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Author Topic: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20  (Read 280184 times)

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #425 on: January 14, 2020, 08:20:06 PM »
Interesting, though, is that the guy who got off the easiest was the richest guy. That almost never happens ;D ;D ;D ;D

Manfred has reacted to this crisis just as poorly as Selig did to steroids. Ignore, ignore; then when you can't ignore any more, act like you were the guy who cleaned things up. Threaten the other owners that if they complain about the lenient penalty, they will get a worse one. Selig redux!

Astros lost the most successful GM and coach in team history, four high picks and $5 million. Not sure how that qualifies as the owner getting off easy, especially when there's zero evidence he played any role or was aware of any of this.

Honestly not sure what else you'd expect.

wadesworld

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #426 on: January 14, 2020, 08:20:38 PM »
Astros lost the most successful GM and coach in team history, four high picks and $5 million. Not sure how that qualifies as the owner getting off easy, especially when there's zero evidence he played any role or was aware of any of this.

Honestly not sure what else you'd expect.

This is where I’m at.
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DegenerateDish

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #427 on: January 14, 2020, 08:32:42 PM »
The o/u in Sox/Twins games is going to be double digits most nights this coming season.

Cheeks

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #428 on: January 14, 2020, 08:44:55 PM »
Astros lost the most successful GM and coach in team history, four high picks and $5 million. Not sure how that qualifies as the owner getting off easy, especially when there's zero evidence he played any role or was aware of any of this.

Honestly not sure what else you'd expect.


You should listen to Doyers radio here, they are convinced that the owner knew absolutely everything. They want the championships stripped and given to the Doyers.  It was quite the shows this morning. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #429 on: January 14, 2020, 08:45:55 PM »
$5 mil is couch change for these owners - but it is the max allowed. They should have taken away draft picks for 5 years at least. They made so much money by cheating that they can afford to buy anyone they need.

Alex Cora should be banned for life. He was the instigator for rampant cheating for 2 teams now.

I realize it would be a battle to the death with the players union, but I can't think of any reason players shouldn't get long suspensions. MLB is sending out the message that some cheating is OK and some is not.

If a star is caught with steroids in his blood, he gets 80 games, which could cost him $10-415 mil. Why should they get a pass on this type of cheating?

Brandx....we agree. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Eldon

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #430 on: January 14, 2020, 09:02:34 PM »
Astros lost the most successful GM and coach in team history, four high picks and $5 million. Not sure how that qualifies as the owner getting off easy, especially when there's zero evidence he played any role or was aware of any of this.

Honestly not sure what else you'd expect.

Lifetime bans for all of them: Luhnow, Hinch, Beltran, Cora.  If possible, "official" asterisk on the WS win.

Cheeks

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #431 on: January 14, 2020, 09:10:09 PM »
Lifetime bans for all of them: Luhnow, Hinch, Beltran, Cora.  If possible, "official" asterisk on the WS win.

I wouldn't do the asterisk because then an asterisk should be by all the WS champs that had a player used steroids, etc, etc. 
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #432 on: January 14, 2020, 10:05:19 PM »
The o/u in Sox/Twins games is going to be double digits most nights this coming season.

They didn't get pitching, but they got an impact player.  Hell of a move.

MU82

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #433 on: January 14, 2020, 10:27:18 PM »
Astros corruption uncovered by reporters, of course.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Jockey

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #434 on: January 14, 2020, 10:59:10 PM »
Astros lost the most successful GM and coach in team history, four high picks and $5 million. Not sure how that qualifies as the owner getting off easy, especially when there's zero evidence he played any role or was aware of any of this.

Honestly not sure what else you'd expect.

What did the owner lose, though? His franchise made 100s of millions off of the cheating. Poor guy has to give 5 back?

Did he suffer having to fire 2 cheaters? I don't think it hurts him a bit and he can use those extra 100.s of millions to sign guys to make up for the lost draft choices.


The biggest single key to being a great hitter is pitch recognition. That is the entire point of why they stole signs. So besides the owner getting richer by cheating (meaning it paid off), the players did as well. Bigger stats means bigger $$$.

I see only 2 sympathetic figures here. Just barely sympathetic is Hinch. He wanted no part of the scam but was too big of a coward to speak up. The other is Mike Fiers who will have to deal with the fallout for the rest of his career.

Cheeks

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #435 on: January 14, 2020, 11:02:03 PM »
Astros corruption uncovered by reporters, of course.

Players came forward to spill the beans if that’s what you mean....something that can be done in today’s age without any reporters at all.  As more and more athletes go down the path of the Athletes Tribune model, it is going to be interesting to see where reporters fit in.

I have meeting with the Athletic tomorrow, one of our discussion points...the future of sports media in a world where athletes don’t want to talk to the media but can still control their own message...in a world where media companies are downsizing like crazy.  Interesting times.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 11:23:57 PM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #436 on: January 14, 2020, 11:03:55 PM »
What did the owner lose, though? His franchise made 100s of millions off of the cheating. Poor guy has to give 5 back?

Did he suffer having to fire 2 cheaters? I don't think it hurts him a bit and he can use those extra 100.s of millions to sign guys to make up for the lost draft choices.


The biggest single key to being a great hitter is pitch recognition. That is the entire point of why they stole signs. So besides the owner getting richer by cheating (meaning it paid off), the players did as well. Bigger stats means bigger $$$.

I see only 2 sympathetic figures here. Just barely sympathetic is Hinch. He wanted no part of the scam but was too big of a coward to speak up. The other is Mike Fiers who will have to deal with the fallout for the rest of his career.

Source for the 100’s of millions.   Not value inflation, but where is it that you are sourcing he made 100’s of millions off the World Series....would like to see this.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #437 on: January 14, 2020, 11:21:20 PM »
I see only 2 sympathetic figures here. Just barely sympathetic is Hinch. He wanted no part of the scam but was too big of a coward to speak up. The other is Mike Fiers who will have to deal with the fallout for the rest of his career.

AJ Hinch, who had all the power in the world to stop this but allowed it to continue and then mocked those who raised questions about it ... he's a sympathetic figure? Wut?
He's every bit the villain as Alex Cora and the players who participated. Simply put, if Hinch wanted it to end, it would have ended. He could have dismissed Cora. He could have benched and fined players who took part. He could have reported it to MLB. He did none of these things. Instead, he allowed it to continue because it was producing the results that got him a ring, public acclaim and a fat contract extension.

On the other hand, Crane is being punished for doing nothing wrong. I don't necessarily think that's unfair, because the club as a whole needs to be punished, but to argue that a guy who had no role in this deserves a harsher punishment while the guy who allowed it is sympathetic is perplexing.

Cheeks

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #438 on: January 14, 2020, 11:25:33 PM »
AJ Hinch, who had all the power in the world to stop this but allowed it to continue and then mocked those who raised questions about it ... he's a sympathetic figure? Wut?
He's every bit the villain as Alex Cora and the players who participated. Simply put, if Hinch wanted it to end, it would have ended. He could have dismissed Cora. He could have benched and fined players who took part. He could have reported it to MLB. He did none of these things. Instead, he allowed it to continue because it was producing the results that got him a ring, public acclaim and a fat contract extension.

On the other hand, Crane is being punished for doing nothing wrong. I don't necessarily think that's unfair, because the club as a whole needs to be punished, but to argue that a guy who had no role in this deserves a harsher punishment while the guy who allowed it is sympathetic is perplexing.


ESPN drive home tonight, the announcers believe Crane knew as a hands on owner.  Will be interesting to see if that comes to light....that would be some good work by reporters.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Jockey

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #439 on: January 14, 2020, 11:31:05 PM »
AJ Hinch, who had all the power in the world to stop this but allowed it to continue and then mocked those who raised questions about it ... he's a sympathetic figure? Wut?
He's every bit the villain as Alex Cora and the players who participated. Simply put, if Hinch wanted it to end, it would have ended. He could have dismissed Cora. He could have benched and fined players who took part. He could have reported it to MLB. He did none of these things. Instead, he allowed it to continue because it was producing the results that got him a ring, public acclaim and a fat contract extension.

On the other hand, Crane is being punished for doing nothing wrong. I don't necessarily think that's unfair, because the club as a whole needs to be punished, but to argue that a guy who had no role in this deserves a harsher punishment while the guy who allowed it is sympathetic is perplexing.

You're not wrong about Hinch. He didn't set it up and didn't participate. He was simply a coward. That is why I said sympathetic. Maybe the word I should have used is pathetic, instead.

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #440 on: January 14, 2020, 11:32:00 PM »
It's cute that amyone thinks athletes avoid reporters by "writing" for the Players Tribune.
Or that anyone sees the Players Tribune as anything more than a PR firm.
Or that anyone, you know, reads it.

And Cheeks understanding of how this story broke is painfully inaccurate, it seems. He should ask his friends at the Athletic.

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #441 on: January 14, 2020, 11:35:15 PM »
You're not wrong about Hinch. He didn't set it up and didn't participate. He was simply a coward. That is why I said sympathetic. Maybe the word I should have used is pathetic, instead.

Speaking of a coward, how about Luhnow's statement.  What a joke.

Jockey

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #442 on: January 14, 2020, 11:51:17 PM »
Source for the 100’s of millions.   Not value inflation, but where is it that you are sourcing he made 100’s of millions off the World Series....would like to see this.

The value of the franchise increased by in the 3 years that they cheated. The biggest increase to their value in their history was the first year that they are known to have cheated.

Manfred works for Crane. If he would have really lowered the boom, he would not have his job for long.

Success on the field leads to greater demand for tickets and other revenue streams within a stadium and also increases the value of broadcast rights and sponsorships.

If you asked every other owner if they would trade 4 draft picks & $5 mil for a much greater chance to win a championship and to improve the value of the franchise by $700 million, I think they would all make the deal.

DegenerateDish

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #443 on: January 15, 2020, 12:00:29 AM »
Jeff Passan was on LeBatard today and it was a great segment. I agreed with what Passan said, MLB knew this was going on and was hoping it would have just gone away on its own. Fiers will probably have real trouble in MLB moving forward. Also, there’s zero deterrent to players still trying some form of this, the reward versus risk is overwhelmingly still in the player’s favor.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #444 on: January 15, 2020, 07:24:24 AM »
Lifetime bans for all of them: Luhnow, Hinch, Beltran, Cora.  If possible, "official" asterisk on the WS win.

Too harsh.
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lawdog77

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #445 on: January 15, 2020, 08:29:41 AM »
Lifetime bans for all of them: Luhnow, Hinch, Beltran, Cora.  If possible, "official" asterisk on the WS win.
And give me back my money I lost in Vegas.

#UnleashSean

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #446 on: January 15, 2020, 09:00:10 AM »
Astros corruption uncovered by reporters, of course.

Keep pretending your profession hasn't become an absolute joke

Cheeks

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #447 on: January 15, 2020, 09:05:09 AM »
It's cute that amyone thinks athletes avoid reporters by "writing" for the Players Tribune.
Or that anyone sees the Players Tribune as anything more than a PR firm.
Or that anyone, you know, reads it.

And Cheeks understanding of how this story broke is painfully inaccurate, it seems. He should ask his friends at the Athletic.

Players Tribune is a PR firm?  Interesting.  One of the bigger stories of last year came from them.

At any rate, players can go directly to the fans without the media.  Someone else has done that very effectively and it roils some folks a ton.  LOL
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 09:07:41 AM by Cheeks »
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #448 on: January 15, 2020, 09:07:06 AM »
The value of the franchise increased by in the 3 years that they cheated. The biggest increase to their value in their history was the first year that they are known to have cheated.

Manfred works for Crane. If he would have really lowered the boom, he would not have his job for long.

Success on the field leads to greater demand for tickets and other revenue streams within a stadium and also increases the value of broadcast rights and sponsorships.

If you asked every other owner if they would trade 4 draft picks & $5 mil for a much greater chance to win a championship and to improve the value of the franchise by $700 million, I think they would all make the deal.

Yes, the “value”, which is much different that what you said.  Paper value is great, but unless you sell you don’t realize the gains.  That’s why I specifically asked the question.  Incidentally the value of other franchises also grew immensely the last few years.
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire

Cheeks

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #449 on: January 15, 2020, 09:08:51 AM »
Jeff Passan was on LeBatard today and it was a great segment. I agreed with what Passan said, MLB knew this was going on and was hoping it would have just gone away on its own. Fiers will probably have real trouble in MLB moving forward. Also, there’s zero deterrent to players still trying some form of this, the reward versus risk is overwhelmingly still in the player’s favor.


What I want to know is if stealing signs from a base runner at second base is still ok?   8-)
"I hate everything about this job except the games, Everything. I don't even get affected anymore by the winning, by the ratings, those things. The trouble is, it will sound like an excuse because we've never won the national championship, but winning just isn't all that important to me.” Al McGuire