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Author Topic: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20  (Read 280088 times)

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1125 on: June 20, 2020, 09:03:07 PM »
Nevermind.  You're not worth it.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 09:09:24 PM by Fluffy Blue Monster »
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buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1126 on: June 20, 2020, 09:09:18 PM »



And I believe I quoted Tony Clark, the head of the MLBPA, not the owners.  Does he speak for the union in your opinon?

Both sides are full of crap.  That was my point, and has been, I'm not surprised that is lost on you.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 09:11:03 PM by buckchuckler »

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1127 on: June 20, 2020, 09:11:11 PM »





I know they shouldn't be so easily swayed by propaganda.  But...you be you...<pats buck on the head>

Now run off and play nicely.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1128 on: June 20, 2020, 09:12:04 PM »



And I believe I quoted Tony Clark, the head of the MLBPA, not the owners.  Does he speak for the union in your opinon?

Both sides are full of crap.  That was my point, and has been, I'm not surprised that is lost on you.



Sure.  ::)
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1129 on: June 20, 2020, 09:17:39 PM »
Yeah, you're totally right.  I'm totally in with the owners.

Everyone gets it.  The owners are crapbags.  No one has once said otherwise.

Not that it'll do anything, but here is a petition to remove Rob Manfred.

https://t.co/g1O5vNRvGT

If anything, it seems like you bought the players propaganda.
I'd say you're better than that, but you're not. 
You were ignorant and wrong now you're throwing a tantrum. 

« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 09:21:08 PM by buckchuckler »

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1130 on: June 20, 2020, 10:07:23 PM »
Yeah, you're totally right.  I'm totally in with the owners.

If anything, it seems like you bought the players propaganda.
I'd say you're better than that, but you're not. 
You were ignorant and wrong now you're throwing a tantrum. 




Lol.  I guess when you’re caught being dumb you’ll just insult instead.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Jockey

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1131 on: June 21, 2020, 09:12:53 PM »
40 players so far tested positive.

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1132 on: June 21, 2020, 09:28:13 PM »

Lol.  I guess when you%u2019re caught being dumb you%u2019ll just insult instead.


I know they shouldn't be so easily swayed by propaganda.  But...you be you...<pats buck on the head>

Now run off and play nicely.
and

Nevermind.  You're not worth it.

You don't see any hypocrisy?

You never answered, do you think Tony Clark speaks for the union?  What do you think he meant when he said:

%u201CIt unfortunately appears that further dialogue with the league would be futile. It%u2019s time to get back to work. Tell us when and where.%u201D
You seem to think the players were not just grandstanding, seems pretty gullible of you.  Especially in light of what has happened since then.  And you're lashing out and patronizing seems hollow and desperate. 

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1133 on: June 22, 2020, 07:43:36 AM »
I think circumstances around this entire equation have changed due to circumstances outside of the control of either the players and owners, and also largely due to the owners actions themselves.

Sorry you can't see that.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1134 on: June 22, 2020, 07:46:50 AM »
Our governor in Florida was talking about baseball with fans in late June.

With fans.

Makes sense to me given what's transgressed in Florida.


This seems quaint.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1135 on: June 22, 2020, 09:26:41 AM »
I think circumstances around this entire equation have changed due to circumstances outside of the control of either the players and owners, and also largely due to the owners actions themselves.

Sorry you can't see that.

Hmmm, not answering direct questions, defending a ridiculous position, and now, is that goal post shifting? Is that the Chico trifecta?

And anyways, nothing about their not accepting the deal MLB proposed has anything to do with Covid.  If that's what you mean.  This arrangement is still contingent on safety measures and was only a framework on the financial details

It comes down to both sides wanting more money.  The players want to play more games and possibly wanting to be able to file a grievance.  For the owners they want to play as few games as possible and more playoff games.  They players didn't think the owners would go for full pro rated salaries, so they tried to make some BS moral point.  The owners gave them what they wanted, or at least the demands to which they paid lip service.  They got called on it and immediately back tracked. 

Both sides are being greedy and trying to not only win this particular deal, but also to give themselves better footing for the next CBA. 

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1136 on: June 22, 2020, 09:40:34 AM »
Hmmm, not answering direct questions, defending a ridiculous position, and now, is that goal post shifting? Is that the Chico trifecta?

And anyways, nothing about their not accepting the deal MLB proposed has anything to do with Covid.  If that's what you mean.  This arrangement is still contingent on safety measures and was only a framework on the financial details

It comes down to both sides wanting more money.  The players want to play more games and possibly wanting to be able to file a grievance.  For the owners they want to play as few games as possible and more playoff games.  They players didn't think the owners would go for full pro rated salaries, so they tried to make some BS moral point.  The owners gave them what they wanted, or at least the demands to which they paid lip service.  They got called on it and immediately back tracked. 

Both sides are being greedy and trying to not only win this particular deal, but also to give themselves better footing for the next CBA. 



I haven't shifted the goalposts one bit.  You can't see how the circumstances have changed.  I can't make you see what you don't want to see.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1137 on: June 22, 2020, 10:15:40 AM »

I haven't shifted the goalposts one bit.  You can't see how the circumstances have changed.  I can't make you see what you don't want to see.

Ok.  Even though this framework is for financial and game details, and isn't meant to address the concerns regarding covid.  In fact, they would probably need to come to an agreement on the details of the season before they could properly address protocols for Covid. 

And the players are clamoring for more games.  Hardly seems like covid is their primary concern here for this deal.  They aren't saying pump the brakes until we get this figured out.  They are saying we want more games. 

Not sure how the current covid spikes fit into that argument.




MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1138 on: June 22, 2020, 10:36:01 AM »
63 Games

12 each intra-Division
15 against Division in opposite league

BrewCity83

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1139 on: June 22, 2020, 11:08:32 AM »
63 Games

12 each intra-Division
15 against Division in opposite league

#Donedeal?
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Jockey

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1140 on: June 22, 2020, 11:08:50 AM »
Good to see that Sultan and Chuckler have continued their argument into another day.

Fascinating stuff, children.  :-\

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1141 on: June 22, 2020, 11:20:05 AM »
Good to see that Sultan and Chuckler have continued their argument into another day.

Fascinating stuff, children.  :-\

You're right.  Sorry.  I'm done.

Jockey

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1142 on: June 22, 2020, 12:35:00 PM »
You're right.  Sorry.  I'm done.

No prob. Many of us here, myself included, have gone down the argument rabbit hole.

muwarrior69

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1143 on: June 24, 2020, 07:22:11 AM »
Does this season count in the record books?

DegenerateDish

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1144 on: June 24, 2020, 10:09:10 AM »
Part of me is very excited to see the randomness of a 60 game season. If a team (say the Marlins) gets on a run early and goes 7-3 in their first ten games, they are in the hunt. Going 60 games, a team like the Cubs should go to a 4 man rotation. Over 60 games, a rotation of Darvish, Lester, Hendricks, Quintana could handle that workload. Why bother giving Chatwood potentially 12 starts?

I think the AL Central/NL Central teams near the top have an advantage towards making the playoffs. If you look at Pecota projections, three of the projected worse six teams this upcoming season are Central based teams (Tigers/Royals/Pirates). Let's say the Brewers schedule starts them off with a home stand against the Tigers, followed by the Royals, and then they were to go to Pittsburgh. If their schedule worked out that way, that's 9 games out of the shoot that they would be favorites in.

It'll be different for sure, hopefully Covid doesn't shut things down, but part of me is excited for sheer madness of this. It's Baseball 180, every game really matters, and we're going to experiment and see things we've never seen before.

wadesworld

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1145 on: June 24, 2020, 11:27:51 AM »
If you thought Counsell was a mad scientist before...
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The Lens

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1146 on: June 24, 2020, 11:37:28 AM »
If you thought Counsell was a mad scientist before...

 I love the idea of Braun DH-ing and Knebel and Hader in the pen for 60 games.
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buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1147 on: June 24, 2020, 11:51:50 AM »
Part of me is very excited to see the randomness of a 60 game season. If a team (say the Marlins) gets on a run early and goes 7-3 in their first ten games, they are in the hunt. Going 60 games, a team like the Cubs should go to a 4 man rotation. Over 60 games, a rotation of Darvish, Lester, Hendricks, Quintana could handle that workload. Why bother giving Chatwood potentially 12 starts?

I think the AL Central/NL Central teams near the top have an advantage towards making the playoffs. If you look at Pecota projections, three of the projected worse six teams this upcoming season are Central based teams (Tigers/Royals/Pirates). Let's say the Brewers schedule starts them off with a home stand against the Tigers, followed by the Royals, and then they were to go to Pittsburgh. If their schedule worked out that way, that's 9 games out of the shoot that they would be favorites in.

It'll be different for sure, hopefully Covid doesn't shut things down, but part of me is excited for sheer madness of this. It's Baseball 180, every game really matters, and we're going to experiment and see things we've never seen before.

Isn't it 60 games in 61 days?  If it is,  I would be surprised if any team really considered a 4 man rotation. 

DegenerateDish

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1148 on: June 24, 2020, 12:56:18 PM »
Isn't it 60 games in 61 days?  If it is,  I would be surprised if any team really considered a 4 man rotation.

What are you losing with it though? Expanded rosters, your bullpen horses are going to go more innings and pitch more often than ever before. The Cubs to me are the perfect team to try it, they are a veteran team, their staff is all seasoned vets. Their window is coming up against contract commitments, you might as well go for it. If you try it for the first 16 games, and it's not working, or you're out of it, then scrap it.

I think you're going to see way more experiments this year than ever before.

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1149 on: June 24, 2020, 01:29:13 PM »
What are you losing with it though? Expanded rosters, your bullpen horses are going to go more innings and pitch more often than ever before. The Cubs to me are the perfect team to try it, they are a veteran team, their staff is all seasoned vets. Their window is coming up against contract commitments, you might as well go for it. If you try it for the first 16 games, and it's not working, or you're out of it, then scrap it.

I think you're going to see way more experiments this year than ever before.

I think you're right about the experimentation, but I'm not sure four-man rotations will be common or wise.
I think it's less a matter of innings pitched than it is less rest between starts. Guys who are used to four and five days off between starts will be asked to do it on three. I'm theorizing that 90-100 pitches followed by 4-5 days off is easier on an arm than 70-80 pitches then 3 days off. Not only are you missing a lot of important recovery time, you're also doing away with bullpen sessions between starts, which are important for some pitchers.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2020, 02:53:18 PM by Pakuni »