2013 NFC North/NFL Thread

[MerrittsMustache]

I've been in the "Bears should franchise Cutler" camp to this point, but seeing it put the way you did makes me realize what an unbelievably difficult decision it actually is.  Though not particularly deep at this point, the offense is pretty solid, but the question becomes can they put the defense back together in time to take advantage of it? Will Cutler hold up long enough to make franchising him worthwhile? Hes not old, but he's obviously not getting any younger. The QB class appears deep, but that's one less draft pick you can use on defense. Very tough call.

Therein lies the problem. Emery would have liked to draft a QB in the last couple of years, but there were just too many holes to fill that the team couldn't afford to use even a 5-7 Round pick on a guy who was going to be inactive and running the scout team every week. That said, they only have 3 of their 6 picks from 2012 Draft still on the roster. Selecting Kirk Cousins or Nick Foles in Round 3 (instead of DB Brandon Hardin who never played a regular season game with the Bears) wouldn't look too bad in 20/20 hindsight.

[JWags85]

And there aren't a ton of high caliber starting QBs floating around.  So as stated, this won't be a high pick, so do you risk dropping Cutler to end up with a less than top 3-5 QB in the class and McCown/Josh Freeman/Mark Sanchez/insert other reject QB.  McCown has been great but there is a reason he was out of football and not a starting NFL QB.

At least I can be glad that the McCown over Cutler chatter is comparing healthy vs a reaggrevated groin and ankle, cause they were totally apples to apples.

Also, gotta love Marshall saying what everyone knows and was thinking about the Lions being dirty.  My biggest fear was not that Cutler was ready to play, it was that he wasn't 100% healed and Fairley and Suh would be doing everything they could to take shots at him.  Like deciding to rise as he was stepping over them and making sure to fall right on top of him.  That team is so completely unlikeable on the defensive side of the ball.

[GGGG]

The Bears have to franchise Cutler.  There is absolutely no way they can let him go, and McCown is clearly just a stop gap.  Most back ups turn into Matt Flynn after more exposure...not Kurt Warner.

[hairy worthen]

And there aren't a ton of high caliber starting QBs floating around.  So as stated, this won't be a high pick, so do you risk dropping Cutler to end up with a less than top 3-5 QB in the class and McCown/Josh Freeman/Mark Sanchez/insert other reject QB.  McCown has been great but there is a reason he was out of football and not a starting NFL QB.

At least I can be glad that the McCown over Cutler chatter is comparing healthy vs a reaggrevated groin and ankle, cause they were totally apples to apples.

Also, gotta love Marshall saying what everyone knows and was thinking about the Lions being dirty.  My biggest fear was not that Cutler was ready to play, it was that he wasn't 100% healed and Fairley and Suh would be doing everything they could to take shots at him.  Like deciding to rise as he was stepping over them and making sure to fall right on top of him.  That team is so completely unlikeable on the defensive side of the ball.

Lions a dirty team?  The hell you say.

Look no further than the head coach

[brandx]

The Bears have to franchise Cutler.  There is absolutely no way they can let him go, and McCown is clearly just a stop gap.  Most back ups turn into Matt Flynn after more exposure...not Kurt Warner.

I can't see it even though what you say in the last sentence is right. Cutler is going to want $15-$20 million and you cripple your teams future when you pay that for an average QB.

[GGGG]

I can't see it even though what you say in the last sentence is right. Cutler is going to want $15-$20 million and you cripple your teams future when you pay that for an average QB.

You don't have to give him the long term contract.  Just franchise him and work something out.

[MerrittsMustache]

I can't see it even though what you say in the last sentence is right. Cutler is going to want $15-$20 million and you cripple your teams future when you pay that for an average QB.

Whether you think Cutler is average, above average or below average, he's still better than anyone else who will be out there, which means it would be hard to let him walk. On top of that, he seems to be Trestman's guy.

If the team decides to go in a different direction, they can franchise him and then work out a trade with someone who will give him a long-term deal and send picks the Bears' way. Highly unlikely that he's not back though.

[mugrad2006]

Whether you think Cutler is average, above average or below average, he's still better than anyone else who will be out there, which means it would be hard to let him walk. On top of that, he seems to be Trestman's guy.

If the team decides to go in a different direction, they can franchise him and then work out a trade with someone who will give him a long-term deal and send picks the Bears' way. Highly unlikely that he's not back though.

Agreed on this.  This is a league that's seen guys like Blaine Gabbert, Geno Smith/Mark Sanchez, Terrell Pryor, Christian Ponder etc. as a team's go to starting QB to start the season.  Cutler is head and shoulders above any of those options.  He not only gives you a chance to not lose, he's a guy that can actually make the throws to win a game.

[GGGG]

Agreed on this.  This is a league that's seen guys like Blaine Gabbert, Geno Smith/Mark Sanchez, Terrell Pryor, Christian Ponder etc. as a team's go to starting QB to start the season.  Cutler is head and shoulders above any of those options.  He not only gives you a chance to not lose, he's a guy that can actually make the throws to win a game.

And that's why quarterbacks are overpaid.  Not only are they obviously very important, its because the alternative to not having even a decent one is very bleak.  I would say that outside of a franchise NBA player, there is no more an important individual position in professional sports that determines the success of a team.  And considering a franchise basketball player is only one of five players on the floor, and a quarterback is 1 of 11, that should tell you something.

Then you have to consider the absolute luck in getting one...or the work that you have to do to train even a decent one.  The Packers hit the lottery twice...so have the Colts.  Some franchises wander in the wilderness for years...the post Marino Dolphins, the Browns...and the Bears are the poster child.  They have to hold onto Cutler because the alternatives at this point are frightening. 

[tower912]

Yes, pressuring the quarterback is a new concept, unique to the Lions, and they should be ashamed, ashamed I say, to have attempted to lay their filthy hands on an already injured, immobile quarterback.         Detroit's D-line is under a microscope.   Every play that could have been called a penalty on them was called.    I, too, am glad to hear Marshall's comments.   It tells the Lions everything they need to know about him. 

[wadesworld]

Yes, pressuring the quarterback is a new concept, unique to the Lions, and they should be ashamed, ashamed I say, to have attempted to lay their filthy hands on an already injured, immobile quarterback.         Detroit's D-line is under a microscope.   Every play that could have been called a penalty on them was called.    I, too, am glad to hear Marshall's comments.   It tells the Lions everything they need to know about him. 

Marshall's always complaining about the teams that are beating up on the Bears. He even had a cute press conference with a dead mini Christmas tree on the table to talk about beating the Packers last year. Nothing to see there.

[Dish]

This upcoming Bears offseason is going to be fascinating. They have 27 players signed for 2014, that's it. That number includes Peppers, who will be released post June 1st, so the Bears can push the $8 mil dead money over 2 seasons. That'll save them the a $14 mil cap hit. Probably cutting Bush too, saving them $1.8 mil.

That means they'd have 25 players signed. I believe they have all 7 picks next year (I'm getting old, sick all week). That would give them 32 players...which means they have to sign 60 plus players...just to go to training camp.

By virtue, you have to franchise Cutler. Navin made a solid few points that I didn't think of (props to him), because it is complicated by the above. On one hand, you don't have the time to develop another guy based on where the offense is now. On the opposite hand, you don't have the resources, because you have so many positions to fill on your roster. You need a franchise QB, but is Cutler (at his age now) going to be worth that commitment? For the next year, I just don't think they have another route. But that's compounded because I don't know how they can take a QB high next year in the draft, when all (correct) logic suggests they should. Their safety play and d-line play is atrocious. Heck, they're entire D at every spot needs major, major help.

[Lennys Tap]

Yes, pressuring the quarterback is a new concept, unique to the Lions, and they should be ashamed, ashamed I say, to have attempted to lay their filthy hands on an already injured, immobile quarterback.         Detroit's D-line is under a microscope.   Every play that could have been called a penalty on them was called.    I, too, am glad to hear Marshall's comments.   It tells the Lions everything they need to know about him. 

I wouldn't say the Lions are necessarily dirty. More like undisciplined and/or stupid. They may or may not be under a microscope, but it's because of past bad behavior, not conspiracy. Their reputation, like most reputations, is well earned.

[MerrittsMustache]

Yes, pressuring the quarterback is a new concept, unique to the Lions, and they should be ashamed, ashamed I say, to have attempted to lay their filthy hands on an already injured, immobile quarterback.         Detroit's D-line is under a microscope.   Every play that could have been called a penalty on them was called.    I, too, am glad to hear Marshall's comments.   It tells the Lions everything they need to know about him. 

Fairley had a pretty cheap takedown of Cutler in a mass of bodies long after the ball left his hand that was a clear PF but wasn't called. Kyle Long definitely thought so.




As Lenny said, the Lions aren't necessarily dirty. They're just stupid and undisciplined, from the coaching staff on down. I just hope the Bears benefit from the Lions' inevitable collapse and not that Packers.

[MU B2002]

I didn't get to watch the game... can someone tell me what happened right before half.  Bears had the ball inside the lions ten, and then espn gamecast went crazy and locked up for 5 minutes.

[brandx]

Whether you think Cutler is average, above average or below average, he's still better than anyone else who will be out there, which means it would be hard to let him walk. On top of that, he seems to be Trestman's guy.

If the team decides to go in a different direction, they can franchise him and then work out a trade with someone who will give him a long-term deal and send picks the Bears' way. Highly unlikely that he's not back though.

I think that is exactly what I wrote - you can franchise him for 2 years I believe - gives you time to find a replacement and you're only giving big money for those 2 years rather than  adding a long-term deal.

[tower912]

I agree with undisciplined.   BTW, Matty Flynn back to the Packers?

[GGGG]

This upcoming Bears offseason is going to be fascinating. They have 27 players signed for 2014, that's it. That number includes Peppers, who will be released post June 1st, so the Bears can push the $8 mil dead money over 2 seasons. That'll save them the a $14 mil cap hit. Probably cutting Bush too, saving them $1.8 mil.

That means they'd have 25 players signed. I believe they have all 7 picks next year (I'm getting old, sick all week). That would give them 32 players...which means they have to sign 60 plus players...just to go to training camp.

By virtue, you have to franchise Cutler. Navin made a solid few points that I didn't think of (props to him), because it is complicated by the above. On one hand, you don't have the time to develop another guy based on where the offense is now. On the opposite hand, you don't have the resources, because you have so many positions to fill on your roster. You need a franchise QB, but is Cutler (at his age now) going to be worth that commitment? For the next year, I just don't think they have another route. But that's compounded because I don't know how they can take a QB high next year in the draft, when all (correct) logic suggests they should. Their safety play and d-line play is atrocious. Heck, they're entire D at every spot needs major, major help.

Can Peanut play safety?

[GGGG]

I agree with undisciplined.   BTW, Matty Flynn back to the Packers?

Back up.  Seneca Wallace goes on IR.  If he does OK, my guess is that Tolzien is the primary back up next year.

[Dish]

Can Peanut play safety?

Gets asked a lot, I think he could. I actually think a few years ago would have made more sense. In a way, with where he is physically now at his age, I think CB makes more sense from him. Interesting to see if he'll be back. Bears may offer him a two year deal to entice him back. I know with what his daughter has been through medically, he really isn't interested in leaving Chicago.

I know it's not Thompson's nature, but Tillman would be a hell of a pick up by the Pack. I guess though that depends on Capers future.

[GGGG]

I know it's not Thompson's nature, but Tillman would be a hell of a pick up by the Pack. I guess though that depends on Capers future.

To be honest, that is why I asked. 

[brandx]

Can Peanut play safety?

Tillman is a free agent after the season - at age 33 and with injuries piling up last 2-3 years, he won't be back unless it is at a much lower salary. He may have a good year or two left - so maybe someone will give him a deal.

[brandx]

Back up.  Seneca Wallace goes on IR.  If he does OK, my guess is that Tolzien is the primary back up next year.

Hope so

[NavinRJohnson]

This upcoming Bears offseason is going to be fascinating. They have 27 players signed for 2014, that's it. That number includes Peppers, who will be released post June 1st, so the Bears can push the $8 mil dead money over 2 seasons. That'll save them the a $14 mil cap hit. Probably cutting Bush too, saving them $1.8 mil.

That means they'd have 25 players signed. I believe they have all 7 picks next year (I'm getting old, sick all week). That would give them 32 players...which means they have to sign 60 plus players...just to go to training camp.

By virtue, you have to franchise Cutler. Navin made a solid few points that I didn't think of (props to him), because it is complicated by the above. On one hand, you don't have the time to develop another guy based on where the offense is now. On the opposite hand, you don't have the resources, because you have so many positions to fill on your roster. You need a franchise QB, but is Cutler (at his age now) going to be worth that commitment? For the next year, I just don't think they have another route. But that's compounded because I don't know how they can take a QB high next year in the draft, when all (correct) logic suggests they should. Their safety play and d-line play is atrocious. Heck, they're entire D at every spot needs major, major help.

Wanna complicate it even further...lets say they do pay and stick with Cutler for the immediate-term, and a guy like Manziel, or Hundly from UCLA is on the board when the Bears pick comes up, or Bridgewater falls A la Aaron Rodgers. Now what do you do?

[brandx]

Wanna complicate it even further...lets say they do pay and stick with Cutler for the immediate-term, and a guy like Manziel, or Hundly from UCLA is on the board when the Bears pick comes up, or Bridgewater falls A la Aaron Rodgers. Now what do you do?

Depends how brave Emery is. GB had no plans to take a QB in the 1st round until Aaron became available.

One of hardest parts of job is assessing current vs. future needs.