2013 NFC North/NFL Thread

[hairy worthen]

Well, I think this is a semantics issue. I'm using "ego" as all encompassing (competitive, drive, leadership, prima donna, etc.)

As far as interceptions vs sack, you are 100% correct... but part of made #4 great was his ability to take a chance and make a great play. If he just "takes the sack" in those situations, he makes less mistakes, but also less great plays.

Correct,  he takes the sack he makes less great plays, absolutely, however you are talking about one of the greatest QBs of all time. He was great because he was able to make the great plays and because he took the chance. You can’t extrapolate that to the average QB and say if QB Joe Blow takes more chances he will make more great plays, not necessarily true.

[mu-rara]

In 6 1/2 seasons as an NFL starter, Jay Cutler has won one playoff game.

He's also 1-7 against the Packers.

He also choked like a dog down the stretch in his last season with the Broncos (2008), turning an almost certain playoff berth into dust.

Obviously, he should be nicknamed "Mr. Big Game."

Was he peeing while he choked?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Correct,  he takes the sack he makes less great plays, absolutely, however you are talking about one of the greatest QBs of all time. He was great because he was able to make the great plays and because he took the chance. You can’t extrapolate that to the average QB and say if QB Joe Blow takes more chances he will make more great plays, not necessarily true.

Right, I agree with you 100%.

That's why I said WITH FAVRE, the knife cuts both ways. He throws too many picks because he takes too many chances... but because he takes chances (and is amazing at football), he made a lot of plays.

He made a boneheaded play against NEO, but without his willingness to take chances throughout the year, that team would never have been that good.

I'm not extrapolating this style of play to any other QB. Favre, and Favre only.

I'll leave Cutler vs A-Rog up to the other football fans.

[Hards Alumni]

Right, I agree with you 100%.

That's why I said WITH FAVRE, the knife cuts both ways. He throws too many picks because he takes too many chances... but because he takes chances (and is amazing at football), he made a lot of plays.

He made a boneheaded play against NEO, but without his willingness to take chances throughout the year, that team would never have been that good.

I'm not extrapolating this style of play to any other QB. Favre, and Favre only.

I'll leave Cutler vs A-Rog up to the other football fans.

That isn't really a debate.

[hairy worthen]

Right, I agree with you 100%.

That's why I said WITH FAVRE, the knife cuts both ways. He throws too many picks because he takes too many chances... but because he takes chances (and is amazing at football), he made a lot of plays.

He made a boneheaded play against NEO, but without his willingness to take chances throughout the year, that team would never have been that good.

I'm not extrapolating this style of play to any other QB. Favre, and Favre only.

I'll leave Cutler vs A-Rog up to the other football fans.

ok, I only made the distinction because someone had compared different styles of QB play in an earlier post.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

ok, I only made the distinction because someone had compared different styles of QB play in an earlier post.

yep, and that person wasn't me.

 

[jmayer1]

Rodgers doesn't like to throw the ball away because of his ego (likes his stats - leads to sacks).

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. Rodgers throws the ball away when he is in a position to do so (on the edge, when the rush isn't in his face, can throw to somebody's feet). But there are times when he can't (still in the pocket, rush is to him and he can't follow through without risk of a turnover, no available option to throw it away).

[jmayer1]

To further my argument, take a look at the advanced stats from last season through 11/22 (you have to be a member to access the whole season) according to the linked article.

Rodgers throws the ball away quite often under pressure, 12.5%  of the time (8th most out of 34 rated). For comparison, Culter throws it away only 3.8% of the time (32/34). I think that directly contradicts your statement that "Rodgers doesn't like to throw the ball away because of his ego (likes his stats - leads to sacks)."

Of course, this is only for part of 1 season, but based on what I've seen from Rodgers over the years, the stats agree with my eyes. I wish I had access to these stats from different/whole season, but I guess I'm too cheap to shell out $27 for premium package.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/22/sig-stats-snapshot-passing-under-pressure/

[MerrittsMustache]

To further my argument, take a look at the advanced stats from last season through 11/22 (you have to be a member to access the whole season) according to the linked article.

Rodgers throws the ball away quite often under pressure, 12.5%  of the time (8th most out of 34 rated). For comparison, Culter throws it away only 3.8% of the time (32/34). I think that directly contradicts your statement that "Rodgers doesn't like to throw the ball away because of his ego (likes his stats - leads to sacks)."

Of course, this is only for part of 1 season, but based on what I've seen from Rodgers over the years, the stats agree with my eyes. I wish I had access to these stats from different/whole season, but I guess I'm too cheap to shell out $27 for premium package.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/22/sig-stats-snapshot-passing-under-pressure/

Interesting stats.

While Rodgers is 8th in throwaway percentage, he's also 2nd in sack percentage meaning he has more opportunities to throw the ball, but doesn't (obviously not saying he should throw it away every time he's pressured but there are times when he eats it as opposed to chucking it out of bounds).

Both those percentages lead me to believe that he doesn't throw the ball away as much as he could, but does throw the ball away more than I had given him credit for.

[MU82]

Rodgers has accomplished a thing or two in his NFL career.

The only things Cutler has accomplished: Earning a lot of money and getting coaches fired. Sure he's got talent. He's the biggest "tease" in many a year.

BTW, I am neither a Packers fan nor a Bears fan. Completely agnostic on the NFC North. I just appreciate good QB play ... and know when I don't see it!

[wadesworld]

LOL!  Ponder and his dead arm are a complete joke.  The BILLS "exotic" defense confused him?  You're a starting NFL QB and you can't figure out gimmick defenses?  Haha.  Hilarious.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000231041/article/christian-ponder-bills-exotic-defense-confused-vikes

Anyhow, on to the adult league.  Call Eddie Lacey fat all you want, but he is a GROWN ASS MAN!  Second round pick?  Oops, thank you!  Man, our offense is going to be as good as I've ever seen it, and that is SCARY!

[Jay Bee]

LOL!  Ponder and his dead arm are a complete joke.  The BILLS "exotic" defense confused him?  You're a starting NFL QB and you can't figure out gimmick defenses?  Haha.  Hilarious.

Your point is well taken and honestly I couldn't care less about the preseason

The sooner Cassel gets in there, the better. SKOL VIKINGS

[wadesworld]

The sooner Cassel gets in there, the better. SKOL VIKINGS

No kidding, and that's sad. Cassel sucks ass too. And who's he going to throw the ball to? Oh yeah, the best wide receiver since Randy Moss for the Vikings, Greg Jennings! Wait a minute, you mean the same guy who was the 4th best receiver on the Packers last year and left because he'd never see the ball this year? Weird. Poor Adrian Peterson. If he didn't eat HGH gummies like cops eat jelly doughnuts he'd be hurting with all the touches he'll need to keep the Vikings afloat.

[Blackhat]

Lacy does look tubby.   Goes to show the Pack have a weak S&C program....ain't supplying him the roids like Alabama did.

[setyoursightsnorth]

LOL!  Ponder and his dead arm are a complete joke.  The BILLS "exotic" defense confused him?  You're a starting NFL QB and you can't figure out gimmick defenses?  Haha.  Hilarious.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000231041/article/christian-ponder-bills-exotic-defense-confused-vikes

Anyhow, on to the adult league.  Call Eddie Lacey fat all you want, but he is a GROWN ASS MAN!  Second round pick?  Oops, thank you!  Man, our offense is going to be as good as I've ever seen it, and that is SCARY!

Adding Lacy didn't add to your running attack. Sure, he'll maybe get ten touches a game, but Alabama running backs almost never match their college potential. I think Lacy is more of a product of the Alabama O-Line if anything. But having one of the best offensive lines in college, it made him look a lot better than he really is. Similar to the Hogs of the Washington Redskins. During Super Bowl XXII, one Timmy Smith set the record for most rushing yards in the big game, finishing with 204 yards; one than one third of his NFL career rush yards came from that game. He was a no-name player but his name is now in the history books. I'm not saying Lacy will disappear or be an unknown; I just think you guys have your expectations set a little bit too high for him. He's a product of the Alabama O-line.

[wadesworld]

Adding Lacy didn't add to your running attack. Sure, he'll maybe get ten touches a game, but Alabama running backs almost never match their college potential. I think Lacy is more of a product of the Alabama O-Line if anything. But having one of the best offensive lines in college, it made him look a lot better than he really is. Similar to the Hogs of the Washington Redskins. During Super Bowl XXII, one Timmy Smith set the record for most rushing yards in the big game, finishing with 204 yards; one than one third of his NFL career rush yards came from that game. He was a no-name player but his name is now in the history books. I'm not saying Lacy will disappear or be an unknown; I just think you guys have your expectations set a little bit too high for him. He's a product of the Alabama O-line.

Don't watch the highlights of him running over 6 defenders in 1 play and 3-4 in 2 other plays last night then.  8 rushes for 40 yards, and I'm guessing 35 of those came after first contact.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

The Wilfs strike me as a little smarmy.

Further proof.

Superior Court Judge Deanne Wilson delivered sharp words for Zygi Wilf, saying his testimony exhibited “bad faith and evil motive.”

http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/220067381.html

[🏀]

but Alabama running backs almost never match their college potential. He's a product of the Alabama O-line.

Trent Richardson disagrees with you.

[hairy worthen]

Don't watch the highlights of him running over 6 defenders in 1 play and 3-4 in 2 other plays last night then.  8 rushes for 40 yards, and I'm guessing 35 of those came after first contact.

Lot of running backs look good in the preseason so we will see. He did look impressive though and could be the steal of the draft. You can see the impact he had on the passing game. Play action was wide open.

[MU B2002]

Steal of the draft is going to be the honey badger.

[hairy worthen]

Steal of the draft is going to be the honey badger.

Could be if he keeps his head on straight.

[forgetful]

Steal of the draft is going to be the honey badger.

I'm not saying he won't have a possibility of success.

But he is far more likely to end up spending his life behind bars.  I'm afraid that he is an example of a person who will never see personal success, because they are too busy trying to destroy themselves.

[Sunbelt15]

Adding Lacy didn't add to your running attack. Sure, he'll maybe get ten touches a game, but Alabama running backs almost never match their college potential. I think Lacy is more of a product of the Alabama O-Line if anything. But having one of the best offensive lines in college, it made him look a lot better than he really is. Similar to the Hogs of the Washington Redskins. During Super Bowl XXII, one Timmy Smith set the record for most rushing yards in the big game, finishing with 204 yards; one than one third of his NFL career rush yards came from that game. He was a no-name player but his name is now in the history books. I'm not saying Lacy will disappear or be an unknown; I just think you guys have your expectations set a little bit too high for him. He's a product of the Alabama O-line.

Watch the games and not the stat sheets.

[DegenerateDish]

I know it's preseason, but man are the Raiders bad.

[jesmu84]

Vince young ftw!