2013 NFC North/NFL Thread

[wadesworld]

To further prove this point, check out Nelson's stats with the clown car of Wallace/Tolzien/Flynn. 1 TD. 1 game over 100 yds.

Go check out Marshall/Jeffrey stats with McCown.

The defense rests.

So you're saying that McCown is on an equal playing field with Wallace and Tolzien?  Flynn I can give you.  But McCown compared to Wallace and Tolzien?!  C'mon, man.  You know football better than that.  That rests nothing.

[GGGG]

Thomas and Dekker are also a better 1-2 combo than Marshall and Jeffreys.

That is a dumb statement.  Very dumb.

[brandx]

They have no one to blame but themselves.  Dropping a sure interception.  Letting Cobb get behind them for the TD.  Not emphasizing the run enough....24 rushes to Green Bay's 34 and massive time of possession advantage for Green Bay.  You run the ball not just to gain yardage, but to control clock, keep your awful defense off the field and wear the other guy out. 

I thought GB was playing the cowboys again.

It was Trestmann's arrogance just as much as the drops by Marshall and Jeffry that lost this game. He's just so much smarter than stooping to run the ball against a team that cannot stop the run.

[jsglow]

I've been listening to The Score tonight. The whining is entertaining

Love listening to Doug and OB when the Pack gets a win over the Bears.  'Dougie, you have to know the goddamn defense when you break the huddle on 4th down.'

[Dish]

So you're saying that McCown is on an equal playing field with Wallace and Tolzien?  Flynn I can give you.  But McCown compared to Wallace and Tolzien?!  C'mon, man.  You know football better than that.  That rests nothing.

Dude, what are you talking about? What is so difficult to comprehend here. You've made a couple ridiculous comments that have been blown to pieces.

I'll talk slow here...

Marshall and Jeffrey are better at receiving the football than Jordy Nelson. If McCown, Cutler, Rodgers, Wallace, Tolzien, my Grandma, my three year old twins are QB'ing, it does not matter who is throwing.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I thought GB was playing the cowboys again.

It was Trestmann's arrogance just as much as the drops by Marshall and Jeffry that lost this game. He's just so much smarter than stooping to run the ball against a team that cannot stop the run.

Yup, everyone is so pass happy because of the rules and the big plays.  It's not just the number of plays, its when you do them.  If you look at the Bears, they ran 24 times and passed 24 times so people will say there is balance.  OK.  Problem is that it a lot of it comes down to situations and when you run it and when you don't.

Cowboys tonight...3rd and 2...they pass.  Incomplete.  Second time they get 3rd and 2...they pass.  Incomplete.  Teams just don't value time of possession as much as they used to and moving the chains. 

65% of the time a pass play has a positive outcome.  88% of the time a running play does.  By no means does that mean you don't throw it, you do and you do often, but you do it in balance and situational play calling.  Control the ball, move the chains, protect your terrible defense. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

You are hilarious. Your strategy was failing. Doing the opposite worked. It's how they won the game. NOBODY who has even a passing knowledge of football thinks the Packers go for 172 yards those final two drives running it down the Bear's throats. It wasn't happening and it wasn't going to happen.

YOU were the one who claims to be good. YOU were the one who said he could predict the future. Run, run, run. (Both teams). Forget the pass and you'll win. Well, the Bears said nuts to that, threw it well and got an 8 point lead. Then the Pack did the same, came back and won by throwing the ball.

Thus, you were wrong not once, but twice. LOL

Strategy worked fine, that's why they ran it as much as they did....much more than the Bears, despite trailing a good chunk of the second half.  I don't know what is so hard for you to process, but you can't decide what the outcome of a play is going to be if that play isn't run.  It would be like you saying if Wilson takes the shot rather than Gardner you just KNOW the Wilson shot would go in.  You don't, you simply don't but pretend all you want to be able to decipher what would have happened on plays that never existed...sounds like pretend land because that's what it is.

[Blackhat]

[wadesworld]

Dude, what are you talking about? What is so difficult to comprehend here. You've made a couple ridiculous comments that have been blown to pieces.

I'll talk slow here...

Marshall and Jeffrey are better at receiving the football than Jordy Nelson. If McCown, Cutler, Rodgers, Wallace, Tolzien, my Grandma, my three year old twins are QB'ing, it does not matter who is throwing.

What am I talking about?  There's a quote there for you, coming from yourself.

I'll talk slow here...

You said that you can conclude that Jeffrey and Marshall are better wide receivers than Jordy Nelson because they put up better numbers with Josh McCown behind center vs. what Nelson put up with Tolzien/Wallace/Flynn behind center.  You wrote that clear as day.  There's even a quote.  Not sure why you're confused and asking what I'm talking about.  

What I am talking about is to say that that the numbers Marshall and Jeffrey put up with (a better than Jay Cutler) Josh McCown behind center for 6 weeks compared to what Nelson put up with 1 week of Wallace, 3 weeks of Tolzien, and 3 weeks of Flynn is absolutely absurd.  You know too much about football to make such a dumb statement.  You're the one who brought up who is throwing them the ball, not me.  Good luck to your 3 year old twins.

[brandx]

Dude, what are you talking about? What is so difficult to comprehend here. You've made a couple ridiculous comments that have been blown to pieces.

I'll talk slow here...

Marshall and Jeffrey are better at receiving the football than Jordy Nelson. If McCown, Cutler, Rodgers, Wallace, Tolzien, my Grandma, my three year old twins are QB'ing, it does not matter who is throwing.

No - I would rate Marshall ahead of Nelson - but Jeffry? C'mon. You're a smart football guy. I think you know better.

[Dish]

What am I talking about?  There's a quote there for you, coming from yourself.

I'll talk slow here...

You said that you can conclude that Jeffrey and Marshall are better wide receivers than Jordy Nelson because they put up better numbers with Josh McCown behind center vs. what Nelson put up with Tolzien/Wallace/Flynn behind center.  You wrote that clear as day.  There's even a quote.  Not sure why you're confused and asking what I'm talking about.  

What I am talking about is to say that that the numbers Marshall and Jeffrey put up with (a better than Jay Cutler) Josh McCown behind center for 6 weeks compared to what Nelson put up with 1 week of Wallace, 3 weeks of Tolzien, and 3 weeks of Flynn is absolutely absurd.  You know too much about football to make such a dumb statement.  You're the one who brought up who is throwing them the ball, not me.  Good luck to your 3 year old twins.

My head hurts. Also my kids are great, thanks.

If Jordy Nelson is so good, as YOU stated...I'll repeat, as YOU stated, shouldn't he put up big numbers no matter who is at QB? Dude, you keep making yourself look like a fool, seriously, why don't you take a breather champ.

[Dish]

No - I would rate Marshall ahead of Nelson - but Jeffry? C'mon. You're a smart football guy. I think you know better.

100% yes. That's not a knock on Nelson either.

Salary, age, potential all matter.

[wadesworld]

My head hurts. Also my kids are great, thanks.

If Jordy Nelson is so good, as YOU stated...I'll repeat, as YOU stated, shouldn't he put up big numbers no matter who is at QB? Dude, you keep making yourself look like a fool, seriously, why don't you take a breather champ.

With Scott Tolzien and Seneca Wallace?  Haha OK.

[Lennys Tap]

Strategy worked fine, that's why they ran it as much as they did....much more than the Bears, despite trailing a good chunk of the second half.  I don't know what is so hard for you to process, but you can't decide what the outcome of a play is going to be if that play isn't run.  It would be like you saying if Wilson takes the shot rather than Gardner you just KNOW the Wilson shot would go in.  You don't, you simply don't but pretend all you want to be able to decipher what would have happened on plays that never existed...sounds like pretend land because that's what it is.

Until they had to pass (last 4 plays of the game when I assume even you and Woody Hayes would have put it in the air) the Bears ran 44 plays - 24 runs (55%) and 20 passes (45%) The Packers ran 73 plays - 34 runs (47%) and 39 passes (53%). So the Packers passed a much higher % of the time than the Bears did.

As for your convoluted basketball comparison, it's nonsensical. Here's a better example. Say MU is playing against a team with a very poor 3 point shooting defense. Before the game you say, "Shoot the 3, shoot the 3, shoot the 3. They can't stop it. We're down 8 with 10 minutes left. On our last 20 possessions we try 8 threes and miss them all but drive the lane 12 times, make 10 baskets and win at the buzzer. I would say thank God we started taking it to the basket. You would say, we still might have won if we had launched 3s on all 20 possessions. Possible. Anything (almost) is possible. But highly unlikely and very stupid strategy.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You talkin' 'bout gay rumors?

If you remember, this Summer there was supposed to be a MAJOR announcement of a player coming out, along with several others.  The NFL was gearing up for it....four in total according to Brandon Ayanbadejo of the Ravens.  http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/4/5/4186668/gay-nfl-players-announcment-brendon-ayanbadejo

At the last minute, it fell through and Aaron was supposedly one of the four.  That's what is coming out now...again, who knows if true but this is what has been reported. 

http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/84464268.html

[wadesworld]

My head hurts. Also my kids are great, thanks.

If Jordy Nelson is so good, as YOU stated...I'll repeat, as YOU stated, shouldn't he put up big numbers no matter who is at QB? Dude, you keep making yourself look like a fool, seriously, why don't you take a breather champ.

If you think that Nelson should be putting up equal or better numbers with Tolzien under center as Marshall did with McCown, and you think Jeffery and Marshall are better wideouts than Nelson, then explain to me how Nelson had more receptions and more receiving yards alone today than Marshall and Jeffery had combined.  That's weird...

I can tell you 1 thing, Nelson would not have dropped that 3rd and 17 ball that Jeffery did in the 4th quarter, and he would not have dropped the 2nd last pass of the game that Marshall did.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

If you remember, this Summer there was supposed to be a MAJOR announcement of a player coming out, along with several others.  The NFL was gearing up for it....four in total according to Brandon Ayanbadejo of the Ravens.  http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/4/5/4186668/gay-nfl-players-announcment-brendon-ayanbadejo

At the last minute, it fell through and Aaron was supposedly one of the four.  That's what is coming out now...again, who knows if true but this is what has been reported. 

http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/84464268.html

I'd rather be straight and lose than be gay and win.

Apologies to white men can't jump.

[Dish]

If you think that Nelson should be putting up equal or better numbers with Tolzien under center as Marshall did with McCown, and you think Jeffery and Marshall are better wideouts than Nelson, then explain to me how Nelson had more receptions and more receiving yards alone today than Marshall and Jeffery had combined.  That's weird...

I can tell you 1 thing, Nelson would not have dropped that 3rd and 17 ball that Jeffery did in the 4th quarter, and he would not have dropped the 2nd last pass of the game that Marshall did.

Can I send you a mirror so you can ask yourself these questions?

I'm not sure. You said Nelson/Cobb are the best. By virtue of that, especially without Cobb, Nelson (since he is the best) should put up huge numbers. As you stated, with limited other WR/TE options, Wallace and Tolzien should be throwing to Nelson every time. The Pack picked those guys as their back up QB's, not me. He didn't put up numbers with backup QB's. Marshall/Jeffrey did.

Since today was apparently the only game that ever mattered, would Nelson have made that TD catch Marshall made? No.

[MerrittsMustache]

If you think that Nelson should be putting up equal or better numbers with Tolzien under center as Marshall did with McCown, and you think Jeffery and Marshall are better wideouts than Nelson, then explain to me how Nelson had more receptions and more receiving yards alone today than Marshall and Jeffery had combined.  That's weird...

I can tell you 1 thing, Nelson would not have dropped that 3rd and 17 ball that Jeffery did in the 4th quarter, and he would not have dropped the 2nd last pass of the game that Marshall did.

You mean the leaping catch over a defender? You're calling that a drop and you think Jordy Nelson would have made that catch? You continue to be a joke when it comes to the Packers. Also, as a matter of fact, much like Marshall, Nelson DID drop a pass that was low and behind him on the 3rd down play right before the Cobb TD.

Gotta hand it to the Packers. They did what they needed to do to win, but it's tough to see this one as anything other than the Bears gave one away. James Anderson not picking up (or at least falling on) the football, Conte letting an INT go through his arms, the secondary blowing the coverage on the biggest play of the season. Playoff teams don't do those things and that's why the Bears are going home.

[wadesworld]

Can I send you a mirror so you can ask yourself these questions?

I'm not sure. You said Nelson/Cobb are the best. By virtue of that, especially without Cobb, Nelson (since he is the best) should put up huge numbers. As you stated, with limited other WR/TE options, Wallace and Tolzien should be throwing to Nelson every time. The Pack picked those guys as their back up QB's, not me. He didn't put up numbers with backup QB's. Marshall/Jeffrey did.

Since today was apparently the only game that ever mattered, would Nelson have made that TD catch Marshall made? No.

So Marshall made a nice catch?  Congratulations to him.  It's much like Jay Cutler.  Can Marshall make a play here or there that Jordy can't?  Sure.  I'll give you that.  But if it's 3rd and 7 and I need one guy to make a play for me, do I want Marshall or Jordy on my team?  Jordy, without a question.  That's why he had 167 receiving yards today.

[wadesworld]

You mean the leaping catch over a defender? You're calling that a drop and you think Jordy Nelson would have made that catch? You continue to be a joke when it comes to the Packers. Also, as a matter of fact, much like Marshall, Nelson DID drop a pass that was low and behind him on the 3rd down play right before the Cobb TD.

Gotta hand it to the Packers. They did what they needed to do to win, but it's tough to see this one as anything other than the Bears gave one away. James Anderson not picking up (or at least falling on) the football, Conte letting an INT go through his arms, the secondary blowing the coverage on the biggest play of the season. Playoff teams don't do those things and that's wy the Bears are going home.

I absolutely am calling that a drop.  The defender touched neither Jeffery nor the football.  Absolutely have to make that catch.  That is nothing but a drop.  Great throw by Cutler.

[MerrittsMustache]

So Marshall made a nice catch?  Congratulations to him.  It's much like Jay Cutler.  Can Marshall make a play here or there that Jordy can't?  Sure.  I'll give you that.  But if it's 3rd and 7 and I need one guy to make a play for me, do I want Marshall or Jordy on my team?  Jordy, without a question.  That's why he had 167 receiving yards today.

I guess since Nelson's drop was on 3rd and 8, you're giving him a pass?

[wadesworld]

Thought this was pretty funny.

[wadesworld]

I guess since Nelson's drop was on 3rd and 8, you're giving him a pass?

Definitely.  Jordy's drop led to the play that won the game.  Jeffery's and Marshall's contributed to the Bear's loss 

[wadesworld]

On an unrelated note, how do the Browns fire their head coach after 1 season, a season in which they traded away their 1 big name (who is proving to not be all that great of an NFL running back) and had absolutely no talent on the roster?  I'd be more worried about the GM...