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Author Topic: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20  (Read 280119 times)

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1050 on: June 15, 2020, 02:48:24 PM »
I don't understand why the players are hell bent on the 100% prorating of their contracts.  They would make more in 85% of 65 games than 100% of 50 games.  And more in 85% of 81 games than 100% in 65 games.  You'd think most players would be more interested in the bottom line they are making as opposed to their per game rate.  Especially when so many people have had to take a % reduction of their rates this year. 

What they are looking at right now is a 50 game season with regular playoffs.  Basically the worst possible outcome for both sides.  Nice work guys.  You negotiated a lose-lose deal.

It's all about the next CBA. Players aren't going to accept anything that sets the stage for any kind of revenue split, leading to imposition of a cap. They'd rather make less this year than open the door to a cap in the future.

DegenerateDish

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1051 on: June 15, 2020, 03:21:57 PM »
There's a possibility on the horizon of fans not stepping into MLB ballparks until 2023 (covid and potential players strike). Crazy to think about, but it's not an impossible scenario.

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1052 on: June 15, 2020, 03:53:23 PM »
I don’t think the owners are offering that though. All offers are the same dollar amount, just packaged differently.

There are many rich players, but based on how MLBs pre-arbitration suppresses contracts, not all are making millions. Many good young players are still at around $600k. I’d certainly be happy with that paycheck, but not everyone is making 5M a year.

That’s all after these guys didn’t make a living wage in the minors.

Yeah, and don't you think those guys specifically, would rather make more bottom line, than per game?  For a guy making 600K per season, they will make about 20K more in 65 games at 85% than in 50 games at 100%.  That seems like it would be significant for a guy just coming off minor league starvation wages. 

And you're right about if the owners are offering that.  Neither side is negotiating in good faith.  They are both being idiots trying to make some point for the next CBA, and they will drive away fans hurting themselves in the short run and the long run.

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1053 on: June 15, 2020, 04:17:06 PM »
Yeah, and don't you think those guys specifically, would rather make more bottom line, than per game?  For a guy making 600K per season, they will make about 20K more in 65 games at 85% than in 50 games at 100%.  That seems like it would be significant for a guy just coming off minor league starvation wages. 

And you're right about if the owners are offering that.  Neither side is negotiating in good faith.  They are both being idiots trying to make some point for the next CBA, and they will drive away fans hurting themselves in the short run and the long run.

The owners' last offer only guarantees 70 percent prorated salary for 72 games.
For a guy making $600K over a full season, that's about $186,000. For that same player, 50 games at 100 percent salary is $185,000.
So basically, they're asking that guy to play 22 more games for perhaps as little as $1,000.

You're right that they're both trying to make a point for the next CBA, but it's a pretty important point. It's very much against the players' long-term interest to set precedent for a revenue-sharing structure heading into labor negotiations. And sacrificing a (relatively) little money today to avoid a cap for another 4-5 years is a worthy trade-off for them.

Uncle Rico

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1054 on: June 15, 2020, 04:38:43 PM »
Love a sport as much as baseball hates itself
“This is bar none atrocious.  Mitchell cannot shoot either.  What a pile of dung”

cheebs09

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1055 on: June 15, 2020, 04:52:36 PM »
https://twitter.com/baueroutage/status/1272641345941721088?s=21

Bauer calls out Manfred as saying it’s a stall tactic since they could easily play 64-72 games if started planning now.

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1056 on: June 15, 2020, 05:16:16 PM »
https://twitter.com/baueroutage/status/1272641345941721088?s=21

Bauer calls out Manfred as saying it’s a stall tactic since they could easily play 64-72 games if started planning now.

AKA ... Insufferable twat calls out insufferable twat.

Jockey

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1057 on: June 15, 2020, 05:46:37 PM »
Owners have determined that they will lose money this year. They also know players will demand 100% prorated salary.

Thus owners will keep Season as short as possible - 48 games.

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1058 on: June 15, 2020, 06:20:06 PM »
Not that it'll do anything, but here is a petition to remove Rob Manfred.

https://t.co/g1O5vNRvGT

Lennys Tap

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1059 on: June 15, 2020, 06:49:42 PM »
Being mad at everyone equally without digging into the nuance is implicit support for the owners.

I’m knee deep in nuance and support neither.

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1060 on: June 15, 2020, 06:49:56 PM »
Not that it'll do anything, but here is a petition to remove Rob Manfred.

https://t.co/g1O5vNRvGT

Rob Manfred is doing exactly what the owners pay him to do.... take heat from the players and fans for ownership's decisions
.
They've finally learned to deploy the strategy NFL owners have been using successfully for years.

GB Warrior

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1061 on: June 15, 2020, 06:52:28 PM »
Does anyone hate baseball as much as owners?

JWags85

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1062 on: June 15, 2020, 06:58:18 PM »
Does anyone hate baseball as much as owners?

Most younger demographics

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1063 on: June 15, 2020, 08:10:45 PM »
Most younger demographics

Worse than hate - indifference.

MUBurrow

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1064 on: June 15, 2020, 08:50:19 PM »
I’m knee deep in nuance and support neither.

And that's fine, but the owners will gladly take that. Adjudicating equal fault and blame here benefits the owners. They have an ability to wait this out and be the bad guys in a way the players don't.  MLB franchise values grew at a 9.3% annual compounded rate from 1991-2000 despite a strike cancelling the 1990 season and the 1994 playoffs.  So they don't care about "what's good for the game." 

And those 30 guys plus Manfred know they can wait out the players on annual revenue too.  They know the players association can't keep the union together for very long with no pay.  Too many disparate interests (young vs old players, position players vs pitchers injury risk) and they know that stars won't let the primes of their careers go by holding out for a better deal.

wadesworld

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1065 on: June 15, 2020, 08:54:05 PM »
And that's fine, but the owners will gladly take that. Adjudicating equal fault and blame here benefits the owners. They have an ability to wait this out and be the bad guys in a way the players don't.  MLB franchise values grew at a 9.3% annual compounded rate from 1991-2000 despite a strike cancelling the 1990 season and the 1994 playoffs.  So they don't care about "what's good for the game." 

And those 30 guys plus Manfred know they can wait out the players on annual revenue too.  They know the players association can't keep the union together for very long with no pay.  Too many disparate interests (young vs old players, position players vs pitchers injury risk) and they know that stars won't let the primes of their careers go by holding out for a better deal.

This guy gets it.
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

buckchuckler

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1066 on: June 15, 2020, 08:57:24 PM »
This guy gets it.

Everyone gets it.  The owners are crapbags.  No one has once said otherwise.

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1067 on: June 15, 2020, 09:26:22 PM »
Everyone gets it.  The owners are crapbags.  No one has once said otherwise.

Exactly.  The owners are bad. They deserve the blame here. This is not a "both sides" situation. No one here says otherwise.  That doesn't make the other side "good." The PA has shown it's not above lying either, nor do they care any more about the fans than the owners.



Jockey

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1068 on: June 15, 2020, 09:42:56 PM »
Exactly.  The owners are bad. They deserve the blame here. This is not a "both sides" situation. No one here says otherwise.  That doesn't make the other side "good." The PA has shown it's not above lying either, nor do they care any more about the fans than the owners.

Well said.

Lennys Tap

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1069 on: June 16, 2020, 06:48:27 AM »
And that's fine, but the owners will gladly take that. Adjudicating equal fault and blame here benefits the owners. They have an ability to wait this out and be the bad guys in a way the players don't.  MLB franchise values grew at a 9.3% annual compounded rate from 1991-2000 despite a strike cancelling the 1990 season and the 1994 playoffs.  So they don't care about "what's good for the game." 

And those 30 guys plus Manfred know they can wait out the players on annual revenue too.  They know the players association can't keep the union together for very long with no pay.  Too many disparate interests (young vs old players, position players vs pitchers injury risk) and they know that stars won't let the primes of their careers go by holding out for a better deal.

The owners are greedy, stubborn and don’t give a sh!t about the fans. The players are greedy, stubborn and don’t give a sh!t about the fans. But the owners have leverage.

Jockey

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1070 on: June 16, 2020, 11:40:26 AM »
I don't understand why the players are hell bent on the 100% prorating of their contracts.  They would make more in 85% of 65 games than 100% of 50 games.  And more in 85% of 81 games than 100% in 65 games.  You'd think most players would be more interested in the bottom line they are making as opposed to their per game rate.  Especially when so many people have had to take a % reduction of their rates this year. 



Because that is what the owners and players agreed on in their March deal.

Owners want to privatize any profits they receive and socialize any loses. In other words, when the owners have made huge profits over the last 15 years, they never offered a percentage to the players. Now that there will be one year with possible losses, they want the players to be full partners.

MUBurrow

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1071 on: June 16, 2020, 11:44:43 AM »
The owners are greedy, stubborn and don’t give a sh!t about the fans. The players are greedy, stubborn and don’t give a sh!t about the fans. But the owners have leverage.

And that leverage is an increased willingness for there to be no baseball.  So if the fans interest is that baseball is played, I don't see how both parties are equally to blame for screwing over the fans.

Pakuni

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1072 on: June 16, 2020, 11:57:59 AM »
Because that is what the owners and players agreed on in their March deal.

This is where both sides really are lying.
The March deal did allow the owners to seek to reopen negotiations on financial matters if games had to be played without fans. The PA has lied about this when they claim the owners are reneging on the March deal.
At the same time, while the owners can seek to renogotiate, the players aren't obligated to do so. So the owners are full of sh-- when they say the players are acting in bad faith by declining to renegotiate the terms.
Both are exercising their rights under the deal, and both are lying about other.

MUBurrow

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1073 on: June 16, 2020, 12:24:38 PM »
This is where both sides really are lying.
The March deal did allow the owners to seek to reopen negotiations on financial matters if games had to be played without fans. The PA has lied about this when they claim the owners are reneging on the March deal.
At the same time, while the owners can seek to renogotiate, the players aren't obligated to do so. So the owners are full of sh-- when they say the players are acting in bad faith by declining to renegotiate the terms.
Both are exercising their rights under the deal, and both are lying about other.

Yup.  The deal was that MLB was free to unilaterally schedule whatever season it could, provided the players received full 100% pro rata pay.  It was inferred between the parties that if MLB chose not to schedule a season to the fullest extent it was able, the PA would file a grievance.  To head that off, MLB was able to force the parties back to the table if scheduling a season on the partial-season-for-full-pro-rata-pay model was not "economically feasible."  So the pissing match comes down to whether or not no fans makes the terms of the March agreement "economically unfeasible."
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 12:26:44 PM by MUBurrow »

Lennys Tap

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Re: MLB Hot Stove 2019-20
« Reply #1074 on: June 16, 2020, 02:45:38 PM »
This is where both sides really are lying.
The March deal did allow the owners to seek to reopen negotiations on financial matters if games had to be played without fans. The PA has lied about this when they claim the owners are reneging on the March deal.
At the same time, while the owners can seek to renogotiate, the players aren't obligated to do so. So the owners are full of sh-- when they say the players are acting in bad faith by declining to renegotiate the terms.
Both are exercising their rights under the deal, and both are lying about other.

PA lying and full of sh!t? Check.

Owners lying and full of sh!t? Check.

A pox on both of their houses.


 

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