MLB Hot Stove 2019-20

[wadesworld]

Maybe.  But I agree with him.

Agreed. Just getting out ahead of it for those who think the millionaires are selfish while the billionaires continue to become more wealthy and can't take a hit without the millionaires also taking a hit.

[GrimmReaper33]

In today's world, I have no sympathy for billionaires fighting with millionaires.

Yep, this.  I'm always pro player in these negotiations/situations, but both sides are looking completely awful in this situation. 

Especially when it's guys like Scherzer complaining the loudest.  Oh, so you're only going to make $8 million this year for 82 games instead of $30 million (or whatever his actual numbers are)
Meanwhile, there are millions out of work who usually don't even make $40k a year just desperate to get back to work so they can get a steady paycheck coming in. 

I feel bad for the guys who are on the fringe, the AAAA type players, hoping this is the year they stick or get their shot in the bigs because rosters are going to be expanded.  I'm sure they feel awful for Scherzer..   

[buckchuckler]

Agreed. Just getting out ahead of it for those who think the millionaires are selfish while the billionaires continue to become more wealthy and can't take a hit without the millionaires also taking a hit.

You keep beating this drum, while literally no one has taken this stance.

[cheebs09]

Scherzer tone deaf.

An interesting thread about his comments.

https://twitter.com/eugenefreedman/status/1265978165798866949?s=21

[MUBurrow]

The way guys like Scherzer speak out sets the tone for the lower paid players under him. Similarly, the way that the most powerful and public labor organizations like the MLBPA exert their power sets the tone for how other unions and labor organizations are viewed in this country.  This constant boiling down of everything to absolute wealth is depressingly reductive, and no one does anyone making less than them a favor by rolling over becaause they "don't need the money."

You want emergency pay for essential workers? Geez, if only they had some sort of collective whereby they could pool their marginal influence on their employers to exert greater wage pressure than they can exert individually. But there is a suppressive effect to us all looking at successful examples of that and then saying "well they are successful and their constitutents make money, so screw em when their employers try to renegotiate contracts that are less than three months old."  If grocery store workers had a union and went on strike for emergency pay, I like to think we wouldn't all be saying "I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for grocery store workers who are still getting paid while other industries are laid off entirely."  These things need to be judged by the power dynamics and contractual realities, not by an arbitrary determination of when the absolute dollars are sufficient to just be mad at everybody. 

[MU82]

The way guys like Scherzer speak out sets the tone for the lower paid players under him. Similarly, the way that the most powerful and public labor organizations like the MLBPA exert their power sets the tone for how other unions and labor organizations are viewed in this country.  This constant boiling down of everything to absolute wealth is depressingly reductive, and no one does anyone making less than them a favor by rolling over becaause they "don't need the money."

You want emergency pay for essential workers? Geez, if only they had some sort of collective whereby they could pool their marginal influence on their employers to exert greater wage pressure than they can exert individually. But there is a suppressive effect to us all looking at successful examples of that and then saying "well they are successful and their constitutents make money, so screw em when their employers try to renegotiate contracts that are less than three months old."  If grocery store workers had a union and went on strike for emergency pay, I like to think we wouldn't all be saying "I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for grocery store workers who are still getting paid while other industries are laid off entirely."  These things need to be judged by the power dynamics and contractual realities, not by an arbitrary determination of when the absolute dollars are sufficient to just be mad at everybody.

I totally get what you're saying. I was a union guy for much of my career, too. But I do think there's a bit of a leap from the MLBPA to a grocery union, and I think most discerning people can make the distinction.

I also don't feel any "worse" or "better" for the players than I do for the owners; both always want more, as just about everybody does.

I do think those voicing their opinions should choose their words carefully, because most Americans have a lot more to worry about than some millionaire ballplayer feeling slighted or some billionaire owner feeling a tad less billionaire-y.

[GB Warrior]

Labor is labor. From a societal perspective, am I concerned with the MLB owners trying to share the costs and internalize profits? Not really. Max Scherzer and Blake Snell have multi generational wealth and will be just fine. Not so much for minor leagues and players under pre arb contracts.

I think the MLBPA and other players unions are bellwethers for the movement writ large, though, and I'd be concerned about macro shifts and new norms in labor movements.

Agree with 82 that the players have a messaging challenge, as most of us are not inclined to be sympathetic to the plight of millionaires.

Scott Boras' memo is a refreshing perspective of this challenge:

https://apnews.com/103a8516de52f487b57173992a558816

[The Sultan]

The players have a messaging challenge I guess, but you can't really counter an argument of "they make enough money already," or "there are thousands of people who would do what they do for free."

You really can't respond to those types of comments in any meaningful way - so you basically have to ignore them.

[Lennys Tap]

And the billionaire owners trying to cut salaries further for more profit?

What profits? Won't MLB will operate (if it operates) at a loss this year whether Scherzer is paid 15 million or 8 million? From a financial standpoint isn't the best outcome for the owners no baseball?

[Jockey]

In the NFL and the NBA, the league promotes its stars that is one way in which they grow their game.

MLB, on the other hand, has traditionally attacked its stars as greedy. It is now looking to blame star players for the lockout.

Rob Manfred has been terrible for the game, following the tradition of Bud Selig in helping the owners make mega-profits while refusing to promote the game.

Good for the owners and good for the game are two completely different things.

[BrewCity83]

What profits? Won't MLB will operate (if it operates) at a loss this year whether Scherzer is paid 15 million or 8 million? From a financial standpoint isn't the best outcome for the owners no baseball?

For the short term, for 2020, yes.  But the owners stand to lose more in the long run if they cling to this short-sighted view.  They're probably going to have to just suck it up and take their 2020 losses for the long-term good of the sport, and recognize the fact that they make their money on the appreciation of the franchise values over time.  They could potentially suffer huge losses if the game's popularity is damaged over this fight that will make this year's losses look like popcorn sales.

[🏀]

Scherzer tone deaf.

Yeah, but he's not wrong.

[wadesworld]

Yeah, but he's not wrong.

Agreed.

[🏀]

Agreed.

MLBPA has a small battle here and a massive war ahead of them.

I don't see how they come out on top.

[Jockey]

MLBPA has a small battle here and a massive war ahead of them.

I don't see how they come out on top.

I think you are spot on.

[Jockey]

Funny stuff. Judge dismisses libel case brought by Leeny Dykstra against a book by Ron Darling, saying:

"Based on the papers submitted on this motion, prior to the publication of the book, Dykstra was infamous for being, among other things, racist, misogynist, and anti-gay, as well as a sexual predator, a drug-abuser, a thief, and an embezzler. Further, Dykstra had a reputation—largely due to his autobiography—of being willing to do anything to benefit himself and his team, including using steroids and blackmailing umpires . . . Considering this information, which was presumably known to the average reader of the book, this Court finds that, as a matter of law, the reference in the book has not exposed Dykstra to any further "public contempt, ridicule, aversion or disgrace," or "evil opinion of him in the minds of right-thinking persons," or "deprivation of friendly intercourse in society."

[MU82]

Funny stuff. Judge dismisses libel case brought by Leeny Dykstra against a book by Ron Darling, saying:

"Based on the papers submitted on this motion, prior to the publication of the book, Dykstra was infamous for being, among other things, racist, misogynist, and anti-gay, as well as a sexual predator, a drug-abuser, a thief, and an embezzler. Further, Dykstra had a reputation—largely due to his autobiography—of being willing to do anything to benefit himself and his team, including using steroids and blackmailing umpires . . . Considering this information, which was presumably known to the average reader of the book, this Court finds that, as a matter of law, the reference in the book has not exposed Dykstra to any further "public contempt, ridicule, aversion or disgrace," or "evil opinion of him in the minds of right-thinking persons," or "deprivation of friendly intercourse in society."

That's great stuff.

[GB Warrior]

Funny stuff. Judge dismisses libel case brought by Leeny Dykstra against a book by Ron Darling, saying:

"Based on the papers submitted on this motion, prior to the publication of the book, Dykstra was infamous for being, among other things, racist, misogynist, and anti-gay, as well as a sexual predator, a drug-abuser, a thief, and an embezzler. Further, Dykstra had a reputation—largely due to his autobiography—of being willing to do anything to benefit himself and his team, including using steroids and blackmailing umpires . . . Considering this information, which was presumably known to the average reader of the book, this Court finds that, as a matter of law, the reference in the book has not exposed Dykstra to any further "public contempt, ridicule, aversion or disgrace," or "evil opinion of him in the minds of right-thinking persons," or "deprivation of friendly intercourse in society."

Legalese dunking is the best kind of dunking.

[Pakuni]

So ... MLB Draft talk?

Seems like all the mocks before today has the White Soc with either Patrick Bailey or Tyler Soderstrom. Then today, seemingly everyone switched their pick to Garret Crotchet. Either somebody knows something or somebody wants everyone to think they know something.

[Dish]

So ... MLB Draft talk?

Seems like all the mocks before today has the White Soc with either Patrick Bailey or Tyler Soderstrom. Then today, seemingly everyone switched their pick to Garret Crotchet. Either somebody knows something or somebody wants everyone to think they know something.

Love the Crotchet pick. Also fills a need as the Sox system could use a potential stud left hander. Hopefully he is Chris Sale, worst case Hader/Andrew Miller comp.

[Pakuni]

Love the Crotchet pick. Also fills a need as the Sox system could use a potential stud left hander. Hopefully he is Chris Sale, worst case Hader/Andrew Miller comp.

Like the stuff a lot, a little worried about durability.

Bummed that the Cubs took Ed Howard.

[withoutbias]

Love the Crotchet pick. Also fills a need as the Sox system could use a potential stud left hander. Hopefully he is Chris Sale, worst case Hader/Andrew Miller comp.

Being a historically dominant reliever for a couple years as a "worst case" would be pretty nice.

[tower912]

Detroit farm system is loaded with plus arms.    Glad to see them take a bat in Torkleson.

[Dish]

Being a historically dominant reliever for a couple years as a "worst case" would be pretty nice.

Sorry, I should have stated "worst case ceiling comp". Meaning they project him as a starter, but he could wind up as a late inning reliever.

[buckchuckler]

Love the Crotchet pick. Also fills a need as the Sox system could use a potential stud left hander. Hopefully he is Chris Sale, worst case Hader/Andrew Miller comp.

There has been some speculation that the Sox will under slot Crochet and take Jared Kelley overslot tomorrow.  Which would be great.