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Author Topic: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20  (Read 280085 times)

wadesworld

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1025 on: June 13, 2020, 09:19:22 PM »
Top of the 5th, nobody on, nobody out. Line score:

Pakuni    5  6  0
Wades    0  0  2

I’d be worried if Lenny had me winning something. Glad to know I’m right where I should be.

What really matters is what the players think. And given that they continue to reject proposals with no counter offers, it appears the players see Snell as correct.
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1026 on: June 13, 2020, 09:31:02 PM »
The players told MLB today that they will play a season for as long as the owners wish but will not agree to less than prorated salary or expanded post season.

Seems reasonable to me.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Lennys Tap

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1027 on: June 13, 2020, 09:49:16 PM »
I’d be worried if Lenny had me winning something. Glad to know I’m right where I should be.


As Brian Wilson once wrote, “Don’t Worry, Baby”.

wadesworld

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1028 on: June 13, 2020, 09:49:47 PM »
The players told MLB today that they will play a season for as long as the owners wish but will not agree to less than prorated salary or expanded post season.

Seems reasonable to me.

Agreed.
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

shoothoops

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wadesworld

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Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1031 on: June 13, 2020, 10:41:13 PM »
The players told MLB today that they will play a season for as long as the owners wish but will not agree to less than prorated salary or expanded post season.

Seems reasonable to me.

Not really.  They are taking the top 2 things that are important to the owners off the table.  If what they are looking for is a crapty 50 game season that just makes everyone mad, this is how to get it.  Both sides have been completely stupid about this.

Lennys Tap

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1032 on: June 13, 2020, 10:56:04 PM »
Not really.  They are taking the top 2 things that are important to the owners off the table.  If what they are looking for is a crapty 50 game season that just makes everyone mad, this is how to get it.  Both sides have been completely stupid about this.

I love baseball, I miss baseball. But if my choice is no baseball or a 50 game season, it’s not even close. No baseball (as bad as that would be) wins in a walk.

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1033 on: June 13, 2020, 10:59:31 PM »
I love baseball, I miss baseball. But if my choice is no baseball or a 50 game season, it%u2019s not even close. No baseball (as bad as that would be) wins in a walk.

Yes, I agree of course, I meant that the deal will make both the MLBPA and the owners mad.

Oh and by the way, the MLBPA already gave the owners the ability to set the number of games.  Which the owners will make as few as possible so they pay less in salary.  The players don't "win" anything in that scenario.  They still only get their 6 donuts.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 11:01:34 PM by buckchuckler »

MU82

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1034 on: June 13, 2020, 11:02:54 PM »
In 6 weeks, the NBA and NHL will be going and the NFL will be starting training camp. Baseball will be forgotten. That's what all of them (especially the owners) should be worried about.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1035 on: June 13, 2020, 11:04:36 PM »
In 6 weeks, the NBA and NHL will be going and the NFL will be starting training camp. Baseball will be forgotten. That's what all of them (especially the owners) should be worried about.

Yeah.  They are fighting over dollars now, and could all lose fortunes because of it.  It is idiotic.

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1036 on: June 13, 2020, 11:16:35 PM »
Yeah.  They are fighting over dollars now, and could all lose fortunes because of it.  It is idiotic.

Both sides are willing to sacrifice this season to win the next CBA.

MU82

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1037 on: June 13, 2020, 11:28:09 PM »
Both sides are willing to sacrifice this season to win the next CBA.

Good point, Pak.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1038 on: June 14, 2020, 12:44:28 AM »
Not really.  They are taking the top 2 things that are important to the owners off the table.  If what they are looking for is a crapty 50 game season that just makes everyone mad, this is how to get it.  Both sides have been completely stupid about this.

Nope. Players have no obligation to take a per game cut. And they shouldn’t. Why should they play for less than that?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 12:48:56 AM by Fluffy Blue Monster »
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

4everwarriors

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1039 on: June 14, 2020, 04:32:23 AM »
Don't give a chit 'bout boat deez entitled groups. Got bigga fish ta fry and baseball/sports is a small capillary feedin' da entire ocean, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

Lennys Tap

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1040 on: June 14, 2020, 09:39:09 AM »
Don't give a chit 'bout boat deez entitled groups. Got bigga fish ta fry and baseball/sports is a small capillary feedin' da entire ocean, hey?

+1, Doc. No good guys vs bad guys. Just good old greedy self interest vs greedy self interest. People who can’t see that are blind partisans and/or fools.

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1041 on: June 14, 2020, 09:58:07 AM »
Nope. Players have no obligation to take a per game cut. And they shouldn’t. Why should they play for less than that?

They have no obligation, correct.  But MLB has the power to implement a season of however many games they want, I believe as long as it is at least 50 games.  The players have said that 30% of their salaries is not enough and they don't want that and won't negotiate on a per game pay cut.  That will result in a 50 game season and players making 30% of their salaries.  It is stupid. Neitgwr side is really negotiating in good faith ( but the players have tried at least, the owners haven't at all).  With both sides essentially participating in boulwarism, nothing gets accomplished.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1042 on: June 14, 2020, 10:02:06 AM »
They have no obligation, correct.  But MLB has the power to implement a season of however many games they want, I believe as long as it is at least 50 games.  The players have said that 30% of their salaries is not enough and they don't want that and won't negotiate on a per game pay cut.  That will result in a 50 game season and players making 30% of their salaries.  It is stupid. Neitgwr side is really negotiating in good faith ( but the players have tried at least, the owners haven't at all).  With both sides essentially participating in boulwarism, nothing gets accomplished.

I get that. I just don’t like the narratives I read suggesting the players are being greedy for not paying for less.


+1, Doc. No good guys vs bad guys. Just good old greedy self interest vs greedy self interest. People who can’t see that are blind partisans and/or fools.

Well protecting your self-interest is what negotiations are about right?  Greedy is just in the eye of the beholder.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Lennys Tap

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1043 on: June 14, 2020, 11:34:39 AM »
I get that. I just don’t like the narratives I read suggesting the players are being greedy for not paying for less.


Well protecting your self-interest is what negotiations are about right?  Greedy is just in the eye of the beholder.

True. I understand the principle. But to my set of eyes someone living paycheck to paycheck negotiating with a business owner barely turning a profit looks different than a group of millionaires/multimillionaires arguing with a group of multimillionaires/billionaires about whether the former is willing to take a salary cut to help mitigate the latter’s losses due to a pandemic. However this one comes out the players and owners will be millionaires, multimillionaires and billionaires. And the ones who get screwed will be the fans.

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1044 on: June 15, 2020, 12:35:13 PM »
nm 
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 12:37:01 PM by buckchuckler »

MU82

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1045 on: June 15, 2020, 01:11:15 PM »
True. I understand the principle. But to my set of eyes someone living paycheck to paycheck negotiating with a business owner barely turning a profit looks different than a group of millionaires/multimillionaires arguing with a group of multimillionaires/billionaires about whether the former is willing to take a salary cut to help mitigate the latter’s losses due to a pandemic. However this one comes out the players and owners will be millionaires, multimillionaires and billionaires. And the ones who get screwed will be the fans.

This exactly. Neither players nor owners deserve any sympathy. Players are the ones fans see, follow and cheer/boo, so it's not surprising if they get the brunt of criticism.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

MUBurrow

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1046 on: June 15, 2020, 01:28:01 PM »
Being mad at everyone equally without digging into the nuance is implicit support for the owners.

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1047 on: June 15, 2020, 01:57:33 PM »
I don't understand why the players are hell bent on the 100% prorating of their contracts.  They would make more in 85% of 65 games than 100% of 50 games.  And more in 85% of 81 games than 100% in 65 games.  You'd think most players would be more interested in the bottom line they are making as opposed to their per game rate.  Especially when so many people have had to take a % reduction of their rates this year. 

What they are looking at right now is a 50 game season with regular playoffs.  Basically the worst possible outcome for both sides.  Nice work guys.  You negotiated a lose-lose deal.

cheebs09

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1048 on: June 15, 2020, 02:04:54 PM »
I don't understand why the players are hell bent on the 100% prorating of their contracts.  They would make more in 85% of 65 games than 100% of 50 games.  And more in 85% of 81 games than 100% in 65 games.  You'd think most players would be more interested in the bottom line they are making as opposed to their per game rate.  Especially when so many people have had to take a % reduction of their rates this year. 

What they are looking at right now is a 50 game season with regular playoffs.  Basically the worst possible outcome for both sides.  Nice work guys.  You negotiated a lose-lose deal.

I don’t think the owners are offering that though. All offers are the same dollar amount, just packaged differently.

There are many rich players, but based on how MLBs pre-arbitration suppresses contracts, not all are making millions. Many good young players are still at around $600k. I’d certainly be happy with that paycheck, but not everyone is making 5M a year.

That’s all after these guys didn’t make a living wage in the minors.

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1049 on: June 15, 2020, 02:10:44 PM »
I don't understand why the players are hell bent on the 100% prorating of their contracts.  They would make more in 85% of 65 games than 100% of 50 games.  And more in 85% of 81 games than 100% in 65 games.  You'd think most players would be more interested in the bottom line they are making as opposed to their per game rate.  Especially when so many people have had to take a % reduction of their rates this year. 

What they are looking at right now is a 50 game season with regular playoffs.  Basically the worst possible outcome for both sides.  Nice work guys.  You negotiated a lose-lose deal.

I was thinking the same.

cheebs09 - I think you're right but the players should counteroffer with along the lines of what you said.