2013 NFC North/NFL Thread

[Atticus]

Punters generally are not drafted. They are signed afterwards. There are some exceptions, but not many

BJ Sander.....third round pick.

[hairy worthen]

Please please OAK take Johnny Football.  Hilarity would ensue.

Yeah, I am hoping the vikings take him, good fit for them. This isn't the Al Davis Raiders anymore, McKenzie is slowly turning around the culture there and making better decisions.

[shiloh26]

BJ Sander.....third round pick.

That would be an exception, and an exceptionally stupid draft pick.  I recall Bryan Anger was also drafted in the third round, and the Vikings drafted Jeff Locke in the 5th, I think.  I really wonder what GMs are thinking when they spend a draft pick on such a low-value position.  Trying to grab depth literally anywhere on the roster is better than drafting a punter.

[DegenerateDish]

Looking at the game on Sunday, I still really like the Pack.

It's very difficult to beat a good team 3 teams in one calendar year, especially the third tilt being in Green Bay, and adding in the weather conditions.

I expect some wrinkles from San Fran's offense, but I think it benefits Green Bay's defense to have played San Fran twice in the last year.

Part of the reason I like the Pack is that, let's say the Pack come out, score on the opening drive, and Gore fumbles on the ensuing possession, GB scores again. San Fran's then on their heels, their offensive game plan changes, and I don't believe they have enough firepower to comeback (even against a mediocre Green Bay defense). The opposite though is true too, if the Pack gets down early, at home, with Rodgers back, I believe they have enough to mount a comeback.

If Green Bay protects Rodgers (I believe they will) and Lacy can pound the rock, I like the Pack by 10 on Sunday.

[MU B2002]

Punters generally are not drafted. They are signed afterwards. There are some exceptions, but not many

Yea I know, just think CHI needs a new one.  
I heard Kluwe is available.

[Atticus]

Yeah, I am hoping the vikings take him, good fit for them. This isn't the Al Davis Raiders anymore, McKenzie is slowly turning around the culture there and making better decisions.

I like the direction of the Bills as well. Buddy Nix is gone so there is nowhere to go but up.

[Coleman]

Yea I know, just think CHI needs a new one.  
I heard Kluwe is available.

He is. He's a solid punter too. But I'm not sure anyone would sign him at this point:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10232522/chris-kluwe-former-member-minnesota-vikings-says-was-cut-due-views

I don't even disagree with him. But he will bring a hell of a lot of distractions for anyone who signs him.

[jsglow]

Game is now a sell out.  Look for jsglow jr. and me in the crowd.  Enjoy your toasty family room.

[shiloh26]

Looking at the game on Sunday, I still really like the Pack.

It's very difficult to beat a good team 3 teams in one calendar year, especially the third tilt being in Green Bay, and adding in the weather conditions.

I expect some wrinkles from San Fran's offense, but I think it benefits Green Bay's defense to have played San Fran twice in the last year.

Part of the reason I like the Pack is that, let's say the Pack come out, score on the opening drive, and Gore fumbles on the ensuing possession, GB scores again. San Fran's then on their heels, their offensive game plan changes, and I don't believe they have enough firepower to comeback (even against a mediocre Green Bay defense). The opposite though is true too, if the Pack gets down early, at home, with Rodgers back, I believe they have enough to mount a comeback.

If Green Bay protects Rodgers (I believe they will) and Lacy can pound the rock, I like the Pack by 10 on Sunday.

The thing that worries me the most is that Harbaugh has thoroughly outcoached McCarthy the last 3 times they played... I just really hope that McCarthy and Capers aren't caught with their pants down yet again.  

On paper, I also like the Packers chances.  I don't think the Niners can control the clock like they have in past meetings - Frank Gore is still a decent back, but he has worn down this year, and I they do have a threatening passing game, but it is inconsistent.  Meanwhile, the Niners secondary is probably its weakest link, especially given that Aldon Smith (and accordingly, their pass rush) looks like a ghost of what he was last year and before rehab this year.  Hopefully, the run game can provide something against a very, very good run defense.  If Rodgers can stay upright and the running game can provide anything, I think the Packers are a really tough out. Nothing like 10 points, IMO, but a very good shot to win.

[hairy worthen]

Looking at the game on Sunday, I still really like the Pack.

It's very difficult to beat a good team 3 teams in one calendar year, especially the third tilt being in Green Bay, and adding in the weather conditions.

I expect some wrinkles from San Fran's offense, but I think it benefits Green Bay's defense to have played San Fran twice in the last year.

Part of the reason I like the Pack is that, let's say the Pack come out, score on the opening drive, and Gore fumbles on the ensuing possession, GB scores again. San Fran's then on their heels, their offensive game plan changes, and I don't believe they have enough firepower to comeback (even against a mediocre Green Bay defense). The opposite though is true too, if the Pack gets down early, at home, with Rodgers back, I believe they have enough to mount a comeback.

If Green Bay protects Rodgers (I believe they will) and Lacy can pound the rock, I like the Pack by 10 on Sunday.

Well that gives me hope, but I am not as optimistic.

I do think the weather will give the Packers some advantage. Usually I don’t think it matters, but the fact that San Fran flew in today to get acclimated to the weather shows it is already in their head.  Also, McCarthy practicing ball handling in the cold weather and the 49ers aren’t at least before today.  Having lived in warm climate, I know that you don’t get acclimated to the cold in a couple of days and it does affect you if you are not used to it.  Think how 50 degrees would feel to you in July and how it would feel  today.  

[MU82]

Gotcha.  But yeah, I just mean the amount of money these guys are getting is absurd.  Granted with taxes being taken out Jay won't see all $22 million, but that breaks down to well over $60,000/day.  Dear lord.

I get that the timeframe for which athletes are making money in that profession is extremely short compared to your 9-5 worker, but how in the world do these people run into financial issues?  Even if you're one of the lower paid athletes out there, come on.  If you're someone who can stick around as a career backup in the NBA (by far the lowest paying of the NFL, MLB, and NBA), you're still going to wind up making probably close to $25 million in your career.  For anybody else, making $100,000/year is nothing to sneeze at, and it takes you 10 years to make $1 million.  Some athletes are not very intelligent people...

It's supply and demand, plain and simple.

Nobody would try to claim that Jay Cutler is more valuable to society than a nurse or teacher or firefighter. But you or I or anybody with ambition can become a nurse or teacher or firefighter. In the world, there literally are millions of nurses and teachers and firefighters.

Meanwhile, in the entire world there are 32 starting NFL quarterbacks. In the entire world, there are only 750 ML ballplayers, only 480 NBA basketball players, etc. And of those tiny percentages of society, an even smaller percentage are elite athletes who make "Cutler money."

The same is true of entertainers. There are 7 billion people in the world, but only a few hundred in the class of Jagger, Kanye, Clooney, Streep, etc. It isn't important that you don't think Bieber is in that class; somebody does, and that's all that matters.

Do they deserve that money? What does deserving have to do with anything?

Are they worth that money? They are worth exactly what somebody will pay them -- as are you, me and everybody else.

My only beef is with CEOs of major corporations, especially those who are born into money, get the reins of a company, run said company into the ground, fleece the shareholders, lay off the employees and still either stay in charge or leave with $50 million golden parachutes.

LeBron James was born with great abilities and worked his ass off to become the best in the world at what he does. He deserves every penny somebody wants to pay him. With the proper training, LeBron could learn to be a CEO, and probably a damn good one. No matter how much training a CEO gets, he can't learn to be LeBron.

[Hards Alumni]

I think that whoever scores first in the GB/SF game will get a large advantage.  If that doubles into two scores up, the game will be hard to come back from for either team.

[brandx]

It's supply and demand, plain and simple.

Do they deserve that money? What does deserving have to do with anything?

Are they worth that money? They are worth exactly what somebody will pay them -- as are you, me and everybody else.

The whole answer in a nutshell

[forgetful]

It's supply and demand, plain and simple.

Nobody would try to claim that Jay Cutler is more valuable to society than a nurse or teacher or firefighter. But you or I or anybody with ambition can become a nurse or teacher or firefighter. In the world, there literally are millions of nurses and teachers and firefighters.

Meanwhile, in the entire world there are 32 starting NFL quarterbacks. In the entire world, there are only 750 ML ballplayers, only 480 NBA basketball players, etc. And of those tiny percentages of society, an even smaller percentage are elite athletes who make "Cutler money."

The same is true of entertainers. There are 7 billion people in the world, but only a few hundred in the class of Jagger, Kanye, Clooney, Streep, etc. It isn't important that you don't think Bieber is in that class; somebody does, and that's all that matters.

Do they deserve that money? What does deserving have to do with anything?

Are they worth that money? They are worth exactly what somebody will pay them -- as are you, me and everybody else.

My only beef is with CEOs of major corporations, especially those who are born into money, get the reins of a company, run said company into the ground, fleece the shareholders, lay off the employees and still either stay in charge or leave with $50 million golden parachutes.

LeBron James was born with great abilities and worked his ass off to become the best in the world at what he does. He deserves every penny somebody wants to pay him. With the proper training, LeBron could learn to be a CEO, and probably a damn good one. No matter how much training a CEO gets, he can't learn to be LeBron.

There are lots of professions that are as limited in the numbers capable of performing them that make no where near the money that Athletes/Entertainers/CEOs make.  An example is in science.  There are literally at most 50-100 people in the world capable of CURING diseases like Cancer/Diabetes.  They are making in the 80k-150k range.  The Athletes/Entertainers/CEOs make that kind of money largely, because of ingrained culture and historical tendencies, less of actual supply and demand.

[hairy worthen]

There are lots of professions that are as limited in the numbers capable of performing them that make no where near the money that Athletes/Entertainers/CEOs make.  An example is in science.  There are literally at most 50-100 people in the world capable of CURING diseases like Cancer/Diabetes.  They are making in the 80k-150k range.  The Athletes/Entertainers/CEOs make that kind of money largely, because of ingrained culture and historical tendencies, less of actual supply and demand.

I bet there aren't a whole lot of people willing to shell out $125 a piece for a ticket to watch scientists try and cure cancer in 10 below zero tempurature. 

Yes it is supply and demand. No knock on scientists or docors or any other profession.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

He is. He's a solid punter too. But I'm not sure anyone would sign him at this point:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10232522/chris-kluwe-former-member-minnesota-vikings-says-was-cut-due-views

I don't even disagree with him. But he will bring a hell of a lot of distractions for anyone who signs him.

He is also known as one of the best field goal/extra point holders in the NFL.

[forgetful]

I bet there aren't a whole lot of people willing to shell out $125 a piece for a ticket to watch scientists try and cure cancer in 10 below zero tempurature.  

Yes it is supply and demand. No knock on scientists or docors or any other profession.

If it was supply and demand teams wouldn't be required to spend 89% in cash of the total salary cap...and the amount due to the players wouldn't be required to be 55%.

Also, your average scientist is also teaching at a University, where students are buying $100-$300 tickets per class (per day) to watch scientists who are trying to cure cancer.  

Won't really comment much more on this...I just always find it funny when people claim the NFL is supply and demand.  There isn't anything supply and demand about the NFL.

[brandx]

If it was supply and demand teams wouldn't be required to spend 89% in cash of the total salary cap...and the amount due to the players wouldn't be required to be 55%.

Also, your average scientist is also teaching at a University, where students are buying $100-$300 tickets per class (per day) to watch scientists who are trying to cure cancer.  

Won't really comment much more on this...I just always find it funny when people claim the NFL is supply and demand.  There isn't anything supply and demand about the NFL.

We demand to be entertained - hence if you can sing, dance, act, throw a ball, etc. better than just about anyone else, you will make lots of money.

And there are not a lot of people who can do that. If there were 10,000 Bono's around, Bono wouldn't make what he does.

[hairy worthen]

If it was supply and demand teams wouldn't be required to spend 89% in cash of the total salary cap...and the amount due to the players wouldn't be required to be 55%.

Also, your average scientist is also teaching at a University, where students are buying $100-$300 tickets per class (per day) to watch scientists who are trying to cure cancer.  

Won't really comment much more on this...I just always find it funny when people claim the NFL is supply and demand.  There isn't anything supply and demand about the NFL.

You are confusing value to society to popularity. No one is arguing the value of scientists, etc. 

[g0lden3agle]

If it was supply and demand teams wouldn't be required to spend 89% in cash of the total salary cap...and the amount due to the players wouldn't be required to be 55%.

Also, your average scientist is also teaching at a University, where students are buying $100-$300 tickets per class (per day) to watch scientists who are trying to cure cancer.  

Won't really comment much more on this...I just always find it funny when people claim the NFL is supply and demand.  There isn't anything supply and demand about the NFL.

What do the Union negotiations have to do with the supply and demand of quality position players in the NFL?  

Fact - There is a quantifiable number of quality players in the NFL, for which there is a quantifiable demand.  Based on this supply of players and the employers demand for them their salaries fluctuate.

[martyconlonontherun]

He is also known as one of the best field goal/extra point holders in the NFL.

Not many teams put premiums on that. I don't disagree with his views, but he has shown a lot of immaturity from the lockout, to the deadspin article, to posting controversial views. He wasn't that good. He was in the bottom third coming off knee surgery. He kept saying in the article he was told to kick higher for more FC's, yet he was near the bottom in FC's with 12 all year.

[Archies Bat]

Unless the topic is an "idiot kicker who got liquored up and ran his mouth off. The sad thing is, he's a good kicker. He's a good kicker, but he's an idiot," discussion of an out of work kicker might be one thing that shouldn't clog up a thread on scoop.

[DegenerateDish]

Some interesting chatter out there regarding the Pack/Niners game, and how the NFL could have done a lot more for all involved.

The sexy matchups this weekend are the two NFC games, both the teams involved and TV markets. One of the two NFC games was going to be the Saturday night NBC game. The other was going to be the late game on Sunday.

The NFL could have avoided (or curbed) the potential Packer blackout and some weather concerns by having the Pack/Niners game be the early game on Saturday. It's supposed to be (I believe) mid 20's on Saturday afternoon in Green Bay, and if the late game on Sunday and weather conditions contributed to people not buying tickets, the Saturday afternoon kick may have subsided a lot of those concerns.

I know TV drives everything, but the NFL was short sighted here in hindsight, they had time to plan this out better, and give Packer/Niner fans going to the game more of an opportunity to enjoy being there and prevent a game being played in the forecasted conditions on Sunday.

[Coleman]

Not many teams put premiums on that. I don't disagree with his views, but he has shown a lot of immaturity from the lockout, to the deadspin article, to posting controversial views. He wasn't that good. He was in the bottom third coming off knee surgery. He kept saying in the article he was told to kick higher for more FC's, yet he was near the bottom in FC's with 12 all year.

I agree. I read his entire deadspin article.

He was tweeting about the Pope, called other NFL players D-bags, etc.

It was brave of him to stand up for marriage equality, and I agree with him, but he also kind of strikes me as a guy who just likes the limelight. Not sure you want that in your punter/holder.

[brandx]

Unless the topic is an "idiot kicker who got liquored up and ran his mouth off. The sad thing is, he's a good kicker. He's a good kicker, but he's an idiot," discussion of an out of work kicker might be one thing that shouldn't clog up a thread on scoop.

It's good to know that you think you should be the arbiter of all things Scoop, but it seems as good as any other topic on the Superbar.

Was he right taking a stand? Yes
Does he come off as someone seeking attention? Yes