey Hart, Rickie Weeks, Manny Parra, and JJ Hardy, all went through the Brewers farm system. And I can guarantee you that we have 3 players in our farm system that are better than any 3 players you have in yours.
But I guess you have brought up better players through your farm system than the Brewers have recently...interesting how well the Cubs have done through their farm system, well above them Brewers
FIBs
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So all of your current All-Stars came up through the Chicago Cubs system I suppose. Aramis Ramirez, Derrick Lee, Jim Edmonds, Koske Fukudome, and Alfonso Soriano, I see they went through the Cubs farm system. Oh, they don't? Hmm, weird, Prince Fielder, Rickie Weeks, Yovanni Gallardo, Manny Parra, Ryan Braun, JJ Hardy, and Corey Hart all went through the Brewers farm system. And I can guarantee you that we have 3 players in our farm system that are better than any 3 players you have in yours.
But I guess you have brought up better players through your farm system than the Brewers have recently...interesting how well the Cubs have done through their farm system, well above them Brewers
FIBs
Face wadesworld, until the brewers do something as good as just making the playoffs, its tough to defend your team!
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If we are going by "what have you done for me lately" method like you suggest robmufan... then there is no way you can defend the Cubs... being swept in the playoffs is quite embarrassing... and that whole 100 year drought isn't the greatest thing to be known by.
eaglewarrior08... Soto was a sleeper, however I think we can all agree that we didn't expect him to hit like he has, he was suppose to be good, not like this... the same went for Braun when he came up last year for the Brewers, or Gallardo last year... they were expected to be good, not all-star caliber. Kerry Wood, although has some good stuff, hasn't pitched in the majors in quite a few years, how were we to know he still had his stuff pitching, lots of times after numerous surgeries on someone's arm, they lose a lot of their pitch effectiveness. I through in Pie because I despise that man, even if he doesn't play, he reminds me of Pierre, and I hate that man too, just a personal thing, I know he rarely plays.
As for the sportswriters picking the Cubs this year, I don't care who the sportswriters pick. I knew the Cubs were the favorite to win the NL Central, not to have the best record in baseball. If we went by everything sportswriters said, this sports world would be completely different.
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Face wadesworld, until the brewers do something as good as just making the playoffs, its tough to defend your team!
What does making the playoffs have to do with how well a farm system has been developed? Sweet how when I prove my point you just go "make the playoffs." Typical FIB.
Also, congratulations, now make the World Series for the first time in a deca...scratch that, century.
You all act like you have 6 world series rings in the last 10 years. You aren't the Yankees. You make the playoffs and then embarrass yourselves.
Great farm system, though...
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Face wadesworld, until the brewers do something as good as just making the playoffs, its tough to defend your team!
You won just as many playoff games as we did last year... And one less World Series in the last 100. Eventually, the Cubs might actually play a road series, and will come back down to earth. And I'll enjoy every moment of it.
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Wow Wadesworld... hes was not saying that the cubs had a lot of homegrown talent on their roster, he actually commended the Brewers for bring up talent through their system! He was just saying that currently (with the players in the system RIGHT NOW) the Cubs have a higher ranked farm system according to Baseball America, one of the most respected baseball magazines in the country. Way to pick out only what was convienent.
Oh and by the way, the Yankees have also embaressed themselves in the playoffs in the last 5 years, they have 0 rings in the time period
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Wow Wadesworld... hes was not saying that the cubs had a lot of homegrown talent on their roster, he actually commended the Brewers for bring up talent through their system! He was just saying that currently (with the players in the system RIGHT NOW) the Cubs have a higher ranked farm system according to Baseball America, one of the most respected baseball magazines in the country. Way to pick out only what was convienent.
Oh and by the way, the Yankees have also embaressed themselves in the playoffs in the last 5 years, they have 0 rings in the time period
The funny thing is HE originally picked out what was convenient, as I originally said that our farm system has been better than the Cubs recently and that the Cubs have been better at free agent signings, so then he brought up just the current farm systems, instead of the recent products that have come up to the major leagues. Again, good try to curve the argument and "pick out only what was convENIENT.
I don't really care about the Yankees, I hate them, love the Bo Sox, but the point was, you have NO RINGS (or even World Series APPEARANCES) in 20 TIMES the 5 years that the Yankees have no rings, so congratulations. Of course you guys have been better off than the Yankees have as well.
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someone is trying to blow off steam of a sunken season!! Was the team a little overrated this year wadesworld? Expectations too high?
At least you can get excited...Braun is #4 in all-star voting!!!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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So all of your current All-Stars came up through the Chicago Cubs system I suppose. Aramis Ramirez, Derrick Lee, Jim Edmonds, Koske Fukudome, and Alfonso Soriano, I see they went through the Cubs farm system. Oh, they don't? Hmm, weird, Ben Sheets, Ryan Braun, Prince Fielder, Yovanni Gallardo, Corey Hart, Rickie Weeks, Manny Parra, and JJ Hardy, all went through the Brewers farm system. And I can guarantee you that we have 3 players in our farm system that are better than any 3 players you have in yours.
But I guess you have brought up better players through your farm system than the Brewers have recently...interesting how well the Cubs have done through their farm system, well above them Brewers
FIBs
Dude...first of all....deep breath. Also, take it easy on the FIB thing...that's as clever as us calling you a cheesehead...probably less clever actually.
Since when does it matter if a team's All-Stars all have come up through their farm system?! Who cares. While there's no denying Sheets, Fielder and Braun have perennial All-Star potential....I have appeared in the same amount of All-Star games as Braun, Gallardo, Hart, Weeks and Parra combined.
FWIW, It appears that Wood, Zambrano and Soto (Marmol deserves to be there also) are all headed to the NL All-Star squad (amongst others) barring injury or late voting changes...all came from the Cubs system.
Again, though...who cares?! It's cute that the Brewers fans are proud of their build-your-own club....and it was nice to see the Brewers finally putting some of that MLB revenue sharing money to work by locking up Braun rather than wasting it on a washed-up closer.
The whole point is when your team is worth over $640M it's probably a good idea to go out and sign some big names that are proven and give you a good chance to win....that people actually would care to see....I'm not just talking those within a 20 mile radius of Wrigley Field.
Please don't talk about how good the 2008 Brewers draft was now....
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The funny thing is HE originally picked out what was convenient, as I originally said that our farm system has been better than the Cubs recently and that the Cubs have been better at free agent signings, so then he brought up just the current farm systems, instead of the recent products that have come up to the major leagues. Again, good try to curve the argument and "pick out only what was convENIENT.
I don't really care about the Yankees, I hate them, love the Bo Sox, but the point was, you have NO RINGS (or even World Series APPEARANCES) in 20 TIMES the 5 years that the Yankees have no rings, so congratulations. Of course you guys have been better off than the Yankees have as well.
Actually you were very clearly stating that you were very pleased with the fact that the current Brewers farm system was in better shape than the Cubs here's your quote:
"but I'm very glad that we have more talent in our farm system/prospects than Felixe Pie, quite honestly."
Baseball America seems to disagree. Again, why are we talking about Farm Systems? The difference is the Cubs have the money to make moves to go get proven ballplayers.....that costs prospects...it's really not that difficult.
I'm guessing there are a few Brewers fans that would absolutely love it if they went out and signed arguably the two biggest names in the market the last two years in Soriano and Fukudome....maybe not.
Compare it to signing Dominic James out of high school versus Tommy Brice developing into a scholarship PG by the time he's a Senior...I'm funny.
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You won just as many playoff games as we did last year... And one less World Series in the last 100. Eventually, the Cubs might actually play a road series, and will come back down to earth. And I'll enjoy every moment of it.
Hilarious.....I guess you'd prefer to win a few in the NIT than lose in the first round of the NCAA also, right? I'm going to go out on a limb and say there were a handful of Brewers fans that would've traded a sweep at the hand of the Diamondbacks for an end to your 25 year playoff drought?
Maybe not....
As far as the Cubs going on the road....there are only 5 teams in baseball with winning road records....2 games below .500 is tolerable....especially with the best home record in baseball.
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someone is trying to blow off steam of a sunken season!! Was the team a little overrated this year wadesworld? Expectations too high?
At least you can get excited...Braun is #4 in all-star voting!!!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Blowing off steam? Hardly, more like having fun because I realizes it's not possible to have a legitimate conversation about the Cubs because somehow, without even making a World Series in a century, their fans view them as the premier baseball franchise in the world. At least when the Brewers fail it's blamed on the Brewers organization, not a fan who caught a foul ball that wouldn't have even been caught by their player (not to mention it was 1 pitch in a 7 game series...) A sunken season? Really? We've been hit with injuries since the 2nd week of the season and we're 4 games above .500 with the worst manager in baseball and are 4 games out of the Wild Card in JUNE! Already a sunken season? Wow. What expectations? Were we not supposed to take 3rd, behind the REDS this season?! There were no high expectations this year.
And what IS exciting is that we locked up a player for 8 years who since coming up to the big leagues has been a top 5 player. So yes, WOOOOOOOOOO
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Dude...first of all....deep breath. Also, take it easy on the FIB thing...that's as clever as us calling you a cheesehead...probably less clever actually.
Since when does it matter if a team's All-Stars all have come up through their farm system?! Who cares. While there's no denying Sheets, Fielder and Braun have perennial All-Star potential....I have appeared in the same amount of All-Star games as Braun, Gallardo, Hart, Weeks and Parra combined.
FWIW, It appears that Wood, Zambrano and Soto (Marmol deserves to be there also) are all headed to the NL All-Star squad (amongst others) barring injury or late voting changes...all came from the Cubs system.
Again, though...who cares?! It's cute that the Brewers fans are proud of their build-your-own club....and it was nice to see the Brewers finally putting some of that MLB revenue sharing money to work by locking up Braun rather than wasting it on a washed-up closer.
The whole point is when your team is worth over $640M it's probably a good idea to go out and sign some big names that are proven and give you a good chance to win....that people actually would care to see....I'm not just talking those within a 20 mile radius of Wrigley Field.
Please don't talk about how good the 2008 Brewers draft was now....
Go ahead, call me a cheesehead. FIB might not be clever, but at least it means something. Cheesehead? Really? Also why are you on a Marquette forum then...obviously you have some sort of cheesehead in you to root for a Wisconsin team. Why do all Chicago kids come up to Marquette for college and then complain CONSTANTLY about how much Wisconsin sucks. GO TO SCHOOL IN ILLINOIS THEN, PLEASE! If it sucks so bad don't come here for school
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Go ahead, call me a cheesehead. FIB might not be clever, but at least it means something. Cheesehead? Really? Also why are you on a Marquette forum then...obviously you have some sort of cheesehead in you to root for a Wisconsin team. Why do all Chicago kids come up to Marquette for college and then complain CONSTANTLY about how much Wisconsin sucks. GO TO SCHOOL IN ILLINOIS THEN, PLEASE! If it sucks so bad don't come here for school
Wow. Honestly man...get worked up. It's really very simple....I'm on this very well run forum because I attended Marquette University and I have an affection for everything related to Marquette basketball. As you can see, this very well run forum offers its users "The Superbar" where one can weigh in on a variety of non-basketball topics. Since I am from the metropolitan Chicago area (similar to about 40% of Marquette students) I take note and interest in those topics which may involve one of my beloved Chicago sports teams...namely the Cubs, Bears and Bulls....so you can imagine how a thread entitled "The Offical Cubs & Brewers Pissing Match" may have caught my eye.
I attended Marquette to receive a great education while also living away from home in a comfortable setting...so I decided on Chicago's northernmost suburb.....and immediately moved back to Chicago.
Does that answer your question?
Now, back to baseball please.....
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Now, back to baseball please.....
OK serious question, off topic but just wondering: Who is better, the Red Sox or the Cubs? And that's not just for MarquetteFan to answer, I'm asking everyone.
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And one less World Series in the last 100.
When did the Brewers go to the World Series?
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Wadesworld, with all the anger you direct towards " FIBS" perhaps you should consider changing your username. Isn't Wade a FIB? And, wasn't Wayne's World based on a character from Aurora, ILLINOIS?
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And, wasn't Wayne's World based on a character from Aurora, ILLINOIS?
Which is a suburb of Chicago, EXCELLENT!
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Wadesworld, with all the anger you direct towards " FIBS" perhaps you should consider changing your username. Isn't Wade a FIB? And, wasn't Wayne's World based on a character from Aurora, ILLINOIS?
No, Wade no longer lives in Illinois. He's also not an ignorant b!tch, but he is freaking good. And it's more about Wade than Wayne's World, kind of indifferent about that movie...
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When did the Brewers go to the World Series?
1982, 74 years after the Cubs last went to it.
Again, as we are "back to baseball," who is better, the Red Sox or the Cubs? I just want to know what everyone thinks on here. For the record, I believe the Red Sox are a lot better, so there's my answer.
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And it's more about Wade than Wayne's World, kind of indifferent about that movie...
But how do you feel about the sketch on which the movie(s) were based?
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1982, 74 years after the Cubs last went to it.
Again, as we are "back to baseball," who is better, the Red Sox or the Cubs? I just want to know what everyone thinks on here. For the record, I believe the Red Sox are a lot better, so there's my answer.
Shocking. It's too early to say one team is better than another right now....with a healthy Soriano and an extra arm (and potentially another bat) that we'll undoubtedly add by the trading deadling I like our chances.
The Cubs last went to the World Series in 1945....not that we're proud of that of course. Although we have been to playoffs 5 times since the Brewers were there last....progress. Not great, but progress.
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Shocking. It's too early to say one team is better than another right now....with a healthy Soriano and an extra arm (and potentially another bat) that we'll undoubtedly add by the trading deadling I like our chances.
The Cubs last went to the World Series in 1945....not that we're proud of that of course. Although we have been to playoffs 5 times since the Brewers were there last....progress. Not great, but progress.
Fair enough. I just really don't think anybody's close to the Red Sox at this point in the season. It's June, so a lot can and will happen by the end of the year, including injuries, trades, call-ups, send-downs, etc. so somebody may catch them, but they are just unbelievable. I think they're the best team in baseball without a healthy David Ortiz, and if he can come back healthy it just makes them that much better.
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One thing Boston has going for it, though I think the Rays top the league in it, is speed. Speed never slumps!
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The Cubs have scored more runs than the Red Sox (389 vs. 376) in three less games played and also rely less on the long ball (87 for the Sox vs. 76 for the Cubs). The Cubs also win BA (.282 vs .279), OBP (.360 vs .355), and only slightly lose OPS (.804 vs .800). It seems to me that their offenses are essentially a push right now. Over the course of the season though, I'll give the advantage to the Red Sox. However, the comparison isn't exactly equal since Red Sox play with a DH in Ortiz who accounts for a significant offensive threat. I know he's on the DL right now, but it's a pretty big advantage when someone as worthless of a fielder as Ortiz is still allowed to hit. The Red Sox get to play with both Youkilis and Ortiz - that's a pretty good deal for them. I know all of us can agree that the DH is a terrible rule.
The Cubs also win team ERA with a 3.60 ERA compared to the Red Sox 3.84.
The Cubs starting pitching is slightly worse than the Red Sox with a 3.81 ERA for the Cubs' starters and a 3.76 for the Sox. The Sox also have a slight advantage in BAA - .240 vs .244. The biggest advantage is of course that the Sox starting pitching is eating up a lot more innings than the Cubs - 445 vs. 413. - Advantage: Red Sox
As a Cubs fan, this is my biggest concern with the Cubs this year - The starters are not eating up innings and Lou has been using the bullpen quite a lot; Marmol in particular. It's become a running joke between my brothers and I that any time something isn't going well for the Cubs pitching, Lou calls the pen and tells them to get Marmol up. I was particularly bothered during the win the other night in Toronto when Lou felt the need to bring Marmol in with a 7 run lead. The kid is fairly young and pitching his first full season in the majors. I think he's going to have a case of dead arm come September if he keeps pitching at this rate.
Breaking it down further, the Cubs have the much better bullpen with a bullpen ERA of 3.24 compared to the Red Sox 4.00 bullpen ERA. The Cubs bullpen also has the Red Sox in BA against - .240 vs .253. The Cubs also win the K/9 battle in the bullpen - .92 K/9 for the Cubs relievers compared to the Red Sox .86 K/9. My sole reason for including that stat is because it's obviously especially important for relievers as they are often entering the game with runners on and when strikeouts are needed at times. - Advantage: Cubs
The Red Sox are a slightly better fielding team having committed two less errors than the Cubs and have a slightly better fielding percentage (.984 vs .982).
Looking deeper though, Lee, Theriot, Edmonds/Johnson, Fukudome and whoever is playing LF for the Cubs all have greater RFs than their Red Sox counterparts. Soto also throws out a greater percentages of runners than Varitek. So I would say that fielding is essentially a push as well.
Now, are the Red Sox better than the Cubs? Not right now they aren't according to their records. However, overall I think the Red Sox are the better team even though their record probably won't show it since they have to consistently go up against the Rays and Yankees this season. That being said, I think the Cubs are going to consistently be a top five team in the MLB this year - something that unfortunately will not be happening for the Brewers.
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Now, are the Red Sox better than the Cubs? Not right now they aren't according to their records. However, overall I think the Red Sox are the better team even though their record probably won't show it since they have to consistently go up against the Rays and Yankees this season. That being said, I think the Cubs are going to consistently be a top five team in the MLB this year - something that unfortunately will not be happening for the Brewers.
I understand looking at it the way you did, but as you say here, they play against different opponents. The Cubs not only play the NL Central much more, but the AL is much tougher than the NL as a whole. I think it is much tougher to be 20 games above .500 in the AL than it is to be 20 games above .500 in the NL. I will admit that 20 games above .500, in either league, at any point in the season, is quite impressive, especially by mid June, but I think if you switch the teams' schedules (Red Sox play the Cubs' schedule and Cubs play the Red Sox's schedule), I think you're looking at the Red Sox being 20 games over .500 and the Cubs being in 2nd place in their division (behind the Rays). I think to compare an NL team to an AL team (which is hard to do as it is) you have to look at player by player rather than stat by stat. Overall I think the Red Sox are better, especially considering they have dominated the Rays this year and the Cubs lost to them (I understand 1 game, or even 1 series, can be a fluke, so we'll see how the rest of the series goes). I don't think you can decide who is a better team just looking at records, especially comparing teams in different divisions and especially different leagues, as they do not play the same opponents the same amount of times. You're probably right, the Cubs will probably make it at least to the NLCS this season (top 4 in the MLB) and the Brewers will probably not, but I really believe if the Brewers fire Ned Yost (which I don't think they will this year, unfortunately) with enough time to do damage, that they will win the Wild Card. Unfortunately, if they do win the Wild Card, they would most likely play the Phillies, and I'm not very optimistic about beating them in a 5 game series.
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I will admit that 20 games above .500, in either league, at any point in the season, is quite impressive, especially by mid June, but I think if you switch the teams' schedules (Red Sox play the Cubs' schedule and Cubs play the Red Sox's schedule), I think you're looking at the Red Sox being 20 games over .500 and the Cubs being in 2nd place in their division (behind the Rays). I think to compare an NL team to an AL team (which is hard to do as it is) you have to look at player by player rather than stat by stat. Overall I think the Red Sox are better, especially considering they have dominated the Rays this year and the Cubs lost to them (I understand 1 game, or even 1 series, can be a fluke, so we'll see how the rest of the series goes).
So you believe the Cubs would be in second place to the Rays, but then argue that in order to compare an AL team to a NL team, you have to compare them on a position by position basis? The player vs. player comparison of the Cubs vs. the Rays would not even be close. Also, you compare the Red Sox nine games against the Rays to the Cubs one run loss against them (against their ace no less)? Really? Are the Cardinals better than the Rays because they won their series against them?
It seems like there is some seriously flawed logic going on in your head.
Also, a little paragraph structure in your posts would help. I'm not trying to be a dick there - they are seriously hard to read.
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Wadesworld I've been reading this thread since it started early in the season. In my humblest of opinions, you are ruining it. Please chill out. Even just a little.
Also, we've been to the World Series 8 times in the past 100 years. Get your facts straight before you talk smack repeatedly.
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As a Brewer fan, and one of the original Brewer fans on this thread, I agree, wadesworld, you are just shouting random facts(that are sometimes false), that just clogging this thread up. It's a pissing match, not a bitching match.
Also, liking the Red Sox when you live in Wisconsin is a lot worse than a guy from Illinois enjoying Cubs baseball... hey, when did "the nation" let you jump that bandwagon?
Is there anything worse in sports then ESPN calling the Red Sox "the nation" over and over, most annoying thing, even more annoying then a Fukudome headband.
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As a Brewer fan, and one of the original Brewer fans on this thread, I agree, wadesworld, you are just shouting random facts(that are sometimes false), that just clogging this thread up. It's a pissing match, not a bitching match.
Also, liking the Red Sox when you live in Wisconsin is a lot worse than a guy from Illinois enjoying Cubs baseball... hey, when did "the nation" let you jump that bandwagon?
Is there anything worse in sports then ESPN calling the Red Sox "the nation" over and over, most annoying thing, even more annoying then a Fukudome headband.
A pissing match and a bitching match are different Tom? And when did I ever say that the Illinois people can't like the Cubs baseball? Also, my grandparents are from Boston and I've liked them, and other Boston sports franchises, for my whole life, I am thankful I was "allowed to jump on the bandwagon."
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So you believe the Cubs would be in second place to the Rays, but then argue that in order to compare an AL team to a NL team, you have to compare them on a position by position basis? The player vs. player comparison of the Cubs vs. the Rays would not even be close. Also, you compare the Red Sox nine games against the Rays to the Cubs one run loss against them (against their ace no less)? Really? Are the Cardinals better than the Rays because they won their series against them?
It seems like there is some seriously flawed logic going on in your head.
Also, a little paragraph structure in your posts would help. I'm not trying to be a dick there - they are seriously hard to read.
It wouldn't be close? Respectfully disagree. Also, the Cubs have now lost twice in a row to them...but I DID say that it is hard to even come up with any conclusions based on just one regular season series, which you would have seen had you not picked out only what works for your argument.
I pretty much said throughout that paragraph that the Cubs are very impressive right now, but of course Cubs fans look at the part where I say other teams may be better and think that's putting the Cubs down. The Red Sox are the defending World Champions and are at top of the toughest division in baseball...saying they are better than the Cubs should (and would to any person who ISN'T a Cubs fan) NOT be that big of a stretch. It's DEBATABLE, and I'm on here DEBATING about it, and having a TON of fun doing it because it's not even possible to get a legitimate DEBATE about Cubs vs. any other team out of the Cubs fans.
Sorry, I didn't know I was writing my English 1 final paper an muscoop.com.
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Well ladies and gentlemen, I HATE to do this to you because I KNOW you'll miss me dearly, but I'm off to California in 9 hours so I won't be on here at all for the next week, and then I won't really feel like reading any of what is said so I'm done on this thread...
LET'S GO WARRIORS!
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Since you're off to Cali and won't be reading up on the thread, I'm not going to take the time to do the in-depth comparison. I will say though that I don't see how you can say it'd be extremely close. All you need to do is ask yourself who you would rather have on your team at each position. The only player from the Rays that I would take over their Cubs counterpart is Upton. I'll be conservative and say that Soto and Navarro are a push (if you want to talk about "career years", Navarro hit .227 last year, and .274 through the minors). I can understand taking Iwamura over DeRosa too and have really liked what I've seen of Iwamura, but give me DeRosa's versatility. Longoria is going to be great too, but right now, no one would take him over Ramirez. Kazmir is a stud too, but I think he is a push with Zambrano (try to strip away your Brewer hatred for Zambrano for a second... all of us Cubs fans know that every fan of every team that isn't the Cubs has to hate Big Z. I probably would too if I wasn't a Cubs fan).
Also, we all can agree that ESPN has a significant ESPN bias, correct? Well they've believed the Cubs are the best team in the MLB for four straight weeks now. I know, who cares about the rankings. I agree with everyone about that. However, these are guys who watch and analyze baseball for a living, usually with Yanks and Sox sunglasses on, and right now, they believe the Cubs are the best team in baseball. It's clear that us "FIBs" aren't the only people believing the Cubs are amongst the best in baseball and just as good as the Red Sox.
And no one was asking you to write your English 1 paper. Just breaking things into paragraphs generally makes things a lot easier to read.
Enjoy Cali. This pissing match will still be alive and well when you get back.
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Since you're off to Cali and won't be reading up on the thread, I'm not going to take the time to do the in-depth comparison. I will say though that I don't see how you can say it'd be extremely close. All you need to do is ask yourself who you would rather have on your team at each position. The only player from the Rays that I would take over their Cubs counterpart is Upton. I'll be conservative and say that Soto and Navarro are a push (if you want to talk about "career years", Navarro hit .227 last year, and .274 through the minors). I can understand taking Iwamura over DeRosa too and have really liked what I've seen of Iwamura, but give me DeRosa's versatility. Longoria is going to be great too, but right now, no one would take him over Ramirez. Kazmir is a stud too, but I think he is a push with Zambrano (try to strip away your Brewer hatred for Zambrano for a second... all of us Cubs fans know that every fan of every team that isn't the Cubs has to hate Big Z. I probably would too if I wasn't a Cubs fan).
Also, we all can agree that ESPN has a significant ESPN bias, correct? Well they've believed the Cubs are the best team in the MLB for four straight weeks now. I know, who cares about the rankings. I agree with everyone about that. However, these are guys who watch and analyze baseball for a living, usually with Yanks and Sox sunglasses on, and right now, they believe the Cubs are the best team in baseball. It's clear that us "FIBs" aren't the only people believing the Cubs are amongst the best in baseball and just as good as the Red Sox.
And no one was asking you to write your English 1 paper. Just breaking things into paragraphs generally makes things a lot easier to read.
Enjoy Cali. This pissing match will still be alive and well when you get back.
I don't really have the time or the motivation to look in depth about the comparisons between players on each team, but fair enough. I will say, though, that Zambrano is amazing, as is Kazmir. I HATE Zambrano, but he has unbelievable stuff. If he could control his emotions a bit more he'd be the best pitcher in baseball every year, and he's close every year as it is. I admit good players when I see them, I have no problem doing that, I just don't like all players.
I really, honestly, couldn't care less about what espn.com considers when it comes to their rankings. They also do their rankings largely on the "what have you done for me now." Just because they have you ranked #1 in the Power Rankings does not mean that they think you are going to win the World Series, they only believe you are playing the best baseball at this point, which you are. I never said I don't believe that the Cubs are among the best in baseball, but I will say I'm not sure they have as good of a chance as the Red Sox. If you look at my post a little while ago, I said that the Cubs more than likely WILL finish top 5 in baseball, because they more than likely WILL go to the NLCS, at WORST. Where in those last 2 sentences do you see me saying that the Cubs are not one of the best teams in baseball?
I will do that from now on.
And thank you, I will enjoy it.
LET'S GO WARRIORS (at least we can all, hopefully, agree on that).
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too bad for the Cubbies he's going to be out for a bit it sounds like. Time for the Brewers to close the gap w/ Zambrano out for now.
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too bad for the Cubbies he's going to be out for a bit it sounds like. Time for the Brewers to close the gap w/ Zambrano out for now.
Name your sources, I haven't seen anything come out yet.
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http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/06/hart-hit-in-hea.html (http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/06/hart-hit-in-hea.html)
Rob - Here is an update from the Trib. Looks like even if the MRI doesn't show anything, Big Z still will be missing his next few starts.
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just going off a hunch. It seems like a bit unnecessary to have him fly back early when they are coming back to Chicago after tonight's game to play the Chi-sox. Dunno how often that would be done for simple 'shoulder stiffness' unless Lou or one of the team trainers thought it was more serious than that and deserved immediate attention and couldn't wait a day or two especially with an extended home series coming up, and I count at the White Sox in there since it's basically no travel.
We'll see what the MRI reveals tomorrow.
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My sources comment was denial driven...i want to wait to get the official news! I think he won't miss more than 2 starts.
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just going off a hunch. It seems like a bit unnecessary to have him fly back early when they are coming back to Chicago after tonight's game to play the Chi-sox. Dunno how often that would be done for simple 'shoulder stiffness' unless Lou or one of the team trainers thought it was more serious than that and deserved immediate attention and couldn't wait a day or two especially with an extended home series coming up, and I count at the White Sox in there since it's basically no travel.
We'll see what the MRI reveals tomorrow.
Not trying to start anything, but it actually makes sense to send Z back early regardless of how serious it is. If he's hurt and they want to get a look at it, there's not point in not sending him back. He won't be doing anything besides sitting on the bench for the next few days anyways, so you might as well get it looked at as soon as possible. Unfortunately, I'm not too optimistic about this one. Hopefully everything turns out OK and it's only a few starts.
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I understand looking at it the way you did, but as you say here, they play against different opponents. The Cubs not only play the NL Central much more, but the AL is much tougher than the NL as a whole. I think it is much tougher to be 20 games above .500 in the AL than it is to be 20 games above .500 in the NL. I will admit that 20 games above .500, in either league, at any point in the season, is quite impressive, especially by mid June, but I think if you switch the teams' schedules (Red Sox play the Cubs' schedule and Cubs play the Red Sox's schedule), I think you're looking at the Red Sox being 20 games over .500 and the Cubs being in 2nd place in their division (behind the Rays). I think to compare an NL team to an AL team (which is hard to do as it is) you have to look at player by player rather than stat by stat. Overall I think the Red Sox are better, especially considering they have dominated the Rays this year and the Cubs lost to them (I understand 1 game, or even 1 series, can be a fluke, so we'll see how the rest of the series goes). I don't think you can decide who is a better team just looking at records, especially comparing teams in different divisions and especially different leagues, as they do not play the same opponents the same amount of times. You're probably right, the Cubs will probably make it at least to the NLCS this season (top 4 in the MLB) and the Brewers will probably not, but I really believe if the Brewers fire Ned Yost (which I don't think they will this year, unfortunately) with enough time to do damage, that they will win the Wild Card. Unfortunately, if they do win the Wild Card, they would most likely play the Phillies, and I'm not very optimistic about beating them in a 5 game series.
In a previous post you said the cubs would be no better than 3rd in any division in the AL. Now you are saying that the Cubs would be in second place in the AL East... the toughest division in the AL
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http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=schoenfield/080620&sportCat=mlb
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so is or is not Bartman to blame? he should not be brought up in this article if he isn't like many "true Cubs fans" say and yet to become a better Cubs fan, one must know the things listed in this article and there he is...interesting.
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As a Cubs fan, nothing bothers me more than when people bring up Bartman. Neither I personally, nor have any other Cubs fan that I am friends with, have ever blamed Steve Bartman. And the people that I do know that have blamed Bartman are some of the dumbest people I know (not just in baseball terms). I feel that Brewers fans and White Sox fans who point to Cubs fans blaming Bartman are exaggerating a bit, because any knowledgeable fan would not blame another for a loss. Yes, the Cubs have a good amount of d-bag fans; we've established that. However, that's true of all teams. Case in point - at a Brewers game last year, I witnessed a Brewers fan talking crap to the people around him and acting like a genuine jackass while double-fisting Mike's Hard Lemonade - pretty pathetic if you ask me. That being said, I'm not going to say that all Brewers fans are jackasses who drink Mike's Hard, but there certainly are some that are like that, much like there are some moronic Cubs fans who blame Bartman. I think all of us know that those people are in a minority though.
And let's be serious. Alex Gonzalez booting that DP ball right after the Bartman incident was the straw that broke the camel's back.
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Sign #1 the Brewers are finally playing well-
The pissing match thread comes back.
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As a Cubs fan, nothing bothers me more than when people bring up Bartman. Neither I personally, nor have any other Cubs fan that I am friends with, have ever blamed Steve Bartman. And the people that I do know that have blamed Bartman are some of the dumbest people I know (not just in baseball terms). I feel that Brewers fans and White Sox fans who point to Cubs fans blaming Bartman are exaggerating a bit, because any knowledgeable fan would not blame another for a loss. Yes, the Cubs have a good amount of d-bag fans; we've established that. However, that's true of all teams. Case in point - at a Brewers game last year, I witnessed a Brewers fan talking crap to the people around him and acting like a genuine jackass while double-fisting Mike's Hard Lemonade - pretty pathetic if you ask me. That being said, I'm not going to say that all Brewers fans are jackasses who drink Mike's Hard, but there certainly are some that are like that, much like there are some moronic Cubs fans who blame Bartman. I think all of us know that those people are in a minority though.
And let's be serious. Alex Gonzalez booting that DP ball right after the Bartman incident was the straw that broke the camel's back.
I agree abt Gonzalez botching that, but why does an article telling ppl how to be 'better' fans even acknowledge Bartman?? hehe
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I agree abt Gonzalez botching that, but why does an article telling ppl how to be 'better' fans even acknowledge Bartman?? hehe
Why? Because some writers and journalists are morons. "Stirring the pot" sells in the media world. Why not make fun of a bunch of Cubs fans, that way, the fans who hate the Cubs will read and laugh about our article and the Cubs fans will come over to complain about our article. It's really not that hard.
Also, it's Page 2 and is thus satirical. And his archive of articles shows that he writes about the Red Sox QUITE a lot.
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Dan Shaugnessy used to write a lot about the Curse for the Red Sox. Bill Simmons complained about it nonstop. Just because it's brought up doesn't mean fans believe it.
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In a previous post you said the cubs would be no better than 3rd in any division in the AL. Now you are saying that the Cubs would be in second place in the AL East... the toughest division in the AL
Not quite, I said the Cubs would be 2nd in the AL East if you take the Red Sox and put them in the NL Central, so 3rd if you left the Red Sox in there. Still no better than third in that division. And while you can't make many sure observations about two teams after one regular season series, I don't think anybody can claim that the Rays are not arguably better than the Cubs at this point after getting swept, and that the Red Sox are not better than the Rays.
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=Iub80dJ5nOQ
Don't look now!
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Little early for "choke" proclamation...
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Little early for "choke" proclamation...
Yeah that was confusing...I didn't mean to say they are choking, I just liked the song and then as another note was saying don't look now because the division isn't quite over like some (including me) thought it was about 2 weeks ago.
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I agree it's far from over in the central division. It's a three team race between cardinals, brewers, and cubs. Cubs pitching is faltering as of late.
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Hey Chubby fans, where are ya now??? Medicating yourself with Old Style that Rich Harden will be your savior?
Just hope Z stays away from the computer these last couple months, Dempster won't have to pitch on the road, and Wood's one ligament holding his elbow together stays intact
Bring it on North Siders!
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Hey Chubby fans, where are ya now??? Medicating yourself with Old Style that Rich Harden will be your savior?
Just hope Z stays away from the computer these last couple months, Dempster won't have to pitch on the road, and Wood's one ligament holding his elbow together stays intact
Bring it on North Siders!
I'm right here, are as many Cub fans. I'm glad Milwaukee finally decided to play with the big dogs and sign someone. I am happy that the Brewers realize this is their last chance for a run with this roster for the next 2-3 years, too bad it has come with the Cubs and Cardinals playing extremely well.
Myself, along with many experts will agree the Brewers just got a whole lot better. However, the Brewers are still not the better team. 1-3 Starters the Brewers are better. Pitchers 1-10, it's still the Cubs. Milwaukee has a great playoff threat at 1-2.
Not to mention the all-around superior and far deeper offense that has not been relying on streaky performances and solo home runs, the Cubs are still sitting good. I'm sure Jim Hendry will also cash in some of the farm system and get us a 1-2 starter before the trade deadline. I hope it's Rich Harden as we can pick up his $7 Million option at the end of season, and his stuff has been as good if not better than CC this year when healthy. Z-Harden-Dempster, I'll take over CC-Sheets-Suppan/Parra.
Also, reinko, let's not talk about Z or Wood's injuries. We all know Ben Sheets will not finish this season without another DL stint, which is why the CC trade had to be made. Unlike the Cubs, the Brewers season hinges on their 'ace' Ben Sheets.
So my friend, no medication is needed, no savior is needed, we are just awaiting another piece.
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I'm right here, are as many Cub fans. I'm glad Milwaukee finally decided to play with the big dogs and sign someone. I am happy that the Brewers realize this is their last chance for a run with this roster for the next 2-3 years, too bad it has come with the Cubs and Cardinals playing extremely well.
Myself, along with many experts will agree the Brewers just got a whole lot better. However, the Brewers are still not the better team. 1-3 Starters the Brewers are better. Pitchers 1-10, it's still the Cubs. Milwaukee has a great playoff threat at 1-2.
Not to mention the all-around superior and far deeper offense that has not been relying on streaky performances and solo home runs, the Cubs are still sitting good. I'm sure Jim Hendry will also cash in some of the farm system and get us a 1-2 starter before the trade deadline. I hope it's Rich Harden as we can pick up his $7 Million option at the end of season, and his stuff has been as good if not better than CC this year when healthy. Z-Harden-Dempster, I'll take over CC-Sheets-Suppan/Parra.
Also, reinko, let's not talk about Z or Wood's injuries. We all know Ben Sheets will not finish this season without another DL stint, which is why the CC trade had to be made. Unlike the Cubs, the Brewers season hinges on their 'ace' Ben Sheets.
So my friend, no medication is needed, no savior is needed, we are just awaiting another piece.
Very nicely stated, PTM. Congrats to the Brewers on picking up CC, I hope he helps you take the Wild Card from St Louis.
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I hope it's Rich Harden as we can pick up his $7 Million option at the end of season, and his stuff has been as good if not better than CC this year when healthy.
That's a bigger if than Sheets.
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That's a bigger if than Sheets.
Really? I mean when I think injuries I think in this order: Prior, Sheets, Wood. Then I curse Dusty Baker.
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Really? I mean when I think injuries I think in this order: Prior, Sheets, Wood. Then I curse Dusty Baker.
Harden has only had one season that was not injury riddled and that was 2004, his rookie year. Other than that, he has had long stints on the dl.
2005 - missed a month with an oblique strain
2006 - spent almost the entire season on the dl
2007 - almost made it out of April before being put on the dl for the season
2008 - placed on the dl after one start.
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Yo PTM...you might want to check that order regarding injuries
Lets Compare some Career Stats:
Combined Innings: Wood, 1196 Sheets, 1346
Career Starts: Wood, 178 Sheets, 207
Wins: Wood, 76 Sheets, 83
Oh yeah, Wood also entered the league in 1998 and Benny came in 2001
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Wood has been healthy for several whole seasons > Ben Sheets.
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Doug Melvin stated on Mike and Mike in The Morning that the Brewers might have Gallardo back before season's end and I'd say that a 1-2-3 punch of CC, Sheets, and Gallardo is as good as any other team in the league.
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Doug Melvin stated on Mike and Mike in The Morning that the Brewers might have Gallardo back before season's end and I'd say that a 1-2-3 punch of CC, Sheets, and Gallardo is as good as any other team in the league.
I'm willing to bet that Gallardo will not be back. If they rush him, and pull a Dusty Baker it will be the death of him.
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I'm willing to bet that Gallardo will not be back. If they rush him, and pull a Dusty Baker it will be the death of him.
I'm with you on this one, and frankly I hope he doesn't rush to try to get back on the field.
And Mosarsour: don't forget Parra. Pretty damn good 1-4.
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Wood has been healthy for several whole seasons > Ben Sheets.
Really? In 3 less seasons:
Seasons started over 30 games
Sheets: 3
Wood: 2
Seasons started over 20 games:
Sheets: 6
Wood: 6
Seasons unable to make at least half his starts
Sheets: 0
Wood: 4 (excluding this season obviously)
Total Innings Pitched
Sheets: 1346
Wood: 1196
What was your point? Obviously, its tough to compare them currently since Sheets is pitching like a Cy-Young caliber starter and Wood has been forced into the bullpen to ease the load on his arm but is doing a pretty good job as the closer.
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Doug Melvin stated on Mike and Mike in The Morning that the Brewers might have Gallardo back before season's end and I'd say that a 1-2-3 punch of CC, Sheets, and Gallardo is as good as any other team in the league.
Hmm yes, almost as good as Zambrano-Dempster-Harden.
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Hmm yes, almost as good as Zambrano-Dempster-Harden.
I'll take Sheets, CC, and Gallardo/Parro over those 3 but its real close. Of course, the real race now is to see who gets hurt first: Sheets or Harden. My bet is Harden.
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I'm willing to bet that Gallardo will not be back. If they rush him, and pull a Dusty Baker it will be the death of him.
Here's an article from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Gallardo return a possibility
By Tom Haudricourt
Tuesday, Jul 8 2008, 11:16 PM
Now that the Brewers have added CC Sabathia, how tough would they be in the final weeks if young right-hander Yovani Gallardo returns from his knee injury? Gallardo suffered a torn ACL in his right knee in Chicago on May 1 and was presumed lost for the season.
But Gallardo and the Brewers still have hope - albeit it slim - that he could return sometime in September. He has not begun to throw yet but is making nice progress in the rehabilitation program on the knee.
When Gallardo tore cartilage in his left knee before the start of spring training, he returned to action on April 20. Gallardo was in his third start when he tore his ACL in a collision at first base.
"I would like to pitch before the end of the year," Gallardo told me tonight. "That's what I'm shooting for. If I'm not ready, it's not worth taking the risk. But everything's going good.
"I'm going to do everything possible to stay on the right track. I'm not counting on it but hopefully I can come back (in September). That's my goal."
Asked if he thought Gallardo would pitch again in 2008, general manager Doug Melvin said, "I guess it would be a bonus if we got him. It would be a nice bonus."
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So now that we've spent so much time bashing Sheets for being injury prone, are we going to waffle since Harden is a Cub and has a worse injury history than Sheets? Any double standard on the way?
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http://wisconsinsportsblogs.blogspot.com/2008/07/i-need-my-teams-players-to-hate-all.html
About what I expect.
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http://wisconsinsportsblogs.blogspot.com/2008/07/i-need-my-teams-players-to-hate-all.html
About what I expect.
I don't think many people would be surprised by that at all. I kind of expect those players to have a mutual respect for each other off the field. It's like all good rivalries...the fans hate the other team's players and the other team's fans and on the field it can get heated, but off the field and after the games there is, in most cases, a mutual respect. But if it makes you feel better, then congratulations, the Brewers players think the Cubs players are nice guys.
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I was referring to the actual thought that players have to hate each other. And then the comments after the jump.
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Asked if he thought Gallardo would pitch again in 2008, general manager Doug Melvin said, "I guess it would be a bonus if we got him. It would be a nice bonus."
0% Chance of him pitching for the Brew Crew this year.
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I'm right here, are as many Cub fans. I'm glad Milwaukee finally decided to play with the big dogs and sign someone. I am happy that the Brewers realize this is their last chance for a run with this roster for the next 2-3 years, too bad it has come with the Cubs and Cardinals playing extremely well.
Myself, along with many experts will agree the Brewers just got a whole lot better. However, the Brewers are still not the better team. 1-3 Starters the Brewers are better. Pitchers 1-10, it's still the Cubs. Milwaukee has a great playoff threat at 1-2.
Not to mention the all-around superior and far deeper offense that has not been relying on streaky performances and solo home runs, the Cubs are still sitting good. I'm sure Jim Hendry will also cash in some of the farm system and get us a 1-2 starter before the trade deadline. I hope it's Rich Harden as we can pick up his $7 Million option at the end of season, and his stuff has been as good if not better than CC this year when healthy. Z-Harden-Dempster, I'll take over CC-Sheets-Suppan/Parra.
Also, reinko, let's not talk about Z or Wood's injuries. We all know Ben Sheets will not finish this season without another DL stint, which is why the CC trade had to be made. Unlike the Cubs, the Brewers season hinges on their 'ace' Ben Sheets.
So my friend, no medication is needed, no savior is needed, we are just awaiting another piece.
You make it sound like the Cubs are 15 games up in the Division. Last time I checked (this morning, barring some huge typo) it's a 4 game division lead. If they are that far superior and more deep with their offense, their 1-3 and 1-10 pitchers are all better than the Brewers, how come it's still a tight race? We sure don't have an advantage in managing, so that should make an even bigger spread. Something must be happening. And you seriously would take Z-Harden-Dumpster over Sheets-Sabathia-Parra? I think we've seen that CC, when given run support, is one of the top 5 starters in the major leagues. That's why when all the Cubs fans were pointing out his 6-8 record with Cleveland I just laughed because it shows how little they look into things seeing has in 11 of his 18 starts there he got 2 runs or less scored for him. Sheets and Z are a push, and to say either 1 is clearly better is just flat out ignorant. Sabathia is definitely better than Harden as we have seen with his time with the Brewers (he also has a home run and a double with them, to go with the home run he hit with the Indians in inter-league play). Dumpster and Parra are pretty even as well. I'll take our 1-3 starters any day of the week. I'll take your bullpen any day of the week.
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Shocking news! Kerry Wood to the DL
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3498058
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It would be just to open a roster spot. He hasn't seen game time since the 11th meaning he would be back by thursday or friday. So not a big deal really.
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Shocking news! Kerry Wood to the DL
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3498058
Classy....does that make you happy?
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Does it personally make me happy that Kerry Wood has a blister on his right hand? Not really.
But if you read the previous debate about who is more injury-prone, Woods or Sheets, then in the middle of said debate Woods develops a boo-boo on his hand and his forced out. That gives me a chuckle.
And '94 get off the high horse. Don't tell me you have never felt a little enjoyment when you hear of an injury to a player on a rival team.
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I believe it was sheets last year that took a small DL stint because of a blister.
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I believe it was sheets last year that took a small DL stint because of a blister.
Yup, but that was last year and this is now. Not to mention we finally have someone to give Rickie Weeks a scare, so maybe we'll get some guys on base for Braun and Fielder for once. And this race is down to 3 games...
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Does it personally make me happy that Kerry Wood has a blister on his right hand? Not really.
But if you read the previous debate about who is more injury-prone, Woods or Sheets, then in the middle of said debate Woods develops a boo-boo on his hand and his forced out. That gives me a chuckle.
And '94 get off the high horse. Don't tell me you have never felt a little enjoyment when you hear of an injury to a player on a rival team.
karma is a bitch...
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Yup, but that was last year and this is now. Not to mention we finally have someone to give Rickie Weeks a scare, so maybe we'll get some guys on base for Braun and Fielder for once. And this race is down to 3 games...
Remember the last time our lead was that slim? Oh yeah, you dropped down to six games back. And since you're playing STL, it'll happen.
My favorite part of this 'race' is that for Brewers fans this is it, no more racing after this season. The Cubs will simply reload next year, and with new owners.
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Remember the last time our lead was that slim? Oh yeah, you dropped down to six games back. And since you're playing STL, it'll happen.
My favorite part of this 'race' is that for Brewers fans this is it, no more racing after this season. The Cubs will simply reload next year, and with new owners.
Yeah maybe next year is your year...wait, I think you've been saying that for 100 years now.
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PTM,
Wadesworld is correct, this is the brewers year...to have back to back winning seasons!!
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Yeah maybe next year is your year...wait, I think you've been saying that for 100 years now.
Well, unless marqptm is 101 years old, I doubt he's been saying anything for 100 years now. Last I checked, the Pilots, er, Brewers don't have too many World Championship banners hanging either.
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PTM,
Wadesworld is correct, this is the brewers year...to have back to back winning seasons!!
Accurate. And it's the Cubs year to win back-to-back World Series? Not quite. What I personally find funny when PTM says "The Cubs will simply reload next year, and with new owners," usually when people talk about a team just "reloading" they are talking about a team that continually reaches the "promised land" for that sport. For college basketball, it's the Final Four. For college football, it's a BCS Bowl. For the NFL, it's the Super Bowl. For the NBA, it's the NBA Finals. For the MLB, it's...the NLDS? Congratulations Cubs fans, keep "reloading" into the NLDS (which you don't even make every year, so how is that even reloading?) Does anybody honestly say "Wow, ______ makes the NLDS or ALDS year after year, they just reload."? Teams that I would consider to "reload" would be UCLA basketball and LSU, USC, and Ohio State football.
I also think it's funny that the Cubs fans ALWAYS believe it's "their year," and when "their year" ends early, "next year is our year." It must suck to never have your expectations lived up to. At least Brewers fans realize when their team has no shot at a World Series and won't the next year. This is the first year I've truly believed that the Brewers will make the Playoffs, and I think a lot of Brewers fans would agree. We don't get excited about big leads in the division in June (like some other fans of the division do...) because we realize that it's less than half way into the season and a lot can change. I even said last year that we'd give it up because we always do, but this year we finally made a couple trades that will hopefully put us over that hill that we haven't been able to get over. I wish Cubs fan could be realistic too, it'd save them a lot of heartache.
But go ahead, keep "reloading" into the NLDS (that you don't even make it to annually, so I'm not sure how that's even reloading).
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Its funny wadesworld...you keep talking about making it to the playoffs, I wonder your age because I know the last time I heard about the crew making the playoffs it was 4 years before I was born.
For now stick to the regular season...something that at least every team can play in!
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My favorite part of this 'race' is that for Brewers fans this is it, no more racing after this season. The Cubs will simply reload next year, and with new owners.
The Brewers may lose both Sheets and Sabathia but they will also get Gallardo back. Its tough to predict he is going to be an ace but he has shown a lot of promise.
Also, 4 of the Cubs best position players (Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, and Fukodome) are all on the wrong side of 30. Chances are they all prolly have a couple productive years left in them but it wouldn't be surprising to start to see declines out of these guys.
The Brewers still have a lot of young talent (Braun, Hart, Hardy, Parra, Gallardo, Fielder (at least for now)) plus a pretty talented farm system that should continue to feed the major league team.
The cards also have a lot of good young players as well (Pujols, Wainwright, Ludwick, Ankiel, Molina).
I think the central is going to be a 3 team race for the next few years unless the other teams can make a turnaround.
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So hostile. Doesn't Packers training camp start this week? If so, it'll be nice for the simpletons to divert their attention elsewhere because baseball is clearly not your sport.
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The Brewers may lose both Sheets and Sabathia but they will also get Gallardo back. Its tough to predict he is going to be an ace but he has shown a lot of promise.
Also, 4 of the Cubs best position players (Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, and Fukodome) are all on the wrong side of 30. Chances are they all prolly have a couple productive years left in them but it wouldn't be surprising to start to see declines out of these guys.
The Brewers still have a lot of young talent (Braun, Hart, Hardy, Parra, Gallardo, Fielder (at least for now)) plus a pretty talented farm system that should continue to feed the major league team.
The cards also have a lot of good young players as well (Pujols, Wainwright, Ludwick, Ankiel, Molina).
I think the central is going to be a 3 team race for the next few years unless the other teams can make a turnaround.
the wrong side of 30 isn't what it is in most other sports in baseball. many players can continue being solid, productive players past 35. I believe that barring any serious injury, all of those cubs players will most likely have 5 more seasons of solid contribution w/o a ton of drop off.
The brewers do have youth on their side though and having Gallardo back next year and Manny Parra coming into his own right now, it wouldn't surprise me if the Crew had a very solid rotation next year. I can see one of either Sheets or CC resigning too
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the wrong side of 30 isn't what it is in most other sports in baseball. many players can continue being solid, productive players past 35. I believe that barring any serious injury, all of those cubs players will most likely have 5 more seasons of solid contribution w/o a ton of drop off.
The brewers do have youth on their side though and having Gallardo back next year and Manny Parra coming into his own right now, it wouldn't surprise me if the Crew had a very solid rotation next year. I can see one of either Sheets or CC resigning too
5 years might be pushing if for all those guys, but i pretty much agree with everything you said
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the wrong side of 30 isn't what it is in most other sports in baseball. many players can continue being solid, productive players past 35. I believe that barring any serious injury, all of those cubs players will most likely have 5 more seasons of solid contribution w/o a ton of drop off.
The brewers do have youth on their side though and having Gallardo back next year and Manny Parra coming into his own right now, it wouldn't surprise me if the Crew had a very solid rotation next year. I can see one of either Sheets or CC resigning too
Well said, I agree they will resign sheets...not CC. He has already said he wants to pitch for a team on the West Coast. I could see him being an Angel next year.
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Its funny wadesworld...you keep talking about making it to the playoffs, I wonder your age because I know the last time I heard about the crew making the playoffs it was 4 years before I was born.
For now stick to the regular season...something that at least every team can play in!
It's funny robmufan...I keep saying that this is the first year I am excited about the team and admit that we never get over the hill, but you ignore that fact because it doesn't fit your argument. Like I said, Brewers fans are realistic, Cubs fans just see what they want to.
About Sheets or Sabathia resigning, I hate to say I don't think either will resign. From what I hear CC loves Milwaukee but we can't pay him the $120 million he's going to get somewhere. I think Sheets wants to get out of Milwaukee...this is the first year he's getting any run support whatsoever. I do think, though, that we will either sign or trade for a solid, but not top tier, starter, and have Parra, Gallardo, and that starter to make a solid 1-3. Hopefully Villinueva can come back as a starter, and Capuano could come back, but it will be almost 2 years since he has recorded a win by that time. We'll see what happens.
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It's funny robmufan...I keep saying that this is the first year I am excited about the team and admit that we never get over the hill, but you ignore that fact because it doesn't fit your argument. Like I said, Brewers fans are realistic, Cubs fans just see what they want to.
Oh, our bad, ill apologize for all cubs fans for knowing what are team has, and the competition. I'll let you speak for all brewers fans. So please, tell me how it is!
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So hostile. Doesn't Packers training camp start this week? If so, it'll be nice for the simpletons to divert their attention elsewhere because baseball is clearly not your sport.
Speaking of being hostile...hey pot, you're black!
Everyone else except you seems to be having fun with this thread...take it down a notch, Francis. I fear for your blood pressure. Wow.
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Speaking of being hostile...hey pot, you're black!
Everyone else except you seems to be having fun with this thread...take it down a notch, Francis. I fear for your blood pressure. Wow.
Great post.
robmufan, you say you know the competition and what the team has, and EVERY year is the Cubs year to win the World Series, but why does that never happen? And I told people how it would be...I said that the Cardinals were going to win the Central at the beginning of the year and everyone was laughing, but now it doesn't seem THAT far fetched (I'll admit it, it's probably not going to happen, but they're sticking around).
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So hostile. Doesn't Packers training camp start this week? If so, it'll be nice for the simpletons to divert their attention elsewhere because baseball is clearly not your sport.
Go Bears!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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So hostile. Doesn't Packers training camp start this week? If so, it'll be nice for the simpletons to divert their attention elsewhere because baseball is clearly not your sport.
Baseball may be America's past time, but it's clearly just a warm up for America's game. If you don't think football rules baseball across the country, you're fooling yourself, so calling us "simpletons" because we're bigger football fans than baseball fans is a pretty poor effort.
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Baseball may be America's past time, but it's clearly just a warm up for America's game. If you don't think football rules baseball across the country, you're fooling yourself, so calling us "simpletons" because we're bigger football fans than baseball fans is a pretty poor effort.
speak for yourself here. the brewers are way more important to many of us than the packers.
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Accurate. And it's the Cubs year to win back-to-back World Series? Not quite.
Nobody said that. However, it is our year to win back-to-back division titles.
What I personally find funny when PTM says "The Cubs will simply reload next year, and with new owners," usually when people talk about a team just "reloading" they are talking about a team that continually reaches the "promised land" for that sport. For college basketball, it's the Final Four. For college football, it's a BCS Bowl. For the NFL, it's the Super Bowl. For the NBA, it's the NBA Finals. For the MLB, it's...the NLDS? Congratulations Cubs fans, keep "reloading" into the NLDS (which you don't even make every year, so how is that even reloading?) Does anybody honestly say "Wow, ______ makes the NLDS or ALDS year after year, they just reload."? Teams that I would consider to "reload" would be UCLA basketball and LSU, USC, and Ohio State football.
The Cubs will reload in the offseason. Our nucleus is all under contract for next year. Jim Hendry will examine the team and the market and go out and find the supporting pieces we need. This has nothing to do with being a powerhouse. It has to do with the fact that we are a good team this year, look to be a good team next year as well, and have a front office that has proven they are willing to do what it takes to put the best possible team on the field.
I also think it's funny that the Cubs fans ALWAYS believe it's "their year," and when "their year" ends early, "next year is our year."
Optimism. It's a good thing.
It must suck to never have your expectations lived up to.
That would suck. Sucked in 06, that's for sure. Didn't happen last year. Or this year as of now. So I can't speak as to recently.
At least Brewers fans realize when their team has no shot at a World Series and won't the next year.
That sounds like a fantastic fan experience.
This is the first year I've truly believed that the Brewers will make the Playoffs, and I think a lot of Brewers fans would agree.
Way to support your team.
We don't get excited about big leads in the division in June (like some other fans of the division do...) because we realize that it's less than half way into the season and a lot can change.
Then what the hell was all that gloating last year?
I even said last year that we'd give it up because we always do,
IF this is true, you'd be a part of the minority.
but this year we finally made a couple trades that will hopefully put us over that hill that we haven't been able to get over. I wish Cubs fan could be realistic too, it'd save them a lot of heartache.
I think the Cubs have a great shot at winning the title. I think they had a great shot last year. I think they should have a great shot next year. Is that not realistic? And I'll keep my heartache, thank you. Makes success that much more sweeter.
But go ahead, keep "reloading" into the NLDS (that you don't even make it to annually, so I'm not sure how that's even reloading).
Way to make sense. Strong ending to your post.
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speak for yourself here. the brewers are way more important to many of us than the packers.
There's a good chunk that have a stronger affiliation to the Brewers than the Pack, but I don't think it's a stretch to say Wisconsin is largely a football state.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Brewers, I'm a 9 game pack season ticket holder and get to 25+ games a season, and watch just about every other one, but starting next week my attention starts to split off because the football season begins in Green Bay.
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Meanwhile....my Halos have the best record in baseball and just swept the Red Sox. ;)
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robmufan, you say you know the competition
and the competition.
and what the team has
knowing what our team has
, and EVERY year is the Cubs year to win the World Series,............................................
Hmm FAR be it from me to question you, wadesworld, but is there a chance you might have completely made up the last of those three details in order to make robmufan and, in turn, cubs fans, look stupid? In the future you should probably stick to not naming your straw men.
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and what the team has, and EVERY year is the Cubs year to win the World Series,
Hmm FAR be it from me to question you, wadesworld, but is there a chance you might have completely made up the last of those three details in order to make robmufan and, in turn, cubs fans, look stupid? In the future you should probably stick to not naming your straw men.
Your post makes absolutely no sense to me, especially all of the quotes you used, so I really can't answer that question for you, I apologize.
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Your post makes absolutely no sense to me, especially all of the quotes you used, so I really can't answer that question for you, I apologize.
You mentioned three things robmufan said. I found two of them. Please tell me where in his post the 3rd comes from.
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You mentioned three things robmufan said. I found two of them. Please tell me where in his post the 3rd comes from.
Oh gotcha, now I see. I meant that Cubs fans are known for saying that "this year's our year" until that season ends, and then "next year's our year." robmufan is saying that Cubs fans know what their team has and what the competition is. So, if Cubs fans know the competition and what they have on their team, and Cubs fans also say "this year's our year" or "next year's our year," it always happens.
In other words, we were both talking about Cubs fans as a whole, not just robmufan.
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Is it just me? Or has this whole discussion deteriorated into the realm of the indecipherable?
Meanwhile, the Crew is just 2 games back....
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Another wasted performance for Rich :'( :'( :'(
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Like I said, Brewers fans are realistic, Cubs fans just see what they want to.
If you want to talk about realistic fan bases, I really think you need to reexamine your fanbases:
1.) Lunatic Packers Fans
2.) Insane Badger Backers
3.) Inferiority Complex and Every Player Will Continue To Have Career Years Brewer Fans
4.) Michael Redd Will Be Healthy Bucks Fans
5.) Inferiority Complex UWM Fans
6.) Ridiculous Carroll College Fanatics
While many of the posters on here are very knowledgeable and can take a good rubbing. Clearly, wadesworld cannot, which has made this thread not fun anymore.
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Yo PTM,
Don't forget about the:
Over-anxious deer hunters who iron their blaze orange jumpsuits a week before the season starts
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unfortunately, i have to agree w/ the cubs douches ( ;) ) here. wadesworld, it's a pissing match.
and because of that:
http://adweek.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/cubs.jpg
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Yo PTM,
Don't forget about the:
Over-anxious deer hunters who iron their blaze orange jumpsuits a week before the season starts
And it's the only thing they iron all year.
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Agreed MU Warrior, this is a pissing match
So the question now is: Who is the star of this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1MJ-ta0S24
A. PTM
B. RobMufan
C. Drew
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My head is WAY more meatier.
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Another wasted performance for Rich :'( :'( :'(
12 1/3 innings, 20 strikeouts, 6 hits allowed and one earned run so far as a Cub...clearly this guy is damaged goods. No shame in losing a duel with Randy Johnson on the road. Harden was a great acquisition and, imagine this, he'll be in the rotation next year also....i.e. not a rental.
BTW- Looks like Wood isn't headed to the DL....sorry to disappoint you.
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12 1/3 innings, 20 strikeouts, 6 hits allowed and one earned run so far as a Cub...clearly this guy is damaged goods. No shame in losing a duel with Randy Johnson on the road. Harden was a great acquisition and, imagine this, he'll be in the rotation next year also....i.e. not a rental.
BTW- Looks like Wood isn't headed to the DL....sorry to disappoint you.
That's not the argument. The claim was that it was another wasted performance, which it was. Where's that awesome Cubbies offense been lately?
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That's not the argument. The claim was that it was another wasted performance, which it was. Where's that awesome Cubbies offense been lately?
I realize what the argument was....there was also a huge amount of criticism on the acquisition based on Harden's health history and recent performances (i.e. decrease in velocity, etc.). He is clearly a 1 or 2 caliber starter....he's shown that in his first two starts as a Cub. Team is 1-1 in his starts and he has been nothing short of dominant. Was his first performace wasted because he didn't get the W? He did his job....the Cubs won the game....all's well that ends well.
Was Sheets' last start in SF a wasted performance too since he didn't get the W? Or better yet...was his Opening Day start against the Cubs wasted because he didn't get the W or did he do his job? Depends on how hung up on stats you are I guess.
That awsome Cubs offense has clearly slowed down.....it's a 162 game season, teams will have struggles. Much better to have struggles with a 2 game lead in first place....btw, still lead the league in batting avg and runs scored.
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Agreed MU Warrior, this is a pissing match
So the question now is: Who is the star of this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1MJ-ta0S24
A. PTM
B. RobMufan
C. Drew
Not me, I could only wish to be that physically fit.
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Agreed MU Warrior, this is a pissing match
So the question now is: Who is the star of this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1MJ-ta0S24
A. PTM
B. RobMufan
C. Drew
I was in the background, writing his material.
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If anyone wants to pass the afternoon, just go on youtube and search the following terms:
"cubs drunk"
"brewers drunk"
And '94...yes it is a wasted performance. But it clearly wasn't Harden's fault. That geriatric lineup couldn't must more than a few hits against a 44 year old pitcher with an ERA over 5
And you don't see Brewer fans on here creaming our shorts over the CC start. Harden has looked good, but it's only been two games. Don't crown as him the next Mordecai "Three Finger" Brown just yet.
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If anyone wants to pass the afternoon, just go on youtube and search the following terms:
"cubs drunk"
"brewers drunk"
And '94...yes it is a wasted performance. But it clearly wasn't Harden's fault. That geriatric lineup couldn't must more than a few hits against a 44 year old pitcher with an ERA over 5
And you don't see Brewer fans on here creaming our shorts over the CC start. Harden has looked good, but it's only been two games. Don't crown as him the next Mordecai "Three Finger" Brown just yet.
Hilarious...."geriatric lineup".....yep, clearly the Cubs are laden with over-the-hill players. I forget, how old is that new 2B you just got to supplement Rickie "Mr. .219" Weeks? It's nice that Cameron, Mota, Torres, Counsell and Kendall will be able to point him to the hot tub....I would've brought up Gagne too but that wouldn't have been nice.
I don't think anyone has retired Harden's number yet in Chicago, take it easy. Tempered enthusiasm.
Yep, the Cubs lost to a HOF pitcher last night who's won his last 3 starts.....how humiliating.
I've never seen so much trash talking from a 2nd place team....should make it fun down the stretch.
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Randy Johnson is 13-0 against the Cubs.
Johnson OWNS the Cubs, not matter who's in the lineup.
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I know hearing he was 12-0 against them yesterday before the game made me feel better that we'd only be 2 games back after all games were completed.
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Hilarious...."geriatric lineup".....yep, clearly the Cubs are laden with over-the-hill players. I forget, how old is that new 2B you just got to supplement Rickie "Mr. .219" Weeks? It's nice that Cameron, Mota, Torres, Counsell and Kendall will be able to point him to the hot tub....I would've brought up Gagne too but that wouldn't have been nice.
I don't think anyone has retired Harden's number yet in Chicago, take it easy. Tempered enthusiasm.
Yep, the Cubs lost to a HOF pitcher last night who's won his last 3 starts.....how humiliating.
I've never seen so much trash talking from a 2nd place team....should make it fun down the stretch.
Wow, I think Marquettefan94 has taken my place as the most hostile poster in this forum...
You fail to mention that our core group of players are Braun, Hart, Hardy, and Fielder. They're all pretty young, if you didn't know that.
Harden has been very good, nobody denies it was a good trade for the Cubs...the Brewers just got a slightly better starter in CC who can go deeper into games and doesn't have the injury history that Harden does. Nobody's saying Harden sucks.
Who's Johnson's last loss against?
And yup, it WILL be a fun stretch, despite the Brewers being FAR superior to the Cubs.
Everybody's having a little fun in here...try it...don't take everything so seriously.
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wadesworld, 94 is the ying to your yang.
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wadesworld, 94 is the ying to your yang.
Yeah I'll admit it, at first I was way too into it, but I've eased off some because, after all, we're just fans, it's our job to think our team is better than other teams and to let it be known...
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Wow, I think Marquettefan94 has taken my place as the most hostile poster in this forum...
You fail to mention that our core group of players are Braun, Hart, Hardy, and Fielder. They're all pretty young, if you didn't know that.
Harden has been very good, nobody denies it was a bad trade for the Cubs...the Brewers just got a slightly better starter in CC who can go deeper into games and doesn't have the injury history that Harden does. Nobody's saying Harden sucks.
Who's Johnson's last lost against?
And yup, it WILL be a fun stretch, despite the Brewers being FAR superior to the Cubs.
Everybody's having a little fun in here...try it...don't take everything so seriously.
Wow, relax big guy....I am having fun, are you? You should review some of your earlier posts. I'll leave the hostility to you....not to worry. Now you'll sit here and take the high road....give me a break.
Who cares who Johnson's last loss is against? What does that have to do with him beating the Cubs last night or the fact that he's pitching a lot better over his last 3 starts?
Again, no worries, you will certainly keep the crown of "most hostile poster in this forum".....hilarious.
Yeah, I did fail to mention that your core group of players are Braun, Hart, Hardy, and Fielder.....the other poster was referring to the Cubs as a "geriatric" lineup....I simply pointed out that the Brewers are not without their share of veterans....hence the list. Soto, Zambrano, Harden, Ramirez, and Theriot are all pretty young themselves.
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Yeah I'll admit it, at first I was way too into it, but I've eased off some because, after all, we're just fans, it's our job to think our team is better than other teams and to let it be known...
Well said, and I agree! As long as we all know this is fun, there's no harm in a pissing match!
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Cheaters....
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/22/cubs.fine/index.html (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/22/cubs.fine/index.html)
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HAHAHA chump change. Thats just a tad more than prince owes in back taxes!
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HAHAHA chump change. Thats just a tad more than prince owes in back taxes!
Haha touche.
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Wow, relax big guy....I am having fun, are you? You should review some of your earlier posts. I'll leave the hostility to you....not to worry. Now you'll sit here and take the high road....give me a break.
Who cares who Johnson's last loss is against? What does that have to do with him beating the Cubs last night or the fact that he's pitching a lot better over his last 3 starts?
Again, no worries, you will certainly keep the crown of "most hostile poster in this forum".....hilarious.
Yeah, I did fail to mention that your core group of players are Braun, Hart, Hardy, and Fielder.....the other poster was referring to the Cubs as a "geriatric" lineup....I simply pointed out that the Brewers are not without their share of veterans....hence the list. Soto, Zambrano, Harden, Ramirez, and Theriot are all pretty young themselves.
I am pretty relaxed actually, and I'm not all that big quite honestly. I admitted before I was a little too serious, now I've eased off. It's not really taking the high road, just having more fun.
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uh oh. down to a one game lead for the Cubbies!
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Woooo a one game lead. I'm really scared.
I'm sure you've noticed no Cubs fan has mentioned that the we have been in first place for the last 58 days. It's because we realize it's who finishes in first after game 162 (or 163 if need be).
I wasn't excited for our 5 game lead when we had one nor am I worried about our 1 game lead now. Theres still over two months to go and I am looking forward to getting Alfonso Soriano back. I'll take him over Ray Durham anyday : )
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Woooo a one game lead. I'm really scared.
I'm sure you've noticed no Cubs fan has mentioned that the we have been in first place for the last 58 days. It's because we realize it's who finishes in first after game 162 (or 163 if need be).
I wasn't excited for our 5 game lead when we had one nor am I worried about our 1 game lead now. Theres still over two months to go and I am looking forward to getting Alfonso Soriano back. I'll take him over Ray Durham anyday : )
right, and have fun not playing everyone in the west twice.
The lead goes away tonight, and tomorrow the brewers overtake first.
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Alfonso Soriano > Anyone you can possibly trade for
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Also I enjoy knowing we didnt trade away our farm system for Ray Durham and C.C. who will be living it up on the west coast next year.
I am impressed though. Brewer fans haven't resorted to bringing up the Packers.
(I couldn't find a pic of Favre in a Viking jersey but this will do)
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right, and have fun not playing everyone in the west twice.
The lead goes away tonight, and tomorrow the brewers overtake first.
Although that'd be awesome, I'm not going to count on it. Our sweep in St. Louis is going to be awesome, but I don't think the Cubs will lose 2 more games in a row.
About trading away our farm system, we traded away LaPorta, our 2nd best prospect, and nobody else of significance. I'd say it was definitely worth it. I don't think we need a trade, especially the way your offense has been playing. Soriano coming back might raise your average runs per game up from about 2 since the All-Star Break to about 2.5. I'm predicting a tie at the top of the division by the time the Brewers and Cubs play. Should be fun.
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Here it is.
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7028718&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1
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Also I enjoy knowing we didnt trade away our farm system for Ray Durham and C.C. who will be living it up on the west coast next year.
I am impressed though. Brewer fans haven't resorted to bringing up the Packers.
(I couldn't find a pic of Favre in a Viking jersey but this will do)
Think Maynard would give up the number...?
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Oh boy, Alfonso Soriano is coming back!!!
Cameron - 235 ab, 15 hr, 39 rbi, .320 obp, .477 slg
Soriano - 212 ab, 15 hr, 40 rib, .332 obp, .547 slg
Good thing the Brewers aren't paying Cameron $17m a year until he's 38. Soriano does have a pretty big advantage in slugging but I think Cameron's better defense brings them pretty close as overall players.
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LaPorta and your PTBNL is a top 5 prospect.
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Also I enjoy knowing we didnt trade away our farm system for Ray Durham and C.C.
Eh, not true. In trading for Sabathia and Durham, the Brewers only coughed up one of their consensus top 10 prospects -- a kid who is blocked by Braun and Fielder anyway. If Green is PTBN, he's just outside of that group (I think #11); a nice player though he is likely blocked by Gamel. The guys in the Durham deal are not prospects.
In the end, the Brewers will land up with a host of draft picks next spring when Sabathia and Durham sign elsewhere (the former likely to be tier one FA signed by a contender which will yield a pair of picks for Melvin, who has drafted very well as the GM in Beer City).
In the end, smart moves by Melvin......he improved his major league roster dramatically yet he didn't sell the farm. By compare, look at what Theo Epstein coughed up last year to get that douche Gagne: David Murphy (who is having a fine first full season in the majors), Kason Gabbard (serviceable lefty starter), and Engel Beltre -- who, although he's just a kid, is now one of the ten best prospects in baseball.
By any measure, Melvin did well here.
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LaPorta would be starting next year by the end of the season.
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LaPorta would be starting next year by the end of the season.
Possibly, but that would mean Hart would have to shift to center so LaPorta could play right. Of course, he is still only a prospect. There are no guarantees that he will ever be a star at the major league level. There was some uproar a few years ago when the Brewers traded Nelson Cruz, who is having another monster year in AAA but is already 27 and didn't fare too well when given a chance by the Rangers last year. If the Breweres make some noise in the playoffs this year the trade will probably be worth it. If the Brewers miss the playoffs and LaPorta turns into the next incarnation of Pujols or Arod people will look back and think this was a bad trade. However, at some point in time, you have to start making moves to win now given the young talent the Brewers have at the major league level rather than continually looking forward to 'next year'.
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Possibly, but that would mean Hart would have to shift to center so LaPorta could play right. Of course, he is still only a prospect. There are no guarantees that he will ever be a star at the major league level. There was some uproar a few years ago when the Brewers traded Nelson Cruz, who is having another monster year in AAA but is already 27 and didn't fare too well when given a chance by the Rangers last year. If the Breweres make some noise in the playoffs this year the trade will probably be worth it. If the Brewers miss the playoffs and LaPorta turns into the next incarnation of Pujols or Arod people will look back and think this was a bad trade. However, at some point in time, you have to start making moves to win now given the young talent the Brewers have at the major league level rather than continually looking forward to 'next year'.
+1
plus, if anyone is calling the Laporta and others for CC a bad trade they need to stop talking baseball because I haven't seen one person in the media calling it a mistake.
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LaPorta would be playing first next season by the end.
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LaPorta would be playing first next season by the end.
congrats, he would beat out a guy who is batting .236 with 7 home runs.
the bar will be set pretty high...
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LaPorta would be playing first next season by the end.
So you think Fielder would be gone by then? I can see the Brewers eventually trading him but I don't think it will be that soon. He still has 3 arbitration years left so I would think the Brewers would hold onto him for at least another year and half but who knows if they get a really good deal.
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Possibly, but that would mean Hart would have to shift to center so LaPorta could play right. Of course, he is still only a prospect. There are no guarantees that he will ever be a star at the major league level. There was some uproar a few years ago when the Brewers traded Nelson Cruz, who is having another monster year in AAA but is already 27 and didn't fare too well when given a chance by the Rangers last year. If the Breweres make some noise in the playoffs this year the trade will probably be worth it. If the Brewers miss the playoffs and LaPorta turns into the next incarnation of Pujols or Arod people will look back and think this was a bad trade. However, at some point in time, you have to start making moves to win now given the young talent the Brewers have at the major league level rather than continually looking forward to 'next year'.
+1
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http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Cubs-fan-Steve-Bartman-offered-25K-for-just-one?urn=mlb,95542
Will they ever leave the poor guy alone?
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http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Cubs-fan-Steve-Bartman-offered-25K-for-just-one?urn=mlb,95542
Will they ever leave the poor guy alone?
Yeah I was just looking at that. Moises Alou admitted that he never would've caught the ball, why can't Cubs fans do the same? Even if he had the chance to catch it, it was one play in a 7 game series, they were still leading that game, etc.
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Yeah I was just looking at that. Moises Alou admitted that he never would've caught the ball, why can't Cubs fans do the same? Even if he had the chance to catch it, it was one play in a 7 game series, they were still leading that game, etc.
Alou has already retracted that statement.
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http://youtube.com/watch?v=JoumAUfwnI8
Wow. I liked how when the Brewers were playing in Wrigley and Braun got trash thrown at him when a ball was hit into the left field corner ESPN showed the highlights and said said "only in Wrigley would that happen."
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Alou has already retracted that statement.
His point still stands.
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Yeah I was just looking at that. Moises Alou admitted that he never would've caught the ball, why can't Cubs fans do the same? Even if he had the chance to catch it, it was one play in a 7 game series, they were still leading that game, etc.
As I stated earlier in this thread, the vast majority of Cubs fans don't care about the Bartman junk anymore. Few things irk me more than when some idiotic Cubs hater brings this crap up. Sure, there are some idiots who still think the guy should be slaughtered, but I'm sure some moronic Orioles fans feel the same way about Jeffrey Maier. It happens, but it's usually propagated by the media. They often tend to blow this type of junk out of proportion a bit, in case you haven't noticed. Every team has its own sect of clueless fans (i.e. the Bartman haters). The vast, vast majority of Cubs fans don't even care about this anymore.
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Few things irk me more than when some idiotic Cubs hater brings this crap up.
Clearly. Yahoo's the one that had it as their main story...let them know.
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I love it... the Cubs cough up 4 games in a week, so the Cubs bash the Brewers for the trades they made???
Am I missing something here... the Brewers are playing for this year, who cares who would be playing by the years end next year... maybe thats the Cubs fault, always looking to the next year, pay attention, this division isn't yours like you guys proclaimed halfway through the first half of the year, something us Brewer fans did last year... and as you can look back, I was one to say that the year is not close to being over, and was laughed at.
Have fun in the Pennant race Cub fans, I'll ride the CC train to the playoffs. Even if it is only a rental, good year for a rental when there is clearly no favorite in the NL.
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As I stated earlier in this thread, the vast majority of Cubs fans don't care about the Bartman junk anymore. Few things irk me more than when some idiotic Cubs hater brings this crap up. Sure, there are some idiots who still think the guy should be slaughtered, but I'm sure some moronic Orioles fans feel the same way about Jeffrey Maier. It happens, but it's usually propagated by the media. They often tend to blow this type of junk out of proportion a bit, in case you haven't noticed. Every team has its own sect of clueless fans (i.e. the Bartman haters). The vast, vast majority of Cubs fans don't even care about this anymore.
I agree with you. Just feel sorry for the guy. I believe he had to change jobs and actually moved out of the Chicago area. Alou's statement was five years late and he could have decreased the pressure on the guy by saying that after that game. I still would blame alex gonzalez for dropping a sure double play and prior not sucking it up...
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Why are the Cubz scoring so much tonight? They should save some of those extra runs in case their offense goes into hibernation again like it has been a lot lately.
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A lot lately? They came out of the break slow, and I expected it, we did send half our team to the All-Star game. We have been going through a terrible stretch, and the Brewers are hot. Best part? We are still in first place. Second best part? The Cardinals are treading water very fast (sorry Brewers this 'rivalry' is nowhere near STL).
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A lot lately? They came out of the break slow, and I expected it, we did send half our team to the All-Star game. We have been going through a terrible stretch, and the Brewers are hot. Best part? We are still in first place. Second best part? The Cardinals are treading water very fast (sorry Brewers this 'rivalry' is nowhere near STL).
Half your team went to the all-star game, too bad half your team isn't all-star caliber.
The Brewers had a terrible stretch early in the season and now they are only 1 game back. Thats why they play 162 games.
Treading water? The Cards had won 5 straight prior to the Brewers series and have still gained two games over the cubs in the last 10. Also, shouldn't the Cubs actually win something or at least make a WS appearance once in awhile before they consider themselves rivals of the 2nd most storied franchise in baseball. I think most Cards fans would consider the Astros much bigger rivals than the Cubs over the last 10 years.
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I think most Cards fans would consider the Astros much bigger rivals than the Cubs over the last 10 years.
Most Cards fans would think your completely wrong. I don't know if you watch Cards v. Cubs at all when they happen, but it's generally accepted as the second best rivalry in baseball to the media.
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it's true. Cards hate the Cubs and vice versa. that's by far the biggest rivalry in the NL Central.
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Its one of the most storied rivalries in baseball
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Cue Price is Right's WRONG sound for jmayer.
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it's true. Cards hate the Cubs and vice versa. that's by far the biggest rivalry in the NL Central.
No question about it. As a Cubs fan, I will always consider the Cards to be our biggest rival.
Question for Brewer fans ... Do you consider the Cubs to be your #1 rival. If so, why? And, before joining the NL Central in '98, what team(s) did you consider to be the Brewers biggest rival?
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Its one of the most storied rivalries in baseball
I'm a cards fan as well (long story as to why I like both the cards and brewers) and I definitely hate the cubs more than anyone else, but i definitely realize the astros have been a much bigger rival over the past 10/15 years. There is no doubt the teams hate each other, but the cubs have not seriously contended/won the division nearly as many times over that stretch as the astros. I realize the cards and cubs have been playing for a much longer time and they are traditional rivals, but the astros have been a much bigger thorn in the side to the cards recently. This is kind of like how the packers and vikings were really bigger rivals during the mid to later 90s than the packers and the bears were. Now, this could change again now that the cubs and cards both seem to have good teams for the next few years; but I was talking more about competitive rivalry than rooting rivlary. Hope that clarifies my point.
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Most Cards fans would think your completely wrong. I don't know if you watch Cards v. Cubs at all when they happen, but it's generally accepted as the second best rivalry in baseball to the media.
Not really. Giants/Dodgers remains a better rivalry, it might be baseball's best over time but we just don't hear about it much being away from the West Coast.
I don't have a dog in this race (Red Sox fan here), but that Dodger/Giant tiff has been notably better than Red Sox-Yankees for most of the last 60 years. The Yankees/Red Sox rivalry was in hiatus for about 25 years before the Munson collision at home plate in the early 70s -- meanwhile, the Dodgers and Giants were decades into trading blows that made differences in the pennant races, something that continues today. Cards/Cubs - the biggest fault with that rivalry is that all to often the Cards have been much more competitive than the Cubs.
Regardless, MLB has few great rivalries that have stood the test of time; there are really only three that are worthy of note.
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Cue Price is Right's WRONG sound for jmayer.
How was I wrong? I said that recently the Astros have been bigger rivals to the Cards than the Cubs.
History of the NL Central (since 1994, excluding the current year):
STL
1st - 7
2nd - 0
Hou
1st - 4
2nd - 8
CHI
1st - 2
2nd - 2
Please explain to me where I was mistaken. I don't look to the media to tell me who my team's rivals are for the past 15 years, I look to the standings. Obviously, the Cubs - Cards is a bigger rivalry over time (Houston was an expansion team in the 60s), but I was talking about recently.
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Records don't constitute a rivalry.
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Not really. Giants/Dodgers remains a better rivalry, it might be baseball's best over time but we just don't hear about it much being away from the West Coast.
I don't have a dog in this race (Red Sox fan here), but that Dodger/Giant tiff has been notably better than Red Sox-Yankees for most of the last 60 years. The Yankees/Red Sox rivalry was in hiatus for about 25 years before the Munson collision at home plate in the early 70s -- meanwhile, the Dodgers and Giants were decades into trading blows that made differences in the pennant races, something that continues today. Cards/Cubs - the biggest fault with that rivalry is that all to often the Cards have been much more competitive than the Cubs.
Regardless, MLB has few great rivalries that have stood the test of time; there are really only three that are worthy of note.
Great point NY.
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Records don't constitute a rivalry.
whatever you say
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for the Crew, it's pretty much just always been a rivalry w/ the team from Chicago. However, because the Twins and Brewers moved to their respective cities a year apart and we still regularly have them as a home and home interleague matchup, they were a big one too.
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for the Crew, it's pretty much just always been a rivalry w/ the team from Chicago. However, because the Twins and Brewers moved to their respective cities a year apart and we still regularly have them as a home and home interleague matchup, they were a big one too.
i never saw the twins as a rival. it was the white sox. the teams would get in brawls. the fans would get in brawls. it was great.
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for the Crew, it's pretty much just always been a rivalry w/ the team from Chicago. However, because the Twins and Brewers moved to their respective cities a year apart and we still regularly have them as a home and home interleague matchup, they were a big one too.
I see how the cubs would be the brewers big rival in recent years (when the brewers have been able to field a decent team). But I just don't see how the cubs were a rival before them...I see this similar to the Astros Cards rivalry
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for the Crew, it's pretty much just always been a rivalry w/ the team from Chicago. However, because the Twins and Brewers moved to their respective cities a year apart and we still regularly have them as a home and home interleague matchup, they were a big one too.
I don't think it's always been that way. When the Crew was actually good in the late 1970s and early 1980s, the biggest rivals were the Orioles and Yankees because they were the teams in the way of the Crew's rise to the top of the AL East. The Twins were always fairly big, but I never remember the White Sox being like that back then. That rivalry didn't really take off until the creation of the AL Central, and it burned out quickly when the Crew moved to the NL(which I've still never agreed with).
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I see how the cubs would be the brewers big rival in recent years (when the brewers have been able to field a decent team). But I just don't see how the cubs were a rival before them...I see this similar to the Astros Cards rivalry
Records don't constitute rivalries, but they do help.
Honest question: for the last 2 years, have the Cards still been the biggest rivalries the Cubs have had? Obviously throughout history they haven't as they've switched from the AL to the NL and were not competitive for 20+ years now, but this year if the Cubs had a chance to knock someone out of the playoffs who would it be, the Cards or the Brewers?
My guess would be (but I really don't know for sure) that it'd be the Brewers just based on the fact that they're the young team and they've been (I think in the end the Cards will fall off a bit) the team that has threatened to win the division the last 2 years, it's closer (I'd be willing to bet there are more Cubs fans wearing Cubs gear in a game not being played by the Cubs in Miller Park than there are in a game in Busch), I would think there are more overall sports rivalries between Wisconsin and Illinois than Illinois and Missouri, etc.
Again just wondering if just this year the Cubs fans would consider the Brewers more of a rival (not taking history into account).
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I love the Blackhawk/Red Wing rivalry the best.
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That game at wrigley is going to be amazing!!
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I love the Blackhawk/Red Wing rivalry the best.
It looks similar to the MU vs. UWM rivalry.
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Records don't constitute rivalries, but they do help.
Honest question: for the last 2 years, have the Cards still been the biggest rivalries the Cubs have had? Obviously throughout history they haven't as they've switched from the AL to the NL and were not competitive for 20+ years now, but this year if the Cubs had a chance to knock someone out of the playoffs who would it be, the Cards or the Brewers?
My guess would be (but I really don't know for sure) that it'd be the Brewers just based on the fact that they're the young team and they've been (I think in the end the Cards will fall off a bit) the team that has threatened to win the division the last 2 years, it's closer (I'd be willing to bet there are more Cubs fans wearing Cubs gear in a game not being played by the Cubs in Miller Park than there are in a game in Busch), I would think there are more overall sports rivalries between Wisconsin and Illinois than Illinois and Missouri, etc.
Again just wondering if just this year the Cubs fans would consider the Brewers more of a rival (not taking history into account).
As a lifelong Cubs fan I would rank the Cubs rivals in this order:
1) Cardinals
2) White Sox
3) Brewers
It's close between 1 and 2. With the Cubs/Cards playing approx 18 times/season and being in the same division I had to put them first. But in terms of intensity and passion, nothing compares to the crosstown rivalry between the Cubs/White Sox....based on the fans alone.
While the Brewers are certainly the "newest" rival the Cubs and Cards have been playing against each other in the NL since 1892...hard to beat that. And the Cubs and Sox have competed in the same town since 1901...it's a very passionate intra-city battle that the Cubs/Brewers series could never rival.
The games against the Brewers this year will obviously have more meaning than they ever have but there's way too much history involved with the Cards and White Sox.
If the race wasn't tight between the Cubs and Brewers, I would pull for the Brewers to beat the White Sox and/or Cards every time they play.
Up until the division realignment a lot of older Cubs fans would have probably had the Mets in their top 3 but since we only play each other 6 times a season and are no longer in the same division the rivalry has lost its luster.
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When do the White Sox and Brewers play each other, besides spring training?
My two favorite teams are whoever is playing the cubs and whoever is playing notre dame.
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As a lifelong Cubs fan I would rank the Cubs rivals in this order:
1) Cardinals
2) White Sox
3) Brewers
It's close between 1 and 2. With the Cubs/Cards playing approx 18 times/season and being in the same division I had to put them first. But in terms of intensity and passion, nothing compares to the crosstown rivalry between the Cubs/White Sox....based on the fans alone.
As a Cubs fan, here's how I would rank the rivals:
1.) Cards
2.) White Sox
3.) Brewers (Right Now)
For me, the Cards and Sox will always be the top 2 rivals for the Cubs. Right now, I have the Brewers in the third spot, but that's only due to the recent divisional races. A few years ago, the Astros held the third spot and going back further to the late 80's & early 90's, I would have put the Mets there. For me, that final spot changes depending on the team the Cubs are competing with in the NL Central ... If the Reds or Pirates were having great success, they would probably take that spot.
Wadesworld - Look, two years of late season races with the Brewers doesn't make a rivalry. IMO, it is going to take a few more seasons of tough divisional races, important series in August & September, and maybe even a NLCS for the Brewers to cement themselves as a big rival for most Cubs fan. Let's face it, between 1998-2006 this series may have had some interesting games, but it lack any pivotal contest or series where both teams were in the mix for postseason play.
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When do the White Sox and Brewers play each other, besides spring training?
Interleague.
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Interleague.
And MLB has kept that away from us. I remember many a game from the Garner years of brawls in Third World Country Stadium and on the field.
I miss those days.
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Wadesworld - Look, two years of late season races with the Brewers doesn't make a rivalry. IMO, it is going to take a few more seasons of tough divisional races, important series in August & September, and maybe even a NLCS for the Brewers to cement themselves as a big rival for most Cubs fan. Let's face it, between 1998-2006 this series may have had some interesting games, but it lack any pivotal contest or series where both teams were in the mix for postseason play.
Yeah I guess I was asking as of this season alone (not looking at history...as I said the Brewers weren't even in the same league as the Cubs until recently and weren't competitive until VERY recently (the last 2 years) so historically the Brewers would not be the Cubs biggest rivals, just as historically the Cubs are not the Brewers biggest rivals). I guess the question more was as of this year who is the most hated team for Cubs fans (which doesn't necessarily make it a rivalry).
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Records don't constitute a rivalry.
I asked 5 of the biggest cards fans I know who they thought was a bigger rival over the last 15 years, the cubs or the astros, and each responded the astros emphatically. Several laughed off the cubs as a recent rival stating to be a true rivalry both teams have to be good and the cubs have rarely been over that time period. I guess a lot of times the worse team always thinks/hopes they are bigger rivals to the better team than they actually are. This is not to say the fanbases of the two teams don't hate each other, because they definitely do, but hate doesn't make a rivalry; meaningful series, especially late and in the post season do.
So, to confirm what I first stated; the cards and astros have been bigger rivals over the past 15 years than the cards and cubs.
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for the Crew, it's pretty much just always been a rivalry w/ the team from Chicago. However, because the Twins and Brewers moved to their respective cities a year apart and we still regularly have them as a home and home interleague matchup, they were a big one too.
Just a historical point. The Brewers and Twins moved to their respective cities nine years apart. The Senators moved to Minnesota from Washington and became the Twins in 1961 and the Pilots moved to Milwaukee and became the Brewers in 1970.
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I asked 5 of the biggest cards fans I know who they thought was a bigger rival over the last 15 years, the cubs or the astros, and each responded the astros emphatically. Several laughed off the cubs as a recent rival stating to be a true rivalry both teams have to be good and the cubs have rarely been over that time period. I guess a lot of times the worse team always thinks/hopes they are bigger rivals to the better team than they actually are. This is not to say the fanbases of the two teams don't hate each other, because they definitely do, but hate doesn't make a rivalry; meaningful series, especially late and in the post season do.
So, to confirm what I first stated; the cards and astros have been bigger rivals over the past 15 years than the cards and cubs.
Interesting....I know that a few of my good friends from St. Louis would emphatically say that the Cubs are their biggest rivals. Like I pointed out earlier the Cubs/Cards have been playing each other since 1892 and the further west you get in Illinois the rivalry gets more heated for the fans. I guess it depends who you ask.
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Interesting....I know that a few of my good friends from St. Louis would emphatically say that the Cubs are their biggest rivals. Like I pointed out earlier the Cubs/Cards have been playing each other since 1892 and the further west you get in Illinois he rivalry gets more heated for the fans. I guess it depends who you ask.
I think there is definitely a lot of hatred, I just think on the field the astros have been a bigger rivalry lately.
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I think there is definitely a lot of hatred, I just think on the field the astros have been a bigger rivalry lately.
My friends, and cousins, from St. Louis would emphatically disagree with you and probably call you crazy in the process. There is too much history between the two teams to not have it considered one of the three most prominent rivalries in baseball. I absolutely despise the Cardinals and I know my friends and family from St. Louis absolutely despise the Cubs. The Cardinals vs. the Astros might have been the better game in the 90s, but by all means, the bigger rivalry is the Cubs vs. the Cardinals, and always will be.
JMayer: Since you believe that records constitute the basis for a "rivalry" (as your "whatever you say" comment to marqptm implied), do you believe that Marquette and Notre Dame are rivals? I mean, we've gotten it handed to us to the tune of a 33-77 record against the Irish.
The rivalry is rooted in the hatred towards each of the two teams. Considering (geographically) about half of Illinois is Cardinal country, the two groups of fans hate each other pretty heavily. It's much the same as the majority of Marquette fans hating DePaul and Notre Dame. All of the schools are competing with each other for their potential students and, often times, recruits.
And since this is a Cubs and Brewers pissing match, not something regarding the Cubs and Cardinals, I'm sure Cubs and Cardinals fans alike will agree that we mainly think of the Brewers as the recently added red-headed stepchild of the family who no one really likes or cares all that much about. It's almost as if there is some sort of inferiority complex with Brewers fans feeling the need to prove themselves to Cubs and Cardinal fans, when in reality, I consider the Brewers and their fans more annoying than anything. Sure, I don't like the Brewers or their fans, but I don't feel the hatred towards them that I do towards the Cardinals and their fans. I don't think I am alone in saying that I consider the Brewers to be like an annoying, pesky fly or gnat that just won't leave you alone.
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And since this is a Cubs and Brewers pissing match, not something regarding the Cubs and Cardinals, I'm sure Cubs and Cardinals fans alike will agree that we mainly think of the Brewers as the recently added red-headed stepchild of the family who no one really likes or cares all that much about. It's almost as if there is some sort of inferiority complex with Brewers fans feeling the need to prove themselves to Cubs and Cardinal fans, when in reality, I consider the Brewers and their fans more annoying than anything. Sure, I don't like the Brewers or their fans, but I don't feel the hatred towards them that I do towards the Cardinals and their fans. I don't think I am alone in saying that I consider the Brewers to be like an annoying, pesky fly or gnat that just won't leave you alone.
Don't worry, as a Brewer fan, I find Cub fans the exact same way you find Brewer fans. Find a girl who is a Cub fan in the city of Milwaukee, and you will most certainly find a rich father behind her, and they don't know baseball, they just base it off the common name of the Chicago Cubs. Being a Cubs fan is "cool" like being a Red Sox fan.
I think the reason why us Brewer fans seem "annoying to you" and that "we are trying to find a way to fit in" is because of the lack of respect we get. First game of the season, when the Brewers beat the Cubs in extra innings in Wrigley. ESPN covered about 15-20 minutes on the Fukudome HR (which as a baseball fan, I can understand why, it is a big deal for people in Japan) however don't even dulge into the game, don't show that the Brewers won the game, or anything. When you say we are trying to belong, no thats not it, we are just trying to get enough respect to be seen as a competitive baseball club this year. We make a move to get the reigning AL Cy Young award winner, we may have the best 1-2 pitching punch in the whole MLB. In my eyes the best three teams could well be in the NL Central, maybe with the Mets and Phillies being thrown in there.
The thing is Cubs fans act like they are better then everyone, when in fact, many don't know crap about their own ball club. This isn't going against the Cub fans that talk on here, because a lot of you are knowledgeable. So marqptm, before you shout out all of your "knowledgeable" stats on Cub fans and how smart they are, just realize that there are plenty of Cub fans that talk nothing but about the Chicago Cubs, when all they speak is hot air.
Trust me eaglewarrior, the feeling is mutual about who the most annoying fans are, you think Brewers, I, along with most of the Brewer fans, think Cubs fans are the most annoying. Maybe thats where our hatred for the Chicago Cubs come from.
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Don't worry, as a Brewer fan, I find Cub fans the exact same way you find Brewer fans. Find a girl who is a Cub fan in the city of Milwaukee, and you will most certainly find a rich father behind her, and they don't know baseball, they just base it off the common name of the Chicago Cubs. Being a Cubs fan is "cool" like being a Red Sox fan.
I think the reason why us Brewer fans seem "annoying to you" and that "we are trying to find a way to fit in" is because of the lack of respect we get. First game of the season, when the Brewers beat the Cubs in extra innings in Wrigley. ESPN covered about 15-20 minutes on the Fukudome HR (which as a baseball fan, I can understand why, it is a big deal for people in Japan) however don't even dulge into the game, don't show that the Brewers won the game, or anything. When you say we are trying to belong, no thats not it, we are just trying to get enough respect to be seen as a competitive baseball club this year. We make a move to get the reigning AL Cy Young award winner, we may have the best 1-2 pitching punch in the whole MLB. In my eyes the best three teams could well be in the NL Central, maybe with the Mets and Phillies being thrown in there.
The thing is Cubs fans act like they are better then everyone, when in fact, many don't know crap about their own ball club. This isn't going against the Cub fans that talk on here, because a lot of you are knowledgeable. So marqptm, before you shout out all of your "knowledgeable" stats on Cub fans and how smart they are, just realize that there are plenty of Cub fans that talk nothing but about the Chicago Cubs, when all they speak is hot air.
Trust me eaglewarrior, the feeling is mutual about who the most annoying fans are, you think Brewers, I, along with most of the Brewer fans, think Cubs fans are the most annoying. Maybe thats where our hatred for the Chicago Cubs come from.
I mean this in the most sincere way: good, solid, rational post.
And I certainly won't disagree with you that often times being a Cubs fan is the "cool" thing, but I think a lot of that is historically based on the fact that the Cubs have always been broadcast on WGN and thus have a more national fan base. Some people have been raised Cubs fans even though they didn't necessarily grow up in Chicago.
And I won't disagree about the fact that there is a pocket of Cubs fans that think they are better than everyone (hopefully I'm not in that bunch). As before, I'll argue that every team has their group of fans who really don't know jack about their team or the sport. I certainly ran into plenty of Brewer fans like that as I am a recent graduate of Marquette. It seems like more and more MU students are beginning to hop on the Brewer bandwagon even though they are from Chicago or couldn't care less about baseball. I consider that the most annoying type of Brewer fan, much like you are annoyed by "rich" Cubs fans.
Us true Cubs fans are often just as annoyed with the Wrigley fans as you Brewers and Cardinals fans are.
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eaglewarrior08, I too, am annoyed with some Brewer fans like you are annoyed with as you call them "Wrigley fans" (which is a fantastic way of putting them in a group, is this like an unwritten rule as to what type of fan they are? Really, it classifies them well, want to be a part of the history and place themselves in the category as a fan, but when you come down to it, they really aren't). Being a Brewer fan my whole 23 year life, I have never seen a playoff game that included my team, I have hardly even sniffed a playoff game, I am hungry, much like you are hungry for a World Series title. Last year I thought was the year for the Brewers, I sincerely did, and it killed me to watch the collapse, but I would be a liar if I told you I didn't see it coming. They are all young players, never been in this type of atmosphere before. This year I truly think is the year we break the '82 curse (see how I did that?). I don't own any Green Bay Packer apparel, no Milwaukee Bucks apparel, the only professional team whose apparel I own is the Milwaukee Brewers, and I own quite a bit (including an original Milwaukee Brewer shirt that has the old school logo, along with stating "American League", the thing is old.)
There is a new crop of Brewer fans, and I can't get too mad. They have passion for this team, and love to flaunt it, even if its at the expense of other fans. Much like what "wrigley fans" do. They don't realize that I believe in 2002 the Brewers won a total of 56 games. They don't remember in the 90's when the Brewers were the equivalent to the present day Kansas City Royals for the all-star game, and our player was just thrown in there because it was a rule (Rickey Bones anyone?).
What I am trying to say is nothing has been worse then watching ESPN for the past 4-5 months as a state of Wisconsin (and Marquette) fan. Between the Brett Favre saga, Cubs constantly on Game of the Night, Tom Crean leaving(although this one might seem like a blessing in disguise), the Bucks still taking a dump on the city of Milwaukee's chest(although who cares about the NBA). However, I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully if the Brewers make some noise in September and hopefully into October and November, then we will get some respect.
Yeah, since this wasn't much for a pissing match post, and realized that about half way through the post... I have to add something
Fukudome still sounds like you are doing the nasty.
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well said Mayor. I have to agree with you on just about everything. I too am a long running Crew fan. Have a reversible '94-'99 jersey that I don proudly whenever heading to a game at Miller Park. I've been a lifelong Brewers fan as well and when it comes to the Chicagoans that become Brewer "fans" after coming to MU, I'm with eaglewarrior08 on how I feel about them. Let's see what these last 60 games hold with a tight race in the NL Central. Whoever says it isn't is kidding themselves.
Go Brewers!!!
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A lot of very strong comments made. A few comments:
Just because they are "Wrigley Fans" or "New Brewer Fans" doesn't mean they aren't fans. They don't need to be discredited because they don't know every bullpen arm or the top Farm System prospects. I would breakdown fan bases into four easy categories:
1.) Rabid: Crazy to the point where they are ridiculously blind for their team.Impossible to have a regular conversation about baseball without being overran by ridiculousness. see http://www.desipio.com/?p=1474
2.) Smart: Well educated, knows a team weaknesses. Someone that can actually respect another's baseball team, and can throw smart jabs at another fan.
3.) Casual: Knowledgeable, and tell you more than half the roster. Keeps with with the division standings and/or playoff races.
4.) Clueless: The Chicago/Milwaukee transplant that starts to enjoy the team because they moved there. They can't name more than 10 major league players.
In my Wisconsin(Packers, Bucks, Brewers, MU, WU) overall experience this would be my breakdown. Rabid: 40%, Smart: 20%, Casual: 20%, Clueless: 20%.
Across the line: Rabid: 20%, Smart: 30%, Casual: 35%, Clueless: 15%
White Sox Fans: Meth Heads: 35%, Dealers: 25%, Incarcerated: 40%
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Going back to the rivalry thing, I guess we will just have to disagree PTM and Eagle.
I pretty much agree with everyone's else comments regarding fans. Each teams has their obnoxious ones, their uneducated ones, their bandwagon ones...etc. There is nothing you can do about it but accept it and move on. Thats why its kind of annoying to hear people say they hate a certain team because they went to a game at the opposite stadium/field/arena and their fans were jerks or obnoxious. Every team, including your own, has those. There are better reasons to hate another team (geography, history, loyaltyies..etc).
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A lot of very strong comments made. A few comments:
Just because they are "Wrigley Fans" or "New Brewer Fans" doesn't mean they aren't fans. They don't need to be discredited because they don't know every bullpen arm or the top Farm System prospects. I would breakdown fan bases into four easy categories:
1.) Rabid: Crazy to the point where they are ridiculously blind for their team.Impossible to have a regular conversation about baseball without being overran by ridiculousness. see http://www.desipio.com/?p=1474
2.) Smart: Well educated, knows a team weaknesses. Someone that can actually respect another's baseball team, and can throw smart jabs at another fan.
3.) Casual: Knowledgeable, and tell you more than half the roster. Keeps with with the division standings and/or playoff races.
4.) Clueless: The Chicago/Milwaukee transplant that starts to enjoy the team because they moved there. They can't name more than 10 major league players.
In my Wisconsin(Packers, Bucks, Brewers, MU, WU) overall experience this would be my breakdown. Rabid: 40%, Smart: 20%, Casual: 20%, Clueless: 20%.
Across the line: Rabid: 20%, Smart: 30%, Casual: 35%, Clueless: 15%
White Sox Fans: Meth Heads: 35%, Dealers: 25%, Incarcerated: 40%
As a White Sox fan, that's none of the above, you're comment is stupid, dumb, ignorant, and pointless, all wrapped into one.
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As a White Sox fan, that's none of the above, you're comment is stupid, dumb, ignorant, and pointless, all wrapped into one.
Clearly PTM forgot one category of White Sox fans
Lame with no sense of humor
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Clearly PTM forgot one category of White Sox fans
Lame with no sense of humor
I expected it, there is no sense of humor on the south side. They're too busy being gritty, the blue-collar worker and grindy to be humorous.
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Stay classy Cubs farm system. Stay classy
http://deadspin.com/5029015/mayhem-in-the-midwest-league
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Actually us Sox fans are too busy watching the 2005 World Series champion DVD and getting ready for another playoff run this year.
Funny, I can't find a 1908 Cubs World Series DVD to watch. Must not have had DVD's back then, probably because it was 100 years ago I'm assuming.
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Actually us Sox fans are too busy watching the 2005 World Series champion DVD and getting ready for another playoff run this year.
Funny, I can't find a 1908 Cubs World Series DVD to watch. Must not have had DVD's back then, probably because it was 100 years ago I'm assuming.
Saw that coming as well. This will be followed up by expletives in Spanglish and probably an anti-homosexual comment.
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It might have been 25 years ago, but god bless Lee Elia. Gotta love when the manager of your favorite team calls the fans of said team ****suckers.
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It might have been 25 years ago, but god bless Lee Elia. Gotta love when the manager of your favorite team calls the fans of said team ****suckers.
I wasn't alive, but it's a great audio clip. As a Cub fan, I love it. When a manager who does such a terrible job comes out to blast the fans who are giving it to him for his poor performance, the fans in question put forth a remarkable effort.
Keep chanting "PAULIE, PAULIE, PAULIE".
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Paulie, Paulie, Paulie is a pretty week comeback, but good luck to the Cubs the rest of the season. I support my team, and don't get overly concerned with what the Cubs do (unless I get invited into an argument).
Cubs have their hands full, as do the Sox. If the rumors are true, and the Duchscherer for Fields trade goes through, the White Sox will be in great shape to not only win the division, but to contend for the AL pennant.
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Stay classy Cubs farm system. Stay classy
http://deadspin.com/5029015/mayhem-in-the-midwest-league
Yep, that's definitely relevant to the divisional race.
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Paulie, Paulie, Paulie is a pretty week comeback, but good luck to the Cubs the rest of the season. I support my team, and don't get overly concerned with what the Cubs do (unless I get invited into an argument).
Cubs have their hands full, as do the Sox. If the rumors are true, and the Duchscherer for Fields trade goes through, the White Sox will be in great shape to not only win the division, but to contend for the AL pennant.
Can the fans really keep chanting his name? He's really hurting the team right now.
The Dushscherer trade would be great. Weren't they talking Fields + a player? Can't believe Beane is packing the season up already...
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Clearly PTM forgot one category of White Sox fans
Lame with no sense of humor
Who are the White Sox?
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http://www.theonion.com/content/news/c_c_sabathia_prince_fielder_keep?utm_source=onion_rss_daily
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It might have been 25 years ago, but god bless Lee Elia. Gotta love when the manager of your favorite team calls the fans of said team ****suckers.
I'm not sure about this one....but isn't it the slightest bit ironic that a White Sox fan would rip on ANY other team's manager (past or present) for an explitive-laced tirade? Hilarious.
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Fun fact: The radio voice of the Peoria Chiefs, Nathan Baliva is a Marquette grad (and friend of mine).
Duchscherer for Fields and Pedroia is the rumored deal, you're correct. Kenny Williams is actually trying to get Halladay (via a 3 way deal with allegedly Boston), but I just can not seeing that happening.
Was I ripping on Lee Elia? If so, I missed that. I wasn't ripping him by any stretch. Both Chicago managers are known for their explitive-laced tirades. If you think Ozzie is bad, it's only because he does it publicly. Lou is just as bad. And for the record, I like that both Chicago managers have that fire, it's good for a baseball team.
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I had heard that the Cubs had a minor-league equivalent of Len Kasper, Marquette and all, nice.
I had heard those Halladay rumors, but thought they were shot down as the Jays plan on moving him in the offseason.
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Yep, that's definitely relevant to the divisional race.
Thanks '94 for your insight...clearly you need some help in the definition of what a "pissing match" debate is
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pissing+match
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And for the record, I like that both Chicago managers have that fire, it's good for a baseball team.
Agreed....having Lou and Ozzie in town has made baseball a lot fun to follow in Chicago.
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I like Lou's fire but better yet, I like Lou's senior moments. Any press conference after the game, he's always searching for a word, or asking what happened. Funny guy!
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Thanks '94 for your insight...clearly you need some help in the definition of what a "pissing match" debate is
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pissing+match
You're welcome, reinko, always happy to help out a fellow MU fan. I thought you could use some help staying on track. Not sure a brawl involving one of the Cubs Class A affiliates has a connection to this "pissing match." I heard someone got food poisoning at the Friday's at Miller Park during the last homestand.
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008/jul/13/chattanooga-lookouts-fight-way-victory/?sports
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You're welcome, reinko, always happy to help out a fellow MU fan. I thought you could use some help staying on track. Not sure a brawl involving one of the Cubs Class A affiliates has a connection to this "pissing match." I heard someone got food poisoning at the Friday's at Miller Park during the last homestand.
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2008/jul/13/chattanooga-lookouts-fight-way-victory/?sports
A lot of discussion earlier had been about the Brewers having brought up their talent through their farm system and arguing who's farm system is better, so I don't see why bringing that fight up is off topic...it's part of the Cubs organization, right? By the way, that pitcher throwing the ball towards the other team's dugout, pretty Bush League. Maybe he'll get out of jail soon...
As for the article in the Onion, it was funny at first, but after the thousandth story/joke about Prince's weight, it gets a little old. Not to mention, he's a vegetarian, so I doubt he imagines CC as a hot dog...
Call me crazy, but I'd be willing to bet these aren't the only 2 overweight players in the MLB.
Also, whoever was raving about how the Cubs weren't putting Wood on the DL after all...you're wrong (not that that's surprising knowing it's Kerry Wood).
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Whatever happened to the guy that was arrested for urinating while waiting in line to get into Friday's?
CC and Prince have to be in the top 5 for fattest.
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and you'd be happy to have either of them on your team.
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and you'd be happy to have either of them on your team.
CC, yes. Not Prince.
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Whatever happened to the guy that was arrested for urinating while waiting in line to get into Friday's?
CC and Prince have to be in the top 5 for fattest.
I'm not even sure about that. Prince is probably up there, but while CC is overweight for sure, he's not HUGE considering he's 6'7".
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I'm not even sure about that. Prince is probably up there, but while CC is overweight for sure, he's not HUGE considering he's 6'7".
I miss Ray King. He would have fit in well with CC and Prince. Plus the Brewers could always use another good lefty in the bullpen. If CC is the chili dog and Prince is the hamburger, what would that make King? A bucket of ribs or wings?
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I'm not even sure about that. Prince is probably up there, but while CC is overweight for sure, he's not HUGE considering he's 6'7".
Really? (http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/sabathia.jpg)
I miss Ray King. He would have fit in well with CC and Prince. Plus the Brewers could always use another good lefty in the bullpen. If CC is the chili dog and Prince is the hamburger, what would that make King? A bucket of ribs or wings?
Ray King dropped a ton of weight this offseason. http://www.nationalsenquirer.com/2008/02/king-sized-weig.html (http://www.nationalsenquirer.com/2008/02/king-sized-weig.html)
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Really? (http://www.clevelandleader.com/files/sabathia.jpg)
Ray King dropped a ton of weight this offseason. http://www.nationalsenquirer.com/2008/02/king-sized-weig.html (http://www.nationalsenquirer.com/2008/02/king-sized-weig.html)
You're really going to base it off of one picture from when he was on the Indians? Brad Eldred, David Wells, David Ortiz, Bob Wickman, Jonathan Broxton, Antonio Alfonseca, Dmitri Young, Walter Young, David Wells, Frank Thomas, Ramon Hernandez, Bartolo Colon, Sidney Ponson, Bobby Jenks, Toby Hall, Billy Butler, Dennys Reyes, Marlon Byrd, Willy Mo Pena, Joe Blanton, Runelvys Hernandez, Matt Capps, Yhency Brazoban, Tyler Walker, and Yusmeiro Petit are all as big as CC is (might not be as heavy but also aren't 6'7").
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It's been too quiet on here today so...
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I heard that Rich Harden wants to be back in Oakland with the lack of run support he receives in Chicago, he's worried he'll never record a win with the Cubs...that's saying something when you get more run support in Oakland.
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Looks like we have a 1st place tie! It's gonna be a hell of a battle for the rest of the season. GO BREWERS!!
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Picking up Harden is still a good acquisition but the guy definitely is not an innings eater. He's got electric stuff, and he's obviously shown that as a Cub, but his starts tax the bullpen and gives the other team a good chance to pick up the win when they are able to face relievers that early in games.
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Picking up Harden is still a good acquisition but the guy definitely is not an innings eater. He's got electric stuff, and he's obviously shown that as a Cub, but his starts tax the bullpen and gives the other team a good chance to pick up the win when they are able to face relievers that early in games.
Oh yeah the pickup was great for them, definitely not saying Harden is bad, just having a little fun since he can't get out of a 6th inning and can't pick up a win. He was the 2nd best pitcher on the market, and since the best was traded to the Brewers they got the best of what was left (and sorry but anyone who claims Harden is better than Sabathia is a fool). LET'S GO CREW! I'm getting kicked out of Monday's game...can't wait.
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This just in, Milwaukee will have the first place team. They'll be in the visitor's dugout!
I'll make my prediction. Cubs win 3 of 4. Anyone one else care to make one?
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yeah, I predict that they do not bring Suppan back next year and replace Bush with McClung the rest of the way.
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This just in, Milwaukee will have the first place team. They'll be in the visitor's dugout!
I'll make my prediction. Cubs win 3 of 4. Anyone one else care to make one?
Damn you're clever. Milwaukee had a 1st place team in Miller Park today too.
Milwaukee takes 3 of 4. Cubs can't even beat the Brewers in Wrigley, did you forget that? 2-4 at home against them? And the Brewers aren't even good on the road!
Sabathia over Lilly, Sheets over Zambrano, Parra over Dumpster, and Harden over Bush (although it'll be a no decision).
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Damn you're clever. Milwaukee had a 1st place team in Miller Park today too.
Milwaukee takes 3 of 4. Cubs can't even beat the Brewers in Wrigley, did you forget that? 2-4 at home against them? And the Brewers aren't even good on the road!
Sabathia over Lilly, Sheets over Zambrano, Parra over Dumpster, and Harden over Bush (although it'll be a no decision).
We were 4-2 in Miller last year, only 5-4 in Wrigley.
2006: 4-3 in Miller, 4-5 in Wrigley.
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We were 4-2 in Miller last year, only 5-4 in Wrigley.
2006: 4-3 in Miller, 4-5 in Wrigley.
Guess we'll see what happens, should be an interesting series.
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This just in, Milwaukee will have the first place team. They'll be in the visitor's dugout!
I'll make my prediction. Cubs win 3 of 4. Anyone one else care to make one?
3 of 4 for the brew crew!!!!
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In all reality, I see the brew crew winning the first and third game. Brewers hit lefties well and have CC the first game (brewers). Sheets and Z will be a battle that I feel the cubs can pull out (cubs). Parra and dempster could also be a good battle and Parra is pitching really well right now (brewers). Thursday ill take harden over bush...they have been keeping harden to a low pitch count to save him, keep him off the DL. I assume if they need him to pitch 100 pitches for this game, they wil let him.
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After the Yosting that took place today, coupled with the Cubs comeback... Cubs take 3 of 4.
The Brewers lost all momentum from that roadtrip and are in a huge mental funk at the plate, as well as Nedly's brilliant pitching platoon mates. Cubs have momentum, and a manager with a brain.
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Split.
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Split.
Oh yeah the pickup was great for them, definitely not saying Harden is bad, just having a little fun since he can't get out of a 6th inning and can't pick up a win. He was the 2nd best pitcher on the market, and since the best was traded to the Brewers they got the best of what was left (and sorry but anyone who claims Harden is better than Sabathia is a fool). LET'S GO CREW! I'm getting kicked out of Monday's game...can't wait.
So many things wrong with this statement. You are planning on getting kicked out? And Cubs fans are obnoxious?
Harden's been limited because there's no reason to keep him in there. We're in first place, and there's a lot of season left to play. No sense in pushing a delicate arm when it's unnecessary.
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3296/2708817333_7f4159de29_m.jpg)
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3296/2708817333_7f4159de29_m.jpg)
Even as as Brewers fan, I find this hilarious.
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Split.
Harden's been limited because there's no reason to keep him in there. We're in first place, and there's a lot of season left to play. No sense in pushing a delicate arm when it's unnecessary.
Yeah, i'm pretty sure harden would have been able to come out for the 6th after only throwing 84 pitches if it was september
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After the Yosting that took place today, coupled with the Cubs comeback... Cubs take 3 of 4.
The Brewers lost all momentum from that roadtrip and are in a huge mental funk at the plate, as well as Nedly's brilliant pitching platoon mates. Cubs have momentum, and a manager with a brain.
yup... sure in a mental funk at the plate... have you seen Ryan Braun's stats after the all-star break? No player has been better then him after the all-star break. The brewers are ready for this series, all the quotes during the Astros series was about the Cubs. The brewers didn't lose momentum, not at all, Astros have been a Brewer killer this year, and it wasn't any different in the past series.
Brewers take 3 of 4.
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If your "stud" pitcher is gettin' pulled after 84 pitchers because you want to save him for the playoffs, your team has issues. Take off the mini skirt and throw.
And BTW, CC has more complete games in the month of July than Harden has in his entire career since 2003.
Can't wait for the excuse this year. Already blamed it on a dude that wears a turtleneck and some livestock. What's next??
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Our bullpen can handle innings without anyone getting worried. On the other hand there's a reason why CC goes complete games.
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Our bullpen can handle innings without anyone getting worried. On the other hand there's a reason why CC goes complete games.
because he can? Trust me, Yost doesn't make CC pitch a complete game whether he can or not... CC can pitch a complete game... he is 4-0 with the Brewers, so why not have him pitch a complete game, try to not make this a bullpen issue, because it's not, and I know you marqptm, a smart baseball guy, knows its not. Its because CC Sabathia wants to go all 9 innings, and if he can, which he is fully capable of, then he will.
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as much as i hate the pitch count, look at what CC's has been during those shutouts. Around 115 through 9 innings! that's the reason he continues to go 9...because he's dominating the crap out of his opponents.
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Our bullpen can handle innings without anyone getting worried. On the other hand there's a reason why CC goes complete games.
As a huge Cubs fan, I'll have to disagree with you there. Our pen has not been what it was in the earlier months of the year. Marmol has been shaky lately (17 ERs and 18 BBs in his past 21 innings; I think he forgot he has a fastball too). All he does is throw that slider, and well, if you can't throw your breaking ball for strikes, you are going to run into some serious trouble. And in my personal opinion, Bob Howry should only be pitching in mop-up duty. 9 ERs in less than 12 innings this month? He's absolutely terrible. Awful. I can't say enough bad things about him. I really wish they would DFA him so that Lou can't keep trotting him out there anymore.
Nothing wrong with Harden only going 6ish innings in his starts in hopes to keep in healthy during the stretch. I'll take 6 innings of 1 or 2 run ball any day of the week. Your pen is there for a reason, but unfortunately, I have not had much confidence in ours lately.
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Game 1: Gotta take CC over Lilly although CC can't win all his starts can he? Can you win Cy young for pitching half a season?
Game 2: Give this one to Zambrano over Sheets in a close one. They both can have that bad inning on occasion, but Zambrano is due for a win.
Game 3: Parra edges Dempster as Cubs lineup struggles against the young lefty. Dempster only one road victory.
Game 4: Harden over Bush. Can Harden actually get a win? Struck out 10 in 5 innings on Saturday. Bush gives up a few homers in this one. Bullpen actually holds on to this one and the golden domer gets his second save.
Overall we get a split and are right back where we started. But should be fun, especially exciting for July.
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Game 1: Gotta take CC over Lilly although CC can't win all his starts can he? Can you win Cy young for pitching half a season?
Game 2: Give this one to Zambrano over Sheets in a close one. They both can have that bad inning on occasion, but Zambrano is due for a win.
Game 3: Parra edges Dempster as Cubs lineup struggles against the young lefty. Dempster only one road victory.
Game 4: Harden over Bush. Can Harden actually get a win? Struck out 10 in 5 innings on Saturday. Bush gives up a few homers in this one. Bullpen actually holds on to this one and the golden domer gets his second save.
I agree, except the Cubs have been hitting leftys well, so I take Dempster the all-star over Parra.
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I watched the 9th inning tonight, a lot of Cubs fans in Dairyland. Reminded me of last week when the Red Sox were in town and their fans were here....of course we sent them hope unhappy that weekend.
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Cubs= professional hitters
Brewers= beer league softball team.
I'm a Brewer fan. Cub fans enjoy taking 3 this week.
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(http://www.myspace.digitalalcoholics.com/cubssuck/tradition2.gif)
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Cubs= professional hitters
Brewers= beer league softball team.
I'm a Brewer fan. Cub fans enjoy taking 3 this week.
not sure I agree with the "beer league softball team" comment, but I too am afraid the Cubs will take 3 of 4. Goddamn Ricky Weeks....
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As long as the brewers keep jacking HRs...I am happy with it, because they are only solos. Not going to win too many game getting 75% of your runs via the solo HR ball! If the cubs limit the walks, they willl be fine!
And as for the tradition picture, funny a team that hasn't entered the playoffs since '82 can put something like that.
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If your "stud" pitcher is gettin' pulled after 84 pitchers because you want to save him for the playoffs, your team has issues. Take off the mini skirt and throw.
They aren't saving him for the playoffs! They knew they took a risk that a guy that has been on the DL a bunch of times. They are just being careful with him to make sure he doesn't have to go there again. Sorry he isn't pitching 120 pitches per game.
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Goddamn Ricky Weeks....
Was a good take out slide by Reed Johnson to cause bad throw.
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Was a good take out slide by Reed Johnson to cause bad throw.
Really was, he ran to where Rickie was going to be, executed perfectly. Rickie really had no chance, his best bet would have been to hand onto the ball.
Great game all-around, even if the Cubs lost, still was very exciting.
Listening to talk radio this morning, a lot of complaints about the Milwaukee hospitality, fans were flat out angry at any Cubs fan. geez, couple this series with the Favre fiasco, and I'm worried about the heart attack rate in Wisconsin.
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Really was, he ran to where Rickie was going to be, executed perfectly. Rickie really had no chance, his best bet would have been to hand onto the ball.
Great game all-around, even if the Cubs lost, still was very exciting.
Listening to talk radio this morning, a lot of complaints about the Milwaukee hospitality, fans were flat out angry at any Cubs fan. geez, couple this series with the Favre fiasco, and I'm worried about the heart attack rate in Wisconsin.
Yeah it was a great game. It seemed like the Cubs caught every break, but can't really complain because even so if Rickie makes that play it's a different ball game. I thought he had a chance to make that play, he had enough time I thought, and I thought he got taken out after he threw it, but I was at the game and only saw it once.
I really didn't think the Brewers fans were all that bad. I didn't think they were worse than the Cubs fans by any means. From my experience a Brewers fan would just yell "Let's go Brewers!" at a Cubs fan walking by (really not a bad thing, just having some fun...I'd hope they'd say something) and then a Cubs fan would retaliate, sometimes bad words got involved but it went both ways from what I saw.
At least we don't throw things at your left fielder while he is trying to play a ball in the corner ;). Or have to have nets to keep parts of our stadium from falling and injuring fans.
Tonight's going to be an awesome game, and I can't wait.
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Really a great game to be at. Great atmosphere. Back and forth. Lots of jawing and yelling.
This was a bit infuriating:
BEHIND THE BOX SCORE
• Brewers shortstop J.J. Hardy made a fabulous play to retire Alfonso Soriano in the fifth inning after CC Sabathia deflected his liner up the middle. Hardy made a bare-hand scoop of the ball and fired a one-hop throw to Prince Fielder for the out.
• Third-base umpire Doug Eddings made two calls on key, close plays that went against the Brewers. In the sixth inning, Eddings called Corey Hart out trying to take third on a throw home that first baseman Lee cut off. In the seventh, he called Cedeño safe at third on a double steal as Soriano struck out. Replays indicated that Hart was safe and Cedeño was out.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=777316
I guess that's what I should expect when the Cubs come to town...
Couple that with Rickie Weeks blowing a double play ball, and you have your deciding factors right there.
Get 'em tonight, boys.
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Cedeno and Hart were both out.
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Cedeno and Hart were both out.
Are you just saying this from your one time watching the game live last night? I DVR'ed it and I've watched each of those plays 5 or 6 times this morning. The Journal Sentinel isn't lying. Hart was safe and Cedeno was out.
Hart would have scored on Hall's broken bat single to center, and Cedeno would have been the second out of the inning, in which the Brewers recorded the next (and potentially final) out.
I watched the botched DP again, and Reed Johnson's slide was MUCH better than I thought live at the game. Brewer fans still have a gripe because an AVERAGE second baseman makes that play, but to say Johnson didn't impact the throw and it all revolves around Rickie sucking, that's simply not true.
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Cedeno got that call because Hall was out of position. For some reason, Hall was not able to get to the bag in time and caught the ball behind the runner. He may have tagged Cedeno on the back or shoulder, but Cedeno reached 3rd base before Hall did, so Cedeno got the benefit of the call.
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Are you just saying this from your one time watching the game live last night? I DVR'ed it and I've watched each of those plays 5 or 6 times this morning. The Journal Sentinel isn't lying. Hart was safe and Cedeno was out.
Hart would have scored on Hall's broken bat single to center, and Cedeno would have been the second out of the inning, in which the Brewers recorded the next (and potentially final) out.
I watched the botched DP again, and Reed Johnson's slide was MUCH better than I thought live at the game. Brewer fans still have a gripe because an AVERAGE second baseman makes that play, but to say Johnson didn't impact the throw and it all revolves around Rickie sucking, that's simply not true.
I made a mistake, I meant they were both not out after the replay. Hall was not playing to make that tag, the ump was all over it. But in the end, the calls were made the way they were.
The Cubs are filled with average second basemen, I wouldn't expect DeRosa, Theriot or Fontenot to make that throw. The smart move was to get the out at second, and not risk what Rickie did.
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So can a brewers fan tell me why you picked up ray durham? He looked pretty good on the bench yesterday!
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was a good game to watch as a brewers fan, but in the end a little depressing. Despite the close calls and the botched DP the brewers were in position in the 9th to at least hold the Cubs. Walking two batters in the 9th is a recipie for disaster and it ended up biting the team in the ass.
Also, despite what I hear announcers and talk show hosts say, I think that Torres needs more than one night off every 5 days. The man has pitched more innings than anyone in the bullpen. I realize he is the closer, but you can't trot your tired closer out there every night and expect him to be perfect. At this point, Torres has 5 blown saves, and isn't really pitching that well.
On the other hand, (and I KNOW I am going to get crap for this) Eric Gagne has been pitching very well his last 5 outings giving up zero runs. Maybe it is time to send Torres back to his NORMAL role of being a great arm in relief, and let Gagne have a second chance out there when it counts.
I will be at the game tonight, unfortunately I can't really tailgate before tonights game. I'm not sure where your info on Brewer fan's hostility, but I have never heard anything like that at any game. Even in Green Bay, at Packer games vs. the Vikes or Bears, the fans are civil... where there is actually a rivalry. I doubt there is anything that really gets out of hand.
Also, realize that this is the first time in years that the Brewers are actually doing something, and playing competitive ball... so yelling things like, "Go Brewers!" at a Cubs fan should probably just be shrugged off by a 'veteran' fan. Yelling "Go Cubs!" back is fine, but going back and saying "F*** the Brewers!" is going to get 90% of fans pissed off at you (Same goes for Brewers fans saying the same). Also, understand that you aren't at Wrigley field. You aren't exactly going to be welcome, and acting like you are at a home game is just the type of jack-assary that will start things. Cheer for your team, fine, but display some class, and maybe you will shed the general perception that Cubs fans show up for the beer, and to heckle.
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So can a brewers fan tell me why you picked up ray durham? He looked pretty good on the bench yesterday!
Completely agree. Rickie should have been sat from the day that Durham was signed. I am not exactly sure why Yost is willing to trade for a starter to have him sit on the bench behind a guy who is batting much worse, and playing worse defense.
its Yostian.
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Ask Yost. no one really knows his thought process behind most of the stuff he does...heck, i doubt he knows what he's doing w/ some of the moves he makes.
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I was at the game yesterday, standing room behind the right field bleachers. There were multiple problems of people throwing bottles and cups and people. Many stemmed from the end of the game in the bot of the 9th. But thats what happens when u get 2 fan bases together that are drunk i guess. Usually its the drunks that cause problems.
On other notes, some brewers fan got arrested for public urination, peeing behind a concession stand. Hilarious the bathroom was just to the right of it!!
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Great game last night at Wrigley North. For those criticizing the Cubs fans...give me a break. Every team has their share of belligerent and ignorant fans...the Cubs are certainly no exception. For every "Cubs suck" comment from a Brewer fan there is almost an equally as eloquent, "Brewers Suck" or "F the Brewers" comment coming back...as annoying as it is for respectful, avid fans it goes with the territory.
How about that rousing ovation when Derrek Lee fouled a ball off his foot and was standing with his hands on his knees fighting off the pain....now that was classy.
As long as Yost is managing the Brewers I will continue to feel better about the Cubs chances. Where is Ray Durham? (Nice throw Rickie) He leaves the highest paid set-up man in major league history to face Ward (Lefty) with Fukudome (another Lefty) on deck with his only left-handed reliever warming up in the bullpen. Granted, it didn't come back to bite him but not sure what he was thinking....oh well, didn't have an impact on the game.
I forget who it was that compared Soriano to Cameron.....not sure it's a push though....pretty sure I'd rather have Soriano in the lineup...especially against CC who he has owned.
Was that a wasted start by CC? While Harden's first win as a Cub will finally come on Thursday it was nice to see Gaudin (also acquired in the Harden deal) strike out the side and pick up his second win in as many days.
Should be another entertaining game tonight....hopefully Z has his head on straight and raises his record to 4-1 against Sheets in head-to-head games...with the Cubs only hitting .132 against Benji this year it's not going to be easy.
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So can a brewers fan tell me why you picked up ray durham? He looked pretty good on the bench yesterday!
Rickie has a little better #s against lefties this year:
Weeks:
93 ab
.247 avg
.409 slg
.366 obp
3 hr
5 rbi
3 sb
Durham:
68 abs
.221 avg
.324 slg
.354 obp
1 hr
9rbi
2 sb
Weeks has also actually been pretty hot since the all-star break as well going .286/.409/.514 in the 10 games since. He had a bad game last night and he will prolly never be the world beater everyone expected, but he is still key to the Brewers attack as he still scores a lot of runs (t-12 in the NL). I would like to see Durham play about 1 out of every 3 games just to keep both guys fresh and give the lineup a change of pace, but who know what Yost will do (Durham has started 2 of 8 games since being acquired).
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I forget who it was that compared Soriano to Cameron.....not sure it's a push though....pretty sure I'd rather have Soriano in the lineup...especially against CC who he has owned.
That was me. Soriano definitely had a great game last night, but I think he still is overrated as a player. Nearly getting thrown out at second in the first (no harm in the end) and misplaying the Hart double allowing Fielder to score are two things a lot of people are going to overlook when they see the boxscore. Of course, without him the Cubs prolly don't win but I don't think he is worth the money he's getting, especially as he gets older. Cameron also threw Lee out at home plate last night but did look pretty bad at the plate.
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I was at the game yesterday, standing room behind the right field bleachers. There were multiple problems of people throwing bottles and cups and people. Many stemmed from the end of the game in the bot of the 9th. But thats what happens when u get 2 fan bases together that are drunk i guess. Usually its the drunks that cause problems.
IMO, the right field bleachers have always seemed to be the most hostile part of the park.
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Rickie has a little better #s against lefties this year:
Weeks:
93 ab
.247 avg
.409 slg
.366 obp
3 hr
5 rbi
3 sb
Durham:
68 abs
.221 avg
.324 slg
.354 obp
1 hr
9rbi
2 sb
Weeks has also actually been pretty hot since the all-star break as well going .286/.409/.514 in the 10 games since. He had a bad game last night and he will prolly never be the world beater everyone expected, but he is still key to the Brewers attack as he still scores a lot of runs (t-12 in the NL). I would like to see Durham play about 1 out of every 3 games just to keep both guys fresh and give the lineup a change of pace, but who know what Yost will do (Durham has started 2 of 8 games since being acquired).
I would think though that Yost would look at matchups.....Weeks last AB was against a RHP, Howry, who he is 1 for 9 against in his career versus Durham who is 2 for 5....granted, neither has a lot of experience against Howry but you'd think he'd go with the Righty-Lefty match-up at that point?
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IMO, the right field bleachers have always seemed to be the most hostile part of the park.
right field bleachers = miller BEER pen. yeah, give obnoxious sober ppl beer and they just get worse.
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right field bleachers = miller BEER pen. yeah, give obnoxious sober ppl beer and they just get worse.
However, I'm pretty sure you can drink beer anywhere in the park (sans family sections)...so thats no excuse for one section to be rougher.
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calling Miller park Wrigley North is exactly what I am talking about. You don't see Packer's fans calling Soldier Field, "Lambeau South".
I realize it is all in good fun to you, but when you say things like that, you can't expect everyone to take it as a joke.
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Cameron also threw Lee out at home plate last night but did look pretty bad at the plate.
Cameron didn't throw him out, Quade was dumb for sending him.
calling Miller park Wrigley North is exactly what I am talking about. You don't see Packer's fans calling Soldier Field, "Lambeau South".
I realize it is all in good fun to you, but when you say things like that, you can't expect everyone to take it as a joke.
I think it's a bit different when in the past years Miller Park has been dominated by Cubs fans. In the last two years, 30-40% of a rival fan base still says a lot.
Neither football teams even come close to those percentages.
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Cameron didn't throw him out, Quade was dumb for sending him.
I think it's a bit different when in the past years Miller Park has been dominated by Cubs fans. In the last two years, 30-40% of a rival fan base still says a lot.
Neither football teams even come close to those percentages.
it says that Cubs fans are willing to pay more than Brewers fans to watch a game in a stadium which isn't much farther than its home stadium for a lot of its fans... Milwaukee doesn't have the tradition or history to sell out most of its games, and a lot of fans are willing to have their whole season ('9 packs, etc) ticket package paid for to miss one game. So can you really blame them? If the Central is as close as everyone thinks it is going to be I would expect the last series to be mostly Brewers fans.
Also, thanks for the extra revenue your fans have dropped into the Brewer's coffers.
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it says that Cubs fans are willing to pay more than Brewers fans to watch a game in a stadium which isn't much farther than its home stadium for a lot of its fans... Milwaukee doesn't have the tradition or history to sell out most of its games, and a lot of fans are willing to have their whole season ('9 packs, etc) ticket package paid for to miss one game. So can you really blame them? If the Central is as close as everyone thinks it is going to be I would expect the last series to be mostly Brewers fans.
Also, thanks for the extra revenue your fans have dropped into the Brewer's coffers.
While I agree with you about calling it Wrigley South, it is kind of embarassing to see how man Cubs fans are in Miller Park when they have a 1 game lead in the division on us. If someone is a true Brewers fan they will either attend the game themselves or sell them to BREWERS fans. It's like Marquette fans selling their MU vs. UW tickets to UW fans just because the offered more money...a true fan won't do that deal.
But I completely agree...we were ACTUALLY having a legitimate between Brewers and Cubs fans (doesn't happen too often) about a very well played (minus 1 play) ball game and that post wasn't exactly needed. Of course it came from 94. Oh well, I'll disregard it and hope this solid conversation continues.
Good game last night, hopefully another one in store tonight.
GO BREWERS! (Sorry if I'm being hostile with that :P)
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However, I'm pretty sure you can drink beer anywhere in the park (sans family sections)...so thats no excuse for one section to be rougher.
yes, but there is a reason it's in the bleachers and called the beer pen. Cheaper tickets and mostly occupied by people in their 20's-30's or older ppl that still want to relive their youth and get sloppy at baseball games. someone that is going to say 'Cubs suck' and such when not having anything to drink is going to rip you a helluva lot harder once they've had a few. especially if you're sporting cubs clothing. You know that as well as I do. If you don't want to hear it as much, you'll have to avoid the bleachers all together.
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While I agree with you about calling it Wrigley South, it is kind of embarassing to see how man Cubs fans are in Miller Park when they have a 1 game lead in the division on us. If someone is a true Brewers fan they will either attend the game themselves or sell them to BREWERS fans. It's like Marquette fans selling their MU vs. UW tickets to UW fans just because the offered more money...a true fan won't do that deal.
But I completely agree...we were ACTUALLY having a legitimate between Brewers and Cubs fans (doesn't happen too often) about a very well played (minus 1 play) ball game and that post wasn't exactly needed. Of course it came from 94. Oh well, I'll disregard it and hope this solid conversation continues.
Good game last night, hopefully another one in store tonight.
GO BREWERS! (Sorry if I'm being hostile with that :P)
well, I was just making an example really. Most of the games aren't sold out and at the beginning of the year Cubs fans will buy up the tickets online and come watch the game... so there really isn't much we can do unless we cram the website the day the tickets go on sale and buy up every cubs game.
I agree a true fan shouldn't sell his tickets, and I would never do it, but it happens.
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yes, but there is a reason it's in the bleachers and called the beer pen. Cheaper tickets and mostly occupied by people in their 20's-30's or older ppl that still want to relive their youth and get sloppy at baseball games. someone that is going to say 'Cubs suck' and such when not having anything to drink is going to rip you a helluva lot harder once they've had a few. especially if you're sporting cubs clothing. You know that as well as I do. If you don't want to hear it as much, you'll have to avoid the bleachers all together.
to put it simply, they dont call them Bleacher Bourgeoisie... they are Bleacher Bums.
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Hart would have scored on Hall's broken bat single to center, and Cedeno would have been the second out of the inning, in which the Brewers recorded the next (and potentially final) out.
and i'm sure that every pitch would have been thrown and swung exactly the same way had there been a man on third.
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While I agree with you about calling it Wrigley North, it is kind of embarassing to see how man Cubs fans are in Miller Park when they have a 1 game lead in the division on us. If someone is a true Brewers fan they will either attend the game themselves or sell them to BREWERS fans. It's like Marquette fans selling their MU vs. UW tickets to UW fans just because the offered more money...a true fan won't do that deal.
But I completely agree...we were ACTUALLY having a legitimate between Brewers and Cubs fans (doesn't happen too often) about a very well played (minus 1 play) ball game and that post wasn't exactly needed. Of course it came from 94. Oh well, I'll disregard it and hope this solid conversation continues.
Good game last night, hopefully another one in store tonight.
GO BREWERS! (Sorry if I'm being hostile with that :P)
Thanks for explicitly disregarding my comment. ;D You may want to read ESPN's recap....apparently I'm not the only one calling MP "Wrigley North." So, did you get kicked out last night? I'm looking forward to sitting in my buddy's Brewers season seats that he gave me for tomorrow night.
Thanks for continuing to take the high road....you may want to read some of recent posts there are some fun, legitimate fun facts in there for you.....keep having fun! ;)
Go Cubs!
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calling Miller park Wrigley North is exactly what I am talking about. You don't see Packer's fans calling Soldier Field, "Lambeau South".
I realize it is all in good fun to you, but when you say things like that, you can't expect everyone to take it as a joke.
Are bears/packer games at Soldier Field 40% packer fans? If they were it would be an accurate nick name. If brewer fans don't want Miller park to turn into wrigley north then they will have to sit on the net and buy up tickets the moment they go on sale like cubs fans do.
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Are bears/packer games at Soldier Field 40% packer fans? If they were it would be an accurate nick name. If brewer fans don't want Miller park to turn into wrigley north then they will have to sit on the net and buy up tickets the moment they go on sale like cubs fans do.
didnt we just go over this?
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watching brewers replay and i now know why brian anderson and the other fat guy are so bad. After soriano hit a HR, they talk about him cadillacing it around the bases...being slow out of the box. I'm not sure how these idiots got their job but did anyone see ryan braun hit a HR in STL. He didn't run till it landed!
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watching brewers replay and i now know why brian anderson and the other fat guy are so bad. After soriano hit a HR, they talk about him cadillacing it around the bases...being slow out of the box. I'm not sure how these idiots got their job but did anyone see ryan braun hit a HR in STL. He didn't run till it landed!
perhaps you missed the first at bat where he jogged it to first and the ball went off the wall. He looked pretty stupid jogging to first base, and then all out sprinting to second and almost getting thrown out.
typically, you only walk on a no doubter.
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correct, but they were commenting on the second at bat. If you are going to say something like that, make sure your team gets out of the box promptly after hitting it. I realize soriano looked dumb.
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correct, but they were commenting on the second at bat. If you are going to say something like that, make sure your team gets out of the box promptly after hitting it. I realize soriano looked dumb.
Wasn't the comment something along the lines of, 'After his last time trotting to first, you'd think he'd run this one out'?
Either way, I will agree with your assessment that Schroeder and Anderson are retarded.
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Either way, I will agree with your assessment that Schroeder and Anderson are retarded.
The worst in the business.
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perhaps you missed the first at bat where he jogged it to first and the ball went off the wall. He looked pretty stupid jogging to first base, and then all out sprinting to second and almost getting thrown out.
typically, you only walk on a no doubter.
How about the kid who caught the home run? Caught it with one hand and held on to his pizza with the other. That's a real web gem!
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Thanks for explicitly disregarding my comment. ;D You may want to read ESPN's recap....apparently I'm not the only one calling MP "Wrigley North." So, did you get kicked out last night? I'm looking forward to sitting in my buddy's Brewers season seats that he gave me for tomorrow night.
Thanks for continuing to take the high road....you may want to read some of recent posts there are some fun, legitimate fun facts in there for you.....keep having fun! ;)
Go Cubs!
Thanks, man, and you're more than welcome :). Have fun tonight! It should be a good one!
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The worst in the business.
They're not great but I don't think they are the worst. Try watching MLB extra innings and you'll hear some real bad ones. Almost all tv announcers are so big of homers its not even funny, and both announcing teams in Chicago are no exception.
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How about the kid who caught the home run? Caught it with one hand and held on to his pizza with the other. That's a real web gem!
We replayed that catch three times on the DVR last night when it happened. He had the Cubs fan shielding him from the ball, and his pizza in one hand. Not to mention that the kid looked like he was about 9 and had the ball the whole way. Great grab.
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that is one of the worst things about them..."boy, sure would be nice if _______ could knock one outta here now." at least 5 times a game it seems like. how about stringing together some hits instead of relying on the long ball so much. gee willickers.
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that is one of the worst things about them..."boy, sure would be nice if _______ could knock one outta here now." at least 5 times a game it seems like. how about stringing together some hits instead of relying on the long ball so much. gee willickers.
Only 2 games out of the division lead and first in the wild card...why change what works? While I do agree that sometimes we need to play small ball (move the runner over to 3rd with a bunt if we have a leadoff double or other times), I'll take the 2nd best record in the NL any day, and having a chance to win our division.
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They're not great but I don't think they are the worst. Try watching MLB extra innings and you'll hear some real bad ones. Almost all tv announcers are so big of homers its not even funny, and both announcing teams in Chicago are no exception.
I do watch Extra Innings, quite regularly, mostly to hear other announcers.
Best: Scully, Giants, Cubs, Padres.
Worst: Brewers, Reds, Braves.
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I do watch Extra Innings, quite regularly, mostly to hear other announcers.
Best: Scully, Giants, Cubs, Padres.
Worst: Brewers, Reds, Braves.
Honest question, do you think including the Cubs in your best might have something to do with the fact that they're the commentators for the Cubs? If they were White Sox commentators would you still be saying they are the best? I'm just curious...I personally think they are pretty boring and HUGE homers, but will admit that they at least know a thing or two about baseball, something the Brewers commentators don't know.
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I think Len and Bob are very good at what they do. I don't find them to be that big of homers, they get very critical of the team at times and often Bob has been very flat out direct about it. Len and Bob know when the shut up, and that's probably their strong point out of any other announcing team.
I don't think I'm being a homer calling them one of the best. The thought may have been created after hearing seven years of Chip Caray non-stop talking. It used to be laborious to watch the Cubs game. It is no longer a marathon to keep the sound on.
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I have to agree with PTM here. I don't really think Len and Bob are homers at all. Sure, they want the team to win, but Bob has been critical of the team, Soriano especially. It's clear that Bob still has the manager's mentality.
And please don't even bring up White Sox announcers. I have friends who are White Sox fans and can't stand them. Just the inflection points in Hawk's voice annoy the hell out of me (I don't think he knows which syllables of words are stressed and which aren't), never mind his giant homerism and flashbacks to when he was a player and GM. Easily one of the worst GMs ever, but I'm convinced he thinks he was great.
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I love Len and Bob. They know what they are talking about and stay pretty objective as far as a team's announcers go. Still miss Steve Stone though.
And as for the radio, I won't claim Pat and Ron are great, but they are fun as hell to listen to.
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The worst in the business.
I wouldn't say they are the worst in the business. They were actually pretty unbiased on out/safe and check swing calls for both teams last night.
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I'm a Sox fan, and I think Len and Bob are great at what they do.
Most don't like him (obviously non Sox fans don't), but I love Hawk. He doesn't call a bad game or a great game, he openly roots for the White Sox, and you know exactly what you're going to get every time you listen in. He's funny to listen to, never boring, and I don't take him too seriously. If you take that approach, he's not too bad on the ears.
DJ stinks, but Stone will be in the tv booth next year with Harrelson.
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I'm a Sox fan, and I think Len and Bob are great at what they do.
Most don't like him (obviously non Sox fans don't), but I love Hawk. He doesn't call a bad game or a great game, he openly roots for the White Sox, and you know exactly what you're going to get every time you listen in. He's funny to listen to, never boring, and I don't take him too seriously. If you take that approach, he's not too bad on the ears.
DJ stinks, but Stone will be in the tv booth next year with Harrelson.
I don't mind Hawk, just as much as I don't mind Santo. They bring a passion to the broadcast, some people like it, some people don't.
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I don't mind Hawk, just as much as I don't mind Santo. They bring a passion to the broadcast, some people like it, some people don't.
Santo? He might be the worst broadcaster of any sport. He can't even speak English half the time. Santo makes George Thompson seem like Vin Scully.
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Santo? He might be the worst broadcaster of any sport. He can't even speak English half the time. Santo makes George Thompson seem like Vin Scully.
But he's our worst broadcaster. He lives and dies with every at bat, every out and every pitch. He's an unabashed homer for the Cubs and that's why we love him. You can just hear the agony he's in during a bad game and the elation he feels during a good and exciting game, just like the rest of us Cubs fans.
And his reactions are hilarious. I was listening a game earlier this month with my buddy who's a Brewers fan. It was the first time he heard Santo and he was absolutely in tears laughing.
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But he's our worst broadcaster. He lives and dies with every at bat, every out and every pitch. He's an unabashed homer for the Cubs and that's why we love him. You can just hear the agony he's in during a bad game and the elation he feels during a good and exciting game, just like the rest of us Cubs fans.
And his reactions are hilarious. I was listening a game earlier this month with my buddy who's a Brewers fan. It was the first time he heard Santo and he was absolutely in tears laughing.
He sounds like a chimp in heat with the yapping and yelping he does. He brings nothing to broadcast. I mean why not put Ronnie Woo Woo on air? Same effect.
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No one is as bad as Ronnie Woo Woo. No one.
OT: Chili, I've only been off campus since graduation, but looking at your avatar made me really want Real Chili right now. God, I miss that place.
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Most don't like him (obviously non Sox fans don't), but I love Hawk. He doesn't call a bad game or a great game, he openly roots for the White Sox, and you know exactly what you're going to get every time you listen in. He's funny to listen to, never boring, and I don't take him too seriously. If you take that approach, he's not too bad on the ears.
Who doesn't like to "sit down and strap it down"?
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Men against boys.
The Brewers are pathetic.
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The worst in the business.
Ron Santo. 720AM. Sounds drunk and/or slow.
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But he's our worst broadcaster. He lives and dies with every at bat, every out and every pitch. He's an unabashed homer for the Cubs and that's why we love him. .
Can you not lump all cubs fans in with that 'we'. plenty of 'us' don't.
SO those are the two aces that are taking the brewers to the world series huh?
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Men against boys.
The Brewers are pathetic.
You're 2 innings from tying the season series, in which 6 of 8 games have been played in Chicago. Congrats.
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Ron Santo. 720AM. Sounds drunk and/or slow.
Exactly how Harry Caray was entertaining. But I think Harry was actually drinking budweiser on occasion.
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Can you not lump all cubs fans in with that 'we'. plenty of 'us' don't.
SO those are the two aces that are taking the brewers to the world series huh?
Want a cookie?
Maybe that's why the Cubs fans thought Brewers fans were hostile last night...because they party like they've won the World Series (for the first time in 100 years!) after 2 REGULAR SEASON wins.
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You're 2 innings from tying the season series, in which 6 of 8 games have been played in Chicago. Congrats.
A-FRICKIN-MEN.
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Want a cookie?
Maybe that's why the Cubs fans thought Brewers fans were hostile last night...because they party like they've won the World Series (for the first time in 100 years!) after 2 REGULAR SEASON wins.
Right....imagine (I know it's hard) if the shoe was on the other foot....if the Brewers took the first two games of the series...I'm sure there would be no celebration out of the playoff-starved Brewer faithful.
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Right....imagine (I know it's hard) if the shoe was on the other foot....if the Brewers took the first two games of the series...I'm sure there would be no celebration out of the playoff-starved Brewer faithful.
No, there would be, but we're at home and the Cubs are on the road, and if the Brewers had beaten both Zambrano and Harden nobody would be saying "Those guys are supposed to lead you to the World Series?" Then again, I suppose Zambrano and Harden have never lost a game in their careers, so I suppose those 2 losses make Sheets and Sabathia terrible pitchers not worthy of carrying a team into the playoffs. We're supposed to hold a double standard for the winning team? So whoever wins, their fans are allowed to be a-holes, but whoever loses, it's being too hostile if they say something? Alright, makes sense to me now.
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You're 2 innings from tying the season series, in which 6 of 8 games have been played in Chicago. Congrats.
Not sure where you're going with this, but I am a lifelong Brewer fan. They absolutely stink right now, especially at the plate. They go up with no approach at all other than swing for the fences. Their defense is pathetic. They look like the team that pissed away a decent lead in August last year. They're gonna give back almost all of a 7-0 roadtrip.
Forgive me for not being more positive.
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Another nice win at Wrigley North tonight. Hopefully the offense has officially re-awakened. Nice to see Fukudome and Ramirez step-up tonight...and it wouldn't have been complete without Z getting an RBI single off Benji. Z now has two more hits than the entire Brewer staff combined and is now 4-1 against Sheets head-to-head...nice. He was absolutely dominant tonight....the vaunted Brewer offense only got two guys past first base all night.
Taking the first two games on the road with CC and Sheets starting is a great start. Sheets is now 1-3 in his last 6 starts...ouch.
The Cubs played through their worst offensive stretch of the season while the Brewers had to win 9 of 10 to get back to even....of course following that with losing 4 of 5 at home takes some of that away.
I'll take a split over the last two games of the series to leave Milwaukee with a 3 game lead but if we win tomorrow....we'll all get greedy. On the other side, we lose both and we leave in the same position as we arrived...still in first place.
Note to Cubs hitters: hit the ball to left field.
No, there would be, but we're at home and the Cubs are on the road, and if the Brewers had beaten both Zambrano and Harden nobody would be saying "Those guys are supposed to lead you to the World Series?" Then again, I suppose Zambrano and Harden have never lost a game in their careers, so I suppose those 2 losses make Sheets and Sabathia terrible pitchers not worthy of carrying a team into the playoffs. We're supposed to hold a double standard for the winning team? So whoever wins, their fans are allowed to be a-holes, but whoever loses, it's being too hostile if they say something? Alright, makes sense to me now.
Man, you really are not being realistic here at all. So, you're telling me (as an example) that if CC beat Harden followed by Sheets beating Zambrano Brewer fans (especially you) wouldn't be trash talking? Give me a frickin break....as it was pointed out to me...this is a pissing match.
I haven't read anyone calling CC or Sheets terrible pitchers....if anything most Cubs fans here predicted losing either or both of the games against them in this series.
You certainly think people are hostile a lot....
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Another nice win at Wrigley North tonight. Hopefully the offense has officially re-awakened. Nice to see Fukudome and Ramirez step-up tonight...and it wouldn't have been complete without Z getting an RBI single off Benji. Z now has two more hits than the entire Brewer staff combined and is now 4-1 against Sheets head-to-head...nice. He was absolutely dominant tonight....the vaunted Brewer offense only got two guys past first base all night.
Taking the first two games on the road with CC and Sheets starting is a great start. Sheets is now 1-3 in his last 6 starts...ouch.
The Cubs played through their worst offensive stretch of the season while the Brewers had to win 9 of 10 to get back to even....of course following that with losing 4 of 5 at home takes some of that away.
I'll take a split over the last two games of the series to leave Milwaukee with a 3 game lead but if we win tomorrow....we'll all get greedy. On the other side, we lose both and we leave in the same position as we arrived...still in first place.
Note to Cubs hitters: hit the ball to left field.
Man, you really are not being realistic here at all. So, you're telling me (as an example) that if CC beat Harden followed by Sheets beating Zambrano Brewer fans (especially you) wouldn't be trash talking? Give me a frickin break....as it was pointed out to me...this is a pissing match.
I haven't read anyone calling CC or Sheets terrible pitchers....if anything most Cubs fans here predicted losing either or both of the games against them in this series.
You certainly think people are hostile a lot....
I almost forgot about the Ignore buttons we now have. That thing is going to work wonders for me. Now I can have a legitimate baseball conversation with some Cubs fans. Lates brah, your ignorance made me laugh quite a few times, it's been fun.
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Want a cookie?
Maybe that's why the Cubs fans thought Brewers fans were hostile last night...because they party like they've won the World Series (for the first time in 100 years!) after 2 REGULAR SEASON wins.
No, I'm not eating carbs right now.
Please find one cubs fan who is celebrating like we won the world series. You sound ridiculously defensive.
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Want a cookie?
Maybe that's why the Cubs fans thought Brewers fans were hostile last night...because they party like they've won the World Series (for the first time in 100 years!) after 2 REGULAR SEASON wins.
No, there would be, but we're at home and the Cubs are on the road, and if the Brewers had beaten both Zambrano and Harden nobody would be saying "Those guys are supposed to lead you to the World Series?" Then again, I suppose Zambrano and Harden have never lost a game in their careers, so I suppose those 2 losses make Sheets and Sabathia terrible pitchers not worthy of carrying a team into the playoffs. We're supposed to hold a double standard for the winning team? So whoever wins, their fans are allowed to be a-holes, but whoever loses, it's being too hostile if they say something? Alright, makes sense to me now.
I think I've figured you out. I thought you had actually decided to chill out and tone down the anger/hostility/whatever you want to call it in your posts. Silly me. You've been all about taking the high road when your team's riding high, and incapable of taking any crap when they're not.
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Not sure where you're going with this, but I am a lifelong Brewer fan. They absolutely stink right now, especially at the plate. They go up with no approach at all other than swing for the fences. Their defense is pathetic. They look like the team that pissed away a decent lead in August last year. They're gonna give back almost all of a 7-0 roadtrip.
Forgive me for not being more positive.
Fair enough. My mistake. Thought you were a Cubs fan talking trash. But let's (and I can't believe I'm saying this) take the Cubs fans' perspective for a moment, shall we?
We're going through a rough stretch (just as the Cubbies are/were before they came to Milwaukee). I doubt many Cubs fans lost faith in their team as they lost 7 of 10. On the flip side, I wasn't quite ready to hand the Brewers the pennant after a 7-game road win streak (although it was pretty damned enjoyable). So we got kicked around, at home, behind our ace, tonight. Big frickin' deal. It happens. I guess my point is this: one home loss does not make a team (especially the team with the 2nd-best record in the NL) pathetic.
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Finally back home in chicago after hanging with Talltitan at Miller park the past 2 days.
Feel like yesterdays crowd, at least from where I was, took a chill pill and there was a lot less hostility.
As for the game, there is one big difference I notice between the two offenses. One relies heavily on the home-run, and the other will take their walks and string together hits. If the home-runs aren't leaving the park for the brewers AS OF LATE, they aren't winning.
Last observation of the night, Fukudome did not deserve to be given a triple. Braun does not get errors because he doesn't even get close to the ball. His statement was that he had to make a play cause it was 2-0. But if he just keeps it in front, it is 3-0 and guys on first and second. A double play and K would have gotten Ben out.
Was a fun 2 nights being at the game.
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No, I'm not eating carbs right now.
Please find one cubs fan who is celebrating like we won the world series. You sound ridiculously defensive.
Were you at the game on Monday? I can't speak for after Tuesday because I wasn't there, but there were plenty of fans acting like they'd just won the World Series. We weren't moving in the parking lot so we decided to park it back up and bring the bean bags back out, and numerous Cubs fans had some pretty nasty things to say, and the other ones were just singing "Go Cubs Go." I personally don't celebrate like that after a regular season win.
I really just don't understand how people can say "Men against boys. The Brewers are pathetic" when the season series is tied between the teams and there's only 3 games separating them in the standings. Is 3 games really that big of a difference, especially to start August? Yes, the 2nd game was a bad loss for the Brewers and Z was lights out. The first game was back and forth, great game, unlucky breaks for the Brewers. When the Brewers aren't playing well they can lose ugly, just like every team.
The Brewers have lost 4 of 5 since taking 7 in a row on the road. That makes their record 8-4 since the All-Star Break. Yes, given that they did win those first 7 on the road I would hope the record would be better at home, but looking at the big picture, 8 out of 12 wins since the break really isn't that bad. Neither is 3 games out of first with a chance to cut into the lead before August even starts (although I think it'll still be 3 games when August does start). There is a lot of baseball left to play, and I believe 6 of the last 9 Cubs games are in Miller Park. The Brewers will turn it around and keep up with the Cubs and give themselves a chance to take the division that last week, and if they don't take the division they'll most likely win the Wild Card. Brewers fans as a whole seem to think this division is now over because the Cubs took the 1st 2 games. Some Cubs fans seem to agree, others see the big picture better. It's a 162 game season, and while this is a big series, it's only 4 games in that season. The point is I'm not about to give up hope on the Brewers just because they lost the 1st 2 games to the Cubs with their aces on the mound. Yes, it sucks, but no, the season's not over, or even close to it. The real big series will come in those last 6 games is my bet.
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Not sure where you're going with this, but I am a lifelong Brewer fan. They absolutely stink right now, especially at the plate. They go up with no approach at all other than swing for the fences. Their defense is pathetic. They look like the team that pissed away a decent lead in August last year. They're gonna give back almost all of a 7-0 roadtrip.
Forgive me for not being more positive.
no need for apologies. I think you are lumping the whole team together when that simply isn't the case though. Cameron, Weeks, Hall, and possibly a few others are definitely going up there w/o an approach. I'd say Braun and Kendall though still go up knowing what they want to do and executing a fair amount of the time. Cameron, Weeks and Hall probably have 30 hits to right field all year. When pitchers know that you aren't going to hurt them going the other way, they can throw outside half of the plate w/o much worry that you'll make solid contact cuz those three continue to try and pull every stinking ball sans about a week each where they would actually hit the ball to all fields. That coupled w/ their strikeout totals is so difficult to handle. There is one bright spot right now in Braun but his mental error in left yesterday didn't help much. This team is playing very stupidly since coming home, that's for sure though.
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I also am getting my first chance to post following the first two games with RobMUFan.
Notes:
- While the first game was about 60%-70% Brewers fans, the second game was 40%-50% Brewer fans. A noticeable drop in between the two games.
- Miller Park staff did a great job controling drunk people showing an unbias between Brewer and Cub fans. I'll give them props on that.
One last thing I noticed is that a large number of Brewer fans seemed more focused on making fun of the Cubs than the Brewers winning. I didn't see one anti-Brewer shirt on a Cub fan but I saw about 15 different shirts bashing the Cubs. Some of them were so offensive that Miller Park staff had to ask them to turn them inside out or be kicked out.
I understand outside Wrigley they have shirts showing Barrett punching AJ or anti-Cardinal shirts but they don't put stuff on them that children shouldn't see. I agree the Horry Cow shirt is offensive but they stopped selling those awhile back.
One shirt said, "if you want to see losers play go to Clark and Addison". That's fine. I have no beef with that. But the people wearing shirts with a Chirizo giving it to a Cub from behind with a shirt that says in uncensored form "F*ck the Cubs" needs to stop.
I agree a Cubs/Brewer game isnt the place to bring kids but you know they have a right to be there too, so just keep it clean please. I understand its only a small sample but whoever is making these shirts needs to stop and whoever is wearing them needs to not wear them by a mom and her 3 little kids.
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Were you at the game on Monday? I can't speak for after Tuesday because I wasn't there, but there were plenty of fans acting like they'd just won the World Series. We weren't moving in the parking lot so we decided to park it back up and bring the bean bags back out, and numerous Cubs fans had some pretty nasty things to say, and the other ones were just singing "Go Cubs Go." I personally don't celebrate like that after a regular season win.
You may not celebrate like that, but I bet you would be in the minority. Especially with this being a rivalry game.
I walked out of the game (only my cubs hat on) and was jumped in front of, and given 2 middle fingers in the air. Everybody finds some way to celebrate and or burn off steam...the problem is a few bad apples ruins it for everybody.
Did you have a problem with the go cubs go singing, or just the offensive comments?
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Were you at the game on Monday? I can't speak for after Tuesday because I wasn't there, but there were plenty of fans acting like they'd just won the World Series. We weren't moving in the parking lot so we decided to park it back up and bring the bean bags back out, and numerous Cubs fans had some pretty nasty things to say, and the other ones were just singing "Go Cubs Go." I personally don't celebrate like that after a regular season win.
omg, they were singing "Go Cubs Go?" DOn't they know that we only sing that song after we win the world series? What the hell were they thinking.... oh wait, that is the song that they play after EVERY WIN.
You are clearly just pissed off and grasping at straws. As for the rest of your post, yes clearly the brewers aren't a bunch of boys playing against men. it's still a close race. Relax and let other fans have fun. If we let you take a game i'm sure there will be much rejoicing by brewers and then you can come here and bash your own fans for celibraiting (yeah right).
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GO CUBS GO, GO CUBS GO, Hey Chicago whadda you say? Chicago's gonna win today!
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No, there would be, but we're at home and the Cubs are on the road,
We were on the road? That's not what it looked like on TV.
You wouldn't celibrait on the road because there wouldn't be 40% brewer fans in chicago, if there were, yes you would.
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What's up with the Brewers OF? Not good at defense.
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What's up with the Brewers OF? Not good at defense.
Cameron has been absolutely terrible this year. Braun made that mental error that changed the complexion of that whole inning. 2 scored and one ends up on third. If he plays it off the bounce instead of trying to make a miraculous catch, 2 on but it's first and second w/ only one run in.
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Cameron has been absolutely terrible this year. Braun made that mental error that changed the complexion of that whole inning. 2 scored and one ends up on third. If he plays it off the bounce instead of trying to make a miraculous catch, 2 on but it's first and second w/ only one run in.
Totally agree. In his interview he said he needed to make a play...and i disagree with his statement. But it wasn't only that play, Ramirez hit another one that made him turn about 3 ways before he knew the ball was hit as hard as it was and it looked bad.
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I walked out of the game (only my cubs hat on) and was jumped in front of, and given 2 middle fingers in the air. Everybody finds some way to celebrate and or burn off steam...the problem is a few bad apples ruins it for everybody.
Maybe you should have been wearing more than just a cap! ;)
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Maybe you should have been wearing more than just a cap! ;)
Superstitions wise it was the right choice!
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I walked out of the game (only my cubs hat on) and was jumped in front of, and given 2 middle fingers in the air.
I have video of this I will post later!
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I have video of this I will post later!
Can't wait.
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Ugh! Brewers are looking dumpy and kind of out of it.
Instead of coming up with some obscure fact or complaint I will choose to take the low road and make fun of Tall Titan, who can't even spell the word official.
As proof, see the name of this topic.
Stupid Cubs fan. ;D ;D ;D
PS: Go Brewers
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Ugh! Brewers are looking dumpy and kind of out of out.
Instead of coming up with some obscure fact or complaint I will choose to take the low road and make fun of Tall Titan, who can't even spell the word official.
As proof, see the name of this topic.
Stupid Cubs fan. ;D ;D ;D
PS: Go Brewers
WOW! this has been going on for a long time and no one caught it. Impressive!
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I also am getting my first chance to post following the first two games with RobMUFan.
Notes:
- While the first game was about 60%-70% Brewers fans, the second game was 40%-50% Brewer fans. A noticeable drop in between the two games.
- Miller Park staff did a great job controling drunk people showing an unbias between Brewer and Cub fans. I'll give them props on that.
One last thing I noticed is that a large number of Brewer fans seemed more focused on making fun of the Cubs than the Brewers winning. I didn't see one anti-Brewer shirt on a Cub fan but I saw about 15 different shirts bashing the Cubs. Some of them were so offensive that Miller Park staff had to ask them to turn them inside out or be kicked out.
I understand outside Wrigley they have shirts showing Barrett punching AJ or anti-Cardinal shirts but they don't put stuff on them that children shouldn't see. I agree the Horry Cow shirt is offensive but they stopped selling those awhile back.
One shirt said, "if you want to see losers play go to Clark and Addison". That's fine. I have no beef with that. But the people wearing shirts with a Chirizo giving it to a Cub from behind with a shirt that says in uncensored form "F*ck the Cubs" needs to stop.
I agree a Cubs/Brewer game isnt the place to bring kids but you know they have a right to be there too, so just keep it clean please. I understand its only a small sample but whoever is making these shirts needs to stop and whoever is wearing them needs to not wear them by a mom and her 3 little kids.
I was there last night, and I agree with about 90% of what you said... except that cubs fans didn't do their part of poor sportsmanship.
In the section I was in there was a rather heated argument between a Brewers fan (who was obviously taking the ass beating too personally) who let a couple of Cubs fans get under his skin, and a group of Cubs fans who were taking advantage of a 22 year old kid who had too many and was upset that his team was losing (I know, waaa waa.) I had to agree with most of the things that the Cubs fans were saying and everything eventually cooled down, until one Cub fan walked down the seats 4 or 5 rows stood up next to the kid and started getting in his personal space... Then security had to come, and eventually the cubs fans took it down a notch and convinced the aggressive guy to go back to his seat.
other than that, the most annoying thing I saw all night was a skinny little 22 year old brewers fan who was bombed and was more interested in screaming obscenities and berating cubs fans than she was in the baseball game. luckily she left, because I was about 5 minutes from calling the security on her.
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sober she prob couldn't even name 5 brewers not named sheets, braun, or fielder
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she had on a weeks shirt, and was yelling for hart louder than any other player.
my fiance told the obnoxious girl that she could see her cooter, and to 'put that crap away'
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I'm kinda disappointed to hear about Brewer fans actin' like this. Pretty bush league, but I'm not totally surprised. I love going to road games in any sport, it's so high risk/high reward.
I felt the sting at the Brewer/Red Sox game out here in Boston and the MU v. UCONN game in Storrs, and the MU @ Providence two years ago. But feeling the high of your team winning on the road is awesome. (MU @ UCONN two years, WOW!)
I think some rules should be established when seeing your team on the road to avoid any unnecassary drama.
First two that come to mind are no cursing and not blocking someone elses view continually. Any other ideas?
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my fiance told the obnoxious girl that she could see her cooter, and to 'put that crap away'
Out on the east coast we call that "flashing your phone number"
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I walked out of the game (only my cubs hat on) and was jumped in front of, and given 2 middle fingers in the air. Everybody finds some way to celebrate and or burn off steam...the problem is a few bad apples ruins it for everybody.
That happens to me, with a Brewers hat on, regardless of outcome. Except instead of middle fingers theres usually a drunk idiot shouting in my face or just least annoyingly getting in my way trying to get a high five.
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That happens to me, with a Brewers hat on, regardless of outcome. Except instead of middle fingers theres usually a drunk idiot shouting in my face or just least annoyingly getting in my way trying to get a high five.
Cause Im sure if the brewers win, the fans won't be giving high-fives to each other
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Out on the east coast we call that "flashing your phone number"
Laughed out loud at that one...."flashing your phone number"....good stuff. You never know what you're going to learn on this site.
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I wish ESPN would hire Juan Nieves or Chris Bosio to call a game.
Get off your knees Sutcliffe.
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I'm not able to watch the ESPN broadcast due to Comcast having the game. But I would like to hear what you are referring to.
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This guy thought it felt like wrigley at miller park...
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=777779
Also made reference to brewers season ticket holders selling tickets off. Similar to MU/UW game tickets.
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The only things we agreed on were the national anthem and the notion that beer is good food. Even "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" was competitive when it got to the part, "Root, root, root for the (scream either Brewers or Cubbies here)." By the way, that song was written a century ago, in 1908 - the last time the Cubs won the World Series. That's funny until you remember the Brewers have never won one.
I just want to point out, not sure if its ever been refuted on this board...but i know i have had this debate before. Those of you that think the milwaukee brewers have won a world series are wrong. The milwaukee/atlanta braves have won. The seattle pilots/milwaukee brewers have not!
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Wow, this has been an ugly series for the Crew. I'm hoping against all odds that my boys can pull one out tomorrow against Harden...
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Ha! I did spell official wrong. I never noticed that. Granted I suck at spelling.
Last night me and my friend were walking back down Bluemound as a car full of people yelled "CUBS SUCK" and then proceded to throw a bottle our direction.
That's what gets Brewer fans beat up.
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I have to kill time as I wait to head out for work so I am going to respond to t-shirts I saw at the games. This is all in fun.
Brewers baseball mitt logo with extended middle finger: Are we at WWE Raw? We actually may have been considering all the fakes fights we saw and the beer guy yelling, "Iceman's here for ya! Oooooooooooo yeah brotha!"
Wrigley Field marquis displaying the message "World's Largest Gay Bar": Did you think of the irony of this t-shirt as you and your 5 male friends all wore it around with no female in sight?
Happy 100 Years: Thank you for celebrating our World Series win. We don't even celebrate it. (Wearing the Cubs 1908 hat doesn't count. That's just a really cool hat.)
Calvin Peeing on a Cubs Hat: Most orginal thing I've ever seen. Where did you get that idea from? You must have been pissed when Jimmy Johnson (Chevy) won at the Brickyard.
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I have to kill time as I wait to head out for work so I am going to respond to t-shirts I saw at the games. This is all in fun.
Brewers baseball mitt logo with extended middle finger: Are we at WWE Raw? We actually may have been considering all the fakes fights we saw and the beer guy yelling, "Iceman's here for ya! Oooooooooooo yeah brotha!"
Wrigley Field marquis displaying the message "World's Largest Gay Bar": Did you think of the irony of this t-shirt as you and your 5 male friends all wore it around with no female in sight?
Happy 100 Years: Thank you for celebrating our World Series win. We don't even celebrate it. (Wearing the Cubs 1908 hat doesn't count. That's just a really cool hat.)
Calvin Peeing on a Cubs Hat: Most orginal thing I've ever seen. Where did you get that idea from? You must have been pissed when Jimmy Johnson (Chevy) won at the Brickyard.
Yeah, those are all pretty dumb. But the dumbest one I think I've seen is the one they sell outside Wrigley when the Cubs plays the Cards that say "Albert takes it in/up the Pujols." Seriously, thats the best someone could come up with? I don't think Albert minds too much, seeing as he is the best player in the game.
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Does Miller Park allow fans to bring brooms?
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Did anyone else notice that on the other board, no topics have been allowed since the Brewers tied it up 4-4 on Monday?
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Does Miller Park allow fans to bring brooms?
as long as there is not a shaft on it, they allow them I am pretty sure.
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Did anyone else notice that on the other board, no topics have been allowed since the Brewers tied it up 4-4 on Monday?
Other board?
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Other board?
Marquette Hoops
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Cubs showed in this series why we are the best team in the Central. We frickin owned the Brewers!!! and Gagne is frickin bush league for throwin at Edmonds. he's just mad he frickin sucks now. SWEEP SWEEP SWEEP. my uncle said he went to the first game and after the cubs won some brewers a hole fan got in his face and talked a lot of crap. u know what, f u! easy sweep in wrigley north. who is the pressure on now, braun? go cubs go!
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Easy buddy. Not necessary at all. And the wrong forum.
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why would you have this in Hangin' at the Al? there is a different topic created for Brewers Cubs Discussion.
Plus the baseball season isnt over yet, so take it easy.
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Cubs showed in this series why we are the best team in the Central. We frickin owned the Brewers!!!
What position do you play for the Cubs?
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After the Cubbies took the first game, the Crew never seemed into any of the other 3. Disappointing series for the Brewers, and pretty damned impressive for the Cubs--they just swept the 2nd-best home team in the NL in their own stadium, and did so pretty comfortably. Tip of the cap from this Brewers fan.
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The AM PM "too much good stuff" player of the series I am going to have to give to the cubs starting pitching staff...and the hot dog winning 3 of 4!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/Ampm.JPG/800px-Ampm.JPG)
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Good series for the Cubs, my hats go off to them. Still a lot of season left though, but the Brewers looked like piss the last 3 games of this series. The cards are rising as well.
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Thoughts on Prince's ejection? To me it looked like he was doing it intentionally trying to fire up his team more than anything.
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The AM PM "too much good stuff" player of the series I am going to have to give to the cubs starting pitching staff...and the hot dog winning 3 of 4!
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/Ampm.JPG/800px-Ampm.JPG)
The hot dog is always my horse. At least he had a good series.
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Thoughts on Prince's ejection? To me it looked like he was doing it intentionally trying to fire up his team more than anything.
I have to agree, but usually its the managers job to do stuff like that. And the shots of Ned from WGN made it look like he was just dumbfounded.
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right on the money there rob w/ a capital DUMB!! God he is a terrible manager and the team as a whole just sucks since getting out of St. Louis. We swept them, now you swept us, hopefully next time you play them they sweep you guys and it evens all out.
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Quote of the day from MU alum Len Kasper:
"Signing off from Wrigley North where the Cubs complete the 4 game sweep of the Milwaukee Brewers..."
I would have been ecstatic with a split but taking all 4 was enormous....going home where we play 19 of the next 28 games is huge.
I'm sure Fielder may have been trying to light a spark under his team or maybe it was just pure frustration but he looked like a fool.
Gagne throwing behind Edmonds who already had 2 HRs in the game is complete bush league BS after Bush already hit 2 batters in the game....the best part was how the Cubs responded....by tacking on some additional runs....let the bats do the talking.
Note to Yost....Braun attempting to bunt in two different ABs may not be the best idea....granted, he may not have called for it but, wow.
Nice that Harden didn't have another "wasted start"....first W as a Cub....long, long overdue. The only bad news is that his 1.04 ERA will most likely go up after yielding one run in 7 innings.
Let's keep the mojo and take tomorrow's game against Pittsburgh!
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I have to agree, but usually its the managers job to do stuff like that. And the shots of Ned from WGN made it look like he was just dumbfounded.
The key word there is usually...but when you have a manager like Ned Yost, who not only LOOKS dumbfounded, but IS dumbfounded, the players have to do it for themselves. While Yost sits at his press conferences saying "(enter opposing pitcher's name here) pitched a good day today, and (enter Brewer pitcher's name here) pitched well, he just made a couple mistakes, and they're professional hitters up there and took advantage of those mistakes. We're fine." HE EVEN SAYS RICKIE WEEKS IS FINE CONTINUALLY! So Braun has taken it upon himself to say what needs to/SHOULD be said and speak the truth when the team is not playing well, saying along the lines of it's up to the team to perform up to their ability which they haven't been doing and they need to start holding themselves responsible.
I'm expecting more of the same stuff following this series (from the quotes in the papers, etc.), but I have been up in Steven's Point watching my brother win State baseball with Marquette High today, so while the Brewers sure were a disappointment this week, I'll take that disappointing week to see my brother win State.
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What position do you play for the Cubs?
Why do people get hung up on the we stuff when they reference their favorite team, never understood this. They invest money, time, energy, passion....damn right they should say we.
Otherwise, should everytime the media says "we invaded Iraq" or "we went to the moon" or whatever, is that wrong because none of us are part of the space program?
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Quote of the day from MU alum Len Kasper:
"Signing off from Wrigley North where the Cubs complete the 4 game sweep of the Milwaukee Brewers..."
I would have been ecstatic with a split but taking all 4 was enormous....going home where we play 19 of the next 28 games is huge.
I'm sure Fielder may have been trying to light a spark under his team or maybe it was just pure frustration but he looked like a fool.
Gagne throwing behind Edmonds who already had 2 HRs in the game is complete bush league BS after Bush already hit 2 batters in the game....the best part was how the Cubs responded....by tacking on some additional runs....let the bats do the talking.
Note to Yost....Braun attempting to bunt in two different ABs may not be the best idea....granted, he may not have called for it but, wow.
Nice that Harden didn't have another "wasted start"....first W as a Cub....long, long overdue. The only bad news is that his 1.04 ERA will most likely go up after yielding one run in 7 innings.
Let's keep the mojo and take tomorrow's game against Pittsburgh!
Fielder looked like no more a fool than Zambrano did after he popped out his bunt and broke his bat over his knee.
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Gah why can't the Cubs lay an egg against the Brewers instead of the Pirates? Just ONE? I guess that's why baseball, and 162 game seasons, are so frustrating as fans at times...
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The cubs usually do crappy against pitchers they haven't seen before...they took the BB today but just couldn't put a good bat on the ball.
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The cubs usually do crappy against pitchers they haven't seen before...
That's one thing they have in common with the Brewers.
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Hats off to the Cubs, took it to the Brewers, although someone just brought it up
"Big Z"... don't be a douche, don't break your bat over your knee... your a pitcher... the last thing that needs to happen is to injure yourself being an idiot.
Bo Jackson breaks his bat over his knee, and that should have retired with him.
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It's a maple bat...if they move back to the ash bat, then I will start to worry! ;)
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It's a maple bat...if they move back to the ash bat, then I will start to worry! ;)
still have to admit.. he looks like an idiot doing it.. him breaking his bat after bunting for an out is as douchebag-like as a man wearing a pink polo with the collar popped... when I watched it live I couldn't stop laughing... call The Incredible Hulk film-crew back, we have a new Hulk... "Z Smash".
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A much bigger douche move than Z breaking his bat over his knee was Prince and Bill Hall celebrating his solo homerun in the bottom of the ninth in game two to make it a 7-2 game. Milwaukee sports radio even ripped into Prince and Hall on this one.
And as for breaking the bat on his knee, I think we can all agree with Lou who said, "I wish I could have done that as a player. I had to settle for the water cooler." Come on who out there wouldn't break a bat over their knee is they could?
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Mayor, are you a brewers fan? Cause if you are, I would really like to know what you think of Prince tomahawking the bat on the ground after a pop up? Cause that just looks like an angry fat man who needs steak!
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Mayor, are you a brewers fan? Cause if you are, I would really like to know what you think of Prince tomahawking the bat on the ground after a pop up? Cause that just looks like an angry fat man who needs steak!
yeah... Prince does need a steak.. if he was still eating steak, the man would be hitting more home runs.. guarantee... As a Brewer fan, I dislike Prince, not for the vegetarian thing, but the simple fact he turned down a 5 year 60 million dollar contract... after we gave Braun the 7 year 40something million. Prince is not worth 60 million, and not better than Braun, and is easier to come by. He doesn't realize that in 3-4 years he is going to be worthless because hes a freak that will just keep getting bigger and be worthless...
so yes, Prince has his douche bag ways, I'll admit it. But pretty much everything Zambrano does is silly.. the stupid thing with Fontenot, the punching him down and bring him up (marqptm, I think that was your signature for a while)... really... absolutely dumb, to the getting cramps from too much red bull... really Z? Are you 12 and drink Red Bull from sun up to sun down? To pretty much everything he does...
Out of all the Cubbies, I think Z bugs me the most.. good player, just acts too childish constantly. And yes, there are some Cubs I don't mind. Derrick Lee, is a very good player, and acts like a professional, he should maybe give Zambrano some lessons ;D
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so yes, Prince has his douche bag ways, I'll admit it. But pretty much everything Zambrano does is silly.. the stupid thing with Fontenot, the punching him down and bring him up (marqptm, I think that was your signature for a while)... really... absolutely dumb
Really? That bugs you? I think you are pulling straws here. It's a pregame ritual with Fontenot. It's the same as all the crazy handshakes that all teammates have with each other. I think it's pretty funny and original too.
Like I've said in previous threads, I can understand any non-Cubs fan hating Z. I mean, I probably would too if I wasn't a Cubs fan. He's just one of those players that you either love or you hate. And while he may be crazy and childish at times, it's clear that he really loves playing the game and gives his all each day, which is something that can't always be said for a lot of players.
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It's not the dumbest pre-game ritual in sports, for that look no further than Danny Green at UNC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqRmNkygo7k
but it's pretty close. Fake pounding a teammate on the head and then pulling him up is original? Sorry nope. I am also not a fan of the stupid handshakes, but those I feel are better then this ritual of fake beating your teammate on the head.
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Maybe Benji should come up with a new pre-game ritual....1-4 in his last 7 starts.....ouch. :)
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Maybe Benji should come up with a new pre-game ritual....1-4 in his last 7 starts.....ouch. :)
Good for the Brewers, he'll play himself into an affordable contract.
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It's not the dumbest pre-game ritual in sports, for that look no further than Danny Green at UNC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqRmNkygo7k
but it's pretty close. Fake pounding a teammate on the head and then pulling him up is original? Sorry nope. I am also not a fan of the stupid handshakes, but those I feel are better then this ritual of fake beating your teammate on the head.
At least Green is getting himself pumped up, getting the blood flowing and the adrenaline going. After dancing like that I can guarantee you that he's loose and ready to play some basketball. I don't really see how fake punching a teammate into the ground can do the same (unless he's imagining, and convincing himself, that he really is beating somebody up, which wouldn't surprise me...he did start taking his belt off in the middle of a bench-clearing brawl a couple of years ago...then it'd work). It's for laughs and a good time, which is fine, but I'd say Green's pre-game ritual is at least effective in getting him ready to play.
yeah... Prince does need a steak.. if he was still eating steak, the man would be hitting more home runs.. guarantee... As a Brewer fan, I dislike Prince, not for the vegetarian thing, but the simple fact he turned down a 5 year 60 million dollar contract... after we gave Braun the 7 year 40something million. Prince is not worth 60 million, and not better than Braun, and is easier to come by. He doesn't realize that in 3-4 years he is going to be worthless because hes a freak that will just keep getting bigger and be worthless...
I disagree here. MAYBE he'd be hitting more home runs, but you don't know that. He's still going to hit about 35 home runs this year, which is not bad at all...you can't consistently hit 50 home runs a year. And I guarantee you that he's not the one calling the shots on his contract. His agent is Scott Boras. Every Boras player is the same...don't sign contract extensions because they want to wait until they can cash in the most (when they become free agents). I would bet if it was up to Prince he'd have a contract extension signed by now to play for the Brewers for longer, but it's really not. I bet in 3-4 years, instead of being worthless, he'll be winning a few World Series with the Boston Red Sox for around $15 million per year. He's the definition of Boston Red Sox first basemen (Mo Vaughn, David Ortiz...Prince Fielder).
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It's not the dumbest pre-game ritual in sports, for that look no further than Danny Green at UNC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqRmNkygo7k
but it's pretty close. Fake pounding a teammate on the head and then pulling him up is original? Sorry nope. I am also not a fan of the stupid handshakes, but those I feel are better then this ritual of fake beating your teammate on the head.
Sounds like a petty rival fan searching for things to be mad about. Chemistry in baseball is important. Teams that have fun and seem to like each other tend to out play teams that are constantly focusing on being 'professional'. Thanks, but i'll take the sports with the fun still in it.
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And as for breaking the bat on his knee, I think we can all agree with Lou who said, "I wish I could have done that as a player. I had to settle for the water cooler." Come on who out there wouldn't break a bat over their knee is they could?
It would be more impressive it it was an aluminum one!! :D
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It would be more impressive it it was an aluminum one!! :D
This is what Zambrano would do with an aluminum bat.
Fantastico!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDZPN0mjaAA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDZPN0mjaAA)
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I disagree here. MAYBE he'd be hitting more home runs, but you don't know that. He's still going to hit about 35 home runs this year, which is not bad at all...you can't consistently hit 50 home runs a year. And I guarantee you that he's not the one calling the shots on his contract. His agent is Scott Boras. Every Boras player is the same...don't sign contract extensions because they want to wait until they can cash in the most (when they become free agents). I would bet if it was up to Prince he'd have a contract extension signed by now to play for the Brewers for longer, but it's really not. I bet in 3-4 years, instead of being worthless, he'll be winning a few World Series with the Boston Red Sox for around $15 million per year. He's the definition of Boston Red Sox first basemen (Mo Vaughn, David Ortiz...Prince Fielder).
It is Fielder's decision. He signed Scott Boras, did he not. When you come into the league, you are not assigned agents. Lets face it, it wasn't Boras who said no to the deal, it was Fielder. So instead of being paid 12 million a year for 5 years (and I really believe in 3-5 years he isn't going to be that good) we have him on arbitration for the next couple. Have fun being paid still around a million a year Prince.
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It is Fielder's decision. He signed Scott Boras, did he not. When you come into the league, you are not assigned agents. Lets face it, it wasn't Boras who said no to the deal, it was Fielder. So instead of being paid 12 million a year for 5 years (and I really believe in 3-5 years he isn't going to be that good) we have him on arbitration for the next couple. Have fun being paid still around a million a year Prince.
Fielder is going to get a lot more in arbitration than $1 million a year. Howard got $10 million last year, so my guess would Fielder/Boras will submit something close to that, the Brewers will submit somewhere around $5 million, and they'll meet somewhere in the middle.
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It is Fielder's decision. He signed Scott Boras, did he not. When you come into the league, you are not assigned agents. Lets face it, it wasn't Boras who said no to the deal, it was Fielder. So instead of being paid 12 million a year for 5 years (and I really believe in 3-5 years he isn't going to be that good) we have him on arbitration for the next couple. Have fun being paid still around a million a year Prince.
Agreed with jmayer. Yes, he signed with Boras, that was his choice, but he signed an agent who is known to be a very good agent that many big name players sign with. How many times do you hear of a player not doing what his agent tells him to in terms of contracts and such, not just in baseball but in any sports? If a player does, they just fire the agent. Why do team management talk to the AGENT about contracts and stuff? There's a reason a player has an agent...to handle their financial situations in order to get the most money and keep them steady financially while they just go and play ball. It's a business.
What gives you reason to think he'll be bad in 3-5 years? He'll be at most 30 years old at that time. Just because he's bigger you think he'll decline faster? Although I really don't think it makes a difference, I'd think that the smaller, less powerful player who relies on his athleticism would decline more quickly than a bigger, powerful player because you lose that athleticism earlier, but you can still keep the power. My guess is he'll be a pretty effective power hitter up until his mid 30s and be with the Red Sox in a few years.
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Guys, there's a rational discussion of the Brewers thread. Keep it in there.
Prince is fat.
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Guys, there's a rational discussion of the Brewers thread. Keep it in there.
Prince is fat.
Zambrano drinks too much caffein.
Fukudome's Japanese.
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Zambrano drinks too much caffein.
Fukudome's Japanese.
Ryan Braun is jewish...along with gabe kapler, jason marquis, shawn green, and a few others!
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Ryan Braun is jewish...along with gabe kapler, jason marquis, shawn green, and a few others!
HEBREW HAMMER! (AKA Yahweh)
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Ryan Braun is jewish...along with gabe kapler, jason marquis, shawn green, and a few others!
Kevin Youkilis, Robmufan, ...
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Hey!, it's in the FAMLY, do i mess with your family? DO I go ASSSssKING, your family questions when you have problems? ....
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I think it's a poor analogy Ned gave.
Brewer fans pay money to see the team. They don't pay money to see their family. They have a right to know what's going on.
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Kevin Youkilis, Robmufan, ...
It's only like 1/8th!!!
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It's only like 1/8th!!!
don't be ashamed of your inner yid. embrace it!!
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I think it's a poor analogy Ned gave.
Brewer fans pay money to see the team. They don't pay money to see their family. They have a right to know what's going on.
We do know what's going on. There was a disagreement, a scuffle, and a resolution. The details are inconsequential. Come on, Titan, this isn't the first time something like this has happened in baseball.
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I still think, the context of this being the 2nd 'conflict' prince was involved in, over just a few days is significant. When he busted his bat and threw a fit i thought it was a good thing, and that he was probably trying to get his team fired up. But now, it looks like he's becoming a cry baby/jerk.
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According to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Fielder was upset because Parra apparently was headed back to the clubhouse during the Brewers' half of the seventh. Fielder told Parra he should stay in the dugout and watch Milwaukee bat. The scuffle ensued.
taken from ESPN.com's post game write up.
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Come on, Titan, this isn't the first time something like this has happened in baseball.
Yeah but the other times the manager generally lets the media know what happened.
Ned better bench Fielder for a game or two or he has lost all control of this team like he did last year.
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I want to know what happened....Ned, nor any of the brewers are my neighbor!
*Knock Knock*!
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What's with this kid having himself a brew at Wrigley Field?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x63pte_beer-kid-at-wrigley_shortfilms
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Is giving 8 year old kids Old Style standard practice for yuppie north siders?
Also PTM, admit it, that's you.
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Is giving 8 year old kids Old Style standard practice for yuppie north siders?
Also PTM, admit it, that's you.
I saw this a couple weeks ago, hilarious. However, reinko, judging by the lack of advertisement on the cup, it's not Old Style. It would be from one of the speciality beer stands selling PBR, Schlitz, Special Ex, or Sharps.
Also, I will admit one day, at that age, my son can have a sip of my beer. Especially if I have seats that close to the field.
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Is giving 8 year old kids Old Style standard practice for yuppie north siders?
How soon we forget this:
(http://f3.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_mlb_experts__8/ept_sports_mlb_experts-775049541-1215779708.jpg?ym9dOr_CBNChuPXc)
I'd rather my 8 year old son have a sip of beer than my 3 year old daughter be doused in it by 24 screaming men.
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The most common and overused argument stupid people make when attempting to creatively make fun of the Cubs or their fans usually involves the words "1908" or "Bartman." And while its true that the Cubs have pretty much blown for the last 100 years, the Cubs (at least in the last 30-40 years or so) have pretty regularly had at least one or two players per generation that provided really solid entertainment.
This is emphasized in the ESPN ratings grab known as "Baseball Tonight's All-Time Franchise Players." Its roughly the entertainment equivalent of "Who's Now" or "Titletown, U.S.A."; however, it provides an interesting comparison for those fans (especially Brewers fans) who want to stupidly criticize the Cubs for their 100 years of futility.
Let's take a look at the Cubs' list:
Cap Anson
Ernie Banks
Mordecai Brown
Mark Grace
Gabby Hartnett
Ferguson Jenkins
Ryne Sandberg
Ron Santo
Sammy Sosa
Billy Williams
Out of a list of 10 players, that's 7 Hall of Famers, 2 likely Hall of Famers (Santo and Sosa), and one guy in the Honorary Wrigleyville Ass-Getting Hall of Fame* (Grace). Not too bad...not to mention guys like Andre Dawson and Hack Wilson didn't even make the list.
NOW...
for fun...
let's compare that with the list of the team whose fans talked a whole lot of crap leading up to this week, the Milwaukee Brewers:
Mike Caldwell
Cecil Cooper
Jim Gantner
Teddy Higuera
Geoff Jenkins
Paul Molitor
Ben Ogilve
Dan Plesac
Gorman Thomas
Robin Yount
Okay, now that's one...two hall of famers, about six middle of the road offensive players, and Dan Plesac. Dan Mother F'n Plesac. A guy who, while he was a closer for a little over half his Brewers' career, was a middle reliever for the majority of his baseball career.
Let me write that again: In the entire Brewers' history, there weren't ten players better than a middle reliever.
Of the other players on the list, I don't think anything needs to be said about Teddy Higuera or Geoff Jenkins. My only question regarding these guys is how the hell did Jeromy Burnitz not make the list? And how sad is that last question?
So for all the crap Cubs fans have had to put up with over the last 100 years of bad teams, at least we can take a little solace in the number of truly great players that have come through town. And the team whose ass the Cubs kicked this week has Geoff Jenkins.
Ahh...screw that. We've sucked. For a long time. But other teams have sucked worse.
Borrowed from Five Outs to Go.
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Obviously the Cubs are going to have a much larger collection of great players since they have been around 93 years longer. But in their short 39 year existence, the Brewers have gotten 44 seasons from guys who ended being in the Hall of Fame.
During that same time period the Cubs got 41 season from players who were hall of famers. Of course, the Cubs also had Dawson for 6 years (who should get in eventually), Sosa for a ton of years (would be first ballot if not for suspicion of roids), and Santo for 6 of those years (who will prolly be elected by the veterans committe in the next few years).
So, the Cubs did have more high level talent over those years, but the gap isn't as big as PTM makes it seem.
Also just to note, Pleasac closed for the Brewers 5 of his 7 years there and was a 3 time all-star (the same all star appearances as Mark Grace, his time's version of Sean Casey (and obviously I'm not saying Pleasac was anywhere near as good as Grace, just pointing out a fact). Cecil Cooper was a 5 time all star and a pretty feared hitter back in his day. Ogilve and Thomas had some huge years but weren't at their peaks very long. The rest of the guys (Jenkins, Ganter, Higuera) were all pretty decent players at points in their careers but definitely aren't elite. Rollie Fingers also had an MVP season for the Brewers and Aaron finished off his career as part of the Crew.
Of course, over that same time period the Cards have gotten 42 seasons from hall of famers, plus however long Pujols plays and the 4 years from McGwire, but won 2 world series and appeared in 3 others. So, I guess talent might be great (on paper the Cubs had more than the Cards) but it don't mean much if you can't win ball games.
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Obviously the Cubs are going to have a much larger collection of great players since they have been around 93 years longer.
Really you should have a third of the great players we have. You don't.
The greatest Brewer of all time are sure Hall of Famer is Shouse!
Shouse! Shouse! Let it aloud! These are the things I can do without! Come on! I'm talking to you, come on!
Shouse is the only Brewer I like if you can't tell.
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Really you should have a third of the great players we have. You don't.
Oh, so you're trying to compare times in early 1900s when there were 8 teams and everybody had multiple hall of famers on their roster to the current period of expansion? Good argument. If you could read, you would see I said the Cubs have had more talent than the Brewers, but the disparity is not as great as you and ptm would have you believe. I guess I thought you would actually read my response and put together an arguement based on statistics and facts but obviously I was wrong.
Its pretty easy to reply with some snippy comment, anyone can do it. I guess asking you to have an good banter back and forth is too much.
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Ok we will do this. We will only compare the two clubs after 1969. How does that sound?
Mike Caldwell < Greg Maddux, Fergie Jenkins
Cecil Cooper < Ernie Banks
Jim Gantner < Ron Santo
Teddy Higuera < Bruce Sutter
Geoff Jenkins < Alfonso Soriano
Paul Molitor < Billy Williams
Ben Ogilve (I don't even know who this guy is?)
Dan Plesac < Dan Plesac (We had him too), Dennis Eckersly
Gorman Thomas < Sammy Sosa
Robin Yount < Ryne Sandberg
Rollie Fingers < Goose Gossage
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Disrespecting Robin Yount will get you shot.
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Ben Ogilvie played and started in a World Series. More than I can say for almost all of the Cubs players that you posted.
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What position is he? I'll take Palmero, Keith Moreland, Mark Grace, Joe Carter, hell Joe Girardi over him.
Josh Fogg also started in a World Series if that means anything.
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Ben Ogilvie....Just letting you know who he is. I have no allegiance to him whatsoever. Also a 3 time All Star.
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB SH SF IBB
16 Seasons 1754 5913 784 1615 277 33 235 901 87 560 852 .273 .336 .450 118 2663 21 69 105
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Ok we will do this. We will only compare the two clubs after 1969. How does that sound?
Mike Caldwell < Greg Maddux, Fergie Jenkins
Cecil Cooper < Ernie Banks
Jim Gantner < Ron Santo
Teddy Higuera < Bruce Sutter
Geoff Jenkins < Alfonso Soriano
Paul Molitor < Billy Williams
Ben Ogilve (I don't even know who this guy is?)
Dan Plesac < Dan Plesac (We had him too), Dennis Eckersly
Gorman Thomas < Sammy Sosa
Robin Yount < Ryne Sandberg
Rollie Fingers < Goose Gossage
If you really believe this you are either an unabashed cubs homer who is not worth having a baseball conversation with or somebody who doesn't know/understand baseball and its history very well.
First of all, you should do better comparisons.
One year of Gossage over 4 years of Rollie including 2 times an as and one year where he was not only the cy young winner but also mvp. The better comparison would be Rollie = Sutter and Pleasac > Goose's one year.
Soriano's 1.5 years vs Jenkins career. Soriano is the better player but he hasn't played very long for the Cubs and thats what the argument is.
Ernie Banks is the best player on this list but his last 3 years aren't better than Cecil's time as a brewer.
Molitor and Williams are completely different types of players. I would say Molitor = Sandberg and Yount = Williams but those could prolly both go either way.
From the pathetic argument you bring up, it seems like you aren't really a baseball fan, just a cubs fan and that's fine.
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Yeah I'll take Grace. All time hits leader of the 90's I believe. Which is remarkable considering Towy Gwynn was around then.
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If you really believe this you are either an unabashed cubs homer who is not worth having a baseball conversation with or somebody who doesn't know/understand baseball and its history very well.
First of all, you should do better comparisons.
One year of Gossage over 4 years of Rollie including 2 times an as and one year where he was not only the cy young winner but also mvp. The better comparison would be Rollie = Sutter and Pleasac > Goose's one year.
Soriano's 1.5 years vs Jenkins career. Soriano is the better player but he hasn't played very long for the Cubs and thats what the argument is.
Ernie Banks is the best player on this list but his last 3 years aren't better than Cecil's time as a brewer.
Molitor and Williams are completely different types of players. I would say Molitor = Sandberg and Yount = Williams but those could prolly both go either way.
From the pathetic argument you bring up, it seems like you aren't really a baseball fan, just a cubs fan and that's fine.
Erroneous! Erroneous! Erroneous on all accounts! No way is Robin Yount equal to Billy Williams! Are you kidding me?
EDIT: And are you really going to try to argue Jenkins over Soriano?
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Erroneous! Erroneous! Erroneous on all accounts! No way is Robin Yount equal to Billy Williams! Are you kidding me?
EDIT: And are you really going to try to argue Jenkins over Soriano?
Williams hit a lot more homers but Yount played at a much more premium position. Williams made more all star teams but Yount won 2 mvps while Williams never did. All their other stats are pretty comparable. If a gun was put to my head, I would prolly say Williams by a hair but its close.
No, I was just pointing out you had some pretty stupid comparisons in there. Obviously Soriano is better for his career, but definitely isn't just as a cub.
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If you really believe this you are either an unabashed cubs homer who is not worth having a baseball conversation with
95% of Cubs (and Chicago sports...Bears and Bulls) fans...
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You realize you just agreed with every comparison I made.
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Ok we will do this. We will only compare the two clubs after 1969. How does that sound?
Mike Caldwell < Greg Maddux, Fergie Jenkins
Cecil Cooper < Ernie Banks
Jim Gantner < Ron Santo
Teddy Higuera < Bruce Sutter
Geoff Jenkins < Alfonso Soriano
Paul Molitor < Billy Williams
Ben Ogilve (I don't even know who this guy is?)
Dan Plesac < Dan Plesac (We had him too), Dennis Eckersly
Gorman Thomas < Sammy Sosa
Robin Yount < Ryne Sandberg
Rollie Fingers < Goose Gossage
can you really count Greg Maddux as a Cub... look at his Cubs statistics, come on, that would be like if the Brewers would count CC Sabathia as a Brewer when it comes to him retiring. The same goes for Dennis Eckersly and most likely Goose Gossage.
Yup, the Cubs have bigger names then the Brewers, thats fine, thats what money buys, but we both still have the same amount of World Series rings since 1970. 0.
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95% of Cubs (and Chicago sports...Bears and Bulls) fans...
ANd your ability to get mad at people and yell at them has convinced me that you are extremely knowlegeable.
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You realize you just agreed with every comparison I made.
You acted like comparing Williams to Yount was like comparing Babe Ruth to Melky Cabrera. If you would ever, ever explain one of you points, maybe I could understand the point you were trying to get across.
I still don't know what your point is about Soriano and Jenkins. If you are arguing that Soriano's cubs career is better than Jenkins' brewers career, you are an idiot. If you are saying that Soriano's cubs career is obviously not better than Jenkins' brewers career, we agree and you admit it was a dumb comparison to make.
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95% of Cubs (and Chicago sports...Bears and Bulls) fans...
Its 95% of pretty much all fans, regardless of team or city.
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What position is he? I'll take Palmero, Keith Moreland, Mark Grace, Joe Carter, hell Joe Girardi over him.
Joe Carter played 23 games for the cubs. Palmeiro played just over 250, a season and a half. Goose 46 games with a 4-4 record and 13 saves.
How do these players equate to being some of the all time great cubs since 1969?
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Fine Mark Grace and Keith Moreland
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Keith Moreland, now that is funny.
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Fine Mark Grace and Keith Moreland
The same Keith Moreland that had less hits, doubles, triples, home runs, rbi, sb, walks, batting average, on-base percentage, slugging, ops+, and total bases than Ben Ogilve over both their careers and for 162 game averages?
You would still take him? Hilarious!!! Do some research once in awhile before you open your trap.
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uhh I would take Robin Yount over Williams anyday of the week. Yount was a special player who unfortunately got stuck on a round of TERRIBLE teams.
No mention is made of how much harder it is to bat when you are the only good player on the team (until Molitor showed up). Yes, there were the very early 80's (a minority) and then there was the rest of the tenure.
It is SIGNIFICANTLY easier to be a better batter on a better team.
Yount > Sandberg and Williams
are you kidding me?
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Funny, I believe andre dawson found a way not only to be a good hitter, but an MVP for a team that didn't even make the playoffs! Just cause your team sucks...doesn't mean you have to!
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Funny, I believe andre dawson found a way not only to be a good hitter, but an MVP for a team that didn't even make the playoffs! Just cause your team sucks...doesn't mean you have to!
Lots of guys have. I don't think Yount was any exception. He was a great ballplayer, as were Williams, Sandberg, and Molitor. Williams had more power than the other three but that quartet is hard to separate.
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The same Keith Moreland that had less hits, doubles, triples, home runs, rbi, sb, walks, batting average, on-base percentage, slugging, ops+, and total bases than Ben Ogilve over both their careers and for 162 game averages?
You would still take him? Hilarious!!! Do some research once in awhile before you open your trap.
Fine Mark Grace.
No way is Robin Yount better than Billy Williams. What is with Brewers love of Robin Yount? Is it that he's your best player ever and he would be behind about 5 Cubs since 1969?
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And Andre Dawson by far over Ben Olive or whatever his name is.
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What's with this kid having himself a brew at Wrigley Field?
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x63pte_beer-kid-at-wrigley_shortfilms
My Dad let me sip his beer all the time and I turned out ok... ;)
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Fine Mark Grace.
No way is Robin Yount better than Billy Williams. What is with Brewers love of Robin Yount? Is it that he's your best player ever and he would be behind about 5 Cubs since 1969?
You named 5 players you would rather have based on their days with cubs rather than Ogilve and you were clearly proven wrong on 4 of them, you have no credibility; and it shows how little knowledge you have of the game. I'll admit I'm homer but at least I can be objective and support my arguements. You on the other hand...well, I think you've proven that you can't be objective or support your arguements very well.
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What is with Brewers love of Robin Yount?
Let's see...
-2 MVPs
-one of only 3 players to win an MVP at 2 different positions
-3-time All-Star
-a Gold Glove in '82
-more hits than any player in the 1980s
-only player to collect 4 hits in 2 WS games
-member of the 3,000 hit club
-first ballot Hall-of-Famer
Need me to continue?
If he was a Cub, you'd be calling him one of the best players ever, and probably be considerably more obnoxious about it than we Brewers fans are. Instead, since he was a Brewer, in your estimation he's just pretty good. That sound about right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Yount (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Yount)
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ANd your ability to get mad at people and yell at them has convinced me that you are extremely knowlegeable.
It was a joke. Every team has their ridiculous fans who think their team is God's gift to the sporting world. Chicago just seems to have more.
I just will always remember when the Bulls were looking for a new coach and one of my friends from my floor who is from Chicago told me a new coach that they were going to get every day. It started with Tom Izzo, then went to Avery Johnson, then to Mike D'Antoni, and there was one more, I forget who. He also told me that Gilbert Arenas was going to sign with the Bulls this year and in 2010 Dwyane Wade was going to also sign with them. These were all within a week of each other.
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So your roommate was able to read the newspapers?
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One thing I've noticed going back and forth between Illinois and Wisconsin is that up here in Wisconsin all Brewer fans care about is the Cubs. That's all they focus on.
Back in Illinois no one even thinks about the Brewers. Everyone focuses on the Cardinals while the Brewers aren't even an afterthought.
I would even go so far as to say that the majority of Cubs fans don't consider the Brewers a rival.
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It was a joke. Every team has their ridiculous fans who think their team is God's gift to the sporting world. Chicago just seems to have more.
I just will always remember when the Bulls were looking for a new coach and one of my friends from my floor who is from Chicago told me a new coach that they were going to get every day. It started with Tom Izzo, then went to Avery Johnson, then to Mike D'Antoni, and there was one more, I forget who. He also told me that Gilbert Arenas was going to sign with the Bulls this year and in 2010 Dwyane Wade was going to also sign with them. These were all within a week of each other.
Yes, those have all been prominant internet rumors. Ones i'm sure that you would have been reading had they been about teams you follow.
You want to talk about rediculous homers? I recieved the same email from THREE different packer fans, all of them sending it out to everyone on their contact list. It had Favre's 'stats' at soldier field. I looked at it for a bout 20 seconds and realized that if the email was true farve would have had to avg. 5.5 td's and 600 some yards per game. (admittedly it is closer to being true than any bears fan wants to admit.)
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One thing I've noticed going back and forth between Illinois and Wisconsin is that up here in Wisconsin all Brewer fans care about is the Cubs. That's all they focus on.
Back in Illinois no one even thinks about the Brewers. Everyone focuses on the Cardinals while the Brewers aren't even an afterthought.
I would even go so far as to say that the majority of Cubs fans don't consider the Brewers a rival.
+1
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One thing I've noticed going back and forth between Illinois and Wisconsin is that up here in Wisconsin all Brewer fans care about is the Cubs. That's all they focus on.
Back in Illinois no one even thinks about the Brewers. Everyone focuses on the Cardinals while the Brewers aren't even an afterthought.
I would even go so far as to say that the majority of Cubs fans don't consider the Brewers a rival.
What's your point TT? It's clear a lot of Milwaukee fans have a Napoleon complex when it comes to Chicago, but can you blame us? It's been 25 years since Brewer baseball has been relevant.
Not too mention, the Cubs/Cardinals, have what? 100 years of history? The Brewers have played in NL for like 10 years. Who else would we focus on in our division? The Pirates?
Only a couple more innings and this non-rival team will only be 3.5 games back.
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Only a couple more innings and this non-rival team will only be 3.5 games back.
I realize you can only play who is on the schedule but c'mon you're playing the Nationals.
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Fairly representative of Cubs fans, I think ;D
MONDAY, Aug. 11, 2008, 8:58 a.m.
By Linda Spice
Cubs fans headed to court today
The case of two Illinois men charged with beating a West Allis man who threw a can at their bus following a Milwaukee Brewers/Chicago Cubs game at Miller Park July 29 is scheduled to come to court today for a preliminary hearing.
Adam Miechle, 25, and Jerry Emert, 26, both of Downers Grove, are each scheduled for a preliminary hearing at 1:30 p.m. before Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Richard Sankovitz. Testimony provided at a preliminary hearing is heard by a judge to determine whether enough evidence exists for a defendant to stand trial in a case.
Both men were charged in a complaint with substantial battery, party to a crime, in the beating of Brandon Feezor, 24, of West Allis, who suffered a broken jaw, for which he had surgery.
An earlier complaint noted that Feezor had thrown a Red Bull energy drink can at a bus carrying Cubs fans, three of whom got off the bus and chased him. Two of them - Miechle and Emert - punched him and continued to beat him after he fell to the ground, Feezor told police, according to the complaint.
http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=8/11/2008&id=44597 (http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=8/11/2008&id=44597)
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I realize you can only play who is on the schedule but c'mon you're playing the Nationals.
You play them too. Besides inter-league(which I think they need to tweak a bit), the Cubs and Brewers play the same teams. So you got to play the Nationals earlier, but don't mention that with your giant lead at the beginning of the season, its just that the Cubs are that good.
Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about the sweep a couple weeks ago.
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Don't worry TT, the Cubs are playing the Nats in a 3-game series in a couple weeks at Wrigley.
The Brewers have a much easier schedule than the Cubs do the last 6 weeks of the season. The division will by decided by the six games the Cubs and Brewers play in September. Hopefully, the Cubs can continue to have a cushion (3 game led or more) until then.
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Fairly representative of Cubs fans, I think ;D
http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=8/11/2008&id=44597 (http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=8/11/2008&id=44597)
At first I felt bad for the Brewer fan who got the crap beat out of him. But then the next day as I was walking with my friend along Bluemound a car full of Brewer fans drove by and yelled "Cubs Suck" at us and then threw a glass bottle at us.
So you know what? While three guys is excessive I am happy the guy got the crap beat out of him. You don't throw a damn bottle at a bus much less people. I don't feel any sympathy for him now.
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It was a can. And I don't feel bad for the guy either, but "continued to beat him after he fell"? Yeesh.
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At first I felt bad for the Brewer fan who got the crap beat out of him. But then the next day as I was walking with my friend along Bluemound a car full of Brewer fans drove by and yelled "Cubs Suck" at us and then threw a glass bottle at us.
So you know what? While three guys is excessive I am happy the guy got the crap beat out of him. You don't throw a damn bottle at a bus much less people. I don't feel any sympathy for him now.
I agree, a glass bottle is excessive... a red bull can, really... how much damage is a tin can going to do? Won't even leave a mark on a human much less a bus. It probably didn't even make noise when it hit the bus. And who knows what the people on the bus said to provoke the "attack" from a can. Feel bad for the guy, no need for actual violence. Cubs won the game that night, you know on that bus there was at least one or two ass holes to ruin the whole bunch (1 or 2 is probably lightly, it was probably a bus full of "Wrigley" fans).
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So you know what? While three guys is excessive I am happy the guy got the crap beat out of him. You don't throw a damn bottle at a bus much less people. I don't feel any sympathy for him now.
Sucks you got a bottle thrown at you, totally unnecessary, but to not feel bad for this guy is just ice cold TT.
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Sucks you got a bottle thrown at you, totally unnecessary, but to not feel bad for this guy is just ice cold TT.
+1, you almost got hit with a bottle so you don't feel bad for some random guy who is going to be eating out of a straw for the next few months?
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He threw a can at a bus. He brought it upon himself.
EDIT: If I threw a can or bottle at a person, car, bus, etc. I would fully expect to get the crap beat out of me.
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Spoken like a sox fan.
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I don't feel bad for the guy. Idiot move generally equals pain. I have a real good feeling there is more to the story, there usually is.
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Spoken like a sox fan.
Hahahaha. True!
I mean there's just some stuff you don't do. Would you throw a rock at a pissed off german shepard?
No because you know that the idiot move equals pain as MarqPTM noted.
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Wow chubby fans stick together. Really, throwing a tin can at a bus, and the appropiate response is an ass-kicking by 3 people?
What if it were a bottle? Should they have knifed him?
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What if it were a bottle? Should they have knifed him?
No they should again beat him up.
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No they should again beat him up.
Or, for those of us who are sane, stay on the bus, maybe toss some choice words at they guy, and let it go. Hell, inform one of Milwaukee's finest. They're not hard to find at Miller Park.
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This cubs fan isn't sticking together. So when the guys who did this are getting ass raped in prison will you feel bad for them? I don't think you can since they 'brought it on themselves'. The difference between teaching a guy a lesson and being an out of control cock on his way to getting ass aids is a few kicks after you've made your point. These guys were out of control cocks.
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Oh don't get me wrong. I don't feel bad for the three Cubs fans either.
They had to know the consequences for beating the crap out of a guy. You don't kick the s*it out of a guy and not go to jail.
I don't feel sorry for anyone in the story. The Brewer fans brought it on themselves, and while I don't blame the Cubs fans for attacking, they should have known they'd end up in jail.
They are all idiots.
EDIT: Aside from having the bottle thrown at us, everyone else in the first three games I was at was very well behaved. It's only a select few (from each side) as seen in this story that are the nut cases.
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EDIT: Aside from having the bottle thrown at us, everyone else in the first three games I was at was very well behaved. It's only a select few (from each side) as seen in this story that are the nut cases.
And usually they are the out-spoken fans that really don't have a clue what they are talking about... its sad
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Is it frusterating to go on an 8 game win streak and still be right where you were when it started a game after it is snapped?
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Is it frusterating to go on an 8 game win streak and still be right where you were when it started a game after it is snapped?
Couldn't tell you, but it is a bit frustrating.
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Couldn't tell you, but it is a bit frustrating.
wow a spelling joke, there hasn't been 5000 of those on this board. Way to not have a real come back.
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I have a question,
What is ben sheets record since they have gotten C.C. Sabathia (i think he should still have periods in the name!).
From what I've noticed, the brewers have gained an ace in that trade, but since then have also "lost" one with the record of sheets since the trade. The brewers could be tied with the cubs if sheets didn't drop the ball since the trade.
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I have a question,
What is ben sheets record since they have gotten C.C. Sabathia (i think he should still have periods in the name!).
From what I've noticed, the brewers have gained an ace in that trade, but since then have also "lost" one with the record of sheets since the trade. The brewers could be tied with the cubs if sheets didn't drop the ball since the trade.
Since your too lazy to actually look it up rob, sheets is 1-4 since the CC trade, but has two ND that the brewers won. His ERA has risen slightly from 2.85 to 3.00, so your hypothesis that sheets is the reason the brewers haven't caught up to the cubs is bunk. He only blew up in one game since the trade, (against the cubs) other than that he has pitched pretty good. In this stretch he is still averaging over 6 innings per start, and has only given up 18 earned runs in 7 starts (6 of which came against the cubs.)
He is still 6th in the NL in WHIP and 8th in ERA.
In comparison, since the Harden trade, Zambrano's ERA has risen from 2.98 to 3.22, he has given up 16 ER in 5 starts (and yes, 9 of which came against the cards last week) and he has posted a 2-2 record with 1 ND that the Cubs won.
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there hasn't been 5000 of those on this board.
and yet you still can't spell... ::)
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I have a question,
What is ben sheets record since they have gotten C.C. Sabathia (i think he should still have periods in the name!).
From what I've noticed, the brewers have gained an ace in that trade, but since then have also "lost" one with the record of sheets since the trade. The brewers could be tied with the cubs if sheets didn't drop the ball since the trade.
How many wins does Harden have since that time? And Zambrano? 2? 1 win more than Sheets...scary stuff.
That's 8 wins over that time for Sheets and Sabathia vs. 4 in the same time for Harden and Zambrano.
And for those Cubs fans who were worrying about his 6-8 record in Cleveland, I think he's doing alright in the NL. Can a guy REALLY win the NL Cy Young in HALF a year?
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How many wins does Harden have since that time? And Zambrano? 2? 1 win more than Sheets...scary stuff.
That's 8 wins over that time for Sheets and Sabathia vs. 4 in the same time for Harden and Zambrano.
And for those Cubs fans who were worrying about his 6-8 record in Cleveland, I think he's doing alright in the NL. Can a guy REALLY win the NL Cy Young in HALF a year?
Not when brandon webb is in the NL
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Not when brandon webb is in the NL
Maybe not, but if CC can get 13 wins and have only 2 or so loses and keep an ERA under 1.80 with 6 or so complete games and the Brewers make the playoffs I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.
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Hahahaha. True!
I mean there's just some stuff you don't do. Would you throw a rock at a pissed off german shepard?
No because you know that the idiot move equals pain as MarqPTM noted.
That's about right Cub fan = pissed off German Shepard
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That's about right Cub fan = pissed off German Shepard
Yeah no kidding, so Cubs fans are animals that can't control their emotions? I'm sorry, but throwing a tin can at a bus should not result in getting the living hell beat out of you. He did not "bring it on himself." Yes, it was stupid of him to throw a can at a bus, but all the Cubs fans had to do was remind him who won the game. And if they are going to beat him up, at least only send out one guy...give the guy a chance to defend himself.
Sorry, but throwing a tin can at a bus does not equal getting beat up, whether it's a Brewers fan throwing the can at a Cubs bus or the other way around or in any other situation.
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How many wins does Harden have since that time? And Zambrano? 2? 1 win more than Sheets...scary stuff.
That's 8 wins over that time for Sheets and Sabathia vs. 4 in the same time for Harden and Zambrano.
And for those Cubs fans who were worrying about his 6-8 record in Cleveland, I think he's doing alright in the NL. Can a guy REALLY win the NL Cy Young in HALF a year?
Why so hostile? What does Harden and Zambrano's win total over that time have to do robmufan's question? Sheets is 7-6 since May 1 and 4-5 since CC arrived. Zambrano is 4-3 and Harden is 2-1 (since July 12) since CC became a Brewer. The Cubs don't need to ride Zambrano with Lilly and Dempster having 12 and 13 wins respectively....with Harden joining the staff, the Cubs have as solid of a starting rotation that exists in MLB....as shown by the 4 game sweep in Milwaukee.
Rick Sutcliffe won the Cy Young with the Cubs in '84 after coming over from Cleveland in the middle of the season going 16-1....it's possible for CC.
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Why so hostile?
If you could point out to me what was hostile about my post then I could answer that question for you.
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If the Brewers make the playoffs, it will be largely due to CC's unbelievable pitching and I think that would give him an excellent shot at the cy young. Especially if he goes undefeated.
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If the Brewers make the playoffs, it will be largely due to CC's unbelievable pitching and I think that would give him an excellent shot at the cy young. Especially if he goes undefeated.
pretty ignorant statement on all fronts.
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If the Brewers make the playoffs, it will be largely due to CC's unbelievable pitching and I think that would give him an excellent shot at the cy young. Especially if he goes undefeated.
Absolute pipe dream.
CC has no chance against Webb or Lincecum.
I'd say Lincecum, but W's are valued way too much.
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pretty ignorant statement on all fronts.
Just out of curiosity how many fronts are there?
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Stats from team's web sites/ESPN
Webb 18-4, 2.85 ERA, 3 complete games
Lincecum 13-3, 2.60 ERA, 0 complete games
Sabathia 7-0, 1.55 ERA, 4 complete games (National League only)
I probably should have used the word "good" opposed to "excellent". Webb is dominant and has a ton of wins. He is the favorite right now, but if Sabathia goes undefeated and pushes the Brewers into the playoffs he would have a "good" shot at Cy young. If that occurred I would hardly consider it a "pipe dream". Purely speculation..
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The thing that will kill Lincecum I feel is that he plays for the Giants, and so they will take in account on his team not being competitive, it is silly to do, but they do.
My vote is Webb.
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The thing that will kill Lincecum I feel is that he plays for the Giants, and so they will take in account on his team not being competitive, it is silly to do, but they do.
My vote is Webb.
But isn't it more amazing the kid can get 13 wins with an offense that is so bad as the giants?
My vote is also webb
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It will go to Webb.
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And why did Ned throw CC out there in the 9th inning? You were up 7 and he threw 110 pitches going in. He finished with 130. Ned is going to end his career because he doesn't care about CC's future. Same goes for Sheets. He wants to get what he can now out of the two before they bolt.
And if you don't think this overuse won't effect them next year see Dusty Baker in 2003 & 2004 along with this season. That is what overuse does to a pitching staff.
Completely reckless. Ned should be ashamed.
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Absolute pipe dream.
CC has no chance against Webb or Lincecum.
I'd say Lincecum, but W's are valued way too much.
ESPN.com has CC Sabathia as one of the top 4 candidates for NL MVP this year as of right now...and if he stays undefeated with an ERA in the mid 1's...
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The above conversation was about CY Young, not MVP. BUt I agree, with no stand out offensive players in NL, a 13-1 record with an ERA in the 1's that propels a team into the playoffs that hasn't been there in 26 years is a legit case for MVP.
As for the pitch count. Yeah, it was irresponsible. Hopefully Yost learns from it. I don't have a problem with CC going the distance as long as his pitch count is below 110.
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I agree. 110 is a good number at this point in the season.
I realize the bullpen hasn't been great but in a 7 run game, that's a good time to get those guys some work to get the kinks out.
I think the Brewers will take the Wild Card easily with the injuries to the Cardinals and an overused CC is the last thing they need.
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It would be hard to argue against a 14-0 with a 1.50 ERA and 8 complete games as being a Cy Young (maybe even MVP) candidate. Realistically, those numbers seem impossible to achieve even with the start Sabathia has had, and that it's impossible is the reason why he would be a candidate if it were to happen. His numbers will only get worse (or stay the same with a trip to the DL to thank) if Yost has him throwing 130 pitches and making his first sacrifice bunt since 2001 with a 7 run lead.
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I agree. 110 is a good number at this point in the season.
I realize the bullpen hasn't been great but in a 7 run game, that's a good time to get those guys some work to get the kinks out.
I think the Brewers will take the Wild Card easily with the injuries to the Cardinals and an overused CC is the last thing they need.
100% agreed as a brewers fan.
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Another dominating win by the cubs. Another ten K performance, what i love about it is that we are doing it without an mvp candidate and without a pitcher who will be in the top 3 for the cy young. True team in every sense.
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Another dominating win by the cubs. Another ten K performance, what i love about it is that we are doing it without an mvp candidate and without a pitcher who will be in the top 3 for the cy young. True team in every sense.
Good to hear
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Good to hear
Couldn't agree more. What's wrong with Benji?
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Couldn't agree more. What's wrong with Benji?
Not quite sure. He'll be alright.
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Not quite sure. He'll be alright.
hard to win with zero run support.
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hard to win with zero run support.
Yeah and when you have Kapler hitting 3rd and Counsell hitting 6th (or anywhere in the lineup), and you strand the bases loaded...twice...with Kapler up, plus get thrown out going to 3rd with no outs by 4 steps and get thrown out going home with 1(?) out by 8 steps (what the HELL was Svuem thinking?! Pence was charging in and at almost the infield dirt and got to the ball as Cameron was stepping on 3rd!), you're not going to get that run support.
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Yeah and when you have Kapler hitting 3rd and Counsell hitting 6th (or anywhere in the lineup), and you strand the bases loaded...twice...with Kapler up, plus get thrown out going to 3rd with no outs by 4 steps and get thrown out going home with 1(?) out by 8 steps (what the HELL was Svuem thinking?! Pence was charging in and at almost the infield dirt and got to the ball as Cameron was stepping on 3rd!), you're not going to get that run support.
as far as I am concerned after this year no one's job is safe... Skaalen, Sveum, Yost should probably all go.
I still like Seder, but his job as a first base coach is about as easy as it gets.
I would be happy to see Mike Maddox stay as pitching coach, but there needs to be some house cleaning next year.
Home runs are fun to watch and all, but I would like to see SOME strategy... The Brewers have decent team speed (Cameron, Weeks, Hart, Braun, Kapler, Hall) and don't seem to ever steal any bases because Yost seems content to just let his (and to quote Earl Weaver) 'big cocksuckers hit the ball out of the unnatural carnal knowledgeing park'.
Drives me nuts.
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I still like Seder, but his job as a first base coach is about as easy as it gets.
It's not quite as easy as you think. You have to get reads on the pitcher and their moves and that's not all that easy. It does seem easy though.
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Seder reminds me of the man you would want to go out and get drunk with, and tell stories of the good old days. Love when they have him mic'd for the game, always a treat.
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Don't turn on WGN.
It's a late game hitfest...for the Nationals.
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Could an ESPN Insider possibly copy and paste this article about Ryan Braun on here? I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you.
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3546029&name=olney_buster&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3546029%26name%3dolney_buster
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Ryan Braun: Best against the best
Thursday, August 21, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry
Teammates have said that Ryan Braun's confidence is unique, that he's utterly convinced that he's going to get a hit in his next at-bat, no matter the situation, no matter who is pitching. He had missed a week with a back issue, and came off the bench last Saturday and whacked a pinch-hit double in Los Angeles. The guy clubs the ball to all fields, seemingly in any count.
So on Wednesday, it really didn't come as a surprise when his name surfaced at the end of a conversation about which hitters fare the best against good pitchers. I had sent off a question to Steve Hirdt of the Elias Sports Bureau along these lines: Which hitters have the best production against major league starting pitchers with ERAs at 3.75 or lower as of games played Aug. 19, and relievers with ERAs of 2.75 or lower.
This is what Steve dug out:
Five highest batting averages vs. the group of good pitchers (min: 85 ABs):
PLAYER BA AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB S0
Ryan Braun .371 116 43 11 2 6 19 3 22
Matt Holliday .360 89 32 8 0 3 9 15 16
Ian Kinsler .355 169 60 16 2 6 22 14 17
Joe Mauer .355 93 33 6 1 0 13 11 10
Michael Young .338 154 52 11 1 4 25 9 29
Five lowest (min: 85 ABs), with lowest at the bottom:
PLAYER BA AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB S0
Dan Uggla .154 130 20 5 0 4 8 9 45
Jason Varitek .153 118 18 5 0 2 8 11 42
Mark Reynolds .141 85 12 2 0 2 9 11 35
Chris Young .126 95 12 3 0 0 2 12 35
Jeff Francoeur .114 114 13 2 0 1 6 6 28
Most home runs vs. the group of good pitchers:
PLAYER BA AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB S0
Adam Dunn .221 104 23 2 0 11 18 30 30
Vladimir Guerrero .272 114 31 4 1 10 21 12 18
Kevin Youkilis .284 141 40 4 2 9 26 17 32
Manny Ramirez .271 133 36 7 0 9 28 17 30
Carlos Quentin .280 100 28 4 0 9 17 11 16
A couple of other notes: The midline batting average against those pitchers was .232; and here are the stat lines for another hitter who has a reputation of struggling against good pitchers:
PLAYER BA AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB S0
Ryan Howard .217 115 25 6 0 6 20 8 34
just a rough copy/paste, the writer then goes off on a number of notes and observations regarding other players and things not related to the lead part of the article.
enjoy!
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Thank you very much
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I mean c'mon...do the cubs ever lose? I think the Brewers have lost two series since the all-star break, and we are still 4.5 back.
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I mean c'mon...do the cubs ever lose? I think the Brewers have lost two series since the all-star break, and we are still 4.5 back.
We will be fine.
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I know. Pitching has been solid, timely hitting, great defense as of late. Big two games with Cards. Hopefully Benny can bring the magic tomorrow night
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I mean c'mon...do the cubs ever lose? I think the Brewers have lost two series since the all-star break, and we are still 4.5 back.
I want to say they've won 7 straight series, and if they can keep the lead tonight (up 13-8 in 8th) they will make it 8 straight series.
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Sorry I misspoke. They had 8 series wins in a row. Now it is 9 series wins in a row ad they just finished off Pittsburgh.
EDIT: http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com (http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com) has it at ten series in a row. WGN said nine. Whatever it is it's a lot!
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Another sweep heading into a 4 game home series against philli. We'll have the pitching advantage all 4 games.
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Another sweep heading into a 4 game home series against philli. We'll have the pitching advantage all 4 games.
Cool!
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Cool!
Sounds like a group of fans is starting to get bitter.
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Sounds like a group of fans is starting to get bitter.
I don't think anyone is getting bitter. Unfortunately for the Cards, it looks like the Brewers are pretty good bets to get the wild card. If the standings hold, I would much rather face the Phillies or Mets in a short series than I would the Dbacks where they can throw Webb and Haren at you twice, sandwiched around Johnson, who is one of the best postseason pitchers ever and a notorious Cubs killer. The guys on Chicago ESPN radio were actually debating whether it would be better to get the wc than win the division if the standings stayed this way. Of course, I don't think a team would ever throw games to not win the division just to avoid a potential matchup.
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Another sweep heading into a 4 game home series against philli. We'll have the pitching advantage all 4 games.
Love the way this team is playing right now...score 26 runs the first two games then get a 2-0 win from our 5th starter....as TT said, that's 9 straight series wins!
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I don't think anyone is getting bitter. Unfortunately for the Cards, it looks like the Brewers are pretty good bets to get the wild card. If the standings hold, I would much rather face the Phillies or Mets in a short series than I would the Dbacks where they can throw Webb and Haren at you twice, sandwiched around Johnson, who is one of the best postseason pitchers ever and a notorious Cubs killer. The guys on Chicago ESPN radio were actually debating whether it would be better to get the wc than win the division if the standings stayed this way. Of course, I don't think a team would ever throw games to not win the division just to avoid a potential matchup.
all of that may be true but how does that show that wadesworld isn't bitter?
I don't really care who the opponent is in the first round. They won't be as good as the cubs, we'll be the best team and will win or won't, either way i'd like to go in to it with the division title.
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all of that may be true but how does that show that wadesworld isn't bitter?
I don't really care who the opponent is in the first round. They won't be as good as the cubs, we'll be the best team and will win or won't, either way i'd like to go in to it with the division title.
For the second straight year.
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Bitter? Sure Brewer fans might be a little bitter at the success of the Cubs.
But look at from perspective for just a moment. Brew Crew, 4th best record in MLB, 2nd or maybe 3rd best record since the ASB, have only lost 2 series since July 1st (Dodgers and Cubs) and we are STILL grinding to get a WC.
So call it bitter. I don't care.
Go Crew!
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Bitter? Sure Brewer fans might be a little bitter at the success of the Cubs.
But look at from perspective for just a moment. Brew Crew, 4th best record in MLB, 2nd or maybe 3rd best record since the ASB, have only lost 2 series since July 1st (Dodgers and Cubs) and we are STILL grinding to get a WC.
So call it bitter. I don't care.
Go Crew!
before last night, it was tied for first w/ the Cubs and Rays. W/ the cubs winning last night and today already, the Crew will be second.
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The Cubs and Cardinals have 29 games left.
If the Cubs go 9-20 (well below .500) the Cardinals or Mets have to go 19-10 to take a playoff spot from the Cubs.
The next closest team, Florida would have to go 24-5 to take a playoff spot from the Cubbies.
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Thanks 87 for the stat check, I'm stuck at the laundry mat drinking Miller Lites out of my Nalgene.
I know this is a pissing match thread, but c'mon Chub fans, no love for the small market team 90 miles north?
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I know this is a pissing match thread, but c'mon Chub fans, no love for the small market team 90 miles north?
Too many idiot Brewer fans. Go some other team for the wild card.
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all of that may be true but how does that show that wadesworld isn't bitter?
I don't really care who the opponent is in the first round. They won't be as good as the cubs, we'll be the best team and will win or won't, either way i'd like to go in to it with the division title.
Haha I'm not bitter at all, I'm just saying that I really don't care about that. You guys are playing very well. So are the Brewers. From the Brewers fans I know, we don't really pay attention to who the Cubs are overmatching and the Cubs fans all know that, so posting that stuff is really unnecessary. If you haven't noticed, the sweep of the Brewers moved you 5 games ahead of us, and it is still 5 games. So you can talk all you want about how frustrating it must be for Brewers fans to be playing well but the standings not changing and talk about how dominating you guys are playing, but we're matching your every win since then. Congratulations on playing well. We are too.
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PTM: Wild Card, Brewers or Cards??
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Too many idiot Brewer fans. Go some other team for the wild card.
Pot.
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From the Brewers fans I know, we don't really pay attention to who the Cubs are overmatching and the Cubs fans all know that, so posting that stuff is really unnecessary. \
Good to hear, but?
1) why do you assume that we (cubs fans) are posting for your benefit.
2) can you name one message board post that has ever been made in the history of the interenet that was truly and completely necessary?
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Good to hear, but?
1) why do you assume that we (cubs fans) are posting for your benefit.
2) can you name one message board post that has ever been made in the history of the interenet that was truly and completely necessary?
1) I'm not assuming you're posting for our benefit.
2) Maybe and maybe not, but I can find some that are at least somewhat necessary and have information that some people on the board care about and don't know.
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Too many idiot Brewer fans. Go some other team for the wild card.
Really? A cubs fan saying another team has too many idiot fans, that's funny.
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1) I'm not assuming you're posting for our benefit.
2) Maybe and maybe not, but I can find some that are at least somewhat necessary and have information that some people on the board care about and don't know.
Jesus, it's like talking to a teenager.
You don't know what information 'some people' will 'care about and don't know'.
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Every team has idiot fans. Some of my best friends are Cubs fans, and are guys I could sit down and rationally talk baseball with over a beer without any pissing. I've got respect for that. But there are plenty of Cubs fans bringing down the average IQ across their fan base. I've heard just as many stupid and unintelligent baseball arguments when I've gone to Wrigley to enjoy a game while wearing my Brewers cap. It happens. At least neither of the teams (Cubs or Brewers) have the unbelievably dumb fan base that Sawx nation does.
We just have more right now because we're experiencing "Bandwagon Syndrome." Bunch of ignorant people that decide to buy a Sabathia jersey and go to one or two games because they're playing well, then hop on the internet and moan about how much they hate the Cubs.
Yeah, I'd love it if the Cubs started losing and giving up some ground to the Crew. But they're playing great baseball, which is good for them. They're a great team and I think this division race has been a blast. I think the possibility of the two meeting in the playoffs is amazing. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy my small-market team making a post-season run because it might not happen for another 26 years.
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Too many idiot Brewer fans. Go some other team for the wild card.
::) Really?
Apparently the north side must be littered with cracked mirrors.
I'm puzzled as to why no one else seems to have that huge a problem with Brewers fans, but fan bases from across the nation loathe Cubs fans.
All I DO know is, if I have to listen to one more person try to explain to me how Fukudome is the best right fielder in the National League because he started in the all star game, I might puke.
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Jesus, it's like talking to a teenager.
You don't know what information 'some people' will 'care about and don't know'.
I am a teenager ;D
And you really think people on here do care about your analysis of how dominant the Cubs played in their series against (enter team name here)? If so, it's weird that I'm the only one who responds to those posts, and it's a sarcastic "Cool!" or "Good to hear!" I'd think there would be more discussion about those posts if people cared about and didn't know.
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Another sweep heading into a 4 game home series against philli. We'll have the pitching advantage all 4 games.
I disagree with this statement. I like Hamels over Dempster personally... Just my opinion.
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Why is Bill Schroeder called Rock? Is it because he has the IQ of one? I can't stand him at all. I don't mind Brian Anderson but I despise Bill Schroeder.
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Why is Bill Schroeder called Rock? Is it because he has the IQ of one? I can't stand him at all. I don't mind Brian Anderson but I despise Bill Schroeder.
Yeah he's a fool. Everyone knows the Cardinals have been talking about how much they dislike the Brewers and especially Ryan Braun and then he comes up and gets hit right in the ribs and Anderson comments on how he thought there was a reason for that pitch and everyone knows they meant to hit him and Schroeder says, "I don't think there was any intent there at all." Some of the things he says are so out there it's ridiculous.
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I'm puzzled as to why no one else seems to have that huge a problem with Brewers fans, but fan bases from across the nation loathe Cubs fans.
I also don't hear anyone complaining about the fan bases of the Royals, Nationals, or Rangers. Weird.
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I also don't hear anyone complaining about the fan bases of the Royals, Nationals, or Rangers. Weird.
?
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I also don't hear anyone complaining about the fan bases of the Royals, Nationals, or Rangers. Weird.
Last place. Last place. 2 games under .500. Maybe I'm missing the connection here.
Oh yeah, we all must be "jealous" of the Cubs fan base. Perhaps it's a bewilderment at this insane superiority complex that goes along with following the "lovable losers." I know I'm personally baffled by this supposed sense of entitlement. Years of attending Brewers-Cubs games at Miller Park has soured any respect I ever had for Cubs fans as an entity. Am I supposed to be impressed that Chicago people are willing to offer $250 a ticket for a $30 ticket for a Brewers-Cubs matchup at Miller Park? Ignorance doesn't impress me. When the Cubs are bad, they're bad, and when they're good, they choke. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. But you keep holding on to that thread of hope, and we'll keep taking your money. Some of us, at least. I'll never sell my tickets.
Milwaukee's a fine baseball town. Certainly above average. A quality product is now being put on the field, and the fans are responding accordingly. So you keep sitting up on your pedestal and making comparisons to these garbage baseball towns. I hope it makes you feel all special and warm and fuzzy inside. We'll see you in the playoffs.
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/joe_posnanski/08/27/playoffs.cubs/index.html?eref=T1
favorite article of the week.
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You could be from the greater Milwaukee area, only two hours north of Chicago, where maybe you have had the whole lovable Cubs thing rammed down your throat all your life to the point of bursting.
Sounds about right.
I hope Posnanski didn't spend too long on his knees writing this one....
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Last place. Last place. 2 games under .500. Maybe I'm missing the connection here.
Oh yeah, we all must be "jealous" of the Cubs fan base. Perhaps it's a bewilderment at this insane superiority complex that goes along with following the "lovable losers." I know I'm personally baffled by this supposed sense of entitlement. Years of attending Brewers-Cubs games at Miller Park has soured any respect I ever had for Cubs fans as an entity. Am I supposed to be impressed that Chicago people are willing to offer $250 a ticket for a $30 ticket for a Brewers-Cubs matchup at Miller Park? Ignorance doesn't impress me. When the Cubs are bad, they're bad, and when they're good, they choke. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. But you keep holding on to that thread of hope, and we'll keep taking your money. Some of us, at least. I'll never sell my tickets.
Milwaukee's a fine baseball town. Certainly above average. A quality product is now being put on the field, and the fans are responding accordingly. So you keep sitting up on your pedestal and making comparisons to these garbage baseball towns. I hope it makes you feel all special and warm and fuzzy inside. We'll see you in the playoffs.
+1
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I am a teenager ;D
And you really think people on here do care about your analysis of how dominant the Cubs played in their series against (enter team name here)? If so, it's weird that I'm the only one who responds to those posts, and it's a sarcastic "Cool!" or "Good to hear!" I'd think there would be more discussion about those posts if people cared about and didn't know.
your comments prevent discusssion, you know this and make them, because you are a bitter spoiled fan. Looking back there have been numerous replys to my posts most recently by spartan.
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I disagree with this statement. I like Hamels over Dempster personally... Just my opinion.
I'm not saying dempster is going to win but, he has more wins, fewer losses, more quality starts, a better era and they are at home where he is even more dominant. So based on numbers, I don't see how you can make the claim that we don't have an advantage.
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your comments prevent discusssion, you know this and make them, because you are a bitter spoiled fan. Looking back there have been numerous replys to my posts most recently by spartan.
I'm curious how any Brewer can be spoiled. Bitter, eh. More like a little perturbed at the success of the Cubs, when the Crew is playing great ball.
When I think of spoiled I think of fan bases of the following teams
~Marlins
~BoSox
~Braves
~Patriots
~Bulls (in the 90's)
In no way can any Brewer fan act spoiled. Unless you consider spoiled as:
~finally have an owner willing to spend some money.
~having an electrified a fan base who is now willing to come out and support the team.
~trading away a top prospect and getting back the best pitcher in the MLB.
And ptm, still haven't heard who you would rather get the WC spot, Cards or the Crew?
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your comments prevent discusssion, you know this and make them, because you are a bitter spoiled fan. Looking back there have been numerous replys to my posts most recently by spartan.
I'm bitter and spoiled? What do I have to be bitter about? I haven't seen my team in a playoffs in my life and we have a 3 1/2 game lead in the Wild Card standings. I am very happy with the way the Brewers are playing. I forget who said it but I completely agree, if the Diamondbacks come out of the West I would rather win the Wild Card than the Division (obviously I would most like to win the Division over win the Wild Card but I would like the matchup better from winning the Wild Card). I quite honestly don't know what there is for me to be bitter about. I guess all those World Series Championships for the Cubs in my lifetime (or anyone's on this board...), or even World Series appearances in my lifetime, does make me quite bitter...err scratch that, never seen either of those. Yes I'd like to win the Division, but I don't think you realize that I'm not going to be depressed if we win the Wild Card. I want to go to the playoffs and whether it's Division winner or Wild Card I will be extremely happy. I am extremely happy with the way the Milwaukee Brewers have played baseball all year, and especially after the terrible series against the Cubs. Anything can happen in the playoffs so as long as we get there, I am EXTREMELY happy. So bitter? Maybe if you'd actually won something in the last, 100 years or so, but no.
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Maybe if you'd actually won something in the last, 100 years or so, but no.
win something, like the division, last year. When you choked. sorry i don't remember typing the word spoiled. Way to dedicate two long posts to it though.
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win something, like the division, last year. When you choked. sorry i don't remember typing the word spoiled. Way to dedicate two long posts to it though.
My bad DX. Clearly we are the idiots for your mistake.
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win something, like the division, last year. When you choked. sorry i don't remember typing the word spoiled. Way to dedicate two long posts to it though.
Wow, you won the division. Congratulations. You got swept in the first round. Won the same amount of playoffs games we did. Do you honestly think people remember division winners? Name me the 6 division winners from 3 years ago from looking it up. If you can do that then do it for 15 years ago. People don't remember division winners. People remember World Series winners, and SOMETIMES Championship Series winners, not Division winners. I remember the AL Championship Series winner from 1982. I don't recall the Cubs winning a Championship Series in that time. I'm sorry, but the Cubs have won nothing since 1945. A majority of the world's population wasn't even alive at that time. I guess I'm really bitter of that major success. It's right up there next to the Yankees and Red Sox.
Is it ironic that a Cubs fan is talking about how another team choked?!
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Cards for WC.
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Wow PTM. That's Crean like. You would rather see the Cardinals in the playoffs over that "small market" team who has only been in the NL for a couple years. A team that hasn't been to the playoffs in 26 years.
Are Brewers fans truly that awful? C'mon. The Cards/Cubs rivalry goes back something like 100 years, and you are now saying that you would rather see the Cards in the playoffs? I'm just flabbergasted.
What about you other Chub fans? '94, Rawdog, TT...Who would you rather see get the WC, Crew or the Cards??
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this was fun but the bitterness and defensive nature or people like reinko, wadesworld, and pxin is really killing this thread.
Just to check with you three. We aren't allowed to make posts about the cubs since no one cares about them. We aren't allowed to say anything about brewer fans because all cubs fans are idiots. We aren't allowed to hope that the cubs do what they are obviously capable of (win the world series) because that makes us ignorant. If someone says they are rooting for the cardnals to be in the playoffs then we are jerks for not wanting the small market team, but i'm guessing if i say that i want the cubs to play the brewers then you will be mad for not giving your team enough respect.
Brewer fans remind me of why i couldn't stand the inferiority complex of the people of the state of wisconsin. I was saying that i hope the brewers take the wc but you are all making it hard to keep that up.
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Wow PTM. That's Crean like. You would rather see the Cardinals in the playoffs over that "small market" team who has only been in the NL for a couple years. A team that hasn't been to the playoffs in 26 years.
Are Brewers fans truly that awful? C'mon. The Cards/Cubs rivalry goes back something like 100 years, and you are now saying that you would rather see the Cards in the playoffs? I'm just flabbergasted.
What about you other Chub fans? '94, Rawdog, TT...Who would you rather see get the WC, Crew or the Cards??
Give me the hair grease and spray-on tan.
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Wow PTM. That's Crean like. You would rather see the Cardinals in the playoffs over that "small market" team who has only been in the NL for a couple years. A team that hasn't been to the playoffs in 26 years.
Are Brewers fans truly that awful? C'mon. The Cards/Cubs rivalry goes back something like 100 years, and you are now saying that you would rather see the Cards in the playoffs? I'm just flabbergasted.
What about you other Chub fans? '94, Rawdog, TT...Who would you rather see get the WC, Crew or the Cards??
I'm guessing he would rather see the Cards because the Brewers have the front-end pitching to scare anybody in the playoffs while the Cards do not have a legitimate ace at the moment. Both teams have streaky offenses that can score a lot at times or be shut down for stretches.
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this was fun but the bitterness and defensive nature or people like reinko, wadesworld, and pxin is really killing this thread.
Just to check with you three. We aren't allowed to make posts about the cubs since no one cares about them. We aren't allowed to say anything about brewer fans because all cubs fans are idiots. We aren't allowed to hope that the cubs do what they are obviously capable of (win the world series) because that makes us ignorant. If someone says they are rooting for the cardnals to be in the playoffs then we are jerks for not wanting the small market team, but i'm guessing if i say that i want the cubs to play the brewers then you will be mad for not giving your team enough respect.
Brewer fans remind me of why i couldn't stand the inferiority complex of the people of the state of wisconsin. I was saying that i hope the brewers take the wc but you are all making it hard to keep that up.
I guess you and your Cubs fan friends on here have never said anything wrong in this topic. Our bad, Cubs fans are always correct and never say things that aren't true and go against anyone else. You can make those posts that nobody cares about, but don't be pissed when I post something sarcastic in reply. I forgot that this topic was meant for a logical analysis of how each team is dominating their opponents. My bad dawg.
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Brewer fans remind me of why i couldn't stand the inferiority complex of the people of the state of wisconsin.
Give me a break.
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Give me a break.
Well, if you think about it, we are so far inferior to the Cubs, considering they have so many World Series championships recently, so many World Series appearances recently, they're pretty much the most successful franchise in the history of baseball.
So, according to him, we feel inferior yet we are spoiled. Makes sense I think?
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Also, in case anybody was wondering; here is how the schedule shake out for each team:
# of Games Left
Home Road Series vs. Winning Teams
Cubs 12 17 6 of 9 (6 games each vs cubs and brewers)
Brewers (6 gb) 16 13 4 of 7 (no game vs cards)
Cards (9.5 gb) 13 15 4 of 7
It is going to be hard for the brewers, and especially the cards, to catch the cubs but it is not impossible given their remaining schedules.
Updated - I did not include the upcoming two series in my orginial post.
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this was fun but the bitterness and defensive nature or people like reinko, wadesworld, and pxin is really killing this thread.
Just to check with you three. We aren't allowed to make posts about the cubs since no one cares about them. We aren't allowed to say anything about brewer fans because all cubs fans are idiots. We aren't allowed to hope that the cubs do what they are obviously capable of (win the world series) because that makes us ignorant. If someone says they are rooting for the cardnals to be in the playoffs then we are jerks for not wanting the small market team, but i'm guessing if i say that i want the cubs to play the brewers then you will be mad for not giving your team enough respect.
Brewer fans remind me of why i couldn't stand the inferiority complex of the people of the state of wisconsin. I was saying that i hope the brewers take the wc but you are all making it hard to keep that up.
I'm all for good-spirited hazing. And when passionate people come together, some times it comes off as being a d*ck. But Rawdog, just a little context. What you just said claiming that Wisconsin people have an inferiority complex, we view many people from Chicago and Illinois as having a superioty complex.
Back to the pissing match. Wrigley Field is a crap-hole.
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Miller Park is a recently built crap hole.
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Miller Park is a recently built crap hole.
Craphole 2.0?
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Craphole 2.0?
More like Windows Vista
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Last place. Last place. 2 games under .500. Maybe I'm missing the connection here.
Three teams that lack a tradition of much success (I'm not talking WS, LCS, or even playoffs. I'm talking simply being in a race.) Three teams that accordingly do not get much media attention. Three teams that because of that, get little notice across the country. The Brewers fit into this category. They're changing that these last couple seasons, which is great, but a team has to have a presence nationally to be disliked by various fan bases. I'll take it as a compliment that there are enough Cubs fans around the country that "fan bases across the country loathe Cubs fans."
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Miller Park is a recently built crap hole.
That's just ignorant (and not normal Cubs fan ignorant, but actually ignorant). Miller Park consistently rates among the best stadiums in baseball since its construction. I've said it before and I'll say it again: there's a reason Wrigley will be undergoing major renovations in the near future.
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Three teams that lack a tradition of much success (I'm not talking WS, LCS, or even playoffs. I'm talking simply being in a race.) Three teams that accordingly do not get much media attention. Three teams that because of that, get little notice across the country. The Brewers fit into this category. They're changing that these last couple seasons, which is great, but a team has to have a presence nationally to be disliked by various fan bases. I'll take it as a compliment that there are enough Cubs fans around the country that "fan bases across the country loathe Cubs fans."
There are teams that are a hell of a lot more successful than the Cubs (1/3 of the teams in baseball) over the past 10 years but they aren't all hated like the Cubs are by various fans. The reason the Cubs are hated is because they have a large fanbase that thinks they are god's gift to baseball because they sell out Wrigley now, even though they haven't won much.
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That's just ignorant (and not normal Cubs fan ignorant, but actually ignorant). Miller Park consistently rates among the best stadiums in baseball since its construction. I've said it before and I'll say it again: there's a reason Wrigley will be undergoing major renovations in the near future.
Really? I would agree if: The roof closed in under 20 minutes. The roof moving didn't sound worse than nails on a chalkboard. The roof didn't leak. The visible plywood on the roof wasn't visible. Didn't look like garbage while traveling on Miller Park way. There wasn't excessive rusting. There wasn't excessive visible rust marks. The lighting was better.
Yep. Great new stadium.
Just because Miller Park has cheap tickets, large varieties of food, kids entertainment, and a sausage race doesn't mean it's a good stadium.
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, What you just said claiming that Wisconsin people have an inferiority complex, we view many people from Chicago and Illinois as having a superioty complex.
You think i don't know that you think that? I was responding to phxy's or whatever his name is post. But you tell me who has the complex:
You ask members of group A what they think of group B and they respond with: shrugs, 'they seem nice', 'we vaction up there it's a great area'
You ask members of group B what they think of group A and they respond with: THose Fing A group Bastards!, I wish they would stop vactioning up here even though we show commercials telling them to, They think they are better than us!
The problem with mu alums is they only spent a lot of time with people from IL who have had to take crap from wisconisites for years. AND living with you and is what causes the alleged 'superiority' complex. There is no word the equivalant of the word FIB in Il. A word that was used to describe the parents of student in the graduation edition of the mu trib in 2003 and used by the family of my college girlfriend to describe me. How do you expect any rational being to deal with it. Every IL person has no problem with wisconsin people till they find out that the wisconsin people grow up hating and swearing at them. If you found out that everyone in delaware hated wisconsin would you say: "What's there problem?" Yes you would because they would be the ones with a problem.
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You think i don't know that you think that? I was responding to phxy's or whatever his name is post. But you tell me who has the complex:
You ask members of group A what they think of group B and they respond with: shrugs, 'they seem nice', 'we vaction up there it's a great area'
You ask members of group B what they think of group A and they respond with: THose Fing A group Bastards!, I wish they would stop vactioning up here even though we show commercials telling them to, They think they are better than us!
The problem with mu alums is they only spent a lot of time with people from IL who have had to take crap from wisconisites for years. AND living with you and is what causes the alleged 'superiority' complex. There is no word the equivalant of the word FIB in Il. A word that was used to describe the parents of student in the graduation edition of the mu trib in 2003 and used by the family of my college girlfriend to describe me. How do you expect any rational being to deal with it. Every IL person has no problem with wisconsin people till they find out that the wisconsin people grow up hating and swearing at them. If you found out that everyone in delaware hated wisconsin would you say: "What's there problem?" Yes you would because they would be the ones with a problem.
+1
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You think i don't know that you think that? I was responding to phxy's or whatever his name is post. But you tell me who has the complex:
You ask members of group A what they think of group B and they respond with: shrugs, 'they seem nice', 'we vaction up there it's a great area'
You ask members of group B what they think of group A and they respond with: THose Fing A group Bastards!, I wish they would stop vactioning up here even though we show commercials telling them to, They think they are better than us!
The problem with mu alums is they only spent a lot of time with people from IL who have had to take crap from wisconisites for years. AND living with you and is what causes the alleged 'superiority' complex. There is no word the equivalant of the word FIB in Il. A word that was used to describe the parents of student in the graduation edition of the mu trib in 2003 and used by the family of my college girlfriend to describe me. How do you expect any rational being to deal with it. Every IL person has no problem with wisconsin people till they find out that the wisconsin people grow up hating and swearing at them. If you found out that everyone in delaware hated wisconsin would you say: "What's there problem?" Yes you would because they would be the ones with a problem.
Forget +1. That's like +1,000,000. Dead on.
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You think i don't know that you think that? I was responding to phxy's or whatever his name is post. But you tell me who has the complex:
You ask members of group A what they think of group B and they respond with: shrugs, 'they seem nice', 'we vaction up there it's a great area'
You ask members of group B what they think of group A and they respond with: THose Fing A group Bastards!, I wish they would stop vactioning up here even though we show commercials telling them to, They think they are better than us!
The problem with mu alums is they only spent a lot of time with people from IL who have had to take crap from wisconisites for years. AND living with you and is what causes the alleged 'superiority' complex. There is no word the equivalant of the word FIB in Il. A word that was used to describe the parents of student in the graduation edition of the mu trib in 2003 and used by the family of my college girlfriend to describe me. How do you expect any rational being to deal with it. Every IL person has no problem with wisconsin people till they find out that the wisconsin people grow up hating and swearing at them. If you found out that everyone in delaware hated wisconsin would you say: "What's there problem?" Yes you would because they would be the ones with a problem.
And yet, this thread lives on through 35 pages of idiocy (from both sides). If Cubs fans truly don't care about the Brewers and their fans, why can't the Cubs fans on this board seem to let it go? And why was this thread started by a Cubs fan? The whole "they seem nice" theory just doesn't hold any water, fellas.
Furthermore, Wisconsinites would have no problem with our neighbors to the south if said neighbors weren't such @$$holes to deal with ;D
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Really? I would agree if: The roof closed in under 20 minutes. The roof moving didn't sound worse than nails on a chalkboard. The roof didn't leak. The visible plywood on the roof wasn't visible. Didn't look like garbage while traveling on Miller Park way. There wasn't excessive rusting. There wasn't excessive visible rust marks. The lighting was better.
Yep. Great new stadium.
Just because Miller Park has cheap tickets, large varieties of food, kids entertainment, and a sausage race doesn't mean it's a good stadium.
I took your original post about Miller Park being a crap hole as a joke in response to Wrigley being one, but clearly you weren't joking, which is ridiculous. You seriously are saying that Miller Park is not nice? So the game has to be delayed for 15 minutes if it rains...I'd rather delay it for 15 minutes rather than have to cancel it as a whole. The fact that it makes noise makes the roof bad too? Wow. Look like garbage? I'm not sure what you're looking at...Lighting was better? How is it any different than any other team's lighting? Where are the rust marks that you speak of? On the bricks that are all outside? Bricks don't rust. Your post is one of the worst post's I've seen on this board, and that's saying something. Obsess about the roof some more please, because all stadiums have a nice retractable roof to allow games to be played even if it is bad weather...Why didn't the Indians and Angels play their series at Wrigley Field when it was snowing in Cleveland last year? I mean, who would move their series to such a dump, right?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/MIller_Park_May_25_2005.jpg
WOW that is ugly, all the visible rust marks on the...bricks and windows? and the visible plywood?
http://blog.aia.org/mt-static/plugins/Ajaxify/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/imagemanager/images/favorite_architecture_images/wrigley_600_x_376.jpg
Now THAT is what a baseball stadium should look like, SO sexy.
RIIIIIIIIIIGHT
Have you seen the rankings of the best stadiums in the MLB? I have yet to see one where Miller Park is out of the top 5, and a majority of the lists have them ranked as number 1. But of course the Cubs fans are the ones who know all and are never wrong, so it must be garbage because they say so...
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Really? I would agree if: The roof closed in under 20 minutes. The roof moving didn't sound worse than nails on a chalkboard. The roof didn't leak. The visible plywood on the roof wasn't visible. Didn't look like garbage while traveling on Miller Park way. There wasn't excessive rusting. There wasn't excessive visible rust marks. The lighting was better.
Yep. Great new stadium.
Just because Miller Park has cheap tickets, large varieties of food, kids entertainment, and a sausage race doesn't mean it's a good stadium.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/09/11/fvi.summary/index.html
They tend to disagree. But you are clearly the authority on this matter, so I'll take your word for it.
To respond to RawDog's post...
You ask members of group A what they think of group B and they respond with: shrugs, 'they seem nice', 'we vaction up there it's a great area'
Don't even spew that crap at me. I know you've been to a Cubs-Brewers game at Miller Park. I know marqptm has, too. If you can say that s*** with a straight face and believe it, you should look into Hollywood. I don't remember the Cubs fan saying that before they ran down our tailgating aisle last season and tipped over the grills of Brewer fans. I didn't hear that from the d-bag in the Soriano jersey AT BREWERS OPENING DAY who was escorted out for drunken rowdiness in the 6th inning. I don't hear that.
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u realize FIB was a response to "cheese heads" don't you?
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Three teams that lack a tradition of much success (I'm not talking WS, LCS, or even playoffs. I'm talking simply being in a race.) Three teams that accordingly do not get much media attention. Three teams that because of that, get little notice across the country. The Brewers fit into this category. They're changing that these last couple seasons, which is great, but a team has to have a presence nationally to be disliked by various fan bases. I'll take it as a compliment that there are enough Cubs fans around the country that "fan bases across the country loathe Cubs fans."
It wasn't intended as one. I have no problem with "the Nation." They tend to mind their own business. I'm not a fan of the team because it's so cliche, but it's not that bad. Yankees fans can be obnoxious, but it's not to the level of Cubs fans. Both those teams have a "presence" because they're in the playoffs on a yearly basis, play in big markets, and have huge payrolls. Chicago has a national presence because WGN is a nationally syndicated network, and somewhere along the line it became cool to blindly cheer for the loser. The Cubs are a damn good team this season. I saw that pretty clearly at both the games I went to.
Obviously, you can only speak for yourself, and it's not up to you to control your entire fan base, but you should at least be able to acknowledge that there's such a LARGE proportion of Cubs fans who are really mediocre baseball fans and come up to Milwaukee to do nothing but cause trouble that it's an embarrassment.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: there's a reason Wrigley will be undergoing major renovations in the near future.
The reason is because it's the second oldest park in mlb...
I don't think Miller Park will last as long as Wrigley, but I love Miller Park too. Especially after freezing my ass off every opening day at County Stadium. Love the tailgating too. Now County Stadium was a crap-hole and did look like garbage after it had to stay open an extra year.
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Now County Stadium was a crap-hole and did look like garbage after it had to stay open an extra year.
I always thought County Stadium looked like the Todd Wehr buildings (Todd Wehr Chemistry, Todd Wehr Physics, Todd Wehr Life Sciences) on campus from the 50s and 60s.
Should have called it Todd Wehr Baseball.
Wehr Marquette!
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Zing!!! :D
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To respond to RawDog's post...
Don't even spew that crap at me. I know you've been to a Cubs-Brewers game at Miller Park. I know marqptm has, too. If you can say that s*** with a straight face and believe it, you should look into Hollywood. I don't remember the Cubs fan saying that before they ran down our tailgating aisle last season and tipped over the grills of Brewer fans. I didn't hear that from the d-bag in the Soriano jersey AT BREWERS OPENING DAY who was escorted out for drunken rowdiness in the 6th inning. I don't hear that.
I don't know why you think you know me but no, I've only been to cubs/brewers games in chicago. But that is amazing that someone got kicked out of the game in a cubs jersey, i'm sure that doesn't happen to at least one person in a brewers jersey every game. The guys tipping grills sound like complete pretty boys, i apoligize for their behavior although it couldnt' have been that common of an occurance since this is the first mention of it on this board.
in an unrelated note i want to apologize to the cubs for turning the channel and not seeing them tie the brewers for most come back wins in the NL today. I'm not going to say what i turned the tv to as it would be in violation of a new superbar rule.
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And yet, this thread lives on through 35 pages of idiocy (from both sides). If Cubs fans truly don't care about the Brewers and their fans, why can't the Cubs fans on this board seem to let it go? And why was this thread started by a Cubs fan? The whole "they seem nice" theory just doesn't hold any water, fellas.
Furthermore, Wisconsinites would have no problem with our neighbors to the south if said neighbors weren't such @$$holes to deal with ;D
Nice try but i specificly stated that people who went to mu do develop 'superiority' complexes as a result of dealing with baseless insults about their state of origin. assuming that people commenting on this thread are either mu grads or fans who are probably from wisco the argument doesn't hold water.
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Nice try but i specificly stated that people who went to mu do develop 'superiority' complexes as a result of dealing with baseless insults about their state of origin. assuming that people commenting on this thread are either mu grads or fans who are probably from wisco the argument doesn't hold water.
And I'm saying the insults aren't baseless. I have many friends from Illinois, but compared to Wisconsinites, they're a$$holes. In fact, I have my a$$hole Cubs fan friends to thank for making me a bigger Brewers fan.
Furthermore, you didn't address my post, the point of which was this: if all of you Cubs fans, as you claim, don't care about the Brewers, then there's no reason for this thread to have gone on as long as it has, and there's no reason for all of you to get so defensive/"superiority" complexed. Face it. You guys hate the Brewers as much as we hate the Cubs. To say otherwise is, frankly, a bald-faced lie.
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I created this thread because every post in the Superbar ended up as a Cubs Brewers pissing match.
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I don't know why you think you know me but no, I've only been to cubs/brewers games in chicago. But that is amazing that someone got kicked out of the game in a cubs jersey, i'm sure that doesn't happen to at least one person in a brewers jersey every game. The guys tipping grills sound like complete pretty boys, i apoligize for their behavior although it couldnt' have been that common of an occurance since this is the first mention of it on this board.
in an unrelated note i want to apologize to the cubs for turning the channel and not seeing them tie the brewers for most come back wins in the NL today. I'm not going to say what i turned the tv to as it would be in violation of a new superbar rule.
I apologize. I thought you had mentioned that a time or two in this thread, but that must have just been ptm who has attended Brewers-Cubs games in Milwaukee.
I also know for a fact someone in a Brewers jersey (or two.. or three...) get kicked out at every single game at Miller Park. But that wasn't my point. This was a belligerent drunk man in a Soriano at a BREWERS-GIANTS game in APRIL. What is his motive for even being in the stadium? He clearly didn't have any affiliation to either team, and his actions dictate that he really had no interest in watching a good baseball game. He just wanted to shove it in everyone's face that he was a Cubs fan and cause a bit of trouble. Classy.
EDIT: I realize I should have been more specific. This was the Brewers home opener at Miller Park, NOT Opening Day, which clearly was Cubs-Brewers at Wrigley. Again, I apologize.
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And I'm saying the insults aren't baseless. I have many friends from Illinois, but compared to Wisconsinites, they're a$$holes. In fact, I have my a$$hole Cubs fan friends to thank for making me a bigger Brewers fan.
Furthermore, you didn't address my post, the point of which was this: if all of you Cubs fans, as you claim, don't care about the Brewers, then there's no reason for this thread to have gone on as long as it has, and there's no reason for all of you to get so defensive/"superiority" complexed. Face it. You guys hate the Brewers as much as we hate the Cubs. To say otherwise is, frankly, a bald-faced lie.
yeah and illinai fans have made me hate U of IL and MI fans have made me hate MI and x fans have made me hate x more and people who hate y make me like y more, blah blah.
and yes i did address this. This is a cubs v brewers thread. It will keep going because the people who read it will continue to post messages. Please find a place where i indicate i 'hate' the brewers. seriously go for it. I really don't. If our team sucked i would cheer for your team in a second over the cards.
So every cub fan who posts here automatically 'hates' the brewers? please.
and you have no response to my FIB = you guys have an inferiority complex statement do you?
ps. wasted = me right now
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I apologize. I thought you had mentioned that a time or two in this thread, but that must have just been ptm who has attended Brewers-Cubs games in Milwaukee.
I also know for a fact someone in a Brewers jersey (or two.. or three...) get kicked out at every single game at Miller Park. But that wasn't my point. This was a belligerent drunk man in a Soriano at a BREWERS-GIANTS game in APRIL. What is his motive for even being in the stadium? He clearly didn't have any affiliation to either team, and his actions dictate that he really had no interest in watching a good baseball game. He just wanted to shove it in everyone's face that he was a Cubs fan and cause a bit of trouble. Classy.
EDIT: I realize I should have been more specific. This was the Brewers home opener at Miller Park, NOT Opening Day, which clearly was Cubs-Brewers at Wrigley. Again, I apologize.
it's cool i thought from the way you were posting that you might have been a regular here but i guess you are just another newb. ;)
as for his motives i'm guessing he wanted to get some guy to write posts about him 4 months later.
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I created this thread because every post in the Superbar ended up as a Cubs Brewers pissing match.
+1
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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/MIller_Park_May_25_2005.jpg
WOW that is ugly, all the visible rust marks on the...bricks and windows? and the visible plywood?
Yep. I can see the plywood on the end of the roof there. They had to be installed due to the constant maintenance on the roof for the safety of the workers. I really wouldn't know this if my company hadn't been directly involved with the construction.
And the rust is there as well. Look at the white sections underneath the roof, and that picture is from 2005. The stadium has clearly not aged well.
I enjoy my baseball without a roof, rain or shine. If you haven't noticed, retractable roofs have gone the way of the Zubaz pants. But wait, there's still a lot of Zubaz in the state of Wisconsin, so the craptacular roof fits right in.
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I really wouldn't know this if my company hadn't been directly involved with the construction.
So what does this say about you and your company, then? You guys must be Craptacular, too!
Nice comeback win for the Chubs last night...I turned back to Obama figuring the game was over when it was 4-1 in the 8th. As a Brewer fan I can only hope that the Chubs win the division early, put it in neutral and can't ramp it back up for the NLCS against the Crew.
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So what does this say about you and your company, then? You guys must be Craptacular, too!
Nice comeback win for the Chubs last night...I turned back to Obama figuring the game was over when it was 4-1 in the 8th. As a Brewer fan I can only hope that the Chubs win the division early, put it in neutral and can't ramp it back up for the NLCS against the Crew.
Not really. If your craptacular state would have paid to construct the stadium properly, there would have been no issues or deaths. It's not like Wisconsin doesn't have ridiculous taxes not to pay for it.
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Not really. If your craptacular state would have paid to construct the stadium properly, there would have been no issues or deaths. It's not like Wisconsin doesn't have ridiculous taxes not to pay for it.
Alright, you can tell yourself that Miller Park sucks all you want. You and the rest of your Cubs fan friends are the only people in the nation who will agree with that, but who are we kidding? What the Cubs fans say is the only opinion that matters and nothing else could possibly be true. I'd definitely rather have my game played in 65 degrees if it's 30 degrees and snowing and actually play the game even if it was raining rather than play in football weather or not play at all. But yeah, that 15 minute delay to close the roof is really a hassle, much more than having to squeeze a double header in somewhere while it's snowing.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/09/11/fvi.summary/index.html
Weird, Miller Park ranked 4th, Wrigley ranked 24th. Clearly Wrigley is much better. This isn't even put together by biased writers, it's voted on by fans, and I'd be willing to put money on more Cubs fans having voted than Brewers fans, so Wrigley would be more inflated by their own fans' votes than Miller Park would be. But again, Cubs fans' opinions are the only ones that matter, that difference of 20 (out of 30 overall) means nothing...Miller Park's the crap hole and Wrigley is the best.
And before you waste your time stating that that's from 2006 rankings and that the rankings have probably changed, let me tell you that that argument is correct...and that the 2008 rankings by SI for MLB Ballparks has Miller Park ranked as the 2nd best ballpark, so that whole aging problem is apparently just making Miller Park that much more attractive. And by the way, Wrigley isn't getting any younger itself...
But the retractable roof that we have is such a hassle, and the one that you...don't have...isn't. Makes sense as to why Wrigley is better...roofs make everything, I'd rather not have one and rain out games than have one that makes noises when it closes.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/179923/top_10_mlb_ballpark_rankings.html?page=3&cat=14
Miller Park 5...Wrigley not in top 10.
http://pregame.com/forums/blogs/matty-oshea/archive/2008/05/02/2008-mlb-ballpark-rankings-hello-cleveland-brew-crew-2nd.aspx
Miller Park 2...Wrigley 15
Find me ONE site that has Wrigley ranked above Miller Park that wasn't created by one guy who has just visited a couple stadiums once and MAYBE I won't laugh and question any credibility you've ever had on anything when you try to make the claim that Miller Park's a crap hole.
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Not really. If your craptacular state would have paid to construct the stadium properly, there would have been no issues or deaths. It's not like Wisconsin doesn't have ridiculous taxes not to pay for it.
Isn't it the construction companies that laid out the budget for the stadium? Why is it the state's fault that the stadium was over budget? The state raised enough money for the stadium as it was architected.
The crane collapse added time/cost on to the project - but wasn't it the construction company's decision to raise that roof piece in high winds that day in an effort to try to get back on schedule?
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If you haven't noticed, retractable roofs have gone the way of the Zubaz pants.
Pay attention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Oil_Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Oil_Stadium)
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Pay attention.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Oil_Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Oil_Stadium)
Minnesota Ballpark? Citi Field? New Yankee Stadium? Miami Baseball Stadium? Rays new stadium? Cisco Field?
Pay attention. Yeah, that's right, you're a unnatural carnal knowledgeing idiot.Typical Wisconsin.
You do realize that the State of Wisconsin had to reject the first bids for the stadium as they were all out of budget. The State then cheapened up on their materials and plans to get it within budget. Contractors build it to what their instructed by the approved engineering plans, everyone knows that the State was at a major fault. Also, the roof raising was pushed by the State's inspectors and the subcontractor, do some research.
wadesworld. For ratings, I don't care. I don't care about the food stands, ticket prices, parking, none of that matters. We both know that nothing beat Wrigley Field. Feel free to bring up all the little extra items used in ratings for the families to save some money. The fact of the matter is that Wrigley and Fenway are the preferred choice stadiums. No one. NO ONE will ever say,"I want to go to Miller Park before I die" NO ONE will ever plan a trip to Miller Park.
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NO ONE will ever plan a trip to Miller Park.
My wife's parents who are HUGE Cubs fans make a yearly trip to Milwaukee to see a game at Miller Park - its NEVER during a Cubs/Brewers game. They just love going to games at Miller Park every year. In my father-in-law's own words: "Miller Park is the best park built in the last 20 years, hands down." And he's been to many of the newer parks, so I sorta respect his judgement on such things. Who's the fracking idiot now?
Honestly PTM, you have some SERIOUS, SERIOUS venom for anything Wisconsin. Almost unhealthy. I'm not sure what made you come to school at Marquette - my only guess is a free ride? I can't think of any other reason that would make such an angry person choose a school in a place that he despises so much.
I dislike Chicago - but 99% of that stems from the sports teams. The other 1% is the traffic I have to deal with to get to the in-laws' house in Indiana/Michigan. Not sure where your hatred comes from....I'd love to hear the reason if you care to post it.
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Pay attention. Yeah, that's right, you're a fracking idiot.Typical Wisconsin.
...
wadesworld. For ratings, I don't care. I don't care about the food stands, ticket prices, parking, none of that matters. We both know that nothing beat Wrigley Field. Feel free to bring up all the little extra items used in ratings for the families to save some money. The fact of the matter is that Wrigley and Fenway are the preferred choice stadiums. No one. NO ONE will ever say,"I want to go to Miller Park before I die" NO ONE will ever plan a trip to Miller Park.
Why do Chicago people ALWAYS talk about how HORRIBLE of a city Milwaukee is, yet continue to attend Marquette University, in the heart of Milwaukee. That makes no sense to me. If Chicago was so unbelievably great and Milwaukee was so terribly bad then why do people always come up here? It's not like Marquette is THAT great of an educational institute. University of Chicago and Northwestern University, in Chicago, are both outstanding schools in Chicago, but people continue to come from Chicago, God's gift to the world, up to Milwaukee, the polar opposite. If people are rejected from those schools, there are other schools with the same entrance standards as Marquette University that are not in the terrible city of Milwaukee, with all the Wisconsinite idiots in it. Two of these schools would be Xavier and Creighton, both Jesuit universities that are very similar in academic standings. I can't believe so many people who absolutely hate the city, state, and people of Wisconsin would come to Wisconsin to go to school. Why?
You don't care about price? You don't care about food? You must be crazy then. Do you care if you pay for a ticket and then the game gets rained out and moved to another day that you can't attend that game? I suppose not because our roof is so bad that we shouldn't even have it...I'm pretty sure Cubs fans plan trips to Miller Park every time the Cubs play in Milwaukee, so that was a pretty bad argument.
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Why do Chicago people ALWAYS talk about how HORRIBLE of a city Milwaukee is, yet continue to attend Marquette University, in the heart of Milwaukee. That makes no sense to me. If Chicago was so unbelievably great and Milwaukee was so terribly bad then why do people always come up here? It's not like Marquette is THAT great of an educational institute. University of Chicago and Northwestern University, in Chicago, are both outstanding schools in Chicago, but people continue to come from Chicago, God's gift to the world, up to Milwaukee, the polar opposite. If people are rejected from those schools, there are other schools with the same entrance standards as Marquette University that are not in the terrible city of Milwaukee, with all the Wisconsinite idiots in it. Two of these schools would be Xavier and Creighton, both Jesuit universities that are very similar in academic standings. I can't believe so many people who absolutely hate the city, state, and people of Wisconsin would come to Wisconsin to go to school. Why?
You don't care about price? You don't care about food? You must be crazy then. Do you care if you pay for a ticket and then the game gets rained out and moved to another day that you can't attend that game? I suppose not because our roof is so bad that we shouldn't even have it...I'm pretty sure Cubs fans plan trips to Miller Park every time the Cubs play in Milwaukee, so that was a pretty bad argument.
Yea, because Marquette is pretty comparable to U of Chicago or Northwestern ::).
And Xavier and Creighton are pretty comparable to Marquette ::). They don't have nearly the same national alumni base, nor are either even ranked within the top 130 national universities according to U.S. News. Never mind the fact that Creighton is also about 7 hours from Chicago, and Xavier is about 5 hours - both a lot longer than and hour and a half for us Chicagoans.
Milwaukee sucks. I didn't like it because it's not for me. I'm from Chicago. I'm used to a big city. I need a sense of urgency when doing things and going places and certainly don't have that country "aww shucks" attitude. People move slowly in Milwaukee, drive slowly, and I've thought many times that Marquette needed to offer a class in walking (not because people walk slowly, but because people just flat out don't know how to walk - stopping in the middle of a main path and blocking it off, etc. - tons of MU students have to agree with me there). These are also the same reasons why I wouldn't enjoy living on the laid back west coast, or in a smaller city in general.
That being said, I loved my time at Marquette and wish I was going back there right now to continue classes as I am still coping with the recent graduate status. We go to Marquette because there isn't a school in Chicago comparable to it, and most of us don't mind living in Milwaukee for only four years while enjoying ourselves in college. Plus, isn't it the college experience to kind of get out of your home city? Marquette is perfect for us - great education, great, national alumni base, competitive sports scene, away from home, but close enough that we can go home for a weekend if we need to. I'll put up with four years of Milwaukee for that.
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Minnesota Ballpark? Citi Field? New Yankee Stadium? Miami Baseball Stadium? Rays new stadium? Cisco Field?
Pay attention. Yeah, that's right, you're a fracking idiot.Typical Wisconsin.
You do realize that the State of Wisconsin had to reject the first bids for the stadium as they were all out of budget. The State then cheapened up on their materials and plans to get it within budget. Contractors build it to what their instructed by the approved engineering plans, everyone knows that the State was at a major fault. Also, the roof raising was pushed by the State's inspectors and the subcontractor, do some research.
wadesworld. For ratings, I don't care. I don't care about the food stands, ticket prices, parking, none of that matters. We both know that nothing beat Wrigley Field. Feel free to bring up all the little extra items used in ratings for the families to save some money. The fact of the matter is that Wrigley and Fenway are the preferred choice stadiums. No one. NO ONE will ever say,"I want to go to Miller Park before I die" NO ONE will ever plan a trip to Miller Park.
Let me get this straight....you're saying that since only one of about six new major stadiums will have a retractable roof that the retractable roof has "gone the way of Zubaz?" That seems to imply that at some point, retractable roofs were commonplace, that a good proportion of stadiums had them. This has never been the case, and once again your argument holds no water. Thanks for playing, and thanks for the personal attack.
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Find me ONE site that has Wrigley ranked above Miller Park that wasn't created by one guy who has just visited a couple stadiums once and MAYBE I won't laugh and question any credibility you've ever had on anything when you try to make the claim that Miller Park's a crap hole.
You asked for it:
http://www.portfolio.com/interactive-features/2008/05/Foul-Ballpark (http://www.portfolio.com/interactive-features/2008/05/Foul-Ballpark)
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You asked for it:
http://www.portfolio.com/interactive-features/2008/05/Foul-Ballpark (http://www.portfolio.com/interactive-features/2008/05/Foul-Ballpark)
"Violations are for 2007 from online reports, which were not available for all stadiums...."
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Why do Chicago people ALWAYS talk about how HORRIBLE of a city Milwaukee is, yet continue to attend Marquette University, in the heart of Milwaukee. That makes no sense to me. If Chicago was so unbelievably great and Milwaukee was so terribly bad then why do people always come up here? It's not like Marquette is THAT great of an educational institute. University of Chicago and Northwestern University, in Chicago, are both outstanding schools in Chicago, but people continue to come from Chicago, God's gift to the world, up to Milwaukee, the polar opposite. If people are rejected from those schools, there are other schools with the same entrance standards as Marquette University that are not in the terrible city of Milwaukee, with all the Wisconsinite idiots in it. Two of these schools would be Xavier and Creighton, both Jesuit universities that are very similar in academic standings. I can't believe so many people who absolutely hate the city, state, and people of Wisconsin would come to Wisconsin to go to school. Why?
You don't care about price? You don't care about food? You must be crazy then. Do you care if you pay for a ticket and then the game gets rained out and moved to another day that you can't attend that game? I suppose not because our roof is so bad that we shouldn't even have it...I'm pretty sure Cubs fans plan trips to Miller Park every time the Cubs play in Milwaukee, so that was a pretty bad argument.
Your right that is what we are ALWAYS doing. I don't eat, sleep or work.
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1.) Retractable roofs were being designed for every new stadium. Since, all new stadiums are being designed without them. So they were very popular, and now they aren't. Failing to see how that isn't working out for you.
2.) Good for your parents (Safeco is a much better field), great for Cubs fans. Wrigley Field is a destination. Miller Park is not. Wrigley Field is that because of his history, tradition, greatness, surroundings and atmosphere. Miller Park has none of these. I don't care about prices. If I want to see a game, I'll pay for it. If I want to be closer, I'll pay for it. Food? You'd be dumb to eat anything more than a snack at Wrigley. The surrounding neighborhood has twice as many desirable restaurants than Milwaukee as a whole. If your game gets rained out, that's great, as a fan I get to go to Wrigley again. I know for Brewer fans, it can be a hassle to make it to the Park.
3.) I used to love Wisconsin. I was excited to go to school in Milwaukee. I used to cheer for the Brewers. I have a Turnbow jersey shirt because I liked him, but it did come in handy to mock people. If the taxes weren't so high, I would probably cross the state line to buy a house in Wisconsin. It's the people of Wisconsin that have made me loathe Wisconsin. The general attitude irks me like no other. The sense of satisfaction with mediocrity covers the state.
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Retractable roofs were being designed for every new stadium. FALSE
Since, all new stadiums are being designed without them. FALSE
So they were very popular, and now they aren't. by logic, FALSE
Please, PLEASE show me blueprints/plans for "every new stadium" that shows designs for retractable roofs.
Lucas Oil Field has a retractable roof. University of Phoenix Stadium has a retractable roof. The Cowboys' new stadium will have a retractable roof. So will the Vikings' new home. There's a stadium under construction in Turkey that will also have a retractable roof. There's a new stadium being planned in Sweden that will also have (get this) a RETRACTABLE ROOF.
Hell, check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Retractable-roof_stadiums (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Retractable-roof_stadiums)
I know it's hard for a Cubs fan to admit as much, but you're wrong. It's OK.
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Please, PLEASE show me blueprints/plans for "every new stadium" that shows designs for retractable roofs.
Lucas Oil Field has a retractable roof. University of Phoenix Stadium has a retractable roof. The Cowboys' new stadium will have a retractable roof. So will the Vikings' new home. There's a stadium under construction in Turkey that will also have a retractable roof. There's a new stadium being planned in Sweden that will also have (get this) a RETRACTABLE ROOF.
Hell, check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Retractable-roof_stadiums (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Retractable-roof_stadiums)
I know it's hard for a Cubs fan to admit as much, but you're wrong. It's OK.
Any of those a baseball stadium by chance?
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Any of those a baseball stadium by chance?
No they're not, but, if we're being technical, you simply stated that retractable roofed stadiums had fallen out of favor. The list I provided is pretty solid evidence to the contrary. You never specified baseball stadiums.
So you might prefer outdoor baseball. So do I. But it is awfully nice to have that roof when you need it--just ask the Angels, Indians and Major League Baseball. I don't mind bundling up for a game at Lambeau (a true gem of a stadium, in any sport), but I shouldn't have to bring a blanket to watch the boys of summer.
Miller Park's roof isn't perfect. Anyone who would try to argue otherwise is an idiot. But let's say Chase Field has problems with its roof someday. Would you hate the stadium, the team and their fans because of it? I doubt it.
I've said it repeatedly: the main reason behind your disdain for Miller Park is that it's the home of the Brewers, about whom you claim not to care at all. That claim is pretty clearly a lie.
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the twins, for some reason, aren't putting one on their new place, even though they had A LOT of snow the first day of the season this year and I certainly wouldn't want to play outside at night in MN in April or October.
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Over the cubs current winning streak the bull pen's era has been 1.4. Opposing era's have been over 11. Solid. We are now leading the majors in come from behind victories.*
*actually tied for the Yankees.
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Over the cubs current winning streak the bull pen's era has been 1.4. Opposing era's have been over 11. Solid. We are now leading the majors in come from behind victories.*
*actually tied for the Yankees.
Nice man!
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You asked for it:
http://www.portfolio.com/interactive-features/2008/05/Foul-Ballpark (http://www.portfolio.com/interactive-features/2008/05/Foul-Ballpark)
?
I don't see any rankings whatsoever on this site. They're showing that they've found dirty things in ballparks, not ranking ballparks. You'll find dirty things in EVERY ballpark.
Valiant effort on finding a ranking of ballparks that doesn't have Miller Park above Wrigley Field, though.
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I was just at Lucas Oil Stadium for a business trip...awesome place esp. when you have an all access pass during the game!!!
However, I will side with PTM here, I do like my baseball outside. A little rain never hurt anybody. And if it gets rained out, they play a double header. Double headers use to be a scheduled thing once a year i believe. LETS PLAY 2!!
Baseball was meant to be played outside!!!
so was football.
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I was just at Lucas Oil Stadium for a business trip...awesome place esp. when you have an all access pass during the game!!!
However, I will side with PTM here, I do like my baseball outside. A little rain never hurt anybody. And if it gets rained out, they play a double header. Double headers use to be a scheduled thing once a year i believe. LETS PLAY 2!!
Baseball was meant to be played outside!!!
so was football.
I agree, baseball was meant to be outside, I would PREFER it to be played outside, and rain never hurt anybody, but I'd also PREFER to have that option to close up the roof if there is a possibility of a weather-related delay/cancellation. I would also prefer it if it is snowing on Opening Day (or any other time of the year)...I'm not a fan of going to a baseball game in football weather, baseball's a summer sport. I don't MIND watching it in the cold, but I'd rather watch it under a roof that keeps it 65 degrees then watch it in 25 degree weather. That is why the roof is huge, because I like it when it is played with the roof open/outside, but I also like the possibility of closing the roof. I love doubleheaders, but what happens when the last meeting between 2 teams in the year gets rained out and at least 1 of them has another series starting the next day? It becomes a hassle. And as a fan, what if the game that got rained out is reschedule on a day that you have other commitments and can't make the game? Then it's a little bit disappointing. I'm not saying I want a dome...I'd be disappointed if Miller Park was strictly a dome...I think the retractable roof is the perfect idea for baseball (even if it does make sounds/take some time to close).
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I now officially HATE Harly Davidsons. This damn parade sounds like there are a million Cubs fans running down Wisconsin Avenue, talking out of the butt about how good their sports teams are and how terrible Milwaukee is, with no basis for their arguments at all! They're all just making loud noises!
(Calm down, it's just a joke...except the part about officially hating Harly Davidsons).
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I now officially HATE Harly Davidsons. This damn parade sounds like there are a million Cubs fans running down Wisconsin Avenue, talking out of the butt about how good their sports teams are and how terrible Milwaukee is, with no basis for their arguments at all! They're all just making loud noises!
(Calm down, it's just a joke...except the part about officially hating Harly Davidsons).
The anniversary was much worse.
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The anniversary was much worse.
Yeah I remember that, I wasn't living down here (wasn't in college at the time), but I remember coming down here to watch some of it. There were just 2 lines at all times for this parade, and back then it was just PACKED throughout the whole street for that one.
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So, talk about this thread going to Hell in a handbasket...
You guys sound like a bunch of babies.
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Another sweep heading into a 4 game home series against philli. We'll have the pitching advantage all 4 games.
Another dominating series by the Brewers this weekend. The combined scores for our sweep was 21-4. We outhit them 33-15. 4 homeruns in a 3 game series isn't normally great, but in that park it is, being 385 feet to just towards center of the corners. We continue to see that CC Sabathia is the most dominating pitcher in the MLB since coming to Milwaukee, as he should have had a no hitter today (the Pirate's only hit was clearly an error). That makes him 9-0 with SIX complete games in 11 outings with the Brewers, with an ERA of under 1.50. Good to see that we have made up a half game since the terrible showing in the Cubs series rather than fold and fallen further behind. Also good to see a 20-7 August, the month that last year we went 9-18 in, falling out of the division lead.
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Another dominating series by the Brewers this weekend. The combined scores for our sweep was 21-4. We outhit them 33-15. 4 homeruns in a 3 game series isn't normally great, but in that park it is, being 385 feet to just towards center of the corners. We continue to see that CC Sabathia is the most dominating pitcher in the MLB since coming to Milwaukee, as he should have had a no hitter today (the Pirate's only hit was clearly an error). That makes him 9-0 with SIX complete games in 11 outings with the Brewers, with an ERA of under 1.50. Good to see that we have made up a half game since the terrible showing in the Cubs series rather than fold and fallen further behind. Also good to see a 20-7 August, the month that last year we went 9-18 in, falling out of the division lead.
you know all this does was jinx the Brewers... we were quiet when the Brewers caught up to the Cubs, started talking, and then the Cubs swept us... then we went dormant, and the Brewers started catching again. Fantastic. ;D way to go.
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Another dominating series by the Brewers this weekend. The combined scores for our sweep was 21-4. We outhit them 33-15. 4 homeruns in a 3 game series isn't normally great, but in that park it is, being 385 feet to just towards center of the corners. We continue to see that CC Sabathia is the most dominating pitcher in the MLB since coming to Milwaukee, as he should have had a no hitter today (the Pirate's only hit was clearly an error). That makes him 9-0 with SIX complete games in 11 outings with the Brewers, with an ERA of under 1.50. Good to see that we have made up a half game since the terrible showing in the Cubs series rather than fold and fallen further behind. Also good to see a 20-7 August, the month that last year we went 9-18 in, falling out of the division lead.
Speaking of CC pitching another complete game... what was the point? I don't understand why Yost trotted him back out there, he has logged so many innings this year (its around 220 now) why throw him out there for another one when you have a 7 run lead? Granted he had a 1 hitter going but still, he threw over 100 pitches already at that point and had already lost the no hitter so why put the strain of another inning on his arm? It just doesn't make sense, this is the 2nd time that I can remember that this has happened in the last couple CC starts, the last time he ended up with 130 pitches!
Now I am a Cubs fan but I would most certainly say the same thing if Pinella went parading Harden, Dempster, Zambrano, Lilly etc out the for another inning with a sizeable lead in the 9th, it just doesn't make sense to put the added strain on the arm. Now I understand that CC is not in the Brewers future but it really is not fair to him to put his career at risk. As a Cubs fan Ive seen injuries as a result of overuse (Read Wood and Prior) and I just don't see the point in having him finish the game. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, Ive talked to MULTIPLE Brewer fans who feel the same way, they just hope it doesn't affect his stuff come October. I just wanted to throw this out there and see other peoples opinions.
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Speaking of CC pitching another complete game... what was the point? I don't understand why Yost trotted him back out there, he has logged so many innings this year (its around 220 now) why throw him out there for another one when you have a 7 run lead? Granted he had a 1 hitter going but still, he threw over 100 pitches already at that point and had already lost the no hitter so why put the strain of another inning on his arm? It just doesn't make sense, this is the 2nd time that I can remember that this has happened in the last couple CC starts, the last time he ended up with 130 pitches!
Now I am a Cubs fan but I would most certainly say the same thing if Pinella went parading Harden, Dempster, Zambrano, Lilly etc out the for another inning with a sizeable lead in the 9th, it just doesn't make sense to put the added strain on the arm. Now I understand that CC is not in the Brewers future but it really is not fair to him to put his career at risk. As a Cubs fan Ive seen injuries as a result of overuse (Read Wood and Prior) and I just don't see the point in having him finish the game. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way, Ive talked to MULTIPLE Brewer fans who feel the same way, they just hope it doesn't affect his stuff come October. I just wanted to throw this out there and see other peoples opinions.
I would agree except in this instance. Today he had what is widely believed to be a no hitter, but was screwed by the official scorer. With only 1 hit given up, and that being a very questionable call, I think you have to send him out for the 9th.
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The Brewers are now 39-32 on the road, the best road record in the National League.
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I was just at Lucas Oil Stadium for a business trip...awesome place esp. when you have an all access pass during the game!!!
u mean that giant home depot in Indy now??
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i would more go with a giant mall with a 100 yrds of grass!
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(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/Untitled-2.jpg)
I haven't seen this in a while!
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I haven't seen this in a while!
Cubs are playing really well today too...
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Alright prediction time for the rest of the season for Cubs and Brewers:
Brewers
2 at home vs. Mets: 1-1
4 at home vs. Padres: 3-1
3 at home vs. Reds: 3-0
4 away vs. Phillies: 1-3
3 away vs. Cubs: 1-2
3 away vs. Reds: 2-1
3 at home vs. Pirates: 3-0
3 at home vs. Cubs: 2-1
16-9 over the last 25 games for the Brewers...it'll probably end up being more like 14-11 but I think we're much better than the Reds, Pirates, and Padres, so I'd like to see 16-9.
Cubs
2 at home vs. Astros: 1-1 (Zambrano's missing his start tomorrow, correct? If he's pitching then I'll change it to 2-0)
3 away vs. Reds: 2-1
3 away vs. Cardinals: 1-2
3 away vs. Houston: 2-1
3 at home vs. Milwaukee: 2-1
3 at home vs. Cardinals: 2-1
4 away vs. Mets: 1-3
3 away vs. Brewers: 1-2
12-12 over the last 25 games for the Cubs. I think it'll probably be 13-11 or even 14-10 but I don't know which game series to change (could be one of many), so I'll stick to 12-12.
This would make the Brewers 96-66 and the Cubs 97-65. More realistically I think the Cubs will win the division by about 3 games and I think the Brewers will win the Wild Card.
Being at the game today I can't decide if I think the Brewers will actually come and perform in the playoffs or not. They're truly a completely streaky team when it comes to offense. It's ridiculous how little of an approach our players (outside of Braun, Hardy, and Hart) go up to the plate with. We have the most useless outs in the world...SO many strikeouts. When somebody leads off an inning with a double, he should not be standing on 2nd when the inning is over, and that seems to happen ALL the time with the Brewers. However, when their offense is hot it's REALLY hot, so the bats could show up and they could make a run in the playoffs. The thing that could save them in the playoffs if the offense is cold is pitching, and our starters have been lights out since the break (even the bullpen has been for the most part). So quite honestly I could see us getting to the World Series and losing (I think if we were to play the Red Sox or the Angels we'd get killed in it, if the Rays or White Sox/Twins make it I could see us winning it all but a lot of things would have to go right, and I could see us getting swept by the Mets or Phillies in the first round if we don't show up, so we'll see what happens. I could see the Cubs doing the same thing, but moreso just that they might catch the wrong team at the wrong time (D-Backs pitching, maybe the Brewers or Phillies/Mets are hot)...they're pretty consistent though. Should be fun.
Anybody else care to play?
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I dont care to play the guessing game when it comes to records, but i would like to know your thoughts on what is worse?
Facing Webb, Haren, Johnson or a phillies/mets offensive that can be really good!
The prob. is both are sketchy. Look at webb, he has been shelled the past 2 games.
Also, the phillies and mets have their own probs with offense/bullpens.
Your thoughts on the tougher series...
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I dont care to play the guessing game when it comes to records, but i would like to know your thoughts on what is worse?
Facing Webb, Haren, Johnson or a phillies/mets offensive that can be really good!
The prob. is both are sketchy. Look at webb, he has been shelled the past 2 games.
Also, the phillies and mets have their own probs with offense/bullpens.
Your thoughts on the tougher series...
I personally think the 3 best teams in the NL are the Cubs Brewers and Cards. With that said, I think in the Brewers case (since Im a Crew fan), I would rather face the Diamondbacks instead of the Mets and Phillies. The Brewers can keep up with the Diamondbacks in the pitching/low scoring games. However I have felt if it got into a slugfest with a Phillies or the Mets, Brewers won't win, their offenses are too good.
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I haven't seen the numbers, but have the diamondbacks scored more consistently since getting Dunn? And if they make the playoffs, will burns be back?
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I haven't seen the numbers, but have the diamondbacks scored more consistently since getting Dunn? And if they make the playoffs, will burns be back?
I don't think their offensive numbers have improved since then, but I'm not positive. I'm not sure about Byrnes. Personally I would rather face the Mets/Phillies in a 5 game series because the pitchers that the Diamondbacks would throw out there would be Webb, Haren, Johnson, Webb, and Haren and that is not fun in any way whatsoever, especially considering Johnson is one of the best post-season pitchers of all time. The Phillies and Mets can both swing hot bats, but both the Brewers (especially recently) and the Cubs have enough starting pitching to minimize that, and both the Mets and Phillies have even worse bullpens than the Brewers have, which is saying something. Neither of those 2 team's starting pitchers really scare me that much either, and pitching is the key in the playoffs.
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A couple of things to remember about Sabathia: He has built his NL record largely against bums. He has not faced the Mets or Phillies yet, and his one start against the Cubs he allowed nine hits in six-plus.
Two, he CAN wear down. Game 5 against Boston in the ALCS last year, with a chance to pitch Cleveland into the Series, he was awful.
Not saying he won't be great in the playoffs, but he's hardly a guarantee. Mets and Phils both pose problems, but if I'm the Brewers (or Cubs) I'd rather face the Mets. Their bullpenb is flat-out awful, a collection of Gagnes.
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A couple of things to remember about Sabathia: He has built his NL record largely against bums. He has not faced the Mets or Phillies yet, and his one start against the Cubs he allowed nine hits in six-plus.
Two, he CAN wear down. Game 5 against Boston in the ALCS last year, with a chance to pitch Cleveland into the Series, he was awful.
Not saying he won't be great in the playoffs, but he's hardly a guarantee. Mets and Phils both pose problems, but if I'm the Brewers (or Cubs) I'd rather face the Mets. Their bullpenb is flat-out awful, a collection of Gagnes.
but if they can some how get wagner back...then their bullpen problems seem to be gone instantly!
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I have a problem with this CC no-hitter thing. No way should he get it. He didn't have to face the pressure in the late innings of carrying a one-hitter.
Bad calls (umps or scorers) happen all the time. In 2004, Zambrano had a no-hitter with 2-outs in the bottom of the 8th in Arizona when a fill in ump from the minors blew a call at first base ending the no-hitter. In 1998, Kerry Wood's 20K game was a one-hitter where the one hit was a infield single which could have been ruled an error. There was no protest. If CC wanted a no-hitter maybe he should have made the play so the scorer wouldn't be in a position to mess up.
I think if the Brewers want to protest, they should do what happens when MLB agrees with a protest. Resume the game from the point of that play (see the George Brett appealed game). For the Brewers, I believe it was 1-0 in the 5th. : )
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I have a problem with this CC no-hitter thing. No way should he get it. He didn't have to face the pressure in the late innings of carrying a one-hitter.
Bad calls (umps or scorers) happen all the time. In 2004, Zambrano had a no-hitter with 2-outs in the bottom of the 8th in Arizona when a fill in ump from the minors blew a call at first base ending the no-hitter. In 1998, Kerry Wood's 20K game was a one-hitter where the one hit was a infield single which could have been ruled an error. There was no protest. If CC wanted a no-hitter maybe he should have made the play so the scorer wouldn't be in a position to mess up.
I think if the Brewers want to protest, they should do what happens when MLB agrees with a protest. Resume the game from the point of that play (see the George Brett appealed game). For the Brewers, I believe it was 1-0 in the 5th. : )
I understand the argument that he didn't have to face with the pressure of having a no hitter, but don't you think there was still some extra pressure on him? Don't you think that he knew that play was an error and that there was still a possibility that the scorer would watch replays and change it to an error instead of a hit? I know it isn't even close to the same pressure as actually having the no hitter, but I'd bet he was still putting some pressure on himself to not give up a hit after that point.
Zambrano had a no hitter through 7 1/3, gave up a hit, and then gave up 2 more hits. Maybe if he hadn't given up those 2 hits it'd be a similar situation, but he did, and it's not. You say the Wood hit COULD have been called an error, but there is only one person in the world who would have called the hit against Sabathia a hit, and that was the scorer. If you haven't seen the replays, the batter was about 1/3 of the way down the line (definitely not more than 1/2) when CC was about to field that grounder. That was an error in every sense of the word, and to call it a hit that quickly is ridiculous.
Why does everything have to be based off of the Cubs perspective? So because Cubs pitchers have been close to no hitters then in other situations there should be no appeal because the Cubs didn't get the calls going there way? There are different situations, and this was clearly an error without question. Anybody who argues otherwise is clearly biased or defending themselves (the scorer) for the error in judgement they clearly made.
Not all appeals are dealt with by starting off where the appeal was left off at. Again, different situations are actually handled in different ways, believe it or not. The Brewers have appealed a hit earlier in the year and it was overturned to an error without replaying the game where the hit occurred.
You know that if Zambrano or Harden was in this situation 99% of Cubs fans would be SCREAMING for it to get overturned into a no hitter.
Do I think the call will get overturned? No. Do I think it SHOULD get overturned? I don't know, because there have been hits changed to errors through appeals earlier (it's already happened once for the Brewers), but it's never happened for a no hit question.
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You know that if Zambrano or Harden was in this situation 99% of Cubs fans would be SCREAMING for it to get overturned into a no hitter.
and when it does you know you will be saying: No way should it be overturned. Which would be a perfectly reasonable response. Here's hoping we can have that arguement during late october.
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Why does everything have to be based off of the Cubs perspective? So because Cubs pitchers have been close to no hitters then in other situations there should be no appeal because the Cubs didn't get the calls going there way?
I am sure similar things have happened to all MLB teams but since I am a Cubs fan and primarily watch Cubs games the only examples I can give are Cubs examples.
The Kerry Wood example is no different than CC. Kerry gave up one hit that could have been called an error. I believe the scorer was right in giving the Astros the hit, however, many feel it easily could have been an error. The Cubs did not protest the call.
My mistake on the Zambrano example. I was off by one out.
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As a Brewer's fan, it was an error... plain and simple.
BUT, you can't go back and just give him the no no. I love CC and the brewers, but it would just feel cheap.
I think CC probably sees it the same way. Suck it up, its just a stat, and the important thing is that he got the W.
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As a Brewer's fan, it was an error... plain and simple.
BUT, you can't go back and just give him the no no. I love CC and the brewers, but it would just feel cheap.
I think CC probably sees it the same way. Suck it up, its just a stat, and the important thing is that he got the W.
Well said! What is more important the W or a single man on the team?
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I don't think the Brewers are helping things by continually whining about it. Why are they fighting to hard for a guy who already has his bags packed? The Yankees are going to give Sabathia $22 million. See ya.
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I don't think the Brewers are helping things by continually whining about it. Why are they fighting to hard for a guy who already has his bags packed? The Yankees are going to give Sabathia $22 million. See ya.
I'm pretty sure nobody in Milwaukee is realistically expecting CC to resign with the Brewers, so I'm not sure the point of this post. Does it really matter whether or not he'll be playing with the Brewers next year? He currently plays for the Brewers and had a 1 hitter that was clearly an error, so they want him to have the no-hitter. If he wins a World Series MVP (don't freak out, I'm just making an example...I realize it's not likely, but also not impossible) does that make it for the Yankees because he will probably be a Yankee next year, or does it make it for the Brewers, since that's the team he plays for?
Why not appeal it? What is there to lose? Best case scenario, they overturn the call and rule it an error, resulting in a no-hitter for CC, the first for the MILWAUKEE BREWERS (NOT the New York Yankees) since 1987. Worst case scenario, the ruling stands as a hit and it is still a 1 hitter and outstanding performance.
Yes, the most important thing was getting the win, and we got that whether or not the call is overturned, so why not go for the no-hitter as well? It would be cool to have it as a no hitter with the win.
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Why not appeal it? What is there to lose? Best case scenario, they overturn the call and rule it an error, resulting in a no-hitter for CC, the first for the MILWAUKEE BREWERS (NOT the New York Yankees) since 1987. Worst case scenario, the ruling stands as a hit and it is still a 1 hitter and outstanding performance.
If it's appealed the game needs to be replayed from the inning in question.
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If it's appealed the game needs to be replayed from the inning in question.
A ruling change from a hit to an error does not require the game to be replayed from that point. In fact, it happens every once in awhile in the majors (prolly 3 - 5 times a year) you just generally don't hear about them because they are very minute. The only time a game needs to be replayed when an appeal is successful is if the change affected the outcome of the game (ie-one team got 4 outs in an inning, a team batted out of order, the george brett situation..etc). As this appeal would have no change in the outcome of the game, no replay is necessary.
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A ruling change from a hit to an error does not require the game to be replayed from that point. In fact, it happens every once in awhile in the majors (prolly 3 - 5 times a year) you just generally don't hear about them because they are very minute. The only time a game needs to be replayed when an appeal is successful is if the change affected the outcome of the game (ie-one team got 4 outs in an inning, a team batted out of order, the george brett situation..etc). As this appeal would have no change in the outcome of the game, no replay is necessary.
Thank you for the clarification. TT34 steered me in the wrong direction. Typical Dumb Cubs Fan.
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if CC's happy, why not? he can have his contract plus gagne's and cameron's. Throw in a chunk of Sheeter's as well and that's enough money to make him think about staying at least. Personally I'd rather see him stay than sheets, he's a lefty, can hit, and is less injury prone.
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if CC's happy, why not? he can have his contract plus gagne's and cameron's. Throw in a chunk of Sheeter's as well and that's enough money to make him think about staying at least. Personally I'd rather see him stay than sheets, he's a lefty, can hit, and is less injury prone.
I see what you're saying and I hear he does love Milwaukee, but it is well known that his first choice would be to go out to the west coast, especially for an NL team. Then no matter how much we can throw at him, the Yankees and others will be able to offer him far and away more. I would definitely love to have him over Sheets as well, he's also younger. I used to think that we had a slim chance at resigning him, but the more I hear the less likely I think it is. I think it's still more likely that we resign him than Sheets (although with how he's pitched in the 2nd half the competition to get him has gone down, but I still think he wants out of Milwaukee), but I highly doubt we get him. I don't think we can offer him over $100 million like the Yankees will. Unless his money is used to resign CC, I hope we pick up Cameron's club option. He strikes out a lot but he is SO good defensively and has 24 home runs after missing 25 games to start the year.
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There is no no-no for CC. I am fine with that decision, because the remainder of the game could've played out differently had the hit been called an error, so I understand how they can pretty much not change that scoring at this point. The one thing that is sort of upsetting is that the official scorer for the Pirates continues to say things that are CLEARLY untrue about the play. This quote is just outrageous:
"The way the ball came off the bat, it was spinning, and it went to the left of the mound with a left-handed pitcher going to get it. It's a difficult play," Webb said at the time. "The definition requires standard effort, and that would have taken more than an ordinary effort. The runner was well down the line."
Here's a video of the play. The ball is not "spinning," it is rolling STRAIGHT FORWARD in the same direction it began rolling off the bat. There is a BIG difference between spinning and rolling and that ball is clearly just rolling straight. A left handed pitcher falls to the left of the mound, so he was already naturally going towards the ball off the bat. All he has to do is pick it up, take one open-up step and open up his chest to make that throw to first, not "spin all the way around" like he originally said (that would mean he makes a 360 degree turn, throwing the ball into the 3rd base dugout). That was not a difficult play, and any player makes that play, meaning it would take an ordinary effort, not more than an ordinary runner. And the part that gets me MOST is that he says "The runner was well down the line." Really?! Honestly?! Define well down the line, please. When CC began to stand up the runner was LESS than half way down the line, and it was NOT a fast runner on the base-path. Had CC fielded the ball in his glove he would have made the play by at least two steps. The video that shows the play and stops it when he touches the ball shows it CLEARLY that he is not even where the 2nd line on the baseline begins. Here is a look at the play:
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?categoryId=2521705
Again, I'm not upset about not changing the call because I understand it really wouldn't be right to change it since it involved a no-hitter, but the fact that this guy is blatantly lying to cover up for his clear mistake is pretty lame.
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Despite the Brewers' protests, the play in question is routinely called a hit and fielders often get angry when they are called for errors on easier plays. The Associated Press polled eight writers who have reported on the majors for 10 years or more, and six would have called it a hit.
It obviously wasnt that bad of a call. Heres the link
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=280831123
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Unless his money is used to resign CC, I hope we pick up Cameron's club option. He strikes out a lot but he is SO good defensively and has 24 home runs after missing 25 games to start the year.
Cameron's currently 6th in the NL in AB per Home Run (15 AB/HR) although he doesn't have the plate appearances to qualify for batting awards. His slugging percentage and OPS are also higher than Prince's. He's been pretty good this year for us.
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Thank you for the clarification. TT34 steered me in the wrong direction. Typical Dumb Cubs Fan.
I got it from Len Kasper.
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It obviously wasnt that bad of a call. Heres the link
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=280831123
Just out of curiosity, did you watch the replays that were in that clip? And did you see the one they showed on Sportscenter that night where they paused it when Sabathia starts to stand up? It wouldn't have even been close. Steve Phillips makes it pretty clear that it was a clear error.
And yeah, I love Cameron. Prince has been really frustrating this year. It seems like he's pressing as a result of Braun signing his long-term contract. Every time Braun does something big he follows it up with a strike out. He also has been terrible in clutch situations this year.
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I did see the play and I think in retrospect it was an errorr. Im just saying that the official scorer is NOT the only person on the planet who would have ruled it a hit. If it wasnt for the no-hitter no one would have thought anything of it being ruled a hit.
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I did see the play and I think in retrospect it was an errorr. Im just saying that the official scorer is NOT the only person on the planet who would have ruled it a hit. If it wasnt for the no-hitter no one would have thought anything of it being ruled a hit.
I think the scorer IS the only person on the planet who would rule it a hit without any hesitation whatsoever, especially when a no-hitter is going on, when scorers tend to call a play an error initially and then change it to a hit after watching replays if it deserved to be a hit. I also think he is the only person on the planet that would try to argue that the ball was spinning when Sabathia made the play, argue that by being lefty and the ball being to the left it makes it harder for him to make the play, that it would have been an extraordinary play if he had made the play, and MOST RIDICULOUSLY that the baserunner was "well down the line," because if you just watch the replay, EVEN IN REAL-TIME MOTION, it is CLEAR that the baserunner is NOWHERE NEAR "well down the line" when Sabathia would have been making the throw had he fielded the ball correctly.
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A lefty generally falls a little toward 3rd on a pitch while a righty falls to 1st. Other than that, it is a harder play for a lefty IMO. A lefty's body would most likely be pointed between the dugout and 3rd. They have to turn about 180 degrees or possibly more to make the throw. A righty would be pointed between the dugout and home. They'd have to turn half as much.
I'm not saying it's a hit or an error, but the dude's not entirely wrong.
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A lefty generally falls a little toward 3rd on a pitch while a righty falls to 1st. Other than that, it is a harder play for a lefty IMO. A lefty's body would most likely be pointed between the dugout and 3rd. They have to turn about 180 degrees or possibly more to make the throw. A righty would be pointed between the dugout and home. They'd have to turn half as much.
I'm not saying it's a hit or an error, but the dude's not entirely wrong.
I would argue the other way. I think that makes him have to turn even less, because he can just open with the right foot and turn his chest. A righty has to plant on his right and turn all the way around to the left.
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I would argue the other way. I think that makes him have to turn even less, because he can just open with the right foot and turn his chest. A righty has to plant on his right and turn all the way around to the left.
It is definitely a tougher play for a lefty than a righty. A right-hander is set to make the throw when he gets the ball in that position. All he has to do is plant his right foot and throw. A left-hander has to spin 180 degrees, plant, and then throw.
I think it was the right thing for the Brewers to appeal it to try and get CC the no-hitter, but its not a big deal that they didn't get it.
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right, it shouldn't have been a big deal that they didn't get the call. But Yost whined about it afterwards, which is OK (heat of the moment). The problem I have with the whining came Monday, when then the Brewers GM says the whole scoring system has to be overturned. What??? Let it go. It makes the organization sound like a bunch of George Steinbrenners.
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The problem I have with the whining came Monday, when then the Brewers GM says the whole scoring system has to be overturned. What??? Let it go. It makes the organization sound like a bunch of George Steinbrenners.
They are looking for a reason to have another reason to have a patch on their jerseys.
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They are looking for a reason to have another reason to have a patch on their jerseys.
?
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With the news today that Big Z has rotator cuff tedinitis and Lou saying Harden is experiencing some "discomfort" what are Cubs fans feeling? If these injuries aren't long term and only cause a few missed starts, it prolly won't matter much.
Obviously the Cubs would have to have a historic collapse to not make the playoffs, but if one or both of these guys ends up missing significant time, possibly even into the playoffs, can the Cubs rely on Dempster (having a huge contract year) and some combination of the others (Lily, Marquis, Marshall) to fill out the playoff rotation?
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They can count on them to fill out the rotation and probable lose in the first round if Harden and Zambrano both can't pitch. But, I think they'll both be available for the playoffs with Zambrano, Dempster, and Hardin going 1, 2, 3.
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Zambrano has tendinitis and considering rest has always helped Harden (never had a structural problem) I'd be willing to venture that's what Harden has as well. At this point of the season I'm sure there are quite a few pitchers in the bigs with tendinitis. Hell I'm sure some of you out there get some tendinitis in your shoulder every now and then and you don't pitch every five days.
Luckily with the lead we have, the Cubs are able to rest these guys up and get them healthy for the postseason. If they can't start in the postseason thats a different story but there is nothing to indicate they won't. The best thing for tendinitis is an anti-inflamatory and rest. And that's exactly what they will get.
Do I wish they didn't have tendinitis and were still pitching? Of course. But resting these guys up for the next few weeks isn't the worst thing in the world either.
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Is it still a "pipe dream" for CC to win the Cy Young this year? Webb has given up 6, 6, and 7 earned runs in his last 3 starts, all loses. At this moment I would think CC leads the Cy Young race, with an ERA under 1.50 and a 9-0 record.
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I hope he wins it, that will help with his negotiations with the Yankee's this summer.
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Webb has shat a brick the last month...but say CC looses 2 or 3 starts and has 1 or 2 no decisions? would you still consider him cy young then?
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Like I said before Tim Lincecum is the NL Cy Young. Put him on any other team and he has 19-20 wins. His stuff is disgusting, much better than Z, CC, Harden or Sheets.
If he gets snubbed for the fat one, he will truly be getting robbed.
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Like I said before Tim Lincecum is the NL Cy Young. Put him on any other team and he has 19-20 wins. His stuff is disgusting, much better than Z, CC, Harden or Sheets.
If he gets snubbed for the fat one, he will truly be getting robbed.
Since coming to the NL CC has been the best dominating pitcher in baseball. He may single handedly put the Brewers into the playoffs for the first time in 26 years. If he doesn't lose a single game in the NL, and especially if he keeps an ERA under 1.50, there is no way he doesn't win the NL Cy Young, and no way he doesn't deserve it. Even if you look at the whole season his record was bad with a 6-8 record in Cleveland, but he had an ERA of under 3.5 and was leading the MLB in strikeouts and innings pitched. His record was bad because in 11 of his 18 starts the Indians scored 2 or less runs.
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His record was bad because in 11 of his 18 starts the Indians scored 2 or less runs.
Tim Lincecum?
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Ummmm Mike Cameron just said on Brewers Live the pressure is on the rest of the league because everyone is chasing them?
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Ummmm Mike Cameron just said on Brewers Live the pressure is on the rest of the league because everyone is chasing them?
Ummm...yeah, must be a side effect of the cream and or clear
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Ummmm Mike Cameron just said on Brewers Live the pressure is on the rest of the league because everyone is chasing them?
For the wild card?
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I am a Brewers fan, but...
Why the heck is Rickie Weeks not permanently condemned to the bench?
*sigh*
Two innings (eighth and ninth) = Two errors = Three possible outs
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That's the only question about Ned you have? I have about a million questions, one of which is that. Why would Gagne ever pitch? Why would Brad Nelson pinch hit with Gamel, Escobar, Kapler, etc. on the bench? Why would Gwynn Jr. not pinch run instead of Escobar?
Also, can the Brewers ever make a good out (move the runner over instead of striking out, etc.)? If we can't produce a few runs here and there and if our bullpen doesn't pull it together we'll be lucky to even make the playoffs at all, let alone do anything in them.
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Why would Gwynn Jr. not pinch run instead of Escobar?
So he could pinch run for Prince in the 10th.
I agree with you though.
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That's the only question about Ned you have? I have about a million questions, one of which is that. Why would Gagne ever pitch? Why would Brad Nelson pinch hit with Gamel, Escobar, Kapler, etc. on the bench? Why would Gwynn Jr. not pinch run instead of Escobar?
Also, can the Brewers ever make a good out (move the runner over instead of striking out, etc.)? If we can't produce a few runs here and there and if our bullpen doesn't pull it together we'll be lucky to even make the playoffs at all, let alone do anything in them.
+100
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someone close and lock every window higher than the second floor... I might jump.
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someone close and lock every window higher than the second floor... I might jump.
No kidding. We're looking to be the 2008 version of the 2007 Mets...not quite as big of a collapse, but still one that should never happen.
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No kidding
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Check out my signature.
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Check out my signature.
Never seen that card in a deck before... ;). But yup, the division is on lockdown...now if the Brewers hadn't been TERRIBLE for all of September it might be a different story...but of course not. By the way, Ned Yost doesn't look at the standings and only knows that the Wild Card is "very bunched up" but doesn't know who's behind them. Great manager...
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Are you kidding about Yost wadesworld?
You've never seen that card in the deck because the Brewers have never been looking at the magic number for the NL Central before.
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Are you kidding about Yost wadesworld?
You've never seen that card in the deck because the Brewers have never been looking at the magic number for the NL Central before.
Oh they do make 11 cards? Weird. And no, I'm not kidding.
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Just out of curiosity, why would the Cubs and Astros play in such a dump as Miller Park? I mean, that roof that keeps the bad weather out is so terrible and retractable roofs have gone down the dump, there are rust stains, etc. Such a bad park, why play in there unless the Brewers are playing? Why not play in somebody else's ballpark? I haven't seen 2 teams play in neither of the teams' park OTHER THAN Miller Park in the last 2 years, and this is twice now. WEIRD!
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They want to play at Miller Park because they know they can fill it with Cubs fans. It has nothing to do with stadium quality. Just proximity.
I don't blame the Astros for vetoing Milwaukee but it is ridiculous that they are vetoing pretty much every other venue as well.
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My previous post was post 1000!
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They want to play at Miller Park because they know they can fill it with Cubs fans. It has nothing to do with stadium quality. Just proximity.
I don't blame the Astros for vetoing Milwaukee but it is ridiculous that they are vetoing pretty much every other venue as well.
And the explanation for when the Indians and Angels series moving there at the beginning of last year? I don't think any of those fan bases were going to fill the stands for that series.
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The question is...
If they were to play at miller park, and all the "great" baseball fans of milwaukee show up, who do they cheer for?
Do they cheer for the cubs, the team ahead of them, the team they hate sooo much?
Or do they cheer for astros, the team that looks like last years Rockies? One that is actually pretty close to catching them and an easy schedule (FYI coin flip vs brewers puts the astros at home in case of a tie.)
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I don't think stadium quality really plays into this situation. If it did, they wouldn't be discussing the Trop.
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I hope they play at miller park, that would be awesome. I will be at all 3 games without a doubt... what are the chances the Cubs sell out Miller Park it it happens ;)
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I hope they play at miller park, that would be awesome. I will be at all 3 games without a doubt... what are the chances the Cubs sell out Miller Park it it happens ;)
Very likely.
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And the explanation for when the Indians and Angels series moving there at the beginning of last year? I don't think any of those fan bases were going to fill the stands for that series.
What?
I completely understand if the Astros don't want to play in Milwaukee. But considering the Cubs are willing to play in Atlanta, Washington, Dallas, St. Louis (think it's suppose to rain here) it's about time the Astros pony up and go to a neutral site.
If not it's time for Bud Selig to force the issue. There is a precedence for this in 2004. The Cubs were suppose to play the Marlins in Florida but guess where it ended up? Wrigley. So the Astros should be happy that MLB isn't moving it to Wrigley (because of rain) and play the damn games already.
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http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/09/cubs-waiting-fo.html
I'm going to the game tomorrow night most likely. Brewers fans should be cheering for the Cubs to slow down the hot Astros...
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Agreed - my hatred for the Cubs may have to put on hold for two days in hopes that the Astros get swept.
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Ill be there. But the marquee game prices are kinda bs especially with less than 24 hour notice before the game. I also question the 105 start on monday.... It won't be easy for people to get off work on monday on such short notice
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I agree. If the Astros want the most money they can get (which seemed to be the most important thing to the them) they would make it a night game. You have to consider though they have to travel to Florida for a game on Tuesday.
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BEST. GAME. EVER.
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Agreed - my hatred for the Cubs may have to put on hold for two days in hopes that the Astros get swept.
Well congrats for cheering on a team as they throw a no hitter in miller park. I hear some other guy got close recently.
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I have probably been to 30+ games at Miller Park and that was the loudest I have ever heard it in there. Very cool experience...
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Congrats Cubs fans, enjoy it. Quite an accomplishment.
I'm just glad someone played good baseball at Miller Park in September.
And my spirit is now completely broken. Thank you Ned's Battlin Brewers.
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I had to watch it from home as I needed to leave milwaukee earlier in the day. What an awesome thing to watch even on television.
Looks like if all goes well, the cubs could have a playoff spot clinched here soon, along with the division...magic number for division sits at 7
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Crazy enviroment. I've been to big games before but I've never seen anything like it! One guy had a "Tres Ocho" sign for Zambrano. I liked it!
If you look closely in the bleacher you can see a pleased MarqPTM.
(http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v318/62/25/20300167/n20300167_34009749_9770.jpg)
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Way the Astros were the home team:
- They had last at bats
Ways the Cubs were the home team:
- They had the home clubhouse, dugout, and bullpen
- They sold Cubs gear
- They sold cheese fries in Cubs helmets
- The crowd was all Cubs fans
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In honor of last night's performance, I'm adding some of my favorite Carlos Zambrano photoshops. All photoshops were originally done by www.goatriders.org (http://www.goatriders.org)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee41/roblowe14/chuckvcarlos3.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee41/roblowe14/scarlos2.jpg)
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee41/roblowe14/carloszambranovcommunism.jpg)
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THE SKY IS FALLING
<--- Brewer's fan
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Yeah. I hate Goatriders.
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Don't forget Carlos' instructional videos. Hola Carlos!
http://www.youtube.com/v/NDZPN0mjaAA&hl=en&fs=1
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Yeah. I hate Goatriders.
NSBB is a bunch of guys living in their mom's basement.
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NSBB is a bunch of guys living in their mom's basement.
Agreed. I also dislike NSBB.
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Crazy enviroment. I've been to big games before but I've never seen anything like it! One guy had a "Tres Ocho" sign for Zambrano. I liked it!
If you look closely in the bleacher you can see a pleased MarqPTM.
(http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v318/62/25/20300167/n20300167_34009749_9770.jpg)
I think I see myself in the right field bleachers above the UWM sign. (Thank God I didn't realize that I was sitting above the UWM sign. That would have been the only negative about last night)
Being a Cubs and Packers fan, the only thing I can compare it to was the 1997 NFC Championship game against Carolina that I was lucky enough to attend. Most of the time I brush off the cliche that "the atmosphere was electric", but I can't describe the last two innings any differently.
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so, uh... anyone following today's game between the Astros and the Cubs? Lilly is doing fairly well through six...
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what, you mean the possible no hitter?
yes, yes I said it.
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what, you mean the possible no hitter?
yes, yes I said it.
uh huh, well thanks a ton.
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One hit in the last 18 innings isn't too shabby though. And that one hit was a single.
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The Packers won more games in the last week than the Brewers.
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The Packers won more games in the last week than the Brewers.
The Bears never do that...even after the Cubs' season is done.
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As a Packer fan you should know the Bears had at least two wins last year.
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As a Packer fan you should know the Bears had at least two wins last year.
...and that summarizes the difference between the Bears (and their fans) and the Packers (and their fans). Ask the Bears fans how they did and they'll say it was a good season, we beat the Packers. Ask the Packers fans how they did and they'll say we had a good season but a disappointing end to the season in the NFC Championship game.
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Right... the Bears had a down year last year but who's been to a Super Bowl more recently?
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Right... the Bears had a down year last year but who's been to a Super Bowl more recently?
Alright...who's won a Super Bowl more recently? They had a down year just once recently? I'd argue it's more accurate to say they had 1 up year 2 years ago than 1 down year last year.
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...and that summarizes the difference between the Bears (and their fans) and the Packers (and their fans). Ask the Bears fans how they did and they'll say it was a good season, we beat the Packers. Ask the Packers fans how they did and they'll say we had a good season but a disappointing end to the season in the NFC Championship game.
Woah woah woah. I don't follow football much but if you ask a Bears fan they will tell you we sucked ass last year and we will probably suck ass this year as well.
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Woah woah woah. I don't follow football much but if you ask a Bears fan they will tell you we sucked ass last year and we will probably suck ass this year as well.
Alright, fair enough, but you didn't tell me that. You told me what I think most Bears fans will tell me (at least if they know I'm a Packers fan).
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Let's keep this baseball related. A bears packers thread is needed.
Back to baseball. By what percentage will Brewers attendance drop after they fail to make the playoffs?
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Big Z's no-hitter is now available on iTunes for $1.99.
It can also be seen Friday night at 10:00 PM on WGN.
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I've changed my mind and deiced that cc should win the Cy young. Have you seen his numbers when he isn't playing the cubs? When he's pitching against teams other than the cubs he's absolutely unhitable. He's single handedly almost keeping the brewers in the wild card race and has a great chance of running his reccord to 11 and 0 when not playing the cubs. That's just incredible.
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Wood's game-clinching, 3-2 breaking ball, after Fielder had fouled off about 4 high heaters, was just filthy. Hats off to him and the Cubs on a nice win tonight.
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Really a heck of a ballgame tonight.
And it stung pretty bad... but at least I felt something.
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By what percentage will Brewers attendance drop after they fail to make the playoffs?
I know you're trying to say that we have bandwagon fans - but honestly, I think it really depends on what happens over the offseason. Let's say we pick up a manager with playoff experience (Valentine, Brenley, Leyland, etc) and we grab a LH lead-off hitter and maybe a #2 or #3 starter...I think the expectations will be just as big as they were this year and the attendance will not drop as dramatically as you think.
On the other hand, if Sheeter leaves, CC leaves (given) and the Brewers don't spend any money and grab a minor league hack manager - I agree...attendance will drop dramatically.
BTW - Woods last pitch last night was absolutely FILTHY. Fielder was caught with his pants down looking for the 98 MPH heater...what he got instead was a mouth full of Uncle Charley. Wow. Fielder's homerun last night? Probably one of the longest I've seen hit out of Wrigley...
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I know you're trying to say that we have bandwagon fans - but honestly, I think it really depends on what happens over the offseason. Let's say we pick up a manager with playoff experience (Valentine, Brenley, Leyland, etc) and we grab a LH lead-off hitter and maybe a #2 or #3 starter...I think the expectations will be just as big as they were this year and the attendance will not drop as dramatically as you think.
On the other hand, if Sheeter leaves, CC leaves (given) and the Brewers don't spend any money and grab a minor league hack manager - I agree...attendance will drop dramatically.
BTW - Woods last pitch last night was absolutely FILTHY. Fielder was caught with his pants down looking for the 98 MPH heater...what he got instead was a mouth full of Uncle Charley. Wow. Fielder's homerun last night? Probably one of the longest I've seen hit out of Wrigley...
Great points, but bandwagon fans aren't into managers and players. Just winning. Especially if a couple jersey players are leaving next year.
I assume you've never seen Glenallen Hill's BOMB?
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Great points, but bandwagon fans aren't into managers and players. Just winning. Especially if a couple jersey players are leaving next year.
I assume you've never seen Glenallen Hill's BOMB?
Agreed...IF (and that's a BIG if) the Brewers spend money this offseason, it has to produce wins for the fans to come out to the park past May.
Haven't seen GAH's bomb...where did he hit it?
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3017957919029122909
Steve Woodard never had a chance. I'm also this is the exact moment Hank White decided he really wanted to leave the Brewers for the Cubs.
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BTW - Woods last pitch last night was absolutely FILTHY. Fielder was caught with his pants down looking for the 98 MPH heater...what he got instead was a mouth full of Uncle Charley. Wow. Fielder's homerun last night? Probably one of the longest I've seen hit out of Wrigley...
I think the longest i saw was sosa's. It went over waveland and about 5 or 6 car lengths down some side street i can't remember. There was gold spray paint marking the spot it was crazy to stand on it and see how far from wrigley it was.
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I know you're trying to say that we have bandwagon fans - but honestly, I think it really depends on what happens over the offseason. Let's say we pick up a manager with playoff experience (Valentine, Brenley, Leyland, etc) and we grab a LH lead-off hitter and maybe a #2 or #3 starter...I think the expectations will be just as big as they were this year and the attendance will not drop as dramatically as you think.
Valentine is committed to Japanesse baseball and has turned down requests to return because he likes the way the game is played in Japan better.
Brenley just signed a 6-year deal with WGN.
Leyland doesn't have much time left if you know what I mean.
But hey, Walt Jocketty in Cinci is trying to get the Reds to eat eat Dusty Baker's contract and release him. Next stop Milwaukee!
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Valentine is committed to Japanesse baseball and has turned down requests to return because he likes the way the game is played in Japan better.
Brenley just signed a 6-year deal with WGN.
Leyland doesn't have much time left if you know what I mean.
But hey, Walt Jocketty in Cinci is trying to get the Reds to eat eat Dusty Baker's contract and release him. Next stop Milwaukee!
I think I hear Manny Parra's arm screaming.
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Valentine
Brenley
Leyland
I hope you realize that I was just coming up with examples of guys off the top of my head - I'm not pushing strongly for any of them. That being said, contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on nowadays, so I wouldn't take Brenley out of the equation just because he has a 6 year deal.
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I think the longest i saw was sosa's. It went over waveland and about 5 or 6 car lengths down some side street i can't remember. There was gold spray paint marking the spot it was crazy to stand on it and see how far from wrigley it was.
Kenmore was the street. That was also a huge jack. I have looked for the spot, but never located it. I think it's generally parked over.
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that spot is still marked by a circled x on Kenmore....
What a huge win today....4 runs in the bottom of the 9th to tie it....including Sotos's 3-run bomb...unreal!
I love watching Ryan Braun play LF against the Cubs. Great base running by the Brewers also.
Magic Number = 2.
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that spot is still marked by a circled x on Kenmore....
What a huge win today....4 runs in the bottom of the 9th to tie it....including Sotos's 3-run bomb...unreal!
I love watching Ryan Braun play LF against the Cubs. Great base running by the Brewers also.
Magic Number = 2.
yah watching Ryan Braun play LF is almost as good as watching Alfonsio Soriano play LF...
Ryan Braun at one time did lead the NL in outfield assists.
Such a pitiful game today. Stick a fork in the Brewers, they're done.
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I don't get what you guys are talking about, ryan braun doesn't have 1 error this year!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA
Its a shame when you don't touch a ball its not an error, cause braun would have many!
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I don't get what you guys are talking about, ryan braun doesn't have 1 error this year!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA
Its a shame when you don't touch a ball its not an error, cause braun would have many!
again... Soriano is just as laughable.
I understand, Braun isn't the best fielder in the world. But it isn't like the Cubs are starting 3 gold gloves in the outfield. Well Edmunds, but he is aging.
Although todays game makes me sick.
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As bad as Soriano is in left I would take his defense over Braun anyday. At least when Soriano misses he knocks the ball down. Braun just misses completly as seen in his 0 errors.
Fukudome is a quality defensive outfielder. Jim Edmonds while not the Edmonds of old can still go get them. Reed Johnson has shown great defense all year as well.
SPORTSCENTER TOP 10
2) Soto's HR ties it
1) Lee's single wins it
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Soriano has one of the most accurate OF arms in baseball. Watching Braun in LF against the Cubs...yesterday and in the sweep in Milwaukee...has been fun.
Let's clinch the Central today!
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Let's clinch the Central today!
Pitiful game yesterday. Honestly, I can't believe Sveum didn't have someone up in the pen with 2 runners on and Soto at the plate. How hard is it to see that your closer just doesn't have it that day? The first two outs were rockets!
Sigh...3 series left. Let's at least show some pride on the field and make the Mets work for the Wild Card.
As for the Cubs - a sweep of the Mets would be REALLY, REALLY nice... :)
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As for the Cubs - a sweep of the Mets would be REALLY, REALLY nice... :)
The Mets series is being used to rest starters.
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The Mets series is being used to rest starters.
which will most likely give the mets the wildcard and knock the Crew right out of it.
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which will most likely give the mets the wildcard and knock the Crew right out of it.
Excellent
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how does this effect who we are playing in the first round? If the wc comes from a different division than we play them right?
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how does this effect who we are playing in the first round? If the wc comes from a different division than we play them right?
Correct Rawdogger. Mets or Phils look to be our match up.
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I'd prefer to play the Mets as the Wild Card team instead of the Phillies as the Wild Card team. So hopefully we can still take a few from the Mets even while resting our starters.
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Cubs clinch. Brewers fall 2 1/2 back.
Dreaming of a Mets matchup.
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I don't know about the rest of the Brewer fans here, but I'm all out of urine.
Go (insert team here)! Beat the Cubs! ;)
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I don't know about the rest of the Brewer fans here, but I'm all out of urine.
Go (insert team here)! Beat the Cubs! ;)
I've written off the Brewers for the year. On to football. With that, I take my leave from this thread. It's been fun.
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I'm bringing this back. Screw the Chubbies, screw Pinella, screw everything south of Kenosha.
Let's do this Brewers!
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I'm bringing this back. Screw the Chubbies, screw Pinella, screw everything south of Kenosha.
Let's do this Brewers!
Wow. Way to really diss Pleasant Prarie.
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And we cubs fans welcome back the biggest front running fans in baseball: The supporters of the milwaukee brewers.
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It's tough being front running fans, when we only do well every 12-15 years
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And we cubs fans welcome back the biggest front running fans in baseball: The supporters of the milwaukee brewers.
This coming from a guy who said he was "having a hard time caring about the bears season" 3 games in.
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Brewer fans crack me up. After beating the Cubs tonight all we heard is how much the Cubs suck and chants of scoreboard.
I don't know what makes it funnier. That 1) the Cubs have clinched a playoff spot 2) the Cubs have clinched home field advantage until the World Series 3) the Cubs are 6-1 at Miller Park now or 4) the Brewers haven't clinched a playoff spot yet.
The usual response was laughter or pointing to the Divison Champion shirt.
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Just out of curiosity, would Cubs fans prefer to have their everyday players and risk the small possibility of an injury that would take them out of the playoffs or would they rather have the starters rest and avoid the risk of injury?
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I sure everyone would prefer to rest all the starters but that wouldn't be fair to the Mets. The Cubs arent playing their starters to stick it to the Brewers. They are playing them to make it fair for the Mets. THe Marlins said they would play all of their starters as well.
In a way the Brewers did reap the benefits of the Cubs resting players, however, seeing as the Brewers scored there runs after Dempster was taken out early at 79 pitches through 5. Lou said before the game Dempster was on a 85 pitch limit.
The only game the Cubs put out an all AAA lineup for the most part was the last game of the Cardinal series which didn't mean anything.
If the Brewers clinch tomorrow, I'd assume both teams will have a half-assed roster Sunday. Lou said he would like to get Z an inning or two of work though.
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I sure everyone would prefer to rest all the starters but that wouldn't be fair to the Mets. The Cubs arent playing their starters to stick it to the Brewers. They are playing them to make it fair for the Mets. THe Marlins said they would play all of their starters as well.
In a way the Brewers did reap the benefits of the Cubs resting players, however, seeing as the Brewers scored there runs after Dempster was taken out early at 79 pitches through 5. Lou said before the game Dempster was on a 85 pitch limit.
The only game the Cubs put out an all AAA lineup for the most part was the last game of the Cardinal series which didn't mean anything.
If the Brewers clinch tomorrow, I'd assume both teams will have a half-assed roster Sunday. Lou said he would like to get Z an inning or two of work though.
Understandable. I would say that the Cubs lineup for the last game of the Mets series was pretty thin as well, with the 3 "star" players on the bench to go along with 2 more everyday players. I'm not saying the Cubs should sit their starters or that they're screwing the Brewers over by playing them, I'm just curious as to people's opinions.
Also, don't you think if the Cubs and Brewers switched positions (Cubs were playing for their lives, at Wrigley, got a big win over the Brewers when the Mets lost, etc.) Cubs fans would also be making fun of the Brewers fans who made the trip to Wrigley? We just took a 1 game lead with 2 games to play for a chance to go to the playoffs for the first time in 26 years by beating OUR biggest division rival, whose fans make up almost 1/2 of the crowd at our own home game. We HAVE to be excited, it's an exciting time for Brewers fans. We're not just going to sit around and be quiet to Cubs fans when they were able to be loud and obnoxious towards us in the last series in Miller Park. I wasn't at the game, and I wasn't someone doing that to Cubs fans, and I wouldn't tell Cubs fans they suck because I realize they have a much better approach at the plate (what I believe is what separates them from us mainly, and the bullpen), but was it REALLY that ridiculous for Brewers fans to say something to Cubs fans at this exciting time? In my opinion it's not, I apologize if it was.
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I wasn't offended or anything. I thought it was hilarious.
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PTM, I know that's you who created the account Dave1982 to portray us Brewer fans in this light.
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PTM, I know that's you who created the account Dave1982 to portray us Brewer fans in this light.
Dude. I am hungover as crap right now. I promise it was not me. I would not have had the necessary motorskills to do any such activity.
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I wasn't offended or anything. I thought it was hilarious.
I'm pretty sure if it was the other way around you would see some pretty ridiculous behavior as well. Some fans of every team are just plain idiots.
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I have what I think is a somewhat unique perspective. I grew up in Rockford, IL (not Chicago!), so I have been a Cubs fan since about 1975. However, I have an uncle who brainwashed me into being a Packers fan since about 1978.
It has amazed me ever since that there are so many people in Illinois who are level-headed intelligent people during the summer, but are such loud mouth idiots during the winter. Then again, there are thousands of people in Wisconsin who are brilliant during the winter, but come spring time, I wonder if they are smart enough to tie their shoes.
Don't get me started about the number of people in the state who can be totally cool for three hours a week during the football season when they are dressed in green, but the rest of the time their red sweatshirts and Badger license plates make them complete idiots.
I guess it is just something I have to deal with on my own. By the way, I will be the guy with the Packers shirt and Cubs hat at the Cubs-Brewers game this afternoon. I love the looks from people trying to decide if they want to high five me or smack me upside the head.
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This coming from a guy who said he was "having a hard time caring about the bears season" 3 games in.
correction, i said that the day after the draft. How do you not try to improve the qb situation? There is no young promising up and comer and you don't take a shot at either Brennan or Dixon in the 5th round? That cb we picked up who hasn't played a down yet better be worth it. We went into a rebuilding year without a plan for the future to rebuild with. How stupid can you be?
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Brewer fans crack me up. After beating the Cubs tonight all we heard is how much the Cubs suck and chants of scoreboard.
I don't know what makes it funnier. That 1) the Cubs have clinched a playoff spot 2) the Cubs have clinched home field advantage until the World Series 3) the Cubs are 6-1 at Miller Park now or 4) the Brewers haven't clinched a playoff spot yet.
The usual response was laughter or pointing to the Divison Champion shirt.
is that counting when playing the astros?
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correction, i said that the day after the draft.
actually, you said it last sunday night
i don't think brennan nor dixon is going are ever going to be a starting nfl qb, but i agree the bears do need to address that poistion, along with just about every position on offense with the possible exception of rb
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actually, you said it last sunday night
i don't think brennan nor dixon is going are ever going to be a starting nfl qb, but i agree the bears do need to address that poistion, along with just about every position on offense with the possible exception of rb
well i said it AGAIN last sunday.
Forte the new running back is the best player on O the bears have had since curtis conway. That says more about the rest of the bears than it does about about him.
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Milwaukee making the playoffs is worse for baseball than Barry Bonds breaking the home run record. Ratings will plumet across the country.
(http://media1.suntimes.com/multimedia/g092908cub04_cst_feed_20080929_07_10_38_26-400-275.imageContent)
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I think I just vomited a little bit in my mouth
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*Bump*
So do we just want to continue this one? Or start a new one? ITS BASEBALL SEASON!
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*Bump*
So do we just want to continue this one? Or start a new one? ITS BASEBALL SEASON!
Well done. I say start a new one. Although, are all Brewer fans conceeding the division to the Cubs as I am (barring injuries, etc. of course)?
Still gotta wait 2 weeks though. That sucks. What am I supposed to do...work?
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Keep this going...
The Brewers will contend unlike the experts wil prick. Braun is far and above the real deal and will keep the Brewers ahead of the Cards IMO.
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Keep this going...
The Brewers will contend unlike the experts wil prick. Braun is far and above the real deal and will keep the Brewers ahead of the Cards IMO.
Unless Dice-K throws a fastball past him... you see that crap tonight?
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Zambrano- 20 win season and CY young this year. This is the year he controls his emotions and avoids a prolonged slump
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Zambrano- 20 win season and CY young this year. This is the year he controls his emotions and avoids a prolonged slump
Again? How many consecutive years is that now?
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Brewer fans thoughts on yet another closer getting injured? Too bad they let go of Gagne so soon!!!
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Brewer fans thoughts on yet another closer getting injured? Too bad they let go of Gagne so soon!!!
Too bad Brewer fans can't make up rock songs about a .265 hitter who routinely spins himself into the ground on strikeouts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dAFlpvz5AM
Looking forward to more racist Fukodome shirts and drunk fat chicks falling into the baskets.
So will 2009 be a year where Cubs fans blame farm animals or dudes in green turtle necks for their collapse??
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Keep this going...
The Brewers will contend unlike the experts wil prick. Braun is far and above the real deal and will keep the Brewers ahead of the Cards IMO.
If he can stay healthy...
His rib cage is bothering him again (same injury as last year) since he tweaked it at the WBC
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Too bad Brewer fans can't make up rock songs about a .265 hitter who routinely spins himself into the ground on strikeouts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dAFlpvz5AM
Looking forward to more racist Fukodome shirts and drunk fat chicks falling into the baskets.
So will 2009 be a year where Cubs fans blame farm animals or dudes in green turtle necks for their collapse??
What will the brewers excuse be win they go back to their sub .500 ways? Looper is not going to be CC, or Ben Sheets.
And talk about fat chicks, have you seen those cows that come from Wisconsin?
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Zambrano- 20 win season and CY young this year. This is the year he controls his emotions and avoids a prolonged slump
09- look I know you are pretty dumb :P but I think Zambrano has just as likely chances to win the Cy Young as Chris Capuano has.
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09- look I know you are pretty dumb :P but I think Zambrano has just as likely chances to win the Cy Young as Chris Capuano has.
Ari, just enjoy the Brewers 5th place finsih this season. Good luck winning without any pitching. Sure will be embarassing for you and your crew this year when the Reds finish ahead of you
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Ari, just enjoy the Brewers 5th place finsih this season. Good luck winning without any pitching. Sure will be embarassing for you and your crew this year when the Reds finish ahead of you
5th place finish? Can we get some sort of bet going with the over/under on the Brewers finishing in 5th place?
I'd love to get a couple (hundred) dollars down on that.
Meanwhile...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrobcJa_EV8
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* There also is a new pennant up in the left-field area marking the team's 2008 Wild Card playoff entry.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/41969087.html
I didn't know Tom Crean was in the Brewers' front office...
5th place, my ass
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* There also is a new pennant up in the left-field area marking the team's 2008 Wild Card playoff entry.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/41969087.html
I didn't know Tom Crean was in the Brewers' front office...
5th place, my ass
HAHAHAHA I am surprised that there isn't a second pennant going up stating that they won 1 game against the Phillies!!!
What a joke!
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Marquette09?
5th for the Brewers and Zambrano wins the Cy Young...may I have a pound of whatever drugs you are consuming?
And you laughed at me because I was going bet on Sergio winning at Augusta (I want a free taylormade burner http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090320005293&newsLang=en) but man... you crazy
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HAHAHAHA I am surprised that there isn't a second pennant going up stating that they won 1 game against the Phillies!!!
What a joke!
Well... there certainly won't be one in Wrigley celebrating the Cubs win against LA.
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Too bad Brewer fans can't make up rock songs about a .265 hitter who routinely spins himself into the ground on strikeouts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dAFlpvz5AM
Looking forward to more racist Fukodome shirts and drunk fat chicks falling into the baskets.
So will 2009 be a year where Cubs fans blame farm animals or dudes in green turtle necks for their collapse??
That video was made in April 2008... when Koskue was arguably the hottest hitter in baseball
As for the fat drunk chicks... I think these pictures speak for themselves. Maybe drunk... but most certinaly not fat
(http://sportswrap.berecruited.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/murphy.jpg)
(http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/jenn_sterger/07/26/mailbag/p2_sterger.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PxceohQt6YA/R_wPM8at_DI/AAAAAAAAADM/oHr3JgxKtf8/s400/Picture+4.png)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PxceohQt6YA/SAViTKKi8jI/AAAAAAAAAEI/HdDFg92cVn0/s1600/painted_cubs_shirt.jpg)
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That video was made in April 2008... when Koskue was arguably the hottest hitter in baseball
As for the fat drunk chicks... I think these pictures speak for themselves. Maybe drunk... but most certinaly not fat
(http://sportswrap.berecruited.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/murphy.jpg)
(http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/jenn_sterger/07/26/mailbag/p2_sterger.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PxceohQt6YA/R_wPM8at_DI/AAAAAAAAADM/oHr3JgxKtf8/s400/Picture+4.png)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PxceohQt6YA/SAViTKKi8jI/AAAAAAAAAEI/HdDFg92cVn0/s1600/painted_cubs_shirt.jpg)
Yeah I've never seen a Cubs fan who does not look at least that good...
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Well... there certainly won't be one in Wrigley celebrating the Cubs win against LA.
Fair enough, but I also don't believe that the cubs have flown a banner for the wild card they won in 2003, but I could be mistaken...
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Fair enough, but I also don't believe that the cubs have flown a banner for the wild card they won in 2003, but I could be mistaken...
They won the division in 03 Rob. They won the Wild Card in 1998 and there is a pennant on the roof for it.
There are pennants for all the playoff teams (thus 1998), Sosa's 66, Wood's 20, Dawson's MVP Year, Maddux's 300th, Jackie Robinson's Number 32, and last season there was an NIU flag.
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They won the division in 03 Rob. They won the Wild Card in 1998 and there is a pennant on the roof for it.
There are pennants for all the playoff teams (thus 1998), Sosa's 66, Wood's 20, Dawson's MVP Year, Maddux's 300th, Jackie Robinson's Number 32, and last season there was an NIU flag.
Ah yes, now I remember the double header against the pirates to clinch the division!
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Marquette09?
5th for the Brewers and Zambrano wins the Cy Young...may I have a pound of whatever drugs you are consuming?
And you laughed at me because I was going bet on Sergio winning at Augusta (I want a free taylormade burner http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090320005293&newsLang=en) but man... you crazy
Did you see Tiger today...he is officially back. Sergio, aka Mr. I can't make a putt in a major, has no chance. The odds of Sergio winning at Augusta are the same as the Brewers winning the division this year.....slim to nil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjbPx5Ac4SY
Sergio can not beat that man
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Spartan-
there is a lil nip showing on that first girl :o because in reality no cub fan is that hot soI am gonna need some proof that those girls actually exist, or did you just do a google image search and photoshop it? because I can do that too:
(http://yogibrewer.mlblogs.com/my_weblog/images/wcbf2.jpg)
(http://bleacherreport.com/images_root/user_pictures/0008/8565/cute_profile_page.jpg)http://bleacherreport.com/users/100755-Jennifer-Kerhin (http://bleacherreport.com/users/100755-Jennifer-Kerhin)
(http://graphics2.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/apr05/youngbonnie040905.jpg)
(http://findthehumor.tv/welcome/images/trenni2_001.jpg)
http://coedmagazine.com/2007/10/01/milwaukee-brewers-sexy-fans/ (http://coedmagazine.com/2007/10/01/milwaukee-brewers-sexy-fans/)
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While I did do a google image search to find those, I did not photoshop them. I do not have photoshop on my computer, nor access to photoshop.
Many of the images are here
http://cubscuties.blogspot.com/
The sports illustrated one was, I believe, Ryan Dempsters wife
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yeah I'll concede that finding pictures of attractive female brewer fans via the google is rather tough, while finding hot cubbie girls is much easier. though I dunno if the Cubbie fans are as big picture whores as they are....
I'll have to keep my eye out for cute brewer girls this year I'm sure there are more than what google offers...hopefully
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yeah I'll concede that finding pictures of attractive female brewer fans via the google is rather tough, while finding hot cubbie girls is much easier. though I dunno if the Cubbie fans are as big picture whores as they are....
I'll have to keep my eye out for cute brewer girls this year I'm sure there are more than what google offers...hopefully
There is plenty of eye candy at Miller Park on a summer Friday night; may not be as prevalent as the Cubbies girls, but at least they are watching the game.
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Are the Brewers bringing back the Miller Light Dancers or whatever they were called? Nothing says minor league baseball like a dance team.
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Are the Brewers bringing back the Miller Light Dancers or whatever they were called? Nothing says minor league baseball like a dance team.
The Brewers are one mascot slide short of a minor league...wait...nevermind.
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I'm fine with dancers and slides over the circus act that will be Pinella, Zambrano, and Bradley in the same clubhouse for an entire baseball season. Over/under on first punch thrown at May 15.
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The Brewers are one mascot slide short of a minor league...wait...nevermind.
Yes, because those sorts of things are certainly unique to Milwaukee where MLB is concerned. ::)
You do realize you sound like the Badger fans who try to make fun of the Xylophone in MU's band, right? Because that stuff matters.
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I'm fine with dancers and slides over the circus act that will be Pinella, Zambrano, and Bradley in the same clubhouse for an entire baseball season. Over/under on first punch thrown at May 15.
HAHAHA CIRCUS!
What about the brewers circus? I heard the highlights of 2009 include:
1) Braun trying to catch a flyball
2) Bill Hall playing 3rd
3) Rickie Weeks
4) The brewers second attempt at getting a big name closer (because the first one worked out so well)
5) Prince Fielder in an eating contest
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Yes, because those sorts of things are certainly unique to Milwaukee where MLB is concerned. ::)
You do realize you sound like the Badger fans who try to make fun of the Xylophone in MU's band, right? Because that stuff matters.
In baseball, it does matter.
Remember when the Brewers were all excited to lose CC and Sheets so they could build a nucleus around the four first round draft picks that they would receive in return?
Then, the Yankees signed CC and Teixeria giving the Brewers a mere sandwich pick.
Then, Ben Sheets was going to sign with the Rangers, but failed the physical.
Then, the Brewers had to pay for the surgery to Sheets?
Then, the Brewers ended up with only ONE first-round draft pick which will fall in the 30's somewhere?
That sucks.
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In baseball, it does matter.
Remember when the Brewers were all excited to lose CC and Sheets so they could build a nucleus around the four first round draft picks that they would receive in return?
Then, the Yankees signed CC and Teixeria giving the Brewers a mere sandwich pick.
Then, Ben Sheets was going to sign with the Rangers, but failed the physical.
Then, the Brewers had to pay for the surgery to Sheets?
Then, the Brewers ended up with only ONE first-round draft pick which will fall in the 30's somewhere?
That sucks.
Come again...What on earth does any of that have to do with the Miller Lite girls or Bernie Brewer?
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HAHAHA CIRCUS!
What about the brewers circus? I heard the highlights of 2009 include:
1) Braun trying to catch a flyball
2) Bill Hall playing 3rd
3) Rickie Weeks
4) The brewers second attempt at getting a big name closer (because the first one worked out so well)
5) Prince Fielder in an eating contest
1) http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/braunry02.shtml <--- 1.000 Fielding Pct.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/soriaal01.shtml <--- .975 Fielding Pct. Note: They didn't include his 1.000 gay post putout hop percentage. Very consistent in that regard.
2) http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hallbi03.shtml <--- .940 Career 3B Fielding Pct.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ramirar01.shtml <--- .949 Career 3B Fielding Pct. (Note: For a FULL TIME 3B). Something to be proud of.
3) Okay? Overrated, overhyped, and pretty much garbage? Fine. Kosuke Fukudome. I win.
4) Trevor Hoffman - 554 career saves. 2.78 career ERA
Kevin Gregg - 62 career saves. 4.00 career ERA.
Laugh it up.
Win a playoff game.
5)
(http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Prince-Fielder-R.jpg)
It'll be REAL funny for Cubs fans when the vegetarian sensation is competing for the NL home run title...
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1) http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/braunry02.shtml <--- 1.000 Fielding Pct.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/soriaal01.shtml <--- .975 Fielding Pct. Note: They didn't include his 1.000 gay post putout hop percentage. Very consistent in that regard.
Never once did I mention Soriano as a God in LF... The reason braun didn't get any errors is because he completely misplayed balls that went over his head.
He didn't get an error because he wasn't even able to touch the ball! I want you to tell me that Braun is a great LF defensively.
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Is Ryan Braun an amazing hitter? No doubt, he's a stud.
But anyone who brings up Braun's 1.000 fielding percentage is just ignorant. When you fall down, let the ball land over your head, or just can't get to balls you are not charged an error.
If you want to brag about Braun's offense go ahead. But to bring up Braun's defense is a pure joke.
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The Brewers are one mascot slide short of a minor league...wait...nevermind.
...and they have 1 more playoff win than the Cubs do in the past 5 years. EMBARRASSING!
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...and they have 1 more playoff win than the Cubs do in the past 5 years. EMBARRASSING!
Since the Brewers are the ONLY team in baseball without a Division Title in the last 26 years...they have 5 less playoff appearances and 8 less playoff wins than the Cubs in that time....an equally as meaningful statistic....but certainly more embarrassing.
Bragging about losing a first round playoff series 3-1 to the team you finished 2nd to in the division....doesn't seem to make a lot of sense...but for a small market team I guess it's exciting to have the attention....here we go again....should be fun.
Did the Packers have a better season than the Bears because they'll get a higher draft pick?
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Since the Brewers are the ONLY team in baseball without a Division Title in the last 26 years...they have 5 less playoff appearances and 8 less playoff wins than the Cubs in that time....an equally as meaningful statistic....but certainly more embarrassing.
Bragging about losing a first round playoff series 3-1 to the team you finished 2nd to in the division....doesn't seem to make a lot of sense...but for a small market team I guess it's exciting to have the attention....here we go again....should be fun.
Did the Packers have a better season than the Bears because they'll get a higher draft pick?
Haha we still have 1 more win than you in the last 5 years. The Brewers, who are "one mascot slide short of a minor league..." won more playoff games than you did last year. How does that make you feel?
Comparing the Packers vs. Bears, really? That'd be like me trying to compare the Bucks and the Bulls if the Bucks had a better record last year (that didn't happen, I'm just saying...). Let's be honest, the Packers are ass kickers historically and the bears...are not. The Brewers and the Cubs? Well, quite honestly, both suck historically.
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Haha we still have 1 more win than you in the last 5 years. The Brewers, who are "one mascot slide short of a minor league..." won more playoff games than you did last year. How does that make you feel?
It really doesn't bother me because in the end we both crapped it away in the DS.
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I'm fine with dancers and slides over the circus act that will be Pinella, Zambrano, and Bradley in the same clubhouse for an entire baseball season. Over/under on first punch thrown at May 15.
Physical altercations in Cubs dugout/clubhouse last season: 0
Physical altercations in Brewers dugout/clubhouse last season: 1 (Parra & Prince)
Physical altercations in Cubs dugout/clubhouse in 2007: 1 (Barrett & Zambrano)
Physical altercations in Brewers dugout/clubhouse in 2007: 1 (Yost & Graffanino & Estrada)
I believe the Brewers have more "circus acts" than the Cubs in the last few years.
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Physical altercations in Cubs dugout/clubhouse last season: 0
Physical altercations in Brewers dugout/clubhouse last season: 1 (Parra & Prince)
Physical altercations in Cubs dugout/clubhouse in 2007: 1 (Barrett & Zambrano)
Physical altercations in Brewers dugout/clubhouse in 2007: 1 (Yost & Graffanino & Estrada)
I believe the Brewers have more "circus acts" than the Cubs in the last few years.
Not saying who's right or wrong because I don't know either, but nobody knows how many clubhouse altercations there really are. Those are the 3 that were caught on TV in the dugout. Nobody sees what goes on in the clubhouse.
Here's to hoping Zambrano doesn't have an emotional meltdown every time out this year. And hopefully no ACL tears for Bradley while arguing calls. Maybe Pinella can stay away from kicking umpires this year too.
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Not saying who's right or wrong because I don't know either, but nobody knows how many clubhouse altercations there really are. Those are the 3 that were caught on TV in the dugout. Nobody sees what goes on in the clubhouse.
I'll give you that no one knows what goes on in the clubhouse. I just think it's hard for Brewers fans to criticize the Cubs when they've had more public altercations.
As for Milton Bradley's attitude I love this story from the Chicago Tribune:
Cubs' Piniella likes Bradley's intensity
By Paul Sullivan
MESA, Ariz.- Milton Bradley was in midseason form Thursday night in Scottsdale, putting on quite a show during the wind-shortened game against San Francisco.
After homering in the second, Bradley beat out an infield hit in the fourth and waved his arms frantically to let first base umpire Tim McClelland know he was safe. McClelland agreed with Bradley's call. After reaching on a walk in the fifth, he was forced at second on an Armis Ramirez grounder and went ballistic when second base umpire Jim Reynolds ruled him out. Reynolds didn't seem to appreciate Bradley's call, though replays suggested Bradley was correct.
While Bradley was making a scene on his way back to the Cubs dugout, a fan in the front row wearing a Ryne Sandberg jersey yelled: "You were safe."
Bradley looked up at the fan and screamed loud enough for everyone to hear: "You're (darn) right I was safe."
Bradley may not be making any new friends with the umpires, which is OK since he has MLB disciplinarian Bob Watson on speed-dial.
But he certainly is endearing himself to Cubs fans who like a little entertainment in otherwise meaningless Cactus League games.
"Well, he was intense all night last night," manager Lou Piniella said. "I like intensity. What can I say? And I'm sure he's going to bring a lot of that to the party."
Bradley came into Friday's game hitting .500, and Piniella is unlikely to rein him in as long as he continues to hit like that. Piniella said he doesn't handle players the same way he did earlier in his managerial career.
"I'm older, and I've learned a lot from my mistakes of the past," he said. "Look, I just want these guys to play and play hard and win as many ballgames as he possibly can. Outside of that, I can overlook a lot of things."
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(http://blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/sportsbeacon/Uncle%20Milty.jpg)
=
(http://www.buffalorising.com/assets_c/2009/03/terrell_owens_crying-thumb-505xauto-1502.jpg)
Of course everyone likes the "intensity" at the beginning. What team DOESN'T love T.O. at the beginning?
Give it two months, when Milton doesn't hit where Milton thinks Milton should be hitting in the lineup.
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Haha we still have 1 more win than you in the last 5 years. The Brewers, who are "one mascot slide short of a minor league..." won more playoff games than you did last year. How does that make you feel?
Comparing the Packers vs. Bears, really? That'd be like me trying to compare the Bucks and the Bulls if the Bucks had a better record last year (that didn't happen, I'm just saying...). Let's be honest, the Packers are ass kickers historically and the bears...are not. The Brewers and the Cubs? Well, quite honestly, both suck historically.
What's the relevance of the last 5 years? Because the Brewers finally made the playoffs? How about the last 26 years? Since that's equally as irrelevant, I'll choose to use that timeframe. How does it make you feel that the Brewers have not won their division in 26 years....the only team in baseball to accomplish that feat. Honestly, the Brewers winning 1 playoff game in the last 26 years has exactly zero impact on me.....or any Cubs fan....or on anyone outside of the 30 mile radius of Miller Park where the Brewers pull their fans. It has as much impact on me as DePaul winning 1 NCAA tournament game in the last 20....although they at least advanced to the next round when they did so.
If you think entering the playoffs as a wildcard, losing in the NLDS 3-1 and coming in second place in the division...7.5 games behind the Cubs....means a better season then so be it. I disagree. As would a lot of people. Winning games within a playoff series is meaningless unless you advance to the next round. There are no moral victories. If the Brewers made the postseason more than once in your lifetime you'd understand. If you're lucky enough for the Brewers to put together a playoff run with some regularity, you'll get it and won't be gloating about losing 3 of 4 in the first round.
If you're going to lose in the NLDS I'd assume win the division with a 97 win season.
The Bears/Packers comparison was called an analogy (see DePaul example above). By your logic I'm sure you'll I agree with my statement.
I agree, historically, both teams have not done well.
Anyone think we should start a new thread for the '09 season? This thing will reach 100 pages if we're not careful.
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Anyone think we should start a new thread for the '09 season? This thing will reach 100 pages if we're not careful.
TT and I were talking about that, and we thought it would be awesome to keep this one going!!!
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What's the relevance of the last 5 years? Because the Brewers finally made the playoffs? How about the last 26 years? Since that's equally as irrelevant, I'll choose to use that timeframe. How does it make you feel that the Brewers have not won their division in 26 years....the only team in baseball to accomplish that feat. Honestly, the Brewers winning 1 playoff game in the last 26 years has exactly zero impact on me.....or any Cubs fan....or on anyone outside of the 30 mile radius of Miller Park where the Brewers pull their fans. It has as much impact on me as DePaul winning 1 NCAA tournament game in the last 20....although they at least advanced to the next round when they did so.
If you think entering the playoffs as a wildcard, losing in the NLDS 3-1 and coming in second place in the division...7.5 games behind the Cubs....means a better season then so be it. I disagree. As would a lot of people. Winning games within a playoff series is meaningless unless you advance to the next round. There are no moral victories. If the Brewers made the postseason more than once in your lifetime you'd understand. If you're lucky enough for the Brewers to put together a playoff run with some regularity, you'll get it and won't be gloating about losing 3 of 4 in the first round.
If you're going to lose in the NLDS I'd assume win the division with a 97 win season.
The Bears/Packers comparison was called an analogy (see DePaul example above). By your logic I'm sure you'll I agree with my statement.
I agree, historically, both teams have not done well.
Anyone think we should start a new thread for the '09 season? This thing will reach 100 pages if we're not careful.
I just think it's hilarious that the Cubs fans think the Cubs are so far superior to the Brewers, yet when you look at it, they haven't even been in the World Series since before most Cubs fans were born. Let alone they haven't WON a World Series since before just about every single Cubs fan was born. And they consider the Brewers a minor league team. So I think it's funny that they haven't won a playoff game in the last 5 years. So, in essence, the Cubs' playoff success throughout my lifetime is just about as bad as the Brewers' playoff success. I would look at playoff success over the last 26 years, your timeline proposed, as at least GETTING to the World Series. Neither team have done that. The Cubs aren't the Red Sox or Yankees.
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I just think it's hilarious that the Cubs fans think the Cubs are so far superior to the Brewers, yet when you look at it, they haven't even been in the World Series since before most Cubs fans were born. Let alone they haven't WON a World Series since before just about every single Cubs fan was born. And they consider the Brewers a minor league team. So I think it's funny that they haven't won a playoff game in the last 5 years. So, in essence, the Cubs' playoff success throughout my lifetime is just about as bad as the Brewers' playoff success. I would look at playoff success over the last 26 years, your timeline proposed, as at least GETTING to the World Series. Neither team have done that. The Cubs aren't the Red Sox or Yankees.
Who's the one continually bringing up 1 playoff win in the last 5 years....and claiming an astoundingly successful season? I can't imagine Cubs fans thinking we're superior to anyone when it comes to playoff success....but to hear it from a Brewers fan?!
I've never once called the Brewers a minor league team....small market, obviously. Minor league? Not as far as I can tell. Although this year's starting rotation may pose an interesting argument.
I'm not sure how old you are, but if you compare the Cubs 6 playoff appearances and 9 wins to the Brewers 1 appearance and 1 win and consider them similar....then, well, more power to ya. And don't construe that as boasting about Cubs playoff success....we get it, have been there before and are not happy about it.
So now you're gauging playoff success as getting to the World Series...that's quite a shift from gloating about winning a single game in the NLDS/postseason in the last 26 years....or 5 years for that matter....but I agree.
It seemed as though you were comparing overall season success before...as if to say winning one playoff game as wild card in 5 years is more impressive than back-to-back Division Titles. An interesting debate.
Another analogy (I'm crazy like that)....did DePaul have a better season than Georgetown because they won a game in the BE Tournament?
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Although I am a brewers fan (bigger cards fan) I find it pretty funny that arguably the 5th and 6th most successful teams in the division (as currently alligned) are arguing about who's been better over the past 30 years.
As for Bradley, I'd put the over/under on games he plays in at 110 and will gladly take any action on the over.
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I will take the over.
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I will take the over.
you got odds, i got evens
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Physical altercations in Brewers dugout/clubhouse in 2007: 1 (Yost & Graffanino & Estrada)
I believe the Brewers have more "circus acts" than the Cubs in the last few years.
Did you seriously just try and make Tony Graffanino relavant to the brewers again? Wow... And that Parra/Prince incident wasn't as bad as you seem to want to force yourself to remember
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Anyone notice that pretty rickie is hitting in the .400s this spring/ Sveum changed his swing a little and he's coming around a little faster, enough to hit the ball better. With him hitting well the brewers will have a real great offensive machine.
Escobar will be starting at 3rd by June (or SS with JJ and 3rd), and Billy Hall will return to this role as a util infielder. I think Cameron will get shopped around and the Brewers will TRADE PRINCE FIELDER... Probably for Matt Cain and Mat Gamel could play first. and the brewers will have a marginally desireable rotation again.
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Although I am a brewers fan (bigger cards fan)
Shameful.
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and the Brewers will TRADE PRINCE FIELDER... Probably for Matt Cain and Mat Gamel could play first. and the brewers will have a marginally desireable rotation again.
How the Brewers haven't done this yet is blowing my mind.
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Shameful.
I know, it sucked when the Brewers changed leagues I just couldn't abandon them.
How the Brewers haven't done this yet is blowing my mind.
They still have control of him for another 3 years (including this season). I would wait to trade him until at least after the first two years. I don't think the trade market for him is as good as some people seem to think as some teams might be scared away by his weight and his agent. Although he's pretty bad on defense, there's no denying he's a damn good offensive player right now.
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Also-
Anyone notice that pretty rickie is hitting in the .400s this spring/ Sveum changed his swing a little and he's coming around a little faster, enough to hit the ball better. With him hitting well the brewers will have a real great offensive machine.
Bradley is hitting damn near .600 but im not going to celebrate about it!
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Did you seriously just try and make Tony Graffanino relavant to the brewers again? Wow... And that Parra/Prince incident wasn't as bad as you seem to want to force yourself to remember
I did seriously do that because the comment before mine about Zambrano and Barrett from two years ago was equally as relavant.
I agree the Prince/Parra incident wasn't bad but it's kind of hypocritical calling the Cubs a circus when you've had scuffles on TV in the dugout the last two seasons.
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Why the hell do I keep on reading this thread? It's MUScoop's version of The Real World. Absolutely mind-numbing. Yet I keep on reading (watching) it.
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Why the hell do I keep on reading this thread? It's MUScoop's version of The Real World. Absolutely mind-numbing. Yet I keep on reading (watching) it.
Eh, its fun, and thats why it was created...
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I know, it sucked when the Brewers changed leagues I just couldn't abandon them.
It was still shameful then. Sports bigamy is a crime against humanity.
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I did seriously do that because the comment before mine about Zambrano and Barrett from two years ago was equally as relavant.
I agree the Prince/Parra incident wasn't bad but it's kind of hypocritical calling the Cubs a circus when you've had scuffles on TV in the dugout the last two seasons.
I'd say the Prince/Parra incident is a pretty isolated occurrence. Neither one has had any issues since.
Meanwhile, Zambrano is a documented hot head and prima donna. Bradley's no better. And let's not even get started on Pinella's antics. If you think Prince is on the same level as Zambrano when it comes to ego, I'd say you're sorely mistaken.
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The Prince/Parra altercation was Prince saying to Parra to get the sand out of his vag and quit crying after a bad day.
Estrada was a headcase as well.
I think Calling the Cubs a circus now is because they have players and managers that have reputations for dong it in the past. Prince and Parra aren't established enough to be known for those issues (also they really havent) and Graff/Estrada were too irrelavant to care.
Anyone notice that the crew placed T-GwynnJR on waivers today? I wish he would be able to wear a brewer untiform. He has so much raw tallent/skill
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The Prince/Parra altercation was Prince saying to Parra to get the sand out of his vag and quit crying after a bad day.
Estrada was a headcase as well.
I think Calling the Cubs a circus now is because they have players and managers that have reputations for dong it in the past. Prince and Parra aren't established enough to be known for those issues (also they really havent) and Graff/Estrada were too irrelavant to care.
Anyone notice that the crew placed T-GwynnJR on waivers today? I wish he would be able to wear a brewer untiform. He has so much raw tallent/skill
I fully expect TGJ to be in the Brewers minor league, no one will pick him up. Nor will he ever play meaningful time in the Majors.
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I fully expect TGJ to be in the Brewers minor league, no one will pick him up. Nor will he ever play meaningful time in the Majors.
hate to say it but +1. I really don't see him as much more than a guy that would come in late to play the field or as a pinch runner. The raw skill is there and you would think that with a dad like TG he'd have developed a bit more by now.
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I fully expect TGJ to be in the Brewers minor league, no one will pick him up. Nor will he ever play meaningful time in the Majors.
+1
If his last name was Smith or Jones I think he would have been gone quite some time ago. He plays good defense and has some speed (which makes him a decent candidate for a 4th or 5th outfielder/pinch runner) but he definitely cannot hit for any power whatsoever (even doubles) and has not exhibited any real ability to hit for average even at the AAA level.
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http://deadspin.com/5197575/a-few-fun-facts-about-the-manatee-cc-win-over-the-pirates (http://deadspin.com/5197575/a-few-fun-facts-about-the-manatee-cc-win-over-the-pirates)
atleast we aren't pirates fans...i hope none of you are pirates fans
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With the Cubs and Red Sox already moving their opening day games back a day because of bad weather, why would any team ever make a new stadium with a retractable roof on it? What an awful idea. It's awesome playing in the 34 degree sleet with huge winds, or playing permanently in a dome, even when the weather's perfect.
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With the Cubs and Red Sox already moving their opening day games back a day because of bad weather, why would any team ever make a new stadium with a retractable roof on it? What an awful idea. It's awesome playing in the 34 degree sleet with huge winds, or playing permanently in a dome, even when the weather's perfect.
*cough* Cubs are in Houston tonight.
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With the Cubs and Red Sox already moving their opening day games back a day because of bad weather, why would any team ever make a new stadium with a retractable roof on it? What an awful idea. It's awesome playing in the 34 degree sleet with huge winds, or playing permanently in a dome, even when the weather's perfect.
Love the sarcasm, when is Lambeau getting outfitted for a roof?
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*cough* Cubs are in Houston tonight.
Haha yeah you're right, I meant the Sox. And PTM, baseball is a summer sport, meant to be played in warm weather, not in ice storms. Football, on the other hand, is a winter sport, with many games played in the snow. Football in snow? Not a problem. Baseball in snow? Well, move it from Cleveland to Milwaukee, where they have a retractable roof. But who would want one of those? Oh yeah, the people calling for all new baseball stadiums being made with retractable roofs, or the others that call for all World Series games being played in a city with the option of a roof so the same World Series game doesn't have to be split up into two different games.
But those retractable roofs are a major failure.
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At least our ace (if we had one) isn't wishing they implode Miller Park to build a new stadium.
And what's with his back tracking two days after the fact? Kind of hard to take to a quote like this out of context.
"You come into a ballpark like this and you see great things," the Cubs ace told the Associated Press before his team's 10-1 exhibition loss at new Yankee Stadium. "You wish that Chicago would build a new stadium for the Cubs," he said.
Surprised he didn't use an interpretor to hide behind like another Cubs hero. ::)
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At least our ace (if we had one) isn't wishing they implode Miller Park to build a new stadium.
And what's with his back tracking two days after the fact? Kind of hard to take to a quote like this out of context.
"You come into a ballpark like this and you see great things," the Cubs ace told the Associated Press before his team's 10-1 exhibition loss at new Yankee Stadium. "You wish that Chicago would build a new stadium for the Cubs," he said.
Surprised he didn't use an interpretor to hide behind like another Cubs hero. ::)
The only one flipping out about that are reporters and non-Cubs fans. Whoop-de-doo, a stadium built in the last 18 months is more spacious than one built 100 years ago.
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The only one flipping out about that are reporters and non-Cubs fans. Whoop-de-doo, a stadium built in the last 18 months is more spacious than one built 100 years ago.
Agreed. He'll make plenty of stupid comments this year, but this isn't one of them.
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Oh yeah, the people calling for all new baseball stadiums being made with retractable roofs,
Who exactly is calling for this? Retractable Roofs have become extinct in baseball stadium design.
Cisco Field, Target Field, New Yankee, Citi Field, New Busch, and Nationals Park none of them have retractable roofs. The last retractable roof was Miller Park, opened in 2001. Since then only Target Field has even entertained the idea of installing a retractable roof. If six stadiums have been designed, planned and built since 2001 and not a single one has a retractable roof, I'm going to consider the idea as big as a failure as domes.
Not too mention the retractable roof systems at Miller Park, Safeco Field and Chase Park all have had to be overhauled and/or constantly maintained due to the quality of the system.
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Who exactly is calling for this? Retractable Roofs have become extinct in baseball stadium design.
Cisco Field, Target Field, New Yankee, Citi Field, New Busch, and Nationals Park none of them have retractable roofs. The last retractable roof was Miller Park, opened in 2001. Since then only Target Field has even entertained the idea of installing a retractable roof. If six stadiums have been designed, planned and built since 2001 and not a single one has a retractable roof, I'm going to consider the idea as big as a failure as domes.
Not too mention the retractable roof systems at Miller Park, Safeco Field and Chase Park all have had to be overhauled and/or constantly maintained due to the quality of the system.
And based on the football stadium in Arizona, apparently retractable fields are the new rage.
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Who exactly is calling for this? Retractable Roofs have become extinct in baseball stadium design.
Cisco Field, Target Field, New Yankee, Citi Field, New Busch, and Nationals Park none of them have retractable roofs. The last retractable roof was Miller Park, opened in 2001. Since then only Target Field has even entertained the idea of installing a retractable roof. If six stadiums have been designed, planned and built since 2001 and not a single one has a retractable roof, I'm going to consider the idea as big as a failure as domes.
Tell me you're joking...with the lone exception of Target Field, which as you said entertained the idea, we are talking about NY, St. Louis, Oakland, and Washington DC. None of those places have anywhere near the weather concerns of Milwaukee. Why would they consider retractable roofs? Places like NY are no picnic in early April, but it is much more moderate and they aren't subject to the same extremes places like Milwaukee see
So yes, retractable roof designs are definitely extinct in places that don't need them (or can't get that big a price tag passed (MN).
I had an invitation to go to opening day at Wrigley last year, but politely declined based almost entirely on the fact that it was cold and rainy. Its just not fun. Give me that roof any time.
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The only one flipping out about that are reporters and non-Cubs fans. Whoop-de-doo, a stadium built in the last 18 months is more spacious than one built 100 years ago.
My main point was that he was to chicken sh!t to own up to wanting a new stadium, and claimed his point was "taken out of context"
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Football, on the other hand, is a winter sport, with many games played in the snow.
Football is a fall sport with very few games played in the snow. The NFL playoffs are a winter sport for a minority of playoff teams.
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My main point was that he was to chicken sh!t to own up to wanting a new stadium, and claimed his point was "taken out of context"
Maybe you should've read his quote the next day:
"I think it's my opinion. And sometimes when fans say something about a player, you have to respect it. But I didn't say we should move. I love Wrigley Field. Don't get me wrong. It's a nice ballpark, but if the Cubs think some time, some period, 10 or 20 years from now, if they think about (building) a new ballpark, it should be good."
Pretty controversial.
This thread has taken a million turns but now ripping on ballparks/Wrigley for not having a retractable roof?!
The Cubs have had exactly 5 games postponed at Wrigley due to weather in the last 5 years...quick math tells me that's about 1 game per season....5 games out of 408 (incl. postseason)...postponed due to weather.
The Astros (and their retractable roof) had more home games postponed than the Cubs last year due to Hurricane Ike, which of course led to Zambrano throwing the first no hitter in Miller Park's histroy...but I digress.
Sure, it's not as comfortable watching a game in 45 degree weather as it is sitting inside a Friday's but I'll take my chances. The Cubs will draw regardless of the weather....the Brewers won't....they need the roof. Even if: it is closed for 30+ games a year and/or remains closed if there's a 10% chance of showers in Iowa in mid-July causing a sausage induced sweat fest it appears to be a necessity. Sometimes, well, it just stays closed....like last year's home opener when it was 70 degrees outside in Milwaukee....or, sometimes it just gets stuck open...like in December...at least it happened in the off-season. The leaking problems seem to be fixed and it seems to be back to functioning automatically...that's good news.
It's important to note that without that roof, they never would've had a chance to host a bowling tournament...something else to consider.....although maybe hosting the Winter Classic at Wrigley could cancel that out...maybe not. I guess it's a matter of preference.
I wonder it the Rays fans give it to the Red Sox fans for having games postponed too....guess I'll have to check out the Rays/Red Sox Pissing Match.
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And based on the football stadium in Arizona, apparently retractable fields are the new rage.
Arizona also has the ability to completely remove the field out of the stadium...maybe Miller Park will have something installed next time the PBA is in town!
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Maybe you should've read his quote the next day:
"I think it's my opinion. And sometimes when fans say something about a player, you have to respect it. But I didn't say we should move. I love Wrigley Field. Don't get me wrong. It's a nice ballpark, but if the Cubs think some time, some period, 10 or 20 years from now, if they think about (building) a new ballpark, it should be good."
Pretty controversial.
This thread has taken a million turns but now ripping on ballparks/Wrigley for not having a retractable roof?!
The Cubs have had exactly 5 games postponed at Wrigley due to weather in the last 5 years...quick math tells me that's about 1 game per season....5 games out of 408 (incl. postseason)...postponed due to weather.
The Astros (and their retractable roof) had more home games postponed than the Cubs last year due to Hurricane Ike, which of course led to Zambrano throwing the first no hitter in Miller Park's histroy...but I digress.
Sure, it's not as comfortable watching a game in 45 degree weather as it is sitting inside a Friday's but I'll take my chances. The Cubs will draw regardless of the weather....the Brewers won't....they need the roof. Even if: it is closed for 30+ games a year and/or remains closed if there's a 10% chance of showers in Iowa in mid-July causing a sausage induced sweat fest it appears to be a necessity. Sometimes, well, it just stays closed....like last year's home opener when it was 70 degrees outside in Milwaukee....or, sometimes it just gets stuck open...like in December...at least it happened in the off-season. The leaking problems seem to be fixed and it seems to be back to functioning automatically...that's good news.
It's important to note that without that roof, they never would've had a chance to host a bowling tournament...something else to consider.....although maybe hosting the Winter Classic at Wrigley could cancel that out...maybe not. I guess it's a matter of preference.
I wonder it the Rays fans give it to the Red Sox fans for having games postponed too....guess I'll have to check out the Rays/Red Sox Pissing Match.
Oh, how I have missed Marquette94's 800 word diatribes. This thread is called a pissing match for a reason, so your "fact" based arguments hold no water here sir. Only close-minded opinions, rumor, and outright lies are fit for pissing matches.
Over/under on the date wadesworlds pisses off some cubs fan here for "taking things too far?"
I say June 3rd.
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Oh, how I have missed Marquette94's 800 word diatribes. This thread is called a pissing match for a reason, so your "fact" based arguments hold no water here sir. Only close-minded opinions, rumor, and outright lies are fit for pissing matches.
Over/under on the date wadesworlds pisses off some cubs fan here for "taking things too far?"
I say June 3rd.
Shucks...always nice to be missed...have no fear, I'll be here all season.
"Facts" are actually effective when making a point....give it a shot.
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I say June 3rd.
I'll take the under on that 1 ;D
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Arizona also has the ability to completely remove the field out of the stadium...maybe Miller Park will have something installed next time the PBA is in town!
Maybe Wrigley should have thought of that, seeing as how the field was destroyed by the Winter Classic.
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Maybe Wrigley should have thought of that, seeing as how the field was destroyed by the Winter Classic.
Yep, and they knew that ahead of time....the NHL paid for the new turf.
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Yep, and they knew that ahead of time....the NHL paid for the new turf.
I know the NHL paid for it but I thought that was an unintended consequence of the game.
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I know the NHL paid for it but I thought that was an unintended consequence of the game.
As part of the agreement between the Cubs and NHL it was bugeted before the game to replace the turf and repair any damage to the field....all they ended up having to do was replace the turf.
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Arizona also has the ability to completely remove the field out of the stadium..
I'd love to know what you thought my post was referring to.
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I had an invitation to go to opening day at Wrigley last year, but politely declined based almost entirely on the fact that it was cold and rainy. Its just not fun. Give me that roof any time.
So what you are saying is that you are the very definition of a fair weather fan! haha, i kill me.
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I think this is fitting after today's game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrobcJa_EV8
Please notice what is being said at the beginning of the video: "By far and away the most obnoxious fans in baseball in this league are those who follow this team right here. See, this is the kind of thing, quite honestly, right now that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose. You simply root against them. At the end of the day they still are the Chicago Cubs and they will figure out a way to screw this whole thing up."
Couldn't say it much better myself.
Anyway, any Cubs fan who talks about how bad Ryan Braun's defense is and how deep he plays defense to keep balls in front of him should probably look at their own left fielder's defense first. First he lets a pop fly (not even close to a blooper) land in front of him in short left, and then, in the NINTH INNING WITH ONE OUT AND A MAN ON FIRST, he misplays a ball and lets it land over his head. Remarkable.
By the way, Ryan Braun saved a run with a great catch today.
Great game today. GO CREW!
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I think this is fitting after today's game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrobcJa_EV8
Please notice what is being said at the beginning of the video: "By far and away the most obnoxious fans in baseball in this league are those who follow this team right here. See, this is the kind of thing, quite honestly, right now that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose. You simply root against them. At the end of the day they still are the Chicago Cubs and they will figure out a way to screw this whole thing up."
Couldn't say it much better myself.
Anyway, any Cubs fan who talks about how bad Ryan Braun's defense is and how deep he plays defense to keep balls in front of him should probably look at their own left fielder's defense first. First he lets a pop fly (not even close to a blooper) land in front of him in short left, and then, in the NINTH INNING WITH ONE OUT AND A MAN ON FIRST, he misplays a ball and lets it land over his head. Remarkable.
By the way, Ryan Braun saved a run with a great catch today.
Great game today. GO CREW!
Crickets...
Go BREWERS!
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Couldn't have said it better myself......happy to see Rickie have things start happening for him too...what a play at the plate!
Go CREW!
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Crickets...
Go BREWERS!
The cubs middle relief is a worry I have...the fact they don't really have any good relievers sans Marmol will make it a tricky year.
I understand a win is a win, but there is no way you can say the brewers swung the bats well...Harden made them look silly
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Couldn't have said it better myself......happy to see Rickie have things start happening for him too...what a play at the plate!
Go CREW!
Yeah, Rickie single handedly won us that game. When is the last time you could say that? 3 great plays at 2nd defensively, the liner to plate the tying run, the stolen 3rd base off of a ball that went about 3 feet from the catcher to the 3rd base line (still not sure how he got that jump and made it to 3rd - if Rickie's still on 2nd that's an inning ending double play), and then to beat the throw to the plate. Awesome.
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/clip?id=4060250&categoryid=2521705
Haha Soriano starts about 4 feet in front of where that ball eventually lands, but he starts to come in on the ball. I haven't played baseball in 8 years and even I know that with a man on 1st in the 9th inning and you're up by a run you don't let the ball get over your head.
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The cubs middle relief is a worry I have...the fact they don't really have any good relievers sans Marmol will make it a tricky year.
I understand a win is a win, but there is no way you can say the brewers swung the bats well...Harden made them look silly
And I will agree with this. Our offense looks awful. Cameron looks like a stud right now (even when he got out yesterday the liners he got out on were shots), and Braun's doing okay, but they're all base hits. Other than that, Rickie's swinging a decent bat, not great, Corey had a big hit yesterday but hasn't looked good so far, Prince is awful, JJ is awful, every time Hall comes up it's a strikeout, and Kendall might not get a hit this year. I have more faith in our pitchers putting the ball in play than I do in 3 of our regulars putting the ball in play.
But I will say, Harden's a stud, and this won't be the only game that he will make a team look silly. Also, Brewers pitchers give up way too many walks/fall behind in the count way too much.
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Anyway, any Cubs fan who talks about how bad Ryan Braun's defense is and how deep he plays defense to keep balls in front of him should probably look at their own left fielder's defense first.
FWIW, in his first season with the Cubs, Soriano had more assists than any Cubs outfielder in 50 years. So it's not all bad.
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Haha the Cubbies made me eat my words today. The first 2 games have been great games so far. Hopefully tomorrow can be just as good.
GO CREW!
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If this is going to be how the year goes...I am going to have an ulcer!
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If this is going to be how the year goes...I am going to have an ulcer!
Yup. By the way, the first base umpire missed that call on Soriano's (should have been) double play. We should be playing a 10th inning right now.
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If this is going to be how the year goes...I am going to have an ulcer!
I agree... although that first base umpire boned the Brewers on 2 plays today...one which cost a run, we should be in the 10th right now.
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What's up with Rickie weeks, if he keeps this up I wil have to call him an actual major leaguer!
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This is how this series should be!
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To break away from the pissing momentarily, +1 to what IAmMarquette just said. What a great series. I was at opening day and missed last night due to the Easter Vigil, but it sounds like it was absolutely as nerve wracking as game 1.
Looking forward to the finale.
Go Crew.
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Haha the people who post on si.com's rumor blogs are not very smart. There's a "rumor" that the Brewers will be tempted to make a run for Peavy towards the deadline (with no sources, no quotes, nothing, just saying they could use him and that Melvin has shown he will spend money and make the big deal...no kidding? I hear the Brewers are trying to trade for Harden. They could use a top end starter, and Melvin has proved he will pull a deal even though he is in a small market.)
Some posters are talking about Prince Fielder for Jake Peavy straight up. If we could get that, and Melvin did not go through on it, I'd go and kill him myself. Not only will Prince Fielder not get us a top end starter from anywhere, but the Padres also have Gonzolez at first. He's better than Prince. That's the 1 spot in their lineup that doesn't need an offensive upgrade. They're talking about how he doesn't just hit for power, he takes walks and is a great overall hitter. Really? From what I've seen, he hits solo homeruns or strikes out. Once in a while he'll walk. He has all of 1 clutch hit in his career. Whenever Braun does something before him, it's a guaranteed strikeout. Not to mention his defense is awful, and he's not becoming any thinner/taller or more athletic.
I would die for a Prince trade that involved a top end starter, but who would want that? Hell I'd trade him for a guy like Bronson Arroyo.
I'm one who doesn't want a Peavy trade. That would mean we'd be giving up either JJ or Escobar. I don't want to give up another top prospect, or our 2nd most consistent player, and best defensive infielder. I would also love for Escobar to be called up, start him at SS, and move JJ over to 3B. If the Brewers are about winning then Bill Hall should not be playing. He had 1 good year, and other than that has been awful. Has he taken a pitch yet this year? I don't care that he's getting paid. He can get paid and watch from the bench. If Escobar is not better than Bill Hall right now then Escobar is completely overrated and I take back these comments, but I doubt that is the case. I want to win baseball games, not satisfy the players we play the most.
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If the Brewers are about winning then Bill Hall should not be playing.
AMEN
Bill Hall has been on a downward spiral since his big year that got him that crazy contract.
I do not know much about escobar but if it involved an upgrade from hall im all for it
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Outside of Gallardo, maybe parra on a good day, this brewer team is going to have big troubles with SP.
I realize the cubs are On-base machines, but this is just ugly!
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Fun series. Great game tonight. First pitch....gone. Reed Johnson's catch. 4 bases loaded walks in the 4th...ugly/funny. Another series win at Wrigley North....4 of the last 5 series in Milwaukee. Taking the first two road series of the year....nice start.
Wrigley home opener tomorrow....looking forward to braving the elements.
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Fun series. Great game tonight. First pitch....gone. Reed Johnson's catch. 4 bases loaded walks in the 4th...ugly/funny. Another series win at Wrigley North....4 of the last 5 series in Milwaukee. Taking the first two road series of the year....nice start.
Wrigley home opener tomorrow....looking forward to braving the elements.
It seems like it will be just as bad as last year, it will become a long day but it should be awesome!!! TT, PTM, Jimbo, and myself will all be in the bleachers!
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Wow that was embarrassing. Suppan might be the worst starting pitcher in the majors.
Also, I hate that Julio hit Johnson after making that play. It was a great defensive play. You're really going to hit a guy for that? You hit a guy for watching a home run or in retaliation of a teammate being hit, not for making a great play.
The Brewers literally hand the Cubs 4 runs, the Cubs rob the Brewers of 3 runs (the Brewers still got 2 of those runs in that would have crossed had Prince not been robbed, so 2 from the robbed grand slam and 1 on Hardy's liner to 2nd that would have scored Braun from 2nd).
Could be a long year with the Brewers pitching and low averages from about 75% of the team.
You heard it here first: Cardinals win the division.
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Haha the people who post on si.com's rumor blogs are not very smart. There's a "rumor" that the Brewers will be tempted to make a run for Peavy towards the deadline (with no sources, no quotes, nothing, just saying they could use him and that Melvin has shown he will spend money and make the big deal...no kidding? I hear the Brewers are trying to trade for Harden. They could use a top end starter, and Melvin has proved he will pull a deal even though he is in a small market.)
Didn't I see in the JS that Attanasio said that the team needs to sell more tickets than last year just to break even?
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You heard it here first: Cardinals win the division.
If carpenter can stay healthy, they are a very scary team!
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Wow that was embarrassing. Suppan might be the worst starting pitcher in the majors.
Also, I hate that Julio hit Johnson after making that play. It was a great defensive play. You're really going to hit a guy for that? You hit a guy for watching a home run or in retaliation of a teammate being hit, not for making a great play.
The Brewers literally hand the Cubs 4 runs, the Cubs rob the Brewers of 3 runs (the Brewers still got 2 of those runs in that would have crossed had Prince not been robbed, so 2 from the robbed grand slam and 1 on Hardy's liner to 2nd that would have scored Braun from 2nd).
Could be a long year with the Brewers pitching and low averages from about 75% of the team.
You heard it here first: Cardinals win the division.
you can still get good odds on that if you are sure. Vegas loves the cubs.
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you can still get good odds on that if you are sure. Vegas loves the cubs.
I would put money on it but I don't have too much to use right now.
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wadesworld, you see this one??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quKraecWnTs&feature=related
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quKraecWnTs&feature=related
Thanks for sharing... ;)
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wadesworld, you see this one??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quKraecWnTs&feature=related
Haha that's good stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBHxkyY6m2k&feature=related
From the related videos on youtube.
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Aww... sure is cute how you crew fans find ways to distract yourselves from your horrible team.
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Aww... sure is cute how you crew fans find ways to distract yourselves from your horrible team.
I have chosen other ways to occupy my time from this abomination of a season just far.... namely, popping in the DVD of our playoff WIN last year. Quite an enjoyable experience to attend one of those.
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Aww... sure is cute how you crew fans find ways to distract yourselves from your horrible team.
Haha I said it from the start, we lost our 2 best pitchers and addressed it by adding a guy who is 24-26 in the last 2 years. In the last 3 games we have given up more runs than we have given up hits and outhit the other team all 3 games, but lost all 3. Our pitching is AWFUL. I am hoping that Ryan Braun is not 100%, because if he is and he's playing this bad we're in for an even longer year than I expected. It's not like he's hitting it hard and getting out, he just looks awful at the plate. Not to mention our 3-5 hitters are hitting about .130 right now.
I think the Cubs miss the playoffs this year. Cards win the division, Mets finally win the Wild Card. So yeah, I'll distract myself by watching a fan base that thinks they're god's gift to baseball go through another year where they think they are finally going to get rid of that curse and make it 101 years.
And let me guess what the predictable Cubs fans will say to that...1908 is better than never having won 1. Well, I'd argue it kind of isn't, since nobody is left that was around then. Also, give the Brewers 100 (and counting) years, and if they still haven't won 1 then I suppose it's fair.
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wadesworld. i know you picked the cards, and i will be nervous if we don't get ahead of them over the next 8 weeks while carpenter is out.
I don't understand about bragging about winning one game in a series you got worked. I don't understand saying "haha, you haven't won it all in a long time." when you've never won one. I do understand your argument that we've had a lot more years so why not pick a year and compare the two teams from that point on. I can think of a few years that I might like to use:
1981: why? cause i was born then. Who has had more success, both playoffs and regular season since then? Da Cubs.
2000: Why? who is better this millennium. Think I'll go with the cubs on this one as well.
2001: Why? that was when you got miller park. (which i like) the cubs.
2003: Why? That is when i became a serious fan. Since I've followed baseball the cubs have done more.
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wadesworld. i know you picked the cards, and i will be nervous if we don't get ahead of them over the next 8 weeks while carpenter is out.
I don't understand about bragging about winning one game in a series you got worked. I don't understand saying "haha, you haven't won it all in a long time." when you've never won one. I do understand your argument that we've had a lot more years so why not pick a year and compare the two teams from that point on. I can think of a few years that I might like to use:
1981: why? cause i was born then. Who has had more success, both playoffs and regular season since then? Da Cubs.
2000: Why? who is better this millennium. Think I'll go with the cubs on this one as well.
2001: Why? that was when you got miller park. (which i like) the cubs.
2003: Why? That is when i became a serious fan. Since I've followed baseball the cubs have done more.
Fair enough. I'll give you that the Cubs have had more success than the Brewers. But let's just agree that neither team is really dominating the rest of the MLB. Both franchises are fairly (or just straight up) unsuccessful franchises. The Cubs are the "lovable" losers, afterall. And the Brewers are just losers.
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Also, give the Brewers 100 (and counting) years, and if they still haven't won 1 then I suppose it's fair.
Well, considering they went 1/4th of the time since the Cubs last won the World Series without even making the playoffs, I'd say the Crew is off to a pretty good start.
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Well, considering they went 1/4th of the time since the Cubs last won the World Series without even making the playoffs, I'd say the Crew is off to a pretty good start.
Yup, but there are still 75 years (and counting) to change that. That's a LONG time. A REALLY long time.
But hey, Ian Kinsler did something that nobody had done since before the Cubs last won the World Series. He's the first person to hit for the cycle with 6 hits in a game. First time since 1894 I believe. Impressive.
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Well, considering they went 1/4th of the time since the Cubs last won the World Series without even making the playoffs, I'd say the Crew is off to a pretty good start.
Didn't the Cubs have a 39 year stretch of missing the playoffs (1945-1984)?
27 < 39 :)
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Well, considering they went 1/4th of the time since the Cubs last won the World Series without even making the playoffs, I'd say the Crew is off to a pretty good start.
The Cubs first season was 1876 and they won their first World Series 31 seasons into their existence. They won their second World Series 32 years into their existence.
The Brewers first season was 1969 as the Seattle Pilots. It has been 40 years and they have yet to win a World Series.
Thus the Cubs got off to a better start than the Brewers.
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The Cubs first season was 1876 and they won their first World Series 31 seasons into their existence. They won their second World Series 32 years into their existence.
The Brewers first season was 1969 as the Seattle Pilots. It has been 40 years and they have yet to win a World Series.
Thus the Cubs got off to a better start than the Brewers.
I hope this was sarcastic, otherwise you're grasping at straws. Comparing the Cub's first 40 years to the Brewers first 40 years when there was nearly a 100 year gap in between. Congrats the Cubs had a better first 40 years!!! The fact of the matter is that both franchises are pretty much at the bottom of the baseball totem pole; but for some reason Cubs fans seem to think their poo don't stink.
Btw, seeing as you're such a diehard fan, I think it would be fairly easy for you to look up and see that the Cubs franchise (then and orginally known as the White Stockings) won the WS in 1885. Even though I hate the Cubs I knew they had won 3 World Series (although I did have to look up the year).
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Again I am only making this point as other Brewer fans made an error in their comment of having a better start than the Cubs.
In no way do I think the 1876-1908 season as any bearing on this season. I simply wanted to correct an erroneous post.
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Btw, seeing as you're such a diehard fan, I think it would be fairly easy for you to look up and see that the Cubs franchise (then and orginally known as the White Stockings) won the WS in 1885. Even though I hate the Cubs I knew they had won 3 World Series (although I did have to look up the year).
You're right I am a diehard fan and you are yet another wrong Brewer fan.
The World Series is the championship game played between the winner of the National League and the winner of the American League. The American League didn't exist until 1901. Thus the championship in 1885 was simply the National League championship. In fact the World Series didn't even begin until 1903 when the two leagues agreed to play each other for the championship.
In 1885, they did play the winner of the American Association, however, that was not the World Series. Nor was that league the same as the American League.
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Didn't the Cubs have a 39 year stretch of missing the playoffs (1945-1984)?
27 < 39 :)
There's now something called the wild card....which didn't exist until 1994. Divisions didn't exist until 1969...the team with the best record from each league won the pennant.
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You're right I am a diehard fan and you are yet another wrong Brewer fan.
The World Series is the championship game played between the winner of the National League and the winner of the American League. The American League didn't exist until 1901. Thus the championship in 1885 was simply the National League championship. In fact the World Series didn't even begin until 1903 when the two leagues agreed to play each other for the championship.
In 1885, they did play the winner of the American Association, however, that was not the World Series. Nor was that league the same as the American League.
I should have said World Championships, although it is almost universally still referred to as the World Series (except by official MLB fo course). Although the series between the winners of the National League and the American Association ended in a 3-3 "tie", most baseball historians consider Chicago the winner of the series as the St. Louis Browns technically forfeited game 2 when their manager called the team off the field.
Either way, the statement that "The Cubs first season was 1876 and they won their first World Series 31 seasons into their existence" doesn't really make sense does it?
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There's now something called the wild card....which didn't exist until 1994. Divisions didn't exist until 1969...the team with the best record from each league won the pennant.
I'm aware of that. Either way, the Cubs still didn't make the playoffs for 39 years. If you want to say the Brewers are still on a drought of winning their division, that would be correct. It would also be correct to say the Cubs are on a 53 year streak of not winning their league, while the Brewers are on a 26 year streak. Of course, the number of teams in baseball has increased from that time, but a higher % of teams still make the playoffs as compared to 1945, 1969, or 1984.
I just like to reply to some of the Cubs fans here who think their franchise is actually a good one (lately it has been and in comparison to the Brewers, but not historically) and throw out a lot of nonsense. That's why they call it a pissing match!
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I'm aware of that. Either way, the Cubs still didn't make the playoffs for 39 years. If you want to say the Brewers are still on a drought of winning their division, that would be correct. It would also be correct to say the Cubs are on a 53 year streak of not winning their league, while the Brewers are on a 26 year streak. Of course, the number of teams in baseball has increased from that time, but a higher % of teams still make the playoffs as compared to 1945, 1969, or 1984.
I just like to reply to some of the Cubs fans here who think their franchise is actually a good one (lately it has been and in comparison to the Brewers, but not historically) and throw out a lot of nonsense. That's why they call it a pissing match!
Careful....if you keep throwing out facts like that you may be accused of supporting your argument around here...or going off on a diatribe.
As you pointed out, making the playoffs before the Brewers existed was a lot more difficult than it is today. Without the Wildcard the Brewers would still be talking about a 26 year playoff draught.....as it is they're the only team to not have won their division in the last 26 years....something the Cubs have done 5 times during that period....again, not something to brag about.
Either team trying to argue over postseason success is worthless.......Brewer fans bragging over losing a first round playoff series 3-1 to the team they finished 7.5 games behind in the division is ridiculous.
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I'll give you that the Cubs have had more success than the Brewers. And the Brewers are just losers.
Couldn't have said it better myself. ;)
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Couldn't have said it better myself. ;)
Wow, good one. You got me.
I could quote one of your posts and then edit it so that it says "I am a raging homosexual because I like the Chicago Cubs" if I really wanted to play that game.
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Careful....if you keep throwing out facts like that you may be accused of supporting your argument around here...or going off on a diatribe.
As you pointed out, making the playoffs before the Brewers existed was a lot more difficult than it is today. Without the Wildcard the Brewers would still be talking about a 26 year playoff draught.....as it is they're the only team to not have won their division in the last 26 years....something the Cubs have done 5 times during that period....again, not something to brag about.
Either team trying to argue over postseason success is worthless.......Brewer fans bragging over losing a first round playoff series 3-1 to the team they finished 7.5 games behind in the division is ridiculous.
I agree 94.
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Wow, good one. You got me.
I could quote one of your posts and then edit it so that it says "I am a raging homosexual because I like the Chicago Cubs" if I really wanted to play that game.
Lighten up Francis. I've never typed the words "raging homosexual" in this or any other forum, so go for it. I used your words. Just having a little fun big guy. (Note the wink)
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Lighten up Francis. I've never typed the words "raging homosexual" in this or any other forum, so go for it. I used your words. Just having a little fun big guy. (Note the wink)
As am I. I never said you said the words "raging homosexual" but i could erase letters until then.
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Milton Bradley bumping an umpire, and getting ejected from a game. ?-(
STUNNING!
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/99492-ump-claims-bradley-bumped-him
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If you watch the replay it does not look like Bradley hit the ump at all. At most their was incidental contact between Bradley's helmet and the ump's hat, but if the contact did happen its not that visible. Furthermore, I don't have a problem with him voicing his frustration. He was pinch hitting and was not going to stay in the game anyway. The call was borderline at best, I think it was a ball but probably too close to take on a 3-2 pitch.
By the way, a week and a half into the season my Brewers in 5th place prediction is holding up. Will it last, who knows but unless they find some quality arms they are going to finsih the season there.
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If you watch the replay it does not look like Bradley hit the ump at all. At most their was incidental contact between Bradley's helmet and the ump's hat, but if the contact did happen its not that visible. Furthermore, I don't have a problem with him voicing his frustration. He was pinch hitting and was not going to stay in the game anyway. The call was borderline at best, I think it was a ball but probably too close to take on a 3-2 pitch.
By the way, a week and a half into the season my Brewers in 5th place prediction is holding up. Will it last, who knows but unless they find some quality arms they are going to finsih the season there.
That little contact was all they need! I was pissed when i saw him take strike 2...and strike 3 was so nasty, it should have been called a strike no matter what. Bradley choked and as a cubs fan, thats not what i want to see from him!
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That little contact was all they need! I was pissed when i saw him take strike 2...and strike 3 was so nasty, it should have been called a strike no matter what. Bradley choked and as a cubs fan, thats not what i want to see from him!
By the way, I just saw the replay again on the Cubs telecast today and there was a little more contact than I initially thought, but it still was incidential. I wouldn't say Bradley necessarily chocked seeing as a player can not be expected to get a hit everytime (or get the run in from 3rd with less than two outs everytime), but nontheless it was a disappointing at bat.
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Bradley choked and as a cubs fan, thats not what i want to see from him!
Anyone else see the oxymoron in this statement?
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http://deadspin.com/5216484/rod-blagojevich-will-tweak-your-lineup (http://deadspin.com/5216484/rod-blagojevich-will-tweak-your-lineup)
If Lou would have listened to Blago I'm sure that the Cubs wouldn't have been swept in the playoffs... oh and Mark Prior would probably be in congress so he wouldnt have to worry about that pesky pitching problem he can't seem to get rid of.
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Speaking of crickets.....awfully quiet around here. I understand.
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Speaking of crickets.....awfully quiet around here. I understand.
Thanks.
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Will it last, who knows but unless they find some quality arms they are going to finsih the season there.
Quality arms? They've gotten 5 quality starts in a row:
Parra (6 inn., 3 hits, 3 runs) - Loss
Looper (6 inn., 3 hits, 3 runs) - Win
Bush (6 inn., 7 hits, 3 runs) - Left with lead, Brewers lose
YoGa (6 inn., 5 hits, 0 runs) - Left with game tied, Brewers lose
Suppan (6 inn., 8 hits, 2 runs) - Win
The bullpen has also been decent (not great, but decent).
I'd argue the Brewers' bats are to blame so far...Braun, Hardy and Fielder have been in slumps since the season started. We're 4 games under .500 with a mediocre pitching staff (according to most) and our top three hitters in slumps. Plus, we're 1-4 in one-run games. We're not being blown out of the water even though we haven't been hitting.
I'd say we're OK for now. Once the bats heat up, we'll rip off a win streak or two.
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On my way to MN i was listening to 620 and heard something very dumb, and I would like to hear if other brewer fans have heard or shared this thought.
The guy called in and talked about trading for Peavy with a deal that involved Prince Fielder. Why would SD take a beefcake that isn't all he is hyped up to be when they have Adrian Gonzalez? It could be just one idiot caller, but i have no clue
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Haha the people who post on si.com's rumor blogs are not very smart. There's a "rumor" that the Brewers will be tempted to make a run for Peavy towards the deadline (with no sources, no quotes, nothing, just saying they could use him and that Melvin has shown he will spend money and make the big deal...no kidding? I hear the Brewers are trying to trade for Harden. They could use a top end starter, and Melvin has proved he will pull a deal even though he is in a small market.)
Some posters are talking about Prince Fielder for Jake Peavy straight up. If we could get that, and Melvin did not go through on it, I'd go and kill him myself. Not only will Prince Fielder not get us a top end starter from anywhere, but the Padres also have Gonzolez at first. He's better than Prince. That's the 1 spot in their lineup that doesn't need an offensive upgrade. They're talking about how he doesn't just hit for power, he takes walks and is a great overall hitter. Really? From what I've seen, he hits solo homeruns or strikes out. Once in a while he'll walk. He has all of 1 clutch hit in his career. Whenever Braun does something before him, it's a guaranteed strikeout. Not to mention his defense is awful, and he's not becoming any thinner/taller or more athletic.
I would die for a Prince trade that involved a top end starter, but who would want that? Hell I'd trade him for a guy like Bronson Arroyo.
I'm one who doesn't want a Peavy trade. That would mean we'd be giving up either JJ or Escobar. I don't want to give up another top prospect, or our 2nd most consistent player, and best defensive infielder. I would also love for Escobar to be called up, start him at SS, and move JJ over to 3B. If the Brewers are about winning then Bill Hall should not be playing. He had 1 good year, and other than that has been awful. Has he taken a pitch yet this year? I don't care that he's getting paid. He can get paid and watch from the bench. If Escobar is not better than Bill Hall right now then Escobar is completely overrated and I take back these comments, but I doubt that is the case. I want to win baseball games, not satisfy the players we play the most.
Rob, we share the same feelings on that subject. I wrote this ^^^ a couple weeks ago.
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Thanks wadesworld. Yeah I almost crashed I was laughing so hard at the trade idea!
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Peavy for Prince is probably the most desired option right now, however it's still very unlikely. The only highlight is that Peavy has years left on his deal. I think there is enough upside for prince that those two players could be the only one given up for Jake. What I think is more likely is Prince to an AL team, the guy has DH in his future, maybe a contending team will make a move for him. I'm all for bringing Mat Gamel up and placing him at 1st when prince is gone. I don't think we lose a lot because of it.
It is time time to let Bill Hall Wins Ball Games on the bench and move JJ to 3rd, problem is JJ won't move to third, but he doesn't want to leave Milwaukee...conundrum
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Peavy for Prince is probably the most desired option right now, however it's still very unlikely. The only highlight is that Peavy has years left on his deal. I think there is enough upside for prince that those two players could be the only one given up for Jake. What I think is more likely is Prince to an AL team, the guy has DH in his future, maybe a contending team will make a move for him. I'm all for bringing Mat Gamel up and placing him at 1st when prince is gone. I don't think we lose a lot because of it.
It is time time to let Bill Hall Wins Ball Games on the bench and move JJ to 3rd, problem is JJ won't move to third, but he doesn't want to leave Milwaukee...conundrum
I understand the rationale behind moving JJ to 3rd (Escobar in the minors), but Hardy was an All-Star at SS last year, and is one of the top 2-3 at his position in the NL. It doesn't matter who's behind him. You don't make that move.
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I understand the rationale behind moving JJ to 3rd (Escobar in the minors), but Hardy was an All-Star at SS last year, and is one of the top 2-3 at his position in the NL. It doesn't matter who's behind him. You don't make that move.
I love JJ, but I'm not sold on that. Any time before this year that he wasn't batting 2nd he's been awful offensively. And now he's batting 5 and is awful offensively. Quiet honestly, I think Ryan Braun made him (offensively). He got pitches to hit in front of Braun, and now without Braun protecting him he can't do anything on offense. Also, I HEAR Escobar is already Gold Glove caliber at SS (haven't seen him play and he's in the Minors, so who knows?). JJ is very good defensively but he doesn't have the greatest range at SS. That's why at 3rd he'd be a stud. He doesn't need the range, but he makes every play where he gets to the ball and has a cannon of an arm. As long as he's batting in front of Braun I like JJ, but outside of that spot he's not nearly as good.
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I love JJ, but I'm not sold on that. Any time before this year that he wasn't batting 2nd he's been awful offensively. And now he's batting 5 and is awful offensively. Quiet honestly, I think Ryan Braun made him (offensively). He got pitches to hit in front of Braun, and now without Braun protecting him he can't do anything on offense. Also, I HEAR Escobar is already Gold Glove caliber at SS (haven't seen him play and he's in the Minors, so who knows?). JJ is very good defensively but he doesn't have the greatest range at SS. That's why at 3rd he'd be a stud. He doesn't need the range, but he makes every play where he gets to the ball and has a cannon of an arm. As long as he's batting in front of Braun I like JJ, but outside of that spot he's not nearly as good.
the only problem is he doesnt want to play 3rd. I really think it will be a matter of top brass at the Brewers saying to JJ that its either third base here or SS somewhere else, and I think he likes Milwaukee better than his IF position since he pleaded with Melvin not to trade him this past winter
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What's Alfonso Soriano swinging at?
And my Cardinals division champs is looking pretty good based on their matchups with the Cubs so far.
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What's Alfonso Soriano swinging at?
And my Cardinals division champs is looking pretty good based on their matchups with the Cubs so far.
1) Soriano is leading the NL in homeruns so he can continue to swing at whatever he's like.
2) Cubs/Cards series is tied at 3 games a piece.
3) Just wait for the Cubs to get healthy. Brewers will fall into place now that Hoffman is back. Cubs will do likewise.
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By the way, a week and a half into the season my Brewers in 5th place prediction is holding up. Will it last, who knows but unless they find some quality arms they are going to finsih the season there.
Hey marquette09, could you please update me on the NL Central standings and your 5th place prediction for the Brewers and how that is doing? You used to give us daily updates on that prediction. The Cubs seem to now be below the Brewers in the standings. I'm not saying that will be the case at the end of the season, but why did you stop giving us those daily updates on how your Brewers 5th place prediction is working out all of a sudden?
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wadesworld is right, i've given up on the season. Lets start throwing games and playing for a draft pick.
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wadesworld is right, i've given up on the season. Lets start throwing games and playing for a draft pick.
Like I said, I'm not saying I expect the standings to be the same at the end of the season, but I got used to my daily updates of marquette90's 5th place prediction for the Brewers, and now I'm wondering where they are.
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Hell's Bell's is nice to hear! Two in a row.
You just have a sense that the team really respects and has confidence in Hoffman this year rather than the 10 Million Dollar dead fish in Gagne (not sure what dead fish is supposed to mean, but it's not good).
Also with Hoffman back the rest of the pen realizes their role and knows what is expected out of them, just get the lead to the 9th.
Oh, watching Cubs/Brewers series earlier this year and seeing the fat Cubs dude falling into the field was classic idiocy.
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Oh, watching Cubs/Brewers series earlier this year and seeing the fat Cubs dude falling into the field was classic idiocy.
Haha that was absolutely hilarious, but I do have to say, unfortunately, that the guy was not just sloppy drunk. I was sitting 4 seats away from him and he stepped into the aisle where there was a gate that opens up to the field and it was unlocked when it should not have been, so as he reached over to catch the ball it flew open, which he clearly was not expecting.
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Like I said, I'm not saying I expect the standings to be the same at the end of the season, but I got used to my daily updates of marquette90's 5th place prediction for the Brewers, and now I'm wondering where they are.
Marquette09 made the prediction on March 27. On April 17, he noted that his prediction was holding up. That is one update over the course of the entire month. Sure glad we have you back in the fold with this thread wade.
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Sure glad we have you back in the fold with this thread wade.
You are? GREAT! I'm glad to be back!
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Ari, just enjoy the Brewers 5th place finis this season. Good luck winning without any pitching. Sure will be embarrassing for you and your crew this year when the Reds finish ahead of you
I like to make fun of Marquette09 as much as the next guy, and any opportunity to do it in a public sphere is awesome so:
Currently the brewers are in 2nd place in the division, and the Cubs have fallen to 5th. Brewers are +2 in the run differential, while the cubs are -7. I know there is a lot of baseball to play and Cubs fans will have any number of excuses but I want people to be reminded of Marquette09's prediction throughout the year until the final game of the season and the culmination of his wrongness.
Thank you
-ed spell check-
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I guess my presence has been requested on this thread. Wadesworld, I made the prediction before the season and then posted it ONE other time during the second week of the season (thanks for your help drew) . Yes, right now the Cubs are in 5th and the Brewers are TIED for second but let's remember one thing, its May 1st, we got a long way to go and its not how you start but rather how you finish. The Cubs are not hitting right now (or pitching that well as a matter of fact) but I can guaratnee you that the Cubs make the playoffs this year which means we finish first or second in the division, and just so all the Brewers fans know thier is not a snowballs chance in hell the Crew finishes ahead of the Cubs or Cards this year so no playoffs for them.
Could the Crew finish third? Seems plausible but for now I will stand behind my 5th place prediction.
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Yes, right now the Cubs are in 5th and the Brewers are TIED for second but let's remember one thing, its May 1st, we got a long way to go and its not how you start but rather how you finish.
It was even earlier when you first updated us on that prediction...
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just so all the Brewers fans know thier is not a snowballs chance in hell the Crew finishes ahead of the Cubs or Cards this year so no playoffs for them.
Could the Crew finish third? Seems plausible but for now I will stand behind my 5th place prediction.
Perhaps it may be my optimism but I do not know how you can make that claim! We basically have the same team that started the year as last year.
So we lost Sheets, but Yo is healthy. And you can ask most Brewer fans that although Sheets is a wiz at times, he will either 1) get injured or 2) lose steam down the stretch (i.e. last year).
Yeah we do not have C.C. but we didn't get him until the A.S. Break, and we were doing well before then.
The lineup is pretty much the same except one year older. And at this point in time, one year older is a good thing.
I guess I shouldn't get upset at you MU09, you are a Cub fan so I should expect it from you, placing opinions without analyzing and blaming your failure to make the Series on a goat or a fan that tried to catch a foul ball right in front of him rather than looking at your team and how they blew up the rest of that inning and lost their composure and how THEY ARE JUST NOT THAT GOOD!
So go have another Old Style and pee in a cup in the bleachers. :)
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I guess I shouldn't get upset at you MU09, you are a Cub fan so I should expect it from you, placing opinions without analyzing and blaming your failure to make the Series on a goat or a fan that tried to catch a foul ball right in front of him rather than looking at your team and how they blew up the rest of that inning and lost their composure and how THEY ARE JUST NOT THAT GOOD!
I don't understand your argument here. I justified my claim that the Brewers would finish in 5th based on their lack of pitching. So far, I will admit, the staff has done a good job most impressively Yo. However I still feel that the Brewers do not have the arms to finish either ahead of the Cards or Cubs in the division (unless one of those two teams experience significant injuries). Yes your team got off to a good start last year but you have to admit that their is no way the Crew makes the playoffs last year without CC, and he ain't coming back this year.
Furthermore I do not understand your little rant about our failure to make the series on the goat. I'm confused by your use of the verb ARE. In your rant you talk about the 03 team in the past tense but then transfer to the present tense with "are". The problem with this is that their are only two players on the Cubs current roster, Z and Aramis that were on the 03 team. So if your making refrence to the 03 team yeah, THEY BLEW IT. IT WAS NOT BARTMANS fault. Mark Prior walked Luis Castillo and Alex Gonzalez make a huge error. THAT IS WHY WE LOST. Now if your claim is about the current team I respectfully disagree. Looking at the 08 stats, the CUBS were first in hitting and 3rd in pitching in the NL(using runs scored and ERA), which is a pretty good combo. The team this year is off to a slow start, similarly to 07, but I have a feeling they will be back up near the top of the league in pitching and hitting by the end of the season. Winning in the playoffs, that a whole different can of worms but I can guaratnee you we will be there.
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I don't understand your argument here. I justified my claim that the Brewers would finish in 5th based on their lack of pitching. So far, I will admit, the staff has done a good job most impressively Yo. However I still feel that the Brewers do not have the arms to finish either ahead of the Cards or Cubs in the division (unless one of those two teams experience significant injuries). Yes your team got off to a good start last year but you have to admit that their is no way the Crew makes the playoffs last year without CC, and he ain't coming back this year.
Furthermore I do not understand your little rant about our failure to make the series on the goat. I'm confused by your use of the verb ARE. In your rant you talk about the 03 team in the past tense but then transfer to the present tense with "are". The problem with this is that their are only two players on the Cubs current roster, Z and Aramis that were on the 03 team. So if your making refrence to the 03 team yeah, THEY BLEW IT. IT WAS NOT BARTMANS fault. Mark Prior walked Luis Castillo and Alex Gonzalez make a huge error. THAT IS WHY WE LOST. Now if your claim is about the current team I respectfully disagree. Looking at the 08 stats, the CUBS were first in hitting and 3rd in pitching in the NL(using runs scored and ERA), which is a pretty good combo. The team this year is off to a slow start, similarly to 07, but I have a feeling they will be back up near the top of the league in pitching and hitting by the end of the season. Winning in the playoffs, that a whole different can of worms but I can guaratnee you we will be there.
I was saying that it is outlandish to think that with the Brewers, returning their starters --plus another year of development for Parra (who pitched real well tonight), have no arms. You are right to say that there is no way that they would have made the playoff push without the added arm, but you, more often than not, get the added arm down the stretch--which we could do this year with some of the young talent to trade if that is the route we want to take.
For all the crap I gave Melvin picking up Looper, he does know the Central and it is logical to assume he will finish around 11-9 if not better. True, we do not have the big name arms, Z, Haren, etc. but we have quality arms that will make quality starts and Yo who has perennial all-star stuff and is showing it this year.
You may be right that we won't make the playoffs, I would be a bit surprised if we do, but it wouldn't be out of nowhere. If the batters can start to produce we will remain above .500 for the year, which is ideal for an August-September rush (i.e. Rockies).
I will thank you for pointing out my error in regards to '08. The Cubs were really good. However, instead of with the Brewers and another year older working better for them and their progression, the Cubs another year older is a negative--you can see it already with D-Lee. What I was referring to in the "JUST ARE NOT THAT GOOD" was the general I have heard from Cubs fans during the past 10 years (albeit uneducated ones--which you are not) that the Cubs are much better than their talent displays. The Cubs are a solid team this year and should be at the top of the division, but I do not believe it will be only a two team race for the NL Central Crown. I just think to write off the Crew this early in the season is absurd--just as it is to say that D-Lee will have an Average of .205 in August--because they do have decent arms and a great arm in Yo (I suppose I am opposing your viewpoint on the inadequacy of the Brewers staff).
Tough loss today for the Crew, however.
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I was saying that it is outlandish to think that with the Brewers, returning their starters --plus another year of development for Parra (who pitched real well tonight), have no arms. You are right to say that there is no way that they would have made the playoff push without the added arm, but you, more often than not, get the added arm down the stretch--which we could do this year with some of the young talent to trade if that is the route we want to take.
For all the crap I gave Melvin picking up Looper, he does know the Central and it is logical to assume he will finish around 11-9 if not better. True, we do not have the big name arms, Z, Haren, etc. but we have quality arms that will make quality starts and Yo who has perennial all-star stuff and is showing it this year.
You may be right that we won't make the playoffs, I would be a bit surprised if we do, but it wouldn't be out of nowhere. If the batters can start to produce we will remain above .500 for the year, which is ideal for an August-September rush (i.e. Rockies).
I will thank you for pointing out my error in regards to '08. The Cubs were really good. However, instead of with the Brewers and another year older working better for them and their progression, the Cubs another year older is a negative--you can see it already with D-Lee. What I was referring to in the "JUST ARE NOT THAT GOOD" was the general I have heard from Cubs fans during the past 10 years (albeit uneducated ones--which you are not) that the Cubs are much better than their talent displays. The Cubs are a solid team this year and should be at the top of the division, but I do not believe it will be only a two team race for the NL Central Crown. I just think to write off the Crew this early in the season is absurd--just as it is to say that D-Lee will have an Average of .205 in August--because they do have decent arms and a great arm in Yo (I suppose I am opposing your viewpoint on the inadequacy of the Brewers staff).
Tough loss today for the Crew, however.
Solid post. I agree with your age argument. The Cubs age could be a factor especially if we continue to have injury after injury, however, as you noted we do have the resources to go out and get another arm or bat in July. And as I said in a post earlier today I have been somewhat impressed with the brewers staff this season, Mainly Yo but you could also throw Looper into that mix as well.
It certainly will be interesting to see how the rest of the season works out, especially in the NL central. We know the Cubs and Cards will be up there, the Crew could potentially make a run and the Astros will most likley make a run like they always do in August.
And nice win for the Cubs today
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The problem with this is that their are only two players on the Cubs current roster, Z and Aramis that were on the 03 team. So if your making refrence to the 03 team yeah, THEY BLEW IT. IT WAS NOT BARTMANS fault. Mark Prior walked Luis Castillo and Alex Gonzalez make a huge error. THAT IS WHY WE LOST.
Agreed MU09.
If you actually asked Cubs fans, the vast majority would blame Alex Gonzalez for not turning the double play that would have had the Cubs out of the inning with the lead.
Bartman is just a figure the media and Cubs haters continue to bring up.
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Agreed MU09.
If you actually asked Cubs fans, the vast majority would blame Alex Gonzalez for not turning the double play that would have had the Cubs out of the inning with the lead.
Bartman is just a figure the media and Cubs haters continue to bring up.
+1
i haven't heard a cubs fan speak ill of bartman in years but he gets brought up on PTI and around the horn every couple months.
And it is silly to say that the brewers will finish 5th. They are in the driver's seat for a fourth place finish.
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They are in the driver's seat for a fourth place finish.
Such confidence after your top pitcher pulls his 'gine plodding to first base.
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I really hope that this thread culminates in all of us coming together over our mutual hatred of the Cards. Fracking Cards >:(
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I really hope that this thread culminates in all of us coming together over our mutual hatred of the Cards. Fracking Cards >:(
If you haven't noticed, this thread culminates into nothing.
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If you haven't noticed, this thread culminates into nothing.
^^^^ The wisest post in 51 pages.
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I really hope that this thread culminates in all of us coming together over our mutual hatred of the Cards. Fracking Cards >:(
Hey I made a jab at the Cardinals in the second post of the entire thread.
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Z has hit the 15 day DL for the first time this year.... I'm hearing crumbling sounds
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Does "Sweet Lou" REALLY have a Twitter?
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Z has hit the 15 day DL for the first time this year.... I'm hearing crumbling sounds
Haha wow. You realize its a hamstring and not his arm?
The Cubs have had nearly every key player miss significant time this season (Soto, Ramirez, Lee, Bradley, Zambrano, Marmol) and they are still ahead of the Brewers.
Now that Soto, Ramirez, Lee, and Bradley are back I'd say they are actually getting stronger if anything.
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Now that Theriot found his stroke, I'm not too worried.
The best move Lou has made since he was here is moving D Lee to 4 or 5 hole...the cubs will be a much better offensive team!
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Z has hit the 15 day DL for the first time this year.... I'm hearing crumbling sounds
For the first time this year? How often do you think Zambrano has been on the DL?
I think the crumbling sounds you are hearing are the lingering structural issues with Ryan Braun's back. No MRI results for an injury since March? Sounds like something that could last all season.
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For the first time this year? How often do you think Zambrano has been on the DL?
I think the crumbling sounds you are hearing are the lingering structural issues with Ryan Braun's back. No MRI results for an injury since March? Sounds like something that could last all season.
"lingering structural issues" would show up on an MRI. Just sayin'.
Also, regarding the "it's his hamstring, not his arm" comment: see Sheets, Ben, Wood, Kerry, and Prior, Mark (of course, Z doesn't have nearly the injury history of those 3, but again, just sayin'.)
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I think the crumbling sounds you are hearing are the lingering structural issues with Ryan Braun's back. No MRI results for an injury since March? Sounds like something that could last all season.
HAH and he showed up late to the game because of that MRI. That really seemed to hamper him. Pinch hit 2 RBI double to tie the game in the 8th.
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Lingering structural issues was a bad choice of words. What I'm saying is something is wrong, and they can't find it. A nagging injury all season wouldn't be optimal.
I'm not too worried about Z. I'm actually willing to make a friendly wager than Randy Wells doesn't lose on Friday.
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As this is a pissing match, I'm guessing several of you who signed up for peeyourpantsforthebrewers.com did not piss yourselves.
Please proceed.
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Never heard of that. I do know we put up 9 runs on Bronson Arroyo tonight before he got an out in the 2nd. And that we're ahead of the Cubs.
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I do know we put up 9 runs on Bronson Arroyo tonight before he got an out in the 2nd.
Looks like someone has a Brewer Classic for FSN in the Winter!
Other favorites:
- Bill Hall hits homerun with pink bat
- Brewers hit 4 homeruns in a row
- Brewers win on opening day
- Non-trying Cubs throw a different pitcher each inning and Brewers go to playoffs
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talking about the brewers have you been watching the brewer games on FSN the airtran commercials they are hilarious
:D :D :D
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Looks like someone has a Brewer Classic for FSN in the Winter!
Other favorites:
- Bill Hall hits homerun with pink bat
- Brewers hit 4 homeruns in a row
- Brewers win on opening day
- Non-trying Cubs throw a different pitcher each inning and Brewers go to playoffs
Oh really? Nice cover up... apparently that non-trying thing becomes a habit that carries over into the playoffs. Might be smart of Lou to try to, er, "try" if they've locked up a playoff spot.
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Sounds as if D Lee is going to the DL...THANK GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It looks as if The Hoff will finally get his starts at first and show that D Lee should be ran out of town by the end of the year!
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Looks like someone has a Brewer Classic for FSN in the Winter!
Other favorites:
- Bill Hall hits homerun with pink bat
- Brewers hit 4 homeruns in a row
- Brewers win on opening day
- Non-trying Cubs throw a different pitcher each inning and Brewers go to playoffs
Yup just had to be rested for when Man Ram came to town and broke all of the Cubbie fans hearts again. Shucks
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You mean the Man Ram that is a cheater?
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You mean the Man Ram that is a cheater?
Just like your beloved Scammin' Sammy?
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Just like your beloved Scammin' Sammy?
Beloved? I'm pretty sure the knowledgeable Cub fan base wanted Sammy gone.
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Beloved? I'm pretty sure the knowledgeable Cub fan base wanted Sammy gone.
At what point in time did they want him gone? Post cork or post steroids?
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Beloved? I'm pretty sure the knowledgeable Cub fan base wanted Sammy gone.
Oh yeah... I am sure the fan base wanted Sammy Sosa gone... early 2000's nothing but Sosa jerseys littered the stadium....
That is the same as right now if someone said the Packer fan base wanted Favre gone in the late 90's
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Oh yeah... I am sure the fan base wanted Sammy Sosa gone... early 2000's nothing but Sosa jerseys littered the stadium....
That is the same as right now if someone said the Packer fan base wanted Favre gone in the late 90's
Keynote knowledgeable (robmufan is a big Sosa fan). Sammy Sosa was terrible in the clubhouse, Sosa was terrible in the clutch. Sosa feuded with Grace since 1997, possibly even earlier. Since the Grace/Sosa problems were leaked out, I wanted him gone.
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Keynote knowledgeable (robmufan is a big Sosa fan). Sammy Sosa was terrible in the clubhouse, Sosa was terrible in the clutch. Sosa feuded with Grace since 1997, possibly even earlier. Since the Grace/Sosa problems were leaked out, I wanted him gone.
Give me a break. You wanted him gone when he was leading your team to the playoffs, picking up the MVP honor, and rejuvenating baseball back in 1998? Wow, your hindsight is much better than 20-20!
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Give me a break. You wanted him gone when he was leading your team to the playoffs, picking up the MVP honor, and rejuvenating baseball back in 1998? Wow, your hindsight is much better than 20-20!
When it's publicly known that Sammy Sosa disrespects a clubhouse veteran, a team captain and your personal favorite player, it's an easy decision to make.
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When it's publicly known that Sammy Sosa disrespects a clubhouse veteran, a team captain and your personal favorite player, it's an easy decision to make.
Steroids aside, if you want to get rid of by far your best player because he got in a little scuffle with a 1st baseman who, although he is a pretty good player himself, can't carry the other guy's jock at that point in time; I have to question if you want to cheer for a winning team or cheer for a team of "good guys".
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Steroids aside, if you want to get rid of by far your best player because he got in a little scuffle with a 1st baseman who, although he is a pretty good player himself, can't carry the other guy's jock at that point in time; I have to question if you want to cheer for a winning team or cheer for a team of "good guys".
A little scuffle? You might want to educated yourself some more.
Mark Grace and Sosa were completely different players. I'd take Grace's leadership and .400 OBP for the Cubs over his career rather than Sosa's 160 strikeout seasons and constant deterioration of the clubhouse.
It is known that Sammy Sosa killed morale in the clubhouse. It's a 162 game season, you can't have it.
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A little scuffle? You might want to educated]/b] yourself some more.
lol @ the irony :p
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A little scuffle? You might want to educated yourself some more.
Mark Grace and Sosa were completely different players. I'd take Grace's leadership and .400 OBP for the Cubs over his career rather than Sosa's 160 strikeout seasons and constant deterioration of the clubhouse.
It is known that Sammy Sosa killed morale in the clubhouse. It's a 162 game season, you can't have it.
Haha, keep telling yourself that.
If you would take an aging Mark Grace over one of the best players in the league for that 5-6 year period then I got some land I'd like to sell you.
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HAHAHAHAHAHA this cheating talk about the cubs makes me laugh...
Maybe jmayer you should check the Brewers for cheaters. They signed not 1 but 2 pitchers that were caught for 'roids. Remember Turnbow got busted as an Angel!
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HAHAHAHAHAHA this cheating talk about the cubs makes me laugh...
Maybe jmayer you should check the Brewers for cheaters. They signed not 1 but 2 pitchers that were caught for 'roids. Remember Turnbow got busted as an Angel!
Make that three. Turnbow, Mota, and Gagne.
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Make that three. Turnbow, Mota, and Gagne.
Wait...baseball players used steriods :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
I still enjoy the combo of 'roids and a corked bat. Seriously, why didn't Sosa go out there and use a fungo?
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Come on folks, we have a Brew Crew vs. Cubbies series this weekend up in Milwaukee. Who's going?
I'll be there with a bus load of people (including a few MU grads) tonight (Friday, 6:05 start). We're drinking at SinBin at 38th and National before and after the game if you're looking for good times that are close to the stadium! :)
The Brewers were really on a tear there until a close loss last night to the Reds. With the Brewer-Killer Zambranao being out I'm interested to see how the rest of the Cubbies pitching staff can handle the crew.
Remember. Don't whack our weiner! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3V9kJw-kWQ8
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Sorry for the double post:
I was just looking at tonights game. The Cubs have a relatively unknown pitcher that they just brought up from the minors in Randy Wells: http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/players/playerpage/584969
We'll see how this kid throws tonight, and I don't envy him if the Brewer's bats are swinging like they were 2 nights ago :)
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Come on folks, we have a Brew Crew vs. Cubbies series this weekend up in Milwaukee. Who's going?
I'll be there with a bus load of people (including a few MU grads) tonight (Friday, 6:05 start). We're drinking at SinBin at 38th and National before and after the game if you're looking for good times that are close to the stadium! :)
Jealousy is an ugly thing for me.
Ohh payday ohh payday where art thou payday,
theres a game today, payday, there's a game today
And fat Cubs fans tumbling onto the field!
Ohh Payday ohh payday were you here today
So I could point and laugh
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Wait...wha?
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Oops
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By the way, a week and a half into the season my Brewers in 5th place prediction is holding up. Will it last, who knows but unless they find some quality arms they are going to finsih the season there.
By the way, the lack of "quality arms" in our starting rotation has given your Scrubs an awful hard time the last 2 nights. We scored 133% of the runs you have scored on our starters in ONE INNING tonight. But let me guess, it's because your team is not healthy, and we should just wait until you are. Alright, I will wait...and wait...and wait. That's the problem with having Lee, Soriano, Ramirez, Zambrano, and Harden all on 1 team. Between them there are at least 8 trips to the DL in a year. And they're not getting any younger.
Also, when will teams start to realize that plunking Braun will only result in him doing something big the next time he comes up to bat. Not to mention, I understand throwing at somebody in certain circumstances, but to throw at someone's HEAD?! You just don't do that. I'm pretty glad Braun just gave Dumpster a nice head nod after he hammered that pitch, a little thank you for throwing at him last time up. Now, let me guess the excuses as to why he threw at Braun, and that it wasn't meant to hit his head.
1) It was unintentional. Really? A FASTBALL got away from him so bad that it hit him in the head? Doubtful.
2) He stared down his home run last night after winning the game, and tore Ramirez's shoulder up because he lined the hell out of the ball on that hit. Correct. I knew he would get plunked tonight. But again, in the HEAD?!
3) He went down to bunt or it wouldn't have hit him in the head. He did, but it was a drag bunt, so Dumpster didn't see him go down for it before he located the pitch. Braun also tried getting out of the way, standing back up, and got hit in the head at the same point he would have had his head had he been in his regular batting stance.
But again, keep plunking the man. Weird.
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Ryan Braun is man.
Who in Gods name are the Cubs building there team around?
A-Shoulder, err A-Ram...clearly not D-Lee...Harden? Z? This team is a mess. And blah blah about injuries all you want, when your squad is filled with dudes that are injury-prone, it's no excuse.
But you have that ND D-Bag Jeff Samardzija, so you have that going for you.
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Did anybody see the #1 Web Gem on Baseball Tonight? Melvin Mora's diving catch on a liner to his right at third? That was a nice play. If that was Aramis Ramirez he would have separated his shoulder/torn his rotator cuff.
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Haha reading northsidebaseball.com's game thread from yesterday makes me laugh really hard. It gives a perfect example as to why I can't stand Scrubs fans. They cry for about 4 innings that Ryan Braun acted about getting hit and it really hit his bat. REALLY?! I could see thinking it hit his bat while it was live, but after seeing the replay multiple times (which surely they did if they were watching the game) it CLEARLY hit his head, yet they STILL insist he just acted! HAHA! SO IGNORANT! If only they could just admit that they can't stand the fact that the Brewers have BY FAR the best player in the series, and the 2nd best player in the NL Central, and they can't stand that he TORCHES them. Why would he PRETEND to get hit by a pitch? He would have gone yard on the next pitch had he gotten the chance to do that instead of just getting 1 base! Not to mention, don't Scrubs fans realize that the sound of a ball hitting a helmet is MUCH different than the sound of a ball hitting a helmet?! Wouldn't the umpire know based on sound alone?! HAHA! PHENOMENAL!
And then they got pissed that he was showboating by looking at Dumpster after he went yard in his next at bat. Really? ANYBODY would have. He just threw at his HEAD and then Braun went yard, of course he's going to look back at Dumpster. Should he have just shook his hand and thanked him for throwing a baseball 95 mph at his head? I think ANYBODY would be pissed about that and give him a "gotcha" look after going yard.
Sorry, I'm just trying to get ANYTHING from Scrubs fans right now. It's awfully quiet from them.
15-4 in the last 19. Hottest team in baseball. Most quality starts in the MLB by our starters. But our starters are horrible, right?
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I'm obviously very happy about the standings right now (Cards 1st, Crew 2nd) but I'm not about to start counting any chickens yet especially when a team as talented (albeit pretty banged up right now) is lurking only a few games back.
As for the plunking, I think Dempster meant to hit him but prolly not in the head. Braun was upset for a reason but in my mind I think he did a little bit too much staring/strutting on the homer for my taste. I know he's still a young player and still has some maturing to do but doing crap like that makes the Crew looks classless and other players/managers don't forget stuff like that quickly.
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Hopefully we can get the sweep today...We'll see which Suppan shows up.
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Did anybody see the #1 Web Gem on Baseball Tonight? Melvin Mora's diving catch on a liner to his right at third? That was a nice play. If that was Aramis Ramirez he would have separated his shoulder/torn his rotator cuff.
Classy. I honestly cannot believe the amount of fun Brewers fans in this thread have in Cubs players getting injured. It's one thing to talk trash after beating the Cubs but all this enjoyment out of players getting injured is absolute garbage.
Also, if people actually think Braun got hit in the head by Dempster they need an eye exam immediately. Watch the replay. It was obvious that it hit his bat. Nobody bounces back up that quick after taking a ball to the head like that...even if they're ok.
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Braun the 2nd best player in the division? I guess if baseball was solely based off of offense.
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Braun the 2nd best player in the division? I guess if baseball was solely based off of offense.
No rational person could make the case that there is anybody else in the division better than Braun besides Pujols.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.shtml#NLmvp (http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.shtml#NLmvp)
Braun does misjudge some balls but he definitely isn't a horrible defender as you seem to think. You don't lead the NL in putouts for leftfielders or have a range factor of 1.95 if you're terrible in the field.
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Braun the 2nd best player in the division? I guess if baseball was solely based off of offense.
Please tell me this is a joke. Please name me 2 better players. Is Albert Pujols not the best player in the division because he plays first base, so he must not be a great defensive player? I can't even think of anybody who comes close to being as good as Pujols and Braun (and Pujols is far better than Braun).
And as far as did Braun get hit, I have 3 questions.
1. Have you heard a baseball hit a bat?
2. Have you heard a baseball hit a helmet?
3. Do those things sound the same at all, or even close to similar?
Would an umpire really mess that up? You can tell based on sound alone, even if you can't tell by a replay or live. And regardless, you don't throw at a guy's head. If it's at his ribs nobody has a problem, but you just don't throw at a guys head no matter how much you dislike him.
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No rational person could make the case that there is anybody else in the division better than Braun besides Pujols.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.shtml#NLmvp (http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_2008.shtml#NLmvp)
Braun does misjudge some balls but he definitely isn't a horrible defender as you seem to think. You don't lead the NL in putouts for leftfielders or have a range factor of 1.95 if you're terrible in the field.
Good find. It'll be interesting to see what kind of biased opinion they will use to reply to your facts.
By the way, notice, PTM, the NL MVP voting. I see 1 NL Central player ahead of Ryan Braun. Weird.
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Braun the 2nd best player in the division? I guess if baseball was solely based off of offense.
Braun Errors since season's start of 2008= 0
2008 Revised Zone Rating=6th
Out of Zone=1st*
(According to the Hardball times)
*http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=fielding&linesToDisplay=50&qual_filter=1&season_filter%5B0%5D=2008&league_filter%5B0%5D=All&pos_filter%5B0%5D=7&Submit=Submit&orderBy=outs_out_of_zone&direction=DESC&page=1 (http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=fielding&linesToDisplay=50&qual_filter=1&season_filter%5B0%5D=2008&league_filter%5B0%5D=All&pos_filter%5B0%5D=7&Submit=Submit&orderBy=outs_out_of_zone&direction=DESC&page=1)
For his position at LF, potential gold glove.
So, yeah, he's the real deal and definitely up there for 2nd best player in division.
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Braun gets MVP votes because is offense is sooooooo good it makes up for his crappy defense. Please don't argue that Braun is a good defender because hes not.
I'll freely admit he is one of the best hitters in the Majors not just the NL. I would take him on the Cubs in a second. But I also would never argue that he is a good defender. Even in a pissing match.
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Seriously also please stop bringing up the no errors.
I've seen Braun fall down and miss the ball.
I've seen Braun misread the ball and have it go over his head.
I've seen Braun dive and not touch the ball and have it bounce to the wall.
None of these count as errors, however, they all are the marks of a crappy fielder.
Please stick to bragging about his offense. Please.
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Seriously also please stop bringing up the no errors.
I've seen Braun fall down and miss the ball.
I've seen Braun misread the ball and have it go over his head.
I've seen Braun dive and not touch the ball and have it bounce to the wall.
None of these count as errors, however, they all are the marks of a crappy fielder.
Please stick to bragging about his offense. Please.
Will you argue that he's better than Sori? Because he is...
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Braun gets MVP votes because is offense is sooooooo good it makes up for his crappy defense. Please don't argue that Braun is a good defender because hes not.
I'll freely admit he is one of the best hitters in the Majors not just the NL. I would take him on the Cubs in a second. But I also would never argue that he is a good defender. Even in a pissing match.
Seriously also please stop bringing up the no errors.
I've seen Braun fall down and miss the ball.
I've seen Braun misread the ball and have it go over his head.
I've seen Braun dive and not touch the ball and have it bounce to the wall.
None of these count as errors, however, they all are the marks of a crappy fielder.
Please stick to bragging about his offense. Please.
For his position at LF he is good. Stats don't lie.
Yeah, everyone misjudges once in awhile, but look at the percentages. I am not saying he is great, but to say he is not a good defender would be a fallacy on your behalf.
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And as far as did Braun get hit, I have 3 questions.
1. Have you heard a baseball hit a bat?
2. Have you heard a baseball hit a helmet?
3. Do those things sound the same at all, or even close to similar?
Would an umpire really mess that up? You can tell based on sound alone, even if you can't tell by a replay or live. And regardless, you don't throw at a guy's head. If it's at his ribs nobody has a problem, but you just don't throw at a guys head no matter how much you dislike him.
If you watch this and think the ball hit Braun in the head, then you have bigger problems to worry about other than Brewers/Cubs BS:
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jjaayy112233/videos/4/
How the umpire missed it is amazing.
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Watch the 2nd time they show it, the close up. It's pretty tough to tell if it hits him truly. It looks like it glances off of the top of his helmet and redirects slightly up before hitting the bat. Just keep clicking back to the 12 second mark until it hits him and watch the helmet over and over, and then the path of the ball. Really, you can't tell. I'll take the umpire's hearing, hoping that he knows the sound of the bat hitting the ball and hearing something different.
And again, you don't throw at a guy's head. Regardless of whether or not it actually hit him.
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0 errors is a tough fact to argue
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The ball doesn't even hit Braun. It should have been a foul ball.
Ken Macha wants Dempster suspended and told Bob Watson to watch the video. Crybaby.
Braun better get used to getting drilled the way he watches his homeruns. Soriano gets drilled after he watches his homeruns but he and his manager don't cry like a girl afterwards.
And I still can't believe people are bringing up Braun's defense.
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The ball doesn't even hit Braun. It should have been a foul ball.
Ken Macha wants Dempster suspended and told Bob Watson to watch the video. Crybaby.
Braun better get used to getting drilled the way he watches his homeruns. Soriano gets drilled after he watches his homeruns but he and his manager don't cry like a girl afterwards.
And I still can't believe people are bringing up Braun's defense.
Where does Soriano get drilled? Seriously. Like I've said about 4 times, nobody will be saying a thing if that pitch is at his ribs or his ass. At his head? I would hope he stares down the pitcher after crushing the ball the next time he comes up. And I would hope the manager would stand up for the players on the team and their health. You realize that, although not very often, getting hit in the head by a pitch can essentially end players' careers? Crybaby? For being pissed about getting a 95 mph fastball thrown at his head? Really? I don't know a player who wouldn't say something/do something about that. And you're kidding yourself if you say otherwise. If you honestly think players would not react to that then you're just another bitter Cubs fan that Braun is easily the 2nd best player in the NL Central and the Brewers have him. And he has fun while playing the game.
And after getting hit by pitches Braun sure doesn't come up the next at bat and HIT like a girl does he? :D
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We're whining? I can only IMAGINE the outcry if Macha were to have (God forbid) had Suppan toss a heater in the vicinity of Soriano's dome today. And should he manage to somehow duck out of the way and have it graze his bat instead, would that make you feel ANY better about having a pitcher gun at your star's head? Yeah, I didn't think so.
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I was always taught you throw up and in on a bunt. It makes it nearly impossible to hit. Considering it hit Brauns bat I'd say it was a good pitch.
If Braun doesn't want to get hit, he should stop watching his homeruns. If Soriano gets a ball high and tight after watching a homerun, quite frankly he brought it on himself.
But I see how it is. It's ok to make fun of Aramis hurting his shoulder but heaven for bid someone goes high and tight on Braun.
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I was always taught you throw up and in on a bunt. It makes it nearly impossible to hit. Considering it hit Brauns bat I'd say it was a good pitch.
If Braun doesn't want to get hit, he should stop watching his homeruns. If Soriano gets a ball high and tight after watching a homerun, quite frankly he brought it on himself.
But I see how it is. It's ok to make fun of Aramis hurting his shoulder but heaven for bid someone goes high and tight on Braun.
Haha Dumpster definitely did not have time to see Braun square around and then decide where to locate his pitch. It was going to be an attempt at a bunt for a base hit. Again, that is just straight up ignorance if you are telling yourself that it is smart to throw at a guy's head, and that Dumpster saw that Braun was going to bunt and located his pitch based on that. Nobody was on base. Braun was not trying to move a runner over. He was not showing bunt 1 bit until Dumpster was well into his windup. Also, when you are taught to throw up and in on a bunt attempt, you throw up and in outside of the zone, but not at somebody's head. Otherwise what's the point? You're trying to get the bunter to pop that pitch up. If you hit a dude in the head, not only does the runner move over, but the bunter gets on base. So you showed some baseball knowledge, good job, but then you tried to make it fit your argument when it really didn't. Square peg in a round hole. Nice try though.
I'd just say you're straight up a fool for trying to say that this was okay. I'm pretty sure I've seen plenty of Scrubs fans poking fun at Sheets and his injury problems. Now that we don't have an injury prone player you just don't have anyone to make fun of, but it does go both ways, believe it or not. If a Brewers pitcher threw at Soriano's head I would not say that it was a good pitch, that is for sure. In fact, when Julio dotted Reed Johnson after he robbed Fielder's homerun in the last series I came on here saying that I was pretty unhappy about that. You don't hit someone for making a good catch, just like you don't throw at a guy's head.
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you're just another bitter Cubs fan that Braun is easily the 2nd best player in the NL Central and the Brewers have him. And he has fun while playing the game.
I love the fact Brewers fans brag about having the 2nd best player in the NL Central. I want the 2nd Best Player In The NL Central Award to become an annual award.
Previous 2nd Best Players In NL Central
1996: Jeff Bagwell (Under Brian Jordan)
1997: Craig Biggio (Under Bagwell)
1998: Mark McGuire (Under MVP Sosa)
1999: Greg Vaughn (Under Bagwell)
2000: Sammy Sosa (Under Edmonds)
2001: Albert Pujols (Under Sosa)
2002: Sammy Sosa (Under Pujols)
2003: Mark Prior (Under Pujols)
2004: Scott Rolen (Under Pujols)
2005: Derrek Lee (Under Pujols)
2006: Lance Berman (Under Pujols)
2007: Albert Pujols (Under Fielder)
2008: Ryan Braun (Under Pujols)
New banner for Miller Park?
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/braun-1.jpg)
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I'm pretty sure I've seen plenty of Scrubs fans poking fun at Sheets and his injury problems.
Yeah and I've never heard a Brewer fan mention Wood or Prior.
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Also your beloved Miller mocks you guys at Wrigley Field:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m75/nancydsgns/cubs.jpg?t=1242024650)
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And for you Wrigley Field haters: at least we don't have 20 minute delays because our brand new stadium doesn't work again.
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I love the fact Brewers fans brag about having the 2nd best player in the NL Central. I want the 2nd Best Player In The NL Central Award to become an annual award.
Previous 2nd Best Players In NL Central
1996: Jeff Bagwell (Under Brian Jordan)
1997: Craig Biggio (Under Bagwell)
1998: Mark McGuire (Under MVP Sosa)
1999: Greg Vaughn (Under Bagwell)
2000: Sammy Sosa (Under Edmonds)
2001: Albert Pujols (Under Sosa)
2002: Sammy Sosa (Under Pujols)
2003: Mark Prior (Under Pujols)
2004: Scott Rolen (Under Pujols)
2005: Derrek Lee (Under Pujols)
2006: Lance Berman (Under Pujols)
2007: Albert Pujols (Under Fielder)
2008: Ryan Braun (Under Pujols)
New banner for Miller Park?
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/braun-1.jpg)
That's cute. Perhaps instead of "2nd best player in the NL Central", it can more eloquently be put as "better than anyone on your whole roster." Does that change the perception of it at all?
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That's cute. Perhaps instead of "2nd best player in the NL Central", it can more eloquently be put as "better than anyone on your whole roster." Does that change the perception of it at all?
Well if it makes you feel better. I mean personally I'd rather have a team of many very good players like the Cubs and win the division. That's just me though.
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/braun2.jpg)
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Also have you ever driven north on Miller Park Way (41). Miller Park looks like crap.
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/braun3.jpg)
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You Brewer fans are a disgusting bunch. Maybe this is why Milwaukee smells.
http://www.youtube.com/v/dhdT8gEaFP0&hl=en&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/OizgoLJebGs&hl=en&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/v/flOCkakCr6k&hl=en&fs=1
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Also your beloved Miller mocks you guys at Wrigley Field:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m75/nancydsgns/cubs.jpg?t=1242024650)
A lack of loyalty in advertising? Oh, the horror!
This is about as relevant as bringing up Bartman.
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And I still can't believe people are bringing up Braun's defense.
TT...do you acknowledge that Ryan Braun has limited experience in LF and that he is only barely into his 2nd season playing the position? The only frame of refrence that you have to call him a bad fielder, is his 1st season ever playing that position...not a good way to judge a player on his abilities.
His whole career, prior to last season, he has been at SS/3B.
I have noticed the same things you have...misjudging flyballs, ill advised dives, etc...but I would have to say, considering the fact that he switched from his natural position, and has had to learn LF on the fly...hes doing a pretty solid job.
Now, there is always a chance he struggles to develop (like Soriano), look like an ass out in LF (like Soriano), make fielding mistakes that cost his team games (like Soriano), but I doubt it...
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TT...do you acknowledge that Ryan Braun has limited experience in LF and that he is only barely into his 2nd season playing the position? The only frame of refrence that you have to call him a bad fielder, is his 1st season ever playing that position...not a good way to judge a player on his abilities.
His whole career, prior to last season, he has been at SS/3B.
I have noticed the same things you have...misjudging flyballs, ill advised dives, etc...but I would have to say, considering the fact that he switched from his natural position, and has had to learn LF on the fly...hes doing a pretty solid job.
Now, there is always a chance he struggles to develop (like Soriano), look like an ass out in LF (like Soriano), make fielding mistakes that cost his team games (like Soriano), but I doubt it...
At least he doesn't blatantly take plays off (like Soriano)...
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Also have you ever driven north on Miller Park Way (41). Miller Park looks like crap.
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/braun3.jpg)
As opposed to the netting that keeps Wrigley field from killing its patrons?
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This is actually a legit question for Cubs fans. Why doesn't Soriano bat 2nd 3rd in the lineup? How many RBI's a year does he miss out on by batting leadoff?
Is it because he "demands" too? I am no GM, but looking at his stats the last few years. His OBP is is .330ish, decent. Strikes out more than a lead off hitter probably should, but in the past 2+ seasons he has hit 72 HRs, batted around .300 but only had 165 RBIs.
Now compare that to Braun. Fairly comparable hitters on both average and OBP, in the last 2+ seasons, Braun at the #3 spot has hit 79 HRs, but batted in 231 runs.
It seems so logical, especially now with the injuries to A-Ram and D-Lee.
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This is actually a legit question for Cubs fans. Why doesn't Soriano bat 2nd 3rd in the lineup? How many RBI's a year does he miss out on by batting leadoff?
He has never demonstrated an ability/willingness to do any sort of situational hitting whatsoever.
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Well if it makes you feel better. I mean personally I'd rather have a team of many very good players like the Cubs and win the division. That's just me though.
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/braun2.jpg)
Getting closer. How about...
"Playoff wins since Ryan Braun entered the NL Central."
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We're whining? I can only IMAGINE the outcry if Macha were to have (God forbid) had Suppan toss a heater in the vicinity of Soriano's dome today. And should he manage to somehow duck out of the way and have it graze his bat instead, would that make you feel ANY better about having a pitcher gun at your star's head? Yeah, I didn't think so.
Soriano WAS hit in the head...this year...by Wellemeyer against STL. The Cubs responded by throwing inside, then hitting Pujols in the back. Just like the Brewers....when they hit Theriot in the ribs. It's part of the game. You didn't see Piniella crying to Bob Watson either.
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Soriano WAS hit in the head...this year...by Wellemeyer against STL. The Cubs responded by throwing inside, then hitting Pujols in the back. Just like the Brewers....when they hit Theriot in the ribs. It's part of the game. You didn't see Piniella crying to Bob Watson either.
That's fair. I'll agree that throwing at the ribs in retaliation is part of the game. But now you AND TallTitan have said (in different contexts) that throwing at someone's head is "part of the game" (whether they're bunting or you're attempting to send a message). I don't think I've ever been "taught" or "heard" a situation where throwing a fastball at a guy's head is acceptable.
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Also your beloved Miller mocks you guys at Wrigley Field:
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m75/nancydsgns/cubs.jpg?t=1242024650)
Actually....MillerCoors belongs to Chicago now....read the reasoning for the move to Chicago...
http://www.millercoors.com/news/headquarters-faq.aspx
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That's fair. I'll agree that throwing at the ribs in retaliation is part of the game. But now you AND TallTitan have said (in different contexts) that throwing at someone's head is "part of the game" (whether they're bunting or you're attempting to send a message). I don't think I've ever been "taught" or "heard" a situation where throwing a fastball at a guy's head is acceptable.
No....I agree with you....throwing at someone's head is never acceptable. I don't care which team you play or pull for. I meant the retaliation part of it. I honestly can't imagine that pitchers ever intentionally gun for a guy's head (again, there are certain unwritten "rules;" it's not unlike a chop block in football...you don't do something that could potentially end the career of another player)...but I do believe that when it happens, the pitcher was most likely going inside or possibly even throwing at the guy and the ball gets away....that's what happens when a pitcher is intentionally throwing a non-strike...way less control.
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No....I agree with you....throwing at someone's head is never acceptable. I don't care which team you play or pull for. I meant the retaliation part of it. I honestly can't imagine that pitchers ever intentionally gun for a guy's head (again, there are certain unwritten "rules;" it's not unlike a chop block in football...you don't do something that could potentially end the career of another player)...but I do believe that when it happens, the pitcher was most likely going inside or possibly even throwing at the guy and the ball gets away....that's what happens when a pitcher is intentionally throwing a non-strike...way less control.
That's true. I always wonder why certain pitchers struggle immensely with accuracy on an intentional walk. Some guys flirt with throwing it to the backstop on occasion.
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As opposed to the netting that keeps Wrigley field from killing its patrons?
They could've used some netting at Miller Park:
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-6291553.html
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This is actually a legit question for Cubs fans. Why doesn't Soriano bat 2nd 3rd in the lineup? How many RBI's a year does he miss out on by batting leadoff?
Is it because he "demands" too? I am no GM, but looking at his stats the last few years. His OBP is is .330ish, decent. Strikes out more than a lead off hitter probably should, but in the past 2+ seasons he has hit 72 HRs, batted around .300 but only had 165 RBIs.
Now compare that to Braun. Fairly comparable hitters on both average and OBP, in the last 2+ seasons, Braun at the #3 spot has hit 79 HRs, but batted in 231 runs.
It seems so logical, especially now with the injuries to A-Ram and D-Lee.
This has been a ciruclar debate and point of contention since Soriano came to Chicago. A lot of people were hoping for him to be moved down in the line up this year after his playoff "performance" last year...I'd even take second behind Theriot....but anywhere 3-5 could also make sense. It's not a matter of him demanding anything...he's openly said he'd hit anywhere Piniella puts him. It's a matter of where he's comfortable...which over the course of his career has been in the leadoff spot. Over the course of the season, he'll get more ABs hitting there and it's nice to have the occassional 1-0 lead in the 1st inninng but, you're right, there's no telling how many runs the Cubs are leaving on the table in certain situations...especially now without Lee and Ramirez.
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Yeah and I've never heard a Brewer fan mention Wood or Prior.
You're really good at pulling only parts of my posts that fit your argument. Like I said, it goes both ways. I didn't claim the Brewers fans to be holy and to never poke fun at your injury prone players. I said it goes both ways, meaning that BOTH the Brewers fans and Cubs fans poke fun at injury prone players. So thank you for bringing up the same point I just made.
And PTM, you're starting to sound pretty desperate. Your last 6 posts have had nothing to do with baseball whatsoever. You have banners, how bad Miller Park looks, how bad Miller Park functions, a advertisement from Miller, and Brewers fans.
Is it because your "lineup of good players," rather than the Brewers "just 2nd best player in the NL Central and then scrubs" (as you would seem to be implying), just dropped 2 of 3 to the Brewers and really does not look very good right now? What's the deal?
By the way that sign Miller has is really funny. It's been a while since you guys have been able to WIN one of those pennant races.
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You're really good at pulling only parts of my posts that fit your argument. Like I said, it goes both ways. I didn't claim the Brewers fans to be holy and to never poke fun at your injury prone players. I said it goes both ways, meaning that BOTH the Brewers fans and Cubs fans poke fun at injury prone players. So thank you for bringing up the same point I just made.
And PTM, you're starting to sound pretty desperate. Your last 6 posts have had nothing to do with baseball whatsoever. You have banners, how bad Miller Park looks, how bad Miller Park functions, a advertisement from Miller, and Brewers fans.
Is it because your "lineup of good players," rather than the Brewers "just 2nd best player in the NL Central and then scrubs" (as you would seem to be implying), just dropped 2 of 3 to the Brewers and really does not look very good right now? What's the deal?
By the way that sign Miller has is really funny. It's been a while since you guys have been able to WIN one of those pennant races.
1.) I haven't posted anything.
2.) Everything TT has posted has contributed to the pissing match in a humorous fashion. It's a pissing match that you have routinely taken personal and get far too angered with, relax.
3.) Losing 2 of 3 to the Brewers doesn't have me worried. Losing Aramis doesn't have me worried. Were talking about baseball. Things look fine until you have these problems in August. I would be worried if my team was greatly overachieving, but you have to enjoy it.
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I would figure the simple fact that the Cubs allowed Counsell's 1 HR of the year would be enough to put them in hiding for a week. Guess not.
To take a page from Shaq, hey Cub fans, how does Braun's ass taste?
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They could've used some netting at Miller Park:
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-6291553.html
touche
That has everything to with miller park and nothing to do with a man's stupidity!
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1.) I haven't posted anything.
2.) Everything TT has posted has contributed to the pissing match in a humorous fashion. It's a pissing match that you have routinely taken personal and get far too angered with, relax.
3.) Losing 2 of 3 to the Brewers doesn't have me worried. Losing Aramis doesn't have me worried. Were talking about baseball. Things look fine until you have these problems in August. I would be worried if my team was greatly overachieving, but you have to enjoy it.
You're right, I meant TT, I apologize. Yes, I understand that those things were meant to be funny, and I definitely wasn't taking them seriously or personally, but I think it's really funny that we were arguing about baseball and all of a sudden he switches to that stuff, which have nothing to do with baseball.
As far as not being worried, then more power to you. Quiet honestly the "lineup of good players" that TT refers to looks more like a "lineup of old players" to me. To go player by player (I'm just going to go with all healthy players as well):
Soto - definitely not old, but definitely doesn't seem like the Rookie of the Year from last year either. Looks like Hill may be a better option at C.
Lee - pretty clearly not the Lee of old. Hoffpauir is definitely the better option at 1B right now.
Fontenot - Very scrappy player, very good defensively, always hate playing your middle of the infield. But can't really carry an offense. Will get on base. Solid but not spectacular
Theriot - Basically the same thing that was said for Fontenot
Ramirez - Still a good ballplayer, especially offensively. But again, he's not getting any younger any time soon
Soriano - Very good offensively, swings at too many 59 foot pitches though, but definitely not a bad player to have despite bad defense. He's got to be getting up there in years too (not sure how old he is and too lazy to look)
Fukudome - Solid player but pretty old for your typical 2nd year player
Bradley - Clearly not as good as he was last year and is getting old as well
Your starting pitchers are very good. Your bullpen, other than Marmol, really isn't that good.
I'm not saying they are out of it by any means, but I think some of your big name players are nowhere near what they used to be, and you are currently having some injury problems. To me, with how Lee, Bradley, and Soto have struggled so far, this lineup is nowhere near as scary as I originally thought it would be. Obviously players go through slumps and they could very well turn it around, but I have seen nothing to this point to suggest that they will. Long season, not counting them out, but also not ready to claim them as having a "lineup of good players."
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the cubs success or lack thereof this year will hinge on how deep their starting pitchers can go in games. If they can go deep then the cubs probably have the best shot at winning the Central.
If they start stringing together a few runs of bad starts they could easily find themselves on the outside looking in come playoff time.
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Hards pretty much hit it dead on. I don't think we are done bullpen wise, I think we may shopping around for help.
As for the lineup, it's aging. I think Derrek might be healthy, but Micah has been hot lately, so they are playing that game.
Soto and Bradley have been off to real slow starts. Soto most likely due to the WBC, but it's time to turn it around. There are a lot of big name players slumping right now, Upton, Berkman, Texieria...
Theriot and Fontenot are what they are and I'm happy with the combo. They both be at or over .300 on the season. Fontenot has suprising strength and Theriot might be finding a stroke. With these two guys we can be pretty cheap in the middle infield.
The lineup is getting old, but the nice part about having a large payroll is restocking and moving on.
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I would figure the simple fact that the Cubs allowed Counsell's 1 HR of the year would be enough to put them in hiding for a week. Guess not.
To take a page from Shaq, hey Cub fans, how does Braun's ass taste?
Hilarious. Since Brewers fans felt brave enough to stick around after Koyie Hill's monster HR in the first series, why shouldn't Cubs fans be here after Counsell's mammoth shot heard around the world on Saturday?
I don't plan on sampling Braun's ass, but I imagine it would have much less flavor than the Soriano ass you enjoyed after the first series.
Congrats to Milwaukee for playing .500 at home against the Cubs so far this year....live it up....these are good times!!!
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you really want to compare road records?
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Is that what I was doing?
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nope, but I'd rather have a better road record at this point in the year.
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nope, but I'd rather have a better road record at this point in the year.
...and overall record.
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nope, but I'd rather have a better road record at this point in the year.
Fantastic then....absolutely right....you guys should be peacocking around today knowing you're a half game ahead of the Cubs on May 11...with a 9-7 road record vs. 9-8. Hilarious. How I envy your position.
Sometimes it's the little things in life....I get it.
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Hilarious. Since Brewers fans felt brave enough to stick around after Koyie Hill's monster HR in the first series, why shouldn't Cubs fans be here after Counsell's mammoth shot heard around the world on Saturday?
I don't plan on sampling Braun's ass, but I imagine it would have much less flavor than the Soriano ass you enjoyed after the first series.
Congrats to Milwaukee for playing .500 at home against the Cubs so far this year....live it up....these are good times!!!
If you note, I wasn't on here after that series... I understood the problems the Brewers had at the start of the year, and didn't have much to say.
I love how as Cubs fans you downplay losing series like its no big deal, make fun of Brewer fans for rubbing it in your nose, but when the Cubs win a series, or make a push for the top spot in the NL Central (although we might as well understand that the Cardinals will be there all year)... however when the Cubs win a series against the Brewers, open the flood gates, give Soriano the MVP, give Zambrano the Cy Young, Captain Lou for Coach of the Year (how did that work for him last year?)... however when the Brewers win the series... who cares? Life is all good in Wrigleyville. 102 Years?
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TT...do you acknowledge that Ryan Braun has limited experience in LF and that he is only barely into his 2nd season playing the position? The only frame of refrence that you have to call him a bad fielder, is his 1st season ever playing that position...not a good way to judge a player on his abilities.
Will you guys give it up! Yes Braun has limited experience in left field! That's why he's not a good left fielder. So stop defending his defense.
Hell I'll call him the greatest hitter in the history of baseball if it helps. It still doesn't change the fact his defense sucks.
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I would figure the simple fact that the Cubs allowed Counsell's 1 HR of the year would be enough to put them in hiding for a week. Guess not.
To take a page from Shaq, hey Cub fans, how does Braun's ass taste?
Hahahaha. I love the Shaq Kobe rap.
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Also I think Bob Brenly said it best:
Braun had some issues with some rib muscles early in the season; he may have some issues with his rib muscles as this season progresses if he acts like that on every home run he hits.
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The vast majority of homers he's hit this year he hasn't show-boated down to first. In fact, against the Pirates earlier this year, he put his head down and ran to first only to get plunked in the shoulder his next at bat. He isn't hit as much as he is because he drops the bat and gazes while strutting around the bases, he's hit because he's one of the best hitters in the game and also stands right over the inside corner. He may complain a little much after he is hit but some of those times he's hit in the shoulder or near the head and while getting beaned is part of the game, there's no reason to throw at or near someone's head
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Also I think Bob Brenly said it best:
Really classy stuff by your commentators there.
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Really classy stuff by your commentators there.
Solution: Don't let Braun hit as many home runs.
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I love the fact Brewers fans brag about having the 2nd best player in the NL Central. I want the 2nd Best Player In The NL Central Award to become an annual award.
Previous 2nd Best Players In NL Central
1996: Jeff Bagwell (Under Brian Jordan)
1997: Craig Biggio (Under Bagwell)
1998: Mark McGuire (Under MVP Sosa)
1999: Greg Vaughn (Under Bagwell)
2000: Sammy Sosa (Under Edmonds)
2001: Albert Pujols (Under Sosa)
2002: Sammy Sosa (Under Pujols)
2003: Mark Prior (Under Pujols)
2004: Scott Rolen (Under Pujols)
2005: Derrek Lee (Under Pujols)
2006: Lance Berman (Under Pujols)
2007: Albert Pujols (Under Fielder)
2008: Ryan Braun (Under Pujols)
New banner for Miller Park?
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/braun-1.jpg)
I know I'm a bit late on this one but that was gold. I'm offended, but the banners are utterly hysterical! :)
As to the pissing of the pants for Brewer fans, have you ever been in the bleachers at Wrigley? No signed seating, piss in empty beer cups...seen a chubby cubby drink his own urine on accident.
"Smelly Onion" should be "Smells like someone drinking own urine"
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Really classy stuff by your commentators there.
Guarantee you when Braun pulls that crap against the Cards, LaRussa goes for the head.
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Guarantee you when Braun pulls that crap against the Cards, LaRussa goes for the head.
He didn't when Braun beat them twice in the same series at Bush Stadium last year. In fact Braun watched his home run much worse than he did against the Cubs and they still didn't throw at him. And their commentators didn't say that he deserved to be hit. Weird.
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If teams keep plunking Braun expect retalliation.
Pujols would probably get one in the middle of his back if LaRussa has his pitchers throw at Braun.
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If teams keep plunking Braun expect retalliation.
Pujols would probably get one in the middle of his back if LaRussa has his pitchers throw at Braun.
I don't expect retaliation. We're talking about a guy who hangs his head in the strike zone. Just because he's Jewish and has his own line of Afflicition rip-off shirts, doesn't mean he can try to squeeze the zone. The pitch either hit his bat or was within mere millimeters of the bat, Dempster threw a pitch that hit his bat. Add to the fact that Dempster has no prior history of throwing at batters, it's a mute point. Act like a man, Braun, and you may earn respect from the league.
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I don't expect retaliation. We're talking about a guy who hangs his head in the strike zone. Just because he's Jewish and has his own line of Afflicition rip-off shirts, doesn't mean he can try to squeeze the zone. The pitch either hit his bat or was within mere millimeters of the bat, Dempster threw a pitch that hit his bat. Add to the fact that Dempster has no prior history of throwing at batters, it's a mute point. Act like a man, Braun, and you may earn respect from the league.
a bit off-color, don't you think?
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a bit off-color, don't you think?
No?
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Braun is as Jewish as I am. It's in his ancestry but he was raised in NO faith.
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I don't expect retaliation. We're talking about a guy who hangs his head in the strike zone. Just because he's Jewish and has his own line of Afflicition rip-off shirts, doesn't mean he can try to squeeze the zone. The pitch either hit his bat or was within mere millimeters of the bat, Dempster threw a pitch that hit his bat. Add to the fact that Dempster has no prior history of throwing at batters, it's a mute point. Act like a man, Braun, and you may earn respect from the league.
WTF is a MUTE point? You can't talk or something? Or did you mean moot point?
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I don't expect retaliation. We're talking about a guy who hangs his head in the strike zone. Just because he's Jewish and has his own line of Afflicition rip-off shirts, doesn't mean he can try to squeeze the zone. The pitch either hit his bat or was within mere millimeters of the bat, Dempster threw a pitch that hit his bat. Add to the fact that Dempster has no prior history of throwing at batters, it's a mute point. Act like a man, Braun, and you may earn respect from the league.
I'd rather wear an Affliction-type shirt that comes from Braun's line than all the ACTUAL Affliction shirts you see at/around Wrigley Field
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I'd rather wear an Affliction-type shirt that comes from Braun's line than all the ACTUAL Affliction shirts you see at/around Wrigley Field
Or one of these gems from the loveable losers. And yes, Milwaukee fans have their middle finger logo shirts blah blah blah...
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marqptm, replace the word Jewish with Asian, Black, Muslim or whatever, and tell me that it matters to your argument whatsoever.
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If you note, I wasn't on here after that series... I understood the problems the Brewers had at the start of the year, and didn't have much to say.
I love how as Cubs fans you downplay losing series like its no big deal, make fun of Brewer fans for rubbing it in your nose, but when the Cubs win a series, or make a push for the top spot in the NL Central (although we might as well understand that the Cardinals will be there all year)... however when the Cubs win a series against the Brewers, open the flood gates, give Soriano the MVP, give Zambrano the Cy Young, Captain Lou for Coach of the Year (how did that work for him last year?)... however when the Brewers win the series... who cares? Life is all good in Wrigleyville. 102 Years?
So, you only post here when the Brewers are playing well? Interesting....and no doubt the easy way out. BTW, I didn't realize that the Cubs winning 7 of 10 (compared to the Brewers 6 of 10) and finishing a 3-3 road trip were in such dire straits for all the Cubs fans to stay away from posting here.
I'm not going to speak for all Cubs fans...but, sure, would we rather win or lose a series in May? The answer is obvious. At the same time, there's no reason to run and hide because you just lost a series on the road to one of the (if not the) hottest teams in baseball when we're decimated with injuries....and, yes, that does factor into the argument like it or not.
After the Brewers won their home opener over the Cubs...one game mind you....and went on to lose the series...there were people here quoting irrelevant Cincinnati broadcasters from last year, posting Cubs youtube videos, etc...again, it's the little things in life...I get it.
As it stands now, I'm happy with splitting the 6 games in Milwaukee...we'll see how it goes from here.
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marqptm, replace the word Jewish with Asian, Black, Muslim or whatever, and tell me that it matters to your argument whatsoever.
The fact that he's received press as a Jewish player, he's called the Hebrew Hammer, and he's hope for Jewish baseball players. That's why.
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riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
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The fact that he's received press as a Jewish player, he's called the Hebrew Hammer, and he's hope for Jewish baseball players. That's why.
All put on him by media/fans. He said he's fine with it and it doesn't bother him but in no way claims he is Jewish.
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The fact that he's received press as a Jewish player, he's called the Hebrew Hammer, and he's hope for Jewish baseball players. That's why.
Actually that would be Gabe Kapler who celebrates being Jewish in both ancestry and faith - unlike Braun who is only a half Jewish person who is not of the faith.
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He didn't when Braun beat them twice in the same series at Bush Stadium last year. In fact Braun watched his home run much worse than he did against the Cubs and they still didn't throw at him. And their commentators didn't say that he deserved to be hit. Weird.
Do you actually know what the Cardinals commentators were saying after that game? Now THAT would be weird.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure Braun's last HR of that series was in the 9th inninng, correct? Not a lot of chances to retaliate when the game ends. If you check, I'm pretty sure Cameron was HBP of the first inninng the next time the two teams played each other....interesting.
It seems like Brewers fans forget about last year's incident with Edmonds....after hitting 2 HRs in a game, Gagne threw at his head in his next AB....and was ejected. In the same game, McClung then threw his first pitch over Soto's head. I'm guessing there was no issue with that though.
Seems like Braun is developing a repuation around the league....i.e. against Pittburgh two weeks ago with Karstens.
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Do you actually know what the Cardinals commentators were saying after that game? Now THAT would be weird.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure Braun's last HR of that series was in the 9th inninng, correct? Not a lot of chances to retaliate when the game ends. If you check, I'm pretty sure Cameron was HBP of the first inninng the next time the two teams played each other....interesting.
It seems like Brewers fans forget about last year's incident with Edmonds....after hitting 2 HRs in a game, Gagne threw at his head in his next AB....and was ejected. In the same game, McClung then threw his first pitch over Soto's head. I'm guessing there was no issue with that though.
Seems like Braun is developing a repuation around the league....i.e. against Pittburgh two weeks ago with Karstens.
I'm pretty sure I'd throw at the All-Star of the team that has owned us for 17 straight too. Pittsburgh is a bad example and you know it.
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I don't expect retaliation. We're talking about a guy who hangs his head in the strike zone. Just because he's Jewish and has his own line of Afflicition rip-off shirts, doesn't mean he can try to squeeze the zone. The pitch either hit his bat or was within mere millimeters of the bat, Dempster threw a pitch that hit his bat. Add to the fact that Dempster has no prior history of throwing at batters, it's a mute point. Act like a man, Braun, and you may earn respect from the league.
Yeah. And it might even be a moot point, too.
I'm trying to find a video of this game from anywhere, but I really don't think Braun squared around until well after Dempster was in his windup. There was no one on base, and it was the first pitch of the inning, I believe.
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I'm pretty sure I'd throw at the All-Star of the team that has owned us for 17 straight too. Pittsburgh is a bad example and you know it.
How is that a bad example? If anything it's a much more clear and blatant example of throwing at someone intentionally....actually hitting him (not another player in the lineup) after hitting a home run...in the same game. What difference does it make what team it is or what the head-to-head record trend has been? So, if the Cubs had lost to the Brewers 6 straight times, it would've been understandable to throw at Braun? Interesting.
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How is that a bad example? If anything it's a much more clear and blatant example of throwing at someone intentionally....actually hitting him (not another player in the lineup) after hitting a home run...in the same game. What difference does it make what team it is or what the head-to-head record trend has been? So, if the Cubs had lost to the Brewers 6 straight times, it would've been understandable to throw at Braun? Interesting.
The way I look at it is that EVERY PITCHER on Pittsburgh is tired of being the Brewers' whipping boy. Thus, ANY EXCUSE they have will then be used to justify throwing at him. Regardless if he had just hit a HR in the previous at-bat.
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The way I look at it is that EVERY PITCHER on Pittsburgh is tired of being the Brewers' whipping boy. Thus, ANY EXCUSE they have will then be used to justify throwing at him. Regardless if he had just hit a HR in the previous at-bat.
I guess I understand your angle....but then why would Braun complain in the media and call out Selig to keep his attention on the remaining games between the two teams this season? If anything, you'd think he'd laugh it off as, 'that's the only way they can keep us from scoring runs...we own them.' ...especially since he was hit in the back. I guess that's the way he prefers to handle things.
BTW, he was quoted as saying that he did not think Dempster was throwing at him, correct?
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Do you actually know what the Cardinals commentators were saying after that game? Now THAT would be weird.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure Braun's last HR of that series was in the 9th inninng, correct? Not a lot of chances to retaliate when the game ends. If you check, I'm pretty sure Cameron was HBP of the first inninng the next time the two teams played each other....interesting.
It seems like Brewers fans forget about last year's incident with Edmonds....after hitting 2 HRs in a game, Gagne threw at his head in his next AB....and was ejected. In the same game, McClung then threw his first pitch over Soto's head. I'm guessing there was no issue with that though.
Seems like Braun is developing a repuation around the league....i.e. against Pittburgh two weeks ago with Karstens.
They weren't saying that Braun deserved to be hit.
Also, do you really think that teams just forget about a grudge they have with a player if they don't get a chance to take care of it in one game? I doubt that. In fact, let's take the Scrubbies this weekend, for example.
Game 1 (Friday): 2-1 Scrubs in the bottom of the 8th, 1 on, Braun at the plate. He absolutely hammers a pitch opposite field and watches it sail out of there to take a 3-2 lead. Scrubbies fans take offense to the fact that he watches the ball leave the yard, despite the fact that it was effectively a game winner. Heaven forbid he watched that home run. Braun doesn't come up the rest of that night.
Game 2 (Saturday): Brewers seem to be in control of the game (admittedly the Scrubs make it close before the Brewers pull away again). Braun comes up. He takes one off of his head. Were the Scrubs that pissed about his 0-1 day to that point? I doubt it. I'm guessing, although I could be wrong but it would be a little weird if 0-1 pissed them off that bad, that it was from him watching his game winning home run the night before, when he never came up again. Just for good measure, Braun watches his home run leave in about .3 seconds and then stares down Dumpster the rest of the way in his next at bat. Once again the Scrubbies can't believe he showboats, despite the fact that it must feel good to do that right after having a ball thrown at your head.
So you're trying to claim that had the Scrubs been pissed they would have hit Prince Fielder knowing they wouldn't see Braun at the plate again that night? You really think teams want to hit a player, but since the game ends then all is forgotten? Now THAT is weird.
As far as the Brewers throwing at peoples' heads, I would be pissed off as a fan. Just like I was when we threw at Reed Johnson for robbing Fielder's grand slam. There's a time, and a place on someone's body, where it is somewhat acceptable to hit someone. You don't throw at someone for making a good defensive play, and you don't throw at someone's head. And I'm sure that the Brewers' broadcasters weren't commenting that they deserved to be thrown at. You're right, I don't KNOW that, but that's pretty classless and unprofessional to say on TV where thousands of people are watching.
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Wade,
The cubs were not going to hit him when he first came up in the first inning while counsel was standing at first base. And that is why they waited until the second time he was up!
I didn't read ALL OF your post above however ;D
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He didn't when Braun beat them twice in the same series at Bush Stadium last year. In fact Braun watched his home run much worse than he did against the Cubs and they still didn't throw at him. And their commentators didn't say that he deserved to be hit. Weird.
Haha....so, you're not referencing the Cardinals commentators here? And comparing them to what Brenly allegedly said in response to Braun watching his home run? Strange.
Maybe you can help me piece it together then above:
He = LaRussa
They = Cardinals
Their commentators = ?
Whoever it is, you apprently knew what they had to say after the game. Impressive.
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I guess I understand your angle....but then why would Braun complain in the media and call out Selig to keep his attention on the remaining games between the two teams this season? If anything, you'd think he'd laugh it off as, 'that's the only way they can keep us from scoring runs...we own them.' ...especially since he was hit in the back. I guess that's the way he prefers to handle things.
BTW, he was quoted as saying that he did not think Dempster was throwing at him, correct?
I didn't hear anything referencing the Dempster pitch...
I see what you mean, but the reason he addressed it in the media is because Karstens threw high and he was basically calling it an "order" (from the Manager?) due to the reaction Karstens had after the pitch.
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Haha....so, you're not referencing the Cardinals commentators here? And comparing them to what Brenly allegedly said in response to Braun watching his home run? Strange.
Maybe you can help me piece it together then above:
He = LaRussa
They = Cardinals
Their commentators = ?
Whoever it is, you apprently knew what they had to say after the game. Impressive.
You're right, I did say something, and you're right, I don't know what they said, but I'm guessing they didn't say that Braun deserved to be thrown at. That's just classless and unprofessional for a broadcaster to say. Fits right in with the Scrubbies though.
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So people are complaing about watching homeruns. Weird.
Marquette94 seems to forget that Sosa crow hopped to first on just about every homerun he hit, and a few long singles too. Interesting.
So then why didn't pitchers always throw Sosa? Weird.
Maybe this whole thing is being blown out of propotion? Interesting.
What if teams continue to put a man a base for Prince, and possibly get ejected for it? Interesting.
Ryan Braun likes to hit homeruns. Impressive.
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So people are complaing about watching homeruns. Weird.
Marquette94 seems to forget that Sosa crow hopped to first on just about every homerun he hit, and a few long singles too. Interesting.
So then why didn't pitchers always throw Sosa? Weird.
Maybe this whole thing is being blown out of propotion? Interesting.
What if teams continue to put a man a base for Prince, and possibly get ejected for it? Interesting.
Ryan Braun likes to hit homeruns. Impressive.
They did throw at him...and as a Sosa fan during his time, it hurts to post this.
(http://reds.enquirer.com/2003/04/21/sosa_zoom.jpg)
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I didn't hear anything referencing the Dempster pitch...
I see what you mean, but the reason he addressed it in the media is because Karstens threw high and he was basically calling it an "order" (from the Manager?) due to the reaction Karstens had after the pitch.
I didn't see the play where Karstens hit Braun and didn't know the pitch was high...I only read about it where it said he was hit in the back. If he feels it was ordered by Russell then I could see his frustration....which is exactly what Edmonds felt about Yost last year.
Here's what I read on the Braun/Dempster thing:
http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090510&content_id=4658758&vkey=news_mil&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil
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So people are complaing about watching homeruns. Weird.
Marquette94 seems to forget that Sosa crow hopped to first on just about every homerun he hit, and a few long singles too. Interesting.
So then why didn't pitchers always throw Sosa? Weird.
Maybe this whole thing is being blown out of propotion? Interesting.
What if teams continue to put a man a base for Prince, and possibly get ejected for it? Interesting.
Ryan Braun likes to hit homeruns. Impressive.
Where did the Sosa thing come from? How could anyone who isn't blind forget about his antics? Rob already pointed out that Sammy was hit his fair share.
I would completely agree that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion....by which side? VERY interesting.
Ryan Braun loves to whine. Annoying. ;D
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I didn't see the play where Karstens hit Braun and didn't know the pitch was high...I only read about it where it said he was hit in the back. If he feels it was ordered by Russell then I could see his frustration....which is exactly what Edmonds felt about Yost last year.
Here's what I read on the Braun/Dempster thing:
http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090510&content_id=4658758&vkey=news_mil&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil
He reacts the way I figured he would after the sound bite he served up last time. I think Macha had a word or two and he (correctly) bit his tongue.
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They did throw at him...and as a Sosa fan during his time, it hurts to post this.
(http://reds.enquirer.com/2003/04/21/sosa_zoom.jpg)
That ball clearly hit his bat. His giant roided out head made the helmet explode. Truth.
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Were those the same roids that have ruined Turnbow and Gagne's career?
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Were those the same roids that have ruined Turnbow and Gagne's career?
...because those 2 were the face of our franchise.
In fact, it helps the Brewers that those roids ruined their careers. They were awful.
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Were those the same roids that have ruined Turnbow and Gagne's career?
My B, it wasn't roids that broke Sosa's helmet. He took too much brain tonic, like Ken Griffey Jr. did on the Simpsons.
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...because those 2 were the face of our franchise.
In fact, it helps the Brewers that those roids ruined their careers. They were awful.
I was just simply pointing out that no Brewers fan can rip on the cubs for roids. The brewers signed Cameron (who served his suspension as a brewer), Gagne, and Turnbow...all after they were part of the steroid scandal
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That ball clearly hit his bat. His giant roided out head made the helmet explode. Truth.
I have to admit, that one did make me laugh. This thread can change on a dime. Now we're saying that Gagne's and Turnbow's steroid usage was good because it got rid of them...whereas Sammy's alleged usage (never tested positive, and yes I know better) was bad because he was the face of the Cubs. Just like McGuire, blah blah blah...here we go with this...can we just cut and paste from 43 pages ago and get back to Braun being a cry ass?
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I was just simply pointing out that no Brewers fan can rip on the cubs for roids. The brewers signed Cameron (who served his suspension as a brewer), Gagne, and Turnbow...all after they were part of the steroid scandal
Fact Check:
Cameron was NOT suspended for steroids... it was amphetimines
Turnbow could always throw hard, he just is a total head case and has no command... explain how steroids can affect your control... please. His good pitching came AFTER his 2003 positive test... and he never tested positive after.
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But the fact he tested positive is something Turnbow has over Sosa if we want to go on a FACT basis!
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Fact Check:
Cameron was NOT suspended for steroids... it was amphetimines
Turnbow could always throw hard, he just is a total head case and has no command... explain how steroids can affect your control... please. His good pitching came AFTER his 2003 positive test... and he never tested positive after.
Turnbow and Farnsworth should get married.
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agreed.
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I think those 2 having tested positive is funny. Everyone knew Gagne was washed up and would not be a good closer. I always hated Turnbow. He was awful.
I never said Sammy Sosa took steroids because he was the face of the franchise, I'm just saying that the person who was the face of the Cubs franchise took steroids (and corked his bat), whereas you can bring up 2 players who were absolute garbage for the Brewers that used steroids.
Let's be honest with ourselves here, I would guess that a majority of baseball players in the 90s and early 2000s used steroids. Let's not kid ourselves and say that only Sammy Sosa, Eric Gagne, and Derrick Turnbow used steroids. Using steroids was never good, but that's what was going on at the time. It was accepted, so why wouldn't players do it?
If Braun was as busy crying as you Scrubby fans claim he is then how is he able to nut all over the teams that hit him when he next comes up to bat?
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I have to admit, that one did make me laugh. This thread can change on a dime. Now we're saying that Gagne's and Turnbow's steroid usage was good because it got rid of them...whereas Sammy's alleged usage (never tested positive, and yes I know better) was bad because he was the face of the Cubs. Just like McGuire, blah blah blah...here we go with this...can we just cut and paste from 43 pages ago and get back to Braun being a cry ass?
The only whining Braun did was with his bat to the upper deck.
And for the record, Braun is the GREATEST defensive left fielder in this generation! That is an undeniable truth.
If only the Chubs didn't spend all that money on Soriano and his ballerina, queer eye for the straight guy prance every time he catches the ball, sigh, but you are the Chubs.
(Hells Bells shattered Sosa's helmet--that doesn't make any sense, I know and I don't care)
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And for the record, Braun is the GREATEST defensive left fielder in this generation! That is an undeniable truth.
Wow.
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The only whining Braun did was with his bat to the upper deck.
How'd that bat work out for him in the 9th inning on Sunday?
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Wow.
Yeah...it's probably best to shake your head and let that one go.
Also, I wonder if we should come up with a clever nickname for the Brewers since that's en vogue....Sewers, Skewers, Spewers, Chewers, Fewers, Ewers, Toilets? Haha, or we can just forget it. ;)
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I think those 2 having tested positive is funny. Everyone knew Gagne was washed up and would not be a good closer. I always hated Turnbow. He was awful.
I never said Sammy Sosa took steroids because he was the face of the franchise, I'm just saying that the person who was the face of the Cubs franchise took steroids (and corked his bat), whereas you can bring up 2 players who were absolute garbage for the Brewers that used steroids.
Let's be honest with ourselves here, I would guess that a majority of baseball players in the 90s and early 2000s used steroids. Let's not kid ourselves and say that only Sammy Sosa, Eric Gagne, and Derrick Turnbow used steroids. Using steroids was never good, but that's what was going on at the time. It was accepted, so why wouldn't players do it?
If Braun was as busy crying as you Scrubby fans claim he is then how is he able to nut all over the teams that hit him when he next comes up to bat?
Everybody knew Gagne was washed up but Melvin it appears.
If that's your view on steroids in baseball (and one that's shared by just about anyone following the sport), then why bring up the 'face of the franchise' thing in the first place...what's the difference then if the majority of players are doing it? If that's the case then it's probable that the face of the Brewers franchise in '98 was probably doing them too...the only difference is nobody knows who that was.
The first few times I saw Turnbow pitch I remember thinking the Cubs are f*cked, because he had great stuff...then he turned into Farnsworth.
What does Braun's crying have to do with what he does in subsequent at bats? I would hope that he could put down the tissues long enough to focus on a two minute AB.
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If only the Chubs didn't spend all that money on Soriano and his ballerina, queer eye for the straight guy prance every time he catches the ball, sigh, but you are the Chubs.
When you have people come to the ballpark (and not just for a Doug Melvin bobblehead) you can spend your money.
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When you have people come to the ballpark (and not just for a Doug Melvin bobblehead) you can spend your money.
you're right, one of the smallest market teams in the MLB is running at 87% capacity.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2009-04-29-mlb-attendance_N.htm
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you're right, one of the smallest market teams in the MLB is running at 87% capacity.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2009-04-29-mlb-attendance_N.htm
And that has nothing to do with 6 out of 17 home games being against the Cubs.
Looks like they had less than 70% last night.
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And that has nothing to do with 6 out of 17 home games being against the Cubs.
Looks like they had less than 70% last night.
70% on a Tuesday night is bad?
Really?
opening weekend in Milwaukee is going to sell out no matter who they are playing. I'll give you 3 games against the Cubs, but the opening weekend is a moot point.
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70% on a Tuesday night is bad?
Really?
opening weekend in Milwaukee is going to sell out no matter who they are playing. I'll give you 3 games against the Cubs, but the opening weekend is a moot point.
70% was being generous....the Brewers haven't sold out the entire opening weekend in years....until they played the Cubs. They probably drew pretty well last year for the first weekend but other than that....not even close.
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no matter who they played this season they would have sold out opening weekend.
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ok
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which I can easily claim and have no proof.
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which I can easily claim and have no proof.
Ha...gotcha...it's not a stretch to think that by any means but guess there's no way of knowing.
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Ha...gotcha...it's not a stretch to think that by any means but guess there's no way of knowing.
To guarantee playoff tix I believe you could buy 10/20 packs for this season (which included opening day tix). I don't think it was known that we would be opening with the Cubs this season. Therefore, we would have sold out no matter who came for the first series this year. Milwaukee fans were eager to kick off the baseball season.
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Everybody knew Gagne was washed up but Melvin it appears.
If that's your view on steroids in baseball (and one that's shared by just about anyone following the sport), then why bring up the 'face of the franchise' thing in the first place...what's the difference then if the majority of players are doing it? If that's the case then it's probable that the face of the Brewers franchise in '98 was probably doing them too...the only difference is nobody knows who that was.
The first few times I saw Turnbow pitch I remember thinking the Cubs are f*cked, because he had great stuff...then he turned into Farnsworth.
What does Braun's crying have to do with what he does in subsequent at bats? I would hope that he could put down the tissues long enough to focus on a two minute AB.
It appears so. It seems like he figured that out this year.
I just think it's funny that someone makes fun of Sammy Sosa, the face of the Chicago Scrubs for 10 years, for being on steroids, and the response by a Scrubs fan is to bring up 2 players who meant absolutely nothing to the Milwaukee Brewers while they played for 1 season in Milwaukee.
If by great stuff you meant a 97 mph fastball that was straight as a line yet he couldn't control it, so it was either going yard or a walk, then yes, he had great stuff. Same deal with Capellan a couple years back. I hated those 2.
You Scrubs fans always talk about him crying for so long after he gets hit. I just wonder how he is able to skeet all over the face of those pitchers who hit him if he is that busy crying. In fact the only time I heard him complain about being hit was after the Pirates hit him, and he was saying in hind site that the pitch was too high. You all make it sound like he complains every time he gets hit, when in reality he goes yard in the next at bat much more often than he complains about it.
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I just think it's funny that someone makes fun of Sammy Sosa, the face of the Chicago Scrubs for 10 years, for being on steroids, and the response by a Scrubs fan is to bring up 2 players who meant absolutely nothing to the Milwaukee Brewers while they played for 1 season in Milwaukee.
If by great stuff you meant a 97 mph fastball that was straight as a line yet he couldn't control it, so it was either going yard or a walk, then yes, he had great stuff. Same deal with Capellan a couple years back. I hated those 2.
You Scrubs fans always talk about him crying for so long after he gets hit. I just wonder how he is able to skeet all over the face of those pitchers who hit him if he is that busy crying. In fact the only time I heard him complain about being hit was after the Pirates hit him, and he was saying in hind site that the pitch was too high. You all make it sound like he complains every time he gets hit, when in reality he goes yard in the next at bat much more often than he complains about it.
This point has been made already....we'll try again....the point of bringing up Turnbow and Gagne was they actually tested positive (Turnbow being the first to ever do so)....it's really not that complicated. Like it or not, something Sammy never did. Facts are facts. I'm not sure what's so confusing about this. Yes, Sosa was the marquee player on the Cubs for a long time...as he would've been on any other team. Three 60 HR seasons and an MVP will do that....allegedly juiced or not. Frankly, who cares? Things are clearly different now. I'm sure Geoff Jenkins was fun to watch though. (please turn this into a long drawn out debate over Sosa, that would be great)
I'm pretty sure Turnbow was meaningful to Brewer fans when he was saving 40 games...he was on the opening day roster for at least 4 years...Gagne was just a disaster.
In terms of Braun...another point that was already made....his crying and his success in future ABs are not mutually exclusive events. He was complaining about the Pittsburgh thing for days...against the Cubs he was squaring around to bunt, the ball came inside and hit his bat...he got a free base instead of a strike...live with it. The Cubs are down by 2 in the bottom of the 7th, do you think they want to put someone on in front of Fielder? Instead, he takes first base and is crying the whole time standing there. He's developing quite a repuation. Watch for yourself. Then he changes his tune in the post-game press conference saying he didn't think it was intentional....well, which is it?
http://www.brewcrewball.com/2009/5/10/870960/why-bob-brenly-hates-ryan-braun
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Sosa, Bonds, and Clemens all never tested positive... and since they never tested positive MarquetteFan94... can you honestly 100% say they were clean?
Because I think I can honestly 100% say that all three took some sort of steroid, and I(with America) doesn't need a positive result to say that.
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This point has been made already....we'll try again....the point of bringing up Turnbow and Gagne was they actually tested positive (Turnbow being the first to ever do so)....it's really not that complicated. Like it or not, something Sammy never did. Facts are facts. I'm not sure what's so confusing about this. Yes, Sosa was the marquee player on the Cubs for a long time...as he would've been on any other team. Three 60 HR seasons and an MVP will do that....allegedly juiced or not. Frankly, who cares? Things are clearly different now. I'm sure Geoff Jenkins was fun to watch though. (please turn this into a long drawn out debate over Sosa, that would be great)
I'm pretty sure Turnbow was meaningful to Brewer fans when he was saving 40 games...he was on the opening day roster for at least 4 years...Gagne was just a disaster.
In terms of Braun...another point that was already made....his crying and his success in future ABs are not mutually exclusive events. He was complaining about the Pittsburgh thing for days...against the Cubs he was squaring around to bunt, the ball came inside and hit his bat...he got a free base instead of a strike...live with it. The Cubs are down by 2 in the bottom of the 7th, do you think they want to put someone on in front of Fielder? Instead, he takes first base and is crying the whole time standing there. He's developing quite a repuation. Watch for yourself. Then he changes his tune in the post-game press conference saying he didn't think it was intentional....well, which is it?
http://www.brewcrewball.com/2009/5/10/870960/why-bob-brenly-hates-ryan-braun
I'm not saying Sosa was bad, or bad to have on the team. He roided, he dominated, the end. I would've loved for him to be a Brewer because he was good.
I never liked Turnbow. I'm not saying no fans did, or nobody did. I personally did not.
He was crying for days? Really? I saw 1 article with 1 quote in it. That is it. Yes, on 1B he was complaining about a pitch coming for his head. You wouldn't? Let's forget about whether it actually hit his helmet or not before hitting the bat. Regardless, it came very, very close to his head. You're telling me that would not be scary? A lot of people would have started started yelling at the pitcher, maybe clearing the bench for that. Yes, he complained about it. You're kidding yourself if you say a lot of people would NOT complain about that, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT HIT HIS HEAD OR NOT...IT WAS WAY TOO CLOSE FOR COMFORT.
And then he nutted on Dumpster and laughed in his face while doing so. The end.
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Sosa, Bonds, and Clemens all never tested positive... and since they never tested positive MarquetteFan94... can you honestly 100% say they were clean?
Because I think I can honestly 100% say that all three took some sort of steroid, and I(with America) doesn't need a positive result to say that.
Well put
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Sosa, Bonds, and Clemens all never tested positive... and since they never tested positive MarquetteFan94... can you honestly 100% say they were clean?
Because I think I can honestly 100% say that all three took some sort of steroid, and I(with America) doesn't need a positive result to say that.
Of course you can't say they were clean....and I've already said as much about Sosa....all you have to do is compare pictures of the guy. Baseball wasn't testing then...that's the point. The players mentioned tested positive, Sosa has not. Anyone who thinks Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, Clemens and countless others didn't use then they need to have their heads examined....which I've said all along.
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I'm not saying Sosa was bad, or bad to have on the team. He roided, he dominated, the end. I would've loved for him to be a Brewer because he was good.
I never liked Turnbow. I'm not saying no fans did, or nobody did. I personally did not.
He was crying for days? Really? I saw 1 article with 1 quote in it. That is it. Yes, on 1B he was complaining about a pitch coming for his head. You wouldn't? Let's forget about whether it actually hit his helmet or not before hitting the bat. Regardless, it came very, very close to his head. You're telling me that would not be scary? A lot of people would have started started yelling at the pitcher, maybe clearing the bench for that. Yes, he complained about it. You're kidding yourself if you say a lot of people would NOT complain about that, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT HIT HIS HEAD OR NOT...IT WAS WAY TOO CLOSE FOR COMFORT.
And then he nutted on Dumpster and laughed in his face while doing so. The end.
Can we stop with the ejaculation references already? It's becoming worrisome. We get it, he hit a home run off Dempster in his next AB.
You're asking me what I'd do if I just got buzzed by a 90mph fastball in the major leagues? As much as I'd like to, I'm not qualified to answer that question. Being scared out of your mind is one thing but sitting there pointing to the pitcher, yapping it up is another....it's part of the game and even he apparently thought it was not intentional an hour later.
Braun complainig:
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/04/29/ryan-braun-is-still-upset/
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Of course you can't say they were clean....and I've already said as much about Sosa....all you have to do is compare pictures of the guy. Baseball wasn't testing then...that's the point. The players mentioned tested positive, Sosa has not. Anyone who thinks Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, Clemens and countless others didn't use then they need to have their heads examined....which I've said all along.
So then can both sides (Cubs and Brewers) stop pointing fingers as to who had more players take steroids... both teams are guilty, why point fingers at opposing team players?
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You're asking me what I'd do if I just got buzzed by a 90mph fastball in the major leagues? As much as I'd like to, I'm not qualified to answer that question. Being scared out of your mind is one thing but sitting there pointing to the pitcher, yapping it up is another....it's part of the game and even he apparently thought it was not intentional an hour later.
Braun complainig:
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/04/29/ryan-braun-is-still-upset/
Fair enough about not knowing what you'd do, but honestly, how many times have you seen benches clear because a ball was thrown above a person's head, behind a person, etc.? It happens ALL the time. Yes, Braun yapped at him while he was at first. Many people yap at the pitcher while they're still in the box, walking to first, etc. and the benches end up clearing. You're acting as if he's the only player in the MLB who would do this. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME! You're kidding yourself if you don't think people would yap at first base after having a baseball hit/come within centimeters of hitting/whatever you want to call that pitch your head unless it was Ryan Braun.
Did you see Josh Beckett throw over the head of...forget who it was, but a brawl started. Did you see Game 3 of the NLCS last year...the benches cleared. Etc. It happens man. Should we label everyone a crybaby who has taken part in a brawl? What do you call Zambrano? He was TAKING HIS BELT OFF DURING A BRAWL. What a joke that was. Is he a crybaby?
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3 way tie atop the NL Central. St. Louis and Milwaukee are obviously in it. Who else?
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Wadesworld, as a fellow Brewers fan I appreciate your passion, but could you please stop using lame nicknames (Scrubs, Chubs etc) for the Cubs? You sound like JayBee and his constant use of the highly original term "fudge Packers." Tiresome.
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Wadesworld, as a fellow Brewers fan I appreciate your passion, but could you please stop using lame nicknames (Scrubs, Chubs etc) for the Cubs? You sound like JayBee and his constant use of the highly original term "fudge Packers." Tiresome.
But it's SO clever.
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3 way tie atop the NL Central. St. Louis and Milwaukee are obviously in it. Who else?
Ha...seriously, pop the champagne. It's getting late in the season, I hope the Cubs can somehow overcome their half-game deficit over the next 129 games. At least we have a better home record.
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But it's SO clever.
Nah, I wouldn't necessarily say clever. I'd just say it's more of the truth. It is what they are, just scrubs. I could always change it up and refer to them as Completely Useless By September, which they also are.
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Nah, I wouldn't necessarily say clever. I'd just say it's more of the truth. It is what they are, just scrubs. I could always change it up and refer to them as Completely Useless By September, which they also are.
Do you refer to the team that has won back to back division titles?
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Do you refer to the team that has won back to back division titles?
I'm confused, are division titles the same as world championships?
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Regardless of their name.. have we looked at the standings...
Holy Moly, I mean I understand that we are 34-35 games in, but goodness
Cinci, Mil and StL all 20-14
Cubbies at 19-14
I know its early, but this could be an extremely fun summer.
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I'm confused, are division titles the same as world championships?
Are world Championships played in September?
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Regardless of their name.. have we looked at the standings...
Holy Moly, I mean I understand that we are 34-35 games in, but goodness
Cinci, Mil and StL all 20-14
Cubbies at 19-14
I know its early, but this could be an extremely fun summer.
Especially when you consider this is the same record the Cubs had after 33 games last year.
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What are we thinking is a realistic amount of wins to win the division?
I am saying 89-91
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What are we thinking is a realistic amount of wins to win the division?
I am saying 89-91
93+
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What are we thinking is a realistic amount of wins to win the division?
I am saying 89-91
It will be tops in the National League.
Whatever that may be.
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3347/3530885565_b89e713e0f.jpg?v=0)
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(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3347/3530885565_b89e713e0f.jpg?v=0)
...okay?
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CAN I PLAY!?
(http://www.thedirty.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/alfonso-soriano-keri-9.jpg)
(http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/deadspin/2008/09/sorianofinger.jpg)
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OMG is that soriano with a girl?
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I didn't realize Braun was the founder of this Remetee brand of Affliction.
This shirt looks awful.
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wadesworld, how are you playing? That isn't very insulting to Soriano.
However, this is hilarious.
(http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/solissf_2048_348051996)
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wadesworld, how are you playing? That isn't very insulting to Soriano.
However, this is hilarious.
(http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/solissf_2048_348051996)
It isn't? I'd rather have my all-star in a weird picture advertising his own shirt (which, by the way, is the norm in Southern California if you haven't been down there, so really to a lot of people it's not that hilarious...I agree it's weird though, not my type of clothing, but where he's from almost everyone wears it) then having my all-star with 2 middle fingers in the air and with a girl all over him while he's in a beater and clearly drunk. I understand they have a life outside of baseball too, he's not the only one who has been seen in public drinking, kissing girls, etc., but I'd rather have my all-star advertising a shirt than flipping the bird.
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It isn't? I'd rather have my all-star in a weird picture advertising his own shirt (which, by the way, is the norm in Southern California if you haven't been down there, so really to a lot of people it's not that hilarious...I agree it's weird though, not my type of clothing, but where he's from almost everyone wears it) then having my all-star with 2 middle fingers in the air and with a girl all over him while he's in a beater and clearly drunk. I understand they have a life outside of baseball too, he's not the only one who has been seen in public drinking, kissing girls, etc., but I'd rather have my all-star advertising a shirt than flipping the bird.
I'd rather have my all-star with a lady, rather then, well modeling clothes and looking like a homosexual.
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I'd rather have my all-star with a lady, rather then, well modeling clothes and looking like a homosexual.
Haha well hat all-star who is "modeling clothes and looking like a homosexual" has a much, MUCH better looking girl than the 1 who looks pretty classless.
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This is probably the greatest article ever on Ryan Braun!
http://hirejimessian.com/2009/05/14/ryan-braun-is-a-tw/ (http://hirejimessian.com/2009/05/14/ryan-braun-is-a-tw/)
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I'd rather have my all-star with a lady, rather then, well modeling clothes and looking like a homosexual.
How the hell does that make him look gay? Really?
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Soriano's not the only one getting the ladies....
(http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2748/127/56/1531285847/n1531285847_30281911_665280.jpg)
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This is probably the greatest article ever on Ryan Braun!
http://hirejimessian.com/2009/05/14/ryan-braun-is-a-tw/ (http://hirejimessian.com/2009/05/14/ryan-braun-is-a-tw/)
Seriously? Still this? Wouldn't it just be way too convenient that Dumpster just happened to let one slip away from him on the one guy that the Scrubbies can't stand in a game that the Brewers are already up by 3?
Not to mention, yet again, would an umpire REALLY mistake the sound of a baseball hitting a helmet and the sound of a baseball hitting a bat? Yes, it hit the bat, but who has ever said it can't hit the helmet and ricochet to hit the bat? I find it hard to believe that the umpire would award him first base if he didn't hear the ball hit the helmet. I would put $100 on the fact that an MLB home plate umpire knows the sound of a baseball hitting a bat, and that he knows it's not the same as a baseball hitting a baseball helmet. Not to mention, why did the Scrubs not complain about the call if it wasn't the right call? You REALLY think Lou Piniella would just give somebody first base if he thought it should just be a strike?
And yet again, is Ryan Braun really the only person who would complain after a ball came at his head? Seriously? How many brawls have there been because players have a ball thrown FAR over their head? I provided 2 examples earlier. I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how this makes Ryan Braun a crybaby but not others. Seriously please explain yourself. Hell Derrick Lee had some words for Chris Young after he threw at him, which started a brawl between the Scrubs and Padres. Is he a crybaby? Please answer me this.
You all are obsessed. I know, he kills you so you look for any bad thing about him. I get it. Move on.
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This is probably the greatest article ever on Ryan Braun!
http://hirejimessian.com/2009/05/14/ryan-braun-is-a-tw/ (http://hirejimessian.com/2009/05/14/ryan-braun-is-a-tw/)
So they are an [egregious] play on "Fire Joe Morgan" and aren't nearly as funny...???
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Seriously? Still this? Wouldn't it just be way too convenient that Dumpster just happened to let one slip away from him on the one guy that the Scrubbies can't stand in a game that the Brewers are already up by 3?
Not to mention, yet again, would an umpire REALLY mistake the sound of a baseball hitting a helmet and the sound of a baseball hitting a bat? Yes, it hit the bat, but who has ever said it can't hit the helmet and ricochet to hit the bat? I find it hard to believe that the umpire would award him first base if he didn't hear the ball hit the helmet. I would put $100 on the fact that an MLB home plate umpire knows the sound of a baseball hitting a bat, and that he knows it's not the same as a baseball hitting a baseball helmet. Not to mention, why did the Scrubs not complain about the call if it wasn't the right call? You REALLY think Lou Piniella would just give somebody first base if he thought it should just be a strike?
OK. Now we can all move on...
http://espn.go.com/chicago/story?id=4165446 (http://espn.go.com/chicago/story?id=4165446)
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I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how this makes Ryan Braun a crybaby but not others.
More so Ken Macha is a crybaby. He cried to the media asking Bob Watson to review the play.
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I'd rather have my all-star with a lady, rather then, well modeling clothes and looking like a homosexual.
I guess I'd rather have my star be an entrepreneur than a classless, fairy dancing, bird flippin', trashy looking douche chasing tail-let's be generous and call her a 6.8 and with 2>x<5 STDs.
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I love how you are challenging Braun's ability to pick up women when there is speculation that he has been with BOTH Marissa Miller and Erin Andrews.
Soriano can keep that girl that looks like she just stepped off the set of "For the Love of Ray J"...
Plus. Braun is from So Cal... he went to college at Miami... you didn't expect him to be wearing Ed Hardy type shirts? Come on, I figured YOU, as a Cub fan, would have more common sense.
And Hell.. Captain Lou is falling behind Mr. Belding, the real middle-age to old-age master of the ladies
(http://yepyep.gibbs12.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/_0008_belding18_full.jpg)
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http://espn.go.com/chicago/story?id=4167312
Haha what a joke he is. His first at bat at Wrigley and he gets suspended! Not to mention, $30 million for him?! HAHAHAHAHAHA man, people make fun of the Brewers for their signings...the Scrubbies are even worse!
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ted_keith/05/14/power.rankings/index.html
Oops
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ted_keith/05/14/power.rankings/index.html
Oops
Cue 94 saying "Congrats Brewer Fans on being the team the higher power rating in mid-May."
Then TT, I am sure with his whiz-kid like photoshop skills will come up with a clever banner.
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Cue 94 saying "Congrats Brewer Fans on being the team the higher power rating in mid-May."
Then TT, I am sure with his whiz-kid like photoshop skills will come up with a clever banner.
I'm sure the Brewers were even higher 2 years ago when they were 25-10 at this point, and how did that turn out?
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I'm sure the Brewers were even higher 2 years ago when they were 25-10 at this point, and how did that turn out?
about the same as it has for the cubs for the last century.
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I'd rather have my all-star with a lady, rather then, well modeling clothes and looking like a homosexual.
Homosexual...Definitley the thing that comes to mind where Braun is concerned. Is there an MLB players more popular with the ladies right now?
Somebody seems to like how he dresses...
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3176/2674456084_af74a67083.jpg) (http://www.procanes.com/files/page18_blog_entry3079_1.jpg)
Pretty bigoted comment I might add. How does a homosexual look?
Strong showing on your part. Really.
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How does a homosexual look?
Kinda like this
(http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/solissf_2049_627669120)
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it is a well known fact that cubs players would never dress in something like that
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Kinda like this
(http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/solissf_2049_627669120)
I despise the Cubs and love the Brewers, and had to laugh at that.
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We'd be stylin
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3031/2988627962_26f8d674b1_b.jpg)
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Just wasted a good ten minutes on this site, and plan to go back.
http://drunkathlete.com/
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More so Ken Macha is a crybaby. He cried to the media asking Bob Watson to review the play.
OOOOHHHHH so after 3 pages of Braun being the crybaby it is now MACHA who is the crybaby. I get it now! A manager questioning a pitch at his best player's head? NOOOOOO! OH MY GOSH what a crybaby!
Haha I find any Scrubs fan calling any manager but their own a crybaby an absolute joke.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX036rh4k2E
What are we, 3? Didn't get our way so we're going to throw a temper tantrum and kick dirt at the guy who took something away from us? By the way, when is he going to get a walker to make it out to the mound? It would make things go much faster.
And the follow up of "Sweet" Lou getting tossed at Wrigley:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ots9Z0Y8RZM
REALLY classy, Chicago fans. Really. Really commendable. Just like when they threw things at Braun during a play (in which he got an outfield assist...despite being AWFUL defensively...)
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OOOOHHHHH so after 3 pages of Braun being the crybaby it is now MACHA who is the crybaby. I get it now! A manager questioning a pitch at his best player's head? NOOOOOO! OH MY GOSH what a crybaby!
Haha I find any Scrubs fan calling any manager but their own a crybaby an absolute joke.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX036rh4k2E
What are we, 3? Didn't get our way so we're going to throw a temper tantrum and kick dirt at the guy who took something away from us? By the way, when is he going to get a walker to make it out to the mound? It would make things go much faster.
And the follow up of "Sweet" Lou getting tossed at Wrigley:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ots9Z0Y8RZM
REALLY classy, Chicago fans. Really. Really commendable. Just like when they threw things at Braun during a play (in which he got an outfield assist...despite being AWFUL defensively...)
Do you actually try to make sense when you post? Or are you just SO filled with anger that whatever comes out, comes out?
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Do you actually try to make sense when you post? Or are you just SO filled with anger that whatever comes out, comes out?
Please explain what doesn't make sense. Then I'll be able to answer that question.
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Please explain what doesn't make sense. Then I'll be able to answer that question.
Basically your thoughts and logic in general.
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Somebody better inform these ballplayers getting their pick of women that according to marqptm they are actually gay, and apparently, despite what Seinfeld says, there is in fact something wrong with that.
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marqptm...
I believe what he was getting at is it is foolish for Cub fans to argue about Macha being a crybaby when in fact the Cubs might have the whiniest coach in the league.
I guess he most likely figured that since YOU, as a Cub fan, would have the intelligence and common sense to understand what he was getting at through his rant he calls a post...
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Wasn't Yost ejected more than Lou last year?
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Wasn't Yost ejected more than Lou last year?
Hasn't Lou been ejected more than anyone, ever?
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Hasn't Lou been ejected more than anyone, ever?
Way to know your history! Actually recent history! Bobby Cox has been thrown out the most in history. Nice try though Hards, your effort to bring useful knowledge to this conversation was great!
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Generally, successful coaches like Lou aren't afraid to get out there and argue a call. Arguing is not the same as whining.
Talking to the press and complaining to the press about a blown call to begin with. That is indeed whining.
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Way to know your history! Actually recent history! Bobby Cox has been thrown out the most in history. Nice try though Hards, your effort to bring useful knowledge to this conversation was great!
first, it was a question.
and if he isn't first, he has got to be second.
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As of June 23, 2007
1) Bobby Cox 131
2) John McGraw 117
3) Earl Weaver 97
...
7) Joe Torre 60
8) Lou Pinella 58
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As of June 23, 2007
1) Bobby Cox 131
2) John McGraw 117
3) Earl Weaver 97
...
7) Joe Torre 60
8) Lou Pinella 58
and if he's not first, he's not even close.
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Generally, successful coaches like Lou aren't afraid to get out there and argue a call. Arguing is not the same as whining.
Talking to the press and complaining to the press about a blown call to begin with. That is indeed whining.
Because everytime Lou walks out there to "argue"... you have a special microphone to hear exactly what he is saying. Yup, gotcha.
You don't have a clue what he is saying to an Ump
And yes, chucking dirt onto an umps feet or taking a base is some quality arguing, sure gets your point across in a professional manner. When Lou goes to argue he puts on a show, hes a clown when he argues. But don't call it whining... oh no, hes got a giant C on his chest, it can't be whining.
Why is it that everything to you that is related to the Cubs is holier than thou, where anything from Milwaukee is dirt? Your team hasn't won a title since Roosevelt, Teddy not FDR. Your team year in and year out overpays to get mediocre results. When you go to games at Wrigley more than half of the fans are obnoxious, terrible baseball fans. Old Style is a crapty beer. You have an outdated falling apart stadium that although is a true classic(I do mean this), it is in some dyer need for repair(I also mean this).
What the hell makes anything a Cub touch Gold, and anything a Brewer touches piss water in your eyes?
Do I think Brewers are holier than thou? Hell no, I'll still tell you that I am scared of our rotation, middle of the order (5-8), ability to sustain for a full season. Do I think Miller Park is the greatest building in the world, hell no! I recognize the flaws in the system, however also realize that it is nice to go to games there, it is fun, tickets are extremely cheap, and the Sausage Races are a ton of fun (much better than B-List celebrities singing the National Anthem).
The difference between me as a Brewer Fan, and pretty much every Cubs fan I have ever met, which is most likely why the country hates Cubs fans (we lump the Red Sox in here too)... is that you guys think you walk on water, Noah built Wrigley, not the ark, no matter what, if it has a Cubs logo on it, its the best.
Get over it, you guys have to compete with the Milwaukee Brewers, stop throwing us down, we won't go away.
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and if he's not first, he's not even close.
Easy PTM...he may be up to 60 right now...
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Because everytime Lou walks out there to "argue"... you have a special microphone to hear exactly what he is saying. Yup, gotcha.
You don't have a clue what he is saying to an Ump
And yes, chucking dirt onto an umps feet or taking a base is some quality arguing, sure gets your point across in a professional manner. When Lou goes to argue he puts on a show, hes a clown when he argues. But don't call it whining... oh no, hes got a giant C on his chest, it can't be whining.
Why is it that everything to you that is related to the Cubs is holier than thou, where anything from Milwaukee is dirt? Your team hasn't won a title since Roosevelt, Teddy not FDR. Your team year in and year out overpays to get mediocre results. When you go to games at Wrigley more than half of the fans are obnoxious, terrible baseball fans. Old Style is a crapty beer. You have an outdated falling apart stadium that although is a true classic(I do mean this), it is in some dyer need for repair(I also mean this).
What the hell makes anything a Cub touch Gold, and anything a Brewer touches piss water in your eyes?
Do I think Brewers are holier than thou? Hell no, I'll still tell you that I am scared of our rotation, middle of the order (5-8), ability to sustain for a full season. Do I think Miller Park is the greatest building in the world, hell no! I recognize the flaws in the system, however also realize that it is nice to go to games there, it is fun, tickets are extremely cheap, and the Sausage Races are a ton of fun (much better than B-List celebrities singing the National Anthem).
The difference between me as a Brewer Fan, and pretty much every Cubs fan I have ever met, which is most likely why the country hates Cubs fans (we lump the Red Sox in here too)... is that you guys think you walk on water, Noah built Wrigley, not the ark, no matter what, if it has a Cubs logo on it, its the best.
Get over it, you guys have to compete with the Milwaukee Brewers, stop throwing us down, we won't go away.
I love these long rants. So good.
Let me know the next time Lou has to sit down with the media and whine about having a player thrown at. It won't happen, you take care of it yourself, not with the media.
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I love these long rants. So good.
Let me know the next time Lou has to sit down with the media and whine about having a player thrown at. It won't happen, you take care of it yourself, not with the media.
I'm proud of your ability to address the first two sentences of his post and completely ignore the rest, which paints a pretty real picture of Cubs fans' sense of entitlement despite the fact that you've been perennial losers come playoff time since your parent's parents were supporting the Cubbies.
I realize we haven't won a World Series yet, but heck, we've been here for 39 years. At least let us get within 5 decades of your legendary ineptitude before you start comparing yours to ours.
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I love these long rants. So good.
Let me know the next time Lou has to sit down with the media and whine about having a player thrown at. It won't happen, you take care of it yourself, not with the media.
so kicking dirt, and throwing bases isn't whining, but talking to the media about pitchers throwing at his all star is.
awesome world you must live in that you can tailor definitions to fit your argument, even though they make zero sense.
as for Lou getting thrown out, I was wrong, I'll admit it... clearly I thought it was more, and I was wrong.
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As far as the cubs go...lou has kicked a hat!
If you would like to yell about Lou throwing bases, please take that to the Seattle Mariners Texas Rangers pissing match.
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As far as the cubs go...lou has kicked a hat!
If you would like to yell about Lou throwing bases, please take that to the Seattle Mariners Texas Rangers pissing match.
Wasn't Yost ejected more than Lou last year?
Haha so...what your current manager did in his previous jobs doesn't matter, yet what the Brewers former manager, who is in no way affiliated with the Milwaukee Brewers at this time, did counts against the Brewers? Your arguments are a joke!
I love these long rants. So good.
Let me know the next time Lou has to sit down with the media and whine about having a player thrown at. It won't happen, you take care of it yourself, not with the media.
Let me know next time Macha throws a temper tantrum and kicks dirt at an umpire like a kid during his terrible 2s. It won't happen. But no, that's not whining, that's professionally arguing a call.
LET'S GET REAL HERE! IF IT APPLIES TO 1 SIDE IT APPLIES TO BOTH!
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(http://www.joesportsfan.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/wrigley-monkey.jpg)
rob or ptm?
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NavinRJohnson?
http://www.youtube.com/v/8yilHiWHJ_I&hl=en&fs=1
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NavinRJohnson?
I don't get it. Is Miller Park known as a popular place for stacking cups on a guys head, much the way Wrigley Field is recognized as a popular spot for shirtless, chest shaving, Sammy, Sammy, Sammy chanting, Cubbbbbbbiiieees yelling, backward hat, mardi gras bead wearing douche bags?
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Riggghhhhttt because the Brewers don't have grown men fans who wear Burger Kung crowns on their heads. And then there was the Buckethead Brigade.
It's dumb to bring fans into it because both teams have dumbass fans.
(http://www.mlb.com/images/2004/03/28/Ive8uOTn.jpg)
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings
5th place? Weird.
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Are you blind or something the cubs are in 2nd place
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Just curious....How many years has this thread been going on?
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Hey Ricer, can you read?
A loyal Cubs supporter predicted and huffed and puffed earlier in this thread about the Brewers finishing in 5th place in the Central this season.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings
5th place? Weird.
Congrats on being in first place on May 16th and having a 1.5 game lead over the 4th place team in the division. Why don't you just order your 2009 NL Central Champions hat and shirt now, you could probably get a good deal.
by the way reinko, what do you classify as huffing and puffing?
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Are you blind or something the cubs are in 2nd place
Typical Cubs fan thinking every post pertains to the Flubs. (Sorry I have no horse in this race, just love the constant fake names for the Cubs).
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings
5th place? Weird.
Haha worst post ever.
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You know, it's funny... I just took the time to read over the past few pages and there's some really interesting stuff. Even more interesting now, because the first time I saw all of the complaining about Braun "faking" the bean ball, whether or not there was intent from Dempster, the "hirejimessian" blog entry, ptm and TT's constant bickering about what a pansy Braun is for whining and crying (oh, the irony), all I interpreted was this:
WAHHHHHHHH BRAUN **** ON THE CUBS AGAIN! WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
But now, the second time through, I see some really, really quality posting. Kudos to all.
Either learn to pitch around him, or even better, actually figure out a way to get him out, and you wouldn't have to deal with it anymore.
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Typical Cubs fan thinking every post pertains to the Flubs. (Sorry I have no horse in this race, just love the constant fake names for the Cubs).
Hey Ricer, can you read?
A loyal Cubs supporter predicted and huffed and puffed earlier in this thread about the Brewers finishing in 5th place in the Central this season.
Haha you guys nailed it.
Haha worst post ever.
I'd take mine over yours.
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by the way reinko, what do you classify as huffing and puffing?
whining and crying like the lil girl you are? (I've missed you brah-seph) No matter how many or few games it is though, 1st place is a lot different than 5th. And right now the brewers have everything Going for em.
as Cubs fans or Brewer fans can we agree on this one thing: That this guy. Is such a colossal d-bag that upon seeing him at a brewer game he should be cracked in the face by any self respecting fan. To steal as many baseballs as he does, you gotta knock over a few 4 year olds, and he's probably proud of it. (http://deadspin.com/5257475/rookie-millionaire-versus-obsessive-super-fan-+-who-ya-got)
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whining and crying like the lil girl you are? (I've missed you brah-seph) No matter how many or few games it is though, 1st place is a lot different than 5th. And right now the brewers have everything Going for em.
as Cubs fans or Brewer fans can we agree on this one thing: That this guy. Is such a colossal d-bag that upon seeing him at a brewer game he should be cracked in the face by any self respecting fan. To steal as many baseballs as he does, you gotta knock over a few 4 year olds, and he's probably proud of it.
(http://deadspin.com/5257475/rookie-millionaire-versus-obsessive-super-fan-+-who-ya-got)
You know he's a d-bag because if you click through to his personal blog, you'll see that his profile picture is him leaning over the outfield wall into the field of play, pretending to make a catch.
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See finally something we can agree on!
That Brewer fan ballhawk is in fact a d-bag. Likewise, there is a ballhawk at Wrigley who wears camo pants and is also a large d-bag knocking everyone down in the bleachers. Must be a ballhawk thing?
EDIT: Here's the ballhawks side of the story with pics. http://thehappyyoungster.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/05/51309_miller_park.html (http://thehappyyoungster.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/05/51309_miller_park.html)
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Definition of gay?
That Happy Youngster.
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The Happy Youngster sucks! My friends had a run in with him and his family back in 2001. His dad sucks. His wife looks like an ogre. And he is just a certified POS!
Go Brewers!
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The Happy Youngster may be douche and an A**hole, but that really doesn't matter. When the ball enters the stand it belongs to whomever catches it. At that point he has the right to demand whatever he wants for it. If it is worth more to the player than it is to the happy youngster, then he should pay up for it, if not then let the guy keep the baseball, simple as that and don't complain about having to pay up for it, as no one is forcing you to submit to his demands.
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The Happy Youngster may be douche and an A**hole, but that really doesn't matter. When the ball enters the stand it belongs to whomever catches it. At that point he has the right to demand whatever he wants for it. If it is worth more to the player than it is to the happy youngster, then he should pay up for it, if not then let the guy keep the baseball, simple as that and don't complain about having to pay up for it, as no one is forcing you to submit to his demands.
Welcome to the board, Happy!
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use of the word ransom implies previous ownership which the player did not have.
it is perfectly appropriate to demand what he wants as a fair price for the ball.
what if you were there to catch Fielder's, Pujol's, or Bond's first homer (or heck, any of Bond's homers)? Would you just give the ball back?
Now, I am not saying I would have acted like this guy, but I wouldn't have just given up the ball either.
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The Happy Youngster may be douche and an A**hole, but that really doesn't matter. When the ball enters the stand it belongs to whomever catches it. At that point he has the right to demand whatever he wants for it. If it is worth more to the player than it is to the happy youngster, then he should pay up for it, if not then let the guy keep the baseball, simple as that and don't complain about having to pay up for it, as no one is forcing you to submit to his demands.
I think it's more the fact that the Happy Youngster was far from a decent human being in the process.
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Agreed ptm, dude like this deserves a throat punch.
It's more about decency really. Clearly this ball was, and should be important to the player. The "happy douche", was trying to use this as leverage. Because really this dork lives for these situations, and it finally paid off for him. Hope he enjoys his bat (that will most likely end up on eBay), and those $9 Marlins tickets. I'm sure being ridiculed on Deadspin, and boo'ed by Brewer fans next time he hawks a ball was worth it.
Ass.
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The Happy Youngster may be douche and an A**hole, but that really doesn't matter. When the ball enters the stand it belongs to whomever catches it. At that point he has the right to demand whatever he wants for it. If it is worth more to the player than it is to the happy youngster, then he should pay up for it, if not then let the guy keep the baseball, simple as that and don't complain about having to pay up for it, as no one is forcing you to submit to his demands.
I've caught a few balls before, HR from an opposing player -I threw it back- a foul ball and one tossed into the stands at the end an inning, both of which I gave to lil kids who were too young to really appreciate a game but were happy as hell to chew on a baseball. It's really just a ball. And I hate the "they are millionaires" line as well, that doesn't warrant extortion of a baseball. This is one of those scenarios where a small minority makes the majority look bad. The only way I'd demand anything for a ball was if the player was a colossal asshat (Bonds, Sosa Sheffield etc).
--------------on a whole new note---------
http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/pitw/2009/05/gamel_gone_sounds_top_prospect.php
He was gonna be our DH for the inter league games, but with Rickie Gone for the season maybe we'll try him in the field.
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http://deadspin.com/5259657/brewers-fans-want-everyone-to-know-they-dont-like-the-happy-youngster-either
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/fish_bytes/2009/05/fan-drives-hard-bargain-for-coghlans-first-home-run-ball.html
http://www.millerparkdrunk.com/fans/the-happy-youngster-is-a-douchebag-who-makes-us-all-look-bad/
The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel's Tom Haudricourt weighs in:
Maybe he should also detail how he held up Geoff Jenkins for his 200th home run ball a few years by demanding Prince Fielder autographed bats, etc. Nothing like holding balls for the highest ransom, huh? He talks about classy moves in his blog. Would you call that a classy move on his part? Why should Geoff Jenkins have to go and ask Prince Fielder to sign stuff so Jenkins can retrieve a milestone homer? If you were a true Brewers fan, wouldn't you make it easy on a player who was the face of the franchise all those years?
Swear to all things Holy... I see this f-stick at a game, I'm gonna punch him the throat.
Maybe he'll off himself, or at least recoil into his parents basement in shame knowing that the world hates him.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/clip?id=4176831&categoryid=2521705
Ooops. #1 Web Gem? Weird.
And he hasn't committed since 2 season's ago. I'm not sure how that equates to being the worst defensive player in the MLB like some Scrubs fans like to say (maybe they could look at their own left fielder first...)
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http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/clip?id=4176831&categoryid=2521705
Ooops. #1 Web Gem? Weird.
And he hasn't committed since 2 season's ago. I'm not sure how that equates to being the worst defensive player in the MLB like some Scrubs fans like to say (maybe they could look at their own left fielder first...)
Can't commit an error on a ball you don't get to. ;)
And in his first season in a Cubs uni, Soriano had more OF assists than any Cub OF in the previous 50 seasons.
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And in his first season in a Cubs uni, Soriano had more OF assists than any Cub OF in the previous 50 seasons.
Wow. He must really be a great outfielder.
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http://deadspin.com/5259657/brewers-fans-want-everyone-to-know-they-dont-like-the-happy-youngster-either
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/fish_bytes/2009/05/fan-drives-hard-bargain-for-coghlans-first-home-run-ball.html
http://www.millerparkdrunk.com/fans/the-happy-youngster-is-a-douchebag-who-makes-us-all-look-bad/
The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel's Tom Haudricourt weighs in:
Maybe he should also detail how he held up Geoff Jenkins for his 200th home run ball a few years by demanding Prince Fielder autographed bats, etc. Nothing like holding balls for the highest ransom, huh? He talks about classy moves in his blog. Would you call that a classy move on his part? Why should Geoff Jenkins have to go and ask Prince Fielder to sign stuff so Jenkins can retrieve a milestone homer? If you were a true Brewers fan, wouldn't you make it easy on a player who was the face of the franchise all those years?
Swear to all things Holy... I see this f-stick at a game, I'm gonna punch him the throat.
Maybe he'll off himself, or at least recoil into his parents basement in shame knowing that the world hates him.
The Happy blog no longer has any entries, and all the links are broken.
http://thehappyyoungster.mlblogs.com/
Ass.
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The Happy blog no longer has any entries, and all the links are broken.
http://thehappyyoungster.mlblogs.com/
Ass.
When you know you've done wrong, and you're a complete ass, the best reaction is to close up shop.
I don't have any tickets to Miller Park for the first time in a long time, but I want to go just to find this guy.
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Again, I think we can all agree that the guy is a jerk, but that is besides the point. My point is that once the ball is in the stands it is his possession and he has the right to demand whatever he wants for it. If he feels that the ball is worth two signed bats and some Marlin tickets, then it is up to the player to decide if that is a fair price or not. If it is, pay it and don't complain if it isn't tell the guy to f' himself. Simple as that.
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Again, I think we can all agree that the guy is a jerk, but that is besides the point. My point is that once the ball is in the stands it is his possession and he has the right to demand whatever he wants for it. If he feels that the ball is worth two signed bats and some Marlin tickets, then it is up to the player to decide if that is a fair price or not. If it is, pay it and don't complain if it isn't tell the guy to f' himself. Simple as that.
Absolutely not.
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Can't commit an error on a ball you don't get to. ;)
And in his first season in a Cubs uni, Soriano had more OF assists than any Cub OF in the previous 50 seasons.
I don't quite understand your post. Are you implying that Soriano has more range than Braun and therefore "gets" to more balls that is why he makes more errors? Braun is one of the fastest players on the roster, I doubt Soriano has a significant edge in speed. Braun reads the ball off the bat alot better than Soriano, that is why he is always in better position to make plays, speed or range has very little to do with it. Braun is clearly a better defensive outfielder than Soriano at this point in their careers, but yes Soriano does have the better arm so he will get more assists than Braun.
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I don't quite understand your post. Are you implying that Soriano has more range than Braun and therefore "gets" to more balls that is why he makes more errors? Braun is one of the fastest players on the roster, I doubt Soriano has a significant edge in speed. Braun reads the ball of the bat alot better than Soriano, that is why he is always in better position to make plays, speed or range has very little to do with it. Braun is clearly a better defensive outfielder than Soriano at this point in their careers, but yes Soriano does have the better arm so he will get more assists than Braun.
Anyone? Anyone?
Braun is one of the worst outfielders off the bat, not many fans here will argue that. He routinely is having to compensate for poor judgment, probably because he isn't in a natural position.
Soriano does have a significant advantage in speed.
Braun does not have the range that Soriano does, due to speed, reaction time & ball judgment. Thus he does not play as many balls, or come close to as many balls which may account for errors when someone like Soriano might get to.
The good thing for Braun is that his judgment and reaction time will improve in time.
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Anyone? Anyone?
Braun is one of the worst outfielders off the bat, not many fans here will argue that. He routinely is having to compensate for poor judgment, probably because he isn't in a natural position.
Soriano does have a significant advantage in speed.
Braun does not have the range that Soriano does, due to speed, reaction time & ball judgment. Thus he does not play as many balls, or come close to as many balls which may account for errors when someone like Soriano might get to.
The good thing for Braun is that his judgment and reaction time will improve in time.
I'm calling Balderdash on this one.
Braun has improved a ton in his 1 years in the outfield. Maybe you just don't watch enough Brewers game, but he always seems to be in good position to make plays, hence no errors ever in left field. The times I've watched the Cubs this year has been against the Brewers and Soriano has had a nightmare of a time in the field. Maybe I haven't watched enough Cub games to see all of Soriano's webgems but from my limited exposure to him this year I would say he is not a better fielder than Braun. As for speed, I'm sure Soriano has a slight edge, but only slight. You underestimate Braun's speed his stolen base totals for the last two years 15, 14 compared to Soriano at 19, 19 so again not significantly more. Braun doesn't hit into too many double plays either.
What I think most fans will not argue with is that having a choice, if you could only take one, most will take Ryan Braun to be their starting left fielder over Soriano.
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I don't quite understand your post. Are you implying that Soriano has more range than Braun and therefore "gets" to more balls that is why he makes more errors? Braun is one of the fastest players on the roster, I doubt Soriano has a significant edge in speed. Braun reads the ball off the bat alot better than Soriano, that is why he is always in better position to make plays, speed or range has very little to do with it. Braun is clearly a better defensive outfielder than Soriano at this point in their careers, but yes Soriano does have the better arm so he will get more assists than Braun.
I made a jokey point about how easy it is to avoid committing an error, and then raise a point to defend Soriano's defense. Neither of the two were really related to each other.
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Anyone? Anyone?
Braun is one of the worst outfielders off the bat, not many fans here will argue that. He routinely is having to compensate for poor judgment, probably because he isn't in a natural position.
Soriano does have a significant advantage in speed.
Braun does not have the range that Soriano does, due to speed, reaction time & ball judgment. Thus he does not play as many balls, or come close to as many balls which may account for errors when someone like Soriano might get to.
The good thing for Braun is that his judgment and reaction time will improve in time.
absolute homer bias, but I guess that is what this thread is for.
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As far as Brauny's fielding goes...2 webgems last night and one play that he should have taken the initiative when Hardy was back tracking and the ball fell between them. His mental errors do add up at times but that's understandable for a player that is in his second year in a position after playing infield his whole life. He's improving and young enough to continue to grow into the position.
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And Braun plays hard ALL THE TIME. Not like Sorry-ann-o who loafs around in the outfield half the time so you can't even tell whether he has good speed.
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absolute homer bias, but I guess that is what this thread is for.
Do you want to argue it?
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The Brewer fans sure love their clever nicknames. Tiresome. (I'm not sure that Sorry-Ann-O is phoenetically correct, may want to double check that one) Right up there with when a Bears fan uses Fudge Packers...hilarious....or cheesehead....Great stuff. It's just as funny when/if you read something on the ESPN college b-ball message boards about MU and people calling us "Fartquette." Again, hilarious. And, yes, it happens. Detracts from the point you're trying to make...if there is one.
The Soriano vs. Braun fielding debate is never going to get anywhere. Both players were asked to play an unnatural/new position. Soriano's been at it for a year or two longer than Braun. Based on Braun's age compared to Soriano, I'd say he has a lot more upside. They'll both misjudge balls...they'll both make their share of nice plays/throws too....who cares.
Soriano wasn't brought to Chicago to win a gold glove. He'll win more games with his bat than he'll lose with his glove. Period. Same can be said with Braun....for now.
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When you know you've done wrong, and you're a complete ass, the best reaction is to close up shop.
I don't have any tickets to Miller Park for the first time in a long time, but I want to go just to find this guy.
The happy youngster posted a douchetastic apology up and took his blog down: http://brewersfandemonium.yuku.com/topic/18836
"FACT: Beginning this season, I have begun to bring the opponent's gear ONLY to wear during that team's portion of BP. As soon as their BP session is over, I put on my Happy Youngster shirt and Brewers hat. While some find this cheating, deceitful, despicable, disloyal...I find that it maximizes the total amount of baseballs that get tossed into the crowd."
He also uses a glove to snag balls. If you're over the age of 11 and take a glove to a game you aren't a man. (negating women since you are a guy to begin with)
I'll ask him to quietly turn in his brewer gear and any remaining tickets to respectable fans, that don't beat lil children/grand parents for baseballs
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Do you want to argue it?
It's a difficult thing to dispute unless you start looking into fielding sabermetrics. And even so, I'm not all that sold on the accuracy of those numbers. Too many variables go into the calculations.
That being said, I know I've watched Soriano make an ass of himself numerous times against the Brewers, including taking a nice little stroll on a ball in the 9th inning opening day that ate him up and got over his head for a rally starting double.
He also let a ball hit in his direction by Jason Kendall result in a triple. Yes, a triple. I'm not even sure how a ball hit by Kendall gets by anyone in the outfield, much less a good fielder.
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Do you want to argue it?
Why... all you stated were very broad claims that have no factual evidence behind them, just your normal use of very loose terms.
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Why... all you stated were very broad claims that have no factual evidence behind them, just your normal use of very loose terms.
Where has PTM gone? You figure he's been salivating to prove this point about Soriano vs. Braun for months now, and when given the chance, he disappears...
To justify what I said about the statistics being misleading, fan graphs puts FAR too much emphasis on the arm factor, which is the only thing keeping Soriano above water at this point. Last year, Soriano had an Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR) of 2.5, of which 4.7 came from the arm factor, meaning the rest of his ability (range, errors) were below average.
Furthermore, Soriano has tanked performance-wise in each of his three years in left field with the Cubs. His UZR dropped from 18.4 (again... all arm) in '07 to 2.5 in '08 and -2.1 so far this season. Meanwhile, Braun went from a -3.2 UZR last year to a -1.7 thus far this season (coincidentally... better than Mr. Soriano).
Braun's not there yet, but he's close. He's playing farther in now and allowing his athleticism to let him range back on balls easier. The days of Braun getting consistently eaten up by balls in the gaps because of bad angles started disappearing about August of last season, but PTM will fondly reference this as if it were fact present day. All of this comes at the expense of Braun being in his second full season at left field. Ever. At any level.
I know most of these numbers will mean nothing to most of you, but I know PTM knows what I'm talking about and planned on holding it over the heads of those who don't really follow advanced statistics. That's not gonna cut it. Braun is improving in his second year at the position and Soriano is on a steady decline.
And if you feel these statistics are abstract and meaningless like I do... there's also the eye test, which puts Braun FAR ahead of Soriano in the field this year, probably to stay.
Meanwhile, John Dewan (you know.. the writer of The Fielding Bible.. http://www.fieldingbible.com/) has Braun rated as a 7 to Soriano's 5 this year.
And if you really want to get into it PTM, we could talk about how much of a fraud UZR statistics are to begin with.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3410&position=3B/OF#fielding
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=847&position=2B/OF#fielding
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
There's the numbers and a glossary, in case anyone wants to take a look.
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Discussion of these guys' defense is pretty ridiculous. They're both fine, nothing more nothing less. Netither are particularly good, nor is either the worst LF you are likely to see throughout the course of a season. The point is, unless they are complete butchers out there, it doesn't matter. They're playing LF for a reason, so that they can be in the lineup to hit, and hot they do. Soriano is not quite the offensive player he once was at this point in his career, but still productive, and Braun at this point is obviously one of the more feared hitters in baseball. What they do in the outfield doesn't matter.
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/05/20/trade.market/1.html
From the section "Around the Majors":
"• Ryan Braun is one terrific outfielder, no kidding. The move of Braun from third base to left field is one of the smartest things any team has done in years."
Weird
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/05/20/trade.market/1.html
From the section "Around the Majors":
"• Ryan Braun is one terrific outfielder, no kidding. The move of Braun from third base to left field is one of the smartest things any team has done in years."
Weird
So, if we give him another 120 feet to see the ball coming at him, his defense gets better? There's a stunner.
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So, if we give him another 120 feet to see the ball coming at him, his defense gets better? There's a stunner.
Do you, or have you ever played baseball. If so, you would know that the outfield is completely different than playing the infield. So much so, that there are even different types of gloves that a third baseman would wear that a Left Fielder wouldn't. In left field, a lot is being able to react to it off of the bat. Why do you think some people are specifically Right Fielders, and some Left? The ball comes off the bat differently, and being able to react to the hit with quick timing is a difficult job. Third base, you need quick reaction time and the ability to stay down onto the ball, one thing Braun had a terrible time with.
But your right, they are pretty much the same position.
But yeah, they're pretty much the same position.
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Of all the mini pissing matches this thread is made up of...
~Wrigley Field vs. Miller Park
~Drunk Fans
~Offensive t-shirts
~Injuries
~Payroll
~Trades
~Starting pitching
~Prince Fat Jokes
~Z. is a nutjob
~Bandwagon fans
~Announcers
~Crazy Manager antics
~Milwaukee vs. Chicago as cities
~Crime rates
~Bean balls
~Playoffs
~Stupid nicknames
This dumb arguement about who is a better left fielder may trump them all as the lamest. As a massive Brewer fan, last year Braun was D+ out there, this year, borderline B-. So yeah he improved, but I would argue that he will never be totally comfortable out there. And Soriano, always been a C+/B- and will most likely be always right around there.
Let's get back to a real arugement. Wrigley Field is an armpit that is crumbling, and it is filled with drunk meatheads, bandwagon rich people, and sloppy drunk chicks.
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So, if we give him another 120 feet to see the ball coming at him, his defense gets better? There's a stunner.
It more has to do with the part of the quote that says "Ryan Braun is one terrific outfielder, no kidding." Not quite sure if you read that part, but that has nothing to do with moving from 3rd base to left field, just being a terrific outfielder. And this is coming from someone who is supposed to show no biases towards any team. So considering how bad the Scrubs fans claim Braun is I find it weird that a writer for si.com calls him "terrific."
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Do you, or have you ever played baseball. If so, you would know that the outfield is completely different than playing the infield. So much so, that there are even different types of gloves that a third baseman would wear that a Left Fielder wouldn't. In left field, a lot is being able to react to it off of the bat. Why do you think some people are specifically Right Fielders, and some Left? The ball comes off the bat differently, and being able to react to the hit with quick timing is a difficult job. Third base, you need quick reaction time and the ability to stay down onto the ball, one thing Braun had a terrible time with.
But your right, they are pretty much the same position.
But yeah, they're pretty much the same position.
Oh calm down.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/clip?id=4197331&categoryid=2521705
Cannon. Weird.
Anyway, Scrubs get swept by the depleted Cards after the Brewers sweep them.
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Anyway, Scrubs get swept by the depleted Cards after the Brewers sweep them.
In other news, the Brewers snap their 1 game losing streak :p
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(http://static.manolith.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/cubs-century-of-suck_01.jpg)(http://static.manolith.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/cubs-century-of-suck_02.jpg)
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Oh, sure, it looks bad when you put it all in one place like that.
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(http://static.manolith.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/cubs-century-of-suck_01.jpg)(http://static.manolith.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/cubs-century-of-suck_02.jpg)
I just came. I am not sorry.
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The Scrubbies are REALLY bad. 5 runs in 53 innings (and 2 left in this game).
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4204044
HAHA
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Ryan Dumpster pulled off a nice Jeff Suppan impression in this past inning. Walk, single, wild pitch, walk, walk, walk. 2 runs walked in. Could be 8 straight losses for the Scrubs by the end of the night...
Big hit for Billy Hall today. Continue to own the Cards, which the Scrubs could not do very well last week.
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The Cubs look like they are in playoff mode right now.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4204044
HAHA
Bradley said: "Unfortunately, I just think it's a lot of 'Oh, you did this to my colleague,' or 'We're going to get him any time we can,'" Bradley said, according to the Chicago Tribune. "'As soon as he gets two strikes, we're going to call whatever and see what he does. Let's try to ruin Milton Bradley.'
"It's just unfortunate. But I'm going to come out on top. I always do."
And by come out on top, I mean throw temper tantrums, get suspended, bat .198, get more fines, and collect my astounding $10 million a year contract for the next 3 years.
That contract makes the Gagne one look like a steal.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4204044
HAHA
As a Dodger fan I tried to like Bradley as a player and teammate during his short tenure in Chavez Ravine. I thought some of his incidents very greatly over hyped. I.E. the slamming the water bottle incident.
But seriously how many teams / cities can a guy make an ass of himself before he stops getting jobs.
Cleveland, Montreal, LA, Oakland, San Diego, Texas, Chicago. Am I forgetting anyone?
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I've been away on vacation and yearning to make my return to the pissing.
Going back a page to the Brewer ballhawk, sure the guy has a right to the ball but he clearly was being a dick about it. It's one thing to ask for a signed bat from the player who hit it, but asking for a Ramirez signed bat and tickets for a Marlins/Brewers game is a bit much.
A few weeks ago 31 year old Bobby Scales made his major league debut for the Cubs and promptly recorded his first basehit. When the umpire threw the ball to the Cubs dugout the ball hit the warning track in front of the dugout and bounced into the stands. A guy in the front row realized it was his first major league hit so he tossed it into the dugout. That's the right way to handle the situation.
And yes, the Cubs have d-bag ballhawks as well. Especially the guy who wears camo and knocks people down in the bleachers. The ushers call him Rambo.
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http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4210359&categoryid=2521705
Yes, Zambrano has cooled down and is in control of his emotions. What a fool. Maybe he'll come out and say that umpires have it out to get him but that he'll come out on top. What a group of head-cases. "Attitude reflect leadership." It comes from the top, Sweet Lou.
I was waiting for a Z meltdown. What's the over/under on the next Scrubs meltdown?
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Zambrano is a real class act. He and Milton Bradley should get their own radio show.
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http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4210359&categoryid=2521705
Yes, Zambrano has cooled down and is in control of his emotions. What a fool. Maybe he'll come out and say that umpires have it out to get him but that he'll come out on top. What a group of head-cases. "Attitude reflect leadership." It comes from the top, Sweet Lou.
I was waiting for a Z meltdown. What's the over/under on the next Scrubs meltdown?
Man, your Cubs OCD is hilarious. You're here posting over the holiday weekend (morning, afternoon and night), posting youtube videos and meaningless power rankings with the Brewers ahead of the Cubs in May (congrats again by the way), your avatar, your signature and those relentlessly clever nicknames for the Cubs....more than anything it has become very funny and entertaining to watch/read. You're the only one that knows for sure, but I bet it's close as to which makes you truly happier; a Brewers win or a Cubs loss.
Note all the BS injury comments/jokes about Weeks from Cubs fans. With Cryin Braun's ::) wrist, your pitchers running into each other while fielding batting practice and the fact that the Sewers ::) have lost 5 of 6 one may think you'd have other concerns.....but nope.
The Zambrano thing today was more good theater....funny stuff...the picture on ESPN of Lou laughing while Z is flipping out is classic. Zambrano is good for about one of these a year....maybe more...guess we'll see....love the emotion. It's even funnier that the Cards and Sewers ::) are battling it out for that ever critical first place position in May and they lead with the Cubs on ESPN....show Z's meltdown followed by the Cubs answering with 3 runs in the bottom half of the inning to win. Must be irritating to be in the league's smallest market....although LaRue running to get out of the way of the sausage race was hilarious.
Great to see Jake Fox up from Iowa and contributing right away...the best hitter in the minor leagues deserves a shot. With injuries/DL stints from Harden, Zambrano, Ramirez, Bradley, Lee and Soto....combined with how awful Soto, Lee, Fontenot and Bradley have been offensively a 23-22 record is acceptable...once everyone is healthy, back from suspensions ;D and performing at even near expected levels, this team will be fine...although the bullpen needs substantial work....should be a fun race.
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Come on wadesword. Even you have to appreciate the fact that Zambrano tossed the umpire out of the game.
Zambrano is a stud.
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Thanks MF94. It's pretty pathetic that he still thinks scrubbies is funny. It's like he's a 14 year old from 1979 or something. And yes, from his posts you'd think the brewers would be running away with the division, not in 2nd. But i've always argued that was proof that wisconsinites have an inferiority complex.
If you told me Z and ramerez would be on the DL and that soriono, dlee, milton, theriot and soto would all be hitting below 250 I'd have guessed we'd be 8 out, not 4. Not sure what is wrong with the team but it's not a good idea to let them hang around.
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Rawdog, I agree with your assessment (disclaimer: Brewers fan) but man, can't you spell your players' names correctly?!
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Come on wadesword. Even you have to appreciate the fact that Zambrano tossed the umpire out of the game.
If it was original I would agree with you, but I've already seen that one from a minor league umpire.
As for MF94 I stopped reading his post after he complained that I posted on a holiday weekend. I'm a college student on summer break. It makes no difference what day of the week it is or what holiday it is. I spend my time the same way every day...doing nothing.
Thanks MF94. It's pretty pathetic that he still thinks scrubbies is funny. It's like he's a 14 year old from 1979 or something. And yes, from his posts you'd think the brewers would be running away with the division, not in 2nd. But i've always argued that was proof that wisconsinites have an inferiority complex.
If you told me Z and ramerez would be on the DL and that soriono, dlee, milton, theriot and soto would all be hitting below 250 I'd have guessed we'd be 8 out, not 4. Not sure what is wrong with the team but it's not a good idea to let them hang around.
Never said Scrubbies was funny. That's just what they are. They are scrubs. And I never said or claimed that the Brewers would run away with the division. In fact I made it VERY well known that I chose the Cardinals to win the division, and I stick to my prediction.
Yeah, watch out for those Scrubs. Don't let them hang around or they might get swept in the 1st round again :o.
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By the way, I like how not a word was spoken while the Scrubs were on an 8 game losing streak. Let me guess, it was the holiday weekend and I was the only 1 who wastes my time on here on holiday weekends, right? 8 days is a long time for a weekend. But now that they have 2 wins in a row, those Scrubs fans are out in full force! Weird...
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Great to see Jake Fox up from Iowa and contributing right away...the best hitter in the minor leagues deserves a shot. With injuries/DL stints from Harden, Zambrano, Ramirez, Bradley, Lee and Soto....combined with how awful Soto, Lee, Fontenot and Bradley have been offensively a 23-22 record is acceptable...once everyone is healthy, back from suspensions and performing at even near expected levels, this team will be fine...although the bullpen needs substantial work....should be a fun race.
If you told me Z and ramerez would be on the DL and that soriono, dlee, milton, theriot and soto would all be hitting below 250 I'd have guessed we'd be 8 out, not 4. Not sure what is wrong with the team but it's not a good idea to let them hang around.
It's good to know that everything is rainbows and butterflies in Wrigleyville. Did anyone ever consider that, just maybe, the "expected levels" of performance from Cubs fans might have been a bit high? I mean, I'm not sure I have the authority to make such an audacious suggestion, seeing as I'm a lowly Brewer fan but... the Cubs might just not be THAT good this year.
Meanwhile, ESPN leads off with a Cubs story because schmucks from all around the nation will mindlessly tune in. Hey, whatever gets viewers I guess. So in that sense, it is irritating being in a small market.
Now, Braun is a punk for watching his home runs and eyeing up a guy who threw at his head, but Zambrano is "a stud" and gets a pat on the back for "showing emotion" on a play where the correct call was made? Interesting.
In other news, as wadesworld said, Cubs fans conveniently disappeared during an eight game losing streak, and I still have no replies to my proposed sabermetrics discussion regarding Braun and Soriano (after we've heard over and over in this thread how unintelligent and unknowledgeable Brewers fans are). What gives?
Oh, and this small market team is cleaning up in early all star voting.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090526&content_id=4960488&vkey=allstar2009&fext=.jsp
Keep up the good work, Brewers fans.
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Oh, and this small market team is cleaning up in early all star voting.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090526&content_id=4960488&vkey=allstar2009&fext=.jsp
Keep up the good work, Brewers fans.
I can't believe Lastings Milledge isn't in the top 15 OF in votes.
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By the way, I like how not a word was spoken while the Scrubs were on an 8 game losing streak. Let me guess, it was the holiday weekend and I was the only 1 who wastes my time on here on holiday weekends, right? 8 days is a long time for a weekend. But now that they have 2 wins in a row, those Scrubs fans are out in full force! Weird...
What could've possibly been said during the losing streak? Everything that could've gone wrong did and the offense completely vanished....something Sewer ::) fans may be able to empathize with these days. If we took your route we would've poked fun at Weeks ending his season striking out complete with video clips, song parodies and clever nicknames. It's probably best just to keep quiet.
BTW, doesn't a holiday weekend apply to everyone...whether in college or not? I just think it's funny that anytime anything remotely negative happens related to the Cubs I can come here and there are already 3 posts from you. Obsessed.
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It's good to know that everything is rainbows and butterflies in Wrigleyville. Did anyone ever consider that, just maybe, the "expected levels" of performance from Cubs fans might have been a bit high? I mean, I'm not sure I have the authority to make such an audacious suggestion, seeing as I'm a lowly Brewer fan but... the Cubs might just not be THAT good this year.
Meanwhile, ESPN leads off with a Cubs story because schmucks from all around the nation will mindlessly tune in. Hey, whatever gets viewers I guess. So in that sense, it is irritating being in a small market.
Now, Braun is a punk for watching his home runs and eyeing up a guy who threw at his head, but Zambrano is "a stud" and gets a pat on the back for "showing emotion" on a play where the correct call was made? Interesting.
In other news, as wadesworld said, Cubs fans conveniently disappeared during an eight game losing streak, and I still have no replies to my proposed sabermetrics discussion regarding Braun and Soriano (after we've heard over and over in this thread how unintelligent and unknowledgeable Brewers fans are). What gives?
Oh, and this small market team is cleaning up in early all star voting.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090526&content_id=4960488&vkey=allstar2009&fext=.jsp
Keep up the good work, Brewers fans.
I didn't read anyone saying that all is well in Wrigleyville...quite the contrary. Given that state of the team thus far and the way players have performed, I'll take the 23-22 record and hope to continually improve the remainder of the season. The expected level of performance for this team is pretty clear. With the roster they had coming out of spring training they were the consensus favorite to win the division. So far players not living up to repuatation/previous performance levels and injuries have prevented that from happening. Maybe/hopefully it'll improve, maybe it won't.
What does Braun's being a punk have to do with Zambrano?
Kudos to you for finding a wealth of fielding statistics that nobody uses showing Braun is a better LF than Soriano (I'm assuming that's what this sabermetrics discussion was about)...guess we can close the book on that one. That debate was ridiculous anyway.
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I didn't read anyone saying that all is well in Wrigleyville...quite the contrary. Given that state of the team thus far and the way players have performed, I'll take the 23-22 record and hope to continually improve the remainder of the season. The expected level of performance for this team is pretty clear. With the roster they had coming out of spring training they were the consensus favorite to win the division. So far players not living up to repuatation/previous performance levels and injuries have prevented that from happening. Maybe/hopefully it'll improve, maybe it won't.
What does Braun's being a punk have to do with Zambrano?
Kudos to you for finding a wealth of fielding statistics that nobody uses showing Braun is a better LF than Soriano (I'm assuming that's what this sabermetrics discussion was about)...guess we can close the book on that one. That debate was ridiculous anyway.
The results are skewed anyway because Soriano completely takes plays off.
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What could've possibly been said during the losing streak? Everything that could've gone wrong did and the offense completely vanished....something Sewer ::) fans may be able to empathize with these days. If we took your route we would've poked fun at Weeks ending his season striking out complete with video clips, song parodies and clever nicknames. It's probably best just to keep quiet.
BTW, doesn't a holiday weekend apply to everyone...whether in college or not? I just think it's funny that anytime anything remotely negative happens related to the Cubs I can come here and there are already 3 posts from you. Obsessed.
Look at the title of the thread dude, it's a CUBS and BREWERS pissing match...
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Sorry!ano looked great on that two-base error yesterday. He looked like Bill Buckner on that little dribbler.
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Look at the title of the thread dude, it's a CUBS and BREWERS pissing match...
Oh, thanks. I get it now.
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He looked like Bill Buckner on that little dribbler.
Interesting analogy. In what way did he look like Bill Buckner? The fact the he is black, was playing for a different team, let the ball go under the glove to the right of his body, the play took place in LF vs. at first base, that the game was played in May vs. a World Series game 23 years ago or that his team won the game?
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The results are skewed anyway because Soriano completely takes plays off.
Yes, good point. That is easily proven and well documented. I would much rather see Soriano making failed diving attempts to rob someone of a single and send his frail ass to the DL again.
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Interesting analogy. In what way did he look like Bill Buckner? The fact the he is black, was playing for a different team, let the ball go under the glove to the right of his body, the play took place in LF vs. at first base, that the game was played in May vs. a World Series game 23 years ago or that his team won the game?
He plays in the Major Leagues, for a cursed team, was moving slowly toward the ball; he let it go under his glove; it cost his team at the time it happened; it was a routine play.
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Yes, good point. That is easily proven and well documented. I would much rather see Soriano making failed diving attempts to rob someone of a single and send his frail ass to the DL again.
Sorry Mr. Sarcasm Police, I guess I should have used teal.
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He plays in the Major Leagues, for a cursed team, was moving slowly toward the ball; he let it go under his glove; it cost his team at the time it happened; it was a routine play.
Please stop comparing yesterday's error by Soriano in LF to Bill Buckner's error in the 1986 World Series that allowed the winning run to score forcing a Game 7. Does every routine error by any position player then rightfully get compared to Buckner? Honestly, you're way off on this one and you know it. Quit while you're behind.
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I didn't read anyone saying that all is well in Wrigleyville...quite the contrary. Given that state of the team thus far and the way players have performed, I'll take the 23-22 record and hope to continually improve the remainder of the season. The expected level of performance for this team is pretty clear. With the roster they had coming out of spring training they were the consensus favorite to win the division. So far players not living up to repuatation/previous performance levels and injuries have prevented that from happening. Maybe/hopefully it'll improve, maybe it won't.
What does Braun's being a punk have to do with Zambrano?
Kudos to you for finding a wealth of fielding statistics that nobody uses showing Braun is a better LF than Soriano (I'm assuming that's what this sabermetrics discussion was about)...guess we can close the book on that one. That debate was ridiculous anyway.
RE: Braun being a punk in relation to Zambrano - Just pointing out a double standard, that Z's outburst is equivalent to or worse than whatever Braun's antics are perceived to be, but Z gets worshipped for it. "Stud." "Emotion." Right.
RE: Sabermetrics argument. I know ptm (I believe?) has said in this thread that he'll "take on that argument anytime" because "he has the numbers back it up." I'm assuming he was referring to sabermetric fielding numbers, and if I'm wrong, then I'd be happy to listen to what his justification is. In any case, I said I think the numbers are skewed and meaningless as it is and never use them as any sort of justification vs. the "eye test" of watching fielders. Even so, Braun's numbers are STILL better than Soriano's this year, so that can't even be used as a justification. I'm just interested to hear what ptm has to say about the issue since his last reply on the subject (not to me) was "Do you want to argue that?" Well, I did.
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By the way, I like how not a word was spoken while the Scrubs were on an 8 game losing streak. Let me guess, it was the holiday weekend and I was the only 1 who wastes my time on here on holiday weekends, right? 8 days is a long time for a weekend. But now that they have 2 wins in a row, those Scrubs fans are out in full force! Weird...
That is typical Chicago frontrunning. If the Cubs sucked, Wrigley would be empty...EMPTY.....Well, not empty, but there would be room for all the REAL Cub fans....the fans who show up when the team is losing.
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Kudos to you for finding a wealth of fielding statistics that nobody uses showing Braun is a better LF than Soriano (I'm assuming that's what this sabermetrics discussion was about)...guess we can close the book on that one. That debate was ridiculous anyway.
http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1153911/index.htm
Yes MF94, nobody uses sabermetrics. Nobody at all. Take the time to read this article. I know you will still be too arrogant to accept the fact that it IS indeed used to turn around baseball teams (the Rays) and that you, as a Scrubs fan, are most certainly correct no questions asked, but this statistic is used by teams to decide who to draft, trade for, go after in free agency, etc. It is VERY widely used and VERY helpful.
But yes, he found a statistic that nobody uses.
"It has taken three decades, but the mystery of defensive analysis, perhaps the last frontier in the statistical ether, has been cracked by sabermetricians who have devoted 15, 20 years to the cause. The clunkily named metrics that have emerged within the last five years may sound like topics at a symposium for mechanical engineers—Probablistic Model of Range, Defensive Regression Analysis, Special Aggregate Fielding Evaluation, Ultimate Zone Rating—but not only have they become accepted by analysts like James as accurate tools, they have also infiltrated the daily vernacular of front offices."
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Please stop comparing yesterday's error by Soriano in LF to Bill Buckner's error in the 1986 World Series that allowed the winning run to score forcing a Game 7. Does every routine error by any position player then rightfully get compared to Buckner? Honestly, you're way off on this one and you know it. Quit while you're behind.
Hey, I just said "He looked like Bill Buckner on that little dribbler." You're just sore because Buckner was a revered Cub before he went on to infamy for that other cursed team. And now you're seeing what an inconsistent and nonchalant defensive player your beloved Sorry-ass left fielder is.
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Hey, I just said "He looked like Bill Buckner on that little dribbler." You're just sore because Buckner was a revered Cub before he went on to infamy for that other cursed team. And now you're seeing what an inconsistent and nonchalant defensive player your beloved Sorry-ass left fielder is.
It sure seemed like you were comparing the two plays in your last post....maybe I misunderstood. What Buckner did in Boston has no bearing on how I felt about him as a Cub. He won a batting title while in a Cubs uniform and that's what he'll be remembered for in Chicago. I've already said this, Soriano will win way more games with his bat than he'll lose with his glove...end of story. Yesterday's error didn't end up costing the team a thing.
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http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1153911/index.htm
Yes MF94, nobody uses sabermetrics. Nobody at all. Take the time to read this article. I know you will still be too arrogant to accept the fact that it IS indeed used to turn around baseball teams (the Rays) and that you, as a Scrubs fan, are most certainly correct no questions asked, but this statistic is used by teams to decide who to draft, trade for, go after in free agency, etc. It is VERY widely used and VERY helpful.
But yes, he found a statistic that nobody uses.
"It has taken three decades, but the mystery of defensive analysis, perhaps the last frontier in the statistical ether, has been cracked by sabermetricians who have devoted 15, 20 years to the cause. The clunkily named metrics that have emerged within the last five years may sound like topics at a symposium for mechanical engineers—Probablistic Model of Range, Defensive Regression Analysis, Special Aggregate Fielding Evaluation, Ultimate Zone Rating—but not only have they become accepted by analysts like James as accurate tools, they have also infiltrated the daily vernacular of front offices."
Wow, nice Google search. I'll take a pass on the article, but thanks. So now we're comparing ourselves (the layman fan) to the front office staff and talent scouts of MLB franchises in the use of statistics? Let me clarify...by "nobody" I'm referring to the everyday fan...the people in the seats....the people that waste their holidays on these boards.
I don't recall an announcer EVER saying..."well Ron that error really doesn't surprise me given his Probablistic Model of Range decrease of 2.4 compared to last year's 3.7....combine that with his UZR rating of -1.7 and I could've told you he wasn't going to make that play."
I'll stick with the eye test, errors, assists, nice catches/throws and gold gloves when it comes to fielding. This of course all stems from a Soriano/Braun LF debate which has been, and will continue to be, pointless...they are both worse than average...if you want to use UZR to say that Braun is not quite as worse than average then more power to you.
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Where has PTM gone? You figure he's been salivating to prove this point about Soriano vs. Braun for months now, and when given the chance, he disappears...
To justify what I said about the statistics being misleading, fan graphs puts FAR too much emphasis on the arm factor, which is the only thing keeping Soriano above water at this point. Last year, Soriano had an Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR) of 2.5, of which 4.7 came from the arm factor, meaning the rest of his ability (range, errors) were below average.
Furthermore, Soriano has tanked performance-wise in each of his three years in left field with the Cubs. His UZR dropped from 18.4 (again... all arm) in '07 to 2.5 in '08 and -2.1 so far this season. Meanwhile, Braun went from a -3.2 UZR last year to a -1.7 thus far this season (coincidentally... better than Mr. Soriano).
Braun's not there yet, but he's close. He's playing farther in now and allowing his athleticism to let him range back on balls easier. The days of Braun getting consistently eaten up by balls in the gaps because of bad angles started disappearing about August of last season, but PTM will fondly reference this as if it were fact present day. All of this comes at the expense of Braun being in his second full season at left field. Ever. At any level.
I know most of these numbers will mean nothing to most of you, but I know PTM knows what I'm talking about and planned on holding it over the heads of those who don't really follow advanced statistics. That's not gonna cut it. Braun is improving in his second year at the position and Soriano is on a steady decline.
And if you feel these statistics are abstract and meaningless like I do... there's also the eye test, which puts Braun FAR ahead of Soriano in the field this year, probably to stay.
Meanwhile, John Dewan (you know.. the writer of The Fielding Bible.. http://www.fieldingbible.com/) has Braun rated as a 7 to Soriano's 5 this year.
And if you really want to get into it PTM, we could talk about how much of a fraud UZR statistics are to begin with.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3410&position=3B/OF#fielding
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=847&position=2B/OF#fielding
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/glossary/
There's the numbers and a glossary, in case anyone wants to take a look.
Looks like we're on the same page then, MF94.
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Looks like we're on the same page then, MF94.
I agree.
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Wow, nice Google search. I'll take a pass on the article, but thanks. So now we're comparing ourselves (the layman fan) to the front office staff and talent scouts of MLB franchises in the use of statistics? Let me clarify...by "nobody" I'm referring to the everyday fan...the people in the seats....the people that waste their holidays on these boards.
I don't recall an announcer EVER saying..."well Ron that error really doesn't surprise me given his Probablistic Model of Range decrease of 2.4 compared to last year's 3.7....combine that with his UZR rating of -1.7 and I could've told you he wasn't going to make that play."
I'll stick with the eye test, errors, assists, nice catches/throws and gold gloves when it comes to fielding. This of course all stems from a Soriano/Braun LF debate which has been, and will continue to be, pointless...they are both worse than average...if you want to use UZR to say that Braun is not quite as worse than average then more power to you.
Haha I google searched for this article because it was a 6 page article in Sports Illustrated a month ago. I have a subscription to Sports Illustrated and I read the article, so when you said "nobody uses" sabermetrics I knew you were sorely mistaken. It actually is a very interesting article. It gives props to your left fielder, saying he is a better left fielder than most people give him credit for. Whether or not you're scared of it proving my point, if you enjoy baseball it is worth the read.
I personally will take what professional scouts outlook over what the average fan "sees" as far as deciding who is a better fielder. I'm pretty sure, but could be wrong, that a professional baseball scout for an MLB team has a better idea of who is a better outfielder than just some random person who watches 16 games of Ryan Braun in a season and thinks he is bad.
But it is as I thought, you see what you see with red and blue glasses on and you're convinced you're right, even if there are people out there who do this stuff for a living and will disagree with you.
Regardless, my point still stands. These stats are used, and now the "average fan" who has a Sports Illustrated subscription knows the importance of these statistics too. So no, I didn't just google search "sabermetrics" and happen to fall upon it. I read a great article and you said nobody uses it, and conveniently I knew otherwise because of this article.
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Haha I google searched for this article because it was a 6 page article in Sports Illustrated a month ago. I have a subscription to Sports Illustrated and I read the article, so when you said "nobody uses" sabermetrics I knew you were sorely mistaken. It actually is a very interesting article. It gives props to your left fielder, saying he is a better left fielder than most people give him credit for. Whether or not you're scared of it proving my point, if you enjoy baseball it is worth the read.
I personally will take what professional scouts outlook over what the average fan "sees" as far as deciding who is a better fielder. I'm pretty sure, but could be wrong, that a professional baseball scout for an MLB team has a better idea of who is a better outfielder than just some random person who watches 16 games of Ryan Braun in a season and thinks he is bad.
But it is as I thought, you see what you see with red and blue glasses on and you're convinced you're right, even if there are people out there who do this stuff for a living and will disagree with you.
Regardless, my point still stands. These stats are used, and now the "average fan" who has a Sports Illustrated subscription knows the importance of these statistics too. So no, I didn't just google search "sabermetrics" and happen to fall upon it. I read a great article and you said nobody uses it, and conveniently I knew otherwise because of this article.
Yes....and I corrected my statement saying the everyday (casual or avid) fan does not use sabermetrics...if you disagree with that you're out of your mind. I'd guess that less than half the MLB teams themselves are even using them. I don't need to see Soriano's UZR rating to know he has a better than average arm that will save his ass and save the Cubs runs. I also don't need it to know that he'll misplay balls and look lost out there at times. Teams are way more interested in a player's offensive production than their UZR...especially corner outfielders.
There are plenty of scouts that use the eye test and emphasize offensive production over how many runs they may be able to save their team based on a statistic that's not universally adopted.
My point still stands...."nobody" uses sabermetrics outside of a few actuaries and statisticians hired by a handful of teams. Next time you're at Miller Park and ask 20 people what Cameron's UZR is.
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That is typical Chicago frontrunning. If the Cubs sucked, Wrigley would be empty...EMPTY.....Well, not empty, but there would be room for all the REAL Cub fans....the fans who show up when the team is losing.
Cubs averaged 25K in 1987 when Dawson won the MVP playing for a last place team & haven't been under 25K since then.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/cubsatte.shtml
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I'd guess that less than half the MLB teams themselves are even using them.
There are plenty of scouts that use the eye test and emphasize offensive production over how many runs they may be able to save their team based on a statistic that's not universally adopted.
See there's where you're wrong. If you read the article it says that all but about 3 teams use the sabermetrics. And not too many scouts use only their eye test at all. Defense is 50% as important as offense. So you are correct, good offense is going to create more runs than bad defense will give up, but that is a much higher percentage than most people think. Otherwise players like Mat Gamel would be playing every single day.
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See there's where you're wrong. If you read the article it says that all but about 3 teams use the sabermetrics. And not too many scouts use only their eye test at all. Defense is 50% as important as offense. So you are correct, good offense is going to create more runs than bad defense will give up, but that is a much higher percentage than most people think. Otherwise players like Mat Gamel would be playing every single day.
Come on WadesWorld you should know you can't talk baseball with a Chubs fan. I know, it's difficult dealing with incompetent fans but you have to get used to it. The only real knowledge a Cubs fan has of baseball, in association with performance, is a sh**** 16 inch bar league while drinking Old Style.
One thing the Grub fans would watch, or read--but they would rather wait for the video highlight, would be a commercial or article about what energy drink Z is currently chugging. Then the next day they would buy a case to cure their hangover as they crash in their daddies' condos alongside the Lake.
To finish my piss, Braun will be a gold glover in three years and childish names for the Cubs are still pretty damn funny.
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Cubs averaged 25K in 1987 when Dawson won the MVP playing for a last place team & haven't been under 25K since then.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/cubsatte.shtml
Not to mention the 3+ million they drew for that horrendous last place team in '06...not sure the point he was trying to make anyway.
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Not to mention the 3+ million they drew for that horrendous last place team in '06...not sure the point he was trying to make anyway.
I was going to ignore that aberration, since attendance was trending upwards and that team was expected to do well when most of the tickets were sold.
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See there's where you're wrong. If you read the article it says that all but about 3 teams use the sabermetrics. And not too many scouts use only their eye test at all. Defense is 50% as important as offense. So you are correct, good offense is going to create more runs than bad defense will give up, but that is a much higher percentage than most people think. Otherwise players like Mat Gamel would be playing every single day.
I have my doubts the article says that but I'll take your word for it. Until teams have a clue how to interpret these numbers (which they don't) they'll still have no idea how to transfer it to a player's contract or comparison value. Until that day comes offensive stats will take precedence...followed by the stats that are universally/traditionally used for defense.
Point remains, if all of the MLB teams are not using it (even if it's only 3 that aren't as you suggest), surely fans of the game or not using it either. I'm not sure how you can disagree with that? I don't recall UZR showing up on any rotisserie baseball scoring. Again, next time you're at Brewers game ask 20...no, 50 fans what Braun's UZR is...I'd put the over under on the people knowing the answer at 1.
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I have my doubts the article says that but I'll take your word for it. Until teams have a clue how to interpret these numbers (which they don't) they'll still have no idea how to transfer it to a player's contract or comparison value. Until that day comes offensive stats will take precedence...followed by the stats that are universally/traditionally used for defense.
Point remains, if all of the MLB teams are not using it (even if it's only 3 that aren't as you suggest), surely fans of the game or not using it either. I'm not sure how you can disagree with that? I don't recall UZR showing up on any rotisserie baseball scoring. Again, next time you're at Brewers game ask 20...no, 50 fans what Braun's UZR is...I'd put the over under on the people knowing the answer at 1.
Alright, fair enough, I will give you that an average fan won't know their team's UZR, so you're right on that, but I still believe that the majority of people that really matter when it comes to analyzing talent (those who put together teams) do utilize these statistics, and it helped to make a MAJOR turnaround (worst team in baseball to best team in baseball in 2 years) for the Rays. So I don't think that these statistics should be thrown to the side as useless statistics.
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Not to mention the 3+ million they drew for that horrendous last place team in '06...not sure the point he was trying to make anyway.
The point I was making is that Cub fans all hide when THEIR team is losing, but get them on a little winnig streak, they're all out then. I can hardly wait for the Cubs to be uncool again.
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Cubs averaged 25K in 1987 when Dawson won the MVP playing for a last place team & haven't been under 25K since then.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/cubsatte.shtml
To argue attendence is pointless. I know a Brewer fan brought it up, and I will agree that Wrigley is packed just about every game.
However, playing in Chicago sure helps. The population in Chicago and the surronding area of Chicago is huge compared to Milwaukee and the subarbs of Milwaukee. For the Brewers to sell out is a much bigger feat than the Cubs, and it has nothing to do with performance or fan support, but instead sheer numbers. There are a lot more Cub fans than Brewer fans.
The thing that the Brewers fan forgot to mention was the quality of the fan that goes to the game.
To argue attendence is pointless, but go right ahead.
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Quality of the fan was indeed not mentioned. So let's go straight to the experts to figure that one out...INSIDE EDITION!
http://insideedition.com/news.aspx?storyId=2955
The drunk Brewer girl about halfway through is my favorite.
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Quality of the fan was indeed not mentioned. So let's go straight to the experts to figure that one out...INSIDE EDITION!
http://insideedition.com/news.aspx?storyId=2955
The drunk Brewer girl about halfway through is my favorite.
"We saw this guy buy 4 drinks at a time, including the powerful drink called Jägerbombs!"
omg... I can't stop laughing :D
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Quality of the fan was indeed not mentioned. So let's go straight to the experts to figure that one out...INSIDE EDITION!
http://insideedition.com/news.aspx?storyId=2955
The drunk Brewer girl about halfway through is my favorite.
DWJ I love ya but I don't think that proves anything. If I ever get to Wrig' with "The American Dream" and we sit in the bleachers I will bring my camera and see the utter debauchery unfold. I did not see a Brewer accidentally drink his/her own urine on mistake because they were too drunk and didn't want to get up and pissed in a cup and drank from the piss cup rather than their beer.
It's nothing like Diego where some guy had his ass hanging out of his pants while he backed up into a girl during a lap dance. Classic ;D
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Quality of the fan was indeed not mentioned. So let's go straight to the experts to figure that one out...INSIDE EDITION!
http://insideedition.com/news.aspx?storyId=2955
The drunk Brewer girl about halfway through is my favorite.
Not sure if this was to bash Brewers fans... but wow, what a shocker, drunk fans at MILLER Park... no crap.
Yup, Wrigley is holier than thou.
And before I never said that Brewer fans are more educated in the game than Cubs fans, but was talking about the difference when the Cubs (or any team for that matter) are in a pennant race compared to when they are not, and the difference in fan base and attention to the game.
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DWJ I love ya but I don't think that proves anything. If I ever get to Wrig' with "The American Dream" and we sit in the bleachers I will bring my camera and see the utter debauchery unfold. I did not see a Brewer accidentally drink his/her own urine on mistake because they were too drunk and didn't want to get up and pissed in a cup and drank from the piss cup rather than their beer.
It's nothing like Diego where some guy had his ass hanging out of his pants while he backed up into a girl during a lap dance. Classic ;D
Pretty sad someone drank their own piss. At least the guy was wise enough to wizz in a cup instead of his pants though, eh? ;D
What I don't get, and maybe someone can figure this out for me, is why Wrigley is such a "party" atmosphere. As many Brewer fans have pointed out, it is pretty dumpy. You can go out in the bleachers and drink and...well, watch the game. There's isn't a guy tumbling down a slide after a home run there, nor is there the brilliance that is the sausage race. I guess they added the Captain Morgan thing this year, but that's attached on the outside, and probably not as cool as the Friday's there. And there is no badass jumbotron for a bunch of sweet videos, just that manual operated scoreboard in center. Plus, tickets are pretty expensive. Peculiar.
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http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200905314809855&c_id=mil
...weird
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Nice to see the 6,000 or so fans that stuck it out till 10pm to watch the loss tonight. Sort of remind me of ViQueens fans.
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Nice to see the 6,000 or so fans that stuck it out till 10pm to watch the loss tonight. Sort of remind me of ViQueens fans.
Haha yeah. I like how just 3 games ago the Brewers were on a "cold streak" and yet they are 5-5 in their last 10, 10 games over .500 and still lead the division.
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I don't really get the argument that there are douchebag drunks in the bleachers at Wrigley. I'm pretty sure I can find douchebags drunks at any stadium in the majors.
I find it hard to believe that a team
a) in a beer city
b) named the Brewers
c) whose fans drink in the parking lot before games (some of which don't even make it in)
d) who had 7000 fans sign up to piss themselves if the Brewers made the playoffs
has no douchebag drunks.
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I don't really get the argument that there are douchebag drunks in the bleachers at Wrigley. I'm pretty sure I can find douchebags drunks at any stadium in the majors.
I find it hard to believe that a team
a) in a beer city
b) named the Brewers
c) whose fans drink in the parking lot before games (some of which don't even make it in)
d) who had 7000 fans sign up to piss themselves if the Brewers made the playoffs
has no douchebag drunks.
TT... I think every Brewer fan will agree with you that we have drunks everywhere in the park. The point isn't the (hey look at the Wrigley douchebags, oh but Miller Park doesn't have any)... its the Cub fans that come on here chanted about how great their fans are and show pictures, or a video of Brewers fans fighting (with Cubs fans mind you)... and then turn their head when anything is said about the Cubs fans.
It all goes back to my post about on page 30 of this (don't go back to it, because I really don't know what page it is on)... when I talked about the reason why everyone in the world HATES Chicago Cubs fans isn't because we are jealous, or there are a lot of Cubs fans... its because you as fans are completely oblivious to everything that SUCKS about the Cubs... the team, a lot of the fans, the stadium falling apart. Cubs fans are so oblivious to it that it angers the rest of the world.
If you look at most of the pointless, idiotic arguments that have spawned from this ramble of a thread... they were usually started by a Cubs fan (Soriano vs Braun fielding, fans in the bleachers, etc.)... they get started by a Cubs fan, a Brewers fan will rebuttel the argument, and then ALL HELL breaks loose when the 5 to 7 Cubs fans come on here, make 1 sentence remarks that are so general and far from the truth, and then we get to where we are today.
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If you look at most of the pointless, idiotic arguments that have spawned from this ramble of a thread... they were usually started by a Cubs fan (Soriano vs Braun fielding, fans in the bleachers, etc.)... they get started by a Cubs fan, a Brewers fan will rebuttel the argument, and then ALL HELL breaks loose when the 5 to 7 Cubs fans come on here, make 1 sentence remarks that are so general and far from the truth, and then we get to where we are today.
Might want to double check who started that Soriano/Braun discussion before citing it, unless it was raging all of last year when I wasn't posting here. :)
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HAHAHA CIRCUS!
What about the brewers circus? I heard the highlights of 2009 include:
1) Braun trying to catch a flyball
2) Bill Hall playing 3rd
3) Rickie Weeks
4) The brewers second attempt at getting a big name closer (because the first one worked out so well)
5) Prince Fielder in an eating contest
I'd just like to draw attention to this attempted bash at the Brewers earlier this year. For the most part, things have turned out pretty well...
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I'd just like to draw attention to this attempted bash at the Brewers earlier this year. For the most part, things have turned out pretty well...
I gave up on Rickie during last year, and then he totally redeems himself this year and then gets hurt for the season. He just makes it really hard to like him.
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The Brewers 2nd attempt at an old big-name closer... yea, I think that worked fine for the Brewers, time will tell though.
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The Brewers 2nd attempt at an old big-name closer... yea, I think that worked fine for the Brewers, time will tell though.
Yeah, it is still early. To this point Trevor Hoffma appears to be every bit the baseball god he has generally been throughout his career. A pitcher that is truly a treat to watch.
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I am not sure how Eric Gagne and Trevor Hoffman are even comparable besides the fact that they are both closers that the Brewers have signed as free agents.
they are completely different guys and Trevor Hoffman is superior in every way, except taking steroids.
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Well... this is a pissing match- Who wet the bed more tonight, Manny Parra or the Cubs bullpen?
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Well... this is a pissing match- Who wet the bed more tonight, Manny Parra or the Cubs bullpen?
I'm pretty sure 1.69 has to be the record for best ERA after 5 career starts without a win, so I'm going with the Cubs' bullpen.
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Both were bad, and I would say both will also need to be addressed via trade in the near future for either team to have a chance.
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Well... this is a pissing match- Who wet the bed more tonight, Manny Parra or the Cubs bullpen?
All you Cubs fans can blame me... Got to the bar with a buddy after our softball game, it was the 6th inning I think, and I made the following comment.
"Oh somebody's working on a no-no." Well at least he did for another 2.5 seconds.
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Yeah, it is still early. To this point Trevor Hoffma appears to be every bit the baseball god he has generally been throughout his career. A pitcher that is truly a treat to watch.
At Miller Park I cheer for the opposing team as Brewer losses help the Cubs in the central, but I do cheer for Trevor Hoffman when he comes in.
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At Miller Park I cheer for the opposing team as Brewer losses help the Cubs in the central
You must not have cheered too much lately. :D
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It all goes back to my post about on page 30 of this (don't go back to it, because I really don't know what page it is on)... when I talked about the reason why everyone in the world HATES Chicago Cubs fans isn't because we are jealous, or there are a lot of Cubs fans... its because you as fans are completely oblivious to everything that SUCKS about the Cubs... the team, a lot of the fans, the stadium falling apart. Cubs fans are so oblivious to it that it angers the rest of the world.
What a f'ing joke. Have you ever read this board. People from wisconsin hate, bears fans, vikings fans, wisconsin fans, MU fans, pitt fans, lousiville fans, gt fans and every other fan base of any team they play. And every one has completely legit reasons.
Like any of you know anything about what goes on in the rest of the country. I know one person. ONE! who was born in wisconsin, went to mu, and doesn't still live in wisconsin. You are all born in some piece of $h!t small town, move to the big bright lights of milwuakee and then stay there. ANd yet somehow you are all experts on the different people living in regions across the country. Don't tell me what everyone in the world thinks, the cubs have the 3rd biggest following nation wide. I meet people from across the country every day and you are dead wrong.
We are 'oblivious'? Yeah, we should hate our park and our team, do you even know what it means to be a fan? pathetic effort.
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What a f'ing joke. Have you ever read this board. People from wisconsin hate, bears fans, vikings fans, wisconsin fans, MU fans, pitt fans, lousiville fans, gt fans and every other fan base of any team they play. And every one has completely legit reasons.
Like any of you know anything about what goes on in the rest of the country. I know one person. ONE! who was born in wisconsin, went to mu, and doesn't still live in wisconsin. You are all born in some piece of $h!t small town, move to the big bright lights of milwuakee and then stay there. ANd yet somehow you are all experts on the different people living in regions across the country. Don't tell me what everyone in the world thinks, the cubs have the 3rd biggest following nation wide. I meet people from across the country every day and you are dead wrong.
We are 'oblivious'? Yeah, we should hate our park and our team, do you even know what it means to be a fan? pathetic effort.
Yeah and outside of Chicago (and nearby areas) Illinois is basically one small POS town as well. South of Chicago is basically a bunch of goat/sheep-f'ing Missourians.
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What a f'ing joke. Have you ever read this board. People from wisconsin hate, bears fans, vikings fans, wisconsin fans, MU fans, pitt fans, lousiville fans, gt fans and every other fan base of any team they play. And every one has completely legit reasons.
Like any of you know anything about what goes on in the rest of the country. I know one person. ONE! who was born in wisconsin, went to mu, and doesn't still live in wisconsin. You are all born in some piece of $h!t small town, move to the big bright lights of milwuakee and then stay there. ANd yet somehow you are all experts on the different people living in regions across the country. Don't tell me what everyone in the world thinks, the cubs have the 3rd biggest following nation wide. I meet people from across the country every day and you are dead wrong.
We are 'oblivious'? Yeah, we should hate our park and our team, do you even know what it means to be a fan? pathetic effort.
Hey buddy... get pissed.
Anyways, I'll explain what I meant by Cubs fans are oblivious. By oblivious I mean its hilarious how all Cubs fans can talk about is how GREAT their team is, how crap others are, how GREAT of fans they are, how crap others are. When someone points out a flaw to the Cubs, it is ignored as if it didn't happen. The reason why the rest of the nation (besides Cubs fans) hate the Cubs, along with their fans, is this idea that Cubs fans have that they might as well be St. Peter guarding the gate to heaven, because they, along with the Cubs are that holy. This is the same way Packer fans are(I'm one of them, I accept the fact this thought).
Your post also proved my point, so thank you.
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pathetic effort.
Yeah...I agree!
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Ok, you convinced me. I apologize for being a fan of a team that has flaws and hasn't won a championship recently. Some might say by liking the team despite it's flaws, that would make me a good fan. But you are right. I should quit on the team because someone thinks that zomborno is a head case, or that our stadium sucks.
Come on TT i think you need to apologize too. We should all quit being fans because some guy on the Internet doesn't like our team.
"ignored as if it didn't happen" - what are we supposed to do? Go see a priest? Flail ourselves?
And stop telling me what the rest of the nation thinks. It is blatantly not true. I've talked to 100's of non-cubs fans about baseball. After talking about their team about 90% of them will say that they have some level of affection for the cubs. This may come from the fact that they have lost so much, it may come from them playing in Wrigley but almost everyone i talk to has the cubs in their "list of teams i wouldn't mind seeing win one."
Where are you getting this information from? I play poker on a weekly basis and shoot the $$$$ with tons of sports fans from accross the country. I travel to conferences and have to connect to potential clients on a regular basis and sports is one of my goto topics. And no one, has ever mentioned anything about how the entire nation hates the cubs. This is something Wisconsin has made up.
You 'accept' that packer fans are this way? Why 'accept' it. Why not 'accept' that true 'fans' are that way. You are supposed to be an unconditional fan. If you aren't an unconditional fan than you are a fair weather fan or a bandwagon fan. Those two things are much worse. Why hate a group of fans because they persist despite losing and flaws? That is a good quality to have in a fan base, not something packer fans should have to apologize for.
And as for telling me I'm pissed, as Samuel jackson famously didn't say. I'm not yelling, this is just how i talk.
ps. lance, like i give a crap about IL outside of chicago, but thanks for not denying that you homebodies are afraid to leave you precious state.
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I apologize for being a fan of a team that has flaws and hasn't won a championship recently.
Haha biggest understatement of the day.
You're really an angry person Rawdog.
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ps. lance, like i give a crap about IL outside of chicago, but thanks for not denying that you homebodies are afraid to leave you precious state.
First, you don't know me. And second, I'll be the first to criticize Mke, but if staying here keeps me away from "brahs" like yourself, I am happy to oblige.
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Rawdog, I bet a decent amount of those who said they had affection for the cubs also had that same feeling for the Red Sox before 2004 for the same reason.
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I'm very happy to start our series vs. the Chubbies today. Bring the NL on! Our series vs. Milwaukee made the Brew Crew look like a little league team.. I wonder if the Cubs will fare any better against us. Probably not.
GO TWINS!
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http://deadspin.com/5288450/why-your-stadium-sucks-wrigley-field
'Nuff Said
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I'm very happy to start our series vs. the Chubbies today. Bring the NL on! Our series vs. Milwaukee made the Brew Crew look like a little league team.. I wonder if the Cubs will fare any better against us. Probably not.
GO TWINS!
Yeah. You guys sure had our number in that series. Now if you could beat anyone else, THAT would be something.
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http://deadspin.com/5288450/why-your-stadium-sucks-wrigley-field
'Nuff Said
This is actually a WEEKLY feature and they will be featuring EVERY ballpark in the Majors. Miller Park will get its turn too.
'Nuff Said
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I don't really care what they say about Miller Park, because the bad stuff can't be as bad (and true) as what they had in there about Wrigley.
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Milton Bradley played some fantastic defense tonight. Really worth that huge contract. Cubs are at .500. For all of the talk about how the Brewers were 1 step above a little league team and about how embarrassing their pitching rotation is at the beginning of this year it's pretty weird to see them in 1st place.
Meanwhile the Brewers are the only NL Central team to get a win tonight.
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The Cubs are 3.5 games out of first with A-Ram out and injuries to a number of other players.
I'll take it.
In 2007, at this time we were around 7 games out with no injuries and Rob Bowen was our starting catcher. Fat Giovanni Soto > Peak Shape Rob Bowen.
I'll definately take this year.
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Yeah. You guys sure had our number in that series. Now if you could beat anyone else, THAT would be something.
If we could play the NL all year long, we'd be 140-22.
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If we could play the NL all year long, we'd be 140-22.
You're one of the dumbest people I've ever come across.
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The Cubs are 3.5 games out of first with A-Ram out and injuries to a number of other players.
I'll take it.
In 2007, at this time we were around 7 games out with no injuries and Rob Bowen was our starting catcher. Fat Giovanni Soto > Peak Shape Rob Bowen.
I'll definately take this year.
I'm glad you're happy with your under .500 team that is in 4th place in the division
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You're one of the dumbest people I've ever come across.
Thanks, Pat. By the way, you still owe me.
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Thanks, Pat. By the way, you still owe me.
I owe you?
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I'm glad you're happy with your under .500 team that is in 4th place in the division
I don't see where I said I'm happy about this season. There are many things that need to be addressed.
What I said was that I'll take the problems of this year over the problems of 2007 which we overcame.
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Didn't have the energy to look back for the Braun/Jewish posts. Thought this was funny.
Rookie left-hander Aaron Poreda (who went to a Jesuit University, University of San Fran) still was glowing Saturday after he struck out three of the six batters he faced Friday night in his major-league debut.
"It was an incredible feeling, like all that nervousness went away as soon as I started running out on the field," said Poreda, who added he received more than a dozen text messages. "I got geared up and gave it everything I had."
Poreda said he had extra motivation before he struck out slugger and fellow Jewish player Ryan Braun.
"I actually thought about that when he was coming up, the battle of the Jews," Poreda laughed. "But he's a great player, amazing, and I was just trying to do my best."
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Upper Deck had a set of Jewish baseball cards not too long ago. It included:
- Ryan Braun
- Gabe Kapler
- Jason Marquis
- Kevin Youkilis
- Shawn Green
- Brad Ausmus
- Ian Kinsler
- Scott Schoeneweis
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The Cubs are 3.5 games out of first with A-Ram out and injuries to a number of other players.
I'll take it.
I would too. The Cubs are built for sustained success much more than the Brewers are. The injuries have killed them offensively. No doubt they win the Central by 3+ games once they get healthy.
The Brewers will get hot again, but fizzle after that. Just a ton of all or nothing hitters, and when they're cold they can't even make productive outs. Until the mindset changes, they'll never be able to contend for anything beyond a wild card spot.
They've been getting by on smoke and mirrors since Rickie went down, and unfortunately I don't think they'll be able to add an arm and a bat by the deadline. They need both desperately.
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Upper Deck had a set of Jewish baseball cards not too long ago. It included:
- Ryan Braun
- Gabe Kapler
- Jason Marquis
- Kevin Youkilis
- Shawn Green
- Brad Ausmus
- Ian Kinsler
- Scott Schoeneweis
When's the Catholic set coming out? Can you imagine the uproar?
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I would too. The Cubs are built for sustained success much more than the Brewers are. The injuries have killed them offensively. No doubt they win the Central by 3+ games once they get healthy.
The Brewers will get hot again, but fizzle after that. Just a ton of all or nothing hitters, and when they're cold they can't even make productive outs. Until the mindset changes, they'll never be able to contend for anything beyond a wild card spot.
They've been getting by on smoke and mirrors since Rickie went down, and unfortunately I don't think they'll be able to add an arm and a bat by the deadline. They need both desperately.
Hmmm...Cubs are built for sustained success...So when A-Ram returns, D-Lee will stop hitting like a 3rd grade girl? Milton Bradley will go on a tear to get his batting average up to .250? Soriano will magically realize that he should bat 2nd or 3rd?
The Cubs don't have a single hitter batting above .285, yet when A-Ram returns, everything will be ok?
And it is without a doubt the Cubs win the Central by 3+ games? I will take the field, and gladly wager.
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Hmmm...Cubs are built for sustained success...So when A-Ram returns, D-Lee will stop hitting like a 3rd grade girl? Milton Bradley will go on a tear to get his batting average up to .250? Soriano will magically realize that he should bat 2nd or 3rd?
The Cubs don't have a single hitter batting above .285, yet when A-Ram returns, everything will be ok?
And it is without a doubt the Cubs win the Central by 3+ games? I will take the field, and gladly wager.
Soriano doesn't get to choose his spot in the order, so I can't see how that's relevant. Ramirez provides some cover for Lee in the lineup, so it's silly to think he won't improve.
Bradley I'll give you. But he has the ability to get hot very quickly.
As a Brewers fan I hope you're right. But I can't see the Cubs lineup staying cold for an entire season. Once they heat up they'll pull away from the pack. Like TT said, it reminds me a lot of 07. Brewers were hot for the first 2 months, then faded. They don't have enough good hitters, and with Manny's meltdown, not enough starting pitching. The bullpen will be fried by August because of it.
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They've been getting by on smoke and mirrors since Rickie went down, and unfortunately I don't think they'll be able to add an arm and a bat by the deadline.
Not sure why you would say that. They have some of the best minor league talent in the league. When GMs are ready to move players, I assure you Doug Melvin is one of the first people they're calling.
If they can acquire a real lead off hitter, the offense will be plenty good. If they can't, I agree, it is gonna be a struggle.
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The problem is they have next to no pitching depth in the minors, and will probably not trade Escobar/Gamel/Green/Lucroy/Cain.
If the pockets were deep enough to lock up Hardy, Fielder, Hart, Gallardo, Weeks (assuming they want to) you could afford to deal those guys.
Such is the life of a small market team though. They're probably going to trade Hardy and Fielder, Cameron is up in the air beyond this year, and they're going to need a catcher soon.
In the next two years you're looking at possibly 4 or 5 spots open that they'll need the cheap, young players to fill.
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MUFan12-
W/ JJ weeks gamel? prince on the infield (McGehee is a great backup) won't we have to get rid of either escobar or one of the above infielders at some point just to clear space or $? The prospects we have seem like quality replacements.
What about Solome at catcher? until Lucroy is ready, we could have 2 good catchers then. And isn't Cain/Green still a year or two away from even having a cup of coffee in the pros during inter league play? and don't forget about Cole Gillespe or Brent Brewer. There is a lot of talent through the infield in the brewers org. And isnt our AA and A level ball stacked with soon to be talented pitchers?
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/06/16/sosa.steroids/index.html?eref=sihpT1
So now Sammy Sosa is, in fact, known to have taken steroids. Who would have guessed that 1?
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/06/16/sosa.steroids/index.html?eref=sihpT1
So now Sammy Sosa is, in fact, known to have taken steroids. Who would have guessed that 1?
Crap
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Didn't somebody say the Cubs are averaging less than 1 rainout per year? And throw out some random, probably made up, number of games on average that they even have a delay?
3rd rainout of the year at Wrigley this year. I'm glad baseball is played every day it is scheduled to be played at Miller Park. We even see 2 teams that aren't from Milwaukee play here sometimes because of weather problems in other cities.
What a terrible idea to have a retractable roof on a stadium.
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Didn't somebody say the Cubs are averaging less than 1 rainout per year? And throw out some random, probably made up, number of games on average that they even have a delay?
3rd rainout of the year at Wrigley this year. I'm glad baseball is played every day it is scheduled to be played at Miller Park. We even see 2 teams that aren't from Milwaukee play here sometimes because of weather problems in other cities.
What a terrible idea to have a retractable roof on a stadium.
Oh my god! It rained! Heaven forbid! I still don't want a roof, like the majority of baseball teams.
Like it was stated before, the Brewers need the roof, so the fans can plan their trips. Teams like the Cubs, Mets, Yanks, & Red Sox don't have to worry about this problems because the fans usually are showing up in droves rain or shine.
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Teams like the Cubs, Mets, Yanks, & Red Sox don't have to worry about this problems because the fans usually are showing up in droves rain or shine.
Very true statement, although look at the amount of people in those areas compared to MKE. It's not because they are better fans...
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Like it was stated before, the Brewers need the roof, so the fans can plan their trips. Teams like the Cubs, Mets, Yanks, & Red Sox don't have to worry about this problems because the fans usually are showing up in droves rain or shine.
Yeah, this wee little small market, Wrigley Field North team can only muster:
9th in avg. this year.
6th in % filled
6th in total attendance
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance
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Very true statement, although look at the amount of people in those areas compared to MKE. It's not because they are better fans...
Agreed.
Yeah, this wee little small market, Wrigley Field North team can only muster 9th in attendance this year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance
Yep. Would the absence of the roof change this?
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Yep. Would the absence of the roof change this?
I would have to say it would, but probably not more than the effect of moving them from (at most) 9th to 14th...
I have no evidence to back that up but I don't see it being any more drastic than that.
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I would have to say it would, but probably not more than the effect of moving them from (at most) 9th to 14th...
I have no evidence to back that up but I don't see it being any more drastic than that.
It's definitely tough to tell. The roof helps, but so does the Brew Crew playing so well for the past couple years.
As I recall the Miller Park attendance numbers were disappointing for quite a few years after the park opened.
From http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/attend.shtml
Per game attendance since Miller Park opened in 2001 along with our rank in per-game attendance.
2009 37,200
2008 37,882 6th of 16
2007 35,422 8th of 16
2006 28,835 10th of 16
2005 27,297 11th of 16
2004 25,462 13th of 16
2003 20,992 13th of 16
2002 24,311 11th of 16
2001 34,704 7th of 16
It looks like having a good ball club boosted our attendance by about 10k fans a game from a Miller Park avg attendance. Opening Miller Park with a roof seems to have boosted attendance from an average of around 20k fans per game to an average of 30k fans a game from decade to decade. Not a bad investment if you accept my fuzzy math :p
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I would have to say it would, but probably not more than the effect of moving them from (at most) 9th to 14th...
I have no evidence to back that up but I don't see it being any more drastic than that.
Disagree- Tampa Bay went to the world series last year, has a dome and they still are 23rd in attendance. Brewers made their first playoff apperance in my lifetime, we have 37k fans plus showing up to every game.
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It's definitely tough to tell. The roof helps, but so does the Brew Crew playing so well for the past couple years.
As I recall the Miller Park attendance numbers were disappointing for quite a few years after the park opened.
From http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIL/attend.shtml
Per game attendance since Miller Park opened in 2001 along with our rank in per-game attendance.
2009 37,200
2008 37,882 6th of 16
2007 35,422 8th of 16
2006 28,835 10th of 16
2005 27,297 11th of 16
2004 25,462 13th of 16
2003 20,992 13th of 16
2002 24,311 11th of 16
2001 34,704 7th of 16
It looks like having a good ball club boosted our attendance by about 10k fans a game from a Miller Park avg attendance. Opening Miller Park with a roof seems to have boosted attendance from an average of around 20k fans per game to an average of 30k fans a game from decade to decade. Not a bad investment if you accept my fuzzy math :p
If you build it he (they) will come...
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Hummmm. Good thing they have the roof!
MILWAUKEE (AP) — The Milwaukee Brewers' ballpark sustained significant flood damage during a strong storm early Friday morning, but team officials expect cleanup to be completed in time for the team's homestand next week.
Brewers spokesman Tyler Barnes said Miller Park's service level was flooded with water up to knee-deep in some places — including ankle-deep water in the clubhouse, forcing crews to tear out carpeting and remove furniture. Barnes said contents of players' lockers was not damaged and the field itself was not affected.
Barnes said the ballpark was functioning on backup power as of Friday afternoon.
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I have a roof on my house but that didn't keep water from getting into the basement. That sometimes will happen when you get 6" of rain.
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I have a roof on my house but that didn't keep water from getting into the basement. That sometimes will happen when you get 6" of rain.
Yeah no kidding. Pretty lame attempt there. Just curious, was any baseball missed because of it?
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Had the Brewers been at home yes baseball would have been misssed. Thank you for your follow ups proving a roof doesn't solve all of mother natures problems.
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I believe that no baseball was missed due to the rain.
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Had the Brewers been at home yes baseball would have been misssed. Thank you for your follow ups proving a roof doesn't solve all of mother natures problems.
this is probably one of the stupidest things I have heard.
a good bit of the city was under a couple of feet of water, and you are making fun of 18 inches of water in the SERVICE LEVEL?
I guess you missed the part where it said "The field itself was not affected".
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this is probably one of the stupidest things I have heard.
a good bit of the city was under a couple of feet of water, and you are making fun of 18 inches of water in the SERVICE LEVEL?
I guess you missed the part where it said "The field itself was not affected".
From what I understood, the field itself at The Juicebox wasn't affected last September, but the Astros still played 2 home games in Miller Park.
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Shouldn't we be talking about the sweeps over the weekend?
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Shouldn't we be talking about the sweeps over the weekend?
Come on, this is a Pissing Match.
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Oh yeah....how about some very meaningful power rankings then:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/powerRankings
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Shouldn't we be talking about the sweeps over the weekend?
Everybody who's anybody is sweeping the Indians.
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I'm very happy to start our series vs. the Chubbies today. Bring the NL on! Our series vs. Milwaukee made the Brew Crew look like a little league team.. I wonder if the Cubs will fare any better against us. Probably not.
GO TWINS!
Man, a little league team. Ahh, the irony after watching the Twins mail it in and throw the ball around the infield in the 8th tonight for a good old fashioned "little league home run" for Kendall tonight.
Brewers gotta get back on track.
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Geovoni Soto loves April 20
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I wonder if there were any cell phone cameras getting a glimpse of the action?
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I wonder if there were any cell phone cameras getting a glimpse of the action?
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4287155
Positive tests are enough for me me to believe it.
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We Tiger fans thank both of you for 6 of our 7 game winning streak. You all can start playing now that your series' with Detroit are over.
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We Tiger fans thank both of you for 6 of our 7 game winning streak. You all can start playing now that your series' with Detroit are over.
The Twins also enjoy playing against these slouch teams. Unfortunately, you Tigers get to walk all over them as well.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4287155
Positive tests are enough for me me to believe it.
Our pot smoking catcher hit a game winning 3-R HR today and threw out a base runner to end an inning with the game tied.....meanwhile the Brewers catcher (and Cubs throwaway) has been "out-homered" by Gallardo.
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Our pot smoking catcher hit a game winning 3-R HR today and threw out a base runner to end an inning with the game tied.....meanwhile the Brewers catcher (and Cubs throwaway) has been "out-homered" by Gallardo.
Are you honestly gloating about a player who is batting .232 and has a .389 slugging %? The Cubs have gone THAT low? Wow. I don't think you'll find anybody arguing that Jason Kendall is a good offensive baseball player. By the way, the Brewers won today as well, so congratulations.
Anyhow, Milton Bradley now is taking his anger out on the cooler instead of ball bags. He had a nice 3 innings off to end the night. Attitude reflect leadership, I suppose.
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Attitude reflect leadership, I suppose.
Really? So Milton's attitude is because of Lou? The same Lou who yelled at Bradley to take off his jersey and go home? The same Lou who followed Bradley up the tunnel to hew him out some more?
Yeah sounds like Lou is all for Milton's behavior.
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Really? So Milton's attitude is because of Lou? The same Lou who yelled at Bradley to take off his jersey and go home? The same Lou who followed Bradley up the tunnel to hew him out some more?
Yeah sounds like Lou is all for Milton's behavior.
It was somewhat of a joke, but to say that Sweet Lou doesn't have a temper of his own is a joke too.
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Are you honestly gloating about a player who is batting .232 and has a .389 slugging %? The Cubs have gone THAT low? Wow. I don't think you'll find anybody arguing that Jason Kendall is a good offensive baseball player. By the way, the Brewers won today as well, so congratulations.
Anyhow, Milton Bradley now is taking his anger out on the cooler instead of ball bags. He had a nice 3 innings off to end the night. Attitude reflect leadership, I suppose.
Cubs OCD.
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Cubs OCD.
What? I replied to a post about a CUBS player in a Brewers/CUBS Pissing match. Weird. Who would do that?
I love these responses from Cubs fans. They go off about how great of a player they have and then when the facts are brought into the picture (.232 batting average and a .389 slugging %) the only response is "Cubs OCD" because they know they are wrong, so it must just be an obsession over the Cubs! Yeah, that's it! I probably should have just let it go at "Geovony Soto is a god" because a Cubs fan said it so it must be true, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. After all, he IS killing the ball this year! But I am obsessed!
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I'm fine with dancers and slides over the circus act that will be Pinella, Zambrano, and Bradley in the same clubhouse for an entire baseball season. Over/under on first punch thrown at May 15.
Okay, so maybe I was a bit off with my wager for the first blow up, but the point stands all the same.
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=4292202
Lou Piniella couldn't even get his own age right.
"Look, I'm 66 years old," he said Saturday, before correcting himself. (He's 65.) "I feel like 68."
Sixty-five, 68 -- does it matter anymore? Piniella is aging in Cubs years. His team, the consensus preseason favorite to win the NL Central, the NL pennant and perhaps even the franchise's first World Series since 1908, is a mind-boggling 35-36 after Saturday's loss to the White Sox. With apologies to Dennis Green's legendary rant, the Cubs are not who we thought they were.
Still, the Cubs are going to win the division, mostly because they have the best starting pitching and because Aramis Ramirez and his injured left shoulder should be back in the lineup before the All-Star break. But even if they do reach the playoffs, don't be in a hurry to thank Piniella.
So far, 2009 has been one of Piniella's most trying years as a manager. And part of it is his own fault.
Piniella has been tone-deaf when it comes to handling the ongoing situations involving Milton Bradley, Carlos Zambrano, Kosuke Fukudome and Alfonso Soriano. Mixed messages have turned into double standards.
Bradley, the Cubs' $30 million right fielder, threw a hissy fit in the dugout during Friday's game. He tossed his batting helmet. He went WWE on a Gatorade cooler. In short, he was his usual Milton self -- the temperature light on his temper a glowing red. This is news?
Zambrano goes nuts in the dugout, and he gets a private audience with Piniella and a verbal slap on the knuckles. The incident is downplayed. But Bradley does the same sort of thing, and he gets vaporized in private and in public by the manager.
Piniella followed Bradley from the dugout to the visitors clubhouse at U.S. Cellular Field and, according to the Chicago Sun-Times and Bradley himself, called the right fielder a "piece of s---." Later, in the postgame news conference, Piniella volunteered details of the incident.
I'm not saying Piniella was wrong in confronting Bradley. He's right: Someone very expensive in the Cubs' dugout could have gotten hurt. In fact, this being the Cubs, I'm surprised Bradley's helmet didn't go on the 15-day DL.
But why Bradley? Why does Zambrano essentially get a series of free bad-behavior passes while Bradley is told to ditch the uni and go home early? At what point is there one rule for Big Z's temper and an entirely different one for Little B's?
"This has been a while of this," Piniella said. "I've talked to the other people too, believe me. Look, the first thing is, you don't want people getting hurt. You really don't. I've talked to a couple other people here rather strongly about it, and it's totally been abated except for this thing here. [On Friday] I was right in doing what I did. I probably should have just stayed in the dugout. I heard him mumbling some things, and I followed him up. Look, things get … emotion[al]. What can I say? I'm sorry it happened, and I wish it hadn't happened. That's all I can say."
Bradley has a long and sometimes ugly history of dustups. But so does Zambrano. And it's not as though Bradley is going anywhere. His three-year, $30 million deal makes him all but untradeable. (Memo to Milton: Lose the No. 21 jersey. It's the "Curse of Sammy" 21.)
Ryan Dempster had a Gatorade machine moment in the Wrigley Field dugout earlier in the season. Ted Lilly jumped the dugout fence to confront an umpire. Carlos Marmol tossed his glove and sent containers and gum flying on the same day as Bradley's outburst. It happens. The difference is, when it happens to Bradley he's singled out, as if his tantrum was worse than the others'.
"Winning always creates harmony," Dempster said after Saturday's loss. "Winning brings out the best; losing brings out the worst."
We don't know what goes on in the clubhouse once the doors are closed, but it doesn't feel harmonious. But we do know that Bradley told the Chicago Tribune that he feels isolated on his own team. Some of it is his own doing (a .236 average, five home runs, 16 RBIs, mental mistakes in the field), but it doesn't help when Piniella gives Bradley GPS directions to the Cubs' woodshed.
"Look, he understands," Piniella said. "I don't want problems with players. I don't want problems with anybody. This job's tough enough without having to have confrontations. It was only for a few seconds. It wasn't long. The problem is that we have the sanctity of a clubhouse here. I'm disappointed that something like that gets out. Because there are a lot of heated things that are said in the clubhouse at times. They should just stay there."
But they didn't. They leaked out, and with it, so did some of Piniella's credibility.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but this isn't the first time Piniella has sent mixed messages. Ask Fukudome. If you injected Piniella with even the tiniest dose of truth serum, here's guessing you'd find out that Fukudome wouldn't be in Lou's Fave Five. Or Fave 500.
Meanwhile, Soriano is treated with gloves as soft as fresh hot dog buns. Doesn't matter that his batting average is just .228 or that his on-base percentage is a microscopic .292 (as a leadoff man!), or that he's a defensive liability. Soriano even had the stones to tell the Tribune that if Bradley "is not 100 percent to help the team, we don't need him." Soriano added that Bradley is "a great guy."
This from a player who has been so cold during the past 32 games (25 of 140, .179) that you wanted to bat him 10th in the lineup. As bad as Bradley has been -- and he's been brutal -- he's still hitting nine points higher than Soriano and has an OBP 63 points higher.
The Cubs beat the White Sox on Friday, though Piniella said the Bradley incident "took the joy out of winning a baseball game." So just think how he felt Saturday after the Sox scored a winning run with two outs in the bottom of the ninth to beat the Cubs, 8-7.
"We're going to get on a streak," Piniella said afterward. "It's just a question of when and how soon."
They're on a streak right now. It's called losing five of your last six.
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What? I replied to a post about a CUBS player in a Brewers/CUBS Pissing match. Weird. Who would do that?
I love these responses from Cubs fans. They go off about how great of a player they have and then when the facts are brought into the picture (.232 batting average and a .389 slugging %) the only response is "Cubs OCD" because they know they are wrong, so it must just be an obsession over the Cubs! Yeah, that's it! I probably should have just let it go at "Geovony Soto is a god" because a Cubs fan said it so it must be true, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. After all, he IS killing the ball this year! But I am obsessed!
Take it easy....my point was Soto is better than Kendall, that he hit the game winning HR on Friday...pot smoking or otherwise....it was pretty straight forward really. Funny how you've turned into such a statistician these days when I've been criticized for supporting my points with stats in the past...granted I've never used UZR. The topic was catchers and you shift to Bradley, etc...you're on top of EVERY negative Cubs story as evidenced by your posts....it's hilarious. As I've said before, it's hard to tell if you get more enjoyment from a Brewers win or a Cubs loss...or negative story....or power ranking in May....it's turned comical.
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Take it easy....my point was Soto is better than Kendall, that he hit the game winning HR on Friday...pot smoking or otherwise....it was pretty straight forward really. Funny how you've turned into such a statistician these days when I've been criticized for supporting my points with stats in the past...granted I've never used UZR. The topic was catchers and you shift to Bradley, etc...you're on top of EVERY negative Cubs story as evidenced by your posts....it's hilarious. As I've said before, it's hard to tell if you get more enjoyment from a Brewers win or a Cubs loss...or negative story....or power ranking in May....it's turned comical.
Perhaps... but the real question remains whether it's more or less comical than Cubs' fans self-perceived superiority over the rest of the division and the rest of baseball.
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My boys just got done crushing the NL in Interleague play. 14-4, best interleague record in baseball. Unfortunately tomorrow we begin playing with the big boys again...the American League.
;)
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Take it easy....my point was Soto is better than Kendall, that he hit the game winning HR on Friday...pot smoking or otherwise....it was pretty straight forward really. Funny how you've turned into such a statistician these days when I've been criticized for supporting my points with stats in the past...granted I've never used UZR. The topic was catchers and you shift to Bradley, etc...you're on top of EVERY negative Cubs story as evidenced by your posts....it's hilarious. As I've said before, it's hard to tell if you get more enjoyment from a Brewers win or a Cubs loss...or negative story....or power ranking in May....it's turned comical.
And my point was pretty straight forward too...I do not understand how you can gloat about a catcher who IS NOT VERY GOOD. If you can find me a post that claims Jason Kendall is better than Geovony Soto then I can understand why you would post that, but otherwise I'm not sure who you're trying to convince...
And I thought I was posting in a Brewers and Cubs pissing match. My bad. I'll stay on 1 topic from now on.
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If you ask the majority of Cubs fans they will be the first to tell you the team is playing like crap. The pitching has been incredible but that doesn't help when you can't score. Side note: Almost all Cubs fans were also against Milton Bradley when he was signed.
We know our team is bad. You Brewer fans need to grasp that your team is bad too. The whole division us a lump of bad.
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If you ask the majority of Cubs fans they will be the first to tell you the team is playing like crap. The pitching has been incredible but that doesn't help when you can't score. Side note: Almost all Cubs fans were also against Milton Bradley when he was signed.
We know our team is bad. You Brewer fans need to grasp that your team is bad too. The whole division us a lump of bad.
Interesting point and interesting polling data to back it up!
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And my point was pretty straight forward too...I do not understand how you can gloat about a catcher who IS NOT VERY GOOD. If you can find me a post that claims Jason Kendall is better than Geovony Soto then I can understand why you would post that, but otherwise I'm not sure who you're trying to convince...
And I thought I was posting in a Brewers and Cubs pissing match. My bad. I'll stay on 1 topic from now on.
You need to re-read my post...I certainly wasn't "gloating" over Soto's season...just pointing out that he hit the game winning HR the same day you were ripping on him for smoking pot...pretty straight forward...also that Kendall has 0 HR and is a Cubs throwaway....it's a pissing match, right? I'll take my chances with Soto as our catcher for the foreseeable future. He's obviously had a terrible start but he's still top 5 in the league in throwing runners out and still an offensive threat....Kendall is neither.
Try staying on topic within one post....when arguing about catchers how is our RF relevant to that discussion? It's just your way of wrapping in another negative Cubs-related story. Again, it's not clear whether you enjoy a Brewers win/success more than a Cubs loss, negative story, injury, etc. Anytime anything remotely negative happens to the Cubs you're scrambling to the nearest keyboard and here posting within the hour...your avatar and tagline on your profile, tiresome nicknames, etc....Cubs OCD. It's hilarious.
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time for you to go stat check Kendall's pick off stats for the last 2 years.
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time for you to go stat check Kendall's pick off stats for the last 2 years.
Yeah no kidding. You have no idea what you're talking about 84. Again, nobody is ever going to argue that Jason Kendall is an offensive threat. But to say he's not a good defender? Really? You didn't have the coaching to help him. NED FREAKING YOST was able to see something and it took 1 minor adjustment to turn him into an EXTREMELY good defensive catcher.
Last year: Jason Kendall - 55 stolen bases against, 41 runners caught stealing
Geovony Soto (just because you say he's both an offensive and defensive threat and Kendall is neither) - 69 stolen bases against, 25 runners caught stealing
You're right, defensively Soto blows Kendall out of the water. Well played though.
It's hilarious.
And you are absolutely correct, it is hilarious how big of a circus this Cubs team is. This is a team that is 2 games under .500 who at the beginning of the year was supposed to have absolutely no holes in the lineup and was supposed to run away with the division from start to finish. So yes, this is quite hilarious.
He's obviously had a terrible start.
And when does the "start" to a season end? You realized the season's about 1/2 way done right?
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After Cubs manager Lou Piniella pointed out the spike in attendance from 22,000 when the Dodgers faced the White Sox last week to a full house when the Cubs visited U.S. Cellular Field this weekend, Sox manager Ozzie Guillen was asked why attendance was so low for the Dodgers series.
"Because our fans are not stupid like Cubs fans," Guillen said. "They know we're [expletive]." Guillen said Cubs fans will watch any game at Wrigley Field because "Wrigley Field is just a bar."
Hah Ozzie is a very smart man. Also, what does Lou think? I wonder why attendance would rise...1 team is from 2,000 miles away and the other plays in the same city. I can't figure it out either.
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time for you to go stat check Kendall's pick off stats for the last 2 years.
Are we talking about the last 2 years or this year?
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Are we talking about the last 2 years or this year?
I meant what I said. He has been lower this year, but for you to assert that Soto is a better defensive catcher than Kendall is pretty ridiculous.
I consider myself a pretty balanced fan... I know the Brewers are screwed for this year, and I would be thrilled if they were in the playoff hunt in August/Sept... but I don't see it happening.
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Yeah no kidding. You have no idea what you're talking about 84. Again, nobody is ever going to argue that Jason Kendall is an offensive threat. But to say he's not a good defender? Really? You didn't have the coaching to help him. NED FREAKING YOST was able to see something and it took 1 minor adjustment to turn him into an EXTREMELY good defensive catcher.
Last year: Jason Kendall - 55 stolen bases against, 41 runners caught stealing
Geovony Soto (just because you say he's both an offensive and defensive threat and Kendall is neither) - 69 stolen bases against, 25 runners caught stealing
You're right, defensively Soto blows Kendall out of the water. Well played though.
And you are absolutely correct, it is hilarious how big of a circus this Cubs team is. This is a team that is 2 games under .500 who at the beginning of the year was supposed to have absolutely no holes in the lineup and was supposed to run away with the division from start to finish. So yes, this is quite hilarious.
And when does the "start" to a season end? You realized the season's about 1/2 way done right?
Who's 84? Where did I say Kendall was a bad defender? Life would be a lot easier for you if you read in black in white....I said Soto is in the top 5 in throwing out runners...this year....and I would rather have him as my catcher. It'll be interesting to see what you read into this. Great stats on last year....but why are you talking about last year? I wasn't. Do I get to bring up Soto's ROY offensive numbers then too?
No, the hilarious thing I was pointing out was your Cubs OCD...not the Cubs disaster of a first half so far. On paper the Cubs had the most talent in the division when the season started....injuries and players playing well below their career numbers may have just a little to do with this mess...pepper in a few outbursts and suspensions and you have a disaster. Ramirez coming back relatively soon should help...not the savior by any means but should certainly help.
Within the first half of the season does not constitute the "start" of the season? Perhaps I should've used "first half." Soto's numbers will slowly improve. If he hits .250 with 15 HRs and 65 RBIs, I'll take it.
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maybe you've missed it, but every reply that wade makes is not directed towards you...
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I meant what I said. He has been lower this year, but for you to assert that Soto is a better defensive catcher than Kendall is pretty ridiculous.
I consider myself a pretty balanced fan... I know the Brewers are screwed for this year, and I would be thrilled if they were in the playoff hunt in August/Sept... but I don't see it happening.
I never denied that Kendall has historically been a good defensive catcher....he was a Cub....I remember. All I was doing was using this season's stats for throwing out runners....it really wasn't meant to be a comprehensive comparison between the two.
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maybe you've missed it, but every reply that wade makes is not directed towards you...
Thanks. Usually when someone quotes your post in their response it would seem as if it's directed back to you...no?
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What a joke.
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5167/picture1wyw.png)
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Let's take another look.
(http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad197/scrubmdjd/fox.jpg)
Who will be the first to argue that this wasn't a gift to the Cubs?
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Looks borderline to me, could go either way. I'd like to know how the ump had been calling those pitches all game before rendering a verdict. If that pitch was a ball all game, then I'd say he was consistent. Honestly, a call either way on that pitch would not be surprising. I thought strike one in that count was outside. Earlier in the game, the Cubs walked in a Brewer, that was another close pitch but the ump got it right (it was inside) IMO.
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Few if any umpires call the high strike.
EDIT: Plus the umpire isn't going to call a strike on that when DeFelice had already walked two guys in the inning. That's not going to help you get the benefit of the doubt.
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Few if any umpires call the high strike.
EDIT: Plus the umpire isn't going to call a strike on that when DeFelice had already walked two guys in the inning. That's not going to help you get the benefit of the doubt.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the two other walks in the inning were intentional... why would an ump hold those against a pitcher?
Whatever, just one game.
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Few if any umpires call the high strike.
EDIT: Plus the umpire isn't going to call a strike on that when DeFelice had already walked two guys in the inning. That's not going to help you get the benefit of the doubt.
That is a ridiculous statement.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the two other walks in the inning were intentional... why would an ump hold those against a pitcher?
Whatever, just one game.
Intentional? After going 3-0 I guess it was officially intentional, but he was all over the place.
Having said that, I believe that was a questionable call. But calling it a "gift" is a little much considering the bases were loaded. Were all three of those runners "gifts?"
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the two other walks in the inning were intentional... why would an ump hold those against a pitcher?
Whatever, just one game.
I promised myself I wouldn't get into this tread, but according to the JS article, "The Brewers failed to put away the Cubs with several opportunities before reliever Mark DiFelice got into trouble in the 10th. Ryan Theriot singled and, with two outs and first base open, DiFelice intentionally walked Milton Bradley. After falling behind, 3-0, to Geovany Soto, DiFelice intentionally walked him to load the bases."
So, the 2nd walk goes in the books as intentional, but only because he couldn't get a strike in the 3 prior pitches. So, in a way, you are both right. In the end, the earth is still revolving, and there still is half the season left.
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Jinx
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We have fans in high places..
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I really enjoyed Soriano charging in on that ball only to have it go over his head by a few feet for a double just now.
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Umpires in Chicago have had their share of problems of getting calls correct behind home plate
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://firedoug.com/misc/p1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://firedoug.com/blowncall.htm&usg=__MeF8-7vDRP4FtWb_F6xmJbOlI08=&h=376&w=682&sz=188&hl=en&start=16&um=1&tbnid=Y2PFJOyK71WkmM:&tbnh=77&tbnw=139&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djosh%2Bpaul%2Bwhite%2Bsox%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1
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Umpires in Chicago have had their share of problems of getting calls correct behind home plate
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://firedoug.com/misc/p1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://firedoug.com/blowncall.htm&usg=__MeF8-7vDRP4FtWb_F6xmJbOlI08=&h=376&w=682&sz=188&hl=en&start=16&um=1&tbnid=Y2PFJOyK71WkmM:&tbnh=77&tbnw=139&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djosh%2Bpaul%2Bwhite%2Bsox%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1
Angels should have tried winning one of the games in Anaheim in that series. Sour grapes my friend, sour grapes ;)
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I really enjoyed Soriano charging in on that ball only to have it go over his head by a few feet for a double just now.
See I really enjoyed Corey Hart having the ball hit his glove only to fall out. That's just me though ;D
That is a ridiculous statement.
Is it really that ridiculous? You've never seen a situation where a pitcher is struggling with his command and the umpire won't give him a close call?
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Also rather than start a thread for this, I wanted to say I love Manny Ramirez. But was it really necessary for FOX to cut into other games to watch day 2 of Manny's return?
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See I really enjoyed Corey Hart having the ball hit his glove only to fall out. That's just me though ;D
Whenever I am feeling down, nothing cheers me up more than watching Milton Bradley attempt to play the outfield. He's a joke, where you know the punchline...but you still laugh your ass off anyways.
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Also rather than start a thread for this, I wanted to say I love Manny Ramirez. But was it really necessary for FOX to cut into other games to watch day 2 of Manny's return?
That sure was strange. Especially since it wasn't even day 1. Oh well, my fantasy team sure appreciated his home run.
And for the record, I really like Manny too. I think we've all pretty much come to terms with the fact that anyone who's anyone over the last decade-ish in baseball was on something. Either way, I think Manny is second only to Pujols when considering the best pure hitters of this generation.
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That sure was strange. Especially since it wasn't even day 1. Oh well, my fantasy team sure appreciated his home run.
And for the record, I really like Manny too. I think we've all pretty much come to terms with the fact that anyone who's anyone over the last decade-ish in baseball was on something. Either way, I think Manny is second only to Pujols when considering the best pure hitters of this generation.
Agreed. No matter what he was on, he can see the ball better than anyone in the majors.
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Agreed. No matter what he was on, he can see the ball better than anyone in the majors.
Um...Pujols?
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Angels should have tried winning one of the games in Anaheim in that series. Sour grapes my friend, sour grapes ;)
True, but the Angels did win one game...the first game in Chicago. And if they win that game with the blown call, they go home up 2-0....totally different series. That loss killed them.
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True, but the Angels did win one game...the first game in Chicago. And if they win that game with the blown call, they go home up 2-0....totally different series. That loss killed them.
I was there for Game 1 when the Angels win, only Sox loss of the entire playoffs. Remarkable run that postseason, one of the best runs a starting staff has ever had in the playoffs.
Perhaps a different series if that call goes differently, but they still went home tied in that series 1-1. 3 more games weren't decided by that one call.
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Good weekend. Took 3 of 4. Aramis, Guz & Reed return on Monday.
As bad as the Cubs have been and all the problems wadesworld has documented, they still have the best chance to take the division.
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Good weekend. Took 3 of 4. Aramis, Guz & Reed return on Monday.
As bad as the Cubs have been and all the problems wadesworld has documented, they still have the best chance to take the division.
How do you come to this conclusion.. based off of one weekend?
I'll still take my preseason pick of the Cardinals.
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How do you come to this conclusion.. based off of one weekend?
I'll still take my preseason pick of the Cardinals.
Based off of the best ERA in the division. Based off of the Cubs have played terrible ball and tied in the loss column. Based off of that Bradley & Soriano are drastically under their career averages, which will correct itself in the second half. Based off of the fact that the bullpen has shown strong signs of stabilization. Based off of the contribution of our minor league players, something our teams have lacked. Based off of that our most valuable player is coming back after two months on the DL.
The Cubs went through two terrible months, are 2.5 games back in the division, and just took it to the Brewers 3 out of 4. There is nothing that could be worse, and things are only getting better.
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Based off of the best ERA in the division. Based off of the Cubs have played terrible ball and tied in the loss column. Based off of that Bradley & Soriano are drastically under their career averages, which will correct itself in the second half. Based off of the fact that the bullpen has shown strong signs of stabilization. Based off of the contribution of our minor league players, something our teams have lacked. Based off of that our most valuable player is coming back after two months on the DL.
The Cubs went through two terrible months, are 2.5 games back in the division, and just took it to the Brewers 3 out of 4. There is nothing that could be worse, and things are only getting better.
I love how Cubs fans act as though 1/2 the season is a 2 week stretch. Like they are just cold. I hope you realize that teams rarely have half a season worth of flukes and that teams usually aren't having "terrible months" and then just get hot and turn it on. And that coming back from a separated shoulder isn't exactly the same as coming back from a blister on a finger. It took Dwyane Wade almost a full season after he separated his shoulder in order to get back to his normal form. You could be right, the Cubs could win the division in the end, but I'm really thinking that the Cubs haven't just had "2 terrible months," but instead, are just not a good baseball team.
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I love how Cubs fans act as though 1/2 the season is a 2 week stretch. Like they are just cold. I hope you realize that teams rarely have half a season worth of flukes and that teams usually aren't having "terrible months" and then just get hot and turn it on. And that coming back from a separated shoulder isn't exactly the same as coming back from a blister on a finger. It took Dwyane Wade almost a full season after he separated his shoulder in order to get back to his normal form. You could be right, the Cubs could win the division in the end, but I'm really thinking that the Cubs haven't just had "2 terrible months," but instead, are just not a good baseball team.
So you're going on record saying that no team has ever had a bad two months? Are you sure?
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So you're going on record saying that no team has ever had a bad two months? Are you sure?
Hah there are, but they are bad teams. I just think it's funny that Cubs fans never think they have a bad team, it's just that "everything that could go wrong has gone wrong." Even if the team is awful.
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Based off of the best ERA in the division. Based off of the Cubs have played terrible ball and tied in the loss column. Based off of that Bradley & Soriano are drastically under their career averages, which will correct itself in the second half. Based off of the fact that the bullpen has shown strong signs of stabilization. Based off of the contribution of our minor league players, something our teams have lacked. Based off of that our most valuable player is coming back after two months on the DL.
The Cubs went through two terrible months, are 2.5 games back in the division, and just took it to the Brewers 3 out of 4. There is nothing that could be worse, and things are only getting better.
I am going to go in a different direction then Wade did with this one.
Looking at your reasons the Cubs are most likely the frontrunners to win the division, almost every single one I could say about the Brewers, and I could switch some of the others with other fantastic things to say about the team.
Are the Cubs the only team in the division that have players vastly under performing? The Brewers could use a normal performance from Hart, Hardy, Cameron, Kendall(although he is picking it up as of late)... and Ill take a little bit more from Hall, although that is unlikely.
The Cubs the only team dealing with injuries? Don't think so.
The Brewers bullpen have shown signs of stability.
We have had minor league players stepping it up (McGehee anybody?)
The Brewers haven't been playing particularly good ball as of late too, something that apparently just be smoothed out, the same way you figure Cubs ball will be smoothed out.
Just understand that when you prove your broad statement such as "having the best chance to take the division", and you use very broad statements that really could be said about ANY team in the majors, you aren't fooling anybody.
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As much as it pains me to say it, I agree with PTM on the Cubs. :o
The Cubs are getting healthier, and thanks to "McBurns," now Lee is heating up. Their pitching has been excellent. I still think they win the division by 5 games.
On to the Brewers. Since May 17th, when Weeks was hurt, the Brewers have gone 20-25. That's a pretty significant chunk of games in which to look at. Without a major move, I can't see them doing much better than 500 ball.
Their rotation is thin, the bullpen will be soon spent, and the lineup isn't producing. They have a bunch of all or nothing hitters outside of Counsell, Braun, Fielder, and as of now, McGehee. But people will figure out how to pitch Casey, and it's reasonable to think his numbers will drop.
But guys like Cameron, Hart, and Hardy are not guys we can expect to produce consistently. They can't even be counted on to make productive outs (see Hart in the Mets game Wednesday). Those three, with Kendall and Hall, make it very difficult for the Brewers to score runs on a consistent basis.
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the brewers need two things to be in the picture for the division. One is another starting pitcher. Whether that come through a trade, Capuano or Parra miraculously coming back from injury/mental issues when getting behind, or some other way, they need someway of boosting the rotation. The other is a contact hitter. Anyone to change up the lineup a little (preferably lefty bat) so it isn't one guy after another trying to go yard/pull the ball.
As long as Albert stays healthy, he will probably carry the Cards to the Division title but with Aramis coming back as well as the others ptm listed, chances are the Cubs will be getting better before they get worse. It doesn't help that Lee is heating up from the plate now either. Still think it will most likely be a three team race by the end of August with the Reds finding a way to sink back to mediocrity.
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the brewers need two things to be in the picture for the division. One is another starting pitcher. Whether that come through a trade, Capuano or Parra miraculously coming back from injury/mental issues when getting behind, or some other way, they need someway of boosting the rotation. The other is a contact hitter. Anyone to change up the lineup a little (preferably lefty bat) so it isn't one guy after another trying to go yard/pull the ball.
As long as Albert stays healthy, he will probably carry the Cards to the Division title but with Aramis coming back as well as the others ptm listed, chances are the Cubs will be getting better before they get worse. It doesn't help that Lee is heating up from the plate now either. Still think it will most likely be a three team race by the end of August with the Reds finding a way to sink back to mediocrity.
Dave Bush coming back from injury won't hurt the Brewers, no need for a miracle, just a fashionable beard.
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with the Reds finding a way to sink back to mediocrity.
I already found it.
(http://badseed57.mlblogs.com/baker.jpg)
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The Cubs have been my pick and have remained my pick, but I am starting to waiver a bit. For the cubs its pretty simple...it comes down to ARam and Marmol. The starting pitching is solid (although I would argue it is also a bit fragile when you consider Harden and Zambrano, for different reasons being candidates to hurt you more than they help you at any time), and that's the biggest advantage they have right now. If Ramirez cannot come back and be effective, and if Marmol does not turn back into Marmol, the Cubs have no shot. They are only going to get worse. If they do come back and perform up to their standards in the second half, the Cubs will win the division.
If the Brewers do manage to pull of a trade for some starting pitching and another bat (preferably a lead off hitter), I may rethink this, as I think that could put them right there, but until then, its the Cubs.
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Dave Bush coming back from injury won't hurt the Brewers, no need for a miracle, just a fashionable beard.
that will at least get Seth back into the mid-innings bullpen roll but I still think we need a little more pitching help as you can never have too much. The main thing though is our offense is way too one dimensional. Up and down the lineup are power bats or guys that try to pull the ball way too much. Hart and Hardy need to focus on hitting to contact more and stop trying to pull every pitch they get. The frustrating thing with that is Hart has one game every week or two where he does this and goes 4-4 or 4-5 but then has an 0-20 streak. Consistency is something this club needs more of to push for the division in the second half of the season.
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Looks like the brewers are starting to feel the heat!
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4308312 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4308312)
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With the pitching staff the Brewers have, it is hard for me to worry about them.
I will give you Gallardo but after that theres nothing of quality. The Brewers need to go out a get a starter.
Also the sale of the Cubs was finalized (just needs MLB owners approval which it will get) so we should find out shortly if money will be available for the Cubs to spend in a mid-season trade.
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Looks like the brewers are starting to feel the heat!
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4308312 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4308312)
Braun should be calling out Hart, Hardy and Cam too if he's going to call out pitching.
What would the reaction be if Gallardo called out the offense for the 1-0 loss he took...
I'd welcome it.
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Looks like the brewers are starting to feel the heat!
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4308312 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4308312)
Oh no :o!
Also, "Teammate Ryan Braun, who has become a terrific left fielder in no time, is another worthy candidate." From SI's list of mid-season awards. Weird, I keep reading that Ryan Braun has become a great left fielder from sites like ESPN and SI, but Cubs fans continue to say he is one of the worst defenders in the league.
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Funny,
My post had nothing to do with the quality of ryan braun...
I was just posting that it looks as if Braun sees the Brewers going no where if they don't make a move!
Name one person besides gallardo that is better than someone on the cardinals and the cubs starting rotation.
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Funny,
My post had nothing to do with the quality of ryan braun...
I was just posting that it looks as if Braun sees the Brewers going no where if they don't make a move!
Name one person besides gallardo that is better than someone on the cardinals and the cubs starting rotation.
I know, I was just saying that apparently some unbiased people seem to think Ryan Braun is a good left fielder (not just offensive player and terrible defender).
Name 1 team ahead of the Brewers in the standings besides the Cardinals. The funny thing is that we have had this pitching rotation all year and are only one game out of 1st place, so apparently it's not as bad as people make it out to be. Or else the Cubs are just that bad (my pick). It has to be 1 of the 2.
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Yup,
I would put Seth McClung over any pitcher on the cubs or cardinals...
Look at the quote of Braun, he is tired of playing from behind. Wade, if you think you will win the division or wildcard with your rotation as is, im willing to put some type of bet down on this.
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I know, I was just saying that apparently some unbiased people seem to think Ryan Braun is a good left fielder (not just offensive player and terrible defender).
Name 1 team ahead of the Brewers in the standings besides the Cardinals. The funny thing is that we have had this pitching rotation all year and are only one game out of 1st place, so apparently it's not as bad as people make it out to be. Or else the Cubs are just that bad (my pick). It has to be 1 of the 2.
Funny, because those unbiased people also think the Cubs have a better team than the Brewers. Hell, even Ryan Braun knows the Cubs have a better team than the Brewers, but wadesworld will keep on saying they're bad.
Also to follow up on a separate issue, wadesworld.
Hah there are, but they are bad teams. I just think it's funny that Cubs fans never think they have a bad team, it's just that "everything that could go wrong has gone wrong." Even if the team is awful.
Since the Cubs had a bad two months, and went 26-27 in the months of May & June, you have called them a bad team. You also followed up on my comment "So you're going on record saying that no team has ever had a bad two months? Are you sure?" with the above quote stating that any team that has a bad two months is a 'bad' team.
wadesworld, would you trade the Brewers season with any of the following teams from their respective years?
2005 - Houston Astros - 19-32 over a two month span.
2006 - St. Louis Cardinals - 49-59 over a four month span.
2007 - Colorado Rockies - 25-29 over a two month span.
2007 - Boston Red Sox - 26-28 over a two month span.
I'm assuming you're going to call those four teams from the recent past bad teams, correct?
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Wow,
Quality stats you bring up there PTM!
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Funny, because those unbiased people also think the Cubs have a better team than the Brewers. Hell, even Ryan Braun knows the Cubs have a better team than the Brewers, but wadesworld will keep on saying they're bad.
Also to follow up on a separate issue, wadesworld.
Since the Cubs had a bad two months, and went 26-27 in the months of May & June, you have called them a bad team. You also followed up on my comment "So you're going on record saying that no team has ever had a bad two months? Are you sure?" with the above quote stating that any team that has a bad two months is a 'bad' team.
wadesworld, would you trade the Brewers season with any of the following teams from their respective years?
2005 - Houston Astros - 19-32 over a two month span.
2006 - St. Louis Cardinals - 49-59 over a four month span.
2007 - Colorado Rockies - 25-29 over a two month span.
2007 - Boston Red Sox - 26-28 over a two month span.
I'm assuming you're going to call those four teams from the recent past bad teams, correct?
BOOM! Roasted.
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Funny, because those unbiased people also think the Cubs have a better team than the Brewers. Hell, even Ryan Braun knows the Cubs have a better team than the Brewers, but wadesworld will keep on saying they're bad.
Also to follow up on a separate issue, wadesworld.
Since the Cubs had a bad two months, and went 26-27 in the months of May & June, you have called them a bad team. You also followed up on my comment "So you're going on record saying that no team has ever had a bad two months? Are you sure?" with the above quote stating that any team that has a bad two months is a 'bad' team.
wadesworld, would you trade the Brewers season with any of the following teams from their respective years?
2005 - Houston Astros - 19-32 over a two month span.
2006 - St. Louis Cardinals - 49-59 over a four month span.
2007 - Colorado Rockies - 25-29 over a two month span.
2007 - Boston Red Sox - 26-28 over a two month span.
I'm assuming you're going to call those four teams from the recent past bad teams, correct?
Really? The Cubs were better than the Brewers for a 4 game series? Dang, we might as well stop playing our season. I didn't know the 1/2 season we've played and been 1 game up on the Cubs meant nothing, but just the 4 game series that we played at Wrigley this weekend. The Cubs are definitely better though, now that I know the criteria.
And wow, congratulations. You have 20/20 hindsight vision. So when the 2006 Cardinals were 49-59 you were predicting a World Series for them? Wow PTM, you're GOOD! I should listen to you all the time! Are you a betting man?! Maybe if you predicted the Cubs would win a World Series, they would!
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Wade,
If the brewers lose 2 of 3 to the cardinals...are you going to admit that there may be a problem?
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Wade,
If the brewers lose 2 of 3 to the cardinals...are you going to admit that there may be a problem?
Why would the crew have a problem? We can go under .500 for a full half season and not have a problem ::)
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Really? The Cubs were better than the Brewers for a 4 game series? Dang, we might as well stop playing our season. I didn't know the 1/2 season we've played and been 1 game up on the Cubs meant nothing, but just the 4 game series that we played at Wrigley this weekend. The Cubs are definitely better though, now that I know the criteria.
And wow, congratulations. You have 20/20 hindsight vision. So when the 2006 Cardinals were 49-59 you were predicting a World Series for them? Wow PTM, you're GOOD! I should listen to you all the time! Are you a betting man?! Maybe if you predicted the Cubs would win a World Series, they would!
Maybe you should just own up the fact that your baseball sense is little if not none. It's baseball, GOOD teams go through rough patches throughout the 162 game season. Maybe you should open up your eyes, stop trying to tell us how much the Cubs suck, so you can make yourself think that the Brewers have a better team.
After the 2006 Cardinals went 49-59, and if I were a fan of the Cardinals, I wouldn't have counted them out. No team should be counted out until the All-Star Break, it's a long season buddy.
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I'm confused... is it possible to say then also the Brewers are having their "bad 2 month" span right now just like the Cubs?
No?, yes?, no?
Last year Ryan Braun called out the team after being absolutely annihilated by the Red Sox, worked last year, hopefully the same response will happen.
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Maybe you should just own up the fact that your baseball sense is little if not none. It's baseball, GOOD teams go through rough patches throughout the 162 game season. Maybe you should open up your eyes, stop trying to tell us how much the Cubs suck, so you can make yourself think that the Brewers have a better team.
After the 2006 Cardinals went 49-59, and if I were a fan of the Cardinals, I wouldn't have counted them out. No team should be counted out until the All-Star Break, it's a long season buddy.
Unless they are the Washington Nationals, I counted them out after the first 2 weeks.
I agree, Wade gets a bit annoying after awhile. But I am still going to go with the opinion that this is a three team race... possibly four (with the Reds)... to make the claim that the Cubs have the best chance to win (like you did about 20 posts ago), and then back it up with the broad claims that I called you out on (and you made no response to that and moved on...roasted?) was bad on your part.
Hopefully this will make a fun August and September, that "forces" me to go to Miller Park often.
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Why would the crew have a problem? We can go under .500 for a full half season and not have a problem ::)
It's a problem because I can talk about the Cubs playing .500 ball in the past because they are only 2.5 games back. If the Brewers play .500 ball from here on out, do you think they are only 2.5 games behind before entering the last week of the season?
I'm confused... is it possible to say then also the Brewers are having their "bad 2 month" span right now just like the Cubs?
No?, yes?, no?
Last year Ryan Braun called out the team after being absolutely annihilated by the Red Sox, worked last year, hopefully the same response will happen.
You can definitely say that. It's the following thought of, "Will this team be better than this 2-month stretch for the rest of the season?" or "What caused this two-month period of suck?"
With the Cubs, I can point to Aramis being out and other little injuries. Hell, everyone knows that the Cubs suck at Wrigley until it warms up anyway.
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As a Brewer fan, this is how I see it. The Cubs are two games out despite having very little production from either corner outfielder or catcher and having their fourth hitter injured.
The chances of getting more production out of those positions is a lot greater than the Brewers turning around their starting pitching.
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I'm confused... is it possible to say then also the Brewers are having their "bad 2 month" span right now just like the Cubs?
No?, yes?, no?
Last year Ryan Braun called out the team after being absolutely annihilated by the Red Sox, worked last year, hopefully the same response will happen.
It worked? Did they win the division?
What worked was the acquistion of the guy who carried Milwaukee to the wild card. The Brewers are doomed to fail this year because their pitching staff sucks. That's why the Cubs are a better team. I don't understand how you don't understand that. It's why the Cubs are better than the Cardinals, Brewers, Reds and the rest of the division and why they are picked by everybody to win it.
I understand some Milwaukee fans don't like the Cubs, but claiming they "suck" is just ignorant unless you're ready to say the Brewers are even worse.
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Unless they are the Washington Nationals, I counted them out after the first 2 weeks.
I agree, Wade gets a bit annoying after awhile. But I am still going to go with the opinion that this is a three team race... possibly four (with the Reds)... to make the claim that the Cubs have the best chance to win (like you did about 20 posts ago), and then back it up with the broad claims that I called you out on (and you made no response to that and moved on...roasted?) was bad on your part.
Hopefully this will make a fun August and September, that "forces" me to go to Miller Park often.
Nationals. FACT.
I also think it's going to be a three-team race. I think the Cubs are looking pretty good to be the winner of that three team race because they played .500 baseball without their best hitter, with a myriad of bullpen problems,through several other injuries, and through crappy play from Soriano and Bradley.
With Aramis back and signs of bullpen stabilization the Cubs are going to be right in the mix. If Bradley and Soriano start playing to their career averages, then the Cubs will run away with the division as predicted.
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As a Brewer fan, this is how I see it. The Cubs are two games out despite having very little production from either corner outfielder or catcher and having their fourth hitter injured.
The chances of getting more production out of those positions is a lot greater than the Brewers turning around their starting pitching.
Nicely put.
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If the Brewers play .500 ball from here on out, do you think they are only 2.5 games behind before entering the last week of the season?
With how inconsistent and injury prone our division has been (Cubs, Cards and the Crew), I don't think that it's outrageous to believe that the 2nd half of the season may be just as bad as the 1st half. .500 may not keep the crew 2.5 back, but right now I'd be surprised if any team kicked in their after-burners and ran away with the division.
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PTM I'll admit right now that the Brewers are a bad team. Like I said to my friend from Chicago, the whole division is garbage, there's just going to be 1 team that is the best garbage and wins the division.
I did not know the Cubs were the only team in baseball (or at least just the division) that have gone through injuries. I forgot that Rickie Weeks was just being benched for a while. And Dave Bush just went on the DL for a breather.
I also forgot that Corey Hart is a career .249 hitter, JJ Hardy a career .229 hitter, Bill Hall a career .198 hitter, Mike Cameron a .248 hitter, and Jason Kendall a career .232 hitter. Not to go into the other offensive numbers because that might complicate things too much for you Cubs fans. One thing that I DO understand that Cubs fans don't seem to is that the last 2 players on this list are getting older, and people can't keep their production up for forever, so they probably won't raise their numbers as much. How are these stats rob?
I completely forgot that only the Cubs have injuries and players playing "well below their career averages," and that things will only even out for them. Ooops
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You guys have mentioned how inconsistent some of the Brewer hitters are, especially Hardy, Hart, Hall and Cameron. Well, another word for inconsistent is streaky. Since they are all far below their career averages for the first half, might we expect them all to get hot in the second half? If they do, and if the Brewers can add a good starter, and either Bush or Parra can come back to contribute like last year, then the Brewers will be right in it.
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Parra is like Rich Hill...a left that started to have mental problems...don't think parra will all of a sudden be a saving grace!
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PTM I'll admit right now that the Brewers are a bad team. Like I said to my friend from Chicago, the whole division is garbage, there's just going to be 1 team that is the best garbage and wins the division.
I did not know the Cubs were the only team in baseball (or at least just the division) that have gone through injuries. I forgot that Rickie Weeks was just being benched for a while. And Dave Bush just went on the DL for a breather.
I also forgot that Corey Hart is a career .249 hitter, JJ Hardy a career .229 hitter, Bill Hall a career .198 hitter, Mike Cameron a .248 hitter, and Jason Kendall a career .232 hitter. Not to go into the other offensive numbers because that might complicate things too much for you Cubs fans. One thing that I DO understand that Cubs fans don't seem to is that the last 2 players on this list are getting older, and people can't keep their production up for forever, so they probably won't raise their numbers as much. How are these stats rob?
I completely forgot that only the Cubs have injuries and players playing "well below their career averages," and that things will only even out for them. Ooops
I'm glad to see you can admit that. I, however, won't admit the Cubs are a bad team.
Hart, Hardy, Hall & Cameron are all career .250 hitters +/- .010. Kendall is better, but at the end of his career. Do you think that having Hart, Hardy Hall & Cameron all hit .010-.030 higher is going to be a saving grace?
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Bill Hall was a career .258 hitter through 2008. He needs to add 60 points to his current .198 to get there. Would that help, along with adding 10-20 points to all the other guys? Hell, yes.
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I'm glad to see you can admit that. I, however, won't admit the Cubs are a bad team.
Then how are the Brewers bad if they lose 2 out of 3 to the Cardinals? Even if the Cubs won all 3 games in that time, they're then 1 game up on the Brewers. So the difference between a good team and a bad team is 1 game? That's a pretty small difference if you ask me.
Hart, Hardy, Hall & Cameron are all career .250 hitters +/- .010. Kendall is better, but at the end of his career. Do you think that having Hart, Hardy Hall & Cameron all hit .010-.030 higher is going to be a saving grace?
Hart is a .272 career hitter. JJ Hardy is a career .264 hitter. Cameron .250 so you're right about that one. Kendall a career .291 hitter. Hall a career .253 hitter. That's a bit more than +/- .010 for all but 1 of them. And I don't think it will turn us from a bad team to a great team, but I think it'll be enough to stay right in the division race.
What do you expect from your Cubs playing "well below their career averages," a .060 or more jump? Well, good luck with that I guess. Like I said, I think it's ridiculous how only the Cubs are going to turn things around for their struggling players, but no other teams in the division will.
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I'm glad to see you can admit that. I, however, won't admit the Cubs are a bad team.
Hart, Hardy, Hall & Cameron are all career .250 hitters +/- .010. Kendall is better, but at the end of his career. Do you think that having Hart, Hardy Hall & Cameron all hit .010-.030 higher is going to be a saving grace?
hi, hitting isn't the problem in Milwaukee.
thanks.
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hi, hitting isn't the problem in Milwaukee.
thanks.
It isn't good... look at the Cubs series... besides the game they won... all under 2 runs a game, that doesn't win ballgames.
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Then how are the Brewers bad if they lose 2 out of 3 to the Cardinals? Even if the Cubs won all 3 games in that time, they're then 1 game up on the Brewers.
Hi wade,
You were answering my question...which you still haven't answered.
Your telling me that you aren't worried if you lose 6 of 7 to teams that are near the top of the division.
I bet you wish Ryan Braun shared your optimism. To quote slick Rick "Sabathia is not walking through those doors!"
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It isn't good... look at the Cubs series... besides the game they won... all under 2 runs a game, that doesn't win ballgames.
no. this is stupid. those are 3 games from all year.
the Brewers have 380 runs scored against them. THIS IS THE MOST IN THE CENTRAL.
the Brewers have 387 runs scored FOR them. THIS IS THE MOST IN THE CENTRAL
the Cubs have 330 runs scored against them. THIS IS THE LEAST IN THE CENTRAL.
the Cubs have 336 runs scored FOR them. THIS IS MIDDLE OF THE CENTRAL.
maybe bold will make this more clear. HITTING ISN'T THE PROBLEM, PITCHING IS.
If the pitchers had given up less runs they would be crushing the division at this point.... be real.
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What do you expect from your Cubs playing "well below their career averages," a .060 or more jump? Well, good luck with that I guess. Like I said, I think it's ridiculous how only the Cubs are going to turn things around for their struggling players, but no other teams in the division will.
I think the though here is that if everyone does turn it around brewers hitters, cubs hitters, etc and revert back to a statistical norm the cubs hitters ceilings are much higher than the brewers players ceilings you mentioned.
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Since some of you Brewer fans don't understand anything, I'll simplfy it.
Brewers Pitching: Bad
Brewers Offense: Good
Cubs Pitching: Good
Cubs Offense: Bad
Yes the Brewers struggled to score runs in the 3 losses to the Cubs but that's because they faced great pitching.
Even if the Brewers make a trade for a starter, that still leaves three bad starters for you guys.
The Cubs had two guys come back last night which COULD jump start the offense. In the last few weeks the offense has been heating up with the weather which is also a good sign.
I'll take the Cubs problems over the Brewers problems.
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Even if the Brewers make a trade for a starter, that still leaves three bad starters for you guys.
Gallardo, Looper, Suppan, Bush, Newguy.
Which three are bad?
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Name a newguy that you have heard that is on the market during the trade deadline.
I would take someone like lohse or Randy Wells over Looper or Bush. And Suppan, he just isn't that good
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On paper, without giving it much thought, it is easy to say. The Brewers hit the ball, and their pitching sucks. But look deeper, and it is not that simple TT and Hards.
Brewers have 39 losses this season,
~15 I would consider "blowout losses", 4 runs or more.
~18 of the losses were by 2 runs or less, and of those 18 a stunning 12 losses by 1 run.
~Remaining 6 losses were by 3 runs.
Obvioulsy not a true science, but the brew crew is 12-12 in 1 run games. That's not gotta cut it, yeah we can hit the ball a lot, but the timely hitting is where we need to vastly improve.
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Obvioulsy not a true science, but the brew crew is 12-12 in 1 run games. That's not gotta cut it, yeah we can hit the ball a lot, but the timely hitting is where we need to vastly improve.
+1
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Since some of you Brewer fans don't understand anything, I'll simplfy it.
Brewers Starting Pitching: Bad
Brewers bullpen: Good
Brewers Offense: Good
Cubs Starting Pitching: Good
Cubs Bullpen: Bad
Cubs Offense: Bad
Yes the Brewers struggled to score runs in the 3 losses to the Cubs but that's because they faced great pitching.
Yes the Brewers Cubs struggled to score runs in the 3 losses to the Cubs two of the 4 games against the Brewers but that's because they faced great average to above average pitching (according to you bad).
Even if the Brewers make a trade for a starter, that still leaves three bad 2 decent and 1 bad starters for you guys.
The Cubs had two guys come back last night which COULD jump start the offense. In the last few weeks the offense Derrik Lee has been heating up with the weather which is also a good sign.
I'll take the Cubs problems over the Brewers problems.
There. Got that all fixed up for you.
The Cubs roughed up 2 guys that will not be anywhere near the rotation in another week or so. Not saying the Brewers rotation will be as good as the Cubs, but if they add a guy, which I believe they will, the gap narrows considerably (Especially when Z flakes out every 4th start or so, and Harden goes back on the DL). McClung goes back to the bullpen, Burns goes back to Nashville, and the rotation is fairly solid, with Manny Parra potentially able to come back and provide an additional boost later in the season as well. I'm not thrilled with it, but it is probably not as bad as it appears.
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Name a newguy that you have heard that is on the market during the trade deadline.
I would take someone like lohse or Randy Wells over Looper or Bush. And Suppan, he just isn't that good
I have heard that Doug Davis is available, for example. Hopefully as some more teams drop out of contention more teams become sellers and we can get somebody better. Doug Davis is no CC, but he would strengthen the staff. Looper, Bush and Suppan are not superstars but they are not bad. With the Brewers offense, these type of pitchers can win games.
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I would be pretty happy with that if the Crew could get DD back in town. He's another lefty that can be productive at the tail end of the rotation. Looks like Halladay is being shopped. The price tag would probably be a bit high since the Crew will not want to part with one of their top prospects like they did with CC though.
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JJ Hardy could be tradeable since we have Escobar waiting in the wings. Corey Hart could also be had, but I suspect Melvin would only put him into a deal for a leadoff hitter (Juan Pierre?). Melvin does not want to trade Escobar or Gamel.
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JJ Hardy could be tradeable since we have Escobar waiting in the wings. Corey Hart could also be had, but I suspect Melvin would only put him into a deal for a leadoff hitter (Juan Pierre?). Melvin does not want to trade Escobar or Gamel.
I love that Escobar and Gamel are already premiere MLB players in your eyes.
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They are not already premeire players. I did not say that; I said that Melvin won't trade them now.
But they are valuable because they are inexpensive for the next 3-4 years and can start to contribute very soon. They also probably have much higher ceilings than the guys who started the season at short and 3rd (Hardy and Hall). They could both probably be plugged in to the current lineup and the team would still be contending (provided the starting pitching is stabilized).
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They are not already premeire players. I did not say that; I said that Melvin won't trade them now.
But they are valuable because they are inexpensive for the next 3-4 years and can start to contribute very soon. They also probably have much higher ceilings than the guys who started the season at short and 3rd (Hardy and Hall). They could both probably be plugged in to the current lineup and the team would still be contending (provided the starting pitching is stabilized).
This could not be more wrong. Hall and Hardy have much higher ceilings because they have performed at this level and been successful. Possibly more potential? Sure, but there are more potential failures than there are proven major leaguers.
When Gamel was plugged into the lineup eariler this year, how did that go? What about LaPorta with Cleveland, since he was the last hot-to-trot Brewers' minor leaguer.
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This could not be more wrong. Hall and Hardy have much higher ceilings because they have performed at this level and been successful. Possibly more potential? Sure, but there are more potential failures than there are proven major leaguers.
When Gamel was plugged into the lineup eariler this year, how did that go? What about LaPorta with Cleveland, since he was the last hot-to-trot Brewers' minor leaguer.
Do you even know what a ceiling is?? How could you say that Escobar and Gamel may have more potential but lower ceilings? You are contradicting yourself in the same statement!!
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Sure, but there are more potential failures than there are proven major leaguers.
Not where the Doug Melvin/Jack Z. led Brewers minor league system is concerned. Their hit:miss ratio of the past several years is off the charts, at least for position players. Very few of any minor league prospects they have touted to any degree have not panned out in the bigs.
When Gamel was plugged into the lineup eariler this year, how did that go?
Really? Is that a serious question? First off, he wasn't plugged into the line up. He has had a grand total of 93 ABs in sporadic duty over 2 months. I am not suggesting he has set the world on fire, but being a guy just up from AAA with very erratic playing time he managed to hit .247 w/2 HR and 12 RBI, and a .352 OBP. There is nothing to suggest that with regular AB's he will not put up numbers similar to what he did in the minor leagues.
As to why he hasn't had more ABs...could have something to do with the .315 avg, and .380 OBP Counsell and McGehee have combined to put up.
What about LaPorta with Cleveland, since he was the last hot-to-trot Brewers' minor leaguer.
I guess you answered your own question there.
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Do you even know what a ceiling is?? How could you say that Escobar and Gamel may have more potential but lower ceilings? You are contradicting yourself in the same statement!!
Escobar and Gamel may be great with loads of potential, but they no ceiling to compare to proven major league players. It's completely different ballgame where there are loads of potential in the minors and absolutely nothing when they get their cup of coffee.
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Escobar and Gamel may be great with loads of potential, but they no ceiling to compare to proven major league players.
What does that even mean? I'll ask again...do you even know what a ceiling is?
It's completely different ballgame where there are loads of potential in the minors and absolutely nothing when they get their cup of coffee.
I think Doug Melvin knows what he's doing. He's had a great track record with bringing minor league position players up with the Brewers. He know with these guys, it won't be a cup of coffee..it'll be more like a Starbucks' franchise.
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Escobar and Gamel may be great with loads of potential, but they no ceiling to compare to proven major league players. It's completely different ballgame where there are loads of potential in the minors and absolutely nothing when they get their cup of coffee.
Just to be clear, studs in the minor leagues have no ceiling but potential correct? So, essentially no college basketball players have ceilings either, because they have played a game in the NBA? Ricky Rubio has no ceiling because he played in Europe? Steven Strasburg has loads of talent, but no ceiling? Mel Kiper Jr. and Chad Ford don't use the term "ceiling" during their respective drafts, right?
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Hi wade,
You were answering my question...which you still haven't answered.
Your telling me that you aren't worried if you lose 6 of 7 to teams that are near the top of the division.
I bet you wish Ryan Braun shared your optimism. To quote slick Rick "Sabathia is not walking through those doors!"
What? I'm answering your question, yet I didn't answer your question? That makes no sense.
But if you must have the answer to that precise question, yes, I am telling you that if we lose 6 of 7 games to teams that are near the top of the division I will still not be worried. If the Cardinals sweep us that leaves us still only 4 games out of the division. Like I said, the whole division is garbage, it's just the best garbage is going to win. Why would I be scared of anyone when we're only 4 games back with half a season to play, and every team in the division has major flaws? Does that answer the question? Is it clear enough? I'm going to go ahead and guess that you Cubs fans will take out of this that I am saying we will win the division easily, but that is not what I'm saying at all. Like I said at the start of the year, I think the Cardinals will. But I am also not going to quit on this season because we went on a streak of 6 out of 7 losses to the Cubs and Cardinals. Clear?
Yup, the Brewers have flaws and Ryan Braun sees them. He's not the only one who sees them. I suppose the Cubs don't have flaws though. Yet they're still a game behind the Brewers. It's pretty weird how that works.
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You put it under an attack of PTM Wade...
So i was just pointing out, I was the one that asked the question, not PTM, so don't criticize him for something he didn't ask
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I'm surprised there are no Brewer fans here cheering Ryan Dempster's broken toe. You guys were all giddy about Aramis.
Also I didn't realize how PO'd Doug Melvin is at Ryan Braun for essentially crapping on his team.
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Also I didn't realize how PO'd Doug Melvin is at Ryan Braun for essentially crapping on his team.
...or just 2 replacement starting pitchers?
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Brew City and reinko,
What is meant is that you cannot compare a minor leaguer to a major leaguer. To say that a minor leaguer is already better than Bill Hall or JJ Hardy could not be more of an incorrect statement. To say that a minor leaguer has a higher ceiling (meaning his best game will be better than anothers) before he has even stepped in the MLB diamond is just stupid. Baseball unlike any other sport is more of a crapshot regarding prospects than any other sport.
Sure, Melvin has had a decent recent streak of success, so have another general managers. Those same GMs have been wrong, as Melvin has also been wrong, if he was the best GM to ever scout players do you think he'd be in Arlington for all those years? Or even be interested in the Brewers if he was the best talent scout ever? Let's get real here.
Take a look at the lists of top prospects from the last 10 years, you'll see plenty of names that never panned out. Just like Escobar and Gamel might not pan out. Just like the NEXT BIG BREWER BOPPER that everyone wanted to trade Prince away for because he was so good, Matt LaPorta.
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If the brewers lose 2 of 3 to the cardinals...are you going to admit that there may be a problem?
The Cardinals are 2-4 against the Brewers this season...do the Cardinals have a problem? They lost 7 of 9 to the Reds, Pirates and Brewers...did they have a problem? The Cubs lost 8 in a row at one point, and later lost 7 of 9? Do they have a problem?
Its a long season, and the number that matters is the one under the W after 162 games.
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if he was the best GM to ever scout players do you think he'd be in Arlington for all those years? Or even be interested in the Brewers if he was the best talent scout ever? Let's get real here.
I'm curious who ever said that.
Just like the NEXT BIG BREWER BOPPER that everyone wanted to trade Prince away for because he was so good, Matt LaPorta.
Yet the Brewers traded him away...Hmmmm. Still, in your odd little baseball world, he hasn't panned out because he hasn't hit in his whopping 42 MLB ABs. Lets get real here indeed.
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To say that a minor leaguer is already better than Bill Hall or JJ Hardy could not be more of an incorrect statement.
Who ever said that? Nobody said or even insinuated "already better".
Melvin thinks that Escobar can replace Hardy at short and Gamel can replace Hall at third. He is more willing to trade these established players, who probably have higher trade value, than the up-and-coming studs who he believes can eventually become better than Hall and Hardy.
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Melvin thinks that Escobar can replace Hardy at short and Gamel can replace Hall at third. He is more willing to trade these established players, who probably have higher trade value, than the up-and-coming studs who he believes can eventually become better than Hall and Hardy.
You had me up until you started taking about trade value. Bill Hall has no trade value. In fact his trade value is negative. Hardy probably has some, but certainly not higher than Gamel or Escobar. To a contending team, sure, but in general, no, and few if any contending teams are going to be willing to part with pitching, so that sort of eliminates Hardy's value to those teams.
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Who ever said that? Nobody said or even insinuated "already better".
Melvin thinks that Escobar can replace Hardy at short and Gamel can replace Hall at third. He is more willing to trade these established players, who probably have higher trade value, than the up-and-coming studs who he believes can eventually become better than Hall and Hardy.
So Melvin will trade Hall and/or Hardy in the middle of a division race, and be perfectly fine with plugging in Escobar & Gamel?
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Gallardo, Looper, Suppan, Bush, Newguy.
Which three are bad?
Suppan, Bush, and Looper.
Bad.
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You had me up until you started taking about trade value. Bill Hall has no trade value. In fact his trade value is negative. Hardy probably has some, but certainly not higher than Gamel or Escobar. To a contending team, sure, but in general, no, and few if any contending teams are going to be willing to part with pitching, so that sort of eliminates Hardy's value to those teams.
You are correct--Hall is untradeable at this point. We're stuck with him. I mis"spoke" on that one. Hardy and Hart would have some pretty good value on the trade market and I'm pretty sure that Melvin would trade either or both of them if he could get a good starting pitcher (both if the Newguy is good enough and under contract beyond this year).
Some teams, such as Atlanta, may want a guy like Hardy and can probably spare some pitching. It is a tough time to try and make a deal since the teams who have available pitching are really limited. Toronto is now listening to proposed deals for Halladay. He would be a race changer.
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Suppan, Bush, and Looper.
Bad.
With the Brewers' offense, those are all we need to win games. If we had one more guy like SuppanBushLooper to add to Gallardo, we can probably win the division with our hitting.
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So Melvin will trade Hall and/or Hardy in the middle of a division race, and be perfectly fine with plugging in Escobar & Gamel?
If Doug Melvin could trade Bill Hall for anyone not named Alfonso Sorian or Vernon wells, I assure he would do it.
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lets be honest here.
Escobar is one of THE top prospects in the minors... he is going to be a good player. write it down, stamp it, mail it in.
Gamel will be a pretty good slugger. Watch him at the plate, he has the poise of a guy who has been in the league for years.
As for the Brewers pitching, we have Gallardo. thats is. To say we have starting pitching behind him is at best wishful thinking.
I am a realist. Are they serviceable? yes. are they a couple of 4th and 5th starters trying to fill in as 2s and 3s? absolutely.
As for the Braun comment, there has been nothing but support for his comment in the Milwaukee and Madison media since he said it. It is truth and that is why they aren't ripping him. Melvin and every Brewer fan knew that we NEEDED pitching in the offseason, and we got Hoffman and Looper. Now, Hoffman, I couldn't be more pleased with. Looper... I just figured we were signing another Cardinals pitcher who was a member of a completely mediocre pitching staff. Why sign another Suppan type player. I am sick and tired of all command pitchers because when the wheels come off they just fall right off.
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I would say Looper has been exactly what they were hoping for, maybe more - a guy to eat innings and give you a chance. I truly don't think they viewed him as anything more than that.
Parra was the key going into the season, and that hasn't changed. Had he piteched like the number 2-3 type starter they were hoping for, the rotation would be just fine. He hasn't, so more is expected of everyone else...more than they are capable of. The problems were obviously compounded recently by Bush's injury.
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If Doug Melvin could trade Bill Hall for anyone not named Alfonso Sorian or Vernon wells, I assure he would do it.
If taking on salary wasnt an issue, any GM in the big leagues would trade Bill Hall to get Alfonso Soriano straight up. Even Doug Melvin.
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If taking on salary wasnt an issue, any GM in the big leagues would trade Bill Hall to get Alfonso Soriano straight up. Even Doug Melvin.
(http://www.blogacause.com/blogacause/resources/actanonverba/captainobvious.jpg)
Of course he would, but that was the point. The same thing that makes Alfonso Soriano (and Vernon Wells) untradeable, is what makes Bill Hall untradeable...Stupid contracts that never should have been given. Those guys have very negative trade value.
Not sure how closely you follow baseball, but salary is an issue which is why he would trade Bill Hall for just about anybody but those guys.
If you want to bolster your pitching staff, call Toronto and ask for Roy Hallady in exchange for taking on Vernon Wells contract. I assure you they would listen, and it likely wouldn't cost you much more than that. Of course your payroll will be completely hamstrung with an OFer that can't hit for the next 5 years, but what the heck.
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lets be honest here.
Escobar is one of THE top prospects in the minors... he is going to be a good player. write it down, stamp it, mail it in.
Gamel will be a pretty good slugger. Watch him at the plate, he has the poise of a guy who has been in the league for years.
As for the Brewers pitching, we have Gallardo. thats is. To say we have starting pitching behind him is at best wishful thinking.
Did you see this article on the best Brewers pitching prospects?
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/49209902.html
They are almost all at the Class A level at this point. A couple in AA that could be here by 2010. In my opinion, the Brewers almost have to trade to get some pitching if they expect to be competitive at all in the next couple of years. At this point, I would even consider throwing some money at Pedro Martinez, who apparently wants more than a one year deal.
Standing still is a pretty bleak option at this point.
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Did you see this article on the best Brewers pitching prospects?
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/49209902.html
They are almost all at the Class A level at this point. A couple in AA that could be here by 2010. In my opinion, the Brewers almost have to trade to get some pitching if they expect to be competitive at all in the next couple of years. At this point, I would even consider throwing some money at Pedro Martinez, who apparently wants more than a one year deal.
Standing still is a pretty bleak option at this point.
I bet you one or two of those prospects even get a sniff at the starting rotation come 2010-whenever.
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Did you see this article on the best Brewers pitching prospects?
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/49209902.html
They are almost all at the Class A level at this point. A couple in AA that could be here by 2010. In my opinion, the Brewers almost have to trade to get some pitching if they expect to be competitive at all in the next couple of years. At this point, I would even consider throwing some money at Pedro Martinez, who apparently wants more than a one year deal.
Standing still is a pretty bleak option at this point.
I know, its great and all have good hitters, and Scott Z gets props for that, but he gets a big F for not drafting any pitching prospects.
and pitching wins... it doesn't put butts in the seats like home runs do, but it WINS.
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I know, its great and all have good hitters, and Scott Z gets props for that, but he gets a big F for not drafting any pitching prospects.
and pitching wins... it doesn't put butts in the seats like home runs do, but it WINS.
As a Brewer fan to all Brewer fans:
Why mortgage the future (Salome/Gamel/Escobar combo trade, what have you) for a deal like CC last year (that will NOT happen again this year) for a shot at a first round exit in the playoffs?
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We should bring back Sheets and Gagne.
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As a Brewer fan to all Brewer fans:
Why mortgage the future (Salome/Gamel/Escobar combo trade, what have you) for a deal like CC last year (that will NOT happen again this year) for a shot at a first round exit in the playoffs?
That is EXACTLY why Melvin will not trade Escobar or Gamel. I think he was less reluctant last year to deal LaPorta only because LaPorta is one of those all-or-nothing swingers that we already have too many of. If we see a deal this year, I expect to see us trading someone like Hardy or Hart rather than one or two of our top prospects. We need to get to the point where we have 3 top starters (not 1) if we're gonna go all the way. That's not gonna happen this year.
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I'm surprised there are no Brewer fans here cheering Ryan Dempster's broken toe. You guys were all giddy about Aramis.
I think Deadspin did a good enough job.
http://deadspin.com/5310189/young-cubs-fan-mocks-ryan-dempsters-pain
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I think Deadspin did a good enough job.
http://deadspin.com/5310189/young-cubs-fan-mocks-ryan-dempsters-pain
lol... wow:
"The subtle interplay of comedy and tragedy is what defines the Cub Nation's futile existence as they seek to find humor in their plight, lest the reality of their struggle reduce them to bitter tears."
owned
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As a Brewer fan to all Brewer fans:
Why mortgage the future (Salome/Gamel/Escobar combo trade, what have you) for a deal like CC last year (that will NOT happen again this year) for a shot at a first round exit in the playoffs?
the problem is that there is only a small window where we can afford the players we have signed on our roster. Prince will be getting a huge contract from someone in a few years, and guys like Hardy and Hart will probably go looking for more money than they are currently getting. We aren't the Cubs, Yankees or Sawks, so we are stuck developing talent and have to hope to make a run every 5 years or so when we have a lot of the pieces of the puzzle. If you are looking for an example of a club that Milwaukee should aspire to be, it is the Minnesota Twins.
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As a Brewer fan to all Brewer fans:
Why mortgage the future (Salome/Gamel/Escobar combo trade, what have you) for a deal like CC last year (that will NOT happen again this year) for a shot at a first round exit in the playoffs?
Baseball is about getting in to the playoffs. Plenty of wildcard teams have gotten hot near the end of the year and used the momentum to get all the way to the WS. The Rockies are a good example.
If LaPorta turns out to be an all star, I will still say the CC trade was worthwhile. Getting into the playoffs was important for an organization that had never been there, and with Sheets on the last year of his contract, they had to make the move. Yes, they didn't win once they got there, but they at least made a run for it.
The problem is that they just don't have the talent within the organization to make it work. They either have to trade or sign a FA next year.
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Baseball is about getting in to the playoffs. Plenty of wildcard teams have gotten hot near the end of the year and used the momentum to get all the way to the WS. The Rockies are a good example.
If LaPorta turns out to be an all star, I will still say the CC trade was worthwhile. Getting into the playoffs was important for an organization that had never been there, and with Sheets on the last year of his contract, they had to make the move. Yes, they didn't win once they got there, but they at least made a run for it.
The problem is that they just don't have the talent within the organization to make it work. They either have to trade or sign a FA next year.
So you don't think Crean's boy will be the future ace of the Brewers???
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Yeah, he probably will...but by that time Gallardo could very well be gone.
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I'm actually cheering for the Brewers in this series with St. Louis. I fear the Cards more than the Brew Crew.
Please destroy their bullpen for their upcoming series with the Cubs this weekend.
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I'm actually cheering for the Brewers in this series with St. Louis. I fear the Cards more than the Brew Crew.
Please destroy their bullpen for their upcoming series with the Cubs this weekend.
I'm really happy to hear that
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Well, although we couldn't help Cub fans out today, at least Manny Parra looked like a major league pitcher today!
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What the brewers don't/shouldn't do is throw away soon to be big leaguers on a player that could get us into the playoffs. Don't think I'm jumping off the band wagon here, I consider myself more of a realist, but I think the odds of making the playoffs are pretty low, but making a move now could hurt us more in the long run. I think we stay competitve this year and then look to next. I think trading Prince this off season is a worthwhile deal. For a team to get a DH/1st baseman like him could be enough to put them over the top and in turn the brewers could savage the AAA pitching of that team. JJ is going to move to third and that way escobar can play SS and Gamel to 1st. McGehee (or bill hall?) would be viable utility player. I am ok with the brewers trying to trade Hardy or Hart however.
Lets not forget that the brewers have more than Escobar and Solome in their AAA program that could move up or be used to trade with the above mentioned. and we have an amazing pitcher in Jeremy Jeffress if he would stop hanging out with Mo Acker. Brett Lawrie suppliment the infield at 2b, same goes for Taylor Green. (hypothetically we could get rid of JJ and Price with those two) Jonathon Lucroy can catch. Lorenzo Cain could play Center but if we need him sooner Corey Hart could leave and we may improve on that position, though a lot of this depends on when these players are ready. and when cameron leaves Cole Gillespie can play OF too There are more guys down in the lower minors that it's too early to say but could come up within 2 years like Cutter Dykstra, Cody Scarpetta, Zach Braddock.
The brewers have a pretty stacked AA team and on down, so the players we have now (hart, hardy prince)could easily be traded for ready to go AAA pitchers and we'd still have a great lineup.
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Hahahaha you Brewer fans are hilarious.
Aside from Gamel and Escobar sounds like a big pile of bad to me. They will fit well with Suppan, Bush, and Looper.
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Hahahaha you Brewer fans are hilarious.
Aside from Gamel and Escobar sounds like a big pile of bad to me. They will fit well with Suppan, Bush, and Looper.
You know what is the funniest part of it all? The Brewers, despite such TERRIBLE pitching, right TT? are ahead of the Cubs! HAHA! Imagine that!
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You know what is the funniest part of it all? The Brewers, despite such TERRIBLE pitching, right TT? are ahead of the Cubs! HAHA! Imagine that!
Yeah, but... err... Aramis was hurt!!! And, and... there's all these guys hitting well below their career averages! Oh, and then there's Kevin Gregg...
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Brew City and reinko,
What is meant is that you cannot compare a minor leaguer to a major leaguer. To say that a minor leaguer is already better than Bill Hall or JJ Hardy could not be more of an incorrect statement. To say that a minor leaguer has a higher ceiling (meaning his best game will be better than anothers) before he has even stepped in the MLB diamond is just stupid. Baseball unlike any other sport is more of a crapshot regarding prospects than any other sport.
Sure, Melvin has had a decent recent streak of success, so have another general managers. Those same GMs have been wrong, as Melvin has also been wrong, if he was the best GM to ever scout players do you think he'd be in Arlington for all those years? Or even be interested in the Brewers if he was the best talent scout ever? Let's get real here.
Take a look at the lists of top prospects from the last 10 years, you'll see plenty of names that never panned out. Just like Escobar and Gamel might not pan out. Just like the NEXT BIG BREWER BOPPER that everyone wanted to trade Prince away for because he was so good, Matt LaPorta.
So you don't think Jake Fox has a higher "ceiling" than anyone else on the Cubs' big-league roster?
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Hahahaha you Brewer fans are hilarious.
Aside from Gamel and Escobar sounds like a big pile of bad to me. They will fit well with Suppan, Bush, and Looper.
Do you have a job or do you just watch the Brewers farm teams all the time to make a comment like that?
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So you don't think Jake Fox has a higher "ceiling" than anyone else on the Cubs' big-league roster?
Absolutely not. Jake Fox's ceiling in nowhere near what DLee, Aramis, Soriano & Bradley have been.
Personally, Jake Fox is an alright player. He swings really hard, but he'll never be an all-star.
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Do you have a job or do you just watch the Brewers farm teams all the time to make a comment like that?
I doubt he does, but it doesn't take much to have read a couple top 100 prospects lists to know. I also assume that TT34 isn't a delusion Brewer fan that believes every team in the minor leagues will someday be the Brewers lineup.
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Absolutely not. Jake Fox's ceiling in nowhere near what DLee, Aramis, Soriano & Bradley have been.
Personally, Jake Fox is an alright player. He swings really hard, but he'll never be an all-star.
So a rookie will likely never be as good as four All-Stars? Quite a leap. Go back to my original question, where I asked if you thought Jake Fox would never be as good as anyone on the Cubs big league roster. You countered with players who (at least at one point in their careers) have been all stars, but for the convenience of your argument, you ignored players like Andres Blanco, Jeff Baker, Koyie Hill, and Micah Hoffpauir. There is no way you can tell me with a straight face that a Jake Fox or a Sam Fuld will NEVER be as good or better than these guys.
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So a rookie will likely never be as good as four All-Stars? Quite a leap. Go back to my original question, where I asked if you thought Jake Fox would never be as good as anyone on the Cubs big league roster. You countered with players who (at least at one point in their careers) have been all stars, but for the convenience of your argument, you ignored players like Andres Blanco, Jeff Baker, Koyie Hill, and Micah Hoffpauir. There is no way you can tell me with a straight face that a Jake Fox or a Sam Fuld will NEVER be as good or better than these guys.
You asked about Jake Fox. Jake Fox can play 3B, 1B & the outfield corners. Who did I compare him to then?
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This is what you Brewer fans don't understand. You have to be realistic about your players in your farm system.
Your argument is equivalent to me bragging about Jake Fox, Micah Hoffpauir, Sam Fuld, Josh Vitters, etc. These guys have played great but that doesn't mean they are going to be good players. You guys need to be realistic. You have all of your farm system getting called up to the show.
Jake Fox has came up and played out of his mind. Could he be better than DLee someday? Possible but not likely at all.
Josh Vitters is considered the top prospect for the Cubs and better than most of the guys you named in your A and AA clubs. But he is unproven. He hasn't played himself past AA. He is just as likely to flake out as he is to make it to the bigs. Prospects flake out all the time.
Be realistic and dont schedule a guy in A ball to be on your team by next year.
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Also I posted this in this other thread but this system will show how well Ryan Braun gets to balls. And before you make a Soriano comment I don't claim that Soriano is a good fielder.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15101.0 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15101.0)
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You asked about Jake Fox. Jake Fox can play 3B, 1B & the outfield corners. Who did I compare him to then?
To the players he mentioned in his most recent post? So you can only compare players that play the same position now? So I can't say that Ryan Braun is better than Jason Kendall because one is a left fielder and the other is a catcher? That's news to me.
This is what you Brewer fans don't understand. You have to be realistic about your players in your farm system.
Your argument is equivalent to me bragging about Jake Fox, Micah Hoffpauir, Sam Fuld, Josh Vitters, etc. These guys have played great but that doesn't mean they are going to be good players. You guys need to be realistic. You have all of your farm system getting called up to the show.
Jake Fox has came up and played out of his mind. Could he be better than DLee someday? Possible but not likely at all.
Josh Vitters is considered the top prospect for the Cubs and better than most of the guys you named in your A and AA clubs. But he is unproven. He hasn't played himself past AA. He is just as likely to flake out as he is to make it to the bigs. Prospects flake out all the time.
Be realistic and dont schedule a guy in A ball to be on your team by next year.
I like how you're clumping all Brewer fans into a category based on what 1 person is arguing. I'm pretty sure most of the Brewers fan arguing on this topic are saying that top prospects have more potential (and thus a higher ceiling) than MLB players who are proven to not be very good players. Could these players with potential be busts? Absolutely. But does that mean that right now they do not have potential, and a high ceiling? Absolutely not. Not every player reaches their ceiling, just so you know.
All I argued is that you seem to like to make fun of how TERRIBLE Brewers pitching is, and your team is still 1 1/2 games behind the Brewers in the standings more than 1/2 way into the season. And yet none of you "are willing to admit" you have a bad team. It's really quite comical.
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Also I posted this in this other thread but this system will show how well Ryan Braun gets to balls. And before you make a Soriano comment I don't claim that Soriano is a good fielder.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15101.0 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15101.0)
Are you saying this shows how bad he is at getting to them? Because I personally do not see a word about Ryan Braun in there...
...and talk about an obsession. That argument has been dead for quite a while. Now you bring this up as though it is fact with absolutely no mention of him.
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Also I posted this in this other thread but this system will show how well Ryan Braun gets to balls. And before you make a Soriano comment I don't claim that Soriano is a good fielder.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15101.0 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15101.0)
That will be really sweet. I love looking at all the sabermetric type of stuff and this will for sure give a ton of new stats.
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That will be really sweet. I love looking at all the sabermetric type of stuff and this will for sure give a ton of new stats.
This really will be great. This will also give an indication of the difficulty of ballpark layouts.
To the players he mentioned in his most recent post? So you can only compare players that play the same position now? So I can't say that Ryan Braun is better than Jason Kendall because one is a left fielder and the other is a catcher? That's news to me.
Really? Why would you compare a catcher to an outfielder? Baseball is an offensive and defensive game right? So if we were looking at the potential of player, why ignore one half of the game?
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Really? Why would you compare a catcher to an outfielder? Baseball is an offensive and defensive game right? So if we were looking at the potential of player, why ignore one half of the game
So you can't say some first baseman is bad at defense and bad at offense and that some center fielder is great at defense and good at offense and conclude that the center fielder is a better player? You're really telling me that you can't compare players in different positions?
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And yet none of you "are willing to admit" you have a bad team. It's really quite comical.
Are you kidding me? Cubs fans are pissed at how crappy the Cubs are this year.
Just because we say your team sucks (fact) it doesnt mean we don't think our team sucks as well.
I like our bad teams chances over your bad team. Your bad team has no pitching.
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Also GM's arent going to want your A and AA prospects. They want proven guys liek Gordon Beckham for the White Sox.
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So you can't say some first baseman is bad at defense and bad at offense and that some center fielder is great at defense and good at offense and conclude that the center fielder is a better player? You're really telling me that you can't compare players in different positions?
Sure, if you want to. I don't think it's fair when other positions are much more difficult to play.
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Geovany Soto may be out for 30 days. I wonder if he'll light anything up with all that time to kill.
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You asked about Jake Fox. Jake Fox can play 3B, 1B & the outfield corners. Who did I compare him to then?
I did ask about Jake Fox. I also asked about whether or not you thought he could one day, possibly, just maybe, be better than ANY ONE player on the Cubs roster. I made no stipulation on position. You came back with position-specific players who have been All-Stars. Apples:Oranges. Easy to make an argument when you don't play by the rules (of basic logic).
I completely agree with wadesworld that you can absolutely compare players who play different positions. Let's compare Bill Hall (3B) and Ryan Braun (LF).
Without getting into stats, let's compare these two:
-Defensively, it's probably a push, with Hall maybe getting a slight edge.
-Offensively, Braun is CLEARLY the better player. So much so that anyone who knows anything about baseball would tell you that Ryan Braun is a better BASEBALL PLAYER than Bill Hall.
Is that an adequate comparison of 2 players at different positions?
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I'm glad to see you can admit that. I, however, won't admit the Cubs are a bad team.
TT, I'm just curious, but what does this mean from PTM then, if the Cubs fans are willing to admit that they have a bad team?
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Right because 100% of every fandom agrees on everything wadesworld.
I do believe right now we are bad. I do believe we have the best shot of getting better though.
It's all opinion. I think Rocky VI is the best while PTM thinks Rocky I is.
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Right because 100% of every fandom agrees on everything wadesworld.
I do believe right now we are bad. I do believe we have the best shot of getting better though.
It's all opinion. I think Rocky VI is the best while PTM thinks Rocky I is.
I'm pretty sure you think Rocky IV is the best. No way you think Mason "The Line" Dixon was a worthy opponet. Plus, there was no robot.
If Aramis fails to return to his post-injury stats, this Cubs team is not good.
IAM, I understand what you are saying. LF and 3B are both positions where weaker defensive players are hidden.
Anyways, let's take Josh Vitters from the Cubs. He's a top 50 prospect, but until he actually plays in the MLB, I'm not ready to say he can be better than anyone. Its such a mental and physical hurdle that prospects are more likely to fail then be the players they are slotted to be.
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Are you kidding me? Cubs fans are pissed at how crappy the Cubs are this year.
Just because we say your team sucks (fact) it doesnt mean we don't think our team sucks as well.
I like our bad teams chances over your bad team. Your bad team has no pitching.
Right because 100% of every fandom agrees on everything wadesworld.
I do believe right now we are bad. I do believe we have the best shot of getting better though.
It's all opinion. I think Rocky VI is the best while PTM thinks Rocky I is.
So first, when I ask how the Cubs "fandom" think the Brewers are bad but say the Cubs are not, despite being a game and a half behind the Brewers in the standings, the Cubs "fandom" do, in fact, think the Cubs are bad, just not as bad as the Brewers (again, despite being a game and a half behind them in the standings). Then, after a quote of one of these fans stating otherwise, I am the one at fault for generalizing all Cubs fans, despite you, yourself, doing just that in the previous post. Typical Cubs logic.
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1st no hitter of the season thrown tonight...
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Geovany Soto may be out for 30 days. I wonder if he'll light anything up with all that time to kill.
Why do Brewers fans care so much about Soto smoking pot when one of their top pitching prospects has failed THREE drug tests. People in glass houses . . .
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Why do Brewers fans care so much about Soto smoking pot when they have one of their top pitching prospects has failed THREE drug tests. People in glass houses . . .
I was really hoping Ari didn't bring up Jeffries. He's one failed test away from never playing another game professionally again. As much potential as he has, it doesn't mean a thing if he throws it all away.
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I'm pretty sure you think Rocky IV is the best. No way you think Mason "The Line" Dixon was a worthy opponet. Plus, there was no robot.
If Aramis fails to return to his post-injury stats, this Cubs team is not good.
IAM, I understand what you are saying. LF and 3B are both positions where weaker defensive players are hidden.
Anyways, let's take Josh Vitters from the Cubs. He's a top 50 prospect, but until he actually plays in the MLB, I'm not ready to say he can be better than anyone. Its such a mental and physical hurdle that prospects are more likely to fail then be the players they are slotted to be.
Fair enough.
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PTM is right. I meant Rocky IV not VI.
Also here are some gem pictures I took from the bleachers at Miller Park on Saturday:
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/IMG_0600.jpg)
$200 spent on an authentic jersey that says drunk. Great purchase dumbass. Also another guy still has the tag on his hat.
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/IMG_0603.jpg)
Don't even understand this.
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PTM is right. I meant Rocky IV not VI.
Also here are some gem pictures I took from the bleachers at Miller Park on Saturday:
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/IMG_0600.jpg)
$200 spent on an authentic jersey that says drunk. Great purchase dumbass. Also another guy still has the tag on his hat.
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/IMG_0603.jpg)
Don't even understand this.
Haha that is pretty ridiculous. Not to support his purchase at all, but I don't think that is authentic. Can't tell for sure but I don't see the MLB logo on the top of the back part of the jersey (like the guy to his left with the long sleeve shirt). That's usually how you can tell a jersey is authentic. So it was probably $150 (with the personalization).
On another note, one thing I would hope Cubs and Brewers fans can agree on is how damn ugly the Cardinals mustaches are. They're doing this in the middle of the season while in first place in the division. Also I would like to see some pictures of Pujols early in his career. There is no way anybody can convince me that he has not been on steroids. I would almost go as far as to say he was on them within the last year. And the fact that he has talked about how "disrespectful" to the game Brewers fans are for untucking their jerseys and WATCHING THEIR HOMERUNS...I've never seen anybody do it as often and as badly as he does!
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On another note, one thing I would hope Cubs and Brewers fans can agree on is how damn ugly the Cardinals mustaches are.
+1
It's a cold day in hell!
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Also I would like to see some pictures of Pujols early in his career. There is no way anybody can convince me that he has not been on steroids. I would almost go as far as to say he was on them within the last year.
How about a rookie baseball card?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/rosschrisman2003/Blog/pujolsspxrc.jpg)
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I'm not pleased with Frank Catalanotto. He was using the 80's song "Your Love" by The Outfield as his entrance music this weekend.
While it is an awesome song it is also the song Gordon Beckham started using when he got called up a month ago. He uses it because he used it his entire career at Georgia.
Frank is just a giant copy cat. Typical Brewers. I also saw the Brewers fans now throw back vistor homeruns. Wonder where you got that idea?
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How about a rookie baseball card?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/rosschrisman2003/Blog/pujolsspxrc.jpg)
I basically figure that Pujols wakes up in the morning and eats orphan fetuses.
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Typical Brewers. I also saw the Brewers fans now throw back vistor homeruns. Wonder where you got that idea?
I bet there are a lot of sore shoulders after their weekend set with the Dodgers. ;)
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I basically figure that Pujols wakes up in the morning and eats orphan fetuses babies.
Fixed. Pujols makes big bucks, he can afford to eat actual human children.
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PTM is right. I meant Rocky IV not VI.
Also here are some gem pictures I took from the bleachers at Miller Park on Saturday:
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/IMG_0600.jpg)
$200 spent on an authentic jersey that says drunk. Great purchase dumbass.
Maybe "Drunk" is his last name.
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I'm not pleased with Frank Catalanotto. He was using the 80's song "Your Love" by The Outfield as his entrance music this weekend.
While it is an awesome song it is also the song Gordon Beckham started using when he got called up a month ago. He uses it because he used it his entire career at Georgia.
Frank is just a giant copy cat. Typical Brewers. I also saw the Brewers fans now throw back vistor homeruns. Wonder where you got that idea?
Uhh...is this post 1 big joke? So Frank Catalanotto, the 35 year old who has been in the MLB since Gordon Beckham was 11 YEARS OLD, decided that he wanted to copy a rookie despite not having played at the Cell in his only league in the majors, meaning having never heard his walkup music. That is what you are saying right now? Think about that. There is a TWELVE year difference between the two. You really think they crossed paths before this year, and Frank heard his walkup music and was so impressed by the guy that he copied his walkup music? Come on TT, even you're better than that!
And really?! The Cubs fans are the only ones who throw homerun balls back?! Wow!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErJm9IQkXFE
I suppose the Phillies are just copying the Cubs too.
Unreal.
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PTM is right. I meant Rocky IV not VI.
Also here are some gem pictures I took from the bleachers at Miller Park on Saturday:
(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff173/TallTitan34/IMG_0600.jpg)
Also another guy still has the tag on his hat.
Maybe he is just a fan of the 90's hip hop sensation, Kriss Kross?
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What's with the dude in the bird costume?
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Uhh...is this post 1 big joke? So Frank Catalanotto, the 35 year old who has been in the MLB since Gordon Beckham was 11 YEARS OLD, decided that he wanted to copy a rookie despite not having played at the Cell in his only league in the majors, meaning having never heard his walkup music. That is what you are saying right now? Think about that. There is a TWELVE year difference between the two. You really think they crossed paths before this year, and Frank heard his walkup music and was so impressed by the guy that he copied his walkup music? Come on TT, even you're better than that!
Yes, this was one of those statements just to start stuff. Similar to posting the picture of the back of Miller Park or asking why there are two 1982 pennants in the stadium. But I do think he copied it. What are the odds two guys would pick the same obscure 80's song?
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Yes, this was one of those statements just to start stuff. Similar to posting the picture of the back of Miller Park or asking why there are two 1982 pennants in the stadium. But I do think he copied it. What are the odds two guys would pick the same obscure 80's song?
I don't know. I will say at least Frank was old enough to appreciate music when this song came out, and it's a pretty popular song, so I really don't understand where you would get the idea that he copied a rookie who there is no reason he has heard his walkup music. The only time he would have played Beckham is when Beckham was playing at Miller Park, as a visitor (so no walkup music). When would he hear his music in order for him to copy it? Just makes no sense to me.
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I don't know. I will say at least Frank was old enough to appreciate music when this song came out, and it's a pretty popular song, so I really don't understand where you would get the idea that he copied a rookie who there is no reason he has heard his walkup music. The only time he would have played Beckham is when Beckham was playing at Miller Park, as a visitor (so no walkup music). When would he hear his music in order for him to copy it? Just makes no sense to me.
BUt wades, it's a pissing match, not everything needs to make sense.
BTW, have you heard the rumor about Zambrano was caught raping his neighbors dog in a park in Winnetka! I'm just saying I heard it.
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BUt wades, it's a pissing match, not everything needs to make sense.
BTW, have you heard the rumor about Zambrano was caught raping his neighbors dog in a park in Winnetka! I'm just saying I heard it.
Zambrano does not live in Winnetka.
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Zambrano does not live in Winnetka.
I don't see what this has to do with anything.
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I don't see what this has to do with anything.
Exactly.
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If it hasn't already... I think this page solidifies that this thread has "jumped the shark"....
The last few pages of this thread have made my head hurt.
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Dog rapists rarely commit their acts in the towns where they live. They usually nab the beasts, put them in the trunks of their cars, and transport them to a secluded outpost where they can bang away in relative peace and quiet. Except for the yelping.
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I have referred this post to the ASPCA (http://www.aspca.org/). Have fun trying to explain to the animal police why dog rape is funny.
Good news: You'll probably end up on Animal Planet
Bad news: You'll be labled a 'Dog Rape Proponent' on your Grandma's favorite show
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I have referred this post to the ASPCA (http://www.aspca.org/). Have fun trying to explain to the animal police why dog rape is funny.
Good news: You'll probably end up on Animal Planet
Bad news: You'll be labled a 'Dog Rape Proponent' on your Grandma's favorite show
this is a new development.
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Dog rapists rarely commit their acts in the towns where they live. They usually nab the beasts, put them in the trunks of their cars, and transport them to a secluded outpost where they can bang away in relative peace and quiet. Except for the yelping.
Hilarious
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There is an awesome article on Pujols in the trib. He got tested six times last year and wants to be tested everyday. He is pissed off guys like Sosa and ARod cast doubt on his season.
He doesn't drink or smoke. In the clubhouse he watches video of himself instead of watching tv or playing video games. He even waits for the next elevator if a girl is on it by herself. He gets on teammates for having their jerseys untucked. He must hate the Brewers untuckem celebration!
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There is an awesome article on Pujols in the trib. He got tested six times last year and wants to be tested everyday. He is pissed off guys like Sosa and ARod cast doubt on his season.
He doesn't drink or smoke. In the clubhouse he watches video of himself instead of watching tv or playing video games. He even waits for the next elevator if a girl is on it by herself. He gets on teammates for having their jerseys untucked. He must hate the Brewers untuckem celebration!
He has said as much.
He is actually a star with his head screwed on straight.
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Still think he's a self-righteous prick.
When he quits taking pictures of his homers from the batters box, he can then preach about baseball etiquette.
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Still think he's a self-righteous prick.
When he quits taking pictures of his homers from the batters box, he can then preach about baseball etiquette.
I said the article was on Pujols not Ryan Braun ;D
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I said the article was on Pujols not Ryan Braun ;D
Sick burn
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Still think he's a self-righteous prick.
When he quits taking pictures of his homers from the batters box, he can then preach about baseball etiquette.
If Pujols had whipped out a camera from his back pocket and taken a picture of the HR he hit off Brad Lidge in the playoffs a couple years back, I would have been okay with that.
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I said the article was on Pujols not Ryan Braun ;D
Well played.
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The most likely to LITERALLY pull out a camera and take a picture of their homerun: Manny Ramirez. I'm not a fan of players admiring homeruns but I'd love every second of that.
Personally, I love a good bat flip rather than admiring a homerun. Jacques Jones comes to mind with the left handed bat flip. Big Papi in the first WBC had some nice bat flips as well.
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Also Milton Bradley is a fool because he does a bat flip when he walks. That's only ok when someone (MarqPTM) does it in co-ed intermural softball.
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Also Milton Bradley is a fool because he does a bat flip when he walks. That's only ok when someone (MarqPTM) does it in co-ed intermural softball.
Just jealous.
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Also Milton Bradley is a fool because he does a bat flip when he walks. That's only ok when someone (MarqPTM) does it in co-ed intermural softball.
I undo the straps on my batting gloves when I hit a homer in my beer-league softball games. no one seems to get as angry as when milton did it.
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I undo the straps on my batting gloves when I hit a homer in my beer-league softball games. no one seems to get as angry as when milton did it.
Try riding-the-bull with your bat to first base. That'll probably get a rise out of them
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I undo the straps on my batting gloves when I hit a homer in my beer-league softball games. no one seems to get as angry as when milton did it.
Just walk around the entire basepath. No jog, no trot, just a strut.
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Zambrano does not live in Winnetka.
Abducted the dog and drove to Winnetka.
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Just walk around the entire basepath. No jog, no trot, just a strut.
2 years ago a player on my team slid into home once when he put it over the fence... needless to say the other team was pissed.
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A few days ago some one hit a walk-off homerun (I think for the Orioles) and slid into home to avoid the mob.
I like this method. Obviously the walk-off is an exception but this is an excellent way to PO the other team!
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Things have calmed down here during the All-Star break. Let the pissing begin again tonight!
(http://i27.tinypic.com/10ihxuf.jpg)
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Is there any other painful day besides yesterday?
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CUBS ARE BANKRUPT.......
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Things have calmed down here during the All-Star break. Let the pissing begin again tonight!
(http://i27.tinypic.com/10ihxuf.jpg)
Cubbies start the 2nd half on the road against the Nationals one game behind the Crew.
The Brew Crew start on the road agains the Reds.
The Cards start at home against the Dbacks.
All three teams at or above .500 playing teams under .500. May the team that's geographically closest to MU win!
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CUBS ARE BANKRUPT.......
Could be the best business decision ever, if it happens.
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Could be the best business decision ever, if it happens.
A smart move? Sure. Best business decision ever? Maybe overstating it just a tad.
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A smart move? Sure. Best business decision ever? Maybe overstating it just a tad.
Probably, but the possibility of dumping Alfonso Soriano's contract gets me giddy.
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Probably, but the possibility of dumping Alfonso Soriano's contract gets me giddy.
LOL! Ummmm...no, that's not what it means, and there is no way on God's green earth that MLB would let them do that. My understanding is all that it really would mean is that creditors cannot come after the Cubs once the are spun from the Tribune company. ie, at that point, they would be their own entity, with no obligation to Tribune Co., debt.
This is nothing more than an attempt to make the sale go through quicker and more cleanly.
Find something you like about Sorry, because he is a Cub for 5 1/2 more years.
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LOL! Ummmm...no, that's not what it means, and there is no way on God's green earth that MLB would let them do that. My understanding is all that it really would mean is that creditors cannot come after the Cubs once the are spun from the Tribune company. ie, at that point, they would be their own entity, with no obligation to Tribune Co., debt.
This is nothing more than an attempt to make the sale go through quicker and more cleanly.
Find something you like about Sorry, because he is a Cub for 5 1/2 more years.
Ummm...yes, it could very well mean this. Bankruptcy would allow the Cubs to liquidate contracts, if they choose to. It would be the court's decision, not necessarily MLBs.
There was a nice article about the possibilities in the Trib a week or so ago. I'll have to find it.
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Ummm...yes, it could very well mean this. Bankruptcy would allow the Cubs to liquidate contracts, if they choose to. It would be the court's decision, not necessarily MLBs.
There was a nice article about the possibilities in the Trib a week or so ago. I'll have to find it.
MLB would never let that happen, and the players union would have a crap fit. sorry, that would set a TERRIBLE precident.
this gets my vote for the dumbest comment in the thread... and there have been some DOOSIES.
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Ummm...yes, it could very well mean this. Bankruptcy would allow the Cubs to liquidate contracts, if they choose to. It would be the court's decision, not necessarily MLBs.
There was a nice article about the possibilities in the Trib a week or so ago. I'll have to find it.
Wrong.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/bankruptcy-wont-exempt-cubs-from-contracts.html
http://www.suntimes.com/business/1664882,CST-NWS-cubs14.article
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Ummm...yes, it could very well mean this. Bankruptcy would allow the Cubs to liquidate contracts, if they choose to. It would be the court's decision, not necessarily MLBs.
There was a nice article about the possibilities in the Trib a week or so ago. I'll have to find it.
Bankruptcy generally does not allow an employer to liquidate an employee contract that was agreed to under the terms of a CBA with a union.
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Ummm...yes, it could very well mean this. Bankruptcy would allow the Cubs to liquidate contracts, if they choose to. It would be the court's decision, not necessarily MLBs.
There was a nice article about the possibilities in the Trib a week or so ago. I'll have to find it.
This won't happen for obvious reasons as these contracts will be exempt from the bankruptcy proceedings but I kinda wish they would let the Cubs do this. There is no way they would be able to field a competitive team (one that could win even 60 games) for the forseeable future after dumping fully guaranteed player contracts, the MLBPA would see to that by making sure not a single free agent signed there for a heck of a long time.
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The Cubs have been bankrupt in left and right fields all season.
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This won't happen for obvious reasons as these contracts will be exempt from the bankruptcy proceedings but I kinda wish they would let the Cubs do this. There is no way they would be able to field a competitive team (one that could win even 60 games) for the forseeable future after dumping fully guaranteed player contracts, the MLBPA would see to that by making sure not a single free agent signed there for a heck of a long time.
too bad? be smarter with your money?
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too bad? be smarter with your money?
Reread my post, I want them to be able to do it and then actually be idiotic enough to do it so that they would be horrible for quite awhile. However, this never, ever had a chance of actually happening.
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I'd just like to point out that the Cubs are the only thing that brings money in for the Tribune Company. Their television, newspapers, and other ventures all lose money.
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Also,
The Cubs ERA in the second half: 1.00
The Brewers ERA in the second half: 6.00
Ouch! ;D
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I'd just like to point out that the Cubs are the only thing that brings money in for the Tribune Company. Their television, newspapers, and other ventures all lose money.
yep, i have no idea why sam zell ever bought the trib, especially since he always had his sights set on selling his most profitable asset
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Also,
The Cubs ERA in the second half: 1.00
The Brewers ERA in the second half: 6.00
Ouch! ;D
The Brewers are scoring runs at a clip of 9.0 per game in the second half. Fielder is averaging one homer and 3 RBI's per game. And Hardy is hitting .500 in the second half. And the Brewers are undefeated.
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The Brewers are scoring runs at a clip of 9.0 per game in the second half. Fielder is averaging one homer and 3 RBI's per game. And Hardy is hitting .500 in the second half. And the Brewers are undefeated.
In addition, Brandon Looper has started 100% of our games and is batting 1.000.
Best pitcher of all time?!? More at 10, back to you Charles.
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Yep. Hard to believe that after such a sub-par first half, Prince Fielder is projected to finish with 96 HR and 300 RBI.
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Yep. Hard to believe that after such a sub-par first half, Prince Fielder is projected to finish with 96 HR and 300 RBI.
Haha I would have went with "you guys are playing the Nats".
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Haha I would have went with "you guys are playing the Nats".
Gotta save that one for Sunday. actually, the Phillies will probably provide all the reminder necessary next week.
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ESPN has a report on their website how the Brewers have a pretty easy 2nd half schedule compared to other teams in contention. It's all theirs for the taking if they wish to get it done.
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ESPN has a report on their website how the Brewers have a pretty easy 2nd half schedule compared to other teams in contention. It's all theirs for the taking if they wish to get it done.
I am not an Insider, so I cannot read the article...but it should say they have an easy end of July/August. It gets significantly harder in September.
July/August (in total games)
Atl x 3
Was x 8
SD x 6
LAD x 3
Hou x 6
Cin x 3 (not including today)
Pit x 6
This is what their September schedule looks like...
@ Stl (3)
vs. SF (3)
vs. Stl (3)
@ Ari (3)
@ Chi (4)
vs. Hou (3)
vs. Chi (3)
vs. Phi (4)
@ Col (3)
@ Stl (3)
That is brutal. Every team could have something to lay for, except Arizona. They need to win ALOT of games in July/August.
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That is brutal. Every team could have something to lay for, except Arizona. They need to win ALOT of games in July/August.
Yeah, but if they can go something like 24-15 in Jul/Aug (seems very realistic), a .500 Sep/Oct gets them to 87-88 wins, especially given who they play, that probably gets it done. All depends who, if anyone they acquire in the next week or two, because the current team likley isn't good enough.
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Anyone else think ARam looks like he wasn't quite ready to come back? Time will tell, but I continue to think there is a relatively high liklihood that decision comes back to haunt the Cubs.
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http://m.deadspin.com/site?t=lOF5enALr7VVL1AJwsKSDw&sid=deadspin
Riddle me this Catallanato!!!
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http://m.deadspin.com/site?t=lOF5enALr7VVL1AJwsKSDw&sid=deadspin
Riddle me this Catallanato!!!
...says nothing about him
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Right but it says who came up with the music and who asked permission to use it.
Also I've decided I want the Brewers to get Halladay. I want you to give up all your money and prospects for him. Think about it. There's no way he can top what C.C. Did last year. And even with C.C. being nearly perfect the only reason you made the playoffs is because Lou decided to throw a different pitcher every inning including the bad bad Bob Howry.
Plus even with him it still leaves you with a bad rotation. So go get him Brewers!
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Melvin won't give up the two players (Escobar and Gamel) that would be required to get Halladay... or any other pitcher for that matter, because it is a terrible idea in the long run and he knows it.
Its great to make the playoffs, but don't trade away the future of the franchise for Halladay.
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Right but it says who came up with the music and who asked permission to use it.
Also I've decided I want the Brewers to get Halladay. I want you to give up all your money and prospects for him. Think about it. There's no way he can top what C.C. Did last year. And even with C.C. being nearly perfect the only reason you made the playoffs is because Lou decided to throw a different pitcher every inning including the bad bad Bob Howry.
Plus even with him it still leaves you with a bad rotation. So go get him Brewers!
OK TT you are right, Frank copied him despite having the music as his walk-up music without ever hearing Beckham's. You really proved it to me there.
Also the Brewers absolutely would not have won that game had Lou not thrown different pitchers? Even with CC pitching a complete game and giving up only 1 run? I still like our chances. Not to mention, if we lose that game, we still have a 1 game playoff to make the playoffs. But again, you are absolutely right, the absolute only reason the Brewers made the playoffs last year was because Sweet Lou pitched bad pitchers in the last game of the season. And that was probably Sweet Lou's biggest mistake (which is saying quite a lot to be honest with you). You have a chance to keep a team from your own division out of the playoffs and to play the Wild Card team instead of a division winner, but you just throw the game, let the division team get into the playoffs, and thus play a much better team in the division winner, just to get swept. I'm really glad you brought that up.
And you're 1 game up on the Brewers right now. I really hope we do get Halladay. You'd try to play it all cool and say the rotation still sucks, but if Manny Parra continues to pitch like he has since coming back up (I wouldn't count on it, but IF...he's pitched 13 innings and given up 1 run since being called back up), then you're going to tell me a rotation of Halladay, Gallardo, and Parra as 1, 2, 3, and then Looper 4 and either Bush (if healthy) or Suppan 5 is a BAD rotation? If you are going to tell me that then you have absolutely 0 baseball credibility. Even if Parra sucks it up again and it's Halladay, Gallardo, Looper, Suppan, and Bush, that is not a BAD rotation.
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You'd try to play it all cool and say the rotation still sucks, but if Manny Parra continues to pitch like he has since coming back up (I wouldn't count on it, but IF...he's pitched 13 innings and given up 1 run since being called back up), then you're going to tell me a rotation of Halladay, Gallardo, and Parra as 1, 2, 3, and then Looper 4 and either Bush (if healthy) or Suppan 5 is a BAD rotation? If you are going to tell me that then you have absolutely 0 baseball credibility. Even if Parra sucks it up again and it's Halladay, Gallardo, Looper, Suppan, and Bush, that is not a BAD rotation.
Gallardo - Good
Halladay - Good
Looper - Bad
Parra - Bad
Suppan - Bad
Bush - Bad
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And you're 1 game up on the Brewers right now.You'd try to play it all cool and say the rotation still sucks.
I was playing it cool when we were down 4 games on the Brewers too.
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I was playing it cool when we were down 4 games on the Brewers too.
I'm glad you left the middle part of my post alone because you had absolutely nothing there. Desperate attempt that was thrown right back at you.
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Gallardo - Good
Halladay - Good
Looper - Bad
Parra - Bad
Suppan - Bad
Bush - Bad
Looper is 8-4 this year. I think most teams would take that from their #3 starter. Again, if Parra continues to pitch like he has since coming back up to the majors I'd say 1 run every 13 innings is pretty good. Suppan is bad all the time. Bush was good when he was healthy, so we'll see if he can get healthy again.
Are those 4 bad for a #1 starter? Yes. Are they the best 3-5 starters in the majors? No. Are they bad for 3-5 starters? No.
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Looper is 8-4 this year. I think most teams would take that from their #3 starter. Again, if Parra continues to pitch like he has since coming back up to the majors I'd say 1 run every 13 innings is pretty good. Suppan is bad all the time. Bush was good when he was healthy, so we'll see if he can get healthy again.
Are those 4 bad for a #1 starter? Yes. Are they the best 3-5 starters in the majors? No. Are they bad for 3-5 starters? No.
I think it's a bad idea to look at win-loss records to prove a pitcher's worth. Looper's WHIP and ERA are above average, and he's already given up almost as many homers in roughly one-half of the season as he did all of last year.
He's really lucked out getting no decisions a few times when he's given up a boatload of runs. I think the stats bare out that Looper's record is a function of luck and the Brewers being a top 4 offense in the NL.
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I'm glad you left the middle part of my post alone because you had absolutely nothing there. Desperate attempt that was thrown right back at you.
I didn't respond to the middle of your post because it had about 4 different ifs that all had to happen.
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I didn't respond to the middle of your post because it had about 4 different ifs that all had to happen.
Like what?
IF CC Sabathia was on the mound during the last game of the year: Check
IF he threw a complete game: Check
IF he only gave up one run: Check
IF the Marlins beat the Mets: Check
What do any of these have to do with Sweet Lou throwing out bad pitchers? I'm saying that regardless of who was pitching for the Cubs, with CC Sabathia on the mound, pitching a complete game and giving up 1 run, I don't think it matters who was pitching for the Cubs, the Brewers still had a very good chance to win that game. I am also saying that IF the Brewers had lost to the Cubs, they STILL would have had a 1 game playoff to make it into the playoffs as the Wild Card team. So to say that the reason the Brewers made the playoffs last year is because Sweet Lou threw bad pitchers on the last day is absolutely foolish.
I am also saying that it was very foolish of Sweet Lou to throw those bad pitchers against the Brewers, knowing that if the Cubs win that game then the Mets can still get into the playoffs as the Wild Card, and the Cubs play the Mets instead of the Dodgers in the 1st round and the Brewers aren't even in the playoffs. IF the Cubs beat the Brewers, the Brewers then play a 1 game playoff IN New York to go to the playoffs. IF the Mets win that game, the 1st round is MUCH easier for the Cubs, and they MIGHT actually have won at least ONE game.
Doesn't seem that unreasonable to me...
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I'll never understand Brewer fans. When I was at the Dodgers/Brewers game a "F the Cubs" chant broke out. There was no one wearing Cubs stuff in the area even.
Why do you guys put crapping on the Cubs ahead of supporting your team. These assclowns wear blue a red shirts making fun of the Cubs rather than wearing your own teams colors or gear. From a distance you appear to be a Cub fan no matter how clever your shirt is. One example is the Cubs logo turned into a choke logo. Anyone from more than 20 feet away is going to think your a Cubs fan. Hell look no farther than wadesworlds icon.
I just don't understand why you put crapping on another team in front of supporting your own.
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I'll never understand Brewer fans. When I was at the Dodgers/Brewers game a "F the Cubs" chant broke out. There was no one wearing Cubs stuff in the area even.
Why do you guys put crapping on the Cubs ahead of supporting your team. These assclowns wear blue a red shirts making fun of the Cubs rather than wearing your own teams colors or gear. From a distance you appear to be a Cub fan no matter how clever your shirt is. One example is the Cubs logo turned into a choke logo. Anyone from more than 20 feet away is going to think your a Cubs fan. Hell look no farther than wadesworlds icon.
I just don't understand why you put crapping on another team in front of supporting your own.
Perhaps we should ask Red Sox fans, since they'll start chanting F The Yankees at a Sox-Royals game.
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I'll never understand Brewer fans. When I was at the Dodgers/Brewers game a "F the Cubs" chant broke out. There was no one wearing Cubs stuff in the area even.
Why do you guys put crapping on the Cubs ahead of supporting your team. These assclowns wear blue a red shirts making fun of the Cubs rather than wearing your own teams colors or gear. From a distance you appear to be a Cub fan no matter how clever your shirt is. One example is the Cubs logo turned into a choke logo. Anyone from more than 20 feet away is going to think your a Cubs fan. Hell look no farther than wadesworlds icon.
I just don't understand why you put crapping on another team in front of supporting your own.
Probably because it's cheaper to get some "F the Cubs" shirt than to pay for a jersey?
Maybe their Favre jersey was in the wash?
They probably just became a fan of the Brewers in the last 3 years?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Crew fan but some of the "fans" I now come across at the park are just jagoffs so, yeah, TT, it doesn't really surprise me...
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Perhaps we should ask Red Sox fans, since they'll start chanting F The Yankees at a Sox-Royals game.
I don't know about you guys, but the last group of fans I'd like to be lumped in with are Sawx fans...
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Perhaps we should ask Red Sox fans, since they'll start chanting F The Yankees at a Sox-Royals game.
Fair enough....Red Sox fan obsess over the Yanks like no fan base obsesses over another. The Yanks view Sox fans as a quaint bunch, the kind of like a little kid that you always get the best of when all is said and done (the pre-2003 mentality remains in many cases......the sun sets in the East, the Sox are put away like beach chairs on the Cape in September). Nevertheless the Red Sox/Yankees rivalry didn't really exist in its present form until 1971 -- heck the BoSox never drew many fans until the Impossible Dream season of 1967. Anyway, in 1971 Munson and Fisk rubbed each other the wrong way and ultimately it led to a memorable brawl in 1976....the hate built for 5 solid years. The Yanks ran away from a talented Sox team that year before being swept by the Reds in the Series. The Yanks rebounded with back to back titles the following year -- highlighted by their amazing comeback at the expense of a drum-tight BoSox team in 1978. Bucky effing Dent...he annihilated Red Sox Nation, oy.
Since then the rivalry has been pretty vicious with the Yanks holding a decided advantage until 2004. Since the mid-70s the teams have largely been competitive, most notably since 1995 when they've jointly dominated the AL East like never before. Realize that these teams are within one or two wins of each other head-to-head since 2003 -- which is amazing when u play 19 times per season. The media feeds the obsession.....on both Yankee and Red Sox baseball networks they announcers routinely break format to update their heated rival's results from the night, usually with a comment or two. The two teams are constantly fighting for expanded radio access in central Connecticut where the geography gets dicey (New Britain, CT is 111 miles from Yankee Stadium and 111 miles from Fenway), and certain towns in CT become 'Yankee towns' or the opposite.
When u lump in this crowded geography, Babe Ruth and the vitriol that has developed in the last 40 years you get an obsession on both sides of the house.....moreso in Boston where MFY fans (use your gutter imagination) more successfully infiltrate the Old Towne Team's ballpark than you'd expect. Only the bravest BoSox fans will wear their colors to a night game in the Bronx. Trust me, its not worth it. At the Fens you can wear NY team gear to the game -- - don't try that at the Stadium. I've heard MFY fans spew vulgarities at kids for wearing Ortiz t-shirts to a game...I'm talking kids younger than 10. I'm off to see the Sox play at the Stadium next month -- I'll be wearing camo gear as will my children.
As for the 'F the Yankees' chant in other meaningless games that's true and a consequence of the ever-rising intensity of the rivalry. Just last month I was at Fenway for a Sox/Braves interleague game on a Friday night. Over near the Pesky Pole beers began flying and the fans were going nuts......after security got over there to calm things down two people were escorted out of the game. Two women wearing Yankees t-shirts, flipping fans the bird and throwing the remainder of their beer as they were paraded out.
For now, the rivalry remains at a fever pitch and probably will continue until one of these teams is sold to a lousy owner or dismantles the respective front offices.
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I'll never understand Brewer fans. When I was at the Dodgers/Brewers game a "F the Cubs" chant broke out. There was no one wearing Cubs stuff in the area even.
Why do you guys put crapping on the Cubs ahead of supporting your team. These assclowns wear blue a red shirts making fun of the Cubs rather than wearing your own teams colors or gear. From a distance you appear to be a Cub fan no matter how clever your shirt is. One example is the Cubs logo turned into a choke logo. Anyone from more than 20 feet away is going to think your a Cubs fan. Hell look no farther than wadesworlds icon.
I just don't understand why you put crapping on another team in front of supporting your own.
I think that we can all agree that we can't judge a team's fanbase by the jagoffs that we see doing stupid stuff at games.
I really doubt that you'd like me judging all Cubbies fans by extrapolating from a hand-picked sampling of the biggest r-tards I run across at a game at Wrigley :)
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I really doubt that you'd like me judging all Cubbies fans by extrapolating from a hand-picked sampling of the biggest r-tards I run across at a game at Wrigley :)
I highly recommend reading "The Cubs Fan's Guide to Happiness". It identifies said fools at Wrigley and the Lincoln Park Trixie.
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I highly recommend reading "The Cubs Fan's Guide to Happiness". It identifies said fools at Wrigley and the Lincoln Park Trixie.
Haha, classic! I'll have to check this out :)
(http://www.cubsguide.com/chapter6new.jpg)
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Whose excited for a 5-2 roadtrip!
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On the Score they said the Brewers are making a heavy push for Halladay or Cliff Lee. I hope this happens! Selling the future for a team who can't make a deep playoff run!
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On the Score they said the Brewers are making a heavy push for Halladay or Cliff Lee. I hope this happens! Selling the future for a team who can't make a deep playoff run!
How many examples do you need before you realize the MLB playoffs are a total crapshoot? Look back over the last 10 years and you'll find nobody gave half the teams that actually won it a chance at the begnning of July. If the Brewers go after Halladay that would give them a year and a half window to try to make a run during the postseason. How often do you see teams looking to set up for the "future", only to have the "future" never happen, or realize that their "future" has already passed. For a small market team like the Brewers, they need to try to win when they have a good nucleus of young talent (Braun, Fielder, Gallardo, Hardy and Hart if they start playing again) because chances are you won't be able to keep all that young talent together when they hit the free agency market.
You really contradict yourself when you discount all the young guys the Brewers have in the farm system ("the future"), saying they won't be able to step in someday for the big league club, but then scoff when the Crew tries to make a move by moving some of those same guys ("selling the future").
Give me Halladay, Gallardo, Braun, and Fielder in the playoffs. If those 4 guys all heat up (a big if) they can single-handedly win you a lot of games in the postseason.
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You really contradict yourself when you discount all the young guys the Brewers have in the farm system ("the future"), saying they won't be able to step in someday for the big league club, but then scoff when the Crew tries to make a move by moving some of those same guys ("selling the future").
He does that quite a bit. And then he'll ignore this part of your post in his reply and make some other ridiculous comment about how there are too many what ifs in your post.
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Well if you would read what I previously wrote in the thread I said aside from Gamel and Escobar all you have is unproven guys who will be bad. To get Halladay I don't see how you wouldn't be losing these two guys who are good. Thus I am excited you will lose Gamel and Escobar who I already said are good.
Where did my post condrict my earlier statement?
As for the playoffs, the times a good team wins still outnumbers the times a bad team takes it by a good margin. While it is a crapshoot you still have to be realistic.
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How many examples do you need before you realize the MLB playoffs are a total crapshoot? Look back over the last 10 years and you'll find nobody gave half the teams that actually won it a chance at the begnning of July. If the Brewers go after Halladay that would give them a year and a half window to try to make a run during the postseason. How often do you see teams looking to set up for the "future", only to have the "future" never happen, or realize that their "future" has already passed. For a small market team like the Brewers, they need to try to win when they have a good nucleus of young talent (Braun, Fielder, Gallardo, Hardy and Hart if they start playing again) because chances are you won't be able to keep all that young talent together when they hit the free agency market.
You really contradict yourself when you discount all the young guys the Brewers have in the farm system ("the future"), saying they won't be able to step in someday for the big league club, but then scoff when the Crew tries to make a move by moving some of those same guys ("selling the future").
Give me Halladay, Gallardo, Braun, and Fielder in the playoffs. If those 4 guys all heat up (a big if) they can single-handedly win you a lot of games in the postseason.
The Angels. They setup for the future every year which is why they consistently are in the playoffs every year. Last year they went for the big free agent move, and it did not put them over the top (despite having the best record in the American League).
Usually we stand pat and keep bringing guys up through the farm system. It brought us one world title and a number of division titles (it sucks we're in the American league with two behemoths like the Sox and Yankees to contend with). If you're going to make a major move, it better be to win it all not just to get into the playoffs. If you get Halladay, you need to win it all because he isn't sticking around Milwaukee long term.
Personally, I don't think Halladay would sign up to go to Milwaukee...I think he would say no with his no trade clause.
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Well if you would read what I previously wrote in the thread I said aside from Gamel and Escobar all you have is unproven guys who will be bad. To get Halladay I don't see how you wouldn't be losing these two guys who are good. Thus I am excited you will lose Gamel and Escobar who I already said are good.
Where did my post condrict my earlier statement?
As for the playoffs, the times a good team wins still outnumbers the times a bad team takes it by a good margin. While it is a crapshoot you still have to be realistic.
I was more referring to this quote: "And if he never does become Major League ready maybe you misjudged him like all of the players you have slotted to fill your team in the upcoming years..." I thought you were including Gamel and Escobar in that quote, but I did see where you said they "weren't a big pile of crap."
Yes, the Brewers do have to be realistic, and realize that as a small market team they will have a tough time competing year in and year out over a long stretch of time. When they have good, young, and cheap talent they might have to make some moves to try to put them over the top.
Chicos, I didn't realize the Angels were a small market team. I must have been fooled by the fact that they have been in the top 6 in payroll every year over the last 6. Or it could have also been the fact that Fuentes, Abreu, Hunter, Matthews, Escobar, Colon, and Guererro were all obtained through high-dollar free agency contracts (they did get Abreu on the cheap). Not to mention that they offered Texiera $160 million last offseason as well.
Obviously, they've brought up some guys through the system as well (Kendrick, Figgins, Garrett Anderson, Lackey) but don't try to say that the Angels "Usually stand pat and keep bringing guys up through the farm system" and try to compare them to the Brewers. I mean Jeff Suppan is the Brewer's biggest free agent signing EVER at $42 million (man I bet they wish they could have that one back) for goodness sake. Now, I'm not saying the Angels are wrong/bad for doing this because obviously they have been very successful in recent years, I'm just try to point out that you didn't make a very valid comparison.
I agree I don't think they will get Halladay either, not because of the no-trade clause, but because I really don't think Melvin wants to give that much up (whether that's right or wrong). Of course, I thought there was no way they were getting CC last year either so what do I know.
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Chicos, I didn't realize the Angels were a small market team. I must have been fooled by the fact that they have been in the top 6 in payroll every year over the last 6. Or it could have also been the fact that Fuentes, Abreu, Hunter, Matthews, Escobar, Colon, and Guererro were all obtained through high-dollar free agency contracts (they did get Abreu on the cheap). Not to mention that they offered Texiera $160 million last offseason as well.
Obviously, they've brought up some guys through the system as well (Kendrick, Figgins, Garrett Anderson, Lackey) but don't try to say that the Angels "Usually stand pat and keep bringing guys up through the farm system" and try to compare them to the Brewers. I mean Jeff Suppan is the Brewer's biggest free agent signing EVER at $42 million (man I bet they wish they could have that one back) for goodness sake. Now, I'm not saying the Angels are wrong/bad for doing this because obviously they have been very successful in recent years, I'm just try to point out that you didn't make a very valid comparison.
I agree I don't think they will get Halladay either, not because of the no-trade clause, but because I really don't think Melvin wants to give that much up (whether that's right or wrong). Of course, I thought there was no way they were getting CC last year either so what do I know.
And here I thought for sure we were talking about mid season acquisitions when I was referencing standing pat...silly me. ;D
Abreu...OFFSEASON acquisition
Hunter...OFFSEASON acquisition
Matthews...OFFSEASON acquisition
Escobar....OFFSEASON acquisition
Colon...OFFSEASON acquisition
Guerrero...OFFSEASON acquisition
I was talking about standing pat at the trading deadline which is what the whole discussion was about with the players you mentioned.
Yes, the Angels don't stand pat in the OFFSEASON, but mostly do during the season (last year being one of the rare exceptions when they went after Teixeira).
The Angels were ranked #1 farm system by Baseball America last year. They've won the award of best minor league system 3 times in the last 6 years and finished runner-up once. They believe in bringing guys up and plugging pieces. Unlike the Yankees who purchase everyone.
And yes, we are a "big market" team now, of course it wasn't long ago that we weren't. In fact, when Schlessinger and I worked at the Angels, we most certainly were not. We weren't small market, but we weren't big market either. That changed when Moreno bought the team from Disney.
So to be clear, I was talking about mid season acquisitions. Yes, we will continue to go out and get a few free agents and mix them in with our home grown talent. We will not be a team that buys all their players.
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Well if you would read what I previously wrote in the thread I said aside from Gamel and Escobar all you have is unproven guys who will be bad.
You know that how exactly?
BTW, just so you know, Gamel and Escobar are also unproven.
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The Angels. They setup for the future every year which is why they consistently are in the playoffs every year. Last year they went for the big free agent move, and it did not put them over the top (despite having the best record in the American League).
We were talking about midseason moves but once you mentioned a big free agent move (not a trade) I thought you were referring to the construction of your team in general.
I like how you chastise the Yankees for buying all their players, even though the Angels have relatively the same plan to build their team, just on a smaller scale. Posada, Cano, Jeter, Cabrera, Pettite, Rivera, Joba, Hughes are all guys the Yankees have developed and are very big contributors to their team. The main difference between the Yankees and the Angels, Red Sox, Tigers..etc is not really the amount of free agent acquistions (although they do tend to make a few more in-season trades that most other teams) but rather the scale of those acquisitions. Arod, CC, and Texiera all make a ton of money, especially compared to trios like Vlad, Escobar, and Hunter or Big Papi, Beckett, and Bay.
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We were talking about midseason moves but once you mentioned a big free agent move (not a trade) I thought you were referring to the construction of your team in general.
I like how you chastise the Yankees for buying all their players, even though the Angels have relatively the same plan to build their team, just on a smaller scale. Posada, Cano, Jeter, Cabrera, Pettite, Rivera, Joba, Hughes are all guys the Yankees have developed and are very big contributors to their team. The main difference between the Yankees and the Angels, Red Sox, Tigers..etc is not really the amount of free agent acquistions (although they do tend to make a few more in-season trades that most other teams) but rather the scale of those acquisitions. Arod, CC, and Texiera all make a ton of money, especially compared to trios like Vlad, Escobar, and Hunter or Big Papi, Beckett, and Bay.
Well, you and I will have to disagree.
Starting first baseman = Angels system
Starting second baseman = Angels system
Starting Shortstop = Angels system
Starting third baseman = Angels system
Starting catchers (both, split time) = Angels system
Starting pitcher 1 = Angels system
Starting pitcher 2 = Angels system
Starting pitcher 3 = Angels system
Starting pitcher 4 = Angels system
Starting pitcher 5 = Would have been Nick Adenhardt who was killed this year...Angels system
So the entire starting infield and the pitchers 1 through 4 starters this year are all Angels system guys. Plus a good chunk of the bullpen is also Angels guys (Shields, Mosely, Jepsen, etc)
The only guys that aren't are the three outfielders and Maicer Izturis (who the Angels got after his rookie year when he played a whopping 32 games for the Expos).
I'd call that mostly Angels system guys. Where the difference is with the Yankees, in my opinion, is that they do go after quantity...Sabathia, Burnett, Damon, Mitre, Molina, A-Rod, Teixiera, Hinske, Swisher, and Matsui. They're loaded with free agents all over the place on ANY given night. The Angels are LOADED with system players on their team on any given night.
I'm sorry, but we will have to agree to disagree. I don't see the similarities between the Angels and Yankees at all in team make up.
PS When I say system guys, that doesn't always mean the club drafted them, but they obtained them while they were still in the minors and then developed them in their own minor league system.
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If you're going to make a major move, it better be to win it all not just to get into the playoffs. If you get Halladay, you need to win it all because he isn't sticking around Milwaukee long term.
100% agree. When you make a move you should ask does this bring us closer to a championship? That's why I like what the White Sox are doing. They realize that even though they are a game out, selling may actually be the way to bring a championship sooner. Especially with their very difficult second half schedule which could very likely cause them to miss the playoffs.
By trading for Halladay, the Brewers ate settling for just making the playoffs and not winning a championship.
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so the Brewers trade for Peavy. The next 25 games are all against easier teams... so by the time Peavy gets back and is ready to go, they are in the home stretch of games... plus they can keep him longer than Halladay.
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Well, you and I will have to disagree.
Starting first baseman = Angels system
Starting second baseman = Angels system
Starting Shortstop = Angels system
Starting third baseman = Angels system
Starting catchers (both, split time) = Angels system
Starting pitcher 1 = Angels system
Starting pitcher 2 = Angels system
Starting pitcher 3 = Angels system
Starting pitcher 4 = Angels system
Starting pitcher 5 = Would have been Nick Adenhardt who was killed this year...Angels system
So the entire starting infield and the pitchers 1 through 4 starters this year are all Angels system guys. Plus a good chunk of the bullpen is also Angels guys (Shields, Mosely, Jepsen, etc)
The only guys that aren't are the three outfielders and Maicer Izturis (who the Angels got after his rookie year when he played a whopping 32 games for the Expos).
I'd call that mostly Angels system guys. Where the difference is with the Yankees, in my opinion, is that they do go after quantity...Sabathia, Burnett, Damon, Mitre, Molina, A-Rod, Teixiera, Hinske, Swisher, and Matsui. They're loaded with free agents all over the place on ANY given night. The Angels are LOADED with system players on their team on any given night.
I'm sorry, but we will have to agree to disagree. I don't see the similarities between the Angels and Yankees at all in team make up.
PS When I say system guys, that doesn't always mean the club drafted them, but they obtained them while they were still in the minors and then developed them in their own minor league system.
Disagree if you want but the facts are this:
Of the 10 angels with the most ab this year, 4 were free agent pickups (this is excluding Izturis) and this does not include vlad since he's been hurt and only has 185 abs.
Of the 10 yankees with the most ab this year, 5 were free agent pickups. This does not include Nady who has been hurt most of this year as well.
Of the 5 angels starters, one was a free agent (the guy with the 3rd best era and the 4th most innings pitched, so I really doubt he wouldn't be in there if Adenhaart was still around, more likely Santana would be out). In addition, your closer was a free agent pickup. Not to mention, you have another free agent starter the angels are shelling out $10 million to this year, even though he's hurt
Of the 5 yankees starters (doesn't matter who you pencil in as 5th-Hughes or Wang), two are free agent pickups (Pettite was a fa as well but he was brought up by the Yankees so that's a little murky there). Their close is homegrown.
Both teams have some other guys (Molina, Hinske, Oliver, Speier) on the bench/in the pen who were fa pickups but they are mostly bit players so I am not including them in the comparison.
So let's tally them up (top 5 starting pitchers, closer, and pos players including 1 sub)
Angels - 6/16 were fa pickups, this does not include Vlad or Escobar
Yankees - 7/16 were fa pickups, this does not include Nady
I don't see that as a big difference there. If you don't agree then we'll definitely have to agree to disagree. As I said, the biggest difference between the teams is that the Yankees will more often go for guys in the middle of the season and that the Yankees will shell out bigger (not more) free agent contracts. As you like to say so often, I'm not defending the Yankees (TC), I'm just trying to straighten out the facts. However, it is good to have a relevant baseball (or any topical) discussion w/o the childish/irrational jabs, insults..etc. that people seem to throw out so often.
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Nothing I stated was incorrect....who is this 3rd best ERA starter you speak of? Our starters this year are Lackey (Angels system), Saunders (Angels), Santana (Angels), and Weaver (Angels). The 5th starter is actually O'Sullivan (also Angels). Are you referencing Palmer? Yeah, he started a few games this year but is relegated to the bullpen. Escobar? He pitched in one game all season.
Izturis is a utility player that also plays DH (like he did again last night). He has not started the most games at any position and therefore cannot be called the starter at any position.
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Nothing I stated was incorrect....who is this 3rd best ERA starter you speak of? Our starters this year are Lackey (Angels system), Saunders (Angels), Santana (Angels), and Weaver (Angels). The 5th starter is actually O'Sullivan (also Angels). Are you referencing Palmer? Yeah, he started a few games this year but is relegated to the bullpen. Escobar? He pitched in one game all season.
Izturis is a utility player that also plays DH (like he did again last night). He has not started the most games at any position and therefore cannot be called the starter at any position.
I didn't say anything you said was incorrect, but you also didn't make a clear comparison between the two teams like I did.
I was talking about Palmer, the guy who has made the 4th most starts on your team. I don't know the current alignment of your starting pitching, but just looking at the stats I can see he has the 4th most starts on your team and the 4th most innings pitched so I assumed he was in your starting rotation. Drilling down I can see he hasn't been starting lately.
I clearly stated I was excluding Escobar, rather I was just pointing out that he was a free agent pickup that the halos are shelling out $10 mil to this year, even though he hasn't been able to pitch.
I also clearly stated I was excluding Izturis as a free agent pickup.
The facts are the facts.
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100% agree. When you make a move you should ask does this bring us closer to a championship? That's why I like what the White Sox are doing. They realize that even though they are a game out, selling may actually be the way to bring a championship sooner. Especially with their very difficult second half schedule which could very likely cause them to miss the playoffs.
By trading for Halladay, the Brewers ate settling for just making the playoffs and not winning a championship.
So, do you think the Cubs should be sellers as well?
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So, do you think the Cubs should be sellers as well?
I do, but I am not on either side in this pissing match so my opinion may not matter. They can't add any one piece to move past the Dodgers or Phillies, so why blow up the future.
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So, do you think the Cubs should be sellers as well?
If the Cubs were able to get quality prospects that could help us in the future more than right now, yes they should sell. But no one out there is going to take the contracts we have. Plus with the change in ownership the team can't eat any money either. Therefore selling isnt really an option for the Cubs.
The thing that can bring them closer to a championship at this time is to try to pick up a second baseman. I'd like Freddie Sanchez but I don't know if the Cubs could take on his $7 million salary next year.
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The facts are the facts.
Correct, and the facts are that all five Angels starting pitchers are Angels system players and the entire infield is, including both catchers.
The exceptions are the outfield and Izturis. The Yankees, when you factor in their starting pitching, have more free agents as well as more free agent position players. Those are the facts. ;)
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If the Cubs were able to get quality prospects that could help us in the future more than right now, yes they should sell. But no one out there is going to take the contracts we have. Plus with the change in ownership the team can't eat any money either. Therefore selling isnt really an option for the Cubs.
The thing that can bring them closer to a championship at this time is to try to pick up a second baseman. I'd like Freddie Sanchez but I don't know if the Cubs could take on his $7 million salary next year.
Ok, I'm glad to see you say that because then it just means we have more of a philosophical disagreement. I'm usually of the opinion you do what you can to get in the playoffs (obviously within reason) and then you take your chances from there. The way it looks now, anybody coming out the central is likely to get swept, but you never know when a team gets on a roll and gets hots. It happens less than the favored team winning it all, but there are far too many examples of teams nobody thought had a shot getting into the WS or even winning it.
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No I agree with you too that a team can get hot and anything can happen. But I also believe for the most part the better team wins.
For example the 1998 Wild Card Cubs team didn't stand a chance of winning in the playoffs.
On a unrelated note does anyone remember when the Brewers sent Italian Sausage to stand on Waveland and cheer on the Cubs in 2003? They did it as a thank you for filling Miller Park that year. He stood right next to the crab shack guy.
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For example the 1998 Wild Card Cubs team didn't stand a chance of winning in the playoffs.
I definitely thought that in '06 about the Cards and look what happened. I'm just saying, you never know.
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I definitely thought that in '06 about the Cards and look what happened. I'm just saying, you never know.
I agree...no one gave the Wild Card Angels a chance in 2002 and that year both World Series contestants were Wild Card winners (Giants and Halos).
You just never know.
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http://failblog.org/2009/07/24/hat-fail/
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http://failblog.org/2009/07/24/hat-fail/
That is funny!!! ;D
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http://failblog.org/2009/07/24/hat-fail/
Thanks, I just wasted an hour laughing at images on there.
On another note... Cards just picked up Holliday to get Albert some help.
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Thanks, I just wasted an hour laughing at images on there.
On another note... Cards just picked up Holliday to get Albert some help.
Looks like my prediction of the Cards winning the division at the beginning of the year will come true...
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Holliday doesn't make that big of a difference.
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Holliday doesn't make that big of a difference.
Can't decide what I think about it. I think he very well could make a big difference. In a divivion that is lilley to be decided by a game or two, it certainly improves the look of their lineup. I think it solidifies the Brewers position as the third team in a three team race (pending any possible moves this week of course)...I might be willing to elevate the Cardinals to first though. Not just because of this move, but it sure helps.
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Holliday doesn't make that big of a difference.
Despite his "down" year, Holliday stil brings with him an .831 ops, much higher than Duncan's .687 (since traded) and Ankiel's .649 (will prolly still see quite a few abs as a ph and to give the other guys a rest which TLR loves to do); the two guys he will primarily be replacing in the lineup. Add this to the acquistion of DeRosa who's finally looked comfortable over the last 4 games and I don't see how the Cards aren't the division favorites.
In addition, with the ability to trot out Carp, Wainwrigt, Pineiro (and Lohse if they need a 4th starter) and Franklin to close down games, the Cards are suddenly set up for what could be a deep postseason run.
However, they did give up a lot to get Holliday (top of their top 10 prospects) and it remains to be seen if they can/want to sign him (or DeRosa) to a reasonable contract for the long term.
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Why Miller park sucks:
Actually it has nothing to do, the stadium itself, it has more to do with how big of a scumbag turd bud selig is (next to Mark Cuban, he's probably the worst thing for sports) and how fat Wisconsinites are (Milwaukee, where 7s are 10s).
http://deadspin.com/5322107/why-your-stadium-sucks-miller-park
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Why Miller park sucks:
Actually it has nothing to do, the stadium itself, it has more to do with how big of a scumbag turd bud selig is (next to Mark Cuban, he's probably the worst thing for sports) and how fat Wisconsinites are (Milwaukee, where 7s are 10s).
http://deadspin.com/5322107/why-your-stadium-sucks-miller-park
That was actually pretty funny, I guess they are doing one for every stadium.
Here is Wrigleys:
http://deadspin.com/5288450/why-your-stadium-sucks-wrigley-field (http://deadspin.com/5288450/why-your-stadium-sucks-wrigley-field)
And a couple more links you might like
See #13
http://www.mensfitness.com/lifestyle/216 (http://www.mensfitness.com/lifestyle/216)
See #11
http://www.mensfitness.com/lifestyle/217 (http://www.mensfitness.com/lifestyle/217)
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Thanks, I just wasted an hour laughing at images on there.
On another note... Cards just picked up Holliday to get Albert some help.
This one is brilliant
http://www.viddler.com/explore/failblog/videos/164/35.176/
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Well yeah Holliday helps but I don't think he will make that big of an impact.
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This one is brilliant
http://www.viddler.com/explore/failblog/videos/164/35.176/
haha, awesome, i wasted more than a few people's fridays. :-D
also, find the one with the guy biking over a puddle... think its somewhere in asia... Bike fail or something... great.
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Looks like Ted Lilly is going on the DL with shoulder tendenitis. He has he had this in Toronto and only missed a few starts.
It's amazing the Cubs have lost Ramirez, Soto, Lilly, Zambrano, Guzman, Dempster, Miles, Johnson, Bradley, etc all for significant time to the DL and are only 0.5 games out of first. (First place in the loss column.)
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I renamed the thread to simply "Baseball Pissing Match" in order to include all teams in the pissing including Chicos' beloved Angels.
There has to be some Cards, Twins, and Chi Sox fans out there. Please join in!
Welcome all pissers!
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Looks like Ted Lilly is going on the DL with shoulder tendenitis. He has he had this in Toronto and only missed a few starts.
It's amazing the Cubs have lost Ramirez, Soto, Lilly, Zambrano, Guzman, Dempster, Miles, Johnson, Bradley, etc all for significant time to the DL and are only 0.5 games out of first. (First place in the loss column.)
NL Central is truly a suckfest!
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Well, now that we're invited, go White Sox! ;)
And here I was about to add a Sox/Twins/Tigers pissing match thread...
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Looks like Ted Lilly is going on the DL with shoulder tendenitis. He has he had this in Toronto and only missed a few starts.
It's amazing the Cubs have lost Ramirez, Soto, Lilly, Zambrano, Guzman, Dempster, Miles, Johnson, Bradley, etc all for significant time to the DL and are only 0.5 games out of first. (First place in the loss column.)
...wake me up when there's something worth reading
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...wake me up when there's something worth reading
In this thread you'll be sleeping along time :D
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I renamed the thread to simply "Baseball Pissing Match" in order to include all teams in the pissing including Chicos' beloved Angels.
There has to be some Cards, Twins, and Chi Sox fans out there. Please join in!
Welcome all pissers!
Does Lance Armstrong like baseball?
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I want to piss on TT for changing the name of the longest thread in MUScoop history.
TT = Fail. :)
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I want to piss on TT for changing the name of the longest thread in MUScoop history.
TT = Fail. :)
+1
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You guys want it changed back? I didn't mean to cause a "Gold" fiasco.
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Does Lance Armstrong like baseball?
He liked it more when steroids were at their peak ;D
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I love all these rumors about Halladay. There are like 20 a day. You go to si.com and the main story is that the Phils and Jays are in serious negotiations and it could be done soon. You go to espn.com and the top story in the headlines is that the Phils won't meat the Jays demands.
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I love all these rumors about Halladay. There are like 20 a day. You go to si.com and the main story is that the Phils and Jays are in serious negotiations and it could be done soon. You go to espn.com and the top story in the headlines is that the Phils won't meat the Jays demands.
MLB Trade Rumors does a nice job summarizing all of the rumors with timestamps.
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weird.... ::)
http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings
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Cubs bats are coming to life. I realize they played bad teams but the bats were struggling with these same bad teams before.
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A spark had to start somewhere...
I like the matchup the next couple series with the stros, marlins, and rockies
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Cubs bats are coming to life. I realize they played bad teams but the bats were struggling with these same bad teams before.
Agreed...good teams, bad teams....doesn't matter. They're starting to hit....every team has to play the same opponents so I don't buy into the good team/bad team thing....any team can beat you on any given night.
Ramirez hitting .563 on the homestand and Soriano .444 since the break....if Bradley can get even lukewarm this team can go on a big run.
That "bust" Harden we picked up last year is 2-0 in his last 3 starts with 21 Ks, 2 BBs and 0.42 ERA in 19 innings.....not bad for a fourth starter.
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Over the break Harden worked with Rothschild to use more of his legs in his delivery. So far so good as he has had 3 great outings including one against the powerful Phils.
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....if Bradley can get even lukewarm this team can go on a big run.
Not sure on exact stats, but the dude has been getting some decent ABs and drawing many walks. If he is going to get on base in front of a Hot Soriano...I'll take it!
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weird.... ::)
http://espn.go.com/mlb/powerrankings
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weird.... ::)
http://espn.go.com/mlb/powerrankings
Call me crazy, but I don't think the Cubs can come close to the 2 national league teams above them.
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weird.... ::)
http://espn.go.com/mlb/powerrankings
WOOOOOO! 9TH PLACE!!!
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I agree the Phils and Dodgers are on a different level than everyone else right now. (Another reason why I don't get my hopes up about a playoff run.)
If the Cubs can continue playing the way they have been against good teams then I'll throw them up on that level. I know they ate capable as almost the same team did last year.
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WOOOOOO! 9TH PLACE!!!
Hilarious....EXACTLY my point.....meaningless (please note the teal and rolling eyes).....how many times have you posted rankings and/or standings when the Brewers were in front of the Cubs in MAY?!
Nice showing by the Brewers tonight....losing by more than a touchdown to baseball's worst team at home....ouch.
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Ouch....
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290727108
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weird.... ::)
http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings
94, you beat me to the punch, thats the exact post I was going to make once the Brewers fall to 5th. I still don't know if the Crew will finish in 5th, but its starting to look more and more possible each day.
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Hilarious....EXACTLY my point.....meaningless (please note the teal and rolling eyes).....how many times have you posted rankings and/or standings when the Brewers were in front of the Cubs in MAY?!
Nice showing by the Brewers tonight....losing by more than a touchdown to baseball's worst team at home....ouch.
I did a few times, when we were ranked THIRD. But NINTH, now THAT is something to be proud of! GO CUBS BABY! WOOOOOO!
And you just made two posts...in a row...essentially stating the EXACT same thing. Congratulations.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290704116
Anybody can find one bad game for another team. Really impressive stuff by you.
I love the Cubs fans hard ons over the first 2 weeks after the break. The only team with any chance to win a game in the playoffs from the NL Central is the Cardinals, and even they will have a hard time doing that.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uyz6pXm74nI&feature=related
...and I now understand why Wrigley Field's 2nd name is "The World's Biggest Gay Bar." And it's not just the guy in yellow. It's everybody! Haha!
"I'm sweeping the Indians!" It sounds like this thread's Cubs fans! Yeah, we're hot baby! Beating the Nationals, Reds, and now a game from Houston! Watch out!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uyz6pXm74nI&feature=related
...and I now understand why Wrigley Field's 2nd name is "The World's Biggest Gay Bar." And it's not just the guy in yellow. It's everybody! Haha!
"I'm sweeping the Indians!" It sounds like this thread's Cubs fans! Yeah, we're hot baby! Beating the Nationals, Reds, and now a game from Houston! Watch out!
Wadesworld... from a Brewer fan, you can stop finding the oddest way to attempt to make fun of the Cubs.
As a Brewer fan, I would love the Brewers to beat the Nationals, Reds and Houston. Because last time I checked, we lost a series to the Reds recently, and just lost 14-6 to the Nats tonight.
The Brewers haven't won back to back games since sometime in June.
Although I agree the man in the yellow is a douche, the Cubs are playing good ball right now, the Brewers aren't... shoosh
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For the record I am 120% ok with the Astros throwing at Soriano today.
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I did a few times, when we were ranked THIRD. But NINTH, now THAT is something to be proud of! GO CUBS BABY! WOOOOOO!
And you just made two posts...in a row...essentially stating the EXACT same thing. Congratulations.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=290704116
Anybody can find one bad game for another team. Really impressive stuff by you.
I love the Cubs fans hard ons over the first 2 weeks after the break. The only team with any chance to win a game in the playoffs from the NL Central is the Cardinals, and even they will have a hard time doing that.
You seem upset. It was pretty impressive when the Brewers were ranked Third in some subjective ranking system in May....you should feel damn proud of that. I love the how you start firing off youtube clips....again, you've become very fun to watch/read....keep up the good work.
The over/under on wadesworld posts on this thread today.....4.....I'll go with the over.
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As a Brewer fan, I would love the Brewers to beat the Nationals, Reds and Houston. Because last time I checked, we lost a series to the Reds recently, and just lost 14-6 to the Nats tonight.
And in hilarious fashion, too. :)
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You seem upset. It was pretty impressive when the Brewers were ranked Third in some subjective ranking system in May....you should feel damn proud of that. I love the how you start firing off youtube clips....again, you've become very fun to watch/read....keep up the good work.
The over/under on wadesworld posts on this thread today.....4.....I'll go with the over.
my favorite part about your posts recently MF94 is that you seem to think that July is September.
maybe drop the standings postings until its all decided... lest you look like the people you are currently making fun of?
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my favorite part about your posts recently MF94 is that you seem to think that July is September.
maybe drop the standings postings until its all decided... lest you look like the people you are currently making fun of?
See it's different when MU94 does it, he puts one of these on the end of the sentence ::) , thus making it ok and funny.
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my favorite part about your posts recently MF94 is that you seem to think that July is September.
maybe drop the standings postings until its all decided... lest you look like the people you are currently making fun of?
And my favorite part of your post Hards is that you completely missed my sarcasm which I would've thought should've been pretty clear by the use of teal text coupled with rolling eyes.....I realize it's July and the standings, BS rankings, etc. at this point are meaningless.....other Brewer fans here apparently thought otherwise in MAY.
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See it's different when MU94 does it, he puts one of these on the end of the sentence ::) , thus making it ok and funny.
This is becoming funnier by the minute....honestly....the entire point of my posts is that rankings and standings at this point are meaningless and ridiculous....how much more do I need to spell it out reinko? sarcasm is difficult to grasp sometimes....oh wait, was I serious?
Although it is nice to be in first place. ;D
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For the record I am 120% ok with the Astros throwing at Soriano today.
+ 121%. Soriano is wearing one off the earhole today.
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I don't know the brewers contracts or how doug melvin works...but say the Brewers find themselves 6 back on Wed, worst case scenario 6.5 or 7 on Thursday, do they become sellers?
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I don't know the brewers contracts or how doug melvin works...but say the Brewers find themselves 6 back on Wed, worst case scenario 6.5 or 7 on Thursday, do they become sellers?
As a Brewer fan, I am not sure what we exactly have to sell. Hall is untouchable, Hardy and Hart have played like girls this year. We have no setup guys of value. Only non-stud players of value that could be moved; Council, Cameron, Hoffman, Parra (maybe).
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Hart and Hardy are both tradeable, and I can gaurentee you there is a market out there for Hardy.
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And my favorite part of your post Hards is that you completely missed my sarcasm which I would've thought should've been pretty clear by the use of teal text coupled with rolling eyes.....I realize it's July and the standings, BS rankings, etc. at this point are meaningless.....other Brewer fans here apparently thought otherwise in MAY.
sarcasm isn't the easiest thing to detect over the internet... isn't that why we use teal for it?
I suppose you didn't get that memo.
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As a Brewer fan, I am not sure what we exactly have to sell. Hall is untouchable, Hardy and Hart have played like girls this year. We have no setup guys of value. Only non-stud players of value that could be moved; Council, Cameron, Hoffman, Parra (maybe).
Hardy and Hart are still under control, and have demonstrated some ability (at one time anyway). Cameron would be a defensive upgrade for just about any team, and has a plus bat for a CF. Best thing the Brewers could do, is find a team that wants one of those guys, ask for very little in return, and try to make them take Bill Hall or Jeff Suppan in the deal.
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sarcasm isn't the easiest thing to detect over the internet... isn't that why we use teal for it?
I suppose you didn't get that memo.
Um, I did use teal....and added rolling eyes to emphasize it.....you may want to check again.
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Um, I did use teal....and added rolling eyes to emphasize it.....you may want to check again.
Hey boys, lets get this back to baseball, no need for the longest running thread to get locked because of 2 people arguing over sarcastic remarks!
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+ 121%. Soriano is wearing one off the earhole today.
Why because it took him 30 seconds to make it to first base?
Or because of the thing with his hands?
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Why because it took him 30 seconds to make it to first base?
Or because of the thing with his hands?
The "you can't see me" motion in awesome...none of that was directed towards the astros.
The pointing and walking after the hit is prob what got them angry!
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The pointing wasn't tooo bad. He was pointing to his family who came up to see the game.
The walking, "you can't see me" motion, and walk around the bases are what is going to get him drilled.
I don't want them to, but I wouldn't blame the Astros for throwing at his head tonight. That's how baseball works.
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The over/under on wadesworld posts on this thread today.....4.....I'll go with the over.
Haha the funny thing is you've already topped that number. And over the last 24 hours you have 9 posts compared to my 3. If you're going to try to make fun of how much I post on here you might want to consider how much you do first. Think about what you're saying before you say it. But like other people have said, when you do it it's hilarious and sarcastic and in good fun, but when I do it I'm insane and angry and have an obsession with the Cubs. Hilarious.
As for whether or not the Brewers should become sellers, I wish we had the players worth selling. At this point yes we could get something for JJ and Cory who need a RF and a SS, but they are worth about as little as they possibly can be right now, so personally I'd like to keep them until the offseason in hopes that they get something going and raise their trade value. Worst case scenario, they finish off the season as they have played all year and their trade value is the same as it is now.
We could try to trade Cameron, but how many teams want a 36 year old who has 2 months left on his contract? Same thing with Counsell (even less trade value...he's a solid roll player, not starter, at best) and Hoffman. We could try to get something for them because their contracts are up after this year (other than maybe Counsell, I don't know what his contract looks like), but we aren't going to get any future studs for any of them.
Obviously you don't trade Yovanni or Braun, and I would hope that those who were calling for Melvin to trade Prince would be quiet now. He's literally 50% of our offense. If we trade that away then not only do we have the worst pitching in the NL but we also have one of, if not the, worst offenses in the NL. Not to mention he is no longer a power hitter who hits .275-.280, and he's definitely not a defensive liability anymore. I hope we can somehow sign him to a long term deal, but with Boras his agent I'm not too optimistic. At least we control him for another year after his 2 year deal is up next year. If we trade him it better 2 years from now, not this year or next.
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The "you can't see me" motion in awesome...none of that was directed towards the astros.
The pointing and walking after the hit is prob what got them angry!
He was pointing to his cousin in the first row I guess....but still bush league. He may get beaned today....as long as he doesn't get hurt, so be it.
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The pointing wasn't tooo bad. He was pointing to his family who came up to see the game.
The walking, "you can't see me" motion, and walk around the bases are what is going to get him drilled.
I don't want them to, but I wouldn't blame the Astros for throwing at his head tonight. That's how baseball works.
So you're not going to come on here, bitch and moaning about throwing at Braun Soriano because why?
Oh, right. It's baseball, you act like a tard, you will get thrown at.
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Haha the funny thing is you've already topped that number. And over the last 24 hours you have 9 posts compared to my 3. If you're going to try to make fun of how much I post on here you might want to consider how much you do first. Think about what you're saying before you say it. But like other people have said, when you do it it's hilarious and sarcastic and in good fun, but when I do it I'm insane and angry and have an obsession with the Cubs. Hilarious.
As for whether or not the Brewers should become sellers, I wish we had the players worth selling. At this point yes we could get something for JJ and Cory who need a RF and a SS, but they are worth about as little as they possibly can be right now, so personally I'd like to keep them until the offseason in hopes that they get something going and raise their trade value. Worst case scenario, they finish off the season as they have played all year and their trade value is the same as it is now.
We could try to trade Cameron, but how many teams want a 36 year old who has 2 months left on his contract? Same thing with Counsell (even less trade value...he's a solid roll player, not starter, at best) and Hoffman. We could try to get something for them because their contracts are up after this year (other than maybe Counsell, I don't know what his contract looks like), but we aren't going to get any future studs for any of them.
Obviously you don't trade Yovanni or Braun, and I would hope that those who were calling for Melvin to trade Prince would be quiet now. He's literally 50% of our offense. If we trade that away then not only do we have the worst pitching in the NL but we also have one of, if not the, worst offenses in the NL. Not to mention he is no longer a power hitter who hits .275-.280, and he's definitely not a defensive liability anymore. I hope we can somehow sign him to a long term deal, but with Boras his agent I'm not too optimistic. At least we control him for another year after his 2 year deal is up next year. If we trade him it better 2 years from now, not this year or next.
I haven't posted here in 4 weeks prior to yesterday. Your Cubs OCD brings you here daily. Apparently my sarcasm was missed when I was taking a page out of your book by posting meaningless July standings, rankings, etc...I'll stop with that nonsense due to the confusion.
Out of all the players mentioned I would think a team in the race could be interested in Counsell....a veteran with playoff experience that can play multiple positions, knows how to work the count and grind out tough ABs...could be worth a pitching prospect.
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So you're not going to come on here, bitch and moaning about throwing at Braun Soriano because why?
Oh, right. It's baseball, you act like a tard, you will get thrown at.
Haha I'll never get those poeple back in the day who complained about Dempster throwing at Braun. He threw high and tight on a ball Braun tried to bunt AND IT HIT HIS BAT!!!!!
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I don't want them to, but I wouldn't blame the Astros for throwing at his head tonight. That's how baseball works.
That's not how baseball works. You never, ever, ever intentionally throw at a guy's head just out of the sheer chance that something awful could happen. If you're going to hit somebody, you hit them in the lower back/butt/thigh area and erase any confusion about your motives. You're trying to send a message about classlessness/cockiness/revenge..etc but you're not trying to kill anybody.
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We could try to trade Cameron, but how many teams want a 36 year old who has 2 months left on his contract?
It only takes one, and I could guaranty you the Yankees would love to add Mike Cameron right now at the right price. Their OF defense is lousy, so he would instantly be a significant upgrade there. Would be an offensive upgrade over Cabrera as well. Likely to be a Class B FA after the season too, and lord knows they gave up plenty of draft picks last off season.
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For the record I am 120% ok with the Astros throwing at Soriano today.
+1. That was some serious bush league stuff on Soriano's part. I'd be pissed if Braun did something similar.
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That's not how baseball works. You never, ever, ever intentionally throw at a guy's head just out of the sheer chance that something awful could happen. If you're going to hit somebody, you hit them in the lower back/butt/thigh area and erase any confusion about your motives. You're trying to send a message about classlessness/cockiness/revenge..etc but you're not trying to kill anybody.
With known red ass Roy Oswalt on the mound I'm guessing he aims high.
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The Cubs are about to finalize a deal for Grabow and Gorzelany several media outlets are reporting.
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The Pirates will now be a AAA team the rest of the year. 5 opening day players are gone and 7 position players from the '08 opening day roster have been traded. I feel sorry for the fan base of Pittsburgh. With the current ownercrap, they will continue to have the league's lowest payroll and will always be a bottom feeder. They have had a ton of talent come through there but it is always gone by the time an average contract would be handed out.
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Billy Hall is being sent down to AAA. Hallelujah!! Now his spot on the bench can be taken by a player who actually has the ability to contribute something to the team. Hope he straightens out w/e is wrong with him (confidence, etc.) because if the Crew miraculously finds themselves creeping into the playoffs, not likely but in case they do, at one point of his career he was a quality player and it would be great if he could get back to anywhere near that ability.
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The Cubs are about to finalize a deal for Grabow and Gorzelany several media outlets are reporting.
Offical for Kevin Hart and two others.
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What a joke. The Pirates had left Gorzelany in AAA so they wouldn't have to pay him arbitration.
I don't know how Pirate fans do it. If they'd spend a little money they have a respectable team. Bay, McClouth, Ramirez, Grabow, Sanchez, etc.
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Someone from the Journal Sentinal was just on WGN radio with David Kaplan. He said the Brewers have labeled Escobar as untouchable and are trying to move J.J. Hardy. He also said the C.C. trade is one that happens for the Brewers once a decade.
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Someone from the Journal Sentinal was just on WGN radio with David Kaplan. He said the Brewers have labeled Escobar as untouchable and are trying to move J.J. Hardy. He also said the C.C. trade is one that happens for the Brewers once a decade.
I wish Hardy would accept a move to third. He prolly has below average power for that position but he's still a pretty solid all-around player despite his down year this year. Next year they could toss Gamel in right (or left, but then they would have to move Braun again) and put Hart in center (again, I think he's still pretty solid despite a down year as well). Not a world-beating team by any means but a pretty good bunch that would have a chance to contend for the division if more starting pitching was obtained. Of course, I'm sure this won't happen and they'll give Billy Hally a chance to rebound from his down year for the 3rd consecutive year.
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http://www.wrn.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=D11E4923-5056-B82A-373A7BD0E5A377BD
Hall's large salary is the only thing that's still keeping him on the Brewers roster. He's earning $6.8-million this year and will earn $8.4-million in 2010, the final year of his four year contract with the Brewers.
He's going down to AAA (i heard it was AA) to work on his swing
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Hart on the DL and Hall up to play in the outfield.
Brewer's season is over.
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Of the 59 games the Cubs have left, only 19 are against opponents with a .500 record or better.
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A nice outing by Gorzalany in his Cubs debut. Hopefully he can carry that over to teams not managed by Dusty Baker.
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Thank God for this. The Brewer fans all seemed to have left.
Ken Macha is crying again. First he wanted Dempster fined and suspended for throwing high and tight on a ball that hit Brauns bat. Now he wants Mota fined and suspended for throwing high and tight on Fielder.
Considering the Dodgers were retaliating for two of their own (including Manny) getting drilled Macha needs to shut the hell up. For being an "old school" manager he acts like a wimpy high priced free agent.
Fielder should be the one fined and suspended for his dumb ass tirade outside the Dodgers clubhouse which included swearing in front of fans.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090805&content_id=6254876&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090805&content_id=6254876&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)
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Fielder should be the one fined and suspended for his dumb ass tirade outside the Dodgers clubhouse which included swearing in front of fans.
Did he seriously think he could charge into the LA clubhouse and face Mota one on one? Stupid actions for what seemed like an appropriate response to Manny getting plunked. I am glad Mota did this, as last year in the playoffs against the Phillies Manny got hit twice, and the Dodgers didn't protect him. Good to see they have some balls this year. Looking forward to seeing how far they can go.
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Fielder should be the one fined and suspended for his dumb ass tirade outside the Dodgers clubhouse which included swearing in front of fans.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090805&content_id=6254876&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090805&content_id=6254876&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)
Oh no, not swearing! And to quote Helen Lovejoy "But what about the children?!!??"
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Did he seriously think he could charge into the LA clubhouse and face Mota one on one? Stupid actions for what seemed like an appropriate response to Manny getting plunked. I am glad Mota did this, as last year in the playoffs against the Phillies Manny got hit twice, and the Dodgers didn't protect him. Good to see they have some balls this year. Looking forward to seeing how far they can go.
Fielder should be fined for his tirade no doubt. But you don't throw at a guy to settle the score when you are up 13 runs in the 8th inning. I heard the audio from Vin Scully this morning and he basically said the same thing.
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Fielder should be fined for his tirade no doubt. But you don't throw at a guy to settle the score when you are up 13 runs in the 8th inning. I heard the audio from Vin Scully this morning and he basically said the same thing.
I agree to a certain extent, but when is a good time to throw at a guy? A close game in the 5th inning? I would think a game that is already out of hand would be a better time to get this out of the way and move on. Although with 2 outs in the 9th, as was the case last night, may be a little extreme.
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Watch the game and decide if there deserved to be retalliation and I am sure you will come to the conclusion that it was rediculous to throw at Fielder.
Cattalanatto got hit early in the game and there was no retalliation.
The Manny plunck was completely accidental... like most beanballs... what would happen if the Brewers retalliated everytime Kendall or Weeks got hit?
If the first place Dodgers really want to get into a throwing match I'm not sure the Brewers really have a problem with doing that at this point.
Macha wasn't crying, he said it was unnecessary, and he was right.
I understand the concept of protecting players, but there is a time and a place for throwing at people and this was not one of them.
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Macha wasn't crying, he said it was unnecessary, and he was right.
Saying it was unnecessary is one thing, however, Macha said he should be fined and suspended. I consider that crying. And this isn't even the first time.
Eariler this season Soriano got drilled in the helmet for acting like an ass after a homerun. When asked about it, Lou said, "It probably had something to do with his homerun last night". He didn't call it unnecessary or ask for the pitcher to be suspended or fined.
How did Ken Macha feel when the Brewers drilled Reed Johnson after he robbed Prince Fielder of a grand slam. Or when the Brewers drilled Derrek Lee after the Cubs hit Prince Fielder with a breakingball with a guy on base in a tie game.
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The pitch Ramirez got hit on was one that rode too far in. From a AAAA reliever. Not even close to intentional. Fielder and Macha have every right to be pissed off. What is the point in hitting Manny there, when you're just trying to get the freaking game over with? My favorite part is wanting to "protect" Manny. By doing that, aren't you opening him up to another one tonight?
That said, Prince's actions were ridiculous. But Mota, and Torre for that matter, should both be suspended. It happened in 07 when the Brewers got into their pennant race beanball war with St. Louis. Yost and McClung were both suspended for plunking Pujols.
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A nice outing by Gorzalany in his Cubs debut. Hopefully he can carry that over to teams not managed by Dusty Baker.
Agreed....great outing last night....he was only guaranteed 3 starts but he gives us a lot more flexibility with spot starts and/or out of the pen....so far, so good!
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Prince will be gone for a little while, but I'm just glad the heat from his thighs rubbing together didn't spark a wildfire with all the running around he was doing in the tunnels.
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"Retaliating" when you are up 13 runs in the 9th with 2 outs and nobody on your team has gotten hit on purpose is stupid.
Whining about the events after the game is stupid. All Macha should have said was that he didn't really see the need for it and that was it.
Charging after the pitcher who hit you intentionally is stupid, especially when you try to charge him in his own locker room and considering he only hit you in the leg/hip area.
Throwing at the helmet/head of anybody at anytime, even if they actually took out a polaroid out to take a shot of their homer, is extremely stupid and dangerous (both Braun and Soriano).
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Prince will be gone for a little while, but I'm just glad the heat from his thighs rubbing together didn't spark a wildfire with all the running around he was doing in the tunnels.
Somebody has to have video of this with all the media, cell phones, etc. walking around in the tunnels after the game. Absolutely hilarious...the visual of him running with his size 62 jersey untucked through the tunnels screaming with teammates chasing after him only to get to a closed door is priceless. Conjures up images of the Running of the Bulls in Pamplona. Talk about coming unglued......the Cubs have a used Gatorade dispenser for sale that can take a beating....could be the late season acquisition the Brewers need.
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Can we get Henry Sugar to analyze the relationship of Cubs and Brewers results, NL Central standings, and the number of Wade's posts here? :D
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http://cbs2.com/video/?id=110706@kcbs.dayport.com
I love prince, but he just needs to grow up. It's part of the game.
As Kendall said after the Pittsburgh incident: "Go to the mound, or go to 1st base...nothing else is necissary."
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Can we get Henry Sugar to analyze the relationship of Cubs and Brewers results, NL Central standings, and the number of Wade's posts here? :D
I'm sure we'll have some Cubs parody youtube clips coming our way at some point.
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The pitch Ramirez got hit on was one that rode too far in. From a AAAA reliever. Not even close to intentional. Fielder and Macha have every right to be pissed off. What is the point in hitting Manny there, when you're just trying to get the freaking game over with? My favorite part is wanting to "protect" Manny. By doing that, aren't you opening him up to another one tonight?
That said, Prince's actions were ridiculous. But Mota, and Torre for that matter, should both be suspended. It happened in 07 when the Brewers got into their pennant race beanball war with St. Louis. Yost and McClung were both suspended for plunking Pujols.
That's what my mind immediately went to...
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LaRussa baited Ned Yost into retaliating in 2007 and it worked. That should have cost Yost his job at the time.
I wish security didn't stop Prince from entering allowing for a 25 on 1 battle to take place. If an opposing player enters your clubhouse screaming I have to believe fists would be thrown.
MarqPTM, what is the coefficent of friction on Prince's thighs? High 0.8's I gotta believe.
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http://cbs2.com/video/?id=110706@kcbs.dayport.com
I love prince, but he just needs to grow up. It's part of the game.
As Kendall said after the Pittsburgh incident: "Go to the mound, or go to 1st base...nothing else is necissary."
In watching the video... It seems Martin is trying very hard not to laugh about it.
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I'm happy he attacked. This thread was dead.
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This thread was dead.
That's because the baseball season is 2 months too long.
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That's because the baseball season is 2 months too long.
Wrong. It was dead because the Brewers have faded back into obscurity as Packers camp started.
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and when the cubs weren't doing much, the thread was pretty dead as well other than wadesworld running his mouth abt stuff that didn't matter like an average near .700 in May. boy doesn't understand that it doesn't matter how many jabs you get in, it matters where you finish the season.
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Wrong.
Congratulations on acting 10 years old.
It was dead because the Brewers have faded back into obscurity as Packers camp started.
The Brewers are still getting their fair share of media. Through 53 games we're ranked 8th in attendance in MLB. That's far from obscurity for a small market team.
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The Brewers are awful. No debating that. Once again, however, the Cubs are the best of a terrible (though competitive) division. Enjoy your NLDS exit (and yes, I know the Brewers won't be making the playoffs).
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Once again you say? I realize it didn't get them anywhere but the Cubs had the best record in the National League last year. Please don't lump this season into last.
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The Brewers are awful. No debating that. Once again, however, the Cubs are the best of a terrible (though competitive) division. Enjoy your NLDS exit (and yes, I know the Brewers won't be making the playoffs).
I think the Cards will edge out the Cubs for the division this year, but both teams are still in the thick of the wild card race. The Brewers (or Houston for that matter) still aren't out of it, but they're getting close and I don't see a way the Crew can go on a run with the starting pitching they're currently tossing out there.
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The Brewers are awful. No debating that.
Only awful teams take 2 of 3 from the Dodgers.
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Mota throwing at Prince in that situation.....not necessary
Prince chariging the clubhouse....stupid
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I love how the media is portraying Prince being at the Clubhouse door pounding on it, ready to fight the whole Dodger team. His teammates and security personnel got him to turn away 30 feet from the door.
Nonethless, solid win last night. Go Crew!
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I love how the media is portraying Prince being at the Clubhouse door pounding on it, ready to fight the whole Dodger team. His teammates and security personnel got him to turn away 30 feet from the door.
Nonethless, solid win last night. Go Crew!
Technically, he was at the door. Granted that door, while an entrance to the clubhouse, was 30 feet away from the lockroom.
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Only awful teams take 2 of 3 from the Dodgers.
Agreed. The Astros and Padres did it too haha.
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Agreed. The Astros and Padres did it too haha.
You're almost correct, but nice try.
The Padres split a four game series in April (at home)
The Astros won the series 2-1 in April (at home) and split a four game series in mid-July.
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You're almost correct, but nice try.
The Padres split a four game series in April (at home)
The Astros won the series 2-1 in April (at home) and split a four game series in mid-July.
You are going to go to that much detail and leave out the fact the Dodgers took 2 of 3 in Milwaukee for a series split?
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You are going to go to that much detail and leave out the fact the Dodgers took 2 of 3 in Milwaukee for a series split?
I never said I wasn't wearing Brewers colored glasses...
EDIT: And with sortable schedules on team sites it didn't take more than 5 minutes to gather all that
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I never said I wasn't wearing Brewers colored glasses...
EDIT: And with sortable schedules on team sites it didn't take more than 5 minutes to gather all that
Gotta love the internet.
Little dissapointed to see the Dodgers drop 2 of 3 but you had to see the 1 run game coming after the 17 run output the night before. Oh well.
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Once again you say? I realize it didn't get them anywhere but the Cubs had the best record in the National League last year. Please don't lump this season into last.
You could make the argument that their record was a reflection of the rest of the division (even though the NL Central also produced the Wild Card). It was pretty clear that the team with the best record wasn't close to the best team last year.
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Many people believed the Cubs were the best team in the NL last year going into the playoffs. Granted they didn't show that in the postseason.
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Many people believed the Cubs were the best team in the NL last year going into the playoffs. Granted they didn't show that in the postseason.
Many people thought the earth was flat
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Many people thought the earth was flat
zing!
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You could make the argument that their record was a reflection of the rest of the division (even though the NL Central also produced the Wild Card). It was pretty clear that the team with the best record wasn't close to the best team last year.
You could make that argument but it would be wrong. The NL Central had 4 teams that were at least 10 games above .500 last year...best in the NL. Only the AL East could say the same. There is no denying the Cubs were the best team in the league going into the playoffs....also no denying they choked once they got there.
Why are we talking about last year again?
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zing!
/stands up, takes bow
//falls flat on face
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Zambrano now to the DL and Aramis is out for a few days as his shoulder is barking.
Somehow they've kept up despite the injuries. Hopefully they can get the split of the Rockies tonight!
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Also nice to see the Brewers pickup of David "Stormy" Wethers. Should be a nice addition along with Corey Patterson.
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Also nice to see the Brewers pickup of David "Stormy" Wethers. Should be a nice addition along with Corey Patterson.
The Brewers are rocking the boat that is the NL Central with the STORMY.
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Castro fired.
Hall DFA'd (finally).
Hardy optioned to AAA
They are doing some cleaning at Miller Park today...I am not upset with the moves so far.
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Castro fired.
Hall DFA'd (finally).
Hardy optioned to AAA
They are doing some cleaning at Miller Park today...I am not upset with the moves so far.
article: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/53047852.html
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So does that mean that the brewers are getting rid of/dropping the "future of the team" to bring up more people (including #1 prospect) that they will label as "future of the team"...
I know the brewers spent money on Braun to keep him in town, but until they spend money on some Free Agents that will actually make a difference (Suppan and Looper are not big Free Agents) they are going to hang with the division in the first half, and then just dwindle away
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Braun must really like Milwaukee because that deal he signed was a joke. I think he could make 2 or three time that even with the bad economy.
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He is top dog of the franchise now that CC isn't carrying them to the playoffs!
Some people will take an ego booster instead of more money!
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So does that mean that the brewers are getting rid of/dropping the "future of the team" to bring up more people (including #1 prospect) that they will label as "future of the team"...
I know the brewers spent money on Braun to keep him in town, but until they spend money on some Free Agents that will actually make a difference (Suppan and Looper are not big Free Agents) they are going to hang with the division in the first half, and then just dwindle away
It would be better if they could develop their own pitchers, but there is no help coming from the minors for a couple of years.
I like getting Escobar up here and telling him he has the rest of the year without Hardy looking over his shoulder. They can see what he's really got at this level before figuring out what to do. I wonder if Hardy will be at third next year, but then what do you do with Gamel? I think they will also need some seasoned outfielder for next year.
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It would be better if they could develop their own pitchers, but there is no help coming from the minors for a couple of years.
I like getting Escobar up here and telling him he has the rest of the year without Hardy looking over his shoulder. They can see what he's really got at this level before figuring out what to do. I wonder if Hardy will be at third next year, but then what do you do with Gamel? I think they will also need some seasoned outfielder for next year.
Get rid of Hart and put Gamel in left? (Even if they don't move Gamel to LF, still get rid of Hart).
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Get rid of Hart and put Gamel in left? (Even if they don't move Gamel to LF, still get rid of Hart).
LF? Is braun leaving?
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LF? Is braun leaving?
Lance is clearly confused :)
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Lance is clearly confused :)
Clearly, sorry I of course meant RF.
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About time things got shaken up.
starting lineup 2010
C - Jason Kendall
1B - Prince Fielder
2B - Rickie Weeks
SS - Alciedes Escobar
3B - Casey McGehee
LF - Matt Gamel
CF - Corey Hart
RF - Ryan Braun
Ryan Braun is moved to RF because he is more athletic than Gamel. Hardy is traded in the offseason for some pitching.
SP
1 - Yovanni Gallardo
2 - ?
3 - Braden Looper (God help us)
4 - Dave Bush
5 - Jeff Suppan
basically, we are screwed for pitching for a while.
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About time things got shaken up.
starting lineup 2010
C - Jason Kendall
1B - Prince Fielder
2B - Rickie Weeks
SS - Alciedes Escobar
3B - Casey McGehee
LF - Matt Gamel
CF - Corey Hart
RF - Ryan Braun
Ryan Braun is moved to RF because he is more athletic than Gamel. Hardy is traded in the offseason for some pitching.
SP
1 - Yovanni Gallardo
2 - ?
3 - Braden Looper (God help us)
4 - Dave Bush
5 - Jeff Suppan
basically, we are screwed for pitching for a while.
Cam should be back in CF, hes the best option.
Build trades around Hart and Hardy.
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Cam should be back in CF, hes the best option.
Build trades around Hart and Hardy.
How can you build trades around a guy that was just demoted to the minors and has proven that he isn't a top notch shortstop?
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How can you build trades around a guy that was just demoted to the minors and has proven that he isn't a top notch shortstop?
The only reason Hardy stayed in the lineup was because of his defense...let's say he turns his swing around, there will be plenty of interest in his glove.
He is one of the best defensive SS
EDIT: Kendall needs to be sent packing too. He might as well have a plastic bat
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How can you build trades around a guy that was just demoted to the minors and has proven that he isn't a top notch shortstop?
Because...
-Escobar is the SS of the future
-There is nowhere to play Hardy, he wont move to 3B
-He is a FA after the 2010 season.
What do you want to do with him?
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The only reason Hardy stayed in the lineup was because of his defense...let's say he turns his swing around, there will be plenty of interest in his glove.
He is one of the best defensive SS
EDIT: Kendall needs to be sent packing too. He might as well have a plastic bat
If you need to worry about getting offense from you catcher, then your whole team is forked. All a catcher needs to do is play defense and call a game, any offense you get from him is an added bonus.
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Because...
-Escobar is the SS of the future
-There is nowhere to play Hardy, he wont move to 3B
-He is a FA after the 2010 season.
What do you want to do with him?
Im saying you wouldn't get a teams top 5 prospects for someone like J.J. Hardy or even Corey Hart. Now that hardy has basically flunked in the majors (sans his Defense), his trade value is very small
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Braun must really like Milwaukee because that deal he signed was a joke. I think he could make 2 or three time that even with the bad economy.
Two or three times that? Your hyperbole is a joke.
I think this is probably a pretty reasonable estimation of what he would have gotten year-by-year. The total comes out to $80.4 million. His deal will end up being $51 million. He prolly left about $30 million on the table (obviously a rough estimation) but it was by far the biggest contract given to someone with less than one year of service (Tulowitzki's 7-$31 mill but one more year of service, Longoria 6-$17.5mill with the same service but will prolly end up 9-$44 mill if team options are picked up the last 3 year.)
Brewers-controlled year
2008 - 600k
2009 - 800k
2010 - 1 mill
Arbitration Eligible
2011 - 10 mil
2012 - 12 mil
2013 - 14 mil
Free Agent
2014 - 20 mil
2015 - 22 mil
Let's see if Escobar is really major league ready as so many like to claim. I have my doubts about his ability to hit on a consistent level in the majors (his fielding is already gold glove caliber). I'm not sure Hart or Hardy have any real trade value right now. The Crew's best option is prolly to keep both of them (who knows where Hardy will play) and hope that this was just a bad season and both can return to the all-star form they have flashed at times in the past.
If nothing else, these moves shake up a team that has played some pretty bad ball since July 1st. The Brewers really need to find some decent starting pitching somewhere, as well as a few more guys who can work the count, draw walks, and not constantly swing for the fences. Maybe the Crew can turn it into a good race with the Cubs for 2nd in the division :)
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If you need to worry about getting offense from you catcher, then your whole team is forked. All a catcher needs to do is play defense and call a game, any offense you get from him is an added bonus.
I see your point but he's absolutely atrocious...you wouldn't want to see what Rivera can do with regular AB's?
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Im saying you wouldn't get a teams top 5 prospects for someone like J.J. Hardy or even Corey Hart. Now that hardy has basically flunked in the majors (sans his Defense), his trade value is very small
Who said I expected them to get a team's top 5 prospects?
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I see your point but he's absolutely atrocious...you wouldn't want to see what Rivera can do with regular AB's?
Rivera is terrible. Salome would get the ABs, not Rivera.
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Who said I expected them to get a team's top 5 prospects?
Then what are you going to get in a trade for him? What would be the point of trading him if you get little to nothing in return?
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Rivera is terrible. Salome would get the ABs, not Rivera.
Point remains, I don't want to see Jason "the bean-eating hobo" Kendall in a Brewers uniform again next year.
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Then what are you going to get in a trade for him? What would be the point of trading him if you get little to nothing in return?
So its either top 5 prospects or nothing? Nothing else of value can be acquired?
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So its either top 5 prospects or nothing? Nothing else of value can be acquired?
That is what I am asking now, what do you expect to get in a trade with Hart and/or Hardy involved?
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That is what I am asking now, what do you expect to get in a trade with Hart and/or Hardy involved?
They will target ML starting pitching. They will use Hart/Hardy and various minor leaguers to make that happen.
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C - Jason Kendall Bad
1B - Prince Fielder
2B - Rickie Weeks Bad
SS - Alciedes Escobar Unproven
3B - Casey McGehee Will Be Bad
LF - Matt Gamel Unproven
CF - Corey Hart Bad
RF - Ryan Braun
SP
1 - Yovanni Gallardo
2 - ?
3 - Braden Looper Bad
4 - Dave Bush Bad
5 - Jeff Suppan Bad
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C - Jason Kendall Bad
1B - Prince Fielder
2B - Rickie Weeks Bad
SS - Alciedes Escobar Unproven
3B - Casey McGehee Will Be Bad
LF - Matt Gamel Unproven
CF - Corey Hart Bad
RF - Ryan Braun
SP
1 - Yovanni Gallardo
2 - ?
3 - Braden Looper Bad
4 - Dave Bush Bad
5 - Jeff Suppan Bad
It's weird that the Brewers, with all their terrible players, are only 3 1/2 games behind the mighty Cubs who feature all-stars at nearly every position. Some of the guys on this board are the biggest Cubs homers/babies/apologists I have every seen. I hope you have fun seeing your team, which boasts the 3rd highest opening-day payroll in the majors sit home for the playoffs. Good luck with all those injury-prone, old, and overpaid guys for the next few years. Oh wait, maybe you can declare bankruptcy and get rid of some of those horrible contracts. Hahahaha!
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It's weird that the Brewers, with all their terrible players, are only 3 1/2 games behind the mighty Cubs who feature all-stars at nearly every position. Some of the guys on this board are the biggest Cubs homers/babies/apologists I have every seen. I hope you have fun seeing your team, which boasts the 3rd highest opening-day payroll in the majors sit home for the playoffs. Good luck with all those injury-prone, old, and overpaid guys for the next few years. Oh wait, maybe you can declare bankruptcy and get rid of some of those horrible contracts. Hahahaha!
The funny thing is, they cant even dump the contracts if they successfully file for Bankruptcy.
They still will owe Soriano 80 mil total, through 2014.
They still will owe Ramirez 30 mil total, through 2011.
They still will owe Demptster 40 mil total, through 2012.
Have fun with that!
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Here's the batting order I'd like to see for next year:
1. Lopez 2B
2. Weeks RF
3. Braun LF
4. Fielder 1B
5. McGehee 3B
6. Hart CF
7. Escobar SS
8. Salome C
SP
1. Gallardo
2. Send a package centered around Gamel and Hardy for a solid #2 pitcher
3. Hopefully sign somebody actually worth signing as a solid #3 pitcher
4. Parra
5. Bush or Looper
Villanueva and Bush or Looper in long relief, Stetter and Coffee, and then Hoffman closer
By the way TT, I love "will be bad" for McGehee. You know that? I wish I had that kind of view for the future that you have. Here's a question for you, then. Going into next season, the Cubs will have gone 6 years without a win in the playoffs...will they finally win a game in next year's playoffs? The way Cubs fans talk about how great they are on this forum, you'd think they'd have won at least 1 playoffs series in the last 6 years, let alone 1 game, but no...
And if Weeks returns to the form he was before he got injured this season, is he really bad?
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Here's the batting order I'd like to see for next year:
1. Lopez 2B
2. Weeks RF
3. Braun LF
4. Fielder 1B
5. McGehee 3B
6. Hart CF
7. Escobar SS
8. Salome C
SP
1. Gallardo
2. Send a package centered around Gamel and Hardy for a solid #2 pitcher
3. Hopefully sign somebody actually worth signing as a solid #3 pitcher
4. Parra
5. Bush or Looper
Villanueva and Bush or Looper in long relief, Stetter and Coffee, and then Hoffman closer
By the way TT, I love "will be bad" for McGehee. You know that? I wish I had that kind of view for the future that you have. Here's a question for you, then. Going into next season, the Cubs will have gone 6 years without a win in the playoffs...will they finally win a game in next year's playoffs? The way Cubs fans talk about how great they are on this forum, you'd think they'd have won at least 1 playoffs series in the last 6 years, let alone 1 game, but no...
And if Weeks returns to the form he was before he got injured this season, is he really bad?
Weeks in RF?
I would suggest not calling anyone out, if you are going to go on and write something like that...
Cam continues to be the best option for the Brewers in CF, he should be back for 1 more season.
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Weeks in RF?
I would suggest not calling anyone out, if you are going to go on and write something like that...
Cam continues to be the best option for the Brewers in CF, he should be back for 1 more season.
What's wrong with Weeks in RF? If we can resign Lopez and have those 2 at the top of the order, with Lopez as the better 2B, why not? Haudricourt wants Lopez at 2B and Weeks in CF. If we're going to move Braun to the OF, and some people want to suggest Gamel to the OF, then why not Weeks if we have a better defensive 2B?
By the way, adding to JJ's trade value is that if he doesn't play the next 20 days in the MLB he is controlled by the team for an extra year.
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What's wrong with Weeks in RF? If we can resign Lopez and have those 2 at the top of the order, with Lopez as the better 2B, why not? Haudricourt wants Lopez at 2B and Weeks in CF. If we're going to move Braun to the OF, and some people want to suggest Gamel to the OF, then why not Weeks if we have a better defensive 2B?
By the way, adding to JJ's trade value is that if he doesn't play the next 20 days in the MLB he is controlled by the team for an extra year.
You act like moving players around is as easy as in the video games. Rickie is not RF material, he isnt really CF material either. Just because he is fast, doesnt mean his game will translate to the OF.
Keep Cam around for 1 more year, while Cain bounces back from knee surgery.
Hardy will still be a FA after 2010. He wont miss more than 20 days, he will be back Sept 1st. They arent going to screw with his service time like that.
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I don't see Cameron staying around. Melvin was trying pretty hard to unload that contract this past offseason. I think Bourgeois is getting the audition for the role next year. If Melvin can pay him 500k to hit .240 and steal 30 bases he's going to take the subpar defense and lack of power instead of paying Cameron 8 mil. If Bourgeois, Escobar, Weeks, and Iribarren are all around next year you have to think they won't stay dead last in stolen bases. Put players like Braun, Fielder, Gamel, and McGehee around that speed, keep solid reserves like Counsell and Cattalanato and you can put together some decent lineups that don't cost much...in other words, Doug Melvin has no excuse for not spending some money to get pitchers that aren't washed up or AA material. IMO, Weeks is the biggest question mark. He was on a great pace before getting hurt, but it took two years to recover from the injury last time.
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You act like moving players around is as easy as in the video games. Rickie is not RF material, he isnt really CF material either. Just because he is fast, doesnt mean his game will translate to the OF.
Keep Cam around for 1 more year, while Cain bounces back from knee surgery.
Hardy will still be a FA after 2010. He wont miss more than 20 days, he will be back Sept 1st. They arent going to screw with his service time like that.
Never said it was easy, just think that if you can have Lopez leading off and Weeks batting 2nd in front of Fielder and Braun instead of Weeks batting 1 and Counsel or Cameron batting 2 I think it's an upgrade.
I've never thought Weeks was a leadoff hitter, and I think he'd be great in either the 2 or 5 spots. 2 because he'd provide more speed on the basepaths for Braun and Fielder and 5 because Braun and Fielder get on base and he has the ability to drive guys in. Right now the Brewers rely on Braun and Fielder hitting home runs for their runs, and if not then those 2 get left on base and we don't produce many runs. That's the most frustrating thing about the Brewers offense. You have Braun and Fielder who bat .300+ and put up the big power numbers, and other than that you have guys like Cameron, Hart, Hardy, etc. who bat low-mid .200s and swing for the fence every time up. I'm just tired of having a leadoff double and then that guy still standing on 2nd at the end of the inning after a strikeout, popout to the infield or right field, and then another strikeout or groundout. It's terrible baseball and it's how the Brewers have played for far too long. How often have we seen the Brewers with the tying run on 1st and no outs in the 9th, and Macha has no confidence in bunting him down to 2nd because we have guys who either hit a home run (which would take the lead) or strikeout/pop out (which leaves the guy on 1st and would leave the guy on 2nd anyway, so there's no point to bunt him over)? Yes, the pitching has been atrocious, but even if it was great, the offense lives and dies by the long ball, and (like last year) that might be good enough to get you into the playoffs, but it will never get you a World Series. The dynamic of the offense has to change, and a great start to that would be to have Lopez and Weeks at the top of the order. They're guys who will get on base and be able to run, which they NEVER do now.
I think with both Lopez and Weeks at the top of the order the whole lineup improves a ton, as the whole lineup changes from completely relying on power to being able to do more things, and moving different guys to different spots, where they fit better. The problem is, Lopez and Weeks are both strictly 2B right now. If Escobar is as good defensively as he is made out to be, you can't move him from SS, and neither Weeks nor Lopez has a great enough arm to play a great 3B, plus they have good range so you take that strength away from them by putting them in at 3B. So essentially 1 of the 2 would most likely have to move out of the infield if they are both going to be on the team, and I feel as though I would rather have Weeks out there and as a corner OF instead of in CF.
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Lopez can still play some 3B and SS. It is more likely that he takes Counsel's role as the Utility Infielder, than moving Weeks all over the place.
My ideal lineup for the 2010 season, assuming/hoping Hardy/Hart are moved for some arms.
C - Kendall/Salome
1B - Fielder
2b - Weeks/Lopez
3B - Mcghee/Lopez
SS - Escobar/Lopez
LF - Gamel
CF - Cameron
RF - Braun
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Lopez can still play some 3B and SS. It is more likely that he takes Counsel's role as the Utility Infielder, than moving Weeks all over the place.
My ideal lineup for the 2010 season, assuming/hoping Hardy/Hart are moved for some arms.
C - Kendall/Salome
1B - Fielder
2b - Weeks/Lopez
3B - Mcghee/Lopez
SS - Escobar/Lopez
LF - Gamel
CF - Cameron
RF - Braun
Fair enough. I guess I just don't understand why you think Gamel could move into the OF but Weeks wouldn't be able to do so, and I'd personally rather have Lopez in there every day over Gamel. Plus I think we could get a lot if we include Gamel in a trade, as I think he has by far a higher trade value than either Hart or Hardy, and we need the arms. Unfortunately I think the offense is going to look very similar to what it did this year and not many moves will be made. We will see though.
Also, from JSOnline:
"Hardy needs a full season this year to remain on track to be a free agent after next season. But, if the Brewers keep him in Nashville until rosters can be expanded Sept. 1, Hardy will have spent exactly 20 days there and lose that service time.
Should the Brewers opt to trade Hardy before next season, potential suitors would be inclined to give more in return if he can’t be a free agent until after 2011. The flip side is that Hardy’s trade value was not enhanced by being sent to the minors."
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And by the way, really classy fans out there in Wrigley field, throwing a cup of beer on Shane Victorino as he catches a fly ball. At least it was only 1 this time instead of the 10 that were thrown at Braun earlier this year.
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Why did you include Aramis in our bad contracts? He is the MVP of this team as you can see from the last two series where he hasn't played and when he was out eariler.
Considering the injuries we've had I think 3 games up on the Brewers is amazing.
If you think McGhee will be good next year good luck with that.
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Considering the injuries we've had I think 3 games up on the Brewers is amazing.
If you think McGhee will be good next year good luck with that.
Haha so it's amazing to be up 3 games on a team with 3 good players on it (according to you)? OK, makes perfect sense now. I suppose the Brewers didn't have any injuries at all this year. Rickie Weeks hasn't been out for the season since the end of May, Corey Hart hasn't been out, Suppan isn't out, Bush hasn't been out. No injuries for those Brewers. It's comical how naive Cubs fans are. The Cubs are the only team in the MLB who has had any injuries this year.
And did you expect McGehee to be good this year?
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Considering the injuries we've had I think 3 games up on the Brewers is amazing.
Keeping leaning on that crutch. Everybody has injuries. Look at the Cards: Glaus has been out the whole year. Ludwick & Ankiel both had stints on the dl (although Ankiel isn't much of a loss). Carpenter and Lohse have both missed a handful of starts. The Brewers have been pretty healthy for their keys guys (Fielder, Braun, Gallardo) but they lost Weeks for most of the season (obviously not as big of a loss as Glaus or Ramirez). Now Hart is out for the season, Bush has been out for almost 2 months, and Suppan is also on the dl (also not huge losses, but all guys that were expected to play everyday)
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And by the way, really classy fans out there in Wrigley field, throwing a cup of beer on Shane Victorino as he catches a fly ball. At least it was only 1 this time instead of the 10 that were thrown at Braun earlier this year.
You forgot to mention that the jagoff pointed to an innocent guy next to him so he got tossed...
From deadspin: http://deadspin.com/5336293/stay-classy-cubs-fans-update?skyline=true&s=x
Let's see here...
Kanye glasses, check
Frat boy sweatband, check
V-neck tight t-shirt, check.
This guy's a real winner.
EDIT: I forgot to mention the off-center tipping of his hat...what a douche
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Again, moving guys around to different positions isnt as easy as you make it sound. It is more feasible with Gamel, because he is younger and has not settled into 3B at the ML level...as Weeks is at 2B.
Remember what happened to Bill Hall when he moved from Utility IF to CF? Everyone just assumed he could make the switch, and it didn't bode well for anyone. His defense was bad, and it was the beginning of the end for his success at the plate.
As for JJ, I HIGHLY doubt they mess with his service time. It just wouldnt be a good thing to do.
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As for JJ, I HIGHLY doubt they mess with his service time. It just wouldnt be a good thing to do.
That would be a pretty cold thing to do, I agree.
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Lopez can still play some 3B and SS. It is more likely that he takes Counsel's role as the Utility Infielder, than moving Weeks all over the place.
My ideal lineup for the 2010 season, assuming/hoping Hardy/Hart are moved for some arms.
C - Kendall/Salome
1B - Fielder
2b - Weeks/Lopez
3B - Mcghee/Lopez
SS - Escobar/Lopez
LF - Gamel
CF - Cameron
RF - Braun
No one has mentioned Iberrian. Do people think he need another year in the minors?
My guess is that Lopez is gone.
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I think that the Brewers may mess with Hardy's service time if he refused to switch to 3rd base. I could see Melvin deciding that Escobar is the SS of the future for the Brewers and telling JJ that he would be most valuable at 3B. So if JJ refused the switch, then they're gonna ship him out and get higher trade value with that extra year of contract control.
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Exactly Brew City.
I have no idea why the Brewers wouldn't do what is their best interests considering he is apparently refusing a move to 3B.
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Exactly Brew City.
I have no idea why the Brewers wouldn't do what is their best interests considering he is apparently refusing a move to 3B.
I don't think that's a good precedent to set. If other players see stuff like that then it makes them question whether the Brewers are a team that they want to play for. Hardy has given the Brewers some good years and I think he'll still be a productive player. He slumped badly this year but there's no reason that he can't come back around and be the player he was the last few years. If he's in the Brewers plans going forward then great, if not then try to unload him; but I don't think they should do something as cold as cost him a year of service time (and probably $5 mill or so down the road).
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Hardy could be in the Brewers' plans if he agrees to move to 3b. If not, then screw him. With all the time and $ they have invested in him, he needs to take one for the team and do what the boss wants him to do.
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Exactly Brew City.
I have no idea why the Brewers wouldn't do what is their best interests considering he is apparently refusing a move to 3B.
Commissioners Office
Players Union
Neither will be happy if they do this to JJ.
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A manager can't use injuries as an excuse but a fan sure can. Find me a single team who has had more injuries than the Cubs. They've had their complete roster together for 2 games this year.
Pitchers:
- Lilly
- Dempster
- Harden (2)
- Zambrano (2)
- Guzman (2)
- Patton
- Fox
- Waddel
Position Players:
- Ramirez
- Soto
- Bradley
- Johnson (2)
- Miles
- Blanco
- Freel
As for the guys throwing beer lets not forget the Brewer fans who threw a beer bottle at a bus and got their asses kicked for it. There are morons in every fandom. Once walking home down Wisconsin Avenue after a Cubs game some Brewers fans threw a beer bottle out of the window at us. Other put hot coals under Cubs fans tires. I can go on but I think you understand that all teams have dumb fans.
Funny how wadesworld returns once the Cubs start losing some games huh haha?
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As for the guys throwing beer lets not forget the Brewer fans who threw a beer bottle at a bus and got their asses kicked for it. There are morons in every fandom. Once walking home down Wisconsin Avenue after a Cubs game some Brewers fans threw a beer bottle out of the window at us. Other put hot coals under Cubs fans tires. I can go on but I think you understand that all teams have dumb fans.
Who cares what fans do to each other? You are right, there are d-bags everywhere.
However, none of those instances you described involved the game itself. There is a huge difference between fans going after each other, and a dumbass fan interfering with the game like that guy did.
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Commissioners Office
Players Union
Neither will be happy if they do this to JJ.
So now you can't send a guy down to the minors for three weeks when he's hitting .220 without hearing from the commissioner and the union?
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So now you can't send a guy down to the minors for three weeks when he's hitting .220 without hearing from the commissioner and the union?
Not if it is deemed as an attempt to screw with his service time...which Hardy and his Agent will definately make a case for, if it comes to that.
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As for the guys throwing beer lets not forget the Brewer fans who threw a beer bottle at a bus and got their asses kicked for it. There are morons in every fandom. Once walking home down Wisconsin Avenue after a Cubs game some Brewers fans threw a beer bottle out of the window at us. Other put hot coals under Cubs fans tires. I can go on but I think you understand that all teams have dumb fans.
Funny how wadesworld returns once the Cubs start losing some games huh haha?
...and when I come home from up north...haha. Plus I probably would've come back when the Cubs lost twice in a row to the Reds 5 days ago if that were the case, not wait until they had lost 6 of 7. But go ahead TT, you and PTM know exactly where I am and what games I watch and why I am not posting on here when I am not. I'd still like to know, with your vision of the future, if the Cubs will win their first game in the playoffs after 6 years next year.
Oh no, fans doing things to other fans after games. I'd have to say it's a little bit different for a fan to throw stuff at a player while a ball is in play. I could be wrong though.
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A manager can't use injuries as an excuse but a fan sure can. Find me a single team who has had more injuries than the Cubs. They've had their complete roster together for 2 games this year.
Pitchers:
- Lilly
- Dempster
- Harden (2)
- Zambrano (2)
- Guzman (2)
- Patton
- Fox
- Waddel
Position Players:
- Ramirez
- Soto
- Bradley
- Johnson (2)
- Miles
- Blanco
- Freel
As for the guys throwing beer lets not forget the Brewer fans who threw a beer bottle at a bus and got their asses kicked for it. There are morons in every fandom. Once walking home down Wisconsin Avenue after a Cubs game some Brewers fans threw a beer bottle out of the window at us. Other put hot coals under Cubs fans tires. I can go on but I think you understand that all teams have dumb fans.
Funny how wadesworld returns once the Cubs start losing some games huh haha?
The Cards have had just as many injuries as the Cubs.
Combined starts for the top 4 starting pitchers:
Cards - 81
Cubs - 79 (Cubs have played 4 less games)
The last 4 guys are middle relief pictchers, none are a big loss. Guzman has been pitching suprising well this year, but has still thrown 50 innings which is about the same amount he would have pitched if he had never gone on the dl.
Missed Games:
Cubs
Ramirez - 79
Bradley - 18 (to be expected, the guy is a huge injury risk)
Soto - Tough to say how many starts he's missed, but prolly around 30, however is he even much of an upgrade over Hill at this point with the way he's swinging the bat?
Johnson - Tough to say as he's in a platoon, prolly about 25
Miles, Blanco, and Freel are all junk and none are significant losses.
Total - estimated about 152
Cards
Glaus - 116 and counting
Ludwick - 20
DeRosa - 13 (Cards only)
Ankiel - Same as Johson, tough to say how many games since they switch up the outfield, but prolly about 10
They've had some other garbage guys miss time as well (Barden, Ryan, Greene)
Total - estimated about 149
Never let facts get in the way of a good excuse.
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Never let facts get in the way of a good excuse.
Your facts proved my point that the Cards have had fewer injuries! I didn't say it was by a wide margin.
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Your facts proved my point that the Cards have had fewer injuries! I didn't say it was by a wide margin.
Haha, well I guess you got me there ;D
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The person that threw the bottle at you probably knew you TT and your complete jagoff attitude when it comes to the Cubs. No offense of course... ;D
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This thread certainly has died...much like the Brewers' and Cubs' seasons.
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This thread certainly has died...much like the Brewers' and Cubs' seasons.
Fact.
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Yeah it's no fun when both teams suck.
Robin Yount was overrated. Let's see if that can stir up anything.
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Yeah it's no fun when both teams suck.
Robin Yount was overrated. Let's see if that can stir up anything.
You can say what you want about Robin but Robinade brand lemonade is delish!
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Yeah it's no fun when both teams suck.
It's fun if you're a Cards fan!!
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It's fun if you're a Cards fan!!
Meh, they still suck. Can't say I didn't call it from day 1 though...
In all honesty I don't think the Cards can hang with either the Dodgers or the Phillies. IMO, those two are the class of the NL by far, and that will be a hell of a NLCS. I pray that the Cards don't prove me wrong and win the WS or something.
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Yeah, with the 2009 campaign in the books, perhaps we will all unite to derive whatever enjoyment we can out of hating of that miserable douche bag Larussa and the Cardinals.
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If Robin Yount is overrated then Ryan Sandberg and Ron Santo are crumb bums.
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Pretty Close Numbers. Sandberg wins on everything except hits. Tie in batting average.
Sandberg:
282 HR
.285 AVG
2386 H
344 SB
.795 OPS
.344 OBP
Yount:
251 HR
.285 AVG
3142 H
271 SB
.772 OPS
.342 OBP
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Robin Yount was overrated. Let's see if that can stir up anything.
You've gotta do better than that. Clearly you don't believe that. You need to be more subtle, and argue something that is at least somewhat feasible.
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Pretty Close Numbers. Sandberg wins on everything except hits. Tie in batting average.
Sandberg:
282 HR
.285 AVG
2386 H
344 SB
.795 OPS
.344 OBP
Yount:
251 HR
.285 AVG
3142 H
271 SB
.772 OPS
.342 OBP
So you are saying Yount was better for longer?
thanks :)
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My goodness man are you blind? Sandberg has better numbers in everything but hits. Sandberg hands down. Here's some more stats.
Sandberg:
All-Star Games: 10
Gold Gloves: 9
MVPs: 1
Silver Sluggers: 7
Yount:
All-Star Games: 3
Gold Gloves: 1
MVPs: 2
Silver Sluggers: 3
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Meh, they still suck. Can't say I didn't call it from day 1 though...
In all honesty I don't think the Cards can hang with either the Dodgers or the Phillies. IMO, those two are the class of the NL by far, and that will be a hell of a NLCS. I pray that the Cards don't prove me wrong and win the WS or something.
Yeah, the Cards going 5-2 against LA since the Holliday trade sure showed they weren't in the same class as them. The Dodgers starting pitching is pretty thin. I'm predicting Stl vs Phi in the NLCS.
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My goodness man are you blind? Sandberg has better numbers in everything but hits. Sandberg hands down. Here's some more stats.
Sandberg:
All-Star Games: 10
Gold Gloves: 9
MVPs: 1
Silver Sluggers: 7
Yount:
All-Star Games: 3
Gold Gloves: 1
MVPs: 2
Silver Sluggers: 3
Sandberg was a better player than Yount, especially for his position. There's really no debating that. Molitor was prolly a better overall hitter than Ryno but he played DH nearly half of his games and was never known as a good fielder even when he did play a position so I would have to give Sanberg the edge there as well. It's also a joke that Dawson isn't in the HOF, 250 more hits and he prolly would have been in on either the 1st or 2nd ballot.
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Yeah, the Cards going 5-2 against LA since the Holliday trade sure showed they weren't in the same class as them. The Dodgers starting pitching is pretty thin. I'm predicting Stl vs Phi in the NLCS.
As an LA fan I think the best case scenario would be to finish first in the NL with the Braves winning the WC. (As I don't think divisional opponents can play in the first round) This way they would only have to beat Philly or STL not both. And yes their rotation is looking thin, hopefully Billingsley can return to form soon. Weaver has been huge in eating some innings recently and anything they get out of Haeger (young knuckleballer) or Padilla (just signed to a minor league deal) is really just "house money". I would be comfortable with a rotation for the playoffs of Billingsley - Wolf - Kershaw - Weaver. Now Broxton's recent problems are another issue...
Also, not that anyone else cares....
Manny last night was 3/4 and saw a total of 5 pitches. I am not sure there is a stat for this, but to me that seems like an incredibly low pitch count for 4 ABs.
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As an LA fan I think the best case scenario would be to finish first in the NL with the Braves winning the WC. (As I don't think divisional opponents can play in the first round) This way they would only have to beat Philly or STL not both. And yes their rotation is looking thin, hopefully Billingsley can return to form soon. Weaver has been huge in eating some innings recently and anything they get out of Haeger (young knuckleballer) or Padilla (just signed to a minor league deal) is really just "house money". I would be comfortable with a rotation for the playoffs of Billingsley - Wolf - Kershaw - Weaver. Now Broxton's recent problems are another issue...
Also, not that anyone else cares....
Manny last night was 3/4 and saw a total of 5 pitches. I am not sure there is a stat for this, but to me that seems like an incredibly low pitch count for 4 ABs.
That's another one of the good things about the Cubs fade for the Cards is that there isn't really any chance (unless the Cubs go on an absolute tear) for the wild card to come out of the central, meaning they won't be forced to play another division champ like either Philly or LAD (although that could still happen). There's a ton of playoff scenarios so it doesn't make sense to run through them at this point but if the Cards can stay hot and end up with the best record in the NL (currently 2.5 gb of LA and 1.5 gb of PHI) they could assure themselves of a Phi-LA matchup in the division series.
In the playoffs, lots of times you can get by with only 3 starters. They've got 3 pretty good ones in Wolf, Billingsley, and Kershaw but they can't always depend on those guys going deep into games due to high pitch counts (especially Kershaw). There's a lot of time remaining for them to sort it out and figure how they want to set their pitching for the playoffs (of course that division lead is getting a little tighter so I shouldn't put the cart before the horse I guess).
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Yeah, the Cards going 5-2 against LA since the Holliday trade sure showed they weren't in the same class as them. The Dodgers starting pitching is pretty thin. I'm predicting Stl vs Phi in the NLCS.
You played them in 2 regular season series in which the Dodgers haven't been playing well for quite some time. They're 10-15 in their last 25 games. I'll put my money on the Dodgers returning to form, ending up with the best record in the NL, and playing in the NLCS. Yes, the Cards have an advantage at starting pitching, but in an NLDS you only need a 3 man rotation. Wolf, Kershaw, and Billingsley are a pretty solid 3, and they won't hold back on pitch count when it comes to the playoffs.
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You played them in 2 regular season series in which the Dodgers haven't been playing well for quite some time. They're 10-15 in their last 25 games. I'll put my money on the Dodgers returning to form, ending up with the best record in the NL, and playing in the NLCS. Yes, the Cards have an advantage at starting pitching, but in an NLDS you only need a 3 man rotation. Wolf, Kershaw, and Billingsley are a pretty solid 3, and they won't hold back on pitch count when it comes to the playoffs.
I'll take my chances with the team that has (at this point arguably) better starting pitching, a better bullpen, and a better lineup but you never know what will happen in the playoffs (see '06 Cards). I'm not sure how the fact that the Dodgers are playing bad lately is actually an excuse to say that the Cards aren't as good as them. Last I checked, all 162 games count the same and the teams are trending in opposite directions.
Of course they aren't going to hold back on pitch counts during the playoffs, but when you have nearly 100 pitched through 4 innings, you're obviously not gong to be able to make it through even 7 innings and good lineups will pounce on your bullpen in the playoffs. The Dodgers have some good young arms, but those same guys tend to get some pretty high pitch counts at times.
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The Dodgers have some good young arms, but those same guys tend to get some pretty high pitch counts at times.
Kershaw especially... He has been all over the place lately with a ton of walks (20 in his last 6 starts) all losses for the Dodgers.
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Kershaw especially... He has been all over the place lately with a ton of walks (20 in his last 6 starts) all losses for the Dodgers.
The positive thing with some of Kershaw's short starts lately is that he isn't on pace to highly exceed his prior high of innings pitch:
07: 169 ip
08: 139.2 ip (estimated 8 starts left ~ about 40 ip, toal 179.2)
When guys really exceed their high of ip by a lot (50+) during the regular season that can be a sign that they will start to wear down at the end of the regular season and during the playoffs. I think if Kershaw can tighten his control a little bit, he can be a real asset to them down the stretch.
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I'll take my chances with the team that has (at this point arguably) better starting pitching, a better bullpen, and a better lineup but you never know what will happen in the playoffs (see '06 Cards). I'm not sure how the fact that the Dodgers are playing bad lately is actually an excuse to say that the Cards aren't as good as them. Last I checked, all 162 games count the same and the teams are trending in opposite directions.
Of course they aren't going to hold back on pitch counts during the playoffs, but when you have nearly 100 pitched through 4 innings, you're obviously not gong to be able to make it through even 7 innings and good lineups will pounce on your bullpen in the playoffs. The Dodgers have some good young arms, but those same guys tend to get some pretty high pitch counts at times.
Fair enough. The only problem I have with this post is "and a better lineup." You really think the Cardinals lineup is better than the Dodgers? Almost the whole Dodgers lineup bats between .280-.300 and almost everyone has 60-70 RBI. Their number 8 hitter is batting .295 with 57 RBI. I think that says something when the number 8 hitter in a lineup has almost 60 RBI.
Also, I bring up the fact that the Dodgers haven't been playing well lately because every team is going to have a cold streak throughout such a long season, and I wouldn't expect a team like the Dodgers to keep up the pace that they are on right now (10-15 in the last 25). If you truly believe that the Dodgers will continue to play as poorly as they are and continue to have that type of record, then more power to you and then you will be right, but the Dodgers won't even make the playoffs if that is the case. I just don't see them playing that poorly for the rest of the year. They will get back on pace, and I think they're the best team in the MLB.
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Sandberg was a better player than Yount, especially for his position. There's really no debating that. Molitor was prolly a better overall hitter than Ryno but he played DH nearly half of his games and was never known as a good fielder even when he did play a position so I would have to give Sanberg the edge there as well. It's also a joke that Dawson isn't in the HOF, 250 more hits and he prolly would have been in on either the 1st or 2nd ballot.
Sometimes I think the HOF has been watered down over the years. Every so often Boers & Bernstein will go through and "clean up" the HOF of various sports. They have a critera where if you have to think about wheter he should be in or not then he shouldnt be. Football's HOF is a joke since they put the same amount of people in every year.
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http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2009_08_23_slnmlb_sdnmlb_1&mode=wrap
View the play "Pujols and Venable have words on the infield."
I can't stand Pujols (or the Cardinals for that matter...they're quickly rising to Cubs level for me). Pujols thinks everyone is out to get him and that everyone else is at fault. All he does when the Brewers play the Cardinals is complain about Braun watching his home runs too much (which he does at times) and yet he watches EVERY SINGLE HOME RUN like it was his home run against Brad Lidge in the NLCS. It's absolutely ridiculous. And then he takes offense to Carlos Villanueva yelling and pumping his fist after getting out of a jam and confronts him in between innings. All you hear from their commentators and their players is how nobody in the league likes the Brewers and that they are the most classless team ever and this is all based on the fact that the Brewers untuck their jerseys after a win as a tribute to Mike Cameron's dad, and Cameron is one of the classiest guys in the league.
And this is coming from the franchise who has a manager who fell asleep behind the wheel at an intersection because he was so drunk and couldn't even recite his ABCs and with a catcher who disagrees with a ball/strike call so he decides to undress on the field. I can't stand the franchise anymore. Until they quit acting in the ways that they talk down (so not arguing with calls, not watching home runs, etc.) they really shouldn't talk bad about other teams doing the same thing.
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Also, I bring up the fact that the Dodgers haven't been playing well lately because every team is going to have a cold streak throughout such a long season, and I wouldn't expect a team like the Dodgers to keep up the pace that they are on right now (10-15 in the last 25). If you truly believe that the Dodgers will continue to play as poorly as they are and continue to have that type of record, then more power to you and then you will be right, but the Dodgers won't even make the playoffs if that is the case. I just don't see them playing that poorly for the rest of the year. They will get back on pace, and I think they're the best team in the MLB.
I don't think they're even the best team in Los Angeles....neither do the power ratings, the RPI or the standings. But, they play in the NL which means they have a cakewalk to the World Series compared to the other Los Angeles team. I don't see the Dodgers winning the World Series against anyone, especially the Yankees.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/powerrankings
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rpi
http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/group/9
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I don't think they're even the best team in Los Angeles....neither do the power ratings, the RPI or the standings. But, they play in the NL which means they have a cakewalk to the World Series compared to the other Los Angeles team. I don't see the Dodgers winning the World Series against anyone, especially the Yankees.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/powerrankings
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rpi
http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/group/9
The Dodgers will have to go through either the Cards, Phils or possibly both to get to the playoffs. That is no cakewalk. The Angels could end up playing the Tigers and then the Rangers to get to the World Series (lots of possibilities). I would say that would be a cakewalk. It's way too early to say anybody has an easy road to the playoffs.
Also, I can't believe you actually used rpi as support for your argument. I know its an objective formula, but anything that puts the Seattle Mariners, who are 8 gb of the Cards and have a -52 run differential compared to +64 for the Cards, needs to be tweaked a lot. Btw, the LAD have the highest pythagorean (expected w-l record based purely on run differential) in the bigs at 76-49 while the Angels come in 8th at 67-55 (just to show a measure that you failed to include but has quickly become one of the favored metrics of the sabermetric guys). When two teams are separated by 1.5 games in the standings through 120+ games I wouldn't say one is clearly better than the other (although one is playing better right now, which is basically what the power rankings measure).
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2009-standings.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2009-standings.shtml)
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The Dodgers will have to go through either the Cards, Phils or possibly both to get to the playoffs. That is no cakewalk. The Angels could end up playing the Tigers and then the Rangers to get to the World Series (lots of possibilities). I would say that would be a cakewalk. It's way too early to say anybody has an easy road to the playoffs.
Also, I can't believe you actually used rpi as support for your argument. I know its an objective formula, but anything that puts the Seattle Mariners, who are 8 gb of the Cards and have a -52 run differential compared to +64 for the Cards, needs to be tweaked a lot. Btw, the LAD have the highest pythagorean (expected w-l record based purely on run differential) in the bigs at 76-49 while the Angels come in 8th at 67-55 (just to show a measure that you failed to include but has quickly become one of the favored metrics of the sabermetric guys). When two teams are separated by 1.5 games in the standings through 120+ games I wouldn't say one is clearly better than the other (although one is playing better right now, which is basically what the power rankings measure).
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2009-standings.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2009-standings.shtml)
I don't think anyone here said the Angels were clearly better. I was countering the comment that said the Dodgers were the best team in the MLB and provided 3 stats to show they aren't even the best team in Los Angeles, let alone MLB. But it's all subjective. Sorry I didn't include the pythageron numbers....I didn't even know they existed. I can't include something I don't know about. ;D
As for the run to the World Series, well based on what the Halos did to the NL this year, it looked like a cakewalk to me. ;D I hope we don't play the Rangers, they've kicked our ass all year long. We've had no problems with the AL East, AL Central, or the NL but the AL West is the only division we have a losing record against.
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Haha I seem to remember Cubs fans having a little fun with the Brewers losing a 13-6 game to the worst team in the MLB, the Nationals.
BUT that was not to be outdone by those Cubs themselves. Nice little 15-6 loss tonight.
Weird
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Haha I seem to remember Cubs fans having a little fun with the Brewers losing a 13-6 game to the worst team in the MLB, the Nationals.
BUT that was not to be outdone by those Cubs themselves. Nice little 15-6 loss tonight.
Weird
Man, you seriously reach for straws don't you? The Brewers recently get swept by the Pirates (have lost 5 of 6 to them) and have clearly had their own share of problems lately....are 3 games under .500 and are behind the Cubs in what has turned out to be a one team race in the division.....and you somehow still get enjoyment out of the Cubs losing by 9 to Washington because the Brewers only lost to them by 8 (not 7) a month ago?! What a miserable world you're living in....although the Cubs OCD appears to be under control as evidenced by your new profile pic and the removal of the Cubs quotes...we're all pulling for you.
Queue the youtube videos.....
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for a team that was 'far and away the best team in the NL Central' they sure are making it difficult on themselves to prove it.
I realize it is derivative at this point, but oh well... it IS fitting.
Completely
Usesless
By
September
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for a team that was 'far and away the best team in the NL Central' they sure are making it difficult on themselves to prove it.
I realize it is derivative at this point, but oh well... it IS fitting.
Completely
Usesless
By
September
Tired. You may as well have pasted a youtube clip. What's the acronym for the Brewers annual futility? You disagree that the Cubs were favored to win the division at the start of the season? Let me guess, you thought the Brewers would be there.
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Yeah, there is absolutely nothing to piss about any more. Both teams are bad, and there seasons ended at least a couple weeks ago already. 13-6,15-6, or 2-1? What is the difference? For fans of the Chicago Cubs and Milwaukee Brewers, baseball season is over.
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Man, you seriously reach for straws don't you? The Brewers recently get swept by the Pirates (have lost 5 of 6 to them) and have clearly had their own share of problems lately....are 3 games under .500 and are behind the Cubs in what has turned out to be a one team race in the division.....and you somehow still get enjoyment out of the Cubs losing by 9 to Washington because the Brewers only lost to them by 8 (not 7) a month ago?! What a miserable world you're living in....although the Cubs OCD appears to be under control as evidenced by your new profile pic and the removal of the Cubs quotes...we're all pulling for you.
Queue the youtube videos.....
I just think it's kind of funny that Cubs fans think losing 13-6 (I was at the game, the score is right) was the worst game that was ever played and showed how bad the Brewers were, and then they go and top it. Definitely not saying that the Brewers are good. Said from day 1 our pitching was not good enough. Not sure why Doug thought that signing Braden Looper would magically make up the losses of CC Sabathia and Ben Sheets. I had hope when we were hot early on, but it proved to be just a hot streak. And the world I am living in is quite great right now.
And just for the record, they may have been favored, but I also said all along that the Cardinals would win the division. Cubs fans thought they had a baseball team that was hand picked by God, and they have been terrible.
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I just think it's kind of funny that Cubs fans think losing 13-6 (I was at the game, the score is right) was the worst game that was ever played and showed how bad the Brewers were, and then they go and top it. Definitely not saying that the Brewers are good. Said from day 1 our pitching was not good enough. Not sure why Doug thought that signing Braden Looper would magically make up the losses of CC Sabathia and Ben Sheets. I had hope when we were hot early on, but it proved to be just a hot streak. And the world I am living in is quite great right now.
And just for the record, they may have been favored, but I also said all along that the Cardinals would win the division. Cubs fans thought they had a baseball team that was hand picked by God, and they have been terrible.
Did all Cubs fans think that was the 'worst game ever played' or just one person? The score was 14-6 (check your sources)....I think being swept by the Pirates was more than enough to show how bad the Brewers are....and, yes, the Cubs have been terrible. You predicted the Cardinals would win before they acquired Lugo, Smoltz, DeRosa and Holliday....I'd say the team that's running away with the division right now is a little different.
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Where did anyone comment on the Brewers losing 13-6 to the Nats? If anyone did comment though, they were right. Losing 13-6 to the Nats means the Brewers suck. Likewise losing 15-6 to the Nats means the Cubs suck.
Chicago sports radio has been filled with callers all day saying it was the worst game of the season. I don't think you'll find a Cubs fan who will deny that.
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http://www.casttv.com/video/flhur11/prince-fielder-has-a-song-yep-by-prote-j-video (http://www.casttv.com/video/flhur11/prince-fielder-has-a-song-yep-by-prote-j-video)
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http://www.casttv.com/video/flhur11/prince-fielder-has-a-song-yep-by-prote-j-video (http://www.casttv.com/video/flhur11/prince-fielder-has-a-song-yep-by-prote-j-video)
DO NOT WANT
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Only a few more days and Rich Harden will be pitching for the Minnesota Twins... nice.
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Only a few more days and Rich Harden will be pitching for the Minnesota Twins... nice.
...so that they can overpay for a player who will make an appearance once every 5 days while they are 4.5 games out...nice
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...so that they can overpay for a player who will make an appearance once every 5 days while they are 4.5 games out...nice
It would be nice. Unlike your team, the Twins have a chance to win their division and OUR pitching is ugly. Harden would be a huge acquisition for us and would please fans as well as some of our players. It's quite likely that Minnesota will win the AL Central (70/30), NFC North (guaranteed), and Big Ten (men's bball, 80/20 unless Trev doesn't make it, in which case they will finish near the bottom) this season/coming seasons. The Cubs suck, but at least they play at the fun little bar.
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i know this is supposed to be the baseball pissing match...
Jay bee, Trevor M, the difference between an 80% chance to win the big ten or finishing in the cellar, seriously?
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It would be nice. Unlike your team, the Twins have a chance to win their division and OUR pitching is ugly. Harden would be a huge acquisition for us and would please fans as well as some of our players. It's quite likely that Minnesota will win the AL Central (70/30), NFC North (guaranteed), and Big Ten (men's bball, 80/20 unless Trev doesn't make it, in which case they will finish near the bottom) this season/coming seasons. The Cubs suck, but at least they play at the fun little bar.
Since you're such a betting man, I'll put up four-digits that the Twins, Gophers & Vikings all won't win their divisions/conferences. PM me.
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Haha... you freaks all need teal to understand. Strange. I have very high hopes for Gophers bball, with or without Mbakwe, and my preference would be he never plays in Maroon or Gold.
I've offered a bet wherein I have the CONSENSUS pick, the Minnesota Vikings, to win the NFC North and that bet is still open. marqptm, I'd need some nice odds to bet on that one, even though its almost a given to happen.
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Haha... you freaks all need teal to understand. Strange. I have very high hopes for Gophers bball, with or without Mbakwe, and my preference would be he never plays in Maroon or Gold.
I've offered a bet wherein I have the CONSENSUS pick, the Minnesota Vikings, to win the NFC North and that bet is still open. marqptm, I'd need some nice odds to bet on that one, even though its almost a given to happen.
Could you please type up the definition of consensus for me? I'm interested to know what that word means, because I clearly thought it was something different than you seem to know it is...
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Haha... you freaks all need teal to understand. Strange. I have very high hopes for Gophers bball, with or without Mbakwe, and my preference would be he never plays in Maroon or Gold.
I've offered a bet wherein I have the CONSENSUS pick, the Minnesota Vikings, to win the NFC North and that bet is still open. marqptm, I'd need some nice odds to bet on that one, even though its almost a given to happen.
the best part about not using teal is that you can change your argument to fit whatever argument you come up with!
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/08/31/biggest.busts/index.html?eref=sihp#ixzz0PnKaAaNU
hooray!
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Ha. That's great.
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To bring back another discussion, JJ Hardy spent exactly 20 days in the minors so the Brewers control his rights until after 2011.
And he's pissed:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/56431322.html
It wasn't mentioned in this article, but I still think they were planning to plug him in at third in 2010 and work on converting Gamel to OF or 3B in 2011, but when he refused, the Brewers essentially decided to unload him and made him more "tradeable" by controlling him for two more years.
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So I stop watching the Dodgers in the 7th last night, and wake up to find out they got Thome and Jon Garland in the 8th. I guess Giants rotation, which looks to be most dominant in the league right now, was making them nervous.
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To bring back another discussion, JJ Hardy spent exactly 20 days in the minors so the Brewers control his rights until after 2011.
And he's pissed:
Yeah that was a real crappy thing the Brewers did. He would have been a free agent after 2010 but now has to wait another year because of the 20 days.
J.J. should have the players association look into this like Lirano did when the Twins had him in AAA with a 13-0 record and a sub 1.5 ERA. I think Hardy has a better case than Liriano had as free agency wasn't involved.
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Yeah that was a real crappy thing the Brewers did. He would have been a free agent after 2010 but now has to wait another year because of the 20 days.
J.J. should have the players association look into this like Lirano did when the Twins had him in AAA with a 13-0 record and a sub 1.5 ERA. I think Hardy has a better case than Liriano had as free agency wasn't involved.
So it is "just business" when a player leaves his team for free agency, or plays hardball in contract negotiations...but when a team holds a player accountable for his poor play and makes the best business decision for the good of the franchise, suddenly it's "underhanded" or "below the board."
EDIT - Not saying I agree with how they handled it, but we basically wasted 1/2 a season when he was brought up batting around .185 so he got service time for that when he should have been in the minors
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Yeah that was a real crappy thing the Brewers did. He would have been a free agent after 2010 but now has to wait another year because of the 20 days.
J.J. should have the players association look into this like Lirano did when the Twins had him in AAA with a 13-0 record and a sub 1.5 ERA. I think Hardy has a better case than Liriano had as free agency wasn't involved.
Rules are rules. He was playing crappy and refused a move to third. I'm not going to weep for him.
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Yeah that was a real crappy thing the Brewers did. He would have been a free agent after 2010 but now has to wait another year because of the 20 days.
J.J. should have the players association look into this like Lirano did when the Twins had him in AAA with a 13-0 record and a sub 1.5 ERA. I think Hardy has a better case than Liriano had as free agency wasn't involved.
You're kidding right? He was batting .230 in the majors and is batting .240 in the minors. Why should we have him up in the majors? Not to mention, while he was in the majors he was blocking the player who is WIDELY considered to be the best SS prospect in baseball from playing in the MLB. He didn't deserve to be in the MLB and we now have a better SS starting for us every day because of it.
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Agreed. They gave JJ Hardy an incredible amount of time to figure it out. He didn't, and the player they brought up to replace him performed better and is actually part of their future plans. They Players Association can look into it all they want...what they're likely to find is a bad baseball player.
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It is clear that this move by the Brewers was made solely to manipulate his service time.
If it was strictly a performance issue, why wasnt he down earlier in the year? Why not keep him in AAA for the rest of the AAA season (6 more games, plus playoffs)?
If you cant see the Brewers' motive with this move, you dont get it. The MLBPA's job is to work in the best interest of their players, and protect them. Free Agency is the most valuable thing in sports, and the team manipulated that. Whether you think it's right or wrong (based on Hardy's performance), it is inherently wrong and the MLBPA will have an issue with this.
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This was definitely done by the Brewers to ruin his service time. If it wasn't they would have brought him back a day sooner so he wouldn't lose it. The Brewers haven't been playing for anything for the last month and a half. Hardy easily could have been brought up sooner but wasn't for the sole purpose of taking his service time away.
The MLBPA needs to look into it, otherwise the Brewers will set a dangerous precedent. Any small market team will just be able to send their star player down to avoid him becoming a free agent.
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This was definitely done by the Brewers to ruin his service time. If it wasn't they would have brought him back a day sooner so he wouldn't lose it. The Brewers haven't been playing for anything for the last month and a half. Hardy easily could have been brought up sooner but wasn't for the sole purpose of taking his service time away.
The MLBPA needs to look into it, otherwise the Brewers will set a dangerous precedent. Any small market team will just be able to send their star player down to avoid him becoming a free agent.
Well, this already has happened, just not as close to the FA period as Hardy has been put through. We know the Rays held back Evan Longoria and David Price to keep their service time at max, but they were younger and possibly could legitimately make a case for them to start in the minors. The Brewers on the other hand pulled some shady crap.
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This was definitely done by the Brewers to ruin his service time. If it wasn't they would have brought him back a day sooner so he wouldn't lose it. The Brewers haven't been playing for anything for the last month and a half. Hardy easily could have been brought up sooner but wasn't for the sole purpose of taking his service time away.
The MLBPA needs to look into it, otherwise the Brewers will set a dangerous precedent. Any small market team will just be able to send their star player down to avoid him becoming a free agent.
There was an article not too long ago about this in the JS. In it Dave Bush, the Brewers' union rep, basically gave an "It is what it is" sort of response. Hardy's agent said something similar.
For the life of me, though, I can't find that article.
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This was definitely done by the Brewers to ruin his service time. If it wasn't they would have brought him back
The MLBPA needs to look into it, otherwise the Brewers will set a dangerous precedent. Any small market team will just be able to send their star player down to avoid him becoming a free agent.
They can look at it all they want, and they can save themselves some time and start with the labor agreement, which is where it will end.
The Brewers didn't send down their star player, they sent down their woefully underperforming player in an effort to boost his trade value, at a time they were clinging to whatever playoff hopes they had. The only person who's needs would have been served by sending him down a day later or bringing him back a day earlier would have been JJ Hardy's. That extra year probably doubles his trade value (whatever it that is).
All the Brewers did was abide by one of the few rules that teams can actually take advantage of in the labor agreement. Now teams can't even do that without being called on the carpet? JJ Hardy doesn't have to like it, but just as teams have to watch free agents walk away, in some cases getting nothing in return, that's the way it is. Hardy also could have prevented it. As people seem to want to ignore, had he been hitting .280 instead of .220, he never would have been sent down. This was about the plummeting trade value of a player who's replacement was ready and waiting. Did JJ Hardy get screwed in the deal? Maybe (I'm not sure they didn't actually do him a favor by giving him another year to prove he can play again before he goes to FA). Do MLB teams get screwed the the FA rules all the time? They sure do.
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Free Agency is the most valuable thing in sports, and the team manipulated that. Whether you think it's right or wrong (based on Hardy's performance), it is inherently wrong and the MLBPA will have an issue with this.
How is it inherently wrong? The team manipulated nothing. Why do the rules only apply to the players? As I said, the MLBPA can have all the issue with it they want...its their contract. Hardy was a .220 hitter. If he was not so pathetic, he never would have been sent down. His terrible play gave them the opportunity. The Brewers did what the contract allowed for, that they felt was in the best interest of the organization. Neither you, nor JJ, nor the MLBPA, or anyone else has to like it, or think its fair...both sides signed the contract. Now people are gonna bitch and moan when a team actually tries to use it for the benefit of the team? Spare me.
If this was strictly about service time, Yovanni Gallardo would have been sent down right along with him, but they didn't do that. Wonder why.
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Well yeah Holliday helps but I don't think he will make that big of an impact.
Care to revise? Obviously they have been pitching great lately but Holliday has been nothing short of phenomenal since coming over.
Of course, hindsight is 20-20 and this nice little run guarantees nothing in the playoffs but this looks like a pretty good move for the Cards. However, if they flop in the playoffs, can't resign him/doesn't produce up to his next contract, and Wallace hits 40 homers down the line it won't be.
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The Brewers absolutely did it to keep him from becoming FA eligible for an extra year so he has higher trade value. But they also now have a MUCH better SS starting for us. What Hardy brought to the table was a great glove with no range and great arm strength and decent power, no average, and no speed on the bases. What Escobar brings is a great glove, arm, and range, good average and great speed. Why should we keep playing Hardy and blocking Escobar? If we were bringing up a terrible
minor leaguer for a guy hitting .280 or if Hardy was killing the ball in AAA it'd be a different story, but he was batting .230 in the majors and was batting .240 in the minors. If he isn't performing why should he be in the majors? Makes no sense.
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How is it inherently wrong? The team manipulated nothing. Why do the rules only apply to the players? As I said, the MLBPA can have all the issue with it they want...its their contract. Hardy was a .220 hitter. If he was not so pathetic, he never would have been sent down. His terrible play gave them the opportunity. The Brewers did what the contract allowed for, that they felt was in the best interest of the organization. Neither you, nor JJ, nor the MLBPA, or anyone else has to like it, or think its fair...both sides signed the contract. Now people are gonna bitch and moan when a team actually tries to use it for the benefit of the team? Spare me.
If this was strictly about service time, Yovanni Gallardo would have been sent down right along with him, but they didn't do that. Wonder why.
JJ had been struggling all year, yet the wait until the last possible day to send him down, and then call him up the instant the 20 days have passed?
If you dont see what the motivation was here, then again, you dont get it.
The MLBPA is already seriously looking at the clubs for collusion during last off-season, dont think they wont address this.
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If you dont see what the motivation was here, then again, you dont get it.
The MLBPA is already seriously looking at the clubs for collusion during last off-season, dont think they wont address this.
Where did I say I didn't see the motivation? The motivation and timing is obvious. My problem is with people like you inventing some sort of righteous indignation that the Brewers actually did what was well within their rights under the union agreement, for the good of their club. Again, had Hardy been hitting .280 instead of .220 it never would have happened.
Why didn't they send Yovanni Gallardo down at the same time as Hardy? His ability and service time is and will be waaaayyyy more valuable than JJ Hardy's will ever be. Could it have something to do with the 3-ish ERA, and lack of a better alternative?
You and the MLBPA can bitch and moan, and 'address this' all you want, but you might want to read the labor agreement before you cry foul.
BTW, everyone does realize that by making the move they made, they also started the FA clock on Escobar, right? Of course nobody cares about that because evil Brewer ownership is just out to screw JJ Hardy.
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You and the MLBPA can bitch and moan, and 'address this' all you want, but you might want to read the labor agreement before you cry foul.
I have a pretty good understanding of the MLB/MLBPA Labor Agreement, and I know what I know, through various discussions with different MLB officials. Neither side is excited that this happened.
While the title of the thread includes "Pissing Match," I am not going to continue because it's not worth it.
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meaning you know when you are whooped.
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meaning you know when you are whooped.
Theres just no convincing some people.
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Neither side is excited that this happened.
Good for them! Who cares? I guess the MLBPA won't roll over like they usually do when negotiating the next agreement. Oh wait...
1. Best for the Milwaukee Brewers baseball organization?
A. Keeping a struggling hitter in the MLB in order to protect his FA time line while his trade value craters.
B. Send struggling player to AAA, adding a year of control to increase his trade value, and clear the way for the organization's top prospect.
2. People with the ability to make the decision above?
A. The player in question, The MLBPA
B. The Milwaukee Brewers
3. People who have to like the decision above?
A. The player in question, and the MLBPA
B. Nobody!
Hint: B is the correct answer to all three.
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Theres just no convincing some people.
Please, educate me where I'm wrong. What aspect of the labor agreement has been violated? Specifically what legitimate complaint does the MLBPA have and why?
They may not like it. JJ Hardy may not like it, but guess what? That's too bad. The Brewers probably didn't like the fact that they're paying JJ Hardy $5Million to hit .220. They probably didn't like the fact they had to eat $15 Million for Bill Hall to go away. They probably didn't like seeing CC Sabathia walk away in FA for a 2nd Rd. compensation pick, or seeing Ben Sheets walk away for nothing. Should MLB 'look into' those situations? Of course not, because those are the terms of the agreement that both sides agreed on.
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Sounds like a big fat "meh" from Milwaukee, and a big stink from a few Cubs fans on this board.
Would Brewers general manager Doug Melvin understand if Hardy and his agent, Mike Seal, were upset about the timing of Hardy's demotion?
"As long as they understand that we waited a long time for the player," Melvin said. "We carried certain young players -- I won't name them -- when they weren't performing earlier in their careers to help develop them. There are some players who gained some early service time when they didn't perform at this level."
"They're never going to say it's about service time, but we can't help but have that cross our minds," said Seal, Hardy's agent since 2002. "If it is about the player's free agency, controlling him longer, then it's a very shrewd move.
"We understand the club has options on his contract -- I just disagree with the transaction.
"I feel for J.J. as a teammate," said pitcher Dave Bush, the team's union representative. "It could have happened to me last year when I was sent down [in May, only to be recalled days later when Yovani Gallardo suffered a knee injury]. It's unfortunate from a player's perspective, but there's nothing illegal about it. You have to make the best you can out of it. The way I looked at it last year, if I had been pitching well I would have never gone down."
http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090827&content_id=6645646&vkey=news_mil&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil (http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090827&content_id=6645646&vkey=news_mil&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil)
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It's unfortunate from a player's perspective, but there's nothing illegal about it. You have to make the best you can out of it. The way I looked at it last year, if I had been pitching well I would have never gone down."
-- Dave Bush
Apparently Dave doesn't read this board, because if he did, he would know that the Brewers "pulled some shady crap" and the MLBPA "needs to look into this" and are going to "address this." What does he know, though? Its not like he's the Brewers Union Rep or anything.
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It's unfortunate from a player's perspective, but there's nothing illegal about it. You have to make the best you can out of it. The way I looked at it last year, if I had been pitching well I would have never gone down."
-- Dave Bush
Apparently Dave doesn't read this board, because if he did, he would know that the Brewers "pulled some shady crap" and the MLBPA "needs to look into this" and are going to "address this." What does he know, though? Its not like he's the Brewers Union Rep or anything.
Check and mate.
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Care to revise? Obviously they have been pitching great lately but Holliday has been nothing short of phenomenal since coming over.
Of course, hindsight is 20-20 and this nice little run guarantees nothing in the playoffs but this looks like a pretty good move for the Cards. However, if they flop in the playoffs, can't resign him/doesn't produce up to his next contract, and Wallace hits 40 homers down the line it won't be.
I'll admit I was wrong on this one.
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Check and mate.
Really a Dave Bush quote about how he sucked is check mate? GOMU1104 is right on this one. If you think the MLBPA doesn't investigate you are fooling yourselves. Free agency is what they are all about. You don't f*** wth these guys when it comes to free agency.
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Really a Dave Bush quote about how he sucked is check mate? GOMU1104 is right on this one. If you think the MLBPA doesn't investigate you are fooling yourselves.
Que broken record...Good for them. They can investigate all they want. What exactly is it you guys think the results of said investigation are going to be, they figure out that the Brewers sent him down to get an extra year of control? Everybody already knows that. There has been no effort or reason to try to hide that fact. Guess what? There isn't a damn thing they can do about it, besides bitch and moan like you guys.
As I have already pointed out, JJ Hardy's loss, is Alciedes Escobar's gain, as he is now closer to his FA. Are they going to investigate that too? Doh!
Again...righteous indignation over the Brewers doing something that was well within their rights, and their interest to do. Not sure why that is so difficult to understand. Then again, coming from the crowd who thought the Cubs declaring bankruptcy would allow them to void Soriano's contract, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. But hey, the MLBPA could always investigate.
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Great decesion, piss off the MLBPA.
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Great decesion, piss off the MLBPA.
Hmmm...so the argument seems to have changed. I thought they were going to investigate. I guess they are going to investigate whether or not they are pissed off.
MLBPA Investigator: "JJ, how do you feel about what happened?"
JJ HArdy: "I'm pissed."
MLBPA Investigator: "Alcieded, how do you feel about what happened?"
Alciedes Escobar: "I love it. I'm in the bigs, and a year closer to getting paid!"
MEMO
TO: MLBPA Members
FR: MPLPA Investigator
RE: JJ Hardy AAA Demotion
To all my union brethren, after extensive investigation, we have concluded that the Milwaukee Brewers did nothing to violate the terms of the labor agreement, and one of our members will actually benefit from this situation, but we will feign outrage anyway because that's what unions do.
We would like to thank MUScoop Cub fans for joining us in our insincere righteous indignation, and encouraging us to conduct the investigation, and address this situation. I would also like to thank the MLBPA intern for the dozens of minutes spent on this investigation, particularly the time spent efficiently reading the labor agreement that provided the Milwaukee Brewers the right to make the roster moves that they made. That effort allowed us to avoid spending any additional time or resources on the investigation.
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This isn't a Cubs Brewers issue. The MLBPA will investigate. I stand by that.
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Really a Dave Bush quote about how he sucked is check mate? GOMU1104 is right on this one. If you think the MLBPA doesn't investigate you are fooling yourselves. Free agency is what they are all about. You don't f*** wth these guys when it comes to free agency.
Or actually I was referring to how the Brewers UNION REP basically says, aw shucks. Should have played better.
But yeah, Dave Bush probably has no idea about the rules.
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This isn't a Cubs Brewers issue. The MLBPA will investigate. I stand by that.
They can investigate the early service time he earned while batting .185 when he was originally brought up and (unlike now) we had no alternatives.
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The MLBPA will investigate. I stand by that.
You keep saying that! Investigate what exactly?!?!? What is said investigation supposedly going to accomplish? Its a simple question, it appears you are incapable of answering.
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At first I was against this but now I'm not really sure. Obviously they did it to gain a year of eligibility but I'm not sure how much this move will really hurts JJ's pocketbook, especially if he has another down year.
JJ Hardy makes $4.65 million this year. I believe under the rules of arbitration, the lowest the Brewers (or any other team he's traded to) can offer him the next two years are $3.72 million for 2010 and $3.255 million for 2011. That is the absolute lowest he can make for 2011 (the arbitrator can decide to take JJ's offer or the two sides could agree on a number in between). If he has another year like this year, he might have a tough time making that as a free agent. Of course, if he comes back and hits .280 and 25 homers he'll prolly be able to get more than that but I'm not sure exactly how much.
Here's a list of shortstops that signed last offseason and how much they made this year:
Edgar Renteria - $8 million
Rafael Furcal - $7.5 million
Orlando Cabrera - $4 million
Felipe Lopez - $3.5 million
Cezar Izturis - $2.4 million
Nomar Garciaparra - $1 million
Juan Uribe - $1 million
Adam Everrett - $1 million
Omar Vizquel - $1 million
David Eckstein - $850k
I'm not sure where Hardy falls on that list. Another year like this year and he'd prolly be somewhere toward the lower end. A good year and he's prolly at about 3rd. To be honest, if JJ doesn't agree to make a move to either second or third I would be shocked to see him on the Brewers at all. Whether that means they trade him (prolly could only get two lower level minor leaguers at best right now) or don't offer him arbitration (making him a free agent) who knows. The MLBPA can investigate all they want, but really they have no case. He got a lot of extra service time when the Brewers stuck with him early in his career, you can't blame them when they pull the plug on him when they had a better option at SS.
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To be honest, if JJ doesn't agree to make a move to either second or third I would be shocked to see him on the Brewers at all. Whether that means they trade him (prolly could only get two lower level minor leaguers at best right now) or don't offer him arbitration (making him a free agent) who knows.
I would put the chances of JJ being on the Brewers next year at approximately 5%. Unless they come up with some massive deal involving Escobar (unlikely) JJ will be gone. Gamel and McGehee are better options at 3B, and Weeks will likely be back at 2B. Obviously any number of deals could be made, but the Brewers clearly intend to deal Hardy this off season.
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I'll admit I was wrong on this one.
Btw, that was very earnest of you. If everyone on this board could predict the future 100% of the time, we'd all be stockbrokers.
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Btw, that was very earnest of you. If everyone on this board could predict the future 100% of the time, we'd all be stockbrokers.
I wouldn't. I'd spend an hour a week buying and selling on-line, and spend the rest of my time traveling to my various vacation homes around the world on my private jet.
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http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090906&content_id=6823408&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil (http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090906&content_id=6823408&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil)
Prince and pretty much everyone on the Brewers better look out for a ball right at their ear flap next time they play the Giants.
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http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090906&content_id=6823408&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil (http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090906&content_id=6823408&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil)
Prince and pretty much everyone on the Brewers better look out for a ball right at their ear flap next time they play the Giants.
Yeah, agree. The Angels were interviewed about it yesterday as well. They all thought it was kinda funny but also said that should be for football, not baseball.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-angels-fyi8-2009sep08,0,4536898.story
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http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090906&content_id=6823408&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil (http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090906&content_id=6823408&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil)
Prince and pretty much everyone on the Brewers better look out for a ball right at their ear flap next time they play the Giants.
I think they expect it, to be honest.
That was freaking hilarious though, and I don't really see the problem with it. It's not like it was some intricate routine, he jumped and they all fell. It probably took less time than jumping up and down in a circle.
And front and center for it was Trevor Hoffman, who is one of the most all-business, old school guys in the game. If he's alright with it, I'm alright with it.
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http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090906&content_id=6823408&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil (http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090906&content_id=6823408&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=mil)
Prince and pretty much everyone on the Brewers better look out for a ball right at their ear flap next time they play the Giants.
Sure buddy!! Take it easy, its a walk-off home run for cripes sakes. I'm glad they're still having fun even though they have no shot at the playoffs.
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Sure buddy!! Take it easy, its a walk-off home run for cripes sakes. I'm glad they're still having fun even though they have no shot at the playoffs.
All depends on who's ox had been gored. The Giants are in the thick of a battle. If the Brewers were in that thick of a battle and a team with no shot did this to them, my guess is some Brewer fans would be upset.
It reminds me of when Packer fans went batcrazy when the Cowboys kicked a 7th FG at the end of the game to tie a NFL record. If it wasn't the Cowboys, the Packers fans wouldn't have care, but because it was the Cowboys (or insert Bears, Vikings, too) it was the end of the world. Personally, I loved it, but then again if someone was doing against my team and they happened to be the Redskins, Giants, Eagles or 49ers....then I'd be ticked.
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I thought it was quite funny, and frankly I applaud the Brewers for being willing to rip a few pages out of the hopelessly outdated baseball etiquette book (the book that miserable bastard Tony LaRussa, the St. Louis Cardinals and their idiot fans seem to feel they are the keepers of).
I do think I would think it was funny if I was on the other side too (I think I may be one of the only people in the world who kinda likes Manny Ramirez).
As someone else said, if guys like Trevor Hoffman, Mike Cameron and Craig Counsel are not only ok with this, but participating in it, then its ok with me. The Brewers do not taunt people, they don't point at individual players, they don't go out of their way to be disrespectful or embarrass someone...they have fun and do things in ways that have not traditionally been done. Who cares?
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I thought it was quite funny, and frankly I applaud the Brewers for being willing to rip a few pages out of the hopelessly outdated baseball etiquette book (the book that miserable bastard Tony LaRussa, the St. Louis Cardinals and their idiot fans seem to feel they are the keepers of).
I do think I would think it was funny if I was on the other side too (I think I may be one of the only people in the world who kinda likes Manny Ramirez).
As someone else said, if guys like Trevor Hoffman, Mike Cameron and Craig Counsel are not only ok with this, but participating in it, then its ok with me. The Brewers do not taunt people, they don't point at individual players, they don't go out of their way to be disrespectful or embarrass someone...they have fun and do things in ways that have not traditionally been done. Who cares?
I'm hoping next week that people run across the green while Tiger is putting, too. ;)
The good thing is that baseball will police their own and an ear hole shot is coming, rest assured.
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I'm hoping next week that people run across the green while Tiger is putting, too. ;)
The good thing is that baseball will police their own and an ear hole shot is coming, rest assured.
While I appreciate the "police their own" aspect of baseball to a certain extent, is this the kind of thing that needs policing?
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I'm hoping next week that people run across the green while Tiger is putting, too. ;)
Well, that's almost the same thing.
To jump on IAm's point below, why does this need to be policed? What exactly is it about what they did that needs to be policed?
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The good thing is that baseball will police their own and an ear hole shot is coming, rest assured.
Just so we're clear on what that quote means...you think it's a good thing that a pitcher is going to try to hit Prince Fielder or another Brewer in the head?
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It was different, it was funny, it is something that will probably be copied. It did no one any harm and it got a cheap giggle and brought the team a few moments of unity. Lighten up, Frances. On the other hand, I thought Randy Moss's stunt at Lambeau was hilarious, too. So maybe it is just me.
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It was different, it was funny, it is something that will probably be copied. It did no one any harm and it got a cheap giggle and brought the team a few moments of unity. Lighten up, Frances. On the other hand, I thought Randy Moss's stunt at Lambeau was hilarious, too. So maybe it is just me.
Everybody but Joe Buck thought it was funny. I hate Randy Moss (not quite as much as I did when he was a Viking), but you've gotta give it to him on that one.
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Just so we're clear on what that quote means...you think it's a good thing that a pitcher is going to try to hit Prince Fielder or another Brewer in the head?
No, I wouldn't want him to actually hit him, but buzzing the tower on a few pitches I think would be a riot. :)
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Well, that's almost the same thing.
To jump on IAm's point below, why does this need to be policed? What exactly is it about what they did that needs to be policed?
I guess that's kind of my point, who gets to decide what is acceptable and not acceptable? Seems to me its the players. I put the golf example in there because what is to prevent another player from doing that? Why were the Europeans so pissed off at the US in the Ryder Cup a few years back from celebrating on the greens?
There are examples everywhere and I'll again say it depends on who's ox was gored. If the Brits did that in the Ryder Cup we would be pissed, but we call them stuffy since we were the ones that did the celebrating.
As I said earlier, I thought what the Brewers did was funny, I think most fans do. But there are an awful lot of players, the guys that actually play the game, that although they thought it was funny don't believe it belongs in baseball. As such, it's THEIR game and they will police it in my opinion.
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I don't see how anyone could get pissed at essentially a team-wide fat joke at Prince's expense...
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Just so we're clear on what that quote means...you think it's a good thing that a pitcher is going to try to hit Prince Fielder or another Brewer in the head?
If they want to set the standard for low. That's what the whole Dodgers-Guillermo Mota thing was about. When the Brewers hit Manny it was your usual straight as a string fastball to the back. Mota hit Fielder with a sharp cutter at the knee. If the Giants want to hit Fielder I would hope they have the common sense not to go for his earhole.
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If they want to set the standard for low. That's what the whole Dodgers-Guillermo Mota thing was about. When the Brewers hit Manny it was your usual straight as a string fastball to the back. Mota hit Fielder with a sharp cutter at the knee. If the Giants want to hit Fielder I would hope they have the common sense not to go for his earhole.
But wasn't it Dave Bush who hit him?
And Bush throws at his hardest, what, 88mph?
EDIT: And if I had to guess the Brewers pitcher with the most hit batters, it's Bush.
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I put the golf example in there because what is to prevent another player from doing that?
The PGA.
Why were the Europeans so pissed off at the US in the Ryder Cup a few years back from celebrating on the greens?
Because they just got their asses whipped after having a seemingly insurmountable lead.
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But wasn't it Dave Bush who hit him?
And Bush throws at his hardest, what, 88mph?
EDIT: And if I had to guess the Brewers pitcher with the most hit batters, it's Bush.
Bush leads the NL in hit batters even though he missed a few weeks.
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The reason baseball is losing fans is because a lot of the fun has been sucked out of the game by people who are fun-haters (Tony LaRussa)
On the other hand, the Brewers are WAY out of the playoffs and still get people to show up to games.
I wonder why that is? Might it be that the games are actually... dare I say it... fun?
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The reason baseball is losing fans is because a lot of the fun has been sucked out of the game by people who are fun-haters (Tony LaRussa)
On the other hand, the Brewers are WAY out of the playoffs and still get people to show up to games.
I wonder why that is? Might it be that the games are actually... dare I say it... fun?
Baseball is losing relative popularity because it is a game that doesn't translate well on television in an era where television is extremely important to a sport's popularity.
And this Brewer fan would trade LaRussa for Macha in a heartbeat.
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I guess that's kind of my point, who gets to decide what is acceptable and not acceptable? Seems to me its the players. I put the golf example in there because what is to prevent another player from doing that? Why were the Europeans so pissed off at the US in the Ryder Cup a few years back from celebrating on the greens?
There are examples everywhere and I'll again say it depends on who's ox was gored. If the Brits did that in the Ryder Cup we would be pissed, but we call them stuffy since we were the ones that did the celebrating.
As I said earlier, I thought what the Brewers did was funny, I think most fans do. But there are an awful lot of players, the guys that actually play the game, that although they thought it was funny don't believe it belongs in baseball. As such, it's THEIR game and they will police it in my opinion.
The game was OVER!!!!!
When the US celebrated on the green, Olazabal still had a long putt to half the hole. The Europeans were pissed because a) a bunch of US guys stepped in Olazabal's line b) the celebration was a bit early since they hadn't actually clinched anything yet.
I would highly doubt there is any retailiation for this celebratory outburst on a walk-off home run, but I guess you never know.
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But wasn't it Dave Bush who hit him?
And Bush throws at his hardest, what, 88mph?
EDIT: And if I had to guess the Brewers pitcher with the most hit batters, it's Bush.
It was Chris Smith, who throws just as soft.
And chapman, it wasn't a "straight as a string fastball to the back." It was a fastball that rode inside and got him on the forearm. There was nothing remotely intentional about it.
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It was Chris Smith, who throws just as soft.
And chapman, it wasn't a "straight as a string fastball to the back." It was a fastball that rode inside and got him on the forearm. There was nothing remotely intentional about it.
Thanks for the correction.
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Baseball is losing relative popularity because it is a game that doesn't translate well on television in an era where television is extremely important to a sport's popularity.
And this Brewer fan would trade LaRussa for Macha in a heartbeat.
I wouldn't since he is the epitome of a douche bag.
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I wouldn't since he is the epitome of a douche bag.
Granted, but he is a winning douche bag.
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How people don't see what was wrong with this amazes me. Having fun and celebrating a win with your teammates is one thing...it's common for the team to jump around home plate and mob the guy who hit a walk-off HR...been going on for years.
But to point to your teammates before you get to second base to get them 'ready', untucking your jersey as you're rounding second base and then the whole choreographed thing at home plate....come on. The fact that this was probably rehearsed or, at a minimum, planned/discussed in the clubhouse is ridiculous. There's no excuse...even more when your team is 6 games under .500 and playing out the string....it's not like it pulled them within a game of the wild card during an 8 game winning streak....they had lost 4 of 5 and needed that HR to avoid the series sweep. You add to it that it comes from a guy who charged through the tunnels of Dodger Stadium to bust into to Dodgers' clubhouse after being hit and it makes it more unbelievable.
If Lazar Hayward jumped on the scorers' table and the MU students stormed the court after beating Maryland Eastern Shore on a last second shot I'd be embarrassed.
The one thing I've liked about baseball is that, by-and-large, the punk, BS behavior has been limited to a few incidents or players...and not the norm....like we have in football where every time a DB breaks up a pass or there's a sack, or, heaven forbid, a TD...there's some BS trash talking, taunting, choreographed routine....it's tiresome and takes away from the game. So much so the NFL now penalizes for it....it impacts the integrity of the game, sets a horrible example for kids and throws sportsmanship out the window.
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But to point to your teammates before you get to second base to get them 'ready', untucking your jersey as you're rounding second base and then the whole choreographed thing at home plate....come on.
Seriously? The untucking thing bothers you too? Are you a Cardinals fan?
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+1M to "How people don't see what was wrong with this amazes me."
The fact that Fielder cannot handle a retaliatory plunk (whether you believe the pitch to Ramirez was intentional or not), but can put on this display amazes me
And the fans that think it was funny - just think if the Cubs players did this on a walk-off against the Brewers - I'm sure most, if not all, would be singing a different tune
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+1M - the fact that Fielder cannot handle a retaliatory plunk (whether you believe the pitch to Ramirez was intentional or not), but can put on this display amazes me
And the fans that think it was funny - just think if the Cubs players did this on a walk-off against the Brewers - I'm sure most, if not all, would be singing a different tune
At Miller Park? For sure. It's not like these guys did it in front of a SF crowd. It was at Miller Park (which is doing very well for attendance despite the ineptitude of the team) for fans that haven't had a whole lot to cheer about lately.
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The fact that Fielder cannot handle a retaliatory plunk (whether you believe the pitch to Ramirez was intentional or not), but can put on this display amazes me
He got hit in the 9th (or 8th?) of a 17-3 game, there's no place for that.
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Wasn't this the same board that was bashing Soriano for his point and "you can't see me"? Isn't this by far worse because it involved teammates?
This was rehearsed, but still funny.
But in the end who cares. The Giants have more important things to worry about, like trying to make the playoffs.
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The fact that Fielder cannot handle a retaliatory plunk (whether you believe the pitch to Ramirez was intentional or not), but can put on this display amazes me
What if anything, does one have to do with the other? How does this celebration put anyone's season and/or career at risk, as throwing at someone in a meaningless AB does?
And the fans that think it was funny - just think if the Cubs players did this on a walk-off against the Brewers - I'm sure most, if not all, would be singing a different tune
I assure you, you're wrong. Funny is funny, and that's what this was, and what it was intended to be...Not intended to embarrass anyone or anything like that. Designed to draw attention to him/themselves? Absolutely, but who cares? Who or what was harmed by this? If something was in fact wrong with it, please explain exactly what that is.
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At Miller Park? For sure. It's not like these guys did it in front of a SF crowd. It was at Miller Park (which is doing very well for attendance despite the ineptitude of the team) for fans that haven't had a whole lot to cheer about lately.
It would be hard for the Cubs to hit a walk-off at Miller Park, no? If they did it at Wrigley, you'd be OK with it?
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Seriously? The untucking thing bothers you too? Are you a Cardinals fan?
I'm far from a Cardinals fan....as a Cubs fan, they're our biggest rival.
Yes, the untucking thing bothers me....it's ridiculous. Did you like it when Jerry Smith ran around the BC with his jersey off after beating MU? Did you like when football players took their helmets off after making a big play? Maybe Tiger should drop his pants the next time he sinks a putt to win a tournament....or at least untuck his shirt and run around the green.
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He got hit in the 9th (or 8th?) of a 17-3 game, there's no place for that.
Just like there is no place for charging the other teams locker room? What was the score of the game when Manny got hit (I honestly do not know)?
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Did you like it when Jerry Smith ran around the BC with his jersey off after beating MU? Did you like when football players took their helmets off after making a big play? Maybe Tiger should drop his pants the next time he sinks a putt to win a tournament....or at least untuck his shirt and run around the green.
Again...how are any of these even close to the same thing? It is not done during a game, not done more than once. It is done one time, after a win. Then again, it was started by that classless jerk Mike Cameron, not a guy that is universally highly regarded and respected by his peers around the league.
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What if anything, does one have to do with the other? How does this celebration put anyone's season and/or career at risk, as throwing at someone in a meaningless AB does?
I assure you, you're wrong. Funny is funny, and that's what this was, and what it was intended to be...Not intended to embarrass anyone or anything like that. Designed to draw attention to him/themselves? Absolutely, but who cares? Who or what was harmed by this? If something was in fact wrong with it, please explain exactly what that is.
Not sure Fielder's career was at risk - he got hit in the meat of his thigh. I take your assurance lightly since you cannot speak for all Brewers fans. Personally, I do not care what their home run celebration is - I found it neither entertaining or offensive. I just think that if I was a player on the Giants watching that, I would be offended
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Again...how are any of these even close to the same thing? It is not done during a game, not done more than once. It is done one time, after a win. Then again, it was started by that classless jerk Mike Cameron, not a guy that is universally highly regarded and respected by his peers around the league.
Jerry Smith did it after the game was over, sinking a putt to win a tournament signals the end of play and, in football, it can happen throughout the game....point is, it's garbage behavior no matter when it occurs.
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Just like there is no place for charging the other teams locker room?
If you are looking for someone to disagree with that, good luck.
This breaks down pretty simply to people who watched and immediately laughed, because it was in fact funny, or those who watched, resisted the urge to laugh and instead made the decision to be 'outrage' over such boorish behavior, because of the parties involved. When you look at the comments by those who were offended by this, they all seem to have to point to other things Prince/the Brewers have been involved in as a reason why they are offended by it. Interesting.
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Not sure Fielder's career was at risk - he got hit in the meat of his thigh.
Yes, because Guillermo Mota is well known for his pinpoint control. If he gets hit in the hand, or the knee? Come to think of it he probably was aiming for his head.
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If you are looking for someone to disagree with that, good luck.
This breaks down pretty simply to people who watched and immediately laughed, because it was in fact funny, or those who watched, resisted the urge to laugh and instead made the decision to be 'outrage' over such boorish behavior, because of the parties involved. When you look at the comments by those who were offended by this, they all seem to have to point to other things Prince/the Brewers have been involved in as a reason why they are offended by it. Interesting.
I was watching when it happened - I didn't laugh or resist the urge to - I didn't find it funny or offensive. In a previous post I said as much. I just put myself in other's shoes and if I was a Giants player I would have likely been offended and not forgotten that the next time I played. Just like I urge people that found it funny to do, if the Brewers were on the receiving end I think Brewers fans would be upset by the behavior.
I pointed to Prince getting beaned because that is part of the game - clearly the Dodgers thought Manny got hit intentionally and retaliated by hitting Prince in the meat of the thigh and he flew off the handle. A couple weeks before that happened, a Brewers pitcher hit an opposing player intentionally, and before the player could even react, Kendall was in his face pushing him down the first base line saying "either charge the mound or walk to first" - apparently that only applies to other teams
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If you Brewer fans wanted people to stop throwing at your players heads tell them to stop being a**holes. Why is it always your team that's being targeted?
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Prince-Fielder-s-brash-Brewers-added-to-yet-anot?urn=mlb,187823#remaining-content (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Prince-Fielder-s-brash-Brewers-added-to-yet-anot?urn=mlb,187823#remaining-content)
Needless to say, if there were a 2009 pennant awarded for rubbing opponents the wrong way, the Brewers would have long since clinched it. By my count, the list of competitors irked by the 2009 Crew now includes the disrespected Giants, the fashion-minded Cardinals, the beanballing Pirates and Cubs announcer Bob Brenly. Throw in Fielder's attempted forced entry into the Dodgers clubhouse last month and you've got a team that produces an amount of headlines that's disproportionate to their fourth place standing in the NL Central.
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That is a great picture.
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It would be hard for the Cubs to hit a walk-off at Miller Park, no? If they did it at Wrigley, you'd be OK with it?
I think you knew what I meant, I'd be upset with Cubs doing some sort of grand gesture like this in Miller Park just like I wouldn't want to see them [the Brewers] do something like this at opposing parks.
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You know what I meant.
Not really - of course if an opposing team did this it Miller Park it would be ridiculous, but part of the question is, is it less bothersome because the game was over.
Therefore, if the Cubs hit a walk-off against the Brewers at Wrigley and did this celebration would you, as a Brewers fan, think it was funny/offensive/something else?
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Not really - of course if an opposing team did this it Miller Park it would be ridiculous, but part of the question is, is it less bothersome because the game was over.
Therefore, if the Cubs hit a walk-off against the Brewers at Wrigley and did this celebration would you, as a Brewers fan, think it was funny/offensive/something else?
If it was actually funny and not meant to 'show up' or taunt the opposing team. It wasn't a taunt at SF, they would have done it against any team they were playing.
EDIT: Fielder takes crap from everyone about his weight, how is it not funny when he takes it to the level of "watch when I stomp on the plate and cause an earthquake"
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If you Brewer fans wanted people to stop throwing at your players heads tell them to stop being a**holes. Why is it always your team that's being targeted?
Again just so we get this clear...do you feel that untucking jerseys or a choreographed celebration warrant throwing at a players head? If yes, I feel sorry for you. If no, what is your point?
Beyond that, what a**holish behavior did the Brewers exhibit toward the Pirates? Whipping their a**es? How about the Cardinals? Who anointed them the keepers of the baseball etiquette book anyway? Bob Brenley?
You sound a little like those people who try to justify the terrorists actions on 9/11.
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I'm far from a Cardinals fan....as a Cubs fan, they're our biggest rival.
Yes, the untucking thing bothers me....it's ridiculous. Did you like it when Jerry Smith ran around the BC with his jersey off after beating MU? Did you like when football players took their helmets off after making a big play? Maybe Tiger should drop his pants the next time he sinks a putt to win a tournament....or at least untuck his shirt and run around the green.
Man, some of you must be the among the most boring people in the world. The Brewers are having fun playing out a meaningless stretch of baseball at home. Personally, I didn't have a huge problem with Jerry Smith running around in front of his hometown crowd after hitting a game winner. I would have had even less of a problem if he had done it at Louisville. Nobody seems to care when Tiger does his boisterous fist pumps or throws his hat down after winning a tournement. How about when Al jumped on the scorer's table when MU beat Wisconsin or Brandi Chastain ripping her shirt off after winning the world cup? Athletes often celebrate when big moments occur because at the end of the day they are PLAYING A GAME.
I did have a problem with Prince charging the clubhouse. That was just plain stupid and uncalled for. But to link that incident with this one makes no sense and is the comparison is only being made out of conveinence.
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If it was actually funny and not meant to 'show up' or taunt the opposing team. It wasn't a taunt at SF, they would have done it against any team they were playing.
EDIT: Fielder takes crap from everyone about his weight, how is it not funny when he takes it to the level of "watch when I stomp on the plate and cause an earthquake"
Who determines if and when it is meant to "show up" or taunt the opposing team? If the game was against the Cubs or Cards is it then a taunt? Do the fans decide if it was taunting or not? Maybe the team that did the celebration should determine whether they were taunting? Or maybe the Giants should decide if they felt disrespected as is evidenced by the Giants pitching coach and a number of players showed on their faces but failed to say publicly.
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It seems to be more than a coincidence that multiple teams have a problem with the Brewers this year.
Eariler this year I was all for Soriano getting drilled in the head after his "you can't see me" walk-off homerun. The only reason he didn't get drilled is because Oswalt injured himself in the first inning before facing Soriano.
Rather than complaining to the media about players throwing at heads, Ken Macha should tell his team to quit being d-bags.
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Who determines if and when it is meant to "show up" or taunt the opposing team? If the game was against the Cubs or Cards is it then a taunt? Do the fans decide if it was taunting or not? Maybe the team that did the celebration should determine whether they were taunting? Or maybe the Giants should decide if they felt disrespected as is evidenced by the Giants pitching coach and a number of players showed on their faces but failed to say publicly.
You raise fair points, but when the kid [yes, he's still a kid] is smiling and running around the bases after a big game-winning HR does it appear like he's taunting anyone?
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Eariler this year I was all for Soriano getting drilled in the head after his "you can't see me" walk-off homerun.
If you think that, the Fielder incident, staring down a home run, untucking jerseys, or any other action that people find 'offensive' justifies getting drilled in the head, then frankly you forfeit your right to an opinion, because that is just plain stupid. That 9/11 comparison sounds more and more on the money with each post you make.
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Maybe the players association should look into this.
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If you think that, the Fielder incident, staring down a home run, untucking jerseys, or any other action that people find 'offensive' justifies getting drilled in the head, then frankly you forfeit your right to an opinion, because that is just plain stupid. That 9/11 comparison sounds more and more on the money with each post you make.
Ummm where did I ever mention 9/11?
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You raise fair points, but when the kid [yes, he's still a kid] is smiling and running around the bases after a big game-winning HR does it appear like he's taunting anyone?
I have already said I was not personally offended, but for the Brewers and their fans to tell the Giants they should not be offended - who are they to decide how the Giants should/should not feel? Prince is not "a kid" - he's 23/24 years old and has kids of his own (I digress).
Also - there is NEVER, EVER a reason to throw at somebody's head. I don't think a pitcher exists in the game that would intentionally throw at someone's head. Look at the reactions of the pitchers that do hit somebody in the head (was it Cain that hit D. Wright awhile back?) - the pitchers always look sick and remorseful.
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Man, some of you must be the among the most boring people in the world. The Brewers are having fun playing out a meaningless stretch of baseball at home. Personally, I didn't have a huge problem with Jerry Smith running around in front of his hometown crowd after hitting a game winner. I would have had even less of a problem if he had done it at Louisville. Nobody seems to care when Tiger does his boisterous fist pumps or throws his hat down after winning a tournement. How about when Al jumped on the scorer's table when MU beat Wisconsin or Brandi Chastain ripping her shirt off after winning the world cup? Athletes often celebrate when big moments occur because at the end of the day they are PLAYING A GAME.
I did have a problem with Prince charging the clubhouse. That was just plain stupid and uncalled for. But to link that incident with this one makes no sense and is the comparison is only being made out of conveinence.
Actually, if you read what most of us said, we thought it was funny and don't mind the emotion....but I also don't mind the other team throwing one near his earhole either. It's part of the game....and to be clear, I'm not saying headhunting....if you want to drill him in the back or the butt, fine. (incidentally, in the old days they threw at the head all the time...on purpose)
Was it really cool when Terrell Owens did his little dance on the Cowboys star when he was a 49er? Yes, it was cool and funny, but it was also great when the Cowboys planted him into the ground the second time for doing it. Police your own.
Has nothing to do with being boring, I love the emotion but I also support the teams and players wanting to to respond.
So back to golf.....why can't we have more emotion, jumping up and down, chest bumps with caddies, running around the greens.....seems only fair. ;)
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...but I also don't mind the other team throwing one near his earhole either. It's part of the game....and to be clear, I'm not saying headhunting....if you want to drill him in the back or the butt, fine.
You do realize where the earhole is located don't you? Which is it?
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Baseball is losing relative popularity because it is a game that doesn't translate well on television in an era where television is extremely important to a sport's popularity.
And this Brewer fan would trade LaRussa for Macha in a heartbeat.
Exactly...to suggest baseball is losing popularity because people aren't celebrating enough is ridiculous. Do people actually tune in to watch NFL celebrations in the end zone? If they do, I suggest they set their DVR to Dancing with the Stars then.
And baseball attendance has done very well, ratings are still very solid, plenty of emotion is shown out there every day with pitchers all jacked up, hitters, etc. The thing with Fielder's deal is that it was scripted, no two ways about it. But then again, if you're out of the playoff run you have a lot of time on your hands to play dress up and think of ways to act out fantasies on the field.
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Earlier this year I was all for Soriano getting drilled in the head after his "you can't see me" walk-off homerun. The only reason he didn't get drilled is because Oswalt injured himself in the first inning before facing Soriano.
So let me get this straight, one of the guys who was beyond outraged at the Brewers taking advantage of one of the rules/rights afforded them by the labor agreement to try to increase a players trade value to improve their team because it messes with his free agency, has no issue with another team throwing at another player's head and messing with his career/health/life because why, they got their feelings hurt?
At least you aren't hypocritical.
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It seems to be more than a coincidence that multiple teams have a problem with the Brewers this year.
Eariler this year I was all for Soriano getting drilled in the head after his "you can't see me" walk-off homerun. The only reason he didn't get drilled is because Oswalt injured himself in the first inning before facing Soriano.
Rather than complaining to the media about players throwing at heads, Ken Macha should tell his team to quit being d-bags.
Soriano also did the "you can't see me" to the opposing dugout. The Brewers walk-off celebration was for the Brewers, not directed at the Giants.
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Soriano actually had family sitting right behind the opposing teams dugout. For the record, I am a Cubs fan and Sori's actions get a little ridiculous (especially for someone hitting below .250)
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Titan, you left out the most important part of that article:
I think it would have been better to save the creativity for a situation when the win meant more for the Brewers then the loss did for their opponent. There are plenty of times to have fun in baseball, but directly after dealing a blow to the Giants' postseason hopes wasn't one of them.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Prince-Fielder-s-brash-Brewers-added-to-yet-anot?urn=mlb,187823#remaining-content (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Prince-Fielder-s-brash-Brewers-added-to-yet-anot?urn=mlb,187823#remaining-content)
The only reason the Giants were pissed is because they got beat and it dropped them further out of the Wild Card.
The bottom line is, nobody would care if the Brewers weren't competitive. Want to keep the Brewers from "disrespecting" your team? Simple. Beat' em (hasn't exactly been difficult this year).
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Are people SERIOUSLY asking if fans would be mad if they did this as the AWAY team?! Are you guys SERIOUSLY THAT STUPID?! You DO realize that if Prince had hit a home run in the 12th inning as the AWAY team, there would still be another half inning to play, right?! So, the game would NOT be over. That is one of the dumbest questions I have seen in this thread, and there have been PLENTY!
Also, what is the difference between what the Brewers did and what is normally done after a walk-off home run? That there was actually some originality to it? How is jumping on home plate for 5 minutes not disrespectful, but this is? The game is over, they aren't taunting anybody, they are celebrating a win and having a bit of fun. If you think that the Brewers should act like they have been there and that it was disrespectful, then why don't all teams act like they have been there when there is a walk-off? If you want teams to act like they have been there, then after walk-off home runs, the player should run around the bases, touch home plate with the team waiting with fist pumps at the 1st step of the dugout, and then they should walk onto the field, get in a line, and high 5 each other, followed by a walk to the clubhouse. Some people on here are absolutely ridiculous. Don't hold double standards, if this is disrespectful, then so is the normal practice after a walk-off home run.
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wadesworld - who are you referencing when talking about doing this as the AWAY team because this has been cleared up for awhile - if you are referencing me, go back and re-read my posts
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“Yeah, one of the most joyful players in the game," Cameron said, referring to Hunter. "You know, obviously, I didn’t really like that too much. You play the game and try to have fun this that and the other and then when you have fun somebody’s got something to say. We weren’t on nobody’s else’s field. We were on our home field.
Nobody said nothing when we started the original bounce with Barry Larkin, Greg Vaughn, and some of the older guys in Cincinnati in ’99 when we were the young kids pretty much in a race down the stretch. It was 'Hey, they're having fun.' All of the sudden we fall out of the race a little bit. Nobody said we had to stop having fun and keep playing hard.”
"Hey, man we just went extra innings. Everybody knows it’s an emotional game. You can’t really show your emotions because of the, should say, rules of the game without winning a championship or something like that. To play a 162 game schedule and somebody shows a little bit of emotion and has fun with it. Everyone loves it. Everybody in Milwaukee loves it, so so what. Who cares? We didn’t show nobody up. It wasn’t like we pointed at their dugout or anything like that. Anything. When we lose, we walk off the field. We don’t stay on the field and watch what people are doing.”
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/58108967.html
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So let me get this straight, one of the guys who was beyond outraged at the Brewers taking advantage of one of the rules/rights afforded them by the labor agreement to try to increase a players trade value to improve their team because it messes with his free agency, has no issue with another team throwing at another player's head and messing with his career/health/life because why, they got their feelings hurt?
At least you aren't hypocritical.
How can you compare the J.J. Hardy situation to this?
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I'm a Cardinals fan, and I don't really care about the untucking, but I do think that the Brewers (especially Braun and Fielder) are whiny little punks, and they deserve every plunking they get.
I'm taking extra joy in watching the Brewers suck this year. Maybe you can make it to the playoffs again in another 25 years.
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I'm a Cardinals fan, and I don't really care about the untucking, but I do think that the Brewers (especially Braun and Fielder) are whiny little punks, and they deserve every plunking they get.
I'm taking extra joy in watching the Brewers suck this year. Maybe you can make it to the playoffs again in another 25 years.
just like we take extra joy in watching Albert Pujols get plunked for thinking he is the policeman of the Central. Just because you are the best player in baseball doesn't mean you dictate the rules.
as for the shirt untucking thing, it is a TRIBUTE TO MIKE CAMERON'S FATHER. Not a taunt, not an insult, it is done for Cam's father... but why not jump to conclusions rather than do a second of fact checking!
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just like we take extra joy in watching Albert Pujols get plunked for thinking he is the policeman of the Central. Just because you are the best player in baseball doesn't mean you dictate the rules.
as for the shirt untucking thing, it is a TRIBUTE TO MIKE CAMERON'S FATHER. Not a taunt, not an insult, it is done for Cam's father... but why not jump to conclusions rather than do a second of fact checking!
I specifically said that I have no problem with the shirt untucking, settle down there champ. I realize that its a tribute and I have no problem with it.
Nothing of this has anything to do with the fact that Prince Fielder and Ryan Braun are showboating punks.
Also when has Albert Pujols ever claimed to be the policeman of the Central?
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You do realize where the earhole is located don't you? Which is it?
Depends on the person, so many have their heads up their ass that the earhole is lower. :)
(http://bp1.blogger.com/_fVT7FGTuVaQ/RdIzyNmhFBI/AAAAAAAAADA/3KidnSXowWs/s320/head-up-your-ass.jpg)
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I specifically said that I have no problem with the shirt untucking, settle down there champ. I realize that its a tribute and I have no problem with it.
Nothing of this has anything to do with the fact that Prince Fielder and Ryan Braun are showboating punks.
Also when has Albert Pujols ever claimed to be the policeman of the Central?
He took umbrage to Villanueva and his fist pump after a big play.
He's constantly quoted in the articles that the beat writers for the St Louis Dispatch (I think) about the shirt untucking and admiration of HRs.
Pujols admires his hits just as much (if not more often) than Fielder or Braun ever have.
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Pujols admires his hits just as much (if not more often) than Fielder or Braun ever have.
That's only because he hits more than they do...
Hey I realize that Pujols admires his homeruns and that he probably can be irksome to you guys. But I'm just saying that you should realize that your guys doing the same thing is probably going to instill some of the same loathing of your guys in opposing fans and that your guys aren't just a lovable bunch of jokesters who everyone should like. So congrats, your team is now the Chad Johnson of Major League Baseball. Everyone hates Chad Johnson. (Note: my hatred of Chad Johnson prevents me from referring to him as whatever the hell he wants to be referred to as now.)
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As I've said before, the Cardinals think they are so much holier than everyone else. They are quickly becoming my least favorite team. Cubs fans are ignorant and it is impossible to have a legitimate conversation about the Cubs and any other team with them, but at least they aren't CONSTANTLY (they do sometimes and it's a bit ridiculous) complaining about the Brewers having some fun.
Why do Cardinals players (and analysts) talk openly about how the Brewers are the least classy team in baseball? They always talk about how unsportsmanlike it is for them to untuck their jerseys when it's a tribute to Cameron's dad. I guarantee you that it has more to do with the fact that the Brewers absolutely owned the Cardinals last year and won the Wild Card, keeping them out of the playoffs than it is anything else. Pujols gets pissed about Villanueva, Pujols gets pissed that Prince and Braun watch their home runs. It makes no sense. I'm 99% sure that there hasn't been a home run that Pujols HAS NOT sat and watched more than anybody else in his career.
Then there is the whole manager situation, who is known to tell his pitchers to retaliate and hit an opposing batter, and, oh, falls asleep behind the wheel at a stoplight because he is so drunk. Really, really classy stuff there. Not to mention a catcher who just undresses behind home plate when a call doesn't go his way. Again, super classy.
And the fans. I went to 2 games this weekend and the fans are just overly obnoxious for no reason. It's not like Cubs fans, who get crap talked to them and then they start being loud. They're just loud without anybody saying anything. People make fun of people for being fat in Wisconsin, but all I saw were fat people in red who would start screaming "Get out, get out!" at the top of their lungs on a routine fly ball that is about 50 feet from even making it to the warning track.
But yes, the Cardinals are super classy and the Brewers are absolute a$$holes.
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That's only because he hits more than they do...
Hey I realize that Pujols admires his homeruns and that he probably can be irksome to you guys. But I'm just saying that you should realize that your guys doing the same thing is probably going to instill some of the same loathing of your guys in opposing fans and that your guys aren't just a lovable bunch of jokesters who everyone should like. So congrats, your team is now the Chad Johnson of Major League Baseball. Everyone hates Chad Johnson. (Note: my hatred of Chad Johnson prevents me from referring to him as whatever the hell he wants to be referred to as now.)
right, so its ok when your guys does it but not when ours do.
I see your point.
I honestly could care less about celebrations.
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That's only because he hits more than they do...
Hey I realize that Pujols admires his homeruns and that he probably can be irksome to you guys. But I'm just saying that you should realize that your guys doing the same thing is probably going to instill some of the same loathing of your guys in opposing fans and that your guys aren't just a lovable bunch of jokesters who everyone should like. So congrats, your team is now the Chad Johnson of Major League Baseball. Everyone hates Chad Johnson. (Note: my hatred of Chad Johnson prevents me from referring to him as whatever the hell he wants to be referred to as now.)
Woah woah woah...Chad Johnson? Really?
So you're telling me that you wouldn't want either one of them on your team?
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I'm 99% sure that there hasn't been a home run that Pujols HAS NOT sat and watched more than anybody else in his career.
And he has had two more chances to do so again today. I think he should make like Joe Horn and stash a polaroid camera under home plate and give the photo to the opposing pitcher after touching the plate.
Or if he wants to be like Nordburg, he can hide it under 3rd base.
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right, so its ok when your guys does it but not when ours do.
I see your point.
I honestly could care less about celebrations.
Exactly. Its OK because he's our guy.
I understand why you guys like Fielder and Braun. And I understand why you don't like Pujols. But the reasons that you don't like it when Pujols does it are some of the reasons why I think that Fielder and Braun are punks. Also the fact that Fielder will go after people in their clubhouse instead of on the field.
As I've said before, the Cardinals think they are so much holier than everyone else.
Why do Cardinals players (and analysts) talk openly about how the Brewers are the least classy team in baseball?
They complained about it once last year. It is kind of a show off move, even if it is a tribute to Mike Cameron's dad. There hasn't been one complaint about it this year.
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Woah woah woah...Chad Johnson? Really?
So you're telling me that you wouldn't want either one of them on your team?
Well we're already covered at first and left field, so no.
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"Cubs fans are ignorant and it is impossible to have a legitimate conversation about the Cubs and any other team with them"
Nice generalization - Every Cubs fan is ignorant, while every Brewer fan is all-knowledgable. I believe there was a legitimate conversation going on on this board before you came on and started calling people stupid because you read the posts wrong.
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"Cubs fans are ignorant and it is impossible to have a legitimate conversation about the Cubs and any other team with them"
Nice generalization - Every Cubs fan is ignorant, while every Brewer fan is all-knowledgable. I believe there was a legitimate conversation going on on this board before you came on and started calling people stupid because you read the posts wrong.
Don't forget that all Cardinals fans are a$$holes who get upset about the Brewers untucking their shirts.
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Well we're already covered at first and left field, so no.
I was just asking rhetorically since I think the Chad Johnson comparison is way off...
EDIT: Braun has exhibited nothing but a "team-first" attitude, if you don't like his swagger then don't let him take you deep.
That is the opposite of Chad Johnson.
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who ever said everyone?
exactly. no one did. talk about wild generalizations.
addtionally, did you actually read my comment where I said, "I could care less about celebrations"?
meaning, I don't care if Pujols celebrates, I don't care WHO celebrates, its fine with me.
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Man, some of you must be the among the most boring people in the world. The Brewers are having fun playing out a meaningless stretch of baseball at home. Personally, I didn't have a huge problem with Jerry Smith running around in front of his hometown crowd after hitting a game winner. I would have had even less of a problem if he had done it at Louisville. Nobody seems to care when Tiger does his boisterous fist pumps or throws his hat down after winning a tournement. How about when Al jumped on the scorer's table when MU beat Wisconsin or Brandi Chastain ripping her shirt off after winning the world cup? Athletes often celebrate when big moments occur because at the end of the day they are PLAYING A GAME.
I did have a problem with Prince charging the clubhouse. That was just plain stupid and uncalled for. But to link that incident with this one makes no sense and is the comparison is only being made out of conveinence.
What's convenient is you not wanting to link Fielder's incidents. I think it's pretty straight forward linking behavorial-related incidents from the same player in one month. He felt disrepected in LA then pulls this garbage. Can't have it both ways.
Do you not understand what it means to cross the line? Celebration is one thing....and is expected.....going over the top in doing so and acting like a clown in the process only causes problems, bad blood, shows a bad example and makes you look like a fool. If you don't understand that I can't help you.
Al jumping on the scorers table after beating WI was over the top too....you don't think so? How many other coaches have you seen do that? I'm pretty sure he didn't choreograph it in practice in the Old Gym.
It's pretty common for soccer players to take off their jerseys after scoring a goal....happens all over the world.
Do you think it's ok for a WR to do an end zone dance when their team is down 42-14 in the 4th quarter too? You only had a minor problem with Jerry Smith pulling off his jersey and running around the BC? Maybe...but he's a college kid. When Tiger does his thing he's celebrating his accomplishments....not at the expense of another player....have you ever seen him to do that in match play?
Again, how many choreograhped walk-off HR routines have you ever seen? I'll take the under on 1.
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What's convenient is you not wanting to link Fielder's incidents. I think it's pretty straight forward linking behavorial-related incidents from the same player in one month. He felt disrepected in LA then pulls this garbage. Can't have it both ways.
Do you not understand what it means to cross the line? Celebration is one thing....and is expected.....going over the top in doing so and acting like a clown in the process only causes problems, bad blood, shows a bad example and makes you look like a fool. If you don't understand that I can't help you.
Al jumping on the scorers table after beating WI was over the top too....you don't think so? How many other coaches have you seen do that? I'm pretty sure he didn't choreograph it in practice in the Old Gym.
It's pretty common for soccer players to take off their jerseys after scoring a goal....happens all over the world.
Do you think it's ok for a WR to do an end zone dance when their team is down 42-14 in the 4th quarter too? You only had a minor problem with Jerry Smith pulling off his jersey and running around the BC? Maybe...but he's a college kid. When Tiger does his thing he's celebrating his accomplishments....not at the expense of another player....have you ever seen him to do that in match play?
Again, how many choreograhped walk-off HR routines have you ever seen? I'll take the under on 1.
Watch Tiger when he does something wrong, I think he's a bad example. He makes a fool out of himself and gets a free pass from the media every time.
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who ever said everyone?
exactly. no one did. talk about wild generalizations.
addtionally, did you actually read my comment where I said, "I could care less about celebrations"?
meaning, I don't care if Pujols celebrates, I don't care WHO celebrates, its fine with me.
Wadesworld did - that's why I started my post with a quotation from his post - when someone says "Cubs fans are ignorant", that implies all of them correct?
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I was just asking rhetorically since I think the Chad Johnson comparison is way off...
EDIT: Braun has exhibited nothing but a "team-first" attitude, if you don't like his swagger then don't let him take you deep.
That is the opposite of Chad Johnson.
Fair enough, he probably would be a great guy to have on the team. The swagger does get to me. And his general cockiness does too, but it probably wouldn't bother me as much if he was on the Cards.
But personally I'd rather have Pujols and Holliday. Maybe I'm biased.
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Watch Tiger when he does something wrong, I think he's a bad example. He makes a fool out of himself and gets a free pass from the media every time.
I don't disagree at all....I don't think he's a good example and his cry ass routine has grown tiresome...my point was that his celebrating is self-centered....not disrepectful to an opponent. (i.e. in match play)
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Fair enough, he probably would be a great guy to have on the team. The swagger does get to me. And his general cockiness does too, but it probably wouldn't bother me as much if he was on the Cards.
But personally I'd rather have Pujols and Holliday. Maybe I'm biased.
I have said this to buddies before, "If Braun was on another team in the Central I would probably hate him."
I'd rather have your pitching coach...
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I don't disagree at all....I don't think he's a good example and his cry ass routine has grown tiresome...my point was that his celebrating is self-centered....not disrepectful to an opponent. (i.e. in match play)
I see your point.
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What's convenient is you not wanting to link Fielder's incidents. I think it's pretty straight forward linking behavorial-related incidents from the same player in one month. He felt disrepected in LA then pulls this garbage. Can't have it both ways. I said I thought what Fielder did a couple weeks ago was stupid. I fail to see how that action should influence the discussion on this celebration though.
Do you not understand what it means to cross the line? Celebration is one thing....and is expected.....going over the top in doing so and acting like a clown in the process only causes problems, bad blood, shows a bad example and makes you look like a fool. If you don't understand that I can't help you. If you don't understand that the Brewers are HAVING FUN PLAYING A GAME, then I can't help you. They didn't show up anybody, they just had a unique celebration. There was no finger pointing, staring, or talking towards the other team. Guys like Counsell, Cameron, Hoffman, and Weathers participating should tell you all you need to know about whether that celebration was foolish or crossed the line. Did you have a problem with Soriano's celebration? (I'm too lazy to go back and look if you commented on it)
Al jumping on the scorers table after beating WI was over the top too....you don't think so? How many other coaches have you seen do that? I'm pretty sure he didn't choreograph it in practice in the Old Gym. Yep it was over the top. I wasn't alive at the time, but if I was I'm pretty sure I would have been a big fan of it. Did you dislike it? Since it wasn't set-up before does that make it better?
It's pretty common for soccer players to take off their jerseys after scoring a goal....happens all over the world. Since everyone else does it, does that make it okay? If everybody starts doing a Brewers type celebration will that make it okay? (btw, I like the soccer celebrations)
Do you think it's ok for a WR to do an end zone dance when their team is down 42-14 in the 4th quarter too? You only had a minor problem with Jerry Smith pulling off his jersey and running around the BC? Maybe...but he's a college kid. When Tiger does his thing he's celebrating his accomplishments....not at the expense of another player....have you ever seen him to do that in match play? No, I don't think unnecessary and over the top celebrations when the game is still going on are ok (ie-TO dancing on the star). Showing some unbridled joy, such as Jerry Smith, is fine by me, especially if its on your home court/field. The Brewers game was over and they were celebrating an accomplishment (albeit a small one), just like Tiger. Yes, I have seen Tiger do this in match play on many, many occasions.
Again, how many choreograhped walk-off HR routines have you ever seen? I'll take the under on 1. Zero before Sunday. Does that make it wrong? The Super Bowl Shuffle was choreographed, did you have a problem with that?
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To answer your question, the Super Bowl Shuffle may have been the gayest thing I've seen in my life short of the Rams dance video (gloriously captured here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix081prSiNc )
In my mind...if you dig choreography.....seek dancing with the stars. Sports is where spontaneous emotions should rule the day, not whether you're hitting your spots and lining up on the right X on the ground so that it all goes off properly in some contrived. :)
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You don't understand discussing/linking incidents involving the same player that involve questionable behavior?
Yes, I understand HAVING FUN PLAYING A GAME.....do you understand PROFESSIONALISM? These aren't kids in little league...they're grown men being paid millions...with thousands of people paying to see them everyday they work. You don't think that the Giants viewed that as being "showed up? " And to celebrate like that after salvaging the last game of the series?! How does those veterans participating in the celebration have anything to do with it being appropriate? Terrell Owens is a verteran too. Show me one example of Soriano doing anything remotely close to this.....with the rest of the Cubs participating.
Of course you would've been a big fan of Al jumping on the table....I presume you're an MU fan....makes it easier to tolerate....does that make it appropriate?
You brought up the soccer analogy...not me. Unfortunately, yes, if other teams start pulling that crap that the Brewers did then, yes, it will become part of the game.....that's the problem. Just like all the BS end zone celebrations, sack celebrations, etc...tiresome.
You must be watching a different Tiger than the rest of the world if you've seen him take his hat off and throw it down on the ground after beating a player head-to-head in match play....it's never happened. If you're fine with Jerry Smith's celebration that night then so be it....it was over the top and many people thought so. I'm not sure that I've ever seen a player rip his jersey off after hitting a game winning shot.
Just because the game was officially over also doesn't make it appropriate.....was is appropriate when the Michigan State football team stuck their flag in the ground at ND stadium at the 50 yard line when the game was over?
The Super Bowl shuffle was recorded in a studio....on an off day....for charity....are you seriously comparing that to what Fielder and the Brewers did on the field after winning a meaningless game?
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You don't understand discussing/linking incidents involving the same player that involve questionable behavior?
Yes, I understand HAVING FUN PLAYING A GAME.....do you understand PROFESSIONALISM? These aren't kids in little league...they're grown men being paid millions...with thousands of people paying to see them everyday they work. You don't think that the Giants viewed that as being "showed up? " And to celebrate like that after salvaging the last game of the series?! How does those veterans participating in the celebration have anything to do with it being appropriate? Terrell Owens is a verteran too. Show me one example of Soriano doing anything remotely close to this.....with the rest of the Cubs participating.
Of course you would've been a big fan of Al jumping on the table....I presume you're an MU fan....makes it easier to tolerate....does that make it appropriate?
You brought up the soccer analogy...not me. Unfortunately, yes, if other teams start pulling that crap that the Brewers did then, yes, it will become part of the game.....that's the problem. Just like all the BS end zone celebrations, sack celebrations, etc...tiresome.
You must be watching a different Tiger than the rest of the world if you've seen him take his hat off and throw it down on the ground after beating a player head-to-head in match play....it's never happened. If you're fine with Jerry Smith's celebration that night then so be it....it was over the top and many people thought so. I'm not sure that I've ever seen a player rip his jersey off after hitting a game winning shot.
Just because the game was officially over also doesn't make it appropriate.....was is appropriate when the Michigan State football team stuck their flag in the ground at ND stadium at the 50 yard line when the game was over?
The Super Bowl shuffle was recorded in a studio....on an off day....for charity....are you seriously comparing that to what Fielder and the Brewers did on the field after winning a meaningless game?
Translation: I am a fun hater.
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Translation: I am a fun hater.
Translation: I love unsportsmanlike conduct and inappropriate behavior.
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Translation: I am a fun hater.
+1
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Translation: I love unsportsmanlike conduct and inappropriate behavior.
Translation: Waaaaaaaaahhhhhh!
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People just view sports differently, some are old school, some are not....some in the middle.
I have a question for IAMMarquette and Hards....do you think the Steroids issue in baseball is overblown?
I ask this because most people I talk to about celebrations and "the way things are today" could give a rip about the steroids. Conversely, those that think the steroids issue is a big deal are also the same types of folks that believe things like the celebrations and the "ME" attitude in sports is problematic.
I'm curious where you stand.
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People just view sports differently, some are old school, some are not....some in the middle.
I have a question for IAMMarquette and Hards....do you think the Steroids issue in baseball is overblown?
I ask this because most people I talk to about celebrations and "the way things are today" could give a rip about the steroids. Conversely, those that think the steroids issue is a big deal are also the same types of folks that believe things like the celebrations and the "ME" attitude in sports is problematic.
I'm curious where you stand.
Absolutely against steroids. Not crazy about excessive celebrations. Maybe I'm seeing this one through blue-and-gold glasses, but I really don't have a problem with the latest walk-off celebration.
I understand that it's situational...actually, I think that's the key. Think about it:
The Brewers are all but mathematically eliminated from the postseason. They've been struggling since May. They won a home game on a walk off (I know it's redundant) in the 12th inning. Let the guys have some fun. They are, after all, playing a game.
That's not to say they aren't working; in fact, I'd wager that professional athletes are among the hardest-working people on earth. I'm dead serious. But at the same time, they're playing a game. They're playing to win (channeling Herm Edwards). They should be allowed to enjoy it when they do.
'94 points to Tiger Woods as an example of someone who celebrates his own accomplishments, but not at the expense of others. I have a couple of problems with that statement:
1) What about the Brewers' celebration leads you to believe that it was done to spite the Giants specifically? If you believe that it was, then you also believe that,
2) Tiger's celebrations are no different in that his victories, like the Brewers, or any other competitor in any other sport, come at the expense of his opponents. Do you think Rocco Mediate was offended when Tiger slammed his cap after sinking the big putt to go to a playoff? Do you think Rocco Mediate believed Tiger's celebration of Tiger's big play (and eventual victory) was intended to needle Rocco Mediate? I certainly hope you don't, because that's absurd.
How is this Brewers celebration any different?
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I understand that they involve the same player, but I do not see what relevance the Dodger incident has in this discussion. Whether that incident was right or wrong (I think it was stupid) should not factor into determining whether this celebration was right or wrong.
In reference to Tiger, I was referring to the fist pumps that he's done a million times, not the hat throwing which he's only done once (that I can recall).
I brought up those players because nearly every baseball fan would consider them all very professional.
I'll ask again, did you have a problem with Soriano or Al's antics?
You've never seen a basketball player rip his shirt off after hitting a game winner? Really? NBA guys do it all the time. In fact, I've seen Wade do it on multiple occasions (he usually has something on underneath and tosses his jersey into the stands).
The Super Bowl Shuffle was a choreographed dance video made before the team had even done anything in the playoffs. It's prolly one of the most arrogant and cocky things any team has ever done (even if it was for charity). If your ok with that but not ok with what the Brewers did, then you need to look up the definition of hypocrite.
I thought the Michigan State thing was a little classless, mainly because a) It was meant to show up the ND players b) It was done at ND
Once again, the Brewers did it at home, after the game ended, in their home park.
I'm done debating this issue with you. I like for sports to be fun and I think what the Brewers did was absolutely done in that spirit. If you disagree, there's not much I can do to change your opinion.
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Translation: Waaaaaaaaahhhhhh!
Very well said....eloquent and well crafted.
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Not crazy about excessive celebrations. Maybe I'm seeing this one through blue-and-gold glasses, but I really don't have a problem with the latest walk-off celebration.
Really? Which is it? You're not crazy about excess celebrations or you don't have a a problem with the Brewers walk off celebration?
'94 points to Tiger Woods as an example of someone who celebrates his own accomplishments, but not at the expense of others. I have a couple of problems with that statement:
1) What about the Brewers' celebration leads you to believe that it was done to spite the Giants specifically? If you believe that it was, then you also believe that,
2) Tiger's celebrations are no different in that his victories, like the Brewers, or any other competitor in any other sport, come at the expense of his opponents. Do you think Rocco Mediate was offended when Tiger slammed his cap after sinking the big putt to go to a playoff? Do you think Rocco Mediate believed Tiger's celebration of Tiger's big play (and eventual victory) was intended to needle Rocco Mediate? I certainly hope you don't, because that's absurd.
How is this Brewers celebration any different?
Did you even watch last year's US Open? The only time Tiger's hat came off his head was to shake hands with his playing partner. In golf, unless it's the Ryder or Presidents Cup, the only thing to celebrate is individual accomplishments...it's you against the field. The only other sport similar in that respect is auto racing. When Castroneves climbs the fence in Indy is he disrespecting the other drivers?
No, I don't think Rocco was bothered because they had a camera and microphone in his face during the broadcast when Tiger's putt went in....how you can continue and try to compare Tiger's celebrations to a team choreographed routine is amazing.
Did you see how Tiger celebrated his win on Monday with a hand shake? Imagine if he and Stevie went into a dance routine on the green after winning his next major...would you think it was ridiculous or they were just having fun?
I honestly cannot believe people are defending what went on here....if the Cubs did anything close to that I'd be embarrassed....I must hate fun.
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Really? Which is it? You're not crazy about excess celebrations or you don't have a a problem with the Brewers walk off celebration?
Uhh, maybe it's that the Brewers walk-off celebration wasn't excessive, so he had no problem with it, but he has a problem with excessive celebrations? I could be wrong, but that is what my best guess would be.
I would like to know what is the difference between what the Brewers did and what is normally done after a walk-off home run? That there was actually some originality to it? How is jumping on home plate for 5 minutes not disrespectful, but this is? The game is over, they aren't taunting anybody, they are celebrating a win and having a bit of fun. If you think that the Brewers should act like they have been there and that it was disrespectful, then why don't all teams act like they have been there when there is a walk-off? If you want teams to act like they have been there, then after walk-off home runs, the player should run around the bases, touch home plate with the team waiting with fist bumps at the 1st step of the dugout, and then they should walk onto the field, get in a line, and high 5 each other, followed by a walk to the clubhouse. Some people on here are absolutely ridiculous. Don't hold double standards, if this is disrespectful, then so is the normal practice after a walk-off home run.
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Absolutely against steroids. Not crazy about excessive celebrations. Maybe I'm seeing this one through blue-and-gold glasses, but I really don't have a problem with the latest walk-off celebration.
I understand that it's situational...actually, I think that's the key. Think about it:
The Brewers are all but mathematically eliminated from the postseason. They've been struggling since May. They won a home game on a walk off (I know it's redundant) in the 12th inning. Let the guys have some fun. They are, after all, playing a game.
That's not to say they aren't working; in fact, I'd wager that professional athletes are among the hardest-working people on earth. I'm dead serious. But at the same time, they're playing a game. They're playing to win (channeling Herm Edwards). They should be allowed to enjoy it when they do.
'94 points to Tiger Woods as an example of someone who celebrates his own accomplishments, but not at the expense of others. I have a couple of problems with that statement:
1) What about the Brewers' celebration leads you to believe that it was done to spite the Giants specifically? If you believe that it was, then you also believe that,
2) Tiger's celebrations are no different in that his victories, like the Brewers, or any other competitor in any other sport, come at the expense of his opponents. Do you think Rocco Mediate was offended when Tiger slammed his cap after sinking the big putt to go to a playoff? Do you think Rocco Mediate believed Tiger's celebration of Tiger's big play (and eventual victory) was intended to needle Rocco Mediate? I certainly hope you don't, because that's absurd.
How is this Brewers celebration any different?
completely agree.
hate steroids, loved that the team was still able to have fun despite being out of the playoffs... shows that they care about the game, and aren't just going through the motions.
and yes, 94, you are a fun hater, and wade actually makes a valid point.
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Part of the problem I have, is that the Brewers, like always, are going to complain when there is retaliation.
It's simple. If you don't want get hit in the head. Don't piss people off.
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Really? Which is it? You're not crazy about excess celebrations or you don't have a a problem with the Brewers walk off celebration?
Did you even watch last year's US Open? The only time Tiger's hat came off his head was to shake hands with his playing partner. In golf, unless it's the Ryder or Presidents Cup, the only thing to celebrate is individual accomplishments...it's you against the field. The only other sport similar in that respect is auto racing. When Castroneves climbs the fence in Indy is he disrespecting the other drivers?
No, I don't think Rocco was bothered because they had a camera and microphone in his face during the broadcast when Tiger's putt went in....how you can continue and try to compare Tiger's celebrations to a team choreographed routine is amazing.
Did you see how Tiger celebrated his win on Monday with a hand shake? Imagine if he and Stevie went into a dance routine on the green after winning his next major...would you think it was ridiculous or they were just having fun?
I honestly cannot believe people are defending what went on here....if the Cubs did anything close to that I'd be embarrassed....I must hate fun.
Fine. I mixed up my tournaments. The point still stands: do you think Tiger threw his hat after winning the Arnold Palmer Invitational to show up the guys he beat? Do you really, REALLY think that the Brewers did their celebration to show up the Giants? Hell, do you think TO did the Sharpie thing to show up the 9ers or whoever it was he was playing in that game? No. He didn't. Tiger did it because he was excited. The Brewers did it to have some fun. TO did it because he's a jackass. The one thing each of these celebrations, choreographed or otherwise, have in common is that they were and are only about the persons who performed them.
And Wadesworld, thanks for clarifying that I can be against EXCESSIVE celebrations but be OK with the Fielder Earthquake.
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Ken Macha has twice this year asked for pitchers to be suspended for throwing at his guys. How about you just tell your guys to stop being clowns so they don't get thrown at.
If your going to do that fine. But don't complain when you get drilled in the ear hole your next time up.
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Uhh, maybe it's that the Brewers walk-off celebration wasn't excessive, so he had no problem with it, but he has a problem with excessive celebrations? I could be wrong, but that is what my best guess would be.
I would like to know what is the difference between what the Brewers did and what is normally done after a walk-off home run? That there was actually some originality to it? How is jumping on home plate for 5 minutes not disrespectful, but this is? The game is over, they aren't taunting anybody, they are celebrating a win and having a bit of fun. If you think that the Brewers should act like they have been there and that it was disrespectful, then why don't all teams act like they have been there when there is a walk-off? If you want teams to act like they have been there, then after walk-off home runs, the player should run around the bases, touch home plate with the team waiting with fist bumps at the 1st step of the dugout, and then they should walk onto the field, get in a line, and high 5 each other, followed by a walk to the clubhouse. Some people on here are absolutely ridiculous. Don't hold double standards, if this is disrespectful, then so is the normal practice after a walk-off home run.
If you honestly don't think that was an excessive celebration you need to take the homer glasses off....if the Cubs did this you'd be all over it with youtube clips, nicknames and espn power rankings.
You don't see a difference between what the Brewers did to a 'normal' walk-off celebration? The difference is they looked like fools. There are plenty who think so. Should they stop having fun playing the game because they're in 4th place? Of course not. I'm pretty sure I could muster up some fun if I was making $10M a year playing baseball. Original or not, it was ridiculous. They got back to 4 games under .500 and celebrated like they accomplished something.
All teams don't "act like they've been there" with normal walk-off HR celebrations because it's rare and exciting enough on its own.....choreography is usually not necessary.
They were clearly waiting for this moment to happen for quite some time...it's sad. You can picture Fielder saying, "remember guys the next time I hit a walk-off HR we're going to do that thing we practiced ok? So be ready."
Maybe Jerry Kelly will do a dance routine or jump in the pond if he sinks a putt on 18 at the BMW this weekend to tie for 9th...it would be original. (I know you have a tough time with analogies, so humor me.)
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completely agree.
hate steroids, loved that the team was still able to have fun despite being out of the playoffs... shows that they care about the game, and aren't just going through the motions.
and yes, 94, you are a fun hater, and wade actually makes a valid point.
Hards....from reading your posts you seem like a barrel of monkeys yourself. Sounds like you're suprised wadesworld made a valid point in your opinion...I understand.
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Uhh, maybe it's that the Brewers walk-off celebration wasn't excessive, so he had no problem with it, but he has a problem with excessive celebrations?
Are we talking about the same celebration?
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What was excessive about the celebration? I still haven't seen anybody explain it to me. That it was choreographed? So all handshakes with teammates are excessive? Or are those spur of the moment and they keep, by some crazy coincidence, coming up with the exact same handshake every time? If someone can give me a good reason for why it was excessive or disrespectful I might consider the argument, but all I see are questions about my explanation without 1 of their own.
And what analogies do I have trouble understanding? It's funny that I'm the only 1 who makes personal attacks in this thread and no Cubs fans do that. Er...?
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Fine. I mixed up my tournaments. The point still stands: do you think Tiger threw his hat after winning the Arnold Palmer Invitational to show up the guys he beat? Do you really, REALLY think that the Brewers did their celebration to show up the Giants? Hell, do you think TO did the Sharpie thing to show up the 9ers or whoever it was he was playing in that game? No. He didn't. Tiger did it because he was excited. The Brewers did it to have some fun. TO did it because he's a jackass. The one thing each of these celebrations, choreographed or otherwise, have in common is that they were and are only about the persons who performed them.
And Wadesworld, thanks for clarifying that I can be against EXCESSIVE celebrations but be OK with the Fielder Earthquake.
We're obviously never going to agree on this but, again, I don't understand how you're trying to compare Tiger sinking a 20+ foot putt on Sunday on 18 to win the tournament....for his 5th tournament win in a row....he wasn't even playing with the guy that came in second to the Brewers thing.
No, I don't think the Brewers were trying to show up the Giants intentionally but how do you think it was taken? TO is a fool....which is why I brought him up...if you're a great player people will notice. How many end zone dances did Barry Sanders, Jerry Rice or Walter Payton ever do?
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What was excessive about the celebration?
I'd say 30 grown men choreographing a walk-off home-run celebration is excessive. The fact it was even planned is excessive.
You realize it wouldn't be all over the news if it wasn't excessive.
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I'd say 30 grown men choreographing a walk-off home-run celebration is excessive. The fact it was even planned is excessive.
You realize it wouldn't be all over the news if it wasn't excessive.
I'd rather have that on the news than say, fans pouring beer on a player during a game or making racial slurs to your own RF...
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I'd say 30 grown men choreographing a walk-off home-run celebration is excessive. The fact it was even planned is excessive.
You realize it wouldn't be all over the news if it wasn't excessive.
What news? ESPN? I think it probably would, as it was a walk-off home run by one of the biggest stars in the MLB against a team that is in 2nd in the NL Wild Card race.
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I'd rather have that on the news than say, fans pouring beer on a player during a game or making racial slurs to your own RF...
I wouldn't go too far with the racial slurs accusation....I mean, it's Milton Bradley.
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I wouldn't go too far with the racial slurs accusation....I mean, it's Milton Bradley.
It isn't only Bradley that has brought it up.
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I'd rather have that on the news than say, fans pouring beer on a player during a game or making racial slurs to your own RF...
There is a clear distinction here - drunken fans (which every team has) vs. the players.
EDIT: I forgot to add that as a Cubs fan I am embarrassed that somebody dumped a beer on Victorino and perhaps called Bradley some racial slurs. (I say perhaps because there is no proof, however, Jacque Jones and Dusty Baker have said this has happened as well).
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I'd say 30 grown men choreographing a walk-off home-run celebration is excessive. The fact it was even planned is excessive.
You realize it wouldn't be all over the news if it wasn't excessive.
+1 Dancing with the Stars
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There is a clear distinction here - drunken fans (which every team has) vs. the players.
EDIT: I forgot to add that as a Cubs fan I am embarrassed that somebody dumped a beer on Victorino and perhaps called Bradley some racial slurs. (I say perhaps because there is no proof, however, Jacque Jones and Dusty Baker have said this has happened as well).
I only brought it up because us Brewers fans are perfect.
Although, the beer thing isn't new. Braun was getting things (may not have been beer specifically) tossed at him last year at Wrigley.
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There is a clear distinction here - drunken fans (which every team has) vs. the players.
EDIT: I forgot to add that as a Cubs fan I am embarrassed that somebody dumped a beer on Victorino and perhaps called Bradley some racial slurs. (I say perhaps because there is no proof, however, Jacque Jones and Dusty Baker have said this has happened as well).
I for one want to jump all over the Cubs fans for those incidents. God I wish I could, but I really can't because you are correct in that drunken fans with inward racism and jealousy do lousy things.
I remember a few years ago there being a piece down on Theirry Henry in the EPL and how strongly he was criticized for his color, especially on the road. It's sad but true.
I will say, however, that the midday drunken baffoonery is most previlant at Wrigley Field, and that one incident in one year someone would be able to brush it off; but with multiple incidents during multiple years directed towards someone's race rather than calling them a "bum" because of their poor average does show poorly on not only the fans of a franchise, but the franchise itself for not trying harder to give a damn about the problem. (Couldn't refuse the jab)
That is far worse than a team choreagraphed celebration. At this point last year I would have said the Brewer's celebration to be corny or out of taste-but at this point, anything works for me to try and kick them in the ahs a bit and help the team get motivated to finish off the season on a high note.
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I for one want to jump all over the Cubs fans for those incidents. God I wish I could, but I really can't because you are correct in that drunken fans with inward racism and jealousy do lousy things.
I remember a few years ago there being a piece down on Theirry Henry in the EPL and how strongly he was criticized for his color, especially on the road. It's sad but true.
I will say, however, that the midday drunken baffoonery is most previlant at Wrigley Field, and that one incident in one year someone would be able to brush it off; but with multiple incidents during multiple years directed towards someone's race rather than calling them a "bum" because of their poor average does show poorly on not only the fans of a franchise, but the franchise itself for not trying harder to give a damn about the problem. (Couldn't refuse the jab)
That is far worse than a team choreagraphed celebration. At this point last year I would have said the Brewer's celebration to be corny or out of taste-but at this point, anything works for me to try and kick them in the ahs a bit and help the team get motivated to finish off the season on a high note.
The guy that threw the beer was caught (I stopped following and do not know what has happened since). As far as what people say in the stands, it's pretty hard to regulate unless someone tells the usher immediately. (Example - I went to a baseball game at Miller Park between the Brewers and the Mets. A family of four - dad, mom, and two kids no older than 12 were wearing Mets jerseys. A bunch of drunken Brewer fans proceed to call the entire family a bunch of f@g$ - you think anything happened to them?)
I agree that it reflects poorly on a franchise and I wish there was more that could be done or would be done. However, I also believe that this celebration reflects poorly on the Brewers - it was not their fans - it was their players. They have already rubbed at least 4 teams the wrong way this year - it's not just a coincidence.
P.S. Didn't the Brewers have an opening day 10-15 years ago where the give away was a free baseball and hundreds if not thousands of baseballs were thrown onto the field? Drunken fans are drunken fans wherever they are. More prevalent at Wrigley? Maybe - but the people in the bleachers at Wrigley are rarely true Cubs fans anyway.
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We're obviously never going to agree on this but, again, I don't understand how you're trying to compare Tiger sinking a 20+ foot putt on Sunday on 18 to win the tournament....for his 5th tournament win in a row....he wasn't even playing with the guy that came in second to the Brewers thing.
No, I don't think the Brewers were trying to show up the Giants intentionally but how do you think it was taken? TO is a fool....which is why I brought him up...if you're a great player people will notice. How many end zone dances did Barry Sanders, Jerry Rice or Walter Payton ever do?
You're probably right on the first point.
I understand your point about the choreography. That begs the question, though: aren't all walk-off homer celebrations, to a certain extent, choreographed? It's not like mobbing the home run hitter at the plate and jumping up and down in unison is an original thing. Hell, look at the Yankees, who have their own wrinkle on it, with the hitter tossing his helmet up and 2 or 3 guys scrambling for it like the bridal bouquet at a wedding (could have gone with garter, but a thinly-veiled shot at the Yankees is tough to pass up). Does that bug you as much as the Fielder Earthquake (for lack of a better term)?
I meant it when I said I was against excessive celebrations. Especially those that are "all about me" (different for Tiger or any golfer/tennis player, as it is, in fact, all about them) in the context of a team sport. Landon Donovan scored a goal in the Confed Cup this summer, on a beautiful setup, and after scoring ran to the corner, pointing at himself and saying "ME!" over and over again. Not anything outrageous, but classless. Soriano's "You can't see ME" was all about him. TO's...everything...was all about him. The Earthquake, on the other hand, was for the Brewers, as a team, to enjoy. I have a hard time finding fault in team celebrations, provided their intent is to celebrate as a team, rather than to show up their opponents.
I'll say it again (and this is a general comment, not directed at you, '94): the main reason everybody "hates" the Brewers is because they've become a competitive club. When they were losing 100 games a year, nobody gave a sh!t. The same could be said of the Vikings. Before Randy Moss, the Vikings, for me, were an afterthought. Then they started winning, and I (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) started genuinely disliking them. The only thing that changed was the fact that they started winning.
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the main reason everybody "hates" the Brewers is because they've become a competitive club.
Since when does being 15 games out of first count as being a competitive club?
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Since when does being 15 games out of first count as being a competitive club?
Hahaha. +1
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(Example - I went to a baseball game at Miller Park between the Brewers and the Mets. A family of four - dad, mom, and two kids no older than 12 were wearing Mets jerseys. A bunch of drunken Brewer fans proceed to call the entire family a bunch of f@g$ - you think anything happened to them?)
P.S. Didn't the Brewers have an opening day 10-15 years ago where the give away was a free baseball and hundreds if not thousands of baseballs were thrown onto the field? Drunken fans are drunken fans wherever they are. More prevalent at Wrigley? Maybe - but the people in the bleachers at Wrigley are rarely true Cubs fans anyway.
That never happened ;).
You're right that each team has their dumb fans. Usually it is towards other teams, calling them "jack azzes" or towards the fans from the other team-which is entirely inappropriate-for no reason other than wanting to watch their team who they don't get to see that often. There is no place for that.
However, when you berate a solitary member on a team, or a group of them, for their ancestry that is a whole different low. If I were at a Crew game and I heard someone yelling at Cameron during his struggle and he kept it to asking him why he's hitting so poorly and if it is because he wasn't on roids-understandable; but if someone was hollering at him calling him something derogatory about something he could not have decided like his race--I would, as a fan and representative of the Brewer fanbase, step in and tell the schmuck to shut-up and get out. So let's say the person is drunk and illogical and a fight may/probably ensue-go immediately to someone in authority--their all around the place and point him out, they will watch them and if he/she says it again security will come in and take care of it. I would also go get my buddies and tell him to shut up and sit down--or leave.
That is what I cannot comprehend. How was it that these things were going on, in what appears to be on a consistant basis, and no other fans stepped up and told the other person to shut-up or "shut the f*** up." That is the disturbing part. No one had the balls to say anything to the individuals saying these things.
I agree that it reflects poorly on a franchise and I wish there was more that could be done or would be done. However, I also believe that this celebration reflects poorly on the Brewers - it was not their fans - it was their players. They have already rubbed at least 4 teams the wrong way this year - it's not just a coincidence.
I don't mind rubbing teams the wrong way one bit. I mean the Brewers have been in anonymity for how long. If they rub a team a wrong way, to get them some fire and they talk about the Brewers in a bad way--so be it. The next time the club plays them, remember what those teams said and fire back with fastballs and home runs. It isn't coincidence and I have no problem with that.
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Since when does being 15 games out of first count as being a competitive club?
Haha I'll give you that. I knew it was coming. I'm saying in the grand scheme, over the last couple of seasons, the Brewers have become more competitive, to the point where people might start to think, "Hey, we used to beat the crap out of these guys. What the hell?" And chances are, some of them might be a little irked at the fact that games against the Brewers are no longer good for 12 or 13 divisional wins on an annual basis.
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However, when you berate a solitary member on a team, or a group of them, for their ancestry that is a whole different low. If I were at a Crew game and I heard someone yelling at Cameron during his struggle and he kept it to asking him why he's hitting so poorly and if it is because he wasn't on roids-understandable; but if someone was hollering at him calling him something derogatory about something he could not have decided like his race--I would, as a fan and representative of the Brewer fanbase, step in and tell the schmuck to shut-up and get out. So let's say the person is drunk and illogical and a fight may/probably ensue-go immediately to someone in authority--their all around the place and point him out, they will watch them and if he/she says it again security will come in and take care of it. I would also go get my buddies and tell him to shut up and sit down--or leave.
That is what I cannot comprehend. How was it that these things were going on, in what appears to be on a consistant basis, and no other fans stepped up and told the other person to shut-up or "shut the f*** up." That is the disturbing part. No one had the balls to say anything to the individuals saying these things.
I have no reason to disagree with any of this. I fully support this statement. It's unfortunate and as a fan of that club I hope there is something done that will take care of the problem. The only thing to remember (as I stated before), while this makes all the Cubs fans look like ignorant @$$es, those sitting in the bleachers are usually peripheral fans more interested in drinking than watching baseball. It's the unfortunate aspect of having such a large "fan"base.
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Not a single comment during a 4 game series in the middle of September between the Cubs and Brewers.
That's not the sign of a good season for either team.
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Not a single comment during a 4 game series in the middle of September between the Cubs and Brewers.
That's not the sign of a good season for either team.
word :-/
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Not a single comment during a 4 game series in the middle of September between the Cubs and Brewers.
That's not the sign of a good season for either team.
Baseball season isn't over?
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Baseball season isn't over?
Milton Bradley's is.....
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2009/09/bradley-not-with-cubs-hendry-will-address-team.html
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=322741&src=152
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I've decided I like Milton Bradley. He's like the bad guy in wrestling and whenever he speaks its just to piss off the crowd. He even taunts the fans by bowing and giving them hand gestures.
Since baseball isn't working out I think he should pursue a career in the WWE. Vince McMahon could pay the rest of his $21 million salary!
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GO BREWERS!!!!!!!!! ;D
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I've decided I like Milton Bradley. He's like the bad guy in wrestling and whenever he speaks its just to piss off the crowd. He even taunts the fans by bowing and giving them hand gestures.
Since baseball isn't working out I think he should pursue a career in the WWE. Vince McMahon could pay the rest of his $21 million salary!
I like him too. But those Parker Bros have him beat, imo. :D
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I like him too. But those Parker Bros have him beat, imo. :D
Hard to say. Parker Brothers has a legendary three but past that they have nothing. Milton Bradley has numerous favorites.
Milton Bradley:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Milton_Bradley_Company_products (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Milton_Bradley_Company_products)
Candy Land
Battleship
Connect Four
Life
Guess Who
Jenga
Yahtzee
Etc.
Parker Brothers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_Brothers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_Brothers)
Monopoly
Trivial Pursuit
Risk
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Definitely Parker Brothers. Kinda like comparing Jim Brown to Walter Payton. Both were awesome, but while Jim brown had fewer seasons, the performance level in those he did play was unbelievable.
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The Cubs can clinch a season victory over the Brewers tonight. They are up 8 games to 6 with 2 to play.
A sad sad conselation prize for the season.
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I count 9-6 in favor of the cubs - with last night being the clincher - but agree, not much to play for
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Good call. I forgot to count last nights game.
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Congratulations on your season series win over the Brewers. I know you idiots have to look at these small accomplishments with great pride and joy...thats what happens when you come from a 100 year losing tradition
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Congratulations on your season series win over the Brewers. I know you idiots have to look at these small accomplishments with great pride and joy...thats what happens when you come from a 100 year losing tradition
Congrats on just not really having a tradition.
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Congrats on just not really having a tradition.
Sometimes no tradition is better than a bad tradition.
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Sometimes no tradition is better than a bad tradition.
Sometimes, but tradition has brought and kept fans in the stands. I don't think Milwaukee will be seeing a 3 million attendance year for awhile.
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Did you guys miss the part where I said it is a sad sad conselation prize for the season.
Considering this is a pissing match between Cubs fans and Brewers fans I think that stat is pretty relavent.
Congratulations on your season series win over the Brewers. I know you idiots have to look at these small accomplishments with great pride and joy...thats what happens when you come from a 100 year losing tradition
2008 N.L. Wild Card
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Sometimes, but tradition has brought and kept fans in the stands. I don't think Milwaukee will be seeing a 3 million attendance year for awhile.
Uhh...Milwaukee has had over 3 million for the past 2 years...
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Uhh...Milwaukee has had over 3 million for the past 2 years...
Uhh...and MarqPTM is right. You won't see that for a long while.
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Uhh...and MarqPTM is right. You won't see that for a long while.
Oh yeah, my mistake, we won't see that for a while because we've had it for the last 2 years, but the Cubs fans say we won't, so we won't.
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Oh yeah, my mistake, we won't see that for a while because we've had it for the last 2 years, but the Cubs fans say we won't, so we won't.
Wager?
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What do you think is going to draw Brewer fans out next season? Bobbleheads every night?
In 2008 you had 3,068,458 fans. It also is only 89% capacity during a playoff season. Yikes. Without Cubs fans selling out your park you wouldn't have made it over 3 million.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance/_/year/2008 (http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance/_/year/2008)
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I told myself I wasn't going to jump into this...
But come on TT. They were coming off of an even more disappointing year in 07, led to soft attendance in April and May.
You also can't ignore market size. Try as you may to get your digs in, but the smallest market in MLB drawing 3 mil in consecutive years is impressive.
Will it happen next year? Probably not, but if they are in it like in 08, it could follow the same pattern.
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I'm not saying it wasn't impressive. I'm saying it won't happen again anytime soon.
I am trying to get digs in though yes. ;D
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I will agree that it won't happen until we get some of our own prospects up into the rotation and bullpen. We can't get a number 1 or 2 starter in the market most of the time, at least not for more than half a year, so until some pitching prospects come around, I'm guessing the Crew will be in under 3mil in attendance as a 5+ team ERA is not not gonna get it done.
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You have a tight window. RIght now you can offer some decent money to free agents. But if attendance starts dropping that money will start dropping too.
You need to make the right moves starting this offseason.
EDIT: Spelling mistake
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You have a tight window. RIght now you can offer some decent money to free agents. But if attends starts dropping that money will start dropping too.
You need to make the right moves starting this offseason.
That we can definitely agree on. This is Melvin's offseason, make or break. Looking at 2 yrs max with Prince, with no one near that production behind him. Gotta win now.
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Sometimes, but tradition has brought and kept fans in the stands. I don't think Milwaukee will be seeing a 3 million attendance year for awhile.
Actually, some genius marketing and the area around the stadium improving vastly has brought and kept fans in the stands. The Cubs' "tradition" has had little to do with it in my view.
Huge offseason for the Brewers. Big holes to fill at C, CF, SP aside from Yo, and possibly 2b and Closer.
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Trevor has stated multiple times that he has liked his time in Milwaukee and would not be against staying if they wanted him. Hopefully this gets done, without too absurd of a salary.
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2008 N.L. Wild Card
We may have "only had" the wild card, but who won more games in the playoffs last year??
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We may have "only had" the wild card, but who won more games in the playoffs last year??
I find it interesting that you called Cubs fans idiots for caring about the "small" victory of winning the season series over the Brewers (even after myself and TT stated that it was nothing to really be proud of), yet you bring up the fact the Brewers won 1 playoff game. Hypocrite?
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You have a tight window. RIght now you can offer some decent money to free agents. But if attendances starts dropping that money will start dropping too.
You need to make the right moves starting this offseason.
EDIT: Spelling mistake
Like signing Milton Bradley?
/had to
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Trevor has stated multiple times that he has liked his time in Milwaukee and would not be against staying if they wanted him. Hopefully this gets done, without too absurd of a salary.
I agree. The problem is that there are three other FAs right up the middle...Cameron, Kendall and Lopez. Of the three, I'd like to keep Lopez, but he's coming off a real good year and has Scott Boras as his agent.
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I find it interesting that you called Cubs fans idiots for caring about the "small" victory of winning the season series over the Brewers (even after myself and TT stated that it was nothing to really be proud of), yet you bring up the fact the Brewers won 1 playoff game. Hypocrite?
Hypocrite, maybe...but when Cubs fans make their o so intelligent comments like "we won the season series" and "WILD CARD"...it also needs to be stated that the Cubs have been swept from the playoffs two straight years while the Brewers did win a game. So there is absolutely nothing you can say about the playoffs, cause ya'll can't win a game.
I'll just say this now...I'm not on here a lot, I just started reading this topic, but I'll say this. I HATE the Cubs, passionately. Mainly because their moron fans don't have any idea what they are talking about. I basically hate Chicago sports in general, but at least I can respect White Sox, Bulls and even Bears fans. For the most part, those fans are at least competent and have a clue what they are talking about.
On the other hand, you have moronic Cubs fans you don't ever make sense, throw out ignorant comments, think their team is god's gift to sports, and don't realize they haven't won anything in over 100 years. Yet they still somehow talk ridiculous amounts of crap and think their are the most intelligent baseball fans there are. But there is a reason not only Brewers fans hate you, but also Cardinals fans as well as the rest of the teams in the Central Division. There is a reason you morons are hated.
I hold no respect for Cubs fans at all because they have never done anything to deserve respect...from anyone
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Like signing Milton Bradley?
/had to
You'll be hard pressed to find a Cubs fan who like the Cubs offseason moves last Winter.
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Hypocrite, maybe...but when Cubs fans make their o so intelligent comments like "we won the season series" and "WILD CARD"...it also needs to be stated that the Cubs have been swept from the playoffs two straight years while the Brewers did win a game. So there is absolutely nothing you can say about the playoffs, cause ya'll can't win a game.
I'll just say this now...I'm not on here a lot, I just started reading this topic, but I'll say this. I HATE the Cubs, passionately. Mainly because their moron fans don't have any idea what they are talking about. I basically hate Chicago sports in general, but at least I can respect White Sox, Bulls and even Bears fans. For the most part, those fans are at least competent and have a clue what they are talking about.
On the other hand, you have moronic Cubs fans you don't ever make sense, throw out ignorant comments, think their team is god's gift to sports, and don't realize they haven't won anything in over 100 years. Yet they still somehow talk ridiculous amounts of crap and think their are the most intelligent baseball fans there are. But there is a reason not only Brewers fans hate you, but also Cardinals fans as well as the rest of the teams in the Central Division. There is a reason you morons are hated.
I hold no respect for Cubs fans at all because they have never done anything to deserve respect...from anyone
Wow - hope you feel better now that you have that off your chest. Making a comment about winning the season series on the pissing match thread - how dare us cubs fans. I guarantee if the Brewers were to have won the season series there would be Brewers fans posting the same thing.
As to the Cubs not winning in over 100 years - thanks for pointing that out, I didn't know that - I should stop being a fan now.
Here's the thing - EVERY team has moronic fans, if you want to put all of US cubs fans in the same boat, that's your prerogative. I have friends that are Brewers fans and Cardinals fans and guess what - we have intelligent baseball conversations.
It's good to know that I and all cubs fans are morons, ignorant, unintelligent, hated by every fan of every team in the NL Central, and not respected.
Just out of curiousity, what have the Cubs done to you to get you so riled up about someone posting the Cubs won the season series against the Brewers on what was formerly the "Brewers/Cubs Pissing Match" thread?
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Basically everything I stated above makes me hate the Cubs. And what have they done to me??? they come up to Miller Park, get obnoxiously drunk and start talking their trash like they won the world series last year. Not to mention I've had beer thrown on me when I was sitting in my seat and not talking to any Cubs fans at all (so I did not instigate them to throw beer...I don't think they were throwing it at me, but it ended up on me and it pissed me off) and I've also been standing in line to get into Miller Park minding my own business and been shoved in the back for no reason. So there are two things that Cubs fans have done to me.
And yes, all Cubs fans are morons, ignorant, unintelligent, etc. That is the exact reason why the fan base as a whole is hated by the whole division and they get no respect from anyone. When you start acting with and showing a little class, then maybe you will get a little respect.
And no you shouldn't stop rooting for your team because you haven't won in a 100 years. Christ, Milwaukee hasn't won since we were the Braves...But Cubs fans should stop walking around like they have won the past 5 world series titles. Maybe you specifically don't act or talk like that...but when Cubs fans come up to Miller Park or I see Cubs fans out at a bar or whatever, that sure as he!! is the vibe they give off. And that is what I hate most about Cubs fans. You aren't winners, so don't walk around acting like you've won something. Cause you never do
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Basically everything I stated above makes me hate the Cubs. And what have they done to me??? they come up to Miller Park, get obnoxiously drunk and start talking their trash like they won the world series last year. Not to mention I've had beer thrown on me when I was sitting in my seat and not talking to any Cubs fans at all (so I did not instigate them to throw beer...I don't think they were throwing it at me, but it ended up on me and it pissed me off) and I've also been standing in line to get into Miller Park minding my own business and been shoved in the back for no reason. So there are two things that Cubs fans have done to me.
And yes, all Cubs fans are morons, ignorant, unintelligent, etc. That is the exact reason why the fan base as a whole is hated by the whole division and they get no respect from anyone. When you start acting with and showing a little class, then maybe you will get a little respect.
And no you shouldn't stop rooting for your team because you haven't won in a 100 years. Christ, Milwaukee hasn't won since we were the Braves...But Cubs fans should stop walking around like they have won the past 5 world series titles. Maybe you specifically don't act or talk like that...but when Cubs fans come up to Miller Park or I see Cubs fans out at a bar or whatever, that sure as he!! is the vibe they give off. And that is what I hate most about Cubs fans. You aren't winners, so don't walk around acting like you've won something. Cause you never do
"And yes, all Cubs fans are morons, ignorant, unintelligent, etc." - Just wow.
Consider this my last response since you clearly cannot have a civilized conversation. As a Cubs fan, nothing bothers me more than jacka$$ Cubs fans because it gives the entire fanbase a bad name. For the record, there are jacka$$ Brewers fans too - look back a couple pages and you will find a story I posted about how Brewers fans treated Mets fans at Miller Park. People in glass houses . . .
As far as Cubs fans at Miller Park - deal with it or fill the stadium with Brewers fans. I have seen Crew fans holding "Miller Park South" signs at Wrigley - big deal.
As far as Cubs fans "giving off a vibe" when you see them at bars. Maybe its the vibe they give off in response to the "all Cubs fans are morons, ignorant, and unintelligent" vibe you give off at bars.
It is all a matter of perception.
Have a great day, and try not to get too upset about something as trivial as the head-to-head series of two teams not headed to the postseason this year.
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"Have a great day, and try not to get too upset about something as trivial as the head-to-head series of two teams not headed to the postseason this year."
That is exactly what I am talking about...IGNORANCE. Clearly this isn't just about someone posting something about winning the season series. As I stated earlier I havent been on this board for the past year like some of you...and therefore I haven't read 95 pages of trash talk between the 2. Therefore I posted my thoughts here
As for all fan bases have SOME moronic fans...true. But when a large majority of the fan base act the same moronic way, and not just "a few", that is how all Cubs fans get grouped together.
I wouldn't have a problem with Cubs fans coming to Miller Park if they had some dignity and class. But they don't. A lot of Cardinal fans make the trip to Milwaukee, and its actually kind of fun because they are respectable baseball fans and will talk trash during the game...and if they lose, their response would be, well ya'll got us tonight, but we're coming after you tomorrow. Let me buy you a beer. A cubs fan reaction or response after a loss??? "Uhhhh we're better than you and I'll whoop your ass, so there and the brewers suck".
Twins fans too, tons make the trip to Milwaukee but they act appropriately and behave with class, etc. Again, its not just Brewers fans that hate Cubs fans, and there is a reason for that. Open your eyes a little and you'll see that.
Maybe the vibe if from all the idiots acting like they are gods gift to baseball yet haven't won a thing in over 100 years. You fools can't act like you do after losing for 100 years and be respected. It doesn't work that way.
I've never heard anyone say it better that Milton Bradley "There's a reason they haven't won here in 100 years".
the best part is that he is a member of the Cubs and he used the word "they". Even players are embarrassed to be associated with the organization
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"Have a great day, and try not to get too upset about something as trivial as the head-to-head series of two teams not headed to the postseason this year."
That is exactly what I am talking about...IGNORANCE. Clearly this isn't just about someone posting something about winning the season series. As I stated earlier I havent been on this board for the past year like some of you...and therefore I haven't read 95 pages of trash talk between the 2. Therefore I posted my thoughts here
As for all fan bases have SOME moronic fans...true. But when a large majority of the fan base act the same moronic way, and not just "a few", that is how all Cubs fans get grouped together.
I wouldn't have a problem with Cubs fans coming to Miller Park if they had some dignity and class. But they don't. A lot of Cardinal fans make the trip to Milwaukee, and its actually kind of fun because they are respectable baseball fans and will talk trash during the game...and if they lose, their response would be, well ya'll got us tonight, but we're coming after you tomorrow. Let me buy you a beer. A cubs fan reaction or response after a loss??? "Uhhhh we're better than you and I'll whoop your ass, so there and the brewers suck".
Twins fans too, tons make the trip to Milwaukee but they act appropriately and behave with class, etc. Again, its not just Brewers fans that hate Cubs fans, and there is a reason for that. Open your eyes a little and you'll see that.
Maybe the vibe if from all the idiots acting like they are gods gift to baseball yet haven't won a thing in over 100 years. You fools can't act like you do after losing for 100 years and be respected. It doesn't work that way.
I've never heard anyone say it better that Milton Bradley "There's a reason they haven't won here in 100 years".
the best part is that he is a member of the Cubs and he used the word "they". Even players are embarrassed to be associated with the organization
Wild generalizations do not a good argument make.
This coming from a Brewer fan.
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Generalizations?? Just because you are a closed minded Cubs fans that refuses to see your own ignorance doesn't mean I am making generalizations.
Find a Cardinals fan and ask them what they think about you. Or a white Sox fan. Or a Reds fan. Or a Pirates fan.
Its not just us buddy
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Basically everything I stated above makes me hate the Cubs. And what have they done to me??? they come up to Miller Park, get obnoxiously drunk and start talking their trash like they won the world series last year. Not to mention I've had beer thrown on me when I was sitting in my seat and not talking to any Cubs fans at all (so I did not instigate them to throw beer...I don't think they were throwing it at me, but it ended up on me and it pissed me off) and I've also been standing in line to get into Miller Park minding my own business and been shoved in the back for no reason. So there are two things that Cubs fans have done to me.
And yes, all Cubs fans are morons, ignorant, unintelligent, etc. That is the exact reason why the fan base as a whole is hated by the whole division and they get no respect from anyone. When you start acting with and showing a little class, then maybe you will get a little respect.
And no you shouldn't stop rooting for your team because you haven't won in a 100 years. Christ, Milwaukee hasn't won since we were the Braves...But Cubs fans should stop walking around like they have won the past 5 world series titles. Maybe you specifically don't act or talk like that...but when Cubs fans come up to Miller Park or I see Cubs fans out at a bar or whatever, that sure as he!! is the vibe they give off. And that is what I hate most about Cubs fans. You aren't winners, so don't walk around acting like you've won something. Cause you never do
it's great how many people were proud of how WI was ranked 1'st in binge drinking but complain about a fan base getting drunk. Chances that you have ever lived anywhere outside of Wisconsin... 1 in 8?
People from Wisconsin hate people from other states. You think that you are all special and unique snow flakes. Let me guess you also hate vikings fans, Yankee fans, Wisconsin fans while they are cheering for wisconsin but not when they are cheering for the brewers/packers, think people from the east coast are jerks and think people from the west coast obnoxious. If you look for something to be mad about you'll find it.
Fans are fans, get over yourself. Why should we try to impress you when you? You think every single person who goes to a game in blue is a moron. The fact that wisconites think they actually have rational reasons for all their hatreds is hilarious. But it's not your fault, everyone in America has a superiority complex over WI. The entire country does. It's you against them. ::)
Isn't stereotyping fun?!?! You don't need facts, you don't need to get to know people, just make assumptions about them. Did you know that every raider fan beats their wife? Even the women and unwed!
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Chances I've lived outside WI are pretty damn good since I live in the south right now.
If you took a minute to read my post above, you would have read that I have no problem with Bulls fans, White Sox fans or even Bears fans.
Nope don't hate Vikings fans either. or Yankee fans or Wisconsin fans. And when I was in New York, there were plenty of people that were jerks and have never been out west so I have nothing to say about them.
Its basically just the Cubs and their fans that I truly do hate with a passion.
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Chances I've lived outside WI are pretty damn good since I live in the south right now.
If you took a minute to read my post above, you would have read that I have no problem with Bulls fans, White Sox fans or even Bears fans.
Nope don't hate Vikings fans either. or Yankee fans or Wisconsin fans. And when I was in New York, there were plenty of people that were jerks and have never been out west so I have nothing to say about them.
Its basically just the Cubs and their fans that I truly do hate with a passion.
Why do people get so worked up over this? Seriously....you need a pill or something.
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Generalizations?? Just because you are a closed minded Cubs fans that refuses to see your own ignorance doesn't mean I am making generalizations.
Find a Cardinals fan and ask them what they think about you. Or a white Sox fan. Or a Reds fan. Or a Pirates fan.
Its not just us buddy
I AM A BREWERS FAN, YOU ARE BEING A JACKASS.
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I AM A BREWERS FAN, YOU ARE BEING A JACKASS.
not a true one if you don't hate the cubs :)
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haha, I don't care for them and I don't care for a good bit of their fan base... of course.
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Chances I've lived outside WI are pretty damn good since I live in the south right now.
If you took a minute to read my post above, you would have read that I have no problem with Bulls fans, White Sox fans or even Bears fans.
Nope don't hate Vikings fans either. or Yankee fans or Wisconsin fans. And when I was in New York, there were plenty of people that were jerks and have never been out west so I have nothing to say about them.
Its basically just the Cubs and their fans that I truly do hate with a passion.
Oh you live is the south? That explains why you are so willing to stereotype. Buy there is no overlap between bears, bulls and cubs fan so that makes a lot of sense.