collapse

* Recent Posts

2024 Transfer Portal by PGsHeroes32
[Today at 10:14:22 AM]


2024 Coaching Carousel by Uncle Rico
[Today at 09:52:19 AM]


Katz has MU in Final Four by Scoop Snoop
[Today at 09:51:44 AM]


10 years after “Done Deal” … It’s Happening! by Zog from Margo
[Today at 09:41:55 AM]


Big East 23-24 NCAA and NIT Results by cheebs09
[Today at 09:36:47 AM]


Pep Band/Cheerleaders by TallTitan34
[Today at 09:22:48 AM]


Chicago bars for Fri game by Bob "Big Daddy" Wild
[Today at 08:40:12 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!


Author Topic: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20  (Read 280127 times)

buckchuckler

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #325 on: December 21, 2019, 10:31:54 PM »
Sox need a bat and reliever still. It’ll be very interesting to see what they do with Andrew Vaughn.



Assign him to Winston Salem?  It'd have to be something huge to move him I'd think.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 10:34:13 PM by buckchuckler »

buckchuckler

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #326 on: December 21, 2019, 10:32:18 PM »
Jeff Passan is reporting Dallas Keuchel to the White Sox.

If true ...



Absolutely.

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #327 on: December 21, 2019, 11:24:04 PM »
Sox need a bat and reliever still. It’ll be very interesting to see what they do with Andrew Vaughn.

Why do anything with Vaughn?

DegenerateDish

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2531
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #328 on: December 22, 2019, 12:29:45 AM »
Why do anything with Vaughn?

My gut feeling is they’re making a trade soon.

buckchuckler

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #329 on: December 22, 2019, 12:51:31 PM »
My gut feeling is they’re making a trade soon.

I could be off base on this, but I would think, to trade Vaughn, it would have to be a pretty high level player.  There have been three mentioned and I'm not sure they make sense. 

Lindor:  Love him.  I'd trade anyone not Luis Robert to get him.  Vaughn, Madrigal ++.  The issue here, is that I'm not entirely sure that the Indians would trade him in the division.  You also have service time issues.  Lindor is a free agent in 2 years.  While the Sox will be better this year, and can likely contend in a soft AL Central, he may not be the best fit time line wise for the Sox, especially giving up 12+ years of control of two top 30 (ish) prospects.

Arenado:  Again, elite talent makes any team better so you want him.  I have been in Arenado's fan club here posting for years.  He is again tricky, because while he is signed long term, he has an opt out after 2 seasons, he is also signed at a market rate contract.  So you're paying him big bucks, trading elite talent, and he is able to walk right in the middle of what should be your competitive window.

Bryant: Same old song and dance.  Bryant brings less to the table defensively than the other two, but was back to being that middle of the order presence last season.  Best case scenario is that he is a free agent in 2 years, possibly next year (though I would be shocked if that is how his hearing turned out).

While all of these guys make your team better, and a lot better, timing wise I'm not sure you'd part with the players you'd have to trade to make it work ( I would expect all three of these guys would cost Vaughn/Madrigal/ ++).  The other issue (and albeit a minor one) is position.  The Sox are kind of set at SS and 3B.  You certainly move Anderson for Lindor and Moncada for Arenado (though Moncada graded out top 5 at 3B last season)  You could easily move either to 2B, or even RF.  Bryant is a trickier fit.  Moncada is likely a better fit at 3B, and neither Bryant or Eloy work in RF.  They could split time in LF/DH/1B with Abreu (obviously he wouldn't play OF at all).

Now they wouldn't necessarily need Madrigal if they move Moncada or Anderson to 2B, and they could make the move, but is taking a somewhat long shot swipe at the next two years worth sacrificing players or even just trade capital for the following 4?  I kind of don't think so.  Neither Lindor, Arenado or Bryant make the Sox better than the Yankees over the next two years?  The Astros?  The Dodgers?  Nats?  Braves?  A move like that has to be with a WS in mind.  I think the answer to some of those is probably yes, but a couple very notable nos as well.

Maybe someone else I haven't thought about or heard about is on the market (Snell?? TB is always willing to deal) but I have a hard time seeing a great fit.  Obviously I want the team to get better and to make the playoffs and make a run.  But we've had to sit through the swamp of this rebuild.  Don't deep 6 it by getting impatient now. 

I'm not against a trade with Vaughn or Madrigal (or anyone else not named Luis Robert)  or even both, but it has to be someone that makes the team better for more than just a year or two.

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #330 on: December 22, 2019, 01:40:00 PM »
Agree with pretty much everything buck said.
One name he didn't mention is Mookie Betts, but I'd give up a prospect like Madrigal or Vaughn only if Betts signed an extension as part of the trade.

Speaking of the BoSox, rumor had it they wanted Madrigal AND Vaughn for Price and Benedetti. Woof.

CTWarrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4072
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #331 on: December 22, 2019, 01:50:13 PM »
Agree with pretty much everything buck said.
One name he didn't mention is Mookie Betts, but I'd give up a prospect like Madrigal or Vaughn only if Betts signed an extension as part of the trade.

Speaking of the BoSox, rumor had it they wanted Madrigal AND Vaughn for Price and Benedetti. Woof.
I don't think you understand exactly how good Mookie Betts is.  I wouldn't trade him for both those guys if I knew I could sign him to a 8-10 year contract, let alone throw in Benintendi.
Calvin:  I'm a genius.  But I'm a misunderstood genius. 
Hobbes:  What's misunderstood about you?
Calvin:  Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #332 on: December 22, 2019, 02:03:53 PM »
I don't think you understand exactly how good Mookie Betts is.  I wouldn't trade him for both those guys if I knew I could sign him to a 8-10 year contract, let alone throw in Benintendi.

I don't think you read my post correctly 

Betts is awesome, but as awesome as he is, I'm not going to give up a top prospect for a rental.

buckchuckler

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #333 on: December 22, 2019, 06:34:46 PM »
Agree with pretty much everything buck said.
One name he didn't mention is Mookie Betts, but I'd give up a prospect like Madrigal or Vaughn only if Betts signed an extension as part of the trade.

Speaking of the BoSox, rumor had it they wanted Madrigal AND Vaughn for Price and Benedetti. Woof.

Yeah, I heard that rumored ask.  It is insane.  Here take our salary dump and give us top prospects!  What?  But I guess you have nothing to lose by asking.  Except maybe you scare away a suitor. 

I agree on Betts too.  Obviously a game changing talent.  Right there with Lindor (and a couple others) in the conversation for best non Trout player.  Doesn't make sense for the Sox to trade for him right now.  Especially with 1 year of control.  I'd say they could just sign him next year, but well, White Sox, so that isn't really a consideration.

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12220
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #334 on: December 23, 2019, 12:08:48 AM »
Ryu reportedly to Toronto - 4 years, 80 million.

GB Warrior

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2265
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #335 on: December 23, 2019, 09:26:03 AM »
Ryu reportedly to Toronto - 4 years, 80 million.

I was told this would be an incentive-laden contract.

Mr. Boras has done nicely for himself this offseason

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #336 on: December 25, 2019, 07:35:28 PM »
White Sox reportedly signing Encarnacion.
1 year/$12 million.

Jockey

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2016
  • “We want to get rid of the ballots"
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #337 on: December 25, 2019, 08:55:34 PM »
I was told this would be an incentive-laden contract.

Mr. Boras has done nicely for himself this offseason

My guess is that in 3 years, this will be seen as the worst contract given out this year. Not because of Ryu's abilities, but because of injury.

In the last 7 years, he has pitched over 126 innings only 3 times. Should he be expected to do what he has never done before - pitch 3 years of 180 innings?

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12220
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #338 on: December 25, 2019, 10:18:42 PM »
White Sox reportedly signing Encarnacion.
1 year/$12 million.

Solid. Sox should score a lot of runs in 2020..

WI inferiority Complexes

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #339 on: December 26, 2019, 09:39:34 AM »
The White Sox have become relevant again, and that is exciting for the city.

Can't imagine McCann-- in a walk year following an All-Star appearance, is too excited about Grandal taking his catching reps and EE platooning at 1B.

I think I'd rather they go after Puig, who can actually play a position.  But, it's hard to say the Sox aren't trying, which is all you can hope for.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 09:48:19 AM by WI inferiority Complexes »

The Sultan of Semantics

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 11512
  • "Private message me coward" - panda
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #340 on: December 26, 2019, 09:45:04 AM »
The White Sox have become relevant again, and that is exciting for the city.

Yeah...heard that before. Believe it when I see it.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

WI inferiority Complexes

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #341 on: December 26, 2019, 10:38:13 AM »
Up-to-date HOF Results:

Public Ballots:   59
Anonymous Ballots:   3
% of Ballots Known:   15.0%
"Last Updated: 12/26/2019 at 08:15 PST"   
Derek Jeter   100.0%
Larry Walker   85.5%
Curt Schilling   85.5%
Barry Bonds   75.8%
Roger Clemens   75.8%
Omar Vizquel   46.8%
Manny Ramirez   43.5%
Scott Rolen   40.3%
Todd Helton   35.5%
Jeff Kent           32.3%
Gary Sheffield   30.6%
Billy Wagner   29.0%
Andruw Jones   22.6%
Sammy Sosa   21.0%
Andy Pettitte   11.3%
Bobby Abreu   8.1%
Eric Chávez   0.0%
Rafael Furcal   0.0%
Jason Giambi   0.0%
Paul Konerko   0.0%
Cliff Lee           0.0%
Alfonso Soriano   0.0%
Josh Beckett   0.0%
Heath Bell           0.0%
Adam Dunn   0.0%
Chone Figgins   0.0%
Raúl Ibañez   0.0%
Carlos Peña   0.0%
Brad Penny   0.0%
JJ Putz           0.0%
Brian Roberts   0.0%
José Valverde   0.0%

buckchuckler

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #342 on: December 26, 2019, 03:26:32 PM »
Yeah...heard that before. Believe it when I see it.

Perfectly reasonably to be skeptical, and the Sox have been offseason champs before which led to nothing, but I love the changes they've made.  And while I tend to be an optimist, I think there is reason.

First of all, the guys they are replacing were pretty terrible.  Just the conglomeration they had in RF, DH and backup C combined for about -7 WAR.  The guys they had in the 4/5 spots in the rotation combined for about another -3.  The Sox have improved all these areas, not with replacement level guys, but with positive contributors.  Real damn MLB players.  Guys that amassed about 10 WAR last year.  I get that this isn't exactly how WAR works, but that's about a 20 game swing right there. 

They also have depth.  On the field and in the rotation.  While on opening day they will probably lineup something like Giolito-Keuchel-Gio-Lopez-Cease.  They have Kopech coming back.  He has the potential to be a top end starter in all of the MLB.  I'd say his ceiling is even higher than Giolito's, and he was 6th in Cy Young voting as a 24 year old.  They have Rodon coming back over the summer.  They have some other high end prospects coming back from injuries.  Cease making a jump wouldn't be a shock, Lopez being much more serviceable wouldn't be a surprise. 

They also have 2 of the best prospects in the game ready to break through.  Now, they have the normal prospect caveats, but for comparison, Eloy as a 21 year old in AAA OPSed an impressive .996.  Robert as a 21 year old at those same levels OPSed .974.  And he has elite speed and can play, by all accounts a ++ CF.

They also have Nick Madrigal coming, who in his first full pro season hit .311 and struck out 16 times in 532 PA.  He doesn't have much pop, but he can hit, run and again, by all accounts play one heck of a 2B. 

This is the first time in a while that it has been fun to be a Sox fan.

WI inferiority Complexes

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #343 on: December 27, 2019, 02:37:37 PM »
The White Sox have become relevant again, and that is exciting for the city.

Can't imagine McCann-- in a walk year following an All-Star appearance, is too excited about Grandal taking his catching reps and EE platooning at 1B.

I think I'd rather they go after Puig, who can actually play a position.  But, it's hard to say the Sox aren't trying, which is all you can hope for.
Maybe they are going after Puig, as well.

Mark Feinsand

Verified account
 
@Feinsand
 22h22 hours ago
More
According to sources, the White Sox remain engaged with the RF market despite this month's trade for Nomar Mazara. Yasiel Puig appears to be a primary target.

buckchuckler

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #344 on: December 27, 2019, 03:26:28 PM »
Maybe they are going after Puig, as well.

Mark Feinsand

Verified account
 
@Feinsand
 22h22 hours ago
More
According to sources, the White Sox remain engaged with the RF market despite this month's trade for Nomar Mazara. Yasiel Puig appears to be a primary target.

I have to say, I'd be surprised.  Mazara is fine for your 7th or 8th hitter especially if he is being platooned with Garcia.  Puig probably isn't worth the trouble, and really, I'm not sure why he'd want to go to a team where his role is the short side of a platoon. 

Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9875
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #345 on: December 27, 2019, 03:37:48 PM »
I have to say, I'd be surprised.  Mazara is fine for your 7th or 8th hitter especially if he is being platooned with Garcia.  Puig probably isn't worth the trouble, and really, I'm not sure why he'd want to go to a team where his role is the short side of a platoon.

That would seem like an unnecessary move. Would prefer Hahn focus whatever resources he has left on the bullpen.

+100 on your previous post. No guarantees that what the Sox have assembled ends up winning anything, but this is the first time since the late 80s Sox fans have had legit reason to be optimistic about long-term success built primarily around a core of players who've come up through their system.
 2020 success may depend a lot on guys like Grandal, Keuchel and EE, but longer term it'll be because Moncada, Robert, Eloy, Madrigal, Vaughn, Kopech, Gio, Cease, etc. are who we hope they are

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12220
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #346 on: December 27, 2019, 05:09:09 PM »
That would seem like an unnecessary move. Would prefer Hahn focus whatever resources he has left on the bullpen.

+100 on your previous post. No guarantees that what the Sox have assembled ends up winning anything, but this is the first time since the late 80s Sox fans have had legit reason to be optimistic about long-term success built primarily around a core of players who've come up through their system.
 2020 success may depend a lot on guys like Grandal, Keuchel and EE, but longer term it'll be because Moncada, Robert, Eloy, Madrigal, Vaughn, Kopech, Gio, Cease, etc. are who we hope they are

Totally agree. I give Hahn credit for executing a successful rebuild. And I give Kenny and Jerry some credit for staying out of his way.

WI inferiority Complexes

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #347 on: December 27, 2019, 06:42:10 PM »
Totally agree. I give Hahn credit for executing a successful rebuild
Little early to be calling the rebuild successful.

buckchuckler

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #348 on: December 27, 2019, 10:06:45 PM »
Little early to be calling the rebuild successful.

I could be wrong, but I think what he means is they haven't blatantly blown it.  They didn't trade Nick Madrigal for David Price.  They didn't trade Luis Robert for Starling Marte.  They didn't trade Andrew Vaughn for an overpriced, past his prime middle reliever (I'm looking at you Rockies...).

The rebuild hasn't been perfect.  Their drafting has still been just so-so.  Madrigal looks like a hit, Vaughn should be, but it is early.  Collins?  Who knows.  Burger hasn't played in 2 years, expecting him making AAA looks like a stretch.  Fulmer is at best a middle reliever.  Burdi looks like the rare guy that may not return after TJ surgery.  Their 2nd round picks look like long shots to make it, though they did turn one into Mazara. 

Even with that though, they look like they could be set up to be competitive for years.  They haven't been for a long time.  I can't wait for opening day, or more appropriately, Luis Robert day.

WI inferiority Complexes

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #349 on: December 30, 2019, 09:43:51 AM »
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/why-small-market-excuses-for-not-spending-from-teams-like-the-indians-and-brewers-dont-hold-up/?fbclid=IwAR1FoS3VpkT5I2q2rZxXIJjBAGny1rONHbfasE2jiBnlnFGGQ6sw77LiZYA

Why small-market excuses for not spending, from teams like the Indians and Brewers, don't hold up

"To different extents, the Brewers and Indians are choosing to do less than they should be doing. And, yes, it's entirely a matter of choice. Don't let them tell you otherwise."

 

feedback