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Author Topic: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20  (Read 280183 times)

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #875 on: May 08, 2020, 10:27:02 AM »
Dude not going to a baseball game has nothing to do with your civil liberties.

Yes the economy has to open up. And it will. But large crowds at sporting events will be the last thing that does. Perhaps properly spaced, smaller crowds are a possibility but full stands for baseball this year?  Not. A. Chance.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #876 on: May 08, 2020, 11:50:31 AM »
Ive been partial to the SK Wyverns cause for an ESL country, Wyverns is an absolutely incredible mascot

That it is.  And I almost went with them too, ultimately, my daughter preferred Dinos.  So there I am.

Bad_Reporter

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #877 on: May 12, 2020, 03:57:36 PM »
Was just told.   “ Looks like training camp begins mid June season July early. Camp might be in  Milwaukee.. ”

Here’s to hoping that happens

withoutbias

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #878 on: May 12, 2020, 04:36:16 PM »
Was just told.   “ Looks like training camp begins mid June season July early. Camp might be in  Milwaukee.. ”

Here’s to hoping that happens

So your source can read ESPN.com, SI.com, or any other publication that covers sports?

I'm guessing your source also told you that teams will play an 82 game season, there will be 14 Playoff teams for an extra Wild Card round, universal DH, 30 man rosters with a 20 man taxi squad, divisions will remain the same but teams will only play other teams from their division and the teams in the same geographical division from the other league, revenue sharing for the players for the first time ever, and games played in empty home ballparks, unless teams can't make that happen and then at their own spring training sites?

The owners have already agreed to this proposal.  The Players Association is expected to reject it.  But my guess is, with further negotiations regarding what the revenue sharing part of it will mean for player contracts going forward, we will get most of what is being proposed in terms of rules and schedule for this season.

Whether they can actually keep teams from having to quarantine will be seen when Summer Training gets under way.

Bad_Reporter

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #879 on: May 12, 2020, 05:11:17 PM »
So your source can read ESPN.com, SI.com, or any other publication that covers sports?

I'm guessing your source also told you that teams will play an 82 game season, there will be 14 Playoff teams for an extra Wild Card round, universal DH, 30 man rosters with a 20 man taxi squad, divisions will remain the same but teams will only play other teams from their division and the teams in the same geographical division from the other league, revenue sharing for the players for the first time ever, and games played in empty home ballparks, unless teams can't make that happen and then at their own spring training sites?

The owners have already agreed to this proposal.  The Players Association is expected to reject it.  But my guess is, with further negotiations regarding what the revenue sharing part of it will mean for player contracts going forward, we will get most of what is being proposed in terms of rules and schedule for this season.

Whether they can actually keep teams from having to quarantine will be seen when Summer Training gets under way.

BD,  not going to get into a pissing match with you.  When I want to know when Davante Gardner is bringing his warmups to a game, and still won’t play for numerous games, I’ll reach out.  Thanks

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #880 on: May 12, 2020, 06:55:46 PM »
I think pitchers hitting is going to be a casualty of Covid.  For you fans of pitchers hitting, my deepest heartfelt apologies that you will no longer get to watch guys that don't practice hitting hit. 

The Cubs are probably pretty happy about it, so Schwarber won't have to play the OF anymore.  I don't know if there could be another NL team as well positioned for the DH.  The Reds could be well positioned there too.

Yasiel Puig is probably pretty happy about it as well.

Also I think this delay is an advantage for the Nationals, their pitchers threw a ton of innings last season, and now will be fresher through this season, provided it still happens.  Often, teams that win the WS fall off because their pitchers can't hold up to the extra inning load.  The Nats shouldn't have to worry about Strasburg, Scherzer and Corbin as much.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 06:59:29 PM by buckchuckler »

cheebs09

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #881 on: May 12, 2020, 07:01:42 PM »
I think pitchers hitting is going to be a casualty of Covid.  For you fans of pitchers hitting, my deepest heartfelt apologies that you will no longer get to watch guys that don't practice hitting hit. 

The Cubs are probably pretty happy about it, so Schwarber won't have to play the OF anymore.  I don't know if there could be another NL team as well positioned for the DH.  The Reds could be well positioned there too.

Yasiel Puig is probably pretty happy about it as well.

Also I think this delay is an advantage for the Nationals, their pitchers threw a ton of innings last season, and now will be fresher through this season, provided it still happens.  Often, teams that win the WS fall off because their pitchers can't hold up to the extra inning load.  The Nats shouldn't have to worry about Strasburg, Scherzer and Corbin as much.

Jimmy Nelson’s injury ended any resistance I had to the DH.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #882 on: May 12, 2020, 07:16:13 PM »
Apparently the CBA with the players has no provision to pay less than full salary if the season goes on. No matter the length. Of course the owners want that renegotiated.

And apparently the NFL has to pay their players regardless if there is a season or not.

Players may finally have some leverage.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

GB Warrior

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #883 on: May 13, 2020, 11:26:20 AM »
Apparently the CBA with the players has no provision to pay less than full salary if the season goes on. No matter the length. Of course the owners want that renegotiated.

And apparently the NFL has to pay their players regardless if there is a season or not.

Players may finally have some leverage.

Players agreed to pro-rate already, but as the MLB has realized that revenues will go down beyond the pro-rated number of games, MLB wants to renegotiate again. Players have leverage right now, but you can guarantee the owners will (just conveniently and in complete lockstep) exact revenge in subsequent years. Players should hold fast - let's not forget that player salaries have been nose-diving over the past 3 years already. Not a dime back,eh?

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #884 on: May 13, 2020, 12:09:28 PM »

Players may finally have some leverage.

Someone should have told Donald Fehr that he never had any leverage.  He did exceptionally well without it I guess.

Players agreed to pro-rate already, but as the MLB has realized that revenues will go down beyond the pro-rated number of games, MLB wants to renegotiate again. Players have leverage right now, but you can guarantee the owners will (just conveniently and in complete lockstep) exact revenge in subsequent years. Players should hold fast - let's not forget that player salaries have been nose-diving over the past 3 years already. Not a dime back,eh?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/236213/mean-salaray-of-players-in-majpr-league-baseball/

Down, but not quite nosediving.  And that is the average.  It is the lower end veterans that have been losing out.  The high end, well...

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020-mlb-free-agent-tracker/sort_column-amount__sort_direction-0

There are about 50 guys making 20 million per season or more. 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/

Plenty of guys made plenty of money.  This current version of the CBA hasn't been great for players, but in their negotiations, they focused on things other than salary considerations.  The owners, well, pretty much always focus on salary.  Things like the QO and arbitration will be huge in the next CBA I think.

I don't get why the MLBPA so readily agreed to the modifications to the draft this year (which personally I couldn't hate more).  Sure, there had to be some, but 5 rounds with a max of 20K for guys not drafted?  That's crazy cost control the owners got through with no push back at all.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #885 on: May 13, 2020, 12:18:14 PM »
Someone should have told Donald Fehr that he never had any leverage.  He did exceptionally well without it I guess.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/236213/mean-salaray-of-players-in-majpr-league-baseball/

Down, but not quite nosediving.  And that is the average.  It is the lower end veterans that have been losing out.  The high end, well...

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020-mlb-free-agent-tracker/sort_column-amount__sort_direction-0

There are about 50 guys making 20 million per season or more. 

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/

Plenty of guys made plenty of money.  This current version of the CBA hasn't been great for players, but in their negotiations, they focused on things other than salary considerations.  The owners, well, pretty much always focus on salary.  Things like the QO and arbitration will be huge in the next CBA I think.

I don't get why the MLBPA so readily agreed to the modifications to the draft this year (which personally I couldn't hate more).  Sure, there had to be some, but 5 rounds with a max of 20K for guys not drafted?  That's crazy cost control the owners got through with no push back at all.

Fehr’s long gone and the union has suffered for it. Players unions have by and large lost leverage for years.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #886 on: May 13, 2020, 12:19:38 PM »
Fehr’s long gone and the union has suffered for it. Players unions have by and large lost leverage for years.

Absolutely.  But they have prioritized different things.  Tony Clark was seemingly a better hitter than union boss.

cheebs09

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #887 on: May 13, 2020, 12:22:53 PM »
Absolutely.  But they have prioritized different things.  Tony Clark was seemingly a better hitter than union boss.

What made Clark qualified for this? It seems they went with lawyers prior to him.

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #888 on: May 13, 2020, 12:28:00 PM »
Is it the owners and the CBA or advanced stats telling GM not to give huge money/long deals to a dude that's gonna be washed up in a few years?

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #889 on: May 13, 2020, 12:35:02 PM »
Absolutely.  But they have prioritized different things.  Tony Clark was seemingly a better hitter than union boss.

Agreed on all counts.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #890 on: May 13, 2020, 02:46:12 PM »
Is it the owners and the CBA or advanced stats telling GM not to give huge money/long deals to a dude that's gonna be washed up in a few years?

It is the advanced stats squeezing out the mediocre veterans, and the CBA squeezing the good veterans and younger players.

WI inferiority Complexes

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #891 on: May 13, 2020, 03:15:39 PM »
The Cubs are probably pretty happy about it, so Schwarber won't have to play the OF anymore.  I don't know if there could be another NL team as well positioned for the DH.  The Reds could be well positioned there too.
According to this article, the Diamondbacks, Braves, Reds, Dodgers, Brewers, Mets, Phillies, and Nationals are all "better positioned" for a DH than the Cubs.
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/how-will-nl-teams-use-universal-dh-grading-each-teams-situation-as-mlb-owners-propose-return-to-play-plans/

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #892 on: May 13, 2020, 04:16:55 PM »
According to this article, the Diamondbacks, Braves, Reds, Dodgers, Brewers, Mets, Phillies, and Nationals are all "better positioned" for a DH than the Cubs.
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/how-will-nl-teams-use-universal-dh-grading-each-teams-situation-as-mlb-owners-propose-return-to-play-plans/

Those are certainly fair and true.  Though, many of those are more just that the teams are better and have more depth, like the Braves.  The Braves are better suited for it, but would you rather have Schwarber or Adam Duvall as your DH? 
I worded it wrong.  More what I meant was, there can't be many NL teams that will get better production out of their DH.
The Dodgers are a huge miss on my part.  They have so much talent and depth, they will likely have better DH production than some AL teams.  Pederson could basically full time DH.  They could play Lux at 2B or 3B and DH Muncy or Turner.  They are stacked. 
I like the Mets too, Dominic Smith can hit, and now he has a spot( though still, him producing more than Schwarber at least this year, is a stretch).  Cespedes?  Certainly, but he needs to prove he can play more than 5 games.

As for the others... I'm more skeptical

Braun or Schwarber at DH? 
Jake Lamb or Schwarber?
Starlin Castro/ Asdrubal Cabrera or Schwarber?
Jay Bruce or Schwarber?

Are the Nats, Phillies, etc. more prepared for this than the Cubs?  Yeah, probably.  But will they get more out of their DHs than the Cubs?  I doubt it.  They also get the plus of getting an absolute butcher out of LF, though many of the teams will see that same benefit. 



wadesworld

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #893 on: May 13, 2020, 04:43:02 PM »
Those are certainly fair and true.  Though, many of those are more just that the teams are better and have more depth, like the Braves.  The Braves are better suited for it, but would you rather have Schwarber or Adam Duvall as your DH? 
I worded it wrong.  More what I meant was, there can't be many NL teams that will get better production out of their DH.
The Dodgers are a huge miss on my part.  They have so much talent and depth, they will likely have better DH production than some AL teams.  Pederson could basically full time DH.  They could play Lux at 2B or 3B and DH Muncy or Turner.  They are stacked. 
I like the Mets too, Dominic Smith can hit, and now he has a spot( though still, him producing more than Schwarber at least this year, is a stretch).  Cespedes?  Certainly, but he needs to prove he can play more than 5 games.

As for the others... I'm more skeptical

Braun or Schwarber at DH? 
Jake Lamb or Schwarber?
Starlin Castro/ Asdrubal Cabrera or Schwarber?
Jay Bruce or Schwarber?

Are the Nats, Phillies, etc. more prepared for this than the Cubs?  Yeah, probably.  But will they get more out of their DHs than the Cubs?  I doubt it.  They also get the plus of getting an absolute butcher out of LF, though many of the teams will see that same benefit.

I think you’re overrating Schwarber. He’s probably going to be a better DH than a decent amount of NL DHs, but I doubt it’ll be by much.
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #894 on: May 13, 2020, 05:59:53 PM »
I think you’re overrating Schwarber. He’s probably going to be a better DH than a decent amount of NL DHs, but I doubt it’ll be by much.

Maybe I am, though, that isn't really my natural inclination.  Those other guys are pretty rough.
Lamb's last 2 seasons are .208/.315/.350.   
Duvall  .212/.284/.413
Jay Bruce .219/.287/.445
Starlin Castro .274/.314/.418
Cabrera .261/.328/.450
Braun .271/.329/.488

Braun is the only one that put up good numbers across the board.  Castro and Cabrera are fine, but not too much pop there.

Schwarber .245/.347/.503

By the way, .267/327/.473 with 34 SBs... That is Yasiel Puig, just waiting for a call...



drewm88

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #895 on: May 14, 2020, 09:33:46 AM »
You're overrating Schwarber as a hitter and underrating him as a fielder. The butcher narrative comes from a few high profile mistakes, most that took place in the playoffs 5 years ago.

Defensive stats have their issues, but they show him to be more or less average in the outfield. Same goes for the eye test if you're watching him regularly.

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #896 on: May 14, 2020, 10:58:48 AM »
You're overrating Schwarber as a hitter and underrating him as a fielder. The butcher narrative comes from a few high profile mistakes, most that took place in the playoffs 5 years ago.

Defensive stats have their issues, but they show him to be more or less average in the outfield. Same goes for the eye test if you're watching him regularly.

Not sure where you'd get this.  I mean, I just copied the numbers from bbref... so...

He is what he is as a hitter.  He will K a lot and have a mediocre to bad average, but he will walk a decent amount and have an OBP around .340 or so.  He will also hit homers and likely slug somewhere around .490. 
I feel confident that I am neither over or underrating him as a hitter, as this is what his stats say that he is.  He could easily have an outlier year one way or another, but most likely, he will be around those numbers. 

Never thought I'd see the day where I was accused of overrating cubs multiple times in a day.

And he is a butcher in the field.  I've seen him take horrible routes, get bad starts, and look like an oaf, and I don't watch them much.  They weren't all from the playoffs a couple years (yeah it wasn't close to 5- more like 2.
 5 years ago he was a catcher - mostly in the minors.) ago either.  As you say, there are problems with defensive stats, but be that as it may, whether you use advanced stats, traditional stats or the eye test, he is below average. 
 

drewm88

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #897 on: May 14, 2020, 05:09:13 PM »
Overrated refers to how you're claiming he's going to be this great DH, obviously not your statistics you later posted.

In 2015, Schwarber was called up and played 69 games, less than 1/3 of them were at catcher. He played in all 9 postseason games, broke the Cubs postseason home run record, and made multiple awful plays in the field in the NLCS against the Mets.

Also, defensive stats put him around average as a fielder, as I said previously.


Keithtisbarf

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #898 on: May 14, 2020, 06:15:31 PM »
Was just told.   “ Looks like training camp begins mid June season July early. Camp might be in  Milwaukee.. ”

Here’s to hoping that happens

Was just told by who?

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #899 on: May 14, 2020, 07:56:32 PM »
Overrated refers to how you're claiming he's going to be this great DH, obviously not your statistics you later posted.

In 2015, Schwarber was called up and played 69 games, less than 1/3 of them were at catcher. He played in all 9 postseason games, broke the Cubs postseason home run record, and made multiple awful plays in the field in the NLCS against the Mets.

Also, defensive stats put him around average as a fielder, as I said previously.

Sorry I didnt realize saying he will be better than Adam Duvall and Jake Lamb meant I thought he would be "great".  I don't think he's great,  never thought he was great, he's flawed as a hitter, but he gets on base and hits for power.  That's a good start on a DH.

Every adavnced defensive number I looked at for him started with a minus sign.

And I must have had my years crossed.  The errors he made in the 2017 playoffs were after he improved out there.