Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread

[Hards Alumni]

I've been a United Premier 1K for years and am a million miler, mostly domestic flying. The hard product called Polaris is a far cry from United's old International First Class. The soft product is just plain crap. The flight attendants too often are indifferent and think you're nothing more than cargo with an attitude.

The only thing the U.S. airlines know how to do is compete on price. Nobody seems to know how to sell service and customer commitment anymore.

Unfortunately, Delta is marginally better and American is marginally worse. Delta and American high mileage flyers probably think differently, which tells me they are all bad.

The airline industry has been in a race to the bottom for years. Every time I feel like they've found the absolute lowest common denominator, they find a new low point below the Mariana Trench.

My term for what I am is a "U-D-P" for Unprofitable Domestic Passenger.

It's amazing isn't it?  All the carriers lower prices and say they can't provide services because people demand lower prices.   And then after those services are gone, they are free to raise prices as they see fit!  That carry on bag that you used to be able to bring?  NOPE!  Oh, it fits just fine?  Too bad, gate check it since the people in front of you have too many.  Every single year I think that air travel can't get worse, and every single year I'm proven wrong.

[dgies9156]

It's amazing isn't it?  All the carriers lower prices and say they can't provide services because people demand lower prices.   And then after those services are gone, they are free to raise prices as they see fit!  That carry on bag that you used to be able to bring?  NOPE!  Oh, it fits just fine?  Too bad, gate check it since the people in front of you have too many.  Every single year I think that air travel can't get worse, and every single year I'm proven wrong.

For most airlines, railroads and even buses to a degree, there's a simple question that must be asked:

"Are we in the Transportation Business or are we in the Hospitality Business?"

If you're in the transportation business, you move people from Point "A" to Point "B". As long as you fill your vehicle at an acceptable yield, your job is complete. Big seats? More leg room? Heck no, unless your vehicle is empty or your yield sucks. Your staff is onboard not to serve but to ensure only basic human biological needs -- water, bathroom and safety -- are met. Anything else is a waste of time and money.

Spirit, Allegiant, Sun Country and even Southwest are in the basic transportation business. There's no pretense of coddling passengers, making them comfortable or doing anything other than moving a person from Point "A" to "B" in one piece.

United, American and Delta pretend to be in the hospitality business. My experience with United is that it has gone from being the airline equivalent of a Westin-style hotel to a Best Western. Not quite a Motel 6 yet, but it's headed in that direction. On a good day, United might be a Marriott Courtyard or a Hampton Inn. On a bad day, it's a low-budget Holiday Inn against an Interstate Highway noise wall!

Commander Jeff (Smisek, the former CEO of United) made them that way. The only thing airline management knows how to do is to cut costs.

The Asian carriers, Emirates and a few other airlines still are in the hospitality business. That's probably because their governments financially support them when necessary and because they're like the Netherlands -- a small nation with a big airline. The airline is an ambassador of sorts for the country, as people view the country through the airline. The U.S. doesn't need that, thankfully.

[JWags85]

I've been a United Premier 1K for years and am a million miler, mostly domestic flying. The hard product called Polaris is a far cry from United's old International First Class. The soft product is just plain crap. The flight attendants too often are indifferent and think you're nothing more than cargo with an attitude.

Far cry as in an improvement?  Cause the Polaris seats/cabin is actually fantastic and very competitive.   Outside of Qatar, ANA, or other Asian airlines that have "suites" for the seats, the Polaris seats and set up are well reviewed.  Good big TVs, good privacy, etc...

That being said, you couldn't be more right about the soft product.  The bedding is actually REALLY good.  But the food is wildly lackluster, the alcohol selection is meh, and where do you even start with the service?  I flew to India via Dubai in the fall.  On a roughly 14 hour flight, in the 8 hours I was awake, I saw an FA ONCE that wasn't taking my order for dinner/breakfast or bringing the food out.  It was shocking, literally zero proactive service or hospitality.

But then again, when I started flying international, United still had 4 across business seats so you could be shoulder to shoulder between two people and need to climb out over a sleeping passenger to go to the bathroom.  So its all relative and a bit of champagne problems.  I wouldn't trade my worst Polaris experience for an award winning A++++ crew and the old business class.

[Hards Alumni]

Far cry as in an improvement?  Cause the Polaris seats/cabin is actually fantastic and very competitive.   Outside of Qatar, ANA, or other Asian airlines that have "suites" for the seats, the Polaris seats and set up are well reviewed.  Good big TVs, good privacy, etc...

That being said, you couldn't be more right about the soft product.  The bedding is actually REALLY good.  But the food is wildly lackluster, the alcohol selection is meh, and where do you even start with the service?  I flew to India via Dubai in the fall.  On a roughly 14 hour flight, in the 8 hours I was awake, I saw an FA ONCE that wasn't taking my order for dinner/breakfast or bringing the food out.  It was shocking, literally zero proactive service or hospitality.

But then again, when I started flying international, United still had 4 across business seats so you could be shoulder to shoulder between two people and need to climb out over a sleeping passenger to go to the bathroom.  So its all relative and a bit of champagne problems.  I wouldn't trade my worst Polaris experience for an award winning A++++ crew and the old business class.

On a transatlantic flight last November we were supposed to get a meal and then a small breakfast.  The meal had no option, and it was 100% vegetarian and the small breakfast wasn't served due to 'turbulence'.  Which was BS.  I'm guessing the food truck never showed at the original load and the flight was sent with whatever meals they had laying about in Barca when we embarked.

[WarriorFan]

In terms of "hospitality" vs transportation - Singapore Airlines has always done both.  Their economy class is nice but nothing special.  they have always been quite public, however about saying that if their business class is 80% full, they break even for the flight.  Every incremental passenger is profit.  That's how to run an airline!

[dgies9156]

Far cry as in an improvement?  Cause the Polaris seats/cabin is actually fantastic and very competitive.   Outside of Qatar, ANA, or other Asian airlines that have "suites" for the seats, the Polaris seats and set up are well reviewed.  Good big TVs, good privacy, etc...

Brother Wags:

I understand your point but respectfully disagree with you. If you compare United’s Polaris to the crap that passed as 8-across international business (and is still used domestically and to Hawaii), yes, Polaris is a much improved product.

But I’m not impressed with the hard product. It’s pedestrian at best and if you’re taller than 6’2”, it is very cramped. Most of the time, I could not care less how big the TV screen is, since I’m working anyway!

I get that international first on U.S. airlines was upgrade and award country, but that was the airlines own fault for the way they priced and managed it. I still miss it badly. United knew how to treat international first passengers!

[CreightonWarrior]

Southwest moving away from open seating. A welcome change to a concept that wasn’t bad until it was inevitably ruined by human nature.

[MU82]

Over the last 20 years, I've taken 100+ Southwest flights. I never once failed to get an aisle seat. I was never a premier-level flier there and never paid up for the right to move up in the queue, either.

I only recently stopped flying SWA because my son moved to the northern Chicago burbs, so it became too much of a hassle to get to his place when flying into MDW.

Southwest execs claim that more than 80% of the airline's customers want assigned seating, so I hope it works out for them because we need competiitive airlines.

LUV stock is down about 5% premarket FWIW.

[MU1in77]

Over the last 20 years, I've taken 100+ Southwest flights. I never once failed to get an aisle seat. I was never a premier-level flier there and never paid up for the right to move up in the queue, either.

MU - same for us, unless flying internationally and living in the Milwaukee area almost every flight we’ve taken since Midwest went out of business has been on Southwest. My bride and I prefer 2 aisle seats across from each other and I can’t remember then last time we did not get them.

[lawdog77]

Southwest moving away from open seating. A welcome change to a concept that wasn’t bad until it was inevitably ruined by human nature.

I have a feeling this is going to rank right up there with new coke.

[reinko]

Pretty loyal SWA flyer, and I hate this.  I don't want to pay extra because some people can't figure how to check in 24 hours before a flight leaves.  I do like they will begin some redeye's for some of their longer legs.

[JWags85]

Pretty loyal SWA flyer, and I hate this.  I don't want to pay extra because some people can't figure how to check in 24 hours before a flight leaves.  I do like they will begin some redeye's for some of their longer legs.

Are you a business flyer?  There are exceptions, but on a business trip or coming from meetings or whatever, I just can't wrap my head around heading to the airport not knowing my seating situation.  I once had an accident happen in front of my Uber heading to Midway for a SW, got to the airport maybe an hour early instead of 1:45 and security was a snarl.  Beyond worrying about getting to my flight in general, I was stressing about where I would be sitting for a 3+ hour flight to the West Coast.  No thanks.

There is a certain relief to getting through security and just getting to your seat whenever.  I'm also not one to queue up IMMEDIATELY when my group is next, so maybe for that mentality its not a big deal.

[reinko]

Are you a business flyer?  There are exceptions, but on a business trip or coming from meetings or whatever, I just can't wrap my head around heading to the airport not knowing my seating situation.  I once had an accident happen in front of my Uber heading to Midway for a SW, got to the airport maybe an hour early instead of 1:45 and security was a snarl.  Beyond worrying about getting to my flight in general, I was stressing about where I would be sitting for a 3+ hour flight to the West Coast.  No thanks.

There is a certain relief to getting through security and just getting to your seat whenever.  I'm also not one to queue up IMMEDIATELY when my group is next, so maybe for that mentality its not a big deal.

Generally I am not, I do a lot of solo flying to see family, and when I do travel for work I am by myself as well.  In over 100+ SW flights, I have never not gotten to get the seat I want, sure sometimes I am further back than I want to be, but if I want an aisle or window, I have my choice, and never had to gate check either.

Travelers can always purchase Early Bird check in (which I do on early morning flights), which will guarantee an aisle or window, and space in the overhead bin, for usually $15-$25 per leg.

It wont make me stop flying, as they best routes for me (DCA or BWI -> MKE, PHX, LAS, OMA, SJU...), but I am dubious they think 80% of their flyers want assigned seats