2013 NFC North/NFL Thread

[forgetful]

LOL!

Dallas 2-2 (only wins are against dreadful Rams and dreadful/NFC East opponent NYG)
Philadelphia 1-3 (only win is over NFC East opponent Washington)
Washington 1-3 (only win is over dreadful Oakland...0-2 against NFC North)
NYG 0-4

Could this be the worst division in the history of football?  Wait, they're the TOUGHEST and will PROVE IT this year...AGAIN!

I agree that they are pretty awful this year.  Dallas could be good.  Problem is, they are a team full of head cases.  If they come together and play to potential they are one of the best.  More often than not though they are a team of me-firsts and will likely be 9-9 or 10-6 with at most 1 win in the playoffs.  Get them to gel though and watch out.

[Dish]

I can't remember a season with so many beyond awful teams. That's not even getting to the really bad teams.

Beyond Awful: Jacksonville (going 0-16, and that is saying a lot), Giants (outscored 69-7 last two weeks), Washington, Tampa (I was way off on them), St. Louis (Bradford is owed $27 mil next two years), Oakland

Really Bad: Pittsburgh, Arizona, Minny, Jets (awful when on road), Bills (awful when not at home), Philly (could be awful), Carolina

It's real tough to find middle class teams, usually there's a ton. Balt, Texans, maybe Colts, maybe Bears, Dallas for sure.

I wish I could buy stock in the Browns making the playoffs next year, that team is setting itself up. Heck, they are in first now.

[MU B2002]

Took my daughter to the Jags game today.  Stadium was maybe 1/2 full. (Ignoring the 23 tarp covered sections) Not only are they going 0-16, I believe it is possible that they might never have a lead after half.  They lead 3-0 today, largest lead of the year.

[nyg]

I can't remember a season with so many beyond awful teams. That's not even getting to the really bad teams.

Beyond Awful: Jacksonville (going 0-16, and that is saying a lot), Giants (outscored 69-7 last two weeks), Washington, Tampa (I was way off on them), St. Louis (Bradford is owed $27 mil next two years), Oakland

Really Bad: Pittsburgh, Arizona, Minny, Jets (awful when on road), Bills (awful when not at home), Philly (could be awful), Carolina

It's real tough to find middle class teams, usually there's a ton. Balt, Texans, maybe Colts, maybe Bears, Dallas for sure.

I wish I could buy stock in the Browns making the playoffs next year, that team is setting itself up. Heck, they are in first now.

Beat me to the post. Some teams are just brutal to watch.  The Ravens look great one week, then have like 25 yards rushing today and Flacco throws 5 ints in loss to Buffalo.  Houston up big, then Matt S. throws horrendous, stupid interception and blows it.  Jets defense is awesome, yet Geno Smith has 2 interceptions and 2 fumbles, all of which Tenn scores a TD, 28 points.  On and on and on.......each week.  

2014 draft will have 5 to 6 QBs selected in the first round.  Thats how bad the QBs are playing so far this
year.  

[MerrittsMustache]

The Coach Killer showed up as his usual, panicky self.  

Clearly you didn't actually watch the game.

It's easy to look at the stats and/or highlights and say that, but in reality, he didn't play like the frustrated chucker that he has at time in the past.

[NavinRJohnson]

Clearly you didn't actually watch the game.

It's easy to look at the stats and/or highlights and say that, but in reality, he didn't play like the frustrated chucker that he has at time in the past.

Boy, I don't know. Not,sure how else you'd describe those INTs...balls that just should not have been thrown, and put them in a hole they had no chance of escaping.

[GGGG]

Cutler just looked very off yesterday.  Wasn't as sharp as he had been the previous games.  I still think you can win with him, and when you look at the oodles of crap quarterbacks out there, is better than most.

[MerrittsMustache]

Boy, I don't know. Not,sure how else you'd describe those INTs...balls that just should not have been thrown, and put them in a hole they had no chance of escaping.

One INT was just an overthrow to Jeffery. That's on Cutler, no doubt, but it wasn't necessarily a poor decision.

On Delmas' first INT, Jeffery slowed his route but Cutler expected him to keep going across the field. If he keeps going, he beats Delmas to the ball. Delmas timed it perfectly and may have still broken it up, but wouldn't have intercepted it.

On the INT that was returned to the 1, Cutler put too much air under it and the safety got there. They ran that same route twice later in the game and got a big gain and a TD.

All in all, it just wasn't the Bears' day. Bush fumbled but the Lions fell on it and then scored on the next play. Stafford fumbled at the goal line and the ball looked like it was going to land right in Wootton's arms heading the other way, but instead Stafford snatched it back and scored. The Bears' D relies heavily on turnovers (especially since they've been giving up big chunks of yardage) and when the ball's not bouncing their way, they're going to have trouble...especially when the O turns it over 4 times.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Clearly you didn't actually watch the game.

It's easy to look at the stats and/or highlights and say that, but in reality, he didn't play like the frustrated chucker that he has at time in the past.

Clearly I did and so did every analyst I heard. One of the INTs was a good defensive play...the rest were the return of the really bad mechanics and fundamentals.  Throwing off the back foot, not squaring up and thus overthrowing, holding the ball too long on the fumble when the defense jumped into the passing lane on his first option (throw it away that deep a don't hold that ball so loosely which is his MO and defenses have marked him). His four turnovers led to 17 points...and kept his defense on the field too long.  Oh yeah, great third down efficiency too (1-13).  

The guy has talent when it is harnessed...but he doesn't want to be so at age 30, you get what you get.  Besides, he married a Barrington girl.  

That said, he had a nice come back where he settled down, and he didn't have the Jay excuses post-game so there is room for encouragement.  But all those yards where against a prevent defense.  

[MerrittsMustache]

Clearly I did and so did every analyst I heard. One of the INTs was a good defensive play...the rest were the return of the really bad mechanics and fundamentals.  Throwing off the back foot, not squaring up and thus overthrowing, holding the ball too long on the fumble when the defense jumped into the passing lane on his first option (throw it away that deep a don't hold that ball so loosely which is his MO and defenses have marked him). His four turnovers led to 17 points...and kept his defense on the field too long.  Oh yeah, great third down efficiency too (1-13).  

Then you don't have a good understanding of football. Poor mechanics doesn't necessarily mean "panicking." Cutler throws TD passes with poor mechanics. Is he panicking in those situations too? He overthrew Jeffery and put too much air under the pass to Marshall (not to mention, he was going for the back shoulder throw but Marshall didn't make the same read). Is that panicking? He made good throws on the same route later in the game. Was he panicking one the first throw but not on the second two? When the WR slows on his route and the QB doesn't expect him to, is that panicking? Obviously Cutler didn't play well, but to simply chalk it up to him panicking is lazy and inaccurate.

I'm more than willing to admit that Cutler is never going to be on the Manning/Brady/Brees level of elite QBs. However, teams can win Super Bowls with QBs just below that elite level and Cutler has the ability to do just that.

[GGGG]

Cutler reminds me of a "not as good" Brett Favre.  Favre did a lot of the same things Cutler did (throw off the back foot, say "f*ck it" and threw into coverage anyway), but because he was simply better, got away with them more often.

[JWags85]

The guy has talent when it is harnessed...but he doesn't want to be so at age 30, you get what you get.  Besides, he married a Barrington girl.  

Two things I will never understand about Cutler criticism.  1) Your first comment about "not wanting to be".  Why do people continually act like he doesn't give a crap about winning and just does his stuff his own way?  If you've not seen his development and improvement over the last few years, and this season especially, you're just looking for continuing narratives in which to criticize him.  He needs to show more consistency but stop pretending like he's terrible cause he doesn't want to be better.

2) Who gives a flying f*&k who he married?  I've seen 4-5 comments on this thread about it as if its some contributing factor to his play.  Let him live his life.  Rodgers is marrying some white trash chick named Destiny, if the Packers don't turn it around, is she a reason too?

Either way, the Bears played like crap on both sides of the ball and it will be interesting to see how Trestman rebounds from his first poor performance as HC.

[MerrittsMustache]

Cutler reminds me of a "not as good" Brett Favre.  Favre did a lot of the same things Cutler did (throw off the back foot, say "f*ck it" and threw into coverage anyway), but because he was simply better, got away with them more often.

If you consider "getting away with it" as throwing fewer interceptions and completing more passes, Favre's career INT% is 3.3%, while Cutler's is 3.4%. Favre's career completion percentage is 62.0%, while Cutler's is 60.9%. He didn't really get away with it as much more as you'd think.


Addition: If you actually look at Favre's first 8 seasons as a starter compared to Cutler's...

Favre: INT% 3.2%, Comp% 61.2%
Cutler: INT%: 3.4%, Comp% 60.9%

I wouldn't have thought those numbers would be that close.

[jesmu84]

my favorite fact about the "coach killer" moniker is how everyone conveniently forgets that all the coaches that have been fired around cutler have rarely been re-hired. which pretty obviously means that there is little interest/belief out there that these coaches still have a place in the NFL.

[GGGG]

If you consider "getting away with it" as throwing fewer interceptions and completing more passes, Favre's career INT% is 3.3%, while Cutler's is 3.4%. Favre's career completion percentage is 62.0%, while Cutler's is 60.9%. He didn't really get away with it as much more as you'd think.

How do you know what "I think?"  Favre threw less interceptions, more TDs, more yards, and had a higher completion percentage.  I said that he was a "not as good" version as Favre, and the statistics bear that out.

[MerrittsMustache]

How do you know what "I think?"  Favre threw less interceptions, more TDs, more yards, and had a higher completion percentage.  I said that he was a "not as good" version as Favre, and the statistics bear that out.

Someone's cranky this morning.

I was using "you" as third person. Admittedly, I should have said: He didn't really get away with it as much more as one would think.

I was simply speaking in terms of Favre getting away with it more often, which is what you stated. Since there's no stat for "bad throw that the QB got away with," I used two stats that I believe most represent that. Using only those numbers, their ability to "get away with it" is pretty similar.

[GGGG]

Someone's cranky this morning.

Nope.  Now you are not only telling me what I think, but how I feel.  Are you going to tell me what I should have for lunch too?

[Dish]

I thought Cutler was terrible yesterday. As bad as the picks were, the fumble was a killer.

Lions were driving to go up 21. Wright gets the interception off the Megatron tip. With a TD, Bears can cut it to 7. Cutler stays in the pocket way too long, doesn't get rid of it, fumbles, TD Lions.

I don't know if the Bears would have driven 85 yards or not to score there, but that can't happen.

[setyoursightsnorth]

How do you know what "I think?"  Favre threw less interceptions, more TDs, more yards, and had a higher completion percentage.  I said that he was a "not as good" version as Favre, and the statistics bear that out.

He also had a career that is twice as long as cutlers. Favre is the career leader in interceptions. No one has thrown more in the history of the game. Lolz. I get he had a lower interception percentage, but he threw a hell of a lot more.

[MerrittsMustache]

Nope.  Now you are not only telling me what I think, but how I feel.  Are you going to tell me what I should have for lunch too?

I don't know how you're feeling, but you're acting like...someone who's cranky. (edited to avoid a potential ban...and for the kids)

At least you avoided the point of my post.

[GGGG]

At least you avoided the point of my post.

No, actually I addressed it pretty much earlier.  And it proved my point.  A less talented version of Favre.

He also had a career that is twice as long as cutlers. Favre is the career leader in interceptions. No one has thrown more in the history of the game. Lolz. I get he had a lower interception percentage, but he threw a hell of a lot more.

I was basing all of the stats on a percentage (INT, TD)  or per-game (yards) basis.  Didn't think that had to be explained.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Then you don't have a good understanding of football. Poor mechanics doesn't necessarily mean "panicking." Cutler throws TD passes with poor mechanics. Is he panicking in those situations too? He overthrew Jeffery and put too much air under the pass to Marshall (not to mention, he was going for the back shoulder throw but Marshall didn't make the same read). Is that panicking? He made good throws on the same route later in the game. Was he panicking one the first throw but not on the second two? When the WR slows on his route and the QB doesn't expect him to, is that panicking? Obviously Cutler didn't play well, but to simply chalk it up to him panicking is lazy and inaccurate.

I'm more than willing to admit that Cutler is never going to be on the Manning/Brady/Brees level of elite QBs. However, teams can win Super Bowls with QBs just below that elite level and Cutler has the ability to do just that.

Yes, I am an idiot savant of NFL talent evaluation.  Who knew the NFL scouts look for a bad mechanics QB? As Trestman said post game, the receivers were wide open on the picks...Cutler's happy feet and panic passes returned and the result of his poor fundamentals resulted in 17 points going the other way.  

Look, the guy has incredible talent but he is better outside an offense. You get the great and the poor.  Unfortunately, there is a lot more poor than great. Trestman said at half time that the team needs to settle down and be patient. Maybe Trestman can do that with Cutler...but the old returned yesterday. Brutal.

Btw, I am a Bears fan...and as to the Barrington jab, it is Monday morning...some of you need to grow a sense of humor.

[MU82]

If you consider "getting away with it" as throwing fewer interceptions and completing more passes, Favre's career INT% is 3.3%, while Cutler's is 3.4%. Favre's career completion percentage is 62.0%, while Cutler's is 60.9%. He didn't really get away with it as much more as you'd think.


Addition: If you actually look at Favre's first 8 seasons as a starter compared to Cutler's...

Favre: INT% 3.2%, Comp% 61.2%
Cutler: INT%: 3.4%, Comp% 60.9%

I wouldn't have thought those numbers would be that close.

One other relevant stat for Favre's first eight seasons as a starter:

8 winning seasons, 9 playoff victories, two NFC titles, one Super Bowl championship.

Jay Cutler:

2 winning seasons, 1 playoff victory, 0 conference titles, 0 Super Bowls.

I do agree with the premise that Cutler is Favre Lite. Favre Very, Very Lite.

[NavinRJohnson]

Comparisons to Favre are kinda silly. Similar style? Sure. Favre is a HoFer and an all-time QB. Jay Cutler...is not. That's not to say he isn't any good because he is, but doesn't really belong in the same conversation as Favre.

[GGGG]

Comparisons to Favre are kinda silly. Similar style? Sure. Favre is a HoFer and an all-time QB. Jay Cutler...is not. That's not to say he isn't any good because he is, but doesn't really belong in the same conversation as Favre.

I have only compared their styles.  That's it.