Baseball Pissing Match

[wadesworld]

As I've said before, the Cardinals think they are so much holier than everyone else.  They are quickly becoming my least favorite team.  Cubs fans are ignorant and it is impossible to have a legitimate conversation about the Cubs and any other team with them, but at least they aren't CONSTANTLY (they do sometimes and it's a bit ridiculous) complaining about the Brewers having some fun.

Why do Cardinals players (and analysts) talk openly about how the Brewers are the least classy team in baseball?  They always talk about how unsportsmanlike it is for them to untuck their jerseys when it's a tribute to Cameron's dad.  I guarantee you that it has more to do with the fact that the Brewers absolutely owned the Cardinals last year and won the Wild Card, keeping them out of the playoffs than it is anything else.  Pujols gets pissed about Villanueva, Pujols gets pissed that Prince and Braun watch their home runs.  It makes no sense.  I'm 99% sure that there hasn't been a home run that Pujols HAS NOT sat and watched more than anybody else in his career.

Then there is the whole manager situation, who is known to tell his pitchers to retaliate and hit an opposing batter, and, oh, falls asleep behind the wheel at a stoplight because he is so drunk.  Really, really classy stuff there.  Not to mention a catcher who just undresses behind home plate when a call doesn't go his way.  Again, super classy.

And the fans.  I went to 2 games this weekend and the fans are just overly obnoxious for no reason.  It's not like Cubs fans, who get crap talked to them and then they start being loud.  They're just loud without anybody saying anything.  People make fun of people for being fat in Wisconsin, but all I saw were fat people in red who would start screaming "Get out, get out!" at the top of their lungs on a routine fly ball that is about 50 feet from even making it to the warning track.

But yes, the Cardinals are super classy and the Brewers are absolute a$$holes.

[Hards Alumni]

That's only because he hits more than they do...

Hey I realize that Pujols admires his homeruns and that he probably can be irksome to you guys.  But I'm just saying that you should realize that your guys doing the same thing is probably going to instill some of the same loathing of your guys in opposing fans and that your guys aren't just a lovable bunch of jokesters who everyone should like.  So congrats, your team is now the Chad Johnson of Major League Baseball.  Everyone hates Chad Johnson. (Note: my hatred of Chad Johnson prevents me from referring to him as whatever the hell he wants to be referred to as now.)

right, so its ok when your guys does it but not when ours do.

I see your point.

I honestly could care less about celebrations.

[LON]

That's only because he hits more than they do...

Hey I realize that Pujols admires his homeruns and that he probably can be irksome to you guys.  But I'm just saying that you should realize that your guys doing the same thing is probably going to instill some of the same loathing of your guys in opposing fans and that your guys aren't just a lovable bunch of jokesters who everyone should like.  So congrats, your team is now the Chad Johnson of Major League Baseball.  Everyone hates Chad Johnson. (Note: my hatred of Chad Johnson prevents me from referring to him as whatever the hell he wants to be referred to as now.)

Woah woah woah...Chad Johnson?  Really?

So you're telling me that you wouldn't want either one of them on your team?

[MU B2002]

I'm 99% sure that there hasn't been a home run that Pujols HAS NOT sat and watched more than anybody else in his career.

And he has had two more chances to do so again today.  I think he should make like Joe Horn and stash a polaroid camera under home plate and give the photo to the opposing pitcher after touching the plate. 

Or if he wants to be like Nordburg, he can hide it under 3rd base.

[Kramerica]

right, so its ok when your guys does it but not when ours do.

I see your point.

I honestly could care less about celebrations.

Exactly.  Its OK because he's our guy.  

I understand why you guys like Fielder and Braun.  And I understand why you don't like Pujols.  But the reasons that you don't like it when Pujols does it are some of the reasons why I think that Fielder and Braun are punks.  Also the fact that Fielder will go after people in their clubhouse instead of on the field.  

As I've said before, the Cardinals think they are so much holier than everyone else.  

Why do Cardinals players (and analysts) talk openly about how the Brewers are the least classy team in baseball?

They complained about it once last year.  It is kind of a show off move, even if it is a tribute to Mike Cameron's dad.  There hasn't been one complaint about it this year.  

[Kramerica]

Woah woah woah...Chad Johnson?  Really?

So you're telling me that you wouldn't want either one of them on your team?

Well we're already covered at first and left field, so no. 

[copious1218]

"Cubs fans are ignorant and it is impossible to have a legitimate conversation about the Cubs and any other team with them"

Nice generalization - Every Cubs fan is ignorant, while every Brewer fan is all-knowledgable.  I believe there was a legitimate conversation going on on this board before you came on and started calling people stupid because you read the posts wrong.

[Kramerica]

"Cubs fans are ignorant and it is impossible to have a legitimate conversation about the Cubs and any other team with them"

Nice generalization - Every Cubs fan is ignorant, while every Brewer fan is all-knowledgable.  I believe there was a legitimate conversation going on on this board before you came on and started calling people stupid because you read the posts wrong.

Don't forget that all Cardinals fans are a$$holes who get upset about the Brewers untucking their shirts. 

[LON]

Well we're already covered at first and left field, so no.  

I was just asking rhetorically since I think the Chad Johnson comparison is way off...

EDIT:  Braun has exhibited nothing but a "team-first" attitude, if you don't like his swagger then don't let him take you deep.

That is the opposite of Chad Johnson.

[Hards Alumni]

who ever said everyone?

exactly.  no one did.  talk about wild generalizations.

addtionally, did you actually read my comment where I said, "I could care less about celebrations"?

meaning, I don't care if Pujols celebrates, I don't care WHO celebrates, its fine with me.

[MarquetteFan94]

Man, some of you must be the among the most boring people in the world.  The Brewers are having fun playing out a meaningless stretch of baseball at home.  Personally, I didn't have a huge problem with Jerry Smith running around in front of his hometown crowd after hitting a game winner.  I would have had even less of a problem if he had done it at Louisville.  Nobody seems to care when Tiger does his boisterous fist pumps or throws his hat down after winning a tournement.  How about when Al jumped on the scorer's table when MU beat Wisconsin or Brandi Chastain ripping her shirt off after winning the world cup?  Athletes often celebrate when big moments occur because at the end of the day they are PLAYING A GAME.

I did have a problem with Prince charging the clubhouse.  That was just plain stupid and uncalled for.  But to link that incident with this one makes no sense and is the comparison is only being made out of conveinence.

What's convenient is you not wanting to link Fielder's incidents.  I think it's pretty straight forward linking behavorial-related incidents from the same player in one month.  He felt disrepected in LA then pulls this garbage.  Can't have it both ways. 

Do you not understand what it means to cross the line?  Celebration is one thing....and is expected.....going over the top in doing so and acting like a clown in the process only causes problems, bad blood, shows a bad example and makes you look like a fool.  If you don't understand that I can't help you.

Al jumping on the scorers table after beating WI was over the top too....you don't think so?  How many other coaches have you seen do that?  I'm pretty sure he didn't choreograph it in practice in the Old Gym.

It's pretty common for soccer players to take off their jerseys after scoring a goal....happens all over the world. 

Do you think it's ok for a WR to do an end zone dance when their team is down 42-14 in the 4th quarter too?  You only had a minor problem with Jerry Smith pulling off his jersey and running around the BC?  Maybe...but he's a college kid.  When Tiger does his thing he's celebrating his accomplishments....not at the expense of another player....have you ever seen him to do that in match play?

Again, how many choreograhped walk-off HR routines have you ever seen?  I'll take the under on 1.

[LON]

What's convenient is you not wanting to link Fielder's incidents.  I think it's pretty straight forward linking behavorial-related incidents from the same player in one month.  He felt disrepected in LA then pulls this garbage.  Can't have it both ways. 

Do you not understand what it means to cross the line?  Celebration is one thing....and is expected.....going over the top in doing so and acting like a clown in the process only causes problems, bad blood, shows a bad example and makes you look like a fool.  If you don't understand that I can't help you.

Al jumping on the scorers table after beating WI was over the top too....you don't think so?  How many other coaches have you seen do that?  I'm pretty sure he didn't choreograph it in practice in the Old Gym.

It's pretty common for soccer players to take off their jerseys after scoring a goal....happens all over the world. 

Do you think it's ok for a WR to do an end zone dance when their team is down 42-14 in the 4th quarter too?  You only had a minor problem with Jerry Smith pulling off his jersey and running around the BC?  Maybe...but he's a college kid.  When Tiger does his thing he's celebrating his accomplishments....not at the expense of another player....have you ever seen him to do that in match play?

Again, how many choreograhped walk-off HR routines have you ever seen?  I'll take the under on 1.

Watch Tiger when he does something wrong, I think he's a bad example.  He makes a fool out of himself and gets a free pass from the media every time.

[copious1218]

who ever said everyone?

exactly.  no one did.  talk about wild generalizations.

addtionally, did you actually read my comment where I said, "I could care less about celebrations"?

meaning, I don't care if Pujols celebrates, I don't care WHO celebrates, its fine with me.

Wadesworld did - that's why I started my post with a quotation from his post - when someone says "Cubs fans are ignorant", that implies all of them correct?

[Kramerica]

I was just asking rhetorically since I think the Chad Johnson comparison is way off...

EDIT:  Braun has exhibited nothing but a "team-first" attitude, if you don't like his swagger then don't let him take you deep.

That is the opposite of Chad Johnson.

Fair enough, he probably would be a great guy to have on the team.  The swagger does get to me.  And his general cockiness does too, but it probably wouldn't bother me as much if he was on the Cards.  

But personally I'd rather have Pujols and Holliday.  Maybe I'm biased.  

[MarquetteFan94]

Watch Tiger when he does something wrong, I think he's a bad example.  He makes a fool out of himself and gets a free pass from the media every time.

I don't disagree at all....I don't think he's a good example and his cry ass routine has grown tiresome...my point was that his celebrating is self-centered....not disrepectful to an opponent. (i.e. in match play)

[LON]

Fair enough, he probably would be a great guy to have on the team.  The swagger does get to me.  And his general cockiness does too, but it probably wouldn't bother me as much if he was on the Cards.  

But personally I'd rather have Pujols and Holliday.  Maybe I'm biased.  

I have said this to buddies before, "If Braun was on another team in the Central I would probably hate him."

I'd rather have your pitching coach...

[LON]

I don't disagree at all....I don't think he's a good example and his cry ass routine has grown tiresome...my point was that his celebrating is self-centered....not disrepectful to an opponent. (i.e. in match play)

I see your point.

[jmayer1]

What's convenient is you not wanting to link Fielder's incidents.  I think it's pretty straight forward linking behavorial-related incidents from the same player in one month.  He felt disrepected in LA then pulls this garbage.  Can't have it both ways.  I said I thought what Fielder did a couple weeks ago was stupid.  I fail to see how that action should influence the discussion on this celebration though.


Do you not understand what it means to cross the line?  Celebration is one thing....and is expected.....going over the top in doing so and acting like a clown in the process only causes problems, bad blood, shows a bad example and makes you look like a fool.  If you don't understand that I can't help you. If you don't understand that the Brewers are HAVING FUN PLAYING A GAME, then I can't help you.  They didn't show up anybody, they just had a unique celebration.  There was no finger pointing, staring, or talking towards the other team.  Guys like Counsell, Cameron, Hoffman, and Weathers participating should tell you all you need to know about whether that celebration was foolish or crossed the line.  Did you have a problem with Soriano's celebration? (I'm too lazy to go back and look if you commented on it)

Al jumping on the scorers table after beating WI was over the top too....you don't think so?  How many other coaches have you seen do that?  I'm pretty sure he didn't choreograph it in practice in the Old Gym. Yep it was over the top.  I wasn't alive at the time, but if I was I'm pretty sure I would have been a big fan of it.  Did you dislike it?  Since it wasn't set-up before does that make it better?

It's pretty common for soccer players to take off their jerseys after scoring a goal....happens all over the world. Since everyone else does it, does that make it okay?  If everybody starts doing a Brewers type celebration will that make it okay?  (btw, I like the soccer celebrations)

Do you think it's ok for a WR to do an end zone dance when their team is down 42-14 in the 4th quarter too?  You only had a minor problem with Jerry Smith pulling off his jersey and running around the BC?  Maybe...but he's a college kid.  When Tiger does his thing he's celebrating his accomplishments....not at the expense of another player....have you ever seen him to do that in match play? No, I don't think unnecessary and over the top celebrations when the game is still going on are ok (ie-TO dancing on the star).  Showing some unbridled joy, such as Jerry Smith, is fine by me, especially if its on your home court/field.  The Brewers game was over and they were celebrating an accomplishment (albeit a small one), just like Tiger.  Yes, I have seen Tiger do this in match play on many, many occasions.

Again, how many choreograhped walk-off HR routines have you ever seen?  I'll take the under on 1. Zero before Sunday.  Does that make it wrong?  The Super Bowl Shuffle was choreographed, did you have a problem with that?

[ChicosBailBonds]

To answer your question, the Super Bowl Shuffle may have been the gayest thing I've seen in my life short of the Rams dance video (gloriously captured here  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix081prSiNc )

In my mind...if you dig choreography.....seek dancing with the stars. Sports is where spontaneous emotions should rule the day, not whether you're hitting your spots and lining up on the right X on the ground so that it all goes off properly in some contrived.   

[MarquetteFan94]

You don't understand discussing/linking incidents involving the same player that involve questionable behavior?

Yes, I understand HAVING FUN PLAYING A GAME.....do you understand PROFESSIONALISM?  These aren't kids in little league...they're grown men being paid millions...with thousands of people paying to see them everyday they work.  You don't think that the Giants viewed that as being "showed up? " And to celebrate like that after salvaging the last game of the series?!  How does those veterans participating in the celebration have anything to do with it being appropriate?  Terrell Owens is a verteran too.  Show me one example of Soriano doing anything remotely close to this.....with the rest of the Cubs participating. 

Of course you would've been a big fan of Al jumping on the table....I presume you're an MU fan....makes it easier to tolerate....does that make it appropriate?

You brought up the soccer analogy...not me.  Unfortunately, yes, if other teams start pulling that crap that the Brewers did then, yes, it will become part of the game.....that's the problem.  Just like all the BS end zone celebrations, sack celebrations, etc...tiresome.

You must be watching a different Tiger than the rest of the world if you've seen him take his hat off and throw it down on the ground after beating a player head-to-head in match play....it's never happened.  If you're fine with Jerry Smith's celebration that night then so be it....it was over the top and many people thought so.  I'm not sure that I've ever seen a player rip his jersey off after hitting a game winning shot.  

Just because the game was officially over also doesn't make it appropriate.....was is appropriate when the Michigan State football team stuck their flag in the ground at ND stadium at the 50 yard line when the game was over?

The Super Bowl shuffle was recorded in a studio....on an off day....for charity....are you seriously comparing that to what Fielder and the Brewers did on the field after winning a meaningless game?





 

[Hards Alumni]

You don't understand discussing/linking incidents involving the same player that involve questionable behavior?

Yes, I understand HAVING FUN PLAYING A GAME.....do you understand PROFESSIONALISM?  These aren't kids in little league...they're grown men being paid millions...with thousands of people paying to see them everyday they work.  You don't think that the Giants viewed that as being "showed up? " And to celebrate like that after salvaging the last game of the series?!  How does those veterans participating in the celebration have anything to do with it being appropriate?  Terrell Owens is a verteran too.  Show me one example of Soriano doing anything remotely close to this.....with the rest of the Cubs participating. 

Of course you would've been a big fan of Al jumping on the table....I presume you're an MU fan....makes it easier to tolerate....does that make it appropriate?

You brought up the soccer analogy...not me.  Unfortunately, yes, if other teams start pulling that crap that the Brewers did then, yes, it will become part of the game.....that's the problem.  Just like all the BS end zone celebrations, sack celebrations, etc...tiresome.

You must be watching a different Tiger than the rest of the world if you've seen him take his hat off and throw it down on the ground after beating a player head-to-head in match play....it's never happened.  If you're fine with Jerry Smith's celebration that night then so be it....it was over the top and many people thought so.  I'm not sure that I've ever seen a player rip his jersey off after hitting a game winning shot.  

Just because the game was officially over also doesn't make it appropriate.....was is appropriate when the Michigan State football team stuck their flag in the ground at ND stadium at the 50 yard line when the game was over?

The Super Bowl shuffle was recorded in a studio....on an off day....for charity....are you seriously comparing that to what Fielder and the Brewers did on the field after winning a meaningless game?





 

Translation: I am a fun hater.

[MarquetteFan94]

Translation: I am a fun hater.

Translation:  I love unsportsmanlike conduct and inappropriate behavior.

[IAmMarquette]

Translation: I am a fun hater.

+1

[IAmMarquette]

Translation:  I love unsportsmanlike conduct and inappropriate behavior.

Translation: Waaaaaaaaahhhhhh!

[ChicosBailBonds]

People just view sports differently, some are old school, some are not....some in the middle.

I have a question for IAMMarquette and Hards....do you think the Steroids issue in baseball is overblown?


I ask this because most people I talk to about celebrations and "the way things are today" could give a rip about the steroids.  Conversely, those that think the steroids issue is a big deal are also the same types of folks that believe things like the celebrations and the "ME" attitude in sports is problematic.

I'm curious where you stand.