MLB Hot Stove 2019-20

[wadesworld]

Sorry I didnt realize saying he will be better than Adam Duvall and Jake Lamb meant I thought he would be "great".  I don't think he's great,  never thought he was great, he's flawed as a hitter, but he gets on base and hits for power.  That's a good start on a DH.

Every adavnced defensive number I looked at for him started with a minus sign.

And I must have had my years crossed.  The errors he made in the 2017 playoffs were after he improved out there.

You said you didn't think there was another NL team that would benefit more from having the DH available. I took that as you thought Schwarber was some dominant hitter who now doesn't need to play in the field, which is why I thought you were overrating Schwarber. I read it as if you were saying he was significantly better than most might be able to put in that spot in the NL, which I don't think is the case. Better than some for sure but I don't think he's an elite hitter.

[buckchuckler]

Just meant they had a ready made DH.  I regret bringing it up.

[Pakuni]

Baseball players once again proving themselves to collectively be the least intelligent and most tone deaf of all the professional athletes, no?

[MUBurrow]

Baseball players once again proving themselves to collectively be the least intelligent and most tone deaf of all the professional athletes, no?

I do think that the MLBPA has the worst PR machine of any of the labor constituencies in the major sports.  They are going to get destoryed by the owners in the media battle - its already begun. Owners are united and have been hitting the pavement hard to make the players look out of touch, even though I think Blake Snell is pretty much objectively correct, for example.

[MU82]

I do think that the MLBPA has the worst PR machine of any of the labor constituencies in the major sports.  They are going to get destoryed by the owners in the media battle - its already begun. Owners are united and have been hitting the pavement hard to make the players look out of touch, even though I think Blake Snell is pretty much objectively correct, for example.

He might be "correct," but fans don't want to hear it, and there isn't a soul who feels sorry for him.

This wasn't a union thing, per se. It was a tone-deaf player sounding like a dope.

[wadesworld]

Snell is spot on.  While the rest of the world is refusing to get on airplanes, stay in hotels, or come close to other human beings, he's being asked to take half of what his pay is to put himself at risk?  How does that make any sense?  I get it, you're playing half a season so you're not going to be paid for the work you didn't do.  But why should these guys have to take risks other people don't?

[buckchuckler]

He might be "correct," but fans don't want to hear it, and there isn't a soul who feels sorry for him.

This wasn't a union thing, per se. It was a tone-deaf player sounding like a dope.

Yeah, it sounds pretty stupid to say he's risking his life for nothing, when, really there are many others that are taking on much more risk for far less.  If MLB comes back, you'd think it would be a fairly controlled environment, at least compared to working at a grocery store or hospital. 

While he has every right to that money, it seems ridiculous to say it how he said it, when so many people are really suffering financial and economical hardships right now.  There would have been better ways to get his point across. 

And I totally get the players being suspicious of the owners.  There are also some pretty unique circumstances right now, and you'd think the MLBPA would understand that.  Especially because this is the owners first proposal in a negotiation.  Trying to carry out the negotiation in public probably doesn't help anyone.

[Pakuni]

I do think that the MLBPA has the worst PR machine of any of the labor constituencies in the major sports.  They are going to get destoryed by the owners in the media battle - its already begun. Owners are united and have been hitting the pavement hard to make the players look out of touch, even though I think Blake Snell is pretty much objectively correct, for example.

I'm on the players' side regarding how they should get paid. Don't pay them for the games that aren't played, of course, but they should get every dime they're owed for the games that are played.
But public statements how "I gots to get paid" and "I'm putting my life at risk" are idiotic and drain away what public support you have as players.
Doctors, nurses, grocery store workers, meat plant workers, construction workers, etc., are putting their lives at risk. A 27-year-old athlete playing baseball in a highly controlled environment surrounded by top-level medical care is not putting his life at risk.

[MUBurrow]

I have a pipe dream that this pandemic actually engenders a little worker solidarity, and all those meat packers and grocery store workers are glad to see someone who has that bargaining power actually use it, and say what all those low wage workers wish they could say. But I'm sure I'm probably wrong and we'll all just continue pissing on each other's heads.

EDIT: lol pissing on each other's legs. leaving the original to show I'm an idiot and no one should listen to anything i say

[Pakuni]

But why should these guys have to take risks other people don't?

They don't have to do anything. MLB has said players that don't want to play won't be forced to play.
And millions of people are taking far greater risks every day. Playing baseball under the circumstances that have been laid out is going to be much less dangerous than going to the grocery store, much less working in one.

[wadesworld]

They don't have to do anything. MLB has said players that don't want to play won't be forced to play.
And millions of people are taking far greater risks every day. Playing baseball under the circumstances that have been laid out is going to be much less dangerous than going to the grocery store, much less working in one.

That's all he's saying. If he's playing, he's getting paid what he signed to play for. If he's not getting that, no need for him to put himself, and then his family, at risk.

If I had millions of dollars to my name and was responsible with that money, there's no way I'd be interested in hopping on airplanes to stay in hotels and then come home to my family while being paid less than what I agreed to.

[MUBurrow]

If I had millions of dollars to my name and was responsible with that money, there's no way I'd be interested in hopping on airplanes to stay in hotels and then come home to my family while being paid less than what I agreed to.

Plus, there's a huge dfference between taking prorated salary and taking a proportion whatever is there after a 50/50 split of revenue with the owners.  That's what Snell is talking about.  These guys aren't saying "I won't go out there unless I'm paid my full year's salary for playing half the year."  They're saying they won't let the owners renegotiate the deal.

The collective bargaining agreement put the risk-reward on the owners.  You owe the players what you owe them, and you keep the rest. If TV deals and the gate make crazy $, you keep that upside.  You also take the risk of the downside.  Now they want to split that downside 50/50 with the players.

AND if the MLBPA agrees, its guys like Snell that will get hurt the most.  With no spring traning, there will be expanded rosters, which means even more pre-arb guys.  You can't hardly cut the salaries of those pre-arb guys pro-rata after splitting revenue with the owners - they already don't make any money.  So where is all of that loss going to come from? It will have to come from guys like Snell, who will be risking your typical pitching injuries in addition to the 'rona for what, half of the prorated version of their bargained for salary. He's right, screw that.

[Pakuni]

That's all he's saying. If he's playing, he's getting paid what he signed to play for. If he's not getting that, no need for him to put himself, and then his family, at risk.

If I had millions of dollars to my name and was responsible with that money, there's no way I'd be interested in hopping on airplanes to stay in hotels and then come home to my family while being paid less than what I agreed to.

I don't think anyone here at least is saying the players should accept less than their contract states.
The point is Snell's remarks did a poor job of stating the players' case, plays into the stereotype that all they care about is the money, will alienate potential supporters and  likely to harm the players' side in what will become - as these things invariably do - a PR battle.
You can be on the players' side while also recognizing the stupidity of Snell's comments.

For comparison's sake and how it ought to be handled, see Nolan Arenado.
https://theathletic.com/1815647/2020/05/14/rosenthal-nolan-arenado-on-talks-with-mlb-health-risks-and-wanting-to-play/

[The Sultan]

The collective bargaining agreement put the risk-reward on the owners.  You owe the players what you owe them, and you keep the rest. If TV deals and the gate make crazy $, you keep that upside.  You also take the risk of the downside.  Now they want to split that downside 50/50 with the players.

Hey its the American way! 

[Lennys Tap]

I'm on the players' side regarding how they should get paid. Don't pay them for the games that aren't played, of course, but they should get every dime they're owed for the games that are played.
But public statements how "I gots to get paid" and "I'm putting my life at risk" are idiotic and drain away what public support you have as players.
Doctors, nurses, grocery store workers, meat plant workers, construction workers, etc., are putting their lives at risk. A 27-year-old athlete playing baseball in a highly controlled environment surrounded by top-level medical care is not putting his life at risk.

This sums up the situation perfectly.

[MU82]

Yeah, it sounds pretty stupid to say he's risking his life for nothing, when, really there are many others that are taking on much more risk for far less.  If MLB comes back, you'd think it would be a fairly controlled environment, at least compared to working at a grocery store or hospital. 

While he has every right to that money, it seems ridiculous to say it how he said it, when so many people are really suffering financial and economical hardships right now.  There would have been better ways to get his point across. 

And I totally get the players being suspicious of the owners.  There are also some pretty unique circumstances right now, and you'd think the MLBPA would understand that.  Especially because this is the owners first proposal in a negotiation.  Trying to carry out the negotiation in public probably doesn't help anyone.

Yep.

I'm on the players' side regarding how they should get paid. Don't pay them for the games that aren't played, of course, but they should get every dime they're owed for the games that are played.
But public statements how "I gots to get paid" and "I'm putting my life at risk" are idiotic and drain away what public support you have as players.
Doctors, nurses, grocery store workers, meat plant workers, construction workers, etc., are putting their lives at risk. A 27-year-old athlete playing baseball in a highly controlled environment surrounded by top-level medical care is not putting his life at risk.

And yep.

[wadesworld]

I don't think anyone here at least is saying the players should accept less than their contract states.
The point is Snell's remarks did a poor job of stating the players' case, plays into the stereotype that all they care about is the money, will alienate potential supporters and  likely to harm the players' side in what will become - as these things invariably do - a PR battle.
You can be on the players' side while also recognizing the stupidity of Snell's comments.

For comparison's sake and how it ought to be handled, see Nolan Arenado.
https://theathletic.com/1815647/2020/05/14/rosenthal-nolan-arenado-on-talks-with-mlb-health-risks-and-wanting-to-play/

Snell can handle it how he wants to, just like any other player can handle it how they want to. It's easy for me to sit working from home because of this and say "shut up and pitch the ball. You're getting paid millions of dollars to do it." If I was being put in place as a guinea pig to see how sports are handled with the risk of coronavirus I'd probably say, "Sure, pay me what I agreed to" as well. Otherwise I'll pass on hopping on airplanes, staying in hotels, and then returning home to my family until we know more about this. If the people who can't go into their offices because of a deadly virus want to sit on their computers at home and call me tone deaf so be it would be my mindset.

[The Sultan]

Snell can handle it how he wants to, just like any other player can handle it how they want to.

No one is suggesting otherwise.  Pakuni simply said it comes off as tone deaf.  And it is.

[Lennys Tap]

Snell can handle it how he wants to, just like any other player can handle it how they want to. It's easy for me to sit working from home because of this and say "shut up and pitch the ball. You're getting paid millions of dollars to do it." If I was being put in place as a guinea pig to see how sports are handled with the risk of coronavirus I'd probably say, "Sure, pay me what I agreed to" as well. Otherwise I'll pass on hopping on airplanes, staying in hotels, and then returning home to my family until we know more about this. If the people who can't go into their offices because of a deadly virus want to sit on their computers at home and call me tone deaf so be it would be my mindset.

You're 100% correct. Snell has every right to come off as an a$$hole. Free country.

[wadesworld]

You're 100% correct. Snell has every right to come off as an a$$hole. Free country.

That's one opinion. The other opinion is it's pretty reasonable he wouldn't be jumping for joy if he not only has to put his, and by extension his family's, health at risk while working under different terms than what he signed his contract to that he didn't get to negotiate, all while taking a pay cut.

But maybe like college athletes the love of the game should be enough and they should just shut up and play the game.

[Lennys Tap]

That's one opinion. The other opinion is it's pretty reasonable he wouldn't be jumping for joy if he not only has to put his, and by extension his family's, health at risk while working under different terms than what he signed his contract to that he didn't get to negotiate, all while taking a pay cut.

So he'll risk his family's life for X dollars but not for Y. You actually believe that in the present environment that is a well reasoned argument that will win friends?

[wadesworld]

So he'll risk his family's life for X dollars but not for Y. You actually believe that in the present environment that is a well reasoned argument that will win friends?

I believe the guy signed a contract and now billionaires want to pay him less to put himself at an unneeded risk. He didn't sign up to take a pay cut to entertain people during a global pandemic. I don't blame him one bit for not jumping for joy.

But it is funny coming from you, constantly questioning at what cost we kill the economy to save a life.

[Lennys Tap]

But it is funny coming from you, constantly questioning at what cost we kill the economy to save a life.

Nm

[Keithtisbarf]

I'll ask my ground keeper source what they know and get back to you all. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[wadesworld]

Snell's comments are even more understandable with the safety outline the MLB has. Take a paycut to essentially stay in your house or at the ballpark for 4 straight months to play a modified version of your sport? Thanks but no thanks. If I was a player and you pay me what I signed to I'll hold up my end of the bargain but there's no chance I'm taking a paycut for the garbage laid out by the MLB.