MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jesmu84 on July 29, 2013, 06:09:11 PM
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Eddy Lacy showed up to camp in shape... (full disclosure, i really liked the pick for the pack)
Before: (http://chicago.barstoolsports.com/files/2013/07/20130414__357487213463c00c2e0f6a706700b745p1.jpg)
After: (http://chicago.barstoolsports.com/files/2013/07/ku-xlarge2.jpg)
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Eddy Lacy showed up to camp in shape... (full disclosure, i really liked the pick for the pack)
Before: (http://chicago.barstoolsports.com/files/2013/07/20130414__357487213463c00c2e0f6a706700b745p1.jpg)
After: (http://chicago.barstoolsports.com/files/2013/07/ku-xlarge2.jpg)
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/22933965/watch-thats-not-really-bj-raji-dressed-up-as-eddie-lacy
Looks fine to me. He's a big back. That's what makes him effective.
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That pic is not accuarate at all. Lacy is in shape.
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http://deadspin.com/counterpoint-eddie-lacy-is-not-fat-954027200 (http://deadspin.com/counterpoint-eddie-lacy-is-not-fat-954027200)
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Greg Jennings & The Consensus Vikings!!!!!!!!!
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Yep, Vikings finally got a receiver. Now they just need a QB.
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Yep, Vikings finally got a receiver. Now they just need a QB.
And some defensive backs.
Then again, so do the Pack
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Yep, Vikings finally got a receiver. Now they just need a QB.
We've got him. Matt Cassel.
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We've got him. Matt Cassel.
Worked out great for Kansas City.
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Rumor has it that the Bears will be trying something they haven't done before on offense, playing with an offensive line.
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My prediction is Aaron Rodgers wins MVP but Giants win Super Bowl, again! NFC North is second fiddle to NFC East.
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At least one wild card team comes out of the Central.
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At least one wild card team comes out of the Central.
New division?
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My prediction is Aaron Rodgers wins MVP but Giants win Super Bowl, again! NFC North is second fiddle to NFC East.
Hahaha. NFC East is a complete joke. Having said that, the Giants do match up better with the Packers than most and have in recent years. But as a whole the East is the worst in the NFC.
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Hahaha. NFC East is a complete joke. Having said that, the Giants do match up better with the Packers than most and have in recent years. But as a whole the East is the worst in the NFC.
You should be a comedian. Two Super Bowls to one in recent years. Eli and RG3 compared to Aaron and "I'll never win a Super Bowl because I choke and start throwing interceptions" Cutler.
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You should be a comedian. Two Super Bowls to one in recent years. Eli and RG3 compared to Aaron and "I'll never win a Super Bowl because I choke and start throwing interceptions" Cutler.
2 Super Bowls by the same team. Having 1 good team doesn't make a division good. Otherwise you could say the AFC East is the best division since the turn of the century. It's not.
Let me know when someone besides the Giants does anything in the Playoffs and maybe we can start talking then.
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2 Super Bowls by the same team. Having 1 good team doesn't make a division good. Otherwise you could say the AFC East is the best division since the turn of the century. It's not.
Let me know when someone besides the Giants does anything in the Playoffs and maybe we can start talking then.
Let me know when someone other than Green Bay wins something!
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Let me know when someone other than Green Bay wins something!
The Bears were in the NFC Championship game in 2010 and the Super Bowl not long before then. Last time the Skins, Boys, or Eagles were in either of those places? It's been a while.
Since 2010 guess which division in the NFC hasn't sent 2 or more teams to the Playoffs in any single year? That's right, the East has sent just 1 team to the Playoffs in each of the last 3 (maybe more, didn't look). Every other division has sent at least 2 in at least 1 of those years. The NFC North has sent at least 2 in every one of those years.
The NFC East is a joke.
North and West are both good, South is average.
East sucks.
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http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-05-13/nfc-east-leagues-toughest-division-last-five-seasons-by-far
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http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-05-13/nfc-east-leagues-toughest-division-last-five-seasons-by-far
So flawed it's incredible. If every division played the exact same non-division schedule every year then you could use the first 2 categories.
The third category is legit. They went with 5 years which I have no problem with. But in the last 3 years that trend has basically reversed, with the East being the worst in the NFC.
And again the last 3 are all based on 1 team for the East. 1 team being good does not make a division good.
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I'm looking for the Bears to win 11 games this year. Major upgrades on the offensive line, paired with an offensive guru like Trestman will translate into at least one more win than last year. The defense is aging, but will still be effective. Losing Urlacher will really hurt from a leadership standpoint, but he was a shell of himself last year. The new guy filling in for him, DJ Williams very well may be a better player at this point in his career than a 36 year old Urlacher. The Cutler to Marshall tandem will be lethal, and they finally got a tight end who can actually catch the ball. Forte will be solid again, and Alshon Jeffery should be able to compliment Marshall nicely in the passing game. Go Bears
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I'm looking for the Bears to win 11 games this year. Major upgrades on the offensive line, paired with an offensive guru like Trestman will translate into at least one more win than last year. The defense is aging, but will still be effective. Losing Urlacher will really hurt from a leadership standpoint, but he was a shell of himself last year. The new guy filling in for him, DJ Williams very well may be a better player at this point in his career than a 36 year old Urlacher. The Cutler to Marshall tandem will be lethal, and they finally got a tight end who can actually catch the ball. Forte will be solid again, and Alshon Jeffery should be able to compliment Marshall nicely in the passing game. Go Bears
Look to be let down then.
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So flawed it's incredible. If every division played the exact same non-division schedule every year then you could use the first 2 categories.
The third category is legit. They went with 5 years which I have no problem with. But in the last 3 years that trend has basically reversed, with the East being the worst in the NFC.
And again the last 3 are all based on 1 team for the East. 1 team being good does not make a division good.
Don't hate, appreciate! NFC East is the toughest and they will prove it again this year.
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Brutal blow for Pack.
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Brutal blow for Pack.
??
What did I miss?
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Bulaga most likely gone for the year. For what they were trying to accomplish in the offseason, that is a massive injury.
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Ouch, that does hurt. Lot of major injuries this preseason.
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Effing Bulaga.
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Bulaga most likely gone for the year. For what they were trying to accomplish in the offseason, that is a massive injury.
That does hurt because they had planned on upgrading the line by switching positions. However, they will not be any worse than most of last year because Bulaga was out last year as well. The concern is that they sucked last year especially at pass protection.
The rookie is supposedly looking good, and they may get Sherrod back to at least give them a little depth if not challenge for the left or right tackle position, Newhouse has a year of starting under his belt so he should be better. Not much of a bright side, but it is something.
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The most difficult part of the injury is the unintended future consequences. My guess is Newhouse goes back to LT and Bakhitari plays RT. Who knows when Sherrod comes back. Issue is someone else on the o line will get banged up eventually, even if it's just for a couple of series in Week 4. Now you're playing the juggling game, and have guys playing out of position potentially. It also probably forces the Pack to carry an extra o-lineman on their roster now.
Sucks to see guys going down for the season even before the first preseason game.
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I'm looking for the Bears to win 11 games this year. Major upgrades on the offensive line, paired with an offensive guru like Trestman will translate into at least one more win than last year. The defense is aging, but will still be effective. Losing Urlacher will really hurt from a leadership standpoint, but he was a shell of himself last year. The new guy filling in for him, DJ Williams very well may be a better player at this point in his career than a 36 year old Urlacher. The Cutler to Marshall tandem will be lethal, and they finally got a tight end who can actually catch the ball. Forte will be solid again, and Alshon Jeffery should be able to compliment Marshall nicely in the passing game. Go Bears
Agree on all accounts, except that I think 11 wins will be very tough for this team. Our schedule was a lot easier last year, especially through the first have of the season. There are a lot of tough away games for the Bears this year, plus 4 primetime games in which the Bears haven't fared too well with the last few seasons.
Even giving them the benefit of the doubt, I predict 10 wins. I hope I'm wrong! If they can win one or two of the tough games and take care of business on the rest, this team will make the playoffs.
1 - vs Bengals - Win
2 - vsVikings - Win
3 - @ Steelers (SNF) - Lose
4 - @ Lions - Win
5 - vs Saints - Win
6 - vs Giants (TNF) - Lose
7 - @ Redskins - Lose
8 - BYE
9 - @ Packers (MNF) - Lose
10 - vs Lions - Win
11 - vs Ravens - Lose
12 - @ Rams - Win
13 - @ Vikings - Win
14 - vs Cowboys (MNF) - Lose
15 - @ Browns - Win
16 - @ Eagles - Win
17 - vs Packers - Win
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Agree on all accounts, except that I think 11 wins will be very tough for this team. Our schedule was a lot easier last year, especially through the first have of the season. There are a lot of tough away games for the Bears this year, plus 4 primetime games in which the Bears haven't fared too well with the last few seasons.
Even giving them the benefit of the doubt, I predict 10 wins. I hope I'm wrong! If they can win one or two of the tough games and take care of business on the rest, this team will make the playoffs.
1 - vs Bengals - Win
2 - vsVikings - Win
3 - @ Steelers (SNF) - Lose
4 - @ Lions - Win
5 - vs Saints - Win
6 - vs Giants (TNF) - Lose
7 - @ Redskins - Lose
8 - BYE
9 - @ Packers (MNF) - Lose
10 - vs Lions - Win
11 - vs Ravens - Lose
12 - @ Rams - Win
13 - @ Vikings - Win
14 - vs Cowboys (MNF) - Lose
15 - @ Browns - Win
16 - @ Eagles - Win
17 - vs Packers - Win
5-1 in the division is tough.
Not sure they will beat MN and/or Detroit on the road.
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I'm looking for the Bears to win 11 games this year. Major upgrades on the offensive line, paired with an offensive guru like Trestman will translate into at least one more win than last year. The defense is aging, but will still be effective. Losing Urlacher will really hurt from a leadership standpoint, but he was a shell of himself last year. The new guy filling in for him, DJ Williams very well may be a better player at this point in his career than a 36 year old Urlacher. The Cutler to Marshall tandem will be lethal, and they finally got a tight end who can actually catch the ball. Forte will be solid again, and Alshon Jeffery should be able to compliment Marshall nicely in the passing game. Go Bears
I do not see that. They will be or should be better on offense, but there will be a learning curve with the new system and coaching staff. They will be better in the second half of the season, but may struggle in the first half. The defense will not be any better and they showed some age in the second half of last season. It will be tough to duplicate all those turnovers they had in the first half of last season. I see 9-7 maybe 10-6 if everything falls right for them .
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Yeah, I don't see how Detroit can be worse than last year. (Yeah I know...they're the Lions.) And while I think Minnesota might take a step back, they are going to still be dangerous. I think the Packers are the best team in the division and I don't think they go 5-1.
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I think if the Maclin, Pitta, Bulaga injuries have taught us anything, maybe wait a couple of weeks on predictions. Not that anyone of those players being gone dramatically makes those teams much better/worse, but still too early to make educated predictions.
On that note, there is no way the Bears go through this division 5-1.
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Bulaga most likely gone for the year. For what they were trying to accomplish in the offseason, that is a massive injury.
Spoken like a true Bears fan. A setback, not a catastrophe.
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Spoken like a true Bears fan. A setback, not a catastrophe.
Huh? Did you pay any attention to what they did in the offseason? They're entire offensive scheme was built around shuffling the offensive line. That's a massive injury in terms of their planning, it's 100% ignorant to think otherwise.
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It's bad because the options are going back to Newhouse...who was pretty bad last year...or going with Bakhtiari who might be fine but he's a rookie. No real good options right now.
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Huh? Did you pay any attention to what they did in the offseason? They're entire offensive scheme was built around shuffling the offensive line. That's a massive injury in terms of their planning, it's 100% ignorant to think otherwise.
I am totally aware of their plan to reshuffle the O-line and imo they will follow through on that plan with the personnel they have. It is a setback but not a catastrophe. You remember that they played w/o Bulaga the last half of the season, right? Are you sure it's a full 100% ignorant? Might it be only 50% or less ignorant? Maybe 25% ignorant? The arrogance of some Bears fans! IN any event, they'll have plenty to kick your a$$.
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It's bad because the options are going back to Newhouse...who was pretty bad last year...or going with Bakhtiari who might be fine but he's a rookie. No real good options right now.
No. He is not a rookie.
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Bakhtiari is a rookie. Drafted in the 4th round this year.
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Bakhtiari is a rookie. Drafted in the 4th round this year.
my bad. i stand corrected and thanks for the catch.
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I am totally aware of their plan to reshuffle the O-line and imo they will follow through on that plan with the personnel they have. It is a setback but not a catastrophe. You remember that they played w/o Bulaga the last half of the season, right? Are you sure it's a full 100% ignorant? Might it be only 50% or less ignorant? Maybe 25% ignorant? The arrogance of some Bears fans! IN any event, they'll have plenty to kick your a$$.
Yup, Bulaga missed 9 games last year. Which is part of the reason they went ahead and reshuffled the offensive line. Bulaga is/was the key piece they were moving. You're completely misunderstanding my take, which if you read my other posts, you'd figure out. I could go Bernstein on you with the "your", but I'm tired, so I won't.
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I am totally aware of their plan to reshuffle the O-line and imo they will follow through on that plan with the personnel they have. It is a setback but not a catastrophe. You remember that they played w/o Bulaga the last half of the season, right? Are you sure it's a full 100% ignorant? Might it be only 50% or less ignorant? Maybe 25% ignorant? The arrogance of some Bears fans! IN any event, they'll have plenty to kick your a$$.
You sound like an idiot.
MUDish is entirely spot on, as he usually is with the NFL.
It's much more than a setback, as the offensive line plan is completely altered. Any team losing an OL is a significant loss, quality linemen aren't available off the back of a truck.
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I am totally aware of their plan to reshuffle the O-line and imo they will follow through on that plan with the personnel they have. It is a setback but not a catastrophe. You remember that they played w/o Bulaga the last half of the season, right?
Yeah...and that didn't work out too well.
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Huh? Did you pay any attention to what they did in the offseason? They're entire offensive scheme was built around shuffling the offensive line. That's a massive injury in terms of their planning, it's 100% ignorant to think otherwise.
Its a huge injury no doubt, but not catastrophic. The main thing is they still have quite a bit of time to figure it out. Had they stuck all training camp into the reshuffle and then had Bulaga go down a week before the opener, then it would be a problem. Still they are no worse than last year and probably a little better with a better running game.
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Yeah...and that didn't work out too well.
They didn't lose to san fran in the playoff game because of poor o line play that is for damn sure. All you have to do is look at the number of yards they gave up. They scored enough points to win that game if the defense shows up even a little.
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Its a huge injury no doubt, but not catastrophic. The main thing is they still have quite a bit of time to figure it out. Had they stuck all training camp into the reshuffle and then had Bulaga go down a week before the opener, then it would be a problem. Still they are no worse than last year and probably a little better with a better running game.
I don't disagree with any of this. My main point was for in terms of their offseason agenda, losing Bulaga really kills what they were set out to accomplish.
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I don't disagree with any of this. My main point was for in terms of their offseason agenda, losing Bulaga really kills what they were set out to accomplish.
Absolutely, that was the big focus all off season, and in one play it is all shot to hell.
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Yeah...and that didn't work out too well.
Good enough to make a run in the post season.
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You sound like an idiot.
MUDish is entirely spot on, as he usually is with the NFL.
It's much more than a setback, as the offensive line plan is completely altered. Any team losing an OL is a significant loss, quality linemen aren't available off the back of a truck.
Ah, name calling. The last resort and lowest form of "debate".
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Ah, name calling. The last resort and lowest form of "debate".
Says the guy who called MUDish "ignorant."
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Ah, name calling. The last resort and lowest form of "debate".
I'll rephrase it.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Losing a 1st round draft pick OL lineman that was 50% of an entire blocking scheme redesign is more than a setback. If this happened in Chicago, Mully would be losing his mind tomorrow morning.
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Says the guy who called MUDish "ignorant."
Think you better reread that, chief. You got it backwards. Are you big enough to admit it and apologize? We'll see.
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Think you better reread that, chief. You got it backwards. Are you big enough to admit it and apologize? We'll see.
Yeah you are right. Sorry. (But Dish was still right about you being ignorant.)
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Yeah you are right. Sorry. (But Dish was still right about you being ignorant.)
Ah, name calling. The lowest form of "debate". I guess your lack of reading comprehension is the natural result of having a limited vocabulary. Bet you like the pictures, though.
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All this name calling and bickering between fans, I love it. Where every observation is perceived as a put down or diss, and all 4 fan bases have visions of a division title. I am ready for some football.
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Ah, name calling. The lowest form of "debate". I guess your lack of reading comprehension is the natural result of having a limited vocabulary. Bet you like the pictures, though.
nm....this is a stupid debate
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I'll rephrase it.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Losing a 1st round draft pick OL lineman that was 50% of an entire blocking scheme redesign is more than a setback. If this happened in Chicago, Mully would be losing his mind tomorrow morning.
You are over stating it, maybe wishful thinking on your part. It is just a set back and nothing more. If you think the team is going to go into the fetal position over losing a guy they didn’t have for 9 games last year anyway you are mistaken. If you think the Bulaga injury turns the Packers into an 8-8 team you are mistaken. The Packers under McCarthy and Thompson have shown that they do very well at over- coming more significant injuries than this. The offensive line will still be better than last year and that was good enough to beat the Bears twice.
The most likely scenario will be Bakhtiari at left tackle and Newhouse at right tackle unless Bakhtiari really tanks in the pre-season games. I think they already gave up on Newhouse at left tackle, that is why they moved him. It wasn’t like Bulaga was an all pro left tackle. It was still to be determined how he would hold up at left tackle. Bakhtiari may end up being better than Newhouse was last year and maybe better than Bulaga. All indications are that he will be very good, although a rookie at left tackle is always dicey.
As far as Mully, maybe you haven't noticed but the media always over reacts.
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Good enough to make a run in the post season.
Winning a home game against a team's back-up QB (who is now a WR, by the way) and then getting smoked on the road is your idea of a postseason run?
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Winning a home game against a team's back-up QB (who is now a WR, by the way) and then getting smoked on the road is your idea of a postseason run?
How'd the bears do?
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You are over stating it, maybe wishful thinking on your part. It is just a set back and nothing more. If you think the team is going to go into the fetal position over losing a guy they didn’t have for 9 games last year anyway you are mistaken. If you think the Bulaga injury turns the Packers into an 8-8 team you are mistaken. The Packers under McCarthy and Thompson have shown that they do very well at over- coming more significant injuries than this. The offensive line will still be better than last year and that was good enough to beat the Bears twice.
The most likely scenario will be Bakhtiari at left tackle and Newhouse at right tackle unless Bakhtiari really tanks in the pre-season games. I think they already gave up on Newhouse at left tackle, that is why they moved him. It wasn’t like Bulaga was an all pro left tackle. It was still to be determined how he would hold up at left tackle. Bakhtiari may end up being better than Newhouse was last year and maybe better than Bulaga. All indications are that he will be very good, although a rookie at left tackle is always dicey.
As far as Mully, maybe you haven't noticed but the media always over reacts.
1. Not wishful thinking, Packers fan.
2. It doesn't make this an 8-8 team, but it greater than a setback. See the Packers line move yesterday as Super Bowl Contenders.
3. Nice media cliche, but losing an OL is on the short list of player not to lose.
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1. Not wishful thinking, Packers fan.
2. It doesn't make this an 8-8 team, but it greater than a setback. See the Packers line move yesterday as Super Bowl Contenders.
3. Nice media cliche, but losing an OL is on the short list of player not to lose.
Schadenfraude at its' most naked. The Pack will still have enough to smoke your guys.
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nm....this is a stupid debate
only since you've been in it.
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Schadenfraude at its' most naked. The Pack will still have enough to smoke your guys.
Going to be tough when the Pack goes up against the Pack then.
As with many NFL fans, you need to take the shades off.
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Going to be tough when the Pack goes up against the Pack then.
As with many NFL fans, you need to take the shades off.
So, what's your prediction for the seasonal W- L then?
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So, what's your prediction for the seasonal W- L then?
W-L predictions on a NFL season in the beginning of August is the worst sports media cliche of them all.
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Detroit has two 'ifs'. The offensive line and the secondary. And how those two perform will dictate whether or not Detroit is a playoff contender or not. If the offensive line gels and can keep Stafford on his feet and healthy, and if the secondary stays healthy and doesn't do its annual imitation of a Spinal Tap drummer, 9-7/10-6. If either one of those things go wrong, 5-11.
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How'd the bears do?
What does that have to do with what I asked?
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What does that have to do with what I asked?
It doesn't when you in are in a meathead argument.
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W-L predictions on a NFL season in the beginning of August is the worst sports media cliche of them all.
So is predicting a catastrophe before the first snap of the season.
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It doesn't when you in are in a meathead argument.
Stache' is not a meathead. Take it back.
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Speaking in generalizations, I've always found Packers fans to be a unique breed. They are probably more knowledgeable about their own team than any fan base in the league, but abstraction and objective football discussion often evades them. They are more likely to take observations about their team as an insult than perhaps any other fan base in the league. I have no argument that they are among, if not the most passionate fan bases in the league, but it's a very exceptionalistic type of passion.
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Speaking in generalizations, I've always found Packers fans to be a unique breed. They are probably more knowledgeable about their own team than any fan base in the league, but abstraction and objective football discussion often evades them. They are more likely to take observations about their team as an insult than perhaps any other fan base in the league. I have no argument that they are among, if not the most passionate fan bases in the league, but it's a very exceptionalistic type of passion.
Well said.
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1. Not wishful thinking, Packers fan.
2. It doesn't make this an 8-8 team, but it greater than a setback. See the Packers line move yesterday as Super Bowl Contenders.
3. Nice media cliche, but losing an OL is on the short list of player not to lose.
I gave you a rational argument with supporting facts on why the injury isn’t as catastrophic as you are making it out to be, and you hide behind the Packer fan, green and gold glasses and meathead fan argument? I think you should look at yourself Bear fan.
Offensive line is a tough position to lose no doubt, but injuries are part of the nfl and the Packers have time to figure it out. The 2010 Super Bowl team had as many as 15 players on injured reserve including key players on both sides of the ball. They have a knack for filling holes without much drop off. We can argue about the semantics of “setback” all you want, but we will see as the season goes on.
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I gave you a rational argument with supporting facts on why the injury isn’t as catastrophic as you are making it out to be, and you hide behind the Packer fan, green and gold glasses and meathead fan argument? I think you should look at yourself Bear fan.
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure PTM just pointed out that he is a Packers fan.
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Speaking in generalizations, I've always found Packers fans to be a unique breed. They are probably more knowledgeable about their own team than any fan base in the league, but abstraction and objective football discussion often evades them. They are more likely to take observations about their team as an insult than perhaps any other fan base in the league. I have no argument that they are among, if not the most passionate fan bases in the league, but it's a very exceptionalistic type of passion.
Most of the points you make are generalizations about all fans and particularly nfl fans. The comments made by Bear fans are slanted and made from their perspective as well. Speaking in generalizations, as you say, I find Bear fans extremely arrogant, and they have no reason to be.
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how about that Vince Young eh?
Bulaga is alright but he ain't the greatest left tackle, oh wait, he's never played that position in the NFL yet has he?
Too bad Tretter broke his leg in May, he could've added some now needed depth
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I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure PTM just pointed out that he is a Packers fan.
Perhaps. That's not how I read it and based on some of his recent previous posts.
So what it is it PTM?
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I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure PTM just pointed out that he is a Packers fan.
Blinders still on. Seeing red when the Pack was criticized.
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Blinders still on. Seeing red when the Pack was criticized.
You are wrong about the blinders and the criticism. Go back and read my recent posts. I acknowledged it is a bad setback for the team. I do not agree with you that it is season changing injury, and I gave reasons why. How does that make me have blinders on or seeing red.
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You are wrong about the blinders and the criticism. Go back and read my recent posts. I acknowledged it is a bad setback for the team. I do not agree with you that it is season changing injury, and I gave reasons why. How does that make me have blinders on or seeing red.
I wasn't really referring to you, but Wiz.
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I wasn't really referring to you, but Wiz.
ok, I have a soft spot in my heart for Wiz because he is a Packer fan.
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I wasn't really referring to you, but Wiz.
Awww, I didn't know you cared!
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Preseason can't end soon enough for the Pack. Cobb leaves practice hurt, Nelson has surgery, hopes to return for opener.
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Speaking in generalizations, I've always found Packers fans to be a unique breed. They are probably more knowledgeable about their own team than any fan base in the league, but abstraction and objective football discussion often evades them. They are more likely to take observations about their team as an insult than perhaps any other fan base in the league. I have no argument that they are among, if not the most passionate fan bases in the league, but it's a very exceptionalistic type of passion.
I am a Packer fan and I would go one step further. I think Packer fans know a lot about their team and are indeed very passionate about their team. But as a function of the fan-base's size, I think the average Packer fan has the football knowledge of a shrew.
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I am a Packers fan.
Injuries are starting to stack up. Not too worried about Jordy, but not expecting him to be full strength for the first 4.
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I am a Packer fan and I would go one step further. I think Packer fans know a lot about their team and are indeed very passionate about their team. But as a function of the fan-base's size, I think the average Packer fan has the football knowledge of a shrew.
Absolutely wrong. I think there was an article a few years ago that showed that Packers fans are the most knowledgeable.
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Absolutely wrong. I think there was an article a few years ago that showed that Packers fans are the most knowledgeable.
26% of NFL players said they were the most knowledgeable, so you are correct.
I do tend to side with Sultan's assesment though, they know they're team and the division. However, saying something critical of the team and you get this guy:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-S0YhqX1nrJI/TrQSUGwQEJI/AAAAAAAAC1U/XPeSe3c2afo/s200/2R%2Bgumby_blockhead.jpg)
Example - I was discussing injuries to Bulaga, Cobb and Jordy with a guy on a site this afternoon. I was a bit down on the Bulaga injury and that Jordy was going to be behind. It then seemed like I was arguing with Wiz, I ended the discussion when the guy questioned me if I was a shareholder or not.
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Preseason can't end soon enough
Period. It's the worst part of the season for everyone. You lose good, meaningful players to meaningless games. Preseason should be shortened to one or two games because of the game's brutality and physical ness.
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Period. It's the worst part of the season for everyone. You lose good, meaningful players to meaningless games. Preseason should be shortened to one or two games because of the game's brutality and physical ness.
Most of these guys are getting hurt in scrimmages and practice. Barely any preseason games have been played.
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Most of these guys are getting hurt in scrimmages and practice. Barely any preseason games have been played.
I'm considering every year.
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Absolutely wrong. I think there was an article a few years ago that showed that Packers fans are the most knowledgeable.
Well, that is a damning indictment of football fans everywhere then.
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Well, that is a damning indictment of football fans everywhere then.
Have you ever spoken to the average Cowboy fan, or Falcon fan, or Houston fan, etc. they are basically morons about football and the reality of their teams. Many cowboy fans think their team is entitled to win the Super Bowl every year. I am not speaking of everybody, but the fans as a whole.
Packer fans are on the upper end of general football knowledge and knowledge of their own team, and many unbiased sources have said and wrote as much. Do they get defensive? Maybe that is a fair statement, but that doesn't mean every opinion of a packer fan is colored with green and gold glasses as some suggest. It works both ways, and their is plenty of blue and orange glasses floating around this particular site as well.
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We've got him. Matt Cassel.
(http://gifatron.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/matt_cassel_hat.gif)
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Well, that is a damning indictment of football fans everywhere then.
+1
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Packers fan here. Reigning MUScoop Fantasy Football Champion so we know I know more than everyone here about the NFL.
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+1
Football fans in general are the most meatheaded (my unscientific research).
Packers fans are knowledgeable, but they do consider the Packers the crown jewel of sports, and anybody that says ANYTHING against them, is automatically some sort of hater... and thus the meatheaded reaction begins.
The Vikes have their share of white trash fans who seem to just carry around too much anger... and far too many of them wear face paint. It's disturbing the amount of face paint at a Vikes game.
Bear fans always want more defense, RUN THE BALL!, and they want every player to give 110%, "Just like Butkus!" The post game radio shows are EPIC when they lose.
I don't know anything about Detroit fans.
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Football fans in general are the most meatheaded (my unscientific research).
Packers fans are knowledgeable, but they do consider the Packers the crown jewel of sports, and anybody that says ANYTHING against them, is automatically some sort of hater... and thus the meatheaded reaction begins.
The Vikes have their share of white trash fans who seem to just carry around too much anger... and far too many of them wear face paint. It's disturbing the amount of face paint at a Vikes game.
Bear fans always want more defense, RUN THE BALL!, and they want every player to give 110%, "Just like Butkus!" The post game radio shows are EPIC when they lose.
I don't know anything about Detroit fans.
Dead on correct. I get great enjoyment tuning into Bernstein and Boores (sp) after the Bears lose to the Packers. Very entertaining.
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The Vikes have their share of white trash fans who seem to just carry around too much anger jealousy ... and far too many of them wear face paint. It's disturbing the amount of face paint at a Vikes game.
Fixed.
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Dead on correct. I get great enjoyment tuning into Bernstein and Boores Boers (sp) after the Bears lose to the Packers. Extremely Very entertaining.
Fixed it for you.
Flipside, WTMJ used to get some hilarious drunk callers after Packers losses. It seems like they've cut down on these callers the past five years, I remember one boorish drunk lady calling up and was completely incoherent.
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Fixed.
That's part of it.
It's a mix of disappointment, anger, jealousy, and alcohol.
It's like Cleveland, but with less despair and self loathing.
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It's like Cleveland, but with less despair and self loathing.
Brought to you by the Minnesota Office of Tourism
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Football fans in general are the most meatheaded (my unscientific research).
Packers fans are knowledgeable, but they do consider the Packers the crown jewel of sports, and anybody that says ANYTHING against them, is automatically some sort of hater... and thus the meatheaded reaction begins.
The Vikes have their share of white trash fans who seem to just carry around too much anger... and far too many of them wear face paint. It's disturbing the amount of face paint at a Vikes game.
Bear fans always want more defense, RUN THE BALL!, and they want every player to give 110%, "Just like Butkus!" The post game radio shows are EPIC when they lose.
I don't know anything about Detroit fans.
Dead-on!
As a Bears fan, I have to say the proportion of meathead Bears fans out there is pretty substantial. However, the silver lining to every Bears loss is listening to B&B take calls the following day because it's just so damn entertaining, especially when B&B relish in the idiocy of their callers and Dan doesn't go off on them.
After a loss, the meathead Bears fans tend to rip the head coach for not focusing solely on defense and smashmouth football (aka "Chicago Bears football").
After a loss, the meathead Packers fans tend to blame the officials or some sort of flukish happening because there's no way that another team could have just flat-out beaten their beloved Pack without some sort of strange turn of events.
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Dead-on!
After a loss, the meathead Packers fans tend to blame the officials or some sort of flukish happening because there's no way that another team could have just flat-out beaten their beloved Pack without some sort of strange turn of events.
Right, because no other fan base would complain about that Seattle game last year for example.
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Right, because no other fan base would complain about that Seattle game last year for example.
That's obviously an exception. But as a Bears fan I loved the call.
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Right, because no other fan base would complain about that Seattle game last year for example.
Packers fans are knowledgeable, but they do consider the Packers the crown jewel of sports, and anybody that says ANYTHING against them, is automatically some sort of hater... and thus the meatheaded reaction begins.
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-k4x-_wriSyM/T9TVLUKTftI/AAAAAAAACYI/BMhMR0aqWPU/s320/user6133_pic34477_1326494238.jpg)
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Guns,
At the risk of keeping this ridiculous topic going….
The reason I brought the Seattle game up was because Merritt was one of those last year who thought the call was accurate and Packer fans were just being crybabies. I am pretty sure that is one of the things he was alluding to in his post. That sounded an awful lot like a bias, meatball fan, as you put it, accusing other fan bases of exactly the same thing he is/was doing.
The fact of the matter is if you are a fan of a team, you have an automatic built in bias to some degree. I find it amusing that some Bear fans here play the “meatball fan” or team bias card every time someone says something negative about the Bears or positive about their rivals. I call it as I see it, is their some bias based on my perspective, hell yes, but there is just as much on the other side too, you and others do not see it because of the nfl fan blinders.
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Guns,
At the risk of keeping this ridiculous topic going….
The reason I brought the Seattle game up was because Merritt was one of those last year who thought the call was accurate and Packer fans were just being crybabies. I am pretty sure that is one of the things he was alluding to in his post. That sounded an awful lot like a bias, meatball fan, as you put it, accusing other fan bases of exactly the same thing he is/was doing.
Show me where I said that. I'll save you the time - I didn't. If anything, I probably said that I could see how the official could make that call in real time and that there were other bad calls in the game that went in favor of GB.
The fact of the matter is if you are a fan of a team, you have an automatic built in bias to some degree. I find it amusing that some Bear fans here play the “meatball fan” or team bias card every time someone says something negative about the Bears or positive about their rivals. I call it as I see it, is their some bias based on my perspective, hell yes, but there is just as much on the other side too, you and others do not see it because of the nfl fan blinders.
Again, show me some examples of Bears fans on here playing the team bias card because someone says something negative about the Bears.
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Show me where I said that. I'll save you the time - I didn't. If anything, I probably said that I could see how the official could make that call in real time and that there were other bad calls in the game that went in favor of GB.
Heres one:
- 12 men on the field call that was reviewed. Roach was off the field. Led to 3 points for GB instead of a punt.
- Williams' INT clearly hit the ground. Led to 3 points for GB.
- Personal foul call on Carimi should have been off-setting or nothing. Moved Bears from 2nd and 11 at GB 38 to 2nd and 26 at own 47.
- Illegal contact call on Wright. He stood there and Finley ran into him. Instead of 2nd and 10 at CHI 38, 1st and 10 at CHI 33.
- Raji (maybe Pickett?) grabbed Allen's facemask not once, but twice, while bringing him down in the backfield. Led to 3rd and 6 at own 41 instead of 1st and 10 at GB 44.
Another:
Dear Packers,
Enjoy the win we gave you.
Sincerely,
The Chicago Bears & Replacement Refs
Another:
Don't get me wrong, the Bears did plenty to lose this game by themselves but the Packer-friendly officiating didn't help.
Specifically to the Seattle game:
The play was not reviewable because simultaneous possession is considered a judgment call and when it is slowed down to frame-by-frame and viewed from difference angles, it becomes obvious that an incorrect call was made. However, if you watch the play in real time (with an unbiased eye), it's easy to see why an official could view Jennings and Tate having possession of the football simultaneously, especially when you consider that the official himself was running and did not have the same angle(s) as the TV camera(s). The play happened very quickly and Tate briefly ended up on top of Jennings with both holding the football. That's what the official was basing his call on. If anything, the "outrage" should be over the fact that a play that could have been easily corrected was considered to be non-reviewable.
That's an awful lot of ref complaining from someone who is accusing others of it.
Again, show me some examples of Bears fans on here playing the team bias card because someone says something negative about the Bears.
What the hell does this have to do with Cutler? Take off the green and gold glasses for christs sake. This has to do with common sense and not making idiotic statements. He's getting beaten up nationally for his stupid comments and rightfully so. My god, who cares that he's the Packers QB. Any idiot that said that should get hammered.
You are correct you didn't say anything specifically about the Seattle call being incorrect, but you did chirp about quite a bit. Also quite a bit of ref complaining in general, and that's just a few.
Don't get me wrong I think you are one of the better posters here, but I bet you wear some blue and orange glasses once in a while. (Sorry about the difficult to read post, my computer illiterate ars couldn't figure out how to post old posts.)
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Where did I say that the officials cost the Bears a game? Again, I actually said specifically, "the Bears did plenty to lose this game by themselves." I also never said that I don't point out poor calls made by the officials. That's different than many Packers fans I know who seem to think that any time their team loses, it's a total fluke.
What is the context of the other quotes? Specifically, the bad calls in the Bears-GB game and the bottom quote about Cutler?
In the end, you're really proving the point that Packers fans often get all riled up when you say anything remotely negative about their team.
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Where did I say that the officials cost the Bears a game? Again, I actually said specifically, "the Bears did plenty to lose this game by themselves." I also never said that I don't point out poor calls made by the officials. That's different than many Packers fans I know who seem to think that any time their team loses, it's a total fluke.
What is the context of the other quotes? Specifically, the bad calls in the Bears-GB game and the bottom quote about Cutler?
In the end, you're really proving the point that Packers fans often get all riled up when you say anything remotely negative about their team.
I just cut and pasted direct posts made by you, all complaining about refs. The bottom quote was made by MUdish, but it is an example of someone playing the team bias card.
I really am not riled up at all and don't get riled up from negative comments about the packers. What I am trying to point out is that Bear fans and other fans act the same way, yet call out others for the exact same behavior. As far as I am concerned this pissing match is over.
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In the end, you're really proving the point that Packers fans often get all riled up when you say anything remotely negative about their team.
Plenty of Bears fans got riled up here when I told them Cutler isn't a top rate QB.
Fans of all teams do this, yet some people like to act like Packers fans are the only ones that do this.
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Plenty of Bears fans got riled up here when I told them Cutler isn't a top rate QB.
Fans of all teams do this, yet some people like to act like Packers fans are the only ones that do this.
thank you, that's all I was trying to say, you did it in one sentence
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I really am not riled up at all and don't get riled up from negative comments about the packers. What I am trying to point out is that Bear fans and other fans act the same way, yet call out others for the exact same behavior. As far as I am concerned this pissing match is over.
Fans of all teams do this, yet some people like to act like Packers fans are the only ones that do this.
Of course all fans do this. I never said otherwise. That's what being a fan is. However, based on my own experiences, Packers fans seem to do this far more than other fans.
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Of course all fans do this. I never said otherwise. That's what being a fan is. However, based on my own experiences, Packers fans seem to do this far more than other fans.
ok, last thing, (I hope). Maybe you are right, packer fans may bitch more and may be more defensive, I don't know. But, maybe just maybe your bias as a Bear fan and hatred for the Packers slants your analysis and your own experiences.
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Again, show me some examples of Bears fans on here playing the team bias card because someone says something negative about the Bears.
What the hell does this have to do with Cutler? Take off the green and gold glasses for christs sake. This has to do with common sense and not making idiotic statements. He's getting beaten up nationally for his stupid comments and rightfully so. My god, who cares that he's the Packers QB. Any idiot that said that should get hammered.
Hairy, man...I'm almost at a loss on what to say here...umm...YOU brought up Jay Cutler (not me, you) in reference to Ryan Braun and Aaron Rodgers. How in the hell is this bias of me as a Bears fan to bash you on this? Again, Y.O.U. brought him up....so yeah...it has ZERO to do with the Bears, never did have anything to do with them or Cutler.
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Again, show me some examples of Bears fans on here playing the team bias card because someone says something negative about the Bears.
What the hell does this have to do with Cutler? Take off the green and gold glasses for christs sake. This has to do with common sense and not making idiotic statements. He's getting beaten up nationally for his stupid comments and rightfully so. My god, who cares that he's the Packers QB. Any idiot that said that should get hammered.
Hairy, man...I'm almost at a loss on what to say here...umm...YOU brought up Jay Cutler (not me, you) in reference to Ryan Braun and Aaron Rodgers. How in the hell is this bias of me as a Bears fan to bash you on this? Again, Y.O.U. brought him up....so yeah...it has ZERO to do with the Bears, never did have anything to do with them or Cutler.
Dish,
Didn't mean to call you out on anything. Merritt asked for an example of a poster calling a Packer fan bias. The quote "take off the green and gold glasses..." pretty much is telling me I have bias.
I am not insinuating that you are bias. In fact, you are probably the most un-bias poster here regarding the NFL. Although that little Bear fan in you comes out once in a while.
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Dish,
Didn't mean to call you out on anything. Merritt asked for an example of a poster calling a Packer fan bias. The quote "take off the green and gold glasses..." pretty much is telling me I have bias.
I am not insinuating that you are bias. In fact, you are probably the most un-bias poster here regarding the NFL. Although that little Bear fan in you comes out once in a while.
Looks like I misunderstood your original point. I thought you meant that every time someone says something negative about the Bears, the Bears fans show their bias by defending their team/players, not that Bears fans call out other fans as being biased. Don't want to speak for anyone else, but seems like others understood it that same way.
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Looks like I misunderstood your original point. I thought you meant that every time someone says something negative about the Bears, the Bears fans show their bias by defending their team/players, not that Bears fans call out other fans as being biased. Don't want to speak for anyone else, but seems like others understood it that same way.
Correct, my bad, having problems articulating today. My point is almost every time I make a negative comment about the Bears or positive comment about the packers I get called bias or wearing green and gold glasses by bear fans. It's not true, I actually try to give supporting evidence to my comments.
I don't think Bear fans particularly over defend their team or players, maybe the opposite is more true.
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I think fans are fans no matter which team (speaking in general terms) In your experience you mention that Packer fans sem to do this far more than others, question, is that perhaps just because you have more exposure to Packer fans than other teams fans?
Of course all fans do this. I never said otherwise. That's what being a fan is. However, based on my own experiences, Packers fans seem to do this far more than other fans.
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For the record, Packer fans are great fans, maybe the best in the NFL. There are a handful of franchises that sell out, travel well, have tradition. I'd put the Pack, Bears, Cowboys, Steelers, Giants, Redskins, Chiefs as probably those franchises that stand out. I've said this before, but both my work experience with the Bears and much moreso as a season ticket holder, for the most part, Bears/Pack games are civilized at Soldier Field. No opponent has more fights in the stands than when the Vikings come to town. What exactly that means, I don't know, I'm using my sample size of the last 20 years.
Packer fans should be passionate and knowledgable. They have a great facility, tradition/history on par with any franchise, extremely well managed/coached, and have perhaps the best paper guy in the league in McGinn. All of this combined with being the smallest market in the league, and having a fully invested (literally) community team makes the Packers franchise probably the most unique in sports. To an extent, the Bears and Packers will forever be tied at the hip, with Halas (to a degree) making the NFL system work so Green Bay could survive. Sure I'm a Bears fan, but being an NFL fan and having gone to school in the state of Wisconsin, I have the utmost respect for the Packers. Of course I want to see the Pack (and Vikes, Lions) lose each week and the Bears win, but the NFL fan in me far and away appreciates great play and great coaching, no matter what colors the other team (or my team) has on.
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For the record, Packer fans are great fans, maybe the best in the NFL. There are a handful of franchises that sell out, travel well, have tradition. I'd put the Pack, Bears, Cowboys, Steelers, Giants, Redskins, Chiefs as probably those franchises that stand out. I've said this before, but both my work experience with the Bears and much moreso as a season ticket holder, for the most part, Bears/Pack games are civilized at Soldier Field. No opponent has more fights in the stands than when the Vikings come to town. What exactly that means, I don't know, I'm using my sample size of the last 20 years.
Packer fans should be passionate and knowledgable. They have a great facility, tradition/history on par with any franchise, extremely well managed/coached, and have perhaps the best paper guy in the league in McGinn. All of this combined with being the smallest market in the league, and having a fully invested (literally) community team makes the Packers franchise probably the most unique in sports. To an extent, the Bears and Packers will forever be tied at the hip, with Halas (to a degree) making the NFL system work so Green Bay could survive. Sure I'm a Bears fan, but being an NFL fan and having gone to school in the state of Wisconsin, I have the utmost respect for the Packers. Of course I want to see the Pack (and Vikes, Lions) lose each week and the Bears win, but the NFL fan in me far and away appreciates great play and great coaching, no matter what colors the other team (or my team) has on.
just so you know where I come from, I respect the Bears and their fans. There are not many franchises that can match their history. However, as a Packer fan they are still a bitter rival, but that doesn't mean I don't respect them. If you would ask me my most hated team the Bears would be a ways down the list believe it or not. Vikings would earn the top spot followed by Cowboys and Lions.
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When asked if the Vikings have championship qualities...
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"We do," Jennings told KFXN-FM, via FoxSportsNorth.com. "One of the things that obviously drew me to coming over here was the makeup of the team. When I came over here, I kind of had, I was kind of brainwashed. There's no 'kind of' to it. Being over in Green Bay, you're brainwashed to think that anyone in the division is just tiers below.
"So coming over here I meet the people within the organization and I'm like, 'Wow, these are really great people.' "
Skol Vikings!
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Jennings just shows how naive he was if that statement has any ring of truth to it.
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When asked if the Vikings have championship qualities...
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"We do," Jennings told KFXN-FM, via FoxSportsNorth.com. "One of the things that obviously drew me to coming over here was the makeup of the team. When I came over here, I kind of had, I was kind of brainwashed. There's no 'kind of' to it. Being over in Green Bay, you're brainwashed to think that anyone in the division is just tiers below.
"So coming over here I meet the people within the organization and I'm like, 'Wow, these are really great people.' "
Skol Vikings!
I am disappointed in Jennings. I thought he was a great receiver and a class act. I didn't like him going to the queens, but I understood it.
He should just keep his mouth shut and play football, he is making himself look bad. I can't figure out if he has animosity or he is doing it because the Viking fans eat it up and he gets attention for it, probably some combination of both.
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I am disappointed in Jennings. I thought he was a great receiver and a class act. I didn't like him going to the queens, but I understood it.
He should just keep his mouth shut and play football, he is making himself look bad. I can't figure out if he has animosity or he is doing it because the Viking fans eat it up and he gets attention for it, probably some combination of both.
I have to wonder if the PR department eggs former Packers to say things like this to sell tickets. Favre, Jennings, Sharper... etc. All talk a bunch of trash as Vikings, but plenty of other players who go to different franchises really say nothing.
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When asked if the Vikings have championship qualities...
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"We do," Jennings told KFXN-FM, via FoxSportsNorth.com. "One of the things that obviously drew me to coming over here was the makeup of the team. When I came over here, I kind of had, I was kind of brainwashed. There's no 'kind of' to it. Being over in Green Bay, you're brainwashed to think that anyone in the division is just tiers below.
"So coming over here I meet the people within the organization and I'm like, 'Wow, these are really great people.' "
Skol Vikings!
Obsession is never pretty.
I mean honestly...this is bordering on pathetic.
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I have to wonder if the PR department eggs former Packers to say things like this to sell tickets. Favre, Jennings, Sharper... etc. All talk a bunch of trash as Vikings, but plenty of other players who go to different franchises really say nothing.
It’s interesting. They seem to jump on almost every Packer re-tread as if to spite the Packers. Not a good business plan for a successful NFL team. The Wilfs strike me as a little smarmy.
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When asked if the Vikings have championship qualities...
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"We do," Jennings told KFXN-FM, via FoxSportsNorth.com. "One of the things that obviously drew me to coming over here was the makeup of the team. When I came over here, I kind of had, I was kind of brainwashed. There's no 'kind of' to it. Being over in Green Bay, you're brainwashed to think that anyone in the division is just tiers below.
"So coming over here I meet the people within the organization and I'm like, 'Wow, these are really great people.' "
Skol Vikings!
Isn't it a good thing to think of everyone else in your division as being inferior to you?
Remember when Lovie Smith said that his #1 goal was to beat the Packers? Well, everyone with a brain knew that was just rah-rah, PR-speak...yet there were a lot of brainless Bears fans who bought into it. In the same respect, I have a feeling that there are some brainless Vikings fans running out to buy #15 jerseys because Jennings is their new favorite player.
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When asked if the Vikings have championship qualities...
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"We do," Jennings told KFXN-FM, via FoxSportsNorth.com. "One of the things that obviously drew me to coming over here was the makeup of the team. When I came over here, I kind of had, I was kind of brainwashed. There's no 'kind of' to it. Being over in Green Bay, you're brainwashed to think that anyone in the division is just tiers below.
"So coming over here I meet the people within the organization and I'm like, 'Wow, these are really great people.' "
Skol Vikings!
I don't know whether or not the people within the Packers organization actually take on the attitude of being tiers above the rest of the division or not, but if they do would they be wrong? I mean, don't get me wrong, it's real cute that the Vikings have really nice people in the organization and all, but apparently nice people don't win you championships, as based upon the fact that the Vikings have never won a championship. Maybe they need to start brainwashing their players.
Obsession is never pretty.
I mean honestly...this is bordering on pathetic.
It has been beyond pathetic for a while now.
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The Wilfs strike me as a little smarmy.
That would be the understatement of the year.
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Supposedly the team has told Jennings to pipe down about the Pack, but he keeps going. I understand.
It's sort of like when people are freed from some strange, twisted cult and then want to tell people about how bizarre their experience was.
I'd rather have Jennings talking smack about Green Bay than Kluwe going on his non-football related whine-sessions.
The Wilfs flat out tax my pockets.
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Isn't it a good thing to think of everyone else in your division as being inferior to you?
I agree. His comments don't make much sense to me. If that is the culture they have successfully built for their team/organization, I don't see how that is anything but a positive.
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I agree. His comments don't make much sense to me. If that is the culture they have successfully built for their team/organization, I don't see how that is anything but a positive.
It demonstrates a lack of basic respect. Fans talking crap about others, "you guys suck" is one thing... an organization preaching, "Detroit is a horrible franchise (true or not), screw them all the way to hell!" is another.
Bigger issue in football? Concussions, or the morality of the Packers?
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It demonstrates a lack of basic respect. Fans talking crap about others, "you guys suck" is one thing... an organization preaching, "Detroit is a horrible franchise (true or not), screw them all the way to hell!" is another.
Bigger issue in football? Concussions, or the morality of the Packers?
Aww, JayBee's feelings hurt because his team is always playing 3rd fiddle to the Packers and Bears? :'(
Win something and then maybe the Packers won't have to feel so superior to everyone in the NFC North.
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Wades, think you might want to rephrase that.
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Wades, think you might want to rephrase that.
Haha. Whoops?
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Haha. Whoops?
yeah you meant superior :)
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Aww, JayBee's feelings hurt because his team is always playing 3rd fiddle to the Packers and Bears? :'(
Win something and then maybe the Packers won't have to feel so superior to everyone in the NFC North.
Last 5 years (always judge based on 5 years) - NFC North Titles - 2 Minnesota Vikings, 2 gren bay, 1 chicgo
NFC North teams - total playoff berths since '66 - Minnesota tops.
NFL Championship winners - Minnesota 1, green bey 1
We've been winning. SKOL VIKINGS!
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Last 5 years (always judge based on 5 years) - NFC North Titles - 2 Minnesota Vikings, 2 gren bay, 1 chicgo
NFC North teams - total playoff berths since '66 - Minnesota tops.
NFL Championship winners - Minnesota 1, green bey 1
We've been winning. SKOL VIKINGS!
Haha you're all over the place. Congrats on the NFC North Championships. Little franchises that don't win Super Bowls seem to love those things. The Packers love taking the 6 seed and winning the Super Bowl.
You judge things by the last 5 years, unless it doesn't fit your agenda, and then we'll go back to 1966 haha. Nicely done.
1-1 in NFL Championships? Early start to your Friday night, hey?
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When did the vikings win the nfc championship and make it to the superbowl in the last 5 years? Did the Saints have a win vacated and I missed it.
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Bro are u guyz even an owner?
(http://cdn1.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/13264385/159013282.0_standard_352.0.jpg)
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Bro are u guyz even an owner?
(http://cdn1.sbnation.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/13264385/159013282.0_standard_352.0.jpg)
Nope.
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Cutler picked off on his first pass of the preseason.
Shoulda been sent packing with Lovie and Urlacher.
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Haters gonna hate.
Its the preseason, let me quote Jay for you... " Don't care."
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Christian Ponder also with a pick in his first series. Dead arm. But hey, Greg Jennings is there now and they have some really great people in the organization! All Packers are jerks because they have the mindset that they are good.
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Haters gonna hate.
Its the preseason, let me quote Jay for you... " Don't care."
You don't care when your Starting QB throws a INT? Preseason or not. Sounds like you're cool playing second fiddle to Green Bay.
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You don't care when your Starting QB throws a INT? Preseason or not. Sounds like you're cool playing second fiddle to Green Bay.
Um....do you care that GB was shutout in their preseason opener? Probably not. Cutler finished 6-7 on the rest of his throws with 2 of his starting WR sitting out. (Marshall and Bennett)
It's a new offense and the first play of preseason...but thanks for the concern.
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Um....do you care that GB was shutout in their preseason opener? Probably not. Cutler finished 6-7 on the rest of his throws with 2 of his starting WR sitting out. (Marshall and Bennett)
It's a new offense and the first play of preseason...but thanks for the concern.
Your point is well taken and honestly I couldn't care less about the preseason (you can take a few things away from it or just get the feel for whether newer players are ready to contribute or not, but it really doesn't mean much), but the Packers' starting offense played 1 possession without its top 2 receivers and marched 80 yards down field to the 1/2 yard line. Jermichael Finley was Jermichael Finley and dropped a touchdown, so really when DJ Williams takes his place the Packers offense puts up 7 points in their 1 series. As it was, the Packers would've still put 3 points on the board in the regular season, but in the preseason why not go for it on 4th and goal at the 2? So really no worries about the shutout. The only time the starting offense took the field (again without their top 2 receivers) they marched down the field with absolutely no problem.
Hard to take much away from the starting defense. But I do know that Palmer and Stanton sure had no trouble shredding the 2nd team defense.
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You don't care when your Starting QB throws a INT? Preseason or not. Sounds like you're cool playing second fiddle to Green Bay.
No, I don't care at all about Jay throwing an INT in the preseason.
Frankly, I don't get widely bent out of shape over occasional INTs in the regular season, crap happens. Cutler takes risks, just like many QBs. I enjoy him taking some risk, and I understand the consequences. I am not sure how that translates into me being "cool playing second fiddle to Green Bay."
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No, I don't care at all about Jay throwing an INT in the preseason.
Frankly, I don't get widely bent out of shape over occasional INTs in the regular season, crap happens. Cutler takes risks, just like many QBs. I enjoy him taking some risk, and I understand the consequences. I am not sure how that translates into me being "cool playing second fiddle to Green Bay."
Rodgers doesn't take a lot of risks. That's part of the reason why GB allowed 50+ sacks last season. For better or worse, Cutler is more likely to force something and try to make a play, while Rodgers is more likely to take a sack and move on. As a fan, both approaches can be equally frustrating. Obviously there are times when Cutler needs to eat the ball (but, IMO, he's too confident/stubborn) and there are times Rodgers needs to get rid of the ball (but, IMO, he likes his stats too much).
Rodgers' approach limits TOs but also misses some opportunities. Cutler's approach can make big plays but can also get OCs fired.
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Rodgers doesn't take a lot of risks. That's part of the reason why GB allowed 50+ sacks last season. For better or worse, Cutler is more likely to force something and try to make a play, while Rodgers is more likely to take a sack and move on. As a fan, both approaches can be equally frustrating. Obviously there are times when Cutler needs to eat the ball (but, IMO, he's too confident/stubborn) and there are times Rodgers needs to get rid of the ball (but, IMO, he likes his stats too much).
Rodgers' approach limits TOs but also misses some opportunities. Cutler's approach can make big plays but can also get OCs fired.
Actually, Rodgers often holds on to the ball too long because he's trying to wait to see if a big play develops, not because he's risk averse. It's very clear which approach works best. As a Packers fan, I really cannot get too frustrated when the best QB in the league chooses to hold the ball for a second longer to see if routes open up rather than forcing a throw that isn't there. He still certainly makes more big plays than Cutler.
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In 6 1/2 seasons as an NFL starter, Jay Cutler has won one playoff game.
He's also 1-7 against the Packers.
He also choked like a dog down the stretch in his last season with the Broncos (2008), turning an almost certain playoff berth into dust.
Obviously, he should be nicknamed "Mr. Big Game."
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Rodgers doesn't take a lot of risks. That's part of the reason why GB allowed 50+ sacks last season. For better or worse, Cutler is more likely to force something and try to make a play, while Rodgers is more likely to take a sack and move on. As a fan, both approaches can be equally frustrating. Obviously there are times when Cutler needs to eat the ball (but, IMO, he's too confident/stubborn) and there are times Rodgers needs to get rid of the ball (but, IMO, he likes his stats too much).
Rodgers' approach limits TOs but also misses some opportunities. Cutler's approach can make big plays but can also get OCs fired.
I have closely watched both approaches, Favre and Rodgers. The risk taking approach is by far more frustrating. The most decisive stat is turnovers. I would much rather have the QB take a sack versus throw a pick. You can’t argue with the team’s success with Rodgers approach. Ask Viking fans if they would rather have Favre take a chance on that intercepted pass in the Championship game or just take a knee.
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I have closely watched both approaches, Favre and Rodgers. The risk taking approach is by far more frustrating. The most decisive stat is turnovers. I would much rather have the QB take a sack versus throw a pick. You can’t argue with the team’s success with Rodgers approach. Ask Viking fans if they would rather have Favre take a chance on that intercepted pass in the Championship game or just take a knee.
Exactly! Sacks still allow you to punt the ball if you have to... and if its not 3rd down, you still have a (small) chance to make those yards back. Rodgers is also a far better runner than Favre, so if he can dodge or get away from that sack and keep the play alive he can be deadly with his feet or his arm.
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Actually, Rodgers often holds on to the ball too long because he's trying to wait to see if a big play develops, not because he's risk averse. It's very clear which approach works best. As a Packers fan, I really cannot get too frustrated when the best QB in the league chooses to hold the ball for a second longer to see if routes open up rather than forcing a throw that isn't there. He still certainly makes more big plays than Cutler.
It's semantics. Holding the ball while waiting for a big play to develop really isn't all that different than being risk averse. If the big play hasn't developed, he's not trying to force something in there, instead he's potentially taking a sack. Obviously, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Just an observation.
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Yeah, but if your quarterback is getting sacked 50+ times a year, odds are, he might not bounce back up eventually. QBs are very fragile, unless it's Big Ben. So which is better, throwing INTs or possibly having your QB take one hit too many and get injured? Both carry risk. I prefer the health of the player. Some of the hits they take are bone crushing, especially after they release. So I would rather not have him take anymore punishment than he has to. I love Jay. I'm happy he's our QB and I hope they resign him.
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Yeah, but if your quarterback is getting sacked 50+ times a year, odds are, he might not bounce back up eventually. QBs are very fragile, unless it's Big Ben. So which is better, throwing INTs or possibly having your QB take one hit too many and get injured? Both carry risk. I prefer the health of the player. Some of the hits they take are bone crushing, especially after they release. So I would rather not have him take anymore punishment than he has to. I love Jay. I'm happy he's our QB and I hope they resign him.
I am happy he is the Bears QB too!
BTW who has been injured more and missed more games the last 2 or 3 seasons, Rodgers or Cutler?
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In 6 1/2 seasons as an NFL starter, Jay Cutler has won one playoff game.
He's also 1-7 against the Packers.
He also choked like a dog down the stretch in his last season with the Broncos (2008), turning an almost certain playoff berth into dust.
Obviously, he should be nicknamed "Mr. Big Game."
What does your post have to do with anything?
You realize the Broncos' D gave up 37 ppg during their 2008 collapse, right? Sure, Cutler wasn't great but he didn't exactly "choke like a dog"...or even like Rodgers in the last 2 playoffs ;)
Also, if the Giants' punter kicks the ball out of bounds against Philly in 2010, there's a 50/50 chance that Rodgers is sitting one playoff win as well...with that win being against a team playing a WR at QB.
What does my post have to do with anything? Nothing, but it'll be fun to watch people get all riled up.
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It's semantics. Holding the ball while waiting for a big play to develop really isn't all that different than being risk averse. If the big play hasn't developed, he's not trying to force something in there, instead he's potentially taking a sack. Obviously, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Just an observation.
I don't think its semantics, but we can agree to disagree. I think if Rodgers was really risk adverse, you'd see him throw to more checkdowns rather than hanging in there looking downfield. I much prefer Rodgers style to that of Cutler (or Favre--who had somewhat of a similar style although much better at it) as winning the turnover battle is absolutely huge in the NFL. If you think that is risk averse, so be it, but trying to force something to possibly make a play can be really stupid, especially when it still doesn't result in as many big plays. The big thing, obviously, is that it doesn't matter what style a QB has if he isn't playing and, up to this point, Rodgers has also shown to be better at that than Cutler, despite the fact that you believe Rodgers has a penchant for taking sacks.
For better or worse, Cutler is more likely to force something and try to make a play, while Rodgers is more likely to take a sack and move on.
FIFY :)
As a fan, both approaches can be equally frustrating.
I think there are a lot more Bears fan frustrated with Cutler than Packers fans with Rodgers.
This is an interesting discussion, though. Definitely more than one way to skin a cat as a QB, especially considering the recent successes of the read-option or "athletic" quarterbacks, which isn't even part of this discussion.
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I would rather my QB take a sack than throw an interception. Throwing the ball away is another option.
Field position is huge, especially if you have a good defense.
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I have closely watched both approaches, Favre and Rodgers. The risk taking approach is by far more frustrating. The most decisive stat is turnovers. I would much rather have the QB take a sack versus throw a pick. You can’t argue with the team’s success with Rodgers approach. Ask Viking fans if they would rather have Favre take a chance on that intercepted pass in the Championship game or just take a knee.
The knife cuts both ways with Favre. You hated the INTs he threw because a lot of them were ego-driven. But, it's his ego that made him so tough and allowed him to make so many great plays.
No joke, Favre might be the toughest SOB to ever play the game... and it's his large ego (and drugs) that enabled him to do that.
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What does your post have to do with anything?
You realize the Broncos' D gave up 37 ppg during their 2008 collapse, right? Sure, Cutler wasn't great but he didn't exactly "choke like a dog"...or even like Rodgers in the last 2 playoffs ;)
Also, if the Giants' punter kicks the ball out of bounds against Philly in 2010, there's a 50/50 chance that Rodgers is sitting one playoff win as well...with that win being against a team playing a WR at QB.
What does my post have to do with anything? Nothing, but it'll be fun to watch people get all riled up.
It's funny because that's all hypothetical. The fact of the matter is the Giants didn't kick the ball out of bounds, Rodgers did win the Super Bowl, and Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL. Cutler is, at best, an average quarterback who has the talent to be a very good quarterback but doesn't have the right mindset to reach his potential.
Anybody who would rather have a quarterback who throws more interceptions but takes less sacks than one who takes more sacks but throws less interceptions knows nothing about football.
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The knife cuts both ways with Favre. You hated the INTs he threw because a lot of them were ego-driven. But, it's his ego that made him so tough and allowed him to make so many great plays.
No joke, Favre might be the toughest SOB to ever play the game... and it's his large ego (and drugs) that enabled him to do that.
All very true
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It's funny because that's all hypothetical. The fact of the matter is the Giants didn't kick the ball out of bounds, Rodgers did win the Super Bowl, and Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL. Cutler is, at best, an average quarterback who has the talent to be a very good quarterback but doesn't have the right mindset to reach his potential.
Anybody who would rather have a quarterback who throws more interceptions but takes less sacks than one who takes more sacks but throws less interceptions knows nothing about football.
First bold: Not a fact.
Second bold: When did anyone say that?
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I think there are a lot more Bears fan frustrated with Cutler than Packers fans with Rodgers.
This is an interesting discussion, though. Definitely more than one way to skin a cat as a QB, especially considering the recent successes of the read-option or "athletic" quarterbacks, which isn't even part of this discussion.
I agree completely. Cutler can be an incredibly frustrating QB to watch. As a fan it's tough because as soon as Cutler put on a Bears' uniform, he became the best QB ever to wear a Bears' uniform (same goes for Marshall at WR), which can lead to unrealistic expectations. Cutler is one of the most talented QBs in the NFL but he has had bad OCs, a bad receiving corp and a bad o-line. At the same time, he hasn't really done a whole lot to help any of those situations.
I would rather my QB take a sack than throw an interception. Throwing the ball away is another option.
Anyone would rather have a sack than an INT.
Cutler doesn't like to throw the ball away because of his ego (trying to make a play - leads to INTs) and Rodgers doesn't like to throw the ball away because of his ego (likes his stats - leads to sacks).
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First bold: Not a fact.
Second bold: When did anyone say that?
Of course it's not a fact, it's an opinion. There's no way to prove someone is the best quarterback as a fact. But look at the statistics and results and it's pretty clear. I haven't seen one "expert" list anyone other than Rodgers as the best quarterback going into 2013. I'm sure they're out there, but the majority say Rodgers. That's not to say Rodgers's career or at his peek are better than Brady or Manning and their career or peek. But going into 2013 Rodgers is the best quarterback in the NFL.
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Of course it's not a fact, it's an opinion. There's no way to prove someone is the best quarterback as a fact. But look at the statistics and results and it's pretty clear. I haven't seen one "expert" list anyone other than Rodgers as the best quarterback going into 2013. I'm sure they're out there, but the majority say Rodgers. That's not to say Rodgers's career or at his peek are better than Brady or Manning and their career or peek. But going into 2013 Rodgers is the best quarterback in the NFL.
You said it was a fact.
Also...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1724598-doug-pederson-believes-alex-smith-is-nfls-best-qb (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1724598-doug-pederson-believes-alex-smith-is-nfls-best-qb)
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apologies to Jaybee - I guess Longwell got the brainwashing thing in GB too ;D
Longwell says it's great to be a Packer again
"It's great to be back and be a Green Bay Packer again," Longwell said.
Longwell said that he never had hard feelings after the Packers all but let him walk in free agency after the 2005 season and went to Minnesota because it was the next phase of his career.
"I'm proud of what I accomplished here," he said. "I felt I had a great run in Minnesota. I was blessed to live the Packers experience for nine years. This my first team and Sara (his wife) and I grew up here. We were so blessed to see this whole operation from the other side, the other sideline, the other locker room, from across the border. We saw how special this place was."
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/219421581.html
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Yeah, he's a packer again..
The guy got cut from the Vikings a year ago and hasn't played since and never will. Grean bay gave the guy an opportunity to do something cute / as a tribute. Of course he's thankful for that.
But he was still in a Vikings jersey when he went down south to get our QB, the Silver Fox, up to Minnesota.
Longwell is just being a classy guy.
Greem bay has their kicker - mason crosby. lol
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The knife cuts both ways with Favre. You hated the INTs he threw because a lot of them were ego-driven. But, it's his ego that made him so tough and allowed him to make so many great plays.
No joke, Favre might be the toughest SOB to ever play the game... and it's his large ego (and drugs) that enabled him to do that.
Sure it cuts both ways with Favre but, throwing a pick is more frustrating for the fan and damaging to the team than taking a sack. I hated his interceptions because they hurt the team, not because they were ego driven. Favre definitely had an ego as do most professional athletes, but he also had an incredible will to win and was ultra-competitive. That was probably more significant in the reason he played the way he did. There was more to it than just ego. If a large ego makes a great QB then why isn’t Ryan Leaf or Jeff George in the hall of fame?
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You said it was a fact.
Also...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1724598-doug-pederson-believes-alex-smith-is-nfls-best-qb (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1724598-doug-pederson-believes-alex-smith-is-nfls-best-qb)
You're right, didn't mean to word it that way. Shouldn't have lumped that in with the Giants keeping the ball in bounds and the Packers winning the Super Bowl Rodgers being the best is an opinion and Rodgers having only 1 Playoff win if not for...is a hypothetical.
Yeah, he's a packer again..
The guy got cut from the Vikings a year ago and hasn't played since and never will. Grean bay gave the guy an opportunity to do something cute / as a tribute. Of course he's thankful for that.
But he was still in a Vikings jersey when he went down south to get our QB, the Silver Fox, up to Minnesota.
Longwell is just being a classy guy.
Greem bay has their kicker - mason crosby. lol
Vikings fans trying to rip on the Packers is hilarious. At least when it's a Bears fan their team has actually won something at some point and are consistently competitive. Vikings fans are a joke. There is nothing they can say. Falling back on ripping on a kicker? Haha cute.
But hey, I'll give the Vikings credit, I wish the Brewers would take an approach like they have. Take all the washed up old players from the Cardinals that they no longer want and you can actually make a team of professionals who can compete to make the Playoffs despite being washed up, like the Vikings have done to former Packer players. The Vikings now have their star side receiver they've missed since Moss left! He was the FOURTH best receiver for the Packers last year! Yay!
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Sure it cuts both ways with Favre but, throwing a pick is more frustrating for the fan and damaging to the team than taking a sack. I hated his interceptions because they hurt the team, not because they were ego driven. Favre definitely had an ego as do most professional athletes, but he also had an incredible will to win and was ultra-competitive. That was probably more significant in the reason he played the way he did. There was more to it than just ego. If a large ego makes a great QB then why isn’t Ryan Leaf or Jeff George in the hall of fame?
Well, I think this is a semantics issue. I'm using "ego" as all encompassing (competitive, drive, leadership, prima donna, etc.)
As far as interceptions vs sack, you are 100% correct... but part of made #4 great was his ability to take a chance and make a great play. If he just "takes the sack" in those situations, he makes less mistakes, but also less great plays.
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Well, I think this is a semantics issue. I'm using "ego" as all encompassing (competitive, drive, leadership, prima donna, etc.)
As far as interceptions vs sack, you are 100% correct... but part of made #4 great was his ability to take a chance and make a great play. If he just "takes the sack" in those situations, he makes less mistakes, but also less great plays.
Correct, he takes the sack he makes less great plays, absolutely, however you are talking about one of the greatest QBs of all time. He was great because he was able to make the great plays and because he took the chance. You can’t extrapolate that to the average QB and say if QB Joe Blow takes more chances he will make more great plays, not necessarily true.
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In 6 1/2 seasons as an NFL starter, Jay Cutler has won one playoff game.
He's also 1-7 against the Packers.
He also choked like a dog down the stretch in his last season with the Broncos (2008), turning an almost certain playoff berth into dust.
Obviously, he should be nicknamed "Mr. Big Game."
Was he peeing while he choked?
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Correct, he takes the sack he makes less great plays, absolutely, however you are talking about one of the greatest QBs of all time. He was great because he was able to make the great plays and because he took the chance. You can’t extrapolate that to the average QB and say if QB Joe Blow takes more chances he will make more great plays, not necessarily true.
Right, I agree with you 100%.
That's why I said WITH FAVRE, the knife cuts both ways. He throws too many picks because he takes too many chances... but because he takes chances (and is amazing at football), he made a lot of plays.
He made a boneheaded play against NEO, but without his willingness to take chances throughout the year, that team would never have been that good.
I'm not extrapolating this style of play to any other QB. Favre, and Favre only.
I'll leave Cutler vs A-Rog up to the other football fans.
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Right, I agree with you 100%.
That's why I said WITH FAVRE, the knife cuts both ways. He throws too many picks because he takes too many chances... but because he takes chances (and is amazing at football), he made a lot of plays.
He made a boneheaded play against NEO, but without his willingness to take chances throughout the year, that team would never have been that good.
I'm not extrapolating this style of play to any other QB. Favre, and Favre only.
I'll leave Cutler vs A-Rog up to the other football fans.
That isn't really a debate.
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Right, I agree with you 100%.
That's why I said WITH FAVRE, the knife cuts both ways. He throws too many picks because he takes too many chances... but because he takes chances (and is amazing at football), he made a lot of plays.
He made a boneheaded play against NEO, but without his willingness to take chances throughout the year, that team would never have been that good.
I'm not extrapolating this style of play to any other QB. Favre, and Favre only.
I'll leave Cutler vs A-Rog up to the other football fans.
ok, I only made the distinction because someone had compared different styles of QB play in an earlier post.
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ok, I only made the distinction because someone had compared different styles of QB play in an earlier post.
yep, and that person wasn't me.
;D
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Rodgers doesn't like to throw the ball away because of his ego (likes his stats - leads to sacks).
I disagree with this wholeheartedly. Rodgers throws the ball away when he is in a position to do so (on the edge, when the rush isn't in his face, can throw to somebody's feet). But there are times when he can't (still in the pocket, rush is to him and he can't follow through without risk of a turnover, no available option to throw it away).
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To further my argument, take a look at the advanced stats from last season through 11/22 (you have to be a member to access the whole season) according to the linked article.
Rodgers throws the ball away quite often under pressure, 12.5% of the time (8th most out of 34 rated). For comparison, Culter throws it away only 3.8% of the time (32/34). I think that directly contradicts your statement that "Rodgers doesn't like to throw the ball away because of his ego (likes his stats - leads to sacks)."
Of course, this is only for part of 1 season, but based on what I've seen from Rodgers over the years, the stats agree with my eyes. I wish I had access to these stats from different/whole season, but I guess I'm too cheap to shell out $27 for premium package.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/22/sig-stats-snapshot-passing-under-pressure/ (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/22/sig-stats-snapshot-passing-under-pressure/)
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To further my argument, take a look at the advanced stats from last season through 11/22 (you have to be a member to access the whole season) according to the linked article.
Rodgers throws the ball away quite often under pressure, 12.5% of the time (8th most out of 34 rated). For comparison, Culter throws it away only 3.8% of the time (32/34). I think that directly contradicts your statement that "Rodgers doesn't like to throw the ball away because of his ego (likes his stats - leads to sacks)."
Of course, this is only for part of 1 season, but based on what I've seen from Rodgers over the years, the stats agree with my eyes. I wish I had access to these stats from different/whole season, but I guess I'm too cheap to shell out $27 for premium package.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/22/sig-stats-snapshot-passing-under-pressure/ (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/22/sig-stats-snapshot-passing-under-pressure/)
Interesting stats.
While Rodgers is 8th in throwaway percentage, he's also 2nd in sack percentage meaning he has more opportunities to throw the ball, but doesn't (obviously not saying he should throw it away every time he's pressured but there are times when he eats it as opposed to chucking it out of bounds).
Both those percentages lead me to believe that he doesn't throw the ball away as much as he could, but does throw the ball away more than I had given him credit for.
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Rodgers has accomplished a thing or two in his NFL career.
The only things Cutler has accomplished: Earning a lot of money and getting coaches fired. Sure he's got talent. He's the biggest "tease" in many a year.
BTW, I am neither a Packers fan nor a Bears fan. Completely agnostic on the NFC North. I just appreciate good QB play ... and know when I don't see it!
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LOL! Ponder and his dead arm are a complete joke. The BILLS "exotic" defense confused him? You're a starting NFL QB and you can't figure out gimmick defenses? Haha. Hilarious.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000231041/article/christian-ponder-bills-exotic-defense-confused-vikes
Anyhow, on to the adult league. Call Eddie Lacey fat all you want, but he is a GROWN ASS MAN! Second round pick? Oops, thank you! Man, our offense is going to be as good as I've ever seen it, and that is SCARY!
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LOL! Ponder and his dead arm are a complete joke. The BILLS "exotic" defense confused him? You're a starting NFL QB and you can't figure out gimmick defenses? Haha. Hilarious.
Your point is well taken and honestly I couldn't care less about the preseason
The sooner Cassel gets in there, the better. SKOL VIKINGS
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The sooner Cassel gets in there, the better. SKOL VIKINGS
No kidding, and that's sad. Cassel sucks ass too. And who's he going to throw the ball to? Oh yeah, the best wide receiver since Randy Moss for the Vikings, Greg Jennings! Wait a minute, you mean the same guy who was the 4th best receiver on the Packers last year and left because he'd never see the ball this year? Weird. Poor Adrian Peterson. If he didn't eat HGH gummies like cops eat jelly doughnuts he'd be hurting with all the touches he'll need to keep the Vikings afloat.
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Lacy does look tubby. Goes to show the Pack have a weak S&C program....ain't supplying him the roids like Alabama did.
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LOL! Ponder and his dead arm are a complete joke. The BILLS "exotic" defense confused him? You're a starting NFL QB and you can't figure out gimmick defenses? Haha. Hilarious.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000231041/article/christian-ponder-bills-exotic-defense-confused-vikes
Anyhow, on to the adult league. Call Eddie Lacey fat all you want, but he is a GROWN ASS MAN! Second round pick? Oops, thank you! Man, our offense is going to be as good as I've ever seen it, and that is SCARY!
Adding Lacy didn't add to your running attack. Sure, he'll maybe get ten touches a game, but Alabama running backs almost never match their college potential. I think Lacy is more of a product of the Alabama O-Line if anything. But having one of the best offensive lines in college, it made him look a lot better than he really is. Similar to the Hogs of the Washington Redskins. During Super Bowl XXII, one Timmy Smith set the record for most rushing yards in the big game, finishing with 204 yards; one than one third of his NFL career rush yards came from that game. He was a no-name player but his name is now in the history books. I'm not saying Lacy will disappear or be an unknown; I just think you guys have your expectations set a little bit too high for him. He's a product of the Alabama O-line.
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Adding Lacy didn't add to your running attack. Sure, he'll maybe get ten touches a game, but Alabama running backs almost never match their college potential. I think Lacy is more of a product of the Alabama O-Line if anything. But having one of the best offensive lines in college, it made him look a lot better than he really is. Similar to the Hogs of the Washington Redskins. During Super Bowl XXII, one Timmy Smith set the record for most rushing yards in the big game, finishing with 204 yards; one than one third of his NFL career rush yards came from that game. He was a no-name player but his name is now in the history books. I'm not saying Lacy will disappear or be an unknown; I just think you guys have your expectations set a little bit too high for him. He's a product of the Alabama O-line.
Don't watch the highlights of him running over 6 defenders in 1 play and 3-4 in 2 other plays last night then. 8 rushes for 40 yards, and I'm guessing 35 of those came after first contact.
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The Wilfs strike me as a little smarmy.
Further proof.
Superior Court Judge Deanne Wilson delivered sharp words for Zygi Wilf, saying his testimony exhibited “bad faith and evil motive.”
http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/220067381.html
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but Alabama running backs almost never match their college potential. He's a product of the Alabama O-line.
Trent Richardson disagrees with you.
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Don't watch the highlights of him running over 6 defenders in 1 play and 3-4 in 2 other plays last night then. 8 rushes for 40 yards, and I'm guessing 35 of those came after first contact.
Lot of running backs look good in the preseason so we will see. He did look impressive though and could be the steal of the draft. You can see the impact he had on the passing game. Play action was wide open.
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Steal of the draft is going to be the honey badger.
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Steal of the draft is going to be the honey badger.
Could be if he keeps his head on straight.
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Steal of the draft is going to be the honey badger.
I'm not saying he won't have a possibility of success.
But he is far more likely to end up spending his life behind bars. I'm afraid that he is an example of a person who will never see personal success, because they are too busy trying to destroy themselves.
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Adding Lacy didn't add to your running attack. Sure, he'll maybe get ten touches a game, but Alabama running backs almost never match their college potential. I think Lacy is more of a product of the Alabama O-Line if anything. But having one of the best offensive lines in college, it made him look a lot better than he really is. Similar to the Hogs of the Washington Redskins. During Super Bowl XXII, one Timmy Smith set the record for most rushing yards in the big game, finishing with 204 yards; one than one third of his NFL career rush yards came from that game. He was a no-name player but his name is now in the history books. I'm not saying Lacy will disappear or be an unknown; I just think you guys have your expectations set a little bit too high for him. He's a product of the Alabama O-line.
Watch the games and not the stat sheets.
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I know it's preseason, but man are the Raiders bad.
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Vince young ftw!
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Trent Richardson disagrees with you.
That's why I said "almost". Learn how to read, mate.
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I was worried that the Packers would be holding on to Harrell simply because he had been around longer. I was pleasantly surprised last night.
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9602419/nfl-suspends-minnesota-vikings-pro-bowl-fb-jerome-felton
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FWIW's, here's my NFL preview.
There's no awful team in the NFC, it's the deepest conference I've ever seen. If Freeman is good, the Bucs can legit win the South. Rams defense is going to be real good. I think Arians turns the Cards into contenders. If Philly had any kind of defense (and they don't), they'd be a trendy pick to win the East (which 9-7 can probably win this year).
As for Bears/Pack/North...I really have no idea what the Bears are going to be this year. They could as easily be 6-10 as they could be 10-6. My gut feeling is they'll be better as the season progresses. The one game they gameplanned against the Raiders (albeit worst team in the NFL), I saw offensive schemes that finally utilized proper personnel, which is very un-Bears like. Kyle Long will have growing pains at times picking up blitzes/stunts, but looks like he is going to be an elite NFL player. This team is going to fail/succeed based on Cutler. I know that's oversimplyfing it, but absolutely true.
I think the Pack schedule benefits them greatly. Arguably their two toughest games come in the first 3 weeks, then they get a bye. I think this will give them time to regroup their o-line, get Lacy comfortable both running and pass protecting. I actually think the Pack will throw the ball more than people think this season (even with Lacy). Pack's defense will determine how far they go.
Lions secondary is still a nightmare, they can not make the playoffs with that secondary. I think the Vikes are better, but I can't get past Ponder leading this team to back to back playoff appearances. If AP can literally carry this team again, that would be remarkable.
Playoff teams: Pack, Seahawks, Falcons, Giants, Bucs, Niners
AFC is as weak as it's been in a long time.
Playoff teams: Broncos, Pats, Texans, Bengals, Chiefs, Dolphins
If you want to know why I have the Dolphins and Chiefs in, it's because the Chiefs will have 4 games with Raiders/Chargers (one is awful, one is real bad) and the Dolphins have 4 games with the Jets/Bills (awful/real bad). I even think the Broncos/Pats regress some, and if the Texans were in the NFC, I'd have them missing the playoffs. If the Browns were in the AFC West or AFC East, I'd give them an outside chance of a wildcard.
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FWIW's, here's my NFL preview.
There's no awful team in the NFC, it's the deepest conference I've ever seen. If Freeman is good, the Bucs can legit win the South. Rams defense is going to be real good. I think Arians turns the Cards into contenders. If Philly had any kind of defense (and they don't), they'd be a trendy pick to win the East (which 9-7 can probably win this year).
As for Bears/Pack/North...I really have no idea what the Bears are going to be this year. They could as easily be 6-10 as they could be 10-6. My gut feeling is they'll be better as the season progresses. The one game they gameplanned against the Raiders (albeit worst team in the NFL), I saw offensive schemes that finally utilized proper personnel, which is very un-Bears like. Kyle Long will have growing pains at times picking up blitzes/stunts, but looks like he is going to be an elite NFL player. This team is going to fail/succeed based on Cutler. I know that's oversimplyfing it, but absolutely true.
I think the Pack schedule benefits them greatly. Arguably their two toughest games come in the first 3 weeks, then they get a bye. I think this will give them time to regroup their o-line, get Lacy comfortable both running and pass protecting. I actually think the Pack will throw the ball more than people think this season (even with Lacy). Pack's defense will determine how far they go.
Lions secondary is still a nightmare, they can not make the playoffs with that secondary. I think the Vikes are better, but I can't get past Ponder leading this team to back to back playoff appearances. If AP can literally carry this team again, that would be remarkable.
Playoff teams: Pack, Seahawks, Falcons, Giants, Bucs, Niners
AFC is as weak as it's been in a long time.
Playoff teams: Broncos, Pats, Texans, Bengals, Chiefs, Dolphins
If you want to know why I have the Dolphins and Chiefs in, it's because the Chiefs will have 4 games with Raiders/Chargers (one is awful, one is real bad) and the Dolphins have 4 games with the Jets/Bills (awful/real bad). I even think the Broncos/Pats regress some, and if the Texans were in the NFC, I'd have them missing the playoffs. If the Browns were in the AFC West or AFC East, I'd give them an outside chance of a wildcard.
Good as always dish. Any chance you want to write a fantasy preview? I'd be grateful. My draft is on Wednesday...
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Pack fans, Something or Nothing:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp13/story/_/id/9605434/dujuan-harris-green-bay-packers-going-injured-reserve-knee-injury
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I am a little more Bullish on the Bears. They have little margin for error, but they look pretty well rounded to me. I think they are going to be pretty good. The Packers will score points, but I don't know that they have found a way to stop anyone. Not hot on the Vikings, but I think the Lions could be pretty good as well.
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Packers without Harris all year - team can't buy a break on #1 RB. Perhaps Lacy can carry the load but a lot to ask of a rookie. Agree on defense - still same issues as last 2 years.....
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Dish hit the nail on the head in regards to the Lions secondary. It has been a Superfund site for years. To be a Lion's DB is like being a Spinal Tap drummer. Every year, by week 10, they are pulling guys in off of the street on Tuesday and starting them on Sunday. This year, there are decent parts back there, but a lot of them are china dolls. So, if Detroit's secondary stays relatively healthy (assuming health everywhere else, too), Detroit contends for a playoff berth. If the curse of the Lion's DB continues, 7-9.
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Why keep Young for this long if you're just going to cut him on the last day? Practice squad?
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Why keep Young for this long if you're just going to cut him on the last day? Practice squad?
He can't be on the practice squad. Been around too long.
I think they were hoping that he would show something more the last week...both in practice and in the KC game. They should have signed him a few months ago and given him a better chance.
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He can't be on the practice squad. Been around too long.
I think they were hoping that he would show something more the last week...both in practice and in the KC game. They should have signed him a few months ago and given him a better chance.
TT said the same in the JS today. He took the blame.
Can they keep him around in an unofficial capacity to work with him? Not sure if they even see enough to make that commitment
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So the Packers send VY packing, and cut BJ Coleman... only to sign Seneca Wallace?
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
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Ballsy picks to say Dolphins and Chiefs in playoffs.
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So the Packers send VY packing, and cut BJ Coleman... only to sign Seneca Wallace?
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
Speaking of backup QBs from Green Bay.
How long before Flynn gets cut/waived? Couldn't beat out Russell Wilson last year, and this year is going to backup Terrell Pryor.
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Speaking of backup QBs from Green Bay.
How long before Flynn gets cut/waived? Couldn't beat out Russell Wilson last year, and this year is going to backup Terrell Pryor.
Good possibility he'll be cut next year. Guaranteed $6.5M in Oakland this year though, so he won't be going anywhere. But, if he gets a chance to play this year, and actually performs (tough duty. the Raiders are pathetic), you never know what might happen.
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Speaking of backup QBs from Green Bay.
How long before Flynn gets cut/waived? Couldn't beat out Russell Wilson last year, and this year is going to backup Terrell Pryor.
No player in the last 10 years has made more out of a single game than Matt Flynn.
I can't wait to see Pryor do the same crap he did at OSU, aka see his initial read isn't there and take off running, and get his clock cleaned by a few LBs. He literally hasn't meaningfully improved since his freshman year of college, he's just a physical freak.
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No player in the last 10 years has made more out of a single game than Matt Flynn.
and even more so since he's only played a single game in what now, a 5 (or 6?) year career?
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NFL related ... there should be some really good games to watch tonight and this weekend. Just looking through my confidence pool, these are some really tough games to pick:
Minnesota @ Detroit
Green Bay @ SF
Philadelphia @ Washington
NY Giants @ Dallas
Baltimore @ Denver
Even the bad teams will be battling each other.
KC @ Jacksonville
Miami @ Cleveland
Tampa @ NY Jets
I could go either way on all those games! Is excited. :o
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KC. Jax will win maybe 2 games this year, unless Mojo goes bananas.
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NFL related ... there should be some really good games to watch tonight and this weekend. Just looking through my confidence pool, these are some really tough games to pick:
Minnesota @ Detroit
Green Bay @ SF
Philadelphia @ Washington
NY Giants @ Dallas
Baltimore @ Denver
Even the bad teams will be battling each other.
KC @ Jacksonville
Miami @ Cleveland
Tampa @ NY Jets
I could go either way on all those games! Is excited. :o
KC will be a .500 team. Mark it down!
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I mentioned this in my mini NFL preview, but I'd all but guarantee the Chiefs are a playoff team. It's all just for fun, but Bovada has their total at 7 1/2 (-155). For fun's sake, I pounded the over.
It's not out of the realm of possibility that they win the AFC West either. Just look at the Chiefs schedule, it might be the easiest schedule I've ever seen.
@ Jags, Pokes, @ Eagles, Giants, @ Titans, Raiders, Texans, Browns, @ Bills, Bye, @ Broncos, Chargers, Broncos, @ Skins, @ Raiders, Colts, @ Chargers
Their toughest road game, at Denver, comes after their bye week. They get the Texans and Colts both at home. That sked is ridiculous.
They're better than their awful record last year. They should be better coached and better at QB. This is at least an 8 win team.
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and even more so since he's only played a single game in what now, a 5 (or 6?) year career?
Not to pick nits, but Flynn started two games for the Packers. Against New England in 2010 when Rodgers was injured, and then the last regular game of the 2011 season (played in January of 2012) when he lit up the Lions.
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I mentioned this in my mini NFL preview, but I'd all but guarantee the Chiefs are a playoff team. It's all just for fun, but Bovada has their total at 7 1/2 (-155). For fun's sake, I pounded the over.
It's not out of the realm of possibility that they win the AFC West either. Just look at the Chiefs schedule, it might be the easiest schedule I've ever seen.
@ Jags, Pokes, @ Eagles, Giants, @ Titans, Raiders, Texans, Browns, @ Bills, Bye, @ Broncos, Chargers, Broncos, @ Skins, @ Raiders, Colts, @ Chargers
Their toughest road game, at Denver, comes after their bye week. They get the Texans and Colts both at home. That sked is ridiculous.
They're better than their awful record last year. They should be better coached and better at QB. This is at least an 8 win team.
I agree KC may be a surprise team, but remember last year you said strength of schedule didn't matter, they have to play the games you never bought that weak schedule stuff, remember?
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Context my friend, context.
You play who you play. In regards to what I said about the Chiefs, especially from a monetary standpoint, who you play matters.
In divisions, there's only two games that differ from the rest of the teams in that division. That was the heart of my Bears record (being what it was) argument. As it turned out, Pack fans were right, the Bears were not up to snuff in the end.
For the record, I took the Pack (-140) to win the North this year.
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Context my friend, context.
You play who you play. In regards to what I said about the Chiefs, especially from a monetary standpoint, who you play matters.
In divisions, there's only two games that differ from the rest of the teams in that division. That was the heart of my Bears record (being what it was) argument. As it turned out, Pack fans were right, the Bears were not up to snuff in the end.
For the record, I took the Pack (-140) to win the North this year.
I'm just giving you crap. I happen to agree with you. Also about the dolphins I think they are on the ascend and will be in a weak AFC playoff field. So glad football is back.
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How did Harbaugh not challenge that?
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That lack of challenge totally changed the dynamic of this game. Can't believe it wasn't challenged.
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Holy crap the Denver offense looks good. Manning, D. Thomas, Welker, Decker, Moreno/Hillman/Ball and now they have a good TE? Jeez. Good luck to defenses.
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SKOL VIKINGS!
The Consensus.
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SKOL VIKINGS!
The Consensus.
Hell of an opening play.
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I wonder if there has ever been an opening day with three safety's. My guess is no.
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Looks like AP juiced more this offseason than last off-season
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All that talk by Greg Jennings in the offseason was cute. Hope he's enjoying his time with Christian Ponder as his quarterback now. (I literally cannot even say "Christian Ponder" and "quarterback" without chuckling to myself.)
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Looks like AP juiced more this offseason than last off-season
Not watching this game live, but the box score for AP is quite intriguing.
8 carries for 70 yards. A long of 78. 2 TDs.
With that information, one has to assume the 2 TDs amounted for 79 yards.
Other 6 carries, -9 yards.
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Not watching this game live, but the box score for AP is quite intriguing.
8 carries for 70 yards. A long of 78. 2 TDs.
With that information, one has to assume the 2 TDs amounted for 79 yards.
Other 6 carries, -9 yards.
Weird, I haven't really watched the whole game, but the 78 yarder was a touchdown and then his other touchdown was a good 7 yards or so. Beyond that, the bits and pieces that I've seen of the Vikings offense is just Ponder throwing it to the wrong team. They haven't put the ball into Peterson's hands too often from what I've seen.
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Not watching this game live, but the box score for AP is quite intriguing.
8 carries for 70 yards. A long of 78. 2 TDs.
With that information, one has to assume the 2 TDs amounted for 79 yards.
Other 6 carries, -9 yards.
That's accurate.
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Is there a worse starting quarterback in the NFL than Christian Ponder? Seriously.
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Is there a worse starting quarterback in the NFL than Christian Ponder? Seriously.
Not much of a front line for him.
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Weird, I haven't really watched the whole game, but the 78 yarder was a touchdown and then his other touchdown was a good 7 yards or so. Beyond that, the bits and pieces that I've seen of the Vikings offense is just Ponder throwing it to the wrong team. They haven't put the ball into Peterson's hands too often from what I've seen.
They must be loading the box to stop AP. If they are committing that much effort to the run and Ponder still can't make completions, there is a serious problem.
They went out and signed GBs receiver, but kept an inept QB in the backfield. Brilliant.
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Is there a worse starting quarterback in the NFL than Christian Ponder? Seriously.
Gabbert? Weeden?
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My bad on the Bucs.
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Oh, hell yeah! Lions guaranteed at least 1-15 this year! Wahoo!
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My bad on the Bucs.
Watched whole game. TB had 13 penalties for 103 yards, including hit out of bounds with 7 seconds left, leading to winning field. Difference in the game.
TB has a great rushing defense, adequate pass defense and soon to have a QB decision if it continues.
Not a happy TB locker room right now, but happy Jets.
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So yeah, Jaguars suck.
But nice win for the Bears.
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Bad decision by McCarthy. Have to decline that penalty and force Niners hand.
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Looks like the 'roids are starting to get to Clay.
I didn't see exactly what Staley did, but doesn't Matthews automatically get tossed for throwing a punch?
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Looks like the 'roids are starting to get to Clay.
I didn't see exactly what Staley did, but doesn't Matthews automatically get tossed for throwing a punch?
The whole 49er team is on PEDs.
Their OT taunted him.
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Looks like the 'roids are starting to get to Clay.
I didn't see exactly what Staley did, but doesn't Matthews automatically get tossed for throwing a punch?
Live I thought it looked like a punch, when they showed the replays he is trying to push staley off of him who has his uniform/jersey around the collar.
GB making stupid mistakes in this one that is costing them.
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Bad decision by McCarthy. Have to decline that penalty and force Niners hand.
Agreed. Dear lord. Awful decision. Best case they're still getting a field goal. Worst they put up 4 extra points, which they did (but shouldn't have...refs screwed up big time there, but nobody on the Packers sideline caught it).
Packers played an awful first half offensively and are still tied. Very fortunate. Defense looks fairly solid. Hopefully it keeps up.
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The whole 49er team is on PEDs.
Their OT taunted him.
Don't forget the cheerleaders and the pubic relations department as well....all of them on PEDs
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Don't forget the cheerleaders and the pubic relations department as well....all of them on PEDs
Chicos, I realize that this was in jest.
But, would breast implants and plastic surfer be considered a PED or just the equivalent of weight lifting for the athletes?
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Hell of a game so far.
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Hell of a game so far.
It's been a good one, really thought the Pack were going to get beat soundly.
Not looking like a W, but happy with the results.
Clean up the penalties, looking at you Sitton, and they may be better than I thought.
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Hell of a game so far.
I was hoping for a little redemption with a hail mary at the end. Didn't work out. Agreed though great game.
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Chicos, I realize that this was in jest.
But, would breast implants and plastic surfer be considered a PED or just the equivalent of weight lifting for the athletes?
I assume you meant surgery and surfer?
I'd call breast implants performance enhancing....perhaps a drug for men, but not sure for the chicks. ;D
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Really didn't think Boldin had that much left in the tank. I was misinformed.
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Really didn't think Boldin had that much left in the tank. I was misinformed.
Can't believe Baltimore didn't want to pay him and keep him. Great hands.
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Really didn't think Boldin had that much left in the tank. I was misinformed.
I'd say Mr. K looked pretty good. A kid who had never thrown for 300 yards in a pro game throws for 400 yards is pretty impressive.
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Can't believe Baltimore didn't want to pay him and keep him. Great hands.
I wondered the other night if the Patriots were having the same resignations about Welker.
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I assume you meant surgery and surfer?
I'd call breast implants performance enhancing....perhaps a drug for men, but not sure for the chicks. ;D
Surgery, surfer, don't they mean the same thing?
Good call on it being a PED for men instead.
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I can't believe that bum on Denver Thursday night on the defense is going to cost me a win in both of my leagues. #(&#@
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Geez-us.
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So, who gets the harsher punishment from the NFL: Matthews or Suh?
Clay's action was worse but Suh's got quite a rap sheet built up. Should be interesting.
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So, who gets the harsher punishment from the NFL: Matthews or Suh?
Clay's action was worse but Suh's got quite a rap sheet built up. Should be interesting.
Both will get fined, neither will get suspended.
I would also not be surprised to see the Bears Maneri get fined for his hit on Burfict. (Even though it was legal.)
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Both will get fined, neither will get suspended.
I would also not be surprised to see the Bears Maneri get fined for his hit on Burfict. (Even though it was legal.)
I believe that was the recently-released Kyle Adams who hit Burfict (after the INT, I assume is what you're referring to). Either way, that would be a tough, unwarranted fine but I wouldn't be surprised to see it.
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Suh will get the larger fine, as a habitual offender. If you take the play completely out of context, take Suh's jersey out of it, then you see that the call on the field was correct and it would merit a small fine at best. Being Suh, with his history, the fine will be larger. He's a smart guy. He needs to learn to control that stuff. I would like to see the debate comparing Calvin Johnson's catch being called incomplete vs Victor Cruz's catch being ruled a touchdown.
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I believe that was the recently-released Kyle Adams who hit Burfict (after the INT, I assume is what you're referring to). Either way, that would be a tough, unwarranted fine but I wouldn't be surprised to see it.
Yea my bad. I thought it was Adams, but when I didn't see him on the depth chart I guessed Maneri. I agree unwarranted, but the NFL likes to show people up.
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Suh fined $100 grand by the league. Don't think Clay's late clothesline is going to top that.
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Suh fined $100 grand by the league. Don't think Clay's late clothesline is going to top that.
His punch/slap should
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His punch/slap should
the team should fine him $100K for his stupidity alone
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And then McCarthy should pay half for taking the 5 yarder that put them in that spot.
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His punch/slap should
I don't see why. Suh is a proven dirty player who has been fined by the league on multiple occasions. Matthews? Not even remotely close.
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His punch/slap should
I really don't see much there. Staley runs in grabs Mathews around the collar/pads. Matthews swings in a pushing motion to get him off. Staley continues to hold on to the pads and push him around, Matthews keeps on trying to push him off. Both are involved in a scuffle and should have been flagged. If you fine Matthews, you have to fine Staley. Nothing there amounts to a punch that would command a larger fine.
The most eggregious punch in the ordeal was by Boldin, who ran in from about 30 yards away, when pushed turned and threw a closed fisted punch at one of the D-backs of GB. Actually should have amounted to an ejection.
I wouldn't be suprised to see a fine though as the NFL seems committed to make it appear as if the mistake didn't hurt GB, but rather was coupled to a second blown call. They also came to the rescue last year in Seattle.
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His punch/slap should
In that case Boldin should be fined too...
(http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/049/832/packer-49ers_original.gif?1378677112)
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I really don't see much there. Staley runs in grabs Mathews around the collar/pads. Matthews swings in a pushing motion to get him off. Staley continues to hold on to the pads and push him around, Matthews keeps on trying to push him off. Both are involved in a scuffle and should have been flagged. If you fine Matthews, you have to fine Staley. Nothing there amounts to a punch that would command a larger fine.
The most eggregious punch in the ordeal was by Boldin, who ran in from about 30 yards away, when pushed turned and threw a closed fisted punch at one of the D-backs of GB. Actually should have amounted to an ejection.
I wouldn't be suprised to see a fine though as the NFL seems committed to make it appear as if the mistake didn't hurt GB, but rather was coupled to a second blown call. They also came to the rescue last year in Seattle.
In that case Boldin should be fined too...
A smack to the facemask is different than repeatedly punching/slapping someone under the facemask. Harbaugh's line about Matthews was hilarious.
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A smack to the facemask is different than repeatedly punching/slapping someone under the facemask. Harbaugh's line about Matthews was hilarious.
Really? Reapetedly under the facemask? How does one even do that?
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Really? Reapetedly under the facemask? How does one even do that?
Um...watch the play. He sticks his hand under Staley's facemask and hits him several times.
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In that case Boldin should be fined too...
(http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/049/832/packer-49ers_original.gif?1378677112)
Ok...? Fine them both. or suspend them both. I'm absolutely ok with that.
What's your point again?
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A smack to the facemask is different than repeatedly punching/slapping someone under the facemask. Harbaugh's line about Matthews was hilarious.
I don't see any slaps or punches under the facemask. He is just pushing him away, it really doesn't look fine-worthy to me.
(http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/049/834/packers-49ers2_original.gif?1378677143)
Ya, harbaughs line was hilarious considering harbaugh broke his hand and missed month after punching jim kelly, so I'm sure he would LOVE if the same thing happened to clay.
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I don't see any slaps or punches under the facemask. He is just pushing him away, it really doesn't look fine-worthy to me.
(http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/049/834/packers-49ers2_original.gif?1378677143)
Ya, harbaughs line was hilarious considering harbaugh broke his hand and missed month after punching jim kelly, so I'm sure he would LOVE if the same thing happened to clay.
That's not the whole clip. It sure looked like he was reaching under his facemask and slapping him later on. Could be wrong.
Don't worry, Clay will get his month-long/4-game sitdown eventually. He's going to get his masking agent out of sync at some point.
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That's not the whole clip. It sure looked like he was reaching under his facemask and slapping him later on. Could be wrong.
How could a guy even slap someone with his hand under his facemask? What are we talking, and inch and a half of clearance, maybe two?
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Don't worry, Clay will get his month-long/4-game sitdown eventually. He's going to get his masking agent out of sync at some point.
An NFL player using PEDs? Say it isn't so.
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This Pats/Jets game has been awful to watch. Quality of the NFL product early on has not been great.
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This Pats/Jets game has been awful to watch. Quality of the NFL product early on has not been great.
What a horrible matchup to have as your "first" TNF game. I get that it's the whole NY vs BOS thing, but let's face it - the Pats aren't the team they used to be and the Jets are, well, the Jets.
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This Pats/Jets game has been awful to watch. Quality of the NFL product early on has not been great.
Shortened off-season due to the restrictions in the last CBA is probably the main culprit. Although I wonder if the dearth of traditional "pro-set" quarterbacks coming out of college football is another.
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NFL needs to tweek the whole TNF product. Seems that 75% of the games are hot garbage. Teams playing in that game need to be coming off a bye, IMHO.
But the NFL won't do that because.
(http://i.imgflip.com/3ldvg.jpg)[/url]via Imgflip Meme Maker (http://imgflip.com/memegenerator)[/img]
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Shortened off-season due to the restrictions in the last CBA is probably the main culprit. Although I wonder if the dearth of traditional "pro-set" quarterbacks coming out of college football is another.
Or the fact that one team has no QB and the other is missing its top 5 or 6 receivers from last year. Right now, Brady may have the worst receiving group in the history of the NFL. When Julian Edelman is your #1 - you got big problems.
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Or the fact that one team has no QB and the other is missing its top 5 or 6 receivers from last year. Right now, Brady may have the worst receiving group in the history of the NFL. When Julian Edelman is your #1 - you got big problems.
Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. The 2008 Bears' receiving corps is not going to give up its title after just 2 games!
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Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. The 2008 Bears' receiving corps is not going to give up its title after just 2 games!
19 Devin Aromashodu
85 Earl Bennett
86 Marty Booker
81 Rashied Davis
23 Devin Hester PR
80 Brandon Lloyd
84 Brandon Rideau
I think the Pats WRs may be worse. But if Grossman would have gone off on them during a game like Brady did last night, they would have likely murdered him on the spot.
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19 Devin Aromashodu
85 Earl Bennett
86 Marty Booker
81 Rashied Davis
23 Devin Hester PR
80 Brandon Lloyd
84 Brandon Rideau
I think the Pats WRs may be worse. But if Grossman would have gone off on them during a game like Brady did last night, they would have likely murdered him on the spot.
The Pats' WR are pretty bad but the Bears two leading WR were both converted cornerbacks (Hester and Davis). That's tough to top (bottom?) over a 16-game season.
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A microcosm of the of that game last night was the all time worst special teams play (by both teams) that I've ever seen.
Pats punting from (trying to recall here) roughly their own 35 (?), Jets don't send anyone back (!) to return the punt, punt bounces at the Jets 20...with absolutely zero Jets back there...and the Pats down it at the Jets 22.
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A microcosm of the of that game last night was the all time worst special teams play (by both teams) that I've ever seen.
Pats punting from (trying to recall here) roughly their own 35 (?), Jets don't send anyone back (!) to return the punt, punt bounces at the Jets 20...with absolutely zero Jets back there...and the Pats down it at the Jets 22.
Loved that play ;D
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A microcosm of the of that game last night was the all time worst special teams play (by both teams) that I've ever seen.
Pats punting from (trying to recall here) roughly their own 35 (?), Jets don't send anyone back (!) to return the punt, punt bounces at the Jets 20...with absolutely zero Jets back there...and the Pats down it at the Jets 22.
Saw that. Incredible. I was wondering whether the Jets saw something that led them to believe it was a fake punt. But no, just incompetence, on both teams.
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Vick Ballard out for the year. If you need RB help on your fantasy team, go get Ahmad Bradshaw
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Saw that. Incredible. I was wondering whether the Jets saw something that led them to believe it was a fake punt. But no, just incompetence, on both teams.
Why did the Jets keep their coach anyway. He should of been fired with Tebow.
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I, too, would have a tough time choosing to stay and play with "12" when I have the opportunity to play for the great leader that is Christian Ponder. Enjoy that, Greg Jennings!
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I, too, would have a tough time choosing to stay and play with "12" when I have the opportunity to play for the great leader that is Christian Ponder. Enjoy that, Greg Jennings!
Revisionist history. He didn't "choose" not to stay - the Pack had no interest in re-signing him.
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Great job Fox, I love not watching an important 2 min drill. Lovely.
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Revisionist history. He didn't "choose" not to stay - the Pack had no interest in re-signing him.
No you are wrong. Packers offered him almost the same amount and more a year prior that he turned down
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Ya, harbaughs line was hilarious considering harbaugh broke his hand and missed month after punching jim kelly, so I'm sure he would LOVE if the same thing happened to clay.
I was talking to friend this weekend about Jimmy conveniently forgetting about breaking his hand.
Friend worked in Platteville when the Bears trained there. His job involved a lot of contact with Bears players and coaches. Story goes that, while in public, an elderly gent approached Humble Jimmy, asking to shake his hand. Jimmy offered his pinky.
Not a big deal, just the douchey touch that we are coming to expect of the Harbaughs. Wouldn't have bothered posting, but it is the offseason.
Just an aside, my friend's favorite Bears, Coach "Dicka" and Tom Thayer.
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Wow
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No you are wrong. Packers offered him almost the same amount and more a year prior that he turned down
I bolded the important part.
Jennings value was down after last season.
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I bolded the important part.
Jennings value was down after last season.
Right his value was down, but the packers offer was very close and competitive with the Vikings offer. Jennings chose the Vikings. I wouldn't say the packers had "no interest" as brandx asserted.
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Dish, not sure what moment you were referring to with "wow", as it applied to about 20 different plays good and bad. Nice comeback drive by Jay, and a win.
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Same old Lions. Linehan makes Stafford look more like Joey Harrington every game. 4th and 4, 1:10 to go, empty backfield, Joey, errrr, Stafford throws off his back foot while back-pedaling, hitting Burleson for a 2 yard completion. Honeybadger wraps him up, and......same old Lions.
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Right his value was down, but the packers offer was very close and competitive with the Vikings offer. Jennings chose the Vikings. I wouldn't say the packers had "no interest" as brandx asserted.
The Packers reportedly offered him about $8M per year and he got $9M per year from Vikings. Of course who knows how many years we are talking about and how much he was being offered in guarantees. (He got $18M guaranteed in Minnesota.)
Of course both pale in comparison to the $11M per year extension offer he turned down back in 2012.
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Exciting game at Soldier today, had pretty much everything. I still don't know how good the Bears are, but the TD winning drive was impressive. Can't do much better than 2-0. Lucky to be getting the Steelers next week on a short week. If the Bears can't generate a pass rush soon, a team like the Packs will beat 'em up.
Rodgers could have thrown for 600 yards today if McCarthy wanted him to, and that's not an exageration.
Bears/Texans/Saints all easily could be 0-2 instead of 2-0 right now.
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Exciting game at Soldier today, had pretty much everything. I still don't know how good the Bears are, but the TD winning drive was impressive. Can't do much better than 2-0. Lucky to be getting the Steelers next week on a short week. If the Bears can't generate a pass rush soon, a team like the Packs will beat 'em up.
Rodgers could have thrown for 600 yards today if McCarthy wanted him to, and that's not an exageration.
Bears/Texans/Saints all easily could be 0-2 instead of 2-0 right now.
Close games at the end are common in the NFL. The better team usually finds a way to win in the end. The Packers were ahead in SF with 5 minutes to go, after that the 49ers dominated both sides of the ball when it counted. If a team is 2-0 they deserve to be 2-0
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Close games at the end are common in the NFL. The better team usually finds a way to win in the end. The Packers were ahead in SF with 5 minutes to go, after that the 49ers dominated both sides of the ball when it counted. If a team is 2-0 they deserve to be 2-0
Why did the Packers play so much zone "D" to allow Boldin to dominate?
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Why did the Packers play so much zone "D" to allow Boldin to dominate?
Good question for Capers.
They were missing their best safety and slot corner back which accounted for a lot of miss coverage, poor play. They were hell bent on stopping the read option. They spent all off season obsessing about it. Harbaugh out coached McCarthy and he (Harbaugh) really didn't use the read option much. The Packers did stop the run, but got killed by Kaepernicks arm. They probably were betting on him not being able to throw and they were wrong.
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Wow, blockbuster trade.
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Wow, blockbuster trade.
You don't see those kind of trades much anymore.
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This trade is as one sided as it gets. Giving up a top 3 NFL RB early in his career for a playoff bound team's first rounder?
Total head scratcher.
But, its Cleveland.
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Mind blowing trade considering it's in season and week 2.
No clue what the Colts are doing here. They could have picked up the phone and gotten Leshoure for a late round pick.
Personally, I don't believe Richardson is going to be elite. 3.5 yds per carry through his early career isn't great. New Cleveland regime didn't draft him, probably viewed him as an above average RB. They sold on him at peak value and get a great asset back. Maybe more importantly, they won't have to make a decision on him when his rookie deal is up.
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Couldn't get Leshoure because of Bush's uncertain injury status. Yes, he has fallen out of favor in Detroit, but if Reggie can't go, they will have to dress him.
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Mind blowing trade considering it's in season and week 2.
No clue what the Colts are doing here. They could have picked up the phone and gotten Leshoure for a late round pick.
Personally, I don't believe Richardson is going to be elite. 3.5 yds per carry through his early career isn't great. New Cleveland regime didn't draft him, probably viewed him as an above average RB. They sold on him at peak value and get a great asset back. Maybe more importantly, they won't have to make a decision on him when his rookie deal is up.
Not a bad move for the Browns. Richardson is a big name, but he was pretty average with Cleveland last season, not to mention he's got a lot of wear on those tires. 600+ touches at Bama and another 300+ with the Browns. He could be a nice back to pair with Bradshaw (much like Brandon Jacobs in NY) but it's hard to see him being an elite RB over a 4-5 year span. Cleveland also has two 1st Round picks next season and I believe 2 picks in the 3rd and 4th rounds also. They're going to be pretty bad this season (possibly Bridgewater bad) and they're stockpiling picks. If you can get a 1st Round pick for a RB not named Adrian Peterson, you take it.
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Not a bad move for the Browns. Richardson is a big name, but he was pretty average with Cleveland last season, not to mention he's got a lot of wear on those tires. 600+ touches at Bama and another 300+ with the Browns. He could be a nice back to pair with Bradshaw (much like Brandon Jacobs in NY) but it's hard to see him being an elite RB over a 4-5 year span. Cleveland also has two 1st Round picks next season and I believe 2 picks in the 3rd and 4th rounds also. They're going to be pretty bad this season (possibly Bridgewater bad) and they're stockpiling picks. If you can get a 1st Round pick for a RB not named Adrian Peterson, you take it.
I see you've read Chadiha's article.
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I see you've read Chadiha's article.
I haven't actually. I'll look for it though. Is he a Yahoo guy?
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Seems like a good move for both. Cleveland wasnt going anywhere with or without Richardson, and they are now loaded with picks for next year. Colts add a decent back to a pretty solid team, and get him for this year and next year, and now theoretically have one less need in nextbyear's draft. A bird in the hand...
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I think a team will need 2 wins or less to be "Teddy Brigewater" bad. Jaguars are in pole position.
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I think a team will need 2 wins or less to be "Teddy Brigewater" bad. Jaguars are in pole position.
Good point. The Browns are more likely to be Tajh Boyd/Brett Hundley bad.
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I'll say one thing about the Browns. It proves that although he was a brilliant head coach, Mike Holmgren couldn't evaluate talent to save his life.
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Good point. The Browns are more likely to be Tajh Boyd/Brett Hundley bad.
I think Hundley is going to be a stud NFL QB.
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I think Hundley is going to be a stud NFL QB.
+1
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I'll say one thing about the Browns. It proves that although he was a brilliant head coach, Mike Holmgren couldn't evaluate talent to save his life.
He also traded the Brown's 4th, 5th and 7th round picks to switch 1st round spots with the Vikings to draft Richardson.
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This trade is as one sided as it gets. Giving up a top 3 NFL RB early in his career for a playoff bound team's first rounder?
Total head scratcher.
But, its Cleveland.
Nope, bet a bomber on it.
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He also traded the Brown's 4th, 5th and 7th round picks to switch 1st round spots with the Vikings to draft Richardson.
What your post doesn't capture for those who don't remember is that they moved up only 1 spot, from 4 to 3.
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Nope, bet a bomber on it.
You don't think the Colts are a playoff team with the addition of T-Rich?
I haven't actually. I'll look for it though. Is he a Yahoo guy?
ESPN
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You don't think the Colts are a playoff team with the addition of T-Rich?
ESPN
The AFC is pretty horrible.
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What your post doesn't capture for those who don't remember is that they moved up only 1 spot, from 4 to 3.
The only NFL running back worthy of that is Peterson. Trent Richardson is a completely replaceable part in a modern NFL offense. Brandon Weeden on the other hand...
EDIT: This is what gets me annoyed when coaches like McCarthy want to run for the sake of "balance." Last Sunday showed how the Packers offense should be run. Throw the damn ball 80% of the time until running lanes open up, and THEN you run. That's how Starks got his 100 yard game - you could have put 20 NFL RBs in the same position and they would have achieved the same thing.
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Curious to see if any other bottom feeders make big moves.
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You don't think the Colts are a playoff team with the addition of T-Rich?
You seen there schedule? My prediction for them...at least 7 losses, with tough toss up games against @ Zona, @ SD, and @Tenn.
Sun, Sep 22 Loss
@
49ers
Sun, Sep 29 Win
@
Jaguars
Sun, Oct 6 Loss
vs.
Seahawks
Mon, Oct 14 Toss Up
@
Chargers
Sun, Oct 20 Loss
vs.
Broncos
Sun, Nov 3 Loss
@
Texans
Sun, Nov 10 Win
vs.
Rams
1:00 PM (ET)
Thu, Nov 14 Toss Up
@
Titans
Sun, Nov 24 Toss Up
@
Cardinals
Sun, Dec 1 Win
vs.
Titans
Sun, Dec 8 Loss
@
Bengals
Sun, Dec 15 Win
vs.
Texans
Sun, Dec 22 Loss
@
Chiefs
Sun, Dec 29 Win
vs.
Jaguars
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What your post doesn't capture for those who don't remember is that they moved up only 1 spot, from 4 to 3.
Exactly...it is not like the Queens were going to take Richardson. Maybe take him and trade him but they were pretty much set on Kalil the whole way.
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Exactly...it is not like the Queens were going to take Richardson. Maybe take him and trade him but they were pretty much set on Kalil the whole way.
Or the Vikings had a better offer from another team for the #3 spot.
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Ug... please tell me the NFL will not start following the trend of the NBA in tanking for the following season. I loathe the NBA for that reason. And if the NFL owners decide they can be successful by dumping salary/players for picks and put a crappy product on the field, it will be awful.
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You seen there schedule? My prediction for them...at least 7 losses, with tough toss up games against @ Zona, & the road game at Tenn.
Division winners: Denver, NE, Houston, Cincy/Baltimore (other in as a WC).
That leaves one spot for...Indy? KC? Miami? Pittsburgh? Tenn?
9-7 or even 8-8 may get them in.
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Or the Vikings had a better offer from another team for the #3 spot.
Very good point.
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Division winners: Denver, NE, Houston, Cincy/Baltimore (other in as a WC).
That leaves one spot for...Indy? KC? Miami? Pittsburgh? Tenn?
9-7 or even 8-8 may get them in.
Will point out that Miami has already won at Indy, and Tannehill has put together a couple nice games so far...both on the road. They can go 10-6.
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Division winners: Denver, NE, Houston, Cincy/Baltimore (other in as a WC).
That leaves one spot for...Indy? KC? Miami? Pittsburgh? Tenn?
9-7 or even 8-8 may get them in.
Oh God, Pittsburgh is a tire fire of a team right now. I think KC has the inside track followed by Miami, then Indy.
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To steal a line from Mike Murphy...
Let the record show I had KC and Miami in the playoffs (as wildcards) before the season started.
We'll see if it holds up that way.
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http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2013/09/lions_ndamukong_suh_shrugs_off.html
Naw, no illegal block here. Why should there be a fine? Double standard Goodell
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http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2013/09/lions_ndamukong_suh_shrugs_off.html
Naw, no illegal block here. Why should there be a fine? Double standard Goodell
Not saying you're wrong about that play, but Suh should probably just keep his mouth closed. The guy has 22 sacks in over 3 seasons and has 3 total tackles in 2 weeks this year. While he's not a complete bust, he also isn't having many teams shaking in their boots. If those lineman are like gnats in the air why is he not dominating games?
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Whoever wins the NFC East will be no better than 9-7 at best. All four teams are equally lousy, be fitting if they all went 8-8.
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Whoever wins the NFC East will be no better than 9-7 at best. All four teams are equally lousy, be fitting if they all went 8-8.
But but but Chip Kelly, high speed offense, defenses can't keep up...
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But but but Chip Kelly, high speed offense, defenses can't keep up...
I have to admit I was a fool and got sucked in during the first half against the Redskins.
Playing the NFC East and AFC North is a huge advantage to Pack, Bears, Lions this year. May keep Vikes alive too.
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Whoever wins the NFC East will be no better than 9-7 at best. All four teams are equally lousy, be fitting if they all went 8-8.
The last 9-7 Superbowl team was from the NFC East. Be careful what you wish for. Personally, I think San Francisco will beat out Denver in the SB.
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http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2013/09/lions_ndamukong_suh_shrugs_off.html
Naw, no illegal block here. Why should there be a fine? Double standard Goodell
You call that an illegal block? He fell on the ground in front of Suh. Nothing to see here.
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Simmons sums up what I was trying to say re: comparing nfl teams starting to tank vs what nba teams already do.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9697327/game-changers
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You call that an illegal block? He fell on the ground in front of Suh. Nothing to see here.
That is one of the funniest things I think I've seen in a football game. I wouldn't say he fell on the ground. Looks like he dove, but also barely made contact.
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You call that an illegal block? He fell on the ground in front of Suh. Nothing to see here.
It was an attempt at an illegal block. Pretty blatant, pretty ineffective.
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It was an attempt at an illegal block. Pretty blatant, pretty ineffective.
Doesn't Suh have to be "engaged by another player" at the time for it to be an illegal block?
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Giants look like worst team in the league.
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Somehow the Packers are still going to win this game which makes no sense. This is why I think the Packers could win the Super Bowl this year when in the past 2 years their defense clearly wasn't good enough when it really came down to it. The numbers may not be amazing, but the defense is CLEARLY a MUCH improved unit. Now if the special teams could just get their crap together...
Then again the Broncos might not win a game by less than 14 points this year. Frack.
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Check that, Vikes look like worst team.
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Check that, Vikes look like worst team.
The Vikes are getting "tricked played" to death by a crap team, but the Giants might have played the worst half in NFL history. I believe they had 13 total yards and Manning sacked six times. Now thats terrible.
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Jaguars urge you to check in later this afternoon before making any "worst team" proclamations.
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This Giants effort is pathetic.
Rams, Bucs awful today too.
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Believe it or not, the Vikes v. Browns game is fun to watch. Ponder shows some nads on that td run.
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This Giants effort is pathetic.
Rams, Bucs awful today too.
Add the Pack to that. Absolutely kill themselves again.
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That Pack game was something you basically never see. 14 straight for Cincy, 30 straight GB, 20 straight Cincy.
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Washington was worse than Detroit. One of those "completing-the-process" calls went in Detroit's favor. But any road win is a good win.
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Felt bad for Johnathon Franklin....been watching him here at UCLA for years. Good kid...he was running hard and then the fumble. He had a few of those at UCLA as well.
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Whoever wins the NFC East will be no better than 9-7 at best. All four teams are equally lousy, be fitting if they all went 8-8.
Disagree. Cowboys could be 10-6 or 11-5 this year. Talent is there, question is whether the brain power is, which is always an issue with the Boys.
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Disagree. Cowboys could be 10-6 or 11-5 this year. Talent is there, question is whether the brain power is, which is always an issue with the Boys.
They beat an 0-3 Giants team and beat up a crummy Rams team, both at home. If they can split their next two, maybe 10-6. No way in hell they are going 11-5, not a chance.
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They beat an 0-3 Giants team and beat up a crummy Rams team, both at home. If they can split their next two, maybe 10-6. No way in hell they are going 11-5, not a chance.
Maybe, but we'll see. They also lost on the road to a 3-0 team by one point.
They have the Redskins twice, Eagles twice, Giants, Raiders, Lions, Vikings...all those are winnable. They won't win them all, but all very winnable.
Bears...winnable...unlikely, but the Bears aren't exactly a juggernaut. Saints...Dallas has played them tough for many years...winnable. At the Chargers...winnable. Broncos, but at Dallas. Packers, but at Dallas.
They could also go 7-9. I'm merely going on talent, but they have underachieved on talent many times before.
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Maybe, but we'll see. They also lost on the road to a 3-0 team by one point.
They have the Redskins twice, Eagles twice, Giants, Raiders, Lions, Vikings...all those are winnable. They won't win them all, but all very winnable.
Bears...winnable...unlikely, but the Bears aren't exactly a juggernaut. Saints...Dallas has played them tough for many years...winnable. At the Chargers...winnable. Broncos, but at Dallas. Packers, but at Dallas.
They could also go 7-9. I'm merely going on talent, but they have underachieved on talent many times before.
I'll say this, they should win the East.
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Niners...wtf? Outscored 56-10 last two weeks.
Thurs night games are usually terrible, now they fly cross country to St. Louis...hmm
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I need 18 points out of the Bears defense tonight. Can I get it?
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Odd no challenge.
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I need 18 points out of the Bears defense tonight. Can I get it?
Your sister can get it.
Vikings ruined a nice Cincinnati victory today. Crap.
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Who are the Vikings?
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Dish,
how do they not review that play, of all scoring plays?!
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Dish,
how do they not review that play, of all scoring plays?!
No clue, I guess it was a TD.
I have no idea how this is a game right now.
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No clue, I guess it was a TD.
I have no idea how this is a game right now.
LOTS of home field calls this game
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Outstanding challenge and reversal.
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Outstanding challenge and reversal.
Even more outstanding throw and catch
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Ballgame.
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Bears.
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If Espn still had "Jacked Up" Cutler would be on the other side of it for once.
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If Espn still had "Jacked Up" Cutler would be on the other side of it for once.
Collingsworth is smarmy and I don't always love him, but I appreciated him calling out Cutler's critics about being soft after he hit the truck stick, despite his whole team wanting him to go down. Maybe not the smartest play for your QB's health, but love to see him lead by example.
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Collingsworth is smarmy and I don't always love him, but I appreciated him calling out Cutler's critics about being soft after he hit the truck stick, despite his whole team wanting him to go down. Maybe not the smartest play for your QB's health, but love to see him lead by example.
I loved seeing Cutler truck the DB but to be fair, the DB slowed up thinking that Cutler was going to slide. If Cutler did slide and the DB so much as landed on him, that's going to be 15 extra yards. I remember a few years ago, the Bears were playing in New England and Tom Brady scrambled, slowed as if he was going to slide but kept going and "juked" Brian Urlacher (who was letting up to avoid a personal foul) and picked up a key first down. The faux-slide can be a HUGE advantage for smarter QBs.
Also of note from last night's game, Jonathan Dwyer got free on the outside and lowered his head right into Chris Conte's face, nearly knocking Conte's helmet off. Because of the new rule, that should have been a personal foul penalty on Dwyer, which is a joke IMO. Based on the fact that there was no call, I have to believe that the officials tend to think of that rule as a joke too and are rarely going to call it. Has anyone actually seen that called in a game so far?
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I loved seeing Cutler truck the DB but to be fair, the DB slowed up thinking that Cutler was going to slide. If Cutler did slide and the DB so much as landed on him, that's going to be 15 extra yards. I remember a few years ago, the Bears were playing in New England and Tom Brady scrambled, slowed as if he was going to slide but kept going and "juked" Brian Urlacher (who was letting up to avoid a personal foul) and picked up a key first down. The faux-slide can be a HUGE advantage for smarter QBs.
Also of note from last night's game, Jonathan Dwyer got free on the outside and lowered his head right into Chris Conte's face, nearly knocking Conte's helmet off. Because of the new rule, that should have been a personal foul penalty on Dwyer, which is a joke IMO. Based on the fact that there was no call, I have to believe that the officials tend to think of that rule as a joke too and are rarely going to call it. Has anyone actually seen that called in a game so far?
I think the illegal hit penalties have been called a lot in the Packers first three games. Both for and against them. Some of them are total BS, but some are pretty awful. The Packers got bailed out on a 3rd and long due to a phantom roughing hit.
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Nope, bet a bomber on it.
Still feel that way? :)
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I think the illegal hit penalties have been called a lot in the Packers first three games. Both for and against them. Some of them are total BS, but some are pretty awful. The Packers got bailed out on a 3rd and long due to a phantom roughing hit.
I'm not talking about roughing penalties on the D. I'm talking about a ball-carrier getting called for a personal foul for lowering his head into a defender when outside the "tackle box."
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Interesting game coming up Sunday in Detroit. I think this is the game where we'll learn the most about the Bears, and what kind of team they're going to be for the season. Equally as big of a game for the Lions, one of these teams is going to be 2-0 in the division.
With the Falcons and Niners both 1-2, this is huge for the North teams (sans Vikes). Door is now open for perhaps the Bears, Lions, Pack to all make the playoffs. Both the Niners and Falcons have (albeit road) losses to their division leaders (and likely division winners). Issue is both the Niners and Falcons are quite vulnerable right now. Niners have a trap game waiting for them Thursday night. Falcons get the Pats at home, where we'll learn a lot about what kind of Pats team that is.
I thought the Pack's toughest stretch was these first three. Pack won't win out, but look at their schedule, and there's at least 10 wins there.
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Interesting game coming up Sunday in Detroit. I think this is the game where we'll learn the most about the Bears, and what kind of team they're going to be for the season. Equally as big of a game for the Lions, one of these teams is going to be 2-0 in the division.
With the Falcons and Niners both 1-2, this is huge for the North teams (sans Vikes). Door is now open for perhaps the Bears, Lions, Pack to all make the playoffs. Both the Niners and Falcons have (albeit road) losses to their division leaders (and likely division winners). Issue is both the Niners and Falcons are quite vulnerable right now. Niners have a trap game waiting for them Thursday night. Falcons get the Pats at home, where we'll learn a lot about what kind of Pats team that is.
I thought the Pack's toughest stretch was these first three. Pack won't win out, but look at their schedule, and there's at least 10 wins there.
My ticket from vegas really hopes there is 11. Getting worried.
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I thought the Pack's toughest stretch was these first three. Pack won't win out, but look at their schedule, and there's at least 10 wins there.
The talking heads, especially Cowherd, were talking at length today about the perceived rift between ARog and McCarthy.
Is this just the same mindless crap that they use to fill time every day, or is there something to it?
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My prediction is Aaron Rodgers wins MVP but Giants win Super Bowl, again! NFC North is second fiddle to NFC East.
lmao
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The talking heads, especially Cowherd, were talking at length today about the perceived rift between ARog and McCarthy.
Is this just the same mindless crap that they use to fill time every day, or is there something to it?
just mindless crap based on McCarthy's comments afterwards
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Your sister can get it.
Vikings ruined a nice Cincinnati victory today. Crap.
Looks like the Bears D could get it, too.
Honest question, will the Vikings go 0-16 this year? I mean, they just lost, at home, to a team who told themselves they had already given up on the season 2 games into it, with the backup to the worst quarterback in the NFL starting. Then again, is Christian Ponder worse than Brandon Weeden? Ponder has 8 in the box to try to stop the HGH machine yet he still has 2 touchdowns to his 5 interceptions 3 weeks into the season. That is EMBARRASSING! Can see why Jennings didn't want to play for "12" though.
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ViQueens have some nice New Jersey owners....complete scumbags owners.
http://kstp.com/sports/stories/S3169568.shtml?cat=7
More to come....believe me.
Gov. Mark Dayton pushed hard for taxpayer funding of the stadium and often stood with the Wilfs at news conferences.
After the bill was passed the idiot known as Gov. Dayton claimed he had no idea that PSL's were part of the bill that he signed. Why do we elect people who are clueless?
If he would have read the bill he would have known there would be PSL's in the stadium. He signed it anyway not knowing the language in the bill. Reminds of someone recently who doesn't read the bills.
And for those that do not know Mark Dayton he is worth multimillion's as one of the heirs to the Target Corp.
http://politicsinminnesota.com/2013/09/dayton-urges-stadium-authority-to-limit-wilfs-psl-fees/
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ViQueens have some nice New Jersey owners....complete scumbags owners.
http://kstp.com/sports/stories/S3169568.shtml?cat=7
More to come....believe me.
Gov. Mark Dayton pushed hard for taxpayer funding of the stadium and often stood with the Wilfs at news conferences.
After the bill was passed the idiot known as Gov. Dayton claimed he had no idea that PSL's were part of the bill that he signed. Why do we elect people who are clueless?
If he would have read the bill he would have known there will be PSL's in the stadium. Idiot.
And for those that do not know Mark Dayton is worth multi-millions as one of the heirs to the Target Corp.
http://politicsinminnesota.com/2013/09/dayton-urges-stadium-authority-to-limit-wilfs-psl-fees/
I read through the legal firm's agreed upon procedures report... apparently gave the NFL and politicians great confidence, but the problems might be in that the Wilf's have an overly complex structure making it difficult to identify some areas of risk using procedures such as "asking the Wilf's if there are any issues"... plus, contingent liabilities with these guys are a huge concern for me. Hopefully it all works out, but "playing with fire" is probably an appropriate phrase to use here.
Dayton is .. not good.
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I see Red McCombs all over. I met the guy at the Mpls. Club when he bought the team and he was pretty shady.
I love Formula 1 racing and he brought it to Austin so he is not that bad of a guy. Another reason to go to Austin.
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You are being too kind with "clueless".
How about the windfall from e-pull tabs too.
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How common are PSLs? I remember the titans had them, and as a Jaguars season ticket holder I know they don't. (Obviously). And is the concept that you simply pay a large fee for the rights to buy your tickets? One time or recurring?
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Electronic pull tabs will make Millions for the new stadium...Hilarious!
You are being too kind with "clueless".
How about the windfall from e-pull tabs too.
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How common are PSLs? I remember the titans had them, and as a Jaguars season ticket holder I know they don't. (Obviously). And is the concept that you simply pay a large fee for the rights to buy your tickets? One time or recurring?
I know for the family-owned Bears tickets that I use, a one-time, $2,000 PSL was due for each seat when the the Bears moved to new Solider Field. This is for nice, upper-deck seats which have a face value of $115/ticket.
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^ Lambeau also has a one-time PSL fee, even Camp Randall has PSL's for most seats, pretty common
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Still feel that way? :)
I am gentleman, of course the bet is on. Lemme know if you like anything specific to New England area of the country.
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If he would have read the bill he would have known there would be PSL's in the stadium. He signed it anyway not knowing the language in the bill. Reminds of someone recently who doesn't read the bills.
Yup....about to be enacted in 6 days. What a wonderful country.
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Yup....about to be enacted in 6 days. What a wonderful country.
Ooooh more politics talk, this will end swimmingly!
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Please don't cause this thread to get locked.
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Consensus.
http://deadspin.com/vikings-owners-must-pay-85-million-for-organized-crim-1377871020?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
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Consensus.
http://deadspin.com/vikings-owners-must-pay-85-million-for-organized-crim-1377871020?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
MUScoop / The Superbar / Re: 2013 NFC North/NFL Thread on: August 18, 2013, 10:08:33 AM
Further proof.
Superior Court Judge Deanne Wilson delivered sharp words for Zygi Wilf, saying his testimony exhibited “bad faith and evil motive.”
http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/220067381.html
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http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2013/09/detroit_lions_nate_burleson_to.html
Already thin at receiver. Not helpful. Popular rumor is that the NFL is looking for a way to blame it on Suh.
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I feel sorry for the folk's in London paying to watch two 0-3 teams this weekend although if Ponder can't play (ribs) maybe Cassell replaces him for good LOL
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I feel sorry for the folk's in London paying to watch two 0-3 teams this weekend although if Ponder can't play (ribs) maybe Cassell replaces him for good LOL
Don't count out THE SILVER FOX.
If we beat Pitt I say let's do it.. bring back THE GUNSLINGER!!!
What a story this year's improbable run to the Super Bowl will be for Minnesota! Favre to Jennings is going to be great to watch.
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Don't count out THE SILVER FOX.
If we beat Pitt I say let's do it.. bring back THE GUNSLINGER!!!
What a story this year's improbable run to the Super Bowl will be for Minnesota! Favre to Jennings is going to be great to watch.
Sid was talking about that today. He claimed in a recent conversation with BF, he was thinking about playing again, but Mrs. BF said no.
Gotta remember, it was Sid talking too.
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Don't count out THE SILVER FOX.
If we beat Pitt I say let's do it.. bring back THE GUNSLINGER!!!
What a story this year's improbable run to the Super Bowl will be for Minnesota! Favre to Jennings is going to be great to watch.
FTFY ;D
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Sid was talking about that today. He claimed in a recent conversation with BF, he was thinking about playing again, but Mrs. BF said no.
Gotta remember, it was Sid talking too.
"Mrs. BF" = Every NFL GM
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I thought Niners could get tripped up tonight, but my god are the Rams bad. Like top 5 pick awful.
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I thought Niners could get tripped up tonight, but my god are the Rams bad. Like top 5 pick awful.
SF scored more than 7 points on someone not named the Packers.
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yeesh... not a good day to be a bears fan. lions winning in every aspect
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yeesh... not a good day to be a bears fan. lions winning in every aspect
Lions are a really good team as long as they don't totally lose their minds. I think they win the division.
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Jennings! Vikings have arrived! Skol!
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yeesh... not a good day to be a bears fan. lions winning in every aspect
The Coach Killer showed up as his usual, panicky self.
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It takes a special kind of stupid to blow a 24 pt lead with 9 minutes to go......Detroit almost pulled it off.
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Not saying you're wrong about that play, but Suh should probably just keep his mouth closed. The guy has 22 sacks in over 3 seasons and has 3 total tackles in 2 weeks this year. While he's not a complete bust, he also isn't having many teams shaking in their boots. If those lineman are like gnats in the air why is he not dominating games?
He dominates some games.
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The Broncos are absurd. If there are no significant injuries to Manning or 2 or more wide receivers, it will take a minor miracle for anyone else to win the Super Bowl.
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The Broncos are absurd. If there are no significant injuries to Manning or 2 or more wide receivers, it will take a minor miracle for anyone else to win the Super Bowl.
The key to beating them is the same as it has been beating Manning the past decade. Pressure him. There have been time in his career that he has looked unbeatable, then they run into that one team that pressures him and it falls apart. His weakness is that he isn't mobile.
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The key to beating them is the same as it has been beating Manning the past decade. Pressure him. There have been time in his career that he has looked unbeatable, then they run into that one team that pressures him and it falls apart. His weakness is that he isn't mobile.
Manning thru four games has 16 TDs and no interceptions. Just crazy good.
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Manning thru four games has 16 TDs and no interceptions. Just crazy good.
He has a great offensive line. He just never gets hit.
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Total f up by Pokes, you can not do that a yard and a half from the goal line.
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Don't hate, appreciate! NFC East is the toughest and they will prove it again this year.
LOL!
Dallas 2-2 (only wins are against dreadful Rams and dreadful/NFC East opponent NYG)
Philadelphia 1-3 (only win is over NFC East opponent Washington)
Washington 1-3 (only win is over dreadful Oakland...0-2 against NFC North)
NYG 0-4
Could this be the worst division in the history of football? Wait, they're the TOUGHEST and will PROVE IT this year...AGAIN!
:-*
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LOL!
Dallas 2-2 (only wins are against dreadful Rams and dreadful/NFC East opponent NYG)
Philadelphia 1-3 (only win is over NFC East opponent Washington)
Washington 1-3 (only win is over dreadful Oakland...0-2 against NFC North)
NYG 0-4
Could this be the worst division in the history of football? Wait, they're the TOUGHEST and will PROVE IT this year...AGAIN!
:-*
I agree that they are pretty awful this year. Dallas could be good. Problem is, they are a team full of head cases. If they come together and play to potential they are one of the best. More often than not though they are a team of me-firsts and will likely be 9-9 or 10-6 with at most 1 win in the playoffs. Get them to gel though and watch out.
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I can't remember a season with so many beyond awful teams. That's not even getting to the really bad teams.
Beyond Awful: Jacksonville (going 0-16, and that is saying a lot), Giants (outscored 69-7 last two weeks), Washington, Tampa (I was way off on them), St. Louis (Bradford is owed $27 mil next two years), Oakland
Really Bad: Pittsburgh, Arizona, Minny, Jets (awful when on road), Bills (awful when not at home), Philly (could be awful), Carolina
It's real tough to find middle class teams, usually there's a ton. Balt, Texans, maybe Colts, maybe Bears, Dallas for sure.
I wish I could buy stock in the Browns making the playoffs next year, that team is setting itself up. Heck, they are in first now.
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Took my daughter to the Jags game today. Stadium was maybe 1/2 full. (Ignoring the 23 tarp covered sections) Not only are they going 0-16, I believe it is possible that they might never have a lead after half. They lead 3-0 today, largest lead of the year.
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I can't remember a season with so many beyond awful teams. That's not even getting to the really bad teams.
Beyond Awful: Jacksonville (going 0-16, and that is saying a lot), Giants (outscored 69-7 last two weeks), Washington, Tampa (I was way off on them), St. Louis (Bradford is owed $27 mil next two years), Oakland
Really Bad: Pittsburgh, Arizona, Minny, Jets (awful when on road), Bills (awful when not at home), Philly (could be awful), Carolina
It's real tough to find middle class teams, usually there's a ton. Balt, Texans, maybe Colts, maybe Bears, Dallas for sure.
I wish I could buy stock in the Browns making the playoffs next year, that team is setting itself up. Heck, they are in first now.
Beat me to the post. Some teams are just brutal to watch. The Ravens look great one week, then have like 25 yards rushing today and Flacco throws 5 ints in loss to Buffalo. Houston up big, then Matt S. throws horrendous, stupid interception and blows it. Jets defense is awesome, yet Geno Smith has 2 interceptions and 2 fumbles, all of which Tenn scores a TD, 28 points. On and on and on.......each week.
2014 draft will have 5 to 6 QBs selected in the first round. Thats how bad the QBs are playing so far this
year.
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The Coach Killer showed up as his usual, panicky self.
Clearly you didn't actually watch the game.
It's easy to look at the stats and/or highlights and say that, but in reality, he didn't play like the frustrated chucker that he has at time in the past.
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Clearly you didn't actually watch the game.
It's easy to look at the stats and/or highlights and say that, but in reality, he didn't play like the frustrated chucker that he has at time in the past.
Boy, I don't know. Not,sure how else you'd describe those INTs...balls that just should not have been thrown, and put them in a hole they had no chance of escaping.
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Cutler just looked very off yesterday. Wasn't as sharp as he had been the previous games. I still think you can win with him, and when you look at the oodles of crap quarterbacks out there, is better than most.
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Boy, I don't know. Not,sure how else you'd describe those INTs...balls that just should not have been thrown, and put them in a hole they had no chance of escaping.
One INT was just an overthrow to Jeffery. That's on Cutler, no doubt, but it wasn't necessarily a poor decision.
On Delmas' first INT, Jeffery slowed his route but Cutler expected him to keep going across the field. If he keeps going, he beats Delmas to the ball. Delmas timed it perfectly and may have still broken it up, but wouldn't have intercepted it.
On the INT that was returned to the 1, Cutler put too much air under it and the safety got there. They ran that same route twice later in the game and got a big gain and a TD.
All in all, it just wasn't the Bears' day. Bush fumbled but the Lions fell on it and then scored on the next play. Stafford fumbled at the goal line and the ball looked like it was going to land right in Wootton's arms heading the other way, but instead Stafford snatched it back and scored. The Bears' D relies heavily on turnovers (especially since they've been giving up big chunks of yardage) and when the ball's not bouncing their way, they're going to have trouble...especially when the O turns it over 4 times.
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Clearly you didn't actually watch the game.
It's easy to look at the stats and/or highlights and say that, but in reality, he didn't play like the frustrated chucker that he has at time in the past.
Clearly I did and so did every analyst I heard. One of the INTs was a good defensive play...the rest were the return of the really bad mechanics and fundamentals. Throwing off the back foot, not squaring up and thus overthrowing, holding the ball too long on the fumble when the defense jumped into the passing lane on his first option (throw it away that deep a don't hold that ball so loosely which is his MO and defenses have marked him). His four turnovers led to 17 points...and kept his defense on the field too long. Oh yeah, great third down efficiency too (1-13).
The guy has talent when it is harnessed...but he doesn't want to be so at age 30, you get what you get. Besides, he married a Barrington girl.
That said, he had a nice come back where he settled down, and he didn't have the Jay excuses post-game so there is room for encouragement. But all those yards where against a prevent defense.
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Clearly I did and so did every analyst I heard. One of the INTs was a good defensive play...the rest were the return of the really bad mechanics and fundamentals. Throwing off the back foot, not squaring up and thus overthrowing, holding the ball too long on the fumble when the defense jumped into the passing lane on his first option (throw it away that deep a don't hold that ball so loosely which is his MO and defenses have marked him). His four turnovers led to 17 points...and kept his defense on the field too long. Oh yeah, great third down efficiency too (1-13).
Then you don't have a good understanding of football. Poor mechanics doesn't necessarily mean "panicking." Cutler throws TD passes with poor mechanics. Is he panicking in those situations too? He overthrew Jeffery and put too much air under the pass to Marshall (not to mention, he was going for the back shoulder throw but Marshall didn't make the same read). Is that panicking? He made good throws on the same route later in the game. Was he panicking one the first throw but not on the second two? When the WR slows on his route and the QB doesn't expect him to, is that panicking? Obviously Cutler didn't play well, but to simply chalk it up to him panicking is lazy and inaccurate.
I'm more than willing to admit that Cutler is never going to be on the Manning/Brady/Brees level of elite QBs. However, teams can win Super Bowls with QBs just below that elite level and Cutler has the ability to do just that.
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Cutler reminds me of a "not as good" Brett Favre. Favre did a lot of the same things Cutler did (throw off the back foot, say "f*ck it" and threw into coverage anyway), but because he was simply better, got away with them more often.
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The guy has talent when it is harnessed...but he doesn't want to be so at age 30, you get what you get. Besides, he married a Barrington girl.
Two things I will never understand about Cutler criticism. 1) Your first comment about "not wanting to be". Why do people continually act like he doesn't give a crap about winning and just does his stuff his own way? If you've not seen his development and improvement over the last few years, and this season especially, you're just looking for continuing narratives in which to criticize him. He needs to show more consistency but stop pretending like he's terrible cause he doesn't want to be better.
2) Who gives a flying f*&k who he married? I've seen 4-5 comments on this thread about it as if its some contributing factor to his play. Let him live his life. Rodgers is marrying some white trash chick named Destiny, if the Packers don't turn it around, is she a reason too?
Either way, the Bears played like crap on both sides of the ball and it will be interesting to see how Trestman rebounds from his first poor performance as HC.
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Cutler reminds me of a "not as good" Brett Favre. Favre did a lot of the same things Cutler did (throw off the back foot, say "f*ck it" and threw into coverage anyway), but because he was simply better, got away with them more often.
If you consider "getting away with it" as throwing fewer interceptions and completing more passes, Favre's career INT% is 3.3%, while Cutler's is 3.4%. Favre's career completion percentage is 62.0%, while Cutler's is 60.9%. He didn't really get away with it as much more as you'd think.
Addition: If you actually look at Favre's first 8 seasons as a starter compared to Cutler's...
Favre: INT% 3.2%, Comp% 61.2%
Cutler: INT%: 3.4%, Comp% 60.9%
I wouldn't have thought those numbers would be that close.
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my favorite fact about the "coach killer" moniker is how everyone conveniently forgets that all the coaches that have been fired around cutler have rarely been re-hired. which pretty obviously means that there is little interest/belief out there that these coaches still have a place in the NFL.
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If you consider "getting away with it" as throwing fewer interceptions and completing more passes, Favre's career INT% is 3.3%, while Cutler's is 3.4%. Favre's career completion percentage is 62.0%, while Cutler's is 60.9%. He didn't really get away with it as much more as you'd think.
How do you know what "I think?" Favre threw less interceptions, more TDs, more yards, and had a higher completion percentage. I said that he was a "not as good" version as Favre, and the statistics bear that out.
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How do you know what "I think?" Favre threw less interceptions, more TDs, more yards, and had a higher completion percentage. I said that he was a "not as good" version as Favre, and the statistics bear that out.
Someone's cranky this morning.
I was using "you" as third person. Admittedly, I should have said: He didn't really get away with it as much more as one would think.
I was simply speaking in terms of Favre getting away with it more often, which is what you stated. Since there's no stat for "bad throw that the QB got away with," I used two stats that I believe most represent that. Using only those numbers, their ability to "get away with it" is pretty similar.
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Someone's cranky this morning.
Nope. Now you are not only telling me what I think, but how I feel. Are you going to tell me what I should have for lunch too?
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I thought Cutler was terrible yesterday. As bad as the picks were, the fumble was a killer.
Lions were driving to go up 21. Wright gets the interception off the Megatron tip. With a TD, Bears can cut it to 7. Cutler stays in the pocket way too long, doesn't get rid of it, fumbles, TD Lions.
I don't know if the Bears would have driven 85 yards or not to score there, but that can't happen.
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How do you know what "I think?" Favre threw less interceptions, more TDs, more yards, and had a higher completion percentage. I said that he was a "not as good" version as Favre, and the statistics bear that out.
He also had a career that is twice as long as cutlers. Favre is the career leader in interceptions. No one has thrown more in the history of the game. Lolz. I get he had a lower interception percentage, but he threw a hell of a lot more.
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Nope. Now you are not only telling me what I think, but how I feel. Are you going to tell me what I should have for lunch too?
I don't know how you're feeling, but you're acting like...someone who's cranky. (edited to avoid a potential ban...and for the kids)
At least you avoided the point of my post.
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At least you avoided the point of my post.
No, actually I addressed it pretty much earlier. And it proved my point. A less talented version of Favre.
He also had a career that is twice as long as cutlers. Favre is the career leader in interceptions. No one has thrown more in the history of the game. Lolz. I get he had a lower interception percentage, but he threw a hell of a lot more.
I was basing all of the stats on a percentage (INT, TD) or per-game (yards) basis. Didn't think that had to be explained.
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Then you don't have a good understanding of football. Poor mechanics doesn't necessarily mean "panicking." Cutler throws TD passes with poor mechanics. Is he panicking in those situations too? He overthrew Jeffery and put too much air under the pass to Marshall (not to mention, he was going for the back shoulder throw but Marshall didn't make the same read). Is that panicking? He made good throws on the same route later in the game. Was he panicking one the first throw but not on the second two? When the WR slows on his route and the QB doesn't expect him to, is that panicking? Obviously Cutler didn't play well, but to simply chalk it up to him panicking is lazy and inaccurate.
I'm more than willing to admit that Cutler is never going to be on the Manning/Brady/Brees level of elite QBs. However, teams can win Super Bowls with QBs just below that elite level and Cutler has the ability to do just that.
Yes, I am an idiot savant of NFL talent evaluation. Who knew the NFL scouts look for a bad mechanics QB? As Trestman said post game, the receivers were wide open on the picks...Cutler's happy feet and panic passes returned and the result of his poor fundamentals resulted in 17 points going the other way.
Look, the guy has incredible talent but he is better outside an offense. You get the great and the poor. Unfortunately, there is a lot more poor than great. Trestman said at half time that the team needs to settle down and be patient. Maybe Trestman can do that with Cutler...but the old returned yesterday. Brutal.
Btw, I am a Bears fan...and as to the Barrington jab, it is Monday morning...some of you need to grow a sense of humor.
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If you consider "getting away with it" as throwing fewer interceptions and completing more passes, Favre's career INT% is 3.3%, while Cutler's is 3.4%. Favre's career completion percentage is 62.0%, while Cutler's is 60.9%. He didn't really get away with it as much more as you'd think.
Addition: If you actually look at Favre's first 8 seasons as a starter compared to Cutler's...
Favre: INT% 3.2%, Comp% 61.2%
Cutler: INT%: 3.4%, Comp% 60.9%
I wouldn't have thought those numbers would be that close.
One other relevant stat for Favre's first eight seasons as a starter:
8 winning seasons, 9 playoff victories, two NFC titles, one Super Bowl championship.
Jay Cutler:
2 winning seasons, 1 playoff victory, 0 conference titles, 0 Super Bowls.
I do agree with the premise that Cutler is Favre Lite. Favre Very, Very Lite.
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Comparisons to Favre are kinda silly. Similar style? Sure. Favre is a HoFer and an all-time QB. Jay Cutler...is not. That's not to say he isn't any good because he is, but doesn't really belong in the same conversation as Favre.
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Comparisons to Favre are kinda silly. Similar style? Sure. Favre is a HoFer and an all-time QB. Jay Cutler...is not. That's not to say he isn't any good because he is, but doesn't really belong in the same conversation as Favre.
I have only compared their styles. That's it.
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If you consider "getting away with it" as throwing fewer interceptions and completing more passes, Favre's career INT% is 3.3%, while Cutler's is 3.4%. Favre's career completion percentage is 62.0%, while Cutler's is 60.9%. He didn't really get away with it as much more as you'd think.
Addition: If you actually look at Favre's first 8 seasons as a starter compared to Cutler's...
Favre: INT% 3.2%, Comp% 61.2%
Cutler: INT%: 3.4%, Comp% 60.9%
I wouldn't have thought those numbers would be that close.
Maybe because they aren't. Comparing their 7 first "full" seasons (because it is as many as Cutler has played)...
Favre (92-98) 3,201 attempts, 93 INT = 2.9%
Cutler (07-12) 2,818 attempts, 95 INT = 3.4%
TD/INT Ratio...
Favre (92-98) 182/93 = 1.96
Cutler (07-12) 127/95 = 1.34
Completion %...
Favre (92-98) 1971/3201 = 61.6%
Cutler (07-12) 1751/2818 = 62.1%
Despite all the talk about how goods he's been prior to yesterday, 25% into the schedule, he is currently on pace for what could be one of his worst years as far as INTs go, second only to '09. I still think he'll have a decent year, but at this point in his career, there is no "good Jay" or "Bad Jay," there's really just Jay.
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Despite all the talk about how goods he's been prior to yesterday, 25% into the schedule, he is currently on pace for what could be one of his worst years as far as INTs go, second only to '09. I still think he'll have a decent year, but at this point in his career, there is no "good Jay" or "Bad Jay," there's really just Jay.
That's very well stated. Cutler's 30-year-old and at this point in his career, he is what he is. Like I said before, he's not going to be in the Manning/Brady category but he's in the "upper middle-class" of NFL QBs (along with Flacco, Rivers, Schaub, etc).
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Cutler reminds me of a "not as good" Brett Favre. Favre did a lot of the same things Cutler did (throw off the back foot, say "f*ck it" and threw into coverage anyway), but because he was simply better, got away with them more often.
If Brett's dad and Jeff George's mom hooked up, I'm guessing a little Jay would be the result.
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The multi million dollar question is what does Emery do this offseason with Cutler. I have no idea, have not heard anything. My gut tells me if the Bears want him back, they'll franchise him. That's the safest option for 2014, albeit a big cap hit. That would at least allow the Bears to draft someone or explore trade options for Mallett (who I believe will be dealt this offseason).
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The multi million dollar question is what does Emery do this offseason with Cutler. I have no idea, have not heard anything. My gut tells me if the Bears want him back, they'll franchise him. That's the safest option for 2014, albeit a big cap hit. That would at least allow the Bears to draft someone or explore trade options for Mallett (who I believe will be dealt this offseason).
You think Mallett, as a trade, would be a better pickup than any of the QBs in the draft?
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You think Mallett, as a trade, would be a better pickup than any of the QBs in the draft?
Just save yourself the trouble and see if Brad Johnson has anything left in the tank.
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Tebow, Freeman, Sanchez......can all be had for a song.
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I think you have to resign him. He is a better QB than most in the league and you aren't going anywhere with a bad quarterback.
And if Mallett were an answer, don't you think someone would have tried to trade for him by now?
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I think you definitely franchise him. You then have 2 drafts to try to replace him. Safe to assume (at this point) Bridgewater ends up in either JAX or CLe. after that, it appears to be a pretty deep class at QB, so it'll be interesting to see what they decide to do.
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The multi million dollar question is what does Emery do this offseason with Cutler. I have no idea, have not heard anything. My gut tells me if the Bears want him back, they'll franchise him. That's the safest option for 2014, albeit a big cap hit. That would at least allow the Bears to draft someone or explore trade options for Mallett (who I believe will be dealt this offseason).
Emery is a different kind of GM. If Cutler has a typical Cutler season - 3200 yards, 20 TD, 15 INT - and the Bears go 9-7 or 10-6, I could see Emery franchising him, trying to trade him and drafting a QB like A.J. McCarron who will likely be available late in Round 1. The D is aging and clearly not what it used to be. Tillman, Melton, Jennings, Anderson and DJ Williams are all FAs after the season. Emery may want to blow it up and start over. Let's face it, the Bears are a potential playoff team but does anyone really think they're a legit Super Bowl contender or will be in the next 2-3 years with this core?
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Emery is a different kind of GM. If Cutler has a typical Cutler season - 3200 yards, 20 TD, 15 INT - and the Bears go 9-7 or 10-6, I could see Emery franchising him, trying to trade him and drafting a QB like A.J. McCarron who will likely be available late in Round 1. The D is aging and clearly not what it used to be. Tillman, Melton, Jennings, Anderson and DJ Williams are all FAs after the season. Emery may want to blow it up and start over. Let's face it, the Bears are a potential playoff team but does anyone really think they're a legit Super Bowl contender or will be in the next 2-3 years with this core?
I do. They aren't far from it. Shore up the lines on either side of the ball and why not? Now do I *think* that's going to happen? No. But I don't think the possibility is as remote as you suggest.
All a team has to do is get hot at the right time, have the right pieces in place, and they can go real far.
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I do. They aren't far from it. Shore up the lines on either side of the ball and why not? Now do I *think* that's going to happen? No. But I don't think the possibility is as remote as you suggest.
All a team has to do is get hot at the right time, have the right pieces in place, and they can go real far.
It is the NFL, so of course you're right, but unfortunately, shoring up the line on either side of the ball, is one of the toughest things to do, short of finding a QB. The Bears could find themselves having to do both soon.
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I think you have to resign him. He is a better QB than most in the league and you aren't going anywhere with a bad quarterback.
And if Mallett were an answer, don't you think someone would have tried to trade for him by now?
Couldn't you have said the same thing about Rodgers before he took over?
Cutler is the definition of an average NFL starting QB. I would think the Bears will franchise him, given the scarcity of quality QB options available, but I don't know if they have their heart set on necessarily keeping him.
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I think you have to resign him. He is a better QB than most in the league and you aren't going anywhere with a bad quarterback.
And if Mallett were an answer, don't you think someone would have tried to trade for him by now?
I don't know if Mallett is the answer, but I think if the Pats are going to trade him, it'd have to be this offseason. He'll be 26 going into next year, free agent after 2014 season. No idea if he'd be good or not, but if a team misses out on Bridgwater/Hundley/Mariotta, he'd be at least an inexpensive alternative (minus draft pick compensation).
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Couldn't you have said the same thing about Rodgers before he took over?
Only if the Pats view Mallett as the heir apparent to Brady. (Because that is how Rodgers was viewed in GB.)
Now Brady is 36...and Favre was 35 when Rodgers was drafted so maybe....
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Only if the Pats view Mallett as the heir apparent to Brady. (Because that is how Rodgers was viewed in GB.)
Now Brady is 36...and Favre was 35 when Rodgers was drafted so maybe....
Yeah, i don't know on that. Obviously, I don't follow the Patriots very closely and as Dish pointed out, he (Mallett) is getting up there in age a bit.
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I do. They aren't far from it. Shore up the lines on either side of the ball and why not? Now do I *think* that's going to happen? No. But I don't think the possibility is as remote as you suggest.
All a team has to do is get hot at the right time, have the right pieces in place, and they can go real far.
They aren't *that* far from it, but I don't think they're *that* close to it either. Only the Cardinals, Redskins and Lions are older than the Bears and the Bears have some potential big money (re: big signing bonus) guys about to enter free agency, particularly on defense. If Emery wants to gut the D and build it back around Bostic, McClellin, Paea, Greene, etc (potentially as a 3-4) then he may want to re-work the offense as well.
I'm not saying that I expect the front office to do that or that I want the front office to do that, but I wouldn't be all that surprised if Emery/Trestman wanted to bring in their own guy to run the offense sooner rather than later.
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Finally word on how much JayBee's seat license will cost
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/2-500-average-seat-rights-005331884--nfl.html
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Finally word on how much JayBee's seat license will cost
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/2-500-average-seat-rights-005331884--nfl.html
"The potential cost of the seat licenses was a flashpoint as the agreements were negotiated, with Gov. Mark Dayton warning the team against excessive fees for what he had billed as a ''people's stadium.''"
How quaint.
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It never ceases to amaze me that private corporations (NFL teams) are able to somehow convince the public that giving funds for their building (stadium) is a good idea. That private corporation then proceeds to make bank on the investment with a miniscule return to the investors.
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It never ceases to amaze me that private corporations (NFL teams) are able to somehow convince the public that giving funds for their building (stadium) is a good idea. That private corporation then proceeds to make bank on the investment with a miniscule return to the investors.
Eh. The "return to the investors" is non-monetary in nature. The public wants its football team.
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Eh. The "return to the investors" is non-monetary in nature. The public wants its football team.
I know. But it just seems so... convoluted. It's funny how sports/fandom can supersede normal priorities/complaints like government spending/tax, etc.
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"The potential cost of the seat licenses was a flashpoint as the agreements were negotiated, with Gov. Mark Dayton warning the team against excessive fees for what he had billed as a ''people's stadium.''"
How quaint.
He signed the bill and then a year later could not believe that PSL's were part of the agreement and how wrong it was. A bill that he signed.
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I know. But it just seems so... convoluted. It's funny how sports/fandom can supersede normal priorities/complaints like government spending/tax, etc.
I gladly paid .10 for every $10 I spent in MKE county for years to keep the Brewers, and have an awesome stadium to go to throughout the year.
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I gladly paid .10 for every $10 I spent in MKE county for years to keep the Brewers, and have an awesome stadium to go to throughout the year.
Exactly. The ability to have something to do is valuable.
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Exactly. The ability to have something to do is valuable.
I don't disagree. But hypothetically, say every city in the US declined to provide any public funding. Teams are still going to build stadiums, but just on their own dime. They support themselves (since they get 99.9% of the profits) and we still get to see sports.
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The Packers defense has been better than their offense this year. The offense has looked awful outside of the Redskins game. The defense has shockingly looked good, especially the run defense.
- 49ers game: Just had the wrong gameplan. They took a gamble and dared Kaepernick to beat him with his arm, guessing he couldn't and he did. The offense also gave the 49ers the ball on their own end of the field at least once and put it in the end zone.
- Redskins game: The Skins ended up with a lot of points and yards, but it was all after the game was out of hand.
- Bengals game: More giving the ball to the Bengals well into their own territory by the Packers offense.
- Lions game: Look really good, BUT they are without Megatron. The way Stafford has missed his receivers today, and the fact that the Packers still aren't stacking the box, it may not have made a huge difference (obviously it still would, though, when you're missing the best wideout in football).
Also, for my weekly rant...Why is Mike McCarthy taking timeouts with 1:51 left in the 1st half while the Lions have the ball and 2nd and 6? If the Lions want to go into the half down by 6 and kicking the ball away to start the 2nd half LET THEM! Especially when your offense hasn't done anything in the 1st half.
Every single week you can count on Mike McCarthy mismanaging the clock to end halves and making terrible decisions regarding penalties that give up points or cost the Packers points. For someone who continually talks about how unacceptable penalties are, maybe he should look in the mirror regarding his clock management. Every single week he gives teams points.
Completely unacceptable.
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Also, looks like the Packers will be right back where they should be after today: tied in the loss column for the division lead.
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Rodgers is doing a very nice job of getting the ball out on time. No time for the rush to arrive. Detroit's offense isn't good without CJohnson in. No fear of the deep ball. And Stafford keeps having Joey Harrington tendencies. Ah, well.
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Bears with another terrible first half. doomed them big time.
also, anyone follow mike wilbon on twitter? holy cow he seems to have a vendetta against the bears for firing lovie
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I also like that Casey Hayward will (hopefully) be back by the end of the month (I believe). In my opinion, he is the 2nd best cover corner on the Packers. Shields has really impressed me this season, so I'd say he's the #1 coverage corner, and Hayward would be 2. When Hayward returns I'd like to see Williams play a similar role to what Charles Woodson did with the Packers, just be a playmaker rather than a coverage guy.
Burnett being back helps as well. Perry finally showed some flashes today.
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Even at 1-2, the Pack was still by far the best team in the division. They'll win the North with ease.
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Even at 1-2, the Pack was still by far the best team in the division. They'll win the North with ease.
Cowboys almost got the Broncos today. Oh well, you are going to be right on your call, but I really thought they were going to get Denver today.
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Cowboys almost got the Broncos today. Oh well, you are going to be right on your call, but I really thought they were going to get Denver today.
Cowboys needed to let the Broncos score, could have done it with a minute left and a timeout still left.
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Cowboys needed to let the Broncos score, could have done it with a minute left and a timeout still left.
I think Moreno fell on purpose to get the first down, but not the touchdown.
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I think Moreno fell on purpose to get the first down, but not the touchdown.
No question about it.
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Cowboys needed to let the Broncos score, could have done it with a minute left and a timeout still left.
Cowboys needed to not give up 51 points.
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The way the Jets and Giants are playing no one need worry about a Super Bowl home game!
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Even at 1-2, the Pack was still by far the best team in the division. They'll win the North with ease.
I hope their offensive line gets better soon. The pass protection has been inconsistent at best.
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Just announced Josh Freeman to the Vikings. Ponder, Cassel and now Freeman.
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Pryor looking great. Loving this late Sunday night game, especially after some awful games today.
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So...is the Matt Ponder era over already in Minnesota?
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Cowboys needed to let the Broncos score, could have done it with a minute left and a timeout still left.
That's what I was thinking initially, but if they stop them on 3rd and 1 it forces Denver to kick a field goal there. Dallas would have gotten the ball back with plenty of time only needing a field goal to tie.
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Pryor looking great. Loving this late Sunday night game, especially after some awful games today.
Oops. I forgot it was on.
Watched last week's World Series of Poker I had on the DVR.
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Pryor looking great. Loving this late Sunday night game, especially after some awful games today.
Maybe the data won't back up my thoughts, but there just seems to be a lot of bad football games this year. I just haven't been able to get into watching some of the games where I don't have a rooting interest.
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So...is the Matt Ponder era over already in Minnesota?
Looks like the Viqueens are pretty high on this guy http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14594/mcleod-bethel-thompson
and cannot carry 4 QB's. So Ponder to the IR for the rib injury is my guess.
I am pretty sure that the 'queen's still have to pay Freeman about $3 Mill. this year.
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Looks like the Viqueens are pretty high on this guy http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/14594/mcleod-bethel-thompson
Dude's got three last names.
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Pryor looking great. Loving this late Sunday night game, especially after some awful games today.
The Raiders did everything they could to give that game away. Rivers made some terrible throws down the stretch.
That second half is a prime example of why I think Pryor will never be a better than average NFL QB. He has the athleticism, but his decision making is terrible. SD is not a good defensive team, especially with their injuries, but even they adjusted their gameplan and prevented his sideline sprints in the second half. His best ability is extending plays, but he will be figured out. He doesn't have the arm or throwing mechanics that Wilson or RG3 have.
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The Raiders did everything they could to give that game away. Rivers made some terrible throws down the stretch.
That second half is a prime example of why I think Pryor will never be a better than average NFL QB. He has the athleticism, but his decision making is terrible. SD is not a good defensive team, especially with their injuries, but even they adjusted their gameplan and prevented his sideline sprints in the second half. His best ability is extending plays, but he will be figured out. He doesn't have the arm or throwing mechanics that Wilson or RG3 have.
Lost in the Seahawks' W's and something to watch as the season goes along: Russell Wilson's passing hasn't been very impressive.
Last 4 games:
49-94 (52.2%), 677 yards, 7 TD, 4 INT
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I am pretty sure that the 'queen's still have to pay Freeman about $3 Mill. this year.
Yep, Freeman gets the $3mil from the Vikings as well as his salary from the Bucs because he is vested and was released under contract. Not bad if you are Freeman.
Wonder if this means Samantha Steele will become a free agent any time soon ;D
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I actually like Freeman's upside, and they are buying low...
BUT, I don't think he's suddenly going to rebound this season, so unless this somehow allows them to keep him for cheap next year, it's not a great move.
He could be a good player next year, or in the future... but I don't think this season is worth anything.
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I actually like Freeman's upside, and they are buying low...
BUT, I don't think he's suddenly going to rebound this season, so unless this somehow allows them to keep him for cheap next year, it's not a great move.
He could be a good player next year, or in the future... but I don't think this season is worth anything.
I agree with this.
I also think Greg Shiano is pretty much a tool whose time in the NFL will be short. He can then go back to college where being an absolute control freak works better.
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BUT, I don't think he's suddenly going to rebound this season, so unless this somehow allows them to keep him for cheap next year, it's not a great move.
Freeman wouldn't agree to a 2 year deal correct? Gotta believe he has visions of playing elsewhere.
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Dominic Raiola is one classy dude.
http://tommeltonscouting.wordpress.com/2013/10/07/dominic-raiola-spews-hate-speech-at-wisconsin-band-members/
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I actually like Freeman's upside, and they are buying low...
BUT, I don't think he's suddenly going to rebound this season, so unless this somehow allows them to keep him for cheap next year, it's not a great move.
He could be a good player next year, or in the future... but I don't think this season is worth anything.
Freeman is getting a 12-week tryout. AP's window is closing so the Vikings need a QB soon if they want to be a contender with AP. If Freeman can prove that he's significantly better than Ponder, he'll get a solid multi-year deal from the Vikings and be their "franchise" QB going into next season.
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Freeman is getting a 12-week tryout. AP's window is closing so the Vikings need a QB soon if they want to be a contender with AP. If Freeman can prove that he's significantly better than Ponder, he'll get a solid multi-year deal from the Vikings and be their "franchise" QB going into next season.
Yea, I figure that's what they are thinking... but 3million isn't nothing.
Could pay off I suppose.
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I agree with this.
I also think Greg Shiano is pretty much a tool whose time in the NFL will be short. He can then go back to college where being an absolute control freak works better.
It's worth noting the Shiano was the HC at Rutgers previous to being the Bucs coach. Given the shenanigans that have gone on there recently, one can't be surprised by his less than exemplary behavior.
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Yea, I figure that's what they are thinking... but 3million isn't nothing.
Could pay off I suppose.
If they do view him as a potential franchise QB, they likely had to overpay a bit now to get in his good graces. Seems juvenile but sometimes you gotta play the game.
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If they do view him as a potential franchise QB, they likely had to overpay a bit now to get in his good graces. Seems juvenile but sometimes you gotta play the game.
Plus they may have had some competiton in the negotiations (OAK).
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9787117/oakland-raiders-release-demoted-qb-matt-flynn
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Dominic Raiola is one classy dude.
http://tommeltonscouting.wordpress.com/2013/10/07/dominic-raiola-spews-hate-speech-at-wisconsin-band-members/
I don't condone it, but there is some exceptional irony here with the UW band and their antics over the years. Something about chickens coming home to roost...
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Matt Flynn, released.....how quickly they come down
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9787117/oakland-raiders-release-demoted-qb-matt-flynn
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Matt Flynn, released.....how quickly they come down
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9787117/oakland-raiders-release-demoted-qb-matt-flynn
Seems like a pretty safe bet he will probably take over clip board duties from Seneca Wallace in the next day or two.
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Seems like a pretty safe bet he will probably take over clip board duties from Seneca Wallace in the next day or two.
Agreed, but a few years ago he was the guy that was going to light the league on fire.
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Agreed, but a few years ago he was the guy that was going to light the league on fire.
Just cuz a few GB fans thought that didn't make it so. When his own OC really showed no interest - most people should have seen this coming
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Agreed, but a few years ago he was the guy that was going to light the league on fire.
Sure. If I'm Green Bay, and he does in fact come back, I'm thrilled. You get a guy who knows the offense forward and back, who seemingly is extremely comfortable in the roll, and cheap.
Certainly not what he envisioned, but probably not the worst thing in the world for Flynn either. He made a whole bunch of money, and now could potentially settle into a very comfortable living in a backup roll. Doug Peterson 2.0.
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Just cuz a few GB fans thought that didn't make it so. When his own OC really showed no interest - most people should have seen this coming
Well, considering that Seattle's GM who signed him came directly from Green Bay's front office, obviously it wasn't just a few GB fans. Doesn't mean he made the right decision, but looking at that team now, reasonable to conclude he has some idea what he's doing.
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Backs against the wall, at home, against crap team, and the Falcons are dreadful. Mike Smith is a terrible, terrible coach. Why waste those ten seconds? That run had no chance too, terrible.
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Just cuz a few GB fans thought that didn't make it so. When his own OC really showed no interest - most people should have seen this coming
This makes no sense. At all. Packer fans don't sign players.
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Backs against the wall, at home, against crap team, and the Falcons are dreadful. Mike Smith is a terrible, terrible coach. Why waste those ten seconds? That run had no chance too, terrible.
Have never and will never be a believer in the Falcons. Loved going in there and throttling them on the road to the Super Bowl. No doubt in my mind we were winning that game going into it.
I feel like the Texans are the same. May look incredible some seasons, but will not get it done in the Playoffs the way they are built.
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As a football fan, that game drove me insane. I can not stand Mike Smith, what an awful coaching job.
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Great story lines developing for the Vikings. Will be an enjoyable regular season, but anxious to see how well we do once in the playoffs. SKOL VIKINGS!
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Great story lines developing for the Vikings. Will be an enjoyable regular season, but anxious to see how well we do once in the playoffs. SKOL VIKINGS!
You thinking 10 years ahead? With AP gone (then again, with whatever he's on you never know...) they won't be in the Playoffs then, either.
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Just cuz a few GB fans thought that didn't make it so. When his own OC really showed no interest - most people should have seen this coming
Wasn't he signed rather quickly by Seattle....not exactly a "few GB fans"
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Just saw that clay is out a month at least. How big a loss is that? As in, will there be much of a pass rush without him?
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Wasn't he signed rather quickly by Seattle....not exactly a "few GB fans"
Being signed is a lot different than "being the guy that is going to set the league on fire".
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Backs against the wall, at home, against crap team, and the Falcons are dreadful. Mike Smith is a terrible, terrible coach. Why waste those ten seconds? That run had no chance too, terrible.
At the end of the game, they had 20 seconds and more timeouts than the Jets. Why didn't they give themselves a chance? They put it all on the Jets missing a field goal that an NFL kicker makes 90% of the time.
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At the end of the game, they had 20 seconds and more timeouts than the Jets. Why didn't they give themselves a chance? They put it all on the Jets missing a field goal that an NFL kicker makes 90% of the time.
The 3 points Falcons passed up at the end of the first half was beyond stupid. The Jets even provided a second chance to correct that decision with the pass interference call on 4 th down, and they still screwed it up.
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The 3 points Falcons passed up at the end of the first half was beyond stupid. The Jets even provided a second chance to correct that decision with the pass interference call on 4 th down, and they still screwed it up.
Oh yes....I forgot about that. Excellent point. Almost like the Falcons were panicking at 1-3.
They have the talent to make up a lot of ground, and the NFC is a little soft, but you gotta think that the wild card teams are going to be either Seattle or San Francisco, and likely some team from the NFC North.
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Just saw that clay is out a month at least. How big a loss is that? As in, will there be much of a pass rush without him?
It's a huge loss in my opinion. They did get some decent pass rush against the kittens on Sunday from Perry and Neal, both who play outside linebacker. Hopefully they can pick up the slack.
You can argue that the strength of the defense has been the interior line this year especially stopping the run. Last year the Packers went 3-1 with Matthews out of the lineup, so all is not lost yet.
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Can 'roids make one's thumb brittle?
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Can 'roids make one's thumb brittle?
I thought that applied to a different appendage
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Being signed is a lot different than "being the guy that is going to set the league on fire".
Fair point, but if I recall he was probably the top free agent QB out there and signed to be the starter by a team that is pretty good. There are no guarantees of anything, but at the time the pundits thought he was going to do very well.
He fell awfully quick.
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The 3 points Falcons passed up at the end of the first half was beyond stupid. The Jets even provided a second chance to correct that decision with the pass interference call on 4 th down, and they still screwed it up.
I was beyond pissed, as I have the Falcons kicker on my fantasy team and needed 4 points from him last night. Ultimately I got the 4th point when they took the lead 28-27, but how on earth when you are trailing by 10 nearing the end of the half do you not take the points. What an idiot.
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At the end of the game, they had 20 seconds and more timeouts than the Jets. Why didn't they give themselves a chance? They put it all on the Jets missing a field goal that an NFL kicker makes 90% of the time.
Exactly, those timeouts don't carry over to next week. Depending on how you feel about icing a kicker, at least use them there. You have nothing to lose, you weren't smart enough to use your timeouts wisely, at least use them to make Folk think about it. He probably still hits the FG, but do something that seems competent. I hate Mike Smith.
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Exactly, those timeouts don't carry over to next week. Depending on how you feel about icing a kicker, at least use them there. You have nothing to lose, you weren't smart enough to use your timeouts wisely, at least use them to make Folk think about it. He probably still hits the FG, but do something that seems competent. I hate Mike Smith.
Doesn't it seem like Mike Smith has gotten a pass the last couple years for all these stupid decisions? I always hear about how bad Ron Rivera, Jason Garrett, etc are in game management, but until this morning Smith wasn't talked about as frequently.
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Doesn't it seem like Mike Smith has gotten a pass the last couple years for all these stupid decisions? I always hear about how bad Ron Rivera, Jason Garrett, etc are in game management, but until this morning Smith wasn't talked about as frequently.
It's amazing how much bad head coaching there is. Especially in an era of coaching where you have better coordinators, position coaches, and so many quality control/specialists. There's only 32 of those jobs, you would think billion dollar organizations would be better at finding more competent talent to coach their teams.
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I thought going for the TD was the right thing to do. Didn't work out, but it's hard to get to the 1 yard line. I think football teams kick and punt way too much.
I thought the Jets were stupid not to go for 2 up 12 with 12 minutes to go. You figured Atlanta had time for 2 TDs, and not 1 TD and 2 FGs. 26-14 is no worse the 27-14 at that point in the game, and 28-14 is much, much better.
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It's amazing how much bad head coaching there is. Especially in an era of coaching where you have better coordinators, position coaches, and so many quality control/specialists. There's only 32 of those jobs, you would think billion dollar organizations would be better at finding more competent talent to coach their teams.
I always thought it was half baked, but I'm starting to think it may be smart/necessary. Bill Simmons has talked about for years having a time management coach for game days where he/she provides the guidance on when to take timeouts, etc. Simmons suggested someone who has played Madden a billion times, which would work, but that aside, why doesn't someone do that?
The other thing I hate, and its usually the QB pulling the trigger, is any 2nd half timeout burned to avoid a 5yrd delay of game penalty. I get it if it's 3rd or 4th and inches, but if it's 2nd and 9, eat the penalty. That timeout is worth way more for either clock or challenge purposes. 1st half sure, burn em up not a ton of value there. While the QB does it, I think the coaches need to coach this up.
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I always thought it was half baked, but I'm starting to think it may be smart/necessary. Bill Simmons has talked about for years having a time management coach for game days where he/she provides the guidance on when to take timeouts, etc. Simmons suggested someone who has played Madden a billion times, which would work, but that aside, why doesn't someone do that?
The other thing I hate, and its usually the QB pulling the trigger, is any 2nd half timeout burned to avoid a 5yrd delay of game penalty. I get it if it's 3rd or 4th and inches, but if it's 2nd and 9, eat the penalty. That timeout is worth way more for either clock or challenge purposes. 1st half sure, burn em up not a ton of value there. While the QB does it, I think the coaches need to coach this up.
As the son of a football coach, I can't tell you how many times I've watched a game with my father and heard him say, "You can get 5 yards back. You can't get a timeout back."
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I thought going for the TD was the right thing to do. Didn't work out, but it's hard to get to the 1 yard line. I think football teams kick and punt way too much.
I thought the Jets were stupid not to go for 2 up 12 with 12 minutes to go. You figured Atlanta had time for 2 TDs, and not 1 TD and 2 FGs. 26-14 is no worse the 27-14 at that point in the game, and 28-14 is much, much better.
Agree 100000% on going for 2 there. That's another thing coaches mess up all the time.
In that situation before the half, the clock severely limits your options, that's why down 10, I think you have to kick it there. I agree that coaches kick/punt too much, but my thought is the clock and game situation there dictated taking the points. You'd rather go into the locker room down one score instead of two.
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Kicking the Falcons while they're down...Julio done for the year.
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Amazing that Week 5 just ended, and the NFC playoff races are all but over. I might end up eating my words on this, but the Seahawks are winning the West, Saints basically just clinched the NFC South, whoever comes out of the crap that is the NFC East, and the Pack will win the North.
Niners are still too good not to take one of the wild card spots. If the Vikes schedule wasn't so brutal, I'd give them a chance. I have zero faith in the Cards/Rams/Anyone Else in East (I actually had to force myself to list any of those teams as wild card hopefuls).
Coming down to Lions & Bears. That Week 10 game is going to be huge.
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Fair point, but if I recall he was probably the top free agent QB out there and signed to be the starter by a team that is pretty good. There are no guarantees of anything, but at the time the pundits thought he was going to do very well.
He fell awfully quick.
Tells you a lot about parity in the NFL when you call a 7-9 team "pretty good".
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Agree 100000% on going for 2 there. That's another thing coaches mess up all the time.
In that situation before the half, the clock severely limits your options, that's why down 10, I think you have to kick it there. I agree that coaches kick/punt too much, but my thought is the clock and game situation there dictated taking the points. You'd rather go into the locker room down one score instead of two.
Agree entirely. Go for 2, but end of half you get the 3. Gives you way more options in the second half where time is much more of an issue. Down one score is much more manageable than 2 scores. It forces teams into only going for TD's in the second half and that limits options, play calling, etc. It drives me crazy, just like the team that needs a TD to win with 40 seconds left and has a 2nd and 8...instead of getting the first down on the next three plays they go for three big plays and miss on all three. Sometimes you have to take what it is there. Get the three points, get the first down and move the ball.
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Tells you a lot about parity in the NFL when you call a 7-9 team "pretty good".
They were a playoff team, correct?
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They were a playoff team, correct?
Yep, first non-strike year sub-.500 team to make it, I believe. Does that make them "pretty good" to you?
I guess some people like... coming in through the back door.
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How 'bout those Bears!
Yeesh, Thursday night football is ugly.
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How 'bout those Bears!
Yeesh, Thursday night football is ugly.
+1 All about the money, baby!
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How 'bout those Bears!
Yeesh, Thursday night football is ugly.
It just looks like it is played at a different speed. I just wish the NFL would stop doing this, or at least limit it to teams coming off their bye weeks. Even when the games are close, they don't "look" right to me.
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How 'bout those Bears!
Yeesh, Thursday night football is ugly.
only when the Bears play
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How 'bout those Bears!
Yeesh, Thursday night football is ugly.
Ouch, as a Bears fan that was ugly...thankfully the Giants are just terrible.
Chicago's Defense is just not that good. If there is no turnover then it's going to be points. They just cannot get off the field...no pressure on the QB with front four, yes I know they are thin at tackle but you'd never guess Peppers was on the field...ok, let me stop or I'll go all day.
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Ouch, as a Bears fan that was ugly...thankfully the Giants are just terrible.
Chicago's Defense is just not that good. If there is no turnover then it's going to be points. They just cannot get off the field...no pressure on the QB with front four, yes I know they are thin at tackle but you'd never guess Peppers was on the field...ok, let me stop or I'll go all day.
I haven't watched a whole lot of Bear football this year yet, but the concern I would have if I were a Bear fan is they depend too much on the big turnover. When they get it, they are fine, but good teams don't turn the ball over as much and you can't depend on the game changing turnover every week. Also, the age on the defense is catching up with them and it will get worse as the year goes on.
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It just looks like it is played at a different speed. I just wish the NFL would stop doing this, or at least limit it to teams coming off their bye weeks. Even when the games are close, they don't "look" right to me.
I think the exact same thing. The players look a step slow and still sore from the previous week. It makes sense though when you consider that they have 3 days to recover as opposed to 6.
If the NFL wants to keep Thursday night games (which they do), they need to allow teams to play on Thursday the week after their bye. Players would get 10 days to get right, play a game and then get 9 days to get right again. If the NFL wants to continue to pretend to care about the safety of the players, it would very logical to do this. Admittedly, I don't know all of the scheduling logistics though.
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I don't think it is a safety issue. Are players more apt to get hurt playing on less rest? Especially if the other team is as well? I just think it is a "quality of the game" issue.
BTW, the Giants are terrible. They got old quick, and didn't replace their players with decent enough talent.
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I don't think it is a safety issue. Are players more apt to get hurt playing on less rest? Especially if the other team is as well? I just think it is a "quality of the game" issue.
BTW, the Giants are terrible. They got old quick, and didn't replace their players with decent enough talent.
The quality definitely suffers but, IMO, it's hard to talk about improving player safety when asking guys to play 2 games in 5 days.
Your spot-on about the Giants..and I fear that the Bears are going to be facing a similar problem before too long.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/11/report-petersons-son-beaten-in-critical-condition/
Man... This. Just. Sucks.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/11/report-petersons-son-beaten-in-critical-condition/
Man... This. Just. Sucks.
Well this is the worst thing I've read so far today.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/11/report-petersons-son-beaten-in-critical-condition/
Man... This. Just. Sucks.
Speechless.
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I'm not really into "an eye for an eye" style punishment... but lock this dude in a room with Peterson for 15min... let's see what happens.
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Thursday night football sucks, plain and simple. It's basically the equivalent of someone waking me up at 3am, and asking me to do a sales call (even if I know in advance I'm going to be awoken).
It's a weird dynamic that the NFL has. They are trying to make every dollar possible, but there is still the mentality that Friday nights are reserved for high school football, Saturday is reserved for college football, and Sunday/Monday is for the NFL. Don't get me wrong, I respect and like that set up, and don't think it will change. However, the expansion to full season of Thursday night games flat out sucks. It's fine for the opening Thursday in Week 1, if they wanted to do it starting Week 5 for the bye week teams from Week 4, that's fine.
It's been talked about in small discussions, but what will be interesting is eventually if/when the NFL spreads out the Sunday schedule. Rumor was (is?) there'd be an east coast 11am CST kick, a couple of noon kick's, then spreading out games each hour. Theory is you'll get more eye balls on each game, as they'll start/finish more independently of one another.
PS-I think every Raider home game (at least against any Mountain/Pacific time zone team) should be a 10:30pm CST kick. It's so Raiders. I loved that last Sunday night, even though the ratings sucked.
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Thursday night football sucks, plain and simple. It's basically the equivalent of someone waking me up at 3am, and asking me to do a sales call (even if I know in advance I'm going to be awoken).
It's a weird dynamic that the NFL has. They are trying to make every dollar possible, but there is still the mentality that Friday nights are reserved for high school football, Saturday is reserved for college football, and Sunday/Monday is for the NFL. Don't get me wrong, I respect and like that set up, and don't think it will change. However, the expansion to full season of Thursday night games flat out sucks. It's fine for the opening Thursday in Week 1, if they wanted to do it starting Week 5 for the bye week teams from Week 4, that's fine.
It's been talked about in small discussions, but what will be interesting is eventually if/when the NFL spreads out the Sunday schedule. Rumor was (is?) there'd be an east coast 11am CST kick, a couple of noon kick's, then spreading out games each hour. Theory is you'll get more eye balls on each game, as they'll start/finish more independently of one another.
PS-I think every Raider home game (at least against any Mountain/Pacific time zone team) should be a 10:30pm CST kick. It's so Raiders. I loved that last Sunday night, even though the ratings sucked.
I can't get used to it. I am just not in the mind set for football on Thursday night. I forget that it is even on. Sunday night is fine because it is just a carry on of the early games and Monday is ok because it is established and we expect it, but Thursday night just feels awkward for nfl.
maybe the kickoff game as you say and then games starting with and after Thanksgiving I would be fine with.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/11/report-petersons-son-beaten-in-critical-condition/
Man... This. Just. Sucks.
Looks like they are taking him off life support tonight.
http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2013/10/adrian_petersons_sioux_falls_child_was_a_secret_source_says.php
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Looks like they are taking him off life support tonight.
http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2013/10/adrian_petersons_sioux_falls_child_was_a_secret_source_says.php
Frickin horrible,
Stories like this make me physically ill and not just because it is a famous football player.
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Makes everything else going on trivial. Not a Vikes fan but a Peterson fan. Prayers are with him
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I'm not really into "an eye for an eye" style punishment... but lock this dude in a room with Peterson for 15min... let's see what happens.
I'm all for an eye for an eye style. I would actually make it 15 guys on one, to simulate what it is like for a grown adult on a 2 year old. Adrian on this piece of feces wouldn't be fair comparison.
Prayers for the family and especially the young boy. Disgraceful.
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I place some blame on the baby momma.
The child was in Patterson's apartment, where the boy had recently moved with his mother.
Maybe she didn't know, but Patterson has quite a history:
Court records show that Patterson has a son with another Sioux Falls woman, and also show that the mother had asked for protection orders twice, claiming he'd choked and punched her, threatened her with a knife and held her in the bedroom against her will.
The mother chose not to pursue permanent protection orders, which ultimately were dropped voluntarily in 2010 and 2011.
In 2012, Patterson was charged with simple assault against the mother, however, and was ordered to undergo family violence training and to stay away from her until completing it.
Patterson's child lives with his mother, who declined to comment Friday morning when reached by The Argus Leader.
Another woman applied for a protection order against Patterson in 2004 in Jackson County, where he attended high school.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/vikings/2013/10/11/adrian-peterson-son-critical-condition/2966015/
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I place some blame on the baby momma.
The child was in Patterson's apartment, where the boy had recently moved with his mother.
Maybe she didn't know, but Patterson has quite a history:
Court records show that Patterson has a son with another Sioux Falls woman, and also show that the mother had asked for protection orders twice, claiming he'd choked and punched her, threatened her with a knife and held her in the bedroom against her will.
The mother chose not to pursue permanent protection orders, which ultimately were dropped voluntarily in 2010 and 2011.
In 2012, Patterson was charged with simple assault against the mother, however, and was ordered to undergo family violence training and to stay away from her until completing it.
Patterson's child lives with his mother, who declined to comment Friday morning when reached by The Argus Leader.
Another woman applied for a protection order against Patterson in 2004 in Jackson County, where he attended high school.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/vikings/2013/10/11/adrian-peterson-son-critical-condition/2966015/
There is nobody to blame but the adult who beat a 2 year old to death.
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The 2-year-old son of Vikings running back Adrian Peterson has died.
Police in South Dakota confirmed to Chip Scoggins of the Minneapolis Star Tribune that the 2-year-old boy died, days after he was allegedly beaten by his mother’s boyfriend. Robert Joseph Patterson was arrested on charges of aggravated battery of an infant and aggravated assault, and the state’s attorney is now reviewing the matter for possible additional charges.
The names of the boy and his mother are being withheld, at the family’s request. Peterson briefly addressed reporters today and asked for privacy for his family.
Peterson, the NFL’s reigning Most Valuable Player, plans to play on Sunday.
Sad all around
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There is nobody to blame but the adult who beat a 2 year old to death.
+1 :'(
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There is nobody to blame but the adult who beat a 2 year old to death.
I disagree. IF she knew of Patterson's violent past behavior, and decided to move in with him despite that knowledge, she deserves to be blamed. I'm not saying it would be criminal behavior, but certainly blameworthy. Like allowing your five year old son to be babysat by a known pedophile.
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http://nypost.com/2013/10/12/adrian-peterson-saw-son-for-first-time-while-he-was-on-life-support/
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Like Dahmer, he won't last very long in prison. Guard turns his back for 5 minutes and it will all be taken care of
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http://nypost.com/2013/10/12/adrian-peterson-saw-son-for-first-time-while-he-was-on-life-support/
A lot of people are mixing him up with his other son, who he pretty actively involved with.
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Packers continue to absolutely kill themselves. Unbelievable.
Offense also continues to suck, despite the emergence of a run game. Not sure why the Packers refuse to huddle when the offense continues to do absolutely nothing. Speeding things up doesn't do anything for you when you're off the field in 3 plays, and it doesn't wear a defense down to play 3 quick plays. Very frustrating.
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Shocking that McCarthy would use a timeout when we're punting the ball from our own 1 yard line. Take the penalty and lose 1.5 feet. Makes no sense.
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The murder of Peterson's child is tragic but now having read the story I find it difficult to muster sympathy for Peterson. His first interaction with the child was when the boy was on life support. Hopefully, Peterson plays some role in the lives of the other two women who bore him children. I have to wonder how many other "families" Mr. Peterson has created.
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This Packer game has been awful.
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This Packer game has been awful.
In many ways. Cobb probably done for the year. That's the biggest issue. Jones could have something serious based on how he was walking, but the actual hit didn't look nearly as bad as Cobb's. Packers might REALLY struggle if Cobb is out more than a week or 2. Offense already looks awful.
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Both sides, just a train wreck of a game.
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I don't think the offense has been the same since Philbin left. I think he was way more important in the development of game plans...in game adjustments...and just a sounding board for MM than we fully understand.
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I don't think the offense has been the same since Philbin left. I think he was way more important in the development of game plans...in game adjustments...and just a sounding board for MM than we fully understand.
Agreed. Good point.
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My god, Vikings.
Holy $&@! Texans.
The level of football by both teams today is beyond pathetic.
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Packers now have three of their next four at home. The road game is Sunday night v. the Vikings. Hopefully they can overcome their injuries and put a nice little stretch together now.
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A lot of people are mixing him up with his other son, who he pretty actively involved with.
I am pretty sure Adrian, Jr. lives with him.
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I am pretty sure Adrian, Jr. lives with him.
I believe the son that died is a son from another mother that he wasn't aware of until recently.
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Packers now have three of their next four at home. The road game is Sunday night v. the Vikings. Hopefully they can overcome their injuries and put a nice little stretch together now.
I really think they should win every game from now to Thanksgiving.
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I really think they should win every game from now to Thanksgiving.
Depends on the injuries.
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I believe the son that died is a son from another mother that he wasn't aware of until recently.
I know that he did have a DNA test on the son who just died.
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Lions at 4-2, 2-2 on the road. I was fortunate enough to miss the first 3 quarters and only see them dominate the 4th, getting next to nothing from Calvin Johnson. Being a fatalistic Lions fan, the only positive thing I am willing to say right now is that the Lions won't lose 13 games this year.
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How about them ViQueens JB?
I just read a column by Charlie Walters of Pioneer Press, he thinks Ponder will be traded by the deadline or else released just after it.
Frazier might get to finish the season - SKOL!!
that MNF game next week (MN @ Giants) should get HUGE ratings
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Colts are such a Jekyll and Hyde team.
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It's the post Seahawks hangover.
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Just wanted to call it ahead of time, but I think Jags beat Chargers tomorrow.
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Just wanted to call it ahead of time, but I think Jags beat Chargers tomorrow.
+1
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Mckown showing life. But I think the redskins are just bad.
I'm annoyed by Michael wilbon
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Kudos to the Lions for finding a new way to lose after all of these years. Get the ball back with 1:40 to play, play conservatively, don't get the second first down to keep moving down the field, have your rookie punter shank a punt, giving the Bengals the ball near midfield with 26 seconds left, two quick completions, 54 yard field goal, ballgame.
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Just like the Queens are better off without Ponder, the Bears are better off without Cutler.
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Just like the Queens are better off without Ponder, the Bears are better off without Cutler.
Huh?
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Bears defense is as bad as I have seen going back to Abe Gibron...the injuries have just shown the defense is getting old. McKown proved to be a great back-up in the West Coast offense with a 120 rating. Don't know what game these refs were watching but that offsides, in particular, on the onside kick was horrible...and I believe very late after the Bears recovered. In the end, if you cannot make a stop at all (problem all season), made worse by injuries, it will be a long season. Looks like Cutler out a span as well.
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Hearing from source Cutler has groin tear, out at least a month, not confirmed. Team is re-signing Jordan Palmer, confirmed.
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Just like the Queens are better off without Ponder, the Bears are better off without Cutler.
What a stupid unnatural carnal knowledgeing statement. Take off your cheese head glasses.
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Gotta be rough to have intimate relations with a groin tear, a'ina? Can anyone speak to this?
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Now hearing injury is "possible season ender".
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unnatural carnal knowledge.
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What a stupid unnatural carnal knowledgeing statement. Take off your cheese head glasses.
No cheesehead glasses on. Cutler has all the physical tools. But man, is something lacking up top in his head. Lack of fundamentals also doesn't help him. He is certainly fun to watch, because he's either making an incredible play from an athletic standpoint that may help them win a game, or he's making an absolutely atrocious decision that may help them lose a game. There really isn't much of an in between with him.
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Finley injury not good news for the Pack.
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Finley injury not good news for the Pack.
Not at all. 2010 all over again.
My first thought was: a 2nd concussion in 4 weeks. He'll be out for a while. My second thought was: a 2nd concussion in 4 weeks. Could his career be over?
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Not at all. 2010 all over again.
My first thought was: a 2nd concussion in 4 weeks. He'll be out for a while. My second thought was: a 2nd concussion in 4 weeks. Could his career be over?
Best, Jahvid.
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Not at all. 2010 all over again.
My first thought was: a 2nd concussion in 4 weeks. He'll be out for a while. My second thought was: a 2nd concussion in 4 weeks. Could his career be over?
My thoughts as well....plus he's on my fantasy team
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On a positive note for the Pack, after Boykin looked overwhelmed last week, he looked like he belonged today.
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Now hearing injury is "possible season ender".
God, I hope not. Let's see what the MRI says.
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No cheesehead glasses on. Cutler has all the physical tools. But man, is something lacking up top in his head. Lack of fundamentals also doesn't help him. He is certainly fun to watch, because he's either making an incredible play from an athletic standpoint that may help them win a game, or he's making an absolutely atrocious decision that may help them lose a game. There really isn't much of an in between with him.
Cutler is light years ahead of McCown. Give teams a week or two and they'll figure him out pretty quick.
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In a game like Bears/Skins, with zero defense and up tempo, it's a ton easier for a semi-mobile QB who hasn't been game planned for to come in midway through the second and have success.
Rodgers, even with depleted receivers, is going to destroy the Bears in two weeks.
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That Trent Richardson trade is working out well.
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That Trent Richardson trade is working out well.
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/34198561.jpg)
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My head hurts, why the hell are the Broncos running there?!
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Dish, any chance Bears try and make a trade for a DT?
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Dish, any chance Bears try and make a trade for a DT?
No, not a chance. DT won't turn around their D alone, no one is trading a good DT anyway.
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Kudos to the Lions for finding a new way to lose after all of these years. Get the ball back with 1:40 to play, play conservatively, don't get the second first down to keep moving down the field, have your rookie punter shank a punt, giving the Bengals the ball near midfield with 26 seconds left, two quick completions, 54 yard field goal, ballgame.
Plus Stafford should have just taken the sack and forced Cincy to call their final timeout before getting the ball back. Getting the ball back with 1:40 to go, getting a first down, not giving up a turnover, and still manage to allow the game winning FG in regulation. It hurt watching that happen in real time, and my brain hurts just thinking about how ridiculously improbable that was.
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No, not a chance. DT won't turn around their D alone, no one is trading a good DT anyway.
I know it wouldn't fix the problems on D, just thought it would be a start.
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Finley in ICU at hospital with neck injury.
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Bears are done. Even without Cutler injury, that defense got really bad, really fast. Even if they got into the playoffs it isn't going to matter.
Packers seem to be the opposite, where their defense is looking legitimately good after stinking on ice the last couple years. They are really strong up front.
Twitter now seems to be saying that Finley "is going to be fine." Can't help but have some doubts though. That's a pretty scary injury. Losing him would be a massive loss.
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And I am not sure what "going to be fine" really means. Fine by next week? Fine by the end of the season? Fine to live a normal life outside of football like Nick Collins?
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What a difference a year makes on the perceived importance of Finley. Seemed many fans were ready to run him out of town last year.
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What a difference a year makes on the perceived importance of Finley. Seemed many fans were ready to run him out of town last year.
It is amazing what happens when you "mostly" shut up and just play.
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It is amazing what happens when you "mostly" shut up and just play.
And stop dropping the ball.
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What's funny about the Bears (to me at least) is I had no feel whatsoever for them going into the year, and even through the first few weeks. Overall which (I should have known) meant they had 8-8 written all over them.
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Bears are done. Even without Cutler injury, that defense got really bad, really fast. Even if they got into the playoffs it isn't going to matter.
Packers seem to be the opposite, where their defense is looking legitimately good after stinking on ice the last couple years. They are really strong up front.
Twitter now seems to be saying that Finley "is going to be fine." Can't help but have some doubts though. That's a pretty scary injury. Losing him would be a massive loss.
Defensively, it all starts up front for the Bears (and for all Cover-2 teams). Their lack of depth on D has been completely exposed. They were already thin on the d-line before Melton got injured, now they're playing guys off the street, Wootton out of position and a not-fully-healthy Stephen Paea. All the o-line attention is going to Peppers who has lost a step anyway and McClellin is looking more and more like a bust (primarily because he's miscast as an every down DE). They didn't have much depth at corner either and their best DB (Tillman) hasn't been able to stay on the field and they lost their starting nickelback in the preseason. I never thought I'd see Cutler go down and have the Bears' D be a bigger concern than Josh McCown. The Bears next 3 games are at GB, vs. Detroit and vs. Baltimore. With a bad, injured D and a back-up QB, 4-3 could become 4-6 very quickly.
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Defensively, it all starts up front for the Bears (and for all Cover-2 teams). Their lack of depth on D has been completely exposed. They were already thin on the d-line before Melton got injured, now they're playing guys off the street, Wootton out of position and a not-fully-healthy Stephen Paea. All the o-line attention is going to Peppers who has lost a step anyway and McClellin is looking more and more like a bust (primarily because he's miscast as an every down DE). They didn't have much depth at corner either and their best DB (Tillman) hasn't been able to stay on the field and they lost their starting nickelback in the preseason. I never thought I'd see Cutler go down and have the Bears' D be a bigger concern than Josh McCown. The Bears next 3 games are at GB, vs. Detroit and vs. Baltimore. With a bad, injured D and a back-up QB, 4-3 could become 4-6 very quickly.
And still jackasses on the radio were attributing it in some capacity to Cutler last night and hoping for a good draft pick to draft someone out of this QB class. I'm as big of Bears fan as you can be and I still can't listen to post-loss radio without almost having a coronary.
Yesterday was frustrating, the rest of the season will be even moreso depending on the length of time Cutler is out. And like Merritt said, its weird having the D be a bigger issue, but I hope it is heavily addressed in the offseason as I'm more content with the offense than I've been in a LONG time.
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And still jackasses on the radio were attributing it in some capacity to Cutler last night and hoping for a good draft pick to draft someone out of this QB class.
Well, to be fair, that is something they have to consider regardless of what happens the rest of this year. They will likely franchise him, but they have a tough decision coming up. This injury certainly isn't going to make it any easier.
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What a day of wreckage yesterday. Bradford, Wayne, Doug Martin, Leon Hall, Cushing, all done for the year. Probably will add Cutler to that list shortly as well. TBD on Finley.
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What a day of wreckage yesterday. Bradford, Wayne, Doug Martin, Leon Hall, Cushing, all done for the year. Probably will add Cutler to that list shortly as well. TBD on Finley.
If Cutler really is finished for the year, it would be nice if the Bears had a young QB that they could throw out there to see if he could play.
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If Cutler really is finished for the year, it would be nice if the Bears had a young QB that they could throw out there to see if he could play.
Would be interesting if Freeman was available to them today.
Vikes are basically giving him a tryout. The Bears could do something similar and it would give them some options in the off season with Cutler.
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Would be interesting if Freeman was available to them today.
Vikes are basically giving him a tryout. The Bears could do something similar and it would give them some options in the off season with Cutler.
Tebow
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Tebow
I'm lighting myself on fire now.
BTW, Briggs out 4-6 weeks.
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It is amazing what happens when you "mostly" shut up and just play.
And stop dropping the ball.
And when you lose your #2 and #3 WRs. Finley's versatility was a big help the past couple weeks.
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BTW, Briggs out 4-6 weeks.
Bad. Briggs lined up the D and was the clear leader. If Tillman can't play, I have no idea who will lead the D now.
Dish - will Greene get the minutes in place of Briggs? If so, could be good to get the rookie some minutes
Dish - Also, michael wright just tweeted that there will be roster moves shortly. any ideas?
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Radio reporting 4 weeks for Cutler.
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Radio reporting 4 weeks for Cutler.
Mis-leading, there is zero chance he's back in 4 weeks. None.
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It looks like Greene and Bostic will be starting.
McCown will be the QB, I think he will do OK - as in all he will do is run the system efficiently.
It doesn't matter who the QB is, you can't rebuild a defense mid-year and with Briggs out - the D won't be stopping anyone.
Trestman news conference happening soon (now) with Emery to follow. I guess we'll find out about these "roster changes".
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Bad. Briggs lined up the D and was the clear leader. If Tillman can't play, I have no idea who will lead the D now.
Dish - will Greene get the minutes in place of Briggs? If so, could be good to get the rookie some minutes
Dish - Also, michael wright just tweeted that there will be roster moves shortly. any ideas?
Roster change is Palmer signing.
Most likely Greene, they have the bye to look at street FA's, but stick a fork in the Bears, they're done.
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Mis-leading, there is zero chance he's back in 4 weeks. None.
Tribune now reporting at least 4 weeks.
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Magical season for the Vikes! Skol Vikings! Big win on tap
for tonight. Enjoy watching us tonight.
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Tribune now reporting at least 4 weeks.
What sucks is that when he's potentially back in 6 weeks, it's going to be an onslaught of stupidity about how Cutler was late coming back from injury, didn't want to play, can't play hurt, blah blah
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Well, to be fair, that is something they have to consider regardless of what happens the rest of this year. They will likely franchise him, but they have a tough decision coming up. This injury certainly isn't going to make it any easier.
This actually could work out quite well for Cutler.
Often, people don't appreciate what they have until they no longer have it.
After McCown (predictably) reverts to his norm, Cutler will look even better in absentia.
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Tebow
To replace LB D.J. Williams, right?
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What sucks is that when he's potentially back in 6 weeks, it's going to be an onslaught of stupidity about how Cutler was late coming back from injury, didn't want to play, can't play hurt, blah blah
In the meantime McCown has a couple good games, and he is anointed as the next great Bears QB....just like Caleb Hanie.
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Correction, Hanie had 1 good half.
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Defensively, it all starts up front for the Bears (and for all Cover-2 teams). Their lack of depth on D has been completely exposed. They were already thin on the d-line before Melton got injured, now they're playing guys off the street, Wootton out of position and a not-fully-healthy Stephen Paea. All the o-line attention is going to Peppers who has lost a step anyway and McClellin is looking more and more like a bust (primarily because he's miscast as an every down DE). They didn't have much depth at corner either and their best DB (Tillman) hasn't been able to stay on the field and they lost their starting nickelback in the preseason. I never thought I'd see Cutler go down and have the Bears' D be a bigger concern than Josh McCown. The Bears next 3 games are at GB, vs. Detroit and vs. Baltimore. With a bad, injured D and a back-up QB, 4-3 could become 4-6 very quickly.
We feel so bad for you.
Sincerely,
Packers fans of 2010 and 2013
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Tebow
go unnatural carnal knowledge yourself.
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If its a groin tear, see you next year, Cutler.
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This MNF game has been disgusting to watch.
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Freeman is making Ponder look exciting.
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"This MNF game has been great!"
-Thurs night football
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Time for Ponder.
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Josh Freeman clearly just needed a change of scenery/coach/team/jersey color/whatever
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Worst game ever?
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Worst game ever?
In all seriousness, it actually might be.
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Maybe Josh Freeman isn't the answer.
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5 years, $45M (17.8 guaranteed) for Greg Jennings.
Cap numbers are $7M next year and $11M in 2015, 16, and 17.
Ouch.
In a way, he is still a great asset to the Packers!
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"Can't wait for Vikes/Pack!"
-No One
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"Can't wait for Vikes/Pack!"
-No One
Freeman was so bad that I am actually interested in watching him play again. He makes Joe Schmo believe he can throw the pigskin around an NFL field. :D
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Magical season for the Vikes! Skol Vikings! Big win on tap
for tonight. Enjoy watching us tonight.
Magical.
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Worst game ever?
Honestly, games like this one are a good reason they should be able to change the Monday Night football game each week if it looks to be a poor matchup.
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That is just not logistically/fiscally possible to do on a weekly basis.
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We feel so bad for you.
Sincerely,
Packers fans of 2010 and 2013
The Packers actually have/had depth. That's the difference.
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How did the Vikings get so many primetime games this year? SKOL!
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5 years, $45M (17.8 guaranteed) for Greg Jennings.
Cap numbers are $7M next year and $11M in 2015, 16, and 17.
Ouch.
In a way, he is still a great asset to the Packers!
He will be cut long before the end of that contract.
He had three starting quarterbacks in his seven years in Green Bay, a number he equaled in his sixth game in Minnesota.
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BXJlJYSIMAA4mG9.jpg:large
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Lions fans are not allowed to ever talk smack about how bad another team is. But if I were, it would be...... LOL, Vikings!
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Almost had 'em last night!
Nice tune up for Josh. Looks like he's just one week away.
What an incredible comeback story for him and the team this will be!
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The Packers actually have/had depth. That's the difference.
If by had depth you mean taking unsigned free agents like Erich Walden and Frank zombie and starting them throughout a Super Bowl run then I agree with you.
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The 2010 Packers' injury issues were way overrated. Rodgers started 15 games. Driver, Jones, Nelson and Jennings missed a grand total of one game between them all. Four of the five OL started all year, and Bulaga started the year on the bench but started 12 games after Tauscher got hurt. Of the entire defense, all but one position had the same starter 12+ games including Matthews, Collins, Tramon, Woodson and BJ starting all 16.
Yeah, they had a lot of guys on IR, but many of those weren't terribly important and they overlapped the same position. Probably the most significant injury that significantly downgraded a position was Jermichael Finley.
This year is much much worse.
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If by had depth you mean taking unsigned free agents like Erich Walden and Frank zombie and starting them throughout a Super Bowl run then I agree with you.
Walden only started 2 games that season but went on to start 25 games over the next 2 seasons. IOW, he became a starter. Zombo had 5 tackles and a sack in the SB. When starters go down and back-ups fill the void, that's called depth.
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He will be cut long before the end of that contract.
He had three starting quarterbacks in his seven years in Green Bay, a number he equaled in his sixth game in Minnesota.
He will be cut before the end of that contract, but that guaranteed money isn't coming off their salary cap. What do expect when the vikings business plan is to sign packer rejects just to piss off packer fans.
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Walden only started 2 games that season but went on to start 25 games over the next 2 seasons. IOW, he became a starter. Zombo had 5 tackles and a sack in the SB. When starters go down and back-ups fill the void, that's called depth.
its more than just depth. You have to credit the Packer coaching staff for developing these guys and keeping the ship afloat through the injuries.
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Almost had 'em last night!
Nice tune up for Josh. Looks like he's just one week away.
What an incredible comeback story for him and the team this will be!
you say that about your johnson too, a'ina?
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That is just not logistically/fiscally possible to do on a weekly basis.
You are right. I didn't take into consideration the logistics of it all. From a fan perspective it is just unfortunate that it is not possible.
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He will be cut before the end of that contract, but that guaranteed money isn't coming off their salary cap. What do expect when the vikings business plan is to sign packer rejects just to piss off packer fans.
Or "attempt to."
By this point I think most Packer fans view it as more of a "little brother syndrome" than anything else.
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How do you Packer fans feel about TE Brandon Bostick? Think he gets an increased role with Finley out. From what I hear he has potential - tons of athleticism, big body, and a former college basketball player. I'm in a deep fantasy football dynasty league and I'm thinking about taking a chance stashing him on my bench. We've already seen Julius Thomas and Jordan Reed break out this year, and this guy seems like the same type of player.
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How do you Packer fans feel about TE Brandon Bostick? Think he gets an increased role with Finley out. From what I hear he has potential - tons of athleticism, big body, and a former college basketball player. I'm in a deep fantasy football dynasty league and I'm thinking about taking a chance stashing him on my bench. We've already seen Julius Thomas and Jordan Reed break out this year, and this guy seems like the same type of player.
I would think you'd see him for a few plays here and there. But you gotta think that Quarless is going to get a ton of time at TE, and depending on the status of James Jones, you are likely going to see a lot of 3 WR sets with Jones, Boykin and Nelson.
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I would think you'd see him for a few plays here and there. But you gotta think that Quarless is going to get a ton of time at TE, and depending on the status of James Jones, you are likely going to see a lot of 3 WR sets with Jones, Boykin and Nelson.
+1 also, don't count out Stoneburner and Ryan Taylor... with Taylor getting more time than Bostick
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Is Taylor available given his surgery last week?
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Is Taylor available given his surgery last week?
Oh, totally didn't know he had surgery, so probably not. :-D
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Almost had 'em last night!
Nice tune up for Josh. Looks like he's just one week away.
What an incredible comeback story for him and the team this will be!
looks like more than a week now that Frazier is pencilling in Ponder for the QB carousel
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http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/228965551.html
Lol. Now that you're 1-5 and averaging about 50 yards per game with 2 total touchdowns on the season you back away from your comments going into the Packers game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzU8ycQkeI4
He is all that is man.
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looks like more than a week now that Frazier is pencilling in Ponder for the QB carousel
Yeah, I'm a bit surprised. Freeman looked poised for a huge week. Either way, we should win by 10+ points. SKOL VIKINGS!
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Bee Jay you picking up where this guy left off and continuing the tradition?
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/longtime-fan-vowed-not-shave-beard-until-vikings-173155806--nfl.html
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How do you Packer fans feel about TE Brandon Bostick?
I thought he was tremendous as Brad in Rocky Horror Picture Show. And he even got to canoodle with a young, extremely sexy Susan Sarandon (and Tim Curry).
Oh wait ... that was Barry Bostwick.
Never mind.
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How did the cowboys lose that one??
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How did the cowboys lose that one??
2 teams that love to choke - one of them had to do it.
Idiotic holding penalty on a meaningless play cost Cowboys the game
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2 teams that love to choke - one of them had to do it.
Idiotic holding penalty on a meaningless play cost Cowboys the game
While that did significantly affect the outcome, letting a guy go wide open down the sidelines with less than a minute left and standing around watching as Stafford runs a QB sneak really did them in.
Cowboys historically are poorly focused, not sure if that is a coaching issue or an attitude issue (based on the type of players they draft).
It was fun watching Dez Bryant throw a temper tantrum after the game. I really hate that guy.
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How did the cowboys lose that one??
It's what we do. Last 18 years, .500. LOL. I just watch is every week to see how we blow it this week.
JJ as general manager, way over paying top players gives team no depth. Been the issue for almost two decades now. Horrible defense...again. Is what it is.
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I didn't watch, but guys in the class I was in followed it on their smartphones during breaks. I had to triple check that it was the Lions WINNING with 12 seconds left. Completely out of character for this franchise.
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JJ as general manager, way over paying top players gives team no depth. Been the issue for almost two decades now. Horrible defense...again. Is what it is.
He's kinda reminding me of an old Al Davis
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I didn't watch, but guys in the class I was in followed it on their smartphones during breaks. I had to triple check that it was the Lions WINNING with 12 seconds left. Completely out of character for this franchise.
Detroit had 625 offense yards to Dallas 268
Stafford threw for 488 yards
Johnson had 329 yards receiving (second all time)
Only reason it was close was 4 ugly turnovers (2 int, 2 fumbles) by Detroit which lead to I believe 21 Dallas points.
Exciting game to watch, sorry you missed it as a Lion's fan.
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I think the Packers struggle tonight. This game will be within seven either way. I just don't think that they have enough in the WR era to sustain drives, and I think AP gets the ball a ton and makes a difference.
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I think the Packers struggle tonight. This game will be within seven either way. I just don't think that they have enough in the WR era to sustain drives, and I think AP gets the ball a ton and makes a difference.
I think the defense outscores the passing game. Lacy and Kuhn combine for 3 TDs.
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Pack by 10, as beat up as they are, Vikes are still really bad.
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Stack the box and make Ponder beat ya.
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Yo BeeJay, what's up Bro?
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Yo BeeJay, what's up Bro?
BeeJay is lucky the Sunday Night Football is competing for viewers/ratings with the World Series. Refs just put 7 on the board for the Vikings to end the half. They need the points for TV ratings. Coincidence that the ref who threw the flag originally called it an incomplete pass before throwing the flag 5 seconds later?
But hey, that was a cute start to the game. At least gave Minnesota fans a little bit of excitement.
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SKOL VIKINGS!
At some point a third down conversion will fail.
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By product of the injuries on offense is allowing Lacy to grow into his role in the offense. Haven't see this good of a balance from the Pack in a while.
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SKOL VIKINGS!
At some point a third down conversion will fail.
Only to go to 4th down, where they are better tonight.
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By product of the injuries on offense is allowing Lacy to grow into his role in the offense. Haven't see this good of a balance from the Pack in a while.
Agreed. It is AWESOME to know we don't have to put 35+ on the board to win games. We can now win games by scoring, but we can also win by controlling the clock and letting our defense keep teams out of the end zone. If Lacey stays healthy, he is a complete steal.
By the way, the Packers are just toying with the Vikings defense. "Hey guys, let's take this to 3rd and medium just to get the crowd interested and then pick it up." ~ Aaron Rodgers
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Pack are going to be interesting in January. They'll end up hosting on wild card weekend, and getting Matthews back and Jones on offense, they'll be a tough out.
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Hosting one of: Sea/SF, Det, or maybe Chi or Car. (Big maybe)
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They just gave an amazing stat. Pickett, Kuhn, and Seneca Wallace are the only 3 players on the Packers 53 man roster that have played on any team other than the Packers in their career. No other team has even 40 of their 53 players who haven't played elsewhere.
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Pack are going to be interesting in January. They'll end up hosting on wild card weekend, and getting Matthews back and Jones on offense, they'll be a tough out.
The key will be their defense again, not the offense. Can they stop a good team when it matters? The schedule is so soft, could easily see them going 13-3.
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Yeah...I was wrong about this.
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Yeah...I was wrong about this.
As was I
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Nice to see you dudes takin' your comeuppance like men.
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When did Greg Jennings retire?
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We need Favre.
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If I were the Vikes, and I got any substantial offer for either Allen or AP, I'd make the deal. If I were the Cowboys, I'd do a reverse Herschel deal.
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We need Favre.
That'd be a start. He still has more chemistry with Greg Jennings than any of the 3 QBs Minni has now.
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Heck, Vince Young played for the Packers and is looking for a job. He fills the requirements of a Vikings player. Give him a shot
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Maybe the real Matty Ice? Matt Flynn.
But hey I gotta give the Queens some credit. If you want to put a competitive team on the field and have a shot at making the Playoffs, you might as well take a winning organization's sloppy 2nds. At least those guys know how to win. You may never overtake the real organization, but at least you can win some games. I wish the Brewers would do this more with Cardinals players (especially pitchers). Kyle Lohse was great for us. Anyone we being up on our own? Not gonna work out.
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I wish the Brewers would do this more with Cardinals players (especially pitchers). Kyle Lohse was great for us. Anyone we being up on our own? Not gonna work out.
Lohse was first a Twin.
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I wish the Brewers would do this more with Cardinals players (especially pitchers). Kyle Lohse was great for us. Anyone we being up on our own? Not gonna work out.
didn't work out well with Suppan
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Pack are going to be interesting in January. They'll end up hosting on wild card weekend, and getting Matthews back and Jones on offense, they'll be a tough out.
The Packers' D is better without Matthews. They have 11 guys filling their roles as opposed to 10 guys filling their roles and 1 guy focused only on rushing the passer.
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The Packers' D is better without Matthews. They have 11 guys filling their roles as opposed to 10 guys filling their roles and 1 guy focused only on rushing the passer.
I don't necessarily agree with that. They are very strong and deep up front, which is I think what you're seeing now. Once Matthews comes back, they are going to be able to use him however they want. The play they are getting from the LBs is a result of how well the guys up front are playing. Assuming they stay healthy, I would expect they'll be that much tougher when he returns.
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BTW, what was up with Al Michaels talking about the trade deadline this week - saying "I think Adrian Peterson is safe?" Well no kidding. The NFL trade deadline isn't like the MLB trade deadline. It is a complete non-event.
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The Packers' D is better without Matthews. They have 11 guys filling their roles as opposed to 10 guys filling their roles and 1 guy focused only on rushing the passer.
Oh come on. Since Matthews injury two of the three teams they have played have been quarterbacked by Brandon Weeden and Christian Ponder. Hardly the type of offenses that are going to make defenses pay.
And Matthews does way more than rush the passer.
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They just gave an amazing stat. Pickett, Kuhn, and Seneca Wallace are the only 3 players on the Packers 53 man roster that have played on any team other than the Packers in their career. No other team has even 40 of their 53 players who haven't played elsewhere.
And Pickett was signed in 2006....Kuhn in 2007.
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Oh come on. Since Matthews injury two of the three teams they have played have been quarterbacked by Brandon Weeden and Christian Ponder. Hardly the type of offenses that are going to make defenses pay.
And Matthews does way more than rush the passer.
Not much.
He's similar to Troy Polamalu. He does his own thing (presumably with the DC's blessing) and makes big plays from time to time but also finds himself out of position just as often, if not more.
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Oh come on. Since Matthews injury two of the three teams they have played have been quarterbacked by Brandon Weeden and Christian Ponder. Hardly the type of offenses that are going to make defenses pay.
And Matthews does way more than rush the passer.
The other one was Flacco who I thought was going to tear up the GB defense. A good RB, good OL, and deep threats, but GB defense actually looked strong in that one. Granted Flacco has been a bum for most of this year.
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Not much.
He's similar to Troy Polamalu. He does his own thing (presumably with the DC's blessing) and makes big plays from time to time but also finds himself out of position just as often, if not more.
My guess is that the Packers coaches know a little more about this stuff than you do - and they seem to think he's a pretty good player.
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Not much.
He's similar to Troy Polamalu. He does his own thing (presumably with the DC's blessing) and makes big plays from time to time but also finds himself out of position just as often, if not more.
You are way off base. Maybe research what actual experts think and then make a more informed comment
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My guess is that the Packers coaches know a little more about this stuff than you do - and they seem to think he's a pretty good player.
Where did I say that he wasn't a good player? He's very good at rushing the passer, but he's below average in coverage, he's not very good against the run and teams know that more times than not, he's going all out to get to the QB and can take advantage of that. Like I said about Polamalu, he takes chances which lead to "highlight" plays but this strategy also leads to him being out of position.
In the last 2 seasons (playoffs included), the Packers are 6-1 without him and 11-7 with him. I understand SOS and sample size factor in to those numbers, but those are still the numbers.
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Where did I say that he wasn't a good player? He's very good at rushing the passer, but he's below average in coverage, he's not very good against the run and teams know that more times than not, he's going all out to get to the QB and can take advantage of that. Like I said about Polamalu, he takes chances which lead to "highlight" plays but this strategy also leads to him being out of position.
In the last 2 seasons (playoffs included), the Packers are 6-1 without him and 11-7 with him. I understand SOS and sample size factor in to those numbers, but those are still the numbers.
Then I go with Hairy's suggestion that you simply watch more of the games.
Because the games he missed last year were two games against the 4-12 Lions, the Vikings game at Lambeau, and the game where the Packers got crushed against the New York Giants. I don't know if you recall that last game, but the Packers defense was terrible...couldn't get off the field and no pass rush.
The Packers have been extremely fortunate to have him injured during relatively weak stretches of both seasons.
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The other one was Flacco who I thought was going to tear up the GB defense. A good RB, good OL, and deep threats, but GB defense actually looked strong in that one. Granted Flacco has been a bum for most of this year.
One of the best paid bums in the world, no doubt!
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One of the best paid bums in the world, no doubt!
True.
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Ted Thompson is known for over-paying players for sure
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Going to be interesting to see how many people are in the stands for the Rams game tonight...with the Cardinals playing in the WS just a mile or so away.
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I don't know how many people will be there cheering on the Rams, but I can promise you they will be cheering the right way.
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This game has been horrendous.
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This game has been horrendous.
Shocking. What good Thursday/Sunday/Monday Night Football games have there been this year? Not many.
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This is also exactly why I am not one bit scared of the Seahawks, whatsoever. Sure, Russell Wilson can make a few plays based on his athleticism that other quarterbacks cannot make, which may extend a drive here or there. But Russell Wilson is not going to go out and win you a game against a top notch team when he needs to. He's a quarterback who manages the game. He's not a quarterback who's going to make an efficient 3 minute scoring drive down 10 with 7 minutes to play or lead a comeback from down 14. The Seahawks D carries them and allows their offense to just control the football. In the Playoffs their defense will give up some points and their offense will need to respond. I don't think they can against the likes of the Packers and Saints who can just keep putting up points. And I know, they smoked the 9ers. But the 9ers were not playing well in the first 4-5 weeks of the season. I think the 9ers would lay it on them the way they're playing now. Maybe I'll eat my words. I sure hope not, Pete Carroll is one of a VERY few human beings who may be as big of a douche as Tom Crean.
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That was perhaps one of the worst sequence of football. Ever.
Replay, penalty, penalty, penalty.
Just awful.
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This is also exactly why I am not one bit scared of the Seahawks, whatsoever. Sure, Russell Wilson can make a few plays based on his athleticism that other quarterbacks cannot make, which may extend a drive here or there. But Russell Wilson is not going to go out and win you a game against a top notch team when he needs to. He's a quarterback who manages the game. He's not a quarterback who's going to make an efficient 3 minute scoring drive down 10 with 7 minutes to play or lead a comeback from down 14. The Seahawks D carries them and allows their offense to just control the football. In the Playoffs their defense will give up some points and their offense will need to respond. I don't think they can against the likes of the Packers and Saints who can just keep putting up points. And I know, they smoked the 9ers. But the 9ers were not playing well in the first 4-5 weeks of the season. I think the 9ers would lay it on them the way they're playing now. Maybe I'll eat my words. I sure hope not, Pete Carroll is one of a VERY few human beings who may be as big of a douche as Tom Crean.
Players love him. Amazing, isn't it
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Players love him. Amazing, isn't it
Well I'll give the guy 1 thing, he sure knows when to get out. Must've just been a coincidence that Carroll left USC the year the NCAA was going to lay down the hammer on him. He's a complete scumbag, whether or not other rich scumbags like to play for him or not.
Also just look at the picture of him calling the touchdown along with the ref after the "Fail Mary" was reviewed. Seriously? I wouldn't even expect that out of a college player, let alone an NFL coach. Very childish. Especially when he absolutely knows it was the completely wrong call. Can you imagine Mike McCarthy doing that? Think Tony Dungy ever would've done that? Bill Bellicheck? Mike Tomlin? Andy Reid? Hell no. Only absolute tools would do something like that. I can think of only 3 NFL coaches who would do that. Rex Ryan, Pete Carroll, and Jim Harbough. All complete douche bags. Not even John Harbough would consider doing that.
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Thank god that crap is over. Awful time management by Carroll, awful play call to end the game. Play action probably wins it.
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Well I'll give the guy 1 thing, he sure knows when to get out. Must've just been a coincidence that Carroll left USC the year the NCAA was going to lay down the hammer on him. He's a complete scumbag, whether or not other rich scumbags like to play for him or not.
Also just look at the picture of him calling the touchdown along with the ref after the "Fail Mary" was reviewed. Seriously? I wouldn't even expect that out of a college player, let alone an NFL coach. Very childish. Especially when he absolutely knows it was the completely wrong call. Can you imagine Mike McCarthy doing that? Think Tony Dungy ever would've done that? Bill Bellicheck? Mike Tomlin? Andy Reid? Hell no. Only absolute tools would do something like that. I can think of only 3 NFL coaches who would do that. Rex Ryan, Pete Carroll, and Jim Harbough. All complete douche bags. Not even John Harbough would consider doing that.
Actually poor college kids liked to play for him, too. Look, I don't care for him, but I always find it interesting that people who have never met these people call them dbags and people that actually know these guys, played for them, basically had to spend years of their existence with them have a different opinion.
I can imagine Bil Bellicheck cheating...because he has. I didn't watch the game, have no idea what he cheered about or didn't. I guess I need to see the picture you are talking about.
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Actually poor college kids liked to play for him, too. Look, I don't care for him, but I always find it interesting that people who have never met these people call them dbags and people that actually know these guys, played for them, basically had to spend years of their existence with them have a different opinion.
I can imagine Bil Bellicheck cheating...because he has. I didn't watch the game, have no idea what he cheered about or didn't. I guess I need to see the picture you are talking about.
Poor college kids who had to take a paycut to go to the NFL when Pete Carroll was coaching them at USC. Cheating and leaving as you're about to be caught = scumbag douche bag. Bill Bellicheck was a bad comparison you're right because he's a scumbag as well, but at least he sticks around to see his punishment and fixes the problem.
The picture is at the bottom of this page. Just before it was taken he was helping the ref make the touchdown call right next to him. Tool. Kinda reminds me of college basketball coaches who run up to assistants after big wins and exclaim, "THAT'S HOW YOU WIN AT INDIANA!" Only to see the other team go on to the National Championship game while Indiana's number 1 seeded team bows out in the Sweet 16, before the school he left (just like every year but 1, in which he made it just as far).
http://smokingsection.uproxx.com/TSS/2012/09/packers-seahawks-monday-night-football
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Some combo of these four teams (barring injuries) will be in the Super Bowl.
Broncos, Bengals, Saints, Packers
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Poor college kids who had to take a paycut to go to the NFL when Pete Carroll was coaching them at USC. Cheating and leaving as you're about to be caught = scumbag douche bag. Bill Bellicheck was a bad comparison you're right because he's a scumbag as well, but at least he sticks around to see his punishment and fixes the problem.
The picture is at the bottom of this page. Just before it was taken he was helping the ref make the touchdown call right next to him. Tool. Kinda reminds me of college basketball coaches who run up to assistants after big wins and exclaim, "THAT'S HOW YOU WIN AT INDIANA!" Only to see the other team go on to the National Championship game while Indiana's number 1 seeded team bows out in the Sweet 16, before the school he left (just like every year but 1, in which he made it just as far).
http://smokingsection.uproxx.com/TSS/2012/09/packers-seahawks-monday-night-football
Oh, from that game. Eh, I can see why Packers fans get upset, but it's the heat of the moment stuff. Let me guess, I'll bet WVU fans weren't too excited about a coach dancing on their logo to their song after a win in their gym and probably called the coach a douche, etc, etc. Sound familiar? Bueller...Bueller? ;)
As for the paycut thing, who knows. Again, I just find it interesting what people know about others who they have never met, while those that spend years with them feel entirely different. It is just interesting to me.
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Some combo of these four teams (barring injuries) will be in the Super Bowl.
Broncos, Bengals, Saints, Packers
Can I get in on that action?
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Can I get in on that action?
Absolutely. Who ya got?
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Absolutely. Who ya got?
I'm going with the field, not those four. ;D
I don't think the Packers defense can make it that far. Bengals, not with Dalton. Broncos, yes they have a shot but they have more holes than folks think. Saints...could be a sleeper...not a bad pick. I think a lot of folks are burying the 9ers too early. Colts are interesting, but probably a year or so away. Seattle inconsistent, but talent is there. Dark horse pick through midseason would be Panthers.
At the end of the day, I think it's way too early. Look at the teams at week 8 that were winning last year. Bears? Denver? Houston? Green Bay? Giants? A lot of teams that when it came time to punch the ticket, couldn't do it...some couldn't even make it to the playoffs.
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I'm going with the field, not those four. ;D
I don't think the Packers defense can make it that far. Bengals, not with Dalton. Broncos, yes they have a shot but they have more holes than folks think. Saints...could be a sleeper...not a bad pick. I think a lot of folks are burying the 9ers too early. Colts are interesting, but probably a year or so away. Seattle inconsistent, but talent is there. Dark horse pick through midseason would be Panthers.
At the end of the day, I think it's way too early. Look at the teams at week 8 that were winning last year. Bears? Denver? Houston? Green Bay? Giants? A lot of teams that when it came time to punch the ticket, couldn't do it...some couldn't even make it to the playoffs.
I gathered you didn't want any of those four.
This year isn't last year. I'll grant you possibly the Panthers, but no one else.
Between KC, Indy, Sea, SF, their passing games rank 25, 21, 22, 31. Trend is not their friend going forward in January.
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I gathered you didn't want any of those four.
This year isn't last year. I'll grant you possibly the Panthers, but no one else.
Between KC, Indy, Sea, SF, their passing games rank 25, 21, 22, 31. Trend is not their friend going forward in January.
I don't buy KC either. As for the others, a lot of that has to do with who they are playing. Indy has beaten Denver, SF, and Seattle. That's fairly impressive. SF beat GB. Etc. Hard to pick this year, no teams are truly great....at least not yet. Should be a fun second half. If GB can get their defense going, they have the talent, won't quibble with you there. The schedule is so soft, not sure how anyone will know until the playoffs begin.
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I don't buy KC either. As for the others, a lot of that has to do with who they are playing. Indy has beaten Denver, SF, and Seattle. That's fairly impressive. SF beat GB. Etc. Hard to pick this year, no teams are truly great....at least not yet. Should be a fun second half. If GB can get their defense going, they have the talent, won't quibble with you there. The schedule is so soft, not sure how anyone will know until the playoffs begin.
Sounds like a crap shoot.
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Sounds like a crap shoot.
Anytime it is one game, it's a crapshoot, but much less than the NCAA tournament....the biggest crapshoot in all of sports. Best team often doesn't win the whole thing.
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I don't think the Packers defense can make it that far.
even with all of the starters currently out on D GB is ranked 11th overall and most likely to improve
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2013&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1
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Huh? Did you pay any attention to what they did in the offseason? They're entire offensive scheme was built around shuffling the offensive line. That's a massive injury in terms of their planning, it's 100% ignorant to think otherwise.
Packers on a 4 game winning streak and running game is 4th in the NFL. Yeah, I was ignorant all right. Apology accepted.
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Packers on a 4 game winning streak and running game is 4th in the NFL. Yeah, I was ignorant all right. Apology accepted.
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but
Detroit, Baltimore, Cleveland, Minnesota. Only team above .500 is Detroit, and they could easily be 3-5 instead of 5-3... two plays away.
Take away point is 4 game streak against bad teams.
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I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but
Detroit, Baltimore, Cleveland, Minnesota. Only team above .500 is Detroit, and they could easily be 3-5 instead of 5-3... two plays away.
Take away point is 4 game streak against bad teams.
And in addition to that, the Rushing Defense ranks of their 7 opponents:
1. SF 21
2. WAS 27
3. CIN 12
4. BYE
5. DET 28
6. BAL 8
7. CLE 20
8. MIN 13
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even with all of the starters currently out on D GB is ranked 11th overall and most likely to improve
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2013&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1
I look at who they have played and will play. Green Bay's schedule is horrific. The two best teams they have played, they lost to.
That stat you are using is yards per game, which is a stat I never understood to rank defenses. Should be points per game. In that case, Packers are 16th and when you consider who they have played, I'm not sure that is very impressive.
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I look at who they have played and will play. Green Bay's schedule is horrific. The two best teams they have played, they lost to.
That stat you are using is yards per game, which is a stat I never understood to rank defenses. Should be points per game. In that case, Packers are 14th and when you consider who they have played, I'm not sure that is very impressive.
The packers defense is much improved over what it has been the last few years. If you do not believe that you haven't been watching. They gave up maybe five or six touchdowns in garbage time after they were up by several scores to Washington, Detroit and Minnesota. The scoring stat isn't giving you an accurate picture.
It is also the way in which the defense has improved. They are stopping the run and are much more physical on the defensive line. So your argument about the defense not holding up doesn't hold much water.
As far as the schedule, they beat the teams they were supposed to, handily and they were significantly short handed. Their losses were to good teams, super bowl quality teams, on the road, both of which they could have easily won, especially Cincy. Look around at the other good team's schedule. There are a lot of crappy teams in the nfl.
I think the jury is still out, but the packers are trending in the right direction. They are stopping the run and running the ball effectively, 2 things that go a long way come playoff time.
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And in addition to that, the Rushing Defense ranks of their 7 opponents:
1. SF 21
2. WAS 27
3. CIN 12
4. BYE
5. DET 28
6. BAL 8
7. CLE 20
8. MIN 13
Here is something to keep you busy. Take the top 15 running teams in the nfl and do the same analysis of their opponents rushing defense, then get back to me.
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The packers defense is much improved over what it has been the last few years. If you do not believe that you haven't been watching. They gave up maybe five or six touchdowns in garbage time after they were up by several scores to Washington, Detroit and Minnesota. The scoring stat isn't giving you an accurate picture.
It is also the way in which the defense has improved. They are stopping the run and are much more physical on the defensive line. So your argument about the defense not holding up doesn't hold much water.
As far as the schedule, they beat the teams they were supposed to, handily and they were significantly short handed. Their losses were to good teams, super bowl quality teams, on the road, both of which they could have easily won, especially Cincy. Look around at the other good team's schedule. There are a lot of crappy teams in the nfl.
I think the jury is still out, but the packers are trending in the right direction. They are stopping the run and running the ball effectively, 2 things that go a long way come playoff time.
I agree with you that there are a lot of crappy teams, which is why they certainly have a chance. Other teams have key players out as well, so the injury thing I never buy into.
Yes, the defense looks improved but that is often an inverse of who you are playing. GB definitely has the offense to win it all, I'm just not sold on the defense.
At the end of the year, how many teams with a winning record will GB play? I'm guessing for a division winner (I expect them to win the division), they will have the easiest schedule in the league, even moreso than the NFC East winner since they had to play the AFC West, the toughest division in football this year. Hard to get a handle on GB with the opposition they are playing.
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Packers on a 4 game winning streak and running game is 4th in the NFL. Yeah, I was ignorant all right. Apology accepted.
MUDish was correct in his statement at the time. However, I said that the Packers had enough time to fix the problem and the emergence of Bhaktiari will help. At the time, no one knew how Bulaga would do at left tackle and Barclay played right tackle in 2012 and Newhouse left tackle in 2012 so they would at least be no worse than last year.
You have to credit the coaching staff for developing these guys.
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Adding Lacy didn't add to your running attack. Sure, he'll maybe get ten touches a game, but Alabama running backs almost never match their college potential. I think Lacy is more of a product of the Alabama O-Line if anything. But having one of the best offensive lines in college, it made him look a lot better than he really is. Similar to the Hogs of the Washington Redskins. During Super Bowl XXII, one Timmy Smith set the record for most rushing yards in the big game, finishing with 204 yards; one than one third of his NFL career rush yards came from that game. He was a no-name player but his name is now in the history books. I'm not saying Lacy will disappear or be an unknown; I just think you guys have your expectations set a little bit too high for him. He's a product of the Alabama O-line.
I know it's still early in his career, but Lacy is getting more than 10 touches per game and he looks as good behind the packer line as he did behind the bama line.
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I know it's still early in his career, but Lacy is getting more than 10 touches per game and he looks as good behind the packer line as he did behind the bama line.
If the Packers commit to the run, Lacy may go for 200 against the Bears on Monday night.
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If the Packers commit to the run, Lacy may go for 200 against the Bears on Monday night.
I am more worried about AR throwing for 500.
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I am more worried about AR throwing for 500.
Could be both!
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Could be both!
I don't see that game going like that. The bears have more to lose and have had week off to prepare. Lacy is not the type of back to get 200 maybe 200 combined between lacy and Starks.
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I am worried the Bears lose 49-3.
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I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but
Detroit, Baltimore, Cleveland, Minnesota. Only team above .500 is Detroit, and they could easily be 3-5 instead of 5-3... two plays away.
Take away point is 4 game streak against bad teams.
If you want to see a bad schedule, look at the one that KC has played. I think the teams are a combined 20 -41. There are a several teams that would be 7-0 against that schedule.
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If you want to see a bad schedule, look at the one that KC has played. I think the teams are a combined 20 -41. There are a several teams that would be 7-0 against that schedule.
KC has some monster games coming up. Green Bay doesn't for the entire rest of the year. Hard not to see GB go 14-2 or 13-3, quite frankly.
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MUDish was correct in his statement at the time. However, I said that the Packers had enough time to fix the problem and the emergence of Bhaktiari will help. At the time, no one knew how Bulaga would do at left tackle and Barclay played right tackle in 2012 and Newhouse left tackle in 2012 so they would at least be no worse than last year.
You have to credit the coaching staff for developing these guys.
[/quote
]It is not and was not a catastrophic problem if the catastrophe does not occur. If no one knew how Bulaga would do at left tackle, his not playing left tackle can also not be a catastrophe.
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KC has some monster games coming up. Green Bay doesn't for the entire rest of the year. Hard not to see GB go 14-2 or 13-3, quite frankly.
only need 11 to win some cash from my good friend Ceasar and his palace.
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only need 11 to win some cash from my good friend Ceasar and his palace.
Wow, barring a plane crash, you done good. No way they don't hit that.
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MUDish was correct in his statement at the time. However, I said that the Packers had enough time to fix the problem and the emergence of Bhaktiari will help. At the time, no one knew how Bulaga would do at left tackle and Barclay played right tackle in 2012 and Newhouse left tackle in 2012 so they would at least be no worse than last year.
You have to credit the coaching staff for developing these guys.
[/quote
]It is not and was not a catastrophic problem if the catastrophe does not occur. If no one knew how Bulaga would do at left tackle, his not playing left tackle can also not be a catastrophe.
Right, well I am glad you have 20/20 hindsight
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Wow, barring a plane crash, you done good. No way they don't hit that.
now that I've said something, Rodgers leg will probably snap in two at 10 wins. I'm not a big gambler but I also don't lose.
As a side, reinko, I should have bet you on Indy making the playoffs. Looking like a lock in the really bad AFC.
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now that I've said something, Rodgers leg will probably snap in two at 10 wins. I'm not a big gambler but I also don't lose.
As a side, reinko, I should have bet you on Indy making the playoffs. Looking like a lock in the really bad AFC.
I'm not a gambler either but the last time I made a bet was on the Packers going into the 2009-2010 season, months before it I put down the minimum bet on their 9:1 odds to win the 2010 Super Bowl. High roller, baby.
Think I lost my receipt before I even cashed it in.
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now that I've said something, Rodgers leg will probably snap in two at 10 wins. I'm not a big gambler but I also don't lose.
As a side, reinko, I should have bet you on Indy making the playoffs. Looking like a lock in the really bad AFC.
Hards, I got you on a gentleman agreement, when the Colts clinch, a fine New England bomber will be coming your way.
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NBC will flex out of Giants/Packers in Week 11 and go with Chiefs/Broncos instead.
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Maybe the Vikings need to put Ponder in as their running back? Just a thought.
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Was that the Vikings who scored that quick. Where did that drive come from?
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Was that the Vikings who scored that quick. Where did that drive come from?
Have you seen who they are playing? #32 ranked Dallas Cowboys defense.
My team is such a joke. LOL. It's comical watching it week to week.
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Have you seen who they are playing? #32 ranked Dallas Cowboys defense.
My team is such a joke. LOL. It's comical watching it week to week.
An amusing game to watch.
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AP. wow.
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A missed extra point to leave it at a 3 pt game. Minnesota can't do anything right can they.
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An amusing game to watch.
I would never want bodily harm or death to happen to anyone sans someone like Bin Laden, etc....but Jerry Jones has been knocking on that door for me for a long long time. Every team in the world has a GM for a reason, so there is accountability. GM doesn't perform, the owner fires GM. For Dallas, the owner and GM are the same. Would any owner in their right mind keep the same GM around after going 134-139 the last 17 years Of course not.
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Would any owner in their right mind keep the same GM around after going 134-139 the last 17 years Of course not.
See Millen, Matt.
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See Millen, Matt.
The GM prior to the Matt Millen was a guy named Chuck Schmidt. His son works for me. Chuck was fired and Millen hired. Chuck actually helped get the Lions to the playoffs a few times....Millen.....
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Wonder if Foles can use this game the same way Flynn lived off one game?
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I would never want bodily harm or death to happen to anyone sans someone like Bin Laden
Chico
Not sure if you heard but we schwacked the rat bastard a while back
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Chico
Not sure if you heard but we schwacked the rat bastard a while back
Oh, I heard. Though not sure who "we" is, I think only one took credit.
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Oh, I heard. Though not sure who "we" is, I think only one took credit.
can you just remove this before a ton of people reply?
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Crean was there?
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Crean was there?
Haha awesome.
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Vikings would be perfect were it not for Jennings.
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Oh, I heard. Though not sure who "we" is, I think only one took credit.
That was the royal we. SEALs get all the press but they are damn good. But we as a people waited for that moment for almost a decade. The guy cowered behind a woman in his last moments. What a hero.
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Apparently the dolphins knew when it was "enough"
https://twitter.com/68INCOGNITO/status/396998334835351552
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Then there's this:
http://deadspin.com/is-richie-incognitos-dad-blasting-jonathan-martin-on-m-1457997230?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
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And this.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/04/3729152/incognito-dolphins-push-back-against.html
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And more...
http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/super-page/schefter-is-breaking-the-unintentional-comedy-scale-with-these-richie-incognito-voicemail-tweets/
this incognito guy seems like a real sweetheart
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And more...
http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/super-page/schefter-is-breaking-the-unintentional-comedy-scale-with-these-richie-incognito-voicemail-tweets/
this incognito guy seems like a real sweetheart
Goes on with many teams, part of the culture of the NFL and to some extent other sports as well.
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Goes on with many teams, part of the culture of the NFL and to some extent other sports as well.
And what is your opinion of it?
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And what is your opinion of it?
Like anything in life, it comes down to how far it goes. Then, of course, it comes down to who decides what the line is and who decides if it is crossed or not. I suspect my interpretation is different than others, but yes I have a line also.
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Goes on with many teams, part of the culture of the NFL and to some extent other sports as well.
I doubt that. Rookie hazing goes on, but I've never seen it to this extent - not even close.
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How the hell is Cutler going to come back next week??
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How the hell is Cutler going to come back next week??
Eh. After that drive. Cutler can take his time coming back.
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How f'd up would it be if Shea ended Rodgers season?
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Peppers? What the hell is going on? Rejuvenation for bad Bears d-line tonight?
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How f'd up would it be if Shea ended Rodgers season?
<sob>
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Wow, if nothing else, real interesting game so far. Hell of a block punt.
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Wow, if nothing else, real interesting game so far. Hell of a block punt.
Talk about a swing of momentum...holy smokes.
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Talk about a swing of momentum...holy smokes.
Pack may run for 300 yds tonight, not even kidding.
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This is gonna be a shootout. Packers better hope the run game keeps up because no way Wallace outplay McCown (I cant believe I just said that) Bear down, beat the crap out of the Packers.
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Rodgers night is over, confirmed. Hearing "doesn't look good", for what it's worth.
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Hearing possible broken collarbone.
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Rodgers night is over, confirmed. Hearing "doesn't look good", for what it's worth.
Doesnt look good for my fantasy team either. Thats what I get by going against everything I believe in by drafting a QB in the first round. Aaron Rodgers no less.
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So he'll be ready for the next game, then.
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I doubt that. Rookie hazing goes on, but I've never seen it to this extent - not even close.
I could tell you epic stories from the last 15+ years in my involvement in pro sports.
Yes, it goes on. Lots of stuff goes on, not just hazing.
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Hearing possible broken collarbone.
Crap...my fantasy team shot
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Crap...my fantasy team shot
Josh Gehrig McCown is available if you act quickly I hear.
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Crap...my fantasy team shot
Favre's also.
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I'll say it again, the Bears, like the Vikings, are better off with their starting QB injured.
Unfortunately you can't say the same about the Packers. Thanks, Bob McGinn. Friggin idiot.
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Get some duct tape on Rodgers shoulder and toss him back in. Wallace sucks ass.
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Hearing possible broken collarbone.
I would be surprised by this because of how comfortably he was running off the field. However, the fact that it is his non-throwing shoulder and he is ruled out for the game, it is likely something serious like a broken collarbone.
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matt flynn was just released. signing him is a no brainer in my opinion.
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Impressed by Pack special teams tonight, keeping them in this game.
Also heard Cutler went to Europe during Bears bye week for treatment on his groin. Fire away on the jokes.
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Coulda just gone to On The Border.
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Get some duct tape on Rodgers shoulder and toss him back in. Wallace sucks ass.
Agreed. Unless Matt Flynn (or Vince Young, or Brett Favre) are already off of the plane, throw Jordy in at QB. We'd have a better chance with him running the show.
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Mike McCarthy absolutely baffles me. Of all of the insanely poor challenges McCarthy makes, he leaves the first down catch be after having PLENTY of time to have somebody in his ear, AS WELL AS SEE IT HIMSELF ON THE VIDEO BOARD. And needless to say he has 3 timeouts in his pocket at halftime. Not only does it take at least 3 points away from the Packers, but it also allows the Bears time for their drive to put 3 points on the board. Week in and week out he gives teams points. Unacceptable.
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Tolzien could be the man next game.
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Mike McCarthy absolutely baffles me. Of all of the insanely poor challenges McCarthy makes, he leaves the first down catch be after having PLENTY of time to have somebody in his ear, AS WELL AS SEE IT HIMSELF ON THE VIDEO BOARD. And needless to say he has 3 timeouts in his pocket at halftime. Not only does it take at least 3 points away from the Packers, but it also allows the Bears time for their drive to put 3 points on the board. Week in and week out he gives teams points. Unacceptable.
I was thinking the same thing. You're not saving a TO there, you likely aren't going to get a chance to use it. Saving for 2 challenges in the 2nd half also doesn't make sense.
McCarthy is awful at challenges.
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I could tell you epic stories from the last 15+ years in my involvement in pro sports.
Yes, it goes on. Lots of stuff goes on, not just hazing.
Are you saying that murder threats and threatening a player's family goes on? Just everyday stuff?
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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/team-could-win-without-rodgers-b99132791z1-230373561.html
Thanks buddy.
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http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/team-could-win-without-rodgers-b99132791z1-230373561.html
Thanks buddy.
Yeah, that's what caused it ::)
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Maybe the problem is the defense giving up almost 300 yards in one half against a backup QB.
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Yeah, that's what caused it ::)
Well, Rodgers has missed 1 game in his starting career. Now it looks like he may miss the rest of the season the week that some guy decides to write a ridiculous article about how we could win without the best quarterback in the league. Seneca Wallace is not winning any football games.
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Dish - do you know anything about mike Wilson? He heckles the bears whenever they make a few bad plays abd compares them to the prior coaches. Never says a peep when they're doing well. Was he really close to lovie?
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Broken Collarbone.
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Broken Collarbone.
If it was a broken collarbone, I would be surprised if they let him back out on the field without a sling even.
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If it was a broken collarbone, I would be surprised if they let him back out on the field without a sling even.
It's being reported already.
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Someone get Rodgers a headset and clipboard. McCarthy needs a lot of help here.
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any source for that collarbone report?
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Vince Young musta really blown.
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How can the Bears not put 9 guys in the box and beg Wallace to beat them? Makes no sense.
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Are you saying that murder threats and threatening a player's family goes on? Just everyday stuff?
There are guys that have gotten away with murder...LITERALLY.
I don't think Incognito saying he was going to kill him was literally meant in that way. Have you ever said yourself "I'm going to kill <insert>"
He'll be released from the team shortly, but I think saying he threatened to murder someone is playing fast and loose with intent and reality. IMO.
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any source for that collarbone report?
Sure. Any sideline reporter at the game on Twitter.
Or.
http://deadspin.com/report-aaron-rodgers-has-a-broken-collarbone-1458565373?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
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Sure. Any sideline reporter at the game on Twitter.
Or.
http://deadspin.com/report-aaron-rodgers-has-a-broken-collarbone-1458565373?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
Someone in Bears front office texted me that info a while ago as well.
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Sure. Any sideline reporter at the game on Twitter.
Or.
http://deadspin.com/report-aaron-rodgers-has-a-broken-collarbone-1458565373?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
Could be right, but I know when I broke my collarbone I was in a sling immediately. I wonder why he isn't in one.
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Dish - do you know anything about mike Wilson? He heckles the bears whenever they make a few bad plays abd compares them to the prior coaches. Never says a peep when they're doing well. Was he really close to lovie?
I do not, sorry.
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Meant to say mike wilbon. But thanks
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Meant to say mike wilbon. But thanks
He was a huge Lovie supporter, I believe for the wrong reason though as Wilbon tends to do.
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Could be right, but I know when I broke my collarbone I was in a sling immediately. I wonder why he isn't in one.
notice that he hasn't taken his arm out of his pocket. bet there's something rigged up in his sweatshirt.
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As impressive of a drive as I've seen from the Bears in long time.
I hate going here, but they are much more fluid on offense with McCown. They are running formations and plays Cutler doesn't run/line up.
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As impressive of a drive as I've seen from the Bears in long time.
I hate going here, but they are much more fluid on offense with McCown. They are running formations and plays Cutler doesn't run/line up.
Weird, I said that 2 weeks ago and you called me crazy.
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Weird, I said that 2 weeks ago and you called me crazy.
Incorrect, I said a guy like McCown can come in cold mid game and play well, which he did.
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NFC North officially up for grabs. If Rodgers is out next 6 weeks, he'd be back for @Pokes, Steelers, @Bears.
If you're going to the playoffs, you can not give up 9 plus min drives in the 4th qtr at home. Ballgame.
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bears defeat packers practice squad, 27-20
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There are guys that have gotten away with murder...LITERALLY.
I don't think Incognito saying he was going to kill him was literally meant in that way. Have you ever said yourself "I'm going to kill <insert>"
He'll be released from the team shortly, but I think saying he threatened to murder someone is playing fast and loose with intent and reality. IMO.
"I'll kill you" from a guy with a violent criminal past who is considered the dirtiest player in the game.
Hardly playing "fast and loose".
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Gutsy 4th down call by Trestman. Both teams are decimated with injuries.
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Is it bad if I'm disappointed this season for the bears? I'm not saying I wanted them to tank. But I was hoping for some higher draft picks.
Packers practice squad? No argument here. But do you really think the bears have been healthy?
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NFC North officially up for grabs. If Rodgers is out next 6 weeks, he'd be back for @Pokes, Steelers, @Bears.
If you're going to the playoffs, you can not give up 9 plus min drives in the 4th qtr at home. Ballgame.
As I wrote at halftime - the defense was absolutely brutal tonight.
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bears are pretty banged up too, you're right. Had cutler played this one may have been closer
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"Packers practice squad"
Every time has injuries. Are the Packers hit harder than other teams? Sure. But every team is playing hurt. The backups need to carry their weight when they are called upon. They aren't as deep as everyone thought they are.
Good game, good for the division. Every game from now on means more than ever.
Go Bears.
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Lions/Bears Sunday is huge now.
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"I'll kill you" from a guy with a violent criminal past who is considered the dirtiest player in the game.
Hardly playing "fast and loose".
Sorry, I just don't see it that way. A dirty player doesn't mean he is a murderer or would threaten murder. A lot of guys say things that are stupid, I highly doubt he was threatening to literally kill him.
Nevertheless, he's gone so it doesn't particularly matter.
Yes, some amazingly funny, crazy, scary stories over the last 15+ years. A lot of goofballs in pro sports.
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notice that he hasn't taken his arm out of his pocket. bet there's something rigged up in his sweatshirt.
No sling
http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2013/11/4/5067280/report-aaron-rodgers-suffers-collarbone-injury
Maybe small fracture?
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Could be right, but I know when I broke my collarbone I was in a sling immediately. I wonder why he isn't in one.
Erin is probably just a lot tougher than you.
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No sling
http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2013/11/4/5067280/report-aaron-rodgers-suffers-collarbone-injury
Maybe small fracture?
I think if it was a fracture they would have announced it already. They are saying that they are planning on running more tests. Given a lot of reports of it involving the collarbone, I would lean more towards a separated shoulder (AC joint, clavicle and acromion). In such a case they would conduct more tests than the simple x-ray they conducted in the locker room to determine the severity of the injury...aka damage to ligaments or in worse scenarios tearing of the muscles themselves).
I don't see why they wouldn't announce the fracture now if they already had an x-ray indicating a fracture.
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nm
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Lions/Bears Sunday is huge now.
Reports that cutler will play in that game. Bears might be better off with McCown
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Big win for the back-up Bears against the back-up Pack, but let's get one thing straight: the Bears are NOT better with Josh McCown at QB. The fact of the matter is that the Bears' offense was slightly different with McCown than it had been with Cutler, which makes it harder to prepare for. The Bears ran sets and plays that the Packers hadn't seen yet on film. You can rest assured that the Lions will be more than ready for some of those looks/plays on Sunday. There have been a lot of back-up QBs over the years who came in and had a big game in a spot-start but struggled mightily after that (Chad Hutchinson and Matt Flynn come to mind).
In the same respect, I wouldn't be surprised to see GB beat the Eagles next week running an offense that's better suited to Wallace's skillset, only to see an ugly offense in a loss to the Giants the following week.
Scouting and film work is such integral parts of gameplanning in the modern NFL that there are times when starting a capable back-up QB for a game almost seems like an advantage.
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Big win for the back-up Bears against the back-up Pack, but let's get one thing straight: the Bears are NOT better with Josh McCown at QB. The fact of the matter is that the Bears' offense was slightly different with McCown than it had been with Cutler, which makes it harder to prepare for. The Bears ran sets and plays that the Packers hadn't seen yet on film. You can rest assured that the Lions will be more than ready for some of those looks/plays on Sunday. There have been a lot of back-up QBs over the years who came in and had a big game in a spot-start but struggled mightily after that (Chad Hutchinson and Matt Flynn come to mind).
In the same respect, I wouldn't be surprised to see GB beat the Eagles next week running an offense that's better suited to Wallace's skillset, only to see an ugly offense in a loss to the Giants the following week.
Scouting and film work is such integral parts of gameplanning in the modern NFL that there are times when starting a capable back-up QB for a game almost seems like an advantage.
You are correct, that's why I said before the game that it would not be a blow out because the Bears and McCown had the bye week to prepare.
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Big win for the back-up Bears against the back-up Pack, but let's get one thing straight: the Bears are NOT better with Josh McCown at QB. >>>> (Chad Hutchinson Caleb Hanie and Matt Flynn come to mind).
+1 and fixed.
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As I wrote at halftime - the defense was absolutely brutal tonight.
Reminded me of last year. If you can't get pressure on the quarterback this is what happens.
I hope this puts to rest the "defense is better without Clay Matthews" nonsense that was suggested here last week.
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Reminded me of last year. If you can't get pressure on the quarterback this is what happens.
I hope this puts to rest the "defense is better without Clay Matthews" nonsense that was suggested here last week.
no the defense is not better without clay Matthews. That's nuts.
I think it is time to put Tramon Williams as a nickel or dime def. back and start House instead. I know the Packers say he is playing well, but I see him getting beat a lot and when they needed a big interception he dropped it.
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"Packers practice squad"
Every time has injuries. Are the Packers hit harder than other teams? Sure. But every team is playing hurt. The backups need to carry their weight when they are called upon. They aren't as deep as everyone thought they are.
Good game, good for the division. Every game from now on means more than ever.
Go Bears.
GB not only has starters out but also their backups at several positions are out, alot of undrafted free agents playing and now even some of those (Mulomba) is out but yeah, next man up is all anyone can hope for when it comes to injuries
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Big win for the back-up Bears against the back-up Pack, but let's get one thing straight: the Bears are NOT better with Josh McCown at QB. The fact of the matter is that the Bears' offense was slightly different with McCown than it had been with Cutler, which makes it harder to prepare for. The Bears ran sets and plays that the Packers hadn't seen yet on film. You can rest assured that the Lions will be more than ready for some of those looks/plays on Sunday. There have been a lot of back-up QBs over the years who came in and had a big game in a spot-start but struggled mightily after that (Chad Hutchinson and Matt Flynn come to mind).
In the same respect, I wouldn't be surprised to see GB beat the Eagles next week running an offense that's better suited to Wallace's skillset, only to see an ugly offense in a loss to the Giants the following week.
Scouting and film work is such integral parts of gameplanning in the modern NFL that there are times when starting a capable back-up QB for a game almost seems like an advantage.
I'll agree with you in general (Cutler is a better player than McCown) but how do you explain the Bear offense looking MUCH better in the 2nd half of the Washington game than it did under Cutler in the first half? McCown did a better job (with no reps in weeks) executing the game plan tailored for Cutler than Jay did.
Physically, everything is advantage Cutler, but it's really refreshing to watch 6 quarters of Bear football with great production (over 50 points scored) and no turnovers - especially the pick 6 or fumbles returned for TDs which seem to happen far too often with Cutler.
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It's being reported that Rodgers will be out 3 weeks with broken collarbone...
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GB not only has starters out but also their backups at several positions are out, alot of undrafted free agents playing and now even some of those (Mulomba) is out but yeah, next man up is all anyone can hope for when it comes to injuries
Yep...the bears are playing guys from other team's practice squad on their D-Line due to Henry Melton and Nate Collin's ACL injuries. It also hurts that they've moved Corey Wooten inside to help cover down when he does a much better job on the end. Rookies are having to learn on the fly (Bostic, Greene, and the two rookies on the right side of the line)
Lot's of injuries out there for a lot of teams.
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It's being reported that Rodgers will be out 3 weeks with broken collarbone...
Fractured.
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no the defense is not better without clay Matthews. That's nuts.
I think it is time to put Tramon Williams as a nickel or dime def. back and start House instead. I know the Packers say he is playing well, but I see him getting beat a lot and when they needed a big interception he dropped it.
Merritt's is the one who said that about Matthews.
It really is hard for me to judge DBs in a game like that because I have no idea what is being asked of them, and it is real hard to cover in today's NFL without an adequate pass rush. I will say that Casey Hayward looked very rusty though.
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Erin is probably just a lot tougher than you.
No question, though mine also came with a shoulder separation which meant a sling.
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I'll agree with you in general (Cutler is a better player than McCown) but how do you explain the Bear offense looking MUCH better in the 2nd half of the Washington game than it did under Cutler in the first half? McCown did a better job (with no reps in weeks) executing the game plan tailored for Cutler than Jay did.
Physically, everything is advantage Cutler, but it's really refreshing to watch 6 quarters of Bear football with great production (over 50 points scored) and no turnovers - especially the pick 6 or fumbles returned for TDs which seem to happen far too often with Cutler.
Come on, lets not get out of pocket. 6 quarters against a bad Redskins D and a Packer's D who was really banged up. The Bears offensive line was awesome last night. We've seen Cutler play really well when he's had time this year. His horrible half against the Lions? The OL was bumrushed and he couldn't go through progressions, much less keep himself upright.
We had this same refrain when Hanie played well. Stop selectively remembering Cutler's bad games and projecting it against a steady performance from McCown. With the time McCown had, Cutler would have picked the Packer's defense apart too. All that considered, McCown still was only 22/41. More than half of which were to Marshall or dump offs to Forte or Bush. He wasn't Tom Brady out there dissecting the defense with ruthless efficiency.
Why can't Bears fans enjoy an awesome and unexpected win without somehow finding a way to throw shade at Cutler in the midst of his best season as a Bear prior to injury.
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Big Cutler supporter. Always has been and there should be no dispute at all that Cutler is the Bears starting QB. Great win for the Bears and its gonna be a dogfight for the last half of the season in the NFC north.
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I think a lot of people are missing the greater point here with McCown. What you saw last night was the value of Trestman and the playbook of Kromer. No one will argue that Cutler is the better QB, but what's being undervalued is McCown knows that offense inside/out. Last night was the first game all season where the Bears offense was what I was looking forward to seeing all season. It was fluid, they ran sets they haven't run all year, took chances deeps, got creative with the run game. What that says about Cutler, I honestly do not know. Do I think McCown is leading them deep in the playoffs? No. Do I believe last night was a fluke? No.
What you want out of a back up QB is either a vet who will completely buy in and put in the time to understand the offense, or a young/athletic kid who more or less plays on instinct and uses his athletic ability more than the playbook. Take Wallace as an example, he's a journeyman, hasn't had the time to get reps, isn't young and certainly not as athletic as he used to be, and it showed. Flynn was successful in GB for a reason. McCown was successful last night for a reason.
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Come on, lets not get out of pocket. 6 quarters against a bad Redskins D and a Packer's D who was really banged up. The Bears offensive line was awesome last night. We've seen Cutler play really well when he's had time this year. His horrible half against the Lions? The OL was bumrushed and he couldn't go through progressions, much less keep himself upright.
We had this same refrain when Hanie played well. Stop selectively remembering Cutler's bad games and projecting it against a steady performance from McCown. With the time McCown had, Cutler would have picked the Packer's defense apart too. All that considered, McCown still was only 22/41. More than half of which were to Marshall or dump offs to Forte or Bush. He wasn't Tom Brady out there dissecting the defense with ruthless efficiency.
Why can't Bears fans enjoy an awesome and unexpected win without somehow finding a way to throw shade at Cutler in the midst of his best season as a Bear prior to injury.
What does "get out of pocket" mean? Cutler and McCown both played one half against the bad Redskins' defense you reference. Cutler was 3-8 for 28 yards and a pick six. His quarterback rating was 8.3. McCown was 14-20, 204 yards, 1 TD 0 int. His quarterback rating was 119.6. He has led the offense to 51 points in 6 quarters and has a QB rating over 100. I never said he was Tom Brady. Neither is Jay Cutler. Cutler is a mid level NFL QB (84 career rating). McCown has a career 74 rating, mostly with a bad Arizona team. He doesn't have Jay's big play capability, but he doesn't make as many big mistakes. As I said before, he's not as good as Cutler, but he's waaaaay better than Caleb Hanie. Comparing the two (Hanie's career rating? 41.6) is idiotic.
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Well, it is three weeks for Rodgers. If they can manage to go 2-1 over these three weeks, which IMO is completely doable (Philly, @NYG, Minny) then they will still control their destiny (for the most part) before the Thanksgiving game at Detroit.
It could be worse.
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What does "get out of pocket" mean? Cutler and McCown both played one half against the bad Redskins' defense you reference. Cutler was 3-8 for 28 yards and a pick six. His quarterback rating was 8.3. McCown was 14-20, 204 yards, 1 TD 0 int. His quarter back rating was 119.6. He has led the offense to 51 points in 6 quarters and has a QB rating over 100. I never said he was Tom Brady. Neither is Jay Cutler. Cutler is a mid level NFL QB (84 rating). McCown has a career 74 rating, mostly with a bad Arizona team. He doesn't have Jay's big play capability, but he doesn't make as many big mistakes. As I said before, he's not as good as Cutler, but he's waaaaay better than Caleb Hanie. Comparing the two (Hanie's career rating? 41.6) is idiotic.
Against Washington, Cutler went down 5 minutes into the 2nd quarter after running all of 14 plays (and scoring 10 points). The pick six that he threw bounced out of Jeffery's hands. That's hardly on the QB. After Cutler's injury, Hester returned a punt for a TD and Forte had a 50-yard TD run two plays after Jeffery broke a screen pass for 20+ yards. That's 14 of the Bears' 31 points with McCown under center.
Added: The Bears did score 10 points with Cutler in the game, but admittedly, the TD drive was only 10 yards following an INT.
Don't get me wrong, McCown has played very well in just under 7 quarters, but that doesn't mean that the Bears are a better team with him than with than Jay Cutler. McCown is the type of QB who won't lose you a game (which is why he's a career back-up) but he's not the type of QB who's going to go out and win you a game.
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Well, it is three weeks for Rodgers. If they can manage to go 2-1 over these three weeks, which IMO is completely doable (Philly, @NYG, Minny) then they will still control their destiny (for the most part) before the Thanksgiving game at Detroit.
It could be worse.
Three weeks for a non-throwing shoulder injury? What a pansy! Why can't he play with a bad left shoulder? Oh, that's right: he's a quitter. He should have been back in the game last night instead of bailing on his team in an important divisional game!
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Well, it is three weeks for Rodgers. If they can manage to go 2-1 over these three weeks, which IMO is completely doable (Philly, @NYG, Minny) then they will still control their destiny (for the most part) before the Thanksgiving game at Detroit.
It could be worse.
Could be worse, except he would probably miss 4 games because the 4th game is a thursday
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Could be worse, except he would probably miss 4 games because the 4th game is a thursday
Well, three weeks from today is the Tuesday before that Thursday game...but we will see.
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Three weeks for a non-throwing shoulder injury? What a pansy! Why can't he play with a bad left shoulder? Oh, that's right: he's a quitter. He should have been back in the game last night instead of bailing on his team in an important divisional game!
Ha, too funny. That is one of the many reasons I hate Packer fans and the mass media.
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Don't get me wrong, McCown has played very well in just under 7 quarters, but that doesn't mean that the Bears are a better team with him than with than Jay Cutler. McCown is the type of QB who won't lose you a game (which is why he's a career back-up) but he's not the type of QB who's going to go out and win you a game.
Again, I don't dispute that Cutler is better. The point remain that in just under 7 quarters McCown has played like "good Jay". He's an outstanding backup, not the reincarnation of Caleb Hanie.
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Ha, too funny. That is one of the many reasons I hate Packer fans and the mass media.
You do realize that he is making fun of Bears' fans and their reaction to Cutler sitting out most of the NFC Championship Game right?
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You do realize that he is making fun of Bears' fans and their reaction to Cutler sitting out most of the NFC Championship Game right?
I took it as Packer fans making fun of Jay Cutler sitting out of the NFC championship game even though he was actually hurt. That and all the groin jokes ive had to endure before yesterdays game. That and how the media always disses Cutler but sees Rodgers as their goldenboy.
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You do realize that he is making fun of Bears' fans and their reaction to Cutler sitting out most of the NFC Championship Game right?
I took it as Packer fans making fun of Jay Cutler sitting out of the NFC championship game even though he was actually hurt. That and all the groin jokes ive had to endure before yesterdays game. That and how the media always disses Cutler but sees Rodgers as their goldenboy.
esard2011 wins this one!
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esard2011 wins this one!
Touche.
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I love it.
http://gif.mocksession.com/2013/11/rodgers-fu/
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Haven't been this upset about a game in a long time. Bob McGinn was way off base thinking we can win without Rodgers.
Three most frustrating things about that game:
1) McCarthy's decision not to challenge the incomplete pass by Quarless was an absolute game changer. Seneca was finally moving the chains with his arm and gaining a little confidence. Seemed like a catch to every in the stadium except for McCarthy. I would be shocked if his upstairs eyes weren't yelling down to him on the headset to throw the flag. The look of disbelief in the fans' eyes at the game said it all. McCarthy had absolutely nothing to lose especially since we finished the game with both challenge flags in his pocket and 3 TOs walking into the locker room at halftime. I do think it would've been overturned. We would get at least three, take time off the clock, maybe score a touchdown. Instead McCarthy makes the boneheaded decision to keep the flag in, we punt, Seneca loses any momentum, they go down and kick a FG
2) Tackling was as bad as youre going to see it. We had them on multiple 3rd down plays and probably could've stopped most of the 3rd down conversions on the final drive if they tackled better. We had them on the 4th and inches. Mistackles is easily the most frustrating thing to watch.
3) D's inability to create turnovers. It is absolutely impossible to win a game with a backup QB is the D doesn't create turnovers and this was the case. Even sacks to push them back, the D-line got owned. Tramon's pass knockdown towards the end of the game should've been an easy catch INT putting us at their 30 ready to score.
Seneca isn't the answer and it might be a looooooooong 3 weeks
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Well, it is three weeks for Rodgers. If they can manage to go 2-1 over these three weeks, which IMO is completely doable (Philly, @NYG, Minny) then they will still control their destiny (for the most part) before the Thanksgiving game at Detroit.
It could be worse.
Not sure you can manage 2-1, even against that schedule. I guess we'll all find out.
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Let's see what happens.
Last time Rodgers went out (against Detroit I believe), Flynn came in and looked pretty much like Wallace looked last night. Next game he went out against New England and had an outstanding game.
Let's see what Wallace can do against 3 bad teams with 1st team practice reps.
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Speaking of Flynn, he's available. And knows the offense. GB could do a lot worse.
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Haven't been this upset about a game in a long time. Bob McGinn was way off base thinking we can win without Rodgers.
Three most frustrating things about that game:
1) McCarthy's decision not to challenge the incomplete pass by Quarless was an absolute game changer. Seneca was finally moving the chains with his arm and gaining a little confidence. Seemed like a catch to every in the stadium except for McCarthy. I would be shocked if his upstairs eyes weren't yelling down to him on the headset to throw the flag. The look of disbelief in the fans' eyes at the game said it all. McCarthy had absolutely nothing to lose especially since we finished the game with both challenge flags in his pocket and 3 TOs walking into the locker room at halftime. I do think it would've been overturned. We would get at least three, take time off the clock, maybe score a touchdown. Instead McCarthy makes the boneheaded decision to keep the flag in, we punt, Seneca loses any momentum, they go down and kick a FG
2) Tackling was as bad as youre going to see it. We had them on multiple 3rd down plays and probably could've stopped most of the 3rd down conversions on the final drive if they tackled better. We had them on the 4th and inches. Mistackles is easily the most frustrating thing to watch.
3) D's inability to create turnovers. It is absolutely impossible to win a game with a backup QB is the D doesn't create turnovers and this was the case. Even sacks to push them back, the D-line got owned. Tramon's pass knockdown towards the end of the game should've been an easy catch INT putting us at their 30 ready to score.
Seneca isn't the answer and it might be a looooooooong 3 weeks
IMO it wasn't the inability of the defense to create turnovers that lost us the game. We even made enough plays on special teams to win. It was the inability of the defense to pressure McCown and get off the field. Any QB with enough time will pick a defense apart and that's what happened last night.
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Speaking of Flynn, he's available. And knows the offense. GB could do a lot worse.
Heard they want Favre.
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Heard they want Favre.
even teal wouldn't have made that funny
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sounds like there is concern over flynn's arm...
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You do realize that he is making fun of Bears' fans and their reaction to Cutler sitting out most of the NFC Championship Game right?
He's making fun of the Packers fans and everyone else when Cutler went down in the NFC Championship. Jay got a lot of flak for that. Time for Rodgers to get his.
what a puss.
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The Bears/Packers rivalry is a special thing indeed:
http://www.wiscnews.com/bdc/news/local/article_0c1853b0-84e4-5f07-92df-d415eaaff170.html
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He's making fun of the Packers fans and everyone else when Cutler went down in the NFC Championship. Jay got a lot of flak for that. Time for Rodgers to get his.
what a puss.
This from a guy who said lacy would only get 10 touches a game and isn't that good just a product of the bama line. Nice insight.
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He's making fun of the Packers fans and everyone else when Cutler went down in the NFC Championship. Jay got a lot of flak for that. Time for Rodgers to get his.
what a puss.
I think Cutler was unfairly maligned...and continues to be because he doesn't do a lot to help himself. But Bears' fans come off looking dumb by questioning Rodgers toughness. He really doesn't have anything to prove to anyone.
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I think Cutler was unfairly maligned...and continues to be because he doesn't do a lot to help himself. But Bears' fans come off looking dumb by questioning Rodgers toughness. He really doesn't have anything to prove to anyone.
Bears' fans aren't serious in their mocking of Rodgers' toughness. It's more a matter of mocking the Packers' fans who didn't hesitate to mock Cutler and question his toughness when he was legitimately injured.
What I find interesting is that, for all the flak that Cutler catches about his personality, Rodgers isn't exactly a real warm and fuzzy guy. He's a bit of an aloof, stand-offish guy as well. He just cares more about his reputation (not saying that in a bad way) and does the It's Aaron commercials, etc. Cutler's thoughts on his reputation can be summed up in two words: Doooon't caaaaaare!
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What I find interesting is that, for all the flak that Cutler catches about his personality, Rodgers isn't exactly a real warm and fuzzy guy. He's a bit of an aloof, stand-offish guy as well. He just cares more about his reputation (not saying that in a bad way) and does the It's Aaron commercials, etc. Cutler's thoughts on his reputation can be summed up in two words: Doooon't caaaaaare!
I don't disagree with that. Twice on Monday before the game he pushed an ESPN camera out of the way. He clearly had an edge to him.
I do know that Rodgers does a lot that people don't know about on issues he cares for. I am not saying that is unique to Rodgers in any way, but I don't think he does everything to craft his public image.
BTW, I really was unaware to the extent that Packer fans ripped on Cutler. Maybe its because I listen to a lot of Chicago sports radio, but I heard a lot of the same things from Bears' fans.
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BTW, I really was unaware to the extent that Packer fans ripped on Cutler. Maybe its because I listen to a lot of Chicago sports radio, but I heard a lot of the same things from Bears' fans.
Yeah, I thought Bears fan gave Cutler way more crap for the NFC Championship game. Didn't TMZ even get into the picture? Some classic radio from that week.
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Yeah, I thought Bears fan gave Cutler way more crap for the NFC Championship game. Didn't TMZ even get into the picture? Some classic edited/staged radio from that week.
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I think Cutler was unfairly maligned...and continues to be because he doesn't do a lot to help himself. But Bears' fans come off looking dumb by questioning Rodgers toughness. He really doesn't have anything to prove to anyone.
He's unfairly maligned because he's never been a winner. And his supporters always blame someone else - coach, OC, play calls, teammates, etc.
He only has ONE career playoff win and that's only because it was against a sub-.500 team.
You can get away with being a jerk if you can win consistently, but I think we have enough evidence to know that won't happen.
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He's unfairly maligned because he's never been a winner. And his supporters always blame someone else - coach, OC, play calls, teammates, etc.
He only has ONE career playoff win and that's only because it was against a sub-.500 team.
You can get away with being a jerk if you can win consistently, but I think we have enough evidence to know that won't happen.
Yep and Rodgers won one playoff game in the past 2 seasons only because they played against a QB who is now a WR, right?
What's interesting to consider is that the perception of both Cutler's and Rodgers' careers has been largely shaped by the 2010 NFC Championship Game. If Cutler doesn't get injured and the Bears win*, then regardless of how the Bears did in the SB, Cutler would be viewed in a more favorable way while Rodgers would be viewed as a great regular season QB whose teams wilt in the postseason. Heck, if Cutler didn't get hurt but the Bears still lost, he'd be viewed differently.
* - Fans tend forget that the Bears were deep in GB territory late in that 7-point game and that Rodgers didn't play very well. The Bears also blew a golden opportunity immediately after Cutler's injury when they took over at midfield and Todd Collins showed his ineptitude. Because someone will fly off the handle: I'm not saying that the Bears would have definitely won with a healthy Cutler, just that he would have given the Bears a better chance to win a very winnable game.
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Yep and Rodgers won one playoff game in the past 2 seasons only because they played against a QB who is now a WR, right?
What's interesting to consider is that the perception of both Cutler's and Rodgers' careers has been largely shaped by the 2010 NFC Championship Game. If Cutler doesn't get injured and the Bears win*, then regardless of how the Bears did in the SB, Cutler would be viewed in a more favorable way while Rodgers would be viewed as a great regular season QB whose teams wilt in the postseason. Heck, if Cutler didn't get hurt but the Bears still lost, he'd be viewed differently.
* - Fans tend forget that the Bears were deep in GB territory late in that 7-point game and that Rodgers didn't play very well. The Bears also blew a golden opportunity immediately after Cutler's injury when they took over at midfield and Todd Collins showed his ineptitude. Because someone will fly off the handle: I'm not saying that the Bears would have definitely won with a healthy Cutler, just that he would have given the Bears a better chance to win a very winnable game.
Holy crap are you a myopic bears fan
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Yep and Rodgers won one playoff game in the past 2 seasons only because they played against a QB who is now a WR, right?
What's interesting to consider is that the perception of both Cutler's and Rodgers' careers has been largely shaped by the 2010 NFC Championship Game. If Cutler doesn't get injured and the Bears win*, then regardless of how the Bears did in the SB, Cutler would be viewed in a more favorable way while Rodgers would be viewed as a great regular season QB whose teams wilt in the postseason. Heck, if Cutler didn't get hurt but the Bears still lost, he'd be viewed differently.
* - Fans tend forget that the Bears were deep in GB territory late in that 7-point game and that Rodgers didn't play very well. The Bears also blew a golden opportunity immediately after Cutler's injury when they took over at midfield and Todd Collins showed his ineptitude. Because someone will fly off the handle: I'm not saying that the Bears would have definitely won with a healthy Cutler, just that he would have given the Bears a better chance to win a very winnable game.
You can say similar things about every game. What if Matt Ryan doesn't throw the pick six the last play of the first half of the game before? What if the Pittsburgh RB doesn't fumble when they had all the momentum in the world during the Super Bowl?
And I will point out that Rodgers threw a redzone INT to Urlacher as well. Packers score there and that game is sealed earlier than it was.
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Yep and Rodgers won one playoff game in the past 2 seasons only because they played against a QB who is now a WR, right?
What's interesting to consider is that the perception of both Cutler's and Rodgers' careers has been largely shaped by the 2010 NFC Championship Game. If Cutler doesn't get injured and the Bears win*, then regardless of how the Bears did in the SB, Cutler would be viewed in a more favorable way while Rodgers would be viewed as a great regular season QB whose teams wilt in the postseason. Heck, if Cutler didn't get hurt but the Bears still lost, he'd be viewed differently.
* - Fans tend forget that the Bears were deep in GB territory late in that 7-point game and that Rodgers didn't play very well. The Bears also blew a golden opportunity immediately after Cutler's injury when they took over at midfield and Todd Collins showed his ineptitude. Because someone will fly off the handle: I'm not saying that the Bears would have definitely won with a healthy Cutler, just that he would have given the Bears a better chance to win a very winnable game.
Yeah, I guess you're right - their careers are quite comparable ::)
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must suck to be Jermichael Finley in a contract year
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Yeah, I guess you're right - their careers are quite comparable ::)
I'm a Bear fan but OMG. Comparing Jay Cutler to Aaron Rodgers is like comparing Carson Palmer to Peyton Manning. Not even remotely close by any fair measuring stick.
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I'm a Bear fan but OMG. Comparing Jay Cutler to Aaron Rodgers is like comparing Carson Palmer to Peyton Manning. Not even remotely close by any fair measuring stick.
Because that's totally what he was doing.
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Holy crap are you a myopic bears fan
Yeah, I guess you're right - their careers are quite comparable ::)
I'm a Bear fan but OMG. Comparing Jay Cutler to Aaron Rodgers is like comparing Carson Palmer to Peyton Manning. Not even remotely close by any fair measuring stick.
Sheesh! I didn't compare Cutler and Rodgers in terms of skills or stats or accomplishments. All I said was that had the outcome of one game gone a different way, the perception of those two players' careers would be vastly different.
Do any of your disagree with that?
Because that's totally what he was doing.
At least one poster on here has some reading comprehension skills.
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Sheesh! I didn't compare Cutler and Rodgers in terms of skills or stats or accomplishments. All I said was that had the outcome of one game gone a different way, the perception of those two players' careers would be vastly different.
Do any of your disagree with that?
At least one poster on here has some reading comprehension skills.
Yes I disagree with that.
Cutler is widely regarded as a douche (fairly or unfairly) and not just by Packer fans. Perception is reality. I don't think winning a championship or super bowl would change that. To me, its his demeanor, facial expressions and body language. I am not sure winning a championship game would automatically make him a beloved figure. Its not just about winning, the bears have been fairly successful. There are plenty of quarterbacks that have won less than Cutler but are not as widely regarded as an ass.
You can say "what if" all you want, but you can play that game with almost anything. The reality is what actually happened.
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The problem with Jay is that he has a huge image problem. He has a pouty face, yells at his teammates, and isn't a great QB.
Rodgers on the other hand, smiles, shows he enjoys the game (yes he also yells at his teammates), is a great QB, and has a great PR game.
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The problem with Jay is that he has a huge image problem. He has a pouty face, yells at his teammates, and isn't a great QB.
Rodgers on the other hand, smiles, shows he enjoys the game (yes he also yells at his teammates), is a great QB, and has a great PR game.
Exactly, and its not just about winning.
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During the game a Packer fan friend of mine told me Wallace throws like Uncle Rico. Looks like he nailed it.
http://www.youtube.com/v/bcuktZe72ZI
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Cutler just missed the right timing. If cigarette commercials were still allowed on TV, "Smokin' Jay Cutler" would just own anything Rodgers currently does.
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During the game a Packer fan friend of mine told me Wallace throws like Uncle Rico. Looks like he nailed it.
http://www.youtube.com/v/bcuktZe72ZI
That's my concern as well. Maybe I'm just spoiled from watching Rodgers and Favre all these years, but I watch plenty pf football, and ot took about 2 pass attempts to figure put that he can't make NFL throws. I'm sure they can do some preparation to figure out to get him through the next few games against pretty bad teams, but I think I may be more concerned than most.
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That's my concern as well. Maybe I'm just spoiled from watching Rodgers and Favre all these years, but I watch plenty pf football, and ot took about 2 pass attempts to figure put that he can't make NFL throws. I'm sure they can do some preparation to figure out to get him through the next few games against pretty bad teams, but I think I may be more concerned than most.
That pass that was tipped and picked off by peppers was ridiculous. He threw it side arm right into his head. They are going to have to move him out of the pocket. He is too short, and throws sidearm, to stand in the pocket and throw over tall d lineman. On top of that he doesn't look very mobile.
Part of it was the play calling. I know McCarthy didn't want to put too much on the qb but calling runs on 1st and 2nd down when they are loading up the box and then making Wallace throw on third and long when everyone and their mother know he has to throw, is a recipe for disaster. No qb would do well with that.
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Yes I disagree with that.
Cutler is widely regarded as a douche (fairly or unfairly) and not just by Packer fans. Perception is reality. I don't think winning a championship or super bowl would change that. To me, its his demeanor, facial expressions and body language. I am not sure winning a championship game would automatically make him a beloved figure. Its not just about winning, the bears have been fairly successful. There are plenty of quarterbacks that have won less than Cutler but are not as widely regarded as an ass.
You can say "what if" all you want, but you can play that game with almost anything. The reality is what actually happened.
That's where we differ and I believe you're completely wrong. Winning cures all. It always has and it always will.
Would Cutler become a beloved American sports figure if he wins a Super Bowl? Doubtful, but he would be viewed in a much more positive light.
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Even Wallace's couple of deep balls weren't really thrown with much zip.
That being said, I do think that getting him first team reps with a game plan that more fits his skills is going to have better results this Sunday. As I mentioned, it is a good thing that they are playing three weaker opponents in the coming weeks.
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That's where we differ and I believe you're completely wrong. Winning cures all. It always has and it always will.
Would Cutler become a beloved American sports figure if he wins a Super Bowl? Doubtful, but he would be viewed in a much more positive light.
He would be viewed pretty much like Joe Flacco is now.
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That's where we differ and I believe you're completely wrong. Winning cures all. It always has and it always will.
Would Cutler become a beloved American sports figure if he wins a Super Bowl? Doubtful, but he would be viewed in a much more positive light.
Well I know one thing for sure. You will keep hoping that he wins a super bowl, to prove your point and I will keep hoping that he loses so we never find out for sure.
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He would be viewed pretty much like Joe Flacco is now.
Flacco has 9 playoff wins....not bad.
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Flacco has 9 playoff wins....not bad.
I'm not saying he's a bad quarterback. I just think the national perception of him is that he is a decent quarterback with a bland personality who won with a defensive-oriented team. That is pretty much what Cutler's rep would have been.
Now if Rodgers hadn't won the Super Bowl...and ended his career without winning one? Probably would be viewed as a lesser version of Dan Marino. Great numbers. Won a lot of games. Didn't do it when it mattered.
But Rodgers has one a Super Bowl...and Cutler hasn't yet. So it's all speculation.
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I'm not saying he's a bad quarterback. I just think the national perception of him is that he is a decent quarterback with a bland personality who won with a defensive-oriented team. That is pretty much what Cutler's rep would have been.
Now if Rodgers hadn't won the Super Bowl...and ended his career without winning one? Probably would be viewed as a lesser version of Dan Marino. Great numbers. Won a lot of games. Didn't do it when it mattered.
But Rodgers has one a Super Bowl...and Cutler hasn't yet. So it's all speculation.
I agree, that is the perception. Just as Romo is viewed as not getting it done when it matters, yet he has the highest 4th quarter rating in NFL (4th all time for all QB rating, not just 4th quarter) and 5th in 4th quarter comeback wins among active players. Perceptions definitely play a role.
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That's where we differ and I believe you're completely wrong. Winning cures all. It always has and it always will.
Would Cutler become a beloved American sports figure if he wins a Super Bowl? Doubtful, but he would be viewed in a much more positive light.
I think Eli is the perfect example of this.
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Yes I disagree with that.
Cutler is widely regarded as a douche (fairly or unfairly) and not just by Packer fans. Perception is reality. I don't think winning a championship or super bowl would change that. To me, its his demeanor, facial expressions and body language. I am not sure winning a championship game would automatically make him a beloved figure. Its not just about winning, the bears have been fairly successful. There are plenty of quarterbacks that have won less than Cutler but are not as widely regarded as an ass.
You can say "what if" all you want, but you can play that game with almost anything. The reality is what actually happened.
I agree on the perception of Cutler being a douche, but Rodgers gives off the same impression to a lot of people as well. Like you said, it's not just about winning, and I don't think Rodger's superbowl and MVP have given him a pass in some people's mind. Rodgers can be as arrogant and cocky as any other player in the league. He always seems to have this smirk on his face, and his body language can be just as bad as Cutler's. He also whines a lot. The fact that he is really good at what he does (one of the best at what he does) I think allows some people to look past his attitude, but not everyone.
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I agree on the perception of Cutler being a douche, but Rodgers gives off the same impression to a lot of people as well. Like you said, it's not just about winning, and I don't think Rodger's superbowl and MVP have given him a pass in some people's mind. Rodgers can be as arrogant and cocky as any other player in the league. He always seems to have this smirk on his face, and his body language can be just as bad as Cutler's. He also whines a lot. The fact that he is really good at what he does (one of the best at what he does) I think allows some people to look past his attitude, but not everyone.
Can Rodgers be a douche? Sure. Every NFL quarterback can...and probably is. But the difference is that Rodgers seems to have plenty of moments where he is pretty endearing. You can't say that about Cutler.
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I agree on the perception of Cutler being a douche, but Rodgers gives off the same impression to a lot of people as well. Like you said, it's not just about winning, and I don't think Rodger's superbowl and MVP have given him a pass in some people's mind. Rodgers can be as arrogant and cocky as any other player in the league. He always seems to have this smirk on his face, and his body language can be just as bad as Cutler's. He also whines a lot. The fact that he is really good at what he does (one of the best at what he does) I think allows some people to look past his attitude, but not everyone.
I think you're kind of alone here on this one. I don't hear this sort of thing except from BBFs (Bitter Bear Fans).
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I agree on the perception of Cutler being a douche, but Rodgers gives off the same impression to a lot of people as well. Like you said, it's not just about winning, and I don't think Rodger's superbowl and MVP have given him a pass in some people's mind. Rodgers can be as arrogant and cocky as any other player in the league. He always seems to have this smirk on his face, and his body language can be just as bad as Cutler's. He also whines a lot. The fact that he is really good at what he does (one of the best at what he does) I think allows some people to look past his attitude, but not everyone.
I bet you are a bears fan or Vikings fan, right? Very difficult to get an objective perception if you are.
Most qbs are arrogant. I would like you to cite some examples of Rodgers "whining" I think the contrary is true. In general, Rodgers has a likeable personality to the general non bear or Viking fan. If not, companies wouldn't be so eager to have him pimping their products
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If not, companies wouldn't be so eager to have him pimping their products
I just canceled my State Farm homeowners and switched to a different company because they have a whiny spokesman.
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I bet you are a bears fan or Vikings fan, right? Very difficult to get an objective perception if you are.
Most qbs are arrogant. I would like you to cite some examples of Rodgers "whining" I think the contrary is true. In general, Rodgers has a likeable personality to the general non bear or Viking fan. If not, companies wouldn't be so eager to have him pimping their products
Without that ring on his finger, do you think companies would still be so eager to have him pimping their products?
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Without that ring on his finger, do you think companies would still be so eager to have him pimping their products?
Still waiting for all those Flacco and Roethlisberger commercials. Its more than just winning the super bowl
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Still waiting for all those Flacco and Roethlisberger commercials. Its more than just winning the super bowl
Flacco does have the huge McDonalds campaign with Kaep. Rapelisberger is in his own separate category though thanks to his CO incident.
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I bet you are a bears fan or Vikings fan, right? Very difficult to get an objective perception if you are.
Most qbs are arrogant. I would like you to cite some examples of Rodgers "whining" I think the contrary is true. In general, Rodgers has a likeable personality to the general non bear or Viking fan. If not, companies wouldn't be so eager to have him pimping their products
I bet you're a Packers fan, right? Very difficult to get an objective perception if you are.
I'm just saying - he's as arrogant and cocky as anyone else. Always with the smartass comments during his interviews. Always looks displeased. I'm sure others see him that way, also.
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Still waiting for all those Flacco and Roethlisberger commercials. Its more than just winning the super bowl
There are people who like Jay Cutler, too. He also has endorsements. People think he's funny... he had that NFL merch commercial last year that a lot of people thought was great... he's been in multiple episodes of The League... his wife is famous for just being famous... perhaps all the "I don't care" mentality is all a part of his PR game.
If he won the superbowl, I guarantee he would have tons of endorsements.
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Sheesh! I didn't compare Cutler and Rodgers in terms of skills or stats or accomplishments. All I said was that had the outcome of one game gone a different way, the perception of those two players' careers would be vastly different.
Do any of your disagree with that?
At least one poster on here has some reading comprehension skills.
Vastly different perceptions of a career based on one play or one game? Only if those doing the perceiving are myopic.
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Still waiting for all those Flacco and Roethlisberger commercials. Its more than just winning the super bowl
Flacco is doing some commercials, even a national one with McDonald's. Ben has some damaged goods issues to deal with which has kept companies from signing him up.
Joe doesn't have a high Q score, so it's not surprising that most of his commericals are Baltimore based like 1st Mariner Bank, etc.
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I bet you're a Packers fan, right? Very difficult to get an objective perception if you are.
I'm just saying - he's as arrogant and cocky as anyone else. Always with the smartass comments during his interviews. Always looks displeased. I'm sure others see him that way, also.
I am not saying I don't view cutler negative because I am a packer fan at all, nor Rodgers positive because I am a packer fan. You said that. I am saying if you poll the average non packer and bear fan and ask them who is the more likeable guy between Rodgers and cutler, it wouldn't be close. Your hatred for the packers skew how you view Rodgers. Still waiting for those whiney comments from Rodgers
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Rodgers did seem to bitch at team mates and whine alot more the first couple of years he was a starter but to me it looks like he's toned that down quite a bit since regardless (irregardless?) what Greg Jennings said
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Flacco is doing some commercials, even a national one with McDonald's. Ben has some damaged goods issues to deal with which has kept companies from signing him up.
Joe doesn't have a high Q score, so it's not surprising that most of his commericals are Baltimore based like 1st Mariner Bank, etc.
well that's my point, it is just as much about personality and the individual as it is winning.
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Rodgers did seem to bitch at team mates and whine alot more the first couple of years he was a starter but to me it looks like he's toned that down quite a bit since regardless what Greg Jennings said
Bitch at players yes, whine no
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I am not saying I don't view cutler negative because I am a packer fan at all, nor Rodgers positive because I am a packer fan. You said that. I am saying if you poll the average non packer and bear fan and ask them who is the more likeable guy between Rodgers and cutler, it wouldn't be close. Your hatred for the packers skew how you view Rodgers. Still waiting for those whiney comments from Rodgers
I'm not saying Cutler is more likeable than Rodgers. I'm saying that many others also view Rodgers as an arrogant, cocky, smartass. And if you can't see that, then it's probably because you are a Packers fan.
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Bitch at players yes, whine no
Bitching, whining... guess I should have differntiated?
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I am not saying I don't view cutler negative because I am a packer fan at all, nor Rodgers positive because I am a packer fan. You said that. I am saying if you poll the average non packer and bear fan and ask them who is the more likeable guy between Rodgers and cutler, it wouldn't be close. Your hatred for the packers skew how you view Rodgers. Still waiting for those whiney comments from Rodgers
If Cutler had Rodgers' ring, leading to a couple goofy commercials with Da Super Fans, people would find him more likable and view Rodgers as a whiny Dan Fouts. Aaannnd...we're back to where we started.
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Uh, pretty sure winning erases any image problems. Look at tom Brady this season. Bitches at his teammates, looks pissed on the sidelines, but no one makes a stink about him.
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Bitching, whining... guess I should have differntiated?
There is a big difference between calling out players and whining. most qbs yell at receivers occasionally. Do you have a problem with Brady doing it?
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I'm not saying Cutler is more likeable than Rodgers. I'm saying that many others also view Rodgers as an arrogant, cocky, smartass. And if you can't see that, then it's probably because you are a Packers fan.
But that makes no sense. I have never heard in the media that he is an arrogant, cocky, smartass. Literally zero times. Feel free to point to a national personality doing it (Obviously, Chicago media or your neighbor doesn't count).
Would you hire an arrogant, cocky, smartass to be the face of your commercial campaign? I sure wouldn't.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14567073/twosecond-video-clip-doesnt-at-all-capture-rodgers
Yeah, what a total arrogant, cocky, smartass.
Get real.
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There's also this that just got posted on CBS Sports today: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24198782/aaron-rodgers-makes-music-with-girl-suffering-from-spina-bifida (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24198782/aaron-rodgers-makes-music-with-girl-suffering-from-spina-bifida)
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Would you hire an arrogant, cocky, smartass to be the face of your commercial campaign? I sure wouldn't.
So you wouldn't want Michael Jordan, LeBron or Tom Brady in a commercial for your company? ;)
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You really want to turn this into a pointless charity-work/nice-guy pi$$ing contest? Cool.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000084679/article/jay-cutler-hosts-family-of-slain-chicago-bears-fan (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000084679/article/jay-cutler-hosts-family-of-slain-chicago-bears-fan)
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/4422823-419/bears-not-bothered-by-silent-treatment.html (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/4422823-419/bears-not-bothered-by-silent-treatment.html)
http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2011/04/jay_cutler_hosting_charity_din.html (http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2011/04/jay_cutler_hosting_charity_din.html)
http://www.littlegiraffefoundation.org/2012-Jay-Cutler-Charity-Drive (http://www.littlegiraffefoundation.org/2012-Jay-Cutler-Charity-Drive)
There. Both guys do charity work and are genuinely decent guys. Glad we got that cleared up.
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There. Both guys do charity work and are genuinely decent guys. Glad we got that cleared up.
Yeah but Cutler's kind of a douche
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Yeah but Cutler's kind of a douche
Completely not a douche. Have you ever met him? Good news is that the non-douche is cleared to play.
http://www.csnchicago.com/bears/jay-cutler-cleared-play-expected-start-vs-lions
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You really want to turn this into a pointless charity-work/nice-guy pi$$ing contest? Cool.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000084679/article/jay-cutler-hosts-family-of-slain-chicago-bears-fan (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000084679/article/jay-cutler-hosts-family-of-slain-chicago-bears-fan)
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/4422823-419/bears-not-bothered-by-silent-treatment.html (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/4422823-419/bears-not-bothered-by-silent-treatment.html)
http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2011/04/jay_cutler_hosting_charity_din.html (http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2011/04/jay_cutler_hosting_charity_din.html)
http://www.littlegiraffefoundation.org/2012-Jay-Cutler-Charity-Drive (http://www.littlegiraffefoundation.org/2012-Jay-Cutler-Charity-Drive)
There. Both guys do charity work and are genuinely decent guys. Glad we got that cleared up.
I want to just as much as some people want to turn it into a contest about who is more arrogant, cocky, and a bigger smartass.
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I want to just as much as some people want to turn it into a contest about who is more arrogant, cocky, and a bigger smartass.
No one said that either guy was more arrogant or cocky. Just that both guys are. However, you don't want to take off your blinders and admit that St. Aaron has his flaws.
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No one said that either guy was more arrogant or cocky. Just that both guys are. However, you don't want to take off your blinders and admit that St. Aaron has his flaws.
Talk about putting words in my mouth.
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I always find it interesting in these arguments that people are willing to pass judgement on how one person is off the field but be willing to defend the other as the opposite, despite never having met either of them.
Both QBs seem to be genuinely good dudes. People run into Rodgers in Milwaukee and he is gracious and friendly from the majority of stories Ive gotten. Cutler actually has a great reputation around the city from people who have actually met him. He's funny and engaging on his radio show, he does ALOT of charity work under the radar (visits children's hospital downtown near his apartment all the time with little fanfare) and is a goofy dude (remember the Ditka shirt from a early season presser? Its from one of the sports blogs that he has a back and forth with). They are both in the top 1% of what they do in the world, so naturally you're going to have an arrogance, confidence, and slanted view of self.
The difference, as mentioned ad nauseum, is Rodgers likes to play up the PR aspect of his position, and Cutler doesn't seem to put as much emphasis on it, especially when it comes to national media (which is a salient point as well as Cutler has a generally good relationship with Chicago sportswriters and the like).
I only get miffed, and defensive, as a Bears fan when people try to extrapolate that into Cutler being an overall douche and Rodgers being such a likeable guy. Who gives a damn what Tom Jackson says. Lets all go into your workplace and see you at times of extreme stress and challenge and make judgements about the rest of your life as a result.
I like Rodgers, I like Cutler, people needing to degrade one to be a fan of the other is just stupid
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Uh, pretty sure winning erases any image problems. Look at tom Brady this season. Bitches at his teammates, looks pissed on the sidelines, but no one makes a stink about him.
Maybe Cutler should try winning to change his image.
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Maybe Cutler should try winning to change his image.
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eddf45fddl/jay-cutler-2/
Lots of winners on this list who are disliked. Sometimes public perception is wrong, sometimes it isn't.
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anybody that mentions Todd Collins on this board again is a feckin dead man.
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The difference, as mentioned ad nauseum, is Rodgers likes to play up the PR aspect of his position, and Cutler doesn't seem to put as much emphasis on it, especially when it comes to national media (which is a salient point as well as Cutler has a generally good relationship with Chicago sportswriters and the like).
I only get miffed, and defensive, as a Bears fan when people try to extrapolate that into Cutler being an overall douche and Rodgers being such a likeable guy. Who gives a damn what Tom Jackson says. Lets all go into your workplace and see you at times of extreme stress and challenge and make judgements about the rest of your life as a result.
I like Rodgers, I like Cutler, people needing to degrade one to be a fan of the other is just stupid
What I find very interesting is that Bears fan will admit that Cutler can be a jerk but we defend him because he's OUR jerk. Packer fans are completely unwilling to even entertain the notion that Rodgers has some jerk-ish tendencies.
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What I find very interesting is that Bears fan will admit that Cutler can be a jerk but we defend him because he's OUR jerk. Packer fans are completely unwilling to even entertain the notion that Rodgers has some jerk-ish tendencies.
Well, duh. Nothing is wrong in Green Bay, ever.
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What I find very interesting is that Bears fan will admit that Cutler can be a jerk but we defend him because he's OUR jerk. Packer fans are completely unwilling to even entertain the notion that Rodgers has some jerk-ish tendencies.
Find me where anyone said that.
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Packer fans are completely unwilling to even entertain the notion that Rodgers has some jerk-ish tendencies.
Good lord. Learn to read.
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Find me where anyone said that.
Find me where any Packer fan admitted that Rodgers can be a jerk.
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Find me where any Packer fan admitted that Rodgers can be a jerk.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=39352.msg527530#msg527530
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http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=39352.msg527530#msg527530
"He clearly had an edge to him." I guess that's close.
Admittedly, I also found this (also from Sultan) but he also tries to justify with a "everyone else is too" and then calls Rodgers endearing. Awwww.
Can Rodgers be a douche? Sure. Every NFL quarterback can...and probably is. But the difference is that Rodgers seems to have plenty of moments where he is pretty endearing. You can't say that about Cutler.
You, Sultan, appear to be the exception to the rule.
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"He clearly had an edge to him." I guess that's close.
Admittedly, I also found this (also from Sultan) but he also tries to justify with a "everyone else is too" and then calls Rodgers endearing. Awwww.
Can Rodgers be a douche? Sure. Every NFL quarterback can...and probably is. But the difference is that Rodgers seems to have plenty of moments where he is pretty endearing. You can't say that about Cutler.
You, Sultan, appear to be the exception to the rule.
lmao, because that is the same thing in your world. Not a single person disagreed that he can be a douche so they must all think he isn't one ever!
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"He clearly had an edge to him." I guess that's close.
Admittedly, I also found this (also from Sultan) but he also tries to justify with a "everyone else is too" and then calls Rodgers endearing. Awwww.
Can Rodgers be a douche? Sure. Every NFL quarterback can...and probably is. But the difference is that Rodgers seems to have plenty of moments where he is pretty endearing. You can't say that about Cutler.
You, Sultan, appear to be the exception to the rule.
I also said that I didn't disagree with your statement: " Rodgers isn't exactly a real warm and fuzzy guy. He's a bit of an aloof, stand-offish guy as well."
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lmao, because that is the same thing in your world. Not a single person disagreed that he can be a douche so they must all think he isn't one ever!
Exactly. Logic fail.
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lmao, because that is the same thing in your world. Not a single person disagreed that he can be a douche so they must all think he isn't one ever!
Remember these comments:
I have never heard in the media that he is an arrogant, cocky, smartass. Literally zero times.
Would you hire an arrogant, cocky, smartass to be the face of your commercial campaign? I sure wouldn't.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14567073/twosecond-video-clip-doesnt-at-all-capture-rodgers
Yeah, what a total arrogant, cocky, smartass.
Get real.
When you say sarcastically "Yeah, what a total arrogant, cocky, smartass. Get real." That's you refusing to acknowledge that Rodgers can be an arrogant, cocky smartass. In fact, you claim that a person who thinks such things needs a reality check.
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anybody that mentions Todd Collins on this board again is a feckin dead man.
are you Incognito? ;D
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I also said that I didn't disagree with your statement: " Rodgers isn't exactly a real warm and fuzzy guy. He's a bit of an aloof, stand-offish guy as well."
Standoffish, yeah. Aloof, no.
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Soooo, as a Packer fan, I think I want Cutler and the Bears to do well on Sunday.
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Remember these comments:
I have never heard in the media that he is an arrogant, cocky, smartass. Literally zero times.
Would you hire an arrogant, cocky, smartass to be the face of your commercial campaign? I sure wouldn't.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14567073/twosecond-video-clip-doesnt-at-all-capture-rodgers
Yeah, what a total arrogant, cocky, smartass.
Get real.
When you say sarcastically "Yeah, what a total arrogant, cocky, smartass. Get real." That's you refusing to acknowledge that Rodgers can be an arrogant, cocky smartass. In fact, you claim that a person who thinks such things needs a reality check.
No, again you are misappropriating what I said. I said that I don't read about Rodgers being a arrogant, cocky, smartass anywhere. Neither do you. The one time the media tried to crucify him, they had to apologize because they jumped to a conclusion. I never refused to acknowledge that Rodgers can be those things. Not once.
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No Packers fans have said that Johnny Jolly has made some mistakes on Scoop, so us Packers fans must all think Johnny Jolly is a Saint! It was all a really good frame job. People are out to get the Packers.
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No, again you are misappropriating what I said. I said that I don't read about Rodgers being a arrogant, cocky, smartass anywhere. Neither do you. The one time the media tried to crucify him, they had to apologize because they jumped to a conclusion. I never refused to acknowledge that Rodgers can be those things. Not once.
I know what you wrote and I know that you're back-tracking now. Whatever. It doesn't matter. I'm done with this debate.
The whole point I was trying to make is that winning cures all. I find it interesting that if the outcome of one close game had gone the other way, the national perception of 2 players would be vastly different. That's it. Some may think that's myopic, others may think that playing the "what if" game is pointless. I don't care. You're entitled to your opinion. I, personally, find this case to be interesting.
Quick aside: Two years ago, LeBron was voted one of the most disliked athletes in the world. This season, he was voted Most Likable Player in the NBA. Hmm...what could have changed during that time?
Winning. Cures. All.
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I know what you wrote and I know that you're back-tracking now. Whatever. It doesn't matter. I'm done with this debate.
The whole point I was trying to make is that winning cures all. I find it interesting that if the outcome of one close game had gone the other way, the national perception of 2 players would be vastly different. That's it. Some may think that's myopic, others may think that playing the "what if" game is pointless. I don't care. You're entitled to your opinion. I, personally, find this case to be interesting.
Quick aside: Two years ago, LeBron was voted one of the most disliked athletes in the world. This season, he was voted Most Likable Player in the NBA. Hmm...what could have changed during that time?
Winning. Cures. All.
an aggressive marketing campaign to improve his image and time removed from his debacle announcement on espn
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I know what you wrote and I know that you're back-tracking now. Whatever. It doesn't matter. I'm done with this debate.
The whole point I was trying to make is that winning cures all. I find it interesting that if the outcome of one close game had gone the other way, the national perception of 2 players would be vastly different. That's it. Some may think that's myopic, others may think that playing the "what if" game is pointless. I don't care. You're entitled to your opinion. I, personally, find this case to be interesting.
Quick aside: Two years ago, LeBron was voted one of the most disliked athletes in the world. This season, he was voted Most Likable Player in the NBA. Hmm...what could have changed during that time?
Winning. Cures. All.
Not back tracking, I just don't like other people saying that I said things that I clearly did not.
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an aggressive marketing campaign to improve his image and time removed from his debacle announcement on espn
Winning two titles figures in there also
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Soooo, as a Packer fan, I think I want Cutler and the Bears to do well on Sunday.
Actually I think we would rather have Detroit win this one. The Packers have already beaten them. Assuming that Detroit wins on Sunday, and GB wins on Thanksgiving, the Packers would control their own destiny (assuming they beat Minnesota at Lambeau). However they still *might* be able to afford a loss in Chicago if all teams finish 4-2 in the division. It would then boil down to best record among common opponents. It gets complicated with all sorts of scenarios, but the Lions and Packers both lost to the Bengals (who Chicago beat), but Chicago lost to the Redskins (who the Packers and Lions both beat).
If Chicago wins, and both GB and Chicago win out in the division through the end of the year, that would mean that GB @ Chicago in week 17 is for the division title.
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Quick aside: Two years ago, LeBron was voted one of the most disliked athletes in the world. This season, he was voted Most Likable Player in the NBA. Hmm...what could have changed during that time?
Winning. Cures. All.
Lebron was likable before he won anything. His becoming unlikable had nothing to do with winning or losing. His rehabilitation was a result of a concerted and successful effort to show that the free agent fiasco was not who he really was. Winning helps, no doubt about it - but I don't think it "cures all".
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Lebron was likable before he won anything. His becoming unlikable had nothing to do with winning or losing. His rehabilitation was a result of a concerted and successful effort to show that the free agent fiasco was not who he really was. Winning helps, no doubt about it - but I don't think it "cures all".
Yeah....Lebron was likeable prior to "The Decision," and by and large people got over it. It helped that he remained likeable....and winning played a role too.
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None of this changes the fact that Cutler is kind of a douche.
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Actually I think we would rather have Detroit win this one. The Packers have already beaten them. Assuming that Detroit wins on Sunday, and GB wins on Thanksgiving, the Packers would control their own destiny (assuming they beat Minnesota at Lambeau). However they still *might* be able to afford a loss in Chicago if all teams finish 4-2 in the division. It would then boil down to best record among common opponents. It gets complicated with all sorts of scenarios, but the Lions and Packers both lost to the Bengals (who Chicago beat), but Chicago lost to the Redskins (who the Packers and Lions both beat).
If Chicago wins, and both GB and Chicago win out in the division through the end of the year, that would mean that GB @ Chicago in week 17 is for the division title.
Lions!
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None of this changes the fact that Cutler is kind of a douche.
Based on...?
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Based on...?
My overwhelming personal opinion.
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None of this changes the fact that Cutler is kind of a douche.
Because he doesn't kiss the media's ass he is a douche? Wake up.
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My overwhelming personal opinion.
And what evidence?
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And what evidence?
My humble opinion isn't enough?
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My humble opinion isn't enough?
You're opinion would be valid if you knew him personally. Do you? Or are you just going off what cameras show you or what media members propagate?
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You're opinion would be valid if you knew him personally. Do you? Or are you just going off what cameras show you or what media members propagate?
Dang. Stafford's kind of a douche though amirite?
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What is Ponder's prognosis, BTW? Congrats to Minny for winning a game nobody watched. Stafford is self-deprecating. See his remarks about his vertical leap as well as his comments on his girlish screaming while mic'd during the final drive in the Dallas game. He plays hurt. He accepts criticism. He heaps praise on Megatron. He is the best QB for the Lions during my lifetime. Admittedly, a low bar. Detroit's defense has to step up during the second half of the year.
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The season is definitely wide open now with Rodgers out. The best thing the NFL did was schedule division games in week 17 because it will come down to that.
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Creighton's gotta stop trollin'.
Stafford seems like a good guy. He's just got that Frat-Boy-Bro Look that leaves you with a bad first impression.
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Creighton's gotta stop trollin'.
Stafford seems like a good guy. He's just got that Frat-Boy-Bro Look that leaves you with a bad first impression.
I'm a diehard packer fan, its all in jest. It doesn't really matter what they do, its fun to hate on the divisional rivals.
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Are you saying that murder threats and threatening a player's family goes on? Just everyday stuff?
Hope you had a chance to hear Bill Romanowski this morning on Collin Cowherd. As he said, you can't believe the stuff that actually goes on. This is nothing.
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Hope you had a chance to hear Bill Romanowski this morning on Collin Cowherd. As he said, you can't believe the stuff that actually goes on. This is nothing.
I'm growing tired of current and former football players coming on line saying "it's just the locker room." The fact is the NFL locker room is a work place, and as such is subject to all sorts of laws and rules. There isn't a single person on Scoop who could get away with what Incognito did and expect to keep their job, much less keep their employer from being sued. The NFL isn't exempt. It isn't any more special or unique than hundreds of other professions. I wish dipsh*t former football players would stop pretending it is.
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Hope you had a chance to hear Bill Romanowski this morning on Collin Cowherd. As he said, you can't believe the stuff that actually goes on. This is nothing.
Oh. So if it's been done before, then it's okay now. It should never stop, for any reason.
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I'm growing tired of current and former football players coming on line saying "it's just the locker room." The fact is the NFL locker room is a work place, and as such is subject to all sorts of laws and rules. There isn't a single person on Scoop who could get away with what Incognito did and expect to keep their job, much less keep their employer from being sued. The NFL isn't exempt. It isn't any more special or unique than hundreds of other professions. I wish dipsh*t former football players would stop pretending it is.
+1. The meatheads need to quit being meatheads.
Same group of people that constantly say that high school football builds character/teamwork/values or that type of BS.
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Yeah, Romanowski would know. ::) I work in a high testosterone, highly insular profession where there is a constant low hum of sophomoric male bonding. I don't know what the inside of an NFL locker room looks like, but I know what the inside of a fire station looks like. Different words, same melody. Incognito has a long history of being an a-hole. Clearly, this time, the intent met up with the wrong recipient. A whole lot of stuff here that could have and should have been handled differently. When I have been on the receiving end of the abuse, when it gets too much, generally a quiet firm conversation suffices. There have been times when it hasn't and then things get tense for a while. From a dish-it-out perspective, which is what I usually do, knowing where the line is and when to stop is critical. Incognito didn't.
A few years back, we had a representative from our city's HR/EEOC department meet with our officers. She spent 2 hours lecturing us on harassment. Sexual, racial, the whole spectrum. ( For the record, before that meeting, my department had never had a complaint. We had one a couple of years later on our chief, but he shouldn't have been cheating on his wife with a female lieutenant. But that is another story.) She said something interesting late in the meeting that stuck with me and I believe is pertinent here.
I paraphrase: When harassment charges come up, we use the 'reasonable person' standard. Would a reasonable person be offended by what was said/done. But the reasonable standard clause is different for you in the fire stations than it is in an office. What you guys routinely say to each other is shocking and offensive, but you ALL do it and until now have known when to stop and where the line is for each other. We couldn't possibly act that way in my office, but it seems to almost be an important part of who you are and how you get through the day.
Incognito crossed the line. Even by the standards of an NFL locker room. But more importantly, as a leader, he didn't recognize it and stop himself.
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There have been times when it hasn't and then things get tense for a while.
You mean your bosses never told you to hit them back like the Dolphins did? The whole story is crazy in how much it has gone back and forth. Incognito was the bad guy, then his teammates support him and reports come out on how he was told to treat Martin like that. Now the new story about Incognito at the golf outing just adds to how blown up this has become.
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tower...excellent post. Thanks for the perspective.
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. Now the new story about Incognito at the golf outing just adds to how blown up this has become.
Is that the one where he "emptied a bottle of water on someone"?
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I have invited people who have crossed the line to meet me after the shift. I have also made the long term choice to bid a different station.
The guy who treated me the worst ultimately took a job as a deputy chief in another state where he was fired within a year after groping a female FF in a bar. He may or may not have been set up, but he was consistent in his treatment of others and karma eventually caught him.
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Yeah, Romanowski would know. ::) I work in a high testosterone, highly insular profession where there is a constant low hum of sophomoric male bonding. I don't know what the inside of an NFL locker room looks like, but I know what the inside of a fire station looks like. Different words, same melody. Incognito has a long history of being an a-hole.
Incognito crossed the line. Even by the standards of an NFL locker room. But more importantly, as a leader, he didn't recognize it and stop himself.
Agree, stepped over the line. Don't think anyone has said otherwise, have they? Naive, however, to ignore that it is part of the culture and this stuff goes on like you can't believe.
Don't understand your Romanowski comments at all. He was giving actual examples on the radio today, to the point that they had to do two drops because of the language he used. As I said earlier in this thread, I could tell you some pretty crazy stories from the last 15 years from the athletes we deal with, I'm sure Romanowski can tell some insane ones. He talked today of guys masterbating and what they would do with it, putting dog crap in lockers, shoes, etc, harrassing trainers due to sexual orientation, etc, etc. That was before they cut him off.
Yes, Romanowski would know, he was there to witness it. The stories he told were about San Francisco.
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Oh. So if it's been done before, then it's okay now. It should never stop, for any reason.
Whoa, where did I ever say that?
I was responding to Brandx's comment the other day as if what Incognito did was the worst he had ever heard. Like I said then, you can't believe some of the stuff going on, to which he said he doubted it is worse than this. I disagree, and glad to hear Romanowski come out and say it.
Never said I endorsed it, or whatever. I do think it is part of the culture, there are lines that get drawn, some are recognized by people and some aren't. What I find offensive, someone else might not. All that being said, it goes on and it goes on big time and people are naive as hell to think that the Incognito incident is ultimate example, as I said the other day. Threatening murder...hah....there are players out there that HAVE murdered and got away with it.
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Romanowski is not the best choice to be defending the locker room culture, IMO. Not considering his on field behavior and off-field PED use. I am not saying that he said anything inaccurate or wrong, just that he wouldn't be my first choice to interview. But I'm not a Cowherd fan anyway, so it is fairly moot.
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Is that the one where he "emptied a bottle of water on someone"?
Amongst other reported things, yes.
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Romanowski is not the best choice to be defending the locker room culture, IMO. Not considering his on field behavior and off-field PED use. I am not saying that he said anything inaccurate or wrong, just that he wouldn't be my first choice to interview. But I'm not a Cowherd fan anyway, so it is fairly moot.
He wasn't defending it. He was appalled by it. Said you can't believe what goes on.
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Whoa, where did I ever say that?
I was responding to Brandx's comment the other day as if what Incognito did was the worst he had ever heard. Like I said then, you can't believe some of the stuff going on, to which he said he doubted it is worse than this. I disagree, and glad to hear Romanowski come out and say it.
Never said I endorsed it, or whatever. I do think it is part of the culture, there are lines that get drawn, some are recognized by people and some aren't. What I find offensive, someone else might not. All that being said, it goes on and it goes on big time and people are naive as hell to think that the Incognito incident is ultimate example, as I said the other day. Threatening murder...hah....there are players out there that HAVE murdered and got away with it.
Fair enough. My apologies for jumping to conclusions. IMO, however, that doesn't mean it needs to, or should, continue. Like others have said, it's a workplace.
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You really want to turn this into a pointless charity-work/nice-guy pi$$ing contest? Cool.
There. Both guys do charity work and are genuinely decent guys. Glad we got that cleared up.
Only question that matters...Who would Bear fans prefer as their QB. Rodgers or Cutler?
Thought so.
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Only question that matters...Who would Bear fans prefer as their QB. Rodgers or Cutler?
Thought so.
I'm not disagreeing. But I think this discussion was about perceived appearance by the public.
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Wow, the last 5 pages of 'is Jay Cutler a jerk or not' conversation is scintillating stuff.
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Only question that matters...Who would Bear fans prefer as their QB. Rodgers or Cutler?
Thought so.
Such a wicked burn.
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If Cutler starts....... I predict Suh sacks him again and he re-injures his groin. The NFL finds a way to fine Suh for the hit. Another defensive injury for the Bears. Ouch. I am going to do something that I cannot ever remember doing before and predict the Lions win in Chicago. Too many injuries on defense catches up to the Bears and the Lions win a shootout. Having actually made that prediction, as a Lions fan I expect to be let down.
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Let's play football. I feel like these last five pages are a sports radio show I'd turn off quickly.
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I like Simmons' take on Martin/Incognito/NFL teams, especially the last two sentences...
"Unrelated: I have a good feel for anything that might mushroom into a massive sports story at this point, but the collective newspaper/Internet/sports-radio/talking-head reaction to Incognito vs. Martin blew me away. How did this become the most polarizing NFL story since Michael Vick came back from jail? And how does the story keep gaining steam? People are so fired up that there was angry shouting on "Mike & Mike" this week. Repeat: There was angry shouting on "Mike & Mike" this week!!!! On Monday, I thought the big takeaway would be "Oh yeah, I totally forgot — football players are dumb meatheads" and we'd be making jokes about Jonathan Martin wasting a perfectly good plate of spaghetti. Instead, it has launched the following story lines …
"How can we stop bullying in the workplace?"
"Did Miami's coaching staff order the Code Red?"
"Should people outside a locker room be allowed to tell people inside a locker room how to act?"
"What's the difference between being a leader and being an pretty boy?"
"Why did the Dolphins so steadfastly stick up for Incognito when he seems like such a humongous jerk? Is this like Stockholm syndrome?"
"What are the boundaries of racially charged teasing between teammates?"
"Should the locker room be like a family — in other words, what happens in the house stays in the house?"
"Wait, NFL players make rookies pay for everything? This really happens?"
"When one of the Mikes becomes upset on 'Mike & Mike,' should this be considered a national emergency?"
"What's going to happen to the Dolphins now? Can they recover from this?"
"Isn't there a certain irony in the bully culture of blogs/Twitter/message boards now rushing to the defense of Jonathan Martin and taking a strong stand against bullying?"
"Hey, all the ex-players on TV who keep saying that Martin needed to stand up for himself and punch Incognito when Martin clearly had mental issues know that they sound like insensitive Neanderthals, right?"
"How do we honor tradition and team building without crossing the line into hazing?"
"What does this story say about us?"
That's a whopping 14 story lines! On Grantland, we've already run two terrific takes — one by Brian Phillips, one by Andrew Sharp — and we probably could have run five or six more. Two lingering points stuck out for me. First, Sharp made a fantastic point about how we spent the past three decades deifying Michael Jordan … a homicidally competitive superstar who brutalized any teammate who didn't meet his lofty standards. What Jordan did to Kwame Brown, Brad Sellers and others wasn't any different from what Incognito did to Martin. I'm not saying this should alter MJ's legacy or anything. But we've seen bullying in sports since basically forever, and other than your occasional Real Sports/Outside the Lines/E:60 piece, nobody really cared until Martin vs. Incognito. Now? People care. Just feels like more and more people are going to be coming out with their stories. This ain't ending anytime soon.
And second, I'm endlessly fascinated by people who keep bringing up "the code" in football locker rooms like it's the military or something. I never played football past ninth grade, so I don't feel comfortable saying it's right or wrong. But more than a few ex-players genuinely believe that there's something to the whole "Everything that happens in the locker room NEEDS TO STAY IN THE LOCKER ROOM" thing, and that nobody can fully understand it unless they've played football. That this story ballooned during the same week as Tony Dorsett's heartbreaking CTE story meant something, I think. It's just becoming clearer and clearer that professional football is a profoundly messed-up sport. And yet we're still watching. "
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Why did Simmons limit it to professional football? Why not college, high school? Why not hockey? LaCrosse? Women's hoops, etc?
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Why did Simmons limit it to professional football? Why not college, high school? Why not hockey? LaCrosse? Women's hoops, etc?
You sound like a politician with the false equivalency argument. Everything is not equal.
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(http://corgipals.org/portals/0/Images/IMG_8021_thumb.JPG)
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(http://corgipals.org/portals/0/Images/IMG_8021_thumb.JPG)
The dog is gonna sue if he breaks his hind leg :-\
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You sound like a politician with the false equivalency argument. Everything is not equal.
It's about the children.....I didn't realize a concussed kid playing hockey was different than a concussed kid playing football. They're both concussed.
And you sound like today's press....you'll decide what gets equal treatment and if you don't like the other argument, you can fall back on the commentary that it's not the same, thus doesn't deserve equal time.
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It's about the children.....I didn't realize a concussed kid playing hockey was different than a concussed kid playing football. They're both concussed.
And you sound like today's press....you'll decide what gets equal treatment and if you don't like the other argument, you can fall back on the commentary that it's not the same, thus doesn't deserve equal time.
Ironic isn't it that the press and politicians are both controlled by the same entities?
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Why did Simmons limit it to professional football? Why not college, high school? Why not hockey? LaCrosse? Women's hoops, etc?
Because the NFL was the subject. Not sure why that would be difficult to understand.
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Because the NFL was the subject. Not sure why that would be difficult to understand.
Here I thought Simmons was a sports columnist, not a NFL columnist....my bad....
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Here I thought Simmons was a sports columnist, not a NFL columnist....my bad....
He is a sports columnist. He was writing a column about the NFL. I'm trying to figure out if you are being purposely obtuse again.
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Scott who?
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How did we not sign a QB? That is literally beyond belief. Not only does Wallace suck, but how can you only have a backup QB and a practice squad QB on your roster? You don't think Wallace could get hurt? Good preparation.
This could get ugly.
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He is a sports columnist. He was writing a column about the NFL. I'm trying to figure out if you are being purposely obtuse again.
I'm trying to understand why he isn't using his pretend outrage to cover all of the issue, not just one part. You do get 4 points for using obtuse in a sentence, however.
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Colts might be the biggest "play to the level of the competition" team i've ever seen.
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Jay being Jay. Loved those red zone interceptions. Better off with McCown under center.
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Scott who?
Vadger QB.
Aside from Wilson, who played one year for UW-madison and is really a product of NC State, the Vadgers haven't exactly lit the world on fired the last, oh, century in terms of QBs in the NFL.
Randy Wright
Brooks Bollinger
Neil Graff
Jim Sorgi
VanderKelen
Tolzien
I don't think Bevell ever even made a roster. Decent college QBs, but just have had a tough time in the NFL.
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"I'll kill you" from a guy with a violent criminal past who is considered the dirtiest player in the game.
Hardly playing "fast and loose".
Looks like Martin said the same thing to Incognito....do you think Martin was actually trying to kill Incognito's family or just playing "fast and loose"? :D
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9955599/richie-incognito-miami-dolphins-only-product-environment
"When words are put in a context, I understand why a lot of eyebrows get raised," Incognito told Fox Sports during the interview, which aired Sunday. "But people don't know how Jon and I communicate to one another. For instance, a week before this went down, Jonathan Martin texted me on my phone, 'I will murder your whole F'ing family.'
"Now, do I think Jonathan Martin was going to murder my family? Not one bit. He texted me that. I didn't think he was going to kill my family. I knew that was coming from a brother. I knew it was coming from a friend. I knew it was coming from a teammate."
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Jay being Jay. Loved those red zone interceptions. Better off with McCown under center.
One was clearly tipped.
If I were a Pack fan, I'd be much more concerned about the sinking ship that is Green Bay's season.
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Looks like Martin said the same thing to Incognito....do you think Martin was actually trying to kill Incognito's family or just playing "fast and loose"? :D
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9955599/richie-incognito-miami-dolphins-only-product-environment
"When words are put in a context, I understand why a lot of eyebrows get raised," Incognito told Fox Sports during the interview, which aired Sunday. "But people don't know how Jon and I communicate to one another. For instance, a week before this went down, Jonathan Martin texted me on my phone, 'I will murder your whole F'ing family.'
"Now, do I think Jonathan Martin was going to murder my family? Not one bit. He texted me that. I didn't think he was going to kill my family. I knew that was coming from a brother. I knew it was coming from a friend. I knew it was coming from a teammate."
Does Martin have the same violent past? I honestly don't know. I think that has to play into it.
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Vadger QB.
Aside from Wilson, who played one year for UW-madison and is really a product of NC State, the Vadgers haven't exactly lit the world on fired the last, oh, century in terms of QBs in the NFL.
Randy Wright
Brooks Bollinger
Neil Graff
Jim Sorgi
VanderKelen
Tolzien
I don't think Bevell ever even made a roster. Decent college QBs, but just have had a tough time in the NFL.
You obviously don't recall the glory days of Arnie Herber.
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One was clearly tipped.
If I were a Pack fan, I'd be much more concerned about the sinking ship that is Green Bay's season.
At some point, you run out of fingers and toes to plug all the holes.
Unless Rodgers has one of those Reggie White Jesus healings this week, they're toast.
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At some point, you run out of fingers and toes to plug all the holes.
Unless Rodgers has one of those Reggie White Jesus healings this week, they're toast.
I think they have to win the next two.
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Doesn't help that the Packer's defense is reverting to 2012 mode.
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Doesn't help that the Packer's defense is reverting to 2012 mode.
Even if Rodgers comes back soon, having Lions, Cowboys, Bears offenses still on the sked will not help.
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Bring back Cecil Isbell
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Does Martin have the same violent past? I honestly don't know. I think that has to play into it.
I'm going with fast and loose, either way. Do we know about Martin's past....seems very little mentioned about him.
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Even if Rodgers comes back soon, having Lions, Cowboys, Bears offenses still on the sked will not help.
With Rodgers back, the Pack will destroy the Cowboys "defense"
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Two absurd conversion calls, baffling.
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Pack it up. Shelve Cutler. Move up in the draft. Just my opinion.
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Two absurd conversion calls, baffling.
The first was a cliché. Roll the quarterback right and try to hit a receiver in the corner. The second was an attempt at deception that got blown up.
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If Cutler starts....... I predict Suh sacks him again and he re-injures his groin. The NFL finds a way to fine Suh for the hit. Another defensive injury for the Bears. Ouch. I am going to do something that I cannot ever remember doing before and predict the Lions win in Chicago. Too many injuries on defense catches up to the Bears and the Lions win a shootout. Having actually made that prediction, as a Lions fan I expect to be let down.
I came close. When they called roughing the passer on the first 2-point attempt, I was giddy, as I thought the Lions had found a new way to lose that I hadn't thought of. After all of these years, they continue to amaze with their creative and innovative ways to lose or attempt to lose.
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Pack it up. Shelve Cutler. Move up in the draft. Just my opinion.
2 points as a GB fan.
1. Please Jay - stay healthy
2. The defense was a bigger problem today than Rodgers injury. Capers reminds me of Tom Landry or Chuck Noll where the game has passed him by. The defense cannot make the adjustments to improve in the 2nd half of games.
3. I think we can feel more comfortable with Tolzien as the backup this offseason rather than Harrell or Wallace or Young or Coleman
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NO!
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2 points as a GB fan.
1. Please Jay - stay healthy
2. The defense was a bigger problem today than Rodgers injury. Capers reminds me of Tom Landry or Chuck Noll where the game has passed him by. The defense cannot make the adjustments to improve in the 2nd half of games.
3. I think we can feel more comfortable with Tolzien as the backup this offseason rather than Harrell or Wallace or Young or Coleman
I agree completely on 2 or 3. I feel much better about Tolzien...but that defense is just terrible. I think it is time for a new look there.
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Green Bay's defense is just as beat up as their offense. Hard to be critical when the top 3 pass rushers are all injured. GB has overcome injuries before and played well. This year, it just isn't happening. Look what happened to Indy today. Sometimes, enough injuries reach critical mass and the on-field product spirals.
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As I said the other day, I thought it would be a big challenge to win 2 of 3. I think it will be a big challenge to win 1 of 3 quite frankly. After Rodgers gets back, you'll likely win all of those. Finish 10-6.
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As I said the other day, I thought it would be a big challenge to win 2 of 3. I think it will be a big challenge to win 1 of 3 quite frankly. After Rodgers gets back, you'll likely win all of those. Finish 10-6.
Won't mean a thing, as the Lions are going to run away with the North.
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Dish, if there is a way to screw up a wet dream, the Lions will find it. 6-3 is nice, but it only means that they don't lose 11 games. Any other team in the same situation, I agree with you. But history shows that the Lions find a way.
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Dish, if there is a way to screw up a wet dream, the Lions will find it. 6-3 is nice, but it only means that they don't lose 11 games. Any other team in the same situation, I agree with you. But history shows that the Lions find a way.
Normally I would agree, but the rest of their sked looks like a Marquette non conf buy game sked. Easiest in league. Tiebreaker over Bears, win on Thanksgiving gives them all NFC North tiebreakers (assuming here they beat Vikes again, but even that game could be meaningless).
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@Pittsburgh
vs Tampa
vs Green Bay
@ Philadelphia
vs Baltimore
vs NY Giants
@ Minnesota
Anywhere from 8-8 to 12-4. 20 years since Detroit last won the division. If there is a way to mess it up, they will. Of course, for Detroit to lose it, Chicago or GB have to play well enough to win it. That may be the bigger challenge.
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Won't mean a thing, as the Lions are going to run away with the North.
North has quickly turned into a giant suckfest.
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As I said the other day, I thought it would be a big challenge to win 2 of 3. I think it will be a big challenge to win 1 of 3 quite frankly. After Rodgers gets back, you'll likely win all of those. Finish 10-6.
Agreed. I think the packers may end up being unbeatable the last couple weeks of the season when we get healthy, but by then it won't matter. Just hoping for wild card right now.
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Agreed. I think the packers may end up being unbeatable the last couple weeks of the season when we get healthy, but by then it won't matter. Just hoping for wild card right now.
I thought that, but I'm not sure. Are they ever going to really be healthy? Finley obviously won't be back, will Cobb be fully healthy and the same player he was when he comes back? When does he come back? Does the defense get healthy? If they get healthy, do they turn it back around (I felt like they were much improved early in the season, as of the last few weeks they look exactly like they did last year)? I hope you're right, but I just don't know that the Packers get back to healthy.
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Won't mean a thing, as the Lions are going to run away with the North.
They might, but they aren't that good either quite frankly.
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That Panthers win today was gigantic in the NFC playoff picture. That win really hurts the Packers (assuming one thinks they have hope).
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Dish, in light of this season so far... any clue what the Bears are going to do with Cutler before next season?
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I came close. When they called roughing the passer on the first 2-point attempt, I was giddy, as I thought the Lions had found a new way to lose that I hadn't thought of. After all of these years, they continue to amaze with their creative and innovative ways to lose or attempt to lose.
From stupid penalties to stupid play-calling, Detroit did all they could to give that game away but the Bears weren't much better. How big was the decision in the 1st half when the Bears went for it on 4th and short instead of taking the 44-yard FG? Both 2-point try plays were awful as well. Not Tresman's best day.
The worst decision from Trestman was leaving Cutler in the game for as long as he did. By the third quarter, the guy couldn't move, couldn't plant and his throws were all arm. He had no business still being in the game at that point. Cutler at about 90% is better than McCown at 100%, but Cutler at 60% needs to be on the sidelines.
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Dish, in light of this season so far... any clue what the Bears are going to do with Cutler before next season?
98% chance he gets franchised.
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98% chance he gets franchised.
1% chance the Bears make a SB run leading to a long-term deal and 1% that Trestman decides he wants to go in a different direction?
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1% chance the Bears make a SB run leading to a long-term deal and 1% that Trestman decides he wants to go in a different direction?
I think they can franchise him for 2 years if they want - lot smarter than committing over $100 mil long term.
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They might, but they aren't that good either quite frankly.
Yup. Right now they are the tallest midget in their division. But you can say that about most of the league. I have seen maybe 4 teams that I would classify as 'good' (Seattle, NO, Denver, haven't watched the Chiefs yet) and a whole bunch of flawed teams. This year, things are falling into place for the Lions. Last year, they lost a ton of close games. This year, they are winning them. Same flawed team. One difference-making play per game they weren't getting last year.
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McGinn was floating the possibility that Capers could be let go this week. I really don't think that happens, but regardless I think he is done after this year.
I still think their biggest problem out there is their inability to replace Nick Collins with a competent safety. I think he played a much bigger role than was given credit for. Another issue they are going to have to face is their best corner right now is Shields...and he's a FA after this year. As is Raji.
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I'm going with fast and loose, either way. Do we know about Martin's past....seems very little mentioned about him.
not sure it matters to you, but martin didn't text him those words. he sent him a meme. which, imo, is completely different.
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not sure it matters to you, but martin didn't text him those words. he sent him a meme. which, imo, is completely different.
How so?
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not sure it matters to you, but martin didn't text him those words. he sent him a meme. which, imo, is completely different.
My guess is if Incognito had sent him a meme threatening to kill his whole family, that would have been viewed differently. I would be shocked if Incognito even knows what a meme is. LOL.
Note that Incognito said he didn't take Martin seriously, nor should he. Fast and loose....It's what these knuckleheads do. The way some people are coming down on this you would think Incognito murdered scores of people in the past....erh or at least one thus his stupid (fast and loose) comments should be taken literally, when they shouldn't.
I still find it interesting that the Dolphins players are siding with Incognito on this. Interesting psychology study.
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My guess is if Incognito had sent him a meme threatening to kill his whole family, that would have been viewed differently. I would be shocked if Incognito even knows what a meme is. LOL.
Note that Incognito said he didn't take Martin seriously, nor should he. Fast and loose....It's what these knuckleheads do. The way some people are coming down on this you would think Incognito murdered scores of people in the past....erh or at least one thus his stupid (fast and loose) comments should be taken literally, when they shouldn't.
I still find it interesting that the Dolphins players are siding with Incognito on this. Interesting psychology study.
Probably didn't take Jack Limbaugh seriously either (another guy who left the field after being bullied by Incognito). Probably didn't take the golf volunteer seriously either (who was paid to keep quiet when he assaulted her). Probably didn't take the 3 college coaches who suspended him or kicked him off the team seriously either.
For that matter, he probably didn't take the guys he assaulted in college seriously either.
I don't find it surprising that Dolphins players side with him - at least as long as the people he assaults are not their wives or sons or daughters.
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Probably didn't take Jack Limbaugh seriously either (another guy who left the field after being bullied by Incognito). Probably didn't take the golf volunteer seriously either (who was paid to keep quiet when he assaulted her). Probably didn't take the 3 college coaches who suspended him or kicked him off the team seriously either.
For that matter, he probably didn't take the guys he assaulted in college seriously either.
I don't find it surprising that Dolphins players side with him - at least as long as the people he assaults are not their wives or sons or daughters.
Not surprising at all. It's simple psychology: Side with the bully or become his next target.
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Not surprising at all. It's simple psychology: Side with the bully or become his next target.
+1 It's amazing the same thing happens with these big strong guys (intimidating a 300+ man) as with kids on the playground
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Why in God's name are people surprised when the violence they encourage with their $ and their adulation doesn't stay neatly confined to the boundaries of the playing field? The drugs the players take to become bigger, stronger and more angry (violent) don't mysteriously leave their systems when the final whistle blows on Sunday. The "culture" in NFL locker rooms would shock most fans but it shouldn't - they're getting what they paid for.
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Cutler out next week (vs Ravens) - high ankle sprain. Tillman to the IR. So... how high can we get our draft pick?
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Cutler out next week (vs Ravens) - high ankle sprain. Tillman to the IR. So... how high can we get our draft pick?
Again, Cutler being out only helps this Bears team. Not sure how often I will say that. McCown had 1 drive last week. What happened? A touchdown. Coincidence? Not really.
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Why in God's name are people surprised when the violence they encourage with their $ and their adulation doesn't stay neatly confined to the boundaries of the playing field? The drugs the players take to become bigger, stronger and more angry (violent) don't mysteriously leave their systems when the final whistle blows on Sunday. The "culture" in NFL locker rooms would shock most fans but it shouldn't - they're getting what they paid for.
The culture in NFL locker rooms is not significantly different than that in military organizations, police departments, other professional sports, any occupation that is predominantly male, high in machismo, and requires trust of the person next to you. There is profanity, inappropriateness, obscenities, insults, more insults, vulgarity, all sorts of things that don't easily translate in the outside world outside. Sometimes, lines get crossed and limits are exceeded. At all levels. Versions of this story happen in all of the above listed places, in locker rooms from junior high school on up. When the lines are ignored there are victims. And when the lines are crossed too far, the perpetrators have to pay the price. But this culture is never going to be obliterated.
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The culture in NFL locker rooms is not significantly different than that in military organizations, police departments, other professional sports, any occupation that is predominantly male, high in machismo, and requires trust of the person next to you. There is profanity, inappropriateness, obscenities, insults, more insults, vulgarity, all sorts of things that don't easily translate in the outside world outside. Sometimes, lines get crossed and limits are exceeded. At all levels. Versions of this story happen in all of the above listed places, in locker rooms from junior high school on up. When the lines are ignored there are victims. And when the lines are crossed too far, the perpetrators have to pay the price. But this culture is never going to be obliterated.
And it probably shouldn't be....as long as it's adaptable to newcomers, the lines aren't crossed all that often, and doesn't denigrate into some sort of "code of silence."
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I want you on that wall, we need you on that wall!!
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GB sign Flynn. Desperate times....
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The culture in NFL locker rooms is not significantly different than that in military organizations, police departments, other professional sports, any occupation that is predominantly male, high in machismo, and requires trust of the person next to you. There is profanity, inappropriateness, obscenities, insults, more insults, vulgarity, all sorts of things that don't easily translate in the outside world outside. Sometimes, lines get crossed and limits are exceeded. At all levels. Versions of this story happen in all of the above listed places, in locker rooms from junior high school on up. When the lines are ignored there are victims. And when the lines are crossed too far, the perpetrators have to pay the price. But this culture is never going to be obliterated.
You have experience with military organizations? Because I would disagree in 2013.
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Cutler out next week (vs Ravens) - high ankle sprain. Tillman to the IR. So... how high can we get our draft pick?
I wouldn't get too pumped on this draft pick thing. By that I mean they'll end up picking any where from probably 14-20. This is not turning into a top 10 pick, if (big if) they somehow made the playoffs, likely trounced.
Half their roster is turning over this offseason, that's the biggest concern.
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Again, Cutler being out only helps this Bears team. Not sure how often I will say that. McCown had 1 drive last week. What happened? A touchdown. Coincidence? Not really.
You can keep saying it, but it's still wrong.
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I wouldn't get too pumped on this draft pick thing. By that I mean they'll end up picking any where from probably 14-20. This is not turning into a top 10 pick, if (big if) they somehow made the playoffs, likely trounced.
Half their roster is turning over this offseason, that's the biggest concern.
I've been in the "Bears should franchise Cutler" camp to this point, but seeing it put the way you did makes me realize what an unbelievably difficult decision it actually is. Though not particularly deep at this point, the offense is pretty solid, but the question becomes can they put the defense back together in time to take advantage of it? Will Cutler hold up long enough to make franchising him worthwhile? Hes not old, but he's obviously not getting any younger. The QB class appears deep, but that's one less draft pick you can use on defense. Very tough call.
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I've been in the "Bears should franchise Cutler" camp to this point, but seeing it put the way you did makes me realize what an unbelievably difficult decision it actually is. Though not particularly deep at this point, the offense is pretty solid, but the question becomes can they put the defense back together in time to take advantage of it? Will Cutler hold up long enough to make franchising him worthwhile? Hes not old, but he's obviously not getting any younger. The QB class appears deep, but that's one less draft pick you can use on defense. Very tough call.
Therein lies the problem. Emery would have liked to draft a QB in the last couple of years, but there were just too many holes to fill that the team couldn't afford to use even a 5-7 Round pick on a guy who was going to be inactive and running the scout team every week. That said, they only have 3 of their 6 picks from 2012 Draft still on the roster. Selecting Kirk Cousins or Nick Foles in Round 3 (instead of DB Brandon Hardin who never played a regular season game with the Bears) wouldn't look too bad in 20/20 hindsight.
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And there aren't a ton of high caliber starting QBs floating around. So as stated, this won't be a high pick, so do you risk dropping Cutler to end up with a less than top 3-5 QB in the class and McCown/Josh Freeman/Mark Sanchez/insert other reject QB. McCown has been great but there is a reason he was out of football and not a starting NFL QB.
At least I can be glad that the McCown over Cutler chatter is comparing healthy vs a reaggrevated groin and ankle, cause they were totally apples to apples.
Also, gotta love Marshall saying what everyone knows and was thinking about the Lions being dirty. My biggest fear was not that Cutler was ready to play, it was that he wasn't 100% healed and Fairley and Suh would be doing everything they could to take shots at him. Like deciding to rise as he was stepping over them and making sure to fall right on top of him. That team is so completely unlikeable on the defensive side of the ball.
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The Bears have to franchise Cutler. There is absolutely no way they can let him go, and McCown is clearly just a stop gap. Most back ups turn into Matt Flynn after more exposure...not Kurt Warner.
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And there aren't a ton of high caliber starting QBs floating around. So as stated, this won't be a high pick, so do you risk dropping Cutler to end up with a less than top 3-5 QB in the class and McCown/Josh Freeman/Mark Sanchez/insert other reject QB. McCown has been great but there is a reason he was out of football and not a starting NFL QB.
At least I can be glad that the McCown over Cutler chatter is comparing healthy vs a reaggrevated groin and ankle, cause they were totally apples to apples.
Also, gotta love Marshall saying what everyone knows and was thinking about the Lions being dirty. My biggest fear was not that Cutler was ready to play, it was that he wasn't 100% healed and Fairley and Suh would be doing everything they could to take shots at him. Like deciding to rise as he was stepping over them and making sure to fall right on top of him. That team is so completely unlikeable on the defensive side of the ball.
Lions a dirty team? The hell you say.
Look no further than the head coach
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The Bears have to franchise Cutler. There is absolutely no way they can let him go, and McCown is clearly just a stop gap. Most back ups turn into Matt Flynn after more exposure...not Kurt Warner.
I can't see it even though what you say in the last sentence is right. Cutler is going to want $15-$20 million and you cripple your teams future when you pay that for an average QB.
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I can't see it even though what you say in the last sentence is right. Cutler is going to want $15-$20 million and you cripple your teams future when you pay that for an average QB.
You don't have to give him the long term contract. Just franchise him and work something out.
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I can't see it even though what you say in the last sentence is right. Cutler is going to want $15-$20 million and you cripple your teams future when you pay that for an average QB.
Whether you think Cutler is average, above average or below average, he's still better than anyone else who will be out there, which means it would be hard to let him walk. On top of that, he seems to be Trestman's guy.
If the team decides to go in a different direction, they can franchise him and then work out a trade with someone who will give him a long-term deal and send picks the Bears' way. Highly unlikely that he's not back though.
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Whether you think Cutler is average, above average or below average, he's still better than anyone else who will be out there, which means it would be hard to let him walk. On top of that, he seems to be Trestman's guy.
If the team decides to go in a different direction, they can franchise him and then work out a trade with someone who will give him a long-term deal and send picks the Bears' way. Highly unlikely that he's not back though.
Agreed on this. This is a league that's seen guys like Blaine Gabbert, Geno Smith/Mark Sanchez, Terrell Pryor, Christian Ponder etc. as a team's go to starting QB to start the season. Cutler is head and shoulders above any of those options. He not only gives you a chance to not lose, he's a guy that can actually make the throws to win a game.
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Agreed on this. This is a league that's seen guys like Blaine Gabbert, Geno Smith/Mark Sanchez, Terrell Pryor, Christian Ponder etc. as a team's go to starting QB to start the season. Cutler is head and shoulders above any of those options. He not only gives you a chance to not lose, he's a guy that can actually make the throws to win a game.
And that's why quarterbacks are overpaid. Not only are they obviously very important, its because the alternative to not having even a decent one is very bleak. I would say that outside of a franchise NBA player, there is no more an important individual position in professional sports that determines the success of a team. And considering a franchise basketball player is only one of five players on the floor, and a quarterback is 1 of 11, that should tell you something.
Then you have to consider the absolute luck in getting one...or the work that you have to do to train even a decent one. The Packers hit the lottery twice...so have the Colts. Some franchises wander in the wilderness for years...the post Marino Dolphins, the Browns...and the Bears are the poster child. They have to hold onto Cutler because the alternatives at this point are frightening.
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Yes, pressuring the quarterback is a new concept, unique to the Lions, and they should be ashamed, ashamed I say, to have attempted to lay their filthy hands on an already injured, immobile quarterback. ::) Detroit's D-line is under a microscope. Every play that could have been called a penalty on them was called. I, too, am glad to hear Marshall's comments. It tells the Lions everything they need to know about him.
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Yes, pressuring the quarterback is a new concept, unique to the Lions, and they should be ashamed, ashamed I say, to have attempted to lay their filthy hands on an already injured, immobile quarterback. ::) Detroit's D-line is under a microscope. Every play that could have been called a penalty on them was called. I, too, am glad to hear Marshall's comments. It tells the Lions everything they need to know about him.
Marshall's always complaining about the teams that are beating up on the Bears. He even had a cute press conference with a dead mini Christmas tree on the table to talk about beating the Packers last year. Nothing to see there.
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This upcoming Bears offseason is going to be fascinating. They have 27 players signed for 2014, that's it. That number includes Peppers, who will be released post June 1st, so the Bears can push the $8 mil dead money over 2 seasons. That'll save them the a $14 mil cap hit. Probably cutting Bush too, saving them $1.8 mil.
That means they'd have 25 players signed. I believe they have all 7 picks next year (I'm getting old, sick all week). That would give them 32 players...which means they have to sign 60 plus players...just to go to training camp.
By virtue, you have to franchise Cutler. Navin made a solid few points that I didn't think of (props to him), because it is complicated by the above. On one hand, you don't have the time to develop another guy based on where the offense is now. On the opposite hand, you don't have the resources, because you have so many positions to fill on your roster. You need a franchise QB, but is Cutler (at his age now) going to be worth that commitment? For the next year, I just don't think they have another route. But that's compounded because I don't know how they can take a QB high next year in the draft, when all (correct) logic suggests they should. Their safety play and d-line play is atrocious. Heck, they're entire D at every spot needs major, major help.
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Yes, pressuring the quarterback is a new concept, unique to the Lions, and they should be ashamed, ashamed I say, to have attempted to lay their filthy hands on an already injured, immobile quarterback. ::) Detroit's D-line is under a microscope. Every play that could have been called a penalty on them was called. I, too, am glad to hear Marshall's comments. It tells the Lions everything they need to know about him.
I wouldn't say the Lions are necessarily dirty. More like undisciplined and/or stupid. They may or may not be under a microscope, but it's because of past bad behavior, not conspiracy. Their reputation, like most reputations, is well earned.
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Yes, pressuring the quarterback is a new concept, unique to the Lions, and they should be ashamed, ashamed I say, to have attempted to lay their filthy hands on an already injured, immobile quarterback. ::) Detroit's D-line is under a microscope. Every play that could have been called a penalty on them was called. I, too, am glad to hear Marshall's comments. It tells the Lions everything they need to know about him.
Fairley had a pretty cheap takedown of Cutler in a mass of bodies long after the ball left his hand that was a clear PF but wasn't called. Kyle Long definitely thought so.
(http://simmqb.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/bears-lions-week-10-cutler-fairley.jpg?w=800&h=553)
As Lenny said, the Lions aren't necessarily dirty. They're just stupid and undisciplined, from the coaching staff on down. I just hope the Bears benefit from the Lions' inevitable collapse and not that Packers.
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I didn't get to watch the game... can someone tell me what happened right before half. Bears had the ball inside the lions ten, and then espn gamecast went crazy and locked up for 5 minutes.
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Whether you think Cutler is average, above average or below average, he's still better than anyone else who will be out there, which means it would be hard to let him walk. On top of that, he seems to be Trestman's guy.
If the team decides to go in a different direction, they can franchise him and then work out a trade with someone who will give him a long-term deal and send picks the Bears' way. Highly unlikely that he's not back though.
I think that is exactly what I wrote - you can franchise him for 2 years I believe - gives you time to find a replacement and you're only giving big money for those 2 years rather than adding a long-term deal.
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I agree with undisciplined. BTW, Matty Flynn back to the Packers?
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This upcoming Bears offseason is going to be fascinating. They have 27 players signed for 2014, that's it. That number includes Peppers, who will be released post June 1st, so the Bears can push the $8 mil dead money over 2 seasons. That'll save them the a $14 mil cap hit. Probably cutting Bush too, saving them $1.8 mil.
That means they'd have 25 players signed. I believe they have all 7 picks next year (I'm getting old, sick all week). That would give them 32 players...which means they have to sign 60 plus players...just to go to training camp.
By virtue, you have to franchise Cutler. Navin made a solid few points that I didn't think of (props to him), because it is complicated by the above. On one hand, you don't have the time to develop another guy based on where the offense is now. On the opposite hand, you don't have the resources, because you have so many positions to fill on your roster. You need a franchise QB, but is Cutler (at his age now) going to be worth that commitment? For the next year, I just don't think they have another route. But that's compounded because I don't know how they can take a QB high next year in the draft, when all (correct) logic suggests they should. Their safety play and d-line play is atrocious. Heck, they're entire D at every spot needs major, major help.
Can Peanut play safety?
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I agree with undisciplined. BTW, Matty Flynn back to the Packers?
Back up. Seneca Wallace goes on IR. If he does OK, my guess is that Tolzien is the primary back up next year.
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Can Peanut play safety?
Gets asked a lot, I think he could. I actually think a few years ago would have made more sense. In a way, with where he is physically now at his age, I think CB makes more sense from him. Interesting to see if he'll be back. Bears may offer him a two year deal to entice him back. I know with what his daughter has been through medically, he really isn't interested in leaving Chicago.
I know it's not Thompson's nature, but Tillman would be a hell of a pick up by the Pack. I guess though that depends on Capers future.
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I know it's not Thompson's nature, but Tillman would be a hell of a pick up by the Pack. I guess though that depends on Capers future.
To be honest, that is why I asked.
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Can Peanut play safety?
Tillman is a free agent after the season - at age 33 and with injuries piling up last 2-3 years, he won't be back unless it is at a much lower salary. He may have a good year or two left - so maybe someone will give him a deal.
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Back up. Seneca Wallace goes on IR. If he does OK, my guess is that Tolzien is the primary back up next year.
Hope so
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This upcoming Bears offseason is going to be fascinating. They have 27 players signed for 2014, that's it. That number includes Peppers, who will be released post June 1st, so the Bears can push the $8 mil dead money over 2 seasons. That'll save them the a $14 mil cap hit. Probably cutting Bush too, saving them $1.8 mil.
That means they'd have 25 players signed. I believe they have all 7 picks next year (I'm getting old, sick all week). That would give them 32 players...which means they have to sign 60 plus players...just to go to training camp.
By virtue, you have to franchise Cutler. Navin made a solid few points that I didn't think of (props to him), because it is complicated by the above. On one hand, you don't have the time to develop another guy based on where the offense is now. On the opposite hand, you don't have the resources, because you have so many positions to fill on your roster. You need a franchise QB, but is Cutler (at his age now) going to be worth that commitment? For the next year, I just don't think they have another route. But that's compounded because I don't know how they can take a QB high next year in the draft, when all (correct) logic suggests they should. Their safety play and d-line play is atrocious. Heck, they're entire D at every spot needs major, major help.
Wanna complicate it even further...lets say they do pay and stick with Cutler for the immediate-term, and a guy like Manziel, or Hundly from UCLA is on the board when the Bears pick comes up, or Bridgewater falls A la Aaron Rodgers. Now what do you do?
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Wanna complicate it even further...lets say they do pay and stick with Cutler for the immediate-term, and a guy like Manziel, or Hundly from UCLA is on the board when the Bears pick comes up, or Bridgewater falls A la Aaron Rodgers. Now what do you do?
Depends how brave Emery is. GB had no plans to take a QB in the 1st round until Aaron became available.
One of hardest parts of job is assessing current vs. future needs.
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To be honest, that is why I asked.
As a Bears fan, I would hate it, but the football fan in me would love that move. At least at CB, if he was on the Pack, for the next 2 years, putting him out there opposite Megatron and Marshall would be a brilliant move.
It really depends on where he is at physically. He's been hurt all season, and now on IR. I just don't think he wants to play safety. He knows at this point he's best skill set is as a cover corner, and I think he'll want that assurance from some team.
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Depends how brave Emery is. GB had no plans to take a QB in the 1st round until Aaron became available.
One of hardest parts of job is assessing current vs. future needs.
He'd have to be brave but, more importantly, he'd have to think VERY highly of the QB available. When your team has holes, you can't afford to draft Brady Quinn in the 1st Round when you already have a potential long-term QB on the roster.
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He'd have to be brave but, more importantly, he'd have to think VERY highly of the QB available. When your team has holes, you can't afford to draft Brady Quinn in the 1st Round when you already have a potential long-term QB on the roster.
He's going to have to trade down, just to get picks he can control. It's a numbers game at this point. Anyone clamoring for a top 15 pick, better realize Emery will probably try to trade out and back. Good news is the draft has some talent, and any draft with QB's getting first round grades leads to more deals.
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Wanna complicate it even further...lets say they do pay and stick with Cutler for the immediate-term, and a guy like Manziel, or Hundly from UCLA is on the board when the Bears pick comes up, or Bridgewater falls A la Aaron Rodgers. Now what do you do?
Hundley has a way to go. I watch \ go to all of their games. Love the kid, but it would be a big mistake for him to come out this year. He's a year away still.
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If you love the strategy of football as much as I do, watch this piece. It sounds video gameish, but fascinated me. I've thought about the no punt strategy before, but the fact that this guy onside kicks every time, and the theory behind it, makes total sense to me. I love stuff like this.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9970245/grantland-channel-coach-never-punts
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If you love the strategy of football as much as I do, watch this piece. It sounds video gameish, but fascinated me. I've thought about the no punt strategy before, but the fact that this guy onside kicks every time, and the theory behind it, makes total sense to me. I love stuff like this.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9970245/grantland-channel-coach-never-punts
Get the book, Scorecasting. Wonderful book, gets into every sport and they have a bunch of stuff on the whole punt or not punt stuff, always going for 2 points, etc. Some great basketball and baseball stuff in there as well.
http://www.amazon.com/Scorecasting-Hidden-Influences-Behind-Sports/dp/0307591808
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I see where Favre is now having memory issues. Also says he wouldn't want his son (if he had one) playing football.
I think this is just another story in the drip, drip, drip that we will hear over the coming years and that will do damage to the game on a long-term basis.
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I see where Favre is now having memory issues. Also says he wouldn't want his son (if he had one) playing football.
I think this is just another story in the drip, drip, drip that we will hear over the coming years and that will do damage to the game on a long-term basis.
Like these?
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/9975540/researchers-inundated-requests-former-college-pro-football-players-tested-cte
http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/9966789/charles-youvella-arizona-high-school-football-player-dies-brain-injury-suffered-game
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I see where Favre is now having memory issues. Also says he wouldn't want his son (if he had one) playing football.
I think this is just another story in the drip, drip, drip that we will hear over the coming years and that will do damage to the game on a long-term basis.
I see where 85% would let their kids play football, but you guys want to focus on the 15%.
http://usafootball.com/news/players/poll-85-percent-parents-would-let-children-play-football
Bob Costas, however, wouldn't let his son play football which is perhaps the most SHOCKING thing I have ever read in my life. :o Of course, Bob doesn't have a son so we all lose out on what could have been the next Heisman trophy winner.
Dr. Julian Bailes, Pittsburgh Steelers neurosurgeon, allows his 10 year old son to play.
Different strokes for different folks.
Current Sports Nation Poll of 60K participants has 69% would let their kids play football, 31% would not.
Different strokes for different folks.
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I see where 85% would let their kids play football, but you guys want to focus on the 15%.
http://usafootball.com/news/players/poll-85-percent-parents-would-let-children-play-football
Current Sports Nation Poll of 60K participants has 69% would let their kids play football, 31% would not.
These numbers don't sound so bad - except - I can only imagine how much different the numbers were 10 years ago. And which way it is trending.
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I see where 85% would let their kids play football, but you guys want to focus on the 15%.
http://usafootball.com/news/players/poll-85-percent-parents-would-let-children-play-football
Bob Costas, however, wouldn't let his son play football which is perhaps the most SHOCKING thing I have ever read in my life. :o Of course, Bob doesn't have a son so we all lose out on what could have been the next Heisman trophy winner.
Dr. Julian Bailes, Pittsburgh Steelers neurosurgeon, allows his 10 year old son to play.
Different strokes for different folks.
Current Sports Nation Poll of 60K participants has 69% would let their kids play football, 31% would not.
Different strokes for different folks.
If football starts guaranteeing full contracts, that 15% might shrink to 5%.
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Going to be a wild day. Ton of precautions in place at Soldier. Guessing this game gets delayed multiple times. Really strong storm due to hit around 12:15. Evacuation plans in place.
Buffalo, Cincy, Pittsburgh all going to have nasty weather.
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Soldier field evacuated. How long can a game be suspended before it is restarted? Also, after watching something similar yesterday..... If a field goal/extra point crosses the plane of the crossbar but is then blown back into the endzone, is it counted as good or no good?
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This is exactly why I think it's far from a given that the Lions win the NFC North. Jim Schwartz is a complete hot head who makes some awful decisions, and his team carries on his mentality. Fake field goal up by 4 points in the 4th quarter? Are you kidding me?! Absolutely, completely insane.
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It will cost Detroit this game. But hey, it is a new and creative way to lose. And that is what keeps the Lion fan going. What insane way will they find to lose?
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This is exactly why I think it's far from a given that the Lions win the NFC North. Jim Schwartz is a complete hot head who makes some awful decisions, and his team carries on his mentality. Fake field goal up by 4 points in the 4th quarter? Are you kidding me?! Absolutely, completely insane.
Exactly!! Pathetic call. If you are up by 3 then it's a decent decision to go for it. But by 4? A classic Jim Schwartz call.
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Detroit adding to their league-leading number of drops sure didn't help. Imagine Stafford's numbers if he had competent receivers other than Megatron.
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The Packers might not pick up a first down today.
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And then the Packers run a fake punt and fail. Trying to gain 7 yards with your backup safety catching the ball 4 yards behind the line of scrimmage and your special teams unit trying to block usually works out pretty well.
Game plan is awful for the Packers today. You have Scott Tolzien under center and you're trying to run the ball against 8 in the box on 1st and 2nd down, bringing up 3rd and long. Asking Tolzien to throw the ball 10+ yards over the middle is not going to lead to much success. I can recall a total of 2 plays that we tried some sort of quick pass, and one was a run/pass option where they just throw it right out to Jordy behind the line and hope he makes his defender miss.
The lack of having the best player in the NFL allowing him to call whatever he wants whenever he wants is exposing Mike McCarthy for exactly what he is, a well below average NFL coach.
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Pack is as inept today as the Warriors were yesterday.
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NFL is a whole lotta bad this year.
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Watchin' a Harbaugh goin' down is an exercise in sportsmanship, hey?
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That was as ugly a day for the NFC North in a long time.
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And then the Packers run a fake punt and fail. Trying to gain 7 yards with your backup safety catching the ball 4 yards behind the line of scrimmage and your special teams unit trying to block usually works out pretty well.
Game plan is awful for the Packers today. You have Scott Tolzien under center and you're trying to run the ball against 8 in the box on 1st and 2nd down, bringing up 3rd and long. Asking Tolzien to throw the ball 10+ yards over the middle is not going to lead to much success. I can recall a total of 2 plays that we tried some sort of quick pass, and one was a run/pass option where they just throw it right out to Jordy behind the line and hope he makes his defender miss.
The lack of having the best player in the NFL allowing him to call whatever he wants whenever he wants is exposing Mike McCarthy for exactly what he is, a well below average NFL coach.
Oh come on. Take the star QB off of any team and see how well any coach does.
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Oh come on. Take the star QB off of any team and see how well any coach does.
Like the Bears? ha... but seriously, how about the patriots the year brady went down?
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Like the Bears? ha... but seriously, how about the patriots the year brady went down?
You mean the year they didn't make the playoffs?
Part of this is the lack of an adequate back-up. I think Thompson should have known that Wallace was a bad idea.
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You mean the year they didn't make the playoffs?
Part of this is the lack of an adequate back-up. I think Thompson should have known that Wallace was a bad idea.
sure. just 11-5. my point was that i think belicheck still showed he was a superb coach even when the "star QB" goes down
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sure. just 11-5. my point was that i think belicheck still showed he was a superb coach even when the "star QB" goes down
Because he had an adequate replacement.
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The race for second AFC wild card is disgusting.
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Like the Bears? ha... but seriously, how about the patriots the year brady went down?
I've been saying it over and over, the Bears are better with McCown in than with Cutler. McCown plays to the game plan and takes what the D gives him. He doesn't turn the ball over or hang onto it until either a big play opportunity strikes or he gets sacked.
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Because he had an adequate replacement.
fair enough. seems, a bit, like you're changing your original statement though.
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fair enough. seems, a bit, like you're changing your original statement though.
Actually my initial statement was incomplete. I don't think this reflects poorly on McCarthy. I think the fault lies at the feet of Thompson.
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Collinsworth has lost his fast ball. He's been terrible this season on the call.
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I have no idea but watching highlights on the NFL Network it seems to me that Jim Schwartz has a huge ego.
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Oh come on. Take the star QB off of any team and see how well any coach does.
He has a point about the play calling. It played right into the Giants hand. Load up to stop the run, make the third string QB throw long on third down. I had no problem with the fake punt. If he gains a half yard more everyone says it is a brilliant move.
To say McCarthy is a bad coach is ridiculous. He is a top 5 coach in the league in my opinion. Keep in mind it is more than Rodgers that is missing. You could say every team has to deal with injuries, but no one has had the injuries the Packers have had this year at key positions from training camp on.
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I've been saying it over and over, the Bears are better with McCown in than with Cutler. McCown plays to the game plan and takes what the D gives him. He doesn't turn the ball over or hang onto it until either a big play opportunity strikes or he gets sacked.
As a Bears fan no hes not. Cutler is still head and shoulders above McCown. I still feel much more at ease when Cutler is starting. Even thought the Bears are winning McCown cant win you a game lie Cutty can. McCown is a very solid backup and can probably be the no brainer starter for some teams in the league but I will take Cutler every day of the week.
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I have no idea but watching highlights on the NFL Network it seems to me that Jim Schwartz has a huge ego.
Might be the only thing he has that is huge so he has to flaunt it.
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, but no one has had the injuries the Packers have had this year at key positions from training camp on.
I would say Atlanta has dealt with more, but Green Bay has done a better job of dealing with them.
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I would say Atlanta has dealt with more, but Green Bay has done a better job of dealing with them.
Maybe, The most recent thing I saw on NFL Network had GB losing more starters than anyone. Plus, Atlanta still has it's starting QB.
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As a Lion's fan, the best thing I can say about the Steeler game is that Tampa is up next and Ansah will probably be playing. No defensive line pressure, poor tackling in the secondary, more dropped passes, Stafford good for one quarter, last two drives with Bush on the bench being punished for fumbling, and oh yeah, one of the most poorly timed fake FG attempts ever. I predicted that if the secondary stayed healthy, this team would be ok. They have stayed healthy but are the Achilles heel anyway. If the D-line isn't getting to the QB, the secondary is screwed.
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As a Bears fan no hes not. Cutler is still head and shoulders above McCown. I still feel much more at ease when Cutler is starting. Even thought the Bears are winning McCown cant win you a game lie Cutty can. McCown is a very solid backup and can probably be the no brainer starter for some teams in the league but I will take Cutler every day of the week.
It baffles me that people keep thinking its still an apples to apples comparison. Its not the same offense. If Cutler was playing in a vanilla offense and being asked to make throws that McCown is, he would have less interceptions/sacks too. Trestman chose to play Cutler on a bum leg too long into the second half of the Lions game, which tells you alot about their comparable abilities as well.
McCown is the best backup the Bears have had in a LONG TIME, and, in situations like this, I am very thankful for that. But this constant desire to throw Cutler under the bus when he's in the middle of arguably his best season as a Bear, when healthy, is dumb. McCown doesn't win them the Bengals game and Vikings game in the 4th quarter like Cutler did. And going into the Skins game, he played 2 very good games against the Saints and the Giants. This whole discussion is nonsense. Take the win and hope your starters get healthy for a final push.
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It baffles me that people keep thinking its still an apples to apples comparison. Its not the same offense. If Cutler was playing in a vanilla offense and being asked to make throws that McCown is, he would have less interceptions/sacks too. Trestman chose to play Cutler on a bum leg too long into the second half of the Lions game, which tells you alot about their comparable abilities as well.
In addition, Trestman took the ball out of McCown's hands on the 2-point conversion attempt. Think he's calling a run with a healthy Cutler in the game? No chance.
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As a Bears fan no hes not. Cutler is still head and shoulders above McCown. I still feel much more at ease when Cutler is starting. Even thought the Bears are winning McCown cant win you a game lie Cutty can. McCown is a very solid backup and can probably be the no brainer starter for some teams in the league but I will take Cutler every day of the week.
As a GB fan, I also feel much better when Cutler is starting.
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It baffles me that people keep thinking its still an apples to apples comparison. Its not the same offense. If Cutler was playing in a vanilla offense and being asked to make throws that McCown is, he would have less interceptions/sacks too. Trestman chose to play Cutler on a bum leg too long into the second half of the Lions game, which tells you alot about their comparable abilities as well.
McCown is the best backup the Bears have had in a LONG TIME, and, in situations like this, I am very thankful for that. But this constant desire to throw Cutler under the bus when he's in the middle of arguably his best season as a Bear, when healthy, is dumb. McCown doesn't win them the Bengals game and Vikings game in the 4th quarter like Cutler did. And going into the Skins game, he played 2 very good games against the Saints and the Giants. This whole discussion is nonsense. Take the win and hope your starters get healthy for a final push.
Weird you say that. If the offense is so vanilla with McCown but so complex with Cutler in there, you would think they would be doing better things on offense with Cutler in the game, and you'd think that Cutler would be throwing a lot more long balls than McCown. But it's interesting, no matter how you slice it McCown's numbers are better. Yards per attempt? 7.2 for Cutler compared to 7.5 for McCown. Now let me guess, the Bears fans will say, "Well, Cutler attempts more long balls and has more incompletions weighing those numbers down! Get a clue!" Well, OK. Yards per completion? 11.4 for Cutler compared to 12.4 for McCown. So...what now? McCown must just get lucky and all of a sudden Bears receivers remember how to run after the catch, while with Cutler they just get taken down immediately. Or something like that. And Cutler's completion percentage is higher than McCown's, sitting at 63% compared to 60%, so he has that going for him. Otherwise, 13 touchdowns with 8 interceptions and 4 fumbles for Cutler compared to 5 touchdowns with no turnovers at all for McCown in under 1/2 the attempts that Cutler has. Cutler's QBR is 63.2 compared to McCown's 81.3. But yeah, it's all because of the vanilla offense the Bears run with McCown. That's what makes all of McCown's numbers better than Cutler's. And the fact that when McCown is in the game they win. 2-0 with McCown starting, 4-4 with Cutler starting. McCown was the one who actually came in and gave them a shot to win against the Redskins and Lions. Had he started both those games, chances are the Bears are 7-3 or 8-2.
And if this is Cutler's best season as Chicago's QB, then the Bears should be doing everything they can to get someone else in there. QB rating of 82.4? 7.2 yards per attempt? 13 touchdowns to 8 interceptions with 4 fumbles? That's 1 more touchdown than it is turnovers. That is horrendous.
As a GB fan, I also feel much better when Cutler is starting.
100% agreed. Especially against the Packers, whose defense relies on creating turnovers (a solid 4 this year, fantastic Capers), you can count on at least 2 from Cutler, and many times more, in any game. McCown? Well, he's proven to value the football a bit more.
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He has a point about the play calling. It played right into the Giants hand. Load up to stop the run, make the third string QB throw long on third down. I had no problem with the fake punt. If he gains a half yard more everyone says it is a brilliant move.
To say McCarthy is a bad coach is ridiculous. He is a top 5 coach in the league in my opinion. Keep in mind it is more than Rodgers that is missing. You could say every team has to deal with injuries, but no one has had the injuries the Packers have had this year at key positions from training camp on.
While the Bears O has been pretty healthy (knock on wood), the D is as tattered as any team in the league. 6 starters missing significant time.
LB: Lance Briggs
LB: DJ Williams (Season)
CB: Charles Tillman (Season)
DE: Shea McClellin (Season)
DT: Henry Melton (Season)
DT: Nate Collins (Season)
The Packers haven't lost much on D. Shields, Matthews, Perry? And none of them for the season.
On the offensive side of the ball its a little different obviously.
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While the Bears O has been pretty healthy (knock on wood), the D is as tattered as any team in the league. 6 starters missing significant time.
LB: Lance Briggs
LB: DJ Williams (Season)
CB: Charles Tillman (Season)
DE: Shea McClellin (Season)
DT: Henry Melton (Season)
DT: Nate Collins (Season)
The Packers haven't lost much on D. Shields, Matthews, Perry? And none of them for the season.
On the offensive side of the ball its a little different obviously.
Burnett missed the first 4 weeks, Hayward played in basically 1 game and is done now. I believe Brad Jones missed a few games.
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While the Bears O has been pretty healthy (knock on wood), the D is as tattered as any team in the league. 6 starters missing significant time.
LB: Lance Briggs
LB: DJ Williams (Season)
CB: Charles Tillman (Season)
DE: Shea McClellin (Season)
DT: Henry Melton (Season)
DT: Nate Collins (Season)
The Packers haven't lost much on D. Shields, Matthews, Perry? And none of them for the season.
On the offensive side of the ball its a little different obviously.
Good point. With the injuries, the Bear defense is as bad as it gets (let a team that may be the worst rushing team in the league rack up big yards) just as the GB offense is about as bad as it gets with all of their injuries.
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While the Bears O has been pretty healthy (knock on wood), the D is as tattered as any team in the league. 6 starters missing significant time.
LB: Lance Briggs
LB: DJ Williams (Season)
CB: Charles Tillman (Season)
DE: Shea McClellin (Season)
DT: Henry Melton (Season)
DT: Nate Collins (Season)
The Packers haven't lost much on D. Shields, Matthews, Perry? And none of them for the season.
On the offensive side of the ball its a little different obviously.
true, Hayward hasn't played much, they looking for him to be a big part, also brad jones out for a while,but yes you are right the injuries on defense have been numerous but not as long term.
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While the Bears O has been pretty healthy (knock on wood), the D is as tattered as any team in the league. 6 starters missing significant time.
LB: Lance Briggs
LB: DJ Williams (Season)
CB: Charles Tillman (Season)
DE: Shea McClellin (Season)
DT: Henry Melton (Season)
DT: Nate Collins (Season)
The Packers haven't lost much on D. Shields, Matthews, Perry? And none of them for the season.
On the offensive side of the ball its a little different obviously.
McClellin? I thought I saw that he would be back practicing this week...
Rich Campbell @Rich_Campbell 3h
Bears injury updates, including Cutler, Briggs, McClellin & more: http://trib.in/17EYUv2
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Weird you say that. If the offense is so vanilla with McCown but so complex with Cutler in there, you would think they would be doing better things on offense with Cutler in the game, and you'd think that Cutler would be throwing a lot more long balls than McCown. But it's interesting, no matter how you slice it McCown's numbers are better. Yards per attempt? 7.2 for Cutler compared to 7.5 for McCown. Now let me guess, the Bears fans will say, "Well, Cutler attempts more long balls and has more incompletions weighing those numbers down! Get a clue!" Well, OK. Yards per completion? 11.4 for Cutler compared to 12.4 for McCown. So...what now? McCown must just get lucky and all of a sudden Bears receivers remember how to run after the catch, while with Cutler they just get taken down immediately. Or something like that. And Cutler's completion percentage is higher than McCown's, sitting at 63% compared to 60%, so he has that going for him. Otherwise, 13 touchdowns with 8 interceptions and 4 fumbles for Cutler compared to 5 touchdowns with no turnovers at all for McCown in under 1/2 the attempts that Cutler has. Cutler's QBR is 63.2 compared to McCown's 81.3. But yeah, it's all because of the vanilla offense the Bears run with McCown. That's what makes all of McCown's numbers better than Cutler's. And the fact that when McCown is in the game they win. 2-0 with McCown starting, 4-4 with Cutler starting. McCown was the one who actually came in and gave them a shot to win against the Redskins and Lions. Had he started both those games, chances are the Bears are 7-3 or 8-2.And if this is Cutler's best season as Chicago's QB, then the Bears should be doing everything they can to get someone else in there. QB rating of 82.4? 7.2 yards per attempt? 13 touchdowns to 8 interceptions with 4 fumbles? That's 1 more touchdown than it is turnovers. That is horrendous.
100% agreed. Especially against the Packers, whose defense relies on creating turnovers (a solid 4 this year, fantastic Capers), you can count on at least 2 from Cutler, and many times more, in any game. McCown? Well, he's proven to value the football a bit more.
I'm sorry but you're clueless. Where to begin? Oh..nevermind. I'll just say this: the Bears wouldn't have beat Minnesota or Cincy with McCown starting. Also, if Cutler stayed healthy (or even close to healthy), they would have beaten Detroit.
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I'm sorry but you're clueless. Where to begin? Oh..nevermind. I'll just say this: the Bears wouldn't have beat Minnesota or Cincy with McCown starting. Also, if Cutler stayed healthy (or even close to healthy), they would have beaten Detroit.
Hahaha. You're right, where to begin? You can't even figure that one out. Oh almighty never ending source of football knowledge that is MerrittsMustache, please do enlighten me on how a quarterback with the exact same cast around him (they do play for the same team, after all) can have a higher quarterback rating, total QBR, more yards per attempt, more yards per completion, a much higher touchdown to interception ratio, and a better winning percentage and yet the team is better off with the other quarterback in the game? I'm the clueless one here, all the numbers add up to McCown, even with him playing a large percentage of his snaps to a game plan that was created for Jay Cutler to be under center and he is outperforming Cutler even in those games, but I know nothing. You want the worse numbers and worse record, then? Didn't know that's how football went, thank goodness Rodgers is hurt so we can start Tolzein!
Does Cutler have the better physical tools? Absolutely. No doubt about it. But McCown is much, much, much better with his mechanics and with with his head. No window to throw? Get it to your check down. McCown does that, Cutler doesn't, which leads to negative yards or a turnover. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that when Jay Cutler is under center the Packers are going to win the football game because we are going to have at least 2 takeaways, and if you give Aaron Rodgers the ball 2 extra times, and especially if they come with good field position, you have no chance. I can't say all fans think that way, but as a Packer fan there is no doubt in my mind that the Packers will win going into a Bears game with Jay Cutler as the quarterback. I am much more scared of quarterbacks like McCown or Andy Dalton or any quarterback who values the football, will make the smart football play, play to a game plan, and manage the game.
And you're kidding me, right? You don't think the Bears would have beaten the Vikings if McCown had played in that game? Man, oh man. It is beyond comical that you say I am clueless. The Bears were at home, against the VIKINGS, who are absolutely atrocious. Jay Cutler turned the ball over THREE times in that game, including a fumble that was returned for a touchdown. McCown has yet to turn the ball over once this season. Would McCown have led the Bears to the game winning drive if they were down late in the game? Chances are no. But I can guarantee you that McCown would not have had the Bears needing a game winning drive to win that game. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about if you think the Vikings would have won had Jay Cutler not started for the Bears. The fact of the matter is the only way the Vikings had a chance to beat the Bears was if Jay Cutler was starting. Jay had a nice drive at the end of the game. Well done. Should've never needed it, though.
Listen, if you think having a quarterback who through half of a year has accounted for 1 more touchdown than he has turnovers is a recipe for success in the NFL, then more power to you. You're wrong, but you can keep thinking that.
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000062062/article/charles-woodson-on-cutler-same-old-jay
Charles Woodson absolutely hit the nail on the head. "Same old Jay...Jay will throw us the ball." Absolutely. And the writer of this article hit the nail on the head, too. "We still never know which Jay Cutler is going to show up on a given week."
I would much rather have a consistent quarterback with a low ceiling than one who will have a great game every now and then and a horrible game every now and then. Much easier to game plan for the consistent quarterback who you know what you're going to get from. There's a reason quarterbacks who successfully manage the game even if they don't have the incredible physical tools or huge numbers (such as Russell Wilson) lead teams to the Playoffs while players with the great physical tools but terrible mechanics and decision making skills have losing records year in and year out (such as Michael Vick).
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Wow, can't believe that flag got picked up.
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Hahaha. You're right, where to begin? You can't even figure that one out. Oh almighty never ending source of football knowledge that is MerrittsMustache, please do enlighten me on how a quarterback with the exact same cast around him (they do play for the same team, after all) can have a higher quarterback rating, total QBR, more yards per attempt, more yards per completion, a much higher touchdown to interception ratio, and a better winning percentage and yet the team is better off with the other quarterback in the game? I'm the clueless one here, all the numbers add up to McCown, even with him playing a large percentage of his snaps to a game plan that was created for Jay Cutler to be under center and he is outperforming Cutler even in those games, but I know nothing. You want the worse numbers and worse record, then? Didn't know that's how football went, thank goodness Rodgers is hurt so we can start Tolzein!
Does Cutler have the better physical tools? Absolutely. No doubt about it. But McCown is much, much, much better with his mechanics and with with his head. No window to throw? Get it to your check down. McCown does that, Cutler doesn't, which leads to negative yards or a turnover. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that when Jay Cutler is under center the Packers are going to win the football game because we are going to have at least 2 takeaways, and if you give Aaron Rodgers the ball 2 extra times, and especially if they come with good field position, you have no chance. I can't say all fans think that way, but as a Packer fan there is no doubt in my mind that the Packers will win going into a Bears game with Jay Cutler as the quarterback. I am much more scared of quarterbacks like McCown or Andy Dalton or any quarterback who values the football, will make the smart football play, play to a game plan, and manage the game.
And you're kidding me, right? You don't think the Bears would have beaten the Vikings if McCown had played in that game? Man, oh man. It is beyond comical that you say I am clueless. The Bears were at home, against the VIKINGS, who are absolutely atrocious. Jay Cutler turned the ball over THREE times in that game, including a fumble that was returned for a touchdown. McCown has yet to turn the ball over once this season. Would McCown have led the Bears to the game winning drive if they were down late in the game? Chances are no. But I can guarantee you that McCown would not have had the Bears needing a game winning drive to win that game. You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about if you think the Vikings would have won had Jay Cutler not started for the Bears. The fact of the matter is the only way the Vikings had a chance to beat the Bears was if Jay Cutler was starting. Jay had a nice drive at the end of the game. Well done. Should've never needed it, though.
Listen, if you think having a quarterback who through half of a year has accounted for 1 more touchdown than he has turnovers is a recipe for success in the NFL, then more power to you. You're wrong, but you can keep thinking that.
I guess you're smarter than an NFL head coach with 30+ years of coaching experience, primarily with quarterbacks AND every GM in the NFL.
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Wow, can't believe that flag got picked up.
What's worse that the flag was picked up or the ESPN "rules" expert staunchly defended it?
I normally hate Peter King's blatherings but I have to agree with every single thing he wrote here
http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/19/carolina-panthers-new-england-patriots-bad-call/?eref=sihp
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What's worse that the flag was picked up or the ESPN "rules" expert staunchly defended it?
I normally hate Peter King's blatherings but I have to agree with every single thing he wrote here
http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/19/carolina-panthers-new-england-patriots-bad-call/?eref=sihp
I agree that the official needed to give more of an explanation, especially to the head coaches. The fact of the matter is that the pass was uncatchable. If Brady had sailed it over Gronk's head, there would be no controversy. You just don't see "uncatchable" called on underthrows very often.
Sidenote: I've long been of the belief that pass interference should not be called on underthrown deep balls that result in the receiver stopping and the DB running into him. That call basically rewards the QB for making a bad throw. The NFL loves offense so it's obviously not going to change that but it's really something the rules committee should look at.
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Weird you say that. If the offense is so vanilla with McCown but so complex with Cutler in there, you would think they would be doing better things on offense with Cutler in the game, and you'd think that Cutler would be throwing a lot more long balls than McCown. But it's interesting, no matter how you slice it McCown's numbers are better. Yards per attempt? 7.2 for Cutler compared to 7.5 for McCown. Now let me guess, the Bears fans will say, "Well, Cutler attempts more long balls and has more incompletions weighing those numbers down! Get a clue!" Well, OK. Yards per completion? 11.4 for Cutler compared to 12.4 for McCown. So...what now? McCown must just get lucky and all of a sudden Bears receivers remember how to run after the catch, while with Cutler they just get taken down immediately. Or something like that. And Cutler's completion percentage is higher than McCown's, sitting at 63% compared to 60%, so he has that going for him. Otherwise, 13 touchdowns with 8 interceptions and 4 fumbles for Cutler compared to 5 touchdowns with no turnovers at all for McCown in under 1/2 the attempts that Cutler has. Cutler's QBR is 63.2 compared to McCown's 81.3. But yeah, it's all because of the vanilla offense the Bears run with McCown. That's what makes all of McCown's numbers better than Cutler's. And the fact that when McCown is in the game they win. 2-0 with McCown starting, 4-4 with Cutler starting. McCown was the one who actually came in and gave them a shot to win against the Redskins and Lions. Had he started both those games, chances are the Bears are 7-3 or 8-2.
And if this is Cutler's best season as Chicago's QB, then the Bears should be doing everything they can to get someone else in there. QB rating of 82.4? 7.2 yards per attempt? 13 touchdowns to 8 interceptions with 4 fumbles? That's 1 more touchdown than it is turnovers. That is horrendous.
You make good points. I'll say a few things and then just let this be.
1) When I referred to this being Cutler's best season, I mentally was stripping out the Lions game. You take away that first half, in which he rarely, if ever, was able to complete dropbacks or progressions due to the fact that Fairley and Suh were in his grill almost immediately, and all of a sudden his season looks alot better. Very good games against Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and NYG, good games against NO and Minnesota, and then the incomplete Redskins game and a game against the Lions where he clearly wasn't all there. I realize you will immediately balk at that Lions omission, but if you don't recognize that he was in a situation as bad as any in his time with the Bears in the first half, well, then you're being obtuse. Its hard to blame a QB for a fumble when he is blasted from the blind side repeatedly even as he's tucking the ball.
2) Again, taking nothing away from McCown, but he's put up his numbers against a 3-7 Redskins team, a 4-6 Ravens team, and a Packers team who was broken and in shambles. But hey, Cutler didn't even finish the half against the Redskins and you still credited him with the loss though I guarantee if they had pulled it out, you would have slide that into a 3-0 figure for McCown.
3) For as "horrendous" as you say Cutler has been, you take away that Lions game and his QBR would be around 70-71, which would put him top 5 in the league this year. Even with the mediocre injured performance 2 weeks ago.
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NFL is a whole lotta bad this year.
Very mediocre this year. Top heavy. I think the playoffs are going to be sensational however.
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......blah blah. I am much more scared of quarterbacks like McCown or Andy Dalton or any quarterback who values the football, will make the smart football play, play to a game plan, and manage the game....
etc etc
Andy Dalton
Yds 2954
avg 7.21
TD 21
INT 15
Fum 4
QBR 50.1
Rat 85.2
Jay Cutler
Yds 1905
avg 7.20
TD 13
INT 8
Fum 4
QBR 63.2
Rat 88.4
Lol, the Red Rocket...
Dare I say it, Andy Dalton values the football less than Jay Cutler. With more turnovers, lower QBR, lower Rating, and a whopping .01 yards higher average.
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Let's just say that if Emery & Trestman valued Cutler as much as a couple of the posters here do - he would already be signed to a long-term deal
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Let's just say that if Emery & Trestman valued Cutler as much as a couple of the posters here do - he would already be signed to a long-term deal
Because it's just that easy.
And look don't get me wrong, I know Jay has his short comings. I just think the argument that the Bears are better off long-term with McCown has some holes.
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Very mediocre this year. Top heavy. I think the playoffs are going to be sensational however.
Indy/Cincy game coming up is going to be huge. In the AFC, you do not want to be the 4 seed.
Before injuries started mounting up, I thought I had a good read on things. You could possibly have a first weekend Saints @ Eagles game in Philly, which could be wild.
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I agree that the official needed to give more of an explanation, especially to the head coaches. The fact of the matter is that the pass was uncatchable. If Brady had sailed it over Gronk's head, there would be no controversy. You just don't see "uncatchable" called on underthrows very often.
Sidenote: I've long been of the belief that pass interference should not be called on underthrown deep balls that result in the receiver stopping and the DB running into him. That call basically rewards the QB for making a bad throw. The NFL loves offense so it's obviously not going to change that but it's really something the rules committee should look at.
You're rule change would have a significant impact on the back shoulder throws that are so prevalent in the NFL today.
The issue I have with your interpretation of uncatchable is, if Gronk is not getting pushed to the back of the end zone is it uncatchable? Do I think he makes the catch? No, but I definitely think he can compete for it. Even if it's not PI it sure as heck is illegal contact. Either way a foul was committed that has to be called.
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Let's just say that if Emery & Trestman valued Cutler as much as a couple of the posters here do - he would already be signed to a long-term deal
Let's just say that if Emery & Trestman valued McCown as much as a couple of the posters here do - he would have been named the starter even when Cutler comes back.
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Because it's just that easy.
And look don't get me wrong, I know Jay has his short comings. I just think the argument that the Bears are better off long-term with McCown has some holes.
I agree. I just don't think a smart move is to pay $100 mil + to a middle of the road QB
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Indy/Cincy game coming up is going to be huge. In the AFC, you do not want to be the 4 seed.
Before injuries started mounting up, I thought I had a good read on things. You could possibly have a first weekend Saints @ Eagles game in Philly, which could be wild.
How about San Francisco at Detroit?
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How about San Francisco at Detroit?
You're right. That would be a heck of a pair of NFC Wild Card games.
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I think people here are still bitter that the Bears backup beat the Packers and are looking for any excuse to make the loss seem more manageable. Cutler is better, end of story. If you told me right now if you had to choose Cutler or McCown to start a franchise you would pick Cutler every time.
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I think people here are still bitter that the Bears backup beat the Packers and are looking for any excuse to make the loss seem more manageable. Cutler is better, end of story. If you told me right now if you had to choose Cutler or McCown to start a franchise you would pick Cutler every time.
Haha, WHAT?! That's cute.
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I think people here are still bitter that the Bears backup beat the Packers and are looking for any excuse to make the loss seem more manageable. Cutler is better, end of story. If you told me right now if you had to choose Cutler or McCown to start a franchise you would pick Cutler every time.
Cutler vs McCown to start a franchise isn't exactly promising. JJ Watt is a better option, just sayin.
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I think people here are still bitter that the Bears backup beat the Packers and are looking for any excuse to make the loss seem more manageable. Cutler is better, end of story. If you told me right now if you had to choose Cutler or McCown to start a franchise you would pick Cutler every time.
This.
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I think people here are still bitter that the Bears backup beat the Packers and are looking for any excuse to make the loss seem more manageable. Cutler is better, end of story. If you told me right now if you had to choose Cutler or McCown to start a franchise you would pick Cutler every time.
nah that loss is far in the rear view ... but you made me think of your post when I saw that Frazier is starting Ponder against GB this week "because of his previous success against GB". If you had to start a franchise with Ponder, Cassell or Freeman....
Ponder is 1-4 LOL but I will say he's got a good shot this week with GB in the shape their in and their defense playing poorly lately
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If you are a Detroit d-lineman, and you make contact with the quarterback's legs from behind, WHILE HE STILL HAS THE BALL, it is roughing the passer.
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Stick a fork in the Pack.
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Stick a fork in the Pack.
Complete defensive meltdown. Just like last year.
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Stick a fork in the Pack.
It's the Vikings at GB. I wouldn't stick a fork in them yet
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Hold said fork
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Wahoo! They did it! The Lions found ANOTHER ridiculously unfathomable way to lose a game. Wait til you guys see a replay of the last two turnovers. Way to go!
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I stand by what I said.
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The NFC North completely sucks.
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The NFC North completely sucks.
Injuries (Bears and Packers) and bad coaching/major headcases (Detroit) can really destroy a team.
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Injuries (Bears and Packers) and bad coaching/major headcases (Detroit) can really destroy a team.
McCarthy's decisions in OT were terrible. Trestman's second half red zone play calling was awful.
No one deserves to go to the playoffs, let alone host a game.
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Packers control their destiny.
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Skol Vikings! Wish both teams could be given an L for that one.
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Packers control their destiny.
They also haven't won a game in a month.
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They also haven't won a game in a month.
Hey, you gotta give me some reason to watch the television on Thursday. I can just can't get drunk and talk to the in-laws.
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Probably better to be drunk when shootin' the manure with the in laws, a'ina?
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I stand by what I said.
They are still alive. Wait until Rogers comes back and lights up the Cowboys defense for 500 yards
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Hey, you gotta give me some reason to watch the television on Thursday. I can just can't get drunk and talk to the in-laws.
Gotta stay sober. You have a basketball game to watch. As for the football, I predict a Packer victory, as the Lions snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in yet another heretofore inconceivable manner.
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Hey, you gotta give me some reason to watch the television on Thursday. I can just can't get drunk and talk to the in-laws.
As someone holding a Pack to win NFC North ticket, I'm still vested.
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Gotta stay sober. You have a basketball game to watch. As for the football, I predict a Packer victory, as the Lions snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in yet another heretofore inconceivable manner.
Unfortunately, I believe I will be on the road during the MU game.
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Vizzini: Inconceivable
Inigo: You keep using that word. I do think it means what you think it means.
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Packers control their destiny.
So does every team in the NFC North not named the Vikings.
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After watching Broncos/Pats, the cold weather Super Bowl should go swell.
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The NFC North completely sucks.
Nobody in the division won today. Not easy to do, especially with one in division game.
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After watching Broncos/Pats, the cold weather Super Bowl should go swell.
well...
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After watching Broncos/Pats, the cold weather Super Bowl should go swell.
4 quarters, not 2
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4 quarters, not 2
Huh? Quality of football has been awful.
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Huh? Quality of football has been awful.
But entertaining. I was at last year's Super Bowl and the first 2.5 quarters were God awful boring...I had to put the lights out in the building. The NFL wants an exciting, entertaining game. They would kill for this game right now in the Super Bowl in NYC.
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But entertaining. I was at last year's Super Bowl and the first 2.5 quarters were God awful boring...I had to put the lights out in the building. The NFL wants an exciting, entertaining game. They would kill for this game right now in the Super Bowl in NYC.
9 fumbles, a pick, punting a nightmare, kicking a crapshoot. Yeah, anytime you can have the best game played in crap conditions and have a championship determined by the weather, you gotta do it.
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9 fumbles, a pick, punting a nightmare, kicking a crapshoot. Yeah, anytime you can have the best game played in crap conditions and have a championship determined by the weather, you gotta do it.
I get what you are saying, but it is compelling. People are going to watch just to see what the weather will do. Personally, I wish the game was not played in the weather conditions like that as I would rather a "third" factor doesn't play into the game. That being said, both teams will have to deal with it. Should be fun.
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All football belongs indoors. NFL should mandate all new stadiums to have retractables. All current stadiums get 20 years to build a roof.
Only meatheads clamor for the game outside.
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All football belongs indoors. NFL should mandate all new stadiums to have retractables. All current stadiums get 20 years to build a roof.
Only meatheads clamor for the game outside.
"Bear weather".
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All football belongs indoors. NFL should mandate all new stadiums to have retractables. All current stadiums get 20 years to build a roof.
Only meatheads clamor for the game outside.
Those of us here on the west coast will politely disagree. It was 68 degrees here today, not a cloud in the sky.
I think the Super Bowl should be, but not the regular season and playoffs.
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I think people are still drying off from the Bears, Colts superbowl in 2006.
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So does every team in the NFC North not named the Vikings.
Right...but the Packers couldn't say that prior to yesterday.
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McCarthy's decisions in OT were terrible. Trestman's second half red zone play calling was awful.
No one deserves to go to the playoffs, let alone host a game.
Ugh...the Bears D couldn't stop a high school offense right now. And while the Bears offense is doing well you gotta keep Michael Bush on the bench...especially in short yardage situations, he's just terrible. Yesterday was rough to watch.
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Matt Flynn, returning to the party store that sold him his winning lottery ticket.
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Matt Flynn, returning to the party store that sold him his winning lottery ticket.
Should've been taking every snap since Rodgers got hurt.
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All football belongs indoors. NFL should mandate all new stadiums to have retractables. All current stadiums get 20 years to build a roof.
Only meatheads clamor for the game outside.
maybe they should mandate that all the players wear skirts and pantyhose as well.
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maybe they should mandate that all the players wear skirts and pantyhose as well.
Typical.
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Those of us here on the west coast will politely disagree. It was 68 degrees here today, not a cloud in the sky.
I think the Super Bowl should be, but not the regular season and playoffs.
It's a work in process, but still shouldn't have to play in the rain either.
"Bear weather".
Take it easy over there Gas Money Bob. Cannot believe no one has gotten up in arms about the Frozen Tundra yet.
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Should've been taking every snap since Rodgers got hurt.
He wasn't on the Packers' roster when Rodgers got hurt.
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Ugh...the Bears D couldn't stop a high school offense right now. And while the Bears offense is doing well you gotta keep Michael Bush on the bench...especially in short yardage situations, he's just terrible. Yesterday was rough to watch.
As my dad put it yesterday...Michael Bush has definitely lost a step and he only had one to begin with.
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Typical.
typical of what?
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typical of what?
i think he was implying that was a typical meathead reaction
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Typical.
I think you are over using the meatball term there buddy. Maybe dial back on the Chicago sports radio. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a "meatball fan"
Playing in the elements is part of the fabric of the NFL and always has been. Both teams play in it. Personally, I don't like the sanitized brand of football played indoors on artificial turf. That doesn't make me a meatball fan. And no it has nothing to do with the packers playing at Lambeau. The Packers up until this year were more equipped to play indoors on artificial turf.
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As someone holding a Pack to win NFC North ticket, I'm still vested.
I hold a Packers to win the Superbowl ticket. It was purchased approximately 47 minutes before A Rog broke his collarbone.
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I think you are over using the meatball term there buddy. Maybe dial back on the Chicago sports radio. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a "meatball fan"
Playing in the elements is part of the fabric of the NFL and always has been. Both teams play in it. Personally, I don't like the sanitized brand of football played indoors on artificial turf. That doesn't make me a meatball fan. And no it has nothing to do with the packers playing at Lambeau. The Packers up until this year were more equipped to play indoors on artificial turf.
I agree with this. Football has historically been played outdoors in all sorts of weather. It is part of the game.
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I hold a Packers to win the Superbowl ticket. It was purchased approximately 47 minutes before A Rog broke his collarbone.
I know this pain. I just lost my over on season wins for the Packers yesterday with a TIE.
IT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN MORE DEPRESSING. If they get to 10 wins I will be inconsolable.
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Take it easy over there Gas Money Bob. Cannot believe no one has gotten up in arms about the Frozen Tundra yet.
Was at the Packers game yesterday and the Tundra actually was frozen with a game time air temperature at 22 degrees and wind chill bringing it down to the teens and below by the time the game got done.
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Is there any chance Rodgers plays Thursday?
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Is there any chance Rodgers plays Thursday?
With yesterday's results I doubt it.....it technically bought them the ability to justify a Flynn start Thursday and bring Rodgers back "fully healthy" against Atlanta on December 8th. I bet he could but they are going to be cautious.
Besides he doesn't matter as much now that the defense has turned into a dumpster fire. I'm way more concerned if Sam Shields can play Thursday.
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I think you are over using the meatball term there buddy. Maybe dial back on the Chicago sports radio. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make them a "meatball fan"
Playing in the elements is part of the fabric of the NFL and always has been. Both teams play in it. Personally, I don't like the sanitized brand of football played indoors on artificial turf. That doesn't make me a meatball fan. And no it has nothing to do with the packers playing at Lambeau. The Packers up until this year were more equipped to play indoors on artificial turf.
Probably a good thing I using meathead instead of meatball. ;D
Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't mean it should be done that way. Indoor football isn't sanitized, it's maximizing the talent of your athletes and minimizing injury potential.
No team should have to create a roster or adjust their gameplan to account for the crappy Green Bay weather, or any inclement weather. There is no good reason why football should be played outside other than "FOOTBALL BELONGS OUTSIDE....DITKA...NITSCHKE...DERP" argument.
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Was at the Packers game yesterday and the Tundra actually was frozen with a game time air temperature at 22 degrees and wind chill bringing it down to the teens and below by the time the game got done.
The field is never frozen and hasn't been for 40+ years.
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Probably a good thing I using meathead instead of meatball. ;D
Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't mean it should be done that way. Indoor football isn't sanitized, it's maximizing the talent of your athletes and minimizing injury potential.
No team should have to create a roster or adjust their gameplan to account for the crappy Green Bay weather, or any inclement weather. There is no good reason why football should be played outside other than "FOOTBALL BELONGS OUTSIDE....DITKA...NITSCHKE...DERP" argument.
ok, I just disagree with you then.
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Is there any chance Rodgers plays Thursday?
The only thing Rodgers has said definitively is that he needs to practice two days before the game to be able to play, that means he will need to practice tomorrow.
I would be surprised if he played, waiting until Atlanta at home makes more sense.
The packers will be challenged to win out when he comes back the way the defense is playing right now.
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ok, I just disagree with you then.
Fair enough, I respect that.
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Flynn will play Thursday, and I'm guessing he'll be pretty effective. He missed a few throws yesterday, and a little rust flew off on every one, but he clearly had confidence and pretty good control of the offense. Short turnaround doesn't help though. Seems like there is decent chance Rodgers could thencome back for Atlanta with a long time to prepare
The NFC North has turned into a complete joke. It is ridiculous, that the Packers who haven't won in a month, will be completely in the driver's seat if they somehow win on Thursday. None of it really matters though, as I don't see a single team capable of winning in the playoffs.
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Flynn will play Thursday, and I'm guessing he'll be pretty effective. He missed a few throws yesterday, and a little rust flew off on every one, but he clearly had confidence and pretty good control of the offense. Short turnaround doesn't help though. Seems like there is decent chance Rodgers could thencome back for Atlanta with a long time to prepare
The NFC North has turned into a complete joke. It is ridiculous, that the Packers who haven't won in a month, will be completely in the driver's seat if they somehow win on Thursday. None of it really matters though, as I don't see a single team capable of winning in the playoffs.
Any of the NFC North teams could beat Arizona, Dallas, Carolina or Philly. It'll all come down to who (if anyone) gets hot in the last 2-3 games of the season.
Having said that, I'd be very surprised if anyone other than Seattle or NO win the NFC.
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Rodgers injury sucks. Pack/Lions on Thanksgiving should be Rodgers/Stafford, North title hanging in the balance. Division is still up for grabs, GB can still win Thursday, but not the same without Rodgers in there. That's the best game on Thanksgiving as well.
While I'm at it, shame on NBC/NFL for not flexing out of Giants/Skins.
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Rodgers injury sucks. Pack/Lions on Thanksgiving should be Rodgers/Stafford, North title hanging in the balance. Division is still up for grabs, GB can still win Thursday, but not the same without Rodgers in there. That's the best game on Thanksgiving as well.
While I'm at it, shame on NBC/NFL for not flexing out of Giants/Skins.
The biggest salvaging this game's watchability is that it's on Thanksgiving, so they'll be great food, family, and fun. Given the short week and the Sunday performances by both teams I expect the actual game itself with be a mess to watch.
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Any of the NFC North teams could beat Arizona, Dallas, Carolina or Philly. It'll all come down to who (if anyone) gets hot in the last 2-3 games of the season.
Having said that, I'd be very surprised if anyone other than Seattle or NO win the NFC.
Panthers, baby!
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Rodgers injury sucks. Pack/Lions on Thanksgiving should be Rodgers/Stafford, North title hanging in the balance. Division is still up for grabs, GB can still win Thursday, but not the same without Rodgers in there. That's the best game on Thanksgiving as well.
While I'm at it, shame on NBC/NFL for not flexing out of Giants/Skins.
If it wasn't for the injury, the game would mean nothing - GB would have the division basically sewed up already.
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He wasn't on the Packers' roster when Rodgers got hurt.
Worded wrong. He should've been on the plane the second Rodgers got hit and taking every practice snap from that moment on through games.
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I hold a Packers to win the Superbowl ticket. It was purchased approximately 47 minutes before A Rog broke his collarbone.
I'm thinking about buying one now. 5-5-1. And only 0.5 games back in the division. Get Rodgers healthy after this week, get Cobb healthy later, get into the Playoffs as the division winner, and get hot. Not saying the Packers are the Super Bowl favorites, but the longer the Bears and Lions continue to allow them to stick around the smarter the money becomes.
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I'm thinking about buying one now. 5-5-1. And only 0.5 games back in the division. Get Rodgers healthy after this week, get Cobb healthy later, get into the Playoffs as the division winner, and get hot. Not saying the Packers are the Super Bowl favorites, but the longer the Bears and Lions continue to allow them to stick around the smarter the money becomes.
What are the current odds? I bought mine at 12-1 IIRC.
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Rodgers injury sucks. Pack/Lions on Thanksgiving should be Rodgers/Stafford, North title hanging in the balance. Division is still up for grabs, GB can still win Thursday, but not the same without Rodgers in there. That's the best game on Thanksgiving as well.
While I'm at it, shame on NBC/NFL for not flexing out of Giants/Skins.
From a ratings POV, there aren't many better. They can't take Broncos and Chiefs part 2....so St Louis and San Francisco??? Bengals and Chargers???
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What are the current odds? I bought mine at 12-1 IIRC.
25:1. I won my fantasy baseball league and the guy just talked to me about getting me my winnings. I just told him to put it all on the Pack for me. I'm feeling richer already.
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I'm thinking about buying one now. 5-5-1. And only 0.5 games back in the division. Get Rodgers healthy after this week, get Cobb healthy later, get into the Playoffs as the division winner, and get hot. Not saying the Packers are the Super Bowl favorites, but the longer the Bears and Lions continue to allow them to stick around the smarter the money becomes.
Dom Capers might screw up your investment plans.
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Probably a good thing I using meathead instead of meatball. ;D
Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't mean it should be done that way. Indoor football isn't sanitized, it's maximizing the talent of your athletes and minimizing injury potential.
No team should have to create a roster or adjust their gameplan to account for the crappy Green Bay weather, or any inclement weather. There is no good reason why football should be played outside other than "FOOTBALL BELONGS OUTSIDE....DITKA...NITSCHKE...DERP" argument.
Here is my argument.
At every level of football...from youth, to high school, to college...it is almost always played outdoors and in the elements. Unlike basketball, volleyball, etc. it is an integral part of the game.
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Dom Capers might screw up your investment plans.
Agreed. If the Packers can win the division and go into the playoffs with a healthy Rodgers, Cobb, Jones, Nelson, and Lacy the only thing that stops the Packers in the Playoffs is the Packers defense. Which it very well may. Still, at 25:1 odds that might be the best money in the NFL given where they are in the standings combined with what they will be adding once healthy.
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Agreed. If the Packers can win the division and go into the playoffs with a healthy Rodgers, Cobb, Jones, Nelson, and Lacy the only thing that stops the Packers in the Playoffs is the Packers defense. Which it very well may. Still, at 25:1 odds that might be the best money in the NFL given where they are in the standings combined with what they will be adding once healthy.
They're also going to have to win a few road games as well.
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From a ratings POV, there aren't many better. They can't take Broncos and Chiefs part 2....so St Louis and San Francisco??? Bengals and Chargers???
Cards/Eagles would have been my flex.
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Regardless of how the Packers finish, there needs to be changes in the coaching front. Dom needs to go. Its not working. Personally, I think McCarthy is and has always been a terribly overrated coach. What is his win percentage without Rodgers/Favre? He has been standing on their shoulders for years. There are bonehead calls every week... Look no further than the TYFNC (Thank You For Not Coaching) section of Bill Barnwell's column on Grantland every single week. McCarthy is always there. This week:
The Curious: Mike McCarthy curiously decided to kick a field goal on the opening possession of overtime during Sunday's Packers-Vikings tie. McCarthy's team was facing a fourth-and-goal from the 2-yard line with an opportunity to seal the game by scoring a touchdown on the first drive of overtime. Instead, he kicked a 20-yard field goal, and after the Vikings responded with a field goal of their own, the two sides sleepwalked through the remainder of overtime for an unsatisfying tie.
Should McCarthy have gone for it? I was going to prepare an explanation, but right before I put that together, ESPN Stats & Information sent over a nice explanation of the decision using its win probability model. It estimates that the Packers would have had a 45 percent chance of succeeding on fourth-and-goal from the 2-yard line, based on the historical success rate from there since 2001. If that number was an accurate representation of Green Bay's chances, its shot of winning by attempting a conversion was at a robust 82 percent.
Part of that is because the game is far from over if the Packers fail; the Vikings would still have been pinned on their 2-yard line with Christian Ponder at quarterback, which isn't exactly an envious position. If they had failed on the conversion, ESPN Stats & Info estimates that the Packers would still have had a 67 percent chance of winning the game. By kicking the field goal and subsequently kicking off to Cordarrelle Patterson (who returned it to the 20-yard line), Green Bay's chances of winning were 71 percent; the field goal made only a modest bump in their chances of winning.
Coaches are still adjusting to the new overtime rules, and it's easy to apply hindsight to a tough decision like McCarthy's. But given the expected conversion rates, it's pretty clear he should have tried to win the game while he had the chance from the 2-yard line.
This is obviously not his first mention. I don't understand why people stand behind the guy. Sure he won a Super Bowl, but I'm also under the belief that he is as responsible for that win as for the numerous eggs he has laid over his tenure... and there have been more eggs than Lombardi trophies. Start the flaming now.
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Pack are +225 to win North, 18-1 to win NFC, and 33-1 to win Super Bowl.
Cards at 25-1 to win NFC is intriguing.
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No flaming, I'm not a Packers fan, but I can't get on him for that call. Would you have gone for a TD there in OT? I think he played the percentages. If you don't get the TD, Minnesota wins with a FG. If it was 4th and goal from the 1, probably go for it. I would imagine if he went for it, didn't make it and lost that he would be in Grantland's column as well....right?
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Regardless of how the Packers finish, there needs to be changes in the coaching front. Dom needs to go. Its not working. Personally, I think McCarthy is and has always been a terribly overrated coach. What is his win percentage without Rodgers/Favre? He has been standing on their shoulders for years. There are bonehead calls every week... Look no further than the TYFNC (Thank You For Not Coaching) section of Bill Barnwell's column on Grantland every single week. McCarthy is always there. This week:
This is obviously not his first mention. I don't understand why people stand behind the guy. Sure he won a Super Bowl, but I'm also under the belief that he is as responsible for that win as for the numerous eggs he has laid over his tenure... and there have been more eggs than Lombardi trophies. Start the flaming now.
Here's the thing. Most Detroit fans would trade you coaches in a heartbeat. He HAS won a SB, which earns him some wiggle room. And there simply aren't enough coaches waiting in the wings to go around if every coach whose fanbase is perturbed with him got their way. Be careful what you wish for.
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Regardless of how the Packers finish, there needs to be changes in the coaching front. Dom needs to go. Its not working. Personally, I think McCarthy is and has always been a terribly overrated coach. What is his win percentage without Rodgers/Favre? He has been standing on their shoulders for years. There are bonehead calls every week... Look no further than the TYFNC (Thank You For Not Coaching) section of Bill Barnwell's column on Grantland every single week. McCarthy is always there. This week:
This is obviously not his first mention. I don't understand why people stand behind the guy. Sure he won a Super Bowl, but I'm also under the belief that he is as responsible for that win as for the numerous eggs he has laid over his tenure... and there have been more eggs than Lombardi trophies. Start the flaming now.
I think he should have kicked the FG. If he goes for the TD, and doesn't get it, the Vikings really only have to go about 65 yards for the win. As it stood, they exceeded that amount on their next drive and it ended in a tie.
A tie wasn't that bad of a result for the Packers.
No flaming, I'm not a Packers fan, but I can't get on him for that call. Would you have gone for a TD there in OT? I think he played the percentages. If you don't get the TD, Minnesota wins with a FG. If it was 4th and goal from the 1, probably go for it. I would imagine if he went for it, didn't make it and lost that he would be in Grantland's column as well....right?
Probably not. Barnwell wants coaches to be aggressive. Which is easy for him to say since he isn't coaching anywhere but from behind a keyboard.
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Here's the thing. Most Detroit fans would trade you coaches in a heartbeat. He HAS won a SB, which earns him some wiggle room. And there simply aren't enough coaches waiting in the wings to go around if every coach whose fanbase is perturbed with him got their way. Be careful what you wish for.
Is McCarthy Sean Payton or Jim Harbaugh? No way.
But he isn't a bad coach by any means, and is great with young players in the locker room, which is exactly what Thompson wants from a coach. I think he deserves a great deal of the credit for that Super Bowl win and the tone that he set toward the end of that year.
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Regardless of how the Packers finish, there needs to be changes in the coaching front. Dom needs to go. Its not working. Personally, I think McCarthy is and has always been a terribly overrated coach. What is his win percentage without Rodgers/Favre? He has been standing on their shoulders for years. There are bonehead calls every week... Look no further than the TYFNC (Thank You For Not Coaching) section of Bill Barnwell's column on Grantland every single week. McCarthy is always there. This week:
I agree Dom needs to go - just too many guys out of position game after game.
Bill Belichick is also a terribly over-rated coach - losing record without Brady. One career playoff win without him ::)
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No flaming, I'm not a Packers fan, but I can't get on him for that call. Would you have gone for a TD there in OT? I think he played the percentages. If you don't get the TD, Minnesota wins with a FG. If it was 4th and goal from the 1, probably go for it. I would imagine if he went for it, didn't make it and lost that he would be in Grantland's column as well....right?
You're probably right. Typically, Barnwell checks the statistics and follows those... very moneyball type of columnist.
I feel like there are probably three or four times a game where I am dumbfounded with McCarthy's decision making... but it could be worse. The Packers could have Ron Rivera or Leslie Frazier.
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I agree Dom needs to go - just too many guys out of position game after game.
Bill Belichick is also a terribly over-rated coach - losing record without Brady. One career playoff win without him ::)
I lived in Cleveland for a good chunk of B.B's tenure with the Browns. I think we would all agree you can be a much better coach if you have really good players. <insert Tom Crean here if you wish, along with just about every other coach>
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I lived in Cleveland for a good chunk of B.B's tenure with the Browns. I think we would all agree you can be a much better coach if you have really good players. <insert Tom Crean here if you wish, along with just about every other coach>
Hey now, no Bush doctrine in this thread!
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If you're looking for some McCarthy hate, check out this guy's twitter.
https://twitter.com/ny2lasports
He's normally a source for bb recruiting, but on Sundays spews loathing.
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Here is my argument.
At every level of football...from youth, to high school, to college...it is almost always played outdoors and in the elements. Unlike basketball, volleyball, etc. it is an integral part of the game.
The fact that youth leagues, high schools, etc cannot afford to build climate controlled indoor facilities, is not a good reason for the NFL game to be played in anything other than ideal conditions.
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The fact that youth leagues, high schools, etc cannot afford to build climate controlled indoor facilities, is not a good reason for the NFL game to be played in anything other than ideal conditions.
I don't think indoor facilities with plastic fields are ideal.
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I don't think indoor facilities with plastic fields are ideal.
Have you been on FieldTurf?
If not, go to Valley Fields, it's really nice stuff. Optimally, you could run a retractable roof with GrassMaster, but FieldTurf is nothing to scoff at.
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I think he should have kicked the FG. If he goes for the TD, and doesn't get it, the Vikings really only have to go about 65 yards for the win. As it stood, they exceeded that amount on their next drive and it ended in a tie.
A tie wasn't that bad of a result for the Packers.
I've been hearing a fair amount of talk about this call with everyone saying he should have gone for it because at worst the Vikings have the ball at the 2 with Christian Ponder. Apparently everyone forgot the at least 2 times(might have been three) the Packers pinned the Vikings inside of the 5, including once at the 2 and the D let them out to at least the 50 and gave up a score on one of the drives.
Boggles the mind that the defense could change so much that 2 years ago it was the league leader in take aways and now is the league worst in take aways.
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Have you been on FieldTurf?
If not, go to Valley Fields, it's really nice stuff. Optimally, you could run a retractable roof with GrassMaster, but FieldTurf is nothing to scoff at.
I don't mind field turf outdoors.
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I don't mind field turf outdoors.
Well, there we go.
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Boggles the mind that the defense could change so much that 2 years ago it was the league leader in take aways and now is the league worst in take aways.
Nick Collins was better than we all realized at the time - and I thought he was very, very good. They have not been able to replace him at all.
Charles Woodson got old. Tramon Williams is getting there.
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Well, there we go.
I probably should have kept the "plastic field" part out of my initial post.
I think football is "ideal" is played outdoors with well maintained natural turf fields, or if need be fieldturf. I just think the outdoor elements are part of the game.
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I probably should have kept the "plastic field" part out of my initial post.
I think football is "ideal" is played outdoors with well maintained natural turf fields, or if need be fieldturf. I just think the outdoor elements are part of the game.
This isn't acceptable?
(http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bears-huddle/files/2011/08/soldier_turf_02-e1312588119362.jpg)
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Boggles the mind that the defense could change so much that 2 years ago it was the league leader in take aways and now is the league worst in take aways.
Takeaways often cover up weaknesses that are exposed when opponents take care of the ball.
Sincerely,
The Chicago Bears
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I've been hearing a fair amount of talk about this call with everyone saying he should have gone for it because at worst the Vikings have the ball at the 2 with Christian Ponder. Apparently everyone forgot the at least 2 times(might have been three) the Packers pinned the Vikings inside of the 5, including once at the 2 and the D let them out to at least the 50 and gave up a score on one of the drives.
Boggles the mind that the defense could change so much that 2 years ago it was the league leader in take aways and now is the league worst in take aways.
If you're going to say that the Packers couldn't stop the Vikings no matter where they start then I'd agree. All the more reason to try and win the game when you have a chance. Why kick the FG if you know your defense has been garbage all game?
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This isn't acceptable?
(http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bears-huddle/files/2011/08/soldier_turf_02-e1312588119362.jpg)
I have no idea how to judge a playing surface from a picture.
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I have no idea how to judge a playing surface from a picture.
Just rest assured, that if it is the bears playing surface, then it sucks.
There is no excuse for poor playing surfaces regardless of the weather.
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If you're going to say that the Packers couldn't stop the Vikings no matter where they start then I'd agree. All the more reason to try and win the game when you have a chance. Why kick the FG if you know your defense has been garbage all game?
I'm just saying that, without any actual statistics, that if they don't make it I didn't think the defense had enough to prevent a field goal. The defense was able to clamp down in the red zone a fair amount because they didn't have as much ground to cover and as many crossing/post routes to manage. So my point was if the Packers gave it up at the 2, they(Viqueens) were likely to move into better field position and then a 50/50 proposition at a game winning field goal.
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There is no excuse for poor playing surfaces regardless of the weather.
I don't disagree with that.
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We talk about the QB position all the time (both here and in the media), and it's always an interesting discussion. To me, the RG3 trade is becoming more and more fascinating. A year ago, people were killing the Rams (and the Browns) for making (not making) a move up for RG3.
A year later, both the Rams (and Browns) are in much better positions than the Skins. The Rams, with a solid defense in place, are going to get a top 5 pick next year (in addition to their own pick) from the Skins. Whether or not they want to go with Bradford long term remains to be seen, but they are a team quickly on the rise. Same goes with the Browns. Obviously they have QB issues that need to be addressed, but by not making that deal to move up (and their dealing of Richardson for a 1st rounder), they are in a far better position to be succsessful long term. If there were stock to buy, I'd be all in on the Rams and Browns. Write it down, next year, Cleveland is making the playoffs.
It depends how you feel on RG3 and his future, but I'd argue if the Skins had taken Cousins where they did, and kept the rest of their picks (and future picks), they'd be in a much better position today.
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We talk about the QB position all the time (both here and in the media), and it's always an interesting discussion. To me, the RG3 trade is becoming more and more fascinating. A year ago, people were killing the Rams (and the Browns) for making (not making) a move up for RG3.
A year later, both the Rams (and Browns) are in much better positions than the Skins. The Rams, with a solid defense in place, are going to get a top 5 pick next year (in addition to their own pick) from the Skins. Whether or not they want to go with Bradford long term remains to be seen, but they are a team quickly on the rise. Same goes with the Browns. Obviously they have QB issues that need to be addressed, but by not making that deal to move up (and their dealing of Richardson for a 1st rounder), they are in a far better position to be succsessful long term. If there were stock to buy, I'd be all in on the Rams and Browns. Write it down, next year, Cleveland is making the playoffs.
It depends how you feel on RG3 and his future, but I'd argue if the Skins had taken Cousins where they did, and kept the rest of their picks (and future picks), they'd be in a much better position today.
But fans want instant gratification. That’s why so many criticize Ted Thompson. The fact of the matter is mid and late round draft choices are the ones that make or break most teams.
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The Lions want to do everything possible to lose.
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The Lions want to do everything possible to lose.
I'm saying the same thing about Green Bay right about now (close to halftime).
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I think it's official after the last 2 weeks. This team is done this year. Unless Rodgers can coach defense or play safety, his return isn't going to make much difference.
I've watched GB since the crap teams of the 70's and this is the WORST defensive team I have seen. Weak. Soft. Extremely poorly coached. Jennings is probably the worst starting safety in the league. Pickett is through - getting killed by the center. No need to double team.
Can we keep the Lions under 700 yards? The big question for the 2nd half. Can our offense stay within 500 yards of Detroit's offense? Has any team ever been outgained by 500 yards in a single game. They only outgained us by 300 in ONE HALF.
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I think it's official after the last 2 weeks. This team is done this year. Unless Rodgers can coach defense or play safety, his return isn't going to make much difference.
I've watched GB since the crap teams of the 70's and this is the WORST defensive team I have seen. Weak. Soft. Extremely poorly coached. Jennings is probably the worst starting safety in the league. Pickett is through - getting killed by the center. No need to double team.
Can we keep the Lions under 700 yards? The big question for the 2nd half. Can our offense stay within 500 yards of Detroit's offense? Has any team ever been outgained by 500 yards in a single game. They only outgained us by 300 in ONE HALF.
My Cowboys gave up 600+ to these guys a few weeks ago only to give up 600+ two weeks later to the Saints. I've never seen a worse defense than the Cowboys.
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I'm thankful for the quality TEAM Teddy boy has put together.
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That was a whipping.
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If Stafford wasn't a turnover machine, this probably would have be over a 50 point loss.
Worst I have ever seen them play Awful on offense, awful on defense, awful on special teams.
This falls on the coaches. Capers is outclassed in every game. He doesn't have a solid plan for the start of the game and is unwilling or unable to make adjustments
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I can't recall the last time I saw a Packer team so completely incompetent. And I mean that as a compliment.
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Missed the game but what happened to Boykins?
Was it Flynn related (read: Flynn couldn't throw)?
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I am speechless. If changes aren't made the organization has its heads up their arses.
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I can't recall the last time I saw a Packer team so completely incompetent. And I mean that as a compliment.
You nailed it.
Pathetic.
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Missed the game but what happened to Boykins?
Was it Flynn related (read: Flynn couldn't throw)?
Flynn was bad...the OL was bad. A terrible combination.
Really there was not a single redeeming quality to that game.
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Shouldn't have called the Lion D-line scumbags. They seemed to take it personally. AR back there making quick decisions and getting the ball out on time makes a helluva difference. Detroit still tried to give away the game on offense and with special teams. Akers getting iced? How old is he? Knocking two kickoffs out of bounds? (OK, he IS a rookie). Two stupid int's and another fumble by Bush. Ye, gods, Chicago, steal this division.
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This game had absolutely nothing to do with Sitton's comments.
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Really there was not a single redeeming quality to that game.
Disagree. Packers lost.
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This game had absolutely nothing to do with Sitton's comments.
Yesterday's game is the first time all year that the D-line has looked focused on every snap. Perhaps it is a coincidence and they simply have finally found themselves. I strongly suspect they will look scattered and erratic next week.
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Yesterday's game is the first time all year that the D-line has looked focused on every snap. Perhaps it is a coincidence and they simply have finally found themselves. I strongly suspect they will look scattered and erratic next week.
Pretty easy to look like world beaters when the packers OL is destroyed by injuries.
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Pretty easy to look like world beaters when the packers OL is destroyed by injuries.
And one of the replacements is a guy named Marshall Newhouse.
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No argument. The GB OL was beat up and allowed Flynn to get beat up.
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And one of the replacements is a guy named Marshall Newhouse.
I have no idea how he holds a contract in the NFL. He isn't even serviceable. Another great question is will Sherrod ever see the field? I'm guessing he is our second coming of Justin Harrel.
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I realize there's a lot going on outside football, but on the field, Winston is the best college QB prospect I think I've ever seen.
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I realize there's a lot going on outside football, but on the field, Winston is the best college QB prospect I think I've ever seen.
Not for me, not against the ACC. Then again I grew up watching some pretty crazy college qb's out here like Troy Aikman, Warren Moon, Andrew Luck, John Elway, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Bledsoe, Mark Brunell, Chandler, Plummer, Palmer, (I was too young for Fouts, Plunkett, etc) etc...I've been lucky to see some amazing Pac 12 QBs over the years.
We'll see how good Winston is, assuming he isn't wearing an orange jumpsuit during Sundays.
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I realize there's a lot going on outside football, but on the field, Winston is the best college QB prospect I think I've ever seen.
And isn't baseball his best sport?
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Best news today is that there is no way the Lions can tick me off.
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So Rodgers done for year?
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So Rodgers done for year?
Along with the Packers.
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So Rodgers done for year?
Are they shutting him down, or only shutting him down if they have another loss?
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Are they shutting him down, or only shutting him down if they have another loss?
Shutting him down if they are out of playoff contention, which is pretty apparent now.
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Alshon is having a monster year, what a catch.
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Insane catch.
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Alshon is having a monster year, what a catch.
Just...wow.
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What a couple of bumbling teams!
Vikes were able to win the game 3 separate times. Only problem was #40 blew the 1st 2.
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Lion fan says thank you to the Vikings.
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Not even sure what to say.
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Not even sure what to say.
Not a Bear's fan, but why did they attempt the field goal on second down? It was second and seven from the Minnesota 29. Why not run the ball to try to get some extra yards, then kick it on third down as opposed to a 47 yarder?
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Not a Bear's fan, but why did they attempt the field goal on second down? It was second and seven from the Minnesota 29. Why not run the ball to try to get some extra yards, then kick it on third down as opposed to a 47 yarder?
No clue, made no sense.
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I think the NFC Central has been a case study for pathetic coaching this year.
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Lion fan says thank you to the Vikings.
They should thank the Bears
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I think the NFC Central has been a case study for pathetic coaching this year.
What's that?
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I know not many on here saw it live, but that was one of the worst official's mess up's ever in SNF game. Can't happen.
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I think the NFC Central has been a case study for pathetic coaching this year.
It is also Exhibit A in the case against expanding to an 18 game schedule. Injuries (to admittedly flawed team) have turned what was an extremely strong and competitive division a month or so ago, into an absolute suckfest.
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They should thank the Bears
Hate to say it, but I'm beginning to see why Trestman was an OC for so long without getting an NFL head coaching gig.
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What's that?
Accurate - The Buccaneers have also been the victim of horrible coaching.
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Point is there is no NFC Central. Does not exist.
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Point is there is no NFC Central. Does not exist.
Obviously I was talking about the NFC North - without thinking, I just used BB divisions rather than football.
I think everyone else knew that. But I really appreciate the correction ::)
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Obviously I was talking about the NFC North - without thinking, I just used BB divisions rather than football.
I think everyone else knew that. But I really appreciate the correction ::)
According to one blowhard it is the NFC Norris division.
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The Buccaneers have also been the victim of horrible coaching.
And a brutal staph infection.
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Not even sure what to say.
Curious that at the end of regulation Trestman opted for the 66yd FG from Gould. And while I am a big Gould fan, there is no way he makes that, ever. The Bears have 2 of the better jump ball WRs in the NFL, isn't a hail mary a much better option?
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Curious that at the end of regulation Trestman opted for the 66yd FG from Gould. And while I am a big Gould fan, there is no way he makes that, ever. The Bears have 2 of the better jump ball WRs in the NFL, isn't a hail mary a much better option?
Concerning that Trestman has made two crucial decisions that have led to two key Bears losses (starting Cutler against Detroit, and yesterday's mind blowing decision). Not to say that this is a solid playoff caliber team (it isn't), but bad head coaching decisions like those are unacceptable.
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Curious that at the end of regulation Trestman opted for the 66yd FG from Gould. And while I am a big Gould fan, there is no way he makes that, ever. The Bears have 2 of the better jump ball WRs in the NFL, isn't a hail mary a much better option?
I thought the same as you. But then when Gould barely missed it (it was only a yard or two short), maybe they figured the long field goal was a greater possibility.
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Curious that at the end of regulation Trestman opted for the 66yd FG from Gould. And while I am a big Gould fan, there is no way he makes that, ever. The Bears have 2 of the better jump ball WRs in the NFL, isn't a hail mary a much better option?
Actually, he can make that field goal. He missed a 47 harder in the game, but under the right conditions (and I don't mean a gale force wind) he is capable of making a 67 harder.
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If the Saints go to Philly on Wild Card weekend, they're in trouble.
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Concerning that Trestman has made two crucial decisions that have led to two key Bears losses (starting Cutler against Detroit, and yesterday's mind blowing decision). Not to say that this is a solid playoff caliber team (it isn't), but bad head coaching decisions like those are unacceptable.
I didn't have a problem with Cutler starting against Detroit since he was medically cleared. Trestman just left him in there too long after it was obvious that he was hurting. Either way, I guess it's the same basic argument.
In the end, giving away those two games is likely going to cost the Bears a playoff spot. Had they won those, they'd have a 2-game lead plus the best intradivisional record in the North.
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If the Saints go to Philly on Wild Card weekend, they're in trouble.
Last night's game is what I mean about why I like football to be played in the elements. The turf was fine, and the weather was by no means extreme...but you had a little rain, a little cold weather. To me that is part of the game of football.
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The BCS standings as of today are a joke. Form where Im sitting, Auburn beating Alabama is an argument to put Auburn in the National Championship game, not an argument to take Alabama out. The schedules Florida State and Ohio State have played simply do not compete. Yet if they both win next week, they'll be in, which is a joke. (though I think Auburn still has a chance). With a win over Mizzou, Auburn and Alabama both appear more deserving.
wrong thread? ;)
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Kubiak should be fired tonight. That team has quit, undisciplined, terribly coached. Texans are a joke.
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Kubiak should be fired tonight. That team has quit, undisciplined, terribly coached. Texans are a joke.
I was at the game last night, and let me say, Case Keenum should never play another snap for them if Schaub is healthy. The Texans moved the ball with ease once Gary finally made the switch, just was too little too late.
I did enjoy the performance of Andre Johnson, from a fantasy perspective.
The Jaguars, after 0-8 are still alive for the 6 seed. MJD actually showed a burst last night, and then of course tweaked a hamstring.
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Kubiak should be fired tonight. That team has quit, undisciplined, terribly coached. Texans are a joke.
(http://empowermoments.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/whos-the-man.jpg)
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Kubiak should be fired tonight. That team has quit, undisciplined, terribly coached. Texans are a joke.
Got that wish, he is gone.
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I was at the game last night, and let me say, Case Keenum should never play another snap for them if Schaub is healthy. The Texans moved the ball with ease once Gary finally made the switch, just was too little too late.
I did enjoy the performance of Andre Johnson, from a fantasy perspective.
The Jaguars, after 0-8 are still alive for the 6 seed. MJD actually showed a burst last night, and then of course tweaked a hamstring.
This isn't an endorsement of Kennum, but under no circumstance should he have been pulled from that game (except injury). What was putting Schaub in going to accomplish? I'm by no means a Texans fan, but Kubiak deserved to get canned.
Hell of a job by Gus Bradley, that roster is garbage, and for him to coach that team up, keep them going during the season, he deserves Coach of the Year consideration.
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Is Rodgers playing or not? I have a big fantasy playoff decision to make
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Is Rodgers playing or not? I have a big fantasy playoff decision to make
Despite what they have/haven't said, I'm starting to think its 50/50 at worst. Were I the Falcons, I think I'd be preparing to see him. Packers have actually done a good job with this one.
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Despite what they have/haven't said, I'm starting to think its 50/50 at worst. Were I the Falcons, I think I'd be preparing to see him. Packers have actually done a good job with this one.
GB wants the Falcons to prepare for him but no way he's playing this weekend.
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Is Rodgers playing or not? I have a big fantasy playoff decision to make
Officially ruled out earlier today.
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I know it won't happen but what about this scenario. Capers is going to get fired (I hope?) and our defense already has 3-4 type players so switching to a 4-3 would be dumb. Rex Ryan is prolly on his way out in NY. He is a great defensive coach and I think would be a good Def coordinator for us next year. Players take on the mentality of their coaches and he would bring toughness.
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I know it won't happen but what about this scenario. Capers is going to get fired (I hope?) and our defense already has 3-4 type players so switching to a 4-3 would be dumb. Rex Ryan is prolly on his way out in NY. He is a great defensive coach and I think would be a good Def coordinator for us next year. Players take on the mentality of their coaches and he would bring toughness.
First, it is my understanding that Capers' contract is ending this year...so my guess is that he will not be fired but will simply "retire."
Second, I really doubt the Packers will have interest in a guy with a personality like Rex Ryan as defensive coordinator
Third, how good a defensive coordinator is Rex Ryan? Of the five defensive coordinators at Baltimore prior to the current one, four were hired as NFL coaches (Lewis, Nolan, Ryan, Pagano). So were all four of these guys great defensive coaches? Or did they all benefit from coaching some fantastic players - two of which were arguably the greatest to play their positions? (Lewis and Reed)
Finally, I'm trying to figure out what your last sentence means. Was Dom Capers not tough? Was he tough three years ago? How did he lose his toughness? Are the Jets tough? They are 39-36 during his career.
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I know it won't happen but what about this scenario. Capers is going to get fired (I hope?) and our defense already has 3-4 type players so switching to a 4-3 would be dumb. Rex Ryan is prolly on his way out in NY. He is a great defensive coach and I think would be a good Def coordinator for us next year. Players take on the mentality of their coaches and he would bring toughness.
No. Just no.
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Officially ruled out earlier today.
Is there a source to this, can't find one anywhere
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http://www.jsonline.com/
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Is there a source to this, can't find one anywhere
Check Adam Schefter's twitter about 2 hours ago. that's where I saw it. Or just google Aaron Rodgers and all of the news stories are about him not plaing this weekend.
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This isn't an endorsement of Kennum, but under no circumstance should he have been pulled from that game (except injury). What was putting Schaub in going to accomplish? I'm by no means a Texans fan, but Kubiak deserved to get canned.
Hell of a job by Gus Bradley, that roster is garbage, and for him to coach that team up, keep them going during the season, he deserves Coach of the Year consideration.
I get what you are saying because you need to see what you have in Keenum, especially before you run out and spend the #1 pick on Clowney/Bridgewater/etc.
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I know the tundra hasn't really been frozen since the Ice Bowl, but it looks pretty frigid today.
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I can't imagine playing in the conditions in Philadelphia. Unfortunately, I've got a couple fantasy players on the field. So that sucks.
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Lock of the year, Shanahan will be fired in next 24 hours. Both of them, and Haslett.
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Lock of the year, Shanahan will be fired in next 24 hours. Both of them, and Haslett.
Apparently, he almost resigned last season. So, not so sure it'll be that big of a deal.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10101919/mike-shanahan-was-ready-quit-washington-redskins-2012-season
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I can't imagine playing in the conditions in Philadelphia. Unfortunately, I've got a couple fantasy players on the field. So that sucks.
I love it...I love the conditions, especially since my opponent has a bunch of Eagles and Lions in that game.
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Pack gave up a little too early on Jeremy Ross, a'ina?
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Pack gave up a little too early on Jeremy Ross, a'ina?
The dude cost us a Super Bowl. He also did it again early this season. If anything, they gave up on him too late.
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As someone with Nick Foles on his fantasy team.... unnatural carnal knowledge you Celek!!!
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Vikes/Ravens unreal.
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Vikes/Ravens unreal.
insane really. Never seen anything like this.
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insane really. Never seen anything like this.
My Ravens,(nyg-not Giants), seem to do this all the time. I thought the Auburn-Alabama game was unreal, nothing compared to last three minutes of this game.
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And Steelers-Dolphins was almost an incredible ending.
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Literally can not believe Vikes/Ravens finish. Most incredible final two minutes ever? Just wow.
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Patriots with an onside recovery! These may be the most exciting games/finishes of the season.
Will all these snow/weather games change people's minds about not wanting a cold super bowl? Probably not.
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I need a cigarette. And I don't smoke.
Holy $hit.
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Might be the craziest day in the NFL I have seen maybe ever, certainly in a long long time.
Thank you DIRECTV NFL Sunday Ticket ;)
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Might be the craziest day in the NFL I have seen maybe ever, certainly in a long long time.
Thank you DIRECTV NFL Sunday Ticket ;)
Thank you free streaming RedZone channel ;)
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Thank you free streaming RedZone channel ;)
Which our team created and then the NFL took away in the last negotiation. So again, thank you DIRECTV for creating the Red Zone channel and birthing it.
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As someone with Nick Foles on his fantasy team.... unnatural carnal knowledge you Celek!!!
Nice weather - I had everyone except my TE playing in snow today.
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And the Packers are 0.5 games back in the NFC North. What a joke the division is.
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Prater hits one from 64 yards for new NFL record. What a crazy day.
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Cutler/Titans stuff is interesting. Has some legs to it.
Be interesting if Bears tendered with intent to trade.
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Cutler/Titans stuff is interesting. Has some legs to it.
Be interesting if Bears tendered with intent to trade.
Dish - if Bears traded Cutler in off-season.. where would they go for QB? Draft? Free agency?
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Dish - if Bears traded Cutler in off-season.. where would they go for QB? Draft? Free agency?
(http://wac.9ebf.edgecastcdn.net/809EBF/ec-origin.chicago.barstoolsports.com/files/2012/11/i.png)
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(http://wac.9ebf.edgecastcdn.net/809EBF/ec-origin.chicago.barstoolsports.com/files/2012/11/i.png)
So they don't need a back-up then?
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(http://wac.9ebf.edgecastcdn.net/809EBF/ec-origin.chicago.barstoolsports.com/files/2012/11/i.png)
Bingo
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So they don't need a back-up then?
If the Cutler rumors do have legs, then the Bears are going to resign McCown and get a QB in the draft. McCown will be there until whatever draft pick is ready to roll.
I don't see the Bears being able to overhaul that defense in one offseason to championship caliber, so why not? Whatever contract Cutler signs will be bad money ultimately, in my opinion. Too many injuries for him, but I think he has the talent.
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@Pittsburgh
vs Tampa
vs Green Bay
@ Philadelphia
vs Baltimore
vs NY Giants
@ Minnesota
Anywhere from 8-8 to 12-4. 20 years since Detroit last won the division. If there is a way to mess it up, they will. Of course, for Detroit to lose it, Chicago or GB have to play well enough to win it. That may be the bigger challenge.
Man, I look smart several weeks later. The way they are playing and Schwarz is coaching, 7-9 is on the table. Astounding. If they lose the division, I don't see how Jimmy keeps his job. 4-6 inches of snow on the ground, and his tush is still feeling the heat.
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Prater hits one from 64 yards for new NFL record. What a crazy day.
So, the ball is juiced, hey?
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Man, I look smart several weeks later. The way they are playing and Schwarz is coaching, 7-9 is on the table. Astounding. If they lose the division, I don't see how Jimmy keeps his job. 4-6 inches of snow on the ground, and his tush is still feeling the heat.
Next week is everything. Baltimore has struggled this year, but is still a pretty talented team. If the Lions lose, it gets very interesting, and the wheels could come off all together, if they find themselves looking up at Green Bay and/or Chicago. Lions were arguably the most talented team in the division, and have been the healthiest, yet here they are hanging by a fingernail.
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A lot of the time, the NFL hype annoys me. The over the top pre game crap...every storyline played out continuously...bad Thursday football...pink October...blah blah blah.
And then you have a day like yesterday with weather, exciting endings, and capped off with a playoff like Seattle v. San Francisco game, and you just wish the NFL would get out of its way and just let the product speak for itself.
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Man, I look smart several weeks later. The way they are playing and Schwarz is coaching, 7-9 is on the table. Astounding. If they lose the division, I don't see how Jimmy keeps his job. 4-6 inches of snow on the ground, and his tush is still feeling the heat.
As a Bears fan I hate to say it, but I'd put my money on the 9-6-1 Packers to win the North.
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http://deadspin.com/nothing-is-better-than-football-in-the-snow-1479467849
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As a Bears fan I hate to say it, but I'd put my money on the 9-6-1 Packers to win the North.
If Rodgers comes back, yes. The game in Dallas might be over at 85 if he does. Two good offenses (when Rodgers playing), two not so good defenses.
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As a Bears fan I hate to say it, but I'd put my money on the 9-6-1 Packers to win the North.
Unlikely, but it wouldn't shock me to see 8-7-1 win the North
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A lot of the time, the NFL hype annoys me. The over the top pre game crap...every storyline played out continuously...bad Thursday football...pink October...blah blah blah.
And then you have a day like yesterday with weather, exciting endings, and capped off with a playoff like Seattle v. San Francisco game, and you just wish the NFL would get out of its way and just let the product speak for itself.
Absolutely spot on.
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If the Bears aren't going to win the North (and they really don't deserve to), I hope it's the Packers (no offense Tower).
A healthy Rodgers and Pack team in the playoffs would be a real wild card in the tournament.
As much as I follow and love the NFL, I keep realizing the more I know, the less I understand (sorry Don Henley). I thought the Lions were a lock a month ago, the Jags had winless season written all over them, now they are the hottest team in the AFC.
I have no idea who wins tonight, none.
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I have no idea who wins tonight, none.
Seems like the Cowboys would fit right in with the NFC North.
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I'm not offended. And remember that the Lions are never a lock.
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... the Jags had winless season written all over them, now they are the hottest team in the AFC....
And they are home dogs to a Bills team who just got pulverized in Tampa, go figure.
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What's the scoop on Rodgers for Dallas...I assume he is playing? I'm in my fantasy super bowl unless Marshall scores like 4 TD's tonight, and I've been riding Rodgers on the pine the last 4 weeks. Any skinny?
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What's the scoop on Rodgers for Dallas...I assume he is playing? I'm in my fantasy super bowl unless Marshall scores like 4 TD's tonight, and I've been riding Rodgers on the pine the last 4 weeks. Any skinny?
Twitter reports are that he still isn't cleared and Flynn is being prepped. Pretty hard to tell how much of that is smoke until reports surface from Wednesday's practice.
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What's the scoop on Rodgers for Dallas...I assume he is playing? I'm in my fantasy super bowl unless Marshall scores like 4 TD's tonight, and I've been riding Rodgers on the pine the last 4 weeks. Any skinny?
Supposedly another scan tomorrow. If it isn't clean, sounds like little chance he will play.
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Twitter reports are that he still isn't cleared and Flynn is being prepped. Pretty hard to tell how much of that is smoke until reports surface from Wednesday's practice.
If I were the Packers, I'd try to play possum as long as possible and make the Cowboys prep for both of them.
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Tonight's weather at Soldier is why there should never be a cold weather Super Bowl. I sold my seats tonight to some Cowboy fans he paid $500 for the pair. Insanity.
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Tonight's weather at Soldier is why there should never be a cold weather Super Bowl. I sold my seats tonight to some Cowboy fans he paid $500 for the pair. Insanity.
I thought yesterday's bad weather was awesome, but I will not disagree with you on the Super Bowl. I've been to plenty of them and have very little interest in attending this year. I have a sneaky feeling many of the "regulars" to the game from the corporate world will not be going this year and will sell their tickets off....that's a good thing in many ways.
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FWIW, NFL experts on twitter blowing up saying trade Cutler after the tender.
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Same as it ever way. Cowboys defense just brutal...absolutely brutal. Bears defense, a close 2nd.
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FWIW, NFL experts on twitter blowing up saying trade Cutler after the tender.
Heard that as well. I just don't think they'll get much of anything for him in that scenario. Better be chain you have a deal worked out.
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Oh my, Jeffrey, wow. Beast.
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Oh my, Jeffrey, wow. Beast.
Consider the opponent...Marquette club football could hang 14 on the Cowboys.
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Consider the opponent...Marquette club football could hang 14 on the Cowboys.
Jeffrey is having an absolutely incredible year. He's arguably sevond best in NFC.
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Ditka!
(http://zamblings.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/ditka-middle-finger.jpg)
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Jeffrey is having an absolutely incredible year. He's arguably sevond best in NFC.
I'm teasing, but I've seen everyone the Cowboys play have incredible games. Megatron's being the most insane. It's the worst defense in the history of the franchise and it might end up breaking the New Orleans Saints record as the worst ever. We make everyone look good. Wait until Rodgers plays them next week, it will be insane.
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I'm teasing, but I've seen everyone the Cowboys play have incredible games. Megatron's being the most insane. It's the worst defense in the history of the franchise and it might end up breaking the New Orleans Saints record as the worst ever. We make everyone look good. Wait until Rodgers plays them next week, it will be insane.
Right. I just think Dish was referring to the catch just before half in itself. It was a great catch regardless of the competition
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Jeffrey is having an absolutely incredible year. He's arguably sevond best in NFC.
He's been ridiculous, and he's up there, but truthfully, hes probably second best on his own team. I'll take Megatron, Marshall, and probably Dez Bryant, but like I said, he's right up there. I don't think he gets anywhere near the respect he deserves, but I think Jordy Nelson is probably in the Top 5 conversation as well.
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FWIW, NFL experts on twitter blowing up saying trade Cutler after the tender.
I've been on the side of the franchise tag, but with every win, their draft position gets worse, Jays value (to the Bears) declines, and the decision just gets tougher. More and more, I think they're going to just let him walk. More and more I think that may be the right decision.
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Anybody think Jay Cutler would be 21 for 27 with 263 yards, 2 touchdowns and 0 interceptions through just over a half in these conditions? Keep telling yourself he's the better starting quarterback, but that would be continuing to ignore the facts. Cutler has all the measurables but none of the intangibles or the ability to play to a game plan. McCown is the opposite.
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Anybody think Jay Cutler would be 21 for 27 with 263 yards, 2 touchdowns and 0 interceptions through just over a half in these conditions? Keep telling yourself he's the better starting quarterback, but that would be continuing to ignore the facts. Cutler has all the measurables but none of the intangibles or the ability to play to a game plan. McCown is the opposite.
Why do you care? Youre not even a Bears fan.
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Dallas looking a bit like the Packers on Thanksgiving. For the time being, beginning to look more and more like that Packer-bear game at the end of the year could be a thing.
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Dallas looking a bit lot like the Packers on Thanksgiving. For the time being, beginning to look more and more like that Packer-bear game at the end of the year could be a thing.
Just had to fix the above.
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Why do you care? Youre not even a Bears fan.
Just think it's funny that Bears fans think they're better off with a guy who turns the ball over but might hit a long play once a game vs. a guy who is consistent and values the football. It's not a coincidence that the team who wins the turnover battle almost always wins in the NFL. Jay Cutler has 159 total touchdowns to 172 total turnovers. That is not very good. In fact, that is embarrassing. He has also played in a total of 2 playoff games in his career. Not the kind of quarterback I would want under center, personally.
For comparison's sake, Aaron Rodgers has 261 total touchdowns to 99 total turnovers. Tom Brady has 486 total touchdowns compared to 251 total turnovers. Peyton Manning has 534 total touchdowns compared to 313 total turnovers. Drew Brees has 389 total touchdowns compared to 262 total turnovers.
Even a guy like Philip Rivers who I consider to be the most like Jay Cutler in that he has all the physical tools but just can't put it together mentally and is very turnover prone because he relies on his physical gifts and lacks fundamentals has a total of 227 touchdowns compared to 183 total turnovers. Tony Romo with 255 total touchdowns compared to 149 total turnover. Matthew Stafford 120 touchdowns compared to 99 total turnovers. Matt Schaub 135 total touchdowns to 122 total turnovers (bad). Eli Manning 248 total touchdowns to 252 total turnovers (awful). Matt Ryan 162 total touchdowns to 110 total turnovers. Joe Flacco 147 total touchdowns to 141 total turnovers (bad). Ben Rothlisberger 252 total touchdowns to 209 total touchdowns. Even the Ol' Gunslinger Brett Favre had 567 total touchdowns to 542 total turnovers.
Of all these quarterbacks Jay Cutler is far and away the worst in total touchdowns compared to total turnovers and in ratios of touchdowns to turnovers. Jay Cutler is a really, really bad quarterback.
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My only contribution to this argument that has been beaten to death is McCown has been throwing to the best 1-2 WR combo in the league right now. Never in his career has Cutler had those targets, even the first half of the season where he was having a good year. Jeffrey has exploded the last few weeks and made McCown's job alot easier. Just 2 short years ago it was Johnny Knox and Roy Williams.
Jay Cutler is a really, really bad quarterback.
That's just a dumb, hyperbolic statement. Because he's not a HOF QB like listed above, he's suddenly Blaine Gabbert. Ok cool.
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My only contribution to this argument that has been beaten to death is McCown has been throwing to the best 1-2 WR combo in the league right now. Never in his career has Cutler had those targets, even the first half of the season where he was having a good year. Jeffrey has exploded the last few weeks and made McCown's job alot easier. Just 2 short years ago it was Johnny Knox and Roy Williams.
That's just a dumb, hyperbolic statement. Because he's not a HOF QB like listed above, he's suddenly Blaine Gabbert. Ok cool.
That makes absolutely no sense. The Bears did not trade for Alshon, Brandon, and Bennet after Cutler got hurt. And again, you know your quarterback is bad when you're saying he was "having a good year" and "maybe his best year in his career" when he had 1 more touchdown than he had turnover. Probably not a coincidence they're blowing up since he got hurt.
And the Hall of Famers listed above? Some are, sure. But Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo, Eli Manning, Ben Rothlisberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Schaub, Matthew Stafford? Uhh...
Again, though, just ignore the numbers and facts. Not sure how a guy who has 13 more career turnovers than touchdowns and 1 career playoff appearance/win can be looked at as anything other than a bad quarterback.
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I would still absolutely take Cutler, no question in my mind. Bears dont beat Cinci without him and they beat Minnesota last week if he was healthy.
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That makes absolutely no sense. The Bears did not trade for Alshon, Brandon, and Bennet after Cutler got hurt. And again, you know your quarterback is bad when you're saying he was "having a good year" and "maybe his best year in his career" when he had 1 more touchdown than he had turnover. Probably not a coincidence they're blowing up since he got hurt.
And the Hall of Famers listed above? Some are, sure. But Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Tony Romo, Eli Manning, Ben Rothlisberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Schaub, Matthew Stafford? Uhh...
Again, though, just ignore the numbers and facts. Not sure how a guy who has 13 more career turnovers than touchdowns and 1 career playoff appearance/win can be looked at as anything other than a bad quarterback.
I stated it earlier, but subtracting the Lions game (in which his protection was as bad as it was when he was getting hit 15 times a game, uncommon for this year), up until his injury, his QBR was top 5 in the league. 10 TDs, 3 INTs in those 5 games. Thats what I was referring to. If he wasn't having a better year, none of this contract talk would ever have come up. They'd let him walk. Anyone who watched Cutler leading the offense early in the season saw the difference. If he doesn't hurt his groin and those numbers had continued, he gets a deal no question.
Cutler has had the keys to a competent offense with weapons for less than a half season. McCown had it the entire time. To compare the last few years with a ramshackle line, a dumbass OC, and scrubs at WR to the Bears offensive tools at McCown's disposal now isn't fair. Alshon broke out, with Cutler, in the NO game and has continued to improve like you would expect a wildly talented 2nd year WR to, it has nothing to do with QB play, I was referring to the timing. At the beginning of the season, Cutler was still relying on Marshall and Bennett, but now the passing game has opened up even more cause teams can no longer double team Marshall or Jeffrey will eat them alive. You put Cutler back at the helm and he will put up similarly gaudy numbers. For as much as the defense has evaporated, this offense has continued to progress, even when Trestman makes head scratching decisions.
But if you want to say that the offense has exploded and a WR broke out because of a 35 year old journeyman QB in a way that Cutler couldn't, go for it. You put McCown at the helm of the Lovie Smith offense, and he would be mocked and deemed "really, really bad" as well. QBs are given far too much credit and shouldered with far too much blame depending on team performance.
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I just landed in Seattle and missed the second half, but to not punt once, in that weather is incredible.
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Heard that as well. I just don't think they'll get much of anything for him in that scenario. Better be chain you have a deal worked out.
The team could franchise him so that he's under their control but then allow him to unofficially work out a contract extension with Tennessee (or whatever team). They make the trade, Titans tear up the franchise contract and sign him long-term.
There's no doubt that Cutler is a better QB than McCown and any rookie QB the Bears might draft (McCarron? Fales?). However, with as bad as the D has been, this team isn't going anywhere regardless of who's under center. Emery may need to sacrifice some production at QB (i.e. trade Cutler) in order to be able to spend more money fixing the defense.
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Cutler is still the better option. Give him the reins, if he fails to deliver then your decision is made for you.
Facts:
- The offensive line was re-built, it takes time to mesh. Mills, Bushrod, Long, etc.
- New head coach, new offense and new offensive coordinator, how many times has this happened in the last few years to the Bears...
- Passing defense rankings w/McCown, Rams 21st, Cowboys 32nd, Vikings 30th, RAVENS 13th, Packers 20th, Redskins 26th. Besides Ravens these teams are bad on defense.
It takes time for a team to mesh especially given the roster and coaching changes in the past offseason.
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With a decent sample size available now, I think it's a real conversation at this point. The question though to me isn't "who's better?", it's "which allocation of funds makes you compete for a Super Bowl?". Franchising Cutler would be $16 million. Any long term deal with signing bonus is at a minimum in that same neighborhood, but not just for one year, for multiple years. We'll stick to $16 million, Bears still would need a back up as well as McCown's deal is up. From a talent standpoint, how much do you value Cutler's WAR above McCown's? If the argument is made that McCown is only valuable to the Bears in Trestman's system (quite fair argument), then you could further the argument not to pay Cutler.
To me, it comes down to Cutler at $16 mil per year versus McCown at $5 mil per year plus how you allocate that other $11 million. Is Cutler worth that extra $11 million?
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One conclusion I can draw from this season. Phil Emery has done a pretty good job so far. And when you look at what Kansas City is doing with a real football coach, you could draw the conclusion that Emery had a significant impact on their improvement as well.
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With a decent sample size available now, I think it's a real conversation at this point. The question though to me isn't "who's better?", it's "which allocation of funds makes you compete for a Super Bowl?". Franchising Cutler would be $16 million. Any long term deal with signing bonus is at a minimum in that same neighborhood, but not just for one year, for multiple years. We'll stick to $16 million, Bears still would need a back up as well as McCown's deal is up. From a talent standpoint, how much do you value Cutler's WAR above McCown's? If the argument is made that McCown is only valuable to the Bears in Trestman's system (quite fair argument), then you could further the argument not to pay Cutler.
To me, it comes down to Cutler at $16 mil per year versus McCown at $5 mil per year plus how you allocate that other $11 million. Is Cutler worth that extra $11 million?
This is the more interesting argument. What terrifies me is looking around at most of the QBs in the league. While McCown is performing fantastically (even the biggest Cutler supporters don't deny that fact), his age and his prior career (which suggests a regression to the mean at some point) are what worries me. That $11 million saved, while allocated to improving defense, also comes with the burden of finding a QB in the draft. The Bears aren't going to be drafting high enough to get a stud, so its a crapshoot. And the Brown's search for QB replacements this season has shown there isn't a ton of quality out there. So you may end up with someone like Schaub, who is also not young. If the Bears could somehow get Cutler in range of $10mm, which I don't think is likely thanks to Flacco's dumb ass, then its an easier decision.
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One conclusion I can draw from this season. Phil Emery has done a pretty good job so far. And when you look at what Kansas City is doing with a real football coach, you could draw the conclusion that Emery had a significant impact on their improvement as well.
Agreed. However (and every GM doesn't bat 1.000), picking Shea over Chandler Jones as his first ever pick will haunt him.
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I just landed in Seattle and missed the second half, but to not punt once, in that weather is incredible.
D A L L A S C O W B O Y S
Three games this year that had no punts, two against Dallas. Dallas also had one game in which only one punt was done. On pace to give up 6,800 yards, the 2nd most in NFL history and they still have an outside shot of the all-time record.
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D A L L A S C O W B O Y S
Three games this year that had no punts, two against Dallas. Dallas also had one game in which only one punt was done. On pace to give up 6,800 yards, the 2nd most in NFL history and they still have an outside shot of the all-time record.
Gotta agree- -this is the worst defense I have ever seen in the NFL.
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One conclusion I can draw from this season. Phil Emery has done a pretty good job so far. And when you look at what Kansas City is doing with a real football coach, you could draw the conclusion that Emery had a significant impact on their improvement as well.
We don't know yet what KC is - only beat one team w/ a winning record -Philly - and that was early when they were really struggling.
Per Emery - he did an outstanding job building the O-Line, but this off-season will tell us everything about him. Obviously, he has to decide about cutler (I'd be shocked at a long-term contract), but he also has to re-build a brutally awful defense that could lose Peppers, Tillman and Jenkins.
He was put in an awful place by the previous regime. Tillman is 33 and injury prone. Jenkins is 30 - they need him but is he worth a big contract at that age. And while Briggs is under contract, approaching his mid-30s, we will start to see a decline.
Other than O-Line and receivers, the entire team needs to be re-built. Even RB as Forte approaches 30 and it's easy to look at history and see when RBs start to decline.
If he has this team competing for Division crown in 2 years, he is a miracle worker. We'll see.
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Agreed. However (and every GM doesn't bat 1.000), picking Shea over Chandler Jones as his first ever pick will haunt him.
Yeah...and Ron Wolf drafted Jon Michels back in '96. (Of course he was going to take Ray Lewis...even had him on the phone.)
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Yeah...and Ron Wolf drafted Jon Michels back in '96. (Of course he was going to take Ray Lewis...even had him on the phone.)
Never heard that before, good and interesting, love nuggets like that.
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Never heard that before, good and interesting, love nuggets like that.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/ravens-lewis-went-a-pick-too-soon-for-packers-308j3sf-189135481.html
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Why do you care? Youre not even a Bears fan.
Because some packer fans are upset with their backup and feel it necessary to stir the pot... ;)
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D A L L A S C O W B O Y S
Three games this year that had no punts, two against Dallas. Dallas also had one game in which only one punt was done. On pace to give up 6,800 yards, the 2nd most in NFL history and they still have an outside shot of the all-time record.
How 'bout them 'Boys?
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Getting a top-notch QB is REALLY hard to do.
However, you have to really put things in the context of value.
If you can trade Cutler and get a lot of value, you might be able to draft or trade for a young QB, and ride with McCown until he sucks. (maybe next year? maybe 2 years)
This isn't to say that he's as good as Jay (he's not), but if you can have McCown, and decent young QB, and a couple of young free agents instead of Jay, then that might be worth it.
But, you have to get enough in return for Jay. If you can't get much, then they might have to suck it up and sign him. QB purgatory is a tough place to escape.
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Getting a top-notch QB is REALLY hard to do.
However, you have to really put things in the context of value.
If you can trade Cutler and get a lot of value, you might be able to draft or trade for a young QB, and ride with McCown until he sucks. (maybe next year? maybe 2 years)
This isn't to say that he's as good as Jay (he's not), but if you can have McCown, and decent young QB, and a couple of young free agents instead of Jay, then that might be worth it.
But, you have to get enough in return for Jay. If you can't get much, then they might have to suck it up and sign him. QB purgatory is a tough place to escape.
Totally agree. I think what needs to be figured out though is if Trestman's system, with those WR's and Forte, is that system capable of sustaining McCown (or someone similar)? Cutler will be on the wrong side of 30 with this next contract. Is your short term window to win better with McCown and cash to spend? Possibly.
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Per Emery - he did an outstanding job building the O-Line, but this off-season will tell us everything about him. Obviously, he has to decide about cutler (I'd be shocked at a long-term contract), but he also has to re-build a brutally awful defense that could lose Peppers, Tillman and Jenkins.
He was put in an awful place by the previous regime. Tillman is 33 and injury prone. Jenkins is 30 - they need him but is he worth a big contract at that age. And while Briggs is under contract, approaching his mid-30s, we will start to see a decline.
Other than O-Line and receivers, the entire team needs to be re-built. Even RB as Forte approaches 30 and it's easy to look at history and see when RBs start to decline.
Facts:
Tim Jennings. Not Jenkins.
And your injury prone line about Tillman is wrong. He has been in the league 11 years and has 2 seasons where he didn't play at least 14 games: 16, 8, 15, 14, 15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 8(This season).
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How 'bout them 'Boys?
Same as it ever was. .500 record over the last 17 years. An owner that won't fire himself as GM. It's a lot of fun. The days of me working as a kid at Cowboys training camp in Thousand Oaks with Tom Landry, Staubach, Dorsett, White, Too Tall, Martin, etc.....long long time ago.
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Sorry if it was posted already. Bears Eagles flexed to Sunday night Dec. 22nd.
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Same as it ever was. .500 record over the last 17 years. An owner that won't fire himself as GM. It's a lot of fun. The days of me working as a kid at Cowboys training camp in Thousand Oaks with Tom Landry, Staubach, Dorsett, White, Too Tall, Martin, etc.....long long time ago.
It's always about Chicos.
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/47/47b6389f8ec1ceef3a330d5d9c74833812f0ce96368fad2c51a4acce3521a6c0.jpg)
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Totally agree. I think what needs to be figured out though is if Trestman's system, with those WR's and Forte, is that system capable of sustaining McCown (or someone similar)? Cutler will be on the wrong side of 30 with this next contract. Is your short term window to win better with McCown and cash to spend? Possibly.
There are high IQ, "system" QBs out there to be had in the draft (McCarron, Fales, etc), that will likely be available in the late 1st who could fit into Trestman's system. The Bears could also potentially add a higher pick in a Cutler trade.
What would the Titans give up for Cutler? A 1st and 3rd this season plus a 2nd next year? Possibly a young DE or CB thrown in place of a pick? Too much? Not enough?
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There are high IQ, "system" QBs out there to be had in the draft (McCarron, Fales, etc), that will likely be available in the late 1st who could fit into Trestman's system. The Bears could also potentially add a higher pick in a Cutler trade.
What would the Titans give up for Cutler? A 1st and 3rd this season plus a 2nd next year? Possibly a young DE or CB thrown in place of a pick? Too much? Not enough?
Maybe I'm way off base here but I don't get the feeling that Cutler is going to hold out for a huge, Flacco-type contract. If the Bears can sign him for 4-5 years for less than $10 million per year, I think they'll do it. I don't think the Bears are going to offer $16 million + per year to keep him and I may be crazy but I don't get the feeling Jay is positioning himself for that big a number. I guess the question becomes is he worth $8 million per year? $9 million? We'll see... I'm thrilled with McCown keeping the Bears in the playoff discussion but he isn't the long term solution and as we've seen if they resign Cutler and he does perform in this offense we still need to sign 11 FA starters coming out of contract next year and fix some major holes on defense.
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It's always about Chicos.
LOL. I was a kid, carrying helmets, shoulder pads, throwing dirty clothes in the washer, etc....trying not to have to look at Rafael Septien's junk.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1987-01-24/sports/8701070066_1_finne-sexual-assault-mossy-cade
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There are high IQ, "system" QBs out there to be had in the draft (McCarron, Fales, etc), that will likely be available in the late 1st who could fit into Trestman's system. The Bears could also potentially add a higher pick in a Cutler trade.
What would the Titans give up for Cutler? A 1st and 3rd this season plus a 2nd next year? Possibly a young DE or CB thrown in place of a pick? Too much? Not enough?
Way, way too much. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round draft picks for an aging middle of the pack quarterback? No.
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Way, way too much. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round draft picks for an aging middle of the pack quarterback? No.
You really, really, hate Cutler.
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You really, really, hate Cutler.
Find me examples of trades in the NFL that sent a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick for 1 player...
You see very productive players who are still very near their prime traded for a 4th round draft pick. People don't give away 1st and 2nd round draft picks.
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What would the Titans give up for Cutler? A 1st and 3rd this season plus a 2nd next year? Possibly a young DE or CB thrown in place of a pick? Too much? Not enough?
A 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for a 30 year old QB who has been in the playoffs once in his career and has never reached a 90 QB rating? And who will want $15-$18 mil a year? I don't think so.
Might be worth a 2nd and 3rd, but it would have to be a sign and trade which adds more complexity to the deal.
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Gotta agree- -this is the worst defense I have ever seen in the NFL.
If you can believe it, the Saints were actually worse last year. Staggering to believe.
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Find me examples of trades in the NFL that sent a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick for 1 player...
You see very productive players who are still very near their prime traded for a 4th round draft pick. People don't give away 1st and 2nd round draft picks.
Um...Jay Cutler to the Bears. RGIII to Washington. There's 2 off the top of my head.
Give me an example of a productive QB near his prime who was traded for only a 4th Round pick.
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Um...Jay Cutler to the Bears. RGIII to Washington. There's 2 off the top of my head.
Give me an example of a productive QB near his prime who was traded for only a 4th Round pick.
Cutler was much younger, healthier and full of potential then, and RGIII? Seriously? He was the second pick in the draft. IIRC, the Packers got the 83rd overall pick for Favre, which may be a better comparison, even though he was older, and Jay Cutler is no Brett Favre. Carson Palmer netted Oakland a 6th round pick I believe, which is probably the best comparison considering all factors, age, contract, etc.
Anyway, bears aren't getting anything close to a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for Cutler, particularly with the QB class, and the draft in general, being as deep as it appears to be.
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There are high IQ, "system" QBs out there to be had in the draft (McCarron, Fales, etc), that will likely be available in the late 1st who could fit into Trestman's system. The Bears could also potentially add a higher pick in a Cutler trade.
What would the Titans give up for Cutler? A 1st and 3rd this season plus a 2nd next year? Possibly a young DE or CB thrown in place of a pick? Too much? Not enough?
What did I miss here, why would the Titans want Cutler when they have Jake Locker?
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What did I miss here, why would the Titans want Cutler when they have Jake Locker?
The Titans are reportedly turning down the option on the oft-injured Jake Locker and moving on.
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Cutler was much younger, healthier and full of potential then, and RGIII? Seriously? He was the second pick in the draft. IIRC, the Packers got the 83rd overall pick for Favre, which may be a better comparison, even though he was older, and Jay Cutler is no Brett Favre. Carson Palmer netted Oakland a 6th round pick I believe, which is probably the best comparison considering all factors, age, contract, etc.
Anyway, bears aren't getting anything close to a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for Cutler, particularly with the QB class, and the draft in general, being as deep as it appears to be.
Cutler's #1 fan asked for trade examples. I gave them.
Favre was 39-years-old when he got traded. Hardly a fair comparison.
Cincy got a 1st and 2nd for Palmer from Oakland. That's likely the closest comparison (Palmer was 32), although the Bengals had no leverage (Palmer was prepared to retire) and the Raiders were involved so take it for what it's worth.
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What did I miss here, why would the Titans want Cutler when they have Jake Locker?
This brings up another pretty good point, the doesn't appear to be a huge market for Cutler. You've got to be a team that feels like you're in pretty good shape everywhere else to trade for him, vs. just getting a guy in the draft. Texans, Titans, Rams, maybe the Browns might fit that description, but those teams will all be gpdrafting fairly high with a good crop of QBs sitting there. Chicago still looks like the likely option next year.
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This brings up another pretty good point, the doesn't appear to be a huge market for Cutler. You've got to be a team that feels like you're in pretty good shape everywhere else to trade for him, vs. just getting a guy in the draft. Texans, Titans, Rams, maybe the Browns might fit that description, but those teams will all be gpdrafting fairly high with a good crop of QBs sitting there. Chicago still looks like the likely option next year.
It's just a question of value.
A lot of teams would LOVE to have Jay Cutler.
The question is just cost ($) and cost (trade).
If the Bears can get a lot of value, then they should consider it. If they can only get a 4th rd, then they are probably better off keeping him.
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Cutler's #1 fan asked for trade examples. I gave them.
Favre was 39-years-old when he got traded. Hardly a fair comparison.
Cincy got a 1st and 2nd for Palmer from Oakland. That's likely the closest comparison (Palmer was 32), although the Bengals had no leverage (Palmer was prepared to retire) and the Raiders were involved so take it for what it's worth.
If the Bears can find an organization as brain dead as Oakland to overpay, trade him in a minute, draft a QB and spend the $ you save repairing an old, bad defense. If not, franchise him and at least be entertaining for a couple of years trying to out score people.
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What did I miss here, why would the Titans want Cutler when they have Jake Locker?
Everyone wants a franchise QB ;D
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Jay Cutler is a top 15 QB in the league. The chances of drafting a QB who ends up being that good are very slim. It would be a huge gamble to not resign him or to trade him away. The Bears have had a loooooooong history of horrible QBs up until Jay came to Chicago. The Bears aren't going to get a guy like Andrew Luck in the draft position they are. What are the chances of landing a guy like Russell Wilson in the 3rd round? Very slim.
Tony Romo was undrafted, Tom Brady in the 6th round. Obviously that's not something you can count on. Mike Glennon and Matt Schaub were drafted in the 3rd round (and I wouldn't say they are great NFL QBs, might not even have a job next year). All other current starting NFL QBs were drafted in the first two rounds, most of then in the top half of the 1st round.
So if you want to draft a QB to replace the starter, you do it in the first 2 rounds. But what are the odds?
I read these stats somewhere, I didn't compile them myself:
38 QBs have been drafted in the 1st round since 2000.
16/38 first round QBs since 2000 failed:
Chad Pennington, David Carr,Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, J.P. Losman, Jason Campbell, Vince Young, Matt LI have a toothachert, JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Tim Tebow
And honestly, it's 19, because Ponder, Weeden, and Gabbert are all on their way out. That puts it at an even 50%, 19/38.
11/15 second round QBs since 2000 failed. (excluding Brock Osweiler here because he is being "groomed" by Manning supposedly)
Jimmy Clausen, Pat White, Brian Brohm, Chad Henne, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens, Tarvaris Jackson, Quincy Carter, Marques Tuiasosopo
And of those 1st round picks that have "succeeded", Cutler is still a much better QB than most of them: Manuel, Tannehill, Weeden, Ponder, Locker, Gabbert, Palmer, Bradford, Alex Smith.
The overwhelming point is: you are taking a huge gamble to use your first or second round pick on a QB flyer that may never end up being as good as Cutler, and odds show that he won't be as good as Cutler. To not bring him back next year would be a mistake, IMO.
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Jay Cutler is a top 15 QB in the league. The chances of drafting a QB who ends up being that good are very slim. It would be a huge gamble to not resign him or to trade him away. The Bears have had a loooooooong history of horrible QBs up until Jay came to Chicago. The Bears aren't going to get a guy like Andrew Luck in the draft position they are. What are the chances of landing a guy like Russell Wilson in the 3rd round? Very slim.
The National Football Post's Jason Cole reports the Bears are likely to let free-agent-to-be Jay Cutler walk in the offseason unless he's willing to sign a team-friendly deal.
Cole is just the latest member of the media to report this, so it doesn't come as a shock. "(The Bears) believe in (coach Marc) Trestman after what they’ve seen from (backup quarterback Josh) McCown," a source told Cole. "Between his system and the two big receivers (Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffery), you have a system where a quarterback can flourish. I don’t know if McCown is going to be the starter (next season), but I think the team would be fine letting Cutler test the market and then go draft someone if he left." The Bears could re-sign McCown to a cheap, short-term deal and let a draft pick sit and learn.
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The Titans are reportedly turning down the option on the oft-injured Jake Locker and moving on.
So they are going to replace one younger oft-injured Jake Locker with an older oft-injured Jay Cutler?
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So they are going to replace one younger oft-injured Jake Locker with an older oft-injured Jay Cutler?
I'd hope you're trolling, seeing as this is only the second season that Cutler has missed significant time since he became a starter. And breaking your thumb isn't exactly an injury common with the injury prone.
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I'd hope you're trolling, seeing as this is only the second season that Cutler has missed significant time since he became a starter. And breaking your thumb isn't exactly an injury common with the injury prone.
But he's hurt right now, so that means he is injury prone.
That's how it works I guess. Oh and don't forget he missed the 2nd half of a game once.
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So they are going to replace one younger oft-injured Jake Locker with an older oft-injured Jay Cutler?
Hey, I'm just the messenger's messenger.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000293803/article/jay-cutler-could-be-targeted-by-tennessee-titans (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000293803/article/jay-cutler-could-be-targeted-by-tennessee-titans)
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I think the Bears front office has it right. If you can keep Jay for a team friendly contract you do. If not, see you later, Jay.
He hasn't proven to be worth the big bucks. Period. He will be 31 next year, and he isn't a 'franchise' QB.
As a Packer fan, I hope to hell that the Bears resign Cutler.
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http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/10119874/josh-mccown-chicago-bears-start-jay-cutler-brian-urlacher
Weird. Only Packers fans with green and gold blinders and pure hatred for Jay Cutler think so...
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http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/10119874/josh-mccown-chicago-bears-start-jay-cutler-brian-urlacher
Weird. Only Packers fans with green and gold blinders and pure hatred for Jay Cutler think so...
Weird. Urlacher's rationale is simply "hot hand." Far different from anyhing you've said
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Weird. Urlacher's rationale is simply "hot hand." Far different from anyhing you've said
Haha. The guy played with Jay Cutler for quite some time. He's not going to go out there and say Jay sucks. The fact that he's saying McCown should start speaks volumes. Loud and clear.
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Weird. Urlacher's rationale is simply "hot hand." Far different from anyhing you've said
Interesting that Josh's QB rating is over 20 points higher than Jay has ever had. Maybe that's the reason Brian is saying this. A strong arm means nothing when it comes to knowing how to play the position. Peyton has the weakest arm in the league.
Could you ever imagine if Flynn threw for 500 yards and 6 TDs this week that anyone whatsoever would say he should start when Aaron is healthy? Never happen. Ever. By anyone. Especially a former teammate.
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Urlacher is entitled to his opinion but he is far from unbiased when it comes to Cutler. The two aren't exactly buddies.
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I'd hope you're trolling, seeing as this is only the second season that Cutler has missed significant time since he became a starter. And breaking your thumb isn't exactly an injury common with the injury prone.
Just some food for thought, source is KKFL
Jay Cutler
http://www.kffl.com/player/13538/nfl/injury_history/jay-cutler (http://www.kffl.com/player/13538/nfl/injury_history/jay-cutler)
Jake Locker
http://www.kffl.com/player/22275/nfl/injury_history/jake-locker (http://www.kffl.com/player/22275/nfl/injury_history/jake-locker)
While perhaps over his entire career, Cutler has been durable, the trend over the last 3 years isn't really any different than Locker's and Cutler's age starts to factor into that, plus he's had two concussions. He's certainly at risk for more.
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I think the Bears front office has it right. If you can keep Jay for a team friendly contract you do. If not, see you later, Jay.
He hasn't proven to be worth the big bucks. Period. He will be 31 next year, and he isn't a 'franchise' QB.
As a Packer fan, I hope to hell that the Bears resign Cutler.
And as a Bears fan I hope he resigns too. With the Packers secondary Jeffery and Marshall would torch them for 150 yards each. Cant wait until week 17 when Rodgers, Cutler, Briggs and Tillman are back and there are no more excuses.
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Haha. The guy played with Jay Cutler for quite some time. He's not going to go out there and say Jay sucks. The fact that he's saying McCown should start speaks volumes. Loud and clear.
I want McCown to keep playing, but Urlacher and Jay were never close.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000296868/article/brian-urlacher-bears-should-start-josh-mccown-not-jay-cutler (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000296868/article/brian-urlacher-bears-should-start-josh-mccown-not-jay-cutler)
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No one asked for it, but here's my take on the Cutler-McCown "controversy."
Jay Cutler is a significantly better and more talented QB than Josh McCown. Anyone arguing otherwise, quite frankly, is a football idiot. The Bears ceiling is higher with Cutler under center and he can make throws that McCown simply cannot make (McCown has said so himself). That said, McCown is very good in the Trestman offense and Cutler could learn a few things from the way it is being run conservatively by McCown. Namely, take the check-downs, have faith in WRs other than Marshall (particularly Jeffery - he's the real deal) and throw the ball away when it's not there. Nothing earth-shattering, I know. While McCown hasn't been afraid to take shots downfield, part of the reason those plays have been there is because the repeated intermediate passes get the safeties to creep up and become vulnerable deep as the game wears on. Cutler has the ability to do all of the things that McCown has been doing, but he can do them better. It's a matter of whether or not he does them that will dictate how far this team can go (along with the run D getting to some level of borderline respectability).
A couple other things worth noting...
- Prior to picking apart a historically bad defense, McCown lost two games to last-place teams with lower-tier defenses, while putting up just 21 and 20 points.
- Trestman doesn't completely trust McCown. He went conservative in regulation and in OT against Minnesota and it cost them the game, he took the ball out of McCown's hands on the biggest play of the Detroit game, etc. Trestman trusts McCown to make the right play, but he doesn't necessarily trust him to make the big play.
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And as a Bears fan I hope he resigns too. With the Packers secondary Jeffery and Marshall would torch them for 150 yards each. Cant wait until week 17 when Rodgers, Cutler, Briggs and Tillman are back and there are no more excuses.
Good chance, one or both will be out of playoff contention by then, so I wouldn't get too excited.
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No one asked for it, but here's my take on the Cutler-McCown "controversy."
Jay Cutler is a significantly better and more talented QB than Josh McCown. Anyone arguing otherwise, quite frankly, is a football idiot. The Bears ceiling is higher with Cutler under center and he can make throws that McCown simply cannot make (McCown has said so himself). That said, McCown is very good in the Trestman offense and Cutler could learn a few things from the way it is being run conservatively by McCown. Namely, take the check-downs, have faith in WRs other than Marshall (particularly Jeffery - he's the real deal) and throw the ball away when it's not there. Nothing earth-shattering, I know. While McCown hasn't been afraid to take shots downfield, part of the reason those plays have been there is because the repeated intermediate passes get the safeties to creep up and become vulnerable deep as the game wears on. Cutler has the ability to do all of the things that McCown has been doing, but he can do them better. It's a matter of whether or not he does them that will dictate how far this team can go (along with the run D getting to some level of borderline respectability).
Pretty much agree, but you still leave out the one big thing.
Cutler will also make the big turnovers - regularly.
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Pretty much agree, but you still leave out the one big thing.
Cutler will also make the big turnovers - regularly.
Not necessarily. He didn't make "the big turnover" in 7 of the 8 games he played this season.
Avoiding that big TO is exactly why I wrote that Cutler could learn from McCown in terms of running the offense more conservatively and his doing so will dictate how far this team can go.
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Jay Cutler is a significantly better and more talented QB than Josh McCown. Anyone arguing otherwise, quite frankly, is a football idiot.
MM = Dan Berstein?
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MM = Dan Berstein?
Nah. MM not a big enough pud whack. Clearly he's a fan though.
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Nah. MM not a big enough pud whack. Clearly he's a fan though.
I appreciate that, Clark.
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No one asked for it, but here's my take on the Cutler-McCown "controversy."
Jay Cutler is a significantly better and more talented QB than Josh McCown. Anyone arguing otherwise, quite frankly, is a football idiot. The Bears ceiling is higher with Cutler under center and he can make throws that McCown simply cannot make (McCown has said so himself). That said, McCown is very good in the Trestman offense and Cutler could learn a few things from the way it is being run conservatively by McCown. Namely, take the check-downs, have faith in WRs other than Marshall (particularly Jeffery - he's the real deal) and throw the ball away when it's not there. Nothing earth-shattering, I know. While McCown hasn't been afraid to take shots downfield, part of the reason those plays have been there is because the repeated intermediate passes get the safeties to creep up and become vulnerable deep as the game wears on. Cutler has the ability to do all of the things that McCown has been doing, but he can do them better. It's a matter of whether or not he does them that will dictate how far this team can go (along with the run D getting to some level of borderline respectability).
A couple other things worth noting...
- Prior to picking apart a historically bad defense, McCown lost two games to last-place teams with lower-tier defenses, while putting up just 21 and 20 points.
- Trestman doesn't completely trust McCown. He went conservative in regulation and in OT against Minnesota and it cost them the game, he took the ball out of McCown's hands on the biggest play of the Detroit game, etc. Trestman trusts McCown to make the right play, but he doesn't necessarily trust him to make the big play.
Stache, I agree that Cutler is much more talented than McCown. If they were both pitchers, Cutler would be the one with better "stuff". That said, they have each played about the same number of snaps this year and McCown has been superior by every measurable. In fact, by the numbers anyway, McCown is having a better year than Cutler has ever had. Again, in baseball parlance Cutler may be a #2 starter and McCown a back of the rotation guy - but not this year.
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Stache, I agree that Cutler is much more talented than McCown. If they were both pitchers, Cutler would be the one with better "stuff". That said, they have each played about the same number of snaps this year and McCown has been superior by every measurable. In fact, by the numbers anyway, McCown is having a better year than Cutler has ever had. Again, in baseball parlance Cutler may be a #2 starter and McCown a back of the rotation guy - but not this year.
That's a fair analogy. However, much like pitchers, we should expect there to be regression to the mean at some point. Cutler's numbers this season are very similar to his career numbers, but McCown's are significantly better than in his first 51 NFL games. Shouldn't it be expected that McCown will eventually return to playing like a career back-up with a QB rating in the low 70s? In a tight playoff race, it's better to pull him one game too early as opposed to one game too late.
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That's a fair analogy. However, much like pitchers, we should expect there to be regression to the mean at some point. Cutler's numbers this season are very similar to his career numbers, but McCown's are significantly better than in his first 51 NFL games. Shouldn't it be expected that McCown will eventually return to playing like a career back-up with a QB rating in the low 70s? In a tight playoff race, it's better to pull him one game too early as opposed to one game too late.
Evidence would suggest a regression to the mean - I would agree that's the most likely scenario. There's a chance, though, that a cerebral though physically challenged back up has found the perfect combination of coaching, system and surrounding talent to make him a different player. Since he's on a roll and Jay will surely be a little rusty, I'm not sure who plays the rest of this season is a no brainer. One thing is for sure - if they don't win out Trestman will be second guessed by fans and media alike no matter what he decides. At least you're putting your opinion out there before this Sunday.
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Cutler officially named starter for Sunday against Cleveland.
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Good to see Jay is back. Let me put it this way. If McCown was really that god he wouldnt be a backup that the bears signed only in emergency a few years ago while he was still coaching a high school football team.
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or if Curt Warner was any good he wouldn't have been relegated to the Arena league after being in training camp with the Packers? ;D
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If Cutler struggles in the first half, it'll be quite interesting to see what Trestman does. This Browns game will be fascinating to watch, it'll say a lot about where this is all heading.
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or if Curt Warner was any good he wouldn't have been relegated to the Arena league after being in training camp with the Packers? ;D
Except Warner was 27 when he signed with the Rams. Mccown is 34. Look I am extremely happy for what McCown has provided. Hes just no Jay Cutler.
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If Cutler struggles in the first half, it'll be quite interesting to see what Trestman does. This Browns game will be fascinating to watch, it'll say a lot about where this is all heading.
Even as a Cutler hater, I think Trestman is making the right move. These next 3 games are each basically playoff games and he should get a good read on Jay's future in Chi. Long-term, the coach isn't really taking any risk by starting Cutler other than pissing off some fans if the Bears lose Sunday.
And as a Packer fan, if we win these next 2 games, I'd rather face Cutler than McCown in a couple weeks.
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And as a Packer fan, if we win these next 2 games, I'd rather face Cutler than McCown in a couple weeks.
Thats a mistake in judgement.
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Thats a mistake in judgement.
You couldn't be more wrong. Jay Cutler is 1-7 in his career starting against the Packers. He has completed 53% of his passes, averages 6.4 yards per completion, and has 8 touchdowns to 17 interceptions against the Packers. Like Chuck Woodson said, "It's just Jay being Jay. Jay will throw us the ball." With the Packers defense needing to create turnovers to be in any way, shape, or form successful, a quarterback like Jay is exactly what the Packers hope to play. They'll give up a big play or two if it means they'll also create a couple of big plays. Jay is awful against the Packers, and McCown is not.
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You couldn't be more wrong. Jay Cutler is 1-7 in his career starting against the Packers. He has completed 53% of his passes, averages 6.4 yards per completion, and has 8 touchdowns to 17 interceptions against the Packers. Like Chuck Woodson said, "It's just Jay being Jay. Jay will throw us the ball." With the Packers defense needing to create turnovers to be in any way, shape, or form successful, a quarterback like Jay is exactly what the Packers hope to play. They'll give up a big play or two if it means they'll also create a couple of big plays. Jay is awful against the Packers, and McCown is not.
Oh. I forgot everything - team makeup, coaching, schemes, etc - has been the exact same every time the Bears played the Packers while Cutler was there. It's not like this offense is better in any way to those previous iterations...
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Oh. I forgot everything - team makeup, coaching, schemes, etc - has been the exact same every time the Bears played the Packers while Cutler was there. It's not like this offense is better in any way to those previous iterations...
The dude is 1-7 against the Packers. It's fairly plain to see.
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The dude is 1-7 against the Packers. It's fairly plain to see.
And not once has he played them with the Trestman/Kromer system. Tice/Martz/Turner werent exactly good...
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Been reading the thread all season... Fun stuff.
The Packer fans hatred for Cutler has created some delusional opinions as this McCown-Cutler situation has progressed. Cutler is a much better qb than he is getting credit for. Imo, this is his first season where the Bears have rhythm on offense and also continuity/protection with the o-line.
Packers fans have been spoiled with great healthy qb's like Favre and Rodgers, and have absolutely no clue how hard it is to find a solid qb in the NFL. They've hit two homeruns, but that is the rarity in the NFL, not the rule... there are too many unknowns and variables with draft picks to know a sure thing. The Favre-Arod experience makes Packer fans opinions on this matter completely irrelevant. It makes their conclusions on Cutler look comical.
Whether it's the right move to sign Cutler will all be played out in terms of how much value they can get. It's far from a no-brainer and these last few weeks should give the Bears a lot more clarity on Jay's future.
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You couldn't be more wrong. Jay Cutler is 1-7 in his career starting against the Packers. He has completed 53% of his passes, averages 6.4 yards per completion, and has 8 touchdowns to 17 interceptions against the Packers. Like Chuck Woodson said, "It's just Jay being Jay. Jay will throw us the ball." With the Packers defense needing to create turnovers to be in any way, shape, or form successful, a quarterback like Jay is exactly what the Packers hope to play. They'll give up a big play or two if it means they'll also create a couple of big plays. Jay is awful against the Packers, and McCown is not.
First of all, Cutler averages 11 yards per completion against GB and has 9 TD, 16 INTs and a completion percentage of 55.3%. Not impressive numbers by any means, but better than what you wrote. Might want to check your sources ;)
Prior to this season, McCown was winless against GB with twice as many INTs as TDs, and a QB Rating of 63.3 (basically the same as Cutler's rating vs GB). How in the world did he ever win a game in Green Bay considering he had bad career numbers against that team? That's impossible!
By the way, Josh McCown has a career QB Rating of 41.8 against Cleveland, compared to Cutler's 90.7. That's probably why Trestman is going with Cutler this week ::)
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What I find funny is that the discussion relative to bringing Cutler back has turned into a Culter vs. McCown discussion for so many. It isn't about that. This year doesn't matter, and the Bears (I wold hope), know that. sure maybe they can still win the division and make the playoffs, only to get their brains beat in when they get there. Is McCown a long-term fit at QB? Not a chance. Is Cultler? That's the question that is so difficult to answer, based on him, the money, timing, rest of the team needs, etc. that's also why they want him out there as much as possible now. mcCown has no part of the Bears future. cutler might, but they need to see him play to figure it out.
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McCown is 34. That should end the discussion on who the long-term option should be going forward. If anything, McCown is a closer comparison to the great Matt Cassel. A guy who has been the beneficiary of good system with solid weapons surrounding him.
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Packer fan here.
Not sure what reason Packer fans have to hate Jay Cutler. He is the gift that keeps on giving.
Bears need to figure out what they have. Play Cutler. If he plays well in Trestman's system, and they can keep him for what they determine is a fair value, keep him. But maybe a system quarterback is what they need.
The Bears are old, and need serious retooling. Even if they make the playoffs this year, they are in for a few craptacular years. Need to factor that in when determining what to do. If they can speed up the rebuilding process by trading Cutler for decent draft picks, do it.
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Packer fan here.
Not sure what reason Packer fans have to hate Jay Cutler. He is the gift that keeps on giving.
Bears need to figure out what they have. Play Cutler. If he plays well in Trestman's system, and they can keep him for what they determine is a fair value, keep him. But maybe a system quarterback is what they need.
The Bears are old, and need serious retooling. Even if they make the playoffs this year, they are in for a few craptacular years. Need to factor that in when determining what to do. If they can speed up the rebuilding process by trading Cutler for decent draft picks, do it.
Fans often misuse the term "system QB." I assume people think of Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer or some other "game manager" type of QB but, technically speaking, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are system QBs. So are Drew Brees and Colin Kaepernick and Aaron Rodgers. Honestly, just about every successful QB is a "system QB" because they run an offense that plays to their strengths. Trestman has a system that's very QB-friendly so I assume you mean that the offense doesn't need a "star" QB to be successful.
The Bears' defense is old and needs retooling. The offense is championship caliber. Marshall and Jeffery are the best WR combo in the league. Forte is a top 5 RB and Bennett is in the top tier of TEs. The o-line is much improved but could probably use an upgrade at RT and Garza is serviceable but on his last legs at C. Offensively, the team is just about there. Defensively, the team has no pass rush, the loss of Melton, Briggs and Williams killed them against the run and the safeties are brutal. If they could upgrade to even a middle-of-the-pack D, the Bears would be legit SB contenders.
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so what is the consensus among the Bears fans here?
reading these posts it looks like Cutler is hands down better than McCown but on the other hand Cutler's next 3 games are a testdrive to the Bears front office to see if he really is thee guy ?-(
so Cutler is the man this year but Bears fans are uncomfortable about him as the long term solution?
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so what is the consensus among the Bears fans here?
reading these posts it looks like Cutler is hands down better than McCown but on the other hand Cutler's next 3 games are a testdrive to the Bears front office to see if he really is thee guy ?-(
so Cutler is the man this year but Bears fans are uncomfortable about him as the long term solution?
When you're investing 25-30% of your cap space to one player, there's reason to be uncomfortable about him regardless of his name. As a Packers fan, Cutler is incredibly more talented than McCown, you're a meathead if you think otherwise.
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so Cutler is the man this year but Bears fans are uncomfortable about him as the long term solution?
All has to do with payroll. If Bears D wasn't so banged up and crappy in certain spots, I think the Bears office wouldnt hesitate to sign/franchise him.
You are spot on with the rest of it though.
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I get it. Cutler is talented. He is also 31 years old, playing behind a questionable line, and undoubtedly expensive. The Bears would crazy to resign him. While I understand QBs are not easy to find, what is the point in wasting a ton of cap space on a QB if the rest of the team is questionable? Its like the Titans throwing a whole pile of money at Chris Johnson. He had already peaked, and they should have cut bait or traded him while he was valuable. I understand that QBs are more valuable than RBs, but if I was the GM of the Bears, I'd be making inquiries about the availability of RG3... He might be available for a song pretty soon... assuming the Shannahans are still going to be employed in Washington.
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I get it. Cutler is talented. He is also 31 years old, playing behind a questionable line, and undoubtedly expensive. The Bears would crazy to resign him. While I understand QBs are not easy to find, what is the point in wasting a ton of cap space on a QB if the rest of the team is questionable? Its like the Titans throwing a whole pile of money at Chris Johnson. He had already peaked, and they should have cut bait or traded him while he was valuable. I understand that QBs are more valuable than RBs, but if I was the GM of the Bears, I'd be making inquiries about the availability of RG3... He might be available for a song pretty soon... assuming the Shannahans are still going to be employed in Washington.
As I pointed out in a previous post, the rest of the team is NOT questionable.
RG3 isn't going anywhere. If anything, Kirk Cousins may be available after the season.
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The Packer fans hatred for Cutler has created some delusional opinions as this McCown-Cutler situation has progressed. Cutler is a much better qb than he is getting credit for. Imo, this is his first season where the Bears have rhythm on offense and also continuity/protection with the o-line.
He's 2 playoff games in 8 years good!! Woo- hoo.
Rodgers makes the Packers good. Manning made Indy and now makes Denver good. JC could never come even close to doing the same.
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He's 2 playoff games in 8 years good!! Woo- hoo.
Rodgers makes the Packers good. Manning made Indy and now makes Denver good. JC could never come even close to doing the same.
It's all relative, and playoff success is dependent on many factors. As I said above, having a different OC every year and little pass protection didn't help his case. He's finished 4 seasons with the Bears.
Also, it appears you are giving all credit to Manning and Rodgers for their teams success... not Reggie Wayne, Indy's defense, or Dungy's coaching? No credit to the Packers depth in 2010 or their o-line?
Lastly, so Cutler needs to be in the top elite tier of Manning and Rodgers in order to be considered good and resignable?
Packers fans can be insufferable.
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One last thing sometimes numbers lie. There are so many times where McCown has thrown to the the ball right to the defense and they just dropped the ball. I can think of 3 times that happened against the Cowboys while Cutler a bunch of his interceptions hit his receivers right in the chest and they took a funny bounce into the defenders hands. McCown had a wonderful run for the Bears but theres no way he keeps up that production.
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It's all relative, and playoff success is dependent on many factors. As I said above, having a different OC every year and little pass protection didn't help his case. He's finished 4 seasons with the Bears.
Also, it appears you are giving all credit to Manning and Rodgers for their teams success... not Reggie Wayne, Indy's defense, or Dungy's coaching? No credit to the Packers depth in 2010 or their o-line?
Lastly, so Cutler needs to be in the top elite tier of Manning and Rodgers in order to be considered good and resignable?
Packers fans can be insufferable.
Bears fans create terrible arguments. Do you know what a strawman argument is? Clearly you don't.
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One last thing sometimes numbers lie. There are so many times where McCown has thrown to the the ball right to the defense and they just dropped the ball. I can think of 3 times that happened against the Cowboys while Cutler a bunch of his interceptions hit his receivers right in the chest and they took a funny bounce into the defenders hands. McCown had a wonderful run for the Bears but theres no way he keeps up that production.
As much as I loved the undersized (now-broken) Johnny Knox, he'd play volleyball and tip it to the defense... Hester's poor route-running alone cost a handful of picks. Can't remember the exact stat, but between the two of them the Bears had the most unforced INT's in the NFL for a couple seasons. It's pretty crazy to think how much it's changed now by having both Marshall and the maturing Alshon.
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Bears fans create terrible arguments. Do you know what a strawman argument is? Clearly you don't.
They were easily-inferred conclusions based off what was said.
Also I love the Packers-Bears rivalry... my opinions are from living in Wisc for a decade and having many Packer-fan friends for the last 15 years. I know how unlikeable Cutler seems for anyone who is not a Bears fan, but I think it's misguided to indict him as a qb.
Do I know if it's worth it sign Cutler with all these defensive problems? I have no idea yet, but I'm sure it'll all play out. It's ignorant define him as an interception-throwing dime-a-dozen qb who is not worth investing with. If the Bears can somehow negotiate a favorable contract, the Bears would be dumb not to sign him. Imo, there are too many other suitors for the Bears to get it done though.
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Bears fans create terrible arguments. Do you know what a strawman argument is? Clearly you don't.
Both Packers and Bears fans are football fans. That makes them both insufferable and illogical. If your sentence takes the structure "____ fans are _____", it's probably going to have a pretty bad conclusion.
Maybe Jacksonville fans are exempt from this. They are just drunk and/or sad.
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Both Packers and Bears fans are football fans. That makes them both insufferable and illogical. If your sentence takes the structure "____ fans are _____", it's probably going to have a pretty bad conclusion.
Maybe Jacksonville fans are exempt from this. They are just drunk and/or sad.
All 2 of them!
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What's the scoop on Rodgers for Dallas...I assume he is playing? I'm in my fantasy super bowl unless Marshall scores like 4 TD's tonight, and I've been riding Rodgers on the pine the last 4 weeks. Any skinny?
Start your other guy.
Grow a pair Rodgers (and/or doctor/McCarthy/front office).
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Start your other guy.
Grow a pair Rodgers (and/or doctor/McCarthy/front office).
Rodgers has nothing to say about the decision. Broken bones are different from strains, pulls, etc. It has nothing to do with pain. A simple density scan determines if he can play or not. It is not Rodger's decision. It is not McCarthy's decision. The doctor decides - no one else.
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As much as I loved the undersized (now-broken) Johnny Knox, he'd play volleyball and tip it to the defense... Hester's poor route-running alone cost a handful of picks. Can't remember the exact stat, but between the two of them the Bears had the most unforced INT's in the NFL for a couple seasons. It's pretty crazy to think how much it's changed now by having both Marshall and the maturing Alshon.
Sounds good until you look at Brady's receivers the last couple years. Julian Edelman is his #1 guy this year. There is no #2 or #3. Whoever gets put in those spots ends up getting benched.
Cutler is what he is - a little bit above average - near the top of the middle tier of QBs in the league. Top 10 - 15 and in a QB starved league that still translates to $15 mil a year. With all of their other needs (entire Defense with Tillman and Jennings FA's and Peppers no longer worth the big money) can they pay that much for a guy who isn't a difference maker at QB?
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Sounds good until you look at Brady's receivers the last couple years. Julian Edelman is his #1 guy this year. There is no #2 or #3. Whoever gets put in those spots ends up getting benched.
I don't think you can say "last couple years" in regards to Brady. He had welker the last couple years. And brink and hernandez. When it was just Edelman, and the other crap receivers, you really saw how much different it was - Brady getting mad and yelling at everyone not to mention throwing incompletions and picks.
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Rodgers has nothing to say about the decision. Broken bones are different from strains, pulls, etc. It has nothing to do with pain. A simple density scan determines if he can play or not. It is not Rodger's decision. It is not McCarthy's decision. The doctor decides - no one else.
They didn't do a scan today when making the decision. It was an odd press conference with MCarthy. When asked if the decision was made due to medical concerns, ie the DR didn't clear him, mike jumped in the guy. "Don't get in a word battle with me". Basically said Rodgers isn't playing and that's it. Not really sure who's call it was to sit him.
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They didn't do a scan today when making the decision. It was an odd press conference with MCarthy. When asked if the decision was made due to medical concerns, ie the DR didn't clear him, mike jumped in the guy. "Don't get in a word battle with me". Basically said Rodgers isn't playing and that's it. Not really sure who's call it was to sit him.
Agreed. I doubt it's Rodgers's, but I also doubt it's just the doctor's.
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They didn't do a scan today when making the decision.
He had a scan yesterday.
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Maybe Jacksonville fans are exempt from this. They are just drunk and/or sad.
Watch it now, that's the hottest team in the AFC you are talking about.
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Start your other guy.
Grow a pair Rodgers (and/or doctor/McCarthy/front office).
Yeah, I did. Problem is I have a bunch of Packers receivers, too. Grrr.
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He had a scan yesterday.
Then why wasn't he ruled out on the 12th?
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Agreed. I doubt it's Rodgers's, but I also doubt it's just the doctor's.
So what is your theory? That Rodgers could push the issue but he didn't really want to?
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Then why wasn't he ruled out on the 12th?
You really don't know? When was the Cowboys last practice? This stuff is not complicated.
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Agreed. I doubt it's Rodgers's, but I also doubt it's just the doctor's.
He had a scan Thursday, and was not cleared to play.
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He had a scan Thursday, and was not cleared to play.
...then he practices Friday and is ruled out the same day, sounds like he was still feeling pain.
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...then he practices Friday and is ruled out the same day, sounds like he was still feeling pain.
Not sure what about a scan that didn't come back clean is hard to understand. Flynn took the first team reps, and Rodgers did nothing but some throwing on Friday.
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Same old Jay
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Same old Jay
How so? He clearly can't follow through off the ankle.
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Same old Jay
Loves to turn the ball over. I would take a much physically less gifted quarterback who values the football over Jay. Turnovers are death in the NFL, and nobody turns it over better than Jay Cutler.
McCown >>> Cutler
And yes I realize Cutler's physical tools >>> McCown's physical tools.
Please resign him. And please play him against the Pack.
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How so? He clearly can't follow through off the ankle.
Because he isn't running the system. He i playing hurt, and hurting his team. Making bad throws and bad decisions.
I'm not sure how this is arguable.
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Because he isn't running the system. He i playing hurt, and hurting his team. Making bad throws and bad decisions.
I'm not sure how this is arguable.
It's completely arguable. If the coaching staff decided to play him hurt. If he's not 100%, hard to argue "same 'ol".
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Because he isn't running the system. He i playing hurt, and hurting his team. Making bad throws and bad decisions.
I'm not sure how this is arguable.
So the "same old jay" is one who is physically unable to make throws?
I'll be the first one to say Cutler shouldn't be playing today. And I want to see mccown soon. But jay isn't making the mental mistakes today - that would be "same old jay"
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Loves to turn the ball over. I would take a much physically less gifted quarterback who values the football over Jay. Turnovers are death in the NFL, and nobody turns it over better than Jay Cutler.
McCown >>> Cutler
And yes I realize Cutler's physical tools >>> McCown's physical tools.
Please resign him. And please play him against the Pack.
Just stop. Youre not a Bears fan and youre just being obnoxious. I dont comment on Packers personel decisions.
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Just stop. Youre not a Bears fan and youre just being obnoxious. I dont comment on Packers personel decisions.
How dare someone comment on the Bears in a thread entitled "2013 NFC North/NFL Thread."
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Loves to turn the ball over. I would take a much physically less gifted quarterback who values the football over Jay. Turnovers are death in the NFL, and nobody turns it over better than Jay Cutler.
McCown >>> Cutler
And yes I realize Cutler's physical tools >>> McCown's physical tools.
Please resign him. And please play him against the Pack.
I'm assuming you are not watching the game. Albeit he's rusty (not completely healthy?), but both the INT's were tipped off Marshall's fingers. The second pass was poor as it sailed on him with the wind. This is too small of a sample size yet.
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Shocked how bad Eagles have been today, tons to play for.
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Shocked how bad Eagles have been today, tons to play for.
Matt Cassell having a career day today. He is absolutely picking the Eagles apart.
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You going to blame that fumble on Cutler too?
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Josh Gordon has been invisible in this one...so far. That's a little scary for the Bears.
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You going to blame that fumble on Cutler too?
Yeah you mad.
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Eagles are getting their lunch eaten by Cassell and the Vikes.
Wonder if the Vikes d can hold up.
Vikes missing top two running backs and most of their starting secondary.
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Same old jay
https://twitter.com/Rich_Campbell/status/412325132003078147
(see, I can make short sighted comments too)
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Same old jay
https://twitter.com/Rich_Campbell/status/412325132003078147
(see, I can make short sighted comments too)
So you're OK with 3 touchdowns to 2 interceptions? I guess with Jay Cutler as your quarterback you have to be, but you aren't going to play the Browns 16 games a year. The only way "Same old Jay" was short sighted was that Jay actually improved on his career touchdown to turnover ratio by going for 3 touchdowns with 2 interceptions. That's not good.
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Interesting game. Cutler provided ammo for both anti-Cutler people and pro-Cutler people. He had 2 picks and a few other poorly thrown balls, but was outstanding on 3rd down and got the win. He forced passes that McCown wouldn't have, but led a comeback which McCown hadn't done.
A win for the Bears and for sports talk radio!
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See my post above. The INT's came off two Marshall's tips and at the start when Cutler showed some rust. If Rodgers plays again this season, I'd be shocked if he doesn't have rust in the first half... especially if it's a windy 10 degree road game.
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Next week at Philly should be pretty telling for Cutler. I imagine Trestman/Cutler learned quite a bit today about any leaks Jay may have in his game in regard to the past injuries. That sick grab by Alshon should build more confidence/chemistry with Cutler like he has with Marshall.
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So you're OK with 3 touchdowns to 2 interceptions? I guess with Jay Cutler as your quarterback you have to be, but you aren't going to play the Browns 16 games a year. The only way "Same old Jay" was short sighted was that Jay actually improved on his career touchdown to turnover ratio by going for 3 touchdowns with 2 interceptions. That's not good.
I know hou want to vilify Cutler, but by no means was he terrible today, not close. He wasn't 100%, had one ball clearly tipped for a pick. I'm not sure why you feel the need to call him out, they even won.
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McCarthy is not good at all. Usually when a team goes into a game without theirs starting quarterback the head coach adjusts his game plans to get the backup quarterback some easy completions early and get comfortable. Usually it's a quick drop back and it opens up some running lanes for the running back as well. Instead Mike decides to do some deep drops while Dallas continues to blitz and get in Flynn's face and Flynn fails to get the ball out. I get that the offensive line needs to be able to protect Flynn better, but come on. It's not hard to figure out the Cowboys are going to be coming with heat, why are we dropping Flynn back 10 yards deep on first down? Then inevitably 2nd down is a screen or draw because it's really the only option and the defense knows that so it's 3rd and 25 and we just get 5 yards of room for the punter to get a punt off. It's unbelievable. How do you not come in with something different by this point after going 1-4-1 over the last 6 weeks?
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I know hou want to vilify Cutler, but by no means was he terrible today, not close. He wasn't 100%, had one ball clearly tipped for a pick. I'm not sure why you feel the need to call him out, they even won.
Because hes a bitter Packer fan thats upset they dont have a good backup.
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Because hes a bitter Packer fan thats upset they dont have a good backup.
Bitter about what? I accepted that the Packers were going to miss the Playoffs after the Lions game. The fact that the Lions and Bears kept the Packers in the Playoff hunt this long is amazing to me. It's college basketball season for me. I have nothing to be bitter about. 2 Super Bowls and a lifetime of Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers is much better than any Bears fan (or anyone other than the Patriots really) can say in my quarter of a century on this planet.
Let me ask you this, do you really think Jay Cutler is a good quarterback in the NFL? I'm not asking if he's a physically gifted quarterback. I'm asking if he's a good NFL quarterback. Before you answer that, consider the fact that he has nearly 20 more turnovers than he has touchdowns in his career. Also keep in mind he has made the Playoffs a total of 1 time in his career. Are those credentials of a good NFL quarterback? If so, then maybe I am truly just bitter...
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McCarthy is not good at all. Usually when a team goes into a game without theirs starting quarterback the head coach adjusts his game plans to get the backup quarterback some easy completions early and get comfortable. Usually it's a quick drop back and it opens up some running lanes for the running back as well. Instead Mike decides to do some deep drops while Dallas continues to blitz and get in Flynn's face and Flynn fails to get the ball out. I get that the offensive line needs to be able to protect Flynn better, but come on. It's not hard to figure out the Cowboys are going to be coming with heat, why are we dropping Flynn back 10 yards deep on first down? Then inevitably 2nd down is a screen or draw because it's really the only option and the defense knows that so it's 3rd and 25 and we just get 5 yards of room for the punter to get a punt off. It's unbelievable. How do you not come in with something different by this point after going 1-4-1 over the last 6 weeks?
Don't worry, we have Garrett. Cowboys running all over the Packers. Intercept the ball, up 16-3 and what do the Cowboys do....3 straight passes, including a sack. That's the brilliance of our staff.
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McCarthy is not good at all. Usually when a team goes into a game without theirs starting quarterback the head coach adjusts his game plans to get the backup quarterback some easy completions early and get comfortable. Usually it's a quick drop back and it opens up some running lanes for the running back as well. Instead Mike decides to do some deep drops while Dallas continues to blitz and get in Flynn's face and Flynn fails to get the ball out. I get that the offensive line needs to be able to protect Flynn better, but come on. It's not hard to figure out the Cowboys are going to be coming with heat, why are we dropping Flynn back 10 yards deep on first down? Then inevitably 2nd down is a screen or draw because it's really the only option and the defense knows that so it's 3rd and 25 and we just get 5 yards of room for the punter to get a punt off. It's unbelievable. How do you not come in with something different by this point after going 1-4-1 over the last 6 weeks?
Because the Cowboys are pressing the receivers making the short game very difficult. They are going deep because thats what the defense is giving them.
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Don't worry, we have Garrett. Cowboys running all over the Packers. Intercept the ball, up 16-3 and what do the Cowboys do....3 straight passes, including a sack. That's the brilliance of our staff.
Very true. At one point Murray had 7 rushes for 77 yards and they threw the ball 7 straight times and had to punt. But at least they're getting 7 plays in before punting, whereas the Packers may pick up a first down on their first play of the drive, but then it's 3 and out from there at best.
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Yes, I truly think Cutler is a good NFL quarterback. For every 1 Cutler you have Gabbert, Quinn, Orton, Tebow, Krenzel, Campbell etc. Finding a guy like Cutler is rare.
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Very true. At one point Murray had 7 rushes for 77 yards and they threw the ball 7 straight times and had to punt. But at least they're getting 7 plays in before punting, whereas the Packers may pick up a first down on their first play of the drive, but then it's 3 and out from there at best.
I've seen the Cowboys this year only run it 9 times the entire game....3 times in a half. It is mindboggling to me, absolutely mindboggling.
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So what exactly would Capers have to do to get fired?
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Bitter about what? I accepted that the Packers were going to miss the Playoffs after the Lions game. The fact that the Lions and Bears kept the Packers in the Playoff hunt this long is amazing to me. It's college basketball season for me. I have nothing to be bitter about. 2 Super Bowls and a lifetime of Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers is much better than any Bears fan (or anyone other than the Patriots really) can say in my quarter of a century on this planet.
Let me ask you this, do you really think Jay Cutler is a good quarterback in the NFL? I'm not asking if he's a physically gifted quarterback. I'm asking if he's a good NFL quarterback. Before you answer that, consider the fact that he has nearly 20 more turnovers than he has touchdowns in his career. Also keep in mind he has made the Playoffs a total of 1 time in his career. Are those credentials of a good NFL quarterback? If so, then maybe I am truly just bitter...
After a rant like that...you sound a little bitter ;)
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After a rant like that...you sound a little bitter ;)
If I was making up facts to make Cutler look bad then maybe you'd have a point. But has Cutler made the Playoffs more than once in his career? Does Cutler have more turnovers than touchdowns in his career?
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Capers - a record setting 1st half. And this is what he does with a healthy defense. W O W !!
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Look out packers... Vikes are comin!!! SKOL Vikings!
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I've seen the Cowboys this year only run it 9 times the entire game....3 times in a half. It is mindboggling to me, absolutely mindboggling.
And it's happening again.
I don't think the Packers are going to win this, but Garrett really continues to make mindboggling decisions by continuing to pass the ball when the Packers can't stop anyone on the ground.
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Rams didn't move this game to Busch, did they?
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And it's happening again.
I don't think the Packers are going to win this, but Garrett really continues to make mindboggling decisions by continuing to pass the ball when the Packers can't stop anyone on the ground.
Yup, it's what they do. Snatch defeat from jaws of victory. The intellect of the players and staff of the Cowboys is remarkably low.
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Yes, I truly think Cutler is a good NFL quarterback. For every 1 Cutler you have Gabbert, Quinn, Orton, Tebow, Krenzel, Campbell etc. Finding a guy like Cutler is rare.
finding a guy like Cutler is average. Period.
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finding a guy like Cutler is average. Period.
Not if you look at all the starting QBs the past 5 years...
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Not if you look at all the starting QBs the past 5 years...
so you're saying he has stats to backup him being a top 15 QB?
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Yup, it's what they do. Snatch defeat from jaws of victory. The intellect of the players and staff of the Cowboys is remarkably low.
Sometimes its better to be lucky than good. Replay saved 'em today. That and a bad call (off side vs. false start). The again, playing against the Packers' D is also pretty lucky.
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Sometimes its better to be lucky than good. Replay saved 'em today. That and a bad call (off side vs. false start). The again, playing against the Packers' D is also pretty lucky.
Cowboys haven't won it yet. If you were honest, you know that replay never should have happened as that was a hold \ PI playing Witten on that play.
Dallas still has a great chance of choking this, we have one of the worst defenses in NFL history
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If you were honest, you know that replay never should have happened as that was a hold \ PI playing Witten on that play.
Eh, I don't really agree. That happens on every play. Sometimes called, sometimes not.
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Eh, I don't really agree. That happens on every play. Sometimes called, sometimes not.
Hold, PI, it's a penalty.
Don't worry, Pack will win this.
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Wow, Dallas. Just wow.
Nice win by GB.
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And it's happening again.
I don't think the Packers are going to win this, but Garrett really continues to make mindboggling decisions by continuing to pass the ball when the Packers can't stop anyone on the ground.
Amen. Especially since I have Demarco Murray on my fantasy team. Unheard of play calling.
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Pack will win. The call will be overturned. INT.
Cutler's a turd.
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Everyone in Dallas should be fired.
Everyone.
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If Jerry Jones doesn't clean house after this season, he is a complete idiot. How did Dallas even win a game this year with the defense they have. Five straight possession TDs by GB in second half and, the offensive play calling was just diabolical. Not a Cowboy fan, but just basic football at its worst for "Americas Team".
Heck, even Aikman/Buck, who just said one of the worst defeats in Cowboys history, could not believe it.
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Everyone in Dallas should be fired.
Everyone.
Including the parking attendents. And Romo's 6th grade football coach from Burlington.
Everyone.
I am agreeing with you.
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I thought there was nobody who could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory like Jim Schwartz, but Jason Garrett showed him how it is done today.
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Pack will win. The call will be overturned. INT.
Cutler's a turd.
So is the entire Packers team but you don't see me saying that. Oh wait...
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Pack will win. The call will be overturned. INT.
Cutler's a turd.
Is there a QB controversy in GB now? Matt Flynn was lights out!
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I thought there was nobody who could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory like Jim Schwartz, but Jason Garrett showed him how it is done today.
Schartz is going to snatch unemployment from the jaws of cushy job after the next couple of weeks. I predict Detroit finishes 8-8, on the outside looking in, and in the market for a new coach.
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Even if the Packers end up on the outside, that was pretty damn fun.
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So is the entire Packers team but you don't see me saying that. Oh wait...
Bears are better with McCown.
Packers have their issues too.
Why is Cutler always being talked about like he is.....
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Bears are better with McCown.
Packers have their issues too.
Why is Cutler always being talked about like he is.....
I'm not even getting into this anymore cutler>mccown that's it
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If Jerry Jones doesn't clean house after this season, he is a complete idiot. How did Dallas even win a game this year with the defense they have. Five straight possession TDs by GB in second half and, the offensive play calling was just diabolical. Not a Cowboy fan, but just basic football at its worst for "Americas Team".
Heck, even Aikman/Buck, who just said one of the worst defeats in Cowboys history, could not believe it.
Packers are America's team lately
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I'm not even getting into this anymore cutler>mccown that's it
Fair enough.
Cutler just seems like a bighairywetcat. He's tough to like.
You may be right.
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Cowboys haven't won it yet. If you were honest, you know that replay never should have happened as that was a hold \ PI playing Witten on that play.
Dallas still has a great chance of choking this, we have one of the worst defenses in NFL history
Worst coach/GM combo since Matt Millen in Detroit
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After two fourth quarter comebacks, Packers can't think of replacing Flynn.
Right?
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If Jerry Jones doesn't clean house after this season, he is a complete idiot. How did Dallas even win a game this year with the defense they have. Five straight possession TDs by GB in second half and, the offensive play calling was just diabolical. Not a Cowboy fan, but just basic football at its worst for "Americas Team".
Heck, even Aikman/Buck, who just said one of the worst defeats in Cowboys history, could not believe it.
This what we do now. Jerry is the owner and the GM. Would any GM survive after going 16 years with one playoff win? Of course not, but he won't fire himself.
I just laugh now. Like I said in this thread, I knew GB was going to win, because it's what Dallas does. JJ created this mess years ago, and he refuses to take any ownership of it...no pun intended.
And Romo, it appears now that Romo audibled out of several run plays, which he is famous for doing. Garrett throwing him under the bus, but in a way I don't blame him. No excuse for it, but we've done it all year long.
And the truly sad thing, we still control our own destiny. LOL. It's such an epic joke I've been numb to it for the last 10 years to be honest.
EDIT: Romo just admitted he audibled out of several runs. Burlington, WI...please take your village idiot back.
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Packers are America's team lately
Not based on the annual polls done by Harris.
But if Dallas keeps doing this, they will lose that fake title.
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2013/10/16/Research-and-Ratings/Harris-Poll.aspx
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This what we do now. Jerry is the owner and the GM. Would any GM survive after going 16 years with one playoff win? Of course not, but he won't fire himself.
I just laugh now. Like I said in this thread, I knew GB was going to win, because it's what Dallas does. JJ created this mess years ago, and he refuses to take any ownership of it...no pun intended.
And Romo, it appears now that Romo audibled out of several run plays, which he is famous for doing. Garrett throwing him under the bus, but in a way I don't blame him. No excuse for it, but we've done it all year long.
And the truly sad thing, we still control our own destiny. LOL. It's such an epic joke I've been numb to it for the last 10 years to be honest.
EDIT: Romo just admitted he audibled out of several runs. Burlington, WI...please take your village idiot back.
Garret allowed Romo to audible out of running plays? Holy christ. Talk about the inmates running the asylum.
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Garret allowed Romo to audible out of running plays? Holy christ. Talk about the inmates running the asylum.
I don't know if he "allowed it", but yes Romo has the option. I would have been calling time out immediately if I heard him audible out of it, but that's my Boys for you. He did it in the first half as well, with Dallas up big and they threw 3 straight times when they could have put the dagger in. It's comical, it really is.
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Rodgers has the same option.
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Is jay a hall of famer? No. But look around the league this year. Hell just look at some rosters where the QB position has been a rotating door in the last 5-10 years (bears and browns come to mind). Yes, Cutler is a good qb. But no, he can't win on his own - few nfl qbs can (brady, manning, brees, Rodgers currently). The question for the bears is much bigger than just "is jay a good qb?" You've gotta factor in age, injury history, finances, etc. I won't be surprised either way if they sign him or don't - I can see reasonable arguments both ways. If it were me, I'd dump some of the big contracts on the D side of the ball (peppers), rebuild/reinvest in the defense, franchise Cutler for a couple years and groom a young qb behind him - keep Cutler around for not sucking now, and build for the long term.
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I think Dallas has a legit injury excuse on defense, at least somewhat, but I think it is safe to assume Garrett lost his job today.
It was nice to see Flynn play well. He looked like former GB Packer Matt Flynn in the second half. That, and Eddie Lacy is an absolute bitch. Very fun to watch him run the ball.
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I think Dallas has a legit injury excuse on defense, at least somewhat, but I think it is safe to assume Garrett lost his job today.
It was nice to see Flynn play well. He looked like former GB Packer Matt Flynn in the second half. That, and Eddie Lacy is an absolute bitch. Very fun to watch him run the ball.
Yeah, no kidding. But he's too fat, right? Thanks, NFL, for passing on Eddie Lacy, some teams twice. If nothing else, many teams who have to play the Packers should've taken him just to keep him from the Packers.
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McCown put up good numbers in back-to-back losses to last place teams yet people want him to remain the starter. Cutler puts up good numbers in a win against a last place team and people want him replaced. Everyone will see what they want to see.
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So, in an attempt to make people's heads explode, if you had Super Bowl talent across your roster, but you had to choose your QB between Cutler and Romo, who you taking?
Pretty sure I'm taking Cutler.
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Yeah, no kidding. But he's too fat, right? Thanks, NFL, for passing on Eddie Lacy, some teams twice. If nothing else, many teams who have to play the Packers should've taken him just to keep him from the Packers.
Lacy has been solid this season, no doubt. However, given his size and running style, do you think he will still be an effective runner 2-3 years from now? I have a feeling that teams feared that he wasn't going to have the longevity that you'd like from a 1st or 2nd round pick.
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Lacy has been solid this season, no doubt. However, given his size and running style, do you think he will still be an effective runner 2-3 years from now? I have a feeling that teams feared that he wasn't going to have the longevity that you'd like from a 1st or 2nd round pick.
In 2-3 years? Yes, I definitely do. I'm sure he will have to sit a game here and a game there, but 2-3 years into his career I definitely expect him to still be effective. At 30? No. But the dude is a top 5 running back in the NFL and is only a rookie. The fact that Montee Ball went before Eddie Lacy is a complete joke.
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I'm a Packer fan. I respect the Bears franchise, but hate them with a fan's passion.
The talk about Cutler is simply ridiculous. He's an incredibly tough hombre, with a rocket arm.
His pass to Alshon Jeffery today was 55 yards of cannon. Yes, incredible catch, but Jay threw it from 55 yards away. More than half the fracking field.
With Brandon and Alshon in Cutler's arsenal, the chatter about McCown makes little sense.
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So, in an attempt to make people's heads explode, if you had Super Bowl talent across your roster, but you had to choose your QB between Cutler and Romo, who you taking?
Pretty sure I'm taking Cutler.
Agree.
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Am I the only one that thinks the Lions throttle the Ravens tomorrow?
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Rodgers has the same option.
Of course he does, but it is the coaches JOB to control his players. If Romo is doing that you call TO, or you yank him from the game. Totally unacceptable.
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Of course he does, but it is the coaches JOB to control his players. If Romo is doing that you call TO, or you yank him from the game. Totally unacceptable.
Yeah that's because the Cowboys power structure is completely f*cked.
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Am I the only one that thinks the Lions throttle the Ravens tomorrow?
They are so damn hard to predict...who knows.
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In 2-3 years? Yes, I definitely do. I'm sure he will have to sit a game here and a game there, but 2-3 years into his career I definitely expect him to still be effective. At 30? No. But the dude is a top 5 running back in the NFL and is only a rookie. The fact that Montee Ball went before Eddie Lacy is a complete joke.
You don't really believe that, do you? Top 5 in the NFL? He's averaging under 4 yards per carry. Let's put it this way, which four guys are you taking off the list below (from the top of my head. I could be missing someone)?
Adrian Peterson
Marshawn Lynch
Alfred Morris
Matt Forte
Jamaal Charles
Shady McCoy
Reggie Bush
DeMarco Murray
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I'm a Packer fan. I respect the Bears franchise, but hate them with a fan's passion.
The talk about Cutler is simply ridiculous. He's an incredibly tough hombre, with a rocket arm.
His pass to Alshon Jeffery today was 55 yards of cannon. Yes, incredible catch, but Jay threw it from 55 yards away. More than half the fracking field.
With Brandon and Alshon in Cutler's arsenal, the chatter about McCown makes little sense.
On the money. He's never been and never will be Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady, but few are, but you can certainly put him in the next class of Rothlesberger, Eli, Romo, etc. McCown isn't close.
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Just saw the QB that has the highest 4th quarter QBR on the season, begins with Cut ends with Ler.
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You don't really believe that, do you? Top 5 in the NFL? He's averaging under 4 yards per carry. Let's put it this way, which four guys are you taking off the list below (from the top of my head. I could be missing someone)?
Adrian Peterson
Marshawn Lynch
Alfred Morris
Matt Forte
Jamaal Charles
Shady McCoy
Reggie Bush
DeMarco Murray
Top 5 was a bit of an exaggeration, but I do think he is a top tier running back. He did not start the year well (even in the preseason he didn't look very good). Since returning from his concussion he has looked like as good of a power back as you can find.
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What's kinda funny is that any of us even care about this season (and I admit I kinda don't). Raise your hand if you think there's a team in the North, even if they get back to full strength that has a chance to win one game, let alone two or three against the likes of Seattle, SF, or New Orleans. Get NO on the road and you might have a shot, but the other two I just don't see how.
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Just saw the QB that has the highest 4th quarter QBR on the season, begins with Cut ends with Ler.
Don't you ever even expect a star QB to win? We're talking once in eight years. Good QBs should be held to a higher standard.
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What's kinda funny is that any of us even care about this season (and I admit I kinda don't). Raise your hand if you think there's a team in the North, even if they get back to full strength that has a chance to win one game, let alone two or three against the likes of Seattle, SF, or New Orleans. Get NO on the road and you might have a shot, but the other two I just don't see how.
I absolutely think the Packers can make a run if they get into the Playoffs.
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I absolutely think the Packers can make a run if they get into the Playoffs.
You talking about the Green Bay Packers? Pretty sure I could rush for 100 yards against that defense. They have no chance of winning in the playoffs. Marshawn Lynch might put AJ Hawk in the hospital. Congrats on receiving your Homer card though.
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You talking about the Green Bay Packers? Pretty sure I could rush for 100 yards against that defense. They have no chance of winning in the playoffs. Marshawn Lynch might put AJ Hawk in the hospital. Congrats on receiving your Homer card though.
Hopefully we get a chance to find out.
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You talking about the Green Bay Packers? Pretty sure I could rush for 100 yards against that defense. They have no chance of winning in the playoffs. Marshawn Lynch might put AJ Hawk in the hospital. Congrats on receiving your Homer card though.
I'm sorry, I'm far from a GB homer, but if you don't believe that a healthy Rodgers would make GB one of the most dangerous teams in the league you might want to schedule a head exam.
Yes, the defense is porous, but with Rodgers they are a team that can put up enough points to hang with/beat anyone.
But I don't think Rodgers will be actually healthy this year. He may play, but won't be healthy.
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I think the Pack would be interesting if they make it, but if they have to go to Sea/Car/NO, I don't like their chances at all.
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I'm sorry, I'm far from a GB homer, but if you don't believe that a healthy Rodgers would make GB one of the most dangerous teams in the league you might want to schedule a head exam.
Yes, the defense is porous, but with Rodgers they are a team that can put up enough points to hang with/beat anyone.
Dude, you're dreaming. Good offense and a terrible defense playing against a good offense and a good defense is not a recipe for success in the NFL playoffs. Did you happen to notice what SF did to them last year, or the NYG the year before? You can't just try to out score teams in the playoffs.
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I absolutely think the Packers can make a run if they get into the Playoffs.
Packers defense is HORRENDOUS. Almost as bad as Dallas. No way they can make a deep run with that nonsense they call a defense.
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Don't you ever even expect a star QB to win? We're talking once in eight years. Good QBs should be held to a higher standard.
I dont consider what he did before the Bears on 2 mediocre Broncos teams, despite being a Pro Bowler one of those years.
Of the 4 years in Chicago, his first was on a bad team, his second they made the playoffs, third he hurt his hand, last year they finished 10-6 which gets you in 75% of the time.
So he's batting .333 in Chicago if you don't factor in quality of teams played on. I don't get why QB assessment is always so black and white.
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Cutler is a good, not great QB. I would think ther would be 100% agreement on that among objective people. Of course objectivity is not usually the first adjective that comes up when describing football fans.
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There's no prime time in Week 17, is there. So if the Packer-Bear game shapes up to be what it seems like it may be shaping up to be, they can't flex it, can they?
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There's no prime time in Week 17, is there. So if the Packer-Bear game shapes up to be what it seems like it may be shaping up to be, they can't flex it, can they?
They can, they'll decide end of next Sunday night. Have to figure either Bears/Pack or Pokes/Eagles.
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They can, they'll decide end of next Sunday night. Have to figure either Bears/Pack or Pokes/Eagles.
Ok, so just no MNF then? Gonna be in FLA that week, and want to make sure I plan accordingly, cause if DET manages to lose tomorrow, its on.
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Ok, so just no MNF then? Gonna be in FLA that week, and want to make sure I plan accordingly, cause if DET manages to lose tomorrow, its on.
You're correct, no MNF game that week.
If you want the betting lock of the year, take the over for McCoy rush yds vs Bears next Sunday night. Even if it's listed at 130, pound the over.
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Dude, you're dreaming. Good offense and a terrible defense playing against a good offense and a good defense is not a recipe for success in the NFL playoffs. Did you happen to notice what SF did to them last year, or the NYG the year before? You can't just try to out score teams in the playoffs.
I believe Rodgers won a SB with the 28th ranked defense a couple years ago - a defense that then lost 2 of their best players in the 1st half of that SB.
But if Cutler can get to the playoffs once every 8 years, he still has one more shot in his career.
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I believe Rodgers won a SB with the 28th ranked defense a couple years ago - a defense that then lost 2 of their best players in the 1st half of that SB.
I believe you couldn't be more wrong. In 2010, they were 5th in yds allowed and 2nd in points allowed. That's almost 28th I guess.
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I believe you couldn't be more wrong. In 2010, they were 5th in yds allowed and 2nd in points allowed. That's almost 28th I guess.
God I miss Nick Collins.
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Packers defense is HORRENDOUS. Almost as bad as Dallas. No way they can make a deep run with that nonsense they call a defense.
Yeah making the playoffs would be fun and all, but even if they get past the likes of San Francisco in a wild card game, they would likely be making road trips to Seattle and New Orleans. Not good.
And don't compare it to 2010 because that was obviously a good team that recovered from injuries just in time to make a run. There aren't many injuries on the defensive side of the ball right now...or at least serious ones. The reason they won that game yesterday is because the Cowboys only ran Murray 7 times in the second half. (Unbelievable.)
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If you want the betting lock of the year, take the over for McCoy rush yds vs Bears next Sunday night. Even if it's listed at 130, pound the over.
I tend to agree. If Briggs can come back though, I'd be a bit cautious with this one.
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The good news in all of this is that Packer and Bear fans still have football to care about going into week 16. Neither will be a threat in the playoffs, but a couple of weeks ago it looked like we'd all be 100% focused on MU BBall by now. I'll take as many Sundays as I can get.
Of course the Ravens really need to do their part tonight. Packers- Steelers at 3:25, followed by Bears-Eagles in prime time, and no work on Monday. I like that. Lions could suck the life right out of what could be a great day however, if they win their next two which will both take place before the Packers kick off.
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Yeah making the playoffs would be fun and all, but even if they get past the likes of San Francisco in a wild card game, they would likely be making road trips to Seattle and New Orleans. Not good.
And don't compare it to 2010 because that was obviously a good team that recovered from injuries just in time to make a run. There aren't many injuries on the defensive side of the ball right now...or at least serious ones. The reason they won that game yesterday is because the Cowboys only ran Murray 7 times in the second half. (Unbelievable.)
The only hope I have for the defense is that before Rodgers went down they were playing pretty well especially against the run. There was a lot of talk at that time (including McGinn of the Journal/sentinel) that the Packers defense had turned the corner and have become more physical making them a legitimate contender. Remember they were 5-2 against the most difficult part of their schedule and riding high, probably on track for home field advantage. So they are capable of playing better.
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Interesting stat. After the pick-six (mid-way thru Q2), Cutler went 14-19 for 161 yards, 3 TD and 0 INT. The Bears' offense scored 28 points, had a FG nullified by penalty, which led to 1 of just 2 punts from that point on. Cutler's day may not have started off very well (which many will focus on), but he certainly got it together and finished the last 2.5 quarters about as well as a QB could.
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The good news in all of this is that Packer and Bear fans still have football to care about going into week 16. Neither will be a threat in the playoffs, but a couple of weeks ago it looked like we'd all be 100% focused on MU BBall by now. I'll take as many Sundays as I can get.
+1
Even then, we made a concession last night. The kids are home and we paused the game during the 3rd quarter to eat dinner. Normally we'd wait until the end. Just glad jsglow jr. and I are more qualified owners than Jerry.
Sure hope that Matt Flynn understands that Green Bay is his home. Tuesday tryouts had to be pretty awful. Take your $1.2MM per year and end up with a sound mind and body after your playing days.
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They can, they'll decide end of next Sunday night. Have to figure either Bears/Pack or Pokes/Eagles.
There is no Sunday night or Monday night game in week 17 - so no games can be flexed.
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There are definitely Sunday night games in week 17.
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There are definitely Sunday night games in week 17.
Oh, sorry, you are correct. There is not a Sunday night game on the schedule, but reading more closely I see that NBC has the right to pick their game six days in advance.
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Interesting stat. After the pick-six (mid-way thru Q2), Cutler went 14-19 for 161 yards, 3 TD and 0 INT. The Bears' offense scored 28 points, had a FG nullified by penalty, which led to 1 of just 2 punts from that point on. Cutler's day may not have started off very well (which many will focus on), but he certainly got it together and finished the last 2.5 quarters about as well as a QB could.
That's a nice half no doubt. But you can do that for any quarterback at some point in their career. "If you take away the first half of this game (enter quarterback name here) threw 3 touchdowns and 0 interceptions. Well done."
Heck, after a first half that went like this:
- 6 plays, 41 yards, field goal
- 3 plays, -3 yards, punt
- 3 plays, 26 yards, punt
- 5 plays, 15 yards, punt
- 3 plays, 2 yards, interception
- 4 plays, 20 yards, punt
- 4 plays, 58 yards, end of half
Matt Flynn turned it around to lead the Packers to a second half of:
- 4 plays, 80 yards, touchdown
- 12 plays, 80 yards, touchdown
- 5 plays, 22 yards, touchdown
- 10 plays, 80 yards, touchdown
- 7 plays, 50 yards, touchdown
(- 2 plays, 2 kneels for -2 yards, end of game)
After totaling 160 yards and having 3 points in the first half, Flynn led the Packers to touchdowns on every 2nd half possession.
In the first half Flynn was 11/18 for 111 yards with 0 touchdowns and 1 interception and was sacked twice for -16 yards. In the 2nd half Flynn was 16/22 for 177 yards and 4 touchdowns without throwing an interception or a sack.
The problem with a lot of arguments are that fans say, "If you take away this game and that game (or this half) this player's numbers are incredible this year (or game)!" Well, those games/halves still happened. If I wanted to prove Eddie Lacy was a top 5 back I could've said "Take away the Lions and Giants game where he had a combined 43 yards and he's averaging well over 100 yards/game since returning from concussion in October." Well, you can't take those 2 games away because those 2 games happened. If you take away the 13 games the Packers have played outside of yesterday and Lacy is averaging 141 yards and a touchdown every game! The man's the best running back in the history of the NFL! No.
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Just saw the QB that has the highest 4th quarter QBR on the season, begins with Cut ends with Ler.
Ahh, if only they could play just 1 quarter in the NFL. Wouldn't it be nice?
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That's a nice half no doubt. But you can do that for any quarterback at some point in their career. "If you take away the first half of this game (enter quarterback name here) threw 3 touchdowns and 0 interceptions. Well done."
Heck, after a first half that went like this:
- 6 plays, 41 yards, field goal
- 3 plays, -3 yards, punt
- 3 plays, 26 yards, punt
- 5 plays, 15 yards, punt
- 3 plays, 2 yards, interception
- 4 plays, 20 yards, punt
- 4 plays, 58 yards, end of half
Matt Flynn turned it around to lead the Packers to a second half of:
- 4 plays, 80 yards, touchdown
- 12 plays, 80 yards, touchdown
- 5 plays, 22 yards, touchdown
- 10 plays, 80 yards, touchdown
- 7 plays, 50 yards, touchdown
(- 2 plays, 2 kneels for -2 yards, end of game)
After totaling 160 yards and having 3 points in the first half, Flynn led the Packers to touchdowns on every 2nd half possession.
In the first half Flynn was 11/18 for 111 yards with 0 touchdowns and 1 interception and was sacked twice for -16 yards. In the 2nd half Flynn was 16/22 for 177 yards and 4 touchdowns without throwing an interception or a sack.
The problem with a lot of arguments are that fans say, "If you take away this game and that game (or this half) this player's numbers are incredible this year (or game)!" Well, those games/halves still happened. If I wanted to prove Eddie Lacy was a top 5 back I could've said "Take away the Lions and Giants game where he had a combined 26 yards and he's averaging well over 100 yards/game since returning from concussion in October." Well, you can't take those 2 games away because those 2 games happened. If you take away the 13 games the Packers have played outside of yesterday and Lacy is averaging 141 yards and a touchdown every game! The man's the best running back in the history of the NFL! No.
Yes, this is one of my pet peeves. Cherry pick the parts that fit your argument and leave out the rest. It happens quite a bit here and elsewhere.
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Yes, this is one of my pet peeves. Cherry pick the parts that fit your argument and leave out the rest. It happens quite a bit here and elsewhere.
I'm not saying that I'm immune to doing so myself, and I don't mean to pick out 1 example. It happens all the time everywhere, but it's not realistic.
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Ahh, if only they could play just 1 quarter in the NFL. Wouldn't it be nice?
It's really hard to discount that stat, especially the most important quarter of the game.
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It's really hard to discount that stat, especially the most important quarter of the game.
If you want one quarter to be your quarterback's best quarter of course you want it to be the 4th quarter, that is a fair point.
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That's a nice half no doubt. But you can do that for any quarterback at some point in their career. "If you take away the first half of this game (enter quarterback name here) threw 3 touchdowns and 0 interceptions. Well done."
Heck, after a first half that went like this:
- 6 plays, 41 yards, field goal
- 3 plays, -3 yards, punt
- 3 plays, 26 yards, punt
- 5 plays, 15 yards, punt
- 3 plays, 2 yards, interception
- 4 plays, 20 yards, punt
- 4 plays, 58 yards, end of half
Matt Flynn turned it around to lead the Packers to a second half of:
- 4 plays, 80 yards, touchdown
- 12 plays, 80 yards, touchdown
- 5 plays, 22 yards, touchdown
- 10 plays, 80 yards, touchdown
- 7 plays, 50 yards, touchdown
(- 2 plays, 2 kneels for -2 yards, end of game)
After totaling 160 yards and having 3 points in the first half, Flynn led the Packers to touchdowns on every 2nd half possession.
In the first half Flynn was 11/18 for 111 yards with 0 touchdowns and 1 interception and was sacked twice for -16 yards. In the 2nd half Flynn was 16/22 for 177 yards and 4 touchdowns without throwing an interception or a sack.
The problem with a lot of arguments are that fans say, "If you take away this game and that game (or this half) this player's numbers are incredible this year (or game)!" Well, those games/halves still happened. If I wanted to prove Eddie Lacy was a top 5 back I could've said "Take away the Lions and Giants game where he had a combined 43 yards and he's averaging well over 100 yards/game since returning from concussion in October." Well, you can't take those 2 games away because those 2 games happened. If you take away the 13 games the Packers have played outside of yesterday and Lacy is averaging 141 yards and a touchdown every game! The man's the best running back in the history of the NFL! No.
Cutler hadn't played in over a month and was coming back from an injury that he clearly hasn't fully recovered from. He looked rusty at first, had some passes sail on him and forced a few things that weren't there. As the game went on, he took what was there, shook the rust off, played very well and most importantly, got the win. I never said that the ugly plays didn't happen nor did I say to take away anything. I said that from a specific point on, he played very well and much more under control, which is a very positive sign. Hopefully he continues to do that because if he does, the offense will be tough to stop.
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Look out packers... Vikes are comin!!! SKOL Vikings!
Oops.
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Ahh, if only they could play just 1 quarter in the NFL. Wouldn't it be nice?
Cleveland would be happy with 3.
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Matt Flynn turned it around to lead the Packers to a second half of:
- 4 plays, 80 yards, touchdown
- 12 plays, 80 yards, touchdown
- 5 plays, 22 yards, touchdown
- 10 plays, 80 yards, touchdown
- 7 plays, 50 yards, touchdown
(- 2 plays, 2 kneels for -2 yards, end of game)
After totaling 160 yards and having 3 points in the first half, Flynn led the Packers to touchdowns on every 2nd half possession.
I don't care who you are, or who you root for, that's pretty incredible. Between that and the 6 TD performance a couple years ago, the guy has his own little Packer legend Niche. He could easily settle into a very comfortable Doug Pederson roll for the next several years, and have a very nice NFL career.
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I dont consider what he did before the Bears on 2 mediocre Broncos teams, despite being a Pro Bowler one of those years.
Of the 4 years in Chicago, his first was on a bad team, his second they made the playoffs, third he hurt his hand, last year they finished 10-6 which gets you in 75% of the time.
So he's batting .333 in Chicago if you don't factor in quality of teams played on. I don't get why QB assessment is always so black and white.
Now this is funny to me. You say the Broncos were mediocre. The Broncos went to the Playoffs each of the 3 years before Cutler came to the Broncos, and then did not go to the Playoffs the 2 years Cutler was in Denver. They averaged 11 wins per game the 3 years prior to Cutler being in Denver, and went 13-3 in 2005. That's mediocre? That was good for the #1 seed in the AFC. In 2006 the Broncos started out 7-4 with Jake Plummer under center before handing it over (maybe Plummer got injured?) to Cutler where they finished 2-3. Can you blame that on Cutler? No, he had never started before week 13 of that year. But then in 2007 the Broncos go 7-9 and 2008 they go 8-8. The Broncos were not mediocre when Cutler came in at all. Is Cutler the only thing that changed to make the Broncos mediocre? Of course not. But you can't say there weren't pieces there to get into the Playoffs. There were.
Then in 2008 (the year before Cutler came to the Bears) you look at the Bears and they were 9-7 with Kyle Orton as their quarterback. Clearly, there were some decent pieces in place if Kyle Orton is winning 9 games. Cutler's first year in Chicago one year later? 7-9.
I know people love to point out Cutler has had X amount of offensive coordinators and so many different head coaches and his receivers have sucked and just got hot for McCown and there were no pieces in place when he came into the situations he was coming into and blah blah blah. But at some point you have to realize the one consistent variable is that Jay Cutler has been under center for all of those things and has made the Playoffs once in 8 years.
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I know people love to point out Cutler has had X amount of offensive coordinators and so many different head coaches and his receivers have sucked and just got hot for McCown and there were no pieces in place when he came into the situations he was coming into and blah blah blah.
I think Cutler is actually pretty good, but I do also think the multiple OC thing is a bit overplayed. A QB can certainly make an offensive coordinator look good or, and can also get them fired. I don't think we need any more evidence than Tont Romo yesterday, and the fate he undoubtedly delivered Jason Garrett (who is certainly also to blame). Point is, it is not usually just one or the other. Coordinators are the hitting and pitching coaches of the NFL, When a QB plays well, they look good. When they play poorly the look bad. Talent is everything. see Dom Capers in 2010...the Packers had a top 5 defense and he received all kinds of credit. The last couple years, they stink, and he's a bum.
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Now this is funny to me. You say the Broncos were mediocre. The Broncos went to the Playoffs each of the 3 years before Cutler came to the Broncos, and then did not go to the Playoffs the 2 years Cutler was in Denver. They averaged 11 wins per game the 3 years prior to Cutler being in Denver, and went 13-3 in 2005. That's mediocre? That was good for the #1 seed in the AFC. In 2006 the Broncos started out 7-4 with Jake Plummer under center before handing it over (maybe Plummer got injured?) to Cutler where they finished 2-3. Can you blame that on Cutler? No, he had never started before week 13 of that year. But then in 2007 the Broncos go 7-9 and 2008 they go 8-8. The Broncos were not mediocre when Cutler came in at all. Is Cutler the only thing that changed to make the Broncos mediocre? Of course not. But you can't say there weren't pieces there to get into the Playoffs. There were.
Then in 2008 (the year before Cutler came to the Bears) you look at the Bears and they were 9-7 with Kyle Orton as their quarterback. Clearly, there were some decent pieces in place if Kyle Orton is winning 9 games. Cutler's first year in Chicago one year later? 7-9.
I know people love to point out Cutler has had X amount of offensive coordinators and so many different head coaches and his receivers have sucked and just got hot for McCown and there were no pieces in place when he came into the situations he was coming into and blah blah blah. But at some point you have to realize the one consistent variable is that Jay Cutler has been under center for all of those things and has made the Playoffs once in 8 years.
You can spin numbers however you want.
In 2006, Cutler put up significantly better numbers than Plummer but Jake went 7-4 and Jay went 2-3. Is that on Cutler?
In 2007, the Broncos' offense went from Ranking 21st to ranking 11th while the D went from 14th to 19th. Is that on Cutler?
In 2008, the Broncos' offense was ranked 2nd and the D slipped to 29th. Is that on Cutler?
In 2010, the Bears went to the NFC title game. Does Cutler get credit for that?
In 2011, the Bears would have made the playoffs if Marion Barber stayed in-bounds against Denver. Is that on Cutler?
GB was 13-3 in 2007 but went 6-10 with Rodgers the next season. Is that on Rodgers?
In 2009, GB went 11-5 but were one-and-done in the playoffs. Is that on Rodgers?
In 2010, GB went 10-6 and needed a blown special teams play by the Giants just to get into the playoffs. Does Rodgers get credit for that?
In 2011, GB went 15-1 but lost a home playoff game. Is that on Rodgers?
In 2012, GB got embarrassed by SF in the playoffs. Is that on Rodgers?
In SB 32, the Packers were 14-point favorites yet lost. Is that on Favre?
Like I said, you can use numbers to see whatever you want to see. You choose to see any and all negatives that you can find on Jay Cutler. That's your prerogative.
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You can spin numbers however you want.
In 2006, Cutler put up significantly better numbers than Plummer but Jake went 7-4 and Jay went 2-3. Is that on Cutler?
In 2007, the Broncos' offense went from Ranking 21st to ranking 11th while the D went from 14th to 19th. Is that on Cutler?
In 2008, the Broncos' offense was ranked 2nd and the D slipped to 29th. Is that on Cutler?
In 2010, the Bears went to the NFC title game. Does Cutler get credit for that?
In 2011, the Bears would have made the playoffs if Marion Barber stayed in-bounds against Denver. Is that on Cutler?
GB was 13-3 in 2007 but went 6-10 with Rodgers the next season. Is that on Rodgers?
In 2009, GB went 11-5 but were one-and-done in the playoffs. Is that on Rodgers?
In 2010, GB went 10-6 and needed a blown special teams play by the Giants just to get into the playoffs. Does Rodgers get credit for that?
In 2011, GB went 15-1 but lost a home playoff game. Is that on Rodgers?
In 2012, GB got embarrassed by SF in the playoffs. Is that on Rodgers?
In SB 32, the Packers were 14-point favorites yet lost. Is that on Favre?
Like I said, you can use numbers to see whatever you want to see. You choose to see any and all negatives that you can find on Jay Cutler. That's your prerogative.
Or I just choose to point out that it's easy to say the Broncos were "mediocre" and the Bears were "mediocre" for Cutler. Look at the post I quoted. The guy literally says he doesn't count any of Cutler's career except the last 4 years because the teams he played on were mediocre. One, that's an absurd thing to say. Two, that's simply not true.
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Or I just choose to point out that it's easy to say the Broncos were "mediocre" and the Bears were "mediocre" for Cutler. Look at the post I quoted. The guy literally says he doesn't count any of Cutler's career except the last 4 years because the teams he played on were mediocre. One, that's an absurd thing to say. Two, that's simply not true.
Not saying that I agree with him, but how can you prove that it's simply not true?
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Not saying that I agree with him, but how can you prove that it's simply not true?
I phrased my statement terribly. I more meant it to say that I don't consider what Cutler did in Denver when I assess his tenure in Chicago. He played on borderline teams there, so its not as if he had the reigns of a thriving team and didn't deliver. That's what I meant. It was a bit too overgeneralized. Mike Shanahan was fired just before Cutler was traded. After a season in which Cutler made a Pro Bowl. I would say there were things slightly outside of his sphere of influence that contributed to that team not making the playoffs.
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What I find interesting about this thread lately is that we have a whole bunch of Packer talk and we have a whole bunch of Bear talk but I don't see a single example of the two fan bases turning on each other. ;D
I suggest we all go over and solve the Middle East problems. Carry on.
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What I find interesting about this thread lately is that we have a whole bunch of Packer talk and we have a whole bunch of Bear talk but I don't see a single example of the two fan bases turning on each other. ;D
I suggest we all go over and solve the Middle East problems. Carry on.
Even though the Bears are intense rivals of the Packers, I actually respect the Bears organization. Some of their fans are delusional, but that goes for all fan bases.
I couldn't say I respect the Vikings and Lions, especially the Vikings. I may find myself in the awkward position of rooting for the Vikings to beat the lions the last game of the season.
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As a Lion's fan, I could find myself in the awkward position of CARING about the last game of the season.
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What I find interesting about this thread lately is that we have a whole bunch of Packer talk and we have a whole bunch of Bear talk but I don't see a single example of the two fan bases turning on each other. ;D
I suggest we all go over and solve the Middle East problems. Carry on.
I guess that's what happens when both sides understand that neither team is any good. Playoff contenders, but nothing more. Not God awful like the Vikings, and not pretenders like the Lions.
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Hub says Peanut will not be back this year. Was that already known?
With Rodgers and Briggs seemingly both expected soon, would leave Cobb as the only significant unknown.
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Hub says Peanut will not be back this year. Was that already known?
With Rodgers and Briggs seemingly both expected soon, would leave Cobb as the only significant unknown.
I thought I remember hearing that Peanut would be back for the playoffs if the Bears made it. You couldbe right though. Havent heard anything on him in a while.
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Hub says Peanut will not be back this year. Was that already known?
With Rodgers and Briggs seemingly both expected soon, would leave Cobb as the only significant unknown.
Trestman made it official today. Wouldn't say much about it for privacy.
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Down 18 points in my fantasy leagues semifinals only because the other guy had Jamal Charles. I have Torrey Smith going tonight. Think he can get 18 against the Lions? 10 yds=1pt TD=6 100yds receiving=3 bonus points and 3 pts for every 5 receptions
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For you, Chicos.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/espn-sports-science-segment-reveals-physics-of-ton,30210/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview%3AWeek1%3AInFocus
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I'm taking down the 1 seed right now, up 23 but he has the Ravens defense, I have Akers. I should get through to the finals.
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For you, Chicos.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/espn-sports-science-segment-reveals-physics-of-ton,30210/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview%3AWeek1%3AInFocus
I enjoyed the one from 3 years ago when the Cowboys released Jerry Jones...if only the Onion was real.
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2 phantom penalties, 2 bad drops......Detroit football at it's finest.
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2 phantom penalties, 2 bad drops......Detroit football at it's finest.
Phantom penalties?
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The Lions are for sure losing one of these last three games.
I really thought they'd roll tonight too.
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Man, Baltimore's defense...supposed to be not so good this year, but they seem to be just as physical and badass as ever.
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I believe the Bears will go hard after Arthur Jones this offseason.
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The Lions are for sure losing one of these last three games.
I really thought they'd roll tonight too.
This is probably right. They may win tonight, but they clearly suck just as bad as the Packers and Bears.
Who will claim the title of Tallest Midget?
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Holy Romo, Matthew Stafford!
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Wow, what a terrible int. Lions could lose two of these last three. I think they'll lose at MIN.
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Wow, what a terrible int. Lions could lose two of these last three. I think they'll lose at MIN.
Wish I could agree. I think this is the game. Giants and Vikings are terrible.
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Wish I could agree. I think this is the game. Giants and Vikings are terrible.
Could be wishful thinking, but Vikes playing better at home, final game ever in Metrodome, AP probably goes, feels like it has potential.
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What a catch...
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Wow. That 3rd down play call was interesting. Set yourself up for a 60 yard field goal?
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Holy effin hell! Wow.
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Wooooooow
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Really odd sequence before that kick, odd decisions by both teams.
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Now. We. Go!
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Amazing.
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I'm stunned.
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Coach Schwartz right behind Jason Garrett in the unemployment line.
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Bears Packers may actually mean a whole lot come week 17.
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Tucker is a well spoken dude. Seems like a really classy guy (with a pretty good sense of humor).
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Have to admit I was cursing Jim Harbaugh's name for attempting that FG. What a weapon.
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Have to admit I was cursing Jim Harbaugh's name for attempting that FG. What a weapon.
Same. I was not happy with the draw call on 3rd and 10.
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So this is where we are at...
If Pack beat Steelers and Bears beat Eagles, Week 17 is for the crown.
If all three teams go 1-1, Lions win the division.
With Cutler and Rodgers both missing significant time, both defenses bad, it is incredible to me where we stand right now.
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Also, if the Bears win out, they would be the three seed. My head hurts contemplating that.
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So this is where we are at...
If Pack beat Steelers and Bears beat Eagles, Week 17 is for the crown.
If all three teams go 1-1, Lions win the division.
With Cutler and Rodgers both missing significant time, both defenses bad, it is incredible to me where we stand right now.
I dont see the Packers beating the Steelers. Theyre on a tear right now. Lions dont win the division if everybody goes 1-1, Bears would still take it.
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I dont see the Packers beating the Steelers. Theyre on a tear right now. Lions dont win the division if everybody goes 1-1, Bears would still take it.
Yeah, I was going through different scenarios and wrote wrong scenario. That was if Lions won tonight.
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I believe the Bears will go hard after Arthur Jones this offseason.
I'd be all for that!
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I dont see the Packers beating the Steelers. Theyre on a tear right now. Lions dont win the division if everybody goes 1-1, Bears would still take it.
Right, Steelers are on a tear because they won 1 in a row and 1 of the last 3. Hell of a tear.
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So this is where we are at...
If Pack beat Steelers and Bears beat Eagles, Week 17 is for the crown.
If all three teams go 1-1, Lions win the division.
With Cutler and Rodgers both missing significant time, both defenses bad, it is incredible to me where we stand right now.
Sorry Dish, if either the Packers or Bears go 1-1 the Lions must win out. They have a very slim chance of making the playoffs. This weekend is the key for them as obviously somebody wins the Packers/Bears game in 2 weeks.
Amazing that ESPN couldn't get their graphic correct last night for more than 5 minutes. That was pretty lousy television production. Anyway, really looking forward to the week 17 clash. I'm sort of hoping that both the Bears and Packers win this week such that both teams are on a bit of a roll. The only scenario where that game doesn't matter is with a Bear win and a Packer loss this week.
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Sorry Dish, if either the Packers or Bears go 1-1 the Lions must win out. They have a very slim chance of making the playoffs. This weekend is the key for them as obviously somebody wins the Packers/Bears game in 2 weeks.
Amazing that ESPN couldn't get their graphic correct last night for more than 5 minutes. That was pretty lousy television production. Anyway, really looking forward to the week 17 clash. I'm sort of hoping that both the Bears and Packers win this week such that both teams are on a bit of a roll. The only scenario where that game doesn't matter is with a Bear win and a Packer loss this week.
Yeah, I corrected myself already.
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Bears and Packers control their destiny. If both win next week the Lions are out. Pretty amazing considering the division was pretty much theirs for the taking on Thanksgiving.
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Bears and Packers control their destiny. If both win next week the Lions are out. Pretty amazing considering the division was pretty much theirs for the taking on Thanksgiving.
Not really that amazing when you consider they're the Lions ;)
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Bears and Packers control their destiny. If both win next week the Lions are out. Pretty amazing considering the division was pretty much theirs for the taking on Thanksgiving.
And the Lions played a 'statement game' that day.
While it remains 100 to 1 minimum, perhaps the Packers just decided not to lose again this year during halftime on Sunday. Wouldn't that be a run for the ages? Anyway, at least we're still playing meaningful football. Sports was looking pretty bleak for me about 3 weeks ago.
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Bears Packers may actually mean a whole lot come week 17.
Bears - Packers always means a whole lot!!
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For all the roasting Cutler takes on here, might need to start looking at Stafford, his numbers, his contract.
All three=not so good.
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Stafford is somewhere between Tony Romo and a young Brett Favre.
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For all the roasting Cutler takes on here, might need to start looking at Stafford, his numbers, his contract.
All three=not so good.
Inflated from playing with perhaps the most physically gifted WR ever. He should be tithing from his contract to Megatron.
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I believe the Bears will go hard after Arthur Jones this offseason.
What a ridiculous family.
Art Jones is a DE for Ravens. His younger brother, Chandler, plays DE for the Patriots. His older brother is Bones Jones.
Just a little bit of athletic ability in that family...
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I believe the Bears will go hard after Arthur Jones this offseason.
Not if they are going to pay Cutler.
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Not if they are going to pay Cutler.
Check out the Bears players under contract for 2014, they have like 10.
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Check out the Bears players under contract for 2014, they have like 10.
4th most cap space in the league next year.
http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/14.png
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Heard an interesting stat. Since Stafford has been in the league he only has 4 wins against teams who went on to have winning records. People bash Cutler all the time but nobody mentions Stafford and his side arm throw.
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NFL made a big mistake in flexing out of Ravens/Pats to go with Bears/Eagles. Depending on what happens earlier in the day, you could have an exhibition game in primetime in Week 16.
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NFL made a big mistake in flexing out of Ravens/Pats to go with Bears/Eagles. Depending on what happens earlier in the day, you could have an exhibition game in primetime in Week 16.
Even if the Packers and Lions both lost, wouldn't the Bears still have to win to clinch?
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Even if the Packers and Lions both lost, wouldn't the Bears still have to win to clinch?
Not if the Bears beat the eagles. the pack would have 7 losses and the tie after next week. If the bears lost to the Packers they would have 7 losses no tie and finish ahead. If the lions lose they are done, they would have 8 losses
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Even if the Packers and Lions both lost, wouldn't the Bears still have to win to clinch?
Yes, but if Dallas loses at Washington, the Eagles clinch the East.
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If Lions lose, and Packers win, Bears have nothing to play for.
If Cowboys win, Eagles have nothing to play for.
Only scenarios where this game matters is if Cowboys lose and Lions and Packers both lose, then it's a hell of a game. If the Cowboys win, if I'm Chip Kelly, why bother playing anyone worth anything in the second half?
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If Lions lose, and Packers win, Bears have nothing to play for.
If Cowboys win, Eagles have nothing to play for.
Only scenarios where this game matters is if Cowboys lose and Lions and Packers both lose, then it's a hell of a game. If the Cowboys win, if I'm Chip Kelly, why bother playing anyone worth anything in the second half?
That's not right. The game matters to the Bears regardless of the early games. The game only doesn't matter to Philly if Dallas loses.
If the Lions lose, they're 7-8 and own the tie-breaker against the Bears who could still finish 8-8. If Det loses and GB wins, the Lions are out.
If GB wins, they'd be 8-6-1 and potentially facing the 8-7 or 7-8 Bears with Week 17 being for the division (8-7-1 > 8-8). If Det also wins, they can still win the division.
If GB loses and either the Bears or Lions win, GB is out.
Clarified...I think ?-(
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That's not right. If the Lions lose, they're 7-8 and own the tie-breaker against the Bears who could still finish 8-8. If GB wins, they'd be 8-6-1 and facing either the 8-7 or 7-8 Bears with Week 17 being for the division (8-7-1 > 8-8).
You're incorrect. If the Lions lose and the Packers win on Sundaay, the winner of Bears/Packers wins the division, does not matter what the Lions do in Week 17.
Ironically, if Bears/Eagles was at noon or 3:25, the significance of that game would be completely different. Both the Bears and Eagles gain huge advantages knowing the outcomes of the earlier games.
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You're incorrect. If the Lions lose and the Packers win on Sundaay, the winner of Bears/Packers wins the division, does not matter what the Lions do in Week 17.
I shouldn't have lumped those together. I'll clarify above.
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That's not right. The game matters to the Bears regardless of the early games. The game only doesn't matter to Philly if Dallas loses.
If the Lions lose, they're 7-8 and own the tie-breaker against the Bears who could still finish 8-8. If Det loses and GB wins, the Lions are out.
If GB wins, they'd be 8-6-1 and facing either the 8-7 or 7-8 Bears with Week 17 being for the division (8-7-1 > 8-8). If Det also wins, they can still win the division.
If GB loses and either the Bears or Lions win, GB is out.
Clarified...I think ?-(
No that's wrong. Bears can not be 7-8. Green Bay could still get in they lose to Pittsburg if Bears lose to Philly and Detroit loses week 17. (I think)
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If GB loses and either the Bears or Lions win, GB is out.
True in the Bears' case, but not the Lions. Lions would still have only 8 wins, meaning a Packer win over the Bears in week 17 (assuming they lost to the Eagles), coupled with a lion lose to the Vikings, would out the Packers at 8-7-1, and the Lions at 8-8.
To the original point, there is a very good chance the SNF game will have very little meaning to the Bears.
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If Lions lose, and Packers win, Bears have nothing to play for.
If Cowboys win, Eagles have nothing to play for.
Only scenarios where this game matters is if Cowboys lose and Lions and Packers both lose, then it's a hell of a game. If the Cowboys win, if I'm Chip Kelly, why bother playing anyone worth anything in the second half?
???
If Dallas wins, then the Eagles have everything to play for. It's only if Dallas loses that Philly benefits.
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No that's wrong. Bears can not be 7-8. Green Bay could still get in they lose to Pittsburg if Bears lose to Philly and Detroit loses week 17. (I think)
Yep, you're right. I fixed that.
To the original point, there is a very good chance the SNF game will have very little meaning to the Bears.
The game will mean something to the Bears regardless. Even if GB and Detroit both lose, the Bears still need to win to clinch the division.
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Addition and subtraction of single digit numbers shouldn't be this difficult.
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/machine
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/playoffscenario
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???
If Dallas wins, then the Eagles have everything to play for. It's only if Dallas loses that Philly benefits.
You're 100% wrong. If the Cowboys win, the division is decided in Week 17 no matter what the Eagles do.
Just read Chip Kelly quoted as saying he'll play his starters the entire game, even if it's meaningless to the Eagles.
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You're 100% wrong. If the Cowboys win, the division is decided in Week 17 no matter what the Eagles do.
Just read Chip Kelly quoted as saying he'll play his starters the entire game, even if it's meaningless to the Eagles.
I'm sorry, I guess I misunderstood. I thought you were implying that the Eagles had it clinched at that point and the last game didn't mean anything. Now I get what you are saying.
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If Detroit loses and Green Bay wins, the Bears game has no meaning, other than potential playoff seeding with the Eagles (3 seed vs 4 seed).
If Green Bay wins (Detroit loses), Week 17 at Chicago decides the division by virute of the Bears owning the tiebreaker over Green Bay.
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Ironically, if Bears/Eagles was at noon or 3:25, the significance of that game would be completely different. Both the Bears and Eagles gain huge advantages knowing the outcomes of the earlier games.
Makes no difference. It's week 16 and they both need to win. If either team wins their last 2 games, they are in.
Very simple - both teams control their own destiny regardless of what anyone does in the early games
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The main point of this is this game should not be flexed to later in the day. It's not fair to the Cowboys, Packers, Lions.
If things fell a certain way, both the Bears and Eagles could essentially get a bye week and rest everyone if they wanted to, and go all in Week 17. From an integrity of the league standpoint, Pats/Ravens or Saints/Panthers should be the Sunday night game.
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Makes no difference. It's week 16 and they both need to win. If either team wins their last 2 games, they are in.
Very simple - both teams control their own destiny regardless of what anyone does in the early games
This is entirely false. It absolutely matters what time these games are played.
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If Detroit loses and Green Bay wins, the Bears game has no meaning, other than potential playoff seeding with the Eagles (3 seed vs 4 seed).
If Green Bay wins (Detroit loses), Week 17 at Chicago decides the division by virute of the Bears owning the tiebreaker over Green Bay.
Too many ins and outs. I'll just do what I always do - Root for the Bears, root against GB and laugh at the bumbling Lions.
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Too many ins and outs. I'll just do what I always do - Root for the packers, root against Bears and Vikings and laugh at the bumbling Lions.
FIFY
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Stats are fun.
Cowboys are 4th in the league in yards pert attempt rushing.
Yet they are 31st in rushing attempts per game.
You really can't make this stuff up.
You are welcome Packers, Chiefs, Lions and other teams we have totally collapsed against this year.
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Stats are fun.
Cowboys are 4th in the league in yards pert attempt rushing.
Yet they are 31st in rushing attempts per game.
You really can't make this stuff up.
You are welcome Packers, Chiefs, Lions and other teams we have totally collapsed against this year.
And still both Garrett and Jones defend not running in the 2nd half? Garrett said he was worried they might get too many 'bad' runs!! So when did a 'bad' run happen in the 1st half?
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The Bears (8-6) would clinch the NFC North title with a win Sunday night over the Eagles in Philadelphia coupled with losses by both the Packers (7-6-1) to the Steelers in Green Bay and the Lions (7-7) to the Giants in Detroit earlier in the day.
Matt Forte and the Bears are in quest of their first NFC North title since 2010.
If the Lions lose and the Packers win, Sunday night's game would be meaningless to the Bears in terms of the division race because the NFC North title would go to the winner of next weekend's season finale between the Bears and Packers at Soldier Field regardless of what transpires in Philadelphia.
If the Lions win and the Packers lose, the Bears would need to beat the Eagles to maintain control of their own destiny over Detroit while also eliminating Green Bay from playoff contention. The Bears would then need a win over the Packers or a loss by the Lions to the Vikings in Minnesota next weekend to claim the division crown.
If the Lions win and the Bears lose Sunday, the Bears would only win the division with a victory over the Packers coupled with a Detroit loss to the Vikings.
If the Bears, Packers and Lions all win or all lose Sunday, Detroit would be eliminated and the winner of next weekend's Chicago-Green Bay game would capture the NFC North title.
Regardless of Sunday's results, the Bears cannot be eliminated from playoff contention this weekend.
The Eagles (8-6) are in a similar situation to the Bears in the NFC East. If the Cowboys (7-7) beat the Redskins in Washington Sunday, Sunday night's game against the Bears would be meaningless to Philadelphia in terms of the division race because the NFC East title would go to the winner of the Week 17 battle between the Eagles and Cowboys in Dallas.
If the Bears win the NFC North, they would enter the playoffs as the third or fourth seed in the NFC and host a wildcard team in the first round Jan. 4 or 5 at Soldier Field.
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The main point of this is this game should not be flexed to later in the day. It's not fair to the Cowboys, Packers, Lions.
If things fell a certain way, both the Bears and Eagles could essentially get a bye week and rest everyone if they wanted to, and go all in Week 17. From an integrity of the league standpoint, Pats/Ravens or Saints/Panthers should be the Sunday night game.
So the Bears should rest everyone if GB and Detroit lose? So you would want to rest players for a game to clinch a playoff spot. Sounds like you should start being a Lions or Cowboys fan - the coaching there is more your style.
So tell me under what conditions should the Bears give away the game this week? Or For that matter, why would Philly try not to win to clinch a playoff spot if Dallas loses earlier in the day to the Redskins?
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So the Bears should rest everyone if GB and Detroit lose? So you would want to rest players for a game to clinch a playoff spot. Sounds like you should start being a Lions or Cowboys fan - the coaching there is more your style.
So tell me under what conditions should the Bears give away the game this week? Or For that matter, why would Philly try not to win to clinch a playoff spot if Dallas loses earlier in the day to the Redskins?
What the hell are you talking about? Did you not comprehend anything said above?
IF...again...IF...Detroit loses and Green Bay WINS, for the Bears, the outcome of Eagles/Bears means absolutely nothing. If GB and Detroit both lose, then the Bears have everything to play for. Not once did I say otherwise. Same with Philly. If Dallas loses, they have everything to play for. If you read the above AGAIN, I said "If Dallas wins, Philly has nothing to play for", which is 100% true.
Come on man.
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And still both Garrett and Jones defend not running in the 2nd half? Garrett said he was worried they might get too many 'bad' runs!! So when did a 'bad' run happen in the 1st half?
Trust me, it boggles the minds of Cowboys fans to no end. Absolutely mind boggling, especially when you have the second worst defense in NFL history. Wouldn't you want to keep them on the sideline and not on the field. Amazing.
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The Pittsburgh @ Green Bay game could be snow game. A little early to predict yet, but they are predicting multiple inches of snow on Sunday.
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The Pittsburgh @ Green Bay game could be snow game. A little early to predict yet, but they are predicting multiple inches of snow on Sunday.
So, more than 2?
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What the hell are you talking about? Did you not comprehend anything said above?
IF...again...IF...Detroit loses and Green Bay WINS, for the Bears, the outcome of Eagles/Bears means absolutely nothing. If GB and Detroit both lose, then the Bears have everything to play for. Not once did I say otherwise. Same with Philly. If Dallas loses, they have everything to play for. If you read the above AGAIN, I said "If Dallas wins, Philly has nothing to play for", which is 100% true.
Come on man.
1. The game would still mean plenty. The Bears are the 4th seed right now - but a win over Philly would move them into the 3rd spot - with possible implications in later rounds.
2. You want to rest a QB who has played a game and 1/2 over the last 2+ months. Makes no sense. He needs the work and the team needs the continuity. And if Cutler is in, then you obviously don't rest anyone on offense.
Now if there is a 2 or more TD lead/deficit going into the 4th quarter, then I say to sit them the rest of the game
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When do they announce what game theyre flexing for week 17? Is after this week's results? I always felt like they gave at least a week's notice.
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When do they announce what game theyre flexing for week 17? Is after this week's results? I always felt like they gave at least a week's notice.
IIRC, the league is required to give 12 days notice except during Weeks 16-17, when they only have to give 6 days notice. In other words, we'll know on Monday.
Someone feel free to correct me if that's wrong.
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1. The game would still mean plenty. The Bears are the 4th seed right now - but a win over Philly would move them into the 3rd spot - with possible implications in later rounds.
2. You want to rest a QB who has played a game and 1/2 over the last 2+ months. Makes no sense. He needs the work and the team needs the continuity. And if Cutler is in, then you obviously don't rest anyone on offense.
Now if there is a 2 or more TD lead/deficit going into the 4th quarter, then I say to sit them the rest of the game
It's a near fact, either team will trade a playoff berth over worrying about a seed right now. Zero doubt.
Yes, absolutely I want Cutler to rest, Briggs too, if it means nothing. 70 degrees, humid, downpours most of the game, why would a team risk a QB coming off an ankle and groin injury to play in that if it means nothing? I'm a Bears fan saying this to, it blows my mind how if you're a Packers fan, you'd ont see this as an integirty issue.
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IIRC, the league is required to give 12 days notice except during Weeks 16-17, when they only have to give 6 days notice. In other words, we'll know on Monday.
Someone feel free to correct me if that's wrong.
NBC will either announce it at the conclusion of Bears/Eagles or the league will announce it by 9am Monday morning.
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Rodgers supposedly out again on Sunday...although, I won't believe it completely until I actually see him in his civies on the sidelines.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10171386/aaron-rodgers-green-bay-packers-again (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10171386/aaron-rodgers-green-bay-packers-again)
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Rodgers supposedly out again on Sunday...although, I won't believe it completely until I actually see him in his civies on the sidelines.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10171386/aaron-rodgers-green-bay-packers-again (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10171386/aaron-rodgers-green-bay-packers-again)
Interesting. Last week he took some first team reps early in the week but then got none later on in the week. This week he's splitting reps. If he's not ruled inactive, I'd have a hard time seeing him not playing Sunday. We'll see this afternoon
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Interesting. Last week he took some first team reps early in the week but then got none later on in the week. This week he's splitting reps. If he's not ruled inactive, I'd have a hard time seeing him not playing Sunday. We'll see this afternoon
Flynn taking first team snaps today, Rodgers watching on the sideline.
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Rodgers ruled out
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It's a near fact, either team will trade a playoff berth over worrying about a seed right now. Zero doubt.
Yes, absolutely I want Cutler to rest, Briggs too, if it means nothing. 70 degrees, humid, downpours most of the game, why would a team risk a QB coming off an ankle and groin injury to play in that if it means nothing? I'm a Bears fan saying this to, it blows my mind how if you're a Packers fan, you'd ont see this as an integirty issue.
I agree with you on Briggs this week - coming off an injury, it is too much of a risk.
On the rest, I think we will still disagree.
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Just watched the presser. Coach McCarthy kept referring to an 'organizational decision' and gave lip service to his support but in reality I think he's pissed as hell.
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Just watched the presser. Coach McCarthy kept referring to an 'organizational decision' and gave lip service to his support but in reality I think he's pissed as hell.
He might be pissed...but I hope he's not pissed *at* the medical staff.
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Could be an interesting decision. If GB beats Pittsburgh behind a big game from Flynn and Rodgers is then cleared to play, does MM go back to him for the biggest game of the season even though he will have missed 8 weeks? I assume he would and not bat an eye, but at the same time, the team can't afford to have a slow start from a rusty QB.
Addition: Nevermind. Thinking about it more, Rodgers is playing if he's cleared. GB isn't going into the playoffs with Matt Flynn unless they absolutely have to.
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Could be an interesting decision. If GB beats Pittsburgh behind a big game from Flynn and Rodgers is then cleared to play, does MM go back to him for the biggest game of the season even though he will have missed 8 weeks? I assume he would and not bat an eye, but at the same time, the team can't afford to have a slow start from a rusty QB.
Addition: Nevermind. Thinking about it more, Rodgers is playing if he's cleared. GB isn't going into the playoffs with Matt Flynn unless they absolutely have to.
Yeah I think you're right. It has to be discussed... but then again, you can't sit your MVP.
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He might be pissed...but I hope he's not pissed *at* the medical staff.
My gut tells me he's pissed at Ted.
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My gut tells me he's pissed at Ted.
I think he is pissed at the whole situation in general. Why would tt want to sit Rodgers with the season on the line unless he had to. The bone isn't healed to the drs satisfaction, I think it is simple as that. The risk of serious longer term injury is still too great. You are correct though he is definitely pissed.
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When did Rodgers turn into the nfl version of derrick rose?
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When did Rodgers turn into the nfl version of derrick rose?
When he was medically cleared to play and just didn't because he had no muscle memory or something like that. Oh wait...
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Maybe his collarbone atrophied, hey?
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When did Rodgers turn into the nfl version of derrick rose?
A little different when you are talking about a broken bone in a violent sport. Has nothing to do with pain tolerance - strictly a case of whether the bone has healed or not healed yet.
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Sorry guys. Didn't think I needed teal
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Interesting talk out there about the lack of traditional ownership on the Packers side hurting their decision making down the stretch here.
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Interesting talk out there about the lack of traditional ownership on the Packers side hurting their decision making down the stretch here.
Decision making regarding what?
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Interesting talk out there about the lack of traditional ownership on the Packers side hurting their decision making down the stretch here.
No, they aren't gonna fire Ted Thompson. And he is the one that makes the football decisions. Doctors make medical decisions on broken bones no matter how team is owned or run.
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Specific decicision makers are in place no different than any other organization. Not like they need to put it to board vote. The only decision to make in this case is medical. The bone is not healed. That type of crack on the collar bone is an 8 to 10 week recovery. Its not hard to figure out.
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Interesting talk out there about the lack of traditional ownership on the Packers side hurting their decision making down the stretch here.
You'll need to spell it out for me.
Because the Jerry Jones model works so much better?
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Word is McCarthy and Rodgers are pissed at Thompson. Right or wrong, I have no clue on. McCarthy is pissed because he feel it should be his/Rodgers call. Thompson said Rodgers is not playing.
With no traditional ownership structure, the football decisions start end with Thompson. Some out there in WI and national media feel the power structure is a conflict here.
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Word is McCarthy and Rodgers are pissed at Thompson. Right or wrong, I have no clue on. McCarthy is pissed because he feel it should be his/Rodgers call. Thompson said Rodgers is not playing.
With no traditional ownership structure, the football decisions start end with Thompson. Some out there in WI and national media feel the power structure is a conflict here.
I would rather have the football decisions end with Thompson and not some owner who has no clue.
The Packers structure has shown over the past 20 years that clear definitions over who has authority works very well. The results speak for themselves.
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So what is your theory? That Rodgers could push the issue but he didn't really want to?
Figured it was exactly what dish is describing. Rodgers medically could play but the front office and doctors will not let him play. The bone is healed enough but is also more likely to be reinjured more seriously.
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The only fault I see is they are not up front with injuries. They could avoid a lot of this if they just told us what is going on. As far as Rodgers, what does the front office have to gain by not playing him? If there is risk of re injury, he shouldn't play.
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Quite simple to tell when a broken bone has healed fully. It's not McCarthy's decision or Thompson's - and not a pain issue - simply is the bone fully healed or not.
You don't send the future of the franchise out with a broken bone that is not fully healed especially in a vulnerable spot of the body.
I guess Bear fans aren't used to a proper decision making process (at least under Angelo - I expect Emery to be a lot smarter).
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Dish is about as level-headed football fan on this board. He isn't even advocating for a certain POV.
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I only shared what I heard. It's very difficult to argue the Packer way, and I'm a firm believer in its success. Just thought it was interesting to hear some media commenting on it. Ted Thompson can run any football team I cheer for any day of the week.
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There are multiple issues as work here one under the "organizations" control, the other not. First, is the fact that the organization has bungled this from a messaging standpoint from the beginning. They should have come out and said, Rodgers will play when he is medically cleared, no matter what coaches or the players think. This "Rodgers watch" every week opens them up to second guessing and speculation. The second is that because it is a bone, it heals at it's own pace and there is nothing they can do about it.
I do question the medical staff at times because they seem to have issues diagnosing and preventing injuries. How many hamstring injuries have they had in the last 2 years? May be crack pot, but I really do think they are being unnecessarily conservative here.
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There are multiple issues as work here one under the "organizations" control, the other not. First, is the fact that the organization has bungled this from a messaging standpoint from the beginning. They should have come out and said, Rodgers will play when he is medically cleared, no matter what coaches or the players think. This "Rodgers watch" every week opens them up to second guessing and speculation. The second is that because it is a bone, it heals at it's own pace and there is nothing they can do about it.
I do question the medical staff at times because they seem to have issues diagnosing and preventing injuries. How many hamstring injuries have they had in the last 2 years? May be crack pot, but I really do think they are being unnecessarily conservative here.
Because it's more important that fans don't question what is going on behind the scenes than it is to keep the upcoming opponent guessing as to who they will be facing at quarterback the next week until practices are done for the week...
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Because it's more important that fans don't question what is going on behind the scenes than it is to keep the upcoming opponent guessing as to who they will be facing at quarterback the next week until practices are done for the week...
Given the nature of the injury do you really think any opponents were "guessing" which QB would play? And McCarthy prides himself on "not playing games", and that's all this was.
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Cowboys doing everything possible to lose.
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Given the nature of the injury do you really think any opponents were "guessing" which QB would play? And McCarthy prides himself on "not playing games", and that's all this was.
If you think the Steelers heard that on Wednesday Rodgers was taking first team snaps and just said to themselves "Don't worry about Rodgers, let's gameplan solely for Flynn" then I think you're wrong. So to answer your question, yes. I don't think the Packers organization is as worried about the fans being disappointed when they find out Rodgers isn't playing as they are concerned with giving their opponent something extra to think about going into the weekend.
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This is polarizing to watch.
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Cowboys doing everything possible to lose.
They actually played well in the first half and 4th quarter....3rd quarter was a repeat of last week. Trailing by 9, they actually ran the ball. Balance, and they won.
Crazy
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Going into second halves in GB & Det, things getting interesting for Bears...
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You'll need to spell it out for me.
Because the Jerry Jones model works so much better?
Only Dallas has that model, and no it doesn't work. Most teams have a much better model setup.
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Wow, Lions done, Pack about to be on life support. Incredible..
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Wow, that penalty was HUGE.
Bears can win division tonight, STUNNING.
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I remember predicting, when Detroit was 6-3, that Detroit would finish closer to 7-9/ 8-8. The culture, the karma of this franchise is just astounding. Barry Sanders, wasted career. Calvin Johnson, following suit. On paper, the Lions SHOULD be 10-5. But paper doesn't measure heart, and the Lions simply don't have it. I don't think there will be a shake up of the roster, but I can almost that a 'For Sale' sign is going up in front of Jimmie's house. I look for the next coach to be one with the reputation of being a disciplinarian, for Stafford to get a new QB coach, for Detroit to spend their draft picks on a supplementary receiver and back-7 help.
But kudos, Lions, you have, as always, find a creative, outside-the-box way to lose.
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That last 30 seconds by the Packers was Cowboyesque....WTF where they doing. Forget the penalty, why are they running it with 20 seconds left and no timeouts? Why, with 10 seconds left didn't they spike the ball immediately to get two plays preserved...it was 2nd down. My son lost his mind...."son, now you know how dad feels the last 17 years with the Cowboys...it's time for your first shot of Whiskey"
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For those that said start times of these games don't matter...I rest my case. Kelly may play hard and play everyone, but if this is a two TD Bear lead in 4th, those guys are coming out.
If you're a Packer fan, you should be outraged this game was flexed. Gigantic advantage Bears.
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For those that said start times of these games don't matter...I rest my case. Kelly may play hard and play everyone, but if this is a two TD Bear lead in 4th, those guys are coming out.
If you're a Packer fan, you should be outraged this game was flexed. Gigantic advantage Bears.
I'm really not. Packers take care of business and it doesn't matter.
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That last 30 seconds by the Packers was Cowboyesque....WTF where they doing. Forget the penalty, why are they running it with 20 seconds left and no timeouts? Why, with 10 seconds left didn't they spike the ball immediately to get two plays preserved...it was 2nd down. My son lost his mind...."son, now you know how dad feels the last 17 years with the Cowboys...it's time for your first shot of Whiskey"
I don't think Flynn thought the clock would be running.
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Tower...the stories I could tell you?
Do you know Chuck Schmidt, former GM of the Lions during the Fontes era? His son works for me.....the Lions culture indeed. Can't think Schwartz survives. Two years ago in Indianapolis for the S B my wife and I were at a party with Garrett and Schwartz and hung out with them for awhile. My wife doesn't know who these guys are and I told her not to worry, both won't be head coaches within a year or so. Garrett still has a chance, but slim.
I remember predicting, when Detroit was 6-3, that Detroit would finish closer to 7-9/ 8-8. The culture, the karma of this franchise is just astounding. Barry Sanders, wasted career. Calvin Johnson, following suit. On paper, the Lions SHOULD be 10-5. But paper doesn't measure heart, and the Lions simply don't have it. I don't think there will be a shake up of the roster, but I can almost that a 'For Sale' sign is going up in front of Jimmie's house. I look for the next coach to be one with the reputation of being a disciplinarian, for Stafford to get a new QB coach, for Detroit to spend their draft picks on a supplementary receiver and back-7 help.
But kudos, Lions, you have, as always, find a creative, outside-the-box way to lose.
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I don't think Flynn thought the clock would be running.
Maybe, but that coaching staff had time when the announcement was made of the runoff of 10 seconds due to the penalty to get his attention. They have to be all over that. Brutal.
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I remember predicting, when Detroit was 6-3, that Detroit would finish closer to 7-9/ 8-8. The culture, the karma of this franchise is just astounding. Barry Sanders, wasted career. Calvin Johnson, following suit. On paper, the Lions SHOULD be 10-5. But paper doesn't measure heart, and the Lions simply don't have it. I don't think there will be a shake up of the roster, but I can almost that a 'For Sale' sign is going up in front of Jimmie's house. I look for the next coach to be one with the reputation of being a disciplinarian, for Stafford to get a new QB coach, for Detroit to spend their draft picks on a supplementary receiver and back-7 help.
But kudos, Lions, you have, as always, find a creative, outside-the-box way to lose.
With the Lions talent, they are just mistake after mistake. Five games they had leads in fourth quarter and lose them all? Tower, I feel your pain, even though I am a Ravens fan. Like to see the Lions make the playoffs, but....
Schwartz should be gone.
Shanahan probably gone
Rex Ryan rumored today to be gone.
Texans job is open.
Per Rich Gannon, Gruden may want Oakland job again (this time without Al Davis)
Cowboys lose next week, Garrett probably gone
Frazier/Schiano both on the brink.
This should be interesting.......
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It isn't pain. It only hurts if you have hope. It is the rock-solid conviction that Detroit will find ways to lose. Watching it from a standpoint of amused objectivity, waiting for this year's cast of characters to completely buy into the ethos that will, if you let it, provide hours of laughter, knowing it will end poorly. It is like being Wile E Coyote. No matter what you do, no matter how brilliant the plan, no matter how helpless the roadrunner, the anvil is still going to hit you in the head. The only question is whether they will find a creative way do deliver it that no one has ever seen or conceived before. I'm not a Cubs fan, but it has to be a lot like that.
Quick bit of Trivia. In the last 50 years, no Lions head coach has ever gone on to another NFL head coaching gig. Morninweg may break that streak, but I have my doubts.
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I feel for Tower, that sucks to end the season like this. I was darn near sure the Lions were a lock 7 weeks ago. You're a knowledgeable good fan too. Hope you have a good Christmas.
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Schwarz and Ryan will probably be recycled. Sooner or later.
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I'm not a Cubs fan, but it has to be a lot like that.
Quick bit of Trivia. In the last 50 years, no Lions head coach has ever gone on to another NFL head coaching gig. Morninweg may break that streak, but I have my doubts.
I'm guessing worse...the Lions have had talent over the years. The Cubs, certainly some years, but the Lions have been the "team that breaks through" pick seemingly every year where the Cubs usually aren't.
That's a pretty crazy trivia stat.
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At this rate, Bears will rest everyone because they are on verge of getting toasted tonight.
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It isn't pain. It only hurts if you have hope. It is the rock-solid conviction that Detroit will find ways to lose. Watching it from a standpoint of amused objectivity, waiting for this year's cast of characters to completely buy into the ethos that will, if you let it, provide hours of laughter, knowing it will end poorly. It is like being Wile E Coyote. No matter what you do, no matter how brilliant the plan, no matter how helpless the roadrunner, the anvil is still going to hit you in the head. The only question is whether they will find a creative way do deliver it that no one has ever seen or conceived before. I'm not a Cubs fan, but it has to be a lot like that.
Quick bit of Trivia. In the last 50 years, no Lions head coach has ever gone on to another NFL head coaching gig. Morninweg may break that streak, but I have my doubts.
My best friend is a Lions fan and it is eerie how he has already said to me everything you just said.
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That last 30 seconds by the Packers was Cowboyesque....WTF where they doing. Forget the penalty, why are they running it with 20 seconds left and no timeouts? Why, with 10 seconds left didn't they spike the ball immediately to get two plays preserved...it was 2nd down. My son lost his mind...."son, now you know how dad feels the last 17 years with the Cowboys...it's time for your first shot of Whiskey"
And this is why injuries hurt. Neither Barclay or Flynn would be on the field except for injuries. Gonna be a lot of mental mistakes as well as less talent on the field when you only have 6 starters on offense on the field.
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At this rate, Bears will rest everyone because they are on verge of getting toasted tonight.
It will be interesting. Rest players or try to stay away from Seattle until NFC championship game.
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What a buzzkill.
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http://www.freep.com/article/20131209/SPORTS01/312090102/1049/sports01/Lions-Burleson-Homeless-man-heckled-me-while-doing-charity-work
I don't know if this story made the rounds nationally, but it cracked me up. Lions WR Nate Burleson is doing charity work at a soup kitchen. Homeless guy walks up and says.......you guys suck. Same old Lions.
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It isn't pain. It only hurts if you have hope. It is the rock-solid conviction that Detroit will find ways to lose. Watching it from a standpoint of amused objectivity, waiting for this year's cast of characters to completely buy into the ethos that will, if you let it, provide hours of laughter, knowing it will end poorly. It is like being Wile E Coyote. No matter what you do, no matter how brilliant the plan, no matter how helpless the roadrunner, the anvil is still going to hit you in the head. The only question is whether they will find a creative way do deliver it that no one has ever seen or conceived before. I'm not a Cubs fan, but it has to be a lot like that.
Quick bit of Trivia. In the last 50 years, no Lions head coach has ever gone on to another NFL head coaching gig. Morninweg may break that streak, but I have my doubts.
I feel for you, but since its the lions really not that much.
Is Schwartz gone? You never know with them, they kept fontes (Fred flinstone) and millen way past what they should have
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I don't see how Schwarz keeps his job. Millen fired coaches rapidly. Marty, Mooch, Marinelli. The current Lions GM team has assembled decent talent. Jimmie didn't deliver. The math is pretty easy.
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I don't see how Schwarz keeps his job. Millen fired coaches rapidly. Marty, Mooch, Marinelli. The current Lions GM team has assembled decent talent. Jimmie didn't deliver. The math is pretty easy.
How much say does the ford family have, they seem to hang on to guys too long
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Cowboys/Eagles flexed to Sunday night next week.
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Cowboys/Eagles flexed to Sunday night next week.
GB/CHI at noon or 3:25 next week?
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GB/CHI at noon or 3:25 next week?
If bears win tonight it's noon. lose, it's 3 pm game.
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Wow, that penalty was HUGE.
Bears can win division tonight, STUNNING.
I think what is even more stunning is that nobody has pulled the plug on the Packers in the NFC North. How many 2nd lives are the Bears and Lions going to give them? What a joke of a division this has become.
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And this is why injuries hurt. Neither Barclay or Flynn would be on the field except for injuries. Gonna be a lot of mental mistakes as well as less talent on the field when you only have 6 starters on offense on the field.
Yes, but coaches have to coach there. I don't know, but I would put that on McCarthy and the coaches there. I like McCarthy so I'm not banging on him, but that one just seemed odd. The play call prior to that was odd...no timeouts and they are running the ball with 20 second left...that would come from the coaches, not Flynn.
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Good luck to Pack next Sunday. Both teams can thank Lions for gift wrap job of a title. No clue who wins next Sunday, both have overcome significant injuries, neither deserves to host a playoff game. Bears had/have two chances to win the division. If they can't win one of them, don't deserve it.
Sadly, don't deserve it anyway.
Hope Rodgers, Matthews, Lacy play. Better if both teams can put main guys in there.
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Do you realize if Seattle loses to St. Louis, and Niners win out, the Seahawks would be the five seed?
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If you're a Packer fan, you should be outraged this game was flexed. Gigantic advantage Bears.
Ummm ... no.
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Ummm ... no.
Huh?
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Do you realize if Seattle loses to St. Louis, and Niners win out, the Seahawks would be the five seed?
I give the NFL credit, teams that have no chance still come to play. Unlike the NBA where teams tank at the end. The RedSKINS played very hard today, the Eagles, Jaguars, Bills, etc.
A lot of teams were out of it, but they came to play anyway.
It is crazy to think Seattle could end up the 5th seed, but the Rams are playing well so it wouldn't really shock me if that happened.
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I give the NFL credit, teams that have no chance still come to play. Unlike the NBA where teams tank at the end. The RedSKINS played very hard today, the Eagles, Jaguars, Bills, etc.
A lot of teams were out of it, but they came to play anyway.
It is crazy to think Seattle could end up the 5th seed, but the Rams are playing well so it wouldn't really shock me if that happened.
It's incredible to me that it's possible at this point.
Playoffs are going to be wild.
Cardinals should move back to Chicago to claim North crown.
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Good luck to Pack next Sunday. Both teams can thank Lions for gift wrap job of a title. No clue who wins next Sunday, both have overcome significant injuries, neither deserves to host a playoff game. Bears had/have two chances to win the division. If they can't win one of them, don't deserve it.
Sadly, don't deserve it anyway.
Hope Rodgers, Matthews, Lacy play. Better if both teams can put main guys in there.
A tie would be a fitting ending for the NFC North.
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A tie would be a fitting ending for the NFC North.
Amen to that.
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If you think the Steelers heard that on Wednesday Rodgers was taking first team snaps and just said to themselves "Don't worry about Rodgers, let's gameplan solely for Flynn" then I think you're wrong. So to answer your question, yes. I don't think the Packers organization is as worried about the fans being disappointed when they find out Rodgers isn't playing as they are concerned with giving their opponent something extra to think about going into the weekend.
If you think the Steelers sit around listening to press conferences like us then I think you are wrong. Any NFL team has a lot more inside scoop on the other teams than the common man. Besides that same evening Packer's journalists like Jason Wilde were pointing out that Rodgers didn't take any 11 on 11 snaps which would be a significant indicator of not playing. So again, these press conferences are largely for the public and the Packers have fallen on their face. Lastly, if the Packers announced at the beginning, this is medical decision and he will not play until medically cleared you can preserve the "surprise" for other teams but save a whole lot of angst in the fan base. Now there is uncertainty and you've got a coach and a player saying, well I should be playing but I can't and nobody willing to now point a finger at the medical staff.
Just a much smarter way to handle this than they have.
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Huh?
I meant none of it matters. Each team just has to do what its players and coaches are paid to do.
What was the Bears' great advantage? Knowing that a win gets them the division title? The Eagles' knowing that the game meant relatively little to them?
You just gotta play. The Packers had a zillion chances to already have the division wrapped up. It would have been lame for them to blame the flex decision.
In the end, they don't have to blame the flex decision because the Bears must have thought the game was Monday night; they certainly forgot to show up Sunday.
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If the Packers had won yesterday, I think that blocked FG call would be a major talking point today.
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If the Packers had won yesterday, I think that blocked FG call would be a major talking point today.
Except that the refs missed the original fumble, which Tramon Williams would have scored a touchdown on.
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I meant none of it matters. Each team just has to do what its players and coaches are paid to do.
What was the Bears' great advantage? Knowing that a win gets them the division title? The Eagles' knowing that the game meant relatively little to them?
You just gotta play. The Packers had a zillion chances to already have the division wrapped up. It would have been lame for them to blame the flex decision.
In the end, they don't have to blame the flex decision because the Bears must have thought the game was Monday night; they certainly forgot to show up Sunday.
This is a joke, right?
This is a serious question...are you a Bears fan? My assumption is yes. Either A) You're a Bears fan or B) You know nothing about how the NFL works.
There was a reason that story was buried by all the networks and media, the NFL knows they royally f'd up.
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This is a joke, right?
This is a serious question...are you a Bears fan? My assumption is yes. Either A) You're a Bears fan or B) You know nothing about how the NFL works.
There was a reason that story was buried by all the networks and media, the NFL knows they royally f'd up.
Does the NFL usually not allow such things? I just dont remember it coming up before.
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Does the NFL usually not allow such things? I just dont remember it coming up before.
I'll say this, there is 100% reason why the NFL went out of it's way on Sunday Night Football last night to be as transparent as possible about the Week 17 schedule, it was not a coincidence in the least. They announced it at half time, and then went over it again postgame. Hell, they even used CBS' and Fox's music.
NFL got very lucky and avoided a near catastrophe. NFL decided prior to Lions/Ravens that the Bears/Eagles game would be flexed. Once the Lions lost, that created a worst case scenario that nearly played itself out last night.
If Bears/Eagles had stayed at noon, it would have been played in the same window as Cowboys/Skins. Both the Bears and Eagles were enabled with huge competitive advantages knowing the outcomes of the other NFC games. To ignore that is ridiculous (not directed at Sultan or a few others). If Chip Kelly had wanted to, he could have started Matt Barkley, Bryce Brown, sat everyone, and no one would have thought otherwise. Bears may still have well lost even in that scenario, but the fact that it happened in the first place was wrong.
There's a reason Browns/Steelers, Jets/Dolphins, Ravens/Bengals are all being played at the same time on Sunday. CBS/NFL were stuck with Chiefs/Chargers at 3:25 though. NFL wanted to flex all three of those games to 3:25, but it would have left CBS with only Jags/Colts and Texans/Titans in the early window. Only benefit is Chargers need help anyway and have to win to get in.
No one thinks it's a big deal now because of the outcome of last night's game. No one thinks it's a big deal because the Pack and Lions both had chances of their own. But from an integrity of the league standpoint, you better believe the Packers front office was pissed, and rightfully so. They should send Chip Kelly a Christmas present.
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As far as Sunday goes, I'm guessing the packers are going to be without Rodgers, Lacy, and Matthews, and the Bears will win easily. It's nice to not care though, since both of these teams stink on ice anyway, and have as much have o going to the Super Bowl as I do.
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Except that the refs missed the original fumble, which Tramon Williams would have scored a touchdown on.
Original fumble on that play or earlier in the game? Just asking, I only watched parts of the second half of your game.
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As far as Sunday goes, I'm guessing the packers are going to be without Rodgers, Lacy, and Matthews, and the Bears will win easily. It's nice to not care though, since both of these teams stink on ice anyway, and have as much have o going to the Super Bowl as I do.
As a Bears fan, I can tell you, the Bears don't do anything easily.
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Original fumble on that play or earlier in the game? Just asking, I only watched parts of the second half of your game.
Prior to the blocked fg, Pittsburgh fumbled and the packers recovered for a touchdown. The fumbled was called down by contact and was reviewed. It was overturnrd giving GB the ball but they couldn't give them the touchdown. If the refs would have called it correctly it would have been a packer td to begin with and the blocked fieldgoal would have never happened
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Prior to the blocked fg, Pittsburgh fumbled and the packers recovered for a touchdown. The fumbled was called down by contact and was reviewed. It was overturnrd giving GB the ball but they couldn't give them the touchdown. If the refs would have called it correctly it would have been a packer td to begin with and the blocked fieldgoal would have never happened
Gotcha
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Tower, is your coach in some sort of denial mood?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10187382/jim-schwartz-detroit-lions-call-season-failure
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Duh.
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Romo season over.
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Tower, is your coach in some sort of denial mood?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10187382/jim-schwartz-detroit-lions-call-season-failure
Saw he cussed out some fans yesterday or something as well
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Detroit intercepted Manning at the end of regulation. Tie game. Had the ball around their own 25 with 2 TO's and 23 seconds. Decided to run a trap play. Lion fans energetically voiced their opinion. Schwarzie got caught on camera turning and swearing at the fans.
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If Bears/Eagles had stayed at noon, it would have been played in the same window as Cowboys/Skins. Both the Bears and Eagles were enabled with huge competitive advantages knowing the outcomes of the other NFC games. To ignore that is ridiculous (not directed at Sultan or a few others). If Chip Kelly had wanted to, he could have started Matt Barkley, Bryce Brown, sat everyone, and no one would have thought otherwise. Bears may still have well lost even in that scenario, but the fact that it happened in the first place was wrong.
There's a reason Browns/Steelers, Jets/Dolphins, Ravens/Bengals are all being played at the same time on Sunday. CBS/NFL were stuck with Chiefs/Chargers at 3:25 though. NFL wanted to flex all three of those games to 3:25, but it would have left CBS with only Jags/Colts and Texans/Titans in the early window. Only benefit is Chargers need help anyway and have to win to get in.
No one thinks it's a big deal now because of the outcome of last night's game. No one thinks it's a big deal because the Pack and Lions both had chances of their own. But from an integrity of the league standpoint, you better believe the Packers front office was pissed, and rightfully so. They should send Chip Kelly a Christmas present.
I still disagree with you on this. If the Bear game was left at noon, then GB could have sat many of it's starters as the game would have been meaningless. Maybe then the Pack would have Matthews and a healthy Lacy for the game on Sunday. So while you think the NFL screwed up - it turns out it was a huge advantage for the Bears.
I also think that maybe you underestimate the difference between a 3rd and 4th seed. 3rd seed will probably play a 6th and 2nd - 4th seed probably a 5th and 1st
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This is a joke, right?
This is a serious question...are you a Bears fan? My assumption is yes. Either A) You're a Bears fan or B) You know nothing about how the NFL works.
There was a reason that story was buried by all the networks and media, the NFL knows they royally f'd up.
I'm not a Bears fan. And that isn't a joke. Next question.
The only ones who royally f'd up were the Packers, Bears and Lions!
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I'm not a Bears fan. And that isn't a joke. Next question.
The only ones who royally f'd up were the Packers, Bears and Lions!
Merry Christmas Rosenhaus...let's go Bears.
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Fascinating stat - 30 Packers have missed at least 1 game due to injury this year. 3 0 !!!
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Fascinating stat - 30 Packers have missed at least 1 game due to injury this year. 3 0 !!!
Dallas Cowboys have had 19 different defensive lineman....that's JUST defensive linemen due to injuries
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Dallas Cowboys have had 19 different defensive lineman....that's JUST defensive linemen due to injuries
Those aren't injuries though - they're just allergic to Jerry Jones
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Dallas Cowboys have had 19 different defensive lineman....that's JUST defensive linemen due to injuries
But 19 different defensive lineman haven't missed a game. They DRESSED 19 different defensive lineman, because they kept on bringing in different backups. Don't get me wrong, their defense has been maligned injury wise, but your numbers and phrasing are trying to overstate the issue.
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But 19 different defensive lineman haven't missed a game. They DRESSED 19 different defensive lineman, because they kept on bringing in different backups. Don't get me wrong, their defense has been maligned injury wise, but your numbers and phrasing are trying to overstate the issue.
Actually, I was trying to point out how one specific position has been decimated, the most in the NFL. No other team has had to use more defensive linemen than the Cowboys due to injury. That's all I was saying.
Actually has nothing to do with dressed, but actual injuries. Where I think your point is more valid is the Cowboys have been remarkably healthy elsewhere.
The Packers, as an overall team, have been more decimated and it's not close. They are the 2nd most injured team this year in total man games lost.
The Tampa Bay Bucs are the most hurt, at least through Sunday. Packers second, Giants 3rd.
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Actually, I was trying to point out how one specific position has been decimated, the most in the NFL. No other team has had to use more defensive linemen than the Cowboys due to injury. That's all I was saying.
Actually has nothing to do with dressed, but actual injuries. Where I think your point is more valid is the Cowboys have been remarkably healthy elsewhere.
The Packers, as an overall team, have been more decimated and it's not close. They are the 2nd most injured team this year in total man games lost.
The Tampa Bay Bucs are the most hurt, at least through Sunday. Packers second, Giants 3rd.
Out of curiosity, do you think the Cowboys problem was the Defensive line injuries or injuries/inexperience in the secondary or Sean Lee being injured....of course an equal all of the above is a legitimate answer.
Part of the problems is the cowboys history of over spending on free-agency has hurt their depth considerably.
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Out of curiosity, do you think the Cowboys problem was the Defensive line injuries or injuries/inexperience in the secondary or Sean Lee being injured....of course an equal all of the above is a legitimate answer.
Part of the problems is the cowboys history of over spending on free-agency has hurt their depth considerably.
I have felt for many years our depth is an issue, but the defensive line was key. If you don't put pressure on the QB, the secondary is going to struggle. The losses there have absolutely killed the defense.
And it's not just free agency that we overspend, we overspend for our own guys. Some think it is an admirable trait by Jones to "take care" of his guys, problem is that's old world thinking before the cap. You can't do that anymore. You can't give Demarcus Ware the contract we gave him, he had already peaked. Sure, resign him but not for those dollars.
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Rodgers playing Sunday. Probably didn't want his toughness questioned anymore by fans, media, etc.
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Rodgers playing Sunday. Probably didn't want his toughness questioned anymore by fans, media, etc.
Or the scan done this week showed enough bone density in the area.
And I doubt if any fans or media people are as tough as the weakest NFL'er (except kickers - and even that is questionable) ;)
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Game on - no excuses, just good hard hitting football in the cold to see who wins the North!!
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Game on - no excuses, just good hard hitting football in the cold to see who wins the North!!
"good" ???? - you do realize that one defense or the other is on the field all the time. But I guess we can always expect the unexpected from them.
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Or the scan done this week showed enough bone density in the area.
And I doubt if any fans or media people are as tough as the weakest NFL'er (except kickers - and even that is questionable) ;)
Maybe the scan showed that. Guess we'll never know.
Kickers are tough - seen McAfee highlights?
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Maybe the scan showed that. Guess we'll never know.
Kickers are tough - seen McAfee highlights?
By football standards - no. But, compared to most people, yes.
The Garo Ypremian's and Chester Marcol's of the world are pretty much gone.
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Good showing by the nfc north in the pro bowl...
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http://www.youtube.com/v/0iqLhdInGrk
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Skins/Giants and Lions/Vikes should be viewed only by convicted felons.
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Skins/Giants and Lions/Vikes should be viewed only by convicted felons.
Sadly it is the only game on in this market and I have shut the TV off so I will not lose my mind.
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Sadly it is the only game on in this market and I have shut the TV off so I will not lose my mind.
11 min left on Vikes game. The way they are playing in the second half, they should shut the lights out on the dome in about another minute.
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Patterson>Harvin
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Patterson>Harvin
No.
Patterson > injured Harvin
Not to say I don't like Patterson - could easily be a top-5 receiver with a good QB.
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No.
Patterson > injured Harvin
Not to say I don't like Patterson - could easily be a top-5 receiver with a good QB.
In a heartbeat, the Seahawks would trade Harvin back for Patterson.
Younger, cheaper, not injured.
Yes.
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In a heartbeat, the Seahawks would trade Harvin back for Patterson.
Younger, cheaper, not injured.
Yes.
Harvin is a bit of head case a la Randy Moss.
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In a heartbeat, the Seahawks would trade Harvin back for Patterson.
Younger, cheaper, not injured.
Yes.
Absolutely - and so would I. For the 3 reasons you gave.
But Patterson still has a long way to go to equal what Harvin did the last couple years in Minny. Harvin was without doubt one of the top 3 receivers in the league last year before getting hurt.
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Bear down. Packer fan in the bar im at being obnoxious and trying to start fights with Bears fans. I would feel no sympathy if Rodgers broke his collarbone again.
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Very bad throw and decision by Rodgers.
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If you're Pack, gotta feed Lacy. Rodgers is Cutler-esque so far.
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These refs are a joke
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I guess the skirts are going on the QBs now by the refs. That was pretty bad.
I still don't understand how the punt wasn't over turned either. I've seen more calls this year that the replay suggests one thing and the ref does something else leaving the announcers dumbfounded if the refs are watching the same replays under the hood.
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I guess the skirts are going on the QBs now by the refs. That was pretty bad.
I still don't understand how the punt wasn't over turned either. I've seen more calls this year that the replay suggests one thing and the ref does something else leaving the announcers dumbfounded if the refs are watching the same replays under the hood.
Not being a homer here, but both calls in this game have been horrible.
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This game is really pissing me off. I am so fed up with the Packers and their fans. Nothing good comes out of that city.
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Terrible job by Joe Anderson not picking up the ball.
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Not being a homer here, but both calls in this game have been horrible.
They got the last call right....not sure what the Bears were doing. Play the whistle.
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Bears falling apart. Not even making the packers earn the playoffs
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Not being a homer here, but both calls in this game have been horrible.
No you are being a homer. You are better than that.
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They got the last call right....not sure what the Bears were doing. Play the whistle.
100% correct. Sadly Lovie taught his guys to always pick those up.
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No you are being a homer.
Huh?
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No you are being a homer. You are better than that.
How was he being a homer? Pretty sure you're wrong here.
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This game is really pissing me off. I am so fed up with the Packers and their fans. Nothing good comes out of that city.
:'(
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I'm not sure how someone can argue the roughing call and lack of reversal on the touchback as anything but terrible calls, but whatever.
Odd, ugly first half. Rodgers has not been good, not in sync, which is expected. Huge turnover by Jeffrey and the fumble TD difference in the game.
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:'(
Yea, and youre the worst of them. I am being butt hurt right now I completely admit that but I have never had a good experience with a packer fan. Never.
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Bear down. Packer fan in the bar im at being obnoxious and trying to start fights with Bears fans. I would feel no sympathy if Rodgers broke his collarbone again.
You know you have hit the bottom when you are rooting for broken bones on the other team. Idiotic statement - not just for the injury, but Rodgers is rusty as can be.
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They got the last call right....not sure what the Bears were doing. Play the whistle.
You're right. #50 walked right past the ball. Should have picked it up and scored a TD. 14 point turnaround.
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You know you have hit the bottom when you are rooting for broken bones on the other team. Idiotic statement - not just for the injury, but Rodgers is rusty as can be.
I stand by it. Only three people I want to see injured. Rodgers, Matthews and Suh.
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I'm not sure how someone can argue the roughing call and lack of reversal on the touchback as anything but terrible calls, but whatever.
Odd, ugly first half. Rodgers has not been good, not in sync, which is expected. Huge turnover by Jeffrey and the fumble TD difference in the game.
Rodgers has been completely like the guy all you Bears fans defend to death. He has made 1 awful throw/decision and missed 1 throw 6" too high. Other than that we've had no issue moving the ball, just haven't finished drives. Other than a nice little fumble.
As far as the touchback, I didn't watch any of the replays. However, with the ruling on the field being that it was a touchback, there needed to be conclusive evidence that he did not step on the line. From the one angle I saw before leaving my seat you couldn't conclusively tell either way (that his foot was or was not in contact with the end line), so based on that one angle the ruling on the field would stand. Maybe they showed a different angle that I didn't see. At the end of the day, the Packers got 0 points out of that drive and the Bears got 7 points on their drive following it, so that's as good as you can get for the Bears.
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I'm not sure how someone can argue the roughing call and lack of reversal on the touchback as anything but terrible calls, but whatever.
Odd, ugly first half. Rodgers has not been good, not in sync, which is expected. Huge turnover by Jeffrey and the fumble TD difference in the game.
Come on dish. They had a chance to over turn the punt obviously they didn't see enough to do so. Rogers was clearly down and mccllenan had plenty of time to pull up, it was close but there are questionable calls all through out the game.
Rodgers has made a few bad throws and 1bad decision, but overall he looks sharp. The bears should feel fortunate, this could easily be a 2 touchdown lead.
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Yea, and youre the worst of them. I am being butt hurt right now I completely admit that but I have never had a good experience with a packer fan. Never.
Too bad you aren't able to hook up with this chick, hey?
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Rodgers has made a few bad throws and 1bad decision, but overall he looks sharp. The bears should feel fortunate, this could easily be a 2 touchdown lead.
Yeah, because their one TD was such an awesome offensive play!
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This game is really pissing me off. I am so fed up with the Packers and their fans. Nothing good comes out of that city.
Lol
Thanks for the giggles
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I stand by it. Only three people I want to see injured. Rodgers, Matthews and Suh.
Have some class. You are the one being a poor fan.
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Come on dish. They had a chance to over turn the punt obviously they didn't see enough to do so. Rogers was clearly down and mccllenan had plenty of time to pull up, it was close but there are questionable calls all through out the game.
Rodgers has made a few bad throws and 1bad decision, but overall he looks sharp. The bears should feel fortunate, this could easily be a 2 touchdown lead.
NFL Twitter and I disagree with you strongly.
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I stand by it. Only three people I want to see injured. Rodgers, Matthews and Suh.
Never root for injuries
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If I were the Bears, I would do what the Cowboys did the first half against GB. Run, run, run. Doesn't matter that you are behind, just run all over them. Not sure why these teams make it so damn hard.
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Come on dish. They had a chance to over turn the punt obviously they didn't see enough to do so. Rogers was clearly down and mccllenan had plenty of time to pull up, it was close but there are questionable calls all through out the game.
Rodgers has made a few bad throws and 1bad decision, but overall he looks sharp. The bears should feel fortunate, this could easily be a 2 touchdown lead.
Disagree. In real time, that's not roughing. Slow motion distorts all that stuff.
On the punt, no one but the ref understands that one. Just like the ref in the Bengals game a few weeks ago that apparently didn't see the Colt touch him when he was down, despite 3 angles showing he did and an announcing crew that to this day is still asking what porn video he was watching under the hood rather than the actual replay. :D
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I like it when I'm right.....in case anyone here didn't know that. ;)
All you have to do is run, run, run, run. This isn't hard, but too many offensive coordinators and idiot QB's changing plays at the line sure want to make it that way.
GB can't stop the run, so run it like crazy until the can. I'd say the same for Green Bay, they should run it down the Bears throats all day long.
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Disagree. In real time, that's not roughing. Slow motion distorts all that stuff.
On the punt, no one but the ref understands that one. Just like the ref in the Bengals game a few weeks ago that apparently didn't see the Colt touch him when he was down, despite 3 angles showing he did and an announcing crew that to this day is still asking what porn video he was watching under the hood rather than the actual replay. :D
Thank you.
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Rodgers has been completely like the guy all you Bears fans defend to death. He has made 1 awful throw/decision and missed 1 throw 6" too high. Other than that we've had no issue moving the ball, just haven't finished drives. Other than a nice little fumble.
As far as the touchback, I didn't watch any of the replays. However, with the ruling on the field being that it was a touchback, there needed to be conclusive evidence that he did not step on the line. From the one angle I saw before leaving my seat you couldn't conclusively tell either way (that his foot was or was not in contact with the end line), so based on that one angle the ruling on the field would stand. Maybe they showed a different angle that I didn't see. At the end of the day, the Packers got 0 points out of that drive and the Bears got 7 points on their drive following it, so that's as good as you can get for the Bears.
If Cutler threw a red zone pick, had a ball tipped and picked, didn't finish drives, burned timeouts because the play clock ran out, you'd be ripping him to shreds. That was Rodgers first half right there.
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3rd and one against the worst run defensive in fb. Run the damn ball McCarthy. This half is on you McCarthy , you blow it, I am okay with a new coach.
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Neither team should pass rest of the game.
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If Cutler threw a red zone pick, had a ball tipped and picked, didn't finish drives, burned timeouts because the play clock ran out, you'd be ripping him to shreds. That was Rodgers first half right there.
oh come on. there is NO WAY wades would do that... ::)
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I realize many else aren't paying attention, but was in going on in San Diego is inexecusable.
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TT has had almost a decade to shore up the D....the same crap every year: no run D, cb's hung out to dry.
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I like it when I'm right.....in case anyone here didn't know that. ;)
All you have to do is run, run, run, run. This isn't hard, but too many offensive coordinators and idiot QB's changing plays at the line sure want to make it that way.
GB can't stop the run, so run it like crazy until the can. I'd say the same for Green Bay, they should run it down the Bears throats all day long.
Well they stopped it back to back on that drive. I think the 67 yard pass play was a better call than run, run, run after the Pack stopped run, run, but whatever.
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If Cutler threw a red zone pick, had a ball tipped and picked, didn't finish drives, burned timeouts because the play clock ran out, you'd be ripping him to shreds. That was Rodgers first half right there.
That's the point. Bears fans pointing out Rodgers is playing horribly when Rodgers is playing the exact same way Jay Cutler plays every single game.
Can Bears fans now stop crying about the lack of an overturn? Things even out over the course of a game.
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What a throw/catch. Clutch as hell.
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Plus, played pissed poorly by Williams. The Pack's defense sucks ass.
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What a throw/catch. Clutch as hell.
Lotta football to be played.
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Lotta football to be played.
No argument here. Wild game.
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Someone 'splain to me why the Pack didn't go for 2?
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Someone 'splain to me why the Pack didn't go for 2?
Plenty of football to be played.
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Someone 'splain to me why the Pack didn't go for 2?
Very poor decision.
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I'm figurin' there was nothin' to lose.
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what's going on in San Diego?
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Unreal, wow.
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what's going on in San Diego?
Some pandas are fuuckin' some elephants at the zoo.
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Unreal, wow.
Fun game.
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Massive secondary throw, clutch play by Rodgers, props.
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Next drive determines Cutler's future. Score, new contract. Fail to score, no contract and the scourge of Chicago. Lucky he has GB's d in front of him.
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Next drive determines Cutler's future. Score, new contract. Fail to score, no contract and the scourge of Chicago. Lucky he has GB's d in front of him.
steve bartman is a huge packer fan right now.
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awful play calling there. 10 seconds left, 1 timeout left and you opt for the hail mary???
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Congrats to Green Bay, ended up as fun game, good luck in playoffs.
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The Packers can burn in hell. Wish them nothing but the worst next week.
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And that's why AR is the best in the business.
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The Packers can burn in hell. Wish them nothing but the worst next week.
Jay Cutler is a turd. Lousy team player, and no leadership skills. Bears deserve better.
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The Packers can burn in hell. Wish them nothing but the worst next week.
Hey, if you knew anything about football you would have been calling for cutler and Marshall to break their collarbones.
So please go ahead and re-sign Jeff George (oops I mean Cutler) for 10 more years. And keep Trestmann around for 10 more too.
Yup Marshall and Alshon are the best combo in the league. Big drops in the 4th quarter are meaningless.
Finally, I'll watch the Pack next week - you can watch the Bears
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The Packers can burn in hell. Wish them nothing but the worst next week.
What were you saying about packer fans.
Another chapter in a great rivalry. Neither team would do anything in the playoffs anyway with those defenses, but it was an entertaining game
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A pretty interesting story hitting the interwebs about AR in the last 6 hours. As a Cowboys fan, I remember going through similar stuff but never with a specific person coming forward.
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You talkin' 'bout gay rumors?
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After further review.......................THE BEARS STILL SUCK!!
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our lines are going to get chopped up next week by SF...again.
Will sell the playoff tickets for right price.
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A pretty interesting story hitting the interwebs about AR in the last 6 hours. As a Cowboys fan, I remember going through similar stuff but never with a specific person coming forward.
What story?
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You talkin' 'bout gay rumors?
No homo..but if he wants to dispel he should release a sex tape, great conversation starter/entice-er with a freaky hot chick/porn star.
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You talkin' 'bout gay rumors?
A friend of mine, who is gay and works for the NFL, sent me an email earlier today.
A bunch of stuff online out there in the last few hours, but who knows.
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A friend of mine, who is gay and works for the NFL, sent me an email earlier today.
A bunch of stuff online out there in the last few hours, but who knows.
http://www.newnownext.com/aaron-rodgers-green-bay-packers-quarterback-allegedly-outed-by-scorned-ex-boyfriend/12/2013/
Here's one for what its worth.
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And that's why AR is the best in the business.
He made a nice play, though I don't know how Chicago lost this game quite frankly. Pretty poor play throughout the contest.
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He made a nice play, though I don't know how Chicago lost this game quite frankly. Pretty poor play throughout the contest.
Well if Green Bay had continued to try to run the ball down their throats per your instructions the Bears would have won.
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Well if Green Bay had continued to try to run the ball down their throats per your instructions the Bears would have won.
Wrong
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The Packers can burn in hell. Wish them nothing but the worst next week.
They probably will get their ass kicked. But between this game and the Cowboys' game, this has been one memorable year.
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Legs will say its "doable."
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The Packers can burn in hell. Wish them nothing but the worst next week.
:'(
Gotta suck to be a Bears (or Lions/Vikings) fan. Packers finally have an awful season riddled with awful defense and a plethora of injuries, go 8-7-1, and...still win the NFC North. Comical.
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Wrong
On their last two drives (both touchdowns to bring them from 8 down to win the game) the Packers ran it down the Bear's throat to the tune of 17 yards on 9 carries. Rodgers completed 8 of 11 for 150 yards and scrambled once for 5 yards. So yeah, they won it by running it down the Bear's throats. Not.
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:'(
Gotta suck to be a Bears (or Lions/Vikings) fan. Packers finally have an awful season riddled with awful defense and a plethora of injuries, go 8-7-1, and...still win the NFC North. Comical.
Not at all actually. Bears lost their QB and two best defenders to significant injury time. Bears defense is barely NFL worthy, let alone playoff worthy.
Lions? Sure, I'll give you that.
If anything, Pack should have run away with the division if they had a competent back up weeks ago. Not sure why you harp on that point of it sucking, because it doesn't at all.
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Regardless of who won that game San Francisco's defense is much better than Bears or packers defense. I am not disappointed as a Bears fan. Dumb plays cost them the game, Bears had many wins slip away all season because of the same..dumb plays. Redskins and Vikings games off the top of my head should have been wins.
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Your assumption, Lenny, is to know what would have happened on plays there weren't run. I know you think you are good, and even can tell the future, but you can't. No one knows, impossible to know because every play is different, every outcome different. On a play where it is passed, no one knows if that were a run how it would turn out and vice versa.
Thus, you are wrong.
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The Lions are who they have been for as long as I have been aware of football. A team that underperforms its talent and finds ways to lose. This season is no more painful than any other. More comical, but not more painful.
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They probably will get their ass kicked. But between this game and the Cowboys' game, this has been one memorable year.
Sometimes better to be lucky than good...definitely some gifts there....oh never mind, you don't believe in that. LOL
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Not at all actually. Bears lost their QB and two best defenders to significant injury time. Bears defense is barely NFL worthy, let alone playoff worthy.
Lions? Sure, I'll give you that.
If anything, Pack should have run away with the division if they had a competent back up weeks ago. Not sure why you harp on that point of it sucking, because it doesn't at all.
I'd be pretty disappointed if my biggest rival, a divisional opponent who wins the division more often than not (at least recently), lost their starting QB, a top 2 QB in the NFL, for 8 (including the 1st Bears game since he only played 1 drive) weeks - half of a season - and went 2-5-1, including 6 straight weeks without a win, went 8-7-1 (what will probably be their worst record in a 10+ year span in a few years), and they still win the division.
The Packers should have run away with the Division weeks ago? Now that is comical. QB out for half of the season, 2 of our top 3 receiving targets out for over half the season (Finley and Cobb), 4th best receiving option out for multiple weeks, first quality running back we've had in years out for multiple weeks, etc. The fact that they were anywhere near the top of the Division is dumbfounding.
Also, people need to stop saying Marshall and Jeffries are the best 1-2 receiving punch in the NFL. They are certainly very, very good. Not saying they aren't at all. But I would take any 2 of Nelson, Cobb, and Jones over them any day of the week. Nelson himself might make up the best 1-2 punch in the league. Then again, with what we've seen from Jennings in Minnesota this year, maybe it really is just that Aaron Rodgers is that good.
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Not many people picked the Bears to do much more than they did.
But the Lions? Yeah. But the Bears were pretty much what people thought they were.
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Eddy Lacy showed up to camp in shape... (full disclosure, i really liked the pick for the pack)
Before: (http://chicago.barstoolsports.com/files/2013/07/20130414__357487213463c00c2e0f6a706700b745p1.jpg)
After: (http://chicago.barstoolsports.com/files/2013/07/ku-xlarge2.jpg)
Good call.
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Cat looks like Raji. Would bet the house he's into grains.
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I'd be pretty disappointed if my biggest rival, a divisional opponent who wins the division more often than not (at least recently), lost their starting QB, a top 2 QB in the NFL, for 8 (including the 1st Bears game since he only played 1 drive) weeks - half of a season - and went 2-5-1, including 6 straight weeks without a win, went 8-7-1 (what will probably be their worst record in a 10+ year span in a few years), and they still win the division.
The Packers should have run away with the Division weeks ago? Now that is comical. QB out for half of the season, 2 of our top 3 receiving targets out for over half the season (Finley and Cobb), 4th best receiving option out for multiple weeks, first quality running back we've had in years out for multiple weeks, etc. The fact that they were anywhere near the top of the Division is dumbfounding.
Also, people need to stop saying Marshall and Jeffries are the best 1-2 receiving punch in the NFL. They are certainly very, very good. Not saying they aren't at all. But I would take any 2 of Nelson, Cobb, and Jones over them any day of the week. Nelson himself might make up the best 1-2 punch in the league. Then again, with what we've seen from Jennings in Minnesota this year, maybe it really is just that Aaron Rodgers is that good.
Sorry, not sure what else to tell you, but it's all true.
I love Nelson and Cobb, but clearly they are much better because of ARod.
The fact that they were in the division race was dumbfounding? What the hell division were you watching? Come on man.
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Also, people need to stop saying Marshall and Jeffries are the best 1-2 receiving punch in the NFL. They are certainly very, very good. Not saying they aren't at all. But I would take any 2 of Nelson, Cobb, and Jones over them any day of the week. Nelson himself might make up the best 1-2 punch in the league. Then again, with what we've seen from Jennings in Minnesota this year, maybe it really is just that Aaron Rodgers is that good.
Wow. really hoping you're just trying to troll with this. Otherwise, you're not nearly as intelligent as you think you are.
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Wow. really hoping you're just trying to troll with this. Otherwise, you're not nearly as intelligent as you think you are.
Not at all. You watch Jordy Nelson recently? He was hard to miss today...
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Not at all. You watch Jordy Nelson recently? He was hard to miss today...
Actually, nevermind. You watch Jordy Nelson at all, since coming to the Packers? Tell me a receiver who has had more touchdowns than Jordy in the past 3 years...
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Thomas and Dekker are also a better 1-2 combo than Marshall and Jeffreys.
Sorry, not sure what else to tell you, but it's all true.
I love Nelson and Cobb, but clearly they are much better because of ARod.
The fact that they were in the division race was dumbfounding? What the hell division were you watching? Come on man.
That's the point. I'd be upset that the Packers actually have a really bad season (by their standards) and my team still can't take advantage and win the Division.
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Thomas and Dekker are also a better 1-2 combo than Marshall and Jeffreys.
That's the point. I'd be upset that the Packers actually have a really bad season (by their standards) and my team still can't take advantage and win the Division.
Please do me a solid and call Boers and Bernstein tomorrow, I'm begging you. Thank you in advance.
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Actually, nevermind. You watch Jordy Nelson at all, since coming to the Packers? Tell me a receiver who has had more touchdowns than Jordy in the past 3 years...
Is that the product of the system and QB, or because of Nelson? I don't know, I'm asking.
By the way, Jordy has 30 in the last 3 years...not even the most in his own division. Megatron has 33
Dez Bryant 33 (still playing tonight), Gronkowski 32 (despite missing massive games), Dekker has 31....I stopped looking....Nelson is up there for sure, but also helps to have Rodgers as QB and an offense prior to this year that didn't know the run existed. ;)
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Thomas and Dekker are also a better 1-2 combo than Marshall and Jeffreys.
That's the point. I'd be upset that the Packers actually have a really bad season (by their standards) and my team still can't take advantage and win the Division.
because the bears had a good, injury-free season? please.
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111121224/3254982-4173396489-50550.jpg)
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I love Jordy Nelson, but no GM in the NFL, CFL, World League, USFL, Arena League would trade Marshall or Jeffrey (not Jeffreys) straight up for Nelson or Decker. Not. A. Chance.
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I love Jordy Nelson, but no GM in the NFL, CFL, World League, USFL, Arena League would trade Marshall or Jeffrey (not Jeffreys) straight up for Nelson or Decker. Not. A. Chance.
Winner winner.
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I've been listening to The Score tonight. The whining is entertaining
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Your assumption, Lenny, is to know what would have happened on plays there weren't run. I know you think you are good, and even can tell the future, but you can't. No one knows, impossible to know because every play is different, every outcome different. On a play where it is passed, no one knows if that were a run how it would turn out and vice versa.
Thus, you are wrong.
You are hilarious. Your strategy was failing. Doing the opposite worked. It's how they won the game. NOBODY who has even a passing knowledge of football thinks the Packers go for 172 yards those final two drives running it down the Bear's throats. It wasn't happening and it wasn't going to happen.
YOU were the one who claims to be good. YOU were the one who said he could predict the future. Run, run, run. (Both teams). Forget the pass and you'll win. Well, the Bears said nuts to that, threw it well and got an 8 point lead. Then the Pack did the same, came back and won by throwing the ball.
Thus, you were wrong not once, but twice. LOL
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To further prove this point, check out Nelson's stats with the clown car of Wallace/Tolzien/Flynn. 1 TD. 1 game over 100 yds.
Go check out Marshall/Jeffrey stats with McCown.
The defense rests.
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I've been listening to The Score tonight. The whining is entertaining
They have no one to blame but themselves. Dropping a sure interception. Letting Cobb get behind them for the TD. Not emphasizing the run enough....24 rushes to Green Bay's 34 and massive time of possession advantage for Green Bay. You run the ball not just to gain yardage, but to control clock, keep your awful defense off the field and wear the other guy out.
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Not at all. You watch Jordy Nelson recently? He was hard to miss today...
I think you meant he was hard to tackle ;D
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To further prove this point, check out Nelson's stats with the clown car of Wallace/Tolzien/Flynn. 1 TD. 1 game over 100 yds.
Go check out Marshall/Jeffrey stats with McCown.
The defense rests.
So you're saying that McCown is on an equal playing field with Wallace and Tolzien? Flynn I can give you. But McCown compared to Wallace and Tolzien?! C'mon, man. You know football better than that. That rests nothing.
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Thomas and Dekker are also a better 1-2 combo than Marshall and Jeffreys.
That is a dumb statement. Very dumb.
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They have no one to blame but themselves. Dropping a sure interception. Letting Cobb get behind them for the TD. Not emphasizing the run enough....24 rushes to Green Bay's 34 and massive time of possession advantage for Green Bay. You run the ball not just to gain yardage, but to control clock, keep your awful defense off the field and wear the other guy out.
I thought GB was playing the cowboys again.
It was Trestmann's arrogance just as much as the drops by Marshall and Jeffry that lost this game. He's just so much smarter than stooping to run the ball against a team that cannot stop the run.
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I've been listening to The Score tonight. The whining is entertaining
Love listening to Doug and OB when the Pack gets a win over the Bears. 'Dougie, you have to know the goddamn defense when you break the huddle on 4th down.'
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So you're saying that McCown is on an equal playing field with Wallace and Tolzien? Flynn I can give you. But McCown compared to Wallace and Tolzien?! C'mon, man. You know football better than that. That rests nothing.
Dude, what are you talking about? What is so difficult to comprehend here. You've made a couple ridiculous comments that have been blown to pieces.
I'll talk slow here...
Marshall and Jeffrey are better at receiving the football than Jordy Nelson. If McCown, Cutler, Rodgers, Wallace, Tolzien, my Grandma, my three year old twins are QB'ing, it does not matter who is throwing.
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I thought GB was playing the cowboys again.
It was Trestmann's arrogance just as much as the drops by Marshall and Jeffry that lost this game. He's just so much smarter than stooping to run the ball against a team that cannot stop the run.
Yup, everyone is so pass happy because of the rules and the big plays. It's not just the number of plays, its when you do them. If you look at the Bears, they ran 24 times and passed 24 times so people will say there is balance. OK. Problem is that it a lot of it comes down to situations and when you run it and when you don't.
Cowboys tonight...3rd and 2...they pass. Incomplete. Second time they get 3rd and 2...they pass. Incomplete. Teams just don't value time of possession as much as they used to and moving the chains.
65% of the time a pass play has a positive outcome. 88% of the time a running play does. By no means does that mean you don't throw it, you do and you do often, but you do it in balance and situational play calling. Control the ball, move the chains, protect your terrible defense.
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You are hilarious. Your strategy was failing. Doing the opposite worked. It's how they won the game. NOBODY who has even a passing knowledge of football thinks the Packers go for 172 yards those final two drives running it down the Bear's throats. It wasn't happening and it wasn't going to happen.
YOU were the one who claims to be good. YOU were the one who said he could predict the future. Run, run, run. (Both teams). Forget the pass and you'll win. Well, the Bears said nuts to that, threw it well and got an 8 point lead. Then the Pack did the same, came back and won by throwing the ball.
Thus, you were wrong not once, but twice. LOL
Strategy worked fine, that's why they ran it as much as they did....much more than the Bears, despite trailing a good chunk of the second half. I don't know what is so hard for you to process, but you can't decide what the outcome of a play is going to be if that play isn't run. It would be like you saying if Wilson takes the shot rather than Gardner you just KNOW the Wilson shot would go in. You don't, you simply don't but pretend all you want to be able to decipher what would have happened on plays that never existed...sounds like pretend land because that's what it is.
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hMkjVFd_Co8/TJ9clITFfAI/AAAAAAAAAHo/xt_ejZEanhI/s1600/chif.gif)
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Dude, what are you talking about? What is so difficult to comprehend here. You've made a couple ridiculous comments that have been blown to pieces.
I'll talk slow here...
Marshall and Jeffrey are better at receiving the football than Jordy Nelson. If McCown, Cutler, Rodgers, Wallace, Tolzien, my Grandma, my three year old twins are QB'ing, it does not matter who is throwing.
What am I talking about? There's a quote there for you, coming from yourself.
I'll talk slow here...
You said that you can conclude that Jeffrey and Marshall are better wide receivers than Jordy Nelson because they put up better numbers with Josh McCown behind center vs. what Nelson put up with Tolzien/Wallace/Flynn behind center. You wrote that clear as day. There's even a quote. Not sure why you're confused and asking what I'm talking about.
What I am talking about is to say that that the numbers Marshall and Jeffrey put up with (a better than Jay Cutler) Josh McCown behind center for 6 weeks compared to what Nelson put up with 1 week of Wallace, 3 weeks of Tolzien, and 3 weeks of Flynn is absolutely absurd. You know too much about football to make such a dumb statement. You're the one who brought up who is throwing them the ball, not me. Good luck to your 3 year old twins.
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Dude, what are you talking about? What is so difficult to comprehend here. You've made a couple ridiculous comments that have been blown to pieces.
I'll talk slow here...
Marshall and Jeffrey are better at receiving the football than Jordy Nelson. If McCown, Cutler, Rodgers, Wallace, Tolzien, my Grandma, my three year old twins are QB'ing, it does not matter who is throwing.
No - I would rate Marshall ahead of Nelson - but Jeffry? C'mon. You're a smart football guy. I think you know better.
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What am I talking about? There's a quote there for you, coming from yourself.
I'll talk slow here...
You said that you can conclude that Jeffrey and Marshall are better wide receivers than Jordy Nelson because they put up better numbers with Josh McCown behind center vs. what Nelson put up with Tolzien/Wallace/Flynn behind center. You wrote that clear as day. There's even a quote. Not sure why you're confused and asking what I'm talking about.
What I am talking about is to say that that the numbers Marshall and Jeffrey put up with (a better than Jay Cutler) Josh McCown behind center for 6 weeks compared to what Nelson put up with 1 week of Wallace, 3 weeks of Tolzien, and 3 weeks of Flynn is absolutely absurd. You know too much about football to make such a dumb statement. You're the one who brought up who is throwing them the ball, not me. Good luck to your 3 year old twins.
My head hurts. Also my kids are great, thanks.
If Jordy Nelson is so good, as YOU stated...I'll repeat, as YOU stated, shouldn't he put up big numbers no matter who is at QB? Dude, you keep making yourself look like a fool, seriously, why don't you take a breather champ.
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No - I would rate Marshall ahead of Nelson - but Jeffry? C'mon. You're a smart football guy. I think you know better.
100% yes. That's not a knock on Nelson either.
Salary, age, potential all matter.
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My head hurts. Also my kids are great, thanks.
If Jordy Nelson is so good, as YOU stated...I'll repeat, as YOU stated, shouldn't he put up big numbers no matter who is at QB? Dude, you keep making yourself look like a fool, seriously, why don't you take a breather champ.
With Scott Tolzien and Seneca Wallace? Haha OK.
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Strategy worked fine, that's why they ran it as much as they did....much more than the Bears, despite trailing a good chunk of the second half. I don't know what is so hard for you to process, but you can't decide what the outcome of a play is going to be if that play isn't run. It would be like you saying if Wilson takes the shot rather than Gardner you just KNOW the Wilson shot would go in. You don't, you simply don't but pretend all you want to be able to decipher what would have happened on plays that never existed...sounds like pretend land because that's what it is.
Until they had to pass (last 4 plays of the game when I assume even you and Woody Hayes would have put it in the air) the Bears ran 44 plays - 24 runs (55%) and 20 passes (45%) The Packers ran 73 plays - 34 runs (47%) and 39 passes (53%). So the Packers passed a much higher % of the time than the Bears did.
As for your convoluted basketball comparison, it's nonsensical. Here's a better example. Say MU is playing against a team with a very poor 3 point shooting defense. Before the game you say, "Shoot the 3, shoot the 3, shoot the 3. They can't stop it. We're down 8 with 10 minutes left. On our last 20 possessions we try 8 threes and miss them all but drive the lane 12 times, make 10 baskets and win at the buzzer. I would say thank God we started taking it to the basket. You would say, we still might have won if we had launched 3s on all 20 possessions. Possible. Anything (almost) is possible. But highly unlikely and very stupid strategy.
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You talkin' 'bout gay rumors?
If you remember, this Summer there was supposed to be a MAJOR announcement of a player coming out, along with several others. The NFL was gearing up for it....four in total according to Brandon Ayanbadejo of the Ravens. http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/4/5/4186668/gay-nfl-players-announcment-brendon-ayanbadejo
At the last minute, it fell through and Aaron was supposedly one of the four. That's what is coming out now...again, who knows if true but this is what has been reported.
http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/84464268.html
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My head hurts. Also my kids are great, thanks.
If Jordy Nelson is so good, as YOU stated...I'll repeat, as YOU stated, shouldn't he put up big numbers no matter who is at QB? Dude, you keep making yourself look like a fool, seriously, why don't you take a breather champ.
If you think that Nelson should be putting up equal or better numbers with Tolzien under center as Marshall did with McCown, and you think Jeffery and Marshall are better wideouts than Nelson, then explain to me how Nelson had more receptions and more receiving yards alone today than Marshall and Jeffery had combined. That's weird...
I can tell you 1 thing, Nelson would not have dropped that 3rd and 17 ball that Jeffery did in the 4th quarter, and he would not have dropped the 2nd last pass of the game that Marshall did.
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If you remember, this Summer there was supposed to be a MAJOR announcement of a player coming out, along with several others. The NFL was gearing up for it....four in total according to Brandon Ayanbadejo of the Ravens. http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/4/5/4186668/gay-nfl-players-announcment-brendon-ayanbadejo
At the last minute, it fell through and Aaron was supposedly one of the four. That's what is coming out now...again, who knows if true but this is what has been reported.
http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/84464268.html
I'd rather be straight and lose than be gay and win.
Apologies to white men can't jump.
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If you think that Nelson should be putting up equal or better numbers with Tolzien under center as Marshall did with McCown, and you think Jeffery and Marshall are better wideouts than Nelson, then explain to me how Nelson had more receptions and more receiving yards alone today than Marshall and Jeffery had combined. That's weird...
I can tell you 1 thing, Nelson would not have dropped that 3rd and 17 ball that Jeffery did in the 4th quarter, and he would not have dropped the 2nd last pass of the game that Marshall did.
Can I send you a mirror so you can ask yourself these questions?
I'm not sure. You said Nelson/Cobb are the best. By virtue of that, especially without Cobb, Nelson (since he is the best) should put up huge numbers. As you stated, with limited other WR/TE options, Wallace and Tolzien should be throwing to Nelson every time. The Pack picked those guys as their back up QB's, not me. He didn't put up numbers with backup QB's. Marshall/Jeffrey did.
Since today was apparently the only game that ever mattered, would Nelson have made that TD catch Marshall made? No.
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If you think that Nelson should be putting up equal or better numbers with Tolzien under center as Marshall did with McCown, and you think Jeffery and Marshall are better wideouts than Nelson, then explain to me how Nelson had more receptions and more receiving yards alone today than Marshall and Jeffery had combined. That's weird...
I can tell you 1 thing, Nelson would not have dropped that 3rd and 17 ball that Jeffery did in the 4th quarter, and he would not have dropped the 2nd last pass of the game that Marshall did.
You mean the leaping catch over a defender? You're calling that a drop and you think Jordy Nelson would have made that catch? You continue to be a joke when it comes to the Packers. Also, as a matter of fact, much like Marshall, Nelson DID drop a pass that was low and behind him on the 3rd down play right before the Cobb TD.
Gotta hand it to the Packers. They did what they needed to do to win, but it's tough to see this one as anything other than the Bears gave one away. James Anderson not picking up (or at least falling on) the football, Conte letting an INT go through his arms, the secondary blowing the coverage on the biggest play of the season. Playoff teams don't do those things and that's why the Bears are going home.
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Can I send you a mirror so you can ask yourself these questions?
I'm not sure. You said Nelson/Cobb are the best. By virtue of that, especially without Cobb, Nelson (since he is the best) should put up huge numbers. As you stated, with limited other WR/TE options, Wallace and Tolzien should be throwing to Nelson every time. The Pack picked those guys as their back up QB's, not me. He didn't put up numbers with backup QB's. Marshall/Jeffrey did.
Since today was apparently the only game that ever mattered, would Nelson have made that TD catch Marshall made? No.
So Marshall made a nice catch? Congratulations to him. It's much like Jay Cutler. Can Marshall make a play here or there that Jordy can't? Sure. I'll give you that. But if it's 3rd and 7 and I need one guy to make a play for me, do I want Marshall or Jordy on my team? Jordy, without a question. That's why he had 167 receiving yards today.
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You mean the leaping catch over a defender? You're calling that a drop and you think Jordy Nelson would have made that catch? You continue to be a joke when it comes to the Packers. Also, as a matter of fact, much like Marshall, Nelson DID drop a pass that was low and behind him on the 3rd down play right before the Cobb TD.
Gotta hand it to the Packers. They did what they needed to do to win, but it's tough to see this one as anything other than the Bears gave one away. James Anderson not picking up (or at least falling on) the football, Conte letting an INT go through his arms, the secondary blowing the coverage on the biggest play of the season. Playoff teams don't do those things and that's wy the Bears are going home.
I absolutely am calling that a drop. The defender touched neither Jeffery nor the football. Absolutely have to make that catch. That is nothing but a drop. Great throw by Cutler.
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So Marshall made a nice catch? Congratulations to him. It's much like Jay Cutler. Can Marshall make a play here or there that Jordy can't? Sure. I'll give you that. But if it's 3rd and 7 and I need one guy to make a play for me, do I want Marshall or Jordy on my team? Jordy, without a question. That's why he had 167 receiving yards today.
I guess since Nelson's drop was on 3rd and 8, you're giving him a pass?
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Thought this was pretty funny.
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I guess since Nelson's drop was on 3rd and 8, you're giving him a pass?
Definitely. Jordy's drop led to the play that won the game. Jeffery's and Marshall's contributed to the Bear's loss :)
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On an unrelated note, how do the Browns fire their head coach after 1 season, a season in which they traded away their 1 big name (who is proving to not be all that great of an NFL running back) and had absolutely no talent on the roster? I'd be more worried about the GM...
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So Marshall made a nice catch? Congratulations to him. It's much like Jay Cutler. Can Marshall make a play here or there that Jordy can't? Sure. I'll give you that. But if it's 3rd and 7 and I need one guy to make a play for me, do I want Marshall or Jordy on my team? Jordy, without a question. That's why he had 167 receiving yards today.
Dude, I love Jordy, he can play for my team any day.
If you prefer him over Marshall, that's fine, whatever. Nelson is much more valuable to Green Bay than he would be on say the Jets. Marshall/Jeffrey would have similar value on the Jets. If you're a Packer fan, just enjoy Nelson's ability and go with it
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Marshall's put up huge numbers as a #1 for a long time.
Jordy had a little drop in production when he became #1 receiver. Both are good but I'd give edge to Marshall.
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On an unrelated note, how do the Browns fire their head coach after 1 season, a season in which they traded away their 1 big name (who is proving to not be all that great of an NFL running back) and had absolutely no talent on the roster? I'd be more worried about the GM...
Because they're the Browns (a racist name by the way)
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Eagles should have gone for two there.
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Eagles should have gone for two there.
Disagree, they did the right thing. Make Dallas score a TD and a 2 point conversion just to tie you. The way Dallas offense is going, that would be very difficult.
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Disagree, they did the right thing. Make Dallas score a TD and a 2 point conversion just to tie you. The way Dallas offense is going, that would be very difficult.
You are correct. Always take the automatic 1 up 7.
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Disagree, they did the right thing. Make Dallas score a TD and a 2 point conversion just to tie you. The way Dallas offense is going, that would be very difficult.
Ended up working out, however, you have to look at value of possessions.
At that juncture, Pokes only had a max of two possessions left in the game. If you go for 2 and get it, you still control the game. Dallas has to score on both possessions, one of which has to be a TD.
I give you it's not conventional, but being up 9 with 6 mins left is huge. Not many coaches would do it, but its more than worth considering there.
Sorry about your Pokes.
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Ended up working out, however, you have to look at value of possessions.
At that juncture, Pokes only had a max of two possessions left in the game. If you go for 2 and get it, you still control the game. Dallas has to score on both possessions, one of which has to be a TD.
I give you it's not conventional, but being up 9 with 6 mins left is huge. Not many coaches would do it, but its more than worth considering there.
Sorry about your Pokes.
I'm not....it's become so routine it's hard to even care that much anymore. That is so sad to say...I was a kid that used to work for this team when their training camp was in my home town. But it's the same story each and every year. Some great talent at some positions, below average talent at others, no depth, and an owner that wants to be the star of the show. That creates chaos, distractions, dumb personnel moves and is a perfect recipe for mediocrity. Yet I keep coming back for more, but I don't let it kill me like it used to. I just chuckle.
I still think it is the right call to not go for 2. It's a percentage play and Kelly was playing the percentages. The worst that could happen to him was he was in a tie.
The right move is to fire Jason tomorrow. I don't know if JJ can pull the trigger. I like JG, super nice guy, very smart, but doesn't have the leadership qualities needed for that position to take on the owner, to control his team and to guide them. Of course, JJ won't hire anyone that fits that role either.
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My head hurts. Also my kids are great, thanks.
If Jordy Nelson is so good, as YOU stated...I'll repeat, as YOU stated, shouldn't he put up big numbers no matter who is at QB? Dude, you keep making yourself look like a fool, seriously, why don't you take a breather champ.
Think Larry Fitzgerald with the parade of clowns last year or Greg Jennings this year with Ponder
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Marshall's put up huge numbers as a #1 for a long time.
Jordy had a little drop in production when he became #1 receiver. Both are good but I'd give edge to Marshall.
Despite having Wallace, Tolzien, and Flynn throwing to him for half the season, he set a career high in receptions and had his 2nd best year in yards.
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Think Larry Fitzgerald with the parade of clowns last year or Greg Jennings this year with Ponder
Josh Gordon and Andre Johnson would like to speak to you...
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Ladies Ladies Ladies..... enough with the bickering... there are two facts that we know after tonight... the Pack won the division yet again and the Bears will watch the playoffs from home YET AGAIN.... that's it.... no need for all the extracurriculars but Bears fans we could use some help on D next week against San Fran if you're offering :D
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Ladies Ladies Ladies..... enough with the bickering... there are two facts that we know after tonight... the Pack won the division yet again and the Bears will watch the playoffs from home YET AGAIN.... that's it.... no need for all the extracurriculars but Bears fans we could use some help on D next week against San Fran if you're offering :D
You're right and I actually was hoping the Pack would lose this week as either team is a 1 and done. I'm worried now that making the playoffs and, god forbid, winning a game may mask the coaching problems.
Capers has to go. We continue to have many many plays with guys out of position game after game - above and beyond the fact that we have no one that can tackle. And the linebackers are a joke. Are they ever in position to make a good tackle?
But it's not just Capers. Micah Hyde has played very well as the kickoff returner, so what do they do today? Change the return scheme entirely.
The Bears had to be jumping for joy when they saw Khalil Bell back there on kickoffs. So first, you basically give up your best returner, but then to add insult to injury, you have one less blocker.
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I don't know if Mallett is the answer, but I think if the Pats are going to trade him, it'd have to be this offseason. He'll be 26 going into next year, free agent after 2014 season. No idea if he'd be good or not, but if a team misses out on Bridgwater/Hundley/Mariotta, he'd be at least an inexpensive alternative (minus draft pick compensation).
I said this back in October, and it looks like it's gonna happen.
Mallet to Cleveland.
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I'm telling everyone... it says so much that McCarthy has so little faith in our defense that he kicks the extra point to be down 1 point in the fourth quarter with a putrid defense. The thinking is that if the Bears go down the field and score a TD we're still down 1 possession. I think it's definitely a sign Capers will be fired after this year. There's really no other rational thought to not go for 2 in that situation unless you have zero faith in your defense.....
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I said this back in October, and it looks like it's gonna happen.
Mallet to Cleveland.
It will be interesting because there are a lot of decent QBs coming out this year. Should be quite a few in the first 2 rounds so it's all about picking the right guy as a couple will turn out to be pretty good and a couple will be busts.
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It will be interesting because there are a lot of decent QBs coming out this year. Should be quite a few in the first 2 rounds so it's all about picking the right guy as a couple will turn out to be pretty good and a couple will be busts.
Cleveland fired Chud now so they can interview McDaniels asap while NE is on bye.
Belief is Lombardi/Banner believe they can win now (I agree) and will look for a veteran QB instead of drafting a rookie.
My guess is if a deal is made, the Browns will swap the rights to Colts first rounder for Pats first rounder, assuming Pats go further in playoffs, and a mid/late round pick in 2015.
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Cleveland fired Chud now so they can interview McDaniels asap while NE is on bye.
Belief is Lombardi/Banner believe they can win now (I agree) and will look for a veteran QB instead of drafting a rookie.
My guess is if a deal is made, the Browns will swap the rights to Colts first rounder for Pats first rounder, assuming Pats go further in playoffs, and a mid/late round pick in 2015.
Deals are hard to predict in NFL, but it makes sense.
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I'd rather be straight and lose than be gay and win.
Apologies to white men can't jump.
So let's see, you're from Illinois, but reside in Madison. Sounds like you're conflicted, a'ina?
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Can I send you a mirror so you can ask yourself these questions?
I'm not sure. You said Nelson/Cobb are the best. By virtue of that, especially without Cobb, Nelson (since he is the best) should put up huge numbers. As you stated, with limited other WR/TE options, Wallace and Tolzien should be throwing to Nelson every time. The Pack picked those guys as their back up QB's, not me. He didn't put up numbers with backup QB's. Marshall/Jeffrey did.
Since today was apparently the only game that ever mattered, would Nelson have made that TD catch Marshall made? No.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but you are overstating it a bit. The gap between Nelson and Marshall is not as wide as you are making it out to be.
You are wrong about Nelson not making that catch. Maybe you are not paying attention but Nelson has made some un-fricking believable catches this year. I have watched the NFL for a long time and some of his catches are right up there with the best and he does it on a regular basis. Go back and look for yourself, but go ahead and under rate Nelson, most teams have and most teams continue to get torched.
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So let's see, you're from Illinois, but reside in Madison. Sounds like you're conflicted, a'ina?
I'm forced to live in Madison. I'm a Bears fan from birth. I'm a missionary behind enemy lines.
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Rod Chudzinski is a very good offensive coach..give him someone with a little talent and composure at qb..... Browns look like a train wreck and putting your chips on Ryan Mallett??
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I'm forced to live in Madison. I'm a Bears fan from birth. I'm a missionary behind enemy lines.
It may be more enjoyable takin' a different position.
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You're right and I actually was hoping the Pack would lose this week as either team is a 1 and done. I'm worried now that making the playoffs and, god forbid, winning a game may mask the coaching problems.
Capers has to go. We continue to have many many plays with guys out of position game after game - above and beyond the fact that we have no one that can tackle. And the linebackers are a joke. Are they ever in position to make a good tackle?
But it's not just Capers. Micah Hyde has played very well as the kickoff returner, so what do they do today? Change the return scheme entirely.
The Bears had to be jumping for joy when they saw Khalil Bell back there on kickoffs. So first, you basically give up your best returner, but then to add insult to injury, you have one less blocker.
Never hope for my team to lose, especially against the Bears, but you're right, Capers has to go.
I really hope TT focuses this draft on the defense, especially the line. Our run D was atrocious all year. I also hope we keep Flynn as a backup QB. He clearly knows the system and is comfortable in it. With a full training camp he will be a very serviceable backup.
All that said, if Rogers doesn't go down for 8 games this was probably an 11-5 (maybe even better) team and Cheeseheads wouldn't be as restless about Dom and the defense.
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The back end of the Packers' defense is at least as troubling as the D line. Morgan Burnett is average at best, and M.D. Jennings/Jeronne McMillan/Chris Banjo/Sean Richardson had me flashing back to the Mark Roman days. TT needs to draft at least one safety.
FWIW, I like Richardson enough as a developmental project, but he's not good enough now to be playing more than a few snaps.
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The back end of the Packers' defense is at least as troubling as the D line. Morgan Burnett is average at best, and M.D. Jennings/Jeronne McMillan/Chris Banjo/Sean Richardson had me flashing back to the Mark Roman days. TT needs to draft at least one safety.
FWIW, I like Richardson enough as a developmental project, but he's not good enough now to be playing more than a few snaps.
First time since the 1950s that Packers safeties failed to have at least 1 interception on the season. There were a couple big plays, like the one where Shields got burned and should have had help over the top or on several of Forte's big runs where Burnett could've made a play and didn't.
Let's not forget Morgan's lateral to Shields after the fumble. What in the world was he thinking. One of the most baffling plays this whole season and Sam was certainly not expecting it.
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I don't think the line is nearly the problem that the linebackers are. Brad Jones is serviceable but limited. Lattimore doesn't look like he knows what he is doing. Nick Perry is hovering near total bust category.
And as I have said for the last couple of years, Nick Collins was SOOOO much better than people give him credit for. They haven't been able to come close to replacing him, and I doubt that they will be able to any time soon.
And thank good Raji turned down the Packers contract extension. He'll be signing with the Vikings sometime this off season.
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I don't think the line is nearly the problem that the linebackers are. Brad Jones is serviceable but limited. Lattimore doesn't look like he knows what he is doing. Nick Perry is hovering near total bust category.
And as I have said for the last couple of years, Nick Collins was SOOOO much better than people give him credit for. They haven't been able to come close to replacing him, and I doubt that they will be able to any time soon.
And thank good Raji turned down the Packers contract extension. He'll be signing with the Vikings sometime this off season.
Its the middle linebackers and safeties that are the problem. Don't be surprised if TT goes into free agency for a safety or interior lineman. I think Pickett is done or at most a pay reduction to be backup, Raji may be gone as well and maybe jolly. They will need a fat block eating lineman next year.
Too early to call Perry a bust. He has looked good at times this year. He is battling a foot injury that they say is limiting him.
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Lions fire Schwartz
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I don't think the line is nearly the problem that the linebackers are. Brad Jones is serviceable but limited. Lattimore doesn't look like he knows what he is doing. Nick Perry is hovering near total bust category.
And as I have said for the last couple of years, Nick Collins was SOOOO much better than people give him credit for. They haven't been able to come close to replacing him, and I doubt that they will be able to any time soon.
And thank good Raji turned down the Packers contract extension. He'll be signing with the Vikings sometime this off season.
Wow, three fair arguments that each of the three facets of the Packers' defense is the most disappointing. The more I think about it, how much is on Dom and how much is on TT? I'm not necessarily defending Dom, I think he's failed to adapt his scheme to fit his personnel since Woodson declined and left, but there is a lot of pretty bad personnel on defense. But for Clay, most his first round defensive selections (Harrell, Hawk, Raji - I'm omitting Perry and Jones for now as I think they need more time to play healthy to really evaluate) have been disappointing. And yes, I'm including Raji for looking like a shadow of his 2010 self for 3 years now.
TT has done a good job building depth in the later rounds (Hyde, House, Daniels, Neal, etc... all fine mid round picks to round out a defense), but there is just not a lot of front line talent there.
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Lions fire Schwartz
Too soon. Needed more time ;)
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Wow, three fair arguments that each of the three facets of the Packers' defense is the most disappointing. The more I think about it, how much is on Dom and how much is on TT? I'm not necessarily defending Dom, I think he's failed to adapt his scheme to fit his personnel since Woodson declined and left, but there is a lot of pretty bad personnel on defense. But for Clay, most his first round defensive selections (Harrell, Hawk, Raji - I'm omitting Perry and Jones for now as I think they need more time to play healthy to really evaluate) have been disappointing. And yes, I'm including Raji for looking like a shadow of his 2010 self for 3 years now.
TT has done a good job building depth in the later rounds (Hyde, House, Daniels, Neal, etc... all fine mid round picks to round out a defense), but there is just not a lot of front line talent there.
I go back and forth on this. Capers didn't suddenly get bad. But maybe the scheme was just too complex without veteran help in the secondary? I mean, how can the Packers continue to screw up basics like run lane assignments?
And I do think TT has obviously drafted OK. I like Hawk...yeah he was drafted high but is solid, never hurt, and knows where to go. Raji was dominant for awhile, but like a lot of big guys has a short life span. Yeah...Harrell was bad.
The lack of a top notch safety....and a decent rush OLB from the other side are I think where the biggest problems are.
So I don't know. My guess is that if Capers is gone, that you will find a similar 3/4 guy to replace him that keeps most of the assistants in place. They aren't going to make huge schematic or personnel changes IMO. That's just not how the Packers do things.
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Maybe I'm crazy, but I like the Packers path to get to the NFC title game. I think they can/will beat San Fran, I think they then go to Seattle and upset the Seahawks. The weakness of both the Seahawks and Niners are their passing games. Yes, the Pack D isn't great, but that's why I like these two matchups.
I think the run ends in Philly as the Eagles upset Carolina in the Division round and face the San Diego Chargers in a Super Bowl matchup few will have ever thought possible.
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nm
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Wow, three fair arguments that each of the three facets of the Packers' defense is the most disappointing. The more I think about it, how much is on Dom and how much is on TT? I'm not necessarily defending Dom, I think he's failed to adapt his scheme to fit his personnel since Woodson declined and left, but there is a lot of pretty bad personnel on defense. But for Clay, most his first round defensive selections (Harrell, Hawk, Raji - I'm omitting Perry and Jones for now as I think they need more time to play healthy to really evaluate) have been disappointing. And yes, I'm including Raji for looking like a shadow of his 2010 self for 3 years now.
TT has done a good job building depth in the later rounds (Hyde, House, Daniels, Neal, etc... all fine mid round picks to round out a defense), but there is just not a lot of front line talent there.
I always tend to say it is the players not the coaches, but guys are out of position play after play after play. How many times have we failed to see an OLB press to the middle as a RB goes wide. How many times are safeties not carrying out there assignments? It is game after game.
I don't know what is worse - a player with talent like Burnett out of position so often or a player like Conte who has very little talent who is in the right spot but can't make a play.
But Capers has to go. Raji gets about 10 sacks his 1st 2 years plus numerous tackles for loss and no sacks since. Did he just become a bad player or is it the scheme? Get rid of Capers.
You can watch Jauron at Pittsburgh and you can see what he is trying to do with his defense. I have never figured out what Capers philosophy is.
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Too soon. Needed more time ;)
He had his 5 years. It was ok to make a judgement.
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But Capers has to go. Raji gets about 10 sacks his 1st 2 years plus numerous tackles for loss and no sacks since. Did he just become a bad player or is it the scheme? Get rid of Capers.
I would think it would have to be the player. He's only played in Capers' scheme since coming to the NFL. How would the scheme hold him back?
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I would think it would have to be the player. He's only played in Capers' scheme since coming to the NFL. How would the scheme hold him back?
Devil's advocate: The scheme could hold him back if the league has adjusted to it but Capers hasn't countered.
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Devil's advocate: The scheme could hold him back if the league has adjusted to it but Capers hasn't countered.
That might be a valid point. I simply don't know.
And I really don't have any strong thoughts about Capers either way.
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Maybe I'm crazy, but I like the Packers path to get to the NFC title game. I think they can/will beat San Fran, I think they then go to Seattle and upset the Seahawks. The weakness of both the Seahawks and Niners are their passing games. Yes, the Pack D isn't great, but that's why I like these two matchups.
I think the run ends in Philly as the Eagles upset Carolina in the Division round and face the San Diego Chargers in a Super Bowl matchup few will have ever thought possible.
Crazy. They might beat SF, though I doubt it. They aren't going to Seattle to win that game.
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Crazy. They might beat SF, though I doubt it. They aren't going to Seattle to win that game.
I may be wrong, but chalk ain't going to the Super Bowl either.
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I may be wrong, but chalk ain't going to the Super Bowl either.
Any sport with a playoff where one game is played, it's a crapshoot. Less so in the NFL than the NCAA tournament, but still a crapshoot. I would agree chalk likely won't happen, but the Packers can't stop anyone and have been gifted some wins here of late. I don't see SF or Seattle or other good teams gifting is such a manner.
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The D sucked before Capers. It's a systemic problem imo. Need to get stronger, S&C needs to change. SF is big and cut, most of our guys are just fat and we must have the smallest MLB in the history of modern professional football.
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Crazy. They might beat SF, though I doubt it. They aren't going to Seattle to win that game.
I look at it the other way. I don't think they can beat SF, but if they somehow do, I think they have a great chance of beating Seattle.
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How would you like to have to be the Bears and face the prospect of giving a mega-contract to Jay Cutler? Wow.
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I look at it the other way. I don't think they can beat SF, but if they somehow do, I think they have a great chance of beating Seattle.
I disagree. I think the 49ers game is a 50/50 bet, mostly because its in Lambeau and forecasts are in the low 20s.
I don't see the Packers going to Seattle and beating the Seahawks though. But I will gladly be wrong.
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I look at it the other way. I don't think they can beat SF, but if they somehow do, I think they have a great chance of beating Seattle.
Beauty of these playoffs is it's one game and any team can beat any other in the field.
Both Denver and Seattle lost meaningful home games in December. Seattle is vulnerable in my opinion.
I think the best matchups for the Pack in the NFC are San Fran and Seattle. I think Carolina and Philly are the two least favorable, that said though, anyone can win the conference.
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I look at it the other way. I don't think they can beat SF, but if they somehow do, I think they have a great chance of beating Seattle.
I agree, for some reason SF has the Packers number lately. Seattle has an average offense, and good defense, which plays into the Packers strengths.
I do not think the Packers will even play Seattle if they get by SF. New Orleans will beat Philly and then go to Seattle, G B will go to Carolina.
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How would you like to have to be the Bears and face the prospect of giving a mega-contract to Jay Cutler? Wow.
Have fun with that. Matt Flynn "led GB to a 2-5-1 record. What was his QB rating for that impressive stretch? About the same as Cutler's career rating.
But Jay has shown he can lead a team to the playoffs once every 8 years, so if they sign him to an 8-year deal, Chi fans will have something to look forward too. Better than being a Cubbie fan!!
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Beauty of these playoffs is it's one game and any team can beat any other in the field.
Both Denver and Seattle lost meaningful home games in December. Seattle is vulnerable in my opinion.
I think the best matchups for the Pack in the NFC are San Fran and Seattle. I think Carolina and Philly are the two least favorable, that said though, anyone can win the conference.
It could get ugly having to play in Philly.
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Have fun with that. Matt Flynn "led GB to a 2-5-1 record. What was his QB rating for that impressive stretch? About the same as Cutler's career rating.
But Jay has shown he can lead a team to the playoffs once every 8 years, so if they sign him to an 8-year deal, Chi fans will have something to look forward too. Better than being a Cubbie fan!!
It wasn't just Flynn during that 2-5-1 stretch. We had Seneca Wallace and Tolzein as well.
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It wasn't just Flynn during that 2-5-1 stretch. We had Seneca Wallace and Tolzein as well.
Yeah, but it doesn't sound as good that way.
I think Wallace & Tolzien played 2 1/2 games out of the 8 if I remember correctly.
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Have to admit...I'm gonna miss Schwartz
(http://www.detroitlionsblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/jim-schwartz-challenge2.jpg)
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Two random thoughts:
1) I'm really loving Andrew Quarless. If Finley wants to get paid, I could absolutely see the Packers letting him walk.
2) I loved what the Packers did with their pass protection in passing situations. Rather than having the halfback be the check down, they just kept him in to help block and it was extremely effective. While the check down pass can be extremely important, giving Rodgers an extra second to find a receiver can be even more important.
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"Cobb instantly recognized that Conte was squatting on his prescribed curl route at the first-down marker. So after six strides, Cobb raised his hand and continued on a go route. “I saw that the safety was flat-footed and stayed on the move,” he said."
Crazy how much these players can read and react to in a split second. I absolutely love Cobb. He may be my favorite Packer of all time.
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Plenty of good seats still available for Niners/Pack.
I understand the logistics behind it, but for 15,000 unsold by now, that's insane.
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I might have to go. Most go topless, thinking I'll go bottomless to stir up the ESPN pot a little bit.
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On an unrelated note, how do the Browns fire their head coach after 1 season, a season in which they traded away their 1 big name (who is proving to not be all that great of an NFL running back) and had absolutely no talent on the roster? I'd be more worried about the GM...
That trade moving Trent Richardson might have been the smartest move any GM made in the league all year. What could you get for T Rich now? A third? Lombardi is in his first season, and I believe will do just fine. I think Josh Gordon at WR and Cameron at TE are bigger names at this point.
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In T Rich's defense, the Colts have sucked at running the ball. Stepped into a bad situation as far as holes opening up.
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In T Rich's defense, the Colts have sucked at running the ball. Stepped into a bad situation as far as holes opening up.
Donald Brown averaged over 5 yards per carry. I watched a few Colts games and T Rich seemed much too hesitant to hit the hole, it reminded me of watching James Starks a few years ago. Fairly effective if he got a head of steam, but for whatever reason was really slow to read the defense and make a move upfield. Part of that might be moving to a new offense mid-year, I still think he figures it out and has a decent career. But at #3 overall, and then being traded for a 1st round pick, he'd have to become Adrian Peterson-lite in order to not look like a huge bust.
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If the Packers game is blacked out, does that apply to Milwaukee or only Green Bay?
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Plenty of good seats still available for Niners/Pack.
I understand the logistics behind it, but for 15,000 unsold by now, that's insane.
Learned that Packers changed playoff payment policy this year. Season ticket holders were asked to pony up $ back in November when prospects were very bleak. They were told that unused $ would be applied to next year rather than returned as in past. Seemingly many opted out. The scramble is to now sell the remaining unused this week. My son and I have decided to go because tickets are so reasonable.
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If the Packers game is blacked out, does that apply to Milwaukee or only Green Bay?
It won't be backed out. Until I saw this, I didn't even kow tix were available. I assume most were the same...been so conditioned to tickets not being available. I suspect they will be gone by tomorrow at this time.
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If the Packers game is blacked out, does that apply to Milwaukee or only Green Bay?
How far do you have to drive to see the bears play this weekend? Oh wait.
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How far do you have to drive to see the bears play this weekend? Oh wait.
I'm not sure I get it, this has zero to do with the Bears.
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It won't be backed out. Until I saw this, I didn't even kow tix were available. I assume most were the same...been so conditioned to tickets not being available. I suspect they will be gone by tomorrow at this time.
It's 50/50 right now. They only sold 2,000 tickets today, 13k to go.
They have until 3:30pm Thursday to sell the remaining. Fear is with the holiday, they might get screwed. NFL probably grants an extension I'd assume.
Cincy and Indy ain't sold out yet either. Cincy highly doubtful, Indy probably gets there.
Fascinating though to see if Packers come through. Tough to fathom them not selling out a home playoff game.
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Sunday 3:40 time sucks too. Most people need to travel 3-5 hours and then work on Monday.
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Any chance that the local Fox affiliates will buy them up? I have to imagine they would hate to miss out on playoff football.
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Any chance that the local Fox affiliates will buy them up? I have to imagine they would hate to miss out on playoff football.
They are at 11k as of now. Still have 2 days. Where dish gets 50/50 i have no idea. I am sure they will sell them out. When I lived in Houston, this was a common occurrence, most times the local affiliate or some business bought them out and gave them away.
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They are at 11k as of now. Still have 2 days. Where dish gets 50/50 i have no idea. I am sure they will sell them out. When I lived in Houston, this was a common occurrence, most times the local affiliate or some business bought them out and gave them away.
Bill Hawker, Packers Corporate Sales, former co-worker of mine at the Bears in text to me "50/50 at this point".
That's where from. Horses mouth.
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Bill Hawker, Packers Corporate Sales, former co-worker of mine at the Bears in text to me "50/50 at this point".
That's where from. Horses mouth.
Settle down, just wondering where you got that number. Your 13k and 2k sold today is incorrect.
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Settle down, just wondering where you got that number. Your 13k and 2k sold today is incorrect.
Ok then?...
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Settle down, just wondering where you got that number. Your 13k and 2k sold today is incorrect.
ESPN reporting something similar
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ESPN reporting something similar
11k left per the team. Still a lot to go but they only opened it up for sale a day ago.
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11k left pet the team. Still a lot to go but they only opened it up for sale a day ago.
Correct. Non-season ticket holders were able to buy starting at 3p Monday. This afternoon the 4 ticket limit was lifted. Packers are really trying to get the word out.
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If the Packers game is blacked out, does that apply to Milwaukee or only Green Bay?
Bill Hawker, Packers Corporate Sales, former co-worker of mine at the Bears in text to me "50/50 at this point".
That's where from. Horses mouth.
Why don't you ask Hawker that question then?
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Why don't you ask Hawker that question then?
Huh? He has zero to do with Fox affiliates in Milwaukee.
8,000 tickets to go, 25 hours left.
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Huh? He has zero to do with Fox affiliates in Milwaukee.
8,000 tickets to go, 25 hours left.
It would be blacked out in Milwaukee, green bay and Escanaba. Fox has nothing to do with it either it is an NFL policy.
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It would be blacked out in Milwaukee, green bay and Escanaba. Fox has nothing to do with it either it is an NFL policy.
Fox affiliate does as they may opt to buy the balance for 50 cents on the dollar from the Pack.
This is a remarkable story.
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This is a remarkable story.
It is. Kind of a perfect storm of short turn-around, holidays, terrible weather forecast, Sunday evening after holiday week, and people typically having no expectation of being able to buy tickets.
All of that said, I fully expect to be sitting on my couch watching the game Sunday.
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Some updates...
Even though Milwaukee is outside the 75 mile radius, it has home market status, would be blacked out.
Madison however would not be blacked out.
7500 tickets now left.
Trying to get more info on the 34 cent rule buy back and how that would apply to the Pack.
This isn't a Bears/Packers thing at all, from a business perspective, this is an amazing story if they don't sell out or buy back. Significant ramifications down the road, absolute tipping point on a few different levels for the league and what they want to do this offseason.
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Fox affiliate does as they may opt to buy the balance for 50 cents on the dollar from the Pack.
This is a remarkable story.
Yes. Lot of things contributing to this. Team offered playoff tickets after the lion game and then said there would be no refund but money off next year. Poor judgment. Then when tickets went on sale the weather forecast came out, along with low confidence in the team. I think it will not be blacked out one way or another.
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Trying to get more info on the 34 cent rule buy back and how that would apply to the Pack.
Playoff tix must be purchased at face value. 34 cents only applies to regular season.
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Playoff tix must be purchased at face value. 34 cents only applies to regular season.
I believe you are correct sir.
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I believe you are correct sir.
So, that would cost the Packers about $1M correct?
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So, that would cost the Packers about $1M correct?
At the moment that's in the neighborhood. Just looked at the forecast again, and at 5-10 below zero, someone is probably gonna have to cough up $500K or more in order for me to see this game.
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What happens to the local advertising dollars if it's blacked out?
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What happens to the local advertising dollars if it's blacked out?
It ceases to exist.
Safe to assume themPackers and local affiliates will be talking a lot in the next 24 hours.
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It ceases to exist.
Safe to assume themPackers and local affiliates will be talking a lot in the next 24 hours.
This is all part of what is interesting here, as you have the smallest market in the league, I believe even with Milwaukee included. Any local ad revenue is markedly smaller in this scenario. Is it worth Fox Green Bay/Milwaukee to spend that much? You guys would know better than I would. Anyone have a good guess?
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This is all part of what is interesting here, as you have the smallest market in the league, I believe even with Milwaukee included. Any local ad revenue is markedly smaller in this scenario. Is it worth Fox Green Bay/Milwaukee to spend that much? You guys would know better than I would. Anyone have a good guess?
Yes. I would guess that the Packers and the local television stations both have a huge motivation to make sure the game is televised.
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Yes. I would guess that the Packers and the local television stations both have a huge motivation to make sure the game is televised.
I realize that of course, but let's say it's $1 million they have to pony up (it'll be slightly less I'm sure), is there enough local ad revenue to make a profit? I have no idea, curious if it is a profitable deal.
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I realize that of course, but let's say it's $1 million they have to pony up (it'll be slightly less I'm sure), is there enough local ad revenue to make a profit? I have no idea, curious if it is a profitable deal.
Down to 7500 , js and green bay press both say that the game will sell out, if not the packers will probably ask for an extension and then the team would buy up the remaining tickets to avoid the pr nightmare. It would probably be under half a mil $ at that point, probably less.
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Huh? He has zero to do with Fox affiliates in Milwaukee.
8,000 tickets to go, 25 hours left.
just thought he'd know if MKE was included in the blackout which we now have verified. TMJ4 speculated this AM that if nothing else the Packers would buy up the remaining tix to avoid a blackout
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Lovie Smith to Tampa.
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Lovie Smith to Tampa.
Good fit for Lovie. I hope he does well there. Also appears likely that Peanut will end up in TB with him.
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Cutler signs for 7 years.
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Cutler signs for 7 years.
Wow. I wonder how much he is getting.
He will be 37 by the time that contract runs out...
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Jennings, Slauson, Fiammetta and Gould also sign 2-year extensions.
EDIT: Now reported as 4-year deals for Jennings and Slauson.
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Cutler signs for 7 years.
How much guaranteed?
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How much guaranteed?
Not sure yet. These deals were really kept close to the vest.
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Not sure yet. These deals were really kept close to the vest.
Ha, they'll probably release the figures tomorrow afternoon. ;)
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Being reported first 3 years average $18 mil per season.
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Cutler signs for 7 years.
YEEESSSSSSSS!
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Being reported first 3 years average $18 mil per season.
That's a big number. Any idea if this deal makes it more likely that Peanut will be gone and/or Peppers will be released?
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Being reported first 3 years average $18 mil per season.
Wow that's a pretty penny... Does Cutler really warrant that much money?
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That's a big number. Any idea if this deal makes it more likely that Peanut will be gone and/or Peppers will be released?
It's right on market value, slight hometown discount. Most likely $50 mil guaranteed.
We'll see what the cap layout looks like, but so far seems fair across the board.
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YEEESSSSSSSS!
+1,000 Great news for NFC North Defenses.
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Just keeps getting worse for Bears fans
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I think a team can win with Jay.
The question is just how much $$ did the Bears have to spend to keep him?
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I think a team can win with Jay.
Maybe. But not this team.
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Maybe. But not this team.
You realize they had the second highest scoring offense iin the NFL, right?
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Maybe. But not this team.
With even a mediocre D, the Bears would have won at least 11 games this season.
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I think it was the move the Bears had to make. Who else are you going to get to be your QB for the next 3 years?
From what's being reported - the contract is top heavy, so he'll be earning his money in the first 3 seasons of the deal - an average of $18 million for those first 3 years as was stated above.
After the first 3 years, his salary will jump down and he will be able to be cut if the Bears choose to do so without a huge hit to their cap. Or they can keep him for what should be a good value.
I think they will still draft a QB this year.
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With even a mediocre D, the Bears would have won at least 11 games this season.
But, they didn't. And Jay is going into his 9th NFL season with 1 Playoff appearance. So I guess with this deal maybe they're hoping they can get back into the Playoffs once before it's up?
My question is this: What is the goal for the Chicago Bears? Is it to put a product on the field that can consistently make it into the Playoffs and thus have a chance to make a run at a Super Bowl? If so, don't you have to ask yourself, "Who do I have to go through to make the Playoffs every year?" In the NFC North, the answer is fairly consistently the Green Bay Packers. If I'm the Bears, am I OK knowing that Jay Cutler is 1-10 all time against the Packers? I know it's not that simple and there's a million other things you have to consider, but 1-10!? If you're 3-8 maybe you can say let's add a few pieces here and there and maybe we can string a few wins together against them, but 1 and freaking 10. That is brutal when it is your divisional rival. To lock that up for as much money as they are going to pay him...not so sure about that.
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But, they didn't. And Jay is going into his 9th NFL season with 1 Playoff appearance. So I guess with this deal maybe they're hoping they can get back into the Playoffs once before it's up?
My question is this: What is the goal for the Chicago Bears? Is it to put a product on the field that can consistently make it into the Playoffs and thus have a chance to make a run at a Super Bowl? If so, don't you have to ask yourself, "Who do I have to go through to make the Playoffs every year?" In the NFC North, the answer is fairly consistently the Green Bay Packers. If I'm the Bears, am I OK knowing that Jay Cutler is 1-10 all time against the Packers? I know it's not that simple and there's a million other things you have to consider, but 1-10!? If you're 3-8 maybe you can say let's add a few pieces here and there and maybe we can string a few wins together against them, but 1 and freaking 10. That is brutal when it is your divisional rival. To lock that up for as much money as they are going to pay him...not so sure about that.
Do you keep making this argument if the Bears were playing on Sunday? Cause Cutler did everything to get them there minus play safety instead of Conte. He had a QBR of 90 and a QB Rating of 103, would have been 120 I believe save for the pick on the last play. In his first season with a competent OL and offensive weapons he had his best overall passer rating. You have to be blind or biased to not see the upward progression in his performance the last 3 years.
Rex Grossman was 4-2 against the Packers and made 2 playoff appearances in 3 years as a starter for the Bears, they should have kept him, cause clearly its all about the QB!
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Do you keep making this argument if the Bears were playing on Sunday? Cause Cutler did everything to get them there minus play safety instead of Conte. He had a QBR of 90 and a QB Rating of 103, would have been 120 I believe save for the pick on the last play. In his first season with a competent OL and offensive weapons he had his best overall passer rating. You have to be blind or biased to not see the upward progression in his performance the last 3 years.
Rex Grossman was 4-2 against the Packers and made 2 playoff appearances in 3 years as a starter for the Bears, they should have kept him, cause clearly its all about the QB!
Exactly. I'm glad Emery didn't make the decision on his future starting QB based on his career record against one team.
And there aren't very many QBs in the league that have a stellar record against Aaron Rodgers.
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You have two of the best WRs in the league, an electrifying RB that has 2 maybe 3 good years left, and you just rebuilt your entire offensive line.
To throw your QB away after all that would be stupid.
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You realize they had the second highest scoring offense iin the NFL, right?
You realize he's been in the playoffs once in 8 years?
And $18 mil WITH a hometown discount? So he is worth Rodgers type money in reality?
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Do you keep making this argument if the Bears were playing on Sunday? Cause Cutler did everything to get them there minus play safety instead of Conte. He had a QBR of 90 and a QB Rating of 103, would have been 120 I believe save for the pick on the last play. In his first season with a competent OL and offensive weapons he had his best overall passer rating. You have to be blind or biased to not see the upward progression in his performance the last 3 years.
Rex Grossman was 4-2 against the Packers and made 2 playoff appearances in 3 years as a starter for the Bears, they should have kept him, cause clearly its all about the QB!
It's never Jay's fault. Too many head coaches, O coordinators, O linemen aren't good enough, receivers aren't good enough. 1 Playoff appearance in 8 seasons. 1 win against his biggest divisional rival. You'd think he could fluke himself to more than 1 win in 11 tries. But it's not on Jay. His 12 touchdowns to 20 interceptions in his career against the Packers? Not Jay's fault.
I think I read somewhere the Packers game was the highest QB rating Jay Cutler has ever had. Congratulations, nice game. That QB rating is still below Aaron Rodgers's career QB rating. No chance I'd be happy with 7 more years of Jay as my QB.
All I can say is Packers fans are celebrating today. Apparently Bears fans are too.
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You realize they had the second highest scoring offense iin the NFL, right?
Thanks to Josh McCown.
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It's never Jay's fault. Too many head coaches, O coordinators, O linemen aren't good enough, receivers aren't good enough. 1 Playoff appearance in 8 seasons. 1 win against his biggest divisional rival. You'd think he could fluke himself to more than 1 win in 11 tries. But it's not on Jay. His 12 touchdowns to 20 interceptions in his career against the Packers? Not Jay's fault.
I think I read somewhere the Packers game was the highest QB rating Jay Cutler has ever had. Congratulations, nice game. That QB rating is still below Aaron Rodgers's career QB rating. No chance I'd be happy with 7 more years of Jay as my QB.
All I can say is Packers fans are celebrating today. Apparently Bears fans are too.
Packers fans celebrating about another team's offseason signing... when their team is 3 days away from a playoff game. ?-(
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You realize they had the second highest scoring offense iin the NFL, right?
They went 10-6 last year, fire Lovie and go 8-8 (in arguably the worst division in the NFL), and Bears fans are trying to spin it as progress.
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You have two of the best WRs in the league, an electrifying RB that has 2 maybe 3 good years left, and you just rebuilt your entire offensive line.
To throw your QB away after all that would be stupid.
As much as I hate Cutler, you are right despite the hyperbole. With your defense, Emery had no choice if he doesn't want a complete rebuilding.
But the "two of the best WRs in the league is a little much. Marshall is a top 5 receiver, maybe top 3, but anyone ranking Alshon anywhere near that high is dreaming. Good, yes, but don't get carried away.
And you may be the 1st to use electrifying and Matt Forte together. One of the top backs in the league is praise enough.
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It's never Jay's fault. Too many head coaches, O coordinators, O linemen aren't good enough, receivers aren't good enough. 1 Playoff appearance in 8 seasons. 1 win against his biggest divisional rival. You'd think he could fluke himself to more than 1 win in 11 tries. But it's not on Jay. His 12 touchdowns to 20 interceptions in his career against the Packers? Not Jay's fault.
I think I read somewhere the Packers game was the highest QB rating Jay Cutler has ever had. Congratulations, nice game. That QB rating is still below Aaron Rodgers's career QB rating. No chance I'd be happy with 7 more years of Jay as my QB.
All I can say is Packers fans are celebrating today. Apparently Bears fans are too.
Matt Ryan only has one playoff win, should he be cut? Mark Sanchez has 4 playoffs wins, maybe the Falcons should sign him.
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Career QB rating.
Cutler 89.2 Flynn 88.3
And Cutler has had at least one "great" receiver almost every year
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YEEESSSSSSSS!
+1000
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If Bears fans are happy, that's great.
But I'm happy too. This is what Packers fans were hoping for.
I honestly wonder if the Bears fans are so used to cycling through QBs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chicago_Bears_starting_quarterbacks) that they are willing to settle with Cutler. I guess it makes sense. He's the best since McMahon, I just think you could do so much better.
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The football stupid is out in full focre today, good lord.
Did people expect Cutler to sign for a dollar and fifty cents? Jesus.
If Cutler's deal averages $18 mil a year, it is FAIR. The arguments being made here are laughable.
Rodgers $22 per year
Ryan $21 per year
Flacco $20 per year
Peyton $19.2 per year
Romo $18 per year
Stafford $17.7 per year
Oh by the way, this just in, every year the market GOES UP. How do people not understand this?
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I'm going to troll for once and play the meatball card here...
If Packer fans are so happy about Cutler signing, how about buying some playoff tickets for your home playoff game so it doesn't get blacked out?
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The football stupid is out in full focre today, good lord.
Did people expect Cutler to sign for a dollar and fifty cents? Jesus.
If Cutler's deal averages $18 mil a year, it is FAIR. The arguments being made here are laughable.
Rodgers $22 per year
Ryan $21 per year
Flacco $20 per year
Peyton $19.2 per year
Romo $18 per year
Stafford $17.7 per year
Oh by the way, this just in, every year the market GOES UP. How do people not understand this?
You're missing the point. Its not about the money. Its about signing a mediocre QB with questionable leadership skills to 7 years.
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Career QB rating.
Cutler 89.2 Flynn 88.3
And Cutler has had at least one "great" receiver almost every year
Who were his "great" receivers his first 3 years in Chicago? Roy Williams? Devin Hester? Johnny Knox?
And seriously with Flynn? This season was the first time he ever started more than 2 games in a year in his entire career. The sample set isn't exactly conclusive.
I honestly wonder if the Bears fans are so used to cycling through QBs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chicago_Bears_starting_quarterbacks) that they are willing to settle with Cutler. I guess it makes sense. He's the best since McMahon, I just think you could do so much better.
I'll play along. Who exactly could they get that is "so much better"? Sanchez? Matt Schaub? They're not drafting a QB in the first round with the defensive holes they have.
Comparisons to Rodgers is stupid. He's an MVP and a first ballot HOF player. No Bears fan would ever compare the two, so making that comparison is just taking the conversation in a foolish direction. But I'm glad you brought up the super tangible "leadership skills" card. That one is always fun
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Who were his "great" receivers his first 3 years in Chicago? Roy Williams? Devin Hester? Johnny Knox?
And seriously with Flynn? This season was the first time he ever started more than 2 games in a year in his entire career. The sample set isn't exactly conclusive.
I'll play along. Who exactly could they get that is "so much better"? Sanchez? Matt Schaub? They're not drafting a QB in the first round with the defensive holes they have.
Comparisons to Rodgers is stupid. He's an MVP and a first ballot HOF player. No Bears fan would ever compare the two, so making that comparison is just taking the conversation in a foolish direction. But I'm glad you brought up the super tangible "leadership skills" card. That one is always fun
I would have said the draft. Its served the Packers well over the past 5 years.
I don't think the Bears need an Aaron Rodgers. I wasn't making that comparison. If they had a Tony Romo or an Alex Smith, someone down a tier from the Rodgers and Peyton Mannings, but up a level from the Cutlers, I think they would be contenders.
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You're missing the point. Its not about the money. Its about signing a mediocre QB with questionable leadership skills to 7 years.
It's all about the money. The 7 years means nothing. It only matters how the contract is structured. NFL players are dumped before their contracts expire all the time.
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I'm going to troll for once and play the meatball card here...
If Packer fans are so happy about Cutler signing, how about buying some playoff tickets for your home playoff game so it doesn't get blacked out?
Well, if it does get blacked out at least we can all watch the Bears game. Oh wait...
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The football stupid is out in full focre today, good lord.
Did people expect Cutler to sign for a dollar and fifty cents? Jesus.
If Cutler's deal averages $18 mil a year, it is FAIR. The arguments being made here are laughable.
Rodgers $22 per year
Ryan $21 per year
Flacco $20 per year
Peyton $19.2 per year
Romo $18 per year
Stafford $17.7 per year
Oh by the way, this just in, every year the market GOES UP. How do people not understand this?
I see Cutler at the level of Romo and Stafford, actually similar in many ways. 18 million is not too much to pay for him if that’s the direction they want to go. They still have many holes to fill on the defensive side. Signing Cutler really doesn’t make them a better team, but does give them some stability at the position.
How does management set up the contracts so there are 25 free agents in one year? Sure you have a lot of cap space, but you have a lot of players to either replace or re-sign.
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I'm going to troll for once and play the meatball card here...
If Packer fans are so happy about Cutler signing, how about buying some playoff tickets for your home playoff game so it doesn't get blacked out?
The game won't get blacked out. I'm not worried about it.
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Well, if it does get blacked out at least we can all watch the Bears game. Oh wait...
That was a pretty weak comeback. The Packers not selling out a home playoff game...come on, please justify that for me, I'm begging.
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I'm going to troll for once and play the meatball card here...
If Packer fans are so happy about Cutler signing, how about buying some playoff tickets for your home playoff game so it doesn't get blacked out?
Ridiculous statement, and shows the Bear homer you are. Not hard to figure out the passive agressive posts.
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Ridiculous statement, and shows the Bear homer you are. Not hard to figure out the passive agressive posts.
You're right, same guy who is calling for Packers/Eagles NFC title game. You nailed me on this one.
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That was a pretty weak comeback. The Packers not selling out a home playoff game...come on, please justify that for me, I'm begging.
Won't happen, so it doesn't need justification.
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That was a pretty weak comeback. The Packers not selling out a home playoff game...come on, please justify that for me, I'm begging.
Myself and others have posted valid reasons behind it. The packers consecutive sellouts of over 270 games and season ticket waiting list of 100,000 speaks for itself. Certainly better than the bears and there are a whole lot more people in chicago than are in Green Bay, Milwaukee and sourrounding areas.
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Ridiculous statement, and shows the Bear homer you are. Not hard to figure out the passive agressive posts.
I think Dish is way more fair and balanced than most of the Packer fans on this board.
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You're right, same guy who is calling for Packers/Eagles NFC title game. You nailed me on this one.
Maybe you need to go back and read. I never predicted any title game. I did say the Saints could beat the eagles sending them to Seattle and Green Bay to Carolina if they beat SF.
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I think the Bears did what was best for them by signing Cutler.
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I think the Bears did what was best for them by signing Cutler.
Cutler for $18M per year was a fair deal. People I think have forgotten was the average NFL quarterback is like. They are bad.
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I think Dish is way more fair and balanced than most of the Packer fans on this board.
I agree for the most part, but he is quick to hammer on the packers and defend the bears in a passive agressive way, maybe because he is a bear fan he doesn't realize he is doing it. I have no problem with it, but then don't come across like an expert.
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Let me say this, it's a big issue for the NFL and Packers if the most loyal fan base in the NFL can not sell out a playoff game. I'm not trolling, not being a jerk when I say this. To a degree I understand the short term selling tickets issue, the weather, the late Sunday start time, I get that. But, this is also the most die hard of die hard fan bases. Coming off one of the most exciting clinching games I can recall, one would think there'd be momentum there to get tickets sold.
The NFL's goal is to basically double their current revenue by 2020. The Packers not selling out a playoff game raises a lot of red flags. The NFL wants to go hard into market based ticketing. In the next few years, your NFL ticket will not list a price point on it. The advancement of the TV product is both a curse and blessing. The in game experience, quite frankly, is not great, and the league knows this. Moving back into Los Angeles, or Europe, means butts need to be in seats in those markets for them to be successful. At the league meetings this spring, there will be a vote to expand the playoffs and create another Thursday night package. If the Pack can't sell out, there's going to be a lot of people in New York having to answer for a lot of these issues.
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I agree for the most part, but he is quick to hammer on the packers and defend the bears in a passive agressive way, maybe because he is a bear fan he doesn't realize he is doing it. I have no problem with it, but then don't come across like an expert.
I respect you Hairy, I trolled once for trolling's sake. I've said a few times on here I have the utmost respect for the Packers, their loyal fanbase, and their organization. It's not a coincidence the Pack is very good year in and year out, they are extremely well run and have the best player in the game. To not give them kudos for their success would be silly.
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It might be market value since I think he is very similar value to Stafford and Romo. I think Matty Ice signed his when people thought he had more potential than what was really there. Flacco signed his after the Super Bowl.
Honestly, I would rather try hitting on a QB in the draft and signing a top flight defender with the difference. Hell, McCown looked great. Imagine him with some guys on defense and they could've easily ran away with the division. I just think second tier QBs are overpriced due to the cost of the top tier. Top tier guys are worth it, those second tier guys aren't worth it.
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Who exactly could they get that is "so much better"? Sanchez? Matt Schaub? They're not drafting a QB in the first round with the defensive holes they have.
I think this is the answer. If Cutler works out great. If not, and they cut bait after 3 or so years, they've had a chance to re-stock other talent.
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That was a pretty weak comeback. The Packers not selling out a home playoff game...come on, please justify that for me, I'm begging.
It is more the Packers fault then the fans. They changed their ticket policy and said they wouldn't return the ticket price if the Packers didn't host and it would be applied to next year's tickets. This was sent out after the Packers got killed by the lions on Thanksgiving. You also had to prepurchase to round 2. So if you were paying for $340 per seat playoff tickets, you basically handed over the Packers $1,500 to sit on til next June. Most fans couldn't rationalize setting aside that much money on the slim chances the Pack made the playoffs, especially with the holiday season.
Add on a lot of fans spent money for last Sunday's playoff type game and that we've been dumped on in bad weather, it's a lot harder to find fans this late to scoop up that many tickets. If the Pack would've kept their original policy, more fans would've bought right away.
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I respect you Hairy, I trolled once for trolling's sake. I've said a few times on here I have the utmost respect for the Packers, their loyal fanbase, and their organization. It's not a coincidence the Pack is very good year in and year out, they are extremely well run and have the best player in the game. To not give them kudos for their success would be silly.
It is out of character for you to troll, thats why I called you out. Your insight is appreciated here by me at least.
Not selling out is a huge wake up call for both the packers and nfl. Stupid blunder on Packers part in November, what it did was put the ticket sales in range of a forecast that is not favorable. The packers do have a loyal and large fan base, but much of it is out of state, not practical to come to a game last minute. They still have to deal with a small market in terms of last minute ticket sales. I think there is a bigger issue with fan complacency lately for the Packers. Someone in their 20's has never known a losing packer team.
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It is out of character for you to troll, thats why I called you out. Your insight is appreciated here by me at least.
Not selling out is a huge wake up call for both the packers and nfl. Stupid blunder on Packers part in November, what it did was put the ticket sales in range of a forecast that is not favorable. The packers do have a loyal and large fan base, but much of it is out of state, not practical to come to a game last minute. They still have to deal with a small market in terms of last minute ticket sales. I think there is a bigger issue with fan complacency lately for the Packers. Someone in their 20's has never known a losing packer team.
You're more right than anything. I suppose I'm more mad about being back at work after 10 days off than anything and letting it get the better of me.
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It's all about the money. The 7 years means nothing. It only matters how the contract is structured. NFL players are dumped before their contracts expire all the time.
You're right, which is why it makes sense for the Bears. Without injuries, Rodgers will get the full reported amount. I doubt that cutler will.
But that's football - What really matters is the bonus up front
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I would have said the draft. Its served the Packers well over the past 5 years.
I don't think the Bears need an Aaron Rodgers. I wasn't making that comparison. If they had a Tony Romo or an Alex Smith, someone down a tier from the Rodgers and Peyton Mannings, but up a level from the Cutlers, I think they would be contenders.
Really? Alex Smith and Tony Romo are a tier up from Cutler? Give me a break. Obviously not the same level as Rodgers and Manning, but to say he's a level below Alex Smith and Tony Romo is ludicrous.
There's basically 3 tiers as far as I'm concerned
1) Elite -- Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Brees
2) Quality NFL Starters -- Cutler, Romo, Luck, Stafford, Kapernick, Wilson, Rivers, Rothlisberger, Dalton, Flacco, Ryan, Eli, Alex Smith, Foles, Tannehill (?), RGIII, Newton, Palmer
3) Better Suited as a Backup -- Geno Smith, Terrell Pryor, Fitzpatrick, Glennon, Thad Lewis, Jason Campbell, Chad Henne
I'm sure I'm missing some people, but those are basically the tiers. The top guys are studs, the next tier are guys that can stick in the league as starters, but don't set the world on fire. And the last tier will never stick as an NFL starter.
Some of the young guys in the 2nd tier (Luck, Newton, Wilson, Kapernick) don't have a long enough track record to be in the elite class, but can certainly work themselves there.
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Really? Alex Smith and Tony Romo are a tier up from Cutler? Give me a break. Obviously not the same level as Rodgers and Manning, but to say he's a level below Alex Smith and Tony Romo is ludicrous.
There's basically 3 tiers as far as I'm concerned
1) Elite -- Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Brees
2) Quality NFL Starters -- Cutler, Romo, Luck, Stafford, Kapernick, Wilson, Rivers, Rothlisberger, Dalton, Flacco, Ryan, Eli, Alex Smith, Foles, Tannehill (?), RGIII, Newton, Palmer
3) Better Suited as a Backup -- Geno Smith, Terrell Pryor, Fitzpatrick, Glennon, Thad Lewis, Jason Campbell, Chad Henne
I'm sure I'm missing some people, but those are basically the tiers. The top guys are studs, the next tier are guys that can stick in the league as starters, but don't set the world on fire. And the last tier will never stick as an NFL starter.
Some of the young guys in the 2nd tier (Luck, Newton, Wilson, Kapernick) don't have a long enough track record to be in the elite class, but can certainly work themselves there.
Rodgers, Peyton, Brees: 4 conf titles, 3 SB titles
Flacco, Ben, Eli: 6 conf titles, 5 SB titles
You don't need an "elite-level" QB to win a championship.
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He's 18 million reasons to resign Cutler:
2008 Kyle Orton (15) / Rex Grossman (1)
2007 Rex Grossman (7) / Brian Griese (6) / Kyle Orton (3)
2006 Rex Grossman (16)
2005 Kyle Orton (15) / Rex Grossman (1)
2004 Craig Krenzel (5) / Chad Hutchinson (5)/ Jonathan Quinn (3) / Rex Grossman (3)
2003 Kordell Stewart (7) / Chris Chandler (6)/ Rex Grossman (3)
2002 Jim Miller (8) / Chris Chandler (7) / Henry Burris (1)
2001 Jim Miller (13) / Shane Matthews (3)
2000 Cade McNown (9) / Shane Matthews (5) / Jim Miller (2)
1999 Shane Matthews (7) / Cade McNown (6) / Jim Miller (3)
1998 Erik Kramer (8) / Steve Stenstrom (7) / Moses Moreno (1)
1997 Erik Kramer (13) / Rick Mirer (3)
1996 Dave Krieg (12) / Erik Kramer (4)
1995 Erik Kramer (16)
1994 Steve Walsh (11) / Erik Kramer (5)
1993 Jim Harbaugh (15) / Peter Tom Willis (1)
1992 Jim Harbaugh (13) / Peter Tom Willis (2) / Will Furrer (1)
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He's 18 million reasons to resign Cutler:
2008 Kyle Orton (15) / Rex Grossman (1)
2007 Rex Grossman (7) / Brian Griese (6) / Kyle Orton (3)
2006 Rex Grossman (16)
2005 Kyle Orton (15) / Rex Grossman (1)
2004 Craig Krenzel (5) / Chad Hutchinson (5)/ Jonathan Quinn (3) / Rex Grossman (3)
2003 Kordell Stewart (7) / Chris Chandler (6)/ Rex Grossman (3)
2002 Jim Miller (8) / Chris Chandler (7) / Henry Burris (1)
2001 Jim Miller (13) / Shane Matthews (3)
2000 Cade McNown (9) / Shane Matthews (5) / Jim Miller (2)
1999 Shane Matthews (7) / Cade McNown (6) / Jim Miller (3)
1998 Erik Kramer (8) / Steve Stenstrom (7) / Moses Moreno (1)
1997 Erik Kramer (13) / Rick Mirer (3)
1996 Dave Krieg (12) / Erik Kramer (4)
1995 Erik Kramer (16)
1994 Steve Walsh (11) / Erik Kramer (5)
1993 Jim Harbaugh (15) / Peter Tom Willis (1)
1992 Jim Harbaugh (13) / Peter Tom Willis (2) / Will Furrer (1)
Dark times for the Chicago Bears.... really 2004? Ok with Craig Krenzel as starting QB going into the season!
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From a Lion's perspective, it is money the Bear's won't be able to spend elsewhere. So, if this is what the management team of the Bear's wants, more power to them
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Dark times for the Chicago Bears.... really 2004? Ok with Craig Krenzel as starting QB going into the season!
2004 was the year Grossman tore his ACL early on and they first turned to the immortal Jonathan Quinn at QB, who may have literally been the worst QB in NFL history.
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I think a team can win with Jay, but I think they overpaid, and they might find themselves hancuffed with his contract.
They are going to depend upon cheap drafted players similar to the Packers.
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Really? Alex Smith and Tony Romo are a tier up from Cutler? Give me a break. Obviously not the same level as Rodgers and Manning, but to say he's a level below Alex Smith and Tony Romo is ludicrous.
There's basically 3 tiers as far as I'm concerned
1) Elite -- Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Brees
2) Quality NFL Starters -- Cutler, Romo, Luck, Stafford, Kapernick, Wilson, Rivers, Rothlisberger, Dalton, Flacco, Ryan, Eli, Alex Smith, Foles, Tannehill (?), RGIII, Newton, Palmer
3) Better Suited as a Backup -- Geno Smith, Terrell Pryor, Fitzpatrick, Glennon, Thad Lewis, Jason Campbell, Chad Henne
I'm sure I'm missing some people, but those are basically the tiers. The top guys are studs, the next tier are guys that can stick in the league as starters, but don't set the world on fire. And the last tier will never stick as an NFL starter.
Some of the young guys in the 2nd tier (Luck, Newton, Wilson, Kapernick) don't have a long enough track record to be in the elite class, but can certainly work themselves there.
I think there are 4 tiers. Break up your 2nd tier into two groups. Cutler is in the lower tier (3rd out of 4)
Basically I'd divide it up this way...
1) Future HOFs - Brees, Rodgers, Peyton Manning,
2) Consistent Pro Bowlers/Super Bowl Winners - Rothlisberger, Eli Manning, Flacco, Romo, Rivers (maybe eventually Kapernick, RGIII, Wilson, Newton, or Luck but not yet)
3) Proven Starters - Cutler, Dalton, Palmer, Stafford, Bradford, Alex Smith
4) Unproven Starters/Probable Backups - the rest of the mess
Granted, the top two tiers are relatively small, probably only 7 or 8 guys total. But I think Cutler falls into the 3rd group. I probably misspoke by including Alex Smith in the 2nd group. But Tony Romo is in there.
If Cutler makes more than one Pro Bowl or wins a SB ring I'd move him up.
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The Cutler deal is essentially 3 years, $54 million.
The guaranteed money is huge, I had heard $50 million, but the $54 million is gigantic. That part scares me.
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2004 was the year Grossman tore his ACL early on and they first turned to the immortal Jonathan Quinn at QB, who may have literally been the worst QB in NFL history.
Henry Burris would like a word with you...
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/2856/henry-burris
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The Cutler deal is essentially 3 years, $54 million.
The guaranteed money is huge, I had heard $50 million, but the $54 million is gigantic. That part scares me.
Is he for sure getting 18 a year for the first 3 or are you just speculating?
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Is he for sure getting 18 a year for the first 3 or are you just speculating?
That's what is being reported.
7years/$126 mil
$54 mil guaranteed
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The Cutler deal is essentially 3 years, $54 million.
The guaranteed money is huge, I had heard $50 million, but the $54 million is gigantic. That part scares me.
As long as the guaranteed money is only in the 1st 3 years, I think it's a good deal for the Bears.
The big difference in the NFC North is that Stafford and Cutler don't value the ball and Rodgers does (Sunday was unusual because he was rusty after missing 2 months). Just wait for the mistakes.
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Is he for sure getting 18 a year for the first 3 or are you just speculating?
That's what is out there now. The language of it all is what will be telling. Is he getting salary/bonus all guaranteed in those first 3 years? The bonus will be guaranteed, but did they front load it so heavily with all guaranteed money for three years, and then be able to walk away after year 3 with no dead money?
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It is more the Packers fault then the fans. They changed their ticket policy and said they wouldn't return the ticket price if the Packers didn't host and it would be applied to next year's tickets.
word is this is now the league-wide NFL policy
at lunch they said down to 3000 left - heard that Cinci and Indy are also in trouble of a blackout
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Let me say this, it's a big issue for the NFL and Packers if the most loyal fan base in the NFL can not sell out a playoff game. I'm not trolling, not being a jerk when I say this. To a degree I understand the short term selling tickets issue, the weather, the late Sunday start time, I get that. But, this is also the most die hard of die hard fan bases. Coming off one of the most exciting clinching games I can recall, one would think there'd be momentum there to get tickets sold.
The NFL's goal is to basically double their current revenue by 2020. The Packers not selling out a playoff game raises a lot of red flags. The NFL wants to go hard into market based ticketing. In the next few years, your NFL ticket will not list a price point on it. The advancement of the TV product is both a curse and blessing. The in game experience, quite frankly, is not great, and the league knows this. Moving back into Los Angeles, or Europe, means butts need to be in seats in those markets for them to be successful. At the league meetings this spring, there will be a vote to expand the playoffs and create another Thursday night package. If the Pack can't sell out, there's going to be a lot of people in New York having to answer for a lot of these issues.
I see the potential for a perfect storm for the NFL in the next couple of years. I'm going to the game Sunday but only after my dad called and offered to buy tickets for he, my brother and I to go to the game. Weather is definitely a factor, so is the short turn around and the fact that a lot of people had given up on this team a month ago.
I think the biggest factor is the in-game experience is crap. I don't understand why teams(not just an NFL issue) don't invest in high speed cell network's and/or high volume wi-fi. Getting the internet at a game is damn near impossible most days and like it or not things like twitter and highlights from other games or fantasy football(during the regular season) are things that are integral to me watching a game these days. It's somewhat better now that they have the new video board and show highlights, but you can miss a lot being at a game that you would catch being at home. Also, the pricing is pretty insane, especially for Packer fans. Not only is there the game ticket, but travel costs, meals, parking(if your a sucker and use the lots) and any incidentals at the game. Plus the time involved to travel to and from.
You combine all that with some of the changes in the game, reffing atrocities, PR stupidity, and any potential impact of the concussion thing and the NFL could have some real issues. I don't think anything catastrophic, but I do think a pretty big sea change is coming.
One other thing, another Thursday night package???? I'm about as big a football fan as you'll find and I don't think I watched more than 2 hours of Thursday night football collectively this season. Part of it was terrible match-ups, part was it's bad football(turn around is too quick), and part is I can't commit 4 nights to football(Saturday(college), Sunday, and Monday are must haves).
I think Bill Simmons has it right, the league should go to an 18 week schedule(still 16 games per team) and have two bye weeks per team. Fewer games on each week but how many games can you really watch? Eliminate Thursday games but you can extend the season and revenue an extra week will improving the product by allowing teams to be fresher and keep star players on the field more. Additionally, they moves the last two weeks of the season out of competition with college football so you can play a couple of Saturday games on the final two weeks when the games count the most. That pushes the SuperBowl back but who cares, nothing interesting from a sports perspective is happening in mid-February that would conflict with a SuperBowl Sunday.
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http://www.barstoolsports.com/m/chicago/super-page/why-cant-the-packers-sell-out-their-playoff-game-i-thought-they-had-the-greatest-fans-on-planet-earth/
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word is this is now the league-wide NFL policy
at lunch they said down to 3000 left - heard that Cinci and Indy are also in trouble of a blackout
Interestingly that means that they have now sold more tickets than Lambeau's capacity prior to this year.
So that means they have sold more tickets to this game than any playoff game ever???
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I think Bill Simmons has it right, the league should go to an 18 week schedule(still 16 games per team) and have two bye weeks per team. Fewer games on each week but how many games can you really watch? Eliminate Thursday games but you can extend the season and revenue an extra week will improving the product by allowing teams to be fresher and keep star players on the field more. Additionally, they moves the last two weeks of the season out of competition with college football so you can play a couple of Saturday games on the final two weeks when the games count the most. That pushes the SuperBowl back but who cares, nothing interesting from a sports perspective is happening in mid-February that would conflict with a SuperBowl Sunday.
I'm not a big fan of the Thursday games, but with two byes, teams could potentially only play on Thursday nights following a bye week. Players would LOVE to have 10 days off, a game and then 9 days off. Definitely something the league would spin into a "player wellness" move.
Also, the Super Bowl doesn't need to be moved back if they eliminate the pointless bye week after the conf championships.
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Interestingly that means that they have now sold more tickets than Lambeau's capacity prior to this year.
So that means they have sold more tickets to this game than any playoff game ever???
Correct. Capacity was expanded by 7,500 seats this year.
I looked at going. The prices are a little high, about $111 a ticket for the cheapest, but the late game time is the biggest obstacle for me, with a 4+ hour drive.
FWIW, Lambeau is 3rd biggest stadium in the NFL in terms of capacity. Not making excuses, I still fully expect it to sell out, as I've been saying all along
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I think MU03eng said it perfectly there, agree 100%.
I'll be interested to see what Levi's Stadium is like, because that's really the first stadium built in this new era.
Wifi, checking twitter, fantasy updates on your phone, trying to text someone at an NFL game, all next to impossible. Paying $5 for an awful hot dog. Standing in line to go to the bathroom and missing half a quarter. Freezing your tail off if you live in a city like Green Bay/Chicago. Even stupid stuff like entertainment in game. The Bears drumline? Ugh. The downtime in between plays and the timeouts in the stadium lead to a ton of time to feed the fan at the game with info, which is struggling to happen.
Agree, something is going to have to give soon.
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Also, the Super Bowl doesn't need to be moved back if they eliminate the pointless bye week after the conf championships.
It's not pointless to the teams that are playing. They have done this before, and the consensus was that between practice, the mandatory events, and travel, that it was very difficult for teams to feel prepared for that game.
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I see the potential for a perfect storm for the NFL in the next couple of years. I'm going to the game Sunday but only after my dad called and offered to buy tickets for he, my brother and I to go to the game. Weather is definitely a factor, so is the short turn around and the fact that a lot of people had given up on this team a month ago.
I think the biggest factor is the in-game experience is crap. I don't understand why teams(not just an NFL issue) don't invest in high speed cell network's and/or high volume wi-fi. Getting the internet at a game is damn near impossible most days and like it or not things like twitter and highlights from other games or fantasy football(during the regular season) are things that are integral to me watching a game these days. It's somewhat better now that they have the new video board and show highlights, but you can miss a lot being at a game that you would catch being at home. Also, the pricing is pretty insane, especially for Packer fans. Not only is there the game ticket, but travel costs, meals, parking(if your a sucker and use the lots) and any incidentals at the game. Plus the time involved to travel to and from.
You combine all that with some of the changes in the game, reffing atrocities, PR stupidity, and any potential impact of the concussion thing and the NFL could have some real issues. I don't think anything catastrophic, but I do think a pretty big sea change is coming.
One other thing, another Thursday night package???? I'm about as big a football fan as you'll find and I don't think I watched more than 2 hours of Thursday night football collectively this season. Part of it was terrible match-ups, part was it's bad football(turn around is too quick), and part is I can't commit 4 nights to football(Saturday(college), Sunday, and Monday are must haves).
I think Bill Simmons has it right, the league should go to an 18 week schedule(still 16 games per team) and have two bye weeks per team. Fewer games on each week but how many games can you really watch? Eliminate Thursday games but you can extend the season and revenue an extra week will improving the product by allowing teams to be fresher and keep star players on the field more. Additionally, they moves the last two weeks of the season out of competition with college football so you can play a couple of Saturday games on the final two weeks when the games count the most. That pushes the SuperBowl back but who cares, nothing interesting from a sports perspective is happening in mid-February that would conflict with a SuperBowl Sunday.
There is a saturation point... and eventually the NFL will get there. (probably not yet though).
The NFL is a hollywood studio/television network. Its looking to produce/sell content. It's not a sports league.
They want thursday night football, they would love tuesday night football. Hell, they would like to buy the CFL and put on content 4 nights per week. Football draws good ratings compared to reruns of Murphy Brown, and delivers the key male beer-drinking demo. The NFL loves to produce and sell content. As long as people watch on TV, the NFL will keep selling it.
Honestly, other than bad PR, the NFL doesn't care about full stadiums any longer. Sure, they make money on people at the games, but the VAST MAJORITY of money comes from TV.
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Honestly, other than bad PR, the NFL doesn't care about full stadiums any longer. Sure, they make money on people at the games, but the VAST MAJORITY of money comes from TV.
Agreed. Full stadiums are more about optics for television than they are revenue for the teams.
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Agreed. Full stadiums are more about optics for television than they are revenue for the teams.
I agree with that, but that's what makes the black out rule so stupid. They seem complete blind to the optics of the Packers not having a game on tv. It won't be blacked out but the damage is done from a PR standpoint because the possibility is mind boggling enough.
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That is why I think the Packers and the local Fox affiliates end up eating the difference. It's about $350,000 at this point.
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Also, the Super Bowl doesn't need to be moved back if they eliminate the pointless bye week after the conf championships.
Duh, that's the week the Pro Bowl is played. WTF is wrong with that you didn't know that it was the Pro Bowl week. :P
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You have to wonder if the NFL refuses to move on blackout rules, if stadium sizes will shrink or become more complex. Lambeau is the 3rd largest at 80,750 and the highest is the redskins stadium at 85K. The Cowboys have expandable seating with a "sell-out" ranging from 80K to 105K. The new levi stadium will range from 69K to 75K.
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Agreed. Full stadiums are more about optics for television than they are revenue for the teams.
You guys are wrong here, it may be micro/marco view of things, but there's a lot more to it than that.
NFL teams split/made $180 mil per team last season on split revenues (TV, licensing, etc.). Cowboys alone make $75 mil just on premium seating per season. Yes, it's not equal to $180 mil, but combine that with instadium sponsorship, Cowboys made $100 mil last season alone, and you are talking lots of real in stadium revenue. Yes, the Cowboys are at the high end. But there's a reason they are worth over $2 billion.
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You have to wonder if the NFL refuses to move on blackout rules, if stadium sizes will shrink or become more complex. Lambeau is the 3rd largest at 80,750 and the highest is the redskins stadium at 85K. The Cowboys have expandable seating with a "sell-out" ranging from 80K to 105K. The new levi stadium will range from 69K to 75K.
That's actually an interesting one.
If the NFL was re-starting itself from scratch, I imagine the structure would be more about 30-40,000 person stadiums (that have a ton of luxury box and fan-friendly amenities), but then the NFL would try to be in 40-50 markets. The NFL has proven that it can get good enough ratings with "small market" teams.
Maybe the "AFC" plays on Sundays and Thursdays and the "NFC" plays on Sundays and Wednesdays.
I know it sounds crazy, but the NFL makes $ on television content. Therefore, the NFL is looking for ways to maximize it's available content. 50 teams. Spread out the schedule. Maybe buy out the CFL and add those markets as well. Extend the season to 20 weeks. Make the playoffs larger/longer. Add some players to the rosters (to satisfy the union).
The quality of football would go down, but they would have more content to sell... and the NFL is about quantity, not quality right now. They don't make more money with "better football", but they do make more money with "more football".
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You guys are wrong here, it may be micro/marco view of things, but there's a lot more to it than that.
NFL teams split/made $180 mil per team last season on split revenues (TV, licensing, etc.). Cowboys alone make $75 mil just on premium seating per season. Yes, it's not equal to $180 mil, but combine that with instadium sponsorship, Cowboys made $100 mil last season alone, and you are talking lots of real in stadium revenue. Yes, the Cowboys are at the high end. But there's a reason they are worth over $2 billion.
When season ticket sales go down, the NFL will get nervous.
There is money to be made in attendance, but I don't think single game tickets (even playoffs) make much of a dent. SEASON tickets, and corporate sales certainly make a dent.
Don't get me wrong, (insert owner) would LOVE a sold out playoff game. But, in reality, it's not that much of the pie. TV is king, especially to the league office.
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That's actually an interesting one.
If the NFL was re-starting itself from scratch, I imagine the structure would be more about 30-40,000 person stadiums (that have a ton of luxury box and fan-friendly amenities), but then the NFL would try to be in 40-50 markets. The NFL has proven that it can get good enough ratings with "small market" teams.
Maybe the "AFC" plays on Sundays and Thursdays and the "NFC" plays on Sundays and Wednesdays.
I know it sounds crazy, but the NFL makes $ on television content. Therefore, the NFL is looking for ways to maximize it's available content. 50 teams. Spread out the schedule. Maybe buy out the CFL and add those markets as well. Extend the season to 20 weeks. Make the playoffs larger/longer. Add some players to the rosters (to satisfy the union).
The quality of football would go down, but they would have more content to sell... and the NFL is about quantity, not quality right now. They don't make more money with "better football", but they do make more money with "more football".
Interesting take, but what markets would it expand to? What markets are left that can support an NFL team? Portland? Las Vegas? LA? Toronto?
Beyond the 4 I just mentioned, I'm just not sure there are 10 to 20 more markets to expand to, as you suggest.
I also think that you really start watering down the product at some point that it really denigrates the whole thing. Not sure what that point is, but 40 teams is probably pretty close. I mean, there aren't even 20 good QBs in the league right now. If you add 10 more teams, some of these games could be pretty brutal to watch.
I honestly think in professional sports, 30-35 teams is the perfect amount. That seems to be about where all the major leagues for all sports ended up. Maybe in 20-30 years, if population growth keeps up, that number will grow to 40ish but I just don't think the market is big enough yet.
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That's what is out there now. The language of it all is what will be telling. Is he getting salary/bonus all guaranteed in those first 3 years? The bonus will be guaranteed, but did they front load it so heavily with all guaranteed money for three years, and then be able to walk away after year 3 with no dead money?
Actually better for Bears than franchising him for the next 2 years. Don't know what franchise tag would be - but guessing it is around $18. The difference being that if they franchise him, that entire $18 mil goes on the cap next year, whereas I am sure the contract was structured for a much smaller hit the next couple years. Important because of all of the defensive needs.
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Interesting take, but what markets would it expand to? What markets are left that can support an NFL team? Portland? Las Vegas? LA? Toronto?
Beyond the 4 I just mentioned, I'm just not sure there are 10 to 20 more markets to expand to, as you suggest.
I also think that you really start watering down the product at some point that it really denigrates the whole thing. Not sure what that point is, but 40 teams is probably pretty close.
May be there now when you look at some of the starting QBs in the league. They can't find 20 quality QBs let alone upping it to 40.
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May be there now when you look at some of the starting QBs in the league. They can't find 20 quality QBs let alone upping it to 40.
Just added that exact same thing to my post :)
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That's actually an interesting one.
If the NFL was re-starting itself from scratch, I imagine the structure would be more about 30-40,000 person stadiums (that have a ton of luxury box and fan-friendly amenities), but then the NFL would try to be in 40-50 markets. The NFL has proven that it can get good enough ratings with "small market" teams.
Maybe the "AFC" plays on Sundays and Thursdays and the "NFC" plays on Sundays and Wednesdays.
I know it sounds crazy, but the NFL makes $ on television content. Therefore, the NFL is looking for ways to maximize it's available content. 50 teams. Spread out the schedule. Maybe buy out the CFL and add those markets as well. Extend the season to 20 weeks. Make the playoffs larger/longer. Add some players to the rosters (to satisfy the union).
The quality of football would go down, but they would have more content to sell... and the NFL is about quantity, not quality right now. They don't make more money with "better football", but they do make more money with "more football".
Don't see it happening. You would dilute the fanbase and have diminishing returns. Wisconsin wouldn't be gaining that many more eyeballs since we view the Packers as the the team for the whole state. Plus fans would lose interest. Parity is nice when there are 30 teams, but if you double that it and only have a 1 in 50 chance of being champions with a crappy QB, it takes away the fun. Look at this thread, there are only a few tier 1 qbs. Imagine the crappy qbs if there were 50 teams.
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They don't make more money with "better football", but they do make more money with "more football".
There will be a saturation point, would anybody watch Tuesday night football with Portland vs Salt Lake? Could they sell that to advertisers?
I have no idea.
I do think the NFL in its current format might be at it's peak... so I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. But, if you are asking me what the NFL would do, I believe they think they could package and sell any team at any time.
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When season ticket sales go down, the NFL will get nervous.
There is money to be made in attendance, but I don't think single game tickets (even playoffs) make much of a dent. SEASON tickets, and corporate sales certainly make a dent.
Don't get me wrong, (insert owner) would LOVE a sold out playoff game. But, in reality, it's not that much of the pie. TV is king, especially to the league office.
I get at what you're saying, and you're not wrong in that regard. But there's a reason the Vikes aren't playing in the Metrodome any more. There's a reason the Raiders are valued so low. There's a reason the Pack expanded Lambeau and there's a reason Jerry World was built.
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Don't see it happening. You would dilute the fanbase and have diminishing returns. Wisconsin wouldn't be gaining that many more eyeballs since we view the Packers as the the team for the whole state. Plus fans would lose interest. Parity is nice when there are 30 teams, but if you double that it and only have a 1 in 50 chance of being champions with a crappy QB, it takes away the fun. Look at this thread, there are only a few tier 1 qbs. Imagine the crappy qbs if there were 50 teams.
Well, my scenario was only if they were starting from scratch. Obviously the current infrastructure changes it. The NFL isn't going to 50 teams anytime soon.
However, I think some people are putting too much value on quality of football and/or loyalty of fans.
In the past 20 years, the NFL has seen a massive growth in out of market viewing (loyalty) and people will watch crappy football (look at the crappy thursday night ratings, or the ratings of crappy bowl games).
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You have to wonder if the NFL refuses to move on blackout rules, if stadium sizes will shrink or become more complex. Lambeau is the 3rd largest at 80,750 and the highest is the redskins stadium at 85K. The Cowboys have expandable seating with a "sell-out" ranging from 80K to 105K. The new levi stadium will range from 69K to 75K.
I think this makes a ton of sense, and I see the NBA going this direction as well. I think smaller stadiums forces scarcity that may defray some of the lost revenue from ticket volume as well as playing into the market pricing concept Dish talked about. Additionally, stadiums can be built "cheaper" and fan experience could improve with a reduced stress on stadium infrastructure. Lastly you could improve home field advantage by designing the stadium to trap noise like the Seahawks do.
I think the NBA definitely goes in that direction. 8,000-12,000 person stadiums that are relatively easy to sell out with internet and entertainment options for a great fan experience. More intimate and enjoyable to watch than sitting in the noise bleeds.
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Well, my scenario was only if they were starting from scratch. Obviously the current infrastructure changes it. The NFL isn't going to 50 teams anytime soon.
However, I think some people are putting too much value on quality of football and/or loyalty of fans.
In the past 20 years, the NFL has seen a massive growth in out of market viewing (loyalty) and people will watch crappy football (look at the crappy thursday night ratings, or the ratings of crappy bowl games).
One could argue that college football and college basketball prove this point. They get great ratings and when compared to the professionals are a "crappy" version of the product.
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I get at what you're saying, and you're not wrong in that regard. But there's a reason the Vikes aren't playing in the Metrodome any more. There's a reason the Raiders are valued so low. There's a reason the Pack expanded Lambeau and there's a reason Jerry World was built.
You're right. The OWNERS make a lot of money off of tickets/parking/food. And, its basically "free" because taxpayers fund the stadiums (in some cases).
The league doesn't particularly care. They want the television revenue and ad sales. The league is basically just a television network now. It produces content, packages it, and sells it. The owners obviously have influence with the league, but I don't think the league office is going to freak out about attendance of a few playoff games.
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One could argue that college football and college basketball prove this point. They get great ratings and when compared to the professionals are a "crappy" version of the product.
Right, although major colleges have built in loyalties/traditions/alumni. I watch MU, but I don't watch crappy NBA teams.
However, if you look specifically at crappy bowl games (insert crap school against insert crap school) in a corporate sponsored bowl game, you'll see that people do actually watch... which is shocking.
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Well, my scenario was only if they were starting from scratch. Obviously the current infrastructure changes it. The NFL isn't going to 50 teams anytime soon.
However, I think some people are putting too much value on quality of football and/or loyalty of fans.
In the past 20 years, the NFL has seen a massive growth in out of market viewing (loyalty) and people will watch crappy football (look at the crappy thursday night ratings, or the ratings of crappy bowl games).
Exactly. "Starting from scratch" was the key phrase (though maybe "have a do-over" might support my statements more). 50 teams would be doable with smaller stadiums. Just look at college football. In 2012, there were 60 teams that averaged at least 40k per game. The average home attendance for a Big East team was nearly 35k. Sun Belt teams averaged over 20k/game. If there was an established pro team in Little Rock or Louisville or Hartford, they could draw 40k/game.
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nm
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You're right. The OWNERS make a lot of money off of tickets/parking/food. And, its basically "free" because taxpayers fund the stadiums (in some cases).
The league doesn't particularly care. They want the television revenue and ad sales. The league is basically just a television network now. It produces content, packages it, and sells it. The owners obviously have influence with the league, but I don't think the league office is going to freak out about attendance of a few playoff games.
This is well said, and I meant in an earlier post to point out the taxpayer funded stadiums, huge point there. That is why the league will freak out though. Taxpayer funded stadiums that don't sell out in the playoffs and said taxpayer then can not watch the game is a big problem. Especially when the league wants to keep leveraging taxpayer dollars for new stadiums down the road.
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Exactly. "Starting from scratch" was the key phrase (though maybe "have a do-over" might support my statements more). 50 teams would be doable with smaller stadiums. Just look at college football. In 2012, there were 60 teams that averaged at least 40k per game. The average home attendance for a Big East team was nearly 35k. Sun Belt teams averaged over 20k/game. If there was an established pro team in Little Rock or Louisville or Hartford, they could draw 40k/game.
There's a weird sense of loyalty with college sports. People like it cause it's more "pure" and alumni want their degree to have more shine. I don't think that happens as much in pro sports.
Packers have that pureness to them but it's mostly due to their history and uniqueness. I think having that many teams would cause ratings similar to the Bucks.
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This is well said, and I meant in an earlier post to point out the taxpayer funded stadiums, huge point there. That is why the league will freak out though. Taxpayer funded stadiums that don't sell out in the playoffs and said taxpayer then can not watch the game is a big problem. Especially when the league wants to keep leveraging taxpayer dollars for new stadiums down the road.
That's why I don't understand the blackout rule. I'm not going to the game because it might be blacked out. It's as if the NFL is creating it's own tiger pit to fall into.
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There's a weird sense of loyalty with college sports. People like it cause it's more "pure" and alumni want their degree to have more shine. I don't think that happens as much in pro sports.
Packers have that pureness to them but it's mostly due to their history and uniqueness. I think having that many teams would cause ratings similar to the Bucks.
I agree with this, but look at the EPL, there are small city teams with rabid followers and a loyal fan base. If you "localized" an NFL team that had it's own traditions you could generate that same look at feel. Hell, look at the Seattle and Portland franchises in MLS, they sell out every game and is a great atmosphere, you could recreate that with "smaller" franchises. You think Omaha wouldn't be crazy fanatical about having an NFL franchise and stadium that seats 40,000?
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That's why I don't understand the blackout rule. I'm not going to the game because it might be blacked out. It's as if the NFL is creating it's own tiger pit to fall into.
You're right, fair debate and point.
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This is well said, and I meant in an earlier post to point out the taxpayer funded stadiums, huge point there. That is why the league will freak out though. Taxpayer funded stadiums that don't sell out in the playoffs and said taxpayer then can not watch the game is a big problem. Especially when the league wants to keep leveraging taxpayer dollars for new stadiums down the road.
Right. From a PR perspective, the league cares.
But, from a "OMG, it's not a sell-out!" perspective (which is what people are acting like in some sections of the media), the league doesn't care.
Also, I'm surprised the league even has blackout rules at this point.
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NFL just extended the deadline until tomorrow. 3000 more to sell.
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Another complicating factor in this is the Packers' ownership structure. I'm sure a lot of "owners" are going to be pissed that their team didn't buy back its tickets so they could watch the game.
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Is anyone seriously worried that it will be blacked out though?
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Another complicating factor in this is the Packers' ownership structure. I'm sure a lot of "owners" are going to be pissed that their team didn't buy back its tickets so they could watch the game.
This is a very solid point.
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This is a very solid point.
I don't know. It's not like the owners actually own the team. I own a share and I don't feel I have any say on how the organization to spend its money. I would be more upset if a greedy owner was pocketing money.
So the NFL has rules that it can't discount prices or are they just afraid to piss off previous buyers? I mean the NFL is probably the only sport not constantly having ticket price reductions.
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The Packers should have bought the remaining tickets and donated them to Boys &Girls club, etc, the second they remained on the market long enough for this to become an issue. So much of the Packers value and prestige is tied up in the (sometimes overwrought) small town, historical prestige that it was foolish to allow a couple thousand dollars to tarnish that from a PR perspective. The sense of overwhelming demand drives demand better than anything, and it's not like this would be common occurrence. Season tix are sold out forever and you probably won't have a playoff season with this little excitement/advance notice ever again.
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The Packers should have bought the remaining tickets and donated them to Boys &Girls club, etc, the second they remained on the market long enough for this to become an issue. So much of the Packers value and prestige is tied up in the (sometimes overwrought) small town, historical prestige that it was foolish to allow a couple thousand dollars to tarnish that from a PR perspective. The sense of overwhelming demand drives demand better than anything, and it's not like this would be common occurrence. Season tix are sold out forever and you probably won't have a playoff season with this little excitement/advance notice ever again.
I suspect that's exactly what'll happen tomorrow afternoon if there are still 1000 left. More likely be a combination of local sponsors.
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I don't know. It's not like the owners actually own the team. I own a share and I don't feel I have any say on how the organization to spend its money. I would be more upset if a greedy owner was pocketing money.
That's not quite what I mean. I mean that the Packers feel that they have a responsibility to its "owners" that the game be televised. An owner who pockets money has profit motive at least. The Packers while needing to be fiscally responsible, have acted to benefit its fans before and a lot of people would feel it should now.
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The Packers should have bought the remaining tickets and donated them to Boys &Girls club, etc, the second they remained on the market long enough for this to become an issue. So much of the Packers value and prestige is tied up in the (sometimes overwrought) small town, historical prestige that it was foolish to allow a couple thousand dollars to tarnish that from a PR perspective. The sense of overwhelming demand drives demand better than anything, and it's not like this would be common occurrence. Season tix are sold out forever and you probably won't have a playoff season with this little excitement/advance notice ever again.
Send the kiddies out in -10 weather ;D
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That's not quite what I mean. I mean that the Packers feel that they have a responsibility to its "owners" that the game be televised. An owner who pockets money has profit motive at least. The Packers while needing to be fiscally responsible, have acted to benefit its fans before and a lot of people would feel it should now.
don't forget all of the "assistant coaches" out there too.
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I wish Tom Coughlin was coaching in this game.
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I wish Tom Coughlin was coaching in this game.
Because of the beet face?
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I wish Tom Coughlin was coaching in this game.
First thing I thought of was his puffy red face at the end of that NFC championship game. This game will be worse. New forecast has negative 5 as a freaking high temp.
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Send the kiddies out in -10 weather ;D
Uffda. Yeah, that's a good point. ;D Give to corporate sponsors maybe? Point being, team shouldn't have allowed the "packers fans are the best, all tix sold out for forever" narrative to be challenged.
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Because of the beet face?
Yes sir, wasn't sure skin could turn that color.
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Cutler's final contract numbers are interesting. Each side can certainly consider it a win.
There is no signing bonus, Cutler will get one time payments each March. $22.5 million this year, $15.5 next year, $16 in 2016. With no bonus, those will be his yearly cap hits as well. All that is guaranteed, so cutting Cutler in March 2016 would be $16 mil of dead money that season.
I had heard the hometown discount he took was 10%, which now I understand, as if he was franchised the next 3 years, his cap hit would be almost right at $60 mil.
Interesting part of the deal are the remaining years. There are small workout bonuses, but $0 guaranteed money. In 2017, Cutler would be due $12.5 mil. $13.5 in 2018, escalating to $17.5 and $19.2 in final two years. He'll never see the last two years, but be interesting in 2017/2018, where Bears would have a bargain (assuming no re-negotiation).
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Cutler's final contract numbers are interesting. Each side can certainly consider it a win.
There is no signing bonus, Cutler will get one time payments each March. $22.5 million this year, $15.5 next year, $16 in 2016. With no bonus, those will be his yearly cap hits as well. All that is guaranteed, so cutting Cutler in March 2016 would be $16 mil of dead money that season.
I had heard the hometown discount he took was 10%, which now I understand, as if he was franchised the next 3 years, his cap hit would be almost right at $60 mil.
Interesting part of the deal are the remaining years. There are small workout bonuses, but $0 guaranteed money. In 2017, Cutler would be due $12.5 mil. $13.5 in 2018, escalating to $17.5 and $19.2 in final two years. He'll never see the last two years, but be interesting in 2017/2018, where Bears would have a bargain (assuming no re-negotiation).
Most interesting is the cap hit they take next year - a year where they certainly need to re-build the defense. I figured the reason they signed him rather than franchising the next 2 years was so that they could delay any big cap hit for a couple years.
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Most interesting is the cap hit they take next year - a year where they certainly need to re-build the defense. I figured the reason they signed him rather than franchising the next 2 years was so that they could delay any big cap hit for a couple years.
What these numbers in year one tell me are that they have some plan in place. Based on the comments by Emery today, Peppers seems to be done. He would be $8 mil of dead money, but he would have been $16-$18 mil if not cut. I have to believe Tillman isn't back and I believe Bush will get cut. After Peppers gets cut, I believe they'd have $50 mil in cap space, minus 22 mil now with Cutler and whatever the Slauson/Jennings deals are. Figure they have about $25 mil left, but still 20 something roster spots left.
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What these numbers in year one tell me are that they have some plan in place. Based on the comments by Emery today, Peppers seems to be done. He would be $8 mil of dead money, but he would have been $16-$18 mil if not cut. I have to believe Tillman isn't back and I believe Bush will get cut. After Peppers gets cut, I believe they'd have $50 mil in cap space, minus 22 mil now with Cutler and whatever the Slauson/Jennings deals are. Figure they have about $25 mil left, but still 20 something roster spots left.
Well, as a GB fan, I have to admit that it looks like Emery has a plan - something I never saw with Angelo. He did a masterful job with the offensive line (though Mills really doesn't impress). I guess this year we'll see what he can do on the other side of the ball. They don't need a top 5 defense anymore, but something in the 10-15 range would certainly make getting to the playoffs and possibly advancing seem like a good possibility.
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Cutler's final contract numbers are interesting. Each side can certainly consider it a win.
There is no signing bonus, Cutler will get one time payments each March. $22.5 million this year, $15.5 next year, $16 in 2016. With no bonus, those will be his yearly cap hits as well. All that is guaranteed, so cutting Cutler in March 2016 would be $16 mil of dead money that season.
I had heard the hometown discount he took was 10%, which now I understand, as if he was franchised the next 3 years, his cap hit would be almost right at $60 mil.
Interesting part of the deal are the remaining years. There are small workout bonuses, but $0 guaranteed money. In 2017, Cutler would be due $12.5 mil. $13.5 in 2018, escalating to $17.5 and $19.2 in final two years. He'll never see the last two years, but be interesting in 2017/2018, where Bears would have a bargain (assuming no re-negotiation).
That's good structure for the Bears. Looks like 15 is the season for then to bring out all together.
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I think too that they think McCown is going to get a crazy offer in the open market. Seems like Cutler was coming back all along, they had as much control as they could in that situation. They can't re-sign McCown until the new league year starts. Already rumblings that Lovie is going to go hard after McCown. They love McCown, but realize he's 34, if he's getting a 2-3 year offer for anything over $5 mil guaranteed, they didn't want to be in that position.
Cutler may get injured again, he may suck, but it was the best deal most likely for both sides and for the sake of continuity.
Mills will make a decent back up someday, it seems though like Long is moving to tackle.
Completely unrelated, I love Clinton Dix, and am terrified that the Packers will probably draft him.
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Completely unrelated, I love Clinton Dix, and am terrified that the Packers will probably draft him.
Both teams could really use him
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Both teams could really use him
The Bears will get the first shot at drafting him, which is why they intentionally lost the Week 17 game. All part of the plan ;)
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Cutler's final contract numbers are interesting. Each side can certainly consider it a win.
There is no signing bonus, Cutler will get one time payments each March. $22.5 million this year, $15.5 next year, $16 in 2016. With no bonus, those will be his yearly cap hits as well. All that is guaranteed, so cutting Cutler in March 2016 would be $16 mil of dead money that season.
I had heard the hometown discount he took was 10%, which now I understand, as if he was franchised the next 3 years, his cap hit would be almost right at $60 mil.
Interesting part of the deal are the remaining years. There are small workout bonuses, but $0 guaranteed money. In 2017, Cutler would be due $12.5 mil. $13.5 in 2018, escalating to $17.5 and $19.2 in final two years. He'll never see the last two years, but be interesting in 2017/2018, where Bears would have a bargain (assuming no re-negotiation).
Thanks for the breakdown. Looks like a great contract. It's basically a 3-year deal for $54M followed by 2 option years since, like you said, he's not going to see those last 2 years.
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Completely unrelated, I love Clinton Dix, and am terrified that the Packers will probably draft him.
HA HA
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Thanks for the breakdown. Looks like a great contract. It's basically a 3-year deal for $54M followed by 2 option years since, like you said, he's not going to see those last 2 years.
It seems as though it was an easy decision for them, but even now seeing the details, I have to admit I don't know what I think. They didn't have a lot of options with Cutler, so in that regard, its not bad. on the other hand, he's being paid (cap and guarantee) like Drew Breese and Tom Brady. I cannot really get on board with that, thought understand it is the cost of doing business.
Here's where I really struggle with it...it seems clear that Peppers, Tillman, and and probably DJ Williams are going away, and Lance Briggs gets another birthday card. They have to find 2 new safeties, and D line help beyond replacing Peppers. I just don't think they have enough draft picks to get it done. If Cutler was Drew Brees or AAron Rodgers, I'd have no problem with it, but I think all agree, he's not. Beyond that, Brandon Marshall and Matt Forte each continue to get older as well. By the time the D is shored up, what do they have left?
Finally, in a draft that appears to be very rich in QB prospects, coupled with Tretman's system that appears doesn't require a guy that is overly gifted physically, could you draft and develop a guy over the next couple years, that would allow you to rebuild the defense quicker with the money you save?
Even with that last item, I appear to yave put myself right back between the rock and a hard place. This is truly a damned if you do, damned if you don't. I probably wouldn't have done it, but its close.
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54 mil over the next three years.
Not bad.
That's only 1 mil per INT, give or take.
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I think the chance of success through signing Culter and then drafting and signing some street FAs to help rebuild your defense is a lot greater than the chance of success through drafting a quarterback, and having more $$ to slightly upgrade the FAs you sign on the defense.
Everyone points to Russell Wilson and Nick Foles as decent mind round picks, but what if you end up with someone more like a Jake Locker or a Blaine Gabbert? You have now set your franchise back even further, and no matter how good your defense is, you aren't going anywhere.
The Bears can win a championship with Cutler. Hell, they were one game away from the Super Bowl just a few years ago with him. Will they? Who knows. But I think their chances are much better with him.
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It seems as though it was an easy decision for them, but even now seeing the details, I have to admit I don't know what I think. They didn't have a lot of options with Cutler, so in that regard, its not bad. on the other hand, he's being paid (cap and guarantee) like Drew Breese and Tom Brady. I cannot really get on board with that, thought understand it is the cost of doing business.
He's wher I really struggle with it...it seems clear that Peppers, Tillman, and and probably DJ Williams are going away, and Lance Briggs gets another birthday card. They have to find 2 new safeties, and D line help beyond replacing Peppers. I just don't think they have enough draft picks to get it done. If Cutler was Drew Brees or AAron Rodgers, I'd have no problem with it, but I think all agree, he's not. Beyond that, Brandon Marshall and Matt Forte each continue to get older as well. By the time the D is shored up, what do they have left?
Finally, in a draft that appears to be very rich in QB prospects, coupled with Tretman's system that appears doesn't require a guy that is overly gifted physically. Could you draft and develop a guy over the next couple years, that would allow you to rebuild the defense quicker with the money you save.
Even with that last item, I appear to yave put myself right back between the rock and a hard place. This is truly a damned if you do, damned if you don't. I probably wouldn't have done it, but its close.
They know what they have in Cutler. Thats one position where they do not need to burn a draft choice. Drafting a qb is a crapshoot and you may very well get someone who doesn't pan out. Then you would have a hole at qb and the other positions you mentioned. At least this way they have some certainty and continuity at the most important positon on the team.
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What happens to Cutler in 2015 and '16 at that low salary? If his next 3 years are decent does he hold out for what the average starting QB makes those years? Pretty hard to imagine he'd be happy at $12.5M if by then 20 QB's are making more.
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What happens to Cutler in 2015 and '16 at that low salary? If his next 3 years are decent does he hold out for what the average starting QB makes those years? Pretty hard to imagine he'd be happy at $12.5M if by then 20 QB's are making more.
If he's playing well at that point, this would be a good problem to have.
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What happens to Cutler in 2015 and '16 at that low salary? If his next 3 years are decent does he hold out for what the average starting QB makes those years? Pretty hard to imagine he'd be happy at $12.5M if by then 20 QB's are making more.
My bad, as I didn't realize it until this morning. Cutler has a weekly roster bonus that starts in 2017, that looks to be a mechanism to keep him from holding out. If Cutler is on the active roster, each week, he'll get (approx) $150,000 bonus each week. He could certainly still hold out, but it appears the Bears added that language to help prevent a hold out.
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To Navin's point, I agree and can't argue with any of that. The defense is historically bad, there's no young playmaker to build around on that side either. Even by letting Peppers go, that's still 7.5 sacks to replace. Shea does not know how to play in the NFL, Bostic and Greene did not progress, their safeties are a joke. My guess is they would love for Mosley to fall to them at 14 (I think he'll be long gone), and maybe then they look at Clinton Dix. But whoever that pick is is just 1 piece, and even that piece isn't automatically great. If they go S, LB, CB in their first three picks, those three guys need to contribute right away. They still have no pass rush at all.
The allocation of salary cap is the great debate. I think they saw what their offense is and becoming and invested in continuity on that side of the ball. Even if they didn't sign Cutler, it wasn't/isn't a slam dunk McCown is coming back.
Just saw Tim Jennings contract numbers. Did not expect $12 mil guaranteed. Now I'm not sure where else they can spend after Cutler, Jennings, Slauson, Gould.
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The Bears can win a championship with Cutler. Hell, they were one game away from the Super Bowl just a few years ago with him. Will they? Who knows. But I think their chances are much better with him.
Quite the rosy picture if the glass is 80% full.
I see it as 80% empty. One game from the Super Bowl sounds rosy. In actuality, through 8 years he has won 1 playoff game (only led one team to playoffs) and that was against a team that was below .500. That's it, folks.
Once to the playoffs and once to Pro Bowl in 8 years. And that gets you $18 mil a year? Isn't life great for Jay!!
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My bad, as I didn't realize it until this morning. Cutler has a weekly roster bonus that starts in 2017, that looks to be a mechanism to keep him from holding out. If Cutler is on the active roster, each week, he'll get (approx) $150,000 bonus each week. He could certainly still hold out, but it appears the Bears added that language to help prevent a hold out.
While athletes making $15-20 million/year is obviously an absurd amount of money, seeing this just makes it disgusting. Most people would do just about anything to make $150,000/year, and some of these athletes are making that and more in a week. Wrong in so many ways.
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Just saw Tim Jennings contract numbers. Did not expect $12 mil guaranteed. Now I'm not sure where else they can spend after Cutler, Jennings, Slauson, Gould.
Wonder what the number is on Slauson. ProFootballFocus had him rated as the 6th best guard in the league.
Interestingly, Jennings was 55th best cornerback. He obviously had his best year he'll ever have in 2012, but with nothing else back there, I think the Bears had no choice with his signing.
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While athletes making $15-20 million/year is obviously an absurd amount of money, seeing this just makes it disgusting. Most people would do just about anything to make $150,000/year, and some of these athletes are making that and more in a week. Wrong in so many ways.
I get what you're saying, but it's really just a matter of a cap work around. Most NFL players get a bonus for simply showing up to the team facility in March to work out.
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Wonder what the number is on Slauson. ProFootballFocus had him rated as the 6th best guard in the league.
Interestingly, Jennings was 55th best cornerback. He obviously had his best year he'll ever have in 2012, but with nothing else back there, I think the Bears had no choice with his signing.
From a pure coverage stand point, I thought he played really well in 2013. He didn't have as many picks, but he was pretty solid in coverage. I really thought they had to sign him, to at least lock down one corner spot. I thought he'd get $8-$9 mil guaranteed, surprised it was $12.
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I get what you're saying, but it's really just a matter of a cap work around. Most NFL players get a bonus for simply showing up to the team facility in March to work out.
Gotcha. But yeah, I just mean the amount of money these guys are getting is absurd. Granted with taxes being taken out Jay won't see all $22 million, but that breaks down to well over $60,000/day. Dear lord.
I get that the timeframe for which athletes are making money in that profession is extremely short compared to your 9-5 worker, but how in the world do these people run into financial issues? Even if you're one of the lower paid athletes out there, come on. If you're someone who can stick around as a career backup in the NBA (by far the lowest paying of the NFL, MLB, and NBA), you're still going to wind up making probably close to $25 million in your career. For anybody else, making $100,000/year is nothing to sneeze at, and it takes you 10 years to make $1 million. Some athletes are not very intelligent people...
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Gotcha. But yeah, I just mean the amount of money these guys are getting is absurd. Granted with taxes being taken out Jay won't see all $22 million, but that breaks down to well over $60,000/day. Dear lord.
I get that the timeframe for which athletes are making money in that profession is extremely short compared to your 9-5 worker, but how in the world do these people run into financial issues? Even if you're one of the lower paid athletes out there, come on. If you're someone who can stick around as a career backup in the NBA (by far the lowest paying of the NFL, MLB, and NBA), you're still going to wind up making probably close to $25 million in your career. For anybody else, making $100,000/year is nothing to sneeze at, and it takes you 10 years to make $1 million. Some athletes are not very intelligent people...
The money is not absurd because someone is paying it. If the players were not worth it, they would not being getting paid the large amount of money. Some, (maybe many), may not be very intelligent, but they are not being paid for their intelligence they are being paid for their skill set which only a handful of people have. The players or( anyone else )are worth whatever someone is willing to pay them. You may not like it, but that’s the free market.
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Is the QB position really that deep if you were the Bears though?
Teddy will be gone 1 or 2. Bortles and Manziel will be top 5 easily to Raiders/Browns/Jacksonville. Then you're looking at Derek Carr, probably to the Vikings or around there.
Next best options are Boyd, Mettenberger, McCarron (youch!), Hogan and Morris. I don't see a QB to set in and take over past Manziel or Carr, and they are questionable.
It's a good draft to find a backup, but after that the Bears weren't looking at getting a replacement this year.
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Is the QB position really that deep if you were the Bears though?
Teddy will be gone 1 or 2. Bortles and Manziel will be top 5 easily to Raiders/Browns/Jacksonville. Then you're looking at Derek Carr, probably to the Vikings or around there.
Next best options are Boyd, Mettenberger, McCarron (youch!), Hogan and Morris. I don't see a QB to set in and take over past Manziel or Carr, and they are questionable.
It's a good draft to find a backup, but after that the Bears weren't looking at getting a replacement this year.
This is right on too. Looking at this draft, I'm starting to think this QB draft could look a lot like the 2011 QB class (yikes). I like Bridgewater, don't love him. I liked Hundley a lot earlier, but not so much now (he may not even declare). If I'm the Texans, I'd take Clowney. He may end up a bust, but lining him up with Watt is too good for me to pass up. Finding a truly elite pass rusher may be the hardest thing to find in football.
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Please please OAK take Johnny Football. Hilarity would ensue.
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This is right on too. Looking at this draft...l.
How does the draft look for punters? I REALLY feel like we could use one of those. And yes yes I know Podlesh was good at kicks inside the 20, but I feel that is more a product of our offense than his leg.
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How does the draft look for punters? I REALLY feel like we could use one of those. And yes yes I know Podlesh was good at kicks inside the 20, but I feel that is more a product of our offense than his leg.
Punters generally are not drafted. They are signed afterwards. There are some exceptions, but not many
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Punters generally are not drafted. They are signed afterwards. There are some exceptions, but not many
BJ Sander.....third round pick.
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Please please OAK take Johnny Football. Hilarity would ensue.
Yeah, I am hoping the vikings take him, good fit for them. This isn't the Al Davis Raiders anymore, McKenzie is slowly turning around the culture there and making better decisions.
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BJ Sander.....third round pick.
That would be an exception, and an exceptionally stupid draft pick. I recall Bryan Anger was also drafted in the third round, and the Vikings drafted Jeff Locke in the 5th, I think. I really wonder what GMs are thinking when they spend a draft pick on such a low-value position. Trying to grab depth literally anywhere on the roster is better than drafting a punter.
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Looking at the game on Sunday, I still really like the Pack.
It's very difficult to beat a good team 3 teams in one calendar year, especially the third tilt being in Green Bay, and adding in the weather conditions.
I expect some wrinkles from San Fran's offense, but I think it benefits Green Bay's defense to have played San Fran twice in the last year.
Part of the reason I like the Pack is that, let's say the Pack come out, score on the opening drive, and Gore fumbles on the ensuing possession, GB scores again. San Fran's then on their heels, their offensive game plan changes, and I don't believe they have enough firepower to comeback (even against a mediocre Green Bay defense). The opposite though is true too, if the Pack gets down early, at home, with Rodgers back, I believe they have enough to mount a comeback.
If Green Bay protects Rodgers (I believe they will) and Lacy can pound the rock, I like the Pack by 10 on Sunday.
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Punters generally are not drafted. They are signed afterwards. There are some exceptions, but not many
Yea I know, just think CHI needs a new one.
I heard Kluwe is available.
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Yeah, I am hoping the vikings take him, good fit for them. This isn't the Al Davis Raiders anymore, McKenzie is slowly turning around the culture there and making better decisions.
I like the direction of the Bills as well. Buddy Nix is gone so there is nowhere to go but up.
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Yea I know, just think CHI needs a new one.
I heard Kluwe is available.
He is. He's a solid punter too. But I'm not sure anyone would sign him at this point:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10232522/chris-kluwe-former-member-minnesota-vikings-says-was-cut-due-views
I don't even disagree with him. But he will bring a hell of a lot of distractions for anyone who signs him.
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Game is now a sell out. Look for jsglow jr. and me in the crowd. Enjoy your toasty family room.
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Looking at the game on Sunday, I still really like the Pack.
It's very difficult to beat a good team 3 teams in one calendar year, especially the third tilt being in Green Bay, and adding in the weather conditions.
I expect some wrinkles from San Fran's offense, but I think it benefits Green Bay's defense to have played San Fran twice in the last year.
Part of the reason I like the Pack is that, let's say the Pack come out, score on the opening drive, and Gore fumbles on the ensuing possession, GB scores again. San Fran's then on their heels, their offensive game plan changes, and I don't believe they have enough firepower to comeback (even against a mediocre Green Bay defense). The opposite though is true too, if the Pack gets down early, at home, with Rodgers back, I believe they have enough to mount a comeback.
If Green Bay protects Rodgers (I believe they will) and Lacy can pound the rock, I like the Pack by 10 on Sunday.
The thing that worries me the most is that Harbaugh has thoroughly outcoached McCarthy the last 3 times they played... I just really hope that McCarthy and Capers aren't caught with their pants down yet again.
On paper, I also like the Packers chances. I don't think the Niners can control the clock like they have in past meetings - Frank Gore is still a decent back, but he has worn down this year, and I they do have a threatening passing game, but it is inconsistent. Meanwhile, the Niners secondary is probably its weakest link, especially given that Aldon Smith (and accordingly, their pass rush) looks like a ghost of what he was last year and before rehab this year. Hopefully, the run game can provide something against a very, very good run defense. If Rodgers can stay upright and the running game can provide anything, I think the Packers are a really tough out. Nothing like 10 points, IMO, but a very good shot to win.
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Looking at the game on Sunday, I still really like the Pack.
It's very difficult to beat a good team 3 teams in one calendar year, especially the third tilt being in Green Bay, and adding in the weather conditions.
I expect some wrinkles from San Fran's offense, but I think it benefits Green Bay's defense to have played San Fran twice in the last year.
Part of the reason I like the Pack is that, let's say the Pack come out, score on the opening drive, and Gore fumbles on the ensuing possession, GB scores again. San Fran's then on their heels, their offensive game plan changes, and I don't believe they have enough firepower to comeback (even against a mediocre Green Bay defense). The opposite though is true too, if the Pack gets down early, at home, with Rodgers back, I believe they have enough to mount a comeback.
If Green Bay protects Rodgers (I believe they will) and Lacy can pound the rock, I like the Pack by 10 on Sunday.
Well that gives me hope, but I am not as optimistic.
I do think the weather will give the Packers some advantage. Usually I don’t think it matters, but the fact that San Fran flew in today to get acclimated to the weather shows it is already in their head. Also, McCarthy practicing ball handling in the cold weather and the 49ers aren’t at least before today. Having lived in warm climate, I know that you don’t get acclimated to the cold in a couple of days and it does affect you if you are not used to it. Think how 50 degrees would feel to you in July and how it would feel today.
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Gotcha. But yeah, I just mean the amount of money these guys are getting is absurd. Granted with taxes being taken out Jay won't see all $22 million, but that breaks down to well over $60,000/day. Dear lord.
I get that the timeframe for which athletes are making money in that profession is extremely short compared to your 9-5 worker, but how in the world do these people run into financial issues? Even if you're one of the lower paid athletes out there, come on. If you're someone who can stick around as a career backup in the NBA (by far the lowest paying of the NFL, MLB, and NBA), you're still going to wind up making probably close to $25 million in your career. For anybody else, making $100,000/year is nothing to sneeze at, and it takes you 10 years to make $1 million. Some athletes are not very intelligent people...
It's supply and demand, plain and simple.
Nobody would try to claim that Jay Cutler is more valuable to society than a nurse or teacher or firefighter. But you or I or anybody with ambition can become a nurse or teacher or firefighter. In the world, there literally are millions of nurses and teachers and firefighters.
Meanwhile, in the entire world there are 32 starting NFL quarterbacks. In the entire world, there are only 750 ML ballplayers, only 480 NBA basketball players, etc. And of those tiny percentages of society, an even smaller percentage are elite athletes who make "Cutler money."
The same is true of entertainers. There are 7 billion people in the world, but only a few hundred in the class of Jagger, Kanye, Clooney, Streep, etc. It isn't important that you don't think Bieber is in that class; somebody does, and that's all that matters.
Do they deserve that money? What does deserving have to do with anything?
Are they worth that money? They are worth exactly what somebody will pay them -- as are you, me and everybody else.
My only beef is with CEOs of major corporations, especially those who are born into money, get the reins of a company, run said company into the ground, fleece the shareholders, lay off the employees and still either stay in charge or leave with $50 million golden parachutes.
LeBron James was born with great abilities and worked his ass off to become the best in the world at what he does. He deserves every penny somebody wants to pay him. With the proper training, LeBron could learn to be a CEO, and probably a damn good one. No matter how much training a CEO gets, he can't learn to be LeBron.
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I think that whoever scores first in the GB/SF game will get a large advantage. If that doubles into two scores up, the game will be hard to come back from for either team.
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It's supply and demand, plain and simple.
Do they deserve that money? What does deserving have to do with anything?
Are they worth that money? They are worth exactly what somebody will pay them -- as are you, me and everybody else.
The whole answer in a nutshell
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It's supply and demand, plain and simple.
Nobody would try to claim that Jay Cutler is more valuable to society than a nurse or teacher or firefighter. But you or I or anybody with ambition can become a nurse or teacher or firefighter. In the world, there literally are millions of nurses and teachers and firefighters.
Meanwhile, in the entire world there are 32 starting NFL quarterbacks. In the entire world, there are only 750 ML ballplayers, only 480 NBA basketball players, etc. And of those tiny percentages of society, an even smaller percentage are elite athletes who make "Cutler money."
The same is true of entertainers. There are 7 billion people in the world, but only a few hundred in the class of Jagger, Kanye, Clooney, Streep, etc. It isn't important that you don't think Bieber is in that class; somebody does, and that's all that matters.
Do they deserve that money? What does deserving have to do with anything?
Are they worth that money? They are worth exactly what somebody will pay them -- as are you, me and everybody else.
My only beef is with CEOs of major corporations, especially those who are born into money, get the reins of a company, run said company into the ground, fleece the shareholders, lay off the employees and still either stay in charge or leave with $50 million golden parachutes.
LeBron James was born with great abilities and worked his ass off to become the best in the world at what he does. He deserves every penny somebody wants to pay him. With the proper training, LeBron could learn to be a CEO, and probably a damn good one. No matter how much training a CEO gets, he can't learn to be LeBron.
There are lots of professions that are as limited in the numbers capable of performing them that make no where near the money that Athletes/Entertainers/CEOs make. An example is in science. There are literally at most 50-100 people in the world capable of CURING diseases like Cancer/Diabetes. They are making in the 80k-150k range. The Athletes/Entertainers/CEOs make that kind of money largely, because of ingrained culture and historical tendencies, less of actual supply and demand.
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There are lots of professions that are as limited in the numbers capable of performing them that make no where near the money that Athletes/Entertainers/CEOs make. An example is in science. There are literally at most 50-100 people in the world capable of CURING diseases like Cancer/Diabetes. They are making in the 80k-150k range. The Athletes/Entertainers/CEOs make that kind of money largely, because of ingrained culture and historical tendencies, less of actual supply and demand.
I bet there aren't a whole lot of people willing to shell out $125 a piece for a ticket to watch scientists try and cure cancer in 10 below zero tempurature.
Yes it is supply and demand. No knock on scientists or docors or any other profession.
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He is. He's a solid punter too. But I'm not sure anyone would sign him at this point:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10232522/chris-kluwe-former-member-minnesota-vikings-says-was-cut-due-views
I don't even disagree with him. But he will bring a hell of a lot of distractions for anyone who signs him.
He is also known as one of the best field goal/extra point holders in the NFL.
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I bet there aren't a whole lot of people willing to shell out $125 a piece for a ticket to watch scientists try and cure cancer in 10 below zero tempurature.
Yes it is supply and demand. No knock on scientists or docors or any other profession.
If it was supply and demand teams wouldn't be required to spend 89% in cash of the total salary cap...and the amount due to the players wouldn't be required to be 55%.
Also, your average scientist is also teaching at a University, where students are buying $100-$300 tickets per class (per day) to watch scientists who are trying to cure cancer.
Won't really comment much more on this...I just always find it funny when people claim the NFL is supply and demand. There isn't anything supply and demand about the NFL.
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If it was supply and demand teams wouldn't be required to spend 89% in cash of the total salary cap...and the amount due to the players wouldn't be required to be 55%.
Also, your average scientist is also teaching at a University, where students are buying $100-$300 tickets per class (per day) to watch scientists who are trying to cure cancer.
Won't really comment much more on this...I just always find it funny when people claim the NFL is supply and demand. There isn't anything supply and demand about the NFL.
We demand to be entertained - hence if you can sing, dance, act, throw a ball, etc. better than just about anyone else, you will make lots of money.
And there are not a lot of people who can do that. If there were 10,000 Bono's around, Bono wouldn't make what he does.
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If it was supply and demand teams wouldn't be required to spend 89% in cash of the total salary cap...and the amount due to the players wouldn't be required to be 55%.
Also, your average scientist is also teaching at a University, where students are buying $100-$300 tickets per class (per day) to watch scientists who are trying to cure cancer.
Won't really comment much more on this...I just always find it funny when people claim the NFL is supply and demand. There isn't anything supply and demand about the NFL.
You are confusing value to society to popularity. No one is arguing the value of scientists, etc.
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If it was supply and demand teams wouldn't be required to spend 89% in cash of the total salary cap...and the amount due to the players wouldn't be required to be 55%.
Also, your average scientist is also teaching at a University, where students are buying $100-$300 tickets per class (per day) to watch scientists who are trying to cure cancer.
Won't really comment much more on this...I just always find it funny when people claim the NFL is supply and demand. There isn't anything supply and demand about the NFL.
What do the Union negotiations have to do with the supply and demand of quality position players in the NFL?
Fact - There is a quantifiable number of quality players in the NFL, for which there is a quantifiable demand. Based on this supply of players and the employers demand for them their salaries fluctuate.
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He is also known as one of the best field goal/extra point holders in the NFL.
Not many teams put premiums on that. I don't disagree with his views, but he has shown a lot of immaturity from the lockout, to the deadspin article, to posting controversial views. He wasn't that good. He was in the bottom third coming off knee surgery. He kept saying in the article he was told to kick higher for more FC's, yet he was near the bottom in FC's with 12 all year.
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Unless the topic is an "idiot kicker who got liquored up and ran his mouth off. The sad thing is, he's a good kicker. He's a good kicker, but he's an idiot," discussion of an out of work kicker might be one thing that shouldn't clog up a thread on scoop.
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Some interesting chatter out there regarding the Pack/Niners game, and how the NFL could have done a lot more for all involved.
The sexy matchups this weekend are the two NFC games, both the teams involved and TV markets. One of the two NFC games was going to be the Saturday night NBC game. The other was going to be the late game on Sunday.
The NFL could have avoided (or curbed) the potential Packer blackout and some weather concerns by having the Pack/Niners game be the early game on Saturday. It's supposed to be (I believe) mid 20's on Saturday afternoon in Green Bay, and if the late game on Sunday and weather conditions contributed to people not buying tickets, the Saturday afternoon kick may have subsided a lot of those concerns.
I know TV drives everything, but the NFL was short sighted here in hindsight, they had time to plan this out better, and give Packer/Niner fans going to the game more of an opportunity to enjoy being there and prevent a game being played in the forecasted conditions on Sunday.
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Not many teams put premiums on that. I don't disagree with his views, but he has shown a lot of immaturity from the lockout, to the deadspin article, to posting controversial views. He wasn't that good. He was in the bottom third coming off knee surgery. He kept saying in the article he was told to kick higher for more FC's, yet he was near the bottom in FC's with 12 all year.
I agree. I read his entire deadspin article.
He was tweeting about the Pope, called other NFL players D-bags, etc.
It was brave of him to stand up for marriage equality, and I agree with him, but he also kind of strikes me as a guy who just likes the limelight. Not sure you want that in your punter/holder.
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Unless the topic is an "idiot kicker who got liquored up and ran his mouth off. The sad thing is, he's a good kicker. He's a good kicker, but he's an idiot," discussion of an out of work kicker might be one thing that shouldn't clog up a thread on scoop.
It's good to know that you think you should be the arbiter of all things Scoop, but it seems as good as any other topic on the Superbar.
Was he right taking a stand? Yes
Does he come off as someone seeking attention? Yes
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Some interesting chatter out there regarding the Pack/Niners game, and how the NFL could have done a lot more for all involved.
The sexy matchups this weekend are the two NFC games, both the teams involved and TV markets. One of the two NFC games was going to be the Saturday night NBC game. The other was going to be the late game on Sunday.
The NFL could have avoided (or curbed) the potential Packer blackout and some weather concerns by having the Pack/Niners game be the early game on Saturday. It's supposed to be (I believe) mid 20's on Saturday afternoon in Green Bay, and if the late game on Sunday and weather conditions contributed to people not buying tickets, the Saturday afternoon kick may have subsided a lot of those concerns.
I know TV drives everything, but the NFL was short sighted here in hindsight, they had time to plan this out better, and give Packer/Niner fans going to the game more of an opportunity to enjoy being there and prevent a game being played in the forecasted conditions on Sunday.
The only real solution is to wait til Monday to set the games. The NFL may have thought that if the weather was gonna be cold, they were trying to have the GB/SF game start earlier than it would have on a Saturday.
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I agree. I read his entire deadspin article.
He was tweeting about the Pope, called other NFL players D-bags, etc.
It was brave of him to stand up for marriage equality, and I agree with him, but he also kind of strikes me as a guy who just likes the limelight. Not sure you want that in your punter/holder.
Kluwe doesn't get it, but it's very simple. NFL coaches HATE distractions. If you're a marginal NFL player or a kicker/punter, you better not be a distraction. If you're both a marginal NFL player AND a kicker/punter AND a distraction, you're going to be looking for work.
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most kickers/punters have always been a bit 'different'
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Kluwe doesn't get it, but it's very simple. NFL coaches HATE distractions. If you're a marginal NFL player or a kicker/punter, you better not be a distraction. If you're both a marginal NFL player AND a kicker/punter AND a distraction, you're going to be looking for work.
+1
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Kluwe doesn't get it, but it's very simple. NFL coaches HATE distractions. If you're a marginal NFL player or a kicker/punter, you better not be a distraction. If you're both a marginal NFL player AND a kicker/punter AND a distraction, you're going to be looking for work.
+1.
HOWEVER, assuming Kluwe is telling the truth, the special teams coach is a douchebag.
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Kluwe doesn't get it, but it's very simple. NFL coaches HATE distractions. If you're a marginal NFL player or a kicker/punter, you better not be a distraction. If you're both a marginal NFL player AND a kicker/punter AND a distraction, you're going to be looking for work.
While correct, the special teams coach still needs to be looked at heavily. There's no place for that in today's world.
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The other problem Kluwe ran into was he was believing that the circle jerk surrounding him was the majority opinion. And he was a massive dick about it. Could have been mature and rose above, but decided to play down in the muck and insult people.
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There are lots of professions that are as limited in the numbers capable of performing them that make no where near the money that Athletes/Entertainers/CEOs make. An example is in science. There are literally at most 50-100 people in the world capable of CURING diseases like Cancer/Diabetes. They are making in the 80k-150k range. The Athletes/Entertainers/CEOs make that kind of money largely, because of ingrained culture and historical tendencies, less of actual supply and demand.
Even a great scientist is different from a great athlete/entertainer. It's more than there being millions upon millions of people willing to shell out big bucks to watch a great athlete (vs. thousands of students willing to pay big bucks to fund a science professor's research or hundreds of patients willing to pay big bucks to get operated on by an esteemed doctor) -- although that's a part of it.
It's also, again, could I have been a scientist if I really had applied myself in grade school, high school, college and post-grad? I think I could have, and there are lots of people way smarter than me. But could I have been a pro athlete, no matter how much I applied myself? I'm pretty sure I couldn't have been. Again, supply and demand. Any egghead can become a scientist. Even great college athletes often can't become pros.
If it sounds like I'm defending jocks, that isn't my point. I'm just explaining reality. Supply and demand.
Now, some might say, "It's OK that Tom Brady get paid big bucks because he has built quite a career, but Cutler, why should he get that money?" Or even more: "Why does the worst veteran ballplayer on the worst MLB club make seven figures?"
It's STILL supply and demand!
Cutler isn't Tom Brady, but he is still viewed as a top-10 QB who has the potential to be even better than that. Of 7 billion humans on the planet, only 10 can be viewed as top-10 NFL quarterbacks.
There are 750 MLB players. Even the 750th best represents the tiniest, tiniest, tiniest fraction of humans on the planet. I don't know about anyone else out there, but I could not have come even close to being the 750th best ballplayer on the planet.
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While correct, the special teams coach still needs to be looked at heavily. There's no place for that in today's world.
Totally agree.
I don't think either of these guys, Kluwe or the coach, will be getting NFL jobs anytime soon.
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Where's Jaybee on this Kluwe deal? Any insights from someone like him living in MN?
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Where's Jaybee on this Kluwe deal? Any insights from someone like him living in MN?
What do you mean someone like him? Gay?
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What do you mean someone like him? Gay?
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6040/6428900779_9bee2b954a.jpg)
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SKOL!
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Totally agree.
I don't think either of these guys, Kluwe or the coach, will be getting NFL jobs anytime soon.
Wasn't the ST coach getting a look for the head job in MN?
I think at this point Kluwe knows he isn't getting a job. I believe that's why he waited a year to release this, in hopes that last year he would get picked up.
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Wasn't the ST coach getting a look for the head job in MN?
Yes. He was. Have a hard time believing that hasn't changed though. Especially if the owner was as supportive of Kluwe's message as Kluwe claims.
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Wasn't the ST coach getting a look for the head job in MN?
I think at this point Kluwe knows he isn't getting a job. I believe that's why he waited a year to release this, in hopes that last year he would get picked up.
He says that's why he wrote the article.
I would support his article if it focused on the horrible behavior of the coach. Instead, he made it about himself and played the "homophobe" card.
Same thing with Jason Collins. He maybe lost a spot because he came out, but it had nothing to do with him being gay. The guy knew he was very close to being out of the league and wanted the limelight to try to boost his chance at another job.
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He says that's why he wrote the article.
I would support his article if it focused on the horrible behavior of the coach. Instead, he made it about himself and played the "homophobe" card.
Same thing with Jason Collins. He maybe lost a spot because he came out, but it had nothing to do with him being gay. The guy knew he was very close to being out of the league and wanted the limelight to try to boost his chance at another job.
I dunno.
I mean, if I'm Collins or Kluwe, and I'm cashing big checks for playing pro sports, I might not rock the boat too much.
However, if/when my career is almost over (and I have a large bank account), I might be more willing to voice my opinions and views... knowing that it might not help my career, but I've got some f-you money in the bank.
In fact, it's the very definition of f-you money. I wouldn't tell my boss on day 1 to f-off. However, after 10 years and if I know I'm going someplace else, I might tell him that. Same for Kluwe and Collins.
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All of you knuckleheads (meant in an endearing sort of way) going to the Packer game please sport the full snowmobile/hunting regalia. Good lord. I'm beginning to think that the mother-in-law has the right idea-one or two games a year in September/October and sell the rest.
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I'm going now just cause of how many hairy wet cats there are in this day and age. I can tell my grandkids I went to the 30 below game at Lambeau.
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I'm going now just cause of how many hairy wet cats there are in this day and age. I can tell my grandkids I went to the 30 below game at Lambeau.
Better triple wrap the boys, you get frostbitten in the wrong area grandkids ain't in your future.
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Even a great scientist is different from a great athlete/entertainer. It's more than there being millions upon millions of people willing to shell out big bucks to watch a great athlete (vs. thousands of students willing to pay big bucks to fund a science professor's research or hundreds of patients willing to pay big bucks to get operated on by an esteemed doctor) -- although that's a part of it.
It's also, again, could I have been a scientist if I really had applied myself in grade school, high school, college and post-grad? I think I could have, and there are lots of people way smarter than me. But could I have been a pro athlete, no matter how much I applied myself? I'm pretty sure I couldn't have been. Again, supply and demand. Any egghead can become a scientist. Even great college athletes often can't become pros.
If it sounds like I'm defending jocks, that isn't my point. I'm just explaining reality. Supply and demand.
Now, some might say, "It's OK that Tom Brady get paid big bucks because he has built quite a career, but Cutler, why should he get that money?" Or even more: "Why does the worst veteran ballplayer on the worst MLB club make seven figures?"
It's STILL supply and demand!
Cutler isn't Tom Brady, but he is still viewed as a top-10 QB who has the potential to be even better than that. Of 7 billion humans on the planet, only 10 can be viewed as top-10 NFL quarterbacks.
There are 750 MLB players. Even the 750th best represents the tiniest, tiniest, tiniest fraction of humans on the planet. I don't know about anyone else out there, but I could not have come even close to being the 750th best ballplayer on the planet.
Our societies' priorities sure are screwed up.
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+1.
HOWEVER, assuming Kluwe is telling the truth, the special teams coach is a douchebag.
The special teams coach completely denies saying any of this. When the players in the meeting come out and tell the truth we may find out who is lying because either the coach or Kluwe are lying.
I posted my original post in jest/teal.
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Hochuli go sleeveless Sunday in Lambeau?
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Hochuli go sleeveless Sunday in Lambeau?
Shirtless.
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Kluwe's a jerkbait loser who always has been a bit of a sideshow weirdo. His gay (and other) rants over the years have endeared him to non-sports lovers.
I don't know what was said... don't so much care unless I know the exact words, context, etc.
All I know is Kluwe's a d-head. Glad he's long gone.
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Kluwe's a jerkbait loser who always has been a bit of a sideshow weirdo. His gay (and other) rants over the years have endeared him to non-sports lovers.
I don't know what was said... don't so much care unless I know the exact words, context, etc.
All I know is Kluwe's a d-head. Glad he's long gone.
He has never gone on a "gay rant" - his "rants" were about equal rights under the constitution.
It's also telling that you accuse him of a 'gay rant' and then proceed to say you don't know what was said. Says more about you than him, methinks.
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Lovie and Leslie in TB? Man... who's gonna control that over-enthusiastic coaching staff?
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Lovie and Leslie in TB? Man... who's gonna control that over-enthusiastic coaching staff?
Maybe they could dig up Tom Landry and prop him up on the sidelines.
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Maybe they could dig up Tom Landry and prop him up on the sidelines.
Jim Caldwell to complete the team.
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He has never gone on a "gay rant" - his "rants" were about equal rights under the constitution.
It's also telling that you accuse him of a 'gay rant' and then proceed to say you don't know what was said. Says more about you than him, methinks.
Learn to read/comprehend, young lefty. I said I don't know what was said by the special teams coach and in what context. I know EXACTLY what Kluwe has said over the years (i.e., gay rants).
Says plenty about you, meknow.
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Learn to read/comprehend, young lefty. I said I don't know what was said by the special teams coach and in what context. I know EXACTLY what Kluwe has said over the years (i.e., gay rants).
Says plenty about you, meknow.
Your use of the term "gay rant" to describe kluwe's support of marriage equality is awfully ignorant.
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Nm
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Learn to read/comprehend, young lefty.
That's funny.
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what exactly does young lefty mean
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is there any phrase to use other than "epic choke" to describe what the chiefs just did?
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Your use of the term "gay rant" to describe kluwe's support of marriage equality is awfully ignorant.
Your use of the word ignorant is stoopid.
Your assumption that "gay rant" was used by me to describe Kluwe's support of marriage equality is awfully ignorant.
Go buy his band's CD and rock out, dude.
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Anthony Davis not a fan of visiting Green Bay apparently. Within the same tweet though, we learned Naitch gave the pregame speech. Naitch loves visiting Wisconsin apparently.
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Saints to Seattle. Looking forward to that. Plus if the packers win they play next Sunday which means I can go to my kids daughter, father dance and not miss the packer game. Good weekend for me. So far.
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It's currently 5 degrees in Green Bay. The temp will drop after the sun sets, but it's not going to be "Ice Bowl" cold. And no, I wouldn't care to sit in it, but the hype machine was running a little too hot the past few days.
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It's currently 5 degrees in Green Bay. The temp will drop after the sun sets, but it's not going to be "Ice Bowl" cold. And no, I wouldn't care to sit in it, but the hype machine was running a little too hot the past few days.
The wind will not be fun. The bad weather is just delayed a little. The high temp tomorrow will be around minus 15. That's why you can't schedule around the weather a week in advance
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Those 4 points left on the field at end of the first half cost the Pack in the end.
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Please be gone now, Capers. Who would have thought that Kaeperneck would run the ball?
2012 - best rushing game of year in playoffs vs. GB
2013 - best rushing game of year in playoffs vs. GB
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why were the Packers running with Cobb inside the 10? And calling spread passes multiple times inside the red zone? It seems like the packers forget about their running game between the 30 and the 2.
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Not capers fault. You have to make an interception when it hits you in the hands. That was the game right there. Bush rushes inside breaking contain outside also killed them. They were down to no outside linebackers and playing without their best corner and pass rusher. How is that capers fault.
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why were the Packers running with Cobb inside the 10? And calling spread passes multiple times inside the red zone? It seems like the packers forget about their running game between the 30 and the 2.
This. McCarthy is an idiot sometimes. Whole fricken stadium can see what's happening, chanting, "Eddie! Eddie! Eddie!" Lacy and Starks are gnashing the crap out of SF. They get a first and goal and neither one touches the ball. Ridiculous. Sometimes there is just no reason to over think things. The FG is worth just as much if the defense stops you from doing what's been working.
Defense didn't come up big at the end, but they did enough. Offense and play calling was not good.
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This. McCarthy is an idiot sometimes. Whole fricken stadium can see what's happening, chanting, "Eddie! Eddie! Eddie!" Lacy and Starks are gnashing the crap out of SF. They get a first and goal and neither one touches the ball. Ridiculous. Sometimes there is just no reason to over think things. The FG is worth just as much if the defense stops you from doing what's been working.
Defense didn't come up big at the end, but they did enough. Offense and play calling was not good.
I've been saying it for a very long time and people continue to say I don't know what I'm talking about. McCarthy is not a good football coach. He gets away with it because he has the best quarterback in the NFL, but throughout his entire head coaching career he consistently fails to put points on the board, or allows opponents to put points on the board, due to incredibly stupid decisions (timeouts inside 2 minutes with the other team having the ball and 2nd and medium situations and they go to score, challenging plays that clearly won't get overturned and vice versa, horrible play calls in key situations, accepting penalties where the best result possible already occurred for the Pack, etc. etc.). I mean, the reason Eddie Lacy had ankle injury issues for the last few games of the season was because McCarthy ran 2 plays with 12 seconds left in a first half from our own 20 yard line and Matt Flynn under center. First play is an incomplete pass then he runs with Lacy who sprains his ankle. What good could come of that situation? Take a knee and go to the locker room. Those kinds of decisions simply should not happen, and it's damn near 1 every game with McCarthy.
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Not capers fault. You have to make an interception when it hits you in the hands. That was the game right there. Bush rushes inside breaking contain outside also killed them. They were down to no outside linebackers and playing without their best corner and pass rusher. How is that capers fault.
I agree. Hyde could've/should've intercepted that pass. Jarrett Bush allows Kaep to break contain when it is pretty clear his only job was to not break contain. And sometimes an Andy Mulumba ain't a Cadillac. Those are mistakes and personnel problems, not breakdowns in scheme.
Clock mismanagement at the end of the first half was incredibly frustrating.
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I've been saying it for a very long time and people continue to say I don't know what I'm talking about. McCarthy is not a good football coach. He gets away with it because he has the best quarterback in the NFL, but throughout his entire head coaching career he consistently fails to put points on the board, or allows opponents to put points on the board, due to incredibly stupid decisions (timeouts inside 2 minutes with the other team having the ball and 2nd and medium situations and they go to score, challenging plays that clearly won't get overturned and vice versa, horrible play calls in key situations, accepting penalties where the best result possible already occurred for the Pack, etc. etc.). I mean, the reason Eddie Lacy had ankle injury issues for the last few games of the season was because McCarthy ran 2 plays with 12 seconds left in a first half from our own 20 yard line and Matt Flynn under center. First play is an incomplete pass then he runs with Lacy who sprains his ankle. What good could come of that situation? Take a knee and go to the locker room. Those kinds of decisions simply should not happen, and it's damn near 1 every game with McCarthy.
You'd rather have who instead of TT and MM? Saying MM is only as good as Rodgers should also be the case for our WR corps, right? Armchair quarterbacks are the worst. I'm quite proud of the way the team bounced back from adversity to take what was given or there for the taking. We could have won, but we probably should have been blown out. Not anything to do with coaching. SF is just better, healthier and more complete. I'll stick with MM.
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You'd rather have who instead of TT and MM? Saying MM is only as good as Rodgers should also be the case for our WR corps, right? Armchair quarterbacks are the worst. I'm quite proud of the way the team bounced back from adversity to take what was given or there for the taking. We could have won, but we probably should have been blown out. Not anything to do with coaching. SF is just better, healthier and more complete. I'll stick with MM.
OK. If you're alright with a coach who game in and game out costs the Packers 3-7 points every game so be it. At this level that is entirely unacceptable. I could find plenty of coaches who could avoid that issue while still telling Aaron Rodgers "go call the game for me and make me look like a genius."
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Is it true that Slocum is related to a board member (through marriage, I believe)?
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Also, how many seasons are we going to waste away with the offensive talent we have? You have Rodgers and the receivers that are on the Packers and you get hot for 1 post season and that's it? 2010 was awesome. Besides that? 1 and done to the Cardinals. 1 and done at home to the Giants. Beat a Vikings team that wasn't Playoff caliber and then get smoked by the 9ers. 1 and done at home to the 9ers. Other than 1 season, you can't get past the Divisional Round with some combination of Rodgers, Nelson, Jones, Cobb, Finley, Boykins, and Jennings? Come on!
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Not capers fault. You have to make an interception when it hits you in the hands. That was the game right there. Bush rushes inside breaking contain outside also killed them. They were down to no outside linebackers and playing without their best corner and pass rusher. How is that capers fault.
How many times do they have to break contain before it is on the coaches? It has been a constant all year, by Matthews. Perry, Neal, and Mulumba - game after game after game after game. That is 100% on the coaches and the scheme. When erik Walden was playing OLB, again it was constant lack of contain. There are only 3 options - either ALL of the players are too stupid to carry out their assignments, or the scheme is wrong, or the coaching is terrible.
For 3 years now, they have been doing it game after game. When Hyde drops an easy int. which would have been a pick 6, that is a player making an error. When players are out of position game after game, it is on the coaches. When you put Hawk one-on-one in the red zone on Vernon Davis, that is not a bad play by Hawk - it is a gimme TD and a brutally terrible call by Capers.
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Considering all the guys who were hurt, I thought the Packers' D held it together remarkably well. Hyde makes that pick and the Packers are celebrating.
As a Panthers fan, I recognize that Kaepernick is talented but I also am encouraged that he throws 3-4 stupid passes every game. And I'm sure my lads will get more pressure on him than the Packers did, so maybe they can force him into 5 or 6 stupid passes. The Panthers got after him big time in winning in SF two months ago.
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How many times do they have to break contain before it is on the coaches? It has been a constant all year, by Matthews. Perry, Neal, and Mulumba - game after game after game after game. That is 100% on the coaches and the scheme.
Absolutely right. And that's why bringing 7 on that play was an unnecessary gamble.
And to the point about wasting their talent... they'll have over 25 years of elite, HOF level quarterback play by the time Rodgers is done. And they'll have 2 titles to show for it. Pathetic.
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Kluwe was cheering 4 the Packers.
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Those 4 points left on the field at end of the first half cost the Pack in the end.
exactly correct. Where was Lacy on that drive?
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They need to start taking the FA a lot more seriously. I think TT's draft talents are wearing off. There is a gaping hole at safety that cannot be solved by drafting an unproven rookie.
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They need to start taking the FA a lot more seriously. I think TT's draft talents are wearing off. There is a gaping hole at safety that cannot be solved by drafting an unproven rookie.
Well, if there's a position that you can plug a college kid into right away, it is safety.
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Well, if there's a position that you can plug a college kid into right away, it is safety.
Chris conte, major wright and Craig steltz would like to have a word with you.
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How many times do they have to break contain before it is on the coaches? It has been a constant all year, by Matthews. Perry, Neal, and Mulumba - game after game after game after game. That is 100% on the coaches and the scheme. When erik Walden was playing OLB, again it was constant lack of contain. There are only 3 options - either ALL of the players are too stupid to carry out their assignments, or the scheme is wrong, or the coaching is terrible.
For 3 years now, they have been doing it game after game. When Hyde drops an easy int. which would have been a pick 6, that is a player making an error. When players are out of position game after game, it is on the coaches. When you put Hawk one-on-one in the red zone on Vernon Davis, that is not a bad play by Hawk - it is a gimme TD and a brutally terrible call by Capers.
Jarret Bush jumped inside instead of taking the outside route. Are you sure Capers told him to do that? This isn’t Madden 25, Capers doesn’t control these guys with a joy stick. Again look who we are talking about, Jarret Bush. That defense was decimated by injury in that game and all year.
Let’s review, best cornerback, Shields out, best defensive playmaker, Matthews out, two outside linebackers injured and out and/or ineffective, It’ tough to overcome that, and with all that they still held them to 23 points, that’s good enough to win.
As far as Hawk covering Davis, The middle linebacker covers the tight end over the middle, it’s been going on all year. Go back and look, Hawk had very good coverage on that play. The problem wasn’t Hawk, it was Morgan Burnett reacting too slow and missing the interception, went right through his hands.
I don’t disagree with you that Capers should be gone, just to bring in another voice that the players may respond to, but you can’t put that loss on Capers.
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Chris conte, major wright and Craig steltz would like to have a word with you.
Conte and Wright were 3rd rounders. Steltz was a 4th.
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix will be starting on whatever team he is drafted to.
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Watching last night's game, I was amazed at how well Green Bay's defense was playing with all of the injuries. The slow start by the offense and the line allowing AR to get beat up early were far more of a problem than the defense.
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Conte and Wright were 3rd rounders. Steltz was a 4th.
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix will be starting on whatever team he is drafted to.
cHICAGO.
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cHICAGO.
If he's available.
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Jarret Bush jumped inside instead of taking the outside route. Are you sure Capers told him to do that? This isn’t Madden 25, Capers doesn’t control these guys with a joy stick. Again look who we are talking about, Jarret Bush. That defense was decimated by injury in that game and all year.
Let’s review, best cornerback, Shields out, best defensive playmaker, Matthews out, two outside linebackers injured and out and/or ineffective, It’ tough to overcome that, and with all that they still held them to 23 points, that’s good enough to win.
As far as Hawk covering Davis, The middle linebacker covers the tight end over the middle, it’s been going on all year. Go back and look, Hawk had very good coverage on that play. The problem wasn’t Hawk, it was Morgan Burnett reacting too slow and missing the interception, went right through his hands.
I don’t disagree with you that Capers should be gone, just to bring in another voice that the players may respond to, but you can’t put that loss on Capers.
Yep. Maybe Burnett should have been shading toward the all-world TE being covered by a MLB instead of shading toward Boldin, who was at least being covered by a competent CB. Having Hawk cover Davis isn't a terrible call, so long as he has safety help, which he was supposed to have. That is another play where a player was too late, or too slow to be where he was supposed to be. Blame Capers all you want, but the personnel just isn't very good.
Credit where it is due, it was also a well designed play against man coverage that was designed to make Burnett make that choice.
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If he's available.
All a guy can do is hope.
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Conte and Wright were 3rd rounders. Steltz was a 4th.
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix will be starting on whatever team he is drafted to.
True. But technically you didn't say a first round college kid can be plugged in.
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True. But technically you didn't say a first round college kid can be plugged in.
Or second round.
I think whoever you get in the 1st or 2nd better be playing. They should be talented enough. After that you're developing.
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Also, how many seasons are we going to waste away with the offensive talent we have? You have Rodgers and the receivers that are on the Packers and you get hot for 1 post season and that's it? 2010 was awesome. Besides that? 1 and done to the Cardinals. 1 and done at home to the Giants. Beat a Vikings team that wasn't Playoff caliber and then get smoked by the 9ers. 1 and done at home to the 9ers. Other than 1 season, you can't get past the Divisional Round with some combination of Rodgers, Nelson, Jones, Cobb, Finley, Boykins, and Jennings? Come on!
Not calling you out specifically, but it's quite possible that the Packers' offensive talent just isn't quite as talented as many fans believe it to be. Fans typically overrate their own team's abilities. Admittedly, I probably do the same when I say that with just an average D, the Bears would be SB contenders.
Recently, the Packers have been built more like a dome/warm weather team given their reliance on the pass and their timing offense. That doesn't always bold well for deep playoff runs (ask Peyton Manning). In fact, look at Rodgers' postseason splits playing indoors vs outdoors...
Indoors: 3 games, 364 yd/gm, 71% comp, 10 TD, 1 INT, 125.1 rating (2-1)
Outdoors: 6 games, 233 yd/gm, 63.2% comp, 9 TD, 4 INT, 90.3 rating (3-3)
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I'll ask again, does anyone know why Lacy was not on the field on outlast scoring drive? 7 instead of 3 would have been the ballgame.
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I'll ask again, does anyone know why Lacy was not on the field on outlast scoring drive? 7 instead of 3 would have been the ballgame.
I've heard no explanation. That handoff to Cobb was absolutely ridiculous. Seems as though McCarthy outsmarted himself. Just makes no sense that Lacy or Starks don't get the ball at least twice there.
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I thought the Pack defense battled yesterday. The third and 8 play at the end was a killer, as was Hyde not being able to come up with that pick (although I thought the ball was sailing a bit and was a tough catch). With no Matthews, losing Shields and Neal, I thought they hung in there and kept battling.
McCarthy is frustrating, I underestimated his decision making.
Looking ahead, I think they let Jones walk. I forgot how old he is, and I think Thompson lets him walk. Gut feeling, he winds up a Lion.
I know Finley and Quarles are free agents, and I know the Pack need safety help, but another player I love is Eric Ebron. I think he's going to be a stud, and even with defensive needs, I think he'd be a great fit for the Pack.
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I thought the Pack defense battled yesterday. The third and 8 play at the end was a killer, as was Hyde not being able to come up with that pick (although I thought the ball was sailing a bit and was a tough catch). With no Matthews, losing Shields and Neal, I thought they hung in there and kept battling.
McCarthy is frustrating, I underestimated his decision making.
Looking ahead, I think they let Jones walk. I forgot how old he is, and I think Thompson lets him walk. Gut feeling, he winds up a Lion.
I know Finley and Quarles are free agents, and I know the Pack need safety help, but another player I love is Eric Ebron. I think he's going to be a stud, and even with defensive needs, I think he'd be a great fit for the Pack.
GB battled and got the help of some terrible no-calls but, in the end, the better team won. As a Bears fan, I can honestly say that I don't think the Bears would have played SF that closely.
I could see Jones ending up in SF. I believe he's from that area, the 49ers lack depth at WR and both Boldin and Manningham are FAs.
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We had to switch our D to the 3-4 because the 4-3 wasn't working....how many coordinators does it take to figure out it is not scheme but lack of player development, i.e. strength training.
Stopping the run has been lacking in GB for a long time, that is hand to hand combat, stalemate or beat your man using leverage and strength. You can't scheme your way to stopping the run, that is unless you want to severely expose your secondary.
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I've heard no explanation. That handoff to Cobb was absolutely ridiculous. Seems as though McCarthy outsmarted himself. Just makes no sense that Lacy or Starks don't get the ball at least twice there.
I was saying that in the stands at the time. 1st and goal and Packers go 5 wide then motion Cobb into the back field. I thought it telegraphed Cobb run. Then 2nd down it's 5 wide. 3rd down its 32(3 wr 2 TE), I think. Not one of those plays had a legitimate running threat presented. The Cobb run is great outside of the red zone because it introduces all sorts of possibilities but in the red zone where it's packed in the defense doesn't have to think as much. Lazy and Starks were getting a lot of traction late in the game and to not have them in even as a threat to run is down right criminal.
Oh by the way this was all with Marshall Freakin Newhouse in the game....how is Rodgers going to have any time to throw. Newhouse is so bad, the play to get them 1st and goal that last drive, Newhouse missed blocking the DE but Rodgers saw it and stepped up in the pocket. That same DE went 2 yrds past Rodgers with Newhouse in between and he beat Newhouse AGAIN to almost sack Rodgers. How do you get smoked twice on the same play and the only reason your QB doesn't get killed is he has some sort of primitive ESP
Defense did what it needed to do (Capers still needs to go) but there is no way that's on the defense. This season has really made me question McCarthy's capability as a coach.
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I was saying that in the stands at the time. 1st and goal and Packers go 5 wide then motion Cobb into the back field. I thought it telegraphed Cobb run. Then 2nd down it's 5 wide. 3rd down its 32(3 wr 2 TE), I think. Not one of those plays had a legitimate running threat presented. The Cobb run is great outside of the red zone because it introduces all sorts of possibilities but in the red zone where it's packed in the defense doesn't have to think as much. Lazy and Starks were getting a lot of traction late in the game and to not have them in even as a threat to run is down right criminal.
100% on the money. Not to mention, IIRC, the Cobb run was to Newhouse's side.
Now, I may be as stubborn as McCarthy the other way, but I would have gone to Lacy and/or Starks 3 times, and would have at least thought about a 4th, before kicking the FG. Put Kuhn in there and let everyone know what's coming. With that place going crazy, the O-line, FB and TEs jacked up to get it done...at least go down swinging with what's been working. Even if they only get 4-5 yards or so on the first two. 3rd and 4 gives you a whole lot more to work with than 3rd and 8 does.
The Hyde non-interception was at least a tough play. MM's play calling should not have been difficult and his screw up was way worse.
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I continue to get more and more pissed off about this. On their last two drives, Lacy and Starks combined for 11 carries for 61 yards (5.5 ypc). SF had nothing for them, and MM in his infinite wisdom decides its time to sread the field and hand the ball off to Randall Cobb.
Feed the frickin Beast!
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I continue to get more and more pissed off about this. On their last two drives, Lacy and Starks combined for 11 carries for 61 yards (5.5 ypc). SF had nothing for them, and MM in his infinite wisdom decides its time to sread the field and hand the ball off to Randall Cobb.
Feed the frickin Beast!
The clock mismanagement at the end of the first half is what continues to make my blood boil. Packers get the ball with all three TO and 2:48 on the clock. Because they have to burn a timeout so the play clock doesn't run out, they end up running out of time and having to kick a field goal, when they should have had at least a shot into the end zone. Aspiring head football coaches, watch last nights' game as an example of how not to manage your timeouts (both teams gave a clinic).
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They need to start taking the FA a lot more seriously. I think TT's draft talents are wearing off. There is a gaping hole at safety that cannot be solved by drafting an unproven rookie.
Well Thompson would have to change his entire strategy. He signs lots of FAs - they are just all his own guys whose contracts have expired.
So does he look to sign Neal, Raji, Shields, Finley, Jones, Dietrich-Smith, Kuhn, etc - or let them go and sign outside guys at top dollar?
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Time management all around this weekend was a mess. In a playoff game, timeouts are sacred, especially in the second half. That TO the Chiefs wasted right after the two minute warning was a joke. I think the Niners burnt one on the first play of the second half too.
I know they may have lost anyway, and they were missing Charles, but once the Chiefs got up in the second half, they didn't run it nearly enough. If you think about it, if you milk the play clock, and run the ball on one series, you knock off about 2 mins and 15 seconds that series of downs. Pick up a single first down, and it's almost 5 mins of game clock that you can kill. Look at the Chiefs second half play log, and I'd be ticked if I was a Chiefs fan.
It'll never ever happen, way too radical, but as an experiment, I'd put a head coach in a suite for a game. Give him three 70'' screens in the suite, and with a head seat, allow him to call plays/personnel packages/challenges/timeouts. The year I worked for the Bears, I was lucky enough to be on the sidelines for games. As one can imagine, it's total chaos down there. It's not an excuse for poor time management, bad challenges, etc, but if you have a billion dollar business operation, wouldn't you want someone in better control of decision making at the most crucial point?
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Time management all around this weekend was a mess. In a playoff game, timeouts are sacred, especially in the second half. That TO the Chiefs wasted right after the two minute warning was a joke. I think the Niners burnt one on the first play of the second half too.
I know they may have lost anyway, and they were missing Charles, but once the Chiefs got up in the second half, they didn't run it nearly enough. If you think about it, if you milk the play clock, and run the ball on one series, you knock off about 2 mins and 15 seconds that series of downs. Pick up a single first down, and it's almost 5 mins of game clock that you can kill. Look at the Chiefs second half play log, and I'd be ticked if I was a Chiefs fan.
Exact same reason GB was in playoffs in 1st place. With big Lead, Dallas refused to run ball in 2nd half.
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Time management all around this weekend was a mess. In a playoff game, timeouts are sacred, especially in the second half. That TO the Chiefs wasted right after the two minute warning was a joke. I think the Niners burnt one on the first play of the second half too.
I know they may have lost anyway, and they were missing Charles, but once the Chiefs got up in the second half, they didn't run it nearly enough. If you think about it, if you milk the play clock, and run the ball on one series, you knock off about 2 mins and 15 seconds that series of downs. Pick up a single first down, and it's almost 5 mins of game clock that you can kill. Look at the Chiefs second half play log, and I'd be ticked if I was a Chiefs fan.
It'll never ever happen, way too radical, but as an experiment, I'd put a head coach in a suite for a game. Give him three 70'' screens in the suite, and with a head seat, allow him to call plays/personnel packages/challenges/timeouts. The year I worked for the Bears, I was lucky enough to be on the sidelines for games. As one can imagine, it's total chaos down there. It's not an excuse for poor time management, bad challenges, etc, but if you have a billion dollar business operation, wouldn't you want someone in better control of decision making at the most crucial point?
This is where I'm on board with Bill Simmons even though I think he's actually being a little tongue in cheek. He advocates for putting a kid that plays 40 hours of Madden a week on staff to be the time management czar.
Seriously though, I get how the sideline is chaos so why wouldn't you want someone that is assigned to be cool, calm and collected around time, down and distance, time outs and challenges. This person advises the coach, and you take away "time out privileges" from the QB and only make them from the sideline
Take the drive to end the first half. Rodgers took a time out to save a delay of game, the TO was worth far more than the delay of game would have cost. TO should have been controlled by the czar
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Jarret Bush jumped inside instead of taking the outside route. Are you sure Capers told him to do that? This isn’t Madden 25, Capers doesn’t control these guys with a joy stick. Again look who we are talking about, Jarret Bush. That defense was decimated by injury in that game and all year.
Let’s review, best cornerback, Shields out, best defensive playmaker, Matthews out, two outside linebackers injured and out and/or ineffective, It’ tough to overcome that, and with all that they still held them to 23 points, that’s good enough to win.
As far as Hawk covering Davis, The middle linebacker covers the tight end over the middle, it’s been going on all year. Go back and look, Hawk had very good coverage on that play. The problem wasn’t Hawk, it was Morgan Burnett reacting too slow and missing the interception, went right through his hands.
I don’t disagree with you that Capers should be gone, just to bring in another voice that the players may respond to, but you can’t put that loss on Capers.
What about the dozens of other times it happened this year. As a matter of fact, they never made it through a single game without breaking contain on the outside. And that is not to mention special teams where breaking contain was a staple of their coverage.
Of course it is the player making the mistake, but when it is player after player, game after game - it is ALL about the coaching.
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Stopping the run has been lacking in GB for a long time, that is hand to hand combat, stalemate or beat your man using leverage and strength. You can't scheme your way to stopping the run, that is unless you want to severely expose your secondary.
The Packers only had one good year stopping the run in the Capers...and it was the year they won the Super Bowl.
So what was it about that year that was different from now? Was it personnel? (Cullen Jenkins, Nick Collins, younger Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett) Was it scheme? Was it coincidence?
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Jarret Bush jumped inside instead of taking the outside route. Are you sure Capers told him to do that?
If you look at that play again, Kaepernick looked like he was about to pass the ball and Bush reacted to it to try to get in his way.
Yeah it didn't turn out well. And maybe he was told not to do that.
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The Packers only had one good year stopping the run in the Capers...and it was the year they won the Super Bowl.
So what was it about that year that was different from now? Was it personnel? (Cullen Jenkins, Nick Collins, younger Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett) Was it scheme? Was it coincidence?
They gave up 4.7 ypc that year. That is atrocious. No matter personnel they have been getting pushed around by offensive lines. For a decade they've been hovering around 4-5 ypc. That's partly why I feel S&C comes into play.
SF is cut and big, not a plethora of fat guys and a 220 lb MLB.
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I think Payton Manning wants to retire in Omaha.
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They gave up 4.7 ypc that year. That is atrocious. No matter personnel they have been getting pushed around by offensive lines. For a decade they've been hovering around 4-5 ypc. That's partly why I feel S&C comes into play.
SF is cut and big, not a plethora of fat guys and a 220 lb MLB.
just like Seattle, I'm sure the PEDs help...
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Don't know if y'all heard: Seahawks are limiting sales of their tickets to certain states and excluding CA.
http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Seahawks-won-t-sell-tickets-to-California-5136665.php
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Don't know if y'all heard: Seahawks are limiting sales of their tickets to certain states and excluding CA.
http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Seahawks-won-t-sell-tickets-to-California-5136665.php
Media blowing this out of proportion. This is actually standard operating ticketing procedure for playoffs for lot of teams and sometimes concerts and benefit shows. Ultimate goal is to ensure fans (not brokers) get the seats, thus they limit to states nearest to the city. If it also keeps some SF fans out, the team doesnt mind.
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Don't know if y'all heard: Seahawks are limiting sales of their tickets to certain states and excluding CA.
http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Seahawks-won-t-sell-tickets-to-California-5136665.php
It's an Act of Mercy, 77. An Act of Mercy. Imagine the public humiliation that awaits Niner fans at the Hawk's Nest. I 5 South projects as the New Trail of Tears. Better to absorb the loss in the privacy of one's own hovel. An Act of Mercy. God bless Paul Allen.
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Sure do wonder how the Packers would have done if former Packer employee and current Seahawk GM was running the football operation in Green Bay.
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WTH is going on in Mnpls. Jaybee? The ex-mayor trying to force a referendum on the public financing?
Could the Vikings be the first team to break ground on a new stqdium that never gets built? Stay tuned As the World Turns...
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They gave up 4.7 ypc that year. That is atrocious. No matter personnel they have been getting pushed around by offensive lines. For a decade they've been hovering around 4-5 ypc. That's partly why I feel S&C comes into play.
SF is cut and big, not a plethora of fat guys and a 220 lb MLB.
The NFL scrap heap is littered with ripped, workout warriors that can’ play a lick of football.
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Jim Caldwell new Lions coach.
Pretty much opposite personality as Schwartz. Not sure how the guy can coach without Peyton as QB though.
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Welcome to the coaching graveyard, the abyss, the hellhole from which there is no escape and no redemption, Mr. Caldwell.
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Jim Caldwell new Lions coach.
Pretty much opposite personality as Schwartz. Not sure how the guy can coach without Peyton as QB though.
Not sure he could coach with Peyton as his QB.
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Jim Caldwell new Lions coach.
Pretty much opposite personality as Schwartz. Not sure how the guy can coach without Peyton as QB though.
This hire and the Wisenhunt hire are both terrible.
Caldwell is an awful ingame coach.
Generally speaking, I hate retreads as coaches who were recently fired.
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The NFL scrap heap is littered with ripped, workout warriors that can’ play a lick of football.
Remember Alonzo Spellman? Looked like Tarzan, played like Jane.
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This hire and the Wisenhunt hire are both terrible.
Caldwell is an awful ingame coach.
Generally speaking, I hate retreads as coaches who were recently fired.
Why was the Whisenhunt hire terrible? He's a good offensive guy who can win with a decent QB.
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Why was the Whisenhunt hire terrible? He's a good offensive guy who can win with a decent QB.
His job is to develop QB's. After he left Pittsburgh, the QB circus in AZ was a trainwreck. He won with Warner as his QB, but failed to develop LI have a toothachert, Kolb, Skelton, it was a mess. He cycled through RB's all the time as well. For him to go to the Titans makes no sense on so many levels. Their run game is a mess, Locker has some skill and a decent arm, but is not accuarate. Odd fit, doesn't make sense to me at all. I thought Zimmer would have been an ideal fit there.
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His job is to develop QB's. After he left Pittsburgh, the QB circus in AZ was a trainwreck. He won with Warner as his QB, but failed to develop LI have a toothachert, Kolb, Skelton, it was a mess. He cycled through RB's all the time as well. For him to go to the Titans makes no sense on so many levels. Their run game is a mess, Locker has some skill and a decent arm, but is not accuarate. Odd fit, doesn't make sense to me at all. I thought Zimmer would have been an ideal fit there.
Fair enough. Although, LI have a toothachert, Kolb and Skelton were never any good to begin with. Can't put that all on Whisenhunt. He's the classic case of "good coach with bad players" or "ordinary coach who can't develop players?"
Zimmer definitely deserves a shot somewhere. Minnesota perhaps?
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Fair enough. Although, LI have a toothachert, Kolb and Skelton were never any good to begin with. Can't put that all on Whisenhunt. He's the classic case of "good coach with bad players" or "ordinary coach who can't develop players?"
Zimmer definitely deserves a shot somewhere. Minnesota perhaps?
To me, Wisenhunt is a better coordinator than head coach. Hell, might say the same about Trestman, we'll see on both.
Zimmer should get a shot, guy's paid his dues and can coach.
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To me, Wisenhunt is a better coordinator than head coach. Hell, might say the same about Trestman, we'll see on both.
Zimmer should get a shot, guy's paid his dues and can coach.
As a Bengals fan, I hope he stays and replaces Lewis after his contract is up next year. Agreed he definitely deserves a shot as a head coach, though.
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Other than Mariucci (and Jauron for 20 minutes to replace the fired Mooch), the coaching hires for the Lions over the last 30 years do not have NFL head-coaching experience. That has worked well for them. ::)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Detroit_Lions_head_coaches
Caldwell is the anti-Schwarz. Head coaching experience, offensive background, calm. I'm not saying he is going to be good. I believe that by definition anyone who coaches the Lions is going to be lousy. But understand that the thinking in Detroit is that to get to the next level, Stafford's improvement is vital. That is why they were focused first on Whisenhunt and then Caldwell. Someone who has been actively involved with good quarterbacks.
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I realize it'd be a huge gamble, but if I were the Lions (not anymore) or Vikings, I'd very quietly interview Mark Helfrich, at least at a minimum see how he interviews and kick the tires on him.
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The problem with Helfrich is that he has only been a head coach for one year. I think you have to see how things go for a couple of years.
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The problem with Helfrich is that he has only been a head coach for one year. I think you have to see how things go for a couple of years.
100% hear you and agree. My thinking though is if the NFL is a copycat league (which it is), and if Kelly continues to have success, Helfrich seems like a fit at some point. He was Kelly's coordinator for 4 years and has a decent QB background as well.
If you're a team looking to get outside of the retreads and maybe some one with background in a forward thinking offense, I'd at least interview him, knowing experience as a head coach is not on his side. If things worked out, you'd be buying low on him now too. Agree there are certainly concenrs with experience, but it costs nothing to interview him.
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Lions have tried the hot OC flavor of the month, Morningweg. When that didn't work, they went after his mentor, Mooch.
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... That is why they were focused first on Whisenhunt and then Caldwell. Someone who has been actively involved with good quarterbacks.
Flacco and the Baltimore offense seemed to regress this year. Flacco through his lowest number of TDs since his rookie year and almost double the number of INTs.
Granted, Rice sucked and they let Boldin walk.
And Vikes hire Zimmer.
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Flacco and the Baltimore offense seemed to regress this year. Flacco through his lowest number of TDs since his rookie year and almost double the number of INTs.
Granted, Rice sucked and they let Boldin walk.
And Vikes hire Zimmer.
Peyton and Dungy both called the Detroit GM's saying Caldwell was vital to Peyton's success. I'm not sure I agree with their assessment, but Caldwell has been OC for both Baltimore and Indy when they won their Super Bowl's. Part of his record was the 2-14 intentional tank year when Peyton was hurt.
http://www.woodtv.com/sports/nfl/mannings-call-played-part-in-lions-hiring-coach
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This game has been beyond boring.
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Any Bronze Beast sightin' in Seattle? Check Harbaugh's heine for a sniffer.
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This game has been beyond boring.
Especially when the only thing you can think to say is "Omaha". What's with that?
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Especially when the only thing you can think to say is "Omaha". What's with that?
Audible pre snap calls.
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Harbaugh's gettin' hosed on these non-groundin' calls, but it's all good 'cuz I can't stand that motherf ucker. ;D
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Audible pre snap calls.
Audible my ass he says it every play right before the snap, he is changing the play way before then
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Major boner by Carroll not to have kicked the FG.
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Audible my ass he says it every play right before the snap, he is changing the play way before then
Maybe he's got a Suzy Cream cheese in Nebraska, aina?
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Kaepernick has a lotta Favre in him with about the same amount of intelligence.
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Kaepernick has a lotta Favre in him with about the same amount of intelligence.
Well, he was born in Milwaukee. Maybe it's a Wisconsin thing that impacts the brain.
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Musta been in Cudahy or the South Side, hey?
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Harbaugh's gettin' hosed on these non-groundin' calls, but it's all good 'cuz I can't stand that motherf ucker. ;D
Watched the first half in a bar before the crowd noise got to me. Your feelings for Harbaugh are shared by most of Seattle. He's a Michigan guy so I give him a pass. In fact, I like Harbaugh better than Pete Carroll in many ways.
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Sherman=worlds biggest dumb a$$. Makes Randy Moss look smart.
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Sherman=worlds biggest dumb a$$. Makes Randy Moss look smart.
You can't coach class.
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Sherman interview was great. Harbaugh interview was fantastic.
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You can't coach class.
Seahawks have a long, proud tradition of knuckleheads to wear the uniform. Sherman got the torch from Jeremy Stevens who got it from The Boz who got it from...
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Sherman=worlds biggest dumb a$$. Makes Randy Moss look smart.
Sherman's a joke. He plays a "heel" character like he's a pro wrestler. Everything he does is an act.
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Watched the first half in a bar before the crowd noise got to me. Your feelings for Harbaugh are shared by most of Seattle. He's a Michigan guy so I give him a pass. In fact, I like Harbaugh better than Pete Carroll in many ways.
+1
Can't stand Carroll....cheater to the hilt.
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+1
Can't stand Carroll....cheater to the hilt.
Yea. Say what you want about the Harbaughs but I would not question their integrity. But Pete Carroll?? He didn't leave USC because he wanted to live in Seattle. The hound dogs were closing in...
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Audible my ass he says it every play right before the snap, he is changing the play way before then
Right. It is any number of things.
"This time Omaha means, switch to play X"
"This time Omaha means nothing"
"This time Omaha means switch snap count to 4"
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Sherman interview was great. Harbaugh interview was fantastic.
Would like to see the Harbaugh interview. Was in a gym all day. Did see the Sherman interview. What a moron. Listening to the differences between the interviews from the Patriots/Broncos game and the Seahawks/49ers game, it's comical. Night and day. And it comes from the top down. The culture of the organizations.
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Would like to see the Harbaugh interview. Was in a gym all day. Did see the Sherman interview. What a moron. Listening to the differences between the interviews from the Patriots/Broncos game and the Seahawks/49ers game, it's comical. Night and day. And it comes from the top down. The culture of the organizations.
I agree about Sherman. I find it interesting though that so many national sports personalities are defending him.
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Would like to see the Harbaugh interview. Was in a gym all day. Did see the Sherman interview. What a moron. Listening to the differences between the interviews from the Patriots/Broncos game and the Seahawks/49ers game, it's comical. Night and day. And it comes from the top down. The culture of the organizations.
Here's the interview
http://www.youtube.com/v/Y1iLwjXTA0I
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Yea. Say what you want about the Harbaughs but I would not question their integrity. But Pete Carroll?? He didn't leave USC because he wanted to live in Seattle. The hound dogs were closing in...
100% agree. I know the Harbaughs take a ton of grief here, but I would give up my left nut right now to have him coach my team. In a second. Carroll, no thanks.
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Carroll's dirty.
I hope their OC and DC leave as well as key players.
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Carroll's dirty.
I hope their OC and DC leave as well as key players.
By the way, how did your Niners do today?
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I would give up my left nut right now to have him coach my team.
IU??
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IU??
LOL. No, I have a Harbaugh-in-Law coaching them...but if he wants to coach IU football, I'd love it.
UCLA almost got Harbaugh before Stanford did, timing just wasn't right with the whole Dorrell situation.
If he coached the Cowboys I would be elated, but not sure who in their right mind would coach for Jerry Jones.
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LOL. No, I have a Harbaugh-in-Law coaching them...but if he wants to coach IU football, I'd love it.
UCLA almost got Harbaugh before Stanford did, timing just wasn't right with the whole Dorrell situation.
If he coached the Cowboys I would be elated, but not sure who in their right mind would coach for Jerry Jones.
A lot of us from Ann Arbor thought he was locked up to coach Blue. I like Hoke but Harbaugh would have been the get.
Harbaugh working for Jerry Jones would last a couple games. He stood up to Ditka. Routinely. No way Jim Harbaugh eats Jerry Jones' sh1t. Jones needs to look at his track record as a GM and figure out what's best for his franchise. Unfortunately, for the Cowboys, I do not think his ego will not allow that.
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Here's the interview
http://www.youtube.com/v/Y1iLwjXTA0I
I think Jim was referring to the @CoachTomCrean twiter handle.
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I agree about Sherman. I find it interesting though that so many national sports personalities are defending him.
I'll absolutely defend Sherman. First of all, the man graduated from Standford with a 4.0 in communications, was a salutatorian at his high school and has his own guest column in a major publication. He is normally very well spoken and consummate professional. He was interviewed after a very competitive and feisty game. I don't have any issue with what he said, and would love for a Packer player to be that fired up and able to back it up with his play. He was interviewed a number of times afterward and was just fine.
A very interesting study, especially with twitter, on how we judge a book based on 12 seconds of video.
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I'll absolutely defend Sherman. First of all, the man graduated from Standford with a 4.0 in communications, was a salutatorian at his high school and has his own guest column in a major publication. He is normally very well spoken and consummate professional. He was interviewed after a very competitive and feisty game. I don't have any issue with what he said, and would love for a Packer player to be that fired up and able to back it up with his play. He was interviewed a number of times afterward and was just fine.
A very interesting study, especially with twitter, on how we judge a book based on 12 seconds of video.
Sherman is no doubt a very intelligent man. He grew up in Compton and does a lot of work for and with the kids in his old neighborhood. He's not a bad guy by any means.
The way that he acts on the field is all for show. He's made himself into a wrestling heel and that's what motivates him and, more importantly for him, gets him attention.
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not sure if this is real, but...
JakeSnakeDDT@JakeSnakeDDT14h
I can help Sherman with his heel promos....
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Twitta Tracka
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Apparently, Max Scherzer tweeted last night that he won't shake off Alex Avila next season. He'll just yell 'Omaha'.
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I'll absolutely defend Sherman. First of all, the man graduated from Standford with a 4.0 in communications, was a salutatorian at his high school and has his own guest column in a major publication. He is normally very well spoken and consummate professional. He was interviewed after a very competitive and feisty game. I don't have any issue with what he said, and would love for a Packer player to be that fired up and able to back it up with his play. He was interviewed a number of times afterward and was just fine.
A very interesting study, especially with twitter, on how we judge a book based on 12 seconds of video.
Guess we just disagree. I've got no problems with him calling himself the greatest. It's when you start disparaging your competition, calling Crabtree a "sorry receiver." Just doesn't impress me to be a jackass after winning.
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By the way, how did your Niners do today?
Choked at the end.
Kaep has some mental baggage after two straight seasons of blowing passes to Crabtree.
Just have to remind myself that this is his FIRST full NFL season.
Problem is: this team is built for now.
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I'll absolutely defend Sherman. First of all, the man graduated from Standford with a 4.0 in communications, was a salutatorian at his high school and has his own guest column in a major publication. He is normally very well spoken and consummate professional. He was interviewed after a very competitive and feisty game. I don't have any issue with what he said, and would love for a Packer player to be that fired up and able to back it up with his play. He was interviewed a number of times afterward and was just fine.
A very interesting study, especially with twitter, on how we judge a book based on 12 seconds of video.
Navy
I would not say Richard Sherman is unintelligent. And I have no issue with his schtick as displayed last night. He is a very bright, clever, and calculating person.
But there is more to him as a member of this community that is not attractive. When I am in a restaurant I don't need some guy screaming at the maître d' that he and his party of 10 want to be seated immediately at tables along the windows already occupied by diners. I don't need some guy and his crew of 12 interrupting a performance at Jazz Alley because the guy considers himself a larger personality than the renowned jazz artist trying to play on stage.
Sherman's performance last night was nothing compared to the aggressive, petulant, and entitled behavior seen here in Seattle. Last night was brand building which is benign compared with the raw arrogance he usually inflicts on people who don't care that he plays football for a living. Millions in your portfolio doesn't mean you necessarily possess personal dignity.
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Sherman is no doubt a very intelligent man. He grew up in Compton and does a lot of work for and with the kids in his old neighborhood. He's not a bad guy by any means.
The way that he acts on the field is all for show. He's made himself into a wrestling heel and that's what motivates him and, more importantly for him, gets him attention.
His personal deportment in daily life Seattle would say otherwise. I am glad he gives back to his community. But what might be acceptable in Compton is not acceptable in Bellevue, Medina, and Belltown. The reality is crude, vulgar, and boorish transcends zip codes.
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Navy
I would not say Richard Sherman is unintelligent. And I have no issue with his schtick as displayed last night. He is a very bright, clever, and calculating person.
But there is more to him as a member of this community that is not attractive. When I am in a restaurant I don't need some guy screaming at the maître d' that he and his party of 10 want to be seated immediately at tables along the windows already occupied by diners. I don't need some guy and his crew of 12 interrupting a performance at Jazz Alley because the guy considers himself a larger personality than the renowned jazz artist trying to play on stage.
Sherman's performance last night was nothing compared to the aggressive, petulant, and entitled behavior seen here in Seattle. Last night was brand building which is benign compared with the raw arrogance he usually inflicts on people who don't care that he plays football for a living. Millions in your portfolio doesn't mean you necessarily possess personal dignity.
As usual I am unaware of the larger story. Are you indicating that he behaves in this manner through out the Seattle area? If so, that is clearly unacceptable to me and something that should be addressed. That would seem to indicate it's not really a schtick. This might be the time where I put on my sweat pants, mutter damn millinials and go yell at some kids to get off my lawn
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Might make me sound like an old guy, but would Barry Sanders or Jerry Rice, or Walter Payton or Reggie White ever act out that way ON the field.
Nothing wrong with a player thinking he is the best. But making the choke sign while on the field and screaming like a madman after the game proved nothing other than the guy is an idiot.
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That's called roid rage.
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Might make me sound like an old guy, but would Barry Sanders or Jerry Rice, or Walter Payton or Reggie White ever act out that way ON the field.
Nothing wrong with a player thinking he is the best. But making the choke sign while on the field and screaming like a madman after the game proved nothing other than the guy is an idiot.
Or slapping the opposing player on the ass, then "offering" a handshake, and acting all surprised/butt-hurt when he pushes you away?
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As usual I am unaware of the larger story. Are you indicating that he behaves in this manner through out the Seattle area? If so, that is clearly unacceptable to me and something that should be addressed. That would seem to indicate it's not really a schtick. This might be the time where I put on my sweat pants, mutter damn millinials and go yell at some kids to get off my lawn
I was at Jazz Alley when he and his crew were talking over Lee Ritenour. Rit had too much class to say anything but it took security a couple attempts to get Sherman to shut up. I think the only reason he wasn't booted immediately is because of his celebrity.
A buddy was dining at Dahlia Lounge when Sherman showed up during peak without a rez and demanded to be seated in certain occupied tables. Seahawk fans love the guy but many here know him as a boor.
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I think Jim was referring to the @CoachTomCrean twiter handle.
Pam Oliver looks like Steven Tyler!
Dude looks like a lady...but is actually a lady!
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nm
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Choked at the end.
Kaep has some mental baggage after two straight seasons of blowing passes to Crabtree.
Just have to remind myself that this is his FIRST full NFL season.
Problem is: this team is built for now.
They'll be back. Sea-SF is a great match up in both social and football terms. Looking forward to this rivalry.
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From ESPN today
Four Downs: Did Broncos win Cutler trade?
Fact or Fiction: Five years later, the Broncos are the winner of the Jay Cutler trade.
Jeff Dickerson: Fact. The Bears have been to the playoffs one time with Cutler in the past five seasons and gave up two first-round picks, a third-round choice (the Bears got Denver's fifth-round pick and selected former wide receiver Johnny Knox) and quarterback Kyle Orton to obtain him. In that same five-year span, the Broncos have gone to the playoffs three times (Tim Tebow has been to the postseason as many times as Cutler) and are poised to win their first Super Bowl championship since the late 1990s on Sunday. I won't even bore you with the details that Denver eventually parlayed some of those picks from the Bears into wide receivers Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker. You know why? Because I don't need to. Success in the NFL is measured in playoff appearances and Super Bowl championships. Cutler supporters will view this as a shot at the quarterback. It's really not. I deal in reality. When a team surrenders two first-round draft picks, a third-rounder and their starting quarterback (Orton) to acquire a supposed franchise quarterback and then reaches the postseason just one time in the five years after the deal from a team that ends up reaching the playoffs three times and playing in a Super Bowl over the exact same time period, the winner is obvious: Denver. Spin it any way you want, the Broncos crushed the Bears on that trade five years ago.
more here: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth
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Success in the NFL is measured in playoff appearances and Super Bowl championships. Cutler supporters will view this as a shot at the quarterback. It's really not. I deal in reality. When a team surrenders two first-round draft picks, a third-rounder and their starting quarterback (Orton) to acquire a supposed franchise quarterback and then reaches the postseason just one time in the five years after the deal from a team that ends up reaching the playoffs three times and playing in a Super Bowl over the exact same time period, the winner is obvious: Denver. Spin it any way you want, the Broncos crushed the Bears on that trade five years ago.
I guess I don't really get his point. He claims its not a shot at Cutler, but he clearly trolls with that Tebow statement. And then he pulls the "the only thing that matters is wins and playoff appearances.
Broncos since the trade: 46-34
Bears since the trade: 44-36
One of those playoff appearances for the Broncos featured a stellar 8-8 record while the Bears missed the playoffs last year at 10-6. And frankly, if Cutler doesn't get hurt and the Hanie/Collins combo tank that season, Tebow doesn't make the playoffs and the Bears have a better comparative record. Not to mention the Bears are competing for a division title with one of the best teams in the NFL over the last 5 years while the Broncos had the weakest division in football, until the Chiefs became decent. They also added a Hall of Famer and a top tier coach that had nothing to do with that trade.
Bottom line, its a lazy cherry picked article in my opinion.
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I think Peyton Manning might have had a little something to do with the Broncos being in the superbowl this year, he doesn't mention that.
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I think Peyton Manning might have had a little something to do with the Broncos being in the superbowl this year, he doesn't mention that.
The Broncos won the trade because it led to them drafting Tebow, dumping Tebow and signing Peyton Manning. It really didn't have much to do with Cutler himself or what Denver did with the Bears' picks. If Manning signed with KC instead of Denver, does anyone think the Broncos would be where they are now?
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Isn't it possible that both teams won? It's not a matter of whether one team has done better than the other since the trade so much as whether the trade helped each individual team. Instead of looking at Bears vs. Broncos, the trade should be judged in terms of pre-trade Bears vs. post-trade Bears and pre-trade Broncos vs. post-trade Broncos.
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Isn't it possible that both teams won? It's not a matter of whether one team has done better than the other since the trade so much as whether the trade helped each individual team. Instead of looking at Bears vs. Broncos, the trade should be judged in terms of pre-trade Bears vs. post-trade Bears and pre-trade Broncos vs. post-trade Broncos.
I agree, plus too many what-ifs that factor into where both teams are right now.
To be honest I think this article only proves that both teams won out of the deal. Brandon Marshall signing with the Bears is also a direct correlation to the Cutler trade.
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The Broncos won the trade because it led to them drafting Tebow, dumping Tebow and signing Peyton Manning. It really didn't have much to do with Cutler himself or what Denver did with the Bears' picks. If Manning signed with KC instead of Denver, does anyone think the Broncos would be where they are now?
I'll dump on Cutler at any opportunity, but your post is spot on.
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I agree, plus too many what-ifs that factor into where both teams are right now.
To be honest I think this article only proves that both teams won out of the deal. Brandon Marshall signing with the Bears is also a direct correlation to the Cutler trade.
Agreed. And as gifted and talented as Alshon Jeffery is, he really blew up under Marshall's tutelage. AJ had many rookie mistakes (offensive PI/holding) in his injury-shortened first season, and I believe Marshall sped along his education as an elite WR.