2023-24 NBA Thread

[Skatastrophy]

Looking forward to the chance to win midseason silverware. Should be a blast?

[WhiteTrash]

Looking forward to the chance to win midseason silverware. Should be a blast?

The NBA's CBI. Maybe the Bulls and Magic can hang a banner.

[Spotcheck Billy]

The 1st episode of the Goliath doc on Wilt Chamberlain is excellent, can't wait to finish the other 2.

[MuggsyB]

The 1st episode of the Goliath doc on Wilt Chamberlain is excellent, can't wait to finish the other 2.

Where can I watch that?  I see Showtime but that's it. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

Where can I watch that?  I see Showtime but that's it. 

Showtime only for now.

[MuggsyB]

Showtime only for now.

Ty.

Wilt was very cool.  I have to laugh when the so called experts slot him out of the top 10.  Look at his numbers and deal with reality. 

[MU82]

Wilt's a tough player to slot on all-time lists.

Statistically, he's absolutely top 5 and arguably #1. And it's not as if he only lost; his teams won a huge percentage of their games. He also won two NBA titles -- 1 more than Oscar and Dr. J, the same as Hakeem and Durant, 2 more than Mailman and Stockton, only 1 fewer than Bird, etc. His impact was huge, too -- the literally changed the rules to make him less dominant.

But he so often couldn't lift his team past Russell's Celtics, and he lost to the Knicks when Willis Reed could barely walk. And lots of people didn't like him because he was a trash-talker back when that wasn't considered cool and because he wanted to get paid and because he was "selfish." So he gets docked in some rankings.

The only players I'd definitely rank ahead of Wilt are Jordan, Magic and LeBron. Excellent arguments could be made for Kareem and Russell. I don't see how anybody else could possibly be ahead of him.

[MuggsyB]

Wilt's a tough player to slot on all-time lists.

Statistically, he's absolutely top 5 and arguably #1. And it's not as if he only lost; his teams won a huge percentage of their games. He also won two NBA titles -- 1 more than Oscar and Dr. J, the same as Hakeem and Durant, 2 more than Mailman and Stockton, only 1 fewer than Bird, etc. His impact was huge, too -- the literally changed the rules to make him less dominant.

But he so often couldn't lift his team past Russell's Celtics, and he lost to the Knicks when Willis Reed could barely walk. And lots of people didn't like him because he was a trash-talker back when that wasn't considered cool and because he wanted to get paid and because he was "selfish." So he gets docked in some rankings.

The only players I'd definitely rank ahead of Wilt are Jordan, Magic and LeBron. Excellent arguments could be made for Kareem and Russell. I don't see how anybody else could possibly be ahead of him.

I'm surprised you would slot Magic ahead of Kareem.   My take is it's literally insane not to have Wilt in the top 10 and probably top 5.  I believe Stephen A. Smith had him outside the top 10.  LOL.

[MU82]

I'm surprised you would slot Magic ahead of Kareem.   My take is it's literally insane not to have Wilt in the top 10 and probably top 5.  I believe Stephen A. Smith had him outside the top 10.  LOL.

I appreciate Kareem for sure - what a great career. It wouldn't take a lot of arm-twisting to put him right with Magic, but I'm obviously a big believer in everything Magic brought to the table.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The Lakers wouldn't have been the dominant team of the 80s without both Magic and Kareem, but IMO Magic was more important for those teams than Kareem was. The Lakers were actually pretty average before Magic arrived despite Kareem being at his peak, and I know it was more than just his addition, but they turned it around instantly after he got on board.

And Magic got to the Finals once without Kareem as well.

[lawdog77]

The Lakers wouldn't have been the dominant team of the 80s without both Magic and Kareem, but IMO Magic was more important for those teams than Kareem was. The Lakers were actually pretty average before Magic arrived despite Kareem being at his peak, and I know it was more than just his addition, but they turned it around instantly after he got on board.

And Magic got to the Finals once without Kareem as well.

I think Kareem had a decent career in Milwaukee.

[MU82]

It's not a slam dunk. I rate Magic a little higher than Kareem but I totally could see it being the other way around.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I think Kareem had a decent career in Milwaukee.

Undoubtedly. I was specifically talking about his time with the Lakers. I guess whether or not that was his "peak" is debatable. 

[Uncle Rico]

Kareem is one of the top-5 basketball players of all-time.  Include his amateur career and it’s to find anyone who has as complete a record. 

Had to play on the freshman team in college.  Played three dominant seasons on varsity.  If he doesn’t have to play college ball, who knows what his final career numbers

He gets lost because Magic was the face of the Lakers along with Pat Riley.  Was finals MVP in 1985. 

Any discussion without him is silly

[wadesworld]

Kareem is one of the top-5 basketball players of all-time.  Include his amateur career and it’s to find anyone who has as complete a record. 

Had to play on the freshman team in college.  Played three dominant seasons on varsity.  If he doesn’t have to play college ball, who knows what his final career numbers

He gets lost because Magic was the face of the Lakers along with Pat Riley.  Was finals MVP in 1985. 

Any discussion without him is silly

Agreed.  In my opinion, him and Duncan are the two players who are widely considered all time greats, yet are still underrated/underappreciated.

[lawdog77]

Undoubtedly. I was specifically talking about his time with the Lakers. I guess whether or not that was his "peak" is debatable.

That and trying to give Magic a "point" by saying he made it to a Finals without Kareem. Kareem averaged over 30 points a game in Milwaukee, and won a ring

[Jockey]

Kareem is one of the top-5 basketball players of all-time.  Include his amateur career and it’s to find anyone who has as complete a record. 

Had to play on the freshman team in college.  Played three dominant seasons on varsity.  If he doesn’t have to play college ball, who knows what his final career numbers

He gets lost because Magic was the face of the Lakers along with Pat Riley.  Was finals MVP in 1985. 

Any discussion without him is silly

I rank him ahead of MJ and LeBron.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

That and trying to give Magic a "point" by saying he made it to a Finals without Kareem. Kareem averaged over 30 points a game in Milwaukee, and won a ring

I was specifically talking about their role on the Lakers. Kareem didn't get to the Finals without Magic in LA. Closest he got was a blowout sweep by the Blazers in the WCF.  But Magic did get there without Kareem.

[Jockey]

I was specifically talking about their role on the Lakers. Kareem didn't get to the Finals without Magic in LA. Closest he got was a blowout sweep by the Blazers in the WCF.  But Magic did get there without Kareem.

So you’re comparing it to Curry and Durant- except in that case, you defend Durant despite not being able to win without Curry.

A bit of an inconsistent argument.

[Uncle Rico]

I rank him ahead of MJ and LeBron.

I do, too.  If we’re talking just NBA, fine, put those two ahead of him.  Overall body of work?  Kareem has the edge, imo. 

[Pakuni]

I do, too.  If we’re talking just NBA, fine, put those two ahead of him.  Overall body of work?  Kareem has the edge, imo.

What body of work?
LeBron was going all-star games, leading teams to the NBA playoffs and scoring 30+ ppg in the league at the same age Kareem was dominating undersized and overwhelmed teenagers in college.
Put 20-21 year old LeBron on those UCLA teams, and I don't imagine the results being any different.

[Lennys Tap]

What body of work?

Exactly. What professional athletes in baseball, football, hockey, basketball, etc. did before they reached “the show” is beside the point in discussions about the GOAT. For example, nobody talks about Brady’s less than spectacular career at Michigan. Or looks at minor league stats of Aaron vs Mays.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So you’re comparing it to Curry and Durant- except in that case, you defend Durant despite not being able to win without Curry.

A bit of an inconsistent argument.

???  There is no inconsistency. I think Magic was more important that Kareem in the Lakers success, but said that they would not have been the best team of the 80s without both. They may not have even won a championship if one of them weren't on the team.

What does that have to do with Durant being the better player than Curry when they were on the Warriors together?

[lawdog77]

Exactly. What professional athletes in baseball, football, hockey, basketball, etc. did before they reached “the show” is beside the point in discussions about the GOAT. For example, nobody talks about Brady’s less than spectacular career at Michigan. Or looks at minor league stats of Aaron vs Mays.

OMG. Lenny and Pakuni agree on something! With that being said, most on here who dont have Kareem above Magic never saw Kareem in his prime. Not 33 year old Kareem with the goggles. but Kareem averaging 35 and 17 and 5 with the Bucks and 6 MVPs vs 3 for Magic

[MU82]

I saw all of Kareem's career. He was effen great. Magic was effen great, too.

Body of work? Like Lew, Magic also was pretty darn good in high school and college.

Both were super-duper-duper stars and deserving of all accolades.

I still rank Jordan and James ahead of both, but respect those who disagree.