2023-24 NBA Thread

[Uncle Rico]

What body of work?
LeBron was going all-star games, leading teams to the NBA playoffs and scoring 30+ ppg in the league at the same age Kareem was dominating undersized and overwhelmed teenagers in college.
Put 20-21 year old LeBron on those UCLA teams, and I don't imagine the results being any different.

And we can say the same about Kareem had he been able to play in the NBA out of high school.

He gets dismissed because he played with Magic

[Uncle Rico]

Exactly. What professional athletes in baseball, football, hockey, basketball, etc. did before they reached "the show" is beside the point in discussions about the GOAT. For example, nobody talks about Brady's less than spectacular career at Michigan. Or looks at minor league stats of Aaron vs Mays.

Kareem changed the game of basketball from high school through the pros.  It absolutely should matter.

The same way Lebron did living up to the hype

[MuggsyB]

Is Magic automatically better than Bird?  It seems to me it's about 60/40. 

[lawdog77]

I saw all of Kareem's career. He was effen great. Magic was effen great, too.

Body of work? Like Lew, Magic also was pretty darn good in high school and college.

Both were super-duper-duper stars and deserving of all accolades.

I still rank Jordan and James ahead of both, but respect those who disagree.

As an aside, I thought Greg Kelser had the best game of anyone in that Championship game MSU v ISU.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Is Magic automatically better than Bird?  It seems to me it's about 60/40. 

Yes. Not even a question.

[MU82]

He gets dismissed because he played with Magic

Unk, being a top-5 all-time player that some might rank a tiny tad behind Jordan, James and Magic isn't the same as getting "dismissed."

Is Magic automatically better than Bird?

Sure.

[Uncle Rico]

Unk, being a top-5 all-time player that some might rank a tiny tad behind Jordan, James and Magic isn't the same as getting "dismissed."

Sure.

Poorly worded.  Dismissed by the general basketball populace when this discussion comes up, not necessarily scoop

[MU82]

Poorly worded.  Dismissed by the general basketball populace when this discussion comes up, not necessarily scoop

Understood.

And now that I re-read my response to Muggs it might seem I'm dismissing Bird. That certainly wasn't my intent. Magic was better in the minds and eyes of most non-Celtic-fan observers, but Bird obviously was a hell of a player.

[Uncle Rico]

Understood.

And now that I re-read my response to Muggs it might seem I'm dismissing Bird. That certainly wasn't my intent. Magic was better in the minds and eyes of most non-Celtic-fan observers, but Bird obviously was a hell of a player.

I'd take Bird over Magic and I hated the Celtics. 

[Pakuni]

Yes. Not even a question.

It's not a ridiculous question.
Stats nerds have them pretty close, especially when comparing their peak years.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lebron-or-mj-raptor-picks-the-best-nba-players-of-the-past-40-years/

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=nba+player+efficiency+rating+leaders+all-time

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/vorp_career.html

[MuggsyB]

It's not a ridiculous question.
Stats nerds have them pretty close, especially when comparing their peak years.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lebron-or-mj-raptor-picks-the-best-nba-players-of-the-past-40-years/

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=nba+player+efficiency+rating+leaders+all-time

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/vorp_career.html

I didn't think it was a ridiculous question. 

[4everwarriors]

Petrocelli, wen ewe played with Alcindor at Power Memorial, did Lew ever talk 'bout Al checkin' fore cracked sidewalks in front of hiz crib, hey?

[Jockey]

Is Magic automatically better than Bird?  It seems to me it's about 60/40.

51/49

[lawdog77]

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=nba+player+efficiency+rating+leaders+all-time

Anyone know how they figure out the PER of the old timers when steals and blocks weren't really tracked?

[MuggsyB]

My favorite guy of that era is Moses.  Why is he so disrespected?     I also like Dominique, Bernard King, and George Gervin. 

[MuggsyB]

Bird was like a smaller Jokic??  But a better pure scorer?

[MU82]

I'd take Bird over Magic and I hated the Celtics.

We'll respectfully agree to disagree, Unk.

[MuggsyB]

How good was Nate Archibald in the DPR?  Diminutive Player Rankings.  Behind Thomas, Stockton, and CP3?

[Jockey]

My favorite guy of that era is Moses.  Why is he so disrespected?     I also like Dominique, Bernard King, and George Gervin.

I don't think so. He is not in the top tier with Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Duncan, Robinson.

But still a top 20-25 all timer.

[MuggsyB]

I don't think so. He is not in the top tier with Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Duncan, Robinson.

But still a top 20-25 all timer.

He's  a 3 time MVP I believe.  My hot take is that he and Elgin Baylor should get a bit more credit. 

Hold up a sec.....Robinson?  Did you mean Hakeem and did you forget about Shaq?

[MuggsyB]

My bad....only two MVP's. 

[MuggsyB]

Your 9 man rotation in this era?

[Jockey]

He's  a 3 time MVP I believe.  My hot take is that he and Elgin Baylor should get a bit more credit. 

Hold up a sec.....Robinson?  Did you mean Hakeem and did you forget about Shaq?

Yes, Robinson. But I neglected to add Shaq and Hakeem.

Si, yes Moses doesn't get enough props, but it is because of all the great centers.

[MuggsyB]

Yes, Robinson. But I neglected to add Shaq and Hakeem.

Si, yes Moses doesn't get enough props, but it is because of all the great centers.

I haven't heard many people put Robinson ahead of Moses.  And he clearly wasn't as good as Shaq or Hakeem.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't think so. He is not in the top tier with Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Duncan, Robinson.

But still a top 20-25 all timer.

I missed the comma at first and thought you were nuts