MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: CreightonWarrior on November 21, 2019, 11:09:59 AM
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Yasmani Grandal to the White Sox on a 4 year deal.
Massive hit to the Brewers.
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I'm glad the Sox didn't eff around this winter like they did last year. Yes, Grandal is expensive, but they have been sitting on piles and piles and piles of cash for years. They targeted Grandal early, and this year they were aggressive and not passive. If nothing else, I'm much happier than last offseason.
I've heard they've been enamored with Castellanos for months, I think I mentioned that here previously.
They won't break the bank for Cole, I'm sure the same applies to Strasburg, but I expect them to make some move for a pitcher (anything more than 3 years for Wheeler scares me).
Overall, good move today.
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Massive hit to the Brewers.
It was widely expected that the Brewers were not going to resign Grandal, so not really a "massive hit." Four year deal only really makes sense in the AL where he can DH. Brewers will use the money saved elsewhere.
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I enjoyed Yas on the Brewers last year. It's probably unreasonable to expect anything other than a sharp dropoff in offensive production at the 2. Hopefully they can find a diamond in the rough that plays good defense and is replacement level at the plate.
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Grandal's best chance for a 4-year deal was probably in the AL< where he can DH most (all?) of years 3 and 4.
The Sox could use a LH bat. Seems like a nice pick-up.
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It was widely expected that the Brewers were not going to resign Grandal, so not really a "massive hit." Four year deal only really makes sense in the AL where he can DH. Brewers will use the money saved elsewhere.
The massive hit is a 5 WAR player in a position that averages below 2.5 WAR.
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Good for the Sox. There's no way the Crew could give him 4 years. Anyone expecting Yaz to be anything more than a rental for the Crew was setting themselves up for disappointment. They have young catchers in the minors. Time for them to step up.
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I'm glad the Sox didn't eff around this winter like they did last year. Yes, Grandal is expensive, but they have been sitting on piles and piles and piles of cash for years. They targeted Grandal early, and this year they were aggressive and not passive. If nothing else, I'm much happier than last offseason.
I've heard they've been enamored with Castellanos for months, I think I mentioned that here previously.
They won't break the bank for Cole, I'm sure the same applies to Strasburg, but I expect them to make some move for a pitcher (anything more than 3 years for Wheeler scares me).
Overall, good move today.
Grandal, Castellanos (or maybe Kole Calhoun if they think they need another left handed bat) and 2 starters (Wheeler, Keuchel?) was my off season wish list. How about you (and other Sox fans - Pakuni, Buck, etc.)?
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Nice start for ther ChiSox, but should only be the start. Need to go get frontline starter (I'll continue to pound the table for Dallas Keuchel), a DH and a right fielder. Adding Grandal makes a guy like Calhoun or Castellanos acceptable in right, though I'd like to see them swing for the fences first and see if they can get Betts without giving up Madrigal or Vaughn in return (or Robert and Kopech, obviously).
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Nice start for ther ChiSox, but should only be the start. Need to go get frontline starter (I'll continue to pound the table for Dallas Keuchel), a DH and a right fielder. Adding Grandal makes a guy like Calhoun or Castellanos acceptable in right, though I'd like to see them swing for the fences first and see if they can get Betts without giving up Madrigal or Vaughn in return (or Robert and Kopech, obviously).
I hate Calhoun, if they sign him, that'll be a big miss in my opinion.
I keep trying to piece a Betts trade together, and it's tough. One year of Betts obviously worries me, flip side is the price is lower without the long term commitment. I don't know if a Dane Dunning/Vaughn/something else package is good enough? Honestly asking, have no idea for a Betts rental.
In terms of their preference, outside Betts, I think your Sox starting RF next year is from Castellanos, Puig, Haniger.
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I hate Calhoun, if they sign him, that'll be a big miss in my opinion.
I keep trying to piece a Betts trade together, and it's tough. One year of Betts obviously worries me, flip side is the price is lower without the long term commitment. I don't know if a Dane Dunning/Vaughn/something else package is good enough? Honestly asking, have no idea for a Betts rental.
In terms of their preference, outside Betts, I think your Sox starting RF next year is from Castellanos, Puig, Haniger.
Agree the Puig is a real possibility, but I'd hate that more than Calhoun. I get that Calhoun has his flaws (starting with spelling Cole with a 'K'), but the one thing I like about his is that he's an above average right fielder, which would be a big help given the guy in the other corner. Puig/Castellanos in right and Eloy in left makes for a bad defensive outfield.
Haniger? Hmm. He was not good last year. Maybe at a bargain, but I wouldn't give up any potentially useful pieces for him.
Because of Boston's salary crunch and Betts impending free agency, I think he could be had on the cheap (relatively speaking), but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.
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Agree the Puig is a real possibility, but I'd hate that more than Calhoun. I get that Calhoun has his flaws (starting with spelling Cole with a 'K'), but the one thing I like about his is that he's an above average right fielder, which would be a big help given the guy in the other corner. Puig/Castellanos in right and Eloy in left makes for a bad defensive outfield.
Haniger? Hmm. He was not good last year. Maybe at a bargain, but I wouldn't give up any potentially useful pieces for him.
Because of Boston's salary crunch and Betts impending free agency, I think he could be had on the cheap (relatively speaking), but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.
I’ve heard for a while they like Haniger, and I think they may try to buy low on him. Ideally, they’d like to address pitching first and then sign a RF. I’m not advocating Puig, I could see them doing that move though, feels very Sox like.
I have the same concerns, they defensively may be a mess next season, especially in the outfield.
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The massive hit is a 5 WAR player in a position that averages below 2.5 WAR.
I guess my point was that no one expected the Brewers to resign Grandal, so the "massive hit" was already in the works the minute they signed him last year..no surprise. Yes, he will be tough to replace, but he was never coming back.
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I'm glad the Sox didn't eff around this winter like they did last year. Yes, Grandal is expensive, but they have been sitting on piles and piles and piles of cash for years. They targeted Grandal early, and this year they were aggressive and not passive. If nothing else, I'm much happier than last offseason.
I've heard they've been enamored with Castellanos for months, I think I mentioned that here previously.
They won't break the bank for Cole, I'm sure the same applies to Strasburg, but I expect them to make some move for a pitcher (anything more than 3 years for Wheeler scares me).
Overall, good move today.
Whats your username on Soxtalk, Dish?
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I hate Calhoun, if they sign him, that'll be a big miss in my opinion.
I keep trying to piece a Betts trade together, and it's tough. One year of Betts obviously worries me, flip side is the price is lower without the long term commitment. I don't know if a Dane Dunning/Vaughn/something else package is good enough? Honestly asking, have no idea for a Betts rental.
In terms of their preference, outside Betts, I think your Sox starting RF next year is from Castellanos, Puig, Haniger.
Kole is a very streaky hitter with some pop, but last few years avg suffered. Plus arm and defender....makes some defensive gems that are under appreciated
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Kole is a very streaky hitter with some pop, but last few years avg suffered. Plus arm and defender....makes some defensive gems that are under appreciated
AKA the same things that are happening to just about every hitter in baseball.
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I guess my point was that no one expected the Brewers to resign Grandal, so the "massive hit" was already in the works the minute they signed him last year..no surprise. Yes, he will be tough to replace, but he was never coming back.
Fair, agree
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Nice start for ther ChiSox, but should only be the start. Need to go get frontline starter (I'll continue to pound the table for Dallas Keuchel), a DH and a right fielder. Adding Grandal makes a guy like Calhoun or Castellanos acceptable in right, though I'd like to see them swing for the fences first and see if they can get Betts without giving up Madrigal or Vaughn in return (or Robert and Kopech, obviously).
Would you rather the Sox spend on TWO of the 2nd tier starters like Wheeler, Keuchel instead of just one + a DH and OF?
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I’ve heard for a while they like Haniger, and I think they may try to buy low on him. Ideally, they’d like to address pitching first and then sign a RF. I’m not advocating Puig, I could see them doing that move though, feels very Sox like.
I have the same concerns, they defensively may be a mess next season, especially in the outfield.
Betts is a dream but I don't think we're at the point where we trade real prospects for a one year rental.
My concern with Haniger is that he was playing poorly last year even before he was hurt. Loved the guy pre 2019, though. Maybe buying low works.
Castellanos has a good bat and is getting better (though still below average) in the field.
Puig intrigues me. Still has untapped potential - big bat, big arm - but obviously comes with baggage.
Calhoun is the best fielder (other than Betts) and he's a lefty which brings balance.
Some mention Ozuna but the last time I saw him he couldn't throw a ball from medium deep left field to second base.
Corey Dickerson is also a left handed bat I kind of like. Missed most of last year with an injury but crushed the ball when he came back late in the year. Don't know if he plays any D.
Pitching? Cole and Strasburg are probably out of our price range. Ryu has been injured an awful lot. Wheeler (5 at 20m per?) may also be a stretch. Keuchel probably is the biggest bargain in tier 1 or 2.
DH? Sox usually spread DH at bats around and get very little. Edwin Encarnacion on a 1 year contract?
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I think the Grandal signing is a great one, while he isn't a perfect player, he is a very good one, and dang near a perfect fit for what the Sox needed. A switch hitter (thought the LHH part is important to the Sox), high OBP , good power player. The fact that he can catch is icing on the cake. I would guess he gets a lot of ABs at C, DH and 1B. Add in that he is another Cuban? Couldn't be a better fit. He has also been training with Zack Collins since they were teenagers, which is kind of cool, but I think this may be the writing on the wall for Collins.
As others have mentioned, this isn't enough though. They need pitching. I would feel really good about 2 SPs, though one will do. Sounds like Wheeler is a high priority (though he seems to be for many teams). I don't think there is any way the Sox play for Cole or Strasburg. Wheeler is next on the list in terms of stuff, but is risky, and has a tough injury history. Definitely would be an impact signing though. Seems like he could get expensive too. I agree with you Pakuni, on Keuchel, I think he fits pretty well and would be a solid addition to the rotation.
RF is certainly problematic. I don't think that Betts makes any sense at all. It wouldn't be worth trading any of the top guys for a year of him, especially since you're still paying 28 mil for him. And beyond the elite talents, the depth guys in the Sox system were either injured or underwhelming last season. I can't see how it works at all. Haniger had a bad year last year, but I still don't see the Mariners selling low on him, which leads to the same problem. For all the high level talent in the Sox system (Robert, Madrigal, Vaughn, Kopech, Cease) they aren't trading any of those guys, and their "B" level guys probably don't hold much value to other teams.
I think Calhoun is the answer. (Dish, I'm curious as to why you hate him?) He is a decent hitter, with ok discipline, and ok power and plays ok defense. Hits from the left side. They don't necessarily need a star in RF. They need a guy that can hold his own and not be a black hole. Calhoun, and maybe Cheeks can confirm, but in my memory is super streaky, and when he's on, he can carry you. For the Sox, they are looking for a guy to hit, what 6th or 7th? It doesn't need to be a star. A 20 HR, 30 2B guy with a .325 OBP would certainly do the trick. I think, if it isn't Calhoun, it is probably Leury. I don't know what other realistic options are. I don't like Castellanos, because while he can certainly hit, I'd like someone that is a bit more of a defender, and I think he will be overpaid. Same with Ozuna. Maybe there is someone else available in trade, Polanco or Marte perhaps would be there, but I just don't see a ton of value in Sox prospects that are trade-able right now. Guys like Adolfo, Rutherford, Dunning, Hansen, Burdi and Basabe all hurt their trade value last season.
** Disclaimer on RF*** I know there are a couple of pretty high level players coming out of Japan this year that were posted that are RF type players. I don't really know enough to say anything about them though, other than I am aware that they are out there. Does anyone know if NPB has an MLB At Bat style App? That's totally something I could get into.
Honestly, I think their lineup is ok right now. I am more concerned about the pitching. So to answer Jockey's question, I would much rather sign Wheeler and Keuchel than add a RF and DH. I think you could pass with rotating Abreu, Grandal, McCann, and Collins (Mercedes etc) through 1B, C and DH (at least leading up to the trade deadline). I also think you could get by with Leury in RF. Obviously some of this depends on Robert and Madrigal coming up and contributing, which as rookies, isn't a sure thing (though as a Sox fan and baseball fan, I am drooling waiting for Luis Robert. Eloy was a monster in the minors, and Robert out did him pretty handily. The kid slugged over .600 on the season. Seems like a crazy amount of talent.).
I don't expect them to sign a big name to DH, as again, I think a lot of those ABs will go to Grandal and Abreu, and there aren't any huge DH names out there. EE perhaps, but I'm not sure he is a great fit.
All in all, great start to the off season for the Sox. Rick and Kenny still have work to do, don't stop now boys.
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I completely forgot about Puig. Haha. I kind of like it. Just build that Cuban National team! Can we trade for Cespedes as well? -- Wait, is he still a thing?
Now that i joked about it, watch the Sox trade for Cespedes.
Ok another modification, just googled him, he's taking swings! I'm officially all in on Cespedes, provided you trade nothing for him and the Mets pay for like 25 of his contract. A 5 Cubano lineup?????? Do it for Minnie!
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I completely forgot about Puig. Haha. I kind of like it. Just build that Cuban National team! Can we trade for Cespedes as well? -- Wait, is he still a thing?
Now that i joked about it, watch the Sox trade for Cespedes.
Ok another modification, just googled him, he's taking swings! I'm officially all in on Cespedes, provided you trade nothing for him and the Mets pay for like 25 of his contract. A 5 Cubano lineup?????? Do it for Minnie!
Minnie was my favorite player as a kid growing up.
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By the way, I love the Reds getting Jose De Leon for basically nothing. Could be a nice arm for them.
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Fair, agree
Fan favorite here in Orange County, but Red was just too expensive for his output.
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Would you rather the Sox spend on TWO of the 2nd tier starters like Wheeler, Keuchel instead of just one + a DH and OF?
I think they need one second-tier guy, and then perhaps bring back Ivan Nova to push Lopez for the 5th spot. I say that expecting Kopech to come back healthy and Cease to improve upon last year, both of which seem reasonable. So that means Gio-Keuchel-Kopech-Cease as the top four with Looez, Nova and eventually Rodon rounding things out.
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I think they need one second-tier guy, and then perhaps bring back Ivan Nova to push Lopez for the 5th spot. I say that expecting Kopech to come back healthy and Cease to improve upon last year, both of which seem reasonable. So that means Gio-Keuchel-Kopech-Cease as the top four with Looez, Nova and eventually Rodon rounding things out.
I think Rodon maybe best suited for the bullpen. His stuff is unquestionable, but he just can't throw the innings. Maybe being a reliever would work better for him. I certainly wouldn't count on him in the rotation at all.
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I'm happy to see some positive Sox talk on here, I know Sox fans are the minority here and in Chicago, so I for one enjoy talking about some good Sox news for once. I talked to Sox people a lot in September, and the name I kept hearing was Castellanos, and that they made some inquiries with the Tigers in July about him.
I don't think Calhoun sucks or anything, he certainly benefited last year like everyone else from the ball being juiced. I think at 32, he has the least amount of upside. He's just meh to me.
The guy I'm still enamored with is Adolfo. I stood next to him/Robert/Jimenez last year at SoxFest, and Adolfo is a giant, the guy is a monster physically. He's had terrible injury history, but if he can stay healthy, I think he can mash.
Buck is right though, the Sox farm system is heavy at the top, without much in the middle. Guys like Beard and Dahlquist might be those middle guys by the end of next season. I'd obviously would love Betts, but it might make more sense for them to use whatever assets they have to go after Jon Gray in the trade market.
A trade with the Red Sox I could see happening...Eovaldi, Benintendi, Cash to Chicago for Reynaldo Lopez/minor league pitcher back to Boston. White Sox love Benintendi, and they'd figure out an outfield mix.
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I'm happy to see some positive Sox talk on here, I know Sox fans are the minority here and in Chicago, so I for one enjoy talking about some good Sox news for once. I talked to Sox people a lot in September, and the name I kept hearing was Castellanos, and that they made some inquiries with the Tigers in July about him.
I don't think Calhoun sucks or anything, he certainly benefited last year like everyone else from the ball being juiced. I think at 32, he has the least amount of upside. He's just meh to me.
The guy I'm still enamored with is Adolfo. I stood next to him/Robert/Jimenez last year at SoxFest, and Adolfo is a giant, the guy is a monster physically. He's had terrible injury history, but if he can stay healthy, I think he can mash.
Buck is right though, the Sox farm system is heavy at the top, without much in the middle. Guys like Beard and Dahlquist might be those middle guys by the end of next season. I'd obviously would love Betts, but it might make more sense for them to use whatever assets they have to go after Jon Gray in the trade market.
A trade with the Red Sox I could see happening...Eovaldi, Benintendi, Cash to Chicago for Reynaldo Lopez/minor league pitcher back to Boston. White Sox love Benintendi, and they'd figure out an outfield mix.
I think this is why someone like Calhoun makes a lot of sense. The Sox still have quite a few intriguing options for OFers in the system, even if they have lost their luster a little bit. Adolfo leads the way, but Rutherford, Walker, Gonzalez and Basabe could all fill RF in the not too distant future. Signing a guy that isn't a great fit (Castellanos/Ozuna) that could clog the position for a few years isn't ideal to me. I'd think Calhoun would be available on a 1 year deal.
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I think Rodon maybe best suited for the bullpen. His stuff is unquestionable, but he just can't throw the innings. Maybe being a reliever would work better for him. I certainly wouldn't count on him in the rotation at all.
I know I'm likely being overly optimistic with Rodon, but I do think they give him another chance as a starter.
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I think they need one second-tier guy, and then perhaps bring back Ivan Nova to push Lopez for the 5th spot. I say that expecting Kopech to come back healthy and Cease to improve upon last year, both of which seem reasonable. So that means Gio-Keuchel-Kopech-Cease as the top four with Looez, Nova and eventually Rodon rounding things out.
I see the same dangers as I saw last winter with the Brewers who were gonna have Woodruff, Peralta, and Burnes in the rotation. They got one out of three.
Counting on all three of Gio, Kopech, and Cease is a dangerous proposition. Gio is probably as good a candidate for regression as anybody, and while I think Kopech and Cease will eventually be solid mid-rotation guys or better, counting on them next year could be a problem. That was why I suggested two of the second tier guys - Wheeler & Keuchel or possibly even Ryu on an incentive heavy contract. They can afford it.
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A trade with the Red Sox I could see happening...Eovaldi, Benintendi, Cash to Chicago for Reynaldo Lopez/minor league pitcher back to Boston. White Sox love Benintendi, and they'd figure out an outfield mix.
I think you are way overrating Lopez.
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I think you are way overrating Lopez.
The price to get Benintendi isn’t Lopez, it’s taking on Eovaldi’s contract. Boston is going to have to dump a good player with either Eovaldi or Price.
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The price to get Benintendi isn’t Lopez, it’s taking on Eovaldi’s contract. Boston is going to have to dump a good player with either Eovaldi or Price.
Eovaldi became a complete albatross in 3 months.
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I see the same dangers as I saw last winter with the Brewers who were gonna have Woodruff, Peralta, and Burnes in the rotation. They got one out of three.
Counting on all three of Gio, Kopech, and Cease is a dangerous proposition. Gio is probably as good a candidate for regression as anybody, and while I think Kopech and Cease will eventually be solid mid-rotation guys or better, counting on them next year could be a problem. That was why I suggested two of the second tier guys - Wheeler & Keuchel or possibly even Ryu on an incentive heavy contract. They can afford it.
I'm not sure what you mean by "counting on" in regards to Kopech and Cease, but barring injury or disaster, both will be in the rotation next year. As much as they say they're ready to compete in 2020, the team is not going to stall either of those guys' development by sending them back to AAA.
As for Gio, I'm not worried about significant regression from him. He changed so much about his game from 2018 to 2019, that I don't think regression analysis really applies. A similar performance to 2019 would not be terribly surprising.
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Two whole pages of Sox discussions! Way to go boys. I sincerely hope they have a damn solid year.
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Staying on topic... White Sox sign Jose Abreu for 3 years/$50 million.
Under normal circumstances I wouldn't be a big fan of that third year, but in Jose's case it's just reward.
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Staying on topic... White Sox sign Jose Abreu for 3 years/$50 million.
Under normal circumstances I wouldn't be a big fan of that third year, but in Jose's case it's just reward.
This extension makes zero sense. Why not at most give him 2 years? Andrew Vaughn isn’t playing anywhere but first. I like Abreu, but hate this deal.
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Staying on topic... White Sox sign Jose Abreu for 3 years/$50 million.
Under normal circumstances I wouldn't be a big fan of that third year, but in Jose's case it's just reward.
Totally - Reinsdorf envisions the third year being Abreu's Ryan Zimmerman victory lap while the Sox play for the pennant.
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This extension makes zero sense. Why not at most give him 2 years? Andrew Vaughn isn’t playing anywhere but first. I like Abreu, but hate this deal.
None of that is wrong, and with that said, this is very predictable.
Someone commented in the other thread (probably one of the locked ones???) about loyalty in sports in regards to a Pujols post, Jerry Reisndorf is the loyalty in sports.
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This extension makes zero sense. Why not at most give him 2 years? Andrew Vaughn isn’t playing anywhere but first. I like Abreu, but hate this deal.
It's fine.
It's a huge leap of faith to assume Andrew Vaughn is the starting first baseman for what ought to be a contending team in 2021, given that he has yet to take a swing above A ball. A Madrigal/Robert-like ascension through the system is hardly assured.
And when Vaughn is ready - and he ought to be by 2022, for sure - Abreu is your DH.
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This extension makes zero sense. Why not at most give him 2 years? Andrew Vaughn isn’t playing anywhere but first. I like Abreu, but hate this deal.
Especially in the context of signing Grandal who will log time at 1B and DH.
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It's fine.
It's a huge leap of faith to assume Andrew Vaughn is the starting first baseman for what ought to be a contending team in 2021, given that he has yet to take a swing above A ball. A Madrigal/Robert-like ascension through the system is hardly assured.
And when Vaughn is ready - and he ought to be by 2022, for sure - Abreu is your DH.
Who are the Sox bidding against to pay Abreu in his mid 30’s, $18 mil in 2022? If they wanted to go two years, club option, I can semi see that. But this is foolish money to throw around for what will be a declining 1B/DH. There’s zero chance in the open market Abreu is getting that future cash.
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The Sox are clearly a better team with Abreu in the lineup this year. And barring a catastrophic collapse, next year as well.
The third year is debatable, but I fully see that as a loyalty/mentor bonus for a very well respected and productive member of the team. This will impact Vaughn/Collins, but in 3 years. They still haven't earned the right to be considered for playing time yet. I'm completely fine with it. A bit of an overpay perhaps, but 4 million is deferred as well.
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Who are the Sox bidding against to pay Abreu in his mid 30’s, $18 mil in 2022? If they wanted to go two years, club option, I can semi see that. But this is foolish money to throw around for what will be a declining 1B/DH. There’s zero chance in the open market Abreu is getting that future cash.
So can we now say your issue is with 2022 and not the entire deal?
As I already said, I don't necessarily love the third year either, but I understand them wanting to reward Jose's loyalty to the franchise, willingness to play mentor through a few lean years and the fact he's been woefully underpaid throughout his tenure with the team.
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So can we now say your issue is with 2022 and not the entire deal?
As I already said, I don't necessarily love the third year either, but I understand them wanting to reward Jose's loyalty to the franchise, willingness to play mentor through a few lean years and the fact he's been woefully underpaid throughout his tenure with the team.
Yeah, I guess that's fair to say.
I like Jose, he's fantastic in the community, and it'd be well deserved to see him be in a playoff game for the Sox.
My issue is for a team that has a hard internal spending limit, when 2022 comes around and they should be contending, the $18 mil in 2022 seems rough. I'd have thought if they wanted Abreu for three years, front load the contract. I don't want to be on this board in July 2022 with the Sox half game up on the Indians, and they can't go out and trade for a middle reliever because they're not going to spend any more cash, when they could have had Abreu back for $9-$11 million in 2022, instead of $18 million.
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So can we now say your issue is with 2022 and not the entire deal?
As I already said, I don't necessarily love the third year either, but I understand them wanting to reward Jose's loyalty to the franchise, willingness to play mentor through a few lean years and the fact he's been woefully underpaid throughout his tenure with the team.
I'm totally OK with an overpay to Jose but I don't want to hear "We can't afford X or Y because we paid Jose".
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I'm totally OK with an overpay to Jose but I don't want to hear "We can't afford X or Y because we paid Jose".
Lenny, did you grow up in Chicago? Just wondering why you’re a White Sox fan.
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Two whole pages of Sox discussions! Way to go boys. I sincerely hope they have a damn solid year.
Crazy isn't it. Who knew 45% of all White Dox fans posted on MU Scoop Superbar. 😬
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I have mixed emotions about Grandal. A greater catcher makes a huge difference on a pitching staff and can be the difference between a good and great team. Peoples Exhibit 1 would people like Yadi Molina down in St. Louis.
By the same token, the Sox just spent a lot of money on a 31-year-old catcher. Sabermetrics tells us 32-years of age is the break point in value between a good and mediocre value to a baseball team. And unlike the NFL, these are real contracts!
Yeah, all you who know me as a Cardinal fan will note that the Cardinals have spent a lot of money on an over-the-hill Molina. Not only do I agree but I would note the Cardinals have a very good catcher at AAA for whom Molina's contract will create problems. I suspect in the White Sox case, there's probably not much at Birmingham!
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Lenny, did you grow up in Chicago? Just wondering why you’re a White Sox fan.
I actually grew up in the northern suburbs (Palatine, then Northbrook). But my Dad (who had grown up in northwest Indiana) was a Sox fan - so Comiskey Park under the lights became my field of dreams.
Friends would ask how a kid from the northside became a Sox fan. I'd tell them that my Dad had a "situation" that precluded him from taking my brothers and me to Wrigley Field (where they played only day games) - a job.
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I'm happy to see some positive Sox talk on here, I know Sox fans are the minority here and in Chicago, so I for one enjoy talking about some good Sox news for once
There hasn't been this much positive Sox talk since they "won" the 2015 off-season by signing Melky Cabrera.
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There hasn't been this much positive Sox talk since they "won" the 2015 off-season by signing Melky Cabrera.
Very snarky. Must be a Cub fan.
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Brewers trading Trent Grisham to Padres, return unknown right now.
So much for moving Braun to 1B so this increases the likelihood of Travis Shaw playing more, which I'm not crazy about.
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Brewers trading Trent Grisham to Padres, return unknown right now.
So much for moving Braun to 1B so this increases the likelihood of Travis Shaw playing more, which I'm not crazy about.
Luis Urias. So if he’s ready to contribute at the MLB level maybe Shaw won’t play. And who knows if Moose is back.
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Full trade:
Shortstop Luis Urías and LHP Eric Lauer to Milwaukee, OF Trent Grisham and RHP Zach Davies to San Diego.
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Luis Uriah’s. So if he’s ready to contribute at the MLB level maybe Shaw won’t play. And who knows if Moose is back.
Credit for Stearns knowing he can't roll out the exactly same lineup next year, and rolling the dice on a high ceiling prospect with lots of control. And a decent back of the rotation prospect in the lefty Lauer. Fair value given up, imo. Davies should do well in SD.
Betting that Arcia is non tendered. No idea about Shaw, but if I had to guess they're going to gamble on him one more year. Would still bet on Moose eventually being back and Shaw spending time at 1B.
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Credit for Stearns knowing he can't roll out the exactly same lineup next year, and rolling the dice on a high ceiling prospect with lots of control. And a decent back of the rotation prospect in the lefty Lauer. Fair value given up, imo. Davies should do well in SD.
I generally like the deal. Urias batted very well in AAA, but that was the PCL so everything there is taken with a grain of salt. The pitcher swap is my favorite part. Stearns capitalized really nicely on flipping Davies when his value is at its highest and got an extra three years of team control over what I think will prove to be a comparable pitcher.
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Credit for Stearns knowing he can't roll out the exactly same lineup next year, and rolling the dice on a high ceiling prospect with lots of control. And a decent back of the rotation prospect in the lefty Lauer. Fair value given up, imo. Davies should do well in SD.
Betting that Arcia is non tendered. No idea about Shaw, but if I had to guess they're going to gamble on him one more year. Would still bet on Moose eventually being back and Shaw spending time at 1B.
Agree. I bet that's the plan. Don't count out a Thames return.
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Jesús Aguilar DFA’d today.
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I bet they tender Arcia and give him one more shot to fight it out with Urias for the starting SS job. If Arcia prevails Urias can play 3rd and Shaw can hit the road if he doesn't bounce back. I still think Arcia has trade value even if they give up on him.
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I bet they tender Arcia and give him one more shot to fight it out with Urias for the starting SS job. If Arcia prevails Urias can play 3rd and Shaw can hit the road if he doesn't bounce back. I still think Arcia has trade value even if they give up on him.
The Padres tried Urias at shortstop last year when Tatis got hurt. It went very poorly. You don't want him at short.
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The Padres tried Urias at shortstop last year when Tatis got hurt. It went very poorly. You don't want him at short.
We'll see. I expect Urias to be the starter at SS on opening day. Obviously, he won't be the defender that Arcia was, but his offense will be light years ahead. I think his pop will surprise people, maybe a 15-18 HR for a guy who was .400 OBP in the minors.
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How about Urias at 3rd Base? I know he never played there last year at SD because they had an expensive Machado inked in there. If Moose prices himself out of the Brewers' range and Shaw dowsn't bounce back, we may have just picked up our 3rd Baseman for years to come.
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We'll see. I expect Urias to be the starter at SS on opening day. Obviously, he won't be the defender that Arcia was, but his offense will be light years ahead. I think his pop will surprise people, maybe a 15-18 HR for a guy who was .400 OBP in the minors.
FWIW, MLBTR said "Indications are that the club will utilize Urias at shortstop." I have no idea what those indications are, just wanted to note it.
I had assumed that going offense-for-defense at short was more palatable with Hiura taking over 2B, but then I looked at Moose and Hiura's defensive numbers at 2nd - it seems crazy to me but Moose actually graded out ahead of Hiura in their limited samples. Then again, #defensenomatta, so maybe two below average defenders up the middle is just a price Stearns is willing to pay. Moose and Shaw would provide + defense at the corners, so maybe that's a consideration too if they're both next year.
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FWIW, MLBTR said "Indications are that the club will utilize Urias at shortstop." I have no idea what those indications are, just wanted to note it.
I had assumed that going offense-for-defense at short was more palatable with Hiura taking over 2B, but then I looked at Moose and Hiura's defensive numbers at 2nd - it seems crazy to me but Moose actually graded out ahead of Hiura in their limited samples. Then again, #defensenomatta, so maybe two below average defenders up the middle is just a price Stearns is willing to pay. Moose and Shaw would provide + defense at the corners, so maybe that's a consideration too if they're both next year.
Direct quote from Stearns :)
Saw the Brewers are non-tendering Junior Guerra. That one is rough give he wasnt projected to make much for a key middle reliever...
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Rosenthal says Brewers would listen to offers for Hader. I wonder what the asking price would be... gotta be sky high for team control through 2021 on a dominant lefty reliever.
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Moustakas to the Reds. (Cincinnati, not Russia).
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Moustakas to the Reds. (Cincinnati, not Russia).
Brewers infield is in a world of trouble. Don't really have a catcher, don't have a first baseman, Travis Shaw has to play every day, and you're relying on a rookie to play shortstop and also be one of your better hitters? Yikes.
Oh and the pitching staff is a mess.
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Brewers infield is in a world of trouble. Don't really have a catcher, don't have a first baseman, Travis Shaw has to play every day, and you're relying on a rookie to play shortstop and also be one of your better hitters? Yikes.
Rumors are the Mets are interested in Hader in return for infielders.
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Moustakas to the Reds. (Cincinnati, not Russia).
4 years is too many for Moose, IMHO.
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Rumors are the Mets are interested in Hader in return for infielders.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
So you fill the infield with trade assets from the Mets (or other team) and then you spend money on one or two starters, two or three bullpen arms, and a catcher?
There are a lot of holes to fill for the Brewers, and they should have some money to spend given they didn't resign Moose or Grandal, let Thames walk (though hopefully they're on the phone with him like yesterday), and traded Chase.
And I don't even think the Brewers should've given the money and years to Moose or Grandal that the Reds/Sox did. But it leaves some big holes in the lineup.
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4 years is too many for Moose, IMHO.
Especially at $16mm per year
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White Sox sign McCann for 1 year/$5.4 million.
Nice deal for the Sox, but it'll be interesting to see if this means they want to try Zack Collins at 1B/DH.
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White Sox sign McCann for 1 year/$5.4 million.
Nice deal for the Sox, but it'll be interesting to see if this means they want to try Zack Collins at 1B/DH.
I think he plays quite a bit against RHP - some C, some 1B, more DH. Or possibly he's included in a trade.
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It will be interesting to see what happens.
So you fill the infield with trade assets from the Mets (or other team) and then you spend money on one or two starters, two or three bullpen arms, and a catcher?
There are a lot of holes to fill for the Brewers, and they should have some money to spend given they didn't resign Moose or Grandal, let Thames walk (though hopefully they're on the phone with him like yesterday), and traded Chase.
And I don't even think the Brewers should've given the money and years to Moose or Grandal that the Reds/Sox did. But it leaves some big holes in the lineup.
I'm on board with this. I'm glad Stearns didn't hit the panic button and hand out any bad deals, but in Grandal and Moose, Brewers lost two of their best three bats not named Yelich from an offense that already only finished 15th in runs scored last year. Right now both corners are a black box, and there isn't much there for notable FAs. Any moves are very unlikley to come close to replacing the lost production at C, so the pressure is really on to find some offense.
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4 years is too many for Moose, IMHO.
especially for an NL team.
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Maybe the Brewers' answer is Addison Russell...
Patrick Mooney @PJ_Mooney
The Cubs have cut ties with Addison Russell and will not offer him a contract for next season.
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especially for an NL team.
Part of the thinking may be that the NL will have the DH in the near future.
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Brewers didn’t tender Shaw or Nelson
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So many holes to fill next year.
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Maybe the Brewers' answer is Addison Russell...
Patrick Mooney @PJ_Mooney
The Cubs have cut ties with Addison Russell and will not offer him a contract for next season.
Ban dis guy^^^
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Maybe the Brewers' answer is Addison Russell...
Patrick Mooney @PJ_Mooney
The Cubs have cut ties with Addison Russell and will not offer him a contract for next season.
Charlie Culberson, Jose Peraza, Cesar Hernandez, CJ Cron, and Maikel Franco are all new options, with a catching tandem of Kevan Smith and Josh Phelgley.
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Brewers infield is in a world of trouble. Don't really have a catcher, don't have a first baseman, Travis Shaw has to play every day, and you're relying on a rookie to play shortstop and also be one of your better hitters? Yikes.
Oh and the pitching staff is a mess.
Otherwise, Mrs. Counsell, how did you like the play?
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Maybe the Brewers chose Braun, Suter and Woodruff to model the new unis because they're the only returning players
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So many holes to fill next year.
Kind of.
My guess is that the Braun move to 1B will be made permanent. The infield would be Hiura, Urias and Arcia. And now maybe they can be a player for a guy like Ozuna. Trade Hader to the Mets for an infielder, and things are looking decent.
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Kind of.
My guess is that the Braun move to 1B will be made permanent. The infield would be Hiura, Urias and Arcia. And now maybe they can be a player for a guy like Ozuna. Trade Hader to the Mets for an infielder, and things are looking decent.
Except the bullpen got them to the playoffs 2 years ago and was a huge factor last year. With a bad rotation, the bullpen has to be very good to great to get to the playoffs. Trading the one great reliever on the team does not make a bullpen better.
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Except the bullpen got them to the playoffs 2 years ago and was a huge factor last year. With a bad rotation, the bullpen has to be very good to great to get to the playoffs. Trading the one great reliever on the team does not make a bullpen better.
I think they see Knebel in the closing role.
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BTW, I am a fan of the idea of selling high on Hader. I don't think closers like him last long, and if they can get some talent to fill the holes on the roster, trading him makes perfect sense to me.
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Kind of.
My guess is that the Braun move to 1B will be made permanent. The infield would be Hiura, Urias and Arcia. And now maybe they can be a player for a guy like Ozuna. Trade Hader to the Mets for an infielder, and things are looking decent.
I think they have quite a bit of work to do. Milwaukee fans don't deserve a slash in payroll; I really hope that's not where Mark A. is heading.
2020 Opening Day (In no particular order)
LF Gamel ???
CF Cain
RF Yelich
3B Urias
SS Arcia
2B Hiura
1B Braun ???
C Pina
SP Woodruff ???
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I think they have quite a bit of work to do. Milwaukee fans don't deserve a slash in payroll; I really hope that's not where Mark A. is heading.
2020 Opening Day (In no particular order)
LF Gamel ???
CF Cain
RF Yelich
3B Urias
SS Arcia
2B Hiura
1B Braun ???
C Pina
SP Woodruff ???
I am confident that they aren't slashing payroll. They've had a plan the last couple of years. It's only early December.
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I am confident that they aren't slashing payroll. They've had a plan the last couple of years. It's only early December.
I don't always trust Bob Nightengale, but he does have a check mark next to Twitter account.
Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
The Milwaukee #Brewers, who are planning to cut payroll, led all #MLB with five non-tenders, followed by the #SFGiants and #Royals.
7:31 PM · Dec 2, 2019·Twitter Web App
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Maebee dale bee a playa for Cole, hey?
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I think they see Knebel in the closing role.
Maybe be ready by the middle of the year.
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BTW, I am a fan of the idea of selling high on Hader. I don't think closers like him last long, and if they can get some talent to fill the holes on the roster, trading him makes perfect sense to me.
FBM, I'm not disagreeing totally with you. Moving Hader would be OK IF you are getting at value back at positions where it is needed and then put dollars into several FA relievers.
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Jeff Passan, through sources, has said the brewers are also open to trading Cain.
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A Mets/Brewers trade of Hader going to NY makes too much sense based on Van Wagenen being the Mets GM, and their need. Question is for Brewer fans, what price coming back makes sense? McNeil, J.D Davis, and an arm from their top 15 - top 30 prospects?
Also, I think Cole Hamels is on the White Sox by the end of the week on a one year deal.
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Presuming he's healthy, I would take Edwin Diaz back in a trade. He might just need a change of scenery to rebound from his awful year last year.
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Also, I think Cole Hamels is on the White Sox by the end of the week on a one year deal.
Just in time. Just like the Sox signings of:
Jose Canseco
Bo Jackson
Robert Alomar
Carl Everett
Andruw Jones
Manny Ramirez
Griffey, Jr
Bartolo Colon
David Wells
Omar Visquel
Kevin Youklis
Jimmy Rollins
I swear I would not be surprised if Kenny signed Chone Figgins next week just because he passed up the Sox in '04.
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BTW, I am a fan of the idea of selling high on Hader. I don't think closers like him last long, and if they can get some talent to fill the holes on the roster, trading him makes perfect sense to me.
Agree, max effort guys with heavy usage seem to get injured or fall off a cliff out of nowhere. He may have 5 more great years or none. Impossible to know for sure. That is a guy to gamble on trading if you can get a good return.
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Just in time. Just like the Sox signings of:
Jose Canseco
Bo Jackson
Robert Alomar
Carl Everett
Andruw Jones
Manny Ramirez
Griffey, Jr
Bartolo Colon
David Wells
Omar Visquel
Kevin Youklis
Jimmy Rollins
I swear I would not be surprised if Kenny signed Chone Figgins next week just because he passed up the Sox in '04.
I get what you're saying, and that washed up player coming to the Sox mentality certainly did (does) exist. Hamels has made it known he loves Chicago and wants to stay here. His podcast with Garfien is basically him lobbying to sign with the Sox. They need a veteran guy to eat innings, if it's not going to be Keuchel or Baumgarner, Hamels makes some logical sense. He's not late 20's Cole Hamels, but I can see their thinking with him as their fifth starter.
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FBM, I'm not disagreeing totally with you. Moving Hader would be OK IF you are getting at value back at positions where it is needed and then put dollars into several FA relievers.
Seems like it'd be easier to keep your bird in hand and just sign position players.
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Seems like it'd be easier to keep your bird in hand and just sign position players.
Not if other people think your bird in hand has more value than you do.
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I get what you're saying, and that washed up player coming to the Sox mentality certainly did (does) exist. Hamels has made it known he loves Chicago and wants to stay here. His podcast with Garfien is basically him lobbying to sign with the Sox. They need a veteran guy to eat innings, if it's not going to be Keuchel or Baumgarner, Hamels makes some logical sense. He's not late 20's Cole Hamels, but I can see their thinking with him as their fifth starter.
He was good enough to post the 3rd highest WAR (3.0) on that vaunted Cub staff last year.
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I get what you're saying, and that washed up player coming to the Sox mentality certainly did (does) exist. Hamels has made it known he loves Chicago and wants to stay here. His podcast with Garfien is basically him lobbying to sign with the Sox. They need a veteran guy to eat innings, if it's not going to be Keuchel or Baumgarner, Hamels makes some logical sense. He's not late 20's Cole Hamels, but I can see their thinking with him as their fifth starter.
Don't hate it, but prefer a longer-term deal with Keuchel.
Sox seem infatuated with Wheeler, though. That I don't entirely understand, but hope by skepticism is proven wrong (if they land him).
As always with Nightengale, take it with a grain of salt, but he's reporting that in addition to negotiating with Wheeler, the Sox again are trying to make a deal for Joc Pederson.
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I'd be very disappointed if Hamels was the Sox big pitching acquisition.
He's very clearly better than what they've been running out, but it would feel like a pretty blah headline move.
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I'd be very disappointed if Hamels was the Sox big pitching acquisition.
He's very clearly better than what they've been running out, but it would feel like a pretty blah headline move.
I hope he's not the "big" pitching acquisition, but I'd be OK if he's the #2 one. Like Pakuni, I'm a little scared of Wheeler especially at 5 years/north of 100 million. The Sox are at best a long shot, but Cole at 8/250 actually seems like the best deal of the "big 3".
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Don't hate it, but prefer a longer-term deal with Keuchel.
Sox seem infatuated with Wheeler, though. That I don't entirely understand, but hope by skepticism is proven wrong (if they land him).
As always with Nightengale, take it with a grain of salt, but he's reporting that in addition to negotiating with Wheeler, the Sox again are trying to make a deal for Joc Pederson.
Dodgers have a ton of outfielders, wouldn't mind Joc in RF.
Keuchel at 3/45 would be reasonable.
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Don't hate it, but prefer a longer-term deal with Keuchel.
Sox seem infatuated with Wheeler, though. That I don't entirely understand, but hope by skepticism is proven wrong (if they land him).
As always with Nightengale, take it with a grain of salt, but he's reporting that in addition to negotiating with Wheeler, the Sox again are trying to make a deal for Joc Pederson.
I feel like the Pederson to the Sox rumor comes up every 6 months (not by you, but by some national writer).
Wheeler at 5 years/$100 mil or more is no bueno. I’d rather explore the trade market than go there.
Completely unrelated, I’d like to see the Sox take a flyer on Aaron Sanchez.
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I feel like the Pederson to the Sox rumor comes up every 6 months (not by you, but by some national writer).
Wheeler at 5 years/$100 mil or more is no bueno. I’d rather explore the trade market than go there.
Completely unrelated, I’d like to see the Sox take a flyer on Aaron Sanchez.
If the Astros don't tender Sanchez I'd be on board but he's more for '21 and beyond. Don't know if he pitches at all in '20.
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If the Astros don't tender Sanchez I'd be on board but he's more for '21 and beyond. Don't know if he pitches at all in '20.
He was non-tendered.
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I feel like the Pederson to the Sox rumor comes up every 6 months (not by you, but by some national writer).
Wheeler at 5 years/$100 mil or more is no bueno. I’d rather explore the trade market than go there.
Completely unrelated, I’d like to see the Sox take a flyer on Aaron Sanchez.
I had heard it was at the "done deal" level last year when it got leaked, and Joc had some appearance that evening and the leak caused an uproar, and caused the Dodgers to sink the deal. He makes a lot of sense for the Sox. Though so does anyone in RF with a pulse. Souza?
I'm also in on Sanchez.
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I hope he's not the "big" pitching acquisition, but I'd be OK if he's the #2 one. Like Pakuni, I'm a little scared of Wheeler especially at 5 years/north of 100 million. The Sox are at best a long shot, but Cole at 8/250 actually seems like the best deal of the "big 3".
In a perfect world, Strasburg is the guy I'd want. Though I see no way that Cole or Stras are anything close to realistic. You may as well wish for a time machine and peak Pedro Martinez to walk through the door.
Wheeler is a risk, but may be realistic. He could play up to a good number 2 pitcher with Giolito. Sure seems like he is going to be overpaid, but he fits the Sox better than the other guys.
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I predict bad off-season acquisitions for everyone.
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I predict bad off-season acquisitions for everyone.
Seems about right. Contracts that are instantly untrade-able.
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I predict bad off-season acquisitions for everyone.
I predict this will be the best off season prediction in this thread.
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Jeff Passan, through sources, has said the brewers are also open to trading Cain.
Of course they are but who’s going to want the rest of that deal?
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He was good enough to post the 3rd highest WAR (3.0) on that vaunted Cub staff last year.
Fangraphs has him at 5th, behind every other member of the Opening Day rotation.
Henricks 4.1
Quintana 3.5
Lester 2.8
Darvish 2.6
Hamels 2.5
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=6&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=17&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0 (https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=0&type=6&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=17&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0)
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@Ken_Rosenthal: Source confirms: Cole Hamels in agreement with #Braves on one-year, $18M contract. First reported: @JeffPassan.
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@Ken_Rosenthal: Source confirms: Cole Hamels in agreement with #Braves on one-year, $18M contract. First reported: @JeffPassan.
Phew.
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$18 mil for a year of Hamels is a hard pass. But if he's getting $18 mil, the free agent pitching market is going to be rough sledding.
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Alex "no such thing as a bad one year deal" Anthopoulos
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@Ken_Rosenthal: Source confirms: Cole Hamels in agreement with #Braves on one-year, $18M contract. First reported: @JeffPassan.
If one WAR is $8M, I guess the money's right. I guess I'd rather overpay for one year of Hamels vs. being saddled with a longer contract.
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Great, so now we're all colluding to prove that we weren't colluding during the past offseasons. All very confusing.
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$18 mil for a year of Hamels is a hard pass. But if he's getting $18 mil, the free agent pitching market is going to be rough sledding.
Yup.
On the bright side, likely this means the Braves won't be a player for Keuchel.
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Sounds like the Braves bailed on Bumgarner after his price tag exceeded 100 Mil. Don't know if that was where he bidding is, or what his asking is, but if Wheeler is over 100, I can see why Bumgarner feels like he has earned more than Wheeler.
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Sounds like the Braves bailed on Bumgarner after his price tag exceeded 100 Mil. Don't know if that was where he bidding is, or what his asking is, but if Wheeler is over 100, I can see why Bumgarner feels like he has earned more than Wheeler.
Hot stove says Wheeler may be down to the ChiSox or Phillies, with the Phils offering more $$$ at this point.
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Hot stove says Wheeler may be down to the ChiSox or Phillies, with the Phils offering more $$$ at this point.
The #Phillies sign Zack Wheeler, per @MarcCarig. He received deal in excess of $100 million.
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Chili beat me by 30 seconds.
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$23.6 annual for Wheeler...I'm fine with the Sox not going down that road. That's a lot of cheese right there.
I know they won't do it, but hell, if Hamels is getting $18, Wheeler almost $24, if I'm the Sox, I'm going all in on Cole and/or Strasburg. I know they won't, but if Wheeler is getting $23.6 a year, wouldn't you much rather have Cole or Strasburg at $30/$32 a year based on the talent? I mean if that rate is that high to begin with, just get the best out there.
I'm all for guys getting paid, good for Hamels and Wheeler.
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$23.6 annual for Wheeler...I'm fine with the Sox not going down that road. That's a lot of cheese right there.
I know they won't do it, but hell, if Hamels is getting $18, Wheeler almost $24, if I'm the Sox, I'm going all in on Cole and/or Strasburg. I know they won't, but if Wheeler is getting $23.6 a year, wouldn't you much rather have Cole or Strasburg at $30/$32 a year based on the talent? I mean if that rate is that high to begin with, just get the best out there.
I'm all for guys getting paid, good for Hamels and Wheeler.
Massive overpay for Wheeler in my opinion, both in years and value.
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According to Rosenthal the White Sox actually offered more to Wheeler. May have dodged a bullet.
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$23.6 annual for Wheeler...I'm fine with the Sox not going down that road. That's a lot of cheese right there.
I know they won't do it, but hell, if Hamels is getting $18, Wheeler almost $24, if I'm the Sox, I'm going all in on Cole and/or Strasburg. I know they won't, but if Wheeler is getting $23.6 a year, wouldn't you much rather have Cole or Strasburg at $30/$32 a year based on the talent? I mean if that rate is that high to begin with, just get the best out there.
I'm all for guys getting paid, good for Hamels and Wheeler.
Glad Mrs. Wheeler is from Jersey and not Indiana.
#WhiteSox’s offer to Wheeler was for MORE than the $118M he will receive from the #Phillies, sources tell The Athletic. As @MarcCarig said, Wheeler’s wife is from New Jersey, and that proximity was an important consideration in his decision.
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So, Arrieta signs during Spring Training, Keuchel signs in the middle of the season, and this year everyone will sign before Christmas?
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So, Arrieta signs during Spring Training, Keuchel signs in the middle of the season, and this year everyone will sign before Christmas?
All the FAs are colluding against the Brewers for their taking advantage of the collusion by the organizations the last couple off seasons that resulted in some team friendly 1 year deals for them.
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According to Rosenthal the White Sox actually offered more to Wheeler. May have dodged a bullet.
No joke there. He is a good pitcher, but that seems just crazy to me.
I completely agree with Dish, if you are willing to offer that to Wheeler, just get Strasburg. I honestly never really got all the love for Wheeler. Good pitcher, and an asset to any team, but he doesn't seem like an ace to me, and he is already 30, so it isn't like there is a ton of untapped potential.
** I do think that it is funny that the Sox didn't just sign his brother in law, when this is the case where it would have mattered. Hahaha.
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If they were willing to go 5 yrs/$120 mil ($24 annually), which probably sounds about right, why in the hell wouldn't they go 6 yrs/$192 for Cole or Strasburg? I don't know if they had any deferred money in their offer to Wheeler, but if you're willing to go $24 per for a #2 caliber pitcher, why wouldn't you go to $32 per for arguably two of the top five pitchers in the game? The cost difference is a utility infielder. They're obviously no where near the luxury tax.
If Cole/Strasburg want to do what Wheeler did, and go home to play in California, and an extra $2 million a year doesn't matter, that's a whole different story then.
I'm sure this will end up being a cluster eff in the end.
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If they were willing to go 5 yrs/$120 mil ($24 annually), which probably sounds about right, why in the hell wouldn't they go 6 yrs/$192 for Cole or Strasburg? I don't know if they had any deferred money in their offer to Wheeler, but if you're willing to go $24 per for a #2 caliber pitcher, why wouldn't you go to $32 per for arguably two of the top five pitchers in the game? The cost difference is a utility infielder. They're obviously no where near the luxury tax.
If Cole/Strasburg want to do what Wheeler did, and go home to play in California, and an extra $2 million a year doesn't matter, that's a whole different story then.
I'm sure this will end up being a cluster eff in the end.
I wouldn't be mad, but I understand the hesitancy about giving $30+ million a year to a pitcher, especially one with a history of arm trouble like Strasburg.
I'd be more comfortable giving that money to Cole, though he's arguably due for a regression.
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I wouldn't be mad, but I understand the hesitancy about giving $30+ million a year to a pitcher, especially one with a history of arm trouble like Strasburg.
I'd be more comfortable giving that money to Cole, though he's arguably due for a regression.
I get it as well, the market is what it is though. The price for pitching isn't going to go down, and if they believe they can contend in the AL Central next year, and want to make a postseason run, the price is high to get a stud pitcher. I completely understand the hesitancy, but that's always going to be a factor. My point is, if you're going to go all in on a pitcher, outside of de Grom, you're next two are probably Cole and Strasburg, and you're not sacrificing talent from your team to get either one of them, just financial commitment.
Would you rather overpay Trevor Bauer, Robbie Ray, or James Paxton next offseason? These two guys are who they should be going all in on right now.
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I get it as well, the market is what it is though. The price for pitching isn't going to go down, and if they believe they can contend in the AL Central next year, and want to make a postseason run, the price is high to get a stud pitcher. I completely understand the hesitancy, but that's always going to be a factor. My point is, if you're going to go all in on a pitcher, outside of de Grom, you're next two are probably Cole and Strasburg, and you're not sacrificing talent from your team to get either one of them, just financial commitment.
Would you rather overpay Trevor Bauer, Robbie Ray, or James Paxton next offseason? These two guys are who they should be going all in on right now.
I think if you're willing to pay 24 million per for the 30th or 40th best starting pitcher, 35 million per and a few extra years for a top 4 guy is a no brainer. Just my opinion, but a relative bargain. Hope the Sox offer 8/280 for Cole. Doubt it gets it done, but who knows?
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Looks like the Brewers got their new catcher, Omar Narvaez from the Mariners.
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Not as everyday catcher right? I’d rather try Pina.
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Not as everyday catcher right? I’d rather try Pina.
Navarez is very good at the plate. Right behind Grandal at the plate. Not as good behind the plate, though.
Now bring Thames back and add a third baseman and some pitching.
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Navarez is very good at the plate. Right behind Grandal at the plate. Not as good behind the plate, though.
Now bring Thames back and add a third baseman and some pitching.
Not as good is putting it mildly. It's worth a shot, but unless either Pina's offense or Navarez's defense just completely bottom out, I think it's more probable we see a platoon.
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Given the splits, a platoon with Piña might not be a bad idea.
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Navarez is very good at the plate. Right behind Grandal at the plate. Not as good behind the plate, though.
Now bring Thames back and add a third baseman and some pitching.
If you bring back Thames, do you go Urias-Arcia-Hiura-[Braun/Thames Platoon] with Gamel playing LF when Braun plays 1B, and Braun playing LF when Thames plays 1B? A sort of 3-part-2-position-platoon?
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Given the splits, a platoon with Piña might not be a bad idea.
That's what I see. And with an expected $2.9 salary and 3 years of control I like the plan.
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If you bring back Thames, do you go Urias-Arcia-Hiura-[Braun/Thames Platoon] with Gamel playing LF when Braun plays 1B, and Braun playing LF when Thames plays 1B? A sort of 3-part-2-position-platoon?
Let's not assume that Stearns is done.
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I like Narvaez. He will give you a good AB every single time. Never gives them away. He can be rough behind the plate though, and he won't catch anyone stealing.
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Let's not assume that Stearns is done.
Fair.
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Navarez is very good at the plate. Right behind Grandal at the plate. Not as good behind the plate, though.
Now bring Thames back and add a third baseman and some pitching.
I gotta disagree. He is 27 years old and has has one good season at the plate. He was never even a decent hitter before 2018. In fact, he was a bad hitter.
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It sounds like the Brewers have a highly thought of catching coach. The hope seems to be they can coach him up on the defensive side. Seems like a split with Pina would do well to replace the offense that was lost with Grandal.
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I gotta disagree. He is 27 years old and has has one good season at the plate. He was never even a decent hitter before 2018. In fact, he was a bad hitter.
His OPS was only slightly worse 2 years ago with the White Sox. He, like just about every hitter in baseball, saw an uptick in his power last year.
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What youz guys need to remember is that his salary ONE SIXTH of Grandal's. I love Yas and I hope he does well with the Sox. But the Crew's plan to load the lineup with salary last year didn't work out well enough for a variety of reasons although they still made the playoffs. And of course they couldn't go multi-year on any of that with those aging players. Only Cain and Braun have the 'old guy' contracts now.
In Stearns I trust.
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What youz guys need to remember is that his salary ONE SIXTH of Grandal's. I love Yas and I hope he does well with the Sox. But the Crew's plan to load the lineup with salary last year didn't work out well enough for a variety of reasons although they still made the playoffs. And of course they couldn't go multi-year on any of that with those aging players. Only Cain and Braun have the 'old guy' contracts now.
In Stearns I trust.
Long road ahead of us, but spending at same levels of last year still feels appropriate given Braun is off the books after this year.
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Long road ahead of us, but spending at same levels of last year still feels appropriate given Braun is off the books after this year.
Agreed. So is Stearns angling to do the Yeli lifetime deal in the next 12 months?
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His OPS was only slightly worse 2 years ago with the White Sox. He, like just about every hitter in baseball, saw an uptick in his power last year.
Again, I always liked Narvaez, especially as a hitter. I certainly wouldn't say he is a bad hitter. Always had good ABs, doesn't swing at junk, he will take is walks. That's how he was with the Sox, and that's how he was in the minors.
I was pretty shocked by his power last season. As a member of the Sox, he was good hitter, but didn't hit with much authority. Maybe he made an adjustment, I don't really know, didn't see much of the M's last year. Maybe it was mostly the ball, maybe it was more ABs. I'd guess in general though, the Brewers will be happy with how he hits from the C position.
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What youz guys need to remember is that his salary ONE SIXTH of Grandal's. I love Yas and I hope he does well with the Sox. But the Crew's plan to load the lineup with salary last year didn't work out well enough for a variety of reasons although they still made the playoffs. And of course they couldn't go multi-year on any of that with those aging players. Only Cain and Braun have the 'old guy' contracts now.
In Stearns I trust.
I completely agree. I wasn’t knocking the move, but just pointing out that he was never a good hitter in the minors.
I would rather have them spend the money on 2 quality bullpen guys and one or two offensive guys who aren’t highly valued.
Would also love to see them sign Ryu to an incentive laden contract. Two years at $6 mil each with incentives that could raise it to $20 mil per if he starts 30 games.
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I completely agree. I wasn’t knocking the move, but just pointing out that he was never a good hitter in the minors.
I would rather have them spend the money on 2 quality bullpen guys and one or two offensive guys who aren’t highly valued.
Would also love to see them sign Ryu to an incentive laden contract. Two years at $6 mil each with incentives that could raise it to $20 mil per if he starts 30 games.
I would bet Ryu would command quite a bit more than that. He was 2nd in Cy Young voting last year and his last 2 years are downright dominant. His track record of injuries and his age will suppress his market, but I'd be shocked if he isn't at least at 3/60 or so.
Not to mention his agent...
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I think I'd like the Sox to take that money that was earmarked for Wheeler and give some to Ryu or Keuchel, then sign Betances and Treinen.
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I completely agree. I wasn’t knocking the move, but just pointing out that he was never a good hitter in the minors.
I would rather have them spend the money on 2 quality bullpen guys and one or two offensive guys who aren’t highly valued.
Would also love to see them sign Ryu to an incentive laden contract. Two years at $6 mil each with incentives that could raise it to $20 mil per if he starts 30 games.
There's no way Ryu is signing that deal. He's going to get at least Hamels money without incentives tied to it. I'd be shocked if he got less than $18 mil a year.
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Agreed. So is Stearns angling to do the Yeli lifetime deal in the next 12 months?
I bet he offers the max Milwaukee can offer, and then I bet Yeli gets more from HOU/NYY/LAD/ETC. I won't begrudge him for taking it either. He's been a helluva lot of fun to watch and I'm going to enjoy it while I can.
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I would bet Ryu would command quite a bit more than that. He was 2nd in Cy Young voting last year and his last 2 years are downright dominant. His track record of injuries and his age will suppress his market, but I'd be shocked if he isn't at least at 3/60 or so.
Not to mention his agent...
Last year was dominant.
In the previous 4 years he pitched in only 41 games. I'll be surprised if he is even anywhere close to what you predict. Now, he may be able to earn that much, but it will be a heavily incentive-laden contract with a much smaller base salary & guarantee. $5 - $8 mil a year with heavy incentives sounds right.
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There's no way Ryu is signing that deal. He's going to get at least Hamels money without incentives tied to it. I'd be shocked if he got less than $18 mil a year.
Based on skill, yes. But teams are not giving a long term contract to a guy who is on the DL every year. Hamels has 10 different years where he started more games than Ryu has started in a year ever.
We'll see who guesses right, but I think it will be a much smaller base salary than Hamels - unless he opts for a one year deal (not smart with his annual injury history).
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Based on skill, yes. But teams are giving a long term contract to a guy who is on the DL every year. Hamels has 10 different years where he started more games than Ryu has started in a year ever.
We'll see who guesses right, but I think it will be a much smaller base salary than Hamels - unless he opts for a one year deal (not smart with his annual injury history).
Trust me, if the Sox can get Ryu for $8 mil, I'd jump at that chance. I think this market for pitching is red hot, and the Hamels and Wheeler deals yesterday seem to suggest there's a premium out there.
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Trust me, if the Sox can get Ryu for $8 mil, I'd jump at that chance. I think this market for pitching is red hot, and the Hamels and Wheeler deals yesterday seem to suggest there's a premium out there.
So would I for Milwaukee. But, remember, it will be $8 mil with another $10-$15 mil in incentives for games pitched.
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So would I for Milwaukee. But, remember, it will be $8 mil with another $10-$15 mil in incentives for games pitched.
Jockey,
IMO 30 starts would make Ryu worth well north of 25 million.
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Jockey,
IMO 30 starts would make Ryu worth well north of 25 million.
That's where the incentives come in. He probably is worth $25 IF he starts 30 games. But, don't forget, he started exactly 30 games in his rookie year and has not done it since. He also never started over 30 games even once in the Korean Leagues. You gotta be pretty far out on the limb to think he will get healthier as he gets older.
I don't dispute what you value him as. I just don't think any team will be dumb enough to give him that kind of money without regard of how many starts he might make.
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Last year was the first time Zack Wheeler ever made 30 starts. And he has never thrown 200 innings. He is a bit younger, and it makes sense with the years, but Ryu's results have been better.
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Pham to Padres, Renfroe and top prospect Xavier Edwards to Tampa.
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That's where the incentives come in. He probably is worth $25 IF he starts 30 games. But, don't forget, he started exactly 30 games in his rookie year and has not done it since. He also never started over 30 games even once in the Korean Leagues. You gotta be pretty far out on the limb to think he will get healthier as he gets older.
I don't dispute what you value him as. I just don't think any team will be dumb enough to give him that kind of money without regard of how many starts he might make.
I'm trying to think of what other significant contracts in recent MLB history were heavily incentive-laden
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I'm trying to think of what other significant contracts in recent MLB history were heavily incentive-laden
I believe Kenta Maeda has a big innings pitched clause.
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White Sox rumored to be signing Marcel Ozuna on Monday. No details. Love his bat but a) he's right handed and the Sox are already more right handed than I'd like and b) his arm is awful. How does he figure in RF?
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White Sox rumored to be signing Marcel Ozuna on Monday. No details. Love his bat but a) he's right handed and the Sox are already more right handed than I'd like and b) his arm is awful. How does he figure in RF?
Just a thought, but maybe just get an early start on Eloy's inevitable move to DH, plug Ozuna in left and go get a right fielder.
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Just a thought, but maybe just get an early start on Eloy's inevitable move to DH, plug Ozuna in left and go get a right fielder.
I'd assume they'll play Ozuna in RF.
Unless they're planning on signing Castellanos, Ozuna, and Grandal. At that point, I'd worry about Jerry's health.
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Just a thought, but maybe just get an early start on Eloy's inevitable move to DH, plug Ozuna in left and go get a right fielder.
Frankly, I would love it if they went out and got a relatively cheap left handed bat to play RF. Corey Dickerson would fit the bill. with Eloy at DH and Robert in CF the outfield defense would be pretty good.
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I'd assume they'll play Ozuna in RF.
Unless they're planning on signing Castellanos, Ozuna, and Grandal. At that point, I'd worry about Jerry's health.
I think that's a safe assumption, but I'm tossing out a viable alternative to having two subpar corner outfielders while addressing the team's long-running need for a legit DH. And as a bonus, it likely allows Eloy to avoid some of the nagging injuries he suffered in the field last year.
I don't think this is the plan, unfortunately, but it would make a lot of sense if it were. Then they could look for a discount right fielder on a 1-2 year deal like Dickerson (nice call, Lenny) or maybe even take a flyer on Shogo Akiyama.
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Crew signed Keon to a minor league deal with an invite to camp.
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Frankly, I would love it if they went out and got a relatively cheap left handed bat to play RF. Corey Dickerson would fit the bill. with Eloy at DH and Robert in CF the outfield defense would be pretty good.
I can't see them moving Eloy to DH just yet. Especially with Abreu now signed for the next few years, and with Collins, Grandal and McCann, and Vaughn on the way.
Ozuna wouldn't be my first choice, but is obviously a huge upgrade (anything would be) over what they've had. Personally I think Calhoun makes a lot of sense. Good, not great player, probably shorter term deal to see if Adolfo/Rutherford/Gonzalez/Walker can develop. LH hitter, good defender. Not the impact bat of Ozuna, but would fit nicely I think.
I'm on board with Dickerson too.
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Yankees over Cole $245M over 7 years
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Yankees over Cole $245M over 7 years
Yankees may get him but I doubt at that number.
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Ted Simmons and Marvin Miller elected to MLB Hall of Fame.
Jay Jaffe had a good piece recently on why Simmons was deserving.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/ted-simmons-election-to-the-hall-of-fame-is-overdue/
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/after-years-cardinals-catcher-simmons-makes-the-leap-to-hall/article_0ebd8def-9d0b-515f-a2c9-e32bee0b0f5e.html
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Yankees may get him but I doubt at that number.
Angels might be at $300M already...ugh...I hate how we blow money in free agency...often way overpaying
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Washington keeps Strasburg. 7 years/$245 million.
Also, for the Brewers fans:
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Free-agent left-hander Álex Claudio’s deal with the #Brewers is one year, $1.75M, source tells The Athletic. Also includes incentives.
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Free-agent left-hander Álex Claudio’s deal with the #Brewers is one year, $1.75M, source tells The Athletic. Also includes incentives.
Good luck facing a 3-batter minimum, Alex. The stupidest unnatural carnal knowledgeing rule ever will affect Claudio disproportionately.
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Good luck facing a 3-batter minimum, Alex. The stupidest unnatural carnal knowledgeing rule ever will affect Claudio disproportionately.
<shrug> I like the rule.
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<Claudio comes in, faces lefty, gets out, waves to dugout>
"What's the matter?" Trainer asks.
"Side grabbed on the last pitch," Claudio says.
<Trainer oversees a warmup toss>
"Not taking any chances with an oblique," Couns says. "You're done."
<Claudio returns to the clubhouse for "treatment">
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Sox say they aren't signing Ozuna.
Bruce Levine says Sox and Cubs are pursuing Castellanos and Keuchel.
https://www.southsidesox.com/2019/12/9/21003654/white-sox-rumors-marcell-ozuna-jerry-to-rick-huh
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<Claudio comes in, faces lefty, gets out, waves to dugout>
"What's the matter?" Trainer asks.
"Side grabbed on the last pitch," Claudio says.
<Trainer oversees a warmup toss>
"Not taking any chances with an oblique," Couns says. "You're done."
<Claudio returns to the clubhouse for "treatment">
That's another reason the rule is stupid. This scenario sure doesn't sound like it's improving the "pace of play."
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<Claudio comes in, faces lefty, gets out, waves to dugout>
"What's the matter?" Trainer asks.
"Side grabbed on the last pitch," Claudio says.
<Trainer oversees a warmup toss>
"Not taking any chances with an oblique," Couns says. "You're done."
<Claudio returns to the clubhouse for "treatment">
That's pretty silly. There would be rules in place to prevent this.
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Brewers signed a utility infielder away from the Tigers today. Ronny Rodriguez is a streaky hitter and a streaky fielder. Can play all 4 infield positions, none spectacularly well. He is a free swinger and fun to watch when he is hot. He doesn't seem to have a plan B when he is not hot.
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Brewers signed a utility infielder away from the Tigers today. Ronny Rodriguez is a streaky hitter and a streaky fielder. Can play all 4 infield positions, none spectacularly well. He is a free swinger and fun to watch when he is hot. He doesn't seem to have a plan B when he is not hot.
So, he’s new Hernan Perez
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Another former Tiger.
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He is a free swinger and fun to watch when he is hot.
You must be describing August 17-23, 2018. Literally. There is no other time in his career Ronny Rodriguez can be categorized as "hot."
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I didn't say they were long hot streaks. If they were, he wouldn't be a utility infielder and the Brewers would not have been able to get him so cheap.
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So, he’s new Hernan Perez
well played
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That's pretty silly. There would be rules in place to prevent this.
I agree. I don't know what that rule will be, though. It should be that the pitcher removed from the game for injury has to go on the IL.
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I agree. I don't know what that rule will be, though. It should be that the pitcher removed from the game for injury has to go on the IL.
Nah, just use the MU-Mizzou FT rule and let the opposing dugout pick the next reliever.
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Nah, just use the MU-Mizzou FT rule and let the opposing dugout pick the next reliever.
I think you are trying to be funny ..., but that might be the best way to stop a team from faking an injury.
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Can you guys believe that there's a mystery team involved in the bidding for a big money Scott Boras client!?!?
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Can you guys believe that there's a mystery team involved in the bidding for a big money Scott Boras client!?!?
They're from Canada. You wouldn't know them.
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Can you guys believe that there's a mystery team involved in the bidding for a big money Scott Boras client!?!?
Usually, if it's a "mystery" team involved, it's the Rangers.
Boras doesn't need to hype his guys. They are gonna get paid.
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Boras doesn't need to hype his guys. They are gonna get paid.
I believe Boras is Addison Russell's agent. He may want to try to hype that one.
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Should be obvious the mystery team either doesn’t exist or is the Astros, his existing team.
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White Sox and Rangers reportedly in talks about Nomar Mazara.
A younger, cheaper and much more 'meh' alternative to Joc Pedserson, I suppose.
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Mazara would be a good guy to take shot on. In 2015 he was a top 20 prospect in baseball, and he's just still just 24. His K% is only in the low 20s, he hits 20HRs per year, and hes got two years of team control left. Sure there are blips, but there's still upside there.
Didi bet on himself with a 1 yr deal for $14M. If you've got that money laying around, that's a fine way to spend it. He was a 4+ WAR player in 2017 & 2018, and heck, a 1 WAR player in half a season last year. Very good chance he returns value on $14M.
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White Sox and Rangers reportedly in talks about Nomar Mazara.
A younger, cheaper and much more 'meh' alternative to Joc Pedserson, I suppose.
At 20 or 21 I thought that guy had star written all over him. Now (as you say) he looks like the poster boy for "meh"
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At 20 or 21 I thought that guy had star written all over him. Now (as you say) he looks like the poster boy for "meh"
White Sox #6 prospect Steele Walker is what's rumored to be going back for Mazara.
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White Sox #6 prospect Steele Walker is what's rumored to be going back for Mazara.
Three years ago the Mazara was near untouchable. Now Steele Walker seems like too much.
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Jon Heyman reporting Cole to the Yankees for 9 years/$324 million.
Righteous bucks.
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Jon Heyman reporting Cole to the Yankees for 9 years/$324 million.
Righteous bucks.
Wow. 9 years for a pitcher is.... well the Yanks have money. That's for sure.
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Wow. 9 years for a pitcher is.... well the Yanks have money. That's for sure.
These days, teams hope for 5-6 good years for a contract like that.
I'm pretty sure the Cubs don't regret signing Lester to a contract that lasts far longer than his best years. He helped them win what they desperately wanted.
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I wish the White Sox would have offered that to Cole.
Report is Mazara to the Sox is done...ugh, tough night. Not happy.
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I wish the White Sox would have offered that to Cole.
Report is Mazara to the Sox is done...ugh, tough night. Not happy.
The good news is they traded Steele Walker, to the Texas Rangers. So that's fun.
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Jon Heyman reporting Cole to the Yankees for 9 years/$324 million.
Righteous bucks.
That’s $1.38mm per biweekly paycheck.
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That’s $1.38mm per biweekly paycheck.
Yeah but after taxes...
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Chit, all deez dudes have fookin' one da lottery, aina?
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Being the Yankees, his first purchase is going to have to be a razor and a haircut. As a Tiger fan contemplating the twin albatrosses of the Zimmerman and Cabrera contracts, I am thrilled the Yankees spent so much on him.
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Being the Yankees, his first purchase is going to have to be a razor and a haircut. As a Tiger fan contemplating the twin albatrosses of the Zimmerman and Cabrera contracts, I am thrilled the Yankees spent so much on him.
Seriously, they still have that rule???
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By all accounts. I cannot find anything saying it has been rescinded.
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By all accounts. I cannot find anything saying it has been rescinded.
It hasn't been.
Andrew McCutcheon had to shave when he was traded to the Yankees in 2018, and Dallas Keuchel spoke last year about being willing to shave his beard if he signed with the Yankees as a FA.
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I wish the White Sox would have offered that to Cole.
Report is Mazara to the Sox is done...ugh, tough night. Not happy.
Sox were never going to offer that kind of deal to Cole.
As for Mazara, I think he's a very blah player, but I'm OK with what they gave up for him.
Walker as a 22-year-old slashed .284/.361/.451 in Single A last year.
Mazara as a 24-year-old slashed .268/.318/.469 in the majors last year.
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It hasn't been.
Andrew McCutcheon had to shave when he was traded to the Yankees in 2018, and Dallas Keuchel spoke last year about being willing to shave his beard if he signed with the Yankees as a FA.
So weird.
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It hasn't been.
Andrew McCutcheon had to shave when he was traded to the Yankees in 2018, and Dallas Keuchel spoke last year about being willing to shave his beard if he signed with the Yankees as a FA.
Marlins had similar policy, directed by the manager, under Girardi and Mattingly.
When I was with the Angels we had same policy that came from the Walt Disney company to all employees at the time, unless it was required for a movie or theme park costume appearance.
Publix didn’t change their policy until last year. Chic fil a still does not allow them. Other companies don’t because of safety issues.
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Chit, all deez dudes have fookin' one da lottery, aina?
Yep. Except unlike lottery winners, deez dudes all have fookin' skills that no other humans have.
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Yep. Except unlike lottery winners, deez dudes all have fookin' skills that no other humans have.
They better hope the RSN $$$ don’t collapse, which appears to be at risk right now, or paying these contracts after 2025ish is going to be really interesting.
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Sox were never going to offer that kind of deal to Cole.
As for Mazara, I think he's a very blah player, but I'm OK with what they gave up for him.
Walker as a 22-year-old slashed .284/.361/.451 in Single A last year.
Mazara as a 24-year-old slashed .268/.318/.469 in the majors last year.
Yeah. I don't get the hate for this move. Mazara isn't perfect, but he is a real good strong side platoon. Still pretty young with a chance to improve, at very least he gives you a MLB caliber player, which they didnt last year. And they traded a guy that was basically redundant in their system.
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Sox were never going to offer that kind of deal to Cole.
As for Mazara, I think he's a very blah player, but I'm OK with what they gave up for him.
Walker as a 22-year-old slashed .284/.361/.451 in Single A last year.
Mazara as a 24-year-old slashed .268/.318/.469 in the majors last year.
And matching the Yanks offer wouldn't have done it for the Sox. Probably would have taken 10 years, 360 million.
I don't mind the Mazara trade if the thought is to platoon him as a RF/DH . He rakes vs RHP. But only is they use the $ they saved on 2 good starting pitchers.
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Yankees may get him but I doubt at that number.
7/245 wasn't even in the ballpark.
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Probably would have taken 10 years, 360 million.
Jeesh! That's almost double what 'topper gets to moderate Scoop!
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But only is they use the $ they saved on 2 good starting pitchers.
They still have to use the "Machado money" from last year.
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Yeah. I don't get the hate for this move. Mazara isn't perfect, but he is a real good strong side platoon. Still pretty young with a chance to improve, at very least he gives you a MLB caliber player, which they didnt last year. And they traded a guy that was basically redundant in their system.
I think objectively the trade itself shouldn't move the needle much either way. They gave up a mid-tier prospect for a mid-tier major league player.
I'd guess the hate is more out of fear that this it all the Sox are going to come up with this offseason. In which case, the hate is justified. I like the Grandal move, but after another year of being promised that the Sox would be at the big boys table this winter, if Grandal, Mazara and maybe some back-of-the-rotation starter is it, fans will understandably feel Rick Hahn has become football-holding Lucy to our Charlie Brown.
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I know the Sox were never going to get comfortable going after Cole, totally get that. My thought is he’s the best pitcher on the planet, in his prime, it costs you nothing but money (no assets). Sox are ridiculously profitable, nowhere near luxury tax, are close to contending, and have a need.
I know he probably signs elsewhere anyway. Sigh.
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I think objectively the trade itself shouldn't move the needle much either way. They gave up a mid-tier prospect for a mid-tier major league player.
I'd guess the hate is more out of fear that this it all the Sox are going to come up with this offseason. In which case, the hate is justified. I like the Grandal move, but after another year of being promised that the Sox would be at the big boys table this winter, if Grandal, Mazara and maybe some back-of-the-rotation starter is it, fans will understandably feel Rick Hahn has become football-holding Lucy to our Charlie Brown.
Completely agree.
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Completely agree.
I agree on all of the opinions on Mazara. Just an OK guy, nothing more. But, he will replace the ABs of Cordell, Palka, Tilson, and Delmonico. THAT is a huge upgrade.
If this move (plus Grandal) is combined with getting at least one of the 2nd tier of starters, plus a piece or two for the bullpen, it will rate as a fairly successful off-season.
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Sounds like a Sox N Sox trade is in the works. No idea what or how close or anything like that, but some David Price related scuttle.
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I agree on all of the opinions on Mazara. Just an OK guy, nothing more. But, he will replace the ABs of Cordell, Palka, Tilson, and Delmonico. THAT is a huge upgrade.
If this move (plus Grandal) is combined with getting at least one of the 2nd tier of starters, plus a piece or two for the bullpen, it will rate as a fairly successful off-season.
Agree on all counts.
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Brewers dipping back into that KBO pipeline. Sounds like Lindblom will be in the rotation. Won the KBO version of MVP and Cy Young last season.
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Yep. Except unlike lottery winners, deez dudes all have fookin' skills that no other humans have.
I tought dat was Ron Jeremy and Peter North, aina?
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Angel's honing in on Rendon.
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And it's done. Quite the running mate for Trout. And with Adell coming, Ohtani coming back, if they can get a pitcher or two they could be something.
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And it's done. Quite the running mate for Trout. And with Adell coming, Ohtani coming back, if they can get a pitcher or two they could be something.
Same $ and term as Strasburg. IMO a guy like Rendon is a bigger impact on the regular season but a much smaller one in the playoffs. Think this will turn out to be a big overpay.
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And it's done. Quite the running mate for Trout. And with Adell coming, Ohtani coming back, if they can get a pitcher or two they could be something.
All comes down to pitching for us, which has been brutal with the insane Tommy John surgeries, and general lack of quality from the healthy ones. On the other hand, we haven’t had a quality 3rd baseman in years and we blocked the Doyers from getting him which I love. Offense I am not worried about...if they get two starting pitchers I will start to feel good.
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I don't follow the Angels and don't pretend to be an expert on them (as hoopaloop does with the Panthers). But I did see a quote in which Moreno said he'd rather give big money to position players than pitchers.
How has that been working for him?
He bought the team less than a year after the Angels won their only championship (2002). Under his watch, they have never made it back to the World Series and have only reached the ALCS twice.
They haven't won a single postseason game the last 10 seasons -- despite having baseball's best player for almost that entire span. They have had losing records in 6 of those 10 seasons.
And the trend has not been their friend: Losing records the last 4 seasons, finishing 21, 21, 23 and 35 games out of first place.
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.” -- Albert Einstein
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I don't follow the Angels and don't pretend to be an expert on them (as hoopaloop does with the Panthers). But I did see a quote in which Moreno said he'd rather give big money to position players than pitchers.
How has that been working for him?
He bought the team less than a year after the Angels won their only championship (2002). Under his watch, they have never made it back to the World Series and have only reached the ALCS twice.
They haven't won a single postseason game the last 10 seasons -- despite having baseball's best player for almost that entire span. They have had losing records in 6 of those 10 seasons.
And the trend has not been their friend: Losing records the last 4 seasons, finishing 21, 21, 23 and 35 games out of first place.
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.” -- Albert Einstein
Clearly you don’t know much about them as stated. I don’t follow the Panthers, just listen to the experts I trus and see how many games they won with an injured Cam that the team kept shuttling out there vs a healthy backup....0 wins is 0 wins...poor play, etc.
As for Moreno, let’s put this in context. The Angels in their entire history have won only 9 division titles. I believe 6 of them have been with Moreno as the owner.
Losing records the last four years...yes...but go a little deeper and two of them at 80-82, meaning one game from .500. They also had the best record in baseball in 2014. They have had more Tommy John surgeries since 2009 then anyone and by a huge number...lots of bad luck on that front. Two promising starting pitchers dead as well.
His rationale is the pitcher helps you once every 5 days vs the hitter all year round. Pitching is key, we all get it, but also more risky investment. He went hard after Cole, he didn’t get him....he certainly values pitching, but you cannot always get what you want. Let’s not forget he did get Ohtani, a pitcher and hitter. Ther e are only two players I can think of that most Angels fans get on Arte for...Hamilton and Wells. Pujols was a gamble to try and win it all in the first few years...they had the best record in baseball and ran into the Royals who swept every team in the AL until losing in 7 in the WS. Albert is a model citizen, great clubhouse leader, community guy, etc. Hamilton was awful. Wells was awful. He kept a trout when many experts said he was gone. He got Simmons for a song. Ohtani for a song. Just bought the land from the city which will keep the team in OC and out of dreaded LA county for the next 50 years.
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Clearly you don’t know much about them as stated. I don’t follow the Panthers, just listen to the experts I trus and see how many games they won with an injured Cam that the team kept shuttling out there vs a healthy backup....0 wins is 0 wins...poor play, etc.
As for Moreno, let’s put this in context. The Angels in their entire history have won only 9 division titles. I believe 6 of them have been with Moreno as the owner.
Losing records the last four years...yes...but go a little deeper and two of them at 80-82, meaning one game from .500. They also had the best record in baseball in 2014. They have had more Tommy John surgeries since 2009 then anyone and by a huge number...lots of bad luck on that front. Two promising starting pitchers dead as well.
His rationale is the pitcher helps you once every 5 days vs the hitter all year round. Pitching is key, we all get it, but also more risky investment. He went hard after Cole, he didn’t get him....he certainly values pitching, but you cannot always get what you want. Let’s not forget he did get Ohtani, a pitcher and hitter. Ther e are only two players I can think of that most Angels fans get on Arte for...Hamilton and Wells. Pujols was a gamble to try and win it all in the first few years...they had the best record in baseball and ran into the Royals who swept every team in the AL until losing in 7 in the WS. Albert is a model citizen, great clubhouse leader, community guy, etc. Hamilton was awful. Wells was awful. He kept a trout when many experts said he was gone. He got Simmons for a song. Ohtani for a song. Just bought the land from the city which will keep the team in OC and out of dreaded LA county for the next 50 years.
I simply cited facts available to everybody.
Sad to hear that your ballclub is singularly snakebitten. Maybe Moreno needs to invest in 4-leaf clovers and rabbit's feet as well as overpriced hitters.
Angels have won as many postseason games in the last 10 years as Cam has won football games in the last 13 months, that much we can agree on.
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Look at this! Cheeks and 82 poking at each other to start a pissing match in the MLB thread. There's something new.
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So .. this thread and the above people have been reported multiple times today.
The text isn't .. removable, nor bannable, so here I am typing words instead of eating Arby's, telling you guys to .. well, I don't know. Stop antagonizing eachother?
Glad we got that settled.
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Dayad! Make MU82 stop touching me! I did not! He started it!
Don't make me pull this message board or so help me.....
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Crean Notre Dame The Ricketts suck
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Look at this! Cheeks and 82 poking at each other to start a pissing match in the MLB thread. There's something new.
It's a baseball thread and we're having a baseball argument. Compared to most of hoopaloop's stuff, this is a breath of fresh air
I just hope Rendon has a good curveball and slider. Angels had a 5.12 ERA last season, and no amount of hitting can overcome that.
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I simply cited facts available to everybody.
Sad to hear that your ballclub is singularly snakebitten. Maybe Moreno needs to invest in 4-leaf clovers and rabbit's feet as well as overpriced hitters.
Angels have won as many postseason games in the last 10 years as Cam has won football games in the last 13 months, that much we can agree on.
I also cited facts available to everyone, I just went deeper than you did. Your facts are correct...so were mine.
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Ther e are only two players I can think of that most Angels fans get on Arte for...Hamilton and Wells. Pujols was a gamble to try and win it all in the first few years...they had the best record in baseball and ran into the Royals who swept every team in the AL until losing in 7 in the WS. Albert is a model citizen, great clubhouse leader, community guy, etc.
Pujols has been worth 13.7 WAR in 8 years with the Angels. After 10 (given his trajectory) he will end up well south of 15. Pretty sure he was north of 15 in 2 good years in St Louis. Given his production and price (10/240 million) he was a horrible signing. The rest is BS - model citizens and good clubhouse guys aren't worth much if they can't run hit or field much. Without his albatross guaranteed contract he would have been non tendered years ago.
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Logos for the Reverse of Team Names
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELqhJRoWoAEhr52.jpg)
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Brewers sign Brett Anderson - 1 yr, $5M. Makes me curious whether Stearns is also interested in Keuchel, given their relative similarities, or if Anderson just represented a good value opportunity.
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Logos for the Reverse of Team Names
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELqhJRoWoAEhr52.jpg)
Irwin’s is absolutely savage
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Brewers sign Brett Anderson - 1 yr, $5M. Makes me curious whether Stearns is also interested in Keuchel, given their relative similarities, or if Anderson just represented a good value opportunity.
Any pitcher can turn out to be a stud, but IMHO this does not look like a "win while he have Yelich" rotation:
1) Woodruff
2) Lauer
3) Houser
4) Anderson
5) Lindblom
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Pujols has been worth 13.7 WAR in 8 years with the Angels. After 10 (given his trajectory) he will end up well south of 15. Pretty sure he was north of 15 in 2 good years in St Louis. Given his production and price (10/240 million) he was a horrible signing. The rest is BS - model citizens and good clubhouse guys aren't worth much if they can't run hit or field much. Without his albatross guaranteed contract he would have been non tendered years ago.
Except of course the only way to get him was to offer him a long term contract of many years which everyone knew would be beyond his productivity. They went for whole thing early on hoping the first couple of years they could get it done. No other choice, if you wanted him....you had to buy the down years. In the early part of his contract, they had the best record in all of baseball, but it didn't translate into playoff success. My point on the other stuff is that despite his production (or downward trajectory) he is admired for who he is. It could be a lot worse if he was a jerk, didn't do great things in the community, etc. He's a first-ballot HOFer and that buys some credibility with some people. No one is denying when he comes off the books it opens up more room for the club, thankfully he isn't a prima donna and remains a solid clubhouse and citizen.
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Any pitcher can turn out to be a stud, but IMHO this does not look like a "win while he have Yelich" rotation:
1) Woodruff
2) Lauer
3) Houser
4) Anderson
5) Lindblom
I’d be very surprised and disappointed if this is the rotation. With the payroll flexibility, I’m still thinking we’ve got a chance at a decent pitcher or taking on a contract in trade.
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Corey Kluber to the Rangers for Delino DeShields and a minor league pitcher.
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I’d be very surprised and disappointed if this is the rotation. With the payroll flexibility, I’m still thinking we’ve got a chance at a decent pitcher or taking on a contract in trade.
With rumors of them shopping Lindor, the Tribe appears to be in fire sale mode ... which would make it all the more tragic if the Sox don't do more this offseason to put themselves in contention. They should be in the wild card race simply by virtue of 57 games Cleveland, Detroit and KC.
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Corey Kluber to the Rangers for Delino DeShields and a minor league pitcher.
Shocked that Cleveland got almost nothing back as Kluber was under contract for two years.
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With rumors of them shopping Lindor, the Tribe appears to be in fire sale mode ... which would make it all the more tragic if the Sox don't do more this offseason to put themselves in contention. They should be in the wild card race simply by virtue of 57 games Cleveland, Detroit and KC.
Agreed
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Bumgarner to Arizona.
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Bumgarner to Arizona.
5-85 with 15 deferred. Meanwhile Rick Hahn is listening to the Chipmunks Christmas album in repeat.
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5-85 with 15 deferred. Meanwhile Rick Hahn is listening to the Chipmunks Christmas album in repeat.
The Sox are trying super hard.
(Source: Rick Hahn)
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The Sox are trying super hard.
(Source: Rick Hahn)
Heard GarPax were called in to consult.
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Heard GarPax were called in to consult.
Ooooh boy. Hope Duke and UNC have strong seniors in the upcoming draft.
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Ooooh boy. Hope Duke and UNC have strong seniors in the upcoming draft.
The Sox have hit the baseball equivalent, with Oregon and Vanderbilt.
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Looks like the Crew is trying to sign Garcia to play in right thus shifting Yeli to left and Braun to 1B. I don't really have an opinion on that but am interested in folks thoughts.
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Looks like the Crew is trying to sign Garcia to play in right thus shifting Yeli to left and Braun to 1B. I don't really have an opinion on that but am interested in folks thoughts.
Garcia is a decent player who never lived up to his potential in Chicago. He's got a respectable bat, but us Sox fans always looked at his tools and wondered why he couldn't/wouldn't do more. Like, how is it that a 6'4", 250-pound man never surpassed more than 20 HRs in a hitter-friendly park?
Also, he's a subpar fielder and injury prone.
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Looks like the Crew is trying to sign Garcia to play in right thus shifting Yeli to left and Braun to 1B. I don't really have an opinion on that but am interested in folks thoughts.
Avi was frustrating as a Sox player. Always seemed like he'd breakout and be a borderline star player, but that never really happened. He had a good 2017 season, and it didn't help that he had hype around him as the next Mags. He was fine in Tampa last year and I think he's fine for a season at $6ish mil, you could do worse.
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Avi was frustrating as a Sox player. Always seemed like he'd breakout and be a borderline star player, but that never really happened. He had a good 2017 season, and it didn't help that he had hype around him as the next Mags. He was fine in Tampa last year and I think he's fine for a season at $6ish mil, you could do worse.
He was never going to become a star. But if being counted on to be the 4th or 5th best hitter in the lineup is an option, he will be pretty good at that.
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He was never going to become a star. But if being counted on to be the 4th or 5th best hitter in the lineup is an option, he will be pretty good at that.
I was a Sox fan that always liked Avi. He isn't a perfect player, and will drive you crazy sometimes when he goes through spells of giving ABs away. But there is talent there. I think this ^^^ is the right way to look at him. He isn't going to carry your team, but he can be an important contributor.
Hi defense, like his offense, can be frustrating. He makes most of the plays, but sometimes will take horrible routes and make poor choices, but he can get to the the ball and he can throw.
He had a strong season last year for Tampa, and I would expect similar results. Really, his last 3 seasons have been pretty decent. And in 2018 he was battling injuries for the Sox. If that is the guy the Brewers are getting, he will help. But as Dish said, don't look at the tools and expect a star. When he hits a 480 foot home run, know that it is a once a year thing. There isn't some huge untapped well there. Though with that said, I wouldn't be surprised if moving to Miller Park (or AMfam? Is that what it is? Sorry can't quite recall) helps him with his power a bit.
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Any pitcher can turn out to be a stud, but IMHO this does not look like a "win while he have Yelich" rotation:
1) Woodruff
2) Lauer
3) Houser
4) Anderson
5) Lindblom
That's exactly right. I also think of it as a "win while you have Counsel".
I'm a Cubs fan, and I've been delighted with the Brewers off season so far. I don't understand shipping Davies off at all. I won't be shocked if they are fighting for the division again like they've done the last few years, but I will be shocked if they are fighting for a world series.
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I know the Cubs need to wait for the Bryant service time decision to fully come through, but it's pretty clear this isn't an all-in year and that they are going to try to retool on the fly while they wait out a few contracts.
The pitching staff: God love him, Lester's best days are behind him. Q is a fine 3 or 4, but hasn't become a big game pitcher. I love Hendricks and he's locked up. Yu's contract went from an albatross to an asset somehow with the new pitcher contracts. Looks like it's either Chatwood or Adzolay for the 5 unless Bryant gets dealt for a Max Fried type.
The lineup - Rizzo's contract isn't being extended. Heyward will keep playing his out. I don't see Contrares being dealt, and they overvalue Schwarbs so I think (as reported) Bryant is the most likely to go given the pay day he will be due with Boras as his man. Javy will be extended at some point.
This middle group is so tough to call: Bote, Happ, Almora, primarily. If that's your bench, fine, but there will be holes to be filled and they are going to have to fill them.
I'd be pretty surprised if we got Castellanos back.
The pen: You're stuck with Kimbrel. You've got Wick and Ryan. Also Wieck and Cotton.... they don't really know what they have here.
Not that he's holding still because of this, but are Theo's eyes already on the door?
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I know the Cubs need to wait for the Bryant service time decision to fully come through, but it's pretty clear this isn't an all-in year and that they are going to try to retool on the fly while they wait out a few contracts.
The pitching staff: God love him, Lester's best days are behind him. Q is a fine 3 or 4, but hasn't become a big game pitcher. I love Hendricks and he's locked up. Yu's contract went from an albatross to an asset somehow with the new pitcher contracts. Looks like it's either Chatwood or Adzolay for the 5 unless Bryant gets dealt for a Max Fried type.
The lineup - Rizzo's contract isn't being extended. Heyward will keep playing his out. I don't see Contrares being dealt, and they overvalue Schwarbs so I think (as reported) Bryant is the most likely to go given the pay day he will be due with Boras as his man. Javy will be extended at some point.
This middle group is so tough to call: Bote, Happ, Almora, primarily. If that's your bench, fine, but there will be holes to be filled and they are going to have to fill them.
I'd be pretty surprised if we got Castellanos back.
The pen: You're stuck with Kimbrel. You've got Wick and Ryan. Also Wieck and Cotton.... they don't really know what they have here.
Not that he's holding still because of this, but are Theo's eyes already on the door?
It's funny you mention that about Darvish, the other day I thought the exact same thing, he's somehow become their best trade chip (if they wanted to go that route, and I don't think they will). If the Cubs had pitching coming up in their system, I think Darvish would bring back a ton. I also think a Quintana trade back to the Southside would make sense. Neither of these will happen, the Cubs aren't trading either of those guys. If their year goes South, both guys could be dealt come July, but I see the Cubs contending for the NL Central next year, even if they don't do much of anything this offseason.
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I'm surprised Avi got $10 mil per, good for him. I thought he'd get $7 mil per max, especially with the other options out there.
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Not sure how I feel about bringing in Garcia with the whole Prince Fielder thing. Going to be a tough guy to cheer for.
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Not sure how I feel about bringing in Garcia with the whole Prince Fielder thing. Going to be a tough guy to cheer for.
Some story?
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I've got no problem with a 2 year deal.
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Some story?
Avi was reportedly messing around with Mrs. Fielder when they were teammates in Detroit. Legend has it that the resulting trades of Fielder, Garcia, and Doug Fister were because of it.
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Avi was reportedly messing around with Mrs. Fielder when they were teammates in Detroit. Legend has it that the resulting trades of Fielder, Garcia, and Doug Fister were because of it.
What's the deal with Fister? The other two I get in that situation.
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Sports fans love few things more than a "Play A is sleeping with Player B's wife" rumor.
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Sports fans love few things more than a "Play A is sleeping with Player B's wife" rumor.
Agreed. But there seems to be a lot of smoke here given the immediate trades and filing for divorce.
https://thesportsdaily.com/2013/12/22/wait-that-s-why-they-traded-prince-fielder/
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What's the deal with Fister? The other two I get in that situation.
Fister? I hardly know her.
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Agreed. But there seems to be a lot of smoke here given the immediate trades and filing for divorce.
https://thesportsdaily.com/2013/12/22/wait-that-s-why-they-traded-prince-fielder/
So on the same day Garcia and Cabrera get into a clubhouse melee, the Tigers work a three-team, seven-player deal to ship Garcia out of town (nice of the Red Sox and White Sox to cooperate).
And this all just so happens to go down on the same day as the trade deadline?
Hmmm.
But the source on this story is "a guy who knows a lot of guys who knows a lot of guys." That's rock solid.
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So on the same day Garcia and Cabrera get into a clubhouse melee, the Tigers work a three-team, seven-player deal to ship Garcia out of town (nice of the Red Sox and White Sox to cooperate).
And this all just so happens to go down on the same day as the trade deadline?
Hmmm.
But the source on this story is "a guy who knows a lot of guys who knows a lot of guys." That's rock solid.
Fair enough. It isn't fact, but combined with comments made by Torii Hunter afterwards, players confirming that there was more to the story about Cabrera being injured, etc. I'm buying it. This has been circulating for years.
Maybe it isn't true. But Prince confirmed he was dealng with some serious personal issues right around that time.
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So why should we care that this guy may have slept with a teammate’s wife years after he was on the Brewers?
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So why should we care that this guy may have slept with a teammate’s wife years after he was on the Brewers?
I don't care much that the teammate was a former brewer. His actions, if true, just make it harder for me to cheer for him.
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Sports fans love few things more than a "Play A is sleeping with Player B's wife" rumor.
By far, the best was the Yankees' Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich trading wives in 1972. Actually, I'm selling this short -- they traded entire families, including pets!
Peterson and the former Mrs. Kekich are STILL married, believe it or not. Kekich and the former Mrs. Peterson are no longer a couple.
The former teammates haven't spoken to each other in years.
As you might imagine, this was quite a scandal in 1972. There has been talk of a movie being made, but it hasn't happened yet.
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I don't care much that the teammate was a former brewer. His actions, if true, just make it harder for me to cheer for him.
Ewe don't have many to cheer four den, aina?
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I don't care much that the teammate was a former brewer. His actions, if true, just make it harder for me to cheer for him.
Oh. I guess I'm not interested in worrying about a purity test for the people I cheer for.
Ewe don't have many to cheer four den, aina?
Exactly. Humans do dumb and immoral things. Athletes are human. Ergo...
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I always thought Avi's swing was very, very smooth. Maybe moving him to Miller Park will work wonders.
I'm not a MIL fan, but did find the move a little strange; seems like their needs are 1B (Braun?) 3B, and SP. The OF is getting crowded.
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Oh. I guess I'm not interested in worrying about a purity test for the people I cheer for.
Exactly. Humans do dumb and immoral things. Athletes are human. Ergo...
It's a bit different for me when it's the assumption that an athlete has done bad things vs. actual information being out there.
Anyways, I was just making a passing comment that he'd be tougher to cheer for. I still hope he rakes in Milwaukee.
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By far, the best was the Yankees' Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich trading wives in 1972. Actually, I'm selling this short -- they traded entire families, including pets!
Peterson and the former Mrs. Kekich are STILL married, believe it or not. Kekich and the former Mrs. Peterson are no longer a couple.
The former teammates haven't spoken to each other in years.
As you might imagine, this was quite a scandal in 1972. There has been talk of a movie being made, but it hasn't happened yet.
Kekich and the former Mrs. Peterson weren't a couple for very long.
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If they can add another bat, the Reds just might be the favorite in the NL Central next year.
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If they can add another bat, the Reds just might be the favorite in the NL Central next year.
Heard the same thing last offseason.
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Heard the same thing last offseason.
Really? I certainly never did. Hard not to like their pitching. Castillo-Gray-Bauer-Miley- DeScalfini is a pretty good 1-5. They had trouble in the pen last year, but I'd expect Iglesias to be better this season.
They have also added Moustakas. Another bat makes them scary I'd say. Who knows if it'll happen. But they'll be better.
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Really? I certainly never did. Hard not to like their pitching. Castillo-Gray-Bauer-Miley- DeScalfini is a pretty good 1-5. They had trouble in the pen last year, but I'd expect Iglesias to be better this season.
They have also added Moustakas. Another bat makes them scary I'd say. Who knows if it'll happen. But they'll be better.
Ageed - nobody that I know of had them as favorites in the NL Central last year. I wouldn’t put that mantle on them in 2020 either but they’ll (on paper) be better. Long time until April, but right now the Cubs, Brewers, Cardinals and Pirates look like they’ll be worse.
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PECOTA had the Reds as a .500 team before last season
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D074XZSWwAEvxfm?format=jpg&name=small)
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The Yankee's new ace has cut his hair and shaved.
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The Yankee's new ace has cut his hair and shaved.
Small price to pay for more than a 200K per inning pitched. IF he can pitch 190 innings per season for 9 years.
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Brewers are apparently close to signing Justin Smoak. Not sure where he fits exactly. He was good a couple of years ago, maybe he is just a lightning in a bottle signing.
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Brewers are apparently close to signing Justin Smoak. Not sure where he fits exactly. He was good a couple of years ago, maybe he is just a lightning in a bottle signing.
There's your lefty platoon at first with Braun. Goodbye Eric Thames.
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There's your lefty platoon at first with Braun. Goodbye Eric Thames.
You've gotta be right, but Braun hits RHP better than Smoak. Maybe a platoon with Braun/Avi depending on matchup and Braun floats between LF and 1B.
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There's your lefty platoon at first with Braun. Goodbye Eric Thames.
Smoak is a switch hitter, btw.
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You've gotta be right, but Braun hits RHP better than Smoak.
To be fair, almost everyone hits RHP better than Justin Smoak. If they Brewers can use the $25M off the books to sign Donaldson, the line-up will look A LOT better than it does now.
Cain - CF
Yelich - RF
Hiura - 2b
Smoak/Braun - 1b
Garcia/Braun - LF
Narvaez - C
Urias - 3b
Arcia - SS
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To be fair, almost everyone hits RHP better than Justin Smoak. If they Brewers can use the $25M off the books to sign Donaldson, the line-up will look A LOT better than it does now.
Cain - CF
Yelich - RF
Hiura - 2b
Smoak/Braun - 1b
Garcia/Braun - LF
Narvaez - C
Urias - 3b
Arcia - SS
That is certainly true. Is there any indication they are involved with Donaldson? The teams I've heard linked to him for the most part are the Nats and Braves. The Brewers seem to be shopping in the used car lot.
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You've gotta be right, but Braun hits RHP better than Smoak. Maybe a platoon with Braun/Avi depending on matchup and Braun floats between LF and 1B.
Good thought.
Smoak is a switch hitter, btw.
Thank you. Wasn't aware.
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I hope the third time's the charm for Gio and the Sox.
https://670thescore.radio.com/white-sox-agree-sign-gio-gonzalez-cheslor-cuthbert?fbclid=IwAR0gyC_sEzwB62_TpyysYN4hiE9CIdAPGnRVksrEpj3M41c4bsub27JaSEA
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You've gotta be right, but Braun hits RHP better than Smoak. Maybe a platoon with Braun/Avi depending on matchup and Braun floats between LF and 1B.
This is similar to how I thought Avi would be splitting ABs in left in a platoon-lite with Gamel, but Gamel, though left handed, hits LHP significantly better than he hits RHP, so his reverse platoon splits confuses matters :/
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Its worth noting that the thing that Stearns' signings this offseason seem to have in common are (for this environment) low strikeout rates. None of Avi, Smoak, Sogard, or even Healy for his low OBP come with huge strikeout percentages. Looks like Stearns is betting on a return of the old baseball and a regression to more typical power numbers. If HRs drop, relying totally on three true outcomes is a less successful stragtegy. If power is down in 2020, the way Stearns is constructing this lineup might look genius. It will be an interesting moneyball type season in MKE.
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White Sox sign Gio Gonzalez.
Terms not yet released.
Good if this is as a #4/5 starter. Nothing more than that, I hope.
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Its worth noting that the thing that Stearns' signings this offseason seem to have in common are (for this environment) low strikeout rates. None of Avi, Smoak, Sogard, or even Healy for his low OBP come with huge strikeout percentages. Looks like Stearns is betting on a return of the old baseball and a regression to more typical power numbers. If HRs drop, relying totally on three true outcomes is a less successful stragtegy. If power is down in 2020, the way Stearns is constructing this lineup might look genius. It will be an interesting moneyball type season in MKE.
He also may be relying on power coming from playing inside Miller Park. Smoak, Avisail, and Healy all have power.
I think with the years that better offensive players are getting, Milwaukee isn't going to land/resign those guys, so hopefully find some guys who can get on base around Yeli and Keston and let them carry the load offensively.
Would love to see them sign a Kuechel or Ryu to pair with Woody at the top of the rotation and then add some middle relief (knowing Knebel is coming back at the back end of the bullpen) and turn the pitching into the strength of the team with two studs in the middle of the lineup. But I doubt we get that top of the rotation starter.
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White Sox sign Gio Gonzalez.
Terms not yet released.
Good if this is as a #4/5 starter. Nothing more than that, I hope.
Can't verify, but I heard 1 year, 5 million. So reasonable. Hope this isn't all there is, though.
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Gio is a perfect 3/4 starter. Good clubhouse guy and will go out there and battle. If it's 1/5M I'm surprised the Brewers didn't offer.
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Can't verify, but I heard 1 year, 5 million. So reasonable. Hope this isn't all there is, though.
Word is $4.5 million for 2020, with up to $1 million in additional incentives
$7 million team option for 2021, with $500K buyout.
Seems fair.
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Pretty sure eye kan pitch 5 innin's and throw a 81 mph fastball two.
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Pretty sure eye kan pitch 5 innin's and throw a 81 mph fastball two.
Tinkin' yu kan knot.
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Tigers pick up Cron and Schoop. I see both as stop gaps, but they have got to hit better than what Detroit had last year. Maybe the Tigers get to 50 wins.
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Jeff Passan is reporting Dallas Keuchel to the White Sox.
If true ...
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/InfantileDirectFritillarybutterfly-size_restricted.gif)
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Tigers pick up Cron and Schoop. I see both as stop gaps, but they have got to hit better than what Detroit had last year. Maybe the Tigers get to 50 wins.
CJ will look like an All Star for two weeks, then a minor leaguer for a month, followed by an all star. Drove me crazy.
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Sox get Keuchel for 3 years; option for 4th.
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Sox get Keuchel for 3 years; option for 4th.
Was hoping for Wheeler/Keuchel instead of Keuchel/Gonzalez but it’s a big improvement over Nova/Covey.
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Sox need a bat and reliever still. It’ll be very interesting to see what they do with Andrew Vaughn.
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Sox need a bat and reliever still. It’ll be very interesting to see what they do with Andrew Vaughn.
Assign him to Winston Salem? It'd have to be something huge to move him I'd think.
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Jeff Passan is reporting Dallas Keuchel to the White Sox.
If true ...
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/InfantileDirectFritillarybutterfly-size_restricted.gif)
Absolutely.
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Sox need a bat and reliever still. It’ll be very interesting to see what they do with Andrew Vaughn.
Why do anything with Vaughn?
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Why do anything with Vaughn?
My gut feeling is they’re making a trade soon.
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My gut feeling is they’re making a trade soon.
I could be off base on this, but I would think, to trade Vaughn, it would have to be a pretty high level player. There have been three mentioned and I'm not sure they make sense.
Lindor: Love him. I'd trade anyone not Luis Robert to get him. Vaughn, Madrigal ++. The issue here, is that I'm not entirely sure that the Indians would trade him in the division. You also have service time issues. Lindor is a free agent in 2 years. While the Sox will be better this year, and can likely contend in a soft AL Central, he may not be the best fit time line wise for the Sox, especially giving up 12+ years of control of two top 30 (ish) prospects.
Arenado: Again, elite talent makes any team better so you want him. I have been in Arenado's fan club here posting for years. He is again tricky, because while he is signed long term, he has an opt out after 2 seasons, he is also signed at a market rate contract. So you're paying him big bucks, trading elite talent, and he is able to walk right in the middle of what should be your competitive window.
Bryant: Same old song and dance. Bryant brings less to the table defensively than the other two, but was back to being that middle of the order presence last season. Best case scenario is that he is a free agent in 2 years, possibly next year (though I would be shocked if that is how his hearing turned out).
While all of these guys make your team better, and a lot better, timing wise I'm not sure you'd part with the players you'd have to trade to make it work ( I would expect all three of these guys would cost Vaughn/Madrigal/ ++). The other issue (and albeit a minor one) is position. The Sox are kind of set at SS and 3B. You certainly move Anderson for Lindor and Moncada for Arenado (though Moncada graded out top 5 at 3B last season) You could easily move either to 2B, or even RF. Bryant is a trickier fit. Moncada is likely a better fit at 3B, and neither Bryant or Eloy work in RF. They could split time in LF/DH/1B with Abreu (obviously he wouldn't play OF at all).
Now they wouldn't necessarily need Madrigal if they move Moncada or Anderson to 2B, and they could make the move, but is taking a somewhat long shot swipe at the next two years worth sacrificing players or even just trade capital for the following 4? I kind of don't think so. Neither Lindor, Arenado or Bryant make the Sox better than the Yankees over the next two years? The Astros? The Dodgers? Nats? Braves? A move like that has to be with a WS in mind. I think the answer to some of those is probably yes, but a couple very notable nos as well.
Maybe someone else I haven't thought about or heard about is on the market (Snell?? TB is always willing to deal) but I have a hard time seeing a great fit. Obviously I want the team to get better and to make the playoffs and make a run. But we've had to sit through the swamp of this rebuild. Don't deep 6 it by getting impatient now.
I'm not against a trade with Vaughn or Madrigal (or anyone else not named Luis Robert) or even both, but it has to be someone that makes the team better for more than just a year or two.
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Agree with pretty much everything buck said.
One name he didn't mention is Mookie Betts, but I'd give up a prospect like Madrigal or Vaughn only if Betts signed an extension as part of the trade.
Speaking of the BoSox, rumor had it they wanted Madrigal AND Vaughn for Price and Benedetti. Woof.
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Agree with pretty much everything buck said.
One name he didn't mention is Mookie Betts, but I'd give up a prospect like Madrigal or Vaughn only if Betts signed an extension as part of the trade.
Speaking of the BoSox, rumor had it they wanted Madrigal AND Vaughn for Price and Benedetti. Woof.
I don't think you understand exactly how good Mookie Betts is. I wouldn't trade him for both those guys if I knew I could sign him to a 8-10 year contract, let alone throw in Benintendi.
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I don't think you understand exactly how good Mookie Betts is. I wouldn't trade him for both those guys if I knew I could sign him to a 8-10 year contract, let alone throw in Benintendi.
I don't think you read my post correctly
Betts is awesome, but as awesome as he is, I'm not going to give up a top prospect for a rental.
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Agree with pretty much everything buck said.
One name he didn't mention is Mookie Betts, but I'd give up a prospect like Madrigal or Vaughn only if Betts signed an extension as part of the trade.
Speaking of the BoSox, rumor had it they wanted Madrigal AND Vaughn for Price and Benedetti. Woof.
Yeah, I heard that rumored ask. It is insane. Here take our salary dump and give us top prospects! What? But I guess you have nothing to lose by asking. Except maybe you scare away a suitor.
I agree on Betts too. Obviously a game changing talent. Right there with Lindor (and a couple others) in the conversation for best non Trout player. Doesn't make sense for the Sox to trade for him right now. Especially with 1 year of control. I'd say they could just sign him next year, but well, White Sox, so that isn't really a consideration.
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Ryu reportedly to Toronto - 4 years, 80 million.
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Ryu reportedly to Toronto - 4 years, 80 million.
I was told this would be an incentive-laden contract.
Mr. Boras has done nicely for himself this offseason
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White Sox reportedly signing Encarnacion.
1 year/$12 million.
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I was told this would be an incentive-laden contract.
Mr. Boras has done nicely for himself this offseason
My guess is that in 3 years, this will be seen as the worst contract given out this year. Not because of Ryu's abilities, but because of injury.
In the last 7 years, he has pitched over 126 innings only 3 times. Should he be expected to do what he has never done before - pitch 3 years of 180 innings?
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White Sox reportedly signing Encarnacion.
1 year/$12 million.
Solid. Sox should score a lot of runs in 2020..
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The White Sox have become relevant again, and that is exciting for the city.
Can't imagine McCann-- in a walk year following an All-Star appearance, is too excited about Grandal taking his catching reps and EE platooning at 1B.
I think I'd rather they go after Puig, who can actually play a position. But, it's hard to say the Sox aren't trying, which is all you can hope for.
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The White Sox have become relevant again, and that is exciting for the city.
Yeah...heard that before. Believe it when I see it.
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Up-to-date HOF Results:
Public Ballots: 59
Anonymous Ballots: 3
% of Ballots Known: 15.0%
"Last Updated: 12/26/2019 at 08:15 PST"
Derek Jeter 100.0%
Larry Walker 85.5%
Curt Schilling 85.5%
Barry Bonds 75.8%
Roger Clemens 75.8%
Omar Vizquel 46.8%
Manny Ramirez 43.5%
Scott Rolen 40.3%
Todd Helton 35.5%
Jeff Kent 32.3%
Gary Sheffield 30.6%
Billy Wagner 29.0%
Andruw Jones 22.6%
Sammy Sosa 21.0%
Andy Pettitte 11.3%
Bobby Abreu 8.1%
Eric Chávez 0.0%
Rafael Furcal 0.0%
Jason Giambi 0.0%
Paul Konerko 0.0%
Cliff Lee 0.0%
Alfonso Soriano 0.0%
Josh Beckett 0.0%
Heath Bell 0.0%
Adam Dunn 0.0%
Chone Figgins 0.0%
Raúl Ibañez 0.0%
Carlos Peña 0.0%
Brad Penny 0.0%
JJ Putz 0.0%
Brian Roberts 0.0%
José Valverde 0.0%
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Yeah...heard that before. Believe it when I see it.
Perfectly reasonably to be skeptical, and the Sox have been offseason champs before which led to nothing, but I love the changes they've made. And while I tend to be an optimist, I think there is reason.
First of all, the guys they are replacing were pretty terrible. Just the conglomeration they had in RF, DH and backup C combined for about -7 WAR. The guys they had in the 4/5 spots in the rotation combined for about another -3. The Sox have improved all these areas, not with replacement level guys, but with positive contributors. Real damn MLB players. Guys that amassed about 10 WAR last year. I get that this isn't exactly how WAR works, but that's about a 20 game swing right there.
They also have depth. On the field and in the rotation. While on opening day they will probably lineup something like Giolito-Keuchel-Gio-Lopez-Cease. They have Kopech coming back. He has the potential to be a top end starter in all of the MLB. I'd say his ceiling is even higher than Giolito's, and he was 6th in Cy Young voting as a 24 year old. They have Rodon coming back over the summer. They have some other high end prospects coming back from injuries. Cease making a jump wouldn't be a shock, Lopez being much more serviceable wouldn't be a surprise.
They also have 2 of the best prospects in the game ready to break through. Now, they have the normal prospect caveats, but for comparison, Eloy as a 21 year old in AAA OPSed an impressive .996. Robert as a 21 year old at those same levels OPSed .974. And he has elite speed and can play, by all accounts a ++ CF.
They also have Nick Madrigal coming, who in his first full pro season hit .311 and struck out 16 times in 532 PA. He doesn't have much pop, but he can hit, run and again, by all accounts play one heck of a 2B.
This is the first time in a while that it has been fun to be a Sox fan.
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The White Sox have become relevant again, and that is exciting for the city.
Can't imagine McCann-- in a walk year following an All-Star appearance, is too excited about Grandal taking his catching reps and EE platooning at 1B.
I think I'd rather they go after Puig, who can actually play a position. But, it's hard to say the Sox aren't trying, which is all you can hope for.
Maybe they are going after Puig, as well.
Mark Feinsand
Verified account
@Feinsand
22h22 hours ago
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According to sources, the White Sox remain engaged with the RF market despite this month's trade for Nomar Mazara. Yasiel Puig appears to be a primary target.
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Maybe they are going after Puig, as well.
Mark Feinsand
Verified account
@Feinsand
22h22 hours ago
More
According to sources, the White Sox remain engaged with the RF market despite this month's trade for Nomar Mazara. Yasiel Puig appears to be a primary target.
I have to say, I'd be surprised. Mazara is fine for your 7th or 8th hitter especially if he is being platooned with Garcia. Puig probably isn't worth the trouble, and really, I'm not sure why he'd want to go to a team where his role is the short side of a platoon.
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I have to say, I'd be surprised. Mazara is fine for your 7th or 8th hitter especially if he is being platooned with Garcia. Puig probably isn't worth the trouble, and really, I'm not sure why he'd want to go to a team where his role is the short side of a platoon.
That would seem like an unnecessary move. Would prefer Hahn focus whatever resources he has left on the bullpen.
+100 on your previous post. No guarantees that what the Sox have assembled ends up winning anything, but this is the first time since the late 80s Sox fans have had legit reason to be optimistic about long-term success built primarily around a core of players who've come up through their system.
2020 success may depend a lot on guys like Grandal, Keuchel and EE, but longer term it'll be because Moncada, Robert, Eloy, Madrigal, Vaughn, Kopech, Gio, Cease, etc. are who we hope they are
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That would seem like an unnecessary move. Would prefer Hahn focus whatever resources he has left on the bullpen.
+100 on your previous post. No guarantees that what the Sox have assembled ends up winning anything, but this is the first time since the late 80s Sox fans have had legit reason to be optimistic about long-term success built primarily around a core of players who've come up through their system.
2020 success may depend a lot on guys like Grandal, Keuchel and EE, but longer term it'll be because Moncada, Robert, Eloy, Madrigal, Vaughn, Kopech, Gio, Cease, etc. are who we hope they are
Totally agree. I give Hahn credit for executing a successful rebuild. And I give Kenny and Jerry some credit for staying out of his way.
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Totally agree. I give Hahn credit for executing a successful rebuild
Little early to be calling the rebuild successful.
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Little early to be calling the rebuild successful.
I could be wrong, but I think what he means is they haven't blatantly blown it. They didn't trade Nick Madrigal for David Price. They didn't trade Luis Robert for Starling Marte. They didn't trade Andrew Vaughn for an overpriced, past his prime middle reliever (I'm looking at you Rockies...).
The rebuild hasn't been perfect. Their drafting has still been just so-so. Madrigal looks like a hit, Vaughn should be, but it is early. Collins? Who knows. Burger hasn't played in 2 years, expecting him making AAA looks like a stretch. Fulmer is at best a middle reliever. Burdi looks like the rare guy that may not return after TJ surgery. Their 2nd round picks look like long shots to make it, though they did turn one into Mazara.
Even with that though, they look like they could be set up to be competitive for years. They haven't been for a long time. I can't wait for opening day, or more appropriately, Luis Robert day.
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https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/why-small-market-excuses-for-not-spending-from-teams-like-the-indians-and-brewers-dont-hold-up/?fbclid=IwAR1FoS3VpkT5I2q2rZxXIJjBAGny1rONHbfasE2jiBnlnFGGQ6sw77LiZYA
(https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/why-small-market-excuses-for-not-spending-from-teams-like-the-indians-and-brewers-dont-hold-up/?fbclid=IwAR1FoS3VpkT5I2q2rZxXIJjBAGny1rONHbfasE2jiBnlnFGGQ6sw77LiZYA)
Why small-market excuses for not spending, from teams like the Indians and Brewers, don't hold up
"To different extents, the Brewers and Indians are choosing to do less than they should be doing. And, yes, it's entirely a matter of choice. Don't let them tell you otherwise."
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Little early to be calling the rebuild successful.
Moncada, Kopech, Jimenez, Cease, Giolito and Lopez for Sale, Quintana and Eaton. Luis Robert and Madrigal. Vaughn. Grandal. And decent stop gaps while the core matures (Keuchel, Encarnación, Mazara). I like all of these moves - some a lot. As long as they stay the course I’m confident they’ll be successful. But you’re right, only time will tell.
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Luis Robert signs an extension with the Sox. 6 years, 2 option years. He will be up opening day. No service time manipulation here.
Seems great for the Sox, and for Robert.
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Luis Robert signs an extension with the Sox. 6 years, 2 option years. He will be up opening day. No service time manipulation here.
Seems great for the Sox, and for Robert.
IF it all pans out, White Sox are set up for a long run:
@JeffPassan: The White Sox control players through the following years:
Luis Robert: 2027
Eloy Jimenez: 2026
Dylan Cease: 2025
Tim Anderson: 2024
Michael Kopech: 2024
Lucas Giolito: 2023
Yoan Moncada: 2023
Yasmani Grandal: 2023
Dallas Keuchel: 2023
Madrigal, Vaughn, Dunning: at least 2026.
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One thing the Sox have done very well, maybe as good as any organization in the four major sports, is lock up young talent to team friendly contracts. The back end of these contracts for guys like Eloy and Robert make the reward far outweigh the risk at the dollars involved.
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Luis Robert signs an extension with the Sox. 6 years, 2 option years. He will be up opening day. No service time manipulation here.
Seems great for the Sox, and for Robert.
Wowowow. Such an interesting contract. At first blush, it strikes me as plenty fair, if a bit team friendly by current CBA standards. But in addition to the normal reasons that a prospect signs a deal before ever seeing an MLB pitch, have to imagine that uncertainty in the new CBA played a significant role here, aina? If so, the Sox are smart for leveraging that to get some cost certainty.
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Domingo German gets a 63 game suspension.
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Domingo German gets a 63 game suspension.
It was an 81 game suspension going back to last season. 63 additional games this season.
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One thing the Sox have done very well, maybe as good as any organization in the four major sports, is lock up young talent to team friendly contracts. The back end of these contracts for guys like Eloy and Robert make the reward far outweigh the risk at the dollars involved.
This has definitely been Hahn's greatest strength with the Sox. The contract extensions for Sale, Q, and Eaton enabled the team to bring in more value in trade for those guys. Due to that, the core they have in place now is apparently quite a bit stronger than the core they started with including those 3 guys.
The extensions for TA, Eloy and Robert look to be great moves as well. Hopefully they are talking to Moncada right now.
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Have to think that the MLBPA grits it's teeth with these deals and is keeping inventory. I'd wager the argument is that this is some form or manifestation of service time manipulation (sign or we'll reserve the right to delay the window for your earning potential). It's not explicit, but it doesn't really need to be. He makes too much to keep down (though they could send him down if needed), so their fates are tied.
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@SlangsOnSports
Luis Robert is the 5th player to receive a contract extension with 0 days of MLB service time in his career at the time.
The others:
Evan White
Eloy Jiménez
Scott Kingery
Jon Singleton
That makes the White Sox the only team to hand out 2 such extensions -- to Robert & Jiménez.
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Have to think that the MLBPA grits it's teeth with these deals and is keeping inventory. I'd wager the argument is that this is some form or manifestation of service time manipulation (sign or we'll reserve the right to delay the window for your earning potential). It's not explicit, but it doesn't really need to be. He makes too much to keep down (though they could send him down if needed), so their fates are tied.
Hmmm. I would think the union is at very least neutral on giving nearly 90 million to a guy that has never stepped on a MLB field before. And when you look at the other 4 guys given deals like this (none to this level though), they seem to skew heavily to the players favor.
There is a lot of risk in these deals for the team. If the player flames out for any reason, the team still is on the hook for 60ish million dollars. If the player is decent, they still end up overpaying for them. The players don't have to go through renewal and arbitration. For example, in his first 3 seasons, Mike Trout made about 2 million. Eloy made 1.8 last year. Now obviously the players trade some possible huge numbers in arbitration and in most cases a year of free agency, but for a lot of these guys, guaranteed millions are worth more than possible money 5 years down the road. The only way the team comes out ahead is if the player becomes a star.
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Have to think that the MLBPA grits it's teeth with these deals and is keeping inventory. I'd wager the argument is that this is some form or manifestation of service time manipulation (sign or we'll reserve the right to delay the window for your earning potential). It's not explicit, but it doesn't really need to be. He makes too much to keep down (though they could send him down if needed), so their fates are tied.
One way of looking at it is that between his initial bonus and this deal, Robert could earn up to $114 million by the time he turns 29.
In comparison, Kris Bryant will have earned about $60 million (assuming arbitration forecasts are accurate) at the same age.
Seems it would be hard for the MLBPA to argue that this is bad for the player, especially when it avoids the service time nonsense that affected Bryant.
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I also wonder if in the short term, if the Sox decide to go back into the international signing route, if there will be a positive impact with the Jimenez and Robert deals with guys deciding who to sign with. The new CBA may eventually change all the international signings into a draft, so it may have zero impact.
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I also wonder if in the short term, if the Sox decide to go back into the international signing route, if there will be a positive impact with the Jimenez and Robert deals with guys deciding who to sign with. The new CBA may eventually change all the international signings into a draft, so it may have zero impact.
Cuban phenom Oscar Colas just defected and will likely wait to sign until the next J2 signing period. That is likely how the Sox spend their next signing period.
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So apparently Cespedes busted his ankle in some sort of interaction with a wild boar. Crazy.
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Nats have signed a bunch of guys in the last week or so. Will Harris, Daniel Hudson, Starlin Castro, Eric Thames, and Asdrubal Cabrera.
Interesting moves. Seems like they did this instead of meeting Donaldson's 110 asking price.
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Reds sign Shogo Akiyama.
The Reds at least seem like they're trying, and the NL Central might be there for the taking given the departures, and potential departures, elsewhere in the division.
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Nats have signed a bunch of guys in the last week or so. Will Harris, Daniel Hudson, Starlin Castro, Eric Thames, and Asdrubal Cabrera.
Interesting moves. Seems like they did this instead of meeting Donaldson's 110 asking price.
Seem like pretty good moves. You need solid players surrounding your stars.
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Seem like pretty good moves. You need solid players surrounding your stars.
Yeah, it isn't Rendon, but solid moves.
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White Sox add Steve Cishek.
1 years/$6 million with a $6 million option year.
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White Sox add Steve Cishek.
1 years/$6 million with a $6 million option year.
Good. You Sox fans can watch him walk the bases loaded now.
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Good. You Sox fans can watch him walk the bases loaded now.
I know you shouldn't put extra emphasis on one outing, BUT..
that game in San Diego in September was so very, very bad. The Cubs were tied for the second Wild Card, Bryant and Heyward each hit two HR, the Cubs came all the way back, and Cishek loaded the bases before walking Margot on 4 pitches in the 10th. I stayed up to watch the whole thing, and then couldn't sleep because I was so pissed.
He appeared in 149 other games for the Cubs the last two seasons, but that one seems to stick out.
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Just another reminder of why extending netting down the foul lines is a good idea.
https://sports.yahoo.com/astros-game-foul-ball-brain-damage-toddler-family-021329952.html
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Just another reminder of why extending netting down the foul lines is a good idea.
https://sports.yahoo.com/astros-game-foul-ball-brain-damage-toddler-family-021329952.html
"MLBPA executive director Tony Clark also called for extended netting in the aftermath of the death of a fan struck by a foul ball at Dodger Stadium."
Interesting because as per Cheeks, this would prevent them from diving into the stands and making great plays!
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The trade with the Cards and Rays is so interesting. There is a lot of speculation that it was the precursor to an Arenado move.
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Sign-stealing penalties have come down, per Ken Rosenthal:
BREAKING: Per sources, MLB’s penalties for #Astros include:
*One-year suspensions for GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch.
*Losses of 1st and 2nd round draft picks in both 2020 and ‘21.
*A fine of $5M.
* MLB has placed former Astros assistant GM Brandon Taubman on its ineligible list.
*Discipline for Red Sox manager Alex Cora, the Houston bench coach in 2017, will be determined after MLB completes its investigation of Boston.
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Sign-stealing penalties have come down, per Ken Rosenthal:
BREAKING: Per sources, MLB’s penalties for #Astros include:
*One-year suspensions for GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch.
*Losses of 1st and 2nd round draft picks in both 2020 and ‘21.
*A fine of $5M.
* MLB has placed former Astros assistant GM Brandon Taubman on its ineligible list.
*Discipline for Red Sox manager Alex Cora, the Houston bench coach in 2017, will be determined after MLB completes its investigation of Boston.
Huge penalties! I expected nothing after the Cardinals got slapped on the wrist for hacking the Astros.
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Sign-stealing penalties have come down, per Ken Rosenthal:
BREAKING: Per sources, MLB’s penalties for #Astros include:
*One-year suspensions for GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch.
*Losses of 1st and 2nd round draft picks in both 2020 and ‘21.
*A fine of $5M.
* MLB has placed former Astros assistant GM Brandon Taubman on its ineligible list.
*Discipline for Red Sox manager Alex Cora, the Houston bench coach in 2017, will be determined after MLB completes its investigation of Boston.
GOOD!!! TYRANNICAL! LOVE IT!
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Sign-stealing penalties have come down, per Ken Rosenthal:
BREAKING: Per sources, MLB’s penalties for #Astros include:
*One-year suspensions for GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch.
*Losses of 1st and 2nd round draft picks in both 2020 and ‘21.
*A fine of $5M.
* MLB has placed former Astros assistant GM Brandon Taubman on its ineligible list.
*Discipline for Red Sox manager Alex Cora, the Houston bench coach in 2017, will be determined after MLB completes its investigation of Boston.
ncaa...take notes
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Sign-stealing penalties have come down, per Ken Rosenthal:
BREAKING: Per sources, MLB%u2019s penalties for #Astros include:
*One-year suspensions for GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch.
*Losses of 1st and 2nd round draft picks in both 2020 and %u201821.
*A fine of $5M.
* MLB has placed former Astros assistant GM Brandon Taubman on its ineligible list.
*Discipline for Red Sox manager Alex Cora, the Houston bench coach in 2017, will be determined after MLB completes its investigation of Boston.
Love it. Kind of wish it were a bit more strict, but its solid.
I bet Boston doesn't get out of this unscathed. Well--- Cora anyways.
Hinch and Luhnow fired...
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Disappointed in Hinch. Seemes like a good guy, was involved with USA Baseball and coach training.
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Now being reported that the Astros have fired Hinch and Luhnow.
Will Alex Cora survive?
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ncaa...take notes
Hope you aren't holding your breath.
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Hinch and Luhnow are the fall guys, hopefully Cora gets a multi year suspension.
Seems like MLB probably knew both Hinch and Luhnow would be terminated, hence the one season suspension.
No players mentioned, seems like someone on the field should have been complicit here.
Draft pick losses are the key here.
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Draft pick losses are the key here.
Serious question. How big are first and second round draft picks in MLB versus NBA and NFL? As in, how many 1st and second round picks make it to the major leagues? I know farm systems are important for most teams, but how much?
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Serious question. How big are first and second round draft picks in MLB versus NBA and NFL? As in, how many 1st and second round picks make it to the major leagues? I know farm systems are important for most teams, but how much?
Not nearly as important. Most first-round picks make it to the majors, but the majority aren't impact players. About half second-round picks make it, but again, not impact players.
Those odds vary dramatically depending on where a player is drafted. First-round picks can expect to reach the major leagues. First-round picks who don’t make it are the exception. From 1981 to 2010, 73 percent of first-round picks reached the majors. In 2004, only two of the 29 first-round picks who signed failed to make the majors—a 93 percent success rate that will be hard to beat.
But that success rate drops off quickly. By the second round, the rate of players who reach the majors dips to 51 percent. In the third round, 40 percent are eventually going to be major leaguers. From there it continues to steadily dip.
https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/how-many-mlb-draftees-make-it-to-the-majors/
https://community.fangraphs.com/success-rate-of-mlb-first-round-draft-picks-by-slot/
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ncaa...take notes
NCAA is an association of members....come on...you're a lawyer, you know the differences between the orgs are watermelons to chevy pickup trucks.
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NCAA is an association of members....come on...you're a lawyer, you know the differences between the orgs are watermelons to chevy pickup trucks.
Unlike you, I don't know everything. But I do know that the NCAA could ban instiutions from post season bids and give coaches show causes. Some of these recent allegations, if true, deserve that.
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Hinch and Luhnow are the fall guys, hopefully Cora gets a multi year suspension.
Seems like MLB probably knew both Hinch and Luhnow would be terminated, hence the one season suspension.
No players mentioned, seems like someone on the field should have been complicit here.
Draft pick losses are the key here.
They probably didn't want to open a can of worms with the MLBPA with a new CBA on the horizon.
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Serious question. How big are first and second round draft picks in MLB versus NBA and NFL? As in, how many 1st and second round picks make it to the major leagues? I know farm systems are important for most teams, but how much?
They are more risky than the NFL or NBA, but that is still significant. They also lose the pool money for the draft, which is also a big deal and can help teams later on in the draft.
While the draft in any sport is a crap shoot, and moreso in baseball, the first round is still a team's best bet to secure an impact player. The only thing that competes is the international market ( I would have loved to see Houston get hit here too...) but that is still risky as it usually means signing kids that are 16 or 17 years old.
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Huge penalties! I expected nothing after the Cardinals got slapped on the wrist for hacking the Astros.
The Cardinals had to give up their top two draft picks, and were fined the maximum allowed at the time. Chris Correa was banned for life and went to prison. The Astros seem to keep getting into these situations.
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A.J. Hinch, crossed the line
Luhnow gone, heavy fine
Draft picks lost, rings are not
Owner sad for getting caught
Crane denied part in team's
Making up the banging scheme
Taubman censured in the text
Cora, Beltran might be next
We didn't blame Mike Fiers.
I don't know how to embed tweets on scoop but this guy made my day with this:
Matt Sussman 🥌
@suss2hyphens
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A.J. Hinch, crossed the line
Luhnow gone, heavy fine
Draft picks lost, rings are not
Owner sad for getting caught
Crane denied part in team's
Making up the banging scheme
Taubman censured in the text
Cora, Beltran might be next
We didn't blame Mike Fiers.
I don't know how to embed tweets on scoop but this guy made my day with this:
Matt Sussman 🥌
@suss2hyphens
He was always pitching but now he's bitching...
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He was always pitching but now he's bitching...
Cannot throw a fastball
Put in a call to Rosenthal
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Everybody thinks he sucks
just tryin' to make a couple bucks.
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They probably didn't want to open a can of worms with the MLBPA with a new CBA on the horizon.
I forgot where I read it this afternoon, but I believe I heard players were given immunity for their cooperation. If that's the case, I can see that making sense.
I agree with you on the international bonus pool money, I'd have liked to see them get the hammer there as well. My gut feeling is still that the international system will change drastically upon a new CBA. Also agree that that on the surface to some it doesn't seem like the draft picks may be that big a deal, but in MLB with their slotted allotment for draft picks, it certainly cripples them from the ability to over slot a guy now. They'd really have to hit on someone and have a prearranged agreement to get to round 3 now to make that happen.
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I bet Boston doesn't get out of this unscathed.
Then Stern and the Brewers?
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Then Stern and the Brewers?
Why? Have the Brewers been accused of something?
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Why? Have the Brewers been accused of something?
They’ve been accused but MLB has not found anything in any investigations.
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They’ve been accused but MLB has not found anything in any investigations.
Wow. Thanks. Must have missed that.
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Then Stern and the Brewers?
I'll bet Nori Aoki was the culprit behind all of it.
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Why? Have the Brewers been accused of something?
Smoke from November...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.brewcrewball.com/platform/amp/2019/11/14/20963825/milwaukee-brewers-mlb-sign-stealing-controversy-houston-astros
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Wow. Thanks. Must have missed that.
I posted a few months ago. Remember when Yellich took to Twitter to go after Yu Darvish?
https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2019/11/12/multiple-players-identify-brewers-as-among-the-most-egregious-electronic-sign-stealers/
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Wow. Thanks. Must have missed that.
Tried to find an article that talked about that but so far only saw it posted on a Brewers message board. Mentioned last year the Pirates and Cubs had complaints but was nothing. Not sure if that’s true at all, but thought I’d seen that a few places.
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I posted a few months ago. Remember when Yellich took to Twitter to go after Yu Darvish?
https://www.bleachernation.com/cubs/2019/11/12/multiple-players-identify-brewers-as-among-the-most-egregious-electronic-sign-stealers/
Yeah when Yu insinuated Yeli was stealing signs from the Brewers bullpen by looking out at...the Cubs bullpen. Caught. No wonder Yeli was so damn good. His opponent is giving him their signs.
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There was rumored to be up to 8 teams under MLB investigation including the Astros, Red Sox, Orioles, Brewers with ex-Astros employees. I think MLB leaves it with the Astros and Red Sox but let's see.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/mlb/2020/01/13/houston-astros-cheating-punishment
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There was rumored to be up to 8 teams under MLB investigation including the Astros, Red Sox, Orioles, Brewers with ex-Astros employees. I think MLB leaves it with the Astros and Red Sox but let's see.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/mlb/2020/01/13/houston-astros-cheating-punishment
Yeah, one guy mentioned but to say "thin" is being generous. Just because someone used to work for the Astros and then with the Brewers isn't enough.
http://sportsmockery.com/2019/11/brewers-also-accused-of-cheating-like-the-astros/
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Maybe after all of this, the silver lining is we can drop the false pretenses and let Pete Rose into the HOF
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Laughter from this Houston fan (my tear ducts shut down long ago)....as any Houston fan knows this is simply typical for us.
Consider in the last 24 hours:
1) the Texans choked off a 24-0 deficit to lose by 20...we draw on our memory of the Oilers in 1993 choking a 35-3 Bills lead ...but this one seemed worse. We liked Bum Phillips even in those Steeler Luv Ya Blue losses..we cant stand Bill Obrien. He is an immovable mud pit of mediocrity.
2) lifelong Astros fans ( since 1960) finally got their World Series win in 2017, and a statistically historical team falls just short in 2019....But wait ...shucks...from today on we are forever tainted cheaters, rightly so. We should have known ...the day after the WS parade in 2017, QB Deshaun Watson is out for the year ...ACL blowout in a thursday practice. A reminder from the gods...you are a Houston sports fan...no good goes unpunished.
3) every time UH football got good our coaches move on (Art Briles, Kevin Sumlin, Tom Herman) With pride we lure one with a Power 5 pedigree Dana Holverson only to watch him revert us to 4-8 with just one home win. Today our QB announced that... after shutting himself down mid season...he is going elsewhere.
Oh well just another typical 24 hour period in Houston sports fandom. 40 years for me now. Except for a window of Rockets in early 90s....this is our typical....So, why do folks keep moving here? If they like sports they deserve the warning.
Houston is a brutal town to be a sports fan.
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Except for a window of Rockets in early 90s....
Houston is a brutal town to be a sports fan.
Good thing Jordan took a couple years off. ;)
/Not a Bulls fan
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Maybe after all of this, the silver lining is we can drop the false pretenses and let Pete Rose into the HOF
Absolutely not
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Houston cheats in '17; Cora and the Red Sox cheat in '18 (probably).
Recent World Series Winners:
2015: Royals
2016: Cubs
2017: Cubs again
2018: Still Cubs
2019: Nats
Once we find out Strasburg is part robot, the Cubs will be looking to defend their 5th title in a row.
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Houston cheats in '17; Cora and the Red Sox cheat in '18 (probably).
Recent World Series Winners:
2015: Royals
2016: Cubs
2017: Cubs again
2018: Still Cubs
2019: Nats
Once we find out Strasburg is part robot, the Cubs will be looking to defend their 5th title in a row.
Yeah but when you apply the domestic abuse penalty it's all the Royals.
The Dodgers, the biggest victims of the sign stealing also had a deal in place for Chapman before the Yankees traded for him, but killed the deal because of his situation.
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Yeah but when you apply the domestic abuse penalty it's all the Royals.
The Dodgers, the biggest victims of the sign stealing also had a deal in place for Chapman before the Yankees traded for him, but killed the deal because of his situation.
I guess LAD didn't get the memo on Julio Urias, (or Puig, for that matter).
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Penalties designed to come off as harsh, allow the Astros to make a clean break, and hope everyone forgets. Should have been much more.
Also, I understand the CBA and upcoming labor issues making the player immunity a reasonable idea, but I'd like to see them officially named and shamed by MLB.
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Penalties designed to come off as harsh, allow the Astros to make a clean break, and hope everyone forgets. Should have been much more.
Also, I understand the CBA and upcoming labor issues making the player immunity a reasonable idea, but I'd like to see them officially named and shamed by MLB.
where would the astros have drafted within 202 & 2021 draft anyway?
the salaries lost via firing of luhnow and hinch more than make up for the $5 mil fine
owner crane was last seen grinning like a cheshire cat while slapping his own hand...bad jimmy...bad jimmy
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where would the astros have drafted within 202 & 2021 draft anyway?
the salaries lost via firing of luhnow and hinch more than make up for the $5 mil fine
They still have to hire people to take their place though.
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Penalties designed to come off as harsh, allow the Astros to make a clean break, and hope everyone forgets. Should have been much more.
Also, I understand the CBA and upcoming labor issues making the player immunity a reasonable idea, but I'd like to see them officially named and shamed by MLB.
I can name them for you. The Astros. All of them.
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Penalties designed to come off as harsh, allow the Astros to make a clean break, and hope everyone forgets. Should have been much more.
Also, I understand the CBA and upcoming labor issues making the player immunity a reasonable idea, but I'd like to see them officially named and shamed by MLB.
$5 mil is couch change for these owners - but it is the max allowed. They should have taken away draft picks for 5 years at least. They made so much money by cheating that they can afford to buy anyone they need.
Alex Cora should be banned for life. He was the instigator for rampant cheating for 2 teams now.
I realize it would be a battle to the death with the players union, but I can't think of any reason players shouldn't get long suspensions. MLB is sending out the message that some cheating is OK and some is not.
If a star is caught with steroids in his blood, he gets 80 games, which could cost him $10-415 mil. Why should they get a pass on this type of cheating?
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Quite a stretch for the Astros, what with that (now former) assistant GM being a dirtball misogynist and the organization initially lying about it ... to go with the team's epic choke in the World Series ... and now this.
Well done!
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$5 mil is couch change for these owners - but it is the max allowed. They should have taken away draft picks for 5 years at least. They made so much money by cheating that they can afford to buy anyone they need.
Alex Cora should be banned for life. He was the instigator for rampant cheating for 2 teams now.
I realize it would be a battle to the death with the players union, but I can't think of any reason players shouldn't get long suspensions. MLB is sending out the message that some cheating is OK and some is not.
If a star is caught with steroids in his blood, he gets 80 games, which could cost him $10-415 mil. Why should they get a pass on this type of cheating?
Maybe institute a show-cause penalty as the NCAA has for coaches?
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Quite a stretch for the Astros, what with that (now former) assistant GM being a dirtball misogynist and the organization initially lying about it ... to go with the team's epic choke in the World Series ... and now this.
Well done!
Agree.
I do feel bad for Houwarrior. Seems like a pretty decent guy but it's been a rough week to be a fan of Houston teams.
I had posted earlier how this is the golden age for Wisconsin sports fan (don't let me down, Wojo), but I can empathize as we went through most of the 70's and 80's here (among other bad stretches).
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Alex Cora and the Red Sox "mutually agree to part ways."
Conscious uncoupling?
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Alex Cora and the Red Sox "mutually agree to part ways."
Conscious uncoupling?
CYA by Boston ;D
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Interesting, though, is that the guy who got off the easiest was the richest guy. That almost never happens ;D ;D ;D ;D
Manfred has reacted to this crisis just as poorly as Selig did to steroids. Ignore, ignore; then when you can't ignore any more, act like you were the guy who cleaned things up. Threaten the other owners that if they complain about the lenient penalty, they will get a worse one. Selig redux!
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Interesting, though, is that the guy who got off the easiest was the richest guy. That almost never happens ;D ;D ;D ;D
Manfred has reacted to this crisis just as poorly as Selig did to steroids. Ignore, ignore; then when you can't ignore any more, act like you were the guy who cleaned things up. Threaten the other owners that if they complain about the lenient penalty, they will get a worse one. Selig redux!
Astros lost the most successful GM and coach in team history, four high picks and $5 million. Not sure how that qualifies as the owner getting off easy, especially when there's zero evidence he played any role or was aware of any of this.
Honestly not sure what else you'd expect.
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Astros lost the most successful GM and coach in team history, four high picks and $5 million. Not sure how that qualifies as the owner getting off easy, especially when there's zero evidence he played any role or was aware of any of this.
Honestly not sure what else you'd expect.
This is where I’m at.
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The o/u in Sox/Twins games is going to be double digits most nights this coming season.
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Astros lost the most successful GM and coach in team history, four high picks and $5 million. Not sure how that qualifies as the owner getting off easy, especially when there's zero evidence he played any role or was aware of any of this.
Honestly not sure what else you'd expect.
You should listen to Doyers radio here, they are convinced that the owner knew absolutely everything. They want the championships stripped and given to the Doyers. It was quite the shows this morning.
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$5 mil is couch change for these owners - but it is the max allowed. They should have taken away draft picks for 5 years at least. They made so much money by cheating that they can afford to buy anyone they need.
Alex Cora should be banned for life. He was the instigator for rampant cheating for 2 teams now.
I realize it would be a battle to the death with the players union, but I can't think of any reason players shouldn't get long suspensions. MLB is sending out the message that some cheating is OK and some is not.
If a star is caught with steroids in his blood, he gets 80 games, which could cost him $10-415 mil. Why should they get a pass on this type of cheating?
Brandx....we agree.
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Astros lost the most successful GM and coach in team history, four high picks and $5 million. Not sure how that qualifies as the owner getting off easy, especially when there's zero evidence he played any role or was aware of any of this.
Honestly not sure what else you'd expect.
Lifetime bans for all of them: Luhnow, Hinch, Beltran, Cora. If possible, "official" asterisk on the WS win.
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Lifetime bans for all of them: Luhnow, Hinch, Beltran, Cora. If possible, "official" asterisk on the WS win.
I wouldn't do the asterisk because then an asterisk should be by all the WS champs that had a player used steroids, etc, etc.
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The o/u in Sox/Twins games is going to be double digits most nights this coming season.
They didn't get pitching, but they got an impact player. Hell of a move.
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Astros corruption uncovered by reporters, of course.
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Astros lost the most successful GM and coach in team history, four high picks and $5 million. Not sure how that qualifies as the owner getting off easy, especially when there's zero evidence he played any role or was aware of any of this.
Honestly not sure what else you'd expect.
What did the owner lose, though? His franchise made 100s of millions off of the cheating. Poor guy has to give 5 back?
Did he suffer having to fire 2 cheaters? I don't think it hurts him a bit and he can use those extra 100.s of millions to sign guys to make up for the lost draft choices.
The biggest single key to being a great hitter is pitch recognition. That is the entire point of why they stole signs. So besides the owner getting richer by cheating (meaning it paid off), the players did as well. Bigger stats means bigger $$$.
I see only 2 sympathetic figures here. Just barely sympathetic is Hinch. He wanted no part of the scam but was too big of a coward to speak up. The other is Mike Fiers who will have to deal with the fallout for the rest of his career.
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Astros corruption uncovered by reporters, of course.
Players came forward to spill the beans if that’s what you mean....something that can be done in today’s age without any reporters at all. As more and more athletes go down the path of the Athletes Tribune model, it is going to be interesting to see where reporters fit in.
I have meeting with the Athletic tomorrow, one of our discussion points...the future of sports media in a world where athletes don’t want to talk to the media but can still control their own message...in a world where media companies are downsizing like crazy. Interesting times.
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What did the owner lose, though? His franchise made 100s of millions off of the cheating. Poor guy has to give 5 back?
Did he suffer having to fire 2 cheaters? I don't think it hurts him a bit and he can use those extra 100.s of millions to sign guys to make up for the lost draft choices.
The biggest single key to being a great hitter is pitch recognition. That is the entire point of why they stole signs. So besides the owner getting richer by cheating (meaning it paid off), the players did as well. Bigger stats means bigger $$$.
I see only 2 sympathetic figures here. Just barely sympathetic is Hinch. He wanted no part of the scam but was too big of a coward to speak up. The other is Mike Fiers who will have to deal with the fallout for the rest of his career.
Source for the 100’s of millions. Not value inflation, but where is it that you are sourcing he made 100’s of millions off the World Series....would like to see this.
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I see only 2 sympathetic figures here. Just barely sympathetic is Hinch. He wanted no part of the scam but was too big of a coward to speak up. The other is Mike Fiers who will have to deal with the fallout for the rest of his career.
AJ Hinch, who had all the power in the world to stop this but allowed it to continue and then mocked those who raised questions about it ... he's a sympathetic figure? Wut?
He's every bit the villain as Alex Cora and the players who participated. Simply put, if Hinch wanted it to end, it would have ended. He could have dismissed Cora. He could have benched and fined players who took part. He could have reported it to MLB. He did none of these things. Instead, he allowed it to continue because it was producing the results that got him a ring, public acclaim and a fat contract extension.
On the other hand, Crane is being punished for doing nothing wrong. I don't necessarily think that's unfair, because the club as a whole needs to be punished, but to argue that a guy who had no role in this deserves a harsher punishment while the guy who allowed it is sympathetic is perplexing.
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AJ Hinch, who had all the power in the world to stop this but allowed it to continue and then mocked those who raised questions about it ... he's a sympathetic figure? Wut?
He's every bit the villain as Alex Cora and the players who participated. Simply put, if Hinch wanted it to end, it would have ended. He could have dismissed Cora. He could have benched and fined players who took part. He could have reported it to MLB. He did none of these things. Instead, he allowed it to continue because it was producing the results that got him a ring, public acclaim and a fat contract extension.
On the other hand, Crane is being punished for doing nothing wrong. I don't necessarily think that's unfair, because the club as a whole needs to be punished, but to argue that a guy who had no role in this deserves a harsher punishment while the guy who allowed it is sympathetic is perplexing.
ESPN drive home tonight, the announcers believe Crane knew as a hands on owner. Will be interesting to see if that comes to light....that would be some good work by reporters.
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AJ Hinch, who had all the power in the world to stop this but allowed it to continue and then mocked those who raised questions about it ... he's a sympathetic figure? Wut?
He's every bit the villain as Alex Cora and the players who participated. Simply put, if Hinch wanted it to end, it would have ended. He could have dismissed Cora. He could have benched and fined players who took part. He could have reported it to MLB. He did none of these things. Instead, he allowed it to continue because it was producing the results that got him a ring, public acclaim and a fat contract extension.
On the other hand, Crane is being punished for doing nothing wrong. I don't necessarily think that's unfair, because the club as a whole needs to be punished, but to argue that a guy who had no role in this deserves a harsher punishment while the guy who allowed it is sympathetic is perplexing.
You're not wrong about Hinch. He didn't set it up and didn't participate. He was simply a coward. That is why I said sympathetic. Maybe the word I should have used is pathetic, instead.
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It's cute that amyone thinks athletes avoid reporters by "writing" for the Players Tribune.
Or that anyone sees the Players Tribune as anything more than a PR firm.
Or that anyone, you know, reads it.
And Cheeks understanding of how this story broke is painfully inaccurate, it seems. He should ask his friends at the Athletic.
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You're not wrong about Hinch. He didn't set it up and didn't participate. He was simply a coward. That is why I said sympathetic. Maybe the word I should have used is pathetic, instead.
Speaking of a coward, how about Luhnow's statement. What a joke.
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Source for the 100’s of millions. Not value inflation, but where is it that you are sourcing he made 100’s of millions off the World Series....would like to see this.
The value of the franchise increased by in the 3 years that they cheated. The biggest increase to their value in their history was the first year that they are known to have cheated.
Manfred works for Crane. If he would have really lowered the boom, he would not have his job for long.
Success on the field leads to greater demand for tickets and other revenue streams within a stadium and also increases the value of broadcast rights and sponsorships.
If you asked every other owner if they would trade 4 draft picks & $5 mil for a much greater chance to win a championship and to improve the value of the franchise by $700 million, I think they would all make the deal.
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Jeff Passan was on LeBatard today and it was a great segment. I agreed with what Passan said, MLB knew this was going on and was hoping it would have just gone away on its own. Fiers will probably have real trouble in MLB moving forward. Also, there’s zero deterrent to players still trying some form of this, the reward versus risk is overwhelmingly still in the player’s favor.
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Lifetime bans for all of them: Luhnow, Hinch, Beltran, Cora. If possible, "official" asterisk on the WS win.
Too harsh.
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Lifetime bans for all of them: Luhnow, Hinch, Beltran, Cora. If possible, "official" asterisk on the WS win.
And give me back my money I lost in Vegas.
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Astros corruption uncovered by reporters, of course.
Keep pretending your profession hasn't become an absolute joke
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It's cute that amyone thinks athletes avoid reporters by "writing" for the Players Tribune.
Or that anyone sees the Players Tribune as anything more than a PR firm.
Or that anyone, you know, reads it.
And Cheeks understanding of how this story broke is painfully inaccurate, it seems. He should ask his friends at the Athletic.
Players Tribune is a PR firm? Interesting. One of the bigger stories of last year came from them.
At any rate, players can go directly to the fans without the media. Someone else has done that very effectively and it roils some folks a ton. LOL
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The value of the franchise increased by in the 3 years that they cheated. The biggest increase to their value in their history was the first year that they are known to have cheated.
Manfred works for Crane. If he would have really lowered the boom, he would not have his job for long.
Success on the field leads to greater demand for tickets and other revenue streams within a stadium and also increases the value of broadcast rights and sponsorships.
If you asked every other owner if they would trade 4 draft picks & $5 mil for a much greater chance to win a championship and to improve the value of the franchise by $700 million, I think they would all make the deal.
Yes, the “value”, which is much different that what you said. Paper value is great, but unless you sell you don’t realize the gains. That’s why I specifically asked the question. Incidentally the value of other franchises also grew immensely the last few years.
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Jeff Passan was on LeBatard today and it was a great segment. I agreed with what Passan said, MLB knew this was going on and was hoping it would have just gone away on its own. Fiers will probably have real trouble in MLB moving forward. Also, there’s zero deterrent to players still trying some form of this, the reward versus risk is overwhelmingly still in the player’s favor.
What I want to know is if stealing signs from a base runner at second base is still ok? 8-)
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They didn't get pitching, but they got an impact player. Hell of a move.
And on the same day that they signed Sano to a three year deal! It really shows the value they think they're getting on the Donaldson deal that they made both moves with another year of Nelson Cruz at $12M. Which, based on last year's production, is a contract they will almost surely see surplus value on.
I assume this move forecasts shifting Sano to 1B. Assuming he's passable there, with the relative weakness of 1B vs 3B right now, there's value written all over these deals for the Twins.
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I give the Twins a lot of credit for opening the purse; that's a big contract for someone that age with injury problems. I sincerely hope it works out for Minnesota; I've always found it easy to root for them.
Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
Donaldson is 34. His deal with #MNTwins is second-largest for a player 33 or older. Only one larger: Kevin Brown’s 7-year, $105M deal with the #Dodgers from 1998.
Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
The #Twins currently have a $121.8 million payroll for their 20 signed players, the largest in the AL Central.
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I give the Twins a lot of credit for opening the purse; that's a big contract for someone that age with injury problems. I sincerely hope it works out for Minnesota; I've always found it easy to root for them.
Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
Donaldson is 34. His deal with #MNTwins is second-largest for a player 33 or older. Only one larger: Kevin Brown’s 7-year, $105M deal with the #Dodgers from 1998.
I give Donaldson and his agent credit. Taking 1 year (granted nice sized deals, but still) as he worked through injuries and decreased production. Heck of a comeback.
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BOMBA SEASON
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It's cute that amyone thinks athletes avoid reporters by "writing" for the Players Tribune.
Or that anyone sees the Players Tribune as anything more than a PR firm.
Or that anyone, you know, reads it.
And Cheeks understanding of how this story broke is painfully inaccurate, it seems. He should ask his friends at the Athletic.
I read things in the players tribune much more frequently that in SI, the athletic, etc.
Yes its ghost written. But the ghost writers do a good job of keeping the POV and tone of the athlete.
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Beltran gowne
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mets-fire-manager-carlos-beltran-wake-astros-sign-stealing-scandal-n1116271
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This has gotten GNARLY today. The garbage cans were bad enough. But the buzzers are another level entirely. Penalties could get intense. I wonder how the MLBPA navigates this.
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Altuve probably just didn't want to get his pennant-winning jersey ripped or ruined in a Gatorade bath,
...BUT...
the idea that Altuve was afraid his buzzer/wire under his jersey would be exposed in a game-winning celebration is one of my favorite sports conspiracies ever.
https://www.12up.com/posts/jose-altuve-dont-rip-my-shirt-off-aroldis-champman-walk-off-hr-alcs-astros-yankees-01dyqxcze7n0 (https://www.12up.com/posts/jose-altuve-dont-rip-my-shirt-off-aroldis-champman-walk-off-hr-alcs-astros-yankees-01dyqxcze7n0)
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I 100% believe Altuve (and Bregman) had some type of electronic device under their jersey. The Altuve video is damning and makes no sense other wise for his reaction. You hit a walk off homer to send your team to the World Series and all you can think of is "don't rip off my jersey"? The only plausible explanation is you're hiding something, because in that moment, it's hard to imagine that's the first thing on your mind.
I'm at the point where I would make the Astros take down any and all banners from 2017-2019, suspend Altuve (and if it's true about Bregman) for two years each. Hell, make everyone give their WS rings back while you're at it.
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Some of these "Fiers is a snitch!!!!" takes are something.
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Beltran's "niece's" tweet is really damning. She broke the news a week before he got the Mets job, and she posted on Twitter two days ago that Beltran was getting fired. All of her tweets were spot on. She's made her account private today.
She flat out claims Altuve and Bregman are wearing buzzers on their right shoulders to know what pitch is coming. She also claims she has pictures too.
I think the more this gets dug into, it's going to get even worse.
Edit: Some people believe this Twitter account is a burner account from someone in the Astros organization for what it's worth.
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Beltran's "niece's" tweet is really damning. She broke the news a week before he got the Mets job, and she posted on Twitter two days ago that Beltran was getting fired. All of her tweets were spot on. She's made her account private today.
She flat out claims Altuve and Bregman are wearing buzzers on their right shoulders to know what pitch is coming. She also claims she has pictures too.
I think the more this gets dug into, it's going to get even worse.
Edit: Some people believe this Twitter account is a burner account from someone in the Astros organization for what it's worth.
FWIW ... Beltran's family says that the person claiming to be his niece is not related to the family in any way.
Which isn't to say what's being tweeted isn't true ... just that it's a fake profile.
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FWIW ... Beltran's family says that the person claiming to be his niece is not related to the family in any way.
Which isn't to say what's being tweeted isn't true ... just that it's a fake profile.
Yeah, I edited my post to say it's being speculated it's a burner account, which makes sense. This account though has gotten things right thus far in regards to breaking the Beltran hiring/firing before both were announced by other media outlets though.
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The #5 pitcher on my American Legion team didn’t see much action - but he was valuable as a first base coach. When the opposing catcher was careless (happened fairly regularly) he was a first class sign stealer. He constantly chattered, but when he used your first name a fastball was coming. Last name meant an off speed pitch. We weren’t facing Justin Verlander, but I can tell you that your confidence soars (as does your OPS) when you know what’s coming.
I never considered taking advantage of an opponent’s carelessness cheating - to me it’s high IQ baseball. This stuff, though, is awful. It will be interesting to see how many (if any) players are punished.
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Yeah, I edited my post to say it's being speculated it's a burner account, which makes sense. This account though has gotten things right thus far in regards to breaking the Beltran hiring/firing before both were announced by other media outlets though.
Adding to the growing grains of salt pile, Trevor Bauer followed up on twitter to confirm he has heard similar things about Altuve and Bregman.
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Jomboy also says he has 5 independent sources who have mentioned the buzzers.
Altuve should lose his MVP award if true.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EObWvkdVUAATFHJ?format=jpg)
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Jomboy also says he has 5 independent sources who have mentioned the buzzers.
Altuve should lose his MVP award if true.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EObWvkdVUAATFHJ?format=jpg)
I know I'm playing internet detective here, but what's interesting to me about this is that it's the right shoulder. What I mean is when he's hitting, the odds of him getting plunked in the right shoulder are basically nil. It would make sense if you're going to put some type of device on that the right shoulder would be the best spot for it.
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Jomboy also says he has 5 independent sources who have mentioned the buzzers.
Altuve should lose his MVP award if true.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EObWvkdVUAATFHJ?format=jpg)
OK, but not until all the juicers lose theirs.
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nm
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Jomboy also says he has 5 independent sources who have mentioned the buzzers.
Altuve should lose his MVP award if true.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EObWvkdVUAATFHJ?format=jpg)
\
I heard this speculated almost immediately as a sign stealing device.
https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1188255881814773766
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Beltran's "niece's" tweet is really damning. She broke the news a week before he got the Mets job, and she posted on Twitter two days ago that Beltran was getting fired. All of her tweets were spot on. She's made her account private today.
She flat out claims Altuve and Bregman are wearing buzzers on their right shoulders to know what pitch is coming. She also claims she has pictures too.
I think the more this gets dug into, it's going to get even worse.
Edit: Some people believe this Twitter account is a burner account from someone in the Astros organization for what it's worth.
There was speculation that Taubman went to Reddit almost immediately after his firing and aired all the specifics of the scandal under some burner account. That is where I first heard the rumor the Astros were using buzzers.
It was also apparently pretty well known that the Astros were up to no good, because even with no one on base the Nats were using multiple signs and reportedly changing the signs almost every batter.
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Et tu, Orbit?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOcCzP1WkAgm6zy.jpg)
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\
I heard this speculated almost immediately as a sign stealing device.
https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1188255881814773766
Would be pretty funny if it was a reflective sticker and he was just watching the catcher’s signs for himself.
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This has gotten GNARLY today. The garbage cans were bad enough. But the buzzers are another level entirely. Penalties could get intense. I wonder how the MLBPA navigates this.
This could get a lot worse. While it seems certain the Red Sox are screwed, (and I think should have harsher penalties as a repeat offender) I remember the Red Sox at the time, saying they were trying to keep up with the Yankees, who the prior season, employed Carlos Beltran.
Beltran was also a special advisor to the Yanks last season, and in an interview after the London series, Cora alluded to him as their biggest free agent acquisition --- literally winking while he said it--- then said they were paying attention to all the details and even said devices in his interview.
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Et tu, Orbit?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOcCzP1WkAgm6zy.jpg)
Hahaha. OK, that's funny.
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Et tu, Orbit?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EOcCzP1WkAgm6zy.jpg)
“Houston, we have a problem...”
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FWIW ... Beltran's family says that the person claiming to be his niece is not related to the family in any way.
Which isn't to say what's being tweeted isn't true ... just that it's a fake profile.
A rumor I read is that it wasn't a family member but rather a current MLB player. The account is gone now.
I asked a coworker who played in the minors for a few years0 what was worse, steroids (he played with the Giambi brothers) or the sign stealing. No doubt, the sign stealing. With roids (he did not take them, which may have caused him not to make the Show) you still have to hit the ball or throw it past the hitter (and it's probable that both the hitter and pitcher were on roids). With sign-stealing you know what pitch is coming and only one side is getting the advantage.
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Do Stearns and Craig now get chit canned too, hey?
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Do Stearns and Craig now get chit canned too, hey?
Nothing to see there, hey?
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/c0cb0r/yelichs_home_vs_away_stats_are_insane_which/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
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I saw on Twitter a Boras quote that Altuve not wanting his jersey ripped off is because he’s shy. That’s hilarious.
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Nothing to see there, hey?
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/c0cb0r/yelichs_home_vs_away_stats_are_insane_which/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Must’ve started stealing signs on the road after 60 games, ai’na? Over 1.000 OPS on the road over the course of the entire season is decent I think.
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Jomboy also says he has 5 independent sources who have mentioned the buzzers.
Altuve should lose his MVP award if true.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EObWvkdVUAATFHJ?format=jpg)
This happens to me all the time when I don't iron my jersey
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(https://science.nasa.gov/files/science-red/s3fs-public/styles/large/public/mnt/medialibrary/2001/08/28/ast24may_1_resources/pio_med.gif?itok=44aHpUYR)
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Mike Trout on HGH?
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I saw on Twitter a Boras quote that Altuve not wanting his jersey ripped off is because he’s shy. That’s hilarious.
Its a hell of a world where the occam's razor explanation is that a major league baseball team systematically cheated including enabling its players to use buzzing devices hidden under their jerseys as part of a sign stealing scheme that included at least three different parties positioned strategically around the stadium. But I think thats where we are.
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Mike Trout on HGH?
FWIW, thats been floating around for awhile. I heard it from a former coworker of mine whose brother is an 8 year MLB vet
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We finally fully know what "the Cardinal Way" means. It is just a synonym for cheating.
1993 AL Cy Young winner Jack McDowell alleged in a radio appearance Friday morning that the White Sox had an illegal sign-stealing operation at old Comiskey Park in the late 1980s, and that Hall of Fame manager Tony La Russa was the instigator of the scheme.
Speaking to WFNZ-AM in Charlotte, where he serves as baseball coach for Queens University, McDowell said the White Sox had a camera zoomed in on opposing catchers and a light in an outfield Gatorade sign that could be controlled from the manager's office and would presumably let hitters know which pitches were coming.
Larussa was one of the great cheaters in baseball history - all the while preaching and lecturing other teams on how to play the game properly. I have no doubt that Larussa would actually pull down McGwire's pants to make it easier to inject himself with steroids.
The HoF needs to either remove Larussa or put an explanation on his plaque that he is only in Cooperstown because he cheated better than anyone else.
The Cardinal Way. Finally fully exposed.
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We finally fully know what "the Cardinal Way" means. It is just a synonym for cheating.
1993 AL Cy Young winner Jack McDowell alleged in a radio appearance Friday morning that the White Sox had an illegal sign-stealing operation at old Comiskey Park in the late 1980s, and that Hall of Fame manager Tony La Russa was the instigator of the scheme.
Speaking to WFNZ-AM in Charlotte, where he serves as baseball coach for Queens University, McDowell said the White Sox had a camera zoomed in on opposing catchers and a light in an outfield Gatorade sign that could be controlled from the manager's office and would presumably let hitters know which pitches were coming.
Larussa was one of the great cheaters in baseball history - all the while preaching and lecturing other teams on how to play the game properly. I have no doubt that Larussa would actually pull down McGwire's pants to make it easier to inject himself with steroids.
The HoF needs to either remove Larussa or put an explanation on his plaque that he is only in Cooperstown because he cheated better than anyone else.
The Cardinal Way. Finally fully exposed.
Don't know whether McDowell is right or wrong, but it's worth noting that he never played for Tony LaRussa. He was fired a year before McDowell was even drafted by the White Sox.
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Yeah. I hate LaRussa, and really like Black Jack McDowell, (the pitcher, not necessarily the guitarist). However, the timeline doesn't really match up.
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Yeah. I hate LaRussa, and really like Black Jack McDowell, (the pitcher, not necessarily the guitarist). However, the timeline doesn't really match up.
Why not? He didn't say "La Russa taught me this". He said that the Sox in the 80s had a sign stealing gambit that was started/created/instigated by La Russa. So they were either still using it for a season or two after La Russa left, or players on the team told him about it. Thats entirely plausible and not even remotely incongruous. Even moreso that he didn't play for La Russa and would have no need to protect him and/or a bone to pick with him.
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Why not? He didn't say "La Russa taught me this". He said that the Sox in the 80s had a sign stealing gambit that was started/created/instigated by La Russa. So they were either still using it for a season or two after La Russa left, or players on the team told him about it. Thats entirely plausible and not even remotely incongruous. Even moreso that he didn't play for La Russa and would have no need to protect him and/or a bone to pick with him.
As I said, McDowell could be right, but ultimately he'd have zero firsthand knowledge of this.
Jockey's suggestion that LaRussa be banned from the HOF because of hearsay remarks about sign-stealing scheme more than 30 years ago, coming from a player he never managed, seems a bit of a stretch.
I'm not a fan of LaRussa, but neither am I fan of ruining a person's reputation and/or punishing him/her based on secondhand (at best) remarks.
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I wonder how much the implementation of replay reviews in baseball led to team's cheating. Cora probably saw that stupid "replay room" they get to go in to decide if they should challenge and thought, "I can use this to my advantage." It was probably bound to happen eventually.
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Honestly, this is all the MLBs fault.
It’s all fun and games until too many people get caught and then it’s damage control.
Same crap happened in the steroids era. MLB turned a blind eye towards it while it was convenient for them Sosa vs. McGuire, Clemens throwing gas, etc. but as soon as the stories came out it’s the players fault and they’re the ones punished with unofficial bans to the hall of fame and lengthy suspensions.
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I wonder how much the implementation of replay reviews in baseball led to team's cheating. Cora probably saw that stupid "replay room" they get to go in to decide if they should challenge and thought, "I can use this to my advantage." It was probably bound to happen eventually.
It wasn't coming from the team's replay room. They literally set up a monitor on a table just down the tunnel from the dugout where they watched a camera they had installed in center field and banged on a trash can from there.
https://twitter.com/YankeeReport_/status/1196192912998117376?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1196192912998117376&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.espn.com%2F
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I imagine this is a sentiment shared by a lot of guys around the league...
https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1218306735624028162
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Verlander is one of my favorite players ever, but he is going to get some tricky questions this year asking him to reconcile his public statements about different kinds of cheating and what went on with Astro's.
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I imagine this is a sentiment shared by a lot of guys around the league...
https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1218306735624028162
every Astros player is going to be thrown at this season and nobody is going to blame the pitchers for doing it.
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Mike Trout on HGH?
LOL
Brossius backtracked that so fast today....I'm hoping a major lawsuit is about to hit him in the ass.
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At least with steroids, pitcher and batter could partake. Probably more fair across the board
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LOL
Brossius backtracked that so fast today....I'm hoping a major lawsuit is about to hit him in the ass.
He backtracked and likely didn't do much harm. No grounds for a suit.
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He was forced to backtrack, MLB had to come out and say it was BS, Yahoo picked it up on their front page before the backtrack and others believe this crap.....I hope he sues his ass. Let a judge decide if it has merit. It was a very serious charge and deserves to be treated as such.
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No damages caused. No merit to the suit.
Glad you're on the side of frivolous lawsuits now.
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Verlander is one of my favorite players ever, but he is going to get some tricky questions this year asking him to reconcile his public statements about different kinds of cheating and what went on with Astro's.
He'll just ban any reporter who asks those "tricky questions."
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He was forced to backtrack, MLB had to come out and say it was BS, Yahoo picked it up on their front page before the backtrack and others believe this crap.....I hope he sues his ass. Let a judge decide if it has merit. It was a very serious charge and deserves to be treated as such.
only if Trout is squeaky clean. Discovery is a B%tch.
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He was forced to backtrack, MLB had to come out and say it was BS, Yahoo picked it up on their front page before the backtrack and others believe this crap.....I hope he sues his ass. Let a judge decide if it has merit. It was a very serious charge and deserves to be treated as such.
All the reasons above are why Trout would have little success with a defamation suit. Add to it the fact he's a public figure, and he has virtually no chance of winning.
But if he wants to try and make a bunch of rich lawyers richer, he's free to do so.
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only if Trout is squeaky clean. Discovery is a B%tch.
Yup...go for it...it’s this kind of crap right here why you do it to shut aholes up
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All the reasons above are why Trout would have little success with a defamation suit. Add to it the fact he's a public figure, and he has virtually no chance of winning.
But if he wants to try and make a bunch of rich lawyers richer, he's free to do so.
Which is exactly why so many people want these laws changed because people go off with claims and rarely get punished for it. REFORM
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Which is exactly why so many people want these laws changed because people go off with claims and rarely get punished for it. REFORM
#fakenews
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#fakenews
https://www.wsj.com/articles/america-needs-stronger-laws-against-defamation-11569881386
Nope
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Which is exactly why so many people want these laws changed because people go off with claims and rarely get punished for it. REFORM
Cheeks wants to make it easier to sue in civil courts - when it benefits rich, white, men.
Shocking!
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Which is exactly why so many people want these laws changed because people go off with claims and rarely get punished for it. REFORM
"So many people" want a lot of laws changed.
And?
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Yup...go for it...it’s this kind of crap right here why you do it to shut aholes up
You know Trout is clean? I’d like to think he is, but I’m past the point in believing anyone is clean beyond a shadow of a doubt. Even my favorite athletes.
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/america-needs-stronger-laws-against-defamation-11569881386
Nope
1. It's #fakenews because you have no idea how defamation law works.
2. It's #fakenews because there aren't "so many" people that want to change federal law because someone misstated something about Mike Trout
3. It's #fakenews because a letter to the editor published by the WSJ is hardly evidence of "So many" people wanting something. Truth is, I'm aware of no pending federal legislation that would change libel/defamation law ... despite "so many" people demanding it.
(side note: fun how quickly Cheeks is willing to cite the media when it suits him)
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1. It's #fakenews because you have no idea how defamation law works.
2. It's #fakenews because there aren't "so many" people that want to change federal law because someone misstated something about Mike Trout
3. It's #fakenews because a letter to the editor published by the WSJ is hardly evidence of "So many" people wanting something. Truth is, I'm aware of no pending federal legislation that would change libel/defamation law ... despite "so many" people demanding it.
(side note: fun how quickly Cheeks is willing to cite the media when it suits him)
It was one example, do you really think it is the only example? Lol.
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It was one example, do you really think it is the only example? Lol.
Move to England. Enjoy their loose defamation laws for a bit.
Why my countrymen are so eager to destroy the 1st amendment to defend people more powerful than they will ever be, I will never understand.
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Carlos Beltran's "niece" appears to be a internet troll Incarcerated Bob.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/did-this-notorious-troll-dupe-mlb-fans-and-players-into-believing-conspiracies-about-astros-sign-stealing?ref=home
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Carlos Beltran's "niece" appears to be a internet troll Incarcerated Bob.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/did-this-notorious-troll-dupe-mlb-fans-and-players-into-believing-conspiracies-about-astros-sign-stealing?ref=home
ICB is one of the biggest douchebags in that section of the world. Between his NYC sports nonsense and his gambling stuff, he's the absolute worst. Epitome of an internet tough guy posturing from a crapty apartment in the outer boroughs
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Carlos Beltran's "niece" appears to be a internet troll Incarcerated Bob.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/did-this-notorious-troll-dupe-mlb-fans-and-players-into-believing-conspiracies-about-astros-sign-stealing?ref=home
I am going to grab that Scoop moniker before Cheeks does.
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Move to England. Enjoy their loose defamation laws for a bit.
Why my countrymen are so eager to destroy the 1st amendment to defend people more powerful than they will ever be, I will never understand.
Two words.
Cult. Ignorance.
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Move to England. Enjoy their loose defamation laws for a bit.
Why my countrymen are so eager to destroy the 1st amendment to defend people more powerful than they will ever be, I will never understand.
I want to be like Europe in so many ways.....
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I want to be like Europe in so many ways.....
In actual baseball stuff... the Nolan Arenado/ Rockies relationship seems to be at a breaking point. This could get interesting.
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In actual baseball stuff... the Nolan Arenado/ Rockies relationship seems to be at a breaking point. This could get interesting.
Hmmmmm. Who could use a 3B and barely spent in FA this year?
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Hmmmmm. Who could use a 3B and barely spent in FA this year?
I guess never say never, but doesn't feel remotely likely. He's worth it, but that opt out looms large.
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I guess never say never, but doesn't feel remotely likely. He's worth it, but that opt out looms large.
I agree on the opt out.
I'm typically as pro-player a guy as you will find, but this is one of the rare cases where I'm on the team's side. I don't think players appreciate how much these huge deals with opt-outs hamstring their teams. Generally, I think all teams should spend more, so I get Arenado's frustration generally, but the facts here make him look petulant. The Rockies had the 11th highest payroll in baseball last year, so its not like they refuse to spend. And most important, he signed a deal literally one year ago for $260M with a player opt out 3 years later (now 2 - end of 2021).
If you're the Jeff Bridich, what the hell are you supposed to do with that? You're looking at free agents, and you're not sure if your best player will be around in two years, or if the 4th largest AAV in baseball will be disappearing off your books. It really undermines your ability to sign FAs to long term deals, or to plan effectively using your farm system. Arenado leaving is a franchise altering thing, and he's sort of doomed his team to picking through 1 and 2 year FA contracts. To turn around and complain about that is lame. Good on him if that's the deal he wants, I don't begrudge him that at all, but its completely foreseeable that contract would negatively impact his team's ability to plan around him.
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Derek Jeter and Larry Walker are your 2020 Hall of Fame inductees.
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Derek Jeter and Larry Walker are your 2020 Hall of Fame inductees.
I can't wait to find out who is the only voter to not vote for Jeter.
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I can't wait to find out who is the only voter to not vote for Jeter.
The next five were:
Curt Schilling (70 percent)
Roger Clemens (61 percent)
Barry Bonds (60.7 percent)
Omar Vizquel (52.6 percent)
Scott Rolen (35.3 percent)
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I can't wait to find out who is the only voter to not vote for Jeter.
It would be funny if it was the same guy who voted for JJ Putz
COMPLETE VOTING TOTALS
Scott Rolen: 140 (35.3)
Billy Wagner: 126 (31.7)
Gary Sheffield: 121 (30.5)
Todd Helton: 116 (29.2)
Manny Ramírez: 112 (28.2)
Jeff Kent 109: (27.5)
Andruw Jones: 77 (19.4)
Sammy Sosa: 55 (13.9)
Andy Pettitte: 45 (11.3)
Bobby Abreu: 22 (5.5)
Paul Konerko: 10 (2.5)
Jason Giambi: 6 (1.5)
Alfonso Soriano: 6 (1.5)
Eric Chávez: 2 (0.5)
Cliff Lee: 2 (0.5)
Adam Dunn: 1 (0.3)
Brad Penny: 1 (0.3)
Raúl Ibañez: 1 (0.3)
J.J. Putz: 1 (0.3)
Josh Beckett, Heath Bell, Chone Figgins, Rafael Furcal, Carlos Peña, Brian Roberts, José Valverde: 0
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I hope the Braves sign the most underrated hitter in every FA class to a monster 1 yr deal every offseason. Its fun.
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Good for Larry Walker, well earned.
Ozuna to Braves.
Ozuna wanted to go back to St. Louis but the Cardinals wanted to move on. The Cardinals made the one year qualifying offer to get the draft pick. We'll see how that works out for both.
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I can't wait to find out who is the only voter to not vote for Jeter.
I want to shake his hand
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I want to shake his hand
Amen!!! Who the h3ll are Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter?
Ruth, Wagner, Young, Johnson, Williams, Cobb, Mays, Aaron, etc., weren't worthy of unanimous selection, but Rivera was? And Jeter would have been if not for one brave soul?
Give me a break.
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Amen!!! Who the h3ll are Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter?
Ruth, Wagner, Young, Johnson, Williams, Cobb, Mays, Aaron, etc., weren't worthy of unanimous selection, but Rivera was? And Jeter would have been if not for one brave soul?
Give me a break.
I'm not sure how people being stupid in the past is a reason to be stupid in the present.
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I'm not sure how people being stupid in the past is a reason to be stupid in the present.
Simply put, a guy who is certainly not even in the top 50, and probably not in the top 100 all-time, doesn't deserve unanimous selection.
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I hope the Braves sign the most underrated hitter in every FA class to a monster 1 yr deal every offseason. Its fun.
A one year deal is good for the Braves, but I certainly wouldn't call Ozuna the most underrated hitter in free agency.
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I can't wait to find out who is the only voter to not vote for Jeter.
82?
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I can't wait to find out who is the only voter to not vote for Jeter.
I’m kind of glad. He’s definitely a HOFer, but there were guys better than him that got nowhere close to 100%.
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There's a reason a lot of non-Yankees fans hate Derek Jeter and it has nothing to do with him. It is the endless need by the sports media to hold him up as some icon of goodness. The scroll during our game on FS1 had "Yankees legend Derek Jeter, OF Larry Walker voted into Hall of Fame."
Tower, FYI, Lou Whitaker has a higher career WAR than Derek Jeter. For you Cubs/Brewers fans, Joe Posnanski is doing a phenomenal series on the top 100 baseball players of all time on The Athletic, and Ernie Banks arrived today at no. 65, Robin Yount was no. 66 and Derek Jeter was no. 79.
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A one year deal is good for the Braves, but I certainly wouldn't call Ozuna the most underrated hitter in free agency.
You're right most underrated is probably overstated. I just meant that after Donaldson last year, they seem to be making a habit of swooping in for solid, veteran hitters who haven't been able to find the long term deal they're looking for. Assuming Ozuna does Ozuna things, its been a nice low-risk strategy for them.
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There's a reason a lot of non-Yankees fans hate Derek Jeter and it has nothing to do with him. It is the endless need by the sports media to hold him up as some icon of goodness. The scroll during our game on FS1 had "Yankees legend Derek Jeter, OF Larry Walker voted into Hall of Fame."
Tower, FYI, Lou Whitaker has a higher career WAR than Derek Jeter. For you Cubs/Brewers fans, Joe Posnanski is doing a phenomenal series on the top 100 baseball players of all time on The Athletic, and Ernie Banks arrived today at no. 65, Robin Yount was no. 66 and Derek Jeter was no. 79.
Bingo. They also have managed to turn 2 plays, the flip at home and the "dive" into the stands (which was probably unnecessary and he could have pulled up) into this idea that he was an exceptional defender, when all of the metrics point him to not being just average, but actually a pretty poor defensive shortstop. And there is just AGGRESSIVE pearl clutching if you could dare to speak ill of St Jeter.
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Bingo. They also have managed to turn 2 plays, the flip at home and the "dive" into the stands (which was probably unnecessary and he could have pulled up) into this idea that he was an exceptional defender, when all of the metrics point him to not being just average, but actually a pretty poor defensive shortstop. And there is just AGGRESSIVE pearl clutching if you could dare to speak ill of St Jeter.
I remember Alexi Ramirez should've won the GG in '10. I'm too lazy to look it up, but assume another defender got robbed in (most? all?) of Jeter's four remaining Gold Glove seasons.
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I’m kind of glad. He’s definitely a HOFer, but there were guys better than him that got nowhere close to 100%.
Ok that's fair, but what is there any reason, other than being the percentage police, to not include Derek Jeter on a HOF ballot?
I can't think of a legit baseball reason.
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Ok that's fair, but what is there any reason, other than being the percentage police, to not include Derek Jeter on a HOF ballot?
I can't think of a legit baseball reason.
No. But people didn't vote for Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, Ted Williams, etc. Frankly, Mariano Rivera was a weird choice to be the first unanimous selection, since he is in the lowest quartile of HOFers in WAR due to his role.
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The amount of handwringing that is going to occur as Schilling, Bonds and Clemens (among others, but let's be real - Sosa and McGuire are never getting in) is going to be something to behold. Especially since are no blue-chip first timers next year.
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I can't think of a legit baseball reason.
I remember a writer who left Griffey off claiming that there were 10, other, worthy candidates. Knowing Junior was going to make in anyway, he did not "waste" one of his limited picks on a sure-thing.
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No. But people didn't vote for Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, Ted Williams, etc. Frankly, Mariano Rivera was a weird choice to be the first unanimous selection, since he is in the lowest quartile of HOFers in WAR due to his role.
Right, but as buck correctly stated earlier, bad voting decisions of the past doesn't justify bad voting decisions of the present.
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Right, but as buck correctly stated earlier, bad voting decisions of the past doesn't justify bad voting decisions of the present.
I'd have voted for Rivera, just a weird guy to be the first unanimous, since being a closer could be a deal breaker for some voters in the same way that being a DH might be. I can understand not voting for closers more than I can understand not voting for DHs.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1698826/major-league-baseball-gave-astros-players-full-immunity-in-exchange-for-the-full-story-of-the-cheating-scandal
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I'd have voted for Rivera, just a weird guy to be the first unanimous, since being a closer could be a deal breaker for some voters in the same way that being a DH might be. I can understand not voting for closers more than I can understand not voting for DHs.
I'm not speaking to Rivera in particular, but rather the argument out there that "Since Babe Ruth didn't get 100%, neither should (insert name here)."
Also hate the idea that a giy doesn't deserve to be elected on first ballot/second ballot, etc. A guy is either a HOFer or not. The notion that a guy is unworthy one year but totally worthy five years later is ridiculous.
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I'm not speaking to Rivera in particular, but rather the argument out there that "Since Babe Ruth didn't get 100%, neither should (insert name here)."
Also hate the idea that a giy doesn't deserve to be elected on first ballot/second ballot, etc. A guy is either a HOFer or not. The notion that a guy is unworthy one year but totally worthy five years later is ridiculous.
I agree with that, especially since there is a unanimous selection now.
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82?
Sadly, last year was my final vote. Once writers haven't actively covered baseball for 10 years, even if we are lifetime BBWAA cardholders, that person no longer receives a ballot. Kind of a subtle ageism, but I get it -- they want people who really closely follow the game to vote, and although I do, some oldsters probably don't.
I was never for denying a guy just because he was a first-ballot candidate. Either you're a HoFer or not, and I voted for many, many first-ballot guys over the years. For the record, I would have voted for Jeter, I did vote for Rivera (obviously), and I never voted for Larry Walker.
Only a couple of times in my 23 years as a HoF voter did I choose a guy after having not done so earlier, and on both occasions some of the advanced-stat people that I respect made such compelling arguments that I felt I had overlooked significant data. Those players were Tim Raines and Edgar Martinez. It's hard for me to fathom that hundreds upon hundreds of voters who didn't choose Walker for years and years suddenly decided that he had gotten better or something. But I congratulate him; he certainly was a fine ballplayer.
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Sadly, last year was my final vote. Once writers haven't actively covered baseball for 10 years, even if we are lifetime BBWAA cardholders, that person no longer receives a ballot. Kind of a subtle ageism, but I get it -- they want people who really closely follow the game to vote, and although I do, some oldsters probably don't.
I was never for denying a guy just because he was a first-ballot candidate. Either you're a HoFer or not, and I voted for many, many first-ballot guys over the years. For the record, I would have voted for Jeter, I did vote for Rivera (obviously), and I never voted for Larry Walker.
Only a couple of times in my 23 years as a HoF voter did I choose a guy after having not done so earlier, and on both occasions some of the advanced-stat people that I respect made such compelling arguments that I felt I had overlooked significant data. Those players were Tim Raines and Edgar Martinez. It's hard for me to fathom that hundreds upon hundreds of voters who didn't choose Walker for years and years suddenly decided that he had gotten better or something. But I congratulate him; he certainly was a fine ballplayer.
MU82, I am quite envious that you were able to vote for the HOF for so many years. Were there any guys you championed (or at least were adamant about that they belonged) that didn't make it? How about the reverse, guys you thought had no business being elected by the writers but who were? I'm not talking about the Veteran's committees, who are all over the place with their inductions.
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Completely off the subject, and I'm not doing this to name drop or impress or anything remotely close to that. My family has been involved with Michael Kopech and his charitable efforts, and we hung out with Michael and his wife Vanessa Morgan (she's an actress on Riverdale). Kopech grew his hair out for months, and today my son helped cut his hair in an effort to raise awareness for pediatric cancer and Ronald McDonald House.
Anyway, what was interesting in talking to Michael and Vanessa was their "normal" life stresses, and not knowing if Michael is going to be on the big league roster to start the year. Trying to figure that out and balance where to live, how to get their 5 dogs to Chicago, finding a place that is dog friendly to live, affording houses in both Phoenix where they live now and buying a place in Chicago. I realize he's a professional athlete and she's an actress, but it was really interesting how genuinely anxious and a level of stress in how they talked about it and trying to become a stable family. I realize they have all kinds of levels of access and luxury that most of us will never know, I think sometimes I forget these guys are normal human beings who have lives.
This may have been a totally pointless post, but Kopech is a legit genuine dude.
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Completely off the subject, and I'm not doing this to name drop or impress or anything remotely close to that. My family has been involved with Michael Kopech and his charitable efforts, and we hung out with Michael and his wife Vanessa Morgan (she's an actress on Riverdale). Kopech grew his hair out for months, and today my son helped cut his hair in an effort to raise awareness for pediatric cancer and Ronald McDonald House.
Anyway, what was interesting in talking to Michael and Vanessa was their "normal" life stresses, and not knowing if Michael is going to be on the big league roster to start the year. Trying to figure that out and balance where to live, how to get their 5 dogs to Chicago, finding a place that is dog friendly to live, affording houses in both Phoenix where they live now and buying a place in Chicago. I realize he's a professional athlete and she's an actress, but it was really interesting how genuinely anxious and a level of stress in how they talked about it and trying to become a stable family. I realize they have all kinds of levels of access and luxury that most of us will never know, I think sometimes I forget these guys are normal human beings who have lives.
This may have been a totally pointless post, but Kopech is a legit genuine dude.
Very cool.
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Completely off the subject, and I'm not doing this to name drop or impress or anything remotely close to that. My family has been involved with Michael Kopech and his charitable efforts, and we hung out with Michael and his wife Vanessa Morgan (she's an actress on Riverdale). Kopech grew his hair out for months, and today my son helped cut his hair in an effort to raise awareness for pediatric cancer and Ronald McDonald House.
Anyway, what was interesting in talking to Michael and Vanessa was their "normal" life stresses, and not knowing if Michael is going to be on the big league roster to start the year. Trying to figure that out and balance where to live, how to get their 5 dogs to Chicago, finding a place that is dog friendly to live, affording houses in both Phoenix where they live now and buying a place in Chicago. I realize he's a professional athlete and she's an actress, but it was really interesting how genuinely anxious and a level of stress in how they talked about it and trying to become a stable family. I realize they have all kinds of levels of access and luxury that most of us will never know, I think sometimes I forget these guys are normal human beings who have lives.
This may have been a totally pointless post, but Kopech is a legit genuine dude.
Thats awesome. Glad to hear he's a solid dude. Glad he got free of the Real Housewives-realm drama when he was still basically a kid and into something legit.
Also, so true about balancing and "affording" life. I have no clue to her earning status, but I can think of two similar stories, especially at that age. He had a nice bonus, but he's still on the pre-arb pay scale, he's not filthy rich yet, when you're talking all the random fees and expenses, not to mention 2 residences.
In my first few years out of college, I was good friends with a guy whose best friend from childhood played in the NFL. But we're talking a 5th round pick, primarily special teams player in his 2nd year. He was in town in the offseason, we went out one night, tried to get into a club in Chicago, it was crazy crowded, one of their other friends was trying to play the "he's an athlete card" and basically they said "fine, but its a table with a $3K minimum" I believe. Friend is like "perfect, (player) you got it, yea?" And he was legitimately taken aback and replied "no dude, I can't afford that". He was probably making around $400K, minus taxes, agent fees, assorted other stuff. A great living? Absolutely, but not the kind of money to blow $3500 all-in at a bar for no real reason.
Same way, one of my buddies from college moved to Cleveland to be an accountant right after gradution. He and a friend moved into a nice, but not crazy, 2 BR. The previous renter? A Cleveland Cavalier. He actually got to know the player cause he moved into a different unit in the building and they became friendly. At first he was like "this is nuts", but it was similar. Young guy, league minimum salary, and he only lived in Cleveland as he kept another place where he grew up and went to school that he lived in during off seasons and breaks. So looking at it that way, it also made total sense.
Nobody is crying poverty for these guys, but "low level" pro athletes, especially baseball guys before they get their first real contract, aren't all Bentley cruising without a financial care in the world. Even more so if they are smart with their money realizing that earning potential may be finite and short.
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Completely off the subject, and I'm not doing this to name drop or impress or anything remotely close to that. My family has been involved with Michael Kopech and his charitable efforts, and we hung out with Michael and his wife Vanessa Morgan (she's an actress on Riverdale). Kopech grew his hair out for months, and today my son helped cut his hair in an effort to raise awareness for pediatric cancer and Ronald McDonald House.
Anyway, what was interesting in talking to Michael and Vanessa was their "normal" life stresses, and not knowing if Michael is going to be on the big league roster to start the year. Trying to figure that out and balance where to live, how to get their 5 dogs to Chicago, finding a place that is dog friendly to live, affording houses in both Phoenix where they live now and buying a place in Chicago. I realize he's a professional athlete and she's an actress, but it was really interesting how genuinely anxious and a level of stress in how they talked about it and trying to become a stable family. I realize they have all kinds of levels of access and luxury that most of us will never know, I think sometimes I forget these guys are normal human beings who have lives.
This may have been a totally pointless post, but Kopech is a legit genuine dude.
Great stuff.
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MU82, I am quite envious that you were able to vote for the HOF for so many years. Were there any guys you championed (or at least were adamant about that they belonged) that didn't make it? How about the reverse, guys you thought had no business being elected by the writers but who were? I'm not talking about the Veteran's committees, who are all over the place with their inductions.
The guy I probably championed the most did make it: Jim Thome. Truly one of the best people I ever covered in any sport, as well as a great hitter. Of guys who didn't make it, I pushed for Jim Edmonds and was disappointed (but not really surprised) that he didn't even get enough votes to stay on the ballot.
Campaigning against guys wasn't really my style, but I do remember saying Baines probably wasn't a HoFer; he ended up gettingg put in thanks to Veterans Committee lobbying by Reinsdorf.
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Thats awesome. Glad to hear he's a solid dude. Glad he got free of the Real Housewives-realm drama when he was still basically a kid and into something legit.
Also, so true about balancing and "affording" life. I have no clue to her earning status, but I can think of two similar stories, especially at that age. He had a nice bonus, but he's still on the pre-arb pay scale, he's not filthy rich yet, when you're talking all the random fees and expenses, not to mention 2 residences.
In my first few years out of college, I was good friends with a guy whose best friend from childhood played in the NFL. But we're talking a 5th round pick, primarily special teams player in his 2nd year. He was in town in the offseason, we went out one night, tried to get into a club in Chicago, it was crazy crowded, one of their other friends was trying to play the "he's an athlete card" and basically they said "fine, but its a table with a $3K minimum" I believe. Friend is like "perfect, (player) you got it, yea?" And he was legitimately taken aback and replied "no dude, I can't afford that". He was probably making around $400K, minus taxes, agent fees, assorted other stuff. A great living? Absolutely, but not the kind of money to blow $3500 all-in at a bar for no real reason.
Same way, one of my buddies from college moved to Cleveland to be an accountant right after gradution. He and a friend moved into a nice, but not crazy, 2 BR. The previous renter? A Cleveland Cavalier. He actually got to know the player cause he moved into a different unit in the building and they became friendly. At first he was like "this is nuts", but it was similar. Young guy, league minimum salary, and he only lived in Cleveland as he kept another place where he grew up and went to school that he lived in during off seasons and breaks. So looking at it that way, it also made total sense.
Nobody is crying poverty for these guys, but "low level" pro athletes, especially baseball guys before they get their first real contract, aren't all Bentley cruising without a financial care in the world. Even more so if they are smart with their money realizing that earning potential may be finite and short.
We met Kopech two years ago when he was dating Biermann (my wife is a huge fan, and I got Brielle to personalize a Sox hat with her autograph and “don’t be tardy” inscription). Kopech is a totally different guy now, his self awareness is really impressive for someone his age.
To your point about lower earning athletes, when I worked for the Bears in the early 2000’s, my job at their 2002 fan convention was to escort players from the players suite area, to their autograph area. The suite had ice cold beer bottles that one could just grab out of an open cooler. I saw Paul Edinger walking around with a backpack on, and a few minutes later, noticed he was putting beer after beer after beer into his backpack. These were glass bottles (probably MGD if I recall), so there was a definite clank. He ended up walking out with probably 7-10 beers.
I always remembered thinking “why would a pro athlete need to do that?”, and realized it’s free beer and seemed easy for anyone to do.
Also, hopefully someone finds this funny...whatever you picture Bruce Levine to be like in real life, I can assure you that’s exactly how he is.
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Dish:
Great stuff on Kopech. I heard he was a very nice person.
And exactly right on Bruce Levine.
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To your point about lower earning athletes, when I worked for the Bears in the early 2000’s, my job at their 2002 fan convention was to escort players from the players suite area, to their autograph area. The suite had ice cold beer bottles that one could just grab out of an open cooler. I saw Paul Edinger walking around with a backpack on, and a few minutes later, noticed he was putting beer after beer after beer into his backpack. These were glass bottles (probably MGD if I recall), so there was a definite clank. He ended up walking out with probably 7-10 beers.
This is a great story - Paul Edinger takes up more space than he should in the "remember useless junk but not meaningful things" part of my brain because of how he approached the ball. If I've been drinking and am pretending to kick something, I'm probably running up to it like Paul Edinger, so this all meshes well.
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Hahahaha. Verlander. Apparently he thinks the Astros are "technologically and analytically advanced"
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/justin-verlander-laughed-saying-astros-122334554.html
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Completely off the subject, and I'm not doing this to name drop or impress or anything remotely close to that. My family has been involved with Michael Kopech and his charitable efforts, and we hung out with Michael and his wife Vanessa Morgan (she's an actress on Riverdale). Kopech grew his hair out for months, and today my son helped cut his hair in an effort to raise awareness for pediatric cancer and Ronald McDonald House.
Anyway, what was interesting in talking to Michael and Vanessa was their "normal" life stresses, and not knowing if Michael is going to be on the big league roster to start the year. Trying to figure that out and balance where to live, how to get their 5 dogs to Chicago, finding a place that is dog friendly to live, affording houses in both Phoenix where they live now and buying a place in Chicago. I realize he's a professional athlete and she's an actress, but it was really interesting how genuinely anxious and a level of stress in how they talked about it and trying to become a stable family. I realize they have all kinds of levels of access and luxury that most of us will never know, I think sometimes I forget these guys are normal human beings who have lives.
This may have been a totally pointless post, but Kopech is a legit genuine dude.
As a White Sox fan (I do like the Brewers too) this was cool to read, thanks. Kopech definitely seems like a real chill/cool guy. Can't wait for him to be on the big league roster this year and to see how he bounces back.
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Castellanos signs with Cincinnati. That OF defense may be ugly, but they've added a lot of lunch to that lineup this offseason.
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Castellanos signs with Cincinnati. That OF defense may be ugly, but they've added a lot of lunch to that lineup this offseason.
I think it it's a four-team toss up in the NL Central, (everyone other than PIT).
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Castellanos signs with Cincinnati. That OF defense may be ugly, but they've added a lot of lunch to that lineup this offseason.
They're gonna be a hungry team this year.
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A little surprised Cin went four years for Castellanos, that's a long contract for him with an NL team. I'd see if Jesse Winker could be had now with that outfield getting crowded, he had a rough year last year but has good skills and should be cheaper to acquire than Nick Senzel, who the team is also reportedly shopping now. Maybe I'll eat these words, but signing Castellanos and then trading Senzel doesn't seem a great strategy.
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A little surprised Cin went four years for Castellanos, that's a long contract for him with an NL team. I'd see if Jesse Winker could be had now with that outfield getting crowded, he had a rough year last year but has good skills and should be cheaper to acquire than Nick Senzel, who the team is also reportedly shopping now. Maybe I'll eat these words, but signing Castellanos and then trading Senzel doesn't seem a great strategy.
If it results in Castellanos and Lindor in Cincinnati, it would be difficult to argue.
Castellanos also reportedly received multiple opt outs. To me, this is Scott Boras magic. It seems like there were very few if any, realistic suitors for Castellanos, and his closest comparison received a 1 year deal.
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D-Backs pick up Starling Marte from the Pirates for a couple of top 10 prospects.
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In the launch pad that is Cincinnati, he may hit 30 homers this year. And with the tiny outfield, his defensive range won't be an issue. Still have a bobblehead of his when he played single A ball.
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In the launch pad that is Cincinnati, he may hit 30 homers this year. And with the tiny outfield, his defensive range won't be an issue. Still have a bobblehead of his when he played single A ball.
If you had one in a Mud Hens uni, then I'd be impressed.
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https://twitter.com/JimBowdenGM/status/1221826513496084481?s=20
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Looks like the Astros are hiring Dusty Baker.
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Looks like the Astros are hiring Dusty Baker.
Could you hire a guy who is more anti-Astros than Dusty? It's almost comical.
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Could you hire a guy who is more anti-Astros than Dusty? It's almost comical.
When they were conducting interviews, I mentioned to a buddy that the Astros hiring Dusty after how they've been operating almost looks like self-imposed sanctions. Verlander is going to pitch 300 innings this year.
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Looks like the Astros are hiring Dusty Baker.
I cannot confirm or deny that this is part of the MLB punishment...
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And Jeremy Jeffres to the Cubs.
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And Jeremy Jeffres to the Cubs.
Looks like a low-risk signing for the Cubs. He’s not been great outside of Milwaukee. Hopefully that continues.
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Looks like a low-risk signing for the Cubs. He’s not been great outside of Milwaukee. Hopefully that continues.
It is kind of crazy, since Souza still isn't official, I think this is the Cubs first major league free agent signing.
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Could you hire a guy who is more anti-Astros than Dusty? It's almost comical.
Seems like a perfect hire actually. He will be able to handle the media, which will be a complete circus. And he should command immediate respect from the players.
Is he into analytics? Probably not. But the Astros need stability. Dusty should give them that, and also, who knows what the Astros front office strategy will be, as their GM and Assistant GM are no longer there.
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Seems like a perfect hire actually. He will be able to handle the media, which will be a complete circus. And he should command immediate respect from the players.
Is he into analytics? Probably not. But the Astros need stability. Dusty should give them that, and also, who knows what the Astros front office strategy will be, as their GM and Assistant GM are no longer there.
Counterpoint: he's not very good.
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Could be worse. Could be Ausmus.
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It is kind of crazy, since Souza still isn't official, I think this is the Cubs first major league free agent signing.
For a team with no money to spend, Jeffress and Souza are good high upside lottery tickets.
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Counterpoint: he's not very good.
He is a 3 time manager of the year, .532 winning % (in 3500 games), and led teams to the playoffs 9 times (at least once with each of the teams he has managed). But I'm sure you're right.
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For a team with no money to spend that doesn't want to spend money, Jeffress and Souza are good high upside lottery tickets.
Is that what you meant?
They lost Kintzler, Strop and Cishek and filled those spots with Jeffress. If I were a Cub fan, that bullpen would be concerning. Even if you are banking on a return to from from Kimbrel.
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He is a 3 time manager of the year, .532 winning % (in 3500 games), and led teams to the playoffs 9 times (at least once with each of the teams he has managed). But I'm sure you're right.
He's been fortunate to manage good teams and not f*ck them up terribly. Look, if you want Dusty managing your team, go ahead. I'll hire someone with a brain and beat you consistently.
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He is a 3 time manager of the year, .532 winning % (in 3500 games), and led teams to the playoffs 9 times (at least once with each of the teams he has managed). But I'm sure you're right.
This is correct.
The irony is that the reason some people think Dusty isn't good is because his teams haven't had a ton of playoff success.... while failing to recognize that he's been a manager who consistently gets teams to the playoffs.
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This is correct.
The irony is that the reason some people think Dusty isn't good is because his teams haven't had a ton of playoff success.... while failing to recognize that he's been a manager who consistently gets teams to the playoffs.
He generally gets good teams to the playoffs. Where they fall apart.
Then the next guy comes in and does things like lead them to a World Series championship two years later (Nationals) or increase their number of wins (Giants, Cubs)
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He's been fortunate to manage good teams and not f*ck them up terribly. Look, if you want Dusty managing your team, go ahead. I'll hire someone with a brain and beat you consistently.
Interesting, because all the other real MLB GMs hiring managers have only been able to beat Dusty's teams 47% of the time. Over a pretty significant sample size. I'm sure you'd do better though. You're ever so much smarter.
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He's been fortunate to manage good teams and not f*ck them up terribly.
And isn't this probably the Astros goal exactly?
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He generally gets good teams to the playoffs. Where they fall apart.
Then the next guy comes in and does things like lead them to a World Series championship two years later (Nationals) or increase their number of wins (Giants, Cubs)
Some might suggest there were some key differences between the 2019 Nationals roster and their 2016 and 2017 rosters (aka Corbin and Soto, plus full seasons of Eaton and Robles).
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You guys are White Sox fans, right? If it were possible, would you want Dusty Baker to manage the White Sox this season?
Rick Renteria is lifetime 274-373, and has never lost fewer than 89 games in a season. (I would take Renteria over Baker).
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You guys are White Sox fans, right? If it were possible, would you want Dusty Baker to manage the White Sox this season?
Rick Renteria is lifetime 274-373, and has never lost fewer than 89 games in a season. (I would take Renteria over Baker).
No, but not because he's a bad manager.
I don't want him anywhere near the White Sox young - and in nearly every case surgically repaired - arms.
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No, but not because he's a bad manager.
I don't want him anywhere near the White Sox young - and in nearly every case surgically repaired - arms.
LOL. "He's a good manager, but not for my team."
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Interesting, because all the other real MLB GMs hiring managers have only been able to beat Dusty's teams 47% of the time. Over a pretty significant sample size. I'm sure you'd do better though. You're ever so much smarter.
I'm glad you like Dusty and think he's wonderful. That tells me all I need to know about your baseball opinions.
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LOL. "He's a good manager, but not for my team."
I know, I know. Context can be a mentally taxing.
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I'm glad you like Dusty and think he's wonderful. That tells me all I need to know about your baseball opinions.
And you sticking to an ignorant I'll for.wd opinion in light of facts is completely in character for you, so I guess I shouldn't expect differently.
I have no special affinity for Dusty. I'm inclined to hate him as a former Cub. But to say he's a bad manager is stupid. How many other managers have led 4 different teams to the playoffs? You can't be the bumbling moron you paint him to be and do that.
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Is that what you meant?
They lost Kintzler, Strop and Cishek and filled those spots with Jeffress. If I were a Cub fan, that bullpen would be concerning. Even if you are banking on a return to from from Kimbrel.
The bullpen is absolutely a concern. Now, in the 2nd half Wick and Ryan were very good but there's obviously not much of a track record there. They have spots locked up though. Basically, they're going with a volume approach. Throwing a lot of high-upside, high-risk options against the wall and seeing what will stick.
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Bryant loses his grievance. I still have a hard time believing it took this long to come to a decision.
We'll see if the trade discussions pick up now that we know he has two years of control left. With Ozuna signing in Atlanta that removes one suitor that made a lot of sense. San Diego is seemingly focused on Betts and the Dodgers seemed more interested in Lindor and are unlikely to move any top prospects. The market just doesn't seem to be there so I Hope KB is in the Cubs lineup opening day.
Better to reassess this summer than to sell low.
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Dusty Baker has made a career of stepping into difficult situations, getting a team to believe in themselves and each other, and having good seasons. He's very good at infusing an "us against the world" mentality. Ballplayers historically have liked playing for him, at least at first. He excels at ego management, which is the most difficult part of being a big-league manager.
And he wins - usually very quickly - every place he's been, no matter how bad the team had been previously.
1992 SF 72-90
1993 SF 103-59 (Baker's first year)
2002 Cubs 67-95
2003 Cubs 88-74 (Baker's first year)
2007 Cin 72-90
2008 Cin 74-88 (Baker's first year)
2009 Cin 78-84
2010 Cin 91-71
2015 Wash 83-79
2016 Wash 95-67 (Baker's first year)
Average improvement in his first season: +16.5 games. He also took each franchise to the postseason at least once.
He usually has flamed out after a couple/few years, but regardless of what one feels about his strategic decisions, it's hard to look at the body of evidence above and deny that he has been a turnaround specialist.
Baker's use of starting pitchers also changed as the years went on and it became more the norm to coddle them. By the time he got to Washington, he didn't "abuse" Scherzer, Strasberg, Gonzalez, etc. Maybe that was upper management telling him what to do; if so, he obeyed orders - and won 2 division titles.
Houston isn't really a turnaround situation, it's a "crisis management" situation, and I wouldn't be surprised if he does well. Given that they cheated their way to 107 wins last season, I'm guessing that no matter how well he does, his streak of improving upon a team's prior-season record will end.
Disclosure: I know and like Dusty Baker.
That disclosure doesn't change the facts: Every single time he has been hired, the team has won more games the following season - in 3 of the 4 cases, significantly more games.
I wouldn't hire him to bring along a young team involved in a "process" situation, like the Astros were 5+ years ago. But if I had a veteran team that needed a jolt, I would not hesitate to hire him as manager.
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Houston isn't really a turnaround situation, it's a "crisis management" situation, and I wouldn't be surprised if he does well. Given that they cheated their way to 107 wins last season, I'm guessing that no matter how well he does, his streak of improving upon a team's prior-season record will end.
Disclosure: I know and like Dusty Baker.
I think this is all kind of the key to why Dusty is probably going to get this job. 82's feelings toward Dusty seem pretty universal in the industry (PS - its cool that you know him personally). Even the people who don't think he's a good modern manager don't dislike him.
Regardless of how much Jim Crane know about the cheating scandal, he just wants all of this to go away. Their front office has been in the news for reprehensible behavior over the last year even before the cheating scandal, and Dusty is one of the few guys who is pretty much beyond reproach. If the Astros win 95 games this year, people won't be happy, but its also going to be a lot harder to accuse them of still cheating with Dusty on the bench. I think this is an image hire as much as a baseball one, and that's probably a good thing for the game and for the Astros in the long view.
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Dusty Baker has made a career of stepping into difficult situations, getting a team to believe in themselves and each other, and having good seasons. He's very good at infusing an "us against the world" mentality. Ballplayers historically have liked playing for him, at least at first. He excels at ego management, which is the most difficult part of being a big-league manager.
And he wins - usually very quickly - every place he's been, no matter how bad the team had been previously.
1992 SF 72-90
1993 SF 103-59 (Baker's first year)
2002 Cubs 67-95
2003 Cubs 88-74 (Baker's first year)
2007 Cin 72-90
2008 Cin 74-88 (Baker's first year)
2009 Cin 78-84
2010 Cin 91-71
2015 Wash 83-79
2016 Wash 95-67 (Baker's first year)
Average improvement in his first season: +16.5 games. He also took each franchise to the postseason at least once.
He usually has flamed out after a couple/few years, but regardless of what one feels about his strategic decisions, it's hard to look at the body of evidence above and deny that he has been a turnaround specialist.
Baker's use of starting pitchers also changed as the years went on and it became more the norm to coddle them. By the time he got to Washington, he didn't "abuse" Scherzer, Strasberg, Gonzalez, etc. Maybe that was upper management telling him what to do; if so, he obeyed orders - and won 2 division titles.
Houston isn't really a turnaround situation, it's a "crisis management" situation, and I wouldn't be surprised if he does well. Given that they cheated their way to 107 wins last season, I'm guessing that no matter how well he does, his streak of improving upon a team's prior-season record will end.
Disclosure: I know and like Dusty Baker.
That disclosure doesn't change the facts: Every single time he has been hired, the team has won more games the following season - in 3 of the 4 cases, significantly more games.
I wouldn't hire him to bring along a young team involved in a "process" situation, like the Astros were 5+ years ago. But if I had a veteran team that needed a jolt, I would not hesitate to hire him as manager.
You get out of here with your statistically based evidence. That stuff doesn't matter.
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Bryant loses his grievance. I still have a hard time believing it took this long to come to a decision.
We'll see if the trade discussions pick up now that we know he has two years of control left. With Ozuna signing in Atlanta that removes one suitor that made a lot of sense. San Diego is seemingly focused on Betts and the Dodgers seemed more interested in Lindor and are unlikely to move any top prospects. The market just doesn't seem to be there so I Hope KB is in the Cubs lineup opening day.
Better to reassess this summer than to sell low.
Yeah, why this took until now is baffling. It really seems that this was the 99% outcome the whole time. It will be interesting to see what happens with the Cubs. I cant help but feel that if this decision came in December, it could have really changed the offseason.
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Dusty is the perfectly fine coach and a great hire for the situation.
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So, the Cards were heavily rumored to be interested in Arenado before Bridich said he wouldn't be traded.
In a it'll never happen scenario, what about Bryant to the Cards for group built around Liberatore and Gorman? Who says no?
My guess is the Cards but I'm not sure.
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Bye Kris.
Nightengale is reporting that the Cubs “lied to him.” Bryant “feels unwanted, underappreciated, and believes the organization openly lied during the arbitration hearing.”
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I think this is all kind of the key to why Dusty is probably going to get this job. 82's feelings toward Dusty seem pretty universal in the industry (PS - its cool that you know him personally). Even the people who don't think he's a good modern manager don't dislike him.
Regardless of how much Jim Crane know about the cheating scandal, he just wants all of this to go away. Their front office has been in the news for reprehensible behavior over the last year even before the cheating scandal, and Dusty is one of the few guys who is pretty much beyond reproach. If the Astros win 95 games this year, people won't be happy, but its also going to be a lot harder to accuse them of still cheating with Dusty on the bench. I think this is an image hire as much as a baseball one, and that's probably a good thing for the game and for the Astros in the long view.
Thanks.
For the record, Dusty and I didn't hang out together. I knew him professionally, had many great conversations with him, both on and off the record, and in both group and 1-on-1 situations. He had a unique breadth of life experiences -- grew up a black man during extremely volatile time for race relations in America, was in the Marine Corps reserves, husband and father, All-Star ballplayer, manager, broadcaster -- that has helped him relate to people from all walks of life.
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Bye Kris.
Nightengale is reporting that the Cubs “lied to him.” Bryant “feels unwanted, underappreciated, and believes the organization openly lied during the arbitration hearing.”
I'd recommend when you see a report from Nightengale that you believe the opposite to be true.
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I'd recommend when you see a report from Nightengale that you believe the opposite to be true.
Yep
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/4559024002
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Yeah, why this took until now is baffling. It really seems that this was the 99% outcome the whole time. It will be interesting to see what happens with the Cubs. I cant help but feel that if this decision came in December, it could have really changed the offseason.
The timing has had a massive impact on the offseason. I understand it's a crucial ruling for the sport but the grievance was filed a long time ago.
So, the Cards were heavily rumored to be interested in Arenado before Bridich said he wouldn't be traded.
In a it'll never happen scenario, what about Bryant to the Cards for group built around Liberatore and Gorman? Who says no?
My guess is the Cards but I'm not sure.
I believe Arenado has full no-trade rights so he can dictate where he wants to end up to an extent. Passan said he would love to come to the Cubs but I just don't see them being able to 1) Agree to a trade for Arenado while also sending a contract to Colorado to lessen the impact of Arenado's contract and 2) getting an acceptable return for Bryant.
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I'd recommend when you see a report from Nightengale that you believe the opposite to be true.
Yeah I’m guessing through multiple years of rumors that KB was unhappy with how the Cubs dealt with his service time he suddenly had a come to Jesus moment while filing a grievance and they all just sat around and sang Kumbaya together. He probably signed a lifetime contract extension with the Cubs for $1M/year that will be announced shortly.
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The timing has had a massive impact on the offseason. I understand it's a crucial ruling for the sport but the grievance was filed a long time ago.
I believe Arenado has full no-trade rights so he can dictate where he wants to end up to an extent. Passan said he would love to come to the Cubs but I just don't see them being able to 1) Agree to a trade for Arenado while also sending a contract to Colorado to lessen the impact of Arenado's contract and 2) getting an acceptable return for Bryant.
Are the Cubs pursuing Arenado? That'd be interesting. You are right on about his no trade, but it seems like he would be happy to get out of Colorado based on recent comments. He is a tricky trade candidate, as he has an opt out in 2 years. If the Rockies do decide to trade him, I wouldn't think they would need to really take bad money back. He is an elite player, in his prime, basically making market rate.
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Yep
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/4559024002
::)
Ken Rosenthal an idiot too?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1222527260491767808
If you don't want to click on it, the quote is
"This guy wins. He does it everywhere he goes. It is a very clear pattern."
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::)
Ken Rosenthal an idiot too?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1222527260491767808
If you don't want to click on it, the quote is
"This guy wins. He does it everywhere he goes. It is a very clear pattern."
Yep. He has a clear pattern of being a bad manager.
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Yeah I’m guessing through multiple years of rumors that KB was unhappy with how the Cubs dealt with his service time he suddenly had a come to Jesus moment while filing a grievance and they all just sat around and sang Kumbaya together. He probably signed a lifetime contract extension with the Cubs for $1M/year that will be announced shortly.
Not remotely what I said but let your irrational Cubs hate flow through you and make you look like a complete idiot.
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Not remotely what I said but let your irrational Cubs hate flow through you and make you look like a complete idiot.
Then please explain to me what the opposite of what Nightengale reported would be? You told everyone to believe the opposite of what he reports so...
I agree. Believing that KB is thrilled with the Cubs (the opposite of what Nightengale is reporting) would make me look like a complete idiot. Thank you for confirming.
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Are the Cubs pursuing Arenado? That'd be interesting. You are right on about his no trade, but it seems like he would be happy to get out of Colorado based on recent comments. He is a tricky trade candidate, as he has an opt out in 2 years. If the Rockies do decide to trade him, I wouldn't think they would need to really take bad money back. He is an elite player, in his prime, basically making market rate.
There's been been rumors the Cubs have discussed a Bryant for Arenado trade straight up and other rumors that the Cubs trade Contreras along with Chatwood or Heyward to get some salary relief. Obviously there should be a lot of skepticism there but you can see how that could make some sense.
As for Arenado's no-trade clause, he clearly wants out of CO but I think he could use it to dictate where me might want to go, similar to what Stanton did to get out of Miami a couple of years ago. The opt-out is a key aspect. Would he be willing to tear up the opt-out to get to a place he wants to be? It would be difficult to give up talent and take on the contract with the additional risk he could walk in two years.
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Then please explain to me what the opposite of what Nightengale reported would be? You told everyone to believe the opposite of what he reports so...
I agree. Believing that KB is thrilled with the Cubs (the opposite of what Nightengale is reporting) would make me look like a complete idiot. Thank you for confirming.
The opposite is that he didn't say that or doesn't feel that way, which has already been reported.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/cubs/2020/1/29/21113460/kris-bryant-cubs-grievance
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Yep. He has a clear pattern of being a bad manager.
Hahah
https://twitter.com/jaysonst/status/1222563813888876552
I'm curious as to you would have hired for the Astros. Scioscia is another guy that I think would have worked, but I have no idea if he wants to manage again.
Let me guess? You'd go with Cora? Beltran perhaps?
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Hahah
https://twitter.com/jaysonst/status/1222563813888876552
I'm curious as to you would have hired for the Astros. Scioscia is another guy that I think would have worked, but I have no idea if he wants to manage again.
Let me guess? You'd go with Cora? Beltran perhaps?
Someone not named "Dusty Baker"
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Someone not named "Dusty Baker"
Wow. Clever. And thoughtful. You add so much to conversations. Thanks.
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Wow. Clever. And thoughtful. You add so much to conversations. Thanks.
If you don't like what I add, don't ask me questions.
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If you don't like what I add, don't ask me questions.
Well, I gave you too much credit, and thought you could maybe carry on a conversation like an adult. That was my mistake. I should have know you are all BS and no substance at all. A mistake I will try not to repeat. Thanks.
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Well, I gave you too much credit, and thought you could maybe carry on a conversation like an adult.
Why would I carry on an adult conversation with someone with a child's intellect?
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Arenado to the Cubs for Bryant + prospect in the 5-10 range.
Who says no?
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Arenado to the Cubs for Bryant + prospect in the 5-10 range.
Who says no?
Cubs unless they shed a ton of salary first.
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Arenado to the Cubs for Bryant + prospect in the 5-10 range.
Who says no?
I would think the Cubs would do that, I'm not sure about the Rockies. A guy in the Cubs 5-10 doesn't move the needle that much, and Arenado is such a superior defender.
There is also the possibility of having Arenado long term, while it seems like a solid bet that Bryant will try free agency. I think Arenado has more value at this point in time than Bryant and a 5-10. The wild card could be the status of the Arenado-Bridich relationship.
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Why would I carry on an adult conversation with someone with a child's intellect?
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b6/67/be/b667befca130dfb77a2caf3cc1990228.gif)
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I think Bryant will be in the Cubs opening day lineup in 2020. I very much believe he’ll be in another team’s uniform on August 1st.
The rumblings of Bryant’s dissatisfaction with the Cubs have been out there for a while. The Cubs know he won’t agree to a new deal unless it was massive, and the Cubs don’t intend to do that.
The underlining issue that gets touched on by the media some is that behind the scenes, the Cubs have real debt problems they are trying to work through. It doesn’t mean they couldn’t take on a big Bryant (or someone else) contract, they don’t want to incur the additional luxury tax debt.
I still believe the Cubs will be sold in the next 5 years.
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I think Bryant will be in the Cubs opening day lineup in 2020. I very much believe he’ll be in another team’s uniform on August 1st.
The rumblings of Bryant’s dissatisfaction with the Cubs have been out there for a while. The Cubs know he won’t agree to a new deal unless it was massive, and the Cubs don’t intend to do that.
The underlining issue that gets touched on by the media some is that behind the scenes, the Cubs have real debt problems they are trying to work through. It doesn’t mean they couldn’t take on a big Bryant (or someone else) contract, they don’t want to incur the additional luxury tax debt.
I still believe the Cubs will be sold in the next 5 years.
Curious why you think the Cubs will be sold?
Are you referring to additional debt they took on to fund the renovations?
I just don't see a sale happening.
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In Dusty, We Busty!
That said, the Baker Family wines are pretty good.
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Curious why you think the Cubs will be sold?
Are you referring to additional debt they took on to fund the renovations?
I just don't see a sale happening.
Ricketts Family was never going to be long term owners. Their ownership has always been a real estate and media rights play.
They will sell the team and keep a majority stake in MSN, they’ll sell the radio rights. They’ll also be the biggest landlord in Wrigleyville.
I’m ultra confident within five years the Cubs will be sold. MSN was the final piece to get established.
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Ricketts Family was never going to be long term owners. Their ownership has always been a real estate and media rights play.
They will sell the team and keep a majority stake in MSN, they’ll sell the radio rights. They’ll also be the biggest landlord in Wrigleyville.
I’m ultra confident within five years the Cubs will be sold. MSN was the final piece to get established.
Yep. The family has slowly been distancing themselves.
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Yep. The family has slowly been distancing themselves.
They won a WS, broke a curse, and successfully and tastefully renovated one of the most famous stadiums in the world. I don't disagree with what everyone has said about it being a "short term" business play, but they've managed to accomplish more than many "committed" owners
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They won a WS, broke a curse, and successfully and tastefully renovated one of the most famous stadiums in the world. I don't disagree with what everyone has said about it being a "short term" business play, but they've managed to accomplish more than many "committed" owners
They've been great owners, but like Dish said, they aren't in it for the long term.
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The Reds have signed Pedro Stop. 1 yr/ 1.8 million. Pretty low risk move, even if he never gets back to what he was before. That's a decent price even if he is just a middle innings guy.
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Arenado to the Cubs for Bryant + prospect in the 5-10 range.
Who says no?
In a vacuum I like it. As others mentioned, it's all about the finances. Adding Arenado and only giving up Bryant puts them not only well into the luxury but also dangerously close to the second tier luxury threshold, which comes with an even steeper penalty. There's no way this would happen without CO eating at least some portion of it.
I tend to think, like Dish said, Bryant will be in the Cubs lineup day one. However, there's so much sentiment coming out that this admin is really set on big changes . Should be an interesting couple fo weeks.
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In a vacuum I like it. As others mentioned, it's all about the finances. Adding Arenado and only giving up Bryant puts them not only well into the luxury but also dangerously close to the second tier luxury threshold, which comes with an even steeper penalty. There's no way this would happen without CO eating at least some portion of it.
I tend to think, like Dish said, Bryant will be in the Cubs lineup day one. However, there's so much sentiment coming out that this admin is really set on big changes . Should be an interesting couple fo weeks.
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/cubs/5-potential-kris-bryant-trade-packages-0#slide-1
Take it for what its worth, which isn't much. But with this speculation at least, hard to see any of those deals being agreeable to both sides.
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The Reds have signed Pedro Stop. 1 yr/ 1.8 million. Pretty low risk move, even if he never gets back to what he was before. That's a decent price even if he is just a middle innings guy.
I guess the beef was with Puig, (who is no longer on CIN), but I always find it interesting when a "villain" joins your team.
(https://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/yasiel-puig-pedro-strop.jpg)
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Would’ve kept Strop for that money. Bummer. Won’t hear about his hat anymore though which is nice.
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Would’ve kept Strop for that money. Bummer. Won’t hear about his hat anymore though which is nice.
Yes. My 65 year old father and lifelong fan didn’t like him solely because of that hat.
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Who knows what happens, but the rumors about Betts getting traded seem to be picking up steam, with the Dodgers and Padres both in on him.
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Would’ve kept Strop for that money. Bummer. Won’t hear about his hat anymore though which is nice.
One of the best Cubs relievers of all time. I think he still has something left in the tank. I'll miss you and your hat, Pedro.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ZwRheCJC3ZQMGsS06H/giphy.gif)
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One of the best Cubs relievers of all time.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ZwRheCJC3ZQMGsS06H/giphy.gif)
Huh?
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This is an impressive effort.
http://signstealingscandal.com/
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This is an impressive effort.
http://signstealingscandal.com/
And keep in mind that only tracks the garbage can bangs.... Reportedly, the sign for fastballs was no sound.
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Huh?
Do some research, Doc.
Strop/Cubs All-Time Relief Rankings:
WAR: 5.7 (4th)
ERA: 2.90 (10th)
ERA-: 72 (8th)
K%: 28.1% (3rd)
AVG: .183 (3rd)
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Do some research, Doc.
Strop/Cubs All-Time Relief Rankings:
WAR: 5.7 (4th)
ERA: 2.90 (10th)
ERA-: 72 (8th)
K%: 28.1% (3rd)
AVG: .183 (3rd)
Highest save year 13, last season. Good middle reliever/set up guy? Yeah at times. All time great? Not close when you have Hall of Famers in front of him.
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Highest save year 13, last season.
I think that was '18; in '19 he had a very bad year. I think Strop is "one of" the best Cubs relievers ever, but his decline in 2019 was very concerning. He lost 2 MPH on his fastball from 18 to 19, (and is down 5 mph from his peak).
I wish him the best of luck. Bruce Levine on The Score called him one of the best clubhouse presences ever.
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I think that was '18; in '19 he had a very bad year. I think Strop is "one of" the best Cubs relievers ever, but his decline in 2019 was very concerning. He lost 2 MPH on his fastball from 18 to 19, (and is down 5 mph from his peak).
I wish him the best of luck. Bruce Levine on The Score called him one of the best clubhouse presences ever.
Yep. Sorry. 10 last year, my bad. What a steal of a trade?
That said, Strop is not in the Big Lee and Sutter range of all timers. Phil Reagan was even better perhaps. I would even say Strop in his best years couldn’t touch Marmol in his best years (and Marmol drove me crazy as a closer).
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Highest save year 13, last season. Good middle reliever/set up guy? Yeah at times. All time great? Not close when you have Hall of Famers in front of him.
Clearly not basing it on saves. Nor am I saying he is anywhere near the class of Bruce Sutter or Lee Smith (16.1 and 14.9 fWAR respectively).
He was however consistently excellent as a set up man for 5 straight years and is 4th all-time in fWAR of Cubs relievers. Top 5 or top 10 in multiple other categories. 5 straight seasons with ERAs between 2.21 and 2.91, all but one of which were when the Cubs were playing meaningful baseball. With the volatility of relief pitching that consistency is extremely impressive.
By all objective measures he is absolutely one of the Cubs best relievers of all time.
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Strop was a big part of some very good teams. His contributions are always slightly weakened in story just by being the weaker of the two brought over in the Baltimore trade. (Arietta the other).
Still, he did a great job for the organization. Maybe our fate a couple years back would’ve been different if he doesn’t go down trying to beat out a ground ball.
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Looks like Mookie will be wearing Dodger blue. Huge addition.
Edit: Price, Verdugo and a 3rd team involved.
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Looks like Mookie will be wearing Dodger blue. Huge addition.
Edit: Price, Verdugo and a 3rd team involved.
@Ken_Rosenthal: Joc Pederson would go from #Dodgers to #Angels if blockbuster is completed, source tells The Athletic.
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Wow. The Twins traded their best pitching prospect for Kenta Maeda.
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This trade kills me. Mookie was the most fun player to watch in my 50+ years of Red Sox fandom. Happy to be rid of Price, though I wonder how much of the contract the Red Sox will have to eat. I think Betts will not put up the same WAR numbers in LA. He was made for Fenway Park and his defensive WAR will take a big hit moving out of Fenway. That huge right field gave him an opportunity to run down and catch a lot of balls that aren't available elsewhere and the low wall allows him to rob an HR or 3 every year on what are actually somewhat routine catches.
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Dombrowski left a team with a depleted farm system and highly paid free agents that needed moved to restore fiscal sanity. Weird.
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Wow. The Twins traded their best pitching prospect for Kenta Maeda.
Really surprised the Twins weren't able to drag at least a lottery ticket prospect or two from LA's system for coughing up the quality of prospect Boston needed to pull the trigger. Maeda's contract is probably more valuable than his skill set.
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This trade kills me. Mookie was the most fun player to watch in my 50+ years of Red Sox fandom. Happy to be rid of Price, though I wonder how much of the contract the Red Sox will have to eat. I think Betts will not put up the same WAR numbers in LA. He was made for Fenway Park and his defensive WAR will take a big hit moving out of Fenway. That huge right field gave him an opportunity to run down and catch a lot of balls that aren't available elsewhere and the low wall allows him to rob an HR or 3 every year on what are actually somewhat routine catches.
I saw $50 million from the Sox to the Dodgers, but that was last night when it was still breaking.
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Not sure Pederson stays...Angels want to bring up their stud minor leaguer and the other two outfield spots are taken. More trades ahead?
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Not sure Pederson stays...Angels want to bring up their stud minor leaguer and the other two outfield spots are taken. More trades ahead?
He isn't a perfect fit that's for sure. He can keep the spot warm for Adell, and then I'd guess he platoons at 1B with Pujols.
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This trade kills me. Mookie was the most fun player to watch in my 50+ years of Red Sox fandom. Happy to be rid of Price, though I wonder how much of the contract the Red Sox will have to eat. I think Betts will not put up the same WAR numbers in LA. He was made for Fenway Park and his defensive WAR will take a big hit moving out of Fenway. That huge right field gave him an opportunity to run down and catch a lot of balls that aren't available elsewhere and the low wall allows him to rob an HR or 3 every year on what are actually somewhat routine catches.
$$$ are more important than winning.
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$$$ are more important than winning.
That's definitely a factor, but not the only factor.
Betts made it be known he was testing free agency next offseason and the Red Sox had reason to believe they weren't going to be able to keep him. So rather than get a late first-round pick in the 2021 draft as compensation, they bit the bullet and dealt him for a pair of more valuable assets.
Bitter pill for Red Sox fans, but there was more to it than the team being cheap.
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Really surprised the Twins weren't able to drag at least a lottery ticket prospect or two from LA's system for coughing up the quality of prospect Boston needed to pull the trigger. Maeda's contract is probably more valuable than his skill set.
Burrows, I actually think the Twins did what they needed. The window to win is usually pretty short for small market teams. They needed someone to help them win now - and got it in Maeda. Graterol may or may not become a good pitcher in the Majors - I think he will end up being a closer - but he wasn't going to help Minny this year.
For a big money team to give up Graterol for Maeda would be awful - for Minny it works. At least, IMHO.
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That's definitely a factor, but not the only factor.
Betts made it be known he was testing free agency next offseason and the Red Sox had reason to believe they weren't going to be able to keep him. So rather than get a late first-round pick in the 2021 draft as compensation, they bit the bullet and dealt him for a pair of more valuable assets.
Bitter pill for Red Sox fans, but there was more to it than the team being cheap.
There is some value he would have taken to hedge against an injury this year (probbaly between $36M and $40M) but there is no way Red Sox would have ponied up that kind of money. The Red Sox probably did the right thing, because they got themselves under the luxury tax threshold (which makes it easier to bid for Mookie next year, if that is the plan.) I just hate that I won't get to watch Mookie next year. Understand it, but hate it.
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Burrows, I actually think the Twins did what they needed. The window to win is usually pretty short for small market teams. They needed someone to help them win now - and got it in Maeda. Graterol may or may not become a good pitcher in the Majors - I think he will end up being a closer - but he wasn't going to help Minny this year.
For a big money team to give up Graterol for Maeda would be awful - for Minny it works. At least, IMHO.
It doesn't matter what the Twins do as they never breast the Yankees in October.
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It doesn't matter what the Twins do as they never breast the Yankees in October.
Meet Dr. Freud
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The window to win is usually pretty short for small market teams. They needed someone to help them win now - and got it in Maeda.
The Twins apparently didn't get the memo that a team in their own division has already won the offseason.
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Burrows, I actually think the Twins did what they needed. The window to win is usually pretty short for small market teams. They needed someone to help them win now - and got it in Maeda. Graterol may or may not become a good pitcher in the Majors - I think he will end up being a closer - but he wasn't going to help Minny this year.
For a big money team to give up Graterol for Maeda would be awful - for Minny it works. At least, IMHO.
I agree, particularly with the bolded. And I don't hate the move, I'm admittedly nitpicking. You'll never be mad to have a guy like Kenta Maeda around on a contract like that. I just question whether Maeda is the best use of prospect capital like Graterol. Maeda is good, and his swingmaniness is more valuable in today's MLB than ever before - but his skills are only pretty good. His contract is the most valuable thing about him - four more years at $3M base and easily manipulatable incentives. That seems to be a "stretch the window" kind of trade more than a targeted strike to win now, compared to other guys who might have been available for 1-2 years for a prospect of Graterol's character (Graterol is immediately listed as Boston's top prospect).
Maeda is a nice guy to have around over 162 games, but I'm not sure if he helps you in the playoffs. If I were the Twins, I think I would have been more likely to wait on trading Graterol and then target someone that can help you win playoff series. The Dodgers haven't started Maeda in a playoff game in either of the past two years, and he only threw 11 playoff innings for them in that span. Heck, its very possible Graterol throws more playoff innings for the 2020 Twins than Maeda does. But throw everything i say out the window if Graterol is actually broken, as those concerns seem to be holding up the deal.
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#notdonedeal?
@JonHeyman: Red Sox are said to be trying to reconfigure the part of the Betts 3-team deal with the Twins (meaning more than Graterol). While there’s still hope the mega deal gets done in some form, some involved are now suggesting it’s not a certainty.
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Astros cheating scandal updates
Hammerin Hank says lifetime ban for all players involved (I agree):
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/hank-aaron-thinks-players-involved-in-astros-sign-stealing-scandal-should-be-banned-for-life/
New details on sign stealing (sh*t goes deeeeeeep):
https://sports.yahoo.com/explosive-new-details-emerge-about-the-astros-cheating-scandal-000636683.html
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Astros cheating scandal updates
New details on sign stealing (sh*t goes deeeeeeep):
https://sports.yahoo.com/explosive-new-details-emerge-about-the-astros-cheating-scandal-000636683.html
This shows how clueless Manfred is. He is cut from the same cloth (dirty linen) as Selig. Not only should there be deeper penalties for Houston and Boston, but Manfred should also bear the brunt of this. Fire the guy and find someone with integrity - if the owners can be convinced that integrity is a good thing.
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What a strange situation. Sox/Dodgers/Twins trade finally goes through and Pederson to Angels falls through.
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Is MLB trying to make the game ... gulp ... fun?
Imagine a team picking its playoff opponent. Think about Brian Cashman and the Yankees deciding whether to face the Red Sox or avoid them in the first round of the postseason. All on live TV.
Well, it is probably coming soon to the major leagues.
MLB is seriously weighing a move from five to seven playoff teams in each league beginning in 2022, The Post has learned.
In this concept, the team with the best record in each league would receive a bye to avoid the wild-card round and go directly to the Division Series. The two other division winners and the wild card with the next best record would each host all three games in a best-of-three wild-card round. So the bottom three wild cards would have no first-round home games.
The division winner with the second-best record in a league would then get the first pick of its opponent from those lower three wild cards, then the other division winner would pick, leaving the last two wild cards to play each other.
https://nypost.com/2020/02/10/mlb-plotting-playoff-expansion-with-reality-tv-twist/
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Picking your opponent could be kinda neat, but we absolutely don't need more playoff teams
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Picking your opponent could be kinda neat, but we absolutely don't need more playoff teams
Im all for more playoff teams if they shorten the season a couple of weeks.
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I've thought for years that the NCAA should let teams that qualify for the tournament pick their first round opponents on live tv during the selection show. Announce the 68 teams that qualify, name the play in teams, and then let the #1 ranked team pick their opponent, and then so on.
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Im all for more playoff teams if they shorten the season a couple of weeks.
The MLB Playoffs have never had the "second season" feel that the NHL or NBA does, and for that reason making the playoffs in baseball has always been at least somewhat or a success. I would personally prefer MLB keeps it that way.
My favorite MLB playoff format is still when the winners of the East played the winners of the West to represent the league in the WS, (1969 to 1997, I think) The '82 Brewers, '83 White Sox, and '84 Cubs are still revered because making the playoffs was a big deal. I don't think WC teams like the '15 Pirates or '16 Orioles will be remembered with such pride.
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Only a matter of time, I suppose.
Former MLB pitcher sues Astros, alleging sign-stealing cut short his career. Gave up four runs to the Astros while pitching in relief for the Blue Jays, never played in the majors again.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/10/us/mlb-pitcher-mike-bolsinger-lawsuit-houston-astros-spt/index.html
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Upon reporting to spring training, Mike Fiers actually told ESPN that he didn't know why they or any other media outlet would want to talk to him.
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Only a matter of time, I suppose.
Former MLB pitcher sues Astros, alleging sign-stealing cut short his career. Gave up four runs to the Astros while pitching in relief for the Blue Jays, never played in the majors again.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/10/us/mlb-pitcher-mike-bolsinger-lawsuit-houston-astros-spt/index.html
Who is he gonna sue for the times he sucked before this happened?
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Who is he gonna sue for the times he sucked before this happened?
And after. I mean, show that you belong and you'll get another call-up.
Dumb lawsuit.
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Last year, PECTOA projected the following win totals for the NL Central:
MIL 89 Actual= 89
STL 89 Actual= 91
CHC 84 Actual =84
CIN 84 Actual =79
PIT 66 Actual =69
The projections for this year are:
CIN 86
CHC 85
STL 80
MIL 79
PIT 70
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Last year, PECTOA projected the following win totals for the NL Central:
MIL 89 Actual= 89
STL 89 Actual= 91
CHC 84 Actual =84
CIN 84 Actual =79
PIT 66 Actual =69
The projections for this year are:
CIN 86
CHC 85
STL 80
MIL 79
PIT 70
C’mon man, at least type Spoiler Alert when you tell us what is going to happen this season. Now I’m gonna have to find something else to do all summer
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C’mon man, at least type Spoiler Alert when you tell us what is going to happen this season. Now I’m gonna have to find something else to do all summer
I predict Braun will be dealt to a contender before July 31st. Just can't see Counsell and Stearns pulling another rabbit out of the hat this year.
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I predict Braun will be dealt to a contender before July 31st. Just can't see Counsell and Stearns pulling another rabbit out of the hat this year.
That's a bold prediction. Braun is set to make $17M this year, and had a WAR of 1.8 last season. He can block a trade to any team other than LAA, LAD, TB, MIA, or WSH. I really, really don't think he's going anywhere.
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That's a bold prediction. Braun is set to make $17M this year, and had a WAR of 1.8 last season. He can block a trade to any team other than LAA, LAD, TB, MIA, or WSH. I really, really don't think he's going anywhere.
Last year of his contract, fading vet looking for one more playoff run, and a team out of contention looking for salary relief and any decent return prospect? Doable.
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Well anyone that wasn’t considering plunking the astros this year probably will now. What a non-apology apology today.
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Last year of his contract, fading vet looking for one more playoff run, and a team out of contention looking for salary relief and any decent return prospect? Doable.
If the Brewers are even remotely in the playoff hunt, they won't trade him IMO unless there is another viable option available.
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Nice to see Woman Abuser Chapman taking the moral high ground.
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Knee surgery for Mike Clevinger.
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If the Brewers are even remotely in the playoff hunt, they won't trade him IMO unless there is another viable option available.
Brewers can’t trade him and they know it. The brewers would have liked him gone a long, long time ago.
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Brewers can’t trade him and they know it. The brewers would have liked him gone a long, long time ago.
But that's the whole point. His contract was larger "a long, long time ago." Now it only has two years left, and is actually decreasing in value. If he continues to produce offensively, his tradability goes way up.
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But that's the whole point. His contract was larger "a long, long time ago." Now it only has two years left, and is actually decreasing in value. If he continues to produce offensively, his tradability goes way up.
His contract - $16 mil for this year is not a bad value. If he is healthy and the Brewers are out of it before the trade deadline, I think they will definitely try to move him. It should be easy to do as a team that trades for him will only be on the hook for $4 mil in '21.
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His contract - $16 mil for this year is not a bad value. If he is healthy and the Brewers are out of it before the trade deadline, I think they will definitely try to move him. It should be easy to do as a team that trades for him will only be on the hook for $4 mil in '21.
Exactly.
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But that's the whole point. His contract was larger "a long, long time ago." Now it only has two years left, and is actually decreasing in value. If he continues to produce offensively, his tradability goes way up.
Sultan,
Not sure how many teams would be interested in Braun. My guess is less then a few. Brewers would be ecstatic to move off of him.
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Sultan,
Not sure how many teams would be interested in Braun. My guess is less then a few. Brewers would be ecstatic to move off of him.
Absolutely, who wouldn’t be ecstatic to unload last year’s .285/ 22/ 75, and .849 OPS. Not to mention defensive versatility, including at 1b, where question marks outside of him are huge. Not to mention final year of his contract. Plus, he’s as still clutch as they come. His grand slam last September at St Louis was arguably their clutch hit of 2019.
No, his numbers no longer support how much they’re paying this year, but your opinion is about 2 or 3 years outdated.
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Sultan,
Not sure how many teams would be interested in Braun. My guess is less then a few. Brewers would be ecstatic to move off of him.
The whole point is that a mid year trade is most definitely a possibility if the Brewers are out of it.
Absolutely, who wouldn’t be ecstatic to unload last year’s .285/ 22/ 75, and .849 OPS. Not to mention defensive versatility, including at 1b, where question marks outside of him are huge. Not to mention final year of his contract. Plus, he’s as still clutch as they come. His grand slam last September at St Louis was arguably their clutch hit of 2019.
No, his numbers no longer support how much they’re paying this year, but your opinion is about 2 or 3 years outdated.
Yep.
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Absolutely, who wouldn’t be ecstatic to unload last year’s .285/ 22/ 75, and .849 OPS. Not to mention defensive versatility, including at 1b, where question marks outside of him are huge. Not to mention final year of his contract. Plus, he’s as still clutch as they come. His grand slam last September at St Louis was arguably their clutch hit of 2019.
No, his numbers no longer support how much they’re paying this year, but your opinion is about 2 or 3 years outdated.
Yeah I’m guessing this is coming from the same source that let our pilot know everyone in the Brewers organization thinks Mark Attanosio is a cheap penny pincher.
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Absolutely, who wouldn’t be ecstatic to unload last year’s .285/ 22/ 75, and .849 OPS. Not to mention defensive versatility, including at 1b, where question marks outside of him are huge. Not to mention final year of his contract. Plus, he’s as still clutch as they come. His grand slam last September at St Louis was arguably their clutch hit of 2019.
No, his numbers no longer support how much they’re paying this year, but your opinion is about 2 or 3 years outdated.
I hear you on the numbers standpoint. But my point isn’t just about productivity, there’s other issues with Braun. I’ll leave it at that
Wades,
Feeling man enough this year to accept my offer on tickets and a meet and greet with the players?
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I hear you on the numbers standpoint. But my point isn’t just about productivity, there’s other issues with Braun. I’ll leave it at that
Wades,
Feeling man enough this year to accept my offer on tickets and a meet and greet with the players?
I’ll take the offer if wade’s won’t. How do you set up a meet and greet with players?
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Hang out on Water St., hey?
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The World Series trophy is just "a piece of metal" ... wow, did Manfred ever spit the bit on the Astros' cheating.
He came out of it looking weak and clueless, lacking both oversight and vision.
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The World Series trophy is just "a piece of metal" ... wow, did Manfred ever spit the bit on the Astros' cheating.
He came out of it looking weak and clueless, lacking both oversight and vision.
Between this and his refusal to say anything meaningful on the Marlins sale to Jeter's undefunded group, I'm really getting sick of this guy. I understand that the commissioner serves at the pleasure of the owners, and his job should always be viewed through that lens. But his defensiveness is getting to the point where it seems he has pretty open disdain for the media, the fans, and the game itself. Pretty great to have him drop gems like this and then propose large scale changes to the schedule and structure of the playoffs to draw the fans back in.
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I guess I had forgotten Brock Holt was still available. Nice pickup for MIL.
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Ross came out and just said Bryant is going to lead off. It's not such a shock on Rossy's end because they've refused to address the spot in free agency again. It's more of a kudos to Bryant who is supposedly totally on board with it, because it certainly won't help his RBI numbers going into potential free agency and his one big payday in a couple of years.
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Ross came out and just said Bryant is going to lead off. It's not such a shock on Rossy's end because they've refused to address the spot in free agency again. It's more of a kudos to Bryant who is supposedly totally on board with it, because it certainly won't help his RBI numbers going into potential free agency and his one big payday in a couple of years.
Do RBIs factor into contract negotiations anymore?
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Do RBIs factor into contract negotiations anymore?
In some cases it may. In Bryant’s case, I would say no as he will have fewer opportunities to drive in runs. They would look at his stats with runners on base rather than a cumulative category like RBI.
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Cmon... No serious GM is going to care about a drop off in RBIs. They will know why it happened if they ever worried about the stat in the first place.
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Everything means something in these negotiations. Guys who drive in runs make more than those who score them. He’s also going to have a different approach at the plate, which will likely affect his power numbers. It’s not a huge thing, but I’m sure Boras likes to have all the firepower he can get when the time comes.
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Everything means something in these negotiations. Guys who drive in runs make more than those who score them.
That’s how it used to be. Of course it used to be that a Nellie Fox was the ideal second hitter. Now most teams put their best hitter in the second slot - or the first. Will Carlos Santana or Jose Ramirez make more money than Lindor?Was JD Martinez making more than Betts? How about Springer and Bregman at the top of Houston’s order? Acuña leading off for Atlanta? RBIs are an “old” stat- don’t mean much anymore.
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That’s how it used to be. Of course it used to be that a Nellie Fox was the ideal second hitter. Now most teams put their best hitter in the second slot - or the first. Will Carlos Santana or Jose Ramirez make more money than Lindor?Was JD Martinez making more than Betts? How about Springer and Bregman at the top of Houston’s order? Acuña leading off for Atlanta? RBIs are an “old” stat- don’t mean much anymore.
Pretty sure Nellie Fox is would still be an ideal 2 hitter. Or 8 hitter. Or lead off hitter. The guy was a great hitter. From 1949- 1960 he averaged .300-.360-.378. Sure not a lot of pop, but still a pretty ideal guy to have hitting at the top of an order. And the power numbers between then and now are hardly comparable.
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Everything means something in these negotiations. Guys who drive in runs make more than those who score them.
Correlation is not causation.
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Fun Nellie Fox Fact!
Tony Gwynn's strike out rate, of 4.2% was more than double that of Nellie Fox. 2 out of the last 4 years, there have been players that struck out more in that season than Fox did in his entire career (2367 games).
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Pretty sure Nellie Fox is would still be an ideal 2 hitter. Or 8 hitter. Or lead off hitter. The guy was a great hitter. From 1949- 1960 he averaged .300-.360-.378. Sure not a lot of pop, but still a pretty ideal guy to have hitting at the top of an order. And the power numbers between then and now are hardly comparable.
Fox was one of my favorites growing up (Minnie Minoso was my absolute favorite). Not putting him down, but “didn’t have a lot of pop”? C’mon - 35 lifetime HRs, career .363 slugging %, etc - so almost no pop. He “used to be” the ideal #2 hitter. Could take strikes and still make contact deep in the count (helping Aparicio steal bases), great bunter (for hits or sacrifices), etc. Now, nobody bunts or cares about strikeouts and most teams put their best hitter in the 2 hole.
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Fox was one of my favorites growing up (Minnie Minoso was my absolute favorite). Not putting him down, but “didn’t have a lot of pop”? C’mon - 35 lifetime HRs, career .363 slugging %, etc - so almost no pop. He “used to be” the ideal #2 hitter. Could take strikes and still make contact deep in the count (helping Aparicio steal bases), great bunter (for hits or sacrifices), etc. Now, nobody bunts or cares about strikeouts and most teams put their best hitter in the 2 hole.
Don't disagree but sort of moot re the 59 Sox. Who was a better hitter than Fox? (59 champs) Al Smith? Jim Landis? Earl Torgeson? Jim McAnany? Sherm Lollar?
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Don't disagree but sort of moot re the 59 Sox. Who was a better hitter than Fox? (59 champs) Al Smith? Jim Landis? Earl Torgeson? Jim McAnany? Sherm Lollar?
The “Go Go Sox” of 1959 didn’t have much in the way of hitting. Aparicio stole bases, Fox hit singles, Smith and Lollar provided occasional power. (Minoso was in Cleveland that year but returned the following year) They picked up Ted Klusewski (sp?) late and he hit some bombs. Mostly it was pitching and defense up the middle. Bob Shaw was 18-6 that year and I think Early Wynn won 22 or 23. Billy Pierce was past his prime but decent and Dick Donovan rounded out an excellent rotation. Gerry Staley and Turk Lown anchored a solid bullpen. They won a ton of low scoring one run games.
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Fox was one of my favorites growing up (Minnie Minoso was my absolute favorite). Not putting him down, but %u201Cdidn%u2019t have a lot of pop%u201D? C%u2019mon - 35 lifetime HRs, career .363 slugging %, etc - so almost no pop. He %u201Cused to be%u201D the ideal #2 hitter. Could take strikes and still make contact deep in the count (helping Aparicio steal bases), great bunter (for hits or sacrifices), etc. Now, nobody bunts or cares about strikeouts and most teams put their best hitter in the 2 hole.
Obviously lineup construction has changed, but I can't imagine any team would hesitate to put a .350 (Fox's career number was .348) OBP guy hitting 2nd. A guy that I think of as a similar type is Whit Merrifield. A .300-.350 type hitter. Even in today's game, pretty ideal for a 2 hitter, though he typically hits leadoff I think. And yeah he hits more homeruns, but everyone does (and heck,with the lower mound and last year's baseball, Nellie may have hit 35 bombs. ;))
Maybe a better question is, what team is going to hit a .350 OBP guy toward the bottom of the lineup?
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Correlation is not causation.
Josh Hader lost his arbitration case because of his saves number. HRs and RBIs were strikes against Realmuto. Those numbers still matter for compensation, at least in arbitration.
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The “Go Go Sox” of 1959 didn’t have much in the way of hitting. Aparicio stole bases, Fox hit singles, Smith and Lollar provided occasional power. (Minoso was in Cleveland that year but returned the following year) They picked up Ted Klusewski (sp?) late and he hit some bombs. Mostly it was pitching and defense up the middle. Bob Shaw was 18-6 that year and I think Early Wynn won 22 or 23. Billy Pierce was past his prime but decent and Dick Donovan rounded out an excellent rotation. Gerry Staley and Turk Lown anchored a solid bullpen. They won a ton of low scoring one run games.
Don't forget Buba Phillips and jim Rivera. And John "Honey" Romano.
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Josh Hader lost his arbitration case because of his saves number. HRs and RBIs were strikes against Realmuto. Those numbers still matter for compensation, at least in arbitration.
I thought Bryant was a UFA next year. Not that he had one arb year left. You are correct that these stats matter in these hearings because everyone maniuplates whatever data they can in these situations. I was thinking more in terms of when a player hits the open market.
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Don't forget Buba Phillips and jim Rivera. And John "Honey" Romano.
Or Billy Goodman, who platooned with Bubba at 3rd.
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Sox and Moncada are hammering out a big extension, at least six years, with player and team options to push it out further. Will buy out his arb years, and by his late 20's pay him $20 mil a year.
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Probably a long shot to find anyone here, but....
Starting a new $350 MLB Keeper League on Yahoo. This will be the inaugural season. 12 team H2H 7x7 stat categories. 100% payout (payouts below). I currently have 11 managers, but only about half of those are paid so plenty of spots left. Looking to try to fill this league within the next couple days, so if you have any interest, shoot me a PM and I will get you more info or whatever else you need.
Keepers will be pretty straight forward - get to keep 4 players. All players drafted in top 3 rounds not allowed as keepers. You get the keep the player the following season in the round in which you drafted them in current season (ie: draft Vlad Guerrero Jr in 5th round this spring, you get to keep him in 5th round next year, etc.)
Payouts as follows:
1st Place Regular Season: $1000
2nd Place Regular Season:$600
3rd Place Regular Season: $350
1st place Playoffs: $1,500
2nd Place Playoffs: $750
Draft is Tuesday March 24th at 8pm CT.
Thanks!
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Probably a long shot to find anyone here, but....
Starting a new $350 MLB Keeper League on Yahoo. This will be the inaugural season. 12 team H2H 7x7 stat categories. 100% payout (payouts below). I currently have 11 managers, but only about half of those are paid so plenty of spots left. Looking to try to fill this league within the next couple days, so if you have any interest, shoot me a PM and I will get you more info or whatever else you need.
Keepers will be pretty straight forward - get to keep 4 players. All players drafted in top 3 rounds not allowed as keepers. You get the keep the player the following season in the round in which you drafted them in current season (ie: draft Vlad Guerrero Jr in 5th round this spring, you get to keep him in 5th round next year, etc.)
Payouts as follows:
1st Place Regular Season: $1000
2nd Place Regular Season:$600
3rd Place Regular Season: $350
1st place Playoffs: $1,500
2nd Place Playoffs: $750
Draft is Tuesday March 24th at 8pm CT.
Thanks!
Still got a couple spots in this guy.
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Auction or snake draft?
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Probably a long shot to find anyone here, but....
Starting a new $350 MLB Keeper League on Yahoo. This will be the inaugural season. 12 team H2H 7x7 stat categories. 100% payout (payouts below). I currently have 11 managers, but only about half of those are paid so plenty of spots left. Looking to try to fill this league within the next couple days, so if you have any interest, shoot me a PM and I will get you more info or whatever else you need.
Keepers will be pretty straight forward - get to keep 4 players. All players drafted in top 3 rounds not allowed as keepers. You get the keep the player the following season in the round in which you drafted them in current season (ie: draft Vlad Guerrero Jr in 5th round this spring, you get to keep him in 5th round next year, etc.)
Payouts as follows:
1st Place Regular Season: $1000
2nd Place Regular Season:$600
3rd Place Regular Season: $350
1st place Playoffs: $1,500
2nd Place Playoffs: $750
Draft is Tuesday March 24th at 8pm CT.
Thanks!
Much too thick for my blood. I'm curious as to how the "playoffs" work for you; I've only done rotisserie leagues. Are the playoffs the last 4 weeks? Two weeks? What if your stud has nothing to play for in September, and gets shut down (Trout last season, for example)?
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Brews close to a 7-year deal with Yelich.
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Brews close to a 7-year deal with Yelich.
Good for everyone.
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Brews close to a 7-year deal with Yelich.
$30-35 million/year
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Auction or snake draft?
Snake. 11/12 spots paid. Only 1 spot left.
Much too thick for my blood. I'm curious as to how the "playoffs" work for you; I've only done rotisserie leagues. Are the playoffs the last 4 weeks? Two weeks? What if your stud has nothing to play for in September, and gets shut down (Trout last season, for example)?
6 teams make playoffs. Top 2 get byes. Final playoff week is Sep 14-20, so not all the way to the bitter end. Baseball isn't like football where guys just don't play at the end of the season, for the most part. Wasn't Trout hurt end of last season?
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$30-35 million/year
But Mark A is a cheap penny pincher and suggesting he'd ever open his pocketbook is laughable. ::)
I had a feeling a big extension was coming for Yeli when the Brewers were letting everyone they could walk. Yeli was dirt cheap for the production he was giving the Brewers. Good for him and good for the team.
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$30-35 million/year
Actually less than 25 per year. 9 years 215 million.
Extension is 7 for 190ish
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Shockin', hey?
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But Mark A is a cheap penny pincher and suggesting he'd ever open his pocketbook is laughable. ::)
I had a feeling a big extension was coming for Yeli when the Brewers were letting everyone they could walk. Yeli was dirt cheap for the production he was giving the Brewers. Good for him and good for the team.
Yeah, I won’t even go into ROI with you on this one wades. Don’t want you to feel dumb. If you’re ever around and want to talk to some of the brewers management and ask them their personal thoughts, let me know
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Yeah, I won’t even go into ROI with you on this one wades. Don’t want you to feel dumb. If you’re ever around and want to talk to some of the brewers management and ask them their personal thoughts, let me know
Please, have at it. I don’t think you will.
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Actually less than 25 per year. 9 years 215 million.
Extension is 7 for 190ish
Maybe....
The new contract might take effect this year and replace the last 2 years on the old one.
We don't know details yet.
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Maybe....
The new contract might take effect this year and replace the last 2 years on the old one.
We don't know details yet.
The report is he’ll make $215M total and be with the Brewers through the 2028 season.
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Please, have at it. I don’t think you will.
Why don’t you take him up in the offer? You might get to meet the manager of the club house food service! :o
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#donedeal
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Source confirms: Moncada five-year extension is for $70M. Exercising of club option can bring total value to $90M. On it: @BNightengale.
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#donedeal
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal
Source confirms: Moncada five-year extension is for $70M. Exercising of club option can bring total value to $90M. On it: @BNightengale.
There's no team in sports that does these extensions better than the White Sox. They maximize asset value on these contracts so well (there's plenty of things they don't do well on the flip side).
Anderson, Moncada, Robert, Jimenez are all signed through 2025, at more than affordable salaries. I'd imagine Giolito will be next and get something like a 4yr/$60ish contract coming his way soon.
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There's no team in sports that does these extensions better than the White Sox. They maximize asset value on these contracts so well (there's plenty of things they don't do well on the flip side).
Anderson, Moncada, Robert, Jimenez are all signed through 2025, at more than affordable salaries. I'd imagine Giolito will be next and get something like a 4yr/$60ish contract coming his way soon.
Just curious.. what's the White Sox extension which we know has worked out well?
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There's no team in sports that does these extensions better than the White Sox. They maximize asset value on these contracts so well (there's plenty of things they don't do well on the flip side).
Anderson, Moncada, Robert, Jimenez are all signed through 2025, at more than affordable salaries. I'd imagine Giolito will be next and get something like a 4yr/$60ish contract coming his way soon.
Learned lessons from John Hart who did this for Cleveland back a decade or more ago. I've often wondered why more teams didn't do it.
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Just curious.. what's the White Sox extension which we know has worked out well?
Chris Sale
Jose Quintana
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Learned lessons from John Hart who did this for Cleveland back a decade or more ago. I've often wondered why more teams didn't do it.
This is a really good post, well done on the memory bank (no pun intended). Hart did do this and kept that team really really good for a long time.
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Chris Sale
Jose Quintana
Adam Eaton?
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Adam Eaton?
Yes, Eaton as well.
Having good young players on long term, below market contracts, is great leverage.
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This is a really good post, well done on the memory bank (no pun intended). Hart did do this and kept that team really really good for a long time.
You're one of the great posters here on Scoop. You always post with class - something that I, so far at least, fail miserably at.
Now, if you could just lose the Ditka avatar .... :-\
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Chris Sale
Jose Quintana
Because of the guys you got in return on the previous post? Bit of a circular answer.
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nm.
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You're one of the great posters here on Scoop. You always post with class - something that I, so far at least, fail miserably at.
Now, if you could just lose the Ditka avatar .... :-\
Ha, the Ditka avatar isn’t even because I’m a Bears fan. It’s because he’s obnoxiously tan in that picture and looks like a clown. Thanks man.
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Because of the guys you got in return on the previous post? Bit of a circular answer.
I understand what you're saying, which young player that they signed to a good contract, "paid off" (bad pun) for them in a Sox uniform. You're not wrong, in the case of Sale/Quintana, the team made terrible decisions elsewhere (Adam Dunn, Laroche, etc.), and the rest of their roster, quite frankly, sucked.
The Sox ability though to sign Sale/Quintana/Eaton to very team friendly deals, while they were in their prime, led to the return on those trades to be greater than it otherwise might have been. Those three guys value wasn't just in their talent, but one could argue their contracts were their value.
Front office of the White Sox is far from perfect, but they have shown an ability to sign pre-arb, good talent, to long term, team friendly deals. Other teams have done it as well, the Sox in particular though have done it as much, or more than any team recently I can think of.
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christian yelich 9/10 years $215 mil
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christian yelich 9/10 years $215 mil
Just awesome
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christian yelich 9/10 years $215 mil
Just as important no opt outs or team options. Was never discussed. Wants to be a Brewer for life. No Nolan Arenado situation.
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Just as important no opt outs or team options. Was never discussed. Wants to be a Brewer for life. No Nolan Arenado situation.
Comes with his own scoreboard video crew.
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Just as important no opt outs or team options. Was never discussed. Wants to be a Brewer for life. No Nolan Arenado situation.
This is the key. Someday Yeli will replace Yount as the goodwill ambassador in Arizona. Until then I hope he continues his MVP level play.
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Yelich should open up a restaurant with Aaron Rodgers while also selling MMA-inspired T-shirts.
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Comes with his own scoreboard video crew.
Man oh man I hope this isn't true.
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Yelich should open up a restaurant with Aaron Rodgers while also selling MMA-inspired T-shirts.
Hope they serve buffalo chicken ravioli.
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Any talk of the start of the baseball season being put on hold? March 26 only 2 weeks away.
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Any talk of the start of the baseball season being put on hold? March 26 only 2 weeks away.
Haven't heard anything league-wise, but SF has banned gatherings of over 1,000 people.
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I follow Rosiak on Twitter. Anyone else?
It's almost surreal to see all of the cancellations, changes, health updates, etc., on the timeline and then Rosiak is near live tweeting a spring training game with a full house of fans.
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I follow Rosiak on Twitter. Anyone else?
It's almost surreal to see all of the cancellations, changes, health updates, etc., on the timeline and then Rosiak is near live tweeting a spring training game with a full house of fans.
Had the same thought. Second thought is that MLB has really effed up this offseason. The cheating scandal with accusations of not enough action, followed by seemingly no action in the face of a pandemic is.... Not a good look.
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Any talk of the start of the baseball season being put on hold? March 26 only 2 weeks away.
I heard playing games only in Florida & Arizona to empty stadiums to start the season.
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Sounds like May 1 will be opening day. They’re still ironing it out with owners and the cdc
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Season delay of at least 2 weeks.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28892315/sources-mlb-expected-suspend-spring-training
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Sounds like at least July before baseball gets going.
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Sounds like at least July before baseball gets going.
I'm hoping for an early to mid June start as a best case scenario.
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Happy Opening Day, everyone. It (was) my favorite day of the year.
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Why in the world did they schedule Opening Day to be the same day as the Sweet Sixteen?
Karma. No wonder the world is going haywire.
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https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/astros/article/Ex-Astros-Hinch-Luhnow-suspension-count-2020-15174568.php (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/astros/article/Ex-Astros-Hinch-Luhnow-suspension-count-2020-15174568.php)
Former Astros cheating even when baseball is off.
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Teams considering playing games in Arizona.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29004498/mlb-union-focused-plan-allow-season-start-early-arizona
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It would be nice to be able to watch.
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I just don't see how that plan is in any way feasible. Any plan that would require players in the middle of a pandemic to leave their families for four months isn't going to work.
I can see games without fans at home ballparks. With players travelling as they do now with family in attendance. That to me is a minimum of what it is going to take for this to work.
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Al Kaline dead at 85. Batting champ at 20, HOFer, all around great guy. RIP
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I don't think this is a surprise to anyone, but I have heard from a good source, that MLB is going to find some way (covid-19 be damned) to have some type of season. That's not breaking any news, but what I heard (reckless speculation) is there is a team that is in severe enough financial trouble that a lost season would potentially cause that franchise to collapse.
You can probably easily figure out which franchise that is.
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I don't think this is a surprise to anyone, but I have heard from a good source, that MLB is going to find some way (covid-19 be damned) to have some type of season. That's not breaking any news, but what I heard (reckless speculation) is there is a team that is in severe enough financial trouble that a lost season would potentially cause that franchise to collapse.
You can probably easily figure out which franchise that is.
I'll miss you, Exrays.
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I'll miss you, Exrays.
Right state, wrong sea creature.
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Right state, wrong sea creature.
Poor Jeter.
Saw today, the marlins are the only franchise worth under $1b per forbes(?).
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Poor Jeter.
Saw today, the marlins are the only franchise worth under $1b per forbes(?).
Hopefully he gets a gift bag on the way out.
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Hopefully he gets a gift bag on the way out.
A Brockmire gift basket would be charming.
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The next MLB thought. Everyone plays at their spring training sites without fans and the Grapefruit and Cactus Leagues will be divided into divisions.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2020/04/10/mlb-realignment-league-considers-radical-move-for-2020-season/5128935002/
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The next MLB thought. Everyone plays at their spring training sites without fans and the Grapefruit and Cactus Leagues will be divided into divisions.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2020/04/10/mlb-realignment-league-considers-radical-move-for-2020-season/5128935002/
They are hell bent on having a season, absolutely hell bent, no matter what.
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I think it's a fun idea, plus expanded playoffs. I'm sure 50% of fans would say it doesn't count and whoever wins the World Series isn't a real champion, though.
Love the Brewers division!
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I think it's a fun idea, plus expanded playoffs. I'm sure 50% of fans would say it doesn't count and whoever wins the World Series isn't a real champion, though.
Love the Brewers division!
Summer day games in FL and AZ? Oof.
Would still like to see some kind of season, this is better than no baseball, as long as they could stay quarantined amongst themselves.
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Summer day games in FL and AZ? Oof.
Would still like to see some kind of season, this is better than no baseball, as long as they could stay quarantined amongst themselves.
I believe the idea is to play most of the games in the Trop, Miami, and Chase Field. 7 innings, staggered times, from 11am local to night.
Almost like little league where you just have teams/games at one field all day.
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I believe the idea is to play most of the games in the Trop, Miami, and Chase Field. 7 innings, staggered times, from 11am local to night.
Almost like little league where you just have teams/games at one field all day.
Sign up sheets for whose turn it is to bring the snacks?
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I believe the idea is to play most of the games in the Trop, Miami, and Chase Field. 7 innings, staggered times, from 11am local to night.
If you can't even have a regulation game what is the point?
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If you can't even have a regulation game what is the point?
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/956340376235153656/106040938130EDF1A9D7E6CB0355A1A682528678/)
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Whatever this MLB season is, it's going to be wacky.
7 inning games
Doubleheaders
Robo strike zone (good!)
DH for all (good!)
No traditional AL/NL leagues
35 (?) man rosters
Some type of extra inning mechanism (runner on 2nd or whatever)
No mound meetings (good!)
If a player gets traded from Florida to Arizona or vice versa, will he have to be quarantined for 14 days?
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Hell, why not try all the whacky sh*t in one season!
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The whole thing is wacky. What I wish MLB would do would be this:
1) Start the season with the All-Star Game and a celebration of baseball.
2) Reschedule the season with 16 games against a team's divisional opponents (16*4=64).
3) Schedule an additional 20 games against the corresponding division in the other league (20 games, five teams, two home and two road games against the corresponding league's divisional teams).
4) Means you play 84 games -- a short season for MLB but a chance for teams to test themselves across enough games to make the best teams rise to the top. Also means that the teams that come in to play you are the teams most likely to be a home team's rivals for fans and interest. That, in turn should make for more interesting baseball and make it possible for baseball fans to travel.
This scenario would leave the month of June to re-start Summer Training. Every team would go to their Florida or Arizona facilities and practice and get in playing shape. Whether spectators would be allowed depends on where we were in coronavirus. Teams could arrange scrimmages against their neighbors. The Cardinals, for example, could scrimmage the Marlins, Astros and Nationals because these teams won't see each other in the regular season, making the results more reasonable for preparation.
This sure as heck beats playing MLB in empty stadiums. It also sure as heck beats summer without baseball. That would make summer intolerable.
The biggest downside to this is that about 37.5 percent of the season would be played in September, directly against the NFL and college football. But this needs to happen as a means of pulling America out of its Covid-19 induced funk and to create some excitement. I know Governor Toilets in Illinois is warning against it, but we need something like this. Even if it is the Cubs!!!!
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You are making the assumption that crowds will be allowed later in the summer or in fall. Not sure that’s a safe assumption.
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All the ideas MLB is kicking around reminds me of the scene in Argo, where the CIA guys were all kicking around ideas to get the hostages out, and Bryan Cranston's character eventually remarks "this is the best worst idea we've got".
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Whatever this MLB season is, it's going to be wacky.
7 inning games
Doubleheaders
Robo strike zone (good!)
DH for all (good!)
No traditional AL/NL leagues
35 (?) man rosters
Some type of extra inning mechanism (runner on 2nd or whatever)
No mound meetings (good!)
If a player gets traded from Florida to Arizona or vice versa, will he have to be quarantined for 14 days?
Thinks of what Craig Counsell would do with 7 inning games and expanded rosters
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MaleSophisticatedFowl-max-1mb.gif)
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Thinks of what Craig Counsell would do with 7 inning games and expanded rosters
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MaleSophisticatedFowl-max-1mb.gif)
Haha this was my thought. If no 3 batter to rule, games might take longer being only 7 innings.
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The next MLB thought. Everyone plays at their spring training sites without fans and the Grapefruit and Cactus Leagues will be divided into divisions.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2020/04/10/mlb-realignment-league-considers-radical-move-for-2020-season/5128935002/
Its admittedly better than the all-Arizona idea. But not much.
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You are making the assumption that crowds will be allowed later in the summer or in fall. Not sure that’s a safe assumption.
I'd say its actually quite unlikely.
By late summer people may be returning to work or going out to eat, but we won't get crowds in pro sports stadiums until there is a widely-available vaccine. It is as simple as that.
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Its admittedly better than the all-Arizona idea. But not much.
It sucks. At some point, we need baseball. We need a warm summer afternoon (OK, blazing hot summer evening if you’re in St. Louis), below average food, plenty of ice cold Budweiser, great baseball by guys with a birds on bat logo on their shirts and a great seat that I copped a bargain for.
As much as I love baseball (and I truly do), television baseball is like video porn. It’s a whole lot more fun to be there than it is to watch it on TV.
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I'd say its actually quite unlikely.
By late summer people may be returning to work or going out to eat, but we won't get crowds in pro sports stadiums until there is a widely-available vaccine. It is as simple as that.
What about spacing 15 or 20 thousands fans in a 45-50 thousand seat stadium? Is that apossibility?
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What about spacing 15 or 20 thousands fans in a 45-50 thousand seat stadium? Is that apossibility?
When they are in their seats sure. But entering and exiting the stadium, concession stands, bathrooms, etc. Not likely.
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When they are in their seats sure. But entering and exiting the stadium, concession stands, bathrooms, etc. Not likely.
Exactly. I was trying to think of ways to do that for hoops next year. Just getting in your need like an entrance time with the ticket you have, and people would have to start going in hours before the game starts just to space out the entrance. I just don’t know how it works.
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If we are still worrying about this in July at this level, we will have a lot bigger problems that how to space out baseball fans.
That is what scares me the most about coronavirus.
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If we are still worrying about this in July at this level, we will have a lot bigger problems that how to space out baseball fans.
That is what scares me the most about coronavirus.
We will be worrying about this in July.
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What about spacing 15 or 20 thousands fans in a 45-50 thousand seat stadium? Is that apossibility?
The Marlins, Rays, A's, pirates, O's have been doing this for years.
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We will be worrying about this in July.
Depends on how we worry. If you believe that it won’t be good enough by July to have spectator sports, I’m fearful the economy will be in utter collapse. Millions on millions will be unemployed and the implication on social, political and economic order will be huge.
At some point, this country has to take a calculated risk and return to normal. Otherwise, the pain and suffering we all will face will be beyond anything we’ve experienced since the dawn of the 20th Century. I hope we come up with a vaccine but even if we don’t, at some point life has to return to something close to normal.
The people who need the economy to function best (and who know the least about what I’m talking about) will be the people hurting the most.
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Depends on how we worry. If you believe that it won’t be good enough by July to have spectator sports, I’m fearful the economy will be in utter collapse. Millions on millions will be unemployed and the implication on social, political and economic order will be huge.
At some point, this country has to take a calculated risk and return to normal. Otherwise, the pain and suffering we all will face will be beyond anything we’ve experienced since the dawn of the 20th Century. I hope we come up with a vaccine but even if we don’t, at some point life has to return to something close to normal.
The people who need the economy to function best (and who know the least about what I’m talking about) will be the people hurting the most.
People will be back to work. Bars and restaurants will be open to some extent. Spectacular sports wont be around for awhile.
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People will be back to work. Bars and restaurants will be open to some extent. Spectacular sports wont be around for awhile.
Brother Fluff,
I hope you’re right. I really do.
But we’re operating without a playbook right now. And bureaucracies don’t function without a playbook. The dribble I keep hearing is that this is going to last and last and last with no end in sight — and we’re all going to have to stay locked up and away from our communities until ____________ (fill in the blank with your favorite commentator’s fear mongering).
There has to be a balance of risk taking between medical, social, economic and even political factors. At some point, we’ll stop seeing this as the Andromeda Strain and see it more as a particularly aggressive flu.
That’s when baseball will be back!
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It sucks. At some point, we need baseball. We need a warm summer afternoon (OK, blazing hot summer evening if you’re in St. Louis), below average food, plenty of ice cold Budweiser, great baseball by guys with a birds on bat logo on their shirts and a great seat that I copped a bargain for.
As much as I love baseball (and I truly do), television baseball is like video porn. It’s a whole lot more fun to be there than it is to watch it on TV.
Word.
Go cards
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When they are in their seats sure. But entering and exiting the stadium, concession stands, bathrooms, etc. Not likely.
Maybe no concessions, monitors for bathrooms and for entering/exiting?
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The Marlins, Rays, A's, pirates, O's have been doing this for years.
White Sox
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White Sox
Lenny said
What about spacing 15 or 20 thousands fans in a 45-50 thousand seat stadium? Is that apossibility?
I don't think of the Sox in the 15-20k range.
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Maybe no concessions, monitors for bathrooms and for entering/exiting?
I think the tought is that this is too much trouble considering there are going to be a myriad of local rules to deal with, and still potentially risky anyway, so play with empty stands. And if you are playing with empty stands, why not just do it in Arizona or Florida to minimize travel.
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Brother Fluff,
I hope you’re right. I really do.
But we’re operating without a playbook right now. And bureaucracies don’t function without a playbook. The dribble I keep hearing is that this is going to last and last and last with no end in sight — and we’re all going to have to stay locked up and away from our communities until ____________ (fill in the blank with your favorite commentator’s fear mongering).
There has to be a balance of risk taking between medical, social, economic and even political factors. At some point, we’ll stop seeing this as the Andromeda Strain and see it more as a particularly aggressive flu.
That’s when baseball will be back!
Baseball (like everything else) will be back when we have wide spread testing - in other words, not for quite a while.
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I was reading an article a week or two ago, and the entire concession process at sports/entertainment venues is going to have to change. One big issue is most buildings use stainless steel at concession areas. That’s a big no bueno moving forward. Condiments in public concession areas will be gone. No more vendors walking around selling beer (good luck having 4 people pass down beer/money from the dude in the middle of a section to the vendor at the aisle).
Sporting events/concerts/etc have to completely change their experience model. That’s a lot of revenue and jobs that are going to be impacted. I don’t see any spectators in sporting events for a long time.
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What about spacing 15 or 20 thousands fans in a 45-50 thousand seat stadium? Is that apossibility?
A possibility? In Tampa and Miami, it's a reason to celebrate!
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Roy Halladay on amphetamines when he ceased his plane while practicing stunts.
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My prediction, or at least proposal....we will have a MLB season starting on or around July 4. The symbolism will be too great to pass up. Maybe an All-Star game to kick it off. Have fans start voting online June 1. Give us something to talk about.
There will be no spectators. The Spring training locations were a decent idea but I don't think players will want to play there in the heat of summer. Maybe instead at one ballpark per division. But you do a ballpark from a different division so there is no home field advantage. Keep players from AL or NL West quarantined in hotels in one location (Milwaukee and Miller Park could actually be ideal due to the dome option and climate control), and do the same for each division. NL Central plays in a AL/NL East or AL/NL West stadium. Domes wherever possible to keep scheduling tight and minimize rainouts. All games are divisional matchups for the abbreviated regular season. Since there's no fans you can do multiple games per day if you need: a daytime matchup and a nighttime matchup. 4 teams from the division play each day. One team gets a day off. No series in the scheduling, so the days off rotate for each team everyday. Every team gets a day off every 4 days. No travel for the whole season. Something to that effect.
Have an 8 team playoff - division winners and the otherwise best record in the league for the Wild Card. All games for both league playoff rounds are in the same city for each league - same deal - quarantined, no fans. A neutral stadium of a team that didn't make the playoffs. No homefield advantages. World Series also in a neutral stadium. No homefield advantage. No travel required. Teams quarantined, no fans. Pick domes to minimize threat of rainouts. AL playoffs in Miller Park. NL Playoffs in Seattle. Something like that.
Rapid testing of players before each game. Anyone infected goes into quarantine for the requisite number of days.
There will be TV revenue, but players will need to take a paycut, perhaps 50%. But they will get paid something.
Experiment and take some risks with the TV broadcasts to up fan interest, since there is no one in the stands. Mic up managers, umpires and/or players. Do video interviews between innings. Have advanced analytics/sabermetrics on screen.
It isn't ideal, but we would be able to watch baseball.
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Coleman, I don't think you have a bad plan here, but I don't see how they can do an All-Star game. Too much travelling from one group back to another.
Part of the hold up will be that players don't want to separate from their families for an extended length of time.
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Coleman, I don't think you have a bad plan here, but I don't see how they can do an All-Star game. Too much travelling from one group back to another.
Part of the hold up will be that players don't want to separate from their families for an extended length of time.
Maybe you're right about the All Star Game.
I think the rest of it could work. Players will be gone for like 4 months (July, August, September, October). But they've been home since October 2019, except for the brief stint at the beginning of spring training. And they will get paid.
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How many of these guys still want to be home with their families?
For every Zobrist, there’s 5 Palmeiros.
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How many of these guys still want to be home with their families?
For every Zobrist, there’s 5 Palmeiros.
Whether they like it or not, the Fact of the matter is they are used to being gone from their families half of the time from February through October anyway. 4 months straight isn’t that much worse.
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Whether they like it or not, the Fact of the matter is they are used to being gone from their families half of the time from February through October anyway. 4 months straight isn’t that much worse.
They're usually not gone from their families all summer. Their families usually join them.
I agree that they may not have much choice if they want to earn a paycheck this year, but they are going to have to approve whatever plan they come up with.
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Gang, if you're this pessimistic about getting folks back together and beginning to again act like people, then Good God, do you have any idea what's going to happen to this country?
Oscar Munoz, Chairman and CEO of United Airlines, put out a very dismal forecast for his airline for the rest of this year, predicated on very pessimistic assumptions about when United would be back to normal. In essence, he's more than a little worried that the nation's second largest airline will collapse by year-end. And I'm confident United is not alone in the airline sector. Nor is the airline sector alone in facing severe economic trauma!
We simply cannot exist walled up in our homes. While I'd argue that more than a few tech-oriented Millennial-geeks would be more than excited about it, commerce, society, religion and a host of other activities is predicated on human interaction and, dare I say, contact. As Catholics, for example, we seek the assurance and love of a community of believers and gain strength from coming together. Mass isn't something you watch on TV, for long!
Frankly, the longer SIP goes, the more likely it becomes that individuals will simply say, "screw it... I've had it!"
If we restrict interaction, travel, commerce and other things to either economically or politically blessed individuals, God help us.
For that reason, BRING ON BASEBALL -- WITH AN AUDIENCE!!!!!!
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You fail to understand there is a fundamental difference to opening up an economy so people can safely go to a restaurant, bar or retail shop, and allowing tens of thousands of people to attend a sporting event.
Read this:
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/coronavirus-how-a-champions-league-match-contributed-to-italys-covid-19-outbreak/
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Gang, if you're this pessimistic about getting folks back together and beginning to again act like people, then Good God, do you have any idea what's going to happen to this country?
Oscar Munoz, Chairman and CEO of United Airlines, put out a very dismal forecast for his airline for the rest of this year, predicated on very pessimistic assumptions about when United would be back to normal. In essence, he's more than a little worried that the nation's second largest airline will collapse by year-end. And I'm confident United is not alone in the airline sector. Nor is the airline sector alone in facing severe economic trauma!
We simply cannot exist walled up in our homes. While I'd argue that more than a few tech-oriented Millennial-geeks would be more than excited about it, commerce, society, religion and a host of other activities is predicated on human interaction and, dare I say, contact. As Catholics, for example, we seek the assurance and love of a community of believers and gain strength from coming together. Mass isn't something you watch on TV, for long!
Frankly, the longer SIP goes, the more likely it becomes that individuals will simply say, "screw it... I've had it!"
If we restrict interaction, travel, commerce and other things to either economically or politically blessed individuals, God help us.
For that reason, BRING ON BASEBALL -- WITH AN AUDIENCE!!!!!!
Don't worry, Oscar will get a lot of money from the government!
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Gang, if you're this pessimistic about getting folks back together and beginning to again act like people, then Good God, do you have any idea what's going to happen to this country?
Oscar Munoz, Chairman and CEO of United Airlines, put out a very dismal forecast for his airline for the rest of this year, predicated on very pessimistic assumptions about when United would be back to normal. In essence, he's more than a little worried that the nation's second largest airline will collapse by year-end. And I'm confident United is not alone in the airline sector. Nor is the airline sector alone in facing severe economic trauma!
We simply cannot exist walled up in our homes. While I'd argue that more than a few tech-oriented Millennial-geeks would be more than excited about it, commerce, society, religion and a host of other activities is predicated on human interaction and, dare I say, contact. As Catholics, for example, we seek the assurance and love of a community of believers and gain strength from coming together. Mass isn't something you watch on TV, for long!
Frankly, the longer SIP goes, the more likely it becomes that individuals will simply say, "screw it... I've had it!"
If we restrict interaction, travel, commerce and other things to either economically or politically blessed individuals, God help us.
For that reason, BRING ON BASEBALL -- WITH AN AUDIENCE!!!!!!
Yeah, no
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You fail to understand there is a fundamental difference to opening up an economy so people can safely go to a restaurant, bar or retail shop, and allowing tens of thousands of people to attend a sporting event.
Read this:
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/coronavirus-how-a-champions-league-match-contributed-to-italys-covid-19-outbreak/
Fluffy, you're such a millennial. Or socialist. Or anti-american.
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Fluffy, you're such a millennial. Or socialist. Or anti-american.
All of the above?
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You fail to understand there is a fundamental difference to opening up an economy so people can safely go to a restaurant, bar or retail shop, and allowing tens of thousands of people to attend a sporting event.
Read this:
https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/coronavirus-how-a-champions-league-match-contributed-to-italys-covid-19-outbreak/
OK, where do you start limiting?
Are religious services allowed? How about opening the parks, beaches, and other public locales?
In Florida, Disney plans to reopen June 1, which means Universal and Sea World reopen the same day. If it is later, what do you do about the 2.0 million people or so who live in the Metro Orlando region and whose livelihoods feast on tourism?
Or about Saturday nights when hundreds of people cram into bars in Chicago? How many restaurants can survive when tables are properly social distanced? From what we knew before the restaurants closed down here, not many!
Sure, none of these things are essential to life in the United States. But they're critical to our national well-being.
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Yes it is a tricky balance. Large crowds at sporting events are the last things that will happen IMO.
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Yes it is a tricky balance. Large crowds at sporting events are the last things that will happen IMO.
Donald thinks that’s back by mid August or early September. So if that’s the last step we’re going to see some rapid progress!
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The Yahoo article about Disney’s Wide World of Sports complex hosting the NBA is brilliant. MLB and the NFL could follow suit. I’m surprised this idea hasn’t gained more momentum, it makes perfect sense.
MLB games in the day wouldn’t be great with the heat/humidity, but you can play games early 11am and at night on their 5 MLB fields. The Trop is an easy drive, you could play three games there each day as well.
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The Yahoo article about Disney’s Wide World of Sports complex hosting the NBA is brilliant. MLB and the NFL could follow suit. I’m surprised this idea hasn’t gained more momentum, it makes perfect sense.
MLB games in the day wouldn’t be great with the heat/humidity, but you can play games early 11am and at night on their 5 MLB fields. The Trop is an easy drive, you could play three games there each day as well.
Brother Dish, there is a reason why Marlins Park and Tropicana Field are domed stadiums. It’s miserable here in summer — 95/95 is not unusual. Pop-up thunderstorms fed by Florida’s unending moisture and enormous heat are a fact of life. Absent a drought, you’d be lucky to get more than one three-hour game in a day, much less the three you talk about.
It ain’t gonna work any more than Arizona will.
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For sure come hell or high water, WI will be open for the DNC, aina?
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The Yahoo article about Disney’s Wide World of Sports complex hosting the NBA is brilliant. MLB and the NFL could follow suit. I’m surprised this idea hasn’t gained more momentum, it makes perfect sense.
MLB games in the day wouldn’t be great with the heat/humidity, but you can play games early 11am and at night on their 5 MLB fields. The Trop is an easy drive, you could play three games there each day as well.
No way players agree to be in Florida for the entire season
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No way players agree to be in Florida for the entire season
Feasible for NBA. Don't think it is for MLB.
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No way players agree to be in Florida for the entire season
Money has a long way of talking. Added benefit is no jock tax in Florida.
Yes, I get the weather isn’t ideal. Play early, play night games, utilize The Trop as well.
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Money has a long way of talking. Added benefit is no jock tax in Florida.
Yes, I get the weather isn’t ideal. Play early, play night games, utilize The Trop as well.
Brother Dish, playing baseball here in mid-summer is akin to the entire NFL playing its slate of games in February at Lambeau Field.
That’s not ideal weather either!
Play early? If the purpose is television, what does playing early get you? The geezer audience? You might get one game in the afternoon (with low audience because we’re all working) and one featured night game. That’s assuming the weather does not intervene.
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Brother Dish, playing baseball here in mid-summer is akin to the entire NFL playing its slate of games in February at Lambeau Field.
That’s not ideal weather either!
Play early? If the purpose is television, what does playing early get you? The geezer audience? You might get one game in the afternoon (with low audience because we’re all working) and one featured night game. That’s assuming the weather does not intervene.
Wait. You mean to tell me the sad proclaimed “best fans in the word” aren’t willing to wake up any hour of the day to watch their beloved red birds?
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I enjoy streaming a noon getaway game on the third monitor here and there, but to make a whole season of it would be quite a bit, even for those that have owned season tickets in the past and gone to or watched almost all games.
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I think you guy$ are mi$$ing the point.
No game$ = no media right$ revenue.
1>0
I totally get it will be hot/humid. Play early/play late, and game$ all day at the Trop.
Player$ can live with their familie$ $eque$tered at Di$ney hotel$ (Yahoo article capture$ thi$ $ide well). It’$ one of the few place$ where the bio dome option work$.
They are going to find a way to play MLB. Take it to the bank.
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Wait. You mean to tell me the sad proclaimed “best fans in the word” aren’t willing to wake up any hour of the day to watch their beloved red birds?
They may if the team is good enough to warrant their attention.
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Wait. You mean to tell me the sad proclaimed “best fans in the word” aren’t willing to wake up any hour of the day to watch their beloved red birds?
For heaven's sake, we have to work. Besides, under the Florida/Arizona plan, there's no games against the Cubs, Reds and Brewers. We'd end up playing the Nationals, Astros and Mets instead. Hell, if they let people in, I might stay down here this summer!
Brother Dish, the media revenue in this kind of nonsense would be so low that one wonders whether it's worth it to play the game. Media revenue is predicated the audience a broadcast can deliver. Broadcast a four inning affair that gets rained out because of one of Florida's everyday summer microbursts and the audience will be, well, crap.
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For heaven's sake, we have to work. Besides, under the Florida/Arizona plan, there's no games against the Cubs, Reds and Brewers. We'd end up playing the Nationals, Astros and Mets instead. Hell, if they let people in, I might stay down here this summer!
Brother Dish, the media revenue in this kind of nonsense would be so low that one wonders whether it's worth it to play the game. Media revenue is predicated the audience a broadcast can deliver. Broadcast a four inning affair that gets rained out because of one of Florida's everyday summer microbursts and the audience will be, well, crap.
Then what's your plan? Keep in mind that baseball in home stadiums with fans is NOT happening. How do you plan on playing the season with that limitation?
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The KBO is getting set to start their season at the beginning of May. I'm ready to watch some killer bat flips.
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The KBO is getting set to start their season at the beginning of May. I'm ready to watch some killer bat flips.
Asia may be all we get. I’d put chance of MLB at less than 50% this year.
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Asia may be all we get. I’d put chance of MLB at less than 50% this year.
Sell Eric Thames back to KBO plz
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Then what's your plan? Keep in mind that baseball in home stadiums with fans is NOT happening. How do you plan on playing the season with that limitation?
OK Fluff, since you asked:
1) Admit that we're day to day and may not know for awhile whether any baseball can be played this year.
2) Plan on starting after the All-Star break at the earliest.
3) If it doesn't go by August 1, can it for this year and lean on your business interruption insurance.
4) Admit that the Florida/Arizona plan is crap and you're probably going to lose a backside full money if you try it.
5) Fans are everything. We pay the bills.
Ultimately, Brother Fluff, we can't bunker down and hide from this indefinitely. America doesn't work that way and most humans are not wired that way. There's so many conflicting statistics on how deep the infestation and how bad it may be that it's getting to the point I don't know who to believe. But we can't shelter in place forever. We have to do things that ultimately bring us together and allow society to function normally.
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This could be crazy fun.
MLB talking about starting in late June with league realigned into three divisions and an expanded playoffs. No fans in the stands to start.
The divisions would be:
EAST
New York Yankees and Mets, Boston Red Sox, Washington Nationals, Baltimore Orioles, Philadelphia Phillies, Pittsburgh Pirates, Toronto Blue Jays, Tampa Bay Rays, Miami Marlins
WEST
Los Angeles Dodgers and Angels, San Francisco Giants, Oakland Athletics, San Diego Padres, Arizona Diamondbacks, Colorado Rockies, Texas Rangers, Houston Astros, Seattle Mariners
CENTRAL
Chicago Cubs and Chicago White Sox, Milwaukee Brewers, St. Louis Cardinals, Kansas City Royals, Cincinnati Reds, Cleveland Indians, Minnesota Twins, Atlanta Braves, Detroit Tigers
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2020/04/28/mlb-optimistic-about-starting-season-late-june/3039275001/
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This could be crazy fun.
MLB talking about starting in late June with league realigned into three divisions and an expanded playoffs. No fans in the stands to start.
The divisions would be:
EAST
New York Yankees and Mets, Boston Red Sox, Washington Nationals, Baltimore Orioles, Philadelphia Phillies, Pittsburgh Pirates, Toronto Blue Jays, Tampa Bay Rays, Miami Marlins
WEST
Los Angeles Dodgers and Angels, San Francisco Giants, Oakland Athletics, San Diego Padres, Arizona Diamondbacks, Colorado Rockies, Texas Rangers, Houston Astros, Seattle Mariners
CENTRAL
Chicago Cubs and Chicago White Sox, Milwaukee Brewers, St. Louis Cardinals, Kansas City Royals, Cincinnati Reds, Cleveland Indians, Minnesota Twins, Atlanta Braves, Detroit Tigers
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2020/04/28/mlb-optimistic-about-starting-season-late-june/3039275001/
That would be fun. Kind of odd they switched the Pirates and Braves. The West is the AL West and NL West combined. The Central and East are those two divisions combined but with only the Pirates and Braves switched.
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Would love the opportunity to drive to KC from Omaha to see the brewers if they opened to fans and the schedule worked out.
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Would love the opportunity to drive to KC from Omaha to see the brewers if they opened to fans and the schedule worked out.
This was basically my first thought too, ha. All these cool AL parks and cities that we don't normally get a chance to see almost makes the no fans thing worse.
On that note, why do the funky divisions at all? What does it change in a covid-environment vs just playing a short season with the schedule as-is, with a couple tweaks to be intra-division heavy? Teams are still going to be flying almost everywhere, I would imagine. All the same dates in the fan-less stadiums. Are the travel costs really that much lower just bunching into three geographic divisions like this? If not, I don't see the point.
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This was basically my first thought too, ha. All these cool AL parks and cities that we don't normally get a chance to see almost makes the no fans thing worse.
On that note, why do the funky divisions at all? What does it change in a covid-environment vs just playing a short season with the schedule as-is, with a couple tweaks to be intra-division heavy? Teams are still going to be flying almost everywhere, I would imagine. All the same dates in the fan-less stadiums. Are the travel costs really that much lower just bunching into three geographic divisions like this? If not, I don't see the point.
A couple of items. First I think they want to geographically limit travel so that they can play more games without the need for as many off days. I heard on ESPN this morning that they may allow for extra pitchers and 7 inning double headers to get the games in.
Also why move Pittsburgh out of its normal NL Central and substitute Atlanta? And why not just keep the divisions but have the games be weighted more toward your usual division opponents? Say 2/3 against your division and 1/3 intra league?
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I think a lot of this is Rob "piece of metal" Manfred throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks. I still doubt MLB has a season this year.
In previous football threads, I, along with many others, have eviscerated Roger Goodell for some of his tactics. But no one can ever say that Roger doesn't love the NFL. I don't know that Manfred loves Major League baseball. Whether it was the sham and lies of the cheating scandal or his total disrespect of the Championship trophy, Manfred has repeatedly shown disdain for the league.
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That would be fun. Kind of odd they switched the Pirates and Braves. The West is the AL West and NL West combined. The Central and East are those two divisions combined but with only the Pirates and Braves switched.
It seems weird, but Atlanta is actually quite a bit further west than Pittsburgh (and Cleveland, Cincinnati and Detroit, for that matter).
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I think a lot of this is Rob "piece of metal" Manfred throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks. I still doubt MLB has a season this year.
In previous football threads, I, along with many others, have eviscerated Roger Goodell for some of his tactics. But no one can ever say that Roger doesn't love the NFL. I don't know that Manfred loves Major League baseball. Whether it was the sham and lies of the cheating scandal or his total disrespect of the Championship trophy, Manfred has repeatedly shown disdain for the league.
I doubt the NFL will have a season this fall as well especially with the expectation of a second wave of outbreaks. Even if they play in empty stadiums how do the players not potentially not spread the virus among themselves. Are they going to quarantine the players for 5 months? Test them weekly? If one player test positive is his team then prevented from playing? The whole thing just seems so untenable until there is a vaccine or there is no second wave and the virus just seems to run its course.
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Oh good we’re backing to make broad assessments about stuff months in the future. We’re a full 4 months from the NFL season starting. 5 if you push it back a month and condense it. We’re talking about soccer starting around the world. Other countries are playing baseball and basketball in the next month. Assuming one of the biggest money makers in all of entertainment will not play, when they have over a trimester of time to figure out a way, is just Chicken Little paranoia. MLB is already behind the 8 ball and behind schedule, that’s a different story.
And yes, test them weekly. Why not?
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Our governor in Florida was talking about baseball with fans in late June.
With fans.
Makes sense to me given what's transgressed in Florida.
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Oh good we’re backing to make broad assessments about stuff months in the future. We’re a full 4 months from the NFL season starting. 5 if you push it back a month and condense it. We’re talking about soccer starting around the world. Other countries are playing baseball and basketball in the next month. Assuming one of the biggest money makers in all of entertainment will not play, when they have over a trimester of time to figure out a way, is just Chicken Little paranoia. MLB is already behind the 8 ball and behind schedule, that’s a different story.
And yes, test them weekly. Why not?
While I doubt there will be an MLB season, my uneducated guess on the NFL is probably 60 / 40 that there will be some kind of a season.
As far as broad assessments in the future? As a businessman don’t you do that all of the time. Obviously much more of an educated opinion.
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Our governor in Florida was talking about baseball with fans in late June.
With fans.
Makes sense to me given what's transgressed in Florida.
It doesn't make sense at all, particularly since one of those teams is in the hard hit Dade County, and MLB would likely not allow it anyway.
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While I doubt there will be an MLB season, my uneducated guess on the NFL is probably 60 / 40 that there will be some kind of a season.
As far as broad assessments in the future? As a businessman don’t you do that all of the time. Obviously much more of an educated opinion.
Not involving large tactical charges or deviations from plan. Especially in the face of uncommon or entirely abnormal circumstances.
For example, we didn’t present at a trade show in HK in September, due to the protests and general tension in the region. First time in close to 15 years we didn’t have a booth presence, much less attend as visitors. There is a competing show, attended by most of the same people, that also takes place in late Feb, similar history of of attendance. By early November things were still dicey, China wasn’t ordering, my controller and another member of management started clamoring for clawing back the deposit on our booth, cancelling hotel reservations and airline tickets for those that had them. I was entirely opposed as anything could happen in the next 1-2 months, much less 3+.
Same thing here. It’s silly to start ruling things out when there are myriad contingency plans that could occur, beyond a normal season.
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Not involving large tactical charges or deviations from plan. Especially in the face of uncommon or entirely abnormal circumstances.
For example, we didn’t present at a trade show in HK in September, due to the protests and general tension in the region. First time in close to 15 years we didn’t have a booth presence, much less attend as visitors. There is a competing show, attended by most of the same people, that also takes place in late Feb, similar history of of attendance. By early November things were still dicey, China wasn’t ordering, my controller and another member of management started clamoring for clawing back the deposit on our booth, cancelling hotel reservations and airline tickets for those that had them. I was entirely opposed as anything could happen in the next 1-2 months, much less 3+.
Same thing here. It’s silly to start ruling things out when there are myriad contingency plans that could occur, beyond a normal season.
He doesn't work for the NFL. He's just making a prediction.
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The problem with saying the NFL is 4 months is that the window for making decisions is way smaller than that. A month of training camp and you're down to 3. Not a lot of time to make those calls and possibly change course with all the moving parts.
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He doesn't work for the NFL. He's just making a prediction.
I’m aware. And he’s certainly not alone in that prediction or mindset. I was just pushing back at people’s predictions and assumptions for things 4-6+ months from now using the current status quo. It’s become a pet peeve of mine, shrug
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Not involving large tactical charges or deviations from plan. Especially in the face of uncommon or entirely abnormal circumstances.
For example, we didn’t present at a trade show in HK in September, due to the protests and general tension in the region. First time in close to 15 years we didn’t have a booth presence, much less attend as visitors. There is a competing show, attended by most of the same people, that also takes place in late Feb, similar history of of attendance. By early November things were still dicey, China wasn’t ordering, my controller and another member of management started clamoring for clawing back the deposit on our booth, cancelling hotel reservations and airline tickets for those that had them. I was entirely opposed as anything could happen in the next 1-2 months, much less 3+.
Same thing here. It’s silly to start ruling things out when there are myriad contingency plans that could occur, beyond a normal season.
I was just razzing you with the last paragraph- I should have used teal.
I didn’t mean to offend you or question your opinion. There are times we disagree, but I try to be as respectful as you have always been with me.
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Rolling the 2020 induction into the 2021 ceremony.
Hall of Fame cancels induction ceremony
ASSOCIATED PRESS
Mike Stobe / TNS
Derek Jeter and the rest of this year’s Baseball Hall of Fame class will have to wait for their big moment at Cooperstown.
Derek Jeter, Larry Walker and the rest of this year’s Baseball Hall of Fame class will have to wait another year for their big moment at Cooperstown.
The Hall of Fame announced Wednesday that it has canceled the July 26 induction ceremony because of the coronavirus pandemic.
Instead, the class will be included at next year’s induction festivities — along with any additional new choices — on July 25, 2021.
A record crowd of over 70,000 had been expected this summer in an outdoor field at the small town in upstate New York to honor Jeter, the former New York Yankees captain who came within one vote of unanimous election by the Baseball Writers’ Association of America in January.
Jeter and Walker were to be inducted with catcher Ted Simmons and the late Marvin Miller, the pioneering players’ union head who negotiated free agency and transformed the sport.
“Being inducted into the Hall of Fame will be an incredible honor, but the health and safety of everyone involved are paramount,” Jeter said in a statement released by the Hall.
“I respect and support the decision to postpone this year’s enshrinement and am looking forward to joining current Hall of Famers, fans, staff and my family and friends in Cooperstown in 2021,“ he said.
This will be the first year without an induction ceremony since 1960.
“It was a very difficult decision, but with so many unknowns facing the world, the board felt strongly that this was the right decision,” said Hall member Joe Morgan, vice chairman of the shrine’s board.
Record attendance for an induction ceremony was set in 2007, exceeding 70,000 when Cal Ripken Jr. and the late Tony Gwynn were enshrined. Cooperstown is within easy driving distance of the New York metro area, and loads of Yankees fans had already made their plans to see Jeter on the Hall stage.
The Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum closed at the end of the day on March 15 due to the virus outbreak.
Jeter, now the CEO of the Miami Marlins, and Walker were elected by member of the BBWAA. Simmons and Miller were chosen in December by the Hall’s Modern Era Committee.
“I fully understand and agree with the board’s decision,” Walker said in a statement from the Hall. “It is most important to do the right thing for everybody involved, and that means not putting any participants in jeopardy.“ Simmons echoed that view.
“I commend the board for making this decision under these difficult circumstances, particularly in New York, a state severely hit by the pandemic. This was the wisest and smartest thing to do, given the existing environment and the danger that this pandemic presents,“ he said.
Also to be honored during next year’s Hall induction weekend: 2020 Ford C. Frick Award winner Hawk Harrelson, 2020 J.G. Taylor Spink Award winner Nick Cafardo and the winner of the 2020 Buck O’Neil Lifetime Achievement Award, David Montgomery.
Jeter, a key to five World Series titles, was on 396 of 397 ballots in voting announced Jan. 21. The only player with a higher percentage was former Yankees teammate Mariano Rivera, who became the first unanimous pick in 2019. Walker, making his 10th ballot appearance, got 304 votes — six over the threshold.
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Korean baseball opening night on ESPN.
Pick your team, rolling with the NC Dinos this season.
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I’m aware. And he’s certainly not alone in that prediction or mindset. I was just pushing back at people’s predictions and assumptions for things 4-6+ months from now using the current status quo. It’s become a pet peeve of mine, shrug
Brother Wags:
This is a pet peeve of mine as well.
The real question that must now be asked is, "What's the objective standard for reopening society?"
Our nation must balance the medical risk with the economic, social and even political risk of continuing to deprive people of their liberties. If last weekend taught us anything, it is that people already are at the end of their ropes sheltering in place and the longer this goes, the more likely it becomes that folks openly defy their government.
Sunday, for example, Mayor Lightfoot in Chicago was chiding people for house parties. The Chicago Tribune ran a story about touring famous cemeteries, even as the Mayor closed the parks. Down here, in Brevard County (home of the space center and Jeannie from "I Dream of Jeannie"), the beaches were technically closed. But if you drove along Florida A1A, everyplace where there was a public beach access, there were dozens of cars parked on the side of the highway and people who ignored the barriers and headed to the beach.
If we wait to open the economy until we have a workable vaccine, it will be 12 to 18 months at least. Likewise, if we wait until the rise in cases falls to 0, see the 12 to 18 month prediction. What we don't know is the "ins and outs," or how many people at a point in time actually have the virus. That number is far more elusive. We need to decide on a reasonable, risk-balanced standard and then execute on it.
To assume we're not going to have baseball, football, or MU basketball for that matter next fall, has far greater implications on our society than simply no sports. It has a potential to bankrupt our economy and put tens of millions of more Americans out of work.
Here's to our leaders in Florida! They balanced medical risk with social, political and economic risk and began opening our state this week.
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Brother Wags:
This is a pet peeve of mine as well.
The real question that must now be asked is, "What's the objective standard for reopening society?"
Our nation must balance the medical risk with the economic, social and even political risk of continuing to deprive people of their liberties. If last weekend taught us anything, it is that people already are at the end of their ropes sheltering in place and the longer this goes, the more likely it becomes that folks openly defy their government.
Sunday, for example, Mayor Lightfoot in Chicago was chiding people for house parties. The Chicago Tribune ran a story about touring famous cemeteries, even as the Mayor closed the parks. Down here, in Brevard County (home of the space center and Jeannie from "I Dream of Jeannie"), the beaches were technically closed. But if you drove along Florida A1A, everyplace where there was a public beach access, there were dozens of cars parked on the side of the highway and people who ignored the barriers and headed to the beach.
If we wait to open the economy until we have a workable vaccine, it will be 12 to 18 months at least. Likewise, if we wait until the rise in cases falls to 0, see the 12 to 18 month prediction. What we don't know is the "ins and outs," or how many people at a point in time actually have the virus. That number is far more elusive. We need to decide on a reasonable, risk-balanced standard and then execute on it.
To assume we're not going to have baseball, football, or MU basketball for that matter next fall, has far greater implications on our society than simply no sports. It has a potential to bankrupt our economy and put tens of millions of more Americans out of work.
Here's to our leaders in Florida! They balanced medical risk with social, political and economic risk and began opening our state this week.
No one is saying the bolded. Those are strawman arguments right there.
Pretty much everyone agrees with you up until the final two paragraphs. The economy is going to have to "open up," but that is nowhere near the magic bullet some people think its going to be.
But no sports isn't going to put "tens of millions of more Americans out of work." That is a complete exaggeration. Nowhere close to reality. Even the broadest of economic impact studies, which I think are often a load of bullsh*t anyway, put the figure at about half a million. And sports will occur, just without crowds or reduced crowds.
And your governor gets no credit until he releases all of the data that he is preventing counties from releasing.
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No one is saying the bolded. Those are strawman arguments right there.
Pretty much everyone agrees with you up until the final two paragraphs. The economy is going to have to "open up," but that is nowhere near the magic bullet some people think its going to be.
But no sports isn't going to put "tens of millions of more Americans out of work." That is a complete exaggeration. Nowhere close to reality. Even the broadest of economic impact studies, which I think are often a load of bullsh*t anyway, put the figure at about half a million. And sports will occur, just without crowds or reduced crowds.
And your governor gets no credit until he releases all of the data that he is preventing counties from releasing.
Brother Fluff;
You and I would be good with a pitcher of beer, two glasses and a chance to debate the issues of the day. It would be fun!
Let me clarify for you, good brother. Baseball crowds are symptomatic of bigger issues in society. No crowds means the fear level in our country will be out of control or, alternatively, that abuse of emergency powers will be an everyday occurrence. If we can't gather in any meaningful concentrations for anything -- be it sports, work, Mass, traffic jams on the Kennedy, concerts in the park or even First Fridays in Libertyville -- we're going to have much larger problems than sports.
And if the NFL doesn't play with audiences, the situation with large gatherings generally will be so severe I doubt we can avoid a Depression. The NFL is a symptom, not the cause.
We have a Constitution. No where in the Constitution does it say the federal government can abridge freedom of movement, freedom of assembly and even freedom of speech, because it's inconvenient. We accept a short-term emergency basically voluntarily because we believe in the value of extraordinary precautions.
Like it or not, there's a segment of society (and we see quite a bit of it here in Florida) that wants the country forcibly locked down until we have a vaccine or until the virus is all but gone. They're called senior citizens and many are scared and vulnerable right now. Here in Florida, our economy is restarting and there's a big segment of the senior citizen population that's madder than Gehenna.
We need clarity under which the existing problems will end and we need to be fully cognizant of what the risk will be of continued sheltering in place.
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Brother Fluff;
You and I would be good with a pitcher of beer, two glasses and a chance to debate the issues of the day. It would be fun!
Let me clarify for you, good brother. Baseball crowds are symptomatic of bigger issues in society. No crowds means the fear level in our country will be out of control or, alternatively, that abuse of emergency powers will be an everyday occurrence. If we can't gather in any meaningful concentrations for anything -- be it sports, work, Mass, traffic jams on the Kennedy, concerts in the park or even First Fridays in Libertyville -- we're going to have much larger problems than sports.
And if the NFL doesn't play with audiences, the situation with large gatherings generally will be so severe I doubt we can avoid a Depression. The NFL is a symptom, not the cause.
We have a Constitution. No where in the Constitution does it say the federal government can abridge freedom of movement, freedom of assembly and even freedom of speech, because it's inconvenient. We accept a short-term emergency basically voluntarily because we believe in the value of extraordinary precautions.
Like it or not, there's a segment of society (and we see quite a bit of it here in Florida) that wants the country forcibly locked down until we have a vaccine or until the virus is all but gone. They're called senior citizens and many are scared and vulnerable right now. Here in Florida, our economy is restarting and there's a big segment of the senior citizen population that's madder than Gehenna.
We need clarity under which the existing problems will end and we need to be fully cognizant of what the risk will be of continued sheltering in place.
I do t know what to say other than you’re naive. There will not be crowds in the stands for baseball this year. There might not be baseball at all. What if a player tests positive? What if a significant number of players say “nah” and skip 2020 altogether?
Baseball isn’t responsible for entertaining us at their detriment.
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Officially rooting for the NC Dinos.
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Ive been partial to the SK Wyverns cause for an ESL country, Wyverns is an absolutely incredible mascot
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I do t know what to say other than you’re naive. There will not be crowds in the stands for baseball this year. There might not be baseball at all. What if a player tests positive? What if a significant number of players say “nah” and skip 2020 altogether?
Baseball isn’t responsible for entertaining us at their detriment.
Brother Fluff:
Already, people are pushing back on the notion that they can't gather and they can't do the things they normally do as the weather turns pleasant. Whether it's baseball, dining out, going to Mass or whatever, folks are closing in on their limits.
If fear drives us to the point that there's no baseball, what that says about our society is openly scary. That's my point. Already, unemployment in Illinois is 14.7 percent, the highest it's been since the Depression. The largest private sector employer in the state is restaurants (which should tell you something about Illinois, but that's another story) and now the governor is saying the earliest they can open is June 26th.
I'd like baseball to come back and I'd like to be at a Brewers game this summer! I'd admit there's a possibility that regulatory fiat may prevent that. But I also would like to note that selective isolation of our most vulnerable populations, responsible actions among healthy people etc., probably would abate much of the problem. At some point, we have to stop behaving like this is the Andromeda Strain.
Ultimately, I'm not willing to concede my civil liberties will be limited for the next 18 months.
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Dude not going to a baseball game has nothing to do with your civil liberties.
Yes the economy has to open up. And it will. But large crowds at sporting events will be the last thing that does. Perhaps properly spaced, smaller crowds are a possibility but full stands for baseball this year? Not. A. Chance.
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Ive been partial to the SK Wyverns cause for an ESL country, Wyverns is an absolutely incredible mascot
That it is. And I almost went with them too, ultimately, my daughter preferred Dinos. So there I am.
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Was just told. “ Looks like training camp begins mid June season July early. Camp might be in Milwaukee.. ”
Here’s to hoping that happens
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Was just told. “ Looks like training camp begins mid June season July early. Camp might be in Milwaukee.. ”
Here’s to hoping that happens
So your source can read ESPN.com, SI.com, or any other publication that covers sports?
I'm guessing your source also told you that teams will play an 82 game season, there will be 14 Playoff teams for an extra Wild Card round, universal DH, 30 man rosters with a 20 man taxi squad, divisions will remain the same but teams will only play other teams from their division and the teams in the same geographical division from the other league, revenue sharing for the players for the first time ever, and games played in empty home ballparks, unless teams can't make that happen and then at their own spring training sites?
The owners have already agreed to this proposal. The Players Association is expected to reject it. But my guess is, with further negotiations regarding what the revenue sharing part of it will mean for player contracts going forward, we will get most of what is being proposed in terms of rules and schedule for this season.
Whether they can actually keep teams from having to quarantine will be seen when Summer Training gets under way.
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So your source can read ESPN.com, SI.com, or any other publication that covers sports?
I'm guessing your source also told you that teams will play an 82 game season, there will be 14 Playoff teams for an extra Wild Card round, universal DH, 30 man rosters with a 20 man taxi squad, divisions will remain the same but teams will only play other teams from their division and the teams in the same geographical division from the other league, revenue sharing for the players for the first time ever, and games played in empty home ballparks, unless teams can't make that happen and then at their own spring training sites?
The owners have already agreed to this proposal. The Players Association is expected to reject it. But my guess is, with further negotiations regarding what the revenue sharing part of it will mean for player contracts going forward, we will get most of what is being proposed in terms of rules and schedule for this season.
Whether they can actually keep teams from having to quarantine will be seen when Summer Training gets under way.
BD, not going to get into a pissing match with you. When I want to know when Davante Gardner is bringing his warmups to a game, and still won’t play for numerous games, I’ll reach out. Thanks
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I think pitchers hitting is going to be a casualty of Covid. For you fans of pitchers hitting, my deepest heartfelt apologies that you will no longer get to watch guys that don't practice hitting hit.
The Cubs are probably pretty happy about it, so Schwarber won't have to play the OF anymore. I don't know if there could be another NL team as well positioned for the DH. The Reds could be well positioned there too.
Yasiel Puig is probably pretty happy about it as well.
Also I think this delay is an advantage for the Nationals, their pitchers threw a ton of innings last season, and now will be fresher through this season, provided it still happens. Often, teams that win the WS fall off because their pitchers can't hold up to the extra inning load. The Nats shouldn't have to worry about Strasburg, Scherzer and Corbin as much.
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I think pitchers hitting is going to be a casualty of Covid. For you fans of pitchers hitting, my deepest heartfelt apologies that you will no longer get to watch guys that don't practice hitting hit.
The Cubs are probably pretty happy about it, so Schwarber won't have to play the OF anymore. I don't know if there could be another NL team as well positioned for the DH. The Reds could be well positioned there too.
Yasiel Puig is probably pretty happy about it as well.
Also I think this delay is an advantage for the Nationals, their pitchers threw a ton of innings last season, and now will be fresher through this season, provided it still happens. Often, teams that win the WS fall off because their pitchers can't hold up to the extra inning load. The Nats shouldn't have to worry about Strasburg, Scherzer and Corbin as much.
Jimmy Nelson’s injury ended any resistance I had to the DH.
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Apparently the CBA with the players has no provision to pay less than full salary if the season goes on. No matter the length. Of course the owners want that renegotiated.
And apparently the NFL has to pay their players regardless if there is a season or not.
Players may finally have some leverage.
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Apparently the CBA with the players has no provision to pay less than full salary if the season goes on. No matter the length. Of course the owners want that renegotiated.
And apparently the NFL has to pay their players regardless if there is a season or not.
Players may finally have some leverage.
Players agreed to pro-rate already, but as the MLB has realized that revenues will go down beyond the pro-rated number of games, MLB wants to renegotiate again. Players have leverage right now, but you can guarantee the owners will (just conveniently and in complete lockstep) exact revenge in subsequent years. Players should hold fast - let's not forget that player salaries have been nose-diving over the past 3 years already. Not a dime back,eh?
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Players may finally have some leverage.
Someone should have told Donald Fehr that he never had any leverage. He did exceptionally well without it I guess.
Players agreed to pro-rate already, but as the MLB has realized that revenues will go down beyond the pro-rated number of games, MLB wants to renegotiate again. Players have leverage right now, but you can guarantee the owners will (just conveniently and in complete lockstep) exact revenge in subsequent years. Players should hold fast - let's not forget that player salaries have been nose-diving over the past 3 years already. Not a dime back,eh?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/236213/mean-salaray-of-players-in-majpr-league-baseball/
Down, but not quite nosediving. And that is the average. It is the lower end veterans that have been losing out. The high end, well...
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020-mlb-free-agent-tracker/sort_column-amount__sort_direction-0
There are about 50 guys making 20 million per season or more.
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/
Plenty of guys made plenty of money. This current version of the CBA hasn't been great for players, but in their negotiations, they focused on things other than salary considerations. The owners, well, pretty much always focus on salary. Things like the QO and arbitration will be huge in the next CBA I think.
I don't get why the MLBPA so readily agreed to the modifications to the draft this year (which personally I couldn't hate more). Sure, there had to be some, but 5 rounds with a max of 20K for guys not drafted? That's crazy cost control the owners got through with no push back at all.
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Someone should have told Donald Fehr that he never had any leverage. He did exceptionally well without it I guess.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/236213/mean-salaray-of-players-in-majpr-league-baseball/
Down, but not quite nosediving. And that is the average. It is the lower end veterans that have been losing out. The high end, well...
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020-mlb-free-agent-tracker/sort_column-amount__sort_direction-0
There are about 50 guys making 20 million per season or more.
https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/
Plenty of guys made plenty of money. This current version of the CBA hasn't been great for players, but in their negotiations, they focused on things other than salary considerations. The owners, well, pretty much always focus on salary. Things like the QO and arbitration will be huge in the next CBA I think.
I don't get why the MLBPA so readily agreed to the modifications to the draft this year (which personally I couldn't hate more). Sure, there had to be some, but 5 rounds with a max of 20K for guys not drafted? That's crazy cost control the owners got through with no push back at all.
Fehr’s long gone and the union has suffered for it. Players unions have by and large lost leverage for years.
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Fehr’s long gone and the union has suffered for it. Players unions have by and large lost leverage for years.
Absolutely. But they have prioritized different things. Tony Clark was seemingly a better hitter than union boss.
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Absolutely. But they have prioritized different things. Tony Clark was seemingly a better hitter than union boss.
What made Clark qualified for this? It seems they went with lawyers prior to him.
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Is it the owners and the CBA or advanced stats telling GM not to give huge money/long deals to a dude that's gonna be washed up in a few years?
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Absolutely. But they have prioritized different things. Tony Clark was seemingly a better hitter than union boss.
Agreed on all counts.
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Is it the owners and the CBA or advanced stats telling GM not to give huge money/long deals to a dude that's gonna be washed up in a few years?
It is the advanced stats squeezing out the mediocre veterans, and the CBA squeezing the good veterans and younger players.
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The Cubs are probably pretty happy about it, so Schwarber won't have to play the OF anymore. I don't know if there could be another NL team as well positioned for the DH. The Reds could be well positioned there too.
According to this article, the Diamondbacks, Braves, Reds, Dodgers, Brewers, Mets, Phillies, and Nationals are all "better positioned" for a DH than the Cubs.
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/how-will-nl-teams-use-universal-dh-grading-each-teams-situation-as-mlb-owners-propose-return-to-play-plans/ (https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/how-will-nl-teams-use-universal-dh-grading-each-teams-situation-as-mlb-owners-propose-return-to-play-plans/)
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According to this article, the Diamondbacks, Braves, Reds, Dodgers, Brewers, Mets, Phillies, and Nationals are all "better positioned" for a DH than the Cubs.
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/how-will-nl-teams-use-universal-dh-grading-each-teams-situation-as-mlb-owners-propose-return-to-play-plans/ (https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/how-will-nl-teams-use-universal-dh-grading-each-teams-situation-as-mlb-owners-propose-return-to-play-plans/)
Those are certainly fair and true. Though, many of those are more just that the teams are better and have more depth, like the Braves. The Braves are better suited for it, but would you rather have Schwarber or Adam Duvall as your DH?
I worded it wrong. More what I meant was, there can't be many NL teams that will get better production out of their DH.
The Dodgers are a huge miss on my part. They have so much talent and depth, they will likely have better DH production than some AL teams. Pederson could basically full time DH. They could play Lux at 2B or 3B and DH Muncy or Turner. They are stacked.
I like the Mets too, Dominic Smith can hit, and now he has a spot( though still, him producing more than Schwarber at least this year, is a stretch). Cespedes? Certainly, but he needs to prove he can play more than 5 games.
As for the others... I'm more skeptical
Braun or Schwarber at DH?
Jake Lamb or Schwarber?
Starlin Castro/ Asdrubal Cabrera or Schwarber?
Jay Bruce or Schwarber?
Are the Nats, Phillies, etc. more prepared for this than the Cubs? Yeah, probably. But will they get more out of their DHs than the Cubs? I doubt it. They also get the plus of getting an absolute butcher out of LF, though many of the teams will see that same benefit.
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Those are certainly fair and true. Though, many of those are more just that the teams are better and have more depth, like the Braves. The Braves are better suited for it, but would you rather have Schwarber or Adam Duvall as your DH?
I worded it wrong. More what I meant was, there can't be many NL teams that will get better production out of their DH.
The Dodgers are a huge miss on my part. They have so much talent and depth, they will likely have better DH production than some AL teams. Pederson could basically full time DH. They could play Lux at 2B or 3B and DH Muncy or Turner. They are stacked.
I like the Mets too, Dominic Smith can hit, and now he has a spot( though still, him producing more than Schwarber at least this year, is a stretch). Cespedes? Certainly, but he needs to prove he can play more than 5 games.
As for the others... I'm more skeptical
Braun or Schwarber at DH?
Jake Lamb or Schwarber?
Starlin Castro/ Asdrubal Cabrera or Schwarber?
Jay Bruce or Schwarber?
Are the Nats, Phillies, etc. more prepared for this than the Cubs? Yeah, probably. But will they get more out of their DHs than the Cubs? I doubt it. They also get the plus of getting an absolute butcher out of LF, though many of the teams will see that same benefit.
I think you’re overrating Schwarber. He’s probably going to be a better DH than a decent amount of NL DHs, but I doubt it’ll be by much.
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I think you’re overrating Schwarber. He’s probably going to be a better DH than a decent amount of NL DHs, but I doubt it’ll be by much.
Maybe I am, though, that isn't really my natural inclination. Those other guys are pretty rough.
Lamb's last 2 seasons are .208/.315/.350.
Duvall .212/.284/.413
Jay Bruce .219/.287/.445
Starlin Castro .274/.314/.418
Cabrera .261/.328/.450
Braun .271/.329/.488
Braun is the only one that put up good numbers across the board. Castro and Cabrera are fine, but not too much pop there.
Schwarber .245/.347/.503
By the way, .267/327/.473 with 34 SBs... That is Yasiel Puig, just waiting for a call...
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You're overrating Schwarber as a hitter and underrating him as a fielder. The butcher narrative comes from a few high profile mistakes, most that took place in the playoffs 5 years ago.
Defensive stats have their issues, but they show him to be more or less average in the outfield. Same goes for the eye test if you're watching him regularly.
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You're overrating Schwarber as a hitter and underrating him as a fielder. The butcher narrative comes from a few high profile mistakes, most that took place in the playoffs 5 years ago.
Defensive stats have their issues, but they show him to be more or less average in the outfield. Same goes for the eye test if you're watching him regularly.
Not sure where you'd get this. I mean, I just copied the numbers from bbref... so...
He is what he is as a hitter. He will K a lot and have a mediocre to bad average, but he will walk a decent amount and have an OBP around .340 or so. He will also hit homers and likely slug somewhere around .490.
I feel confident that I am neither over or underrating him as a hitter, as this is what his stats say that he is. He could easily have an outlier year one way or another, but most likely, he will be around those numbers.
Never thought I'd see the day where I was accused of overrating cubs multiple times in a day.
And he is a butcher in the field. I've seen him take horrible routes, get bad starts, and look like an oaf, and I don't watch them much. They weren't all from the playoffs a couple years (yeah it wasn't close to 5- more like 2.
5 years ago he was a catcher - mostly in the minors.) ago either. As you say, there are problems with defensive stats, but be that as it may, whether you use advanced stats, traditional stats or the eye test, he is below average.
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Overrated refers to how you're claiming he's going to be this great DH, obviously not your statistics you later posted.
In 2015, Schwarber was called up and played 69 games, less than 1/3 of them were at catcher. He played in all 9 postseason games, broke the Cubs postseason home run record, and made multiple awful plays in the field in the NLCS against the Mets.
Also, defensive stats put him around average as a fielder, as I said previously.
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Was just told. “ Looks like training camp begins mid June season July early. Camp might be in Milwaukee.. ”
Here’s to hoping that happens
Was just told by who?
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Overrated refers to how you're claiming he's going to be this great DH, obviously not your statistics you later posted.
In 2015, Schwarber was called up and played 69 games, less than 1/3 of them were at catcher. He played in all 9 postseason games, broke the Cubs postseason home run record, and made multiple awful plays in the field in the NLCS against the Mets.
Also, defensive stats put him around average as a fielder, as I said previously.
Sorry I didnt realize saying he will be better than Adam Duvall and Jake Lamb meant I thought he would be "great". I don't think he's great, never thought he was great, he's flawed as a hitter, but he gets on base and hits for power. That's a good start on a DH.
Every adavnced defensive number I looked at for him started with a minus sign.
And I must have had my years crossed. The errors he made in the 2017 playoffs were after he improved out there.
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Sorry I didnt realize saying he will be better than Adam Duvall and Jake Lamb meant I thought he would be "great". I don't think he's great, never thought he was great, he's flawed as a hitter, but he gets on base and hits for power. That's a good start on a DH.
Every adavnced defensive number I looked at for him started with a minus sign.
And I must have had my years crossed. The errors he made in the 2017 playoffs were after he improved out there.
You said you didn’t think there was another NL team that would benefit more from having the DH available. I took that as you thought Schwarber was some dominant hitter who now doesn’t need to play in the field, which is why I thought you were overrating Schwarber. I read it as if you were saying he was significantly better than most might be able to put in that spot in the NL, which I don’t think is the case. Better than some for sure but I don’t think he’s an elite hitter.
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Just meant they had a ready made DH. I regret bringing it up.
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Baseball players once again proving themselves to collectively be the least intelligent and most tone deaf of all the professional athletes, no?
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Baseball players once again proving themselves to collectively be the least intelligent and most tone deaf of all the professional athletes, no?
I do think that the MLBPA has the worst PR machine of any of the labor constituencies in the major sports. They are going to get destoryed by the owners in the media battle - its already begun. Owners are united and have been hitting the pavement hard to make the players look out of touch, even though I think Blake Snell is pretty much objectively correct, for example.
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I do think that the MLBPA has the worst PR machine of any of the labor constituencies in the major sports. They are going to get destoryed by the owners in the media battle - its already begun. Owners are united and have been hitting the pavement hard to make the players look out of touch, even though I think Blake Snell is pretty much objectively correct, for example.
He might be "correct," but fans don't want to hear it, and there isn't a soul who feels sorry for him.
This wasn't a union thing, per se. It was a tone-deaf player sounding like a dope.
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Snell is spot on. While the rest of the world is refusing to get on airplanes, stay in hotels, or come close to other human beings, he’s being asked to take half of what his pay is to put himself at risk? How does that make any sense? I get it, you’re playing half a season so you’re not going to be paid for the work you didn’t do. But why should these guys have to take risks other people don’t?
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He might be "correct," but fans don't want to hear it, and there isn't a soul who feels sorry for him.
This wasn't a union thing, per se. It was a tone-deaf player sounding like a dope.
Yeah, it sounds pretty stupid to say he's risking his life for nothing, when, really there are many others that are taking on much more risk for far less. If MLB comes back, you'd think it would be a fairly controlled environment, at least compared to working at a grocery store or hospital.
While he has every right to that money, it seems ridiculous to say it how he said it, when so many people are really suffering financial and economical hardships right now. There would have been better ways to get his point across.
And I totally get the players being suspicious of the owners. There are also some pretty unique circumstances right now, and you'd think the MLBPA would understand that. Especially because this is the owners first proposal in a negotiation. Trying to carry out the negotiation in public probably doesn't help anyone.
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I do think that the MLBPA has the worst PR machine of any of the labor constituencies in the major sports. They are going to get destoryed by the owners in the media battle - its already begun. Owners are united and have been hitting the pavement hard to make the players look out of touch, even though I think Blake Snell is pretty much objectively correct, for example.
I'm on the players' side regarding how they should get paid. Don't pay them for the games that aren't played, of course, but they should get every dime they're owed for the games that are played.
But public statements how "I gots to get paid" and "I'm putting my life at risk" are idiotic and drain away what public support you have as players.
Doctors, nurses, grocery store workers, meat plant workers, construction workers, etc., are putting their lives at risk. A 27-year-old athlete playing baseball in a highly controlled environment surrounded by top-level medical care is not putting his life at risk.
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I have a pipe dream that this pandemic actually engenders a little worker solidarity, and all those meat packers and grocery store workers are glad to see someone who has that bargaining power actually use it, and say what all those low wage workers wish they could say. But I'm sure I'm probably wrong and we'll all just continue pissing on each other's heads.
EDIT: lol pissing on each other's legs. leaving the original to show I'm an idiot and no one should listen to anything i say
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But why should these guys have to take risks other people don’t?
They don't have to do anything. MLB has said players that don't want to play won't be forced to play.
And millions of people are taking far greater risks every day. Playing baseball under the circumstances that have been laid out is going to be much less dangerous than going to the grocery store, much less working in one.
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They don't have to do anything. MLB has said players that don't want to play won't be forced to play.
And millions of people are taking far greater risks every day. Playing baseball under the circumstances that have been laid out is going to be much less dangerous than going to the grocery store, much less working in one.
That’s all he’s saying. If he’s playing, he’s getting paid what he signed to play for. If he’s not getting that, no need for him to put himself, and then his family, at risk.
If I had millions of dollars to my name and was responsible with that money, there’s no way I’d be interested in hopping on airplanes to stay in hotels and then come home to my family while being paid less than what I agreed to.
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If I had millions of dollars to my name and was responsible with that money, there’s no way I’d be interested in hopping on airplanes to stay in hotels and then come home to my family while being paid less than what I agreed to.
Plus, there's a huge dfference between taking prorated salary and taking a proportion whatever is there after a 50/50 split of revenue with the owners. That's what Snell is talking about. These guys aren't saying "I won't go out there unless I'm paid my full year's salary for playing half the year." They're saying they won't let the owners renegotiate the deal.
The collective bargaining agreement put the risk-reward on the owners. You owe the players what you owe them, and you keep the rest. If TV deals and the gate make crazy $, you keep that upside. You also take the risk of the downside. Now they want to split that downside 50/50 with the players.
AND if the MLBPA agrees, its guys like Snell that will get hurt the most. With no spring traning, there will be expanded rosters, which means even more pre-arb guys. You can't hardly cut the salaries of those pre-arb guys pro-rata after splitting revenue with the owners - they already don't make any money. So where is all of that loss going to come from? It will have to come from guys like Snell, who will be risking your typical pitching injuries in addition to the 'rona for what, half of the prorated version of their bargained for salary. He's right, screw that.
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That’s all he’s saying. If he’s playing, he’s getting paid what he signed to play for. If he’s not getting that, no need for him to put himself, and then his family, at risk.
If I had millions of dollars to my name and was responsible with that money, there’s no way I’d be interested in hopping on airplanes to stay in hotels and then come home to my family while being paid less than what I agreed to.
I don't think anyone here at least is saying the players should accept less than their contract states.
The point is Snell's remarks did a poor job of stating the players' case, plays into the stereotype that all they care about is the money, will alienate potential supporters and likely to harm the players' side in what will become - as these things invariably do - a PR battle.
You can be on the players' side while also recognizing the stupidity of Snell's comments.
For comparison's sake and how it ought to be handled, see Nolan Arenado.
https://theathletic.com/1815647/2020/05/14/rosenthal-nolan-arenado-on-talks-with-mlb-health-risks-and-wanting-to-play/
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The collective bargaining agreement put the risk-reward on the owners. You owe the players what you owe them, and you keep the rest. If TV deals and the gate make crazy $, you keep that upside. You also take the risk of the downside. Now they want to split that downside 50/50 with the players.
Hey its the American way!
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I'm on the players' side regarding how they should get paid. Don't pay them for the games that aren't played, of course, but they should get every dime they're owed for the games that are played.
But public statements how "I gots to get paid" and "I'm putting my life at risk" are idiotic and drain away what public support you have as players.
Doctors, nurses, grocery store workers, meat plant workers, construction workers, etc., are putting their lives at risk. A 27-year-old athlete playing baseball in a highly controlled environment surrounded by top-level medical care is not putting his life at risk.
This sums up the situation perfectly.
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Yeah, it sounds pretty stupid to say he's risking his life for nothing, when, really there are many others that are taking on much more risk for far less. If MLB comes back, you'd think it would be a fairly controlled environment, at least compared to working at a grocery store or hospital.
While he has every right to that money, it seems ridiculous to say it how he said it, when so many people are really suffering financial and economical hardships right now. There would have been better ways to get his point across.
And I totally get the players being suspicious of the owners. There are also some pretty unique circumstances right now, and you'd think the MLBPA would understand that. Especially because this is the owners first proposal in a negotiation. Trying to carry out the negotiation in public probably doesn't help anyone.
Yep.
I'm on the players' side regarding how they should get paid. Don't pay them for the games that aren't played, of course, but they should get every dime they're owed for the games that are played.
But public statements how "I gots to get paid" and "I'm putting my life at risk" are idiotic and drain away what public support you have as players.
Doctors, nurses, grocery store workers, meat plant workers, construction workers, etc., are putting their lives at risk. A 27-year-old athlete playing baseball in a highly controlled environment surrounded by top-level medical care is not putting his life at risk.
And yep.
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I don't think anyone here at least is saying the players should accept less than their contract states.
The point is Snell's remarks did a poor job of stating the players' case, plays into the stereotype that all they care about is the money, will alienate potential supporters and likely to harm the players' side in what will become - as these things invariably do - a PR battle.
You can be on the players' side while also recognizing the stupidity of Snell's comments.
For comparison's sake and how it ought to be handled, see Nolan Arenado.
https://theathletic.com/1815647/2020/05/14/rosenthal-nolan-arenado-on-talks-with-mlb-health-risks-and-wanting-to-play/
Snell can handle it how he wants to, just like any other player can handle it how they want to. It’s easy for me to sit working from home because of this and say “shut up and pitch the ball. You’re getting paid millions of dollars to do it.” If I was being put in place as a guinea pig to see how sports are handled with the risk of coronavirus I’d probably say, “Sure, pay me what I agreed to” as well. Otherwise I’ll pass on hopping on airplanes, staying in hotels, and then returning home to my family until we know more about this. If the people who can’t go into their offices because of a deadly virus want to sit on their computers at home and call me tone deaf so be it would be my mindset.
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Snell can handle it how he wants to, just like any other player can handle it how they want to.
No one is suggesting otherwise. Pakuni simply said it comes off as tone deaf. And it is.
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Snell can handle it how he wants to, just like any other player can handle it how they want to. It’s easy for me to sit working from home because of this and say “shut up and pitch the ball. You’re getting paid millions of dollars to do it.” If I was being put in place as a guinea pig to see how sports are handled with the risk of coronavirus I’d probably say, “Sure, pay me what I agreed to” as well. Otherwise I’ll pass on hopping on airplanes, staying in hotels, and then returning home to my family until we know more about this. If the people who can’t go into their offices because of a deadly virus want to sit on their computers at home and call me tone deaf so be it would be my mindset.
You’re 100% correct. Snell has every right to come off as an a$$hole. Free country.
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You’re 100% correct. Snell has every right to come off as an a$$hole. Free country.
That’s one opinion. The other opinion is it’s pretty reasonable he wouldn’t be jumping for joy if he not only has to put his, and by extension his family’s, health at risk while working under different terms than what he signed his contract to that he didn’t get to negotiate, all while taking a pay cut.
But maybe like college athletes the love of the game should be enough and they should just shut up and play the game.
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That’s one opinion. The other opinion is it’s pretty reasonable he wouldn’t be jumping for joy if he not only has to put his, and by extension his family’s, health at risk while working under different terms than what he signed his contract to that he didn’t get to negotiate, all while taking a pay cut.
So he’ll risk his family’s life for X dollars but not for Y. You actually believe that in the present environment that is a well reasoned argument that will win friends?
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So he’ll risk his family’s life for X dollars but not for Y. You actually believe that in the present environment that is a well reasoned argument that will win friends?
I believe the guy signed a contract and now billionaires want to pay him less to put himself at an unneeded risk. He didn’t sign up to take a pay cut to entertain people during a global pandemic. I don’t blame him one bit for not jumping for joy.
But it is funny coming from you, constantly questioning at what cost we kill the economy to save a life.
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But it is funny coming from you, constantly questioning at what cost we kill the economy to save a life.
Nm
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I’ll ask my ground keeper source what they know and get back to you all. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Snell’s comments are even more understandable with the safety outline the MLB has. Take a paycut to essentially stay in your house or at the ballpark for 4 straight months to play a modified version of your sport? Thanks but no thanks. If I was a player and you pay me what I signed to I’ll hold up my end of the bargain but there’s no chance I’m taking a paycut for the garbage laid out by the MLB.
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The MLB? lol. If a player is truly concerned about “the covid” they should forfeit their pay for season and just not play. I was told by my friend who know a groundkeeper in management that is an option.
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Snell’s comments are even more understandable with the safety outline the MLB has. Take a paycut to essentially stay in your house or at the ballpark for 4 straight months to play a modified version of your sport? Thanks but no thanks. If I was a player and you pay me what I signed to I’ll hold up my end of the bargain but there’s no chance I’m taking a paycut for the garbage laid out by the MLB.
Some more of Snell's comments... Just for reference. It seems his opinion has changed a bit.
“I think the media kind of hypes up the coronavirus,” Snell said. "If they want to look out for our health, that’s cool.
“But I’m not too worried about it. If I get it, I get it. If I don’t, I don’t. Either way it was meant to be.”
https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2020/03/11/rays-blake-snell-says-coronavirus-is-overhyped-if-i-get-it-i-get-it/
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Snell has a 5 year 50 million dollar contract. Meanwhile I have employees making 13 dollars an hour in direct service of covid patients. He's a bit out of touch
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The MLB? lol. If a player is truly concerned about “the covid” they should forfeit their pay for season and just not play. I was told by my friend who know a groundkeeper in management that is an option.
Is Snell suggesting that he should sit out the year AND get paid? If so, that’s ridiculous.
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I'm on the players' side regarding how they should get paid. Don't pay them for the games that aren't played, of course, but they should get every dime they're owed for the games that are played.
But public statements how "I gots to get paid" and "I'm putting my life at risk" are idiotic and drain away what public support you have as players.
Doctors, nurses, grocery store workers, meat plant workers, construction workers, etc., are putting their lives at risk. A 27-year-old athlete playing baseball in a highly controlled environment surrounded by top-level medical care is not putting his life at risk.
I see it very simple.
Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association signed a contract. The contract calls for the owners to pay the players based on certain conditions. The players accepted the contract and agreed to be paid for the work they did.
If the owners don't like it, you can ask the players to reopen negotiations. But if the players say "no," you have a contract and you have to live by it.
Period, end of discussion.
If you don't like the contract, negotiate a new one next time the contract comes due. But honor your obligations in the meantime.
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Snell refusin' work? Now da mofo is disqualified from collectin' unemployment plus $600/week. Watt an idiot, hey?
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Snell has a 5 year 50 million dollar contract. Meanwhile I have employees making 13 dollars an hour in direct service of covid patients. He's a bit out of touch
Ya think?
I generally support the players, don’t think they’re overpaid, hate it when the owners cry poor, etc. - but I have zero empathy/sympathy for Snell’s “problems” given the state of our world today.
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Ya think?
I generally support the players, don’t think they’re overpaid, hate it when the owners cry poor, etc. - but I have zero empathy/sympathy for Snell’s “problems” given the state of our world today.
Read his comments, which a number of stars have come out and supported. He never claimed to have any “problems.”
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Read his comments, which a number of stars have come out and supported. He never claimed to have any “problems.”
I'm very glad that someone as down on their luck as Snell is has someone like you to support him in his fight against those evil billionaires! God, how can a man live without a 2nd vacation home?
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I'm very glad that someone as down on their luck as Snell is has someone like you to support him in his fight against those evil billionaires! God, how can a man live without a 2nd vacation home?
Again, read his comments. That’s not his point.
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I'm very glad that someone as down on their luck as Snell is has someone like you to support him in his fight against those evil billionaires! God, how can a man live without a 2nd vacation home?
Sure it can be argued that baseball players make more money than they should. But I don't understand why he should be criticized because he doesn't want to work for less money given the circumstances.
And I agree with wades that it is odd that people are coming down on him for not wanting to play for less, instead of the owners who after years of escalating franchise values spurred a great deal by taxpayer subsidies for their stadiums, have gotten much more wealthy than the players.
And Snell owes nothing to the fans. I've seen that line a lot and it just isn't true. He's a guy doing his job.
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More wisdom sprewin' from the mouths of pampered, spoiled, and entitled athletes. I get it. They have extraordinary athletic ability, BFD. In today's world of pain and sufferin', no one wants to listen to an athlete spout off on the fact he has to pay taxes on income, get full pay for half a schedule of work, and is putting his life on the line when going back to work. Oh, and btw, Blake Snell is a certifiable idiot, aina?
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More wisdom sprewin' from the mouths of pampered, spoiled, and entitled athletes. I get it. They have extraordinary athletic ability, BFD. In today's world of pain and sufferin', no one wants to listen to an athlete spout off on the fact he has to pay taxes on income, get full pay for half a schedule of work, and is putting his life on the line when going back to work. Oh, and btw, David Snell is a certifiable idiot, aina?
I usually stick up for the athletes, but I have to agree with pretty much all of this, Doc.
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More wisdom sprewin' from the mouths of pampered, spoiled, and entitled athletes. I get it. They have extraordinary athletic ability, BFD. In today's world of pain and sufferin', no one wants to listen to an athlete spout off on the fact he has to pay taxes on income, get full pay for half a schedule of work, and is putting his life on the line when going back to work. Oh, and btw, David Snell is a certifiable idiot, aina?
What athlete has demanded full pay for half a season?
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What athlete has demanded full pay for half a season?
Snell?
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Blake Snell aka moron, hey?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NHJ_FPsrmxs
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So it starts with Boomer comparing baseball players to "essential workers." No offense but that's a stupid comparison. "Essential workers" have become the new "the troops." We are going to praise them endlessly, hold them up as an impossible-to-meet standard to bash down others, but in the end we aren't going to pay or provide for them like we should because...well...that's expensive and hard.
Anyway, Snell can do what he wants. It may be tone deaf, but if he doesn't want to play for what he would make, that's his right.
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Blake Snell aka moron, hey?
Half price werk on da toofers till the plague passes, doc?
Yes, Snell comes off as tonedeaf. But at the end of the day he's saying this - https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/29201581/lee-westwood-cites-quarantine-issues-travel-us-pga-tour-events (https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/29201581/lee-westwood-cites-quarantine-issues-travel-us-pga-tour-events).
And yet no one is jumping out of their shoes to try to score easy PR points to feel better about themselves and dunk on Lee Westwood. I've already seen Tom Glavine and Bryce Harper come out in general support of Snell's comments, and I'm sure there's more. And using essential workers to slam Snell in service of MLB owners' profit position is manipulative and disrespectiful of essential workers and misguided.
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Blake Snell aka moron, hey?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NHJ_FPsrmxs
Boomer & Gio - That's my morning show listen.
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Half price werk on da toofers till the plague passes, doc?
Yes, Snell comes off as tonedeaf. But at the end of the day he's saying this - https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/29201581/lee-westwood-cites-quarantine-issues-travel-us-pga-tour-events (https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/29201581/lee-westwood-cites-quarantine-issues-travel-us-pga-tour-events).
“At the end of the day?” LOL.
I’ve read what Snell said about “the ‘rona” and “gettin’ his”.
Westwood’s remarks were well reasoned, mature and thoughtful. Snell’s were self centered and childish. Not the same at the end of any day.
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“At the end of the day?” LOL.
I’ve read what Snell said about “the ‘rona” and “gettin’ his”.
Westwood’s remarks were well reasoned, mature and thoughtful. Snell’s were self centered and childish. Not the same at the end of any day.
They had the same essential meaning. How is this statement not self-centered?
"Right now, I won't be playing them," Westwood said in the interview. "Not with having to leave here two weeks before, quarantine, then play the two tournaments, then come back here and quarantine again. It's six weeks for two tournaments, and to me, that's just not worth it.
"And it's not worth taking the risk if everybody thinks that those kind of precautions have got to be in place. I don't feel like golf's a priority if it's that severe.''
And IMO I am OK with both of them being self-centered if they want to be. But just because someone uses language in a different manner doesn't mean they are meaning something different.
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Westwood’s remarks were well reasoned, mature and thoughtful. Snell’s were self centered and childish. Not the same at the end of any day.
Agree to disagree. I'm not going to change anyone's mind on this, but I feel pretty strongly this is more about people's position on who gets to say these things vs what was actually said.
Snell and Westwood both said that given the health risks from covid, they won't participate in their sport for what they deem to be meager compensation vs their standard comp.
Snell's comments are less articulate becuase he's 27 and was talking while playing video games. He's also angrier becaues his career earnings to date are $6M while being a cy young candidate, and he was to double those earnings with his 2020 salary alone due to his contract extension - a salary which the owners now want to reduce below the pro-ration for only playing part of the season. If he sits this year out, he's putting his money where his mouth is more than just about anyone that's spoken out on this so far.
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They had the same essential meaning. How is this statement not self-centered?
"Right now, I won't be playing them," Westwood said in the interview. "Not with having to leave here two weeks before, quarantine, then play the two tournaments, then come back here and quarantine again. It's six weeks for two tournaments, and to me, that's just not worth it.
"And it's not worth taking the risk if everybody thinks that those kind of precautions have got to be in place. I don't feel like golf's a priority if it's that severe.''
And IMO I am OK with both of them being self-centered if they want to be. But just because someone uses language in a different manner doesn't mean they are meaning something different.
Fluff
If Snell had to fly to England on his own dime, quarantine without playing (or being paid) for two weeks, play baseball for two weeks (and be paid only if he performs well) and then fly home on his own dime, quarantine and not play for two weeks (or be paid) - then I would agree that their circumstances were close to the same. I just don’t see it that way.
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Is being 27 an excuse for being inarticulate? Seems pretty old for that.
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Is being 27 an excuse for being inarticulate? Seems pretty old for that.
I know plenty of people over 27 that are inarticulate. Tying it to age does seem a bit silly.
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Is being 27 an excuse for being inarticulate? Seems pretty old for that.
Maybe not an excuse, but its representative of the broader problem of judging labor disputes by how guys say things rather than the substance of what they say. Snell, like a ton of MLBers, is a twenty-something that never went to college. When confronted with a pay cut on the heels of his first major pay day, he's not going to state his position as clearly as an owner or the league's PR machine will. Or if he does, some of the other hundreds of guys just like him won't. It doesn't undermine his or the players' position, or mean they are somehow more out of touch than the owners on the other side of the negotating table, its just a reality of trying to run PR for hundreds of young guys some of whom haven't had backgrounds that lend to giving great sound bites. If we don't judge this stuff on a bit of a curve, the players will lose every time.
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“At the end of the day?” LOL.
I’ve read what Snell said about “the ‘rona” and “gettin’ his”.
Westwood’s remarks were well reasoned, mature and thoughtful. Snell’s were self centered and childish. Not the same at the end of any day.
Let me guess. When the leader of our country comes out and says stupid garbage you're someone who says, "Don't worry about what he's saying. He doesn't mean it literally."
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Is being 27 an excuse for being inarticulate? Seems pretty old for that.
Knot ann excuse, just factually speekin', da moron iz simply an idiot, aina?
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Let me guess. When the leader of our country comes out and says stupid garbage you're someone who says, "Don't worry about what he's saying. He doesn't mean it literally."
Wrong guess. When he says stupid garbage (which is pretty frequently) I call him out for saying stupid garbage. And when he says things sarcastically I take them as such. It’s easy if you have an open mind and an ability to discern.
I don’t even have to guess about you. The way you frame your post it’s clear you take everything he says literally. That’s unfortunate, but not surprising. Blind hatred eliminates any possibility for good judgement.
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Wrong guess. When he says stupid garbage (which is pretty frequently) I call him out for saying stupid garbage. And when he says things sarcastically I take them as such. It’s easy if you have an open mind and an ability to discern.
I don’t even have to guess about you. The way you frame your post it’s clear you take everything he says literally. That’s unfortunate, but not surprising. Blind hatred eliminates any possibility for good judgement.
Let me guess. Him taking hydroxychloriquine is sarcasm? Miracle disappearance of a deadly virus is sarcasm? 0 cases by April is sarcasm? Country opened up by Easter is sarcasm? All of this followed by him calling this a pandemic before it was labeled a pandemic...sarcasm too? Everyone who wants a test can have a test...sarcasm?
No blind hatred. Just calling a terrible “leader” what he is.
Snell’s comments are so tone deaf that the rest of baseball really seems thrilled and anxious to jump all in on the proposal the owners put through. Snell vs. the world.
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Ewe fourgot won, Fol. Oh, and you can keep your own doctor, aina?
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Let me guess. Him taking hydroxychloriquine is sarcasm? Miracle disappearance of a deadly virus is sarcasm? 0 cases by April is sarcasm? Country opened up by Easter is sarcasm? All of this followed by him calling this a pandemic before it was labeled a pandemic...sarcasm too? Everyone who wants a test can have a test...sarcasm?
You’re a very bad guesser. I suggest you stay away from bookies and Vegas.
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Meant to post this over the weekend - long article from Passan about the status of the labor discussions: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29207203/the-clock-ticking-2020-mlb-season-talks-here-make-deal-work-fall-apart (https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29207203/the-clock-ticking-2020-mlb-season-talks-here-make-deal-work-fall-apart)
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If I’m a player I’m voting a hard no on this.
https://twitter.com/danwolken/status/1265444554200809479?s=21
If I’m a star player and this passes, I’m not playing.
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If I’m a player I’m voting a hard no on this.
https://twitter.com/danwolken/status/1265444554200809479?s=21
If I’m a star player and this passes, I’m not playing.
Yeah no kidding. The original plan was bad enough. This just got worse.
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The upcoming MLB draft has real potential to be a complete $hitshow. If you’re on the fence if whether or not the team you root for is in financial trouble, just watch what they do at the draft. I firmly believe there will be multiple teams that have no intention of signing their picks. And this is only a five round draft.
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If I’m a player I’m voting a hard no on this.
https://twitter.com/danwolken/status/1265444554200809479?s=21 (https://twitter.com/danwolken/status/1265444554200809479?s=21)
If I’m a star player and this passes, I’m not playing.
What can the owners do?
Attanasio paints a grim financial picture in today's paper:
“The industry has approximately $9.4 billion in revenue, so for a round number let's say it's $10 billion,” Attanasio said. “If we only play half a season, that revenue is only $5 billion. And 40% of that revenue is live-gate-related so if you play without fans, you take away $2 billion and now you're down to $3 billion. The exact number that's been calculated by the league office if we play 81 games without fans is $2.85 billion dollars.
“In a sport that has $10 billion in revenue, we have very little cash flow on an aggregate basis – $300 million or less. Of the $10 billion, half goes to the players and the other half goes to staging the games. Whether it's the folks who work for teams, the travel, anything that goes into running an organization or staging a game.
The players, who normally earn $5 billion a year in aggregate will earn half of that. So, if they get their normal rate of pay, that's $2.5 billion. But we just described that we'll earn just under $3 billion if we played this year with fans so that's almost 90% of revenues going to pay the players, who are only getting half of what their contract said they should have gotten.”
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I don't really weep for owners who have no problem pocketing all of the upside benefits of being an owner, but then are asking their employees to participate in the downside.
They may just have to operate <gasp> at a loss!!!
Or, in exchange for players taking a cut this season, pay them back their pro-rata share over the next five seasons - with interest.
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The upcoming MLB draft has real potential to be a complete $hitshow. If you’re on the fence if whether or not the team you root for is in financial trouble, just watch what they do at the draft. I firmly believe there will be multiple teams that have no intention of signing their picks. And this is only a five round draft.
Could be wrong on this, but I believe that I read that the bonuses for this years drafts will basically be deferred payments over the next 2 years.
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I don't really weep for owners who have no problem pocketing all of the upside benefits of being an owner, but then are asking their employees to participate in the downside.
They may just have to operate <gasp> at a loss!!!
Or, in exchange for players taking a cut this season, pay them back their pro-rata share over the next five seasons - with interest.
Worst of all, they are asking big contract players to fund guys at the lower end of the spectrum. For example, their offer means Mike Trout would only make about $5.7 mil of his $34 million contract for half a season.
Add in the salary cap in their offer and the players are really getting screwed.
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If there's going to be a 2020 season, the owners are probably going to have to operate at a loss for this season and the players are probably going to have to agree to play for *gasp* less than half of their normal salaries. There's a lot of posturing going on right now, but I suspect they'll get it hammered out within the next week or so. There's too much money at stake. Everybody's going to "lose money", but why would a guy like Trout not play for an amount like $7 million? Would he rather sit home and get nothing? I wouldn't.
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If there's going to be a 2020 season, the owners are probably going to have to operate at a loss for this season and the players are probably going to have to agree to play for *gasp* less than half of their normal salaries. There's a lot of posturing going on right now, but I suspect they'll get it hammered out within the next week or so. There's too much money at stake. Everybody's going to "lose money", but why would a guy like Trout not play for an amount like $7 million? Would he rather sit home and get nothing? I wouldn't.
Owners refused to share a percentage of their massive profits over the last 20 years. Now they face one year of losing money and expect players to share the burden
On top of that, they are looking to use covid as a way to institute a salary cap.
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Owners refused to share a percentage of their massive profits over the last 20 years. Now they face one year of losing money and expect players to share the burden
This doesn't seem accurate to me. Player salaries have continued to rise, there are a dozen guys that would have made over 30 million this season, 47 over 20 million and about 100 at 15 million. They don't split revenue, but the players have never wanted that.
The owners offers haven't seemed great, but if you're in a contract negotiation and the opposing side accepts your first offer, you did something terribly wrong. As ManeCity said, both sides are going to have to take a hit here, just like the rest of the country. The owners are probably going to lose some money, or at least not make much at all. The players are going to have to give a little and see that the situation has changed since March. If there isn't a season, because the sides couldn't get together on the money side, I think it could be catastrophic for the game.
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In a world where people making 80k have had salaries cut by as much as 30%, it's pretty hard to have my heart bleed for a millionaire playing baseball.
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In a world where people making 80k have had salaries cut by as much as 30%, it's pretty hard to have my heart bleed for a millionaire playing baseball.
And the billionaire owners trying to cut salaries further for more profit?
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And the billionaire owners trying to cut salaries further for more profit?
In today's world, I have no sympathy for billionaires fighting with millionaires.
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At this point, how many people even would miss baseball this year?
That's what both sides need to be worried about. Folks have a lot of other problems than "will there be baseball" right now. And if basketball and football start back up, baseball will only have been missed by its hard-core fans.
As UJ said, most Americans have very little sympathy for either side, nor should they.
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I will miss having baseball games on in the summer evenings in the summer. But I missed the NCAA tournament, the "normal" NHL and NBA playoffs, etc. It would just be another on my list.
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Scherzer tone deaf.
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Maybe. But I agree with him.
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Maybe. But I agree with him.
Agreed. Just getting out ahead of it for those who think the millionaires are selfish while the billionaires continue to become more wealthy and can’t take a hit without the millionaires also taking a hit.
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In today's world, I have no sympathy for billionaires fighting with millionaires.
Yep, this. I'm always pro player in these negotiations/situations, but both sides are looking completely awful in this situation.
Especially when it's guys like Scherzer complaining the loudest. Oh, so you're only going to make $8 million this year for 82 games instead of $30 million (or whatever his actual numbers are)
Meanwhile, there are millions out of work who usually don't even make $40k a year just desperate to get back to work so they can get a steady paycheck coming in.
I feel bad for the guys who are on the fringe, the AAAA type players, hoping this is the year they stick or get their shot in the bigs because rosters are going to be expanded. I'm sure they feel awful for Scherzer.. ::)
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Agreed. Just getting out ahead of it for those who think the millionaires are selfish while the billionaires continue to become more wealthy and can’t take a hit without the millionaires also taking a hit.
You keep beating this drum, while literally no one has taken this stance.
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Scherzer tone deaf.
An interesting thread about his comments.
https://twitter.com/eugenefreedman/status/1265978165798866949?s=21
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The way guys like Scherzer speak out sets the tone for the lower paid players under him. Similarly, the way that the most powerful and public labor organizations like the MLBPA exert their power sets the tone for how other unions and labor organizations are viewed in this country. This constant boiling down of everything to absolute wealth is depressingly reductive, and no one does anyone making less than them a favor by rolling over becaause they "don't need the money."
You want emergency pay for essential workers? Geez, if only they had some sort of collective whereby they could pool their marginal influence on their employers to exert greater wage pressure than they can exert individually. But there is a suppressive effect to us all looking at successful examples of that and then saying "well they are successful and their constitutents make money, so screw em when their employers try to renegotiate contracts that are less than three months old." If grocery store workers had a union and went on strike for emergency pay, I like to think we wouldn't all be saying "I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for grocery store workers who are still getting paid while other industries are laid off entirely." These things need to be judged by the power dynamics and contractual realities, not by an arbitrary determination of when the absolute dollars are sufficient to just be mad at everybody.
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The way guys like Scherzer speak out sets the tone for the lower paid players under him. Similarly, the way that the most powerful and public labor organizations like the MLBPA exert their power sets the tone for how other unions and labor organizations are viewed in this country. This constant boiling down of everything to absolute wealth is depressingly reductive, and no one does anyone making less than them a favor by rolling over becaause they "don't need the money."
You want emergency pay for essential workers? Geez, if only they had some sort of collective whereby they could pool their marginal influence on their employers to exert greater wage pressure than they can exert individually. But there is a suppressive effect to us all looking at successful examples of that and then saying "well they are successful and their constitutents make money, so screw em when their employers try to renegotiate contracts that are less than three months old." If grocery store workers had a union and went on strike for emergency pay, I like to think we wouldn't all be saying "I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for grocery store workers who are still getting paid while other industries are laid off entirely." These things need to be judged by the power dynamics and contractual realities, not by an arbitrary determination of when the absolute dollars are sufficient to just be mad at everybody.
I totally get what you're saying. I was a union guy for much of my career, too. But I do think there's a bit of a leap from the MLBPA to a grocery union, and I think most discerning people can make the distinction.
I also don't feel any "worse" or "better" for the players than I do for the owners; both always want more, as just about everybody does.
I do think those voicing their opinions should choose their words carefully, because most Americans have a lot more to worry about than some millionaire ballplayer feeling slighted or some billionaire owner feeling a tad less billionaire-y.
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Labor is labor. From a societal perspective, am I concerned with the MLB owners trying to share the costs and internalize profits? Not really. Max Scherzer and Blake Snell have multi generational wealth and will be just fine. Not so much for minor leagues and players under pre arb contracts.
I think the MLBPA and other players unions are bellwethers for the movement writ large, though, and I'd be concerned about macro shifts and new norms in labor movements.
Agree with 82 that the players have a messaging challenge, as most of us are not inclined to be sympathetic to the plight of millionaires.
Scott Boras' memo is a refreshing perspective of this challenge:
https://apnews.com/103a8516de52f487b57173992a558816 (https://apnews.com/103a8516de52f487b57173992a558816)
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The players have a messaging challenge I guess, but you can't really counter an argument of "they make enough money already," or "there are thousands of people who would do what they do for free."
You really can't respond to those types of comments in any meaningful way - so you basically have to ignore them.
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And the billionaire owners trying to cut salaries further for more profit?
What profits? Won’t MLB will operate (if it operates) at a loss this year whether Scherzer is paid 15 million or 8 million? From a financial standpoint isn’t the best outcome for the owners no baseball?
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In the NFL and the NBA, the league promotes its stars that is one way in which they grow their game.
MLB, on the other hand, has traditionally attacked its stars as greedy. It is now looking to blame star players for the lockout.
Rob Manfred has been terrible for the game, following the tradition of Bud Selig in helping the owners make mega-profits while refusing to promote the game.
Good for the owners and good for the game are two completely different things.
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What profits? Won’t MLB will operate (if it operates) at a loss this year whether Scherzer is paid 15 million or 8 million? From a financial standpoint isn’t the best outcome for the owners no baseball?
For the short term, for 2020, yes. But the owners stand to lose more in the long run if they cling to this short-sighted view. They're probably going to have to just suck it up and take their 2020 losses for the long-term good of the sport, and recognize the fact that they make their money on the appreciation of the franchise values over time. They could potentially suffer huge losses if the game's popularity is damaged over this fight that will make this year's losses look like popcorn sales.
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Scherzer tone deaf.
Yeah, but he’s not wrong.
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Yeah, but he’s not wrong.
Agreed.
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Agreed.
MLBPA has a small battle here and a massive war ahead of them.
I don’t see how they come out on top.
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MLBPA has a small battle here and a massive war ahead of them.
I don’t see how they come out on top.
I think you are spot on.
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Funny stuff. Judge dismisses libel case brought by Leeny Dykstra against a book by Ron Darling, saying:
“Based on the papers submitted on this motion, prior to the publication of the book, Dykstra was infamous for being, among other things, racist, misogynist, and anti-gay, as well as a sexual predator, a drug-abuser, a thief, and an embezzler. Further, Dykstra had a reputation—largely due to his autobiography—of being willing to do anything to benefit himself and his team, including using steroids and blackmailing umpires . . . Considering this information, which was presumably known to the average reader of the book, this Court finds that, as a matter of law, the reference in the book has not exposed Dykstra to any further “public contempt, ridicule, aversion or disgrace,” or “evil opinion of him in the minds of right-thinking persons,” or “deprivation of friendly intercourse in society.”
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Funny stuff. Judge dismisses libel case brought by Leeny Dykstra against a book by Ron Darling, saying:
“Based on the papers submitted on this motion, prior to the publication of the book, Dykstra was infamous for being, among other things, racist, misogynist, and anti-gay, as well as a sexual predator, a drug-abuser, a thief, and an embezzler. Further, Dykstra had a reputation—largely due to his autobiography—of being willing to do anything to benefit himself and his team, including using steroids and blackmailing umpires . . . Considering this information, which was presumably known to the average reader of the book, this Court finds that, as a matter of law, the reference in the book has not exposed Dykstra to any further “public contempt, ridicule, aversion or disgrace,” or “evil opinion of him in the minds of right-thinking persons,” or “deprivation of friendly intercourse in society.”
That's great stuff.
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Funny stuff. Judge dismisses libel case brought by Leeny Dykstra against a book by Ron Darling, saying:
“Based on the papers submitted on this motion, prior to the publication of the book, Dykstra was infamous for being, among other things, racist, misogynist, and anti-gay, as well as a sexual predator, a drug-abuser, a thief, and an embezzler. Further, Dykstra had a reputation—largely due to his autobiography—of being willing to do anything to benefit himself and his team, including using steroids and blackmailing umpires . . . Considering this information, which was presumably known to the average reader of the book, this Court finds that, as a matter of law, the reference in the book has not exposed Dykstra to any further “public contempt, ridicule, aversion or disgrace,” or “evil opinion of him in the minds of right-thinking persons,” or “deprivation of friendly intercourse in society.”
Legalese dunking is the best kind of dunking.
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So ... MLB Draft talk?
Seems like all the mocks before today has the White Soc with either Patrick Bailey or Tyler Soderstrom. Then today, seemingly everyone switched their pick to Garret Crotchet. Either somebody knows something or somebody wants everyone to think they know something.
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So ... MLB Draft talk?
Seems like all the mocks before today has the White Soc with either Patrick Bailey or Tyler Soderstrom. Then today, seemingly everyone switched their pick to Garret Crotchet. Either somebody knows something or somebody wants everyone to think they know something.
Love the Crotchet pick. Also fills a need as the Sox system could use a potential stud left hander. Hopefully he is Chris Sale, worst case Hader/Andrew Miller comp.
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Love the Crotchet pick. Also fills a need as the Sox system could use a potential stud left hander. Hopefully he is Chris Sale, worst case Hader/Andrew Miller comp.
Like the stuff a lot, a little worried about durability.
Bummed that the Cubs took Ed Howard.
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Love the Crotchet pick. Also fills a need as the Sox system could use a potential stud left hander. Hopefully he is Chris Sale, worst case Hader/Andrew Miller comp.
Being a historically dominant reliever for a couple years as a “worst case” would be pretty nice.
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Detroit farm system is loaded with plus arms. Glad to see them take a bat in Torkleson.
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Being a historically dominant reliever for a couple years as a “worst case” would be pretty nice.
Sorry, I should have stated “worst case ceiling comp”. Meaning they project him as a starter, but he could wind up as a late inning reliever.
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Love the Crotchet pick. Also fills a need as the Sox system could use a potential stud left hander. Hopefully he is Chris Sale, worst case Hader/Andrew Miller comp.
There has been some speculation that the Sox will under slot Crochet and take Jared Kelley overslot tomorrow. Which would be great.
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Ed Howard is such a classic Chicago athlete name. And being on the LLWS squad is just bonus. Hope he becomes a star on the Northside
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There has been some speculation that the Sox will under slot Crochet and take Jared Kelley overslot tomorrow. Which would be great.
I’d be thrilled with Kelley, it seems like they’d have to throw away their other 3 picks to sign him. In a 5 round draft, I don’t know if that’s great or stupid.
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This is a good piece about the financials.
Cards owner Bill Dewitt, who often leads many MLB owner committees, made a few curious comments this past week in a local radio interview. The comments were picked up by National baseball media. The article uses Dewitt as an example, breaks down the numbers (including his 12% annual return over 24 years.) The only thing missing in the piece is the money from the new neighborhood built around the stadium by the team. Max Scherzer interestingly enough is a St. Louis native who came close to pitching for the Cardinals.
https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/59421/veteran-presence-thats-rich/
Dewitt was recently in the news for purchasing Eva Longoria's L.A. Villa.
https://www.latimes.com/business/real-estate/story/2020-05-11/cardinals-owner-bill-dewitt-buys-eva-longoria-hollywood-hills-villa?_amp=true
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Wow, the Sox drafted Kelley. If they can sign him, that's some high velocity stuff coming from their top 2 picks. I like the gamble here, their offense should be very good moving forward, getting some premium young arms in the system is alright by me. Kelley is still years away, but love the upside.
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Boomshakalaka! Love it! Sox got two top 20 talent pitchers with TOR stuff. Plenty of risk on both, but gotta love it. I like Shirley more than Hostetler already.
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Detroit drafted a candidate for the all-name team. Dillon Dingler. Catcher out of Ohio St. I really want him to make the majors because I really want to hear the announcers say his name.
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Detroit drafted a candidate for the all-name team. Dillon Dingler. Catcher out of Ohio St. I really want him to make the majors because I really want to hear the announcers say his name.
Didnt Marky Mark play him once?
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Boomshakalaka! Love it! Sox got two top 20 talent pitchers with TOR stuff. Plenty of risk on both, but gotta love it. I like Shirley more than Hostetler already.
Fingers crossed that both sign.
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Fingers crossed that both sign.
Seems that the way the Sox punted on rounds 3-5 is a sign that they have a deal, or the makings of a deal.
At least the optimist in me thinks so.
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Seems that the way the Sox punted on rounds 3-5 is a sign that they have a deal, or the makings of a deal.
At least the optimist in me thinks so.
The rumor is they already have a deal with Kelley. Crotchet may end up being the more difficult signing.
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I hope baseball comes back in time for these new players' 30th birthdays!
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The rumor is they already have a deal with Kelley. Crotchet may end up being the more difficult signing.
Could be, but unless the Sox are trying to way underslot him, that would be a HUGE gamble by him. The track record for 1st round pitchers who don’t sign is bad.
Worst case, Sox get the #12 pick next year. I like Crotchet's upside, but he's not a generational talent. I imagine they'd get a similar talent at 12 in 2021.
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The rumor is they already have a deal with Kelley. Crotchet may end up being the more difficult signing.
I'd guess they had a pretty specific idea what it would take to sign both before they selected either.
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I'd guess they had a pretty specific idea what it would take to sign both before they selected either.
Yeah, I don’t think they blindly gambled here. I’m excited, this hasn’t been the Sox draft philosophy of recent years. I think they assume they won’t be drafting around the top 10 again for awhile hopefully, and they honed in on two guys with high upside.
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I'm not going to pretend to know more than the scouts, because i only really know what articles tell me about the MLB draft after the fact. But it seems kinda insane that Clayton Beeter fell to the Dodgers at 66. Everything I read says he had the best stuff in the draft, and an elite curveball - I had seen him mentioned with teams in the middle of the first round pre-draft.
I know he has a tommy john under his belt already, and I guess teams were worried he might not be able to log starters innings. But who cares? The way baseball is going, if his stuff is that good, no one goes 7 IP anymore anyway. Such a huge part of the Dodgers success has been prioritizing quality, and getting their quanitity from the number of arms rather than how deep into games those arms can go. Guys like Beeter are just going to continue to build that out.
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I'm not going to pretend to know more than the scouts, because i only really know what articles tell me about the MLB draft after the fact. But it seems kinda insane that Clayton Beeter fell to the Dodgers at 66. Everything I read says he had the best stuff in the draft, and an elite curveball - I had seen him mentioned with teams in the middle of the first round pre-draft.
I know he has a tommy john under his belt already, and I guess teams were worried he might not be able to log starters innings. But who cares? The way baseball is going, if his stuff is that good, no one goes 7 IP anymore anyway. Such a huge part of the Dodgers success has been prioritizing quality, and getting their quanitity from the number of arms rather than how deep into games those arms can go. Guys like Beeter are just going to continue to build that out.
He was a bit all over in mock drafts, I think not only because of the TJ, which you mentioned, but also because he had only thrown something like 40 innings in college. Great stuff, but just not too much of a track record. Which adds risk, which moves him down. I wouldn't be surprised if the Dodgers completely benefit. They seem to be one of those organizations that always scouts and drafts well.
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But they can't afford to players, much less minor leaguers.
@AndrewMarchand: BREAKING: MLB and Turner Sports have agreed to a new billion dollar deal for the network to continue broadcasting an LCS and the playoffs, The Post has learned.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/13/mlb-lands-billion-dollar-deal-with-turner-sports-to-broadcast-playoffs/
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Blake Snell is so selfish.
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Blake Snell is so selfish.
No, just incapable of keeping his foot out of his mouth.
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No, just incapable of keeping his foot out of his mouth.
Maybe he just knows he’s helping to make incredibly wealthy people even more wealthy and he doesn’t like being penny pinched by them to basically put aside his entire life during a global pandemic just to entertain people.
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Maybe he just knows he’s helping to make incredibly wealthy people even more wealthy and he doesn’t like being penny pinched by them to basically put aside his entire life during a global pandemic just to entertain people.
With all due respect , playing baseball to entertain people is his job. For which he is very well compensated. I'm all for the players getting every penny they're contractually owed, but putting aside his entire life? Please. He's not a video gamer who sacrifices his spare time to entertain us on the baseball field. It's his job. By choice. Nobody should feel sorry for him.
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With all due respect , playing baseball to entertain people is his job. For which he is very well compensated. I'm all for the players getting every penny they're contractually owed, but putting aside his entire life? Please. He's not a video gamer who sacrifices his spare time to entertain us on the baseball field. It's his job. By choice. Nobody should feel sorry for him.
Did you see the guidelines the MLB has? Heck even the NBA for that matter. They didn’t sign up to risk getting covid while literally locking themselves in a hotel room for 3 straight months and play in front of nobody because it’s not even safe for people to sit in stands, let alone sweat all over each other on a field/court of competition.
If I had a few million dollars in my bank account and my options were get paid less than what I signed up for to live as stated above or skip getting paid for a year I’d definitely at least consider the second option.
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Did you see the guidelines the MLB has? Heck even the NBA for that matter. They didn’t sign up to risk getting covid while literally locking themselves in a hotel room for 3 straight months and play in front of nobody because it’s not even safe for people to sit in stands, let alone sweat all over each other on a field/court of competition.
If I had a few million dollars in my bank account and my options were get paid less than what I signed up for to live as stated above or skip getting paid for a year I’d definitely at least consider the second option.
I have seen the guidelines. Players will be much safer playing baseball than they will going to the grocery store or have family over for a birthday celebration.
Here's the thing ... nobody is making anyone play. If Blake Snell or any other player truly believes they're risking their lives by playing, they're free to sit out.
But that's not happening here. If they really believed this was a life-or-death risk, they'd all refuse to play. I would, too. But I can't think of a single player who's said that. Certainly not Snell. They're not worried about their health. They're worried about getting paid. And they're worried about setting a precedent that could lead to a cap.
I'm all for the players getting paid. I'm against either side lying about their motivations.
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I have seen the guidelines. Players will be much safer playing baseball than they will going to the grocery store or have family over for a birthday celebration.
Here's the thing ... nobody is making anyone play. If Blake Snell or any other player truly believes they're risking their lives by playing, they're free to sit out.
But that's not happening here. If they really believed this was a life-or-death risk, they'd all refuse to play. I would, too. But I can't think of a single player who's said that. Certainly not Snell. They're not worried about their health. They're worried about getting paid. And they're worried about setting a precedent that could lead to a cap.
I'm all for the players getting paid. I'm against either side lying about their motivations.
That’s all he said. That he’ll sit out if he isn’t getting paid what he signed to play for. Which he has every right to do.
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Top of the 5th, nobody on, nobody out. Line score:
Pakuni 5 6 0
Wades 0 0 2
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Top of the 5th, nobody on, nobody out. Line score:
Pakuni 5 6 0
Wades 0 0 2
I’d be worried if Lenny had me winning something. Glad to know I’m right where I should be.
What really matters is what the players think. And given that they continue to reject proposals with no counter offers, it appears the players see Snell as correct.
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The players told MLB today that they will play a season for as long as the owners wish but will not agree to less than prorated salary or expanded post season.
Seems reasonable to me.
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I’d be worried if Lenny had me winning something. Glad to know I’m right where I should be.
As Brian Wilson once wrote, “Don’t Worry, Baby”.
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The players told MLB today that they will play a season for as long as the owners wish but will not agree to less than prorated salary or expanded post season.
Seems reasonable to me.
Agreed.
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https://twitter.com/DanielDescalso/status/1271647651285487616?s=19
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https://twitter.com/DanielDescalso/status/1271647651285487616?s=19
Yup.
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The players told MLB today that they will play a season for as long as the owners wish but will not agree to less than prorated salary or expanded post season.
Seems reasonable to me.
Not really. They are taking the top 2 things that are important to the owners off the table. If what they are looking for is a crapty 50 game season that just makes everyone mad, this is how to get it. Both sides have been completely stupid about this.
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Not really. They are taking the top 2 things that are important to the owners off the table. If what they are looking for is a crapty 50 game season that just makes everyone mad, this is how to get it. Both sides have been completely stupid about this.
I love baseball, I miss baseball. But if my choice is no baseball or a 50 game season, it’s not even close. No baseball (as bad as that would be) wins in a walk.
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I love baseball, I miss baseball. But if my choice is no baseball or a 50 game season, it%u2019s not even close. No baseball (as bad as that would be) wins in a walk.
Yes, I agree of course, I meant that the deal will make both the MLBPA and the owners mad.
Oh and by the way, the MLBPA already gave the owners the ability to set the number of games. Which the owners will make as few as possible so they pay less in salary. The players don't "win" anything in that scenario. They still only get their 6 donuts.
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In 6 weeks, the NBA and NHL will be going and the NFL will be starting training camp. Baseball will be forgotten. That's what all of them (especially the owners) should be worried about.
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In 6 weeks, the NBA and NHL will be going and the NFL will be starting training camp. Baseball will be forgotten. That's what all of them (especially the owners) should be worried about.
Yeah. They are fighting over dollars now, and could all lose fortunes because of it. It is idiotic.
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Yeah. They are fighting over dollars now, and could all lose fortunes because of it. It is idiotic.
Both sides are willing to sacrifice this season to win the next CBA.
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Both sides are willing to sacrifice this season to win the next CBA.
Good point, Pak.
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Not really. They are taking the top 2 things that are important to the owners off the table. If what they are looking for is a crapty 50 game season that just makes everyone mad, this is how to get it. Both sides have been completely stupid about this.
Nope. Players have no obligation to take a per game cut. And they shouldn’t. Why should they play for less than that?
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Don't give a chit 'bout boat deez entitled groups. Got bigga fish ta fry and baseball/sports is a small capillary feedin' da entire ocean, hey?
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Don't give a chit 'bout boat deez entitled groups. Got bigga fish ta fry and baseball/sports is a small capillary feedin' da entire ocean, hey?
+1, Doc. No good guys vs bad guys. Just good old greedy self interest vs greedy self interest. People who can’t see that are blind partisans and/or fools.
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Nope. Players have no obligation to take a per game cut. And they shouldn’t. Why should they play for less than that?
They have no obligation, correct. But MLB has the power to implement a season of however many games they want, I believe as long as it is at least 50 games. The players have said that 30% of their salaries is not enough and they don't want that and won't negotiate on a per game pay cut. That will result in a 50 game season and players making 30% of their salaries. It is stupid. Neitgwr side is really negotiating in good faith ( but the players have tried at least, the owners haven't at all). With both sides essentially participating in boulwarism, nothing gets accomplished.
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They have no obligation, correct. But MLB has the power to implement a season of however many games they want, I believe as long as it is at least 50 games. The players have said that 30% of their salaries is not enough and they don't want that and won't negotiate on a per game pay cut. That will result in a 50 game season and players making 30% of their salaries. It is stupid. Neitgwr side is really negotiating in good faith ( but the players have tried at least, the owners haven't at all). With both sides essentially participating in boulwarism, nothing gets accomplished.
I get that. I just don’t like the narratives I read suggesting the players are being greedy for not paying for less.
+1, Doc. No good guys vs bad guys. Just good old greedy self interest vs greedy self interest. People who can’t see that are blind partisans and/or fools.
Well protecting your self-interest is what negotiations are about right? Greedy is just in the eye of the beholder.
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I get that. I just don’t like the narratives I read suggesting the players are being greedy for not paying for less.
Well protecting your self-interest is what negotiations are about right? Greedy is just in the eye of the beholder.
True. I understand the principle. But to my set of eyes someone living paycheck to paycheck negotiating with a business owner barely turning a profit looks different than a group of millionaires/multimillionaires arguing with a group of multimillionaires/billionaires about whether the former is willing to take a salary cut to help mitigate the latter’s losses due to a pandemic. However this one comes out the players and owners will be millionaires, multimillionaires and billionaires. And the ones who get screwed will be the fans.
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nm
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True. I understand the principle. But to my set of eyes someone living paycheck to paycheck negotiating with a business owner barely turning a profit looks different than a group of millionaires/multimillionaires arguing with a group of multimillionaires/billionaires about whether the former is willing to take a salary cut to help mitigate the latter’s losses due to a pandemic. However this one comes out the players and owners will be millionaires, multimillionaires and billionaires. And the ones who get screwed will be the fans.
This exactly. Neither players nor owners deserve any sympathy. Players are the ones fans see, follow and cheer/boo, so it's not surprising if they get the brunt of criticism.
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Being mad at everyone equally without digging into the nuance is implicit support for the owners.
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I don't understand why the players are hell bent on the 100% prorating of their contracts. They would make more in 85% of 65 games than 100% of 50 games. And more in 85% of 81 games than 100% in 65 games. You'd think most players would be more interested in the bottom line they are making as opposed to their per game rate. Especially when so many people have had to take a % reduction of their rates this year.
What they are looking at right now is a 50 game season with regular playoffs. Basically the worst possible outcome for both sides. Nice work guys. You negotiated a lose-lose deal.
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I don't understand why the players are hell bent on the 100% prorating of their contracts. They would make more in 85% of 65 games than 100% of 50 games. And more in 85% of 81 games than 100% in 65 games. You'd think most players would be more interested in the bottom line they are making as opposed to their per game rate. Especially when so many people have had to take a % reduction of their rates this year.
What they are looking at right now is a 50 game season with regular playoffs. Basically the worst possible outcome for both sides. Nice work guys. You negotiated a lose-lose deal.
I don’t think the owners are offering that though. All offers are the same dollar amount, just packaged differently.
There are many rich players, but based on how MLBs pre-arbitration suppresses contracts, not all are making millions. Many good young players are still at around $600k. I’d certainly be happy with that paycheck, but not everyone is making 5M a year.
That’s all after these guys didn’t make a living wage in the minors.
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I don't understand why the players are hell bent on the 100% prorating of their contracts. They would make more in 85% of 65 games than 100% of 50 games. And more in 85% of 81 games than 100% in 65 games. You'd think most players would be more interested in the bottom line they are making as opposed to their per game rate. Especially when so many people have had to take a % reduction of their rates this year.
What they are looking at right now is a 50 game season with regular playoffs. Basically the worst possible outcome for both sides. Nice work guys. You negotiated a lose-lose deal.
I was thinking the same.
cheebs09 - I think you're right but the players should counteroffer with along the lines of what you said.
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I don't understand why the players are hell bent on the 100% prorating of their contracts. They would make more in 85% of 65 games than 100% of 50 games. And more in 85% of 81 games than 100% in 65 games. You'd think most players would be more interested in the bottom line they are making as opposed to their per game rate. Especially when so many people have had to take a % reduction of their rates this year.
What they are looking at right now is a 50 game season with regular playoffs. Basically the worst possible outcome for both sides. Nice work guys. You negotiated a lose-lose deal.
It's all about the next CBA. Players aren't going to accept anything that sets the stage for any kind of revenue split, leading to imposition of a cap. They'd rather make less this year than open the door to a cap in the future.
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There's a possibility on the horizon of fans not stepping into MLB ballparks until 2023 (covid and potential players strike). Crazy to think about, but it's not an impossible scenario.
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I don’t think the owners are offering that though. All offers are the same dollar amount, just packaged differently.
There are many rich players, but based on how MLBs pre-arbitration suppresses contracts, not all are making millions. Many good young players are still at around $600k. I’d certainly be happy with that paycheck, but not everyone is making 5M a year.
That’s all after these guys didn’t make a living wage in the minors.
Yeah, and don't you think those guys specifically, would rather make more bottom line, than per game? For a guy making 600K per season, they will make about 20K more in 65 games at 85% than in 50 games at 100%. That seems like it would be significant for a guy just coming off minor league starvation wages.
And you're right about if the owners are offering that. Neither side is negotiating in good faith. They are both being idiots trying to make some point for the next CBA, and they will drive away fans hurting themselves in the short run and the long run.
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Yeah, and don't you think those guys specifically, would rather make more bottom line, than per game? For a guy making 600K per season, they will make about 20K more in 65 games at 85% than in 50 games at 100%. That seems like it would be significant for a guy just coming off minor league starvation wages.
And you're right about if the owners are offering that. Neither side is negotiating in good faith. They are both being idiots trying to make some point for the next CBA, and they will drive away fans hurting themselves in the short run and the long run.
The owners' last offer only guarantees 70 percent prorated salary for 72 games.
For a guy making $600K over a full season, that's about $186,000. For that same player, 50 games at 100 percent salary is $185,000.
So basically, they're asking that guy to play 22 more games for perhaps as little as $1,000.
You're right that they're both trying to make a point for the next CBA, but it's a pretty important point. It's very much against the players' long-term interest to set precedent for a revenue-sharing structure heading into labor negotiations. And sacrificing a (relatively) little money today to avoid a cap for another 4-5 years is a worthy trade-off for them.
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Love a sport as much as baseball hates itself
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https://twitter.com/baueroutage/status/1272641345941721088?s=21
Bauer calls out Manfred as saying it’s a stall tactic since they could easily play 64-72 games if started planning now.
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https://twitter.com/baueroutage/status/1272641345941721088?s=21
Bauer calls out Manfred as saying it’s a stall tactic since they could easily play 64-72 games if started planning now.
AKA ... Insufferable twat calls out insufferable twat.
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Owners have determined that they will lose money this year. They also know players will demand 100% prorated salary.
Thus owners will keep Season as short as possible - 48 games.
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Not that it'll do anything, but here is a petition to remove Rob Manfred.
https://t.co/g1O5vNRvGT
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Being mad at everyone equally without digging into the nuance is implicit support for the owners.
I’m knee deep in nuance and support neither.
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Not that it'll do anything, but here is a petition to remove Rob Manfred.
https://t.co/g1O5vNRvGT
Rob Manfred is doing exactly what the owners pay him to do.... take heat from the players and fans for ownership's decisions
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They've finally learned to deploy the strategy NFL owners have been using successfully for years.
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Does anyone hate baseball as much as owners?
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Does anyone hate baseball as much as owners?
Most younger demographics
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Most younger demographics
Worse than hate - indifference.
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I’m knee deep in nuance and support neither.
And that's fine, but the owners will gladly take that. Adjudicating equal fault and blame here benefits the owners. They have an ability to wait this out and be the bad guys in a way the players don't. MLB franchise values grew at a 9.3% annual compounded rate from 1991-2000 despite a strike cancelling the 1990 season and the 1994 playoffs. So they don't care about "what's good for the game."
And those 30 guys plus Manfred know they can wait out the players on annual revenue too. They know the players association can't keep the union together for very long with no pay. Too many disparate interests (young vs old players, position players vs pitchers injury risk) and they know that stars won't let the primes of their careers go by holding out for a better deal.
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And that's fine, but the owners will gladly take that. Adjudicating equal fault and blame here benefits the owners. They have an ability to wait this out and be the bad guys in a way the players don't. MLB franchise values grew at a 9.3% annual compounded rate from 1991-2000 despite a strike cancelling the 1990 season and the 1994 playoffs. So they don't care about "what's good for the game."
And those 30 guys plus Manfred know they can wait out the players on annual revenue too. They know the players association can't keep the union together for very long with no pay. Too many disparate interests (young vs old players, position players vs pitchers injury risk) and they know that stars won't let the primes of their careers go by holding out for a better deal.
This guy gets it.
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This guy gets it.
Everyone gets it. The owners are crapbags. No one has once said otherwise.
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Everyone gets it. The owners are crapbags. No one has once said otherwise.
Exactly. The owners are bad. They deserve the blame here. This is not a "both sides" situation. No one here says otherwise. That doesn't make the other side "good." The PA has shown it's not above lying either, nor do they care any more about the fans than the owners.
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Exactly. The owners are bad. They deserve the blame here. This is not a "both sides" situation. No one here says otherwise. That doesn't make the other side "good." The PA has shown it's not above lying either, nor do they care any more about the fans than the owners.
Well said.
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And that's fine, but the owners will gladly take that. Adjudicating equal fault and blame here benefits the owners. They have an ability to wait this out and be the bad guys in a way the players don't. MLB franchise values grew at a 9.3% annual compounded rate from 1991-2000 despite a strike cancelling the 1990 season and the 1994 playoffs. So they don't care about "what's good for the game."
And those 30 guys plus Manfred know they can wait out the players on annual revenue too. They know the players association can't keep the union together for very long with no pay. Too many disparate interests (young vs old players, position players vs pitchers injury risk) and they know that stars won't let the primes of their careers go by holding out for a better deal.
The owners are greedy, stubborn and don’t give a sh!t about the fans. The players are greedy, stubborn and don’t give a sh!t about the fans. But the owners have leverage.
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I don't understand why the players are hell bent on the 100% prorating of their contracts. They would make more in 85% of 65 games than 100% of 50 games. And more in 85% of 81 games than 100% in 65 games. You'd think most players would be more interested in the bottom line they are making as opposed to their per game rate. Especially when so many people have had to take a % reduction of their rates this year.
Because that is what the owners and players agreed on in their March deal.
Owners want to privatize any profits they receive and socialize any loses. In other words, when the owners have made huge profits over the last 15 years, they never offered a percentage to the players. Now that there will be one year with possible losses, they want the players to be full partners.
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The owners are greedy, stubborn and don’t give a sh!t about the fans. The players are greedy, stubborn and don’t give a sh!t about the fans. But the owners have leverage.
And that leverage is an increased willingness for there to be no baseball. So if the fans interest is that baseball is played, I don't see how both parties are equally to blame for screwing over the fans.
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Because that is what the owners and players agreed on in their March deal.
This is where both sides really are lying.
The March deal did allow the owners to seek to reopen negotiations on financial matters if games had to be played without fans. The PA has lied about this when they claim the owners are reneging on the March deal.
At the same time, while the owners can seek to renogotiate, the players aren't obligated to do so. So the owners are full of sh-- when they say the players are acting in bad faith by declining to renegotiate the terms.
Both are exercising their rights under the deal, and both are lying about other.
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This is where both sides really are lying.
The March deal did allow the owners to seek to reopen negotiations on financial matters if games had to be played without fans. The PA has lied about this when they claim the owners are reneging on the March deal.
At the same time, while the owners can seek to renogotiate, the players aren't obligated to do so. So the owners are full of sh-- when they say the players are acting in bad faith by declining to renegotiate the terms.
Both are exercising their rights under the deal, and both are lying about other.
Yup. The deal was that MLB was free to unilaterally schedule whatever season it could, provided the players received full 100% pro rata pay. It was inferred between the parties that if MLB chose not to schedule a season to the fullest extent it was able, the PA would file a grievance. To head that off, MLB was able to force the parties back to the table if scheduling a season on the partial-season-for-full-pro-rata-pay model was not "economically feasible." So the pissing match comes down to whether or not no fans makes the terms of the March agreement "economically unfeasible."
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This is where both sides really are lying.
The March deal did allow the owners to seek to reopen negotiations on financial matters if games had to be played without fans. The PA has lied about this when they claim the owners are reneging on the March deal.
At the same time, while the owners can seek to renogotiate, the players aren't obligated to do so. So the owners are full of sh-- when they say the players are acting in bad faith by declining to renegotiate the terms.
Both are exercising their rights under the deal, and both are lying about other.
PA lying and full of sh!t? Check.
Owners lying and full of sh!t? Check.
A pox on both of their houses.
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And I just view the players' lie as altogether different than the owners'. The owners want to throw out the framework of the March deal becuase games without fans is "economically unfeasible." But they have never and will not provide reliable revenue numbers for past years as context. They are demanding the union negotiate without sufficient information, which ain't right if you are trying to socialize your losses.
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And I just view the players' lie as altogether different than the owners'.
Burrow
I think (in general) you back the players and oppose the owners. When you bring a bias you’ll view each sides lies differently.
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Burrow
I think (in general) you back the players and oppose the owners. When you bring a bias you’ll view each sides lies differently.
No doubt you're right about that.
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https://theathletic.com/1875769/2020/06/17/posnanski-mlb-owners-are-committed-to-not-spending-more-fans-will-pay-the-price/?amp#click=https://t.co/fljgfXRW3T
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https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1273320338017968130
Reportedly approaching a deal with pro-rated pay and expanded playoffs. Mandfred and Clark have been meeting in person.
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https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1273320338017968130
Reportedly approaching a deal with pro-rated pay and expanded playoffs. Mandfred and Clark have been meeting in person.
It was reported somewhere that it looks like about a 70ish game season.
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https://theathletic.com/1875769/2020/06/17/posnanski-mlb-owners-are-committed-to-not-spending-more-fans-will-pay-the-price/?amp#click=https://t.co/fljgfXRW3T
Two things.
1. I read the article earlier today. It is outstanding.
2. Mild criticism of your post. I assume most posters cannot read the article you linked to. So, to you and other posters who do this, please post a short summary to start a discussion. I oppose (as do most here) copying and pasting an article behind a paywall, but a summary in your own words is fine.
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It was reported somewhere that it looks like about a 70ish game season.
Buster Olney reporting 60. Seems like it is still a little fluid.
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MLBPA Communications @MLBPA_News
Reports of an agreement are false.
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Offer is for 60 games in 70 days, and expanded playoffs in 20 and 21 (16 teams).
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Reely don't give a chit 'bout any of deez pro sports. Dave sucked out all da fun outta sportz, hey?
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Reely don't give a chit 'bout any of deez pro sports. Dave sucked out all da fun outta sportz, hey?
Dave sucks. Hate that guy.
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Crean sucks
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Play fooking ball.
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Dave sucks. Hate that guy.
Dave’s not here.
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Two things.
1. I read the article earlier today. It is outstanding.
2. Mild criticism of your post. I assume most posters cannot read the article you linked to. So, to you and other posters who do this, please post a short summary to start a discussion. I oppose (as do most here) copying and pasting an article behind a paywall, but a summary in your own words is fine.
Yep fair. Yeah I was going to add summary and didn't. And, I was going to add that The Athletic does frequent free trials including a free 3 month trial during the pandemic for those unable to subscribe, meaning it is pretty easy to read one off articles sometimes.
Amusing line I heard today was how KC's new off season owner saw his $1billion purchase go to a new value of $1 billion $25 million.....as he somehow must have found $25 million in the seat cushions before the team even played a game under the new ownership.
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Offer is for 60 games in 70 days, and expanded playoffs in 20 and 21 (16 teams).
66
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It is being reported that the proposed new deal would have universal DH for 2020 and 2021. And, it would most likely continue with new CBA after that.
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It is being reported that the proposed new deal would have universal DH for 2020 and 2021. And, it would most likely continue with new CBA after that.
Finally.
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It is being reported that the proposed new deal would have universal DH for 2020 and 2021. And, it would most likely continue with new CBA after that.
Booooo
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It is being reported that the proposed new deal would have universal DH for 2020 and 2021. And, it would most likely continue with new CBA after that.
Thank God.
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From an alleged memo from the PA to players today:
The union letter included other details in its summary of the meeting:- Spring training would begin no later than June 28 for position players.
- The season would consist of 60 games, beginning July 19 or 20 and ending Sept. 27.
- Expanded postseason in 2020 and 2021, with a minimum players’ pool of $25 million.
- 100 percent prorated salaries (60 games would amount to about 37 percent of a 162-game season and salary)
- Designated hitter in both leagues in 2020 and 2021.
- Opt-out rights for high-risk individuals, as defined by the CDC.
- MLB would direct $10 million for social justice initiatives.
- ‘Minimum’ player commitments for broadcast elements, including the miking of players.
- Corporate advertising on uniforms in 2020 and 2021.
- Enhanced housing allowances for spring training and regular season.
- Mutual waiver of potential grievances under the March Agreement.
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It is being reported that the proposed new deal would have universal DH for 2020 and 2021. And, it would most likely continue with new CBA after that.
This is great. I liked pitchers batting for nostalgia, but once Jimmy Nelson ruined his career running the bases, I changed my mind.
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From an alleged memo from the PA to players today:
The union letter included other details in its summary of the meeting:- Spring training would begin no later than June 28 for position players.
- The season would consist of 60 games, beginning July 19 or 20 and ending Sept. 27.
- Expanded postseason in 2020 and 2021, with a minimum players’ pool of $25 million.
- 100 percent prorated salaries (60 games would amount to about 37 percent of a 162-game season and salary)
- Designated hitter in both leagues in 2020 and 2021.
- Opt-out rights for high-risk individuals, as defined by the CDC.
- MLB would direct $10 million for social justice initiatives.
- ‘Minimum’ player commitments for broadcast elements, including the miking of players.
- Corporate advertising on uniforms in 2020 and 2021.
- Enhanced housing allowances for spring training and regular season.
- Mutual waiver of potential grievances under the March Agreement.
Get it done and let's go.
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From an alleged memo from the PA to players today:
The union letter included other details in its summary of the meeting:- Spring training would begin no later than June 28 for position players.
- The season would consist of 60 games, beginning July 19 or 20 and ending Sept. 27.
- Expanded postseason in 2020 and 2021, with a minimum players’ pool of $25 million.
- 100 percent prorated salaries (60 games would amount to about 37 percent of a 162-game season and salary)
- Designated hitter in both leagues in 2020 and 2021.
- Opt-out rights for high-risk individuals, as defined by the CDC.
- MLB would direct $10 million for social justice initiatives.
- ‘Minimum’ player commitments for broadcast elements, including the miking of players.
- Corporate advertising on uniforms in 2020 and 2021.
- Enhanced housing allowances for spring training and regular season.
- Mutual waiver of potential grievances under the March Agreement.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/8e65753707213f46de814e6feb8d4290/tumblr_mmih24SiZO1rg0lgoo1_250.gifv)
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/4372db376ac7e64b3dc42ae90432d1d1/tumblr_mmih24SiZO1rg0lgoo4_500.gifv)
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I am strangely indifferent to the DH at this point. I grew up w/a National League ball preference. I pitched and played shortstop when I played so being able to a variety of things was part of it.
But I've enjoyed both leagues. I also follow college baseball pretty closely, which utilitizes the DH. I often enjoy one coach who inserts an off day starting pitcher as his lineup DH, waiting for his first turn at bat to decide whom else he'll hit there instead depending on what is going on in the game.
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I like the different rules for each league. It makes the league you're in mean something unique.
But if it goes all DH, I get it. Pitchers are expensive.
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I can conjure some false outrage at getting rid of the DH, I'm sure. I think the strategy is fun (not to mention the boost a team gets when a guy that shouldn't get a hit, does)
It'll make the Woodruff dinger off of Kershaw just a little more memorable
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I can conjure some false outrage at getting rid of the DH, I'm sure. I think the strategy is fun (not to mention the boost a team gets when a guy that shouldn't get a hit, does)
It'll make the Woodruff dinger off of Kershaw just a little more memorable
Thank home run is one of my favorite memories in brewers history. But I’ll be happy with DH.
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This isn't good as we try to get our sports leagues up and going ...
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3584656-covid-blows-keep-coming-phillies-close-training-facilities
The MLB's Philadelphia Phillies confirm that five players and three staff members at the club's Clearwater, FL facility have tested positive for COVID-19, with the first confirmed case coming this past Tuesday.
Twenty players (both major and minor leaguers) and twelve staff members are in the process of being tested.
The club declines to say how this news might affect plans for a 2020 season.
This report comes on top of Apple closing some stores in four states where COVID cases are back on the rise. Also, the WHO says the pandemic is accelerating after a record number of new cases yesterday.
Nothing's easy, man. This stuff is rough.
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I can conjure some false outrage at getting rid of the DH, I'm sure. I think the strategy is fun (not to mention the boost a team gets when a guy that shouldn't get a hit, does)
It'll make the Woodruff dinger off of Kershaw just a little more memorable
I welcome the DH to the National League. I understand why many don't want to see it.
But I think there is more strategy involved with the DH than with the pitcher hitting. And I like the fact that team's best pinch hitters will be available in the 9th inning. We will need to wait and see if that affects games more than in the past where many times you were stuck with a guy who wasn't much better than a pitcher when it came to hitting.
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This isn't good as we try to get our sports leagues up and going ...
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3584656-covid-blows-keep-coming-phillies-close-training-facilities
The MLB's Philadelphia Phillies confirm that five players and three staff members at the club's Clearwater, FL facility have tested positive for COVID-19, with the first confirmed case coming this past Tuesday.
Twenty players (both major and minor leaguers) and twelve staff members are in the process of being tested.
The club declines to say how this news might affect plans for a 2020 season.
This report comes on top of Apple closing some stores in four states where COVID cases are back on the rise. Also, the WHO says the pandemic is accelerating after a record number of new cases yesterday.
Nothing's easy, man. This stuff is rough.
Phillies and blue Jays have shut down their facilities today.
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Phillies and blue Jays have shut down their facilities today.
Phillies are in Clearwater. That's one of the places where beaches, bars and restaurants have been packed.
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Yesterday was not a promising one if you want sports in 2020
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Adios baseball and take all other pro sports with you. Ewe fookin' screwed da pooch won two many tymes, aina?
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Adios baseball and take all other pro sports with you. Ewe fookin' screwed da pooch won two many tymes, aina?
Their disputes don’t impact me much so I’ll watch regardless.
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Adios baseball and take all other pro sports with you. Ewe fookin' screwed da pooch won two many tymes, aina?
I understand your doc-speak. I just don't understand the point you are trying to make. Which pooches did they and all other pro sports screw to prevent them from playing this season?
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Its not this season, per se. Just the entire entitlement mentality of both arrogant sides
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Its not this season, per se. Just the entire entitlement mentality of both arrogant sides
I don't believe that either the NBA or NHL deserve a "pox on both of their heads" slam, and it's too soon for the NFL.
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I'd say it's unlikely none of these sports either start or complete their seasons
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I'd say it's unlikely none of these sports either start or complete their seasons
You might be right. But your earlier comment (or at least your explanation of it) seemed to suggest that it was the mentality of "both sides" that caused no basketball or hockey or football, too.
No biggie. I hate arguing about this kind of semantic silliness. I know what you mean now.
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So much for the players "tell us when and where" mantra.
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So much for the players "tell us when and where" mantra.
I think that stemmed from the clause in the March agreement where the Commissioner could unilaterally dictate the amount of games with 100% pay.
I believe at that point the thought was the owners weren’t going to negotiate in good faith, they might as well wait for them to exercise that clause. I don’t think it was a “we will be happy with anything” type of comment.
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I think that stemmed from the clause in the March agreement where the Commissioner could unilaterally dictate the amount of games with 100% pay.
I believe at that point the thought was the owners weren’t going to negotiate in good faith, they might as well wait for them to exercise that clause. I don’t think it was a “we will be happy with anything” type of comment.
I go back to my earlier comment: "Owners have determined that they will lose money this year. They also know players will demand 100% prorated salary. Thus owners will keep Season as short as possible - 48 games."
I still stand by my comment from a month or two ago that there will be no season, though. Manfred will dictate the 48 game season, but Covid will be too much to overcome as outbreaks hit camps.
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https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/16/max-scherzer-bryce-harper-where-and-when/
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https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jun/16/max-scherzer-bryce-harper-where-and-when/
::)
i was unaware that Scherzer and Harper spoke for the entire union.
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::)
i was unaware that Scherzer and Harper spoke for the entire union.
Scherzer is one of the most vocal union reps. And one of the most influential.
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Scherzer is one of the most vocal union reps. And one of the most influential.
Oh. So he doesn't speak for the union though.
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Stone cold crazy, hey?
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Oh. So he doesn't speak for the union though.
Can you use google on your own?
How about Tony Clark? Does he speak for the union?
https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2020/06/mlbpas-tony-clark-its-time-to-get-back-to-work-tell-us-where-and-when.html
It was being said by players all over the place. If you paid attention you would have know that. Instead you tried to be clever out of ignorance. Nice job.
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Nevermind. You're not worth it.
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(https://frinkiac.com/video/S11E11/my1a-BJIeuAqFOBbjQHEc5Qhv1U=.gif)
And I believe I quoted Tony Clark, the head of the MLBPA, not the owners. Does he speak for the union in your opinon?
Both sides are full of crap. That was my point, and has been, I'm not surprised that is lost on you.
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(https://frinkiac.com/video/S11E11/my1a-BJIeuAqFOBbjQHEc5Qhv1U=.gif)
I know they shouldn't be so easily swayed by propaganda. But...you be you...<pats buck on the head>
Now run off and play nicely.
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(https://frinkiac.com/video/S11E11/my1a-BJIeuAqFOBbjQHEc5Qhv1U=.gif)
And I believe I quoted Tony Clark, the head of the MLBPA, not the owners. Does he speak for the union in your opinon?
Both sides are full of crap. That was my point, and has been, I'm not surprised that is lost on you.
Sure. ::)
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Yeah, you're totally right. I'm totally in with the owners.
Everyone gets it. The owners are crapbags. No one has once said otherwise.
Not that it'll do anything, but here is a petition to remove Rob Manfred.
https://t.co/g1O5vNRvGT
If anything, it seems like you bought the players propaganda.
I'd say you're better than that, but you're not.
You were ignorant and wrong now you're throwing a tantrum.
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Yeah, you're totally right. I'm totally in with the owners.
If anything, it seems like you bought the players propaganda.
I'd say you're better than that, but you're not.
You were ignorant and wrong now you're throwing a tantrum.
Lol. I guess when you’re caught being dumb you’ll just insult instead.
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40 players so far tested positive.
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Lol. I guess when you%u2019re caught being dumb you%u2019ll just insult instead.
I know they shouldn't be so easily swayed by propaganda. But...you be you...<pats buck on the head>
Now run off and play nicely.
and
Nevermind. You're not worth it.
You don't see any hypocrisy?
You never answered, do you think Tony Clark speaks for the union? What do you think he meant when he said:
%u201CIt unfortunately appears that further dialogue with the league would be futile. It%u2019s time to get back to work. Tell us when and where.%u201D
You seem to think the players were not just grandstanding, seems pretty gullible of you. Especially in light of what has happened since then. And you're lashing out and patronizing seems hollow and desperate.
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I think circumstances around this entire equation have changed due to circumstances outside of the control of either the players and owners, and also largely due to the owners actions themselves.
Sorry you can't see that.
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Our governor in Florida was talking about baseball with fans in late June.
With fans.
Makes sense to me given what's transgressed in Florida.
This seems quaint.
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I think circumstances around this entire equation have changed due to circumstances outside of the control of either the players and owners, and also largely due to the owners actions themselves.
Sorry you can't see that.
Hmmm, not answering direct questions, defending a ridiculous position, and now, is that goal post shifting? Is that the Chico trifecta?
And anyways, nothing about their not accepting the deal MLB proposed has anything to do with Covid. If that's what you mean. This arrangement is still contingent on safety measures and was only a framework on the financial details
It comes down to both sides wanting more money. The players want to play more games and possibly wanting to be able to file a grievance. For the owners they want to play as few games as possible and more playoff games. They players didn't think the owners would go for full pro rated salaries, so they tried to make some BS moral point. The owners gave them what they wanted, or at least the demands to which they paid lip service. They got called on it and immediately back tracked.
Both sides are being greedy and trying to not only win this particular deal, but also to give themselves better footing for the next CBA.
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Hmmm, not answering direct questions, defending a ridiculous position, and now, is that goal post shifting? Is that the Chico trifecta?
And anyways, nothing about their not accepting the deal MLB proposed has anything to do with Covid. If that's what you mean. This arrangement is still contingent on safety measures and was only a framework on the financial details
It comes down to both sides wanting more money. The players want to play more games and possibly wanting to be able to file a grievance. For the owners they want to play as few games as possible and more playoff games. They players didn't think the owners would go for full pro rated salaries, so they tried to make some BS moral point. The owners gave them what they wanted, or at least the demands to which they paid lip service. They got called on it and immediately back tracked.
Both sides are being greedy and trying to not only win this particular deal, but also to give themselves better footing for the next CBA.
I haven't shifted the goalposts one bit. You can't see how the circumstances have changed. I can't make you see what you don't want to see.
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I haven't shifted the goalposts one bit. You can't see how the circumstances have changed. I can't make you see what you don't want to see.
Ok. Even though this framework is for financial and game details, and isn't meant to address the concerns regarding covid. In fact, they would probably need to come to an agreement on the details of the season before they could properly address protocols for Covid.
And the players are clamoring for more games. Hardly seems like covid is their primary concern here for this deal. They aren't saying pump the brakes until we get this figured out. They are saying we want more games.
Not sure how the current covid spikes fit into that argument.
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63 Games
12 each intra-Division
15 against Division in opposite league
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63 Games
12 each intra-Division
15 against Division in opposite league
#Donedeal?
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Good to see that Sultan and Chuckler have continued their argument into another day.
Fascinating stuff, children. :-\
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Good to see that Sultan and Chuckler have continued their argument into another day.
Fascinating stuff, children. :-\
You're right. Sorry. I'm done.
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You're right. Sorry. I'm done.
No prob. Many of us here, myself included, have gone down the argument rabbit hole.
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Does this season count in the record books?
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Part of me is very excited to see the randomness of a 60 game season. If a team (say the Marlins) gets on a run early and goes 7-3 in their first ten games, they are in the hunt. Going 60 games, a team like the Cubs should go to a 4 man rotation. Over 60 games, a rotation of Darvish, Lester, Hendricks, Quintana could handle that workload. Why bother giving Chatwood potentially 12 starts?
I think the AL Central/NL Central teams near the top have an advantage towards making the playoffs. If you look at Pecota projections, three of the projected worse six teams this upcoming season are Central based teams (Tigers/Royals/Pirates). Let's say the Brewers schedule starts them off with a home stand against the Tigers, followed by the Royals, and then they were to go to Pittsburgh. If their schedule worked out that way, that's 9 games out of the shoot that they would be favorites in.
It'll be different for sure, hopefully Covid doesn't shut things down, but part of me is excited for sheer madness of this. It's Baseball 180, every game really matters, and we're going to experiment and see things we've never seen before.
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If you thought Counsell was a mad scientist before...
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If you thought Counsell was a mad scientist before...
I love the idea of Braun DH-ing and Knebel and Hader in the pen for 60 games.
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Part of me is very excited to see the randomness of a 60 game season. If a team (say the Marlins) gets on a run early and goes 7-3 in their first ten games, they are in the hunt. Going 60 games, a team like the Cubs should go to a 4 man rotation. Over 60 games, a rotation of Darvish, Lester, Hendricks, Quintana could handle that workload. Why bother giving Chatwood potentially 12 starts?
I think the AL Central/NL Central teams near the top have an advantage towards making the playoffs. If you look at Pecota projections, three of the projected worse six teams this upcoming season are Central based teams (Tigers/Royals/Pirates). Let's say the Brewers schedule starts them off with a home stand against the Tigers, followed by the Royals, and then they were to go to Pittsburgh. If their schedule worked out that way, that's 9 games out of the shoot that they would be favorites in.
It'll be different for sure, hopefully Covid doesn't shut things down, but part of me is excited for sheer madness of this. It's Baseball 180, every game really matters, and we're going to experiment and see things we've never seen before.
Isn't it 60 games in 61 days? If it is, I would be surprised if any team really considered a 4 man rotation.
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Isn't it 60 games in 61 days? If it is, I would be surprised if any team really considered a 4 man rotation.
What are you losing with it though? Expanded rosters, your bullpen horses are going to go more innings and pitch more often than ever before. The Cubs to me are the perfect team to try it, they are a veteran team, their staff is all seasoned vets. Their window is coming up against contract commitments, you might as well go for it. If you try it for the first 16 games, and it's not working, or you're out of it, then scrap it.
I think you're going to see way more experiments this year than ever before.
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What are you losing with it though? Expanded rosters, your bullpen horses are going to go more innings and pitch more often than ever before. The Cubs to me are the perfect team to try it, they are a veteran team, their staff is all seasoned vets. Their window is coming up against contract commitments, you might as well go for it. If you try it for the first 16 games, and it's not working, or you're out of it, then scrap it.
I think you're going to see way more experiments this year than ever before.
I think you're right about the experimentation, but I'm not sure four-man rotations will be common or wise.
I think it's less a matter of innings pitched than it is less rest between starts. Guys who are used to four and five days off between starts will be asked to do it on three. I'm theorizing that 90-100 pitches followed by 4-5 days off is easier on an arm than 70-80 pitches then 3 days off. Not only are you missing a lot of important recovery time, you're also doing away with bullpen sessions between starts, which are important for some pitchers.
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Baseball Hall of Fame reopens on Friday.
Maybe they'll have a new exhibit on how the owners and players managed to screw up these negotiations.
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Baseball Hall of Fame reopens on Friday.
Maybe they'll have a new exhibit on how the owners and players managed to screw up these negotiations.
They will probably need to leave room for the upcoming CBA negotiations.
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What are you losing with it though? Expanded rosters, your bullpen horses are going to go more innings and pitch more often than ever before. The Cubs to me are the perfect team to try it, they are a veteran team, their staff is all seasoned vets. Their window is coming up against contract commitments, you might as well go for it. If you try it for the first 16 games, and it's not working, or you're out of it, then scrap it.
I think you're going to see way more experiments this year than ever before.
I agree with Pakuni's thoughts on this. These guys aren't conditioned to go on 3 days rest. And looking at the Cubs guys:
Lester only has 2 career starts on 3 days.
Quintana has 1 career start on 3 days rest.
Darvish has never pitched on 3 days rest.
Hendricks has never pitched on 3 days rest.
Asking those guys to do that for 2 straight months seems like a recipe for disaster. Even though at least 3 of them are clearly workhorses.
But I do think you're right that there will be a lot of experimentation. I'd just be surprised if 4 man rotations were part of it.
I'm interested to see what the Sox do, as they have 7 starters that will likely be ready at the start of the season. I wonder if they will use 5 starters, (Giolito, Keuchel,Gonzalez, Cease, Lopez) and use the other 2 guys (Kopech and Rodon) as like super relievers, or maybe just use them as tandems with Cease and Lopez? I'm just guessing they will protect Kopech and Rodon a bit as they are coming off injuries. But with the workloads already having an innings limit, maybe not?
Personally, I would love to see Rodon close for the Sox. And if history is any guide, as soon as transactions are allowed on Friday, the Sox will probably trade Gio Gonzalez.
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They will probably need to leave room for the upcoming CBA negotiations.
Construction will be an essential service during the 2nd wave, so they'll be able to finish the new wing
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I agree with Pakuni's thoughts on this. These guys aren't conditioned to go on 3 days rest. And looking at the Cubs guys:
Lester only has 2 career starts on 3 days.
Quintana has 1 career start on 3 days rest.
Darvish has never pitched on 3 days rest.
Hendricks has never pitched on 3 days rest.
Asking those guys to do that for 2 straight months seems like a recipe for disaster. Even though at least 3 of them are clearly workhorses.
But I do think you're right that there will be a lot of experimentation. I'd just be surprised if 4 man rotations were part of it.
I'm interested to see what the Sox do, as they have 7 starters that will likely be ready at the start of the season. I wonder if they will use 5 starters, (Giolito, Keuchel,Gonzalez, Cease, Lopez) and use the other 2 guys (Kopech and Rodon) as like super relievers, or maybe just use them as tandems with Cease and Lopez? I'm just guessing they will protect Kopech and Rodon a bit as they are coming off injuries. But with the workloads already having an innings limit, maybe not?
Personally, I would love to see Rodon close for the Sox. And if history is any guide, as soon as transactions are allowed on Friday, the Sox will probably trade Gio Gonzalez.
I'm a Sox fan, so some bias here, but I think they will be fascinating to watch. Is it worth having either Rodon or Kopech on the roster? I legit don't know, one could argue keep those guys off the mound for a 60 game season, or to your point, it's only 60 games, you have expanded rosters, you can break glass in case of emergency on either guy.
I think the first twenty games are so important. That's what I was advocating on the 4 man rotation, you can at least see where you are at after three weeks, and then adjust from there.
Be real interesting to see what kind of shape some of these guys are in too. I'd expect a lot of pulled hamstrings in the first couple weeks.
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I'm a Sox fan, so some bias here, but I think they will be fascinating to watch. Is it worth having either Rodon or Kopech on the roster? I legit don't know, one could argue keep those guys off the mound for a 60 game season, or to your point, it's only 60 games, you have expanded rosters, you can break glass in case of emergency on either guy.
I think the first twenty games are so important. That's what I was advocating on the 4 man rotation, you can at least see where you are at after three weeks, and then adjust from there.
Be real interesting to see what kind of shape some of these guys are in too. I'd expect a lot of pulled hamstrings in the first couple weeks.
I can't think of any reason not to have Rodon on the roster, what am I missing?
With Kopech, I get it with service time stuff, but also with no minor league season, I'd guess they'll just have him on the roster.
And as to the second point, yeah, we will know who spent quarantine eating chips and playing PS4.
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Your baseball owners:
https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2020-06-26/roster-mlb-billionaire-team-owners-who-rule-baseball
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Sox have signed Jarred Kelley (and previously Crochet).
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No idea how Tanaka is alive.
https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/status/1279509076007927810?s=21
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MLB already failing to live up to the agreement.
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MLB already failing to live up to the agreement.
Based on testing? Manfred already admitted to the press he never had any intention of going above 60 games. That may bite him.
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Based on testing? Manfred already admitted to the press he never had any intention of going above 60 games. That may bite him.
On testing? MLB has violated agreement on how often tests will be given.
On 60 games? Even a dummy like me knew (and stated on Scoop) that MLB was never going to agree to more games. I predicted 48, but 60 is in the same ballpark. MLB made all their bogus offers to the union just to stall the process as long as they needed so they didn't have to play more than 60.
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On testing? MLB has violated agreement on how often tests will be given.
On 60 games? Even a dummy like me knew (and stated on Scoop) that MLB was never going to agree to more games. I predicted 48, but 60 is in the same ballpark. MLB made all their bogus offers to the union just to stall the process as long as they needed so they didn't have to play more than 60.
Got it. Definitely not disagreeing with you. Just wondering if MLB did something dumb on top of those issues.
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Dave Dombrowski, Tony LaRussa, Dave Stewart have joined Music City LLC in the efforts to bring an MLB team to Nashville. Here is the updated group:
https://www.mlbmusiccity.com/leadership-roster/
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Got it. Definitely not disagreeing with you. Just wondering if MLB did something dumb on top of those issues.
I didn’t think you were arguing -I just wanted to clarify what I said.
Listened to a Kris Bryant interview where he was upset with the testing. MLB said it would be every day. He said it’s been more like 10 days.
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Are there different types of tests now? From what I've heard, the covid tests suck. All I've heard is they stick a swab so far up your nose it feels like they're sticking it straight into your brain. I wouldn't be thrilled about having that done to me every day. Is there a different version of the test these athletes are getting tested with?
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Are there different types of tests now? From what I've heard, the covid tests suck. All I've heard is they stick a swab so far up your nose it feels like they're sticking it straight into your brain. I wouldn't be thrilled about having that done to me every day. Is there a different version of the test these athletes are getting tested with?
Golfers all get the nose test, at least once a week.
They all say it’s not that bad.
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Are there different types of tests now? From what I've heard, the covid tests suck. All I've heard is they stick a swab so far up your nose it feels like they're sticking it straight into your brain. I wouldn't be thrilled about having that done to me every day. Is there a different version of the test these athletes are getting tested with?
My GF just had a test done on Friday. There is a second type of test that doesn’t insert nearly as far. It’s a bit ticklish and slightly uncomfortable, but it doesn’t make you gag. I’m sure these guys experience worse on a regular basis.
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Imagine that, Joe West is a coronavirus truther.
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Golfers all get the nose test, at least once a week.
They all say it’s not that bad.
I've had the test 4 times. It's really not bad. It's uncomfortable but not painful.
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I see a story that Cleveland Indians are evaluating a name change.
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I see a story that Cleveland Indians are evaluating a name change.
Hearing Lake Erie Indians and Mistake on the Lake Indians are the current favorites.
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Hearing Lake Erie Indians and Mistake on the Lake Indians are the current favorites.
Just move em to Nashville.
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Imagine that, Joe West is a coronavirus truther.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1a/33/c6/1a33c6486270a2f6431b53677647f6f8.jpg)
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Kopech to sit out 2020.
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Kopech to sit out 2020.
The White Sox pitching coach has said that he is “worried” about Michael Kopech, who has suffered from anxiety and depression in the past.
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The White Sox pitching coach has said that he is “worried” about Michael Kopech, who has suffered from anxiety and depression in the past.
I’m sure telling the Sun Times you’re worried will ease Michael’s anxiety.
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The White Sox pitching coach has said that he is “worried” about Michael Kopech, who has suffered from anxiety and depression in the past.
FWIW, James Fegan of The Athletic reported that multiple sources from both Kopech's camp and the White Sox told him mental health was not a factor in Kopech's decision.
Sources close to Kopech indicate he was driven by a litany of concerns, not limited to a short ramp-up to action, an uncertain role, uncertainty over the fate of the 2020 season, caution in determining how and when to best return to action from Tommy John surgery, and despite not being medically deemed high-risk himself, concern over how playing amid the pandemic could threaten the health of those close to him.
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FWIW, James Fegan of The Athletic reported that multiple sources from both Kopech's camp and the White Sox told him mental health was not a factor in Kopech's decision.
Sources close to Kopech indicate he was driven by a litany of concerns, not limited to a short ramp-up to action, an uncertain role, uncertainty over the fate of the 2020 season, caution in determining how and when to best return to action from Tommy John surgery, and despite not being medically deemed high-risk himself, concern over how playing amid the pandemic could threaten the health of those close to him.
Translation: COVID is giving me the opportunity to not make a weird, abnormal return from a major career affecting surgery, so I’m gonna express concern and sit it out so I can be ready for a proper season, not this abbreviated stuff.
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Translation: COVID is giving me the opportunity to not make a weird, abnormal return from a major career affecting surgery, so I’m gonna express concern and sit it out so I can be ready for a proper season, not this abbreviated stuff.
My fingers are crossed that your “translation” is accurate. I fear there’s more to it.
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Luis Robert is +10000 to lead MLB in HR’s this season.
Just sayin.
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Sox offense is going to be a major problem for the rest of baseball.
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Sox offense is going to be a major problem for the rest of baseball.
Indeed
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Sox offense is going to be a major problem for the rest of baseball.
Can't wait. These guys are going to be fun. I'm not sure how the lineup will play out, but they could legitimately have Eloy and Robert hitting like 6 and 7. Which is insane.
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Can't wait. These guys are going to be fun. I'm not sure how the lineup will play out, but they could legitimately have Eloy and Robert hitting like 6 and 7. Which is insane.
I love both those guys and think both will soon be perennial all-stars.
Not sure what to expect this year though. Robert is a rookie, so we don’t know what to expect short term. Eloy is going into his 2nd year. Pitcher will make adjustments and it often takes a while for a young guy to adjust to being pitched differently. If he is able to adjust, he could be a huge star. Or it could take a little longer.
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T-Mobile/Sprint released a deal today for free season of MLB.TV, and a free year of The Athletic, if anyone has either carrier. I believe you get a week or two to redeem the deal.
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I honestly didn't know how I was going to feel about this season, but I'm really excited. That being said, this season could end in a heartbeat at any moment. I like the shortened season in what it means to every game meaning way more. I think managers will have to be much more creative (we'll see how that plays out). I'm a fan of the universal DH this year, and I just genuinely still love baseball. The Sox potentially being good colors those glasses a lot I'm sure though, if they were really any of the last few years versions, maybe my enthusiasm would be way less.
I have no idea who's winning the NL Central, I think really any team outside Pittsburgh can make a run. That's fun to me though, 4 teams with a shot, in a shortened season, I'm for it. The AL Central still feels like the Twins to lose. If the Dodgers, Yankees, or Astros get off to slow starts, do those teams start to feel a bit uneasy?
I'm overly excited, I actually was bummed tonight that neither the Cubs or Sox were playing a practice game, as I found myself missing baseball tonight after a couple days in a row of watching.
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Major-league tip of the cap to Gabe Kapler. I'll be rooting for him and the
Phillies Giants this season. (D'oh!)
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Major-league tip of the cap to Gabe Kapler. I'll be rooting for him and the Phillies this season.
I think Gabe would prefer you root for the Giants.
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I think Gabe would prefer you root for the Giants.
D'oh!
Thanks for being a good editor!
Point still stands, of course (even though Gabe respectfully kneels).
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I love both those guys and think both will soon be perennial all-stars.
Not sure what to expect this year though. Robert is a rookie, so we don’t know what to expect short term. Eloy is going into his 2nd year. Pitcher will make adjustments and it often takes a while for a young guy to adjust to being pitched differently. If he is able to adjust, he could be a huge star. Or it could take a little longer.
Which is why it is nice they are down in the lineup. I think both will still be very dangerous this year. Eloy took half the season to figure it out last year, then increased his OPS by about 100 points. Robert may be the same, but he doesn't have the luxury of a full season, and Eloy may even fall back a bit, but that is why it is so great to have among others, Abreu, Encarnacion and Grandal hitting in the middle of the lineup to take pressure off Eloy and Robert.
And for the record, I think Robert will hit about 100 homeruns, even in this shortened season. ;D
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Rumor has it that Betts is on the brink of a massive 10-year extension with LAD. I'm really interested to see the terms of this one. Betts has stood firm in demanding to join the $300MM club, so I would be shocked if its for any less. But LAD is a smart club, and despite their payroll flexibility, I imagine they've baked in some covid-related risk on the front end of the deal to go with typical player decline on the back end. Covid uncertainty, CBA uncertainty, interesting time to get a deal done.
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Betts would become the 6th MLB player with a $300 million contract, along with Trout, Cole, Harper, Stanton, Machado.
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13 years, $380 million per Jeff Passan for Betts and Dodgers.
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National TV Schedule for this weekend
Thu, Jul 23 6:08 pm New York Yankees Washington Nationals ESPN
Thu, Jul 23 9:08 pm San Francisco Giants Los Angeles Dodgers ESPN
Fri, Jul 24 3:10 pm Atlanta Braves New York Mets ESPN
Fri, Jul 24 5:10 pm Detroit Tigers Cincinnati Reds MLBN
Fri, Jul 24 6:10 pm Milwaukee Brewers Chicago Cubs ESPN
Fri, Jul 24 9:10 pm Los Angeles Angels Oakland Athletics ESPN
Sat, Jul 25 12:05 pm Milwaukee Brewers Chicago Cubs FOX
Sat, Jul 25 1:15 pm Pittsburgh Pirates St. Louis Cardinals MLBN
Sat, Jul 25 3:10 pm San Francisco Giants Los Angeles Dodgers FOX
Sat, Jul 25 6:15 pm New York Yankees Washington Nationals FOX
Sat, Jul 25 8:10 pm Arizona Diamondbacks San Diego Padres FS1
Sun, Jul 26 12:05 pm New York Yankees Washington Nationals TBS
Sun, Jul 26 3:10 pm Los Angeles Angels Oakland Athletics MLBN
Sun, Jul 26 6:08 pm Atlanta Braves New York Mets ESPN
Sun, Jul 26 9:08 pm San Francisco Giants Los Angeles Dodgers ESPN
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13 years, $380 million per Jeff Passan for Betts and Dodgers.
[/quote
Updated contract details. The extension is 12 years $365 million.
https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1286042491171504130?s=19
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Are any of you White Sox fans “at” Sox park in the stands?
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Are any of you White Sox fans “at” Sox park in the stands?
No, I think the cutouts are kinda lame.
Sidenote, I kinda like this Brewers team. The look/feel like a good ball club. I know they had some offseason departures, but I think they’ll still be very solid. I think the NL Central is going to be a real battle.
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No, I think the cutouts are kinda lame.
Sidenote, I kinda like this Brewers team. The look/feel like a good ball club. I know they had some offseason departures, but I think they’ll still be very solid. I think the NL Central is going to be a real battle.
When the Sox announced this, I figured most people was use it as a joke - like a wife who is a Sox fan buying a Cutout of her Cub fan husband.
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When the Sox announced this, I figured most people was use it as a joke - like a wife who is a Sox fan buying a Cutout of her Cub fan husband.
I saw some of the KBO teams were doing it, so I wasn't surprised when it was announced for the Sox. I think its kind of fun. Probably won't do it. But I think it is a fun idea.
My favorite thing I saw in the KBO was a team put up cutouts of a bunch of minor league mascots.
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Good stuff here!
https://twitter.com/MLBNetwork/status/1286288454276521984
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No, I think the cutouts are kinda lame.
Sidenote, I kinda like this Brewers team. The look/feel like a good ball club. I know they had some offseason departures, but I think they’ll still be very solid. I think the NL Central is going to be a real battle.
Yeah, complete wild card. I think any not Pittsburgh based team has a legit shot at winning it, and could understand putting any team in any place in a prediction.
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So, predictions on where the Blue Jays end up playing their home games..... I will bet on Buffalo.
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So, predictions on where the Blue Jays end up playing their home games..... I will bet on Buffalo.
IMO they will be on the road all year. Players don't want to be in a AAA park.
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No fans, unique season. If not Buffalo, then Detroit or Cleveland.
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So, predictions on where the Blue Jays end up playing their home games..... I will bet on Buffalo.
Bud Selig, enter stage right.
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No fans, unique season. If not Buffalo, then Detroit or Cleveland.
Last I saw they were still talking to Baltimore. And were also considering their spring training site in Florida, though I think that was ruled out due to the situation there.
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Last I saw they were still talking to Baltimore. And were also considering their spring training site in Florida, though I think that was ruled out due to the situation there.
The O's have officially given the Jay's permission. Birds of a feather? Eh? EH? See what I did there???????
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I think the issue is that state of Maryland may not allow it.
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13 years, $380 million per Jeff Passan for Betts and Dodgers.
Damn! That's almost triple what I made during my best 13-year stretch of earnings!
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Big ole wet blanket....
Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
19m
Washington Nationals star Juan Soto has tested positive for COVID-19 and will miss tonight's season opener against the New York Yankees, sources tell ESPN.
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Major League Baseball and the Players Association are having last-minute discussions about expanding the playoffs to 16 teams for the 2020 season, Jon Heyman reports. Included in those discussions is the idea that division winners will be able to choose their opponents during a televised selection show.
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As a Sox fan, I'd be now disappointed if they didn't make the playoffs this year. Second place team from each division, plus the next two teams based on record...it'd be disappointing. It's probably not realistic, because of the schedule and everyone playing each other, but outside chance a single division could get four playoff teams (I'm looking at you NL Central).
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https://twitter.com/DavidPurdum/status/1286012768324325386?s=19
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Major League Baseball and the Players Association are having last-minute discussions about expanding the playoffs to 16 teams for the 2020 season, Jon Heyman reports. Included in those discussions is the idea that division winners will be able to choose their opponents during a televised selection show.
These negotiations were so dumb. Owners: "Oh yes, I guess we would like that free revenue"
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Uh-oh ...
Red Sox unveil humongous BLM billboard near Fenway, prominently featuring the team logo.
Some Scoopers won’t like our national pastime endorsing Marxism.
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Major Leaguers are terrorists now?
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NBA, MLB. Pretty soon there will be nothing left for some people to watch.
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I love the cardboard cutout of Mary Hart at Dodger Stadium. In her usually spot. I didn't see Larry King.
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Rough opening day.
Soto gets COVID; Yankees-Nationals in long rain delay; Keyshaw scratched and has to go on DL.
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Uh-oh ...
Red Sox unveil humongous BLM billboard near Fenway, prominently featuring the team logo.
Some Scoopers won’t like our national pastime endorsing Marxism.
Mike
Free country.
Some Scoopers will say that “our national pastime is endorsing racism” over a billboard? As likely as some Scoopers will say that players not kneeling for the National Anthem is endorsing racism. C’mon.
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Mike
Free country.
Some Scoopers will say that “our national pastime is endorsing racism” over a billboard? As likely as some Scoopers will say that players not kneeling for the National Anthem is endorsing racism. C’mon.
Lenny
Has any Scooper -- or any American that you know of -- said players not kneeling for the anthem is endorsing racism?
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Lenny
Has any Scooper -- or any American that you know of -- said players not kneeling for the anthem is endorsing racism?
For me, kneeling or standing is a personal decision. Neither makes one right or wrong, good or bad. But you’ve announced your fealty for the Giants BECAUSE their manager is kneeling. What does that say about those who choose not to kneel? In that vein, several Scoopers have suggested that having problems with BLM’s manifesto or their calling for dead cops is the equivalent of denying that “black lives matter”. IOW, racists.
You know that I like and respect you, Mike. But you love to troll. Sometimes (not to my credit) I take the bait.
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Uh-oh ...
Red Sox unveil humongous BLM billboard near Fenway, prominently featuring the team logo.
Some Scoopers won’t like our national pastime endorsing Marxism.
Tried to educate y'all before, but that's a hard gig. BLM, Inc. is a racist, Marxist, anti-semitic, hate organization whose mission is to overturn and destroy America. BLM is the rallying cry for those who acknowledge and desire to change social injustice. The problem is BLM, Inc. is riding the coattails of BLM. All Americans, regardless of politics, race, and religion should aggressively oppose and resist BLM, Inc.
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Tried to educate y'all before, but that's a hard gig. BLM, Inc. is a racist, Marxist, anti-semitic, hate organization whose mission is to overturn and destroy America. BLM is the rallying cry for those who acknowledge and desire to change social injustice. The problem is BLM, Inc. is riding the coattails of BLM. All Americans, regardless of politics, race, and religion should aggressively oppose and resist BLM, Inc.
That's what a lot of people have been saying, but yeah... This.
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https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29523732/indians-meet-native-americans-potential-new-name
Washington Redskins going to change any day now. Cleveland Indians to follow suit soon after?
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For me, kneeling or standing is a personal decision. Neither makes one right or wrong, good or bad. But you’ve announced your fealty for the Giants BECAUSE their manager is kneeling. What does that say about those who choose not to kneel? In that vein, several Scoopers have suggested that having problems with BLM’s manifesto or their calling for dead cops is the equivalent of denying that “black lives matter”. IOW, racists.
You know that I like and respect you, Mike. But you love to troll. Sometimes (not to my credit) I take the bait.
I do occasionally troll. I shouldn't. I sometimes use hyperbole, as most Scoopers (including you) also sometimes do. Most of the time, I simply try to provide information, and often include my opinion when doing so, clearly separating the fact from the opinion. I should stick to that more, yes.
I believe Kapler took a strong stand (an odd word to use, I admit, because he wasn't standing) and I admire that. I don't have a favorite baseball team, so I choose to root for different teams for different reasons each season. I have pulled for the Brewers that last couple of years. Kapler's stand makes me want to have a heightened interest in his team.
And I have no concerns that MLB will turn into a Marxist organization, despite Doc's attempts to "educate y'all." I am much more concerned about the leader of our federal government using unidentified militia to attack peaceful protesters as a campaign stunt than I am about Marxism taking over American pro and college sports.
Black Lives Matter! We Are Marquette!
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https://youtu.be/fWKA9Zi5-_Y
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https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29523732/indians-meet-native-americans-potential-new-name
Washington Redskins going to change any day now. Cleveland Indians to follow suit soon after?
I suggest Cleveland Baseball Team.
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MLB local preseason ratings last weekend vs pre-pandemic games:
Pirates +475%
Cubs +320%
Phillies +208%
Yankees +137%
Mets +101%
The pandemic-delayed Major League Baseball opener was the sport’s most-watched regular-season game on any network in nine years.
The New York Yankees’ rain-shortened 4-1 win at the Washington Nationals on Thursday night averaged 4 million viewers on ESPN. 8.4 rating in the Washington D.C. market, which is the highest-rated regular season MLB game ever on ESPN in the market. It also generated a 7.8 rating in the New York market, making it the highest-rated regular season MLB game on ESPN in the market since 2015.
San Francisco Giants vs. the Los Angeles Dodgers – generated an average audience of 2,764,000 viewers.
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Lack of fans really not noticeable for baseball.
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Lack of fans really not noticeable for baseball.
I actually think it’s much more noticeable than it was for the TBT. Maybe real NBA games will be different though. But Cubs Brewers was hard for me to get into and that’s never the case. (Maybe because the Brewers sucked and I’m enjoying life in Eagle River.)
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I actually think it’s much more noticeable than it was for the TBT. Maybe real NBA games will be different though. But Cubs Brewers was hard for me to get into and that’s never the case. (Maybe because the Brewers sucked and I’m enjoying life in Eagle River.)
Say hi to your folks
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Say hi to your folks
You got it. They’ll be up tomorrow and Sunday.
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Kyle Hendricks might be the most underrated pitcher in baseball.
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Kyle Hendricks might be the most underrated pitcher in baseball history.
FIFY.
Javy the best tagger and most exciting player ever.
(Whoever it was) tagging up in the WS the best play in the history of baseball.
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https://twitter.com/Brewers/status/1286808693338705920?s=20
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FIFY.
Javy the best tagger and most exciting player ever.
(Whoever it was) tagging up in the WS the best play in the history of baseball.
In these troubled and stressful times it’s comforting to know you’re still a douche with a little brother complex.
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I actually think it’s much more noticeable than it was for the TBT. Maybe real NBA games will be different though. But Cubs Brewers was hard for me to get into and that’s never the case. (Maybe because the Brewers sucked and I’m enjoying life in Eagle River.)
#privileged
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Do all the stats go into the record books or is this season considered an aberration?
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MLB local preseason ratings last weekend vs pre-pandemic games:
Pirates +475%
Cubs +320%
Phillies +208%
Yankees +137%
Mets +101%
The pandemic-delayed Major League Baseball opener was the sport’s most-watched regular-season game on any network in nine years.
The New York Yankees’ rain-shortened 4-1 win at the Washington Nationals on Thursday night averaged 4 million viewers on ESPN. 8.4 rating in the Washington D.C. market, which is the highest-rated regular season MLB game ever on ESPN in the market. It also generated a 7.8 rating in the New York market, making it the highest-rated regular season MLB game on ESPN in the market since 2015.
San Francisco Giants vs. the Los Angeles Dodgers – generated an average audience of 2,764,000 viewers.
What else would you expect with nothing else on unless you watch international soccer games which I do not. Normal season opening games for baseball are during the start of the NBA and NHL playoffs.
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Marlins game cancelled in Baltimore tonight. Multiple personnel tested positive for Covid. Not good
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14 tested positive. Quarantining.
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So is this where they bring up the B team that was practicing elsewhere?
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Oh and good luck to college sports this year. The NFL can afford to bubble their teams, but colleges cannot.
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Michigan State's entire football team is in quarantine right now.
Yes, sometimes the jokes really do write themselves. If this was something to joke about.
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Sew if da season ended today, due da Brewers make da playoffs, hey?
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So you certainly can't let the Yankees play at the Phillies tonight either, right?
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So you certainly can't let the Yankees play at the Phillies tonight either, right?
I for one think Trump is a real coward for not throwing out the first pitch and shaking every one of the Phillies' hands.
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Hope nobody got too attached to this MLB season.
Effen sucks.
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Sew if da season ended today, due da Brewers make da playoffs, hey?
The last-place-in-all-of-MLB Brewers?
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So you certainly can't let the Yankees play at the Phillies tonight either, right?
They aren't. Already cancelled.
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I can’t believe they were allowed to play after having positive tests. That’s a huge failure by MLB leaving that decision up to players.
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Sucks. Push the season two weeks. In that time evaluate what went wrong.
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Sucks. Push the season two weeks. In that time evaluate what went wrong.
Its looking like bubbles are the only way to make this work.
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Since it's public now, I feel like I can comment on Kopech. I had heard last month there was some bad stuff going on in his personal life, specifically his marriage. I didn't want to comment on it, didn't feel it was right. As some of you know, my family has gotten to know Michael, and Michael asked us last year to partner with him on him growing out his hair for charity (Ronald McDonald House), and then my son cut his hair at Ronald McDonald House just before SoxFest this past January.
I don't have his number, or keep in contact with him directly, but through the Sox I'll every now and then either get or send a message his way. When I heard he was opting out, I reached out to my Sox contact and just said "hey, hope everything is ok with Michael, sending good thoughts his way". Reply I got back was "Not injury related, personal issues, can't say much more". I didn't know any more than that, and wasn't going to ask.
Michael is a really good dude. He's battled inner demons, and I can't imagine what he's going through now. I don't think that baby is his, and from the moment his ex-wife announced it, I immediately noticed there was no mention of Michael, he wasn't in any pictures, and it didn't seem good.
I hope he one day pitches for the Sox again, but more than anything, I hope he can get the support system in place to just be mentally healthy. That's the most important thing for him, and all of us.
Sorry if this is a lame post, and not trying to play the "I know him!" card, just sucks seeing a guy I consider to be a decent young man, who I respect for helping to try to fight childhood cancer, have to battle more inner demons.
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Not lame at all Dish. You’ve been very vocal and forthright about your relationship with him. You’re the first person I thought of after seeing the news.
By all accounts, including yours, he’s a good dude and fairly grounded. In the least condescending way possible, I hope his next romantic endeavors are away from the celebrity sphere. Between the Bierman’s wannabe-Kardashian vortex and now a popular actress, it can be a brutal space, especially for a young dude from nowhere Texas.
I have a friend who is a director in LA. One of his good friends is a B/C list actor you’d recognize. He does VERY well with the ladies and handles himself and his fame well. He dated a B list actress recently and it was his first “celeb” relationship. My buddy said it was a disaster that flamed our cause he wasn’t at all prepared for it and it was a level of complex and challenging he wasn’t aware it would be.
Anyways, hope he gets it sorted out and gets his mind right. He’s still unbelievably young for a top tier MLB pitcher
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Nads, ewe kan put NBA, NFL, NHL, and all of kollege sportz inta dat statement two, hey?
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Not lame at all Dish. You’ve been very vocal and forthright about your relationship with him. You’re the first person I thought of after seeing the news.
By all accounts, including yours, he’s a good dude and fairly grounded. In the least condescending way possible, I hope his next romantic endeavors are away from the celebrity sphere. Between the Bierman’s wannabe-Kardashian vortex and now a popular actress, it can be a brutal space, especially for a young dude from nowhere Texas.
I have a friend who is a director in LA. One of his good friends is a B/C list actor you’d recognize. He does VERY well with the ladies and handles himself and his fame well. He dated a B list actress recently and it was his first “celeb” relationship. My buddy said it was a disaster that flamed our cause he wasn’t at all prepared for it and it was a level of complex and challenging he wasn’t aware it would be.
Anyways, hope he gets it sorted out and gets his mind right. He’s still unbelievably young for a top tier MLB pitcher
This is good perspective, and totally agree. I texted a friend and said I think the reason Kopech has dated celebs is because (my personal opinion) is he’s not comfortable with fame. I know that might not make sense, but I think he sought out those relationships as a crutch to help him through it (I could be way off).
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Not lame at all Dish. You’ve been very vocal and forthright about your relationship with him. You’re the first person I thought of after seeing the news.
By all accounts, including yours, he’s a good dude and fairly grounded. In the least condescending way possible, I hope his next romantic endeavors are away from the celebrity sphere. Between the Bierman’s wannabe-Kardashian vortex and now a popular actress, it can be a brutal space, especially for a young dude from nowhere Texas.
I have a friend who is a director in LA. One of his good friends is a B/C list actor you’d recognize. He does VERY well with the ladies and handles himself and his fame well. He dated a B list actress recently and it was his first “celeb” relationship. My buddy said it was a disaster that flamed our cause he wasn’t at all prepared for it and it was a level of complex and challenging he wasn’t aware it would be.
Anyways, hope he gets it sorted out and gets his mind right. He’s still unbelievably young for a top tier MLB pitcher
Ditto what Wags says.
Thanks for sharing what you could, Dish.
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Nads, ewe kan put NBA, NFL, NHL, and all of kollege sportz inta dat statement two, hey?
You might be right, but I think the NBA and NHL have a shot at having their seasons because their dynamic is so much different from the rest.
Hard for me to imagine NFL or college football pulling it off, especially college. I'd put hoops in that category, too, but there are still a few months to go before a decision has to be made there.
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The Cubs just may need to eat Kimbrel’s contract (they won’t). Something is obviously wrong with him. I’m not making fun of him, but something is not right either physically or mentally.
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Nice comeback for the crew last night. Glad to have the punching bag pirates back. Never forget the win streak the brewers had against them a handful of years back.
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Baseball is aptly named the national pastime. It's past its time of relevancy. Most overpaid "athletes" on the planet. Boring. Game needs a "pitch clock," (like 10 seconds from the time pitcher gets the ball back) and to be shortened to 7 innings. Sitting through a 3-4 hour game is like watching paint dry.
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The Cubs just may need to eat Kimbrel’s contract (they won’t). Something is obviously wrong with him. I’m not making fun of him, but something is not right either physically or mentally.
NL Central might create a go fund me to keep him around.
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Sitting through a 3-4 hour game is like watching paint dry.
I find football pretty boring too.
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I find football pretty boring too.
Attention spans are shortening by the day. Perhaps that explains the decline in popularity of baseball. Certainly, the ratings suggest America loves its football. Obviously a football game is an event, due to their scarcity. Baseball with 162 games? WAY too much "product."
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I love watching baseball (though agree they should take measures to make games shorter). I can't stand watching football on TV anymore. In person is still fun but sitting through 2 hours of commercials and an hour of players standing around for maybe 15 minutes of action just doesn't do it for me anymore. My love of basketball trumps both obviously
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I love watching baseball (though agree they should take measures to make games shorter). I can't stand watching football on TV anymore. In person is still fun but sitting through 2 hours of commercials and an hour of players standing around for maybe 15 minutes of action just doesn't do it for me anymore. My love of basketball trumps both obviously
Basketball is king for me too. Understand the sentiment about football. I usually DVR main games I want to watch and start them about 1 hour into the game. I also like to watch Red Zone Network which eliminates that down time you mention.
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I love watching baseball (though agree they should take measures to make games shorter). I can't stand watching football on TV anymore. In person is still fun but sitting through 2 hours of commercials and an hour of players standing around for maybe 15 minutes of action just doesn't do it for me anymore. My love of basketball trumps both obviously
Sounds like you've been watching a bit of footie lately.
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Baseball is aptly named the national pastime. It's past its time of relevancy. Most overpaid "athletes" on the planet. Boring. Game needs a "pitch clock," (like 10 seconds from the time pitcher gets the ball back) and to be shortened to 7 innings. Sitting through a 3-4 hour game is like watching paint dry.
.... so... don't watch?
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I love watching baseball (though agree they should take measures to make games shorter). I can't stand watching football on TV anymore. In person is still fun but sitting through 2 hours of commercials and an hour of players standing around for maybe 15 minutes of action just doesn't do it for me anymore. My love of basketball trumps both obviously
Could not agree more. As for basketball I love the college game, the NBA not so much. I hate when an NBA star can take multiple steps to the basket and not get called for traveling while a sub gets called because he moved his pivot foot.
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I've kind of figured out that most sports are background noise for me. I really only actively watch games involving teams with rooting interests - Packers and Warriors especially.
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National players have apparently voted not to travel to Miami this weekend for their series with the Marlins.
Things are going well.
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Basketball is by far my favorite to watch. NBA is by far the more entertaining game to watch. I'll watch a random NBA game well before I'll watch a random college basketball game.
I'd take football over baseball. But I still enjoy watching baseball. I won't make it a priority to sit through entire games until the Playoffs. But I love the baseball Playoffs, maybe more than any of the other sports.
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https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29553630/mlb-postpones-all-marlins-games-sunday
All Marlins games postponed through Sunday.
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.... so... don't watch?
I don't - at least not until the Championship Series begin/World Series. Since there is so little being discussed here at present, thought I'd chime in. Times change. Things need to evolve. Baseball has essentially stood still, while other leagues are continuously evaluating, tweaking, and IMO, improving the product.
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Looks like Joe Kelly somehow became the first player punished by MLB in connection with the Astros sign-stealing scheme.
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Looks like Joe Kelly somehow became the first player punished by MLB in connection with the Astros sign-stealing scheme.
Well done.
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Kyle Hendricks might be the most overrated pitcher in baseball.
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Kyle Hendricks might be the most overrated pitcher in baseball.
Nah, that's Yu.
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Kyle Hendricks might be the most overrated pitcher in baseball.
Based on what? Seems like a hot take from a bad pair of innings. Where was this when he threw a 3 hit gem on Friday? He’s properly rated. He’s always been a very consistent 2/3 with crafty stuff who won’t overpower you. Dude has a 3.00 career ERA and that’s including a pair of back to back “rough” years by his standards, which still were sub 3.50
No arguments about Yu. Always want your high paid ace to be rattled pregame if it’s too windy or sunny
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Based on what? Seems like a hot take from a bad pair of innings. Where was this when he threw a 3 hit gem on Friday? He’s properly rated. He’s always been a very consistent 2/3 with crafty stuff who won’t overpower you. Dude has a 3.00 career ERA and that’s including a pair of back to back “rough” years by his standards, which still were sub 3.50
No arguments about Yu. Always want your high paid ace to be rattled pregame if it’s too windy or sunny
It’s a joke, Wags.
Some Cubs fan said last week that he might be the most underrated pitcher in baseball after he beat the Brewers.
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Welp, missed that. Fair play, well done
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Phillies weekend series with the Jays now postponed.
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Since everything is crazy in 2020.....
Edwin Ríos, last night, became the 1st leadoff hitter in an inning to ever hit a 2-run HR.
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Is Cleveland the team to beat in the AL Central. If Carrasco stays healthy, they may have the best top 4 starters in baseball.
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Cards bringing the COVID into our fair city. Game postponed tonight.
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4 teams now with positive cases. This seasons not going to last 2 more weeks is it?
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One more reason to dislike the Cardinals.
Unless there’s a bubble, I don’t see sports working this summer. Unless you are willing to live with a bunch of positive tests.
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Damn. Was fun while it lasted, but this is hard enough to do with the bubbles. Without one, its just not going to work. I saw today that the protocol for Trout was that while he's on the paternity list, so long as he gets tested every other day, he hac rejoin the team without any quarantine or delay. That kind of protocol just isn't going to cut it.
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Unless there’s a bubble, I don’t see sports working this summer. Unless you are willing to live with a bunch of positive tests.
I think MLB will prove a great example of a cognitive dissonance we have broadly about controlling this illness. They expanded the rosters and introduced the taxi squads on the assumption that, in addition to playing more games in fewer days so needing access to more players, there would be some positive tests that might require teams to reach deeper into their system.
But the problem is that by the time you have positive tests, you've probably already lost contain on spread within the team, and likely the team they last played. So MLB had a contingency for something which, if it came to pass, was going to ruin the whole enterprise anyway. Its not like MLB's plan seemed totally unreasonable to me, so I'm just armchair QB-ing, but its an important data point, at least for other sports leagues.
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4 teams now with positive cases. This seasons not going to last 2 more weeks is it?
2 more weeks? I would be surprised if it lasts the weekend.
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I think MLB will prove a great example of a cognitive dissonance we have broadly about controlling this illness.
100% this. The fact that we still have college ADs and NFL teams debating stadium capacity shows that they are woefully behind the learning curve. Still.
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100% this. The fact that we still have college ADs and NFL teams debating stadium capacity shows that they are woefully behind the learning curve. Still.
Nebraska’s AD was talking full capacity yesterday
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Wouldn't have happened if the Cards followed the unwritten rules
Also, bump:
I think this is all going to fail spectacularly in all sports and demonstrate exactly how extensively our governments mismanaged this
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And this is the group of people that we think are going to be able to stage college basketball games this winter?
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Maybe MLB needs to look at the Milwaukee Milkman. They are rolling along fine. Players are testing negative.
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I don’t know how they haven’t figured this out yet. Just stop testing.
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Maybe MLB needs to look at the Milwaukee Milkman. They are rolling along fine. Players are testing negative.
The only thing those two things have in common is that they play baseball.
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The only thing those two things have in common is that they play baseball.
Yes, that looks to be the problem.
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The only thing those two things have in common is that they play are playing baseball, and the MLB is not.
FIFY
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Maybe MLB needs to look at the Milwaukee Milkman. They are rolling along fine. Players are testing negative.
Didn’t they have a positive test postpone their opening day? I think it was the Chicago Team that had the positive, but that league hasn’t been immune.
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Wouldn't have happened if the Cards followed the unwritten rules
Also, bump:
Except that all other sports other than baseball are doing just fine...
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Except that all other sports other than baseball are doing just fine...
When you say "all other sports" you mean MLS, NBA and WNBA....so far. And they have bubbled their entire teams. Hockey is basically the same, but they are also in Canada which is handling this way better than we are.
Baseball wasn't willing to do that. The NFL doesn't look to be doing that either.
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I assume they'll keep powering through and add a week or two onto the end of the season to make up the games that are getting cancelled. They should probably stop now but no indications it's even on the table.
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Didn’t they have a positive test postpone their opening day? I think it was the Chicago Team that had the positive, but that league hasn’t been immune.
I was at Opening Day. It was the 3rd game of the season. July 5th. No postpone games since.
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The Cardinals have two positive tests (for now). Both are pitchers.
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When you say "all other sports" you mean MLS, NBA and WNBA....so far. And they have bubbled their entire teams. Hockey is basically the same, but they are also in Canada which is handling this way better than we are.
Baseball wasn't willing to do that. The NFL doesn't look to be doing that either.
But that’s not what he said. He originally posted that in the NBA thread, when a bubble was already in process and stated that it would be a disaster like all other sports.
I’m. It doubting that the MLB is different and handling it with some significant issues. But he’s taking a victory lap over a prediction that wasn’t even baseball related initially, and isn’t true for the aforementioned leagues. Or the PGA or NASCAR.
If he said “all non-bubble sports” sure. But I specifically remember people asking how he anticipated the NBA bubble “failing spectacularly” after he made his original prediction.
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But that’s not what he said. He originally posted that in the NBA thread, when a bubble was already in process and stated that it would be a disaster like all other sports.
I’m. It doubting that the MLB is different and handling it with some significant issues. But he’s taking a victory lap over a prediction that wasn’t even baseball related initially, and isn’t true for the aforementioned leagues. Or the PGA or NASCAR.
If he said “all non-bubble sports” sure. But I specifically remember people asking how he anticipated the NBA bubble “failing spectacularly” after he made his original prediction.
I was just responding to you without the proper context. And you are right about the PGA and NASCAR, but those are very different type of sports where positive tests don't impact the event directly.
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Fastest way to solve the covid problem the MLB is having is to make positive teams forfeit games and their paychecks for those games.
I'm the union would have problems with it, but self policing is best policing.
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Fastest way to solve the covid problem the MLB is having is to make positive teams forfeit games and their paychecks for those games.
I'm the union would have problems with it, but self policing is best policing.
work stoppage work stoppage work stoppage work stoppage
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work stoppage work stoppage work stoppage work stoppage
But that's what they're already doing ;)
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But that's what they're already doing ;)
Yeah but they're getting paid for it now!
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But then just have a bubble, call it what it is, and let players opt out. If I were a player and had to run the risks of the locker room, travel, and playing the games, then return to my family each night, and on top of it be told that if I got sick through no fault of my own I wouldn't get paid - all in an attempt to catch the guys making stupid decisions, I'd just say screw it and stay home.
And I understand the obvious parallels to non pro-athlete jobs, but I don't find the "this is how life is for grocery store workers so pro baseball players should just suck it up becuase they make millions" argument to be convincing. The players parlayed their labor into a strong union with the resources to protect them from those dangers in this situation. We should be finding ways to get grocery store workers closer to where baseball players are, not trying to cut the baseball players off at the knees becuse their union is too successful.
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Is Cleveland the team to beat in the AL Central. If Carrasco stays healthy, they may have the best top 4 starters in baseball.
Amazing. They trade Bauer and Kluber and still are loaded with stud arms.
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Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred told MLB Players Association executive director Tony Clark on Friday that if the sport doesn't do a better job of managing the coronavirus, it could shut down for the season, sources familiar with the conversation told ESPN.
Could happen as soon as Monday if there are more positives this weekend.
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Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred told MLB Players Association executive director Tony Clark on Friday that if the sport doesn't do a better job of managing the coronavirus, it could shut down for the season, sources familiar with the conversation told ESPN.
Could happen as soon as Monday if there are more positives this weekend.
Really too late for the players to do anything by Monday.
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But then just have a bubble, call it what it is, and let players opt out. If I were a player and had to run the risks of the locker room, travel, and playing the games, then return to my family each night, and on top of it be told that if I got sick through no fault of my own I wouldn't get paid - all in an attempt to catch the guys making stupid decisions, I'd just say screw it and stay home.
We call that normal life for 99.5% of Americans
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Who shot down the bubble idea? Players or owners? What a $hitshow
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We call that normal life for 99.5% of Americans
Lol literally the part of my post you didn’t quote
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The historical numbers on Kimbrel are becoming staggering. The Cubs can’t put him out there any more.
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Brewers and Cards postponed again for Saturday.
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Some rumors of Cardinals at a casino. I know Poto is hard to turn down but come on.
I don’t see any way sports work at the moment without a bubble. Manfred really screwed this up. Seems to be no enforcement other than a stern talking to. Also, to say if the players don’t clean this up over the weekend so there aren’t more positives this weekend and Monday shows a lack of understanding of how this virus works. We won’t see the effect of changed behavior until later this upcoming week.
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Perhaps they’re only do the “stern talking toos” because they already know the season is trashed and they’re just building up evidence so they won’t have to pay players when it does get cancelled.
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Marlins went to a strip club. Cardinals to a casino. Both teams should have to forfeit their missed games.
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The Cardinals were tested again this morning 11am Central time. Three of the six positive tests thus far have been staff and three have been players.
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Lorenzo Cain sitting out the rest of the season. Would not be shocked if Braun pulls the plug as he mentioned taking it day by day.
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Shut it down, hey?
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Cain opts out.
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Don't see how the season lasts more than a couple more weeks, and that's if the league holds its nose and forges ahead. Keep in mind these are lagging indicators, so even if the MLB were doing more than saying strong words, the damage is done.
You won't convince me that this isn't the outcome Manfred always wanted. Saying they lose money for each game played without fans. Blame the union for not negotiating in good faith, not putting in sufficient employer-driven safeguards, then vilify the players again.
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Every public word out of Manfred's mouth right now is setting up the players to go under the bus when he inevitably cans the season. It's only a matter of time.
Also, get ready for massive labor strife, because Manfred's PR campaign isn't subtle and there's a zero-percent chance the players don't see right through him. (which is really just icing on the cake of what was going to be labor strife anyway, but it never helps to have one party preemptively setting up hit pieces with complicit media in advance).
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Every public word out of Manfred's mouth right now is setting up the players to go under the bus when he inevitably cans the season. It's only a matter of time.
Also, get ready for massive labor strife, because Manfred's PR campaign isn't subtle and there's a zero-percent chance the players don't see right through him. (which is really just icing on the cake of what was going to be labor strife anyway, but it never helps to have one party preemptively setting up hit pieces with complicit media in advance).
+1000
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Don’t go to strip clubs and casinos maybe? Players aren’t blameless here.
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Don’t go to strip clubs and casinos maybe? Players aren’t blameless here.
I mean, sure, but to have the guy who's going to have to be ultimately responsible for canning the experiment to be seeding the whole "if you players don't straighten up and fly right, this might not work" narrative ahead of time it's... uh... not subtle about what he's doing.
Even if he thinks all he is doing is buying himself insurance and he believes they'll pull this off, he's poisoning the well here.
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I mean, sure, but to have the guy who's going to have to be ultimately responsible for canning the experiment to be seeding the whole "if you players don't straighten up and fly right, this might not work" narrative ahead of time it's... uh... not subtle about what he's doing.
Even if he thinks all he is doing is buying himself insurance and he believes they'll pull this off, he's poisoning the well here.
Is he wrong though? The game that have been cancelled so far all stemmed from the marlins and Cardinals testing positive and it spreading from there. The marlins internally decided to play despite knowing of positive tests. It got leaked they went to strip clubs. Cardinals tested positive. It got out that they went to casinos. There haven’t been any incidents so far not related to those two teams having players being idiots. They’re to blame right now.
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When did these teams go to the casinos and strip clubs? The Marlins has covid going around 4 days into the season. Seems like it would’ve been contracted before the season began. To pretend covid wouldn’t have turned into an issue if the Marlins hadn’t gone to a club or Cards hadn’t gone to a casino is just as ignorant as thinking the baseball season could work with teams traveling around the country.
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Marlins went to a strip club. Cardinals to a casino. Both teams should have to forfeit their missed games.
Yep.
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Yep.
Subscribe.
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They should just be kicked out of the season.
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Hope everything is OK with Yoenis Cespedes. Not good.
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Hope everything is OK with Yoenis Cespedes. Not good.
They said they have no reason to believe he is at risk, allegedly after speaking to people in his camp. This is a combination of a dude who has seemingly little desire to put in work after getting his big deal and some injuries recently, and a poorly run organization who put out hasty statements.
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They said they have no reason to believe he is at risk, allegedly after speaking to people in his camp. This is a combination of a dude who has seemingly little desire to put in work after getting his big deal and some injuries recently, and a poorly run organization who put out hasty statements.
Yup, this. Mets confirmed he opted out the rest of the season and evidently just flipped them the freedom rockets rather than let them know.
Is he wrong though? The game that have been cancelled so far all stemmed from the marlins and Cardinals testing positive and it spreading from there. The marlins internally decided to play despite knowing of positive tests. It got leaked they went to strip clubs. Cardinals tested positive. It got out that they went to casinos. There haven’t been any incidents so far not related to those two teams having players being idiots. They’re to blame right now.
Players - and teams if these were team outings - should definitely bear a good brunt of the blame here. But the reality is that without tight protocols and something resembling bubble-lite, there were always going to be enough individual outliers here to cause problems. The MLB player pool sample size is just too big that covid wasn't going to get in the clubhouses.
So while Manfred definitely isn't 100% wrong, his self-crafted PR persona makes him look like just about the strangest oaf I've ever seen. "I'm not a quitter" - ? He sounds like a cross between Gary Bettman and an average meathead at the gym. He's come across that way from the beginning too, with the LeBatard Marlins stuff, etc. Just a very odd choice for the owners to choose as their frontman if they actually want there to be baseball (ed. note - they don't. The owners won't let there be baseball after this CBA expires unless there is a salary cap, and everything they've done for the past two years has been in service of that.)
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Hate to say it, Burrow, but I agree 100%.
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After waiting to pitch for 3 days, Jack Flaherty getting in a throwing session and workout, all while not having left his hotel room:
https://twitter.com/Jack9Flaherty/status/1290050299130859520?s=19
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David Stearns says Brewers bench coach Pat Murphy is currently resting comfortably in the hospital, should be released in a couple of days after suffering a heart attack Saturday during the Brewers workout. Prognosis for a recovery is good, Stearns said.
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Avi in center is a bold choice.
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Not that it matters, but the Cardinals President denied the Jerry Hairston Jr. rumor that some players went to the Casino.
They are saying someone in their travel party (57 people on the flight) was unknowingly COVID-19 positive prior to Milwaukee arrival on that flight. It quickly spread to 12 other within five days. They believe they have it contained and would next play vs Cubs this upcoming weekend. We'll see.
Some (Bader, Fowler, Edmonds etc...) were at the outdoor drive in Nelly concert in St. Louis (The name of the venue is Hollywood Casino Amphitheatre) in mid July, but they were wearing masks/social distancing.
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Not that it matters, but the Cardinals President denied the Jerry Hairston Jr. rumor that some players went to the Casino.
They are saying someone in their travel party (57 people on the flight) was unknowingly COVID-19 positive prior to Milwaukee arrival on that flight. It quickly spread to 12 other within five days. They believe they have it contained and would next play vs Cubs this upcoming weekend. We'll see.
Some (Bader, Fowler, Edmonds etc...) were at the outdoor drive in Nelly concert in St. Louis (The name of the venue is Hollywood Casino Amphitheatre) in mid July, but they were wearing masks/social distancing.
How can a team make up seven games?
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How can a team make up seven games?
Many 7 inning doubleheaders, but, with so few off days, that is a challenge.
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That was a fun baseball game. Tomorrow should be a good one as well with Giolito and Woodruff. With that being said, it'll probably be a 12-10 game.
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When your lineup includes Healy, Smoak, Gyorko, Morrison, Pina, and Arica, you are awful close to Florida Marlins territory.
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When your lineup includes Healy, Smoak, Gyorko, Morrison, Pina, and Arica, you are awful close to Florida Marlins territory.
And Yelich hasn’t exactly been tearing the cover off the ball. Hopefully just a slow start. However, there’s not much time to bounce back.
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Not that it matters, but the Cardinals President denied the Jerry Hairston Jr. rumor that some players went to the Casino.
They are saying someone in their travel party (57 people on the flight) was unknowingly COVID-19 positive prior to Milwaukee arrival on that flight. It quickly spread to 12 other within five days. They believe they have it contained and would next play vs Cubs this upcoming weekend. We'll see.
Some (Bader, Fowler, Edmonds etc...) were at the outdoor drive in Nelly concert in St. Louis (The name of the venue is Hollywood Casino Amphitheatre) in mid July, but they were wearing masks/social distancing.
Since some of the players have volunteered their medical information publicly, it can be shared that six of the seven Cardinal positive testing players are: starters: Paul DeJong, Yadier Molina, and reserves: Junior Fernandez, Kodi Whitley, Edmund Sosa, Rangel Ravelo. One hasn’t been identified. The media relations director also was a travel party positive test. It is believed a few were coaches not confirmed. All positives returned home. Eight of 13 had mild symptoms of head ache, cough, fever. The first two positive tests were in Minnesota prior to Milwaukee, tracing the initial positive from St. Louis before the road trip.
The team has to clear today, the 2nd straight day of zero positive tests to travel. Each player has to sit out 8 days after two negative tests and 72 hours symptom free, antibody test and cardiac tests and exams.
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Yelich is really, really struggling. Haven’t seen a Brewer swing and miss this much since Ricky Weeks.
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Yelich is really, really struggling. Haven’t seen a Brewer swing and miss this much since Ricky Weeks.
We’ve never seen him in this deep a slump. I think Schroeder mentioned tonight, timing is just off.
I can’t believe this will go on much longer though.
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We’ve never seen him in this deep a slump. I think Schroeder mentioned tonight, timing is just off.
I can’t believe this will go on much longer though.
I thought he would come out of it pretty quick too. But he looked the worst tonight I have seen yet. Hopefully it ends soon.
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I’m glad the Sox got to play the Brewers while Yelich is struggling this bad.
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I’m glad the Sox got to play the Brewers while Yelich is struggling this bad.
Six straight (all on the road) for the Sox. Lack of SP depth still scary, though.
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I thought he would come out of it pretty quick too. But he looked the worst tonight I have seen yet. Hopefully it ends soon.
I agree. That 8th inning at bat, he just looked overmatched. Never ever thought I’d have zero confidence in Yelich during a clutch situation.
We’ll keep telling ourselves it’s early 😀
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I’m glad the Sox got to play the Brewers while Yelich is struggling this bad.
Sox are good. Impressed with them.
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I’m glad the Sox got to play the Brewers while Yelich is struggling this bad.
And no Braun or Cain.
Woodruff and Giolito both pitched great. Another fun game.
Though, happy they're leaving Milwaukee. No more shoulders to injure.
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Universal DH has gotta stay right? I never want to see a pitcher swing a bat again.
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Universal DH has gotta stay right? I never want to see a pitcher swing a bat again.
Think most National League fans and/or self proclaimed “purists” will arrive at the same conclusion.
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Think most National League fans and/or self proclaimed “purists” will arrive at the same conclusion.
I still wish the pitcher batted in the NL.
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Think most National League fans and/or self proclaimed “purists” will arrive at the same conclusion.
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Think most National League fans and/or self proclaimed “purists” will arrive at the same conclusion.
I will always think that pitchers should have to bat in both leagues.
But I also understand the investment teams make into pitchers and how the DH protects those investments. I think a universal DH makes more sense than a DH in one league but not in the other.
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Houser was great tonight. He was just dealing.
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Tip of the cap to the Brew Crew, Houser was Greg Maddux 2.0 tonight. Good ballgame.
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I will always think that pitchers should have to bat in both leagues.
But I also understand the investment teams make into pitchers and how the DH protects those investments. I think a universal DH makes more sense than a DH in one league but not in the other.
The DH is an almost universal rule in amateur and professional baseball. As my progressive friends like to say, you’re on the wrong side of history on this one.
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Think most National League fans and/or self proclaimed “purists” will arrive at the same conclusion.
I hate the DH and if they keep the universal DH that will probably cause my interest in baseball to decrease any more. I realize no one should really care what my interest in baseball is though :). I love the strategy that comes with the pitcher hitting in the NL.
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I hate the DH and if they keep the universal DH that will probably cause my interest in baseball to decrease any more. I realize no one should really care what my interest in baseball is though :). I love the strategy that comes with the pitcher hitting in the NL.
I just don't really think its all that strategic though.
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I like the idea of once you pull your starting pitcher, you lose the DH.
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I just don't really think its all that strategic though.
Agree. People act like the double switch is akin to cracking Japanese codes in WWII. It’s basic, simple and unexciting - as unexciting as watching 95% of all pitchers hit.
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I'm a fan of no DH, but looking at the split between the Cubs starters and bullpen...I'll take any reason to keep our starters in the game as long as possible.
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The DH is an almost universal rule in amateur and professional baseball. As my progressive friends like to say, you’re on the wrong side of history on this one.
I don't think I'm on a side of history here. I'm not protesting the MLB for making the switch, I'm not wailing or gnashing my teeth over it. I have a personal preference but understand and accept why the MLB (and other levels of baseball) are going in a different direction.
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I don't think I'm on a side of history here. I'm not protesting the MLB for making the switch, I'm not wailing or gnashing my teeth over it. I have a personal preference but understand and accept why the MLB (and other levels of baseball) are going in a different direction.
It was a joke TAMU.
But while we’re on the subject, is wailing and gnashing of teeth a requirement when holding an opinion that others feel to be on the wrong side of history?
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That was the best worst inside the park home run ever.
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That was the best worst inside the park home run ever.
Horrific angle/path to the ball? Check. Complete whiff on a still catchable ball? Check. Keystone Cops tumble into the net? Check. If you didn’t know better, it looked like a terribly veiled effort at throwing the game
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Should that have been a double? I thought it bounced into the netting.
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It kinda seemed like he thought there would be a lot less give to the netting, maybe like he expected to bounce off it like a trampoline or a padded fence and then OOOPS nope it's got a lot of slack.
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Should that have been a double? I thought it bounced into the netting.
OK I guess the net is considered a wall. If a ball bounces first, and then off the net, it is in play. Also errant throws that hit the net are in play as well.
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Entire Cubs v. Cardinals series has been canceled due to COVID. By the end of the weekend most teams will have played 16 games...Cardinals will have played five. That's a lot of doublheaders coming up.
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Entire Cubs v. Cardinals series has been canceled due to COVID. By the end of the weekend most teams will have played 16 games...Cardinals will have played five. That's a lot of doublheaders coming up.
Apparently the Cardinals series with Pittsburgh scheduled for Mon-Wed has also been cancelled. That will put St. Louis about 14 games behind most other teams.
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Apparently the Cardinals series with Pittsburgh scheduled for Mon-Wed has also been cancelled. That will put St. Louis about 14 games behind most other teams.
Probably just best for them to forfeit the year and move on.
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Didn’t the MLB make it so that there’s basically a group of 30 players waiting to be called up so when covid hits someone they aren’t short on guys? Why wouldn’t they just say, “Well, you decided to go out to a casino during a pandemic and now you can’t stop the spread of covid in your clubhouse, so your entire active roster is going into quarantine and the 30 backup players (plus coaches?) are playing for the next 2 weeks. If they go 0-14 too bad, that’s on you.” Why are they not doing that and instead just cancelling games, ruining their own season and cutting games from other teams?
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Didn’t the MLB make it so that there’s basically a group of 30 players waiting to be called up so when covid hits someone they aren’t short on guys? Why wouldn’t they just say, “Well, you decided to go out to a casino during a pandemic and now you can’t stop the spread of covid in your clubhouse, so your entire active roster is going into quarantine and the 30 backup players (plus coaches?) are playing for the next 2 weeks. If they go 0-14 too bad, that’s on you.” Why are they not doing that and instead just cancelling games, ruining their own season and cutting games from other teams?
Agree with this. It’s stupid to be canceling all these games when teams were given vastly expanded rosters in the form of 60 player pools to handle this.
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28/30 MLB teams have listened to the rules and stayed out of trouble. Why are you going to punish those teams with double headers to make up games with the Marlins and Cardinals because they decided they wanted to go to a strip club/casino.
Make them play the AAA squad or forfeit the games.
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28/30 MLB teams have listened to the rules and stayed out of trouble. Why are you going to punish those teams with double headers to make up games with the Marlins and Cardinals because they decided they wanted to go to a strip club/casino.
Make them play the AAA squad or forfeit the games.
Bingo!
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28/30 MLB teams have listened to the rules and stayed out of trouble. Why are you going to punish those teams with double headers to make up games with the Marlins and Cardinals because they decided they wanted to go to a strip club/casino.
Make them play the AAA squad or forfeit the games.
The Cardinals didn't go to a Casino.
Amazing how fast and far a false rumor spreads. Jerry Hairston Jr. started a false rumor on social media that the Cardinals went to a casino. It is pretty wild how many people believed it without verifying it first, and, still do believe it, or would rather believe that than have whatever the facts may be. Lots and lots of crickets from those that got it wrong.
The Cardinals had one member of their travel party, non-player, that was unknowingly COVID-19 positive on their team plane. 57 people were on the flight. It very quickly spread to different players, coaches, staff. That's all it takes, and, one is too many. Their protocol was not good enough. But no, they weren't out partying or going to casinos.
In this thread alone, 7-9 people have repeated the false rumor
Stay for the Potawatomi Casino video references. 👍
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/facts-refute-claims-cardinals-got-covid-19-at-casino/article_1d8341d8-33f2-5e31-83d9-3c875927161b.html
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So who gets the unofficial fan MVP so far, Kelly, or Laureano?
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The Cardinals didn't go to a Casino.
Amazing how fast and far a false rumor spreads. Jerry Hairston Jr. started a false rumor on social media that the Cardinals went to a casino. It is pretty wild how many people believed it without verifying it first, and, still do believe it, or would rather believe that than have whatever the facts may be. Lots and lots of crickets from those that got it wrong.
The Cardinals had one member of their travel party, non-player, that was unknowingly COVID-19 positive on their team plane. 57 people were on the flight. It very quickly spread to different players, coaches, staff. That's all it takes, and, one is too many. Their protocol was not good enough. But no, they weren't out partying or going to casinos.
In this thread alone, 7-9 people have repeated the false rumor
Stay for the Potawatomi Casino video references. 👍
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/facts-refute-claims-cardinals-got-covid-19-at-casino/article_1d8341d8-33f2-5e31-83d9-3c875927161b.html
Cardinals should forfeit every game that has been postponed. Period.
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Cardinals should forfeit every game that has been postponed. Period.
The Cardinals didn't do good enough with their protocol. That's a fact. You spread a false rumor in this thread. This is also a fact. 👍
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The Cardinals didn't do good enough with their protocol. That's a fact. You spread a false rumor in this thread. This is also a fact. 👍
Cool.
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So who gets the unofficial fan MVP so far, Kelly, or Laureano?
I stan Joe Kelly now.
Any prop bets on the suspension lengths?
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Cardinals should forfeit every game that has been postponed. Period.
In a 162 game season, the Cardinals could make up most, if not all of the lost games. And if they didn't, OK, a season that long would provide a fair teat of the team's capabilities.
But at 60 games with at least eight cancelled, I have no idea how they'll make these games up and stay within the Basic Agreement between owners and players. We can say doubleheaders, but will they be back in Detroit? At some point, I just think that the team should call it a season and work on next year. Figure out a work-around for everyone else and tell the Cardinals, wel'll see you next year.
That folks, is from a Cardinals fan no less.
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So who gets the unofficial fan MVP so far, Kelly, or Laureano?
Kelly for the pure audacity and execution of it. But Laureano gets a mention cause he calmly was willing to take everyone on. The Astros hitting coach calling him out and inciting him to charge the dugout before hiding behind a bunch of players is the biggest douche in the situation. What a spineless tool
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So who gets the unofficial fan MVP so far, Kelly, or Laureano?
I think the Cardinals should forfeit every game they miss, and we can give the MVP to the casino.
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But at 60 games with at least eight cancelled, I have no idea how they'll make these games up.
With the cancellation of the Pittsburgh series it will be 13 games to make up. That's a 162-game season equivalent of 35 games to make up.
Cards will have to play 55 games in 46 days.
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With the cancellation of the Pittsburgh series it will be 13 games to make up. That's a 162-game season equivalent of 35 games to make up.
Cards will have to play 55 games in 46 days.
Which is going to be tough on the Cardinals, but also very tough on their opponents. Having a series of double headers is going to tax the bullpen, even if it’s only 7 innings. That’s 14 innings a day.
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At this point they should just forfeit all Cardinals games, including the ones they won, and declare their season over.
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Are they releasing revamped schedules on a rolling basis for how they're going to get these games in? I've been assuming that MLB will flip 9 inning games into 7 inning double headers when convenient, but that they are probably okay with having the season wrap up with an uneven number of games, and then cram in the bear minimum of makeup games for teams who are short to mathematically eliminate teams from the playoffs.
As an aside, that's why it was unwise to expand the playoffs so much. Much more likely you get, say, the Marlins within .5 game of the last playoff spot having played 6 fewer games and then you have a conundrum on your hands. Do you have a weeks worth of makeup games? My guess is MLB would just do a one game "makeup tiebreaker" for the last spot or make something else up on the fly.
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At this point they should just forfeit all Cardinals games, including the ones they won, and declare their season over.
As a Brewers fan, I endorse the Cardinals forfeiting their season and passing the wins to the Brewers.
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Can't just have them forfeit or you give the AL Central and NL Central teams an unfair advantage for a playoff spot. If you just remove them then each NL Central team gets 10 less games. Not sure what the solution is but I imagine they will play as many as possible. Should just extend the season by a week to ten days.
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Can't just have them forfeit or you give the AL Central and NL Central teams an unfair advantage for a playoff spot. If you just remove them then each NL Central team gets 10 less games. Not sure what the solution is but I imagine they will play as many as possible. Should just extend the season by a week to ten days.
Remove their games and seed by winning percentage then.
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Remove their games and seed by winning percentage then.
I think this is what may end up happening but then how does each NL Central team fill those 10 dates? Off days? Could put them at a competitive disadvantage to have so many in-season breaks.
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I think this is what may end up happening but then how does each NL Central team fill those 10 dates? Off days? Could put them at a competitive disadvantage to have so many in-season breaks.
Pretty small problem considering.
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Cardinals were supposed to play a doubleheader against Detroit on Thursdsy to make up for previously postponed games - now the doubleheader has been postponed.
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Here's a question for all you baseball fans. Why hasn't every team taken one game of each Astros series and just plonked every batter until they are all ejected from the game? Just don't stop until the umpires call the game...
Wouldn't it be worth it as an anti-cheating message to the team and the league?
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Here's a question for all you baseball fans. Why hasn't every team taken one game of each Astros series and just plonked every batter until they are all ejected from the game? Just don't stop until the umpires call the game...
Wouldn't it be worth it as an anti-cheating message to the team and the league?
No. That’s dumb.
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And why did the Astro karma land on the Cardinals?
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And why did the Astro karma land on the Cardinals?
Those are the unwritten rules of baseball for you.
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And why did the Astro karma land on the Cardinals?
The Cardinals must have picked up a virus when they hacked the Astros.
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The Cardinals transmit the virus the Right Way.
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Mike Clevinger seems like a smart chap.
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Mike Clevinger seems like a smart chap.
He and Plesac owe Carlos Carrasco, in particular, one heck of an apology.
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Cintron gets 20 game suspension. Gotta think it's partly because of his heavy involvement in setting up Astros' cheating.
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No. That’s dumb.
So, the cheating was OK and nobody cares?
Or every team is doing it but the Astros were the only ones dumb enough to get caught?
If this happened in a sport I followed/loved I'd be infuriated. If it went unpunished (as it seemingly has) I'd just never watch the sport again.
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So, the cheating was OK and nobody cares?
Or every team is doing it but the Astros were the only ones dumb enough to get caught?
If this happened in a sport I followed/loved I'd be infuriated. If it went unpunished (as it seemingly has) I'd just never watch the sport again.
What? What kind of leap in logic is that?
Your suggestion of continuously throwing at them is dumb.
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If this happened in a sport I followed/loved I'd be infuriated. If it went unpunished (as it seemingly has) I'd just never watch the sport again.
IOW, punish yourself. Not uncommon - lots of “I’ll never watch a game I love because of something I have no control over”(fill in the blank, lots of different possible answers). I don’t get it, but maybe I don’t fall out of love easily enough.
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^ that reminds me of lifelong Bucks fans that I know that refuse to watch this summer because they are kneeling, "So if the Bucks win possibly their last championship in your life you'll have an asterisk next to that because of BLM and not the pandemic like everyone else will associate with this season's winner?"
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^ that reminds me of lifelong Bucks fans that I know that refuse to watch this summer because they are kneeling, "So if the Bucks win possibly their last championship in your life you'll have an asterisk next to that because of BLM and not the pandemic like everyone else will associate with this season's winner?"
Or lifelong MU fans who will begin distancing themselves from the program if they (along with the rest of the BE, and many other conferences I would guess) put a BLM patch on their uniforms.
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Here's a question for all you baseball fans. Why hasn't every team taken one game of each Astros series and just plonked every batter until they are all ejected from the game? Just don't stop until the umpires call the game...
Wouldn't it be worth it as an anti-cheating message to the team and the league?
Giving the Astros a free win each series?k.
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How often can Counsel keep starting Lauer, Lindblom, and Anderson? With a weak offense, there is virtually no chance to win when one of those guys start.
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The Cardinals will be playing at the White Sox this weekend, starting Saturday with a doubleheader. They will also play a doubleheader Monday and Wednesday of next week at Wrigley Field vs the Cubs.
The Cardinals are renting 41 cars and a bus for the trip. We'll see.
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Fookin' BrewCrew has yet ta hit a hit offa Darvish threw 6+ innin's, hey?
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Fookin' BrewCrew has yet ta hit a hit offa Darvish threw 6+ innin's, hey?
Cubs have it going under rookie manager Joe Ross. Meanwhile phony genius/mad scientist Joe is flopping on the west coast.
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If you thought Mike Clevinger was an idiot, I give you Zach Plesac.
"The last thing I would want to do put anyone at risk," he said, looking directly into the camera while driving down the road.
https://deadspin.com/bozo-zach-plesac-lists-all-the-rules-he-broke-then-bla-1844720927
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Cubs have it going under rookie manager Joe Ross. Meanwhile phony genius/mad scientist Joe is flopping on the west coast.
Joe Ross :o
I made this comparison to my friend towards the end of his time with the Cubs...Joe Maddon is a lot like Jose Mourinho over the last 5-7 years. He has a different way of working philosophically. Can have immediate great short term results, but after a few seasons, the effect wears off and he becomes a detriment. The difference is that, while he’s become a bit stubborn and inflexible lately to a bad degree, Mourinho was a tactical genius. Maddon never was. However, Maddon was and is a fantastic chemistry and locker room guy, which in the bizarre world of baseball is actually hugely valueable. But his approach doesn’t work on a bunch of highly paid accomplished players who have the demand and pressure of expected success. He was the PERFECT guy for a young and developing Cubs team. And the exact wrong type of dude for an experience Cubs team that needed tactical skill and not goofy hijinks to keep them loose
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Cubs have it going under rookie manager Joe Ross. Meanwhile phony genius/mad scientist Joe is flopping on the west coast.
Who is this Joe guy?
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LOL. David, of course, not Joe (Nats pitcher). My bad.
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MLB teams showing the greatest ratings increase among Men 18-34:
Athletics +389%
Dodgers +357%
Rays +326%
Cardinals +271% (only 5 games)
Rangers +254%
Phillies +163%
Cubs +144%
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Ken Rosenthal reports: A Cincinnati Reds player has tested positive for COVID-19, and their game today with Pittsburgh has been canceled.
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So are the Cards actually going to play today?
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So are the Cards actually going to play today?
The Cardinals and White Sox are scheduled to play two games today, one tomorrow. And the Cardinals are scheduled for 5 vs the Cubs this upcoming week. (All 10 games vs Cubs are scheduled to be played at Wrigley, none in St. Louis) I believe they have at least 7 upcoming doubleheaders scheduled in the next six weeks.
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Speaking of the Cincinnati Reds, pitcher Sonny Gray continued his MLB record streak to 38 straight starts giving up 6 hits or less in a game.
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Ken Rosenthal reports: A Cincinnati Reds player has tested positive for COVID-19, and their game today with Pittsburgh has been canceled.
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Yep, this 'whole bunch of bubbles' concept is working great. I can't wait for college football, with way more teams and much bigger rosters....
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Yep, this 'whole bunch of bubbles' concept is working great. I can't wait for college football, with way more teams and much bigger rosters....
Huh?
Baseball isn’t in a bubble...
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Huh?
Baseball isn’t in a bubble...
I know. That's why I said 'whole bunch of bubbles.' Plural. One for each team. And each team's individual 'bubble' is a lot looser than the single bubble being used by the NBA. And then one 'bubble' interacts with another, and well...
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I know. That's why I said 'whole bunch of bubbles.' Plural. One for each team. And each team's individual 'bubble' is a lot looser than the single bubble being used by the NBA. And then one 'bubble' interacts with another, and well...
Each team isn’t in a “bubble.” Bubbles aren’t being used in the MLB. At all. The NHL has multiple “bubbles.” The MLB has 0 bubbles.
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Maybe going from Joe Madden to David (or Joe) Ross has taken the Cubs from missing the Playoffs to the best team in baseball. Or maybe it’s that the Cubs have played 17 games against the Brewers, Reds, Pirates, Royals, and Indians. Not exactly a murderers row right there. The only team over .500 they have played is a three game set against 10-8 Cleveland.
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Does the runner starting at 2nd base to start an extra inning count as an earned run against the pitcher starting that inning?
Edit: simple way to find the answer is look at the box score. Jeffress only 1 earned run, so the answer is no.
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Each team isn’t in a “bubble.” Bubbles aren’t being used in the MLB. At all. The NHL has multiple “bubbles.” The MLB has 0 bubbles.
Agree that they are not “bubbles“ in the same sense as TBT, NHL or NBA. But I have heard people describe the MLB as 30 teams playing in their own version of bubbles (loosely followed rules on player behavior, limited numbers of people in the ballparks, etc.). But yeah - it is a joke regardless of what you call it.
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I know injuries, weird season, but I didn’t think this Sox team would suck, and so far they do.
Anderson, Moncada, Grandal, Abreu, Mazara combined 0-25 in today’s doubleheader.
Mazara and Encarnacion can both leave town right now as far as I’m concerned.
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Agree that they are not “bubbles“ in the same sense as TBT, NHL or NBA. But I have heard people describe the MLB as 30 teams playing in their own version of bubbles (loosely followed rules on player behavior, limited numbers of people in the ballparks, etc.). But yeah - it is a joke regardless of what you call it.
Hears on the brewers broadcast last night that even the official scorer is working from home. Thats a little much, imo.
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Hears on the brewers broadcast last night that even the official scorer is working from home. Thats a little much, imo.
Nah. Choose safety when possible.
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Hears on the brewers broadcast last night that even the official scorer is working from home. Thats a little much, imo.
Are you kidding? Working in your underwear? Perfect!
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Are you kidding? Working in your underwear? Perfect!
No one else would be at the stadium, could score in your skivvies.
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When I had to dress up this summer, my go to was a dress shirt, suit jacket and gym shorts.
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Hears on the brewers broadcast last night that even the official scorer is working from home. Thats a little much, imo.
From what I've heard on the broadcasts, it seems that the Brewers radio team is doing it remotely, while pat and Ron seem to be traveling.
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From what I've heard on the broadcasts, it seems that the Brewers radio team is doing it remotely, while pat and Ron seem to be traveling.
Brewers tv crew isnt travelling either, broadcating from miller park.
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Pretty sure it’s a league wide rule that no radio or TV announcers are traveling.
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This whole Tatis grand slam controversy is really, really stupid. Young star thrown under the bus by his manager for an "unwritten rules" violation.
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This whole Tatis grand slam controversy is really, really stupid. Young star thrown under the bus by his manager for an "unwritten rules" violation.
But can he hit two Grand Slams in the same inning off of the same pitcher, like his dad did?...one of my favorite all time MLB records.
And the criticism of Jr. is nothing short of absurd, ridiculous.
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In some sports, I get not running up the score. I don't get it in baseball. There's no time limit. I have seen teams come down from 6+ runs in the bottom of ninth before. It's not likely but the game is never out of reach. These are pros, not little leaguers, if you don't want to get blown out, play better.
Now if the manager told him to take the pitch and he swung away, maybe still have a conversation about following directions but no need to call him out publicly.
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I'm going to withhold judgement until the Cardinals and their fans adjudicate this unwritren rule.
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This whole Tatis grand slam controversy is really, really stupid. Young star thrown under the bus by his manager for an "unwritten rules" violation.
I agree. I’ve followed baseball for 65 years and have never heard of this “unwritten rule”. I get not stealing a base up big but why can’t a guy swing away at 3 and 0?
If he missed the “take” sign and if his manager wants to make a point internally I get it. I don’t get the public shaming, though.
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I agree. I’ve followed baseball for 65 years and have never heard of this “unwritten rule”. I get not stealing a base up big but why can’t a guy swing away at 3 and 0?
If he missed the “take” sign and if his manager wants to make a point internally I get it. I don’t get the public shaming, though.
I commented to my son that the unwritten rules seem to grow by the year.
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I get not stealing a base up big but why can’t a guy swing away at 3 and 0?
I don't get why either of these is a problem. What is the difference between the two in your eyes? Not trying to be antagonistic. Just curious because I saw this distinction in an SI article today about the "controversy" and it seems like an arbitrary distinction to me.
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@JeffPassan: Unwritten rules are unwritten because when you write them down it exposes how truly stupid they are.
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I don't get why either of these is a problem. What is the difference between the two in your eyes? Not trying to be antagonistic. Just curious because I saw this distinction in an SI article today about the "controversy" and it seems like an arbitrary distinction to me.
I think for me its that if you don't actively try to succeed in an at bat, you fail. You strikeout with the bat on your shoulder, etc. Whereas there is no downside to not stealing a base. Plus stealing bases is probably one of the most common ways a position player can get hurt, so he probably doesn't typically want to take off up 6 runs either.
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I don't get why either of these is a problem. What is the difference between the two in your eyes? Not trying to be antagonistic. Just curious because I saw this distinction in an SI article today about the "controversy" and it seems like an arbitrary distinction to me.
I think the distinction is that a batter swinging at a pitch is an essential part of the game. No matter what the score, pitchers pitch trying to get outs and hitters hit trying to gets hits. Stealing bases adds an unnecessary dimension.
Comparing it to other sports, nobody complains if a back breaks a basic running play for a long TD in a rout, but passing and trick plays would be seen as rubbing it in. And in basketball, nobody says the team way ahead shouldn’t take and try to make shots, but a full court press when up big late is not a good look.
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Thom Brennaman getting canceled?
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Thom Brennaman getting canceled?
Young thhhom brenneman, as Harry used to say.
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I think the distinction is that a batter swinging at a pitch is an essential part of the game. No matter what the score, pitchers pitch trying to get outs and hitters hit trying to gets hits. Stealing bases adds an unnecessary dimension.
Comparing it to other sports, nobody complains if a back breaks a basic running play for a long TD in a rout, but passing and trick plays would be seen as rubbing it in. And in basketball, nobody says the team way ahead shouldn’t take and try to make shots, but a full court press when up big late is not a good look.
A batter swinging on a 3-0 count with a 7 run lead in the 8th inning as Tatis Jr. did is baseball’s version of running up the score!! Batters know it’s almost a certainty in that situation they’re getting a fastball right in the heart of the strike zone. All he had to do not to be a jacka$$ in that situation is watch the fastball go by and take your hacks the rest of the at bat, when you’re only guessing again at what’s coming.
There should be such a thing still as showing a little respect for your opponent when you’re giving them a beat down. It was a very cheap way of padding his stats. He crossed the line. Yes, some unwritten rules of baseball are stupid. But the trifecta of the situation- count, score, and inning, made it a blatant piling on a la the way you embarrass a basketball or football team when you’re just trying to run the score up on them.
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First the MLB comes down on Joe Kelly for the Astros cheating.
Now they threaten Trevor Bauer.
Meanwhile, all the cheating Astros... crickets
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Thom Brennaman getting canceled?
Initial response, mentioning your employers by name but not mentioning the LGBTQ community isn't going to go over well. He was definitely more panicked about losing his job.
https://twitter.com/TrevorPetersTV/status/1296254722299645952?s=19
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A batter swinging on a 3-0 count with a 7 run lead in the 8th inning as Tatis Jr. did is baseball’s version of running up the score!! Batters know it’s almost a certainty in that situation they’re getting a fastball right in the heart of the strike zone. All he had to do not to be a jacka$$ in that situation is watch the fastball go by and take your hacks the rest of the at bat, when you’re only guessing again at what’s coming.
There should be such a thing still as showing a little respect for your opponent when you’re giving them a beat down. It was a very cheap way of padding his stats. He crossed the line. Yes, some unwritten rules of baseball are stupid. But the trifecta of the situation- count, score, and inning, made it a blatant piling on a la the way you embarrass a basketball or football team when you’re just trying to run the score up on them.
Oh no. A bunch of people making millions of dollars to play a sport just fell behind even more in an early season baseball game! How horrible!
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A batter swinging on a 3-0 count with a 7 run lead in the 8th inning as Tatis Jr. did is baseball’s version of running up the score!! Batters know it’s almost a certainty in that situation they’re getting a fastball right in the heart of the strike zone. All he had to do not to be a jacka$$ in that situation is watch the fastball go by and take your hacks the rest of the at bat, when you’re only guessing again at what’s coming.
There should be such a thing still as showing a little respect for your opponent when you’re giving them a beat down. It was a very cheap way of padding his stats. He crossed the line. Yes, some unwritten rules of baseball are stupid. But the trifecta of the situation- count, score, and inning, made it a blatant piling on a la the way you embarrass a basketball or football team when you’re just trying to run the score up on them.
This is really dumb. What should he do? Strike out? Just hit a single?
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This is really dumb. What should he do? Strike out? Just hit a single?
Maybe read what I wrote?!? Because I spelled it out.
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A batter swinging on a 3-0 count with a 7 run lead in the 8th inning as Tatis Jr. did is baseball’s version of running up the score!! Batters know it’s almost a certainty in that situation they’re getting a fastball right in the heart of the strike zone. All he had to do not to be a jacka$$ in that situation is watch the fastball go by and take your hacks the rest of the at bat, when you’re only guessing again at what’s coming.
There should be such a thing still as showing a little respect for your opponent when you’re giving them a beat down. It was a very cheap way of padding his stats. He crossed the line. Yes, some unwritten rules of baseball are stupid. But the trifecta of the situation- count, score, and inning, made it a blatant piling on a la the way you embarrass a basketball or football team when you’re just trying to run the score up on them.
And what happens if the Rangers scored 7 runs over the remaining two innings? Who's the jacka$$ then?
This isn't little league. These are professionals whose bats are capable of heating up at any point and no time limit to stop them. Game is never out of reach. I think hurting the feelings of his opponents is less important than securing the W.
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If anyone subscribes to Jomboy on Youtube, he has a fair breakdown IMO. This was a young guy who may not know the exact unwritten rules because well, they're unwritten. What's the exact cutoff line? 6 runs, 7, 8? You will also see that he didn't even look at his third base coach or dugout in between the 3rd and 4th pitch so he couldn't have seen the take sign. Also, while the pitch was a strike, it wasn't exactly right down the middle. He later apologized and said he wants to use it as a learning experience. Other than leave the bat on his shoulder, not sure what else he is expected to do. Think there's a lot of overreacting going on. All IMO of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaW5B2SEnXg
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I get more “offended” or “upset” about a guy pimping a home run in a tight game than a guy teeing off on a meatball in a blowout. But neither one really matters at all.
If anyone subscribes to Jomboy on Youtube, he has a fair breakdown IMO. This was a young guy who may not know the exact unwritten rules because well, they're unwritten. What's the exact cutoff line? 6 runs, 7, 8? You will also see that he didn't even look at his third base coach or dugout in between the 3rd and 4th pitch so he couldn't have seen the take sign. Also, while the pitch was a strike, it wasn't exactly right down the middle. He later apologized and said he wants to use it as a learning experience. Other than leave the bat on his shoulder, not sure what else he is expected to do. Think there's a lot of overreacting going on. All IMO of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaW5B2SEnXg
He grew up as the son of an MLB player, and I’d guess he grew up around MLB clubhouses. He shouldn’t have apologized at all. The managers mishandled it and he became the scapegoat.
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If anyone subscribes to Jomboy on Youtube, he has a fair breakdown IMO. This was a young guy who may not know the exact unwritten rules because well, they're unwritten. What's the exact cutoff line? 6 runs, 7, 8? You will also see that he didn't even look at his third base coach or dugout in between the 3rd and 4th pitch so he couldn't have seen the take sign. Also, while the pitch was a strike, it wasn't exactly right down the middle. He later apologized and said he wants to use it as a learning experience. Other than leave the bat on his shoulder, not sure what else he is expected to do. Think there's a lot of overreacting going on. All IMO of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaW5B2SEnXg
Give me a break. His whole life has been growing up in baseball and the big leagues. He knew exactly what he was doing.
Take the 3-0 fastball and hack to your hearts content to hit one out after that pitch. That’s what he was expected to do. Ask his manager.
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And what happens if the Rangers scored 7 runs over the remaining two innings? Who's the jacka$$ then?
This isn't little league. These are professionals whose bats are capable of heating up at any point and no time limit to stop them. Game is never out of reach. I think hurting the feelings of his opponents is less important than securing the W.
Certainly- swing away after the pitch where you know it’s going to be grooved right down the plate for you on a pitch that major leaguers feast on more than any, especially when they know it’s coming.
Again- count, score, and inning trifecta matter.
And 7 run comebacks in your last two at bats are not terribly common, except in little league.
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Thom Brennaman getting canceled?
As a Cubs fan who has always hated him, SEE YA PAL!
Pretty brutal “error” on his part. If he so casually says that right before coming back on air, I’m shocked other stuff about him and this sort of language hasn’t come out yet
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Crotchety old baseball men: Respect the game and always play hard!
Also crotchety old baseball men: How dare you disrespect the game by always playing hard!
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Just have a mercy rule. If you can’t score more runs when you’re up a certain amount, then you shouldn’t be scoring more runs when you’re down a certain amount. Down more than 5 after 7? Call the game.
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Certainly- swing away after the pitch where you know it’s going to be grooved right down the plate for you on a pitch that major leaguers feast on more than any, especially when they know it’s coming.
Again- count, score, and inning trifecta matter.
And 7 run comebacks in your last two at bats are not terribly common, except in little league.
So you should not swing at a pitch that you have high likelihood of hitting when the game is still in question....because it will hurt the other team's feelings if you get a hit?
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Just have a mercy rule. If you can’t score more runs when you’re up a certain amount, then you shouldn’t be scoring more runs when you’re down a certain amount. Down more than 5 after 7? Call the game.
11 year olds dont play by those rules. (I get your sarcasm, i agree with you.)
Butthurt unwritten rules are dumb. Don't load the bases and go 3-0 on one of the best young hitters in the game.
Let the kids play, aina?
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So you should not swing at a pitch that you have high likelihood of hitting when the game is still in question....because it will hurt the other team's feelings if you get a hit?
A 3-0 pitch is typically swung at less than 10% of time across baseball. Even players considered the most aggressive 3-0 hitters, swing less than half the time. So without the big lead and game being late, highly likely he wouldn’t have been offering.
He did so knowing it was a golden opportunity to grease his stats, with almost no down side up 7 late.
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A 3-0 pitch is typically swung at less than 10% of time across baseball. Even players considered the most aggressive 3-0 hitters, swing less than half the time. So without the big lead and game being late, highly likely he would have been offering.
He did so knowing it was a golden opportunity to grease his stats, with almost no down side up 7 late.
I hate to have to state the obvious -players get paid based on their stats, they get awards based on their stats, they are remembered based on their stats.
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Brennaman calling a HR in the middle of his apology is an all time unintentional comedy hall of fame moment.
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A 3-0 pitch is typically swung at less than 10% of time across baseball. Even players considered the most aggressive 3-0 hitters, swing less than half the time. So without the big lead and game being late, highly likely he wouldn’t have been offering.
He did so knowing it was a golden opportunity to grease his stats, with almost no down side up 7 late.
If you're up 20+ runs or some other ridiculous amount, then take the pitch. 7 runs? Teams score 7 across two innings all the time.
Good for him. Tatis is fun as hell and I hope he changes nothing.
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Brennaman calling a HR in the middle of his apology is an all time unintentional comedy hall of fame moment.
I don’t know why he bothered with the call. He knows he’s fired.
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A 3-0 pitch is typically swung at less than 10% of time across baseball. Even players considered the most aggressive 3-0 hitters, swing less than half the time. So without the big lead and game being late, highly likely he wouldn’t have been offering.
He did so knowing it was a golden opportunity to grease his stats, with almost no down side up 7 late.
So you're a mind reader eh? Regardless, who cares if he did it to pad his stats or because he saw a hittable pitch and decided to swing? Either way, it helped his team secure the W.
I'm still searching for the downside of what he did....other than hurting a bunch of grown men's feelings.
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If you're up 20+ runs or some other ridiculous amount, then take the pitch. 7 runs? Teams score 7 across two innings all the time.
Good for him. Tatis is fun as hell and I hope he changes nothing.
Across any two given innings, yes. But last two at bats? When you’re facing the other teams closer fresh and throwing high 90’s smoke if you shave a couple runs off the lead? Not at all common.
Tatis is a great young player and fun to watch. I’ll be the lone wolf disagreeing with what he did here. Agree to disagree.
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Give me a break. His whole life has been growing up in baseball and the big leagues. He knew exactly what he was doing.
Take the 3-0 fastball and hack to your hearts content to hit one out after that pitch. That’s what he was expected to do. Ask his manager.
Watch the replay. After he grounds out to end the inning Hosmer clearly says to the Rangers dugout that he'll talk to him. Then look at his reaction when Hosmer is actually talking to him. Whether or not he should know the "unwritten rule" because he grew up around ball clubs is irrelevant because he clearly didn't know. You seem to be awfully offended for something that has nothing to do you with and will be forgotten about in a week.
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Good for him. Tatis is fun as hell and I hope he changes nothing.
Tatis is INCREDIBLY fun. He’s electric. Kind of amazing how he’s already overshadowed Machado as the monster on that Padres team. He reminds me A LOT of a young A Rod.
Related, kind of amazing how many sons of fairly big name MLB players are in the league right now and contributing at a young age. Tatis obviously, but Bo Bichette and Vlad Guerrero Jr in Toronto (Craig Biggio’s son too though he’s a bit older. Raul Mondesi’s son in KC.
Delino DeShields Jr, Dee Gordon (I remember Flash Gordon pitching FOREVER) too
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Brennaman calling a HR in the middle of his apology is an all time unintentional comedy hall of fame moment.
Agreed. They should fire him for being derelict in his duties on the home run call and leave the elephant in the room alone. 😃
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He was talking about a cigarette. Jeesh.
As for the other topic ... "unwritten rules" are stupid.
I remember a few years ago, a Padres player bunted to break up a no-hitter in the ninth inning of a 2-0 game. The outcome was still in doubt, yet the keepers of the unwritten rules were aghast.
There have been plenty of comebacks from 5 and 6 and 7-run deficits. If you don't want to give up a home run, don't throw a meatball.
Someday, some pitcher is gonna enforce an "unwritten rule" by killing somebody with a beanball.
"Yeah! That'll show him for swinging at the 3-0 meatball I threw!"
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Brennaman calling a HR in the middle of his apology is an all time unintentional comedy hall of fame moment.
Most pathetic home run call of all time? Easy yes. And that includes world series game losing team's announcers getting walked off.
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Maybe read what I wrote?!? Because I spelled it out.
I did. So very dumb.
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So you're a mind reader eh? Regardless, who cares if he did it to pad his stats or because he saw a hittable pitch and decided to swing? Either way, it helped his team secure the W.
I'm still searching for the downside of what he did....other than hurting a bunch of grown men's feelings.
He offended those with delicate sensibilities like Hutch.
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Across any two given innings, yes. But last two at bats? When you’re facing the other teams closer fresh and throwing high 90’s smoke if you shave a couple runs off the lead? Not at all common.
Tatis is a great young player and fun to watch. I’ll be the lone wolf disagreeing with what he did here. Agree to disagree.
They cut the pitcher the next day. If you're gonna get all sensitive about it, they should be forced to keep him on the roster.
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This will probably lose, because that's just how this works, but Rivers has Shane Bieber o/u K's tonight at 7.5, -129 versus the Pirates.
If that was at -140 or higher I wouldn't like it, but that looks real tempting at -129.
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And now the Mets have positive cases. Next couple of games postponed, until they postpone some more....
https://sports.yahoo.com/mets-game-postponed-covid-19-cases-marlins-mlb-210059177.html
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This will probably lose, because that's just how this works, but Rivers has Shane Bieber o/u K's tonight at 7.5, -129 versus the Pirates.
If that was at -140 or higher I wouldn't like it, but that looks real tempting at -129.
11 Ks through 6 innings. Nice call Dish - hope you backed up the truck!
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11 Ks through 6 innings. Nice call Dish - hope you backed up the truck!
Thanks Lenny! Didn’t back up the truck, but made a decent profit on this one.
That line just made no sense to me. Bieber hasn’t gone under 8 K’s yet in any start, analytics were predicting 10.5 K’s, and the price was below 130. It’s rare to see a line that jumps off the page like that.
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Wait, what? Did Abreu just hit another HR?????
More fun to be a Sox fan right now that it has been in a loooooong time.
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I know injuries, weird season, but I didn’t think this Sox team would suck, and so far they do.
Anderson, Moncada, Grandal, Abreu, Mazara combined 0-25 in today’s doubleheader.
Mazara and Encarnacion can both leave town right now as far as I’m concerned.
What a difference a week makes.
Don't love the fact that the offense is entirely reliant on the long ball, though it is a lineup built to do just that. This is a fun team right now.
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What a difference a week makes.
Don't love the fact that the offense is entirely reliant on the long ball, though it is a lineup built to do just that. This is a fun team right now.
They've scored 54 runs in their last 54 innings. Keep hitting dingers.
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Giolito no hits Pirates, Ks 13 and throws only 101 pitches. Baseball is fun on the Southside for the first time in a lot of years!
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Giolito no hits Pirates, Ks 13 and throws only 101 pitches. Baseball is fun on the Southside for the first time in a lot of years!
Wow. What an outing. TA made a great play and that last one by Engel was a beauty. Great game.
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I understand the cardboard fans followed custom and did not talk about it so as not to jinx him.. 😁
In later years many fans will claim they were there.
Seriously, great job by Giolito.
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What a difference a week makes.
Don't love the fact that the offense is entirely reliant on the long ball, though it is a lineup built to do just that. This is a fun team right now.
Indeed, that day I posted this, they were a dead a$$ team that day against the Cardinals in both games.
The no hitter was tense and fun to watch, and the one thing baseball always has had is that sense of history can happen on any night. After Giolito got the first out in the 6th, I started thinking "this is happening". Every Pirate at bat then becomes intense, and the texts of "you watching this?" are happening. It had the icing of being one of the most dominant pitching performances in Sox history.
Side note - I love the homers, but last night was also nice to see them win a game without being reliant on homers to win.
Their run differential is great, their half way home at 18 wins. Overall, the Tigers and Royals have been better than expected (still not great teams), but the Sox have taken care of business against them. 12 of their next 15 games come against the Tigers/Royals/Pirates (sandwiched by a 3 game set with the Twins).
Lot to be excited about.
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Sounds like the Brewers may be joining the Bucks in boycotting tonight's game? Good for them if so.
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Dodgers/Giants have decided not to play tonight.
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Brewers should just boycott the rest of their season, hey?
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Lots of Brewer/Sox trade chatter out there.
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Lots of Brewer/Sox trade chatter out there.
What have you heard, Dish?
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What have you heard, Dish?
Could be a combo or just one of Woodruff/Anderson/Hader. From the Sox side, some combo of Kopech, Vaughn, Dunning, Stiever.
Personally, I don’t think either side will get to either Woodruff or Hader, but I could see Anderson for Adolfo (who I’ve always liked).
I think Vaughn is going to be an elite hitter. I’d be torn on a Vaughn/Dunning for Hader trade (Sox would probably need a lower level prospect there too).
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Could be a combo or just one of Woodruff/Anderson/Hader. From the Sox side, some combo of Kopech, Vaughn, Dunning, Stiever.
Personally, I don’t think either side will get to either Woodruff or Hader, but I could see Anderson for Adolfo (who I’ve always liked).
I think Vaughn is going to be an elite hitter. I’d be torn on a Vaughn/Dunning for Hader trade (Sox would probably need a lower level prospect there too).
Hader I can see but I’ll be shocked if they move Woodruff
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Hader I can see but I’ll be shocked if they move Woodruff
Yea. If Hader is going to be used as he has been, I’m getting on board with a trade. I don’t see why they’d trade Woodruff.
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Yea. If Hader is going to be used as he has been, I’m getting on board with a trade. I don’t see why they’d trade Woodruff.
I think Woody and Yelich are about the only two they won't deal.
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Lots of Brewer/Sox trade chatter out there.
Saw this tweet from yesterday.
https://twitter.com/regionrat14/status/1299737716259729413?s=21
I just can’t see a homegrown pitcher like Woodruff with as much control that he has be someone the Brewers trade. Unless it’s part of a package for an already elite MLB starter.
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Saw this tweet from yesterday.
https://twitter.com/regionrat14/status/1299737716259729413?s=21
I just can’t see a homegrown pitcher like Woodruff with as much control that he has be someone the Brewers trade. Unless it’s part of a package for an already elite MLB starter.
It’s a tweet from a Sox season ticket holder. Who’s apparently in fantasy land the Brewers will relinquish an all star closer they control for three more seasons, and a starter they control four more seasons. All you need to know. I can’t imagine the package Stearns would want back for both. One exec said he wants a ridiculous return for Hader alone. Which it should be. No hurry to move either guy unless a ton is coming back.
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It’s a tweet from a Sox season ticket holder. Who’s apparently in fantasy land the Brewers will relinquish an all star closer they control for three more seasons, and a starter they control four more seasons. All you need to know. I can’t imagine the package Stearns would want back for both. One exec said he wants a ridiculous return for Hader alone. Which it should be. No hurry to move either guy unless a ton is coming back.
Kopech and Vaughn are two top 25 MLB prospects, it’s not like it’s that ridiculous. I don’t think it’ll happen, but some level setting here.
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Sox and Cleveland talking about a deal centered around Mike Clevinger. Suggestion is Cleveland is looking for power-hitting outfielders, but I can't imagine who the Sox would give up that fits that bill. Obviously not Eloy or Robert, and I don't imagine anyone would want Mazzara right now.
Edit: Bob Nightengale (so take it fwiw) is reporting the deal may involve Engel and Kopech as Cleveland's return.
Perhaps Clevinger's dumbassery ends up helping the White Sox.
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I would very much like to keep Dane Dunning. There’s zero reason for him not to throw every fifth day. Even if he only goes five innings each outing, he’s got stuff.
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Edit: Bob Nightengale (so take it fwiw) is reporting the deal may involve Engel and Kopech as Cleveland's return.
Perhaps Clevinger's dumbassery ends up helping the White Sox.
CWS should take that deal in a nano-second.
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On his 39th Birthday, in Yadier Molina's 2,000th game, Adam Wainwright throws a 9 inning 4 hit Complete Game for his 165th win.
And, they mask up immediately for post game. Recently Wainwright had the following thoughtful words below about supporting Black Lives:
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Clevinger goes to SD.
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Clevinger goes to SD.
Source?
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Padres beat writer:
@sdutKevinAcee: So Mike Clevinger will be traded by the Indians. But the Padres don’t have a deal done yet. Crazy time.
This one will cost them, should it make it across finish line.
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Source?
Preller. We made a deal that now he has to check in with me about every trade after the Tatis debacle.
Apparently the gun was jumped a little on the whole Padres deal. Seems like they are still a likely destination though.
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Ok I gave Preller the OK. Now Clevinger is a Padre.
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Indians must really hate Clevinger. Any post-season where you are throwing Bieber, Clevinger, and Carrasco is a series you have a very good chance of winning.
Long-term though, it could work out well. Just head scratching to give up a chance when it is right in front of you. The perils of being a small market team, I guess. Always looking to build for the future.
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Indians must really hate Clevinger. Any post-season where you are throwing Bieber, Clevinger, and Carrasco is a series you have a very good chance of winning.
Long-term though, it could work out well. Just head scratching to give up a chance when it is right in front of you. The perils of being a small market team, I guess. Always looking to build for the future.
He became persona non grata with his shenanigans this year. And they still have Bieber, Carrasco, Civale, Plesac and that kid (currently pitching in relief) who strikes out guys at an astronomical rate. They’ve now traded Bauer, Kluber and Clevinger in the last two years and still have a good staff. Seems like the organization is pretty good at producing pitchers.
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Indians must really hate Clevinger. Any post-season where you are throwing Bieber, Clevinger, and Carrasco is a series you have a very good chance of winning.
Long-term though, it could work out well. Just head scratching to give up a chance when it is right in front of you. The perils of being a small market team, I guess. Always looking to build for the future.
The Indians are good, but they arent a top 3 team in the AL this year despite this hot streatch (Rays, White Sox, As imo), argument could be made they arent even top 5 (Twins, Yankees). Clevinger is 29 on an EXTREMELY team friendly deal. This was the first year he made 7 figures. He's very good when hes on, but I don't know if he has top 2 ace stuff. So they don't want to pay him the $15MM or whatnot he'll probably want, especially with his off the field BS this year. So they get a really nice haul for him. Its good business IMO
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Albert Pujols passed George Brett yesterday for 6th all time in Doubles with 666. He is four away from top 5 all by himself. He is also two Home Runs away from top 5 all by himself.
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The Indians are good, but they arent a top 3 team in the AL this year despite this hot streatch (Rays, White Sox, As imo), argument could be made they arent even top 5 (Twins, Yankees). Clevinger is 29 on an EXTREMELY team friendly deal. This was the first year he made 7 figures. He's very good when hes on, but I don't know if he has top 2 ace stuff. So they don't want to pay him the $15MM or whatnot he'll probably want, especially with his off the field BS this year. So they get a really nice haul for him. Its good business IMO
You’re not wrong. There are better teams. But the trio of Clevinger, Bieber, and Carracci/Plesac is good enough to get to the WS. Think what Scherzer/Streasburg did last year.
But I still might have pulled the trigger if I was Cleveland. Got a couple quality guys for the future.
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I think my favorite deals today had to be Miami picking up a new best player on an affordable deal but then promptly trading away their previous best player on an affordable deal.
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I think my favorite deals today had to be Miami picking up a new best player on an affordable deal but then promptly trading away their previous best player on an affordable deal.
Didn't think about it that way. Hilarious.
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If there wasn’t that limestone in straight away center at Target Field, that homer Luis Robert absolutely demolished may have gone 500’.
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If there wasn’t that limestone in straight away center at Target Field, that homer Luis Robert absolutely demolished may have gone 500’.
Crushed.
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Albert Pujols passed George Brett yesterday for 6th all time in Doubles with 666. He is four away from top 5 all by himself. He is also two Home Runs away from top 5 all by himself.
One of the greatest of all time, now (and for some time) not even a replacement level player. Good that he’s on a terrible team going nowhere - his subpar play can’t really hurt them. He’s on the perfect team to limp after a few more milestones.
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One of the greatest of all time, now (and for some time) not even a replacement level player. Good that he’s on a terrible team going nowhere - his subpar play can’t really hurt them. He’s on the perfect team to limp after a few more milestones.
One of the game's best, he's had bad plantar fasciitis since his later Cardinals years. He has one more year on his contract next year. He is finishing out his career end milestones. He's also now 3rd all time in RBI's.
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One of the game's best, he's had bad plantar fasciitis since his later Cardinals years. He has one more year on his contract next year. He is finishing out his career end milestones. He's also now 3rd all time in RBI's.
As I said, a once great player. But unless a major league team doesn’t care about winning he doesn’t belong on a roster. He’s a sub replacement player who hurts his team.
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Luis Robert is a legit MVP candidate, this season. What a clutch at bat.
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As I said, a once great player. But unless a major league team doesn’t care about winning he doesn’t belong on a roster. He’s a sub replacement player who hurts his team.
As was the case the final years of many all time greats, Mays, Aaron, Mantle etc...He isn't expected to be great now. I posted about his milestones. He'll likely finish out his contract next season and retire.
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Luis Robert is a legit MVP candidate, this season. What a clutch at bat.
He is something else. Just unreal. But right now, I'd say he is 2nd at best (maybe 3rd), on the Sox in terms of MVP stuff. The old man is just killing it, and had the biggest hit of the game. This offense is ridiculous. So fun. A comeback win against the Twins seemed completely unthinkable for so long.
In case you want to see a man kill a baseball...
https://www.mlb.com/gameday/white-sox-vs-twins/2020/08/31/631247#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=videos,game=631247
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As was the case the final years of many all time greats, Mays, Aaron, Mantle etc...He isn't expected to be great now. I posted about his milestones. He'll likely finish out his contract next season and retire.
In the meantime, another year of prime Mike Trout lands in the crapper.
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In the meantime, another year of prime Mike Trout lands in the crapper.
The Angels have been absolutely brutal with pitching. A complete wasteland. Such a shame.
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In the meantime, another year of prime Mike Trout lands in the crapper.
That's more of a conversation for Arte Moreno, and perhaps, Mike Trout.
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As was the case the final years of many all time greats, Mays, Aaron, Mantle etc...He isn't expected to be great now. I posted about his milestones. He'll likely finish out his contract next season and retire.
Yes, Pujols isn’t the first aging superstar to play out the string for a payday. But his record for futility plus cost is historic. His WAR for the past 4 years is as follows: 2017 = minus 1.9, 2018 = .8, 2019 =.5, 2020 = 0. So for negative .6 WAR the last 3+ years the Angels have paid 95 million. Next year another 30 million will go down the sinkhole and the chances of him contributing much are remote. The only good news? They saved 18 million or so because this year’s season was cut short. Great guy, once great player, now a big albatross around the franchise’s neck.
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Yes, Pujols isn’t the first aging superstar to play out the string for a payday. But his record for futility plus cost is historic. His WAR for the past 4 years is as follows: 2017 = minus 1.9, 2018 = .8, 2019 =.5, 2020 = 0. So for negative .6 WAR the last 3+ years the Angels have paid 95 million. Next year another 30 million will go down the sinkhole and the chances of him contributing much are remote. The only good news? They saved 18 million or so because this year’s season was cut short. Great guy, once great player, now a big albatross around the franchise’s neck.
Again, I posted some of his historic milestones as they are happening right now this week. It’s a 20 year career.
I don’t see Arte Moreno anywhere in your repeated posts. He’s the owner. It’s his spending. He writes the checks. His people make the contracts. Pujols is the player, the employee. Your posts seem oddly misplaced towards the player on a long term contract, and not the owner as well as management.
Fun fact: Mike Trout will be on the plus side of 40 when his contract ends with the Angels as well.
Like it or not, often times in sports, contracts and $ are often about what a player has already done (among other things) and not just about what they are going to do. If players such as Pujols (who was vastly underpaid vs the market throughout his career) can get fair market value, good for him. If Mike Trout can get $430 Million and have a contract into his 40's from one of the Billionaire owners, good for him. They are the talent.
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Again, I posted some of his historic milestones as they are happening right now this week. It’s a 20 year career.
I don’t see Arte Moreno anywhere in your repeated posts. He’s the owner. It’s his spending. He writes the checks. His people make the contracts. Pujols is the player, the employee. Your posts seem oddly misplaced towards the player on a long term contract, and not the owner as well as management.
Fun fact: Mike Trout will be on the plus side of 40 when his contract ends with the Angels as well.
Like it or not, often times in sports, contracts and $ are often about what a player has already done (among other things) and not just about what they are going to do. If players such as Pujols (who was vastly underpaid vs the market throughout his career) can get fair market value, good for him. If Mike Trout can get $430 Million and have a contract into his 40's from one of the Billionaire owners, good for him. They are the talent.
It seems to me the best teams are the ones who avoid making those big contract mistakes.
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It seems to me the best teams are the ones who avoid making those big contract mistakes.
Multiple things here:
1) My post(s) were about an individual player's real time career milestones. They weren't about how does this affect the 2020 Angels roster. They were about the near the end of a 20 year career of an individual player. My post was not about constructing the Angels roster. We of course could have a separate thread on that over the years alone. Mentioning Pujols is about to be top 5 in Home Runs, Doubles, is top 3 RBI's, top 15 and climbing in hits etc..isn't about those other things. You and Lenny seem more concerned about that in your posts than Pujols' achievements. I am not.
2) Sure it's always better and helpful to avoid big contract mistakes. Some teams can and do simply spend even more money to amend that or those mistakes. Others can't or won't. That varies. Some also do it for short term gain/winning. Pujols' former team is well known for not making big contract mistakes too often. And despite what they like to appear to be, they aren't little sisters of the poor either. They have recently been among the most profitable team in baseball. Is that the goal or is winning the goal. Both is nice, but as a fan I'll take winning first. These sre Billionaires after all His former team is roughly top 10 in spending. Good enough to compete most years, but no desire to outspend most of the time either. Yankeess fans and Dodgers fans etc...aren't all that concerned with "Value" etc as they are success and winning with or without value.
3) How many people do you know including yourself, have gone to their employers and said, you know what, I am overpaid, please pay me less?
Pujols' contract doesn't have anything to do with my post. The Angels have both the money and wherewithal to overcome that. And finally "Bad Contracts" are about ownership and management, not the player.
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Pujols' contract doesn't have anything to do with my post. The Angels have both the money and wherewithal to overcome that. And finally "Bad Contracts" are about ownership and management, not the player.
Oh I agree. I was commenting on your sentence "Like it or not, often times in sports, contracts and $ are often about what a player has already done (among other things) and not just about what they are going to do."
I was simply saying the best teams usually avoid this mistake.
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Oh I agree. I was commenting on your sentence "Like it or not, often times in sports, contracts and $ are often about what a player has already done (among other things) and not just about what they are going to do."
I was simply saying the best teams usually avoid this mistake.
We can take the Pujols example if you'd like. Albert signed a 7 year $100 Million deal with the Cardinals in 2004. It was a very team friendly contract. As he neared his next contract, two World Series Titles later, several playoffs and dominant regular seasons etc...he wasn't close to being one of the game's higher paid players during that time.
Danny Lozano was his agent. And unlike a Scott Boras, whom the Cardinals have had a good working relationship with for several players, they didn't as much with Lozano. Lozano was in Albert's ear to get a top of the league deal.
The Cardinals, well aware of Pujols' team friendly value over the years were prepared to give him decent/good money but not top of the game type money at that 2011/2012 time. Over the years there has often been a running joke called The Home Team Discount, meaning several players were willing to take a little less money over the years to play in STL because the teams won a lot and were often good. (In today's game, while you still see The Home Team Discount, fair market value decisions have vastly increased with Stl players as they would elsewhere)
The longer negotiations went, the more Lozano influenced, and there is often that one team or those few teams seeking to make a splash. At the time Miami and Anaheim were those teams.
It's a give and a take in some situations, instead if just letting someone walk.....Pujols an iconic franchise player the team wanted to keep for a variety of reasons....meeting in the middle seemed plausible and perhaps ideal but the Cardinals had their hard line number limit and Anaheim vastly surpassed that. The Cardinals were well aware of his Plantar Fascitis issues. They knew their offer was overpaying for a current/future contract, but, part of the offer was a reward for past accomplishments. I believe many fans are conditioned to think that all contracts are about future performance. They aren't. This of course is not Pujols specific nor baseball specific.
So, he is wrapping up an all timer career. He has a long term post career $ contract with Anaheim as well, but I'm sure he'll figure something out to be associated with the Cardinals, get his image on the outfield wall, number retired, statue etc...even though the Cardinals are pretty strict on who gets those. (There are about half a dozen MLB Hall of Famer players who played most of their career in Stl who have still not yet had those honors yet along with those that have)
So I don't believe it is a mistake to reward past under valued performance in contracts sometimes. It isn't always about having all of the best team friendly deals. It's more of a give and take, meet in the middle thing sometimes
Some fans get caught up in Value and the business side of it. Often times, they are fans of smaller and mid market teams. I really don't care if Billionaires have to cough up more money for mistakes. It's not as if they pass the savings down to fans and their game attending experience costs as well as tv viewing costs.
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Again, I posted some of his historic milestones as they are happening right now this week. It’s a 20 year career.
I don’t see Arte Moreno anywhere in your repeated posts. He’s the owner. It’s his spending. He writes the checks. His people make the contracts. Pujols is the player, the employee. Your posts seem oddly misplaced towards the player on a long term contract, and not the owner as well as management.
Fun fact: Mike Trout will be on the plus side of 40 when his contract ends with the Angels as well.
Like it or not, often times in sports, contracts and $ are often about what a player has already done (among other things) and not just about what they are going to do. If players such as Pujols (who was vastly underpaid vs the market throughout his career) can get fair market value, good for him. If Mike Trout can get $430 Million and have a contract into his 40's from one of the Billionaire owners, good for him. They are the talent.
Mantle was a great hitter until the day he retired (145 OPS+ his last season despite the .237 average. Pujols hasn't done that well in any season with the Angels). Mays only one season 1973 where he was subpar, and Aaron only his last two years in Milwaukee and even then, he was a league average hitter. Pujols has been a well below average hitter for four years now.
Big difference is the long term contracts today, as you say. I certainly don't begrudge Pujols one penny of the money. The Cardinals were unpopular but shrewd in not re-signing him. They got his best for relatively low money, with the Angels paying a fortune for his decline.
In addition to his milestones, he did dip below a .300 career average this past year. Mantle always lamented that his last year or so cost him his career .300 average. But people don't care about average now like they used to.
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Hall of Famer Tom Seaver dead at 75. RIP
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Hall of Famer Tom Seaver dead at 75. RIP
Oh no. I was at his pre-300th win luncheon in Chicago.
The game was against the Yankees. A young don mattingly snuck out as soon as lunch was over due to lack of interest!
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Tom Seaver passes away at age 75.
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He has had medical issues for the last few years.
Alzheimer’s, I believe.
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He has had medical issues for the last few years.
Alzheimer’s, I believe.
MLB reported he died of complications of COVID-19. He announced last year that he had Lewy Body Dementia.
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One of the all time greats. Another childhood hero.
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Hall of Famer Tom Seaver dead at 75. RIP
Great, great pitcher. I will always remember that dirty knee from his full extension on release.
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He announced last year that he had Lewy Body Dementia.
Robin Williams struggled with that if I remember correctly
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Robin Williams struggled with that if I remember correctly
Yes he did.
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Oh no. I was at his pre-300th win luncheon in Chicago.
The game was against the Yankees. A young don mattingly snuck out as soon as lunch was over due to lack of interest!
I decided to go back and take a look at this, and it had to be a POST-300th win celebration luncheon for Yankees to be present (we were in Chicago). It must have been when they came to town the next week.
It was such an odd event with a handful of young Sox and Yankees attending. I distinctly remember a nun bringing up a celebratory cake and cutting it for Tom. Then they declared the lunch over and everyone rushed forward for autographs.
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Devin Williams has a 7.75 Strikeout/Hit ratio. No pitcher in MLB history - even in as few innings as Devin has pitched has ever even come anywhere close to that.
except,...
What makes it interesting is that there is a guy this year who has been so dominant that his ratio is "Infinity". Because he has faced 47 batters without giving up a single base hit.
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Devin Williams has a 7.75 Strikeout/Hit ratio. No pitcher in MLB history - even in as few innings as Devin has pitched has ever even come anywhere close to that.
except,...
What makes it interesting is that there is a guy this year who has been so dominant that his ratio is "Infinity". Because he has faced 47 batters without giving up a single base hit.
Yet still managed to blow a save last weekend.
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Yet still managed to blow a save last weekend.
He blew a save? What a bum.
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Blowing a save, when you start an inning, without giving up a hit is quite an accomplishment.
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Blowing a save, when you start an inning, without giving up a hit is quite an accomplishment.
Tell that to Andy Hawkins!
For those that don't know...everyone... Andy Hawkins thew 8 no hit innings on the road, and lost the game. He doesn't even get credit for a no hitter as he only threw 8 innings, as there was no bottom of the 9th. That sucks.
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Brewers designate Justin Smoak. So he'll have gotten paid $39,682 per plate appearance. Nice work.
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Brewers designate Justin Smoak. So he'll have gotten paid $39,682 per plate appearance. Nice work.
Davis Stearns offseason is a big fat F. And I like Stearns very much. I hope this was an aberration.
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Davis Stearns offseason is a big fat F. And I like Stearns very much. I hope this was an aberration.
Smoak was a failure. Way too early to judge Garcia, Narvaez, etc.
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The strategy of signing a bunch of replacement level players to form composite characters who were more than the sum of their parts didn't pan out in this weird season. Over a full season, where depth is more important, etc., who knows. But it was a fine year to take a crack at it, and certainly better than making big salary commitments the season before covid and on the eve of labor strife.
I liked the Smoak signing at the time - he profiled well for Miller Park. But yeah that didn't work out. I'm pretty bearish on Narvaez because he's never made good contact and he isn't a good pitch framer. But someone has to catch, so meh. I'm going to withhold judgment on Lindblom - I think there could be something there, and even if its as a multi inning reliever, the money is right.
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Smoak was a failure. Way too early to judge Garcia, Narvaez, etc.
As a Sox fan, I told myself it was too early to make a call on Garcia for a couple seasons. He is tantalizing with the flashes he shows, but he just never really fails to disappoint.
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As a Sox fan, I told myself it was too early to make a call on Garcia for a couple seasons. He is tantalizing with the flashes he shows, but he just never really fails to disappoint.
Sounds a bit like Carlos Gomez before he put it together.
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Sounds a bit like Carlos Gomez before he put it together.
Two of Garcia's last 3 seasons have been good/excellent as well. It's not like he hasn't put it together for long stretches. He was a great player in 2017 and a good one in 2019.
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Two of Garcia's last 3 seasons have been good/excellent as well. It's not like he hasn't put it together for long stretches. He was a great player in 2017 and a good one in 2019.
Avi is just a guy.
9 years in the league. 8.0 WAR
Blah
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Smoak was a failure. Way too early to judge Garcia, Narvaez, etc.
Lauer, Lindstrom, Holt.
Terrible off-season.
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Lauer, Lindstrom, Holt.
Terrible off-season.
I feel like it’s tough to judge since the strategy is clearly built for 162 games. Stearns goes looking to accumulate a bunch of guys that could have bounce back years, and hope a few do and stick with them. For those that struggle, it’s relatively easy to move on.
Unfortunately, with the shortened season, it’s tough to make it through that depth to find the hot hands. Typically, the September team looks a lot different than the April team in Stearns tenures.
If it were a 162 game season, we’d be only 4.5 games back at the 22% mark in the season. They are only 2 games below .500. That’s without too many guys playing well and Yelich looking pretty rough. We’d be a little worried but know there’s a lot of time left in the season.
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Avi is just a guy.
9 years in the league. 8.0 WAR
Blah
6.8 WAR the past 3 years. Not sure why his age 20-25 seasons have any impact on his age 29 performance. If he performs like he did in 2017 or 2019 he'll be a great add. No real reason to believe he won't. It's been less than 40 games.
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Lauer, Lindstrom, Holt.
Terrible off-season.
Agreed on Holt. Not going to judge two pitchers (one of whom is injured) after a combined 8 starts.
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6.8 WAR the past 3 years. Not sure why his age 20-25 seasons have any impact on his age 29 performance. If he performs like he did in 2017 or 2019 he'll be a great add. No real reason to believe he won't. It's been less than 40 games.
I do enjoy that his ages 20-25 season shouldn't be considered, but his age 26 season is reason for hope.
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Smoak was a failure.
Well, you know the old saying:
Where there’s Smoak, there’s failure.
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I do enjoy that his ages 20-25 season shouldn't be considered, but his age 26 season is reason for hope.
If you're looking at an employee would you judge his performance based on his first few years or his most recent years of performance? Which one is more indicative of future performance?
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If you're looking at an employee would you judge his performance based on his first few years or his most recent years of performance? Which one is more indicative of future performance?
I think performance is much more linear in most normal jobs. It isn't in baseball. As a Brewer fan, I hope Avi does well. In 6 weeks (yes, a small sample size), I have seen no indication of it happening. Many guys struggle when moving to a new team - I'm hoping that is the issue and he comes around.
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Hall of Fame Human Being, Lou Brock, has passed away today at 81.
He was pretty good at baseball too.
3,023 hits
938 Stolen Bases
3 World Series, 2 Titles
MLB Hall of Fame
In 21 World Series Games:
.391 Avg
1.079 OPS
4 HR
13 RBI
14 Stolen Bases
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Thank you for not sliding into home in the 68 World Series.
Like Tom Seaver, another childhood hero.
Poop.
RIP.
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Heard mentioned on radio that Tom Seaver was the pitcher Lou Brock had the most at bats at in his career and the same for Seaver, Lou Brock was the batter he faced the most in his career.
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Someone tell the brewers they don't get to amortize their runs over the rest of the week
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Someone tell the brewers they don't get to amortize their runs over the rest of the week
Brewers win by 19, and aren't even the biggest win of the day.
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Brewers win by 19, and aren't even the biggest win of the day.
Wonder what the best offer for Hader at the deadline was.
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THA*
Trade His Ass
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THA*
Trade His Ass
They should have. I don't think relievers like Hader have a long shelf life.
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They should have. I don't think relievers like Hader have a long shelf life.
Overreact much to one outing? Because he hadn’t given up a HR until last night, his era was 2.13 going in, and he had blown only one other save. For crying out loud.
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Overreact much to one outing? Because he hadn’t given up a HR until last night, his era was 2.13 going in, and he had blown only one other save. For crying out loud.
Been saying it for awhile.
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Wanting to sell high on relievers is a philosophy independent of any single outing.
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Wanting to sell high on relievers is a philosophy independent of any single outing.
Yep.
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Brewers aren't going anywhere with or without Hader. They're devoid of talent with a pathetic farm system, hey?
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Wanting to sell high on relievers is a philosophy independent of any single outing.
Of course. And for a mediocre team like the Brewers, a guy like Hader is the perfect trade chip. At the deadline his ERA was 0.00 and he hadn’t given up a hit (let alone a run) all year. His value was never going to be higher. Now his ERA is 4.61 and he’s blown 2 saves in his lest 3 outings. I’m sure he’ll bring a nice haul in the off season, but it won’t be higher than it was 2 weeks ago. Injury or ineffectiveness could make it much lower.
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If they are going to use him only as a 9th inning closer for 3 outs, he’s worth more in a trade than on the team in my opinion. I’d think differently if he was being used for multiple innings and being used in the highest leverage moments regardless of inning.
We went to the playoffs with Solomon Torres as our closet for goodness sake. Those guys can be found. Plus, you factor in the randomness of relievers performance, and it would be best to sell high.
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After moving into 5th place all by himself on the all time MLB Doubles list last night, Albert Pujols ties Willie Mays for 5th place all time in MLB Home Runs with 660.
https://twitter.com/FabianArdaya/status/1305259238457917441?s=09
He is also top 5 in RBI's and Total Bases.
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I know injuries, weird season, but I didn’t think this Sox team would suck, and so far they do.
Anderson, Moncada, Grandal, Abreu, Mazara combined 0-25 in today’s doubleheader.
Mazara and Encarnacion can both leave town right now as far as I’m concerned.
White Sox are 22-5 since that bad doubleheader.
I still am behind Mazara and Encarnacion leaving town.
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White Sox are 22-5 since that bad doubleheader.
I still am behind Mazara and Encarnacion leaving town.
Could you do a post on how bad my life sucks?
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After moving into 5th place all by himself on the all time MLB Doubles list last night, Albert Pujols ties Willie Mays for 5th place all time in MLB Home Runs with 660.
https://twitter.com/FabianArdaya/status/1305259238457917441?s=09
He is also top 5 in RBI's and Total Bases.
The only thing more depressing than watching a once great player stumbling his way towards “landmarks” is listening to a fanboy who’s obsessed by the sad spectacle.
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White Sox are 22-5 since that bad doubleheader.
I still am behind Mazara and Encarnacion leaving town.
You'll probably get your wish on the latter, as Andrew Vaughn is coming for his spot.
I'd guess a Mazara/Engel platoon is here for at least another year.
Anyhow, if Kopech becomes who we think he'll become, a starting rotation of Giolito, Keuchel, Cease, Dunning and Kopech is going to be mighty tough for the next few years.
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The only thing more depressing than watching a once great player stumbling his way towards “landmarks” is listening to a fanboy who’s obsessed by the sad spectacle.
Your psychological projection is showing. For someone not interested in the topic, your posting about it half a dozen times recently in this thread is an interesting way to show it.
Speaking of Albert Pujols:
In MLB news, Yadier Molina is 10 hits away from becoming the 8th catcher in MLB history to reach 2,000 hits. 👍
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Your psychological projection is showing. For someone not interested in the topic, your posting about it half a dozen times recently in this thread is an interesting way to show it.
Speaking of Albert Pujols:
In MLB news, Yadier Molina is 10 hits away from becoming the 8th catcher in MLB history to reach 2,000 hits. 👍
Molina is a baby that doesnt understand that if you put your mitt over home plate, it's going to get hit by a bat.
His temper tantrum last night was so precious.
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Parochial, Povincial, Tribalist Identity Fragility at MU Scoop is alive and well with some. Lol. Amazing. Sad, but, amazing. There's help for that. 👍
Perhaps the few of you can list all of your favorite teams, schools, geographies, food, etc...so everyone else can simply post from the tribal list to make things easier for you.
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Parochial, Povincial, Tribalist Identity Fragility at MU Scoop is alive and well with some. Lol. Amazing. Sad, but, amazing. There's help for that. 👍
Perhaps the few of you can list all of your favorite teams, schools, geographies, food, etc...so everyone else can simply post from the tribal list to make things easier for you.
I kind of thought everyone outside of St. Louis thought Molina was a whiner. Maybe he just has his blow ups in Milwaukee as he seems to be good for one or two a season.
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I kind of thought everyone outside of St. Louis thought Molina was a whiner. Maybe he just has his blow ups in Milwaukee as he seems to be good for one or two a season.
I do appreciate you illustrating my point, right on time. Thank you.
No actually, when I lived in NYC or L.A. or wherever else USA or World, it strangely doesn’t come up.
I’ve lived in some places, I’ve been a lot of places, there will always be good, bad, indifferent fans, and/or aspects to a team, a sport, a geography, etc...no geography is excluded in the world.
I don’t really know the rooting interests or geographies of most people who post here, which is amusing if I somehow post something that triggers someone. But I’m sure if I guessed the same frequently triggered people here, are probably Cubs or Brewers fans or something like that. WI/IL.....as 3/4 of Marquette is just that. And with that, it is often the same 20% of those people doing the 80% of being triggered. Most others seem to enjoy life.
Every market has these types of people. Although these are among the few locales that seem to do it more with St. Louis. It makes sense in baseball for example, they have won a lot since the 1800’s. Had they been bad a lot. it would probably be met with indifference. And, the Brewers ones seem to have only been around since the Brewers switched leagues. Funny how that works. I certainly get it.
If you actually read the content of my posts, most are matter of fact laid back, without any emotion, regardless of topic unless it is typed supportive of something Marquette related more than likely.
The other stuff just isn’t my thing. I don't even dislike Notre Dame or Madison, or the Cubs or Brewers, or WI or IL etc...I've had good times at all of those places. So you aren't likely to see too many negative posts from me about them.
I’m sure I’ll still post about schools, sports, geographies, athletes, etc...that may inadvertently somehow trigger some select few. That probably says more about those people. There’s a big World out there to enjoy.
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So what does this have to do with Yadi acting like a little bitch?
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Say what you want about Yadi. He is the best all around catcher since Ivan Rodriguez. Who was a cheater. Before him, I don't know, Gary Carter? He has been among the best defensive catchers in baseball since his debut, and made himself a good offensive player in the process.
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So what does this have to do with Yadi being a little bitch?
Thank you for illustrating the point. 👍✌️
"Exercising my right not to walk."
-Dead Poets Society
I think it does bother the select few (there's some in every group) that I don't get triggered by these things, but again, perhaps it's more frustration that they do.
Maybe come up with some "Bitches for Yadi" Tee Shirts and raise money for the humane society. 👍
Or maybe order a Wainwright/Molina 2020 Tee shirt for charity.
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Say what you want about Yadi. He is the best all around catcher since Ivan Rodriguez. Who was a cheater. Before him, I don't know, Gary Carter? He has been among the best defensive catchers in baseball since his debut, and made himself a good offensive player in the process.
Joe Mauer, Buster Posey > Yadier Molina.
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Joe Mauer, Buster Posey > Yadier Molina.
I really hate Molina, but I really disagree.
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St Louis fan fragility. So typical.
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I really hate Molina, but I really disagree.
It's really not close.
Career WAR:
Mauer - 55.3
Posey - 41.8
Molina - 39.9
WAR7:
Mauer - 39.0 (5th all time for catchers)
Posey - 36.6 (9th all time)
Molina - 28.8 (24th all time)
WAA:
Mauer - 27.6
Posey - 25.6
Molina - 16.0
Top 10 MVP:
Mauer - 4 (1 win)
Posey - 3 (1 win)
Molina - 2 (0 wins)
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Joe Mauer, Buster Posey > Yadier Molina.
I am not all that interested in specific player comparisons. I am definitely someone that doesn't believe in "Goats" in sports etc because all players and teams can't play in all eras. Therefore, I root for whom I root and wish everyone else well.
With your post here, I believe a challenge for Mauer is he is barely in the top 150 of games caught as a catcher as he shifted positions midway through his career, and, he may keep falling down from that. Molina for example, is 6th, and he will easily be in the top 5 all time, so that really is apples to oranges. Joe Torre was also a very good player who was a catcher but shifted positions midway career. Good luck to Mauer and others.
I'll just enjoy success and entertainment. I was happy for Ted Simmons getting into the Hall of Fame recently as well as non-catcher Larry Walker.
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With your post here, I believe a challenge for Mauer is he is barely in the top 150 of games caught as a catcher as he shifted positions midway through his career.
While I disagree with the premise that games caught is important in determining the better player, i'll just note that two-thirds of Mauer's MLB starts were as a catcher. The comp to Torre - who made less than half his MLB starts as a catcher - doesn't really hold up.
If the question is which player had healthier knees, Molina wins hands down. But Mauer was still a much better player. The objective data isn't close.
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It's really not close.
Career WAR:
Mauer - 55.3
Posey - 41.8
Molina - 39.9
WAR7:
Mauer - 39.0 (5th all time for catchers)
Posey - 36.6 (9th all time)
Molina - 28.8 (24th all time)
WAA:
Mauer - 27.6
Posey - 25.6
Molina - 16.0
Top 10 MVP:
Mauer - 4 (1 win)
Posey - 3 (1 win)
Molina - 2 (0 wins)
Actually, Molina has I believe a 54.3 WAR according to Fangraphs. They added pitch framing etc...I believe you are using dated numbers from elsewhere, perhaps baseball reference?
Anyway, it is just one example of some of the things that are or are not included/measured that go into being a catcher.
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While I disagree with the premise that games caught is important in determining the better player, i'll just note that two-thirds of Mauer's MLB starts were as a catcher. The comp to Torre - who made less than half his MLB starts as a catcher - doesn't really hold up.
If the question is which player had healthier knees, Molina wins hands down. But Mauer was still a much better player. The objective data isn't close.
Games caught matters because it is much more difficult to hit playing catcher every day as opposed to a field position or DH. It matters a lot actually.
Again, I wish other players well, but I will be happy for Yadi when he enters MLB HOF. It will be well earned, just as his recent Roberto Clemente Award was well earned.
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Games caught matters because it is much more difficult to hit playing catcher every day as opposed to a field position or DH. It matters a lot actually.
Again, I wish other players well, but I will be happy for Yadi when he enters MLB HOF. It will be well earned, just as his recent Roberto Clemente Award was well earned.
Were you a catcher at the rec center at some point in time or something?
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It's really not close.
Career WAR:
Mauer - 55.3
Posey - 41.8
Molina - 39.9
WAR7:
Mauer - 39.0 (5th all time for catchers)
Posey - 36.6 (9th all time)
Molina - 28.8 (24th all time)
WAA:
Mauer - 27.6
Posey - 25.6
Molina - 16.0
Top 10 MVP:
Mauer - 4 (1 win)
Posey - 3 (1 win)
Molina - 2 (0 wins)
If you use fWAR, the numbers look different. Yadi is at 54.3, Buster at 52.7 and Mauer at 52.5. I think you also need to consider that Mauer played literally half his games at C, and the other half at 1B/DH (921 at C, 603 at 1B and 310 at DH). Not exactly an even comparison. Mauer didn't play really at all the last 5 years of his career. Posey has also played more than a season's worth of games (229) at 1B, and another 30 at DH. Yadi has a combined 49 games at those two positions. I don't think there is any doubt that playing C is far tougher on your body than playing 1B or obviously DH.
Both Mauer and Posey have had much better seasons than Yadi, again, there is no doubt there. Posey had 28.8 bWAR in a 5 year stretch. Pretty amazing. Great no doubt. I'm honestly ashamed I didn't include him in my post. Mauer too, had 28.9 bWAR in a 5 year stretch. Yadi never reached those lofty heights. That is for sure. His best bWAR stretch was 22.6. But he really stands out on defense, and fWAR looks at defense differently than bWAR.
I think there is debate between Posey and Yadi. Mauer just played too much 1B for me. Posey, at his peak was obviously the better player, really driven by being an elite offensive player, something Yadi could never claim. But even for Posey, Molina has caught about 1000 games more. I think that is quite an achievement. Though I know some like to discount longevity as a benefit in these cases. To me, it says that even though he is 37 years old, he is still capable of manning the most demanding position on the diamond day in and day out. And that means something.
Edit: haha. Other people added much of what I was trying to say. I guess I should read everything before replying.
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Were you a catcher at the rec center at some point in time or something?
I'm not quite sure what this means, but I in baseball I was a shortstop and pitcher when I played.
But one doesn't need to play baseball, to enjoy it or discuss it. Anyone and everyone is welcome. Great sport, like so many others. 👍
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If you use fWAR, the numbers look different. Yadi is at 54.3, Buster at 52.7 and Mauer at 52.5. I think you also need to consider that Mauer played literally half his games at C, and the other half at 1B/DH (921 at C, 603 at 1B and 310 at DH). Not exactly an even comparison. Mauer didn't play really at all the last 5 years of his career. Posey has also played more than a season's worth of games (229) at 1B, and another 30 at DH. Yadi has a combined 49 games at those two positions. I don't think there is any doubt that playing C is far tougher on your body than playing 1B or obviously DH.
Both Mauer and Posey have had much better seasons than Yadi, again, there is no doubt there. Posey had 28.8 bWAR in a 5 year stretch. Pretty amazing. Great no doubt. I'm honestly ashamed I didn't include him in my post. Mauer too, had 28.9 bWAR in a 5 year stretch. Yadi never reached those lofty heights. That is for sure. His best bWAR stretch was 22.6. But he really stands out on defense, and fWAR looks at defense differently than bWAR.
I think there is debate between Posey and Yadi. Mauer just played too much 1B for me. Posey, at his peak was obviously the better player, really driven by being an elite offensive player, something Yadi could never claim. But even for Posey, Molina has caught about 1000 games more. I think that is quite an achievement. Though I know some like to discount longevity as a benefit in these cases. To me, it says that even though he is 37 years old, he is still capable of manning the most demanding position on the diamond day in and day out. And that means something.
Edit: haha. Other people added much of what I was trying to say. I guess I should read everything before replying.
Excellent post, Buck.
Also, let me add that I really love Shorthoops outlook on sports.
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Excellent post, Buck.
Also, let me add that I really love Shorthoops outlook on sports.
Why thank you. Very kind. 👍✌️
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You all make fair points, but not enough to sway me (sorry, I'm sure you're broken up about that).
Especially the "games caught" argument. Again, two-thirds of Mauer's MLB starts came as a catcher. He wasn't a part-time player there. And all of his best seasons came when he playing cztcher nearly full time.
Longevity isn't meaningless, but it's a poor measure for greatness.
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You all make fair points, but not enough to sway me (sorry, I'm sure you're broken up about that).
Especially the "games caught" argument. Again, two-thirds of Mauer's MLB starts came as a catcher. He wasn't a part-time player there. And all of his best seasons came when he playing cztcher nearly full time.
Longevity isn't meaningless, but it's a poor measure for greatness.
Well, this is just factually incorrect.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mauerjo01.shtml
In the games started category, Mauer started 885 games at catcher. He started 584 at 1st and 304 at DH. That is 888 starts at non-catcher, and 885 at catcher. That doesn't seem like 2/3 to me, but maybe I'm fuzzy on math.
For the record, Molina started 1911 games at catcher. Longevity isn't everything, but Mauer started at catcher more than 1000 fewer games than Molina.
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Well, this is just factually incorrect.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mauerjo01.shtml
In the games started category, Mauer started 885 games at catcher. He started 584 at 1st and 304 at DH. That is 888 starts at non-catcher, and 885 at catcher. That doesn't seem like 2/3 to me, but maybe I'm fuzzy on math.
For the record, Molina started 1911 games at catcher. Longevity isn't everything, but Mauer started at catcher more than 1000 fewer games than Molina.
Dammit. You're correct. Not sure how I botched that. Apologies.
Still, doesn't change that Mauer was the better player and he was predominantly a catcher in his best seasons.
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Dammit. You're correct. Not sure how I botched that. Apologies.
Still, doesn't change that Mauer was the better player and he was predominantly a catcher in his best seasons.
You like who you like. Go for it. 👍
As for Molina, I think some things that some people talk about and that stand out are that he is statistically considered among the best to ever do many categories of things defensively, some of which you didn't include in some of the statistics you provided. And when combined w/his offense and other categories he statistically passes many. And, some of your other provided statistics were incorrect i.e. MVP listed below. These of course don't include some of the other aspects of managing and calling a game not included in those statistics.
Just some of them:
9 time All Star
9 Gold Gloves
2 WS Titles
Only MLB player to catch 15 straight seasons of at least 100 games a season.
5 MVP ballots, (3rd and 4th place)
2nd all time Total Zone Runs
1st, active players, over 40% runners caught stealing.
1st runners not attempting to steal
1st Catcher E.R.A.
3rd amongst peers in pitch framing.
1st all time defensive runs saved.
1st active catcher assists.
1st in pickoffs.
6th all time (and climbing) games caught.
All 17 seasons, one team.
Silver Slugger.
Will be soon, 8th Catcher ever w/ 2,000 hits all time.
.328 avg 12 RBI's in career 21 World Series Games
.312 avg in 38 career NLCS games.
Game Winning HR 9th inning Game 7 NLCS at New York. (Mets fans still discuss this)
Slashed .471/.524/.588 9 RBI's final five games for one of two World Series Titles.
Roberto Clemente Award Winner.
When you combine the totality of things in many different aspects of the game, it becomes a lot.
Not a bad career so far for the youngest Puerto Rican kid in a 3 MLB Catcher family.....the only family of 3 MLB brothers to all win World Series Rings. .....Pretty fun.
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That's a lot of arguments for people who aren't David Ross. ;D
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Been 12 long years, but nice to see the Sox playing in October again.
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Been 12 long years, but nice to see the Sox playing in October again.
Tip of the hat to Hahn.
Sale, Eaton and Quintana brought Moncada, Kopech, Giolito, Dunning, R Lopez, Jimenez and Cease.
All in to get Robert.
Signing Grandal and Keuchal.
Drafting Madrigal and Vaughn.
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Tip of the hat to Hahn.
Sale, Eaton and Quintana brought Moncada, Kopech, Giolito, Dunning, R Lopez, Jimenez and Cease.
All in to get Robert.
Signing Grandal and Keuchal.
Drafting Madrigal and Vaughn.
Hahn also signed Abreu and drafted Tim Anderson.
Now if only he hadn't traded Tatis the Younger ...
Unrelated, but just how dumb is Josh Donaldson:
A. Regular dumb
B. Very dumb
C. Extraordinarily dumb
D. Terry Bevington dumb
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Hahn also signed Abreu and drafted Tim Anderson.
Now if only he hadn't traded Tatis the Younger ...
Unrelated, but just how dumb is Josh Donaldson:
A. Regular dumb
B. Very dumb
C. Extraordinarily dumb
D. Terry Bevington dumb
Dumb with flair.
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Hahn also signed Abreu and drafted Tim Anderson.
Now if only he hadn't traded Tatis the Younger ...
Unrelated, but just how dumb is Josh Donaldson:
A. Regular dumb
B. Very dumb
C. Extraordinarily dumb
D. Terry Bevington dumb
Hahahahah!
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Hahn also signed Abreu and drafted Tim Anderson.
Now if only he hadn't traded Tatis the Younger ...
Good points on Abreu and Anderson.
Don’t know Josh Donaldson, but trading Tatis the Younger proved Bevington dumb and then some. Imagine the lineup with him at SS and Anderson in RF (or 3B with Moncada back at 2B). Would even the Dodgers have a better one?
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Is there anyone on the Blue Jays who's not the son of a former major leaguer?
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The Donaldson tantrum was silly, but I kind of loved it. Battle lines had already been drawn, he proved a point, shrug. That was a REALLY quick trigger, he was tossed before he even went back. But otherwise it didn’t phase me. Baseball needs more entertaining stuff like that.
FWIW, that was a TERRIBLE check swing strike call without even an appeal.
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The Donaldson tantrum was silly, but I kind of loved it. Battle lines had already been drawn, he proved a point, shrug. That was a REALLY quick trigger, he was tossed before he even went back. But otherwise it didn’t phase me. Baseball needs more entertaining stuff like that.
FWIW, that was a TERRIBLE check swing strike call without even an appeal.
What point did he prove, while getting kicked out of a 1 run game, in the middle of September, in a game against the team his team is chasing in the standings? Seems like a stupid time to make that point, what ever that point was.
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The Donaldson tantrum was silly, but I kind of loved it. Battle lines had already been drawn, he proved a point, shrug. That was a REALLY quick trigger, he was tossed before he even went back. But otherwise it didn’t phase me. Baseball needs more entertaining stuff like that.
FWIW, that was a TERRIBLE check swing strike call without even an appeal.
Entertainment value aside, getting thrown out intentionally - and he had to know that was the only possible outcome - in an important game against the team you're chasing in the standings is incredibly dumb and selfish.
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What point did he prove, while getting kicked out of a 1 run game, in the middle of September, in a game against the team his team is chasing in the standings? Seems like a stupid time to make that point, what ever that point was.
Also cost the team defensively: replacement dropped a foul ball and Donaldson is an elite defender who may have cut off the Abreu infield single and ended the game winning rally. Selfish. (Though it also was funny as hell)
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Obviously, I want the players to take the game seriously. Otherwise, what's the point of watching? (And I have watched a ton of baseball this year).
However, over 50% of the teams this year will make the playoffs. Teams are currently trying to position themselves to play at home--in front of no one--during a 3 game play-in series before they go to their respective bubbles.
Yes. What Donaldson did was stupid, but let's not pretend like it is really going to matter in the big scheme of things.
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Yes. What Donaldson did was stupid, but let's not pretend like it is really going to matter in the big scheme of things.
Might be the difference between opening the playoffs against Toronto/Cleveland or opening the playoffs against the Yankees.
That's not nothing.
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Sox call up Crochet. He'll be the first MLB pitcher since Mike Leake to skip the minor leagues before his MLB debut.
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Might be the difference between opening the playoffs against Toronto/Cleveland or opening the playoffs against the Yankees.
That's not nothing.
If you can only lose twice before being eliminated (regardless of regular season winning percentage), I may actually rather face the Yankees than Shane Bieber and the Indians.
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If you can only lose twice before being eliminated (regardless of regular season winning percentage), I may actually rather face the Yankees than Shane Bieber and the Indians.
Bieber isn't pitching three times in a 3-game series.
Also, I hear the Yankees have an OK #1 starter as well.
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If you can only lose twice before being eliminated (regardless of regular season winning percentage), I may actually rather face the Yankees than Shane Bieber and the Indians.
The Yankees completely own the Twins.
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Admittedly, I forgot who keeps eliminating Minnesota. I’d still much rather face Cole than Bieber this year, but maybe the Twins want nothing to do w/ NYY.
I also may be placing too much emphasis on facing an ace once; it’s just I’ve never seen a three-game playoff series and losing Game 1 seems huge. I thought there was talk of allowing higher seeds pick their opponents; it would have been interesting to see how that would’ve shook out.
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#661
https://twitter.com/mlb/status/1307154494459912193
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Admittedly, I forgot who keeps eliminating Minnesota. I’d still much rather face Cole than Bieber this year, but maybe the Twins want nothing to do w/ NYY.
I also may be placing too much emphasis on facing an ace once; it’s just I’ve never seen a three-game playoff series and losing Game 1 seems huge. I thought there was talk of allowing higher seeds pick their opponents; it would have been interesting to see how that would’ve shook out.
All things considered, I'd rather face Cleveland's very weak lineup in a series than the Yankees' ljneup.
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https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29922184/detroit-tigers-manager-ron-gardenhire-retires-effective-immediately
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MLB Released:
Turner Sports has a new 7 year MLB extension through 2028 which includes a Tuesday Night Game. Expanded playoff coverage.
Ernie Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Jimmy Rollins, Curtis Granderson in studio.
The deal is believed to be more than $3.7 Billion. It's a 65% increase.
Same playoff games with added wildcard game. Can show their MLB games on any of their platforms, apps, highlights etc...Bleacher Report.
ESPN is next up in deal extensions. Fox did theirs in 2018.
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(https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/private/t_w1024/mlb/e458yzepi3o0amsdiw38.png)
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MLB Released:
Turner Sports has a new 7 year MLB extension through 2028 which includes a Tuesday Night Game. Expanded playoff coverage.
Ernie Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Jimmy Rollins, Curtis Granderson in studio.
The deal is believed to be more than $3.7 Billion. It's a 65% increase.
Same playoff games with added wildcard game. Can show their MLB games on any of their platforms, apps, highlights etc...Bleacher Report.
ESPN is next up in deal extensions. Fox did theirs in 2018.
I wonder if that Tuesday night game will mark the end of Brian Anderson with the Brewers. Which would make me very unhappy.
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I wonder if that Tuesday night game will mark the end of Brian Anderson with the Brewers. Which would make me very unhappy.
I'd be more concerned about his increasing NBA work, especially if the NBA wants to stick with a Christmas-August schedule in the post-COVID times.
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I wonder if that Tuesday night game will mark the end of Brian Anderson with the Brewers. Which would make me very unhappy.
Just simultcast Ueck's audio instead. I don't need to listen to Rock without BA.
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Just simultcast Ueck's audio instead. I don't need to listen to Rock without BA.
Ueck has been beyond brutal this season.
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Ueck has been beyond brutal this season.
Haven’t listened in forever. Maybe his age? Back in the day, he was absolutely fantastic.
I remember one game in the mid 70s when the Brewers were getting pounded in front of probably 5000 fans. As things were winding down and he was looking for things to say he made a comment about a small group in the bleachers chanting something. Suddenly he said he could make out what they were saying: “Let us out! Let us out!“
He made you want to listen even when the team was awful.
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86 years young. Probably time to call it a career though.
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The Nats have been eliminated, so 2020 will be the 20th consecutive season without a repeated champion. Of the 20 previous WS winners:
11 missed the playoffs
2 lost in the Division Series
5 lost in the Championship Series
2 lost in the World Series (‘01 NYY; ‘09 PHI)
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Ueck has been beyond brutal this season.
I know he didnt travel to road games much, but announcung via video monitor has to be tough, especially for a geezer like Ueck.
Hell, he probably did call games over the wire like Ronald Reagan back in the day...
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For at least the last 5 years the only reason to listen to Ueck is nostalgia. Keeps you entertained with his old stories, but not good at actually calling the action on the field.
But I can’t imagine driving up north and not changing stations as you lose one to catch Ueck calling a game.
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But I can’t imagine driving up north and not changing stations as you lose one to catch Ueck calling a game.
+1
Same here.
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https://twitter.com/FSMidwest/status/1309331057829965824?s=19
Nice little week for Yadier Molina. First, he passes Johnny Bench for 8th all time in Catcher Doubles, and then becomes the 8th Catcher with 2,000 hits. Y2K.
The 9 Gold Glove 2,000 hit list is:
Johnny Bench
Ivan Rodriguez
Yadier Molina.
The Minimum 20 Defensive War and 2,000 hits list is:
Gary Carter
Ivan Rodriguez
Yadier Molina
vs his peers offense: 2,000 hits (second), 381 doubles (second), 932 RBIs (second), 910 runs created (second), 548 extra-base hits (third), 103 game-winning RBIs (third), 160 home runs (fourth) and .281 average (fourth).
vs his peers defense 2004-present, ranks first in all of the following categories: innings caught (16,640), catcher putouts (13,715), assists (987), double plays turned (121), stolen base percentage (63.4) and catcher-caught base stealers (229) Catcher ERA of 3.67.
All time: (13,715), fourth in catcher pickoffs (51), sixth in innings caught (16,640), eighth in doubles (381), 8th in hits (2,000) and 15th in RBIs (932).
His contract is up after this season. He wants to play another year or two. We'll see.
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(https://media1.tenor.com/images/7aa9d545747082fd69f7f0f1e7a54ec4/tenor.gif?itemid=6221123)
Please tell us more.
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(https://media1.tenor.com/images/7aa9d545747082fd69f7f0f1e7a54ec4/tenor.gif?itemid=6221123)
Please tell us more.
He saved a kitten in a tree on the way home from the game.
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https://twitter.com/FSMidwest/status/1309331057829965824?s=19
becomes the 8th Catcher with 2,000 hits. Y2K.
1. Iván
2. Ted Simmons
3. Fisk
4. Yogi
5. Piazza
6. Gary Carter
7. Bench
8. Jason Kendall
9. Yadi
Nobody, including Yadier Molina himself, would bother to look up the rest, but I think you were off in your first statement.
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1. Iván
2. Ted Simmons
3. Fisk
4. Yogi
5. Piazza
6. Gary Carter
7. Bench
8. Jason Kendall
9. Yadi
Nobody, including Yadier Molina himself, would bother to look up the rest, but I think you were off in your first statement.
9th, fair enough. 👍
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He saved a kitten in a tree on the way home from the game.
Not sure about that but it wouldn’t surprise me if he did. He is after all an MLB Roberto Clemente Award Winner.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlb.com/amp/news/yadier-molina-wins-2018-clemente-award-c299600082.html
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Not sure about that but it wouldn’t surprise me if he did. He is after all an MLB Roberto Clemente Award Winner.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlb.com/amp/news/yadier-molina-wins-2018-clemente-award-c299600082.html
Oh yes, the end all be all. Other recent winners include Carlos Beltran who masterminded the sign stealing gambit in Houston, David Ortiz who, while very likeable, was aggressively juicing during his time in Boston and got shot associating with known drug dealing heavyweights and has a restraining order against him by his baby mama, and noted awesome super nice guy Curt Schilling. It’s a publicity token for people that did some charity work that year.
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(https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/private/t_w1024/mlb/ohshozd5lsmohzuhyj1o.jpg)
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AL not set yet.
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How 'but dem Brewers, hey?
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Really hard to get excited about a best of three that will likely be played late at night and include no home games.
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(https://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/private/t_w1024/mlb/ucowczefgwanfkakutd7.jpg)
.483 makes the playoffs.
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Wanting my Cardinals to win it all, but if they can't here's to the Miami Marlins!!!
Probably the worst team ever to make the MLB playoffs.
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Wanting my Cardinals to win it all, but if they can't here's to the Miami Marlins!!!
Probably the worst team ever to make the MLB playoffs.
The Brewers are pretty dang bad. I mean, Orlando Arcia is leading the “regulars” (not including Vogelbach who joined mid 60 game season) in batting average (at under .260).
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At first glance on first round series prices, decent value on Marlins +160, Blue Jays +170, Cardinals +145.
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The “worst team ever to make the MLB playoffs” has to be the team that came in 4th in their division, doesn’t it?
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The “worst team ever to make the MLB playoffs” has to be the team that came in 4th in their division, doesn’t it?
I am perfectly comfortable with this years Brewers being handled that title.
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The explanded covid playoffs were probably always going to see 1-3 of the worst teams to ever make it. And I'm cool with it too. I like the "eh, lets get weird" attitude when you abbreviate your season to 1/3 of its normal length, especially in a sport like baseball where sample size is half the battle. To be fair, I'd find it less fun if I were a LAD fan that saw my historically great team get bounced by a sub .500 Brewers team after Woodruff and Burnes combine for 16 scoreless, but c'est la vie.
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Woodruff and Burnes combine for 16 scoreless, but c'est la vie.
I take it you haven’t Googled “Corbin Burnes” in the past couple of days.
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I take it you haven’t Googled “Corbin Burnes” in the past couple of days.
Uffda. I know he had an injury during Thursday's start, but I hadn't circled back on his status (superfan over here, I know). Suffice it to say though, 1 and 2 seeds won't want to be making 3-game series against the 8 and 7 seeds a permanent fixture.
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The good news is the Brewers / Dodgers game one has a 9:00 PM start time, which puts my chances of watching even one pitch at 0.0%.
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The good news is the Brewers / Dodgers game one has a 9:00 PM start time, which puts my chances of watching even one pitch at 0.0%.
Ok. They'll probably replay it during the day, the day after. You seem to have a lot of free time during businss hours, so shouldn't be an issue to watch it then.
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The good news is the Brewers / Dodgers game one has a 9:00 PM start time, which puts my chances of watching even one pitch at 0.0%.
come on sully, let your hair down a little, relive your yute and stay up late on a school night
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come on sully, let your hair down a little, relive your yute and stay up late on a school night
Dude I had to last night to watch the Pack, and have to save up my hours for next Monday night as well.
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Ta say nothin' of da fact ya gotta hit da hey late tonite two after watchin' da debait, if itz held, aina?
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Oh there is no way I'm watching the debate. My decision was made a long time ago.
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Could bee good four a laff doe, hey?
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C'mon man, ewe don't wanna bee dumb as a Rock, aina?
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So baseball playoff start today. Should be fun.
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I don’t. Which is why I never bought into this whole “I’m voting for a business man not a politician. He knows how to build successful businesses and what it takes to Make America Great Again. He’s ‘For America!’” $421M of debt and paid $750 in federal taxes the year he won the presidential election. Lol.
He’s never been “For America.” He’s always been about “For Don, and only Don.” You, and millions of other MAGAs, got conned like never before by a con man. That’s all he is. And here we are as a result. Lock him up.
Yur write. He wuzant elected to da Senate 180 yeers ago like sum udders, hey?
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Yur write. He wuzant elected to da Senate 180 yeers ago like sum udders, hey?
Wee wooda bin bedda off wit a korps den da current prez four da last 12 months hey?
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Wee wooda bin bedda off wit a korps den da current prez four da last 12 months hey?
that sounds a little...biased to me. if the incumbant don't win, you will get your corps all right
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That's fine. I'd rather have Kamala anyway.
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When's Trump throwing out a first pitch this postseason? The Tampa series would let him keep his expensive weave clean.
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So baseball playoff start today. Should be fun.
Gut feelings:
ALWC Winners: TB, NYY, MIN, OAK
NLWC Winners: SD, LAD, CIN, CHC
ALDS MIN vs OAK (MIN in 4)
ALDS TB vs NYY (NYY in 5)
NLDS LAD vs SD (LAD in 5)
NLDS CHC vs CIN (CIN in 4)
NLCS CIN vs LAD (LAD in 5)
ALCS MIN vs NYY (MIN in 7)
WS MIN vs LAD (LAD in 6)
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Gut feelings:
ALWC Winners: TB, NYY, MIN, OAK
NLWC Winners: SD, LAD, CIN, CHC
ALDS MIN vs OAK (MIN in 4)
ALDS TB vs NYY (NYY in 5)
NLDS LAD vs SD (LAD in 5)
NLDS CHC vs CIN (CIN in 4)
NLCS CIN vs LAD (LAD in 5)
ALCS MIN vs NYY (MIN in 7)
WS MIN vs LAD (LAD in 6)
If my NYYs are beating Cleveland and Tampa they are not losing to the Twins who they will forever own.
If NYYs bats don't wake up they won't be playing beyond Cleveland.
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Twins who they will forever own.
I think this is the year that changes; however, my predictions are wrong all the time.
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If my NYYs are beating Cleveland and Tampa they are not losing to the Twins who they will forever own.
If NYYs bats don't wake up they won't be playing beyond Cleveland.
Bieber vs Cole is such a great matchup.
With that said, I completely expect a 12-10 game. Hahah.
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Curt Hennig is hanging around Oakland this afternoon.
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Curt Hennig is hanging around Oakland this afternoon.
Check out Mr. Jinxy Jinxerton over here.
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Renteria is is not playoff ready.
At 95 pitches, you don’t send him back out.
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I think this is the year that changes; however, my predictions are wrong all the time.
Twins just lost their 17th consecutive playoff game. 17th!!! That’s almost impossible. Almost.
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17 straight playoff losses for the Twins. Wow.
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Lions-esque.
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Bieber vs Cole is such a great matchup.
With that said, I completely expect a 12-10 game. Hahah.
Welp. I got the 12 right. 12-10 would have at least been an intersting game.
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Renteria is is not playoff ready.
At 95 pitches, you don’t send him back out.
While I believe your main point about Ricky, honestly, I would have sent Gio back out there. He was still cruising at that point, and will have significant time before his next start. And in a 3 game series with no days off, that bullpen needs to be as fresh as it can possibly be. I think the Sox are probably planning for basically a bullpen type game for game three (if necessary), since all their possibilities for game 3 starters have completely bombed out lately.
With that said, I would have pulled him right after the walk, as you his control was obviously gone. Hopefully Keuchel can get them a solid 6 tomorrow, then the flamethrowers can come in.
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17 straight playoff losses for the Twins. Wow.
The second he got pulled off second, you knew there was ZERO chance that Altuve was getting retired with no damage there. That’s just how things go. The walk was just even more brutal
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Anybody else feeling like there's TOO much baseball with this expanded playoff/wildcard?
I'd normally tune into a lot of games, and probably will again wit the DS/CS, but for wild card I'll probably just watch the Cubs and follow scores.
Maybe they were trying to create a NCAA vibe with the mass of games, but with a 2-3 game series it's too much, IMO.
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Anybody else feeling like there's TOO much baseball with this expanded playoff/wildcard?
I'd normally tune into a lot of games, and probably will again wit the DS/CS, but for wild card I'll probably just watch the Cubs and follow scores.
Maybe they were trying to create a NCAA vibe with the mass of games, but with a 2-3 game series it's too much, IMO.
I don't think that there is too much baseball, but that may be because I can only watch a game or so per day.
I did feel like a lot of the playoff intensity was missing without fans. I didn't notice it as much during the NBA playoffs but thought the on-air product suffered during the Twins-Astros game yesterday.
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Anybody else feeling like there's TOO much baseball with this expanded playoff/wildcard?
I'd normally tune into a lot of games, and probably will again wit the DS/CS, but for wild card I'll probably just watch the Cubs and follow scores.
Maybe they were trying to create a NCAA vibe with the mass of games, but with a 2-3 game series it's too much, IMO.
I didn't get why they didn't space out the 4 games better yesterday. You could've started games at (using central time zone) noon, 2:00 (or 3 and then push the last 2 games back by an hour as well), 5:00, and 8:00. Instead I think it went something like 1:00, 2:00, 4:00, and 6:00.
I don't think that there is too much baseball, but that may be because I can only watch a game or so per day.
I did feel like a lot of the playoff intensity was missing without fans. I didn't notice it as much during the NBA playoffs but thought the on-air product suffered during the Twins-Astros game yesterday.
I didn't watch much of yesterday's games, but I do think this will be a problem for me. I find regular season baseball to be the most boring of the 3 major professional sports, but honestly the baseball Playoffs might be my favorite Playoffs in all of sports. The tension in the stadiums from first pitch to the end, and then the silence when a road team takes over a game, is awesome to me.
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Winds blowing out in Minneapolis/Chicago/Cleveland today at 20-25 mph. Wrigley and Target Field are both blowing straight out to left/center. Could be an interesting afternoon for both those games.
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Devin Williams will not be on Milwaukee's playoff roster per Jeff Passan, arm issue.
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Devin Williams will not be on Milwaukee's playoff roster per Jeff Passan, arm issue.
That's brutal for the Brewers. That dude is a K machine.
And while Bieber- Cole fell on its face, Bauer- Fried has been as good as could be.
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Twins offense is so bad.
Playing for homers simply doesnt work this time of the year.
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Devin Williams will not be on Milwaukee's playoff roster per Jeff Passan, arm issue.
Brewers have had horrendous luck with breakout pitchers having injuries at the end of the year. Nelson a few years ago. Woodruff last year. Burnes and Williams this year.
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Anybody else feeling like there's TOO much baseball with this expanded playoff/wildcard?
Yes. There should be two, non-division winners per league, who play a one-game playoff for the right to face the best team in a 5 game series.
MLB got the playoff format right IMHO, then COVID hit, and players wanted the extra playoff money. I understand why it was tweaked this season, but definitely prefer the “exclusivity” of previous postseasons.
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Anybody else feeling like there's TOO much baseball with this expanded playoff/wildcard?
I'd normally tune into a lot of games, and probably will again wit the DS/CS, but for wild card I'll probably just watch the Cubs and follow scores.
Maybe they were trying to create a NCAA vibe with the mass of games, but with a 2-3 game series it's too much, IMO.
I wouldn't like this format all the time, but I'm ebracing the covid-yness of it all. The exclusivity of the MLB playoffs is great, but it relies on the ups, downs, and need for depth during a 162 game season. In a 60 game season, we don't get any of that, so having an expanded playoffs works for me. And it creates the possibility for weirder storylines. If the Crew or Marlins or Jays or someone makes a run, that's fun. Yankees-Dodgers is great, but its a little less meaningful after 60 games than it is after 162. So what the heck, let's get weird.
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I think there are ways you could do something like this but weight it for the higher seeded team. For instance, have a two game series where the higher seed only has to win one, but the lower has to win both.
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And it creates the possibility for weirder storylines. If the Crew or Marlins or Jays or someone makes a run, that's fun. Yankees-Dodgers is great, but its a little less meaningful after 60 games than it is after 162. So what the heck, let's get weird.
How about the 29-31 Astros eliminating a division winner after only two playoff games? To me, that's not so much "weird" as it is just plain $hitty.
I know the Twins could prevent this by winning a postseason game every decade or so, but it still devalues the regular season.
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Devaluing a regular season that is about 40% of a normal regular season anyway? One that saw no fans in the stands and whose playoffs from here on out are going to be played at neutral sites?
Can't really get all that upset about that.
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Twins just lost their 17th consecutive playoff game. 17th!!! That’s almost impossible. Almost.
Make it 18. The beat goes on.
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Not that they ever had a chance but dear lord Suter. That was brutal.
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Cardinals won today!!!
;D
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Looks like another "sun-out" in Wrigley. Game is cancelled on a sunny day with a 20% chance of light rain. Pretty weird.
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Looks like another "sun-out" in Wrigley. Game is cancelled on a sunny day with a 20% chance of light rain. Pretty weird.
Embrace the quirkiness of the 2020 Playoffs.
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I wouldn't like this format all the time, but I'm ebracing the covid-yness of it all. The exclusivity of the MLB playoffs is great, but it relies on the ups, downs, and need for depth during a 162 game season. In a 60 game season, we don't get any of that, so having an expanded playoffs works for me. And it creates the possibility for weirder storylines. If the Crew or Marlins or Jays or someone makes a run, that's fun. Yankees-Dodgers is great, but its a little less meaningful after 60 games than it is after 162. So what the heck, let's get weird.
This is the way I feel about it. As a one time COVID only 60 game regular season, thing, it is fine. In conjunction with a 162 game season it is nonsense.
BY the way, I don't think the players would go for this long term, as it is more likely to depress salaries, IMO. Why get that free agent bat to get you to 95 wins when 85 is more than enough?
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Twins offense is so bad.
Playing for homers simply doesnt work this time of the year.
Even worse for the Reds for the same reason.
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Looks like another "sun-out" in Wrigley. Game is cancelled on a sunny day with a 20% chance of light rain. Pretty weird.
Hopefully it works out just as well for them as it did last time they tried it.
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Hopefully it works out just as well for them as it did last time they tried it.
No way the Cubs made this call. That's MLB all the way.
FWIW, the game would have been stopped once or twice. Nothing long, and it would have been fine, but not the same as the Milwaukee game years ago.
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No way the Cubs made this call. That's MLB all the way.
FWIW, the game would have been stopped once or twice. Nothing long, and it would have been fine, but not the same as the Milwaukee game years ago.
I’m a little surprised with Covid they wouldn’t try to get the games in. Unless the thought is it would be bad to have everyone close together and a rainout/delay keeping the game from being played. So they went extra cautious.
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This is why winner take all games suck. The game is only in the 4th inning and it's already been going on for 2 hours.
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Great season by the Sox. But spoiled a bit by how poorly they played at the end. Today's game was pretty ridiculous, and Crochet is probably going to need TJ. A disaster all around. Tons of walks and runners left on base. A competely ridiculous pitching strategy. Hopefully Ricky isn't the manager next year.
I hope the A's smash the Astros.
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Great season by the Sox. But spoiled a bit by how poorly they played at the end. Today's game was pretty ridiculous, and Crochet is probably going to need TJ. A disaster all around. Tons of walks and runners left on base. A competely ridiculous pitching strategy. Hopefully Ricky isn't the manager next year.
I hope the A's smash the Astros.
I just came here to get opinions on whether Renteria should be back next year. I see your answer before I even ask.
I agree completely. Terrible pitching decisions in games #1 and #3.
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Renteria managed that game like a 21 year old going to Vegas for the first time.
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(https://www.soxmachine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/RickysBoys_BreakignT.jpg)
Until they clinch a postseason spot. Then, they go 3-10.
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The Brewers are starting a guy who drove in a total of 0 RBI on the season in their cleanup spot for an elimination game of a Playoff series. Incredible.
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Woodruff and Kershaw both dealing.
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The Brewers are starting a guy who drove in a total of 0 RBI on the season in their cleanup spot for an elimination game of a Playoff series. Incredible.
Shockingly it didn’t work. As for Yelich, I have no idea if I’m supposed to be concerned or not going into next season.
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The Brewers are starting a guy who drove in a total of 0 RBI on the season in their cleanup spot for an elimination game of a Playoff series. Incredible.
That was couns telling sterns to get him some bats for next year.
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Shockingly it didn’t work. As for Yelich, I have no idea if I’m supposed to be concerned or not going into next season.
I’m not too worried about Yelich. This is such a weird year, I’m going to assume it’s a fluke. Especially with protocols of not watching video of at bats mid-game.
I’ll take from this season hoping the breakout of Burnes and the signing of Dan Vogelbach, our new Milwaukee hero.
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That was couns telling sterns to get him some bats for next year.
Anything has to be better than what they have. I thought it was a pretty interesting thing for Sterns to declare that he screwed up last off season... before the season was over. That ought to inspire confidence in his current players :-X
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You were hoping Cain could bounce back a bit and be a decent leadoff hitter and then you were counting on Yeli and Hiura to be studs in the middle of the lineup. You essentially got nothing out of what you expected to be your 1-3 hitters in your lineup.
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You were hoping Cain could bounce back a bit and be a decent leadoff hitter and then you were counting on Yeli and Hiura to be studs in the middle of the lineup. You essentially got nothing out of what you expected to be your 1-3 hitters in your lineup.
Exactly. The Smoak / Holt / Healy picks don't look so bad if those top 3 are in form.
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The Padres are a very, very fun team.
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It remains to be seen if he'll get more games and at bats after today, ...but with 5 hits in his first two games, Yadier Molina reached 100 hits in his first 100 playoff games last night.
100 playoff hits is 5th all time.
100 playoff games is 6th all time.
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It remains to be seen if he'll get more games and at bats after today, ...but with 5 hits in his first two games, Yadier Molina reached 100 hits in 100 his first 100 playoff games last night.
100 playoff hits is 5th all time.
100 playoff games is 6th all time.
There should be rule that this a Politics and Cardinals-free board. There is no place for Cardinals baseball talk here, it's disgusting, disturbing and goes against everything the Marquette community stands for*.
*except the passing out wine drunk behind the wheel of a car at a stoplight, that's kinda Marquetteish if it was a 1pm Saturday game vs Louisville and we won
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Brewers, Cubs, and Reds combine to score 3 runs total in 6 games.
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Kris Bryant’s last game as a Cub?
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Kris Bryant’s last game as a Cub?
100%
Curious as to what his contract is gonna look like. Guessing he joins his buddy Bryce in Philly.
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The Padres are a very, very fun team.
Tatis is so good. And so fun. As a Sox fan, it makes me want to barf.
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Bob Gibson passed away tonight after a long bout with pancreatic cancer for over a year. He was 84.
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinals-hall-of-famer-bob-gibson-dies-at-84-after-bout-with-cancer/article_90a0dff7-bee3-5a81-9eb0-91663f29fb4d.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
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Bob Gibson passed away tonight after a long bout with pancreatic cancer for over a year. He was 84.
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinals-hall-of-famer-bob-gibson-dies-at-84-after-bout-with-cancer/article_90a0dff7-bee3-5a81-9eb0-91663f29fb4d.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
An all time great.
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An all time great.
[/quote
Yep. He was a larger than life figure on and off of the field. He was particularly close with tonight's Cardinal starting pitcher Jack Flaherty. He would have been proud tonight. Immediately after finding out after a tough game, Flaherty sent this tweet:
https://twitter.com/Jack9Flaherty/status/1312226562587017218?s=19
And this was his Gibson's final advice:
https://twitter.com/hochman/status/1312232068491948032?s=19
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Cubs out ... Sox out ... Brewers out ... Reds out ... Cardinals out ... Indians out ... Twins out.
Rough first round of the playoffs for Midwest-based MLB ballclubs.
It's time to sit back and watch the Marlins win their third championship, I suppose.
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Cubs out ... Sox out ... Brewers out ... Reds out ... Cardinals out ... Indians out ... Twins out.
Rough first round of the playoffs for Midwest-based MLB ballclubs.
It's time to sit back and watch the Marlins win their third championship, I suppose.
Be great when he’s compelled to sell off his entire team as he does whenever they win a title except they have nobody of high value
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Cubs out ... Sox out ... Brewers out ... Reds out ... Cardinals out ... Indians out ... Twins out.
Rough first round of the playoffs for Midwest-based MLB ballclubs.
It's time to sit back and watch the Marlins win their third championship, I suppose.
Why not the Marlins? Smdh.
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Cubs out ... Sox out ... Brewers out ... Reds out ... Cardinals out ... Indians out ... Twins out.
Rough first round of the playoffs for Midwest-based MLB ballclubs.
It's time to sit back and watch the Marlins win their third championship, I suppose.
Central Divisions had 7 out of 16 playoff teams. All 7 eliminated in first round, combined record 2-14. Oddly, next round is all intra-divisional (Dodgers-Padres, Marlins-Braves, A's-Astros, Rays-Yankees).
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MLB Network will be airing Bob Gibson's 17 strikeout 1968 World Series Game 1, 1:30pm Eastern.
Really good free/unlocked piece from Joe Posnanski on Gibson.
https://twitter.com/JPosnanski/status/1312235313474011137?s=19
And this one too:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1980/09/22/distance
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I kinda wonder if this weird Wild Card playoff format is going to undercut the ratings for the rest of the playoffs. The one game Wild Card is instant drama, that draws eyeballs accordingly.
But this past week felt more like an extension of the regular season. And now you are going to have a bunch of divisional match-ups played without fans at neutral sites.
I know that's what they have to do, but I just think there is no buzz about these playoffs and the ratings will reflect this. (I also think it would have been better to start these playoffs today due to a thin college football schedule. But now we are waiting until early this week.)
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Be great when he’s compelled to sell off his entire team as he does whenever they win a title except they have nobody of high value
New ownership.
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MLB Network will be airing Bob Gibson's 17 strikeout 1968 World Series Game 1, 1:30pm Eastern.
Really good free/unlocked piece from Joe Posnanski on Gibson.
https://twitter.com/JPosnanski/status/1312235313474011137?s=19
And this one too:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1980/09/22/distance
Thanks for this. I won't be able to watch but I'll dvr it for sure.
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Looking for a Miami Marlins World Series victory. A fitting end to this bizarre season.
Gibby was about my favorite baseball player ever. He was an incredible competitor and great athlete. I loved watching him pitch as a kid, especially when he faced Koufax, Jenkins, Seaver, Marichal etc.
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New ownership.
I knows it’s Jeter and company. That’s why I said “he” instead of “Loria”. It’s just part of the joke. Especially since they don’t appear to be managed all that well thus far in the new regime
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I knows it’s Jeter and company. That’s why I said “he” instead of “Loria”. It’s just part of the joke. Especially since they don’t appear to be managed all that well thus far in the new regime
Must be why they jsut advanced in the playoffs.
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Cubs out ... Sox out ... Brewers out ... Reds out ... Cardinals out ... Indians out ... Twins out.
Rough first round of the playoffs for Midwest-based MLB ballclubs.
It's time to sit back and watch the Marlins win their third championship, I suppose.
Whoever wins there will be a large * in the record books for 2020.
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Whoever wins there will be a large * in the record books for 2020.
Eh, everyone is playing under the same rules. No need for an asterisk.
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Whoever wins there will be a large * in the record books for 2020.
If, for example, the Dodgers win, why the asterisk? They were dominant over the shortened season and zero reason to think they weren't going to win that division, which they'd won the last seven years running. And then they will have won a postseason tournament that is more grueling than they would have to win normally.
I think the same basically holds true for the A's and Braves. I would agree with you that for any team that very likely would not have made the playoffs under the previous system (Astros and Marlins), it would be warranted. The Padres and one of the Yankees and the Rays, would have been a wild card and would have needed to win a single game playoff. The Yanks and Rays won their first playoff game, though.
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Kinda crazy that MLB jammed 452 games into Wednesday's schedule but then they go an entire weekend without playing a single game. I guess they didn't want to challenge football for eyeballs.
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MONDAY, OCTOBER 5th
SERIES (“Away” vs. “Home”) First Pitch (ET/Site Time) NETWORK
Game 1, #6 Astros vs. #2 A’s 4:07 p.m./1:07 p.m. at LA TBS
Game 1, #5 Yankees vs. #1 Rays 8:07 p.m./5:07 p.m. at SD TBS
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 6th
SERIES (“Away” vs. “Home”) First Pitch (ET/Site Time) NETWORK
Game 1, #6 Marlins vs. #2 Braves 2:08 p.m./1:08 p.m. at HOU FS1
Game 2, #6 Astros vs. #2 A’s 4:37 p.m./1:37 p.m. at LA TBS
Game 2, #5 Yankees vs. #1 Rays 8:10 p.m./5:10 p.m. at SD TBS
Game 1, #4 Padres vs. #1 Dodgers 9:38 p.m./8:38 p.m. at ARL FS1
WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 7th
SERIES (“Away” vs. “Home”) First Pitch (ET/Site Time) NETWORK
Game 2, #6 Marlins vs. #2 Braves 2:08 p.m./1:08 p.m. at HOU MLBN
Game 3, #2 A’s vs. #6 Astros 3:35 p.m./12:35 p.m. at LA TBS
Game 3, #1 Rays vs. #5 Yankees 7:10 p.m./4:10 p.m. at SD TBS
Game 2, #4 Padres vs. #1 Dodgers 9:08 p.m./8:08 p.m. at ARL FS1
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 8th
SERIES (“Away” vs. “Home”) First Pitch (ET/Site Time) NETWORK
Game 3, #2 Braves vs. #6 Marlins 2:08 p.m./1:08 p.m. at HOU FS1
Game 4, #2 A’s vs. #6 Astros 3:35 p.m./12:35 p.m. at LA TBS
Game 4, #1 Rays vs. #5 Yankees 7:10 p.m./4:10 p.m. at SD TBS
Game 3, #1 Dodgers vs. #4 Padres 9:08 p.m./8:08 p.m. at ARL MLBN
FRIDAY, OCTOBER 9th
SERIES (“Away” vs. “Home”) First Pitch (ET/Site Time) NETWORK
Game 4, #2 Braves vs. #6 Marlins 2:08 p.m./1:08 p.m. at HOU FS1
Game 5, #6 Astros vs. #2 A’s 3:35 p.m./12:35 p.m. at LA TBS
Game 5, #5 Yankees vs. #1 Rays 7:10 p.m./4:10 p.m. at SD TBS
Game 4, #1 Dodgers vs. #4 Padres 9:08 p.m./8:08 p.m. at ARL FS1
SATURDAY, OCTOBER 10th
SERIES (“Away” vs. “Home”) First Pitch (ET/Site Time) NETWORK
Game 5, #6 Marlins vs. #2 Braves 4:08 p.m./3:08 p.m. at HOU FS1
Game 5, #4 Padres vs. #1 Dodgers 8:08 p.m./7:08 p.m. at ARL FS1
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I know it’s a day game, but five home runs in four innings means the ball is flying out of Dodgers Stadium.
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Dusty Baker finally wins a championship.
I mean ... 2020!
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Ryan Weathers, MLB debut for San Diego.
It's always interesting to follow the paths chosen for players.
20 year old lefty Ryan Weathers, (son of 20 year MLB vet David) was a Vandy commit out of high school but went the MLB route getting drafted 7th overall after being named the gatorade player of the year. He's never pitched above low A but San Diego had a need.
For every Ryan Weathers there are Kumar Rocker (sonnof Tracy) Jack Leiter (son of Al) who did go to college instead (both also Vandy)...and vice versa. (3 year commitment for college)
I had a friend who was a late first round MLB draft pick. He was a two sport college commit at a good baseball/academic school). He took the money (7 figures) worked his way up the minors, finished school in the off seasons, and pitched several MLB seasons (and Japan) despite arm troubles over the years. He was never an elite player.
Weathers is a big talent. It will be interesting to see how he develops.
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Showboating a home run (which is fine) and then melting down when the other team showboats a robbed home run (which is fine) is so on brand for Manny Machado.
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Showboating a home run (which is fine) and then melting down when the other team showboats a robbed home run (which is fine) is so on brand for Manny Machado.
I really, really, really hate that guy. My personal opinion is that showboating a home rune is fine, if it is way gone. I've seen so many instances of players admiring balls that barely snuck out or didn't get out and cost themselves bases. That infuriates me. Run full out until you are sure it is gone. If you hit one like Stanton the other night, take your time. If it is one row deep and the first base coach can congratulate you, you aren't running hard enough.
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The Houston Astros- a team everyone hates and that finished the regular season below .500- winning it all would be “very 2020.”
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The Houston Astros- a team everyone hates and that finished the regular season below .500- winning it all would be “very 2020.”
I’m really disappointed in the twins and A’s
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The Houston Astros- a team everyone hates and that finished the regular season below .500- winning it all would be “very 2020.”
Jeez, if the Yankees end up beating the Rays it'll be like watching Nazis play Al Qaeda in the ALCS.
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Another legend, Whitey Ford passed today.
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Since 2000, the best predictor of who will win a MLB playoff series has been a team’s regular season strikeout rate. 63% of the time in playoff series since ‘00, the team with the lower strikeout percentage has won a series.
Team with the lowest K% this season?
Houston Astros
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Start spreading the news.
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Start spreading the news.
That was a great game.
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Hou in 7
LA in 5
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Joe Morgan has passed away at 77, per Bob Nightengale.
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Joe Morgan has passed away at 77, per Bob Nightengale.
I’m sure he was a nice enough guy, and I obviously feel for his friends and family, but the 21 years he did Sunday Night Baseball were pretty damn bad.
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MU should call Rick Renteria, just to gauge his interest.
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MU should call Rick Renteria, just to gauge his interest.
If they don't, it just proves the administration has low expectations for the baseball program.
Anyhow, who's next on the South Side?
I wouldn't be mad if they hired Matt Quatraro.
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Is Hinch beyond redemption? Or will the pearl-clutchers complain about purity or something....
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Is Hinch beyond redemption? Or will the pearl-clutchers complain about purity or something....
He's just a couple years out from a huge cheating scandal on his watch, which he denied and even mocked opposing teams for alleging it was happening.
If they interviewed him, I personally wouldn't have a big problem with it. But I certainly don't blame people who wouldn't want him in charge of their team. If it were my team, I wouldn't want anything to do with him.
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Based on Hahn’s comments, it sure seems like Hinch or Cora. We’ll see though.
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Coop, too? My goodness; who was the pitching coach before Don Cooper?
To answer my own question: Cooper replaced Nardi Contreras in July, 2002.
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Well, it won't be Ozzie Guillen.
I don't think Hahn's comments limit it to Hinch or Cora. "Recent experience in a championship organization" leaves a lot of wiggle room.
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I’ll go on record, it’s going to be AJ Hinch. I would put the odds at 2-1 it’s going to be Hinch. Too many connections between Hinch and people in the Sox organization. Unless someone else blows them away unexpectedly in the interview process, I think they already know there’s mutual interest with Hinch as well and he’ll be the hire.
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Joe Morgan dead. Damn. It has been a bad year for my childhood heroes.
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Joe Morgan dead. Damn. It has been a bad year for my childhood heroes.
Probably the second best 2B of all time.
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I’ll go on record, it’s going to be AJ Hinch. I would put the odds at 2-1 it’s going to be Hinch. Too many connections between Hinch and people in the Sox organization. Unless someone else blows them away unexpectedly in the interview process, I think they already know there’s mutual interest with Hinch as well and he’ll be the hire.
I think he's clearly a front-runner, with the caveat that Hahn has to read the room - in this case, the clubhouse - to understand how that move would be received. Keuchel might have a big role in how that goes, as well as obviously Abreu.
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Probably the second best 2B of all time.
Maybe #1 once Javy moved over to SS.
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Probably the second best 2B of all time.
No 1?
Honus Wagner
Rod Carew
Roberto Alomar
Jackie Robinson
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Honus Wagner was a SS.
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Honus Wagner was a SS.
sorry meant Rogers Hornsby...dont know why i often confuse those two
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sorry meant Rogers Hornsby...dont know why i often confuse those two
I think Hornsby is consensus #1.
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sorry meant Rogers Hornsby...dont know why i often confuse those two
Bruce Hornsby & The Range?
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I didn’t see Morgan in his prime and given the bigger personalities on the Big Red Machine, I didn’t realize how good he was until I started reading Bill James stuff. He was the complete package as a player. Didn’t much care for his announcing at the end but he was a voice of the game for a long time.
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The Wall Street Journal
@WSJ
Oakland A’s executive Billy Beane, who led the “Moneyball” revolution in sports, is expected to leave his role with the team to become part of billionaire Boston Red Sox owner John Henry’s sports empire on.
wsj.com/33T45OJ
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I think Hornsby is consensus #1.
Top 10 by career WAR:
1 Rogers Hornsby
2 Eddie Collins
3 Nap Lajoie
4 Joe Morgan
5 Charlie Gehringer
6 Rod Carew
7 Robinson Cano (active)
8 Bobby Grich
9 Ryne Sandberg
10 Frankie Frisch
Jackie Robinson is #12, but how many years did he lose because baseball was segregated?
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Joe Morgan dead. Damn. It has been a bad year for my childhood heroes.
Same here.
Frank Robinson last year
In like the last six weeks:
Lou Brock
Tom Seaver
Bob Gibson
Whitey Ford
Joe Morgan
Willie Mays is 89
Hank Aaron is 86
Sandy Koufax is 84
Orlando Cepeda is 84
Brooks Robinson is 83
Carl Yaz is 82
Billy Williams is 82
Pete Rose is 79
Tony Perez is 79
That’s off top of my brain, sure others out there. That’s a boatload of Hall of Famers.
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Maybe #1 once Javy moved over to SS.
Made me laugh.
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Top 10 by career WAR:
1 Rogers Hornsby
2 Eddie Collins
3 Nap Lajoie
4 Joe Morgan
5 Charlie Gehringer
6 Rod Carew
7 Robinson Cano (active)
8 Bobby Grich
9 Ryne Sandberg
10 Frankie Frisch
Jackie Robinson is #12, but how many years did he lose because baseball was segregated?
Jackie lost maybe one year to segregation. He didn't play Negro League baseball until 1945. Assume he started playing white organized baseball in 1945 it is safe to assume he'd have spent one year in the minors (like he did in 1946) and would have started in 1946.
Robinson was an amazing football player and track athlete and did not focus on baseball when he was a younger man and was really not anything like a finished baseball player in 1945. He was an incredible athlete. If he had focused on being a baseball player from the start and there was no segregation, he'd have probably gotten 5 or 6 more big league seasons before 1947, though even that couldn't have happened because of WWII. He also could've tacked on another year or two at the back end of his career, but he was traded to the Giants and retired rather than play for the Dodgers arch-enemy. That would never happen today.
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Top 10 by career WAR:
1 Rogers Hornsby
2 Eddie Collins
3 Nap Lajoie
4 Joe Morgan
5 Charlie Gehringer
6 Rod Carew
7 Robinson Cano (active)
8 Bobby Grich
9 Ryne Sandberg
10 Frankie Frisch
And, Hornsby and Frisch were traded for one another. (nice little few decade run there for the Cards)
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Jackie lost maybe one year to segregation. He didn't play Negro League baseball until 1945. Assume he started playing white organized baseball in 1945 it is safe to assume he'd have spent one year in the minors (like he did in 1946) and would have started in 1946.
Robinson was an amazing football player and track athlete and did not focus on baseball when he was a younger man and was really not anything like a finished baseball player in 1945. He was an incredible athlete. If he had focused on being a baseball player from the start and there was no segregation, he'd have probably gotten 5 or 6 more big league seasons before 1947, though even that couldn't have happened because of WWII. He also could've tacked on another year or two at the back end of his career, but he was traded to the Giants and retired rather than play for the Dodgers arch-enemy. That would never happen today.
If you normalize the WAR stat by doing a "per game WAR," Jackie Robinson is only second to Hornsby. To put in perspective, Joe Morgan almost played twice as many games as Robinson.
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If you normalize the WAR stat by doing a "per game WAR," Jackie Robinson is only second to Hornsby. To put in perspective, Joe Morgan almost played twice as many games as Robinson.
Yes, but by doing this you eliminate what would have been Jackie's learning years and his decline years. The fairer comparison would be Jackie Robinson vs Joe Morgan's like age seasons, ages 28-37. Do that and you get Joe ahead by a smallish 2.9% per game (63.7 WAR to 61.7 WAR-Joe played 3 more games). Add that Joe added value in 8 other seasons, plus Joe played 99.4% of his defensive innings at second base while Jackie only played 56.5% of his defensive innings at 2B. It is hard to argue he belongs ahead of Joe on a career 2B list.
To say that Jackie had some real intangibles going for him, of course, is an understatement. I'm surprised he came out so close to Morgan in the age 28-37 comparison, because that is basically the best portion of Joe's career.
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Dusty Baker winning a World Series with a sub .500 ball club would be the most 2020 thing ever.
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White Sox job is LaRussa's if he wants it according to Bob Nightengale.
Ugh!
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White Sox job is LaRussa's if he wants it according to Bob Nightengale.
Ugh!
Key phrase in bold.
If we kept track of baseball reporters' accuracy like we do batting averages, Nightengale would be well below the Mendoza Line.
But I won't rule this out because Reinsdorf has had a boner for LaRussa ever since he fired him.
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Key phrase in bold.
If we kept track of baseball reporters' accuracy like we do batting averages, Nightengale would be well below the Mendoza Line.
But I won't rule this out because Reinsdorf has had a boner for LaRussa ever since he fired him.
People were doubting Joe Morgan’s death because Nightengale was reporting it.
When I saw LaRussa mentioned, I thought it was a joke. Can’t imagine a worse fit for a young, up and coming team.
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Key phrase in bold.
If we kept track of baseball reporters' accuracy like we do batting averages, Nightengale would be well below the Mendoza Line.
But I won't rule this out because Reinsdorf has had a boner for LaRussa ever since he fired him.
Agreed, if someone other than Nightengale starts reporting more, I'll believe it. Reinsdorf throws Nightengale rumors, so whatever favor is due to LaRussa here is weird. The guy is 76 years old, I don't understand the intent here to get LaRussa's name out there. They can't possibly hire the guy to manage this team in 2021. This whole story is bizarre, but is Reinsdorf-esque.
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Agreed, if someone other than Nightengale starts reporting more, I'll believe it. Reinsdorf throws Nightengale rumors, so whatever favor is due to LaRussa here is weird. The guy is 76 years old, I don't understand the intent here to get LaRussa's name out there. They can't possibly hire the guy to manage this team in 2021. This whole story is bizarre, but is Reinsdorf-esque.
I have seen a couple other tweets confirming that the Angels gave Chicago permission to talk to Tony.
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I have seen a couple other tweets confirming that the Angels gave Chicago permission to talk to Tony.
I think that's just standard operating protocol for LaRussa and Reinsdorf/Kenny/Hahn to talk about whatever they have in mind for LaRussa, be it cashing in some favor to get LaRussa's name out there (would have no idea why), or to see if Tony is interested in retiring as a member of the Sox front office in some role.
I firmly believe Rick Hahn in no way, shape, form is hiring LaRussa. If LaRussa were a strict Reinsdorf hire, bypassing Hahn, then Hahn should quit immediately.
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I firmly believe Rick Hahn in no way, shape, form is hiring LaRussa. If LaRussa were a strict Reinsdorf hire, bypassing Hahn, then Hahn should quit immediately.
I agree 100% that Hahn would not hire LaRussa.
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As a Sox fan, I was happy when they let Renteria go. Hinch or Cora would be great hires. LaRussa would be a disaster.
Can’t believe they would go that route.
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I think that's just standard operating protocol for LaRussa and Reinsdorf/Kenny/Hahn to talk about whatever they have in mind for LaRussa, be it cashing in some favor to get LaRussa's name out there (would have no idea why), or to see if Tony is interested in retiring as a member of the Sox front office in some role.
I firmly believe Rick Hahn in no way, shape, form is hiring LaRussa. If LaRussa were a strict Reinsdorf hire, bypassing Hahn, then Hahn should quit immediately.
I have two strong sources that can confirm this is a situation of one of your best friends calls and asks if you'd do it. 100% coming from Reinsdorf asking LaRussa. LaRussa has actually turned down several opportunities to manage again, sticking with front office positions for a few teams, also doing philanthropy, and some consulting work. He doesn't need his name out there. I personally would be surprised if it happened considering his age. His family stopped moving with him after Oakland. They settled there long ago. So, he splits his time between The Bay Area and wherever else he has to be for work.
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Arozarena is on that 2011 NLDS Braun cycle.
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Arozarena is on that 2011 NLCS Braun cycle.
Happy for Randy. He's hit at every level. Just needed a chance.
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/given-room-to-run-fastballs-to-mash-former-cardinals-prospect-arozarena-has-ignited-rays-in/article_b69f325c-f07a-5804-82e6-f03be305dc77.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
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The guy is 76 years old
Yeah, that’s no age for a baseball manager.
A U.S. president, obviously, but not a manager!
Seriously, though, didn’t Jack McKeon come out of retirement at 70-something and lead the Marlins to a championship? And then, IIRC, he came back again when he was in his 80s ... but that didn’t go as well.
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Yeah, that’s no age for a baseball manager.
A U.S. president, obviously, but not a manager!
Seriously, though, didn’t Jack McKeon come out of retirement at 70-something and lead the Marlins to a championship? And then, IIRC, he came back again when he was in his 80s ... but that didn’t go as well.
He was fired from the Reds and retired in 2000 at 70. And then came back 2 years later out of retirement for that 2003 Marlins WS team. LaRussa would be nearly 5 years older and a full decade out of managing by the time next year started. Yikes
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He was fired from the Reds and retired in 2000 at 70. And then came back 2 years later out of retirement for that 2003 Marlins WS team. LaRussa would be nearly 5 years older and a full decade out of managing by the time next year started. Yikes
McKeon actually came back in 2011 at age 80 to finish out the Marlins season after their manager was fired in June. 2012 was the Ozzie Guillen clusterf**k.
Hiring a 76 year old LaRussa just seems like an idea that is going to look bad in retrospect.
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Hiring a 76 year old LaRussa just seems like an idea that is going to look bad in retrospect.
Ha. It looks bad in prospect.
Connie Mack managed well into his 80s. Of course, he wasn't winning many games by then.
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If LaRussa dresses like Mack did, I would be completely on-board.
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I still have a profile up on LinkedIn, and every so often I get an email telling me that I appeared in X many searches.
I opened the one I received today to see that 3 companies had looked at my profile: 2 I had never heard of and ... the Cubbies.
They probably want me to teach Javy how to go from best slider on Earth to best in the entire universe.
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If LaRussa dresses like Mack did, I would be completely on-board.
Does LaRussa still have too long, too dark hair (at 76)? He’s a tool.
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Wow ... what a boneheaded move by Marcell Ozuna.
I rarely see the 10-year-olds I umpire fail to tag up properly at third base.
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Could you hire a guy who is more anti-Astros than Dusty? It's almost comical.
#oldtakesexposed
Yeah I was wrong about this one. Very wrong.
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#oldtakesexposed
Yeah I was wrong about this one. Very wrong.
Until proven wrong, I still think Dusty will fail to win a WS as a manager.
Tonight, the lights may finally be bright enough for him to eff this up. If not, we may be waiting for the World Series for his inexplicable managerial moves. Nevertheless, I still think they’re coming.
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Until proven wrong, I still think Dusty will fail to win a WS as a manager.
Tonight, the lights may finally be bright enough for him to eff this up. If not, we may be waiting for the World Series for his inexplicable managerial moves. Nevertheless, I still think they’re coming.
Dusty actually has managed very well this series.
He is as good as any manager in modern times at getting players to believe in themselves and each other. And he has always been very good at fostering the "us against the world" mentality, which is what the Astros are facing.
What happens is that usually a couple/few years into his tenure anywhere, players start tuning him out. That's pretty common in managing/coaching, regardless of the sport. What separates the OK/good from the very good/great is that the latter have staying power. They also usually have some personnel say and excellent relationships with owners.
Dusty obviously hasn't been a great strategy guy, he isn't in love with advanced metrics, and he is more likely to go with his gut than most. When it works, as with Greinke the other night, he gets some praise. If that hadn't worked, it would have been rip city. But that goes with the territory.
All in all, if I had ran a team that needed a quick fix and needed a real positive vibe in the clubhouse to overcome adversity or internal strife, Dusty would be near the top of my list. If I needed somebody to get a good to very good team over the hump to greatness, he would not be on my list at all.
As a person, I always liked Dusty. He cares about his fellow humans and about leaving a positive mark on the world.
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Wow ... what a boneheaded move by Marcell Ozuna.
I rarely see the 10-year-olds I umpire fail to tag up properly at third base.
That shifted the momentum big time.
Dodgers still alive now.
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That shifted the momentum big time.
Dodgers still alive now.
Yep. Would have been 3-0 with a runner on third and two out. Costly, stupid mistake.
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Hou in 7
LA in 5
5 days after I posted this, the Astros were down 3-0 and the Dodgers were down 2-0. Beautiful predictions.
LA did end up winning (in 7 not 5) and Hou did end up getting to a 7th game (but losing), so I feel a little less dopey.
The last couple games of the LA-Atl series were tense and entertaining. The Dodgers made all the plays, got all the big hits, and Roberts made all the right moves.
End result had to be a big relief for Kershaw, who gets yet another chance to redeem himself in the postseason.
Not ready to make a WS prediction yet. I'm sure everybody is all tingly with anticipation.
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I can't take another LA championship, especially in the same year. One is more than enough...
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I can't take another LA championship, especially in the same year. One is more than enough...
It will either be two LA or two Tampa titles in 2020, with pretty good chance of Tampa getting a chance at a third.
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Wow ... what a boneheaded move by Marcell Ozuna.
I rarely see the 10-year-olds I umpire fail to tag up properly at third base.
An equally boneheaded move by Austin Riley to kill the rally in the 4th. Should have been second and third with one out, instead it was runner on first with 2 outs. Swanson kept that rundown alive plenty long enough and as soon as he headed for home, if Riley takes off for third he makes it easily especially if he didn't back off toward 2nd for some unknown reason.
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Really looking forward to the WS. Two best teams in baseball. Last night’s Game 7 was fantastic.
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Nothing definitive.....There have been some discussions of the White Sox hiring a young manager, and bringing on LaRussa in an advisory role.
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Really looking forward to the WS. Two best teams in baseball. Last night’s Game 7 was fantastic.
I can't watch 4 hours of baseball, but I did watch from the bottom of the 6th on last night, and it was tension-filled, exciting baseball.
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I predict LAD wins in 6 games, with Betts winning MVP.
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LA in 7.
(MVP? Mike Trout, of course.)
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They should play these games in Omaha as they played a typical college baseball season. One big * for this season, if you can call it a season.
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It is what it is. No one asterisks the 1981 World Series or the 1983 Super Bowl.
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They should play these games in Omaha as they played a typical college baseball season. One big * for this season, if you can call it a season.
too damn cold here!
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A reminder that there were 23 other first round picks ahead of Walker Buehler.
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A reminder that there were 23 other first round picks ahead of Walker Buehler.
Ferris-sessment
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A reminder that there were 23 other first round picks ahead of Walker Buehler.
Context is important. Everyone knew Buehler was set to get Tommy John and there was risk there. He would easily have been a top 10 pick with no health issues going into the draft.
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Finally a game that could go either way late. A lot of fun.
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Finally a game that could go either way late. A lot of fun.
Yeah this has been a really fun game to watch.
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Lol that was incredible.
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That was the perfect end to an awesome baseball game. That was as entertaining a baseball game as you’ll ever see, just awesome.
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That was the perfect end to an awesome baseball game. That was as entertaining a baseball game as you’ll ever see, just awesome.
Agreed. That was awesome.
Smith will get a lot of blame for not making that catch, and of course he should’ve caught that ball and if he had Arozarena would’ve been dead. But that throw by Muncy was absolutely horrendous. It’s like a 30 foot throw, you’d like the throw to lead Smith up the 3rd base line expecting a play at home, but even if you just throw it right into Smith’s chest you’re fine. But Muncy threw it so far up the first base line it makes that a really difficult catch and, what he thought would need to be, swipe for the play at home.
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Agreed. That was awesome.
Smith will get a lot of blame for not making that catch, and of course he should’ve caught that ball and if he had Arozarena would’ve been dead. But that throw by Muncy was absolutely horrendous. It’s like a 30 foot throw, you’d like the throw to lead Smith up the 3rd base line expecting a play at home, but even if you just throw it right into Smith’s chest you’re fine. But Muncy threw it so far up the first base line it makes that a really difficult catch and, what he thought would need to be, swipe for the play at home.
I just paused it on my tv to when Muncy gets the ball and starts to pivot.
Muncy’s throw isn’t great at all, but Smith is way out of position. Smith is outside of the left handed batters box (should have been in front of the plate). And what in god’s name is Jansen doing? He’s literally just hanging out between the mound and the third base line.
Muncy actually throws it to where Smith is at initially. Smith actually pivots and moved as Muncy released it. Rewatching it, that’s on Smith. He should have had his mask off too.
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Here’s what I was talking about
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Here’s what I was talking about
Yeah that’s bad. My guess would be Smith did not expect Muncy to cut the throw off from
Taylor and that’s where Taylor’s throw was taking Smith.
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Every little league/travel ball parent/grandparent/umpire is thinking "been there, seen that."
Smith had moved into a position to back up the throw from the outfield. He then had to recover.
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So, I've given it overnight, and still can't believe the ending to that game. Wow. Just an amazing game. And the worst and best ending. Haha. Wow.
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Best description I have heard....."Double Buckner."
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And something that could only happen in baseball happened. The worst player on either roster came up in the biggest situation in the game, and was the hero.
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https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/why-fox-bumping-wwe-smackdown-211921896.html
Record low ratings. So..... many..... snarky..... things..... to...... say....... But nope, walking away.
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Every little league/travel ball parent/grandparent/umpire is thinking "been there, seen that."
Smith had moved into a position to back up the throw from the outfield. He then had to recover.
Wrong. Grandpa would have been yelling something incorrect.
Otherwise, spot on. ;D
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Wrong. Grandpa would have been yelling something incorrect.
Touche'. I would argue if I could.
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I just paused it on my tv to when Muncy gets the ball and starts to pivot.
Muncy’s throw isn’t great at all, but Smith is way out of position. Smith is outside of the left handed batters box (should have been in front of the plate). And what in god’s name is Jansen doing? He’s literally just hanging out between the mound and the third base line.
Muncy actually throws it to where Smith is at initially. Smith actually pivots and moved as Muncy released it. Rewatching it, that’s on Smith. He should have had his mask off too.
The bigger question is whywas Jansen no backing up the catcher?
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Brain fart. And it wouldn't have mattered unless Smith flung the ball right at him and Jansen's reflexes were such that he could catch the ball and either throw the ball back or win the race to home plate.
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Last night was one of the most purely fun baseball games I have ever seen. Absolutely awesome.
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The bigger question is whywas Jansen no backing up the catcher?
My thought was that he was going to back up 3rd until muncy booted it. Then was caught in no mans land.
Thb, i didnt see how he came off the mound, but thats the only thing i can think of
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Randy Arozarena, another day another record, amazing. Single Post Season Home Runs, Hits, now he has tied David Freese with most extra base hits in a single post season with 14.
The Cardinals wanted to move some right handed hitters for lefty pitching. Instead of moving Bader or O'Neill etc with Jose Martinez, they trade Arozarena for Matthew Liberatore.
Arozarena having a post season for the ages. He's hit at every level. Good for him. He has quite a story.
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Snell was dealing. Really bad decision.
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Snell was dealing. Really bad decision.
73 pitches.
Betts hit righties way better than lefties this year. Bring in Anderson who sets a record for giving up a run in 7 straight post season outings.
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Snell was dealing. Really bad decision.
Baseball has become pussified by analytics its sad to watch.
Well deserved for Dodgers tho.
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I don’t even see Justin Turner our there celebrating. What the fook happened?
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Baseball has become pussified by analytics its sad to watch.
Well deserved for Dodgers tho.
That was quite literally the opposite of what the analytics would've had Cash do.
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I don’t even see Justin Turner our there celebrating. What the fook happened?
Covid happened apparently which is odd because weren't they in a bubble for the last two rounds of the playoffs?
After you posted this, it was announced that they pulled Turner due to a positive Covid test.
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Covid happened apparently which is odd because weren't they in a bubble for the last two rounds of the playoffs?
After you posted this, it was announced that they pulled Turner due to a positive Covid test.
I have so many questions about how a player gets pulled in the middle of a game, in a bubble, due to a positive test. I’m not expecting anyone to have answers right now, but still so many questions.
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I have so many questions about how a player gets pulled in the middle of a game, in a bubble, due to a positive test. I’m not expecting anyone to have answers right now, but still so many questions.
I was really shocked when I heard the news - wasn't at all what I was expecting to hear about why he was pulled from the game.
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If I were the Rays, I’d be rightfully pissed right now at MLB.
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Snell was dealing. Really bad decision.
29 years ago tonight Jack Morris went 10 innings to win game 7 1-0. Today he’d have been pulled two times through the lineup.
The hitters Snell was due to face were 0-6 against him tonight. Screw analytics, let the man pitch when he’s rolling.
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The hitters Snell was due to face were 0-6 against him tonight. Screw analytics, let the man pitch when he’s rolling.
If I were Kevin Cash, I’d just say they received Snell’s Covid results in the 6th inning.
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But apparently he still made it out there for team photos! Although to be fair they were all plenty exposed to him before that point anyways.
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29 years ago tonight Jack Morris went 10 innings to win game 7 1-0. Today he’d have been pulled two times through the lineup.
The hitters Snell was due to face were 0-6 against him tonight. Screw analytics, let the man pitch when he’s rolling.
Again, the analytics say let him pitch there. Cash did screw the analytics, and screwed the Rays.
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Baseball has become pussified by analytics its sad to watch.
Pussified?
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I have so many questions about how a player gets pulled in the middle of a game, in a bubble, due to a positive test. I’m not expecting anyone to have answers right now, but still so many questions.
Not only was he pulled from the game, but then he was allowed back on the field to celebrate, including being in the team picture without a mask.
I mean, WTF?
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That was quite literally the opposite of what the analytics would've had Cash do.
Hahaha no it wasn't
The analytics are against(Snell especially) going the 3rd time through the order and pitching beyond 5-6 innings.
That was the exact definition of a analytics move(as repeated by every single talking head since last night happened).
Its the Rays organizational philosophy to trust analytics and pull their starters early. Leaving Snell in would be going with the EYE test and feeling out the current game.
Cash went with the analytics.
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Again, the analytics say let him pitch there. Cash did screw the analytics, and screwed the Rays.
Yeah you quite literally have the definition of analytics backwards.
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Hahaha no it wasn't
The analytics are against(Snell especially) going the 3rd time through the order and pitching beyond 5-6 innings.
That was the exact definition of a analytics move(as repeated by every single talking head since last night happened).
Its the Rays organizational philosophy to trust analytics and pull their starters early. Leaving Snell in would be going with the EYE test and feeling out the current game.
Cash went with the analytics.
Yeah you quite literally have the definition of analytics backwards.
You might want to check Mookie Betts's splits and then get back to me on pulling the lefty Blake Snell (who Betts was 0-4 against in the series up to that point) to put in a righty and how that was the move the analytics would suggest.
Because it's quite literally the opposite of what the analytics would suggest.
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You might want to check Mookie Betts's splits and then get back to me on pulling the lefty Blake Snell (who Betts was 0-4 against in the series up to that point) to put in a righty and how that was the move the analytics would suggest.
Because it's quite literally the opposite of what the analytics would suggest.
Again, you are still wrong on what analytics in baseball are. The analytics the Rays(and other teams are using) are all based around not letting starters pitch deeper into games and face lineups a 3rd time through the order. You are QUITE LITERALLY the only person arguing this wasn't a analytics decision.
https://twitter.com/DPLennon/status/1321305548143398917
https://twitter.com/DarrenWHaynes/status/1321300130579046401
https://twitter.com/qualityatbats/status/1321280642483511296
https://twitter.com/BrentASJax/status/1321322392732471298
https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1321275964714868738
https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1321331393272709120
https://twitter.com/AROD/status/1321283976246558724
https://twitter.com/AROD/status/1321277104906850305
https://twitter.com/TheBigHurt_35/status/1321277985949806593
I can definitely keep going. I am here to quite literally educate you.
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Again, you are still wrong on what analytics in baseball are. The analytics the Rays(and other teams are using) are all based around not letting starters pitch deeper into games and face lineups a 3rd time through the order. You are QUITE LITERALLY the only person arguing this wasn't a analytics decision.
https://twitter.com/DPLennon/status/1321305548143398917
https://twitter.com/DarrenWHaynes/status/1321300130579046401
https://twitter.com/qualityatbats/status/1321280642483511296
https://twitter.com/BrentASJax/status/1321322392732471298
https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1321275964714868738
https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1321331393272709120
https://twitter.com/AROD/status/1321283976246558724
https://twitter.com/AROD/status/1321277104906850305
https://twitter.com/TheBigHurt_35/status/1321277985949806593
I can definitely keep going. I am here to quite literally educate you.
Please, keep going. Just to confirm, you're going on record and saying the analytics say the Rays should have pulled their lefty pitcher for a righty pitcher to face Mookie Betts?
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Please, keep going. Just to confirm, you're going on record and saying the analytics say the Rays should have pulled their lefty pitcher for a righty pitcher to face Mookie Betts?
Correct, everyone in America is saying it.
But yeah you the guy who says he doesnt watch baseball until the playoffs knows analytics compared to Hall of Famers and guys whose actual profession requires them to follow the sport and report on it.
But yeah, Kevin Keirmeier who is on the Rays saying it was a numbers decision. He also knows less than you.
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Correct, everyone in America is saying it.
But yeah you the guy who says he doesnt watch baseball until the playoffs knows analytics compared to Hall of Famers and guys whose actual profession requires them to follow the sport and report on it.
But yeah, Kevin Keirmeier who is on the Rays saying it was a numbers decision. He also knows less than you.
Got it. You've gone on record as saying bringing in a righty to replace a (dealing) lefty was the correct move by analytics. Makes a lot of sense, given that Betts hit .333 and had an OPS of 1.107 against righties and hit .208 and an had an OPS of 0.551 against lefties this year. Yup, the analytics make it clear you want the righty in the game there!
Hysterical. I hope you don't actually, literally, teach math, statistics, or analytics.
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Got it. You've gone on record as saying bringing in a righty to replace a (dealing) lefty was the correct move by analytics. Makes a lot of sense, given that Betts hit .333 and had an OPS of 1.107 against righties and hit .208 and an had an OPS of 0.551 against lefties this year. Yup, the analytics make it clear you want the righty in the game there!
Hysterical. I hope you don't actually, literally, teach math, statistics, or analytics.
Got it. You still are too fu cking dumb to read.
I have gone on record stating that this was an analytical decision based on the Rays computer analytics that don't let their pitchers(especially Snell) pitch a 3rd time through the order and beyond 5-6 innings. I have also gone on the record to state that EVERYONE is saying this. Not just me, again you keep ignoring that.
Lastly, I am going on the record to state you are literally a fuc king moron. Hysterical. I hope you dont actually, literally, reproduce.
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Got it. You've gone on record as saying bringing in a righty to replace a (dealing) lefty was the correct move by analytics. Makes a lot of sense, given that Betts hit .333 and had an OPS of 1.107 against righties and hit .208 and an had an OPS of 0.551 against lefties this year. Yup, the analytics make it clear you want the righty in the game there!
Hysterical. I hope you don't actually, literally, teach math, statistics, or analytics.
"Betts would have represented the start of Snell’s third trip through the order. Including the playoffs, Snell faced the same hitter a third time in a game only 34 times this season. Against lefties — there were 10 of those — he allowed a .700 OPS. Betts isn’t a lefty, though. Against righties for a third time, Snell allowed a 1.072 OPS.
That sample is small, to be sure. So let’s look at Snell overall for his career. Third time through against lefties: .472 OPS. Against righties: .800. It also should be noted that Betts isn’t just any righty. He is Mookie Betts, whom some consider to be the best player in baseball right now."
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/10/dodgers-rays-kevin-cash-blake-snell-world-series-analytics
Enjoy, dolt.
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You are both right. Analytics says that Snell should have stayed in to pitch to Betts in that specific situation.
But the reason he was pulled overall was because that's what the analytics are saying about going through a third time.
Analytics don't give you a yes and no, black and white answer to every situation. It's just data that you use to make decisions. And what national "baseball reporters" are saying are just sound bites that perform well in our "hot take" culture.
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You are both right. Analytics says that Snell should have stayed in to pitch to Betts in that specific situation.
But the reason he was pulled overall was because that's what the analytics are saying about going through a third time.
Analytics don't give you a yes and no, black and white answer to every situation. It's just data that you use to make decisions. And what national "baseball reporters" are saying are just sound bites that perform well in our "hot take" culture.
Not exactly. Like I showed. For Betts personally hes worse against lefties so those stats say leave Snell in. But for Snell personally the analystics show hes horrendous the 3rd time through typically especially vs Righties. For example....Betts and Seager got to him in game 2 with a walk and single the 3rd time through.
But the issue everyone(except Mr. "Doesnt watch baseball but knows Analystics" himself) has with the move is it went STRICTLY off Snells past and didn't take 1 game and the eye test into account.
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MLB tonight talking about it right now. Someone on this thread should tune in to MLB network.
"this was an organizational decision based on their analytics of not letting guys face a lineup a 3rd time"
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I mean, Snell's ERA jumps from sub 1.00 through the first 3 innings to over 11.00 in the 4th. So in reality I guess the Rays should've pulled him after the 3rd if we're going with the analytics?
Got it. You still are too fu cking dumb to read.
I have gone on record stating that this was an analytical decision based on the Rays computer analytics that don't let their pitchers(especially Snell) pitch a 3rd time through the order and beyond 5-6 innings. I have also gone on the record to state that EVERYONE is saying this. Not just me, again you keep ignoring that.
Lastly, I am going on the record to state you are literally a fuc king moron. Hysterical. I hope you dont actually, literally, reproduce.
Triggered.
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"Betts would have represented the start of Snell’s third trip through the order. Including the playoffs, Snell faced the same hitter a third time in a game only 34 times this season. Against lefties — there were 10 of those — he allowed a .700 OPS. Betts isn’t a lefty, though. Against righties for a third time, Snell allowed a 1.072 OPS.
That sample is small, to be sure. So let’s look at Snell overall for his career. Third time through against lefties: .472 OPS. Against righties: .800. It also should be noted that Betts isn’t just any righty. He is Mookie Betts, whom some consider to be the best player in baseball right now."
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/10/dodgers-rays-kevin-cash-blake-snell-world-series-analytics
Enjoy, dolt.
Lol. "He's Mookie Betts."
Right. The guy who crushes righties and struggles against lefties. That Mookie Betts.
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This is the baseball debate content that I crave.
Isn't it a fair shot down the middle to say "Cash pulled Snell because the organizational line in the sand that was drawn, based on its analytics, was to not allow their pitchers to face a lineup a third time. But that was a tunnel vision decision that did not take into account the numbers for the opposing batters. Had Cash priced in Mookie's reverse splits, he would have come to the conclusion that Snell's "third time through" risk of facing Betts again was less than the risk of bringing in the right handed Anderson to face him. He was so focused on the analytics as applied to his own pitchers that he neglected to apply the same analysis to the opposing batter."
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Not exactly. Like I showed. For Betts personally hes worse against lefties so those stats say leave Snell in. But for Snell personally the analystics show hes horrendous the 3rd time through typically especially vs Righties. For example....Betts and Seager got to him in game 2 with a walk and single the 3rd time through.
But the issue everyone(except Mr. "Doesnt watch baseball but knows Analystics" himself) has with the move is it went STRICTLY off Snells past and didn't take 1 game and the eye test into account.
What are you even talking about with "Doesn't watch baseball?" Lol.
Also, you don't have to watch baseball at all to understand analytics.
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This is the baseball debate content that I crave.
Isn't it a fair shot down the middle to say "Cash pulled Snell because the organizational line in the sand that was drawn, based on its analytics, was to not allow their pitchers to face a lineup a third time. But that was a tunnel vision decision that did not take into account the numbers for the opposing batters. Had Cash priced in Mookie's reverse splits, he would have come to the conclusion that Snell's "third time through" risk of facing Betts again was less than the risk of bringing in the right handed Anderson to face him. He was so focused on the analytics as applied to his own pitchers that he neglected to apply the same analysis to the opposing batter."
Did the data tell him to bring in a pitcher that had given up runs in 6 straight games and that set a record for 7? He's a good manager. It was a tough decision. It didn't work out. It definitely seemed to be a situational feel of a 1-0 game, Snell thriving. But 3rd time through the order. Also, Mookie Betts slugged righties much better than lefties this year.
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This is the baseball debate content that I crave.
Isn't it a fair shot down the middle to say "Cash pulled Snell because the organizational line in the sand that was drawn, based on its analytics, was to not allow their pitchers to face a lineup a third time. But that was a tunnel vision decision that did not take into account the numbers for the opposing batters. Had Cash priced in Mookie's reverse splits, he would have come to the conclusion that Snell's "third time through" risk of facing Betts again was less than the risk of bringing in the right handed Anderson to face him. He was so focused on the analytics as applied to his own pitchers that he neglected to apply the same analysis to the opposing batter."
Great post, Burrow. Especially the “organizational line in the sand” part. This decision was basically made by the “organization” before the game. It is exactly what they have done with Snell every time he has pitched. This group decision is the way the Rays operate.
While I understand that, I also think there is a need to have a manager who can make decisions. He is in the dugout. He sees up close how effective Snell is pitching. If the front office is going to dictate moves, then just have a group of coaches and forego having a manager. Cash is an excellent people person, but as a tactical manager, I don’t see anything special. Most of his decisions are made in conjunction with management in an office before the game.
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Lol. "He's Mookie Betts."
Right. The guy who crushes righties and struggles against lefties. That Mookie Betts.
Correct.
And Cash pulled Snell the guy who gets crushed the 3rd time through the order and even more so by righties. That Blake Snell.
Cash himself said and I quote "I did not want him facing Betts or Seager a 3rd time". He went with the analystics.
https://www.nj.com/yankees/2020/10/are-analytics-to-blame-for-rays-kevin-cash-pulling-blake-snell-too-early-from-game-6-of-2020-world-series.html
"According to Baseball Reference, Snell made into the sixth inning four times this season. His ERA in the sixth inning: 13.50.
Six times this season Snell had to face an opposing lineup for the third time in a single game. Teams hit .304 with a .609 OBP and .913 OPS on their third look at Snell."
The rays have an analytical philosophy that they blindly followed all year long. The issue is they leave no room for the eye test or feeling out a game on a game by game basis.
You are still the only person in America too stupid to grasp this.
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Incidentally, the next 3 batters Snell would have faced were 0-6 with 6 Ks. Sometimes a baseball decision needs to trump an analytics decision.
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What are you even talking about with "Doesn't watch baseball?" Lol.
Also, you don't have to watch baseball at all to understand analytics.
As you are proving, apparently you do.
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The analytics show Snell sucks after the 3rd and that Betts crushes righties. The Rays went the opposite way of the analytics and left Snell in well past the 3rd and brought in a lefty to face Betts.
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Loved "Rudy Gobert" going back on the field and celebrating with his Dodger teammates after being told he tested positive for Covid.
Very trumpian of him.
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Loved "Rudy Gobert" going back on the field and celebrating with his Dodger teammates after being told he tested positive for Covid.
Very trumpian of him.
Devils advocate...the entire team knows about the test, and thats why he was pulled and out there with a mask initially. Roberts as much as anyone. Team officials say "if Turner comes back out maskless, you all have to quarantine for 14 days" and the team and Roberts go "we just won the WS, thats fine, bring him out here"
I'm no fan of Justin Turner, but people painting it as some renegade decision that is aggrieving his teammates (and even stupider I saw people on Twitter complaining about fans being endangered) are jumping to conclusions. I'm not going to comment on MLB's handling of things, just what I saw from the team-centric postgame activities.
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I'm no fan of Justin Turner, but people painting it as some renegade decision that is aggrieving his teammates (and even stupider I saw people on Twitter complaining about fans being endangered) are jumping to conclusions. I'm not going to comment on MLB's handling of things, just what I saw from the team-centric postgame activities.
Major League Baseball said in a statement Wednesday that it is "beginning a full investigation" into Justin Turner's postgame actions on Tuesday night.
Turner was pulled from the Dodgers' World Series clincher after seven innings once the team was alerted that he had tested positive for COVID-19, but the veteran third baseman decided to take part in portions of the on-field celebration anyway, at one point removing his mask for a team photo. Turner "chose to disregard the agreed-upon joint protocols and the instructions he was given regarding the safety and protection of others," reads the statement. "While a desire to celebrate is understandable, Turner’s decision to leave isolation and enter the field was wrong and put everyone he came in contact with at risk. When MLB Security raised the matter of being on the field with Turner, he emphatically refused to comply. The Commissioner's Office is beginning a full investigation into this matter and will consult with the Players Association within the parameters of the joint 2020 Operations Manual." It's possible Turner could be facing some sort of fine or suspension.
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Rotoworld:
According to Bruce Levine of Chicago's 670 The Score, Tony La Russa "has talked to close associates about possible coaching and baseball support system positions if he is named the White Sox manager."
This latest report from Levine serves as a good indication that La Russa is a serious candidate for the job, and quite possibly the current favorite. There's also talk that the White Sox are considering former Diamondbacks and Astros manager A.J. Hinch, whose one-year suspension from baseball officially ended with the conclusion of the 2020 World Series on Tuesday night. White Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf will likely have the final say in the end, and he has a close relationship with La Russa that dates back to the late 1970s.
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If Cash leaves Snell in and Snell gets his brains bashed in, he opens himself to tremendous second-guessing. The Rays considered their bullpen the strength of their team, and today's starting pitchers are geared toward going only 5-6 innings. You leave Snell in and you lose, and everybody from fans all the way up to his bosses would complain he was trying to "reinvent the wheel."
You pull Snell and turn the ball over to the relievers, and they blow it, yes, you have fans and folks like us second-guessing you. But Cash can say to his bosses, "This is the team we have built -- the team you put together for me to manage -- and this is the strategy we have used to win all season, including the playoffs."
I admittedly don't do deep dives into analytics, and I was saying, "Leave Snell in there." But I understand that pulling Snell gives Cash "plausible deniability."
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If Cash leaves Snell in and Snell gets his brains bashed in, he opens himself to tremendous second-guessing. The Rays considered their bullpen the strength of their team, and today's starting pitchers are geared toward going only 5-6 innings. You leave Snell in and you lose, and everybody from fans all the way up to his bosses would complain he was trying to "reinvent the wheel."
You pull Snell and turn the ball over to the relievers, and they blow it, yes, you have fans and folks like us second-guessing you. But Cash can say to his bosses, "This is the team we have built -- the team you put together for me to manage -- and this is the strategy we have used to win all season, including the playoffs."
I admittedly don't do deep dives into analytics, and I was saying, "Leave Snell in there." But I understand that pulling Snell gives Cash "plausible deniability."
Except the bullpen was dog tired from over usage during a year when the playoff schedule was shortened with fewer days off.
I agree, in principle, with what you are saying, but a good manager will adjust for circumstances.
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Can’t believe it’s LaRussa.
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If Cash leaves Snell in and Snell gets his brains bashed in, he opens himself to tremendous second-guessing. The Rays considered their bullpen the strength of their team, and today's starting pitchers are geared toward going only 5-6 innings. You leave Snell in and you lose, and everybody from fans all the way up to his bosses would complain he was trying to "reinvent the wheel."
You pull Snell and turn the ball over to the relievers, and they blow it, yes, you have fans and folks like us second-guessing you. But Cash can say to his bosses, "This is the team we have built -- the team you put together for me to manage -- and this is the strategy we have used to win all season, including the playoffs."
I admittedly don't do deep dives into analytics, and I was saying, "Leave Snell in there." But I understand that pulling Snell gives Cash "plausible deniability."
This is true, had snell remained in and he gave up the runs scoop would have crucified Cash as the next Dusty Baker.
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I feel happy for Kershaw. He pitched well in the World Series -- actually quite well in 4 of 5 postseason starts -- and finally won a title.
It never seems right to me when great players who also seem like good guys are labeled as "chokers" or "losers." Glad Kershaw's labels now are "champion" and "future Hall of Famer." (Obviously, he was Hall-bound either way, but it's better to go in as a champ.)
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I don’t think Rick Hahn is going to be the GM much longer.
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I don’t think Rick Hahn is going to be the GM much longer.
Tweets from FA Marcus Stroman indicate he would never sign with the Sox if LaRussa is the manager.
My guess is that Bauer would be out too. Bauer doesn't exactly follow the unwritten rules or play the Cardinal way.
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Tweets from FA Marcus Stroman indicate he would never sign with the Sox if LaRussa is the manager.
My guess is that Bauer would be out too. Bauer doesn't exactly follow the unwritten rules or play the Cardinal way.
I’m very torn right now. After MU, there isn’t a team I love more than the Sox. If LaRussa is hired, I don’t know how I can root for them. It would be such an epically poor decision on so many levels.
Not feeling good at all. Hopefully common sense prevails here.
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I don’t think Rick Hahn is going to be the GM much longer.
Yea, get that same vibe if LaRussa is hired. No way in hell thats Hahn’s guy.
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I’m very torn right now. After MU, there isn’t a team I love more than the Sox. If LaRussa is hired, I don’t know how I can root for them. It would be such an epically poor decision on so many levels.
Not feeling good at all. Hopefully common sense prevails here.
Jerry always gets his man (eventually). Doesn’t matter if it’s Danny Tartabull in 1996, Griffey in ‘08, or LaRussa in ‘21.
I’m half expecting for the Sox to still sign Chone Figgins.
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Jerry always gets his man (eventually). Doesn’t matter if it’s Danny Tartabull in 1996, Griffey in ‘08, or LaRussa in ‘21.
I’m half expecting for the Sox to still sign Chone Figgins.
And A-Rod.
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I’m very torn right now. After MU, there isn’t a team I love more than the Sox. If LaRussa is hired, I don’t know how I can root for them. It would be such an epically poor decision on so many levels.
Not feeling good at all. Hopefully common sense prevails here.
I am a Brewer fan, first anf foremost.
In the AL, I root for the sox. That ends if LaRussa is hired.
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#donedeal
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Unreal. No other words.
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Unreal. No other words.
I mean, I hate it, but it's not like they're bringing back Terry Bevington. He has been an all-time manager.
Whether he still is/still can be an effective manager is very questionable and all of our doubts are well founded.
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If anyone is interested if Dave Duncan will join.....
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/if-la-russa-goes-to-white-sox-sidekick-duncan-will-not-be-along-for-the/article_162f7227-9cdd-5dd1-9434-ecfa9d5c704f.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
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I can't wrap my head around this. Their friggin marketing slogan is "Change the game". The face of their franchise is Tim Anderson for crying out loud.
They have a young and exciting team. They have to fight for relevance in their own market and nationally. Hahn took years to put a plan in place to put a team together that is now on the brink. They just blow that all up today.
Hahn's press conference in announcing the dismissal of Ricky...everything said there goes against what they did today.
LaRussa is 76 years old, he's been away from the day to day portion of the game for over a decade, where the game has changed significantly. Covid is still going on, I mean the guy is going to be travelling and exposed. If nothing else, that's insane.
They didn't interview anyone else. No. One. Else.
This absolutely sucks. I don't know how to process this as a fan at all. This is like saving up for some fancy 30 year old Corvette, finally getting a chance to buy it, and then deciding not to insure it and buying tires from 30 years ago that worked on the car back then.
I don't know guys. Someone talk me off the ledge.
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I can't wrap my head around this. Their friggin marketing slogan is "Change the game". The face of their franchise is Tim Anderson for crying out loud.
They have a young and exciting team. They have to fight for relevance in their own market and nationally. Hahn took years to put a plan in place to put a team together that is now on the brink. They just blow that all up today.
Hahn's press conference in announcing the dismissal of Ricky...everything said there goes against what they did today.
LaRussa is 76 years old, he's been away from the day to day portion of the game for over a decade, where the game has changed significantly. Covid is still going on, I mean the guy is going to be travelling and exposed. If nothing else, that's insane.
They didn't interview anyone else. No. One. Else.
This absolutely sucks. I don't know how to process this as a fan at all. This is like saving up for some fancy 30 year old Corvette, finally getting a chance to buy it, and then deciding not to insure it and buying tires from 30 years ago that worked on the car back then.
I don't know guys. Someone talk me off the ledge.
At least the Chicago Bears are 5-2! **Ducks**
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I don't know guys. Someone talk me off the ledge.
I'm not sure I can talk you off the ledge. Every criticism you offer is spot on.
The only glimmer of hope here is this: Tony LaRussa is a great baseball manager. He's won everywhere he's been, consistently getting the most out of his teams, and he's done it usually by being the smartest guy on the field.
There's plenty of reason to question whether he can still be that guy. That's my concern.
But they didn't hire a complete a--clown here (well, maybe personality wise, but not baseball wise). They hired a guy with a tremendous record of success.
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I can't wrap my head around this. Their friggin marketing slogan is "Change the game". The face of their franchise is Tim Anderson for crying out loud.
LaRussa is going to have some explaining to do to Anderson regarding his thoughts about Kapernick and kneeling.
I get it, those comments were made in 2016, back when LaRussa was a young 72 year-old, and there’s no doubt he has evolved as he’s grown older, but still....
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I can't wrap my head around this. Their friggin marketing slogan is "Change the game". The face of their franchise is Tim Anderson for crying out loud.
They have a young and exciting team. They have to fight for relevance in their own market and nationally. Hahn took years to put a plan in place to put a team together that is now on the brink. They just blow that all up today.
Hahn's press conference in announcing the dismissal of Ricky...everything said there goes against what they did today.
LaRussa is 76 years old, he's been away from the day to day portion of the game for over a decade, where the game has changed significantly. Covid is still going on, I mean the guy is going to be travelling and exposed. If nothing else, that's insane.
They didn't interview anyone else. No. One. Else.
This absolutely sucks. I don't know how to process this as a fan at all. This is like saving up for some fancy 30 year old Corvette, finally getting a chance to buy it, and then deciding not to insure it and buying tires from 30 years ago that worked on the car back then.
I don't know guys. Someone talk me off the ledge.
Throw a couple of bucks at Just For Men stocks... you'll feel better.
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La Russa and Crean are buddies. Seriously.
If that doesn't make you feel better, Dish, nothing will!
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"I was surprised when the White Sox called" - LaRussa a minute ago in his introductory presser.
That's not good.
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How about this dish...
And I'm trying to be positive...
He has managed teams to 90 wins or more 12 times. 6 pennants. 3 WS titles.
He managed Ricky Henderson. I think he can manage Tim.
The last 2 managers have been Robin Ventura and Ricky Renteria. We know for a fact Tony LaRussa is a good MLB level manager. Can't say that about a manager the Sox have had in a decade.
He was one of the first guys to hit his best hitter 2nd, and his P 8th. I think the "he's old and doesn't get analytics" crap is over blown.
And I doubt he would have pulled Blake Snell, so there's that.
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I can't wrap my head around this. Their friggin marketing slogan is "Change the game". The face of their franchise is Tim Anderson for crying out loud.
They have a young and exciting team. They have to fight for relevance in their own market and nationally. Hahn took years to put a plan in place to put a team together that is now on the brink. They just blow that all up today.
Hahn's press conference in announcing the dismissal of Ricky...everything said there goes against what they did today.
LaRussa is 76 years old, he's been away from the day to day portion of the game for over a decade, where the game has changed significantly. Covid is still going on, I mean the guy is going to be travelling and exposed. If nothing else, that's insane.
They didn't interview anyone else. No. One. Else.
This absolutely sucks. I don't know how to process this as a fan at all. This is like saving up for some fancy 30 year old Corvette, finally getting a chance to buy it, and then deciding not to insure it and buying tires from 30 years ago that worked on the car back then.
I don't know guys. Someone talk me off the ledge.
You could always just make it fun and embrace Tony Lingo:
Hard 9
Damage (He bats 2nd)
FOT’s These are efff ohhh tees, (Friends of Tony) and they are eclectic.
ARF (he’s done a lot of good here)
Music Tony
Edge
Maybe just embrace the fun. At 76, we’ll see if he has anything left.
One place I recommend to start, is Martin Kilcoyne. Martin, (great guy and MU Rah Rah alum) does an amazing TLR impression. He used to do a radio segment called #AskTony and he never broke character. Eventually, over time, Tony and Martin became good friends. More recently, these past few years, they have done several podcasts together called (Tony Talk) with Danny McGlaughlin. That’s not a bad place to start to get a feel. Maybe also check out some old Joe Strauss. They sparred often.
Often, Tony wasn’t an old
school manager when it came to game strategy. He was often ahead of others at various times. Old school maybe when it comes to some other parts of the game. As Dunc said. he knows pitching is less about sinkers and sliders and more about high fast balls curves and changeups and the way the game transitions over time.
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Tom Fornelli writes a Fantasy column for CBS Sports and is a big White Sox fan. I am not a Sox fan, but agree with everything he said:
“I never believed it to be possible. I always thought that it was just team owner Jerry Reinsdorf being an idiot and that he'd get his interview, and then the team would hire somebody else.
Now the White Sox, a team on the cusp of possibly being something special, has decided to hire a 76-year old manager who hasn't ran a team in nine years. A manager who has experienced plenty of success but retired the first time due in part to a game that was changing and moving in a different direction than the one he was accustomed to.
I'm not knocking anything La Russa has done in his career. He's one of the greatest managers in baseball history, but that doesn't make him the right choice for a team right now. It just makes him the choice of the team's owner, who wants to spend some more time around one of his oldest and dearest friends. And if the White Sox win or lose because of it, at least they'll be able to talk about The Good Ol' Days while doing it.”
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I can't wrap my head around this. Their friggin marketing slogan is "Change the game". The face of their franchise is Tim Anderson for crying out loud.
They have a young and exciting team. They have to fight for relevance in their own market and nationally. Hahn took years to put a plan in place to put a team together that is now on the brink. They just blow that all up today.
Hahn's press conference in announcing the dismissal of Ricky...everything said there goes against what they did today.
LaRussa is 76 years old, he's been away from the day to day portion of the game for over a decade, where the game has changed significantly. Covid is still going on, I mean the guy is going to be travelling and exposed. If nothing else, that's insane.
They didn't interview anyone else. No. One. Else.
This absolutely sucks. I don't know how to process this as a fan at all. This is like saving up for some fancy 30 year old Corvette, finally getting a chance to buy it, and then deciding not to insure it and buying tires from 30 years ago that worked on the car back then.
I don't know guys. Someone talk me off the ledge.
He's younger than one of the Presidential candidates.
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He's younger than one of the Presidential candidates.
Joe Paterno was still coaching at 84!
Eh ... maybe that's not the best example.
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At least the Sox will play the game the "right way" now. ::)
Larussa will be ready to trade Anderson, Jimenez, and Robert a week into training camp.
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LaRussa spoke out against Tatis’ 3-0 grand slam in August. Excellent.
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At least the Sox will play the game the "right way" now. ::)
Larussa will be ready to trade Anderson, Jimenez, and Robert a week into training camp.
As has already been pointed out, LaRussa managed Rickey Henderson, not to mention Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire. I don't think TA, Eloy or Luis Robert (who's in this conversation why?) compare to that trifecta.
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Breaking news!! White Sox just signed Harold Baines to a 3 year, 90 million dollar contract.
Jerry R: “Last year, right field was a problem for us, basically a black hole. Now we’ve got a Hall of Famer out there and we’ve locked him up long term. Tony sees him hitting 4th, between Abreu and Jiminez.”
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At least the Chicago Bears are 5-2! **Ducks**
Yep. Almost everyone agrees that they’re way better than the Falcons!
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As has already been pointed out, LaRussa managed Rickey Henderson, not to mention Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire. I don't think TA, Eloy or Luis Robert (who's in this conversation why?) compare to that trifecta.
https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Steamed-La-Russa-rips-Rickey-3133858.php
(https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Steamed-La-Russa-rips-Rickey-3133858.php)
Again, this was 25 years ago, but let's not pretend like Rickey and Tony always got along.
Rickey wanted "mental health days" during his third, and final, stint with the A's. "The most accurate way to describe it is, he's "mentally unavailable,' though he's physically fine," said La Russa.
"I believe he's got special talents, he's done some great things in baseball . . . but he's not a great player.
"To be a great player in a team game, you've got to be as interested in the team as you are in yourself . . . and that piece is missing with Rickey."
"He's got a couple of years left, maybe be can change it. But right now, he's not a great player."
"The longer I get into the day, the angrier I get," he said. "Here's Cal (Ripken) playing 2,125 and we've got "unavailable.' "
"I'm trying to separate Rickey from the other 24 guys . . . He's putting himself in a position where he's embarrassing himself and his team and he's put me in a position where I'm going to have to embarrass him.
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I’m going to leave the President age issue aside (I believe it is an issue, but I’ll digress), but my dad is 70. He just had his knees replaced and falls asleep at like 7:30 every night. I love my dad, but it’s good that he is retired.
Jack McKeon was old and won a title, but I just can’t grasp how a 76 year old is going to have the physical and mental energy to do this job. I remember in LaRussa’s last managerial season in the playoffs when he mistakenly called in Lance Lynn, got to the mound and asked Lynn “what are you doing out here?”.
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https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Steamed-La-Russa-rips-Rickey-3133858.php
(https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Steamed-La-Russa-rips-Rickey-3133858.php)
Again, this was 25 years ago, but let's not pretend like Rickey and Tony always got along.
Who said anything about always getting along? Or needing to, for that matter. Since when have players and coaches being besties become an essential ingredient to success?
What scares me about LaRussa is that he's been away from the game for so long that he doesn't know the players, and that, at his age, he doesn't have the stamina to put in the work necessary to manage a team for 162 games (hopefully) and the playoffs (hopefully).
What doesn't scare me at all is how "he relates today's players." That's sports talk radio nonsense that has somewhere between zero and almost zero impact on the game. If LaRussa is making good decisions that are putting his players in position to succeed, they'll relate to him just fine. If he's making bad decisions that cost the team games, they won't want to play for him, no matter how chummy he is in the clubhouse.
The fact is, LaRussa has dealt with outsized personalities and hugely inflated egos on a scale far greater than he will with the White Sox, and he won a lot of games with those guys. The idea that Tim Anderson flipping his bat or Eloy Jiminez admiring his shot is going to be an issue, much less fracture the clubhouse and bring the season crashing down, is just plain dumb.
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Yep. Almost everyone agrees that they’re way better than the Falcons!
Their record is way better. They are certainly not a way better football team.
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https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Steamed-La-Russa-rips-Rickey-3133858.php
(https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Steamed-La-Russa-rips-Rickey-3133858.php)
Again, this was 25 years ago, but let's not pretend like Rickey and Tony always got along.
Rickey wanted "mental health days" during his third, and final, stint with the A's. "The most accurate way to describe it is, he's "mentally unavailable,' though he's physically fine," said La Russa.
"I believe he's got special talents, he's done some great things in baseball . . . but he's not a great player.
"To be a great player in a team game, you've got to be as interested in the team as you are in yourself . . . and that piece is missing with Rickey."
"He's got a couple of years left, maybe be can change it. But right now, he's not a great player."
"The longer I get into the day, the angrier I get," he said. "Here's Cal (Ripken) playing 2,125 and we've got "unavailable.' "
"I'm trying to separate Rickey from the other 24 guys . . . He's putting himself in a position where he's embarrassing himself and his team and he's put me in a position where I'm going to have to embarrass him.
Don't need to get along to have a working relationship.
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End of an era for the Brewers and Braun if NL doesn’t get DH next year.
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Adios mf'er, hey?
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Adios mf'er, hey?
Eh. Yeah there was the PEDs incident, but he's arguably the third best player in franchise history including its HR leader. By and large a good player and teammate. Not going to let that incident overshadow everything else he accomplished.
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Does the Crew retire Braun's number or do the PEDs keep that from happening?
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Does the Crew retire Braun's number or do the PEDs keep that from happening?
They will retire his number IMO.
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Kolten Wong became the first second baseman to win 3 consecutive fielding bible awards.
If any team is seeking an elite defender, good on base table setter with some pop, he is a free agent.
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They will retire his number IMO.
I'll tune in. I love Ryan Braun press conferences.
(https://i.insider.com/51e00e356bb3f76868000028?width=750&format=jpeg&auto=webp)
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Rays declined a $15MM option on Charlie Morton. He had really been considering retirement before joining the Rays, so I wonder if this is related. Signs say they are interested in bringing him back, but based on prior years $15M would seem to be roughly market value, and maybe a bit of a bargain - he's been really good. Maybe with covid and work stoppage uncertainty, the Rays just can't make that kind of outlay to anyone.
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Detroit signs AJ Hinch to be their next manager. I admit to a certain ambivalence. However, for now, I think I come down on the side of 'he had paid for his mistakes and it is now time to move on.'
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I can't wrap my head around this. Their friggin marketing slogan is "Change the game". The face of their franchise is Tim Anderson for crying out loud.
They have a young and exciting team. They have to fight for relevance in their own market and nationally. Hahn took years to put a plan in place to put a team together that is now on the brink. They just blow that all up today.
Hahn's press conference in announcing the dismissal of Ricky...everything said there goes against what they did today.
LaRussa is 76 years old, he's been away from the day to day portion of the game for over a decade, where the game has changed significantly. Covid is still going on, I mean the guy is going to be travelling and exposed. If nothing else, that's insane.
They didn't interview anyone else. No. One. Else.
This absolutely sucks. I don't know how to process this as a fan at all. This is like saving up for some fancy 30 year old Corvette, finally getting a chance to buy it, and then deciding not to insure it and buying tires from 30 years ago that worked on the car back then.
I don't know guys. Someone talk me off the ledge.
I think the biggest thing is the guy can flat out manage a baseball game. Sure, hes been gone a while but he knows how to win games.
I get the concerns that he may be out dated and not a great "clubhouse" manager for a young team like the Sox with players like Anderson. But id be willing to give it a shot.
Personally I'd rather have a great game manager than a guy thats great in the clubhouse like a Rocco Baldelli. Rocco can create an environment that keeps a talented roster focused for 162 games and into the playoffs but the buffoon can't do a single thing in game which in the long run results in big game L's
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Detroit signs AJ Hinch to be their next manager. I admit to a certain ambivalence. However, for now, I think I come down on the side of 'he had paid for his mistakes and it is now time to move on.'
Yeah if the players are going to still go unpunished. I'm fine with Hinch coming back after 1 year.
Suspend dirtbag Correa and please us all
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Eh. Yeah there was the PEDs incident, but he's arguably the third best player in franchise history including its HR leader. By and large a good player and teammate. Not going to let that incident overshadow everything else he accomplished.
Throwing the $8/hr. courier driver under the bus was enough for me to kiss the ass hole good-bye. What an arrogant jerk, aina?
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Throwing the $8/hr. courier driver under the bus was enough for me to kiss the ass hole good-bye. What an arrogant jerk, aina?
Sports guys are that way. Gave a lot of fun moments though. Can’t just judge a guy based on one incident.
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Detroit signs AJ Hinch to be their next manager. I admit to a certain ambivalence. However, for now, I think I come down on the side of 'he had paid for his mistakes and it is now time to move on.'
Tower
You’re ambivalent about AJ Hinch. If the Sox had signed him I’d be ecstatic. Alex Cora, same. Actually, I would have much preferred ex Tiger manager Ron Gardenhire to Tony LaRussa. He’ll, I’d rather have Ricky back than turn this young, talented team over to TL.
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Tower
You’re ambivalent about AJ Hinch. If the Sox had signed him I’d be ecstatic. Alex Cora, same. Actually, I would have much preferred ex Tiger manager Ron Gardenhire to Tony LaRussa. He’ll, I’d rather have Ricky back than turn this young, talented team over to TL.
Bringing the metal garbage cans to Detroit?
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Bringing the metal garbage cans to Detroit?
Meh. He didn’t start it, he didn’t even like it. He’s paid his debt to society.
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That is where I am, Lenny. And he has been in this spot before. A young team that needs to learn how to win.
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Meh. He didn’t start it, he didn’t even like it. He’s paid his debt to society.
He disliked it so much he allowed it to span two seasons. If only he were in a position of authority so that he could have done something to stop it. You know, since he disliked it.
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White Sox hiring Bill Veeck as an assistant to the GM.
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Brew Crew axed their social media department as a cost-cutting move.
Mark's gonna be running some Rachel Phelps sh*t with the spring training roster.
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Brew Crew axed their social media department
I’m nobody’s financial advisor, but that seems like a strange place to try to save money.
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Methinks baseball is going to have an off-season of a lot of cost cutting and free agents dangling in the wind
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Methinks baseball is going to have an off-season of a lot of cost cutting and free agents dangling in the wind
Yes. A lot of One year FA deals.
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White Sox hiring Bill Veeck as an assistant to the GM.
How was this missed? ;D
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Methinks baseball is going to have an off-season of a lot of cost cutting and free agents dangling in the wind
So, kind of like the last two offseasons?
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So, kind of like the last two offseasons?
Did the center field videographer get cut too?
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How was this missed? ;D
Everyone is so serious.
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Clearly the surprise of the night was Cardinal outfielder Tyler O'Neill winning a Gold Glove. Pre-season not even the most die hard kf Cardinal fans would have predicted that. Kolten Wong won again at second base which was expected, but not O'Neill. Interestingly enough, among the Hot Stove chatter...is the possibility of the Cards getting Joc Pederson and platooning him with O'Neill in a corner OF spot.
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Milwaukee Brewers pitcher Devin Williams was named National League Rookie of the Year.
A nice story about Devin last year:
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/goold-brewers-futures-game-rep-has-roots-of-his-power-revival-in-st-louis/article_e3843e53-8990-5dbb-bd08-62da6f9d3857.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
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Didn’t think the LaRussa hiring could get worse, but here we are.
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Didn’t think the LaRussa hiring could get worse, but here we are.
Yikes!
Chicago White Sox manager Tony La Russa charged with DUI stemming from February arrest, court docs show
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30288007/chicago-white-sox-manager-tony-la-russa-charged-dui-stemming-february-arrest-court-docs-show
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Didn’t think the LaRussa hiring could get worse, but here we are.
That was fast.
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So you’re saying he’s just an old drunk?
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Didn’t think the LaRussa hiring could get worse, but here we are.
Evidently charged the day BEFORE he was hired. And the Whites Sox knew. Awful just got more awful.
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Evidently charged the day BEFORE he was hired. And the Whites Sox knew. Awful just got more awful.
Yeah good grief. What a joke.
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Repeat offender.
White Sox knew it when they hired him, though, so it's all good!
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On the bright side, he was awake this time!
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There was really no defense to the hire other than Tony and Jerry are best friends. Every comment, column, tweet ripping the Sox is well deserved.
I doubt this is the second time Tony has been impaired while driving, it's only the second time he's been caught.
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TLR is such a dick.
Before searching his person and placing him in the rear of my patrol vehicle La Russa asked, “Do you see my ring?” I asked La Russa what he was talking about? La Russa stated, “I’m a hall of famer baseball person.” While placing him in the rear of my patrol vehicle, La Russa stated, “I’m legit. I’m a hall of famer brother. Your [sic] trying to embarrass me.” I advised La Russa that I will to embarrass him, and he would be treated with the utmost respect.”
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"I'm a hall of famer baseball person" is really an awesome quote.
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Just an old, crazy drunk.
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What a dirtbag.
And where’s Rob Manfred? This dirtbag tried to use his association with MLB to get out of committing a crime.
La Russa should be suspended and fined by MLB.
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"I'm a hall of famer baseball person" is really an awesome quote.
Add in “I’m a hall of famer brother” in a Hull Hogan voice and it’s perfection
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Kim NG is the new GM of the Miami Marlins, well earned, long overdue. She is also the first female General Manager in MLB:
https://twitter.com/Marlins/status/1327276960595243009?s=19
https://sabr.org/journal/article/dodgers-assistant-general-manager-kim-ng-ready-to-make-the-jump-to-top-job/
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Kim NG is the new GM of the Miami Marlins, well earned, long overdue. She is also the first female General Manager in MLB:
https://twitter.com/Marlins/status/1327276960595243009?s=19
https://sabr.org/journal/article/dodgers-assistant-general-manager-kim-ng-ready-to-make-the-jump-to-top-job/
LOL, couldn't they find better pictures of her than those? They looked like they were scanned from a newspaper in 1978.
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LOL, couldn't they find better pictures of her than those? They looked like they were scanned from a newspaper in 1978.
They have posted many.
https://twitter.com/Marlins/status/1327283976688578564?s=19
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I meant the sabr.org article.
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Kim NG is the new GM of the Miami Marlins, well earned, long overdue. She is also the first female General Manager in MLB:
https://twitter.com/Marlins/status/1327276960595243009?s=19
https://sabr.org/journal/article/dodgers-assistant-general-manager-kim-ng-ready-to-make-the-jump-to-top-job/
Here's the NYTimes' take for those with a subscription:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/13/sports/baseball/kim-ng-miami-marlins.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201113&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=44457&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
Long viewed as the person who would break baseball’s glass ceiling, Kim Ng was named general manager of the Miami Marlins on Friday, thus becoming the first woman in baseball history to lead a front office.
Ng, 51, was most recently M.L.B.’s senior vice president of baseball operations. In more than 30 years in baseball, she had been an assistant general manager for both the Yankees and the Los Angeles Dodgers, and earned praise at every stop.
“I entered Major League Baseball as an intern and, after decades of determination, it is the honor of my career to lead the Miami Marlins as their next general manager,” Ng said in a statement that accompanied the team’s announcement.
‘They Just Get It’: How Women in M.L.B. Found Support in a Group Text
In 2019, Jen Wolf felt a lack of support for women like her trying to find work in professional baseball. The group chat she started has become a rare place for mentoring and understanding.
In addition to being the first woman to lead an M.L.B. front office, the statement from the Marlins said Ng is believed to be the first woman to hold the title of general manager for any of the major men's professional sports leagues in North America.
I will be rooting for her.
Very happy for Ng. I will be rooting for her.
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Wow, Theo Epstein stepping down for the Cubs
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If Scholl hasn't already reached out to Theo Epstein.....
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If Scholl hasn't already reached out to Theo Epstein.....
Lol. Start up the baseball program now!
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He only had one more year, not likely to get contract renewed. Lots of change and uncertainties.
Epstein said he is sitting out next season as well. He can return post COVID-19 and see what big $ teams are available. Or he could be part of a new ownership group somewhere.
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Robinson Cano tested positive for PEDs for a second time and will be suspended for the entire 2021 season. What a dope
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Robinson Cano tested positive for PEDs for a second time and will be suspended for the entire 2021 season. What a dope
Literally pissed away $24 million.
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Robinson Cano tested positive for PEDs for a second time and will be suspended for the entire 2021 season. What a dope
Based on the reaction of Mets fans on WFAN the last 3 years they most likely will be happy he's suspended.
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Robinson Cano tested positive for PEDs for a second time and will be suspended for the entire 2021 season. What a dope
Well, at least we have a logical reason for his comeback last season.
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Well, at least we have a logical reason for his comeback last season.
That was my first thought.
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Wow, Theo Epstein stepping down for the Cubs
I think Theo could be a great MLB commissioner.
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I think Theo could be a great MLB commissioner.
I think he likes winning and competition and the challenge too much. If not somewhere like the Mets, I think there is a better chance he ends up in the FO of a team in a different sport than a Commissioner role.
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A tale of two teams, any guesses? A hint is that it is a current topic this past week.
Team A:
753 wins
9 winning seasons
4 Division Titles
6 playoff appearances
25 playoff wins
1 World Series appearance (loss)
Team B:
705 wins
6 winning seasons
3 Division Titles
5 playoff appearances
19 playoff wins
1 World Series (win)
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A tale of two teams, any guesses? A hint is that it is a current topic this past week.
Team A:
753 wins
9 winning seasons
4 Division Titles
6 playoff appearances
25 playoff wins
1 World Series appearance (loss)
Team B:
705 wins
6 winning seasons
3 Division Titles
5 playoff appearances
19 playoff wins
1 World Series (win)
Team B is the Cubs under Epstein. I'm guessing Team A is the Cardinals under that same time frame. If so, I never realized that they had 9 straight winning seasons. But I can't think of another team that would fit that description.
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Team B is the Cubs under Epstein. I'm guessing Team A is the Cardinals under that same time frame. If so, I never realized that they had 9 straight winning seasons. But I can't think of another team that would fit that description.
It is, those two teams during Epstein's 9 year Cubs run.
The Cardinals have long had an organizational philosophy of being "competitive" annually. They have had one losing season in the past 20 years. They wouldn't for example be a team to tank for draft picks etc ..which has also been a successful means to an end etc...different ways to do it. The Cardinals are a mid market team with higher revenue and higher spending than the typical mid market team. (Roughly 10th) 8-12 range. They would be similar to Atlanta in some $ ways. Tampa made the WS vs the Dodgers for a different compare and contrast example.
Some, perhaps many Cards fans would like to see changes etc...out of disappointment in the last stat of the above stats. Some, perhaps many Cubs fans have been pleased with winning the World Series and having more recent success. It's interesting.
(The Cardinals won the World Series in 2011, the season before what I included above 9 years, which was while Epstein was being hired. Epstein's first full Cubs season was the following year.)
It isn't likely to happen but I would like to see what Epstein could (and couldn't) do with a mid or smaller market team.
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A tale of two teams, any guesses? A hint is that it is a current topic this past week.
Team A:
753 wins
9 winning seasons
4 Division Titles
6 playoff appearances
25 playoff wins
1 World Series appearance (loss)
Team B:
705 wins
6 winning seasons
3 Division Titles
5 playoff appearances
19 playoff wins
1 World Series (win)
NM.
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Going to be an interesting 24 plus hours leading up to the tender deadline. Fascinating to see what the Cubs do with Bryant and if they really non tender him. I’ve mentioned on here pre-Covid that I’ve heard whispers that the Cubs had severe financial issues, and I (still) expect the Ricketts to sell before the end of this decade.
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Oh no! Not Schwarbs!!!!!
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Busy day for the Crew. Knebel to LA for future considerations. I'm guessing basically nothing if he doesn't make the team, as he was slated to be nontendered anyway. Nontendered Gamel, Claudio, and Jace Peterson. Agreed to slight pay cut deals with Arcia, Narvaez, Pina, and Vogelbach. Nothing too flashy, but shores up a lot of uncertainty about what the roster would look like. I especially like bringing back Arcia and Vogelbach - the upside on both are worth committing the money now. Even moreso with Vogelbach if the DH sticks next year. Only move I'm not a fan of is Narvaez, as I think I'd prefer to save the money and go into next year with Pina, Maile, and Nottingham. I know he managed some decent batting averages before coming to the Crew, but he makes surprisingly weak contact (he's never going to approach the 22 HRs he hit with Seattle again), his walk and strikeout numbers are going in the wrong direction, and his defense is poor. I think that Claudio out of the pen or Gamel as a solid fourth outfielder would both be more valuable to the team next year for the same or less money.
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Going to be an interesting 24 plus hours leading up to the tender deadline. Fascinating to see what the Cubs do with Bryant and if they really non tender him. I’ve mentioned on here pre-Covid that I’ve heard whispers that the Cubs had severe financial issues, and I (still) expect the Ricketts to sell before the end of this decade.
Bryant tendered. Could still trade him, of course.
As expected, Baez and Contreras were tendered. So were Happ and Caratini.
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Going to be an interesting 24 plus hours leading up to the tender deadline. Fascinating to see what the Cubs do with Bryant and if they really non tender him. I’ve mentioned on here pre-Covid that I’ve heard whispers that the Cubs had severe financial issues, and I (still) expect the Ricketts to sell before the end of this decade.
I hope they sell tomorrow. For four years, they've made it more and more clear they see the title as their ticket to coast and cash checks.
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Len Kasper leaving the Cubs to replace Andy Masur as the Sox radio play by play guy.
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Chris Myers (yuck) will replace Kasper in the Cubs tv booth. Jim Deshaies will still be the color analyst on tv with Myers.
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Chris Myers (yuck) will replace Kasper in the Cubs tv booth. Jim Deshaies will still be the color analyst on tv with Myers.
I haven’t liked the Cubs TV booth since.... I don’t really know; maybe pre-stroke Harry Caray?
I also don’t like the Marquee Network, think the Rickett’s are legitimately evil people, and disagree with almost all the changes made to and around Wrigley. I admit I’m basically left rooting for the laundry worn by the home team, but I still really, really like the Cubs.
I can’t picture most Cubs fans getting too upset over the swapping out of very vanilla announcers.
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I haven’t liked the Cubs TV booth since.... I don’t really know; maybe pre-stroke Harry Caray?
I also don’t like the Marquee Network, think the Rickett’s are legitimately evil people, and disagree with almost all the changes made to and around Wrigley. I admit I’m basically left rooting for the laundry worn by the home team, but I still really, really like the Cubs.
I can’t picture most Cubs fans getting too upset over the swapping out of very vanilla announcers.
From the initial reactions on Twitter this evening, I think you’re in the minority regarding your last comment.
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Len is a pretty solid play-by-play man. He's also a Marquette alum and, FWIW, a really good guy.
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I’m a huge fan of Len and JD. Announcers are part of the fan experience, and this is a big loss for the Cubs fan base. (Not a Cubs fan myself but enjoy their broadcasts immensely.)
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I’m a huge fan of Len and JD. Announcers are part of the fan experience, and this is a big loss for the Cubs fan base. (Not a Cubs fan myself but enjoy their broadcasts immensely.)
Huge blow. As Scoop aficionado Jimbo stated, I’ve never felt more disconnected from the franchise.
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Chris Myers? The Fox Sports Chris Myers? Eeeshhh....
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Chris Myers? The Fox Sports Chris Myers? Eeeshhh....
When the news broke last night, I had to look up to see if there was some random Chris Myers I didn’t know of, because I thought to myself “it can’t be that Chris Myers from Fox/ESPN”.
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If Len wants to do some offseason radio, how about his alma mater 90 minutes to the north?
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Chris Meyers has been part of (the bad) Marquee Network programming since the channel launched. During shelter-in-place he hosted a trivia show via satellite; during the season he has a roundtable with Lou Piniella and Mark Grace wearing suits.
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If Len wants to do some offseason radio, how about his alma mater 90 minutes to the north?
Len is a very good basketball announcer, many levels better than our current guy IMHO.
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Len is better than Homer?
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I haven’t liked the Cubs TV booth since.... I don’t really know; maybe pre-stroke Harry Caray?
I also don’t like the Marquee Network, think the Rickett’s are legitimately evil people, and disagree with almost all the changes made to and around Wrigley. I admit I’m basically left rooting for the laundry worn by the home team, but I still really, really like the Cubs.
I can’t picture most Cubs fans getting too upset over the swapping out of very vanilla announcers.
The Ricketts brought a title to the North Side, and while they may have taken a bit of the charm out of the surrounding area, the improvements to Wrigley were much needed and are largely well done (provided you’re not hell bent on the nostalgia of not changing anything.) Marquee is terrible and I don’t love all of his choices but I’d be hesitant broadly brush Tom Ricketts with the same moral brush as his father.
That being said, Len Kasper has been in the booth for more than 15 years for a reason. He’s a great PBP guy, does everything you want and has been fantastic in the role. This is a huge loss and continues the Cubs on a weird brand path of the last few years
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Len is better than Homer?
I think you meant to use a period instead of a question mark.
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Len is better than Homer?
Are there people who actually enjoy Homer as a PBP guy? I love his enthusiasm for MU, but that's about it.
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Len is better than Homer?
I'm gonna fess up that I've heard precious little of Homer. What I have heard has not impressed me, however. Len is a pro, that I know.
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I think you meant to use a period instead of a question mark.
I think he missed the exclamation point!
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I hope they sell tomorrow. For four years, they've made it more and more clear they see the title as their ticket to coast and cash checks.
Bump. Quick, sad bump. Len and JD are an incredible pair. This sucks
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Dick Allen died today.
Loved the guy from the time he was "Richie" Allen on the Phils to his later days with the Sox.
Great hitter. Career 156 OPS+.
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Dick Allen died today.
Loved the guy from the time he was "Richie" Allen on the Phils to his later days with the Sox.
Great hitter. Career 156 OPS+.
RIP to Dick Allen.
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Well earned, Adam Wainwright wins the Roberto Clemente Award. Nice piece on some of the many reasons why:
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/birdland/wainwright-wins-mlbs-clemente-award-sixth-cardinals-player-recognized-by-mlbs-highest-honor-for-charity/article_e4e3a5be-1a20-54cc-a3fc-85a64b1d1f0c.amp.html?utm_source=Post-Dispatch%20Baseball&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=Cardinals%20News&__twitter_impression=true
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Lance Lynn to Sox (waiting on what is going back to TX).
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Dane Dunning going to TX.
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Dane Dunning going to TX.
And maybe a second prospect, reports say. Really like what I saw from Dunning last year, but seems like a reasonable deal depending on the prospect.
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I liked Dunning but Lynn is a solid 2-3 SP. I think I saw that he has one year left on his contract at 8 million. So a bargain, but a short term one.
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And maybe a second prospect, reports say. Really like what I saw from Dunning last year, but seems like a reasonable deal depending on the prospect.
I liked Dunning a lot to, but Lynn should be a solid #3.
I really wonder now what the Reds were asking for on Sonny Gray. Reports are the Sox ended up going with Texas’ offer over Cincinnati’s.
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LHP Avery Weems, the Sox 6th round pick in 2019, is the prospect going to the Rangers. Low-level prospect. Put up good numbers in 2019 fall league, but he's already 23.
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I liked Dunning a lot to, but Lynn should be a solid #3.
I really wonder now what the Reds were asking for on Sonny Gray. Reports are the Sox ended up going with Texas’ offer over Cincinnati’s.
Dunning looks to have quite a bit of upside, but you gotta make the deal.
I remember back when the Brewers' fans were wringing their hands over giving up #1 prospect Matt Laporta in the CC Sabathia deal a few years back.
These deals are no brainers.
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Nightengale and Garfien mentioned Adam Eaton both in tweets yesterday, should have known then this was coming.
I don’t like this move at all. Feels totally uninspiring and a bad fit.
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Nightengale and Garfien mentioned Adam Eaton both in tweets yesterday, should have known then this was coming.
I don’t like this move at all. Feels totally uninspiring and a bad fit.
The problem is Eaton is a perfect fit for a boring Tony LaRussa team.
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The problem is Eaton is a perfect fit for a boring Tony LaRussa team.
So, I'm entirely "meh" on the signing of Adam Eaton (though relieved it's a cheap, 1-year deal), but does anyone really believe a team featuring Luis Robert, Tim Anderson, Eloy Jiminez, Jose Abreu and a hopefully healthy Yoan Moncada is going to be boring?
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So, I'm entirely "meh" on the signing of Adam Eaton (though relieved it's a cheap, 1-year deal), but does anyone really believe a team featuring Luis Robert, Tim Anderson, Eloy Jiminez, Jose Abreu and a hopefully healthy Yoan Moncada is going to be boring?
Not to be all superficially moneyball-y, but I'd be a little more bullish on Eaton. With that lineup, you just need guys that can get on base and you can move around the lineup a little bit. Eaton won't cause a rush on jersey sales, and with La Russa there's every reason be suspicious of the old way of doing things, but the guy has a career .360 OBP, is only 32, and was hurt last year. He's got a little speed, hits left handed (everyone on that list is right handed except Moncada who is better switch vs RHP), and he does well against left handed pitching (.272, .351, .695). He's on an affordable one year deal. There's a lot to like.
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Not to be all superficially moneyball-y, but I'd be a little more bullish on Eaton. With that lineup, you just need guys that can get on base and you can move around the lineup a little bit. Eaton won't cause a rush on jersey sales, and with La Russa there's every reason be suspicious of the old way of doing things, but the guy has a career .360 OBP, is only 32, and was hurt last year. He's got a little speed, hits left handed (everyone on that list is right handed except Moncada who is better switch vs RHP), and he does well against left handed pitching (.272, .351, .695). He's on an affordable one year deal. There's a lot to like.
One glaring problem is that he wasn't just hurt last year. He's missed 217 games over the past four seasons. And his numbers have declined pretty dramatically since he was bit of a metrics darling during his first run with the ChiSox.
On top of that, he wasn't exactly the most popular guy in the clubhouse - among teammates or management - during his first stay in Chicago. Abreu, Yaz and Keuchel are likely strong enough leaders to overcome that, but it's not not a concern.
If this was the better alternative to giving a long-term, $15-20 million a year deal to Joc Pederson or Michael Brantley, I get it. But it's nothing to get excited about, IMO.
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I actually think they paid too much for Eaton. I didn’t love the idea of Pedersen or Brantley, and they were never going to pay Springer for 5 years.
I just don’t think Eaton at $7M is worth it, at $4 million, sure.
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I actually think they paid too much for Eaton. I didn’t love the idea of Pedersen or Brantley, and they were never going to pay Springer for 5 years.
I just don’t think Eaton at $7M is worth it, at $4 million, sure.
Agreed. He may be a 1 WAR player. Brantley, who is better in every way, would not cost a lot more than $7 million a year in the current financial climate.
Plus, Engel might be a better player than Eaton right now.
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Agreed. He may be a 1 WAR player. Brantley, who is better in every way, would not cost a lot more than $7 million a year in the current financial climate.
Plus, Engel might be a better player than Eaton right now.
Brantley was set to make $16 million this year. He may not get that again, but I don't think he's signing for one year/$7 million.
Engel may be a better player, but the Sox still needed another outfielder, and much preferably one who hits lefthanded.
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Thom Brennaman is back! (sort of)
https://sports.yahoo.com/reds-announcer-who-resigned-after-antigay-slur-hired-by-baseball-league-in-puerto-rico-210812105.html
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Not to be all superficially moneyball-y, but I'd be a little more bullish on Eaton. With that lineup, you just need guys that can get on base and you can move around the lineup a little bit. Eaton won't cause a rush on jersey sales, and with La Russa there's every reason be suspicious of the old way of doing things, but the guy has a career .360 OBP, is only 32, and was hurt last year. He's got a little speed, hits left handed (everyone on that list is right handed except Moncada who is better switch vs RHP), and he does well against left handed pitching (.272, .351, .695). He's on an affordable one year deal. There's a lot to like.
I think you’re right. He checks a lot of boxes (left handed bat, high OBP, veteran presence, recent experience with a world champion). IMO he becomes better/more valuable for the Sox than he might be elsewhere.
As Pakuni points out, recent injuries are concerning. Not too worried about the clubhouse - we already have proven leadership and he seemed to get along OK in Washington.
Not a big deal but the Sox got a little better today after getting a lot better yesterday. Hope there are more deals in the near future.
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Since Nightengale just hinted at it on Twitter, I’m guessing Liam Hendriks to the Sox is all but done.
For those new around here, anything Nightengale reports or hints at that is White Sox related is coming to Nightengale straight from Reinsdorf himself.
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Not to be all superficially moneyball-y, but I'd be a little more bullish on Eaton. With that lineup, you just need guys that can get on base and you can move around the lineup a little bit. Eaton won't cause a rush on jersey sales, and with La Russa there's every reason be suspicious of the old way of doing things, but the guy has a career .360 OBP, is only 32, and was hurt last year. He's got a little speed, hits left handed (everyone on that list is right handed except Moncada who is better switch vs RHP), and he does well against left handed pitching (.272, .351, .695). He's on an affordable one year deal. There's a lot to like.
Are age and injuries catching up, though? OPS+ has dropped 3 years in a row.
He also was one of the most hated guys in the Sox locker room. "I can say one thing about it: Eaton, nobody liked you in a White Sox uniform, in the clubhouse. OK?" Guillen said. "That's what I know. I'm just being honest."
Maybe Dish can speak to this.
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Are age and injuries catching up, though? OPS+ has dropped 3 years in a row.
He also was one of the most hated guys in the Sox locker room. "I can say one thing about it: Eaton, nobody liked you in a White Sox uniform, in the clubhouse. OK?" Guillen said. "That's what I know. I'm just being honest."
Maybe Dish can speak to this.
I’m not a fan of it, I don’t disagree with anything Jockey said here. I still feel like it’s $2-$3M too much. He’s regressed multiple seasons in a row, injured, and he’s an odd fit personality wise.
If the plan was to platoon someone with Adam Engel, why not wait out the market?
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Carlos Santana to KC on a two year deal for $17.5 mil. Would’ve been cool with the Brewers signing him to play 1B, but I’m guessing they didn’t want to give him that second year.
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Plus, hiz guitar playin' in da klubhause wood lusen da boyz up a bit, hey?
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Plus, hiz guitar playin' in da klubhause wood lusen da boyz up a bit, hey?
Oye Como Va
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I don’t think I even realized that they had All MLB teams, but having two relievers on First Team and one of them not being Devin Williams is a joke. Shortened season, but he was historically good. Heck, he received Cy Young and MVP votes as a non-closing reliever.
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I don’t think I even realized that they had All MLB teams, but having two relievers on First Team and one of them not being Devin Williams is a joke. Shortened season, but he was historically good. Heck, he received Cy Young and MVP votes as a non-closing reliever.
Honestly, it’s hard. Cause Williams stats are crazy. But then you look at Hendricks, his SO/W as a closer was like 12.5, that’s insane. And then ok maybe Nick Anderson, but dude had a .490 WHIP and an 8.67 SO/W ratio compared to Williams at .630 and 5.89 respectively. And they both had absurdly low ERAs.
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The Cleveland Baseball Team.
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The Cleveland Baseball Team.
They should just revert to the Spiders. It would be an awesome name.
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I saw a tweet tonight suggesting Cleveland Rocks :)
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About time.
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Life is good now, hey. I hope we still see Charlie Sheen. ;)
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Marquette alum Steve Rushin has a fun idea :):
Cleveland Grovers would honor club stalwart Mike Hargrove, President Grover Cleveland, HOF pitcher Grover Cleveland Alexander and The Monster at the End of This Book.
https://twitter.com/SteveRushin/status/1338317886499205121
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Redskins!
(What? Too soon?)
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There are a bunch of great historical names for Cleveland baseball. Their first name after moving to Cleveland was the “Cleveland Lake Shores” which is kind of amazing if not unwieldy. Also “Forest Cities”.
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I saw a tweet tonight suggesting Cleveland Rocks :)
My 1st thought was Cleveland Rockers - since their stadium is right by the Rock n Roll museum.
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The Lions. In homage to another professional sports franchise that is never going to win a championship.
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There are a bunch of great historical names for Cleveland baseball. Their first name after moving to Cleveland was the “Cleveland Lake Shores” which is kind of amazing if not unwieldy. Also “Forest Cities”.
So they’ll probably wind up with the “Red” or the “Blue.”
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The Lions. In homage to another professional sports franchise that is never going to win a championship.
But the team from Cleveland already has 2!
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So they’ll probably wind up with the “Red” or the “Blue.”
Yeah this is my concern too. Will they do something fun and interesting like the New Orleans Pelicans or Seattle Krakken?
Or will they go the Houston Texans or Washington Nationals route.
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But the team from Cleveland already has 2!
So do the Lions. Last one in 1957.
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My 1st thought was Cleveland Rockers - since their stadium is right by the Rock n Roll museum.
that was the name of their short-lived WNBA team
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that was the name of their short-lived WNBA team
That didn't stop Denver's MLB team from mimicking the name of their first NHL team.
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The Cleveland Steamers.
Named for the mist that comes off the Cuyahoga on a cold Cleveland morning.
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The Cleveland Steamers.
Named for the mist that comes off the Cuyahoga on a cold Cleveland morning.
Or the smoke that came off of lake Erie when it was on fire in the 80s.
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The Cleveland Steamers.
Named for the mist that comes off the Cuyahoga on a cold Cleveland morning.
I want to get something off my chest... Cleveland should dump this idea immediately.
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I want to get something off my chest... Cleveland should dump this idea immediately.
Are you a Cleveland (or Ohio) native?
I’m reminded of Sig Snopek’s ode to Milwaukee - Thank God This Isn’t Cleveland.
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I'm pretty firm in my belief that Cleveland is the most unfairly maligned city in the Midwest, especially coming from residents/fans of other Midwest cities not named Chicago. Its got very good food, especially ethnic in the various neighborhoods, a vastly improved downtown and amazing historical residential areas/near burbs. It as a mess in the 70s and 80s to be sure, but that has little bearing on now. The district around the former Q, Progressive Field, and the Casino is fantastic.
Ive heard multiple people from Milwaukee rip on Cleveland, which always amuses me, cause Cleveland has many of the same things that makes Milwaukee great, with even more history and scale at times.
That being said, The Cleveland River Fires would be amazing
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I'm pretty firm in my belief that Cleveland is the most unfairly maligned city in the Midwest, especially coming from residents/fans of other Midwest cities not named Chicago. Its got very good food, especially ethnic in the various neighborhoods, a vastly improved downtown and amazing historical residential areas/near burbs. It as a mess in the 70s and 80s to be sure, but that has little bearing on now. The district around the former Q, Progressive Field, and the Casino is fantastic.
Ive heard multiple people from Milwaukee rip on Cleveland, which always amuses me, cause Cleveland has many of the same things that makes Milwaukee great, with even more history and scale at times.
That being said, The Cleveland River Fires would be amazing
I agree. I was in Cleveland 2 years ago and was amazed at how different than it was 20-30 years ago. Great downtown area.
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I want to get something off my chest... Cleveland should dump this idea immediately.
Dis country bumpkin cees watt ya did der, hey?
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I'm pretty firm in my belief that Cleveland is the most unfairly maligned city in the Midwest, especially coming from residents/fans of other Midwest cities not named Chicago. Its got very good food, especially ethnic in the various neighborhoods, a vastly improved downtown and amazing historical residential areas/near burbs. It as a mess in the 70s and 80s to be sure, but that has little bearing on now. The district around the former Q, Progressive Field, and the Casino is fantastic.
Ive heard multiple people from Milwaukee rip on Cleveland, which always amuses me, cause Cleveland has many of the same things that makes Milwaukee great, with even more history and scale at times.
That being said, The Cleveland River Fires would be amazing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM
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My 1st thought was Cleveland Rockers - since their stadium is right by the Rock n Roll museum.
I like Cleveland Rocks better than Cleveland Rockers. You've already got a team song, plus you could do something with a Rock for a mascot.
Still think Spiders make the most sense. There are some good logos out there for Cleveland Spiders.
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I like Cleveland Rocks better than Cleveland Rockers. You've already got a team song, plus you could do something with a Rock for a mascot.
BUT! Then no Marty Jannetty day. :-\ So not sure the tradeoff is worth it.
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I like Cleveland Rocks better than Cleveland Rockers. You've already got a team song, plus you could do something with a Rock for a mascot.
Still think Spiders make the most sense. There are some good logos out there for Cleveland Spiders.
The mascot, the logo, the history. It really is an easy choice for me, but MLB is probably going to go with something more boring.
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Golden Eagles.
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Golden Eagles.
Rough Riders
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MLB to formally recognize Negro League records.
https://www.mlb.com/news/negro-leagues-given-major-league-status-for-baseball-records-stats
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MLB to formally recognize Negro League records.
https://www.mlb.com/news/negro-leagues-given-major-league-status-for-baseball-records-stats
About time.
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White Sox will sign Yoelqui Cespedes, brother of Yoenis and the #1 international prospect. He’s 23, maybe the RF they’ve been looking for (in a year or two).
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Josh Bell to the Nationals for 2 minor league pitchers.
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The Padres are about to make a real run at LAD’s consecutive division title streak.
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The Padres are about to make a real run at LAD’s consecutive division title streak.
Blake Snell was eyebrow raising. Immediately following that up by going right to Darvish is wild
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I’m shocked that’s all the Cubs got back for Darvish and Caritini, wow.
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I’m shocked that’s all the Cubs got back for Darvish and Caritini, wow.
Seriously. Not even one top 100 prospect.
These two SD trades show how well the Sox did with the Sale, Eaton and Quintana deals.
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To this untrained eye, it looks like the Cubs are dumping money. Maybe Herr Ricketts is selling the team.
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I’ve heard whispers for a few years now about the Cubs financial woes, and that eventually it was going to hit them hard and have mentioned it here a few times. Theo knew, I don’t think Kasper left because of it, but he knew too. It’s not a coincidence that they’re cutting costs and depleting the MLB roster after a year of Marquee.
To think that they fought hard to manipulate Bryant’s service time for a 7th year, and now year 7 is here, and he has limited value and they’re going to be a low 70 win team in 2021.
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I’ve heard whispers for a few years now about the Cubs financial woes, and that eventually it was going to hit them hard and have mentioned it here a few times. Theo knew, I don’t think Kasper left because of it, but he knew too. It’s not a coincidence that they’re cutting costs and depleting the MLB roster after a year of Marquee.
To think that they fought hard to manipulate Bryant’s service time for a 7th year, and now year 7 is here, and he has limited value and they’re going to be a low 70 win team in 2021.
Marquee has been a major flop and it was before COVID. Never should have left that deal to a Domer.
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@DanJFederico: The Cubs are also eating some of Darvish’s salary in this trade, according to a source
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@DanJFederico: The Cubs are also eating some of Darvish’s salary in this trade, according to a source
Whoops ...
@DanJFederico: I believe I got bad info on this part of the deal. Looks like the deal was a salary dump on the Cubs part. My apologies on that
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I’m shocked that’s all the Cubs got back for Darvish and Caritini, wow.
If that’s today’s market for a stud starting pitcher I hope the White Sox go after Castillo.
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I’m shocked that’s all the Cubs got back for Darvish and Caritini, wow.
As a casual observer of baseball outside the Brewers, doesn’t he have quite a bit of mileage on his arm? Not to mention he’s in his mid 30’s. He seems a risk to give up a lot for. I wasn’t surprised to hear the Cubs were trying to move him.
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Total salary dump by the Cubbies.
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Whoops ...
@DanJFederico: I believe I got bad info on this part of the deal. Looks like the deal was a salary dump on the Cubs part. My apologies on that
The Rays got 2 Top 7 prospects from the Padres for Snell. Cubs got a #5 starter and no Top 10 prospects for Darvish. Worse than just a salary dump.
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The Rays got 2 Top 7 prospects from the Padres for Snell. Cubs got a #5 starter and no Top 10 prospects for Darvish. Worse than just a salary dump.
In true salary dumps, where you are desperate to get rid of an extremely overpaid pitcher who has a lot of mileage on his arm, you don't have any leverage to get anything of note in return.
Darvish is a 34-year-old pitcher with a recent injury history and nearly $60M left on his contract.
Snell is 28, relatively low mileage, signed for the next 3 years at a relatively attractive $41M total.
Huge difference. Lots of teams want a pitcher - and a contract - like Snell. Few want a pitcher/contract like Yu.
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Sell the team Ricketts.
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Interesting going through Twitter to see David Kaplan saying what I’ve been hearing (for a while now) about the true Cubs financial troubles. I believe he’s the first person in Chicago media to mention it.
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Interesting going through Twitter to see David Kaplan saying what I’ve been hearing (for a while now) about the true Cubs financial troubles. I believe he’s the first person in Chicago media to mention it.
Open the books then. Is it financial troubles? or "Financial troubles"
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Cubs hire Jon Sciambi to replace Kasper. That's a freaking coup for them. He's very similar to Kasper in terms of style and humor. Not even really a step down, just different, and I think he'll vibe well with JD. I'll give the Cubs credit, they knocked it out of the park with this hire.
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Boog is one of the best. Tremendous hire.
The TV and Radio teams for both clubs are really strong. Chicago fans are lucky.
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So it isn't Chris Myers?
He really is a great hire for them. I spent some mornings this past summer watching him do KBO games and he was fantastic. Really has a good vibe for basketball play by play
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Only 104 more years until the NEXT Chicago Cubs World Series Championship.
The Darvish thing was a head-scratcher. As a long-time Cardinals fan, one could see from the outside that the biggest weakness the Cubs had was pitching. That's not going away anytime soon. Lester was past prime two years ago and I wasn't impressed with the rest of the staff. The team is becoming a typical Chicago Cubs team -- swing for the fences and hope the offense is just good enough to overcome weak pitching.
The NL Central will be a toxic waste dump this year. The Cardinals look like the 1960s era Los Angeles Dodgers -- if they hit .250 as a team (unlikely) it's a moral victory. The Reds are trying but have consistently been unable to produce a play-off caliber team. The Cubs are the Cubs and the Brewers and Pirates are, at best rebuilding.
Do we have a division winner with 83 wins this year?????
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As a long-time Cardinals fan, one could see from the outside that the biggest weakness the Cubs had was pitching.
The Cubs were 10th in team ERA and 21st in team OPS last season. As far as I know, these stats are the same for everyone, even long-time Cardinals fans from the outside.
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Yea, I don’t think starting pitching was the big issue for the Cubs. Their bullpen was a hot mess.
Also, I don’t know that the Brewers are rebuilding. Their roster has a bunch of turnover every year because of the one year flyers Stearns signs. Their core is still there. If they trade Hader and Woodruff for prospects, I’d say they are rebuilding.
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If Burns is relatively close to what he was last season, the Brewers will be competitive, mainly because the NLC is a bunch of bad baseball teams.
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With Hendricks, Davies and Mills - you have 3 guys who average in the upper 80's on their fastballs. Wonder when the last time that a team's top 3 starters all failed to average 90 mph.
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Lindor and Carrasco go to the Mets.
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With Hendricks, Davies and Mills - you have 3 guys who average in the upper 80's on their fastballs. Wonder when the last time that a team's top 3 starters all failed to average 90 mph.
And their best three starters at that!
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Lindor and Carrasco go to the Mets.
Wow
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Schwarber to the Nats.
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Good for Schwarbo but shocked to see him end up in the NL still
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Good for Schwarbo but shocked to see him end up in the NL still
I’d imagine the DH is sticking around in the NL.
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Tatis 11 years, $320M.
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I’d imagine the DH is sticking around in the NL.
Rumor is Soto is moving to RF, with Schwarber in LF.
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I’d imagine the DH is sticking around in the NL.
As of right now its expected to be gone for 2021 and almost certainly become a full time thing in 2022 when the new agreement comes into place.
They may get it for this year though
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Schwarbs is the epitome of a modern-day, $10 million ballplayer. Swing from the heels. Strike out a ton. Hit the ball a mile ... when you hit it at all. Draw some walks. Plod around the bases, one at a time. But at least he's a stiff in the outfield.
Seems like a good guy, and the Cubbies almost surely don't win the 2016 WS without him, so what the heck. Enjoy the payday, Schwarbs!
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That Liam Hendriks contract is interesting. At first I thought that was too rich for my liking, but first 3 years at $39 mil is really good value. Year 4 will either be an easy pick up option, or spread the $15 mil over time.
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That Liam Hendriks contract is interesting. At first I thought that was too rich for my liking, but first 3 years at $39 mil is really good value. Year 4 will either be an easy pick up option, or spread the $15 mil over time.
Same.
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Mets fire the GM they just hired a few weeks ago because he sent pretty gross texts to a reporter.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30737248/ny-mets-gm-jared-porter-acknowledges-sending-explicit-images-female-reporter-worked-chicago-cubs
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Mets fire the GM they just hired a few weeks ago because he sent pretty gross texts to a reporter.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30737248/ny-mets-gm-jared-porter-acknowledges-sending-explicit-images-female-reporter-worked-chicago-cubs
I just can’t understand the thought of after 60 unanswered text messages, the logical next move to someone is going to Google to send a explicit image.
Mets have now hired a manager and GM in the last two years that haven’t actually been around for a game.
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Lester joins Schwarber on the Nats.
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I just can’t understand the thought of after 60 unanswered text messages, the logical next move to someone is going to Google to send a explicit image.
Mets have now hired a manager and GM in the last two years that haven’t actually been around for a game.
Was this covered in the Mets employee handbook?
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Was this covered in the Mets employee handbook?
Cubs handbook....
Happened 5 years ago, Mets find out and in less than 24 hours, fire him.
Victim said she/lawyer told Cubs official about it, now Cubs denying.
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Cubs handbook....
Happened 5 years ago, Mets find out and in less than 24 hours, fire him.
Victim said she/lawyer told Cubs official about it, now Cubs denying.
Although he exited to the Diamondbacks soon after. Theo push?
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I just can’t understand the thought of after 60 unanswered text messages, the logical next move to someone is going to Google to send a explicit image.
It's about power and control. The person gets off on how they make the other person feel, not because they actually think sending dick pick will work.
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It's about power and control. The person gets off on how they make the other person feel, not because they actually think sending dick pick will work.
I agree in theory, however, after 60 odd texts over weeks not being responded to, not sure how much power they felt they had. This seemed like desperate delusion
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I agree in theory, however, after 60 odd texts over weeks not being responded to, not sure how much power they felt they had. This seemed like desperate delusion
Trying to think of an example where someone trying to exert power and control actually did so out of desperation and delusion.... Hmmmm...
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Don Sutton ... dead at 75 after a long battle with cancer.
From the MLB press release:
Sutton won 324 games over 23 big league seasons with the Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, Athletics and Angels. The durable Sutton, who ranks third all-time in games started, seventh all-time in innings pitched (5,282.1) and seventh in strikeouts (3,574), worked at least 200 innings in 20 of his first 21 seasons – with only the shortened 1981 campaign interrupting his streak.
Sutton went 12-12 with a 2.99 ERA in his rookie year – a year the Dodgers won the NL pennant – and by 1969 was one of the National League’s busiest pitchers – working 293.1 innings over 41 starts. Sutton earned his first All-Star Game selection in 1972, one of five straight seasons where he finished in the Top 5 of the NL Cy Young Award voting.
Sutton helped the Dodgers win National League pennants in 1974, 1977 and 1978, then won the league’s ERA title in 1980. A master of changing speeds and pitch location, Sutton led the NL in WHIP three times with the Dodgers from 1966-80 before earning another WHIP title in 1981 after signing a free agent deal with the Astros.
A stretch-drive trade in 1982 sent Sutton to the Brewers, where he pitched Milwaukee to its first American League pennant. He worked for his sixth postseason team in 1986 with the AL West champion Angels then returned to the Dodgers in 1988, retiring before the end of a season that saw LA win the World Series.
Only Cy Young and Nolan Ryan made more starts than Sutton, who never visited the disabled list during his career.
Following his playing career, Sutton called Braves games on TBS for three decades, then worked for the Nationals’ TV crew before returning to the Braves on radio.
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Trying to think of an example where someone trying to exert power and control actually did so out of desperation and delusion.... Hmmmm...
Brett Farve?
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I don’t think anyone is making the HOF this year.
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I don’t think anyone is making the HOF this year.
Rolen keeps improving his percentages and is on a path to perhaps get in. He’s ninth all time in Third Base WAR. The first seven are in the HOF, and the eight, Adrian Beltre will be when eligible.
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I don’t think anyone is making the HOF this year.
Me, neither. This should have been Schilling's year, but he has alienated too many people. Not sure about how is post-playing behavior should be considered when voting for him. His playing credentials warrant induction and he won various awards (including the Roberto Clemente Humanitarian Award) for his charity work while playing.
It wouldn't be a disaster as there are a folks awaiting an induction ceremony from last year.
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Rolen keeps improving his percentages and is on a path to perhaps get in. He’s ninth all time in Third Base WAR. The first seven are in the HOF, and the eight, Adrian Beltre will be when eligible.
Maybe, but I don’t think so. Last year Rolen was on 35% of ballots. The largest one-year increase ever is 26% (Luis Aparicio in ‘83). I don’t see Rolen showing up on 40% more ballots than last year.
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Maybe, but I don’t think so. Last year Rolen was on 35% of ballots. The largest one-year increase ever is 26% (Luis Aparicio in ‘83). I don’t see Rolen showing up on 40% more ballots than last year.
Rolen’s public vote jumped to 66.4% last year. He has been moving a positive direction to eventually have a path.
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Rolen’s public vote jumped to 66.4% last year. He has been moving a positive direction to eventually have a path.
I legitimately don’t know what the public vote is, but Rolen had the highest increase (17.6%) to get to 52.9% this year. Trending in the right direction, but a long way off.
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I legitimately don’t know what the public vote is, but Rolen had the hugest increase (17.6%) to get to 52.9% this year. Trending in the right direction, but a long way off.
I believe it’s those that make their ballots public.
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Rolen went from 35% to 53%. The others remained flat. He keeps his steady climb going.
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LaTroy Hawkins got 2 effen votes.
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After years of back and forth talks (literally), the Cardinals have acquired Nolan Arenado and $50 million from tbe Colorado Rockies for yet to be named prospects. (Ken Rosenthal)
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Not a fan of seeing Arenado in the NL Central. Let’s hope he channels is 2018 divisional series hitting.
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None of the players traded were among Baseball America’s Top 10 St.Louis prospects. That’s amazing.
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Baseball Reference lists Joc Pedersen as the player most similar to Kyle Schwarber. The Cubs should google “definition of insanity.”
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Not a fan of seeing Arenado in the NL Central.
Gee, I am!!!
Once again, normalcy is returned to the NL Central. The incredible shrinking Cubby Bear is a shell of his former self, as he goes on an expense diet and looks to finish only ahead of the Paltry Pirate.
The Brewer and the Red will put up a fight, but inevitably will be no match for the ferocious Redbird in 2021. Class of the division -- obviously. Class of the League -- Maybe (lookout little Dodger). World Champions -- Let's hope ;D
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None of the players traded were among Baseball America’s Top 10 St.Louis prospects. That’s amazing.
Damn Cardinals. Always seem to pull trades or prospects out of their a$$. Things just always seem to work out to their benefit. I’d say they live a charmed existence, but have to admit they’re run by damn smart people.
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Gee, I am!!!
Once again, normalcy is returned to the NL Central. The incredible shrinking Cubby Bear is a shell of his former self, as he goes on an expense diet and looks to finish only ahead of the Paltry Pirate.
The Brewer and the Red will put up a fight, but inevitably will be no match for the ferocious Redbird in 2021. Class of the division -- obviously. Class of the League -- Maybe (lookout little Dodger). World Champions -- Let's hope ;D
Being the best in the NL Central is a little like being the cleanest dirty shirt in the hamper. Of course anything can happen in a short playoff series, but to think the Cardinals are on the same plane as the Dodgers or Padres is fantasy. And if the Mets sign Bauer....
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The Arenado deal is pretty much a carbon copy of the Goldschmidt deal. Both put up awesome numbers in hitting friendly environments (I think Goldschmidt only played one year in AZ with the humidor), Goldschmidt was 31 and Arenado is 30, the Cards extended Goldschmidt for 5 years through age 36 season after the trade and Arenado has 6 years left on his deal through age 36 season. Both players are high floor guys who project to age pretty well, and the biggest question mark is/was how the power holds up after the trade.
It will be interesting to see if Arenado makes adjustments that mirror Goldschmidt's. Goldschmidt has seen drops in HR/FB ratio and ground ball rate since the move, and an increased line drive rate. He's trying to drive the ball more than hit HRs, but he's having trouble keeping his hard hit percentages stable.
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Being the best in the NL Central is a little like being the cleanest dirty shirt in the hamper. Of course anything can happen in a short playoff series, but to think the Cardinals are on the same plane as the Dodgers or Padres is fantasy. And if the Mets sign Bauer....
Lenny, I%u2019m pretty optimistic about this one. Arnando is the piece the Cardinals lost when Marcel Ozuna signed with the Atlanta Braves. The middle of the order will be nasty with Arnando, Goldschmidt, Molina and maybe Carpenter.
The challenge they now have is whether Dylan Carlson and Harrison Bader can hit for any kind of average. If they hit anywhere near .270, the Cardinals could be very hard to beat. About the only concern I have is mild concern about relief pitching.
This should be a good year for the Cardinals.
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Lenny, I%u2019m pretty optimistic about this one. Arnando is the piece the Cardinals lost when Marcel Ozuna signed with the Atlanta Braves. The middle of the order will be nasty with Arnando, Goldschmidt, Molina and maybe Carpenter.
The challenge they now have is whether Dylan Carlson and Harrison Bader can hit for any kind of average. If they hit anywhere near .270, the Cardinals could be very hard to beat. About the only concern I have is mild concern about relief pitching.
This should be a good year for the Cardinals.
Wouldn't call either of these two nasty middle of the order hitters...Unless nasty is more of a negative.
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Wouldn't call either of these two nasty middle of the order hitters...Unless nasty is more of a negative.
;D ;D thank you. Nobody is fearing a 38 year old light hitting Molina who hasn’t even been a top 10 hitter at his position for awhile and hasn’t had more than 45 extra base hits in a season since the early 2010s. And Carpenter was fearsome...4-5 years ago. He was mediocre in 2019, awful this last year, and on the wrong side of 35, I don’t imagine he suddenly starts ripping 30+ homers and spraying the ball again, unless he doesn’t quarantine with Victor Conte.
They have some really nice pieces are undoubtedly the class of the NL Central with Arenado. But tossing in Molina and Carpenter as reasons to fear that batting order is amusing
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Lenny, I%u2019m pretty optimistic about this one. Arnando is the piece the Cardinals lost when Marcel Ozuna signed with the Atlanta Braves. The middle of the order will be nasty with Arnando, Goldschmidt, Molina and maybe Carpenter.
The challenge they now have is whether Dylan Carlson and Harrison Bader can hit for any kind of average. If they hit anywhere near .270, the Cardinals could be very hard to beat. About the only concern I have is mild concern about relief pitching.
This should be a good year for the Cardinals.
Brother dgies,
Last year the Cardinals were bad offensively (23rd or 24th in runs scored). Good news was that the Pirates, Brewers and Reds were worse and the Cubs were barely better. In 2021, none of the Card’s competition will be better on offense and the Cubs and Bucs will be even worse. So a mediocre offense will probably dominate. But when Molina and Carpenter are integral to the offense it ain’t exactly “Murderer’s Row”.
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Being the best in the NL Central is a little like being the cleanest dirty shirt in the hamper. Of course anything can happen in a short playoff series, but to think the Cardinals are on the same plane as the Dodgers or Padres is fantasy. And if the Mets sign Bauer....
How good the Cardinals will or will not be in 2021 remains to be seen. But as you say, anything can happen in a short playoff series, so they don't have to be.
1 in 4 Wildcard teams have won the World Series since the Wildcard was first introduced.
Using your Cardinals example, they had several 100 plus win teams the past twenty years. Those teams were among the best teams in baseball. While very successful in the regular season, and having post season success, none of them, nor some of their other strong teams in that stretch, won the World Series.
The Cardinals did win the World Series with an 83 win team in 2006. They also won the World Series in 2011 with a 90 win Wildcard team. These teams of course will get more mention than the 100 win teams, or World Series losing teams in 2013, 2004, etc...or NLCS teams.
The San Francisco Giants won 3 WS Titles with high 80's to low 90's win teams. The L.A. Dodgers won their first WS Title in 42 years with a 43 win COVID-19 shortened season team, not their 106 or 104 win teams etc...they even lost some playoff series to the Cardinals in that drought.
What the Cardinals are good at, is being competitive. They have had one losing record in the past two decades. They spend top 10. They will never spend the most or least. They try to make team enhancing trades, sign free agents, and develop players. They have had more success and emphasis developing pitchers, but they have concentrated more on field players in recent years.
This past season, the Cardinals had a four run lead twice in what would have been a series clinching playoff game v San Diego, and lost a close game. That's how close it can go. It's the first time they have ever lost in the wildcard round. It's pobably a pretty good chance they will be competitive and in the mix in 2021 as they continue to define their roster. We'll see.
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Man, seeing a GM trade a possibly first ballot HOF-we and a a briefcase with $50mm in it for not even anyone in the cardinal’s too 4 prospects makes me question my Jesuit high school education. It’s like they were trying to get rid of Arenado
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Wouldn't call either of these two nasty middle of the order hitters...Unless nasty is more of a negative.
Carpenter has been in a late-career downturn, I’ll acknowledge. I am a bit more excited because he’s got someone hitting around him who is feared. Pitchers don’t challenge Carpenter when the guy behind him is a.220 hitter.
Molina is just a good clutch hitter. He may not start something but he sure finishes it.
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Man, seeing a GM trade a possibly first ballot HOF-we and a a briefcase with $50mm in it for not even anyone in the cardinal’s too 4 prospects makes me question my Jesuit high school education. It’s like they were trying to get rid of Arenado
They were. Simply a money dump - same as Darvish trade. It also probably loses Story for them after this season as well.
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The L.A. Dodgers won their first WS Title in 42 years with a 43 win COVID-19 shortened season team, not their 106 or 104 win teams etc...they even lost some playoff series to the Cardinals in that drought.
1988 was 32 years ago, and Dodgers broke that drought with a .717 regular season winning percentage, which would’ve tied the most victories in a 162 game season.
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1988 was 32 years ago, and Dodgers broke that drought with a .717 regular season winning percentage, which would’ve tied the most victories in a 162 game season.
Not sure how that changes the point. If your point is it takes a.717 win percentage to win the World Series, obviously that's not the case. The Dodgers have had eleven 90 win or more teams in that decades long span that didn't win the World Series, including a few 100 plus win teams.
Only 14 times in the past 51 years has the team with the best record won the World Series. (I included the shortened season Dodgers of 2020).
Go back to the original point. Teams don't have to have the best records to win the World Series. It's nice, and it can and does happen 22% of the time. Wilcard teams winning the World Series have a higher winning percentage than the the overall best record team.
In order to have a decent chance to win the World Series, you have to be good enough to get into the playoffs. One doesn't have to spend the most money or have the best record. The playoffs are a different entity altogether.
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Not sure how that changes the point. If your point is it takes a.717 win percentage to win the World Series, obviously that's not the case. The Dodgers have had eleven 90 win or more teams in that decades long span that didn't win the World Series, including a few 100 plus win teams.
Only 14 times in the past 51 years has the team with the best record won the World Series. (I included the shortened season Dodgers of 2020).
Go back to the original point. Teams don't have to have the best records to win the World Series. It's nice, and it can and does happen 22% of the time. Wilcard teams winning the World Series have a higher winning percentage than the the overall best record team.
In order to have a decent chance to win the World Series, you have to be good enough to get into the playoffs. One doesn't have to spend the most money or have the best record. The playoffs are a different entity altogether.
I’d argue you need to be good enough to make the Playoffs to have ANY chance of winning the World Series.
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The Arenado deal is pretty much a carbon copy of the Goldschmidt deal. Both put up awesome numbers in hitting friendly environments (I think Goldschmidt only played one year in AZ with the humidor), Goldschmidt was 31 and Arenado is 30, the Cards extended Goldschmidt for 5 years through age 36 season after the trade and Arenado has 6 years left on his deal through age 36 season. Both players are high floor guys who project to age pretty well, and the biggest question mark is/was how the power holds up after the trade.
It will be interesting to see if Arenado makes adjustments that mirror Goldschmidt's. Goldschmidt has seen drops in HR/FB ratio and ground ball rate since the move, and an increased line drive rate. He's trying to drive the ball more than hit HRs, but he's having trouble keeping his hard hit percentages stable.
This isn't even the first time the Cardinals have done this with Colorado. Matt Holliday had a better OPS+ (ball park adjusted OPS) in St. Louis than Colorado. 138 to 131. (100 being league average) That was over many seasons at both places. In a shorter sample size, Larry Walker, also played with both teams, had a 147 OPS+ in Colorado, and 134 in St. Louis. Pretty good for an aging player at the time.
Goldschmidt expanded his zone the most he ever had when he first arrived in St. Louis. It wasn't all that surprising trying a bit too much to contribute in a new place. It's common. His 2nd half numbers were much better than his first half numbers. And, this past season, his 142 OPS+ was as good as or better than his final three seasons in Arizona. He adjusted his pitch selection and patience, especially early in the count.
Back to Arenado. He put up .292/.349/.526 away from Coors Field at Central Division teams. In 90 AB's he's had .511 slugging at Busch. He has a pretty good chance to do just fine with the change.
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https://twitter.com/ConfirmedShoot/status/1355350015871430657?s=20
Matt
@ConfirmedShoot
Jan 29
Imagine being a Cardinals fan. Sitting in jail for storming the Capitol. No idea your team got Nolan Arenado.
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Brother dgies,
Last year the Cardinals were bad offensively (23rd or 24th in runs scored). Good news was that the Pirates, Brewers and Reds were worse and the Cubs were barely better. In 2021, none of the Card’s competition will be better on offense and the Cubs and Bucs will be even worse. So a mediocre offense will probably dominate. But when Molina and Carpenter are integral to the offense it ain’t exactly “Murderer’s Row”.
The Cubs offense will most likely be better this year unless they trade off more pieces, which is likely at some point this summer. Bryant and Baez were horrendous - that's extremely unlikely in a contract year. Rizzo and Contreras underperformed. Happ should be solid. Pederson has been a better hitter than Schwarber.
The Cubs main issue will be the rotation after the Darvish trade as it will be Hendricks, Davies and then most likely a pile of garbage.
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Kolton Wong to the Brewers.
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Who, hey?
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Kolton Wong to the Brewers.
Elite defensive second baseman, has won the past two gold gloves. Very popular player. Good for Kolten.
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Kolton Wong to the Brewers.
Does that move Huira to 3rd?
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Does that move Huira to 3rd?
1st or 3rd, depending on who else they sign and whether DH is in play in the NL.
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Elite defensive second baseman, has won the past two gold gloves. Very popular player. Good for Kolten.
In 217 career AB's in Milwaukee, Wong is:
.308/.373/.482
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In 217 career AB's in Milwaukee, Wong is:
.308/.373/.482
But he can't face the Brewers pitching staff right?
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1st or 3rd, depending on who else they sign and whether DH is in play in the NL.
Hiura has an unreliable arm. 1B or DH are his only legit options.