Baseball Pissing Match

[muwarrior87]

it's true. Cards hate the Cubs and vice versa. that's by far the biggest rivalry in the NL Central.

[robmufan]

Its one of the most storied rivalries in baseball

[🏀]

Cue Price is Right's WRONG sound for jmayer.

[RJax55]

it's true. Cards hate the Cubs and vice versa. that's by far the biggest rivalry in the NL Central.

No question about it. As a Cubs fan, I will always consider the Cards to be our biggest rival.

Question for Brewer fans ... Do you consider the Cubs to be your #1 rival. If so, why? And, before joining the NL Central in '98, what team(s) did you consider to be the Brewers biggest rival?

[jmayer1]

Its one of the most storied rivalries in baseball

I'm a cards fan as well (long story as to why I like both the cards and brewers) and I definitely hate the cubs more than anyone else, but i definitely realize the astros have been a much bigger rival over the past 10/15 years.  There is no doubt the teams hate each other, but the cubs have not seriously contended/won the division nearly as many times over that stretch as the astros.  I realize the cards and cubs have been playing for a much longer time and they are traditional rivals, but the astros have been a much bigger thorn in the side to the cards recently.  This is kind of like how the packers and vikings were really bigger rivals during the mid to later 90s than the packers and the bears were.  Now, this could change again now that the cubs and cards both seem to have good teams for the next few years; but I was talking more about competitive rivalry than rooting rivlary.  Hope that clarifies my point.

[NYWarrior]

Most Cards fans would think your completely wrong. I don't know if you watch Cards v. Cubs at all when they happen, but it's generally accepted as the second best rivalry in baseball to the media.

Not really.  Giants/Dodgers remains a better rivalry, it might be baseball's best over time but we just don't hear about it much being away from the West Coast.

I don't have a dog in this race (Red Sox fan here), but that Dodger/Giant tiff  has been notably better than Red Sox-Yankees for most of the last 60 years.  The Yankees/Red Sox rivalry was in hiatus for about 25 years before the Munson collision at home plate in the early 70s -- meanwhile, the Dodgers and Giants were decades into trading blows that made differences in the pennant races, something that continues today.  Cards/Cubs - the biggest fault with that rivalry is that all to often the Cards have been much more competitive than the Cubs.

Regardless, MLB has few great rivalries that have stood the test of time; there are really only three that are worthy of note.

[jmayer1]

Cue Price is Right's WRONG sound for jmayer.

How was I wrong?  I said that recently the Astros have been bigger rivals to the Cards than the Cubs.

History of the NL Central (since 1994, excluding the current year):

STL
1st - 7
2nd - 0

Hou
1st - 4
2nd - 8

CHI
1st - 2
2nd - 2

Please explain to me where I was mistaken.  I don't look to the media to tell me who my team's rivals are for the past 15 years, I look to the standings.  Obviously, the Cubs - Cards is a bigger rivalry over time (Houston was an expansion team in the 60s), but I was talking about recently.

[🏀]

Records don't constitute a rivalry.

[🏀]

Not really.  Giants/Dodgers remains a better rivalry, it might be baseball's best over time but we just don't hear about it much being away from the West Coast.

I don't have a dog in this race (Red Sox fan here), but that Dodger/Giant tiff  has been notably better than Red Sox-Yankees for most of the last 60 years.  The Yankees/Red Sox rivalry was in hiatus for about 25 years before the Munson collision at home plate in the early 70s -- meanwhile, the Dodgers and Giants were decades into trading blows that made differences in the pennant races, something that continues today.  Cards/Cubs - the biggest fault with that rivalry is that all to often the Cards have been much more competitive than the Cubs.

Regardless, MLB has few great rivalries that have stood the test of time; there are really only three that are worthy of note.

Great point NY.

[jmayer1]

Records don't constitute a rivalry.

whatever you say

[muwarrior87]

for the Crew, it's pretty much just always been a rivalry w/ the team from Chicago. However, because the Twins and Brewers moved to their respective cities a year apart and we still regularly have them as a home and home interleague matchup, they were a big one too.

[Chili]

for the Crew, it's pretty much just always been a rivalry w/ the team from Chicago. However, because the Twins and Brewers moved to their respective cities a year apart and we still regularly have them as a home and home interleague matchup, they were a big one too.

i never saw the twins as a rival. it was the white sox. the teams would get in brawls. the fans would get in brawls. it was great.

[robmufan]

for the Crew, it's pretty much just always been a rivalry w/ the team from Chicago. However, because the Twins and Brewers moved to their respective cities a year apart and we still regularly have them as a home and home interleague matchup, they were a big one too.

I see how the cubs would be the brewers big rival in recent years (when the brewers have been able to field a decent team).  But I just don't see how the cubs were a rival before them...I see this similar to the Astros Cards rivalry

[bma725]

for the Crew, it's pretty much just always been a rivalry w/ the team from Chicago. However, because the Twins and Brewers moved to their respective cities a year apart and we still regularly have them as a home and home interleague matchup, they were a big one too.

I don't think it's always been that way.  When the Crew was actually good in the late 1970s and early 1980s, the biggest rivals were the Orioles and Yankees because they were the teams in the way of the Crew's rise to the top of the AL East.  The Twins were always fairly big, but I never remember the White  Sox being like that back then.  That rivalry didn't really take off until the creation of the AL Central, and it burned out quickly when the Crew moved to the NL(which I've still never agreed with). 

[wadesworld]

I see how the cubs would be the brewers big rival in recent years (when the brewers have been able to field a decent team).  But I just don't see how the cubs were a rival before them...I see this similar to the Astros Cards rivalry

Records don't constitute rivalries, but they do help.

Honest question: for the last 2 years, have the Cards still been the biggest rivalries the Cubs have had?  Obviously throughout history they haven't as they've switched from the AL to the NL and were not competitive for 20+ years now, but this year if the Cubs had a chance to knock someone out of the playoffs who would it be, the Cards or the Brewers?

My guess would be (but I really don't know for sure) that it'd be the Brewers just based on the fact that they're the young team and they've been (I think in the end the Cards will fall off a bit) the team that has threatened to win the division the last 2 years, it's closer (I'd be willing to bet there are more Cubs fans wearing Cubs gear in a game not being played by the Cubs in Miller Park than there are in a game in Busch), I would think there are more overall sports rivalries between Wisconsin and Illinois than Illinois and Missouri, etc.

Again just wondering if just this year the Cubs fans would consider the Brewers more of a rival (not taking history into account).

[SaintPaulWarrior]

I love the Blackhawk/Red Wing rivalry the best.

[robmufan]

That game at wrigley is going to be amazing!! 

[chapman]

I love the Blackhawk/Red Wing rivalry the best.

It looks similar to the MU vs. UWM rivalry.

[MarquetteFan94]

Records don't constitute rivalries, but they do help.

Honest question: for the last 2 years, have the Cards still been the biggest rivalries the Cubs have had?  Obviously throughout history they haven't as they've switched from the AL to the NL and were not competitive for 20+ years now, but this year if the Cubs had a chance to knock someone out of the playoffs who would it be, the Cards or the Brewers?

My guess would be (but I really don't know for sure) that it'd be the Brewers just based on the fact that they're the young team and they've been (I think in the end the Cards will fall off a bit) the team that has threatened to win the division the last 2 years, it's closer (I'd be willing to bet there are more Cubs fans wearing Cubs gear in a game not being played by the Cubs in Miller Park than there are in a game in Busch), I would think there are more overall sports rivalries between Wisconsin and Illinois than Illinois and Missouri, etc.

Again just wondering if just this year the Cubs fans would consider the Brewers more of a rival (not taking history into account).

As a lifelong Cubs fan I would rank the Cubs rivals in this order:

1) Cardinals
2) White Sox
3) Brewers

It's close between 1 and 2.  With the Cubs/Cards playing approx 18 times/season and being in the same division I had to put them first.  But in terms of intensity and passion, nothing compares to the crosstown rivalry between the Cubs/White Sox....based on the fans alone. 

While the Brewers are certainly the "newest" rival the Cubs and Cards have been playing against each other in the NL since 1892...hard to beat that.  And the Cubs and Sox have competed in the same town since 1901...it's a very passionate intra-city battle that the Cubs/Brewers series could never rival.

The games against the Brewers this year will obviously have more meaning than they ever have but there's way too much history involved with the Cards and White Sox.

If the race wasn't tight between the Cubs and Brewers, I would pull for the Brewers to beat the White Sox and/or Cards every time they play.

Up until the division realignment a lot of older Cubs fans would have probably had the Mets in their top 3 but since we only play each other 6 times a season and are no longer in the same division the rivalry has lost its luster.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

When do the White Sox and Brewers play each other, besides spring training?

My two favorite teams are whoever is playing the cubs and whoever is playing notre dame.

[RJax55]

As a lifelong Cubs fan I would rank the Cubs rivals in this order:

1) Cardinals
2) White Sox
3) Brewers

It's close between 1 and 2.  With the Cubs/Cards playing approx 18 times/season and being in the same division I had to put them first.  But in terms of intensity and passion, nothing compares to the crosstown rivalry between the Cubs/White Sox....based on the fans alone. 

As a Cubs fan, here's how I would rank the rivals:

1.) Cards
2.) White Sox
3.) Brewers (Right Now)

For me, the Cards and Sox will always be the top 2 rivals for the Cubs. Right now, I have the Brewers in the third spot, but that's only due to the recent divisional races. A few years ago, the Astros held the third spot and going back further to the late 80's & early 90's, I would have put the Mets there. For me, that final spot changes depending on the team the Cubs are competing with in the NL Central ... If the Reds or Pirates were having great success, they would probably take that spot.

Wadesworld - Look, two years of late season races with the Brewers doesn't make a rivalry. IMO, it is going to take a few more seasons of tough divisional races, important series in August & September, and maybe even a NLCS for the Brewers to cement themselves as a big rival for most Cubs fan. Let's face it, between 1998-2006 this series may have had some interesting games, but it lack any pivotal contest or series where both teams were in the mix for postseason play.

[MarquetteFan94]

When do the White Sox and Brewers play each other, besides spring training?

Interleague.

[Chili]

Interleague.

And MLB has kept that away from us. I remember many a game from the Garner years of brawls in Third World Country Stadium and on the field.

I miss those days.

[wadesworld]

Wadesworld - Look, two years of late season races with the Brewers doesn't make a rivalry. IMO, it is going to take a few more seasons of tough divisional races, important series in August & September, and maybe even a NLCS for the Brewers to cement themselves as a big rival for most Cubs fan. Let's face it, between 1998-2006 this series may have had some interesting games, but it lack any pivotal contest or series where both teams were in the mix for postseason play.

Yeah I guess I was asking as of this season alone (not looking at history...as I said the Brewers weren't even in the same league as the Cubs until recently and weren't competitive until VERY recently (the last 2 years) so historically the Brewers would not be the Cubs biggest rivals, just as historically the Cubs are not the Brewers biggest rivals).  I guess the question more was as of this year who is the most hated team for Cubs fans (which doesn't necessarily make it a rivalry).

[jmayer1]

Records don't constitute a rivalry.

I asked 5 of the biggest cards fans I know who they thought was a bigger rival over the last 15 years, the cubs or the astros, and each responded the astros emphatically.  Several laughed off the cubs as a recent rival stating to be a true rivalry both teams have to be good and the cubs have rarely been over that time period.  I guess a lot of times the worse team always thinks/hopes they are bigger rivals to the better team than they actually are.  This is not to say the fanbases of the two teams don't hate each other, because they definitely do, but hate doesn't make a rivalry; meaningful series, especially late and in the post season do. 

So, to confirm what I first stated; the cards and astros have been bigger rivals over the past 15 years than the cards and cubs.