MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: DegenerateDish on September 04, 2012, 03:20:15 PM
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Figured I'd get the ball rolling, so glad to have football back.
Quick Predictions
NFC North
1. Pack 11-5
2. Bears 10-6
3. Lions 9-7
4. Vikings 3-13
Pack still class of both division and conference. Bears improved on offense (sans line) but too many questions on D (safety, middle lineback, d tackle). Lions take step back, mediocre offensive line and no running game catch up with them. Vikings are a long ways away.
Quick other thoughts...
Pack, Giants, Seahawks, Falcons are division winners. Bears and Panthers are wild cards.
Urlacher's last year as a Bear. He's not the player he once was, injuries and time have caught up with him. He still has a lot of value to the Bears and will be a big loss for them. Much like Ray Lewis is to the Ravens, certain guys mean more to their team that they've been with, even when time catches up with them.
Cedric Benson has over 1000 yards and over 6 rushing TD's, love that signing by the Pack.
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Stafford throws for another 5k with Megatron getting 1500. Lack of secondary and running game leave Detroit striving to get to .500. Can't argue with your prediction for standings.
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Stafford throws for another 5k with Megatron getting 1500. Lack of secondary and running game leave Detroit striving to get to .500. Can't argue with your prediction for standings.
I know LeShoure will be back, but he's killing the Lions, I really thought losing him last year was huge for them, and all the off field stuff with him is just adding on. I think Titus Young has a very nice season this year, really high on him.
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Glad you started this thread up. I really can't decide what the Packers' record will be. I think they're the best team in the NFC and I think the defense will be better (Tramon Williams will be back to what he was at the end of the 2010-2011 season which will be huge), but I don't think they end up with the best record in the NFC because their schedule is TOUGH. So tough that I think the Bears have a chance to win the division. It will be a fun season. I'll make my predictions when I have more time tonight to look more closely at the schedules.
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I see a lot of 35-31 games in Detroit's future. No idea who will win..... You are right about that guy. He has the talent, but not the brains so far. Defensively, Detroit is going to have to have the pass rush they were supposed to have last year. Suh and Fairley have to collapse the pocket consistently. If the QB gets 3.5 seconds to plant his feet....fuggedaboutit.
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Glad you started this thread up. I really can't decide what the Packers' record will be. I think they're the best team in the NFC and I think the defense will be better (Tramon Williams will be back to what he was at the end of the 2010-2011 season which will be huge), but I don't think they end up with the best record in the NFC because their schedule is TOUGH. So tough that I think the Bears have a chance to win the division. It will be a fun season. I'll make my predictions when I have more time tonight to look more closely at the schedules.
I think they should be anywhere from 12-4 to 14-2. They went 15-1 with the 2nd worst D in the NFL and now have improved the weak areas. Secondary is still weak, but drafting Perry at OLB should help disrupt passing along with Matthews. D still probably will be bottom half of the NFL but is definately better.
Week 1- vs SF - tough game, win
Week 2 vs CHI - win
Week 3 at SEA - win
Week 4 vs NOLA - win
Week 5 at IND - win
Week 6 at HOU - tough game, loss
Week 7 at STL - win
Week 8 vs JAX - win
Week 9 vs ARI - win
Week 10 - BYE
Week 11 at DET - tough game, win
Week 12 at NYG - tough game, loss
Week 13 vs MIN - win
Week 14 vs DET - win
Week 15 at CHI - tough game, win
Week 16 vs TEN - win
Week 17 at MIN - win
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Figured I'd get the ball rolling, so glad to have football back.
Quick Predictions
NFC North
1. Pack 11-5
2. Bears 10-6
3. Lions 9-7
4. Vikings 3-13
Pack still class of both division and conference. Bears improved on offense (sans line) but too many questions on D (safety, middle lineback, d tackle). Lions take step back, mediocre offensive line and no running game catch up with them. Vikings are a long ways away.
Quick other thoughts...
Pack, Giants, Seahawks, Falcons are division winners. Bears and Panthers are wild cards.
Urlacher's last year as a Bear. He's not the player he once was, injuries and time have caught up with him. He still has a lot of value to the Bears and will be a big loss for them. Much like Ray Lewis is to the Ravens, certain guys mean more to their team that they've been with, even when time catches up with them.
Cedric Benson has over 1000 yards and over 6 rushing TD's, love that signing by the Pack.
No way I see Seattle beating out SanFran in the West. SanFran improved this offseason from an already 13-3 team and Seattle is relying on a rookie QB.
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Figured I'd get the ball rolling, so glad to have football back.
Quick Predictions
NFC North
1. Pack 11-5
2. Bears 10-6
3. Lions 9-7
4. Vikings 3-13
Pack still class of both division and conference.
CONSENSUS????
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I forgot how brutal the first 4 weeks are for the Pack, I think they'll come out of 2-2, which would still make them the favorites in the conference.
I love the Seahawks this year, Wilson seems to have "it", and they have a huge home field advantage, and came on very strong towards the end of last season. Their sked is so much more favorable than San Fran's. GB, Dal, NE, Jets all go to Seattle. San Fran goes to GB, NE, Jets, NO and gets Bears, Giants, Lions at home. San Fran's schedule is brutal.
Every year 3 or 4 teams from last year don't make it back to the tournament from each conference, can't go all chalk from last year.
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I forgot how brutal the first 4 weeks are for the Pack, I think they'll come out of 2-2, which would still make them the favorites in the conference.
I love the Seahawks this year, Wilson seems to have "it", and they have a huge home field advantage, and came on very strong towards the end of last season. Their sked is so much more favorable than San Fran's. GB, Dal, NE, Jets all go to Seattle. San Fran goes to GB, NE, Jets, NO and gets Bears, Giants, Lions at home. San Fran's schedule is brutal.
Every year 3 or 4 teams from last year don't make it back to the tournament from each conference, can't go all chalk from last year.
I wouldnt call it "brutal." San Fran is beatable and GB is at home, the Chicago game week 2 should be no problem, you are overrating Seattle and I see them at best going like 8-8, and New Orleans could be hurt from loss of Sean Payton. I think at worst they go 3-1 and could definately go 4-0.
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Glad you started this thread up. I really can't decide what the Packers' record will be. I think they're the best team in the NFC and I think the defense will be better (Tramon Williams will be back to what he was at the end of the 2010-2011 season which will be huge), but I don't think they end up with the best record in the NFC because their schedule is TOUGH. So tough that I think the Bears have a chance to win the division. It will be a fun season. I'll make my predictions when I have more time tonight to look more closely at the schedules.
??? They have the 2nd easiest schedule in the league based on last year's winning percentage. Anything less than 12 wins will be a disappointment. After the sting of last year's playoff loss they are also the hands-on favorite to make the Super Bowl.
Pack - 13-3
Lions - 10-6
Bears - 9-7
Vikes - 4-12
I know a lot of people like the Bears over the Lions, but Detroit has a significant advantage at the most important position, which I think gives them the edge.
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??? They have the 2nd easiest schedule in the league based on last year's winning percentage. Anything less than 12 wins will be a disappointment. After the sting of last year's playoff loss they are also the hands-on favorite to make the Super Bowl.
Pack - 13-3
Lions - 10-6
Bears - 9-7
Vikes - 4-12
I know a lot of people like the Bears over the Lions, but Detroit has a significant advantage at the most important position, which I think gives them the edge.
I like Megatron as much as the next guy and realize he's better than Marshall, but I don't know if it's that significant.
I say that knowing you can't possibly be talking about Cutler and Stafford.
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I like a good Christian.
SKOL VIKINGS! NFC North Champs!
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I like a good Christian.
SKOL VIKINGS! NFC North Champs!
You drinking Sid's kool-aid? ;)
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I know a lot of people like the Bears over the Lions, but Detroit has a significant advantage at the most important position, which I think gives them the edge.
Are you referring to WR or DT as the most important position?
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Are you referring to WR or DT as the most important position?
Haha, you and Dish are cute :)
Stafford >> Cutler in my book
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Haha, you and Dish are cute :)
Stafford >> Cutler in my book
Stafford is a good, young QB who puts up big numbers but he's aided by the fact that he has the best WR in football on his team and throws the ball 40 times a game.
BTW, how's his team done against Cutler's in his career? ;)
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(https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCT8Ic8bUw5CznFslg78WEVrINMZRkItRFo7jABQjAzmNl_WM2QQ) vs. (https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT0DhYbO6pfSGRygY7cqqNwapAXk9st35-i6jk2m1gvT-2Df7XX)
(https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGxiFxcULKPk6QSNn7gP6MdidHZ5h9SabFBhxfOHTvJh791b4N)
A-Rod is ready for this debacle.
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Stafford is a good, young QB who puts up big numbers but he's aided by the fact that he has the best WR in football on his team and throws the ball 40 times a game.
Cutler had a pretty good wr in Denver and threw a ton, but his numbers have always been fairly pedestrian by today's standards (never over a 89 rating in any season--not that it's a perfect stat).
BTW, how's his team done against Cutler's in his career? ;)
1-3 in games Stafford has played. Would be 2-2 if the best wr in football held on to the ball for 1 more second.
To me, if Stafford stays healthy (and that's still a pretty big if) he's a better qb by a decent margin (Cutler also has some injury issues as well now). I could see how Bears fans wanna/could argue, but I just don't agree.
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I have no problem with saying Stafford is better than Cutler, but there's no way he's significantly better. Consider Pro Bowls (Cutler 1, Stafford 0), Playoff Wins (Cutler 1, Stafford 0), Seasons starting all 16 games (Cutler 3, Stafford 1).
Stafford is injury prone, Cutler is not. While you can say Megatron helps Stafford's stats (which is true), you can't knock that against Stafford either. As another example, Detroit's awful running game greatly inflated Staffords stats last year. Stafford had 4 games of 50(!) or more attempts. When you look closer at last year, consider how Stafford inflated his stats against inferior pass defenses (nothing wrong with that either), but his numbers were worse against stiffer competition.
Prior to injuring his thumb trying to make a tackle, let's look at Stafford and Cutler's stats against same opponents. For arguments sake, since Cutler only faced the Vikes and Packers at home, I'm using Stafford's home game stats against those same two teams.
Sample size is 9 games (Atl, NO, GB (home), Min (home), SD, Car, TB, Det/Chi home and home)
Cutler 2111 yds on 282 pass attempts, avg yds per attempt 7.48 yds, 11 TD, 7 Int (1 in every 40 attempts)
Stafford 2655 yds on 344 attempts, avg yds per attempts, 7.71 yds, 19 TD, 12 Int (1 in every 29 attempts)
Since stats don't lie, I'm having a tough time seeing a significant advantage there.
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I have no problem with saying Stafford is better than Cutler, but there's no way he's significantly better. Consider Pro Bowls (Cutler 1, Stafford 0), Playoff Wins (Cutler 1, Stafford 0), Seasons starting all 16 games (Cutler 3, Stafford 1).
Stafford is injury prone, Cutler is not. While you can say Megatron helps Stafford's stats (which is true), you can't knock that against Stafford either. As another example, Detroit's awful running game greatly inflated Staffords stats last year. Stafford had 4 games of 50(!) or more attempts. When you look closer at last year, consider how Stafford inflated his stats against inferior pass defenses (nothing wrong with that either), but his numbers were worse against stiffer competition.
Prior to injuring his thumb trying to make a tackle, let's look at Stafford and Cutler's stats against same opponents. For arguments sake, since Cutler only faced the Vikes and Packers at home, I'm using Stafford's home game stats against those same two teams.
Sample size is 9 games (Atl, NO, GB (home), Min (home), SD, Car, TB, Det/Chi home and home)
Cutler 2111 yds on 282 pass attempts, avg yds per attempt 7.48 yds, 11 TD, 7 Int (1 in every 40 attempts)
Stafford 2655 yds on 344 attempts, avg yds per attempts, 7.71 yds, 19 TD, 12 Int (1 in every 29 attempts)
Since stats don't lie, I'm having a tough time seeing a significant advantage there.
Let's just all argue they're both swarmy, douchebag looking unnatural carnal knowledges.
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Let's just all argue they're both swarmy, douchebag looking fracks.
Where's the argument in that? Seems pretty straight forward.
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Where's the argument in that? Seems pretty straight forward.
That's why everyone will agree, duh.
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That's why everyone will agree, duh.
Swarmy no, smarmy yes.
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No way I see Seattle beating out SanFran in the West. SanFran improved this offseason from an already 13-3 team and Seattle is relying on a rookie QB.
San fran will come back to earth a little this year. I still think they win the division, but 13-3 last year was against a very weak schedule including a ridculous nfc west.
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I think this year is going to look a lot more like 2010 than it will 2011 for the Packers. I can see a 10-6 season...I don't think their lines are all that good and their defensive backfield still worries me. If they can get their act together, they could make a run in the playoffs, but I don't see them plowing through the regular season again this year.
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I think this year is going to look a lot more like 2010 than it will 2011 for the Packers. I can see a 10-6 season...I don't think their lines are all that good and their defensive backfield still worries me. If they can get their act together, they could make a run in the playoffs, but I don't see them plowing through the regular season again this year.
The only way to stop rodgers is pass rush.
If the Packers o-line can hold up, they will win a lot of games 36-30. (13-3)
If the o-line doesn't hold up, they will lose some games 30-24. (10-6)
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Sample size is 9 games (Atl, NO, GB (home), Min (home), SD, Car, TB, Det/Chi home and home)
Cutler 2111 yds on 282 pass attempts, avg yds per attempt 7.48 yds, 11 TD, 7 Int (1 in every 40 attempts)
Stafford 2655 yds on 344 attempts, avg yds per attempts, 7.71 yds, 19 TD, 12 Int (1 in every 29 attempts)
Since stats don't lie, I'm having a tough time seeing a significant advantage there.
Stats don't lie, but sometimes they don't tell the whole story. I like how you broke down the yardage and interception frequency, but ignored the TD pass frequency (because it doesn't favor your argument).
From your small sample size:
Cutler - 1 TD every 26 attempts
Stafford - 1 TD every 18 attempts
I love the Bears, but sometimes Jay Cutler is god awful. When he is on and the o-line is doing their job, he will march down the field with the best of them. But there are a handful of games over the past few years where the Bears passing game just looked pathetic.
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I think this year is going to look a lot more like 2010 than it will 2011 for the Packers. I can see a 10-6 season...I don't think their lines are all that good and their defensive backfield still worries me. If they can get their act together, they could make a run in the playoffs, but I don't see them plowing through the regular season again this year.
Disagree, I think Rodgers is too good for that to happen. Their offensive line is actually pretty good now if everyone stays healthy (they have horrendous depth) and their defensive line should be much better with the additions they made, especially taking some of the load off Raji and allowing him to make more plays again. I think LB is still a question, only Mathews is proven. Smith and Perry have talent but are untested. Hawk is "assignment sure" as the coaches like to say, but he doesn't make any big plays. The defensive backfield will be much better if they can get any kind of a decent pass-rush. I think you'll see a bounce-back season from Tramon Williams after his injury, but both the nickel cb and strong safety worry me a bit, although at least they seems to have multiple options at both (maybe Shields can return to the form he flashed at the end of his rookie year). However, with their cake schedule, I just don't see 6 losses there.
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I love the Bears, but sometimes Jay Cutler is god awful. When he is on and the o-line is doing their job, he will march down the field with the best of them. But there are a handful of games over the past few years where the Bears passing game just looked pathetic.
No doubt Cutler can be frustrating to watch at times but the fact that Earl Bennett (a nice #3) has been his best WR while in Chicago has a lot to do with the passing game struggles. IOW, if WRs aren't where they're supposed to be and/or a QB doesn't trust his WRs to be where they're supposed to be, things can get ugly fast.
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If anybody needs Packer tickets let me know...
(Green Bay package, section 122, Row 6, seats 22, 23) Seats are on the end in the aisle.
Gracias.
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If anybody needs Packer tickets let me know...
(Green Bay package, section 122, Row 6, seats 22, 23) Seats are on the end in the aisle.
Gracias.
How much, and all games?
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If anybody needs Packer tickets let me know...
(Green Bay package, section 122, Row 6, seats 22, 23) Seats are on the end in the aisle.
Gracias.
I'd love Packer tickets. PM me with further information as to price and games. Thanks!
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To be honest, i really don't feel like calling Ticketmaster, etc to see what they want and what the prices are going for. I do have all of the games, except this sunday.
I'm not looking to make a killing on the tickets, I think $20 above face value is fair, perhaps we can workout some sort of a MU deal, since i rather go to a MU game anyday before a cold Packer game.
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To be honest, i really don't feel like calling Ticketmaster, etc to see what they want and what the prices are going for. I do have all of the games, except this sunday.
I'm not looking to make a killing on the tickets, I think $20 above face value is fair, perhaps we can workout some sort of a MU deal, since i rather go to a MU game anyday before a cold Packer game.
Could I call dibs on the Bears game next Thursday? And possibly the Lions game?
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Stats don't lie, but sometimes they don't tell the whole story. I like how you broke down the yardage and interception frequency, but ignored the TD pass frequency (because it doesn't favor your argument).
From your small sample size:
Cutler - 1 TD every 26 attempts
Stafford - 1 TD every 18 attempts
I love the Bears, but sometimes Jay Cutler is god awful. When he is on and the o-line is doing their job, he will march down the field with the best of them. But there are a handful of games over the past few years where the Bears passing game just looked pathetic.
I didn't go for TD's not because it didn't support my argument, but the variance isn't that great, it really isn't.
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I didn't go for TD's not because it didn't support my argument, but the variance isn't that great, it really isn't.
But interceptions is???
Int - 1 in 29 compared to 1 in 40 = 38% difference
TDs - 1 in 18 compared to 1 in 26 = 44% difference
Even your hand-picked stats don't favor Cutler, although they don't favor Stafford by much. Jay has never had a season that approached what Stafford did statistically last year, good WRs or not, feasting against weak competition or not.
I was going to let this debate die but since it's been brought up again by others:
Did you really use pro bowls to support your argument? The pro bowl selections are laughable and should never, ever enter a debate regarding the value of players. When Rodgers missed out two years ago and Stafford missed out last year, but the great Andy Dalton makes it last year or Donald Driver in 2010 when he had 51 catches for 565 yards and 4 tds, you know those "honors" don't have a lot of merit.
You say Stafford is injury prone (he is/was) but Cutler is not. However Cutler has been unable to finish the last 2 seasons (including an NFC title game!!) and also has a history of concussions. How many exactly is tough to pinpoint, but you can bet anything that resembles one these days will be highly scrutinized in this crackdown on brain trauma. i won't go so far as to say Cutler is injury prone, but he's also no Brett Favre.
People have different opinions of course, I happen to think Stafford is on the cusp of being elite, while Cutler is an above average NFL starter. However, I'll freely admit my Packers-Bears bias may influence my thinking!! :)
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But interceptions is???
Int - 1 in 29 compared to 1 in 40 = 38% difference
TDs - 1 in 18 compared to 1 in 26 = 44% difference
Even your hand-picked stats don't favor Cutler, although they don't favor Stafford by much. Jay has never had a season that approached what Stafford did statistically last year, good WRs or not, feasting against weak competition or not.
I was going to let this debate die but since it's been brought up again by others:
Did you really use pro bowls to support your argument? The pro bowl selections are laughable and should never, ever enter a debate regarding the value of players. When Rodgers missed out two years ago and Stafford missed out last year, but the great Andy Dalton makes it last year or Donald Driver in 2010 when he had 51 catches for 565 yards and 4 tds, you know those "honors" don't have a lot of merit.
You say Stafford is injury prone (he is/was) but Cutler is not. However Cutler has been unable to finish the last 2 seasons (including an NFC title game!!) and also has a history of concussions. How many exactly is tough to pinpoint, but you can bet anything that resembles one these days will be highly scrutinized in this crackdown on brain trauma. i won't go so far as to say Cutler is injury prone, but he's also no Brett Favre.
People have different opinions of course, I happen to think Stafford is on the cusp of being elite, while Cutler is an above average NFL starter. However, I'll freely admit my Packers-Bears bias may influence my thinking!! :)
Yup on the interceptions.
I never said they favored Cutler, I was going against your argument that you said Stafford was significantly better than Cutler (thank you for saying "they don't favor Stafford by much") which just helps correct your original statement, that yes, is influenced by your bias.
I'm all for good football arguments, but the glasses need to be taken off. Again, I have no issue with someone saying Stafford is better. He's got one of the best arms in football (Cutler is up there too).
I said for arguments sake about Pro Bowl's, I don't put much value in them either. Cutler has had concussions, but only missed 1 game in 2010 because of them. Again, for arguments sake, Cutler has 3 seasons of 16 games, 1 season of 15 games. In 3 seasons Stafford has 1 full season. Just sayin.
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FOOTBALL! FOOTBALL! FOOTBALL! FOOTBALL! FOOTBALL! FOOTBALL! FOOTBALL!
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How'd Christian Ponder look today, bj?
making progress and worth the 10th pick thus far?
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Up 3. Vikes win. He had a good game.
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Thought he would be pretty good...a buddy was saying he's still only reading about half the field each time he drops. Vikes need another receiver.
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20/27' 270 yards.
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AP, 2 td's. New kicker won the gane. Booted a 50+ yd fg to go to OT.
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My goodness are these replacement refs TERRIBLE. Not benefiting either team, but they are missing *very* obvious calls in the Packer / 49er game.
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Cobb TD should not have been.
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Cobb TD should not have been.
Agreed the 2nd block they showed was illegal. They have missed a ton of PI calls though. Very inconsistent on both sides. I would think there will be a loud outcry to get the regular refs back this week.
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GO NINERS!!!!
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Ponder, AD, Percy, Rudolph all w/solid offensive games.
49ers winning was good, but Harbaugh is a grade a jag.
SKOL VIKINGS. FIRST PLACE, NFC NORTH! Packers are getting worried about the 12/30 game in Minneapolis..
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My goodness are these replacement refs TERRIBLE. Not benefiting either team, but they are missing *very* obvious calls in the Packer / 49er game.
I agree that the replacements are living up to their reputation, but the utter lack of respect for the officials from the coaches, players and media is getting very tired.
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I agree that the replacements are living up to their reputation, but the utter lack of respect for the officials from the coaches, players and media is getting very tired.
I think part of that reaction is carry-over bad blood from last year's labor negotiations. Players are seeing the league's refusal to pay another major part of its in-game experience as simply par for the course, and adding insult to injury after last year's hostility and the questions yet relative lack of response over player safety. Its hard to disagree with them at this point.
Then, the replacement refs are doing such a crapty job, that the coaches are pissed, and with such unanimity amongst the participants, the media piles on. The bar for the replacement refs, fairly or not, was going to be very high. They're failing pretty spectacularly.
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Ponder, AD, Percy, Rudolph all w/solid offensive games.
49ers winning was good, but Harbaugh is a grade a jag.
SKOL VIKINGS. FIRST PLACE, NFC NORTH! Packers are getting worried about the 12/30 game in Minneapolis..
You're just jealous Childress and Frazier never get amped and make you want to scream obscenities, pump your arms in the air and raise the testosterone levels in your body so high Melky Cabrera would blush.
SKOL!!!
(http://www.csmngt.com/skoal%20man.jpg)
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No doubt Cutler can be frustrating to watch at times but the fact that Earl Bennett (a nice #3) has been his best WR while in Chicago has a lot to do with the passing game struggles.
It was great to see what Jay could do yesterday with a true #1, and a promising #2 with a big "catch radius" (first time I ever heard that one).
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Agreed the 2nd block they showed was illegal. They have missed a ton of PI calls though. Very inconsistent on both sides. I would think there will be a loud outcry to get the regular refs back this week.
I didn't watch the Packer game, but from watching the Bears game and Red Zone all day, these replacement refs made way too many PI calls.
There were 25 defensive PI calls made yesterday, which equals the previous two years week 1 totals combined.
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Excited for tonight's game. Pack has lost 2 in a row at home, however, they've played the Super Bowl champs, and the other NFC title game opponent. Bears looked very good last week, but played last year's worst team.
That said, this appears to be quite a different Bear team from what the Pack is used to seeing. Pack will work to exploit the Bears up the middle with Urlacher hurt and questionable play at safety. I think Matthews will have a real good game, and Capers will bring heat off the edges forcing the Bears mediocre offensive line to make quick decisions.
All that said, I still think we see a lot of points. I'm going with Bears 31, Pack 23.
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I like the Cutler/Forte combo but I like Pack O more. See them splitting this year, home team wins. Especially with these fickle replacement refs.
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Dear Packers,
Enjoy the win we gave you.
Sincerely,
The Chicago Bears & Replacement Refs
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WTF was that dummy Tice? Cutler looked like sh.t
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It was great to see what Jay could do yesterday with a true #1, and a promising #2 with a big "catch radius" (first time I ever heard that one).
That was cute...for a weak...against a terrible team. It takes a quarterback to get the ball to a "true" #1 (although he is as big of a headcase as you can find). The Bears will never make a Super Bowl with Jay Cutler behind center. He is horrible.
http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/8366405/chicago-bears-jay-cutler-brandon-marshall-welcome-green-bay-packers-physical-style
Didn't take much luck, just Jay Cutler being the quarterback. But appreciate the thought, Jay!
http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=320913009
11 of 27, 4 interceptions, 1 touchdown, 28.2 passer rating, 7 sacks. Yikes.
Why doesn't Iowa have an NFL team? Because then Illinois and Minnesota would want one too!
The best sign of the night: (A little girl holding it up) I'm three yrs. old & I cry less than Jay Cutler
Could not be more true. Good luck with big time success with a guy like that leading your team.
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Dear Packers,
Enjoy the win we gave you.
Sincerely,
The Chicago Bears & Replacement Refs
Can you cite an example of the refs making a mistake (on an actual call, there were quite a few mess-ups when explaining the calls)?
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Can you cite an example of the refs making a mistake (on an actual call, there were quite a few mess-ups when explaining the calls)?
- 12 men on the field call that was reviewed. Roach was off the field. Led to 3 points for GB instead of a punt.
- Williams' INT clearly hit the ground. Led to 3 points for GB.
- Personal foul call on Carimi should have been off-setting or nothing. Moved Bears from 2nd and 11 at GB 38 to 2nd and 26 at own 47.
- Illegal contact call on Wright. He stood there and Finley ran into him. Instead of 2nd and 10 at CHI 38, 1st and 10 at CHI 33.
- Raji (maybe Pickett?) grabbed Allen's facemask not once, but twice, while bringing him down in the backfield. Led to 3rd and 6 at own 41 instead of 1st and 10 at GB 44.
How's that?
Don't get me wrong, the Bears did plenty to lose this game by themselves but the Packer-friendly officiating didn't help.
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- 12 men on the field call that was reviewed. Roach was off the field. Led to 3 points for GB instead of a punt.
- Williams' INT clearly hit the ground. Led to 3 points for GB.
- Personal foul call on Carimi should have been off-setting or nothing. Moved Bears from 2nd and 11 at GB 38 to 2nd and 26 at own 47.
- Illegal contact call on Wright. He stood there and Finley ran into him. Instead of 2nd and 10 at CHI 38, 1st and 10 at CHI 33.
- Raji (maybe Pickett?) grabbed Allen's facemask not once, but twice, while bringing him down in the backfield. Led to 3rd and 6 at own 41 instead of 1st and 10 at GB 44.
How's that?
Don't get me wrong, the Bears did plenty to lose this game by themselves but the Packer-friendly officiating didn't help.
Lol. Come on man. Your quarterback had a 28.2 passer rating. He was 11 for 27 with 4 interceptions and was sacked 7 times. The refs had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome, whether they were horrible or great. Your quarterback is awful and that determined the outcome of the game.
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With the Vikings favorites and Detroit dogs this weekend, the consensus is........
MINNESOTA VIKINGS will be alone at the top of the NFC North on Sunday! SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!
Tonight, both teams looked somewhere between bad and ordinary.
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- 12 men on the field call that was reviewed. Roach was off the field. Led to 3 points for GB instead of a punt.
- Williams' INT clearly hit the ground. Led to 3 points for GB.
- Personal foul call on Carimi should have been off-setting or nothing. Moved Bears from 2nd and 11 at GB 38 to 2nd and 26 at own 47.
- Illegal contact call on Wright. He stood there and Finley ran into him. Instead of 2nd and 10 at CHI 38, 1st and 10 at CHI 33.
- Raji (maybe Pickett?) grabbed Allen's facemask not once, but twice, while bringing him down in the backfield. Led to 3rd and 6 at own 41 instead of 1st and 10 at GB 44.
How's that?
Don't get me wrong, the Bears did plenty to lose this game by themselves but the Packer-friendly officiating didn't help.
12 men on the field. I watched that frame by frame on dvr. His foot was still on the field when the ball moved. Correct call.
Did the ball move? It's allowed to hit the ground, as long as the player maintains possession/control. I don't think it was clear if the ball moved or not. Tough to overturn.
Yes, but that's football. The 2nd guys gets flagged often. It sucks for the Bears, but it is what it is.
Agreed, probably would have been a good no call. But I thought there was a very questionable reach-around with the back arm of the defender on Nelson one of the 1st few plays of the game that was not called.
Yes, I thought that at first but did he twist it or pull it? (I'm actually not sure, I didn't really watch the replay and already deleted the game). Incidental contact of the facemask is allowed (cough, Rodgers, Arizona, cough), but that is still called more often that not.
Refs aside, getting outgained nearly 2 to 1, losing the TO battle 4-2, and getting sacked 7 times is a recipe for a loss 99% of the time.
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I'm still routinely puzzled about all this "Jay Cutler cries" BS that people love jumping on. Why, cause he gets pissed at his offensive lineman for being worthless? Dude gets hit more than any other QB in the league and its happened for the 3rd consecutive year. Nothing is being done to stop it. That is the story of the game. If you watch Cutler escape from collapsing pockets impressively 3-4 times in one drive in the 4th quarter, you know that those 7 sacks could have easily been 10+. Did he play well? No, but I just find it amusing that non-Bears fans are so quick to put it on Cutler. He had 1 pick that was his fault, which was the terrible underthrow to Marshall. Woodson's was a boneheaded play by Bennett and the other two may or may not have been picks. Add Forte getting hurt and what do you have. No running game, no pass protection, yet you expect him to put up numbers? Its unfair.
Also when is the league gonna do something about Clay Matthews. He's a tremendous pass rusher, but for as much as this league protects QBs, that dude tries to bodyslam QBs everytime he gets a chance. Then finds the need to push on Cutler's chest after that last sack. You're already one of the best pass rushers in the league. No need to give further credence to people thinking you're a roided up meathead.
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I'm still routinely puzzled about all this "Jay Cutler cries" BS that people love jumping on. Why, cause he gets pissed at his offensive lineman for being worthless? Dude gets hit more than any other QB in the league and its happened for the 3rd consecutive year. Nothing is being done to stop it. That is the story of the game. If you watch Cutler escape from collapsing pockets impressively 3-4 times in one drive in the 4th quarter, you know that those 7 sacks could have easily been 10+. Did he play well? No, but I just find it amusing that non-Bears fans are so quick to put it on Cutler. He had 1 pick that was his fault, which was the terrible underthrow to Marshall. Woodson's was a boneheaded play by Bennett and the other two may or may not have been picks. Add Forte getting hurt and what do you have. No running game, no pass protection, yet you expect him to put up numbers? Its unfair.
Also when is the league gonna do something about Clay Matthews. He's a tremendous pass rusher, but for as much as this league protects QBs, that dude tries to bodyslam QBs everytime he gets a chance. Then finds the need to push on Cutler's chest after that last sack. You're already one of the best pass rushers in the league. No need to give further credence to people thinking you're a roided up meathead.
(http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/863/347/108291002_crop_650x440.jpg?1302838419)
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- 12 men on the field call that was reviewed. Roach was off the field. Led to 3 points for GB instead of a punt.
- Williams' INT clearly hit the ground. Led to 3 points for GB.
- Personal foul call on Carimi should have been off-setting or nothing. Moved Bears from 2nd and 11 at GB 38 to 2nd and 26 at own 47.
- Illegal contact call on Wright. He stood there and Finley ran into him. Instead of 2nd and 10 at CHI 38, 1st and 10 at CHI 33.
- Raji (maybe Pickett?) grabbed Allen's facemask not once, but twice, while bringing him down in the backfield. Led to 3rd and 6 at own 41 instead of 1st and 10 at GB 44.
How's that?
Don't get me wrong, the Bears did plenty to lose this game by themselves but the Packer-friendly officiating didn't help.
To suggest that these type of questionable calls don't happen (to all teams) with the regular refs is madness. Cutler was awful, the Oline was equally bad, and the Bears got their butts whipped. It happens. Blaming the refs is the losers' lament.
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I'm still routinely puzzled about all this "Jay Cutler cries" BS that people love jumping on. Why, cause he gets pissed at his offensive lineman for being worthless? Dude gets hit more than any other QB in the league and its happened for the 3rd consecutive year. Nothing is being done to stop it. That is the story of the game. If you watch Cutler escape from collapsing pockets impressively 3-4 times in one drive in the 4th quarter, you know that those 7 sacks could have easily been 10+. Did he play well? No, but I just find it amusing that non-Bears fans are so quick to put it on Cutler. He had 1 pick that was his fault, which was the terrible underthrow to Marshall. Woodson's was a boneheaded play by Bennett and the other two may or may not have been picks. Add Forte getting hurt and what do you have. No running game, no pass protection, yet you expect him to put up numbers? Its unfair.
Also when is the league gonna do something about Clay Matthews. He's a tremendous pass rusher, but for as much as this league protects QBs, that dude tries to bodyslam QBs everytime he gets a chance. Then finds the need to push on Cutler's chest after that last sack. You're already one of the best pass rushers in the league. No need to give further credence to people thinking you're a roided up meathead.
wah, wah, wah.
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"We understand that Jay is excited about his new weapons, but it's the same-old Jay. We don't need luck; Jay will throw us the ball." - Charles Woodson
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LOL, jsonline can't spellcheck their own headlines
Total teem effort: Matthews leads charge on 'D'
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/169695966.html
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- Personal foul call on Carimi should have been off-setting or nothing. Moved Bears from 2nd and 11 at GB 38 to 2nd and 26 at own 47.
rookie mistake (I know he's in his 2nd year but really still a rookie after being out last year) great acting job by Hawk leaping over the pile too!
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Tonight, both teams looked somewhere between bad and ordinary.
Bad and ordinary is still significantly better than the queens.
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I'm still routinely puzzled about all this "Jay Cutler cries" BS that people love jumping on. Why, cause he gets pissed at his offensive lineman for being worthless? Dude gets hit more than any other QB in the league and its happened for the 3rd consecutive year. Nothing is being done to stop it. That is the story of the game. If you watch Cutler escape from collapsing pockets impressively 3-4 times in one drive in the 4th quarter, you know that those 7 sacks could have easily been 10+. Did he play well? No, but I just find it amusing that non-Bears fans are so quick to put it on Cutler. He had 1 pick that was his fault, which was the terrible underthrow to Marshall. Woodson's was a boneheaded play by Bennett and the other two may or may not have been picks. Add Forte getting hurt and what do you have. No running game, no pass protection, yet you expect him to put up numbers? Its unfair.
I agree with you here. He has to yell at his OL because he can't yell at his coaching staff - at some point you have to keep a TE or RB in to help. He's lucky the refs decided not to call holding very often or else he probably would have been sacked two or three more times too.
Also when is the league gonna do something about Clay Matthews. He's a tremendous pass rusher, but for as much as this league protects QBs, that dude tries to bodyslam QBs everytime he gets a chance. Then finds the need to push on Cutler's chest after that last sack. You're already one of the best pass rushers in the league. No need to give further credence to people thinking you're a roided up meathead.
Oh please. GAFB.
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LOL, jsonline can't spellcheck their own headlines
Total teem effort: Matthews leads charge on 'D'
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/169695966.html
Really? Teem: to swarm, as in the way the Packers defense played yesterday.
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I'm still routinely puzzled about all this "Jay Cutler cries" BS that people love jumping on. Why, cause he gets pissed at his offensive lineman for being worthless? Dude gets hit more than any other QB in the league and its happened for the 3rd consecutive year. Nothing is being done to stop it. That is the story of the game. If you watch Cutler escape from collapsing pockets impressively 3-4 times in one drive in the 4th quarter, you know that those 7 sacks could have easily been 10+. Did he play well? No, but I just find it amusing that non-Bears fans are so quick to put it on Cutler. He had 1 pick that was his fault, which was the terrible underthrow to Marshall. Woodson's was a boneheaded play by Bennett and the other two may or may not have been picks. Add Forte getting hurt and what do you have. No running game, no pass protection, yet you expect him to put up numbers? Its unfair.
Also when is the league gonna do something about Clay Matthews. He's a tremendous pass rusher, but for as much as this league protects QBs, that dude tries to bodyslam QBs everytime he gets a chance. Then finds the need to push on Cutler's chest after that last sack. You're already one of the best pass rushers in the league. No need to give further credence to people thinking you're a roided up meathead.
This is funny. Nothing better than listening to Bear fans after a humiliting loss to the Packers.
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To suggest that these type of questionable calls don't happen (to all teams) with the regular refs is madness. Cutler was awful, the Oline was equally bad, and the Bears got their butts whipped. It happens. Blaming the refs is the losers' lament.
There's a difference between "questionable calls" and calls that are flat-out wrong. When a player doesn't have control of the ball and it hits the ground, that's not a catch. When there are 11 men on the field and the team gets called for having 12 men on the field, that's wrong. When a player blatantly grabs the facemask of another player while making a tackle, that's a penalty. These aren't judgment calls. They're black and white. It's not like pointing out the hold and block in the back on the fake FG. Those are judgment calls. (BTW, the fake FG was an awesome call and play)
As I said before, the Bears looked awful but without a couple missed calls that led to Packer points and one that potentially took points of the board for the Bears, it obviously would have been a very different ballgame. Did the Bears deserve to win? Absolutely not. It actually reminded me of the NFC Championship Game from a couple years ago. The Bears were awful and it felt like they should have been down 30, but the Packers weren't a whole lot better and the Bears were somehow still in the game.
Also, Mathews is a beast. As long as his "trainers" stay ahead of the testing, he's going to be a tough match-up for a long time.
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There's a difference between "questionable calls" and calls that are flat-out wrong. When a player doesn't have control of the ball and it hits the ground, that's not a catch. When there are 11 men on the field and the team gets called for having 12 men on the field, that's wrong. When a player blatantly grabs the facemask of another player while making a tackle, that's a penalty. These aren't judgment calls. They're black and white. It's not like pointing out the hold and block in the back on the fake FG. Those are judgment calls. (BTW, the fake FG was an awesome call and play)
As I said before, the Bears looked awful but without a couple missed calls that led to Packer points and one that potentially took points of the board for the Bears, it obviously would have been a very different ballgame. Did the Bears deserve to win? Absolutely not. It actually reminded me of the NFC Championship Game from a couple years ago. The Bears were awful and it felt like they should have been down 30, but the Packers weren't a whole lot better and the Bears were somehow still in the game.
Also, Mathews is a beast. As long as his "trainers" stay ahead of the testing, he's going to be a tough match-up for a long time.
Pass the grapes. Wait, they're sour and taste salty.
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There's a difference between "questionable calls" and calls that are flat-out wrong. When a player doesn't have control of the ball and it hits the ground, that's not a catch. When there are 11 men on the field and the team gets called for having 12 men on the field, that's wrong. When a player blatantly grabs the facemask of another player while making a tackle, that's a penalty. These aren't judgment calls. They're black and white. It's not like pointing out the hold and block in the back on the fake FG. Those are judgment calls. (BTW, the fake FG was an awesome call and play)
As I said before, the Bears looked awful but without a couple missed calls that led to Packer points and one that potentially took points of the board for the Bears, it obviously would have been a very different ballgame. Did the Bears deserve to win? Absolutely not. It actually reminded me of the NFC Championship Game from a couple years ago. The Bears were awful and it felt like they should have been down 30, but the Packers weren't a whole lot better and the Bears were somehow still in the game.
Also, Mathews is a beast. As long as his "trainers" stay ahead of the testing, he's going to be a tough match-up for a long time.
How about the Packers "D" flat out kicked the Bears and Cutlers ass. Nothing the do with the refs.
I do not know how you can say those calls were "flat out wrong" I watched them closely on DVR. The interception was a catch there was nothing definitive that showed it even hit the ground. Certainly not enough evidence to over turn it. The 12 men on the field was the correct call, he was not off the field before the ball was snapped that was "black and white " as you say. If you don't think those calls were any different than the regular refs would make, you are not paying attention. The only thing thing you can say about the ref's is that they are much slower with replays and game management. Complaining about the refs after a loss is losers talk.
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Few key turning points in that game:
-The 12 men on the field call was bogus, there was no way there was indisuputable evidence to overturn it. Not that it cost the Bears the game, but the game was really ugly for both teams at that point, led to first points of the game
-Carimi penalty was an absolute killer. Deserved to be called, second guy always gets flagged
-Fake FG was huge. Credit the Pack for running the exact same play from a few Bears/Pack games ago (Maynard/Lyman TD, exact same play). Bears were stacked heavy on the right side of the line, in full out FG block formation. Perfect call, perfect time by the Pack.
-Cutler's pick right before the half. Led to 3 more Pack points, huge.
-Marshall's TD drop. As poor as the game was at that point, if he hangs on, it's 13-7.
Blaming Cutler for the entire Bears shortcomings is shortsighted. He didn't play great by any means. The last pick hit the ground, shouldn't have been an INT (technically speaking it is correct), and Bennett killed him on that Woodson pick (just like James Jones killed Rodgers on his INT). Offensive line wasn't great by any means, but a few of those sacks have to go to the GB secondary, clearly coverage sacks.
Bears defense was great. Rodgers typically does not have great games against the Bears, and they pressured him a lot last night and forced a couple of TO's.
Credit the Pack for playing a ton of Cover 2 last night, that really is what decided that game. Their execution was outstanding (both defenses execution was very good last night). I have not seen the Pack (under Capers) play much, if any, Cover 2 before, be interested to hear from Pack fans if they have recently.
Didn't think the officiating was great by any means, but as great a game as Matthews had, he was held about 1 in every 3 passing plays.
Congrats to the Pack, both teams 1-1, NFC West opponents coming up for both teams.
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There's a difference between "questionable calls" and calls that are flat-out wrong. When a player doesn't have control of the ball and it hits the ground, that's not a catch. When there are 11 men on the field and the team gets called for having 12 men on the field, that's wrong. When a player blatantly grabs the facemask of another player while making a tackle, that's a penalty. These aren't judgment calls. They're black and white. It's not like pointing out the hold and block in the back on the fake FG. Those are judgment calls. (BTW, the fake FG was an awesome call and play)
As I said before, the Bears looked awful but without a couple missed calls that led to Packer points and one that potentially took points of the board for the Bears, it obviously would have been a very different ballgame. Did the Bears deserve to win? Absolutely not. It actually reminded me of the NFC Championship Game from a couple years ago. The Bears were awful and it felt like they should have been down 30, but the Packers weren't a whole lot better and the Bears were somehow still in the game.
Also, Mathews is a beast. As long as his "trainers" stay ahead of the testing, he's going to be a tough match-up for a long time.
Yeah, 2 of those of those calls are black and white and you are flat-out wrong.
There was 12 men on the field, you are wrong. Black and white call.
Please show me the block in the back outside the allowed area of the line of scrimmage, you are wrong. Black and white call.
It was inconclusive whether the ball moved when it hit the ground, clearly not enough to overturn it, you are wrong.
Did he twist the facemask or was it incidental? Judgement call, could have been made.
As for the Packers, I'm really happy. They kicked the Bears' a$$ all over the field. I'd much rather see them win this way, with a strong defensive outing, than simply outscore the other team like a lot of times last year, because I know that Rodgers and the offense are going to put up their fair share of points when they start clicking.
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Few key turning points in that game:
Pretty good analysis Dish. The Bears D did a good job of keeping Rodgers off-balance a bit. With the pressure they gave him, he didn't ever get into a great rhythm. I'm not sure on the Cover 2. I don't really remember them playing it much, but they don't often give you that wide view on TV.
I do disagree with you in regards to the 12 men on the field. Watching frame by frame on DVR (didn't think NFL network did a great job with their replays there), you could see his foot was still on the field when the ball moved.
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Few key turning points in that game:
-The 12 men on the field call was bogus, there was no way there was indisuputable evidence to overturn it. Not that it cost the Bears the game, but the game was really ugly for both teams at that point, led to first points of the game
-Carimi penalty was an absolute killer. Deserved to be called, second guy always gets flagged
-Fake FG was huge. Credit the Pack for running the exact same play from a few Bears/Pack games ago (Maynard/Lyman TD, exact same play). Bears were stacked heavy on the right side of the line, in full out FG block formation. Perfect call, perfect time by the Pack.
-Cutler's pick right before the half. Led to 3 more Pack points, huge.
-Marshall's TD drop. As poor as the game was at that point, if he hangs on, it's 13-7.
Blaming Cutler for the entire Bears shortcomings is shortsighted. He didn't play great by any means. The last pick hit the ground, shouldn't have been an INT (technically speaking it is correct), and Bennett killed him on that Woodson pick (just like James Jones killed Rodgers on his INT). Offensive line wasn't great by any means, but a few of those sacks have to go to the GB secondary, clearly coverage sacks.
Bears defense was great. Rodgers typically does not have great games against the Bears, and they pressured him a lot last night and forced a couple of TO's.
Credit the Pack for playing a ton of Cover 2 last night, that really is what decided that game. Their execution was outstanding (both defenses execution was very good last night). I have not seen the Pack (under Capers) play much, if any, Cover 2 before, be interested to hear from Pack fans if they have recently.
Didn't think the officiating was great by any means, but as great a game as Matthews had, he was held about 1 in every 3 passing plays.
Congrats to the Pack, both teams 1-1, NFC West opponents coming up for both teams.
Finally a rational Bears fan. I disagree with you on the 12 man call. Also i do not think Cutler was the only reason for the loss, but he was a big reason. You can not under estimate the effect his kitten like attitude has on the team. This is supposed to be their leader, but he does not show very good leadership qualities at all. Instead of saying how great they are and then bitching at his team mates when things don't go right, how about improving your own play.
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Pretty good analysis Dish. The Bears D did a good job of keeping Rodgers off-balance a bit. With the pressure they gave him, he didn't ever get into a great rhythm. I'm not sure on the Cover 2. I don't really remember them playing it much, but they don't often give you that wide view on TV.
I do disagree with you in regards to the 12 men on the field. Watching frame by frame on DVR (didn't think NFL network did a great job with their replays there), you could see his foot was still on the field when the ball moved.
My only beef with the 12 men on the field call is the ruling on the field was 11 men. Replay rules state you have to have indisputable visual evidence to overturn the call. Just didn't seem like there was enough evidence to overturn it. If anything I give Rodgers credit for snapping it quickly and then running over to the ref to point it out.
My biggest concern for the Bears is that the Pack gave every other team in the league the gameplan to disrupt the Bears offense. If you can play cover 2, or play base and have a safety shadow Marshall all night, Bears passing game will be in trouble. Their lack of a playmaking TE really hurt them last night, Kellen Davis was really bad.
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Yeah, 2 of those of those calls are black and white and you are flat-out wrong.
There was 12 men on the field, you are wrong. Black and white call.
Please show me the block in the back outside the allowed area of the line of scrimmage, you are wrong. Black and white call.
It was inconclusive whether the ball moved when it hit the ground, clearly not enough to overturn it, you are wrong.
Did he twist the facemask or was it incidental? Judgement call, could have been made.
As for the Packers, I'm really happy. They kicked the Bears' a$$ all over the field. I'd much rather see them win this way, with a strong defensive outing, than simply outscore the other team like a lot of times last year, because I know that Rodgers and the offense are going to put up their fair share of points when they start clicking.
I believe my own eyes and the paid-to-be-unbiased announcer over you.
On the fake FG, Conte (#47) looked like he was being held and I believe it was #93 who threw the block in the back at around 10 yard line , which was incredibly pointless and very dumb on his part but it was probably a good no-call.
In the end, none of it really matters when the o-line can't block and the QB gets frustrated and starts chucking.
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My biggest concern for the Bears is that the Pack gave every other team in the league the gameplan to disrupt the Bears offense. If you can play cover 2, or play base and have a safety shadow Marshall all night, Bears passing game will be in trouble. Their lack of a playmaking TE really hurt them last night, Kellen Davis was really bad.
Good call. The key to the Cover-2 is getting pressure with the front four. The Bears' most glaring weakness is protecting the passer. It makes sense that teams are going to bracket the big play WRs and take your chances with the Bears' o-line. Oh, and Kellen Davis really is brutal. If only they had a TE with some size and athleticism like, say, Greg Olson, for example.
On a sidenote, does Tice have any quick slants in his playbook? Those tend to kill the Bears in their Cover-2.
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I believe my own eyes and the paid-to-be-unbiased announcer over you.
On the fake FG, Conte (#47) looked like he was being held and I believe it was #93 who threw the block in the back at around 10 yard line , which was incredibly pointless and very dumb on his part but it was probably a good no-call.
In the end, none of it really matters when the o-line can't block and the QB gets frustrated and starts chucking.
The packers were the better team last night, period. Just like the 49ers were the better team last Sunday, period. Why can't you just accept that. I ussually enjoy your analysis about everything MU but you are looking at last nights game through blue and orange glasses.
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Finally a rational Bears fan. I disagree with you on the 12 man call. Also i do not think Cutler was the only reason for the loss, but he was a big reason. You can not under estimate the effect his kitten like attitude has on the team. This is supposed to be their leader, but he does not show very good leadership qualities at all. Instead of saying how great they are and then bitching at his team mates when things don't go right, how about improving your own play.
Sure, I won't argue he wasn't a big reason for their loss. He underthrew Marshall on that Williams pick, he had Jeffrey as wide open as you can be in the end zone and never saw him, he made bad reads, didn't audible as much as he did against the Colts.
The only thing I find somewhat ironic is one of the other QB's in the league known for chewing out his offensive teammates is Rodgers. I'm not talking just about the Jones play last night, but within the league he too can/will speak his mind. Not as often as Cutler might, or as often as the cameras catch it.
Cutler is who he is, he's overly confident, not afraid to speak his mind. He's frustrated from getting knocked on his butt, he (to a fault) trusts his arm strength to be able to make any throw he thinks he can. It's his offense (for better or worse). Capers is his kryptonite, the guy calls great game plans against Cutler and his frustration boiled over.
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Few key turning points in that game:
-The 12 men on the field call was bogus, there was no way there was indisuputable evidence to overturn it. Not that it cost the Bears the game, but the game was really ugly for both teams at that point, led to first points of the game
-Carimi penalty was an absolute killer. Deserved to be called, second guy always gets flagged
-Fake FG was huge. Credit the Pack for running the exact same play from a few Bears/Pack games ago (Maynard/Lyman TD, exact same play). Bears were stacked heavy on the right side of the line, in full out FG block formation. Perfect call, perfect time by the Pack.
-Cutler's pick right before the half. Led to 3 more Pack points, huge.
-Marshall's TD drop. As poor as the game was at that point, if he hangs on, it's 13-7.
Blaming Cutler for the entire Bears shortcomings is shortsighted. He didn't play great by any means. The last pick hit the ground, shouldn't have been an INT (technically speaking it is correct), and Bennett killed him on that Woodson pick (just like James Jones killed Rodgers on his INT). Offensive line wasn't great by any means, but a few of those sacks have to go to the GB secondary, clearly coverage sacks.
Bears defense was great. Rodgers typically does not have great games against the Bears, and they pressured him a lot last night and forced a couple of TO's.
Credit the Pack for playing a ton of Cover 2 last night, that really is what decided that game. Their execution was outstanding (both defenses execution was very good last night). I have not seen the Pack (under Capers) play much, if any, Cover 2 before, be interested to hear from Pack fans if they have recently.
Didn't think the officiating was great by any means, but as great a game as Matthews had, he was held about 1 in every 3 passing plays.
Congrats to the Pack, both teams 1-1, NFC West opponents coming up for both teams.
Great post! (And not just because of the Dustin Lyman reference)
The biggest issue I had with the Carimi penalty was that the ref (#98), as you can see in the replay, was looking RIGHT AT the shoving the entire time. Unless he had his eyes closed, there's no way he missed Hawk's initial shove.
Question: Why is a play like that not reviewable? I mean, it's the type of thing they look at in basketball and the refs obviously know the adage of "hit first then don't hit back." The Bears have benefitted many a-time so I'm not saying this because of this specific incident. It just seems like such a simple fix for something that probably happens at least once a week in the NFL.
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Good call. The key to the Cover-2 is getting pressure with the front four. The Bears' most glaring weakness is protecting the passer. It makes sense that teams are going to bracket the big play WRs and take your chances with the Bears' o-line. Oh, and Kellen Davis really is brutal. If only they had a TE with some size and athleticism like, say, Greg Olson, for example.
On a sidenote, does Tice have any quick slants in his playbook? Those tend to kill the Bears in their Cover-2.
What's funny is they ran a bunch of slants against the Colts last week.
It's easy to play armchair QB, but what's frustrating is they didn't run any slants (that I can recall), only ran one or two pick plays, never made an effort to establish the run early, never threw a screen. When the Packers had success passing, it was Nelson going across the middle, or Driver on his TD doing the same thing. Perfect calls to attack the Cover 2. Also, that Cobb run (out of the H Back set) was outstanding. Why the Bears can't run something like that for Hester is beyond me.
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The packers were the better team last night, period. Just like the 49ers were the better team last Sunday, period. Why can't you just accept that. I ussually enjoy your analysis about everything MU but you are looking at last nights game through blue and orange glasses.
I never said that the Packers weren't the better team. They obviously were. I said that the Bears were awful, the Packers weren't a whole lot better (though still better) and there were some potentially game/momentum-changing calls that went in GB's favor.
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Few key turning points in that game:
-The 12 men on the field call was bogus, there was no way there was indisuputable evidence to overturn it. Not that it cost the Bears the game, but the game was really ugly for both teams at that point, led to first points of the game
-Carimi penalty was an absolute killer. Deserved to be called, second guy always gets flagged
-Fake FG was huge. Credit the Pack for running the exact same play from a few Bears/Pack games ago (Maynard/Lyman TD, exact same play). Bears were stacked heavy on the right side of the line, in full out FG block formation. Perfect call, perfect time by the Pack.
-Cutler's pick right before the half. Led to 3 more Pack points, huge.
-Marshall's TD drop. As poor as the game was at that point, if he hangs on, it's 13-7.
Blaming Cutler for the entire Bears shortcomings is shortsighted. He didn't play great by any means. The last pick hit the ground, shouldn't have been an INT (technically speaking it is correct), and Bennett killed him on that Woodson pick (just like James Jones killed Rodgers on his INT). Offensive line wasn't great by any means, but a few of those sacks have to go to the GB secondary, clearly coverage sacks.
Bears defense was great. Rodgers typically does not have great games against the Bears, and they pressured him a lot last night and forced a couple of TO's.
Credit the Pack for playing a ton of Cover 2 last night, that really is what decided that game. Their execution was outstanding (both defenses execution was very good last night). I have not seen the Pack (under Capers) play much, if any, Cover 2 before, be interested to hear from Pack fans if they have recently.
Didn't think the officiating was great by any means, but as great a game as Matthews had, he was held about 1 in every 3 passing plays.
Congrats to the Pack, both teams 1-1, NFC West opponents coming up for both teams.
Great summary Dish. You are level headed about this kind of stuff and it is appreciated.
But one question...were the Packers playing a cover-2? They had two safeties high, but I don't think it was a zone defense...and isn't the cover-2 only a zone?
That style might be hard for the Packers to replicate because I am not sure they are going to run into offensive lines as bad as the Bears' very much. Packers got great pressure without blitzing.
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What's funny is they ran a bunch of slants against the Colts last week.
It's easy to play armchair QB, but what's frustrating is they didn't run any slants (that I can recall), only ran one or two pick plays, never made an effort to establish the run early, never threw a screen. When the Packers had success passing, it was Nelson going across the middle, or Driver on his TD doing the same thing. Perfect calls to attack the Cover 2. Also, that Cobb run (out of the H Back set) was outstanding. Why the Bears can't run something like that for Hester is beyond me.
I believe they did throw one screen and Hawk sniffed it out. Or maybe that was just a dump-off. I can't remember exactly. Either way, I agree with your frustrations.
The Bears looked like they were trying to get into the middle of the zone with Kellen Davis but he's slow and bad and they were sending him more vertical right into the safeties than across into the open areas.
I said the exact same thing about Hester after the Cobb run.
So goes the life of a Bears fan... ;)
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Sure, I won't argue he wasn't a big reason for their loss. He underthrew Marshall on that Williams pick, he had Jeffrey as wide open as you can be in the end zone and never saw him, he made bad reads, didn't audible as much as he did against the Colts.
The only thing I find somewhat ironic is one of the other QB's in the league known for chewing out his offensive teammates is Rodgers. I'm not talking just about the Jones play last night, but within the league he too can/will speak his mind. Not as often as Cutler might, or as often as the cameras catch it.
Cutler is who he is, he's overly confident, not afraid to speak his mind. He's frustrated from getting knocked on his butt, he (to a fault) trusts his arm strength to be able to make any throw he thinks he can. It's his offense (for better or worse). Capers is his kryptonite, the guy calls great game plans against Cutler and his frustration boiled over.
I knew the Rodgers comparison was coming. The chewing out Rodgers does is different. It is not accompanied by the poutty body language, arrogant look on his face or forcing plays when he is frustrated that Cutler does/has.There is a difference between being competitive and a leader and being a whiney bitch.
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What's funny is they ran a bunch of slants against the Colts last week.
It's easy to play armchair QB, but what's frustrating is they didn't run any slants (that I can recall), only ran one or two pick plays, never made an effort to establish the run early, never threw a screen. When the Packers had success passing, it was Nelson going across the middle, or Driver on his TD doing the same thing. Perfect calls to attack the Cover 2. Also, that Cobb run (out of the H Back set) was outstanding. Why the Bears can't run something like that for Hester is beyond me.
Well, I don't think you are going to get a great deal of innovation out of Mike Tice. I like the guy, but the first two weeks have been pretty vanilla. It just really worked last week because the Colts are terrible.
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I knew the Rodgers comparison was coming. The chewing out Rodgers does is different. It is not accompanied by the poutty body language, arrogant look on his face or forcing plays when he is frustrated that Cutler does/has.There is a difference between being competitive and a leader and being a whiney bitch.
The biggest difference being the allegiance of the fan making the comparison.
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The biggest difference being the allegiance of the fan making the comparison.
Rodgers won a Super Bowl so he gets a pass.
If GB lost the SB to Pittsburgh (or sooner in the Playoffs) and then followed it up with a 15-1 season and one-and-done in the playoffs, he'd be in the Romo/Cutler category of QBs who can't get it done when it matters most.
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Cutler pees sitting down. He has run through offensive coordinators like I run through toothpicks after a pulled pork and corn on the cob meal. Green Bay didn't give away the playbook on how to defend him, it is well known. Pressure him and the happy feet return with the poor mechanics throwing flatfooted or off his backfoot. The three times the Bears ran a screen against the blitz, and the pass was deflected because of his bad mechanics. Three of his four picks were the same, with the fourth being on Bennett for not coming back to the ball. The Marshall drop could have been caught but the thrown arc of the pass was not ideal either.
Last year it was because Martz's offense was too slow to develop with the Bears' crappy o-line (which they did nothing to improve this offseason). With his guy Bates directing the offense now, what is Cutler's excuse? Cutler simply holds the ball way too long and then makes bad decisions with bad mechanics instead of throwing the ball away. He had a lot of time to throw last night on many of the sacks/hurries. In Denver, they rolled him out more as he is not a classic drop-back passer. Sick of his attitude during and after the games. And I am a Bears fan.
The replacement refs suck. Prolonged the game 30 extra minutes reviewing, trying to explain, and discussing basic plays on both sides. Love that McCarthy told them to play on during that last Bears' play where there was a pick/fourth down review.
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Great summary Dish. You are level headed about this kind of stuff and it is appreciated.
But one question...were the Packers playing a cover-2? They had two safeties high, but I don't think it was a zone defense...and isn't the cover-2 only a zone?
That style might be hard for the Packers to replicate because I am not sure they are going to run into offensive lines as bad as the Bears' very much. Packers got great pressure without blitzing.
It's a good question, it was more Cover 2 than Tampa 2, which the Bears play (where the safeties are much deeper). At least that's what I thought. Correct that Cover 2/Tampa 2 is zone coverage, I suppose it was more of a hybrid, because the corners were in man, but not pressing (because they knew they weren't going to get beat deep with the safety help).
It was brilliant by Capers though. He knew he could get pressure without blitzing (as you mentioned). When they did blitz, it worked too. I'm a Bears fan, but a football fan too, and have to respect that game plan on defense last night. As much as the Pack D has taken heat lately, great game plan and execution last night.
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The biggest difference being the allegiance of the fan making the comparison.
Obviously, but I bet if you asked 100 non packer or bear fans who is the better leader, 90% or more would pick Rodgers over Cutler.
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The biggest difference being the allegiance of the fan making the comparison.
This is a great point. Cutler has a reputation among fans, for better or for worse, and really it seems like nothing he's gonna do short of winning a SB is gonna change that. He gets sacked more than anyone in the league, pops back up, finally gets hurt and is called a quitter. He gets on his line for blowing blocks and disrupting drives and he's called a crapty leader. He went over to Marshall as he was sitting alone after blowing the TD catch to tell him to chin up and SC makes some dumb comment like "this is the leader they need". Its all a frame of reference.
Obviously, but I bet if you asked 100 non packer or bear fans who is the better leader, 90% or more would pick Rodgers over Cutler.
But what does that prove? Rodgers is the best QB in the league. I have no problem admitting that. Just because he's not Rodgers doesn't mean he's a terrible leader and he can't do some of the same things Rodgers does to motivate his team.
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Rodgers won a Super Bowl so he gets a pass.
If GB lost the SB to Pittsburgh (or sooner in the Playoffs) and then followed it up with a 15-1 season and one-and-done in the playoffs, he'd be in the Romo/Cutler category of QBs who can't get it done when it matters most.
But thats the point isn't it. If my aunt had nads she would be my uncle. Rodgers did win the super bowl partly because of his play and leadership, Romo/Cutler didn't. If joe Montana didn't win four Super bowls he wouldn't be considered one of the greatest QBs ever, the point is he did and he is.
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The replacement refs suck. Prolonged the game 30 extra minutes reviewing, trying to explain, and discussing basic plays on both sides. Love that McCarthy told them to play on during that last Bears' play where there was a pick/fourth down review.
My favorite point was when the ref was explaining a penalty...started to lose his thought...and then simply stopped talking mid-sentence and moved on.
I'll say this. They were bad. But at least they are equally bad.
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My favorite point was when the ref was explaining a penalty...started to lose his thought...and then simply stopped talking mid-sentence and moved on.
I'll say this. They were bad. But at least they are equally bad.
I caught that too, and I started laughing.
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My favorite point was when the ref was explaining a penalty...started to lose his thought...and then simply stopped talking mid-sentence and moved on.
I'll say this. They were bad. But at least they are equally bad.
"Five yard penalty. First down! (pause) No, not first down. It's..." (turns off mic, walks away)
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But thats the point isn't it. If my aunt had nads she would be my uncle. Rodgers did win the super bowl partly because of his play and leadership, Romo/Cutler didn't. If joe Montana didn't win four Super bowls he wouldn't be considered one of the greatest QBs ever, the point is he did and he is.
My point is that if you win a championship, when you yell and scream and carry on, people call it leadership. If you don't win a championship, when you yell and scream and carry on and people call you a poor leader.
How do you think was a better leader: Dan Marino or Brad Johnson? Dan Fouts or Trent Dilfer?
Winning cures all.
ADDITION: For the record, I do NOT think that Cutler is a great leader but I also don't think he's as unlikable a guy as he can be portrayed. In all honesty, I think he's an extreme introvert with very poor emotional intelligence.
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My point is that if you win a championship, when you yell and scream and carry on, people call it leadership. If you don't win a championship, when you yell and scream and carry on and people call you a poor leader.
A supportive article on your POV.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8377155/we-seem-keep-redefining-jay-cutler-every-four-quarters
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But what does that prove? Rodgers is the best QB in the league. I have no problem admitting that. Just because he's not Rodgers doesn't mean he's a terrible leader and he can't do some of the same things Rodgers does to motivate his team.
It proves that if you took away the point of view based on the allegiance of the teams, then Rodgers would be considered the better leader and (less whiney I might add). i never said anything about best QB in the league, you did. I never made the jump that cutler is less of a leader because he is not as good of a quarterback.
Blackheart said it best, Cutlers sits down to Pee, says it all.
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My point is that if you win a championship, when you yell and scream and carry on, people call it leadership. If you don't win a championship, when you yell and scream and carry on and people call you a poor leader.
How do you think was a better leader: Dan Marino or Brad Johnson? Dan Fouts or Trent Dilfer?
Winning cures all.
Maybe, you don't watch enough Packer games to know, but Rodgers rarely yells and screams and carrys on, he is one of the most composed qbs in the league. Cutler on the other hand...
But, yes I get the point
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Really? Teem: to swarm, as in the way the Packers defense played yesterday.
LOL, it's now been corrected to T-E-A-M
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LOL, it's now been corrected to T-E-A-M
JSOnline sent out a tweet saying that it was a play on words, but apparently since most people didn't get it, they changed it.
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Maybe, you don't watch enough Packer games to know, but Rodgers rarely yells and screams and carrys on, he is one of the most composed qbs in the league. Cutler on the other hand...
But, yes I get the point
This is anti-Rodgers or anything, but Rodgers is known throughout the league to yell/scream at teammates quite frequently.
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This is anti-Rodgers or anything, but Rodgers is known throughout the league to yell/scream at teammates quite frequently.
Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are also known to show leadership via screaming at teammates.
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This is anti-Rodgers or anything, but Rodgers is known throughout the league to yell/scream at teammates quite frequently.
By who?
I've watched every minute the guy has played in the NFL, very rarely does he chew a guy out like last night.
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This is anti-Rodgers or anything, but Rodgers is known throughout the league to yell/scream at teammates quite frequently.
Yeah, but in the showers... not on the field.
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This is anti-Rodgers or anything, but Rodgers is known throughout the league to yell/scream at teammates quite frequently.
Are you part of the league? Do you have documentation that says that? Not being an ass, I am legitimately asking. I have never heard that he is known "throughout the league" as yelling/sceraming at his players. Did he do it last night, yes, has he done it in the past, yes but I wouldn't consider him as "known throughout the league" as a screamer.
I watch every packer game, and I rarely see him screaming at his players especially not offensive line men.
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Are you part of the league? Do you have documentation that says that? Not being an ass, I am legitimately asking. I have never heard that he is known "throughout the league" as yelling/sceraming at his players. Did he do it last night, yes, has he done it in the past, yes but I wouldn't consider him as "known throughout the league" as a screamer.
I watch every packer game, and I rarely see him screaming at his players especially not offensive line men.
I've worked in the league, know people in the league. I'm about 10 years removed though, but still have some contacts who have decent info.
It's not anti-Rodgers by any means. Does he do it to the degree (and publicly) that Cutler does it? No. Does he do it? Yeah, probably more often than is publicized. Sometimes with Rodgers it's not so much as yelling/screaming as it is a look he gives teammates. It doesn't mean he's a bad guy/teammate (he's not). Brady/Manning are known for doing it as well, it's not a negative as it is for Cutler, and you don't see Cutler smile/laughing as much, it's not just his demeanor.
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By who?
I've watched every minute the guy has played in the NFL, very rarely does he chew a guy out like last night.
This is what I am saying. I rarely see it nor have i heard people say that before
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I've worked in the league, know people in the league. I'm about 10 years removed though, but still have some contacts who have decent info.
It's not anti-Rodgers by any means. Does he do it to the degree (and publicly) that Cutler does it? No. Does he do it? Yeah, probably more often than is publicized. Sometimes with Rodgers it's not so much as yelling/screaming as it is a look he gives teammates. It doesn't mean he's a bad guy/teammate (he's not). Brady/Manning are known for doing it as well, it's not a negative as it is for Cutler, and you don't see Cutler smile/laughing as much, it's not just his demeanor.
I have heard that he (rodgers) is crazy competitive, so maybe that is part of what people mean by that. I have seen the look you are talking about.
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Rodgers did exhibit poor body language/looks more so than screaming earlier in his starting career but in the last few years I really haven't seen that
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http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8377155/we-seem-keep-redefining-jay-cutler-every-four-quarters
Seems to have a bearing of sorts on the conversation
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Are you part of the league? Do you have documentation that says that? Not being an ass, I am legitimately asking. I have never heard that he is known "throughout the league" as yelling/sceraming at his players. Did he do it last night, yes, has he done it in the past, yes but I wouldn't consider him as "known throughout the league" as a screamer.
I watch every packer game, and I rarely see him screaming at his players especially not offensive line men.
Dish is right, part of Rodgers brilliance is his media savvy. Rodgers' gets in teammates faces just as much as Cutler but Rodgers also doesn't put a puss on, on the sideline, plus he does little things like the photobombs that media idiots types find endearing. Don't get me wrong I think Cutler is a big harry wet cat, but the lazy media and Packer fans way overblow it.
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I have heard that he (rodgers) is crazy competitive, so maybe that is part of what people mean by that. I have seen the look you are talking about.
He's the best QB in football, he runs such a precise offense, it's almost a machine. Last night I don't blame Rodgers for yelling at Jones, it was a terrible decision by Jones on stopping his route, that INT can't be on Rodgers. When you're as good and competitive as Rodgers (or Brady, etc.), you're going to get frustrated at times.
QB is the most interesting position in sports. As physically great as one can be, you still rely on 10 other moving pieces/parts to flow in rhythm as one. Some of the throws last night by both Rodgers and Cutler were remarkable if you think about it. Finley had a dead on the money throw go through his hands, Jones had arguably a tough catch to make in the end zone, probably should have had it, Cutler had a split second to perfectly hit Marshall in the end zone away from the safety, and he did, none of them were caught though. Cutler's just a pissy guy, he just is. Even if he wasn't an NFL QB, he'd be a pissy guy. It gets magnified when he's not playing well, and he takes out his mistakes on others (not saying it's right). Rodgers by all accounts is a great guy, markets himself well off the field, plays his tail off, and wins.
FWIW, it's not shocking to me that Cutler went after Webb. From what I've heard about Webb off the field, he's not exactly putting time/effort in to things.
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He's the best QB in football, he runs such a precise offense, it's almost a machine. Last night I don't blame Rodgers for yelling at Jones, it was a terrible decision by Jones on stopping his route, that INT can't be on Rodgers. When you're as good and competitive as Rodgers (or Brady, etc.), you're going to get frustrated at times.
QB is the most interesting position in sports. As physically great as one can be, you still rely on 10 other moving pieces/parts to flow in rhythm as one. Some of the throws last night by both Rodgers and Cutler were remarkable if you think about it. Finley had a dead on the money throw go through his hands, Jones had arguably a tough catch to make in the end zone, probably should have had it, Cutler had a split second to perfectly hit Marshall in the end zone away from the safety, and he did, none of them were caught though. Cutler's just a pissy guy, he just is. Even if he wasn't an NFL QB, he'd be a pissy guy. It gets magnified when he's not playing well, and he takes out his mistakes on others (not saying it's right). Rodgers by all accounts is a great guy, markets himself well off the field, plays his tail off, and wins.
FWIW, it's not shocking to me that Cutler went after Webb. From what I've heard about Webb off the field, he's not exactly putting time/effort in to things.
The major difference between QBs like Rodgers/Manning/Brady and Cutler (from a temper standpoint) is that the first group of guys yells at the teammate, regroups and goes back onto the field calm and focused. Cutler seems to hold on to that frustration, have the mindset of "F you all! I'm getting 14 points with this pass!" and fires a rocket into double coverage. It may be a matter of maturity or overconfidence or just personality type, but until Cutler is able to calm down and get his mindset right, he's going to continue to have ugly games like he did last night.
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FWIW, it's not shocking to me that Cutler went after Webb. From what I've heard about Webb off the field, he's not exactly putting time/effort in to things.
Yeah, I don't think that Webb gets it. No matter the team, offensive linemen have a strict code in how they deal with the media, promote themselves, etc. Webb seems to think he's special.
Just makes you think with how poorly Webb performed, how bad is Chris Williams? The fact that Williams can't beat out Webb is frankly pitiful and sad. In my mind, maybe the top example of why Jerry Angelo needed to go.
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The major difference between QBs like Rodgers/Manning/Brady and Cutler (from a temper standpoint) is that the first group of guys yells at the teammate, regroups and goes back onto the field calm and focused. Cutler seems to hold on to that frustration, have the mindset of "F you all! I'm getting 14 points with this pass!" and fires a rocket into double coverage. It may be a matter of maturity or overconfidence or just personality type, but until Cutler is able to calm down and get his mindset right, he's going to continue to have ugly games like he did last night.
You nailed it. I would compare him to Carlos Zambrano.
They both need to have shorter memories because they are both so close to being great.
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You nailed it. I would compare him to Carlos Zambrano.
They both need to have shorter memories because they are both so close to being great.
Hards,
I was all set to give you grief for calling Zambrano "close to being great" - until I looked up his numbers. You're right - a bigger brain and a little less testosterone may have spelled greatness for Carlos.
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I hate to say it, but Urlacher may need to get off the field. He is such a liability now with that bum knee... can no longer get to the sidelines to cut off opponents. All he is good for is runs up the middle, QB spy, and a small circumfrence of zone.
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And yes, Jay Cutler is an idiot. And a douchebag. He's got great talent but doens't know how to play QB in this league.
I mean, he married (or is planning on marrying) that dumb girl from Laguna Beach. Who does that?
Sucks about Forte, but I really like Michael Bush. He filled in admirably last year in Oakland and should do the same if Tice can learn how to use him correctly.
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If anybody needs Packer tickets let me know...
(Green Bay package, section 122, Row 6, seats 22, 23) Seats are on the end in the aisle.
Gracias.
please check/answer your PM's
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The major difference between QBs like Rodgers/Manning/Brady and Cutler (from a temper standpoint) is that the first group of guys yells at the teammate, regroups and goes back onto the field calm and focused. Cutler seems to hold on to that frustration, have the mindset of "F you all! I'm getting 14 points with this pass!" and fires a rocket into double coverage. It may be a matter of maturity or overconfidence or just personality type, but until Cutler is able to calm down and get his mindset right, he's going to continue to have ugly games like he did last night.
Winning cures all. Having said that, if Favre never won any super bowls (especially the early one), isn't this an accurate description of him?
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Winning cures all. Having said that, if Favre never won any super bowls (especially the early one), isn't this an accurate description of him?
Very, very close. The only difference is that Favre was the fun-loving gunslinger and Cutler is the pouty-faced gunslinger.
BTW, "the early one" is also "the only one." ;)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9Ke3uFP8w
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9Ke3uFP8w
Cutler said that the Packers wouldn't be able to play press man against the Bears' big WRs. The Packers' didn't play press man. Technically, Cutler was right ;)
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With the Vikings favorites and Detroit dogs this weekend, the consensus is........
MINNESOTA VIKINGS will be alone at the top of the NFC North on Sunday! SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!
Tonight, both teams looked somewhere between bad and ordinary.
Lol. The COLTS? Jeeze. Now that the Queens are done playing the 2 worst teams (besides themselves) in the NFL, have fun ending the season on a 15 game losing streak.
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Lol. The COLTS? Jeeze. Now that the Queens are done playing the 2 worst teams (besides themselves) in the NFL, have fun ending the season on a 15 game losing streak.
Move that crapty franchise to LA already.
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when the whole referee strike thing started, I honestly thought that we wouldn't be able to tell a difference. I thought finding 16 NFL refereeing crews would prove those 80 or so fellows to be totally fungible. holy balls was I wrong. After having the Bal-Phi game on, and now the Pit-NYJ game, I can without exaggeration say that the replacement referees are beginning to interfere with my enjoyment of the game.
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Move that crapty franchise to LA already.
The Lakers did, and look how it turned out for them! Lol
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Very, very close. The only difference is that Favre was the fun-loving gunslinger and Cutler is the pouty-faced gunslinger.
BTW, "the early one" is also "the only one." ;)
Really?? Should that have been in teal? You are comparing a hall of fame, Top 5 QB of all time to Jay freaking Cutler. Look at how many stats Favre leads in, Cutler would be luckey to get half of those numbers. Keep dreaming bear fans, maybe some day you too will have a mvp quarterback.
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Really?? Should that have been in teal? You are comparing a hall of fame, Top 5 QB of all time to Jay freaking Cutler. Look at how many stats Favre leads in, Cutler would be luckey to get half of those numbers. Keep dreaming bear fans, maybe some day you too will have a mvp quarterback.
We were referring to this description, specifically the bolded part: The major difference between QBs like Rodgers/Manning/Brady and Cutler (from a temper standpoint) is that the first group of guys yells at the teammate, regroups and goes back onto the field calm and focused. Cutler seems to hold on to that frustration, have the mindset of "F you all! I'm getting 14 points with this pass!" and fires a rocket into double coverage.
You don't think that sounds like Favre?
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We were referring to this description, specifically the bolded part: The major difference between QBs like Rodgers/Manning/Brady and Cutler (from a temper standpoint) is that the first group of guys yells at the teammate, regroups and goes back onto the field calm and focused. Cutler seems to hold on to that frustration, have the mindset of "F you all! I'm getting 14 points with this pass!" and fires a rocket into double coverage.
You don't think that sounds like Favre?
No not at all. Favre always fired into double coverage, took chances, it is part of what made him great and also caused a lot of interceptions. He didn't force the issue because he was frustrated. He may have tried to do to much to help his team win when his team was down, but not out of frustration, but out of wanting to win.
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No not at all. Favre always fired into double coverage, took chances, it is part of what made him great and also caused a lot of interceptions. He didn't force the issue because he was frustrated. He may have tried to do to much to help his team win when his team was down, but not out of frustration, but out of wanting to win.
Believe that if you so choose.
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I think Culter is a good player, but at this point, he is probably more like Jeff George than Brett Favre.
They are all moody, strong willed, strong armed QB's.
The difference is that Favre was operating on an uber-elite level for a good portion of his career. The other guys, not so much.
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I think Culter is a good player, but at this point, he is probably more like Jeff George than Brett Favre.
They are all moody, strong willed, strong armed QB's.
The difference is that Favre was operating on an uber-elite level for a good portion of his career. The other guys, not so much.
As much as I don't want that to be true, the Cutler-George comparison seems pretty accurate. George had a significantly better career than most people give him credit for but he also let his head get in the way of his God-given talents.
For the record, I did not intend to compare Cutler with Favre as an overall QB. I was simply responding to a post that compared Cutler with Favre in terms of their frustrations and trying to "get it all back" with one throw. Maybe it's immaturity or maybe it's an impassioned desire to win but whatever the case, all 3 QBs mentioned above have/had a tendency to make horrible decisions with the football from time to time.
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As much as I don't want that to be true, the Cutler-George comparison seems pretty accurate. George had a significantly better career than most people give him credit for but he also let his head get in the way of his God-given talents.
For the record, I did not intend to compare Cutler with Favre as an overall QB. I was simply responding to a post that compared Cutler with Favre in terms of their frustrations and trying to "get it all back" with one throw. Maybe it's immaturity or maybe it's an impassioned desire to win but whatever the case, all 3 QBs mentioned above have/had a tendency to make horrible decisions with the football from time to time.
Their are some similarities, no doubt.
Guys seemed to like Brett better (especially early in his career), but that might be because he was so good. Hard to hate a guy when he is winning MVPs. Plus, Brett's desire to win was infectious. He could rally guys around him. I don't know if Jay has that. Maybe he does. I don't know.
Cutler would be infinitely more "likable" if he wins... but for whatever reason, he has some AJ Pierzinski in him. He's hard to like unless you are winning a lot of games, and even then, you don't want your locker next to him.
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Their are some similarities, no doubt.
Guys seemed to like Brett better (especially early in his career), but that might be because he was so good. Hard to hate a guy when he is winning MVPs. Plus, Brett's desire to win was infectious. He could rally guys around him. I don't know if Jay has that. Maybe he does. I don't know.
Cutler would be infinitely more "likable" if he wins... but for whatever reason, he has some AJ Pierzinski in him. He's hard to like unless you are winning a lot of games, and even then, you don't want your locker next to him.
I feel like I just had an intervention and realized that my favorite team's franchise QB is a mix of Jeff George, AJ Pierzynski and Brett Favre (NY Jets version). I need to go lay down.
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I feel like I just had an intervention and realized that my favorite team's franchise QB is a mix of Jeff George, AJ Pierzynski and Brett Favre (NY Jets version). I need to go lay down.
Take 2 superbowl wins and call me in 5 years.
You'll feel fine.
Winning cures everything. McMahon was an a-hole, but everybody loves him because he won.
Cutler's body language, facial expressions and general demeanor are off putting. But, if/when he wins, it will be seen as competitiveness and toughness. When he loses, it will be seen as selfishness and being conceited.
You have to love sports hyperbole, especially in football.
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Take 2 superbowl wins and call me in 5 years.
You'll feel fine.
Winning cures everything. McMahon was an a-hole, but everybody loves him because he won.
Cutler's body language, facial expressions and general demeanor are off putting. But, if/when he wins, it will be seen as competitiveness and toughness. When he loses, it will be seen as selfishness and being conceited.
You have to love sports hyperbole, especially in football.
This is a good point. Especially the last point. When Favre was winning, it was his child-like love for the game and when he was losing he was reckless and irrational with the ball.
The difference I see with George and Cutler is that George was an pretty boy to everyone. Short of bitching at offensive linemen, he's well-liked and protected in the media by his teammates. Most people that rip on Cutler as an pretty boy or as douchebag have no real examples short of him pouting or bringing up the tired "he's a quitter" argument. Jeff George flipped off his own fans and publicly got into it with his coach.
Do I wish Cutler was friendlier with the media? Yeah, it would save alot of unnecessary talking points and negative attention towards the Bears, merited or not. But do I think none of this would be an issue if they had won on Thursday night? Absolutely.
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Believe that if you so choose.
The difference is that Favre would pop as many pain-killers as possible to get back on the field in his prime. I don't blame Cutler for not playing in the NFC game because his knee injury was to a degree where it wasn't playable. That said, Favre would've played when he shouldn't have instead of pouting on the sideline. He is also at a total different level skill wise. His arm strength allowed him to complete a lot more passes in tight coverage. He won 3 MVPs for a reason.
It's like comparing a young race car driver who gets in a lot of crashes to Dale Sr while completely ignoring the obvious skill difference and the many reasons that made them a God in their sport.
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Just curious but say the Bears win the Super Bowl with a healthy Forte and strong defense, would people think Cutler changed or was a team leader? Personally, I would say he was a product of a great team but then again he would have a ring.
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Just curious but say the Bears win the Super Bowl with a healthy Forte and strong defense, would people think Cutler changed or was a team leader? Personally, I would say he was a product of a great team but then again he would have a ring.
If the Bears win a super bowl with Jay, there will be local/national stories about his maturation as a QB and as a person.
That's just the way it works.
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Just curious but say the Bears win the Super Bowl with a healthy Forte and strong defense, would people think Cutler changed or was a team leader? Personally, I would say he was a product of a great team but then again he would have a ring.
If they Bears win the Super Bowl, it won't be primarily because of their defense this time.
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If the Bears win a super bowl with Jay, there will be local/national stories about his maturation as a QB and as a person.
That's just the way it works.
There were already those stories last season when they were one of the best teams in the NFC...and even after Week 1.
The NFL is very fickle. After Week 1, the toasts of the NFL were Cutler, Flacco, Peyton and Sanchez. After Week 2, those guys are getting ripped.
In all honesty, the Packers (especially offensively) weren't a whole lot more impressive against the Bears than they were against SF. The difference is that the 49ers are better than the Bears and had a much, much better gameplan. The Packers lost against SF so they looked terrible. They beat the Bears so they're dominant.
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There were already those stories last season when they were one of the best teams in the NFC...and even after Week 1.
The NFL is very fickle. After Week 1, the toasts of the NFL were Cutler, Flacco, Peyton and Sanchez. After Week 2, those guys are getting ripped.
In all honesty, the Packers (especially offensively) weren't a whole lot more impressive against the Bears than they were against SF. The difference is that the 49ers are better than the Bears and had a much, much better gameplan. The Packers lost against SF so they looked terrible. They beat the Bears so they're dominant.
Also, Brady is washed up this week because the Patriots lost to the Cardinals in Foxboro.
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There were already those stories last season when they were one of the best teams in the NFC...and even after Week 1.
The NFL is very fickle. After Week 1, the toasts of the NFL were Cutler, Flacco, Peyton and Sanchez. After Week 2, those guys are getting ripped.
In all honesty, the Packers (especially offensively) weren't a whole lot more impressive against the Bears than they were against SF. The difference is that the 49ers are better than the Bears and had a much, much better gameplan. The Packers lost against SF so they looked terrible. They beat the Bears so they're dominant.
The nfl is like that more than any other sport. Part of the reason is it is so heavily covered by the media and analysts. I have gotten to the point where I do not watch pregame shows anymore. Never take too much or too little out any particular game.
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The nfl is like that more than any other sport. Part of the reason is it is so heavily covered by the media and analysts. I have gotten to the point where I do not watch pregame shows anymore. Never take too much or too little out any particular game.
Also, since there are only 16 regular season games per year there is a lot less action to judge.
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Also, since there are only 16 regular season games per year there is a lot less action to judge.
Exactly, plus there are sooo many analysts trying to make a name for themselves, so they often go over the top.
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Also, since there are only 16 regular season games per year there is a lot less action to judge.
And there's a week between games. Unlike other sports where you come back and play the next day or 2 days later, there are typically 6 full days to breakdown what went right/wrong from the previous week. With 24-hour sports channels and sports radio, that's a lot of airtime to fill.
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There were already those stories last season when they were one of the best teams in the NFC...and even after Week 1.
The NFL is very fickle. After Week 1, the toasts of the NFL were Cutler, Flacco, Peyton and Sanchez. After Week 2, those guys are getting ripped.
In all honesty, the Packers (especially offensively) weren't a whole lot more impressive against the Bears than they were against SF. The difference is that the 49ers are better than the Bears and had a much, much better gameplan. The Packers lost against SF so they looked terrible. They beat the Bears so they're dominant.
Here's another one:
If the Steelers go back to the Superbowl, there will be "Big Ben maturation stories". I have no idea if he has actually matured, but somehow winning football games sets up a narrative for him to be a better person and some sort of redemption.
If he loses a bunch of games and is out of the NFL in 2013, most will consider him a scumbag forever.
Winning games = redemption/personal comeback.
The reality is that Big Ben might always be a scumbag, or might be an awesome person. Winning/losing won't have anything to do with that... but it will be written as such.
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Erp.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/bears-defender-d-j-moore-goes-off-jay-201518658--nfl.html
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Erp.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/bears-defender-d-j-moore-goes-off-jay-201518658--nfl.html
Yawn.
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Yawn.
Ok, this one is funnier.
http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2012/09/a-very-jay-cutler-encounter-with-jay-cutler.html
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Ok, this one is funnier.
http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2012/09/a-very-jay-cutler-encounter-with-jay-cutler.html
Now THAT is a newsworthy Jay Cutler story.
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Ok, this one is funnier.
http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2012/09/a-very-jay-cutler-encounter-with-jay-cutler.html
Men's Public Restroom* Rule #1: Only engage another man in conversation if a) you know each other and b) you're doing the same thing.
* different rules exist for the G Concourse at MSP.
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Not sure why, but I can't stop laughing at this:
http://smokinjaycutler.tumblr.com/
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SKOL VIKINGS.
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Hey, I was rooting for them. I figure the Packers need the Niners to lose a couple times. Not really all that worried about the Vikings.
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Hey, I was rooting for them. I figure the Packers need the Niners to lose a couple times. Not really all that worried about the Vikings.
Agreed. Except that I'd rather have the Packers get a 4 seed and play in domes/warm weather throughout the Playoffs in route to the Super Bowl. That's just how the team is made up. I think they're more comfortable on the road if it's warm than at home in the freezing cold. Can throw the ball better and out score teams.
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Vikes had a good game. Grandpa Sid had them losing by 3 TD's.
Randy, the complete moron, Moss, didn't even show up.
He's the idiot that went off on Tinucci's when they catered a meal to Winter Park. He's a Waste of oxygen.
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I knew Pack would struggle in Seattle, but this first half offensively...my god. Playcalling and Rodgers holding the ball wayyyyyy too long, brutal. 8 sacks, zero running game. No screens, only a couple slants, yuck. Their D is playing well luckily.
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silver lining......back to back solid defensive games.
After last year's end, I'll take it....get the offense rolling again soon.
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They better figure out a way to keep Rodgers upright.
He's their best weapon, and he's only 1 big hit away from getting knocked out.
I know they want to throw it a lot, but they might have to commit to running the ball and pick their spots to pass. The O-line isn't going to hold up for 40 passes per game.
If the O-line can't protect, they are a 9-7 team.
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At least the Pack can make the appropriate halftime adjustments. Lovie Smith is the dumbest game coach I can remember watching.
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Lions, umm, might want to, I don't know, cover kicks/punts. Just sayin.
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3-1 bruh. SKOL VIKINGS! CONSENSUS #1 IN NFC NORTH AFTER WEEK 4!!!!
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Bear Down!
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Bear Down!
Cutler looked good last night.
Lots of Bears fans in Jerryland.
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Take 2 superbowl wins and call me in 5 years.
You'll feel fine.
Winning cures everything. McMahon was an a-hole, but everybody loves him because he won.
Cutler's body language, facial expressions and general demeanor are off putting. But, if/when he wins, it will be seen as competitiveness and toughness. When he loses, it will be seen as selfishness and being conceited.
You have to love sports hyperbole, especially in football.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/47246/the-jay-cutler-personality-debate-is-over
Jay certainly seems to be like another McMahon, at least to me.
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http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/47246/the-jay-cutler-personality-debate-is-over
Jay certainly seems to be like another McMahon, at least to me.
If he wins, he's McMahon. If he loses, he's Jeff George.
Some of that is Jay's fault, some of that is the media's.
It's a weird dichotomy where Jay's right arm is going to determine how people interpret his personality.
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Interesting game coming up this week for the Pack. Really tough to tell where they are at right now. No shame in losing to the 49ers at home, beat the Bears at home in what was an ugly offensive showing, really rough first half offensively in Seattle followed by you know what, then squeaked by an 0-4 Saints team at home.
I personally think they're in for a tough game in Indy. Indy's coming off their bye, who knows if there's an emotional element to Pagano being gone, and their at home. Logically speaking, the Pack should blow out the Colts, they're far and away much more talented on both sides of the ball.
I expect the Pack to win, but it may be closer than people think. A 37-13 Pack win, and I would suggest after the first quarter of the season, the Pack have found their way and be the formidable team we know. But if they struggle to a 24-21 win (or worse lose), then there are some warning signs.
Sneaky tough 3 game swing coming up, all 3 in domes against non division opponents. Next week will be obviously tough in Houston, week after could be sneaky tough in St. Louis. I think we'll know a lot more about who this Packers team is after this week.
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^ I agree, not sure what to expect especially since Jennings is likely out for a week or more but Green Bay has been pretty tough in road games and esp. domes in the last few years
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Interesting game coming up this week for the Pack. Really tough to tell where they are at right now. No shame in losing to the 49ers at home, beat the Bears at home in what was an ugly offensive showing, really rough first half offensively in Seattle followed by you know what, then squeaked by an 0-4 Saints team at home.
I personally think they're in for a tough game in Indy. Indy's coming off their bye, who knows if there's an emotional element to Pagano being gone, and their at home. Logically speaking, the Pack should blow out the Colts, they're far and away much more talented on both sides of the ball.
I expect the Pack to win, but it may be closer than people think. A 37-13 Pack win, and I would suggest after the first quarter of the season, the Pack have found their way and be the formidable team we know. But if they struggle to a 24-21 win (or worse lose), then there are some warning signs.
Sneaky tough 3 game swing coming up, all 3 in domes against non division opponents. Next week will be obviously tough in Houston, week after could be sneaky tough in St. Louis. I think we'll know a lot more about who this Packers team is after this week.
Blowing out Indy would mean nothing if the offense stinks it up in a tough road game the next week (see: Chicago Bears Week 1-2).
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Just an awful loss by Pack, up 21-3 at half. Brutal, they are not a great team this year, verdict is in.
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The long run notwithstanding, the lack of a running game after Benson went down was a killer. Don't know why Starks is still inactive.
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That last TO with the play clock winding down was inexcusable. Very un-Pack like.
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Bears looking like poop so far too. Somehow Gabbert is killing the bears' D on 3rd down.
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Total domination in second half, great job of imposing their will on an inferior opponent.
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Total domination in second half, great job of imposing their will on an inferior opponent.
Nice half by the Bears. Move that franchise to LA already.
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Wuz goodie?
Skol Vikings!!
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The more I think about this stupid Colts game, the more frustrated I get. (Mostly because I am going to have to deal with the local Colts morons for the week.) I have to vent so heregoes...
**Nick Perry roughing the passer call was awful. Packers get the ball there and score and the game is 21-0 very early in the second quarter. Not a debilitating penalty call by any stretch but incredibly annoying.
**The inability of the Packers to score on the drive that started just across midfield near the end of the second quarter was huge.
**The very first play that the Packer's run coming out of the half is a roll down bomb. No attempt to manage a drive to grab momentum out of the gate.
**Abandonment of the running game after Benson was hurt. Where is Starks?
**Dropped INTs. At least three that I can think of. (Two by Williams..one by Woodson.)
Still annoyed.
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Just looking over some stats, really surprised how middle of the road this Pack team is. They just lack the gusto they had the past few seasons. Middle of the road in most team stats, but most telling number to me is point differential, where they are at a non playoff worthy +1 through 5 games. I would be surprised (not shocked) if they're above .500 going into their bye.
Bears sit at 4-1 at the bye, next 3 appear like cupcakes (Lions at home, Panthers at home, at Titans). Then gets tough (Texans at home, at Niners, home vs Vikes). If the Bears can find a way to even go 1-2 in that strecth, should be 8-3 going into (almost) final quarter of the season.
I don't know what I think of the Vikes yet. If they hadn't beaten the Niners, I'd say look at who they've beaten (Jags, Titans, Lions), but have to respect them. Looking at their schedule, it's pretty darn easy coming up (@Was, home vs AZ, home vs TB, @ Seattle which will be tough, home vs Lions). Things get brutal after their bye, 6 game stretch with both Bears/Pack twice, @Hou, @St.L...ouch. They have to rack up as many wins before their bye, because they could go 0-6 that last stretch.
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They aren't creating turnovers and shortening the field. That IMO is the main problem.
Oh one other thing...the f*cking kicker they gave a big contract to before last year can't hit one of two 50 yard field goals...indoors.
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They aren't creating turnovers and shortening the field. That IMO is the main problem.
Oh one other thing...the f*cking kicker they gave a big contract to before last year can't hit one of two 50 yard field goals...indoors.
There was not a doubt in my mind that Crosby was going to miss that FG. How badly he missed it is just embarrassing. This team is in trouble. It is extremely poorly coached and it shows. I think next year the Packers will be taking offensive linemen in the first two rounds. Hopefully there is a center available.
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See I really like McCarthy so I don't think it's a coaching issue. I mean, he was brilliant during the Super Bowl run and last year. I think they miss Philbin. He was the voice in McCarthy's ear that would say stuff like "stop passing the ball so much."
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The NFL is a passing league.
Howeva!, if you have a big lead, and a mediocre defense, you need to control the ball and the clock.
With this said, I still think they realistically could be 10-6. Bears are probably a 12 win team. Vikes are probably a 9-7 team.
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See I really like McCarthy so I don't think it's a coaching issue. I mean, he was brilliant during the Super Bowl run and last year. I think they miss Philbin. He was the voice in McCarthy's ear that would say stuff like "stop passing the ball so much."
You're probably right about Philbin. But my problem is that I think that McCarthy just isn't that smart. Yeah, he won a Super Bowl, but about half the coaches in the NFL could win a Super Bowl with that offense.
Also, I can't wait until Jermichael Finley hits free agency and someone overpays him or he gets no money. Total regression from his first few years. He frightens no one anymore.
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Why don't you think McCarthy is smart? And to say "well anyone could have won a Super Bowl with that offense" is a little short-sighted. The went on that winning streak due to their play on both sides of the ball. Things gelled for that team right after that narrow loss on the road to New England, and a lot of that was due to McCarthy. I mean, I find it hard to fathom how a team that not too long ago went 21-1 over a 22 game span has a coaching problem.
The NFL is a fickle league. Teams that were good just a season before have things that don't click for them and they fall off for a year or two. Look at Tom Coughlin. Wins a Super Bowl...two years later he's 8-8...people want him fired...and two years later wins a Super Bowl again.
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McCarthy isn't dumb, first reaction to a loss is to start going after the coach. Not warranted at this point.
Still not worried about this season, playoff bound.
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I've never really thought of him as smart. I was not happy with the hire at the time either.
I know a lot of people blame the coach. What is the difference between this years offense and last years machine? Jeff Saturday. I'm not saying its him, but that is the point. What happened?
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I've never really thought of him as smart. I was not happy with the hire at the time either.
I know a lot of people blame the coach. What is the difference between this years offense and last years machine? Jeff Saturday. I'm not saying its him, but that is the point. What happened?
Not sure what happened. I don't understand how Indy's coverage was that good in the second half. I understand why the Niners and Seattle shutdown the receivers, but Indy?
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McCarthy isn't dumb, first reaction to a loss is to start going after the coach. Not warranted at this point.
Still not worried about this season, playoff bound.
Even with all the doom and gloom surrounding the Packers right now, they should be no worse than 5-4 when they hit their bye. The issue is that they can't afford another slip-up to an inferior team. After the bye, at NYG and at the Bears will be tough but there's no reason for them to lose any of those other games. 9-7 will likely get a team into the playoffs this season in the NFC and the Packers will probably win at least 10.
The Bears should be 7-1 before they play Houston and at SF. If they can win one of those two, they should be sitting pretty in the North.
The Vikings will go 8-8. The Lions should finish around 6-10 and Schwartz won't last the season.
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See I really like McCarthy so I don't think it's a coaching issue. I mean, he was brilliant during the Super Bowl run and last year. I think they miss Philbin. He was the voice in McCarthy's ear that would say stuff like "stop passing the ball so much."
This is funny. When did Philbin ever say such a thing? I believe A Rod had 2nd most passing yards in NFL history with 4600+. 45 tds 6 Ints last year. Not sure why in the world you think Philbin said "stop passing the ball so much." and if he did.......he was certainly not listened to by well......anyone.
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I've never really thought of him as smart. I was not happy with the hire at the time either.
I know a lot of people blame the coach. What is the difference between this years offense and last years machine? Jeff Saturday. I'm not saying its him, but that is the point. What happened?
Saturday is the only personnel change, and I don't think he has been very good.
But Rodgers isn't nearly as sharp as he was last year. I don't think the play calling is as good as it was previously. Either than or teams have figured some stuff out and they just haven't adjusted yet. And IMO the biggest stat - right now the Packers TO ratio is -1. Last year for the entire season it was +24...and in the 2010 playoff run it was +6.
But again, I just don't know how you can't say he is smart...what evidence leads you to that conclusion? And, while you may not have been happy with the hire, don't you think that his performance has pretty much proven you wrong?
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This is funny. When did Philbin ever say such a thing? I believe A Rod had 2nd most passing yards in NFL history with 4600+. 45 tds 6 Ints last year. Not sure why in the world you think Philbin said "stop passing the ball so much." and if he did.......he was certainly not listened to by well......anyone.
I meant it as an example. But I have no knowledge of what exactly he did. Just an opinion.
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I meant it as an example. But I have no knowledge of what exactly he did. Just an opinion.
Yeah---of the things Philbin may have said without anyone's knowledge--I'd bet the house "stop passing the ball" were NEVER uttered.
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Yeah---of the things Philbin may have said without anyone's knowledge--I'd bet the house "stop passing the ball" were NEVER uttered.
When your defense is creating turnovers and your QB is insanely accurate, passing the ball is awesome. 15-1 awesome in fact.
When your defense is average, and your QB isn't having a historic season, you probably need to find some sort of running game.
They are 2-3, but they aren't far from being 4-1.
Adjustments need to be made, but the talent is there.
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Saturday is the only personnel change, and I don't think he has been very good.
But Rodgers isn't nearly as sharp as he was last year. I don't think the play calling is as good as it was previously. Either than or teams have figured some stuff out and they just haven't adjusted yet. And IMO the biggest stat - right now the Packers TO ratio is -1. Last year for the entire season it was +24...and in the 2010 playoff run it was +6.
But again, I just don't know how you can't say he is smart...what evidence leads you to that conclusion? And, while you may not have been happy with the hire, don't you think that his performance has pretty much proven you wrong?
Put it this way. He is not an elite play caller (Bellichek, Payton, etc.). Imagine what those guys could do with this offense. Brees is down in NO crushing records for years with pedestrian WRs (The only really good one that comes to mind is Joe Horn, and he flamed out quickly).
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Put it this way. He is not an elite play caller (Bellichek, Payton, etc.). Imagine what those guys could do with this offense. Brees is down in NO crushing records for years with pedestrian WRs (The only really good one that comes to mind is Joe Horn, and he flamed out quickly).
Jimmy Graham and Marques Colston are no slouches.
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Jimmy Graham and Marques Colston are no slouches.
I'll give you Graham, but he has only been around for 3 years (2 years of actual production). Colston is completely average.
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I'll give you Graham, but he has only been around for 3 years (2 years of actual production). Colston is completely average.
A guy who averaged 75 receptions, 1000+ yards and 8 TDs in 6 seasons is "completely average" in your book? Who would you consider to be an above average WR?
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A guy who averaged 75 receptions, 1000+ yards and 8 TDs in 6 seasons is "completely average" in your book? Who would you consider to be an above average WR?
For a starting WR on a pass heavy team those are totally average numbers. He has never made the pro bowl.
32 teams in the NFL, meaning 32 #1 receivers. Last year he was the #14 WR... and didn't even have the most yards on his team.
I'm just saying that if you put someone like Larry Fitzgerald or any other above average receiver with Drew Brees they will end up putting up disgusting numbers simply because the Saints throw it so much.
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For a starting WR on a pass heavy team those are totally average numbers. He has never made the pro bowl.
32 teams in the NFL, meaning 32 #1 receivers. Last year he was the #14 WR... and didn't even have the most yards on his team.
I'm just saying that if you put someone like Larry Fitzgerald or any other above average receiver with Drew Brees they will end up putting up disgusting numbers simply because the Saints throw it so much.
You didn't answer the question. Who would you consider to be an above average WR?
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Bears #2 WR Alshon Jeffery out at least a couple games with a fractured right hand. Crap. At least he doesn't need surgery.
http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/8479835/chicago-bears-alshon-jeffery-fracture-right-hand
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Graham is a stud, and is on a team where he can continue to be so. And I think Colston is definitely above average, but he is by no means a stud. I'd probably put him somewhere around 25th in the league.
There's something to be said for 75 Rec, 1000 yds and 8 TDs as not that outstanding when your team has averaged 415 Cmps, 4732 yds and 34 TDs over that span. FWIW, over that span, Colston has lead the team in all three of those statistics in the same year twice (including tied for lead in TDs with Meachem one year), and has led the team in any two twice more.
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Benson more or less done for year.
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The Pack feasted off turnovers in SB run and last year and that is missing this year. Our bad D always made a play when needed and was big part of our success. Job is much tougher for AR this time around. In addition, it looks like everyone has figured out our passing game to some degree. Not giving up hope but things are not looking very bright currently.
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In my opinion the defense had a nice interception late in the 4th, I thought that would be the dagger.
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The Pack feasted off turnovers in SB run and last year and that is missing this year. Our bad D always made a play when needed and was big part of our success. Job is much tougher for AR this time around. In addition, it looks like everyone has figured out our passing game to some degree. Not giving up hope but things are not looking very bright currently.
In 2010, the packers were 3-3 and did not look impressive with a narrow victory against an average Detroit team a loss to Miami and a loss to Washington. Every season is different, maybe a little adversity now will pay off later. Agree with you on the turnovers, and the offense has got to improve soon.
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You didn't answer the question. Who would you consider to be an above average WR?
After combing the stats, I'll give you that Colston is above average, but what makes him above average is Drew Brees.
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GB will make the playoffs and be a very scary team that no team wants to see.
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GB will make the playoffs and be a very scary team that no team wants to see.
They may make the playoffs, but I don't know how scary they'll be, not this year. They just do not have it this year, they really don't. Through 5 games they're a medicore +1 in point differential, a medicore -1 in TO Ratio, they're offensive line is terrible (23 sacks given up through 5 games, second most in the league), and they're 20th in the NFL in rushing, 17th in the NFL against the run.
The trend just is not their friend this season. If they had to go on the road to NYG, SF, or ATL in the playoffs, (as of today), they'd lose.
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They may make the playoffs, but I don't know how scary they'll be, not this year. They just do not have it this year, they really don't. Through 5 games they're a medicore +1 in point differential, a medicore -1 in TO Ratio, they're offensive line is terrible (23 sacks given up through 5 games, second most in the league), and they're 20th in the NFL in rushing, 17th in the NFL against the run.
The trend just is not their friend this season. If they had to go on the road to NYG, SF, or ATL in the playoffs, (as of today), they'd lose.
Operative phrase being (as of today). Things can change quickly over the course of the season. How were the 2011 giants early on, how about 2010 packers, 2008 steelers or 2007 giants.
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They may make the playoffs, but I don't know how scary they'll be, not this year. They just do not have it this year, they really don't. Through 5 games they're a medicore +1 in point differential, a medicore -1 in TO Ratio, they're offensive line is terrible (23 sacks given up through 5 games, second most in the league), and they're 20th in the NFL in rushing, 17th in the NFL against the run.
The trend just is not their friend this season. If they had to go on the road to NYG, SF, or ATL in the playoffs, (as of today), they'd lose.
It's a good thing the playoffs don't start this week then :) There is still over 2/3 of the season left. You could have said many of the same things about GB two years ago.
My money is on Rodgers and the offense to turn it around and the defense starting to force a few more tos, especially ints off the increased pressure they've been generating thus far.
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Actually, the Packers were much more impressive two years ago before injuries derailed the season. There are much more significant weaknesses on this team.
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I can appreciate you guys supporting your team and thinking they'll right the ship, I just don't see it. Both the statistical analysis and the eye test, they're just missing something this year. When you look at their 2 wins this year, both were kinda ugly. The first half against the Bears wasn't great by any means, the held on to beat a bad Saints team at home. I understand the Seahawk loss shouldn't have been, but they still got pounded in the first half offensively. Blowing a 21-3 lead to the worst team in football from a year ago, that just shouldn't happen.
I know there is 11 games to go, but I've got a lot of concerns about that Pack team this year. Doesn't get much easier this Sunday, and the week after going to St. Louis could be rough.
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Actually, the Packers were much more impressive two years ago before injuries derailed the season. There are much more significant weaknesses on this team.
How so? After 5 games:
2010
Record 3-2
Rodgers Yards 1,233
Packers Net Yards 1,711
Opp Net Yards 1,566
Net Yards Diff/Game 29
TO Margin -2
Pt Margin 30
2012
Record 2-3
Rodgers Yards 1,307
Packers Net Yards 1,690
Opp Net Yards 1,721
Net Yards Diff/Game -6.2
TO Margin -1
Pt Margin 1
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I can appreciate you guys supporting your team and thinking they'll right the ship, I just don't see it. Both the statistical analysis and the eye test, they're just missing something this year. When you look at their 2 wins this year, both were kinda ugly. The first half against the Bears wasn't great by any means, the held on to beat a bad Saints team at home. I understand the Seahawk loss shouldn't have been, but they still got pounded in the first half offensively. Blowing a 21-3 lead to the worst team in football from a year ago, that just shouldn't happen.
I know there is 11 games to go, but I've got a lot of concerns about that Pack team this year. Doesn't get much easier this Sunday, and the week after going to St. Louis could be rough.
I'll take my chances with the best QB in the league and an improving pass rush. They are playing awful right now, but are still just a whisker away from being 4-1. Last year they were catching those breaks--getting timely turnovers when they needed them despite giving up yards, exposing miscues by the defense. I think in certain areas they might have tried to get a little too cute this year or expected those breaks instead of creating them.
I'm not predicting a win on Sunday on the road, but for some reason I think they'll play much better against Houston and go 3-1 up to the bye. Again, all you have to do is point to 2 years ago. 3-3 with 2 straight ugly losses to Wash and Miami (right up there with the Ind loss), before finishing on a 7-3 roll to end the reg season and going through the playoffs.
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OK, you just pointed out stats that the 2010 team had a better record, gained more net yards, and scored more points than the 2012 team. Not sure what else I can say that would prove my point better than you just did.
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OK, you just pointed out stats that the 2010 team had a better record, gained more net yards, and scored more points than the 2012 team. Not sure what else I can say that would prove my point better than you just did.
Interesting. Using statistically insignificant margins to prove a point of "much more significant weaknesses."
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We look horrible so far and I agree that something seems to be missing. Maybe I'm naive, but I think that something may be Greg Jennings. Do I think we'll all of a sudden become a team that wins 21 out of the next 22 games when he gets back? No. But I think we'll be a much, much better football team offensively. Rodgers will look much better than he has. The offense will open up. I can remember very few plays where Packers receivers have gained significant yards after the catch. Jennings brings that big time. That will also free up Nelson to get those YAC like he always has, but has not this season being the #1 receiver.
By the middle of the season I would expect to see a fully healthy Jennings, which will allow him and Nelson to both be the receivers that they were last year, and Cobb and Jones can hopefully continue their improved production, giving the Packers once again the best wide receiving core in the NFL, to go with the best quarterback in the NFL. The running game will be the same running game we've seen out of the Packers for quite a while. Non-existent, but the "running" plays will come from quick throws.
My biggest concern is defensive back. Williams is hot and cold, overall a good but not great cornerback. Beyond that Shields is god awful. I truly think the rookie Hayward should see more snaps than Shields does. That is the one area that I do not see the Packers fixing this season. The linebackers and line will not be strengths, but they won't be weaknesses either. The O-line will figure it out enough (everyone talked about how horrible the O-line was to start 2010 and they became a strength by the end of the year).
Everyone seems to be praising the Bears as a legitimate contender while saying the Packers just don't have "it" this year, yet the Packers flat out embarrassed the Bears (at least the Bears' offense), all while playing a pretty poor game themselves.
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OK, you just pointed out stats that the 2010 team had a better record, gained more net yards, and scored more points than the 2012 team. Not sure what else I can say that would prove my point better than you just did.
The 2010 team gained 35 more net yards per game (20th this year, the 2010 mark would rank them 15th this year) and had a worse turnover margin by 1 through 5 games (with another stinker coming up against Miami the next week). If you think that is "much more impressive", not sure what else I can say.
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We look horrible so far and I agree that something seems to be missing. Maybe I'm naive, but I think that something may be Greg Jennings. Do I think we'll all of a sudden become a team that wins 21 out of the next 22 games when he gets back? No. But I think we'll be a much, much better football team offensively. Rodgers will look much better than he has. The offense will open up. I can remember very few plays where Packers receivers have gained significant yards after the catch. Jennings brings that big time. That will also free up Nelson to get those YAC like he always has, but has not this season being the #1 receiver.
By the middle of the season I would expect to see a fully healthy Jennings, which will allow him and Nelson to both be the receivers that they were last year, and Cobb and Jones can hopefully continue their improved production, giving the Packers once again the best wide receiving core in the NFL, to go with the best quarterback in the NFL. The running game will be the same running game we've seen out of the Packers for quite a while. Non-existent, but the "running" plays will come from quick throws.
My biggest concern is defensive back. Williams is hot and cold, overall a good but not great cornerback. Beyond that Shields is god awful. I truly think the rookie Hayward should see more snaps than Shields does. That is the one area that I do not see the Packers fixing this season. The linebackers and line will not be strengths, but they won't be weaknesses either. The O-line will figure it out enough (everyone talked about how horrible the O-line was to start 2010 and they became a strength by the end of the year).
Everyone seems to be praising the Bears as a legitimate contender while saying the Packers just don't have "it" this year, yet the Packers flat out embarrassed the Bears (at least the Bears' offense), all while playing a pretty poor game themselves.
I'd suggest the Bears offensive line embarassed themselves, and the poor mechanics and decision making of Jay Cutler helped out an otherwise lethargic Green Bay offense that night. I'm not hearing much praise for the Bears, at least on this site. They did their job and whipped up on a far inferior Jags team like they should have on Sunday. Bears are playing much better last 2 weeks, but still ways to go.
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Interesting. Using statistically insignificant margins to prove a point of "much more significant weaknesses."
Are they statistically insignificant?
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My biggest concern is defensive back. Williams is hot and cold, overall a good but not great cornerback. Beyond that Shields is god awful. I truly think the rookie Hayward should see more snaps than Shields does. That is the one area that I do not see the Packers fixing this season. The linebackers and line will not be strengths, but they won't be weaknesses either. The O-line will figure it out enough (everyone talked about how horrible the O-line was to start 2010 and they became a strength by the end of the year).
I completely agree about the defensive backfield. Nick Collins was so much better than any people thought. The pass defense hasn't been the same since he left.
And as much as I hate to say it, Charles Woodson is on the downside of his career. He was stellar the year before the Super Bowl...very good during the Super Bowl year...but the last two have been pretty average.
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Are they statistically insignificant?
1 win, 74 passing yards, 21 net yards, +1TO, after 5 games... I don't think we need SPSS to tell us that those are insignificant. 155 opp net yards, perhaps there's something there, but certainly not enough to draw a conclusion.
Point margin in NFL is great for breaking ties... using it to compare two teams, not so much. In fact, of the team statistics most often cited, point margin has to be the worst predictor of a team's ability. The Eagles and Giants are both atop the NFCE right now at 3-2, the former with -19, the latter with +41. The two highest margins belong to the 4-1 49ers and Bears... one of which embarrassed and the other who was embarrassed by the same team within a period of 4 days. Last year's Super Bowl Champion ended the year -9, while the >+200 Packers and Saints were bounced from the playoffs early.
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I'm not hearing much praise for the Bears, at least on this site.
(cough, cough, from a Packers Fan):
re: 2012 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #175 on: October 02, 2012, 09:57:22 AM »
Cutler looked good last night.
Lots of Bears fans in Jerryland.
EDIT to add:
And, your pre-game analysis of the Colts/Packers game was rather prescient. Well played.
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(cough, cough, from a Packers Fan):
re: 2012 NFC North/NFL Thread
« Reply #175 on: October 02, 2012, 09:57:22 AM »
Cutler looked good last night.
Lots of Bears fans in Jerryland.
EDIT to add:
And, your pre-game analysis of the Colts/Packers game was rather prescient. Well played.
Touche, can't argue with that. I was more or less saying people weren't going too overboard with beating down a terrible Jags team. Bears still have a long way to go (o-line, next poor Cutler game, not great depth in certain areas).
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a little late getting here but - Hitler reacts to Seattle-Green Bay game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA2wKCmzwR0
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Well then...
I see no reason the Packers cannot win all 5 of their remaining division games and win the NFC North again. When they are bringing it they are clearly the most dangerous team in the NFL. I cannot wait to see what the offense looks like with Greg Jennings back.
Just hope none of tonight's injuries were serious...
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Is Houston this bad? I didn't they were this bad.
Back to the GMen and Packers for the NFC title game.
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;D
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Is Houston this bad? I didn't they were this bad.
Back to the GMen and Packers for the NFC title game.
Houston isn't as bad as they looked but they're overrated. They got to 5-0 by playing Miami, Jax, Denver, Tennessee and the Jets. Not exactly the NFL's elite. They also start Danieal Manning at safety which is eventually going to be a problem because it means they have no safety better than Danieal Manning.
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Houston isn't as bad as they looked but they're overrated. They got to 5-0 by playing Miami, Jax, Denver, Tennessee and the Jets. Not exactly the NFL's elite. They also start Danieal Manning at safety which is eventually going to be a problem because it means they have no safety better than Danieal Manning.
http://instantrimshot.com/
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http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8506988/the-top-teams-game-rest-week-6-news
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What did people think of Suh's hit on Cutler? Was it dirty? Apparently, a lot of people are all riled up about it.
Personally, I didn't think it was a dirty play. Violent? Yes. Awkward? Yes. Suh has a reputation as a dirty player which is likely the only reason it's even being talked about. If Peppers sacked Stafford in that same fashion, it'd be a non-issue.
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I thought the hit was fine.
Honestly though, I don't think I have seen a 13-6 game where the team with 6 has *three* redzone turnovers. I'd like to give credit to the Bears' defense, but cmon...
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Not a dirty hit at all. The game was actually rather tame for the expectations.
Honestly though, I don't think I have seen a 13-6 game where the team with 6 has *three* redzone turnovers. I'd like to give credit to the Bears' defense, but cmon...
Bears still can't put points on the board like they need to. Chicago will blame Cutler for being hurt though. Game should have been 31-0.
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I thought the hit was fine.
Honestly though, I don't think I have seen a 13-6 game where the team with 6 has *three* redzone turnovers. I'd like to give credit to the Bears' defense, but cmon...
I'll give credit to them then, that was another outstanding defensive effort last night. They've given up 6 defensive TD's all season, while scoring 5 (amazing stat). That final score was not indicative of how that game was.
I had no problem with the hit, wasn't dirty at all. Later in the game Suh had a free shot at Cutler and stopped short.
Last 11 games, Cutler is 10-1, best record of any QB in the NFL over that timeframe. Thought last night was Cutler's best game of the season, he was outstanding. Also as I've said, he's one of the toughest QB's in the NFL, proved it last night.
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Not a dirty hit at all. The game was actually rather tame for the expectations.
Bears still can't put points on the board like they need to. Chicago will blame Cutler for being hurt though. Game should have been 31-0.
The Bears' O has been struggling in the red zone (mainly because their goal line strategy seems to be "force it to Marshall") but the offense is averaging 21.2 ppg (27 ppg overall) which is plenty when the D is allowing 13 points and forcing 3.5 TOs/game. In other words, they haven't needed to put up big points yet. Eventually, there's going to be a game where the D doesn't force TOs but the O or ST turn it over and give away some easy points. Hopefully the offense is ready to respond at that point. So far, they've just needed to take care of the football and in 5 of 6 games, they've done that.
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I have ripped Cutler and the coaching staff, and now I have to give them credit. They are now rolling him out, employing 3 step plays, mixing in the ground game, dumping the ball, and lo and behold his technique and performance has improved. Most amazing stat was that was only his 6th TD on a roll out while with the Bears vs. 20 odd at Denver. Why it took that long to make adjustments over three OC's is another question.
Legal hit, even Cutler said so afterwards. Agree on the Red Zone assessment.
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Last 11 games, Cutler is 10-1, best record of any QB in the NFL over that timeframe. Thought last night was Cutler's best game of the season, he was outstanding. Also as I've said, he's one of the toughest QB's in the NFL, proved it last night.
That was one of the best games I've ever seen from Cutler in terms of getting rid of the ball quickly, moving smartly in the pocket, and choosing the best times to run. His numbers may not have been gaudy, but he was doing exactly what he needed to.
Tice still worries me with his playcalling. He did a great job with Cutler, but the Red Zone offense is bad when you have 2 great backs, and I still feel like he doesn't know how to use Forte. Forte is one of the best backs in the league in space, yet Tice seemingly runs him up the middle and off tackle too often. I'd like a few more tosses, RB screens, and the like. After the Bears went up early, the playcalling felt too predictable. Like they were perfectly happy being up 10 and playing D.
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There was a football game on last night?!? Sorry.... I was flipping back and forth between a mind-numbingly boring NLCS Game 7 blowout, and an even more mind-numbing "presidential" debate.
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That was one of the best games I've ever seen from Cutler in terms of getting rid of the ball quickly, moving smartly in the pocket, and choosing the best times to run. His numbers may not have been gaudy, but he was doing exactly what he needed to.
Tice still worries me with his playcalling. He did a great job with Cutler, but the Red Zone offense is bad when you have 2 great backs, and I still feel like he doesn't know how to use Forte. Forte is one of the best backs in the league in space, yet Tice seemingly runs him up the middle and off tackle too often. I'd like a few more tosses, RB screens, and the like. After the Bears went up early, the playcalling felt too predictable. Like they were perfectly happy being up 10 and playing D.
Tice does seem to make some interesting calls but Cutler is also allowed to audible and, for lack of a better term, call the shots more often, which keeps him happy. Perhaps it's the influence of Jeremy Bates as the QB coach but Cutler appears to really be buying into Tice's system more than he has in the past with Turner and Martz.
The Bears really did appear to have the mindset of "Detroit can't score 2 TDs against us. This one's over."
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I'll give credit to them then, that was another outstanding defensive effort last night. They've given up 6 defensive TD's all season, while scoring 5 (amazing stat).
I am pretty sure that 3 of the 6 defensive TD's they have given up have been drives of less than 10 yards.
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I am pretty sure that 3 of the 6 defensive TD's they have given up have been drives of less than 10 yards.
Not quite:
Colts 2 TDs (77 & 80 yards)
Packers 2 TDS (80* & 26 yards)
* 1st TD was on a fake FG, so I guess you can hang that on special teams.
Cowboys 2 TDs (80 & 89 yards)
Lions 1 TD (59 yards)
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Hi closet Vikings fans! Hop on board and cheer on your NFC North champs-to-be tonight! 7-point favorites to go to 6-2. SKOL VIKINGS
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Hi closet Vikings fans! Hop on board and cheer on your NFC North champs-to-be tonight! 7-point favorites to go to 6-2. SKOL VIKINGS
I took the Bucs +7.
terrible line.
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Pound the under tonight. I forgot the stat, but the under has hit on some ridiculous % on Thursday night games.
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too bad the Vikings have a terrible record in primetime, something like 1-11 in recent years
In other news, Greg Jennings will have surgery next Tuesday to repair a torn abdominal muscle, they say he will return this season but I'd bet he doesn't return to GB next season.
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Pound the under tonight. I forgot the stat, but the under has hit on some ridiculous % on Thursday night games.
+1
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too bad the Vikings have a terrible record in primetime, something like 1-11 in recent years
In other news, Greg Jennings will have surgery next Tuesday to repair a torn abdominal muscle, they say he will return this season but I'd bet he doesn't return to GB next season.
Unless he comes back for the playoffs, probably have seen Jennings for the last time in a Packer uniform. As they've shown recently though, they haven't lost a step without him. Jennings will be an overpaid Dolphin or Jet next year.
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I don't know if he'll get that contract he is looking for. This well planned effort by his agent to get him more publicity in a contract year may not work out.
(Although betting on NFL GMs *not* to overpay is never a safe bet.)
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Unless he comes back for the playoffs, probably have seen Jennings for the last time in a Packer uniform. As they've shown recently though, they haven't lost a step without him. Jennings will be an overpaid Dolphin or Jet next year.
I'd be willing to put some money on Seahawks in the bidding war as well.
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Pound the under tonight. I forgot the stat, but the under has hit on some ridiculous % on Thursday night games.
Until tonight.
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Until tonight.
The moment I wrote it was the kiss of death.
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The moment I wrote it was the kiss of death.
Who knew? Doug Martin. 32 touches. Never heard of him.
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Who knew? Doug Martin. 32 touches. Never heard of him.
Got me 33 points for my fantasy team tonight :) Looks like its back to a two team race for the division. Hopefully the Bears can pull it out.
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Defensive fill-ins: The Packers should be able to handle the Jaguars' underwhelming offense even with two of their top five defensive backs (Charles Woodson and Sam Shields) sidelined by injuries. Woodson's injury, however, will give us an extended look at rookie Casey Hayward and help us determine if he is playing as well as the statistics indicate. Hayward's four interceptions are tied with two other players for the NFL lead. And according to Pro Football Focus, opponents have completed only 44.8 percent of the passes thrown his way. The resulting 23.7 passer rating on throws in Hayward's direction is the NFL's best. Is Hayward really that good? Let's keep an eye on him Sunday and in the coming weeks.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/tag/_/name/final-word-2012-week-8
I'm really excited about this kid. I said a few games ago that Hayward should be playing more than Sheilds as our #2 cornerback. With the added playing time due to injuries he is obviously going to regress to the mean and not be as efficient as he has been in his limited roll so far this year, but I love Hayward. We'll see how it goes.
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Gross win today. The Bears always play terribly against the Panthers, but they won. Defense stepped up BIG in the 4th.
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Yeah it was a pretty bad effort by the Packers as well.
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Two ugly wins by the Packers and the Bears. But both get one step closer to the playoffs; always the goal in October. Long, long way to go.
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Rumors are that Packers are trying to obtain Stephen Jackson. That would be a real, real nice addition. Can we give them AJ Hawk in return???
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Rumors are that Packers are trying to obtain Stephen Jackson. That would be a real, real nice addition. Can we give them AJ Hawk in return???
Not this year. He is playing alright, and we are so thin at LB.
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Rumors are that Packers are trying to obtain Stephen Jackson. That would be a real, real nice addition. Can we give them AJ Hawk in return???
For serious rumors?
Is Blout being discussed?
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Tons of RB's on the market. SJax, Felix Jones, Blount, DeAngelo to name a few.
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Rumors are that Packers are trying to obtain Stephen Jackson. That would be a real, real nice addition. Can we give them AJ Hawk in return???
Love to have Jackson, but Hawk is doing ok this year (except that blatant missed tackle in open field yesterday) and the linebacker position is already thin.
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Love to have Jackson, but Hawk is doing ok this year (except that blatant missed tackle in open field yesterday) and the linebacker position is already thin.
What does Jackson give the Packers that Starks doesn't already?
I vote pass.
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What does Jackson give the Packers that Starks doesn't already?
I vote pass.
Is this a serious question?
James Starks is awful. Stephen Jackson is a pro bowler when he isn't hurt.
They are both hurt about the same amount.
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What does Jackson give the Packers that Starks doesn't already?
I vote pass.
Pro bowl quality back, experience,
Jackson is getting long in the tooth though and has had his own injury problems, If the packers could get him for the right price he would help for sure and be an upgrade over green and starks.
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Let's be honest here, TT isn't making a trade before the deadline.
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Let's be honest here, TT isn't making a trade before the deadline.
Similar to last year when many thought he would pull the trigger on a Marshawn Lynch trade, but didn't.
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Similar to last year when many thought he would pull the trigger on a Marshawn Lynch trade, but didn't.
Still makes be sad on the inside.
Skittles.
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Is this a serious question?
They are both hurt about the same amount.
That was pretty much my point.
I'm OK with TT's approach. I wouldn't spend/trade for an often injured older running back. Not that, as it turns out, he was even available.
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Similar to last year when many thought he would pull the trigger on a Marshawn Lynch trade, but didn't.
That wasn't last year. That was a few years ago when Lynch was still in Buffalo.
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+1000000000
Let's be honest here, TT isn't making a trade before the deadline.
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Uh sultan, when was lynch last in buffalo?
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Uh sultan, when was lynch last in buffalo?
2010. He was traded to Seattle midway through the season. Last I checked, 2010 wasn't "last year."
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Found this to be absolutely amazing.
Kansas City has not had a QB that they've drafted, win a game for them since Todd Blackledge...
...in 1987!
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Bears D is just unreal right now.
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I love Randall Cobb. Most receivers mature in their third season. Cobb is going to be a superstar by next year.
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Bears D is just unreal right now.
Scary good.
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I love Randall Cobb. Most receivers mature in their third season. Cobb is going to be a superstar by next year.
Agreed. He's as exciting to watch as they come.
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Peanut Tillman legit league MVP candidate. Just wow.
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The ball he punched out on the first play was amazing. Punched it out, and just walked away like it was no big deal. And really were there any Titans fans there.
Sultan,
My bad. Guess my mind is trying to block out the 2011 season.
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Peanut Tillman legit league MVP candidate. Just wow.
Half way through the season Peanut is the Defensive POY. No question.
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Bears D is just unreal right now.
Really? Who have they played? Next 4 weeks will tell the tale.
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Really? Who have they played? Next 4 weeks will tell the tale.
The end of the season is going to be really fun to watch. Tons of divisional games. Pack/Bears race will be really exciting.
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Really? Who have they played? Next 4 weeks will tell the tale.
They can only play the games that are scheduled. That said the Bears D is ridiculous at this point. However, Urlacer's pick 6 was hilariously slow. He looked like a lineman returning that thing.
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The end of the season is going to be really fun to watch. Tons of divisional games. Pack/Bears race will be really exciting.
I don't think it's far-fetched that the Pack & Bears finish with the same record. Soldier Field game will be big.
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They can only play the games that are scheduled. That said the Bears D is ridiculous at this point. However, Urlacer's pick 6 was hilariously slow. He looked like a lineman returning that thing.
Super slo-mo, yet did 1 player get a hand on him?
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They can only play the games that are scheduled. That said the Bears D is ridiculous at this point. However, Urlacer's pick 6 was hilariously slow. He looked like a lineman returning that thing.
+54
I actually said to my wife, "He definitely runs like a guy who's played linebacker in the NFL for 13 years."
(She looked up from her People Magazine and replied, "Who does that?")
Super slo-mo, yet did 1 player get a hand on him?
No but Hasselbeck tried to leg-whip him.
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+54
I actually said to my wife, "He definitely runs like a guy who's played linebacker in the NFL for 13 years."
(She looked up from her People Magazine and replied, "Who does that?")
No but Hasselbeck tried to leg-whip him.
And here it is...
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1685493/hasselbeckonD_medium.gif)
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No but Hasselbeck tried to leg-whip him.
So Hasselback had a leg-whip and a horsecollar tackle. Impressive.
How long do you think it will be before Peanut misses on a strip attempt and gets flagged for punching?
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Really? Who have they played? Next 4 weeks will tell the tale.
They've played the Colts, Packers, Rams, Cowboys, Jags, Lions, Panthers, Titans. In April, the NFL determined these opponents would appear on their schedule during these weeks. The Bears have obliged and played those opponents at the time/date dictated by the National Football League. For quicker reference, you can google "Chicago Bears Schedule" or go to nfl.com or chicagobears.com for a list of their opponents.
The "who have they played?" argument is weak. Check out the Falcons schedule if you want to go that route.
Fact is, they are playing at a ridiculous level right now. 6th in yards against, 2nd in points against, 3rd in sacks, 1st in INT's, 1st in FF's. They're on pace to obliterate the Defensive Returns for TD record. Only team in NFL history to have 2 players score defensive TD's in back to back weeks. Only team in NFL history in one qtr to have a passing TD, rushing TD, defensive TD, and special teams TD.
Finally, what offense is scary that they play over the next 4 weeks? Over the next quarter of the season, the Bears have 3 games at home, 1 on the road. They play the (not ready for prime time) Texans at home, go to SF, then get the Vikings and Seahawks both at home. I'm not foolish enough to say the Bears will go 4-0 in that stretch, but not exactly playing the 09 Pats offense coming up anytime soon.
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This Bears fan is glad to see Bart Starr is still well enough to visit Wisconsin. Although, i believe Urlacher could outrun him today.
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And here it is...
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1685493/hasselbeckonD_medium.gif)
I think that video has been sped up a little compared to what I saw on TV.
On another note, "Peanut" Tillman might miss the game on Sunday night due to his wife might be going into labor on Sunday. Her due date is on Monday.
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Really? Who have they played? Next 4 weeks will tell the tale.
Like I said....
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Thanks Nostradamus.
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Like I said....
Really? You're going to put that much stock in a game played in wind and rain storm with the Bears' back-up QB playing the 2nd half?
Granted, the Bears' offense was pretty pathetic and I have no idea why Campbell kept throwing checkdowns late in the game but they actually outgained the Texans in the game. The difference was the TOs and it's likely that the Bears' 2 fumbles and one of Jennings' INTs doesn't happen without a slick ball/field.
If the game was played at noon (when it was 55 and sunny), it would have been entirely different. Doesn't mean that the Bears would have won but it would have given a better idea of how these two teams truly match-up.
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Really? You're going to put that much stock in a game played in wind and rain storm with the Bears' back-up QB playing the 2nd half?
Granted, the Bears' offense was pretty pathetic and I have no idea why Campbell kept throwing checkdowns late in the game but they actually outgained the Texans in the game. The difference was the TOs and it's likely that the Bears' 2 fumbles and one of Jennings' INTs doesn't happen without a slick ball/field.
If the game was played at noon (when it was 55 and sunny), it would have been entirely different. Doesn't mean that the Bears would have won but it would have given a better idea of how these two teams truly match-up.
Wait, The texans were playing in a dome while the bears were playing in bad weather. How does that work.
If it was bad weather you would think the bears would have the advantage.
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Wait, The texans were playing in a dome while the bears were playing in bad weather. How does that work.
If it was bad weather you would think the bears would have the advantage.
When did I say anything even remotely close to that? Both teams played poorly in an ugly, bad weather game.
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When did I say anything even remotely close to that? Both teams played poorly in an ugly, bad weather game.
You were responding to someone challenging how good the bears are based on their schedule, and you implied that the bears played poorly because of the weather. All i am saying is both teams played in the same weather and the dome team played better.
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You were responding to someone challenging how good the bears are based on their schedule, and you implied that the bears played poorly because of the weather. All i am saying is both teams played in the same weather and the dome team played better.
What does being a dome team have to do with anything? It's not like the Bears played their first 8 games in a rainstorm while the Texans always played indoors. The Texans played poorly because of the weather too.
The fact of the matter is that you can't take a whole lot away from this game, for either team, because neither one of them was playing the way they're built to play. In ideal conditions, maybe the Texans win by 30. Who knows?
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What does being a dome team have to do with anything? It's not like the Bears played their first 8 games in a rainstorm while the Texans always played indoors. The Texans played poorly because of the weather too.
The fact of the matter is that you can't take a whole lot away from this game, for either team, because neither one of them was playing the way they're built to play. In ideal conditions, maybe the Texans win by 30. Who knows?
Can't you just admit that they aren't as great as you thought they were?
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What does being a dome team have to do with anything? It's not like the Bears played their first 8 games in a rainstorm while the Texans always played indoors. The Texans played poorly because of the weather too.
The fact of the matter is that you can't take a whole lot away from this game, for either team, because neither one of them was playing the way they're built to play. In ideal conditions, maybe the Texans win by 30. Who knows?
Ok I understand your point, except I think you can take a whole lot out of the game. Only myopic fans pick and choose the games you want to judge your team by. It was a game on the schedule both teams played in the same conditons and the bears lost.
By the way, the bears outgained the texans by 34 yards, hardly a huge disparity. I have heard how great the bears are because they can create turnovers, yet when the other team does it to the bears it is because of the weather so some how that doesen't count.
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What does being a dome team have to do with anything? It's not like the Bears played their first 8 games in a rainstorm while the Texans always played indoors. The Texans played poorly because of the weather too.
The fact of the matter is that you can't take a whole lot away from this game, for either team, because neither one of them was playing the way they're built to play. In ideal conditions, maybe the Texans win by 30. Who knows?
Bull. the Bears are built to play outdoors in cold, unforgiving weather. The Texans are built to play on a fast dry track, preferably indoors. You can take plenty away from the result.
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Can't you just admit that they aren't as great as you thought they were?
When did I say that I thought the Bears were great?
Ok I understand your point, except I think you can take a whole lot out of the game. Only myopic fans pick and choose the games you want to judge your team by. It was a game on the schedule both teams played in the same conditons and the bears lost.
By the way, the bears outgained the texans by 34 yards, hardly a huge disparity. I have heard how great the bears are because they can create turnovers, yet when the other team does it to the bears it is because of the weather so some how that doesen't count.
I never said that the TOs don't count. In fact, I said that one of Tim Jennings' INTs likely was a result of the weather (the WR fell down). His other one may have been weather-related too since Schaub overshot the WR. The game also wasn't a true representation of the Texans. What is so hard to understand?
If MU played on the slippery court against tOSU and won an ugly, TO-filled game 33-30, would you say that it was a fair representation of the two teams?
Bull. the Bears are built to play outdoors in cold, unforgiving weather. The Texans are built to play on a fast dry track, preferably indoors. You can take plenty away from the result.
You realize that Houston plays ball-control offense and is 2nd in the NFL in rushing attempts, right? And Foster runs behind a powerful, run-blocking line?
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When did I say that I thought the Bears were great?
I never said that the TOs don't count. In fact, I said that one of Tim Jennings' INTs likely was a result of the weather (the WR fell down). His other one may have been weather-related too since Schaub overshot the WR. The game also wasn't a true representation of the Texans. What is so hard to understand?
If MU played on the slippery court against tOSU and won an ugly, TO-filled game 33-30, would you say that it was a fair representation of the two teams?
You realize that Houston plays ball-control offense and is 2nd in the NFL in rushing attempts, right? And Foster runs behind a powerful, run-blocking line?
You don't have to say they are great. The amount of excuses you make for them implies it directly.
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You don't have to say they are great. The amount of excuses you make for them implies it directly.
Saying that both teams played poorly due in large part to a sloppy field and poor playing conditions is an excuse and implies that I think the Bears are great? You are REALLY reaching there.
After the game Gary Kubiak put an emphasis on how his team found a way to win in those conditions. That's an excellent way to put it. Neither team played the way that they'd prefer to play but Houston found a way to win.
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Like I said....
So are you saying their defense was terrible last night? When you made your original comment about who they've played, it was in response to my comment about how outstanding their defense has been.
They held the Texans, one of the top offenses in the NFL to 13 points.
Like I said...
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So are you saying their defense was terrible last night? When you made your original comment about who they've played, it was in response to my comment about how outstanding their defense has been.
They held the Texans, one of the top offenses in the NFL to 13 points.
Like I said...
But MerritsMustache said that was because of the poor conditions.
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So are you saying their defense was terrible last night? When you made your original comment about who they've played, it was in response to my comment about how outstanding their defense has been.
They held the Texans, one of the top offenses in the NFL to 13 points.
Like I said...
You mean a totally mediocre 17th ranked offense?
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So are you saying their defense was terrible last night? When you made your original comment about who they've played, it was in response to my comment about how outstanding their defense has been.
They held the Texans, one of the top offenses in the NFL to 13 points.
Like I said...
I'm saying that their defense is overrated as shown by what a mediocre offense, built to play on a dry, fast, indoor track did to them yesterday on the Bears field which was far from dry, fast, or indoors. and I think that more offenses will prove the point as the Bears play tougher competition.
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I'm saying that their defense is overrated as shown by what a mediocre offense, built to play on a dry, fast, indoor track did to them yesterday on the Bears field which was far from dry, fast, or indoors. and I think that more offenses will prove the point as the Bears play tougher competition.
You do know the Texans play on grass at Reliant Stadium, right? It's one of the worst surfaces in the league.
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You do know the Texans play on grass at Reliant Stadium, right? It's one of the worst surfaces in the league.
they seem to like it and are able to translate their game to last night's conditions against the choke, cough, awesome Bears, defense.
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You mean a totally mediocre 17th ranked offense?
Give me a break, you're going with yards? Come on man.
Texans 5th in NFL in PPG at 27.8.
If Packer fans can't accept that the Bears have a historically good defense, get real. What a stupid argument.
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I'm saying that their defense is overrated as shown by what a mediocre offense, built to play on a dry, fast, indoor track did to them yesterday on the Bears field which was far from dry, fast, or indoors.
What makes you say this? They don't take a lot of shots, their biggest pass weapon (Andre Johnson) is not a fast/stretch the field kind of guy, and the main weapon on offense (Foster) is used in a power running scheme. Just because they play indoors, does not me they are built to be the greatest show on turf.
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they seem to like it and are able to translate their game to last night's conditions against the choke, cough, awesome Bears, defense.
Funny how that "choke, cough, awesome Bears, defense" is in first place. Strange indeed.
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Give me a break, you're going with yards? Come on man.
Texans 5th in NFL in PPG at 27.8.
If Packer fans can't accept that the Bears have a historically good defense, get real. What a stupid argument.
Of course, since that is what most go with. You want to choose points? Okay, then eliminate all of the defensive and special teams points that get score.
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Funny how that "choke, cough, awesome Bears, defense" is in first place. Strange indeed.
Stay tuned. They have entered the meat of their schedule and tougher challenges are coming. That's all I'm really saying.
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Funny how that "choke, cough, awesome Bears, defense" is in first place. Strange indeed.
Except for the 49ers.
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What makes you say this? They don't take a lot of shots, their biggest pass weapon (Andre Johnson) is not a fast/stretch the field kind of guy, and the main weapon on offense (Foster) is used in a power running scheme. Just because they play indoors, does not me they are built to be the greatest show on turf.
Right. GM's spend millions to build a team without taking into account how best to perform on the field where they play 50% of their games.
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You do know the Texans play on grass at Reliant Stadium, right? It's one of the worst surfaces in the league.
I do remember a lot of slipping in houston when the packers played there, but not close to last night. Also, reliant stadium was ranked 7th best of 18 grass surfaces, soldier field was ranked 17th of 18.
This packer fan does recognize how good the bears defense is, however I think bear fans are over rating their defense a bit as well and lets wait and see who is in first place when it counts.
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Of course, since that is what most go with. You want to choose points? Okay, then eliminate all of the defensive and special teams points that get score.
Except for the 49ers.
Did I miss where the Bears got moved into the NFC West? Actually, wait, with yesterday's tie, the Bears would be in first in the NFC West.
So let's recap what we've learned from a few Packer fans this morning (there's a lot more intelligent Packer fans on this board I won't include here):
-Bears and 49ers are in the same division
-Bears defense sucks
-Texans changed stadium surfaces and now play on turf
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Funny how that "choke, cough, awesome Bears, defense" is in first place. Strange indeed.
Wouldn't you agree that the Texans defense outplayed the Bears in the first half when Cutler was still in the game?
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Did I miss where the Bears got moved into the NFC West? Actually, wait, with yesterday's tie, the Bears would be in first in the NFC West.
So let's recap what we've learned from a few Packer fans this morning (there's a lot more intelligent Packer fans on this board I won't include here):
-Bears and 49ers are in the same division
-Bears defense sucks
-Texans changed stadium surfaces and now play on turf
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I'm sorry, I never saw anywhere in your statement that you were talking about the NFC North only... or even record.
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Did I miss where the Bears got moved into the NFC West? Actually, wait, with yesterday's tie, the Bears would be in first in the NFC West.
So let's recap what we've learned from a few Packer fans this morning (there's a lot more intelligent Packer fans on this board I won't include here):
-Bears and 49ers are in the same division
-Bears defense sucks
-Texans changed stadium surfaces and now play on turf
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indoor type field. my bad. corrected.
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If Packer fans can't accept that the Bears have a historically good defense, get real. What a stupid argument.
I think the Bears have a fantastic defense. And I wouldn't take too much from yesterday's game....sometimes you just lose. One game isn't how you judge a team.
However, the offense still has issues. I don't think the offensive line is all that good. And I really think the playcalling is overly conservative. It's really hard to win championships in today's NFL with that type of offense. (I feel the same way about the 49ers by the way...I feel like I am watching 1980s throwback offenses.)
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Sultan gets it right infinity percent.
Their offense was beyond poor last night. Line/play calling are major issues. While terrinle last night, if Cutler is out for a prolonged period, they're in worse trouble.
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Dish, there was one series in particular that I thought was poor. Down by seven, they finally allowed Campbell to throw the ball deep to Marshall...first and goal on the ten.
Run up the middle...run up the middle....roll out to the right. Field goal.
I mean come on. I know he's the back up quarterback, but you don't put him in a position to succeed if you allow him to throw the ball once, and then take away half the field. Too conservative at the wrong time.
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Sultan gets it right infinity percent.
Their offense was beyond poor last night. Line/play calling are major issues. While terrinle last night, if Cutler is out for a prolonged period, they're in worse trouble.
Fans are funny, when someone agrees with you they are correct "infinity percent" when they do not agree with you they do not know what they are talking about. I think you are knowledgeable, but your bias slants your analysis like it does all of us. When the Packers were 2 and 3 you basically said they were dead in the water now they are 6 and 3 and one game behind the bears having already beat them once.
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Fans are funny, when someone agrees with you they are correct "infinity percent" when they do not agree with you they do not know what they are talking about. I think you are knowledgeable, but your bias slants your analysis like it does all of us. When the Packers were 2 and 3 you basically said they were dead in the water now they are 6 and 3 and one game behind the bears having already beat them once.
For the record, I was agreeing with Sultan. How someone can argue the Bears defense is no good is laughable. If a Bears fan came on here and said the Packers passing game sucked, I'd rip the guy to shreds.
At 2-3, the Packers looked dead in the water, they absolutely did. The second half of the Colts game said it all, they were flat out struggling at that point.
Packers, to their credit, have started to right the ship. I actually think the lose of Jennings helped their offense, I really do. They are now a playoff team. I said it on this board, because I believe it, Cobb is on the verge of being a superstar, I love his game. On offense, he's what Hester should have been. Hester is not even close to Cobb.
Packers have scabs with their offensive line and poor running game. Come playoff time though, there's a couple of NFC teams that play better on the road, I think both the Packers and Giants are better road teams than home teams, I firmly believe that. If the Pack don't win the division and have to go on the road, they'll be tough to deal with.
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Dish, there was one series in particular that I thought was poor. Down by seven, they finally allowed Campbell to throw the ball deep to Marshall...first and goal on the ten.
Run up the middle...run up the middle....roll out to the right. Field goal.
I mean come on. I know he's the back up quarterback, but you don't put him in a position to succeed if you allow him to throw the ball once, and then take away half the field. Too conservative at the wrong time.
Tice's play calling around the goal line has not been his strength. A couple weeks ago (think it was Carolina), they had first and goal at the five. Pass, pass, pass.
What's really hurting Tice is his inability to be creative with Forte and Bush. Martz (having had Faulk), had ideas to use Forte effecitvely.
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For the record, I was agreeing with Sultan. How someone can argue the Bears defense is no good is laughable. If a Bears fan came on here and said the Packers passing game sucked, I'd rip the guy to shreds.
At 2-3, the Packers looked dead in the water, they absolutely did. The second half of the Colts game said it all, they were flat out struggling at that point.
Packers, to their credit, have started to right the ship. I actually think the lose of Jennings helped their offense, I really do. They are now a playoff team. I said it on this board, because I believe it, Cobb is on the verge of being a superstar, I love his game. On offense, he's what Hester should have been. Hester is not even close to Cobb.
Packers have scabs with their offensive line and poor running game. Come playoff time though, there's a couple of NFC teams that play better on the road, I think both the Packers and Giants are better road teams than home teams, I firmly believe that. If the Pack don't win the division and have to go on the road, they'll be tough to deal with.
They always were a playoff team and if not for ref gate would be sitting atop the NFC North where they will soon reside.
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Funny how that "choke, cough, awesome Bears, defense" is in first place. Strange indeed.
The Packers still control their own destiny in the division as well though :)
The Bears defense is really, really good. Possible historically good depending on how the rest of the season goes.
I still think the Bears offense will never be much better than mediocre, despite the presence of a really good wr and a pretty good rb, as long as Cutler plays at this level, which is only average at best (in terms of NFL starters).
That was 2 pretty good, pretty similar teams last night. It's always tough to take too much away from one game, especially in those conditions, although GB did beat both quite handily ;)
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For the record, I was agreeing with Sultan. How someone can argue the Bears defense is no good is laughable. If a Bears fan came on here and said the Packers passing game sucked, I'd rip the guy to shreds.
At 2-3, the Packers looked dead in the water, they absolutely did. The second half of the Colts game said it all, they were flat out struggling at that point.
Packers, to their credit, have started to right the ship. I actually think the lose of Jennings helped their offense, I really do. They are now a playoff team. I said it on this board, because I believe it, Cobb is on the verge of being a superstar, I love his game. On offense, he's what Hester should have been. Hester is not even close to Cobb.
Packers have scabs with their offensive line and poor running game. Come playoff time though, there's a couple of NFC teams that play better on the road, I think both the Packers and Giants are better road teams than home teams, I firmly believe that. If the Pack don't win the division and have to go on the road, they'll be tough to deal with.
You and Sultan were both wrong at the time, stating you didn't believe the Pack would right the ship. When you have Rodgers and some of the other people they have, there is just too much talent for that team not to make the playoffs. Packers fans had also seen that same story before in 2010, and we all know the results of that season. The Packers still have a lot of issues, including a ton of injuries, but those predicting doom and gloom when GB was 2-3 were a little quick to pull the trigger. Of course, there is a lot of season left and I could be eating this post for lunch in 8 weeks, but that's why we watch.
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They always were a playoff team and if not for ref gate would be sitting atop the NFC North where they will soon reside.
I'm glad you can be this confident, because I still am not exactly sure about the Packers.
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I'm glad you can be this confident, because I still am not exactly sure about the Packers.
I am. We'll see.
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You and Sultan were both wrong at the time, stating you didn't believe the Pack would right the ship.
I never said that.
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For the record, I was agreeing with Sultan. How someone can argue the Bears defense is no good is laughable. If a Bears fan came on here and said the Packers passing game sucked, I'd rip the guy to shreds.
At 2-3, the Packers looked dead in the water, they absolutely did. The second half of the Colts game said it all, they were flat out struggling at that point.
Packers, to their credit, have started to right the ship. I actually think the lose of Jennings helped their offense, I really do. They are now a playoff team. I said it on this board, because I believe it, Cobb is on the verge of being a superstar, I love his game. On offense, he's what Hester should have been. Hester is not even close to Cobb.
Packers have scabs with their offensive line and poor running game. Come playoff time though, there's a couple of NFC teams that play better on the road, I think both the Packers and Giants are better road teams than home teams, I firmly believe that. If the Pack don't win the division and have to go on the road, they'll be tough to deal with.
For the record, I am one who thinks the Bear defense is good; I do not think they are the second coming of the 85 bears like some do.
I agree with most of what you say above. The Packer offensive line is better than you think. Sitton and Bulaga are above average to near pro bowl players, Saturday and Lang are serviceable and Newhouse is still improving. The packers run game would be better if they committed to it, but that is not McCarthy’s philosophy. Run attempts are as important as run yards in their mind. They would rather use a short passing game to serve as their run game. Lack of running game has been a criticism of Packer teams under the west coast offense for years; it is not what they do especially under McCarthy.
The Bears are formidable especially the defense. I think the number of turnovers they get will come back to the mean and they will lose some games against better competition. I cannot see a Cutler led team winning the super bowl.
As far as your bias, how can someone with Ditka for an avatar be unbiased?
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For the record, I am one who thinks the Bear defense is good; I do not think they are the second coming of the 85 bears like some do.
I agree with most of what you say above. The Packer offensive line is better than you think. Sitton and Bulaga are above average to near pro bowl players, Saturday and Lang are serviceable and Newhouse is still improving. The packers run game would be better if they committed to it, but that is not McCarthy’s philosophy. Run attempts are as important as run yards in their mind. They would rather use a short passing game to serve as their run game. Lack of running game has been a criticism of Packer teams under the west coast offense for years; it is not what they do especially under McCarthy.
The Bears are formidable especially the defense. I think the number of turnovers they get will come back to the mean and they will lose some games against better competition. I cannot see a Cutler led team winning the super bowl.
As far as your bias, how can someone with Ditka for an avatar be unbiased?
I agree with this. I don't think I ever said the Bears defense wasn't good. It is easily a top 5 defense.
Though, I don't subscribe to the opinion that Bulaga is any good. He is average at best. The line is below average. They can pass block alright, but they can't run block at all.
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For the record, I am one who thinks the Bear defense is good; I do not think they are the second coming of the 85 bears like some do.
I agree with most of what you say above. The Packer offensive line is better than you think. Sitton and Bulaga are above average to near pro bowl players, Saturday and Lang are serviceable and Newhouse is still improving. The packers run game would be better if they committed to it, but that is not McCarthy’s philosophy. Run attempts are as important as run yards in their mind. They would rather use a short passing game to serve as their run game. Lack of running game has been a criticism of Packer teams under the west coast offense for years; it is not what they do especially under McCarthy.
The Bears are formidable especially the defense. I think the number of turnovers they get will come back to the mean and they will lose some games against better competition. I cannot see a Cutler led team winning the super bowl.
As far as your bias, how can someone with Ditka for an avatar be unbiased?
The Ditka avatar is actually a joke. I used to work for the Bears (not that it matters), and met Ditka a few times. He's nice enough, but a meatball who's played the part to a tee, and it's made him millions of dollars. I use the Ditka avatar because more than anything how fake tan he is in that picture. It's not an endorsement of the guy per se.
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Who's been more disappointing this year, Finley or Carimi?
I'd say Carimi, because the Bears need him to be good/great. Finley had shown flashes of greatness, but the Pack can get by without him.
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Has Carimi been injured?
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He's coming off knee surgery from a year ago, but has stated he is 100% now.
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He's coming off knee surgery from a year ago, but has stated he is 100% now.
I hope he's lying.
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Finley has been a mess. I haven't seen any flashes of greatness this year. He drops most everything that hits him in the hands.
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Finley has been a mess. I haven't seen any flashes of greatness this year. He drops most everything that hits him in the hands.
As a Lions fan, exposed to plenty of players whose mental abilities never caught up with their physical talents, I have loved watching every snap that Finley plays. He is so far removed from the humbleness and "act like you've been there before" attitude that makes the Packers franchise great. For what you packers fans view as his "spontaneous combustion" you must have not been paying attention to what he's really like: a clown who legitimately thinks he's the greatest TE of all time and is too arrogant and straight up stupid to ever admit his own mistakes.
I would be hard pressed to think of a player in the NFL that I respect less than Finley
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I don't think many Packer fans feel very positive about Jermichael Finley.
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Bulaga out for the season.
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This is as much fun as listening to Chicago sports radio after a loss.
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This is as much fun as listening to Chicago sports radio after a loss.
that IS alot of fun! (for Packer fans)
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that IS alot of fun! (for Packer fans)
The only time I listen to Chicago radio is after a Bear loss. Very entertaining, even more so after a defeat at the hands of the packers. Me Likey.
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I like listening to the Wisconsin sports radio channels after a Packers loss. Hilarious.
You see what I did up there? It's funny right...
unnatural carnal knowledgeing packer fans.
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I'm glad you can be this confident, because I still am not exactly sure about the Packers.
Sorry, you said how much more impressive they were 2 years ago through 5 games than they were this year and that they had much more significant weaknesses this year than they did then. That was 4 straight wins ago. We'll see about the next 7 games, but so far I feel pretty good about what I said then. Injuries are a concern right now no doubt, but I'll take my chances with Rodgers and Matthews (hopefully he's back soon).
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As a Lions fan, exposed to plenty of players whose mental abilities never caught up with their physical talents, I have loved watching every snap that Finley plays. He is so far removed from the humbleness and "act like you've been there before" attitude that makes the Packers franchise great. For what you packers fans view as his "spontaneous combustion" you must have not been paying attention to what he's really like: a clown who legitimately thinks he's the greatest TE of all time and is too arrogant and straight up stupid to ever admit his own mistakes.
I would be hard pressed to think of a player in the NFL that I respect less than Finley
Please don't pretend like we enjoy his childish antics. Its all fine if he is playing well, but to get up from every 4th pass and dance around... he is a clown.
I'm going to catch flack for this one... but the same goes for Donald Driver. Whew, I feel better, I've been wanting to get that off my chest for years.
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Please don't pretend like we enjoy his childish antics. Its all fine if he is playing well, but to get up from every 4th pass and dance around... he is a clown.
I'm going to catch flack for this one... but the same goes for Donald Driver. Whew, I feel better, I've been wanting to get that off my chance for years.
i agree with you somewhat about Driver so you are not alone. The difference is that Driver has actually done something in the NFL and dosen't spout his mouth off. I hope like hell the packers part ways with finley after the season, not worth the headache
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For the record, I was agreeing with Sultan. How someone can argue the Bears defense is no good is laughable. If a Bears fan came on here and said the Packers passing game sucked, I'd rip the guy to shreds.
At 2-3, the Packers looked dead in the water, they absolutely did. The second half of the Colts game said it all, they were flat out struggling at that point.
Packers, to their credit, have started to right the ship. I actually think the lose of Jennings helped their offense, I really do. They are now a playoff team. I said it on this board, because I believe it, Cobb is on the verge of being a superstar, I love his game. On offense, he's what Hester should have been. Hester is not even close to Cobb.
Packers have scabs with their offensive line and poor running game. Come playoff time though, there's a couple of NFC teams that play better on the road, I think both the Packers and Giants are better road teams than home teams, I firmly believe that. If the Pack don't win the division and have to go on the road, they'll be tough to deal with.
I think it might've helped to lose Jennings for a while for the reason of seeing just how efficient/valuable Cobb can be (and, to his credit, just how good James Jones really can be...he's having a really great, underrated season), but I disagree that we are better off without him overall. Even with Cobb playing like he is, he isn't a star receiver who you can just throw the ball to when you absolutely need it like Jennings is. Jordy looked like he could be that guy while Jennings was on the field, and still shows flashes of it playing the #1 receiver roll, but he's not nearly as productive/efficient as he was when Jennings was getting all of the attention as the #1 receiver. There are still times, even during this winning streak, where the Packers offense stalls for a number of drives in a row, which rarely happened with Jennings on the field over the past 3 years. I think if Jennings came back this week and really got back into form within the next few weeks, that added dimension would make the Packers passing game insanely scary as opposed to the very, very good that it is right now.
I also disagree that the Packers were ever not a Playoff team. When they were 2-3 (should've been 3-2), were they playing like a Playoff team? No. But it's a 16 game season and did I ever feel like we weren't going to be in the Playoffs? I can honestly say absolutely not. In fact, I have never doubted that the Packers were/are still going to win the NFC North. I really haven't. There's just too much talent, especially offensive, and the defense looks a lot better this year (haven't even compared the numbers, just based on watching them...not that the defense is lights out, but it's serviceable this year unlike last year).
As far as the Cobb/Hester (early in his career) comparison, maybe I am overrating Cobb as a player, but from day 1 he seemed to be more physical than Hester has ever been (not that his physicality is his best trait by any means), and Cobb seems to also be a much better route runner than Hester ever has been. It seems like the only route Hester can run is a fly route. Again, I could be completely wrong on this, but it just seems like Cobb came in as a more polished wideout and Hester just came in as a speed demon.
As far as Jermichael Finley, that guy is the biggest waste of physical talent that I have ever seen. I don't think you could possibly find a bigger headcase who is more delusional about his productivity. As a Packers fan, I have come to just laugh and enjoy the moment when Jermichael drops 3/4 of the passes thrown to him. I could catch 1/2 of the passes he drops. All you have to do with Rodgers throwing you the ball is get your hands out. He'll hit them. Finley can't catch the ball. Friggin headcase...can't wait for DJ Williams to be the starter next year.
And as far as the Bears defense and whether they are a good team, it's a silly argument. The Bears have played 9 teams and won 7 games. The Packers have played 9 teams and won 6 games (well, really 7, but officially 6). The Bears are a good team. The Bears are led by their defense, which is very good. I DO agree that they are an overrated defense, but that does not mean I don't think they have a great defense. Why do I think they are overrated? I think that because I don't think they are as good as their numbers suggest, and I don't look at the Bears defense and think of them as a 2000s (or even more recently than that) Baltimore Ravens defense that is going to shut down any and every offense they face. If the Bears had a historically good defense, in my opinion (they will end up with the NUMBERS of a historically good defense, but to me it's about more than numbers), they could be playing the Packers or Patriots or whoever and I would think to myself the Packers/Patriots need to hold the Bears offense to 14 or under or they aren't going to win. I don't feel that way with the Bears. I definitely feel confident that good (not even great) offenses can put up a pretty solid amount (24+) of points on the Bears (although the Packers never seem to do that, no matter how good or bad the Bears defense is). The Bears are a good team. I do not think they are a Super Bowl team (I don't know if I will ever truly fear them with Jay Cutler throwing the ball for them, as Chuck Woodson said, Jay is still Jay), but I do think they're a team that could go to the NFC Championship game behind their defense, especially if they win the Division and have home field advantage.
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As far as the Cobb/Hester (early in his career) comparison, maybe I am overrating Cobb as a player, but from day 1 he seemed to be more physical than Hester has ever been (not that his physicality is his best trait by any means), and Cobb seems to also be a much better route runner than Hester ever has been. It seems like the only route Hester can run is a fly route. Again, I could be completely wrong on this, but it just seems like Cobb came in as a more polished wideout and Hester just came in as a speed demon.
Cobb was a receiver in college...and a very good one. Was first team all SEC ahead of Julio Jones his senior year. Hester was an average college defensive back, but a great returner. There really is no comparison.
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Any word on Cutler?
I've watched the hit he took a bunch of times, and I cannot figure out how he continued to play. I'm not a big fan, but he is one tough caballero.
I'm worried about the Packer's O-line against Suh.
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He is improving, but doubtful to play.
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I think that because I don't think they are as good as their numbers suggest, and I don't look at the Bears defense and think of them as a 2000s (or even more recently than that) Baltimore Ravens defense that is going to shut down any and every offense they face. If the Bears had a historically good defense, in my opinion (they will end up with the NUMBERS of a historically good defense, but to me it's about more than numbers)...
I'm confused here. you don't think they are a historically good defense, even though you think they will end up with historic numbers? and all this in an era when the game is historically biased to the offense?
when i think of historic defenses, i think of mean, tough, hard-hitting teams - ravens in the 2000s, bears in the 80s, etc. however, due to the changing of the rules/game, i think the new definition of historic defenses will be takeaways/scoring. and i think this bears defense does that as well as, if not better than, any defense.
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I'm confused here. you don't think they are a historically good defense, even though you think they will end up with historic numbers? and all this in an era when the game is historically biased to the offense?
when i think of historic defenses, i think of mean, tough, hard-hitting teams - ravens in the 2000s, bears in the 80s, etc. however, due to the changing of the rules/game, i think the new definition of historic defenses will be takeaways/scoring. and i think this bears defense does that as well as, if not better than, any defense.
That's a good point. I think they will end up with historic numbers in takeaway and defensive touchdowns (they basically already have both), but in my opinion they aren't an intimidating, impenetrable defense that nobody can score on, which is what I consider to be a "historically good defense." I don't think offenses see the schedule and are like "crap we have to play the Bears defense" like I feel like offenses used to for the Ravens earlier in the 2000s. Obviously, I don't think teams are celebrating to see the defense coming up on their schedule, either. But like you said, the game is changing and keeping teams off of the scoreboard is harder now than it once was.
Personally, I don't even think this Bear's defense is as good as the one that led them to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman running the offense. Just the fact that Rex Grossman made it to a Super Bowl tells you how good that defense was.
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I'm confused here. you don't think they are a historically good defense, even though you think they will end up with historic numbers? and all this in an era when the game is historically biased to the offense?
when i think of historic defenses, i think of mean, tough, hard-hitting teams - ravens in the 2000s, bears in the 80s, etc. however, due to the changing of the rules/game, i think the new definition of historic defenses will be takeaways/scoring. and i think this bears defense does that as well as, if not better than, any defense.
This is a really great point, but the counterpoint to it is that with more passing there will naturally be more interceptions and turnovers.
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Cutler out for Monday, which is the right decision. Shouldn't be flying across the country coming off a concussion, let alone playing.
Will say that even with Cutler, I think Niners would beat the Bears Monday night. Bears haven't won at Candlestick since '85, never play good there. I see a 13-10 kinda game.
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This is a really great point, but the counterpoint to it is that with more passing there will naturally be more interceptions and turnovers.
I agree with more interceptions, but would it necessarily mean more turnovers overall? Do statistics say that there are more interceptions that occur per passes versus fumbles per run? Theoretically, the number of turnovers could stay the same, or even decrease, seeing as the number of fumbles would decrease with more passing.
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I agree with more interceptions, but would it necessarily mean more turnovers overall? Do statistics say that there are more interceptions that occur per passes versus fumbles per run? Theoretically, the number of turnovers could stay the same, or even decrease, seeing as the number of fumbles would decrease with more passing.
Disagree with you there. Without having the numbers to back it up, I cannot imagine there is a higher percentage of fumbles on running plays than there are of interceptions on passing plays. Also, I would argue that fumbles happen on a higher percentage of pass receptions than they do on running plays. A lot of fumbles occur when a receiver comes down with a ball and gets stripped while turning to run after the catch.
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Thanks for giving that big contract to our kicker Thompson!!
Gotta lock up that mediocre kicker.
Thank god McCarthy is elite.
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Mason Crosby is hopefully renting.
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Mason Crosby is hopefully renting.
Right?
I'm not saying kickers are dime-a-dozen, but...
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Thanks for the memories Crosby. See ya later.
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Thanks for the memories Crosby. See ya later.
Yep.
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And in the end, Rodgers does it. Won a game they had no business winning.
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McCarthy: "We will continue with Mason. We will not blink as far as our commitment to him."
Looks like he isn't leaving...unless McCarthy is blowing smoke up everyone's asses until tomorrow.
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McCarthy: "We will continue with Mason. We will not blink as far as our commitment to him."
Looks like he isn't leaving...unless McCarthy is blowing smoke up everyone's asses until tomorrow.
The last kick was a bit redeeming. I have no problem with kickers trying out on Tuesday though, unless the Packers already tried them out in the last few weeks.
For example, the Bears tried out punters this week with Adam Podlesh on a lukewarm seat. I don't hear about the Packers doing such with the terrible Milwaukee sports radio though.
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Crosby sticks for now. But as coach says, he needs to start hitting is fair share. I'm particularly troubled by kicks under 40 yards. In the NFL those are supposed to be automatic except in a driving rain or snow.
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Where were Nelson and Jones today?
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Where were Nelson and Jones today?
They were playing two deep safeties...which is why they were running...or trying to. I thought they should have sent Finley straight down the middle, but either they never did or it just didnt work.
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What?!? No GB fan outrage over the missed PI call on Hayward in the end zone? Would have set up Detroit with 1st and Goal from the 1 with 4:30 to play. Packers get beat if that call is made. Guess the Seattle call has finally evened out. ;)
Also, Stafford blows.
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What?!? No GB fan outrage over the missed PI call on Hayward in the end zone? Would have set up Detroit with 1st and Goal from the 1 with 4:30 to play. Packers get beat if that call is made. Guess the Seattle call has finally evened out. ;)
Evened out? Not even close to evening out.
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What?!? No GB fan outrage over the missed PI call on Hayward in the end zone? Would have set up Detroit with 1st and Goal from the 1 with 4:30 to play. Packers get beat if that call is made. Guess the Seattle call has finally evened out. ;)
Also, Stafford blows.
Honestly, it was questionable either way. The Detroit player initiated contact and was trying to push off. The defender had position and was looking towards the quarterback.
Yeah he had his arm on him, but if you are looking towards the ball you can do that.
If it had been called PI, I would have been ok with the call, but I'm also ok with it not being called. No one in america thought that Seattle caught that ball except for the ref on the field.
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Beyond that, Detroit got every call to go their way in the game until that call.
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The Detroit offensive line and offensive co-ordinator, Scott Linehan, have combined to turn Matthew Stafford into Joey Harrington.
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end of the day, Packers won. Bears lose tonight and we take back first place in the division! Should be an interesting MNF game with 2 backup QBs leading their teams.
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no matter who loses tonight, it's going to be quite the duel... two of the top defenses vs. Campbell/Kaepernick.
I'm not expecting any offensive records to be set
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no matter who loses tonight, it's going to be quite the duel... two of the top defenses vs. Campbell/Kaepernick.
I'm not expecting any offensive records to be set
As a Bears fan, Kaepernick concerns me more than Alex Smith did.
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As a Bears fan, Kaepernick concerns me more than Alex Smith did.
Ruh row.
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As a Bears fan, Kaepernick concerns me more than Alex Smith did.
Talented QB without much on film. I was wishing Smith would play.
Could be a long night...or an early one for me.
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Lot of bad tonight, but my god is Gabe Carimi awful, just awful. No stance, no push, nothing. Horrendously poor play.
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Lot of bad tonight, but my god is Gabe Carimi awful, just awful. No stance, no push, nothing. Horrendously poor play.
In a game like this, when you stand out for playing poorly, it really says something.
On the bright side, Forte with 20 carries for just the third time this season! Apparently all the Bears need is to get their a$$ kicked to try to establish the run.
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Lot of bad tonight, but my god is Gabe Carimi awful, just awful. No stance, no push, nothing. Horrendously poor play.
I know our OL performance has been awful, but does anyone throw more check-downs than Campbell?
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I know our OL performance has been awful, but does anyone throw more check-downs than Campbell?
That's all he had time for. He wanted to breathe the next day.
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I know our OL performance has been awful, but does anyone throw more check-downs than Campbell?
The Bears looked completely unprepared for that game and the offense lacked any sort of in-game adjustments. It's absolutely inexcusable to give up 5.5 sacks to one player. Give the tackles some help from a RB or TE, run a slant or a draw. Do something, ANYTHING to give your QB a chance to make a play. Honestly, it felt like the 49ers were playing 9 in the box to stop Forte, putting 2 on Marshall and daring anyone else on the Bears' offense to beat them.
Big game against the Vikings on Sunday. I bet Jared Allen can't sleep this week because he's so excited.
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And in the end, Rodgers does it. Won a game they had no business winning.
Not sure what you mean by this. Statistically it was pretty even game. The Packers beat a desperate NFL team on the road. Any win in the NFL is big especially on the road. Not to mention the Packers were without 8 starters. (Bulaga, Benson, Jennings, Matthews, Woodson, Bishop, Perry, DJ Smith)
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That game is exactly why I don't see the Bears defense as a "historic" defense. Say what you want about the lack of video on him, you're playing a quarterback making his first start for a team that is known for their defense, not offense. A historic defense does not give up 32 points and have 0 takeaways in that situation. Again, not saying their defense isn't good, it just isn't one of the best in the history of the game.
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Not comparing apples/apples here, historic in numbers (which is tough to argue because there statistical in nature). Sure, eye test is different.
Kapernick is better than Alex Smith. Fantastic game plan by Harbaugh, he used both the Bears defensive strengths and weakneses against them, brilliantly done.
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Not comparing apples/apples here, historic in numbers (which is tough to argue because there statistical in nature). Sure, eye test is different.
Kapernick is better than Alex Smith. Fantastic game plan by Harbaugh, he used both the Bears defensive strengths and weakneses against them, brilliantly done.
Did you ever hear the quote " There's lies, damn lies and then statistics." Do you also think the batter that goes 7 for 8 in his first two games is going to end up batting .870 for the season. Getting statsitically fat in a couple of games like Tennesee dosen't mean they will end up with historic numbers. Besides you and a few others were saying how "unreal" and awesome the Bears defense is. I didn't hear anything about statistics or eye tests then.
Again, the Bear defense is good maybe damn good, but I think we are starting to see the bloated numbers come back to the mean.
Do you think this game gives the league a blue print on how to beat the Bear defense? The main thing was the Bears came in thinking run and the 49ers were not afraid to pass. the bad thing for the bears is that they couldn't stop the run either.
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Do you think this game gives the league a blue print on how to beat the Bear defense? The main thing was the Bears came in thinking run and the 49ers were not afraid to pass. the bad thing for the bears is that they couldn't stop the run either.
It gives a blueprint but most teams don't have the personnel. Very few NFL teams have an o-line like SF's or a running back like Frank Gore.
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It gives a blueprint but most teams don't have the personnel. Very few NFL teams have an o-line like SF's or a running back like Frank Gore.
True, SF offensive line is very good. I can't figure out how that team can beat up on the Packers and Bears, etc yet get there butt kicked against the giants and vikings, and struggle with the rams and seahawks.
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True, SF offensive line is very good. I can't figure out how that team can beat up on the Packers and Bears, etc yet get there butt kicked against the giants and vikings, and struggle with the rams and seahawks.
4 good running teams in the Giants, Vikes, Rams, Seahawks.
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Bears schedule is their schedule. Packers, Lions, Vikings play a strikingly similar schedule, and I'm sorry, but I didn't see the turnovers, returns for TD's being done in by any of those 3 teams. To have scored that many defensive TD's in a half season's worth of work is historic. To be argued against is flat out wrong.
Harbaugh ran a near flawless game plan. If anyone watched that game in it's entirety last night, there were offensive sets you haven't seen in the NFL in 20 years, it was borderline madness. T Formation, option, 4 TE sets, it was ridiculously clever and executed to near perfection. Bears defensive strengths are creating turnovers and using their team speed to pursue. By using the formations Harbaugh did, he turned the Bears defensive front sideways. All along the Bears weakness on defense is their safeties, who have played above average so far this season. Last night they were terrible. They had to play coverage more, and couldn't tackle (which we knew they could do neither going into the year). Haven't seen an offense execute so well against the Bears D in a while, ton of credit to Niners.
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As a Niner fan, I hope the Bears get Cutler back, the O-Line does a better job (they were blown off the blocks), and the defensive coach plans better.
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Really? Who have they played? Next 4 weeks will tell the tale.
Like I said....
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Like I said....
I hope you don't pull a muscle.
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Like I said....
Cool story, bro.
(http://hypervocal.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/laker-bros.gif)
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Like I said....
Bears went 0-2 vs SF & Hou, GB went 1-1, ho hum.
I still love how the Vikings and Seahawks (both in Chicago) are reincarnated as the '09 Pats.
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Bears schedule is their schedule. Packers, Lions, Vikings play a strikingly similar schedule, and I'm sorry, but I didn't see the turnovers, returns for TD's being done in by any of those 3 teams. To have scored that many defensive TD's in a half season's worth of work is historic. To be argued against is flat out wrong.
I agree with this...but at some point you need to have an offense. And right now the Bears are seeing the results of bad drafts on the offensive side of the ball - in particular the offensive line.
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I agree with this...but at some point you need to have an offense. And right now the Bears are seeing the results of bad drafts on the offensive side of the ball - in particular the offensive line.
No question about it, and their offense, without Cutler, and a consistently poor offensive line, may be their ultimate downfall. If the Bears make the playoffs, they are not beating GB, NYG, or SF, even if it's in Chicago. Even with a stellar defense, those teams rush the passer way too well and all 3 would beat the Bears.
Worst part of the Bears OL is that they've drafted 2 first round picks recently at tackle. Both have failed epicly. It is hard in the NFL to miss that badly on first round offensive tackles, but the Bears have, and are paying the price.
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Cool story, bro.
(http://hypervocal.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/laker-bros.gif)
I too am obsessed with the Lakers bros.
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I too am obsessed with the Lakers bros.
I feel bad for the guy on the right. He's just being normal.
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I feel bad for the guy on the right. He's just being normal.
I feel like the guy on the left is the poster theULTIMATEWarrior.
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I feel like the guy on the left is the poster theULTIMATEWarrior.
Yes, that is his writing personified. What is wrong with his chin?
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So, outside throwing a football around with my nephews (Bears fans) during the second quarter, half time, and early third quarter of the Lions game. They were impressed with how the Lions were playing. I said "Don't worry the Lions will lose. That's a given. What keeps me watching the Lions after 40 years is HOW they are going to lose. That is the entertaining part. " We walked back in just as they were showing replays of the TD run that wasn't but was and they looked at me with huge eyes. "Just wait. The Lions are going to lose in a way that you simply won't believe." When it was all over, they just looked at me with awe in their eyes. I just nodded smugly. I explained that the Lions are competitive, but are always one player, one play, one call away from winning and that is how it has been since I have been watching and the reason I can now watch games with complete detachment. Getting a sincere 'wow' from a know-it-all 15 year old always feels good.
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So, outside throwing a football around with my nephews (Bears fans) during the second quarter, half time, and early third quarter of the Lions game. They were impressed with how the Lions were playing. I said "Don't worry the Lions will lose. That's a given. What keeps me watching the Lions after 40 years is HOW they are going to lose. That is the entertaining part. " We walked back in just as they were showing replays of the TD run that wasn't but was and they looked at me with huge eyes. "Just wait. The Lions are going to lose in a way that you simply won't believe." When it was all over, they just looked at me with awe in their eyes. I just nodded smugly. I explained that the Lions are competitive, but are always one player, one play, one call away from winning and that is how it has been since I have been watching and the reason I can now watch games with complete detachment. Getting a sincere 'wow' from a know-it-all 15 year old always feels good.
The call on Schwartz was pretty lame, and I look for that rule to be gone next season. But yes that was a new and exciting way to lose.
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as a Lions fan who was at the game... I don't think it's ever been more apparent what the NFL's agenda is
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If they find a way to fine Suh for the kick to the nards, then I will believe there is an agenda. I just think it is another example of the karma of the Lions. Like Calvin Johnson's non-touchdown against the Bears a couple of years ago.
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oh yeah, that too... I was mainly referring to the way the NFL tried to make it seem like people from Detroit are Kid Rock fans (which is where I draw the line in the sand)
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as a Lions fan who was at the game... I don't think it's ever been more apparent what the NFL's agenda is
Yes. The NFL apparently forced Detroit to hire a coach who doesn't understand the rules.
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SKOLol vikes
so, i make fun of the vikings and then the bears lose hester, tillman, spencer, louis, and forte. crap.
Add Briggs to the list. If any of those are serious bears could have some big problems
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oh yeah, that too... I was mainly referring to the way the NFL tried to make it seem like people from Detroit are Kid Rock fans (which is where I draw the line in the sand)
I thought people from Detroit were Eminem fans.
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Just like people from Minnesota are Prince fans.
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People from Milwaukee are Violent Femmes fans?
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People from Milwaukee are Violent Femmes fans?
Actually, I work with quite a few people who are WAY too obsessed with The Bodeans.
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Don't forget the Gufs.
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Well the Packers suck.
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This year adds to my belief that Thompson is a good, not great, drafter and hired a phenomenal HC.
However he generally sucks at off-season decisions related to personnel.
Our defense is still swiss cheese.
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This year adds to my belief that Thompson is a good, not great, drafter and hired a phenomenal HC.
However he generally sucks at off-season decisions related to personnel.
Our defense is still swiss cheese.
When you take the 2 best players off of the defensive unit you will typically look pretty bad.
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Funny thing is during our SB run we plugged in guys like Zombo and won. Might be S&C changes when Dave Redding left affecting the defense.
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This year adds to my belief that Thompson is a good, not great, drafter and hired a phenomenal HC.
However he generally sucks at off-season decisions related to personnel.
Our defense is still swiss cheese.
What about the game plan last night gives you the impression that McCarthy is a phenomenal head coach?
Personally, I think the guy is a dolt. The Packers have some of the best offensive weapons in the NFL and managed only 10 points last night. I realize there are injuries, but that is why teams adjust their game plans. Where was the hurry up? Where were the 3 step drops? Where was the play action? McCarthy's play calling is so predictable.
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What about the game plan last night gives you the impression that McCarthy is a phenomenal head coach?
Personally, I think the guy is a dolt. The Packers have some of the best offensive weapons in the NFL and managed only 10 points last night. I realize there are injuries, but that is why teams adjust their game plans. Where was the hurry up? Where were the 3 step drops? Where was the play action? McCarthy's play calling is so predictable.
Play-action doesn't typically work if you don't ever run the ball.
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Funny thing is during our SB run we plugged in guys like Zombo and won. Might be S&C changes when Dave Redding left affecting the defense.
I think one of the most overrated stories of that Super Bowl run was the "overcoming injuries" line. The most important cogs of that defense were not hurt...Woodson, Matthews, Raji, Tramon Williams, Nick Collins...not one missed a game during that year.
So yeah, they plugged in Zombo...but they plugged him in *opposite* Matthews...not *for* Matthews.
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Play-action doesn't typically work if you don't ever run the ball.
26 rushes for 116 yards... 4.5/carry
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What about the game plan last night gives you the impression that McCarthy is a phenomenal head coach?
Personally, I think the guy is a dolt. The Packers have some of the best offensive weapons in the NFL and managed only 10 points last night. I realize there are injuries, but that is why teams adjust their game plans. Where was the hurry up? Where were the 3 step drops? Where was the play action? McCarthy's play calling is so predictable.
Yes. He is clearly a "dolt." He only coordinated the offense last year that "Football Outsiders" called the second best offense in NFL history, lead by a quarterback with a record quarterback rating. I'm sure McCarthy had nothing to do with that though.
And I'm sure that losing its starting RB, top WR and the starting RT had nothing to do with this year's struggles....
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26 rushes for 116 yards... 4.5/carry
In the final possession of the game, GB ran 7 times for 34 yards. Take away those garbage runs and 3 Rodgers scrambles for 22 yards and all of a sudden it's down to 16 runs for 60 yards.
Granted, it was a blow out but 16 rushing attempts in the game's first 55 minutes isn't exactly going to get a D to bite on play-action.
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The Packers don't suck by any means, but last night exposed everything that is wrong with them right now.
Defensively, outside of Matthews and to a lesser extent Woodson, they have no playmakers, no one you need to game plan against. Matthews allows Capers to do stunts, blitz from the opposite side of Matthews, bring a safety up. Without him, overall it's at best an avergage unit.
On offense, against a team that can get after the passer like the Giants, the injury/talent gap on the offensive line has caught up to Green Bay. As the season progresses, the lack of running game is killing them. No threat for a screen, play action, things the Packers offense is typically really good at. Last night was the first time I could recall seeing Rodgers body language say "screw this". What further hurts the Pack is that going max protect goes against their offensive plan. I trust McCarthy will figure a few things out.
If both the Bears and Pack take care of business this coming week (I think both will), it just about wraps up playoff spots for both.
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Yes. He is clearly a "dolt." He only coordinated the offense last year that "Football Outsiders" called the second best offense in NFL history, lead by a quarterback with a record quarterback rating. I'm sure McCarthy had nothing to do with that though.
And I'm sure that losing its starting RB, top WR and the starting RT had nothing to do with this year's struggles....
McCarthey is a damn good coach in more ways than just play calling. This team will rebound and they will fix the problems to the extent they can. He is a master at knowing the psyche of his team and adjusting accordingly.
Having said that, last night was not his best game plan and play calling. For me the turning point was when he opted to kick a 55 yard field goal instead of punting or going for it on fourth down. Yes, I realize that there was plenty of game left, but if they get points there, they are playing with a lead and it may end up a different type of game. At the very least punt and make the giants go the length of the field to score.
A game like this is what the NFL is about. Good teams will get their butts kicked occasionally; (see Houston v G.B, Chicago v S.F. or Giants v S.F) You can’t get too high or too low from week to week. The Packers are still in a good place and can control their own destiny for a division title. They will be getting some key injured players back for the stretch run. The fact that they are 7-4 without their two best defensive players, starting running back, best receiver and starting right tackle is remarkable. Take away the debacle in Seattle and this team is still near the top in the NFC.
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The fact that they are 7-4 without their two best defensive players, starting running back, best receiver and starting right tackle is remarkable.
Here's my question... Is Jennings their best receiver? I know historically and statistically speaking yes, but what does he bring to the table that the current guys don't?
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Yes. He is clearly a "dolt." He only coordinated the offense last year that "Football Outsiders" called the second best offense in NFL history, lead by a quarterback with a record quarterback rating. I'm sure McCarthy had nothing to do with that though.
And I'm sure that losing its starting RB, top WR and the starting RT had nothing to do with this year's struggles....
I guess Joe Philbin (Who is coaching the Dolphins to a decent season) had nothing to do with last year. Come on.
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Here's my question... Is Jennings their best receiver? I know historically and statistically speaking yes, but what does he bring to the table that the current guys don't?
Jennings is by far their best receiver. Hard to judge this year because he hasn't played, but look at the stats from previous years. Plus stats don't tell the whole story. Jennings draws double teams which frees up other receivers. Cobb has come on and is dynamic in a lot of ways, but he is still not the route runner Jennings is.
What jennings brings to the table is he is better at getting open especially in the middle. Jordy and Jones are more deep threat go up and get the ball types where jennings is a very good route runner and speedster. Part of the problem last night (besides not being able to control the pass rush) was that no one was open quickly or open at all. Jennings will also instantly draw a double team, freeing up the other receivers.
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This isn't anti Jennings, I actually think he's a very good receiver. But the Pack is going to let him walk at the end of the year, no questions asked.
A lot has been made of the Bears schedule on this board. I saw the comment that it's remarkable the Packer are 7-4 missing all those guys. Let's look at the combined record of their opponents from their last 4 victories.
14-29-1
I like this Pack team, I still think they are a playoff team. But this whole schedule argument against the Bears has been a joke to no end.
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McCarthey is a damn good coach in more ways than just play calling. This team will rebound and they will fix the problems to the extent they can. He is a master at knowing the psyche of his team and adjusting accordingly.
Having said that, last night was not his best game plan and play calling. For me the turning point was when he opted to kick a 55 yard field goal instead of punting or going for it on fourth down. Yes, I realize that there was plenty of game left, but if they get points there, they are playing with a lead and it may end up a different type of game. At the very least punt and make the giants go the length of the field to score.
I agree completely with this. I don't think he had a good game yesterday, but I don't think there are more than two or three coaches I would rather have than McCarthy. Belicheck....Harbaugh...and????
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I guess Joe Philbin (Who is coaching the Dolphins to a decent season) had nothing to do with last year. Come on.
I think he clearly played a role, but at the end of the day, McCarthy was calling plays last year too.
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The Packers don't suck by any means, but last night exposed everything that is wrong with them right now.
Defensively, outside of Matthews and to a lesser extent Woodson, they have no playmakers, no one you need to game plan against. Matthews allows Capers to do stunts, blitz from the opposite side of Matthews, bring a safety up. Without him, overall it's at best an avergage unit.
On offense, against a team that can get after the passer like the Giants, the injury/talent gap on the offensive line has caught up to Green Bay. As the season progresses, the lack of running game is killing them. No threat for a screen, play action, things the Packers offense is typically really good at. Last night was the first time I could recall seeing Rodgers body language say "screw this". What further hurts the Pack is that going max protect goes against their offensive plan. I trust McCarthy will figure a few things out.
If both the Bears and Pack take care of business this coming week (I think both will), it just about wraps up playoff spots for both.
There is not a single sentence in this post that I disagree with.
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Here's my question... Is Jennings their best receiver? I know historically and statistically speaking yes, but what does he bring to the table that the current guys don't?
Jennings is the best route runner out of the receivers. Jordy has the best forward speed (Cobb may disagree). Cobb is the best all-around athlete. Jones is a poor man's Jennings.
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This isn't anti Jennings, I actually think he's a very good receiver. But the Pack is going to let him walk at the end of the year, no questions asked.
A lot has been made of the Bears schedule on this board. I saw the comment that it's remarkable the Packer are 7-4 missing all those guys. Let's look at the combined record of their opponents from their last 4 victories.
14-29-1
I like this Pack team, I still think they are a playoff team. But this whole schedule argument against the Bears has been a joke to no end.
If it has been a joke for the bears, why do you bring it up for the packers.
The Packers may or may not let Jennings go, probably, but it will have to play out. Thompson doesn't like paying guys on the wrong side of 30 and they have Cobb improving to eventually take that role. I do not think he is quite there yet. The Packers have some other high priced free agents that are younger that they would rather sign first in my opinion. matthews, Raji and Rodgers
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This isn't anti Jennings, I actually think he's a very good receiver. But the Pack is going to let him walk at the end of the year, no questions asked.
A lot has been made of the Bears schedule on this board. I saw the comment that it's remarkable the Packer are 7-4 missing all those guys. Let's look at the combined record of their opponents from their last 4 victories.
14-29-1
I like this Pack team, I still think they are a playoff team. But this whole schedule argument against the Bears has been a joke to no end.
So you think the strength of schedule argument is a joke (which I completely agree with), but then go and use it against the Packers? And not only do you use it against the Packers, but you choose to leave out the first win in their winning streak, which happened to be an absolutely dominating performance AT the team with the best record in the NFL. That is certainly interesting. Talk about picking and choosing...
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If it has been a joke for the bears, why do you bring it up for the packers.
The Packers may or may not let Jennings go, probably, but it will have to play out. Thompson doesn't like paying guys on the wrong side of 30 and they have Cobb improving to eventually take that role. I do not think he is quite there yet. The Packers have some other high priced free agents that are younger that they would rather sign first in my opinion. matthews, Raji and Rodgers
Argument can't be made that the Bears only have a good record because of their weak schedule. I don't think it's remarkable that the Pack are 7-4, and they've played nearly an identical schedule to the Bears. Pack are 7-4 because they have the best QB in the league, one of the best (in my opinion) young receivers in football (Cobb), and an absolute beast on defense in Matthews. They're very, very well coached, disciplined and will be in the playoffs, inspite of injuries. At full strength, and they'll get Matthews/Woodson back soon, they'll be a tough out come January.
There isn't a chance in hell Jennings is back next year. Pure business decision, and it will be the right one.
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So you think the strength of schedule argument is a joke (which I completely agree with), but then go and use it against the Packers? And not only do you use it against the Packers, but you choose to leave out the first win in their winning streak, which happened to be an absolutely dominating performance AT the team with the best record in the NFL. That is certainly interesting. Talk about picking and choosing...
I'm not using it against the Packers, I'm using it to make a point about the Bears. It's been brought up over and over against the Bears. I'm not picking and choosing by any means. Read it within it's context, and the point is against the Bears. Again, Bears and Packers play nearly an identical schedule.
Packers did what they should have done, beat down inferior opponents, just like the Bears did. That's the point.
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There isn't a chance in hell Jennings is back next year. Pure business decision, and it will be the right one.
Totally agree. There is no reason to be pay him. Cobb was meant to replace him.
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I'm not using it against the Packers, I'm using it to make a point about the Bears. It's been brought up over and over against the Bears. I'm not picking and choosing by any means. Read it within it's context, and the point is against the Bears. Again, Bears and Packers play nearly an identical schedule.
Packers did what they should have done, beat down inferior opponents, just like the Bears did. That's the point.
Fair enough. Like I said, I agree. Beat the teams on your schedule. 8-3 is 8-3 whether it is against all 3-8 teams or all 9-1 teams.
I just think it kind of takes away from your argument when you say that the schedule point about the Bears is a joke, and then go and talk about the Packers weak schedule during their winning streak (conveniently minus the win against the 9-1 Texans).
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Totally agree. There is no reason to be pay him. Cobb was meant to replace him.
Depends on the price. Driver will be gone next year too. Do they feel confident that Boykin can make that next step to be the fourth receiver that they clearly need? Jones contract ends after next year...has he lived up to that or can they spend more on Jennings and lock up an undoubtedly superior receiver?
I am not willing to completely close that door on Jennings...and I don't think the Packers are either.
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Fair enough. Like I said, I agree. Beat the teams on your schedule. 8-3 is 8-3 whether it is against all 3-8 teams or all 9-1 teams.
I just think it kind of takes away from your argument when you say that the schedule point about the Bears is a joke, and then go and talk about the Packers weak schedule during their winning streak (conveniently minus the win against the 9-1 Texans).
His point is that Packer fans harping on the Bears' "easy" schedule is a joke because the Packers have basically the same one. What's so hard to understand?
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His point is that Packer fans harping on the Bears' "easy" schedule is a joke because the Packers have basically the same one. What's so hard to understand?
What's hard to understand is how you expect to make the point that the strength of schedule argument is a joke when you just made the argument that, forget the Packers first win in their winning streak, the Packers strength of schedule during their winning streak is a joke. Hard to make the point that pointing out strength or schedule is a joke when you just did exactly that.
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Fair enough. Like I said, I agree. Beat the teams on your schedule. 8-3 is 8-3 whether it is against all 3-8 teams or all 9-1 teams.
I just think it kind of takes away from your argument when you say that the schedule point about the Bears is a joke, and then go and talk about the Packers weak schedule during their winning streak (conveniently minus the win against the 9-1 Texans).
Even if you throw the Texans in there, the combined record is still 24-30-1. That Texans win was one of the most impressive by a team all season. I'm not taking that away from GB by any means.
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Argument can't be made that the Bears only have a good record because of their weak schedule. I don't think it's remarkable that the Pack are 7-4, and they've played nearly an identical schedule to the Bears. Pack are 7-4 because they have the best QB in the league, one of the best (in my opinion) young receivers in football (Cobb), and an absolute beast on defense in Matthews. They're very, very well coached, disciplined and will be in the playoffs, inspite of injuries. At full strength, and they'll get Matthews/Woodson back soon, they'll be a tough out come January.
There isn't a chance in hell Jennings is back next year. Pure business decision, and it will be the right one.
7-4 is remarkable given all that the packers have been through. If the bears were to lose Briggs, Tillman, Peppers, Forte, Marshall, and Carimi I bet they wouldn’t be 7-4. That is equivalent to losing Bishop, Woodson, Matthews, Benson, Jennings, and Bulaga. Not to mention Nick Perry, and DJ Smith. Your Bear bias is shining through again, that’s fine my packer bias comes through as well.
Losing Jennings is not a 100% sure thing. Are you best buds with Ted Thompson or have inside info? If Jennings does not come back and do well after injury or gets injured again, he will not command the contract he is looking for. In that scenario, he may be better taking a one year deal or the packers can sign him on the cheap. Yes, he is probably gone but things will need to play out first.
As for the schedules, of course the packers and bears have similar schedules except the packers are playing a first place schedule. That means Carolina instead of New Orleans, and Dallas instead of Giants. The one game that you can certainly use as a comparison, the packers won and the bears lost.
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His point is that Packer fans harping on the Bears' "easy" schedule is a joke because the Packers have basically the same one. What's so hard to understand?
the schedules were not the same three or four weeks ago when the arguements were being made. Packers played new orleans, san fran, seattle and houston, none of those were on the bears schedule at that point. Yes over the course of a 16 game schedule two teams in the same divison will have similar schedules not hard to figure out.
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On a different note, looking around the NFC (and what scares me as a Bears fan), I want no part of the sixth seed, whoever winds up winning that. I think it'll come down to the Redskins and Bucs in the end. Vikes schedule is too brutal, and without Harvin, their offense struggled yesterday. Seahawks (as much as I loved them preseason) are coming up on a brutal stretch (@ Mia, @ Chi, AZ, @ Buf in Toronto). Three cross country flights in 4 weeks towards the back end of the season is really tough.
I think whoever wins that sixth seed could go to the NFC title game. If Wash/TB beat the Bears or Pack in round 1, I'd take either of them to go into Atlanta and knock off the Falcons. It may end up that being the 5th seed could be the best spot to be in, if it somehow turns into trips to NY and Atl.
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. Seahawks (as much as I loved them preseason) are coming up on a brutal stretch (@ Mia, @ Chi, AZ, @ Buf in Toronto). Three cross country flights in 4 weeks towards the back end of the season is really tough.
And aren't they about to lose 2 of their top DBs for 4 games?
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Hairyworthen, relax a bit there bro. I'm one of the least biased fans out there. This is a message board and my resume doesn't mean a thing, but yes, sometimes I am privy to inside info.
Your argument is silly to no end. The Packers are one of the best coached teams in the league, have the best QB in the game. They have one of the best defensive players in football. They lost Woodson and Matthews during a weak point in their schedule. Injuries are apart of the game.
One might argue Carimi getting benched was a blessing. The Bears lost Forte, they have a very capable back up in Bush. Yesterday the Bears lost Tillman, Forte, Hester, were down to literally five offensive lineman dressed, and Briggs got hurt at the end of the game. Their QB was coming back from a concussion. Was it remarkable to me that the Bears won? Not at all.
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Hairyworthen, relax a bit there bro. I'm one of the least biased fans out there. This is a message board and my resume doesn't mean a thing, but yes, sometimes I am privy to inside info.
Your argument is silly to no end. The Packers are one of the best coached teams in the league, have the best QB in the game. They have one of the best defensive players in football. They lost Woodson and Matthews during a weak point in their schedule. Injuries are apart of the game.
One might argue Carimi getting benched was a blessing. The Bears lost Forte, they have a very capable back up in Bush. Yesterday the Bears lost Tillman, Forte, Hester, were down to literally five offensive lineman dressed, and Briggs got hurt at the end of the game. Their QB was coming back from a concussion. Was it remarkable to me that the Bears won? Not at all.
I am relaxed, I enjoy countering a knowledgeable fan. I just think your opinion is skewed a bit.
I guess we will agree to disagree. The bear’s injuries or any other teams have not been to the extent or, number or length as the packer’s injuries, they just haven’t. How can you compare the injuries the bears had in yesterday’s game, after the game was decided, to what the packers have been having all year. Yes injuries a part of the game, but the teams that succeed particularly in the playoffs are usually the teams that can minimize the injuries. I heard a lot of talk last year about how the bears tanked after cutler went down. Injuries do matter.
And yes the packers won because they have a great coach, and QB. But that is the point, the fact that they have great and deep talent a great coach and QB are remarkable to me. Losing Matthews and Woodson during a weak part of their schedule?? You said earlier that the weak part of the schedule doesn’t matter, they were games on the schedule and they still count, remember.
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Sigh.
Hester, Tillman went out in the 2nd qtr, Forte went out in the 3rd qtr. Let me repeat, they were down to five dressed offensive lineman. Their line is bad enough, their QB just came back from a concussion, and they patchworked that line like no other in the second half. On top of that, they were playing a division opponent, with one of the best rushing ends in the game. Actually, the more I think about it, it was kinda remarkable that they won.
Of course injuries matter, that's where depth comes into play.
I'm not going to re-explain the schedule argument again. The Packers took advantage of their schedule like GOOD teams do. It so happens Woodson/Matthews were out then, and if you're going to lose those guys, much rather have them out vs the Little Sisters of the Poor than against the Giants. If you don't understand that, re-watch last night's game.
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dish,
We can go round and round on this but i won't. The injuries you are talking about are from one game and yes that game was over very early, I am talking about an entire season of injuries.
You are using the schedule arguement to your advantage. When the bears win it dosen't matter who is on the schedule, when the packers win without matthews and woodson it is because they played a weak schedule when they went down. You are contradicting yourself.
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My lord.
Let me say this for the last time. The Packers beat bad teams BECAUSE THEY ARE A GOOD TEAM. Comprehension and context should be simple here. If. You. Are. Going. To. Lose. Matthews. And. Woodson. Best. To. Lose. Them. Against. Bad. Teams.
Packers beat bad teams because they are a good, perhaps very good team. Christ, this isn't hard to understand, and you're a Packer fan!
Also, if the Forte fumble (ruled down by contact) returned for a TD stands, it's a one score game in the third qtr. Hardly over "very early".
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Let me say this for the last time. The Packers beat bad teams BECAUSE THEY ARE A GOOD TEAM. Comprehension and context should be simple here. If. You. Are. Going. To. Lose. Matthews. And. Woodson. Best. To. Lose. Them. Against. Bad. Teams.
Ok, agreed, but that is not what you initially said or implied. You were initially responding to my arguement that the packers wins were remarkable given the injuries, Your arguement was matthews and woodson went downduring a weak part of their schedule contradicting your earlier arguements about schedule.
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More of a general football topic, but still interesting.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/31/is-adderall-becoming-the-new-excuse-for-steroids-users/
It does seem as though there has been a huge uptick in suspensions due to adderall lately. As well, you don't hear nearly as much about actual PED suspensions or even supplements.
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Kinda OT but anyone know
How long was Harlan Prez and did his predecessors have long terms as well? Or have the Pack cycled through prez's pretty good?
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Genius Thompson gives a lucrative contract to the worst kicker in the league.
There was no need for that period.
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Genius Thompson gives a lucrative contract to the worst kicker in the league.
There was no need for that period.
This is the first time you've mentioned this...
It's getting old man. The Packers are quite possibly the best run franchise in the NFL. Ted Thompson is a big part of that.
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Ted Thompson blows. Only good thing he's done is hire Mike McCarthy and done better than avg. in the draft.
We should be on a dynasty run but Thomspon can't get the players. Our secondary still sucks.
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Giving a big deal to Crosby and letting Jenkins walk was almost as dumb as cutting Tauscher for Allen Barbre.
An orangutan could tell that was a dumb move.
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Ted Thompson blows. Only good thing he's done is hire Mike McCarthy and done better than avg. in the draft.
We should be on a dynasty run but Thomspon can't get the players. Our secondary still sucks.
How many GMs would have had the balls to take a quarterback in the first round when you have arguably the best quarterback in NFL history currently as your starting quarterback? That was his first draft pick as the Packers GM. Man, what a horrible move. That's what set the tone for this all. That move led to him signing Mason Crosby to a long term extension.
I can't believe Thompson has put together such a horrible receiving core. What an embarrassment. No talent to help the mediocre quarterback he drafted.
Being down the best pass rusher in the NFL and the best player in our secondary isn't any part of the secondary's problem, it's just that the secondary is awful.
The bolded part is without a doubt the dumbest thing I have ever read. If Thompson can't get the players, then why should the Packers be in the middle of a dynasty run?! Any team in the NFL could say that! Man, if only the Jaguars could get the players, they SHOULD be in the middle of a dynasty run but their GM just can't get the players! Lol. What happens when the Packers get healthy and win their 2nd Super Bowl in 3 years, sandwiched by a 15-1 season? As close to a modern dynasty as you're going to get.
Are you seriously this clueless?!
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How many GMs would have had the balls to take a quarterback in the first round when you have arguably the best quarterback in NFL history currently as your starting quarterback? That was his first draft pick as the Packers GM. Man, what a horrible move. That's what set the tone for this all. That move led to him signing Mason Crosby to a long term extension.
I can't believe Thompson has put together such a horrible receiving core. What an embarrassment. No talent to help the mediocre quarterback he drafted.
Being down the best pass rusher in the NFL and the best player in our secondary isn't any part of the secondary's problem, it's just that the secondary is awful.
The bolded part is without a doubt the dumbest thing I have ever read. If Thompson can't get the players, then why should the Packers be in the middle of a dynasty run?! Any team in the NFL could say that! Man, if only the Jaguars could get the players, they SHOULD be in the middle of a dynasty run but their GM just can't get the players! Lol. What happens when the Packers get healthy and win their 2nd Super Bowl in 3 years, sandwiched by a 15-1 season? As close to a modern dynasty as you're going to get.
Are you seriously this clueless?!
He's dropped the ball big time on defensive personnel. Thompson's defensive moves have kept us from achieving our max potential.
I'm sure there's no move Thomspon could make that you would question. Fact is he's ushered in terrible defense at GB lately and he's now had two years to correct it and he hasn't done it.
He's been terrible in free agency the past five years.
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I was definitely wrong on Christian Ponder.
Dude is a hot mess out there.
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He's dropped the ball big time on defensive personnel. Thompson's defensive moves have kept us from achieving our max potential.
I'm sure there's no move Thomspon could make that you would question. Fact is he's ushered in terrible defense at GB lately and he's now had two years to correct it and he hasn't done it.
He's been terrible in free agency the past five years.
No move he could make that I would question? Giving any kicker the contract he did is a mistake. Crosby was very good up until this year, but you don't give a kicker that much money. I would have liked to have kept Jenkins, but not for the money he was going to get. I trust Ted Thompson, but realize he makes mistakes, just like any other GM makes mistakes. He just makes far less mistakes.
The defense last year was terrible. He addressed it with a great draft this year. Worthy looks like he's going to be a stud, and Hayward already is a stud. Perry showed some potential but obviously you can't really tell what he has yet. McMillan has also shown he can play some.
Ted Thompson is not one to make big time free agent pickups, and I am entirely fine with that. How often do those work out? It's not like the MLB where it's always happening. Look at the Eagles. They were supposed to have the "Dream Team" (thanks, Vince Young) because of all the high profile free agents they picked up, and look at where they are. They're horrible. There is a reason free agency is not the way to build an organization in the NFL. In the MLB and NBA? Absolutely you can. But not in football.
The only worry I have about the Packers is the offensive line at this point. I thought the secondary was going to be an issue going into the year, but with Hayward being as good as he is, when we get Woodson and Shields back we will be above average there. Williams, Hayward, and Sheilds at corner and Woodson and Burnett at safety is a really strong secondary.
What tells me everything I need to know about your knowledge of football is that you can't even realize the biggest problem with our pass defense is the pass rush. Without Matthews in there the secondary has to cover for 8 seconds. That's not an easy thing to do, even if you're the best "shutdown" corner in the league. When Matthews get back I am not worried about the pass defense at all.
Get healthy and figure out the offensive line and the Packers will be as dangerous as anyone come the turn of the new year.
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By the way, the Packers are coming up on 2 years without a loss within the division.
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Packer's secondary is actually pretty good. The lack of a pass rush sans Matthews is the problem. And it was one that Thompson actually addressed in the draft, but then Perry got hurt.
I think it is absolutely silly that people on this board continue to harp on Thompson and/or McCarthy. Not exactly what else you want other than a Super Bowl...followed by a 15-1 season...followed by a 8-4 team that started the season 2-3 and is has been decimated by injuries.
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I'd like a team that hasn't gotten worse. O line, defense.
Frustrating wasting Rodgers and McCarthy in their primes.
TT has done some good things, drafting Rodgers, Matthews, etc. But doing things like giving Crosby 15 mil and not addressing D in free agency is inexcusable imo.
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Down go the Bears!!!
Russel Wilson progressing nicely as qb.
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Packer's secondary is actually pretty good. The lack of a pass rush sans Matthews is the problem. And it was one that Thompson actually addressed in the draft, but then Perry got hurt.
I think it is absolutely silly that people on this board continue to harp on Thompson and/or McCarthy. Not exactly what else you want other than a Super Bowl...followed by a 15-1 season...followed by a 8-4 team that started the season 2-3 and is has been decimated by injuries.
We're completely on the same page.
There are times I get frustrated with McCarthy's playcalling, but overall he is as good as they come at gameplanning and sticking to it.
As far as Thompson, giving Crosby that much money was quesetionable and drafting Justin Harrell in the first round was a very poor decision considering he hadn't played his last year in college due to injury, but other than that I cannot think of many head-scratching decisions at all. He's as good as they come.
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Down go the Bears!!!
Russel Wilson progressing nicely as qb.
How could Thompson not draft Russel Wilson and show Rodgers the door? Gosh, what a terrible GM! If he could just bring in the players we would be on the verge of a dynasty!
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Down go the Bears!!!
Russel Wilson progressing nicely as qb.
Wilson is barely average. The Bears stubbornly refused to put a spy on him and they let him kill them outside of the pocket. Throw in the dropped TD pass by Bennett and the idiotic decision to pass on a sure FG and go for it on 4th down early and the Bears definitely deserved to lose to the lesser-talented Seattle team. Inexcusable home loss.
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How could Thompson not draft Russel Wilson and show Rodgers the door? Gosh, what a terrible GM! If he could just bring in the players we would be on the verge of a dynasty!
Pretty terrible attempt.
But the passive aggressive pithy sarcasm is funny!!!!
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Lions found a way to lose again.
Hey good week for the pack.
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LOL....Detroit just blew another one.
BTW, the Packers four losses were all against teams currently in the playoffs if the season ends today right?
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The Lions did not let me down. I turned on the game for the first time with 4 minutes to go and said to my wife that they were going to have to work to lose it but that I had confidence in them. The order in the universe is preserved.
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LOL....Detroit just blew another one.
BTW, the Packers four losses were all against teams currently in the playoffs if the season ends today right?
Correct - nyg, Indy, sf, sea
Same with the bears - sf, hou, sea, gb
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I'd like a team that hasn't gotten worse. O line, defense.
Frustrating wasting Rodgers and McCarthy in their primes.
TT has done some good things, drafting Rodgers, Matthews, etc. But doing things like giving Crosby 15 mil and not addressing D in free agency is inexcusable imo.
They lost one game last year. Not really any other direction to go.
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Funny how that "choke, cough, awesome Bears, defense" is in first place. Strange indeed.
Like I been sayin'.......
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Like I been sayin'.......
We missed you last week when the Bears won (and coincidentally GB lost).
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We missed you last week when the Bears won (and coincidentally GB lost).
That the NFC North Division leading Packers you are referencing?
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Like I been sayin'.......
Sorry, what you said made no sense.
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Read it again. Has a nice ring to it.
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Ok, read it again. Makes even less sense now. So you like the Bears defense? Weird.
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Read it again. Has a nice ring to it.
You should think about letting it go.
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Really? Who have they played? Next 4 weeks will tell the tale.
1-3, -- interesting tale.
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Ok, read it again. Makes even less sense now. So you like the Bears defense? Weird.
Not sure what you are reading, but here it is: NFC North Division leading Green By Packers. Has a nice ring to it. You are probably used to it.
The Bears "vaunted" defense? The same one that gave up a 97 yard drive in the second half and an 80 yard drive in OT to a rookie QB in a loss on the home turf? Yeah, as a Packer fan, I really love 'em. Thanks Bears!
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Not sure what you are reading, but here it is: NFC North Division leading Green By Packers. Has a nice ring to it. You are probably used to it.
The Bears "vaunted" defense? The same one that gave up a 97 yard drive in the second half and an 80 yard drive in OT to a rookie QB in a loss on the home turf? Yeah, as a Packer fan, I really love 'em. Thanks Bears!
That defense looked old and tired during that last drive. This is what happens when you depend on the defense to get touchdowns to win, it dosent happen all the time.
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That defense looked old and tired during that last drive. This is what happens when you depend on the defense to get touchdowns to win, it dosent happen all the time.
Very true. They allowed a 12-play, 97 yard drive and then basically went back out onto the field and allowed another 12-play drive. Any D is going to look tired when they put themselves in that situation. When a D is already aging and has been carrying the team for 13 weeks, it's going to look even more tired.
There's no doubt in my mind that the Bears are better than Seattle and no doubt in my mind that the Bears deserved to lose to Seattle yesterday. You could see it coming from the failed 4-and-inches on. It reminded me a lot of the Bears-Panthers game except that Seattle is a better team than Carolina. You can get away with a clunker against a bad team. You can't get away with it against a playoff-caliber team.
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Very true. They allowed a 12-play, 97 yard drive and then basically went back out onto the field and allowed another 12-play drive. Any D is going to look tired when they put themselves in that situation. When a D is already aging and has been carrying the team for 13 weeks, it's going to look even more tired.
There's no doubt in my mind that the Bears are better than Seattle and no doubt in my mind that the Bears deserved to lose to Seattle yesterday. You could see it coming from the failed 4-and-inches on. It reminded me a lot of the Bears-Panthers game except that Seattle is a better team than Carolina. You can get away with a clunker against a bad team. You can't get away with it against a playoff-caliber team.
The Bears are much better than Seattle although the Seattle defense is pretty good. I was surprised and delighted that Seattle could beat the bears at home. The Bear offense has to pick it up or they will go down quickly in the playoffs. similiar to what happened to the packers last year with the opposite problem, no defense great offense.
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Not sure what you are reading, but here it is: NFC North Division leading Green By Packers. Has a nice ring to it. You are probably used to it.
Seriously? They are leading because of a head-to-head tiebreaker and both teams are 8-4. Are you really bragging that up?
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The Bears are much better than Seattle although the Seattle defense is pretty good. I was surprised and delighted that Seattle could beat the bears at home. The Bear offense has to pick it up or they will go down quickly in the playoffs. similiar to what happened to the packers last year with the opposite problem, no defense great offense.
I see nothing that is going to suggest that the Bears' offense is going to "pick it up." They have the skill players, but the OL stinks and the guy calling the plays is a meathead. And yeah, the defense is starting to look old. They are going to need a major overhaul on that side of the ball.
That being said, the Bears, Niners, Packers and Giants are all about the same...anywhere from 2-5 in the NFC. I would say GB and Chicago are slightly behind the other two, but as players come back from injury and the football bounces this way and that, you never know.
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Not sure what you are reading, but here it is: NFC North Division leading Green By Packers. Has a nice ring to it. You are probably used to it.
Might be eating crow in a couple of weeks. That will be the game to decide it.
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Not sure what you are reading, but here it is: NFC North Division leading Green By Packers. Has a nice ring to it. You are probably used to it.
The Bears "vaunted" defense? The same one that gave up a 97 yard drive in the second half and an 80 yard drive in OT to a rookie QB in a loss on the home turf? Yeah, as a Packer fan, I really love 'em. Thanks Bears!
Is the parade down Lombardi avenue for the 3/4 of a season NFC North Championship trophy presentation today or tomorrow? Are schools closed today in Green Bay?
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Is the parade down Lombardi avenue for the 3/4 of a season NFC North Championship trophy presentation today or tomorrow? Are schools closed today in Green Bay?
Heh.
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Getting back to football talk, that was what good teams do yesterday, and kudos to the Packers for bouncing back. Good teams get back off the mat and respond. Vikings without Harvin are an entirely different team. Peterson is the heart of that offense, but Harvin balances them. Take one away, and the Vikings will continue to struggle.
Lovie's decision not to kick that FG on 4th and inches from the 15...I'll never understand it. To have been able to go up double digits in the first quarter, at home, momentum completely in your favor, makes no sense. Bears in game coaching yesterday was really really bad. Almost as bad as the Bears tackling.
Let's just say the seat warmer has been turned on in Lovie's car (from what I'm hearing).
For the record, the Pack will win the NFC North.
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Packers just need to get Matthews back...Woodson would help too.
The Packer's OL is just a mess right now. If Lang is done for significant time, I think it's going to be very difficult for them to do much more this year.
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Getting back to football talk, that was what good teams do yesterday, and kudos to the Packers for bouncing back. Good teams get back off the mat and respond. Vikings without Harvin are an entirely different team. Peterson is the heart of that offense, but Harvin balances them. Take one away, and the Vikings will continue to struggle.
That offense other than Peterson is not very good, Harvin or no Harvin. Ponder is the problem, below average QB at best. A few more play making receivers would help though.
Let's just say the seat warmer has been turned on in Lovie's car (from what I'm hearing).
May be true, but not justified in my opinion. The Bears are right there year after year with Lovie. Maybe drafting competent offensive linemen and receivers would help.
For the record, the Pack will win the NFC North.
I am not convinced of this. The way the packers are playing right now I would be happy with 2-2 the rest of the way. The first half against the Vikings was horrible, a better team would have buried them right then.
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Packers just need to get Matthews back...Woodson would help too.
The Packer's OL is just a mess right now. If Lang is done for significant time, I think it's going to be very difficult for them to do much more this year.
Matthews yes, Woodson only from a leadership on the field standpoint not from an actual play standpoint.
I thought Barclay held his own. If Lang does come back they should put him back at guard and let Barclay play right tackle and slide help his way. McCarthy said after the game that Langs injury did not appear serious according to the team doctor.
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Is the parade down Lombardi avenue for the 3/4 of a season NFC North Championship trophy presentation today or tomorrow? Are schools closed today in Green Bay?
Let's just say that there are smiles all around.
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Let's just say that there are smiles all around.
Congrats then, enjoy!
I guess I have to give my "Bears are 8-3, in first place in the NFC North" t-shirt to Goodwill.
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Congrats then, enjoy!
I guess I have to give my "Bears are 8-3, in first place in the NFC North" t-shirt to Goodwill.
No. Keep it. It will be valuable someday.
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I think it is justified. I was having this conversation with a friend after the game last night. Lovie isn't a bad coach, but I do feel he's had a hand in preventing this team as a whole from realizing their full potential over the last few years. Its hard when there is an NFC championship game 2 years ago, but he's shown terrible game management over the years, his personell management has been crappy as well (sure some is on Angelo, but Lovie could easily speak up and complain about the lack of depth overall, or lack of an OL in general), and his promotion of Tice, who has no playcalling experience whatsoever, at any level (unless you count his mediocre period as Viking's HC) and was responsible for the worst performing unit on the team, is a bit ridiculous.
As was mentioned, the defense is rapidly aging, and who knows how long Forte will be good as we've seen how quickly RBs can decline (he's been meh this year, but a large portion of that I feel goes to horrible playcalling). There is a window that is closing. That is what worries me
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Matthews yes, Woodson only from a leadership on the field standpoint not from an actual play standpoint.
I thought Barclay held his own. If Lang does come back they should put him back at guard and let Barclay play right tackle and slide help his way. McCarthy said after the game that Langs injury did not appear serious according to the team doctor.
I thought Barclay did OK. Now give a good team a week or two of tape on the guy and who knows. The coaching staff obviously feels better with Lang at RT and Dietrich-Smith at LG...as poor as he has been.
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I can't decide if Ponder is that bad or if the Vikes receivers are so bad.
Probably a combo of both, which makes solving the problem even tougher.
On some throws, Ponder is accurate and looks great. He's mobile. His teammates appear to respond to him.
But, on other throws (where guys are open), he just flat out misses. I think the mental learning curve can take some time... but physically, he has to be able to make the throws. If he can't do it today, is he suddenly going to be able to do it next week? Next year?
The Vikes receivers are bad. They get a lot of single coverages and they can't get open. I don't know how that's possible. Play action throws to the tight end and the occasional deep shot to a WR should give the vikes 100 yards passing per game. I don't know how they are messing that up.
AP honestly looks better than he ever has. In fact, he might be better now than anybody ever has been. Stupid good.
There is still some hope for Ponder, but his ceiling is Alex Smith... which isn't bad... but the Vikes can't wait 6 seasons for him to get there. He needs to be Alex Smith tomorrow.
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There is still some hope for Ponder, but his ceiling is Alex Smith... which isn't bad... but the Vikes can't wait 6 seasons for him to get there. He needs to be Alex Smith tomorrow.
It he becomes Alex Smith on this Sunday, I don't think they'll be complaining either.
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Very true. They allowed a 12-play, 97 yard drive and then basically went back out onto the field and allowed another 12-play drive. Any D is going to look tired when they put themselves in that situation. When a D is already aging and has been carrying the team for 13 weeks, it's going to look even more tired.
Here's what I don't get... the last few plays of the 97 yard drive (and how are you not more aggressive when the other team is on their own 3 yard line??!) clearly indicated the defense was exhausted, and at the time were playing pretty much "base" D/cover 2. when the seahawks won the toss, russell wilson had to be salivating at playing against that same exhausted team in the "prevent" D. If you're Marinelli/Lovie, how do you not try something uptempo/aggressive in the OT and try throwing coverages/blitzes that you haven't used yet? Wilson was going to the beat the D since they were so tired, why not mix it up and take a chance, rather than getting beaten slowly?
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Here's what I don't get... the last few plays of the 97 yard drive (and how are you not more aggressive when the other team is on their own 3 yard line??!) clearly indicated the defense was exhausted, and at the time were playing pretty much "base" D/cover 2. when the seahawks won the toss, russell wilson had to be salivating at playing against that same exhausted team in the "prevent" D. If you're Marinelli/Lovie, how do you not try something uptempo/aggressive in the OT and try throwing coverages/blitzes that you haven't used yet? Wilson was going to the beat the D since they were so tired, why not mix it up and take a chance, rather than getting beaten slowly?
To be fair to Bears coaches, I don't know if overtime is the time to starting dialing up exotic blitzes.
If a defensive player ends up out of position (which could happen in schemes you don't use often), and the Seashawks score, and everybody is left wondering why the Bears didn't play to their strength, cover 2.
Sort of like a closer in baseball. You don't want to lose the game on a change-up. (unless you are Hoffman). You want to lose going with your best pitch, even if everybody knows it's coming.
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Here's what I don't get... the last few plays of the 97 yard drive (and how are you not more aggressive when the other team is on their own 3 yard line??!) clearly indicated the defense was exhausted, and at the time were playing pretty much "base" D/cover 2. when the seahawks won the toss, russell wilson had to be salivating at playing against that same exhausted team in the "prevent" D. If you're Marinelli/Lovie, how do you not try something uptempo/aggressive in the OT and try throwing coverages/blitzes that you haven't used yet? Wilson was going to the beat the D since they were so tired, why not mix it up and take a chance, rather than getting beaten slowly?
That's not how the Lovie-2 defense works. It's a bend-but-don't break defense that's main objective is to get pressure on the QB with the front 4 and avoid giving up big plays down the field. The D will allow short passes, anticipating little to no YAC. To all of a sudden start blitzing and trying different coverages would be going against the team's strengths. The problem is that it wasn't working. They were getting some pressure, but the ends were not holding contain, which allowed Wilson to scramble and that's what beat them. When a team's basic scheme isn't working, it's tough to deviate from that and just start trying other strategies. If you're going to get beat, get beat doing what you do best. Don't call a rarely-used blitz and risk a blown coverage due to the unfamiliar assignments.
Actually, the Bears did try something new late in the game by having Shea McClellin spy Wilson. The problem is that's not something he's used to doing and not something he did very well. The Bears needed to put someone in the spy position from the beginning of the game. Had McClellin (or whomever) been working on that all week in practice, it likely would have been more effective - not necessarily outcome-altering but the Bears looked completely unprepared to face a scrambling QB (much like they did against SF).
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I would like to have seen the Bears call a timeout (or both) in OT. Defense was clearly gassed. Losing Conte, Jennings, Urlacher wasn't helping either, guys were scrambling. Credit Wilson for understanding the read option was consistently there in the 4th and OT. Rather than spy Wilson, which they did, would like to have seen the DE's play contain and not give up the outside.
Offensively, Cutler/Marshall is becoming a video game. Most of the throws are becoming absurd, it's both fun and scary at the same time.
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I would like to have seen the Bears call a timeout (or both) in OT. Defense was clearly gassed. Losing Conte, Jennings, Urlacher wasn't helping either, guys were scrambling. Credit Wilson for understanding the read option was consistently there in the 4th and OT. Rather than spy Wilson, which they did, would like to have seen the DE's play contain and not give up the outside.
Offensively, Cutler/Marshall is becoming a video game. Most of the throws are becoming absurd, it's both fun and scary at the same time.
injury bug definitely hitting the bears bigtime... conte, jennings, urlacher, briggs, spencer, louis, rachel, jeffrey, hester, bennett, peppers. at least those are the guys i know of. not a good time to be getting injured.
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The Bears defense lives off turnovers, and often those completely change the game.
The downside is that when they don't get turnovers, they can be pretty ordinary.
It's like a team that depends on homeruns to score.
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The Bears defense lives off turnovers, and often those completely change the game.
The downside is that when they don't get turnovers, they can be pretty ordinary.
It's like a team that depends on homeruns to score.
Good analogy.
I've often said that the Bears' D is like a basketball team that heavily relies on the 3. When they're hitting, they look a lot better than they truly are and when they're off, they look a lot worse than they truly are.
If Major Wright hangs onto that late-game INT, the conversation regarding the Bears' D is completely different this week following a hard-fought 14-10 win.
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The Bears defense lives off turnovers, and often those completely change the game.
The downside is that when they don't get turnovers, they can be pretty ordinary.
It's like a team that depends on homeruns to score.
If you look at the Packer's Super Bowl run from a couple years ago, that is exactly how they won games. Pressure the QB...create turnover...get the ball to your offense.
My favorite stat from that post season was that there were three interceptions returned for touchdowns during the entire post-season. All three were by the Packers. Two were completely devastating (Williams v. Atlanta on the last play of the first half...Raji against Bears) while the other gave the Packers a nice cushion early the Super Bowl. (Collins.)
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Now Urlacher is out for 3 weeks with a strained hamstring...lovely.
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Now Urlacher is out for 3 weeks with a strained hamstring...lovely.
With this news, Sunday's game may have been his last in a Bears uniform.
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Starks is now out and likely on the IR as well for Green Bay
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Starks is now out and likely on the IR as well for Green Bay
Packers are bringing back Ryan Grant.
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Packers are bringing back Ryan Grant.
Great. I'm sure he's gotten quicker than last year right?
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Great. I'm sure he's gotten quicker than last year right?
If he can pick up a blitz still, he'll help.
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What?! What happened to Starks? He was starting to look strong
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apparently a knee injury on Sunday
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Probably on that 11:00 minute drive when he flipped over.
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We could be watching the beginning of the end of Lovie and quite possibly the Bears as we know them. I can't see them beating GB next week, they'll beat Az but then have a tough game at Detroit. A 7-1 start with a 2-6 finish and no postseason, after a 7-3 start and 1-5 finish last season, plus a new GM and it's hard to imagine Lovie being back next season (assuming the McCaskey's would pay him his $6M to go away).
On top of that, Urlacher is an UFA and could be done. Peppers (age 32) is owed $13M next season then $14M and $16M the next 2 seasons - he could be released. Tillman (age 31) is owed $8M next season and then becomes a UFA. Briggs (age 32) has a reasonable contract and could have some trade value (3rd and late round pick at best?). The Bears really have no depth on D so it could be a re-build on that side of the ball with the team depending on the offense to win games...with a new offensive coordinator...and an awful o-line. Yikes...
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We could be watching the beginning of the end of Lovie and quite possibly the Bears as we know them. I can't see them beating GB next week, they'll beat Az but then have a tough game at Detroit. A 7-1 start with a 2-6 finish and no postseason, after a 7-3 start and 1-5 finish last season, plus a new GM and it's hard to imagine Lovie being back next season (assuming the McCaskey's would pay him his $6M to go away).
On top of that, Urlacher is an UFA and could be done. Peppers (age 32) is owed $13M next season then $14M and $16M the next 2 seasons - he could be released. Tillman (age 31) is owed $8M next season and then becomes a UFA. Briggs (age 32) has a reasonable contract and could have some trade value (3rd and late round pick at best?). The Bears really have no depth on D so it could be a re-build on that side of the ball with the team depending on the offense to win games...with a new offensive coordinator...and an awful o-line. Yikes...
Merrit
A little over reaction on your part after a loss. I do think their window is closing but the bears will make the playoffs this year and with a good defense who knows. The packers are beat up right now and could lose in Chicago. I do agree they are an aging team that could have some issues going forward
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Merrit
A little over reaction on your part after a loss. I do think their window is closing but the bears will make the playoffs this year and with a good defense who knows. The packers are beat up right now and could lose in Chicago. I do agree they are an aging team that could have some issues going forward
After one loss? How about after 4 losses in 5 weeks, 2 of which were against mediocre teams. The Bears should make the playoffs but they also should have beat Seattle and Minnesota. They're suddenly the 6-seed and basically battling Seattle (8-5 with a win over the Bears) and Washington (7-6, winners of 4 straight with games left against Cle, Phi, Dal) for 2 spots. The playoffs are far from being the sure thing they were a few weeks ago.
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After one loss? How about after 4 losses in 5 weeks, 2 of which were against mediocre teams. The Bears should make the playoffs but they also should have beat Seattle and Minnesota. They're suddenly the 6-seed and basically battling Seattle (8-5 with a win over the Bears) and Washington (7-6, winners of 4 straight with games left against Cle, Phi, Dal) for 2 spots. The playoffs are far from being the sure thing they were a few weeks ago.
I despise the bears but I would be stunned if they did not make the playoffs
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They will not make the playoffs. Pack will come in next week and put perhaps the final nail in the coffin of the Lovie era. Bears have no chance next week, team is on brink of mailing it in. Pack will wrap up the North in Chicago, need help to get a bye (losses to SF and NYG hurt that cause).
Redskins are going to take the sixth seed. I'll go as far to call Skins/Broncos Super Bowl.
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They will not make the playoffs. Pack will come in next week and put perhaps the final nail in the coffin of the Lovie era. Bears have no chance next week, team is on brink of mailing it in. Pack will wrap up the North in Chicago, need help to get a bye (losses to SF and NYG hurt that cause).
Redskins are going to take the sixth seed. I'll go as far to call Skins/Broncos Super Bowl.
You had me until the last sentence. The Redskins only have a shot if RGIII stays healthy... and he has a knee sprain.
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They will not make the playoffs. Pack will come in next week and put perhaps the final nail in the coffin of the Lovie era. Bears have no chance next week, team is on brink of mailing it in. Pack will wrap up the North in Chicago, need help to get a bye (losses to SF and NYG hurt that cause).
Redskins are going to take the sixth seed. I'll go as far to call Skins/Broncos Super Bowl.
2 weeks of Doug Williams footage compliments of NFL Films. Awesome!
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They will not make the playoffs. Pack will come in next week and put perhaps the final nail in the coffin of the Lovie era. Bears have no chance next week, team is on brink of mailing it in. Pack will wrap up the North in Chicago, need help to get a bye (losses to SF and NYG hurt that cause).
Redskins are going to take the sixth seed. I'll go as far to call Skins/Broncos Super Bowl.
Not convinced of that. By the way it is very possible that the Bears miss out on the playoffs because of the debacle in Seattle on Monday night.
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Vikes win in the ugliest game I have seen since 1988.
Gross all around.
Ponder just isn't good. I don' know why. I'll put part of the blame on the receivers because no QB can be that bad on his own.
I'm honestly at a loss. I'd like to say that with better protection and better receivers, he could be serviceable, but I'm just not seeing it.
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A few thoughts...
It's my opinion that unless a miracle happens, the Lovie era is coming to an end. Looking at the last two weeks, a few plays stand out.
-Bennett's TD drop (Angelo giving Bennett a very generous contract extension last season)
-4th & 1 decision to go for it vs Seattle, and poor execution (on Lovie/offense)
-Cutler's awful mechanics on 3rd & 1 yesterday, threw flatfooted. Play call was just as bad as his mechanics.
-Same play (3rd & 1), having Allen in the backfield instead of Bush (I know he was hurt) or Forte. If you're going to throw there, no play action threat at all, none.
-Hester's TD drop ("He's a #1 receiver", per Lovie).
As bad as the Bears offensive line has been (not just this year), only one of those plays (4th & 1), had little bearing on the play of the offensive line. Buck stops with Lovie, and I believe his time is coming to an end.
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A few thoughts...
It's my opinion that unless a miracle happens, the Lovie era is coming to an end.
Nine years is a good run, but I agree with you, looks like his time is coming to an end. I think the Bears need to win 2 of the next 3 to make the playoffs. Any loses would be extremely problematic for Lovie.
Lose to GB: It would represent the 6th straight defeat to the Packers and allow the Packers to clinch the North. For a coach that talked about beating the Pack as his number one priority, that clearly has disappeared.
Lose to Arizona: This would be almost unthinkable as the Cards are right now the worst team in the NFL.
Lose to the Lions: Say the Bears beat the Cards, it could lead to a similar set-up to the ending of the 2008 season (against the Texans) of win and you're in. However, lose, and it would be the second time in the Lovie era where the Bears would have lost a playoff clincher on the last day of the season to a non-playoff team.
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A few thoughts...
It's my opinion that unless a miracle happens, the Lovie era is coming to an end. Looking at the last two weeks, a few plays stand out.
-Bennett's TD drop (Angelo giving Bennett a very generous contract extension last season)
-4th & 1 decision to go for it vs Seattle, and poor execution (on Lovie/offense)
-Cutler's awful mechanics on 3rd & 1 yesterday, threw flatfooted. Play call was just as bad as his mechanics.
-Same play (3rd & 1), having Allen in the backfield instead of Bush (I know he was hurt) or Forte. If you're going to throw there, no play action threat at all, none.
-Hester's TD drop ("He's a #1 receiver", per Lovie).
As bad as the Bears offensive line has been (not just this year), only one of those plays (4th & 1), had little bearing on the play of the offensive line. Buck stops with Lovie, and I believe his time is coming to an end.
Lovie also takes a big part of the blame for having 4 different offensive coordinators in 9 seasons...and it's not like the guys who left were leaving for bigger, better things.
This might be an ideal scenario for Phil Emery. He can bring in his guy as head coach but still has some pretty good pieces already in place from the current regime.
Who knows though? Maybe the Bears will win out and win the Super Bowl! ;)
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A few thoughts...
It's my opinion that unless a miracle happens, the Lovie era is coming to an end. Looking at the last two weeks, a few plays stand out.
-Bennett's TD drop (Angelo giving Bennett a very generous contract extension last season)
-4th & 1 decision to go for it vs Seattle, and poor execution (on Lovie/offense)
-Cutler's awful mechanics on 3rd & 1 yesterday, threw flatfooted. Play call was just as bad as his mechanics.
-Same play (3rd & 1), having Allen in the backfield instead of Bush (I know he was hurt) or Forte. If you're going to throw there, no play action threat at all, none.
-Hester's TD drop ("He's a #1 receiver", per Lovie).
As bad as the Bears offensive line has been (not just this year), only one of those plays (4th & 1), had little bearing on the play of the offensive line. Buck stops with Lovie, and I believe his time is coming to an end.
-Jeffry(sic) had a pretty nice drop in the 4th quarter as well yesterday. That may have changed this discussion had he held on.
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Lovie also takes a big part of the blame for having 4 different offensive coordinators in 9 seasons...and it's not like the guys who left were leaving for bigger, better things.
Good point, I have no idea what Terry Shea and Ron Turner are currently up to. And sadly, in my 20+ years of being a Bears fan, the trio of Cutler, Forte and Marshall are the best skill position players they have had at each respective position and the offense still stinks.
Time for a new direction.
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Good point, I have no idea what Terry Shea and Ron Turner are currently up to. And sadly, in my 20+ years of being a Bears fan, the trio of Cutler, Forte and Marshall are the best skill position players they have had at each respective position and the offense still stinks.
Time for a new direction.
Everybody in the world knows that the Bears offense is basically pitch-and-catch between Cutler and Marshall. Defense are game-planning for it. And yet, Marshall is still putting up ridiculous numbers. Imagine if the offense was somewhat creative and had at least a couple of other decent weapons (TE being the most needed)?? Forcing a defense to not blanket Marshall would allow the Bears to actually score some points.
Edit: Just saw Cam Cameron was fired by the Ravens. Any chance the McCaskeys pick up the phone?
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The football fan in me is really excited for the NFC playoffs. My bad in a previous post, I forgot the Giants lost to the Redskins, and the Packers are really in a prime spot to grab the 2 seed. Can't recall a year I've ever seen where every team that will make the tournament will want to play the 1 seed (Falcons). Which is even funnier because seeds 2-6 right now are in a ton of flux.
If the Niners lose at New England on Sunday, the Seahawks actually control their destiny for the NFC West title (which is amazing to me). Redskins (I realize the Cowboys too) can still win the NFC East. You could have the Niners/Giants wind up as your 5/6 seeds.
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The football fan in me is really excited for the NFC playoffs. My bad in a previous post, I forgot the Giants lost to the Redskins, and the Packers are really in a prime spot to grab the 2 seed. Can't recall a year I've ever seen where every team that will make the tournament will want to play the 1 seed (Falcons). Which is even funnier because seeds 2-6 right now are in a ton of flux.
If the Niners lose at New England on Sunday, the Seahawks actually control their destiny for the NFC West title (which is amazing to me). Redskins (I realize the Cowboys too) can still win the NFC East. You could have the Niners/Giants wind up as your 5/6 seeds.
Should be fun. I do not think the Giants could be the 5 or 6 seed or at least it would be very unlikely. They will need to win the division or they would be out. They have some tough games coming up at Atlanta and at Baltimore. They could miss the playoffs.
I predict Atlanta 1 seed, San Fran 2 seed, Green Bay 3 seed Redskins 4 seed Seattle 5 seed and Bears 6 seed. Which means a Packers v Bears wild card game at Lambeau.
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/282443_544549938906355_1658192948_n.jpg)
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Lose to the Lions: Say the Bears beat the Cards, it could lead to a similar set-up to the ending of the 2008 season (against the Texans) of win and you're in.
It wasn't really win and in. A bunch of stuff needed to go their way, and it just happened to. Not excusing the Bears in any way though. That was one of the most disappointing loses in recent memory.
I think Lovie had a good run, but I am agreeing with much of what is said. Two biggest things I blame on Lovie from recent memory:
1. The revolving door of coordinators, none of which have gotten the job done, esp on offense. That is on him.
2. Hester as a receiver. It has been a disaster since day 1. I know they paid him and needed to justify the payday, but he never let up and it's been tough to watch.
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It wasn't really win and in. A bunch of stuff needed to go their way, and it just happened to. Not excusing the Bears in any way though. That was one of the most disappointing loses in recent memory.
I think Lovie had a good run, but I am agreeing with much of what is said. Two biggest things I blame on Lovie from recent memory:
1. The revolving door of coordinators, none of which have gotten the job done, esp on offense. That is on him.
2. Hester as a receiver. It has been a disaster since day 1. I know they paid him and needed to justify the payday, but he never let up and it's been tough to watch.
Those two points are connected. The Bears had an potentially dangerous offensive threat in Hester but never found a coordinator who knew how to use him. Lining him up a WR (he played cornerback in college and as a rookie) and assuming he'd become a #1 was doomed from the start. On top of that, it clearly had a negative effect on his return game. With some creativity, he could have become a Darren Sproles-type of mismatch - sometimes out of the out of the backfield (though with few actual rushes), sometimes lined-up in the slot, sometimes lined up wide.
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Those two points are connected. The Bears had an potentially dangerous offensive threat in Hester but never found a coordinator who knew how to use him. Lining him up a WR (he played cornerback in college and as a rookie) and assuming he'd become a #1 was doomed from the start. On top of that, it clearly had a negative effect on his return game. With some creativity, he could have become a Darren Sproles-type of mismatch - sometimes out of the out of the backfield (though with few actual rushes), sometimes lined-up in the slot, sometimes lined up wide.
Like the Packers use Cobb?
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Those two points are connected. The Bears had an potentially dangerous offensive threat in Hester but never found a coordinator who knew how to use him. Lining him up a WR (he played cornerback in college and as a rookie) and assuming he'd become a #1 was doomed from the start. On top of that, it clearly had a negative effect on his return game. With some creativity, he could have become a Darren Sproles-type of mismatch - sometimes out of the out of the backfield (though with few actual rushes), sometimes lined-up in the slot, sometimes lined up wide.
Wasn't the knock on Hester not being able to learn routes? I think his play-learning capabilities hampered his development into a Sproles/Cobb like player.
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Wasn't the knock on Hester not being able to learn routes? I think his play-learning capabilities hampered his development into a Sproles/Cobb like player.
Well, that and the dude has brick hands.
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Like the Packers use Cobb?
The Packers use Cobb that way, but Cobb is a much better receiver now than Hester will ever be. He has stepped up this year to be the go to guy as receiver. All the other stuff he does is on top of that.
I do not see cobb as a sproules type. He is first and foremost a reciever that can can give you other dimensions as well.
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Well, that and the dude has brick hands.
(http://thedailyrival.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/little-giants.jpg?w=640)
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The Packers use Cobb that way, but Cobb is a much better receiver now than Hester will ever be. He has stepped up this year to be the go to guy as receiver. All the other stuff he does is on top of that.
I do not see cobb as a sproules type. He is first and foremost a reciever that can can give you other dimensions as well.
Agreed, Percy Harvin and Randall Cobb are totally comparable players. Harvin is just 'injured' all the time.
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The Packers use Cobb that way, but Cobb is a much better receiver now than Hester will ever be. He has stepped up this year to be the go to guy as receiver. All the other stuff he does is on top of that.
I do not see cobb as a sproules type. He is first and foremost a reciever that can can give you other dimensions as well.
I don't disagree. Cobb was also a WR in college. He did almost everything else for UK, but was a WR first and foremost. The Bears tried to force Hester into become a WR as a way to utilize him more.
Hester's two main talents have always been his speed/quickness and his natural ability and instinct to find and hit an opening. The way they used him as a receiver negated most of the latter, which was his unique skill, as there are plenty of guys who can fly. If he can't even be counted on to catch passes when he gets open on post routes, well, then his speed is worthless. Catching swing passes and screens would have been a great way to try and use him effectively, but nope, he was going to be a #1. Sigh...
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Whether you want to compare Hester to Cobb, Harvin, Sproles or someone else, that fact remains that other teams have been able to find a role for play-makers even if it's not as a traditional WR or RB. The Bears failed to do that with Hester.
Yes, he did have some trouble learning the playbook but that's in large part because they called him a #1 receiver and threw the whole playbook at him. The joke was that the Bears made a mistake when they released Musin Muhammed because that meant they needed a new WR to tell Hester where to line up on every play. If the OC had drawn up just 12-15 plays for Hester to learn - whether as the primary option or as a decoy - and gone with just that, it would have (IMO) turned out much better.
A similar example was Mark Anderson. As a rookie, he played primarily in passing situations and had 12 sacks. After that, they tried to make him an every down DE and his production dropped and eventually they released him. Last season, he signed with New England (who knows that they're doing) as a pass rush specialist and registered 10 sacks. This season, he plays with Buffalo who tried to make him an every down DE and, when healthy, he's been a non-factor.
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That was the worst idea I've ever seen. McCarthy, WTF was that? Can't believe it, my god.
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This will not go down as a well coached game. Still stunned by that, thought Pack staff was better than that.
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/282443_544549938906355_1658192948_n.jpg)
Actually, he cheers for just about everyone and is known for it here in So. Cal. He's a USC grad, big Kings, Angels, Lakers, Cubs, Packers, etc, etc, etc, etc, fan.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwpVX8NB4IuI55HTeYvFZzlMfkmBixv6TD6Q6jLkTgcOTXzLp10Q)
(http://mryoder1.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/rise_i_wferrell1_400.jpg)
(http://wepuckny.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/will-ferrell-and-the-stanley-cup-450x293.jpg)
(http://www.trendrabbit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Will-Ferrell-John-C-Reilly-Kiss-At-Lakers-Game-2.jpg)
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Bears deserved to lose anyway, but what a terrible officiating job, disgraceful.
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Bears deserved to lose anyway, but what a terrible officiating job, disgraceful.
Bad calls both ways. The penalties on Jeffery's were correct. The missed facemask on the long pass was pathetic
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Bears deserved to lose anyway, but what a terrible officiating job, disgraceful.
That officiating crew should be removed for the rest of the season. I watched the game with a couple of die-hard GB fans, one of whom said he felt embarassed after the third Jeffrey OPI followed by the no call on Shields. It was about as one-sided as officiating can get.
Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day, the Packers are a better team than the Bears and deserved to win the division, but the Bears also deserved a fair shot in today's game and they didn't get one.
EDIT: I'd also like to add that the Bears' coaching staff appeared equally as inept as the officials. The Lovie Era needs to end.
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That was the worst idea I've ever seen. McCarthy, WTF was that? Can't believe it, my god.
Embarrassingly stupid.
Wonder if Slocum had clearance to try that in a game like this.
No o-line, too many injuries, valiant effort by the Bears.
Officiating was sucky, so was Crosby.
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That officiating crew should be removed for the rest of the season. I watched the game with a couple of die-hard GB fans, one of whom said he felt embarassed after the third Jeffrey OPI followed by the no call on Shields. It was about as one-sided as officiating can get.
Don't get me wrong, at the end of the day, the Packers are a better team than the Bears and deserved to win the division, but the Bears also deserved a fair shot in today's game and they didn't get one.
EDIT: I'd also like to add that the Bears' coaching staff appeared equally as inept as the officials. The Lovie Era needs to end.
Bullcrap, there were missed/bad calls on both sides. How about the play where Jeffrey pulled down Shields by his facemask and they called Shields for PI?
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If Jeffery wants to push off he should learn how to do it without extending his arms.
Brandon Marshall sure did a lot of nothing after the touchdown.
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Embarrassingly stupid.
Wonder if Slocum had clearance to try that in a game like this.
No o-line, too many injuries, valiant effort by the Bears.
Officiating was sucky, so was Crosby.
Terrible terrible call on the punt return. I want to hear the rationale on that
no excuse for that
Crosby needs to be gone
valiant effort by the bears? The packers should have won by 3 scores. Two missed short field goals an iladvised trick play and a fumble on a drive that would have ended the game if they score. The packers did more to keep the game close than anything the bears did
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Bullcrap, there were missed/bad calls on both sides. How about the play where Jeffrey pulled down Shields by his facemask and they called Shields for PI?
Actually, they called illegal contact - a 5-yd penalty - and yes, that was a bad call. However, two of the three OPIs, if not all three, were wrong. The no-call on Shields was awful. The personal foul on Peppers was a joke. Cutler got hit in the facemask after a throw early in the game and the ref wasn't even looking. The PI call on Conte in the 2nd quarter was bad. Aikman called out these same things so it's not like I'm imagining them.
Kudos to the Packers on winning the division.
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If Jeffery wants to push off he should learn how to do it without extending his arms.
Brandon Marshall sure did a lot of nothing after the touchdown.
Because the Packers smartly switched to double and triple teaming him, which left Jeffrey open to make plays, which he did, only to have them taken away from him.
Honestly, it's comical that a Bears' player besides Marshall actually stepped up and made plays but didn't get credit for them. That's how the second half of the season has gone. What can you do?
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Congrats to Green Bay, well deserved title , got up off the mat after early season struggles. Will be tough out in Jan, especially if they get a competent kicker.
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Actually, they called illegal contact - a 5-yd penalty - and yes, that was a bad call. However, two of the three OPIs, if not all three, were wrong. The no-call on Shields was awful. The personal foul on Peppers was a joke. Cutler got hit in the facemask after a throw early in the game and the ref wasn't even looking. The PI call on Conte in the 2nd quarter was bad. Aikman called out these same things so it's not like I'm imagining them.
Kudos to the Packers on winning the division.
Corect on illegal contact, still an absolute joke.
Peppers launched himself--that's why he got called, which Perreria (sp) agreed with.
Raji's arm was pushed into Cutler's facemask by a Bears lineman if you watched the replay.
If you think Conte shouldn't have been called then there is no way Shields should have been. Conte impeded Finley's attempt to get to the ball, Shields did not.
The Jeffrey PI calls were close, but if you get called once, might be wise to stop doing it.
When you get manhandled as bad as the Bears did, the refs would be way down on my list of complaints.
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Skol Vikings!
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Corect on illegal contact, still an absolute joke.
Peppers launched himself--that's why he got called, which Perreria (sp) agreed with.
Raji's arm was pushed into Cutler's facemask by a Bears lineman if you watched the replay.
If you think Conte shouldn't have been called then there is no way Shields should have been. Conte impeded Finley's attempt to get to the ball, Shields did not.
The Jeffrey PI calls were close, but if you get called once, might be wise to stop doing it.
When you get manhandled as bad as the Bears did, the refs would be way down on my list of complaints.
I wouldn't say they were manhandled, they were more inept than anything else.
Shields HAS to be flagged there, you can not call that on Conte and not on Shields. Absolute joke, no matter what team you root for, can not argue against it.
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Skol Vikings!
Yawn. The Packers have won 12 straight regular season divisional games (2 full seasons' worth).
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Actually, they called illegal contact - a 5-yd penalty - and yes, that was a bad call. However, two of the three OPIs, if not all three, were wrong. The no-call on Shields was awful. The personal foul on Peppers was a joke. Cutler got hit in the facemask after a throw early in the game and the ref wasn't even looking. The PI call on Conte in the 2nd quarter was bad. Aikman called out these same things so it's not like I'm imagining them.
Kudos to the Packers on winning the division.
You are wrong on the opi calls. Go back and look, he pushed off and gained advantage each time, worse than that he extended his arms so it was an easy call to make.
The call on shields was pi no doubt, but that call is easy to miss and that type of thing goes on all the time
I agree with you on the peppers call, but that same play gets penalized every week.
Lovie should be gone. For a game as important as that was to the bears that was a bad perfformance. Some of the play calling was hard to understand not that some of mm's calls were that great.
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If I'm a bears fan, I'll be more pissed at how they quit at the end of both halves. They could have easily gotten a fg with 30 seconds and a To. That last series by cutler was pathetic. Yeah it's basically over but you got to keep fight and rushing the guys to the line.
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The Bears' o line is keep them from winning. Pretty sad group after beaten like a dog on rag doll crime against 49ers.
Jeffrey needs to push to create space. Glad some refs are tightening up on wr's. Even though offense sells.
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The Bears' o line is keep them from winning. Pretty sad group after beaten like a dog on rag doll crime against 49ers.
Jeffrey needs to push to create space. Glad some refs are tightening up on wr's. Even though offense sells.
Didn't even think their O Line played that bad today. Jay Cutler is their biggest problem, in my opinion. He makes some horrible throws and his body language is absolutely awful after every one of them. Throw it right to the defender who is just standing there alone in zone coverage? Yeah let's get to the sideline and start throwing our hands up, screaming, and slamming things around. Then when the Packers score, continue to do the same thing. He's a freaking baby when he needs to be the leader of the team. It is awesome to watch as an opposing fan, because when your quarterback is acting like that there is no chance that team is going to win games.
As far as Jeffries I'm not sure how the Bears fans can complain about the offensive pass interference calls. MAYBE the second one called against him wasn't much, but the other two are as obvious as it gets for the refs. Learn how to run a route to create space rather than blatantly push off the defender and you might make some catches. The touchdown and the one on the last drive were no brainers for refs to call. The Bears fans do have a right to be upset with the no-call on Shields. Definitely a missed pass interference. But the pass interference they did call on Shields was another absolutely blatant offensive pass interference (and face mask) on Jeffries. So overall the calls pretty much even out throughout an entire game.
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Didn't even think their O Line played that bad today. Jay Cutler is their biggest problem, in my opinion. He makes some horrible throws and his body language is absolutely awful after every one of them. Throw it right to the defender who is just standing there alone in zone coverage? Yeah let's get to the sideline and start throwing our hands up, screaming, and slamming things around. Then when the Packers score, continue to do the same thing. He's a freaking baby when he needs to be the leader of the team. It is awesome to watch as an opposing fan, because when your quarterback is acting like that there is no chance that team is going to win games.
Hester ran the wrong route. Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Eli, Favre, Elway, Montana, Unitas, whatever QB you want to name gets upset when the WR runs the wrong route and it causes an easy INT. It's easy to pick on Cutler because, quite frankly, he's a surly guy but his reaction to that play was not very different than most other QBs. A huge reason why Cutler throws to Marshall so often is because he's just about the only guy he trusts to be in the right place on the field...often because he's the only guy who is in the right place on the field.
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Hester ran the wrong route. Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Eli, Favre, Elway, Montana, Unitas, whatever QB you want to name gets upset when the WR runs the wrong route and it causes an easy INT. It's easy to pick on Cutler because, quite frankly, he's a surly guy but his reaction to that play was not very different than most other QBs. A huge reason why Cutler throws to Marshall so often is because he's just about the only guy he trusts to be in the right place on the field...often because he's the only guy who is in the right place on the field.
Agreed, I meant to add in that most quarterbacks will get on someone when they aren't on the right page, but then they move on. Cutler continues to pout and whine on the bench for the entire defensive series rather than look at pictures from the drive or get on the phone with and talk to the coordinator like the elite quarterbacks do, and then he throws his towel around when the other team scores. It's just horrible leadership.
Also, I'm not sure that he ran the wrong route. It looked like he completed his route and he was entirely covered so Hester turned to go up field while Cutler was buying time but instead of buying time Cutler just threw the ball right into Hayward's numbers.
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Is there a dumber argument than "body language" for/against a NFL player? No one would care how Cutler is acting if he were 13-1 and a pro bowler. If a player was 1-13 but was a great teammate and leader, fans/media would still be calling for his head, regardless of "body language." Fact is, only thing that matters is winning and losing and he's losing. Maybe not entirely his fault, but there are certainly times when he's not helping his own cause.
Bill Simmons said it best a few weeks ago when he pointed out that the Bears were this year's "good" bad team - they beat the bad teams on the schedule but wouldn't win a game against the good teams.
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Is there a dumber argument than "body language" for/against a NFL player? No one would care how Cutler is acting if he were 13-1 and a pro bowler. If a player was 1-13 but was a great teammate and leader, fans/media would still be calling for his head, regardless of "body language." Fact is, only thing that matters is winning and losing and he's losing. Maybe not entirely his fault, but there are certainly times when he's not helping his own cause.
Bill Simmons said it best a few weeks ago when he pointed out that the Bears were this year's "good" bad team - they beat the bad teams on the schedule but wouldn't win a game against the good teams.
Typically, players who have bad body language aren't winning, and those who have good body language are winning. Jay is an easy target because he wears his emotions on his sleeve.
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Bill Simmons said it best a few weeks ago when he pointed out that the Bears were this year's "good" bad team - they beat the bad teams on the schedule but wouldn't win a game against the good teams.
While the Bears have definitely come up small in some big games this season, they beat Indy, Minnesota and Dallas, all of whom could make the playoffs (or, admittedly could miss them). Are any of them serious contenders? No, but neither are 85-90% of the teams in the league.
If you really think about it, the Packers beat Houston but other than that, what playoff teams have they beat? Minnesota and the Bears are maybe's (granted, that would be 3-4 wins if both teams make it, but that isn't likely). GB's losses are to SF, Seattle, Indy, and the Giants (all potential playoff teams). There are no other playoff contenders on their schedule. That's not a knock on the Packers, that's how these things work.
Denver has won 8 straight games but only 2 of them have been against potential playoff teams - Cincinnati and a suddenly sputtering Baltimore team.
Even Simmons' Patriots only have 3 wins against potential playoff teams - Houston, Denver and Indy. NE has lost to SF, Baltimore, Seattle and Arizona. That's a 3-3 record against playoff teams and 7 wins against "bad" teams with 1 loss to a bad team thrown in.
62.5% of NFL teams miss the playoffs which means that, statistically speaking, 10 of a team's 16 games would be against non-playoff teams. When good teams get beat, who do they typically lose to? Other good teams.
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While the Bears have definitely come up small in some big games this season, they beat Indy, Minnesota and Dallas, all of whom could make the playoffs (or, admittedly could miss them). Are any of them serious contenders? No, but neither are 85-90% of the teams in the league.
If you really think about it, the Packers beat Houston but other than that, what playoff teams have they beat? Minnesota and the Bears are maybe's (granted, that would be 3-4 wins if both teams make it, but that isn't likely). GB's losses are to SF, Seattle, Indy, and the Giants (all potential playoff teams). There are no other playoff contenders on their schedule. That's not a knock on the Packers, that's how these things work.
Denver has won 8 straight games but only 2 of them have been against potential playoff teams - Cincinnati and a suddenly sputtering Baltimore team.
Even Simmons' Patriots only have 3 wins against potential playoff teams - Houston, Denver and Indy. NE has lost to SF, Baltimore, Seattle and Arizona. That's a 3-3 record against playoff teams and 7 wins against "bad" teams with 1 loss to a bad team thrown in.
62.5% of NFL teams miss the playoffs which means that, statistically speaking, 10 of a team's 16 games would be against non-playoff teams. When good teams get beat, who do they typically lose to? Other good teams.
Sound gambling advice of the day. Don't bet on the NFL playoffs this year.
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Jay takes some heat because he just looks like a douche. He might not be, but he looks like one.
I think he has all of the tools to be good/great, but there is something missing. I suppose it could be WRs and offensive line, but really good QB's seem to overcome those issues and are still pretty good.
A mediocre QB can look good with a great offense... while a great QB can make a mediocre offense look good.
I think Jay is an above avg. QB. If you set the expectation correctly, he's fine. If you are expecting him to be Manning/Brees/Rogers/Brady, you are going to be disappointed. He's just not one of those guys.
Honestly, I wouldn't pay him top $. I just don't know if he has the ability to make everybody around him better.
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It would help if Cutler cared a bit more.
(http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/images/smilies/Screen%20Shot%202012-09-28%20at%206.07.07%20PM.png)
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Jay takes some heat because he just looks like a douche. He might not be, but he looks like one.
I think he has all of the tools to be good/great, but there is something missing. I suppose it could be WRs and offensive line, but really good QB's seem to overcome those issues and are still pretty good.
I think Jay is an above avg. QB. If you set the expectation correctly, he's fine. If you are expecting him to be Manning/Brees/Rogers/Brady, you are going to be disappointed. He's just not one of those guys.
He has all the tools except from the neck up.
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Agreed, I meant to add in that most quarterbacks will get on someone when they aren't on the right page, but then they move on. Cutler continues to pout and whine on the bench for the entire defensive series rather than look at pictures from the drive or get on the phone with and talk to the coordinator like the elite quarterbacks do, and then he throws his towel around when the other team scores. It's just horrible leadership.
I guess I missed the channel that shows what Cutler is doing on the sideline for the entire defensive possession. They broadcast him throwing his hands up and getting mad because showing that Cutler is a "bad teammate" is what the media loves to do.
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I guess I missed the channel that shows what Cutler is doing on the sideline for the entire defensive possession. They broadcast him throwing his hands up and getting mad because showing that Cutler is a "bad teammate" is what the media loves to do.
Maybe he should learn to not do it if he wants it to stop?
Aina?
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Maybe he should learn to not do it if he wants it to stop?
Aina?
He doesn't care.
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Nor should he. Cutler was actually playing a pretty decent game until that interception, and frankly I would be pissed too if I had no better receivers opposite Marshall than a rookie and Devin Hester....who still can't run the right route apparently.
Neglectful drafting and poor offensive coaching.
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He has all the tools except from the neck up.
Maybe, but I just don't want to use a tired cliche like that.
Strengths: Arm strength, athleticism, accuracy, seems bright and understand the offense.
Weaknesses: Doesn't seem to be able to spread the ball around, doesn't seem to make others better, maybe a little too animated as a leader.
I think he's above average, but he's not a top tier guy. Is he as good as Matt Schaub? Matt Ryan? Romo? Even Newton, who everybody thought the league had "figured out" is better statistically.
Maybe Jay just isn't as good as we think.
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Weaknesses: Doesn't seem to be able to spread the ball around,
To whom?
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Maybe, but I just don't want to use a tired cliche like that.
Strengths: Arm strength, athleticism, accuracy, seems bright and understand the offense.
Weaknesses: Doesn't seem to be able to spread the ball around, doesn't seem to make others better, maybe a little too animated as a leader.
I think he's above average, but he's not a top tier guy. Is he as good as Matt Schaub? Matt Ryan? Romo? Even Newton, who everybody thought the league had "figured out" is better statistically.
Maybe Jay just isn't as good as we think.
All the weaknesses you state are mental not physical. You are correct maybe he isn’t as good as people thought, but he just seems to be missing that intangible something that leaders and winners have.
What would you think of a president who blamed everybody else for their problems…..oh wait.. never mind.
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To whom?
It's chicken or the egg, I suppose.
Do the QBs make the receivers or can the receivers make the QB?
Top tier QBs seem to elevate average receivers. I just haven't seen Jay really do that.
Give him a running game, great receivers and a good defense, and you can win a lot of games. But, so can 10-15 other QBs in the league.
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To whom?
good point, but if you watch him, a lot of times he focuses on one receiver for the whole play.
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[qote author=hairyworthen link=topic=33505.msg429222#msg429222 date=1355759506]
All the weaknesses you state are mental not physical. You are correct maybe he isn’t as good as people thought, but he just seems to be missing that intangible something that leaders and winners have.
What would you think of a president who blamed everybody else for their problems…..oh wait.. never mind.
[/quote]
Ability to spread the ball around isn't just a mental thing. Some QB's are just faster physically and mentally at progressions and can move the ball around.
Rogers is great at it. Manning, Brees, etc.
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Jay is who he is. He's surly, probably too intelligent for his own good (went to Vanderbilt). Look at what the Bears have given him in his time in Chicago:
-Little to no WR help
-Zero TE help
-One of the poorest o-lines in the league every year
-Constant changing of QB coaches/Offensive Coordinators
If you were an outside sales rep, and you had a new manager every 6 months, awful inside sales help, little help from your marketing dept, you'd be frustrated too.
He has a hell of an arm, more athletic than he is given credit for. His mechanics break down, and he trusts his arm too much at times, and bad things happen. Yesterday's pick was brutal, just a killer turnover.
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[qote author=hairyworthen link=topic=33505.msg429222#msg429222 date=1355759506]
All the weaknesses you state are mental not physical. You are correct maybe he isn’t as good as people thought, but he just seems to be missing that intangible something that leaders and winners have.
What would you think of a president who blamed everybody else for their problems…..oh wait.. never mind.
Ability to spread the ball around isn't just a mental thing. Some QB's are just faster physically and mentally[/b] at progressions and can move the ball around.
Rogers is great at it. Manning, Brees, etc.
Right like I said mental. You are correct it is physical as well, but Cutler does most of the physical things well, you would think he would have the physical ability to spread the ball around.
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Jay is who he is. He's surly, probably too intelligent for his own good (went to Vanderbilt). Look at what the Bears have given him in his time in Chicago:
-Little to no WR help
-Zero TE help
-One of the poorest o-lines in the league every year
-Constant changing of QB coaches/Offensive Coordinators
If you were an outside sales rep, and you had a new manager every 6 months, awful inside sales help, little help from your marketing dept, you'd be frustrated too.
He has a hell of an arm, more athletic than he is given credit for. His mechanics break down, and he trusts his arm too much at times, and bad things happen. Yesterday's pick was brutal, just a killer turnover.
When does the blame start falling on Cutler instead of everything else. I heard Martz was the problem last year because he didn’t run a system that fit the makeup of the team, so they get a new oc. I heard they didn’t have enough big skill receivers, so they draft Jeffery and pick up Marshall. At the beginning of the season Cutler was spouting off how no one could stop his receivers and the new Bear offense. At some point at least some of the blame has to fall on the QB. He gets the credit when they do well.
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Right like I said mental. You are correct it is physical as well, but Cutler does most of the physical things well, you would think he would have the physical ability to spread the ball around.
Jay has a major problems forgetting what happened on the previous play. That is his main problem.
As for his team's problems... that has been addressed pretty well in this thread.
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When does the blame start falling on Cutler instead of everything else. I heard Martz was the problem last year because he didn’t run a system that fit the makeup of the team, so they get a new oc. I heard they didn’t have enough big skill receivers, so they draft Jeffery and pick up Marshall. At the beginning of the season Cutler was spouting off how no one could stop his receivers and the new Bear offense. At some point at least some of the blame has to fall on the QB. He gets the credit when they do well.
I gave Cutler proper blame.
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I gave Cutler proper blame.
you yes, others no
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Right like I said mental. You are correct it is physical as well, but Cutler does most of the physical things well, you would think he would have the physical ability to spread the ball around.
Well, I'll add to that:
The top guys have fantastic footwork and can usually slide/extend plays to get to the 2nd and 3rd option. Neither Manning or Brady are great runners, but they are great in the pocket, and can extend the play an extra second to find the 3rd option.
That's a physical ability that not many QB's have.
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Well, I'll add to that:
The top guys have fantastic footwork and can usually slide/extend plays to get to the 2nd and 3rd option. Neither Manning or Brady are great runners, but they are great in the pocket, and can extend the play an extra second to find the 3rd option.
That's a physical ability that not many QB's have.
Agree
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To pile on the Bears issues is the play of Forte. I was strongly against giving him anything other than the franchise tag, unless it's AP, I don't believe in giving out long term/big money deals to RB's.
Besides his mediocre play, he's an issue in the locker room. His deal is going to end up being a bad one for the Bears.
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Right like I said mental. You are correct it is physical as well, but Cutler does most of the physical things well, you would think he would have the physical ability to spread the ball around.
Marshall is the only receiver that Cutler trusts and the only WR who knows how to get open. There have been countless times throughout the season where a play starts to breakdown and Cutler moves around in or out of the pocket and every receiver aside from Marshall is standing still. Watch the receivers for GB, or just about any other decent NFL/college team, and you'll see receivers working to get open when the play is breaking down.
Keep in mind that the Bears also have been implementing a lot of max protect schemes because of their porous offensive line. That means there are few players actually running routes, sometimes as few as two. One of those players is always Brandon Marshall.
Bears' QBs have completed 57.4% of their passes to WRs and TEs. Take away Marshall's numbers and that falls to 50.8%. In other words, half of the Bears passes that aren't thrown to Marshall or dumped off are incomplete. That's dreadful and says a lot about the Bears weapons on offense. That doesn't mean Cutler isn't part of the problem but he's pretty far down the list of offensive concerns.
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To pile on the Bears issues is the play of Forte. I was strongly against giving him anything other than the franchise tag, unless it's AP, I don't believe in giving out long term/big money deals to RB's.
Besides his mediocre play, he's an issue in the locker room. His deal is going to end up being a bad one for the Bears.
True, but Tice is using him extremely poorly. Forte is not a good in the box runner. He's best when attacking the defense at the edges. Even though Martz had his issues, his biggest positive was that he completely understood how to use Forte both in the running and passing game.
In addition, he runs behind that garbage line. Yesterday, it seemed that on almost half his carries (especially after the 1st quarter), he was dodging Packer defenders in the backfield.
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Marshall is the only receiver that Cutler trusts and the only WR who knows how to get open. There have been countless times throughout the season where a play starts to breakdown and Cutler moves around in or out of the pocket and every receiver aside from Marshall is standing still. Watch the receivers for GB, or just about any other decent NFL/college team, and you'll see receivers working to get open when the play is breaking down.
Keep in mind that the Bears also have been implementing a lot of max protect schemes because of their porous offensive line. That means there are few players actually running routes, sometimes as few as two. One of those players is always Brandon Marshall.
Bears' QBs have completed 57.4% of their passes to WRs and TEs. Take away Marshall's numbers and that falls to 50.8%. In other words, half of the Bears passes that aren't thrown to Marshall or dumped off are incomplete. That's dreadful and says a lot about the Bears weapons on offense. That doesn't mean Cutler isn't part of the problem but he's pretty far down the list of offensive concerns.
I think you are right, but just for comparison, Ponder's numbers look relatively similar to Culter, he doesn't have any receivers, and everybody thinks he's bad (including me).
Using the eye test, obv. Jay has talent, but maybe he's more of a problem then we think.
I say this as somebody who defended Jay the past few years, but now I'm just looking at the facts.
Even in the future, the Bears might be best running the ball more and using Jay's abilities more selectively/conservatively.
He's very effective in certain spots, so the key will be to put him in those positions and to limit his exposure (duh).
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Marshall is the only receiver that Cutler trusts and the only WR who knows how to get open. There have been countless times throughout the season where a play starts to breakdown and Cutler moves around in or out of the pocket and every receiver aside from Marshall is standing still. Watch the receivers for GB, or just about any other decent NFL/college team, and you'll see receivers working to get open when the play is breaking down.
Keep in mind that the Bears also have been implementing a lot of max protect schemes because of their porous offensive line. That means there are few players actually running routes, sometimes as few as two. One of those players is always Brandon Marshall.
Bears' QBs have completed 57.4% of their passes to WRs and TEs. Take away Marshall's numbers and that falls to 50.8%. In other words, half of the Bears passes that aren't thrown to Marshall or dumped off are incomplete. That's dreadful and says a lot about the Bears weapons on offense. That doesn't mean Cutler isn't part of the problem but he's pretty far down the list of offensive concerns.
I've been mentioning this problem for the past few years to friends. Darryl Drake has been on the Bears' staff as the WR coach for 9 years. Somehow, he's survived every change at OC (I think I heard once that he's close with Lovie and that's the reason he's still there). And in that time? Basically no significant development of any WR or TE. We all saw how the Hester-as-a-#1-WR project turned out. I'm scared for the development of Jeffrey (who seems to have all the physical tools) if Drake remains.
I can't remember specifics, but during Martz's tenure, one of the younger WRs (maybe Bennett), mentioned that Martz taught them where to run (deep to shallow, etc) when a play breaks down/QB is scrambling...wtf?! How does a WR coach not know the basics of his position???!
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I think its more than just body language with Cutler. See how Webb and Moore feel about the guy. If the bears did a secret survey, how many of them would honestly respond that they trust Cutler as a leader?
I just don't know how you can root for a guy who just gives up. He showed absolutely no desire to play on that last series. I don't care how bad the odds are or how bad your o-line is, you rush up to the line and frantically try to get 1 or more plays off. Your season is on the line.
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I've been mentioning this problem for the past few years to friends. Darryl Drake has been on the Bears' staff as the WR coach for 9 years. Somehow, he's survived every change at OC (I think I heard once that he's close with Lovie and that's the reason he's still there). And in that time? Basically no significant development of any WR or TE. We all saw how the Hester-as-a-#1-WR project turned out. I'm scared for the development of Jeffrey (who seems to have all the physical tools) if Drake remains.
I can't remember specifics, but during Martz's tenure, one of the younger WRs (maybe Bennett), mentioned that Martz taught them where to run (deep to shallow, etc) when a play breaks down/QB is scrambling...wtf?! How does a WR coach not know the basics of his position???!
They have really had the same WR coach for the last 9 years? That is totally unfathomable. How does the guy deserve his job? holy christ.
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I've been mentioning this problem for the past few years to friends. Darryl Drake has been on the Bears' staff as the WR coach for 9 years. Somehow, he's survived every change at OC (I think I heard once that he's close with Lovie and that's the reason he's still there). And in that time? Basically no significant development of any WR or TE. We all saw how the Hester-as-a-#1-WR project turned out. I'm scared for the development of Jeffrey (who seems to have all the physical tools) if Drake remains.
I can't remember specifics, but during Martz's tenure, one of the younger WRs (maybe Bennett), mentioned that Martz taught them where to run (deep to shallow, etc) when a play breaks down/QB is scrambling...wtf?! How does a WR coach not know the basics of his position???!
As a bears fan I have to say it's time for Lovie to go...along with much of his staff, like Drake. Even if they make the playoffs, they need to pursue an offensive - minded coach like Gruden or Sean Payton (I can dream...). They need to step up and make a change on that side of the ball and while we're at it, get rid of the Tampa 2. I think the only way the Tampa 2 goes is if Lovie goes.
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When does the blame start falling on Cutler instead of everything else. I heard Martz was the problem last year because he didn’t run a system that fit the makeup of the team, so they get a new oc.
Yeah...Mike Tice.
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Yeah...Mike Tice.
That play calling for the bears was brutal yesterday. One series it was run into the line 0 yards, run into the line 1 yard, screen pass 2 yards, punt. or the goal line stand by the packers, lot of originality in that offensive series by the bears.
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As a bears fan I have to say it's time for Lovie to go...along with much of his staff, like Drake. Even if they make the playoffs, they need to pursue an offensive - minded coach like Gruden or Sean Payton (I can dream...). They need to step up and make a change on that side of the ball and while we're at it, get rid of the Tampa 2. I think the only way the Tampa 2 goes is if Lovie goes.
Doubt Payton would come to Chicago. And I don't think Gruden is going to coach for a while.
I'm not sure about head coach, but I'd love to see Norv Turner or Cam Cameron on the Bears' sideline as an OC.
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I've always thought Cutler was an average to slightly above average NFL starting QB. Nothing he has done this year would make me change my mind. He just isn't that good.
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I've always thought Cutler was an average to slightly above average NFL starting QB. Nothing he has done this year would make me change my mind. He just isn't that good.
Way too much volatility to Cutler's game. For every time he makes a jaw droppin', not many could have done that kind of play he makes two head scratchin', how does an NFL quarterback do that kind of play. He dangerous, but too often to his own team.
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Actually, he cheers for just about everyone and is known for it here in So. Cal. He's a USC grad, big Kings, Angels, Lakers, Cubs, Packers, etc, etc, etc, etc, fan.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwpVX8NB4IuI55HTeYvFZzlMfkmBixv6TD6Q6jLkTgcOTXzLp10Q)
(http://mryoder1.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/rise_i_wferrell1_400.jpg)
(http://wepuckny.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/will-ferrell-and-the-stanley-cup-450x293.jpg)
(http://www.trendrabbit.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Will-Ferrell-John-C-Reilly-Kiss-At-Lakers-Game-2.jpg)
John C Reilly - My wife saw him with his family this past summer at JFK Airport passing through the security line. His kids were all wearing the same Panama Jack Hat as John.
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Wanted to say this too...
If I had a vote, Rodgers is my league MVP. AP's having a remarkable year (I'd vote him OPY), and I really respect the year Manning has had, and I'd have him right behind Rodgers.
With little running game to speak of, losing arguably his best receiver (still my belief Cobb is their best), losing Nelson for a long time, getting not much production from Finley, and being sacked more than any other QB, Rodgers has had an outstanding year. He throws such a remarkably accurate ball, I love watching him play quarterback. When the team was starting to get questioned in the media after a rough start, he went out and had an "eff you" game against Houston. He's my MVP.
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(http://thenewsportsguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/clay-matthews-dirty-dancing-12-16-12.gif)
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Wanted to say this too...
If I had a vote, Rodgers is my league MVP. AP's having a remarkable year (I'd vote him OPY), and I really respect the year Manning has had, and I'd have him right behind Rodgers.
With little running game to speak of, losing arguably his best receiver (still my belief Cobb is their best), losing Nelson for a long time, getting not much production from Finley, and being sacked more than any other QB, Rodgers has had an outstanding year. He throws such a remarkably accurate ball, I love watching him play quarterback. When the team was starting to get questioned in the media after a rough start, he went out and had an "eff you" game against Houston. He's my MVP.
It's tough this year, no clear MVP choice in my mind. I'd put Brady into that mix as well, maybe even RG3 if he can come back and lead his team to the playoffs--although he will get docked a bit for missing (at least) one game and some people won't vote for a rookie (stupid). Ryan could garner a few votes if they end up with only 1 loss, but realistically he doesn't (and shouldn't) have a chance to win.
Of course I'm a biased Packers fan so I'd probably vote for Arod, although he has been just a bit off this year compared to his utterly remarkable performance last year.
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QB is inherently the most valuable position, so for a non-QB to win it is pretty tough.
AP might be having the most dominate season ever for a RB, but probably won't win the MVP.
However, that dude is almost single-handedly leading a below average team to the playoffs.
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(http://thenewsportsguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/clay-matthews-dirty-dancing-12-16-12.gif)
"Starting defense! Place at the table! Wooo!"
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QB is inherently the most valuable position, so for a non-QB to win it is pretty tough.
AP might be having the most dominate season ever for a RB, but probably won't win the MVP.
However, that dude is almost single-handedly leading a below average team to the playoffs.
To me, there's no question he is the Offensive Player of the Year. Guy is just a monster, just incredible he's doing this off an ACL tear less than a year ago, remarkable.
When you look at the NFC North, you have the best QB (and overall player) in Rodgers, best RB in AP, best WR in Megatron.
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To me, there's no question he is the Offensive Player of the Year. Guy is just a monster, just incredible he's doing this off an ACL tear less than a year ago, remarkable.
When you look at the NFC North, you have the best QB (and overall player) in Rodgers, best RB in AP, best WR in Megatron.
Throw in finley as best tight end... Well only in his own mind.
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To me, there's no question he is the Offensive Player of the Year. Guy is just a monster, just incredible he's doing this off an ACL tear less than a year ago, remarkable.
With the pass heavy trends in the NFL, its also really easy to always want to point to the system for successful RBs. And generally there is probably some truth to that as defensive players have comparably caught up to offensive players over the past 10-15 years. Guys like Jerry Rice and Tim Brown, while useful pieces, could never see that kind of success in todays game. You have to be a physical beast to compete with 280 lb DEs running 4.5s. I think a guy like Arian Foster, while very good, benefits greatly from his system. Guys like Forsett and Tate get plugged in and the running game keeps on ticking.
But AP is from a different planet. When you watch him, its not unusual for two different defenders to get a hand on him behind the line. The Vikings line as a unit gets mediocre push, but they dont notably move the line of scrimmage. If I had a vote, I'd probably make him the MVP. If he doesn't win it, a non QB offensive player won't win it for at least 10 years - until the next league-wide shift in offensive philosophy brought by player evolution, coach innovation, rule changes or something else.
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The best running back I have ever seen that matched speed with agility with power was Bo Jackson. Adrian Peterson is better than Bo Jackson was.
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With the pass heavy trends in the NFL, its also really easy to always want to point to the system for successful RBs. And generally there is probably some truth to that as defensive players have comparably caught up to offensive players over the past 10-15 years. Guys like Jerry Rice and Tim Brown, while useful pieces, could never see that kind of success in todays game. You have to be a physical beast to compete with 280 lb DEs running 4.5s. I think a guy like Arian Foster, while very good, benefits greatly from his system. Guys like Forsett and Tate get plugged in and the running game keeps on ticking.
But AP is from a different planet. When you watch him, its not unusual for two different defenders to get a hand on him behind the line. The Vikings line as a unit gets mediocre push, but they dont notably move the line of scrimmage. If I had a vote, I'd probably make him the MVP. If he doesn't win it, a non QB offensive player won't win it for at least 10 years - until the next league-wide shift in offensive philosophy brought by player evolution, coach innovation, rule changes or something else.
Agree with all of this. The game is just designed now for QBs and then everybody else.
If AP has 2 more big games and the Vikes make it to the playoffs, you might see him win, simply because it will be a historic season.
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To me, there's no question he is the Offensive Player of the Year. Guy is just a monster, just incredible he's doing this off an ACL tear less than a year ago, remarkable.
When you look at the NFC North, you have the best QB (and overall player) in Rodgers, best RB in AP, best WR in Megatron.
If using the literal criteria of most valuable player, before the team's late-season collapse, a case could have been made for Brandon Marshall being the NFL MVP. Obviously the odds of a WR being selected MVP are only slightly better than an offensive tackle being named MVP, but as bad as the Bears' offense has been, think of where they'd be without him. Now, I don't actually think Marshall is/was the MVP but he earned some votes.
As for the MVP now, a vote for anyone besides Peterson is just plain wrong. Peyton Manning #2, RG3 #3.
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How is Mason Crosby still the kicker on the Packers? 17/29 is pitiful, even if 8 of the misses are beyond 50 yards. My only answer is... in the 8-1 streak, he has missed plenty of kicks, but none of them has cost the Packers a game (38-10 can't be blamed on Crosby). But, how long can the Packers dodge the bullet? One missed kick in a playoff game could result in a long off-season for McCarthy.
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TT will probably extend him.
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TT will probably extend him.
Without a doubt. Because it's Ted's call to keep him. You realize McCarthy is the one who makes the call to continue to use Crosby as his kicker, yet you sing McCarthy's praises as if he's God's gift to football and single handedly made Aaron Rodgers, Clay Matthews, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, etc. the players they are today, yet you blame Ted for extending Crosby and give him absolutely no credit for drafting the above mentioned (besides Jennings) players. It's silly.
P.S. Your second biggest complaint behind our kicker (which is a pretty good situation to be in if your kicker is the biggest problem...), the defense that Ted Thompson "fails to address" is a very respectable 12th in yards given up per play in the NFL and 8th (1 total point behind the Steelers for 7th) in points per game given up. Far from the travesty you try to make it out to be. Looks like he certainly addressed the issue this year, as it went from dead last in yards per play to 12th...a 20 team jump. Not sure what they were in points given up per game last year, but my guess is it wasn't 8th (or better). This is all without arguably the most dominant defensive player in the NFL for 1/4 of the season and without the defensive leader for 1/2 od the season. And the defense is incredibly young and only going to get better. But yeah, Ted never addresses the team's weaknesses...
You're clueless when it comes to football, kid.
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I don't expect you to be balanced and actually criticize TT but you've misconstrued my portrayal of TT. I have given him credit for his drafting it's been above average to very good while at GB. I think he's got a talent for it.
I've said he has been atrocious in utilization of free agency, and contract decisions (besides the no brainers) the past half decade.
Our defense has fallen back and TT did some mending after it blew up on him (which he had a hand in: jenkins for crosby etc.) causing him to use a whole draft on defense. That's a failure.
Yes I think McCarthy is a great coach as he has coached up Rodgers and the O (heck even coached up Matt Flynn) to elite level. We need to capitalize on that but the way our D absolutely blew up since '11 SB and SF has improved in D and O it's gonna be tough.
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I don't expect you to be balanced and actually criticize TT but you've misconstrued my portrayal of TT. I have given him credit for his drafting it's been above average to very good while at GB. I think he's got a talent for it.
I've said he has been atrocious in utilization of free agency, and contract decisions (besides the no brainers) the past half decade.
Our defense has fallen back and TT did some mending after it blew up on him (which he had a hand in: jenkins for crosby etc.) causing him to use a whole draft on defense. That's a failure.
Yes I think McCarthy is a great coach as he has coached up Rodgers and the O (heck even coached up Matt Flynn) to elite level. We need to capitalize on that but the way our D absolutely blew up since '11 SB and SF has improved in D and O it's gonna be tough.
I can't blame TT for Nick Collins' injury. In '10 they had one of the best ball-hawking secondaries in the league, and it lost one of the best safeties in the game. That was huge.
Signing Cullen Jenkins would have been a waste...he has done nothing substantial for the Eagles.
And again, you are talking about a team that went 15-1 and lost in the playoffs to the eventual champions.
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I don't expect you to be balanced and actually criticize TT but you've misconstrued my portrayal of TT. I have given him credit for his drafting it's been above average to very good while at GB. I think he's got a talent for it.
I've said he has been atrocious in utilization of free agency, and contract decisions (besides the no brainers) the past half decade.
Our defense has fallen back and TT did some mending after it blew up on him (which he had a hand in: jenkins for crosby etc.) causing him to use a whole draft on defense. That's a failure.
Yes I think McCarthy is a great coach as he has coached up Rodgers and the O (heck even coached up Matt Flynn) to elite level. We need to capitalize on that but the way our D absolutely blew up since '11 SB and SF has improved in D and O it's gonna be tough.
TT has a philosophy and a system and he stays true to it. Sometimes sticking with the system is more important than the system itself. How can you even begin to argue with the results? How would you like to be in the bears situation right now or the lions.
As a general rule, the packers will not throw huge money on high profile free agents. They generally do not like to sign guys over 30 especially with history of injury. (IE. Jenkins). They will not draft a running back in the first round or probably not a guard either. They develop from within and it has been successful. There are not many teams with a better record than the Packers since TT took over. Yes MM develops the players, but who hired MM and who got him the players to develop.
The TT criticism is difficult to understand. Does he miss on a few moves? Hell yes but show me a GM who doesn’t. At the end of the day, the packer organization is stable, successful and a model for the NFL.
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TT has a philosophy and a system and he stays true to it. Sometimes sticking with the system is more important than the system itself. How can you even begin to argue with the results? How would you like to be in the bears situation right now or the lions.
As a general rule, the packers will not throw huge money on high profile free agents. They generally do not like to sign guys over 30 especially with history of injury. (IE. Jenkins). They will not draft a running back in the first round or probably not a guard either. They develop from within and it has been successful. There are not many teams with a better record than the Packers since TT took over. Yes MM develops the players, but who hired MM and who got him the players to develop.
The TT criticism is difficult to understand. Does he miss on a few moves? Hell yes but show me a GM who doesn’t. At the end of the day, the packer organization is stable, successful and a model for the NFL.
Usually the people who criticize TT are the ones that are Brett Favre widows who still hold a grudge.
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Usually the people who criticize TT are the ones that are Brett Favre widows who still hold a grudge.
Exactly, but that turned out to be the exact correct move for no other reason than what kind of credibility would TT or MM have if they let favre dictate to them what they should do.
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The TT criticism is difficult to understand. Does he miss on a few moves? Hell yes but show me a GM who doesn’t. At the end of the day, the packer organization is stable, successful and a model for the NFL.
I think its cause Packer fans were always insecure looking at realizing a few hours South, Ted Thompson was being outworked and out-thought by one of the premier talent evaluators in all of football in Jerry Angelo... ::)
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Any Titan fans out there want to keep this exhilarating Packers vs. ______ banter going through next week?
It's just for a week, though... Jay Bee will take it from there.
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Any Titan fans out there want to keep this exhilarating Packers vs. ______ banter going through next week?
It's just for a week, though... Jay Bee will take it from there.
Wait... the Titans have fans?
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Exactly, but that turned out to be the exact correct move for no other reason than what kind of credibility would TT or MM have if they let favre dictate to them what they should do.
That's easy to say now. If they didn't have the best QB in football sitting on the bench at the time, their decisions may have been different. Then again, the decision to draft said QB may have started some of Favre's silliness in the first place.
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That's easy to say now. If they didn't have the best QB in football sitting on the bench at the time, their decisions may have been different. Then again, the decision to draft said QB may have started some of Favre's silliness in the first place.
IIRC Favre had already 'retired' once before they drafted Rodgers but of course that decision could be different if they didn't think Rodgers could perform as a starter
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I can't blame TT for Nick Collins' injury. In '10 they had one of the best ball-hawking secondaries in the league, and it lost one of the best safeties in the game. That was huge.
Signing Cullen Jenkins would have been a waste...he has done nothing substantial for the Eagles.
And again, you are talking about a team that went 15-1 and lost in the playoffs to the eventual champions.
Teams ran for 4.7 YARDS A CARRY against our front seven. To blame that meltdown on Nick Collins is too easy. He's mended some of the problems and I love the Hayward db he picked. We wasted a legendary offensive year last year though.
Some of TT's best early moves were when he used free agency to build up our D, Woodson, Pickett. It's too bad his need for a rigid philosophy overrides common sense that other GM's use when a good deal is to be had.
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Teams ran for 4.7 YARDS A CARRY against our front seven.
And the year before they gave up....wait for it...wait for it...4.7 YARDS A CARRY.
And won the Super Bowl.
The real problem was net yards per pass attempt went up from 5.4 to 7.2, but sacks were roughly the same. Last year's problems were almost entirely caused by a poor secondary.
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Not hard to see how the D reached meltdown proportions. That's atrocious run defense.
4.7 yds
4.7
4.5
playing with fire.
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Not hard to see how the D reached meltdown proportions. That's atrocious run defense.
4.7 yds
4.7
4.5
playing with fire.
2 years ago we won the Super Bowl. Last year we went 15-1 and lost to the team that got hot and rolled through the Playoffs. Do you expect 19-0 every year?
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Not hard to see how the D reached meltdown proportions. That's atrocious run defense.
4.7 yds
4.7
4.5
playing with fire.
Hey look!!! You managed to twist statistics TWICE to fit your agenda... Surprise, surprise....
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you old guys are feisty.
That's atrocious run d in any league. That is not a foundation for success and if our secondary dips below avg. like last year the bottom falls out with no run d.
The cause for such a drop on an 11 man unit can be reliably put on the absence of one???? There are many factors: pressure on qb, cb play, safety play, avg. down and distance, etc.
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Stone....
They WON the Super Bowl....they followed that up with a 15-1 season....and they are 10-4 this year after starting 2-3.
You have to understand at some point that your criticisms of a guy that built a team that 95% of NFL fans would love to have get sillier and sillier.
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All I know is TT better not put the franchise tag on Mashtay or I'll flip my lid. ;)
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All I know is TT better not put the franchise tag on Mashtay or I'll flip my lid. ;)
It gets better. Masthay's old man teaches at Dayton.
Edited for spelling.
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you old guys are feisty.
That's atrocious run d in any league. That is not a foundation for success and if our secondary dips below avg. like last year the bottom falls out with no run d.
The cause for such a drop on an 11 man unit can be reliably put on the absence of one???? There are many factors: pressure on qb, cb play, safety play, avg. down and distance, etc.
First year watching football?
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It gets better. Mastay's old man teaches at Dayton.
The Ginger Wolverine.
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The Ginger Wolverine.
Yup. So say his mates.
Pretty good punter.
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loving the fact that the Pack controls the destiny of duh bears (assuming they take care of business against the Lions first). Tough choice - lock up that #2 seed or screw the bears and send Lovie packing ...:)
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I would much rather face the Bears in the playoffs than the Vikings. I want no part of Adrian Peterson.
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I would much rather face the Bears in the playoffs than the Vikings. I want no part of Adrian Peterson.
In the cold, no less. It would be the rare occurrence where the Packers would be disadvantaged playing at Lambeau. A pro-bowl QB who simply isn't the same guy in cold weather and a middling run defense vs. one of the best running teams (and the best RB) in the league... no thank you.
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I would much rather face the Bears in the playoffs than the Vikings. I want no part of Adrian Peterson.
YESSAAAAH!
Skol Vikings! Still time to jump on the bandwagon, boys. Can't wait to beat Green Bey Sunday!!!!!
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loving the fact that the Pack controls the destiny of duh bears (assuming they take care of business against the Lions first). Tough choice - lock up that #2 seed or screw the bears and send Lovie packing ...:)
As a Bears' fan, I hope Lovie sent packing either way.
Though, I wouldn't be afraid of playing the Falcons in round 1. Turner is stoppable and Ryan has some awful games.
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As a Bears' fan, I hope Lovie sent packing either way.
Though, I wouldn't be afraid of playing the Falcons in round 1. Turner is stoppable and Ryan has some awful games.
Bears would play the Falcons in round 2... and Green Bay in the NFC Championship. Though the roles will be reversed this time, the inevitable outcome of the Packers going to (and eventually winning) the Super Bowl on the backs of the Chicago Bears - again - seems too appealing.
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Tough choice - lock up that #2 seed or screw the bears and send Lovie packing .
I am sure they are debating this thouroughly everyday in team meetings.
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YESSAAAAH!
Skol Vikings! Still time to jump on the bandwagon, boys. Can't wait to beat Green Bey Sunday!!!!!
Packers win, Vikings go home. Packers go 2 full seasons (plus the end of the 2010 season) without losing a single game in the division.
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Packers win, Vikings go home. Packers go 2 full seasons (plus the end of the 2010 season) without losing a single game in the division.
This game would have the hallmarks of a Brett Favre 4 INT performance if he were still in green and gold. I feel better about it with Rodgers at the helm. Just need to sustain through the early emotional rocket that the Vikings will be on.
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This game would have the hallmarks of a Brett Favre 4 INT performance if he were still in green and gold. I feel better about it with Rodgers at the helm. Just need to sustain through the early emotional rocket that the Vikings will be on.
Just rush the ball at Jared Allen all game because he could be the worst rush defensive lineman in the league. Just watch.
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None of it will even matter once the 49ers beat the Cardinals, right? For the Bears, I mean.
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None of it will even matter once the 49ers beat the Cardinals, right? For the Bears, I mean.
Vikings win and they're in. Bears loss and the Vikings are in. Bears win and Vikings lose, Bears are in. I don't think anything else matters for the 6th playoff spot (unless the Bears and Vikings both lose, then something weird may happen)
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Vikings win and they're in. Bears loss and the Vikings are in. Bears win and Vikings lose, Bears are in. I don't think anything else matters for the 6th playoff spot (unless the Bears and Vikings both lose, then something weird may happen)
Giants can get the 6th spot with Vikings, Bears and Cowboys losses.
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Vikings win and they're in. Bears loss and the Vikings are in.
Vikings lose and they need the Bears, Giants and Cowboys to lose to get the 6th seed.
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As a Bears' fan, I hope Lovie sent packing either way.
Though, I wouldn't be afraid of playing the Falcons in round 1. Turner is stoppable and Ryan has some awful games.
As a Packer fan, I hope he stays. 3 playoff wins in 9 years is s c a r y !
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Short of a Super Bowl Appearance, which isn't going to happen, I don't see any scenario where Love Smith is back with the Bears.
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Isn't there some way we can screw 'em both? How about a tie?
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Short of a Super Bowl Appearance, which isn't going to happen, I don't see any scenario where Love Smith is back with the Bears.
And he needs to take his WR coach with him.
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And he needs to take his WR coach with him.
You mean the one who taught Brandon Marshall everything he knows?
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You mean the one who taught Brandon Marshall everything he knows?
Darryl Drake has been with the Bears since 2004. Prior to this season he has no connection to Marshall.
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You mean the one who taught Brandon Marshall everything he knows?
The guy who turned devin Hester into a #1 receiver.
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And about when did Mushin Muhammad say that "Chicago was a place where WRs go to die."?
Found the answer, Aug 12, 2008. About halfway through Drake's tenure.
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Darryl Drake has been with the Bears since 2004. Prior to this season he has no connection to Marshall.
Sorry I didn't think I needed teal. Drake is a complete joke as a coach.
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Bad GB rush defense vs. AD and Vike's o line= headache today.
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Bears still suck. Losing is Almost worth it.
Good late season pickup by TT with that Harris RB. Kid is running hungry.
Need to get somewhat lucky and create to's during the playoffs to make a good run. SF is favorite, imo.
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Bad GB rush defense vs. AD and Vike's o line= headache today.
Damn Capers going into a soft zone was pathetic on that 3rd and long.....
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Damn Capers going into a soft zone was pathetic on that 3rd and long.....
That was the game. Yes, Hayward made a mistake. But they changed into that soft crap at the line.
F*cking gutless wonder. Have to pressure Ponder, especially with Peterson off the field there.
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Yeah that was bad, some on Hayward. Don't know you can blame one play though, not giving up 200 yds to AD would have been beneficial. You pointing out my mistake last week made me realize how bad our run defense has been, now I have to worry about that every week. :)
Think we're a lot closer to our 2010 d though. Hopefully we can create some more to's going forward.
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SKOL VIKINGS we are the best!!!
More sadness will be delivered to Green Bey fans next weekend!
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SKOL VIKINGS we are the best!!!
More sadness will be delivered to Green Bey fans next weekend!
Sadness? Any day the Bears are knocked out of the Playoffs is a good one!
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Tramon's penalty was more frustrating than Hayward blowing the coverage.
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Peterson's numbers against the Pack:
55 carries for 409 yards.
Wow.
The Pack will be favorites next week, but if it's windy and cold, the Vikes will have a shot running the ball and playing defense.
Also, Ponder still thoroughly confuses me. Looks so great on some throws, looks brutal on others. I guess that's the mark of a below average QB.
I'd like to say that he's "developing", but I'm not sure he has the accuracy.
Efficient game today, so that's hopeful.
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A QB like Ponder is always going to look better at home.
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A QB like Ponder is always going to look better at home.
Career QB Rating:
Home: 76.9
Road: 74.1
So, you're right... sort of.
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Career QB Rating:
Home: 76.9
Road: 74.1
So, you're right... sort of.
Heh...I said "look."
(Yeah...that was lame.)
BTW, a healthy Greg Jennings and Jordy Nelson both on the field? WOW!!!
It would be nice to be able to resign him but I don't think that's happening.
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Hmmmm....apparently the Vikings have not won outdoors all season. They have won road games at St. Louis, Detroit and Houston. (Assuming Houston had the roof closed.)
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Heh...I said "look."
(Yeah...that was lame.)
BTW, a healthy Greg Jennings and Jordy Nelson both on the field? WOW!!!
It would be nice to be able to resign him but I don't think that's happening.
And Randall Cobb didn't even play...Plus James Jones scored another TD...
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I say this believing the Packers win next Sunday afternoon...
Other than the Texans who pissed away home field (and I think will lose against Cincy Saturday afternoon), I think the Packers were the biggest loser today.
Biggest benefit they get is playing next Sunday (instead of a short week) and being at home, but they now get a divisional opponent, who is physical in the opening round. With a win against the Vikings, they earn a trip out to San Fran, another physical team. If they can survive those two, I believe they would have to root for Atlanta. I think hosting Seattle or Washington would be tougher.
Tough sledding. San Fran gets huge benefit of getting extra week off, as they're beat up right now.
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The Packers are playing Saturday night...and if they win the Saturday night after that.
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Ouch, just heard that too. My guy at the Bears had heard NBC was going to get Hawks/East winner.
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What a brutal Cowboy loss.
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I'm not sure what quarterback got into Ponder's body before the game (nh), but I hope he's back next week. Nice job out there - couple of very good plays, but overall just a solid effort with few big mistakes.
Frozen tears in Lambeau will be so pretty, even on those huge chick fans of theirs.
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Who are some hot GM names? Jags need a new one.
And I only care because I happen to have season tickets.
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This could result in a trifecta of Packer schadenfreude.
Lose to Vikings...Bears fans are distraught
"Let ( ;) )" Peterson get within 10 yards of the NFL rushing record but come up short in the end...Vikings fans extremely disappointed
Crush Vikings next week...Vikings fans distraught, Bears fans apoplectic thinking why couldn't Packers play like that last week!
BTW, that is not a prediction, just an observation.
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This could result in a trifecta of Packer schadenfreude.
Lose to Vikings...Bears fans are distraught
"Let ( ;) )" Peterson get within 10 yards of the NFL rushing record but come up short in the end...Vikings fans extremely disappointed
Crush Vikings next week...Vikings fans distraught, Bears fans apoplectic thinking why couldn't Packers play like that last week!
BTW, that is not a prediction, just an observation.
Yesterday may worked out beautifully for Bears fans. The Bears won, the Packers lost and it appears Lovie and his staff are on the way out (fingers crossed). The Bears weren't going anywhere in the playoffs even if they had gotten in. You think they were going to go to SF and beat the Niners?
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The Packers did themselves a favor yesterday and lost so they only have to play outside at Lambeau once more this year.
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You think they were going to go to SF and beat the Niners?
No, but as a fan, I sure wanted them to have the chance. I don't know if Lovie gets fired, but we shall see.
I am more concerned about the D next season. A lot of critical pieces are getting a bit long in the tooth.
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Just got confirmed to me, Lovie and staff are out.
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Rex or Rob Ryan your seat is ready. ;)
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Hmmmm....apparently the Vikings have not won outdoors all season. They have won road games at St. Louis, Detroit and Houston. (Assuming Houston had the roof closed.)
MN played 4 outdoor games:
Seattle
Chicago
Green Bay
Washington
None of those are easy games, regardless of location... so I don't know if it's "the outdoors" as much as it's about who they played this season.
Also, Houston's turf is so bad that you can almost consider that an outdoor game.
With all of this said, historically, the Vikes have been better on turf/indoors because they had a 10-12year run of decent QBs, great receivers and a speedy defense. This team doesn't have that DNA.
Green Bay usually has a short and fast playing surface, so I don't think field conditions will be a big factor. Crowd noise is a factor. Turnovers are a factor. Weather can be a factor.
The Vikes can win, but they will have to out-execute GB. They will have to run it right at them with success over and over. The Vikes aren't good enough to get exotic and trick teams. They just have to be better than GB at blocking and tackling, and make the big plays when they are there.
If GB comes out and has success early, it's over. But, if they struggle, the Vikes will be tough to put away because they are very physical.
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Rex or Rob Ryan your seat is ready. ;)
Rex kept his job.
No way Rob Ryan gets a HC spot after the way the Dallas D got shredded the final 1/2 of the season. But what the hell do I know.
I am surprised Mel Tucker hasn't gotten some serious looks yet.
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Just got confirmed to me, Lovie and staff are out.
I never realized he only made the playoffs three times in nine years.
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Rex or Rob Ryan your seat is ready. ;)
Really? No way Rex, but Rob Ryan?
Fast and Furious so far:
Bills
Chiefs
Browns
Eagles
Bears
UpNext:
Chargers
Cardinals ?
Jaguars?
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I just wanna see Rob join this posse
(http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs6/2404937_o.gif)
Come on Bears, do it, you know Buddy Ryan was your last great coach.. ;)
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Bill
Chiefs
Browns
Eagles
Bears
Chargers
Cardinals
Thats 7 coaches canned. Probably only Andy Reid gets a new job somewhere.
Does Chip Kelly go to Philly with his high power offense, but gets full control of football operations?
Does Nick Saban get the job in Cleveland with same control?
Does Bill O'Brian leave Penn State?
Fun to watch over next few weeks.
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Chip Kelly to Carolina, where he can use Newton the same way RG3 and Russell WIlson have found success.
Andy Reid to SD.
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Lovie is going to be a very good defensive coordinator for somebody. He won't be out of work long.
If you think about it, Cutler's thumb injury last season may have ended up costing both Angelo and Lovie their jobs. If Cutler stays healthy last season, the Bears beat at least Oakland, KC and Denver, finishing the season 11-5. Good enough for the NFC 5-seed and a road loss to the eventual Super Bowl Champion Giants. No shame in that. Angelo stays and Lovie is not on the hot seat this season. Fading into a 10-6 record this season (assuming the same results with Angelo at GM - Marshall was HUGE for the offense but there weren't many other changes) may have put Lovie on the hot seat going into the final year of his contract...or maybe Angelo would have extended him after making the playoffs in 2011.
Depending on who the Bears hire, Cutler's broken thumb may have been a blessing in disguise.
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McCoy and Armstrong will get interviews with Bears this weekend.
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Looks like Reid to Cards.
But, big news now is that John Gruden has the itch again. Maybe to Eagles or Chargers.
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McCoy and Armstrong will get interviews with Bears this weekend.
Keith Armstrong = Rooney Rule
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Either the NFL has to drop the Rooney rule, or it has to tell its owners to be serious about it and not just pay lip service. I mean, the Cardinals interview Ray Horton...the defensive coordinator on a staff it just fired. Does anyone seriously think that was anything but a Rooney Rule interview?
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Either the NFL has to drop the Rooney rule, or it has to tell its owners to be serious about it and not just pay lip service. I mean, the Cardinals interview Ray Horton...the defensive coordinator on a staff it just fired. Does anyone seriously think that was anything but a Rooney Rule interview?
I'm normally against this type of stuff but it does help some even if the team isn't going to hire him. It gives the coach interview experience and also is good PR to get his name thrown around as a coach candidate. In the rare cases, it allows the coach to prove himself and may be considered for future lower jobs by the team.
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I'm normally against this type of stuff but it does help some even if the team isn't going to hire him. It gives the coach interview experience and also is good PR to get his name thrown around as a coach candidate. In the rare cases, it allows the coach to prove himself and may be considered for future lower jobs by the team.
If i were a minority, I am not sure how i would feel about being interviewed only because I was a minority and had no chance at the job. Obviously the intent is good and maybe it does help in some ways as you say.
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Just placed my bet on Green Bay.
Joe Webb to start at QB for Vikes. Ponder out.
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Just placed my bet on Green Bay.
Joe Webb to start at QB for Vikes. Ponder out.
They shouldn't even play this game. GB by 30+.
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They shouldn't even play this game. GB by 30+.
I certainly hope so. I'm taking Mrs. CA to a bar to watch it with all I can eat pizza and all I can drink Lakefront beer for $10, so I better not lose my appetite...
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Christian Ponder isn't exactly a superstar. Webb may add to their running game.
Lets Go Pack!
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I certainly hope so. I'm taking Mrs. CA to a bar to watch it with all I can eat pizza and all I can drink Lakefront beer for $10, so I better not lose my appetite...
You'll need to drink your money's worth and more, young fella.
SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!
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Seriously? The game's been over for over an hour, and nobody wants to chime in?
Crickets.
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Seriously? The game's been over for over an hour, and nobody wants to chime in?
Crickets.
Chime in after a trivial practice session? :D
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http://deadspin.com/5973467/whimsical-local-news-segment-on-the-vikings-turns-violent-hilarious
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San Fran opening as 3 point favorite.
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"Fed Ex Field looked great today!"
-Chicago Park District
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"Fed Ex Field looked great today!"
-Chicago Park District
Painted gravel. What a disgrace. Is there not a field quality requirement in the NFL?
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Did RG3 shred his knee completely or just sprain. Never saw any info after the game.
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Did RG3 shred his knee completely or just sprain. Never saw any info after the game.
It certainly looked like it said, "Eff this. I'm done."
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If that was Cutler, they would be ripping him on outside the lines for not going after the fumble.
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Painted gravel. What a disgrace. Is there not a field quality requirement in the NFL?
Yes. I don't know the details, but the NFL wants them to drain water well so they don't freeze. That means they usually have a sand base to them. Unfortunately that means that they can get shredded up.
I personally think that the NFL should require limited number of non-NFL competitions during the season or else install fieldturf. If you look at Green Bay, they didn't have to replace a bit of that turf this year because of how they take care of their field.
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Yes. I don't know the details, but the NFL wants them to drain water well so they don't freeze. That means they usually have a sand base to them. Unfortunately that means that they can get shredded up.
I personally think that the NFL should require limited number of non-NFL competitions during the season or else install fieldturf. If you look at Green Bay, they didn't have to replace a bit of that turf this year because of how they take care of their field.
NFL needs to start looking at these fields for sure. Chicago had a better year, but nothing great. Some better standards should be developed.
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If that was Cutler, they would be ripping him on outside the lines for not going after the fumble.
http://chicago.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/so-christian-ponder-misses-saturdays-game-with-a-phantom-injury-rgiii-shouldve-come-out-in-the-2nd-quarter-with-a-sprained-knee-and-cutler-is-still-a-kitten-for-the-2011-nfc-championship-game/
where are all the tweets and media hate for ponder or rg3?
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Yes. I don't know the details, but the NFL wants them to drain water well so they don't freeze. That means they usually have a sand base to them. Unfortunately that means that they can get shredded up.
I personally think that the NFL should require limited number of non-NFL competitions during the season or else install fieldturf. If you look at Green Bay, they didn't have to replace a bit of that turf this year because of how they take care of their field.
Agree that maintenance is the key, but proper care can only go so far when dealing with natural grass. A bad rain during an early-season game, unseasonable heat/cold for the specific species during the summer months, quality of the sod, etc. can all tank a field regardless of how many master groundskeepers a team has on staff.
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http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/super-page/so-christian-ponder-misses-saturdays-game-with-a-phantom-injury-rgiii-shouldve-come-out-in-the-2nd-quarter-with-a-sprained-knee-and-cutler-is-still-a-kitten-for-the-2011-nfc-championship-game/
where are all the tweets and media hate for ponder or rg3?
They are not as surly, moody, and whiny enough to merit media hate.
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http://chicago.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/so-christian-ponder-misses-saturdays-game-with-a-phantom-injury-rgiii-shouldve-come-out-in-the-2nd-quarter-with-a-sprained-knee-and-cutler-is-still-a-kitten-for-the-2011-nfc-championship-game/
where are all the tweets and media hate for ponder or rg3?
Griffin is a young, fun, affable guy and he was still out there competing despite a visible limp. That earns people's respect even though the team likely would have been better off with Cousins in the game at 100% as opposed to Griffin at maybe 65% after he first injured the knee. There was also a play that clearly showed where he got hurt. Cutler's was more of a mysterious injury that happened at some point in the game. If Cutler had gotten rolled up on a specific play and the injury was seen by the masses, it would have been very different.
As for Christian Ponder, no one cares about Christian Ponder.
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Looks like a partial tear of ACL and LCL for RG III. Unless he pulls an Adrian Peterson miracle, not looking good.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2013/01/07/robert-griffin-iii-has-partial-tears-of-acl-and-lcl-mri-suggests/?wpisrc=al_national
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The more I think about and analyze Pack/Niners, the more I like the Pack. I didn't think it at the time, but that game last week I think helped the Packers going forward. They weren't physically beaten up at all, it was almost like an exhibition game. Their offense got to stay in rhythm, got guys back, I think all of that benefits them Saturday night.
No better game this weekend. I think both AFC games are going to be blowouts. My only concern is the game coming down to a late Crosby FG attempt.
Could see a re-match of the Fail Mary game on Champ weekend.
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San Fran is a PED dream on defense. I don't think we can move the ball consistently on them.
They avg. 5.1 rushing ypc, 3rd in the league. We give up 4.5 ypc, 26th in the league.
SF's D is 3rd against the pass. Unfortunately, we probably need a couple turnovers.
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About those field conditions at FedEx:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/08/nfl-requires-certification-of-field-fitness-within-72-hours-of-kickoff/
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Looks like a partial tear of ACL and LCL for RG III. Unless he pulls an Adrian Peterson miracle, not looking good.
I honestly have no idea how Mike Shannahan has his job today. Having your franchise rookie QB out there at maybe 50% is Stupid at best, while negligent is A more apt description. He could barely walk, let alone run or pass. What's worse, you basically had Kirk Cousins (on whom the Redskins spent a 4th round pick) staked to a 14-0 lead early. I understand its the playoffs, but he was completely ineffective, and they clearly put him at risk of greater injury.
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Two NFL fields, same day, thirty miles apart:
http://twitpic.com/btcc4w
I didn't realize AP blew out his knee at FedEx Field.
RGIII is in a world of hurt.
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Two NFL fields, same day, thirty miles apart:
http://twitpic.com/btcc4w
I didn't realize AP blew out his knee at FedEx Field.
RGIII is in a world of hurt.
Don't the ravens play on turf? a bit unfair to compare grass and turf
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Don't the ravens play on turf? a bit unfair to compare grass and turf
Yes, but my point is the NFL needs to tighten up field standards.
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San Fran is a PED dream on defense. I don't think we can move the ball consistently on them.
They avg. 5.1 rushing ypc, 3rd in the league. We give up 4.5 ypc, 26th in the league.
SF's D is 3rd against the pass. Unfortunately, we probably need a couple turnovers.
"Probably?"
The Packers' defense is entirely dependent on getting turnovers. That is what I have been saying since you brought out the ypc stat. The Packer's defense is based on chaos and disruption...not "stop." (Since the ypc stat was about the same two years ago when they actually won the Super Bowl.)
The Packers have only won one game in the McCarthy era in which it didn't create a turnover - and that was this season against the Saints.
So I will say that the Packers will most assuredly *not* win without creating at least one turnover.
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couple meaning more than one= exceeding their year avg. in takeaways. We need to exceed our avg. takeaways against SF.
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The Packers entire strategy should be 2 things:
#1 Keep Rogers upright and unhurt.
#2 Give Rogers the ball as often as possible.
If the offensive line can do #1, and if the defense can do #2 (either turnovers or quick 3&out possessions) the Packers will win the Superbowl.
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Justin Smith's effectiveness could be the biggest factor.
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The Packers entire strategy should be 2 things:
#1 Keep Rogers upright and unhurt.
#2 Give Rogers the ball as often as possible.
If the offensive line can do #1, and if the defense can do #2 (either turnovers or quick 3&out possessions) the Packers will win the Superbowl.
Isn't that pretty much the strategy of every team? To acomplish #1 the Packers will have to run the ball effectively.
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Hey MUDish... Have you heard anything about Marc Trestman to the Bears? Apparently, Jimmy Johnson has been tweeting about it.
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Hey MUDish... Have you heard anything about Marc Trestman to the Bears? Apparently, Jimmy Johnson has been tweeting about it.
Heard it on the radio this morning as well, supposedly it is a done deal. Maybe a good choice I don't know but certainly not one that will jazz up the fans.
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Hey MUDish... Have you heard anything about Marc Trestman to the Bears? Apparently, Jimmy Johnson has been tweeting about it.
Alouettes!
Sounds like Emery wants someone to work on Cutler.
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Listened to a bit about Tressman on Chi sports radio this morning. Could be a good hire, lots of praise about him from many, many coaches in the league.
Interesting though that Emery is still meeting with Dennison (Houston OC), Bevell (Seahawks OC) and Arians (Colts OC) this weekend.
BTW, has a GM ever met with 13(?) candidates for a HC position before? At least, it's 13 that have been publicly announced
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Listened to a bit about Tressman on Chi sports radio this morning. Could be a good hire, lots of praise about him from many, many coaches in the league.
Interesting though that Emery is still meeting with Dennison (Houston OC), Bevell (Seahawks OC) and Arians (Colts OC) this weekend.
BTW, has a GM ever met with 13(?) candidates for a HC position before? At least, it's 13 that have been publicly announced
Arians would be hilarious - his system let Big Rape Ben get killed. His system will probably get Luck killed (if he stays) and Cutler has already been getting killed due to Martz and that porous offensive line.
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BTW, has a GM ever met with 13(?) candidates for a HC position before? At least, it's 13 that have been publicly announced
What concerns me most is that Phil Emery has worked for 3 NFL teams over 15 years and he doesn't have a guy at the top of his list who he wants to hire and who he knows will take the job. It's also a bit odd that the candidates are all over the board in terms of background - some OCs, some DCs, special teams guys, CFL head coaches. It makes me wonder if he even knows what he's looking for.
That said, it doesn't matter if Emery brings in 100 candidates as long as he hires the right coach.
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That said, it doesn't matter if Emery brings in 100 candidates as long as he hires the right coach.
Absolutely true. I've also heard some speculation that Emery may have a guy or two at the top of his list, but he's taking this opportunity to get some free consulting on what other coaches/teams think of the Bears and how they might fix the problems. It's not a bad hypothesis, if true - get a bunch of top level NFL minds explaining how to fix problems, then hire the guy you wanted all along and institute a plan that combines all the suggestions.
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Absolutely true. I've also heard some speculation that Emery may have a guy or two at the top of his list, but he's taking this opportunity to get some free consulting on what other coaches/teams think of the Bears and how they might fix the problems. It's not a bad hypothesis, if true - get a bunch of top level NFL minds explaining how to fix problems, then hire the guy you wanted all along and institute a plan that combines all the suggestions.
How to fix the Bears:
1. Trade Matt Forte for whatever you can get for him... Draft picks ideally (probably will settle for less than expected)
2. Draft focus on OL and DL... and a TE
3. Sign veteran OL and DL guys on the cheap that can be a stop gap until drafted players mature
4. Dump Devin Hester already... if he doesn't walk out the door on his own.
I know the defense is old, but it is still fairly solid. The problem is that atrocious OL. If you protect Cutler, he can get the ball to his WRs, and TEs
RB is a totally replaceable position outside of AP. As long as you have a great OL, you can have a great running game.
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A good OL keeps the offense on the field longer...which allows the defense to rest.
That being said, I think the main problem with the Bears defense is that the Cover-2 is generally shredded by good offenses these days.
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How to fix the Bears:
1. Trade Matt Forte for whatever you can get for him... Draft picks ideally (probably will settle for less than expected)
2. Draft focus on OL and DL... and a TE
3. Sign veteran OL and DL guys on the cheap that can be a stop gap until drafted players mature
4. Dump Devin Hester already... if he doesn't walk out the door on his own.
I know the defense is old, but it is still fairly solid. The problem is that atrocious OL. If you protect Cutler, he can get the ball to his WRs, and TEs
RB is a totally replaceable position outside of AP. As long as you have a great OL, you can have a great running game.
1. The very best the Bears would get for Forte would be a 2nd and 4th, but likely less. Forte did seem to be missing something this season.
2. This draft seems to be deep in OL so that's a good start. Another pass rusher is a must, especially with Peppers getting up there. Kellen Davis is awful. Cut him now. MLB is another place the Bears need to look in the draft.
3. Jonathan Scott did a respectable job last season in this role...except that there are no young players coming along behind him. I really wonder if Carimi is as bad as he looked this season or if his knee never fully recovered. I'm not ready to give up on him yet. Webb? See ya!
4. Hester is likely gone. Even with all that he accomplished as a returner, it's a shame that he didn't do more. The Bears wasted 2-3 years trying to turn him into a #1 WR instead of letting him be a returner while finding creative ways to get him the ball on O (or just leaving him on D as a dime back).
The D played well this season but there were definitely times where their age showed (particularly the Seattle game).
The Bears biggest issue overall is that their window is closing. Emery needs to decide if he's going to blow it up, go young and start building through the draft or if he's going to bring in big name FAs like Jake Long, Dwayne Bowe, etc (even if he has to overpay) and try to win now. Building a perpetual fringe playoff team isn't going to get the job done.
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1. The very best the Bears would get for Forte would be a 2nd and 4th, but likely less. Forte did seem to be missing something this season.
2. This draft seems to be deep in OL so that's a good start. Another pass rusher is a must, especially with Peppers getting up there. Kellen Davis is awful. Cut him now. MLB is another place the Bears need to look in the draft.
3. Jonathan Scott did a respectable job last season in this role...except that there are no young players coming along behind him. I really wonder if Carimi is as bad as he looked this season or if his knee never fully recovered. I'm not ready to give up on him yet. Webb? See ya!
4. Hester is likely gone. Even with all that he accomplished as a returner, it's a shame that he didn't do more. The Bears wasted 2-3 years trying to turn him into a #1 WR instead of letting him be a returner while finding creative ways to get him the ball on O (or just leaving him on D as a dime back).
The D played well this season but there were definitely times where their age showed (particularly the Seattle game).
The Bears biggest issue overall is that their window is closing. Emery needs to decide if he's going to blow it up, go young and start building through the draft or if he's going to bring in big name FAs like Jake Long, Dwayne Bowe, etc (even if he has to overpay) and try to win now. Building a perpetual fringe playoff team isn't going to get the job done.
Agree on all counts... I feel like the Bears are like the Bucks in the NBA.... never good enough to do any playoff damage, but not bad enough to get a great draft pick. IMO stay away from big name FAs unless they can get Jake Long.
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Isn't that pretty much the strategy of every team? To acomplish #1 the Packers will have to run the ball effectively.
No, that is not the strategy of every team. Every team doesn't have A-Rog.
Get the ball to him as much as possible, even if that means gambling a lot of defense and getting into a shootout.
Give Rogers 1 or 2 extra possessions, and they will win.
It's a bit like Loyola Marymount. You might score 120, but they will score 150.
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Let's see both jagoff Harbaugh brothers go down today!!!
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Kaepernick is ridiculous. So, we're supposed to believe that the (read) option offense can't succeed in the NFL? Bullcrap. Chip Kelly could definitely successfully translate his offense to the pros.
Did Harbaugh run the read option at Stanford? I don't think he did at all under Luck. Impressive that he's able to do it now.
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I think the Packers really have to question if Dom Capers needs to be replaced. This defensive performance today was pitiful.
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I think the Packers really have to question if Dom Capers needs to be replaced. This defensive performance today was pitiful.
He needs to go. Completely outclassed.
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I think the Packers really have to question if Dom Capers needs to be replaced. This defensive performance today was pitiful.
https://twitter.com/sportspickle/status/290310110281080832
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Let's see both jagoff Harbaugh brothers go down today!!!
I listened to an interview with Jack (he lives in Milwaukee) earlier this week. He was confident, and rightly so, about his sons in these two games.
Got to give them credit.
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The sad truth is the NFL is a steroids/HGH haven and it fuels this combative game. It's the part of the game most fans don't think about or don't want to think about.
Packers defense has been pretty soft for awhile. I think getting a new S&C coach could be extremely beneficial, especially in the trenches. TT will have to go heavy on D again. I wouldn't make Capers the scapegoat, TT and Capers will have to figure this out.
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I listened to an interview with Jack (he lives in Milwaukee) earlier this week. He was confident, and rightly so, about his sons in these two games.
Got to give them credit.
A father wouldn't ever be confident in his sons? And i'm not so sure about "rightly so" when it comes to John.
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The sad truth is the NFL is a steroids/HGH haven and it fuels this combative game. It's the part of the game most fans don't think about or don't want to think about.
Packers defense has been pretty soft for awhile. I think getting a new S&C coach could be extremely beneficial, especially in the trenches. TT will have to go heavy on D again. I wouldn't make Capers the scapegoat, TT and Capers will have to figure this out.
Are you saying the 49ers won only because they use (more) steroids?
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A father wouldn't ever be confident in his sons? And i'm not so sure about "rightly so" when it comes to John.
Well, the oddsmakers had the Ravens 10 point dogs and many were picking the Packers over the 49ers. They both won their games...yes, a father should be confident in his sons but he was more than confident...it was like he knew the Ravens were going to win and not many were making that prediction this week. He actually sounded more confident about that game than the 49ers game.
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GO NINERS!
Though the Seahawks will be a tough out.
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I think the Packers really have to question if Dom Capers needs to be replaced. This defensive performance today was pitiful.
If capers is still the packers Def Coordinator by mid-week, I'll be shocked. There is no way he'll be back. Love Smith to the Packers?
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If capers is still the packers Def Coordinator by mid-week, I'll be shocked. There is no way he'll be back. Love Smith to the Packers?
I would think Lovie still wants a shot at a head job.
Mel Tucker to the Packers?
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I think the Packers really have to question if Dom Capers needs to be replaced. This defensive performance today was pitiful.
Amen, brother, amen.
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No, that is not the strategy of every team. Every team doesn't have A-Rog.
Get the ball to him as much as possible, even if that means gambling a lot of defense and getting into a shootout.
Give Rogers 1 or 2 extra possessions, and they will win.
It's a bit like Loyola Marymount. You might score 120, but they will score 150.
Keeping the QB upright and giving your offense as many chances as possible is pretty much the strategy of every team. Tell me one team that wants to get their QB sacked and keep their defense on the field as long as possible.
You could make the Loyola comparison last year to some degree mainly because the defense was so bad. That is not how they played this year. The defense up until yesterday was much better. The offense has transformed into a short passing game and run offense because so many teams were playing them with cover 2. Look at the what defense gave up in points and yards this year compared to last, not exactly a "loyola" defense.
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If capers is still the packers Def Coordinator by mid-week, I'll be shocked. There is no way he'll be back. Love Smith to the Packers?
No way capers should be back. He has run his course, they need a fresh start. I would be surprised if the packers replace him though, it is not typical of how they operate.
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Are you saying the 49ers won only because they use (more) steroids?
I was talking about improving the Packers D. We haven't been able to run the ball and have been getting pushed around for awhile. All aspects of a football program need to be looked at. Improved strength in the trenches would be beneficial.
Capers saved TT when he first came in, now he's a bum. Our defenses haven't been that great under TT, so perhaps it's more of a systemic problem, than a draft pick here or there.
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As an impartial observer, I think you have equally as many issues on the offensive line. Rodgers sacked 60 times this year...that's really really bad.
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Keeping the QB upright and giving your offense as many chances as possible is pretty much the strategy of every team. Tell me one team that wants to get their QB sacked and keep their defense on the field as long as possible.
You could make the Loyola comparison last year to some degree mainly because the defense was so bad. That is not how they played this year. The defense up until yesterday was much better. The offense has transformed into a short passing game and run offense because so many teams were playing them with cover 2. Look at the what defense gave up in points and yards this year compared to last, not exactly a "loyola" defense.
Yes, and no.
The Vikes certainly aren't trying to get the ball to Ponder as often as possible. They are trying to control the line of scrimmage, run the clock, and shorten the game. Same for Baltimore. Flacco is a nice player, but they won/win by trying to control the line of scrimmage and having good offensive balance.
SF didn't try to win the game with Kapernick's arm, but rather with his feet. They controlled the line of scrimmage, keep the Pack off balance, mixed in throws when necessary.
With Rogers, the Packers need to do everything possible to get him throwing opportunities. He's the most accurate QB I've ever seen. Throw. Throw. Throw.
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Yes, and no.
The Vikes certainly aren't trying to get the ball to Ponder as often as possible. They are trying to control the line of scrimmage, run the clock, and shorten the game. Same for Baltimore. Flacco is a nice player, but they won/win by trying to control the line of scrimmage and having good offensive balance.
SF didn't try to win the game with Kapernick's arm, but rather with his feet. They controlled the line of scrimmage, keep the Pack off balance, mixed in throws when necessary.
With Rogers, the Packers need to do everything possible to get him throwing opportunities. He's the most accurate QB I've ever seen. Throw. Throw. Throw.
Right, every team has its play maker. The days of the packers running the ball 9 times a game are over. That offense is much different than week one. Give mac credit for evolving on the fly. Rogers will be the guy they live and die with no doubt, but to keep him vertical and effective they will need to run the ball and/or short check downs.
Do you think capers is back? That def game plan was pathetic, to me it was more on the prep and scheme and not execution
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As an impartial observer, I think you have equally as many issues on the offensive line. Rodgers sacked 60 times this year...that's really really bad.
I would agree except for last night. The o line played pretty well and the defense sucked. They are playing with a undrafted free agent at right tackle and a servicable center and right tackle at best. They will have to upgrade there for sure
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Was it a bad plan, or bad execution?
McCarthy seems to think the latter
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/186646451.html
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Right, every team has its play maker. The days of the packers running the ball 9 times a game are over. That offense is much different than week one. Give mac credit for evolving on the fly. Rogers will be the guy they live and die with no doubt, but to keep him vertical and effective they will need to run the ball and/or short check downs.
Do you think capers is back? That def game plan was pathetic, to me it was more on the prep and scheme and not execution
Well, that's my whole point. Rogers might be the best playmaker the NFL has ever seen.
I know this goes against tried and true football cliches, but I think the Packers should just ditch the run game all together. Get the best linemen you can find, and throw the ball 65+ times per game. Run no huddle as much as possible.
I know that nobody will try this because it's super risky, but seriously, I wouldn't even waste my time running the ball if I had a QB that could throw like that.
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Well, that's my whole point. Rogers might be the best playmaker the NFL has ever seen.
I know this goes against tried and true football cliches, but I think the Packers should just ditch the run game all together. Get the best linemen you can find, and throw the ball 65+ times per game. Run no huddle as much as possible.
I know that nobody will try this because it's super risky, but seriously, I wouldn't even waste my time running the ball if I had a QB that could throw like that.
You'll make it a lot easier for defenses when they know what's coming 100% of the time. No balance, pin the ears back, Rodgers would be dead by the middle of the season.
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You'll make it a lot easier for defenses when they know what's coming 100% of the time. No balance, pin the ears back, Rodgers would be dead by the middle of the season.
Everybody knows you are passing on 3rd and 5, and teams still figure out how to pick up first downs.
I'd need a statistician to study it and tell me if 100% passing could work.
Obviously the protections would have to change because you don't have play action or the element of surprise, but in theory, it's possible.
It's sort of like the evolving views in baseball. Sacrifices were once considered automatic. Now, they aren't. A "running game" was once considered automatic, but maybe it's a waste of a play. You have a finite number of plays in a game, so why waste it on a running play?
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So do I have a little company out there now? Anyone still think that McCarthy is a great coach?
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This is the beautiful thing. You can assign blame to whoever you want.
McCarthy is the one who makes this team above average. He is an offensive coach who I feel is a great developer of the qb position and has a great offensive design.
However, when you can never get a consistent push on both lines you will struggle to win. The team needs to improve its strength and power along the lines.
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So do I have a little company out there now? Anyone still think that McCarthy is a great coach?
I think he is a very good coach.
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So do I have a little company out there now? Anyone still think that McCarthy is a great coach?
Pretty easily one of the top 3-5 coaches in the NFL.
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Everybody knows you are passing on 3rd and 5, and teams still figure out how to pick up first downs.
I'd need a statistician to study it and tell me if 100% passing could work.
Obviously the protections would have to change because you don't have play action or the element of surprise, but in theory, it's possible.
It's sort of like the evolving views in baseball. Sacrifices were once considered automatic. Now, they aren't. A "running game" was once considered automatic, but maybe it's a waste of a play. You have a finite number of plays in a game, so why waste it on a running play?
I disagree, 3rd and five according to the stats teams still run it 18% of the time.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3140/2798330394_924631fd71.jpg?v=0) (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3270/2797485933_bd0d989203.jpg?v=0)
The problem with passing all the time is also time of possession. You keep your defense on the field all the time. You don't wear out the other team, you wear out your own defense, you put your qb in jeopardy way too much.
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I'll admit, I'm a bitter, downtrodden Packer fan. BUT, I am very pleased that Seattle lost. Did Carroll really try to deny that he called a time out on the end of game field goal?
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I'll admit, I'm a bitter, downtrodden Packer fan. BUT, I am very pleased that Seattle lost. Did Carroll really try to deny that he called a time out on the end of game field goal?
Yeah, that was pathetic.
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I'll admit, I'm a bitter, downtrodden Packer fan. BUT, I am very pleased that Seattle lost. Did Carroll really try to deny that he called a time out on the end of game field goal?
That dude is such a slimeball douchebag (excuse the language) it's not even funny. That picture of him standing next to the ref, both of them signaling a touchdown, at the end of the Packers game sums him up completely http://www.packerforum.com/threads/did-the-nfl-ever-think-it-would-get-this-bad.39378/ (bottom of the article, can't figure out how to embed the picture itself). Would any other coach in the NFL have done that? Even if the correct call had been made (it wasn't), an NFL coach would maybe show excitement, but not like that. That's something a 5 year old would've done. And there are some real clowns that coach in the NFL (Schwartz, the Harbaughs come to mind).
Thank God they lost. If the 4 coaches left in the Playoffs had been Pete Carroll, the Harbaughs, and Bill Belichick I wouldn't have watched another football game this year. Now at least I can stand one of the teams/coaches.
I hate the Bears and the Vikings, but at least they had/have respectable, classy coaches now. "Chilli" was just too easy to make fun of, so at times I miss that guy, but Frazier seems like a good guy and Lovie did too. Schwartz? Well, no. And all of these teams take on the personalities of their coaches big time. Lions? Thugs. 9ers? Big time trash talking, dirty team (well coached, no doubt, but complete punks). Ravens? Same deal. Patriots? Completely condescending. Seahawks? I guess I don't really have a problem with their players. But I definitely do with their coach.
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I'll admit, I'm a bitter, downtrodden Packer fan. BUT, I am very pleased that Seattle lost. Did Carroll really try to deny that he called a time out on the end of game field goal?
Total guess here... but I thought he might have been upset that the Falcons snapped the ball and Bryant took the kick, seeing as how the refs signaled for timeout way before the ball was snapped. He may have thought it was unfair that Bryant got a free practice kick seeing as they called the TO so early.
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Carroll was upset at the practice kick. He was told before the game practice kicks wouldn't be allowed. That's what he was upset about.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000125862/article/pete-carroll-officials-said-practice-kicks-wouldnt-be-allowed?campaign=Twitter_atl
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Would not put it past him to make that up.
How the hell would refs be able to stop a practice kick?
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Wades, you think sf and bal talk trash but you are ok with Sea?? Richard sherman may talk more trash than any player I have seen this season.
Pete Carroll should be mad at his OC who decided to turn Russell Wilson into a dropback qb for the first half. It seems they forgot that the zone option/spread option/whatever they call it was actually pretty effective. Oh, that and their pathetic clock management at the half.
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Would not put it past him to make that up.
How the hell would refs be able to stop a practice kick?
If you watch the video, the timeout is called and he has no issue, then Bryant kicks the ball and that's when he gets hot.
Nothing made up. Whether he is right or wrong on the practice stuff is another story, but he certainly wasn't complaining about the timeout. I can't stand the guy, but I'm not going to bury him for something he didn't do. The television announcers were just flat out wrong. ESPN has a nice angle on it tonight with their video...anyone that watches that and comes away thinking he was complaining about the timeout will look foolish.
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I disagree, 3rd and five according to the stats teams still run it 18% of the time.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3140/2798330394_924631fd71.jpg?v=0) (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3270/2797485933_bd0d989203.jpg?v=0)
The problem with passing all the time is also time of possession. You keep your defense on the field all the time. You don't wear out the other team, you wear out your own defense, you put your qb in jeopardy way too much.
The time of possession issue would be a concern, no doubt. Law of unintended consequences.
As far as putting the QB in too much jeopardy, I think that's just a cliche that we all buy into. A good team and innovative coordinator could figure out how to mix in enough max protect and short screen passes to keep a defense off of the QB.
Volume of sacks would go up (65passin attempts per game), but if the percentage of sacks stayed the same, then the risk might be worth it.
It'll never happen, but an innovative coach/coordinator could do something interesting. Maybe Cobb is the starting RB?
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Every team has trash talkers and condescending players....as well as players that are quiet which seldom make the news. When you think of the Cowboys in the 1990's, you saw arrogant Michael Irvin or arrogant defensive players, rarely did people focus on quiet Aikman, church going Moose Johnston, etc. Just the nature of the beast. The better the team, the more the trash talking players are highlighted in the media. The better the team, the more the personality of the coaches are put out there in the spotlight...for better or worse.
I would love to have either Harbaugh as my head coach. As much as I can't stand Carroll, would love to have him as well. They are winners...they find a way to motivate football players to win games. Seattle was a complete joke a few years ago, and they were seconds away from playing in a game to go to the Super Bowl. It took huge juevos to spend all that money on Flynn and start a rookie QB. Have to tip the hat to the guy as a football coach. Harbaugh, same deal, benches Smith who was playing fine in the middle of the season. Gigantic juevos...and now he's playing to go to the Super Bowl. I'd love to have a coach like that.
For the McCarthy lovers and certain former MU coach haters, remember they are close. Kind of ironic, in some ways.
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saw the video. Of course he's not going to argue until he misses that doesn't prove anything. He's arguing with the guy he called the time out with as well.
Either way, if Carroll wasn't such a slime ball I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. In this case I won't.
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I'll admit, I'm a bitter, downtrodden Packer fan. BUT, I am very pleased that Seattle lost.
I'm with you. Ball don't lie, Seattle.
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"And the Seahawks are out...GOOD!"
(http://www.packerforum.com/attachments/pc-jpg.1926/)
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I thought Carroll made a bunch of errors in judgment that cost them that game.
I know this doesn't make a ton of sense, but I would have taken a knee if I was Seattle after the 12 men on the field penalty (on the play where Lynch scored/fumbled at the goal line). There were 34 seconds left, Seattle had two timeouts. Obviously they're giving up one play, but there was too much time left there. They could have taken a knee at the Atlanta 2, then called timeout with 18 seconds left. It would have set up 2nd and goal from the two, 18 ticks, two timeouts. If anything, Atlanta would have had a decision to make. Burn one of their timeouts or not.
Second decision I would have made if I was Carroll is the reverse icing of the kicker. I would have trotted Longwell out with 2 seconds left, told him "I'm going to call timeout before you kick, but kick it anyway" to see if he had the leg to hit from 65 on the final play.
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Second decision I would have made if I was Carroll is the reverse icing of the kicker. I would have trotted Longwell out with 2 seconds left, told him "I'm going to call timeout before you kick, but kick it anyway" to see if he had the leg to hit from 65 on the final play.
This is a hell of an idea. Has any coach tried this before? It's kind of brilliant, actually. Like throwing a challenge flag on a touchdown/turnover play of your own team, to negate the automatic official's challenge (if you know you'd lose the challenge and take the TD off the board/turnover away) - can't wait for some coach to try that one.
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At the peak of his career, Ryan Longwell couldn't kick a 65 yard field goal....with a hurricane force wind at his back.
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This is a hell of an idea. Has any coach tried this before? It's kind of brilliant, actually. Like throwing a challenge flag on a touchdown/turnover play of your own team, to negate the automatic official's challenge (if you know you'd lose the challenge and take the TD off the board/turnover away) - can't wait for some coach to try that one.
A coach may get away with it once but I'm sure they will give a penalty after a league warning. Hell, the refs will probably tell the coach if his own player kicks the ball its an unsportsmanlike conduct the first time the coach tries it.
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Now that Jesmu84 ruined it.
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I thought Carroll made a bunch of errors in judgment that cost them that game.
I know this doesn't make a ton of sense, but I would have taken a knee if I was Seattle after the 12 men on the field penalty (on the play where Lynch scored/fumbled at the goal line). There were 34 seconds left, Seattle had two timeouts. Obviously they're giving up one play, but there was too much time left there. They could have taken a knee at the Atlanta 2, then called timeout with 18 seconds left. It would have set up 2nd and goal from the two, 18 ticks, two timeouts. If anything, Atlanta would have had a decision to make. Burn one of their timeouts or not.
Second decision I would have made if I was Carroll is the reverse icing of the kicker. I would have trotted Longwell out with 2 seconds left, told him "I'm going to call timeout before you kick, but kick it anyway" to see if he had the leg to hit from 65 on the final play.
I respect your football opinion but I could not disagree with you anymore on the bolded point. You cannot worry about leaving X amount of time on the clock when you are losing and need a touchdown. If all you need is a field goal to win the game then absolutely you can take a knee, get it into the middle of the field, and run the time down so that it is a game winner (or loser), but when you need to get into the end zone you doso with 34 seconds left without even considering anything else. You are risking way too much in playing with the clock. The time doesn't matter if you don't get into the end zone. The more plays you run, the more chances of fumbling the ball, wasting downs and thus not getting into the end zone, etc. you have. You can't waste opportunities to get into the end zone to worry about leaving time on the clock, especially when it's just 34 seconds left. 2nd down and goal at the 2 is far, far from a guarantee to score a touchdown. You take the points as soon as you can and you take your chances with your defense.
Every team has trash talkers and condescending players....as well as players that are quiet which seldom make the news. When you think of the Cowboys in the 1990's, you saw arrogant Michael Irvin or arrogant defensive players, rarely did people focus on quiet Aikman, church going Moose Johnston, etc. Just the nature of the beast. The better the team, the more the trash talking players are highlighted in the media. The better the team, the more the personality of the coaches are put out there in the spotlight...for better or worse.
I would love to have either Harbaugh as my head coach. As much as I can't stand Carroll, would love to have him as well. They are winners...they find a way to motivate football players to win games. Seattle was a complete joke a few years ago, and they were seconds away from playing in a game to go to the Super Bowl. It took huge juevos to spend all that money on Flynn and start a rookie QB. Have to tip the hat to the guy as a football coach. Harbaugh, same deal, benches Smith who was playing fine in the middle of the season. Gigantic juevos...and now he's playing to go to the Super Bowl. I'd love to have a coach like that.
For the McCarthy lovers and certain former MU coach haters, remember they are close. Kind of ironic, in some ways.
Agreed that every NFL team has their trash talkers and every NFL team has their quiet, humble guys. But to say all teams are equal in terms of that is just wrong. The 49ers and Packers both had quite a bit of hype surrounding them throughout the entire season and neither 1 was considered significantly better or worse than the other, so I don't think one team is having their trash talking players highlighted more than the other because they are a better team. Just look at the difference between the two teams in terms of their on field antics. The 49ers are punching players helmets every single time they wrap up a ball carrier as they are taking them to the ground. They play as dirty as I have seen a team in quite some time (which is also 1 of the reasons they are so good...incredibly aggressive team). They talk non stop. I have never seen Greg Jennings go running up to get in a defender's face and he did it 2 or 3 times in 1 series. I doubt he just decided that he would start doing that from now on. They go sprinting at the ref at every single call that goes against them, no matter how blatant the call was. There was a helmet to helmet call against the 49ers in the middle of a pile that the replay showed was a CLEAR helmet to helmet hit (somebody hit Harris as he was falling forward while being tackled) and you see Harbaugh SCREAMING "THAT'S F*CKING BULLSH!T!!" How could Harbaugh possibly know that? There was absolutely 0% chance he saw what the call was. And it was as clear as day that it was the correct call on the replay, and I'm guessing the ref didn't just take a random stab and ironically get it right. That's how every single call against them went the whole night, and the whole team reacted the same way every single time. Even stupid stuff like the difference between touchdown celebrations. Aaron Rodgers does a cheesy, sarcastic "Title Belt" while Collin Kaepernik flexes his muscles and "kisses" them. The only person who I can think of that acts relatively close to the way the entire 49ers team acts is Jermichael Finley, who is a complete idiot.
And how about the Lions? They were OK for 1 year in the last like 20, and yet they are all over the media because of all of the trash talk, dirty play, and legal issues they have going on. And Schwartz is the same way as Harbaugh does on the sidelines.
The ending of the Seahawks vs. Packers game is another perfect example of the difference between teams. Carroll is out on the field making the call along with the refs and then talking about what a great play Golden Tate made and what a great throw Russell Wilson made while McCarthy is ignoring the media attempts to pull him into the controversy, just as his team was. Can you imagine if the rolls were reversed? Carroll (and if it had happened to either Harbaugh or Schwartz) would've been out on the field tackling the ref along with his team, while McCarthy and the Packers players would've been talking about how they won a game because of a call that went their way and how they have a lot of work to do.
See the Harbaugh/Schwartz handshake. Not many NFL coaches would a) get that fired up over a midseason win that he bumps/disrespects the opposing coach during a postgame handshake and b) respond how Schwartz did to it. They're both pricks.
Also, what does McCarthy and Crean being close have to do with anything? And are they even close, or does Crean just think/pretend they're close? Even if they are, you don't have any friends with different personalities than yours? That must be boring.
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I actually don't disagree with what you're saying, I'm saying I would have done that. You're right, the percentages dictate that you should do exactly as you describe. In my own head, I immediately thought they left too much time on the clock (which turned out to be correct). My point is if they did my scenario, they have 3 chances to get the ball in the end zone, when they were at will dictating the style of that game. I won't argue that it's very much against the norm, it certainly is. There was talk by some experts that Atlanta should have let the Seahawks score anyway, which is where I was coming from in regards to my point. I realize the Falcons didn't let them score, but I still would have taken a knee.
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I actually don't disagree with what you're saying, I'm saying I would have done that. You're right, the percentages dictate that you should do exactly as you describe. In my own head, I immediately thought they left too much time on the clock (which turned out to be correct). My point is if they did my scenario, they have 3 chances to get the ball in the end zone, when they were at will dictating the style of that game. I won't argue that it's very much against the norm, it certainly is. There was talk by some experts that Atlanta should have let the Seahawks score anyway, which is where I was coming from in regards to my point. I realize the Falcons didn't let them score, but I still would have taken a knee.
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Bears are down to 3 - Arians, Bevell and Trestman. I think I'd actually prefer Trestman out of that group. Anyone who can make rich Gannon an MVP is a good coach in my book.
Sad to hear Dave Toub left the team.
MUDish - any insight on emery's decision process? Or why Toub decided to leave (for a lateral move)?
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Bears are down to 3 - Arians, Bevell and Trestman. I think I'd actually prefer Trestman out of that group. Anyone who can make rich Gannon an MVP is a good coach in my book.
Sad to hear Dave Toub left the team.
MUDish - any insight on emery's decision process? Or why Toub decided to leave (for a lateral move)?
I hope it's Trestman. Any OC that made Jerry Rice consider retiring is a positive move for the Bears, IMO.
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Trestman it is.
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http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/52391/marc-trestman-hire-outsmarting-the-rest
Boom or Bust. Maybe a bit exaggerated, but certainly not out of the realm of possibility. I also wonder how much Emery's job is tied to the success of the hire.
Aaron Kromer (former Saints offensive line coach/offensive coordinator/interim-interim HC) now Bears Oline coach and O coordinator
http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/8848801/chicago-bears-tap-marc-trestman-former-cfl-coach-year-montreal-alouettes
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Bears are down to 3 - Arians, Bevell and Trestman. I think I'd actually prefer Trestman out of that group. Anyone who can make rich Gannon an MVP is a good coach in my book.
Sad to hear Dave Toub left the team.
MUDish - any insight on emery's decision process? Or why Toub decided to leave (for a lateral move)?
Toub left because he wasn't going to be HC and he wanted to move on. He worked with Reid in Philly before, so it was a natural fit for him to go there.
In the end, Emery went with the guy who (for better or worse) is most like himself. Trestman is very cerebral, perhaps to a fault. Pluses are that he has HC experience, has been successful, had success in the NFL, worked with Cutler before. Interesting hire, outise the box.
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Toub left because he wasn't going to be HC and he wanted to move on. He worked with Reid in Philly before, so it was a natural fit for him to go there.
In the end, Emery went with the guy who (for better or worse) is most like himself. Trestman is very cerebral, perhaps to a fault. Pluses are that he has HC experience, has been successful, had success in the NFL, worked with Cutler before. Interesting hire, outise the box.
When did Trestman work with Cutler before?
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When did Trestman work with Cutler before?
http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/8848801/chicago-bears-tap-marc-trestman-former-cfl-coach-year-montreal-alouettes
"In addition to his duties as a coach, Trestman works during the offseason to prepare college quarterbacks for the NFL draft. Trestman worked with Jay Cutler and Bears backup Jason Campbell before their respective drafts."
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http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/8848801/chicago-bears-tap-marc-trestman-former-cfl-coach-year-montreal-alouettes
"In addition to his duties as a coach, Trestman works during the offseason to prepare college quarterbacks for the NFL draft. Trestman worked with Jay Cutler and Bears backup Jason Campbell before their respective drafts."
Missed that. Thank you.
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http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/52391/marc-trestman-hire-outsmarting-the-rest
Boom or Bust. Maybe a bit exaggerated, but certainly not out of the realm of possibility. I also wonder how much Emery's job is tied to the success of the hire.
Aaron Kromer (former Saints offensive line coach/offensive coordinator/interim-interim HC) now Bears Oline coach and O coordinator
http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/8848801/chicago-bears-tap-marc-trestman-former-cfl-coach-year-montreal-alouettes
Kromer is a very good hire as well. He should greatly improve this line, provided the Bears sign/draft some talent. Color me excited.
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I'm sure the meatballs won't be excited about it, especially since he is more Lovie than Ditka in demeanor, but I think it is a bold hire. I also think that ESPN article was a little unfair on bashing the CFL. It is no doubt a different league with lessor players, but I think judgement has to be reserved on how this is going to impact his offense. I mean, I don't think he will be breaking out a 1980s offense, and I'm sure Emery knows this.
Hiring an offensive coach IMO was very smart. They need to use Cutler to his abilities and give him an offensive gameplan that is serviceable.
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I'm sure the meatballs won't be excited about it, especially since he is more Lovie than Ditka in demeanor, but I think it is a bold hire. I also think that ESPN article was a little unfair on bashing the CFL. It is no doubt a different league with lessor players, but I think judgement has to be reserved on how this is going to impact his offense. I mean, I don't think he will be breaking out a 1980s offense, and I'm sure Emery knows this.
Hiring an offensive coach IMO was very smart. They need to use Cutler to his abilities and give him an offensive gameplan that is serviceable.
The meatballs always want da fire and da passion.
My biggest concern is on the defensive side. If Marinelli stays (indications are that he is), will the locker room be divided, and how will guys react to the old regime/new regime.
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Looks like they hired DeCamillis away from the Cowboys too. That is a fine replacement for Toub.
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Looks like they hired DeCamillis away from the Cowboys too. That is a fine replacement for Toub.
I heard that as well, great hire. What's interesting is to get DeCamillis, they had to give him the assistant head coach title. Marinelli is (or was rather) assistant head coach. Trying to get more info on Marinelli's status. Could be on the out.
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Looks like Oregon's Kelly is the new Eagles coach. Must have come up with the big bucks.
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Chip Kelly new Eagles HC. Wow.
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I heard that as well, great hire. What's interesting is to get DeCamillis, they had to give him the assistant head coach title. Marinelli is (or was rather) assistant head coach. Trying to get more info on Marinelli's status. Could be on the out.
That title doesn't mean much. NFL teams can block assistants from interviewing for lateral positions. If the Bears "promote" DeCamillis to Assistant Head Coach even though he's basically just the ST Coach, Dallas can't do anything to block the move.
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That title doesn't mean much. NFL teams can block assistants from interviewing for lateral positions. If the Bears "promote" DeCamillis to Assistant Head Coach even though he's basically just the ST Coach, Dallas can't do anything to block the move.
Exactly, that's what I was getting at. The only way the Bears could hire him was to give him that title.
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Trestman, DeCammilis, Kromer. A hell of a (delayed) start to the Emery era. Tack on improvement of last year's draft picks, plus a few solid picks this year and I really like the direction everything is going. Granted, have to get younger on defense, but I'd say the Bears could be 3-4 years from a solid super bowl contender.
My only concern is getting the offense in gear fast enough. This is the 4th? 5th? offense/coordinator for Jay Cutler. Could have some growing pains.
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The meatballs always want da fire and da passion.
My biggest concern is on the defensive side. If Marinelli stays (indications are that he is), will the locker room be divided, and how will guys react to the old regime/new regime.
Certainly a concern. Without a doubt, Lovie was a players coach. Say what you will about the Lovie era, I can't recall a time when I felt the players quit on him.
The fact Trestman has similar demeanor to Lovie is a plus. Bringing in some-type of hardass coach, like a Greg Schiano, could have been extremely problematic.
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Expect a lot of 12 men on the field penalties.
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Expect a lot of 12 men on the field penalties.
And 3rd down punts? And illegal shift penalties?
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Expect a lot of 12 men on the field penalties.
Well played, nicely done.
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Sun Times reports that Marinelli is staying.
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So they're gonna run the same ole cover-2? As a Packer fan, I applaud that.
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So they're gonna run the same ole cover-2? As a Packer fan, I applaud that.
In the past few seasons, the Bears have moved away from the Tampa-2 (all zone) and been doing a higher and higher percentage of man with 2 deep safeties or blitzes, depending upon the game situation.
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Trestman, DeCammilis, Kromer. A hell of a (delayed) start to the Emery era. Tack on improvement of last year's draft picks, plus a few solid picks this year and I really like the direction everything is going. Granted, have to get younger on defense, but I'd say the Bears could be 3-4 years from a solid super bowl contender.
My only concern is getting the offense in gear fast enough. This is the 4th? 5th? offense/coordinator for Jay Cutler. Could have some growing pains.
Lol. Leave it to a Bears fan to think that a coaching change is going to lead to a catastrophic change in the franchise in 3-4 years. Could it? Sure. But maybe they should focus on finishing out a season and making the Playoffs first.
Not to mention, unless the Bears find a new quarterback, they will not be in the Super Bowl anytime soon. Cutler isn't the worst quarterback in the NFL, but he is not a quarterback who is going to lead a team to a Super Bowl either.
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Lol. Leave it to a Bears fan to think that a coaching change is going to lead to a catastrophic change in the franchise in 3-4 years. Could it? Sure. But maybe they should focus on finishing out a season and making the Playoffs first.
Not to mention, unless the Bears find a new quarterback, they will not be in the Super Bowl anytime soon. Cutler isn't the worst quarterback in the NFL, but he is not a quarterback who is going to lead a team to a Super Bowl either.
Not to rehash an old argument but...he came pretty damn close to going to a Super Bowl a couple years ago.
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Not to rehash an old argument but...he came pretty damn close to going to a Super Bowl a couple years ago.
Until he whined his way out of a game and watched his backup play a better 2nd half than he played in the first half, and they still lost. Even though the Bears made that game very ugly and kept it close, the Bears did not have a chance to beat the Packers. Sure, he can make the Playoffs and win a game here or there, but he is not consistent enough to win at least 2 games in a row against the best teams in football. They won 1 game in that Playoffs.
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Until he whined his way out of a game and watched his backup play a better 2nd half than he played in the first half, and they still lost. Even though the Bears made that game very ugly and kept it close, the Bears did not have a chance to beat the Packers. Sure, he can make the Playoffs and win a game here or there, but he is not consistent enough to win at least 2 games in a row against the best teams in football. They won 1 game in that Playoffs.
This post just shows how ignorant and "football stupid" you are.
Cheers.
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Until he whined his way out of a game and watched his backup play a better 2nd half than he played in the first half, and they still lost.
Just speaking to the injury... So, Cutler takes himself out of the game to prevent further injury and he's the bad guy. RG3 stays in the game and gets injured further. I can't blame either of them for their decisions, but I think Cutler's was infinitely wiser.
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This post just shows how ignorant and "football stupid" you are.
Cheers.
Lol. Yeah man. You're right, the Bears were right there throughout the entire game.
Jay Cutler played the entire first half and quit on his team...I mean, was injured...for the entire second half. First half yards? A dominating 100. They had 6 possessions in the first half. They went like this: Punt, punt, punt, punt, intercepted pass. Impressive! Points in the 1st half? 0. Jay was a solid 6/14 passing for 80 yards with 0 touchdowns, an interception, and a fumble. 2 sacks. Outstanding 31.8 quarterback rating. 14-0 Pack at halftime.
The Packers had more rushing yards, more passing yards, more first downs, 10:00 more of possession, 1/2 of the penalty yards, less turnovers.
Like I said, the Bears did a good job of making the game ugly. They always do against the Packers. But if you are trying to deny that the game wasn't as close as the score suggested the game was then I guess I'll just go ahead and feel bad for you that you think you are this awesome "football genius."
I will say it again, the Bears never had a chance to beat the Packers in that game. Sure, they were "a win away" from going to the Super Bowl, but they were never going to the Super Bowl in 2010, just like they will never go to a Super Bowl with Jay Cutler as their quarterback.
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Cutler tore his MCL in that game, I mean seriously, come on. "Whined his way out?". Sorry, but that is really weak. Bears deserved to lose, game was years ago, who cares now. Neither team is playing this weekend.
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Cutler was clearly injured. He didn't "quit on his team."
And the Bears made it to the 29 yard line in an attempt to tie the game in the 4th quarter. They most certainly had a chance. So state otherwise is dumb.
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Lol. Leave it to a Bears fan to think that a coaching change is going to lead to a catastrophic change in the franchise in 3-4 years. Could it? Sure. But maybe they should focus on finishing out a season and making the Playoffs first.
Just so I'm clear, you don't believe a new coach can take a fringe playoff team to a Super Bowl appearance in 3-4 years?
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Cutler tore his MCL in that game, I mean seriously, come on. "Whined his way out?". Sorry, but that is really weak. Bears deserved to lose, game was years ago, who cares now. Neither team is playing this weekend.
+1
This Packer fan has said this here in the past. I do not like Cutler's demeanor, wouldn't want him as the GB QB, but I do believe he is a very tough hombre, with an amazing arm. He needs someone to teach him (or allow him) to manage the offense. My fear is that this new guy will do that. After he fixes the Bears O-line.
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Bears' press conference on right now. Emery explaining hiring process and why Trestman. Interestingly, Emery also stated his draft strategy is to take the best available player, not the best available player for the system... which explains Shea McClellin.
http://www.chicagobears.com/live.html
Trestman has a hilariously bad comb-over. No wonder he's in a hat on the sidelines.
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+1
This Packer fan has said this here in the past. I do not like Cutler's demeanor, wouldn't want him as the GB QB, but I do believe he is a very tough hombre, with an amazing arm. He needs someone to teach him (or allow him) to manage the offense. My fear is that this new guy will do that. After he fixes the Bears O-line.
I'm not too worried since Jay is already 29, and he is due a contract after next year. I know he likes Chicago, but he is also starting to get old... and he has taken a lot of abuse since he first started in the league.
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After he fixes the Bears O-line.
It may not translate, but in his first year as CFL head coach, Trestman took his team from 60+sacks/season to 20+ while increasing pass attempts. May have been players, other variables, but it at least points toward something positive such as identifying and addressing the problem (a problem this bears franchise has ignored for the better part of a decade).
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Sun Times reports that Marinelli is staying.
Sun Times was wrong. Marinelli is leaving.
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Sun Times was wrong. Marinelli is leaving.
Kinda disappointed Marinelli decided to leave. I'm not surprised, as I think once Lovie was canned, that was enough for Rod too. If they aren't going to blow up the D side of the ball, I'm guessing they'll promote Koch.
However, I am not at all upset to see Darryl Drake or Bob Babich fired. I hated both of them. Both were clearly Lovie's buddies and didn't deserve the jobs they had.
Surprised that Jeremy Bates got fired. I thought Cutler would have quit had his friend left.
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If you are bringing in an offensive coach, undoubtedly the offensive staff is going to leave. The real question is do they stick with the cover-2 defense, or switch it up entirely. If they stick with cover-2, they might bring in a guy like Raheem Morris.
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Surprised that Jeremy Bates got fired. I thought Cutler would have quit had his friend left.
Why? Jay's going to make $10 million next season and is going into a contract year. There's no way in hell that he quits football, because the Bears let go of his QB coach. The media always over-blows how important these player-coach relationships are, especially when it comes to the QB position.
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Matt Cavanaugh? Awesome. Nothing like bringing back the brilliant mind responsible for the development of Mark Sanchez... That's the first really disappointing thing I've heard re: the regime change. Not to mention his stint as Bears OC.
I actually kinda like the Mel Tucker hire. He's always had very good (top 10) defenses. Does anyone know if he runs a cover 2 scheme?
Trestman also added 2 guys he worked with in Montreal - Andy Bischoff (TE coach) and Michael Sinclair (asst. DL coach).
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I think mel tucker is a great pick up. I have been a jaguar season ticket holder for a couple years and felt like he never got enough credit for a solid D.
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I wish the Packers would have taken a looked at Mel Tucker.
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Looks like they hired DeCamillis away from the Cowboys too. That is a fine replacement for Toub.
Most Cowboys fans are happy to see him leave.
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See the Harbaugh/Schwartz handshake. Not many NFL coaches would a) get that fired up over a midseason win that he bumps/disrespects the opposing coach during a postgame handshake and b) respond how Schwartz did to it. They're both pricks.
Also, what does McCarthy and Crean being close have to do with anything? And are they even close, or does Crean just think/pretend they're close? Even if they are, you don't have any friends with different personalities than yours? That must be boring.
Yup, and I'd still love to have him as a football coach guiding my team. He get his teams to play. What he did at Stanford was nothing short of amazing. What he's done at SF has been fantastic.
Many coaches are pricks...Kevin O'Neill, Tom Crean, many fans would say Buzz Williams (fans that aren't our fans but look at him from afar...just like you are doing with Harbaugh).
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Has Dom Capers been fired yet?
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Matt Cavanaugh? Awesome. Nothing like bringing back the brilliant mind responsible for the development of Mark Sanchez... That's the first really disappointing thing I've heard re: the regime change. Not to mention his stint as Bears OC.
I actually kinda like the Mel Tucker hire. He's always had very good (top 10) defenses. Does anyone know if he runs a cover 2 scheme?
My understanding is that Tucker is not a "scheme guy." He can run whatever the personnel dictate. So he has run a 3-4, and a 4-3.
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I don't think I can take 2 more weeks of Ray Lewis.
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The Harbaughs are an "acquired" taste, but I'd kill to have either one of them coach my team. A MU memory with Jim and Jack a few years ago in the OC prior to our NCAA game....Jim was still at Stanford.
https://www.youtube.com/v/vYJTbOwJe3k
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I don't think I can take 2 more weeks of Ray Lewis.
What was more ridiculous: the faux crying during the national anthem or his antics after the game?
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What was more ridiculous: the faux crying during the national anthem or his antics after the game?
Post game antics for sure.
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Two more weeks of Ray Lewis is going to be extremely difficult. I went from no feelings towrds him to please stop the crap in last three weeks.
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I actually love Ray Lewis and don't think its an act with him. Has the NFL and the networks completely exploited it for the last couple of weeks? Absolutely.
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A Dude involved with trying to cover up a murder for his homies and lying to cops is someone I'm definitely down with. Go ray go.
Still haven't found the suit ray was wearing that night. The lost suit.
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A Dude involved with trying to cover up a murder for his homies and lying to cops is someone I'm definitely down with. Go ray go.
Still haven't found the suit ray was wearing that night. The lost suit.
Don't forget, this thug then turned states' evidence and ratted on his friends. Not worthy of anyone's adoration.
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Don't forget, this thug then turned states' evidence and ratted on his friends. Not worthy of anyone's adoration.
Ever since the incident 12 years ago, Lewis has been nothing but a model citizen and a positive role model. Is it really that staggering to believe that he might have realized that he dodged life changing legal troubles as a result of the incident and turned his life around?
I'm not saying he is innocent of wrong doing, but he's not a convicted murderer. People need to drop the hate. I get annoyed with the deification of him by networks, but the reflexive "yea but he's a murderer" comments and thug cracks get just as old. People obviously can't change.
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Sorry if this was posted earlier, but I love this Ray Lewis joke:
Q: How do you get Ray Lewis to stop crying?
A: Turn the cameras away.
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Ever since the incident 12 years ago, Lewis has been nothing but a model citizen and a positive role model. Is it really that staggering to believe that he might have realized that he dodged life changing legal troubles as a result of the incident and turned his life around?
I'm not saying he is innocent of wrong doing, but he's not a convicted murderer. People need to drop the hate. I get annoyed with the deification of him by networks, but the reflexive "yea but he's a murderer" comments and thug cracks get just as old. People obviously can't change.
Yeah, he's changed. 6 kids, 4 different mothers, no thank you.
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Ever since the incident 12 years ago, Lewis has been nothing but a model citizen and a positive role model. Is it really that staggering to believe that he might have realized that he dodged life changing legal troubles as a result of the incident and turned his life around?
I'm not saying he is innocent of wrong doing, but he's not a convicted murderer. People need to drop the hate. I get annoyed with the deification of him by networks, but the reflexive "yea but he's a murderer" comments and thug cracks get just as old. People obviously can't change.
People can change who they are, but they can't change what they've done.
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That is Ray in the center of the the media, just the way he likes it.
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Well, this is somewhat interesting. Jim Harbaugh was Ray Lewis' first sack victim.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/nfl-rapidreports/21598362/ray-lewis-to-be-re-acquainted-with-first-sack-victim-at-super-bowl
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Don't forget, this thug then turned states' evidence and ratted on his friends. Not worthy of anyone's adoration.
See, this I don't get.
Shouldn't he be applauded for this type of behavior? You know, making a good choice, in the aiding of putting people behind bars who did something heinous as killing another person?
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See, this I don't get.
Shouldn't he be applauded for this type of behavior? You know, making a good choice, in the aiding of putting people behind bars who did something heinous as killing another person?
+1 Lots of good "Christians" showing their true colors here.
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See, this I don't get.
Shouldn't he be applauded for this type of behavior? You know, making a good choice, in the aiding of putting people behind bars who did something heinous as killing another person?
maybe if the people he ratted on were exclusively guilty and actually went to jail, I might agree. The court of public opinion holds that Ray was guilty and skated. Yeah, where is that white coat of his? No. No applause.
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+1 Lots of good "Christians" showing their true colors here.
You can tell the Christians from the non-Christians by their posts here and then further delineate the good Christians from the non-good Christians as well? You are truly a beauty.
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You can tell the Christians from the non-Christians by their posts here and then further delineate the good Christians from the non-good Christians as well? You are truly a beauty.
Somehow I knew the Christian in you would get bent out of shape.
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Somehow I knew the Christian in you would get bent out of shape.
I hope you get to tell that to me in person some day.
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How about some orange peanuts to calm everyone down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zce-QT7MGSE
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maybe if the people he ratted on were exclusively guilty and actually went to jail, I might agree. The court of public opinion holds that Ray was guilty and skated. Yeah, where is that white coat of his? No. No applause.
Oh you were there? Excellent, glad to get your first person report.
And the court of public opinion? Seriously? That same court also was ready to hang the Duke lacrosse players.
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Oh you were there? Excellent, glad to get your first person report.
And the court of public opinion? Seriously? That same court also was ready to hang the Duke lacrosse players.
If you were any more naive, wait, I've got this bridge.....
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not only 6 kids with 4 baby mamas, but he also got into physical altercations with 2 of them where the police had to be called in. Enough with the Ray show - tough as nails linebacker, but deep down still a thug regardless.
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+1 Lots of good "Christians" showing their true colors here.
What about non-Christians: Jews, Muslims, atheists, etc.? Are they showing their true colors, too? Ugh.
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What about non-Christians: Jews, Muslims, atheists, etc.? Are they showing their true colors, too? Ugh.
One of the main teachings of Jesus Christ is forgiveness.
I hope you get to tell that to me in person some day.
Because you'd hit me? Extremely Christian of you.
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One of the main teachings of Jesus Christ is forgiveness.
Because you'd hit me? Extremely Christian of you.
No, because I'd turn the other cheek.
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No, because I'd turn the other cheek.
Then why not do the same for Ray?
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Then why not do the same for Ray?
Because silly insults are easily overlooked where murderous behavior, betrayal of cohorts, and assault of those women with whom one has had children are harder to dismiss.
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Forgiveness cannot exist without atonement. Unless you consider ratting out your accomplices atoning.
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One of the main teachings of Jesus Christ is forgiveness.
Always liked Jesus. One of our boys who made it big.
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Forgiveness cannot exist without atonement. Unless you consider ratting out your accomplices atoning.
I forgot the part of the bible that says: Stop snitchin'
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I forgot the part of the bible that says: Stop snitchin'
Carmelo made a video about it, does that count?
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I forgot the part of the bible that says: Stop snitchin'
It's right after the part that says: "Thou shalt not place thy bobblehead of Fr. Wild inneth thy trash receptacle."
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It's right after the part that says: "Thou shalt not place thy bobblehead of Fr. Wild inneth thy trash receptacle."
Glad I followed that one... Good thing there is nothing mentioned about the Crean bobblehead. I call it a bobble head because that is what the box said... even though it really looked like a to scale statue of him.
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Glad I followed that one... Good thing there is nothing mentioned about the Crean bobblehead. I call it a bobble head because that is what the box said... even though it really looked like a to scale statue of him.
No, no, that one is covered... it's the part about worshiping false idols. IIRC, somewhere in the Gospel of Matthew it states that burning a Crean statue/bobble gains you plenary indulgence.
Of course, I may be misinterpreting the Lord's word. I've been known to do that.
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http://www.suntimes.com/sports/17721032-419/new-cardinals-coach-bruce-arians-thinks-highly-of-bears-jay-cutler.html
I can see no motivation for Arians to come out and say this about Jay as just "coach speak" or anything else other than to compliment the guy. Guess he's not the "coach-killer" purported.
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For the Packers fans- How do you honor Driver's career?
I'd love to see him go into the Ring of Honor, even though he won't get to Canton.
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For the Packers fans- How do you honor Driver's career?
I'd love to see him go into the Ring of Honor, even though he won't get to Canton.
Well, then he doesn't get on the ring of honor. That's been a pretty hard and fast rule.
Packers' HOF and that's it. Very good receiver who had the fortune to play for two MVP quarterbacks in a pass happy league. I don't think he was a huge impact as a receiver. 3 Pro Bowls and top ten in receptions and yards in only two seasons.
Great guy. Dependable. Solid. Not worthy of the ring of honor.
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Well, then he doesn't get on the ring of honor. That's been a pretty hard and fast rule.
They put Ron Wolf up there, so you never know. With the franchise records Driver holds, he's got an interesting case if there was any flexibility.
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They put Ron Wolf up there, so you never know. With the franchise records Driver holds, he's got an interesting case if there was any flexibility.
You are correct about Wolf. But I simply don't think Driver is worthy.
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You are correct about Wolf. But I simply don't think Driver is worthy.
If the Packers would ever make an exception (for a player), they'll do it for double-D.
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If the Packers would ever make an exception (for a player), they'll do it for double-D.
Driver was a very good player and a fan favorite but he's the type of guy who tends to be overrated by his own fan base because he played with the same team for a long time and was a likable guy off the field. Was he an all-time great? No. Was he a very good player for a long time? Yes. He is to Packer fans what (inmate) Mark Grace is to a lot of Cub fans.
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If the Packers would ever make an exception (for a player), they'll do it for double-D.
This is why you have waiting periods for these type of things. I mean, I would put LeRoy Butler up there LONG before Donald Driver. Butler was much better at his position than Driver was - at no point was Driver considered the best receiver in the NFL...but Butler was the best safety in the NFL in the mid-90s. Some even say he revolutionized the way the position was played and paved the way for the likes of Ed Reed and Troy Palumalu
He has been as active in the community, and is pretty much considered a good all around guy too.
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This is why you have waiting periods for these type of things. I mean, I would put LeRoy Butler up there LONG before Donald Driver. Butler was much better at his position than Driver was - at no point was Driver considered the best receiver in the NFL...but Butler was the best safety in the NFL in the mid-90s. Some even say he revolutionized the way the position was played and paved the way for the likes of Ed Reed and Troy Palumalu
He has been as active in the community, and is pretty much considered a good all around guy too.
What's with Leroy and the Packers? He seems to want an official postion with the Pack, but they seem to hold back. Any insight?
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but Butler was the best safety in the NFL in the mid-90s. Some even say he revolutionized the way the position was played and paved the way for the likes of Ed Reed and Troy Palumalu
Steve Atwater would like a word with you.
Not to say Butler doesn't belong in the conversation or the Ring of Fame, but I think Atwater had more influence on the modern position.
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Steve Atwater would like a word with you.
Not to say Butler doesn't belong in the conversation or the Ring of Fame, but I think Atwater had more influence on the modern position.
Atwater is a good player, no doubt, but Butler compares quite favorable to him in terms of flexibility. Of course, Lott came before both of these guys and was much better than both.
Butler - '90-'01
38 interceptions
20.5 sacks
13 forced fumbles
10 fumble recoveries
721 tackles
4 time 1st team all-pro
4 time pro-bowler
Atwater - '89-'99
24 interceptions
5 sacks
6 forced fumbles
8 fumble recoveries
1074 tackles
2 time 1st team all-pro
8 time pro-bowler
I would put Butler in the ring of honor a long time before DD.
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This is why you have waiting periods for these type of things. I mean, I would put LeRoy Butler up there LONG before Donald Driver. Butler was much better at his position than Driver was - at no point was Driver considered the best receiver in the NFL...but Butler was the best safety in the NFL in the mid-90s. Some even say he revolutionized the way the position was played and paved the way for the likes of Ed Reed and Troy Palumalu
He has been as active in the community, and is pretty much considered a good all around guy too.
Perhaps you're right... I guess I'm somewhat distracted by the fact that he could potentially be seen an ambassador for the Packers outside of football, with the whole dancing thing and all, and that might add "prestige" to the organization by having his name up there. Not the greatest example, but is Gerald Ford in the Michigan Sports Hall of Fame because he was a superstar at UM or because he was POTUS. Is Golda's school named for her because of her MPS teaching career or because of her contributions/accomplishments 12,000 miles away?
Granted, DWTS is not quite the same level as being the head of state (maybe in some countries), but as far as popularity goes outside of Wisconsin, DD's probably the most recognizable Packer to never win an MVP in today's mainstream. But still, I'm getting on board with the idea that DD isn't going in the ring... unless he turns evil and becomes Supreme Emperor someday.
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Lott was nowhere near as flexible as Butler in terms of what he was asked to do on the field. He could hit (1113 tackles) and defend passes (63 INTs) better than Butler, and you could argue that this is primarily what a safety is asked to do, but the Packers used Butler in very unique ways as a pass rusher. Neither Atwater nor Lott played that type of game.
Atwater and Butler were first team all decade in the 90s FWIW.
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Perhaps you're right... I guess I'm somewhat distracted by the fact that he could potentially be seen an ambassador for the Packers outside of football, with the whole dancing thing and all, and that might add "prestige" to the organization by having his name up there. Not the greatest example, but is Gerald Ford in the Michigan Sports Hall of Fame because he was a superstar at UM or because he was POTUS. Is Golda's school named for her because of her MPS teaching career or because of her contributions/accomplishments 12,000 miles away?
Granted, DWTS is not quite the same level as being the head of state (maybe in some countries), but as far as popularity goes outside of Wisconsin, DD's probably the most recognizable Packer to never win an MVP in today's mainstream. But still, I'm getting on board with the idea that DD isn't going in the ring... unless he turns evil and becomes Supreme Emperor someday.
I hear where you are coming from, but Gerald Ford was a Collegiate All-Star. He didn't go pro because he went to Yale Law School.
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Lott was nowhere near as flexible as Butler in terms of what he was asked to do on the field. He could hit (1113 tackles) and defend passes (63 INTs) better than Butler, and you could argue that this is primarily what a safety is asked to do, but the Packers used Butler in very unique ways as a pass rusher. Neither Atwater nor Lott played that type of game.
Atwater and Butler were first team all decade in the 90s FWIW.
I would say being able to play both the pass and the run equally adept would make a safety flexible. If you want to say that being flexible as a safety requires that you rush the passer as well, you won't find many (if any) guys in Butler's league in terms of that regard; however not sure why you would use Ed Reed as an example of a current player that Butler was a forerunner to though as they are not at all similar in that regard.
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I would say being able to play both the pass and the run equally adept would make a safety flexible. If you want to say that being flexible as a safety requires that you rush the passer as well, you won't find many (if any) guys in Butler's league in terms of that regard; however not sure why you would use Ed Reed as an example of a current player that Butler was a forerunner to though as they are not at all similar in that regard.
Agreed. It was a poor example on my part.
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Shocking that the 49ers and Ravens would get into a scrum. Teams full of thugs coached by 2 big douches.
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Wonder if Crean didn't stick his finger in an electrical socket?
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Wonder if Crean didn't stick his finger in an electrical socket?
his portable tanning bed overloaded the circuit.
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Anyone else wanna bitch slap Jim Harbaugh?
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Anyone else wanna bitch slap Jim Harbaugh?
Every time I watch the 9ers I do.
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Should make for a classic post game handshake.
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Great game to watch (especially if you had no real rooting interest) but it's a shame that the two things people will remember most will be the lights going out and the horrific non-call on the 49ers' final play.
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Great game to watch (especially if you had no real rooting interest) but it's a shame that the two things people will remember most will be the lights going out and the horrific non-call on the 49ers' final play.
And Cary Williams 2 handed shove of an official with no penalty.
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And Cary Williams 2 handed shove of an official with no penalty.
The refs let A LOT go in terms of the scraps that took place during the game. Very early on #97 (Jones?) for Baltimore punched Staley in the facemask as the ref was separating them and nothing was called. I really have no problem with the refs letting stuff like that go in the Super Bowl especially because they tend to only see the guy who hits back, not the guy who provoked him (admittedly I have no idea what Staley did, if anything). I just have no idea how you can watch a DB grab a WR with two hands and not let go but throw no flag.
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http://www.freep.com/usatoday/article/1897131&usatref=sportsmod?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CSports%7Cp
Shocking...
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http://www.freep.com/usatoday/article/1897131&usatref=sportsmod?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CSports%7Cp
Shocking...
Probably in line for biggest "who gives a f" of the year.
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I think I like him even more now.
Why on earth would any football fan care about the manner in which Jay proposed?
I guess the bagging on Cutler is still going to be stylish for the media this offseason.
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While he loses points on romance, he picks up points on efficiency.
Hope he has a pre-nup.
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What else do writers in Detroit have to write about?
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What else do writers in Detroit have to write about?
Well for starters, the Detroit Tigers.
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Well for starters, the Detroit Tigers.
I hear their hockey team is decent too.
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I hear their hockey team is decent too.
Hell yes they are.
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http://m.espn.go.com/general/video?vid=8628297
Wow. Could never stand the guy and always thought he was a thug. Could not have been more wrong. Really awesome story.
E60, along with 30 For 30, is the show I most look forward to seeing on TV. They have some really cool stories that otherwise don't get shown.
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Pending physical, the Vikings have traded Percy Harvin to Seattle for first- and seventh-round picks, maybe more.
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9040142/minnesota-vikings-trade-percy-harvin-seattle-seahawks-sources
wow. i thought percy not going to be traded?
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Pending physical, the Vikings have traded Percy Harvin to Seattle for first- and seventh-round picks, maybe more.
I heard a 1st and 7th and a 4th next year. How in the hell is that guy worth a 1st round pick? Stupid trade by the seahawks
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I heard a 1st and 7th and a 4th next year. How in the hell is that guy worth a 1st round pick? Stupid trade by the seahawks
Harvin is a really talented guy. He was having a terrific season last year, before getting injury. When healthy, I definitely think he is worth a first-rounder.
Anyways, if the Vikes can sign Mike Wallace, this could be a really nice trade for them.
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Love this trade for Vikings, outstanding move.
I think they'll sign Jennings now, and will have draft ammo. Really good move on their part.
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Love this trade for Vikings, outstanding move.
I think they'll sign Jennings now, and will have draft ammo. Really good move on their part.
Jennings claims that QB will be a big part in his decision-making. That would rule out Minnesota...unless he's (gasp!) just going to take the money.
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Love this trade for Vikings, outstanding move.
I think they'll sign Jennings now, and will have draft ammo. Really good move on their part.
Seems like a good move for both. I have to believe Seattle may look to trade Flynn and get a pick or two back as well.
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Harvin is REALLY good.
You just can't think of him as a "traditional" receiver.
He can play several positions and can score in the return game.
He's never going to have Megatron numbers, but he has a lot of value because he provides coordinators a lot of flexibility.
With this said, the guy hasn't been a model citizen, and was allegedly causing "issues" all season on the Vikes.
IF the Vikes can sign a good FA receiver, then this was a great move. They get to replace Harvin in free agency and get to upgrade another position with the draft.
IF they just expect to replace Percy in the draft, then it's a questionable deal... but given Harvin's issues, it might have been the best thing they could do.
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Harvin is REALLY good.
You just can't think of him as a "traditional" receiver.
He can play several positions and can score in the return game.
He's never going to have Megatron numbers, but he has a lot of value because he provides coordinators a lot of flexibility.
With this said, the guy hasn't been a model citizen, and was allegedly causing "issues" all season on the Vikes.
IF the Vikes can sign a good FA receiver, then this was a great move. They get to replace Harvin in free agency and get to upgrade another position with the draft.
IF they just expect to replace Percy in the draft, then it's a questionable deal... but given Harvin's issues, it might have been the best thing they could do.
Vikes did themselves a favor. They sold really high on a guy who can't make it through an entire NFL season.
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Vikes did themselves a favor. They sold really high on a guy who can't make it through an entire NFL season.
Better weed on the West Coast, he will probably be fine this season.
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Vikes did themselves a favor. They sold really high on a guy who can't make it through an entire NFL season.
Yes, a 1st rounder + additional is pretty high price, so it's a good move for the Vikes.
But, if he's happy and healthy, he's REALLY good.
I'd actually be more worried about giving him a big contract. I think he is worth a first rd. pick, but 2 or 3 years from now, he might not be worth the money they give him.
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Vikes did themselves a favor. They sold really high on a guy who can't make it through an entire NFL season.
Harvin missed three whole games his first three years. Last year was the only one in which he missed significant time.
Good trade for both teams. The Vikings got excellent return on a guy they didn't want to pay, and the Seahawks got someone who could put them over the top, and is almost certainly a much better/immediately impactful player than they would have obtained at #25 in the draft. Wilson+Beast Mode+Harvin = potentially scary offense.
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Harvin played 9 games and led the team in receptions and receiving yards this past year. TE Rudolph was 2nd. They better find a WR.
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Harvin played 9 games and led the team in receptions and receiving yards this past year. TE Rudolph was 2nd. They better find a WR.
Bingo. That's pathetic. Didn't they go an entire game against the Packers this year without having a wide receiver catch a pass? Or was that the Bears? I think it was a divisional opponent.
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Did SF get scared by the Harvin trade, so they went right out and got Boldin??
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Arms race in the NFC West.
49ers and Seahawks both looking better on paper than the Packers.
Still not expecting anything from Ted Thompson.
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How's the GB financial situation? Bears have relatively no money to spend.
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Harvin is a really talented guy. He was having a terrific season last year, before getting injury. When healthy, I definitely think he is worth a first-rounder.
Anyways, if the Vikes can sign Mike Wallace, this could be a really nice trade for them.
Looks like Wallace is signing with the Dolphins.
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If the Vikes sign Jennings they won't have any WR to speak of when/if Jennings gets hurt unless they draft well.
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Did SF get scared by the Harvin trade, so they went right out and got Boldin??
SF wanted a big, physical WR to team with Crabtree, Manningham and Davis. They took a flyer on Moss last season but didn't get great production. Boldin could end up being a steal but it may cost them Delanie Walker.
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How's the GB financial situation? Bears have relatively no money to spend.
Right now they have about $20M in cap spade. My guess is that they are going to use much of that to try to get extensions from Matthews, Raji, Jones and Rodgers. They do have room to take a flyer on a free agent if they think they can get value. But you know how Thompson thinks.
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Some quick hits before the madness starts at 3...
-If you haven't heard this yet, listen to it now, pure awesome.
http://deadspin.com/pranksters-record-two-nfl-gms-discussing-free-agency-ov-452366184
-Still really impressed what the Vikings did yesterday. They sold Harvin at the absolute perfect time. Once 3pm hits today, his trade value would have gone way down. If they get Jennings or tender Cruz, it will shape up as an outstanding deal for them.
-Can't see Bears or Packers doing too much in free agency, hearing same thing from people. Both teams are historically very good at managing the cap (Cliff Stein is really good at what he does). Neither team will look to tackle short term issues with long term nightmares.
-Some FA predictions. Wallace winds up in Cleveland, Jake Long in St. Louis, Jennings in Miami, Victor Cruz in Minny.
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Some quick hits before the madness starts at 3...
-If you haven't heard this yet, listen to it now, pure awesome.
http://deadspin.com/pranksters-record-two-nfl-gms-discussing-free-agency-ov-452366184
-Some FA predictions. Wallace winds up in Cleveland, Jake Long in St. Louis, Jennings in Miami, Victor Cruz in Minny.
I can't see how that phone prank is legal.
And I hope you are wrong about Cruz in Minny. I saw they resigned Simpson today.
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Vikes release Winfield. Have heard Bears will be in contact with him right at 3pm (Bears have huge interest in him, pending $).
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According to two sources, the straw that broke the Vikings' back with Harvin is when he bemoaned the fact that quarterback Christian Ponder, a 2011 first-round pick, was not good enough. That came even though Ponder consistently fed Harvin the ball.
Good stuff.
http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2013/03/percy_reportedly_wanted_out_of_minnesota_after_it_become_clear_ponder_was_not_good_enough.php
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Bears agree to terms with Martellus Bennet, will sign this evening.
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Bears agree to terms with Martellus Bennet, will sign this evening.
A year too late is better than not at all!
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Bears agree to terms with Martellus Bennet, will sign this evening.
A sign that there will be no TE in the early draft rounds, surely. Seems offensive line in the draft really will be a priority. Maybe LB as well.
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Bears agree to terms with Martellus Bennet, will sign this evening.
Nice signing for sure.
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I know they thought about him at the trade deadline, but SJax to the Pack? (close at least)
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I know they thought about him at the trade deadline, but SJax to the Pack? (close at least)
Rumors are now that Jax is throwing interest out there to drive up his price in Atlanta.
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Any signs out there the Pack are looking to utilize free agency to improve the team?
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none yet unless Canty coming in counts
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Any signs out there the Pack are looking to utilize free agency to improve the team?
Apparent 'leaders' for Stephen Jackson.
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Looks like the Bears signed LT Jermon Bushrod Saints 2 time Pro Bowler.
"Bushrod developed in New Orleans under new Bears offensive coordinator/line coach Aaron Kromer."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-bears-bushrod-20130312,0,1402812.story
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Bears agree to terms with Martellus Bennet, will sign this evening.
The Black Unicorn
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Looks like Wallace is signing with the Dolphins.
As a Dolphins fan, I like this move. Yeah its a lot of $$, but with a very good deep threat, possession receiver and slot receiver, Tannehill will have some nice weapons with which to develop. The beauty of the whole thing is that in two or three years, if Tannehill develops into a top 10 QB because of the weapons they gave him as he's maturing, they can sign him to a big deal then just cut bait on some of the money at WR and start over.
As a sidenote, while I like this plan, its also why its philosophically hard for me to get too excited about NFL free agency/trades. In the NFL, only guaranteed money matters, unlike baseball where teams have to live with all of their decisions.
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Bears agree to terms with Martellus Bennet, will sign this evening.
H.E.A.D. C.A.S.E.
Enjoy him, we certainly did, when he decided to show up and play
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GB signs Jackson.
30 yo power back, should have first focused money on immediate d upgrade imo. Like some aggression from TT in fa though.
http://www.profootballcentral.com/2013/03/12/team-informed-steven-jackson-will-sign-with-green-bay/ (http://www.profootballcentral.com/2013/03/12/team-informed-steven-jackson-will-sign-with-green-bay/)
needs to be further confirmed.
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GB signs Jackson.
30 yo power back, should have first focused money on immediate d upgrade imo. Like some aggression from TT in fa though.
http://www.profootballcentral.com/2013/03/12/team-informed-steven-jackson-will-sign-with-green-bay/ (http://www.profootballcentral.com/2013/03/12/team-informed-steven-jackson-will-sign-with-green-bay/)
needs to be further confirmed.
That's a nice signing. He still brings it.
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GB signs Jackson.
30 yo power back, should have first focused money on immediate d upgrade imo. Like some aggression from TT in fa though.
http://www.profootballcentral.com/2013/03/12/team-informed-steven-jackson-will-sign-with-green-bay/ (http://www.profootballcentral.com/2013/03/12/team-informed-steven-jackson-will-sign-with-green-bay/)
needs to be further confirmed.
The D upgrade will come through the draft like it always has. I love this signing as long as its only 3 years.
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H.E.A.D. C.A.S.E.
Enjoy him, we certainly did, when he decided to show up and play
Who's "we" in this situation? Marquette? Indiana? Kansas? You and Hoopaloop?
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Who's "we" in this situation? Marquette? Indiana? Kansas? You and Hoopaloop?
I think he is referring to LAA Angels. I could be wrong though.
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I believe CBB's football allegiance is the Cowboys.
"Hella wavy… "-joey gryffinfor.
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Why did the Vikings let Percy go to SF 49ers. Dumb a$$es. If Kapernick gets better, check the Super Bowl for SF.
Would love to see Woodson go to the G-MEN. His talent would stay in the family (Packers and Giants household).
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Why did the Vikings let Percy go to SF 49ers. Dumb a$$es. If Kapernick gets better, check the Super Bowl for SF.
Would love to see Woodson go to the G-MEN. His talent would stay in the family (Packers and Giants household).
They let Harvin go to SEATTLE. And it is because the Seahawks gave them a ton for him. Rumor is that Woodson is in deep talks with the 49ers.
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I'd be happy if the Packers could somehow wrangle Ryan Fitzpatrick for a couple million to back up Rodgers.
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GB signs Jackson.
30 yo power back, should have first focused money on immediate d upgrade imo. Like some aggression from TT in fa though.
http://www.profootballcentral.com/2013/03/12/team-informed-steven-jackson-will-sign-with-green-bay/ (http://www.profootballcentral.com/2013/03/12/team-informed-steven-jackson-will-sign-with-green-bay/)
needs to be further confirmed.
sure does. not a whisper of this deal anywhere else.
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sure does. not a whisper of this deal anywhere else.
The Packers are interested and met with his agent yesterday. It is between the Packers and Atlanta per the journal sentinel. Nothing else has been confirmed as of yet. Also a good chance that Jennings comes back. The market is soft and it appears to be between the queens and Packers right now for Jennings.
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The Packers are interested and met with his agent yesterday. It is between the Packers and Atlanta per the journal sentinel. Nothing else has been confirmed as of yet. Also a good chance that Jennings comes back. The market is soft and it appears to be between the queens and Packers right now for Jennings.
Hope the Pack doesn't reach too far on this one. Very good player, but 30 yr. old running backs are near the end of their utility.
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I also wouldn't reach too far on Jennings. If they can get Jones to sign an extension, I would rather spend the money elsewhere.
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Hope the Pack doesn't reach too far on this one. Very good player, but 30 yr. old running backs are near the end of their utility.
Agree, but he would fill a hole for a couple of years and he is stil a damn good back, over 1000 yards last year again for a crappy Rams team. I hope they do not over pay for Jennings either, I would rather see them spend the money on a safety or left tackle
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OK...according to some Vikings reporter, Jennings is asking for $10-11 M per year.
No way when Jones is making about $3.
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OK...according to some Vikings reporter, Jennings is asking for $10-11 M per year.
No way when Jones is making about $3.
He can ask what he wants, but there is no way he gets that unless somneone way over pays. MJS says probably 8 to 9 mil per year. Too much for the Packers to pay for him with more pressing needs elsewhere,in my opinion. If they do sign Jennings, it may mean the end for Finley in Green bay.
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Agree, but he would fill a hole for a couple of years and he is stil a damn good back, over 1000 yards last year again for a crappy Rams team. I hope they do not over pay for Jennings either, I would rather see them spend the money on a safety or left tackle
Could also use some linebackers.
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He can ask what he wants, but there is no way he gets that unless somneone way over pays. MJS says probably 8 to 9 mil per year. Too much for the Packers to pay for him with more pressing needs elsewhere,in my opinion. If they do sign Jennings, it may mean the end for Finley in Green bay.
Which wouldn't be too bad either. I'm for letting them both go. Finley is a dropper and Jennings is good, but somewhat injury prone and will be past his prime in 2 years. As Sultan said, resign Jones for a lot less.
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Which wouldn't be too bad either. I'm for letting them both go. Finley is a dropper and Jennings is good, but somewhat injury prone and will be past his prime in 2 years. As Sultan said, resign Jones for a lot less.
I think they need one or the other. Finley is a dropper, but he makes defenses account for him which opens it up for others.
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Packers should not sign jennings for that price. It is a position of strength for them, so there is no need to overpay.
The Vikes have to consider it because it's such a position of weakness for them. I don't think Jennings is "worth it", but value is all relative to how bad you need it.
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Packers should not sign jennings for that price. It is a position of strength for them, so there is no need to overpay.
The Vikes have to consider it because it's such a position of weakness for them. I don't think Jennings is "worth it", but value is all relative to how bad you need it.
Jennings is in a somewhat similar position to Wes Welker. He's a good player and a valuable member of his team but he's not a game-changer, his numbers are inflated, he's very replaceable and will end up being overpaid.
New Report: GB offering Jennings $10M/season
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Who's "we" in this situation? Marquette? Indiana? Kansas? You and Hoopaloop?
Dallas Cowboys...I'm originally from Texas and worked their training camps in Thousand Oaks, California for many years as a kid. We suck balls for the last 15 years. Damn I hate Jerry Jones. Grr
MB is a head case. Over\under on him playing for 5 teams in his career? I'll take the over.
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Jennings is in a somewhat similar position to Wes Welker. He's a good player and a valuable member of his team but he's not a game-changer, his numbers are inflated, he's very replaceable and will end up being overpaid.
New Report: GB offering Jennings $10M/season
Replacable? yes, game changer? sometimes. His numbers are not inflated, they are what they are. He was putting up good numbers while the team had Driver (closer to his prime), Jones, Nelson, Finley, Cobb, etc. That to me is impressive. Still 10 mil is too much, I think they will cut finley if they have to shell out that much for Jennings.
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Jennings is in a somewhat similar position to Wes Welker. He's a good player and a valuable member of his team but he's not a game-changer, his numbers are inflated, he's very replaceable and will end up being overpaid.
New Report: GB offering Jennings $10M/season
Source? Doubt it.
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Jennings is in a somewhat similar position to Wes Welker.
Agree to an extent. I get the feeling someone is going to pay a lot of money for Wes Welker and they are going to end up with an above average receiver.
My question on Jennings/GB is this... Don't really feel like Nelson is a #1 caliber guy, Cobb excels in a slot role, and Jones has promise but probably not ready for a #1 role. If they let him go, who is their #1? Are there anymore big time WRs left on the market? They probably need to re-sign him, but $10MM a year seems to be a very high price tag.
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Source? Doubt it.
"A source" told Jason Wilde.
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Replacable? yes, game changer? sometimes. His numbers are not inflated, they are what they are. He was putting up good numbers while the team had Driver (closer to his prime), Jones, Nelson, Finley, Cobb, etc. That to me is impressive. Still 10 mil is too much, I think they will cut finley if they have to shell out that much for Jennings.
Inflated may not have been the best choice of words. I just meant that he's played in a WR-friendly system with one of the best, if not THE best, QBs in the league throwing to him. Those things help a WR's stats.
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"A source" told Jason Wilde.
pretty ambiguous. could be 10 million for 3 years back end loaded, I guess. Plus they need to have money available for Rodgers and Matthews and possibly a running back. Will be extremely surprised if Jennings gets $10 mill per year from TT. Did you personally hear it from Wilde?
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Inflated may not have been the best choice of words. I just meant that he's played in a WR-friendly system with one of the best, if not THE best, QBs in the league throwing to him. Those things help a WR's stats.
True. I see that.
I would trust the report if it came from Wilde. He is pretty well respected and wouldn't spew some bs just to be first to report it. He also has had good sources in the past.
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I like the Bennett signing a lot. Clear upgrade over what they had (a corpse would have been an upgrade). Bennett needed to get out of Texas, that was never a good fit for him being in Dallas.
I was surprised how much movement the Bears made. Both Bennett and Bushrod have cap friendly numbers for 2013, so Stein found a way to make it happen (assuming they don't pay for it down the road). Gives the Bears much more flexibility in the draft now. Would love to see them get Ogletree (in spite of the baggage).
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Would love to see them get Ogletree (in spite of the baggage).
+1000
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I like the Bennett signing a lot. Clear upgrade over what they had (a corpse would have been an upgrade). Bennett needed to get out of Texas, that was never a good fit for him being in Dallas.
I was surprised how much movement the Bears made. Both Bennett and Bushrod have cap friendly numbers for 2013, so Stein found a way to make it happen (assuming they don't pay for it down the road). Gives the Bears much more flexibility in the draft now. Would love to see them get Ogletree (in spite of the baggage).
Bears just cut Davis. Oddly, they could have had Bennett last year for half of what they paid Davis.
Ogletree would be a great fit for the Bears.
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I like the Bennett signing a lot. Clear upgrade over what they had (a corpse would have been an upgrade). Bennett needed to get out of Texas, that was never a good fit for him being in Dallas.
I was surprised how much movement the Bears made. Both Bennett and Bushrod have cap friendly numbers for 2013, so Stein found a way to make it happen (assuming they don't pay for it down the road). Gives the Bears much more flexibility in the draft now. Would love to see them get Ogletree (in spite of the baggage).
Both solid moves. Cutler has to perform now. I know the line isn't made by one signing, but now they have weapons enough to move them out of that 26th and below offensive ranking spot without excuse.
Huge draft for Emery.
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Both solid moves. Cutler has to perform now. I know the line isn't made by one signing, but now they have weapons enough to move them out of that 26th and below offensive ranking spot without excuse.
Huge draft for Emery.
Agree 100%. This is Cutler's make or break year for both his future and that of the franchise.
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Agree to an extent. I get the feeling someone is going to pay a lot of money for Wes Welker and they are going to end up with an above average receiver.
My question on Jennings/GB is this... Don't really feel like Nelson is a #1 caliber guy, Cobb excels in a slot role, and Jones has promise but probably not ready for a #1 role. If they let him go, who is their #1? Are there anymore big time WRs left on the market? They probably need to re-sign him, but $10MM a year seems to be a very high price tag.
I'm not sure they really need a #1, and I'm not sure Jennings really ever was. They have 3 solid #1.5's right now. Honestly, I'd rather keep the 3 we have, and see what Boykin has than overpay Jennings.
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I'm not sure they really need a #1, and I'm not sure Jennings really ever was. They have 3 solid #1.5's right now. Honestly, I'd rather keep the 3 we have, and see what Boykin has than overpay Jennings.
Yeah, I agree with this. I am not sure the Packers have had a true #1 since the Sterling Sharpe days.
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Yeah, I agree with this. I am not sure the Packers have had a true #1 since the Sterling Sharpe days.
Javon Walker, wasn't he a pretty solid #1 until the knee injury?
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In 2004, Walker's best year, he had 89 catches for 1382. And Driver had 84 for 1208.
But in looking at the stats, in 2005 and 2006, Driver was pretty much a #1 guy. Of course those were Sherman's last year (4-12) and McCarthy's first (8-8).
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And beyond that, if Walker was a true #1 why did his numbers nose dive in Denver? I know he got hurt, but he never really was that #1 guy.
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And beyond that, if Walker was a true #1 why did his numbers nose dive in Denver? I know he got hurt, but he never really was that #1 guy.
My memory of his prowess was off. That's what I get for trying to remember things about the Packers. (it also surprised me to realize his best year was 2004.) I am getting old I guess.
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And beyond that, if Walker was a true #1 why did his numbers nose dive in Denver? I know he got hurt, but he never really was that #1 guy.
Well, to be fair, he was the #1 guy his first year in Denver. 69 rec for 1084 yards...and the next was Rod Smith who had 52 and 512. But that was a pretty disappointing Denver team that was a year removed from hosting the AFC Championship Game. (Loss to Steelers.)
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The D upgrade will come through the draft like it always has. I love this signing as long as its only 3 years.
Got to ask if that's really been working though. Can we wait for the young guys to get more seasoning. We should be in win now mode.
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Bush to Detroit... still need a lot more, but it's a good start.
Slightly OT...
Welker to Denver. Wow. Could be a great slot option for Manning.
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The Lions signing Bush and Jones means they can focus on OL, DB and possibly DE in the draft.
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Bush to Detroit... still need a lot more, but it's a good start.
Slightly OT...
Welker to Denver. Wow. Could be a great slot option for Manning.
Lions needed to replace Best, so grabbing Bush is a nice replacement. Even in a passing league, having Stafford throw the ball 45 times a game is not a recipe for success.
Agree on Welker. Excellent situation for him.
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Got to ask if that's really been working though. Can we wait for the young guys to get more seasoning. We should be in win now mode.
The problem is players getting injured. Our #1 pick was gone most of the year.
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The problem is players getting injured. Our #1 pick was gone most of the year.
Injuries are going to happen. TT has been using predominately draft only on d for awhile now and there are still some big soft spots. In theory by now TT should have his roster stocked to compensate for injuries.
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Agree on Welker. Excellent situation for him.
Bronocs fan here - great deal. They got him for 2 yrs at a rumored $14 mil. You figure he plays in DEN as long as Manning is there and they cut ties before the QB change.
Denver now has 3 WRs who went for 1000 yards last season.
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Injuries are going to happen. TT has been using predominately draft only on d for awhile now and there are still some big soft spots. In theory by now TT should have his roster stocked to compensate for injuries.
What's easier to get depth? Adding youth at reasonable prices or trading/signing vets at high prices? TT strategy is perfect if you want depth. Your argument makes more sense if you think they have depth but need more impact players.
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S jax to the falcons.
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Matt Cassel to the Vikes
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S jax to the falcons.
This is good. No good reason for the Packers to sign him. RB by far the easiest position to address in the draft. Just don't think it would have been money well spent. Much better directed toward others. Finley for starters.
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I don't see why Atlanta would release Turner and then sign Jackson. They are basically the same player.
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Matt Cassel to the Vikes
Consensus Lock for NFC North with this move!
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I don't see why Atlanta would release Turner and then sign Jackson. They are basically the same player.
Best guess, probably due to cash. I'm guessing that the Falcons saved money by cutting Turner and replacing him with Jackson. I agreed though, in terms of talent and mileage, this seems like a wash.
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Best guess, probably due to cash. I'm guessing that the Falcons saved money by cutting Turner and replacing him with Jackson. I agreed though, in terms of talent and mileage, this seems like a wash.
But I even doubt that. You don't sign a 3 year deal for peanuts.
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Greg Jennings to Vikings per ESPN
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Greg Jennings to Vikings per ESPN
29 year olds coming off of groin tears usually have great bounce back seasons... right?
I don't blame him for taking the money... any sensible athlete does.
Green Bay was fine without him all year, and will be fine next year.
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5 years, 47.5MM 18MM guaranteed? Good luck.
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29 year olds coming off of groin tears usually have great bounce back seasons... right?
I don't blame him for taking the money... any sensible athlete does.
Green Bay was fine without him all year, and will be fine next year.
I agree. I always liked Jennings I wish gb could have kept him. It will be interesting to see how he does without a h o f QB throwing to him and all kinds of other weapons to take the pressure off of him.
The queens basically traded an up and coming game changer for a declining receiver with recent injury issues.
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BeeJay's probably linin' up his SB ducats as we type.
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I agree. I always liked Jennings I wish gb could have kept him. It will be interesting to see how he does without a h o f QB throwing to him and all kinds of other weapons to take the pressure off of him.
The queens basically traded an up and coming game changer for a declining receiver with recent injury issues.
And a first round pick.
They overpayed for Jennings, but they didn't have a ton of options.
Their WR corps should be better than last year (hard not to be)
Jennings
Jarius Wright (should be decent as a slot guy)
(insert 1st rd pick)
Rudolph at TE
Jerome Simpson
I think it's the best they could do in 1 off season.
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I don't think the Packers should have dropped that kind of cash on Jennings, but I think he is still a pretty good receiver and the Vikings are going to get a couple good years out of him if he stays away from injury. Jennings is going to need someone on the other side of him though.
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Tom Crabtree to the Bucs, Packers just letting everyone go
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Again, they don't need Crabtree. Have the Packers let anyone go this year (aside from maybe Woodson) who had a huge impact last year? No.
And I don't think the cry babies will be out when we can resign Rodgers, Raji, and Matthews.
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I'm not crying over letting people go, just disappointed Crabtree is gone, was my favorite player. BTW everyone should follow him on Twitter if they aren't already, one of the funniest professional out there.
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Grantland on the Jennings signing.
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/54683/vikings-overpay-greg-jennings-continue-storied-tradition-of-scooping-up-ex-packers
Best line: "Thank sweet Jesus in heaven that Packers play like Vikings when they leave the Packers for the Vikings."
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Bears and Urlacher part ways.
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Bears and Urlacher part ways.
Not surprising at all. Bears offered 1 year at $2 Mill take or leave it offer. It was an ultimatum not a negotiation. Obviously Bears did not want him back.
Urlacher to the Patriots?
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Not surprising at all. Bears offered 1 year at $2 Mill take or leave it offer. It was an ultimatum not a negotiation. Obviously Bears did not want him back.
Urlacher to the Patriots?
Urlacher to the Packers?
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Urlacher to the Packers?
According to the Chicago reporters is that he will play for the NFL minimum just to put it back in the face of the Bear's upper management/Emery who doubt his current talent.
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Urlacher was a great Bear and gave a lot to the franchise and gave the fans a lot to cheer about, but there wasn't a lot of love lost between he and the fans recently, when he essentially said that they meant nothing. He was a great player but certainly a bit of an ass.
Trestman in an interview basically said he was a good first and second down LB.
Trestman also said just recently that Hester will be nothing but a return man. So thankful he isn't going to mess around with that like Lovie did.
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Best for all parties involved. 34 year old LB's who rely on speed and have a bum knee don't have much demand. I'll be surprised if he gets picked up. Would imagine he retreats back to AZ (I ran into him at a Chipotle in Chandler about a month ago), and tries to stay in shape.
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Trestman also said just recently that Hester will be nothing but a return man. So thankful he isn't going to mess around with that like Lovie did.
Lovie had nothing to do with turning Devin into a WR.
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do the Vikings need a linebacker too?
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do the Vikings need a linebacker too?
Yep. Welcome, Brian.
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Lovie had nothing to do with turning Devin into a WR.
I was actually a Lovie fan, and a Hester fan in general, but I still put some of the blame on Lovie for that. I understand that management paid him like he was one, but once the experiment failed, and failed again, and continued to fail, Lovie as the head coach has to put a stop to it and stop towing the company line.
Sure, most of it goes to management, but I guess my opinion of Lovie was higher than that of management so I expected more.
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9120385/oakland-raiders-trade-seattle-seahawks-matt-flynn
Flynn to the Raiders...
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The sweater/beard combo have me excited for the fall to get here!
(http://wac.9ebf.edgecastcdn.net/809EBF/ec-origin.chicago.barstoolsports.com/files/2013/04/Capture11.jpg)
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Clay Matthews contract extension is finalized: 5 years at $66M
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Clay Matthews contract extension is finalized: 5 years at $66M
Maybe now he can afford a haircut. GO BEARS!!
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Clay Matthews contract extension is finalized: 5 years at $66M
He'll be out of the league before that deal's up. Artificial bodies can only hold up for so long. Hopefully he saves his money so that he doesn't have to make any more awful cameos on The Mindy Project.
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He'll be out of the league before that deal's up. Artificial bodies can only hold up for so long. Hopefully he saves his money so that he doesn't have to make any more awful cameos on The Mindy Project.
Jealousy is a good color for you.
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Jealousy is a good color for you.
In what way was the jealousy?
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In what way was the jealousy?
+1
He won't see all those dollars. He's too small and will break down even quicker.
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He'll be out of the league before that deal's up. Artificial bodies can only hold up for so long. Hopefully he saves his money so that he doesn't have to make any more awful cameos on The Mindy Project.
I bet the bears fans you would all love him if he played for the Bears.
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In what way was the jealousy?
You're jealous that a damn good lb plays for a team you despise, so you're stating he is on 'roids without any evidence.
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You're jealous that a damn good lb plays for a team you despise, so you're stating he is on 'roids without any evidence.
Come on...
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I bet the bears fans you would all love him if he played for the Bears.
I'm sure we would...and we'd be able to admit that there's something "unnatural" about him.
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I'm sure we would...and we'd be able to admit that there's something "unnatural" about him.
I am ok with him looking "unnatural" As long as he continues to knock cutler and others on their ars
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Everyone in the NFL looks unnatural. Except some qb's and kickers.
Look at the Baltimore and 49er players. You think they get ripped like that by eating chicken breast?
The NFL testing is a joke and no HGH testing.
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Bears on national tv three times this upcoming season. At PIT for SNF in Week 3, hosting Giants on Oct 10 for Thurs night, and host Pokes for MNF first week of Dec. Bears close out season at home against Pack.
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With great talent falling in their laps, the Bears take the 24 year old guard that started in ten college games.
Love it.
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I have no problem with the Bears pick.Im glad they didnt take that TE from ND. Mostly cause I hate anything to do with Notre Dame but Bears shouldnt pick anything except offensive linemen until they can protect Cutler.
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I have no problem with the Bears pick.Im glad they didnt take that TE from ND. Mostly cause I hate anything to do with Notre Dame but Bears shouldnt pick anything except offensive linemen until they can protect Cutler.
Could have had him in the second round if they traded down, or similar talent with less character issues.
It's a bad pick, but guess Emery thought he was the most talented on the board. Just like Shea.
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SKOL VIKINGS
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SKOL VIKINGS
That's a nice first round haul.
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SKOL VIKINGS
Patterson, too. Vikings are having a nice draft.
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I thought all the FA acquisitions were supposed to allow the Bears to take the best player available? Kyle Long was not the best player available at 20. Eifert? Ogletree? Floyd?! Trufant? If you aren't taking 1 of those 4, trade down and get long in the second round. There was lots of trading down right around the Bears pick, although, according to Emery if Long was available then they weren't trading. Terrible pick.
And now hearing rumors of Bears trading down out of 2nd round to accumulate more picks. unnatural carnal knowledgeing terrible, if true.
Edit: Still annoyed.. if you're going to hold on to the pick and draft offense, what makes your team harder to defend... Kyle Long added to an already questionable line or Eifert added to Bennett, Marshall and Jeffrey? I still don't know how you pass up a potential Top 5 pick at 20 though (Floyd)
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I thought all the FA acquisitions were supposed to allow the Bears to take the best player available? Kyle Long was not the best player available at 20. Eifert? Ogletree? Floyd?! Trufant? If you aren't taking 1 of those 4, trade down and get long in the second round. There was lots of trading down right around the Bears pick, although, according to Emery if Long was available then they weren't trading. Terrible pick.
And now hearing rumors of Bears trading down out of 2nd round to accumulate more picks. unnatural carnal knowledgeing terrible, if true.
Edit: Still annoyed.. if you're going to hold on to the pick and draft offense, what makes your team harder to defend... Kyle Long added to an already questionable line or Eifert added to Bennett, Marshall and Jeffrey? I still don't know how you pass up a potential Top 5 pick at 20 though (Floyd)
Terrible pick by the Bears. A project with a history of alcohol abuse? Really? With Ogletree, Arthur Brown, Shariff Floyd, Eifert and Werner sitting on the board?
Other than some average production from the oft-injured Alshon Jeffery, the Bears got nothing from last year's draft class.
McClennin doesn't fit their scheme and was overwhelmed. Hardin was an injury-prone DB who (shockingly!) spent last season on IR. Rodriguez was an average FB who was not worth a 4th round pick. The other 2 draftees: practice squad and cut.
Not off to a great start in this draft either.
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I hope and I pray that either the Bears or the Vikings take Teo...it would make my Sundays all that more enjoyable.
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Patterson, too. Vikings are having a nice draft.
I liked that pick. It must have been tempting to look at Teo and be able to hold a presser saying "hey errbody, look! New defense!" But instead they took a better player who likely fits a more pressing need. It would have been even better if Tavon Austin were still around, but that's picking a nit.
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Terrible pick by the Bears. A project with a history of alcohol abuse? Really? With Ogletree, Arthur Brown, Shariff Floyd, Eifert and Werner sitting on the board?
I think you need to see what happens. I mean, the alcohol issues were four years ago. They may have overdrafted him, but they wanted to be sure. It's too hard to grade a draft before the players actually get on the field.
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I think you need to see what happens. I mean, the alcohol issues were four years ago. They may have overdrafted him, but they wanted to be sure. It's too hard to grade a draft before the players actually get on the field.
Long's combine numbers and pedigree are great, but when you reach a player has to over perform to justify it. There was maybe a 60-80% chance He would have fallen to the Bears in the 2nd round (#50 overall). So how much better is Eifert, for example, than who they'll likely get at #50? In general, I'd rather let others do the reaching and take the higher graded players who fall to me as a result of that reaching.
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Long's combine numbers and pedigree are great, but when you reach a player has to over perform to justify it. There was maybe a 60-80% chance He would have fallen to the Bears in the 2nd round (#50 overall). So how much better is Eifert, for example, than who they'll likely get at #50? In general, I'd rather let others do the reaching and take the higher graded players who fall to me as a result of that reaching.
He may not have been there at #50, but he likely would have been there in the 35-40 range. The Bears could have (theoretically) traded down, added a pick or two and still gotten their man.
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The Lions really rolled the dice with Ansah. IMO, the 5 pick is not where you take that big of a gamble. Immensely high ceiling, ridiculously low floor. Here's hoping.
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He may not have been there at #50, but he likely would have been there in the 35-40 range. The Bears could have (theoretically) traded down, added a pick or two and still gotten their man.
Well, if he is a 35-40..and they got him at the end of the first, I really don't think that is too terrible of a reach - especially if that is the guy they really want.
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Well, if he is a 35-40..and they got him at the end of the first, I really don't think that is too terrible of a reach - especially if that is the guy they really want.
The fact that it's being debated whether or not a 1st Round pick would have been available 15-30 picks later, tells me it's a reach. Aside from E.J. Manuel, do you think anyone else taken last night would have lasted another 20 picks? Or even 10 picks?
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The fact that it's being debated whether or not a 1st Round pick would have been available 15-30 picks later, tells me it's a reach. Aside from E.J. Manuel, do you think anyone else taken last night would have lasted another 20 picks? Or even 10 picks?
So what if the Bill traded down say 15 picks. And whomever is in pick #14 takes him. The Bills are kicking themselves then.
This is why I think some of this draft analysis gets silly. If you see a guy you like and you *really* want, you should just take him even if you think he would be available 10-20 spots lower. It really isn't worth the risk.
Now if the Bills were fine with either Manuel OR Smith, then I think you can make that trade. Because the risk isn't as high.
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So what if the Bill traded down say 15 picks. And whomever is in pick #14 takes him. The Bills are kicking themselves then.
This is why I think some of this draft analysis gets silly. If you see a guy you like and you *really* want, you should just take him even if you think he would be available 10-20 spots lower. It really isn't worth the risk.
Now if the Bills were fine with either Manuel OR Smith, then I think you can make that trade. Because the risk isn't as high.
It is silly to grade a draft without results unless it's a stupid pick. While Long may not have been stupid, Emery looks stupid when he makes quotes like, "We will draft the best available talent."
Long was surely not the best available player.
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Wow for you Pack fans. Rogers signs extension for 110 million, with 40M payout next year. Wow.......
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Wow for you Pack fans. Rogers signs extension for 110 million, with 40M payout next year. Wow.......
Packers have more than $200M in cash reserves. Not going to be a problem.
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Amazingly friendly contract. Thought this one was going to hurt a lot more.
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Christian Ponder reacts...hilarious...
http://instagram.com/p/YlT8wXgZDF/
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Packers have more than $200M in cash reserves. Not going to be a problem.
Time to issue more stock.
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Te'o to San Diego. At least it sort of rhymes.
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TT moves up to get Lacy. Nice move.
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I don't think he moved up....he moved back.
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I don't think he moved up....he moved back.
Meant up in number, poor choice of words.
Still like it!
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My goodness. Is Teo the next Tebow for ESPN? Is he all they are going to talk about now?
EDIT: Dilfer: "There is no test for competitive will." <puke>
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My goodness. Is Teo the next Tebow for ESPN? Is he all they are going to talk about now?
EDIT: Dilfer: "There is no test for competitive will." <puke>
(http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/dStks0lbjZ1Lu8zi8xDLHg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NQ--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusmlbexperts/twtw042513.jpg)
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Hawk Harrellson and Manti Teo. Perfect.
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Love Lacy pick, absolutely love it. Tremendous value, just a great pick.
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Lacy is too slow and won't be more jacked up than everyone else like in college. If we're going to take a back, Christine Michael was the dude. I was more inclined to get an o lineman there to actually open up a hole.
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I would have preferred taking Monte Ball with the pick they had instead of trading down. But I know absolutely nothing about how to judge an NFL running back.
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This is going to sound strange, but I want the bears to take Barkley if he's available today.
Edit: damn.
also, what a ride for Barkley. Top 10 pick a year ago. 4th round this year. Staying for your senior year doesn't always pay off.
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This is going to sound strange, but I want the bears to take Barkley if he's available today.
Edit: damn.
also, what a ride for Barkley. Top 10 pick a year ago. 4th round this year. Staying for your senior year doesn't always pay off.
Yep. Leinhart had the same mistake. He would have been number one overall ahead of Alex smith had he come out early but stayed and fell to 10. (Granted, that isn't nearly as bad as Barkley but back before the current CBA he probably cost himself a hefty chunk of change)
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Honey Badger really wishes he was drafted by Denver..
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Welp, I guess the Bears deemed the this LB/OL draft...
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Welp, I guess the Bears deemed the this LB/OL draft...
I watched every Florida game this year. The linebacker the Bears drafted, Bostic is a nasty, vicious beast machine. Don't care for the Bears, but that was a great selection for them.
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Yep. Leinhart had the same mistake. He would have been number one overall ahead of Alex smith had he come out early but stayed and fell to 10. (Granted, that isn't nearly as bad as Barkley but back before the current CBA he probably cost himself a hefty chunk of change)
And the one who made the right choice was the one who defied his college coach and came out early despite Pete Carroll's advice, Mark Sanchez. After getting picked fifth, he's okay even if he can't reverse his career's current downward direction.
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And the one who made the right choice was the one who defied his college coach and came out early despite Pete Carroll's advice, Mark Sanchez. After getting picked fifth, he's okay even if he can't reverse his career's current downward direction.
Sanchez was right to come out when he did. Spending another year in college would have done nothing but exposed his flaws.
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And the one who made the right choice was the one who defied his college coach and came out early despite Pete Carroll's advice, Mark Sanchez. After getting picked fifth, he's okay even if he can't reverse his career's current downward direction.
Honestly, I think it would be awesome if the Packers could get ahold of Sanchez on the cheap. Our backup QB situation terrifies me and I would love to see what Sanchez could do if he was actually given the chance to learn, and the pressure of being QB of the NY Jets was gone.
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Pretty good, thorough article on HGH usage in the NFL (and Bama).
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/hgh-use-in-nfl-increasing-fk9hbg9-205497661.html (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/hgh-use-in-nfl-increasing-fk9hbg9-205497661.html)
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Christian Ponder reacts...hilarious...
http://instagram.com/p/YlT8wXgZDF/
Ponder gets Sam Steele. Rodgers gets the $$.
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Ponder gets Sam Steele. Rodgers gets the $$.
http://bustedcoverage.com/2012/11/13/the-34-best-photos-of-destiny-newton-aaron-rodgers-fiancee/
I think Aaron Rodgers did *OK* for himself on the female front as well...
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http://bustedcoverage.com/2012/11/13/the-34-best-photos-of-destiny-newton-aaron-rodgers-fiancee/
I think Aaron Rodgers did *OK* for himself on the female front as well...
Can't really say the face is there.
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Can't really say the face is there.
Yeah.. borderline butterface at times. Her dark-haired friend is pretty cute though.
Just not a super pretty girl. Not sure Rodgers is into women anyway.
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Looks like the Vikings/MInneapolis is a out to get something right...this looks as good as the Metrodome is bad.
http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/207314401.html (http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/207314401.html)
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Looks like the Vikings/MInneapolis is a out to get something right...this looks as good as the Metrodome is bad.
http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/207314401.html (http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/207314401.html)
The photos remind me of the "new" Soldier Field - great on the inside but awful-looking from the outside.
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The photos remind me of the "new" Soldier Field - great on the inside but awful-looking from the outside.
What is awful about it, other than the price tag?
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What is awful about it, other than the price tag?
Not sure what's great about it either.
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Great selling point. "Hey guys, our franchise is such a joke that we can share our football stadium with the basketball team and all the college athletics in the city!"
SKOL QUEENS!
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What is awful about it, other than the price tag?
It looks like an eye-sore from the outside.
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Ugly on the outside, the glass is interesting.
Also, I find most modern stadiums to be pretty ugly. The ballparks are usually pretty cool, but football/soccer/Olympic style stuff seems to be ultra-modern, which I'm not wild about.
I like old-school styling, but the glass roof is pretty interesting. Would be cool to be sitting in there on a cold, but sunny afternoon.
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Oh you guys are just being grumps. Soldier Field looks dumb because they built it on top of the old one. Otherwise it would be fine. I think this looks good too. Much better than the old cookie cutters or even the modern stadiums that are indistinguishable from one other. Unique is good.
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Oh you guys are just being grumps. Soldier Field looks dumb because they built it on top of the old one. Otherwise it would be fine. I think this looks good too. Much better than the old cookie cutters or even the modern stadiums that are indistinguishable from one other. Unique is good.
That's exactly why Solder Field looks dumb. It looks like a UFO landed in Soldier Field much like this design will look like a UFO has landed in downtown Minneapolis.
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IMHO who cares what it looks like on the outside. The fans will be on the inside, the game is played on the inside and I think that is the only thing that matters. Fan experience, sightlines, aesthetics etc. are what matter. Player and fan experience trump the DirecTV blimp view. Full disclosure I despise the Vikings.
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Gabe Carimi traded from Bears to Bucs for 6th round post. Allegedly, the new staff never even considered Carimi as a tackle and had him 4th on depth chart as guard. There are now 0 first round picks from the Angelo era still on the roster. What a terrible GM in terms of drafting early rounds.
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Gabe Carimi traded from Bears to Bucs for 6th round post. Allegedly, the new staff never even considered Carimi as a tackle and had him 4th on depth chart as guard. There are now 0 first round picks from the Angelo era still on the roster. What a terrible GM in terms of drafting early rounds.
Would have liked to see how Carimi progressed without the knee injury his rookie year. He showed some potential. Then again, the knock on him was a history of injuries IIRC.
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Would have liked to see how Carimi progressed without the knee injury his rookie year. He showed some potential. Then again, the knock on him was a history of injuries IIRC.
Outside of Joe Thomas, UW tackles have largely been disappointments in the NFL. Their interior linemen have done much better.