2013 NFC North/NFL Thread

[Spotcheck Billy]

or if Curt Warner was any good he wouldn't have been relegated to the Arena league after being in training camp with the Packers? 

[DegenerateDish]

If Cutler struggles in the first half, it'll be quite interesting to see what Trestman does. This Browns game will be fascinating to watch, it'll say a lot about where this is all heading.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

or if Curt Warner was any good he wouldn't have been relegated to the Arena league after being in training camp with the Packers? 

Except Warner was 27 when he signed with the Rams. Mccown is 34. Look I am extremely happy for what McCown has provided. Hes just no Jay Cutler.

[brandx]

If Cutler struggles in the first half, it'll be quite interesting to see what Trestman does. This Browns game will be fascinating to watch, it'll say a lot about where this is all heading.

Even as a Cutler hater, I think Trestman is making the right move. These next 3 games are each basically playoff games and he should get a good read on Jay's future in Chi. Long-term, the coach isn't really taking any risk by starting Cutler other than pissing off some fans if the Bears lose Sunday.

And as a Packer fan, if we win these next 2 games, I'd rather face Cutler than McCown in a couple weeks.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

And as a Packer fan, if we win these next 2 games, I'd rather face Cutler than McCown in a couple weeks.

Thats a mistake in judgement.

[wadesworld]

Thats a mistake in judgement.

You couldn't be more wrong.  Jay Cutler is 1-7 in his career starting against the Packers.  He has completed 53% of his passes, averages 6.4 yards per completion, and has 8 touchdowns to 17 interceptions against the Packers.  Like Chuck Woodson said, "It's just Jay being Jay.  Jay will throw us the ball."  With the Packers defense needing to create turnovers to be in any way, shape, or form successful, a quarterback like Jay is exactly what the Packers hope to play.  They'll give up a big play or two if it means they'll also create a couple of big plays.  Jay is awful against the Packers, and McCown is not.

[jesmu84]

You couldn't be more wrong.  Jay Cutler is 1-7 in his career starting against the Packers.  He has completed 53% of his passes, averages 6.4 yards per completion, and has 8 touchdowns to 17 interceptions against the Packers.  Like Chuck Woodson said, "It's just Jay being Jay.  Jay will throw us the ball."  With the Packers defense needing to create turnovers to be in any way, shape, or form successful, a quarterback like Jay is exactly what the Packers hope to play.  They'll give up a big play or two if it means they'll also create a couple of big plays.  Jay is awful against the Packers, and McCown is not.

Oh. I forgot everything - team makeup, coaching, schemes, etc - has been the exact same every time the Bears played the Packers while Cutler was there. It's not like this offense is better in any way to those previous iterations...

[wadesworld]

Oh. I forgot everything - team makeup, coaching, schemes, etc - has been the exact same every time the Bears played the Packers while Cutler was there. It's not like this offense is better in any way to those previous iterations...

The dude is 1-7 against the Packers. It's fairly plain to see.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

The dude is 1-7 against the Packers. It's fairly plain to see.

And not once has he played them with the Trestman/Kromer system. Tice/Martz/Turner werent exactly good...

[wardle2wade]

Been reading the thread all season... Fun stuff.

The Packer fans hatred for Cutler has created some delusional opinions as this McCown-Cutler situation has progressed.  Cutler is a much better qb than he is getting credit for.  Imo, this is his first season where the Bears have rhythm on offense and also continuity/protection with the o-line.

Packers fans have been spoiled with great healthy qb's like Favre and Rodgers, and have absolutely no clue how hard it is to find a solid qb in the NFL.  They've hit two homeruns, but that is the rarity in the NFL, not the rule... there are too many unknowns and variables with draft picks to know a sure thing.  The Favre-Arod experience makes Packer fans opinions on this matter completely irrelevant.  It makes their conclusions on Cutler look comical.

Whether it's the right move to sign Cutler will all be played out in terms of how much value they can get.  It's far from a no-brainer and these last few weeks should give the Bears a lot more clarity on Jay's future. 

[MerrittsMustache]

You couldn't be more wrong.  Jay Cutler is 1-7 in his career starting against the Packers.  He has completed 53% of his passes, averages 6.4 yards per completion, and has 8 touchdowns to 17 interceptions against the Packers.  Like Chuck Woodson said, "It's just Jay being Jay.  Jay will throw us the ball."  With the Packers defense needing to create turnovers to be in any way, shape, or form successful, a quarterback like Jay is exactly what the Packers hope to play.  They'll give up a big play or two if it means they'll also create a couple of big plays.  Jay is awful against the Packers, and McCown is not.

First of all, Cutler averages 11 yards per completion against GB and has 9 TD, 16 INTs and a completion percentage of 55.3%. Not impressive numbers by any means, but better than what you wrote. Might want to check your sources  

Prior to this season, McCown was winless against GB with twice as many INTs as TDs, and a QB Rating of 63.3 (basically the same as Cutler's rating vs GB). How in the world did he ever win a game in Green Bay considering he had bad career numbers against that team? That's impossible!

By the way, Josh McCown has a career QB Rating of 41.8 against Cleveland, compared to Cutler's 90.7. That's probably why Trestman is going with Cutler this week  

[NavinRJohnson]

What I find funny is that the discussion relative to bringing Cutler back has turned into a Culter vs. McCown discussion for so many. It isn't about that. This year doesn't matter, and the Bears (I wold hope), know that. sure maybe they can still win the division and make the playoffs, only to get their brains beat in when they get there. Is McCown a long-term fit at QB? Not a chance. Is Cultler? That's the question that is so difficult to answer, based on him, the money, timing, rest of the team needs, etc. that's also why they want him out there as much as possible now. mcCown has no part of the Bears future. cutler might, but they need to see him play to figure it out.

[4th and State]

McCown is 34.  That should end the discussion on who the long-term option should be going forward.  If anything, McCown is a closer comparison to the great Matt Cassel. A guy who has been the beneficiary of good system with solid weapons surrounding him.

[mu-rara]

Packer fan here. 

Not sure what reason Packer fans have to hate Jay Cutler.  He is the gift that keeps on giving.

Bears need to figure out what they have.  Play Cutler.  If he plays well in Trestman's system, and they can keep him for what they determine is a fair value, keep him.  But maybe a system quarterback is what they need.

The Bears are old, and need serious retooling.  Even if they make the playoffs this year, they are in for a few craptacular years.  Need to factor that in when determining what to do.  If they can speed up the rebuilding process by trading Cutler for decent draft picks, do it.

[MerrittsMustache]

Packer fan here. 

Not sure what reason Packer fans have to hate Jay Cutler.  He is the gift that keeps on giving.

Bears need to figure out what they have.  Play Cutler.  If he plays well in Trestman's system, and they can keep him for what they determine is a fair value, keep him.  But maybe a system quarterback is what they need.

The Bears are old, and need serious retooling.  Even if they make the playoffs this year, they are in for a few craptacular years.  Need to factor that in when determining what to do.  If they can speed up the rebuilding process by trading Cutler for decent draft picks, do it.

Fans often misuse the term "system QB." I assume people think of Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer or some other "game manager" type of QB but, technically speaking, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are system QBs. So are Drew Brees and Colin Kaepernick and Aaron Rodgers. Honestly, just about every successful QB is a "system QB" because they run an offense that plays to their strengths.  Trestman has a system that's very QB-friendly so I assume you mean that the offense doesn't need a "star" QB to be successful.

The Bears' defense is old and needs retooling. The offense is championship caliber. Marshall and Jeffery are the best WR combo in the league. Forte is a top 5 RB and Bennett is in the top tier of TEs. The o-line is much improved but could probably use an upgrade at RT and Garza is serviceable but on his last legs at C. Offensively, the team is just about there. Defensively, the team has no pass rush, the loss of Melton, Briggs and Williams killed them against the run and the safeties are brutal. If they could upgrade to even a middle-of-the-pack D, the Bears would be legit SB contenders.

[Spotcheck Billy]

so what is the consensus among the Bears fans here?

reading these posts it looks like Cutler is hands down better than McCown but on the other hand Cutler's next 3 games are a testdrive to the Bears front office to see if he really is thee guy 

so Cutler is the man this year but Bears fans are uncomfortable about him as the long term solution?

[🏀]

so what is the consensus among the Bears fans here?

reading these posts it looks like Cutler is hands down better than McCown but on the other hand Cutler's next 3 games are a testdrive to the Bears front office to see if he really is thee guy 

so Cutler is the man this year but Bears fans are uncomfortable about him as the long term solution?

When you're investing 25-30% of your cap space to one player, there's reason to be uncomfortable about him regardless of his name. As a Packers fan, Cutler is incredibly more talented than McCown, you're a meathead if you think otherwise.

[wardle2wade]

so Cutler is the man this year but Bears fans are uncomfortable about him as the long term solution?

All has to do with payroll.  If Bears D wasn't so banged up and crappy in certain spots, I think the Bears office wouldnt hesitate to sign/franchise him. 

You are spot on with the rest of it though.

[Hards Alumni]

I get it.  Cutler is talented.  He is also 31 years old, playing behind a questionable line, and undoubtedly expensive.  The Bears would crazy to resign him.  While I understand QBs are not easy to find, what is the point in wasting a ton of cap space on a QB if the rest of the team is questionable?  Its like the Titans throwing a whole pile of money at Chris Johnson.  He had already peaked, and they should have cut bait or traded him while he was valuable.  I understand that QBs are more valuable than RBs, but if I was the GM of the Bears, I'd be making inquiries about the availability of RG3... He might be available for a song pretty soon... assuming the Shannahans are still going to be employed in Washington.

[MerrittsMustache]

I get it.  Cutler is talented.  He is also 31 years old, playing behind a questionable line, and undoubtedly expensive.  The Bears would crazy to resign him.  While I understand QBs are not easy to find, what is the point in wasting a ton of cap space on a QB if the rest of the team is questionable?  Its like the Titans throwing a whole pile of money at Chris Johnson.  He had already peaked, and they should have cut bait or traded him while he was valuable.  I understand that QBs are more valuable than RBs, but if I was the GM of the Bears, I'd be making inquiries about the availability of RG3... He might be available for a song pretty soon... assuming the Shannahans are still going to be employed in Washington.

As I pointed out in a previous post, the rest of the team is NOT questionable.

RG3 isn't going anywhere. If anything, Kirk Cousins may be available after the season.

[brandx]

The Packer fans hatred for Cutler has created some delusional opinions as this McCown-Cutler situation has progressed.  Cutler is a much better qb than he is getting credit for.  Imo, this is his first season where the Bears have rhythm on offense and also continuity/protection with the o-line.
 

He's 2 playoff games in 8 years good!! Woo- hoo.

Rodgers makes the Packers good. Manning made Indy and now makes Denver good. JC could never come even close to doing the same.

[wardle2wade]

He's 2 playoff games in 8 years good!! Woo- hoo.

Rodgers makes the Packers good. Manning made Indy and now makes Denver good. JC could never come even close to doing the same.

It's all relative, and playoff success is dependent on many factors.  As I said above, having a different OC every year and little pass protection didn't help his case.  He's finished 4 seasons with the Bears.

Also, it appears you are giving all credit to Manning and Rodgers for their teams success... not Reggie Wayne, Indy's defense, or Dungy's coaching?  No credit to the Packers depth in 2010 or their o-line?

Lastly, so Cutler needs to be in the top elite tier of Manning and Rodgers in order to be considered good and resignable?

Packers fans can be insufferable.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

One last thing sometimes numbers lie. There are so many times where McCown has thrown to the the ball right to the defense and they just dropped the ball. I can think of 3 times that happened against the Cowboys while Cutler a bunch of his interceptions hit his receivers right in the chest and they took a funny bounce into the defenders hands. McCown had a wonderful run for the Bears but theres no way he keeps up that production.

[Hards Alumni]

It's all relative, and playoff success is dependent on many factors.  As I said above, having a different OC every year and little pass protection didn't help his case.  He's finished 4 seasons with the Bears.

Also, it appears you are giving all credit to Manning and Rodgers for their teams success... not Reggie Wayne, Indy's defense, or Dungy's coaching?  No credit to the Packers depth in 2010 or their o-line?

Lastly, so Cutler needs to be in the top elite tier of Manning and Rodgers in order to be considered good and resignable?

Packers fans can be insufferable.

Bears fans create terrible arguments.  Do you know what a strawman argument is?  Clearly you don't.

[wardle2wade]

One last thing sometimes numbers lie. There are so many times where McCown has thrown to the the ball right to the defense and they just dropped the ball. I can think of 3 times that happened against the Cowboys while Cutler a bunch of his interceptions hit his receivers right in the chest and they took a funny bounce into the defenders hands. McCown had a wonderful run for the Bears but theres no way he keeps up that production.

As much as I loved the undersized (now-broken) Johnny Knox, he'd play volleyball and tip it to the defense... Hester's poor route-running alone cost a handful of picks.  Can't remember the exact stat, but between the two of them the Bears had the most unforced INT's in the NFL for a couple seasons.  It's pretty crazy to think how much it's changed now by having both Marshall and the maturing Alshon.