This season will mark the 10th since Giannis was drafted by the Milwaukee Bucks. Now he holds the franchise hostage despite being a negative impact on the team, community and failing to stand up to China.
Good luck to all your favorite teams, except the Heat, Celtics and 76ers
The Spurs say Wemby is only 7-3 1/2? WTF is going on? I thought he was a legit 7'5??
Dude shrunk 1.5 inches just by breathing our fooked up air, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 28, 2023, 07:22:04 PM
Dude shrunk 1.5 inches just by breathing our fooked up air, aina?
Maybe? This is a freaking disaster.
Was Yao Ming measured at 7'6?
We define disasters differently.
Quote from: tower912 on June 28, 2023, 07:34:53 PM
We define disasters differently.
I don't lie about my height so if I'm told someone is 7'5 I assume it's the truth.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 28, 2023, 07:41:29 PM
I don't lie about my height so if I'm told someone is 7'5 I assume it's the truth.
Have I got news for you about the Marquette roster
My dad's advice to my sister about dating applies here.
'Boy's are going to lie to you.'
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 28, 2023, 07:42:11 PM
Have I got news for you about the Marquette roster
Spill it. Why can't I get accurate information?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 28, 2023, 07:46:58 PM
Spill it. Why can't I get accurate information?
The heights are always exaggerated
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 28, 2023, 07:49:49 PM
The heights are always exaggerated
Further evidence that diminutive people are discriminated against. I have never lied about my height. Even on my DL.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 28, 2023, 07:51:50 PM
Further evidence that diminutive people are discriminated against. I have never lied about my height. Even on my DL.
That's because nobody cares what short people say.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on June 28, 2023, 07:55:29 PM
That's because nobody cares what short people say.
Another example of ubiquitous discrimination.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 28, 2023, 07:19:40 PM
The Spurs say Wemby is only 7-3 1/2? WTF is going on? I thought he was a legit 7'5??
A live look at the MuggsyB household.
(https://media.tenor.com/mpmbsd82G14AAAAC/wolf-of-wall-street-jordan-belfort.gif)
That's him without shoes. They always list heights with shoes.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 28, 2023, 08:31:51 PM
That's him without shoes. They always list heights with shoes.
Oh.....ty. That changes everything. :)
Quote from: wadesworld on June 28, 2023, 08:31:51 PM
That's him without shoes. They always list heights with shoes.
Either that, or something was lost in the conversion from the metric system.
Harden, KD, and Kyrie have combined for 7 trade requests over the last 2 seasons. And Kyrie can also leave Dallas as a FA this offseason.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 29, 2023, 04:18:46 PM
Harden, KD, and Kyrie have combined for 7 trade requests over the last 2 seasons. And Kyrie can also leave Dallas as a FA this offseason.
All 3 are searching for someone to carry them to a title. Just a guess, but I don't expect another title for any.
At least Durant and Irving have been important players on championship teams, and at least Durant has been considered by his peers to have been good teammate everywhere he's been.
Harden is a proven loser who obviously has tremendous offensive skills but whose main accomplishment has been getting teams to fork over big money to him. At this point, given his track record, why would any team trade anything of value for him or pay him tens of millions of dollars?
James Harden is basically a guy who can get hot on the offensive end and that's about it. Never had good handles. Never could defend.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on June 30, 2023, 07:14:26 AM
James Harden is basically a guy who can get hot on the offensive end and that's about it. Never had good handles. Never could defend.
He "never had good handles"? He kicks the ball away a lot but has always had good handles Fluffy as has Kyrie. WTH are you talking about? He's an iso player.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 30, 2023, 07:33:07 AM
He "never had good handles"? He kicks the ball away a lot but has always had good handles Fluffy as has Kyrie. WTH are you talking about? He's an iso player.
You gonna run him as a point guard? Nope.
You're right he's an iso player, but that's not what I would call "good handles."
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on June 30, 2023, 07:42:14 AM
You gonna run him as a point guard? Nope.
You're right he's an iso player, but that's not what I would call "good handles."
That's a completely different question. Now, personally I think Muggsy had the best handles that ever lived because handles isn't just about being flashy with the rock. The man led the league in asst/turns for 6 years for a reason. That said "handles" literally means the ability to handle the basketball. I suppose you think Iverson never had good handles as well? I think your problem is you have no idea what the word/term "handles" means.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 30, 2023, 07:48:32 AM
That's a completely different question. Now, personally I think Muggsy had the best handles that ever lived because handles isn't just about being flashy with the rock. The man led the league in asst/turns for 6 years for a reason. That said "handles" literally means the ability to handle the basketball. I suppose you think Iverson never had good handles as well? I think your problem is you have no idea what the word/term "handles" means.
LOL. Sure.
Anyway, I will place as much value on your opinion on this topic as I do most of them and just roll my eyes and move on.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on June 30, 2023, 07:54:36 AM
LOL. Sure.
Anyway, I will place as much value on your opinion on this topic as I do most of them and just roll my eyes and move on.
Great explanation Fluffy. Who has good handles then based on whatever point you're trying to make? I've never heard a single person other than you state that James Harden "never had good handles". It's a ridiculous take and I can't stand Harden.
Of the 93 active players who qualify on NBA reference, his turnover percentage ranks him 83rd.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on June 30, 2023, 08:28:26 AM
Of the 93 active players who qualify on NBA reference, his turnover percentage ranks him 83rd.
That has nothing to do with how people define handles. Or how often a player has the ball in his hands. Do Iverson and Kyrie have bad handles as well? If handles were only defined as you stated then Muggsy would be #1 without a close 2nd though. Therefore from now on I'll just go with your definition. :)
At this point, Harden's best skill seems to be drawing fouls. Which I think the NBA has been trying to scale back the ability to do that.
Also, I'm not sure I'd trust him to be available much unless the local strip club has a good training room.
If DDV goes to the Knicks, when do the Jay Wright rumors start?
3yrs, 126 m for Kyrie. Wow.
Good for both sides on the Middleton contract.
4 years, 52 m is a joke for Reaves based on what other guys are signing for. The kid should absolutely be insulted and leave the Lakers.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 30, 2023, 06:06:31 PM
Good for both sides on the Middleton contract.
Yup, and sounds like the Bucks get the full MLE if Brook leaves.
Quote from: cheebs09 on June 30, 2023, 06:12:16 PM
Yup, and sounds like the Bucks get the full MLE if Brook leaves.
Lopez is leaving?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 30, 2023, 08:37:53 AM
That has nothing to do with how people define handles. Or how often a player has the ball in his hands. Do Iverson and Kyrie have bad handles as well? If handles were only defined as you stated then Muggsy would be #1 without a close 2nd though. Therefore from now on I'll just go with your definition. :)
"That said "handles" literally means the ability to handle the basketball"
This is exactly what you said.
He then posted a stat of turnover % which takes into account how often someone has the ball and the rate to which they fail to "handle it" as you say.
Are you drinking?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 30, 2023, 06:08:18 PM
4 years, 52 m is a joke for Reaves based on what other guys are signing for. The kid should absolutely be insulted and leave the Lakers.
3rd year player who has averaged 10 a game.
Contract is about right.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 30, 2023, 06:13:24 PM
Lopez is leaving?
There's some strong rumors about Houston making him a priority. Even with VanVleet, they still have some room.
Quote from: cheebs09 on June 30, 2023, 09:27:45 PM
There's some strong rumors about Houston making him a priority. Even with VanVleet, they still have some room.
People in the league do not believe it will happen and that he'll be back with the Bucks.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on June 30, 2023, 09:51:03 PM
People in the league do not believe it will happen and that he'll be back with the Bucks.
I'm hoping he's back with the Bucks and still looks like a strong possibility. Just highlighting a benefit to the contract Middleton signed.
Quote from: cheebs09 on June 30, 2023, 10:10:04 PM
I'm hoping he's back with the Bucks and still looks like a strong possibility. Just highlighting a benefit to the contract Middleton signed.
Hope he is too and I think he's expressed Bucks are his preference. His defense is so critical.
Brook will likely be back on a 2+1 like Midds. 3/60ish.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 30, 2023, 06:13:24 PM
Lopez is leaving?
Hope so. The inmates are running the asylum in Milwaukee and they need to peddle everyone and find some guys that know how to play ball unselfishly like Sam Hauser and bring Tyler Herro home. Kids a heckuva player and better than anything the Bucks have
Quote from: MUfan12 on June 30, 2023, 10:26:36 PM
Brook will likely be back on a 2+1 like Midds. 3/60ish.
I hope you're right.
Quote from: Jockey on June 30, 2023, 06:37:43 PM
3rd year player who has averaged 10 a game.
Contract is about right.
No, it's not. Have you seen some of these contracts the last 24 hrs? Reaves the 2nd half of the season and playoffs was excellent Jockey and super efficient. He's also a versatile and solid defender. He's a perfect #3 option. The guy can easily get way more than that on the open market.
Quote from: Jockey on June 30, 2023, 06:37:43 PM
3rd year player who has averaged 10 a game.
Contract is about right.
I don't know. The Lakers just gave Vincent $11M per year, they are offering Reaves, who has proven to be a far better player an offer of $13M per year.
Compare that to Bruce Brown Jr. (I'd rather have Reaves), who just got $22.5M per year.
I think someone offers Reaves an average of $20M per year. The Lakers low-balled him and are hoping to scare off suitors by saying they'll match anything, including a max-contract.
Quote from: forgetful on July 01, 2023, 10:07:54 AM
I don't know. The Lakers just gave Vincent $11M per year, they are offering Reaves, who has proven to be a far better player an offer of $13M per year.
Compare that to Bruce Brown Jr. (I'd rather have Reaves), who just got $22.5M per year.
I think someone offers Reaves an average of $20M per year. The Lakers low-balled him and are hoping to scare off suitors by saying they'll match anything, including a max-contract.
Yes. Strus also got significantly more. Jockey isn't thinking clearly here at all. Reaves is a really solid player and could fit in pretty much anywhere. Not to mention the fact he could get better the next few years.
It's been asked before, but after the past 2 days, I have to ask once again: what the hell are the Bulls doing?
Does the GM realize the Bulls were incredibly lucky to finish 40-42? They had a very healthy team last year. They are setting up to win about 30-35 games this year.
I can only hope, as a Bulls fan, that the GM is paying chess while the rest of the NBA is playing checkers.
Is the strategy to get tradable assets under contract? Their is zero chance the front office thinks they can compete for the playoffs, so what is the plan?
Dame to the Heat? Time will tell.
Makes sense now that Riley let Strus and Vincent get awau, and moved the Dipo contract off the books. Gotta make room.
https://flighttracker.com/live/flight/lol
Brook got the BAG!
Rumors that LaMelo Ball was looking to escape Charlotte for his native L.A. apparently were just that. The Charlotte Observer is reporting that Ball and the Hornets have agree d to a 5-year max contract extension that could pay him as much as $260 million.
LaMelo is a hell of an offensive player. He's one of the more gifted and creative ballhandler/passers in the world, and his 3-point shot has been much better than I thought it would be given how weird it looks.
Now if he can just stay healthy, and if the Hornets can actually build a team around him.
Quote from: MU82 on July 01, 2023, 03:27:46 PM
Rumors that LaMelo Ball was looking to escape Charlotte for his native L.A. apparently were just that. The Charlotte Observer is reporting that Ball and the Hornets have agree d to a 5-year max contract extension that could pay him as much as $260 million.
LaMelo is a hell of an offensive player. He's one of the more gifted and creative ballhandler/passers in the world, and his 3-point shot has been much better than I thought it would be given how weird it looks.
Now if he can just stay healthy, and if the Hornets can actually build a team around him.
If he wants to be in LA he'll get there. Just with more money than had he signed there as a free agent.
Quote from: MU82 on July 01, 2023, 03:27:46 PM
Rumors that LaMelo Ball was looking to escape Charlotte for his native L.A. apparently were just that. The Charlotte Observer is reporting that Ball and the Hornets have agree d to a 5-year max contract extension that could pay him as much as $260 million.
LaMelo is a hell of an offensive player. He's one of the more gifted and creative ballhandler/passers in the world, and his 3-point shot has been much better than I thought it would be given how weird it looks.
Now if he can just stay healthy, and if the Hornets can actually build a team around him.
He clearly a tremendous offensive player but that team is a ways from being formidable.
Can the Bucks move Allen and a few others for another weapon?
Quote from: wadesworld on July 01, 2023, 03:30:55 PM
If he wants to be in LA he'll get there. Just with more money than had he signed there as a free agent.
Sure, anyone can be traded or force a trade. I'd rather have him signed than not, though. He can't just leave as a free agent in 2 years with the Hornets getting nada, as happened with pretty much every other star the franchise has had.
Jae back on a 1 year deal.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 01, 2023, 04:07:12 PM
Jae back on a 1 year deal.
Great to hear, I hope he recovers from whatever dogged him this year
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 01, 2023, 03:41:20 PM
Can the Bucks move Allen and a few others for another weapon?
100% agree Muggs. He's been a major playoff choker. He should draw interest with his age, modest production, and just one year left on his contract. Really hope they can upgrade from him.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 01, 2023, 04:07:12 PM
Jae back on a 1 year deal.
Hopefully it was lot of rust that dogged him and part Budenholzer and he not meshing. They did invest 5 future picks to get him, so can see why they're hoping to reap some return on the investment still.
If it's still not working, he probably won't last the season.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on July 01, 2023, 06:48:53 PM
100% agree Muggs. He's been a major playoff choker. He should draw interest with his age, modest production, and just one year left on his contract. Really hope they can upgrade from him.
I think they need to get younger Hutch. I'm happy their core is back but their other pieces need an upgrade. Allen has been pretty much a disaster in big playoff games. Get a young gun who as the 5th option can do damage in wide open space and defend multiple spots. The question is who's available and does anyone want Allen or Connaughton?
Lillard wants to go to Miami and the Heat desperately want him.
Now all the Heat needs to do is find some sap willing to take Herro off their hands.
Quote from: MU82 on July 02, 2023, 08:48:12 AM
Lillard wants to go to Miami and the Heat desperately want him.
Now all the Heat needs to do is find some sap willing to take Herro off their hands.
He's a heckuva player
Quote from: MU82 on July 02, 2023, 08:48:12 AM
Lillard wants to go to Miami and the Heat desperately want him.
Now all the Heat needs to do is find some sap willing to take Herro off their hands.
Portland would be making a big mistake if they don't get Bam in the deal. Especially if Philly would part with Maxey.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 02, 2023, 08:59:20 AM
Portland would be making a big mistake if they don't get Bam in the deal. Especially if Philly would part with Maxey.
Don't be surprised when Pat Riley fleeces Portland.
Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on June 22, 2023, 11:00:29 AM
I suspect he resigns at a lower salary for next year so that Lopez can be resigned. That's my hope at least.
I'm so glad that actually happened and Crowder for 1 more year!
Not sure if he can veto it, but Lowry has a $30 million expiring contract. You package that with Bam for Lillard and Josef Nurick and you at least have the start of a deal. You may need to throw Caleb Martin in too.
Very hard to see Riley and Spoelstra giving up Bam IMHO - as he's almost the perfect kind of "Heat Culture" player. But I've been amazed at some of the deals that have been made, so who knows.
Quote from: MU82 on July 02, 2023, 10:43:05 AM
Very hard to see Riley and Spoelstra giving up Bam IMHO - as he's almost the perfect kind of "Heat Culture" player. But I've been amazed at some of the deals that have been made, so who knows.
You might be right. But their lack of a consistent outside scorer has been a problem. And I think they want Herro in that role...but IDK. I just don't know if the Blazers are going to want that contract in return.
Bam would not be in the package. He's the reason Lillard wants to go to Miami.
Lillard would be the outside scorer. The Heat would need to try to center the package around Herro. They have to hope the Blazers think more highly of him than most teams do.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on July 02, 2023, 11:10:39 AM
You might be right. But their lack of a consistent outside scorer has been a problem. And I think they want Herro in that role...but IDK. I just don't know if the Blazers are going to want that contract in return.
Lillard's career 3-point percentage is not far behind Herro's, and it was virtually identical the last 4 seasons (since Herro has been in the league). So he basically replaces Herro as a consistent outside scorer while also doing numerous things Herro doesn't.
I agree that Herro's contract wouldn't be very attractive for Portland, but they almost surely will have to take back a "bad" contract or two in any Lillard trade.
And if Miami traded Bam instead of Herro so they'd have more outside shooting, they'd create another hole. Bam is uniquely talented, far more difficult to replace than a shooter IMHO.
It's definitely gonna be interesting to see where Lillard lands.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 02, 2023, 11:20:37 AM
Bam would not be in the package. He's the reason Lillard wants to go to Miami.
Lillard would be the outside scorer. The Heat would need to try to center the package around Herro. They have to hope the Blazers think more highly of him than most teams do.
If Portland makes a Miami deal with no Bam the GM there should be terminated.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 02, 2023, 12:28:52 PM
If Portland makes a Miami deal with no Bam the GM there should be terminated.
🙄🙄🙄
I think given the contracts over the last few days, Herro's deal doesn't look all that terrible and unappealing anymore. Back to back years of 20+PPG/5/4 on 44/38/90 shooting splits.
Jerami Grant just got $32MM a year with similar scoring numbers, but has lower rebounding totals than Herro despite being much bigger, not to mention assists.
Cam Johnson just got 4 years at $27 per and Herro has outperformed him statistically.
And others. Which I think makes him easier to move. I think Herro, Martin, and picks will be the core of it and I think there is no way its not a multiple team deal.
Quote from: JWags85 on July 02, 2023, 03:26:58 PM
I think given the contracts over the last few days, Herro's deal doesn't look all that terrible and unappealing anymore. Back to back years of 20+PPG/5/4 on 44/38/90 shooting splits.
Jerami Grant just got $32MM a year with similar scoring numbers, but has lower rebounding totals than Herro despite being much bigger, not to mention assists.
Cam Johnson just got 4 years at $27 per and Herro has outperformed him statistically.
And others. Which I think makes him easier to move. I think Herro, Martin, and picks will be the core of it and I think there is no way its not a multiple team deal.
Good points, Wags.
In other news ...
Miles Bridges signed his $7.9 million qualifying offer to play for the Hornets next season. He had turned down a 4-year, $60M offer before the 2021-22 season and the decision seemed to have paid off, as he had a great year and was seen to be in line for at least $20M annually. But then he beat up his girlfriend in front of their kids, missed all last season, and was suspended by the league (he'll miss the first 10 games of the upcoming season). He'll be an unrestricted FA after this season, so if he plays well and stays out of trouble, he'll get a huge contract.
moriah mills is being offered up to $million dollars or more for sex tape of she and zion...she's a "porn star"?? yikes!!
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 30, 2023, 06:08:18 PM
4 years, 52 m is a joke for Reaves based on what other guys are signing for. The kid should absolutely be insulted and leave the Lakers.
You can breathe a sigh of relief, Muggs. Reaves got $6M more than that to stay with the Lakers - 4 years, $58M.
Meanwhile, a note that might (or might not) interest those who love (or hate) Tyler Herro ...
(From the Columbia State) -- Austin Herro, brother of Miami Heat guard Tyler Herro, announced Sunday he will be a preferred walk-on for South Carolina. Herro had an offer from Cal Poly but decided to walk on to play for Lamont Paris and the Gamecocks.
The 6-foot-2 guard averaged 14.8 points, 6.4 rebounds and 4.6 assists for Whitnall High School in Wisconsin last season. Paris recruited Tyler Herro when he was an assistant at Wisconsin and he committed to the Badgers. But when Paris left to become head coach at Chattanooga, Tyler Herro ended up at Kentucky.
Quote from: MU82 on July 03, 2023, 08:03:04 AM
You can breathe a sigh of relief, Muggs. Reaves got $6M more than that to stay with the Lakers - 4 years, $58M.
Meanwhile, a note that might (or might not) interest those who love (or hate) Tyler Herro ...
(From the Columbia State) -- Austin Herro, brother of Miami Heat guard Tyler Herro, announced Sunday he will be a preferred walk-on for South Carolina. Herro had an offer from Cal Poly but decided to walk on to play for Lamont Paris and the Gamecocks.
The 6-foot-2 guard averaged 14.8 points, 6.4 rebounds and 4.6 assists for Whitnall High School in Wisconsin last season. Paris recruited Tyler Herro when he was an assistant at Wisconsin and he committed to the Badgers. But when Paris left to become head coach at Chattanooga, Tyler Herro ended up at Kentucky.
Clearly Reaves wanted to stay with the Lakers because he could have gotten significantly more coin.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 03, 2023, 09:20:45 AM
Clearly Reaves wanted to stay with the Lakers because he could have gotten significantly more coin.
Not sure about that. I think he was a RFA, so the Lakers could only offer so much. Another team could have offered more but be tied up with him until the Lakers matched or not. Most expected the Lakers to match any offer so I don't think anyone wasted their time offering him. Big loss for Reaves, but that's how the system works. He may be an unhappy camper in LA.
Reaves has had most of one good season as an NBA player. He parlayed that, and good timing, into $58M. I'm not gonna worry about his financial future.
If he really thought he had a big payday coming, he could have "bet on himself" by signing a short-term contract. He wanted the security of a longer deal. Could he have maybe wrung a little more money out of the Lakers or another team by playing hardball? Maybe, but he obviously was satisfied with $14.5M a year. Can't say I blame him.
Quote from: MU82 on July 03, 2023, 09:47:52 AM
Reaves has had most of one good season as an NBA player. He parlayed that, and good timing, into $58M. I'm not gonna worry about his financial future.
If he really thought he had a big payday coming, he could have "bet on himself" by signing a short-term contract. He wanted the security of a longer deal. Could he have maybe wrung a little more money out of the Lakers or another team by playing hardball? Maybe, but he obviously was satisfied with $14.5M a year. Can't say I blame him.
He's had one good season out of two as an undrafted rookie.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 03, 2023, 02:49:10 PM
He's had one good season out of two as an undrafted rookie.
Yessir ... and he's getting paid handsomely for it -- or rather for his potential to be much better down the road.
Quote from: MU82 on July 03, 2023, 02:54:40 PM
Yessir ... and he's getting paid handsomely for it -- or rather for his potential to be much better down the road.
Ig you look at the contracts others have gotten the Lakers got him cheap. Strus and Brown aren't better players.
Kind of cool to see...
https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/1675989712564092929?s=46&t=EPgIwcjzegj_0y0aa83fHA (https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/1675989712564092929?s=46&t=EPgIwcjzegj_0y0aa83fHA)
Quote from: JWags85 on July 02, 2023, 03:26:58 PM
I think given the contracts over the last few days, Herro's deal doesn't look all that terrible and unappealing anymore. Back to back years of 20+PPG/5/4 on 44/38/90 shooting splits.
Jerami Grant just got $32MM a year with similar scoring numbers, but has lower rebounding totals than Herro despite being much bigger, not to mention assists.
Cam Johnson just got 4 years at $27 per and Herro has outperformed him statistically.
And others. Which I think makes him easier to move. I think Herro, Martin, and picks will be the core of it and I think there is no way its not a multiple team deal.
As a Heat fan, I don't understand the sudden hate on Herro. Unless it is Riley paying 3D chess, making it look like a team shouldn't want him, keeping him while getting Dame.
New intros for next year for the Grizzlies.
Beasley to the Bucks. He's a capable spot shooter.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 04, 2023, 09:51:27 AM
Beasley to the Bucks. He's a capable spot shooter.
Led the league in triples off the bench. Seems to fill a need. Also signed Brooks brother
Mavs trade for Grant Williams. OMax gets moved down the depth chart.
Good Lord the Warriors wanted out of that Poole contract. Having to include Baldwin, a first, and a second just to get Chris Paul back? Wow.
Quote from: JWags85 on July 02, 2023, 03:26:58 PM
I think given the contracts over the last few days, Herro's deal doesn't look all that terrible and unappealing anymore. Back to back years of 20+PPG/5/4 on 44/38/90 shooting splits.
Jerami Grant just got $32MM a year with similar scoring numbers, but has lower rebounding totals than Herro despite being much bigger, not to mention assists.
Cam Johnson just got 4 years at $27 per and Herro has outperformed him statistically.
And others. Which I think makes him easier to move. I think Herro, Martin, and picks will be the core of it and I think there is no way its not a multiple team deal.
Grant also has to be like 6-7 years older than Herro too.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 06, 2023, 03:42:40 PM
Good Lord the Warriors wanted out of that Poole contract. Having to include Baldwin, a first, and a second just to get Chris Paul back? Wow.
They wanted CP because of Kuminga and Moody. They weren't going to develop being on the floor with Curry, Klay, and Poole.
Weird that trading for a 39 year old is about the future.
Sounds like at least one team isn't interested in touching Herro's contract.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 07, 2023, 08:08:45 AM
Sounds like at least one team isn't interested in touching Herro's contract.
Herro to the Nets is what I've seen
Quote from: Skatastrophy on July 07, 2023, 08:48:45 AM
Herro to the Nets is what I've seen
Yup. Nets or Spurs. Blazers want nothing to do with Herro.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 07, 2023, 09:13:32 AM
Yup. Nets or Spurs. Blazers want nothing to do with Herro.
Makes sense they have a log jam at guard.
Bring his ass back ta MKE, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 07, 2023, 09:37:24 AM
Bring his ass back ta MKE, hey?
Bucks need practice players
I wonder what the most-watched Summer League game ever is ... because one would think tonight's will have a bazillion times more viewers.
Quote from: MU82 on July 07, 2023, 05:21:26 PM
I wonder what the most-watched Summer League game ever is ... because one would think tonight's will have a bazillion times more viewers.
Speaking of Wemby
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37974501/no-charges-filed-britney-spears-wembanyama-incident (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37974501/no-charges-filed-britney-spears-wembanyama-incident)
Reminds me of when my older brother used my own hand to hit me when we were kids.
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 07, 2023, 05:43:46 PM
Speaking of Wemby
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37974501/no-Reminds me of when my older brother used my own hand to hit me when we were kids.
(https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37974501/no-charges-filed-britney-spears-wembanyama-incident)
"Why do you keep hitting yourself? Huh? Huh?"
Kai Jones (Shaka recruit) just posterized Wembanyama.
Quote from: MU82 on July 07, 2023, 09:32:23 PM
Kai Jones (Shaka recruit) just posterized Wembanyama.
Based on the 15 minutes I watched he's going to be a big time bust.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on July 07, 2023, 10:11:36 PM
Based on the 15 minutes I watched he's going to be a big time bust.
Yeah, Kai hasn't had much of a career so far.
Quote from: MU82 on July 07, 2023, 10:15:06 PM
Yeah, Kai hasn't had much of a career so far.
I meant Wembanyama
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on July 08, 2023, 05:35:09 AM
I meant Wembanyama
Yes.
His first outing was predictable. He already has learned that 7-4 guys can't try a bunch of fancy dribbles through traffic against NBA-caliber (or even near-NBA- caliber) players. He learned he needs to get stronger and tougher and in better shape. He learned that NBA players (even fringe ones) aren't afraid or in awe of him.
But we all definitely saw glimpses of why he's so highly touted. He's a threat to block shots at the rim all the way out to the arc. He's smooth. He moves well. He shot poorly but his form looked very good. He's an outstanding passer and unselfish. He's obviously very intelligent.
Sky's the limit. I'm excited to see how good he becomes.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on July 08, 2023, 05:35:09 AM
I meant Wembanyama
Wemby apparently had a rough game. It sounds to me like he's at least 1.5 years away.
Wemby has talent and physical attributes to eventually be an all star.
However , it should be noted, the highlight reels are from games in the French A League. A league which in recent years has featured players the likes of Dwight Buycks, Luke Fischer and DJO.
So it will take some time for Wemby to adjust to NBA just like any other rookie. It took Giannis a few years to acclimate .
Yes. A 19 year old from France may take a minute to adapt. I do not see him as the next Darko Milicic.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 08, 2023, 09:20:10 AM
Wemby apparently had a rough game. It sounds to me like he's at least 1.5 years away.
Absolutely. It's just common sense to use one exhibition game as the template for his career.
He's going to be very good this year.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 08, 2023, 11:23:27 AM
He's going to be very good this year.
18, 10, and 3 bllks good? That's what I wrote down as my goal for him.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 08, 2023, 12:25:06 PM
18, 10, and 3 bllks good? That's what I wrote down as my goal for him.
Your goal for him as a rookie? Hmm. He'll be going against pros, but he'll also have pros on his team -- though not the greatest collection of them.
Your goal for him beyond his rookie season? Believe it or not, the last player to average 18-10-3 in a non-lockout year was David Robinson all the way back in 1995-96. A few players (very few, but a few) had the points and rebounds but were a fraction short of 3 blocks -- most recently, AD averaged 2.9 blocks (along with 24.4 points and 10.2 rebs in 2014-15). In other words, it's quite an accomplishment to average 18-10-3.
Can Wembanyama do it? The beautiful thing is that we don't have to guess how good he'll be; he'll show us exactly how good he'll be!
Probably shoulda stopped ta see what Spears had in mind, aina?
I'd bet on over 15 points, over 7 rebounds, and over 3 assists per game for him this year. Over 1 block, but he's thin and 3 blocks is a lot.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 08, 2023, 12:55:02 PM
I'd bet on over 15 points, over 7 rebounds, and over 3 assists per game for him this year. Over 1 block, but he's thin and 3 blocks is a lot.
That all seems very attainable as long as he stays healthy, wades.
A goal I have for him isn't really for him -- it's for announcers. Get his darn name right! Last night, Mark Jones called him "Wembanya
Na" for most of the first half. Someone obviously got in Jones' ear and finally corrected him, because he started to say "Wem-ban-ya-ma" very slowly, annunciating the "yama" each time. Then, late in the game, said "yana" again. Shoulda just stuck with Wemby or Victor!
Quote from: MU82 on July 08, 2023, 08:57:48 AM
Yes.
His first outing was predictable. He already has learned that 7-4 guys can't try a bunch of fancy dribbles through traffic against NBA-caliber (or even near-NBA- caliber) players. He learned he needs to get stronger and tougher and in better shape. He learned that NBA players (even fringe ones) aren't afraid or in awe of him.
But we all definitely saw glimpses of why he's so highly touted. He's a threat to block shots at the rim all the way out to the arc. He's smooth. He moves well. He shot poorly but his form looked very good. He's an outstanding passer and unselfish. He's obviously very intelligent.
Sky's the limit. I'm excited to see how good he becomes.
This is a very rational analysis/post.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 08, 2023, 12:51:59 PM
Probably shoulda stopped ta see what Spears had in mind, aina?
That's against the bible
Quote from: MU82 on July 08, 2023, 01:16:30 PM
A goal I have for him isn't really for him -- it's for announcers. Get his darn name right! Last night, Mark Jones called him "WembanyaNa" for most of the first half.
I want to hear Wenbanyamanamanah (Doo doo dah doo doo).
(https://media.tenor.com/jggMYMwK_OEAAAAC/sesame-street-mah-n%C3%A0mah-n%C3%A0.gif)
Luka didn't play Summer League. He had a full offseason of practices and NBA activities before playing his first NBA game with high level teammates and structure. And he went 10/8/4 and shot an abysmal 5/16 and 0/5 from 3. He averaged 22+ over his next 5 and shot much better.
Point being. It's just 1 game. And it's Summer League. Wemby will be fine and likely have a couple of WOW games and stretches during Summer League
Quote from: JWags85 on July 08, 2023, 05:47:26 PM
Luka didn't play Summer League. He had a full offseason of practices and NBA activities before playing his first NBA game with high level teammates and structure. And he went 10/8/4 and shot an abysmal 5/16 and 0/5 from 3. He averaged 22+ over his next 5 and shot much better.
Point being. It's just 1 game. And it's Summer League. Wemby will be fine and likely have a couple of WOW games and stretches during Summer League
One of the Ball brothers, I think the one on the Bulls (I get them confused) started Summer League with like a 3-15 game and wound up as Summer League MVP.
Here's The Athletic's quickie take of Wembanyama's summer debut:
In the most-hyped NBA Summer League game we can remember, Victor Wembanyama looked ... mortal. With luminaries like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Jerry West in the sold-out crowd, the Spurs' No. 1 pick struggled offensively, scoring nine points on 2-of-13 shooting to go with eight rebounds and five blocks in a win over the Hornets. Cue the 2023 redrafts. (We kid.)
It was a good reminder that Wembanyama is still a 19-year-old kid transitioning to a new country, new employer and new competition. Not easy, even if you're a wildly skilled 7-foot-4.
His first appearance showed the weight of expectation and need for patience, Marcus Thompson II writes. There's a mental side to entering the league with more hype than any player since LeBron James. "Honestly, I didn't really know what I was doing on the court tonight," he said. "I'm trying to learn for next game."
While Wembanyama's best moments came on the defensive end, though the highlight of the game came at his expense when Hornets third-year center Kai Jones threw down an alley-oop over the rookie.
While it won't be a video game every night, Wembanyama was still intriguing — and towering, Mike Vorkunov writes. That the mystique was still apparent on a night he didn't have his shot is a sign itself that he's special. (And just staying healthy was a win on Friday night — the Nos. 3 and 4 picks, Scoot Henderson and Amen Thompson, left the Blazers-Rockets game with injuries.)
Wembanyama's coach certainly isn't going anywhere. Gregg Popovich signed a five-year contract Saturday, committing to the Wemby project with a deal that will take him until he's 79 years old.
Wemby definitely needs to get stronger.
And wiser. Spears ain't just sum trailer trash fangirl, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 09, 2023, 07:13:08 PM
And wiser. Spears ain't just sum trailer trash fangirl, hey?
She's old enough to be Wemby's mom!
Aggressive women with lotsa bread usually have away of getting what they want, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 09, 2023, 07:32:38 PM
Aggressive women with lotsa bread usually have away of getting what they want, aina?
Wemby likely had no earthly idea who she was.
Shirley, he watched Mickey Mouse Club, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 09, 2023, 07:47:06 PM
Shirley, he watched Mickey Mouse Club, aina?
It was cancelled a decade before Wembanyama was born.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 09, 2023, 07:47:06 PM
Shirley, he watched Mickey Mouse Club, aina?
I'm sure he's heard of her obviously but maybe he's saving himself for Madonna.
Wemby may be ok.
He'll be very good. Yes, he'll get beat up at times. But he's incredibly skilled and incredibly tall.
Quote from: tower912 on July 09, 2023, 08:50:59 PM
Wemby may be ok.
He has a lot of impressive skills. He definitely needs to get stronger.
Most 19 year-olds need to get stronger.
Quote from: tower912 on July 09, 2023, 09:07:53 PM
Most 19 year-olds need to get stronger.
His ideal playing weight?
Heel likely mary Brittany or at least goe on da honeymoon, hey?
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 09, 2023, 09:20:36 PM
His ideal playing weight?
He's listed anywhere from 205-220. I think 245-250 would suit him well. He's never gonna be super thick but that will at least give him some more durability.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 09, 2023, 09:20:36 PM
His ideal playing weight?
Wemby has been quoted as saying he wants to do some lifting between now and training camp
Will Jeff Van Gundy go to TNT now? He was the only person canned by ESPN that surprised me.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 13, 2023, 07:40:20 PM
Will Jeff Van Gundy go to TNT now? He was the only person canned by ESPN that surprised me.
Current ESPN contract with the NBA ends in '24-'25, iirc. Hopefully TNT steals it from them. ESPN does a pretty poor job with their NBA product.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on July 13, 2023, 07:55:52 PM
Current ESPN contract with the NBA ends in '24-'25, iirc. Hopefully TNT steals it from them. ESPN does a pretty poor job with their NBA product.
No doubt about that. Breen is good and that 3 man team had been together a long time. The non broadcasters at ESPN covering the NBA are beyond awful.
Has there been any discussion of the NBA's in-season tournament (https://www.nba.com/news/in-season-tournament-101) (the "NBA Cup") on here? I looked but didn't see anything. Rarely does sports news like this completely sneak up on me, but I hadn't heard anything about this until my daughter mentioned it yesterday.
I think it sounds kind of cool. We'll see how it plays out.
Trying something fun at the beginning of the season. Worth a shot.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on July 14, 2023, 10:37:49 AM
Trying something fun at the beginning of the season. Worth a shot.
I agree. Why not? Maybe it's fantastic. Maybe it sucks. But worth a shot. It's not like November basketball is particularly compelling. If it makes a few of the 82 games a bit more interesting -- and I think it will -- then I think it's a good thing.
Looking forward to the chance to win midseason silverware. Should be a blast?
Quote from: Skatastrophy on July 14, 2023, 11:09:57 AM
Looking forward to the chance to win midseason silverware. Should be a blast?
The NBA's CBI. Maybe the Bulls and Magic can hang a banner.
The 1st episode of the Goliath doc on Wilt Chamberlain is excellent, can't wait to finish the other 2.
Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on July 17, 2023, 01:09:38 PM
The 1st episode of the Goliath doc on Wilt Chamberlain is excellent, can't wait to finish the other 2.
Where can I watch that? I see Showtime but that's it.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 17, 2023, 06:47:05 PM
Where can I watch that? I see Showtime but that's it.
Showtime only for now.
Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on July 18, 2023, 07:47:51 AM
Showtime only for now.
Ty.
Wilt was very cool. I have to laugh when the so called experts slot him out of the top 10. Look at his numbers and deal with reality. :)
Wilt's a tough player to slot on all-time lists.
Statistically, he's absolutely top 5 and arguably #1. And it's not as if he only lost; his teams won a huge percentage of their games. He also won two NBA titles -- 1 more than Oscar and Dr. J, the same as Hakeem and Durant, 2 more than Mailman and Stockton, only 1 fewer than Bird, etc. His impact was huge, too -- the literally changed the rules to make him less dominant.
But he so often couldn't lift his team past Russell's Celtics, and he lost to the Knicks when Willis Reed could barely walk. And lots of people didn't like him because he was a trash-talker back when that wasn't considered cool and because he wanted to get paid and because he was "selfish." So he gets docked in some rankings.
The only players I'd definitely rank ahead of Wilt are Jordan, Magic and LeBron. Excellent arguments could be made for Kareem and Russell. I don't see how anybody else could possibly be ahead of him.
Quote from: MU82 on July 18, 2023, 08:59:13 AM
Wilt's a tough player to slot on all-time lists.
Statistically, he's absolutely top 5 and arguably #1. And it's not as if he only lost; his teams won a huge percentage of their games. He also won two NBA titles -- 1 more than Oscar and Dr. J, the same as Hakeem and Durant, 2 more than Mailman and Stockton, only 1 fewer than Bird, etc. His impact was huge, too -- the literally changed the rules to make him less dominant.
But he so often couldn't lift his team past Russell's Celtics, and he lost to the Knicks when Willis Reed could barely walk. And lots of people didn't like him because he was a trash-talker back when that wasn't considered cool and because he wanted to get paid and because he was "selfish." So he gets docked in some rankings.
The only players I'd definitely rank ahead of Wilt are Jordan, Magic and LeBron. Excellent arguments could be made for Kareem and Russell. I don't see how anybody else could possibly be ahead of him.
I'm surprised you would slot Magic ahead of Kareem. My take is it's literally insane not to have Wilt in the top 10 and probably top 5. I believe Stephen A. Smith had him outside the top 10. LOL.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 18, 2023, 09:19:16 AM
I'm surprised you would slot Magic ahead of Kareem. My take is it's literally insane not to have Wilt in the top 10 and probably top 5. I believe Stephen A. Smith had him outside the top 10. LOL.
I appreciate Kareem for sure - what a great career. It wouldn't take a lot of arm-twisting to put him right with Magic, but I'm obviously a big believer in everything Magic brought to the table.
The Lakers wouldn't have been the dominant team of the 80s without both Magic and Kareem, but IMO Magic was more important for those teams than Kareem was. The Lakers were actually pretty average before Magic arrived despite Kareem being at his peak, and I know it was more than just his addition, but they turned it around instantly after he got on board.
And Magic got to the Finals once without Kareem as well.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on July 18, 2023, 10:11:12 AM
The Lakers wouldn't have been the dominant team of the 80s without both Magic and Kareem, but IMO Magic was more important for those teams than Kareem was. The Lakers were actually pretty average before Magic arrived despite Kareem being at his peak, and I know it was more than just his addition, but they turned it around instantly after he got on board.
And Magic got to the Finals once without Kareem as well.
I think Kareem had a decent career in Milwaukee.
It's not a slam dunk. I rate Magic a little higher than Kareem but I totally could see it being the other way around.
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 18, 2023, 10:25:18 AM
I think Kareem had a decent career in Milwaukee.
Undoubtedly. I was specifically talking about his time with the Lakers. I guess whether or not that was his "peak" is debatable.
Kareem is one of the top-5 basketball players of all-time. Include his amateur career and it's to find anyone who has as complete a record.
Had to play on the freshman team in college. Played three dominant seasons on varsity. If he doesn't have to play college ball, who knows what his final career numbers
He gets lost because Magic was the face of the Lakers along with Pat Riley. Was finals MVP in 1985.
Any discussion without him is silly
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 18, 2023, 12:08:46 PM
Kareem is one of the top-5 basketball players of all-time. Include his amateur career and it's to find anyone who has as complete a record.
Had to play on the freshman team in college. Played three dominant seasons on varsity. If he doesn't have to play college ball, who knows what his final career numbers
He gets lost because Magic was the face of the Lakers along with Pat Riley. Was finals MVP in 1985.
Any discussion without him is silly
Agreed. In my opinion, him and Duncan are the two players who are widely considered all time greats, yet are still underrated/underappreciated.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on July 18, 2023, 11:11:41 AM
Undoubtedly. I was specifically talking about his time with the Lakers. I guess whether or not that was his "peak" is debatable.
That and trying to give Magic a "point" by saying he made it to a Finals without Kareem. Kareem averaged over 30 points a game in Milwaukee, and won a ring
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 18, 2023, 12:08:46 PM
Kareem is one of the top-5 basketball players of all-time. Include his amateur career and it's to find anyone who has as complete a record.
Had to play on the freshman team in college. Played three dominant seasons on varsity. If he doesn't have to play college ball, who knows what his final career numbers
He gets lost because Magic was the face of the Lakers along with Pat Riley. Was finals MVP in 1985.
Any discussion without him is silly
I rank him ahead of MJ and LeBron.
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 18, 2023, 12:39:29 PM
That and trying to give Magic a "point" by saying he made it to a Finals without Kareem. Kareem averaged over 30 points a game in Milwaukee, and won a ring
I was specifically talking about their role on the Lakers. Kareem didn't get to the Finals without Magic in LA. Closest he got was a blowout sweep by the Blazers in the WCF. But Magic did get there without Kareem.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on July 18, 2023, 12:57:15 PM
I was specifically talking about their role on the Lakers. Kareem didn't get to the Finals without Magic in LA. Closest he got was a blowout sweep by the Blazers in the WCF. But Magic did get there without Kareem.
So you're comparing it to Curry and Durant- except in that case, you defend Durant despite not being able to win without Curry.
A bit of an inconsistent argument.
Quote from: Jockey on July 18, 2023, 12:54:54 PM
I rank him ahead of MJ and LeBron.
I do, too. If we're talking just NBA, fine, put those two ahead of him. Overall body of work? Kareem has the edge, imo.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 18, 2023, 02:05:43 PM
I do, too. If we're talking just NBA, fine, put those two ahead of him. Overall body of work? Kareem has the edge, imo.
What body of work?
LeBron was going all-star games, leading teams to the NBA playoffs and scoring 30+ ppg in the league at the same age Kareem was dominating undersized and overwhelmed teenagers in college.
Put 20-21 year old LeBron on those UCLA teams, and I don't imagine the results being any different.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 18, 2023, 02:12:00 PM
What body of work?
Exactly. What professional athletes in baseball, football, hockey, basketball, etc. did before they reached "the show" is beside the point in discussions about the GOAT. For example, nobody talks about Brady's less than spectacular career at Michigan. Or looks at minor league stats of Aaron vs Mays.
Quote from: Jockey on July 18, 2023, 01:21:16 PM
So you're comparing it to Curry and Durant- except in that case, you defend Durant despite not being able to win without Curry.
A bit of an inconsistent argument.
??? There is no inconsistency. I think Magic was more important that Kareem in the Lakers success, but said that they would not have been the best team of the 80s without both. They may not have even won a championship if one of them weren't on the team.
What does that have to do with Durant being the better player than Curry when they were on the Warriors together?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 18, 2023, 02:37:17 PM
Exactly. What professional athletes in baseball, football, hockey, basketball, etc. did before they reached "the show" is beside the point in discussions about the GOAT. For example, nobody talks about Brady's less than spectacular career at Michigan. Or looks at minor league stats of Aaron vs Mays.
OMG. Lenny and Pakuni agree on something! With that being said, most on here who dont have Kareem above Magic never saw Kareem in his prime. Not 33 year old Kareem with the goggles. but Kareem averaging 35 and 17 and 5 with the Bucks and 6 MVPs vs 3 for Magic
I saw all of Kareem's career. He was effen great. Magic was effen great, too.
Body of work? Like Lew, Magic also was pretty darn good in high school and college.
Both were super-duper-duper stars and deserving of all accolades.
I still rank Jordan and James ahead of both, but respect those who disagree.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 18, 2023, 02:12:00 PM
What body of work?
LeBron was going all-star games, leading teams to the NBA playoffs and scoring 30+ ppg in the league at the same age Kareem was dominating undersized and overwhelmed teenagers in college.
Put 20-21 year old LeBron on those UCLA teams, and I don't imagine the results being any different.
And we can say the same about Kareem had he been able to play in the NBA out of high school.
He gets dismissed because he played with Magic
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 18, 2023, 02:37:17 PM
Exactly. What professional athletes in baseball, football, hockey, basketball, etc. did before they reached "the show" is beside the point in discussions about the GOAT. For example, nobody talks about Brady's less than spectacular career at Michigan. Or looks at minor league stats of Aaron vs Mays.
Kareem changed the game of basketball from high school through the pros. It absolutely should matter.
The same way Lebron did living up to the hype
Is Magic automatically better than Bird? It seems to me it's about 60/40.
Quote from: MU82 on July 18, 2023, 03:37:46 PM
I saw all of Kareem's career. He was effen great. Magic was effen great, too.
Body of work? Like Lew, Magic also was pretty darn good in high school and college.
Both were super-duper-duper stars and deserving of all accolades.
I still rank Jordan and James ahead of both, but respect those who disagree.
As an aside, I thought Greg Kelser had the best game of anyone in that Championship game MSU v ISU.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 18, 2023, 04:10:23 PM
Is Magic automatically better than Bird? It seems to me it's about 60/40.
Yes. Not even a question.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 18, 2023, 03:58:34 PM
He gets dismissed because he played with Magic
Unk, being a top-5 all-time player that some might rank a tiny tad behind Jordan, James and Magic isn't the same as getting "dismissed."
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 18, 2023, 04:10:23 PM
Is Magic automatically better than Bird?
Sure.
Quote from: MU82 on July 18, 2023, 04:14:34 PM
Unk, being a top-5 all-time player that some might rank a tiny tad behind Jordan, James and Magic isn't the same as getting "dismissed."
Sure.
Poorly worded. Dismissed by the general basketball populace when this discussion comes up, not necessarily scoop
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 18, 2023, 04:15:36 PM
Poorly worded. Dismissed by the general basketball populace when this discussion comes up, not necessarily scoop
Understood.
And now that I re-read my response to Muggs it might seem I'm dismissing Bird. That certainly wasn't my intent. Magic was better in the minds and eyes of most non-Celtic-fan observers, but Bird obviously was a hell of a player.
Quote from: MU82 on July 18, 2023, 04:21:05 PM
Understood.
And now that I re-read my response to Muggs it might seem I'm dismissing Bird. That certainly wasn't my intent. Magic was better in the minds and eyes of most non-Celtic-fan observers, but Bird obviously was a hell of a player.
I'd take Bird over Magic and I hated the Celtics.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on July 18, 2023, 04:11:35 PM
Yes. Not even a question.
It's not a ridiculous question.
Stats nerds have them pretty close, especially when comparing their peak years.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lebron-or-mj-raptor-picks-the-best-nba-players-of-the-past-40-years/
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=nba+player+efficiency+rating+leaders+all-time
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/vorp_career.html
Quote from: Pakuni on July 18, 2023, 04:42:10 PM
It's not a ridiculous question.
Stats nerds have them pretty close, especially when comparing their peak years.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lebron-or-mj-raptor-picks-the-best-nba-players-of-the-past-40-years/
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=nba+player+efficiency+rating+leaders+all-time
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/vorp_career.html
I didn't think it was a ridiculous question.
Petrocelli, wen ewe played with Alcindor at Power Memorial, did Lew ever talk 'bout Al checkin' fore cracked sidewalks in front of hiz crib, hey?
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 18, 2023, 04:10:23 PM
Is Magic automatically better than Bird? It seems to me it's about 60/40.
51/49
Quote from: Pakuni on July 18, 2023, 04:42:10 PM
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=nba+player+efficiency+rating+leaders+all-time
Anyone know how they figure out the PER of the old timers when steals and blocks weren't really tracked?
My favorite guy of that era is Moses. Why is he so disrespected? :) I also like Dominique, Bernard King, and George Gervin.
Bird was like a smaller Jokic?? But a better pure scorer?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 18, 2023, 04:26:18 PM
I'd take Bird over Magic and I hated the Celtics.
We'll respectfully agree to disagree, Unk.
How good was Nate Archibald in the DPR? Diminutive Player Rankings. Behind Thomas, Stockton, and CP3?
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 18, 2023, 07:06:06 PM
My favorite guy of that era is Moses. Why is he so disrespected? :) I also like Dominique, Bernard King, and George Gervin.
I don't think so. He is not in the top tier with Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Duncan, Robinson.
But still a top 20-25 all timer.
Quote from: Jockey on July 18, 2023, 07:35:25 PM
I don't think so. He is not in the top tier with Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Duncan, Robinson.
But still a top 20-25 all timer.
He's a 3 time MVP I believe. My hot take is that he and Elgin Baylor should get a bit more credit.
Hold up a sec.....Robinson? Did you mean Hakeem and did you forget about Shaq?
My bad....only two MVP's.
Your 9 man rotation in this era?
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 18, 2023, 07:38:22 PM
He's a 3 time MVP I believe. My hot take is that he and Elgin Baylor should get a bit more credit.
Hold up a sec.....Robinson? Did you mean Hakeem and did you forget about Shaq?
Yes, Robinson. But I neglected to add Shaq and Hakeem.
Si, yes Moses doesn't get enough props, but it is because of all the great centers.
Quote from: Jockey on July 18, 2023, 09:06:07 PM
Yes, Robinson. But I neglected to add Shaq and Hakeem.
Si, yes Moses doesn't get enough props, but it is because of all the great centers.
I haven't heard many people put Robinson ahead of Moses. And he clearly wasn't as good as Shaq or Hakeem.
Quote from: Jockey on July 18, 2023, 07:35:25 PM
I don't think so. He is not in the top tier with Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Duncan, Robinson.
But still a top 20-25 all timer.
I missed the comma at first and thought you were nuts
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 18, 2023, 09:53:38 PM
I missed the comma at first and thought you were nuts
(https://i.imgur.com/7i9K1yK.png)
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 18, 2023, 07:56:03 PM
Your 9 man rotation in this era?
Starting
Guards: Luka & Steph
Wings: Giannis, Tatum
C: Joker
Bench
Bron, Booker, Embiid, KD
Honorable mention
Shai, Dame, Ja, Mitchell, and a healthy AD
Quote from: reinko on July 19, 2023, 11:54:59 AM
Starting
Guards: Luka & Steph
Wings: Giannis, Tatum
C: Joker
Bench
Bron, Booker, Embiid, KD
Honorable mention
Shai, Dame, Ja, Mitchell, and a healthy AD
No love for JFB?
Jimmy has ranked 6th, 14th and 5th in PER the past three seasons.
Ja is 17th, 9th and 103rd.
Mitchell is 19th, 29th and 32nd
Book is 23rd, 33rd and 58th
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on July 18, 2023, 04:11:35 PM
Yes. Not even a question.
Magic gets the nod, but your dismissal of Bird is weird.
The resumes for the two are both amazing, Bird was clearly the better defender.
Both had their careers cut short. The who was better Magic or Bird is a long lasting argument for a reason.
Quote from: forgetful on July 19, 2023, 12:51:17 PM
Magic gets the nod, but your dismissal of Bird is weird.
The resumes for the two are both amazing, Bird was clearly the better defender.
Both had their careers cut short. The who was better Magic or Bird is a long lasting argument for a reason.
Both guys are before my time forgetful but I echo your sentiments and was shocked by Fluffy's statement. Maybe he just wasn't thinking clearly?
Quote from: forgetful on July 19, 2023, 12:51:17 PM
Magic gets the nod, but your dismissal of Bird is weird.
The resumes for the two are both amazing, Bird was clearly the better defender.
Both had their careers cut short. The who was better Magic or Bird is a long lasting argument for a reason.
You continuously overrate Bird - at one point you claimed he was better than Lebron. So I'm not taking any opinion you have on the matter seriously.
Magic was clearly better. Not even a question.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 19, 2023, 01:33:51 PM
Both guys are before my time forgetful but I echo your sentiments and was shocked by Fluffy's statement. Maybe he just wasn't thinking clearly?
I saw them hundreds of times. I have no problem with someone thinking Magic was better or vice versa.
To dismiss Bird as vastly inferior is silly.
Quote from: Jockey on July 19, 2023, 01:57:56 PM
I saw them hundreds of times. I have no problem with someone thinking Magic was better or vice versa.
To dismiss Bird as vastly inferior is silly.
I never said he was "vastly inferior." The gulf between them wasn't wide, but it was clear.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on July 19, 2023, 02:03:35 PM
I never said he was "vastly inferior." The gulf between them wasn't wide, but it was clear.
My bad. So basically we just disagree.
Quote from: reinko on July 19, 2023, 11:54:59 AM
Starting
Guards: Luka & Steph
Wings: Giannis, Tatum
C: Joker
Bench
Bron, Booker, Embiid, KD
Honorable mention
Shai, Dame, Ja, Mitchell, and a healthy AD
I was thinking if you could choose 9 players from any era to play in today's game? It's extremely difficult imo.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on July 19, 2023, 01:46:04 PM
You continuously overrate Bird - at one point you claimed he was better than Lebron. So I'm not taking any opinion you have on the matter seriously.
Magic was clearly better. Not even a question.
Unnecessary attack here Fluffy. You seem to not be thinking clearly on this one and your clarifications haven't really helped. As stated above there's a reason why people have debated this question.
(Teal) Giannis supports murder if journalists?!
https://twitter.com/giannis_an34/status/1683549442287255552?s=46&t=G2FhP_F2kWewaBOpvRv5lg
Jaylen Brown gets the biggest contract in NBA history.
Zoom!
Quote from: MU82 on July 25, 2023, 04:41:45 PM
Jaylen Brown gets the biggest contract in NBA history.
Zoom!
Nice score for a guy that might barely be top 20 in the league.
Quote from: MU82 on July 25, 2023, 04:41:45 PM
Jaylen Brown gets the biggest contract in NBA history.
Zoom!
I overshot him earlier last season but Wow. I'm shocked the C's did this.
Incredible for a guy with shoddy handles and no left hand. Tatum is gonna make $500MM
The feeling is they "had" to do it. And now that it's been proven over and over and over again that guys with humongous, multiyear contracts can still be traded, I guess the decision wasn't all that tough for them.
But it still does make you do a double-take when such a flawed player -- not to mention a guy who isn't even close to being his team's best player and who hasn't won a thing -- can get the richest contract in the history of the sport.
Tatum and Brown both fold in big moments, and I don't see them getting any more resilient. I'm not sure the Celtics will make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs with those guys.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on July 25, 2023, 07:47:20 PM
Tatum and Brown both fold in big moments, and I don't see them getting any more resilient. I'm not sure the Celtics will make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs with those guys.
What? They've only been past the 2nd round of the Playoffs with those guys 5 times with Brown (in 7 seasons) and 4 times with Tatum (in 6 seasons)...
Tatum had 46 and 9 in game 6 at Milwaukee last year and had 51 and 13 in game 7 against the 76ers this year.
They're 26 and 25 years old and have been to a Finals and 4/3 other Conference Finals.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 25, 2023, 09:28:59 PM
What? They've only been past the 2nd round of the Playoffs with those guys 5 times with Brown (in 7 seasons) and 4 times with Tatum (in 6 seasons)...
Tatum had 46 and 9 in game 6 at Milwaukee last year and had 51 and 13 in game 7 against the 76ers this year.
They're 26 and 25 years old and have been to a Finals and 4/3 other Conference Finals.
They can inconsistently put up some big numbers, but both of them fold when the going gets tough. Nothing against their talent or their ability to put up big numbers.
My argument is that the Cs just traded away guys that played with a chip on their shoulder (Smart and Grant Williams) and kept the guys that haven't found their confidence yet in bigger moments. You need to have *someone* willing to play with toughness even when things get rough. Both Brown and Tatum get caught up in their own feelings for entire games if they get punched in the teeth.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on July 26, 2023, 07:46:27 AM
They can inconsistently put up some big numbers, but both of them fold when the going gets tough. Nothing against their talent or their ability to put up big numbers.
My argument is that the Cs just traded away guys that played with a chip on their shoulder (Smart and Grant Williams) and kept the guys that haven't found their confidence yet in bigger moments. You need to have *someone* willing to play with toughness even when things get rough. Both Brown and Tatum get caught up in their own feelings for entire games if they get punched in the teeth.
Tatum is 25, Brown is 26. I'm surprised Brown got that much but it could be because the salary cap is going way up. As far as "folding when things get tough" Tatum has had duds but he's also had a number of huge playoff performances. Again, he's 25. I think in his case you're being a bit too harsh.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on July 26, 2023, 07:46:27 AM
They can inconsistently put up some big numbers, but both of them fold when the going gets tough. Nothing against their talent or their ability to put up big numbers.
My argument is that the Cs just traded away guys that played with a chip on their shoulder (Smart and Grant Williams) and kept the guys that haven't found their confidence yet in bigger moments. You need to have *someone* willing to play with toughness even when things get rough. Both Brown and Tatum get caught up in their own feelings for entire games if they get punched in the teeth.
Sure, if we ignore the big games they had in giant moments those guys haven't proven they can step up in the biggest games.
Tatum is one of my least favorite players in the NBA. His constant crying at the refs is annoying. But the fact that you think the C's can't get past the second round with Tatum/Brown when those two have gone past the second round in 5 of Brown's 7 years in the NBA and 4 of Tatum's 6 years in the NBA says you might have some black and red colored sunglasses on. They've been past the second round more times in 4 (Brown) and 5 (Tatum) fewer years in the NBA than Himmy (3 times).
For me, it was just the momentary shock of "Wait, Jaylen Brown is the highest-paid player in NBA history"?
It's just the way the collective bargaining agreement works and the fact that the Celtics pretty much had to do this.
Brown obviously is talented. It took Jordan and Pippen years to win a title; maybe next season will be Tatum and Brown's turn. Or maybe they'll be Stockton and Malone; most long-time NBA observers don't consider them to be "failures."
Other Lebron related news
https://nypost.com/2023/07/26/woman-in-vegas-brawl-is-exec-for-lebron-james-tequila/amp/
Van Gundy and Jackson out ... Doc Rivers and Doris Burke in as analysts on ESPN's top NBA announcing crew. Mike Breen continues as PBP man.
https://nypost.com/2023/07/31/espn-hiring-doc-rivers-demoting-mark-jackson-promoting-doris-burke/
"For me, it was just the momentary shock of "Wait, Jaylen Brown is the highest-paid player in NBA history"?"
for the moment anyway
Quote from: MU82 on August 01, 2023, 10:24:29 AM
Van Gundy and Jackson out ... Doc Rivers and Doris Burke in as analysts on ESPN's top NBA announcing crew. Mike Breen continues as PBP man.
https://nypost.com/2023/07/31/espn-hiring-doc-rivers-demoting-mark-jackson-promoting-doris-burke/
That is atrociously brutal. Hopefully TNT hires those two.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 01, 2023, 05:20:28 PM
That is atrociously brutal. Hopefully TNT hires those two.
Mark Jackson is terrible
Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 01, 2023, 05:27:35 PM
Mark Jackson is terrible
He's bad, but he balances out Van Gundy well.
Who is going to be stuck with Mark Jones?
Quote from: wadesworld on August 01, 2023, 05:32:18 PM
He's bad, but he balances out Van Gundy well.
Breaking up that trio doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me even if Jackson is the weak link.
Stick to sports? Shut up and dribble?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/02/politics/orlando-magic-desantis-super-pac-donation/index.html
Orlando is owned by members of the Devos family.
Quote from: tower912 on August 03, 2023, 05:37:02 AM
Orlando is owned by members of the Devos family.
Are we not men?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Are_We_Not_Men_We_Are_Devo%21.jpg)
Bravo.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 03, 2023, 01:01:44 AM
Stick to sports? Shut up and dribble?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/02/politics/orlando-magic-desantis-super-pac-donation/index.html
They don't want to get Disneyed. Their Black players are probably cool with the slavery-as-jobs-program position, too.
Rick Barry on Jaylen Brown contract . The imbedded video is excellent .
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10085820-video-nba-champion-rick-barry-blasts-jaylen-browns-304m-celtics-supermax-contract.amp.html
Harden will not be playing for the Sixers again. Philly is pretty much screwed because I don't see them getting much for him.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 14, 2023, 08:33:14 AM
Harden will not be playing for the Sixers again. Philly is pretty much screwed because I don't see them getting much for him.
Harden=No Rings, very few finals appearance, high drama. Money better spent elsewhere.
Harden should have never opted in for this year, but I think he is finding out that people don't view him as the star he once was.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on August 14, 2023, 09:03:22 AM
Harden should have never opted in for this year, but I think he is finding out that people don't view him as the star he once was.
They may have no choice but to trade him. Unless Morey is canned.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on August 14, 2023, 09:03:22 AM
Harden should have never opted in for this year, but I think he is finding out that people don't view him as the star he once was.
Now I could be 100% wrong about this, but I thought the Sixers asked him to sign the extension to make it easier to trade him for good value. He maybe pissed that he signed the deal and the Sixers reneged on their side of the deal.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 14, 2023, 03:01:08 PM
Now I could be 100% wrong about this, but I thought the Sixers asked him to sign the extension to make it easier to trade him for good value. He maybe pissed that he signed the deal and the Sixers reneged on their side of the deal.
IIRC, he signed his player option at the team's suggestion
Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on August 14, 2023, 04:16:19 PM
IIRC, he signed his player option at the team's suggestion
Yes. He redid his deal last year to create cap space and got the player option.
So while I am not a big Harden fan, I get why he is upset. He could have simply declined his option. But I'm sure he thought a trade would come with a big extension, which is easier if you are already under contract.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on August 14, 2023, 04:18:33 PM
Yes. He redid his deal last year to create cap space and got the player option.
So while I am not a big Harden fan, I get why he is upset. He could have simply declined his option. But I'm sure he thought a trade would come with a big extension, which is easier if you are already under contract.
Not a Harden fan either and I agree it sounds like he has valid reasons to be pissed.
I kinda hope the Sixers get a bad of used balls (or any Bulls player) back for him.
Yeah I'm curious how much the Clips were included in the back and forth when he opted in. It seems that's the only team he's really interested in playing in and there may have been a couple leaps of faith here (Harden that the Sixers would trade him to the Clips, the Sixers that the Clips would give them anything in return).
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on August 14, 2023, 04:18:33 PM
Yes. He redid his deal last year to create cap space and got the player option.
So while I am not a big Harden fan, I get why he is upset. He could have simply declined his option. But I'm sure he thought a trade would come with a big extension, which is easier if you are already under contract.
I get it but you cannot guarantee a player that a trade, especially with those variables, is a sure thing. That doesn't excuse Morey but Harden has requested 3 trades in 3 years?
Much like the Hausers not wanting to play with Herro or Markus, it seems as though there's a common denominator in this equation.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 14, 2023, 06:38:55 PM
Much like the Hausers not wanting to play with Herro or Markus, it seems as though there's a common denominator in this equation.
correction-"much like the hauser not wanting to play with herro or markus...
and what's the common denominator again?
Quote from: rocket surgeon on August 14, 2023, 08:11:37 PM
correction-"much like the hauser not wanting to play with herro or markus...
and what's the common denominator again?
Were you correcting me or asking a question?
Quote from: wadesworld on August 14, 2023, 09:15:41 PM
Were you correcting me or asking a question?
Neither, if we are being honest with ourselves.
The Athletic has come out with its annual "NBA Tiers" series.
There are 3 players in Tier 1A: Giannis, Steph and Jokic.
There also are 3 in Tier 1B: KD, Embiid and Luka.
Quote from: MU82 on August 18, 2023, 09:04:38 AM
The Athletic has come out with its annual "NBA Tiers" series.
There are 3 players in Tier 1A: Giannis, Steph and Jokic.
There also are 3 in Tier 1B: KD, Embiid and Luka.
I guess they assume Kawhi will never be healthy again.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 18, 2023, 09:27:28 AM
I guess they assume Kawhi will never be healthy again.
He's in Tier 2A with Jimmy, Lebron, Tatum, Booker, AD, Morant, and Dame.
I'd take more than just 5 players over Embiid if I was looking to win a title and/or starting my franchise from scratch.
Quote from: MU82 on August 18, 2023, 09:04:38 AM
The Athletic has come out with its annual "NBA Tiers" series.
There are 3 players in Tier 1A: Giannis, Steph and Jokic.
There also are 3 in Tier 1B: KD, Embiid and Luka.
JFB should be in Tier1B
Quote from: Skatastrophy on August 18, 2023, 10:20:18 AM
He's in Tier 2A with Jimmy, Lebron, Tatum, Booker, AD, Morant, and Dame.
It was interesting to see him dominate Phoenix before his knee gave out again. Peak Kawhi is awfully good but he cannot stay healthy.
It's hard to say a guy is one of the best 6 players in the world when he can't play due to injuries year after year after year.
Quote from: MU82 on August 18, 2023, 01:19:05 PM
It's hard to say a guy is one of the best 6 players in the world when he can't play due to injuries year after year after year.
Yep. Kawhi hasn't played more than 60 games in the regular season since 2016-2017. Other stars that are his age or older like Curry, Dame, CP3, even a bruiser like Draymond or tough physical defender like Jrue, have all surpassed 60 3,4, even 5 times in that stretch. Lebron is significantly older, has way more wear and tear on him, AND load manages...and still passed 60 games 3 times since Kawhi has.
And arguably more than that, Wags, a guy has to be available for the playoffs.
The last two seasons, the Clippers have played in 5 playoff games and 2 play-in games. Kawhi has played in 2 of the 7.
The guy's an incredible player, and one of the great clutch players. But if he doesn't play ...
Quote from: JWags85 on August 18, 2023, 01:26:06 PM
Yep. Kawhi hasn't played more than 60 games in the regular season since 2016-2017. Other stars that are his age or older like Curry, Dame, CP3, even a bruiser like Draymond or tough physical defender like Jrue, have all surpassed 60 3,4, even 5 times in that stretch. Lebron is significantly older, has way more wear and tear on him, AND load manages...and still passed 60 games 3 times since Kawhi has.
I generally agree with everything you've stated but the fact that he has a couple of rings (and 1 with his 2nd best player being Lowry or Siakam) gives him more leeway imo. I think we can all agree that his best is in that top 6?
Jamal Murray probably should be in that 2A.tier?
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 19, 2023, 09:33:41 AM
I generally agree with everything you've stated but the fact that he has a couple of rings (and 1 with his 2nd best player being Lowry or Siakam) gives him more leeway imo. I think we can all agree that his best is in that top 6?
Sure. And LeBron's best from several years ago would make him #1.
But this isn't several years ago for either of them; LeBron is still great but he's got a lot of mileage on the engine, and Kawhi is great but he's rarely healthy these last few years.
I mean, there are some who believe Bill Walton would have been a top-20 all-time NBA player if he had been healthy, or that Gale Sayers would've been the best RB ever if he had been healthy. Damn big "if," though, because they were both hurt a lot. So we'll never know.
https://www.basketballnetwork.net/latest-news/sam-mitchell-claims-anthony-davis-holds-more-value-than-giannis-antetokounmpo
Lol. People need to start checking out AD's shooting percentages. I don't know where the idea that he has the ability to shoot came from. He's never shot above 34% from 3 in a season and is a career 30% three point shooter. He's always been a bad shooter, and he's been a horrible shooter the last three years. 26% from 3, 19% (!) from 3, 26% from 3 the last 3 years.
Don't get me wrong, AD is a great player. But he has to be one of the more overrated players of this generation. In terms of superstars that give your team a shot to win a title, he's behind Harden and Russ and probably on the same level as Embiid as far as being overrated.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 24, 2023, 08:52:05 AM
https://www.basketballnetwork.net/latest-news/sam-mitchell-claims-anthony-davis-holds-more-value-than-giannis-antetokounmpo
Lol. People need to start checking out AD's shooting percentages. I don't know where the idea that he has the ability to shoot came from. He's never shot above 34% from 3 in a season and is a career 30% three point shooter. He's always been a bad shooter, and he's been a horrible shooter the last three years. 26% from 3, 19% (!) from 3, 26% from 3 the last 3 years.
Don't get me wrong, AD is a great player. But he has to be one of the more overrated players of this generation. In terms of superstars that give your team a shot to win a title, he's behind Harden and Russ and probably on the same level as Embiid as far as being overrated.
Just to clarify, are you saying that currently AD gives you less of a chance to win a title than Russ and Harden? Or is this at their peaks?
Quote from: wadesworld on August 24, 2023, 08:52:05 AM
https://www.basketballnetwork.net/latest-news/sam-mitchell-claims-anthony-davis-holds-more-value-than-giannis-antetokounmpo
Lol. People need to start checking out AD's shooting percentages. I don't know where the idea that he has the ability to shoot came from. He's never shot above 34% from 3 in a season and is a career 30% three point shooter. He's always been a bad shooter, and he's been a horrible shooter the last three years. 26% from 3, 19% (!) from 3, 26% from 3 the last 3 years.
Don't get me wrong, AD is a great player. But he has to be one of the more overrated players of this generation. In terms of superstars that give your team a shot to win a title, he's behind Harden and Russ and probably on the same level as Embiid as far as being overrated.
If you discount defense completely then yeah
Quote from: ZaLiN on August 24, 2023, 01:28:53 PM
Just to clarify, are you saying that currently AD gives you less of a chance to win a title than Russ and Harden? Or is this at their peaks?
I meant at their peaks. And sorry, I meant that the only more overrated players in terms of a player who helps your team win a title are Russ and Harden.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 24, 2023, 02:09:36 PM
I meant at their peaks. And sorry, I meant that the only more overrated players in terms of a player who helps your team win a title are Russ and Harden.
Ah ok, while I'm not sure I agree that is far less egregious than I initially interpreted it lol.
There are a bunch of good players in this Canada/France game. USA is going to have their hands full.
S-G-A is no joke. What an incredible trade that was for OKC. The guy really has no weaknesses. I'm trying to think of the guards I would take ahead of him considering his age.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 25, 2023, 08:39:04 AM
There are a bunch of good players in this Canada/France game. USA is going to have their hands full.
Canada sure, SGA is a PROBLEM. He's been unreal today.
But France, not at all with this roster. Bunch of aging guys with decent euro players. US should beat them by 20 easy. Look at what Canada is doing to them. Nobody outside of Gobert would be even in the rotation for the US
Quote from: Skatastrophy on August 18, 2023, 10:20:18 AM
He's in Tier 2A with Jimmy, Lebron, Tatum, Booker, AD, Morant, and Dame.
They/We CLEARLY missed a guy in Tier 2A and he's arguably 1B in S-G-A. The guy is unbelievable. I don't think I take Doncic ahead of him.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 25, 2023, 10:11:33 AM
They/We CLEARLY missed a guy in Tier 2A and he's arguably 1B in S-G-A. The guy is unbelievable. I don't think I take Doncic ahead of him.
I''ll gladly lineup to draft after you
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on August 25, 2023, 11:13:34 AM
I''ll gladly lineup to draft after you
I think he's so much better defensively that I'd probably take him but maybe I'm jumping the gun. He did average 31.4 ppg last year and was quite efficient. He also has pretty good turn stats for someone who has the ball so much.
How good is Edwards? Wadeesque? He does have tier 1 blow by speed. What's his ceiling? He's only 22.
Congrats to Latvia.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 26, 2023, 08:59:35 AM
How good is Edwards? Wadeesque? He does have tier 1 blow by speed. What's his ceiling? He's only 22.
IMO his ceiling has less to do with his physical abilities and more to do with his drive. He's had bouts of not giving a unnatural carnal knowledge.
I'm not always right about college players and their potential in the NBA but I was astonished Brunson fell to the 2nd Rd. Now, I didn't think he was this good but what in the world were NBA GM's thinking? Mark Cuban fked up re-signing him big-time. His footwork and change of speed/direction off the bounce is tremendous. Tyko reminds me a little of Brunson.
TyTy Washington on a 2 way deal for the Bucks isn't the worst thing. They'll need some kind of backup point guard, and we've see Wiggington already. Definitely better than having Drew Timme on a two way.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 28, 2023, 08:53:56 AM
I'm not always right about college players and their potential in the NBA but I was astonished Brunson fell to the 2nd Rd. Now, I didn't think he was this good but what in the world were NBA GM's thinking? Mark Cuban fked up re-signing him big-time. His footwork and change of speed/direction off the bounce is tremendous. Tyko reminds me a little of Brunson.
Brunson - TyKo is a good comparison. I think Brunson is a little more under control. I think on balance we are better off with Tyler being a little more loose. JMHO.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 29, 2023, 05:07:01 PM
Brunson - TyKo is a good comparison. I think Brunson is a little more under control. I think on balance we are better off with Tyler being a little more loose. JMHO.
Yes. Brunson is so fundamentally sound and a better scorer. But if I was Tyko that's the guy I'd be watching a lot of tape of. I do believe Kolek can play at the NBA level but perhaps needs to work a bit on his catch and shoot trifecta and get better defensively.
Saw some discussion about this recently, and was wondering what others think.
The question: How many ppg would prime Michael Jordan score in todays game?
My guess is 40-45 ppg depending on the caliber of teammates. The reasoning: He was averaging 30+ in an era when scoring/pace was significantly lower and largely no one came close to challenging his scoring prominence. His only season at tempos near todays he put up over 37 ppg, and that was still at a slower pace, with hand checking, centers that could camp under the rim, and without an established 3 point focus.
His later "prime seasons" showed he could shoot the 3 effectively.
I know comparing eras is a bit of a fools errand, but I also think many who predominantly watch this era have no idea how dominant MJ was.
Jordan would average a sh!t-ton - your 40-45 estimate sounds reasonable - and he'd still be the best player in the game. I agree he'd hit plenty of 3s.
I do wonder if he'd do what other superstars do now and take some nights off. It's something Jordan refused to do back when he played. Hell, even in 2002-03, when he was 39 and on a bad Wizards team, he played all 82 games.
Quote from: MU82 on August 30, 2023, 07:13:31 PM
Jordan would average a sh!t-ton - your 40-45 estimate sounds reasonable - and he'd still be the best player in the game. I agree he'd hit plenty of 3s.
I do wonder if he'd do what other superstars do now and take some nights off. It's something Jordan refused to do back when he played. Hell, even in 2002-03, when he was 39 and on a bad Wizards team, he played all 82 games.
As crazy is it sounds about the greatest individual brand ever...... MJ was a player and competitor first and a brand second.
Not the case with players these days.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 29, 2023, 09:01:27 PM
Yes. Brunson is so fundamentally sound and a better scorer. But if I was Tyko that's the guy I'd be watching a lot of tape of. I do believe Kolek can play at the NBA level but perhaps needs to work a bit on his catch and shoot trifecta and get better defensively.
Also needs to be able to effortlessly use his non dominant hand
Quote from: MU82 on August 30, 2023, 07:13:31 PM
Jordan would average a sh!t-ton - your 40-45 estimate sounds reasonable - and he'd still be the best player in the game. I agree he'd hit plenty of 3s.
I do wonder if he'd do what other superstars do now and take some nights off. It's something Jordan refused to do back when he played. Hell, even in 2002-03, when he was 39 and on a bad Wizards team, he played all 82 games.
I was reading about the "load management" issue, and the players say it is a directive from the team, and not the stars asking for the night off. Whether or not that is the case, but that is what many of the NBA stars say. They say they want to play 82 games, but the team's bean counters have a magic formula.
Quote from: lawdog77 on August 30, 2023, 08:39:02 PM
I was reading about the "load management" issue, and the players say it is a directive from the team, and not the stars asking for the night off. Whether or not that is the case, but that is what many of the NBA stars say. They say they want to play 82 games, but the team's bean counters have a magic formula.
I had wondered if that was true, and figure that Jordan would largely have no choice but to "load manage." But, maybe that makes him more likely to keep playing and not go play baseball or retire the 1st/2nd time.
Quote from: lawdog77 on August 30, 2023, 08:39:02 PM
I was reading about the "load management" issue, and the players say it is a directive from the team, and not the stars asking for the night off. Whether or not that is the case, but that is what many of the NBA stars say. They say they want to play 82 games, but the team's bean counters have a magic formula.
Not sure it's the "bean counters," but the training staff.
Quote from: forgetful on August 30, 2023, 06:59:02 PM
Saw some discussion about this recently, and was wondering what others think.
The question: How many ppg would prime Michael Jordan score in todays game?
My guess is 40-45 ppg depending on the caliber of teammates. The reasoning: He was averaging 30+ in an era when scoring/pace was significantly lower and largely no one came close to challenging his scoring prominence. His only season at tempos near todays he put up over 37 ppg, and that was still at a slower pace, with hand checking, centers that could camp under the rim, and without an established 3 point focus.
His later "prime seasons" showed he could shoot the 3 effectively.
I know comparing eras is a bit of a fools errand, but I also think many who predominantly watch this era have no idea how dominant MJ was.
Remember he'd also be playing against much better players.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on August 31, 2023, 05:35:56 AM
Not sure it's the "bean counters," but the training staff.
https://smartabase.com/blog/smartabase-for-nba-load-management/ (https://smartabase.com/blog/smartabase-for-nba-load-management/)
Quote from: lawdog77 on August 31, 2023, 06:21:41 AM
https://smartabase.com/blog/smartabase-for-nba-load-management/ (https://smartabase.com/blog/smartabase-for-nba-load-management/)
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but aren't "bean counters" accountants? So when you used that term, I was thinking "business related decision" v health and training decision.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on August 31, 2023, 07:01:38 AM
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but aren't "bean counters" accountants? So when you used that term, I was thinking "business related decision" v health and training decision.
I was think closer to an actuary. More along the lines of putting data into a spreadsheet and determining at what #, does it make sense to rest people. Kind of like moneyball.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 30, 2023, 08:01:58 PM
As crazy is it sounds about the greatest individual brand ever...... MJ was a player and competitor first and a brand second.
Not the case with players these days.
Plenty of today's players are "player and competitor first." Probably most, and certainly the best ones.
Quote from: forgetful on August 30, 2023, 09:19:31 PM
I had wondered if that was true, and figure that Jordan would largely have no choice but to "load manage."
Maybe. But Jordan's the guy who famously had a "love of the game" clause in his contract, and it would have been difficult for management or trainers or beancounters to tell him no if he wanted to play.
However, if he were playing in an era when "load management" is the norm, maybe it would have been the norm for him, too. We'll never know.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on August 31, 2023, 06:15:14 AM
Remember he'd also be playing against much better players.
Absolutely. But one of the best things about Jordan is that he tended to rise to the occasion.
In the playoffs - especially later rounds, and the Finals - he went up against some of the best players in basketball history. He often dominated them and, once he got a few years of experience under his belt, he almost always defeated them.
Quote from: MU82 on August 31, 2023, 09:16:56 AM
Plenty of today's players are "player and competitor first." Probably most, and certainly the best ones.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that point. The load management and willingness to sit for minor injuries makes me feel it is more about career management than competition.
Now, you can make a very sound argument that Jordan's priorities were wrong.
With no hand hand checking and the fitness and strength training today Jordan would have averaged:
43-45 ppg, on 53% shooting, 39% from distance and 12-15 FT's a game. Easily. Jordan had.no weaknesses, would have practiced the 3-Ball, and been very proficient. As Bobby Knight stated numerous times Michael is the greatest player in the history of the sport and "by a considerable margin". Remember, no weaknesses. My guess is 45, 10, and 8.
Quote from: MuggsyB on August 31, 2023, 03:49:19 PM
With no hand hand checking and the fitness and strength training today Jordan would have averaged:
43-45 ppg, on 53% shooting, 39% from distance and 12-15 FT's a game. Easily. Jordan had.no weaknesses, would have practiced the 3-Ball, and been very proficient. As Bobby Knight stated numerous times Michael is the greatest player in the history of the sport and "by a considerable margin". Remember, no weaknesses. My guess is 45, 10, and 8.
Oh come on. Of course MJ is the greatest player to ever play the game, but he isn't averaging 45 ppg. That's 12 more than last year's leading scorer averaged. And if he's guarding the perimeter, he isn't getting 10 rpg either.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 31, 2023, 09:53:52 AM
We'll have to agree to disagree on that point. The load management and willingness to sit for minor injuries makes me feel it is more about career management than competition.
It's part career management, but a larger part is that 82 games is a long damn season and you need to be ready for the playoffs.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on August 31, 2023, 03:54:53 PM
It's part career management, but a larger part is that 82 games is a long damn season and you need to be ready for the playoffs.
I think that also supports my position.
If Jordan managed his work load like players today, LeBron may still be chasing the scoring title. I think you could question Jordan's priority of playing 100% in every game possible even if he was not 100%.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 31, 2023, 04:52:43 PM
I think that also supports my position.
If Jordan managed his work load like players today, LeBron may still be chasing the scoring title. I think you could question Jordan's priority of playing 100% in every game possible even if he was not 100%.
Agreed.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 31, 2023, 04:52:43 PM
I think that also supports my position.
If Jordan managed his work load like players today, LeBron may still be chasing the scoring title. I think you could question Jordan's priority of playing 100% in every game possible even if he was not 100%.
Could question or could not question?
Don't ever forget how Lebron played in the 2011 Finals.
Terrible half of basketball for Team USA. Their half court offense looks awful. No ball movement whatsoever, all iso garbage. They will need to pick it up to beat the better teams and the coaches must draw up better offensive sets. Move the freaking rock.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on August 31, 2023, 03:54:53 PM
It's part career management, but a larger part is that 82 games is a long damn season and you need to be ready for the playoffs.
Jordan excelled in the playoffs despite playing in every regular-season game.
But I don't doubt that it is a sound reason for load management today, and I wouldn't argue that Jordan could have benefited from it, too.
I think one problem in all of these comparison-type discussions is that it's difficult to compare any player to Jordan, period.
Quote from: MU82 on September 01, 2023, 08:45:15 AM
I think one problem in all of these comparison-type discussions is that it's difficult to compare any player to Jordan, period.
Well there is that.
Team USA struggling early vs Lithuania.
Wow just wow.
31-12 at the end of 1Q. Lithuania getting anything they want offensively while team USA is playing mickey-mouse, undisciplined, iso ball. Time to wake-up before it's too late.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 03, 2023, 08:01:57 AM
Wow just wow.
31-12 at the end of 1Q. Lithuania getting anything they want offensively while team USA is playing mickey-mouse, undisciplined, iso ball. Time to wake-up before it's too late.
We don't have our best coach. Spoelstra or Jay Wright please.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on September 03, 2023, 08:15:26 AM
We don't have our best coach. Spoelstra or Jay Wright please.
Ya.....I'm glad you made this point Hutch. What the H are they doing from a coaching standpoint on both ends of the floor? It seems to me it's iso on one end and ball pressure on tbe other. They literally allowed 12 wide open threes and rarely move the rock via the pass offensively.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 03, 2023, 08:35:58 AM
Ya.....I'm glad you made this point Hutch. What the H are they doing from a coaching standpoint on both ends of the floor? It seems to me it's iso on one end and ball pressure on tbe other. They literally allowed 12 wide open threes and rarely move the rock via the pass offensively.
And of course 9 of those 12 open threes were made.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on September 03, 2023, 08:45:18 AM
And of course 9 of those 12 open threes were made.
Nice little run for us to start the 2H. Let's go now. At least they're moving and screening more off the ball
Very good 3Q start so we'll see about today. A win today won't change my opinion we have better options than Kerr for our national coach.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on September 03, 2023, 08:47:24 AM
Very good 3Q start so we'll see about today. A win today won't change my opinion we have better options than Kerr for our national coach.
Agreed Hutch.
Other than Jonas V is there a Lithuanian in the NBA? I know Bradzekis had a cup of coffee.
WTH is up with this line-up Hutch? Smh.
Boy is this frustrating.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 03, 2023, 08:57:11 AM
Other than Jonas V is there a Lithuanian in the NBA? I know Bradzekis had a cup of coffee.
Currently no, but a bunch played recently.
Kuzminskas played for the Knicks. Motiejunas played for a couple of teams up until a year or two ago. Sirvydis played 2-3 years for the Pistons until last year. Jokubaitais was a Thunder pick like 2 years ago they've been stashing for a bit
Quote from: JWags85 on September 03, 2023, 09:40:55 AM
Currently no, but a bunch played recently.
Kuzminskas played for the Knicks. Motiejunas played for a couple of teams up until a year or two ago. Sirvydis played 2-3 years for the Pistons until last year. Jokubaitais was a Thunder pick like 2 years ago they've been stashing for a bit
And yet we finish the 1Q down 31-12 and lose the game. So sad.
This is what happens when we send our B (or C) team.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 03, 2023, 09:42:07 AM
And yet we finish the 1Q down 31-12 and lose the game. So sad.
Missed last quarter today. But it's so true. Our guys are entirely current NBA guys, rising or established stars. Ridiculous to lose to anyone.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 03, 2023, 09:44:31 AM
This is what happens when we send our B (or C) team.
Give me a break. Then Lithuania is about an M team of NBA talent.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on September 03, 2023, 09:47:58 AM
Give me a break. Then Lithuania is about an M team of NBA talent.
Except for Edwards and Brunson, the talent difference between the US team and these other teams is minimal. Especially when many of these other teams have played together for years.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on September 03, 2023, 09:47:58 AM
Give me a break. Then Lithuania is about an M team of NBA talent.
Hutch,
Would this be similar to MU losing to Cardinal Stritch or am I being hyperbolic? I can't see any rational argument of being down 31-12 to begin tbe game.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 03, 2023, 09:57:49 AM
Hutch,
Would this be similar to MU losing to Cardinal Stritch or am I being hyperbolic? I can't see any rational argument of being down 31-12 to begin tbe game.
Probably more MU losing to a 300 type level D1 team IMO. Their players can ball, but it's a considerably lower talent level. But good enough if you look past them you'll get burned.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on September 03, 2023, 10:50:47 AM
Probably more MU losing to a 300 type level D1 team IMO. Their players can ball, but it's a considerably lower talent level. But good enough if you look past them you'll get burned.
Lithuania is ranked #8 in the FIBA rankings, itsnot that big of a talent disparity. When Josh Hart is your starting SG, you're not that talented.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on September 03, 2023, 10:50:47 AM
Probably more MU losing to a 300 type level D1 team IMO. Their players can ball, but it's a considerably lower talent level. But good enough if you look past them you'll get burned.
That sounds more logical. Of course Kerr was all smiles after that dumpster fire performance.
Like MU losing to an A-10 school on a neutral floor.
Quote from: tower912 on September 03, 2023, 11:11:09 AM
Like MU losing to an A-10 school on a neutral floor.
LOL.
It isn't Virginia-UMBC or Purdue-Fairleigh Dickinson. Lithuania is solid and came to play. Good for them. Big picture, yawn.
Still going to the Olympics, can still win this.
Quote from: tower912 on September 03, 2023, 11:49:34 AM
It isn't Virginia-UMBC or Purdue-Fairleigh Dickinson. Lithuania is solid and came to play. Good for them. Big picture, yawn.
Still going to the Olympics, can still win this.
I vehemently disagree. And we got destroyed on the glass and never lead the entire game. The talent discrepancy between the rosters is rather pronounced. You can't allow wide open three after wide open three after wide open three. That's extraordinarily bad coaching.
Or execution of the game plan.
Quote from: tower912 on September 03, 2023, 12:42:11 PM
Or execution of the game plan.
What was the game plan defensively besides pressuring tbe ball? Tower, did you watch the first quarter? it looked like shooting practice.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 03, 2023, 12:18:21 PM
I vehemently disagree. And we got destroyed on the glass and never lead the entire game. The talent discrepancy between the rosters is rather pronounced. You can't allow wide open three after wide open three after wide open three. That's extraordinarily bad coaching.
Yes. Kerr is a terrible coach. He should never be allowed near an NBA team.
Me: "Huh, Muggsy is really going after the Team USA coach and not the players."
*Googles who the coach is*
"Ah. That makes sense"
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on September 03, 2023, 02:36:43 PM
Me: "Huh, Muggsy is really going after the Team USA coach and not the players."
*Googles who the coach is*
"Ah. That makes sense"
Ya....that's a bad take. I've actually praised Kerr as a very good coach many times. Including during the '21 Finals. But the International game is different and no rational and honest person could watch that 1Q and not be critical of the coaching. And there are multiple good coaches on that staff. Lithuania literally got any shot that wanted and no one was near their three point shooters. And they also haven't adjusted to guys clogging the lane in the half-court on the other end
.
Quote from: Jockey on September 03, 2023, 02:21:07 PM
Yes. Kerr is a terrible coach. He should never be allowed near an NBA team.
Another bad take/invented narrative. I never said he was a terrible coach. Clearly you and others here didn't watch the game or refuse to accept reality.
The Warriors have had some of the best defenses in the NBA basically every year Kerr has been coaching them. And their offense is certainly not isolation and does not lack ball and player movement...
Quote from: wadesworld on September 03, 2023, 04:42:12 PM
The Warriors have had some of the best defenses in the NBA basically every year Kerr has been coaching them. And their offense is certainly not isolation and does not lack ball and player movement...
That's true but neither occurred this morning with Team USA.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 03, 2023, 04:54:36 PM
That's true but neither occurred this morning with Team USA.
So either Kerr forgot how to be a good coach or maybe, just maybe, assembling a group of players who have never played together before and giving them limited practice time together and having them play in some exhibition matches where they are more concerned about not getting hurt before their real seasons can result in some dud performances.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 03, 2023, 04:41:50 PM
Another bad take/invented narrative. I never said he was a terrible coach. Clearly you and others here didn't watch the game or refuse to accept reality.
But your take was that because of the 1Q of one game, the coach of a team is not the right coach???
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on September 03, 2023, 08:15:26 AM
We don't have our best coach. Spoelstra or Jay Wright please.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on September 03, 2023, 08:47:24 AM
Very good 3Q start so we'll see about today. A win today won't change my opinion we have better options than Kerr for our national coach.
Wonder if this take will turn out as freezing cold as your last one about the national team's coach.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=62110.msg1362356#msg1362356
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on September 03, 2023, 06:14:38 PM
So either Kerr forgot how to be a good coach or maybe, just maybe, assembling a group of players who have never played together before and giving them limited practice time together and having them play in some exhibition matches where they are more concerned about not getting hurt before their real seasons can result in some dud performances.
Yes, it's a tough task, but this is what Kerr signed up for as our national coach. Coach K was 75-1 doing it.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on September 03, 2023, 07:42:13 PM
Wonder if this take will turn out as freezing cold as your last one about the national team's coach.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=62110.msg1362356#msg1362356
I don't think Popovich validated anything as US coach by taking the team with by far the most talent and the best player who dominated in Tokyo as well, but if you're so sure he did, great. There was already that impressive 7th place finish in the 2019 FIBA World Cup he led as well.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on September 03, 2023, 07:20:26 PM
But your take was that because of the 1Q of one game, the coach of a team is not the right coach???
When you watch a team with exponentially more talent, allow 31 pts in 10 mins of playing time, while simultaneously looking like a rec team on the offensive end, it's okay to render an opinion. It was a s-storm that frankly should never happen. And Kerr and the coaching staff did nothing to stop the deluge. Now the positive is you would think this will wake them up and they will win this tournament easily but as Hutch stated it was like a 300+ ranked team blowing out MU or a top 10 team. The level of talent on Team USA snd perhaps Canada vs everyone else, in this weaker than normal field, isn't remotely close.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on September 04, 2023, 12:35:54 AM
I don't think Popovich validated anything as US coach by taking the team with by far the most talent and the best player who dominated in Tokyo as well, but if you're so sure he did, great. There was already that impressive 7th place finish in the 2019 FIBA World Cup he led as well.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 04, 2023, 08:18:09 AM
When you watch a team with exponentially more talent, allow 31 pts in 10 mins of playing time, while simultaneously looking like a rec team on the offensive end, it's okay to render an opinion. It was a s-storm that frankly should never happen. And Kerr and the coaching staff did nothing to stop the deluge. Now the positive is you would think this will wake them up and they will win this tournament easily but as Hutch stated it was like a 300+ ranked team blowing out MU or a top 10 team. The level of talent on Team USA snd perhaps Canada vs everyone else, in this weaker than normal field, isn't remotely close.
The problem is player selection - not coaching. The US continues to throw out B-level and poorly constructed squads for the FIBA World Cup, while other nations have a more systematic and long-term approach. One would think people would appreciate this considering Shaka's approach at Marquette. The time has long passed that the US can just trot out a random selection of 15 players and think that's good enough.
The idea that Pop and Kerr, despite winning nine NBA titles between them, are bad coaches is really a bad take.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on September 04, 2023, 08:44:54 AM
The problem is player selection - not coaching. The US continues to throw out B-level and poorly constructed squads for the FIBA World Cup, while other nations have a more systematic and long-term approach. One would think people would appreciate this considering Shaka's approach at Marquette. The time has long passed that the US can just trot out a random selection of 15 players and think that's good enough.
The idea that Pop and Kerr, despite winning nine NBA titles between them, are bad coaches is really a bad take.
Neither Muggsy nor I said either are bad coaches. I simply said about Kerr there are better options for our national coach. It's my opinion, feel free to disagree but don't misstate my position.
And same with Popovich. I never said he's a bad coach. My criticism of him was solely confined to what I felt was a lousy job he did coaching the national team. Period. And he was openly ripped by many, including reportedly his own team during the Tokyo Olympics. In just two appearances as our head coach, he managed to lose 3x the games Coach K did in 10 years. And that leaves out Pop's exhibition losses.
I do agree a big problem is player selection, but that's in large part on them as well. Although getting commitments to Team USA isn't easy by any stretch now.
So when you said that Pop was an "absolute disaster as our national coach," you didn't mean to say he is a bad coach?
Regardless, I get your point. I think getting commitments is the biggest problem. I think it goes in waves - when an "emergency" is declared, the best players commit. But after winning the last four Olympic golds, I think complacency can set in, especially if a player already has won a medal.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on September 04, 2023, 09:20:34 AM
So when you said that Pop was an "absolute disaster as our national coach," you didn't mean to say he is a bad coach?
Regardless, I get your point. I think getting commitments is the biggest problem. I think it goes in waves - when an "emergency" is declared, the best players commit. But after winning the last four Olympic golds, I think complacency can set in, especially if a player already has won a medal.
No, he didn't. He explained the difference between coaching the National Team vs his job for the Spurs.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on September 04, 2023, 12:24:46 AM
Yes, it's a tough task, but this is what Kerr signed up for as our national coach. Coach K was 75-1 doing it.
Coach K's FIBA rosters also included the best of the best players and there was more disparity between the US and the rest of the world at the time. There is no one on the current roster even close to the level of Lebron, Curry, Wade, Kobe, peak Carmelo, etc. And K had multiple guys of the caliber on every one of his rosters.
Italy not posing much of a challenge. Bridges is playing lights out today. Amazing how Jay Wright developed his game.
The Italians just lost focus. Product of bad coaching.
Inexcusable.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 05, 2023, 08:24:07 AM
Italy not posing much of a challenge. Bridges is playing lights out today. Amazing how Jay Wright developed his game.
Of course they did not pose much of a challenge. The average Italian man is 5'9". Their last king, Victor Emmanuel, was 5'0". It's inexcusable that they are shorter than Americans. They deserved to lose.
Team USA might want to consider playing some freaking defense??? I assume they'll wear them down but Germany has to be shooting 65%.
On another note that Durant trade might wind up being an all-time great one for the Nets.
Germany up 10 to start the 4Q. Unfreaking real. We better get our heads out of our asses. 94 pts for Germany through 3Q.
I do think the international three point line needs to match the NBA's at this point. The game has changed.
Anyway, USA down 10 going into the fourth... stinks that they won't get gold, but it's the C team so not all that surprising.
Quote from: MUfan12 on September 08, 2023, 09:08:15 AM
I do think the international three point line needs to match the NBA's at this point. The game has changed.
Anyway, USA down 10 going into the fourth... stinks that they won't get gold, but it's the C team so not all that surprising.
Yep. I'm not able to watch today, so I don't mean this as a comment on this game in particualr, but the US frontcourt is straight bad. Especially given the generally versatile bigs in the international game, and Jaren Jackson Jr is borderline useless.
Our defense is the problem. Very frustrating .
Plenty of time. No need to over pressure defensively.
Awful execution there. Smh.
Inexcusable!
Quote from: MUfan12 on September 08, 2023, 09:08:15 AM
I do think the international three point line needs to match the NBA's at this point. The game has changed.
Anyway, USA down 10 going into the fourth... stinks that they won't get gold, but it's the C team so not all that surprising.
Shouldn't a shorter 3 ball help us?? And as far as this being our C tean we have way, way, way more talent than Germany. We got destroyed by F. Wagner and Theis. That cannot happen.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 08, 2023, 09:36:01 AM
Shouldn't a shorter 3 ball help us?? And as far as this being our C tean we have way, way, way more talent than Germany. We got destroyed by F. Wagner and Theis. That cannot happen.
To be fair, Franz Wagner is really good and will be an all star very soon. Schroder cooking the US in key moments is far more inexcusable
Maybe they should worry about China instead of being woke and they'd win more games
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 08, 2023, 09:36:01 AM
Shouldn't a shorter 3 ball help us?? And as far as this being our C tean we have way, way, way more talent than Germany. We got destroyed by F. Wagner and Theis. That cannot happen.
I don't think it does help, because no one in the NBA shoots from a foot inside the three point line. It helped guys like Carmelo on the international stage, but for the most part that shot is highly discouraged.
Getting back to this game... of course it can happen. Happens all the time. That's sports.
Germany had more size and were able to exploit the US switching everything. Schroeder played terrific.
I get top guys not playing in this but it's still disappointing to see the USA lose to a team like Germany.
Why on God's Green Earth did Jaren Jackson play the entire 4Q? He wasn't rebounding the ball or contesting shots. Frankly we shot the ball well on offense even though a lot of it was iso ball. I wasn't impressed at all with the coaching. Why the auto-switch? We also overpressured to a fault. I'm sorry but this was a bad loss with no adjustments whatsoever defensively. Was Wojo consulted or something? It was that bad.
As for the NBA, this is yet another embarrassment for the Bulls: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38293507/from-chicagoooo-why-chicago-bulls-value-bringing-hometown-players (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38293507/from-chicagoooo-why-chicago-bulls-value-bringing-hometown-players)
You can not publicly admit you factor Chicago as a home town into talent acquisition. This article paints the Bulls front office as a group who's talent evaluation process is so shallow and elementary that a player's home town becomes a factor.
Even if you pick players to be PR puppets, you can't admit it publicly. Just say "we picked the best players, who occasionally and coincidentally come from Chicago".
Well done Jerry ::)
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 08, 2023, 10:32:56 PM
As for the NBA, this is yet another embarrassment for the Bulls: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38293507/from-chicagoooo-why-chicago-bulls-value-bringing-hometown-players (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38293507/from-chicagoooo-why-chicago-bulls-value-bringing-hometown-players)
You can not publicly admit you factor Chicago as a home town into talent acquisition. This article paints the Bulls front office as a group who's talent evaluation process is so shallow and elementary that a player's home town becomes a factor.
Even if you pick players to be PR puppets, you can't admit it publicly. Just say "we picked the best players, who occasionally and coincidentally come from Chicago".
Well done Jerry ::)
Good grief. The franchise needs to completely start over.
We need to reevaluate how to choose players and coaches for USA Basketball.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 10, 2023, 05:38:02 AM
We need to reevaluate how to choose players and coaches for USA Basketball.
LOL. Because of this?! If they crap the bed with a full squad in the Olympics I'll be right there with you. But this tournament means nada.
Quote from: MUfan12 on September 10, 2023, 08:46:16 AM
LOL. Because of this?! If they crap the bed with a full squad in the Olympics I'll be right there with you. But this tournament means nada.
If it means nothing why not send the college players? And why have three coaches on the bench with a combined 8 NBA titles? The fact is we have significant probs vs the International game and their coaches schooled us. And it's not an easy fix whatsoever even if better players commit. Especially at the 4/5 positions.
And by the way Serbia with Jokic? That's a problem. Canada with Murray and Wiggins? Problem. Hell, Germany with Theis was a freaking problem. Are there USA bigs that can play at all besides Anthony Davis vs these teams?
What should our line-up be moving forward?
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 10, 2023, 08:56:43 AM
If it means nothing why not send the college players? And why have three coaches on the bench with a combined 8 NBA titles? The fact is we have significant probs vs the International game and their coaches schooled us. And it's not an easy fix whatsoever even if better players commit. Especially at the 4/5 positions.
And by the way Serbia with Jokic? That's a problem. Canada with Murray and Wiggins? Problem. Hell, Germany with Theis was a freaking problem. Are there USA bigs that can play at all besides Anthony Davis vs these teams?
What should our line-up be moving forward?
Do you panic over everything? The US sent a lower level team. If they send a top team, and it loses, then maybe worry. Or maybe realize that it isn't 1992 any longer and the world has made steady progress in catching up.
Imagine getting this fired up about the FIBA championship. Lol...
Wojo has experience coaching the national team.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on September 10, 2023, 09:21:40 AM
Do you panic over everything? The US sent a lower level team. If they send a top team, and it loses, then maybe worry. Or maybe realize that it isn't 1992 any longer and the world has made steady progress in catching up.
Imagine getting this fired up about the FIBA championship. Lol...
They just need to focus with more attack intensity
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on September 10, 2023, 09:21:40 AM
Do you panic over everything? The US sent a lower level team. If they send a top team, and it loses, then maybe worry. Or maybe realize that it isn't 1992 any longer and the world has made steady progress in catching up.
Imagine getting this fired up about the FIBA championship. Lol...
I'm fine, who says I'm panicked?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 10, 2023, 09:53:37 AM
They just need to focus with more attack intensity
This wasn't a focus/intensity issue.
Quote from: tower912 on September 10, 2023, 09:26:37 AM
Wojo has experience coaching the national team.
We have probs Tower, I'm looking for viable solutions.
The US has one 7 of the last 8 Olympic golds, including the last 4. There are no major problems winning at the international level.
The reason you take pros is to build depth in the player pool and get them experience in the FIBA realm.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 10, 2023, 05:38:02 AM
We need to reevaluate how to choose players and coaches for USA Basketball.
More players from Chicago?
Quote from: MUfan12 on September 10, 2023, 10:09:44 AM
The US has one 7 of the last 8 Olympic golds, including the last 4. There are no major problems winning at the international level.
The reason you take pros is to build depth in the player pool and get them experience in the FIBA realm.
With all due respect I don't think it's that simple. For example say Anthony Davis doesn't want to play? Who goes to the Olympics?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 10, 2023, 10:12:46 AM
More players from Chicago?
What can be done about this debacle of an organization? Get rid of everyone immediately? :)
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 10, 2023, 10:20:07 AM
What can be done about this debacle of an organization? Get rid of everyone immediately? :)
It starts at the top, right?
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 10, 2023, 09:57:08 AM
We have probs Tower, I'm looking for viable solutions.
We?
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 10, 2023, 08:56:43 AM
If it means nothing why not send the college players? And why have three coaches on the bench with a combined 8 NBA titles?
Because you send the best guys who are willing to do it? Durant and JFB would rather go to the US Open, but Kerr, et al are happy to coach the team. To each their own - I wouldn't risk injury in FIBA if I were a star either. That's the sole reason that the guys who are there are the guys who are there.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 10, 2023, 08:56:43 AM
And by the way Serbia with Jokic? That's a problem. Canada with Murray and Wiggins? Problem. Hell, Germany with Theis was a freaking problem. Are there USA bigs that can play at all besides Anthony Davis vs these teams?
Sure - Jokic is a 2x MVP. The NBA hasn't figured out how to deal with him, so I'm not sure that a hastily thrown together team of US nationals will figure it out either. That's just what happens when the best player in the world doesn't happen to be American?
Precisely. All a coach can do is to put together the best team out of those willing to play. It isn't the Ryder Cup. This team was the equivalent of Harry Higgs, Joel Dahmen, Kevin Kisner etc., with Keegan Bradley as the anchor. Talented players all. Way better than me. But not the A-team.
Quote from: MUBurrow on September 10, 2023, 11:44:51 AM
Because you send the best guys who are willing to do it? Durant and JFB would rather go to the US Open, but Kerr, et al are happy to coach the team. To each their own - I wouldn't risk injury in FIBA if I were a star either. That's the sole reason that the guys who are there are the guys who are there.
Not to go conspiracy theory on this...but I'm going to go conspiracy theory on this. It is also much harder to pass the Olympic drug tests than the NBA drug tests.
I just looked at the US roster for the first time. Nothing surprising about the result.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 10, 2023, 10:17:39 AM
With all due respect I don't think it's that simple. For example say Anthony Davis doesn't want to play? Who goes to the Olympics?
Off the top of my head, the US starters could be:
Curry
Dame
JFB
Tatum
Embiid
Its in Paris, so that might be a reason to go.
Quote from: tower912 on September 10, 2023, 09:26:37 AM
Wojo has experience coaching the national team.
Knowing well your posting history during Wojo's tenure, this probably isn't sarcasm.
It is a fact. And sarcasm.
So that the easily triggered can amuse me.
Quote from: tower912 on September 10, 2023, 02:29:36 PM
It is a fact. And sarcasm.
I am aware there's truth in the statement at face value.
Oops
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on September 10, 2023, 02:44:22 PM
Pretty shocked by the Bengals/Browns game
Even more shocking that they are NBA teams.
Quote from: tower912 on September 10, 2023, 11:12:01 AM
We?
What? You're not embarrassed to be an American because of a result in a sports tournament that means next-to-nothing?
NBA just passed a new rule aimed at limiting load management for star players.
All this will do is test the imagination of teams as they try to figure out which "injury" the star they want to rest has.
Years ago, teams used to stash players on the injured list with "back pain" or "plantar fasciitis," and now they'll do it with their stars.
I still remember Bill Wennington supposedly being out with plantar fasciitis, and when a reporter asked him which foot it was, he said something like, "I don't know. Ask Chip." (reference to Bulls trainer Chip Schaefer)
Quote from: MU82 on September 14, 2023, 09:26:36 AM
NBA just passed a new rule aimed at limiting load management for star players.
All this will do is test the imagination of teams as they try to figure out which "injury" the star they want to rest has.
Years ago, teams used to stash players on the injured list with "back pain" or "plantar fasciitis," and now they'll do it with their stars.
I still remember Bill Wennington supposedly being out with plantar fasciitis, and when a reporter asked him which foot it was, he said something like, "I don't know. Ask Chip." (reference to Bulls trainer Chip Schaefer)
LOL. I don't know if there is a practical way to police it. Play for Pay? The player's association would fight that to the death.
MILWAUKEE WOJ BOMB
I mean, I love Jrue so that sucks. But I think Giannis sent his message and it was received.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on September 27, 2023, 01:21:56 PM
I mean, I love Jrue so that sucks. But I think Giannis sent his message and it was received.
Bucks sending a message, too.
Let's go!!!!
Anyone more enough of an NBA-knower than me who can say where this puts the Bucks as far as expectations? Championship favorites? East Favorites? Just kinda in the amalgamated category of "contender?"
Quote from: jficke13 on September 27, 2023, 01:35:10 PM
Anyone more enough of an NBA-knower than me who can say where this puts the Bucks as far as expectations? Championship favorites? East Favorites? Just kinda in the amalgamated category of "contender?"
Contender
Guess they're all in.
Good move by Coach and GM, Giannis. Holiday got scorched by #22 in da Playoffs, adios. Guess Hield won't be comin' to da Bucks.
Bucks in 6, aina?
Holy crap!! Absolutely brilliant move from the Bucks imo.
.
Wow, that's quite a trade.
If Lillard is healthy, and if he knows that the Bucks are Giannis' team, this was a tremendous move by the Bucks.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 27, 2023, 01:42:48 PM
Good move by Coach and GM, Giannis. Holiday got scorched by #22 in da Playoffs, adios. Guess Hield won't be comin' to da Bucks.
Bucks in 6, aina?
Better than coach and GM, Rodgers, that's for sure
Who fills the open roster spot?
Quote from: MU82 on September 27, 2023, 01:48:06 PM
Wow, that's quite a trade.
If Lillard is healthy, and if he knows that the Bucks are Giannis' team, this was a tremendous move by the Bucks.
I love Holiday but I think you have to pull the trigger on this trade. Lillard is a bona fide scorer and has proven he can do it during crunch time. He's never played with anyone like Giannis obviously but he's a solid playmaker as well. He also has unlimited range with the ability to drain deep buckets both off the bounce and on catch and shoots. He will make it harder to double/triple Antetokounmpo.
Now, the Bucks still need a back-up PG and their defense is still a bit of a question mark. But man....this team should be crazy explosive and fun to watch.
Crybaby Jimmy Butler is complaining the Bucks tampered because certainly Pat Riley and the Heat wouldn't have.
Win a ring, chump
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 27, 2023, 02:02:05 PM
Crybaby Jimmy Butler is complaining the Bucks tampered because certainly Pat Riley and the Heat wouldn't have.
Win a ring, chump
Tough guy
I LOVE me some Jrue Holiday but wow what a trade. This has to be the best duo in Bucks history right? Only other one that I can think of as close is Kareem and the Big 0.
Basketball wise this was a no brainer. But damnit I loved Jrue.
I think this certainly makes the Bucks at east co-favorites with the Nuggets. You have 2 of the top 10 players in the League, and if Middleton is healthy you have another top 25-30 guy.
Perimeter defense will be the question. This probably sets up a good chance for Jae to get a lot of minutes. Not sure who is guarding guys like Jimmy and Tatum on this roster.
Obviously thrilled to have Dame, but not having to suffer through watching another postseason of Allen choking is a nice bonus too.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 27, 2023, 02:19:43 PM
Tough guy
Yes, it is tough for Jimmy that he didn't get Donovan Mitchell or Damian Lillard and they ended up in Cleveland and Milwaukee.
Given how badly Jimmy hates Milwaukee and disrespects Marquette, I suppose this will only increase his dislike of both.
Maybe he can win a ring with the guy the Hausers wouldn't play with
Quote from: Its DJOver on September 27, 2023, 01:51:50 PM
Who fills the open roster spot?
Is it Alex that we haven't signed this season?
Jrue did great things for the Bucks, but think this is a great move. Hopefully Dame can keep the offense from sputtering out in the playoffs.
A little Marquette on Marquette violence...
https://x.com/KingMe_DJ1/status/1707102295907869159?s=20
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 27, 2023, 02:42:38 PM
A little Marquette on Marquette violence...
https://x.com/KingMe_DJ1/status/1707102295907869159?s=20
Hell yeah, DJO
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 27, 2023, 02:42:38 PM
A little Marquette on Marquette violence...
https://x.com/KingMe_DJ1/status/1707102295907869159?s=20
Looks like DJO was reiterating Jimmy's request for help, calling out Spo+Riley. Not calling out Jimmy.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on September 27, 2023, 03:02:53 PM
Looks like DJO was reiterating Jimmy's request for help, calling out Spo+Riley. Not calling out Jimmy.
Jimmy would make a great Middleton to someone's Giannis. Heat need a Giannis
Because they are a dime a dozen.
Quote from: tower912 on September 27, 2023, 03:10:15 PM
Because they are a dime a dozen.
And that's why some are bridesmaids
It will be interesting to see how the Bulls respond to the Bucks move. I'd guess they will extend Ball's contract 5 more years.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 27, 2023, 03:30:44 PM
It will be interesting to see how the Bulls respond to the Bucks move. I'd guess they will extend Ball's contract 5 more years.
trade for Dwight Howard and play him and Drummond as twin towers?
Quote from: Jockey on September 27, 2023, 03:36:59 PM
trade for Dwight Howard and play him and Drummond as twin towers?
;D
Bring home Frank Kaminski!
Joey is tanned, rested, and ready.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 27, 2023, 02:25:32 PM
Yes, it is tough for Jimmy that he didn't get Donovan Mitchell or Damian Lillard and they ended up in Cleveland and Milwaukee.
Given how badly Jimmy hates Milwaukee and disrespects Marquette, I suppose this will only increase his dislike of both.
Maybe he can win a ring with the guy the Hausers wouldn't play with
You and bias should get a room.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 27, 2023, 04:14:33 PM
You and bias should get a room.
Let him cook. It's gotta be nice to be a Bucks fan today after a disappointing past couple of years
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 27, 2023, 04:14:33 PM
You and bias should get a room.
For stating facts? Where's the lie? He don't like Milwaukee and he don't like Marquette right now.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on September 27, 2023, 04:21:50 PM
Let him cook. It's gotta be nice to be a Bucks fan today after a disappointing past couple of years
I saw an NBA title from the Milwaukee Bucks. I'm good for life. Anything beyond that would be gravy
Quote from: Jockey on September 27, 2023, 03:36:59 PM
trade for Dwight Howard and play him and Drummond as twin towers?
Actually hilarious.
I figured they would throw the kitchen sink to get Harden. Seems like the kind of moronic panic move this Bulls franchise would love
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 27, 2023, 02:02:05 PM
Crybaby Jimmy Butler is complaining the Bucks tampered because certainly Pat Riley and the Heat wouldn't have.
Win a ring, chump
This is ridiculous and a terrible take. Especially coming from someone in the Heat organization.
I'm not sure how you tamper in a trade like this.
Herro retweeting Jimmy's reaction and saying, "What he said" is hilarious. Guy would've been out of Miami if Dame was in.
Heat players claiming there's tampering because a player demanded he be traded to the Heat is ironic...
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 27, 2023, 04:52:52 PM
This is ridiculous and a terrible take. Especially coming from someone in the Heat organization.
I have to question the value of his education. Could be why he hates Marquette so much
Quote from: wadesworld on September 27, 2023, 05:02:21 PM
Herro retweeting Jimmy's reaction and saying, "What he said" is hilarious. Guy would've been out of Miami if Dame was in.
Heat players claiming there's tampering because a player demanded he be traded to the Heat is ironic...
Not just at you, but...
You guys saw the video of Jimmy saying this? It's obvi a joke.
https://twitter.com/bradyhawk305/status/1707104038850789873?s=46
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 27, 2023, 05:14:02 PM
I have to question the value of his education. Could be why he hates Marquette so much
After spendinig years on Scoop, I agree with you and Jimmy about Marquette.
Quote from: JWags85 on September 27, 2023, 04:32:49 PM
Actually hilarious.
I figured they would throw the kitchen sink to get Harden. Seems like the kind of moronic panic move this Bulls franchise would love
don't forget derrick may have a little left in the tank
If Middleton is healthy that's a pretty damn good #3 option. The 2-man game with Giannis and Dame has the potential to be scary good. We're talking buckets in heavy, heavy, numbers. Meanwhile Lopez and Portis can also stretch the floor. I also expect Antetokounmpo to be highly motivated. I assume they'll pick up another piece as well.
helluva trade!!
stephen a. says dame would've preferred miami?? now i know what the "a" in stephen a stands for
Quote from: rocket surgeon on September 27, 2023, 07:14:12 PM
helluva trade!!
stephen a. says dame would've preferred miami?? now i know what the "a" in stephen a stands for
This is an idiotic comment by Smith. And frankly inexcusable.
Dame literally stated that, as did his agent, multiple times.
https://news.yahoo.com/three-months-listing-heat-preferred-185705586.html
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/jul/02/damian-lillard-trade-request-miami-heat-portland-trail-blazers
https://theathletic.com/4657894/2023/07/01/damian-lillard-heat-rumors-free-agency/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEls2M6szyk
So, pretty obvious that Lillard wanted to play in Miami.
That 'A' stands for 'astute', or 'aware', or even 'awake' in this instance.
Quote from: wadesworld on September 27, 2023, 08:12:50 PM
Dame literally stated that, as did his agent, multiple times.
That's irrelevant.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 27, 2023, 08:26:12 PM
That's irrelevant.
Dame and his agent both saying he preferred to be traded to Miami is irrelevant to whether Stephen A is an idiot because he said Dame preferred to be traded to Miami? What?
Welcome to Muggsy logic.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 27, 2023, 08:26:12 PM
That's irrelevant.
The Bucks drafted Oliver Purnell in the 6th round of the 1975 draft
Quote from: tower912 on September 27, 2023, 08:41:35 PM
Welcome to Muggsy logic.
Everyone knew he wanted to go to Miami. Who gives a S? That's like saying I'd rather marry Margot Robbie.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 27, 2023, 08:45:34 PM
Everyone knew he wanted to go to Miami. Who gives a S? That's like saying I'd rather marry Margot Robbie.
No it's not. Cause you'd never have a chance at Margot Robbie whereas Dame is an in demand superstar with only 29 possible destinations.
And how is it "inexcusable" to report a fact that is verified by multiple quotes from people associated with him? It's not some slight to the Bucks
Quote from: JWags85 on September 27, 2023, 08:54:31 PM
No it's not. Cause you'd never have a chance at Margot Robbie whereas Dame is an in demand superstar with only 29 possible destinations.
And how is it "inexcusable" to report a fact that is verified by multiple quotes from people associated with him? It's not some slight to the Bucks
It's inexcusable after the fact. Ever person who follows NBA basketball knew this so his "point" is completely irrelevant and means nothing.
I think it is a bit of a slight actually.
Who else can the Bucks snag to fill out their roster? Cameron Payne?
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 27, 2023, 09:08:08 PM
I think it is a bit of a slight actually.
It probably is. And?
Quote from: rocket surgeon on September 27, 2023, 07:14:12 PM
helluva trade!!
stephen a. says dame would've preferred miami?? now i know what the "a" in stephen a stands for
A in this case stands for accurate. Given that you prefer to spend your winters in AZ, you can't blame Dame for hoping for a Miami winter instead of a Milwaukee one.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 27, 2023, 09:08:08 PM
I think it is a bit of a slight actually.
You do realize that the city of Milwaukee has been basically running on spite since 1846, right?
Quote from: Hards Alumni on September 28, 2023, 07:04:34 AM
You do realize that the city of Milwaukee has been basically running on spite since 1846, right?
All Midwest cities run on spite. It's just who you're spiteful at that differs.
The only exception is the Twin Cities. They believe they're the Paris of the Midwest and god bless them for that
Quote from: Hards Alumni on September 28, 2023, 07:04:34 AM
You do realize that the city of Milwaukee has been basically running on spite since 1846, right?
I don't mind spite. :)
Reading the Athletic story on this, it looks like Portland only really wanted Jimmy or Bam and a bunch of draft picks - and Miami was unwilling to give up either. (Not giving up Bam for Dame seems odd to me, but who knows.)
Anyway, Giannis was recruiting Dame. He knew he was coming to Milwaukee and approved ahead of time.
Now the question is if Giannis will sign the extension.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on September 28, 2023, 08:48:57 AM
Reading the Athletic story on this, it looks like Portland only really wanted Jimmy or Bam and a bunch of draft picks - and Miami was unwilling to give up either. (Not giving up Bam for Dame seems odd to me, but who knows.)
Anyway, Giannis was recruiting Dame. He knew he was coming to Milwaukee and approved ahead of time.
Now the question is if Giannis will sign the extension.
Tyler Herro stans unite
Where will Holiday wind up?
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 28, 2023, 08:57:24 AM
Where will Holiday wind up?
Ironically, I think it might be Miami.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 28, 2023, 08:57:24 AM
Where will Holiday wind up?
Good question. Philly or Toronto is my guess
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 28, 2023, 08:57:24 AM
Where will Holiday wind up?
If he wants to win another championship, Charlotte.
Obviously.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on September 28, 2023, 09:01:31 AM
Ironically, I think it might be Miami.
Maybe, but got the sense Portland isn't too interested in what Miami has to offer.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on September 28, 2023, 08:48:57 AM
Reading the Athletic story on this, it looks like Portland only really wanted Jimmy or Bam and a bunch of draft picks - and Miami was unwilling to give up either. (Not giving up Bam for Dame seems odd to me, but who knows.)
Anyway, Giannis was recruiting Dame. He knew he was coming to Milwaukee and approved ahead of time.
Now the question is if Giannis will sign the extension.
My favorite tin foil hat theories are Gianni's' press tour of potentially leaving Milwaukee was a way to increase the value of Bucks future first round picks. Also, Dame saying only Miami was a way to reduce his price for the Bucks by limiting bidders.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on September 28, 2023, 08:48:57 AM
Reading the Athletic story on this, it looks like Portland only really wanted Jimmy or Bam and a bunch of draft picks - and Miami was unwilling to give up either. (Not giving up Bam for Dame seems odd to me, but who knows.)
Anyway, Giannis was recruiting Dame. He knew he was coming to Milwaukee and approved ahead of time.
Now the question is if Giannis will sign the extension.
What else would #34 want from ownership? Maybe jettison his brother to add a contributing player to the roster, hey?
trade hiz azz. never been any good, and never will be.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 28, 2023, 09:10:55 AM
What else would #34 want from ownership? Maybe jettison his brother to add a contributing player to the roster, hey?
Who is a better GM? Giannis or Rodgers?
My guess is Boston, NY, and Philly will do everything they can to get Jrue.
Not a fan of the tail waggin' da dog. But, then again, privileged athletes, run the professional sports industry.
Jury is still out on #34 pending whether his pick of coach is a bust. As for #12, all he could do as a GM is whine. Probably got McCarthy fired though, hey?
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 28, 2023, 09:20:54 AM
My guess is Boston, NY, and Philly will do everything they can to get Jrue.
I think Miami is in that group too.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 28, 2023, 09:10:55 AM
What else would #34 want from ownership? Maybe jettison his brother to add a contributing player to the roster, hey?
The back of an NBA bench is filled with replacement level junk. If it keeps him happy, might as well be his brother.
Cam Payne would not be a bad option because there is a roster spot open.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 28, 2023, 09:27:03 AM
Not a fan of the tail waggin' da dog. But, then again, privileged athletes, run the professional sports industry.
Jury is still out on #34 pending whether his pick of coach is a bust. As for #12, all he could do as a GM is whine. Probably got McCarthy fired though, hey?
If I read between the lines, I'd say you think players should listen to ownership and coaches and just play the game. Interesting
That's what they are getting paid to do, aina?
Quote from: cheebs09 on September 28, 2023, 09:28:11 AM
I think Miami is in that group too.
I'm sure they will too but if Portland didn't want Herro before why would they want him now? I think the Knicks have a ton of draft picks. Does Phoenix have anything to offer? I think Miami is in trouble. They caught some lightning in a bottle but I think it's basically over for them. Holiday on Boston is scary on paper.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on September 28, 2023, 09:29:17 AM
The back of an NBA bench is filled with replacement level junk. If it keeps him happy, might as well be his brother.
Cam Payne would not be a bad option because there is a roster spot open.
I would get Payne. They need a back-op PG or a combo G.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 28, 2023, 09:34:53 AM
That's what they are getting paid to do, aina?
So just the professional athlete has that responsibility? A college athlete wouldn't because before now, they weren't getting paid? That's fascinating.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 28, 2023, 09:27:03 AM
Not a fan of the tail waggin' da dog. But, then again, privileged athletes, run the professional sports industry.
Jury is still out on #34 pending whether his pick of coach is a bust. As for #12, all he could do as a GM is whine. Probably got McCarthy fired though, hey?
High paid athletes have been running professional sports for a long time. And since they are the most important part of professional sports, considering how much they are paid, that is absolute fine and to be expected.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 28, 2023, 09:36:12 AM
I'm sure they will too but if Portland didn't want Herro before why would they want him now? I think the Knicks have a ton of draft picks. Does Phoenix have anything to offer? I think Miami is in trouble. They caught some lightning in a bottle but I think it's basically over for them. Holiday on Boston is scary on paper.
Agree with the bold - Miami was never really out of trouble. They were 25th in ORtg last year, and 21st in NetRtg. They made it to the finals because JFB went supernova and Spo outcoached Bud, Thibs, and Mazzulla.
Also agree with Holiday in Boston - he would completely cover for the Smart trade.
Can you walk into your bosses office and demand personnel and procedural changes? Of course not, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 28, 2023, 09:51:13 AM
Can you walk into your bosses office and demand personnel and procedural changes? Of course not, hey?
So, can college athletes do it? What is your stance on them if they say, write a letter demanding change from the coach?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 28, 2023, 09:51:13 AM
Can you walk into your bosses office and demand personnel and procedural changes? Of course not, hey?
If I'm the star engineer that is responsible for a ton of success of the company and is the face of the brand, I'm guessing I'd have some pull if I had a competing job offer.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 28, 2023, 09:51:13 AM
Can you walk into your bosses office and demand personnel and procedural changes? Of course not, hey?
Right. Because my boss is more important to the organization than I am.
BTW, you really think the athletic side of a professional sports team is anything like a normal employer? That they have org charts and everything? Because that's just silly.
Payne or Nunn in Milwaukee would be nice with the last roster spot.
Hoping Jrue ends up in Toronto or NY. Don't want to see him on the Heat, Sixers, or C's.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 28, 2023, 09:20:54 AM
My guess is Boston, NY, and Philly will do everything they can to get Jrue.
Add Miami and the Clippers.
Also, I don't think it would happen, but I wouldn't rule out the Warriors. They'd have to send Paul, and something else. Not sure they'd be willing to do that switch, and not sure what else they have to send though.
The coach lost his team long before that incident.
To answer your question directly, I'd help them pack their bags and drive to the airport. But, this is an apple to oranges comparison, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 28, 2023, 10:01:17 AM
The coach lost his team long before that incident.
To answer your question directly, I'd help them pack their bags and drive to the airport.
And lose a lot of games in the process.
Quote from: cheebs09 on September 28, 2023, 09:55:13 AM
If I'm the star engineer that is responsible for a ton of success of the company and is the face of the brand, I'm guessing I'd have some pull if I had a competing job offer.
While comparing professional sports to normal business is silly, even for Scoop standards, but even closer comparison is advertising/marketing agencies.
I worked for an ad agency that had a major Midwestern CPG company, household name, in its portfolio and had been the agency of record for nearly 70 years. A senior director was the lead account man on the company's account. The director has some conflict with upper management and was ready to leave. The CPG made it known they would leave too. The agency still played hard ball and the director left to start his own agency. And the CPG left the agency of 70 years to follow him.
Similarly, my friend's agency had a senior creative that got their agency to move heavy and earth lest they leave and potentially lose a few major clients that loved that creative's work. Senior management was completely beholden to good creatives.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 28, 2023, 09:51:13 AM
Can you walk into your bosses office and demand personnel and procedural changes? Of course not, hey?
That depends on your value, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 28, 2023, 09:51:13 AM
Can you walk into your bosses office and demand personnel and procedural changes? Of course not, hey?
Talented money-makers in numerous professions have the leverage to "strongly suggest" things to management.
Hey.
This has been going on for decades. Magic, Gretzky and Wade, among others, were pretty good at being part-time "GMs" during their careers.
Smart businesspeople - and businesspeople is what superstar athletes are - use their leverage whenever they can.
If Giannis had a lot to do with bringing Lillard to Milwaukee, then it's a good thing management listened to him.
One other point about Lillard and the Bucks, while it's true it was out of nowhere for this news/trade cycle, anyone who pays attention to NBA rumors knows the Giannis/Lillard love affair runs back years. If Giannis left MKE before his huge deal, Portland was a very real possibility because of Lillard. Giannis chose Lillard as his first pick in the ASG draft in an eyebrow raise/"tap the side of your nose" sort of reaction to NBA media people. The desire to play with/admiration is well known.
Also, from a marketing perspective, I can't think of a more fun personality/persona/player type to add play Robin to Giannis' Batman. If Dame gets the Greek Freak on one of his hip hop tracks, the internet might explode
Quote from: JWags85 on September 28, 2023, 11:46:49 AM
One other point about Lillard and the Bucks, while it's true it was out of nowhere for this news/trade cycle, anyone who pays attention to NBA rumors knows the Giannis/Lillard love affair runs back years. If Giannis left MKE before his huge deal, Portland was a very real possibility because of Lillard. Giannis chose Lillard as his first pick in the ASG draft in an eyebrow raise/"tap the side of your nose" sort of reaction to NBA media people. The desire to play with/admiration is well known.
Also, from a marketing perspective, I can't think of a more fun personality/persona/player type to add play Robin to Giannis' Batman. If Dame gets the Greek Freak on one of his hip hop tracks, the internet might explode
The deal makes even more sense for the Bucks because Holiday would have either re-signed or not with them after this year. Lillard is locked up for 3 years. If Middleton is anywhere near his form from two years ago, as a #3, look out. He will have so much freedom in this offense as will Lopez. Lillard also alleviates a lot of pressure on Giannis to score from the perimeter and initiate the offense. This should mean fewer turns and more room to operate inside. Lillard isn't Steph Curry but the man has shown be a bucket machine JWags. When you have 35 foot range, the ability to stop and pop, and blow by your defenders, it doesn't suck. Especially if you're playing with Giannis.
I'm hoping for Jrue to end up with either of the LA teams. Get him out of the East, and being able to play back home would be cool for him,.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 28, 2023, 09:51:13 AM
Can you walk into your bosses office and demand personnel and procedural changes? Of course not, hey?
Actually you can. They just might tell you to not let the door hit your ass on the way out.
I know people that have done this, and it was granted, because they are important enough to the organization. Heck, I basically have done this before and it was granted. Others made demands and the answer was no, but feel free to start looking for a new job.
Quote from: forgetful on September 28, 2023, 12:28:18 PM
Actually you can. They just might tell you to not let the door hit your ass on the way out.
I know people that have done this, and it was granted, because they are important enough to the organization. Heck, I basically have done this before and it was granted. Others made demands and the answer was no, but feel free to start looking for a new job.
Well, things like that never happened in the good old days when Al McGuire was a coach and we had law and order
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 28, 2023, 12:33:11 PM
Well, things like that never happened in the good old days when Al McGuire was a coach and we had law and order
A lot went bad after the midrange game died.
Milwaukee is now the epicenter of prime-time hoops. No other city can boast a pro and college team with such promise. It's not quite the dominant level of 1971-74 but we're still talking about something rare and potentially historic.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 28, 2023, 07:19:24 PM
Milwaukee is now the epicenter of prime-time hoops. No other city can boast a pro and college team with such promise. It's not quite the dominant level of 1971-74 but we're still talking about something rare and potentially historic.
Slight edge over Chicago. ;D
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 28, 2023, 07:39:26 PM
Slight edge over Chicago. ;D
It is quite sad and embarrassing that our beloved home city's sports teams are a dumpster fire of biblical proportions. Maybe the Blackhawks find their way but it's depressing.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 28, 2023, 07:47:41 PM
It is quite sad and embarrassing that our beloved home city's sports teams are a dumpster fire of biblical proportions. Maybe the Blackhawks find their way but it's depressing.
Right? Maybe the Ramblers will rise again.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 28, 2023, 08:08:37 PM
Right? Maybe the Ramblers will rise again.
Sister Jean turned 104 last month. :)
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 28, 2023, 08:22:16 PM
Sister Jean turned 104 last month. :)
Chicago sports highlight of the year! (Seriously)
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 28, 2023, 08:32:02 PM
Chicago sports highlight of the year! (Seriously)
The "good" news is the Bears probably have the easiest schedule in the league. The NFC North is awful. But will we win 4 games? :(
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 28, 2023, 08:39:12 PM
The "good" news is the Bears probably have the easiest schedule in the league. The NFC North is awful. But will we win 4 games? :(
Predicted 6. Now I'd say 3. All under a new coach.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 28, 2023, 08:44:23 PM
Predicted 6. Now I'd say 3. All under a new coach.
Have you looked at our schedule? I've never seen a worse schedule in my life. We could win 6? They literally play no one except maybe the Lions?
The Bears? Winning 6 games?
Quote from: wadesworld on September 28, 2023, 08:57:59 PM
The Bears? Winning 6 games?
Probably unlikely but I don't think they play more than 1 playoff team.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 28, 2023, 08:50:20 PM
Have you looked at our schedule? I've never seen a worse schedule in my life. We could win 6? They literally play no one except maybe the Lions?
The schedule is as easy as I've ever seen too. 6 should have been very doable but I have zero faith anymore. 😔
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 28, 2023, 09:03:38 PM
The schedule is as easy as I've ever seen too. 6 should have been very doable but I have zero faith anymore. 😔
It's almost as if the schedule was designed for them to win a few games. It's absolutely pathetic.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 28, 2023, 08:08:37 PM
Right? Maybe the Ramblers will rise again.
That would be thrilling for the tens of Loyola fans.
Quote from: MU82 on September 28, 2023, 09:10:33 PM
That would be thrilling for the tens of Loyola fans.
I may have to start a 6'0 and under league for the city to get back on track.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 28, 2023, 09:12:20 PM
I may have to start a 6'0 and under league for the city to get back on track.
Middle school basketball already exists.
On this NBA topic, Bulls go 35-47.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on September 28, 2023, 09:22:03 PM
Middle school basketball already exists.
Stop attacking smaller citizens.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 28, 2023, 09:39:32 PM
32-50 Is my guess.
That's fair, probably won't be as lucky on the injury front as last year.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 28, 2023, 09:51:13 AM
Can you walk into your bosses office and demand personnel and procedural changes? Of course not, hey?
After my employer had everyone return to the office and declared that they would not be approving remote work for any employees, Mrs. TAMU and I decided we wanted to move back to Milwaukee. I told my boss that I loved my job and would love to continue on remotely from Milwaukee. She said no. I told her that was fine and that I would begin job searching immediately.
Over two years later I'm still working for the same employer, VPNing in from a lounge chair next to my pool in Glendale.
Sometimes you can go into your boss' office and demand procedural changes.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on September 29, 2023, 12:15:02 AM
After my employer had everyone return to the office and declared that they would not be approving remote work for any employees, Mrs. TAMU and I decided we wanted to move back to Milwaukee. I told my boss that I loved my job and would love to continue on remotely from Milwaukee. She said no. I told her that was fine and that I would begin job searching immediately.
Over two years later I'm still working for the same employer, VPNing in from a lounge chair next to my pool in Glendale.
Sometimes you can go into your boss' office and demand procedural changes.
Nicely done, TAMU, and congrats on working on your terms. My son-in-law has a fairly similar story, and is working for his Seattle company while living in Charlotte, which we love because we get to see our grandkids several times a week.
In Doc's defense - seriously - he comes from an era when the boss ruled like a dictator and what he said goes.
Glad to see that these days many employers realize that happy employees who feel they have some say in the way things are done (even if only a tiny say in most cases) are productive employees.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on September 29, 2023, 12:15:02 AM
After my employer had everyone return to the office and declared that they would not be approving remote work for any employees, Mrs. TAMU and I decided we wanted to move back to Milwaukee. I told my boss that I loved my job and would love to continue on remotely from Milwaukee. She said no. I told her that was fine and that I would begin job searching immediately.
Over two years later I'm still working for the same employer, VPNing in from a lounge chair next to my pool in Glendale.
Sometimes you can go into your boss' office and demand procedural changes.
Anyone who has worked for a large organization has seen things like this. I would characterize this on the less generous end of an employer rewarding a high performer.
Employees are important and even more important when they are the product--sports owners figured this out a long long long time ago.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on September 29, 2023, 12:15:02 AM
After my employer had everyone return to the office and declared that they would not be approving remote work for any employees, Mrs. TAMU and I decided we wanted to move back to Milwaukee. I told my boss that I loved my job and would love to continue on remotely from Milwaukee. She said no. I told her that was fine and that I would begin job searching immediately.
Over two years later I'm still working for the same employer, VPNing in from a lounge chair next to my pool in Glendale.
Sometimes you can go into your boss' office and demand procedural changes.
Ya did that wrong. Shoulda told your boss ta shove the job up her heine, then get fired and collect unemployment, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 29, 2023, 02:44:10 PM
Ya did that wrong. Shoulda told your boss ta shove the job up her heine, then get fired and collect unemployment, hey?
That's a weird response but best of luck if you ever take that approach
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 29, 2023, 02:44:10 PM
Ya did that wrong. Shoulda told your boss ta shove the job up her heine, then get fired and collect unemployment, hey?
You CC can't collect unemployment in that case.
Holiday to Celts
https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1708511470542037182?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1708511470542037182%7Ctwgr%5E22ac3b2d5f2daa244d0f77e11de8e338b3da35fd%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fmarquette%2Fboard%2F104085%2FContents%2Fot-bucks-trade-for-dame--217008967%2F%3Fpage%3D1
Wow. I think Boston now has the edge over Milwaukee. Although they did get rid of Robert Williams. But that team can be scary good if Porzingas holds up.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 01, 2023, 12:50:27 PM
Wow. I think Boston now has the edge over Milwaukee. Although they did get rid of Robert Williams. But that team can be scary good if Porzingas holds up.
They have a great starting five. After that...
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 01, 2023, 12:50:27 PM
Wow. I think Boston now has the edge over Milwaukee. Although they did get rid of Robert Williams. But that team can be scary good if Porzingas holds up.
Celts updated Depth Chart
https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nba/boston-celtics/updated-celtics-depth-chart-after-jrue-holiday-trade-with-blazers/556007/?amp=1
It's juicy that Holiday will be on the East's other big contender. Bucks-Celtics games will be even more must-see TV.
Love Jrue. Hate he's on the Celtics.
Serviceable backup guard signed by the Bucks today, Cam Payne.
Quote from: reinko on October 01, 2023, 02:31:43 PM
Serviceable backup guard signed by the Bucks today, Cam Payne.
This absolutely helps imo.
Quote from: MUfan12 on October 01, 2023, 01:33:43 PM
They have a great starting five. After that...
True, but I'm not sure the Bucks do either.
Guarding then is going to be a bitch. Remember Derrick White was their most consistent player in the playoffs. That's an evil S-5. :(
This, involving Hornets bench player (and former Shaka Smart big recruit at Texas) Kai Jones:
https://theathletic.com/4915411/2023/09/30/hornets-kai-jones-status-nba/
The Charlotte Hornets are expected to have 2021 first-round pick Kai Jones away from the team indefinitely and there's no timetable for his return, according to league sources. Jones will miss camp due to personal reasons and the team remains in communication with him.
Jones went viral on Instagram Live in early September for a clip in which he was seen sweating and speaking quickly, while appearing to say the Hornets would not trade him. He later denied being on drugs or intoxicated in a post on X, formerly Twitter, on Sept. 11.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 01, 2023, 12:50:27 PM
Wow. I think Boston now has the edge over Milwaukee. Although they did get rid of Robert Williams. But that team can be scary good if Porzingas holds up.
Can't help but wonder if Milwaukee's move, which had to be done, may have also cemented a title for Boston.
Quote from: forgetful on October 01, 2023, 03:44:49 PM
Can't help but wonder if Milwaukee's move, which had to be done, may have also cemented a title for Boston.
He does seem like a perfect fit for that squad. I think it's really close between the Bucks and tbe C's. If Middleton can get back to playing at his 2021 level the Bucks can take them out but that's a big question mark. I think the Bucks absolutely made the right move and hopefully the can sign Giannis long-term.
Call me crazy but I actually think Giannis' defense with Middleton's consistency are the two most important factors if they're gonna do some net cutting. Giannis is the rare player that has the ability to dominate on both ends. I don't think he was completely locked in last year at times. He must eliminate opposing players and destroy their will and any grandiose plans of keeping him from a second chip. I expect him drop the hammer a la the 2021 playoffs with regularity.
The Bucks had to do something to show Giannis that they wanted to improve the team. They had to have know that trading him back east was a possibility.
Think it all comes down to health come playoff time for the Bucks. Because last two playoffs since their title, Giannis and Middleton missed significant time.
If the Bucks can keep Giannis, Dame, Middleton, and Lopez healthy, they're the best team and will win it all again.
Quote from: MUfan12 on October 01, 2023, 01:33:43 PM
They have a great starting five. After that...
Yeah, it's very bleak after Derrick White and Horford, whichever is the 5th starter And Horford is 37 and cannot be counted on every night anymore.
The best reserves are otherwise listed as Hauser, Kornet, and Pritchard. That's barely G League good.
Holiday is a great player, but the C's lost a lot of grit and toughness getting rid of Smart and both Williams.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on October 01, 2023, 05:15:58 PM
The best reserves are otherwise listed as Hauser, Kornet, and Pritchard. That's barely G League good.
It's early. They still have plenty of time to trade for Joey.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 01, 2023, 12:50:27 PM
Wow. I think Boston now has the edge over Milwaukee. Although they did get rid of Robert Williams. But that team can be scary good if Porzingas holds up.
You're afraid of the Celtics every season...
Jrue is a HUGE upgrade over Smart. And with him getting to be the 4th or even 5th option on offense should make him more efficient offensively.
I have to say the Milwaukee/Boston match-up is really good for the NBA. I cannot think of anything in recent years as exciting as these two teams battling both in the reg season and playoffs. It's absolute must see TV. And there are obviously some intriguing rivalries in the West.
Jimmy's look at Media Day is...something.
Hoo knew, hey?
Harden is mad. Still demanding a trade.
Philly is Pfuked. What could they get for him?
Quote from: wadesworld on October 02, 2023, 10:10:46 AM
Jimmy's look at Media Day is...something.
Taking the Dame and Jrue trades hard. Plus, now he still has to play with Herro.
Quote from: cheebs09 on October 02, 2023, 10:54:38 AM
Taking the Dame and Jrue trades hard. Plus, now he still has to play with Herro.
Who dislikes Herro more, JFB or the Hauser clan?
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 02, 2023, 10:46:20 AM
Harden is mad. Still demanding a trade.
Philly is Pfuked. What could they get for him?
The Bulls should trade LaVine for him. At least the Bulls would be an interesting .400 team. (I doubt Philly would take LaVine's contract)
Quote from: wadesworld on October 02, 2023, 10:10:46 AM
Jimmy's look at Media Day is...something.
If this becomes his NBA profile picture for the season like the extensions last year, it's objectively hilarious. Shades of Clinton Portis
Quote from: wadesworld on October 02, 2023, 10:10:46 AM
Jimmy's look at Media Day is...something.
For the first time in history Stephen A. Smith was speechless. ;D
Quote from: wadesworld on October 02, 2023, 10:10:46 AM
Jimmy's look at Media Day is...something.
That was real? I saw pictures and thought it was the media picking on him whining about unfairness/tampering.
I really can't believe that was real.
Giannis at Bucks media day (from The Athletic):
Milwaukee Bucks star Giannis Antetokounmpo addressed his contract situation Monday, reiterating that it does not make sense financially to sign an extension with the team this year, but added, "I want to be a Milwaukee Buck for the rest of my career as long as we are committed to winning."
Here's what you need to know:
"I don't remember where I said it, but I said it did not make sense to sign a contract right now because money isn't important, but a lot of f—— money is important, so I'm going to sign it next year," Antetokounmpo said during the Bucks' media day ahead of the upcoming season.
Antetokounmpo, 28, has two years remaining on the five-year, $228 million supermax extension he signed in 2020. He also has a player option for the 2025-26 season.
Antetokounmpo also addressed Milwaukee's recent trade for seven-time NBA All-Star Damian Lillard, saying, "We added another level to our team. ... (The Bucks front office has) shown they're committed to winning a championship. I'm happy."
I know it's the nature of cap rising, but to the conversations about how the elite NBA stars are actually underpaid...kind of wild to look at Giannis, one of the unquestioned 3 best players in the world, on a 5/$228 deal when Devin Vassel and his 18/4/3 who isn't even in the top 20 players in the West, just got 5/$150
Quote from: JWags85 on October 03, 2023, 11:08:37 AM
I know it's the nature of cap rising, but to the conversations about how the elite NBA stars are actually underpaid...kind of wild to look at Giannis, one of the unquestioned 3 best players in the world, on a 5/$228 deal when Devin Vassel and his 18/4/3 who isn't even in the top 20 players in the West, just got 5/$150
I have to admit, I had to look up that name, Devin Vassel. I do not even remember him in college, let alone the NBA.
Quote from: forgetful on October 02, 2023, 09:39:41 PM
That was real? I saw pictures and thought it was the media picking on him whining about unfairness/tampering.
I really can't believe that was real.
He's just trolling.
Last year, he showed up for media day in dreadlocks.
(https://staticg.sportskeeda.com/editor/2022/10/01c05-16667472978049-1920.jpg)
Quote from: Pakuni on October 03, 2023, 12:21:06 PM
He's just trolling.
Last year, he showed up for media day in dreadlocks.
(https://staticg.sportskeeda.com/editor/2022/10/01c05-16667472978049-1920.jpg)
Not just dreads, dreads that were hair extensions
Quote from: Pakuni on October 03, 2023, 12:21:06 PM
He's just trolling.
Last year, he showed up for media day in dreadlocks.
(https://staticg.sportskeeda.com/editor/2022/10/01c05-16667472978049-1920.jpg)
Maybe he should focus on basketball and not hairstyles and he might win a ring. He's no Hauser
https://twitter.com/HoodieBev/status/1709586096777273413?s=20
Oof
Quote from: wadesworld on October 04, 2023, 10:38:55 AM
https://twitter.com/HoodieBev/status/1709586096777273413?s=20
Oof
(https://img.ifunny.co/images/5ced19b2a3553f11afff5758f16c1c218087e19fb100e8ff87e867a1d402b2d9_1.jpg)
Nm
I love all the NBA analysis that Holiday was not good enough for the Bucks to win a championship but now on the Celtics he is one of the best players all time.
Quote from: PointWarrior on October 04, 2023, 09:11:00 PM
I love all the NBA analysis that Holiday was not good enough for the Bucks to win a championship but now on the Celtics he is one of the best players all time.
The man can dribble with his left hand, he's the best player on the team
I haven't seen many, if any, analysts say Jrue wasn't good enough for the Bucks to win a title. He was quite literally the missing piece for the Bucks to win a title.
Jrue is awesome and he'll be incredible for the Celtics.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 04, 2023, 10:16:06 PM
I haven't seen many, if any, analysts say Jrue wasn't good enough for the Bucks to win a title. He was quite literally the missing piece for the Bucks to win a title.
Jrue is awesome and he'll be incredible for the Celtics.
Right. The problem is they could not score the last two years come playoff time. Middleton has fallen off and Allen wasn't good enough. But you have to give up something to get something.
Not to mention that Giannis didn't just want to roll the same group back out there.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 04, 2023, 09:39:36 PM
The man can dribble with his left hand, he's the best player on the team
I get this joke
Lauren Holiday wasn't exactly thrilled with how the Bucks told Jrue he was traded.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 05, 2023, 07:51:11 PM
Lauren Holiday wasn't exactly thrilled with how the Bucks told Jrue he was traded.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think this ends up blowing up on the Bucks.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 05, 2023, 07:55:28 PM
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think this ends up blowing up on the Bucks.
I'm shocked this is how they told him.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 05, 2023, 07:55:28 PM
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think this ends up blowing up on the Bucks.
It might.
But I don't think running the same squad back was going to work either.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 05, 2023, 07:58:46 PM
I'm shocked this is how they told him.
It's a business and he's naive to think he wouldn't possibly be traded after last year's flameout. However, I agree with you. He deserved better
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 05, 2023, 08:01:25 PM
It might.
But I don't think running the same squad back was going to work either.
For sure. Needed to be bold. Sometimes, bold moves don't work. Hoping it does work
I like the trade. My concern is a new coach and Lopez staying healthy. Holiday is a terrific all around-player but the Bucks had major stretches where they were anemic in their h-c offense . And while Lillard isn't much of a defender there were a number of times the Bucks got shredded, including in the playoffs. Lillard's game should absolutely complement Antetokounmpo's.
#22 scorched his ass in da playoffs. Time ta bee peddled, hey?
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 05, 2023, 07:51:11 PM
Lauren Holiday wasn't exactly thrilled with how the Bucks told Jrue he was traded.
Yeah Lauren, there is a little downside to the massive amount of money your husband will earn in his career. Your lives may be uprooted in a moments notice. And millions would also gladly trade their problems for yours in a heartbeat.
I saw Grayson said he had a few missed calls from the team, but was playing FIFA. I think they found out from media reports and then he checked his phone.
I know Horst played it very close to the vest. I don't think you tell Jrue about the trade until it's complete. It stinks, but if it doesn't get done, then you risk Jrue being pissed his name came up in trade talks.
Not looking good for Miles
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38636653/suspended-hornets-f-miles-bridges-criminal-summons-issued (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38636653/suspended-hornets-f-miles-bridges-criminal-summons-issued)
Rough week for the Hornets
Quote from: lawdog77 on October 12, 2023, 10:03:59 AM
Not looking good for Miles
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38636653/suspended-hornets-f-miles-bridges-criminal-summons-issued (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38636653/suspended-hornets-f-miles-bridges-criminal-summons-issued)
Another outstanding young man molded by Izzo.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 12, 2023, 10:28:01 AM
Another outstanding young man molded by Izzo.
Bet Izzo regrets having Keith Appling handle Bridges' recruitment visits and mentorship
Quote from: JWags85 on October 12, 2023, 10:51:47 AM
Bet Izzo regrets having Keith Appling handle Bridges' recruitment visits and mentorship
And then there's Adereian Payne, who seemed to have an incredible relationship with a Make A Wish child, died trying to protect a domestic violence victim, but in between admitted to being involved in Appling's sexual assault.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 12, 2023, 10:28:01 AM
Another outstanding young man molded by Izzo.
Bridges was sitting on the State bench last year for a few games. I thought that was a very bad look for Izzo
Quote from: swoopem on October 12, 2023, 11:00:15 AM
Bridges was sitting on the State bench last year for a few games. I thought that was a very bad look for Izzo
Izzo's track record of molding boys to men is why one would transfer to play for him
Quote from: swoopem on October 12, 2023, 11:00:15 AM
Bridges was sitting on the State bench last year for a few games. I thought that was a very bad look for Izzo
Yeah, I didn't even realize that. That's very odd, at best. Maybe having the guy who can't be on an NBA court because of felony domestic violence shouldn't be sitting on your college team's bench while he serves his NBA suspension.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 12, 2023, 10:58:34 AM
And then there's Adereian Payne, who seemed to have an incredible relationship with a Make A Wish child, died trying to protect a domestic violence victim, but in between admitted to being involved in Appling's sexual assault.
FWIW, didn't he admit it to police during the investigation? If I recall, it happened when he and Appling were freshmen. And the Lacey stuff didn't happen until a few years later when he was a senior. Obviously it doesn't excuse sexual assault if he indeed committed that crime, but at least a most consistent timeline of actions since that point. He seemed to then be a standup dude from age 19 on while Appling...welp.
Quote from: JWags85 on October 12, 2023, 01:36:10 PM
FWIW, didn't he admit it to police during the investigation? If I recall, it happened when he and Appling were freshmen. And the Lacey stuff didn't happen until a few years later when he was a senior. Obviously it doesn't excuse sexual assault if he indeed committed that crime, but at least a most consistent timeline of actions since that point. He seemed to then be a standup dude from age 19 on while Appling...welp.
Good points.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 12, 2023, 11:09:20 AM
Izzo's track record of molding boys to men felons is why one would transfer to play for him
FIFY
<to be fair to Izzo, its not just him, it's the whole university>
Miles Bridges teaches a master class on how to ruin a promising NBA career.
It's still preseason/early, but after a rough Summer League relative to expectations, Wemby is certainly looking the part as advertised. SHEESH
If the NBA is serious about expansion they should send a team to Seattle and take all of OKC's picks to create a team. Return the favor for taking the Sonics and moving them to OKC.
15 firsts and 22 seconds over the next 7 years for the Thunder. All those picks, plus a lot of tradeable contract. If/when Embiid requests a trade they should make a serious run at him. They could provide a really good package without giving up SGA, Giddey, Jalen Williams, or Chet. I hate Embiid, but add him to those 4 as a starting lineup and my goodness you have something. And would STILL have a lot of picks in your control.
I always wondered why any FA would want to sign with OKC, but it is really a cool city. Kinda like a more modern Milwaukee- lots of renovation.
Just starting our westward voyage and spent yesterday in the Bricktown section of the city. Very upscale and includes the PayCom Arena. Looks like a great place to party if the Thunder ever get to the Finals.
Free agents care about money and championships. They will play wherever it if helps them achieve those things.
Quote from: Jockey on October 17, 2023, 01:18:54 PM
I always wondered why any FA would want to sign with OKC, but it is really a cool city. Kinda like a more modern Milwaukee- lots of renovation.
Just starting our westward voyage and spent yesterday in the Bricktown section of the city. Very upscale and includes the PayCom Arena. Looks like a great place to party if the Thunder ever get to the Finals.
I can appreciate the first hand perspective, but I can honestly say you're the first person Ive ever heard describe OKC as "really cool". My sister has a couple of old coworkers/now good friends who are OK St grads and Oklahoma natives and they describe OKC as "Fort Worth...but a lot less cool". And thats cowboy land Ft Worth, not Dallas.
There's a ton of oil and nat gas money there, so there is some cool and nice stuff. But its pretty comfortably in the bottom 3 of least desirable NBA cities with Sacramento and SLC.
Quote from: JWags85 on October 17, 2023, 02:31:36 PM
I can appreciate the first hand perspective, but I can honestly say you're the first person Ive ever heard describe OKC as "really cool". My sister has a couple of old coworkers/now good friends who are OK St grads and Oklahoma natives and they describe OKC as "Fort Worth...but a lot less cool". And thats cowboy land Ft Worth, not Dallas.
There's a ton of oil and nat gas money there, so there is some cool and nice stuff. But its pretty comfortably in the bottom 3 of least desirable NBA cities with Sacramento and SLC.
As I said, I was mainly in the Bricktown area which has been pretty much gentrified. Converted warehouses, upscale restaurants, etc.
Harden skipped practice.
Terry Stotts stepping down as an assistant for the Bucks isn't really the best news for the Bucks right now...
Pissin' match wit Giannis/Griffin, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 19, 2023, 08:56:52 AM
Pissin' match wit Giannis/Griffin, hey?
Maybe he wrote a letter
People leave bad managers
Time for the "head of cabbage vs Adrian Griffin"
Pretty sure #34 iz inn charge, aina?
Quote from: wadesworld on October 19, 2023, 08:54:18 AM
Terry Stotts stepping down as an assistant for the Bucks isn't really the best news for the Bucks right now...
I can't disagree with you. WTF?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 19, 2023, 10:09:32 AM
Pretty sure #34 iz inn charge, aina?
Yeah, maybe he didn't like the letter
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 19, 2023, 10:12:00 AM
I can't disagree with you. WTF?
Dunno, maybe Dame didn't like his old coach.
Predictions on WWWD? (When Will Wemby Dominate). 2025 or 2026?
Yep, Stotts and Griffin butted heads. Rumors of disagreement on how the offense should run. Stotts wanting the 3 ball, and Griffin wanting the offense to go thru #34.
Predictably, not good for #0, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 20, 2023, 08:28:23 AM
Yep, Stotts and Griffin butted heads. Rumors of disagreement on how the offense should run. Stotts wanting the 3 ball, and Griffin wanting the offense to go thru #34.
Predictably, not good for #0, aina?
Dame should some leadership and write a letter
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 20, 2023, 08:28:23 AM
Yep, Stotts and Griffin butted heads. Rumors of disagreement on how the offense should run. Stotts wanting the 3 ball, and Griffin wanting the offense to go thru #34.
Predictably, not good for #0, aina?
3 ball? That's against NBA rules only 1 ball.
Predictions on Dame's usage rate this year? His usage rate has been over 29 since 2016. I'm guessing it'll be ~26% next year with Giannis maintaining over a 30% usage rate.
Doesn't appear that Stotts was mentally ready to just be an assistant again.
Or he soon realized Griffin is not ready to be an NBA head coach, aina?
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on October 20, 2023, 11:22:51 AM
Doesn't appear that Stotts was mentally ready to just be an assistant again.
This.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 20, 2023, 12:23:26 PM
Or he soon realized Griffin is not ready to be an NBA head coach, aina?
Stotts decision to quit shows great leadership then
Obviously it's still preseason basketball, but the Bucks look like green snot, both offensively and defensively, aina?
come on fellas-they're playing their "C" & "D" players...thanasis and beauchamp in at crunch time says it all. waiting for mallory to spell aj green
If the Bucks season depends on an assistant coach, then they weren't going far anyway.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 21, 2023, 06:45:12 AM
If the Bucks season depends on an assistant coach, then they weren't going far anyway.
4elder wants Giannis and the Bucks to fail so he can finally be right the Bucks should have peddled his azz despite them winning a title and all
File under 'bat $h!t crazy': hearing Patrick Williams wants a $200MM extension.
For both Bulls fans and non-Bulls fans information, Williams is an under sized lazy power forward for the Chicago Bulls. He has averaged 9.7 PPG and 4.3 RPG.
I predict the Bulls will give him $250MM
Clearly you've never heard of manifestation ;D
Quote from: JWags85 on October 21, 2023, 08:49:47 AM
Clearly you've never heard of manifestation ;D
Ha! The tiny amount of people who have seen him play or even know who he is, would say the Bulls would be crazy to resign him at any amount. I honestly think Joey H would be a more effective NBA player than Williams. $200MM? ::)
I guess, slightly in his defense, he has been a starter in the NBA; albeit on one of the worst teams in the league, and he is only a starter to justify the Bulls taking a borderline 1st round pick with the 4th pick in the draft.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 21, 2023, 09:18:11 AM
Ha! The tiny amount of people who have seen him play or even know who he is, would say the Bulls would be crazy to resign him at any amount. I honestly think Joey H would be a more effective NBA player than Williams. $200MM? ::)
I guess, slightly in his defense, he has been a starter in the NBA; albeit on one of the worst teams in the league, and he is only a starter to justify the Bulls taking a borderline 1st round pick with the 4th pick in the draft.
Yeah you're way, way underrating Williams. No he's not worth as much as he thinks. But he's a ton better than you're pretending he is. I'd love him on the Bucks right now.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 21, 2023, 12:59:52 PM
Yeah you're way, way underrating Williams. No he's not worth as much as he thinks. But he's a ton better than you're pretending he is. I'd love him on the Bucks right now.
Any Bulls fan I've talked to or read posts of agrees with me that he's a guy that doesn't contribute as much as his stats indicate (10p/4r). Like the exact opposite of a Draymond Greene. My electric toothbrush has a higher motor than Williams.
Lucky for you, I think your Bucks will have the opportunity to pay him $200,000,000.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 21, 2023, 12:59:52 PM
Yeah you're way, way underrating Williams. No he's not worth as much as he thinks. But he's a ton better than you're pretending he is. I'd love him on the Bucks right now.
Yea there is a HUGE gap between $200M contract and Joey Hauser.
I'm not super high on him as a "star" but he's only 22, this is only his 3rd full season (missed most of his 2nd year with injuries), and came into the league as a bit of a project.
Hell, JFB averaged 12/5/2 in his 3rd year on a much more competent Bulls team. Williams averaged 10/4/1.5 in less minutes for a dumpster fire. Still has a lot of upside
Speaking of upside...I watched most of a Wemby game for the first time last night and MY GOD. He's going to be absolutely insane in 2-3 years if he holds up physically. His pure length and disruptiveness as a result is wild to watch. He drew a foul on a rebound where Looney jumped straight up for the ball...but Wemby had one of his spider limbs reaching a foot over his head from a few feet away and Looney hit him with his hand on the ball and got a loose ball foul. Just nuts. I remember Porzingis coming in and being talked about as "The Unicorn" and Wemby makes him look like a stiff. Still a lot for put together and consistency/health is a huge factor, but his potential as a player is a player/type we've never seen before
Quote from: JWags85 on October 21, 2023, 03:34:03 PM
Hell, JFB averaged 12/5/2 in his 3rd year on a much more competent Bulls team. Williams averaged 10/4/1.5 in less minutes for a dumpster fire.
Thank you for supporting my argument. Williams' teammate who went to the Spurs' dumpster fire the same year averaged 18/4/4. Garbage teams give mid level talent the opportunity to pad their stats. If Williams averaged 10/4/1.5 for the teams Butler was on, you may have a point.
Williams starts to 'cover' for the FO wasting #4 pick, but he really does not get starter minutes .... even on a garbage team.
Look, Williams is not the reason the Bulls are a dumpster fire, he's just another log on that fire.
I don't care about the guy, I hope he gets all he can, but the stats and the level of play + he's 22 with possible up side, screams $50M, 4 Years.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 21, 2023, 03:53:37 PM
Thank you for supporting my argument. Williams' teammate who went to the Spurs' dumpster fire the same year averaged 18/4/4. Garbage teams give mid level talent the opportunity to pad their stats. If Williams averaged 10/4/1.5 for the teams Butler was on, you may have a point.
Williams starts to 'cover' for the FO wasting #4 pick, but he really does not get starter minutes .... even on a garbage team.
Look, Williams is not the reason the Bulls are a dumpster fire, he's just another log on that fire.
I don't care about the guy, I hope he gets all he can, but the stats and the level of play + he's 22 with possible up side, screams $50M, 4 Years.
You think playing with Lavine and DeRozan gives him "opportunity to pad [his] stats?"
Quote from: wadesworld on October 21, 2023, 07:52:36 PM
You think playing with Lavine and DeRozan gives him "opportunity to pad [his] stats?"
Hard to pad stats when your play and lack of effort keeps your minutes in the mid 20s. His playing time has nothing to do with Lavine and DeRozan.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 21, 2023, 08:17:04 PM
Hard to pad stats when your play and lack of effort keeps your minutes in the mid 20s. His playing time has nothing to do with Lavine and DeRozan.
His shot attempts do though. Which is where you pad your stats.
If 28 mpg is some crazy low number for a guy who was 21 years old all season last year I don't know what to say. You're acting like he's some player that couldn't even get on the court for a horrible team. The reality is 28 MPG would be 4th most on just about any roster in the NBA (including the Bulls).
Anyway, can't wait to see Joey Hauser getting those minutes in the NBA when he's 21!
Oh wait, Joey was playing 21 MPG at MSU when he was 21 years old, and had 2 more years of college basketball to follow.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 22, 2023, 07:54:59 AM
His shot attempts do though. If 28 mpg is some crazy low number for a guy who was 21 years old all season last year I don't know what to say. Can't wait to see Joey Hauser getting those minutes in the NBA when he's 21!
Oh wait, Joey was playing 21 MPG when he was 21 years old, and had 2 more years of college basketball to follow.
This is true. My Joey comment was hyperbole due to my absolute shock that Williams believes he's a $200M player.
The overarching point is Williams is expecting to be paid like a star not like a guy who plays 28 mpg on a team with very little competition for playing time.
I think we/I have spent too much time on a player no one will remember in 5 years?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 22, 2023, 08:07:13 AM
This is true. My Joey comment was hyperbole due to my absolute shock that Williams believes he's a $200M player.
The overarching point is Williams is expecting to be paid like a star not like a guy who plays 28 mpg on a team with very little competition for playing time.
I think we/I have spent too much time on a player no one will remember in 5 years?
But that's what the discussion is. NOBODY outside of Williams, his family, and his agent thinks he deserves $200MM. You have full support there. But then you went to basically describe him as an abject bum, JH replacement level. That's silly.
I think 4/$50 is a fair deal. As for nobody remembering him in 5 years? He's a productive player at 22 who hasn't reached his ceiling, I would bet ALOT of money on him still being in the league in 5 years, and maybe very good if he's on a better team/org
Quote from: JWags85 on October 22, 2023, 10:00:50 AM
But that's what the discussion is. NOBODY outside of Williams, his family, and his agent thinks he deserves $200MM. You have full support there. But then you went to basically describe him as an abject bum, JH replacement level. That's silly.
Please read my response. I admitted hyperbole.
Quote from: JWags85 on October 22, 2023, 10:00:50 AMI think 4/$50 is a fair deal. As for nobody remembering him in 5 years? He's a productive player at 22 who hasn't reached his ceiling, I would bet ALOT of money on him still being in the league in 5 years, and maybe very good if he's on a better team/org
We will have to wait and see. I think passion and energy for playing basketball does not increase as you get older. Skills, feel and smarts get better. Maybe there are some good examples of talented players with low motors finding a love for the game?
Giannis signs three year extension.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 23, 2023, 05:49:57 PM
Giannis signs three year extension.
Player option for fourth year
https://sports.yahoo.com/report-bucks-giannis-antetokounmpo-agree-to-3-year-186-million-extension-224020789.html
Absolutely MASSIVE. Wonder how much getting Dame had to do with it, but man way to get it done. I was genuinely worried he may move to a LA/Miami sort of team after this deal, but now he's locked through age 33/34 and a very real chance he retires as a Buck.
Quote from: JWags85 on October 23, 2023, 06:08:30 PM
Absolutely MASSIVE. Wonder how much getting Dame had to do with it, but man way to get it done. I was genuinely worried he may move to a LA/Miami sort of team after this deal, but now he's locked through age 33/34 and a very real chance he retires as a Buck.
Logic behind Giannis extending now
https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1716591246314013085?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Great day for the city of Milwaukee
Quote from: Herman Cain on October 23, 2023, 06:09:45 PM
Logic behind Giannis extending now
https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1716591246314013085?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
That will buy a lot of brats.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 23, 2023, 05:50:29 PM
4elder in shambles
He still has MU to rag on. But Shaka is ruining all his boo-hoo here too.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 23, 2023, 06:12:17 PM
Great day for the city of Milwaukee
Sure, if anybody survives living there.
Oh..... yes. That makes the Lillard trade an A+ no matter what happens this season.
Quote from: Herman Cain on October 23, 2023, 06:09:45 PM
Logic behind Giannis extending now
https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1716591246314013085?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Whole lot of revisionist history on this from Marks and a lot of the experts. They're absolutely flummoxed that Milwaukee just ran roughshod over all of their preconceived notions.
Has anyone been to Giannis' restaurant?
The level of ESPN bias against the Bucks is pathetic. Pretty much all of their NBA people except Legler are a disgrace. I've seen the clips. For months and months and months they have openly tried to get Giannis to leave Milwaukee. Now, that he's staying, they're making up some convoluted nonsense and criticizing his decision? What a bunch of losers.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 24, 2023, 11:39:26 AM
The level of ESPN bias against the Bucks is pathetic. Pretty much all of their NBA people accept Legler are a disgrace. I've seen the clips. For months and months and months they have openly tried to get Giannis to leave Milwaukee. Now, that he's staying, they're making up some convoluted nonsense and criticizing his decision? What a bunch of losers.
I don't think its a specific bias against the Bucks, its just the nature of big market media, both for places like ESPN, as well as the NBA.
The two best players in the world are in markets outside of the top 10 (and now the new young #1 pick, potential superstar is in another small market). Bucks I believe are actually bottom 5, market size wise. The narrative has always been for stars to go to big markets when they "outgrow" their initial team or when they are getting a big deal.
Giannis has bucked that trend, thankfully, but thats a long history of traditional thinking/storylines for NBA stars before him. Media plays into that and talking heads like Windhorst need to play their stories/sources as strongly as possible to seem legit. I heard plenty of chatter about Giannis leaving after this deal...whether Miami or maybe even somewhere like GS. I don't know how much was just fictional buzz or reality, but it was there. So guys like Windy stir that up. Then when its proved false, they can't go "oh I was wrong or I heard wrong" cause then they lose credibility or look speculative. So they just double down and criticize. They are entertainment writers who cover sports, not Pulitzer caliber journalists.
Stephen A ripped Windhorst this morning for criticizing the deal which was funny.
Quote from: JWags85 on October 24, 2023, 11:57:42 AM
I don't think its a specific bias against the Bucks, its just the nature of big market media, both for places like ESPN, as well as the NBA.
The two best players in the world are in markets outside of the top 10 (and now the new young #1 pick, potential superstar is in another small market). Bucks I believe are actually bottom 5, market size wise. The narrative has always been for stars to go to big markets when they "outgrow" their initial team or when they are getting a big deal.
Giannis has bucked that trend, thankfully, but thats a long history of traditional thinking/storylines for NBA stars before him. Media plays into that and talking heads like Windhorst need to play their stories/sources as strongly as possible to seem legit. I heard plenty of chatter about Giannis leaving after this deal...whether Miami or maybe even somewhere like GS. I don't know how much was just fictional buzz or reality, but it was there. So guys like Windy stir that up. Then when its proved false, they can't go "oh I was wrong or I heard wrong" cause then they lose credibility or look speculative. So they just double down and criticize. They are entertainment writers who cover sports, not Pulitzer caliber journalists.
Stephen A ripped Windhorst this morning for criticizing the deal which was funny.
Jwags,
I saw tbe clips of Windbag and Bobby Marks. Absolutely inexcusable imo.
I also think they need to fill air time, and with the regular season losing importance, the biggest story is player movement. Harden and Kyrie have been goldmines for that. With the ring culture, everything is about the playoffs and the regular season drama isn't really there.
Just sit back and enjoy that so far, Giannis has made everyone look silly by going against the narrative.
Who cares
https://x.com/eric_nehm/status/1716925364830892275?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
How lucky is Milwaukee to have Giannis?
Jokic is ridiculous. How do you guard the guy?
Giannis said he did not even know the value of contract extension he signed
https://www.si.com/nba/2023/10/24/giannis-antetokounmpo-new-contract-extension-without-knowing-numbers
Excellent video of Giannis speaking of the city in the article as well
I think, for the first time LBJ looks old to me. Not bad, just old.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 24, 2023, 09:01:41 PM
I think, for the first time LBJ looks old to me. Not bad, just old.
Anthony Davis also looked outclassed by Jokic.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 24, 2023, 09:14:16 PM
Anthony Davis also looked outclassed by Jokic.
0 points in the 2H. Impressive. :o
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 24, 2023, 09:24:05 PM
0 points in the 2H. Impressive. :o
Zero?? I didn't even realize that. I have no idea how you guard Nikola. He's tremendously skilled and seems to be able to bully anyone he wants.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 24, 2023, 09:31:41 PM
Zero?? I didn't even realize that. I have no idea how you guard Nikola. He's tremendously skilled and seems to be able to bully anyone he wants.
Dude is a handful. Even speed doesn't phase him.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 24, 2023, 09:41:18 PM
Dude is a handful. Even speed doesn't phase him.
Exactly. He's always under control and if you double he'll just shred the defense. No offense to Jimmy Buckets but that's not a guy I would fk with physically either.
It doesn't look like the Bucks will miss Grayson Allen.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 24, 2023, 09:01:41 PM
I think, for the first time LBJ looks old to me. Not bad, just old.
I didn't see one second of the game, but I did just read the guy in The Athletic saying, "LeBron James still looks great." His exact words. Doesn't mean you are wrong and he is right, just relaying a different POV.
Wouldn't surprise me if he looks old, though. He is ancient by NBA standards.
Quote from: MU82 on October 25, 2023, 09:10:34 AM
I didn't see one second of the game, but I did just read the guy in The Athletic saying, "LeBron James still looks great." His exact words. Doesn't mean you are wrong and he is right, just relaying a different POV.
Wouldn't surprise me if he looks old, though. He is ancient by NBA standards.
He'll be haunting the shut and dribble crowd at least through next season
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 24, 2023, 11:33:50 PM
It doesn't look like the Bucks will miss Grayson Allen.
But if they find themselves in a situation where they need that particular skill, who do they have who can deliver an effective nut punch or trip someone? Any chance they'll get Davison on a two-way?
Quote from: MU82 on October 25, 2023, 09:10:34 AM
I didn't see one second of the game, but I did just read the guy in The Athletic saying, "LeBron James still looks great." His exact words. Doesn't mean you are wrong and he is right, just relaying a different POV.
Wouldn't surprise me if he looks old, though. He is ancient by NBA standards.
Thats just part of the trope with Lebron though. Every year its "Year (insert what number season it is)!" whenever he makes an athletic play.
He didn't look bad, but he definitely looked slow of foot, especially defensively. And not in a "Lebron plays lazy defense to save energy" way like he has the last few years, but rather just not quick enough on rotations and such.
I agree he still will play at least another year after this, but it will be very interesting to see him come Feb/Mar, I think his legs are gonna be REALLY heavy.
Hmmm...NBA or NFL? NFL or NBA?
Myles Garrett just became a part owner of the Cavs (https://x.com/cavs/status/1717248065940201912?s=20). Hopefully that means he'll stick around Cleveland for a bit longer.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on October 25, 2023, 03:17:26 PM
Hmmm...NBA or NFL? NFL or NBA?
Myles Garrett just became a part owner of the Cavs (https://x.com/cavs/status/1717248065940201912?s=20). Hopefully that means he'll stick around Cleveland for a bit longer.
Why did the tweet call him a minority partner instead of just a partner, hmm? Makes you think
Quote from: JWags85 on October 25, 2023, 12:36:37 PM
Thats just part of the trope with Lebron though. Every year its "Year (insert what number season it is)!" whenever he makes an athletic play.
He didn't look bad, but he definitely looked slow of foot, especially defensively. And not in a "Lebron plays lazy defense to save energy" way like he has the last few years, but rather just not quick enough on rotations and such.
I agree he still will play at least another year after this, but it will be very interesting to see him come Feb/Mar, I think his legs are gonna be REALLY heavy.
That's what I saw and not as assertive on offense. He had a nice drive and slam in the 2H but he didn't get much above the rim.
Just amazing what he has accomplished. True legend.
Thanks for providing good context re LeBron, Wags and WT.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 25, 2023, 03:59:47 PM
Why did the tweet call him a minority partner instead of just a partner, hmm? Makes you think
Let's have Heisy look into this.
Quote from: JWags85 on October 25, 2023, 12:36:37 PM
Thats just part of the trope with Lebron though. Every year its "Year (insert what number season it is)!" whenever he makes an athletic play.
He didn't look bad, but he definitely looked slow of foot, especially defensively. And not in a "Lebron plays lazy defense to save energy" way like he has the last few years, but rather just not quick enough on rotations and such.
I agree he still will play at least another year after this, but it will be very interesting to see him come Feb/Mar, I think his legs are gonna be REALLY heavy.
His individual defense is getting worse every year( to be expected). But his team defense is still outstanding.
As far as Feb/Mar, I 'think' he'll probably be OK as I expect his minutes will be down this year due to the team having the same concerns that you talked about.
Wemby vs Omax as soon as this game is over.
Bulls an impressive 6-23 from 3.
But, P. Williams on pace for 12pts, 0 rebs and 26 min.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 25, 2023, 08:20:23 PM
Wemby vs Omax as soon as this game is over.
I'm definitely tuning in
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 25, 2023, 08:23:53 PM
Bulls an impressive 6-23 from 3.
But, P. Williams on pace for 12pts, 0 rebs and 26 min.
Sweet Jesus.
Sammy with 0 on 0-4, 0-4.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 25, 2023, 08:28:44 PM
Sammy with 0 on 0-4, 0-4.
And the lineup that had him and Pritchard on the court gave up a huge run early in the 4th. That's going to be their problem. Great top 6. Will have to play some rough lineups with the lack of depth beyond that.
And at some point Horford has to age. If it's this year that's a problem for them.
Ughhh. C'mon ESPN. Flip on OMax/Wemby.
Time for Dallas to get OMax on tbe floor. They're not a good defensive team.
It's time for the Bulls to tank. That team is an utter disaster.
Dwight Howard in the news.
https://nypost.com/2023/10/25/sports/dwight-howard-accused-of-sexual-assault-by-man-in-lawsuit/
Whoa.....Harrison Barnes with 27 at the half on 10'11, 5-5 from distance.
Wemby will learn but two cheap fouls.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 25, 2023, 09:07:33 PM
It's time for the Bulls to tank. That team is an utter disaster.
Not going to happen. If you haven't noticed, Zach Lavine only wins in the NBA. I don't think he has ever missed the playoffs and he will elevate this team to success.
:o
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 25, 2023, 09:27:43 PM
Not going to happen. If you haven't noticed, Zach Lavine only wins in the NBA. I don't think he has ever missed the playoffs and he will elevate this team to success.
:o
LOL.
Impressed with Wemby's passing.
What exactly is the "NBA Cup"?
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 25, 2023, 09:55:19 PM
What exactly is the "NBA Cup"?
It's what NBA players wear to protect the NBA jewels.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 25, 2023, 09:55:19 PM
What exactly is the "NBA Cup"?
Personal defense against Grayson Allen?
It doesn't make any sense to me. What's the point?
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 25, 2023, 10:01:47 PM
It doesn't make any sense to me. What's the point?
I agree. No point. Even if a fan was excited about it, they would never admit it for fear of being made fun of.
The NBA players have made it abundantly clear the regular season is pointless.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 25, 2023, 10:08:06 PM
I agree. No point. Even if a fan was excited about it, they would never admit it for fear of being made fun of.
The NBA players have made it abundantly clear the regular season is pointless.
But according to Richard Jefferson when he played for the Spurs they were obsessed about "winning every game". When they lost there was "total silence" on the team bus. I suppose this was one of the years when they didn't load manage.
Wembanyama has a nice couple minutes to give Spurs the lead. Then Pop just has him standing in the corner as a floor-spreader while other Spurs force it inside and keep losing the ball.
Pop obviously knows more ball than all of us put together, but that was curious strategy.
Quote from: MU82 on October 25, 2023, 11:16:05 PM
Wembanyama has a nice couple minutes to give Spurs the lead. Then Pop just has him standing in the corner as a floor-spreader while other Spurs force it inside and keep losing the ball.
Pop obviously knows more ball than all of us put together, but that was curious strategy.
Ya...get Wemby touches and on the move. the kid will be fine but there's a bit of a learning curve.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 25, 2023, 09:07:33 PM
It's time for the Bulls to tank. That team is an utter disaster.
The Bulls had a "players only" meeting after game 1. LOL.
It appears your declaration of "utter disaster" is correct. Perhaps the continuity strategy was incorrect. Maybe the Bulls are more of the definition of 'Insanity'; doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.
Meanwhile, boring #2 overall pick Brandon Miller scored 8 key points down the stretch to help the Hornets actually win their opener.
Unlike the Panthers, at least the Hornets can't go winless this season!
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 26, 2023, 07:32:38 AM
The Bulls had a "players only" meeting after game 1. LOL.
It appears your declaration of "utter disaster" is correct. Perhaps the continuity strategy was incorrect. Maybe the Bulls are more of the definition of 'Insanity'; doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.
How pathetic. How long have we implored them to start over?
I just turned on the Bucks. Lillard with a nice little barrage of buckets.
Bucks have a chance ta be special, aina?
The offense will be awesome. Dame's talent is obvious. Beyond that, the ball movement and player movement is so much better.
Also, Dame and Giannis is a perfect pair. But huge Brook Lopez screens for Dame 30 feet from the basket make a big man trying to defend Dame in that much space impossible.
I don't know that I'll love the defense being in rotation all game.
Mallory looks lonely sittin' next ta her old man....and I don't mean #8, hey?
Quote from: wadesworld on October 26, 2023, 07:55:14 PM
The offense will be awesome. Dame's talent is obvious. Beyond that, the ball movement and player movement is so much better.
Also, Dame and Giannis is a perfect pair. But huge Brook Lopez screens for Dame 30 feet from the basket make a big man trying to defend Dame in that much space impossible.
I don't know that I'll love the defense being in rotation all game.
Should Beauchamp or Beasley start?
I know the guy who sold his condo to #3. In the counteroffer was written, "buyer shall provide seller with an autographed Bucks jersey at closing," hey?
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 26, 2023, 08:00:10 PM
Should Beauchamp or Beasley start?
Beasley. Better shooter, more consistent offense, and Beauchamp has the tools to be a good defender while Beasley is not. So Beasley is on the court while both Giannis and Brook are in to rim protect and Beachamp can help the second team defense more than Beasley.
Not a good defensive start to the 3Q.
Apparently they read my post. :)
Giannis has been out of control and forcing for no reason.
Pretty ugly h-c basketball for the Bucks. No idea why Giannus continues to take 3's.
Only the first game, but Giannis needs to find his teammates
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 26, 2023, 08:49:52 PM
Pretty ugly h-c basketball for the Bucks. No idea why Giannus continues to take 3's.
I haven't seen Middleton at all. Ya....Giannis has forced way too much and his FT's and J have been brutal. Move the basketball. Pretty goof 4th Q for Jae.
Middleton's played. Minutes restricted.
Lillard is only a career .895 FT shooter?
Pretty good debut for Dame.
Dame is a way difference maker when needing a shot than Jrue.
Quote from: PointWarrior on October 26, 2023, 09:23:01 PM
Dane is a way difference maker when needing a shot than Jrue.
Different level. He can score in the h-court and is underrated on the blow-by. That said (I get that it's game 1) the Bucks should be way more efficient in their offensive sets.
That game was the epitome of why you traded for Dame. What a player, what a performance. Absolutely unreal.
Quote from: PointWarrior on October 26, 2023, 09:23:01 PM
Dane is a way difference maker when needing a shot than Jrue.
The Danish are known for shot making.
Quote from: JWags85 on October 26, 2023, 09:31:22 PM
That game was the epitome of why you traded for Dame. What a player, what a performance. Absolutely unreal.
Exactly right JWags. Giannis had an unusually poor game (for him). Lillard is a multidimensional scorer and all you need to do is give him the rock up high.
I'm really going to enjoy having Dame here in Milwaukee.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 26, 2023, 09:30:43 PM
Different level. He can score in the h-court and is underrated on the blow-by. That said (I get that it's game 1) the Bucks should be way more efficient in their offensive sets.
New guys, new coach. It's going to take awhile for them to work it out. But last night was really a great example of why they made that trade.
Giannis was way off with his shot yesterday and looked uncomfortable at the line. Hopefully he figures it out but it's a bit of an enigma. Perhaps I should be on the Bucks staff or his personal shooting coach.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 27, 2023, 08:02:28 AM
Giannis was way off with his shot yesterday and looked uncomfortable at the line. Hopefully he figures it out but it's a bit of an enigma. Perhaps I should be on the Bucks staff or his personal shooting coach.
Don't quit your day job at the Pentagon.
Bucks should win 45 games
Quote from: lawdog77 on October 27, 2023, 08:16:31 AM
in a row?
I think 45-37 is about where they finish. Teams will figure them out pretty easy
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 27, 2023, 08:18:18 AM
I think 45-37 is about where they finish. Teams will figure them out pretty easy
If the Bucks only go 45-37, people will lose their sh!t in Wisconsin.
Quote from: lawdog77 on October 27, 2023, 08:31:48 AM
If the Bucks only go 45-37, people will lose their sh!t in Wisconsin.
Rico is just callin balls and strikes, man.
Nah, its just sum folks have mushy, smelly, stuff fore brains, aina?
GIannis needs to slow down in tbe half-court sets when guarded one on one and move the rock when he is doubled. Too much (one speed) balls to the wall attacks vs a set D. No need to be Speedy Gonzalez vs a 6'6 guy in tbe wide post. His passing and decision makingi is critical to the Bucks' maximizing their offense. Way too many out of control turns. There is 0.0 reason for him to force action from the top in their offense. Move tbe basketball and move without the basketball.
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 27, 2023, 08:46:58 AM
GIannis needs to slow down in tbe half-court sets when guarded one on one and move the rock when he is doubled. Too much (one speed) balls to the wall attacks vs a set D. No need to be Speedy Gonzalez vs a 6'6 guy in tbe wide post. His passing and decision makingi is critical to the Bucks' maximizing their offense. Way too many out of control turns. There is 0.0 reason for him to force action from the top in their offense. Move tbe basketball and move without the basketball.
Giannis had a bad game (by his standards, I mean we're still talking about a 23 point, 13 rebound performance) but it is one game. Philly also has PJ Tucker and Embiid, who are two of the only players who I think have a prayer of guarding Giannis effectively. And yesterday showed why the Dame addition was such a good one. When an opponent commits to limiting #34, Dame will eviscerate them.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 27, 2023, 08:44:38 AM
Nah, its just sum folks have mushy, smelly, stuff fore brains, aina?
This is NBA talk, not the dentists crime thread
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 27, 2023, 08:44:38 AM
Nah, its just sum folks have mushy, smelly, stuff fore brains, aina?
Shut up and drill unless you have shooting advice for the MVP
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 27, 2023, 08:18:18 AM
I think 45-37 is about where they finish. Teams will figure them out pretty easy
A lot depends on Griffin, but I think I trend more towards 55-27, give or take.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on October 27, 2023, 08:53:59 AM
Giannis had a bad game (by his standards, I mean we're still talking about a 23 point, 13 rebound performance) but it is one game. Philly also has PJ Tucker and Embiid, who are two of the only players who I think have a prayer of guarding Giannis effectively. And yesterday showed why the Dame addition was such a good one. When an opponent commits to limiting #34, Dame will eviscerate them.
And this is why. I think Lillard's effect on the offense is gonna positively impact Giannis in a variety of ways. Less offensive pressure, more space, etc... They suffer a bit defensively, but last night showed how fast they can flip a game offensively. And Dame is one of the best closers of the last 10-20 years and the Bucks could really use one of those.
I think there will be more up and downs but they are a more fun team swapping Jrue for Dame, and I LOVED Jrue.
One game, and I hope he settles in, but there was some stuff from Griffin I didn't love last night. That said, when they had the regular rotation in place with Khris they had Philly on the ropes. I think it was 55-37 at one point in the second quarter before that small run going into half.
Second half rotation was really puzzling. I get KM is on restricted minutes, but Griffin practically made line changes and the reserves got cooked.
The defense... I don't know. If the plan is to throw a buncha junk at teams to disrupt, they still need to be more solid in a base defense. But their aggressiveness got punished a bunch last night. It was like Bud never left with the amount of open threes they gave up.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on October 27, 2023, 09:24:53 AM
Shut up and drill unless you have shooting advice for the MVP
#34 needs to lock himself in gym and practice free throws 'til he pukes. Oh, and quit shootin' 3's, hey?
I think this is a bigger adjustment for Giannis than it is for Dame (would be for any forward, especially one has ball dominant as Giannis has been). He's getting the ball in different places, seeing defenders in different places and needs to make split decisions. Dame's just hoopin
Watch the film, find your outlet passes - guys are walking wide ass open out there. Also, stop taking 3s - you do not - under any circumstances gotta "keep them honest".
Quote from: lawdog77 on October 27, 2023, 08:31:48 AM
If the Bucks only go 45-37, people will lose their sh!t in Wisconsin.
If the Bulls go 45-37, people in Chicago will lose their sh!t in Chicago.
(in a different way ;))
Can't wait for another season of hearing that Trae Young is disrespected and is truly an elite star/talent...as he starts the season with an all too common combined 8 for 34 from the floor and the Hawks lose two in a row.
Curry is shredding dudes and doing Curry things on ESPN.
yeah, sure...
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 27, 2023, 08:18:18 AM
I think 45-37 is about where they finish. Teams will figure them out pretty easy
Soon to be $200M man Patrick Williams (3/3/1) earns 13 minutes of playing time in an OT game, albeit on an absolutely stacked Bulls roster. ;)
Quote from: JWags85 on October 27, 2023, 08:54:21 PM
Can't wait for another season of hearing that Trae Young is disrespected and is truly an elite star/talent...as he starts the season with an all too common combined 8 for 34 from the floor and the Hawks lose two in a row.
Can't wait for him to go 19-20 against the bucks tomorrow.
After an impressive 0pt, 3reb effort, Pat Williams is trending toward being an ex-Bull and possibly ex-NBA player. Bulls are hinting he is going to the bench soon. Maybe never to be seen again.
I think we can just assume he is bad and I'll do my best to call out any above average play instead. Most likely the this is the last P. Williams post on Scoop.
Hard for anybody else to score any points when LaVine is shooting every time he crosses midcourt.
(But I actually agree with you about Pat Williams.)
What a mess the Bulls are.
I'll admit I was wrong about Holmgren. I'm watching Denver/OKC and he looks fantastic. Tremendously skilled offensive game. This OKC team may make some noise this year. They have four really good young players.
.
Wrong thread?
Meanwhile Jokic is completely dominant. The guy is incredible. You never see him make bad decisions.
Jokic doesn't look like he's in tip-top condition yet but man......the guy is filthy good. 22 pts, 9 rebs, 5 dimes in tbe 1st half. He seems to be separating himself from Embiid and Giannis. He's not as good defensively but he's significantly better offensively. And it's basketball 101 really. If he's guarded one on one he schools dudes on the block or on the pick and pop. If he's doubled he shreds the defense with his passing abilities. The only 5 who may be as skilled (offensively) is Hakeem but Jokic is a load and more dangerous dropping dimes. Truthfully I don't think Jokic is playing with great complimentary players other than Murray.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 29, 2023, 08:26:38 AM
After an impressive 0pt, 3reb effort, Pat Williams is trending toward being an ex-Bull and possibly ex-NBA player. Bulls are hinting he is going to the bench soon. Maybe never to be seen again.
I think we can just assume he is bad and I'll do my best to call out any above average play instead. Most likely the this is the last P. Williams post on Scoop.
I'll bet the over on your Patrick Williams posts on Scoops at 0.5.
The Sixers sitting Embiid for load management for their home opener is interesting.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 29, 2023, 04:04:56 PM
The Sixers sitting Embiid for load management for their home opener is interesting.
Dame and Giannis better be playing tonight.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 29, 2023, 04:04:56 PM
The Sixers sitting Embiid for load management for their home opener is interesting.
I thought the NBA was cracking down on that?
The Bucks have allowed 24 pts in 7 mins? WTF?
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 29, 2023, 06:28:46 PM
The Bucks have allowed 24 pts in 7 mins? WTF?
And then only gave up 7 more in the next 8 minutes.
Runs happen. Especially in game 2 of a season with a ton of last year's minutes gone. It's okay.
Quote from: wadesworld on October 29, 2023, 06:52:39 PM
And then only gave up 7 more in the next 8 minutes.
Runs happen. Especially in game 2 of a season with a ton of last year's minutes gone. It's okay.
They read my post?
Bur I see they're down 15. Does Griffin seem competent?
Their perimeter defense is...not great right now.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 29, 2023, 07:05:34 PM
Their perimeter defense is...not great right now.
And apparently their offense isn't either. Auxiliary coaching options?
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 29, 2023, 07:06:32 PM
And apparently their offense isn't either. Auxiliary coaching options?
Really growing weary of your over-the-top commentary in every topic.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 29, 2023, 07:07:49 PM
Really growing weary of your over-the-top commentary in every topic.
We all appreciate you growing weary.
Giving up 68 is a lot in 24 mins.
8 Hawks in double figures through 3 quarters.
Dame having perhaps the worst game of his career.
113 pts allowed with 9 mins left in the 4Q?
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on October 29, 2023, 07:05:34 PM
Their perimeter defense is...not great right now.
There's a reason teams don't play this aggressively in their base halfcourt defense.
So far they've played one good quarter out of 8. Not good.
Quote from: MUfan12 on October 29, 2023, 08:19:38 PM
There's a reason teams don't play this aggressively in their base halfcourt defense.
So far they've played one good quarter out of 8. Not good.
Are they overpressuring and autoswitching? That always drove me up the wall with Wojo.
Wembanyama with 11 points, 5 turnovers as Spurs get blown out by the Clippers.
45 wins might have been too optimistic
Fookin' disgustin'. Bucks should be ashamed of themselves for givin' this clown an audience, hey?
https://twitter.com/SweetCarmel77/status/1718781734903308709?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1718781734903308709%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=about%3Ablank
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 30, 2023, 10:13:44 AM
Fookin' disgustin'. Bucks should be ashamed of themselves for givin' this clown an audience, hey?
https://twitter.com/SweetCarmel77/status/1718781734903308709?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1718781734903308709%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=about%3Ablank
He did a pretty good job with the song, what'd he do otherwise?
Privilege is having enough time, energy, and comfort to actually be bothered by who sung the national anthem for a meaningless regular season NBA game.
There was better talent on The Gong Show, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 30, 2023, 10:22:20 AM
There was better talent on The Gong Show, hey?
I haven't seen an episode of the Gong Show since about 1978, so I'll trust you on that one.
He did fine.
I like the idea of local celebrities or d-listers coming out and having a crack at the anthem. You don't need to be the best singer in the world to belt out your national pride.
Add a ranking system like Top Gear's lap in a reasonably priced car
This is the best idea I've had all morning. Gonna call it a day
An NBA writer at The Athletic is calling this 70-foot alley-oop pass from Jokic to Aaron Gordon "the best pass I've ever seen."
https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1718071870975594715?s=20
Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 30, 2023, 10:26:59 AM
I like the idea of local celebrities or d-listers coming out and having a crack at the anthem. You don't need to be the best singer in the world to belt out your national pride.
Add a ranking system like Top Gear's lap in a reasonably priced car
This is the best idea I've had all morning. Gonna call it a day
Rest up for tomorrow. Maybe you'll have another one.
Quote from: MU82 on October 30, 2023, 12:05:17 PM
An NBA writer at The Athletic is calling this 70-foot alley-oop pass from Jokic to Aaron Gordon "the best pass I've ever seen."
https://twitter.com/NBA/status/1718071870975594715?s=20
That is a pretty amazing pass.
However, this writer must not have seen MU vs Grambling on November 12, 2013, otherwise known as the birthdate of Magic Dawson.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on October 30, 2023, 12:21:20 PM
That is a pretty amazing pass.
However, this writer must not have seen MU vs Grambling on November 12, 2013, otherwise known as the birthdate of Magic Dawson.
You win. Shut the thread down.
Another Wolves/Hawks game I flip to. Another game where the Wolves score at will anytime Young is on the court.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on October 30, 2023, 07:47:50 PM
Another Wolves/Hawks game I flip to. Another game where the Wolves score at will anytime Young is on the court.
Went back to baseball, I might have all time jinxed this.
Tho to be fair Young is still a minus +/- even with Hawks rolling the second half.
Curry with another 40 pt game. 15-22 and 7 triples.
Harden to the Clippers.
Quote from: tower912 on October 31, 2023, 06:17:04 AM
Harden to the Clippers.
I'm shocked how well Philly did in that trade. Kudos to them.
I guess it's just the Clippers being Clippers.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 31, 2023, 08:47:27 AM
I'm shocked how well Philly did in that trade. Kudos to them.
I guess it's just the Clippers being Clippers.
And for Harden he gets to live in LA without the pressure of playing for the Lakers. Pretty good deal if you're insistent on coasting for the rest of your career.
Pretty sure Harden, PG, Leonard, and Westbrook are all FAs after this year. And they basically have no good draft picks for like 5 years.
LA is a Lebron retirement/continued brittle AD away from having 2 mediocre teams
Wemby needs to lower his dribble.
Fun finish to the first half. Durant dunked right in Wembanyama's face ... and then in the very next sequence, Wembanyama went around KD and dunked on the entire Phoenix team.
Suns are killing the Spurs at halftime, though; that dunk was Wemby's first hoop of the game.
Wemby is at least a full year away. Eventually he'll get there but this will be a year primarily of learning. The Spurs are brutally bad. I would like to see him play a little closer to the rim.
Nice little sequence from Wemby.
Wow! One of the craziest games I've ever seen!
Quote from: MuggsyB on October 31, 2023, 10:18:56 PM
Wemby is at least a full year away. Eventually he'll get there but this will be a year primarily of learning. The Spurs are brutally bad. I would like to see him play a little closer to the rim.
A year away from what? Turnovers and 3 point shooting are the only thing to complain much about right now. But he's already averaging 16, 8, and 2 and is All Defense good on the other side of the court.
The Bucks are down 66-44 at the half!!! To Toronto!! Toronto!! WTH is going on?
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 01, 2023, 07:15:15 PM
The Bucks are down 66-44 at the half!!! To Toronto!! Toronto!! WTH is going on?
They're losing
Coach sucks and #34 duzant know how to play without being the alpha dog, aina?
Bring back Budenholzer!
#22 is over da hill. Gave him the bag, bad knees and all, hey?
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 01, 2023, 07:15:15 PM
The Bucks are down 66-44 at the half!!! To Toronto!! Toronto!! WTH is going on?
Yeah. It's the end of the world.
And the Celtics may be the greatest team ever.
I know it's only game four but this seems concerning.
Ohhmmmmm
They don't seem to play any defense which is alarming.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on October 30, 2023, 12:21:20 PM
That is a pretty amazing pass.
However, this writer must not have seen MU vs Grambling on November 12, 2013, otherwise known as the birthdate of Magic Dawson.
Magic Dawson became a thing when I christened him as such during a back and forth with Ners.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 01, 2023, 07:41:37 PM
I know it's only game four but this seems concerning.
are we really going to do this for another whole season?
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on November 01, 2023, 09:32:06 PM
are we really going to do this for another whole season?
As a Bulls fan, I say to Bucks fans R-E-L-A-X.
Yes, it's early. But they look awful.
I know Bud was a head coach before, but look at how they started when he took over. It was night and day from Kidd. Nothing revolutionary in terms of tactics, but he was able to communicate what he wanted, had a veteran team, and they executed.
This is the risk of hiring a guy who has never been in the big chair. Doing it with a championship level roster was a massive gamble. I'll give it some time, but this has not been a good start for Griffin.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 01, 2023, 07:41:15 PM
#22 is over da hill. Gave him the bag, bad knees and all, hey?
Been saying it for a while, Middleton is washed.
How many more Ls until Dame writes a letter?
Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 02, 2023, 09:19:20 AM
How many more Ls until Dame writes a letter?
Probably if they lose to the Heat.
Quote from: MUfan12 on November 01, 2023, 10:16:26 PM
Yes, it's early. But they look awful.
I know Bud was a head coach before, but look at how they started when he took over. It was night and day from Kidd. Nothing revolutionary in terms of tactics, but he was able to communicate what he wanted, had a veteran team, and they executed.
This is the risk of hiring a guy who has never been in the big chair. Doing it with a championship level roster was a massive gamble. I'll give it some time, but this has not been a good start for Griffin.
What would you do if you were the HC? It seems to me their defense is a disaster.
Big half for Wemby.
Wemby dropped 38 on 15-26, 3-6 fom distance. Uh....the thought of this kid in a year or so has to be very unsettling for the rest of the NBA. Look the F out when he gets stronger and more comfortable. Durant looks small next to him.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 03, 2023, 06:40:31 AM
Wemby dropped 38 on 15-26, 3-6 fom distance. Uh....the thought of this kid in a year or so has to be very unsettling for the rest of the NBA. Look the F out when he gets stronger and more comfortable. Durant looks small next to him.
He's going to be the best player in the world sooner than later. Smooth, skilled, savvy.
Also, the global game is in an incredible spot right now. Best players in the world are from France, Serbia and Greece. Throw in Doncic from Slovenia and it's clear the NBA's global outreach that began in the 80's might be David Stern's greatest legacy.
I didn't see the game but I just went back and watched the highlights. Wow ... impressive is an understatement.
Bummed that the Hornets didn't win the lottery, but they probably would have found a way to screw it up. He's in a good spot with Pop, and it's fun to watch the kid do that kind of video-game stuff in an NBA game.
If Wemby stays healthy, he could join and maybe even surpass Jordan, King James, and Kareem. That looks like a future top 5 player to me.
Jokic only had 33, 14, and 9 yesterday on 14-16 from the field. I don't get the narrative that he's not fun to watch.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 04, 2023, 08:50:34 AM
Jokic only had 33, 14, and 9 yesterday on 14-16 from the field. I don't get the narrative that he's not fun to watch.
Whoever says that is insane
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 04, 2023, 08:53:16 AM
Whoever says that is insane
[/quote
Obviously Perk got some backlash for his idiotic comments but there were a lot of people on ESPN that played the "he's not exciting" card. Right now he's separated himself as clearly the best player in the league imo.
When I watch Giannis I'm concerned a little bit because he still really hasn't learned how to play in the half-court with any consistency. What makes Jokic so special is he sees the floor and makes the right decision with the ball instantaneously. He can score pretty much at will one on one once he catches it at the FT line or mid-post. What's crazier is he's probably a better passer than scorer.
He's as fundamentally sound as Duncan but with better touch and range. I think he's the best offensive big I've ever seen. You can't overstate how critical his passing abilities are towards their success. He truly makes guys around him better, much better.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 04, 2023, 08:53:16 AM
Whoever says that is insane
He's like watching a middle aged guy at the YMCA play.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 04, 2023, 10:35:48 AM
He's like watching a middle aged guy at the YMCA play AGAINST 10 YEAR OLDS.
fify
Quote from: tower912 on November 04, 2023, 10:36:48 AM
fify
How do the shots all go in? How are all of his passes on target? He's not even moving that much but he in control of the game somehow? Dominant old guy energy
Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 04, 2023, 11:12:50 AM
How do the shots all go in? How are all of his passes on target? He's not even moving that much but he in control of the game somehow? Dominant old guy energy
He's 28! He actually has pretty good wheels for a man his size.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 04, 2023, 08:50:34 AM
Jokic only had 33, 14, and 9 yesterday on 14-16 from the field. I don't get the narrative that he's not fun to watch.
Dog whistle code for 'white'.
https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1720867798568907096?t=Wmp2Y_Cl86zUWLvCsGgoPQ&s=19
Haha Embiid is a joke. Throws an elbow and acts like a truck ran him over.
I guess Jokic is having an off night with the back to back. He only 9-16, 28 pts, 14 rebs, and 7 dimes.
I don't know anything about this business but how much would you pay for a Wemby rookie card?
If he were a rookie in 1974 and the lone card-maker still were Topps, plenty.
But there are a bazillion "rookie cards" now, and I wouldn't pay for any of them unless I happened to simply want to own one.
Could one or two turn out to be an "investment"? Maybe. Good luck figuring out which one or two.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 05, 2023, 10:47:45 AM
I don't know anything about this business but how much would you pay for a Wemby rookie card?
Given what you lead in with, zero.
If you want it as a personal collectible, then whatever you're comfortable with. As a flip/investment value, don't go swimming with sharks
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 05, 2023, 10:47:45 AM
I don't know anything about this business but how much would you pay for a Wemby rookie card?
a buck and hope it's worth five in 40 years.
James Harden makes his Clippers debut tonight, and he reportedly will start alongside the team's other former All-Stars.
Harden. Westbrook. Leonard. George. One basketball. Should be fun!
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 05, 2023, 10:47:45 AM
I don't know anything about this business but how much would you pay for a Wemby rookie card?
None, Sam Backman Fried served as notary on my Wemby NFT
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 05, 2023, 10:47:45 AM
I don't know anything about this business but how much would you pay for a Wemby rookie card?
Muggsy, did you not take the advice given?
https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/san-antonio-spurs-exclusive-victor-wembanyama-rookie-card-auction-ken-goldin-king-of-collectibles-impact-potential#:~:text=In%20one%20of%20Goldin%20Auctions,makes%20this%20card%20so%20valuable%3F (https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/san-antonio-spurs-exclusive-victor-wembanyama-rookie-card-auction-ken-goldin-king-of-collectibles-impact-potential#:~:text=In%20one%20of%20Goldin%20Auctions,makes%20this%20card%20so%20valuable%3F)
As someone said - avoid the new cards. Luck is never a good strategy.
If you want to invest in cards, buy up solid Mickey Mantle cards from the 50s and 60s.
He has driven the card market for many decades and I don't see it changing.
Quote from: Jockey on November 06, 2023, 04:56:34 PM
As someone said - avoid the new cards. Luck is never a good strategy.
If you want to invest in cards, buy up solid Mickey Mantle cards from the 50s and 60s.
He has driven the card market for many decades and I don't see it changing.
Being a Sox fan, trading my Honus Wagner for a rookie Ron Kittle straight up was like taking candy from a baby.
Quote from: Jockey on November 06, 2023, 04:56:34 PM
As someone said - avoid the new cards. Luck is never a good strategy.
If you want to invest in cards, buy up solid Mickey Mantle cards from the 50s and 60s.
He has driven the card market for many decades and I don't see it changing.
Or buy Pokemon cards.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on November 06, 2023, 06:55:45 PM
Or buy Pokemon cards.
Should I sell my beenie baby collection to buy these?
I have some NFT's that I am sure are worth something.
Another boring game for Jokic. He only had 35, 14, and 12. The guy is phenomenal.
LeBron is averaging 36 min/game. No missed games. Is this sustainable if the Lakers want to make noise in the playoffs?
I guess you could say it has to be if the Lakers want to make the playoffs.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 07, 2023, 02:19:29 PM
LeBron is averaging 36 min/game. No missed games. Is this sustainable if the Lakers want to make noise in the playoffs?
I guess you could say it has to be if the Lakers want to make the playoffs.
He's a freak - but, no it is not sustainable.
Philly is a better team without Harden.
Refs got the under in the Bucks game
Quote from: GB Warrior on November 08, 2023, 08:41:13 PM
Refs got the under in the Bucks game
Good Grief. Bucks are down 8 at home to Detroit? 95 pts allowed in 3Q??? WTF?
SGA is going bananas. 38 through 3Q.
Bucks should play under protest. Shameful officiating. Pistons have had multiple demonstrations worse than what got Giannis ejected.
Quote from: GB Warrior on November 08, 2023, 09:07:57 PM
Bucks should play under protest. Shameful officiating. Pistons have had multiple demonstrations worse than what got Giannis ejected.
Oh....I didn't realize Giannis was ejected. Damn.
The ref that T'd up Giannis on the dunk should be suspended...
Maxey is a total stud. Hard not to like that kid. He has serious zoomability.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 09, 2023, 08:12:47 AM
Maxey is a total stud. Hard not to like that kid. He has serious zoomability.
I don't like him
So, is this Bucks team ever going to defense, hey?
Charmin-soft Tyler Herro out again with injury. The Heat got better after he got hurt last season.
Imagine if Giannis had a bag
What happened to Lillard?
Very frustrating last 4 mins for the Bucks.
Bucks will win a lot of games and be fun, but they're not winning a title if this doesn't get fixed (It won't)
https://x.com/bucksfilmroom/status/1722962242046468583?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 10, 2023, 09:03:49 AM
Bucks will win a lot of games and be fun, but they're not winning a title if this doesn't get fixed (It won't)
https://x.com/bucksfilmroom/status/1722962242046468583?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
That is horrible. :o
The whole staff stinks. Prunty was brutal last night after Griffin got tossed.
I know he's used Brook in drop more, but last night he's guarding Haliburton on the perimeter down the stretch. Indiana is basically playing 5 out the last 8 minutes. The Bucks built a lead with Bobby and Crowder on the floor, and Prunty brings in Beasley and Payne, two minus defenders, to close the game.
Still seeing too much stubbornness with the defense. This is an old team with some mediocre/bad defenders. Gotta find ways to contain and not extend them too far.
The above comments are 100% correct. I watched part of the 3rd and 4th quarter last night. This team is an unmitigated disaster defensively, including their rebounding. Slow to react, marginal box outs, and they look like they're on skates vs the dribble drive. You're not doing diddly squat come playoff time if you can't get a stop. I believe they were up 117-109 with about 4:15 to play. Indiana proceeded to score on every possession while the Bucks could not execute at all in their half-court offense. They better make some changes to whatever their philosophy is because tbe result of their putrid defense will be death.
I think they can overcome a middling defense if the offense isn't so labored. And a big part of that is 34 realizing he doesn't need to initiate the offense.
https://youtu.be/fE3_WfFei00?si=J72Q7JJwrJ34D28C
lol.
Bucks suck, hey?
They might need to give Bud Craig Counsell money to come back midseason
It's obviously early but the Bucks have simply not been very good. It's easy to blame the new coach, and he may be terrible, but the players have to step up. From what I've seen Middleton is nowhere close to being what he was, Lopez may be feeling his age, and most importantly their individual, transition, and collective defense has been down right atrocious. And that includes every guy on the floor. Maybe this motivates them but they need to figure out how to defend for starters. Two other glaring stats are they are 29th in rebounding and 28th in assists. In closing they have a lot or work to do.
See what they can get from the Heat for Lillard. Peddle his azz!
Quote from: Silkk the Shaka on November 12, 2023, 01:11:19 AM
See what they can get from the Heat for Lillard. Peddle his azz!
I'd rather the Heat keep Herro. Getting better every year, and he plays hungry
Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 12, 2023, 04:55:37 AM
I'd rather the Heat keep Herro. Getting better every year, and he plays hungry
Lol. Ok.
Griffin wuz a terrible choice. But #34 picked 'im. Defense and reboundin' sucks, aina.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on November 12, 2023, 04:55:37 AM
I'd rather the Heat keep Herro. Getting better every year, and he plays hungry
I think fans of every other team in the NBA would also prefer the Heat keep Herro. And probably most front offices, especially with that contract.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 12, 2023, 08:46:30 AM
I think fans of every other team in the NBA would also prefer the Heat keep Herro. And probably most front offices, especially with that contract.
Dentists disagree
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 12, 2023, 05:08:27 AM
Lol. Ok.
Devils advocate, he's not entirely wrong about Herro. He's 23, currently averaging 23/5/5 on 45/41/90 splits. That's pretty f-ing great for 23. If it was Herro for Dame straight up, then of course you take Dame. But Herro plus a bunch of other assets and picks, I don't totally fault Heat fans not wanting to lose Herro as a big piece.
And is that contract THAT bad really? Maybe for trading purposes, but Devin Vassell just got $29/MM a year, same age but markedly inferior statistics. Cam Johnson just got $25/MM a year and he's way behind Herro production wise.
I know Herro is a regular punching bag here. But he gets talked about like a late 20s dude averaging 15 a game. I obviously don't think he's a super max player, but I don't think he's an overpaid joke either and I think he's a very good fit for that team.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 12, 2023, 09:37:54 AM
Devils advocate, he's not entirely wrong about Herro. He's 23, currently averaging 23/5/5 on 45/41/90 splits. That's pretty f-ing great for 23. If it was Herro for Dame straight up, then of course you take Dame. But Herro plus a bunch of other assets and picks, I don't totally fault Heat fans not wanting to lose Herro as a big piece.
And is that contract THAT bad really? Maybe for trading purposes, but Devin Vassell just got $29/MM a year, same age but markedly inferior statistics. Cam Johnson just got $25/MM a year and he's way behind Herro production wise.
I know Herro is a regular punching bag here. But he gets talked about like a late 20s dude averaging 15 a game. I obviously don't think he's a super max player, but I don't think he's an overpaid joke either and I think he's a very good fit for that team.
This is fair
Quote from: JWags85 on November 12, 2023, 09:37:54 AM
Devils advocate, he's not entirely wrong about Herro. He's 23, currently averaging 23/5/5 on 45/41/90 splits. That's pretty f-ing great for 23. If it was Herro for Dame straight up, then of course you take Dame. But Herro plus a bunch of other assets and picks, I don't totally fault Heat fans not wanting to lose Herro as a big piece.
And is that contract THAT bad really? Maybe for trading purposes, but Devin Vassell just got $29/MM a year, same age but markedly inferior statistics. Cam Johnson just got $25/MM a year and he's way behind Herro production wise.
I know Herro is a regular punching bag here. But he gets talked about like a late 20s dude averaging 15 a game. I obviously don't think he's a super max player, but I don't think he's an overpaid joke either and I think he's a very good fit for that team.
He's a very good offensive player who shows zero interest (or ability) in defending anyone. Luckily for him it's the perfect spot where Bam, Jimmy, and the coaching staff can help cover that up.
But there's a reason that even with his good offensive production the Heat still stink offensively until Jimmy puts the team on his back in the Playoffs. Herro would be better as an off ball shooter who attacks closeouts than the featured offensive play maker. Aka the Heat's offense in the regular season vs. post season.
Him and Poole are one and the same.
Hellofa playa, hey?
Quote from: wadesworld on November 12, 2023, 09:45:05 AM
He's a very good offensive player who shows zero interest (or ability) in defending anyone. Luckily for him it's the perfect spot where Bam, Jimmy, and the coaching staff can help cover that up.
I don't disagree, but thats hardly unique to him. A LOT of 2nd/3rd tier level "stars" like that, unfortunately. But thats part of the reason I said he's a great fit in Miami, cause of what you alluded to.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 12, 2023, 09:45:05 AM
Him and Poole are one and the same.
Now that I disagree with, to some extent. Defensively, sure, but I think Herro is a more complete player.
Career splits..
Herro: 18/5/4 on 45/39/88 shooting
Poole: 16/3/3 on 42/33/88 shooting
But the difference for me.
Number of games in 2022-2023 with under 40% shooting on more than 15 attempts?
Herro: 9
Poole: 24, already 4 this season.
Poole is far more likely to shoot you out of a game. If you go more than 10 or 12, it gets WAY worse for Poole. Some of it is obviously coaching, but I think Herro has a better sense of playing within the game and not chucking than Poole does.
I think Poole has hit his ceiling, I think Herro still has a bit more ceiling. Whats funny is I think Poole's natural ceiling is higher due to his speed and athleticism, but he doesn't show a lot of interest in being more than Nick Young 2.0, especially now that he's on a bad team.
Speaking of dumpster fires......Memphis just beat the Clippers in LA. :)
Will Harden ask to be traded by Thanksgiving?
I woodant give a drumstick, pecan pie, or sweet potato stuffin' fore hiz arrogant ass, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 12, 2023, 05:50:41 PM
I woodant give a drumstick, pecan pie, or sweet potato stuffin' fore hiz arrogant ass, hey?
LOL! Meanwhile Maxey has 21pts, on 9-11 shooting,with 7 mins left in the 2Q. Talk about addition by subtraction. I like guys with zoomability. :)
Jae Crowder out two months after having abductor surgery
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 12, 2023, 05:50:41 PM
I woodant give a drumstick, pecan pie, or sweet potato stuffin' fore hiz arrogant ass, hey?
76'ers seem better without the bearded dude. maxey just dumped 50 on the pacers
hardon who?
Quote from: rocket surgeon on November 13, 2023, 05:24:09 PM
76'ers seem better without the bearded dude. maxey just dumped 50 on the pacers
hardon who?
You when you see Joy Behar?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 13, 2023, 05:26:19 PM
You when you see Joy Behar?
looks like nina agdal at closing time though
Once again hilarious seeing Steve Kerr defend some dirty Draymond Green decision
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on November 15, 2023, 08:06:20 AM
Once again hilarious seeing Steve Kerr defend some dirty Draymond Green decision
I don't think it was "dirty" per se, I just think it was hilariously random. Like Draymond saw the scuffle as his chance to assert dominance over Gobert. If he laid him out or looked to hurt him in any way, thats dirty. It was a headlock for gods sake. It was dumb and he deserved to be tossed and fined, but im not clutchin pearls.
Meanwhile, the Clippers are already doing Clippers stuff. Down 3 with 15 seconds, plenty of time in the modern NBA to even get a quick 2 and foul, much less draw up a great play for 3. Actually have momentum after Leonard wakes up from sleepwalking all game to get a steal and cut it to one. In-bound, 2 guys standing in the corner, half baked maneuvering leads to a hand off to Paul George, tightly guarded, and he basically jab steps and isos before jacking up a contested 3 that sticks at the rim for a jump ball at center court. L..O...L
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on November 15, 2023, 08:06:20 AM
Once again hilarious seeing Steve Kerr defend some dirty Draymond Green decision
Steve is a great coach. I'd love to have him on my bench. But, he doesn't strike me as a particularly bright guy.
Draymond has issues. Rodman had issues. His emotions have served him well on the whole but you have to put up with the BS. It was bush league stuff, as always, and it will cost him money and games as it should.
"Steve Kerr is stoopid" is an interesting take.
Quote from: MU82 on November 15, 2023, 10:30:57 AM
"Steve Kerr is stoopid" is an interesting take.
Everything is either black or white? How's that working out for you?
Kerr is too woke.
Steve Kerr is not a "particularly bright guy" might be one of the oddest things I have read here in awhile. It pretty much goes against everything I have heard about him.
He's just defending his guy. That's what coaches do.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 15, 2023, 10:54:57 AM
Steve Kerr is not a "particularly bright guy" might be one of the oddest things I have read here in awhile. It pretty much goes against everything I have heard about him.
He's just defending his guy. That's what coaches do.
You're reading way to much into a single comment. I said he is great. I said I want him as my team's coach. I was a season ticket holder in the Jordan years and love Steve.
A basketball coach not being a generally bright guy is not close to calling him dumb. And it is not that unusual for a high profile coach in most sports. (Ditka, Izzo, etc.)
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 15, 2023, 11:50:14 AM
You're reading way to much into a single comment. I said he is great. I said I want him as my team's coach. I was a season ticket holder in the Jordan years and love Steve.
A basketball coach not being a generally bright guy is not close to calling him dumb. And it is not that unusual for a high profile coach in most sports. (Ditka, Izzo, etc.)
What makes you think he isn't "generally a bright guy?"
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 15, 2023, 10:54:57 AM
Steve Kerr is not a "particularly bright guy" might be one of the oddest things I have read here in awhile. It pretty much goes against everything I have heard about him.
He's just defending his guy. That's what coaches do.
Yeah I'm gonna trend more towards general coach speak as opposed to thinking the grandson of a prominent biochemisty, the son of a respected academic and university professor, and a guy who was actively involved in a bunch of different things off the court, including writing columns and ownership groups, before becoming a coach...isn't too bright. Comparing him to Ditka or a guy like Izzo (who has spent his entire life in a Michigan bubble) is wild.
Don't think you can call Kerr anything of the dumb sort
But hes clearly a sh itbag.
I just saw the highlights. Forget constantly putting up with Draymond being a danger to others and overall trash can person but his lies of what happened in a video we all have eyes and can see, was something a psycho would do.
He tried to act like Klay was a victim and Draymond was the hero.
Klay started the whole thing there is literal video showing it. And he made up out of thin air that Rudy was the first choker and Draymond went full superman to save the day. Lunatic.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 15, 2023, 10:47:31 AM
Everything is either black or white? How's that working out for you?
I guess I just found your comment to be not extremely bright.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on November 15, 2023, 01:35:28 PM
Don't think you can call Kerr anything of the dumb sort
But hes clearly a sh itbag.
I just saw the highlights. Forget constantly putting up with Draymond being a danger to others and overall trash can person but his lies of what happened in a video we all have eyes and can see, was something a psycho would do.
He tried to act like Klay was a victim and Draymond was the hero.
Klay started the whole thing there is literal video showing it. And he made up out of thin air that Rudy was the first choker and Draymond went full superman to save the day. Lunatic.
I couldn't agree more. And Green's act has been wearing thinner and thinner. I've said for years I hope someone like Steven Adams levels him.
Trade Giannis amirite
Green got 5 games. LOL.
Quote from: MU82 on November 15, 2023, 07:35:22 PM
I guess I just found your comment to be not extremely bright.
That's fair.
This Oubre story is rather bizarre. Police say there's no evidence of a hit and run. That said why would anyone make this up?
Quote from: BM1090 on November 15, 2023, 08:37:39 PM
Seems fair to me.
Agreed. I was just thinking how stupid his reaction was.
Boston won in Philly without Brown or Porzingas. Uh-Oh?
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 15, 2023, 08:54:05 PM
Boston won in Philly without Brown or Porzingas. Uh-Oh?
Crown em.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 15, 2023, 08:54:05 PM
Boston won in Philly without Brown or Porzingas. Uh-Oh?
Bucks won in Toronto without Giannis. Uh oh?
Dame looked a lot like Kolek out there tonight.
Hearing many teams are scouting Bulls games. The Bucks should put together a shopping list.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 15, 2023, 10:03:00 PM
Hearing many teams are scouting Bulls games. The Bucks should put together a shopping list.
With all the assets and decent sized salary they have available to trade.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 15, 2023, 10:03:49 PM
With all the assets and decent sized salary they have available to trade.
I honestly don't know the Bucks situation. I wouldn't give up hope; the Bulls front office isn't exactly a bunch of Jerry Wests.
ESPN's studio NBA people are bad. And by bad I mean a total abomination. Give TNT every game.
I'm not saying I'm always right when projecting NBA guys, but I do remember being dumbfounded that Ball and Fultz were universally regarded as better prospects than De'Aaron Fox. I couldn't figure that one out at all.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 15, 2023, 10:36:59 PM
I'm not saying I'm always right when projecting NBA guys, but I do remember being dumbfounded that Ball and Fultz were universally regarded as better prospects than De'Aaron Fox. I couldn't figure that one out at all.
Fox is a score first PG who isn't a great distributor and still doesn't have a reliable outside shot. He plays for a great team for a skill set like his, but if he wasn't on a team averaging 120 points a game, he would be a 16/3/3 sort of player with bad shooting splits. There is a reason he hasn't been an All Star.
Ball got unfairly judged because of his father, so unless he was a mega star from the jump he had haters cackling...and he also got tossed into a bad situation in LA with Lebron arriving. Then the injuries. His last season in NO he put up 15/6/5 and shot nearly 40% from deep after reworking his shot, plus he's a very good defender. If not for injuries, he was on the cusp of being an elite PG, not combo/scoring guard, but a true PG who could also score when needed.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 15, 2023, 08:34:18 PM
This Oubre story is rather bizarre. Police say there's no evidence of a hit and run. That said why would anyone make this up?
I didn't see that the police said "no evidence" just that there's "no video or photographic evidence that depicts this collision". Unless I'm misunderstanding, all that might mean is that the accident occurred in place not captured by security/traffic cameras. I'm not familiar with the area so I don't know how many blind spots there are.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 16, 2023, 01:10:14 AM
I didn't see that the police said "no evidence" just that there's "no video or photographic evidence that depicts this collision". Unless I'm misunderstanding, all that might mean is that the accident occurred in place not captured by security/traffic cameras. I'm not familiar with the area so I don't know how many blind spots there are.
And somehow f'ing TMZ got his damn Ring Cam footage as he arrives home
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on November 16, 2023, 01:10:14 AM
I didn't see that the police said "no evidence" just that there's "no video or photographic evidence that depicts this collision". Unless I'm misunderstanding, all that might mean is that the accident occurred in place not captured by security/traffic cameras. I'm not familiar with the area so I don't know how many blind spots there are.
You're right that its about video evidence but there has been insinuations that have begun about him making up the story entirely it appears.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38908591/police-say-no-video-evidence-found-alleged-hit-run-involving-sixers-kelly-oubre
Ive barely paid attention to the story but looking at it, does seem pretty bizarre that there is already some belief he might be making it up completely and also why he would do that.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on November 16, 2023, 09:09:20 AM
You're right that its about video evidence but there has been insinuations that have begun about him making up the story entirely it appears.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38908591/police-say-no-video-evidence-found-alleged-hit-run-involving-sixers-kelly-oubre
Ive barely paid attention to the story but looking at it, does seem pretty bizarre that there is already some belief he might be making it up completely and also why he would do that.
If he's walking into his apartment with a bike, maybe he got hurt on his bike and there's something in his contract on injuries from certain things.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 16, 2023, 10:02:05 AM
If he's walking into his apartment with a bike, maybe he got hurt on his bike and there's something in his contract on injuries from certain things.
This.
Was surprised to see a dominating Bucks team last night. Was surprised to see that their record's 8-4.
Given some of the talk here, I thought they were gonna be something like 3-8 and look horrendous.
Like the Hornets.
Quote from: MU82 on November 18, 2023, 07:08:55 AM
Was surprised to see a dominating Bucks team last night. Was surprised to see that their record's 8-4.
Given some of the talk here, I thought they were gonna be something like 3-8 and look horrendous.
Like the Hornets.
Well, when you read Dr. Mope, the world is always burning
Sez da ray of sunshine in a thunderstorm. Right back at ya, hey?
Quote from: MU82 on November 18, 2023, 07:08:55 AM
Was surprised to see a dominating Bucks team last night. Was surprised to see that their record's 8-4.
Given some of the talk here, I thought they were gonna be something like 3-8 and look horrendous.
Like the Hornets.
Can we glean anything from the Hornets getting pummeled?
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 18, 2023, 10:51:18 AM
Can we glean anything from the Hornets getting pummeled?
Nope. It's 12 games into the season, and a team like the Milwaukee has an entirely new dynamic to figure out. It's too early to glean anything from anything.
(Actually, we can pretty confidently glean that the Hornets are still the Hornets - overpaying for lots, contending for zippo.)
A year ago, you had proclaimed the Celtics to be the next superteam. They weren't. Maybe they still can be. Maybe not.
A dozen or so games are in the books for each team. The season still has forever to go.
Jimmy is shooting 47%+ from 3 this year. No way it's a fluke
Bucks suck
Quote from: GB Warrior on November 18, 2023, 09:20:19 PM
Bucks suck
I forgot they played tonight.
<checks score>
🙄🙄🙄
Sounds like a fun game at Fiserv. I'm not sure Dallas is much of a contender. They have nothing inside and basically will have to go bananas from distance because they're mediocre defensively.
Are Klay Thompson or Wiggins movable? The Dubs desperately need a big.
Holmgren is the real deal. I was dead wrong about his readiness for the NBA.
I see the Bulls were about 3,000 shy of a sellout. Saturday against Miami. That's not good.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 18, 2023, 11:15:36 PM
I see the Bulls were about 3,000 shy of a sellout. Saturday against Miami. That's not good.
Sleeping giant.
With Zach LaVine expressing a desire to be traded, there are few intersting options being thrown out. I kind of like LaVine for Klay Thompson and picks. That gets the Bulls out of a terrible contract and some picks.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 19, 2023, 12:59:57 PM
With Zach LaVine expressing a desire to be traded, there are few intersting options being thrown out. I kind of like LaVine for Klay Thompson and picks. That gets the Bulls out of a terrible contract and some picks.
Interesting.....is Klay's contract expiring?
Antetokounmpo-Lillard crunchtime partnership in win over Mavs exactly what was feared by NBA
https://theathletic.com/5074575/2023/11/19/giannis-lillard-bucks-mavs/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=8282443
MILWAUKEE — For 43 minutes on Saturday, the Dallas Mavericks did everything they could to slow down Giannis Antetokounmpo. And for 43 minutes, they never really found a good answer to their problem.
He knocked down a pair of free throws with a little more than five minutes left to up his scoring to 38 points. By then the seven-time All-Star had made 17 of his 27 shots and scored 32 points in the paint in helping create a one-point lead. He also had tallied seven assists. And yet, with the game still in the balance, Antetokounmpo moved aside in crunchtime and watched as his new teammate, Damian Lillard, took over and operated the offense.
On the next four possessions, all run by Lillard, the Bucks scored 11 points. In that same span they did enough defensively to open up a seven-point lead en route to pulling out a 132-125 victory to move to 9-4 on the season. Antetokounmpo finished with 40 points, 15 points and seven assists. Lillard ended the night with 27 points, three rebounds and 12 assists, including eight points and two assists while running the show for the final five minutes.
Their combined 48-minute effort was, to date, the best example of exactly what the rest of the league feared when Bucks general manager Jon Horst paired two of the league's most powerful offensive engines of the last decade by trading for Lillard days before training camp opened in Milwaukee.
"I think tonight, he's the horse," Lillard said of Antetokounmpo. "I wanna see him be four-time MVP or five-time MVP and have those type of games. And I'm here because I've had a lot of success. I've won a lot of games, I've had a lot of individual success, but I'm here to win.
"Us winning is not gonna look like my performances in Portland all the time, even though there will be some of those nights. But like I said, he's the horse and ... there's gonna be a quarter where I jump out front and carry the load, I dominate a quarter. Or down the stretch, five minutes, six minutes, you're gonna see me probably take control and take command of that because those are my moments. And it just has to be a balance of us both and us complementing each other leading to wins."
Herro and his contract were discussed a bit in this thread a few weeks ago. Once again he gets hurt and the Heat start winning games suddenly. 3-4 with him playing, he gets hurt 8 minutes into game 8, and they're 5-1 since.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 20, 2023, 03:06:36 PM
Herro and his contract were discussed a bit in this thread a few weeks ago. Once again he gets hurt and the Heat start winning games suddenly. 3-4 with him playing, he gets hurt 8 minutes into game 8, and they're 5-1 since.
Heckuva player, aina?
Just another coincidence.
Giannis is only 20-23, with 13 rebs and 8 dimes against Johnny Davis' Wizards. I see Davis has a grand total of zero points.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 20, 2023, 08:16:44 PM
Giannis is only 20-23, with 13 rebs and 8 dimes against Johnny Davis' Wizards. I see Davis has a grand total of zero points.
Peddle his azz
The Celtics - that zero-year dynasty - found a way to lose to the Hornets.
Tatum scored 45 but missed the game-tying FT.
Crown their azz!
Quote from: MU82 on November 21, 2023, 07:22:41 AM
The Celtics - that zero-year dynasty - found a way to lose to the Hornets.
Tatum scored 45 but missed the game-tying FT.
Crown their azz!
Their depth is suspect. I know White didn't play, but the regulars are playing lots of minutes
I guess LeBron isn't quite done. From Yahoo Sports:
Stop me if you've heard this one before: LeBron James is defying Father Time.
The latest: LeBron, 38, powered the Lakers (8-6) to their fifth win in six games on Sunday, pouring in a season-high 37 points to go along with six rebounds, eight assists, three steals and the game-winning free throw in L.A.'s 105-104 victory over the Rockets.
By the numbers: He's played all but one game so far this season and his averages — 26.4 points, 8.2 rebounds and 6.5 assists — are roughly in line with his career numbers. Those are excellent for anyone; they're downright ludicrous for someone playing in his 21st season.
The 21-season club: LeBron is just the sixth player in NBA history to suit up for a 21st season, and his Year 21 numbers are... slightly better than his fellow super-veterans.
++ James (2023-24): 26.4 points, 8.2 rebounds, 6.5 assists and a 26.1 PER* in 34.4 minutes.
++ Vince Carter (2018-19): 7.4 points, 2.6 rebounds, 1.1 assists and a 11.8 PER in 17.5 minutes.
++ Dirk Nowitzki (2018-19): 7.3 points, 3.1 rebounds, 0.7 assists and a 9.6 PER in 15.6 minutes.
++ Robert Parish (1996-97): 3.7 points, 2.1 rebounds, 0.5 assists and a 14.3 PER in 9.4 minutes.
++ Kevin Garnett (2015-16): 3.2 points, 3.9 rebounds, 1.6 assists and a 12.3 PER in 14.6 minutes.
++ Kevin Willis (2006-07): 2.4 points, 1.6 rebounds, 0.2 assists and a 6.3 PER in 8.6 minutes.
What he's saying: "Just trying to push the limit. See how far I can take this thing. I don't know. I mean, it's me vs. Father Time," he told ESPN after Sunday's win, saying he feels rejuvenated this season. "I got my bounce back, my spring back, my quick twitch back."
But is it sustainable? LeBron has made a career out of defying expectations. But the soon-to-be 39-year-old is in fact mortal, so coach Darvin Ham would be wise to limit his minutes — as he suggested he would last month — in order to keep him healthy for the playoffs.
Having said that, it's easy to understand why Ham has already abandoned that strategy: the Lakers have a +6.7 net rating when LeBron is on the court, but they're at -17.9 when he's off it.
If he rests too much now, they might not have a playoff run to keep him fresh for anyway.
On the production/achievement/longevity scale (which I just made up - please don't ask me to define it!), LeBron is the greatest player in NBA history, and one of the great athletes in any sport ever.
I'd still take Michael to win me a game or a title, and Wilt for individual domination of his era, but it's not some crazy notion to suggest that LeBron is the GOAT.
He is doing in Year 21 what many Hall of Famers never did in the best seasons of their careers.
that writer must not follow basketball
Alright I'm officially in hell after the Purdue game
Scott Foster essentially loses it and goes of giving Paul 2 T's and ejected, and Kerr an additional T.
Foster is a good ref, but he clearly has issues with Paul and really shouldn't be allowed to officiate games with him in it. No need for an ejection there, and no need for 3 T's.
Known more for his court vision and passing ability, LaMelo Ball is on an incredible scoring roll. Here are his stats the last 9 games:
32.2 ppg on .491 shooting (.436 from 3) ... 8.7 apg ... 6.7 rpg.
He's scored 30+ points 7 times during the stretch.
He's pretty much an offensive genius, and he's fun as hell to watch, but he remains mostly allergic to playing even a lick of defense. His +/- during the stretch is -6.6 and the Hornets are 3-6. But they have won their last two games in exciting come-from-behind fashion, beating Boston in OT and then Washington.
Quote from: MU82 on November 23, 2023, 09:42:03 AM
Known more for his court vision and passing ability, LaMelo Ball is on an incredible scoring roll. Here are his stats the last 9 games:
32.2 ppg on .491 shooting (.436 from 3) ... 8.7 apg ... 6.7 rpg.
He's scored 30+ points 7 times during the stretch.
He's pretty much an offensive genius, and he's fun as hell to watch, but he remains mostly allergic to playing even a lick of defense. His +/- during the stretch is -6.6 and the Hornets are 3-6. But they have won their last two games in exciting come-from-behind fashion, beating Boston in OT and then Washington.
I've been pretty critical of the Ball family, but man, LaMelo is impressive.
Quote from: forgetful on November 23, 2023, 11:32:20 AM
I've been pretty critical of the Ball family, but man, LaMelo is impressive.
His decision to play pro in Australia, which is probably the best non-Euro centric foreign league, and his performance/reports on his attitude and work ethic there, had me leaning towards him having this sort of early career.
Another thing lost in the noise and dislike caused by Lavar, Melo and Lonzo had INSANELY high basketball IQs at a very young pre-NBA age. Game understanding and instincts were never in question
Quote from: JWags85 on November 23, 2023, 07:12:47 PM
His decision to play pro in Australia, which is probably the best non-Euro centric foreign league, and his performance/reports on his attitude and work ethic there, had me leaning towards him having this sort of early career.
Another thing lost in the noise and dislike caused by Lavar, Melo and Lonzo had INSANELY high basketball IQs at a very young pre-NBA age. Game understanding and instincts were never in question
I will admit, my dislike for Lavar did wrongly filter on to Melo and Lonzo at first. They both do really know the game, and work extremely hard. LaMelo is really good.
Lonzo is a great player, just cursed with the worlds worst knee
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on November 23, 2023, 11:19:02 PM
Lonzo is a great player, just cursed with the worlds worst knee
Or he wore horribly designed/built shoes that ruined his knees.
nm
I don't care for Draymond Green. If I was a big guy (say....Steven Adams) I would probably level him with no remorse.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 26, 2023, 07:32:25 PM
I don't care for Draymond Green. If I was a big guy (say....Steven Adams) I would probably level him with no remorse.
And take his oil.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 26, 2023, 07:32:25 PM
I don't care for Draymond Green. If I was a big guy (say....Steven Adams) I would probably level him with no remorse.
Steven Adams has his own problems.
Heckuva comeback.
Quote from: tower912 on November 27, 2023, 05:55:31 AM
Heckuva comeback.
Bud would have never come back from 26 against a bottom 5 team on account of blowing them out for the whole 48.
The fact that the Bucks are getting good result from awful process does not speak well of Griffin
Bulls v. Celtics tonight in Boston; who you got?
I would not be surprised to see the Bulls win. They have had a knack for playing out their @$$ against the East's best (along with losing to teams like the Pistons)
Have watched about 15 minutes of Wolves ball so far this year but will be interesting to see if they can keep up being one of the best teams in the West.
Lotta hype around here for those that do care.
Playing the best basketball of his career, LaMelo is out for "multiple weeks" with a sprained ankle.
Unfortunately, he's missed multiple weeks every season of his young career so far.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 28, 2023, 05:27:37 PM
Bulls v. Celtics tonight in Boston; who you got?
I would not be surprised to see the Bulls win. They have had a knack for playing out their @$$ against the East's best (along with losing to teams like the Pistons)
Never mind. Bulls down 25 half way through the 3rd Q. :o
Cuban selling Mavericks
https://nypost.com/2023/11/28/sports/mark-cuban-selling-mavericks-to-adelson-family-in-nba-stunner/
Also quitting Shark Tank. Ostensibly to sit back and enjoy his kids.
Quote from: tower912 on November 29, 2023, 07:56:29 AM
Also quitting Shark Tank. Ostensibly to sit back and enjoy his kids.
Or run for office...but thats obviously just wild speculation based on the seemingly sudden nature of both.
I'll miss him on Shark Tank. Obviously some was for show and there was more to it all than just what was shown on TV, but he was the only one who consistently seemed to look out for candidates and work to get them a deal that wouldn't cripple them.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 28, 2023, 08:00:44 PM
Never mind. Bulls down 25 half way through the 3rd Q. :o
The Bulls are beyond a disaster. BLOW IT UP. Will Donovan go back to college ball?
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 29, 2023, 09:39:44 AM
The Bulls are beyond a disaster. BLOW IT UP. Will Donovan go back to college ball?
Shaka to Bulls
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 29, 2023, 09:39:44 AM
The Bulls are beyond a disaster. BLOW IT UP. Will Donovan go back to college ball?
https://x.com/ChiSportUpdates/status/1729156416290882037?s=20
Very Reinsdorfy
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on November 29, 2023, 09:46:45 AM
https://x.com/ChiSportUpdates/status/1729156416290882037?s=20
Very Reinsdorfy
I don't dislike Billy D, but last night was classic dysfunctional Bulls. The In Season tournament has been pretty fun/interesting, but one of the biggest differentiators is the point differential that is tiebreaker for standings. It makes it fun cause teams are actually playing until the final buzzer instead of some of these blowouts where you sometimes literally see 2 shot clock violations in the last minute as teams stand around.
Well the C's needed a 20+ point differential last night so they started Hack A Drummond in the middle of the 4th to build up the score gap. Well Donovan and his staff were unprepared/unaware, so they took exception to it and had to have it explained to them by Mazulla.
Quote from: JWags85 on November 29, 2023, 11:05:03 AM
I don't dislike Billy D, but last night was classic dysfunctional Bulls. The In Season tournament has been pretty fun/interesting, but one of the biggest differentiators is the point differential that is tiebreaker for standings. It makes it fun cause teams are actually playing until the final buzzer instead of some of these blowouts where you sometimes literally see 2 shot clock violations in the last minute as teams stand around.
Well the C's needed a 20+ point differential last night so they started Hack A Drummond in the middle of the 4th to build up the score gap. Well Donovan and his staff were unprepared/unaware, so they took exception to it and had to have it explained to them by Mazulla.
Donovan has been mailing it in for some time. Classic ownership, FO and players don't care; so why should Billy? He doesn't seem happy nor energized. He is just showing up to collect a paycheck. I don't fault him at all.
I doubt he has the energy or will to coach in college or NBA again. JMHO, when the Bulls do fire him, he will retire (and thank the Bulls for making him very rich and unemployed)
On the one hand, as Wags said, the point differential thing made teams keep their stars in the game, which was unique and interesting.
On the other hand, in addition to all but mandating what traditionally has been viewed as an unsportsmanlike situation, just wait until a star or two get hurt at the end of a 40+ minute night with his team leading by 31 points.
Quote from: MU82 on November 29, 2023, 11:26:50 AM
On the one hand, as Wags said, the point differential thing made teams keep their stars in the game, which was unique and interesting.
On the other hand, in addition to all but mandating what traditionally has been viewed as an unsportsmanlike situation, just wait until a star or two get hurt at the end of a 40+ minute night with his team leading by 31 points.
Point differential happens in soccer, and their players never go down with an injury
(https://media.tenor.com/aebiznjuH_sAAAAC/football-dive.gif)
Bucks better get serious. Only up 6 at the half. Can't lose to a DeRozan and LaVine less Bulls. Should win by 20.
https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1730398838853079457?t=FIHrkhF6ufx9IoFMSVK-Nw&s=01
Quote from: wadesworld on November 30, 2023, 08:47:21 PM
https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1730398838853079457?t=FIHrkhF6ufx9IoFMSVK-Nw&s=01
Was literally coming here to post that. What an awesome story from a genuinely good dude. He's been my nephew's favorite player from Knicks camp and my BIL has ran into a few times and raves about what a legitimately awesome guy he is.
Even cooler when you consider he was a first round talent that fell in the draft due to character concerns. Great turnaround
Quote from: JWags85 on November 30, 2023, 08:54:07 PM
Was literally coming here to post that. What an awesome story from a genuinely good dude. He's been my nephew's favorite player from Knicks camp and my BIL has ran into a few times and raves about what a legitimately awesome guy he is.
Even cooler when you consider he was a first round talent that fell in the draft due to character concerns. Great turnaround
Quote from: wadesworld on November 30, 2023, 08:47:21 PM
https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1730398838853079457?t=FIHrkhF6ufx9IoFMSVK-Nw&s=01
What a great story. Makes my day a bit to see that there are genuinely good people out there still.
Somehow the Bucks lost to the Bulls. And neither Lavine or DeRozan played.
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 30, 2023, 09:46:51 PM
Somehow the Bucks lost to the Bulls. And neither Lavine or DeRozan played.
Maybe this will give the Bulls the guts to rebuild.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on November 30, 2023, 10:00:51 PM
Maybe this will give the Bulls the guts to rebuild.
Good point. Who are the suitors?
Maybe it'll give da Bucks da stones ta dump Griffin and let Horst be da GM instead of #34, hey?
Quote from: MuggsyB on November 30, 2023, 11:02:38 PM
What's the Klay trade?
Woj on ESPN says there is NO trade market for LaVine. :(
The Bulls FO is truly comical. He wants out, the Bulls want him out but they likely will have him 4 more years.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on December 03, 2023, 04:39:50 PM
Woj on ESPN says there is NO trade market for LaVine. :(
The Bulls FO is truly comical. He wants out, the Bulls want him out but they likely will have him 4 more years.
NBA to Reinsdorf: "Get ready to throw in some pick sweetners, buddy"
Quote from: GB Warrior on December 03, 2023, 05:51:20 PM
NBA to Reinsdorf: "Get ready to throw in some pick sweetners, buddy"
Ha right? I believe that don't have many to use. Shocking but that happens when you build a dynasty.
https://twitter.com/LakeShowYo/status/1731420016397132026/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1731420016397132026¤tTweetUser=LakeShowYo
Haha
Jokic leads the NBA in points, rebounds and assists.
Pretty good for a guy that every single team in the NBA passed on, some twice.
Not that it matters for anything but it cracks me up how much ESPN pumps up Tatum/the Celtics. At least when I took the screenshot the C's were losing and Tatum was at 19/11/5 with 2 minutes left in the 3rd and they're all about Tatum "flirting with a triple double."
No mention of Haliburton flirting with a triple double, sitting at 19/10/7 at the same time. With his team leading.
Why on Earth didn't we recruit Haliburton? :(
I was very 'meh' about the in- season tournament when it was announced. But it has been fantastic. Playoff intensity during the early season? Can't be beat.
I recommend the Bucks continue to shoot over 60% from 3.
Bucks vs. Pacers?
First team to 150 wins.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 01, 2023, 03:57:55 AM
Maybe it'll give da Bucks da stones ta dump Griffin
Complexion- don't mean a thing.
The Bucks are second in the east and won 8 of their last 10. Everyone knew that it would take awhile for a new coach to figure out a new roster at the beginning of the season. Griffin isn't getting fired.
Quote from: Mutaman on December 05, 2023, 09:45:16 PM
Complexion- don't mean a thing.
what's this supposed to mean?? but yes, all lives matter!
From The Athletic:
The Los Angeles Lakers beat the Phoenix Suns last night, 106-103, in a thrilling game that sends the 13-9 Lakers to the In-Season Tournament semifinals. But, for all the IST's fun, this felt like more.
LeBron James scored 31 points, dished 11 assists and grabbed eight rebounds in 40 minutes of action. This man is 24 days away from turning 39. Thirty-nine! He's still a top-five player in basketball right now, and on a Tuesday in December, he's putting up those numbers. It's unreal and something we might never see again.
Durant was great, too: 31 points, seven rebounds, four assists. He and James dueled like they always have, no matter the uniforms. Together they are two of the maybe 10 best basketball players to ever play. Durant, a sprightly 35, is 10th all-time in scoring and could pass eighth-place Shaq this year if he stays healthy.
I cannot stop wondering how many more of these matchups we have left.
After pumping up the in season tournament for months, the Bucks and Pacers play a semifinal game at 4 PM tomorrow. Sweet!
Quote from: wadesworld on December 06, 2023, 09:31:52 AM
After pumping up the in season tournament for months, the Bucks and Pacers play a semifinal game at 4 PM tomorrow. Sweet!
Yup. Catering to the East Coast crowd.
Remember when the Spurs beat Phoenix 2 in a row to improve to 3-2 ... and there was talk in some quarters about Wemby leading them to the playoffs as a rookie?
Good times.
I've noticed there's a lottery pick, whom I was told would be a superstar, that is averaging 3 pts a game on a 3-17 team.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 06, 2023, 11:35:20 PM
I've noticed there's a lottery pick, whom I was told would be a superstar, that is averaging 3 pts a game on a 3-17 team.
Listen to different people.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 06, 2023, 11:35:20 PM
I've noticed there's a lottery pick, whom I was told would be a superstar, that is averaging 3 pts a game on a 3-17 team.
He should give the money back to his team and go play overseas.
That Rudy Gobert trade myself and everyone piled on, might have actually been a steal.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 07, 2023, 11:24:14 AM
That Rudy Gobert trade myself and everyone piled on, might have actually been a steal.
Yeah I don't want to talk about it. I like shitting on KAT and Gobert more than I like giving them props. West is weak, Gobert only plays well against bottom feeders, slow player in a slower conference, etc
West is weak?
Compared to what?
Quote from: MU82 on December 07, 2023, 12:17:52 PM
West is weak?
Compared to what?
Compared to what I need them to be to keep KAT in his place in the basement of the conference
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 07, 2023, 11:24:14 AM
That Rudy Gobert trade myself and everyone piled on, might have actually been a steal.
We'll see about that. They still owe the Jazz 3 more firsts and Keyonte George and Walker Kessler are both very good already.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on December 07, 2023, 01:15:03 PM
Compared to what I need them to be to keep KAT in his place in the basement of the conference
I guess I'm missing the teal or something.
Bucks ain't gonna win chit with their idiot coach and playas like Middleton and Lopez who shot their load years ago. Its a young man's game, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 07, 2023, 06:45:31 PM
Bucks ain't gonna win chit with their idiot coach and playas like Middleton and Lopez who shot their load years ago. Its a young man's game, aina?
How come you only post about them after they lose?
'Cuz I know ball, aina?
VEGAS -- Giannis Antetokounmpo said the Milwaukee Bucks simply have to be better after the Indiana Pacers knocked them out of the NBA's inaugural in-season tournament Thursday, criticizing the Bucks' lack of organization and saying the team sometimes is "not organized at all."
"The talent level we have is incredible," Antetokounmpo said after putting up 37 points and 10 rebounds in the 128-119 loss at T-Mobile Arena. "But we have to be more organized."
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"I feel like sometimes we're not organized at all. We don't know what we try to get from our offense, or sometimes defensively we're not sprinting back. We don't shoot a lot of early 3s. At the end of the day, you have to protect the ball. You have to know where the ball is. We had a lot of situations today that they got a lot of dunks, open 3s, early 3s. We have to be better.
"Nobody is going to give you nothing. Like sometimes I feel like we expect just because we have great players out there, that Tyrese Haliburton or Myles Turner or Aaron Nesmith, somebody is not just going to give us the game. Like, no. We have to be better. We have to go out there and take it. You know at the end of the day, I think we are great players, but if we don't go out there and compete, they are not going to respect us. They played their best against us."
EDITOR'S PICKS
Haliburton's time: Pacers down Bucks to advance
4hTim Bontemps
LeBron-led Lakers roll past Pels to reach IST final
2hDave McMenamin
That was certainly true Thursday night. After the Bucks scored 43 points in the third quarter, going on a 27-9 run to begin the half to reassert control, Haliburton and the Pacers responded with a 9-2 run late in the fourth quarter to put the game away.
Bucks coach Adrian Griffin shouldered the blame, saying it's on him to help his team execute better late.
"I've got to do a better job of getting them into some certain sets down, you know, late game," he said. "But we put ourselves in a position [to win]. The first half was rocky. We made some good adjustments, but we've got to close out in the fourth quarter, which we've done very well. We just couldn't pull it off tonight."
Antetokounmpo had a different take. Asked if his criticism of the team's lack of organization was directed at the players, coaches or both, he said it's on the players to get the job done no matter what the coaches are telling them to do.
"The players play the game," he said. "We play the game, you know? Coaches can say whatever they want to say and put us in the position to be successful, and you hope that they do that for you. But you've got to make the plays, you know? Like, you don't sprint back on defense, it's not the coaches' fault you don't sprint back. If you're not able to execute down the stretch and you turn the ball over and you throw it to your opponent's hands, it's not the coaches' fault. You just have to take that."
Haliburton had another strong night, putting up 27 points, 15 assists and no turnovers, while Turner had 26 points and 10 rebounds. But as great as they were, Antetokounmpo said it was Indiana's bench that won the game.
Ultimately, he said, the Bucks have to get to work correcting their flaws after flying home Friday and having the weekend to prepare for the Chicago Bulls on Monday.
"At the end of the day, I felt like their bench kicked our butts," Antetokounmpo said. "It's simple. I saw the stat sheet. I usually don't look at the stat sheet, but I look at the stat sheet, they do it way better than us.
"We have to address it. We have three days now until Monday that we play Chicago at home. We have to get on the court. We have to get in the film room. We have to talk as a team and hopefully we can expedite our chemistry. It's not about the coach. It's like we have to get better. It's on us now. We have the talent, we have the experience. It's on us. We know it's on us.
We'll see if Edens et al have da stones ta chitcan their mistake, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 08, 2023, 06:42:59 AM
We'll see if Edens et al have da stones ta chitcan their mistake, hey?
Front runner and mope
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 08, 2023, 06:42:59 AM
We'll see if Edens et al have da stones ta chitcan their mistake, hey?
Won't happen until they crash out of the playoffs.
But the guy makes Jason Kidd look like a great coach.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 08, 2023, 08:38:06 AM
Won't happen until they crash out of the playoffs.
But the guy makes Jason Kidd look like a great coach.
I think my biggest concern is defense was his biggest strength, and right now I think the chair Yi practiced against would provide more resistance than the Bucks.
Quote from: cheebs09 on December 08, 2023, 08:47:30 AM
I think my biggest concern is defense was his biggest strength, and right now I think the chair Yi practiced against would provide more resistance than the Bucks.
With a Lillard-Beasley-Middleton's Corpse lineup they were never gonna be great defensively. But the amount of miscommunication was really concerning. No one was talking on screens, they conceded a ton of lane attempts.
Totally disorganized on both ends down the stretch. This shouldn't be this hard with the amount of vets they play.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 08, 2023, 03:27:43 AM
'Cuz I know ball, aina?
Well, you did want Giannis to be traded about 15 minutes before he led the
Bucks to the title, so there's that proven wealth of knowledge.
#34 is starting to speak negatively about the team's disorganization. Aka, bitchin' 'bout da head coach, or the guy he promoted for the head coachin' gig. There's a reason Griffin was a perennial assistant coach for something approaching 15 years. Sound familiar? Credit Stotts for gettin' out of da cesspool before he couldn't get rid of the stench, aina?
Make up your mind, Doc.
Do you care what Giannis says or do you want him to just shut up and dribble? Do you want him on the team or do you want to trade his azz and forfeit any chance of winning championships for a generation (as was your preference in 2021)?
I am fine with him shuttin' up and dribbin', hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 08, 2023, 12:30:55 PM
I am fine with him shuttin' up and dribbin', hey?
Not surprising.
That settles it. The debate is over. Jordan never on an IST title. LeBron is the GOAT.
Lakers are hanging a banner for that title??
LOL
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 11, 2023, 09:36:11 PM
Lakers are hanging a banner for that title??
LOL
Is that from The Onion?
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 11, 2023, 09:36:11 PM
Lakers are hanging a banner for that title??
LOL
Wait... what?? How pathetic.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 11, 2023, 09:59:50 PM
Wait... what?? How pathetic.
That's very embarrassing for LeBron. This is a case where he needs to throw his weight around and stop the nonsense.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on December 11, 2023, 09:59:04 PM
Is that from The Onion?
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39092399/los-angeles-lakers-hang-banner-honors-nba-cup-win
Crazy. This is one of those situations where they think as the Lakers they can get away with it since its behind a bunch of legit banners
If a team like the Wolves tried this woooof the backlash and jokes.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 11, 2023, 10:10:48 PM
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39092399/los-angeles-lakers-hang-banner-honors-nba-cup-win
Crazy. This is one of those situations where they think as the Lakers they can get away with it since its behind a bunch of legit banners
If a team like the Wolves tried this woooof the backlash and jokes.
Maybe I'm nuts, but isn't being the first team to clinch a playoff spot or homecourt advantage 100X more important and impressive?
The NBA very much wants the IST to be a thing. It would not surprise me at all if the league is pushing very hard for the banner. Or requiring it.
Honestly, the tournament made some otherwise boring games from the doldrums of the NBA season incrementally more interesting. All in all...I think it was a net positive. But pretending that it matters could change that equation.
Yeah, the NBA is going to continue doing it as well. I don't see what's wrong with hanging a banner for this. If the league decides to stop it altogether, they can just take the banner down. Really a silly thing to criticize the Lakers about.
I'm sure the NBA would have nudged any team that won to hang a banner. If it's just going to be a single banner that lists dates, I don't see the big deal. It would be the equivalent to the MU postseason appearances banner.
I think the Bucks have a division championship banner. I don't see this being any more silly than that.
If the Pistons win a game, they should hang a banner.
Quote from: cheebs09 on December 12, 2023, 08:55:44 AM
I'm sure the NBA would have nudged any team that won to hang a banner. If it's just going to be a single banner that lists dates, I don't see the big deal. It would be the equivalent to the MU postseason appearances banner.
I think the Bucks have a division championship banner. I don't see this being any more silly than that.
It's the Lakers and LeBron. Whatever they do will be overly scrutinized.
Not sure why the Lakers raising a banner for this bothers anybody here, but whatevs.
I mean, the Bucks raised a banner with the retired number of a guy who averaged 12 points and 2 rebounds for his career. Most teams have all kinds of dubious banners raised. Who cares?
The NBA really wants this to be a thing, but also plays its semifinal game at 4 PM Central Time/2 PM local tip on a non-holiday Thursday.
It wasn't terrible, but it also wasn't great. The courts flat out stunk. They should probably find a way to make group play home and homes rather than just one game between each team.
Quote from: MU82 on December 12, 2023, 09:01:19 AM
I mean, the Bucks raised a banner with the retired number of a guy who averaged 12 points and 2 rebounds for his career. Most teams have all kinds of dubious banners raised. Who cares?
Are you talking about Bridgeman?
Quote from: JWags85 on December 12, 2023, 09:34:49 AM
Are you talking about Bridgeman?
McGlocklin.
Bridgeman averaged 14 and 4.
Quote from: cheebs09 on December 12, 2023, 08:55:44 AM
I'm sure the NBA would have nudged any team that won to hang a banner. If it's just going to be a single banner that lists dates, I don't see the big deal. It would be the equivalent to the MU postseason appearances banner.
I think the Bucks have a division championship banner. I don't see this being any more silly than that.
Maybe I am wrong; but a banner for division titles is sillier than the in season tournament? Would anyone even think the in season title is more important than a division title? Up until lately the division title would get you a 1,2 or 3 seed. Just because some players got a big bonus, it is banner worthy? If all the Bucks players reach their performance bonuses should they hang a banner?
I'd sum up my position with; as a Bulls fan, I would trade an 8 seed for the in season title in 2 seconds flat. They are not even close. Just my opinion.
(Also, the point about the NBA making them do it makes a lot of sense. I'd guess LeBron is slightly embarassed.)
Quote from: MU82 on December 12, 2023, 09:36:14 AM
McGlocklin.
Bridgeman averaged 14 and 4.
I mean, they retired his number in like 76, right? Franchise was less than a decade old, he was the first All-Star in Bucks history, and a key cog in the championship team. I get it. If he had left in the next few years like Flynn Robinson they probably don't retire it, nor would he be retired if he put up those numbers in the 80s or later.
Quote from: JWags85 on December 12, 2023, 10:40:10 AM
I mean, they retired his number in like 76, right? Franchise was less than a decade old, he was the first All-Star in Bucks history, and a key cog in the championship team. I get it. If he had left in the next few years like Flynn Robinson they probably don't retire it, nor would he be retired if he put up those numbers in the 80s or later.
I know why they retired his number and gave him a permanent banner in the rafters. Lots of teams have similar situations. Marquette certainly does.
It was just an example of a banner being raised that some might find questionable ... but I think the best response to that question is another: Who cares?
Why should any Scooper really care if the Lakers raise a banner for the IST title? Talk about nitpicking about something that affects zero people.
Quote from: MU82 on December 12, 2023, 02:05:21 PM
Talk about nitpicking about something that affects zero people.
Welcome to team message boards, sports bars, sports talk radio, ESPN, etc.
None of this sports stuff really matters nor effects anyone. This is the whole point, entertainment and escape.
A great potion of my best MU memories were some beers and discussing/arguing Magic v MJ, '85 Bears v the Steel Curtain, NCAA seeds, etc.
I don't see anyone on the board going crazy about the banner. Nobody wants to boycott the NBA or burn down the Staples Center (or whatever it is called).
I suppose disagreements about MU's uniforms must burn your a$$? Relax.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on December 12, 2023, 02:44:56 PM
Welcome to team message boards, sports bars, sports talk radio, ESPN, etc.
None of this sports stuff really matters nor effects anyone. This is the whole point, entertainment and escape.
A great potion of my best MU memories were some beers and discussing/arguing Magic v MJ, '85 Bears v the Steel Curtain, NCAA seeds, etc.
I don't see anyone on the board going crazy about the banner. Nobody wants to boycott the NBA or burn down the Staples Center (or whatever it is called).
I suppose disagreements about MU's uniforms must burn your a$$? Relax.
You sure seemed bugged by the banner raising, but that's cool.
And wait ... there are disagreements about MU's uniform?
Quote from: MU82 on December 12, 2023, 02:54:17 PM
You sure seemed bugged by the banner raising, but that's cool.
And wait ... there are disagreements about MU's uniform?
LOL!
Yes, I am bugged by the banner. In the same way Oregon's uniforms bug me, UW fans bug me, losing in Monopoly bugs me or paying good money for a bad movie bugs me. All good bar room/water cooler topics but not impactful in my life.
For the record, I do understand where you are coming from and your logic is sound. We may not see eye to eye, but calling out others for taking time to make fun of the Lakers is reasonable. But is is fun to poke the Lakers.
I guess I missed SAS fat shaming Zion? The kid has tremendous talent. However, vats of gumbo, jambalaya, etoufee, begniets, po boys, mufatellas, and God knows what else are not helping him reach his potential. I read he has a "295" clause in his contract? Meaning if he gets that rotund, no bonuses or what exactly? 295? The kid is 6'6, WTF?? He needs to stop eating everything in his line of vision.
How many games will Draymond get suspended? 20? 25?
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 12, 2023, 04:31:40 PM
I guess I missed SAS fat shaming Zion? The kid has tremendous talent. However, vats of gumbo, jambalaya, etoufee, begniets, po boys, mufatellas, and God knows what else are not helping him reach his potential. I read he has a "295" clause in his contract? Meaning if he gets that rotund, no bonuses or what exactly? 295? The kid is 6'6, WTF?? He needs to stop eating everything in his line of vision.
Oh, I could really go for a mufatella.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 13, 2023, 07:31:34 AM
How many games will Draymond get suspended? 20? 25?
Enough already. Suspend him until March 1, and then if he can't behave after that, ban him for 100 games. A lifetime ban would be next - hopefully before he hurts somebody badly.
I've only heard good things about him as a person, so I hope his hair-trigger temper and tendency to lash out physically don't carry over to his personal life. But the guy needs serious help.
Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on December 13, 2023, 07:50:00 AM
Oh, I could really go for a mufatella.
Is that a mufaletta sandwich with nutella? Sounds gross. Probably has too much salt too.
Quote from: MU82 on December 13, 2023, 08:00:42 AM
Enough already. Suspend him until March 1, and then if he can't behave after that, ban him for 100 games. A lifetime ban would be next - hopefully before he hurts somebody badly.
I've only heard good things about him as a person, so I hope his hair-trigger temper and tendency to lash out physically don't carry over to his personal life. But the guy needs serious help.
Ive supported Draymond numerous times here, but I don't disagree. At a certain point its just habitual and a complete lack of control.
Nearly everything about him off the court is pretty glowing and he's pretty consistently thought of as a good guy among NBA circles, personality-wise/socially...but there is clearly something off with his impulse control and reactionary decision making. I too hope he gets some help before something even worse happens.
Beyond just that, he has a really bright future after he retires as commentator/analyst/studio guy, which he has already shown, I'd hate for that to get jeopardized because he's unhinged and acting insane to end his playing career.
I don't think Draymond's pressser after the game helped his cause. Have you ever noticed that when the guy has totally lost it he generally lashes out against a completely defenseless player? The wtf reaction from the Golden State bench says it all. Beyond his imminent suspension the Dubs have big probs on the court. I think what Curry did two years ago is even more remarkable than I originally realized.
He's a member of a protected class, so a minor slap is nothin'. Plus, the NBA is a media whore and any news that keeps it in the forefront, is good news. As for Green, suspend him for the remainder of the season and sentence him to anger management classes with volunteer work in a homeless shelter and food pantry. GS, if they any balls, would peddle his ass. Nurkic should press assault and battery charges, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 13, 2023, 10:24:02 AM
He's a member of a protected class, so a minor slap is nothin'. Plus, the NBA is a media whore and any news that keeps it in the forefront, is good news. As for Green, suspend him for the remainder of the season and sentence him to anger management classes with volunteer work in a homeless shelter and food pantry. GS, if they any balls, would peddle his ass. Nurkic should press assault and battery charges, hey?
🙄🙄🙄
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 13, 2023, 10:24:02 AM
He's a member of a protected class, so a minor slap is nothin'. Plus, the NBA is a media whore and any news that keeps it in the forefront, is good news. As for Green, suspend him for the remainder of the season and sentence him to anger management classes with volunteer work in a homeless shelter and food pantry. GS, if they any balls, would peddle his ass. Nurkic should press assault and battery charges, hey?
5 tell you all that, hey?
Suspend him for 40 games.
Its gotta be rougly a Ja length suspension.
Hes going to no joke kill a player soon. Hes clearly mentally unhinged and you can tell players around the league are at a loss on even explaining it.
Quote from: MU82 on December 13, 2023, 10:50:31 AM
Wut?
He's not a white male, the most put upon people in America
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 13, 2023, 11:47:03 AM
He's not a white male, the most put upon people in America
I mean, I thought that's where he was going, but ...
he wouldn't dare pull that crap if jordan poole were still on the team
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 13, 2023, 10:24:02 AM
He's a member of a protected class, so a minor slap is nothin'. Plus, the NBA is a media whore and any news that keeps it in the forefront, is good news. As for Green, suspend him for the remainder of the season and sentence him to anger management classes with volunteer work in a homeless shelter and food pantry. GS, if they any balls, would peddle his ass. Nurkic should press assault and battery charges, hey?
This actually makes roQQet's posts sound smart. Plus, it equals any racist rant that guy has had.
Nikola Jokic got tossed last night even though he's a member of a protected class.
Draymond is suspended "indefinitely" until he meets "certain requirements".
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 13, 2023, 07:35:09 PM
Draymond is suspended "indefinitely" until he meets "certain requirements".
Why the air quotes?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 13, 2023, 07:35:30 PM
Why the air quotes?
Because no one knows what that means.
You start with a 20-30 game suspension. As far as "meeting certain requirements"? Silver can ponder that while Green doesn't collect his paycheck. One requirement should be if he ever does that garbage again he will be thrown out of the league.
Part of these "requirements" are "team requirements"? Is this a fking joke? You mean the same team and coach that didn't do diddly squat when he punched his teammate in the face? Absurd.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 13, 2023, 08:03:16 PM
You start with a 20-30 game suspension. As far as "meeting certain requirements"? Silver can ponder that while Green doesn't collect his paycheck. One requirement should be if he ever does that garbage again he will be thrown out of the league.
Part of these "requirements" are "team requirements"? Is this a fking joke? You mean the same team and coach that didn't do diddly squat when he punched his teammate in the face? Absurd.
You get outraged over the dumbest stuff. Really who cares.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 13, 2023, 09:28:05 PM
You get outraged over the dumbest stuff. Really who cares.
I'm not outraged at all.
If this Giannis kid keeps working hard to develop a bag, he could be really good
Quote from: GB Warrior on December 13, 2023, 09:48:15 PM
If this Giannis kid keeps working hard to develop a bag, he could be really good
64 is acceptable.
Pretty douchey move if true that the pacers took off with the game ball on Giannis' career night.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 13, 2023, 09:28:05 PM
You get outraged over the dumbest stuff. Really who cares.
Yeah well Draymond shouldn't be playing professional basketball.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 14, 2023, 06:06:53 AM
Yeah well Draymond shouldn't be playing professional basketball.
Just a dumb take.
Quote from: Jockey on December 14, 2023, 09:01:06 AM
Just a dumb take.
Why's that. He's constantly getting thrown out of games and suspended for violent behavior. Eventually, it is negligent of the NBA to allow him to continue playing. He's going to deck someone or something else and if is serious enough someone is going to press charges. He's been suspended SIX times. Eventually, he's going to be shown the door for the season because the suspensions seem to have little impact.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on December 13, 2023, 10:34:01 PM
Pretty douchey move if true that the pacers took off with the game ball on Giannis' career night.
Sounds like it was pretty much all the Bucks' own fault. First, why is Dame shooting it after the buzzer anyway? Second, the guy who got the ball from the refs was a Bucks staffer. How did it end up with the Pacers anyway? Unless someone from the Pacers stole it from the staffer or something, it seems like the Bucks had every chance to get Giannis the ball. If they gave it to the Pacers, I can see why they weren't really thinking, "Hey, maybe let's get this to Giannis."
All-Time great George McGinnis passed away.
Funniest part is that it wasn't even Tshiebwe's first point, they just don't count IST. Plenty of silliness and overreactions all around.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 14, 2023, 09:12:46 AM
Why's that. He's constantly getting thrown out of games and suspended for violent behavior. Eventually, it is negligent of the NBA to allow him to continue playing. He's going to deck someone or something else and if is serious enough someone is going to press charges. He's been suspended SIX times. Eventually, he's going to be shown the door for the season because the suspensions seem to have little impact.
Guys on the internet don't get to decide who does or does not get to play in the NBA.
I was glad to see the punishment that the NBA doled out this time. I expect to see him out of the league within 2 years as I think think Kerr has had enough.
Quote from: Jockey on December 14, 2023, 11:32:41 AM
Guys on the internet don't get to decide who does or does not get to play in the NBA.
I was glad to see the punishment that the NBA doled out this time. I expect to see him out of the league within 2 years as I think think Kerr has had enough.
(https://media.tenor.com/uC2qyrJsT6wAAAAC/oh-really-o-rly.gif)
Quote from: Jockey on December 14, 2023, 11:32:41 AM
Guys on the internet don't get to decide who does or does not get to play in the NBA.
I was glad to see the punishment that the NBA doled out this time. I expect to see him out of the league within 2 years as I think think Kerr has had enough.
"Kerr has had enough"? WTH are you basing this on? After the game he stated twice "we need Draymond". This is the same guy who has placated him after every outburst until the Golbert choke where essentially he was forced to take back his original comments.
Kerr and Golden State management/ownership have exacerbated this entire situation exponentially. They are part of the freaking problem by treating Green like a coddled 5 year old. Now maybe, because his game and antics are hurting the team, and the NBA is sorta stepping in, Golden State will decide they have had enough of this clown but who knows? And as far as the indefinite suspension we should all remember that Ja Morant got one of those, took some anger classes or whatever, and the NBA decided to give him 8 games.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 14, 2023, 12:12:03 PM
"Kerr has had enough"? WTH are you basing this on? After the game he stated twice "we need Draymond". This is the same guy who has placated him after every outburst until the Golbert choke where essentially he was forced to take back his original comments.
Kerr and Golden State management/ownership have exacerbated this entire situation exponentially. They are part of the freaking problem by treating Green like a coddled 5 year old. Now maybe, because his game and antics are hurting tbe team, and the NBA is sorta stepping in, Golden State will decide they have had enough of this clown but who knows? And as far as the indefinite suspension we should all remember that Ja Morant got one of those, took some anger classes or whatever, and the NBA decided to give him 8 games.
Steve Kerr is awesome
Probably should just anoint Green as Commissioner in waitin', aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 14, 2023, 12:37:37 PM
Probably should just anoint Green as Commissioner in waitin', aina?
Why? He's been suspended.
It sounds like Green can still practice. That's wild to me.
Well, ya gotta bea able ta beet up ur teemates sumwhere, hey?
Quote from: wadesworld on December 14, 2023, 09:37:49 AM
Sounds like it was pretty much all the Bucks' own fault. First, why is Dame shooting it after the buzzer anyway? Second, the guy who got the ball from the refs was a Bucks staffer. How did it end up with the Pacers anyway? Unless someone from the Pacers stole it from the staffer or something, it seems like the Bucks had every chance to get Giannis the ball. If they gave it to the Pacers, I can see why they weren't really thinking, "Hey, maybe let's get this to Giannis."
Just a bunch of grown ups acting like dramatic babies. Though if this starts a nice little rivalry between two high scoring teams I like the outcome even if the actions are idiocy
Tom Izzo just used Draymond Green as an example of Michigan State culture and why they've been so successful.
I've been told by ball knowers Izzo is a hall of fame coach and where smart players go play. With that knowledge, I think it's ridiculous Draymond got suspended.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 14, 2023, 08:01:10 PM
Tom Izzo just used Draymond Green as an example of Michigan State culture and why they've been so successful.
I've been told by ball knowers Izzo is a hall of fame coach and where smart players go play. With that knowledge, I think it's ridiculous Draymond got suspended.
His actions certainly do fit the culture Izzo has built. Which also fit the entire athletic department there as a whole. Although the victims are usually female.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 14, 2023, 08:35:16 PM
His actions certainly do fit the culture Izzo has built. Which also fit the entire athletic department there as a whole. Although the victims are usually female.
He's a hall of fame coach
Sheesh this Wolves team really might be legit.
Just bent the Mavs over a railing with hobbled Ant shooting like Sean Jones.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 14, 2023, 10:00:33 PM
Sheesh this Wolves team really might be legit.
Just bent the Mavs over a railing with hobbled Ant shooting like Sean Jones.
It's really unfortunate you aren't a fan of them though.
Quote from: withoutbias on December 14, 2023, 10:02:20 PM
It's really unfortunate you aren't a fan of them though.
No its not
Maybe it is too small of a sample size to make a conclusion, but the Bulls look like a decent team without LaVine. Like maybe a .500ish team that could get a 9 or 10 seed. Does that hurt his trade value (that was not very good before he sat)?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on December 15, 2023, 08:16:59 AM
Maybe it is too small of a sample size to make a conclusion, but the Bulls look like a decent team without LaVine. Like maybe a .500ish team that could get a 9 or 10 seed. Does that hurt his trade value (that was not very good before he sat)?
Lavine is one of the most overrated players in the NBA. A high volume gunner who doesn't fit into a team game and an uninterested defensive player.
Trade value? Ain't gonna be what you'd expect for a "star" player. No where near a Brad Beal type return.
Quote from: Jockey on December 15, 2023, 10:53:41 AM
Lavine is one of the most overrated players in the NBA. A high volume gunner who doesn't fit into a team game and an uninterested defensive player.
Trade value? Ain't gonna be what you'd expect for a "star" player. No where near a Brad Beal type return.
Sounds like the rest of the NBA sees it the way you do. The Bull's FO is truly delusional. They kept this team together because the think it is NBA Championship capable. ::)
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 14, 2023, 12:12:03 PM
"Kerr has had enough"? WTH are you basing this on? After the game he stated twice "we need Draymond". This is the same guy who has placated him after every outburst until the Golbert choke where essentially he was forced to take back his original comments.
Kerr and Golden State management/ownership have exacerbated this entire situation exponentially. They are part of the freaking problem by treating Green like a coddled 5 year old. Now maybe, because his game and antics are hurting the team, and the NBA is sorta stepping in, Golden State will decide they have had enough of this clown but who knows? And as far as the indefinite suspension we should all remember that Ja Morant got one of those, took some anger classes or whatever, and the NBA decided to give him 8 games.
Clueless. Kerr fully supports an indefinite suspension.
Quote from: Jockey on December 15, 2023, 06:41:32 PM
Clueless. Kerr fully supports an indefinite suspension.
Uhhhh....no. He's forced to "support" a suspension. Remember this is the same guy who literally did nothing when he punched Jordan Poole in the face. He rewarded him by allowing him to attend the ring ceremony. If you don't think Kerr and the Warriors organization has coddled Green and his behavior you're struggling with basic observation skills.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 16, 2023, 08:26:42 AM
Uhhhh....no. He's forced to "support" a suspension. Remember this is the same guy who literally did nothing when he punched Jordan Poole in the face. He rewarded him by allowing him to attend the ring ceremony. If you don't think Kerr and the Warriors organization has coddled Green and his behavior you're struggling with basic observation skills.
I love Steve Kerr. Great coach, better person
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 16, 2023, 08:26:42 AM
Uhhhh....no. He's forced to "support" a suspension. Remember this is the same guy who literally did nothing when he punched Jordan Poole in the face. He rewarded him by allowing him to attend the ring ceremony. If you don't think Kerr and the Warriors organization has coddled Green and his behavior you're struggling with basic observation skills.
This seems to be the overwhelming consensus of those who cover the NBA.
Does Kerr 'care' about Draymond's wellbeing? No, he only cares to the extent he wins games. Been demonstrated by him multiple times. BUT, that is not Kerr's job. He is not his family or friend. Kerr is there to win games and not to look out for a player's wellbeing.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on December 16, 2023, 11:09:12 AM
This seems to be the overwhelming consensus of those who cover the NBA.
Does Kerr 'care' about Draymond's wellbeing? No, he only cares to the extent he wins games. Been demonstrated by him multiple times. BUT, that is not Kerr's job. He is not his family or friend. Kerr is there to win games and not to look out for a player's wellbeing.
I think that's fair.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on December 16, 2023, 11:09:12 AM
This seems to be the overwhelming consensus of those who cover the NBA.
Does Kerr 'care' about Draymond's wellbeing? No, he only cares to the extent he wins games. Been demonstrated by him multiple times. BUT, that is not Kerr's job. He is not his family or friend. Kerr is there to win games and not to look out for a player's wellbeing.
Technically, Kerr is there to make the owner as much money as possible. Usually, that means winning games, but not always.
Quote from: lawdog77 on December 16, 2023, 11:20:16 AM
Technically, Kerr is there to make the owner as much money as possible. Usually, that means winning games, but not always.
That's not the way it works. Organizations (for-profit) are there to make money, each position performs to the highest level within their responsibilities to get the desired outcome. Unless Steve is the CEO, he is charged with winning games. Other qualified people focus on sales, finance, HR, etc. that should all add to the bottom line.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on December 16, 2023, 11:27:36 AM
That's not the way it works. Organizations (for-profit) are there to make money, each position performs to the highest level within their responsibilities to get the desired outcome. Unless Steve is the CEO, he is charged with winning games. Other qualified people focus on sales, finance, HR, etc. that should all add to the bottom line.
So Kerr could.be a mass murderer, as long as they win games, he stays?
Quote from: lawdog77 on December 16, 2023, 11:33:03 AM
So Kerr could.be a mass murderer, as long as they win games, he stays?
Okay, this is getting weird.
Quote from: lawdog77 on December 16, 2023, 11:33:03 AM
So Kerr could.be a mass murderer, as long as they win games, he stays?
If the money spending public is on his side, yeah probably
Quote from: WhiteTrash on December 16, 2023, 11:38:15 AM
Okay, this is getting weird.
Well you did say Kerr's sole job is to win games. I am saying its more than that.
Quote from: lawdog77 on December 16, 2023, 11:40:43 AM
Well you did say Kerr's sole job is to win games. I am saying its more than that.
LOL! Ok I'll play along.
Kerr's responsibilities:
1. wake up every morning
2. eat breakfast
3. drive safely to work
4. pay taxes
5. wear pants on the sideline
.
.
.
.
::)
I think Kerr has tried to downplay/excuse Draymond's behavior in the past to try and squeeze every ounce out of this core he can. I don't think he wants to alienate Draymond and kick off the rebuild.
Draymond has just started ramping it up to the point you can't really turn a blind eye anymore. At least that's my opinion.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 16, 2023, 08:36:44 AM
I love Steve Kerr. Great coach, better person
He actually is a real good guy.
But he certainly enabled Green's behavior over the years, and now the organization is kind of screwed -- not only because of Draymond's issues but because everybody who matters is 106 years old. The Warriors are the early-'90s Celtics ... except maybe not quite as good.
OKC is for real. Maybe Minny is too but this Thunder team could be really scary the next few years. I'm not sure what they'll do with Giddey, but to have three players under 25 this good is amazing. And they can play on both ends of the floor. Holmgren had 9 blocks tonight. I'm sure Wemby will get ROY but you could make a legitimate argument that Holmgren has been better to this point.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 16, 2023, 10:40:25 PM
OKC is for real. Maybe Minny is too but this Thunder team could be really scary the next few years. I'm not sure what they'll do with Giddey, but to have three players under 25 this good is amazing. And they can play on both ends of the floor. Holmgren had 9 blocks tonight. I'm sure Wemby will get ROY but you could make a legitimate argument that Holmgren has been better to this point.
Ive watched like 5% of NBA games so far and can say definitively the Wolves are better than the thunder this year
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 16, 2023, 10:40:25 PM
OKC is for real. Maybe Minny is too but this Thunder team could be really scary the next few years. I'm not sure what they'll do with Giddey, but to have three players under 25 this good is amazing. And they can play on both ends of the floor. Holmgren had 9 blocks tonight. I'm sure Wemby will get ROY but you could make a legitimate argument that Holmgren has been better to this point.
I don't think it's illegal in Oklahoma to date minors. It's a pretty conservative Christian state
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 17, 2023, 08:51:59 AM
Ive watched like 5% of NBA games so far and can say definitively the Wolves are better than the thunder this year
Give it a week or two and you'll be calling for the coach to be fired and a couple starters to be cut. :)
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 17, 2023, 08:53:33 AM
I don't think it's illegal in Oklahoma to date minors. It's a pretty conservative Christian state
I think the minor was in Los Angeles.
Quote from: Jockey on December 17, 2023, 09:24:52 AM
Give it a week or two and you'll be calling for the coach to be fired and a couple starters to be cut. :)
Ive actually met Finch good dude
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 13, 2023, 10:24:02 AM
He's a member of a protected class, so a minor slap is nothin'. Plus, the NBA is a media whore and any news that keeps it in the forefront, is good news. As for Green, suspend him for the remainder of the season and sentence him to anger management classes with volunteer work in a homeless shelter and food pantry. GS, if they any balls, would peddle his ass. Nurkic should press assault and battery charges, hey?
I agree with this analysis
https://twitter.com/Stoltzy3/status/1736574233717657843?t=Ezc5CtyzVSKKLjsl29_OuA&s=19
Well played Bucks, well played
Hope da Bucks didant fook up the game ball thing again vs Rockets, hey?
Ant getting exposed for dropping 100K on abortions.
More of a moral issue rather than legal policy issue though
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 18, 2023, 11:59:52 AM
Ant getting exposed for dropping 100K on abortions.
More of a moral issue rather than legal policy issue though
For someone who is not a Timberwolves fan, you seem to follow them quite closely. Most people here aren't a fan of the Timberwolves, yet you are the only one who seems to post about them. And you do it a lot.
Quote from: withoutbias on December 18, 2023, 02:49:05 PM
For someone who is not a Timberwolves fan, you seem to follow them quite closely. Most people here aren't a fan of the Timberwolves, yet you are the only one who seems to post about them. And you do it a lot.
I mean its been trending all over social media for the last 24 hours you idiot
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 18, 2023, 02:59:02 PM
I mean its been trending all over social media for the last 24 hours you idiot
Right. Everyone has seen it. Nobody runs to Scoop to post about it because nobody cares about the Timberwolves.
Well, except for you. The guy who claims to not be a fan of them, but constantly posts about them.
Quote from: withoutbias on December 18, 2023, 03:28:55 PM
Right. Everyone has seen it. Nobody runs to Scoop to post about it because nobody cares about the Timberwolves.
Well, except for you. The guy who claims to not be a fan of them, but constantly posts about them.
I posted it like 16 hours later. Yup, I ran to it.
I know intelligence has never been your strong suit. But let me know in the last 30 days what other NBA players have went viral for a 100K abortion. You know, just to show that I cherry pick reporting.
Here is the list of top articles on ESPN NBA page
Steph's 3-pointer streak ends after 268 games
Former UNC star Eric Montross, 52, dies of cancer
Abdul-Jabbar (hip) faces 3 months of recovery
Ex-NBA star Cousins signs with team in Taiwan
T'Wolves' Edwards walks back abortion comments
Giannis passes Kareem on Bucks' rebound list
So to post a top news story in the NBA 2023/2024 thread my options were Kareems hip surgery(off topic), the sad death of a college basketball star(off topic), Cousins literally signing somehwere other than the NBA(off topic). Curry not making a 3.......LOL and happened 2 days ago. Or Giannis getting rebounds.
The options were obviously endless. Just admit you're an obsessive idiot and lets move on.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 18, 2023, 04:17:05 PM
I posted it like 16 hours later. Yup, I ran to it.
I know intelligence has never been your strong suit. But let me know in the last 30 days what other NBA players have went viral for a 100K abortion. You know, just to show that I cherry pick reporting.
Here is the list of top articles on ESPN NBA page
Steph's 3-pointer streak ends after 268 games
Former UNC star Eric Montross, 52, dies of cancer
Abdul-Jabbar (hip) faces 3 months of recovery
Ex-NBA star Cousins signs with team in Taiwan
T'Wolves' Edwards walks back abortion comments
Giannis passes Kareem on Bucks' rebound list
So to post a top news story in the NBA 2023/2024 thread my options were Kareems hip surgery(off topic), the sad death of a college basketball star(off topic), Cousins literally signing somehwere other than the NBA(off topic). Curry not making a 3.......LOL and happened 2 days ago. Or Giannis getting rebounds.
The options were obviously endless. Just admit you're an obsessive idiot and lets move on.
So just so I have this straight, you post the biggest NBA news every day on here? I must miss it quite often, apologies for that.
Why didn't you jump on Scoop when Zion faced a somewhat similar situation a couple of months ago? Or did I miss the daily update from you that day?
Wemby out against the Bucks tomorrow because we can't have nice things
Quote from: withoutbias on December 18, 2023, 06:50:18 PM
So just so I have this straight, you post the biggest NBA news every day on here? I must miss it quite often, apologies for that.
Why didn't you jump on Scoop when Zion faced a somewhat similar situation a couple of months ago? Or did I miss the daily update from you that day?
Yeah, post literally all the news of what player is porking who (with details for the health care professionals) or don't bother at all PGs!
I know, don't wish injuries and all that, but it's going to be karma when Embiid breaks something doing sh!t like this https://twitter.com/JacobLabib18/status/1736903963696587027?t=Hzg4gwOOZcBNo6OEhPZejQ&s=19 (https://twitter.com/JacobLabib18/status/1736903963696587027?t=Hzg4gwOOZcBNo6OEhPZejQ&s=19)
Quote from: GB Warrior on December 18, 2023, 08:08:19 PM
I know, don't wish injuries and all that, but it's going to be karma when Embiid breaks something doing sh!t like this https://twitter.com/JacobLabib18/status/1736903963696587027?t=Hzg4gwOOZcBNo6OEhPZejQ&s=19 (https://twitter.com/JacobLabib18/status/1736903963696587027?t=Hzg4gwOOZcBNo6OEhPZejQ&s=19)
Dude is wild. If shredding Danny Green's knee didn't stop this, nothing will.
Quote from: withoutbias on December 18, 2023, 06:50:18 PM
So just so I have this straight, you post the biggest NBA news every day on here? I must miss it quite often, apologies for that.
Why didn't you jump on Scoop when Zion faced a somewhat similar situation a couple of months ago? Or did I miss the daily update from you that day?
So per usual, you got nothing.
You're obsessed with me. It causes you to lash out and say stupid sh it. Also the Wolves have like the best record in the NBA so why would I deny being a fan if I am one
Oh I know, because your hobbies include baseless rape allegations and harassing this board with stupidity. Seek help.
I havent watched the Pacers like at all. But boy do they ever play defense?
Every time I see their scores its some crazy amount allowed.
127 for the season is nuts.
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on December 18, 2023, 07:56:09 PM
Yeah, post literally all the news of what player is porking who (with details for the health care professionals) or don't bother at all PGs!
Exactly ha
Im a massive timberwolves guy because I said Edwards is paying 100,000 to rando models.
Thank god I didnt post anything game related.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 18, 2023, 09:07:53 PM
So per usual, you got nothing.
You're obsessed with me. It causes you to lash out and say stupid sh it. Also the Wolves have like the best record in the NBA so why would I deny being a fan if I am one
Oh I know, because your hobbies include baseless rape allegations and harassing this board with stupidity. Seek help.
lol. Do you ever go back and reread game threads? You should probably do some self reflection...
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 18, 2023, 09:10:57 PM
Exactly ha
Im a massive timberwolves guy because I said Edwards is paying 100,000 to rando models.
Thank god I didnt post anything game related.
Bruh. Would you like me to go back and quote my own post with all the quotes about the TWolves? You post 99 times on the TWolves in here and then say you're not a fan because you make one stupid comment about the Pacers. Lol.
Quote from: withoutbias on December 18, 2023, 09:11:14 PM
lol. Do you ever go back and reread game threads? You should probably do some self reflection...
Alright so you fold.
Now go obsess over someone else.
Me and Jimmy need a night off.
Quote from: withoutbias on December 18, 2023, 09:12:10 PM
Bruh. Would you like me to go back and quote my own post with all the quotes about the TWolves? You post 99 times on the TWolves in here and then say you're not a fan because you make one stupid comment about the Pacers. Lol.
So the Pacers do not allow like 127 ppg and are good defensively???
How badly am I in your head?? You stalk me. Therapy now. Im actually worried you may do something rash.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 18, 2023, 09:19:06 PM
So the Pacers do not allow like 127 ppg and are good defensively???
How badly am I in your head?? You stalk me. Therapy now. Im actually worried you may do something rash.
How many Scoopers have you told need therapy? It's your go to lol.
Quote from: withoutbias on December 18, 2023, 09:30:10 PM
How many Scoopers have you told need therapy? It's your go to lol.
You(obsessed with me and Jimmy)
Elon(Obsessed with Wojo)
Think youll pick up on a theme.
Quote from: withoutbias on December 18, 2023, 09:30:10 PM
How many Scoopers have you told need therapy? It's your go to lol.
Everyone should have someone to talk to. No shame in therapy
Appears Grizzlies had some Ja magic in his return tonight
Think they may be down too many games though
I heard a little blip about Larry Bird that made me think what could have been. His college stats were absolutely ridiculous. 30, 13, and 5? That's in an era where there was no 3pt line or shot clock. He didn't get to the NBA until he was 23. Imagine if he took the leap 2 years earlier and his back didn't become a disaster? He's before my time as was Magic but I don't think I agree with this narrative that Magic was automatically netter or much better stated by Fluffy I think. Kareem was without question significantly better than McHale, even if Kareem was slightly psst his prime. And Worthy was also a freaking stud, correct? No one thinks Parrish is better than him as a #3.
That's what great players did in that era. George McGinnis averaged 30/15 as a freshman in that era.
Yeah. No one played defense. You'd be shocked at the number of uncontested jumpers that players took then.
Bird was great, Muggs. Nobody knows if his back woulda given out even earlier if he had come out of college earlier. It's an impossible hypothetical.
Magic was great, too. I happen to think he was a little more impactful but that's just an opinion. Everyone has 'em. Don't sweat it.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 20, 2023, 03:48:06 PM
Yeah. No one played defense. You'd be shocked at the number of uncontested jumpers that players took then.
And don't forget that the ball was stuffed back then.
Bird was probably the best shooter of his generation. NBA didn't emphasize the 3 like it does now. If it did, and they routinely ran sets to get him 3's, he would have been filthier. Not the GOAT, but one of the greats. All time trash talker. Look him up on YouTube.
Quote from: MU82 on December 20, 2023, 04:20:36 PM
Bird was great, Muggs. Nobody knows if his back woulda given out even earlier if he had come out of college earlier. It's an impossible hypothetical.
Magic was great, too. I happen to think he was a little more impactful but that's just an opinion. Everyone has 'em. Don't sweat it.
I give Magic a slight edge too - but both were great players, top 10 all timers.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 20, 2023, 07:18:15 PM
I give Magic a slight edge too - but both were great players, top 10 all timers.
Loved watching them both. Examples 1 and 1A (in whatever order) of superstars who made their teammates much better.
I'll take Bird, but it is close enough that I'm not willing to argue.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 20, 2023, 07:18:15 PM
I give Magic a slight edge too - but both were great players, top 10 all timers.
You're right, Lenny. But for some top 10 isn't enough.
Who was a better defender Bird or Magic? Didn't Magic guard the opposing 2G a lot? From a historical standpoint I almost separate Wilt and Magic from the rest of the all-time greats. They did things no one else did before them and in Magic's case his size at that position was the ultimate weapon and basically impossible to handle. I do think Bird's game is more adaptable to this era. I have Curry in my top 5. I think everyone would have Jordan, Lebron, Kareem. After that the slots are really tough.
Neither one was a stellar on ball defender. Adequate for the time, not lockdown. Neither was exceptionally quick. Magic used his length to compensate for a lack of speed defending opposing guards. Played off of them. Bird was very good at positioning and getting in passing lanes.
Seriously, though, muggsy, if you want to be entertained, Google Larry Bird left handed game. Or Larry Bird trash talk. A good way to kill an hour.
Both had exceptional court vision as well.
Quote from: tower912 on December 21, 2023, 07:38:57 AM
Neither one was a stellar on ball defender. Adequate for the time, not lockdown. Neither was exceptionally quick. Magic used his length to compensate for a lack of speed defending opposing guards. Played off of them. Bird was very good at positioning and getting in passing lanes.
Seriously, though, muggsy, if you want to be entertained, Google Larry Bird left handed game. Or Larry Bird trash talk. A good way to kill an hour.
I watched part of that! That was very badass.
Congrats to the Pistons. What's the record?
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 21, 2023, 09:11:18 PM
Congrats to the Pistons. What's the record?
26...so one more
Congrats to the Pistons.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 27, 2023, 03:33:34 PM
Congrats to the Pistons.
Am I seeing this right that the Pistons actually lost?
If so, why are you congratulating them?
That's the exact opposite of what they're trying to do.
Does this not make sense to anyone else?
Explain.
Medieval.
Darkness.
WWATLT?
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 27, 2023, 04:20:03 PM
Am I seeing this right that the Pistons actually lost?
If so, why are you congratulating them?
That's the exact opposite of what they're trying to do.
Does this not make sense to anyone else?
Explain.
Medieval.
Darkness.
WWATLT?
Well, if youre gonna do something poorly might as well make it record breaking...
I think that was his congratulations.
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 27, 2023, 04:20:03 PM
Am I seeing this right that the Pistons actually lost?
If so, why are you congratulating them?
Sarcasm can be a tricky concept to understand.
Quote from: Jockey on December 27, 2023, 04:34:33 PM
Sarcasm can be a tricky concept to understand.
I was really hoping there was a lot of sarcasm being posted by all. If not..... :-\
Quote from: Jockey on December 27, 2023, 04:34:33 PM
Sarcasm can be a tricky concept to understand.
They need to wake up.
They need to focus.
They need to attack.
Violence.
Step on their throats.
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 27, 2023, 04:55:25 PM
They need to wake up.
They need to focus.
They need to attack.
Violence.
Step on their throats.
Yeah, it's not that hard
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 27, 2023, 05:02:19 PM
Yeah, it's not that hard
I'd have the problem solved immediately. It's all part of my 5 point plan.
Toronto at home to close out 2023 is the best chance they get for awhile. Cause then they have a West Coast swing where they will be close to double digit dogs each night.
https://nypost.com/2023/12/27/sports/dog-bites-nuggets-forward-aaron-gordons-face-on-christmas/amp/
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 27, 2023, 04:20:03 PM
Am I seeing this right that the Pistons actually lost?
If so, why are you congratulating them?
That's the exact opposite of what they're trying to do.
Does this not make sense to anyone else?
Explain.
Medieval.
Darkness.
WWATLT?
My maxims aren't the problem.
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 27, 2023, 03:33:34 PM
Congrats to the Pistons.
time to bring back henry-put him in coach...only if wally were available though
Quote from: MuggsyB on December 28, 2023, 07:48:11 AM
My maxims aren't the problem.
I just asked a question, why are you attacking me?
Celtics down 19 to the Pistons at halftime
Ok fine I'll turn on Bill Simmons notifications
Quote from: GB Warrior on December 28, 2023, 07:40:24 PM
Ok fine I'll turn on Bill Simmons notifications
You can turn them off
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 28, 2023, 07:33:25 PM
Celtics down 19 to the Pistons at halftime
Order being restored.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 28, 2023, 07:57:48 PM
You can turn them off
Still think they should get an in-game tournament banner for the first half
Quote from: GB Warrior on December 28, 2023, 08:03:14 PM
Still think they should get an in-game tournament banner for the first half
The Lakers would.
knicks acquire og anunoby, precious achiuwa, and malachi flynn for rj barrett and immanuel quickley and a 2nd round draft pick, but it's from detroit
i was wondering what the knicks were doing with quickley as his PT was diminished from last year.
Pistons nightmare is over
Pistons end losing streak, beat shorthanded Raptors by 2
How is it that every college coach in the world can figure out how to use TV timeouts to get their star player(s) a few extra minutes of rest, but AG can't figure out how to not have Dame and Giannis each sit 5 straight game minutes, with 3 of them overlapping each other?
Giannis sits from 2 minutes left in the 3rd until 9 minutes left in the game, Dame sits the first 5 minutes of the fourth, and the Bucks go -20 in those minutes every game. Neither sits a second from there on out.
How about you do what every competent coach in the world does and sit your guy at the last whistle before a TV timeout, keep them out after the timeout, and then get them back in the next whistle. You can get 5 straight minutes of rest with only 1-2 minutes of game time being missed, or you can get them 5 straight minutes of rest with 5 minutes of game time being missed. AG opts for the latter.
SGA comparisons? The dude can ball. He seems to do everything pretty well.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 02, 2024, 09:27:21 PM
SGA comparisons? The dude can ball. He seems to do everything pretty well.
Michael Jordan
Pacers up big on the Bucks. What's the local opinion on Griffin?
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 03, 2024, 08:13:57 PM
Pacers up big on the Bucks. What's the local opinion on Griffin?
I try not to overreact to new star pairings with new coaches in the first 60 games or so, but there's really been nothing to indicate he's good enough. When they win it seems to be talent related. Nothing they do schematically seems better than other teams.
Talent may be enough if the defense improves over the next 50. But I don't think they get to the finals because he out-coached anybody.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 03, 2024, 08:13:57 PM
Pacers up big on the Bucks. What's the local opinion on Griffin?
Flawed roster, imo. Old, too. Lotta tread on them tires. Not sure scheme matters much as far as the team is constructed. I didn't see a title team with this roster. Others will disagree and maybe a different coach would have mattered but unless they can upgrade at the deadline, not sure it's more than ECF at best
The few times I've watched them I thought their defense looked mediocre. Middleton should be really good as a #3 but maybe he'll never be the same player after the injury?
Trading Jrue for Dame means you are just hoping to score a lot more because defensively it's not going to be great.
And I think Middleton is just getting old.
Coaching is the biggest issue with the Bucks, but it's far from the only issue. The fact that Khris Middleton is your closing stretch defensive "stopper" on Tyerese Haliburton tells you everything you need to know about the defense. The Bucks have two First Team All Defensive bigs on the roster, yet get beat on the boards consistently and give up a boatload of paint points every night. And then the transition defense is as bad as I've ever seen.
The whole narrative coming out of training camp was that there was no competitiveness in Bud's camp and this is so much better. It certainly doesn't show on the court. Giannis plays hard every night. Andre Jackson Jr. plays hard every night. Brook plays hard but can be exploited depending on the matchup. Otherwise there's a lot of guys who shimmy over getting back to defend.
Would be a lot more surprised by an ECF appearance than I would a first round exit.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 03, 2024, 08:38:51 PM
Coaching is the biggest issue with the Bucks, but it's far from the only issue. The fact that Khris Middleton is your closing stretch defensive "stopper" on Tyerese Haliburton tells you everything you need to know about the defense. The Bucks have two First Team All Defensive bigs on the roster, yet get beat on the boards consistently and give up a boatload of paint points every night. And then the transition defense is as bad as I've ever seen.
The whole narrative coming out of training camp was that there was no competitiveness in Bud's camp and this is so much better. It certainly doesn't show on the court. Giannis plays hard every night. Andre Jackson Jr. plays hard every night. Brook plays hard but can be exploited depending on the matchup. Otherwise there's a lot of guys who shimmy over getting back to defend.
Would be a lot more surprised by an ECF appearance than I would a first round exit.
Any trading options?
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 03, 2024, 08:54:46 PM
Any trading options?
Not really with the second apron, very few tradeable picks, and not really any good contracts.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 03, 2024, 09:42:07 PM
Not really with the second apron, very few tradeable picks, and not really any good contracts.
I haven't been impressed with Griffin either. I also don't believe the defensive drop off with the loss of Holiday explains 4 losses to Indiana and some of their other problems. I think getting Lillard was a no brainer and as far as I can tell Beasley has been pretty good. Do you make a bold move and hand the job to Doc Rivers before the All-Star break? :)
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 04, 2024, 08:37:54 AM
I haven't been impressed with Griffin either. I also don't believe the defensive drop off with the loss of Holiday explains 4 losses to Indiana and some of their other problems.
I don't think it does either. I was specifically answering your question about the defense.
Dame was a no-question addition yes. The last group had topped out. But yeah I am beginning to think the Griffin addition was a mistake.
Hiring a rookie HC was a massive gamble, no matter who it was. But the fact that this cat got passed over a dozen times shoulda told them something.
They do next to nothing well defensively. And a good deal of that is roster... Khris moves like I do, Beasley and Lillard are minus defenders, and the bench unit of Payne/Portis/Connaughton are all bad on that end. But then he has them do sh*t like chase 10% three-point shooter TJ McConnell over screens out on the perimeter and get murdered at the rim.
Chit can Griffin with a severance of a used Bike, hey?
https://x.com/awfulannouncing/status/1743089300726845722?s=20
I absolutely love Harlan and Miller.
Bucks bailed out by spurs missing wide open 3s in consecutive possessions.
Wemby stuffing Giannis at the rim was interesting.
The Bucks holding on vs an atrocious Spurs team is somewhat troubling.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 04, 2024, 09:36:20 PM
The Bucks holding on vs an atrocious Spurs team is somewhat troubling.
Not really. In pro sports, you just need to win games. There's no NET that affects your seed. Really good teams lose to atrocious teams all the time.
Quote from: MU82 on January 04, 2024, 09:52:40 PM
Not really. In pro sports, you just need to win games. There's no NET that affects your seed. Really good teams lose to atrocious teams all the time.
Eh, I think the biggest concern is that the way they continue to play doesn't look like it will translate to the playoffs. They've looked pretty mediocre most of the year despite racking up wins. I certainly feel much less confident they have a championship caliber team than I did when they got Dame.
I gave Muggsy a hard time last year about the regular season, but their warts definitely showed up in the playoffs. This team doesn't really look like one that can just flip a switch.
That game winner by Jokic was incredible. I guess he's no longer in a shooting slump. 41/44 the last 4 games.
Just one more amazing feat for the best basketball player in the world.
https://sports.yahoo.com/nikola-jokic-hits-wild-40-foot-buzzer-beater-to-complete-comeback-lift-nuggets-past-warriors-053449535.html?.tsrc=1317
That every team in the NBA passed on him, with many passing on him twice, is still mind-blowing all these years later.
Quote from: MU82 on January 05, 2024, 06:58:20 AM
Just one more amazing feat for the basketball player in the world.
https://sports.yahoo.com/nikola-jokic-hits-wild-40-foot-buzzer-beater-to-complete-comeback-lift-nuggets-past-warriors-053449535.html?.tsrc=1317
That every team in the NBA passed on him, with many passing on him twice, is still mind-blowing all these years later.
He may nor have called bank but at the same time it wasn't lucky. The guy has tremendous touch.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 05, 2024, 07:23:50 AM
He may nor have called bank but at the same time it wasn't lucky. The guy has tremendous touch.
Agree. There's always a little luck involved with those kinds of shots, but I promise you that he has practiced them often.
A few years ago, I coached an 8th-grader who practiced half-court shots pretty much every day ... and darn if she didn't make a couple in games. Were they "lucky"? Not really.
Quote from: MU82 on January 05, 2024, 06:58:20 AM
Just one more amazing feat for the basketball player in the world.
I agree that he is one of the basketball players in the world.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on January 05, 2024, 05:08:35 PM
I agree that he is one of the basketball players in the world.
I was just letting my fellow Scoopers decide how to rank him.
Draymond reinstated. LOL.
Bucks down 14 to Houston.
Sweet Jesus.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 06, 2024, 09:01:27 PM
Bucks down 14 to Houston.
Sweet Jesus.
Can't wait for the Chris Haynes "Bucks in disarray" piece to drop.
This team is a mess. Totally disjointed.
Terrible decision to hire Griffin. No worries doe, #34 jettison his ass, aina?
Adam Silver supposedly talked Draymond out of retirement. Lol.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 08, 2024, 04:14:10 PM
Adam Silver supposedly talked Draymond out of retirement. Lol.
Makes sense, he's a hell of a revenue stream for the league office.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 08, 2024, 04:25:20 PM
Makes sense, he's a hell of a revenue stream for the league office.
(https://i.giphy.com/NEvPzZ8bd1V4Y.webp)
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 04, 2024, 06:54:05 PM
Chit can Griffin with a severance of a used Bike, hey?
I'm ready to call it
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 08, 2024, 07:37:40 PM
I'm ready to call it
Yeah, I'm thinking he's not the guy.
Looks like da team has quit on da dude, aina?
Holy Hell. 77-46? To Utah? In Milwaukee?
Dame or not tonight, down 31 at half to a sub 500 team at home is ridiculous. They have got to fire him. Red flags ever since training camp. Would be nice if Giannis went to Horst and ownership and make his plea. It will be an early offseason if they don't pull the plug. Do it now and there may still be time to get things in order and make a real run at it.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 08, 2024, 08:08:11 PM
Looks like da team has quit on da dude, aina?
Sure does. All the telltale signs of that.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on January 08, 2024, 08:37:12 PM
Dame or not tonight, down 31 at half to a sub 500 team at home is ridiculous. They have got to fire him. Red flags ever since training camp. Would be nice if Giannis went to Horst and ownership and make his plea. It will be an early offseason if they don't pull the plug. Do it now and there may still be time to get things in order and make a real run at it.
Agreed Hutch.
Still can him if they win this game. :)
Ja Morant 2023 season we hardly knew ye.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on January 08, 2024, 09:00:20 PM
Ja Morant 2023 season we hardly knew ye.
Same night Haliburton got hurt. Taking some time off to finish the job
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/0acda1376cc10a208b4cb3c5af691417/tumblr_mwy1cx40SV1sbrtquo1_500.gif)
Could the Bucks hire someone decent immediately?
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 08, 2024, 09:52:23 PM
Could the Bicks hire someone decent immediately?
Terry Stotts is available
So is Bud.
I'd take 99% or Scoopers over AG.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 08, 2024, 09:52:23 PM
Could the Bicks hire someone decent immediately?
Doc? Not a huge fan as a coach, but he's an upgrade no question.
Stotts who was smart enough to see the train wreck coming.
Atkinson who was a finalist for the job in spring.
Any of the three an almost certain upgrade.
Those of you who are far closer to this than I am ... is there serious buzz about the Bucks dumping Griffin, or is this just fans wishing it would happen?
There's always Jim Boylen
Quote from: MU82 on January 08, 2024, 11:03:01 PM
Those of you who are far closer to this than I am ... is there serious buzz about the Bucks dumping Griffin, or is this just fans wishing it would happen?
There isn't serious buzz or even buzz yet about it up here. Stephen A's comments about Griffin "going to get himself fired..." was picked up by the Journal/ Sentinel. That was just before last night's horrific performance. But that's really all right now.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on January 09, 2024, 02:55:46 AM
There isn't serious buzz or even buzz yet about it up here. Stephen A's comments about Griffin "going to get himself fired..." was picked up by the Journal/ Sentinel. That was just before last night's horrific performance. But that's really all right now.
Thanks. Milwaukee fans deserve better.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on January 08, 2024, 10:15:39 PM
Doc? Not a huge fan as a coach, but he's an upgrade no question.
Stotts who was smart enough to see the train wreck coming.
Atkinson who was a finalist for the job in spring.
Any of the three an almost certain upgrade.
AG seemingly has no idea what he's doing Hutch. Am I missing something? I thought it was an odd hire at first but did not expect a complete train wreck. Doc would be an upgrade.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 09, 2024, 06:59:02 AM
AG seemingly has no idea what he's doing Hutch. Am I missing something? I thought it was an odd hire at first but did not expect a complete train wreck. Doc would be an upgrade.
It seemed like his time had come to become a head coach. But you're not missing anything. All you have to do is listen to those inside- Portis, Middleton, and Giannis have all spoken out pretty candidly with insights how poor his coaching ability is. Then Stotts walking away suddenly mid training camp was the most damning event.
I just doubt they'll have the guts to pull the plug and it will be another lost opportunity with Giannis in his prime.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on January 09, 2024, 07:26:34 AM
It seemed like his time had come to become a head coach. But you're not missing anything. All you have to do is listen to those inside- Portis, Middleton, and Giannis have all spoken out pretty candidly with insights how poor his coaching ability is. Then Stotts walking away suddenly mid training camp was the most damning event.
I just doubt they'll have the guts to pull the plug and it will be another lost opportunity with Giannis in his prime.
Your last point is the key and must be understood by management. If they sit on their ass and do nothing it would be a bad decision imo. Have some guts, acknowledge what's at stake, reach out to some of these guys and find a replacement before the all-star break. You simply cannot waste another year of prime Gianni. If necessary we can take over Hutch. :)
Well, supposedly AG was Giannis' pick, so he will probably need to be onboard. AG seems like Wojo. Career assistant who seemed ready for the next step, but in over his head.
The message boards have been ready to fire him for awhile. The Stotts debacle was a big red flag. I don't know about the general public/media, but this stretch probably will start those talks.
The Bucks aren't going to do anything based on "buzz" or media pressure anyway. They will look at the locker room too to make sure any move they make has at least the blessing of GA and DL.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 09, 2024, 08:05:50 AM
The Bucks aren't going to do anything based on "buzz" or media pressure anyway. They will look at the locker room too to make sure any move they make has at least the blessing of GA and DL.
Will they look at the fact that they gave up 77 first half points to the Jazz at home? I would imagine Giannis and Dame will give their blessings to make a change.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 09, 2024, 08:20:06 AM
Will they look at the fact that they gave up 77 first half points to the Jazz at home?
In the context of the larger season, of course.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 09, 2024, 08:20:06 AM
I would imagine Giannis and Dame will give their blessings to make a change.
I have no idea.
Taking this with a large grain of salt, but I saw a post on a Bucks message board that someone talked to an insider and said Dame is basically done with Griffin. I think Giannis will be a little tougher to convince since he's so loyal and may have picked Griffin.
It's tough to tell if he's a bad coach or this team is just old and can't defend. Middleton has looked pretty slow out there when I've watched.
Quote from: cheebs09 on January 09, 2024, 08:46:36 AM
Taking this with a large grain of salt, but I saw a post on a Bucks message board that someone talked to an insider and said Dame is basically done with Griffin. I think Giannis will be a little tougher to convince since he's so loyal and may have picked Griffin.
Middleton being nowhere near his all-star level is problem.
It's tough to tell if he's a bad coach or this team is just old and can't defend. Middleton has looked pretty slow out there when I've watched.
Like others have said, Giannis hand picked AG. Giannis is going to need to go to the FO and tell them he's done with AG for them to fire AG. And that won't happen this year and probably not next year.
Also, if they are going to fire AG mid season, they'll just elevate an assistant to interim. They aren't going out and hiring Doc or some unemployed head coach right now. If they are going to make a hire, it'll be in the offseason when every coach who might be interested in the Bucks job has the chance.
AG is a terrible coach and should've never got the job. BUT this roster was never going to win a title. Every move the Bucks made in the offseason was with the intent to run it back. Beasley and Cam Payne made sense as signings when you had Jrue as your PG. Bring some shooting and scoring punch off the bench. Then they went and traded for Dame and those signings make zero sense. So they'll use the buyout market and probably make a minor trade to get them closer, but they're going to need to have a good offseason to remake what is around Dame and Giannis to make that pairing make sense.
It's gonna have to get uglier before they make a move at HC.
Horst is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If they have any chance of rescuing this, I think you have to move Pat and Bobby, possibly Brook. That'll be a tough blow to the chemistry. It's just a question of do you make those moves to fit Griff's style, unsure if he's the guy?
Middleton's offensive numbers aren't bad in 25 mins. I guess his problem is he can't guard anyone now? What's the explanation on that? My few times watching the Bucks it seemed to me that their defensive philosophy is problematic because they essentially allow wide open threes.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 09, 2024, 10:27:51 AM
Middleton's offensive numbers aren't bad in 25 mins. I guess his problem is he can't guard anyone now? What's the explanation on that? My few times watching the Bucks it seemed to me that their defensive philosophy is problematic because they essentially allow wide open threes.
Khris is in his 30s but his legs are in their 50s.
They gave up a bunch of open threes under Bud, but wanted to contain attempts at the rim. They're not doing either this year.
Giannis picked da wrong coach, aina?
Draymond "believes he can eliminate the antics". Will TNT do a docu about this similar to the Poole punch aftermath?
Spo isn't going anywhere.
Knew AG was a bad fit since the first two weeks. Knew Middleton was done since his last injury. Strange that the guys paid the big bucks won't acknowledge it.
This, from Yahoo Sports, also could be on the NHL thread. Cool little story ...
There have been plenty of brother duos in the NBA and even more in the NHL. But there's only one NBA-NHL brother tandem: Knicks guard Quentin Grimes and Canucks defenseman Tyler Myers.
Grimes and Myers are maternal half-brothers. Together with their mother, Tonja Stelly, they make up quite the trio. Three last names, two sports, one family.
Grimes, 23, grew up in Houston with Stelly, where he was a five-star recruit. He was taken with the 25th pick in the 2021 NBA draft after leading Houston to the Final Four.
Myers, 33, was born in Houston but grew up in Calgary with his father. He was drafted 12th overall in the 2008 NHL draft and won the Calder Trophy (Rookie of the Year) in 2010.
The brothers' schedules aligned this week at Madison Square Garden, with the Canucks visiting the Rangers on Tuesday and the Knicks hosting the Trail Blazers on Wednesday. Stelly made the trip from Texas to watch both games, and Grimes joined her on Tuesday to support Myers.
Myers had an assist in Vancouver's 6-3 win over New York.
Grimes had 17 points in New York's 112-84 win over Portland.
Who's taller? You'd think the hoops-playing sibling would have the height advantage, but that's not the case. The 6-foot-5 Grimes is slightly shorter than the average NBA player, while the 6-foot-8 Myers is the tallest active player in the NHL.
The Raptors' coach rant is highly entertaining if you haven't seen it. Who is this Darko guy?
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 10, 2024, 08:47:06 AM
The Raptors' coach rant is highly entertaining if you haven't seen it. Who is this Darko guy?
If you go to an internet search engine and type in "Toronto Raptors basketball coach", many answers appear. I chose this one:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darko_Rajaković
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 10, 2024, 08:52:10 AM
If you go to an internet search engine and type in "Toronto Raptors basketball coach", many answers appear. I chose this one:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darko_Rajaković
That says nothing. Darko was not happy.
Dude wuz 100% correct. In fact, officiatin' in basketball, football, and baseball sucks major ass. Put sum of 'em robots in, hey?
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 10, 2024, 08:53:42 AM
That says nothing. Darko was not happy.
You asked who he is.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 10, 2024, 08:47:06 AM
Who is this Darko guy?
You'd think he'd be an expert at introducing opponents to darkness.
Quote from: MU82 on January 10, 2024, 09:52:51 AM
You'd think he'd be an expert at introducing opponents to darkness.
Groaner foul, apologize to the audience
The Bucks have 51 points and are up 28 on Boston with 9 mins left in the 2Q. Will they hold on?
Celtics playing the long game by keeping Griff employed
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 11, 2024, 07:41:56 PM
Celtics playing the long game by keeping Griff employed
For point.
Right on, Stacey King
My son was at the Bulls game last night. He said he was embarrassed to be a Bulls fan after that "disgusting display."
I saw it later on Sportscenter, and it was pathetic.
Yep. I get that Jordan didn't like the guy, and of course he couldn't give his side of the story in "The Last Dance" because he was dead, but outside of Jordan he built those teams. Especially the second three-peat.
It's really sad that Jordan has to dwell on his frustrations at the end rather than just focus on the positives.
A total and complete embarrassment displayed by Bulls fans last night.
BTW the only argument I have with Stacy is him saying that Chicago fans are not like that. New York and Philadelphia fans are. Well apparently Bulls fans ARE like that. Don't pander.
Yeah, I don't think Milwaukee fans snuck down just so they could boo Krause with his widow watching.
If King had said that ALL Chicago fans weren't like that, or even most weren't, that would have been OK. But he didn't. And he has no clue what most NY or Philly fans are like, either.
The entire concept behind the Ring of Honor was stupid from the get go. They have retired numbers/banners/a statue honoring guys already. Get out of here with this Ring of Honor crap.
Hastily put together. No way Pippen was going to go, but if you don't have a commitment from Jordan showing up, why bother? If they wanted to honor the 95-96 Bulls while Kerr is in town, fine.
Thelma Krause getting booed was just icing on the disaster. Bulls, and the fans that booed, deserve every ounce of criticism.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on January 13, 2024, 08:48:07 AM
The entire concept behind the Ring of Honor was stupid from the get go. They have retired numbers/banners/a statue honoring guys already. Get out of here with this Ring of Honor crap.
Hastily put together. No way Pippen was going to go, but if you don't have a commitment from Jordan showing up, why bother? If they wanted to honor the 95-96 Bulls while Kerr is in town, fine.
Thelma Krause getting booed was just icing on the disaster. Bulls, and the fans that booed, deserve every ounce of criticism.
I agree with all of your post.
The Bulls have almost never done anything to endear themselves to Chicago; from lack of any effort to win to utter arrogance to media and fans to cool appreciation for players. The organization sowed some of the seeds that blossomed in an embarrassment last night.
Leave the 'Ring of Honor' b.s. for the Cowboys. Pathetic copy-cat PR stunt.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 13, 2024, 08:32:09 AM
A total and complete embarrassment displayed by Bulls fans last night.
But not surprising. Society as a whole has become more self-absorbed and selfish. It seems more and more care only about what they feel and think "right now," and show less empathy, thought, and care for others.
I feel for Krause's family. They shouldn't have had to do that. And if you didn't like Krause, you could have just stayed silent.
What happens 10 years from now when, for whatever reason, Marquette has some kind of event/celebration and Wojo is introduced at Fiserv? Will thousands stand and boo? Jeesh, I hope not.
Quote from: MU82 on January 13, 2024, 10:49:10 AM
What happens 10 years from now when, for whatever reason, Marquette has some kind of event/celebration and Wojo is introduced at Fiserv? Will thousands stand and boo? Jeesh, I hope not.
There was a smattering of boos after the Butler game. Crean's image was booed for a decade on the video screen.
The fact of the matter is Jerry Reinsdorf never took the blame for dismantling that team. Always saying I offered Phil his chance to return while telling Krause to blow them up out of the other side of his mouth.
This reaction to Krause was predictable. It should have been a separate ceremony. Why celebrate the court greatness while honoring the business side of building and dismantling? No clue.
Also, they didn't even introduce each individual member of the '95-'96 team. Longley came from Australia for this, and they couldn't give him or other guys a 10 second intro and ovation.
Ridiculous.
Quote from: forgetful on January 13, 2024, 10:44:39 AM
But not surprising. Society as a whole has become more self-absorbed and selfish. It seems more and more care only about what they feel and think "right now," and show less empathy, thought, and care for others.
I feel for Krause's family. They shouldn't have had to do that. And if you didn't like Krause, you could have just stayed silent.
Or it has been that way for a very long time and we just have footage at our fingertips at all times.
Either way poor form by Bulls fans. Krause didn't do himself many favors at times with his messaging but he built a dynasty.
Read in the Athletic that they only planned it six weeks ago? That can't be right can it?
Quote from: MU82 on January 13, 2024, 10:49:10 AM
What happens 10 years from now when, for whatever reason, Marquette has some kind of event/celebration and Wojo is introduced at Fiserv? Will thousands stand and boo? Jeesh, I hope not.
There are people that would boo Markus Howard
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 13, 2024, 11:26:54 AM
Read in the Athletic that they only planned it six weeks ago? That can't be right can it?
No, that tracks for the Org
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on January 13, 2024, 11:34:09 AM
No, that tracks for the Org
Feels like a knee jerk reaction to the reduced attendance. I'm not joking.
Maybe a statue of Zach LaVine next to MJ's next?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 13, 2024, 11:44:25 AM
Feels like a knee jerk reaction to the reduced attendance. I'm not joking.
Maybe a statue of Zach LaVine next to MJ's next?
Lonzo Ball appreciation night and they hand out little models of knees rife with lead paint sponsored by a below average NW suburbs orthopedic clinic with poorly concealed mob ties.
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on January 13, 2024, 11:53:01 AM
Lonzo Ball appreciation night and they hand out little models of knees rife with lead paint sponsored by a below average NW suburbs orthopedic clinic with poorly concealed mob ties.
;D
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 13, 2024, 11:02:45 AM
The fact of the matter is Jerry Reinsdorf never took the blame for dismantling that team. Always saying I offered Phil his chance to return while telling Krause to blow them up out of the other side of his mouth.
This reaction to Krause was predictable. It should have been a separate ceremony. Why celebrate the court greatness while honoring the business side of building and dismantling? No clue.
Oh, I totally agree (and have said so on Scoop) about the way the Jerrys blew up the Bulls. Reinsdorf did Chicago dirty.
And I agree with you, Dish and others that the entire ceremony was ill-conceived and ultimately poorly conducted.
As for the booing ... maybe it was predictable that hundreds or however many idiots would boo a widow, but it's still shameful IMHO.
Even before Last Dance, Krause's legacy was complex and there wasn't a ton of love lost there. I get the lingering bad feelings.
That being said, it would have been crass and embarrassing to boo a video memory of him in recognition or something. To loudly and boisterously boo his geriatric widow is just beyond gross. I felt physically uncomfortable watching the video clip. I couldn't imagine the cringe being there in person
The NBA says the main finding from its study on load management:
Results from these analyses do not suggest that missing games for rest or load management — or having longer breaks between game participation — reduces future in-season injury risk," the report said, in bold type, in its summary.
"In addition, injury rates were not found to be higher during or immediately following periods of a dense schedule."
The report said that remained true even when factoring in things like player age, minutes played and injury history.
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-claims-no-link-between-load-management-and-injury-risk-in-report-003004551.html
Quote from: MU82 on January 14, 2024, 08:39:23 AM
The NBA says the main finding from its study on load management:
Results from these analyses do not suggest that missing games for rest or load management — or having longer breaks between game participation — reduces future in-season injury risk," the report said, in bold type, in its summary.
"In addition, injury rates were not found to be higher during or immediately following periods of a dense schedule."
The report said that remained true even when factoring in things like player age, minutes played and injury history.
https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-claims-no-link-between-load-management-and-injury-risk-in-report-003004551.html
From the ESPN article linked.
"Dr. Christina Mack, epidemiologist and and chief scientific officer at IQVIA Injury Surveillance & Analytics, which produced the report, was careful to point out that the report does not say that load management doesn't work, either."
Sounds like a great study.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 14, 2024, 08:45:01 AM
From the ESPN article linked.
"Dr. Christina Mack, epidemiologist and and chief scientific officer at IQVIA Injury Surveillance & Analytics, which produced the report, was careful to point out that the report does not say that load management doesn't work, either."
Sounds like a great study.
Ha!
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 14, 2024, 08:45:01 AM
From the ESPN article linked.
"Dr. Christina Mack, epidemiologist and and chief scientific officer at IQVIA Injury Surveillance & Analytics, which produced the report, was careful to point out that the report does not say that load management doesn't work, either."
Sounds like a great study.
What the hell is going on with academic and scientific standards? It would be fun to see how much money they were paid to basically do nothing.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 14, 2024, 09:56:42 AM
What the hell is going on with academic and scientific standards? It would be fun to see how much money they were paid to basically do nothing.
The NBA commissioned a study but the data didn't draw definitive conclusions. Do you want them to lie or just give their opinion instead?
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 14, 2024, 10:01:54 AM
The NBA commissioned a study but the data didn't draw definitive conclusions. Do you want them to lie or just give their opinion instead?
So what is this?
"In addition, injury rates were not found to be higher during or immediately following periods of a dense schedule."
The report said that remained true even when factoring in things like player age, minutes played and injury history.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 14, 2024, 10:08:13 AM
So what is this?
"In addition, injury rates were not found to be higher during or immediately following periods of a dense schedule."
The report said that remained true even when factoring in things like player age, minutes played and injury history.
Right. Injury rates didn't increase after a dense schedule. But that doesn't mean they can draw a definitive conclusion, likely because it's not statistically significant. Have you ever taken a statistics course?
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 14, 2024, 10:27:37 AM
Right. Injury rates didn't increase after a dense schedule. But that doesn't mean they can draw a definitive conclusion, likely because it's not statistically significant. Have you ever taken a statistics course?
I have taken statistics, brutal :(
I can understand a result of 'not enough data to make a conclusion and we need to continue the study to accumulate sufficient data points'.
If the data is considered sufficient to make a conclusion, and the conclusion is that there is no material advantage with load management and in fact the available data says zero advantage, then there is your answer.
They appears to say "the study says no advantage but don't accept the results". Would that pass doctoral dissertation standards? (I actually don't know)
I know I said I would be silent about Pat Williams (Bulls player for people who don't know) but at the midway point of the season (I believe he will be out for game 41) here is where he stands compared to last year:
2023-24 (V.2022-23)
MIN 27.4 (-1.1)
PTS 9.8 (-0.4)
FG% 45.0 (-1.4)
3FG% 40.8 (-1.3)
REB 3.9 (-0.1)
BLKS 0.8 (-0.1)
AST 1.6 (0.4)
TO 1.3 (0.1)
Similar to S. Hauser - Sam may be better if he played 27MPG - who makes $2M/YR.
I know people on this board agree that still we don't see a $200M player in year 4. Due to his age I can see 3YR - $36M.
Pretty wild Bucks/Kings game. Bucks blow a late lead in regulation, then the Kings were up 4 with 18 seconds left in OT and went to the line for 2 free throws and found a way to lose.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 14, 2024, 08:56:45 PM
Pretty wild Bucks/Kings game. Bucks blow a late lead in regulation, then the Kings were up 4 with 18 seconds left in OT and went to the line for 2 free throws and found a way to lose.
Shame on me, I turned it off after the foul down 4
The Bucks have their probs but that was a ridiculous game winner by Lillard. How many Scoopers could make that shot in an open gym with 100 attempts?
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 15, 2024, 08:06:45 AM
The Bucks have their probs but that was a ridiculous game winner by Lillard. How many Scoopers could make that shot in an open gym with 100 attempts?
With the defenders and the fade away? Probably a couple.
From that exact spot as a jump shot? Quite a few.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 15, 2024, 08:08:14 AM
With the defenders and the fade away? Probably a couple.
From that exact spot as a jump shot? Quite a few.
LOL.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 15, 2024, 08:06:45 AM
The Bucks have their probs but that was a ridiculous game winner by Lillard. How many Scoopers could make that shot in an open gym with 100 attempts?
Mugster, for $45 mil/year, I'd like ta have da chance ta learn ta make dat shot, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 15, 2024, 09:17:31 AM
Mugster, for $45 mil/year, I'd like ta have da chance ta learn ta make dat shot, aina?
That's a shot going 3/4 length of the floor, with a hockey and then jump step to his left, from about 32 feet? Normal people who are good athletes can't get that ball to the rim in an open gym, let alone drain it. Fluffy would not hit the rim. :)
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 15, 2024, 10:32:05 AM
That's a shot going 3/4 length of the floor, with a hockey and then jump step to his left, from about 32 feet? Normal people who are good athletes can't get that ball to the rim in an open gym, let alone drain it. Fluffy would not hit the rim. :)
Oh I would not. I just didn't know what you meant by "hit that shot." If you are talking about all of what he did all the way from the backcourt...no one would hit that except for luck.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 15, 2024, 10:32:05 AM
That's a shot going 3/4 length of the floor, with a hockey and then jump step to his left, from about 32 feet? Normal people who are good athletes can't get that ball to the rim in an open gym, let alone drain it. Fluffy would not hit the rim. :)
It was an impressive shot, but not that insane. He got a really good look from 32 feet. Most scoopers that are regular open gym players would easily hit the rim from there, the better shooters amongst them would not have a problem making 1 out of 100.
I think I'd have trouble hitting the rim if I tried to replicate that exact move. But I definitely could hit the rim pretty often just firing from that spot on the floor, and I'd probably make a few (by accident if nothing else). And at least a couple of the middle-schoolers I coach also could do this.
I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case for many other Scoopers, as I'm WELL past my basketball-playing prime (if I ever had one).
But that exact shot, with the sidestep and all that ... I'd probably rupture my Achilles and blow out my ACL just attempting it.
Quote from: MU82 on January 15, 2024, 11:09:33 AM
I think I'd have trouble hitting the rim if I tried to replicate that exact move. But I definitely could hit the rim pretty often just firing from that spot on the floor, and I'd probably make a few (by accident if nothing else). And at least a couple of the middle-schoolers I coach also could do this.
I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case for many other Scoopers, as I'm WELL past my basketball-playing prime (if I ever had one).
But that exact shot, with the sidestep and all that ... I'd probably rupture my Achilles and blow out my ACL just attempting it.
I'd want to take the version of me that was within 10 years of age of Lilliard to replicate it.
Just for perspective, I've always played pickup in middle school gyms since graduating from MU (a few random runs in high school, but you get the point). Those gyms are 20 feet shorter than NBA courts (and high school courts are 10 feet shorter).
The shot Dame took was maybe a step inside the half court line of most middle schools or YMCAs. He did it while side stepping and falling left.
The shot was ridiculous.
Standing still in an empty gym? Yes I can make that. Trying to replicate what he did? It'd be a prayer heave.
I have trouble shooting the side-step left, especially from that distance. Going vertical up the floor, with the abrupt stop, and then the side-step makes that shot way harder.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 15, 2024, 08:11:11 AM
LOL.
I'd bet I could hit 20/100 from that spot in an open gym. As a side step I'd make some but less. As a step back? Nah.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 15, 2024, 12:42:45 PM
I'd bet I could hit 20/100 from that spot in an open gym. As a side step I'd make some but less. As a step back? Nah.
20/100 from 32 feet? Then you have some serious game. I was an 87% free throw shooter and 38% from distance in hs and could not hit that shot going 3/4 court.
That's where Ners left his feet for one of his dunks
Quote from: MU82 on January 15, 2024, 11:09:33 AM
I think I'd have trouble hitting the rim if I tried to replicate that exact move. But I definitely could hit the rim pretty often just firing from that spot on the floor, and I'd probably make a few (by accident if nothing else). And at least a couple of the middle-schoolers I coach also could do this.
I'd be surprised if that wasn't the case for many other Scoopers, as I'm WELL past my basketball-playing prime (if I ever had one).
But that exact shot, with the sidestep and all that ... I'd probably rupture my Achilles and blow out my ACL just attempting it.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day, aina?
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 15, 2024, 01:01:53 PM
20/100 from 32 feet? Then you have some serious game. I was an 87% free throw shooter and 38% from distance in hs and could not hit that shot going 3/4 court.
Wide open? Nobody near me? Open gym? Yeah. Muscle memory would kick in after awhile. In a game? Hell no.
I didn't play in HS. Probably hit 46% of my threes in leagues I played in. I'm not very good at basketball. I just can shoot.
ESPN with an interesting article (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39318248/nba-65-game-rule-affect-mvp-race-supermax-deals) about the ramifications of players that cannot play in 65 games/season.
The league's rule, put in place in early October as part of the push to curb load management (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38386013/how-nba-new-rules-resting-stars-work), states players will be all but certain to be ineligible for major individual awards -- Most Valuable Player, Defensive Player of the Year and All-NBA honors among them -- if they fail to play in at least 65 games.
OF THE PLAYERS selected to the three All-NBA teams last season, five of them -Giannis Antetokounmpo (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3032977/giannis-antetokounmpo) (63 games played), Stephen Curry (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3975/stephen-curry) (56), Jimmy Butler (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6430/jimmy-butler) (64), LeBron James (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/1966/lebron-james) (55) and Damian Lillard (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6606/damian-lillard) (58) -- would not have been eligible for the honors under the new rule.
The rule, therefore, would have also impacted the financial futures of several elite players.
Toronto Raptors (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/tor/toronto-raptors) forward Pascal Siakam (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3149673/pascal-siakam), for example, finished ninth in All-NBA voting among forwards, behind a list that included Antetokounmpo, Butler and James. If the 65-game rule were in place last season, Siakam would have been one of the six forwards to qualify. With it would have come eligibility for a supermax contract extension this past summer.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 15, 2024, 08:17:29 PM
Wide open? Nobody near me? Open gym? Yeah. Muscle memory would kick in after awhile. In a game? Hell no.
I didn't play in HS. Probably hit 46% of my threes in leagues I played in. I'm not very good at basketball. I just can shoot.
Why in the world didn't you play in high school if you were shooting 46% from 3 in leagues?
Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on January 16, 2024, 03:13:22 PM
ESPN with an interesting article (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39318248/nba-65-game-rule-affect-mvp-race-supermax-deals) about the ramifications of players that cannot play in 65 games/season.
The league's rule, put in place in early October as part of the push to curb load management (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/38386013/how-nba-new-rules-resting-stars-work), states players will be all but certain to be ineligible for major individual awards -- Most Valuable Player, Defensive Player of the Year and All-NBA honors among them -- if they fail to play in at least 65 games.
OF THE PLAYERS selected to the three All-NBA teams last season, five of them -Giannis Antetokounmpo (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3032977/giannis-antetokounmpo) (63 games played), Stephen Curry (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3975/stephen-curry) (56), Jimmy Butler (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6430/jimmy-butler) (64), LeBron James (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/1966/lebron-james) (55) and Damian Lillard (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6606/damian-lillard) (58) -- would not have been eligible for the honors under the new rule.
The rule, therefore, would have also impacted the financial futures of several elite players.
Toronto Raptors (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/tor/toronto-raptors) forward Pascal Siakam (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3149673/pascal-siakam), for example, finished ninth in All-NBA voting among forwards, behind a list that included Antetokounmpo, Butler and James. If the 65-game rule were in place last season, Siakam would have been one of the six forwards to qualify. With it would have come eligibility for a supermax contract extension this past summer.
Sure, but if the rule was in place the players in front of Siakam probably play in more games.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 16, 2024, 03:48:21 PM
Why in the world didn't you play in high school if you were shooting 46% from 3 in leagues?
Do high schools have Nerf basketball teams?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 16, 2024, 03:56:57 PM
Do high schools have Nerf basketball teams?
I've always assumed that's how Ners dunked.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 16, 2024, 03:48:21 PM
Why in the world didn't you play in high school if you were shooting 46% from 3 in leagues?
I'm just barely over 5'7 and at age 16 I was probably 130 lbs. I was good enough where I probably could have played my senior year, but at that point I would have been so far behind everyone conceptually that I didn't think it was worth it. And it was no guarantee that I would have made the team.
Also, baseball was essentially in training for 75% of the year and that was the sport where I could get playing time for a good team.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 15, 2024, 08:17:29 PM
Wide open? Nobody near me? Open gym? Yeah. Muscle memory would kick in after awhile. In a game? Hell no.
I didn't play in HS. Probably hit 46% of my threes in leagues I played in. I'm not very good at basketball. I just can shoot.
I was similar. I could never dribble for sh it so all ive ever been able to do is shoot. But ive always been very good at it. When I was super young in like 4th and 5th grade only game my team lost I played for the other team because at that young age no one else knew how to shoot a lick.
I was into other sports way more so never tried to get any better.
I can go a year without touching a ball and walk into a gym and win a shooting contest or contribute shooting in a standard pick up game. Only other thing I do even decently is rebound for my average size which I think is due to instincts from playing other sports.
I was a way better basketball player relative to my age at 25 and even 35 than I was at 15. At 15 I was too scrawny and awkward. Haven't played in over a decade now because the knees are shot.
WTH happened to the Bucks yesterday? Is Giannis hurt?
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2024, 08:07:59 AM
WTH happened to the Bucks yesterday? Is Giannis hurt?
He had diarrhea
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 17, 2024, 12:02:19 PM
I was a way better basketball player relative to my age at 25 and even 35 than I was at 15. At 15 I was too scrawny and awkward. Haven't played in over a decade now because the knees are shot.
Same. Only conditioning is worse, but I use the old man game to counter that.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 18, 2024, 08:07:59 AM
WTH happened to the Bucks yesterday? Is Giannis hurt?
Nah, he just took the night off 'cuz he picked da rong coach, aina?
I do love Muggs always dramatically asking wth is going on with the Bucks any time they have a bad game every two weeks in a 82 game season where teams basically dont try in many of them.
And could have his question answered with a simple Google search.
Thunder are impressive as sh it. Team is no fluke
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 18, 2024, 09:57:52 PM
Thunder are impressive as sh it. Team is no fluke
Impressive and fun as hell.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 18, 2024, 09:57:52 PM
Thunder are impressive as sh it. Team is no fluke
I'll not have you usurp our friendly fish friends in this manner, they are majestic creatures we should protect all costs even if it means introducing some folks to darkness.
Zach LaVine out for 1-2 weeks. Look for the Bulls to go on a run. The are truly a better team without him.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 18, 2024, 09:57:52 PM
Thunder are impressive as sh it. Team is no fluke
Maybe giving them 30 first round picks was a bad idea
Towns with 43 in the first half and apparently wolves are only up 4 to the Hornes
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 22, 2024, 08:11:33 PM
Towns with 43 in the first half and apparently wolves are only up 4 to the Hornes
Damn, and 15 for 18. Efficient.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 22, 2024, 08:26:31 PM
Damn, and 15 for 18. Efficient.
And i guess Embiid has 70. Crazy
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 22, 2024, 08:29:10 PM
And i guess Embiid has 70. Crazy
And Wemby had 33.
Centers have no place in todays game ::)
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 22, 2024, 08:29:10 PM
And i guess Embiid has 70. Crazy
23 FTs as the basketball greats envisioned
Threw on the final 8 min of Wolves/Hornets
Hilarious. KAT went into chuck and cry to officials mode. Wolves lose
Hard to say a guy scoring 62 loses a team a game, but might have a case
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 22, 2024, 08:11:33 PM
Towns with 43 in the first half and apparently wolves are only up 4 to the Hornes
62 points in a home loss to the 10-31 Hornets.
Has anybody ever tried so hard to try to convince someone they're "not a fan" of a team? Dude's posting a play by play with "allegedly" after everything. Then he "decides to turn on the end" and of course they fold.
Quote from: withoutbias on January 22, 2024, 09:45:00 PM
Has anybody ever tried so hard to try to convince someone they're "not a fan" of a team? Dude's posting a play by play with "allegedly" after everything. Then he "decides to turn on the end" and of course they fold.
Who posted a "play by play" in this thread?
Actually, better yet who used the word allegedly even once, much less everything
You are a fu cking retard, there is no other way to describe you at this point.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 22, 2024, 09:50:05 PM
Who posted a "play by play" in this thread?
Actually, better yet who used the word allegedly even once, much less everything
You are a fu cking retard, there is no other way to describe you at this point.
Lol. That's a good word to use.
I'm as much of that as you are "not a TWolves fan."
Despite you posting more about the TWolves than anyone else posts about anything else in the NBA thread.
Quote from: withoutbias on January 22, 2024, 09:57:27 PM
Lol. That's a good word to use.
I'm as much of that as you are "not a TWolves fan."
Despite you posting more about the TWolves than anyone else posts about anything else in the NBA thread.
Who posted a "play by play" in this thread?
Actually, better yet who used the word allegedly even once, much less everything
You are a fu cking retard, there is no other way to describe you at this point.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 22, 2024, 09:59:27 PM
Who posted a "play by play" in this thread?
Actually, better yet who used the word allegedly even once, much less everything
You are a fu cking retard, there is no other way to describe you at this point.
Doubling up using that word. Nice.
Looking forward to the next TWolves game that you can cry about. And then claim not to be a fan!
lol.
Quote from: withoutbias on January 22, 2024, 10:00:48 PM
Doubling up using that word. Nice.
Looking forward to the next TWolves game that you can cry about. And then claim not to be a fan!
lol.
Who posted a "play by play" in this thread?
Actually, better yet who used the word allegedly even once, much less everything
You are a fu cking retard, there is no other way to describe you at this point.
I think all pissing matches are reserved for the tennis thread.
https://twitter.com/DetroitVanDough/status/1749592061915898100/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1749592061915898100¤tTweetUser=DetroitVanDough
MarJon's reaction is hilarious.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 22, 2024, 10:14:46 PM
https://twitter.com/DetroitVanDough/status/1749592061915898100/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1749592061915898100¤tTweetUser=DetroitVanDough
MarJon's reaction is hilarious.
Says page doesn't exist for me
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 22, 2024, 10:16:04 PM
Says page doesn't exist for me
Maybe this one.
https://twitter.com/DetroitVanDough/status/1749592061915898100
Quote from: withoutbias on January 22, 2024, 09:45:00 PM
Has anybody ever tried so hard to try to convince someone they're "not a fan" of a team? Dude's posting a play by play with "allegedly" after everything. Then he "decides to turn on the end" and of course they fold.
You're the only one that cares about this.
Embiid dropped 70? I guess PG already posted about this. Damn.
From Yahoo Sports:
Embiid is the ninth member of the 70-point club, joining Chamberlain (6x), Bryant, Thompson, Baylor, David Robinson, Donovan Mitchell, Damian Lillard and Devin Booker.
Embiid's outburst in a 133-123 win over the Spurs was the 14th 70-point game in the history of the NBA, which dates back to 1946.
For context: There have been 19 perfect games in MLB since 1946 and 15 instances of an NFL player rushing for 250+ yards.
My additional 3 cents: Of course Wilt did it SIX times. Every time anybody hits some kind of impressive number, milestone or record, Wilt is always on the list to have done it previously. It's pretty incredible that Wilt actually is an underrated player historically.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on January 22, 2024, 09:24:00 PM
Threw on the final 8 min of Wolves/Hornets
Hilarious. KAT went into chuck and cry to officials mode. Wolves lose
Hard to say a guy scoring 62 loses a team a game, but might have a case
From Yahoo Sports:
Meanwhile, in Minnesota... Towns' historic night was much less celebratory as it came in a 128-125 loss to the lowly Hornets.
In the locker room, Anthony Edwards admitted the West-leading Wolves were focused on feeding the hot hand rather than winning the game, which they led by 15 entering the fourth quarter.
Head coach Chris Finch was irate, calling his team's performance "disgusting" and "immature." He also said Towns was "hunting a big number."It's certainly not easy losing to the Hornets, so that's an accomplishment in itself!
It was all about Kobe.
Bucks fire Griffin. Joe Prunty is back in charge baby!
And Doc is who they are targeting as a replacement.
Can't wait to see who we blow a 3-1 lead against.
Yeah I'm not a huge Doc fan, but they clearly had to change something.
Dang just saw that Rozier got sent to the Heat too
What took them so long? #34 picked da rong coach. Hello, Doc, hey?
Terry Stotts saw this dumpster fire long ago, hey?
I predict Darvin Ham will get hired this summer
I'd take a hard pass on Doc.
Doc will be fine. What ailed this team wasn't anything complicated.
I feel for Griffin, just as I did for David Blatt when he got launched with a similar record. Tough biz.
In the future, #34 needs to just shut up and dribble. Oh, and make his free throws too, aina?
Kudos to the Bucks for recognizing their mistake and moving quickly.
Unfortunately it leads to the same ignorant drivel from a certain poster.
Quote from: Jockey on January 23, 2024, 02:37:36 PM
Kudos to the Bucks for recognizing their mistake and moving quickly.
I also applaud the Bucks for having standards and striving for excellence.
(Meanwhile the Bulls let Donovan nap on the sidelines)
Quote from: Jockey on January 23, 2024, 02:37:36 PM
Kudos to the Bucks for recognizing their mistake and moving quickly.
Unfortunately it leads to the same ignorant drivel from a certain poster.
Well, in this case, he certainly hasn't been wrong.
We've been in agreement for some time on the topic.
I'd take Bud back over taking Doc.
We'll be far better off this year with Doc over AG. But I do not think Doc would be close to the best coach you could've got had you done this going into the offseason.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 23, 2024, 02:35:01 PM
In the future, #34 needs to just shut up and dribble. Oh, and make his free throws too, aina?
Will you be there when they unveil his statue?
QuoteLeague sources say Doc Rivers, who signed on as an ESPN analyst after getting fired by Philadelphia in May, began to serve as an informal consultant to Griffin at the behest of the Bucks.
Lol perfect. Let's hire the guy who was helping AG.
In normal circumstances, I'd say hiring Kenny Atkinson would be a good compromise in bringing back Popovich disciples without admitting that we biffed it letting Bud go. I don't see him leaving the Warriors at this moment in time, though.
I don't know what will happen (I'd rather have Bud), but there will be roster changes. Beasley has been a good piece, but he was added under the presumption of Jrue being around. the pairing of Jrue and Beas makes a ton of sense. Dame + Beas, not so much.
I would expect to see Pat in a salary dump. Bobby not completely safe, though I think it's much less likely given Robin is wholly unplayable.
Lastly - REALLY hope we grab PJ as an end of bench piece. Don't need him to play in a single game, but this team is going to be dependent on vocal leaders the rest of the year...the more the better.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 23, 2024, 03:18:55 PM
Lol perfect. Let's hire the guy who was helping AG.
That doesn't bother me that much. But Doc's lack of playoff success does.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 23, 2024, 04:29:24 PM
That doesn't bother me that much. But Doc's lack of playoff success does.
I thought the same a bit. But then, in San Diego he had a team that wasn't capable of winning a title. I think the same in Philly.
Good teams, playoff teams - but never had the players to win a title.
Quote from: Jockey on January 23, 2024, 05:34:05 PM
I thought the same a bit. But then, in San Diego he had a team that wasn't capable of winning a title. I think the same in Philly.
Good teams, playoff teams - but never had the players to win a title.
lol. San Diego?
Quote from: Jockey on January 23, 2024, 05:34:05 PM
I thought the same a bit. But then, in San Diego he had a team that wasn't capable of winning a title. I think the same in Philly.
Good teams, playoff teams - but never had the players to win a title.
Assuming you mean LA, but I disagree. He never had the best roster in the league so it's not like he underachieved that much. But it never seemed like he made teams better either.
He's not a guy that would give me confidence about getting past Boston or Philly.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 23, 2024, 06:25:12 PM
Assuming you mean LA, but I disagree. He never had the best roster in the league so it's not like he underachieved that much. But it never seemed like he made teams better either.
He's not a guy that would give me confidence about getting past Boston or Philly.
I can't really disagree with you. I think he's a solid coach, but don't know if he is any better than that.
The memes/tweets about Griffin being fired cause he wanted to bench/send down Thanasis are hilarious
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 23, 2024, 05:47:19 PM
lol. San Diego?
Absolutely.
Now if Kawhi, George, and Paul were all available it would have been different. But with the players that couldn't play? Zero chance.
Quote from: JWags85 on January 23, 2024, 07:39:05 PM
The memes/tweets about Griffin being fired cause he wanted to bench/send down Thanasis are hilarious
4ever started them cuz he's so anxious to get rid of Giannis.
Rivers to the Bucks confirmed lol
I'm a big fan of Glenn, so I'll be a big fan of the Bucks now. But I gotta admit that the fit might not be right as the Bucks' roster is currently constituted.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on January 24, 2024, 08:30:05 AM
Rivers to the Bucks confirmed lol
Is it official? I haven't seen that yet. I'm sure it's only a matter of time, but it's not done yet.
Quote from: cheebs09 on January 24, 2024, 09:14:08 AM
Is it official? I haven't seen that yet. I'm sure it's only a matter of time, but it's not done yet.
Same.
But I'm not sure why this would be a surprise to anyone. If the Bucks felt the need to give themselves a shot at winning the title this year to the point of firing AG, you aren't having Joe Prunty coach the rest of the season. And the available names to the Bucks right now are Doc, Stotts, Jeff Van Gundy, Nate McMillan, or trying to get Kenny Atkinson away from a team that just had another assistant coach suddenly pass away.
Doc's obviously going to be the guy coaching the Bucks within the next couple days, if not hours.
5:15 pm presser, hey?
Luka and Booker having a night
Luka with 73, 10 and 7 on 25/33 shooting. Wow
Quote from: lawdog77 on January 26, 2024, 08:19:51 PM
Luka and Booker having a night
Ive not been the biggest fan of him, but Booker has been out of his mind the last week and change. 62, 46, and 52 in the last 5 games
Do NBA stats really mean the same as they use to? Multiple players (4) have gone for 60+, Luka with almost a 70 point triple double. Triple Doubles are fairly routine now.
What is the cause, is it a lack of defense? (27% (4 out of 15) of all players to score 70 or more points in a game have occurred in the last 12 months)
Separate. When you see how the game is played now, it is hard not to look at it and say that Steph Curry has had one of the biggest impacts on the game ever. The game is different now, because of how Steph played the game and how the GSW dominated for a while.
Yeah these huge games certainly aren't as meaningful as they used to be. Players can just flat out score, and when they get hot its pretty hard to stop.
Steph Curry has undoubtedly had that impact, but IMO he has benefitted greatly from offensive philosophies introduced years ago that finally have caught on and been adapted to the NBA. Coaches like Mike D'Antoni brought some of this with them from Europe, had players like Steve Nash running this system, but could never get over the hump. They were of course criticized for not playing defense, etc. But they were just ahead of their time.
Reminds me of how coaches like Mouse Davis and June Jones first brought the Run and Shoot offense to the NFL, and met some success and A LOT of criticism, but now those concepts are all over the place every Sunday.
Combine my sensational middle-school "career" with my one year of HS JV hoops with my two years of rec-league ball as a teenager with my 4 years of intramural ball at Marquette ... and maybe, just maybe, I scored 73 points.
Here's the first few paragraphs from The Athletic's report of Saturday's late-night LeBron-Steph showdown. Pretty good stuff.
SAN FRANCISCO — The frustration seethed in Stephen Curry. Until it boiled to the surface. Until he let out a roar. Until he ripped his jersey from the color to the 30.
He'd scored 46 points on 35 shots, getting the benefit of just three free throws in his 43 minutes. He hit the game-tying layup at the end of regulation. Inside the final minute of the first overtime, he forced a turnover and then hit a massive corner 3, setting up the game-tying 3 from Klay Thompson that kept the Warriors alive. Then in the second overtime, Curry's final points of the night came on a 26-footer from the top with 4.7 seconds remaining, putting the Warriors up a point.
He left his follow-through in the air as he backpedaled. Too spent for a more elaborate celebration. The NBA's leader in clutch points delivered 19 more in this double-overtime affair, including 10 in the second overtime. On most nights, it would've been enough.
But on the other team was Curry's partner in magnificence. His most validating and valiant foe. LeBron James. They've exchanged heartbreaks and hugs over the years. James, whose Lakers eliminated Curry's Warriors from the playoffs last year, had more heartbreak to hand Curry.
The 39-year-old James beat a rookie nearly half his age off the dribble, blew past another young, spry athlete and powered up for a strong attack on the rim. He drew the foul and, punctuating his spectacular night, swished a pair of free throws to give the Lakers the win, 145-144. James' 36 points, 20 rebounds and 12 assists in nearly 48 minutes indicted his birth certificate for fraud.
They aren't winning like they're used to, both needing all they have just to stay in the race, both hoping to find crucial help to get them back to the realm of the contenders. But Saturday showed Curry and LeBron are still captivating. It will be a decade this coming February since LeBron's buzzer-beating 3 against the Warriors at Oracle in Oakland debuted "The Silencer" celebration and sparked this duo into must-watch theater. All these years later, when they share a court, it's still the NBA's best theater.
https://theathletic.com/5232646/2024/01/28/lebron-james-stephen-curry-warriors-lakers/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=8875624
Obviously, LeBron-Steph being the NBA's best theater is the opinion of the writer (Marcus Thompson II), but he sure made a decent case.
If nothing else, to think that LeBron, at 106 years old, could still put up a 36-20-12 game and play 48 hard minutes ... remarkable. And Curry still playing like he's in his prime ... incredible.
Nice debut for Simmons tonight.
Probably wont last, but impressive
Ryan Arcidiacono has played in a record 20 NBA games without scoring a point. The previous record was 10.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 30, 2024, 08:54:24 PM
Ryan Arcidiacono has played in a record 20 NBA games without scoring a point. The previous record was 10.
I kind of thought Nardi on Nova's bench tonight was Arci 😅
Quote from: wadesworld on January 30, 2024, 08:56:08 PM
I kind of thought Nardi on Nova's bench tonight was Arci 😅
Are you sure that wasn't Arci's actual brother who is on the team? ;D
Embiid hurt his knee last night. MRI results not released yet.
Quote from: JWags85 on January 31, 2024, 08:00:19 AM
Are you sure that wasn't Arci's actual brother who is on the team? ;D
Haha yeah. It was one of the assistant coaches. I looked at their staff and it was definitely Nardi.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 31, 2024, 09:50:02 AM
Haha yeah. It was one of the assistant coaches. I looked at their staff and it was definitely Nardi.
Fair play. Kind of hilarious that for almost 15 years, between Nardi, Arci, Gillespie, and now Arci 2.0 that Nova has had a white dude (that could ball, not a walkon) from the greater Philly area who could all swap each other to play the other in a movie.
Also, Arci yet another person to look at when positively assessing TK's NBA prospects. They are literally the same size.
Arci Last 2 years at Nova:
Jr: 10.1 PPG, 1.7 RPG, 3.6 APG on 39/37/81% splits
Sr: 12.5 PPG, 2.9 RPG, 4.2 APG on 45/39/84% splits
TK Last 2 years:
Jr: 13.1 PPG, 4.2 RPG, 7.6 APG on 47/40/81% splits
Sr: 15.0 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 7.4 APG on 49/39/88% splits
Arci was a REALLY good college player on REALLY good Nova teams. But you can argue that there is nothing that Senior Arci did better than Senior TK. TK is clearly a superior and more complete PG, player and prospect.
Arci wasn't drafted but became a normal roster NBA player pretty quickly. Gillespie similar situation, currently on a 2-way, but inferior size to both Arci and TK. 2-way converted to regular deal I think is the floor for TK. But I still lean to him getting picked in the 40s in June, assuming he leaves.
As a college player, TK is better than Arch, better than Gillespie, better than Zegarowski.
Arguably as good as or better than Brunson was, if we want to step away from just comparing TK to recent white Big East PG standouts. Brunson was a better scorer, but TK is better in assists (by a wide margin), rebounds, steals. Both were tough m-f-ers!
If the first three could get drafted and spend time in the league, obviously Kolek can, too. Brunson ... what a player he's become. It's hard to imagine Kolek approaching that as a pro, but what the heck!
I think its pretty hard to argue that Kolek is better than Brunson - he was national player of the year and a two time first team all American.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 31, 2024, 01:13:11 PM
I think its pretty hard to argue that Kolek is better than Brunson - he was national player of the year and a two time first team all American.
Also a 2 time national champion.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 31, 2024, 01:13:11 PM
I think its pretty hard to argue that Kolek is better than Brunson - he was national player of the year and a two time first team all American.
I honestly forgot he was national player of the year, and I thought he was only an AA as a senior, so there's my mea culpa.
Stylistically, his game has similarities to Brunson's game as a college player, and he is a better assist man ... but you're right, I went overboard saying he was "arguably as good as or better than Brunson was."
Portland up 10 on the Bucks.
Quote from: MU82 on January 31, 2024, 08:33:18 AM
Embiid hurt his knee last night. MRI results not released yet.
Vaxxed?
Bunch of rumors out there that Lebron might get traded.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 01, 2024, 07:46:55 PM
Bunch of rumors out there that Lebron might get traded.
Bobby Portis, Pat C are a good start
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 01, 2024, 07:46:55 PM
Bunch of rumors out there that Lebron might get traded.
One that seems to be heating up is the Celtics.
So they're goin' for it, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 01, 2024, 08:20:38 PM
So they're goin' for it, hey?
Heard it was Lebron to the Celtics. In return its Sam and the rights to Joey
Lakers got a steal, hey?
Guess nobody's trading for Lavine at the deadline.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 03, 2024, 04:14:06 PM
Guess nobody's trading for Lavine at the deadline.
Now the Bulls have a real excuse instead of "has negative trade value"
Quote from: wadesworld on February 03, 2024, 04:14:06 PM
Guess nobody's trading for Lavine at the deadline.
LaVine and Ball will return in 2027 to lead the Bulls to a Play In appearace. The future is bright. ::)
Steph Curry just became the third player in the last two weeks to score 60 points in a loss.
Huh? Maybe da Bucks will trade four 'im, hey?
Sounds like the Bucks want to move Portis and Connaughton.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 06, 2024, 08:08:52 AM
Sounds like the Bucks want to move Portis and Connaughton.
Unfortunately all other 29 teams have eyes
Quote from: GB Warrior on February 06, 2024, 09:48:43 AM
Unfortunately all other 29 teams have eyes
And neither are expiring.
Nice little trade for the Thunder, acquiring Gordon Hayward from the Hornets for nothing of substance. When healthy, a solid veteran who can score and play decent D. His contract us up after this season, so no long-term commitment, either.
Pat Bev is a Buck (for Cameron Payne and a 2nd).
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 06, 2024, 08:08:52 AM
Sounds like the Bucks want to move Portis and Connaughton.
The only trade chips they have.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 08, 2024, 01:03:50 PM
Pat Bev is a Buck (for Cameron Payne and a 2nd).
ESPN messed this up a little bit
QuoteThe Milwaukee Bucks (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/mil/milwaukee-bucks) are acquiring Patrick Beverley (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3964/patrick-beverley) from the Milwaukee Bucks for Cameron Payne (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3064230/cameron-payne) and a 2027 second-round pick, sources told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski on Thursday.
Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on February 08, 2024, 01:29:38 PM
ESPN messed this up a little bit
That's just Horst playing chess trying to get an extra second rounder.
Like the trade a lot. 2nd round picks don't mean much for a contender in win now mode, and Beverly brings a lot of experience and vet leadership. If you look at it like Bev for Payne, clear upgrade for the Bucks.
Quote from: JWags85 on February 08, 2024, 01:57:25 PM
Like the trade a lot. 2nd round picks don't mean much for a contender in win now mode, and Beverly brings a lot of experience and vet leadership. If you look at it like Bev for Payne, clear upgrade for the Bucks.
Clear upgrade absolutely, but not close to enough to make the Bucks real title contenders. I suppose Giannis and Dame's talents could put the team on their backs come Playoff time, but as it stands I don't think the Bucks would be clear favorites over any of the other top 7 teams in the East (assuming Embiid is back and healthy come Playoff time), and they aren't getting the 1 seed.
Which is why I'm somewhat glad they didn't make any other big moves. Wiggins would've given me a bit of hope because then you might have enough perimeter defense with him and Beverly, but even that I'm not sold on.
I think holding steady until the offseason when they have 2 tradable firsts (including Draft night) and being willing to move off of Khris or Brook is the way to improve the roster. Which is why it also stunk that AG couldn't have at least been competent enough to last the whole year. There would've been much better options come the offseason than Doc.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 08, 2024, 02:18:33 PM
Clear upgrade absolutely, but not close to enough to make the Bucks real title contenders. I suppose Giannis and Dame's talents could put the team on their backs come Playoff time, but as it stands I don't think the Bucks would be clear favorites over any of the other top 7 teams in the East (assuming Embiid is back and healthy come Playoff time), and they aren't getting the 1 seed.
Which is why I'm somewhat glad they didn't make any other big moves. Wiggins would've given me a bit of hope because then you might have enough perimeter defense with him and Beverly, but even that I'm not sold on.
I think holding steady until the offseason when they have 2 tradable firsts (including Draft night) and being willing to move off of Khris or Brook is the way to improve the roster. Which is why it also stunk that AG couldn't have at least been competent enough to last the whole year. There would've been much better options come the offseason than Doc.
I don't think they get out of the first round and Giannis ain't winning another ring in Milwaukee barring a massive overhaul of the roster. Is what it is.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 08, 2024, 02:24:26 PM
I don't think they get out of the first round and Giannis ain't winning another ring in Milwaukee barring a massive overhaul of the roster. Is what it is.
This year is unfortunate because Giannis is playing better than he's ever played, yet it's the worst team the Bucks have had since before Bud's first year.
But, Giannis is good enough that he can single handedly carry a team to a title. I agree that I don't think this roster is good enough to get out of the first round. If that's the case, I think Brook and Khris get moved. If the Bucks do it well, they can very easily be a title contender next year.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 08, 2024, 02:32:00 PM
This year is unfortunate because Giannis is playing better than he's ever played, yet it's the worst team the Bucks have had since before Bud's first year.
But, Giannis is good enough that he can single handedly carry a team to a title. I agree that I don't think this roster is good enough to get out of the first round. If that's the case, I think Brook and Khris get moved. If the Bucks do it well, they can very easily be a title contender next year.
We'll see.
Are the Bucke done?
Shocked that Doc hasn't turned them around.
Budenholzer must have been a genius.
Quote from: tower912 on February 08, 2024, 08:36:20 PM
Budenholzer must have been a genius.
I see they're down 22 at home.
Look at who's playing.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 08, 2024, 08:45:44 PM
Look at who's playing.
Whoever is playing apparently defense is optional?
It interesting the Bulls' GM says 52 games (+ 82 last year) is not enough to evaluate the quality of his team.
First old team in pro sports to hope to get better, by getting older?
I give him credit for publicly admitting the goal of the Bulls is to compete for the playoffs. Not the Finals, not a Championship. Just compete for the playoffs.
I'm curious who people think are the 5 best coaches in the NBA right now? Do we automatically slot Pop, Spo, and Kerr in the top 5?
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 08, 2024, 10:30:00 PM
I'm curious who people think are the 5 best coaches in the NBA right now? Do we automatically slot Pop, Spo, and Kerr in the top 5?
And Malone. Then take your pick of Nurse, Thibideau, Carlisle, or Lue. Daigneault looks to be pretty dang good.
I'd probably go Lue at 5.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 08, 2024, 10:34:49 PM
And Malone. Then take your pick of Nurse, Thibideau, Carlisle, or Lue. Daigneault looks to be pretty dang good.
I'd probably go Lue at 5.
I think it's really tough to evaluate.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 08, 2024, 08:30:59 PM
Are the Bucke done?
Peddle da 'hole mess for 15 used Bikes, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 09, 2024, 06:15:52 AM
Peddle da 'hole mess for 15 used Bikes, aina?
Now I'm confident they rattle off like 15 wins in a row.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 08, 2024, 08:45:44 PM
Look at who's playing.
You expect him to actually watch games? He's much more of a google the score, then come here to ask if the score that google showed him is correct, then ask how Zelmo Beaty would fare in today's game.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 09, 2024, 07:56:59 AM
You expect him to actually watch games? He's much more of a google the score, then come here to ask if the score that google showed him is correct, then ask how Zelmo Beaty would fare in today's game.
"Who are the top five coaches in today's game?"
<someone answers>
"It's real tough to evaluate."
::)
we were a better team with jrue holiday-looks like dame doesn't want to be here
The problem isn't Lillard. The problem is the supporting cast has dropped off considerably. They're old and overpaid.
They made the trade because what they had wasn't really working any longer, and they had to do something to get Giannis to sign his extension. But that doesn't negate the fact that Middleton is a step slower and Connaughton has a terrible contract. Portis' contract isn't great either.
This isn't unusual when teams trade picks to go "all in." Everyone knew this day would come eventually. The best they can do now is ride it out, and hope next year people will take PC and BP off your hands cause their contracts will be expiring.
And they got one more championship than I even thought I would see in my lifetime.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 09, 2024, 08:12:56 AM
The problem isn't Lillard. The problem is the supporting cast has dropped off considerably. They're old and overpaid.
They made the trade because what they had wasn't really working any longer, and they had to do something to get Giannis to sign his extension. But that doesn't negate the fact that Middleton is a step slower and Connaughton has a terrible contract. Portis' contract isn't great either.
This isn't unusual when teams trade picks to go "all in." Everyone knew this day would come eventually. The best they can do now is ride it out, and hope next year people will take PC and BP off your hands cause their contracts will be expiring.
And they got one more championship than I even thought I would see in my lifetime.
All of this is 100% true.
Need to turn over the roster except Dame and GA.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 08, 2024, 10:34:49 PM
And Malone. Then take your pick of Nurse, Thibideau, Carlisle, or Lue. Daigneault looks to be pretty dang good.
I'd probably go Lue at 5.
Lue? Really? I'm not all that impressed with what he's done in LA. Id take Carlisle, Malone, and Nurse over him easily. Chris Finch is a sleeper name as well.
Quote from: JWags85 on February 09, 2024, 09:58:16 AM
Lue? Really? I'm not all that impressed with what he's done in LA. Id take Carlisle, Malone, and Nurse over him easily. Chris Finch is a sleeper name as well.
I don't like the style they play, but I think the Clippers results have been pretty good considering all the roster and injuries to their top players.
First few paragraphs of Journal Sentinel op-ed piece:
As the Milwaukee Bucks return to Fiserv Forum Thursday night for their first home game under new head coach Doc Rivers, I'm wondering how you feel about how the team is spending their, err, your money?
If you're keeping track, the team has fired two coaches in eight months and recently agreed to pay Rivers, a former Marquette University men's basketball star and longtime NBA coach and announcer, $40 million to get the team over the hump. So far, that is proving a difficult climb, with the team 1-4 under his tenure.
The team, one of the league's smallest franchises, has three head coaches on its payroll, including Adrian Griffin, who was let go Jan. 24, and Mike Budenholzer, who was fired last May. By my estimates, that's about $60 million for head coaches – two no longer affiliated with the team.
Bucks' general manager Jon Horst said the firing of Griffin was a "difficult decision to make during the season." It also must be a difficult financial decision for the Bucks and taxpayers looking at how the team is spending money.
Interestingly, the Bucks – whom I love – have $60 million to spend on three head coaches, yet taxpayers are still on the hook for the $250 million over 30 years for the arena the team plays at, Fiserv Forum.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/opinion/columnists/james-causey/2024/02/07/fiserv-forum-milwaukee-bucks-doc-rivers-brewers-stadium/72443204007/?utm_source=jsonline-your-week-with-the-journal-sentinel-strada&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=baseline_greeting&utm_term=Content%20List%20-%20Stacking%20-%20optimized&utm_content=pmjs-milwaukee-nletter28
Yeah, I really don't know what one has to do with the other. I guess just to make headlines based on logical inconsistencies.
Hopeless Hornets dump GM Mitch Kupchak, an MJ holdover.
Quote from: MU82 on February 12, 2024, 09:44:27 AM
Hopeless Hornets dump GM Mitch Kupchak, an MJ holdover.
Mitch is much better with Jerry West at his side.
Jokic is a load. 285 lbs or 310 lbs?
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 12, 2024, 07:33:14 PM
Jokic is a load. 285 lbs or 310 lbs?
Are you just realizing this? He's been a load for years.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 12, 2024, 07:38:22 PM
Are you just realizing this? He's been a load for years.
I think he's heavier than he's listed.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 12, 2024, 07:43:18 PM
I think he's heavier than he's listed.
Aren't we all.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 12, 2024, 07:43:18 PM
I think he's heavier than he's listed.
No team that measures size of their players have ever lied about it, so there's no way it's possible he's heavier than listed
Crean sucks
Nice little run for the Bucks.
Apparently the Bucks didn't find something last night. Smh.
Used, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 14, 2024, 04:05:59 AM
Used, hey?
Getting nervous that Marquette might be good this year?
Jayson Tatum announces a $1MM donation to a partnership to help educate low income families on financial literacy and decision making, influenced by his own family's struggles growing up. A substantial piece of that donation also goes towards helping those families in the STL area make down payments on homes.
Online keyboard warriors immediately attack him/it as BS cause low income people don't need financial literacy, they know more than anyone. They just need more money. Then further complain his down payment idea is tone deaf and out of touch cause home ownership for the poor is delusional and they can't afford it anyways on their minimum wage salaries.
Twitter/other social media needs an auto time out "go touch grass" function for the terminally online
Quote from: JWags85 on February 14, 2024, 06:40:17 PM
Jayson Tatum announces a $1MM donation to a partnership to help educate low income families on financial literacy and decision making, influenced by his own family's struggles growing up. A substantial piece of that donation also goes towards helping those families in the STL area make down payments on homes.
Online keyboard warriors immediately attack him/it as BS cause low income people don't need financial literacy, they know more than anyone. They just need more money. Then further complain his down payment idea is tone deaf and out of touch cause home ownership for the poor is delusional and they can't afford it anyways on their minimum wage salaries.
Twitter/other social media needs an auto time out "go touch grass" function for the terminally online
Just another prima donna
Quote from: JWags85 on February 14, 2024, 06:40:17 PM
Jayson Tatum announces a $1MM donation to a partnership to help educate low income families on financial literacy and decision making, influenced by his own family's struggles growing up. A substantial piece of that donation also goes towards helping those families in the STL area make down payments on homes.
Online keyboard warriors immediately attack him/it as BS cause low income people don't need financial literacy, they know more than anyone. They just need more money. Then further complain his down payment idea is tone deaf and out of touch cause home ownership for the poor is delusional and they can't afford it anyways on their minimum wage salaries.
Twitter/other social media needs an auto time out "go touch grass" function for the terminally online
You are very concerned with what some fringe people say on Twitter
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 14, 2024, 08:33:26 PM
You are very concerned with what some fringe people say on Twitter
1) Not concerned, its not like I freaked out about it and told everyone I knew. Its just a perpetually downward spiraling trend of people on social media needing to tear down/find grievance with everything. If I post it here or send it to a friend of mine to roll my eyes about, thats about the extent of it.
2) It wasn't fringe. I saw it retweeted/referenced 4-5 times today, before I saw the story itself actually, and the retweets/references. Its no different than all the references here to guys being annoyed with Taylor Swift being shown.
And the truly depressing part for me isn't the solitary yahoos, its the decently prolific Twitter follows that used to be fun/must follows for commentary or humor related to sports/pop culture/etc... that fall into the aforementioned trend and become insufferable and thus unfollowed or blocked. Like someone I blocked earlier this week who morphed into a frenzied Outkick worshiping lunatic over the last 6 months. Or one of the people that brought this story to my feed, who used to be great for irreverent sports takes and commentary but now seemingly things athletes are all overpaid and compensated disgracefully.
Quote from: JWags85 on February 14, 2024, 06:40:17 PM
Jayson Tatum announces a $1MM donation to a partnership to help educate low income families on financial literacy and decision making, influenced by his own family's struggles growing up. A substantial piece of that donation also goes towards helping those families in the STL area make down payments on homes.
Online keyboard warriors immediately attack him/it as BS cause low income people don't need financial literacy, they know more than anyone. They just need more money. Then further complain his down payment idea is tone deaf and out of touch cause home ownership for the poor is delusional and they can't afford it anyways on their minimum wage salaries.
Twitter/other social media needs an auto time out "go touch grass" function for the terminally online
That's helps, but is pocket change, compared to this (going all Chicos, I am friends with their son)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2022/06/06/loyola-university-chicago-receives-record-100-million-gift/?sh=6feedca73219 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2022/06/06/loyola-university-chicago-receives-record-100-million-gift/?sh=6feedca73219)
The Bucks appear to be a disaster.
Maybe people will finally open up their eyes to how good Jrue is?
How is it that Vaughn (.510 win%) is fired and Donovan (.491 win%) get a fat extension?
Nets 20th in salary, Bulls 16th in salary. Nets 22nd oldest team, Bulls 8th oldest team.
This is a rhetorical question, everyone knows the Bulls dream season is the 'play-in'. Mediocrity is celebrated and rewarded. This is just another reminder of the bizarre state of sports franchise.
This Doc Rivers experiment seems to be going off the rails faster than I ever thought it would.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 20, 2024, 03:46:53 PM
This Doc Rivers experiment seems to be going off the rails faster than I ever thought it would.
He's a bad coach. Not surprised
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 20, 2024, 03:46:53 PM
This Doc Rivers experiment seems to be going off the rails faster than I ever thought it would.
10 games to judge?
It's gonna work out stupendously for Rivers, no matter what.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 08, 2023, 12:55:02 PM
I'd bet on over 15 points, over 7 rebounds, and over 3 assists per game for him this year. Over 1 block, but he's thin and 3 blocks is a lot.
Even I undersold him. Looking back at the first few pages of this thread is funny.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39588370/spurs-victor-wembanyama-posts-5x5-night-loss-lakers
QuoteWembanyama joined Jamaal Tinsley (2001) as the only NBA rookies to have a 5x5 game -- posting at least 5 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 5 steals and 5 blocks in a game -- and became just the second player to have 5 blocks and 5 steals in consecutive games, joining Michael Jordan.
Wembanyama paused to consider Jordan's feat and then asked, "I wonder if he did it in wins."
What a great comment.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on February 24, 2024, 10:00:14 AM
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39588370/spurs-victor-wembanyama-posts-5x5-night-loss-lakers
What a great comment.
Hilarious. A rookie on an 11-46 team about a legend who was 6-0 in NBA Finals.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 24, 2024, 11:01:06 AM
Hilarious. A rookie on an 11-46 team about a legend who was 6-0 in NBA Finals.
Wemby isn't really the issue there...
But I do recall him being a bust after the first exhibition game.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 20, 2024, 07:26:43 PM
10 games to judge?
Very solid win last night for the Bucks. Have to build on it and not crap the bed like they did after blowing Denver out. It's encouraging.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 24, 2024, 11:02:55 AM
Wemby isn't really the issue there...
But I do recall him being a bust after the first exhibition game.
Yeah I'm not sure what else Wemby is supposed to do. He's been good. He's learning. He hasn't said anything dumb.
I like the Clippers new logo. Very sharp. Had no idea why they were called the clippers until now
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 26, 2024, 06:43:16 PM
I like the Clippers new logo. Very sharp. Had no idea why they were called the clippers until now
Are they see-through?
I was wrong about Jaquez. I thought he'd be a serviceable NBA player. The guy is proving to be much more.
DePaul's own Max Strus went on a hell of a heater in the closing minutes of the Cavs game tonight.
https://x.com/hoopmixonly/status/1762671055930359939?s=46&t=h4SZwr6Xm-yQoPfDH3gYKw
Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 27, 2024, 09:19:41 PM
DePaul's own Max Strus went on a hell of a heater in the closing minutes of the Cavs game tonight.
https://x.com/hoopmixonly/status/1762671055930359939?s=46&t=h4SZwr6Xm-yQoPfDH3gYKw
Heck of a shot.
Yeah that Strus shot was bad ass just saw it.
https://heavy.com/sports/miami-heat/jimmy-butler-max-strus-instagram/
Quote from: Skatastrophy on February 28, 2024, 01:52:55 AM
https://heavy.com/sports/miami-heat/jimmy-butler-max-strus-instagram/
Ah man. How do you not just absolutely love this dude? Just a true dude's dude. A guy being a guy. Good old fashioned ribbing of his buddies. What a funny, down to earth guy.
Quote from: withoutbias on February 28, 2024, 09:30:15 AM
Ah man. How do you not just absolutely love this dude? Just a true dude's dude. A guy being a guy. Good old fashioned ribbing of his buddies. What a funny, down to earth guy.
Way to clearly show you have no friends from the African American community where roasting your friends is a way of life. This isn't even particular extreme.
But none of them are offended or upset cause they aren't pathologically broken brained like you. Maybe they called him out but the receipts vanished like all the court records of JFB in front of Milwaukee judges
Quote from: JWags85 on February 28, 2024, 12:35:01 PM
Way to clearly show you have no friends from the African American community where roasting your friends is a way of life. This isn't even particular extreme.
But none of them are offended or upset cause they aren't pathologically broken brained like you. Maybe they called him out but the receipts vanished like all the court records of JFB in front of Milwaukee judges
Literally what I said. I wasn't aware that it was a cultural thing at all, either. My white friends do it with each other all the time. Didn't realize we were being posers by doing that.
It was try hard attempts and they were lame as hell.
Maybe he's jealous Strus's alma mater is having a day for him. Wonder why Marquette isn't having any Jimmy Butler days.
Things that make you go, "Hmm..."
Quote from: withoutbias on February 28, 2024, 01:37:01 PM
Literally what I said. I wasn't aware that it was a cultural thing at all, either. My white friends do it with each other all the time. Didn't realize we were being posers by doing that.
It was try hard attempts and they were lame as hell.
Maybe he's jealous Strus's alma mater is having a day for him. Wonder why Marquette isn't having any Jimmy Butler days.
Things that make you go, "Hmm..."
You are implying something that isn't the actual reason. But keep going.
Why are we bringing up an article from November 2021?
Wemby vs Chet tonight. This from Yahoo Sports:
Two of the greatest rookie seasons ever collide tonight in San Antonio, where Victor Wembanyama's Spurs host Chet Holmgren's Thunder in their third matchup of the season, Jeff writes.
Tale of the tape: Holmgren leads the season series, 2-0, over Wembanyama, but it's the 7-foot-4 French prodigy who's taken a commanding lead in the Rookie of the Year race (-650 at BetMGM) over the 7-foot-1 Minneapolis native (+500). Don't let that fool you, though: Chet's numbers are nearly as staggering as Wemby's.
Making history: It took just 48 games for Wembanyama to become the first player in NBA history with 150 blocks, 150 assists and 75 three-pointers in a season — and Holmgren has since joined him as the second, doing so in 57 games. And that's not where their similarities end.
Take those blocks, for example. They're not just good for rookies: Wemby leads the league with 3.3 per game and Holmgren is tied for second, with 2.7.
Their overall defense is also elite: Among the 200 players averaging at least 20 minutes per game, they're tied for the fourth-best defensive rating.
Where Wembanyama has the edge: I mean, have you seen him play? He looks like a different species. How does the same player who makes this effortless block also do this from behind the arc? And then there are the eye-popping stat lines.
His first career triple-double was among the fastest ever (21 minutes), and his second was of the rare variety that featured 10 blocks.
Last weekend he one-upped himself with 27 points, 10 rebounds, 8 assists, 5 steals and 5 blocks, becoming the 15th player in NBA history with a "5x5" game. He also became the second ever with consecutive games of 5 steals and 5 blocks. The other? Michael Jordan.
Where Holmgren has the edge: While Wemby's Spurs (11-48) are in dead last, Chet's Thunder (41-17) are 0.5 games out of first. It's one thing to put up stats on a cellar-dweller, but Holmgren has fit seamlessly into — and indeed helped fuel — a legitimate championship contender.
His 6.8 win shares are tied for 12th in the NBA, and if he maintains this pace he'll end the season with the third-best rookie mark this century, behind only Chris Paul and Blake Griffin.
He's also been the much better shooter, with significantly higher percentages from both the field (54.2%) and behind the arc (40.1%) than Wembanyama (46.6%; 31.7%).
The bottom line: It will still take a herculean effort by Holmgren to wrest the ROY award away from Wembanyama, but don't let that distract you from the fact that both of these rookie supernovas are having seasons for the ages.
How about Rivers and those Bucks, hey? ;) Small sample size as stink of that Memphis loss before the All Star break lingers, but trending in a very positive direction.
Bulls are a bunch of babies. Bucks get no bonus points for beating up on bad teams, but after a season of making these games harder than they should be, they're trending the right way.
This road trip out West will tell us if they might be back.
Quote from: GB Warrior on March 02, 2024, 11:00:55 AM
Bulls are a bunch of babies. Bucks get no bonus points for beating up on bad teams, but after a season of making these games harder than they should be, they're trending the right way.
This road trip out West will tell us if they might be back.
Beating the Bulls is not a good measuring stick. Even though they are a better team without LaVine, still not very good.
Boston up 82-38 at the half over Golden St.
Great 4Q defense, clutch plays by Portis, and Bucks win again. Lots of contributors down Giannis and Middleton.
Keep it rolling Doc and co. Love the Beverly addition too. Definitely brings an edge they were missing.
Not sure what their ceiling is but they look significantly better since the all star break.
Portis with 28 and 16 is pretty impressive.
Sengun is no joke.
Celtic blow 22 point 4th qtr lead and lose to Cavs highlighted by over turned foul call on tatum
https://www.espn.com/
shoulda drawn up the play for sammy
Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 06, 2024, 05:53:41 AM
Celtic blow 22 point 4th qtr lead and lose to Cavs highlighted by over turned foul call on tatum
shoulda drawn up the play for sammy
Wasn't garbage time, so he wasn't in the game.
And great job by that officiating crew to ultimately get the call right.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 06, 2024, 05:53:41 AM
Celtic blow 22 point 4th qtr lead and lose to Cavs highlighted by over turned foul call on tatum
https://www.espn.com/
shoulda drawn up the play for sammy
Heard a crazy stat...something like only two players this season have shot 100% in a fourth quarter comeback of 20+ points. Strus and Wade in the same week for the Cavs.
Quote from: MU82 on March 06, 2024, 11:25:48 AM
Wasn't garbage time, so he wasn't in the game.
And great job by that officiating crew to ultimately get the call right.
100% the right call. Well done by the officials.
Why is this a "great job by the refs?" What would be a great job is if they don't fall for what Tatum has done for years now, fall for no reason at all. Him, Ebmiid, Harden. They're just foul baiters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjAZmqxT5yE
Quote from: wadesworld on March 06, 2024, 02:19:16 PM
Why is this a "great job by the refs?" What would be a great job is if they don't fall for what Tatum has done for years now, fall for no reason at all. Him, Ebmiid, Harden. They're just foul baiters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjAZmqxT5yE
What I said was: "great job by that officiating crew to ultimately get the call right" ... and I meant it.
They missed the call in real time because it isn't easy to see in real time. The nearest ref has a lot to look at during the course of a play. Sounds like an excuse, and I guess it is, but it truly is difficult.
So the Cavs coach used the rules to ask for a replay, and then the officials took their time, assessed what happened, weren't too proud to admit they missed it, and ultimately got the call right.
I think that was a great job. If you don't, that's your prerogative.
And yes, players like Tatum get away with sticking their leg out while shooting too damn often. Just as moving screens are allowed to be set too damn often. Just like palming and traveling and 3-second violations are allowed to happen too damn often.
https://x.com/shamscharania/status/1765740182198722833?s=46&t=b4z8_tLYSEk6PYdgEXn91Q
Not sure if this is big enough news to share to not look like a diehard wolves guy
By the end of this year Ben Simmons will have played 332 out of a possible 646 regular season games in his career.
Collect that paycheck my guy.
Quote from: wadesworld on March 07, 2024, 11:29:27 AM
By the end of this year Ben Simmons will have played 332 out of a possible 646 regular season games in his career.
Collect that paycheck my guy.
Lonzo Ball is following his lead. (or I should say "followed", as Ball's playing days are over)
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on March 07, 2024, 08:32:02 AM
https://x.com/shamscharania/status/1765740182198722833?s=46&t=b4z8_tLYSEk6PYdgEXn91Q
Not sure if this is big enough news to share to not look like a diehard wolves guy
Sucks for KAT and the T-Wolves. They're a fun team to watch.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on March 07, 2024, 11:38:28 AM
Lonzo Ball is following his lead. (or I should say "followed", as Ball's playing days are over)
His playing days are "over" says who? He's only 26 and still intends to play and has made big strides coming back, he's just not rushing it. Shaun Livingston obliterated his knee and came back to play a decade plus and Lonzo is much better than Livingston was at the time of his injury. Derrick Rose missed huge portions of time.
I'm not saying he's a lock to return, much less be an All Star, but I think its premature to call him done. I see people comparing him to Brandon Roy, but Roy had chronic problems going back to college.
Quote from: JWags85 on March 07, 2024, 01:20:57 PM
His playing days are "over" says who? He's only 26 and still intends to play and has made big strides coming back, he's just not rushing it. Shaun Livingston obliterated his knee and came back to play a decade plus and Lonzo is much better than Livingston was at the time of his injury. Derrick Rose missed huge portions of time.
I'm not saying he's a lock to return, much less be an All Star, but I think its premature to call him done. I see people comparing him to Brandon Roy, but Roy had chronic problems going back to college.
The same people who say he has 'made big strides' are the same who say his 'playing days are over', the rumor mill. Since he doesn't rehab with the Bulls , nobody truly knows. And every report I have see refers to "
if"
not "
when" Ball plays again.
We do know that it will be minimum of 2.5 years he is out and this isn't his first injury issue.
But, you're right. I should have posted
'in my opinion his playing days are over'.
And then there's Ben Simmons ...
It appears Denver and Boston are clearly the 2 best teams. Who would you take in a 7 game series?
I'll take the team with the real MVP over the team with the wannabe MVP.
Quote from: Jockey on March 07, 2024, 11:31:19 PM
I'll take the team with the real MVP over the team with the wannabe MVP.
No one seems to have an answer for Jokic.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 08, 2024, 07:27:21 AM
No one seems to have an answer for Jokic.
There are a lot of legit contenders, especially in the West. Who knows. No one dreamed the Heat would have the run they did last year.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 07, 2024, 10:14:19 PM
It appears Denver and Boston are clearly the 2 best teams. Who would you take in a 7 game series?
Nuggets with their experience plus being defending champs def get the edge in West.
But clearly? No. Especially over a team like the Thunder that's an offensive wagon.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on March 08, 2024, 08:00:08 AM
Nuggets with their experience plus being defending champs def get the edge in West.
But clearly? No. Especially over a team like the Thunder that's an offensive wagon.
I like the Thunder but I just think they need another big. SGA reminds me a little of Wade.
On this date in 1962, Wilt Chamberlain completed the highest-scoring regular season in NBA history, in which he averaged 50.4 ppg.
Perhaps even more incredibly, he averaged 48.5 minutes. Even though NBA games were (and still are) only 48 minutes long, he averaged more than that because his team, the Philadelphia Warriors, played in 7 OT games. He was never subbed out all season, and he missed only 8 minutes because he was ejected in the fourth quarter of one game.
(The above info from Yahoo Sports)
Somehow, over the years, Wilt has become one of the most underrated players in NBA history.
Quote from: MU82 on March 14, 2024, 08:00:50 AM
On this date in 1962, Wilt Chamberlain completed the highest-scoring regular season in NBA history, in which he averaged 50.4 ppg.
Perhaps even more incredibly, he averaged 48.5 minutes. Even though NBA games were (and still are) only 48 minutes long, he averaged more than that because his team, the Philadelphia Warriors, played in 7 OT games. He was never subbed out all season, and he missed only 8 minutes because he was ejected in the fourth quarter of one game.
(The above info from Yahoo Sports)
Somehow, over the years, Wilt has become one of the most underrated players in NBA history.
I'm with JJ Redick - the 1960s NBA was made up of plumbers and firemen.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 14, 2024, 08:04:08 AM
I'm with JJ Redick - the 1960s NBA was made up of plumbers and firemen.
Did you know Wilt had higher scoring and rebounding averages against Russell than he did against the rest of the NBA?
Quote from: lawdog77 on March 14, 2024, 08:07:06 AM
Did you know Wilt had higher scoring and rebounding averages against Russell than he did against the rest of the NBA?
Yeah. He was a great player. I'm just not going to be wowed with stats from 1962.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 14, 2024, 08:13:46 AM
Yeah. He was a great player. I'm just not going to be wowed with stats from 1962.
To each his own, I guess. My point was that he didn't just pad his stats against the UA Local 157.
It seems that every time ESPN has a blurb about So-and-So being only the third player ever to record xxxx points, xxxx rebounds and xxxx assists - or whatever the stat-salad combo is - one of the others is Wilt.
Also, every time a record for blocked shots is mentioned, it's a fraud. Blocks weren't an official stat when Wilt and Russell played, and they surely hold blocked-shot records that will never be approached, let alone broken.
What surprises me more is that an NBA season in 1962 ended in March.
Basketball in the 70's was far superior than basketball today.
-Signed People The World Has Passed By
Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on March 14, 2024, 11:02:26 AM
What surprises me more is that an NBA season in 1962 ended in March.
The regular season yes. The current season starts about the same time (mid October) but ends a couple weeks later (early to mid April). There are two additional games now, but the bigger deal is the season is more spread out.
For instance, look at the Celtics '61-62 schedule.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1962/gamelog/
In the eight days between November 11 and November 18, they played six games in five cities. Including a back-to-back-to-back in Cincinnati, New York and Boston.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 14, 2024, 12:03:51 PM
The regular season yes. The current season starts about the same time (mid October) but ends a couple weeks later (early to mid April). There are two additional games now, but the bigger deal is the season is more spread out.
For instance, look at the Celtics '61-62 schedule.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1962/gamelog/
In the eight days between November 11 and November 18, they played six games in five cities. Including a back-to-back-to-back in Cincinnati, New York and Boston.
Boeing planes worked back then
In a career of incredible dunks for Anthony Edwards, this might have been his best ever ...
(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fd15k2d11r6t6rl.cloudfront.net%2Fpublic%2Fusers%2FIntegrators%2F669d5713-9b6a-46bb-bd7e-c542cff6dd6a%2F1d75fd3a730a463c8648bd84293b832a%2Fant%2520dunk.gif&t=1710845189&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1c0c-17000101a400&sig=MbPL5y7zK3ZU9JYJXwTaTQ--~D)
Quote from: MU82 on March 19, 2024, 06:07:58 AM
In a career of incredible dunks for Anthony Edwards, this might have been his best ever ...
(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fd15k2d11r6t6rl.cloudfront.net%2Fpublic%2Fusers%2FIntegrators%2F669d5713-9b6a-46bb-bd7e-c542cff6dd6a%2F1d75fd3a730a463c8648bd84293b832a%2Fant%2520dunk.gif&t=1710845189&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1c0c-17000101a400&sig=MbPL5y7zK3ZU9JYJXwTaTQ--~D)
they call that one the tea bag poster
Quote from: MU82 on March 19, 2024, 06:07:58 AM
In a career of incredible dunks for Anthony Edwards, this might have been his best ever ...
(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fd15k2d11r6t6rl.cloudfront.net%2Fpublic%2Fusers%2FIntegrators%2F669d5713-9b6a-46bb-bd7e-c542cff6dd6a%2F1d75fd3a730a463c8648bd84293b832a%2Fant%2520dunk.gif&t=1710845189&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1c0c-17000101a400&sig=MbPL5y7zK3ZU9JYJXwTaTQ--~D)
Thrunk.
Another look.
(https://ecp.yusercontent.com/mail?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.emailimagecdnuyi.com%2Fjlupybngdi%2Fen_us%2Fimages%2F65f9754c99f94-1710847308.6307.jpg&t=1710851293&ymreqid=3c8d0d78-3338-e941-1cae-8a003201d300&sig=1t_aZhjNW5eFtocZFbpbJg--~D)
Only to have this one a few hours later...from Sun Prairie's own Jalen Johnson.
https://x.com/ATLHawks/status/1769917607266677194?s=20
Edwards' dunk was much more ferocious and he soared much higher IMHO. But Johnson's was good, too.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on March 19, 2024, 08:06:43 AM
Only to have this one a few hours later...from Sun Prairie's own Jalen Johnson.
https://x.com/ATLHawks/status/1769917607266677194?s=20
I remember when Scoop wrote this dude off because he "quit" on Duke. Lol. How's that one going?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okFx2IJImuo
By the way, this is still my favorite poster ever. Giannis acting like there isn't some 6'6" human moving under him. Khris's reaction says it all. Not going nuts. Confused and amazed.
Quote from: wadesworld on March 19, 2024, 10:16:43 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okFx2IJImuo
By the way, this is still my favorite poster ever. Giannis acting like there isn't some 6'6" human moving under him. Khris's reaction says it all. Not going nuts. Confused and amazed.
What I love about that dunk, and really any time someone on the visiting team does something similar in New York, is the crowd's reaction. They know, and appreciate, ball.
Here is one from earlier in Giannis' career.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tm5T1EPBwmU
Quote from: MU82 on March 14, 2024, 08:00:50 AM
On this date in 1962, Wilt Chamberlain completed the highest-scoring regular season in NBA history, in which he averaged 50.4 ppg.
Perhaps even more incredibly, he averaged 48.5 minutes. Even though NBA games were (and still are) only 48 minutes long, he averaged more than that because his team, the Philadelphia Warriors, played in 7 OT games. He was never subbed out all season, and he missed only 8 minutes because he was ejected in the fourth quarter of one game.
(The above info from Yahoo Sports)
Somehow, over the years, Wilt has become one of the most underrated players in NBA history.
I saw Wilt play live many times in the Pros. He was an incredible basketball player and outstanding overall athlete. Wilt had the stamina to play 48 minutes, strength , speed and a crazy vert measured at 50 inches. He also had a great touch around the basket and his fadeaway was a thing of beauty. Defense and Rebounding were out of this world. St the end of his career when he had some talent around him he focused on passing and had outstanding vision.
I have him as The GOAT .
Unfortunately , Wilt happened to play at a time when The Celtics had the greatest dynasty ever and to the winner goes the spoils as they say.
His vertical was never measured at that height.
Myths & Legends (as Micheal Stipe would say).
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 24, 2024, 08:40:37 PM
I saw Wilt play live many times in the Pros. He was an incredible basketball player and outstanding overall athlete. Wilt had the stamina to play 48 minutes, strength , speed and a crazy vert measured at 50 inches. He also had a great touch around the basket and his fadeaway was a thing of beauty. Defense and Rebounding were out of this world. St the end of his career when he had some talent around him he focused on passing and had outstanding vision.
I have him as The GOAT .
Unfortunately , Wilt happened to play at a time when The Celtics had the greatest dynasty ever and to the winner goes the spoils as they say.
I used to meet Wilt for lunch at the Brown Derby back in the early 80's.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 25, 2024, 09:23:11 AM
I used to meet Wilt for lunch at the Brown Derby back in the early 80's.
Wingman?
Wilt was Rico's wingman.
@wojespn
Toronto Raptors center Jontay Porter is out of the lineup and a subject of an NBA investigation into irregularities on prop betting involving him, sources tell @DavidPurdum
, @ESPNWindhorst
and me. Story soon.
I wonder if he speaks Japanese.
Not a good loss for the Bucks.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 26, 2024, 09:41:11 PM
Not a good loss for the Bucks.
It doesn't matter. They'll be the 2 seed.
Guards are too small to be effective vs Celtics. O, as for last nite, Dame shot 9 for 29 and All-Universe #34 found the bottom of the net on only 1 of 6 free throws. BTW, da Fawns lost by 3 in double OT to a LeBron less Laker teem, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 27, 2024, 10:04:09 AM
Guards are too small to be effective vs Celtics. O, as for last nite, Dame shot 9 for 29 and All-Universe #34 found the bottom of the net on only 1 of 6 free throws. BTW, da Fawns lost by 3 in double OT to a LeBron less Laker teem, hey?
I'd have traded Giannis years ago.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 27, 2024, 10:04:09 AM
Guards are too small to be effective vs Celtics. O, as for last nite, Dame shot 9 for 29 and All-Universe #34 found the bottom of the net on only 1 of 6 free throws. BTW, da Fawns lost by 3 in double OT to a LeBron less Laker teem, hey?
And barely lost at the team you say they can't be effective against without Giannis a couple games ago.
It's the end of the regular season and they're more or less locked into the 2 seed. Giannis's and Dame's talents are good enough to carry them. If Khris is healthy, they'll have a chance.
It turns out Draymond has not changed.
Quote from: cheebs09 on March 27, 2024, 06:25:19 PM
It turns out Draymond has not changed.
Typical Spartan
Quote from: cheebs09 on March 27, 2024, 06:25:19 PM
It turns out Draymond has not changed.
Shocker. I thought he was cured after anger management classes.
Curry's reaction was telling.
https://x.com/ThompsonScribe/status/1773143315027767745?s=20
The Bucks appear to be a dumpster 🔥.
Playoff picture in west is pretty intriguing.
Looking likely that Lakers/Warriors end up 9 and 10 which means one of them would be guaranteed to not make playoffs
Everyone is basically hoping to avoid whatever seed the Nuggets end up at.
Thunder/Wolves can't like the idea of ending up the 3 seed and drawing Durant
But suns could also still end up in play in too. Lakers, warriors and suns all in play in would be nuts
Am I alone thinking this may be the end for LeBron? He has made comments lately about retirement and it sure appears like Bronny isn't going to be in the NBA next year or for maybe a few more years, if ever. Plus, he has played a lot this year. Makes me wonder if this is the last great push to win his 5th ring then hang it up.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 08, 2024, 09:31:56 AM
Am I alone thinking this may be the end for LeBron? He has made comments lately about retirement and it sure appears like Bronny isn't going to be in the NBA next year or for maybe a few more years, if ever. Plus, he has played a lot this year. Makes me wonder if this is the last great push to win his 5th ring then hang it up.
I don't see that guy quietly retiring on impulse.
It'll be drawn out.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 08, 2024, 09:31:56 AM
Am I alone thinking this may be the end for LeBron? He has made comments lately about retirement and it sure appears like Bronny isn't going to be in the NBA next year or for maybe a few more years, if ever. Plus, he has played a lot this year. Makes me wonder if this is the last great push to win his 5th ring then hang it up.
LBJ talks about retirement anytime he realizes he has no shot at a title. Anything to be the center of attention.
But, according to him, he's uncomfortable receiving praise.
;D Very true. Humility is not one of his strengths.
Maybe I'm reading to much into it, but it seems like the Bronny situation has taken the wind out of his sails.
I would not begrudge him if he does the retirement tour thing. I think his fans would like it.
Retiring while he is still one of the greatest players in the world would be a rare thing for an athlete to do.
I don't see it, but I guess it could happen.
We can await word on the 1-hour TV special he arranges with ESPN.
Decision: The Sequel
The Next Decision
The Final (?) Decision
Maybe he will take a page from so many boomer bands and have more than one farewell tour.
Quote from: tower912 on April 08, 2024, 11:45:08 AM
Maybe he will take a page from so many boomer bands and have more than one farewell tour.
I hope he plays as long as he can. He makes a lot of the right people mad.
Quote from: MU82 on April 08, 2024, 11:25:13 AM
Retiring while he is still one of the greatest players in the world would be a rare thing for an athlete to do.
I don't see it, but I guess it could happen.
We can await word on the 1-hour TV special he arranges with ESPN.
Decision: The Sequel
The Next Decision
The Final (?) Decision
I'd agree that he is still a top 10 player and uncommon for player like that to retire. But there was Jordan, Megatron, Barry Sanders, Luck, Mayweather, Bobby Jones......
He has the records, he has the money, I don't see the Lakers getting better and the Bronny dream seems to have evaporated.
I'm just observing that, on top of the very obvious fact he is very close to the end, some of the other factors seem to be lining up for retirement.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 08, 2024, 11:56:41 AM
I'd agree that he is still a top 10 player and uncommon for player like that to retire. But there was Jordan, Megatron, Barry Sanders, Luck, Mayweather, Bobby Jones......
He has the records, he has the money, I don't see the Lakers getting better and the Bronny dream seems to have evaporated.
I'm just observing that, on top of the very obvious fact he is very close to the end, some of the other factors seem to be lining up for retirement.
Jordan wasn't a top-10 player when he retired for good, but your point is well-taken. And it doesn't change what I said: It's rare for a great athlete to retire when he is still among the best in his or her profession.
Agree with the rest of your points. I just don't see it happening, but I could be wrong.
Also this:
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 08, 2024, 11:56:20 AM
I hope he plays as long as he can. He makes a lot of the right people mad.
@wojespn
ESPN Sources: Charlotte has been granted permission to interview Sacramento's G League coach Lindsey Harding for head coaching opening. Harding - a former No. 1 overall WNBA draft pick — was G League's coach of the year for Stockton and advanced to Western Conference Finals.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 08, 2024, 09:31:56 AM
Am I alone thinking this may be the end for LeBron? He has made comments lately about retirement and it sure appears like Bronny isn't going to be in the NBA next year or for maybe a few more years, if ever. Plus, he has played a lot this year. Makes me wonder if this is the last great push to win his 5th ring then hang it up.
My prediction, which as always is worth absolutely nothing: Bronny follows Enfield, and a bag of NIL money to SMU/Dallas. LeBron makes a push to be traded to Dallas to join Kyrie and Doncic for another push at titles.
Dallas drafts (or signs) Bronny so they can play together.
Yikes. Looks like Giannis may be out for awhile.
https://x.com/sichrismannix/status/1777866734373868008?s=46&t=ppua9BCUAa7dWM9-SthPmg
Calf strain. Definitely won't be rushed back after what happened to KD.
Thats not good. Celts road just got easier
Suns came to play tonight
down 37-10 after 1 qtr
It was 35-4
They were stuck on 4 pts until the final minute when getting into the bonus got them 6 free throws.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 09, 2024, 09:30:19 PM
Thats not good. Celts road just got easier
Is it serious?
Found this interesting for all the talk of the Bucks struggles here...
https://x.com/nba_university/status/1778108200715219302?s=46
But also shows how terrible their bench has been
i see the bucks and knicks in dead heat for 2nd place in eastern conference with cleveland a game back
who has the tie breaker? bucks could slip all the way to 4th?
last games:
bulls at knicks -14.5
bucks(+4.5) at orlando
charlotte at cleveland (-13.5)
Bucks have the tiebreaker on the Knicks. Cavs have the tiebreaker on the Bucks. Not sure what happens if they all tie
It's unbelievable it's come down to this for the Bucks. So many losses to bad teams. The 2nd seed should have been wrapped up with a bow on it easily by now.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 13, 2024, 10:42:31 PM
It's unbelievable it's come down to this for the Bucks. So many losses to bad teams. The 2nd seed should have been wrapped up with a bow on it easily by now.
Meh. Could work out better anyway if they're the 4. If they lose tomorrow and the Cavs and Knicks win, the 2 seed ends up with either the Heat or Sixers. Even 3 ends up with the Pacers. If the Bucks are the 4 they get the Magic.
Yeah you play the C's a round earlier than you could. But you'll probably have to beat them to make the Finals anyway. And I think the Bucks match up okay with the C's. Yes the C's are better. But the Bucks have blown them out twice and nearly made huge comebacks twice. The C's get into iso ball and Tatum cries about the physicality come Playoff time.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 13, 2024, 10:47:34 PM
Meh. Could work out better anyway if they're the 4. If they lose tomorrow and the Cavs and Knicks win, the 2 seed ends up with either the Heat or Sixers. Even 3 ends up with the Pacers. If the Bucks are the 4 they get the Magic.
Yeah you play the C's a round earlier than you could. But you'll probably have to beat them to make the Finals anyway. And I think the Bucks match up okay with the C's. Yes the C's are better. But the Bucks have blown them out twice and nearly made huge comebacks twice. The C's get into iso ball and Tatum cries about the physicality come Playoff time.
I don't know if I agree, but am open to your points.
Aren't the Magic a potentially dangerous team though too? A lot of young talent. Maybe not ready yet to win series?
Only 17 assists (to go with 28 points, 11 rebounds and 5 steals) for LeBron. Someday, he's gonna be pretty good.
Quote from: MU82 on April 14, 2024, 10:49:27 PM
Only 17 assists (to go with 28 points, 11 rebounds and 5 steals) for LeBron. Someday, he's gonna be pretty good.
Yeah, but how many of them were easy assists and easy rebounds?
Great call by the Clippers announcers as Houston's wacky Boban Marjanović intentionally missed a free throw to help fans get free chicken sandwiches.
https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1779701478372053375?
As I look at the playoffs do you think the Lakers throw the 7/8 play-in game? They don't want Denver/Jokic.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 15, 2024, 11:00:08 AM
As I look at the playoffs do you think the Lakers throw the 7/8 play-in game? They don't want Denver/Jokic.
No.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 15, 2024, 11:00:08 AM
As I look at the playoffs do you think the Lakers throw the 7/8 play-in game? They don't want Denver/Jokic.
Greeny asked this today on his show. Possibly the dumbest question I have heard from him, and that's saying something. You don't purposefully throw yourself into an elimination game.You're probably going to have to face Denver eventually. You should face them when your old players (AD and Lebron) are fresh.
Quote from: lawdog77 on April 15, 2024, 12:49:31 PM
Greeny asked this today on his show. Possibly the dumbest question I have heard from him, and that's saying something. You don't purposefully throw yourself into an elimination game.You're probably going to have to face Denver eventually. You should face them when your old players (AD and Lebron) are fresh.
I guess it's not worth the risk.
Is Giannis out? The Bucks have big probs.
Zion in a nut shell
Absolute menace taking a game over strictly in the paint at 6'7
But the injury was ineveitable. Came with 3 min left and tie game. Brutal
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 16, 2024, 08:55:11 PM
Zion in a nut shell
Absolute menace taking a game over strictly in the paint at 6'7
But the injury was ineveitable. Came with 3 min left and tie game. Brutal
What happened? It didn't look like much.
Sacramento is throttling the Dubs. Not exactly a good performance by Klay.
Klay's done. He's been done for awhile. The magic isn't going to be recreated with this group. Rebuild around Steph.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 17, 2024, 07:23:17 AM
Klay's done. He's been done for awhile. The magic isn't going to be recreated with this group. Rebuild around Steph.
I agree with this, although building around a 36-year-old with a lot of mileage on his engine has its own downside.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 16, 2024, 08:55:11 PM
Zion in a nut shell
Absolute menace taking a game over strictly in the paint at 6'7
But the injury was ineveitable. Came with 3 min left and tie game. Brutal
I usually don't feel bad for Duke guys (he spend like 6 months there), but last night and his career have been brutal. They were going to win that game if he doesn't get injured. He was the best player on the court. Sad story.
Quote from: MU82 on April 17, 2024, 07:42:49 AM
I agree with this, although building around a 36-year-old with a lot of mileage on his engine has its own downside.
Klay isn't retiring. Will they re-sign him? Wiggins is also a major problem. The guy has disappeared after being an all-star 2 yrs ago. As far as Curry is concerned he needs to be off the ball way more. They need to find another creator.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 17, 2024, 08:25:21 AM
I usually don't feel bad for Duke guys (he spend like 6 months there), but last night and his career have been brutal. They were going to win that game if he doesn't get injured. He was the best player on the court. Sad story.
Meh. He's got more money than people can imagine. And he can't keep his weight in check despite having every possible resource at his disposal.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 17, 2024, 09:40:36 AM
Meh. He's got more money than people can imagine. And he can't keep his weight in check despite having every possible resource at his disposal.
Your right. I guess I like watching him as he is a unique talent. As I said before, he was the best player in the game. The Lakers had no answer for him.
Jontay Porter gets lifetime suspension
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 17, 2024, 11:19:32 AM
Jontay Porter gets lifetime suspension
What are the odds he gets reinstated at some point?
Quote from: Pakuni on April 17, 2024, 11:48:30 AM
What are the odds he gets reinstated at some point?
Is he good enough for that?
Quote from: Pakuni on April 17, 2024, 11:48:30 AM
What are the odds he gets reinstated at some point?
That was my first thought too, but he's a great guy to make an example of. He bet on and against his own team (though he didn't play in those games) and faked an injury to tank his props. And to lawdog's point, he's not good enough that there will be any real pressure to reinstate him.
Quote from: MUBurrow on April 17, 2024, 12:17:49 PM
That was my first thought too, but he's a great guy to make an example of. He bet on and against his own team (though he didn't play in those games) and faked an injury to tank his props. And to lawdog's point, he's not good enough that there will be any real pressure to reinstate him.
I think it was a gambling joke that both of you two missed. ;D
1000 - 1 for the record, Pak.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on April 17, 2024, 01:31:25 PM
I think it was a gambling joke that both of you two missed. ;D
1000 - 1 for the record, Pak.
I bet you are correct.
It will be weird to not see Jontay Porter in the NBA ever again,
said no one ever.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 17, 2024, 11:19:32 AM
Jontay Porter gets lifetime suspension
You never wanna be the 1st one caught.
Quote from: Jockey on April 17, 2024, 04:32:43 PM
You never wanna be the 1st one caught.
Maybe this looks harsh in retrospect, but Silver, the NBA and mostly the book makers were livid. I think there is a good chance this will be the punishment even 100 years from now.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 17, 2024, 05:19:52 PM
Maybe this looks harsh in retrospect, but Silver, the NBA and mostly the book makers were livid. I think there is a good chance this will be the punishment even 100 years from now.
Yep they have precedent now. This might be a shot across the bow of other players, they just took down the little guy first.
It doesn't look harsh to me at all. He had to go. And if it's a superstar next, he'll have to go, too.
Or maybe they will send them to play minor league baseball for a couple of seasons.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on April 17, 2024, 01:31:25 PM
I think it was a gambling joke that both of you two missed. ;D
1000 - 1 for the record, Pak.
Doh! It went under/over my head.
Yikes. No Giannis for the Bucks.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 17, 2024, 04:24:38 PM
It will be weird to not see Jontay Porter in the NBA ever again,
said no one ever.
they might have saved the dudes life unless he still owes someone
"just when I think i'm out, they pull me back in"
Another year the Bulls miss the playoffs.
Time to drop $200M in Pat Williams lap. ;D
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 19, 2024, 08:33:00 PM
Another year the Bulls miss the playoffs.
Time to drop $200M in Pat Williams lap. ;D
Try to get a 2nd rounder in a trade. Maybe get 2 2nd rounders for Lavine.
Neither guy has much value. Williams has never been any good and Lavine's contract means they can't get much back for him either.
Quote from: Jockey on April 19, 2024, 11:04:02 PM
Try to get a 2nd rounder in a trade. Maybe get 2 2nd rounders for Lavine.
Neither guy has much value. Williams has never been any good and Lavine's contract means they can't get much back for him either.
You are right. LaVine's contract is a huge issue but also the Bulls won more after he went down. There was hardly a market for him before the injury and he publicly announced he wants out, so a single 2nd round pick maybe the best they can do.
Williams looks like he should get a Coby White type deal, primarily because of his age, at about 3/$35M. His absence did not hurt the Bulls at all.
The Bulls GM is the main issue. I can't think of one good draft pick or trade or FA signing he has made.
I'm gonna go wild and pick Nuggets over Celtics for the title.
Came close to picking the Thunder, but it's not quite their time yet.
Quote from: MU82 on April 20, 2024, 09:36:38 AM
I'm gonna go wild and pick Nuggets over Celtics for the title.
Came close to picking the Thunder, but it's not quite their time yet.
You would think the C's have a much easier path to get to the Finals. I'd like to see OKC or Minny make some noise.
I would also root for the Knicks but Stephen A. Smith makes that impossible.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 20, 2024, 04:03:23 PM
I would also root for the Knicks but Stephen A. Smith makes that impossible.
The solution is easy:
1. Root for the Knicks.
2. Don't pay attention to Smith.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 21, 2024, 07:16:53 AM
The solution is easy:
1. Root for the Knicks.
2. Don't pay attention to Smith.
That's only a 2-point plan
Apparently, when watching the Knicks play, Muggsy is somehow forced to also listen to Screamin' A Smith in the background.
He is the only person in the world who faces such a mandate. I feel for him.
Quote from: MU82 on April 21, 2024, 12:28:24 PM
Apparently, when watching the Knicks play, Muggsy is somehow forced to also listen to Screamin' A Smith in the background.
He is the only person in the world who faces such a mandate. I feel for him.
This is incorrect. I had the terrible misfortune of having to listen to him for about 30 secs during the halftime of that game. His act is a total embarrassment and he's also been proven to be a fraud. The overall ESPN studio coverage of NBA basketball, led by Smith and his buffoonery, is as bad as humanly possible.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 21, 2024, 12:57:00 PM
This is incorrect. I had the terrible misfortune of having to listen to him for about 30 secs during the halftime of that game. His act is a total embarrassment and he's also been proven to be a fraud. The overall ESPN studio coverage of NBA basketball, led by Smith and his buffoonery, is as bad as humanly possible.
So 30 seconds of him makes you unable to root for the Knicks? Weird.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 21, 2024, 12:57:00 PM
This is incorrect. I had the terrible misfortune of having to listen to him for about 30 secs during the halftime of that game. His act is a total embarrassment and he's also been proven to be a fraud. The overall ESPN studio coverage of NBA basketball, led by Smith and his buffoonery, is as bad as humanly possible.
They just invented this device called a "remote control," on which there is a "mute" button. I recommend you use another recent invention - Google - to do some research on that.
Quote from: MU82 on April 21, 2024, 01:35:26 PM
They just invented this device called a "remote control," on which there is a "mute" button. I recommend you use another recent invention - Google - to do some research on that.
Or he can do the Muggsy thing and be outraged over something completely inconsequential.
Genuinely curious how many O/Us have been affected by the recent trend of completely punting the last minute of games that aren't closer than 2 possessions. Obviously the leading team dribbling out the last 20 seconds of a game is nothing new, but Ive seen countless shot clock violations taken with plenty of time left on the clock, escalating to dueling shot clock violations in the last minute of a game.
I get not risking injury or prolonging nonsense with fouling in games that are more or less unwinnable, but standing around dribbling for the last 60-70 seconds of the game is so lame and not seen in literally any other professional or college league elsewhere.
If Porzingas plays well it's going to be very difficult to beat Boston. Unless they choke.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 21, 2024, 01:42:53 PM
Or he can do the Muggsy thing and be outraged over something completely inconsequential.
Who says I was outraged?
Heat still dirty as hell. Heat Culture.
Jason Kidd is still a horrible coach.
Uhhhhh......Lillard is launching bombs. And I mean from deep, deep, range.
44-16 runs (currently) are helpful.
See this is why they had to make that trade. You gotta score in the post season and that's is where they fell apart the last couple seasons.
(https://y.yarn.co/79752741-139a-4756-8e92-f879845725f0_text.gif)
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 21, 2024, 07:14:28 PM
See this is why they had to make that trade. You gotta score in the post season and that's is where they fell apart the last couple seasons.
Yes. He went medieval for a half but there's still a lot of work to do.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 21, 2024, 07:40:04 PM
Yes. He went medieval for a half but there's still a lot of work to do.
Thanks.
Milwaukee is doing their best to make this interesting.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 21, 2024, 07:56:36 PM
You jinxed them Fluffy.
Well this is when they need Giannis.
The team still isn't good. But it's nice to get a Dame heater for a half. And to play a roster with very little Playoff experience.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 21, 2024, 08:00:27 PM
The team still isn't good. But it's nice to get a Dame heater for a half. And to play a roster with very little Playoff experience.
Why in the world would Beverly, Beasley, and Connaughton be on the floor together?
Who's your MVP this season? SGA?
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 21, 2024, 08:18:20 PM
Who's your MVP this season? SGA?
Jokic and it's not even close.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 21, 2024, 08:27:12 PM
Jokic and it's not even close.
I just don't think he'll get it 3yrs in a row. But I do agree he should.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 21, 2024, 08:29:48 PM
I just don't think he'll get it 3yrs in a row. But I do agree he should.
Then it's a good thing he didn't get it last year.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 21, 2024, 08:58:33 PM
Then it's a good thing he didn't get it last year.
Whoops. I forgot about Embiid. I have a feeling Doncic will get it this year.
OKC/Nola has been. crazy down the stretch.
Hauser is the lead in The Athletic article about the game:
BOSTON — When Sam Hauser shot 1-for-18 a few weeks ago, Boston Celtics coach Joe Mazzulla was excited for him. This was a moment to savor, a failure that was an opportunity for growth.
"I texted him after the 1-for-18 game and said, 'The ultimate compliment is you got to miss 12 3s in an NBA game, that's a huge positive. You have to look at it that way,'" Mazzulla said.
It can be easy to crater when you're a shooter off the bench for a 64-win team. And as the Miami Heat were scoring right through Hauser in Sunday's Game 1 of their first-round playoff series, he was bricking wide-open 3s. The Celtics were finding ways to work past Miami's zone defense late in the first quarter, but Hauser was leaving them empty-handed. The Heat, without the injured Jimmy Butler and Terry Rozier, had nearly erased the early lead Boston carved out with its 14-0 run to open the playoffs.
Then Hauser came back on the floor for the start of the second quarter and buried four consecutive 3-pointers. The Heat never got back to within single digits in the Celtics' 114-94 win to open the postseason. By the end of the run, Hauser went from scoreless to the game's high-scorer.
"(Hauser was) extremely important. Sam is a big reason we extended the game in that second quarter," Jayson Tatum said. "They cut it to three or four. Sam hit three or four 3s. You're going to need things like that to be successful in the playoffs."
Hellofaplaya, aina?
Quote from: MU82 on April 22, 2024, 07:01:11 AM
Hauser is the lead in The Athletic article about the game:
BOSTON — When Sam Hauser shot 1-for-18 a few weeks ago, Boston Celtics coach Joe Mazzulla was excited for him. This was a moment to savor, a failure that was an opportunity for growth.
"I texted him after the 1-for-18 game and said, 'The ultimate compliment is you got to miss 12 3s in an NBA game, that's a huge positive. You have to look at it that way,'" Mazzulla said.
It can be easy to crater when you're a shooter off the bench for a 64-win team. And as the Miami Heat were scoring right through Hauser in Sunday's Game 1 of their first-round playoff series, he was bricking wide-open 3s. The Celtics were finding ways to work past Miami's zone defense late in the first quarter, but Hauser was leaving them empty-handed. The Heat, without the injured Jimmy Butler and Terry Rozier, had nearly erased the early lead Boston carved out with its 14-0 run to open the playoffs.
Then Hauser came back on the floor for the start of the second quarter and buried four consecutive 3-pointers. The Heat never got back to within single digits in the Celtics' 114-94 win to open the postseason. By the end of the run, Hauser went from scoreless to the game's high-scorer.
"(Hauser was) extremely important. Sam is a big reason we extended the game in that second quarter," Jayson Tatum said. "They cut it to three or four. Sam hit three or four 3s. You're going to need things like that to be successful in the playoffs."
1-18?!?!?
Hope someone's parents got in the coaches ear
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 22, 2024, 07:50:37 AM
Hellofaplaya, aina?
He is often very good at one thing that is extremely valued in his sport, and I'm not at all surprised he has an NBA career. As I said, I think he'll be underpaid next season.
Quote from: MU82 on April 22, 2024, 08:21:16 AM
He is often very good at one thing that is extremely valued in his sport, and I'm not at all surprised he has an NBA career. As I said, I think he'll be underpaid next season.
That's fine, he will get a better contract the year after.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on April 22, 2024, 09:31:42 AM
That's fine, he will get a better contract the year after.
Probably true. Either way, he'll have plenty to help support Joey.
No player should ever take 4 consecutive three pointers. Get the ball to Ed Morrow and Theo John and let them go to work with their back to the basket. Play to win, not to put up stats. Play the right way. Distribute shots evenly.
Yeah, can you imagine what the Hausers would have said if Markus jacked up a 15th, 16th, 17th and 18th shot after he already had been 1-for-14?
And what kind of coach actually encourages a shooter to keep shooting?
Can someone make senses of the Bulls offering 36 y.o. DeRozan 2yrs/$80mil? I know they came withing a hair of winning the NBA Championship, but come on.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 22, 2024, 03:36:02 PM
Can someone make senses of the Bulls offering 36 y.o. DeRozan 2yrs/$80mil? I know they came withing a hair of winning the NBA Championship, but come on.
He's their leading scorer, good clubhouse guy, $40M in AAV isn't all that much, and they can trade the expiring contract the year after next.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 22, 2024, 03:41:04 PM
He's their leading scorer, good clubhouse guy, $40M in AAV isn't all that much, and they can trade the expiring contract the year after next.
I agree with most of that but $40M would make him the 15th highest paid player in the NBA this year. Not many teams can take on that contract even if it is expiring. Also, don't the trades salaries have to match up in the NBA, so they'd have to take back a $40M guy?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 22, 2024, 04:37:29 PM
I agree with most of that but $40M would make him the 15th highest paid player in the NBA this year. Not many teams can take on that contract even if it is expiring. Also, don't the trades salaries have to match up in the NBA, so they'd have to take back a $40M guy?
Depends on where the other teams are against the tax aprons.
Also the Bulls have his Bird rights and can go over the cap to resign him, which they can't do with an external free agent. Same reason Khris got the contract from the Bucks...it's not about where else I can spend $40M, it's that I can't spend that money on literally anything else.
The NBA cap rules kick ass
Quote from: GB Warrior on April 22, 2024, 06:29:56 PM
Depends on where the other teams are against the tax aprons.
Also the Bulls have his Bird rights and can go over the cap to resign him, which they can't do with an external free agent. Same reason Khris got the contract from the Bucks...it's not about where else I can spend $40M, it's that I can't spend that money on literally anything else.
The NBA cap rules kick ass
I guess that makes sense. Seems like they could spend the money elsewhere*. I suppose if DeRozan is all about the money and not winning, he should take it. I think I'd resign myself to never winning for $80mil.
* like the 5 year $200mil for Pat Williams :D
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 22, 2024, 06:43:49 PM
I guess that makes sense. Seems like they could spend the money elsewhere*. I suppose if DeRozan is all about the money and not winning, he should take it. I think I'd resign myself to never winning for $80mil.
* like the 5 year $200mil for Pat Williams :D
We've discussed this WT. The Bulls are an unmitigated disaster. They are nowhere near competing for anything and have made poor decision, after poor decision, after poor decision, after poor decision, etc, etc, etc. They've been a minimum of 3 players away since the Rose injury. DeRozan could maybe be a #2 on the right roster. The contract itself doesn't bother me. But we're dealing with an organization that has no foresight whatsoever, or frankly any idea wth they are doing.
Epic meltdown from Philly. Wow.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 22, 2024, 07:15:09 PM
We've discussed this WT. The Bulls are an unmitigated disaster. They are nowhere near competing for anything and have made poor decision, after poor decision, after poor decision, after poor decision, etc, etc, etc. They've been a minimum of 3 players away since the Rose injury. DeRozan could maybe be a #2 on the right roster. The contract itself doesn't bother me. But we're dealing with an organization that has no foresight whatsoever, or frankly any idea wth they are doing.
Truth. >:(
Knicks Philly ending was wild.
Lowry the vet missing free throws. And then chaos happens. The bounce on that Brunson shot was very fortunate.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 22, 2024, 09:55:11 PM
Knicks Philly ending was wild.
Lowry the vet missing free throws. And then chaos happens. The bounce on that Brunson shot was very fortunate.
8-0 run in 35 secs.
As is the norm for most NBA coaches, Thibs doesn't foul up 3.
Anthony Davis has officially gone medieval.
Damn. Nuggets would not be denied.
Did you see that??? Wow. Just wow.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 22, 2024, 11:34:09 PM
Damn. Nuggets would not be denied.
Bottom line is you can't lose that game if you're the Lakers. Ham didn't settle them down in tbe 3Q.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 22, 2024, 11:36:01 PM
Bottom line is you can't lose that game if you're the Lakers. Ham didn't settle them down in tbe 3Q.
If the Lakers play the Nuggets 10 times, the Lakers win .............. zero times.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 23, 2024, 12:07:41 AM
If the Lakers play the Nuggets 10 times, the Lakers win .............. zero times.
That was a bad loss. And then Ham ridiculously blamed the refs.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 23, 2024, 12:07:41 AM
If the Lakers play the Nuggets 10 times, the Lakers win .............. zero times.
I saw a few articles/writer tweets about how if the Lakers beat the Nuggets, it will be a huge cap on Lebron's legacy. As soon as I saw that, I had a feeling this was going to be the outcome. Lebron is a freak and his longevity is nuts, but he's not allowed a proper full team to be built around him since Cleveland for a variety of reasons and this is just a further example.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 23, 2024, 12:09:06 AM
That was a bad loss. And then Ham ridiculously blamed the refs.
Nick Nurse blamed the refs after the Sixers' loss, too.
Phil Jackson blamed the refs at least once every playoff series in which his team lost a game.
It's what coaches do.
Meanwhile ...I'm not a big fan of arbitrary stat salads, but I have to admit this one impressed me:
Nikola Jokić (27-20-10) had his fourth 25-20-10 playoff game. Every other player in NBA history has four combined (two from Wilt Chamberlain, one each from Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Dave Cowens).Any time you can accomplish something on the basketball court twice as many times as Wilt did, it's damn impressive.
Of course, Wilt probably also had 10 blocks in each of those games, but blocks weren't an official stat back then.
Quote from: MU82 on April 23, 2024, 07:27:34 AM
Nick Nurse blamed the refs after the Sixers' loss, too.
Nurse's complaint was ridiculous. The ref clearly saw him signal timeout, but they are supposed to look for the ball after, and it was already loose. And now they are going to file a grievance? LOL...ok.
Here's an idea. Don't rush the inbounds under your own basket. Advance it to half-court with the timeout instead. (I know they wanted to save it cause they had one left, but still...)
Anyway I did not see the Lakers / Nuggets ending until this morning. But man the end of that game, and the Knicks game, is why the NBA is so great. Really both home teams win in dramatic fashion with the crowd right there. Incredible atmosphere.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 23, 2024, 07:50:42 AM
Nurse's complaint was ridiculous. The ref clearly saw him signal timeout, but they are supposed to look for the ball after, and it was already loose. And now they are going to file a grievance? LOL...ok.
Here's an idea. Don't rush the inbounds under your own basket. Advance it to half-court with the timeout instead. (I know they wanted to save it cause they had one left, but still...)
Anyway I did not see the Lakers / Nuggets ending until this morning. But man the end of that game, and the Knicks game, is why the NBA is so great. Really both home teams win in dramatic fashion with the crowd right there. Incredible atmosphere.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Maxey was fouled too, but my immediate reaction was the same as yours ... why didn't you advance the ball for the easy inbounds pass? Self-inflicted wound.
Maxey might've been fouled...after a nice clean 2 handed shove to Hart's chest went uncalled. The biggest blunder by the refs was overturning the 5th foul called on Lowry when he clearly wacked Divencenzo on the neck/shoulder while knocking the ball out with the other hand.
How about Embiid gets back in the play and boxes out a crashing Hartenstein instead of pouting around about the turnover and lack of timeout?
Embiid has a total of 0.0 rebounds in the two 4th quarters of this series. But he also blamed the officiating.
In the Lakers loss Davis absolutely dominated the game through 3Q. In the 4Q he had a whopping total of zero points and one rebound. He took one shot.
The coaching yesterday of Nurse and Ham was super questionable to put it mildly. Why on earth didn't Philly call a time-out before they in-bounded the ball after Brunson bounced in that triple? They could have advanced the ball. And no, Nurse did not clearly call a time-out once they had trouble getting the ball in.
Any medical professionals on here that can explain what's going on with Embiid's left eye? He like can't blink, apparently has been wearing sunglasses around the locker room, and won't look into cameras during press conferences/interviews. Looks really weird.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 23, 2024, 10:43:07 AM
Embiid has a total of 0.0 rebounds in the two 4th quarters of this series. But he also blamed the officiating.
In the Lakers loss Davis absolutely dominated the game through 3Q. In the 4Q he had a whopping total of zero points and one rebound. He took one shot.
The coaching yesterday of Nurse and Ham was super questionable to put it mildly. Why on earth didn't Philly call a time-out before they in-bounded the ball after Brunson bounced in that triple? They could have advanced the ball. And no Nurse did not clearly call a time-out once they had trouble getting the ball in.
They had no trouble getting the ball in. In fact it was inbounded quickly. It was a loose ball that Maxey possessed briefly.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 23, 2024, 10:46:34 AM
They had no trouble getting the ball in. In fact it was inbounded quickly. It was a loose ball that Maxey possessed briefly.
They got the ball in, yes - but directly into a double team.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 23, 2024, 10:49:08 AM
They got the ball in, yes - but directly into a double team.
Right. Which is why taking a TO may have been the better option. A turnover out of bounds is way further away from the basket.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 23, 2024, 10:46:05 AM
Any medical professionals on here that can explain what's going on with Embiid's left eye? He like can't blink, apparently has been wearing sunglasses around the locker room, and won't look into cameras during press conferences/interviews. Looks really weird.
Vaxxed?
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 23, 2024, 10:43:07 AM
Embiid has a total of 0.0 rebounds in the two 4th quarters of this series. But he also blamed the officiating.
In the Lakers loss Davis absolutely dominated the game through 3Q. In the 4Q he had a whopping total of zero points and one rebound. He took one shot.
The coaching yesterday of Nurse and Ham was super questionable to put it mildly. Why on earth didn't Philly call a time-out before they in-bounded the ball after Brunson bounced in that triple? They could have advanced the ball. And no, Nurse did not clearly call a time-out once they had trouble getting the ball in.
You mushed AD declaring him full medieval before crunch time
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 23, 2024, 11:06:07 AM
You mushed AD declaring him full medieval before crunch time
He's freaking soft if he was influenced by my post. But I'm happy Denver punked them.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 23, 2024, 10:46:05 AM
Any medical professionals on here that can explain what's going on with Embiid's left eye? He like can't blink, apparently has been wearing sunglasses around the locker room, and won't look into cameras during press conferences/interviews. Looks really weird.
Maybe some dust got embiided in his eye.
Do you know what is great and ironic about the LeBron and AD complaining about the refs? The Lakers have taken 550+ more FT than their opponents, more than double the closest other team. (just heard this on ESPN radio).
I have no sympathy for any beef they have with the officials, but the Lakers shooting a bunch of free throws during the year isn't evidence for any sort of bias.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 23, 2024, 03:01:24 PM
I have no sympathy for any beef they have with the officials, but the Lakers shooting a bunch of free throws during the year isn't evidence for any sort of bias.
But it does amplify the absurdity of their whining.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 23, 2024, 04:11:29 PM
But it does amplify the absurdity of their whining.
Not really. They may legitimately get fouled a lot.
Apparently one of the Jokic bros punched a fan in the face.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 23, 2024, 04:20:55 PM
Apparently one of the Jokic bros punched a fan in the face.
Maybe he's buddies with Tom Cotton
Hopefully, it was deserved.
Welp, looks like the NBA agrees with the Sixers' "whining" about the no calls.
https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0042300112
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 23, 2024, 03:01:24 PM
I have no sympathy for any beef they have with the officials, but the Lakers shooting a bunch of free throws during the year isn't evidence for any sort of bias.
We are all honored to have you, Mr. Adam Silver, on MUScoop.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 23, 2024, 05:44:57 PM
Welp, looks like the NBA agrees with the Sixers' "whining" about the no calls.
https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0042300112
So the two minute report shows four incorrect actions. One was a defensive three seconds that eventually lead to a Maxey three anyway. One was a foul non-call on Embiid where the Knicks missed a shot and Philly got the rebound. And there were two that should have been called on the inbounds play.
So one missed call on the Knicks that may have actually benefited the Sixers, one missed call on Philly that lead to missed shot and rebound, and a couple on the same play that lead to a Knicks steal.
Looks like it pretty much balances out to me.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 23, 2024, 05:44:57 PM
Welp, looks like the NBA agrees with the Sixers' "whining" about the no calls.
https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0042300112
I've never understood the purpose of this. They can have a 48 minute report and list 50 calls that were wrong.
When people talk about the NBA being a far superior product, the first quarter of Suns/Wolves should not be the point of reference.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 23, 2024, 07:19:12 PM
When people talk about the NBA being a far superior product, the first quarter of Suns/Wolves should not be the point of reference.
Its a Rembrandt compared to most of the Cavs/Magic series
A bit of a concerning start for the Bucks. Indy is consistently getting quality looks.
That zone Is weak. Nix that immediately.
KAT is a really dumb basketball player
The Bucks might want to guard Siakam? WTH are they doing?
Nesmith flexing after he flies 15 feet from barely a shove from Khris is a little ironic.
Really hoping Giannis is back, but fully healthy. These Pacers players acting like they've done anything in their careers besides win a couple In Season Tournament games is pretty funny.
The Bucks can't win a track meet vs Indy.
Ouch. The Bucks can't guard this team at all.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C6G3tMbrzAc/?igsh=ejJuZnRoYnRrazRx
Is there some Jontay Porter action going on with Embiid? First he half ass goes to box out Hart, who is already checked, leaving Hartenstein a clear runway to go get the offensive rebound. Then he's here pushing Lowry away from trying get a 50/50 ball. Not to mention his last second shot attempt looked like he had no clue time was about to expire until the absolute last split second.
Tyler making Herro ball pay off.
Miami with 23 threes tonight and about to win at Boston. Spo is a great coach but sometimes it's just about draining buckets.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 24, 2024, 08:31:46 PM
Miami with 23 threes tonight and about to win at Boston. Spo is a great coach but sometimes it's just about draining buckets.
The Cs didn't play defense on 3s tonight. You can't leave pros open from 3 like that.
Also - https://www.instagram.com/p/C6KtZGoOxl_/?hl=en
SGA is very impressive. Smooth, poised, and has an unflappability to his game. He's the kind of player and talent that I would like at Marquette.
A do everything 6'6 PG who controls the game? Who wouldn't love to have one for a season? He was a one and done at Kentucky. Started college coming off the bench. NBA development slowed by injuries. Now, healthy at 25, he is playing really well.
Do you still think Holmgren is a bust?
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 24, 2024, 10:15:05 PM
SGA is very impressive. Smooth, poised, and has an unflappability to his game. He's the kind of player and talent that I would like at Marquette.
Yes. It would be nice to have someone as talented as the potential NBA MVP at Marquette.
Earth-shattering analysis here...
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 25, 2024, 08:11:54 AM
Yes. It would be nice to have someone as talented as the potential NBA MVP at Marquette.
Earth-shattering analysis here...
Many scoopers would find something to complain about.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 25, 2024, 08:11:54 AM
Yes. It would be nice to have someone as talented as the potential NBA MVP at Marquette.
Earth-shattering analysis here...
We always need to be in an attack mindset/mode. This is just a reminder.
Quote from: tower912 on April 25, 2024, 06:01:04 AM
A do everything 6'6 PG who controls the game? Who wouldn't love to have one for a season? He was a one and done at Kentucky. Started college coming off the bench. NBA development slowed by injuries. Now, healthy at 25, he is playing really well.
Do you still think Holmgren is a bust?
I never said he was a bust,. I believe I suggested/asked that he could be a bust. Clearly I was wrong.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 23, 2024, 10:46:05 AM
Any medical professionals on here that can explain what's going on with Embiid's left eye? He like can't blink, apparently has been wearing sunglasses around the locker room, and won't look into cameras during press conferences/interviews. Looks really weird.
From The Athletic:
Philadelphia 76ers center Joel Embiid has been dealing with a case of Bell's palsy affecting the left side of his face, mouth and eye for more than a week, the reigning NBA MVP said after Thursday night's playoff game.
Bell's palsy is "an unexplained episode of facial muscle weakness or paralysis," according to Johns Hopkins Medicine. It "results from damage to the facial nerve," and there is currently no known cure. Embiid said he has been getting migraines and began experiencing the symptoms shortly before the Sixers' Play-In Tournament game a week ago against the Miami Heat.
It doesn't appear Giannis will be back. The Bucks could be in serious trouble moving forward.
Quote from: lawdog77 on April 25, 2024, 09:12:36 AM
Many scoopers would find something to complain about.
He should have stayed four years to develop.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 26, 2024, 02:59:46 PM
It doesn't appear Giannis will be back. The Bucks could be in serious trouble moving forward.
You should go rewatch game one before you get too close to the ledge.
Just a terrible ending. Can't get a rebound and Dame reduced to foul hunting on offense. Brutal.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 26, 2024, 07:10:10 PM
Just a terrible ending. Can't get a rebound and Dame reduced to foul hunting on offense. Brutal.
All that work to get back into the game and then play that final two minutes. Woof
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 26, 2024, 07:13:46 PM
All that work to get back into the game and then play that final two minutes. Woof
Idiot
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 26, 2024, 07:13:46 PM
All that work to get back into the game and then play that final two minutes. Woof
AH!!! Oh my.
The much maligned Middleton is trying to will em
Lopez needs an oxygen tank.
Rebound the GD ball
Bobby...I love ya, but get a damn rebound.
Doc's team rebounds like Shaka's team.
Stupidest team in the league and it's not close
The old vet fighting
LOL, I have no idea what that was, but OK.
Come on!
Vander Blue-esque
As if the Bucks don't have enough injuries... Pat Bev's ankles are broken!
Quote from: MU82 on April 26, 2024, 07:33:55 PM
As if the Bucks don't have enough injuries... Pat Bev's ankles are broken!
Hopefully out for the playoffs.
Of course, the Bucks are up 20 if Giannis is playing but embarrassing OT defense
Quote from: MU82 on April 26, 2024, 07:33:55 PM
As if the Bucks don't have enough injuries... Pat Bev's ankles are broken!
"past his prime" is too mild to describe Beverly
Am I being irrationally upset at Doc for the Bucks resorting to 90s-era isos instead of running a more free flowing offense late in that game?
Yes.
Yeah, I kinda think so too. Cause just getting a defensive rebound or two would have helped.
This might be the year Luka makes some noise in the playoffs
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 26, 2024, 10:00:28 PM
This might be the year Luka makes some noise in the playoffs
He's already made a Conference Finals. I don't see them getting beyond that this year.
Not a good result for the Bucks.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 26, 2024, 10:08:01 PM
He's already made a Conference Finals. I don't see them getting beyond that this year.
Forgot they did have one.
Wolves should probably stop fouling.
Its the only thing giving the Suns any life in this game or game 2.
Minnesota is making a big statement tonight.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 26, 2024, 11:31:38 PM
Minnesota is making a big statement tonight.
They are definitely the team best equipped to stop the inevitable Denver v Boston finals.
This suns roster is just brutally constructed.
Booker and Beal also look legit bad most of the time
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 26, 2024, 11:48:38 PM
They are definitely the team best equipped to stop the inevitable Denver v Boston finals.
I would agree. Their defense and rebounding could give both teams problems. I don't see a lot of weaknesses on this team. It's basically a experience question. They're also very well coached and have a number of guys that can beat you, not just Edwards. They're just really solid and well coached.
Edwards also gets fouled constantly. Tremendous blow by speed and athleticism.
It's going to be HYSTERICAL when the TWolves and KAT get a title before Jimmy Butler. Especially when they do it without any injury help vaulting their run.
But at least Jimmy will sit on Twitter trolling while about games he's not even playing in.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 26, 2024, 11:49:10 PM
This suns roster is just brutally constructed.
Booker and Beal also look legit bad most of the time
I never thought this "superteam" would work. Durant is showing his age and Beal has never quite been at that level. And the two of them, plus Booker, are all kinda the same player.
I think one of the things the NBA is showing the past few seasons is that well constructed team built from within, with a key addition here and there, are way better options than simply amassing stars and robbing you of depth in the process.
Use the portal sparingly?
Quote from: withoutbias on April 27, 2024, 06:39:11 AM
It's going to be HYSTERICAL when the TWolves and KAT get a title before Jimmy Butler. Especially when they do it without any injury help vaulting their run.
But at least Jimmy will sit on Twitter trolling while about games he's not even playing in.
I'd be good with that
Beal was classic subtraction by addition.
A volume scorer who has rarely played in games that mattered and who has never lifted his team to anything joining an already underachieving team with two other guys who need the basketball.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 27, 2024, 06:55:13 AM
I never thought this "superteam" would work. Durant is showing his age and Beal has never quite been at that level. And the two of them, plus Booker, are all kinda the same player.
I think one of the things the NBA is showing the past few seasons is that well constructed team built from within, with a key addition here and there, are way better options than simply amassing stars and robbing you of depth in the process.
Agreed on both counts. You have to have stars but you have to do it as organically as possilbe to so you can have the right amount of depth.
Before this series everyone called the Suns a horrible match up for the wolves because of 3 regular season wins, with my very vague watching of the regular season I 100% boarded that train as well.
But watching this series the Wolves are a nightmare for this flawed Suns roster. As you said the big 3 are basically the same player. They love the mid range or getting to the hoop. The versatility/physicality of the wolves is making those shots 50 times more difficult.
Announcers kept saying during telecast how Vogel wanted to take 35+ 3s yesterday. The Suns only took 15 until the game became a 20 pt laugher late 3rd.
I guess I missed it but Westbrook acted like a total assclown last night. Totally inexcusable.
Dame spotted in a boot at the Indy Jimmy Johns.
With two starts with Achilles, or Achilles adjacent injuries, the Bucks are done.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 27, 2024, 11:51:40 AM
I guess I missed it but Westbrook acted like a total assclown last night. Totally inexcusable.
He outta be clubbed like a baby seal for his psychotic behavior
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 26, 2024, 11:48:38 PM
They are definitely the team best equipped to stop the inevitable Denver v Boston finals.
OKC on line 1
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 27, 2024, 05:10:28 PM
He outta be clubbed like a baby seal for his psychotic behavior
Seals and baby seals have dealt with tremendous hardships. Besmirching or mocking them for any reason is a condemnation of the human race.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 27, 2024, 06:36:51 PM
Seals and baby seals have dealt with tremendous hardships. Besmirching or mocking them for any reason is a condemnation of the human race.
You truly haven't lived until you've medium rare baby seal with a nice chianti. To Die For!
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 27, 2024, 11:51:40 AM
I guess I missed it but Westbrook acted like a total assclown last night. Totally inexcusable.
he grabbed doncic' arm and spun him but doncic is a cry baby and I'd have to give him an A for his acting because he gave a Grammy or Emmy or whatever they call those "awards" today
Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 27, 2024, 08:11:43 PM
he grabbed doncic' arm and spun him but doncic is a cry baby and I'd have to give him an A for his acting because he gave a Grammy or Emmy or whatever they call those "awards" today
Lol.
Quote from: withoutbias on April 27, 2024, 06:39:11 AM
It's going to be HYSTERICAL when the TWolves and KAT get a title before Jimmy Butler. Especially when they do it without any injury help vaulting their run.
But at least Jimmy will sit on Twitter trolling while about games he's not even playing in.
JFB's story is an amazing one. From homelessness as a high schooler to a Hall of Fame career.
Your story is also amazing after a fashion. When it comes to obsession, jealousy and envy you too are a legit Hall of Famer.
Quote from: withoutbias on April 27, 2024, 06:39:11 AM
It's going to be HYSTERICAL when the TWolves and KAT get a title before Jimmy Butler. Especially when they do it without any injury help vaulting their run.
But at least Jimmy will sit on Twitter trolling while about games he's not even playing in.
Much respect for Edwards, but no team with Gobert can ever win a championship. KAT almost in the same category. Just doesn't know how to win.
Quote from: WarriorFan on April 28, 2024, 08:50:54 AM
Much respect for Edwards, but no team with Gobert can ever win a championship. KAT almost in the same category. Just doesn't know how to win.
I'm not sure that's accurate. They're playing with a much better team than in past years. They're also deeper than the other contenders.
Historically, NBA teams have had to "wait their turn" to be legit title contenders. The Timberwolves' best players are young and untested in the playoffs, and they've never even experienced a playoff-series victory, let alone sniffed a conference final.
Compare that to a team like Denver and their stars Jokic and Murray - got to R2 in 2019; conf final in 2020; R2 in 2021; experienced a major (and motivating) step back in 2022; won the title in 2023. Minnesota (and OKC, for that matter) have nothing like that.
And that's the way it's largely played out in the NBA for decades. Heck, as good as they've been, Boston still hasn't been able to break through. Neither has Philly.
Obviously, that doesn't mean this can't be the year Minnesota wins it all, just that history suggests it won't be.
Quote from: lawdog77 on April 27, 2024, 05:13:34 PM
OKC on line 1
OKC is good and could beat the Wolves in a series absolutely
But match up wise vs the Nuggets its 100% the wolves that match them better.
Quote from: MU82 on April 28, 2024, 11:00:10 AM
Historically, NBA teams have had to "wait their turn" to be legit title contenders. The Timberwolves' best players are young and untested in the playoffs, and they've never even experienced a playoff-series victory, let alone sniffed a conference final.
Compare that to a team like Denver and their stars Jokic and Murray - got to R2 in 2019; conf final in 2020; R2 in 2021; experienced a major (and motivating) step back in 2022; won the title in 2023. Minnesota (and OKC, for that matter) have nothing like that.
And that's the way it's largely played out in the NBA for decades. Heck, as good as they've been, Boston still hasn't been able to break through. Neither has Philly.
Obviously, that doesn't mean this can't be the year Minnesota wins it all, just that history suggests it won't be.
Lakers in 7?
I think Minnesota could give Denver major probs but I get your point. Truthfully Denver hasn't shot the ball well at all during this series with LA. I do know the Wolves have a much better bench than Denver and are really solid defensively. The question is can they score enough and is a 22 yr old ready to take over? I definitely would give Denver the edge but only slightly and mostly because of experience
you get a little more consistency out of Jaden mcdaniel and towns, the wolves could be pretty dominating
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 28, 2024, 11:16:05 AM
OKC is good and could beat the Wolves in a series absolutely
But match up wise vs the Nuggets its 100% the wolves that match them better.
I just hope OKC loses because of the stupid AT&T commercial.
Quote from: lawdog77 on April 28, 2024, 01:49:06 PM
I just hope OKC loses because of the stupid AT&T commercial.
Haha it is getting very over played. Think its almost every commerical break on ESPN. And always on my damn hulu
Intense finish to the Knicks/Sixers game.
I have no idea what Philly is even trying to do offensively to win this game. Both teams have pretty much sucked down the stretch. Embiid a total non-factor.
So impressed with the Knicks' defense - both Thibs' defensive game plan and the players' effort/execution. Rebounding, too.
But yes, the Sixers' offense is at a standstill.
Quote from: MU82 on April 28, 2024, 02:40:01 PM
So impressed with the Knicks' defense - both Thibs' defensive game plan and the players' effort/execution. Rebounding, too.
But yes, the Sixers' offense is at a standstill.
The Knicks don't have their starting center, their 2nd string center has been out the entire 4th Q with foul trouble, and Philly can't get quality shots. Embiid is totally gassed and hasn't sat the entire 2nd H. I disagree with Richard Jefferson that Embiid shouldn't have sat. He's.been atrocious on both ends of the floor and can't get a reb.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 28, 2024, 02:43:58 PM
The Knicks don't have their starting center, their 2nd string center has been out the entire 4th Q with foul trouble, and Philly can't get quality shots. Embiid is totally gassed and hasn't sat the entire 2nd H. I disagree with Richard Jefferson that Embiid shouldn't have sat. He's.been atrocious on both ends of the floor and can't get a reb.
That's fair. I've only watched the fourth quarter, and I have no trouble saying that Nurse has been outcoached. And I like Nurse.
Quote from: MU82 on April 28, 2024, 02:47:04 PM
That's fair. I've only watched the fourth quarter, and I have no trouble saying that Nurse has been outcoached. And I like Nurse.
Embiid has literally stood in the corner for about a quarter and a half and has maybe 2 rebounds. He's been an unmitigated disaster, playing against a guy who never plays. And Nurse has crapped the bed as well.
I think the Sixers are poorly constructed. I mean, Kyle Lowery should not be a rotation player on an NBA contender these days. But I don't think Nurse has added much of anything.
You know, I was never a big Jeff Van Gundy and Marc Jackson fan, but there is something to be said for an announcing team that has experience and knows how to play off one another. I like Burke and Redick is OK, but Breen seems lost.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 28, 2024, 03:02:47 PM
You know, I was never a big Jeff Van Gundy and Marc Jackson fan, but there is something to be said for an announcing team that has experience and knows how to play off one another. I like Burke and Redick is OK, but Breen seems lost.
Maybe he is lost? TNT should have all of the games. Ian Eagle and Harlan are excellent and of course the studio quartet at TNT is 1000 times better than ESPN.
I like Breen a lot. TNT's coverage is better no doubt, but Breen IMO great.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 28, 2024, 03:11:12 PM
I like Breen a lot. TNT's coverage is better no doubt, but Breen IMO great.
He's fine but perhaps needs a break. He inexplicably lost his broadcast team.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 28, 2024, 03:09:18 PM
TNT should have all of the games.
Except ...
1. ESPN paid big money to have lots of games.
2. TNT probably doesn't want all of the games, or at least doesn't want to pay for the right to have all of the games.
The NBA can live just fine with ESPN being one of its "broadcast partners" when the billions keep rolling in.
Mavs with a nice run to end the half and keep hope alive after the Clippers blacked out for a half
don't get me wrong as doncic' is a rare talent but how does he keep that dad bod in shape playing a game that's gotta burn Uber calories. he doesn't look like he'd make it up/down the floor 4 times without seizing up
WOW
We might need to have a conversation about Ty Lue being a "great" coach as many like to claim
Quote from: JWags85 on April 28, 2024, 04:43:41 PM
We might need to have a conversation about Ty Lue being a "great" coach as many like to claim
Between Nurse and Lue, the hot names in the Bucks search haven't fared well.
Quote from: JWags85 on April 28, 2024, 04:43:41 PM
We might need to have a conversation about Ty Lue being a "great" coach as many like to claim
that always had me scratching my head too
harden's got these refs figured out-play soccer injury to get the calls
Clips pull it out
woulda been an unmitigated disaster as Muggs would say
I get why Kidd put P.J. Washington on Harden - nobody else was containing him, and Washington has size and decent speed. What I don't get is why Kidd was having Washington pressure Harden 40 feet away from the basket. Every time, Harden would just drive past Washington, get into the lane and create all kinds of havoc.
This Bucks team is made up of old, slow, overpaid and over-the-hill has-beens. Peddle their asses, hey?
Down Giannis and Lillard, for all they're worth, Porter pulls the ultimate boner and gets tossed. Brilliant, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 28, 2024, 06:32:23 PM
Down Giannis and Lillard, for all they're worth, Porter pulls the ultimate boner and gets tossed. Brilliant, hey?
Portis.
Another mistake, Fluffster, hey?
now it's an ass kicking contest with a one legged man
Pacers ever miss a 3, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 28, 2024, 06:32:23 PM
Down Giannis and Lillard, for all they're worth, Porter pulls the ultimate boner and gets tossed. Brilliant, hey?
What happened?
Lillard looks totally checked out sittin' on da pines messin' wit his fone, aina?
Muggs, Portis decided to man up after gettin' into a pissin' match under the basket and managed to get his ass tossed, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 28, 2024, 06:52:37 PM
Muggs, Portis decided to man up after gettin' into a pissin' match under the basket and managed to get his ass tossed, hey?
.
Totally inexcusable in a game of this magnitude and with their injuries. Smh.
Bucks just let Indiana shoot uncontested 3's, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 28, 2024, 07:07:56 PM
Bucks just let Indiana shoot uncontested 3's, hey?
Somehow they are right there. But they will need to go medieval in the 2H. Their defense has probs.
This is the equivalent of the MU/Creighton game in Omaha. No Kolek or Oso with Tre throwing up. Playing absolutely fearlessly on the road. Probably ultimately a similar result, but man, the Buck played some legendary basketball for a half.
Legendary as in Stew Morrill? Bucks are not built to go up and down the court with these young studs. Won't win this game in the 120's, aina?
Legendary as in missing multiple key players yet still being competitive in a road playoff game.
Now Middleton is hurt. Put me in coach, I can be center field, hey?
The Bucks are fked.
Down two hall of famers and Portis? Inevitable. Good fight.
Did we recruit Haliburton?
Game, set, match, aina?
They're scoring but can they get enough stops?
Start the bus.
Who are the 5 fastest/quickest ballers in NBA history? I know I'm biased but Muggsy had insane quicks. Maxey is up there. I'll slot Muggs and AI in the top 5. After that I'm open to a discussion.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 28, 2024, 08:15:48 PM
Who are the 5 fastest/quickest ballers in NBA history? I know I'm biased but Muggsy had insane quicks. Maxey is up there. I'll slot Muggs and AI in the top 5. After that I'm open to a discussion.
Shawn Bradley
Feel like Muggs asks this question the same time each year.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 28, 2024, 08:32:31 PM
Feel like Muggs asks this question the same time each year.
Maybe. But I can't get answers for some reason.
Tiny Archibald, Zeke, Iverson, John Wall
Quote from: tower912 on April 28, 2024, 08:47:11 PM
Tiny Archibald, Zeke, Iverson, John Wall
How good was Archibald in his prime?
One of the great little guys. Google and YouTube can tell you more than I can.
Quote from: tower912 on April 28, 2024, 09:01:21 PM
One of the great little guys. Google and YouTube can tell you more than I can.
There's minimal footage from his Kansas City Kings days.
Back in the day, standing in the beer line with a buddy at the old Nassau Coliseum -athletic looking guy comes by sees my buddy runs up, handshakes hugs, etc. My buddy says "Hey Mutaman, meet Tiny Archibald, we went to DeWitt Clinton together."
Tiny bought us both beers. Really nice guy.
Quote from: Mutaman on April 28, 2024, 09:53:46 PM
Back in the day, standing in the beer line with a buddy at the old Nassau Coliseum -athletic looking guy comes by sees my buddy runs up, handshakes hugs, etc. My buddy says "Hey Mutaman, meet Tiny Archibald, we went to DeWitt Clinton together.
Tiny bought us both beers. Really nice guy.
Awesome! But what are we talking about with NA fron a pure skill and quicks standpoint? All I know is he is the only player to lead the league in pts and dimes in a single season. Ty.
Vintage Durant game going on right now
Hello!!!! Did you see that??
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 28, 2024, 07:52:11 PM
Game, set, match, aina?
Nothing gets you mass posting quicker that MU or the Bucks losing.
A loser at everything you do.
Edward's is absolutely unhinged in this second half. This is remarkable. He may be a top 5 player by next year. His all around game is skyrocketing
Quote from: JWags85 on April 28, 2024, 11:15:53 PM
Edward's is absolutely unhinged in this second half. This is remarkable. He may be a top 5 player by next year. His all around game is skyrocketing
Tremendous performance by the young man. He owned the 2H.
Not that the Wolves have any sort of rich playoff history
But ANT already passed KG for most 30 pt playoff games in franchise history
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 28, 2024, 10:17:36 PM
Vintage Durant game going on right now
Losing in the Playoffs?
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on April 28, 2024, 11:23:50 PM
Not that the Wolves have any sort of rich playoff history
But ANT already passed KG for most 30 pt playoff games in franchise history
31 in the 2H.
I don't know if he plays any role, but the fact that Isiah Thomas is friends with the Suns' owner probably is a factor in their disappointing season.
Quote from: Jockey on April 28, 2024, 11:13:53 PM
Nothing gets you mass posting quicker that MU or the Bucks losing.
A loser at everything you do.
Wrong, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 29, 2024, 03:24:04 AM
Wrong, hey?
Correct. You also post when the Packers and Brewers lose
Quote from: JWags85 on April 28, 2024, 11:15:53 PM
Edward's is absolutely unhinged in this second half. This is remarkable. He may be a top 5 player by next year. His all around game is skyrocketing
The most talented player that the NBA has ever seen.
<ducks>
Apparently Jimmy's tweets and mousekateer haircut didn't push this series in Miami's favor.
Gotta love the ROI Miami is getting on Duncan Robinson.
That was a crazy call on Bam. Wow.
Denver is not the team they were last season. And they're banged up.
Quote from: lawdog77 on April 29, 2024, 08:41:27 PM
Gotta love the ROI Miami is getting on Duncan Robinson.
The guy that was shooting 40% from 3 on 7 attempts a game this year until he was out with back issues and he's just trying to come back now.
Nice to see OKC slam the door.
Murray is something else.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on April 29, 2024, 09:51:52 PM
The guy that was shooting 40% from 3 on 7 attempts a game this year until he was out with back issues and he's just trying to come back now.
Don't think the playoffs are the time to try to work back into shape. Two straight o-fers. Since March 17th he's averaging about 4 points per game, shooting 25%. Maybe the all knowing Spoelstra shouldn't be playing him
Quote from: lawdog77 on April 30, 2024, 05:05:08 AM
Don't think the playoffs are the time to try to work back into shape. Two straight o-fers. Since March 17th he's averaging about 4 points per game, shooting 25%. Maybe the all knowing Spoelstra shouldn't be playing him
He still has gravity, the Heat team has 3 starters out at this point. You're right though, maybe coach spo is a fraud lol
Quote from: Skatastrophy on April 30, 2024, 07:43:27 AM
He still has gravity, the Heat team has 3 starters out at this point. You're right though, maybe coach spo is a fraud lol
Not calling Spo a fraud, but playing Robinson is not the right call. Heck,Jamal would be better.
Quote from: lawdog77 on April 30, 2024, 08:23:05 AM
Not calling Spo a fraud, but playing Robinson is not the right call. Heck,Jamal would be better.
You're not wrong, I'm putting words in your mouth my bad. I don't think 2-way players can play in the playoffs, I think that was just a covid rule change that reverted?
Quote from: Skatastrophy on April 30, 2024, 08:56:59 AM
You're not wrong, I'm putting words in your mouth my bad. I don't think 2-way players can play in the playoffs, I think that was just a covid rule change that reverted?
No worries. My whole point is that an 18 mil/yr guy should be giving you more than 3 points game in the playoffs. Add that to the DNP in the playin game. I am definitely not on team Duncan.
The Duncan contract was a poor one that wouldn't happen if they could have it over. They will still need to carry him next year (unless they find a willing partner), but can get out with only a $9 million hit the next year.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 30, 2024, 09:24:49 AM
The Duncan contract was a poor one that wouldn't happen if they could have it over. They will still need to carry him next year (unless they find a willing partner), but can get out with only a $9 million hit the next year.
I don't think the Heat will ever deal Duncan. Y'all are nuts, he was up for the NBAs most improved player awards even though he was dealing with a series of injuries this season. You're a year late with the Duncan hate, IMO.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 29, 2024, 11:26:56 PM
Murray is something else.
Impossibly, Jamal Murray is one of the most underrated players in the NBA. He's better than so many of the more visible stars, but because he plays on the same team as the league's obvious MVP, he is so often overlooked. But hey ... for a basketball assassin like him, that probably works in his favor.
With Murray and SGA as the starting guards for Canada, they should make some noise at the Olympics.
Quote from: MU82 on April 30, 2024, 09:37:35 AM
Impossibly, Jamal Murray is one of the most underrated players in the NBA. He's better than so many of the more visible stars, but because he plays on the same team as the league's obvious MVP, he is so often overlooked. But hey ... for a basketball assassin like him, that probably works in his favor.
Well he's incredible in tbe clutch. That said, I really think Minnesota has the roster to beat them. I am still picking Denver because of experience but it's a difficult call.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on April 30, 2024, 09:32:18 AM
I don't think the Heat will ever deal Duncan. Y'all are nuts, he was up for the NBAs most improved player awards even though he was dealing with a series of injuries this season. You're a year late with the Duncan hate, IMO.
His advanced stats are pretty terrible given his contract.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 30, 2024, 10:06:06 AM
His advanced stats are pretty terrible given his contract.
But he passes the eye test.
His massive improvement this year was in dribble-driving where he's ~5x'd the % of shots he's taking at the rim and he's making them at a 60% clip. It's completely opened his offensive game up, and helped the Heat offense flow more effectively. Combined with his 40%+ 3point shooting at high volume he's a real asset. Combined with big jump in assists, while turning the ball over at the same clip he's turned a corner in his game. Sucks getting injured in the last month of the year, though. I appreciate him trying to push through.
You guys all know I'm a Heat homer, so sorry if these are hot-takes. I don't even realize it honestly I'm in so deep.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 28, 2024, 08:15:48 PM
Who are the 5 fastest/quickest ballers in NBA history? I know I'm biased but Muggsy had insane quicks. Maxey is up there. I'll slot Muggs and AI in the top 5. After that I'm open to a discussion.
Prime Rose was insanely fast. Maxey reminds me of him often except with a high school reading level
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on April 30, 2024, 02:19:31 PM
Prime Rose was insanely fast. Maxey reminds me of him often except with a high school reading level
I think Rose, Wall (pre-injury), and young prime Westbrook are probably the fastest of the last 10+ years. Fox may be the fastest guy in the league right now.
It will cause a certain poster to gnash his teeth and tear his clothes but I don't think Muggsy even makes the top 5 PGs when looking only at guys who played post 2000. Nate Robinson was a far faster little guy and the dudes above were past even him. Modern explosiveness training is insane.
I never thought I would say things about a Thibs team, but these Knicks are fun to watch. Especially in transition.
Man, I know some were high on Nick Nurse, but IDK what the Sixers are even doing here on offense.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 30, 2024, 06:56:46 PM
Man, I know some were high on Nick Nurse, but IDK what the Sixers are even doing here on offense.
I said that the other night.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 30, 2024, 08:17:32 PM
I said that the other night.
Buddy Hield addition was a flop
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 30, 2024, 08:21:01 PM
Buddy Hield addition was a flop
Maxey is an absolute stud. Wow.
Quote from: JWags85 on April 30, 2024, 06:06:17 PM
I think Rose, Wall (pre-injury), and young prime Westbrook are probably the fastest of the last 10+ years. Fox may be the fastest guy in the league right now.
It will cause a certain poster to gnash his teeth and tear his clothes but I don't think Muggsy even makes the top 5 PGs when looking only at guys who played post 2000. Nate Robinson was a far faster little guy and the dudes above were past even him. Modern explosiveness training is insane.
I feel Earl Boykin is probably up there.
Brunson is a poor man's Tyko. :)
Quote from: cheebs09 on April 30, 2024, 08:36:14 PM
I feel Earl Boykin is probably up there.
JWags is 100% incorrect on Bogues.
How in the world was that not a foul against Maxey?
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 30, 2024, 08:41:26 PM
JWags is 100% incorrect on Bogues.
Bogues was complete sh it
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 30, 2024, 08:41:26 PM
JWags is 100% incorrect on Bogues.
Bogues was a novelty because of his size. Like those mini beenie babies from McDonalds in the 90s
Quote from: GB Warrior on April 30, 2024, 09:44:27 PM
Bogues was a novelty because of his size. Like those mini beenie babies from McDonalds in the 90s
Bshit. The man played 14 years in the NBA at 5'3.
Dead cat bounce for the Bucks, perhaps, but there will be hope for 48 hours. If Dame and Giannis return, suppose anything is possible. Win or lose, Pacers have shown themselves to be tremendous frauds.
Quote from: GB Warrior on April 30, 2024, 11:08:57 PM
Dead cat bounce for the Bucks, perhaps, but there will be hope for 48 hours. If Dame and Giannis return, suppose anything is possible. Win or lose, Pacers have shown themselves to be tremendous frauds.
It's unfortunate Portis was kicked out of game 4.
Cathartic win, regardless of what happens Thursday. Wish they would have had that tenacity on the boards in game 3.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 30, 2024, 11:21:13 PM
It's unfortunate Portis was kicked out of game 4.
Bigger loss was game 3. They had it.
Going to be there when they put Middleton's jersey up in the rafters
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 01, 2024, 06:47:16 AM
Going to be there when they put Middleton's jersey up in the rafters
He'll be up there with such luminaries as Brian Winters and Jon McGlocklin.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 01, 2024, 07:42:14 AM
He'll be up there with such luminaries as Brian Winters and Jon McGlocklin.
Jonny Mac I could understand to a degree, but the Winters one always puzzled me. Same with Lanier, who had pedestrian numbers with the Bucks.
Khris absolutely belongs up there. 11 seasons, 3 time all star, NBA Champion. Third in franchise history in points and assists, #2 in games played, #1 in three pointers.
Quote from: MUfan12 on May 01, 2024, 09:00:45 AM
Jonny Mac I could understand to a degree, but the Winters one always puzzled me. Same with Lanier, who had pedestrian numbers with the Bucks.
Khris absolutely belongs up there. 11 seasons, 3 time all star, NBA Champion. Third in franchise history in points and assists, #2 in games played, #1 in three pointers.
Oh he absolutely belongs up there. Probably, what...the fifth best in team history behind Kareem, Giannis, Moncrief and Dandridge?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 01, 2024, 10:46:55 AM
Oh he absolutely belongs up there. Probably, what...the fifth best in team history behind Kareem, Giannis, Moncrief and Dandridge?
I'd put him before Dandridge. I'd listen to a debate about Moncrief versus him.
I can go with Dandridge, but in the early 80s, Sidney Moncrief was absolutely one of the best players in the league to the point where he made an All NBA first team. Those Bucks teams were so easy to root for but could simply never get over the hump. Middleton never had that peak.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 01, 2024, 11:27:58 AM
I can go with Dandridge, but in the early 80s, Sidney Moncrief was absolutely one of the best players in the league to the point where he made an All NBA first team. Those Bucks teams were so easy to root for but could simply never get over the hump. Middleton never had that peak.
Sid was an incredible defender. I don't have any issue with anyone putting him ahead of Khris.
Sounds like Darvin Ham is toast.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 01, 2024, 12:42:56 PM
Ham ... toast.
Add a slice of cheese, a little spicy brown mustard, and some lettuce and tomato, and you've got a nice sandwich there.
Quote from: MU82 on May 01, 2024, 12:46:02 PM
Add a slice of cheese, a little spicy brown mustard, and some lettuce and tomato, and you've got a nice sandwich there.
Croque monsieur is better, or in this case "croak monsieur" might be more appropriate.
Another Porter in trouble.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/40064144/jevon-porter-brother-michael-porter-jr-arrested-suspicion-dwi (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/40064144/jevon-porter-brother-michael-porter-jr-arrested-suspicion-dwi)
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 01, 2024, 12:42:56 PM
Sounds like Darvin Ham is toast.
Being Lebron's coach is like being Henry VIII's wife
Quote from: JWags85 on May 01, 2024, 01:29:07 PM
Being Lebron's coach is like being Henry VIII's wife
I don't think we've had any decapitations yet
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 01, 2024, 01:51:48 PM
I don't think we've had any decapitations yet
Have we seen David Blatt lately?
Quote from: lawdog77 on May 01, 2024, 01:06:45 PM
Croque monsieur is better, or in this case "croak monsieur" might be more appropriate.
Nice.
I'm starting to think this may not be the Heat's year.
Quote from: JWags85 on May 01, 2024, 01:29:07 PM
Being Lebron's coach is like being Henry VIII's wife
And Darvin Ham hasn't produced an heir.
Tyler Herro was nice this postseason. Classic case of subtraction by addition.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 02, 2024, 10:30:52 AM
Tyler Herro was nice this postseason. Classic case of subtraction by addition.
The homer take is that he was our player left to guard so he got no gifts.
No PG (and he didn't step up), didn't hit open shots, and he couldn't guard anyone 1-5 on the Cs in the series. Pretty disappointing.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on May 02, 2024, 12:47:08 PM
The homer take is that he was our player left to guard so he got no gifts.
No PG (and he didn't step up), didn't hit open shots, and he couldn't guard anyone 1-5 on the Cs in the series. Pretty disappointing.
Yeah. He is gifted offensively, but can be somewhat of a ball stopper (though he does make plays for others). And as you said, he can't guard anyone. He's a useful NBA player, but it's wild if he was really a non-negotiable for any true stars that were on the market.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 02, 2024, 02:00:08 PM
Yeah. He is gifted offensively, but can be somewhat of a ball stopper (though he does make plays for others). And as you said, he can't guard anyone. He's a useful NBA player, but it's wild if he was really a non-negotiable for any true stars that were on the market.
It's why the Hausers wouldn't play with him
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 02, 2024, 02:00:50 PM
It's why the Hausers wouldn't play with him
Dave and Stephanie know ball.
Dame in, Giannis out tonight.
Hard to compete when Tony Brothers is in the bag
Quote from: GB Warrior on May 02, 2024, 06:41:16 PM
Hard to compete when Tony Brothers is in the bag
And can't defend with Damian Lillard on the court.
I guess the Bucks crapped the bed? It will be an interesting offseason.
Congratulations to former Chicago Bulls coach Jim Boylen for reaching the second round of the playoffs.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 02, 2024, 08:22:48 PM
I guess the Bucks crapped the bed? It will be an interesting offseason.
They lost a road Playoff game without one of the 3 best players in the world available. Not sure that'd be my definition of crapping the bed.
Three postseasons in a row with major pieces missing for the Bucks. Two of the three with Giannis down all or significant time. This year being the worst with Dame down for two games also.
Hopefully having Doc from training camp will make a big difference next year. But significant injuries every postseason since their championship is incredibly frustrating.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on May 02, 2024, 08:51:50 PM
Three postseasons in a row with major pieces missing for the Bucks. Two of the three with Giannis down all or significant time. This year being the worst with Dame down for two games also.
Hopefully having Doc from training camp will make a big difference next year. But significant injuries every postseason since their championship is incredibly frustrating.
Giannis has not been healthy which is a major concern. But the truth is that team is significantly flawed and old. I don't think their options are great moving forward.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on May 02, 2024, 08:51:50 PM
Three postseasons in a row with major pieces missing for the Bucks. Two of the three with Giannis down all or significant time. This year being the worst with Dame down for two games also.
Hopefully having Doc from training camp will make a big difference next year. But significant injuries every postseason since their championship is incredibly frustrating.
Will Dame even be on the team next year?
Dumb challenge by Nurse there.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 02, 2024, 09:01:06 PM
Will Dame even be on the team next year?
I will be shocked if he is. Especially if Doc is the coach.
He never fit into the offense and his defense was at a Tre Young level.
The experiment was a failure.
Heck ot a ballgame.
They would be trading him for pennies on the dollar if they trade him now, after his worst season ever and getting older.
And you aren't trading for picks when Giannis could ask out any moment.
There's almost no chance at all he isn't on the Bucks next year.
He gowne, hey?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 02, 2024, 09:01:06 PM
Will Dame even be on the team next year?
if there are some personality issues between dame and the others, especially Giannis then no.
I'm not sure what docs style is, but unless the players are all in, he could be another past coach on the payroll. he's got a 58.8% winning record...not really a lot to brag about. I hate to rip an MU guy as I have nothing against him except the fact that i've continually scratched my head as his choice to be a head coach or GM in the league. he's a nice guy, but...
has any team had 3 past HC's on the payroll while paying another big bucks(no pun)?
they never should have gotten rid of jrue holiday
I would've tried to trade Middleton and some others for another stud, maybe dame, but NOT get rid of jrue.
Adios Horst too, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 03, 2024, 06:12:50 AM
Adios Horst too, aina?
bring back Herbie hey...even if they have to pull off a "weekend at bernies' with him, just prop him up on the sidelines like they do with ice cream breath
Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 03, 2024, 06:15:07 AM
bring back Herbie hey...even if they have to pull off a "weekend at bernies' with him, just prop him up on the sidelines like they do with ice cream breath
Zero need to add this to this topic.
Horst should be fired for hiring Doc Rivers. Wouldn't let him coach a rec league team
Rough night for Pat Beverly
Question out of ignorance - if the Bucks had known they would acquire Dame later in the year, would/should they still have fired Bud? Bud's cardinal sin was that his playoff offenses were stagnant and bland, right? It seems Dame was brought in to fix that and that Bud is also a better defensive coach than either Griffin or Doc?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 03, 2024, 06:49:00 AM
Zero need to add this to this topic.
Yea thats as bad as any TDS-centric post others have rightfully complained about here. Why would we ever want to keep another thread unbothered?
Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 03, 2024, 06:09:49 AM
if there are some personality issues between dame and the others, especially Giannis then no.
I'm not sure what docs style is, but unless the players are all in, he could be another past coach on the payroll. he's got a 58.8% winning record...not really a lot to brag about. I hate to rip an MU guy as I have nothing against him except the fact that i've continually scratched my head as his choice to be a head coach or GM in the league. he's a nice guy, but...
has any team had 3 past HC's on the payroll while paying another big bucks(no pun)?
they never should have gotten rid of jrue holiday
I would've tried to trade Middleton and some others for another stud, maybe dame, but NOT get rid of jrue.
I mean, hard to trash Middleton after the series he just played. It also is a nice thought...if Khris was eligible to be traded last offseason.
Also, Doc isn't a good coach, but they didn't fire 2 coaches and sign a guy to a 4 year contract to pay a 4th coach all at once. And his winning percentage is certainly not what you'd point to to prove Doc isn't a good coach. That winning percentage is good for 36th best ever, and that includes guys like Joe Prunty, Adrian Griffin, and 14 other guys who coached 3 or fewer years in the NBA. It's the 6th best of any active coach, ahead of Erik Spoelstra.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 03, 2024, 10:59:59 AM
I mean, hard to trash Middleton after the series he just played. It also is a nice thought...if Khris was eligible to be traded last offseason.
Also, Doc isn't a good coach, but they didn't fire 2 coaches and sign a guy to a 4 year contract to pay a 4th coach all at once. And his winning percentage is certainly what you'd point to to prove Doc isn't a good coach. That winning percentage is good for 36th best ever, and that includes guys like Joe Prunty, Adrian Griffin, and 14 other guys who coached 3 or fewer years in the NBA. It's the 6th best of any active coach, ahead of Erik Spoelstra.
Khris's mortal sin was getting paid
And they tried to trade Middleton instead of Holliday and teams didn't bite. Understandably so considering his recent injury history. Gotta have a willing partner.
And they had to do something. Running that same group back wasn't going to work.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 02, 2024, 10:58:27 PM
They would be trading him for pennies on the dollar if they trade him now, after his worst season ever and getting older.
And you aren't trading for picks when Giannis could ask out any moment.
There's almost no chance at all he isn't on the Bucks next year.
I don't disagree with your reasoning, and after hearing Damian and Horst talk, I think there is a chance he stays.
But I'll still be surprised.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on May 03, 2024, 08:53:04 AM
Rough night for Pat Beverly
Oh man, that's gonna cost him. A lot. Jae was in there trying to keep him from spending even more money.
Ham to da Bucks?
🙏
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on May 03, 2024, 02:18:48 PM
🙏
That would be right up there with Pau going to the Lakers.
I don't think Silver is going to ramrod that trade.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 03, 2024, 02:12:38 PM
Ham to da Bucks?
Maybe, but it is clear the Lakers have solved their issues and should be odds on favorites to win the Championship next year. ::)
Hope this Nuggets / Wolves series goes 7.
Anthony Edwards is such a joy to watch.
I remember laughing about the idea that teams would be wise to not take Edwards 1 because of his motor and that he doesn't love the game. Just hilarious stuff.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 04, 2024, 09:00:45 PM
I remember laughing about the idea that teams would be wise to not take Edwards 1 because of his motor and that he doesn't love the game. Just hilarious stuff.
Great job by Coach Crean getting him ready for the NBA. Can see why he went to Georgia and not Virginia
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 04, 2024, 09:19:59 PM
Great job by Coach Crean getting him ready for the NBA. Can see why he went to Georgia and not Virginia
Yep. Had more than twice as many shots as any of.his teammates. Not the way the game should be played.
Quote from: lawdog77 on May 04, 2024, 09:22:40 PM
Yep. Had more than twice as many shots as any of.his teammates. Not the way the game should be played.
Say what you will, but Tom Crean develops hall of famers. Edwards made a wise choice playing for Coach
Game 2 will be very interesting. I think Denver's injuries are a big problem defensively on Edwards. Gordon can't guard him and KCP isn't right. I also think the Lakers did not prepare Denver for this team. They're much better than LA. Jokic is going to have to dominate G2. I would also probably hard double Ant and take my chances with his supporting cast.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 03, 2024, 10:59:59 AM
I mean, hard to trash Middleton after the series he just played. It also is a nice thought...if Khris was eligible to be traded last offseason.
Also, Doc isn't a good coach, but they didn't fire 2 coaches and sign a guy to a 4 year contract to pay a 4th coach all at once. And his winning percentage is certainly not what you'd point to to prove Doc isn't a good coach. That winning percentage is good for 36th best ever, and that includes guys like Joe Prunty, Adrian Griffin, and 14 other guys who coached 3 or fewer years in the NBA. It's the 6th best of any active coach, ahead of Erik Spoelstra.
his playoff record is 113-108, but he does have a ring. he seems like he has been given the reins of pretty decent teams with most of the pieces in place however. not sure if he's ever been tasked to build a team like San Antonio or Minnesota for example.
4 year contract is probably the going rate looking at 2 previous coaches with tire tracks across their bodies in less than a full season. budenholzer had a 70% reg. season record, 60% in the playoffs and is road kill, Adrian was hand picked by, ahem, the freak himself
as I said, nothing against doc, but he seems to be an expensive "plug-in" or next best up on the list. he just dsesn't seem to have the enthusiasm or fire in his belly to push a team to be better.
what coach could stand up to Giannis with respect, yet tell him to quit beating the chit out of his body going to the hole. Gianni's needs to learn how to pick his fights a little better so maybe he's around for the post season which is the real season
Quote from: wadesworld on May 04, 2024, 09:00:45 PM
I remember laughing about the idea that teams would be wise to not take Edwards 1 because of his motor and that he doesn't love the game. Just hilarious stuff.
I guess I wasn't paying attention at draft time 2020.
But I keep seeing that quote. Absolutely wild that was a scouting report
These Nova guys on the Knicks are pretty good.
There were 40 uncalled offensive fouls at least as bad as that one in this game.
Brunson with his 4th straight 40 piece.
Uhh.......can you say speed? Minny has Denver in a world of hurt.
Phenomenal half by the Wolves.
HOOOOOWWWWWWLLLLLL
Quote from: MU82 on May 06, 2024, 09:10:53 PM
There were 40 uncalled offensive fouls at least as bad as that one in this game.
The officiating in tbe Knicks/Pacers game was pretty brutal. Especially down the stretch.
This was another emphatic message from Minny. Just a total ass kicking, and Denver doesn't seem to have any answers.
Quote from: Jay Bee on May 06, 2024, 10:31:52 PM
HOOOOOWWWWWWLLLLLL
don't you guys go skol or something? is that a call for another shot or a lip?
btw, I like that team
Unlikely but interesting to see if NBA suspends Murray.
Also, Hart for the Knicks and his rebounding have been insanely impressively
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 07, 2024, 09:36:42 AM
Unlikely but interesting to see if NBA suspends Murray.
Also, Hart for the Knicks and his rebounding have been insanely impressively
Beyond the friendship with Brunson, I said from the minute they made that trade that he was a PERFECT fit for a Thibs team like that. I went to a Knicks game with my BIL (a Knicks die hard) shortly after the trade and we spent a good chunk of the game marveling at Hart being EVERYWHERE. He's a glue guy but also fills up the stat sheet all over the place. He's become one of my favorite players in the league.
Quote from: JWags85 on May 07, 2024, 09:47:46 AM
Beyond the friendship with Brunson, I said from the minute they made that trade that he was a PERFECT fit for a Thibs team like that. I went to a Knicks game with my BIL (a Knicks die hard) shortly after the trade and we spent a good chunk of the game marveling at Hart being EVERYWHERE. He's a glue guy but also fills up the stat sheet all over the place. He's become one of my favorite players in the league.
It sucks the Knicks are kind of likable
Quote from: JWags85 on May 07, 2024, 09:47:46 AM
Beyond the friendship with Brunson, I said from the minute they made that trade that he was a PERFECT fit for a Thibs team like that. I went to a Knicks game with my BIL (a Knicks die hard) shortly after the trade and we spent a good chunk of the game marveling at Hart being EVERYWHERE. He's a glue guy but also fills up the stat sheet all over the place. He's become one of my favorite players in the league.
Yup and he's really upped his offense in the playoffs too. Giving them a second efficient scorer to pick up whatever slack Brunson doesn't on his own.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 07, 2024, 10:02:40 AM
It sucks the Knicks are kind of likable
Honestly I'm pulling for them. I know that Knicks fans are...New Yorkers...but they do know and love ball.
And I love the fact that they have that same, organ-based "Defense" cheer from way back in the day.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 07, 2024, 11:49:41 AM
Honestly I'm pulling for them. I know that Knicks fans are...New Yorkers...but they do know and love ball.
And I love the fact that they have that same, organ-based "Defense" cheer from way back in the day.
Also, anyone but Boston
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 07, 2024, 11:49:41 AM
Honestly I'm pulling for them. I know that Knicks fans are...New Yorkers...but they do know and love ball.
And I love the fact that they have that same, organ-based "Defense" cheer from way back in the day.
I have called Knick fans organ-based, before. But I agree, I am rooting for the Knicks to make it out of the East.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 07, 2024, 11:49:41 AM
Honestly I'm pulling for them. I know that Knicks fans are...New Yorkers...but they do know and love ball.
And I love the fact that they have that same, organ-based "Defense" cheer from way back in the day.
Absolutely and they consistently draw. Sure its Manhattan and there are tourists, but its nearly always a packed engaged crowd. Ive went to 1-2 Knicks games a year at MSG since 2021 and its made no difference if they are awful or really fun like this year, its still a great atmosphere.
I was a huge Knicks fan growing up - learned to love basketball watching Walt Frazier, Willis Reed, Dave DeBusschere, etc. When somebody today praises a team for playing unselfishly, moving the ball, and locking down on defense, I think back to those Knicks teams.
I haven't been a fan for a long time, but this Knicks team is fun to watch. Lots of good stories, led by the 2nd-round draft pick who I KNEW would be a very good NBA player but has exceeded my expectations. Hell, Brunson has probably exceeded even his own expectations!
BTW, I loved Obi Toppin's between the leg dunk. I know "fundamentals" guys hate it, but it was fun.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 07, 2024, 01:50:55 PM
BTW, I loved Obi Toppin's between the leg dunk. I know "fundamentals" guys hate it, but it was fun.
Same. It was awesome. If you do that in a playoff game you better make it. And he did, so it was fun
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 07, 2024, 01:50:55 PM
BTW, I loved Obi Toppin's between the leg dunk. I know "fundamentals" guys hate it, but it was fun.
Doing it against the Knicks back at MSG likely had no small part in the decision to do it. And frankly, I bet a lot of Knicks fans loved it given the result of the game and their affinity for him when he was a Knick.
I believe I mentioned it before, but sitting semi-near the Knicks bench at a game last winter, watching Toppin interact with not only fans around him, but more than a dozen assorted Knicks staffers and MSG employees, was one of the more wholesome NBA sights I'd seen in awhile. Time for everyone, unbridled enthusiasm and pleasantries, and the kind of person who fully realizes that little things can really matter. Very happy to see him having a resurgent sort of year in Indy.
Quote from: JWags85 on May 07, 2024, 09:47:46 AM
Beyond the friendship with Brunson, I said from the minute they made that trade that he was a PERFECT fit for a Thibs team like that. I went to a Knicks game with my BIL (a Knicks die hard) shortly after the trade and we spent a good chunk of the game marveling at Hart being EVERYWHERE. He's a glue guy but also fills up the stat sheet all over the place. He's become one of my favorite players in the league.
Josh Hart has been incredible during the playoffs. He gets every loose ball, rebounds like he's 6'10, and has scored as well including timely buckets.
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on May 04, 2024, 08:47:37 PM
Anthony Edwards is such a joy to watch.
He is awesome. Hard to believe his college team was 5-13 and finished 13th in the SEC his only year in college.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 07, 2024, 07:27:50 PM
He is awesome. Hard to believe his college team was 5-13 and finished 13th in the SEC his only year in college.
I think the craziest thing is there was questions about his motor and if he even loved basketball at one point.
Think hes answered those
Murray fined 100K but not suspended. Translation: We want to make sure Denver has a chance in this series.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 07, 2024, 08:08:08 PM
Murray fined 100K but not suspended. Translation: We want to make sure Denver has a chance in this series.
Nah. Edwards wouldn't have been suspended if he did the same thing. They just want the best players on the floor and will avoid suspensions if it's possible.
Same reason Portis avoided a suspension after throwing a punch against Indiana.
Quote from: BM1090 on May 07, 2024, 08:15:06 PM
Nah. Edwards wouldn't have been suspended if he did the same thing. They just want the best players on the floor and will avoid suspensions if it's possible.
Same reason Portis avoided a suspension after throwing a punch against Indiana.
I'm saying this as someone who likes Murray, Jokic, and Denver a lot. What would have happened if someone broke an ankle on that heat pack? And he threw a towel after that as well. 100K is on the super large scale for fines. He also didn't apologize as far as I know. What he did was ridiculous and warranted a 1 game suspension imo.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 07, 2024, 08:58:08 PM
I'm saying this as someone who likes Murray, Jokic, and Denver a lot. What would have happened if someone broke an ankle on that heat pack? And he threw a towel after that as well. 100K is on the super large scale for fines. He also didn't apologize as far as I know. What he did was ridiculous and warranted a 1 game suspension imo.
I don't disagree at all. I think he should have been suspended.
I just disagree with the stance that the league was trying to help Denver by choosing not to suspend him.
Quote from: BM1090 on May 07, 2024, 09:50:08 PM
I don't disagree at all. I think he should have been suspended.
I just disagree with the stance that the league was trying to help Denver by choosing not to suspend him.
Okay. Perhaps the reason is as you stated. It certainly makes G3 more interesting.
Doncic can barely move out there.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 07, 2024, 10:02:40 AM
It sucks the Knicks are kind of likable
Wait until you meet their fans!
Quote from: Hards Alumni on May 08, 2024, 08:14:14 AM
Wait until you meet their fans!
If I can handle Marquette fans, I'm sure I could handle Knicks fans
54 years ago today, Willis Reed limped onto the MSG court and inspired the Knicks to a Game 7 Finals victory over Wilt, West, Elgin and the Lakers.
A couple of things about that:
++ Reed made the first two baskets of the game to thunderous ovations but didn't score another point. It actually was Walt Frazier who carried the Knicks - 36 points, 19 assists, 7 rebounds.
++ Yes, the NBA Finals wrapped up on May 8. This season, the second round of the NBA playoffs have just started.
They have only added one additional round to the playoffs since then. The major differences are that they used to start the season earlier, and the season was more "compact." (Less off days.)
I mean, look how many back to back games the Knicks had that year.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/1973_games.html
This year, NBA teams averaged 14 back to back games. I counted 14 on that Knicks schedule by the end of 1972.
Yeah, once upon a time I think they played back-to-back-to-backs.
They moved through the season, and the playoffs. They didn't have to accommodate TV.
Not saying it was "better," just different.
It does make me appreciate even more that Wilt had seasons in which he played every minute - including at least 1 in which he averaged more than 48 minutes (due to OT games).
What happened to Brunson?
"Right sore fight" for Brunson is hilarious from the Knicks.
He clearly hurt his wrist.
Indiana is self destructimg.
Josh Hart rebound watch might be my new favorite hobby
McConnell has a lot of game and plays his ass off.
ESPN rated Brunson the 15th best player in the playoffs. LOL.
The Knicks have a tremendous amount of grit. They honestly have no business winning this game or G1. Especially with their injuries. This amplifies how much of a disaster the Bucks were.
ummmm it wasnt a double dribble
But how do you just erase a call???
Crazy that Carlile sat McConnell from the 7:30 mark when it was a 2pt game. They probably still lose but that was seriously dumb.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 08, 2024, 09:27:41 PM
ummmm it wasnt a double dribble
But how do you just erase a call???
No idea.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40111250/pacers-file-complaint-78-calls-nba-source-says
So the Pacers think there were 49 questionable calls during a 48 minute basketball game, and are now implying that part of the reason is that they are a "small market" team.
Maybe Coach Rick should spend more time coaching defense.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 09, 2024, 08:51:27 AM
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40111250/pacers-file-complaint-78-calls-nba-source-says
So the Pacers think there were 49 questionable calls during a 48 minute basketball game, and are now implying that part of the reason is that they are a "small market" team.
Maybe Coach Rick should spend more time coaching defense.
Yeah, pulling for the Knicks
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 09, 2024, 08:51:27 AM
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40111250/pacers-file-complaint-78-calls-nba-source-says
So the Pacers think there were 49 questionable calls during a 48 minute basketball game, and are now implying that part of the reason is that they are a "small market" team.
Maybe Coach Rick should spend more time coaching defense.
Or just leave TJ McConnell in the game when he's clearly controlling the game
So, Charles Lee, former neighbor in The Quon, named Hornets HC. Good on him, hey?
I really hope that TNT is able to hold onto the NBA contract because stuff like this will never, ever be re-created.
https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1788403467536441568
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 09, 2024, 10:06:28 AM
I really hope that TNT is able to hold onto the NBA contract because stuff like this will never, ever be re-created.
https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1788403467536441568
His vendetta and rants against Galveston last week were Emmy worthy. Early Sportscenter is certainly up there, but in terms of consistent humor and entertainment, Inside the NBA is, for me, the best sports studio show of all time. It was great for a decade already and then, when Shaq joined, it went into the stratosphere.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 09, 2024, 09:58:13 AM
So, Charles Lee, former neighbor in The Quon, named Hornets HC. Good on him, hey?
Hope he's an improvement. Hard not to be, but you still need players. Here's a little from The Athletic:
Lee, 39, spent this season on the Celtics' coaching staff after a decade on Mike Budenholzer's staffs with the Milwaukee Bucks and Atlanta Hawks.
The hire is the latest in an organization-wide transformation over the last year. The franchise got new owners last summer when Rick Schnall and Gabe Plotkin bought the team from Michael Jordan. The Hornets hired Jeff Peterson to head basketball operations in February, and he has slowly filled out his front office.
Lee marks Peterson's biggest decision yet. The two were together in the Hawks organization roughly a decade ago, where Lee was an assistant on Budenholzer's staff, Peterson was a rising executive, and Schnall was a minority owner.
Lee is a Budenholzer disciple but spent this season on the bench in Boston as the Celtics ran up the best record in the NBA.
Lee spent five seasons in Milwaukee before his move to Boston, winning a championship with the Bucks in 2021. ... Lee, who has always been great at connecting with players because of his engaging personality, will need to find a way to do the same thing with Ball, the Hornets' star.
On top of what he learned in Milwaukee, Lee surely picked up some new skills for empowering players as the Celtics have one of the league's most talented roster. ... Lee has been instrumental in Boston this season as coach Joe Mazzulla's top assistant. He is the primary consultant throughout the game on strategic decisions and is generally the other coach you will see on his feet working the sideline. He has been Jrue Holiday's assigned coach, working with the Celtics' big summer acquisition to find how he fits in with the system on both ends.
suns fire Vogel looking at budenholzer
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 09, 2024, 08:51:27 AM
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40111250/pacers-file-complaint-78-calls-nba-source-says
So the Pacers think there were 49 questionable calls during a 48 minute basketball game, and are now implying that part of the reason is that they are a "small market" team.
Maybe Coach Rick should spend more time coaching defense.
What an asinine take from Carlisle. 79 calls in his conplaint to the NBA? Maybe we can have 5 hr games and unlimited coach challenges? That would be a blast. I understand this is about getting a better whistle for G3 but this was just a horrible take.
Bases chucked and no outs and the Cards don't even try to bunt a run in. Serves them right to not put one run across the plate there.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 09, 2024, 08:09:34 PM
Bases chucked and no outs and the Cards don't even try to bunt a run in. Serves them right to not put one run across the plate there.
I did casually notice that myself
But not sure it impacts the NBA playoffs too much
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 09, 2024, 08:11:50 PM
I did casually notice that myself
But not sure it impacts the NBA playoffs too much
Cavs are up 17 at Boston. About 7:30 left. Lotta ballgame but stealing a win in Boston would be great for the Cavs
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 09, 2024, 08:13:11 PM
Cavs are up 17 at Boston. About 7:30 left. Lotta ballgame but stealing a win in Boston would be great for the Cavs
I think the title runs through the West
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 09, 2024, 08:11:50 PM
I did casually notice that myself
But not sure it impacts the NBA playoffs too much
Lol oops. Clearly wrong thread.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 09, 2024, 08:14:10 PM
I think the title runs through the West
Probably. It's always good when the Celtics lose. They'll still win this series but I do like this Cavs team
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 09, 2024, 08:15:54 PM
Probably. It's always good when the Celtics lose. They'll still win this series but I do like this Cavs team
Boston better hope Porzingas comes back.
Reminded me of G2 of the Heat series.
Quote from: MU82 on May 09, 2024, 10:06:20 PM
Reminded me of G2 of the Heat series.
Yes, but the difference is Mitchell can go bananas and take over games. Tyler Herro is not D. Mitchell. I still expect Boston to win but they need Porzingy.
Man I hope we see OKC/Minny in the WCF. Two really exciting teams with tremendous overall speed.
SGA not getting enough help in the 2H tonight. Rough gameS for Holmgren and Williams. Chet needs to figure out how to play inside more.
The Celtics don't "need" Porzingas. Sure he would be helpful. But there is plenty of talent on the team. I think they rely a little too much on the outside shot, and when it's not falling it looks old a little ugly.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 09, 2024, 10:10:22 PM
Yes, but the difference is Mitchell can go bananas and take over games. Tyler Herro is not D. Mitchell. I still expect Boston to win but they need Porzingy.
All I was saying is that the Cavs went nuts from 3 and the Celtics sucked from 3. Just as in G2 vs the Heat.
I didn't know you were such buddies with "Porzingy." Congrats!
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 09, 2024, 10:10:22 PM
Yes, but the difference is Mitchell can go bananas and take over games. Tyler Herro is not D. Mitchell. I still expect Boston to win but they need Porzingy.
Agree. If the Heat were healthy, they probably give the Celtics more of a series. Celtics are soft and the Heat will punch you in the face and grind you down.
Donovan is capable of winning a series. Not sure they have enough to help for 7 games, though, against a good team.
Doesn't help Boston that Playoff Jrue is back,
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 10, 2024, 07:44:34 AM
Agree. If the Heat were healthy, they probably give the Celtics more of a series. Celtics are soft and the Heat will punch you in the face and grind you down.
Donovan is capable of winning a series. Not sure they have enough to help for 7 games, though, against a good team.
Doesn't help Boston that Playoff Jrue is back,
Holiday has been really bad although Pritchard has played well. Minnesota looks like the most complete team right now, although a lot can change. But if they drop the hammer tonight? They have to feel great about their chances. These other teams seem much more 3-Ball dependent.
The C's only problem is Joe Mazzulla.
Derrick White is a very good defender and you can feel comfortable putting him on anyone's best perimeter player. But Jrue Holiday is an all time great defender, on a completely different level than Derrick White. Mazzulla tries to start White on the best perimeter player (Mitchell) and usually has Jrue on a bigger wing (Max Strus? I mean come on).
I also think White and Holiday are used the opposite way of what they should on offense. Jrue is a better distributor than White, while White is a better shooter. Mazzulla puts Jrue in a corner and he's shot the corner 3 unbelievably well this year, but it's still not getting teams to stick to him to create space for Tatum/Brown to get to the rim. Teams will continue to just leave Jrue open in the corner and make him beat them.
Thibs looks very upset. Perhaps he'll send the NBA a tape of the fouls missed on Brunson.
Give Denver credit. They're playing lights out tonight and taking care of the bal.
Wolves look fantastic tonight
Disappointed with OKC. That said P.J Washington is playing out of his mind.
who does Atlanta take for #1 pick?
I love that Alex sarr, but fellow Frenchman zach risacher 6'8" 19 year old looks tempting as well.
Rob dillingham and reed Shepard are only 6'3" I'd rather have the taller sharp shooter of the 3, but ya can't pass up the big fella.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 12, 2024, 06:27:16 PM
who does Atlanta take for #1 pick?
I love that Alex sarr, but fellow Frenchman zach risacher 6'8" 19 year old looks tempting as well.
Rob dillingham and reed Shepard are only 6'3" I'd rather have the taller sharp shooter of the 3, but ya can't pass up the big fella.
Trade it? This is supposed to be an unusually weak draft 🚀.
The Wolves need to get it together. What's up with biting on every shot fake?
Sweet Jesus. Wrong line-up to start the 2Q.
Bit of a momentum shift to end the half.
OMG. The end of the first half was UNREAL!
Quote from: tower912 on May 12, 2024, 08:05:30 PM
Bit of a momentum shift to end the half.
Incredible shot. How many non NBA guys could hit that in an open gym in 50 tries?
Good coaching move by Malone having Jokic taking the ball full-court vs Golbert. Rudy is getting absolutely shredded.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 12, 2024, 06:27:16 PM
who does Atlanta take for #1 pick?
I love that Alex sarr, but fellow Frenchman zach risacher 6'8" 19 year old looks tempting as well.
Rob dillingham and reed Shepard are only 6'3" I'd rather have the taller sharp shooter of the 3, but ya can't pass up the big fella.
I think he'll be a productive pro cause his shooting will translate, but I can't process Sheppard as a top 5 pick, much less top 3. Feels like a better version of Jimmer Fredette who was way over drafted. He'll also be 20 by the draft so its not like he's an 18 year old freshman.
That Edwards guy is pretty good. It would be nice if he got some help.
I know plenty of players have their heights exaggerated but given the absurdity around Bronny's draft stock, this is particularly amusing...
https://x.com/bleacherreport/status/1790070921966829635?s=46
A 2 guard under 6'2 who can't shoot and had a mediocre freshman year and recent health issues. But sure, def still a 1st round prospect, cause he's an "elite" defender
No Donovan Mitchell tonight for Cleveland. No bueno for the Cavs
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 13, 2024, 05:47:29 PM
No Donovan Mitchell tonight for Cleveland. No bueno for the Cavs
Why is this a competitive game? I can't figure out the Celtics.
What in the world is OKC doing out there? Their half-court offense and defense is abysmal.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 13, 2024, 09:59:18 PM
What in the world is OKC doing out there? Their half-court offense and defense is abysmal.
They're down 8...
Jalen.Williams might want to wake the H up? 2 for 12???? Can't happen.
There we go. Glad he read my post!
Ughhhh. Smh.
SGA didn't get the memo that the mid-range game died. :)
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 13, 2024, 11:17:52 PM
SGA didn't get the memo that the mid-range game died. :)
He's the rare player who can shoot as many mid range jumpers as he wants.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 13, 2024, 11:17:52 PM
SGA didn't get the memo that the mid-range game died. :)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/59b84ca6cf81e006d589e736/560f8d61-ae83-46a5-a1fa-ae557800b61a/1_QPNF5bTVmLNiwpx3gRGKiw.png)
It's dead. That doesn't mean certain players can't utilize it successfully.
If they lose this series, the Mavs will look back sadly on the end of last night's game. Several misses on shots at or near the rim, and horrid FT shooting (including a huge miss by their superstar).
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 14, 2024, 01:24:11 AM
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/59b84ca6cf81e006d589e736/560f8d61-ae83-46a5-a1fa-ae557800b61a/1_QPNF5bTVmLNiwpx3gRGKiw.png)
It's dead. That doesn't mean certain players can't utilize it successfully.
He's proving it doesn't have to be dead if you can actually make that shot. He torched Dallas with his midrange game, while the rest of his team bricked like crazy.
Quote from: MU82 on May 14, 2024, 06:41:46 AM
If they lose this series, the Mavs will look back sadly on the end of last night's game. Several misses on shots at or near the rim, and horrid FT shooting (including a huge miss by their superstar).
OKC won that game with a very poor shooting percentage which has to be pretty rare. I think they said it was their worst of the year. FT's mattered a lot in this particular game. SGA was very poised amidst a total mess of an offense.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 14, 2024, 09:18:04 AM
He's proving it doesn't have to be dead if you can actually make that shot. He torched Dallas with his midrange game, while the rest of his team bricked like crazy.
Yes, a minority of NBA players, the best players in the world, can make mid range shots at a high enough rate that it is worth it for them to take them. That doesn't mean that everyone, especially college players, should follow suit.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 14, 2024, 10:15:27 AM
Yes, a minority of NBA players, the best players in the world, can make mid range shots at a high enough rate that it is worth it for them to take them. That doesn't mean that everyone, especially college players, should follow suit.
Yeah, part of the reason it's inefficient is that on the whole, there aren't many players that can hit that type of shot at a rate that it makes sense.
Quote from: cheebs09 on May 14, 2024, 11:19:27 AM
Yeah, part of the reason it's inefficient is that on the whole, there aren't many players that can hit that type of shot at a rate that it makes sense.
Even orcas, some of the dumbest things on this planet, know the midrange is dead
Bleacher Report story that the Lakers top HC candidates include Sam Cassell and JJ Redick who was zero coaching experience at any level.
Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on May 14, 2024, 11:49:41 AM
Bleacher Report story that the Lakers top HC candidates include Sam Cassell and JJ Redick who was zero coaching experience at any level.
Sam has been up for other jobs and has paid his dues as an assistant since retiring in '09.
I'd take him in a heartbeat over Redick. LA's problem isn't the coach. It's the roster
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 14, 2024, 11:35:51 AM
Even orcas, some of the dumbest things on this planet, know the midrange is dead
Orcas are highly, highly, intelligent with more complex brain structures than humans. Stop attacking our prime time marine mammals.
I also never said everyone should shoot mid-range shots. But saying it's "dead" is factually incorrect. I'll take SGA on my team any day.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 14, 2024, 01:27:14 PM
Orcas are highly, highly, intelligent with more complex brain structures than humans. Stop attacking our prime time marine mammals.
I also never said everyone should shoot mid-range shots. But saying it's "dead" is factually incorrect. I'll take SGA on my team any day.
SGA is far more successful than an orca
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 14, 2024, 01:27:14 PM
I also never said everyone should shoot mid-range shots. But saying it's "dead" is factually incorrect. I'll take SGA on my team any day.
The mid-range is definitely not dead. It is the heart of the Bulls' massively successful offense. :o
I bet the Bulls manage to draft an orca next month.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 14, 2024, 01:32:37 PM
SGA is far more successful than an orca
I'd like to see an orca dunk a basketball.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 14, 2024, 02:02:26 PM
I bet the Bulls manage to draft an orca next month.
Strategic change from bringing in dinosaurs? Their president did promise a shake up. ::)
Sounds like NBC beat out TNT for NBA broadcasting rights. Might be the end of the greatest sports television show out there.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 14, 2024, 02:51:28 PM
Sounds like NBC beat out TNT for NBA broadcasting rights. Might be the end of the greatest sports television show out there.
Go out on top. Ernie isn't leaving TNT. Shaq and Barkley will have their pick of jobs, I'd suspect. Wonder if Kenny just decides that's enough.
Brian Anderson will have to make a choice, too, if he wants to keep calling the NBA
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 14, 2024, 03:00:47 PM
Go out on top. Ernie isn't leaving TNT. Shaq and Barkley will have their pick of jobs, I'd suspect. Wonder if Kenny just decides that's enough.
Brian Anderson will have to make a choice, too, if he wants to keep calling the NBA
It feels like Barkley has always had retirement rumors.
I know BA does a lot with TBS. Would he be able to do NBC for hoops and still do TBS/TNT for others?
Quote from: cheebs09 on May 14, 2024, 03:02:56 PM
It feels like Barkley has always had retirement rumors.
I know BA does a lot with TBS. Would he be able to do NBC for hoops and still do TBS/TNT for others?
Not sure what his status is with all that he has his fingers in. Big shakeups coming anyway with the wild, Wild West of conference TV deals in college sports moving here, there and everywhere
Shaq and Barkley are joining LIV Golf
Man, if this is true, TNT's parent company really screwed this up.
https://awfulannouncing.com/nba/tnt-matching-rights-amazon-nbc.html
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 14, 2024, 03:22:45 PM
Man, if this is true, TNT's parent company really screwed this up.
https://awfulannouncing.com/nba/tnt-matching-rights-amazon-nbc.html
Mike Aresco special
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 14, 2024, 03:22:45 PM
Man, if this is true, TNT's parent company really screwed this up.
https://awfulannouncing.com/nba/tnt-matching-rights-amazon-nbc.html
wtf is with the pop-ups on that site?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 14, 2024, 12:22:54 PM
Sam has been up for other jobs and has paid his dues as an assistant since retiring in '09.
I'd take him in a heartbeat over Redick. LA's problem isn't the coach. It's the roster
Pretty sure if da Lakers consult wit #34, dale crap out. His record in pickin' coaches sucks, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 14, 2024, 05:09:37 PM
Pretty sure if da Lakers consult wit #34, dale crap out. His record in pickin' coaches sucks, aina?
Why would they consult with Giannis? Lebron and AD will be the ones part of the process.
Luckily for the Lakers, Doc Rivers isn't an option
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 14, 2024, 01:27:14 PM
Orcas are highly, highly, intelligent with more complex brain structures than humans. Stop attacking our prime time marine mammals.
I also never said everyone should shoot mid-range shots. But saying it's "dead" is factually incorrect. I'll take SGA on my team any day.
I'm sorry. It's dead for 99.5% of basketball players. Should have been more specific.
Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on May 14, 2024, 04:02:00 PM
wtf is with the pop-ups on that site?
Based on your own search history eh?
Thibodau looks like a constipated East German gymnastics coach.
Brunson is shredding this team like a ginsu knife.
It would be awesome to be able to think Kolek reminded me of Brunson again. Jalen is on some kind of heater right now.
Quote from: tower912 on May 14, 2024, 09:18:35 PM
It would be awesome to be able to think Kolek reminded me of Brunson again. Jalen is on some kind of heater right now.
Brunson didn't come into the league schooling fools off the bounce. Somehow he developed this skill to an elite level.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 14, 2024, 07:55:05 PM
I'm sorry. It's dead for 99.5% of basketball players. Should have been more specific.
This is simply inaccurate. It's not about taking a ton of mid-range shots, it about having it in your arsenal. Why? Because it's an open look one can consistently get. SGA has it, Murray, Brunson, ANT, Middleton, Lebron, and plenty of other guys. Not having it at all in your repertoire is just foolish.
Golbert not having a lot of success guarding Jokic.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 14, 2024, 09:31:20 PM
This is simply inaccurate. It's not about taking a ton of mid-range shots, it about having it in your arsenal. Why? Because it's an open look one can consistently get. SGA has it, Murray, Brunson, ANT, Middleton, Lebron, and plenty of other guys. Not having it at all in your repertoire is just foolish.
Im surprised you think Shaka is a fool
Gobert is offensively inept. Scared when he gets the ball. And cant guard Jokic.
They might as well just throw in Garza
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 14, 2024, 10:37:41 PM
Im surprised you think Shaka is a fool
I didn't say that. I was talking about the NBA game but do think there's no reason to never take a mid-ramge J if it's wide open. Assuming you are capable. The guys I listed all take some of those shots and it elevates their game.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 14, 2024, 10:39:27 PM
Gobert is offensively inept. Scared when he gets the ball. And cant guard Jokic.
They might as well just throw in Garza
Stick with Reid?
Jokic not only has superb footwork, he knows how to use his weight to dislodge his defender. He's deceptively quick for his size. He's listed at 284 lbs but I'm guessing he's closer to 305 lbs. He's a very large individual.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 14, 2024, 10:53:12 PM
Stick with Reid?
Had 3 fouls
That first half was every wolves player panic driving for wild shots, wild offensive fouls and wild turn overs.
Kinda wild they are only down 6 at half and Ant was poor
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 14, 2024, 11:04:10 PM
Had 3 fouls
That first half was every wolves player panic driving for wild shots, wild offensive fouls and wild turn overs.
Kinda wild they are only down 6 at half and Ant was poor
Both he and Murray are struggling. I guess Finch moved Rudy to the help defender role.
Wow. That was freaking sick by da Joker.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 14, 2024, 10:50:41 PM
I didn't say that. I was talking about the NBA game but do think there's no reason to never take a mid-ramge J if it's wide open. Assuming you are capable. The guys I listed all take some of those shots and it elevates their game.
If you're talking just the NBA then my 99.5% was inaccurate. I was talking NBA, college, international, g-league, etc. Even limiting it to the NBA (the best players in the world), it's still a minority of players who can use the mid-range effectively. Most would be better driving to the hoop or working to get a better shot. A select few are good enough in the mid-range that an open long two may as well be a layup.
There's a reason those shots are wide open.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 14, 2024, 10:50:41 PM
I didn't say that. I was talking about the NBA game but do think there's no reason to never take a mid-ramge J if it's wide open. Assuming you are capable. The guys I listed all take some of those shots and it elevates their game.
Lebron's shot map from Rookie year compared to 2023
(https://media.gq.com/photos/663b8a4fd4f152c66a6d760f/master/w_1600,c_limit/The%20Game%20Has%20Changed.PNG)
LeBron's shot chart looks like it is giving the mid-range jumper the middle finger.
He still takes some. SGA was 12/16 last game.
I'm not sure how you guard Jokic.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 15, 2024, 05:40:40 AM
He still takes some. SGA was 12/16 last game.
I'm not sure how you guard Jokic.
Many players still take "some". That's what the defense is giving them, since it's the least effective shot. I would think you would understand that.
Quote from: lawdog77 on May 15, 2024, 05:59:38 AM
Many players still take "some". That's what the defense is giving them, since it's the least effective shot. I would think you would understand that.
But if you can knock that shot down it helps. That's all I'm saying LD.
Is Jokic the most skilled offensive player ever?
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 15, 2024, 06:58:14 AM
Is Jokic the most skilled offensive player ever?
No
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 15, 2024, 07:00:28 AM
No
He doesn't have the blow by speed but other than that can do everything. He's sort of a combo of a heavier Hakeem and Nash. Bro was ridiculous last night.
Great player. 3 time MVP, has a ring. Arrived with little fanfare. Has been all about steady improvement and thinking the game. 7 footer initiating offense from the high post. Denver has been smart enough to build around him and not just run the same sets as everyone else.
I don't know where he fits in the pantheon and I don't care. I enjoy watching him now. Just like I enjoy watching Brunson in the playoffs for a ridiculously shorthanded Knicks team.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 15, 2024, 05:40:40 AM
He still takes some. SGA was 12/16 last game.
From mid-range? No. He was 9/14 (still very good). But even there you can tell the influence of the death of mid-range. SGA only took two mid-range shots longer than 17 feet (and missed both). 7 of his makes were within 15 feet (FT length) and 4 of them were within 12 feet. It's still about getting as close to the basket as you can (unless you're shooting a 3).
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on May 14, 2024, 07:56:37 PM
Based on your own search history eh?
It was multiple Norton AV pop-up warnings except we don't run that on our system. No Symantec search history etc.
Boston moves on.
Terrible start for Minny. Wake the F up or the result will be death.
Somebody has to lose.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 16, 2024, 07:49:36 PM
Terrible start for Minny. Wake the F up or the result will be death.
Would you say they are awake?
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 16, 2024, 07:49:36 PM
Terrible start for Minny. Wake the F up or the result will be death.
Greatest overreaction in scoop history.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 16, 2024, 08:06:03 PM
Greatest overreaction in scoop history.
IOW pretty run of the mill for Muggs
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 16, 2024, 08:07:57 PM
IOW pretty run of the mill for Muggs
I dunno, the death call was pretty extreme less than 3 minutes into the game being down only 7
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 16, 2024, 08:06:03 PM
Greatest overreaction in scoop history.
They woke up because they read my post!
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 16, 2024, 08:10:19 PM
I dunno, the death call was pretty extreme less than 3 minutes into the game being down only 7
Mugs is sentencing NBA players to death for being down 9-2. But god forbid someone punishes a fat worthless orca for destroying vessels.
Hey, down 7 with only 45 minutes left in an NBA game = almost insurmountable deficit.
Let's go now! Drop the hammer!
Uh-oh. Hopefully Edwards is okay.
Wolves are +43 since Mugs threatened them with execution 3.5 minutes into the game
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 16, 2024, 09:38:41 PM
Wolves are +43 since Mugs threatened them with execution 3.5 minutes into the game
My plan worked perfectly. I never threatened them at all.
+54 now. This is insane
Solid close to the half for OKC.
What a way to end a game and a series. Congratulations to Dallas. OMax moves on.
Quote from: tower912 on May 18, 2024, 09:41:04 PM
What a way to end a game and a series. Congratulations to Dallas. OMax moves on.
Terrible challenge there. Cost OKC a time out and the ability to advance the ball to half-court.
If he wins the challenge, they win the game.
Quote from: tower912 on May 18, 2024, 09:43:38 PM
If he wins the challenge, they win the game.
But it was a clear foul. Just a bad decision. Very upsetting but OKC will be back.
Have to agree with Muggs here. It was an obvious foul. You have that time-out, you advance the ball and you have a legit chance to tie or win. You give up the time-out for a challenge that had no chance to succeed, and you almost surely lose.
Quote from: MU82 on May 18, 2024, 09:49:19 PM
Have to agree with Muggs here. It was an obvious foul. You have that time-out, you advance the ball and you have a legit chance to tie or win. You give up the time-out for a challenge that had no chance to succeed, and you almost surely lose.
Yep
Quote from: MU82 on May 18, 2024, 09:49:19 PM
Have to agree with Muggs here. It was an obvious foul. You have that time-out, you advance the ball and you have a legit chance to tie or win. You give up the time-out for a challenge that had no chance to succeed, and you almost surely lose.
Even if you think it's borderline or 50/50 you can't challenge. The only way you challenge that one is if you're 100% sure there is no foul. They would have had plenty of time to draw something up from half-court.
As I side note, I'm not a fan of the challenge system and how it's administered. My solution would be to only allow it the final 3 mins, with the understanding that refs will miss some calls during the course of the game. I wouldn't have a limit to the challenges under 3 mins, and if it's a successful challenge, I wouldn't take away a time-out.
Quote from: MU82 on May 18, 2024, 09:49:19 PM
Have to agree with Muggs here. It was an obvious foul. You have that time-out, you advance the ball and you have a legit chance to tie or win. You give up the time-out for a challenge that had no chance to succeed, and you almost surely lose.
If you get the ball first, you are allowed to hit the arm on the follow through. That happened earlier in the series. Apparently that didn't apply here, as the ball had not been released yet. We found that out when the announcers went to talk to their New York ref, but the actual ref rudely interrupted and made the call over the microphone.
It wasn't , to me, a 100% a foul until I saw the replay. But the way Tony Brothers had it in for Luka, I thought the cal would be overturned
It wasn't about hitting the ball first. Its about dislodging the ball from the shooter. If he had lost control of the ball, the subsequent contact on the arm would have been ignored. But since the ball wasn't dislodged, and was still in the act of shooting, the foul was called with the contact to the arm.
It was an obvious foul and the OKC coach should never have called for a review.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 19, 2024, 06:36:29 AM
It wasn't about hitting the ball first. Its about dislodging the ball from the shooter. If he had lost control of the ball, the subsequent contact on the arm would have been ignored. But since the ball wasn't dislodged, and was still in the act of shooting, the foul was called with the contact to the arm.
It was an obvious foul and the OKC coach should never have called for a review.
We are saying the same thing. Generraly when you block a shot, and hit the ball first. it dislodges.
Are Scoopers more impressed by Ant or SGA? I think OKC blew this series, but mainly because of inexperience. There were big stretches is certain games where they took bad shots and kicked the ball away. They could also use an additional big. P.J. Washington really was the difference in this series which I never imagined would be the case.
SGA isn't as explosive as Edwards but has a cool, calm, and unflappabe quality to his game. I think he's more consistent but not as good a defender. Personally, if I was coaching last night, I would have liked to see SGA have the ball on every possession in the 4Q. He can pretty much get to his spots at will as well as shred the doubles or what have you. Tremendous footwork and the guy never looks rushed.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 19, 2024, 07:49:54 AM
Are Scoopers more impressed by Ant or SGA? I think OKC blew this series, but mainly because of inexperience. There were big stretches is certain games where they took bad shots and kicked the ball away. They could also use an additional big. P.J. Washington really was the difference in this series which I never imagined would be the case.
SGA isn't as explosive as Edwards but has a cool, calm, and unflappabe quality to his game. I think he's more consistent but not as good a defender. Personally, if I was coaching last night, I would have liked to see SGA have the ball on every possession in the 4Q. He can pretty much get to his spots at will as well as shred the doubles or what have you. Tremendous footwork and the guy never looks rushed.
They stink
So, hero ball. They are talented young players. Hopefully, they can have showdowns that matter in the future.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 19, 2024, 07:49:54 AM
Are Scoopers more impressed by Ant or SGA? I think OKC blew this series, but mainly because of inexperience. There were big stretches is certain games where they took bad shots and kicked the ball away. They could also use an additional big. P.J. Washington really was the difference in this series which I never imagined would be the case.
SGA isn't as explosive as Edwards but has a cool, calm, and unflappabe quality to his game. I think he's more consistent but not as good a defender. Personally, if I was coaching last night, I would have liked to see SGA have the ball on every possession in the 4Q. He can pretty much get to his spots at will as well as shred the doubles or what have you. Tremendous footwork and the guy never looks rushed.
They're both great young players. They have completely different games, so I won't compare them. I'd take them both on my team.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 19, 2024, 07:49:54 AM
Are Scoopers more impressed by Ant or SGA? I think OKC blew this series, but mainly because of inexperience. There were big stretches is certain games where they took bad shots and kicked the ball away. They could also use an additional big. P.J. Washington really was the difference in this series which I never imagined would be the case.
SGA isn't as explosive as Edwards but has a cool, calm, and unflappabe quality to his game. I think he's more consistent but not as good a defender. Personally, if I was coaching last night, I would have liked to see SGA have the ball on every possession in the 4Q. He can pretty much get to his spots at will as well as shred the doubles or what have you. Tremendous footwork and the guy never looks rushed.
Wasn't he initiating the offense pretty much every time down?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 19, 2024, 08:16:27 AM
Wasn't he initiating the offense pretty much every time down?
A couple of times he did not and it cost them. Know the pecking order.
Quote from: MU82 on May 19, 2024, 08:15:03 AM
They're both great young players. They have completely different games, so I won't compare them. I'd take them both on my team.
Yes. I really hope Minny shocks the world tonight and Edwards goes off.
Just as OKC wasn't quite ready to "shock the world," I'm feeling that it isn't quite the Timberwolves' turn yet.
As a fan, I'd be fine with either Minnesota or Denver. I really like watching both teams play. I just think Jokic, Murray and the Nuggets will do what's necessary to win tonight.
Quote from: MU82 on May 19, 2024, 10:51:22 AM
Just as OKC wasn't quite ready to "shock the world," I'm feeling that it isn't quite the Timberwolves' turn yet.
As a fan, I'd be fine with either Minnesota or Denver. I really like watching both teams play. I just think Jokic, Murray and the Nuggets will do what's necessary to win tonight.
Ya....that seems most likely.
Doncic kind of annoys me. The constant complaining has more than gotten old. I will be rooting for either Denver or Minny to win WCF and ultimately the chip.
Crazy to see a Tom Thibodeau team wear down in the playoffs.
The expected happened
Championship team showed up.
Up and comers have zero clue on offense.
Gobert and Conley helped steer the development. But wow was that first half a flashing light as to why those two have never won anything.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 19, 2024, 08:09:49 PM
The expected happened
Championship team showed up.
Up and comers have zero clue on offense.
Gobert and Conley helped steer the development. But wow was that first half a flashing light as to why those two have never won anything.
It's been rough but the game isn't over.
What's more worthless to the evolution of our planet
Kyle Anderson or the Manatee
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 19, 2024, 08:37:59 PM
What's more worthless to the evolution of our planet
Kyle Anderson or the Manatee
Your hostility towards manatees is totally inexcusable. They're a wonderful species and have graced our planet for 50 million years.
Maybe that gets Edwatds going.
Edwards clearly fouled on that drive. Then they call a moving screen? Bcrape.
The league has made the call. Nuggets to win.
The call on KAT and no call on edwards are all time bad
Hello!!!
Wow
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 19, 2024, 08:49:10 PM
Your hostility towards manatees is totally inexcusable. They're a wonderful species and have graced our planet for 50 million years.
50 million years ago we were monkeys. No we we've got the internet, AI and space travel.
What have manatees done with their time?
That wasn't a foul. The game should be over.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 19, 2024, 09:22:51 PM
50 million years ago we were monkeys. No we we've got the internet, AI and space travel.
What have manatees done with their time?
The list is long. They're highly influential in protecting a number of our marine species. They're also kind and gentle. Leave them alone and stop disparaging them.
What a win for Minnesota.
Wow ... I didn't see that coming. Good for the Wolves! Fun, talented, hard-working team.
Quote from: MU82 on May 19, 2024, 09:31:54 PM
Wow ... I didn't see that coming. Good for the Wolves! Fun, talented, hard-working team.
Winning with Ant going 6-24 is very impressive.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 19, 2024, 09:34:32 PM
Winning with Ant going 6-24 is very impressive.
Wolves benched Manatee Anderson and thrived
NBA is about to have its 6th different champion in 6 years. In fact, no champ has made it back to the finals the following year since Golden State in 2019.
Why the uptick in parity? Is it good or is it bad? Is there a dynasty among the 4 teams remaining?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 20, 2024, 08:04:05 PM
NBA is about to have its 6th different champion in 6 years. In fact, no champ has made it back to the finals the following year since Golden State in 2019.
Why the uptick in parity? Is it good or is it bad? Is there a dynasty among the 4 teams remaining?
I don't think any champion has made it past the 2nd round since 2019 either.
The supermax is causing some parity. It used to be the true superstars got stupid money. Now guys like Jaylen Brown are a no doubt, no questions asked, pay him as much as he is eligible for for as long as he is eligible to sign. And to win a title, you need 2 players better than Jaylen Brown. So you're going to be paying 3 players way too much money to give yourself a complete roster, especially now with the aprons.
Zach Lowe was talking about the Thunder and how windows close quickly, they're going to have to pay Chet and Williams super maxes. Don't get me wrong, those are nice young players. But it just being a foregone conclusion that guys like that get super max money is wild.
Teams are also losing depth pieces. The Nuggets never were able to replace Bruce Brown off the bench this year. Even Jeff Green had a veteran, defensive role that was valuable last year and nowhere this year. So starters are playing larger minutes.
Celts def should win tonight and the series
But 10.5 seems like a lot of pts
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 21, 2024, 10:49:42 AM
Celts def should win tonight and the series
But 10.5 seems like a lot of pts
I assume the quick turnaround has something to do with it.
I'd expect less points given on Thursday but we'll see.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 21, 2024, 10:49:42 AM
Celts def should win tonight and the series
But 10.5 seems like a lot of pts
The Pacers have struggled against two depleted teams. The C's have been the best team in the NBA all year. I expect a C's sweep. Pacers are frauds.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 21, 2024, 07:28:24 PM
The Pacers have struggled against two depleted teams. The C's have been the best team in the NBA all year. I expect a C's sweep. Pacers are frauds.
Siakim,Turner,and Haliburton can match the Cs top 3, The rest of the team , not so much. All 3 of them have to have their A games to even have a punchers chance.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 21, 2024, 07:28:24 PM
The Pacers have struggled against two depleted teams. The C's have been the best team in the NBA all year. I expect a C's sweep. Pacers are frauds.
I def dont think they have the D to keep up with the Cs.
Quote from: lawdog77 on May 21, 2024, 07:36:15 PM
Siakim,Turner,and Haliburton can match the Cs top 3, The rest of the team , not so much. All 3 of them have to have their A games to even have a punchers chance.
I actually think the Pacers 6-10 are significantly better than Boston's. At least until Porzingis gets back. Can't see Sam or Kornet having much impact at all in this series, at least while games are competitive.
I'm a bit lower on Indiana's top 5 than you.
Quote from: BM1090 on May 21, 2024, 07:50:54 PM
I actually think the Pacers 6-10 are significantly better than Boston's. At least until Porzingis gets back. Can't see Sam or Kornet having much impact at all in this series, at least while games are competitive.
I'm a bit lower on Indiana's top 5 than you.
Im not a big nemhard or nesmith fan.Toppin is.hot.and. cold.
Celts D got a little used to playing bad injury depleted offenses.
Pacers are carving em up
Yeah I kind of forgot Zinger isn't playing. If he's out the Pacers probably take 2 off of the C's.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 21, 2024, 08:16:29 PM
Celts D got a little used to playing bad injury depleted offenses.
Pacers are carving em up
They have no answer for Turner. My concern is Indiana guards like ghosts for major stretches.
Carlisle should be furious. How in the world was that not a travel by Brown?
Pacers cant guard them enough to keep up though. Talent gap
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 21, 2024, 08:44:39 PM
Pacers cant guard them enough to keep up though. Talent gap
Boston 21-2 in FTA"s isn't helping Imdy's cause.
Inexplicable line-up from Carlisle to begin the 4Q.
What? Didn't see a foul on Siakam there.
That's fking bshite.
I'm genuinely surprised that Tatum and brown have made it so far this year without disappearing for an entire series.
Boston doesnt quite have the D as advertised
Slam the door!!
You have gotta be shiiiiiting me! Grabbing his jersey.
This is outrageous.
This is an unmitigated disaster as muggs would say
Complete meltdown by Indiana.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 21, 2024, 09:37:43 PM
This is an unmitigated disaster as muggs would say
I agree Indiana should have fouled after that ridiculous call but this is a disgrace. Two absolutely inexcusable calls.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on May 21, 2024, 09:38:32 PM
Complete meltdown by Indiana.
Combined with absurd officiating.
But you cannot lose a game up 3, with the ball, under 9 secs to go.
Haliburton last minute of regulation:
-Terrible step back fade away 3, with 15 left on shot clock
-Dribbles ball off his leg, leads to Pacer turnover
-Barely tries to get open on side inbounds pass
-Whatever that last terrible possession was
This will be a quick series. Pacers lost their opportunity.
Hailburton
Your table among the greats...........aint ready.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 21, 2024, 09:51:30 PM
Hailburton
Your table among the greats...........aint ready.
Carlisle also deserves some blame.
Pacers fans should be physically ill
That was their chance to make it a series early. Meltdown.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 21, 2024, 09:56:00 PM
Pacers fans should be physically ill
That was their chance to make it a series early. Meltdown.
I thought that rebound foul on Siakam (that was reviewed) changed everything. But your point is well taken. You can't lose a game like that. Unmitigated disaster is accurate.
Is it an unmitigated disaster for Celtics fans? What if you don't have a rooting interest and don't bet? It was an exciting game.
Quote from: tower912 on May 22, 2024, 05:28:47 AM
Is it an unmitigated disaster for Celtics fans? What if you don't have a rooting interest and don't bet? It was an exciting game.
I am rooting for Indians. It was a cataclysmic disaster to throw away a game like that Tower. Can't happen. Carlisle does some dumb things btw.
Indiana went down 1-0 to the Bucks. 2-0 to the Knicks.
I know that was a brutal ending, and that the Celtics may win the series, but there is a long way to go.
If Halliburton doesn't lose concentration and kick the ball out of bounds late in regulation, Indiana wins that game. That he did the exact same thing late in OT was stunning.
Plenty of things happened that had nothing to do with Carlisle, the refs, etc, to cost the Pacers the game.
When your best player effs up royally doing the simplest of tasks (simple for an NBA All-Star, anyway), that's how you lose.
Carlisle is a very good coach. Let's not get silly here.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 22, 2024, 08:41:19 AM
Carlisle is a very good coach. Let's not get silly here.
He definitely should have fouled that possession imo. I hope you're right but I think Indy is in severe trouble. Tatum did not play particularly well yesterday. The Pacers are an explosive offensive team but they can't really guard and can kick tbe ball away. Not being able to in bound the ball, up 3, with 8.5 secs left, just cannot happen. It's Wojoesque regardless of the fact that Brown was pulling on a jersey.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 22, 2024, 08:46:40 AM
He definitely should have fouled that possession imo. I hope you're right but I think Indy is in severe trouble. Tatum did not play particularly well yesterday. The Pacers are an explosive offensive team but they can't really guard and can kick tbe ball away. Not being able to in bound the ball, up 3, with 8.5 secs left, just cannot happen. It's Wojoesque regardless of the fact that Brown was pulling on a jersey.
I don't watch Boston religiously, but probably do 10-15 times per year. That is always how Tatum plays when I see him. Talented shot maker, good defender, maddening shot selection. Sometimes the shots go in. He might shoot better, but I don't think he'll play better. That's his game.
Quote from: BM1090 on May 22, 2024, 11:17:49 AM
I don't watch Boston religiously, but probably do 10-15 times per year. That is always how Tatum plays when I see him. Talented shot maker, good defender, maddening shot selection. Sometimes the shots go in. He might shoot better, but I don't think he'll play better. That's his game.
I feel like 90% of their end of clock situations is a Tatum iso, and not a particularly good one. Ive been with friends who have bets on 1H or quarter totals and its 1-2 points shy, Boston comes down with 20 seconds left and the possession results in an off balance or turnaround jumper from Tatum and they lose their minds. Its part of the reason I don't think very highly of Mazulla. He just has a supremely talented roster, but I rarely see any impressive tactical coaching. And like you said, Tatum really feels like he's plateaued. Insanely talented shot maker but I struggle to ever see him as a top 3-5 guy in the league the way he plays.
If I'm not mistaken, the Pacers had a time out before they inbounded the ball with 8.5 secs. I believe they could have advanced the ball, but does anyone know for sure?
Pairing this Celtics roster with Joe Mazulla is really a questionable decision.
Quote from: JWags85 on May 22, 2024, 12:05:36 PM
I feel like 90% of their end of clock situations is a Tatum iso, and not a particularly good one. Ive been with friends who have bets on 1H or quarter totals and its 1-2 points shy, Boston comes down with 20 seconds left and the possession results in an off balance or turnaround jumper from Tatum and they lose their minds. Its part of the reason I don't think very highly of Mazulla. He just has a supremely talented roster, but I rarely see any impressive tactical coaching. And like you said, Tatum really feels like he's plateaued. Insanely talented shot maker but I struggle to ever see him as a top 3-5 guy in the league the way he plays.
Tatum has the propensity to launch contested 3's in iso ball situations. It's not the percentage play. The guy is 6'10 and has the ability to play consistently closer to the rim. He's strong enough to punish guards on switches inside. It was interesting that until the tying shot and overtime, Brown and Tatum were pretty awful in the 4Q.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 22, 2024, 12:19:57 PM
Tatum has the propensity to launch contested 3's in iso ball situations. It's not the percentage play. The guy is 6'10 and has the ability to play consistently closer to the rim. He's strong enough to punish guards on switches inside. It was interesting that until the tying shot and overtime, Brown and Tatum were pretty awful in the 4Q.
Tatum was even meh early OT too. Was saved on one bad pass. Had the brutal TO to Haliburton and missed a shot or two. Got going late with that And 1.
Just doesn't seem to have that consistent alpha in him. This Celtics roster is stacked enough and the east blows enough, it might still get him a ring tho.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 22, 2024, 12:15:58 PM
If I'm not mistaken, the Pacers had a time out before they inbounded the ball with 8.5 secs. I believe they could have advanced the ball, but does anyone know for sure?
They did, and Carlisle later expressed regret that he didn't use it.
Quote from: JWags85 on May 22, 2024, 12:05:36 PM
I feel like 90% of their end of clock situations is a Tatum iso, and not a particularly good one. Ive been with friends who have bets on 1H or quarter totals and its 1-2 points shy, Boston comes down with 20 seconds left and the possession results in an off balance or turnaround jumper from Tatum and they lose their minds. Its part of the reason I don't think very highly of Mazulla. He just has a supremely talented roster, but I rarely see any impressive tactical coaching. And like you said, Tatum really feels like he's plateaued. Insanely talented shot maker but I struggle to ever see him as a top 3-5 guy in the league the way he plays.
Agree about Mazulla - very unimpressive in-game coach. But he did run a nice play to free Brown up for the tying 3, so credit where it's due. And maybe (I don't know, just thinking out loud), he's good at managing egos and some of the other important stuff that good coaches do well.
Quote from: MU82 on May 22, 2024, 01:42:02 PM
Agree about Mazulla - very unimpressive in-game coach. But he did run a nice play to free Brown up for the tying 3, so credit where it's due.
True, but if Indiana just switches that screen it's not as clean of a catch.
Quote from: MU82 on May 22, 2024, 01:42:02 PM
They did, and Carlisle later expressed regret that he didn't use it.
Agree about Mazulla - very unimpressive in-game coach. But he did run a nice play to free Brown up for the tying 3, so credit where it's due. And maybe (I don't know, just thinking out loud), he's good at managing egos and some of the other important stuff that good coaches do well.
Then that was just a horrible mistake and inexplicable frankly.
Quote from: MUfan12 on May 22, 2024, 02:12:31 PM
True, but if Indiana just switches that screen it's not as clean of a catch.
Sure. But you can say similar about any play that works: "If only the defense ... "
There can't possibly be a worse player in the NBA than Kyle Anderson. Incredible this dude still plays.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 22, 2024, 07:58:36 PM
There can't possibly be a worse player in the NBA than Kyle Anderson. Incredible this dude still plays.
He just hit a shot.
Two shots.
3-3
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 22, 2024, 08:00:10 PM
He just hit a shot.
The Mavs have scored every single possession since hes been in the game
Plus a foul he just committed
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 22, 2024, 08:00:59 PM
3-3
No hes not lol. Did you miss him taking 4 hours to shoot a 3 and miss?
Kyrie, Ant and Luka all showed up.
Luka already sat a while probably due to the knee
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 22, 2024, 08:02:24 PM
No hes not lol. Did you miss him taking 4 hours to shoot a 3 and miss?
I missed one play. The guy is 3-4 with 7pts in 4 mins.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 22, 2024, 08:04:16 PM
I missed one play. The guy is 3-4 with 7pts in 4 mins.
The guy is terrible at basketball and literally called SloMo
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 22, 2024, 08:05:16 PM
The guy is terrible at basketball and literally called SloMo
He's not a speed demon. McDaniels is impressive.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 22, 2024, 08:16:17 PM
He's not a speed demon. McDaniels is impressive.
McDaniels could be an all league player at some point. Hes got the all around skill set with the already elite D and length. Young.
Kyrie is ridiculous when he's feeling it. Not exactly an easy guy to guard.
If the entire series goes like that half the Mavs win this series in 6.
Wolves are banking on making 20+ 3s.
Mavs are driving, scoring and rebounding at will in the paint.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 22, 2024, 08:36:52 PM
If the entire series goes like that half the Mavs win this series in 6.
Wolves are banking on making 20+ 3s.
Mavs are driving, scoring and rebounding at will in the paint.
Wolves do have to rebound for sure.
Golbert seems to be having issues.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 22, 2024, 08:05:16 PM
The guy is terrible at basketball and literally called SloMo
I was STUNNED when he hit that fadeaway. I thought he only hit 10 foot push shots.
I still laugh thinking of talking to my rep from China. He and his son love basketball so we always chat about it when I see him. So in October, we were talking and he mentioned the China national team and "the NBA guy that is now playing for them, Kyle". I had completely forgotten he had gotten Chinese citizenship through his mother to play. Then he proceeded to complain about how excited they were to have an NBA player...but then he was super underwhelming and medicore. They expected him to be like Clarkson when he plays for the Philippines and ball out and instead he played...exactly like the NBA version of him and averaged like 10 pts playing against Angola, Puerto Rico, and South Sudan. When they played Serbia he went 0 for 9.
Quote from: JWags85 on May 22, 2024, 09:03:31 PM
I was STUNNED when he hit that fadeaway. I thought he only hit 10 foot push shots.
I still laugh thinking of talking to my rep from China. He and his son love basketball so we always chat about it when I see him. So in October, we were talking and he mentioned the China national team and "the NBA guy that is now playing for them, Kyle". I had completely forgotten he had gotten Chinese citizenship through his mother to play. Then he proceeded to complain about how excited they were to have an NBA player...but then he was super underwhelming and medicore. They expected him to be like Clarkson when he plays for the Philippines and ball out and instead he played...exactly like the NBA version of him and averaged like 10 pts playing against Angola, Puerto Rico, and South Sudan. When they played Serbia he went 0 for 9.
Ha yeah he would be the ultimate letdown to see on a national team expecting some NBA athlete.
Crazy how slow his shot is.
Good on him for making those push shots. But mavs literally dont guard him and it bogged down the rest of the offense.
Wolves playing pretty poor. Mavs will want to steal this one.
Towns needs to wake up.
Golbert can't make anything but a chippie.
Why has Golbert played the entire 2H?
Sweet Jesus Luka
Yikes. Minnesota is a dumpster 🔥 right now.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 22, 2024, 09:33:54 PM
Why has Golbert played the entire 2H?
Because the Wolves are awful anytime he sits.
Kat is having is classic "oh yeah thats why hes everyones punching bag" game.
Theres a little KAT
Edwards can barely breathe out there.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 22, 2024, 09:39:09 PM
Because the Wolves are awful anytime he sits.
Kat is having is classic "oh yeah thats why hes everyones punching bag" game.
Perhaps he read our comments.
Doncic loves that shot.
Whoa. I thought that wasn't a gtend.
Mavs are having making the wolves their bi tch in the paint.
Any time a wolves player does try to drive he immediately panics.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 22, 2024, 09:53:53 PM
Mavs are having making the wolves their bi tch in the paint.
Any time a wolves player does try to drive he immediately panics.
Yes. Minny lost their poise and essentially their minds.
Edwards ran out of gas
At his post-game press conference Edwards invoked his inner Wojo: He blamed tired legs for his team getting outplayed and outworked by Dallas in the 4th quarter.
Trying to remember if the Original Jordan ever blamed tired legs. Maybe he did.
Will be interesting if Pacers get trucked tonight after the game 1 slip away.
Or if the Boston sports game 2 curse lives on.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 23, 2024, 11:58:39 AM
Will be interesting if Pacers get trucked tonight after the game 1 slip away.
Or if the Boston sports game 2 curse lives on.
I'm concerned with the Pacers in this one. Hopefully I'm dead wrong.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 23, 2024, 07:03:16 PM
I'm concerned with the Pacers in this one. Hopefully I'm dead wrong.
Playing well in Qtr 1 at least
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 23, 2024, 07:36:24 PM
Playing well in Qtr 1 at least
Indians's defense and rebounding is a problem. These guys look like they're taking an afternoon stroll for some reason.
Does Carlisle know he has time-outs left? WTF?
Yeah looks like that Indiana hope last 1 qtr
Big last 2.5 mins from Siakam.
Indy back alive
Quote from: MU82 on May 23, 2024, 09:19:36 AM
At his post-game press conference Edwards invoked his inner Wojo: He blamed tired legs for his team getting outplayed and outworked by Dallas in the 4th quarter.
Trying to remember if the Original Jordan ever blamed tired legs. Maybe he did.
23 did some of his best work sick as a dog.
Doncic is cold-blooded. But that defense and switch didn't make any sense whatsoever.
Anthony Edwards hasn't been bad, but he certainly hasn't been great for about the last 5 games now.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on May 24, 2024, 10:08:49 PM
Anthony Edwards hasn't been bad, but he certainly hasn't been great for about the last 5 games now.
True. But the bigger problem is Dallas' bigs absolutely dominating. 14-16 with dunk, after dunk, after dunk.
Doncic should have been MVP. Jokic was equally deserving, but it should have been Doncic. It was an absolute crime for him to finish 3rd.
Edwards complaining about tired legs. Meanwhile Doncic is torching them with triple doubles with two injured legs.
Quote from: forgetful on May 24, 2024, 11:04:10 PM
Doncic should have been MVP. Jokic was equally deserving, but it should have been Doncic. It was an absolute crime for him to finish 3rd.
Edwards complaining about tired legs. Meanwhile Doncic is torching them with triple doubles with two injured legs.
SGA should've been 2nd no doubt about it.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 24, 2024, 11:06:52 PM
SGA should've been 2nd no doubt about it.
If anyone else put up the numbers and the record that Doncic did this season, they would have been MVP.
There is some strange disrespect for Doncic.
Quote from: forgetful on May 24, 2024, 11:17:27 PM
If anyone else put up the numbers and the record that Doncic did this season, they would have been MVP.
There is some strange disrespect for Doncic.
He complains a lot, which probably doesn't help him. The bottom line is Edwards and Towns haven't been good in this series. But what's most eye-opening is how great Gafford and Lively have been on both ends of the floor. People can talk about analytics all they want, but going 23/29 from 2 isn't the same thing as going like 15/29 from three. Why? Because as far as I know it doesn't measure what happens on those 6 and 14 missed shots. The other team is far more likely to get into transition and score on the other end on a missed 3 vs a missed shot inside the paint.
Lively/Gafford have also been way better defensively than Golbert/Towns. Reid has been really good but none of Minny's bigs or Edwards are getting easy chippies. Lively can also guard the perimeter, Towns and Golbert can't. Minnesota is not winning this series if Dallas gets 10+ uncontested dunks per game. They have to take that away and axe this "drop coverage". If Luke and Kyrie each get 35 a game and are highly efficient you just tip your cap but you simply can't allow two players who only score at the rim to go 23/29.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on May 24, 2024, 10:08:49 PM
Anthony Edwards hasn't been bad, but he certainly hasn't been great for about the last 5 games now.
He's 11-for-33 in this series, 30-89 the last five games. The Timberwolves are 1-4 during the stretch.
Difficult to win when your superduperstar can't hit shots.
But at least Minnesota fans get Chick-fil-A because Irving missed a couple FTs.
Young players hit walls? Defenses in playoffs make adjustments?
Team OMax looking good.
I also think Jason Kidd has grown as a coach and done some good things in these series with match-ups and adjustments. Most importantly he keeps calm when things look like they are disintegrating. That was always a problem for him in Milwaukee.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 25, 2024, 04:52:02 AM
He complains a lot, which probably doesn't help him. The bottom line is Edwards and Towns haven't been good in this series. But what's most eye-opening is how great Gafford and Lively have been on both ends of the floor. People can talk about analytics all they want, but going 23/29 from 2 isn't the same thing as going like 15/29 from three. Why? Because as far as I know it doesn't measure what happens on those 6 and 14 missed shots. The other team is far more likely to get into transition and score on the other end on a missed 3 vs a missed shot inside the paint.
Lively/Gafford have also been way better defensively than Golbert/Towns. Reid has been really good but none of Minny's bigs or Edwards are getting easy chippies. Lively can also guard the perimeter, Towns and Golbert can't. Minnesota is not winning this series if Dallas gets 10+ uncontested dunks per game. They have to take that away and axe this "drop coverage". If Luke and Kyrie each get 35 a game and are highly efficient you just tip your cap but you simply can't allow two players who only score at the rim to go 23/29.
There isn't a player that whines more than Lebron has his entire career, throws actual temper tantrums at times flopping around on the ground. It never hurt his MVP chances.
Jokic is a deserving MVP winner. And it would be splitting hairs between him and Doncic, I think Doncic had a historic season that should have been rewarded and he deserved the MVP. Him being 3rd is just insane.
Quote from: forgetful on May 25, 2024, 10:37:21 AM
There isn't a player that whines more than Lebron has his entire career, throws actual temper tantrums at times flopping around on the ground. It never hurt his MVP chances.
Jokic is a deserving MVP winner. And it would be splitting hairs between him and Doncic, I think Doncic had a historic season that should have been rewarded and he deserved the MVP. Him being 3rd is just insane.
I agree with this analysis.
Quote from: forgetful on May 25, 2024, 10:37:21 AM
There isn't a player that whines more than Lebron has his entire career, throws actual temper tantrums at times flopping around on the ground. It never hurt his MVP chances.
Jokic is a deserving MVP winner. And it would be splitting hairs between him and Doncic, I think Doncic had a historic season that should have been rewarded and he deserved the MVP. Him being 3rd is just insane.
I completely agree about Lebron. That said, I think SGA waa rewarded for his team having the best record in the Western Conference. He also was more efficient than Luka. I understand what you're saying but I'm not sure it's insane that Luka finished 3rd and Jokic was the MVP.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on May 24, 2024, 10:08:49 PM
Anthony Edwards hasn't been bad, but he certainly hasn't been great for about the last 5 games now.
I'm sure he's a little worn down but the D of Dallas has him confused. They guard him hard at the 3 point line and when he drives past his man he finds an agile 7 footer like Lively in his path and solid rotations from the others. Other than occasionally losing Reid their defense has been really good.
Luka is easily the best player in the NBA anyone who says otherwise is simply unhinged.
Craziest thing in that series tho is the #2s
Ant while not playing well, can at least pace Luka in all around play
But Kyrie vs KAT in the "Robin" role might be the biggest mismatch sports have ever seen
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 25, 2024, 11:15:03 AM
Luka is easily the best player in the NBA anyone who says otherwise is simply unhinged.
Craziest thing in that series tho is the #2s
Ant while not playing well, can at least pace Luka in all around play
But Kyrie vs KAT in the "Robin" role might be the biggest mismatch sports have ever seen
KAT has been an abomination. There's a reason he essentially didn't play in the 4Q. 10 for 36 from the field in two games.
Luka is easily the best player in the NBA , but Anthony Edwards can pace him in all around play?
Quote from: forgetful on May 25, 2024, 10:37:21 AM
There isn't a player that whines more than Lebron has his entire career, throws actual temper tantrums at times flopping around on the ground. It never hurt his MVP chances.
I agree about Lebron, but Magic was right there too. I am a Magic fan, so good and great for basketball but it was comical how he argued every single foul. I don't remember him being too bad trying to get a fouls call, but he acted like he never fouled another player, ever.
MJ never had a big issue with fouls being called. ;D
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on May 25, 2024, 11:15:03 AM
Luka is easily the best player in the NBA anyone who says otherwise is simply unhinged.
Craziest thing in that series tho is the #2s
Ant while not playing well, can at least pace Luka in all around play
But Kyrie vs KAT in the "Robin" role might be the biggest mismatch sports have ever seen
I think anyone who says Luka is "easily the best player in the world and anyone who says otherwise is simply outhinged" is outhinged.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 25, 2024, 03:30:50 PM
I think anyone who says Luka is "easily the best player in the world and anyone who says otherwise is simply outhinged" is outhinged.
Agree.
Jokic is #1. Period.
Scramble between a few guys for #2.
Quote from: Jockey on May 25, 2024, 03:54:48 PM
Agree.
Jokic is #1. Period.
Scramble between a few guys for #2.
I don't think the difference between Jokic and Doncic is much at all. I think Doncic surpassed him this year. Doncic has the better all around offensive game and is as good or better of a passer.
Haliburton out tonight. Ughhhhhhhh. What a disaster. I can't stand the Celtics. I wonder why we've seen so many injuries?
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 25, 2024, 06:11:15 PM
Haliburton out tonight. Ughhhhhhhh. What a disaster. I can't stand the Celtics. I wonder why we've seen so many injuries?
Hali is the Pacer's Trae Young.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 25, 2024, 03:30:50 PM
I think anyone who says Luka is "easily the best player in the world and anyone who says otherwise is simply outhinged" is outhinged.
Lets at least get the word correct, for sanity sake.
https://x.com/thehoopherald/status/1794732470119862453?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
He's right.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 26, 2024, 08:17:35 PM
https://x.com/thehoopherald/status/1794732470119862453?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
He's right.
Why? Poor fundamentals in the USA youth leagues?
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 26, 2024, 08:28:16 PM
Why? Poor fundamentals in the USA youth leagues?
Good chunk of the reason. Basketball development in this country is poor. Much too fragmented
International players, elite players, are playing much better competition at younger ages.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 26, 2024, 08:30:35 PM
Good chunk of the reason. Basketball development in this country is poor. Much too fragmented
We need to get our act together.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 26, 2024, 08:34:46 PM
We need to get our act together.
It'll take the NBA being largely foreign players and starting to consistently lose international competitions for that to happen.
I'm not sure there's a movement afoot to change the American approach to basketball developmental models. The answer isn't college basketball. There are few coaches I'd actually trust to develop players into more skilled basketball players.
Dallas just slammed the door.
KAT has been absolutely awful in this series (and the last couple games of the previous one). Maybe he needs JFB to get his a$$ in gear. Wonder what bias thinks of his guy?
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 26, 2024, 09:34:29 PM
Dallas just slammed the door.
I thought this would be Minnesota's chance when Lively went down. If he continues to be out, it changes the look of the series some, but that is one heck of an uphill battle they now have being down 3-0. If they won this to go 2-1, and if Lively stayed out, I would have liked Minnesota to win it.
Hard to win 4-straight against Doncic and Irving.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 26, 2024, 10:17:50 PM
KAT has been absolutely awful in this series (and the last couple games of the previous one). Maybe he needs JFB to get his a$$ in gear. Wonder what bias thinks of his guy?
Somebody didn't watch game 7 of the Mavs/Nuggets game I guess.
Jimmy did so well getting his teammates' a$$e$ in gear this year, I get what you're saying though. A rising tide lifts all boats. He did such a great job of this in MN too. Just the ultimate motivator. On and off the court. He always finds a way to get what he wants.
Quote from: withoutbias on May 26, 2024, 10:58:55 PM
Somebody didn't watch game 7 of the Mavs/Nuggets game I guess.
Jimmy did so well getting his teammates' a$$e$ in gear this year, I get what you're saying though. A rising tide lifts all boats. He did such a great job of this in MN too. Just the ultimate motivator. On and off the court. He always finds a way to get what he wants.
He does always get why he wants even if someone doesn't want to give it
Quote from: withoutbias on May 26, 2024, 10:58:55 PM
Somebody didn't watch game 7 of the Mavs/Nuggets game I guess.
Jimmy did so well getting his teammates' a$$e$ in gear this year, I get what you're saying though. A rising tide lifts all boats. He did such a great job of this in MN too. Just the ultimate motivator. On and off the court. He always finds a way to get what he wants.
4-32 last 5, 0-8 last night from 3. Big guy playing typically small, hanging out on the perimeter and hoping. JFB's record of motivating undermanned teams in the playoffs speaks for itself.
Mavs/Nuggets game 7 never happened so yeah, I missed it.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 27, 2024, 08:23:57 AM
4-32 last 5, 0-8 last night from 3. Big guy playing typically small, hanging out on the perimeter and hoping. JFB's record of motivating undermanned teams in the playoffs speaks for itself.
Mavs/Nuggets game 7 never happened so yeah, I missed it.
4-32 last 5? I don't know what that even means. Last 5 games? He's certainly not that.
Sorry. Check game 7 of Wolves/Nuggets. A game you claimed he was "absolutely awful" in. Even though he was the best player on a court that he was sharing with Anthony Edwards, Nikola Jokic, Jamal Murray, among others.
JFB was clearly right about KAT at the time and has been 100-times the player KAT has been come playoff time.
And KAT is six years younger, so yeah, at some point he will likely be the better overall player. But JFB has been the better player so far...by quite a large margin actually.
Yeah, you can hate Butler and love KAT but still at least try to be objective. There really isn't any statistical measure that would suggest KAT has been the better of the two so far in their careers. But as Sultan says, if Towns stays healthy he certainly has time to change that.
Quote from: withoutbias on May 27, 2024, 08:41:48 AM
4-32 last 5? I don't know what that even means. Last 5 games? He's certainly not that.
Sorry. Check game 7 of Wolves/Nuggets. A game you claimed he was "absolutely awful" in. Even though he was the best player on a court that he was sharing with Anthony Edwards, Nikola Jokic, Jamal Murray, among others.
If you actually watched the games
It's not hard to know he meant 4/32 from 3
But the the board dumbass, gonna be the board dumbass.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on May 27, 2024, 08:52:23 AM
And KAT is six years younger, so yeah, at some point he will likely be the better overall player. But JFB has been the better player so far...by quite a large margin actually.
When the moneys on the line, they're not even on the same planet, and i doubt they ever will be.
Congratulations to the Celtics. Sit back, relax, heal, enjoy the perks of a sweep.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 27, 2024, 08:23:57 AM
4-32 last 5, 0-8 last night from 3. Big guy playing typically small, hanging out on the perimeter and hoping. JFB's record of motivating undermanned teams in the playoffs speaks for itself.
Mavs/Nuggets game 7 never happened so yeah, I missed it.
shooters shoot eyn'a?
someone shoulda told him he ain't a shooter...today...pass the f'ing ball and go get rebounds like good bigs do
Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 28, 2024, 06:11:15 AM
shooters shoot eyn'a?
someone shoulda told him he ain't a shooter...today...pass the f'ing ball and go get rebounds like good bigs do
He shot 41% from 3 in the regular season. It is absolutely part of his game. He's just not getting it done in the playoffs.
:) :)
Quote from: Mutaman on May 28, 2024, 12:02:43 AM
When the moneys on the line, they're not even on the same planet, and i doubt they ever will be.
"ever" is a long time.
For years, many "experts" opined that Michael Jordan would never win the big one.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 28, 2024, 06:11:15 AM
shooters shoot eyn'a?
someone shoulda told him he ain't a shooter...today...pass the f'ing ball and go get rebounds like good bigs do
KAT won the three-point contest at the 2022 All Star Game with the highest final-round score in the competition's history.
He's definitely a shooter.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 28, 2024, 09:35:26 AM
KAT won the three-point contest at the 2022 All Star Game with the highest final-round score in the competition's history.
He's definitely a shooter.
I agree he is a shooter, but in terms of the NBA 3 point contest, the rules are much different now.
I can't see Boston not winning it.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 28, 2024, 08:22:37 PM
I can't see Boston not winning it.
They were super impressive in playing 3/4 very close games against a mid Pacers team without their best player for the last 2.5 games.
You had them pegged as an all time great team the last 2 years too.
If that is the case, then congratulations to Boston. If not, congratulations to the NBA west champs.
Boston could very well win it. They are the favorites. They are good.
But whoever they play in the finals will be a huge challenge compared to the three teams they've faced so far. Nothing they've done thus far has been that impressive.
Luka or Kyrie will probably get hurt and they can win a title with every team they've faced down a star guard.
I hope they lose but I think there's a 88.6% chance Boston wins it. The week plus off will help Dallas but I still don't see it.
If Dallas stays in the +190 range I'll probably jump in. Their shooting is good enough, best defense in the league the past three months, and two of the best closers in the league.
But yeah, Boston is the deserving favorite.
Quote from: MuggsyB on May 28, 2024, 09:05:31 PM
I hope they lose but I think there's a 88.6% chance Boston wins it. The week plus off will help Dallas but I still don't see it.
88.6% is an insane take while also being a completely random % at that.
KAT is far and away the dumbest player the league has seen in decades, maybe ever. The guy just doesnt have the mental capacity.
Rudy might be his biggest challenger is the sad thing for Minny
Gafford just abused Towns. KAT has to play with more power in the paint.
Towns went for 25 points on 9/13 shooting. He's been bad the first 3 games of this series. But he could be like 17/19 with 45 and 15 and people would rag on him.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on May 28, 2024, 06:11:15 AM
shooters shoot eyn'a?
someone shoulda told him he ain't a shooter...today...pass the f'ing ball and go get rebounds like good bigs do
If only KAT had listened to this, the Timberwolves would have gotten to go on vacation earlier.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 28, 2024, 10:13:21 PM
Towns went for 25 points on 9/13 shooting. He's been bad the first 3 games of this series. But he could be like 17/19 with 45 and 15 and people would rag on him.
His issue is he doesnt keep himself on the floor
He had 5 fouls with 6 minutes left in the 3rd quarter. 3 of the fouls offensive
Thats damn near impossible in the NBA and hes always doing stuff like that. And then he whines every time he commits the dumb foul. He brings it all on himself.
Kat finally had a good game. Kyrie, Luka, and Washington shot an abysmal percentage. Credit to Minny for staying alive.
Minnesota Sports have decades upon decades of futility and embarrassment.
That qtr right there was possibly the worst of them all.
Makes our first half vs Nc State look like an inspiration.
Minnesota can still come back. Skeptical, but stranger things have happened.
For several seasons on Netflix.
3rd quarter officiating really reeks of...maybe we can help Minnesota still have a chance.
Quote from: forgetful on May 30, 2024, 09:24:41 PM
3rd quarter officiating really reeks of...maybe we can help Minnesota still have a chance.
The worst stripe shirts in history couldn't save the Wolves.
I have to admit that I was skeptical of Dallas being able to win with Luka and Kyrie in the lineup together.
Good for the Mavs. They definitely have a shot against Boston.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 30, 2024, 09:36:14 PM
The worst stripe shirts in history couldn't save the Wolves.
Doncic largely single handedly put it out of reach in the 1st quarter. Then Kyrie sealed it all up with an amazing 2nd quarter.
Dallas v Boston. OMax v Sam
Quote from: tower912 on May 31, 2024, 05:45:24 AM
Dallas v Boston. OMax v Sam
Sam will shutdown Luka and OMax will average 18/10 with 3 blocks per game.
Quote from: Jockey on May 31, 2024, 09:43:38 AM
Sam will shutdown Luka and OMax will average 18/10 with 3 blocks per game.
It's all about the team for the Hauser family. Dave will be waiting outside the locker room if they lose to let Mazzula know he should've gotten more looks for Oshae Brissett instead of letting Tatum and Brown take so many shots.
Quote from: tower912 on May 31, 2024, 05:45:24 AM
Dallas v Boston. OMax v Sam
Jae Crowder's former team vs Jae Crowder's former team
Quote from: Jockey on May 31, 2024, 09:43:38 AM
Sam will shutdown Luka and OMax will average 18/10 with 3 blocks per game.
Sam will play, OMax probably won't.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 31, 2024, 01:38:15 PM
Sam will play, OMax probably won't.
I'll be cheering for the Marquette grad
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 31, 2024, 02:12:40 PM
I'll be cheering for the Marquette grad
Same.
I do love Jrue though. Jrue and OMax actually won something in Milwaukee.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 31, 2024, 02:12:40 PM
I'll be cheering for the Marquette grad
If he plays so will I.
Some Celtics fans with a dilemma - root for the Celtics or the really good white guy.
Others all in on Boston, finally payback for JFK.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 31, 2024, 03:29:46 PM
If he plays so will I.
Some Celtics fans with a dilemma - root for the Celtics or the really good white guy.
Others all in on Boston, finally payback for JFK.
could just be a baketball game or 7
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 31, 2024, 03:29:46 PM
If he plays so will I.
Some Celtics fans with a dilemma - root for the Celtics or the really good white guy.
Others all in on Boston, finally payback for JFK.
They have REAL LONG memories in Boston
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 31, 2024, 03:29:46 PM
If he plays so will I.
Some Celtics fans with a dilemma - root for the Celtics or the really good white guy.
Others all in on Boston, finally payback for JFK.
Well said, Lenny. :)
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 31, 2024, 04:22:06 PM
They have REAL LONG memories in Boston
Most of us Irish can't remember last night. Slainte ;D
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 31, 2024, 04:22:06 PM
They have REAL LONG memories in Boston
I couldn't even get an iced tea when I was out there.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 31, 2024, 01:38:15 PM
Sam will play, OMax probably won't.
We'll see if he can improve on his 12.5%/7.1% splits from the ECF against the worst defensive team in the league.
Quote from: BM1090 on May 31, 2024, 08:36:13 PM
We'll see if he can improve on his 12.5%/7.1% splits from the ECF against the worst defensive team in the league.
I blame Lenny. The only 2 minutes he saw Sam play, Sam went 2/2 with an assist. He will outplay Luka as long as Lenny has his eyes on him. If not, you'd be better of playing Ners in Sam's spot.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 31, 2024, 08:37:46 PM
I blame Lenny. The only 2 minutes he saw Sam play, Sam went 2/2 with an assist. He will outplay Luka as long as Lenny has his eyes on him. If not, you'd be better of playing Ners in Sam's spot.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 31, 2024, 08:37:46 PM
I blame Lenny. The only 2 minutes he saw Sam play, Sam went 2/2 with an assist. He will outplay Luka as long as Lenny has his eyes on him. If not, you'd be better of playing Ners in Sam's spot.
Ners dunks. Not sure Sam can
Quote from: wadesworld on May 31, 2024, 08:37:46 PM
I blame Lenny. The only 2 minutes he saw Sam play, Sam went 2/2 with an assist. He will outplay Luka as long as Lenny has his eyes on him. If not, you'd be better of playing Ners in Sam's spot.
Wrong. As I said, one (1) rebound, two (2) assists and one (1) block.
#Fake News #Lies
Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 31, 2024, 08:44:05 PM
Ners dunks. Not sure Sam can
Sam plays the game the right way.
I was shocked how easily Jason Kidd outsmarted Chris Finch. after watching the wolves dispatch the nuggets, I thought that was a team to beat...now I think the Celtics have their work cut out for themselves and this is going to be a war.
whoever can stay the most healthy will win. lively's going to need a helmet to play. otherwise in a VERY physical game with very few players fouling out of this game resembling rugby and lacrosse, Boston may have to unleash their secret weapon, nesmias queta at 7'/250lbs.
Who ya got in the Finals? I'm going Celtics in 7 but am rooting for Dallas.
breaking news-lakers preparing to offer dan hurley a big offer-
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40289529/sources-lakers-preparing-massive-offer-uconn-dan-hurley
anyone think he bites?
Yeah, I would guess he's gone. Nothing really left to prove at UConn and would make a lot more money. No recruiting, no portal, no NIL, etc.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 06, 2024, 07:51:02 AM
Yeah, I would guess he's gone. Nothing really left to prove at UConn and would make a lot more money. No recruiting, no portal, no NIL, etc.
On the other hand - The coaching style that works on children does not necessarily work on grown men that have $100MM+ contracts.
If I were Hurley I'd take the job just to have Lakers HC on my resume, but I do not think he will be a successful NBA coach.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on June 06, 2024, 08:52:05 AM
On the other hand - The coaching style that works on children does not necessarily work on grown men that have $100MM+ contracts.
If I were Hurley I'd take the job just to have Lakers HC on my resume, but I do not think he will be a successful NBA coach.
Do you really think he's not smart enough to know this himself? Yes, by nature he is high energy and demanding. But I think he's a smart enough guy to adapt to what will work with his group of players or with what level he is coaching at.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 06, 2024, 11:25:28 AM
Do you really think he's not smart enough to know this himself? Yes, by nature he is high energy and demanding. But I think he's a smart enough guy to adapt to what will work with his group of players or with what level he is coaching at.
I am smart enough to know the same thing about myself and also I would jump at the Lakers job if they offered it to me.
I do not think that every person is capable of managing monster egos. I do not think Hurley has shown that he has an ability to do so, the power dynamic in college is the opposite of the NBA. I think college bully micro-management doesn't translate to the NBA coach/ceo role. Not saying he can't do it, just saying what got him here won't get him there.
Is Hurley's personality and management style more "in your face" than Thibodeau's?
I'd also take this all with a grain of salt because JJ was a done deal a few weeks ago and there have been 1-2 other IMMINENT names I feel like in this search.
Also, the funniest side bar is that Hurley is attractive because now they can get Bronny and Hurley will develop him into a star.
Well, both Hurley himself and good reporters' Laker sources say the sides are talking. So I believe they're talking. But yes, whether anything comes of it, we'll see.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 06, 2024, 12:45:45 PM
Also, the funniest side bar is that Hurley is attractive because now they can get Bronny and Hurley will develop him into a star.
If they are paying me 20M a year, they can draft Kevin James for all I care.
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 06, 2024, 04:21:11 PM
If they are paying me 20M a year, they can draft Kevin James for all I care.
I'd give up half of my salary to hire the best assistant coaches in the land. I might even be successful that way, and still making $10MM a year
Pretty cool to see OMax in National Anthem line all suited up. Nice tribute to Walton
Some big problems early for Dallas.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 06, 2024, 08:04:45 PM
Some big problems early for Dallas.
Celts can't miss and dare I say Sam has been a lockdown defender
Think Dallas will be fine, but impressive so far from Boston.
Quote from: BM1090 on June 06, 2024, 08:12:32 PM
Think Dallas will be fine, but impressive so far from Boston.
Porzingas is a gargantuan prob. :(
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 06, 2024, 08:17:09 PM
Porzingas is a gargantuan prob. :(
I meant for the series, probably not tonight with how he's got it going.
Quote from: BM1090 on June 06, 2024, 08:17:44 PM
I meant for the series, probably not tonight with how he's got it going.
Fair enough. Disappointed the Mavs weren't ready to ball.
If the Wadlowian Latvian plays like this you can cancel Christmas.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on June 06, 2024, 08:06:53 PM
Celts can't miss and dare I say Sam has been a lockdown defender
Very good on both ends. Doris gave him a nice shout out.
Yeah, Dallas will be fine.
Wow. Luka is ridiculous.
Boston going downhill at will now.
Good to see the Celtics wearing their classic home whites with green trim.
Not sure exactly when it happened or why, but over the last X years more and more NBA and NHL home teams have opted to wear their dark (formerly road) uniforms at home.
It's not a big deal. It doesn't "matter." But I liked the Celtics in white last night.
Quote from: MU82 on June 07, 2024, 05:10:53 PM
Good to see the Celtics wearing their classic home whites with green trim.
Not sure exactly when it happened or why, but over the last X years more and more NBA and NHL home teams have opted to wear their dark (formerly road) uniforms at home.
It's not a big deal. It doesn't "matter." But I liked the Celtics in white last night.
Many in Boston like their Celtics white as well.
Naturally.
Kyrie has lost 11 straight in Boston.
Luka may need 55 tonight.
Dallas gonna need a player not named Luka to realize the NBA finals are going on
Not a good sign that Boston is 4-25:from three but up 10.
It is for Boston.
That was the back breaker
Kyrie may nor be the most talented player in the history of the NBA. What a bizarre comment from Lebron.
Porzingas may be hurt. Dallas still has time to get their heads out of their asses.
Holiday just slammed the door. 3 consecutive plays.
The media and "export analysis" around the NBA Finals has felt like one insane fever dream. The Mavericks cannot match up with the Celtics at virtually any position. This might be the biggest talent mismatch of any Finals in decades. And the Celtics have a much better coach (and organization) to boot.
Special shout out to ESPN/ABC for incessantly pushing the "Luka/Kyrie greatest scoring backcourt duo ever" + "Kyrie one of the few greatest scoring guards ever" narratives. Both humiliatingly absurd takes from an organization producing pitiful broadcast after pitiful broadcast for one of the greatest sporting events in the world.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 09, 2024, 11:35:03 PM
The media and "export analysis" around the NBA Finals has felt like one insane fever dream. The Mavericks cannot match up with the Celtics at virtually any position. This might be the biggest talent mismatch of any Finals in decades. And the Celtics have a much better coach (and organization) to boot.
Special shout out to ESPN/ABC for incessantly pushing the "Luka/Kyrie greatest scoring backcourt duo ever" + "Kyrie one of the few greatest scoring guards ever" narratives. Both humiliatingly absurd takes from an organization producing pitiful broadcast after pitiful broadcast for one of the greatest sporting events in the world.
Agree with most of this, but Mazulla is a bad coach. His guys love him so he is doing something right, but an Xs and Os perspective he's one of the worst in the league from what I've read.
Quote from: BM1090 on June 09, 2024, 11:57:21 PM
Agree with most of this, but Mazulla is a bad coach. His guys love him so he is doing something right, but an Xs and Os perspective he's one of the worst in the league from what I've read.
I've watched ~80 Celtics games this year and that simply isn't true. I think that's something the media expects/wants because he's so young, wasn't originally intended to be the Celtics HC, etc. I was a skeptic of his last year too, but he's improved significantly across the board. Game planning, in-game adjustments, play calling, huddles, plays out of timeouts, lineups, even challenges are all solid to great. I'm not sure how you could watch the Celtics this postseason (especially these two Finals games) and not be impressed with the game planning in particular. No doubt he benefits from the most talented roster in the NBA, but keeping star-laden teams focused and together is a key characteristic of great coaches.
My original comment was also about bad Jason Kidd is. I think he's brutal. I'd take Mazzulla over him any day of the week.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 10, 2024, 12:59:48 AM
I've watched ~80 Celtics games this year and that simply isn't true. I think that's something the media expects/wants because he's so young, wasn't originally intended to be the Celtics HC, etc. I was a skeptic of his last year too, but he's improved significantly across the board. Game planning, in-game adjustments, play calling, huddles, plays out of timeouts, lineups, even challenges are all solid to great. I'm not sure how you could watch the Celtics this postseason (especially these two Finals games) and not be impressed with the game planning in particular. No doubt he benefits from the most talented roster in the NBA, but keeping star-laden teams focused and together is a key characteristic of great coaches.
My original comment was also about bad Jason Kidd is. I think he's brutal. I'd take Mazzulla over him any day of the week.
Interesting. I'll take your word for it and try to watch them more.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 10, 2024, 12:59:48 AM
I've watched ~80 Celtics games this year and that simply isn't true. I think that's something the media expects/wants because he's so young, wasn't originally intended to be the Celtics HC, etc. I was a skeptic of his last year too, but he's improved significantly across the board. Game planning, in-game adjustments, play calling, huddles, plays out of timeouts, lineups, even challenges are all solid to great. I'm not sure how you could watch the Celtics this postseason (especially these two Finals games) and not be impressed with the game planning in particular. No doubt he benefits from the most talented roster in the NBA, but keeping star-laden teams focused and together is a key characteristic of great coaches.
My original comment was also about bad Jason Kidd is. I think he's brutal. I'd take Mazzulla over him any day of the week.
During the playoffs at least (which are all the Celtics games I've seen), Mazzulla has had a good feel for when to call time-outs. Almost every time, Boston is reeling a bit when he calls them, and then plays much better after they get back on the court.
People form early perceptions and those can be hard to shake. If last year's playoff collapse was largely Mazzulla's fault, shouldn't he get at least some credit for what's happening this year?
Quote from: MU82 on June 10, 2024, 07:16:51 AM
During the playoffs at least (which are all the Celtics games I've seen), Mazzulla has had a good feel for when to call time-outs. Almost every time, Boston is reeling a bit when he calls them, and then plays much better after they get back on the court.
People form early perceptions and those can be hard to shake. If last year's playoff collapse was largely Mazzulla's fault, shouldn't he get at least some credit for what's happening this year?
Sure. However I don't think Boston could have asked for a more fortunate road given their health and everyone else's key injuries. This is probably the least compelling NBA playoffs I have seen for a long while.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 10, 2024, 07:45:25 AM
Sure. However I don't think Boston could have asked for a more fortunate road given their health and everyone else's key injuries. This is probably the least compelling NBA playoffs I have seen for a long while.
It certainly hasn't been compelling since the 2nd rd.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 10, 2024, 08:52:06 AM
It certainly hasn't been compelling since the 2nd rd.
And even the two game 7s in that round were pretty dull.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 10, 2024, 08:55:15 AM
And even the two game 7s in that round were pretty dull.
Ya....really the only good series has been Dallas/OKC.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 10, 2024, 07:45:25 AM
Sure. However I don't think Boston could have asked for a more fortunate road given their health and everyone else's key injuries.
All you can do is play the teams on your schedule. Boston also had a major injury and nonetheless kept winning.
Meanwhile ...
Jrue Holiday has 38 points and zero turnovers in the Finals so far. He had 26 points and 11 rebounds last night, and played his usual brand of in-your-face D.
He also had this exchange with a reporter during the post-game press conference:
Reporter: "If Jaylen and Jayson are the superstars on this team, what's your role? And if you're gonna be the team's leading scorer, leading rebounder and shoot the highest percentage in Game 2 of the Finals, why aren't you a superstar, as well?"
Holiday: "I'm a utility guy. I'll do whatever. I'm here to win. ... At the end of the day, this is their team. ... The pressure that they have on themselves to execute and to be great is a little bit different than my pressure. I've always been honest about that, and how they handle themselves [has] been so honorable. So it's slightly different. They're superstars and I'm here to support."
Can't help but love that attitude. What a great pickup he was by the Celtics.
Quote from: MU82 on June 10, 2024, 09:08:56 AM
All you can do is play the teams on your schedule.
Right. But my point is that these playoffs are not really a great example of Mazulla's in-game coaching acumen. He may have grown into the role, but they haven't gotten a great test from anyone.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 10, 2024, 09:13:03 AM
Right. But my point is that these playoffs are not really a great example of Mazulla's in-game coaching acumen. He may have grown into the role, but they haven't gotten a great test from anyone.
Understood. I'm a "benefit of the doubt" kind of guy, so I'll give him some credit. But sure, he hasn't stood the test of time yet.
Quote from: MU82 on June 10, 2024, 07:16:51 AM
During the playoffs at least (which are all the Celtics games I've seen), Mazzulla has had a good feel for when to call time-outs. Almost every time, Boston is reeling a bit when he calls them, and then plays much better after they get back on the court.
This is an example of his improvement year-over-year. He was really bad using timeouts last season. He was stubborn and tried to let them team play through too many rough patches. Way better this season. The timeout he used when the Celtics were chaotically advancing the ball in transition last night (in the 3rd?) was probably the most impactful TO I've seen a coach use this postseason. I don't mean to sound hyperbolic, but this stuff does matter.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 10, 2024, 09:13:03 AM
Right. But my point is that these playoffs are not really a great example of Mazulla's in-game coaching acumen. He may have grown into the role, but they haven't gotten a great test from anyone.
I agree he'll still have more to prove, but if the Celtics beat the Mavericks that's a big test passed. In my view, the Celtics' defensive strategy has been the difference in the series so far.
This point is more tangential, but I also disagree with the consensus that the West is so much better than the East, e.g. I think the Knicks and Pacers are pretty similar level teams to the Mavericks and Timberwolves. Yes, the Celtics ran into some key opponent injuries but they also missed a key player themselves, arguably the one with the least replaceable skill set on their team.
Stevens did a brilliant job constructing that team too. Finally pulling the trigger on trading Smart was a really good decision.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 10, 2024, 09:31:34 AM
I agree he'll still have more to prove, but if the Celtics beat the Mavericks that's a big test passed. In my view, the Celtics' defensive strategy has been the difference in the series so far.
This point is more tangential, but I also disagree with the consensus that the West is so much better than the East, e.g. I think the Knicks and Pacers are pretty similar level teams to the Mavericks and Timberwolves. Yes, the Celtics ran into some key opponent injuries but they also missed a key player themselves, arguably the one with the least replaceable skill set on their team.
Nah, the West is quite a bit better than the East. And the healthy West teams were miles better than the banged-up East teams the Celtics got to face.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 10, 2024, 09:54:46 AM
Stevens did a brilliant job constructing that team too. Finally pulling the trigger on trading Smart was a really good decision.
More than any other one person, Stevens deserves the credit for the Celtics success. Tremendous roster building.
Quote from: MU82 on June 10, 2024, 10:01:34 AM
Nah, the West is quite a bit better than the East. And the healthy West teams were miles better than the banged-up East teams the Celtics got to face.
I keep seeing this repeated - I just don't agree. I think the Mavs and Wolves are severely overrated. Both were good-not-great NBA teams propped up by extreme playoff recency bias. The Clippers and Suns also overrated - both with deep flaws in their rosters. Love the Thunder, but inexperience predictably was the end of them.
I think the Nuggets were still the best team in the West and would have made for the most competitive Finals. Unfortunately, they laid an egg in a nightmare matchup. I couldn't see anybody else in the conference competing with the Celtics in a seven game series.
I'll give the edge to the West in overall quality of depth. But among the top 5-6, I really don't see much of a disparity. Especially with the Celtics balancing things as the clear top dog in the NBA.
We disagree, and that's ok.
Darvin Ham returning to the Bucks.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 10, 2024, 09:31:34 AM
I agree he'll still have more to prove, but if the Celtics beat the Mavericks that's a big test passed. In my view, the Celtics' defensive strategy has been the difference in the series so far.
This point is more tangential, but I also disagree with the consensus that the West is so much better than the East, e.g. I think the Knicks and Pacers are pretty similar level teams to the Mavericks and Timberwolves. Yes, the Celtics ran into some key opponent injuries but they also missed a key player themselves, arguably the one with the least replaceable skill set on their team.
If you don't think the Mavs can compete at any position (which is wild given that the Mavs backcourt is far and away better than the C's, and Jrue Holiday is my favorite athlete of all time) and you think the Mavs are horribly overrated (you should check what they've done since the trade deadline), then wouldn't the talent gap be "the difference in the series so far?"
The C's took care of home court advantage. They should win the title, but claiming this is a complete mismatch after 2 games in Boston is a bit premature. Luka is the best player in the series, and Kyrie has games where he will be the 2nd best player in the series. That gives you a chance in any game.
Also LOL at thinking the PACERS or banged up Knicks are on the same level as the Mavs and Wolves. That is almost as crazy as thinking Joe Mazula is a good coach. He's Wojo. Rely on your talent to win you games. Fortunately for him, he's not in charge of putting the talent together.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 10, 2024, 02:53:25 PM
If you don't think the Mavs can compete at any position (which is wild given that the Mavs backcourt is far and away better than the C's, and Jrue Holiday is my favorite athlete of all time) and you think the Mavs are horribly overrated (you should check what they've done since the trade deadline), then wouldn't the talent gap be "the difference in the series so far?"
The C's took care of home court advantage. They should win the title, but claiming this is a complete mismatch after 2 games in Boston is a bit premature. Luka is the best player in the series, and Kyrie has games where he will be the 2nd best player in the series. That gives you a chance in any game.
Also LOL at thinking the PACERS or banged up Knicks are on the same level as the Mavs and Wolves. That is almost as crazy as thinking Joe Mazula is a good coach. He's Wojo. Rely on your talent to win you games. Fortunately for him, he's not in charge of putting the talent together.
I have been told on here that NBA coaches can run circles around NCAA coaches, so Mazula must be a genious. Both he and Jason Kidd.
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 10, 2024, 04:02:57 PM
I have been told on here that NBA coaches can run circles around NCAA coaches, so Mazula must be a genious. Both he and Jason Kidd.
They're probably much better than a large majority of college coaches. But Mazula is not a good NBA coach.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 10, 2024, 02:53:25 PM
If you don't think the Mavs can compete at any position (which is wild given that the Mavs backcourt is far and away better than the C's, and Jrue Holiday is my favorite athlete of all time) and you think the Mavs are horribly overrated (you should check what they've done since the trade deadline), then wouldn't the talent gap be "the difference in the series so far?"
The C's took care of home court advantage. They should win the title, but claiming this is a complete mismatch after 2 games in Boston is a bit premature. Luka is the best player in the series, and Kyrie has games where he will be the 2nd best player in the series. That gives you a chance in any game.
Also LOL at thinking the PACERS or banged up Knicks are on the same level as the Mavs and Wolves. That is almost as crazy as thinking Joe Mazula is a good coach. He's Wojo. Rely on your talent to win you games. Fortunately for him, he's not in charge of putting the talent together.
The defensive strategy being the "difference" was not the best way to put it. Perhaps better described as the most impactful coaching in the serious so far.
I increasingly don't think terms like "backcourt" matter anymore, especially with players like Luka. But to match your incredulity, I'm stupefied that anybody could be watching this series and believe that Kyrie is "far and away" better than Jrue Holiday. That's not an attempt to extrapolate sweeping conclusions from two games, it's that those two games exemplify why Kyrie is
not on some other tier than Holiday. Is Kyrie a much better scorer, finisher, ball handler? Obviously. Is Jrue a much better defender? Obviously. For reasons that don't involve their tangible skill sets, I would take Jrue over Kyrie straight up, which is probably a minority position. But that's certainly not some fringe take. We're talking about two very likely Hall of Famers.
You've seized on some hyperbole in my post ("cannot match up at virtually any position"), so I'll flesh out my positions on specific players in the series:
Luka vs Tatum: Doncic is the best player in the series, but isn't worlds better than Jayson Tatum. He's already one of the greatest scorers in NBA history but a mediocre defender, to assess it generously. Tatum is the second best player in the series. Very good all around player, impacts the game in multiple ways offensively, good defender.
Derrick White vs Kyrie: Kyrie has the edge as an historically great ballhandler and finisher. Excellent scorer, good passer. Fine defender. Has been outplayed by Derrick White through two games. White is a good facilitator who doesn't have a lot of pressure on him to make plays because his teammates are so skilled. Elite defender at the PG position. Historically great blocking guard.
Jaylen Brown vs. PJ Washington: Here's where the absurd mismatches start. Brown is the third best player in the series. Well-rounded offensive game, sensational athlete especially in transition. Very good defender. PJ Washington is a good NBA roleplayer. Good shooter, solid-but-not-great defender. He's a starter on most NBA teams, but a below average starter on a Finals team.
Porzingis vs. Lively: Again, c'mon. Porzingis is a offensive unicorn, able to score from all levels. Plus rim protector. Lively is a promising rookie. Good rim protector. Limited offensive skill set at this stage in his career.
Jrue vs. Derrick Jones: The drumbeat rolls on. Jrue is an elite on-ball defender that wins at the highest level. He's also a well-rounded scorer who's boasted great efficiency on a team where he's the fourth of fifth option. Derrick Jones is another solid NBA role player. Good defender, passable offensive game. He's a fringy NBA starter, and certainly not someone to lean in on the NBA Finals.
I'll also take Horford, Pritchard, and Hauser (collectively) over Gafford, Kleber, Green, Hardway, Exum.
The battle of the top twos is close. If you want to take Doncic and Kyrie over Tatum and Brown, that's fine
(though I'd disagree). The problem for the Mavericks is that the Celtics have the next three best players in the series, and it isn't close. The talent disparity past the top duos is
extreme. I can't see this series going past five games. Frankly I wish that weren't true, because I'd just like to see a competitive series as a basketball fan.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 10, 2024, 02:53:25 PM
Also LOL at thinking the PACERS or banged up Knicks are on the same level as the Mavs and Wolves. That is almost as crazy as thinking Joe Mazula is a good coach. He's Wojo. Rely on your talent to win you games. Fortunately for him, he's not in charge of putting the talent together.
I'm also stupefied by this take. The Wolves were widely and correctly understood to be a deeply flawed team despite a talented roster before they squeaked past the Nuggets. Then ESPN flipped a switch in everyone's brain and they became a mythical, exalted group after that one series. They were the clear choice to come out of the west, maybe the best team in the NBA! And then they got dogwalked by the Mavs.
Shocking that KAT didn't play up to his talent or physical ability or that Rudy Gobert's game didn't translate to a competitive playoff series. Can we go back to what we'd all agreed upon before that Nuggets series, please?
We're seeing the Mavs exposed before our very eyes in this series. I'll let Boston do the talking there. It's nonstop clamoring about the Celtics' easy path, but it's the Mavs who have beaten a terribly flawed and aging Clippers team, the teenage Thunder, and the Most Overrated Team in NBA History the 2023-24 T-Wolves.
Let's see what happens in the Finals from here. And that same principle can stand for Mazzulla (spell check plz). Plenty to criticize through two seasons, but if you think he's Wojo you don't know ball. I think most are just confused and upset about his press conference affect.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 10, 2024, 09:17:57 PM
The defensive strategy being the "difference" was not the best way to put it. Perhaps better described as the most impactful coaching in the serious so far.
I increasingly don't think terms like "backcourt" matter anymore, especially with players like Luka. But to match your incredulity, I'm stupefied that anybody could be watching this series and believe that Kyrie is "far and away" better than Jrue Holiday. That's not an attempt to extrapolate sweeping conclusions from two games, it's that those two games exemplify why Kyrie is not on some other tier than Holiday. Is Kyrie a much better scorer, finisher, ball handler? Obviously. Is Jrue a much better defender? Obviously. For reasons that don't involve their tangible skill sets, I would take Jrue over Kyrie straight up, which is probably a minority position. But that's certainly not some fringe take. We're talking about two very likely Hall of Famers.
You've seized on some hyperbole in my post ("cannot match up at virtually any position"), so I'll flesh out my positions on specific players in the series:
Luka vs Tatum: Doncic is the best player in the series, but isn't worlds better than Jayson Tatum. He's already one of the greatest scorers in NBA history but a mediocre defender, to assess it generously. Tatum is the second best player in the series. Very good all around player, impacts the game in multiple ways offensively, good defender.
Derrick White vs Kyrie: Kyrie has the edge as an historically great ballhandler and finisher. Excellent scorer, good passer. Fine defender. Has been outplayed by Derrick White through two games. White is a good facilitator who doesn't have a lot of pressure on him to make plays because his teammates are so skilled. Elite defender at the PG position. Historically great blocking guard.
Jaylen Brown vs. PJ Washington: Here's where the absurd mismatches start. Brown is the third best player in the series. Well-rounded offensive game, sensational athlete especially in transition. Very good defender. PJ Washington is a good NBA roleplayer. Good shooter, solid-but-not-great defender. He's a starter on most NBA teams, but a below average starter on a Finals team.
Porzingis vs. Lively: Again, c'mon. Porzingis is a offensive unicorn, able to score from all levels. Plus rim protector. Lively is a promising rookie. Good rim protector. Limited offensive skill set at this stage in his career.
Jrue vs. Derrick Jones: The drumbeat rolls on. Jrue is an elite on-ball defender that wins at the highest level. He's also a well-rounded scorer who's boasted great efficiency on a team where he's the fourth of fifth option. Derrick Jones is another solid NBA role player. Good defender, passable offensive game. He's a fringy NBA starter, and certainly not someone to lean in on the NBA Finals.
I'll also take Horford, Pritchard, and Hauser (collectively) over Gafford, Kleber, Green, Hardway, Exum.
The battle of the top twos is close. If you want to take Doncic and Kyrie over Tatum and Brown, that's fine (though I'd disagree). The problem for the Mavericks is that the Celtics have the next three best players in the series, and it isn't close. The talent disparity past the top duos is extreme. I can't see this series going past five games. Frankly I wish that weren't true, because I'd just like to see a competitive series as a basketball fan.
Maybe not "worlds" better but Luka is considerably better than Tatum. Tatum isnt even a true alpha much less in Luka league. Hes very talented and can win a title on a stacked team like this Cs team. But the Mavs would be play in at best if you swapped Tatum for Luka on that roster
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 10, 2024, 09:28:20 PM
I'm also stupefied by this take. The Wolves were widely and correctly understood to be a deeply flawed team despite a talented roster before they squeaked past the Nuggets. Then ESPN flipped a switch in everyone's brain and they became a mythical, exalted group after that one series. They were the clear choice to come out of the west, maybe the best team in the NBA! And then they got dogwalked by the Mavs. Shocking that KAT didn't play up to his talent or physical ability or that Rudy Gobert's game didn't translate to a competitive playoff series. Can we go back to what we'd all agreed upon before that Nuggets series, please?
We're seeing the Mavs exposed before our very eyes in this series. I'll let Boston do the talking there. It's nonstop clamoring about the Celtics' easy path, but it's the Mavs who have beaten a terribly flawed and aging Clippers team, the teenage Thunder, and the Most Overrated Team in NBA History the 2023-24 T-Wolves.
Let's see what happens in the Finals from here. And that same principle can stand for Mazzulla (spell check plz). Plenty to criticize through two seasons, but if you think he's Wojo you don't know ball. I think most are just confused and upset about his press conference affect.
Lol damn you're right now that I think about it. Clearly a good team would've simply had their way with the paper tigers that are the Nuggets. Err...
The TWolves spanked the Suns and beat the defending champions. The Pacers went to 6 with a completely Giannis-less, partially Dame-less Bucks and went to 7 with the Knicks who had...Brunson and I couldn't even tell you who played night to night for the Knicks with all of their injuries.
But yeah. Pacers are definitely on the same tier as the Mavs and TWolves. Funny that you claim others don't know ball when you make statements like that and that the Eastern Conference was as good as the Western Conference.
We'll see how the rest of the series goes. The C's should win and have been the best team all year. But they've won 2 home games.
Boston has 4 guys that can switch and guard multiple positions. And Porzingas is a a capable defender as well, and not just protecting the paint. The defensive versatility of Boston is unlike any team in the NBA. That's why they can shoot a poor percentage and still win.
Luka is a very unique talent and undoubtedly the best alpha scorer in the league. That's different from saying he's the best player in the league.
I would agree that if the Mavs had Tatum they probably would've been on the play-in line, given they only finished a few games above #7 anyway. Though I don't think there's any chance they'd miss the postseason with Tatum. JT has a fair amount left to prove in the NBA, but I think he gets unfairly criticized for being on a good team. He'd be a higher volume scorer on almost any other team. For me, what's left for him to prove is toughness and game-closing in high pressure spots. I do expect him to have a couple monster games ahead of him in this Finals.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 10, 2024, 09:46:19 PM
Lol damn you're right now that I think about it. Clearly a good team would've simply had their way with the paper tigers that are the Nuggets. Err...
The TWolves spanked the Suns and beat the defending champions. The Pacers went to 6 with a completely Giannis-less, partially Dame-less Bucks and went to 7 with the Knicks who had...Brunson and I couldn't even tell you who played night to night for the Knicks with all of their injuries.
But yeah. Pacers are definitely on the same tier as the Mavs and TWolves. Funny that you claim others don't know ball when you make statements like that and that the Eastern Conference was as good as the Western Conference.
We'll see how the rest of the series goes. The C's should win and have been the best team all year. But they've won 2 home games.
The Suns: a super talented and hideously constructed big three with zero roster depth. Not a great team in the slightest. The Nuggets: a remarkably favorable matchup for the T-Wolves. Real credit no doubt due. I repeat: insane, sweeping claims made about this team after this very short playoff run. Let's see what this roster does in the years ahead, should it stay intact.
I'll take the Pacers (with Tyrese) over the Suns seven days a week. The Wolves have the edge on the Pacers, but it isn't some huge gulf. I cannot stress this enough:
The Minnesota Timberwolves were not a great basketball team.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 10, 2024, 10:03:06 PM
The Suns: a super talented and hideously constructed big three with zero roster depth. Not a great team in the slightest. The Nuggets: a remarkably favorable matchup for the T-Wolves. Real credit no doubt due. I repeat: insane, sweeping claims made about this team after this very short playoff run. Let's see what this roster does in the years ahead, should it stay intact.
I'll take the Pacers (with Tyrese) over the Suns seven days a week. The Wolves have the edge on the Pacers, but it isn't some huge gulf. I cannot stress this enough: The Minnesota Timberwolves were not a great basketball team.
It's a ginormous gap between the Wolves and the Pacers. I'd hope we could agree that while the Suns are flawed, KD, Booker, Beal, and any 2 NBA players are better than Khris, Dame for a couple games, Brook, Bobby, Pat C, and Pat B. And the Bucks were way more competitive than the Suns in those respective series.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 10, 2024, 10:40:02 PM
It's a ginormous gap between the Wolves and the Pacers. I'd hope we could agree that while the Suns are flawed, KD, Booker, Beal, and any 2 NBA players are better than Khris, Dame for a couple games, Brook, Bobby, Pat C, and Pat B. And the Bucks were way more competitive than the Suns in those respective series.
I think a seven game series with IND vs MIN would be a very close one. You don't agree, and that's fine.
As for Suns vs. depleted Bucks, sure I'd take the Suns. But I didn't contend the Celtics didn't have a relatively easy path. I contended the western conference and the Mavs path have been highly overrated.
RIP Jerry West
Not only one of the greatest players of all time, but arguably even a better general manager, winning 8 titles in that role.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 12, 2024, 09:00:33 AM
RIP Jerry West
Not only one of the greatest players of all time, but arguably even a better general manager, winning 8 titles in that role.
Truly a giant of the game. He will be missed.
Massive loss for the game of basketball.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 12, 2024, 09:00:33 AM
RIP Jerry West
Not only one of the greatest players of all time, but arguably even a better general manager, winning 8 titles in that role.
He wasn't there when they won, but he set up the Shaq/Kobe team for their three championships as well.
Quote from: cheebs09 on June 12, 2024, 09:20:05 AM
He wasn't there when they won, but he set up the Shaq/Kobe team for their three championships as well.
He was there for the first one.
And I was wrong. He won six with the Lakers and was with the Warriors organization when they won two of their championships.
West's career stats are very impressive. And there was no 3pt line. Way before my time but it seems to me Boston had much better teams top to bottom.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 12, 2024, 09:00:33 AM
RIP Jerry West
Not only one of the greatest players of all time, but arguably even a better general manager, winning 8 titles in that role.
And was working right up until the end for the Clippers. Absolutely INSANE career longevity and adaptability as a front office exec
Dallas could make this a series. That Porzingas injury changes things.
The insinuation that Tatum is at least in the convo with Luka was one of the crazier takes Ive heard.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 12, 2024, 07:52:12 PM
The insinuation that Tatum is at least in the convo with Luka was one of the crazier takes Ive heard.
Kyrie didn't take Sam off the bounce. That's a problem if you're Dallas.
I am the Kyrie Irving kiss of death. Every time I tune in, he goes cold.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 12, 2024, 07:52:12 PM
The insinuation that Tatum is at least in the convo with Luka was one of the crazier takes Ive heard.
Tatum may have read your post.
I think I'd like Tatum a lot more if he played on a different team. The Cs tendency to randomly ball stop or stand on the perimeter, specifically with Tatum palming it, stinks to watch a talented scorer who can get to the rim at will
Dallas better figure it out or it's over.
When the Celtics shoot like this, good luck. This whole building is shook. Series over.
Great toughness from the Mavs to climb back in this.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 12, 2024, 09:40:29 PM
Great toughness from the Mavs to climb back in this.
Doncic fouling out doesn't help.
Not a smart shot fron Kyrie.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 12, 2024, 08:23:35 PM
Tatum may have read your post.
No. They are legit better without him even on the floor.
Brown is the alpha of that team. Which is why comparing Tatum to Luka is crazy cause Tatum isnt even the best on that team when it matters
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 12, 2024, 09:58:20 PM
No. They are legit better without him even on the floor.
Brown is the alpha of that team. Which is why comparing Tatum to Luka is crazy cause Tatum isnt even the best on that team when it matters
Luka can't foul out of this game though. Absolute killer.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 12, 2024, 09:58:20 PM
No. They are legit better without him even on the floor.
Brown is the alpha of that team. Which is why comparing Tatum to Luka is crazy cause Tatum isnt even the best on that team when it matters
Brown has taken his game to another level and is the clear MVP, but Jayson Tatum is leading all NBA players in +/- this postseason. He's been great.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 12, 2024, 10:00:04 PM
Luka can't foul out of this game though. Absolute killer.
Maybe the knee is contributing, but conditioning is a legit issue for him. Maybe the only thing holding him back from being the clear best player in basketball.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 12, 2024, 10:10:29 PM
Brown has taken his game to another level and is the clear MVP, but Jayson Tatum is leading all NBA players in +/- this postseason. He's been great.
Just my opinion, and I could be wrong, but I think +/- is a stat the NBA tried to translate from hockey, and it does not hold as much significance as it does in hockey.
Where did this idea come from that Tatum isn't a great player?
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 13, 2024, 04:18:05 AM
Just my opinion, and I could be wrong, but I think +/- is a stat the NBA tried to translate from hockey, and it does not hold as much significance as it does in hockey.
I think it's fallen out of favor with hockey stat-heads, too.
+/- is a flawed stat, but it directly refutes the idea that the Celtics "are legit better without [Tatum] even on the floor."
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 13, 2024, 07:40:59 AM
Where did this idea come from that Tatum isn't a great player?
It came out of nowhere this past week. Tatum is somebody people dislike for personal reasons that I don't understand. This year has seen the most absurd, short-sighted public reaction to an NBA playoffs I can remember.
Tyler, you probably hear it more because you follow the Celtics. I don't think "Tatum isn't that good" is much of a national viewpoint.
When the opposing coach in the NBA Finals goes out of his way to diminish the guy, that will resonate with some who don't follow the game that closely. Nevertheless, the national media votes him All-Pro every year.
I also have no clue why some might dislike Tatum. I don't know him, but he seems like a decent enough guy.
It comes from some media pushing the narrative that he's a top 5 player in the NBA (he's not, and he never has been), and then people went way overboard in pushing back on that. He's a great player, but not a tier 1 player. Nothing wrong with it, but he's been pretty average, relative to what a number 1 player on an NBA title team should be, this Playoffs. And he was bad in the 2022 Finals.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 12, 2024, 10:11:42 PM
Maybe the knee is contributing, but conditioning is a legit issue for him. Maybe the only thing holding him back from being the clear best player in basketball.
Also he's a short rectangle.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 13, 2024, 09:40:23 AM
It comes from some media pushing the narrative that he's a top 5 player in the NBA (he's not, and he never has been), and then people went way overboard in pushing back on that. He's a great player, but not a tier 1 player. Nothing wrong with it, but he's been pretty average, relative to what a number 1 player on an NBA title team should be, this Playoffs. And he was bad in the 2022 Finals.
Exactly this. And nowhere near Luka.
Great player. Needs a killer like Brown with him plus a great cast.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 13, 2024, 10:01:06 AM
Exactly this. And nowhere near Luka.
Great player. Needs a killer like Brown with him plus a great cast.
I've pimped Brown for 3+ years. I get he has had his issues dribbling, and at times in other playoff series, but he's better than his stats indicate. He's a true 2-Way player and is arguably as versatile a defender as there is in the NBA. Minnesota had the best statistical defense but couldn't guard Dallas at all. Boston's switchability led by Brown, is the reason this series has been one sided.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 13, 2024, 10:11:59 AM
I've pimped Brown for 3+ years. I get he has had his issues dribbling, and at times in other playoff series, but he's better than his stats indicate. He's a true 2-Way player and is arguably as versatile a defender as there is in the NBA. Minnesota had the best statistical defense but couldn't guard Dallas at all. Boston's switchability led by Brown, is the reason this series has been one sided.
The most versatile defender in the NBA? Have you not watched his teammate Jrue Holiday? Not to mention Giannis, Jimmy Butler, AD, Bam, OG, Evan Mobley, Draymond, Thybulle, Kawhi, Paul George....
Brown hasn't made a single All Defense Team (First or Second) in his career. He's a good defender. But he's not close to as good as you're claiming he is.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 13, 2024, 11:15:50 AM
The most versatile defender in the NBA? Have you not watched his teammate Jrue Holiday? Not to mention Giannis, Jimmy Butler, AD, Bam, OG, Evan Mobley, Draymond, Thybulle, Kawhi, Paul George....
Brown hasn't made a single All NBA Team (First or Second) in his career. He's a good defender. But he's not close to as good as you're claiming he is.
Pretty sure Muggsy has said Brown is the best SG in the NBA so that tracks.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 13, 2024, 09:40:23 AM
It comes from some media pushing the narrative that he's a top 5 player in the NBA (he's not, and he never has been), and then people went way overboard in pushing back on that. He's a great player, but not a tier 1 player. Nothing wrong with it, but he's been pretty average, relative to what a number 1 player on an NBA title team should be, this Playoffs. And he was bad in the 2022 Finals.
The media pushed the exact opposite—that he isn't a top tier player. I happen to agree that he falls just short of the first tier. Though second tier = great. We might be witnessing Jaylen Brown's own ascension to that second tier these playoffs.
Though, if you're including availability as a metric of overall player value (which I think you should, to an extent), I'd probably slot Tatum in at #5, over Embiid.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 13, 2024, 10:01:06 AM
Exactly this. And nowhere near Luka.
Great player. Needs a killer like Brown with him plus a great cast.
The notion that Brown is a "killer" is brand new. As in, born the past week or two. Check out his performance in the ECF last season. The narrative around him last offseason was questioning whether he was worth a max deal.
I also think saying Tatum needs a "killer plus a great cast" is an ironic criticism to include the same post where you say he's nowhere near Luka. How are these finals going for Luka? Seems like he might need a better cast.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 13, 2024, 07:40:59 AM
Where did this idea come from that Tatum isn't a great player?
I think it's people arguing minor differences in opinion more than anything. I think he's overrated as a top 5, all-nba guy. I don't like watching him play. He drifts and settles too much. It rarely feels like he's controlling a game. I've watched every Celtics playoff game and he's maddening often.
Then add in that Jaylen Brown tends to outperform him offensively in the playoffs from an efficiency standpoint with similar counting stats, while also defending the opposing team's best offensive player, and people have been questioning how good JT really is.
But even as someone with a lower opinion of his game, he's undoubtedly a top 10 guy. He's excellent. It's really just an argument about if JT is a top 5 or top 10 player, even if the people arguing don't really realize it.
EDIT: I see Wades beat me to it.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 13, 2024, 01:11:01 PM
The media pushed the exact opposite—that he isn't a top tier player. I happen to agree that he falls just short of the first tier. Though second tier = great. We might be witnessing Jaylen Brown's own ascension to that second tier these playoffs.
Though, if you're including availability as a metric of overall player value (which I think you should, to an extent), I'd probably slot Tatum in at #5, over Embiid.
Jaylen Brown has been better than JT in these playoffs in every series. I know 16 games doesn't change everything that's happened in their careers, but I do think it's clear that in these playoffs JB has been better than JT on both ends. But is more accomplished, for sure.
And we must follow different media members. Everything I've seen is talking about him as a top 4-5 guy in the league and I just don't see it.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 12, 2024, 10:11:42 PM
Maybe the knee is contributing, but conditioning is a legit issue for him. Maybe the only thing holding him back from being the clear best player in basketball.
Agreed here. Get healthy, get in better shape and he could be #1 next year. I think he does have a way to go to pass Jokic, but he's capable of it.
He has to fix his attitude, too. Though I don't think it's as big of a problem as it's portrayed to be.
Quote from: MU82 on June 13, 2024, 09:07:31 AM
Tyler, you probably hear it more because you follow the Celtics. I don't think "Tatum isn't that good" is much of a national viewpoint.
When the opposing coach in the NBA Finals goes out of his way to diminish the guy, that will resonate with some who don't follow the game that closely. Nevertheless, the national media votes him All-Pro every year.
I also have no clue why some might dislike Tatum. I don't know him, but he seems like a decent enough guy.
I'm actually not a Celtics fan, nor do I follow any Boston or Celtics media. My partner is a big fan and watches almost all of their games. Frankly I enjoy watching because they're a special team and have similarities to MU in how they approach offense and culture.
Regardless, I don't mean to overstate the prominence of the Tatum criticism—I think it's very new and I only replied because it made it into this thread. It mostly made the national media for a few days after the ECF because Zach Lowe made a public proclamation he wasn't a top five player.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 13, 2024, 01:16:53 PM
The notion that Brown is a "killer" is brand new. As in, born the past week or two. Check out his performance in the ECF last season. The narrative around him last offseason was questioning whether he was worth a max deal.
I also think saying Tatum needs a "killer plus a great cast" is an ironic criticism to include the same post where you say he's nowhere near Luka. How are these finals going for Luka? Seems like he might need a better cast.
Yeah he needs a better cast. He doesn't need the Celtics cast
You got some weird bars on for Tatum then make insane comps.
The mavs without Luka are legit a bottom 5 team in the NBA at best.
The Celtics without Tatum are still competing for home court in round 1 of the playoffs. It's a laughable comp.
Last night was a perfect example. The mavs were lost anytime Luka wasn't on the court. Brown went dog mode without Tatum and Celtics were fine.
Brown has the mentality.
And Tatum isn't in the same stratosphere as luka
Quote from: BM1090 on June 13, 2024, 01:20:42 PM
Jaylen Brown has been better than JT in these playoffs in every series. I know 16 games doesn't change everything that's happened in their careers, but I do think it's clear that in these playoffs JB has been better than JT on both ends. But is more accomplished, for sure.
And we must follow different media members. Everything I've seen is talking about him as a top 4-5 guy in the league and I just don't see it.
I don't disagree—Brown has been sensational. He earned ECF MVP and he's even more of a clear favorite for Finals MVP. JB has never played this well in his career and deserves all the credit he has coming to him.
Just to stoke the argument about top five a bit, here's my top ten. Thinking of this as whom I'd most like on my NBA team in the 2024-25 season, not necessarily who "deserves it" based solely on past accomplishment.
1). Nikola Jokic
2). Giannis Antetokounmpo
3). Luka Doncic
4). Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
5). Jayson Tatum
6). Joel Embiid
7). Victor Wembanyama
8). Jalen Brunson
9). Anthony Edwards
10). Kevin Durant
Deciding those last couple spots was really difficult. AD, LeBron, Steph, and Kawhi are all right there, but age/projected availability hurt them. Sabonis and maybe even JB could have a claim as well.
Pretty tough to decide 2-4 as well, those guys are a pretty solid tier for me. The Wemby placement may seem extreme, but I think he probably enters the MVP conversation his second season.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 13, 2024, 01:27:47 PM
Yeah he needs a better cast. He doesn't need the Celtics cast
You got some weird bars on for Tatum then make insane comps.
The mavs without Luka are legit a bottom 5 team in the NBA at best.
The Celtics without Tatum are still competing for home court in round 1 of the playoffs. It's a laughable comp.
Last night was a perfect example. The mavs were lost anytime Luka wasn't on the court. Brown went dog mode without Tatum and Celtics were fine.
Brown has the mentality.
And Tatum isn't in the same stratosphere as luka
Brown didn't have "the mentality" until this postseason. That's brand new, and I'm not at all confident he'll maintain it or that Tatum won't have it next time around.
Of course agree that the Celtics cast is better than the Mavs. I don't think the post-deadline Mavs would be a "bottom five" NBA team without Luka, but they would not be good. I think Luka has the unique trait to be able to carry an entire offense. For me, he needs to improve his defense and conditioning to be considered in another "stratosphere" as Tatum.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 13, 2024, 01:48:18 PM
Brown didn't have "the mentality" until this postseason. That's brand new, and I'm not at all confident he'll maintain it or that Tatum won't have it next time around.
Of course agree that the Celtics cast is better than the Mavs. I don't think the post-deadline Mavs would be a "bottom five" NBA team without Luka, but they would not be good. I think Luka has the unique trait to be able to carry an entire offense. For me, he needs to improve his defense and conditioning to be considered in another "stratosphere" as Tatum.
We've seen glimpses of the mentality, though. Game 2 against the Bucks in 2022 comes to mind. Of course, Tatum had the brilliant game 6 as well.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 13, 2024, 11:15:50 AM
The most versatile defender in the NBA? Have you not watched his teammate Jrue Holiday? Not to mention Giannis, Jimmy Butler, AD, Bam, OG, Evan Mobley, Draymond, Thybulle, Kawhi, Paul George....
Brown hasn't made a single All Defense Team (First or Second) in his career. He's a good defender. But he's not close to as good as you're claiming he is.
With all due respect , I don't think that means diddly squat. Minnesota has a 3 time DPY, another 1st teamer, and they literally couldn't guard Dallas. Holiday and White are excellent defenders, but Brown is much longer and heavier. The guy consistently plays great defense both on and off the ball. And he's doing this while exterting a lot of energy offensively as well. Doncic has not had good 4th Q's in this series. At all btw. Brown is a big reason why.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 13, 2024, 01:40:24 PM
I don't disagree—Brown has been sensational. He earned ECF MVP and he's even more of a clear favorite for Finals MVP. JB has never played this well in his career and deserves all the credit he has coming to him.
Just to stoke the argument about top five a bit, here's my top ten. Thinking of this as whom I'd most like on my NBA team in the 2024-25 season, not necessarily who "deserves it" based solely on past accomplishment.
1). Nikola Jokic
2). Giannis Antetokounmpo
3). Luka Doncic
4). Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
5). Jayson Tatum
6). Joel Embiid
7). Victor Wembanyama
8). Jalen Brunson
9). Anthony Edwards
10). Kevin Durant
Deciding those last couple spots was really difficult. AD, LeBron, Steph, and Kawhi are all right there, but age/projected availability hurt them. Sabonis and maybe even JB could have a claim as well.
Pretty tough to decide 2-4 as well, those guys are a pretty solid tier for me. The Wemby placement may seem extreme, but I think he probably enters the MVP conversation his second season.
Ja Morant?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 13, 2024, 06:48:07 PM
Nope. Not now.
Agreed. No reason from a talent perspective he shouldn't be in the mix, but he needs to find a way to stay on the court and realize his potential.
Sam needs to write a letter to Luka at halftime asking him to stop abusing him.
Sam is going to get a ring.
Quote from: tower912 on June 14, 2024, 08:41:08 PM
Sam is going to get a ring.
Will it come with an asterisk?
Sam's gonna get mucho garbage-time PT in this barn-burner.
Heck, maybe even OMax will get to play.
Good point about O-Max, let's get him in there!
He's playing; came in with about 5 1/2 minutes to play. Had his first shot blocked. Had a nice assist on a teammate's basket. Hasn't fallen down yet.
A couple MONSTER rebounds from O-Max.
This Boston team is not one of the all-time great NBA teams. Heck, several Celtics teams were better than this one. So I'm glad they not only lost but got their clocks cleaned, so we can get that silliness out of the way.
Quote from: MU82 on June 14, 2024, 10:11:48 PM
This Boston team is not one of the all-time great NBA teams. Heck, several Celtics teams were better than this one. So I'm glad they not only lost but got their clocks cleaned, so we can get that silliness out of the way.
Anyone that thinks this is an all-time team is a fool. Anything is possible in time but I don't see it.
I'd say they'll be an average to slightly above average champion that was abnormally superior to the rest of the league. A lot of parity in the NBA this season.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 15, 2024, 07:02:24 AM
Anyone that thinks this is an all-time team is a fool. Anything is possible in time but I don't see it.
This is why I'm not a big analytics guy. Because on paper, if they win it, they absolutely are.an all-time-team. Unless you have some Reeko definition of what that means.
Quote from: Jockey on June 14, 2024, 09:12:17 PM
Will it come with an asterisk?
Why? He's in their rotation.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 15, 2024, 10:17:57 AM
This is why I'm not a big analytics guy. Because on paper, if they win it, they absolutely are.an all-time-team. Unless you have some Reeko definition of what that means.
This team? All-time? Lol
Jayson Tatum (or Jaylen Brown) is their best player and Peyton Pritchard and Sam Hauser are in their rotation.
It's LOL funny thinking about them matching up with the KD era Warriors or the MJ era Bulls or the Magic era Lakers.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 15, 2024, 10:24:54 AM
This team? All-time? Lol
Don't we measure all-time teams by record during the regular season and playoffs? Personally, I don't think they ate but what exactly is your criteria?
Quote from: wadesworld on June 15, 2024, 10:30:23 AM
Jayson Tatum (or Jaylen Brown) is their best player and Peyton Pritchard and Sam Hauser are in their rotation.
Sam Hauser was a 42.4% three point shooter this season. Payton Pritchard was a highly efficient scorer and distributer who flashed in limited opportunities as the team's primary ball handler. There isn't a team in the NBA who wouldn't be giving minutes to both of them.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 15, 2024, 10:32:27 AM
Don't we measure all-time reams by record during the regular season and playoffs? Personally, I don't think they ate but what exactly is your criteria?
They didn't eat? The whole season?
Quote from: wadesworld on June 15, 2024, 10:30:23 AM
Jayson Tatum (or Jaylen Brown) is their best player and Peyton Pritchard and Sam Hauser are in their rotation.
It's LOL funny thinking about them matching up with the KD era Warriors or the MJ era Bulls or the Magic era Lakers.
I think you meant Curry-era Warriors. KD was there for the ride.
Quote from: Jockey on June 15, 2024, 11:00:50 AM
I think you meant Curry-era Warriors. KD was there for the ride.
Sure. But Curry's first and last title teams weren't close to as good as the 2 with KD.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 15, 2024, 10:32:27 AM
Don't we measure all-time reams by record during the regular season and playoffs?
Well, their .780 regular-season winning percentage is tied for 25th best in NBA history. So they weren't even one of the top 2 dozen teams by that measurement.
If they win Game 5 at home, their .842 playoff winning percentage will be the 10th best in NBA history. Even if one doesn't factor in them having benefited from an injury-depleted Eastern Conference, that doesn't scream "one of the greatest ever."
There's also the eye test and common-sense test. Would you say this Boston team is better than the Riley-coached 1984-85 Lakers of Kareem, Magic, Worthy and Scott - a team that capped its season by defeating an outstanding Celtics club in the NBA Finals? That team had worse winning percentages in both the regular season and playoffs than these Celtics. Is this Boston team better than the 1997-98 Jackson-coach Bulls of Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, etc?
If you think so, I worry about your judgment.
These Celtics are good. They did what they had to do, beating all the teams placed in front of them. They will have been worthy champions. But they are no more "all-time greats" than Jaylen Brown is an "all-time great." Not by any definition of "all-time great" that any serious person would use.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 15, 2024, 10:17:57 AM
On paper, if they win it, they absolutely are an all-time-team.
Not unless you smoke a ton of pot rolled up in the paper first.
Quote from: MU82 on June 15, 2024, 11:18:05 AM
Well, their .780 regular-season winning percentage is tied for 25th best in NBA history. So they weren't even one of the top 2 dozen teams by that measurement.
If they win Game 5 at home, their .842 playoff winning percentage will be the 10th best in NBA history. Even if one doesn't factor in them having benefited from an injury-depleted Eastern Conference, that doesn't scream "one of the greatest ever."
There's also the eye test and common-sense test. Would you say this Boston team is better than the Riley-coached 1984-85 Lakers of Kareem, Magic, Worthy and Scott - a team that capped its season by defeating an outstanding Celtics club in the NBA Finals? That team had worse winning percentages in both the regular season and playoffs than these Celtics. Is this Boston team better than the 1997-98 Jackson-coach Bulls of Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, etc?
If you think so, I worry about your judgment.
These Celtics are good. They did what they had to do, beating all the teams placed in front of them. They will have been worthy champions. But they are no more "all-time greats" than Jaylen Brown is an "all-time great." Not by any definition of "all-time great" that any serious person would use.
Not unless you smoke a ton of pot rolled up in the paper first.
They do have Joe Mazula as coach, so they have that going for them
The Athletic's John Hollinger mused about the upcoming draft:
I have seen all of the top players play in person and can assure you this year's class isn't good, especially at the top. That doesn't mean there won't be some significant players who eventually merge from it, but this reminds me a lot of the 2013 draft class where Anthony Bennett, Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Nerlens Noel and Ben McLemore were five of the top seven picks.
Facts are facts. However ...
The 2013 draft did produce Giannis, Rudy Gobert, CJ McCollum, Steven Adams and Kentavious Caldwell Pope, among others.
So there will be good players available again in 2024, and we'll know a couple/few years from now which were uncovered by which GM/scouting teams.
Does Dallas have any chance? I was thinking about watching the Beekeeper.
This looks over. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Doncic: No Show
Kyrie: No Show
End Result: Death
Very disappointing.
Hammer dropped. Wow.
The last time the Boston Celtics won the NBA Championship, Lehman Brothers declared bankruptcy and the global economy collapsed within 3 months.
Adjust your risk models accordingly.
Pretty sure da Bucks would reverse the Holiday/Lillard fiasco if they had the chance, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 18, 2024, 08:38:52 AM
Pretty sure da Bucks would reverse the Holiday/Lillard fiasco if they had the chance, hey?
I doubt it. They had a ton of trouble scoring in the two prior playoff defeats with Middleton falling off. They needed the scoring that Dame provided, but you have to give up something to get something.
The issues are they made a bad coaching decision and their best player got hurt heading into the playoffs. Let's see what happens next season.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 18, 2024, 08:49:05 AM
I doubt it. They had a ton of trouble scoring in the two prior playoff defeats with Middleton falling off. They needed the scoring that Dame provided, but you have to give up something to get something.
The issues are they made a bad coaching decision and their best player got hurt heading into the playoffs. Let's see what happens next season.
Exactly. And they gave themselves no time to build a roster that had Dame on it instead of Jrue. They made moves to add Malik and Cam Payne for scoring punch off of the bench with the assumption that everything else would stay the same, and then suddenly you trade your defensive stopper for all offense and your roster just doesn't make sense.
It's a big offseason for Horst. His drafting has sucked and it's not the best draft, plus he has no cap space for anything other than vet minimums. So he'll have to be creative. But he has a chance to build a roster that actually fits having Dame on it now.
The Bucks are nowhere near the level they were playing at in '21. On both ends of the floor. Boston's defense (without Porzingas) is light years ahead of Milwaukee. Now, clearly losing Holiday hurt, but the Bucks do not really have wing defenders at all other than Giannis. And even Giannis is really most comfortable as an interior and help defender.
Right now I think they're clearly behind Boston, NY, Philly, and Indy in the East. They need to make drastic changes to put it mildly.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 18, 2024, 09:34:50 AM
The Bucks are nowhere near the level they were playing at in '21. On both ends of the floor. Boston's defense (without Porzingas) is light years ahead of Milwaukee. Now, clearly losing Holiday hurt, but the Bucks do not really have wing defenders at all other than Giannis. And even Giannis is really most comfortable as an interior and help defender.
Right now I think they're clearly behind Boston, NY, Philly, and Indy in the East. They need to make drastic changes to put it mildly.
They only team they are clearly behind is Boston.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 18, 2024, 09:42:16 AM
They only team they are clearly behind is Boston.
Yup. Although we didn't get either side playing at full strength during the regular season, so who knows what it might have looked like.
Doc is assembling a really good staff, and hopefully they can figure some things out with a full offseason.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 18, 2024, 09:23:02 AM
Exactly. And they gave themselves no time to build a roster that had Dame on it instead of Jrue. They made moves to add Malik and Cam Payne for scoring punch off of the bench with the assumption that everything else would stay the same, and then suddenly you trade your defensive stopper for all offense and your roster just doesn't make sense.
It's a big offseason for Horst. His drafting has sucked and it's not the best draft, plus he has no cap space for anything other than vet minimums. So he'll have to be creative. But he has a chance to build a roster that actually fits having Dame on it now.
Horst hasn't had a decent draft pick since Donte, but he's been at the bottom of round one if he even had a pick. It's not as though there were obvious misses.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 18, 2024, 10:14:01 AM
Horst hasn't had a decent draft pick since Donte, but he's been at the bottom of round one if he even had a pick. It's not as though there were obvious misses.
His first pick was DJ Wilson and I think everyone in the world knew that was a horrible pick. I hated the MarJon pick and I think that also surprised a lot of people. But yeah the rest are just not having any picks to use.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 18, 2024, 10:25:48 AM
His first pick was DJ Wilson and I think everyone in the world knew that was a horrible pick. I hated the MarJon pick and I think that also surprised a lot of people. But yeah the rest are just not having any picks to use.
Ah. I didn't think DJ was his choice. Yeah that wasn't great.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 18, 2024, 09:42:16 AM
They only team they are clearly behind is Boston.
Ya....I completely disagree with you.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 18, 2024, 06:17:22 PM
Ya....I completely disagree with you.
So you think the team they took to 6 (who also went to the ECF) with Giannis playing 0 seconds and Dame missing 2.5 games is "clearly ahead" of the Bucks? The Bucks would have the 2 best players and 3 of the 4 best players in a series against them if healthy.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 18, 2024, 06:52:33 PM
So you think the team they took to 6 (who also went to the ECF) with Giannis playing 0 seconds and Dame missing 2.5 games is "clearly ahead" of the Bucks? The Bucks would have the 2 best players and 3 of the 4 best players in a series against them if healthy.
They don't defend and aren't getting any younger.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 18, 2024, 06:17:22 PM
Ya....I completely disagree with you.
Well, you're wrong. They finished a game behind the Knicks, ahead of the Sixers, and would have beat the Pacers with Giannis.
But they're "clearly behind" those teams? Typical Muggsy, terrible take.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 18, 2024, 06:58:27 PM
Well, you're wrong. They finished a game behind the Knicks, ahead of the Sixers, and would have beat the Pacers with Giannis.
But they're "clearly behind" those teams? Typical Muggsy, terrible take.
Oh and here are the odds to win the title next year.
https://www.espn.com/espn/betting/story/_/id/40379566/nba-championship-odds-2024-25-betting-favorites
Bucks: 10-1
Knicks: 16-1
Sixers: 16-1
Pacers: 33-1
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 18, 2024, 06:58:27 PM
Well, you're wrong. They finished a game behind the Knicks, ahead of the Sixers, and would have beat the Pacers with Giannis.
But they're "clearly behind" those teams? Typical Muggsy, terrible take.
You don't know that at all. This team is old. They are nowhere near competing for a title as they currently stand. That's all that matters.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 18, 2024, 07:01:07 PM
You don't know that at all. This team is old. They are nowhere near competing for a title as they currently stand. That's all that matters.
Strike two. Of course they compete for a title as they currently stand. Do I think they will win it? Probably not. But saying they can't compete is insane.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 18, 2024, 07:02:45 PM
Strike two. Of course they compete for a title as they currently stand. Do I think they will win it? Probably not. But saying they can't compete is insane.
You're whistling dixie here Fluffy.
They're slow as molasses, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 18, 2024, 07:03:53 PM
They're slow as molasses, hey?
I have eyes. Thay can't guard and this is a severe problem.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 18, 2024, 07:03:50 PM
You're whistling dixie here Fluffy.
Strike three.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 18, 2024, 07:10:35 PM
Strike three.
You lack foresight. This team hasn't won a playoff series in quite some time. Again, they're not getting younger.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 18, 2024, 07:12:09 PM
You lack foresight. This team hasn't won a playoff series in quite some time. Again, they're not getting younger.
Yes, you keep repeating this. You're still wrong. They aren't "clearly behind" anyone but the Celtics.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 18, 2024, 07:17:24 PM
Yes, you keep repeating this. You're still wrong. They aren't "clearly behind" anyone but the Celtics.
So you would just run this team back as it stands?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 18, 2024, 07:19:03 PM
So you would just run this team back as it stands?
No. No team runs back as it stands. Any changes will be on the fringe however.
Peddle #34 while he's got some value, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 18, 2024, 07:56:16 PM
Peddle #34 while he's got some value, aina?
I like this. Last time you said it, the Bucks were champs a few months later.
That post might have been a joke, but there is no "selling high" on top-tier players like Giannis in the NBA. It isn't realistically possible to return value that high in a trade with how the league is structured economically. That's why you only ever see it when the Durants and Lillards of the league force their teams' hands. The Bucks are extraordinarily lucky to have Giannis under contract.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 19, 2024, 01:17:44 AM
That post might have been a joke, but there is no "selling high" on top-tier players like Giannis in the NBA. It isn't realistically possible to return value that high in a trade with how the league is structured economically. That's why you only ever see it when the Durants and Lillards of the league force their teams' hands. The Bucks are extraordinarily lucky to have Giannis under contract.
4elder isn't what we call, "sports savvy"
Meanwhile Jon Horst sucks ass, hey?
The truth is that it doesn't really matter if they are 2-5 in the East. They aren't remotely close to competing with Boston. And the fact remains that if you have a prime Giannis, a top 3 player in the league, the only goal is winning chips. The guy is turning 30 early next season. The opportunities are dwindling and he's had trouble staying healthy. If you essentially keep this team in tack, with minor tweaking, the result will be losing before the NBA Finals 100/100 times. They're obviously in a difficult situation but no rational person that wants to compete for a title would essentially run it back.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 19, 2024, 08:17:59 AM
The truth is that it doesn't really matter if they are 2-5 in the East. They aren't remotely close to competing with Boston. And the fact remains that if you have a prime Giannis, a top 3 player in the league, the only goal is winning chips. The guy is turning 30 early next season. The opportunities are dwindling and he's had trouble staying healthy. If you essentially keep this team in tack, with minor tweaking, the result will be losing before the NBA Finals 100/100 times. They're obviously in a difficult situation but no rational person that wants to compete for a title would essentially run it back.
Nor would you trade Giannis
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 19, 2024, 08:23:05 AM
Nor would you trade Giannis
Of course not. I think he was joking.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 19, 2024, 08:17:59 AM
The truth is that it doesn't really matter if they are 2-5 in the East. They aren't remotely close to competing with Boston.
lol. Nice goalpost shift.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 19, 2024, 08:36:23 AM
lol. Nice goalpost shift.
Do you think Giannis cates if he's 2nd or 5th in the East?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 19, 2024, 08:50:46 AM
Do you think Giannis cates if he's 2nd or 5th in the East?
No. But nice goalpost shift. Clearly you saw my wisdom and adjusted accordingly.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 19, 2024, 08:50:46 AM
Do you think Giannis cates if he's 2nd or 5th in the East?
He probably wants to be 5th in the East at least marginally less than he wants to be 2nd.
Monty Williams with a pretty decent severance package.
Monopoly money when you can chitcan da coach and still owe him $65 mil, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 19, 2024, 12:26:26 PM
Monopoly money when you can chitcan da coach and still owe him $65 mil, hey?
I'm confident I could lose 68 games for considerably less money.
Hearing Monty is looking at property in Park City.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 19, 2024, 08:03:47 PM
Hearing Monty is looking at property in Park City.
Don't the Lakers make sense here? Since
they think they are a championship roster, a veteran HC like Monty has to be a better choice than JJ.
If I were Monty, I would just cash checks next year.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 20, 2024, 08:18:22 AM
Don't the Lakers make sense here? Since they think they are a championship roster, a veteran HC like Monty has to be a better choice than JJ.
The problem there is that Monty doesn't already have a podcast with LeBron James.
fify
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 20, 2024, 08:45:01 AM
If I were Monty, I would just cash checks next year. (https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExd2wwbWZwdmE2Nm5ucm9menRvYjlkeHlpcGx5MzZlbDloeWYyMXlhYSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/hEwkspP1OllJK/giphy.gif)
@wojespn
BREAKING: The Chicago Bulls are trading two-time All-Defensive guard Alex Caruso to the Oklahoma City Thunder for guard Josh Giddey, sources tell ESPN.
Good deal for both teams.
Quote from: Jockey on June 20, 2024, 06:47:43 PM
Good deal for both teams.
That's how it struck me too. The Bulls are in a spot where it benefits them to turn a solid but unspectacular player like Caruso into higher upside plays.
Quote from: Jockey on June 20, 2024, 06:47:43 PM
Good deal for both teams.
Yep.
Bulls need to burn it all down and start over with younger players. Everyone but Coby White, Julian Phillips, Adama Sanogo and maybe Ayo should be on the block, with little concern about maximizing trade value. It'll be addition by subtraction.
Yeah it's the previous offers of multiple picks for in season vs a player that can't shoot and probably should be in legal trouble that's pretty hard to stomach
Excellent pick-up for OKC. Giddey has some potential but who knows if the Bulls will be able to sign him after his contract is up.
Oh... I didn't see the Bulls got a 1st rd draft pick as well. Good trade for both teams.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 20, 2024, 07:10:50 PM
Excellent pick-up for OKC. Giddey has some potential but who knows if the Bulls will be able to sign him after his contract is up.
Oh... I didn't see the Bulls got a 1st rd draft pick as well. Good trade for both teams.
They didn't get a pick
Giddey is a pedophile.
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on June 20, 2024, 07:10:39 PM
Yeah it's the previous offers of multiple picks for in season vs a player that can't shoot and probably should be in legal trouble that's pretty hard to stomach
Yeah I just saw on the cbssports.com write up that there are rumors a team had offered a top 10 pick for Caruso. If that's true, it would be malpractice to take Giddey over the pick for contract reasons alone
Quote from: Skatastrophy on June 20, 2024, 08:08:14 PM
Giddey is a pedophile.
Didn't know he was an evangelical Christian
Also, OKC is stocked with picks. I'm surprised they didn't get one. This feels like they sold low.
Quote from: MUBurrow on June 20, 2024, 08:08:31 PM
Yeah I just saw on the cbssports.com write up that there are rumors a team had offered a top 10 pick for Caruso. If that's true, it would be malpractice to take Giddey over the pick for contract reasons alone
The rumor is that a team that ended up with a top 10 pick offered the Bulls a first during the season. Bulls decided to keep him in hopes of making a run instead.
Hindsight says not a smart move, but that's significantly different than someone offering them a top 10 pick today.
Rumors are the Bulls made the trade in advance of buying out Ball. Ball's basketball future doesn't look good.
Would you rather have Giddey or Reed Sheppard? Because I'm taking Giddey.
Mavs begged Giddey to shoot in their series, they left him open every time. He ended up getting benched in that series as well.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on June 20, 2024, 11:34:12 PM
Mavs begged Giddey to shoot in their series, they left him open every time. He ended up getting benched in that series as well.
He's 21 years old with loads of upside.
Young players can become better shooters, but you can't teach 6"8" with point guard akills.
Its definitely possible Giddey never reach his ceiling, but trading 30-year-old bench players for that kind of a high-upside big swing is exactly what the Bulls should be doing. Hoping Caruso is just the first veteran shipped out.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 21, 2024, 07:52:40 AM
He's 21 years old with loads of upside.
Young players can become better shooters, but you can't teach 6"8" with point guard akills.
Its definitely possible Giddey never reach his ceiling, but trading 30-year-old bench players for that kind of a high-upside big swing is exactly what the Bulls should be doing. Hoping Caruso is just the first veteran shipped out.
100%, Dude is a 14-7-6 guy at 21 years old. This the first year Caruso averaged over 10 points a game. Caruso was not going to help the Bulls reach the next level. Giddey might.
Quote from: lawdog77 on June 21, 2024, 07:58:36 AM
100%, Dude is a 14-7-6 guy at 21 years old. This the first year Caruso averaged over 10 points a game. Caruso was not going to help the Bulls reach the next level. Giddey might.
The Bulls are getting worked over in Chicago and in the national media for this trade. And it makes sense, because the GM has lost literally every trade in his career. This maybe a good deal for the Bulls, but they have lost all credibility and people will rightly question everything they do.
Add to it that the Bulls could not land a single draft pick from OKC and apparently OKC offered a top 10 pick for Caruso a few months ago and this is where the Bulls let it get to. So even if you like the trade for the Bulls, it is not as good as it could have been.
The Bulls are a bad organization so this it what is going to happen.
Quote from: Jockey on June 20, 2024, 09:09:32 PM
Proof?
His social media post with a high school girl saying he's outside the club with his girl and headed back to his place.
That's where it ends though. Cops investigated no charges. There's a NY Post article with a bunch of wild speculation if you'd like to read a tabloid on it tho
IDK, this sounds like Chicago sports radio nonsense to me. This is a bad draft, so Giddey may have more upside than they are going to get with a pick. His numbers haven't been terrible.
But more importantly, what is Alex Caruso going to do for the Bulls? He is a UFA after this next year and they aren't going anywhere. So he may have been gone anyway.
This sounds very much like meatheads over-valuing the hustly guy off the bench.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 21, 2024, 08:15:40 AM
The Bulls are getting worked over in Chicago and in the national media for this trade. And it makes sense, because the GM has lost literally every trade in his career. This maybe a good deal for the Bulls, but they have lost all credibility and people will rightly question everything they do.
Add to it that the Bulls could not land a single draft pick from OKC and apparently OKC offered a top 10 pick for Caruso a few months ago and this is where the Bulls let it get to. So even if you like the trade for the Bulls, it is not as good as it could have been.
The Bulls are a bad organization so this it what is going to happen.
OKC doesn't have a top 10 pick, so I'm not sure how they could have offered one for Caruso.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 21, 2024, 08:23:10 AM
OKC doesn't have a top 10 pick, so I'm not sure how they could have offered one for Caruso.
WhiteTrash blasts everything the Bulls or any team for that matter in Chicago do. They could get Jokic, Doncic, Ant and Wemby for Lavine and he'd say it's a bad deal
Quote from: Skatastrophy on June 21, 2024, 08:18:05 AM
His social media post with a high school girl saying he's outside the club with his girl and headed back to his place.
That's where it ends though. Cops investigated no charges. There's a NY Post article with a bunch of wild speculation if you'd like to read a tabloid on it tho
That's not at all how I recall it going down.
Source?
Quote from: Pakuni on June 21, 2024, 08:23:10 AM
OKC doesn't have a top 10 pick, so I'm not sure how they could have offered one for Caruso.
I believe they were talking about the pick that ended up being #12. I didn't research it, it may have been top 10 at the trade deadline.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 21, 2024, 08:25:40 AM
WhiteTrash blasts everything the Bulls or any team for that matter in Chicago do. They could get Jokic, Doncic, Ant and Wemby for Lavine and he'd say it's a bad deal
Have you followed the NBA and Bulls the past 5 years? Please point out 3 or 4 moves the Bulls have made that were very good.
I pointed out that most fans and NBA people think the Bulls lost the trade. I didn't really bash the trade. From a macro prospective the move makes sense, but only if they continue to unload old and expensive players. If the Bulls sit pat and resign DeRozen then they will be slightly worse than last year with Giddy.
Look, OKC had the Bulls over a barrel since they are desperate for a PG with the "shocking" news Ball will not play again. Just poor management.
For the record, no bashing of the Cubs or Hawks (liking the direction), I applauded the tank and rebuild of the Bears (thumbs up on Williams). And as we sit here today the Sox have a real opportunity to have the worst record in the 150 year history of MLB (not bashing them would be disingenuous)
Actually, a number of Bulls followers love the trade. Caruso wasn't going to help them at all next year, but now they have someone who is a playmaker.
And anyway, how can you tell if a team won or lost a trade less than 24 hours after it happens....in June? That's just nonsense to get headlines.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 21, 2024, 08:57:30 AM
Actually, a number of Bulls followers love the trade. Caruso wasn't going to help them at all next year, but now they have someone who is a playmaker.
And anyway, how can you tell if a team won or lost a trade less than 24 hours after it happens....in June? That's just nonsense to get headlines.
I would agree with this. My original point was that the Bulls' GM's history is so bad, the default reaction is to assume it was a bad deal and I think that is a reasonable assumption. He has to prove everyone is wrong by actually having one of his moves work.
Let's not forget that a number of MU followers thought Wojo was going to turn the corner and fans that did not trust that would happen were MU haters. At some point
you are who your record says you are.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 21, 2024, 08:30:19 AM
That's not at all how I recall it going down.
Source?
Sorry I'm hosting people today so here's the quick version. They doxxed the girl in this (shitty YouTuber) video and she was 15 at the time
https://youtube.com/shorts/gCWa26BFDqw?si=OYeyjWFkqrvJu0eh
Here's one of the la times articles about the initial investigation. You can probably find the later ones with the cops saying they closed the investigation no comment.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-11-28/nba-josh-giddey-newport-beach-police-investigation-relationship-with-minor-alleged
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 21, 2024, 09:11:20 AM
I would agree with this. My original point was that the Bulls' GM's history is so bad, the default reaction is to assume it was a bad deal and I think that is a reasonable assumption. He has to prove everyone is wrong by actually having one of his moves work.
Let's not forget that a number of MU followers thought Wojo was going to turn the corner and fans that did not trust that would happen were MU haters. At some point you are who your record says you are.
The Bulls have been a mess for a long time, so if some fans are skeptical/cynical of front office moves, that's entirely fair. But simply putting
this particular trade on blast not because of the actual merits of the deal, but because of past transactions, is kind of dumb.
It's entirely possible Giddey is who he is. It's also possible that 21-year-old players continue to grow and develop in the league. We know that because we see it all the time. What was Jaylen Brown three years into the league? Or Dejounte Murray? Or even Jalen Brunson and Julius Randle?
Not suggesting Giddey will ever reach those heights, but that guys aren't finished products three years in, especially not at 21 years old.
Whether it works out or not, I like that the Bulls are taking a big swing on upside in exchange for a 30-year-old bench player who was part of a core group that clearly wasn't working and who has no chance of being around if/when the Bulls can rebuild into a playoff-caliber team again.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 21, 2024, 10:13:55 AM
The Bulls have been a mess for a long time, so if some fans are skeptical/cynical of front office moves, that's entirely fair. But simply putting this particular trade on blast not because of the actual merits of the deal, but because of past transactions, is kind of dumb.
It's entirely possible Giddey is who he is. It's also possible that 21-year-old players continue to grow and develop in the league. We know that because we see it all the time. What was Jaylen Brown three years into the league? Or Dejounte Murray? Or even Jalen Brunson and Julius Randle?
Not suggesting Giddey will ever reach those heights, but that guys aren't finished products three years in, especially not at 21 years old.
Whether it works out or not, I like that the Bulls are taking a big swing on upside in exchange for a 30-year-old bench player who was part of a core group that clearly wasn't working and who has no chance of being around if/when the Bulls can rebuild into a playoff-caliber team again.
Because of the terrible state of the team, this is a gamble that should be made. To be fair, while AC is a bench (sometimes starter) player, he is an All-NBA Defensive Team member, so not your average bench guy.
If the Bulls continue to cull the old and over-paid players, this trade make even more sense and not one to be trashed. Otherwise it like getting a B in gym in a reportcard full of Ds and Fs.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 20, 2024, 09:45:55 PM
The rumor is that a team that ended up with a top 10 pick offered the Bulls a first during the season. Bulls decided to keep him in hopes of making a run instead.
Hindsight says not a smart move, but that's significantly different than someone offering them a top 10 pick today.
Ah, okay, that makes sense and I agree. Thanks for the background.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 20, 2024, 10:57:52 PM
Would you rather have Giddey or Reed Sheppard? Because I'm taking Giddey.
In a vaccuum? Giddey. If I have to extend Giddey next year vs having Sheppard on the first year of a rookie deal? Sheppard.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 21, 2024, 07:52:40 AM
He's 21 years old with loads of upside.
Young players can become better shooters, but you can't teach 6"8" with point guard akills.
Its definitely possible Giddey never reach his ceiling, but trading 30-year-old bench players for that kind of a high-upside big swing is exactly what the Bulls should be doing. Hoping Caruso is just the first veteran shipped out.
Sure, that's fine and all, but what I said though wasn't wrong.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on June 21, 2024, 12:37:39 PM
Sure, that's fine and all, but what I said though wasn't wrong.
He did shoot 9-18 from 3 in the series before that.
I believe Giddey has more triple doubles than anyone in Bulls history not named Jordan or Pippen. Probably pass Pippen this year.
And he's 21.
Quote from: Jockey on June 21, 2024, 12:56:46 PM
I believe Giddey has more triple doubles than anyone in Bulls history not named Jordan or Pippen. Probably pass Pippen this year.
And he's 21.
And OKC's GM said they were putting him on the bench next year.
Giddy is a fine NBA player with some potential upside. Nothing more or less. What he is not, is a good shooter or defender. Even at 6'8" he is stuck as a PG.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 21, 2024, 02:26:22 PM
And OKC's GM said they were putting him on the bench next year.
Giddy is a fine NBA player with some potential upside. Nothing more or less. What he is not, is a good shooter or defender. Even at 6'8" he is stuck as a PG.
Is being a 6'8" point guard a negative?
Ranks among his draft class:
Points - 6th
Rebounds - 4th
Assists - 1st
WIn Shares - 9th
VORP - 4th
Box +/- 8th
Quote from: Pakuni on June 21, 2024, 03:23:39 PM
Is being a 6'8" point guard a negative?
Ranks among his draft class:
Points - 6th
Rebounds - 4th
Assists - 1st
WIn Shares - 9th
VORP - 4th
Box +/- 8th
6'8" PG is great. Being able to play SG and SF would be better, right? Can't afford to have SG or SF who can't shoot. He is good with the ball and disturbing. Better than Coby White who is a short SG.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 21, 2024, 06:54:15 PM
He is good with the ball and disturbing.
Hopefully doesn't get in trouble for disturbing the peace. He's already had one bad brush with the law.
Quote from: MU82 on June 21, 2024, 07:06:07 PM
Hopefully doesn't get in trouble for disturbing the peace. He's already had one bad brush with the law.
;D
Stupid tablet keyboard :(
Giddey is also gonna spend the summer getting A LOT of minutes on a really good Olympic team. Something that won't hurt his development at all
Like WhiteTrash, I detest the Bulls front office/organization, but I don't think you can expect a much better return for Alex Caruso. A lottery pick in this year's draft probably doesn't carry as much value as Giddey.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on June 22, 2024, 01:40:12 AM
Like WhiteTrash, I detest the Bulls front office/organization, but I don't think you can expect a much better return for Alex Caruso. A lottery pick in this year's draft probably doesn't carry as much value as Giddey.
But Tyler COLEk, that would give the Bulls a better chance at drafting Tyler Kolek. :D
The Bulls need to start over. WT has stated this for years. Giddey doesn't exactly move the needle despite having some potential at 21.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 22, 2024, 11:23:58 AM
The Bulls need to start over. WT has stated this for years. Giddey doesn't exactly move the needle despite having some potential at 21.
This IS starting over. Who the hell do you think they're gonna get for Alex Caruso?
I cannot believe the Bulls accepted less than Gilgeous-Alexander and three 1st-round picks.
I mean, Caruso was second-team all-defense, and he's got a very shiny bald head!
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 22, 2024, 11:23:58 AM
The Bulls need to start over. WT has stated this for years. Giddey doesn't exactly move the needle despite having some potential at 21.
Giddey is a solid NBA player. If he improves on his deficiencies - not exactly unheard of for a player his age - he can become a good NBA player. But even if he doesn't, the Bulls still added a solid, young rotational piece in exchange for a guy who doesn't figure in the franchise's future.
It's exactly the kind of deal teams starting over make.
Now, they need to follow up by moving on from Lavine, DeRozan and Vuc.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 22, 2024, 01:02:54 PM
Giddey is a solid NBA player. If he improves on his deficiencies - not exactly unheard of for a player his age - he can become a good NBA player. But even if he doesn't, the Bulls still added a solid, young rotational piece in exchange for a guy who doesn't figure in the franchise's future.
It's exactly the kind of deal teams starting over make.
Now, they need to follow up by moving on from Lavine, DeRozan and Vuc.
#FailforFlagg
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 22, 2024, 11:36:13 AM
This IS starting over. Who the hell do you think they're gonna get for Alex Caruso?
Normally I'd agree with you but I'll let the offseason play out because with the Bulls any move is possible.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 22, 2024, 01:02:54 PM
Giddey is a solid NBA player. If he improves on his deficiencies - not exactly unheard of for a player his age - he can become a good NBA player. But even if he doesn't, the Bulls still added a solid, young rotational piece in exchange for a guy who doesn't figure in the franchise's future.
It's exactly the kind of deal teams starting over make.
Now, they need to follow up by moving on from Lavine, DeRozan and Vuc.
I think Giddey's floor is Ricky Rubio who couldn't score either (career 38/32/85 shooting splits) but was a very productive PG/offense orchestrator for 12 years. Giddey is 6 inches taller and already a better overall scorer. There are FAR worse pieces to build around at the 1
Honest questions here:
1. How many college teams would not hire JJ Reddick as their coach? 50-75?
2. How many college teams would Bronny not start on? 30-40?
Obviously, this came to my mind since it is very possible both will be part of the Lakers. Maybe the Lakers are playing 5D chess and the rest of the basketball world is playing checkers?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 24, 2024, 08:09:11 AM
Honest questions here:
1. How many college teams would not hire JJ Reddick as their coach? 50-75?
2. How many college teams would Bronny not start on? 30-40?
Obviously, this came to my mind since it is very possible both will be part of the Lakers. Maybe the Lakers are playing 5D chess and the rest of the basketball world is playing checkers?
The hand-wringing over Bronny is so weird.
If the Lakers or any other team uses a second-round pick on Bronny in order to land LeBron for a season or two, that's a fantastic use of a second-round pick. A 99% certainty to benefit your franchise more than using that pick on some other player.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 24, 2024, 09:27:47 AM
The hand-wringing over Bronny is so weird.
If the Lakers or any other team uses a second-round pick on Bronny in order to land LeBron for a season or two, that's a fantastic use of a second-round pick. A 99% certainty to benefit your franchise more than using that pick on some other player.
Yup. Bill Simmons's idea for the C's to take him at 30 and just hold him hostage is pretty funny. Make some team trade way more than Bronny is worth to the C's in order to get Bronny. Wouldn't be the worst play, given that the C's entire rotation is set for next year.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 24, 2024, 09:27:47 AM
The hand-wringing over Bronny is so weird.
If the Lakers or any other team uses a second-round pick on Bronny in order to land LeBron for a season or two, that's a fantastic use of a second-round pick. A 99% certainty to benefit your franchise more than using that pick on some other player.
Some people just want an excuse to rip Lebron
Quote from: Pakuni on June 24, 2024, 09:27:47 AM
The hand-wringing over Bronny is so weird.
If the Lakers or any other team uses a second-round pick on Bronny in order to land LeBron for a season or two, that's a fantastic use of a second-round pick. A 99% certainty to benefit your franchise more than using that pick on some other player.
I don't think hand-wringing is the correct term. Attention?
I think think the attention is warranted due to the absolutely unique situation and this is a family that craves and profits off attention (not a bad thing at all, I admire them). If people were not talking about Bronny, the James household would be the "hand-wringing capital of the world".
You may see actual hand-wringing & outrage by fans of a team that picks Bronny and has zero chance of landing LeBron. But I don't see that happening.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 24, 2024, 09:54:44 AM
Some people just want an excuse to rip Lebron
Who is ripping LeBron as it relates to Bronny? Just curious.
Draft week. Who does everyone want (and not want) their team to take in the Draft? Any predictions on who their team actually will take?
I want the Bucks to get 2 versatile 3 and D wing defenders, or guys who at least have the physicality and athleticism to turn into wing defenders. Guys like Terrence Shannon (not a lockdown defender, but I think he can turn into a plus defender), Kevin McCullar, Trey Alexander, and Pacome Dadiet. Would be okay with a more versatile big like Kel'el Ware or Yves Missi as well, but wouldn't be my first choice.
Don't want Edey (seen enough of a big that can only play 1 defensive system), Filipowski, Holmes (watching him against Arizona, he looked overmatched athletically guarding the perimeter), or Scheierman.
Knowing the Bucks, they'll grab Edey if he's around, but I don't think he will be. Which means I'll guess Filipowski and someone like Tyler Smith in the 2nd round.
Would love to see guys like Oso and Antonio Reeeves go undrafted and signed by the Bucks.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 24, 2024, 08:09:11 AM
Honest questions here:
1. How many college teams would not hire JJ Reddick as their coach? 50-75?
I think thats wholly irrelevant. The NBA is such a different animal and there are far more examples of guys stepping into NBA HC roles with no experience and having success than in college. That's not even factoring in the fact that he is Lebron's buddy.
While I've hated on Lebron the GM in the past, this actually is probably one of the most intriguing coaching power plays he's made. They have really good chemistry and hive mind from an Xs and Os standpoint that you can clearly see on the podcast. Plus they are both respected vets from the same era. If JJ gets a solid #2 on the bench, between the 3 of them, it could very well work.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 24, 2024, 09:27:47 AM
The hand-wringing over Bronny is so weird.
If the Lakers or any other team uses a second-round pick on Bronny in order to land LeBron for a season or two, that's a fantastic use of a second-round pick. A 99% certainty to benefit your franchise more than using that pick on some other player.
I think its just a by-product of the Bronny the lottery pick BS that was hot a few months ago. That has mostly dissipated so its not as justifiably annoying, but just further chatter.
If it was always just Bronny being a fringe 2nd round pick who would largely be picked to play with his Dad, there would be some haters obviously, but a lot less consternation. I think the McD AA out of nowhere into the "Bronny rising up the boards into the lottery hype" with no on the court merit to it is what annoyed people.
Carrington, Schiermann, McCullers , or Shannon.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 24, 2024, 10:30:10 AM
I think thats wholly irrelevant. The NBA is such a different animal and there are far more examples of guys stepping into NBA HC roles with no experience and having success than in college. That's not even factoring in the fact that he is Lebron's buddy.
While I've hated on Lebron the GM in the past, this actually is probably one of the most intriguing coaching power plays he's made. They have really good chemistry and hive mind from an Xs and Os standpoint that you can clearly see on the podcast. Plus they are both respected vets from the same era. If JJ gets a solid #2 on the bench, between the 3 of them, it could very well work.
That's fair.
Basically in LBJ career, the coach either gets fired or LeBron moves on.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 24, 2024, 01:59:29 PM
That's fair.
Basically in LBJ career, the coach either gets fired or LeBron moves on.
Basically in Giannis's career, the coach gets fired.
Quote from: Jockey on June 24, 2024, 04:10:07 PM
Basically in Giannis's career, the coach gets fired.
Basically the life of an NBA coach.
When the season opens in November, 14 of the 30 head coaches will have been on the job for two seasons or less.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 24, 2024, 09:27:47 AM
The hand-wringing over Bronny is so weird.
If the Lakers or any other team uses a second-round pick on Bronny in order to land LeBron for a season or two, that's a fantastic use of a second-round pick. A 99% certainty to benefit your franchise more than using that pick on some other player.
If you get LeBron with Bronny it's a really good deal. If LeBron goes with somebody else and just has his team wait until Bronny gets cut to pick him up it's a total waste - like many 2nd rounders are anyway.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 20, 2024, 09:45:55 PM
The rumor is that a team that ended up with a top 10 pick offered the Bulls a first during the season. Bulls decided to keep him in hopes of making a run instead.
Hindsight says not a smart move, but that's significantly different than someone offering them a top 10 pick today.
According to an article in the Athletic Sacramento offered the #13 pick as the main piece to the Bulls for Caruso and the Bulls said no.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2024, 05:19:39 PM
According to an article in the Athletic Sacramento offered the #13 pick as the main piece to the Bulls for Caruso and the Bulls said no.
Is the 13th pick better than Giddey? I dont think it is in this draft
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 24, 2024, 05:19:39 PM
According to an article in the Athletic Sacramento offered the #13 pick as the main piece to the Bulls for Caruso and the Bulls said no.
In that case, I don't think the Bulls chose unwisely. The #13 pick could end up a better player, but it's maybe 50-50 ... and maybe worse, given the team's recent track record and the perceived weakness of this draft class.
The best argument for the pick is that you don't have to give him a huge raise in the next year or two, as they will if they want to keep Giddey. But if the Bulls are going into a rebuild - please, go into a rebuild - money/cap space won't be an issue.
He who hires, can also fire, aina?
The Bulls let Pat Williams become a RFA. Will the Bucks be among the dozens of $200M contract offers he will get?
someone doesn't want jj to be Lakers coach. a little late and i'm sure this was looked in to prior to offering him Uber Millions, I hope. this is why some people just prefer to stay where they are rather than find out all the "misdeeds' they've committed going back as far as kindergarten
https://www.outkick.com/sports/black-woman-claims-jj-redick-called-her-n-word-college-20-years-ago-no-proof
I doubt it was looked into because it's only source is a Twitter post from after he was hired.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 25, 2024, 08:18:56 PM
I doubt it was looked into because it's only source is a Twitter post from after he was hired.
well that sounds real credible...why now?? if it were that big of a deal, one would've thought it should have been addressed, oh, maybe 18 years go
Knicks really embracing that Nova New York thing
https://x.com/wojespn/status/1805782619382063592?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 25, 2024, 09:02:54 PM
Knicks really embracing that Nova New York thing
https://x.com/wojespn/status/1805782619382063592?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
I like Bridges, but holy smokes is that a lot to give up for him.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 25, 2024, 09:12:09 PM
I like Bridges, but holy smokes is that a lot to give up for him.
That is crazy. Knicks being Knicks I guess.
They could have gotten LaVine for 1 first round pick. Maybe less.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 25, 2024, 09:12:09 PM
I like Bridges, but holy smokes is that a lot to give up for him.
Spot-on Pakuni.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 25, 2024, 09:37:34 PM
That is crazy. Knicks being Knicks I guess.
They could have gotten LaVine for 1 first round pick. Maybe less.
Bridges is a way better player.
Draft picks aren't as important as they used to be. So much money around that you can add pieces via free agency.
Knicks gonna trade thibs to get back picks and offer Jay??
now we know why OG opted out. Not sure who is a better fit in Thibs system. OG or Bridges. OG shot a better percentage from 2 and 3. Defensively, I am too lazy to look up advanced stats.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 25, 2024, 08:45:02 PM
well that sounds real credible...why now?? if it were that big of a deal, one would've thought it should have been addressed, oh, maybe 18 years go
It's one tweet that's gained no traction except for the site you linked to.
There is more controversy about him saying "f*ck" during his introductory press conference than there is this.
Quote from: Jockey on June 25, 2024, 10:38:29 PM
Bridges is a way better player.
Draft picks aren't as important as they used to be. So much money around that you can add pieces via free agency.
He's a better player but he's not worth what the Knicks are giving up.
Quote from: Jockey on June 25, 2024, 10:38:29 PM
Bridges is a way better player.
Draft picks aren't as important as they used to be. So much money around that you can add pieces via free agency.
I'll admit I am not a fan of LaVine, as a player (seems to be a good guy), but he is a top 75 player in the NBA and teams are not willing to part with draft choices for him. Seems a lot of teams still value picks highly. But to your point, maybe not as highly as before but they still place high value on them.
I agree that Bridges is better than LaVine, but is he 4 first round picks better? Maybe.
LaVine has come to be viewed as a player who doesn't make his team better. I've seen some "insiders" say that he actually is a net negative.
One might or might not agree with that assessment, but that's his rep.
The Knicks GM needs to go to a Villanova anonymous meeting or something
Quote from: MU82 on June 26, 2024, 07:52:38 AM
LaVine has come to be viewed as a player who doesn't make his team better. I've seen some "insiders" say that he actually is a net negative.
One might or might not agree with that assessment, but that's his rep.
Why would someone say that about a player that has only made the playoffs once in his career? ;)
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 26, 2024, 07:57:44 AM
The Knicks GM needs to go to a Villanova anonymous meeting or something
LOL, I would agree but it seems to be working for him. Right?
Am I mathing right? KD gets flipped for what turns out to be 9 firsts?
Quote from: Its DJOver on June 26, 2024, 08:07:51 AM
Am I mathing right? KD gets flipped for what turns out to be 9 firsts?
I just read that about 20 seconds ago on The Athletic site.
Quote from: MU82 on June 26, 2024, 08:22:46 AM
I just read that about 20 seconds ago on The Athletic site.
And Houston becomes the 6th seed in the West?
Quote from: Jockey on June 25, 2024, 10:38:29 PM
Bridges is a way better player.
Draft picks aren't as important as they used to be. So much money around that you can add pieces via free agency.
He's better. He's not four first-round picks better.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 26, 2024, 09:28:55 AM
He's better. He's not four first-round picks better.
In the old days, no. Not even close.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 26, 2024, 07:58:49 AM
Why would someone say that about a player that has only made the playoffs once in his career? ;)
Lavine = Kevin Love.
Love lucked out and got traded to the Lebronnies. Can Lavine be that lucky?
Quote from: Jockey on June 25, 2024, 10:38:29 PM
Bridges is a way better player.
Draft picks aren't as important as they used to be. So much money around that you can add pieces via free agency.
Draft picks have become a lot more important with the stingier rules around the first and second apron now. And there's a lot less money out there for teams to spend now.
Quote from: Jockey on June 26, 2024, 10:17:23 AM
Lavine = Kevin Love.
Love lucked out and got traded to the Lebronnies. Can Lavine be that lucky?
Love was starting his evolution into a lower-minute, 3-point specialist by then. Still wasn't "only" a role player, as he's become in his latter years, but was clearly #3 behind LeBron and Kyrie. Played about the same number of minutes as J.R. Smith.
So we'll see how LaVine's game evolves and what role he's willing to accept.
Quote from: MU82 on June 26, 2024, 12:24:25 PM
Love was starting his evolution into a lower-minute, 3-point specialist by then. Still wasn't "only" a role player, as he's become in his latter years, but was clearly #3 behind LeBron and Kyrie. Played about the same number of minutes as J.R. Smith.
So we'll see how LaVine's game evolves and what role he's willing to accept.
I think LaVine is a smart guy and would understand what his game has become. Now that he has his money, he has asked to be traded and might actually want to win before his career is over. He's, at best, a third option on a winning team.
He has become a middle/back of the rotation guy who can eat up innings. Not someone who will make you a winner, but can be useful.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 26, 2024, 12:39:39 PM
I think LaVine is a smart guy and would understand what his game has become. Now that he has his money, he has asked to be traded and might actually want to win before his career is over. He's, at best, a third option on a winning team.
He has become a middle/back of the rotation guy who can eat up innings. Not someone who will make you a winner, but can be useful.
We'll see if any NBA GMs agree with your assessment, and if any who do agree can work around the $$$ to make a trade.
Quote from: MU82 on June 26, 2024, 12:24:25 PM
Love was starting his evolution into a lower-minute, 3-point specialist by then. Still wasn't "only" a role player, as he's become in his latter years, but was clearly #3 behind LeBron and Kyrie. Played about the same number of minutes as J.R. Smith.
So we'll see how LaVine's game evolves and what role he's willing to accept.
Actually, not according to his career stats. He was actually shooting more and scoring more the year before he went to Cleveland.
But I credit him for changing his role willingly after the trade.
Can Lavine do the same? I think it could happen in Miami where there is a true alpha.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 26, 2024, 10:36:59 AM
Draft picks have become a lot more important with the stingier rules around the first and second apron now. And there's a lot less money out there for teams to spend now.
Obviously as the salary cap rises, teams have less money to spend. ::)
Quote from: Jockey on June 26, 2024, 03:50:49 PM
Obviously as the salary cap rises, teams have less money to spend. ::)
Somebody doesn't know how max salaries work in the NBA and how the first and second aprons work in the NBA.
Quote from: Jockey on June 26, 2024, 03:49:31 PM
Actually, not according to his career stats. He was actually shooting more and scoring more the year before he went to Cleveland.
But I credit him for changing his role willingly after the trade.
Can Lavine do the same? I think it could happen in Miami where there is a true alpha.
Yes, I meant that Love played fewer minutes, scored fewer points, and wasn't a top-2 option for his team after going to Cleveland. He willingly took a back seat to LeBron and Kyrie to try to win.
Would LaVine be willing to do similar? Would teams want him if he were willing? TBD on both.
Knickerbockers are active.
Quote from: MU82 on June 26, 2024, 04:58:38 PM
Yes, I meant that Love played fewer minutes, scored fewer points, and wasn't a top-2 option for his team after going to Cleveland. He willingly took a back seat to LeBron and Kyrie to try to win.
Would LaVine be willing to do similar? Would teams want him if he were willing? TBD on both.
I think Lavine would be quite valuable if he were willing.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 26, 2024, 04:15:04 PM
Somebody doesn't know how max salaries work in the NBA and how the first and second aprons work in the NBA.
Somebody also doesn't understand how teams can get around this.
There is chatter that the Hawks have considered Sheppard at #1. Likely won't happen but I'm just baffled. Lottery talent, sure. But Top 3 seems like a stretch for him. Consideration at #1 is just insane, IMO. I don't ever see him becoming a regular All Star. Far more likely to have a Redick career than Steph.
Quote from: Jockey on June 26, 2024, 06:38:27 PM
Somebody also doesn't understand how teams can get around this.
Somebody doesn't realize that teams really cannot get around this.
You claim there's "so much money going around that you can add free agents," but plenty of teams, including the Bucks, can only add vet minimums in free agency, right? Not even tax payer mid levels, just vet minimums.
And that teams like the Bucks can't make a trade that brings in even 1 penny more than what they send out, and they can't aggregate multiple salaries to match what they would bring in.
Like I said, draft picks are going to become a whole lot more important. There are far less ways for a team to add talent when they have even 2 max contracts (which go up when the cap goes up).
Quote from: JWags85 on June 26, 2024, 06:51:56 PM
There is chatter that the Hawks have considered Sheppard at #1. Likely won't happen but I'm just baffled. Lottery talent, sure. But Top 3 seems like a stretch for him. Consideration at #1 is just insane, IMO. I don't ever see him becoming a regular All Star. Far more likely to have a Redick career than Steph.
Going 3, which is crazy high for a player like that
Back in my day, the US produced the top players.
Now, get off my lawn!
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 26, 2024, 07:22:48 PM
Back in my day, the US produced the top players.
Now, get off my lawn!
European developmental systems are lapping how we develop talent in America. We have sheer volume and kids with a lot of potential but don't do a very good job developing it.
Grassroots, AAU, HS and college systems are a mess and poorly coordinated way to develop kids
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 26, 2024, 07:26:53 PM
European developmental systems are lapping how we develop talent in America. We have sheer volume and kids with a lot of potential but don't do a very good job developing it.
Grassroots, AAU, HS and college systems are a mess and poorly coordinated way to develop kids
100% correct.
Is Reed Sheppard's mom Brenda Warner?
Are Tyko and Oso there???
Castle with Wemby is a nice pick by Spurs
Potentially 5 BEast 1st round picks.
Castle's necklace wins the night. 8-)
Quote from: JWags85 on June 26, 2024, 06:51:56 PM
There is chatter that the Hawks have considered Sheppard at #1. Likely won't happen but I'm just baffled. Lottery talent, sure. But Top 3 seems like a stretch for him. Consideration at #1 is just insane, IMO. I don't ever see him becoming a regular All Star. Far more likely to have a Redick career than Steph.
Agree 100%.
#5 is immediately in a tough position if he winds up with the Pistons.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 07:38:42 PM
I think he's much more skilled than Reddick.
He's paler
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 26, 2024, 07:40:34 PM
He's paler
Reddick couldn't do much off the bounce. I'm not saying he's gonna be a superstar but he's a better athlete than Reddick.
Another French dude went 6??
And this guy didn't even average 10 ppg?
This draft is an all timer
Wow. No one saw Edey at 9.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 08:04:52 PM
Wow. No one saw Edey at 9.
He's been climbing into that range for a while
I guess he is pretty good.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 26, 2024, 08:05:31 PM
He's been climbing into that range for a while
He has? Not from what I saw.
Wolves just ass fu cked the Spurs on national tv
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 26, 2024, 08:08:03 PM
Wolves just ass fu cked the Spurs on national tv
Didn't know they were evangelical Christians
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 26, 2024, 08:08:03 PM
Wolves just ass fu cked the Spurs on national tv
Dilly is explosive. This could be a classic case of DDP? (Doubting Diminutive Players).
The Bulls should take Knecht.....but probably won't.
Sweet Jesus.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 08:14:36 PM
Dilly is explosive. This could be a classic case of DDP? (Doubting Diminutive Players).
Dillingham is 6'3, he's not diminutive in any way, shape, or form.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 26, 2024, 08:19:11 PM
Dillingham is 6'3, he's not diminutive in any way, shape, or form.
I thought he measured 6'1.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 08:20:23 PM
I thought he measured 6'1.
Dilly ain't the midget you are looking for
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 08:04:52 PM
Wow. No one saw Edey at 9.
A LOT of people were wrong about Edey, including at least one Scooper who insisted he sucks.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 26, 2024, 08:08:03 PM
Wolves just ass fu cked the Spurs on national tv
so who got the better end of the deal? ;D
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on June 26, 2024, 08:21:20 PM
Dilly ain't the midget you are looking for
Stop attacking smaller citizens. That's hate speech.
Topic is not the " best passer in the draft" Bilas. And you should know better announcing Tyko's games in Maui. But of course you thought Hintich would be better than Wade. Lol.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 08:24:18 PM
Stop attacking smaller citizens. That's hate speech.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExeDQzeDRtbWZvZHRxZmQyanVlbGtzeTdkcnFobnEybG96bjc4N2dwaSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/jqI7vrTgA1An4pi4k8/giphy.gif)
Respectable pick by the Bulls. Better prospect than Pat Williams or Dalen Terry. Nice to see the FO not try to be clever.
Kolek's nane just showed on ESPN's best available board. He's #10 on the board as the #16 pick is about to be announced.
Quote from: MU82 on June 26, 2024, 08:50:20 PM
Kolek's nane just showed on ESPN's best available board. He's #10 on the board as the #16 pick is about to be announced.
Please God, not the Wizards.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 08:51:55 PM
Please God, not the Wizards.
Don't discriminate against the gifted
Quote from: MU82 on June 26, 2024, 08:50:20 PM
Kolek's nane just showed on ESPN's best available board. He's #10 on the board as the #16 pick is about to be announced.
ESPN hates Marquette
Tyko
Knecht
Shannon
All 3 could be immediate contributors.
I don't think Kolek makes it past Phoenix.
Quote from: cheebs09 on June 26, 2024, 09:12:36 PM
I don't think Kolek makes it past Phoenix.
I really hope you're right Cheebs. I thought Orlando would take him.
Quote from: cheebs09 on June 26, 2024, 09:12:36 PM
I don't think Kolek makes it past Phoenix.
Well, Phoenix didn't even want the pick
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 09:16:12 PM
I really hope you're right Cheebs. I thought Orlando would take him.
Why do you hate TK?
Should the Bucks take Kolek or Shannon?
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 09:30:40 PM
Should the Bucks take Kolek or Shannon?
Of the 2, Shannon. But they should probably take George.
AJ Johnson?
Who? That kid looks 16.
Another project.
Maybe try drafting a real basketball player for a change.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 09:38:27 PM
Who? That kid looks 16.
That's a Bulls type of pick.
Fire Horst to the goddamn moon.
Your periodic reminder that the NBA Draft is all about perceived potential.
Credit to ESPN for not having SAS on this broadcast.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 26, 2024, 09:38:04 PM
AJ Johnson?
I don't get it. Seemed like there were players available with high floors to play supporting roles quickly and cheaply.
The Bucks could have traded down and still got their man, I mean kid.
Quote from: MUBurrow on June 26, 2024, 09:54:27 PM
I don't get it. Seemed like there were players available with high floors to play supporting roles quickly and cheaply.
Ya.. ..that made no sense.
It might be time for a new fk'em shirt. Kolek will be a good pro.
Kolek will have to wait until tomorrow. Dunn going to Phoenix at 28.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on June 26, 2024, 10:04:44 PM
Kolek will have to wait until tomorrow. Dunn going to Phoenix at 28.
Fk. Very, very, disappointing.
Quote from: MuggsyB on June 26, 2024, 10:06:40 PM
Fk. Very, very, disappointing.
You mushed him, smh
I actually think AJ Johnson is going to be a pretty good NBA player for a long time. But given the Bucks window, I would have preferred they go with someone ready to contribute in some way this year.
Now that Kolek is a second round pick, be interesting to see where he lands tomorrow.
Tough to not see him go tonight.
Johnson's high school team played in Columbia last year so I went and watched. He fouled out in the 3rd quarter lol. Imagine a 6'5", 167 lb. wing trying to lock up Tatum and Brown.
The good thing is the Bucks are a young rebuilding roster with no pressure to win now and plenty of history developing young, unproven players. Plus they have tons of cap space to improve a very flawed roster so you don't need rookies to contribute.
The pick is worse than DJ Wilson and might drive Giannis out of Milwaukee.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on June 26, 2024, 10:15:17 PM
Now that Kolek is a second round pick, be interesting to see where he lands tomorrow.
Tough to not see him go tonight.
Yep. He's always thrived with a chip on his shoulder, though.
Quote from: MU82 on June 26, 2024, 10:21:07 PM
Yep. He's always thrived with a chip on his shoulder, though.
That thrive is most likely going to start in the G League.
That settles it. Both needed another year of college ball.
Very disappointing night for Kolek. Would be surprised if Oso hears his name tomorrow.
I would take every player picked after Johnson tonite before I would take him.
This won't help recruiting.
I was excited about the thought of Oso being taken tomorrow by the Bucks, but after tonight, I'm almost hoping he ends up in a better situation.
they took this johnson lad over terrence shannon Jr???? oy vey!!!
I hope they didn't consult with the doctor on this one as it would further cement my questions about his "enthusiasm" levels
Did Kolek get some bad advice to not play in the Combine?
Quote from: wadesworld on June 26, 2024, 10:15:40 PM
Johnson's high school team played in Columbia last year so I went and watched. He fouled out in the 3rd quarter lol. Imagine a 6'5", 167 lb. wing trying to lock up Tatum and Brown.
The good thing is the Bucks are a young rebuilding roster with no pressure to win now and plenty of history developing young, unproven players. Plus they have tons of cap space to improve a very flawed roster so you don't need rookies to contribute.
The pick is worse than DJ Wilson and might drive Giannis out of Milwaukee.
Oh come on. It was a weak draft with no one that was going to help the Bucks get over the hump. The only thing that can do that is healthy players.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 27, 2024, 06:57:48 AM
Oh come on. It was a weak draft with no one that was going to help the Bucks get over the hump. The only thing that can do that is healthy players.
I would argue that someone like Scheierman could have at least provided some type of skill that would be helpful over the next season or two.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 27, 2024, 08:00:40 AM
I would argue that someone like Scheierman could have at least provided some type of skill that would be helpful over the next season or two.
I think the Bucks have enough defensive liabilities on the team.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 27, 2024, 08:17:16 AM
I think the Bucks have enough defensive liabilities on the team.
Touche.
Given that Middleton can't stay healthy and Malik Beasley is a FA, I thought TSJ was an obvious candidate at that spot that could provide meaningful minutes right away. Then again, I know that saying that the most obvious college player at a given spot in the draft would be the best pick is a noob take, so I am very open to counterpoints from folks with a better sense of NCAA to NBA transition issues.
There is talk that the Bucks are considering trading Portis for Andrew Wiggins. That's how they would take care of their backcourt.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 26, 2024, 10:15:40 PM
Johnson's high school team played in Columbia last year so I went and watched. He fouled out in the 3rd quarter lol. Imagine a 6'5", 167 lb. wing trying to lock up Tatum and Brown.
The good thing is the Bucks are a young rebuilding roster with no pressure to win now and plenty of history developing young, unproven players. Plus they have tons of cap space to improve a very flawed roster so you don't need rookies to contribute.
The pick is worse than DJ Wilson and might drive Giannis out of Milwaukee.
Did you forget the teal? Everything the Bucks do supposedly drives Giannis out of town and then every time Giannis has the chance to re-sign he <checks notes> re-signs.
Quote from: MUBurrow on June 27, 2024, 09:04:13 AM
Given that Middleton can't stay healthy and Malik Beasley is a FA, I thought TSJ was an obvious candidate at that spot that could provide meaningful minutes right away. Then again, I know that saying that the most obvious college player at a given spot in the draft would be the best pick is a noob take, so I am very open to counterpoints from folks with a better sense of NCAA to NBA transition issues.
Yup. This is exactly where the Bucks should've gone.
I'd like them to ad McCullar to the roster in the 2nd round at least. But they'll probably go Filipowski.
Quote from: The Lens on June 27, 2024, 09:39:10 AM
Did you forget the teal? Everything the Bucks do supposedly drives Giannis out of town and then every time Giannis has the chance to re-sign he <checks notes> re-signs.
I've never bought Giannis leaving. But if the Bucks go 3 straight years of first round exits and you're looking at an aging Dame and Middleton with no real way to upgrade your roster, well...
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 27, 2024, 09:06:16 AM
There is talk that the Bucks are considering trading Portis for Andrew Wiggins. That's how they would take care of their backcourt.
I don't see any way the Bucks can make that work. Wiggins is set to make over $24MM next year while Bobby is set to make under $12MM. Neither team can bring in a penny more than what they send out, and neither team can aggregate salaries to make matching salaries work. Even if you could aggregate salaries, the next highest salary the Bucks have is Pat at over $9MM, and that doesn't even get you to $24MM.
Brook makes $25MM but again, it doesn't work on the Warriors end there.
Shot themselves in the foot by extending Lopez, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 27, 2024, 10:13:03 AM
Shot themselves in the foot by extending Lopez, hey?
Yeah they could've used that money to...
Oh wait, never mind. Had they let him walk, they still wouldn't have been able to spend the money anywhere else anyway. Their only option last year was to resign Middleton and Brook. Otherwise those guys walk for nothing and it's a huge failure.
Brook will probably be moved. He has a larger salary so they can bring back a better player, and he's going into his last year of his deal so he will be attractive as a floor spacer, rim protector, and expiring contract.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 27, 2024, 10:13:03 AM
Shot themselves in the foot by extending Lopez, hey?
Not at all. He is their best rim defender and can provide you with scoring inside and out. It was a two year deal that expires after next season.
Rim protectors won't do you much good when the perimeter defense is jackin' up 3's all night. Plus da dude is slow as molasses. In short...not a good fit for this team. Peddle his ass, hey?
Quote from: wadesworld on June 27, 2024, 10:07:13 AM
I don't see any way the Bucks can make that work. Wiggins is set to make over $24MM next year while Bobby is set to make under $12MM. Neither team can bring in a penny more than what they send out, and neither team can aggregate salaries to make matching salaries work. Even if you could aggregate salaries, the next highest salary the Bucks have is Pat at over $9MM, and that doesn't even get you to $24MM.
Brook makes $25MM but again, it doesn't work on the Warriors end there.
Yup. No way to make it work. Just give up and play with who you got.
I think Brook gets moved in the coming weeks.
The Portis-Wiggins deal won't work as wades said.
Shannon was the guy I wanted for them. Physical wing who can get going offensively.
With Tyler, the Knicks trade for Bridges threw a big wrench into it. They need to preserve every penny of potential space, so they took a stash guy and traded out of the first round.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 27, 2024, 10:13:03 AM
Shot themselves in the foot by extending Lopez, hey?
And Middleton... especially, Middleton.
I couldn't make the Wiggins-Portis trade work in the NBA trade machine any way I tried.
Bucks have missed their window of opportunity, as they are now constituted.
They are old and slow. That's not today's Association. Shoulda peddled some asses a couple years ago, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 27, 2024, 11:07:04 AM
Bucks have missed their window of opportunity, as they are now constituted.
They are old and slow. That's not today's Association. Shoulda peddled some asses a couple years ago, aina?
Should have just stayed healthy, really.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on June 27, 2024, 11:08:04 AM
Should have just stayed healthy, really.
4elder is still mad they won a title and Giannis is the biggest thing in Milwaukee
It must suck to be a "fan" of a team and yet be angry that the team's best player - whom you wanted traded - won the team a title.
Those of you that REALLY hate this pick, what's the reasoning for it?
Sam Vecenie, who is very tied into the Australian League, thinks Johnson will be a good NBA player. Seems like the guy has a great head on his shoulders. Said he went to Australia to learn how to deal with physical play to see how strong he had to get. Knew he wasn't going to play much but wanted to play against pros. The game seems there once the body fills out.
He won't help this year, obviously. But I think he's going to have a long career.
Here's Sam Vecenie's post-draft take on the Bucks/Johnson, and it's not exactly a ringing endorsement ...
I think I was probably higher on A.J. Johnson than anyone in the public sphere rating prospects, and I couldn't get him any higher than No. 32 on my board. Even as a fan of Johnson, I think what the Bucks did tonight was substantially reach on a player that I consider to be a multi-year project while they're in the middle of what they hope is a title chase in 2025.
There were league sources on teams that I spoke with who did not see Johnson as draftable this year (others, like me, had him around the turn of the first round). It's just a remarkable risk to take for a team that has had about as little success in the NBA Draft as any organization in the league since Jon Horst took over. The only one that is a bona fide hit is Donte DiVincenzo, and the organization gave up on him before he came into his own in Golden State and, especially this past season, in New York. Sam Merrill also qualifies as a hit, but they also gave up on him before he went on to become a lethal shooter in Cleveland's rotation. The only real hit here is A.J. Green, an undrafted free agent who looks poised to potentially enter their rotation next season.
Johnson certainly represents a swing for the fences, at least. He's a developmental scoring guard who has some serious wiggle and athleticism. Down the road, I think there are a lot of outcomes where he's a positive player in the NBA. But he also was among the least productive players in the NBL over in Australia this past season. He's under 170 pounds and nowhere near playing in the NBA. I had multiple front-office sources from other teams jokingly speculate to me that the Bucks took Johnson simply so Doc Rivers wouldn't have to worry about playing a rookie in his first full season in charge in Milwaukee.
He's going to require a lot of time and effort developmentally to reach his ceiling. Truly, I hope he gets it from the Bucks. I think Johnson can be a real player. But the Bucks' track record over the last seven years hasn't been particularly strong in that regard. It's tough to buy into this as a sharp pick. It feels like the Bucks overthought this, especially when it's likely Johnson would have been available at No. 33.
Most sites have it as the worst pick in the 1st round.
Quote from: MU82 on June 27, 2024, 01:59:15 PM
There were league sources on teams that I spoke with who did not see Johnson as draftable this year (others, like me, had him around the turn of the first round). It's just a remarkable risk to take for a team that has had about as little success in the NBA Draft as any organization in the league since Jon Horst took over. The only one that is a bona fide hit is Donte DiVincenzo, and the organization gave up on him before he came into his own in Golden State and, especially this past season, in New York. Sam Merrill also qualifies as a hit, but they also gave up on him before he went on to become a lethal shooter in Cleveland's rotation. The only real hit here is A.J. Green, an undrafted free agent who looks poised to potentially enter their rotation next season.
I'm not a fan of Horst at all, but this is an absolutely horrible take. Its not that Horst is a bad drafter, he just never had the picks. (i personally hated the Jrue trade where we gave up all our picks for a borderline all-star that overall underperformed for us in the playoffs). Looking at his draft history, outside of DJ Wilson (I am not confident he made that pick), it has been ok.
DDV-They gave up on him because he had a devastating injury that hobbled him when it came for them to crap or get off the pot on an extension. He wanted a long-term 8-figure deal which wasn't reasonable at the time as neither Sacramento or GSW offered it to him. If DDV didn't get injured against Miami, we probably give him that extension and it would've been looked at as a great pick.
Merrill - They traded him in a package for a way better starting SG we had for two years. In that time, Merrill had a couple barely hanging on years with Memphis/Clevland before finally having a break out year at 28 years old by being a 18 mpg player. Bucks absolutely made the right call first drafting Merrill and then trading for Allen.
2023 NBA 2 33 Andrew Jackson Probably better than most 2nd rounders
2023 NBA AJ Green Hit
2023 NBA 2 58 Chris Livingston Seems like a decent pick for the spot
2022 NBA 1 24 MarJon Beauchamp Probably a bad pick, but only 2 guys (Nikola, Nemhard) would have made a difference/clearly better
2021 NBA 2 54 Sandro - Not a bad pick
2021 NBA 2 60 Some Greek Guy - Bad pick but most GMs arent even watching the draft at that point
2020 NBA 2 45 Jordan Nwora Pretty Good pick for the spot
2020 NBA 2 60 Sam Merrill
2018 NBA 1 17 Donte DiVincenzo Good pick
2017 NBA 1 17 D.J. Wilson Bad pick, was on job for 10 days and seemed like he didn't actually make the pick
Da dude is 6'6" and 165 lbs. Even if he puts on 30 lbs. of muscle, his ass iz gonna bea eaton alive. Terrible pick by da Bucks. Should bea 'nough ta get Horst chit canned, aina?
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 27, 2024, 02:27:11 PM
I'm not a fan of Horst at all, but this is an absolutely horrible take. Its not that Horst is a bad drafter, he just never had the picks. (i personally hated the Jrue trade where we gave up all our picks for a borderline all-star that overall underperformed for us in the playoffs). Looking at his draft history, outside of DJ Wilson (I am not confident he made that pick), it has been ok.
DDV-They gave up on him because he had a devastating injury that hobbled him when it came for them to crap or get off the pot on an extension. He wanted a long-term 8-figure deal which wasn't reasonable at the time as neither Sacramento or GSW offered it to him. If DDV didn't get injured against Miami, we probably give him that extension and it would've been looked at as a great pick.
Merrill - They traded him in a package for a way better starting SG we had for two years. In that time, Merrill had a couple barely hanging on years with Memphis/Clevland before finally having a break out year at 28 years old by being a 18 mpg player. Bucks absolutely made the right call first drafting Merrill and then trading for Allen.
2023 NBA 2 33 Andrew Jackson Probably better than most 2nd rounders
2023 NBA AJ Green Hit
2023 NBA 2 58 Chris Livingston Seems like a decent pick for the spot
2022 NBA 1 24 MarJon Beauchamp Probably a bad pick, but only 2 guys (Nikola, Nemhard) would have made a difference/clearly better
2021 NBA 2 54 Sandro - Not a bad pick
2021 NBA 2 60 Some Greek Guy - Bad pick but most GMs arent even watching the draft at that point
2020 NBA 2 45 Jordan Nwora Pretty Good pick for the spot
2020 NBA 2 60 Sam Merrill
2018 NBA 1 17 Donte DiVincenzo Good pick
2017 NBA 1 17 D.J. Wilson Bad pick, was on job for 10 days and seemed like he didn't actually make the pick
So what you're saying is he's drafted one player who has been a rotational piece in his 7 years with the Bucks? And that one pick he traded for a way past washed Serge Ibaka to come in and ruin the locker room because they didn't want to give him the contract he wanted, even though he was a restricted free agent so the Bucks could've matched any low offer DDV ended up getting anyway?
Yeah, he's been horrible at drafting, when he has had picks.
The Jrue trade was awesome. Gave up picks while the Bucks would still be awesome (so late firsts) for the final piece to a title puzzle. The Dame trade I understand but think Jrue is a better fit on the Bucks. Horst deserves credit for taking huge swings in trades, which has kept Giannis around. But other than that, he's been pretty bad at adding pieces around Giannis.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 27, 2024, 02:28:52 PM
Da dude is 6'6" and 165 lbs. Even if he puts on 30 lbs. of muscle, his ass iz gonna bea eaton alive. Terrible pick by da Bucks. Should bea 'nough ta get Horst chit canned, aina?
Feeling better about this pick
Quote from: wadesworld on June 27, 2024, 02:42:46 PM
So what you're saying is he's drafted one player who has been a rotational piece in his 7 years with the Bucks?
No, I'm saying he hasn't had any decent picks. He has had 3 mid-to-late 1st round picks and hit on 1 of them. That is pretty much average for those picks if you are looking at realistic chances of getting a starter/high-end rotational player with those picks. He's also drafted second rounders that actually stuck around a few years, which is about average
And that one pick he traded for a way past washed Serge Ibaka to come in and ruin the locker room because they didn't want to give him the contract he wanted, even though he was a restricted free agent so the Bucks could've matched any low offer DDV ended up getting anyway?
This is not about drafting. I think he has sucked as a GM.
Yeah, he's been horrible at drafting, when he has had picks.
See above. He is a bad 'drafter' since he traded most of his picks over these 7 years.
The Jrue trade was awesome. Gave up picks while the Bucks would still be awesome (so late firsts) for the final piece to a title puzzle. The Dame trade I understand but think Jrue is a better fit on the Bucks. Horst deserves credit for taking huge swings in trades, which has kept Giannis around. But other than that, he's been pretty bad at adding pieces around Giannis.
You say the trade was awesome but then you say he sucked adding pieces around Giannis....because he hasn't had any picks or assets since he traded them all for Jrue while also hinting that you late firsts arent valuable....yet we expect him to get starters from the late firsts he did have?
I don't expect starters. But I'd hope that over the course of 7 years he'd be able to hit on more than 1 player that has broken into your rotation. And the thing is, 3 of the 4 first round picks (including last night) have been total head scratching picks. Like nobody thought DJ Wilson had any chance to be a good NBA player ever. MarJon I guess has the physical tools to, but he was considered a big reach when the Bucks made that pick. AJ Johnson is considered a HUGE reach at 23. Heck, even Divenenzo was considered a reach, being drafted based mainly off of one NCAA Tournament run. In my opinion, when you figured out that Giannis was a true superstar, it was time to stop taking swings on the biggest upside guys, and find guys who fit next to Giannis and will be able to contribute. Horst seems to just swing for the fences on every pick.
Horst is so bad at drafting that I literally would rather he pulls Bill Simmons's move and drafts Bronny James at 33. Hold him hostage and force the Lakers to give up a future first to get him on their roster.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 27, 2024, 02:46:32 PM
Feeling better about this pick
He doesn't watch much NBA if he thinks 6'6", 195 is too small.
Horst was great adding pieces for the championship team. Lopez, Connaughton, Portis and Tucker were all added under his watch.
And I think trading Sam Merrill for Grayson Allen wasn't the worst idea in the world. And the DDV trade for Ibaka was made solely because Brook Lopez was injured.
So I don't really buy that he's been "bad" at adding pieces around Giannis. He was very good at it...then made a couple bad deals. The whole Dame thing is TBD.
But I think his drafting is way too long on hoping for potential and not just drafting solid guys.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 27, 2024, 03:15:29 PM
He doesn't watch much NBA if he thinks 6'6", 195 is too small.
To be fair, he's 6'5" 167 lbs.
So the NBA moved this thing to a 2 day event...to have the 2nd round start airing at 3 PM (central) on a Thursday, and have their production all in a studio with nobody around? Woof this is awful.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 27, 2024, 03:25:08 PM
So the NBA moved this thing to a 2 day event...to have the 2nd round start airing at 3 PM (central) on a Thursday, and have their production all in a studio with nobody around? Woof this is awful.
No they moved it to a 2-day event because the teams wanted it that way - and ESPN was fine with it because what else are they going to show.
I think ESPN moved it to the afternoon because of the Presidential debate.
He's a knick
At least briefly a Blazer.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 27, 2024, 03:24:25 PM
To be fair, he's 6'5" 167 lbs.
To be fair, 4ever wrote "Da dude is 6'6" and 165 lbs.
Even if he puts on 30 lbs. of muscle, his ass iz gonna bea eaton alive."
Quote from: Pakuni on June 27, 2024, 03:58:51 PM
To be fair, 4ever wrote "Da dude is 6'6" and 165 lbs. Even if he puts on 30 lbs. of muscle, his ass iz gonna bea eaton alive."
Ah, yup.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 27, 2024, 03:31:25 PM
No they moved it to a 2-day event because the teams wanted it that way - and ESPN was fine with it because what else are they going to show.
I think ESPN moved it to the afternoon because of the Presidential debate.
Yeah, I've been at the Cousin Center in the past and the 2nd round was always iffy. They needed to do media availability, call the prospect, etc where the second round became an afterthought. With the new rules making trades extremely complicated (you need a designated specialist to tell you if the trade is legal under a second apron) and more importance of contenders filling out rosters with second round guys due to being hard capped, it just makes sense to give teams 24 hours to figure crap out. Nobody in the past stayed up to watch the second round so any ratings they get out of it is better than nothing. They just got screwed with the debate, like you said.
The Kyle Filipowski rumors are pretty wild.
Congrats to LeBron.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 27, 2024, 05:12:11 PM
The Kyle Filipowski rumors are pretty wild.
Couldn't have happened to a better guy.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 27, 2024, 05:12:11 PM
The Kyle Filipowski rumors are pretty wild.
Congrats to LeBron.
Were they gay Mormons?
Quote from: Pakuni on June 27, 2024, 05:12:11 PM
The Kyle Filipowski rumors are pretty wild.
Congrats to LeBron.
That's religion for you. Groomer central
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 27, 2024, 05:33:18 PM
That's religion for you. Groomer central
I think the criticisms of his girlfriend are unfair. She shouldn't be persecuted for being good in missionary
Good boys always let mommy pick out their girlfriends.
Sad news for Cain
(https://i.imgur.com/Z7PKoKU.png)
Quote from: Skatastrophy on June 28, 2024, 10:36:54 PM
Sad news for Cain
(https://i.imgur.com/Z7PKoKU.png)
Zero sum game. 60 in. 60 out.
Not surprising. Really athletic, but he's now 25 without a lot of upside. He played more NBA games than I thought he would however.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 29, 2024, 06:32:06 AM
Not surprising. Really athletic, but he's now 25 without a lot of upside. He played more NBA games than I thought he would however.
Plus, Shaka ran him off and he's not a white guy from Wisconsin, so who cares really?
It is a business. Sometimes the business calculation is unkind.
So Paul George turns down a $48.7 mil option and would be eligible for a 4 year $221 mil 4 year deal??
The money flying around the NBA today is insane.
Patrick Williams signs a 5 year $90 mil deal?
How would you like to be an accountant in the NBA for either a team or a player?
Don't the players have to pay the taxes for each state they step foot into? Like if they fly I. To California a few days ahead of game time, they start paying the as soon as they enter their air space essentially? I'd say we camp out in Tennessee or Florida between games eyna?
Owners are making more.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 30, 2024, 05:56:46 AM
Patrick Williams signs a 5 year $90 mil deal?
The Bulls refuse to act like an organization that cares about winning. The Williams deal is so bad. If you completely set aside the fact that his play does not support $18M/yr by any metric, Patrick cannot stay healthy. 3 years at $45M would have made some sense.
Williams is JR's wet dream for a roster that will always miss the playoffs. Who values a 3 & D power forward? The Bulls negotiated against themselves here.
Oh well, at least the Bulls didn't give him $200M, and maybe the deal is front loaded. And if they move LaVine and don't sign DeRozen then locking down PW is good for tanking next year and beyond.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 30, 2024, 07:19:36 AM
The Bulls refuse to act like an organization that cares about winning. The Williams deal is so bad. If you completely set aside the fact that his play does not support $18M/yr by any metric, Patrick cannot stay healthy. 3 years at $45M would have made some sense.
Williams is JR's wet dream for a roster that will always miss the playoffs. Who values a 3 & D power forward? The Bulls negotiated against themselves here.
Oh well, at least the Bulls didn't give him $200M, and maybe the deal is front loaded. And if they move LaVine and don't sign DeRozen then locking down PW is good for tanking next year and beyond.
Literally every team in the NBA (and college) values a 3 and D power forward.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 30, 2024, 05:56:46 AM
How would you like to be an accountant in the NBA for either a team or a player?
It's a lucrative occupation. Those who do it probably love it.
Also, you realize that if the players didn't get the money, it would go straight into the pockets of the billionaires who own the teams, right?
Nobody cares about the Hornets, and I can understand why. But I do think it will be interesting to see what happens with Miles Bridges.
Bridges is an incredibly talented player who is just about to enter his prime. Were it not for a series of horrific off-the-court incidents, he'd already have a max contract. But those incidents did happen, and so far it's made him toxic.
But new Hornets boss Jeff Peterson says he absolutely wants to keep Bridges, who nonetheless filed for free agency. Are other NBA GMs also ready to shrug their shoulders about his anger, violence and legal issues, setting up a bidding war?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 30, 2024, 07:19:36 AM
The Bulls refuse to act like an organization that cares about winning. The Williams deal is so bad. If you completely set aside the fact that his play does not support $18M/yr by any metric, Patrick cannot stay healthy. 3 years at $45M would have made some sense.
Williams is JR's wet dream for a roster that will always miss the playoffs. Who values a 3 & D power forward? The Bulls negotiated against themselves here.
Oh well, at least the Bulls didn't give him $200M, and maybe the deal is front loaded. And if they move LaVine and don't sign DeRozen then locking down PW is good for tanking next year and beyond.
This makes Williams the 83rd highest-paid player in the league (for now) alongside Duncan Robinson and Norman Powell. It's a perfectly fine deal for a 22-year-old free agent.
If you want to be mad at the Bulls - and boy, do you ever - be mad that LaVine, DeRozan and Vuc are still on the roster.
The Bulls' management are experts at creating terminal unmitigated disasters.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 30, 2024, 07:22:18 AM
Literally every team in the NBA (and college) values a 3 and D power forward.
Looking at some playoff teams:
Celtics don't have a PF.
Mavericks have PJ Washington at $17M and is a better player
Pacers have a great one in Siakam (not a 3 guy)
Heat have Love ay $4M
Cavs have Evan Mobley (not a 3 guy) at $6M
T-Wolves have J. McDaniels at $4M (good comp stats wise to PW)
Thunder don't have a PF
Clippers have a great one P. George
Nuggets have A. Gordon (not a 3 guy)
Bucks have B. Portis at about $12M.
I concede that finding a great 3&D PF would be valuable but certainly not a key need for successful teams. If Williams could become Draymond, that would be great, but Draymond is 100X better ball handler and passer.
Also, when I say Williams is a 3 & D player, he is going to have to grow into that role. He take 3 3's a game and his D is very inconsistent. And I challenge anyone to find anyone who thinks Williams has a good motor or shows above average effort.
Quote from: MU82 on June 30, 2024, 07:33:40 AM
It's a lucrative occupation. Those who do it probably love it.
Also, you realize that if the players didn't get the money, it would go straight into the pockets of the billionaires who own the teams, right?
Well, roqqqet definitely doesn't want workers to get the money they generate
Quote from: Pakuni on June 30, 2024, 07:49:55 AM
This makes Williams the 83rd highest-paid player in the league (for now) alongside Duncan Robinson and Norman Powell. It's a perfectly fine deal for a 22-year-old free agent.
If you want to be mad at the Bulls - and boy, do you ever - be mad that LaVine, DeRozan and Vuc are still on the roster.
For a quality organization, this would be viewed as a bad move. To your point, this is far from the worst deal by the Bulls. Just symptomatic of a really bad FO and owner.
The gap in logic is more troubling than the dollars. If you think he is young with great potential and will become a good NBA starter, then why give him the 5th year option? He will walk if the FO is right and it will be a bad deal. He will only take the 5th year option if he continues to play like he has or continues to be injured like he has. It will be a bad deal then.
DeRozen will not come back, as they don't have the money for him. LaVine need to go, but they have to wait and show he has recovered from his injury and be realistic on his value. Vuc is untradable and the Bulls wll not buy out a healthy player.
[EDIT] I will say this deal would not be as bad for a team with the ability to go into the luxury tax. The Bulls have to hit on every player with their financial constraints.
Quote from: MU82 on June 30, 2024, 07:33:40 AM
It's a lucrative occupation. Those who do it probably love it.
Also, you realize that if the players didn't get the money, it would go straight into the pockets of the billionaires who own the teams, right?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't read RS' post as complaining about what the players make.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 30, 2024, 08:14:32 AM
Looking at some playoff teams:
Celtics don't have a PF.
Mavericks have PJ Washington at $17M and is a better player
Pacers have a great one in Siakam (not a 3 guy)
Heat have Love ay $4M
Cavs have Evan Mobley (not a 3 guy) at $6M
T-Wolves have J. McDaniels at $4M (good comp stats wise to PW)
Thunder don't have a PF
Clippers have a great one P. George
Nuggets have A. Gordon (not a 3 guy)
Bucks have B. Portis at about $12M.
I concede that finding a great 3&D PF would be valuable but certainly not a key need for successful teams. If Williams could become Draymond, that would be great, but Draymond is 100X better ball handler and passer.
Also, when I say Williams is a 3 & D player, he is going to have to grow into that role. He take 3 3's a game and his D is very inconsistent. And I challenge anyone to find anyone who thinks Williams has a good motor or shows above average effort.
You're being a little disingenuous here.
Celtics - What's Al Horford, if not a 3 & D power forward. And Tatum also plays the 4 spot (and takes a ton of threes).
Mobely is on his rookie contract. I think we can assume his next deal will pay him substantially more than Williams.
Jalen Williams plays the 4 spot for the Thunder.
Aaron Gordon has taken more threes per game in his career than Williams. Why is he not a three guy, but Williams is?
Why did you leave out the Sixers (Harris), Pelicans (Zion), Suns (Durant), Lakers (Hachimura), Knicks (Randle) and Magic (Banchero)?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 30, 2024, 08:32:30 AM
Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't read RS' post as complaining about what the players make.
He meant insane in a good way.
White Trash complaining about a relatively minor, hardly controversial move? You don't say...
Quote from: Pakuni on June 30, 2024, 08:41:56 AM
You're being a little disingenuous here.
Celtics - What's Al Horford, if not a 3 & D power forward. And Tatum also plays the 4 spot (and takes a ton of threes).
Mobely is on his rookie contract. I think we can assume his next deal will pay him substantially more than Williams.
Jalen Williams plays the 4 spot for the Thunder.
Aaron Gordon has taken more threes per game in his career than Williams. Why is he not a three guy, but Williams is?
Why did you leave out the Sixers (Harris), Pelicans (Zion), Suns (Durant), Lakers (Hachimura), Knicks (Randle) and Magic (Banchero)?
That's mostly fair. Aaron is not a big three guy and as I said in my post Williams has to grow into a real three point threat. Right now, Williams is not a great player in any aspect of his game other than a good % 3-point shooter on low volume. But they are paying him on the hope he is going to become a 3&D guy, so I'll rate him as such.
Remember Williams regressed last year and lost his starting job for part of the season.
Come on, Zion as a 3&D guy? Same with Harris.
I'd be good with Williams on a Hachimura contract and production.
Durant, Randle & Banchero are good calls.
Maybe I'm wrong but having a 3&D PF, is not a typical key component of successful teams to the point where you bid against yourself for Williams. I assume William's agent took the temperature of the league and told Pat to jump on the Bulls offer.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on June 30, 2024, 08:55:34 AM
White Trash complaining about a relatively minor, hardly controversial move? You don't say...
This would be true for most NBA teams, but this is a big deal for a team with no cap space.
But even for the Bulls this is not nearly as important as unloading salary and getting a top 5 pick.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 30, 2024, 09:23:42 AM
That's mostly fair. Aaron is not a big three guy and as I said in my post Williams has to grow into a real three point threat. Right now, Williams is not a great player in any aspect of his game other than a good % 3-point shooter on low volume. But they are paying him on the hope he is going to become a 3&D guy, so I'll rate him as such.
Remember Williams regressed last year and lost his starting job for part of the season.
Come on, Zion as a 3&D guy? Same with Harris.
I'd be good with Williams on a Hachimura contract and production.
Durant, Randle & Banchero are good calls.
Maybe I'm wrong but having a 3&D PF, is not a typical key component of successful teams to the point where you bid against yourself for Williams. I assume William's agent took the temperature of the league and told Pat to jump on the Bulls offer.
I was citing Zion as an example of a team with a power forward.
Tobias Harris is definitely a three-point shooter. Has averaged nearly 4 attempts per game the past three seasons.
Hachimura is making $17 million on a contract signed a year ago. Williams' new contract pays $18 million. That's a completely reasonable year-over-year increase. Two years from now, Williams' contract will seem minuscule, accounting for less than 10 percent of the team's cap.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 30, 2024, 09:44:40 AM
I was citing Zion as an example of a team with a power forward.
Tobias Harris is definitely a three-point shooter. Has averaged nearly 4 attempts per game the past three seasons.
Hachimura is making $17 million on a contract signed a year ago. Williams' new contract pays $18 million. That's a completely reasonable year-over-year increase. Two years from now, Williams' contract will seem minuscule, accounting for less than 10 percent of the team's cap.
I thought the argument was for a 3&D PF? A great PF who can score, block shots, pass and defend is very important that every team wants. 3 point shooting is not a must have from your PF to win, IMO, and not prevalent in playoff quality teams, but you point out there are some.
As for Hachimura, I just see ESPN has him at $15.7M.
As for Harris, I guess it is a matter of opinion; 4 of his 17 points per game came from 3's. He is an effective scorer within the 3 point line. I'd say a good all around player and not a 3&D player.
I don't hate signing Pat (
assuming he can become a 3&D player), just too long of a deal and slightly over paid based upon his injury history.
At the end of the day, everyone is correct that Williams deal is okay for most every NBA team. People who do not follow the Bulls don't realize the financial constraints and how critical that every dollar be spent well.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on June 30, 2024, 08:32:30 AM
Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't read RS' post as complaining about what the players make.
You're wrong.
As for Pat Williams, I'm not gonna go back and try to find it, but weren't you concerned that the Bulls were gonna give him about twice as much as he eventually got? Isn't this - relatively speaking, anyway - a pretty team-friendly contract?
Quote from: MU82 on June 30, 2024, 07:31:52 PM
You're wrong.
As for Pat Williams, I'm not gonna go back and try to find it, but weren't you concerned that the Bulls were gonna give him about twice as much as he eventually got? Isn't this - relatively speaking, anyway - a pretty team-friendly contract?
There were multiple reports that Williams was looking for 5yr, $200M+. I was never really concerned the Bulls would do that, so I don't think the Bulls get a "pat" on the back for not giving him what he wanted. (it does make you wonder how firm a grip Williams has on reality)
The deal does not move the needle for 90% of NBA teams or the fans. Due to the Bulls' ultra restrictive financial situation, deals for
an often injured boarder-line starter on a bad team is a big deal.
The Bulls have nobody but themselves for creating a situation where they have to hit a homerun every time and get team friendly deals every time.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 01, 2024, 08:47:20 AM
There were multiple reports that Williams was looking for 5yr, $200M+. I was never really concerned the Bulls would do that, so I don't think the Bulls get a "pat" on the back for not giving him what he wanted. (it does make you wonder how firm a grip Williams has on reality)
The deal does not move the needle for 90% of NBA teams or the fans. Due to the Bulls' ultra restrictive financial situation, deals for an often injured boarder-line starter on a bad team is a big deal.
The Bulls have nobody but themselves for creating a situation where they have to hit a homerun every time and get team friendly deals every time.
What's the Bulls "ultra restrictive financial situation?" They've been in the top half of the league in payroll the past three years. We can argue that they should always been in the top half - I would agree! - but they're not scraping by to hit the cap floor.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 01, 2024, 08:47:20 AM
There were multiple reports that Williams was looking for 5yr, $200M+. I was never really concerned the Bulls would do that, so I don't think the Bulls get a "pat" on the back for not giving him what he wanted. (it does make you wonder how firm a grip Williams has on reality)
The deal does not move the needle for 90% of NBA teams or the fans. Due to the Bulls' ultra restrictive financial situation, deals for an often injured boarder-line starter on a bad team is a big deal.
The Bulls have nobody but themselves for creating a situation where they have to hit a homerun every time and get team friendly deals every time.
OK, thanks for the response. I look forward to your answer from Pakuni's follow-up question.
I think people get caught up in the numbers and don't really understand how much salaries have risen. Isn't Giannis making upwards of $50M a year?
As crazy as it might seem to us, I don't think $18M/year is a big sum in NBA circles.
Quote from: cheebs09 on July 01, 2024, 09:46:03 AM
I think people get caught up in the numbers and don't really understand how much salaries have risen. Isn't Giannis making upwards of $50M a year?
As crazy as it might seem to us, I don't think $18M/year is a big sum in NBA circles.
Exactly. Especially for a 22 year old who has been fairly productive for someone that young.
Another major pick-up for OKC with Hartenstein.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 01, 2024, 09:20:22 AM
What's the Bulls "ultra restrictive financial situation?" They've been in the top half of the league in payroll the past three years. We can argue that they should always been in the top half - I would agree! - but they're not scraping by to hit the cap floor.
I'll say this. The Bulls made their major push for a Championship in the past 3 years. They will not go above the cap even during their Championship window.
(Now is a good time to questions how the Bulls thought they were in a Championship window, but that is what the FO sold the "all in" strategy as, 3 years ago.)
Quote from: wadesworld on July 01, 2024, 10:12:38 AM
Exactly. Especially for a 22 year old who has been fairly productive for someone that young.
Yep. Williams is younger than a bunch of guys who got drafted last week (Kolek, Knecht, Shannon, Scheierman, Reeves, Newton, Larsson).
Williams hasn't been great, but he's the kind of piece you keep - especially at a reasonable price - when you're (crosses fingers) rebuilding.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 01, 2024, 10:33:46 AM
Yep. Williams is younger than a bunch of guys who got drafted last week (Kolek, Knecht, Shannon, Scheierman, Reeves, Newton, Larsson).
Williams hasn't been great, but he's the kind of piece you keep - especially at a reasonable price - when you're (crosses fingers) rebuilding.
I thought, based upon injuries and production, the contract should be 3, $45M. So It's not like I think he should be sent to the G-League.
Also, a lot of Bulls fans are more concerned with his effort than injuries, especially for a guy trying to establish himself and trying to get paid. There is a real possibility he could put it in cruse control now that he has $90M.
If the Bulls move old guys and get a top 5 pick, nobody will care much about Williams or his contract. Borderline starters on lottery teams don't deserve this amount of ink.
Look out boys. The Knicks and Sixers may have made some decent offseason moves so far, but the Bucks are killing it this offseason! Got 2 immediate contributors in the Draft and added Delon Wright and Stanley Umude. Can't think of a better start to the offseason for the Bucks.
The Bulls problems aren't giving Patrick Williams $18MM. The problems are moves like giving Lauri Markkanen for Derrick Jones Jr. (who they then let walk), a first, and a second.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 01, 2024, 02:14:12 PM
The Bulls problems aren't giving Patrick Williams $18MM. The problems are moves like giving Lauri Markkanen for Derrick Jones Jr. (who they then let walk), a first, and a second.
and....
giving LaVine a max contract for a guy who never wins..
trading for Ball who has a history of injuries..
giving up waaaaaay too much for Vuc and then doubling down with an extension..
trading for a guy like DeRozen when 3 point shooting is at a premium in the NBA..
hiring and giving a secret extension (so the public would not find out) to Donovan..
I can't think of another situation that a HC earned an extension but the team was too embarrassed to make it public.
So Klay is not going to be a Laker. Not surprised, the Lakers don't have a lot to sell without cap space or a great roster.
Klay is a real mystery to me. He could be great in Dallas or be a waste of money. I don't have a good feel for how it will play out.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 01, 2024, 03:27:14 PM
So Klay is not going to be a Laker. Not surprised, the Lakers don't have a lot to sell without cap space or a great roster.
Klay is a real mystery to me. He could be great in Dallas or be a waste of money. I don't have a good feel for how it will play out.
I think Klay is very much done as a "Big 3" piece, but as a spot-up shooter to work off Luka and Kyrie, he can be pretty effective.
The real question is what does this mean for OMax.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 01, 2024, 03:27:14 PM
So Klay is not going to be a Laker. Not surprised, the Lakers don't have a lot to sell without cap space or a great roster.
Klay is a real mystery to me. He could be great in Dallas or be a waste of money. I don't have a good feel for how it will play out.
I do. I rhymes with petite plaster.
Hopefully Tatum can pay his bills on just south of 63m per year. :)
Might be nothing, but seems like "something" that Cuban sold and now Grousbeck is putting the Celtics up for sale.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 01, 2024, 11:39:03 AM
Look out boys. The Knicks and Sixers may have made some decent offseason moves so far, but the Bucks are killing it this offseason! Got 2 immediate contributors in the Draft and added Delon Wright and Stanley Umude. Can't think of a better start to the offseason for the Bucks.
you got this absolutely right on!! still wondering what sloppy seconds will be left when the bucks wake up from their extended hibernation. and they've had ample time to meet with Giannis to see what he approves/disapproves of
Quote from: DegenerateDish on July 01, 2024, 09:22:53 PM
Might be nothing, but seems like "something" that Cuban sold and now Grousbeck is putting the Celtics up for sale.
Pigs get fed. Hogs get slaughtered.
Donovan Mitchell signs 3-year extension with the Cavs
Quote from: DegenerateDish on July 01, 2024, 09:22:53 PM
Might be nothing, but seems like "something" that Cuban sold and now Grousbeck is putting the Celtics up for sale.
And Grousbeck wants out right after giving Tatum the richest contract in NBA history (and one year after giving Brown the richest contract ever). It's only money!
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 02, 2024, 06:09:21 AM
you got this absolutely right on!! still wondering what sloppy seconds will be left when the bucks wake up from their extended hibernation. and they've had ample time to meet with Giannis to see what he approves/disapproves of
At the end of the day, if Giannis and/or Dame aren't healthy in the playoffs, there's not much that matters what the Bucks do in June.
I think the most likely move is trading Brook to get younger, but not sure his value.
I have to say I'd give the Bulls a 'B+' on the off season. Still could be a 'F' if DeRozen, LaVine and Vuc come back, but so far they have done well. All indications are they are committed to moving the "mid-three" so there is reason for hope in Chicago.
With the Jalen Smith signing they proved that a young(24) big with an injury history but with highly efficient shooting (40% from 3, 55% overall) and 10 ppg, 5 rpg and 1 apg is truly worth. $9M/yr. (looking at you, Pat Williams ;))
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 02, 2024, 09:05:43 AM
I have to say I'd give the Bulls a 'B+' on the off season. Still could be a 'F' if DeRozen, LaVine and Vuc come back, but so far they have done well. All indications are they are committed to moving the "mid-three" so there is reason for hope in Chicago.
With the Jalen Smith signing they proved that a young(24) big with an injury history but with highly efficient shooting (40% from 3, 55% overall) and 10 ppg, 5 rpg and 1 apg is truly worth. $9M/yr. (looking at you, Pat Williams ;))
Jury will be out on the Bulls until we learn what assets they need to attach to Lavine to get off of his contract
Quote from: GB Warrior on July 02, 2024, 09:52:07 AM
Jury will be out on the Bulls until we learn what assets they need to attach to Lavine to get off of his contract
Agreed. Definitely an incomplete grade at this point, but with 25% of the work done, I think they are doing well.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 02, 2024, 06:09:21 AM
you got this absolutely right on!! still wondering what sloppy seconds will be left when the bucks wake up from their extended hibernation. and they've had ample time to meet with Giannis to see what he approves/disapproves of
Chef's kiss to the group of scoopers deriding Giannis Antetokounmpo. You guys really know the NBA inside and out.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on July 02, 2024, 12:47:57 PM
Chef's kiss to the group of scoopers deriding Giannis Antetokounmpo. You guys really know the NBA inside and out.
He's been wildly successful as a Milwaukee Buck and has transcended sport. His impact on the community has been immeasurable, as great and probably greater than any cager or cager-affiliated person in the history of the sport with regard to this community.
An international superstar, his impact and reach is global and there is a subset of scooper who strongly dislikes this. The chances Milwaukee has a superstar that brings both a championship and positive impact within the community as deep as his isn't great. When he's gone, he'll be sorely missed.
It isn't basketball-related reasons people want him to fail on the court and be gone. It's far deeper than that.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 02, 2024, 12:59:55 PM
He's been wildly successful as a Milwaukee Buck and has transcended sport. His impact on the community has been immeasurable, as great and probably greater than any cager or cager-affiliated person in the history of the sport with regard to this community.
An international superstar, his impact and reach is global and there is a subset of scooper who strongly dislikes this. The chances Milwaukee has a superstar that brings both a championship and positive impact within the community as deep as his isn't great. When he's gone, he'll be sorely missed.
It isn't basketball-related reasons people want him to fail on the court and be gone. It's far deeper than that.
Giannis will finish his time in Milwaukee as the most valuable Buck in history and there's a good chance nobody will ever catch him. The Bucks were unbelievably fortunate to ever have him under contract, let alone extended.
These scoopers probably still refer to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar as Lew Alcindor. There's a hint to why they don't like Giannis.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on July 02, 2024, 01:29:03 PM
These scoopers probably still refer to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar as Lew Alcindor. There's a hint to why they don't like Giannis.
Anyone else remember Kareem converting to Greek? I completely missed it, but now I know.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 01, 2024, 11:39:03 AM
Look out boys. The Knicks and Sixers may have made some decent offseason moves so far, but the Bucks are killing it this offseason! Got 2 immediate contributors in the Draft and added Delon Wright and Stanley Umude. Can't think of a better start to the offseason for the Bucks.
Bucks really don't have a lot of options available to them. They can really only bring in players at vet minimums or find a willing sign and trade partner. In reality that really limits their choices. You aren't trading Giannis or Dame. Likely aren't trading Brook either.
So you either have to take someone's junk for Khris, or get some minor upgrades for Connaughton or Portis.
This sums it up well. The Bucks are who they are going to be.
https://www.brewhoop.com/2024/6/30/24189210/milwaukee-bucks-nba-free-agency-trade-rumors-brook-lopez-pat-connaughton-bobby-portis
Looks like the Lakers are done. Any new money moves them into the second apron of the cap.
If this is the end for LeBron, a playoff appearance would be fun, but looking like a Play In team so coin flip chance to make the Playoffs.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 03, 2024, 09:12:50 AM
Looks like the Lakers are done. Any new money moves them into the second apron of the cap.
If this is the end for LeBron, a playoff appearance would be fun, but looking like a Play In team so coin flip chance to make the Playoffs.
I thought it was funny, and laughable, that the Lakers came out and said that Bronny's contract was "earned through hard work."
There was no other team that would have drafted him, and he was only drafted by the Lakers to make Lebron happy. The entire world knows this, and its fine. Giannis' brothers made the NBA for the same reason.
Just accept it, don't try to pretend that somehow he "earned" this, it makes them look silly (not that they care).
Quote from: forgetful on July 03, 2024, 11:33:24 AM
I thought it was funny, and laughable, that the Lakers came out and said that Bronny's contract was "earned through hard work."
There was no other team that would have drafted him, and he was only drafted by the Lakers to make Lebron happy. The entire world knows this, and its fine. Giannis' brothers made the NBA for the same reason.
Just accept it, don't try to pretend that somehow he "earned" this, it makes them look silly (not that they care).
A few of them yes, but Giannis was averaging 6ppg when Thanasis was drafted. He's only still around to keep Giannis happy, but a lot of the online comparisons (not necessarily here) seem to forget that he actually made it on his own and ground out a G-League/overseas career before he became the most expensive hype man in the world. Whereas Bronny is only in the league at all because of his last name.
I'm happy for Bronny and his old man. What a thrill it'll be for them to play together.
A bunch of hand-wringing over nothing
Quote from: Its DJOver on July 03, 2024, 11:54:54 AM
A few of them yes, but Giannis was averaging 6ppg when Thanasis was drafted. He's only still around to keep Giannis happy, but a lot of the online comparisons (not necessarily here) seem to forget that he actually made it on his own and ground out a G-League/overseas career before he became the most expensive hype man in the world. Whereas Bronny is only in the league at all because of his last name.
Lots of people are in the NBA because of their last name.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 03, 2024, 11:57:08 AM
I'm happy for Bronny and his old man. What a thrill it'll be for them to play together.
A bunch of hand-wringing over nothing
Yep.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 03, 2024, 12:14:53 PM
Lots of people are in the NBA because of their last name.
As players? Like who?
Quote from: JWags85 on July 03, 2024, 12:21:39 PM
As players? Like who?
Didn't say players.
Nepotism in the league is only an issue when it involves players, I suppose.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 03, 2024, 01:20:24 PM
Didn't say players.
Nepotism in the league is only an issue when it involves players, I suppose.
The specific example I was talking about involved players. Your comment is related but not really relevant to my point.
Austin Rivers' longevity
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on July 03, 2024, 01:45:58 PM
Austin Rivers' longevity
Longevity sure. Throw in Seth Curry and plenty of others too, but they still made the League on their own merit.
If Bronny didn't have that last name he'd either be getting ready for another year at USC or, if he really wanted to be a pro, heading overseas.
Nothing wrong with that, everyone knows the game and how it's played. My original point was that people that compare him to Thanasis are missing the mark because Thanasis made the League before Giannis was a superstar. He had a career before he became a meme.
How many top 25 all time players were still able to be in an nba game, let alone relevant talent wise when their sons arrived at the nba age? It's a 1 of 1 scenario
Quote from: Its DJOver on July 03, 2024, 01:43:44 PM
The specific example I was talking about involved players. Your comment is related but not really relevant to my point.
OK, but when has this of situation ever presented itself? When was the last time an NBA superstar had a son old enough to play in the league?
Does anybody think that if Jordan's kids were old enough, and sticking one of them on the roster meant keeping MJ on the roster, it wouldn't have happened?
Guys, the majority of 2nd round picks are ass and exist only as some combination of cap filler or practice vibez guys. Whole lot of hand wringing over the nepo pick who probably sucks worse than the aforementioned but also keeps the star happy
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on July 03, 2024, 01:58:08 PM
How many top 25 all time players were still able to be in an nba game, let alone relevant talent wise when their sons arrived at the nba age? It's a 1 of 1 scenario
Yep. Total non-issue.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 03, 2024, 02:03:41 PM
OK, but when has this of situation ever presented itself? When was the last time an NBA superstar had a son old enough to play in the league?
Does anybody think that if Jordan's kids were old enough, and sticking one of them on the roster meant keeping MJ on the roster, it wouldn't have happened?
As I said, everyone knows the game and how it's played. I have no problem with that. I take exception to the comparisons to Thanasis because he made it before his last name guaranteed him a spot on the end of the bench.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 03, 2024, 01:20:24 PM
Didn't say players.
Nepotism in the league is only an issue when it involves players, I suppose.
I recognize it is widespread, and accept it as a reality of the world.
I just thought it was funny and laughable, that the Lakers tried to sell the idea that his contract/drafting was "earned."
I also recognize they can't just openly say, yes we are doing this only because of his dad, but maybe just don't respond.
Or if questioned on the matter simply say, that as an organization the only thing we focus on is assembling the best basketball team we can.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 03, 2024, 02:03:41 PM
OK, but when has this of situation ever presented itself? When was the last time an NBA superstar had a son old enough to play in the league?
Does anybody think that if Jordan's kids were old enough, and sticking one of them on the roster meant keeping MJ on the roster, it wouldn't have happened?
The bigger question would be if MJ would cut his son out of the will for scoring on him or making a mistake in practice.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 03, 2024, 02:03:41 PM
Does anybody think that if Jordan's kids were old enough, and sticking one of them on the roster meant keeping MJ on the roster, it wouldn't have happened?
It's not to deify MJ, but I don't even think he would have wanted it, if it wasn't meaningfully going to help them win. As Cheebs joked, he'd be way more likely to not stand for underperformance than rejoice in the vibes.
And for all the terrible performance of the Bobcats/Hornets under his ownership, he didn't install his kids in front office positions.
The amusing thing is Marcus put up fairly solid college numbers, certainly don't look as WTF on paper like Bronny.
Related, I don't think his kid is a hooper and he'd be 4-5 years too young, but I could see Chris Paul doing this too in a similar scenario.
I have no problem with Bronny given a spot.
I have no problem with legacy admissions to college.
I have no problem with nepotism.
Bronny getting drafted by the Lakers is no different than a kid with a 28 ACT getting into Yale because of dad's position. Except the Lakers pay better than Yale.
Bronny got 4yr, $8M contract. How much is TK going to get? 4Yr $10M?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 03, 2024, 08:10:05 PM
Bronny got 4yr, $8M contract. How much is TK going to get? 4Yr $10M?
Lakers easily making that back in eyeballs because of it
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 03, 2024, 08:10:05 PM
Bronny got 4yr, $8M contract. How much is TK going to get? 4Yr $10M?
You have a problem with Bronny getting a spot. And LeBron.
Looking forward to history being made.
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on July 03, 2024, 08:15:00 PM
Lakers easily making that back in eyeballs because of it
Agreed.
How will TK's contract match up?
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on July 03, 2024, 08:15:00 PM
Lakers easily making that back in eyeballs because of it
Doubt it. They are already reporting that he is going to sit at the end of the bench for the 1st week, then be relegated to the G-league.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 03, 2024, 08:10:05 PM
Bronny got 4yr, $8M contract. How much is TK going to get? 4Yr $10M?
If the Lakers want to waste money, that's their prerogative. It's not like the league created an extra roster spot for him or something.
the bucks have done chit since...when?? they haven't done anything to improve themselves while watching all the other contenders get stronger. Giannis throwing away another season and dame gonna still be home sick
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 04, 2024, 07:03:07 PM
the bucks have done chit since...when?? they haven't done anything to improve themselves while watching all the other contenders get stronger. Giannis throwing away another season and dame gonna still be home sick
Read this.
https://www.brewhoop.com/2024/6/30/24189210/milwaukee-bucks-nba-free-agency-trade-rumors-brook-lopez-pat-connaughton-bobby-portis
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 04, 2024, 08:01:49 PM
Read this.
https://www.brewhoop.com/2024/6/30/24189210/milwaukee-bucks-nba-free-agency-trade-rumors-brook-lopez-pat-connaughton-bobby-portis
He can't read but thanks for trying
Perhaps Scott Drew could read it to him over the phone during one of their nightly chats.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on July 04, 2024, 10:22:14 PM
Perhaps Scott Drew could read it to him over the phone during one of their nightly chats.
After Scott's trips to the brothel
Nobody wants DeRozen. I think he is still a top 35-40 player in the NBA but can't find a home. If you could get him at $20-25M, he seems to be a better value than Harden at $35M.
By all accounts he's a great team guy, always plays with 100% effort and a smart player on the court. Just strange he can't find a home.
I guess, paired with the fact that LaVine and Vuc are untradable, this speaks volumes about the Bulls' FO skills to evaluate talent. The Bulls built an "all-in", championship or bust team around 3 players nobody in the NBA likes.
Rumor, or maybe fact, is he turned down like 2yr/ $40M from the Bulls earlier this year. I don't think the Bulls have any offer for him now as they begin their tanking.... youth movement.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 03, 2024, 08:10:05 PM
Bronny got 4yr, $8M contract. How much is TK going to get? 4Yr $10M?
TK came in at 4Yr / $9M. Not too far off.
And people thought I was hating on the Lakers. I was just using Bronny as a measuring stick (just the facts).
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 05, 2024, 07:06:21 AM
After Scott's trips to the brothel
Isn't he the deeply Christian guy that covered up rapes at Baylor and moralized about affairs while having his own extramarital affair?
Oh wait, no, that was Ken Starr. I get the Baylor faux Christians mixed up.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 05, 2024, 10:27:45 AM
Nobody wants DeRozen. I think he is still a top 35-40 player in the NBA but can't find a home. If you could get him at $20-25M, he seems to be a better value than Harden at $35M.
3 years/$74 million with the Kings.
Great city, mediocre city, great city, now another mediocre city. Hopefully he can get a token one year with the Clippers to end his career in a high in his hometown.
In basketball terms, not sure how he fits with the style the Kings play, but veteran star leadership to help Barnes guide Sabonis, Fox, and Murray can't hurt
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 06, 2024, 06:12:34 PM
TK came in at 4Yr / $9M. Not too far off.
And people thought I was hating on the Lakers. I was just using Bronny as a measuring stick (just the facts).
Kolek is 10x the basketball player Bronny is. So using Bronny as your measuring stick, Kolek should've got a much larger contract.
Sperm lotteries matta, aina?
Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on July 06, 2024, 08:54:49 PM
Isn't he the deeply Christian guy that covered up rapes at Baylor and moralized about affairs while having his own extramarital affair?
Oh wait, no, that was Ken Starr. I get the Baylor faux Christians mixed up.
always seeing the good in people while painting with that broad brush. maybe if you stayed closer to home, check yourself, then re post. don't think any of these showered with their daughters or took in millions without paying their "fair shares"
once again you continue to reveal your idiocy
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 07, 2024, 07:25:26 AM
always seeing the good in people while painting with that broad brush. maybe if you stayed closer to home, check yourself, then re post. don't think any of these showered with their daughters or took in millions without paying their "fair shares"
once again you continue to reveal your idiocy
In my humble opinion, no school represents the true values of Christianity better than Baylor
So now the Bulls are officially in tear-down-and-rebuild mode. And that's probably long overdue.
The really good news for Bulls fans is that the team is reducing prices for tickets, concessions and parking to reflect expectations of less competitiveness on the court.
Quote from: MU82 on July 07, 2024, 07:37:00 AM
So now the Bulls are officially in tear-down-and-rebuild mode. And that's probably long overdue.
The really good news for Bulls fans is that the team is reducing prices for tickets, concessions and parking to reflect expectations of less competitiveness on the court.
These are all free will transactions that the public doesn't have to engage in if they don't want to pay.
Quote from: MU82 on July 07, 2024, 07:37:00 AM
So now the Bulls are officially in tear-down-and-rebuild mode. And that's probably long overdue.
The really good news for Bulls fans is that the team is reducing prices for tickets, concessions and parking to reflect expectations of less competitiveness on the court.
Beats watching them compete for the play-in-game
Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 07, 2024, 05:01:35 AM
Sperm lotteries matta, aina?
Know any posters on this board this applies to? 🤔
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 07, 2024, 07:47:39 AM
These are all free will transactions that the public doesn't have to engage in if they don't want to pay.
True. Nobody should b!tch about, poke fun at or comment on anything about which they have a choice. Which means social media, including Scoop, cease to exist. Probably not the worst thing.
Quote from: MU82 on July 07, 2024, 08:41:49 AM
True. Nobody should b!tch about, poke fun at or comment on anything about which they have a choice. Which means social media, including Scoop, cease to exist. Probably not the worst thing.
Yes. Trotting out the tired old sports-writer's trope of "BUT THE TICKET PRICES!!!" is so much better.
Quote from: MU82 on July 07, 2024, 07:37:00 AM
So now the Bulls are officially in tear-down-and-rebuild mode. And that's probably long overdue.
The really good news for Bulls fans is that the team is reducing prices for tickets, concessions and parking to reflect expectations of less competitiveness on the court.
Yes. Finally. Apparently they received my memo. :)
Quote from: Pakuni on July 06, 2024, 09:41:17 PM
3 years/$74 million with the Kings.
Good for DeRozen. Good for the Bulls.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 06, 2024, 10:49:42 PM
Kolek is 10x the basketball player Bronny is. So using Bronny as your measuring stick, Kolek should've got a much larger contract.
Looking strictly at draft positions, TK's deal makes sense.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 07, 2024, 08:13:37 AM
Know any posters on this board this applies to? 🤔
Hahahahaha
My long overdue cash considerations bulls Jersey should be arriving soon
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on July 07, 2024, 10:16:45 AM
My long overdue cash considerations bulls Jersey should be arriving soon
Jerry's favorite Bulls players of all time: 1. Cash Considerations 2. Michael Jordan
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 07, 2024, 08:47:17 AM
Yes. Trotting out the tired old sports-writer's trope of "BUT THE TICKET PRICES!!!" is so much better.
Thanks, officer. 👮
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 07, 2024, 08:47:17 AM
Yes. Trotting out the tired old sports-writer's trope of "BUT THE TICKET PRICES!!!" is so much better.
Correct. It is.
Quote from: MU82 on July 07, 2024, 10:41:38 AM
Thanks, officer. 👮
Weak. You're having a bad morning.
Congrats to Giannis on helping lead Greece to their first appearance as a basketball team in the Olympics since 2008.
NBA MVP, NBA Champ and now an Olympian.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 07, 2024, 05:41:38 PM
Congrats to Giannis on helping lead Greece to their first appearance as a basketball team in the Olympics since 2008.
NBA MVP, NBA Champ and now an Olympian.
Greece shoulda traded his azz to another country.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 07, 2024, 08:13:37 AM
Know any posters on this board this applies to? 🤔
Pulled himself up by the bootstraps. No helping hand. Self-made.
Not sure how I feel about Ant's comments and his role on the Olympic team.
Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on July 06, 2024, 08:54:49 PM
while having his own extramarital affair?
Oh wait, no, that was Ken Starr. I get the Baylor faux Christians mixed up.
There were two women on the planet that wanted to sleep with Ken Starr?
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 07, 2024, 07:25:26 AM
don't think any of these showered with their daughters
Better than taking it where the sun don't shine like you do on this board everyday.
Probably a way too early question, but I'll ask anyway. Who is going to be a bigger bust: Filipowski or Bronny?
According to The Athletic, Cooper Flagg - the 17-year-old Duke recruit who is on the team scrimmaging against the U.S. Olympians - was the star yesterday.
Quote from: MU82 on July 09, 2024, 07:05:38 AM
According to The Athletic, Cooper Flagg - the 17-year-old Duke recruit who is on the team scrimmaging against the U.S. Olympians - was the star yesterday.
I just read that. By all accounts he's the real deal.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 09, 2024, 08:33:58 AM
I just read that. By all accounts he's the real deal.
He sucks
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 09, 2024, 04:25:22 AM
Probably a way too early question, but I'll ask anyway. Who is going to be a bigger bust: Filipowski or Bronny?
IMO, Bronny can't be a bust. Based upon draft position and, more importantly, the overwhelming opinion of his game, he can only be a pleasant surprise if he is in the NBA after his dad retires.
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 09, 2024, 04:25:22 AM
Probably a way too early question, but I'll ask anyway. Who is going to be a bigger bust: Filipowski or Bronny?
Define bust. This was a weak draft and the majority of guys drafted end up being "busts".
Right. While there are obvious outliers, second round picks will usually hang in the league for a few seasons then head elsewhere to ply their trade. I expect Bronny and Filipowski would be within that bell-curve.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 09, 2024, 08:42:23 AM
IMO, Bronny can't be a bust. Based upon draft position and, more importantly, the overwhelming opinion of his game, he can only be a pleasant surprise if he is in the NBA after his dad retires.
3 years guaranteed. Quite the hype from all of the media outlets. If he doesn't play any meaningful minutes, I would consider that a bust.
Filpowski had 2 years ? of eligibility left. If he doesn't stick, I would consider that a bust.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 09, 2024, 08:43:45 AM
Define bust. This was a weak draft and the majority of guys drafted end up being "busts".
Yea, I don't think either would be a "bust" regardless of NBA career. That being said, last night aside, I'm gonna bet on the 7 footer who can shoot from deep and who averaged 17/8/3 on an E8 team over the very undersized shooting guard who is actually a WORSE shooter than Filipowski.
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 09, 2024, 08:56:45 AM
3 years guaranteed. Quite the hype from all of the media outlets. If he doesn't play any meaningful minutes, I would consider that a bust.
Most second-rounders are getting contracts in that range.
The hype is only because of the existence of his pops; I haven't read many accounts hyping up his game.
Just about any second-rounder who actually becomes a long-term solid player is going against the norm. So I would hesitate to define Bronny not working out as a "bust."
Privileged, hey?
Quote from: MU82 on July 09, 2024, 09:53:30 AM
Most second-rounders are getting contracts in that range.
Not at the 55th pick
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 09, 2024, 10:09:09 AM
Not at the 55th pick
The Bucks took Chris Livingston with the 58th pick last year and gave him a 4 year, $7.6MM contract. And he's not the son of one of the two best players to ever play the game, and his father wasn't a free agent the Bucks were hoping to keep on their team.
I'm sure the Buss family greatly appreciates how concerned some Scoopers are over how they're spending their spare change.
If the Lakers want to waste a second round pick on someone just because he's Lebron's kid, who cares? There's all sorts of examples of nepotism in sports. Just add this to the list.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 09, 2024, 10:38:21 AM
I'm sure the Buss family greatly appreciates how concerned some Scoopers are over how they're spending their spare change.
I know for a fact that some Lakers fans are not happy with the pick and use of salary cap.
As for the Buss family and James family, they are loving this. This is the business of getting eyeballs. They play it well. The actually do appreciate these posts.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 09, 2024, 10:59:55 AM
I know for a fact that some Lakers fans are not happy with the pick and use of salary cap.
As for the Buss family and James family, they are loving this. This is the business of getting eyeballs. They play it well. The actually do appreciate these posts.
Then they shouldn't go to the games or buy Lakers merch.
I'm glad you don't care about Bronny or Lebron
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 09, 2024, 10:59:55 AM
I know for a fact that some Lakers fans are not happy with the pick and use of salary cap.
As for the Buss family and James family, they are loving this. This is the business of getting eyeballs. They play it well. The actually do appreciate these posts.
Which of Kevin McCullar Jr., Ulrich Chomche, or Ariel Hukporti are those Lakers fans that you know super pissed they missed out on the chance of taking over Bronny? Because those were the only three players that were Drafted after the Lakers' selection. They could've signed any other player they passed up on as an UDFA.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 09, 2024, 10:27:03 AM
The Bucks took Chris Livingston with the 58th pick last year and gave him a 4 year, $7.6MM contract. And he's not the son of one of the two best players to ever play the game, and his father wasn't a free agent the Bucks were hoping to keep on their team.
Same agent as Bronny.
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 09, 2024, 11:13:50 AM
Same agent as Bronny.
Right. So seems like it isn't just LBJ's son that gets multiyear deals as late second round draft picks.
TJD signed a 4 year deal with the Warriors after being selected 57th overall in last year's Draft. Toumani Camara signed a 4 year deal with the Suns after being selected 52nd overall in last year's Draft.
It USED to be unheard of for second rounders, especially late second rounders, to get guaranteed money. It's becoming much more common now.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 09, 2024, 10:59:55 AM
I know for a fact that some Lakers fans are not happy with the pick and use of salary cap.
It's like 1% of the cap.
Looking forward to history being made.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 09, 2024, 11:14:39 AM
Right. So seems like it isn't just LBJ's son that gets multiyear deals as late second round draft picks.
TJD signed a 4 year deal with the Warriors after being selected 57th overall in last year's Draft. Toumani Camara signed a 4 year deal with the Suns after being selected 52nd overall in last year's Draft.
It USED to be unheard of for second rounders, especially late second rounders, to get guaranteed money. It's becoming much more common now.
Yeah. I guess my original question was unclear. I meant bust as in who would have the worst NBA career. Not relative to their contract.
Quote from: tower912 on July 09, 2024, 11:22:24 AM
Looking forward to history being made.
Same. Also looking forward to all the people that don't care about Lebron or Bronny commenting on it.
Pops is in the GOAT conversation. He wants to play with his kid. Fair. Is this actually worse than the contortions that franchises have gone through to please AR?
Quote from: tower912 on July 09, 2024, 11:27:24 AM
Pops is in the GOAT conversation. He wants to play with his kid. Fair. Is this actually worse than the contortions that franchises have gone through to please AR?
They're both detrimental to fielding the best roster. The Lakers haven't tried fielding the best roster in quite awhile or severely miscalculated the talent they've placed around Lebron and AD.
The Packers were immediately better dumping AR. Will the Lakers be better immediately dumping Lebron? Hard to say. Maybe because it's still a glamour franchise
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 09, 2024, 10:59:55 AM
I know for a fact that some Lakers fans are not happy with the pick and use of salary cap.
As for the Buss family and James family, they are loving this. This is the business of getting eyeballs. They play it well. The actually do appreciate these posts.
Of all the dozen issues the Lakers have, drafting Bronny and signing him to a guaranteed contract ranks about 13th. If that's what they are not happy with, it is misdirected anger.
I mean, signing Thannasis is a complete waste of a roster sport, but I understand why the Bucks do it.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 09, 2024, 11:32:38 AM
They're both detrimental to fielding the best roster. The Lakers haven't tried fielding the best roster in quite awhile or severely miscalculated the talent they've placed around Lebron and AD.
The Packers were immediately better dumping AR. Will the Lakers be better immediately dumping Lebron? Hard to say. Maybe because it's still a glamour franchise
The blessing and curse of the Lakers is that it's the most star-driven franchise in the most star-driven sport.
That's to their benefit because there are always going to be superstar players willing and eager to force their way to LA (Shaq, Gasol, Howard, LeBron, AD).
On the downside, nobody in the fanbase will care if you don't have superstars, and nobody will tolerate a rebuild. They tried it with Lonzo, Randle, Kuzma, Ingram, etc., and nobody showed up.
So, even if it isn't always the best on-court decision - see: Steve Nash-Dwight Howard pairing - the Lakers personnel decisions always will be built around keeping superstar players around and happy.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 09, 2024, 12:02:51 PM
The blessing and curse of the Lakers is that it's the most star-driven franchise in the most star-driven sport.
That's to their benefit because there are always going to be superstar players willing and eager to force their way to LA (Shaq, Gasol, Howard, LeBron, AD).
On the downside, nobody in the fanbase will care if you don't have superstars, and nobody will tolerate a rebuild. They tried it with Lonzo, Randle, Kuzma, Ingram, etc., and nobody showed up.
So, even if it isn't always the best on-court decision - see: Steve Nash-Dwight Howard pairing - the Lakers personnel decisions always will be built around keeping superstar players around and happy.
Treating your stars well helps sign free agents in the future. Look at how stars have avoided Chicago because of the way the org has acted in the past. They very well could just be prepping for the next era with Lebron in the front office or something.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 09, 2024, 10:16:11 AM
Know anyone on scoop like that, hey?
Ridiculous question. Just about all living Scoopers are white. And white people are never privileged; they always earn what they get. It's the others who have had it easy in America for centuries.
Quote from: MU82 on July 09, 2024, 12:13:54 PM
Ridiculous question. Just about all living Scoopers are white. And white people are never privileged; they always earn what they get. It's the others who have had it easy in America for centuries.
I attribute my successes to the long hours I've put into Scoop
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 09, 2024, 11:32:38 AM
They're both detrimental to fielding the best roster. The Lakers haven't tried fielding the best roster in quite awhile or severely miscalculated the talent they've placed around Lebron and AD.
BINGO. I dislike the delusion of some people thinking that Bronny was ever a lottery pick or that he's gonna shock the world due to some weird "people don't believe in him" that Lebron stans are conjuring up, but this is pretty par for the course for the Lakers front office for the last 5 years. Everything has been built around catering to Lebron as assistant GM, for better or for worse. If he wanted them to trade Austin Reeves and Hachimura to free up space for Melo to come back, they probably would.
There is a reason, save for the uniqueness of the bubble season, that they've never finished better than 7th in the West despite having 2 megastars. They will sell a ton of tickets and generate tons of buzz, but there is nothing to suggest this team is going to be any better until Lebron retires, regardless of nepotism or otherwise.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 09, 2024, 12:02:51 PM
On the downside, nobody in the fanbase will care if you don't have superstars, and nobody will tolerate a rebuild. They tried it with Lonzo, Randle, Kuzma, Ingram, etc., and nobody showed up.
If that rebuild would have been successful, they would have shown up. They drafted and developed Magic and Kobe, so that franchise has done it in the past. They could do so again, but I think their "we have to have stars" mindset is limiting their thinking.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 09, 2024, 01:11:00 PM
If that rebuild would have been successful, they would have shown up. They drafted and developed Magic and Kobe, so that franchise has done it in the past. They could do so again, but I think their "we have to have stars" mindset is limiting their thinking.
They drafted and developed Magic with team that had won about 60% of their games the previous three seasons and already had multiple stars (Kareem, Wilkes, Nixon). And Adrian Dantley was with them the year before Magic. Not a rebuild.
They drafted and developed Kobe to a team that already had Shaq and multiple other all-stars (Ceballos, Eddie Jones, Van Exel) plus aging stars (Kersey, Scott). Not a rebuild.
These situations just aren't remotely similar to what they tried to do in the years between Kobe and LeBron, when they had no stars and tried go young.
Giannis will be one of Greece's flag bearers at the upcoming opening ceremonies of the Olympics. Another great moment for the Milwaukee native and ambassador
My point is if they had been successful at going young, and the team won in the process, people would have showed up at the games.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 09, 2024, 01:36:33 PM
My point is if they had been successful at going young, and the team won in the process, people would have showed up at the games.
My point is they didn't give it a chance to to be successful - Ball, Ingram and Deangelo Russell all lasted three years or less, Randle lasted four - because the team and city don't have the patience for it. It's not in the franchise's DNA. Or at least hasn't been since Dr. Buss bought it.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 09, 2024, 11:11:52 AM
Then they shouldn't go to the games or buy Lakers merch.
I'm glad you don't care about Bronny or Lebron
I don't care Bronny has been treated differently than others because of his dad.
I like the NBA and LeBron has been fun to watch. I do care that it looks like the Lakers are not setup to compete in maybe his last year. Not a Lakers fan but it would be nice to se him compete in the playoffs one last time.
I hope people are able to separate Bronny the person from this situation. By all accounts, he's a really good kid and he knows he got this opportunity because of his dad. And he's going to work his ass off daily to try to capitalize it and turn it into a long NBA career. He's not just riding coattails.
If he sticks in the league for 10-15 years as a backup PG it'll be because he's a contributor and I hope people can find it in themselves to be happy for him.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 09, 2024, 11:33:05 AM
Of all the dozen issues the Lakers have, drafting Bronny and signing him to a guaranteed contract ranks about 13th. If that's what they are not happy with, it is misdirected anger.
I mean, signing Thannasis is a complete waste of a roster sport, but I understand why the Bucks do it.
Yeah, every playa should have their personal bellhop, aina?
Quote from: BM1090 on July 09, 2024, 02:03:44 PM
I hope people are able to separate Bronny the person from this situation. By all accounts, he's a really good kid and he knows he got this opportunity because of his dad. And he's going to work his ass off daily to try to capitalize it and turn it into a long NBA career. He's not just riding coattails.
If he sticks in the league for 10-15 years as a backup PG it'll be because he's a contributor and I hope people can find it in themselves to be happy for him.
Well, I mean, he is just riding his father's coattails. Which is fine, but people acting like that's not what's happening are just insulting other peoples' intelligence. If Bronny James was not LeBron James's son, he would not be in the NBA. That's just reality.
Could he develop into a true NBA player over the next couple of years? It's possible. But he isn't right now.
Quote from: BM1090 on July 09, 2024, 02:03:44 PM
I hope people are able to separate Bronny the person from this situation. By all accounts, he's a really good kid and he knows he got this opportunity because of his dad. And he's going to work his ass off daily to try to capitalize it and turn it into a long NBA career. He's not just riding coattails.
If he sticks in the league for 10-15 years as a backup PG it'll be because he's a contributor and I hope people can find it in themselves to be happy for him.
I don't follow all the traffic on the internet concerning Bronny. What I have heard and read in the media reflects your observation. Great young man and a hard worker. I haven't seen or heard personal attacks. I agree with you and hope it stay that way.
Face it, if LeBron left the Lakers because Bronny wasn't there, the team would get 100X more criticism than they are now for taking Bronny. I think you could fairly argue he could have been signed as an undrafted FA and preserved a draft choice, but that's a minor sticking point. I think the Lakers did fine with this.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 09, 2024, 02:31:18 PM
Well, I mean, he is just riding his father's coattails. Which is fine, but people acting like that's not what's happening are just insulting other peoples' intelligence. If Bronny James was not LeBron James's son, he would not be in the NBA. That's just reality.
I confess to having not read every bit of Bronny discourse online, but who out there is legitimately arguing that Bronny being selected by the Lakers was not because of his dad?
Quote from: Pakuni on July 09, 2024, 03:58:36 PM
I confess to having not read every bit of Bronny discourse online, but who out there is legitimately arguing that Bronny being selected by the Lakers was not because of his dad?
https://x.com/killakow/status/1138292190101364737?s=46&t=G2FhP_F2kWewaBOpvRv5lg
Quote from: Pakuni on July 09, 2024, 03:58:36 PM
I confess to having not read every bit of Bronny discourse online, but who out there is legitimately arguing that Bronny being selected by the Lakers was not because of his dad?
Well the Lakers brass and Bronny's agent and some of LeBron's friends in the media have tried to argue he was worthy of being drafted. Those people don't really have a choice in the matter.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 09, 2024, 03:58:36 PM
I confess to having not read every bit of Bronny discourse online, but who out there is legitimately arguing that Bronny being selected by the Lakers was not because of his dad?
The post I quoted said about Bronny, "He's not just riding coattails." I'm sure Bronny is a great kid, I'm sure he does work his ass off. Those things don't make one an NBA player. Bronny is the definition of "riding someone's coattails." Which again, is fine! I'm perfectly fine with the Bucks keeping Thenasis on the roster to keep little bro happy. It's business. And maybe in the future Bronny proves to be more than that. But, no matter how hard he works or how good of a kid he is, he's in the NBA only by riding his father's coattails.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 09, 2024, 03:55:53 PM
I don't follow all the traffic on the internet concerning Bronny. What I have heard and read in the media reflects your observation. Great young man and a hard worker. I haven't seen or heard personal attacks. I agree with you and hope it stay that way.
Face it, if LeBron left the Lakers because Bronny wasn't there, the team would get 100X more criticism than they are now for taking Bronny. I think you could fairly argue he could have been signed as an undrafted FA and preserved a draft choice, but that's a minor sticking point. I think the Lakers did fine with this.
I watched an interview on the Today Show with LeBron. He said the greatest accomplishment of his career would be to play with his son. I don't think "accomplishment" was the right word - maybe thrill, satisfaction or something else would have been more accurate. The point, though, is that he's very proud of his son and playing with him is REALLY important to LeBron. I think that's a good thing.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 09, 2024, 02:31:18 PM
Well, I mean, he is just riding his father's coattails. Which is fine, but people acting like that's not what's happening are just insulting other peoples' intelligence. If Bronny James was not LeBron James's son, he would not be in the NBA. That's just reality.
Could he develop into a true NBA player over the next couple of years? It's possible. But he isn't right now.
What I'm saying is that his dad got him in the door, but if he sticks it'll be because he deserves it. Obviously he would not have been drafted if it weren't for his dad, but that has nothing to do with what I said. In the initial post I said he's in the NBA because of his dad but IF he sticks, he's not just riding coattails at that point.
Quote from: BM1090 on July 09, 2024, 09:09:10 PM
What I'm saying is that his dad got him in the door, but if he sticks it'll be because he deserves it. Obviously he would not have been drafted if it weren't for his dad, but that has nothing to do with what I said. In the initial post I said he's in the NBA because of his dad but IF he sticks, he's not just riding coattails at that point.
Depends if his dad becomes GM, and signs Bronny.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 09, 2024, 06:23:55 PM
I watched an interview on the Today Show with LeBron. He said the greatest accomplishment of his career would be to play with his son. I don't think "accomplishment" was the right word - maybe thrill, satisfaction or something else would have been more accurate. The point, though, is that he's very proud of his son and playing with him is REALLY important to LeBron. I think that's a good thing.
Outstanding post.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 09, 2024, 06:23:55 PM
I watched an interview on the Today Show with LeBron. He said the greatest accomplishment of his career would be to play with his son. I don't think "accomplishment" was the right word - maybe thrill, satisfaction or something else would have been more accurate. The point, though, is that he's very proud of his son and playing with him is REALLY important to LeBron. I think that's a good thing.
And for some parents it is REALLY important that their children attend the same college or work at the same company as them. That is a good thing too?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 10, 2024, 08:35:10 AM
And for some parents it is REALLY important that their children attend the same college or work at the same company as them. That is a good thing too?
Maybe...maybe not.
Why are you so fired up about this? In the end, it's pretty meaningless.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 10, 2024, 08:43:16 AM
Maybe...maybe not.
Why are you so fired up about this? In the end, it's pretty meaningless.
So it may not be a good thing for Bronny to get to play with his dad?
I say good from the James family. I don't know why you think it might not be a good thing.
But, as you accurately state, in the end it's pretty meaningless.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 10, 2024, 09:06:33 AM
So it may not be a good thing for Bronny to get to play with his dad?
I was answering your other hypothetical. Not addressing Bronny at all.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 10, 2024, 08:43:16 AM
Maybe...maybe not.
Why are you so fired up about this? In the end, it's pretty meaningless.
He doesn't care about Bronny or Lebron. Just ask him
Bronny was a 5 star recruit. Scouts rave that he plays the right way, is unselfish, etc.
He's not going to embarass himself on a NBA court and it's not inconceivable that other teams would take a flyer on a former 5 star at 55.
Quote from: The Lens on July 10, 2024, 09:21:05 AM
Bronny was a 5 star recruit. Scouts rave that he plays the right way, is unselfish, etc.
He's not going to embarass himself on a NBA court and it's not inconceivable that other teams would take a flyer on a former 5 star at 55.
Adonis Arms (best name in basketball) begs to differ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkGkZ-zF4yo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkGkZ-zF4yo)
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 10, 2024, 09:41:30 AM
Adonis Arms (best name in basketball) begs to differ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkGkZ-zF4yo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkGkZ-zF4yo)
We seriously going to do this on a summer league game?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 10, 2024, 09:44:18 AM
We seriously going to do this on a summer league game?
Yes. He embarassed himself the first game. Will he improve? Yes. Will he improve enough to get minutes on his own? who knows?
Quote from: The Lens on July 10, 2024, 09:21:05 AM
Bronny was a 5 star recruit. Scouts rave that he plays the right way, is unselfish, etc.
He's not going to embarass himself on a NBA court and it's not inconceivable that other teams would take a flyer on a former 5 star at 55.
He really wasn't. He was a 40-50 range player before getting buzzed up by ESPN and what not and he didn't even end up in the top 25. He wouldn't have been a McDs AA if his name was Brian Johnson.
He was basically right about where Vander was in the recruit rankings and freshman year production. Nobody would have been taking a flier on Vander cause his recruit ranking.
Again, its not that big of a deal, its cool for Lebron and a nice story, but we don't need to be making up nonsense justification narratives to make this something its not.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 10, 2024, 09:44:18 AM
We seriously going to do this on a summer league game?
Derrick Rose scored only 10 points while committing 5 turnovers in his Summer League debut. His first shot was an air ball. He would go on to average 9.5 ppg in the Summer League that year.
In that same game, #2 pick Michael Beasley scored 28 points and added 9 boards in 23 minutes. And yeah, people were already questioning the Bulls' decision to take Rose over Beasley.
Just goes to show how important these games are.
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 10, 2024, 09:48:26 AM
Yes. He embarassed himself the first game. Will he improve? Yes. Will he improve enough to get minutes on his own? who knows?
He didn't "embarrass" himself - I don't think you *can* embarrass yourself in an NBA summer league game unless your shorts fall down. Anyway, my guess is that he is no different than dozens of other NBA rookies who don't figure things out right away.
Look, I don't think he's that good, but spending eight minutes on a second round pick's summer league game is a bit much.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 10, 2024, 09:55:22 AM
Derrick Rose scored only 10 points while committing 5 turnovers in his Summer League debut. His first shot was an air ball. He would go on to average 9.5 ppg in the Summer League that year.
In that same game, #2 pick Michael Beasley scored 28 points and added 9 boards in 23 minutes. And yeah, people were already questioning the Bulls' decision to take Rose over Beasley.
Just goes to show how important these games are.
Derrick Rose only played 2 summer league games.He showed enough in those two games in driving to the hoop and running the offense to not need to play anymore. The games aren't important for 1st rounders.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 10, 2024, 09:57:31 AM
He didn't "embarrass" himself - I don't think you *can* embarrass yourself in an NBA summer league game unless your shorts fall down. Anyway, my guess is that he is no different than dozens of other NBA rookies who don't figure things out right away.
Look, I don't think he's that good, but spending eight minutes on a second round pick's summer league game is a bit much.
How about falling down trying to guard a guy?
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 10, 2024, 10:14:51 AM
How about falling down trying to guard a guy?
[/quTBD.
Worked for OMax.
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 10, 2024, 10:14:20 AM
Derrick Rose only played 2 summer league games.He showed enough in those two games in driving to the hoop and running the offense to not need to play anymore. The games aren't important for 1st rounders.
You're making my point for me. No one should make a big deal about Summer League play, and certainly not one game of Summer League play.
And these games aren't important to anyone who doesn't need a camp invite.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 10, 2024, 10:20:41 AM
You're making my point for me. No one should make a big deal about Summer League play, and certainly not one game of Summer League play.
And these games aren't important to anyone who doesn't need a camp invite.
No, you're actually comparing Bronny to Derrick Rose, the #1 draft choice. Bronny is nowhere close to Rose's ability, or his resume going into the NBA
I actually think these games are pretty important to Bronny. If he sucks as bad as he did the first game, the pressure will mount, and more people will complain about the pick
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 10, 2024, 10:38:16 AM
No, you're actually comparing Bronny to Derrick Rose, the #1 draft choice. Bronny is nowhere close to Rose's ability, or his resume going into the NBA
I actually think these games are pretty important to Bronny. If he sucks as bad as he did the first game, the pressure will mount, and more people will complain about the pick
As long as he's not a rapist like Derrick Rose, he's already better
What pressure? Bronny has a 4 year guaranteed contract. His father has more money than anyone could imagine having. Nobody is expecting that he will get any meaningful minutes for the Lakers, outside of a couple sentimental minutes that he gets to share on the court with his father at the same time. Anybody upset about "wasting" the 55th pick are irrational. You don't expect to get anything productive with the 4th last pick in a Draft.
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 10, 2024, 10:38:16 AM
No, you're actually comparing Bronny to Derrick Rose, the #1 draft choice. Bronny is nowhere close to Rose's ability, or his resume going into the NBA
I actually think these games are pretty important to Bronny. If he sucks as bad as he did the first game, the pressure will mount, and more people will complain about the pick
Yeah, there won't be any pressure based on summer league performance. That's just silly.
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 10, 2024, 10:38:16 AM
No, you're actually comparing Bronny to Derrick Rose, the #1 draft choice. Bronny is nowhere close to Rose's ability, or his resume going into the NBA .
No, I'm not. I'm pointing out out that Summer League games - and certainly not one Summer League game - don't foretell a players' future.
Quote
I actually think these games are pretty important to Bronny. If he sucks as bad as he did the first game, the pressure will mount, and more people will complain about the pick
Oh no, people will complain. That is serious stuff.
How exactly would people complaining affect Bronny's future? Will it make his jump shot worse? Weaken his defense? Lessen his handles?
Do you think Bronny spends his free time perusing Scoop and other online forums to see what anonymous commenters are saying about his Summer League performance?
Quote from: Pakuni on July 10, 2024, 10:53:42 AM
No, I'm not. I'm pointing out out that Summer League games - and certainly not one Summer League game - don't foretell a players' future.
Oh no, people will complain. That is serious stuff.
How exactly would people complaining affect Bronny's future? Will it make his jump shot worse? Weaken his defense? Lessen his handles?
Do you think Bronny spends his free time perusing Scoop and other online forums to see what anonymous commenters are saying about his Summer League performance?
I am talking about teammates, and those on the G league team that could/should be taking his spot, you know those guys that actually need these jobs
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 10, 2024, 10:56:35 AM
I am talking about teammates, and those on the G league team that could/should be taking his spot, you know those guys that actually need these jobs
Oh no...the guy at the end of the bench might be mad. Whatever will he do.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 10, 2024, 11:06:24 AM
Oh no...the guy at the end of the bench might be mad. Whatever will he do.
Actually Bronny would be at the end of the becnh, it would be the 9, 10, 11th man. And when Bronny is in, if he can't run an offense, or play PnR defense, it affects everyone who he is playing with.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 10, 2024, 10:46:25 AM
As long as he's not a rapist like Derrick Rose, he's already better
i heard george clooney is asking him to drop out cuz he just doesn't have it
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 10, 2024, 11:12:55 AM
i heard george clooney is asking him to drop out cuz he just doesn't have it
Don't.
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 10, 2024, 10:56:35 AM
I am talking about teammates, and those on the G league team that could/should be taking his spot, you know those guys that actually need these jobs
I'm going to guess that Bronny and Lakers' management aren't terribly concerned about the feelings of G-Leaguers who think they're more deserving.
In fact, I would imagine every NBA team has G-Leaguers who think they're more deserving than the 13th through 15th guys on the roster.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 10, 2024, 11:17:39 AM
I'm going to guess that Bronny and Lakers' management aren't terribly concerned about the feelings of G-Leaguers who think they're more deserving.
In fact, I would imagine every NBA team has G-Leaguers who think they're more deserving than the 13th through 15th guys on the roster.
What about those on the active roster that are losing minutes to a player with much lesser abilities? Decided to skip that part?
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 10, 2024, 11:33:48 AM
What about those on the active roster that are losing minutes to a player with much lesser abilities? Decided to skip that part?
What makes you think this is going to happen?
When Bronny is playing important minutes ahead of DeAngelo Russell or Austin Reaves or Spencer Dinwiddie, I'll take your complaints seriously. Until then, you're just inventing exceptionally unlikely hypotheticals to justify being upset over something trivial.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 10, 2024, 11:45:01 AM
What makes you think this is going to happen?
When Bronny is playing important minutes ahead of DeAngelo Russell or Austin Reaves or Spencer Dinwiddie, I'll take your complaints seriously. Until then, you're just inventing exceptionally unlikely hypotheticals to justify being upset over something trivial.
Well Lebron wants to play with his son. Playing together in the last 3 minutes in a 30 point blowout isn't what he has in mind. If you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you.
The pick of Bronny should not divert more meaningful discourse concerning the welfare of this country, hey?
Quote from: rocket surgeon on July 10, 2024, 11:12:55 AM
i heard george clooney is asking him to drop out cuz he just doesn't have it
What?
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 10, 2024, 12:05:34 PM
Well Lebron wants to play with his son. Playing together in the last 3 minutes in a 30 point blowout isn't what he has in mind. If you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you.
Got it. You're a LeBron mind-reader.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 10, 2024, 12:12:12 PM
The pick of Bronny should not divert more meaningful discourse concerning the welfare of this country, hey?
The welfare of this country will be just fine once boomers go extinct.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 10, 2024, 12:49:30 PM
Got it. You're a LeBron mind-reader.
You don't have to be one to see this.
We'll see. It might be that spending quality time in the gym practicing and traveling together is enough or giving his son the best opportunity.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 10, 2024, 12:51:09 PM
The welfare of this country will be just fine once boomers go extinct.
Amen
I'm surprised Bronny's agent (and father) didn't advise him to take a 1 year deal so the Lakers can offer him a max contract next offseason. LBJ would've loved that for his son.
Kawhi steps away from the men's Olympic team.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 10, 2024, 12:49:30 PM
Got it. You're a LeBron mind-reader.
Lawdog makes a good point and is sharing basic common sense. It would behoove you to extricate yourself from la-la-land and stop attacking him.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 10, 2024, 06:50:59 PM
Lawdog makes a good point and is sharing basic common sense. It would behoove you to extricate yourself from la-la-land and stop attacking him.
lol
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 10, 2024, 06:50:59 PM
Lawdog makes a good point and is sharing basic common sense. It would behoove you to extricate yourself from la-la-land and stop attacking him.
Man if this isn't just ironic nonsense.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 10, 2024, 06:50:59 PM
Lawdog makes a good point and is sharing basic common sense. It would behoove you to extricate yourself from la-la-land and stop attacking him.
Thanks, but no need to step in Muggs. It's just posters (me included) offering their points of view. I don't think being called a mind-reader is that big of an insult.
Quote from: tower912 on July 10, 2024, 05:42:27 PM
Kawhi steps away from the men's Olympic team.
I'll take
The Easiest Sports Predictions for $800, Ken.
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 10, 2024, 07:05:12 PM
Thanks, but no need to step in Muggs. It's just posters (me included) offering their points of view. I don't think being called a mind-reader is that big of an insult.
Bronny went off tonight against the Heat SL team. He was a +8. ESPN showed his highlights.
USA/Canada on FS1.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 10, 2024, 06:50:59 PM
Lawdog makes a good point and is sharing basic common sense. It would behoove you to extricate yourself from la-la-land and stop attacking him.
Can I get a five-point plan for escaping la-la-land?
USA only up 4 on Canada and missing alley oops
Unmitigated disaster per Muggs
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on July 10, 2024, 10:15:55 PM
USA only up 4 on Canada and missing alley oops
Unmitigated disaster per Muggs
Sloppy half of basketball.
Quote from: tower912 on July 10, 2024, 05:42:27 PM
Kawhi steps away from the men's Olympic team.
He's gonna have a pretty fascinating and complicated legacy when he's done.
Since he won the title in Toronto, he's only made 1 All-NBA first team and only played more than 55 games once. Never made it past the conference semis and signed a couple massive contracts.
Clear best player of his generation after Lebron, Steph, and KD for me but just a strange back half of his career.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 10, 2024, 10:11:55 PM
Can I get a five-point plan for escaping la-la-land?
Just use your brain Pakuni in lieu of being hoodwinked by media and outside forces.
Quote from: JWags85 on July 10, 2024, 10:40:05 PM
He's gonna have a pretty fascinating and complicated legacy when he's done.
Since he won the title in Toronto, he's only made 1 All-NBA first team and only played more than 55 games once. Never made it past the conference semis and signed a couple massive contracts.
Clear best player of his generation after Lebron, Steph, and KD for me but just a strange back half of his career.
He can't stay healthy.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 10, 2024, 10:41:19 PM
Just use your brain Pakuni in lieu of being hoodwinked by media and outside forces.
Bless your heart.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 10, 2024, 10:37:47 PM
Sloppy half of basketball.
They need to FOCUS in games going forward.
Im thinking team bonding clubbing some seals. Like one of those anger smash rooms, but strictly seals.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on July 10, 2024, 10:57:16 PM
They need to FOCUS in games going forward.
Im thinking team bonding clubbing some seals. Like one of those anger smash rooms, but strictly seals.
Leave our tremendous marine mammals alone.. We have the talent to win every game by 30+ points.
Quote from: JWags85 on July 10, 2024, 10:40:05 PM
He's gonna have a pretty fascinating and complicated legacy when he's done.
Since he won the title in Toronto, he's only made 1 All-NBA first team and only played more than 55 games once. Never made it past the conference semis and signed a couple massive contracts.
Clear best player of his generation after Lebron, Steph, and KD for me but just a strange back half of his career.
His knee exploded a long time ago I guess
He never truly recovered from his laugh getting exposed.
That's a heck of a solid Brunson did for the Knicks.
He's still getting $$$$ that will give him and his descendants generational wealth, and he'll be in line for a truly massive next contract ... but he comes out of this with everyone praising him for being a wonderful, team-first human being who made a gargantuan personal sacrifice. Plus, he gives the Knicks a better chance to build a championship-caliber team.
It so easy for pretty much everyone to root for an athlete like that.
Bronny with some rough stats yesterday. But I assume he's being touted as a lock down defender. I think he has a long way to go from the little I've seen.
Bronny is nowhere near good enough to meaningfully contribute this season. And he probably never will be.
Bronny is there because of his dad. An all time legend in the GOAT conversation (not saying he is. I don't think that question is ever answerable. Any conversation that omits him is incomplete) has decided he wants to make history and play with his son. It does no harm to anyone else and will make history. R-E-L-A-X
Right. No one here expects anything of him.
Quote from: tower912 on July 13, 2024, 10:12:53 AM
Bronny is there because of his dad. An all time legend in the GOAT conversation (not saying he is. I don't think that question is ever answerable. Any conversation that omits him is incomplete) has decided he wants to make history and play with his son. It does no harm to anyone else and will make history. R-E-L-A-X
I don't care about Bronny or Lebron. I'm fine with it and don't care. Feel bad for Lakers fans but I don't care. You can't make me care because I don't care really
I don't care, either. I cannot understands why this has so many pantaloons in a pucker.
Quote from: tower912 on July 13, 2024, 10:22:23 AM
I don't care, either. I cannot understands why this has so many pantaloons in a pucker.
I'm afraid I feel partially responsible for this divergence in the thread. I honestly thought it was just funny that the Lakers tried to talk about how he "earned" it, when the entire world knows exactly why he is on the team (which is fine).
Not the first time, nor will it be the last time that a player is on an NBA roster because of family connections, nor is it any different than any other high paying field.
I wont make any guarantees years down the line
But currently Bronny flat out stinks. He belongs nowhere near an NBA court and honestly probably shouldn't even get G league minutes
He's brutal
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on July 14, 2024, 07:46:55 PM
I wont make any guarantees years down the line
But currently Bronny flat out stinks. He belongs nowhere near an NBA court and honestly probably shouldn't even get G league minutes
He's brutal
Yet some people are trying to say he's already showing that he's an elite defender, which is just batty, especially against Summer League talent.
Also, legit kudos to him surviving and working back from a cardiac event, I can't imagine going through that as an 18 year old...but how long are people gonna flag that as an excuse for his play? That might affect his conditioning, but that's not an excuse for being a terrible shooter and deficient offensive player. I swear it's gonna pop up if he doesn't get a second contract in 4 years
He won't get another contract. I have doubts he even finishes this one. Lebron will be retired and won't have whatever this leverage is that the Lakers are giving him.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 14, 2024, 08:08:30 PM
He won't get another contract. I have doubts he even finishes this one. Lebron will be retired and won't have whatever this leverage is that the Lakers are giving him.
You're saying the Lakers are going to treat him like Wally Ellenson?
Two different takes on Bronny
Doug Gottlieb
https://nypost.com/2024/07/14/sports/doug-gottlieb-bronny-james-would-battle-to-start-at-green-bay/
JJ Redick
https://nypost.com/2024/07/15/sports/bronny-james-compared-to-thunder-star-by-lakers-jj-redick/
Bronny is not exactly tickling the twine thus far in SL. 6-26, 0-12 from distance.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 16, 2024, 07:28:30 AM
Bronny is not exactly tickling the twine thus far in SL. 6-26, 0-12 from distance.
Right. He's not a very good player. That has been well established.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 16, 2024, 07:56:28 AM
Right. He's not a very good player. That has been well established.
The Lakers think he is. He's earned this and is the next Dort
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 16, 2024, 08:06:43 AM
The Lakers think he is. He's earned this and is the next Dort
Have I missed he's that he's a combination of Bruce Bowen, Dort, and Jrue Holiday defensively lawdog?
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 16, 2024, 08:09:41 AM
Have I missed he's that he's a combination of Bruce Bowen, Dort, and Jrue Holiday defensively lawdog?
He seems to have the athletic ability and work ethic to be an asset in the future.
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 16, 2024, 08:16:26 AM
He seems to have the athletic ability and work ethic to be an asset in the future.
Perhaps. I honestly feel bad for the kid. I'm not sure the novelty of playing with his old man will help his growth. Or if he actually cares about that, like Lebron obviously does.
Bronny's biggest advantage will be the long leash he gets to find a footing. It's such a fine line, he will get every chance to stick.
I think if Vander or Jamil had that much opportunity, their careers will look different. However, life's not fair and I will say Bronny seems to be handling it as well as he can. It can't be an easy position for him, even though he has a benefit many don't.
I think the reason people are upset about this is because nepotism is everywhere in our culture, EXCEPT on the rosters of our major league sports teams, which are the closest thing we have left to a meritocracy. So now nepotism is everywhere.
The last guy on an NBA bench doesn't move the needle pretty much ever, so it is a bigger deal symbolically than it is practically. At least that's my opinion.
Minnesota boi 2 Bucks!!!
Quote from: CTWarrior on July 16, 2024, 01:16:16 PM
I think the reason people are upset about this is because nepotism is everywhere in our culture, EXCEPT on the rosters of our major league sports teams, which are the closest thing we have left to a meritocracy. So now nepotism is everywhere.
The last guy on an NBA bench doesn't move the needle pretty much ever, so it is a bigger deal symbolically than it is practically. At least that's my opinion.
There is plenty of nepotism on the coaching staffs however.
Quote from: Jay Bee on July 16, 2024, 02:38:31 PM
Minnesota boi 2 Bucks!!!
Horst has done a nice job on the minimum contracts this year.
Quote from: Herman Cain on July 15, 2024, 11:51:14 AM
Two different takes on Bronny
Doug Gottlieb
https://nypost.com/2024/07/14/sports/doug-gottlieb-bronny-james-would-battle-to-start-at-green-bay/
JJ Redick
https://nypost.com/2024/07/15/sports/bronny-james-compared-to-thunder-star-by-lakers-jj-redick/
I just assume if it's the NYpost that its the same braindead take. Double if it is Gottlieb.
Quote from: cheebs09 on July 16, 2024, 03:24:04 PM
Horst has done a nice job on the minimum contracts this year.
Given Portis and Connaughton have negative contract value, this is as good an offseason you could hope for. Each min signing is an upgrade over the player they're replacing (Sorry, Jae). Got to hope for some internal development from their young wings
They really have done a nice job this offseason. Doubt it'll be enough, and the hole was likely too large to overcome, but each signing has been a good fit.
And now I am getting irrationally excited about AJ Johnson's summer league performance!
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40591051/bronny-james-becomes-popular-pick-rookie-year (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40591051/bronny-james-becomes-popular-pick-rookie-year)
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/xT5LMJJqa4upsOLl9m/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952vu8j1do6ypp1u7ikwdks2yrl912iuj4gmc5mvn0w&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
Sam Froling getting some minutes in the Pacer game. Our Ellenson move didn't work on that one.
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 18, 2024, 02:06:40 PM
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40591051/bronny-james-becomes-popular-pick-rookie-year (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40591051/bronny-james-becomes-popular-pick-rookie-year)
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/xT5LMJJqa4upsOLl9m/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952vu8j1do6ypp1u7ikwdks2yrl912iuj4gmc5mvn0w&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g)
Probably the same geniuses who made him the most bet on player to go number 1 in the draft. ::)
Uhhhhh....South Sudan 58, Team USA 44 at the half.
Totally inexcusable. Point Shaving? Kerr should immediately pack his bags if there isn't a 30 pt swing in the 2H.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 20, 2024, 03:04:52 PM
Uhhhhh....South Sudan 58, Team USA 44 at the half.
Totally inexcusable. Point Shaving? Kerr should immediately pack his bags if there isn't a 30 pt swing in the 2H.
In November 2009, Syracuse lost a preseason game to D2 Le Moyne. They ended up going 28-3, winning the Big East regular season, were ranked #1 in the country late in the regular season, earned a 1 seed, and made the Sweet 16 before bowing out to one of Brad Stevens national runner up Butler teams.
Maybe wait until the games count to declare something inexcusable
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 20, 2024, 03:28:15 PM
In November 2009, Syracuse lost a preseason game to D2 Le Moyne. They ended up going 28-3, winning the Big East regular season, were ranked #1 in the country late in the regular season, earned a 1 seed, and made the Sweet 16 before bowing out to one of Brad Stevens national runner up Butler teams.
Maybe wait until the games count to declare something inexcusable
I don't know if Kerr is just diicking around with rotations, but this team is playing 0.0 defense right now. They better figure it out before the real games start.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 20, 2024, 03:28:15 PM
Maybe wait until the games count to declare something inexcusable
Or maybe just wait until the end of the game.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 20, 2024, 03:50:07 PM
Or maybe just wait until the end of the game.
You were saying? This cannot happen. I don't care if it's an exhibition game.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say Muggsy is not a fan of Kerr.
Quote from: cheebs09 on July 20, 2024, 04:27:05 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say Muggsy is not a fan of Kerr.
Muggsy is madly in love with the mirrors in his home.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 20, 2024, 04:06:21 PM
You were saying? This cannot happen. I don't care if it's an exhibition game.
I was saying we won a meaningless exhibition game?
I mean it can happen. And despite it, the USA will be heavy favorites in Paris. I woulda thought you've watched enough sports to know that good teams sometimes play down to bad teams, especially in exhibition games.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on July 20, 2024, 04:35:26 PM
I was saying we won a meaningless exhibition game?
I mean it can happen. And despite it, the USA will be heavy favorites in Paris. I woulda thought you've watched enough sports to know that good teams sometimes play down to bad teams, especially in exhibition games.
Today's result is equivalent of MU being down 14 at half to MSOE or Cardinal Stritch and winning by a point. Same talent discrepancy. Also exhibition games. How would that have sit with everyone going into a season?
Quote from: cheebs09 on July 20, 2024, 04:27:05 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say Muggsy is not a fan of Kerr.
He doesn't because Kerr is woke
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on July 20, 2024, 04:51:54 PM
Today's result is equivalent of MU being down 14 at half to MSOE or Cardinal Stritch and winning by a point. Same talent discrepancy. Also exhibition games. How would that have sit with everyone going into a season?
If they beat Cardinal Stritch by 69, a few scoopers would still be concerned
The Bulls won't be good next year, but with White, Giddey and Matas they're going to be a lot of fun.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on July 20, 2024, 04:51:54 PM
Today's result is equivalent of MU being down 14 at half to MSOE or Cardinal Stritch and winning by a point. Same talent discrepancy. Also exhibition games. How would that have sit with everyone going into a season?
Everyone? As in eveyone on Scoop? Rationality is in short supply here so I'm sure scoop would be in full meltdown. Personally Id shrug and say glad it didn't effect our NET. As a rule, i don't think it's wise to put much stock in single game results. That goes quadruple for single exhibition results
I'd be chill.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on July 20, 2024, 04:51:54 PM
Today's result is equivalent of MU being down 14 at half to MSOE or Cardinal Stritch and winning by a point. Same talent discrepancy. Also exhibition games. How would that have sit with everyone going into a season?
No it wasn't. Their top 4 scorers all played NBA minutes in the last 2-3 years. Maluach, the huge young center, is a Duke commit and projected as a top 5 pick next year.
They are coached by a highly regarded NBA assistant who, combined with lead assistant Luol Deng, has 25+ years of NBA playing experience.
No South Sudan isn't in the same league as the US and it would have been a massive upset, but you're being ridiculous. Its more like UCONN losing to a Summit League team with a few P5 transfers...in an exhibition.
Quote from: JWags85 on July 20, 2024, 09:04:50 PM
No it wasn't. Their top 4 scorers all played NBA minutes in the last 2-3 years. Maluach, the huge young center, is a Duke commit and projected as a top 5 pick next year.
They are coached by a highly regarded NBA assistant who, combined with lead assistant Luol Deng, has 25+ years of NBA playing experience.
No South Sudan isn't in the same league as the US and it would have been a massive upset, but you're being ridiculous. Its more like UCONN losing to a Summit League team with a few P5 transfers...in an exhibition.
The announcer said the US team was a 43 point favorite. That's more than any 1 vs 16 seed than I can remember.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 20, 2024, 09:49:03 PM
The announcer said the US team was a 43 point favorite. That's more than any 1 vs 16 seed than I can remember.
Well, today was like stealing for JWags with that impressive roster including a 17 year old and other players whose claim to fame was actually getting their name in a real NBA box score against our team of Hall of Famers and a few merely being all star caliber.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 20, 2024, 05:34:34 PM
He doesn't because Kerr is woke
That has nothing to do with it. This was an embarrassing and inexcusable performance. Led by the coaching staff.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 21, 2024, 07:58:49 AM
That has nothing to do with it. This was an embarrassing and excusable performance. Led by the coaching staff.
Mhm
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 21, 2024, 08:08:42 AM
Mhm
Inexcusable performance. You and others here suffer from MMSS.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 21, 2024, 08:13:00 AM
Inexcusable performance. You and others here suffer from MMSS.
You wanted Pop replaced in 2021 when they lost their first game.
They went on to win the gold.
Maybe be a little patient for once.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 21, 2024, 08:17:43 AM
You wanted Pop replaced in 2021 when they lost their first game.
They went on to win the gold.
Maybe be a little patient for once.
I don't like their defense right now. They need to get their act together. :)
Muggs, it must be exhausting being you.
Quote from: MU82 on July 21, 2024, 08:40:19 AM
Muggs, it must be exhausting being you.
I feel fantastic. Just ran 4 miles and am now steeping my 100% pure Peaberry Kona Coffee.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 21, 2024, 08:44:55 AM
I feel fantastic. Just ran 4 miles and am now steeping my 100% pure Peaberry Kona Coffee.
Peaberry Kona Coffee? That's INEXCUSABLE!
Quote from: MU82 on July 21, 2024, 08:40:19 AM
Muggs, it must be exhausting being you.
Not really. Flip his gender for a moment and understanding Muggsy is as easy as it was for Jack Nickolson's character in
As Good As It Gets when he was asked how he captured the character of women so well in his novels:
Receptionist: "How do you write women so well?"
Writer: "I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability."
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on July 21, 2024, 10:11:51 AM
Not really. Flip his gender for a moment and understanding Muggsy is as easy as it was for Jack Nickolson's character in As Good As It Gets when he was asked how he captured the character of women so well in his novels:
Receptionist: "How do you write women so well?"
Writer: "I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability."
You're not quick witted SS. Read some Oscar Wilde or something.
Quote from: MU82 on July 21, 2024, 09:24:36 AM
Peaberry Kona Coffee? That's INEXCUSABLE!
These are prime-time c-beans. And I'll take the barrista challenge with anyone, whether it be with my French Press or Pour Over.
Although......Gale Boetticher would have been tough competition. :)
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 21, 2024, 11:08:37 AM
These are prime-time c-beans. And I'll take the barrista challenge with anyone, whether it be with my French Press or Pour Over.
Although......Gale Boetticher would have been tough competition. :)
INEXCUSABLE!
Have been overseas for almost all of summer league. How have the Bucks hopeful contributors look?
From what I've heard, MarJon looks terrible, Livingston looks good, Andre looks like an okay glue guy, Smith doesn't impress, and AJ Johnson looks very good at times but not good at other times.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 21, 2024, 11:03:48 AM
You're not quick witted SS. Read some Oscar Wilde or something.
Not attempting to be. Just a spot-on description of you. Rationality and accountability are absent in so many of your posts.
Oh, and regarding reading? If you tried that once in a while regarding history, perhaps you would not constantly be making a complete ass of yourself with your posts about world events of which you are laughably ignorant. Oscar Wilde's writings won't help.
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on July 21, 2024, 11:30:57 AM
Not attempting to be. Just a spot-on description of you. Rationality and accountability are absent in so many of your posts.
Oh, and regarding reading? If you tried that once in a while regarding history, perhaps you would not constantly be making a complete ass of yourself with your posts about world events of which you are laughably ignorant. Oscar Wilde's writings won't help.
Lol. You've ckeatly become unhinged which is unfortunate.
Quote from: MuggsyB on July 21, 2024, 11:37:45 AM
Lol. You've ckeatly become unhinged which is unfortunate.
Like the orange man, your response is to accuse your opponents of being what you
demonstrably are. You live in LaLa land and accuse your critics of living there.
Thank you for keeping this exchange going.
Barkley & Co might not be done yet.
Warner Bros. Discovery - which owns TNT - matched Amazon's bid for broadcast rights for a big chunk of NBA games.
Probably headed to the courts, but TNT clearly had a right-to-match clause in its contract.
Quote from: MU82 on July 23, 2024, 08:13:47 AM
Barkley & Co might not be done yet.
Warner Bros. Discovery - which owns TNT - matched Amazon's bid for broadcast rights for a big chunk of NBA games.
Probably headed to the courts, but TNT clearly had a right-to-match clause in its contract.
But the NBA is going to argue that the right to match wasn't just about the money but about the method of distribution and the number of households. A number of people are predicting that the NBA will eventually just pay off WBD.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 23, 2024, 08:18:04 AM
But the NBA is going to argue that the right to match wasn't just about the money but about the method of distribution and the number of households. A number of people are predicting that the NBA will eventually just pay off WBD.
Thanks for adding that. Yes, the NBA still could end up on Amazon instead of TNT.
Here's The Athletic's quickie summary:
A big update in the NBA broadcast rights saga: The Athletic's Andrew Marchand reports that TNT, initially left out of the new rights deal, has filed to match the package given to Amazon, which represents the smallest tier of the agreement.
Two notable layers:
In the current deal, TNT has a contractual right to match any package agreed to in the new framework. Yet Andrew reports the league is expected to decline TNT's match and go ahead with Amazon as its new partner. Legally, it's unclear if the NBA can do so. A court fight will be messy, and extremely awkward if TNT wins.
TNT still has a lot going for it here, namely the giant popularity of "Inside the NBA." David Zaslav, CEO of TNT's parent company Warner Bros. Discovery, has talked about losing the NBA for months — but don't think TNT is bowing out quietly. Andrew mentioned a possible financial settlement or addendum to the rights deal before it's signed.
TNT could have avoided all of this nonsense had they just used the exclusive window like ESPN did.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on July 23, 2024, 10:19:42 AM
TNT could have avoided all of this nonsense had they just used the exclusive window like ESPN did.
Maybe the same group that advised the Pac12 is advising TNT? :D
Quote from: WhiteTrash on July 23, 2024, 10:57:21 AM
Maybe the same group that advised the Pac12 is advising TNT? :D
It isn't
Quote from: Uncle Rico on July 23, 2024, 11:57:30 AM
It isn't
It was Gutey - "let's just wait and see what happens".
Nice story on Junior Bridgeman
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40625836/how-nba-sixth-man-built-600m-empire (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40625836/how-nba-sixth-man-built-600m-empire)
Charles Barkley will either remain with TNT Sports on his 10-year, $210 million contract or he will listen to offers from ESPN, NBC and Amazon Prime Video as he reconsiders retirement, he told The Athletic on Friday.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5660857/2024/07/26/charles-barkley-tnt-contract-free-agent-espn-nbc-amazon/?
"My deal is 10 years, $210 million," Barkley said in a phone interview. "Turner has to come to me ASAP and they have to guarantee my whole thing or they can offer me a pay cut, which there is no chance of that happening and I'll be (a) free agent.
"My thing was, 'Wait, y'all f— up, I didn't f— up, why do I have to take a pay cut?"
Barkley is in the third year of his deal.
The NBA announced this week new deals worth a total of $77 billion over 11 years with incumbent ESPN and newcomers NBC and Amazon. In the process, the NBA rejected TNT Sports' matching rights. TNT Sports filed a suit against the league in hopes of taking over Amazon's deal, it announced Friday.
"I wouldn't want them to sue," Barkley said. "The NBA clearly wanted to break up with us. I don't want to be in a relationship where I have to sue somebody to be in it. That makes zero sense.
"If you have to sue somebody to stay in a relationship, do you think that is a healthy relationship?"
Quote from: lawdog77 on July 25, 2024, 05:28:22 AM
Nice story on Junior Bridgeman
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40625836/how-nba-sixth-man-built-600m-empire (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40625836/how-nba-sixth-man-built-600m-empire)
One of my all-time fave Bucks. Never quite as good as we all thought he would be, but still very good. His game would have been perfect for today's 3-and-D NBA.
The White Sox might have to be contracted
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on July 29, 2024, 09:42:15 PM
The White Sox might have to be contracted
Tangentially related to basketball I guess
Sox have been traded for cash considerations
It's cute that Anthony Edwards believes that, aside from Michael Jordan, no NBA player had any skill until Kobe Bryant came along.
"I didn't watch it back in the day, so I can't speak on it. They say it was tougher back then than it is now, but I don't think anybody had skill back then. [Michael Jordan] was the only one that really had skill, you know what I mean? So, that's why when they saw Kobe [Bryant], they were like, 'Oh, my God.' But now everybody has skill."
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5723752/2024/08/26/anthony-edwards-magic-johnson-lakers-timberwolves-nba-kobe-bryant-lakers-the-bounce/?campaign=5888993&source=dailyemail&userId=3738391
It's even cuter that he started his ridiculous take by admitting he was ignorant on the subject.
Quote from: MU82 on August 27, 2024, 09:04:17 AM
It's cute that Anthony Edwards believes that, aside from Michael Jordan, no NBA player had any skill until Kobe Bryant came along.
"I didn't watch it back in the day, so I can't speak on it. They say it was tougher back then than it is now, but I don't think anybody had skill back then. [Michael Jordan] was the only one that really had skill, you know what I mean? So, that's why when they saw Kobe [Bryant], they were like, 'Oh, my God.' But now everybody has skill."
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5723752/2024/08/26/anthony-edwards-magic-johnson-lakers-timberwolves-nba-kobe-bryant-lakers-the-bounce/?campaign=5888993&source=dailyemail&userId=3738391
It's even cuter that he started his ridiculous take by admitting he was ignorant on the subject.
I think it is fair to say guys like Dr. J, Magic, Bird, Ewing, Barkly etc. had no "skill" and would be in the G-League today. ::)
He's embellishing for sure but he has a point. The league is 100x more skilled than it was 20 years ago. And it's SO much deeper. Most guys that are fifth or sixth off the bench would be surefire starters in the 90s.
But yeah, the way he chose to make his point was definitely flawed.
Quote from: BM1090 on August 27, 2024, 12:07:42 PM
He's embellishing for sure but he has a point. The league is 100x more skilled than it was 20 years ago. And it's SO much deeper. Most guys that are fifth or sixth off the bench would be surefire starters in the 90s.
But yeah, the way he chose to make his point was definitely flawed.
Speaking of "embellishing". "100x"? Really? 2x would represent a massive 100% improvement.
nm
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 27, 2024, 12:41:32 PM
Speaking of "embellishing". "100x"? Really? 2x would represent a massive 100% improvement.
I'm aware what I did.
Quote from: BM1090 on August 27, 2024, 12:07:42 PM
He's embellishing for sure but he has a point. The league is 100x more skilled than it was 20 years ago. And it's SO much deeper. Most guys that are fifth or sixth off the bench would be surefire starters in the 90s.
But yeah, the way he chose to make his point was definitely flawed.
Is it really, though?
No doubt the players are bigger/faster/stronger, but more skilled? Maybe, but to me the game is played far simpler today (dunks and threes) than it was in the 80s and 90s. I don't think it's a coincidence that many of the most skilled players in the league today come from overseas there those things are stressed to young players vs how the game is played here, which again relies more on pure athleticism.
Just a thought.
Quote from: BM1090 on August 27, 2024, 12:07:42 PM
He's embellishing for sure but he has a point. The league is 100x more skilled than it was 20 years ago. And it's SO much deeper. Most guys that are fifth or sixth off the bench would be surefire starters in the 90s.
But yeah, the way he chose to make his point was definitely flawed.
This is 1,000x sillier than most Scoop takes.
Quote from: BM1090 on August 27, 2024, 12:07:42 PM
He's embellishing for sure but he has a point. The league is 100x more skilled than it was 20 years ago. And it's SO much deeper. Most guys that are fifth or sixth off the bench would be surefire starters in the 90s.
But yeah, the way he chose to make his point was definitely flawed.
Please show your work
Quote from: Pakuni on August 27, 2024, 01:38:12 PM
Is it really, though?
No doubt the players are bigger/faster/stronger, but more skilled? Maybe, but to me the game is played far simpler today (dunks and threes) than it was in the 80s and 90s. I don't think it's a coincidence that many of the most skilled players in the league today come from overseas there those things are stressed to young players vs how the game is played here, which again relies more on pure athleticism.
Just a thought.
I think the current NBA has far superior shot making than decades ago. The number of filthy scorers (that are deficient in many areas and thus not stars) is pretty remarkable when you consider the increases in size, speed, and training/nutrition/etc... that has grown in the game over the last 30+ years. Its not an insult to the skills of the players at the time but the biggest thing when watching older games is the general speed of movement, IMO.
But I don't think other skills like passing, dribbling, rebounding, court vision, etc... are vastly superior than they used to be.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 27, 2024, 01:38:12 PM
Is it really, though?
No doubt the players are bigger/faster/stronger, but more skilled? Maybe, but to me the game is played far simpler today (dunks and threes) than it was in the 80s and 90s. I don't think it's a coincidence that many of the most skilled players in the league today come from overseas there those things are stressed to young players vs how the game is played here, which again relies more on pure athleticism.
Just a thought.
Skilled as in the shooters are just significantly better than in the 90s. 3 pt attempts per game more than doubled but overall fg% remains pretty flat to the 90s.
You can argue the defensive rule changes open up spacing for that better, but the fact that 3 pt percentage has actually gotten better at more than twice the attempts is pretty remarkable.
Quote from: JWags85 on August 27, 2024, 03:11:54 PM
I think the current NBA has far superior shot making than decades ago. The number of filthy scorers (that are deficient in many areas and thus not stars) is pretty remarkable when you consider the increases in size, speed, and training/nutrition/etc... that has grown in the game over the last 30+ years. Its not an insult to the skills of the players at the time but the biggest thing when watching older games is the general speed of movement, IMO.
But I don't think other skills like passing, dribbling, rebounding, court vision, etc... are vastly superior than they used to be.
How do you reconcile this with the popular opinion that Jordan would have averages 5-10 ppg more today? I do believe this is true with the way the game is officiated today and the way Jordan was "abused" by defenders. But I also recognize players are better physically today in all sports. Also, maybe Jordan is not an appropriate gauge of overall talent.
I don't have strong feelings either way just throwing out some ideas/questions.
We're just defining "skilled" differently. That's fine, but it makes a discussion largely pointless unless we want to get into the semantics of "skilled".
But because someone asked. I took the 1990-91 Bucks, chose at random due to similar record and placing and compared it to this roster. The 90-91 Bucks went 48-34 and placed 4th in the East. Last year's Bucks were 49-33 and placed 3rd.
Do you think that bench guys like Pat Connaughton, Bobby Portis, Andre Jackson wouldn't start over 90-91 starters Fred Roberts, Frank Brickowski and Danny Schayes? Those three would be quickly played off the floor. I understand it's a different game, but it's largely a different game because players are more skilled (and athletic)
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/1991.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIL/2024.html
And the 2024 team is stronger at the top too with Giannis, Dame and Khris vs. Humphries and Robinson. So yes, I think most starters on solid 90s teams would barely be in the 2024 rotations.
There are obviously exceptions, though.
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on August 27, 2024, 03:53:08 PM
Skilled as in the shooters are just significantly better than in the 90s. 3 pt attempts per game more than doubled but overall fg% remains pretty flat to the 90s.
You can argue the defensive rule changes open up spacing for that better, but the fact that 3 pt percentage has actually gotten better at more than twice the attempts is pretty remarkable.
Yep. The best shooters are better. The average shooters are better. The worst shooters are better. And I'd argue it's the same for ball handling and passing.
90s players are probably craftier in some cases since they had to be to deal with the defensive rules.
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on August 27, 2024, 03:53:08 PM
Skilled as in the shooters are just significantly better than in the 90s. 3 pt attempts per game more than doubled but overall fg% remains pretty flat to the 90s.
You can argue the defensive rule changes open up spacing for that better, but the fact that 3 pt percentage has actually gotten better at more than twice the attempts is pretty remarkable.
Sure, but as JWags notes above, shooting is one skill.
Has dribbling gotten 100 times better? Passing? Individual shot creating? On ball defense? Post defense? Rebounding?
(I'd argue ... and the stats and people around the league agree ... that defense has become worse, in part because of rules changes).
Quote from: Pakuni on August 27, 2024, 01:38:12 PM
Is it really, though?
No doubt the players are bigger/faster/stronger, but more skilled? Maybe, but to me the game is played far simpler today (dunks and threes) than it was in the 80s and 90s. I don't think it's a coincidence that many of the most skilled players in the league today come from overseas there those things are stressed to young players vs how the game is played here, which again relies more on pure athleticism.
Just a thought.
Based on what? The top 10 shooters by percentage in the NBA this year were American. Luka is the first foreign player on the list at #15.
Only 2 of the top 25 in makes were foriegn. Luka at #2 and Bogdanovic at #6.
Less quantifiable, but I'd argue the same would prove true for ball handling.
Edit: only two of the top twenty in APG were European. One more (SGA) was Canadian. The other 17 are American.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 27, 2024, 04:00:41 PM
Sure, but as JWags notes above, shooting is one skill.
Has dribbling gotten 100 times better? Passing? Individual shot creating? On ball defense? Post defense? Rebounding?
(I'd argue ... and the stats and people around the league agree ... that defense has become worse, in part because of rules changes).
Just from the eye test, dribbling is much better now (especially for the "taller" guys). Don't know how one would measure by how much, though.
Quote from: BM1090 on August 27, 2024, 04:03:34 PM
Based on what? The top 10 shooters by percentage in the NBA this year were American. Luka is the first foreign player on the list at #15.
Only 2 of the top 25 in makes were foriegn. Luka at #2 and Bogdanovic at #6.
Less quantifiable, but I'd argue the same would prove true for ball handling.
Again, shooting is just one skill. And the NBA's neutering of perimeter defense can't be ignored.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 27, 2024, 04:05:03 PM
Again, shooting is just one skill. And the NBA's neutering of perimeter defense can't be ignored.
I do agree on the point you make about defense.
But I included stats for APG too. Same story for blocks. And when i think of the best ball handlers in the league, I think of mostly Americans.
Rebounding is largely dominated by foreign-born players, which for some reason I struggle to wrap my head around.
Quote from: lawdog77 on August 27, 2024, 04:03:50 PM
Just from the eye test, dribbling is much better now (especially for the "taller" guys). Don't know how one would measure by how much, though.
Well I guess if ridiculous degrees of palming and traveling are considered more skilled dribbling, than sure?
Watch videos of Shaq playing 1 on 1. He was a skilled ball handler, it just wasn't his role in the offense.
Rules are different. Shoes/training is different. Comparing eras is kind of pointless.
I just came to see if the argument had been made that MJ wasn't all that and was more of a floor general that was propped up by having great players around him. Disappointed in Scoop to see nobody has shown this yet.
Quote from: forgetful on August 27, 2024, 04:31:50 PM
Well I guess if ridiculous degrees of palming and traveling are considered more skilled dribbling, than sure?
Watch videos of Shaq playing 1 on 1. He was a skilled ball handler, it just wasn't his role in the offense.
Hakeem was ridiculously skilled as well. Not a shooter (though I suspect he could have developed into one in a different era) but I'd rank his passing and ballhandling skills with any current big not named Jokic. And both his post scoring and defensive skills were off the charts.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 27, 2024, 04:40:29 PM
Hakeem was ridiculously skilled as well. Not a shooter (though I suspect he could have developed into one in a different era) but I'd rank his passing and ballhandling skills with any current big not named Jokic. And both his post scoring and defensive skills were off the charts.
Shaq and Hakeem were the exception not the rule
Quote from: lawdog77 on August 27, 2024, 04:43:25 PM
Shaq and Hakeem were the exception not the rule
How about Bill Russell? I'm sure you can still find a clip of him grabbing a rebound, dribbling past everyone, and jumping over a guy from near the FT line.
Skilled big men have been around since basketball was invented.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 27, 2024, 04:34:28 PM
I just came to see if the argument had been made that MJ wasn't all that and was more of a floor general that was propped up by having great players around him. Disappointed in Scoop to see nobody has shown this yet.
Michael Starr
Quote from: Pakuni on August 27, 2024, 04:00:41 PM
Sure, but as JWags notes above, shooting is one skill.
Has dribbling gotten 100 times better? Passing? Individual shot creating? On ball defense? Post defense? Rebounding?
(I'd argue ... and the stats and people around the league agree ... that defense has become worse, in part because of rules changes).
I personally wasn't saying 100 times better in any regard. I'd say overall dribbling has improved on the level of that more of the league can do it routinely no matter the position. (Yes prior era players could do it, but the breadth of the league who can and does is larger now)
I am not sure how to quantify it (or do but lack the motivation) but I would be really curious to see how higher octane offenses driven by ridiculously high usage long guards such as Luka or Harden correlates with lower rebounding numbers for interior players. When Westbrook was in his prime he would corral a large amount of rebounds because the goal was to push the tempo and not waste time moving the ball to him, instead your size boxes out the defense and let your explosive guard push up court.
Quote from: lawdog77 on August 27, 2024, 04:43:25 PM
Shaq and Hakeem were the exception not the rule
Maybe, maybe not. I could give you plenty of names - David Robinson, Bill Walton, Kevin McHale, Karl Malone. I mean, how bout freakin Kareem and effen Wilt ... come on.
But remember ... dopey Edwards said Jordan was the ONLY skilled player. So not even Shaq and Hakeem in his eyes.
It's just a ridiculous take from a guy who admitted his ignorance at the very start of his ridiculous take.
Quote from: MU82 on August 27, 2024, 04:56:58 PM
Maybe, maybe not. I could give you plenty of names - David Robinson, Bill Walton, Kevin McHale, Karl Malone. I mean, how bout freakin Kareem and effen Wilt ... come on.
But remember ... dopey Edwards said Jordan was the ONLY skilled player. So not even Shaq and Hakeem in his eyes.
It's just a ridiculous take from a guy who admitted his ignorance at the very start of his ridiculous take.
He seems to have accomplished his goal by riling you up at least. NBA twitter thrives on these takes.
Quote from: lawdog77 on August 27, 2024, 04:43:25 PM
Shaq and Hakeem were the exception not the rule
Who are the current bigs with equal skill? I assume there must be a dozen.
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on August 27, 2024, 04:57:50 PM
He seems to have accomplished his goal by riling you up at least. NBA twitter thrives on these takes.
Exactly.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 27, 2024, 04:58:26 PM
Who are the current bigs with equal skill? I assume there must be a dozen.
Iwas talking about dribbling and said taller players-meaning 6 8 or more. There were very few 6 8 guys back in the 80s that could dribble like todays taller players. KD, Paul George, Jayson Tatum, Lebron. There are well more than a dozen guys 6 8 and over that have great ball handling skills
In terms of centers, off the top of my head, Jokic, Holmgren and Wemby are much better dribblers. Players like Wendell Carter, Bobby Portis, Jakob Poeltl, Myles Turner, Bam Adebayo,Sabonis, Embiid. That's 10 center that are probable better dribblers.
Brad Sellers, one of the first 7' SFs, will forever be known as soft. Just another example of how times change.
Quote from: MU82 on August 27, 2024, 04:56:58 PM
Maybe, maybe not. I could give you plenty of names - David Robinson, Bill Walton, Kevin McHale, Karl Malone. I mean, how bout freakin Kareem and effen Wilt ... come on.
But remember ... dopey Edwards said Jordan was the ONLY skilled player. So not even Shaq and Hakeem in his eyes.
It's just a ridiculous take from a guy who admitted his ignorance at the very start of his ridiculous take.
I was simply talking about dribbling/ball handling
Quote from: Plaque Lives Matter! on August 27, 2024, 04:57:50 PM
He seems to have accomplished his goal by riling you up at least. NBA twitter thrives on these takes.
Guilty.
If only Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars had any skills.
Quote from: MU82 on August 27, 2024, 04:56:58 PM
Maybe, maybe not. I could give you plenty of names - David Robinson, Bill Walton, Kevin McHale, Karl Malone. I mean, how bout freakin Kareem and effen Wilt ... come on.
But remember ... dopey Edwards said Jordan was the ONLY skilled player. So not even Shaq and Hakeem in his eyes.
It's just a ridiculous take from a guy who admitted his ignorance at the very start of his ridiculous take.
Yeah, and clearly there weren't 6'8" ball handlers back in the day of Bird, Magic, Pippen, and Dominique.
Or, the original proponent of the point forward. Don Nelson with Paul Pressey.
I think you can make a logical argument the talent is deeper in todays NBA compared to the 80s & 90s due to population growth, increased worldwide talent pool, better training and committed focus to a single sport year-a-round. That argument can be made for every major sport.
Comments like "Jordan was the only skilled player" and "players are 100x more skilled" are silly and wrong. There has been incremental improvement, but, IMO, even an assertion that players are 2x better is a massive stretch and false.
These sports change over time and new strategies & rule changes dictate types of players teams value. The NBA used to value large big men who could bang and guards who could take a physical beating. The arguments made here would lead you to conclude MLB starting pitchers were "100x" more skilled in the 60s and that there are is only a small fraction of "skilled" running backs or linebackers in the NFL today compared to 30 years ago.
There is a lot more quickness and length on the court now as well. Edwards statement is obviously ridiculous, but the game overall is played at a higher level now than it has at any time in its history. Whether or not that means the players are more skilled, IDK...but it's not really all that relevant.
Whoa. The final "Woj Bomb."
https://x.com/wojespn/status/1836414909829034140
And he's going to St. Bonaventure to be the GM of their basketball team.
https://x.com/GoBonnies/status/1836415566963249275
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 18, 2024, 09:47:22 AM
Whoa. The final "Woj Bomb."
https://x.com/wojespn/status/1836414909829034140
And he's going to St. Bonaventure to be the GM of their basketball team.
https://x.com/GoBonnies/status/1836415566963249275
Does that mean using his connection to agents and NBA guys for NIL?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 18, 2024, 09:47:22 AM
Whoa. The final "Woj Bomb."
https://x.com/wojespn/status/1836414909829034140
And he's going to St. Bonaventure to be the GM of their basketball team.
https://x.com/GoBonnies/status/1836415566963249275
Good on him. He was a hell of a reporter, and I wish him well on his new challenge.
Quote from: MU82 on September 18, 2024, 11:38:11 AM
Good on him. He was a hell of a reporter, and I wish him well on his new challenge.
Not many true reporters at ESPN, but he was a good one for sure.
Walkin' away from $20 mil. Datsa lotta Apple stock, hey?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 18, 2024, 09:47:22 AM
Whoa. The final "Woj Bomb."
https://x.com/wojespn/status/1836414909829034140
And he's going to St. Bonaventure to be the GM of their basketball team.
https://x.com/GoBonnies/status/1836415566963249275
Speaks a lot to the stress and expectations of that gig that dealing with NIL and college athletes is a relaxing second career.
Great note about new Bucks part owner Junior Bridgeman (from Yahoo Sports):
Despite never making more than $350,000 annually as a hooper, Bridgeman is the fourth-richest NBA player ($600 million net worth), trailing only Michael Jordan ($3.2 billion), Magic Johnson ($1.2 billion) and LeBron James ($1.2 billion).
Derrick Rose retires after 16 years. Truly one of the most disappointing careers due to injury. I think you can make a sound argument he was trending to be a top 25 player of all time. I think he would have been #2 of the past 20 years behind LeBron.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 26, 2024, 08:10:27 AM
Derrick Rose retires after 16 years. Truly one of the most disappointing careers due to injury. I think you can make a sound argument he was trending to be a top 25 player of all time. I think he would have been #2 of the past 20 years behind LeBron.
Uh.... maybe. This is a very bold claim, and I hope you enjoy defending it for the next two pages at least. :P
Quote from: Hards Alumni on September 26, 2024, 08:26:59 AM
Uh.... maybe. This is a very bold claim, and I hope you enjoy defending it for the next two pages at least. :P
I don't think it's that far-fetched. He was an incredible talent before the injuries and the Bulls were certainly capable of winning a title had he been the player he was.
3-time all-star and 1-time MVP entering his prime when the knees became Swiss cheese. Given his playing style, he probably was doomed to injuries dominating his career, so it's likely the what-if scenario is wishful thinking but I'd listen to an argument he may have been a top-25 all-time talent
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 26, 2024, 08:37:06 AM
I don't think it's that far-fetched. He was an incredible talent before the injuries and the Bulls were certainly capable of winning a title had he been the player he was.
3-time all-star and 1-time MVP entering his prime when the knees became Swiss cheese. Given his playing style, he probably was doomed to injuries dominating his career, so it's likely the what-if scenario is wishful thinking but I'd listen to an argument he may have been a top-25 all-time talent
Top 25 all time I believe. #2 of the last 20 is a no way from me.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 26, 2024, 08:37:06 AM
I don't think it's that far-fetched. He was an incredible talent before the injuries and the Bulls were certainly capable of winning a title had he been the player he was.
3-time all-star and 1-time MVP entering his prime when the knees became Swiss cheese. Given his playing style, he probably was doomed to injuries dominating his career, so it's likely the what-if scenario is wishful thinking but I'd listen to an argument he may have been a top-25 all-time talent
Before his injuries Rose was unguardable.
Unbelievable talent. Too dumb to understand what consent is unfortunately.
Another notch(s) on the Thibs injury belt
https://x.com/tyleriam/status/596868913943580672?s=46&t=G2FhP_F2kWewaBOpvRv5lg
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 26, 2024, 08:37:06 AM
I don't think it's that far-fetched. He was an incredible talent before the injuries and the Bulls were certainly capable of winning a title had he been the player he was.
3-time all-star and 1-time MVP entering his prime when the knees became Swiss cheese. Given his playing style, he probably was doomed to injuries dominating his career, so it's likely the what-if scenario is wishful thinking but I'd listen to an argument he may have been a top-25 all-time talent
Reako, were ewe da dude dat took da ACT for 'im, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on September 26, 2024, 11:35:29 AM
Reako, were ewe da dude dat took da ACT for 'im, hey?
Well, we know it wasn't Rocket Buffoon
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 26, 2024, 12:18:25 PM
Well, we know it wasn't Rocket Buffoon
Yeah, Rocket would have scored much higher than 19.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2024, 12:38:26 PM
Yeah, Rocket would have scored much higher than 19.
Good one, Lenny! That made me chuckle.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on September 26, 2024, 08:59:41 AM
Top 25 all time I believe. #2 of the last 20 is a no way from me.
This in not close to hill I'd die on, and a hypothetical assertion also, but he was very special and the youngest NBA MVP ever I believe, hence the logic behind just below LBJ. I could be talked into Wade :D
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 26, 2024, 01:42:20 PM
This in not close to hill I'd die on, and a hypothetical assertion also, but he was very special and the youngest NBA MVP ever I believe, hence the logic behind just below LBJ. I could be talked into Wade :D
I could actually make the argument that he's the least deserving MVP of the past twenty years. And I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but he wasn't going to be better than Curry, Durant, Jokic or Giannis.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 26, 2024, 02:06:38 PM
I could actually make the argument that he's the least deserving MVP of the past twenty years. And I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but he wasn't going to be better than Curry, Durant, Jokic or Giannis.
That's fair.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 26, 2024, 02:06:38 PM
I could actually make the argument that he's the least deserving MVP of the past twenty years. And I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but he wasn't going to be better than Curry, Durant, Jokic or Giannis.
Who should've won the 2011 MVP?
Quote from: MurphysTillClose on September 26, 2024, 03:23:16 PM
Who should've won the 2011 MVP?
Lebron. He lead the league in all sorts of advanced categories that year. I could even make a case for Durant or Paul over Rose.
I give Rose a lot of credit for reshaping his game post-injury. After that 17-18 season where he put up nice numbers on a terrible team, he had a 5 year stretch where he was averaging 15-18 PPG and 4+ assists despite playing less than 28 min a game. He also became a pretty solid 3P shooter when that was not at all a part of his game at his peak.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 26, 2024, 08:10:27 AM
Derrick Rose retires after 16 years. Truly one of the most disappointing careers due to injury. I think you can make a sound argument he was trending to be a top 25 player of all time. I think he would have been #2 of the past 20 years behind LeBron.
#2 is a major stretch WT. And by major I mean gargantuan/mammoth.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 26, 2024, 03:39:14 PM
Lebron. He lead the league in all sorts of advanced categories that year. I could even make a case for Durant or Paul over Rose.
Periodic reminder that MVP doesn't always equal "best" or "best stats."
You definitely could make a statistical argument for others.
The counterargument is that Rose carried a team short on talent* to the best record in the league and his statistical profile wasn't far behind the others.
* Rose was the only all-star on the roster, which featured good/not great guys like Lu Deng, Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah. LeBron (Wade and Bosh) and Durant (Westbrook and Harden) were playing alongside future Hall of Famers.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 26, 2024, 05:49:30 PM
Periodic reminder that MVP doesn't always equal "best" or "best stats."
You definitely could make a statistical argument for others.
The counterargument is that Rose carried a team short on talent* to the best record in the league and his statistical profile wasn't far behind the others.
* Rose was the only all-star on the roster, which featured good/not great guys like Lu Deng, Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah. LeBron (Wade and Bosh) and Durant (Westbrook and Harden) were playing alongside future Hall of Famers.
I'm a Wisconsin guy - hates Bulls, Bears, Cubs, etc. - but I agree completely with your post.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 26, 2024, 05:49:30 PM
Periodic reminder that MVP doesn't always equal "best" or "best stats."
You definitely could make a statistical argument for others.
The counterargument is that Rose carried a team short on talent* to the best record in the league and his statistical profile wasn't far behind the others.
* Rose was the only all-star on the roster, which featured good/not great guys like Lu Deng, Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah. LeBron (Wade and Bosh) and Durant (Westbrook and Harden) were playing alongside future Hall of Famers.
Thank you
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 26, 2024, 05:10:08 PM
#2 is a major stretch WT. And by major I mean gargantuan/mammoth.
That's cool. 8-)
Quote from: Pakuni on September 26, 2024, 05:49:30 PM
Periodic reminder that MVP doesn't always equal "best" or "best stats."
You definitely could make a statistical argument for others.
The counterargument is that Rose carried a team short on talent* to the best record in the league and his statistical profile wasn't far behind the others.
* Rose was the only all-star on the roster, which featured good/not great guys like Lu Deng, Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah. LeBron (Wade and Bosh) and Durant (Westbrook and Harden) were playing alongside future Hall of Famers.
Wow. The best record in the NBA??? Do they hang a banner for that?
And yes, the MVP means the best player. And Lebron was the best player that year.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 26, 2024, 06:58:14 PM
That's cool. 8-)
Rose could not be guarded because he had tremendous zoomability, quicks, + elevation. There's no doubt about that. When his jumper was on, good luck. You've got a better chance of understanding Finnegan's Wake than checking him off the bounce. That said he's not #2 in this discussion.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 26, 2024, 07:05:42 PM
Wow. The best record in the NBA??? Do they hang a banner for that?
Its a regular season award.
QuoteAnd yes, the MVP means the best player. And Lebron was the best player that year.
MVP stands for Most Bestest Player!
Worth noting that Rose got 113 of 121 first-place votes. There was nothing questionable about the selection at the time.
I can always count on the lame "MVP doesn't mean best" argument to justify a poor selection. And Rose was a poor selection.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 26, 2024, 07:21:06 PM
Rose could not be guarded because he had tremendous zoomability, quicks, + elevation. There's no doubt about that. When his jumper was on, good luck. You've got a better chance of understanding Finnegan's Wake than checking him off the bounce. That said he's not #2 in this discussion.
He is not anywhere close to #2. I only suggested he
could have been based upon his trajectory. We will never know and I find it very reasonable to disagree that he was on that path.
For context, I do find the occasional arguments that Gail Sayers could have been the greatest RB ever to have substance. But I am not passionate about this stuff. Good bar room banter is all I see.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 26, 2024, 08:41:50 PM
I can always count on the lame "MVP doesn't mean best" argument to justify a poor selection. And Rose was a poor selection.
Hippie Satan > NBA writers. 8-)
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 26, 2024, 08:48:39 PM
He is not anywhere close to #2. I only suggested he could have been based upon his trajectory. We will never know and I find it very reasonable to disagree that he was on that path.
For context, I do find the occasional arguments that Gail Sayers could have been the greatest RB ever to have substance. But I am not passionate about this stuff. Good bar room banter is all I see.
I see Rose as a bigger Iverson.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 26, 2024, 09:13:37 PM
I see Rose as a bigger Iverson.
Iverson? Iverson? Are we talking about Iverson? We're not talking about Rose, we're talking about Iverson? ;D
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 26, 2024, 09:18:14 PM
Iverson? Iverson? Are we talking about Iverson? We're not talking about Rose, we're talking about Iverson? ;D
I slot Iverson and Rose ahead of Westbrook. :)
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 26, 2024, 08:41:50 PM
I can always count on the lame "MVP doesn't mean best" argument to justify a poor selection. And Rose was a poor selection.
I'm not arguing. Im stating a fact.
You're free to believe it was a poor choice. Nobody's stopping you. I'm free to point out that 113 of the 121 people who earned a vote - and almost certainly watched more games than you - thought otherwise. Or that the guy you think was the obvious choice didn't even place second. Or that Durant didn't get a single first-place vote.
We can all agree Jordan was more deserving that Barkley. Right? :)
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 26, 2024, 09:57:34 PM
We can all agree Jordan was more deserving that Barkley. Right? :)
The best pound for pound and inch for inch player should get the MVP. :)
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 26, 2024, 10:00:01 PM
The best pound for pound and inch for inch player should get the MVP. :)
Correct give it to the big boys
Cant be letting the lil midgies get rewarded.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 26, 2024, 08:32:59 PM
Its a regular season award.
Worth noting that Rose got 113 of 121 first-place votes. There was nothing questionable about the selection at the time.
Yep. It was a landslide. LeBron got Jill Stein level support that year, which was about right.
lol. Yes God forbid we question the all knowing sportswriters.
Lebron lead every advanced stat category, but had been branded a bad guy due to The Decision. But he had the better season. And that became obvious when he dominated the ECF against Rose's Bulls.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 26, 2024, 02:06:38 PM
I could actually make the argument that he's the least deserving MVP of the past twenty years. And I know we are dealing with hypotheticals here, but he wasn't going to be better than Curry, Durant, Jokic or Giannis.
So this was my original statement. Over the last 20 seasons, Derrick Rose had the third lowest Winshares per 48 of any NBA MVP. The only one's lower were Nash in '04-'05 and Bryant in '07-'08. Ditto for VORP.
Bryant clipped him for total win shares and in PER rating. In both those categories, Rose finishes 19 out of the last 20. BTW, Lebron lead the league in all four categories in 2010-11.
So while I could make the argument Rose was the worst MVP over the last 20 years, I would have to say the Nash MVP in '04-'05 was worse.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 06:42:15 AM
So this was my original statement. Over the last 20 seasons, Derrick Rose had the third lowest Winshares per 48 of any NBA MVP. The only one's lower were Nash in '04-'05 and Bryant in '07-'08. Ditto for VORP.
Bryant clipped him for total win shares and in PER rating. In both those categories, Rose finishes 19 out of the last 20. BTW, Lebron lead the league in all four categories in 2010-11.
So while I could make the argument Rose was the worst MVP over the last 20 years, I would have to say the Nash MVP in '04-'05 was worse.
Didn't Phoenix have the best record in the league in '04-5? I'm not saying Nash deserved the MVP but they were the best reg season team for a couple of years.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 27, 2024, 06:50:41 AM
Didn't Phoenix have the best record in the league in '04-5? I'm not saying Nash deserved the MVP but they were the best reg season team for a couple of years.
Sure. I'm not even saying (like I am with Rose) that he didn't deserve the MVP. Just that of all the MVPs of the last twenty years, Nash had the least impressive resume.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 04:31:17 AM
lol. Yes God forbid we question the all knowing sportswriters.
Lebron lead every advanced stat category, but had been branded a bad guy due to The Decision. But he had the better season. And that became obvious when he dominated the ECF against Rose's Bulls.
Again, it's a regular season award. The vote is taken before the playoffs begin and Rose received the trophy almost two weeks before game one of the ECF.
Suggesting the results of the ECF helps prove LeBron had the better regular season and should have won the regular season MVP award makes zero sense.
Again, you're free to your opinion.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 27, 2024, 07:37:59 AM
Again, it's a regular season award. The vote is taken before the playoffs begin and Rose received the trophy almost two weeks before game one of the ECF.
Suggesting the results of the ECF helps prove LeBron had the better regular season and should have won the regular season MVP award makes zero sense.
Again, you're free to your opinion.
I do believe there was an-anti LeBron vibe back then (still is cuz he's woke). Plus, he had Wade and Bosh. I don't think Sultan is wrong that LeBron had a better year but I think Rose was more valuable to the Bulls.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 27, 2024, 07:41:34 AM
I do believe there was an-anti LeBron vibe back then (still is cuz he's woke). Plus, he had Wade and Bosh. I don't think Sultan is wrong that LeBron had a better year but I think Rose was more valuable to the Bulls.
Then Rose should have been the MVP of the Bulls, not the league.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on September 27, 2024, 07:50:23 AM
Then Rose should have been the MVP of the Bulls, not the league.
Is it best player or most valuable?
LeBron should probably have half a dozen MVPs at a minimum
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 27, 2024, 07:41:34 AM
I do believe there was an-anti LeBron vibe back then (still is cuz he's woke). Plus, he had Wade and Bosh. I don't think Sultan is wrong that LeBron had a better year but I think Rose was more valuable to the Bulls.
Lebron was the two time reigning MVP who had just come off The Decision. To say there was a anti-Lebron vibe is putting it mildly.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 27, 2024, 07:58:57 AM
Is it best player or most valuable?
LeBron should probably have half a dozen MVPs at a minimum
I think that's always been the hard question.
"The NBA Most Valuable Player Award (MVP) is an annual National Basketball Association (NBA) award given since the 1955–56 season to the best performing player of the regular season."
Just going from wikipedia there.
And agree, Lebron should have more.
Yea, if you actually judge it by "value to their team" it would artificially be inflated by superstars on bad teams and Dame would have 3 or 4.
There's also definitely a "voter fatigue" aspect that has probably negatively affected Lebron more than anyone else in the league.
There are cases to be made for players that didn't win it, there are cases to be made against players that did win it. Such is professional sports.
This is from 2017 ... a group of NBA writers discussing what criteria they consider when making their MVP votes.
https://www.nba.com/news/blogtable-what-criteria-matters-most-making-mvp-decision
What do the Knkcks have left to trade?
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
BREAKING: The Minnesota Timberwolves are nearing a trade to send All-Star Karl-Anthony Towns to the New York Knicks, sources tell me and
@JonKrawczynski
.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 27, 2024, 09:17:06 PM
What do the Knkcks have left to trade?
@ShamsCharania
·
1m
BREAKING: The Minnesota Timberwolves are nearing a trade to send All-Star Karl-Anthony Towns to the New York Knicks, sources tell me and
@JonKrawczynski
.
https://x.com/shamscharania/status/1839851556419576290?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
Can't wait to see KAT and the NY media
KAT should do well with the New York Koleks.
Giving Ant a lights out spot shooter helps Minny.
Quote from: MuggsyB on September 28, 2024, 09:16:49 AM
Giving Ant a lights out spot shooter helps Minny.
Am I missing a part of this deal? Are either DDV or Randle that guy? I thought DDV is a better than average shooter, but I don't remember him being lights out.
Quote from: cheebs09 on September 28, 2024, 09:30:54 AM
Am I missing a part of this deal? Are either DDV or Randle that guy? I thought DDV is a better than average shooter, but I don't remember him being lights out.
40% on high volume from 3 both of the past 2 years.
I said at the time that the Bucks traded DDV for Serge that it was a joke, and it's aged even worse than I ever would've imagined.
Thibs wanted a second chance to break KAT
"Ain't no party like a Diddy party." LBJ, on an IG live with P Diddy 4 years ago.
Woops.
He won't be alone.
Just heard on NBA radio, the Lakers have a live DJ at their practices........ can we just crown them champs now? ;D
Quote from: WhiteTrash on October 02, 2024, 08:26:20 AM
Just heard on NBA radio, the Lakers have a live DJ at their practices........ can we just crown them champs now? ;D
Why?