2013 NFC North/NFL Thread

[martyconlonontherun]

That was a pretty weak comeback. The Packers not selling out a home playoff game...come on, please justify that for me, I'm begging.

It is more the Packers fault then the fans. They changed their ticket policy and said they wouldn't return the ticket price if the Packers didn't host and it would be applied to next year's tickets. This was sent out after the Packers got killed by the lions on Thanksgiving. You also had to prepurchase to round 2. So if you were paying for $340 per seat playoff tickets, you basically handed over the Packers $1,500 to sit on til next June. Most fans couldn't rationalize setting aside that much money on the slim chances the Pack made the playoffs, especially with the holiday season.

Add on a lot of fans spent money for last Sunday's playoff type game and that we've been dumped on in bad weather, it's a lot harder to find fans this late to scoop up that many tickets. If the Pack would've kept their original policy, more fans would've bought right away.

[hairy worthen]

I respect you Hairy, I trolled once for trolling's sake. I've said a few times on here I have the utmost respect for the Packers, their loyal fanbase, and their organization. It's not a coincidence the Pack is very good year in and year out, they are extremely well run and have the best player in the game. To not give them kudos for their success would be silly.

It is out of character for you to troll, thats why I called you out. Your insight is appreciated here by me at least.

Not selling out is a huge wake up call for both the packers and nfl.  Stupid blunder on Packers part in November, what it did was put the ticket sales in range of a forecast that is not favorable. The packers do have a loyal and large fan base, but much of it is out of state, not practical to come to a game last minute. They still have to deal with a small market in terms of last minute ticket sales.  I think there is a bigger issue with fan complacency lately for the Packers. Someone in their 20's has never known a losing packer team.

[DegenerateDish]

It is out of character for you to troll, thats why I called you out. Your insight is appreciated here by me at least.

Not selling out is a huge wake up call for both the packers and nfl.  Stupid blunder on Packers part in November, what it did was put the ticket sales in range of a forecast that is not favorable. The packers do have a loyal and large fan base, but much of it is out of state, not practical to come to a game last minute. They still have to deal with a small market in terms of last minute ticket sales.  I think there is a bigger issue with fan complacency lately for the Packers. Someone in their 20's has never known a losing packer team.

You're more right than anything. I suppose I'm more mad about being back at work after 10 days off than anything and letting it get the better of me.

[brandx]

It's all about the money.  The 7 years means nothing.  It only matters how the contract is structured.  NFL players are dumped before their contracts expire all the time.

You're right, which is why it makes sense for the Bears. Without injuries, Rodgers will get the full reported amount. I doubt that cutler will.

But that's football - What really matters is the bonus up front

[spartan3186]

I would have said the draft. Its served the Packers well over the past 5 years.

I don't think the Bears need an Aaron Rodgers. I wasn't making that comparison. If they had a Tony Romo or an Alex Smith, someone down a tier from the Rodgers and Peyton Mannings, but up a level from the Cutlers, I think they would be contenders. 

Really? Alex Smith and Tony Romo are a tier up from Cutler? Give me a break. Obviously not the same level as Rodgers and Manning, but to say he's a level below Alex Smith and Tony Romo is ludicrous.

There's basically 3 tiers as far as I'm concerned

1) Elite -- Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Brees
2) Quality NFL Starters -- Cutler, Romo, Luck, Stafford, Kapernick, Wilson, Rivers, Rothlisberger, Dalton, Flacco, Ryan, Eli, Alex Smith, Foles, Tannehill (?), RGIII, Newton, Palmer
3) Better Suited as a Backup -- Geno Smith, Terrell Pryor, Fitzpatrick, Glennon, Thad Lewis, Jason Campbell, Chad Henne

I'm sure I'm missing some people, but those are basically the tiers. The top guys are studs, the next tier are guys that can stick in the league as starters, but don't set the world on fire. And the last tier will never stick as an NFL starter.

Some of the young guys in the 2nd tier (Luck, Newton, Wilson, Kapernick) don't have a long enough track record to be in the elite class, but can certainly work themselves there.

[MerrittsMustache]

Really? Alex Smith and Tony Romo are a tier up from Cutler? Give me a break. Obviously not the same level as Rodgers and Manning, but to say he's a level below Alex Smith and Tony Romo is ludicrous.

There's basically 3 tiers as far as I'm concerned

1) Elite -- Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Brees
2) Quality NFL Starters -- Cutler, Romo, Luck, Stafford, Kapernick, Wilson, Rivers, Rothlisberger, Dalton, Flacco, Ryan, Eli, Alex Smith, Foles, Tannehill (?), RGIII, Newton, Palmer
3) Better Suited as a Backup -- Geno Smith, Terrell Pryor, Fitzpatrick, Glennon, Thad Lewis, Jason Campbell, Chad Henne

I'm sure I'm missing some people, but those are basically the tiers. The top guys are studs, the next tier are guys that can stick in the league as starters, but don't set the world on fire. And the last tier will never stick as an NFL starter.

Some of the young guys in the 2nd tier (Luck, Newton, Wilson, Kapernick) don't have a long enough track record to be in the elite class, but can certainly work themselves there.

Rodgers, Peyton, Brees: 4 conf titles, 3 SB titles

Flacco, Ben, Eli: 6 conf titles, 5 SB titles

You don't need an "elite-level" QB to win a championship.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

He's 18 million reasons to resign Cutler:


2008 Kyle Orton (15) / Rex Grossman (1)
2007 Rex Grossman (7) / Brian Griese (6) / Kyle Orton (3)
2006 Rex Grossman (16)
2005 Kyle Orton (15) / Rex Grossman (1)
2004 Craig Krenzel (5) / Chad Hutchinson (5)/ Jonathan Quinn (3) / Rex Grossman (3)
2003 Kordell Stewart (7) / Chris Chandler (6)/ Rex Grossman (3)
2002 Jim Miller (8) / Chris Chandler (7) / Henry Burris (1)
2001 Jim Miller (13) / Shane Matthews (3)
2000 Cade McNown (9) / Shane Matthews (5) / Jim Miller (2)
1999 Shane Matthews (7) / Cade McNown (6) / Jim Miller (3)
1998 Erik Kramer (8) / Steve Stenstrom (7) / Moses Moreno (1)
1997 Erik Kramer (13) / Rick Mirer (3)
1996 Dave Krieg (12) / Erik Kramer (4)
1995 Erik Kramer (16)
1994 Steve Walsh (11) / Erik Kramer (5)
1993 Jim Harbaugh (15) / Peter Tom Willis (1)
1992 Jim Harbaugh (13) / Peter Tom Willis (2) / Will Furrer (1)

[MarsupialMadness]

He's 18 million reasons to resign Cutler:


2008 Kyle Orton (15) / Rex Grossman (1)
2007 Rex Grossman (7) / Brian Griese (6) / Kyle Orton (3)
2006 Rex Grossman (16)
2005 Kyle Orton (15) / Rex Grossman (1)
2004 Craig Krenzel (5) / Chad Hutchinson (5)/ Jonathan Quinn (3) / Rex Grossman (3)
2003 Kordell Stewart (7) / Chris Chandler (6)/ Rex Grossman (3)
2002 Jim Miller (8) / Chris Chandler (7) / Henry Burris (1)
2001 Jim Miller (13) / Shane Matthews (3)
2000 Cade McNown (9) / Shane Matthews (5) / Jim Miller (2)
1999 Shane Matthews (7) / Cade McNown (6) / Jim Miller (3)
1998 Erik Kramer (8) / Steve Stenstrom (7) / Moses Moreno (1)
1997 Erik Kramer (13) / Rick Mirer (3)
1996 Dave Krieg (12) / Erik Kramer (4)
1995 Erik Kramer (16)
1994 Steve Walsh (11) / Erik Kramer (5)
1993 Jim Harbaugh (15) / Peter Tom Willis (1)
1992 Jim Harbaugh (13) / Peter Tom Willis (2) / Will Furrer (1)

Dark times for the Chicago Bears.... really 2004?  Ok with Craig Krenzel as starting QB going into the season! 

[tower912]

From a Lion's perspective, it is money the Bear's won't be able to spend elsewhere.  So, if this is what the management team of the Bear's wants, more power to them 

[MerrittsMustache]

Dark times for the Chicago Bears.... really 2004?  Ok with Craig Krenzel as starting QB going into the season! 

2004 was the year Grossman tore his ACL early on and they first turned to the immortal Jonathan Quinn at QB, who may have literally been the worst QB in NFL history.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think a team can win with Jay, but I think they overpaid, and they might find themselves hancuffed with his contract.

They are going to depend upon cheap drafted players similar to the Packers.

[Coleman]

Really? Alex Smith and Tony Romo are a tier up from Cutler? Give me a break. Obviously not the same level as Rodgers and Manning, but to say he's a level below Alex Smith and Tony Romo is ludicrous.

There's basically 3 tiers as far as I'm concerned

1) Elite -- Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Brees
2) Quality NFL Starters -- Cutler, Romo, Luck, Stafford, Kapernick, Wilson, Rivers, Rothlisberger, Dalton, Flacco, Ryan, Eli, Alex Smith, Foles, Tannehill (?), RGIII, Newton, Palmer
3) Better Suited as a Backup -- Geno Smith, Terrell Pryor, Fitzpatrick, Glennon, Thad Lewis, Jason Campbell, Chad Henne

I'm sure I'm missing some people, but those are basically the tiers. The top guys are studs, the next tier are guys that can stick in the league as starters, but don't set the world on fire. And the last tier will never stick as an NFL starter.

Some of the young guys in the 2nd tier (Luck, Newton, Wilson, Kapernick) don't have a long enough track record to be in the elite class, but can certainly work themselves there.

I think there are 4 tiers. Break up your 2nd tier into two groups. Cutler is in the lower tier (3rd out of 4)


Basically I'd divide it up this way...

1) Future HOFs - Brees, Rodgers, Peyton Manning,
2) Consistent Pro Bowlers/Super Bowl Winners - Rothlisberger, Eli Manning, Flacco, Romo, Rivers (maybe eventually Kapernick, RGIII, Wilson, Newton, or Luck but not yet)
3) Proven Starters - Cutler, Dalton, Palmer, Stafford, Bradford, Alex Smith
4) Unproven Starters/Probable Backups - the rest of the mess

Granted, the top two tiers are relatively small, probably only 7 or 8 guys total. But I think Cutler falls into the 3rd group. I probably misspoke by including Alex Smith in the 2nd group. But Tony Romo is in there.

If Cutler makes more than one Pro Bowl or wins a SB ring I'd move him up.

[DegenerateDish]

The Cutler deal is essentially 3 years, $54 million.

The guaranteed money is huge, I had heard $50 million, but the $54 million is gigantic. That part scares me.

[MU B2002]

2004 was the year Grossman tore his ACL early on and they first turned to the immortal Jonathan Quinn at QB, who may have literally been the worst QB in NFL history.

Henry Burris would like a word with you...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/2856/henry-burris

[LAZER]

The Cutler deal is essentially 3 years, $54 million.

The guaranteed money is huge, I had heard $50 million, but the $54 million is gigantic. That part scares me.

Is he for sure getting 18 a year for the first 3 or are you just speculating?

[MarsupialMadness]

Is he for sure getting 18 a year for the first 3 or are you just speculating?

That's what is being reported.

7years/$126 mil
$54 mil guaranteed

[brandx]

The Cutler deal is essentially 3 years, $54 million.

The guaranteed money is huge, I had heard $50 million, but the $54 million is gigantic. That part scares me.

As long as the guaranteed money is only in the 1st 3 years, I think it's a good deal for the Bears.

The big difference in the NFC North is that Stafford and Cutler don't value the ball and Rodgers does (Sunday was unusual because he was rusty after missing 2 months). Just wait for the mistakes.

[DegenerateDish]

Is he for sure getting 18 a year for the first 3 or are you just speculating?

That's what is out there now. The language of it all is what will be telling. Is he getting salary/bonus all guaranteed in those first 3 years? The bonus will be guaranteed, but did they front load it so heavily with all guaranteed money for three years, and then be able to walk away after year 3 with no dead money?

[Spotcheck Billy]

It is more the Packers fault then the fans. They changed their ticket policy and said they wouldn't return the ticket price if the Packers didn't host and it would be applied to next year's tickets.

word is this is now the league-wide NFL policy

at lunch they said down to 3000 left - heard that Cinci and Indy are also in trouble of a blackout

[mu03eng]

Let me say this, it's a big issue for the NFL and Packers if the most loyal fan base in the NFL can not sell out a playoff game. I'm not trolling, not being a jerk when I say this. To a degree I understand the short term selling tickets issue, the weather, the late Sunday start time, I get that. But, this is also the most die hard of die hard fan bases. Coming off one of the most exciting clinching games I can recall, one would think there'd be momentum there to get tickets sold.

The NFL's goal is to basically double their current revenue by 2020. The Packers not selling out a playoff game raises a lot of red flags. The NFL wants to go hard into market based ticketing. In the next few years, your NFL ticket will not list a price point on it. The advancement of the TV product is both a curse and blessing. The in game experience, quite frankly, is not great, and the league knows this. Moving back into Los Angeles, or Europe, means butts need to be in seats in those markets for them to be successful. At the league meetings this spring, there will be a vote to expand the playoffs and create another Thursday night package. If the Pack can't sell out, there's going to be a lot of people in New York having to answer for a lot of these issues.

I see the potential for a perfect storm for the NFL in the next couple of years.  I'm going to the game Sunday but only after my dad called and offered to buy tickets for he, my brother and I to go to the game.  Weather is definitely a factor, so is the short turn around and the fact that a lot of people had given up on this team a month ago.

I think the biggest factor is the in-game experience is crap.  I don't understand why teams(not just an NFL issue) don't invest in high speed cell network's and/or high volume wi-fi.  Getting the internet at a game is damn near impossible most days and like it or not things like twitter and highlights from other games or fantasy football(during the regular season) are things that are integral to me watching a game these days.  It's somewhat better now that they have the new video board and show highlights, but you can miss a lot being at a game that you would catch being at home.  Also, the pricing is pretty insane, especially for Packer fans.  Not only is there the game ticket, but travel costs, meals, parking(if your a sucker and use the lots) and any incidentals at the game.  Plus the time involved to travel to and from.

You combine all that with some of the changes in the game, reffing atrocities, PR stupidity, and any potential impact of the concussion thing and the NFL could have some real issues.  I don't think anything catastrophic, but I do think a pretty big sea change is coming.

One other thing, another Thursday night package????  I'm about as big a football fan as you'll find and I don't think I watched more than 2 hours of Thursday night football collectively this season.  Part of it was terrible match-ups, part was it's bad football(turn around is too quick), and part is I can't commit 4 nights to football(Saturday(college), Sunday, and Monday are must haves).

I think Bill Simmons has it right, the league should go to an 18 week schedule(still 16 games per team) and have two bye weeks per team.  Fewer games on each week but how many games can you really watch?  Eliminate Thursday games but you can extend the season and revenue an extra week will improving the product by allowing teams to be fresher and keep star players on the field more.  Additionally, they moves the last two weeks of the season out of competition with college football so you can play a couple of Saturday games on the final two weeks when the games count the most.  That pushes the SuperBowl back but who cares, nothing interesting from a sports perspective is happening in mid-February that would conflict with a SuperBowl Sunday.

[jesmu84]

http://www.barstoolsports.com/m/chicago/super-page/why-cant-the-packers-sell-out-their-playoff-game-i-thought-they-had-the-greatest-fans-on-planet-earth/

[GGGG]

word is this is now the league-wide NFL policy

at lunch they said down to 3000 left - heard that Cinci and Indy are also in trouble of a blackout

Interestingly that means that they have now sold more tickets than Lambeau's capacity prior to this year.

So that means they have sold more tickets to this game than any playoff game ever???

[MerrittsMustache]

I think Bill Simmons has it right, the league should go to an 18 week schedule(still 16 games per team) and have two bye weeks per team.  Fewer games on each week but how many games can you really watch?  Eliminate Thursday games but you can extend the season and revenue an extra week will improving the product by allowing teams to be fresher and keep star players on the field more.  Additionally, they moves the last two weeks of the season out of competition with college football so you can play a couple of Saturday games on the final two weeks when the games count the most.  That pushes the SuperBowl back but who cares, nothing interesting from a sports perspective is happening in mid-February that would conflict with a SuperBowl Sunday.

I'm not a big fan of the Thursday games, but with two byes, teams could potentially only play on Thursday nights following a bye week. Players would LOVE to have 10 days off, a game and then 9 days off. Definitely something the league would spin into a "player wellness" move.

Also, the Super Bowl doesn't need to be moved back if they eliminate the pointless bye week after the conf championships.

[Coleman]

Interestingly that means that they have now sold more tickets than Lambeau's capacity prior to this year.

So that means they have sold more tickets to this game than any playoff game ever???

Correct. Capacity was expanded by 7,500 seats this year.

I looked at going. The prices are a little high, about $111 a ticket for the cheapest, but the late game time is the biggest obstacle for me, with a 4+ hour drive.

FWIW, Lambeau is 3rd biggest stadium in the NFL in terms of capacity. Not making excuses, I still fully expect it to sell out, as I've been saying all along

[DegenerateDish]

I think MU03eng said it perfectly there, agree 100%.

I'll be interested to see what Levi's Stadium is like, because that's really the first stadium built in this new era.

Wifi, checking twitter, fantasy updates on your phone, trying to text someone at an NFL game, all next to impossible. Paying $5 for an awful hot dog. Standing in line to go to the bathroom and missing half a quarter. Freezing your tail off if you live in a city like Green Bay/Chicago. Even stupid stuff like entertainment in game. The Bears drumline? Ugh. The downtime in between plays and the timeouts in the stadium lead to a ton of time to feed the fan at the game with info, which is struggling to happen.

Agree, something is going to have to give soon.