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Author Topic: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20  (Read 18745 times)

CreightonWarrior

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MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« on: November 21, 2019, 11:09:59 AM »
Yasmani Grandal to the White Sox on a 4 year deal.

Massive hit to the Brewers.

MUDish

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2019, 11:37:21 AM »
I'm glad the Sox didn't eff around this winter like they did last year. Yes, Grandal is expensive, but they have been sitting on piles and piles and piles of cash for years. They targeted Grandal early, and this year they were aggressive and not passive. If nothing else, I'm much happier than last offseason.

I've heard they've been enamored with Castellanos for months, I think I mentioned that here previously.

They won't break the bank for Cole, I'm sure the same applies to Strasburg, but I expect them to make some move for a pitcher (anything more than 3 years for Wheeler scares me).

Overall, good move today.
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ChuckyChip

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2019, 12:12:09 PM »
Massive hit to the Brewers.

It was widely expected that the Brewers were not going to resign Grandal, so not really a "massive hit."  Four year deal only really makes sense in the AL where he can DH.  Brewers will use the money saved elsewhere.

jficke13

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2019, 12:28:50 PM »
I enjoyed Yas on the Brewers last year. It's probably unreasonable to expect anything other than a sharp dropoff in offensive production at the 2. Hopefully they can find a diamond in the rough that plays good defense and is replacement level at the plate.

WI inferiority Complexes

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2019, 12:36:41 PM »
Grandal's best chance for a 4-year deal was probably in the AL< where he can DH most (all?) of years 3 and 4.

The Sox could use a LH bat.  Seems like a nice pick-up.

Retire0

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2019, 01:32:19 PM »
It was widely expected that the Brewers were not going to resign Grandal, so not really a "massive hit."  Four year deal only really makes sense in the AL where he can DH.  Brewers will use the money saved elsewhere.

The massive hit is a 5 WAR player in a position that averages below 2.5 WAR.
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jsglow

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2019, 01:45:21 PM »
Good for the Sox.  There's no way the Crew could give him 4 years.  Anyone expecting Yaz to be anything more than a rental for the Crew was setting themselves up for disappointment.  They have young catchers in the minors.  Time for them to step up.

Lennys Tap

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2019, 02:44:10 PM »
I'm glad the Sox didn't eff around this winter like they did last year. Yes, Grandal is expensive, but they have been sitting on piles and piles and piles of cash for years. They targeted Grandal early, and this year they were aggressive and not passive. If nothing else, I'm much happier than last offseason.

I've heard they've been enamored with Castellanos for months, I think I mentioned that here previously.

They won't break the bank for Cole, I'm sure the same applies to Strasburg, but I expect them to make some move for a pitcher (anything more than 3 years for Wheeler scares me).

Overall, good move today.

Grandal, Castellanos (or maybe Kole Calhoun if they think they need another left handed bat) and 2 starters (Wheeler, Keuchel?) was my off season wish list. How about you (and other Sox fans - Pakuni, Buck, etc.)?

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2019, 02:44:55 PM »
Nice start for ther ChiSox, but should only be the start. Need to go get frontline starter (I'll continue to pound the table for Dallas Keuchel), a DH and a right fielder. Adding Grandal makes a guy like Calhoun or Castellanos acceptable in right, though I'd like to see them swing for the fences first and see if they can get Betts without giving up Madrigal or Vaughn in return (or Robert and Kopech, obviously).

MUDish

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2019, 02:55:46 PM »
Nice start for ther ChiSox, but should only be the start. Need to go get frontline starter (I'll continue to pound the table for Dallas Keuchel), a DH and a right fielder. Adding Grandal makes a guy like Calhoun or Castellanos acceptable in right, though I'd like to see them swing for the fences first and see if they can get Betts without giving up Madrigal or Vaughn in return (or Robert and Kopech, obviously).

I hate Calhoun, if they sign him, that'll be a big miss in my opinion.

I keep trying to piece a Betts trade together, and it's tough. One year of Betts obviously worries me, flip side is the price is lower without the long term commitment. I don't know if a Dane Dunning/Vaughn/something else package is good enough? Honestly asking, have no idea for a Betts rental.

In terms of their preference, outside Betts, I think your Sox starting RF next year is from Castellanos, Puig, Haniger.

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Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2019, 03:04:28 PM »
I hate Calhoun, if they sign him, that'll be a big miss in my opinion.

I keep trying to piece a Betts trade together, and it's tough. One year of Betts obviously worries me, flip side is the price is lower without the long term commitment. I don't know if a Dane Dunning/Vaughn/something else package is good enough? Honestly asking, have no idea for a Betts rental.

In terms of their preference, outside Betts, I think your Sox starting RF next year is from Castellanos, Puig, Haniger.

Agree the Puig is a real possibility, but I'd hate that more than Calhoun. I get that Calhoun has his flaws (starting with spelling Cole with a 'K'), but the one thing I like about his is that he's an above average right fielder, which would be a big help given the guy in the other corner. Puig/Castellanos in right and Eloy in left makes for a bad defensive outfield.

Haniger? Hmm. He was not good last year. Maybe at a bargain, but I wouldn't give up any potentially useful pieces for him.
Because of Boston's salary crunch and Betts impending free agency, I think he could be had on the cheap (relatively speaking), but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.

MUDish

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2019, 03:26:48 PM »
Agree the Puig is a real possibility, but I'd hate that more than Calhoun. I get that Calhoun has his flaws (starting with spelling Cole with a 'K'), but the one thing I like about his is that he's an above average right fielder, which would be a big help given the guy in the other corner. Puig/Castellanos in right and Eloy in left makes for a bad defensive outfield.

Haniger? Hmm. He was not good last year. Maybe at a bargain, but I wouldn't give up any potentially useful pieces for him.
Because of Boston's salary crunch and Betts impending free agency, I think he could be had on the cheap (relatively speaking), but that may just be wishful thinking on my part.

I’ve heard for a while they like Haniger, and I think they may try to buy low on him. Ideally, they’d like to address pitching first and then sign a RF. I’m not advocating Puig, I could see them doing that move though, feels very Sox like.

I have the same concerns, they defensively may be a mess next season, especially in the outfield.
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T. Jefferson

ChuckyChip

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2019, 03:37:55 PM »
The massive hit is a 5 WAR player in a position that averages below 2.5 WAR.

I guess my point was that no one expected the Brewers to resign Grandal, so the "massive hit" was already in the works the minute they signed him last year..no surprise.  Yes, he will be tough to replace, but he was never coming back.

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2019, 03:38:55 PM »
I'm glad the Sox didn't eff around this winter like they did last year. Yes, Grandal is expensive, but they have been sitting on piles and piles and piles of cash for years. They targeted Grandal early, and this year they were aggressive and not passive. If nothing else, I'm much happier than last offseason.

I've heard they've been enamored with Castellanos for months, I think I mentioned that here previously.

They won't break the bank for Cole, I'm sure the same applies to Strasburg, but I expect them to make some move for a pitcher (anything more than 3 years for Wheeler scares me).

Overall, good move today.

Whats your username on Soxtalk, Dish?
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Cheeks

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2019, 04:13:54 PM »
I hate Calhoun, if they sign him, that'll be a big miss in my opinion.

I keep trying to piece a Betts trade together, and it's tough. One year of Betts obviously worries me, flip side is the price is lower without the long term commitment. I don't know if a Dane Dunning/Vaughn/something else package is good enough? Honestly asking, have no idea for a Betts rental.

In terms of their preference, outside Betts, I think your Sox starting RF next year is from Castellanos, Puig, Haniger.

Kole is a very streaky hitter with some pop, but last few years avg suffered.  Plus arm and defender....makes some defensive gems that are under appreciated
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manesworld

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2019, 04:26:26 PM »
Kole is a very streaky hitter with some pop, but last few years avg suffered.  Plus arm and defender....makes some defensive gems that are under appreciated

AKA the same things that are happening to just about every hitter in baseball.

Retire0

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2019, 05:02:56 PM »
I guess my point was that no one expected the Brewers to resign Grandal, so the "massive hit" was already in the works the minute they signed him last year..no surprise.  Yes, he will be tough to replace, but he was never coming back.

Fair, agree
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Jockey

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2019, 05:17:52 PM »
Nice start for ther ChiSox, but should only be the start. Need to go get frontline starter (I'll continue to pound the table for Dallas Keuchel), a DH and a right fielder. Adding Grandal makes a guy like Calhoun or Castellanos acceptable in right, though I'd like to see them swing for the fences first and see if they can get Betts without giving up Madrigal or Vaughn in return (or Robert and Kopech, obviously).


Would you rather the Sox spend on TWO of the 2nd tier starters like Wheeler, Keuchel instead of just one + a DH and OF?

Lennys Tap

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2019, 05:23:32 PM »
I’ve heard for a while they like Haniger, and I think they may try to buy low on him. Ideally, they’d like to address pitching first and then sign a RF. I’m not advocating Puig, I could see them doing that move though, feels very Sox like.

I have the same concerns, they defensively may be a mess next season, especially in the outfield.

Betts is a dream but I don't think we're at the point where we trade real prospects for a one year rental.

My concern with Haniger is that he was playing poorly last year even before he was hurt. Loved the guy pre 2019, though. Maybe buying low works.

Castellanos has a good bat and is getting better (though still below average) in the field.

Puig intrigues me. Still has untapped potential - big bat, big arm - but obviously comes with baggage.

Calhoun is the best fielder (other than Betts) and he's a lefty which brings balance.

Some mention Ozuna but the last time I saw him he couldn't throw a ball from medium deep left field to second base.

Corey Dickerson is also a left handed bat I kind of like. Missed most of last year with an injury but crushed the ball when he came back late in the year. Don't know if he plays any D.

Pitching? Cole and Strasburg are probably out of our price range. Ryu has been injured an awful lot. Wheeler (5 at 20m per?) may also be a stretch. Keuchel probably is the biggest bargain in tier 1 or 2.

DH? Sox usually spread DH at bats around and get very little. Edwin Encarnacion on a 1 year contract?

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2019, 05:58:31 PM »
I think the Grandal signing is a great one, while he isn't a perfect player, he is a very good one, and dang near a perfect fit for what the Sox needed.  A switch hitter (thought the LHH part is important to the Sox), high OBP , good power player.  The fact that he can catch is icing on the cake.  I would guess he gets a lot of ABs at C, DH and 1B.  Add in that he is another Cuban?  Couldn't be a better fit.  He has also been training with Zack Collins since they were teenagers, which is kind of cool, but I think this may be the writing on the wall for Collins. 

As others have mentioned, this isn't enough though.  They need pitching.  I would feel really good about 2 SPs, though one will do.  Sounds like Wheeler is a high priority (though he seems to be for many teams).  I don't think there is any way the Sox play for Cole or Strasburg.  Wheeler is next on the list in terms of stuff, but is risky, and has a tough injury history.  Definitely would be an impact signing though.   Seems like he could get expensive too.  I agree with you Pakuni, on Keuchel, I think he fits pretty well and would be a solid addition to the rotation.

RF is certainly problematic.  I don't think that Betts makes any sense at all.  It wouldn't be worth trading any of the top guys for a year of him, especially since you're still paying 28 mil for him.  And beyond the elite talents, the depth guys in the Sox system were either injured or underwhelming last season.  I can't see how it works at all.  Haniger had a bad year last year, but I still don't see the Mariners selling low on him, which leads to the same problem.  For all the high level talent in the Sox system (Robert, Madrigal, Vaughn, Kopech, Cease) they aren't trading any of those guys, and their "B" level guys probably don't hold much value to other teams. 

I think Calhoun is the answer. (Dish, I'm curious as to why you hate him?)  He is a decent hitter, with ok discipline, and ok power and plays ok defense.  Hits from the left side. They don't necessarily need a star in RF.  They need a guy that can hold his own and not be a black hole.  Calhoun, and maybe Cheeks can confirm, but in my memory is super streaky, and when he's on, he can carry you.  For the Sox, they are looking for a guy to hit, what 6th or 7th?  It doesn't need to be a star.  A 20 HR, 30 2B guy with a .325 OBP would certainly do the trick.  I think, if it isn't Calhoun, it is probably Leury.  I don't know what other realistic options are.  I don't like Castellanos, because while he can certainly hit, I'd like someone that is a bit more of a defender, and I think he will be overpaid.  Same with Ozuna.  Maybe there is someone else available in trade, Polanco or Marte perhaps would be there, but I just don't see a ton of value in Sox prospects that are trade-able right now.  Guys like Adolfo, Rutherford, Dunning, Hansen, Burdi and Basabe all hurt their trade value last season. 

** Disclaimer on RF*** I know there are a couple of pretty high level players coming out of Japan this year that were posted that are RF type players.  I don't really know enough to say anything about them though, other than I am aware that they are out there.  Does anyone know if NPB has an MLB At Bat style App?  That's totally something I could get into. 

Honestly, I think their lineup is ok right now.   I am more concerned about the pitching.  So to answer Jockey's question, I would much rather sign Wheeler and Keuchel than add a RF and DH.  I think you could pass with rotating Abreu, Grandal, McCann, and Collins (Mercedes etc) through 1B, C and DH (at least leading up to the trade deadline).  I also think you could get by with Leury in RF.  Obviously some of this depends on Robert and Madrigal coming up and contributing, which as rookies, isn't a sure thing (though as a Sox fan and baseball fan, I am drooling waiting for Luis Robert.  Eloy was a monster in the minors, and Robert out did him pretty handily.  The kid slugged over .600 on the season.  Seems like a crazy amount of talent.).

I don't expect them to sign a big name to DH, as again, I think a lot of those ABs will go to Grandal and Abreu, and there aren't any huge DH names out there.  EE perhaps, but I'm not sure he is a great fit. 

All in all, great start to the off season for the Sox.  Rick and Kenny still have work to do, don't stop now boys.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 06:00:20 PM by buckchuckler »
Their= possessive of they
They're= slightly shorter than "they are"
There= the opposite of here

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2019, 06:01:23 PM »
I completely forgot about Puig.  Haha.  I kind of like it.  Just build that Cuban National team!  Can we trade for Cespedes as well?  -- Wait, is he still a thing?

Now that i joked about it, watch the Sox trade for Cespedes.

Ok another modification, just googled him, he's taking swings!  I'm officially all in on Cespedes, provided you trade nothing for him and the Mets pay for like 25 of his contract.  A 5 Cubano lineup??????  Do it for Minnie! 
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 06:07:00 PM by buckchuckler »
Their= possessive of they
They're= slightly shorter than "they are"
There= the opposite of here

Lennys Tap

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2019, 07:20:12 PM »
I completely forgot about Puig.  Haha.  I kind of like it.  Just build that Cuban National team!  Can we trade for Cespedes as well?  -- Wait, is he still a thing?

Now that i joked about it, watch the Sox trade for Cespedes.

Ok another modification, just googled him, he's taking swings!  I'm officially all in on Cespedes, provided you trade nothing for him and the Mets pay for like 25 of his contract.  A 5 Cubano lineup??????  Do it for Minnie!

Minnie was my favorite player as a kid growing up.

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2019, 07:29:23 PM »
By the way, I love the Reds getting Jose De Leon for basically nothing.  Could be a nice arm for them.
Their= possessive of they
They're= slightly shorter than "they are"
There= the opposite of here

Cheeks

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2019, 07:47:09 PM »
Fair, agree

Fan favorite here in Orange County, but Red was just too expensive for his output.
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Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2019, 07:52:10 PM »

Would you rather the Sox spend on TWO of the 2nd tier starters like Wheeler, Keuchel instead of just one + a DH and OF?

I think they need one second-tier guy, and then perhaps bring back Ivan Nova to push Lopez for the 5th spot. I say that expecting Kopech to come back healthy and Cease to improve upon last year, both of which seem reasonable. So that means Gio-Keuchel-Kopech-Cease as the top four with Looez, Nova and eventually Rodon rounding things out.

 

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