2023-24 NBA Thread

[PGsHeroes32]

They/We CLEARLY missed a guy in Tier 2A and he's arguably 1B in S-G-A.  The guy is unbelievable.  I don't think I take Doncic ahead of him.

I''ll gladly lineup to draft after you

[MuggsyB]

I''ll gladly lineup to draft after you

I think he's so much better defensively that I'd probably take him but maybe I'm jumping the gun.  He did average 31.4 ppg last year and was quite efficient.  He also has pretty good turn stats for someone who has the ball so much. 

[MuggsyB]

How good is Edwards?  Wadeesque?  He does have tier 1 blow by speed.  What's his ceiling?  He's only 22. 

[MuggsyB]

Congrats to Latvia.

[Skatastrophy]

How good is Edwards?  Wadeesque?  He does have tier 1 blow by speed.  What's his ceiling?  He's only 22. 

IMO his ceiling has less to do with his physical abilities and more to do with his drive. He's had bouts of not giving a unnatural carnal knowledge.

[MuggsyB]

I'm not always right about college players and their potential in the NBA but I was astonished Brunson fell to the 2nd Rd.  Now, I didn't think he was this good but what in the world were NBA GM's thinking?  Mark Cuban fked up re-signing him big-time.  His footwork and change of speed/direction off the bounce is tremendous.  Tyko reminds me a little of Brunson. 

[wadesworld]

TyTy Washington on a 2 way deal for the Bucks isn't the worst thing.  They'll need some kind of backup point guard, and we've see Wiggington already.  Definitely better than having Drew Timme on a two way.

[WhiteTrash]

I'm not always right about college players and their potential in the NBA but I was astonished Brunson fell to the 2nd Rd.  Now, I didn't think he was this good but what in the world were NBA GM's thinking?  Mark Cuban fked up re-signing him big-time.  His footwork and change of speed/direction off the bounce is tremendous.  Tyko reminds me a little of Brunson.

Brunson - TyKo is a good comparison. I think Brunson is a little more under control. I think on balance we are better off with Tyler being a little more loose. JMHO.

[MuggsyB]

Brunson - TyKo is a good comparison. I think Brunson is a little more under control. I think on balance we are better off with Tyler being a little more loose. JMHO.

Yes.  Brunson is so fundamentally sound and a better scorer.  But if I was Tyko that's the guy I'd be watching a lot of tape of.  I do believe Kolek can play at the NBA level but perhaps needs to work a bit on his catch and shoot trifecta and get better defensively. 

[forgetful]

Saw some discussion about this recently, and was wondering what others think.

The question: How many ppg would prime Michael Jordan score in todays game?

My guess is 40-45 ppg depending on the caliber of teammates. The reasoning: He was averaging 30+ in an era when scoring/pace was significantly lower and largely no one came close to challenging his scoring prominence. His only season at tempos near todays he put up over 37 ppg, and that was still at a slower pace, with hand checking, centers that could camp under the rim, and without an established 3 point focus.

His later "prime seasons" showed he could shoot the 3 effectively.

I know comparing eras is a bit of a fools errand, but I also think many who predominantly watch this era have no idea how dominant MJ was.

[MU82]

Jordan would average a sh!t-ton - your 40-45 estimate sounds reasonable - and he'd still be the best player in the game. I agree he'd hit plenty of 3s.

I do wonder if he'd do what other superstars do now and take some nights off. It's something Jordan refused to do back when he played. Hell, even in 2002-03, when he was 39 and on a bad Wizards team, he played all 82 games.

[WhiteTrash]

Jordan would average a sh!t-ton - your 40-45 estimate sounds reasonable - and he'd still be the best player in the game. I agree he'd hit plenty of 3s.

I do wonder if he'd do what other superstars do now and take some nights off. It's something Jordan refused to do back when he played. Hell, even in 2002-03, when he was 39 and on a bad Wizards team, he played all 82 games.

As crazy is it sounds about the greatest individual brand ever...... MJ was a player and competitor first and a brand second.

Not the case with players these days.

[Herman Cain]

Yes.  Brunson is so fundamentally sound and a better scorer.  But if I was Tyko that's the guy I'd be watching a lot of tape of.  I do believe Kolek can play at the NBA level but perhaps needs to work a bit on his catch and shoot trifecta and get better defensively.

Also needs to be able to effortlessly use his non dominant hand

[lawdog77]

Jordan would average a sh!t-ton - your 40-45 estimate sounds reasonable - and he'd still be the best player in the game. I agree he'd hit plenty of 3s.

I do wonder if he'd do what other superstars do now and take some nights off. It's something Jordan refused to do back when he played. Hell, even in 2002-03, when he was 39 and on a bad Wizards team, he played all 82 games.

I was reading about the "load management" issue, and the players say it is a directive from the team, and not the stars asking for the night off. Whether or not that is the case, but that is what many of the NBA stars say. They say they want to play 82 games, but the team's bean counters have a magic formula.

[forgetful]

I was reading about the "load management" issue, and the players say it is a directive from the team, and not the stars asking for the night off. Whether or not that is the case, but that is what many of the NBA stars say. They say they want to play 82 games, but the team's bean counters have a magic formula.

I had wondered if that was true, and figure that Jordan would largely have no choice but to "load manage." But, maybe that makes him more likely to keep playing and not go play baseball or retire the 1st/2nd time.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I was reading about the "load management" issue, and the players say it is a directive from the team, and not the stars asking for the night off. Whether or not that is the case, but that is what many of the NBA stars say. They say they want to play 82 games, but the team's bean counters have a magic formula.

Not sure it's the "bean counters," but the training staff.

[Hards Alumni]

Saw some discussion about this recently, and was wondering what others think.

The question: How many ppg would prime Michael Jordan score in todays game?

My guess is 40-45 ppg depending on the caliber of teammates. The reasoning: He was averaging 30+ in an era when scoring/pace was significantly lower and largely no one came close to challenging his scoring prominence. His only season at tempos near todays he put up over 37 ppg, and that was still at a slower pace, with hand checking, centers that could camp under the rim, and without an established 3 point focus.

His later "prime seasons" showed he could shoot the 3 effectively.

I know comparing eras is a bit of a fools errand, but I also think many who predominantly watch this era have no idea how dominant MJ was.

Remember he'd also be playing against much better players.

[lawdog77]

Not sure it's the "bean counters," but the training staff.

https://smartabase.com/blog/smartabase-for-nba-load-management/

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

https://smartabase.com/blog/smartabase-for-nba-load-management/

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but aren't "bean counters" accountants? So when you used that term, I was thinking "business related decision" v health and training decision.

[lawdog77]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but aren't "bean counters" accountants? So when you used that term, I was thinking "business related decision" v health and training decision.

I was think closer to an actuary. More along the lines of putting data into a spreadsheet and determining at what #, does it make sense to rest people. Kind of like moneyball.

[MU82]

As crazy is it sounds about the greatest individual brand ever...... MJ was a player and competitor first and a brand second.

Not the case with players these days.

Plenty of today's players are "player and competitor first." Probably most, and certainly the best ones.

I had wondered if that was true, and figure that Jordan would largely have no choice but to "load manage."

Maybe. But Jordan's the guy who famously had a "love of the game" clause in his contract, and it would have been difficult for management or trainers or beancounters to tell him no if he wanted to play.

However, if he were playing in an era when "load management" is the norm, maybe it would have been the norm for him, too. We'll never know.

Remember he'd also be playing against much better players.

Absolutely. But one of the best things about Jordan is that he tended to rise to the occasion.

In the playoffs - especially later rounds, and the Finals - he went up against some of the best players in basketball history. He often dominated them and, once he got a few years of experience under his belt, he almost always defeated them.

[WhiteTrash]

Plenty of today's players are "player and competitor first." Probably most, and certainly the best ones.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that point. The load management and willingness to sit for minor injuries makes me feel it is more about career management than competition.

Now, you can make a very sound argument that Jordan's priorities were wrong. 

[MuggsyB]

With no hand hand checking and the fitness and strength training today Jordan would have averaged:

43-45 ppg, on 53% shooting, 39% from distance and 12-15 FT's a game.  Easily.  Jordan had.no weaknesses, would have practiced the 3-Ball, and been very proficient.  As Bobby Knight stated numerous times Michael is the greatest player in the history of the sport and "by a considerable margin".  Remember, no weaknesses.  My guess is 45, 10, and 8. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

With no hand hand checking and the fitness and strength training today Jordan would have averaged:

43-45 ppg, on 53% shooting, 39% from distance and 12-15 FT's a game.  Easily.  Jordan had.no weaknesses, would have practiced the 3-Ball, and been very proficient.  As Bobby Knight stated numerous times Michael is the greatest player in the history of the sport and "by a considerable margin".  Remember, no weaknesses.  My guess is 45, 10, and 8. 

Oh come on.  Of course MJ is the greatest player to ever play the game, but he isn't averaging 45 ppg. That's 12 more than last year's leading scorer averaged.  And if he's guarding the perimeter, he isn't getting 10 rpg either.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that point. The load management and willingness to sit for minor injuries makes me feel it is more about career management than competition.

It's part career management, but a larger part is that 82 games is a long damn season and you need to be ready for the playoffs.