2013 NFC North/NFL Thread

[CreightonWarrior]

The back end of the Packers' defense is at least as troubling as the D line.  Morgan Burnett is average at best, and M.D. Jennings/Jeronne McMillan/Chris Banjo/Sean Richardson had me flashing back to the Mark Roman days.  TT needs to draft at least one safety.

FWIW, I like Richardson enough as a developmental project, but he's not good enough now to be playing more than a few snaps.

First time since the 1950s that Packers safeties failed to have at least 1 interception on the season. There were a couple big plays, like the one where Shields got burned and should have had help over the top or on several of Forte's big runs where Burnett could've made a play and didn't.

Let's not forget Morgan's lateral to Shields after the fumble. What in the world was he thinking. One of the most baffling plays this whole season and Sam was certainly not expecting it.

[GGGG]

I don't think the line is nearly the problem that the linebackers are.  Brad Jones is serviceable but limited.  Lattimore doesn't look like he knows what he is doing.  Nick Perry is hovering near total bust category.

And as I have said for the last couple of years, Nick Collins was SOOOO much better than people give him credit for.  They haven't been able to come close to replacing him, and I doubt that they will be able to any time soon. 

And thank good Raji turned down the Packers contract extension.  He'll be signing with the Vikings sometime this off season.

[hairy worthen]

I don't think the line is nearly the problem that the linebackers are.  Brad Jones is serviceable but limited.  Lattimore doesn't look like he knows what he is doing.  Nick Perry is hovering near total bust category.

And as I have said for the last couple of years, Nick Collins was SOOOO much better than people give him credit for.  They haven't been able to come close to replacing him, and I doubt that they will be able to any time soon. 

And thank good Raji turned down the Packers contract extension.  He'll be signing with the Vikings sometime this off season.

Its the middle linebackers and safeties that are the problem.  Don't be surprised if TT goes into free agency for a safety or interior lineman. I think Pickett is done or at most a pay reduction to be backup, Raji may be gone as well and maybe jolly.  They will need a fat block eating lineman next year.

Too early to call Perry a bust. He has looked good at times this year. He is battling a foot injury that they say is limiting him.

[tower912]

Lions fire Schwartz

[shiloh26]

I don't think the line is nearly the problem that the linebackers are.  Brad Jones is serviceable but limited.  Lattimore doesn't look like he knows what he is doing.  Nick Perry is hovering near total bust category.

And as I have said for the last couple of years, Nick Collins was SOOOO much better than people give him credit for.  They haven't been able to come close to replacing him, and I doubt that they will be able to any time soon. 

And thank good Raji turned down the Packers contract extension.  He'll be signing with the Vikings sometime this off season.

Wow, three fair arguments that each of the three facets of the Packers' defense is the most disappointing. The more I think about it, how much is on Dom and how much is on TT?  I'm not necessarily defending Dom, I think he's failed to adapt his scheme to fit his personnel since Woodson declined and left, but there is a lot of pretty bad personnel on defense.  But for Clay, most his first round defensive selections (Harrell, Hawk, Raji - I'm omitting Perry and Jones for now as I think they need more time to play healthy to really evaluate) have been disappointing.  And yes, I'm including Raji for looking like a shadow of his 2010 self for 3 years now.

TT has done a good job building depth in the later rounds (Hyde, House, Daniels, Neal, etc... all fine mid round picks to round out a defense), but there is just not a lot of front line talent there.  

[GGGG]

Lions fire Schwartz

Too soon.  Needed more time

[GGGG]

Wow, three fair arguments that each of the three facets of the Packers' defense is the most disappointing. The more I think about it, how much is on Dom and how much is on TT?  I'm not necessarily defending Dom, I think he's failed to adapt his scheme to fit his personnel since Woodson declined and left, but there is a lot of pretty bad personnel on defense.  But for Clay, most his first round defensive selections (Harrell, Hawk, Raji - I'm omitting Perry and Jones for now as I think they need more time to play healthy to really evaluate) have been disappointing.  And yes, I'm including Raji for looking like a shadow of his 2010 self for 3 years now.

TT has done a good job building depth in the later rounds (Hyde, House, Daniels, Neal, etc... all fine mid round picks to round out a defense), but there is just not a lot of front line talent there. 

I go back and forth on this.  Capers didn't suddenly get bad.  But maybe the scheme was just too complex without veteran help in the secondary?  I mean, how can the Packers continue to screw up basics like run lane assignments?

And I do think TT has obviously drafted OK.  I like Hawk...yeah he was drafted high but is solid, never hurt, and knows where to go.  Raji was dominant for awhile, but like a lot of big guys has a short life span.  Yeah...Harrell was bad.

The lack of a top notch safety....and a decent rush OLB from the other side are I think where the biggest problems are.

So I don't know.  My guess is that if Capers is gone, that you will find a similar 3/4 guy to replace him that keeps most of the assistants in place.  They aren't going to make huge schematic or personnel changes IMO.  That's just not how the Packers do things.

[DegenerateDish]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I like the Packers path to get to the NFC title game. I think they can/will beat San Fran, I think they then go to Seattle and upset the Seahawks. The weakness of both the Seahawks and Niners are their passing games. Yes, the Pack D isn't great, but that's why I like these two matchups.

I think the run ends in Philly as the Eagles upset Carolina in the Division round and face the San Diego Chargers in a Super Bowl matchup few will have ever thought possible.

[Spotcheck Billy]

nm

[brandx]

Wow, three fair arguments that each of the three facets of the Packers' defense is the most disappointing. The more I think about it, how much is on Dom and how much is on TT?  I'm not necessarily defending Dom, I think he's failed to adapt his scheme to fit his personnel since Woodson declined and left, but there is a lot of pretty bad personnel on defense.  But for Clay, most his first round defensive selections (Harrell, Hawk, Raji - I'm omitting Perry and Jones for now as I think they need more time to play healthy to really evaluate) have been disappointing.  And yes, I'm including Raji for looking like a shadow of his 2010 self for 3 years now.

TT has done a good job building depth in the later rounds (Hyde, House, Daniels, Neal, etc... all fine mid round picks to round out a defense), but there is just not a lot of front line talent there.  

I always tend to say it is the players not the coaches, but guys are out of position play after play after play. How many times have we failed to see an OLB press to the middle as a RB goes wide. How many times are safeties not carrying out there assignments? It is game after game.

I don't know what is worse - a player with talent like Burnett out of position so often or a player like Conte who has very little talent who is in the right spot but can't make a play.

But Capers has to go. Raji gets about 10 sacks his 1st 2 years plus numerous tackles for loss and no sacks since. Did he just become a bad player or is it the scheme? Get rid of Capers.

You can watch Jauron at Pittsburgh and you can see what he is trying to do with his defense. I have never figured out what Capers philosophy is.

[tower912]

Too soon.  Needed more time

He had his 5 years.   It was ok to make a judgement. 

[GGGG]

But Capers has to go. Raji gets about 10 sacks his 1st 2 years plus numerous tackles for loss and no sacks since. Did he just become a bad player or is it the scheme? Get rid of Capers.

I would think it would have to be the player.  He's only played in Capers' scheme since coming to the NFL.  How would the scheme hold him back?

[MerrittsMustache]

I would think it would have to be the player.  He's only played in Capers' scheme since coming to the NFL.  How would the scheme hold him back?

Devil's advocate: The scheme could hold him back if the league has adjusted to it but Capers hasn't countered.

[GGGG]

Devil's advocate: The scheme could hold him back if the league has adjusted to it but Capers hasn't countered.

That might be a valid point.  I simply don't know.

And I really don't have any strong thoughts about Capers either way. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I like the Packers path to get to the NFC title game. I think they can/will beat San Fran, I think they then go to Seattle and upset the Seahawks. The weakness of both the Seahawks and Niners are their passing games. Yes, the Pack D isn't great, but that's why I like these two matchups.

I think the run ends in Philly as the Eagles upset Carolina in the Division round and face the San Diego Chargers in a Super Bowl matchup few will have ever thought possible.

Crazy.  They might beat SF, though I doubt it.  They aren't going to Seattle to win that game.

[DegenerateDish]

Crazy.  They might beat SF, though I doubt it.  They aren't going to Seattle to win that game.

I may be wrong, but chalk ain't going to the Super Bowl either.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I may be wrong, but chalk ain't going to the Super Bowl either.

Any sport with a playoff where one game is played, it's a crapshoot.  Less so in the NFL than the NCAA tournament, but still a crapshoot.  I would agree chalk likely won't happen, but the Packers can't stop anyone and have been gifted some wins here of late.  I don't see SF or Seattle or other good teams gifting is such a manner.

[Blackhat]

The D sucked before Capers.   It's a systemic problem imo.   Need to get stronger, S&C needs to change.  SF is big and cut, most of our guys are just fat and we must have the smallest MLB in the history of modern professional football.

[brandx]

Crazy.  They might beat SF, though I doubt it.  They aren't going to Seattle to win that game.

I look at it the other way. I don't think they can beat SF, but if they somehow do, I think they have a great chance of beating Seattle.

[MU82]

How would you like to have to be the Bears and face the prospect of giving a mega-contract to Jay Cutler? Wow.

[Coleman]

I look at it the other way. I don't think they can beat SF, but if they somehow do, I think they have a great chance of beating Seattle.

I disagree. I think the 49ers game is a 50/50 bet, mostly because its in Lambeau and forecasts are in the low 20s.

I don't see the Packers going to Seattle and beating the Seahawks though. But I will gladly be wrong.

[DegenerateDish]

I look at it the other way. I don't think they can beat SF, but if they somehow do, I think they have a great chance of beating Seattle.

Beauty of these playoffs is it's one game and any team can beat any other in the field.

Both Denver and Seattle lost meaningful home games in December. Seattle is vulnerable in my opinion.

I think the best matchups for the Pack in the NFC are San Fran and Seattle. I think Carolina and Philly are the two least favorable, that said though, anyone can win the conference.

[hairy worthen]

I look at it the other way. I don't think they can beat SF, but if they somehow do, I think they have a great chance of beating Seattle.

I agree, for some reason SF has the Packers number lately.  Seattle has an average offense, and good defense, which plays into the Packers strengths.

I do not think the Packers will even play Seattle if they get by SF. New Orleans will beat Philly and then go to Seattle, G B will go to Carolina.  

[brandx]

How would you like to have to be the Bears and face the prospect of giving a mega-contract to Jay Cutler? Wow.

Have fun with that. Matt Flynn "led GB to a 2-5-1 record. What was his QB rating for that impressive stretch? About the same as Cutler's career rating.

But Jay has shown he can lead a team to the playoffs once every 8 years, so if they sign him to an 8-year deal, Chi fans will have something to look forward too. Better than being a Cubbie fan!!

[brandx]

Beauty of these playoffs is it's one game and any team can beat any other in the field.

Both Denver and Seattle lost meaningful home games in December. Seattle is vulnerable in my opinion.

I think the best matchups for the Pack in the NFC are San Fran and Seattle. I think Carolina and Philly are the two least favorable, that said though, anyone can win the conference.

It could get ugly having to play in Philly.