Baseball Pissing Match

[robmufan]

My sources comment was denial driven...i want to wait to get the official news!  I think he won't miss more than 2 starts. 

[gjreda]

just going off a hunch. It seems like a bit unnecessary to have him fly back early when they are coming back to Chicago after tonight's game to play the Chi-sox.  Dunno how often that would be done for simple 'shoulder stiffness' unless Lou or one of the team trainers thought it was more serious than that and deserved immediate attention and couldn't wait a day or two especially with an extended home series coming up, and I count at the White Sox in there since it's basically no travel.

We'll see what the MRI reveals tomorrow.

Not trying to start anything, but it actually makes sense to send Z back early regardless of how serious it is.  If he's hurt and they want to get a look at it, there's not point in not sending him back.  He won't be doing anything besides sitting on the bench for the next few days anyways, so you might as well get it looked at as soon as possible.  Unfortunately, I'm not too optimistic about this one.  Hopefully everything turns out OK and it's only a few starts.

[spartan3186]

I understand looking at it the way you did, but as you say here, they play against different opponents.  The Cubs not only play the NL Central much more, but the AL is much tougher than the NL as a whole.  I think it is much tougher to be 20 games above .500 in the AL than it is to be 20 games above .500 in the NL.  I will admit that 20 games above .500, in  either league, at any point in the season, is quite impressive, especially by mid June, but I think if you switch the teams' schedules (Red Sox play the Cubs' schedule and Cubs play the Red Sox's schedule), I think you're looking at the Red Sox being 20 games over .500 and the Cubs being in 2nd place in their division (behind the Rays).  I think to compare an NL team to an AL team (which is hard to do as it is) you have to look at player by player rather than stat by stat.  Overall I think the Red Sox are better, especially considering they have dominated the Rays this year and the Cubs lost to them (I understand 1 game, or even 1 series, can be a fluke, so we'll see how the rest of the series goes).  I don't think you can decide who is a better team just looking at records, especially comparing teams in different divisions and especially different leagues, as they do not play the same opponents the same amount of times.  You're probably right, the Cubs will probably make it at least to the NLCS this season (top 4 in the MLB) and the Brewers will probably not, but I really believe if the Brewers fire Ned Yost (which I don't think they will this year, unfortunately) with enough time to do damage, that they will win the Wild Card.  Unfortunately, if they do win the Wild Card, they would most likely play the Phillies, and I'm not very optimistic about beating them in a 5 game series.

In a previous post you said the cubs would be no better than 3rd in any division in the AL. Now you are saying that the Cubs would be in second place in the AL East... the toughest division in the AL

[SaintPaulWarrior]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=schoenfield/080620&sportCat=mlb

[muwarrior87]

so is or is not Bartman to blame? he should not be brought up in this article if he isn't like many "true Cubs fans" say and yet to become a better Cubs fan, one must know the things listed in this article and there he is...interesting.

[gjreda]

As a Cubs fan, nothing bothers me more than when people bring up Bartman.  Neither I personally, nor have any other Cubs fan that I am friends with, have ever blamed Steve Bartman.  And the people that I do know that have blamed Bartman are some of the dumbest people I know (not just in baseball terms).  I feel that Brewers fans and White Sox fans who point to Cubs fans blaming Bartman are exaggerating a bit, because any knowledgeable fan would not blame another for a loss.  Yes, the Cubs have a good amount of d-bag fans; we've established that.  However, that's true of all teams.  Case in point - at a Brewers game last year, I witnessed a Brewers fan talking crap to the people around him and acting like a genuine jackass while double-fisting Mike's Hard Lemonade - pretty pathetic if you ask me.  That being said, I'm not going to say that all Brewers fans are jackasses who drink Mike's Hard, but there certainly are some that are like that, much like there are some moronic Cubs fans who blame Bartman.  I think all of us know that those people are in a minority though.

And let's be serious.  Alex Gonzalez booting that DP ball right after the Bartman incident was the straw that broke the camel's back.

[MUfan12]

Sign #1 the Brewers are finally playing well-

The pissing match thread comes back.

[muwarrior87]

As a Cubs fan, nothing bothers me more than when people bring up Bartman.  Neither I personally, nor have any other Cubs fan that I am friends with, have ever blamed Steve Bartman.  And the people that I do know that have blamed Bartman are some of the dumbest people I know (not just in baseball terms).  I feel that Brewers fans and White Sox fans who point to Cubs fans blaming Bartman are exaggerating a bit, because any knowledgeable fan would not blame another for a loss.  Yes, the Cubs have a good amount of d-bag fans; we've established that.  However, that's true of all teams.  Case in point - at a Brewers game last year, I witnessed a Brewers fan talking crap to the people around him and acting like a genuine jackass while double-fisting Mike's Hard Lemonade - pretty pathetic if you ask me.  That being said, I'm not going to say that all Brewers fans are jackasses who drink Mike's Hard, but there certainly are some that are like that, much like there are some moronic Cubs fans who blame Bartman.  I think all of us know that those people are in a minority though.

And let's be serious.  Alex Gonzalez booting that DP ball right after the Bartman incident was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I agree abt Gonzalez botching that, but why does an article telling ppl how to be 'better' fans even acknowledge Bartman?? hehe

[gjreda]

I agree abt Gonzalez botching that, but why does an article telling ppl how to be 'better' fans even acknowledge Bartman?? hehe

Why?  Because some writers and journalists are morons.  "Stirring the pot" sells in the media world.  Why not make fun of a bunch of Cubs fans, that way, the fans who hate the Cubs will read and laugh about our article and the Cubs fans will come over to complain about our article.  It's really not that hard.

Also, it's Page 2 and is thus satirical.  And his archive of articles shows that he writes about the Red Sox QUITE a lot.

[drewm88]

Dan Shaugnessy used to write a lot about the Curse for the Red Sox. Bill Simmons complained about it nonstop. Just because it's brought up doesn't mean fans believe it.

[wadesworld]

In a previous post you said the cubs would be no better than 3rd in any division in the AL. Now you are saying that the Cubs would be in second place in the AL East... the toughest division in the AL

Not quite, I said the Cubs would be 2nd in the AL East if you take the Red Sox and put them in the NL Central, so 3rd if you left the Red Sox in there.  Still no better than third in that division.  And while you can't make many sure observations about two teams after one regular season series, I don't think anybody can claim that the Rays are not arguably better than the Cubs at this point after getting swept, and that the Red Sox are not better than the Rays.

[wadesworld]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Iub80dJ5nOQ

Don't look now!

[Rollout-the-Barrel]

Little early for "choke" proclamation...

[wadesworld]

Little early for "choke" proclamation...

Yeah that was confusing...I didn't mean to say they are choking, I just liked the song and then as another note was saying don't look now because the division isn't quite over like some (including me) thought it was about 2 weeks ago.

[Rollout-the-Barrel]

I agree it's far from over in the central division.  It's a three team race between cardinals, brewers, and cubs.  Cubs pitching is faltering as of late.

[reinko]

Hey Chubby fans, where are ya now???  Medicating yourself with Old Style that Rich Harden will be your savior? 

Just hope Z stays away from the computer these last couple months, Dempster won't have to pitch on the road, and Wood's one ligament holding his elbow together stays intact

Bring it on North Siders!

[🏀]

Hey Chubby fans, where are ya now???  Medicating yourself with Old Style that Rich Harden will be your savior? 

Just hope Z stays away from the computer these last couple months, Dempster won't have to pitch on the road, and Wood's one ligament holding his elbow together stays intact

Bring it on North Siders!

I'm right here, are as many Cub fans. I'm glad Milwaukee finally decided to play with the big dogs and sign someone. I am happy that the Brewers realize this is their last chance for a run with this roster for the next 2-3 years, too bad it has come with the Cubs and Cardinals playing extremely well.

Myself, along with many experts will agree the Brewers just got a whole lot better. However, the Brewers are still not the better team. 1-3 Starters the Brewers are better. Pitchers 1-10, it's still the Cubs. Milwaukee has a great playoff threat at 1-2.

Not to mention the all-around superior and far deeper offense that has not been relying on streaky performances and solo home runs, the Cubs are still sitting good. I'm sure Jim Hendry will also cash in some of the farm system and get us a 1-2 starter before the trade deadline. I hope it's Rich Harden as we can pick up his $7 Million option at the end of season, and his stuff has been as good if not better than CC this year when healthy. Z-Harden-Dempster, I'll take over CC-Sheets-Suppan/Parra.

Also, reinko, let's not talk about Z or Wood's injuries. We all know Ben Sheets will not finish this season without another DL stint, which is why the CC trade had to be made. Unlike the Cubs, the Brewers season hinges on their 'ace' Ben Sheets.

So my friend, no medication is needed, no savior is needed, we are just awaiting another piece.

[drewm88]

I'm right here, are as many Cub fans. I'm glad Milwaukee finally decided to play with the big dogs and sign someone. I am happy that the Brewers realize this is their last chance for a run with this roster for the next 2-3 years, too bad it has come with the Cubs and Cardinals playing extremely well.

Myself, along with many experts will agree the Brewers just got a whole lot better. However, the Brewers are still not the better team. 1-3 Starters the Brewers are better. Pitchers 1-10, it's still the Cubs. Milwaukee has a great playoff threat at 1-2.

Not to mention the all-around superior and far deeper offense that has not been relying on streaky performances and solo home runs, the Cubs are still sitting good. I'm sure Jim Hendry will also cash in some of the farm system and get us a 1-2 starter before the trade deadline. I hope it's Rich Harden as we can pick up his $7 Million option at the end of season, and his stuff has been as good if not better than CC this year when healthy. Z-Harden-Dempster, I'll take over CC-Sheets-Suppan/Parra.

Also, reinko, let's not talk about Z or Wood's injuries. We all know Ben Sheets will not finish this season without another DL stint, which is why the CC trade had to be made. Unlike the Cubs, the Brewers season hinges on their 'ace' Ben Sheets.

So my friend, no medication is needed, no savior is needed, we are just awaiting another piece.

Very nicely stated, PTM. Congrats to the Brewers on picking up CC, I hope he helps you take the Wild Card from St Louis.

[Chili]

I hope it's Rich Harden as we can pick up his $7 Million option at the end of season, and his stuff has been as good if not better than CC this year when healthy.

That's a bigger if than Sheets.

[🏀]

That's a bigger if than Sheets.

Really? I mean when I think injuries I think in this order: Prior, Sheets, Wood. Then I curse Dusty Baker.

[Chili]

Really? I mean when I think injuries I think in this order: Prior, Sheets, Wood. Then I curse Dusty Baker.

Harden has only had one season that was not injury riddled and that was 2004, his rookie year. Other than that, he has had long stints on the dl.

2005 - missed a month with an oblique strain
2006 - spent almost the entire season on the dl
2007 - almost made it out of April before being put on the dl for the season
2008 - placed on the dl after one start.

[reinko]

Yo PTM...you might want to check that order regarding injuries

Lets Compare some Career Stats:

Combined Innings:  Wood, 1196  Sheets, 1346
Career Starts: Wood, 178 Sheets, 207
Wins: Wood, 76  Sheets, 83

Oh yeah, Wood also entered the league in 1998 and Benny came in 2001

[🏀]

Wood has been healthy for several whole seasons > Ben Sheets.

[mosarsour]

Doug Melvin stated on Mike and Mike in The Morning that the Brewers might have Gallardo back before season's end and I'd say that a 1-2-3 punch of CC, Sheets, and Gallardo is as good as any other team in the league.

[🏀]

Doug Melvin stated on Mike and Mike in The Morning that the Brewers might have Gallardo back before season's end and I'd say that a 1-2-3 punch of CC, Sheets, and Gallardo is as good as any other team in the league.

I'm willing to bet that Gallardo will not be back. If they rush him, and pull a Dusty Baker it will be the death of him.