Baseball Pissing Match

[wadesworld]

Geovoni Soto loves April 20

[robmufan]

I wonder if there were any cell phone cameras getting a glimpse of the action?

[wadesworld]

I wonder if there were any cell phone cameras getting a glimpse of the action?

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4287155

Positive tests are enough for me me to believe it.

[tower912]

We Tiger fans thank both of you for 6 of our 7 game winning streak.   You all can start playing now that your series' with Detroit are over.

[Jay Bee]

We Tiger fans thank both of you for 6 of our 7 game winning streak.   You all can start playing now that your series' with Detroit are over.

  The Twins also enjoy playing against these slouch teams.  Unfortunately, you Tigers get to walk all over them as well. 

[MarquetteFan94]

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4287155

Positive tests are enough for me me to believe it.

Our pot smoking catcher hit a game winning 3-R HR today and threw out a base runner to end an inning with the game tied.....meanwhile the Brewers catcher (and Cubs throwaway) has been "out-homered" by Gallardo.

[wadesworld]

Our pot smoking catcher hit a game winning 3-R HR today and threw out a base runner to end an inning with the game tied.....meanwhile the Brewers catcher (and Cubs throwaway) has been "out-homered" by Gallardo.

Are you honestly gloating about a player who is batting .232 and has a .389 slugging %?  The Cubs have gone THAT low?  Wow.  I don't think you'll find anybody arguing that Jason Kendall is a good offensive baseball player.  By the way, the Brewers won today as well, so congratulations.

Anyhow, Milton Bradley now is taking his anger out on the cooler instead of ball bags.  He had a nice 3 innings off to end the night.  Attitude reflect leadership, I suppose.

[TallTitan34]

Attitude reflect leadership, I suppose.

Really?  So Milton's attitude is because of Lou?  The same Lou who yelled at Bradley to take off his jersey and go home?  The same Lou who followed Bradley up the tunnel to hew him out some more?

Yeah sounds like Lou is all for Milton's behavior.

[wadesworld]

Really?  So Milton's attitude is because of Lou?  The same Lou who yelled at Bradley to take off his jersey and go home?  The same Lou who followed Bradley up the tunnel to hew him out some more?

Yeah sounds like Lou is all for Milton's behavior.

It was somewhat of a joke, but to say that Sweet Lou doesn't have a temper of his own is a joke too.

[MarquetteFan94]

Are you honestly gloating about a player who is batting .232 and has a .389 slugging %?  The Cubs have gone THAT low?  Wow.  I don't think you'll find anybody arguing that Jason Kendall is a good offensive baseball player.  By the way, the Brewers won today as well, so congratulations.

Anyhow, Milton Bradley now is taking his anger out on the cooler instead of ball bags.  He had a nice 3 innings off to end the night.  Attitude reflect leadership, I suppose.

Cubs OCD. 

[wadesworld]

Cubs OCD.

What?  I replied to a post about a CUBS player in a Brewers/CUBS Pissing match.  Weird.  Who would do that?

I love these responses from Cubs fans.  They go off about how great of a player they have and then when the facts are brought into the picture (.232 batting average and a .389 slugging %) the only response is "Cubs OCD" because they know they are wrong, so it must just be an obsession over the Cubs!  Yeah, that's it!  I probably should have just let it go at "Geovony Soto is a god" because a Cubs fan said it so it must be true, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.  After all, he IS killing the ball this year!  But I am obsessed!

[Moonboots]

I'm fine with dancers and slides over the circus act that will be Pinella, Zambrano, and Bradley in the same clubhouse for an entire baseball season.  Over/under on first punch thrown at May 15. 

Okay, so maybe I was a bit off with my wager for the first blow up, but the point stands all the same.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=4292202

Lou Piniella couldn't even get his own age right.

"Look, I'm 66 years old," he said Saturday, before correcting himself. (He's 65.) "I feel like 68."

Sixty-five, 68 -- does it matter anymore? Piniella is aging in Cubs years. His team, the consensus preseason favorite to win the NL Central, the NL pennant and perhaps even the franchise's first World Series since 1908, is a mind-boggling 35-36 after Saturday's loss to the White Sox. With apologies to Dennis Green's legendary rant, the Cubs are not who we thought they were.

Still, the Cubs are going to win the division, mostly because they have the best starting pitching and because Aramis Ramirez and his injured left shoulder should be back in the lineup before the All-Star break. But even if they do reach the playoffs, don't be in a hurry to thank Piniella.

So far, 2009 has been one of Piniella's most trying years as a manager. And part of it is his own fault.

Piniella has been tone-deaf when it comes to handling the ongoing situations involving Milton Bradley, Carlos Zambrano, Kosuke Fukudome and Alfonso Soriano. Mixed messages have turned into double standards.

Bradley, the Cubs' $30 million right fielder, threw a hissy fit in the dugout during Friday's game. He tossed his batting helmet. He went WWE on a Gatorade cooler. In short, he was his usual Milton self -- the temperature light on his temper a glowing red. This is news?

Zambrano goes nuts in the dugout, and he gets a private audience with Piniella and a verbal slap on the knuckles. The incident is downplayed. But Bradley does the same sort of thing, and he gets vaporized in private and in public by the manager.

Piniella followed Bradley from the dugout to the visitors clubhouse at U.S. Cellular Field and, according to the Chicago Sun-Times and Bradley himself, called the right fielder a "piece of s---." Later, in the postgame news conference, Piniella volunteered details of the incident.

I'm not saying Piniella was wrong in confronting Bradley. He's right: Someone very expensive in the Cubs' dugout could have gotten hurt. In fact, this being the Cubs, I'm surprised Bradley's helmet didn't go on the 15-day DL.

But why Bradley? Why does Zambrano essentially get a series of free bad-behavior passes while Bradley is told to ditch the uni and go home early? At what point is there one rule for Big Z's temper and an entirely different one for Little B's?

"This has been a while of this," Piniella said. "I've talked to the other people too, believe me. Look, the first thing is, you don't want people getting hurt. You really don't. I've talked to a couple other people here rather strongly about it, and it's totally been abated except for this thing here. [On Friday] I was right in doing what I did. I probably should have just stayed in the dugout. I heard him mumbling some things, and I followed him up. Look, things get … emotion[al]. What can I say? I'm sorry it happened, and I wish it hadn't happened. That's all I can say."

Bradley has a long and sometimes ugly history of dustups. But so does Zambrano. And it's not as though Bradley is going anywhere. His three-year, $30 million deal makes him all but untradeable. (Memo to Milton: Lose the No. 21 jersey. It's the "Curse of Sammy" 21.)

Ryan Dempster had a Gatorade machine moment in the Wrigley Field dugout earlier in the season. Ted Lilly jumped the dugout fence to confront an umpire. Carlos Marmol tossed his glove and sent containers and gum flying on the same day as Bradley's outburst. It happens. The difference is, when it happens to Bradley he's singled out, as if his tantrum was worse than the others'.

"Winning always creates harmony," Dempster said after Saturday's loss. "Winning brings out the best; losing brings out the worst."

We don't know what goes on in the clubhouse once the doors are closed, but it doesn't feel harmonious. But we do know that Bradley told the Chicago Tribune that he feels isolated on his own team. Some of it is his own doing (a .236 average, five home runs, 16 RBIs, mental mistakes in the field), but it doesn't help when Piniella gives Bradley GPS directions to the Cubs' woodshed.

"Look, he understands," Piniella said. "I don't want problems with players. I don't want problems with anybody. This job's tough enough without having to have confrontations. It was only for a few seconds. It wasn't long. The problem is that we have the sanctity of a clubhouse here. I'm disappointed that something like that gets out. Because there are a lot of heated things that are said in the clubhouse at times. They should just stay there."

But they didn't. They leaked out, and with it, so did some of Piniella's credibility.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this isn't the first time Piniella has sent mixed messages. Ask Fukudome. If you injected Piniella with even the tiniest dose of truth serum, here's guessing you'd find out that Fukudome wouldn't be in Lou's Fave Five. Or Fave 500.

Meanwhile, Soriano is treated with gloves as soft as fresh hot dog buns. Doesn't matter that his batting average is just .228 or that his on-base percentage is a microscopic .292 (as a leadoff man!), or that he's a defensive liability. Soriano even had the stones to tell the Tribune that if Bradley "is not 100 percent to help the team, we don't need him." Soriano added that Bradley is "a great guy."

This from a player who has been so cold during the past 32 games (25 of 140, .179) that you wanted to bat him 10th in the lineup. As bad as Bradley has been -- and he's been brutal -- he's still hitting nine points higher than Soriano and has an OBP 63 points higher.

The Cubs beat the White Sox on Friday, though Piniella said the Bradley incident "took the joy out of winning a baseball game." So just think how he felt Saturday after the Sox scored a winning run with two outs in the bottom of the ninth to beat the Cubs, 8-7.

"We're going to get on a streak," Piniella said afterward. "It's just a question of when and how soon."

They're on a streak right now. It's called losing five of your last six.

[MarquetteFan94]

What?  I replied to a post about a CUBS player in a Brewers/CUBS Pissing match.  Weird.  Who would do that?

I love these responses from Cubs fans.  They go off about how great of a player they have and then when the facts are brought into the picture (.232 batting average and a .389 slugging %) the only response is "Cubs OCD" because they know they are wrong, so it must just be an obsession over the Cubs!  Yeah, that's it!  I probably should have just let it go at "Geovony Soto is a god" because a Cubs fan said it so it must be true, don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.  After all, he IS killing the ball this year!  But I am obsessed!

Take it easy....my point was Soto is better than Kendall, that he hit the game winning HR on Friday...pot smoking or otherwise....it was pretty straight forward really.  Funny how you've turned into such a statistician these days when I've been criticized for supporting my points with stats in the past...granted I've never used UZR.  The topic was catchers and you shift to Bradley, etc...you're on top of EVERY negative Cubs story as evidenced by your posts....it's hilarious.  As I've said before, it's hard to tell if you get more enjoyment from a Brewers win or a Cubs loss...or negative story....or power ranking in May....it's turned comical.

[Moonboots]

Take it easy....my point was Soto is better than Kendall, that he hit the game winning HR on Friday...pot smoking or otherwise....it was pretty straight forward really.  Funny how you've turned into such a statistician these days when I've been criticized for supporting my points with stats in the past...granted I've never used UZR.  The topic was catchers and you shift to Bradley, etc...you're on top of EVERY negative Cubs story as evidenced by your posts....it's hilarious.  As I've said before, it's hard to tell if you get more enjoyment from a Brewers win or a Cubs loss...or negative story....or power ranking in May....it's turned comical.

Perhaps... but the real question remains whether it's more or less comical than Cubs' fans self-perceived superiority over the rest of the division and the rest of baseball.

[ChicosBailBonds]

My boys just got done crushing the NL in Interleague play.  14-4, best interleague record in baseball.  Unfortunately tomorrow we begin playing with the big boys again...the American League.

 

[wadesworld]

Take it easy....my point was Soto is better than Kendall, that he hit the game winning HR on Friday...pot smoking or otherwise....it was pretty straight forward really.  Funny how you've turned into such a statistician these days when I've been criticized for supporting my points with stats in the past...granted I've never used UZR.  The topic was catchers and you shift to Bradley, etc...you're on top of EVERY negative Cubs story as evidenced by your posts....it's hilarious.  As I've said before, it's hard to tell if you get more enjoyment from a Brewers win or a Cubs loss...or negative story....or power ranking in May....it's turned comical.

And my point was pretty straight forward too...I do not understand how you can gloat about a catcher who IS NOT VERY GOOD.  If you can find me a post that claims Jason Kendall is better than Geovony Soto then I can understand why you would post that, but otherwise I'm not sure who you're trying to convince...

And I thought I was posting in a Brewers and Cubs pissing match.  My bad.  I'll stay on 1 topic from now on.

[TallTitan34]

If you ask the majority of Cubs fans they will be the first to tell you the team is playing like crap. The pitching has been incredible but that doesn't help when you can't score.  Side note: Almost all Cubs fans were also against Milton Bradley when he was signed.

We know our team is bad. You Brewer fans need to grasp that your team is bad too.  The whole division us a lump of bad. 

[Hards Alumni]

If you ask the majority of Cubs fans they will be the first to tell you the team is playing like crap. The pitching has been incredible but that doesn't help when you can't score.  Side note: Almost all Cubs fans were also against Milton Bradley when he was signed.

We know our team is bad. You Brewer fans need to grasp that your team is bad too.  The whole division us a lump of bad. 

Interesting point and interesting polling data to back it up!

[MarquetteFan94]

And my point was pretty straight forward too...I do not understand how you can gloat about a catcher who IS NOT VERY GOOD.  If you can find me a post that claims Jason Kendall is better than Geovony Soto then I can understand why you would post that, but otherwise I'm not sure who you're trying to convince...

And I thought I was posting in a Brewers and Cubs pissing match.  My bad.  I'll stay on 1 topic from now on.

You need to re-read my post...I certainly wasn't "gloating" over Soto's season...just pointing out that he hit the game winning HR the same day you were ripping on him for smoking pot...pretty straight forward...also that Kendall has 0 HR and is a Cubs throwaway....it's a pissing match, right?  I'll take my chances with Soto as our catcher for the foreseeable future.  He's obviously had a terrible start but he's still top 5 in the league in throwing runners out and still an offensive threat....Kendall is neither.

Try staying on topic within one post....when arguing about catchers how is our RF relevant to that discussion?  It's just your way of wrapping in another negative Cubs-related story.  Again, it's not clear whether you enjoy a Brewers win/success more than a Cubs loss, negative story, injury, etc.  Anytime anything remotely negative happens to the Cubs you're scrambling to the nearest keyboard and here posting within the hour...your avatar and tagline on your profile, tiresome nicknames, etc....Cubs OCD.  It's hilarious.

[Hards Alumni]

time for you to go stat check Kendall's pick off stats for the last 2 years.

[wadesworld]

time for you to go stat check Kendall's pick off stats for the last 2 years.

Yeah no kidding.  You have no idea what you're talking about 84.  Again, nobody is ever going to argue that Jason Kendall is an offensive threat.  But to say he's not a good defender?  Really?  You didn't have the coaching to help him.  NED FREAKING YOST was able to see something and it took 1 minor adjustment to turn him into an EXTREMELY good defensive catcher.

Last year:  Jason Kendall - 55 stolen bases against, 41 runners caught stealing
Geovony Soto (just because you say he's both an offensive and defensive threat and Kendall is neither) - 69 stolen bases against, 25 runners caught stealing

You're right, defensively Soto blows Kendall out of the water.  Well played though.

It's hilarious.

And you are absolutely correct, it is hilarious how big of a circus this Cubs team is.  This is a team that is 2 games under .500 who at the beginning of the year was supposed to have absolutely no holes in the lineup and was supposed to run away with the division from start to finish.  So yes, this is quite hilarious.

He's obviously had a terrible start.

And when does the "start" to a season end?  You realized the season's about 1/2 way done right?

[wadesworld]

After Cubs manager Lou Piniella pointed out the spike in attendance from 22,000 when the Dodgers faced the White Sox last week to a full house when the Cubs visited U.S. Cellular Field this weekend, Sox manager Ozzie Guillen was asked why attendance was so low for the Dodgers series.

"Because our fans are not stupid like Cubs fans," Guillen said. "They know we're [expletive]."  Guillen said Cubs fans will watch any game at Wrigley Field because "Wrigley Field is just a bar."

  Hah Ozzie is a very smart man.  Also, what does Lou think?  I wonder why attendance would rise...1 team is from 2,000 miles away and the other plays in the same city.  I can't figure it out either.

[MarquetteFan94]

time for you to go stat check Kendall's pick off stats for the last 2 years.

Are we talking about the last 2 years or this year?

[Hards Alumni]

Are we talking about the last 2 years or this year?

I meant what I said.  He has been lower this year, but for you to assert that Soto is a better defensive catcher than Kendall is pretty ridiculous.

I consider myself a pretty balanced fan... I know the Brewers are screwed for this year, and I would be thrilled if they were in the playoff hunt in August/Sept... but I don't see it happening.

[MarquetteFan94]

Yeah no kidding.  You have no idea what you're talking about 84.  Again, nobody is ever going to argue that Jason Kendall is an offensive threat.  But to say he's not a good defender?  Really?  You didn't have the coaching to help him.  NED FREAKING YOST was able to see something and it took 1 minor adjustment to turn him into an EXTREMELY good defensive catcher.

Last year:  Jason Kendall - 55 stolen bases against, 41 runners caught stealing
Geovony Soto (just because you say he's both an offensive and defensive threat and Kendall is neither) - 69 stolen bases against, 25 runners caught stealing

You're right, defensively Soto blows Kendall out of the water.  Well played though.
And you are absolutely correct, it is hilarious how big of a circus this Cubs team is.  This is a team that is 2 games under .500 who at the beginning of the year was supposed to have absolutely no holes in the lineup and was supposed to run away with the division from start to finish.  So yes, this is quite hilarious.
And when does the "start" to a season end?  You realized the season's about 1/2 way done right?

Who's 84?  Where did I say Kendall was a bad defender?  Life would be a lot easier for you if you read in black in white....I said Soto is in the top 5 in throwing out runners...this year....and I would rather have him as my catcher.  It'll be interesting to see what you read into this.  Great stats on last year....but why are you talking about last year?  I wasn't.  Do I get to bring up Soto's ROY offensive numbers then too?  

No, the hilarious thing I was pointing out was your Cubs OCD...not the Cubs disaster of a first half so far.  On paper the Cubs had the most talent in the division when the season started....injuries and players playing well below their career numbers may have just a little to do with this mess...pepper in a few outbursts and suspensions and you have a disaster.  Ramirez coming back relatively soon should help...not the savior by any means but should certainly help.

Within the first half of the season does not constitute the "start" of the season?  Perhaps I should've used "first half."  Soto's numbers will slowly improve.  If he hits .250 with 15 HRs and 65 RBIs, I'll take it.