MLB Hot Stove 2019-20

[HouWarrior]

Honus Wagner was a SS.

sorry meant Rogers Hornsby...dont know why i often confuse those two

[Jockey]

sorry meant Rogers Hornsby...dont know why i often confuse those two

I think Hornsby is consensus #1.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

sorry meant Rogers Hornsby...dont know why i often confuse those two

Bruce Hornsby & The Range?

[Uncle Rico]

I didn't see Morgan in his prime and given the bigger personalities on the Big Red Machine, I didn't realize how good he was until I started reading Bill James stuff.  He was the complete package as a player.  Didn't much care for his announcing at the end but he was a voice of the game for a long time. 

[Pakuni]

The Wall Street Journal
@WSJ
Oakland A's executive Billy Beane, who led the "Moneyball" revolution in sports, is expected to leave his role with the team to become part of billionaire Boston Red Sox owner John Henry's sports empire on.

wsj.com/33T45OJ

[Lennys Tap]

I think Hornsby is consensus #1.

Top 10 by career WAR:

1 Rogers Hornsby
2 Eddie Collins
3 Nap Lajoie
4 Joe Morgan
5 Charlie Gehringer
6 Rod Carew
7 Robinson Cano (active)
8 Bobby Grich
9 Ryne Sandberg
10 Frankie Frisch

Jackie Robinson is #12, but how many years did he lose because baseball was segregated?

[nyg]

Joe Morgan dead.    Damn.   It has been a bad year for my childhood heroes.

Same here.

Frank Robinson last year

In like the last six weeks:

Lou Brock
Tom Seaver
Bob Gibson
Whitey Ford
Joe Morgan

Willie Mays is 89
Hank Aaron is 86
Sandy Koufax is 84
Orlando Cepeda is 84
Brooks Robinson is 83
Carl Yaz is 82
Billy Williams is 82
Pete Rose is 79
Tony Perez is 79

That's off top of my brain, sure others out there. That's a boatload of Hall of Famers. 

[MU82]

Maybe #1 once Javy moved over to SS.

Made me laugh.

[CTWarrior]

Top 10 by career WAR:

1 Rogers Hornsby
2 Eddie Collins
3 Nap Lajoie
4 Joe Morgan
5 Charlie Gehringer
6 Rod Carew
7 Robinson Cano (active)
8 Bobby Grich
9 Ryne Sandberg
10 Frankie Frisch

Jackie Robinson is #12, but how many years did he lose because baseball was segregated?

Jackie lost maybe one year to segregation.  He didn't play Negro League baseball until 1945.  Assume he started playing white organized baseball in 1945 it is safe to assume he'd have spent one year in the minors (like he did in 1946) and would have started in 1946.

Robinson was an amazing football player and track athlete and did not focus on baseball when he was a younger man and was really not anything like a finished baseball player in 1945.  He was an incredible athlete.  If he had focused on being a baseball player from the start and there was no segregation, he'd have probably gotten 5 or 6 more big league seasons before 1947, though even that couldn't have happened because of WWII.  He also could've tacked on another year or two at the back end of his career, but he was traded to the Giants and retired rather than play for the Dodgers arch-enemy.  That would never happen today.

[shoothoops]

Top 10 by career WAR:

1 Rogers Hornsby
2 Eddie Collins
3 Nap Lajoie
4 Joe Morgan
5 Charlie Gehringer
6 Rod Carew
7 Robinson Cano (active)
8 Bobby Grich
9 Ryne Sandberg
10 Frankie Frisch

And, Hornsby and Frisch were traded for one another. (nice little few decade run there for the Cards)

[The Sultan]

Jackie lost maybe one year to segregation.  He didn't play Negro League baseball until 1945.  Assume he started playing white organized baseball in 1945 it is safe to assume he'd have spent one year in the minors (like he did in 1946) and would have started in 1946.

Robinson was an amazing football player and track athlete and did not focus on baseball when he was a younger man and was really not anything like a finished baseball player in 1945.  He was an incredible athlete.  If he had focused on being a baseball player from the start and there was no segregation, he'd have probably gotten 5 or 6 more big league seasons before 1947, though even that couldn't have happened because of WWII.  He also could've tacked on another year or two at the back end of his career, but he was traded to the Giants and retired rather than play for the Dodgers arch-enemy.  That would never happen today.

If you normalize the WAR stat by doing a "per game WAR," Jackie Robinson is only second to Hornsby.  To put in perspective, Joe Morgan almost played twice as many games as Robinson.

[CTWarrior]

If you normalize the WAR stat by doing a "per game WAR," Jackie Robinson is only second to Hornsby.  To put in perspective, Joe Morgan almost played twice as many games as Robinson.

Yes, but by doing this you eliminate what would have been Jackie's learning years and his decline years.  The fairer comparison would be Jackie Robinson vs Joe Morgan's like age seasons, ages 28-37.  Do that and you get Joe ahead by a smallish 2.9% per game (63.7 WAR to 61.7 WAR-Joe played 3 more games).  Add that Joe added value in 8 other seasons, plus Joe played 99.4% of his defensive innings at second base while Jackie only played 56.5% of his defensive innings at 2B.  It is hard to argue he belongs ahead of Joe on a career 2B list. 

To say that Jackie had some real intangibles going for him, of course, is an understatement.  I'm surprised he came out so close to Morgan in the age 28-37 comparison, because that is basically the best portion of Joe's career. 

[wadesworld]

Dusty Baker winning a World Series with a sub .500 ball club would be the most 2020 thing ever.

[Jockey]

White Sox job is LaRussa's if he wants it according to Bob Nightengale.

Ugh!

[Pakuni]

White Sox job is LaRussa's if he wants it according to Bob Nightengale.

Ugh!

Key phrase in bold.
If we kept track of baseball reporters' accuracy like we do batting averages, Nightengale would be well below the Mendoza Line.
But I won't rule this out because Reinsdorf has had a boner for LaRussa ever since he fired him.

[cheebs09]

Key phrase in bold.
If we kept track of baseball reporters' accuracy like we do batting averages, Nightengale would be well below the Mendoza Line.
But I won't rule this out because Reinsdorf has had a boner for LaRussa ever since he fired him.

People were doubting Joe Morgan's death because Nightengale was reporting it.

When I saw LaRussa mentioned, I thought it was a joke. Can't imagine a worse fit for a young, up and coming team.

[Dish]

Key phrase in bold.
If we kept track of baseball reporters' accuracy like we do batting averages, Nightengale would be well below the Mendoza Line.
But I won't rule this out because Reinsdorf has had a boner for LaRussa ever since he fired him.

Agreed, if someone other than Nightengale starts reporting more, I'll believe it. Reinsdorf throws Nightengale rumors, so whatever favor is due to LaRussa here is weird. The guy is 76 years old, I don't understand the intent here to get LaRussa's name out there. They can't possibly hire the guy to manage this team in 2021. This whole story is bizarre, but is Reinsdorf-esque.

[Jockey]

Agreed, if someone other than Nightengale starts reporting more, I'll believe it. Reinsdorf throws Nightengale rumors, so whatever favor is due to LaRussa here is weird. The guy is 76 years old, I don't understand the intent here to get LaRussa's name out there. They can't possibly hire the guy to manage this team in 2021. This whole story is bizarre, but is Reinsdorf-esque.

I have seen a couple other tweets confirming that the Angels gave Chicago permission to talk to Tony.

[Dish]

I have seen a couple other tweets confirming that the Angels gave Chicago permission to talk to Tony.

I think that's just standard operating protocol for LaRussa and Reinsdorf/Kenny/Hahn to talk about whatever they have in mind for LaRussa, be it cashing in some favor to get LaRussa's name out there (would have no idea why), or to see if Tony is interested in retiring as a member of the Sox front office in some role.

I firmly believe Rick Hahn in no way, shape, form is hiring LaRussa. If LaRussa were a strict Reinsdorf hire, bypassing Hahn, then Hahn should quit immediately.

[Jockey]

I firmly believe Rick Hahn in no way, shape, form is hiring LaRussa. If LaRussa were a strict Reinsdorf hire, bypassing Hahn, then Hahn should quit immediately.

I agree 100% that Hahn would not hire LaRussa.

[Lennys Tap]

As a Sox fan, I was happy when they let Renteria go. Hinch or Cora would be great hires. LaRussa would be a disaster.

Can't believe they would go that route.

[shoothoops]

I think that's just standard operating protocol for LaRussa and Reinsdorf/Kenny/Hahn to talk about whatever they have in mind for LaRussa, be it cashing in some favor to get LaRussa's name out there (would have no idea why), or to see if Tony is interested in retiring as a member of the Sox front office in some role.

I firmly believe Rick Hahn in no way, shape, form is hiring LaRussa. If LaRussa were a strict Reinsdorf hire, bypassing Hahn, then Hahn should quit immediately.

I have two strong sources that can confirm this is a situation of one of your best friends calls and asks if you'd do it. 100% coming from Reinsdorf asking LaRussa. LaRussa has actually turned down several opportunities to manage again, sticking with front office positions for a few teams, also doing philanthropy, and some consulting work. He doesn't need his name out there. I personally would be surprised if it happened considering his age. His family stopped moving with him after Oakland. They settled there long ago. So, he splits his time between The Bay Area and wherever else he has to be for work.

[wadesworld]

Arozarena is on that 2011 NLDS Braun cycle.

[shoothoops]

Arozarena is on that 2011 NLCS Braun cycle.

Happy for Randy. He's hit at every level. Just needed a chance.

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/given-room-to-run-fastballs-to-mash-former-cardinals-prospect-arozarena-has-ignited-rays-in/article_b69f325c-f07a-5804-82e6-f03be305dc77.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

[MU82]

The guy is 76 years old

Yeah, that's no age for a baseball manager.

A U.S. president, obviously, but not a manager!

Seriously, though, didn't Jack McKeon come out of retirement at 70-something and lead the Marlins to a championship? And then, IIRC, he came back again when he was in his 80s ... but that didn't go as well.