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Author Topic: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20  (Read 280281 times)

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #225 on: December 11, 2019, 09:05:27 AM »
Sox were never going to offer that kind of deal to Cole.

As for Mazara, I think he's a very blah player, but I'm OK with what they gave up for him.
Walker as a 22-year-old slashed .284/.361/.451 in Single A last year.
Mazara as a 24-year-old slashed .268/.318/.469 in the majors last year.

Yeah.  I don't get the hate for this move.  Mazara isn't perfect, but he is a real good strong side platoon.  Still pretty young with a chance to improve, at very least he gives you a MLB caliber player, which they didnt last year.  And they traded a guy that was basically redundant in their system.

Lennys Tap

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #226 on: December 11, 2019, 09:13:59 AM »
Sox were never going to offer that kind of deal to Cole.

As for Mazara, I think he's a very blah player, but I'm OK with what they gave up for him.
Walker as a 22-year-old slashed .284/.361/.451 in Single A last year.
Mazara as a 24-year-old slashed .268/.318/.469 in the majors last year.

And matching the Yanks offer wouldn't have done it for the Sox. Probably would have taken 10 years, 360 million.

I don't mind the Mazara trade if the thought is to platoon him as a RF/DH . He rakes vs RHP. But only is they use the $ they saved on 2 good starting pitchers.

Lennys Tap

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #227 on: December 11, 2019, 09:20:21 AM »
Yankees may get him but I doubt at that number.

7/245 wasn't even in the ballpark.

MU82

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #228 on: December 11, 2019, 09:28:24 AM »
Probably would have taken 10 years, 360 million.


Jeesh! That's almost double what 'topper gets to moderate Scoop!
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WI inferiority Complexes

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #229 on: December 11, 2019, 09:48:28 AM »
But only is they use the $ they saved on 2 good starting pitchers.
They still have to use the "Machado money" from last year.

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #230 on: December 11, 2019, 10:48:15 AM »
Yeah.  I don't get the hate for this move.  Mazara isn't perfect, but he is a real good strong side platoon.  Still pretty young with a chance to improve, at very least he gives you a MLB caliber player, which they didnt last year.  And they traded a guy that was basically redundant in their system.

I think objectively the trade itself shouldn't move the needle much either way. They gave up a mid-tier prospect for a mid-tier major league player.
I'd guess the hate is more out of fear that this it all the Sox are going to come up with this offseason. In which case, the hate is justified. I like the Grandal move, but after another year of being promised that the Sox would be at the big boys table this winter, if Grandal, Mazara and maybe some back-of-the-rotation starter is it, fans will understandably feel Rick Hahn has become football-holding Lucy to our Charlie Brown.

DegenerateDish

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #231 on: December 11, 2019, 10:50:00 AM »
I know the Sox were never going to get comfortable going after Cole, totally get that. My thought is he’s the best pitcher on the planet, in his prime, it costs you nothing but money (no assets). Sox are ridiculously profitable,  nowhere near luxury tax, are close to contending, and have a need.

I know he probably signs elsewhere anyway. Sigh.

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #232 on: December 11, 2019, 12:24:14 PM »
I think objectively the trade itself shouldn't move the needle much either way. They gave up a mid-tier prospect for a mid-tier major league player.
I'd guess the hate is more out of fear that this it all the Sox are going to come up with this offseason. In which case, the hate is justified. I like the Grandal move, but after another year of being promised that the Sox would be at the big boys table this winter, if Grandal, Mazara and maybe some back-of-the-rotation starter is it, fans will understandably feel Rick Hahn has become football-holding Lucy to our Charlie Brown.

Completely agree.

Jockey

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #233 on: December 11, 2019, 01:17:56 PM »
Completely agree.

I agree on all of the opinions on Mazara. Just an OK guy, nothing more. But, he will replace the ABs of Cordell, Palka, Tilson, and Delmonico. THAT is a huge upgrade.

If this move (plus Grandal) is combined with getting at least one of the 2nd tier of starters, plus a piece or two for the bullpen, it will rate as a fairly successful off-season.

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #234 on: December 11, 2019, 05:53:08 PM »
Sounds like a Sox N Sox trade is in the works.  No idea what or how close or anything like that, but some David Price related scuttle.

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #235 on: December 11, 2019, 05:58:53 PM »
I agree on all of the opinions on Mazara. Just an OK guy, nothing more. But, he will replace the ABs of Cordell, Palka, Tilson, and Delmonico. THAT is a huge upgrade.

If this move (plus Grandal) is combined with getting at least one of the 2nd tier of starters, plus a piece or two for the bullpen, it will rate as a fairly successful off-season.

Agree on all counts. 

CreightonWarrior

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #236 on: December 11, 2019, 06:38:58 PM »
Brewers dipping back into that KBO pipeline. Sounds like Lindblom will be in the rotation. Won the KBO version of MVP and Cy Young last season.

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #237 on: December 11, 2019, 08:20:45 PM »
Yep. Except unlike lottery winners, deez dudes all have fookin' skills that no other humans have.

I tought dat was Ron Jeremy and Peter North,  aina?

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #238 on: December 11, 2019, 09:44:39 PM »
Angel's honing in on Rendon.

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #239 on: December 11, 2019, 09:51:25 PM »
And it's done.  Quite the running mate for Trout.  And with Adell coming, Ohtani coming back, if they can get a pitcher or two they could be something.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 11:23:31 PM by buckchuckler »

Lennys Tap

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #240 on: December 12, 2019, 06:40:31 AM »
And it's done.  Quite the running mate for Trout.  And with Adell coming, Ohtani coming back, if they can get a pitcher or two they could be something.

Same $ and term as Strasburg. IMO a guy like Rendon is a bigger impact on the regular season but a much smaller one in the playoffs. Think this will turn out to be a big overpay.

Cheeks

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #241 on: December 12, 2019, 08:19:19 AM »
And it's done.  Quite the running mate for Trout.  And with Adell coming, Ohtani coming back, if they can get a pitcher or two they could be something.

All comes down to pitching for us, which has been brutal with the insane Tommy John surgeries, and general lack of quality from the healthy ones.  On the other hand, we haven’t had a quality 3rd baseman in years and we blocked the Doyers from getting him which I love.  Offense I am not worried about...if they get two starting pitchers I will start to feel good.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

MU82

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #242 on: December 12, 2019, 08:59:27 AM »
I don't follow the Angels and don't pretend to be an expert on them (as hoopaloop does with the Panthers). But I did see a quote in which Moreno said he'd rather give big money to position players than pitchers.

How has that been working for him?

He bought the team less than a year after the Angels won their only championship (2002). Under his watch, they have never made it back to the World Series and have only reached the ALCS twice.

They haven't won a single postseason game the last 10 seasons -- despite having baseball's best player for almost that entire span. They have had losing records in 6 of those 10 seasons.

And the trend has not been their friend: Losing records the last 4 seasons, finishing 21, 21, 23 and 35 games out of first place.

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.” -- Albert Einstein
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Cheeks

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #243 on: December 12, 2019, 09:22:54 AM »
I don't follow the Angels and don't pretend to be an expert on them (as hoopaloop does with the Panthers). But I did see a quote in which Moreno said he'd rather give big money to position players than pitchers.

How has that been working for him?

He bought the team less than a year after the Angels won their only championship (2002). Under his watch, they have never made it back to the World Series and have only reached the ALCS twice.

They haven't won a single postseason game the last 10 seasons -- despite having baseball's best player for almost that entire span. They have had losing records in 6 of those 10 seasons.

And the trend has not been their friend: Losing records the last 4 seasons, finishing 21, 21, 23 and 35 games out of first place.

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.” -- Albert Einstein

Clearly you don’t know much about them as stated.  I don’t follow the Panthers, just listen to the experts I trus and see how many games they won with an injured Cam that the team kept shuttling out there vs a healthy backup....0 wins is 0 wins...poor play, etc.

As for Moreno, let’s put this in context.  The Angels in their entire history have won only 9 division titles.  I believe 6 of them have been with Moreno as the owner. 

Losing records the last four years...yes...but go a little deeper and two of them at 80-82, meaning one game from .500.  They also had the best record in baseball in 2014.   They have had more Tommy John surgeries since 2009 then anyone and by a huge number...lots of bad luck on that front.  Two promising starting pitchers dead as well.

His rationale is the pitcher helps you once every 5 days vs the hitter all year round.  Pitching is key, we all get it, but also more risky investment.  He went hard after Cole, he didn’t get him....he certainly values pitching, but you cannot always get what you want.  Let’s not forget he did get Ohtani, a pitcher and hitter.  Ther e are only two players I can think of that most Angels fans get on Arte for...Hamilton and Wells.  Pujols was a gamble to try and win it all in the first few years...they had the best record in baseball and ran into the Royals who swept every team in the AL until losing in 7 in the WS.  Albert is a model citizen, great clubhouse leader, community guy, etc.   Hamilton was awful.  Wells was awful.  He kept a trout when many experts said he was gone.  He got Simmons for a song.  Ohtani for a song.  Just bought the land from the city which will keep the team in OC and out of dreaded LA county for the next 50 years.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

MU82

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #244 on: December 12, 2019, 10:32:30 AM »
Clearly you don’t know much about them as stated.  I don’t follow the Panthers, just listen to the experts I trus and see how many games they won with an injured Cam that the team kept shuttling out there vs a healthy backup....0 wins is 0 wins...poor play, etc.

As for Moreno, let’s put this in context.  The Angels in their entire history have won only 9 division titles.  I believe 6 of them have been with Moreno as the owner. 

Losing records the last four years...yes...but go a little deeper and two of them at 80-82, meaning one game from .500.  They also had the best record in baseball in 2014.   They have had more Tommy John surgeries since 2009 then anyone and by a huge number...lots of bad luck on that front.  Two promising starting pitchers dead as well.

His rationale is the pitcher helps you once every 5 days vs the hitter all year round.  Pitching is key, we all get it, but also more risky investment.  He went hard after Cole, he didn’t get him....he certainly values pitching, but you cannot always get what you want.  Let’s not forget he did get Ohtani, a pitcher and hitter.  Ther e are only two players I can think of that most Angels fans get on Arte for...Hamilton and Wells.  Pujols was a gamble to try and win it all in the first few years...they had the best record in baseball and ran into the Royals who swept every team in the AL until losing in 7 in the WS.  Albert is a model citizen, great clubhouse leader, community guy, etc.   Hamilton was awful.  Wells was awful.  He kept a trout when many experts said he was gone.  He got Simmons for a song.  Ohtani for a song.  Just bought the land from the city which will keep the team in OC and out of dreaded LA county for the next 50 years.

I simply cited facts available to everybody.

Sad to hear that your ballclub is singularly snakebitten. Maybe Moreno needs to invest in 4-leaf clovers and rabbit's feet as well as overpriced hitters.

Angels have won as many postseason games in the last 10 years as Cam has won football games in the last 13 months, that much we can agree on.
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buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #245 on: December 12, 2019, 10:40:40 AM »
Look at this!  Cheeks and 82 poking at each other to start a pissing match in the MLB thread.  There's something new.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 10:45:44 AM by buckchuckler »

mu_hilltopper

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #246 on: December 12, 2019, 10:59:15 AM »
So .. this thread and the above people have been reported multiple times today.

The text isn't .. removable, nor bannable, so here I am typing words instead of eating Arby's, telling you guys to .. well, I don't know.  Stop antagonizing eachother? 

Glad we got that settled.

tower912

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #247 on: December 12, 2019, 11:52:21 AM »
Dayad!   Make MU82 stop touching me!    I did not!   He started it!   

Don't make me pull this message board or so help me.....
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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GB Warrior

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #248 on: December 12, 2019, 08:58:19 PM »
Crean Notre Dame The Ricketts suck

MU82

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #249 on: December 12, 2019, 09:19:33 PM »
Look at this!  Cheeks and 82 poking at each other to start a pissing match in the MLB thread.  There's something new.

It's a baseball thread and we're having a baseball argument. Compared to most of hoopaloop's stuff, this is a breath of fresh air

I just hope Rendon has a good curveball and slider. Angels had a 5.12 ERA last season, and no amount of hitting can overcome that.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson