Baseball Pissing Match

[DanceHallPlayer]

for the Crew, it's pretty much just always been a rivalry w/ the team from Chicago. However, because the Twins and Brewers moved to their respective cities a year apart and we still regularly have them as a home and home interleague matchup, they were a big one too.

Just a historical point. The Brewers and Twins moved to their respective cities nine years apart. The Senators moved to Minnesota from Washington and became the Twins in 1961 and the Pilots moved to Milwaukee and became the Brewers in 1970.

[MarquetteFan94]

I asked 5 of the biggest cards fans I know who they thought was a bigger rival over the last 15 years, the cubs or the astros, and each responded the astros emphatically.  Several laughed off the cubs as a recent rival stating to be a true rivalry both teams have to be good and the cubs have rarely been over that time period.  I guess a lot of times the worse team always thinks/hopes they are bigger rivals to the better team than they actually are.  This is not to say the fanbases of the two teams don't hate each other, because they definitely do, but hate doesn't make a rivalry; meaningful series, especially late and in the post season do. 

So, to confirm what I first stated; the cards and astros have been bigger rivals over the past 15 years than the cards and cubs.

Interesting....I know that a few of my good friends from St. Louis would emphatically say that the Cubs are their biggest rivals.  Like I pointed out earlier the Cubs/Cards have been playing each other since 1892 and the further west you get in Illinois the rivalry gets more heated for the fans.  I guess it depends who you ask.

[jmayer1]

Interesting....I know that a few of my good friends from St. Louis would emphatically say that the Cubs are their biggest rivals.  Like I pointed out earlier the Cubs/Cards have been playing each other since 1892 and the further west you get in Illinois he rivalry gets more heated for the fans.  I guess it depends who you ask.

I think there is definitely a lot of hatred, I just think on the field the astros have been a bigger rivalry lately.

[gjreda]

I think there is definitely a lot of hatred, I just think on the field the astros have been a bigger rivalry lately.

My friends, and cousins, from St. Louis would emphatically disagree with you and probably call you crazy in the process.  There is too much history between the two teams to not have it considered one of the three most prominent rivalries in baseball.  I absolutely despise the Cardinals and I know my friends and family from St. Louis absolutely despise the Cubs.  The Cardinals vs. the Astros might have been the better game in the 90s, but by all means, the bigger rivalry is the Cubs vs. the Cardinals, and always will be.

JMayer: Since you believe that records constitute the basis for a "rivalry" (as your "whatever you say" comment to marqptm implied), do you believe that Marquette and Notre Dame are rivals?  I mean, we've gotten it handed to us to the tune of a 33-77 record against the Irish.

The rivalry is rooted in the hatred towards each of the two teams.  Considering (geographically) about half of Illinois is Cardinal country, the two groups of fans hate each other pretty heavily.  It's much the same as the majority of Marquette fans hating DePaul and Notre Dame.  All of the schools are competing with each other for their potential students and, often times, recruits.

And since this is a Cubs and Brewers pissing match, not something regarding the Cubs and Cardinals, I'm sure Cubs and Cardinals fans alike will agree that we mainly think of the Brewers as the recently added red-headed stepchild of the family who no one really likes or cares all that much about.  It's almost as if there is some sort of inferiority complex with Brewers fans feeling the need to prove themselves to Cubs and Cardinal fans, when in reality, I consider the Brewers and their fans more annoying than anything.  Sure, I don't like the Brewers or their fans, but I don't feel the hatred towards them that I do towards the Cardinals and their fans.  I don't think I am alone in saying that I consider the Brewers to be like an annoying, pesky fly or gnat that just won't leave you alone.

[Mayor McCheese]

And since this is a Cubs and Brewers pissing match, not something regarding the Cubs and Cardinals, I'm sure Cubs and Cardinals fans alike will agree that we mainly think of the Brewers as the recently added red-headed stepchild of the family who no one really likes or cares all that much about.  It's almost as if there is some sort of inferiority complex with Brewers fans feeling the need to prove themselves to Cubs and Cardinal fans, when in reality, I consider the Brewers and their fans more annoying than anything.  Sure, I don't like the Brewers or their fans, but I don't feel the hatred towards them that I do towards the Cardinals and their fans.  I don't think I am alone in saying that I consider the Brewers to be like an annoying, pesky fly or gnat that just won't leave you alone.

Don't worry, as a Brewer fan, I find Cub fans the exact same way you find Brewer fans.  Find a girl who is a Cub fan in the city of Milwaukee, and you will most certainly find a rich father behind her, and they don't know baseball, they just base it off the common name of the Chicago Cubs.  Being a Cubs fan is "cool" like being a Red Sox fan. 

I think the reason why us Brewer fans seem "annoying to you" and that "we are trying to find a way to fit in" is because of the lack of respect we get.  First game of the season, when the Brewers beat the Cubs in extra innings in Wrigley.  ESPN covered about 15-20 minutes on the Fukudome HR (which as a baseball fan, I can understand why, it is a big deal for people in Japan) however don't even dulge into the game, don't show that the Brewers won the game, or anything.  When you say we are trying to belong, no thats not it, we are just trying to get enough respect to be seen as a competitive baseball club this year.  We make a move to get the reigning AL Cy Young award winner, we may have the best 1-2 pitching punch in the whole MLB.  In my eyes the best three teams could well be in the NL Central, maybe with the Mets and Phillies being thrown in there. 

The thing is Cubs fans act like they are better then everyone, when in fact, many don't know crap about their own ball club.  This isn't going against the Cub fans that talk on here, because a lot of you are knowledgeable.  So marqptm, before you shout out all of your "knowledgeable" stats on Cub fans and how smart they are, just realize that there are plenty of Cub fans that talk nothing but about the Chicago Cubs, when all they speak is hot air.

Trust me eaglewarrior, the feeling is mutual about who the most annoying fans are, you think Brewers, I, along with most of the Brewer fans, think Cubs fans are the most annoying.  Maybe thats where our hatred for the Chicago Cubs come from.

[gjreda]

Don't worry, as a Brewer fan, I find Cub fans the exact same way you find Brewer fans.  Find a girl who is a Cub fan in the city of Milwaukee, and you will most certainly find a rich father behind her, and they don't know baseball, they just base it off the common name of the Chicago Cubs.  Being a Cubs fan is "cool" like being a Red Sox fan. 

I think the reason why us Brewer fans seem "annoying to you" and that "we are trying to find a way to fit in" is because of the lack of respect we get.  First game of the season, when the Brewers beat the Cubs in extra innings in Wrigley.  ESPN covered about 15-20 minutes on the Fukudome HR (which as a baseball fan, I can understand why, it is a big deal for people in Japan) however don't even dulge into the game, don't show that the Brewers won the game, or anything.  When you say we are trying to belong, no thats not it, we are just trying to get enough respect to be seen as a competitive baseball club this year.  We make a move to get the reigning AL Cy Young award winner, we may have the best 1-2 pitching punch in the whole MLB.  In my eyes the best three teams could well be in the NL Central, maybe with the Mets and Phillies being thrown in there. 

The thing is Cubs fans act like they are better then everyone, when in fact, many don't know crap about their own ball club.  This isn't going against the Cub fans that talk on here, because a lot of you are knowledgeable.  So marqptm, before you shout out all of your "knowledgeable" stats on Cub fans and how smart they are, just realize that there are plenty of Cub fans that talk nothing but about the Chicago Cubs, when all they speak is hot air.

Trust me eaglewarrior, the feeling is mutual about who the most annoying fans are, you think Brewers, I, along with most of the Brewer fans, think Cubs fans are the most annoying.  Maybe thats where our hatred for the Chicago Cubs come from.

I mean this in the most sincere way: good, solid, rational post.

And I certainly won't disagree with you that often times being a Cubs fan is the "cool" thing, but I think a lot of that is historically based on the fact that the Cubs have always been broadcast on WGN and thus have a more national fan base.  Some people have been raised Cubs fans even though they didn't necessarily grow up in Chicago.

And I won't disagree about the fact that there is a pocket of Cubs fans that think they are better than everyone (hopefully I'm not in that bunch).  As before, I'll argue that every team has their group of fans who really don't know jack about their team or the sport.  I certainly ran into plenty of Brewer fans like that as I am a recent graduate of Marquette.  It seems like more and more MU students are beginning to hop on the Brewer bandwagon even though they are from Chicago or couldn't care less about baseball.  I consider that the most annoying type of Brewer fan, much like you are annoyed by "rich" Cubs fans.

Us true Cubs fans are often just as annoyed with the Wrigley fans as you Brewers and Cardinals fans are.

[Mayor McCheese]

eaglewarrior08, I too, am annoyed with some Brewer fans like you are annoyed with as you call them "Wrigley fans" (which is a fantastic way of putting them in a group, is this like an unwritten rule as to what type of fan they are?  Really, it classifies them well, want to be a part of the history and place themselves in the category as a fan, but when you come down to it, they really aren't).  Being a Brewer fan my whole 23 year life, I have never seen a playoff game that included my team, I have hardly even sniffed a playoff game, I am hungry, much like you are hungry for a World Series title.  Last year I thought was the year for the Brewers, I sincerely did, and it killed me to watch the collapse, but I would be a liar if I told you I didn't see it coming.  They are all young players, never been in this type of atmosphere before.  This year I truly think is the year we break the '82 curse (see how I did that?).  I don't own any Green Bay Packer apparel, no Milwaukee Bucks apparel, the only professional team whose apparel I own is the Milwaukee Brewers, and I own quite a bit (including an original Milwaukee Brewer shirt that has the old school logo, along with stating "American League", the thing is old.) 

There is a new crop of Brewer fans, and I can't get too mad.  They have passion for this team, and love to flaunt it, even if its at the expense of other fans.  Much like what "wrigley fans" do.  They don't realize that I believe in 2002 the Brewers won a total of 56 games.  They don't remember in the 90's when the Brewers were the equivalent to the present day Kansas City Royals for the all-star game, and our player was just thrown in there because it was a rule (Rickey Bones anyone?).

What I am trying to say is nothing has been worse then watching ESPN for the past 4-5 months as a state of Wisconsin (and Marquette) fan.  Between the Brett Favre saga, Cubs constantly on Game of the Night, Tom Crean leaving(although this one might seem like a blessing in disguise), the Bucks still taking a dump on the city of Milwaukee's chest(although who cares about the NBA).  However, I see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Hopefully if the Brewers make some noise in September and hopefully into October and November, then we will get some respect.

Yeah, since this wasn't much for a pissing match post, and realized that about half way through the post... I have to add something

Fukudome still sounds like you are doing the nasty.

[muwarrior87]

well said Mayor. I have to agree with you on just about everything. I too am a long running Crew fan. Have a reversible '94-'99 jersey that I don proudly whenever heading to a game at Miller Park. I've been a lifelong Brewers fan as well and when it comes to the Chicagoans that become Brewer "fans" after coming to MU, I'm with eaglewarrior08 on how I feel about them. Let's see what these last 60 games hold with a tight race in the NL Central. Whoever says it isn't is kidding themselves.

Go Brewers!!!

[🏀]

A lot of very strong comments made. A few comments:

Just because they are "Wrigley Fans" or "New Brewer Fans" doesn't mean they aren't fans. They don't need to be discredited because they don't know every bullpen arm or the top Farm System prospects. I would breakdown fan bases into four easy categories:
1.) Rabid: Crazy to the point where they are ridiculously blind for their team.Impossible to have a regular conversation about baseball without being overran by ridiculousness. see http://www.desipio.com/?p=1474
2.) Smart: Well educated, knows a team weaknesses. Someone that can actually respect another's baseball team, and can throw smart jabs at another fan.
3.) Casual: Knowledgeable, and tell you more than half the roster. Keeps with with the division standings and/or playoff races.
4.) Clueless: The Chicago/Milwaukee transplant that starts to enjoy the team because they moved there. They can't name more than 10 major league players.

In my Wisconsin(Packers, Bucks, Brewers, MU, WU) overall experience this would be my breakdown. Rabid: 40%, Smart: 20%, Casual: 20%, Clueless: 20%.

Across the line: Rabid: 20%, Smart: 30%, Casual: 35%, Clueless: 15%
White Sox Fans: Meth Heads: 35%, Dealers: 25%, Incarcerated: 40%

[jmayer1]

Going back to the rivalry thing, I guess we will just have to disagree PTM and Eagle.

I pretty much agree with everyone's else comments regarding fans.  Each teams has their obnoxious ones, their uneducated ones, their bandwagon ones...etc.  There is nothing you can do about it but accept it and move on.  Thats why its kind of annoying to hear people say they hate a certain team because they went to a game at the opposite stadium/field/arena and their fans were jerks or obnoxious.  Every team, including your own, has those.  There are better reasons to hate another team (geography, history, loyaltyies..etc).

[DegenerateDish]

A lot of very strong comments made. A few comments:

Just because they are "Wrigley Fans" or "New Brewer Fans" doesn't mean they aren't fans. They don't need to be discredited because they don't know every bullpen arm or the top Farm System prospects. I would breakdown fan bases into four easy categories:
1.) Rabid: Crazy to the point where they are ridiculously blind for their team.Impossible to have a regular conversation about baseball without being overran by ridiculousness. see http://www.desipio.com/?p=1474
2.) Smart: Well educated, knows a team weaknesses. Someone that can actually respect another's baseball team, and can throw smart jabs at another fan.
3.) Casual: Knowledgeable, and tell you more than half the roster. Keeps with with the division standings and/or playoff races.
4.) Clueless: The Chicago/Milwaukee transplant that starts to enjoy the team because they moved there. They can't name more than 10 major league players.

In my Wisconsin(Packers, Bucks, Brewers, MU, WU) overall experience this would be my breakdown. Rabid: 40%, Smart: 20%, Casual: 20%, Clueless: 20%.

Across the line: Rabid: 20%, Smart: 30%, Casual: 35%, Clueless: 15%
White Sox Fans: Meth Heads: 35%, Dealers: 25%, Incarcerated: 40%

As a White Sox fan, that's none of the above, you're comment is stupid, dumb, ignorant, and pointless, all wrapped into one.

[reinko]

As a White Sox fan, that's none of the above, you're comment is stupid, dumb, ignorant, and pointless, all wrapped into one.

Clearly PTM forgot one category of White Sox fans

Lame with no sense of humor

[🏀]

Clearly PTM forgot one category of White Sox fans

Lame with no sense of humor

I expected it, there is no sense of humor on the south side. They're too busy being gritty, the blue-collar worker and grindy to be humorous.

[reinko]

Stay classy Cubs farm system.  Stay classy

http://deadspin.com/5029015/mayhem-in-the-midwest-league

[DegenerateDish]

Actually us Sox fans are too busy watching the 2005 World Series champion DVD and getting ready for another playoff run this year.

Funny, I can't find a 1908 Cubs World Series DVD to watch. Must not have had DVD's back then, probably because it was 100 years ago I'm assuming.

[🏀]

Actually us Sox fans are too busy watching the 2005 World Series champion DVD and getting ready for another playoff run this year.

Funny, I can't find a 1908 Cubs World Series DVD to watch. Must not have had DVD's back then, probably because it was 100 years ago I'm assuming.

Saw that coming as well. This will be followed up by expletives in Spanglish and probably an anti-homosexual comment.

[DegenerateDish]

It might have been 25 years ago, but god bless Lee Elia. Gotta love when the manager of your favorite team calls the fans of said team  ****suckers.

[🏀]

It might have been 25 years ago, but god bless Lee Elia. Gotta love when the manager of your favorite team calls the fans of said team  ****suckers.

I wasn't alive, but it's a great audio clip. As a Cub fan, I love it. When a manager who does such a terrible job comes out to blast the fans who are giving it to him for his poor performance, the fans in question put forth a remarkable effort.

Keep chanting "PAULIE, PAULIE, PAULIE".

[DegenerateDish]

Paulie, Paulie, Paulie is a pretty week comeback, but good luck to the Cubs the rest of the season. I support my team, and don't get overly concerned with what the Cubs do (unless I get invited into an argument).

Cubs have their hands full, as do the Sox. If the rumors are true, and the Duchscherer for Fields trade goes through, the White Sox will be in great shape to not only win the division, but to contend for the AL pennant.

[MarquetteFan94]

Stay classy Cubs farm system.  Stay classy

http://deadspin.com/5029015/mayhem-in-the-midwest-league

Yep, that's definitely relevant to the divisional race.

[🏀]

Paulie, Paulie, Paulie is a pretty week comeback, but good luck to the Cubs the rest of the season. I support my team, and don't get overly concerned with what the Cubs do (unless I get invited into an argument).

Cubs have their hands full, as do the Sox. If the rumors are true, and the Duchscherer for Fields trade goes through, the White Sox will be in great shape to not only win the division, but to contend for the AL pennant.

Can the fans really keep chanting his name? He's really hurting the team right now.

The Dushscherer trade would be great. Weren't they talking Fields + a player?  Can't believe Beane is packing the season up already...

[MarquetteFan94]

Clearly PTM forgot one category of White Sox fans

Lame with no sense of humor

Who are the White Sox?

[🏀]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/c_c_sabathia_prince_fielder_keep?utm_source=onion_rss_daily

[MarquetteFan94]

It might have been 25 years ago, but god bless Lee Elia. Gotta love when the manager of your favorite team calls the fans of said team  ****suckers.

I'm not sure about this one....but isn't it the slightest bit ironic that a White Sox fan would rip on ANY other team's manager (past or present) for an explitive-laced tirade?  Hilarious.

[DegenerateDish]

Fun fact: The radio voice of the Peoria Chiefs, Nathan Baliva is a Marquette grad (and friend of mine).

Duchscherer for Fields and Pedroia is the rumored deal, you're correct. Kenny Williams is actually trying to get Halladay (via a 3 way deal with allegedly Boston), but I just can not seeing that happening.

Was I ripping on Lee Elia? If so, I missed that. I wasn't ripping him by any stretch. Both Chicago managers are known for their explitive-laced tirades. If you think Ozzie is bad, it's only because he does it publicly. Lou is just as bad. And for the record, I like that both Chicago managers have that fire, it's good for a baseball team.