2012 NFC North/NFL Thread

[MU B2002]

Agreed, I meant to add in that most quarterbacks will get on someone when they aren't on the right page, but then they move on. Cutler continues to pout and whine on the bench for the entire defensive series rather than look at pictures from the drive or get on the phone with and talk to the coordinator like the elite quarterbacks do, and then he throws his towel around when the other team scores. It's just horrible leadership.

I guess I missed the channel that shows what Cutler is doing on the sideline for the entire defensive possession.  They broadcast him throwing his hands up and getting mad because showing that Cutler is a "bad teammate" is what the media loves to do.  

[Hards Alumni]

I guess I missed the channel that shows what Cutler is doing on the sideline for the entire defensive possession.  They broadcast him throwing his hands up and getting mad because showing that Cutler is a "bad teammate" is what the media loves to do.  

Maybe he should learn to not do it if he wants it to stop?

Aina?

[MerrittsMustache]

Maybe he should learn to not do it if he wants it to stop?

Aina?

He doesn't care.

[GGGG]

Nor should he.  Cutler was actually playing a pretty decent game until that interception, and frankly I would be pissed too if I had no better receivers opposite Marshall than a rookie and Devin Hester....who still can't run the right route apparently.

Neglectful drafting and poor offensive coaching.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

He has all the tools except from the neck up.

Maybe, but I just don't want to use a tired cliche like that.

Strengths: Arm strength, athleticism, accuracy, seems bright and understand the offense.

Weaknesses: Doesn't seem to be able to spread the ball around, doesn't seem to make others better, maybe a little too animated as a leader.

I think he's above average, but he's not a top tier guy. Is he as good as Matt Schaub? Matt Ryan? Romo? Even Newton, who everybody thought the league had "figured out" is better statistically.

Maybe Jay just isn't as good as we think.

[GGGG]

Weaknesses: Doesn't seem to be able to spread the ball around,

To whom?

[hairy worthen]

Maybe, but I just don't want to use a tired cliche like that.

Strengths: Arm strength, athleticism, accuracy, seems bright and understand the offense.

Weaknesses: Doesn't seem to be able to spread the ball around, doesn't seem to make others better, maybe a little too animated as a leader.

I think he's above average, but he's not a top tier guy. Is he as good as Matt Schaub? Matt Ryan? Romo? Even Newton, who everybody thought the league had "figured out" is better statistically.

Maybe Jay just isn't as good as we think.

All the weaknesses you state are mental not physical.  You are correct maybe he isn’t as good as people thought, but he just seems to be missing that intangible something that leaders and winners have.
  
What would you think of a president who blamed everybody else for their problems…..oh wait.. never mind.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

To whom?

It's chicken or the egg, I suppose.

Do the QBs make the receivers or can the receivers make the QB?

Top tier QBs seem to elevate average receivers. I just haven't seen Jay really do that.

Give him a running game, great receivers and a good defense, and you can win a lot of games. But, so can 10-15 other QBs in the league.

[hairy worthen]

To whom?

good point, but if you watch him, a lot of times he focuses on one receiver for the whole play.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

[qote author=hairyworthen link=topic=33505.msg429222#msg429222 date=1355759506]
All the weaknesses you state are mental not physical.  You are correct maybe he isn’t as good as people thought, but he just seems to be missing that intangible something that leaders and winners have.
  
What would you think of a president who blamed everybody else for their problems…..oh wait.. never mind.


[/quote]

Ability to spread the ball around isn't just a mental thing. Some QB's are just faster physically and mentally at progressions and can move the ball around.

Rogers is great at it. Manning, Brees, etc.

[DegenerateDish]

Jay is who he is. He's surly, probably too intelligent for his own good (went to Vanderbilt). Look at what the Bears have given him in his time in Chicago:

-Little to no WR help
-Zero TE help
-One of the poorest o-lines in the league every year
-Constant changing of QB coaches/Offensive Coordinators

If you were an outside sales rep, and you had a new manager every 6 months, awful inside sales help, little help from your marketing dept, you'd be frustrated too.

He has a hell of an arm, more athletic than he is given credit for. His mechanics break down, and he trusts his arm too much at times, and bad things happen. Yesterday's pick was brutal, just a killer turnover.

[hairy worthen]

[qote author=hairyworthen link=topic=33505.msg429222#msg429222 date=1355759506]
All the weaknesses you state are mental not physical.  You are correct maybe he isn’t as good as people thought, but he just seems to be missing that intangible something that leaders and winners have.
  
What would you think of a president who blamed everybody else for their problems…..oh wait.. never mind.




Ability to spread the ball around isn't just a mental thing. Some QB's are just faster physically and mentally[/b] at progressions and can move the ball around.

Rogers is great at it. Manning, Brees, etc.

Right like I said mental. You are correct it is physical as well, but Cutler does most of the physical things well, you would think he would have the physical ability to spread the ball around.

[hairy worthen]

Jay is who he is. He's surly, probably too intelligent for his own good (went to Vanderbilt). Look at what the Bears have given him in his time in Chicago:

-Little to no WR help
-Zero TE help
-One of the poorest o-lines in the league every year
-Constant changing of QB coaches/Offensive Coordinators

If you were an outside sales rep, and you had a new manager every 6 months, awful inside sales help, little help from your marketing dept, you'd be frustrated too.

He has a hell of an arm, more athletic than he is given credit for. His mechanics break down, and he trusts his arm too much at times, and bad things happen. Yesterday's pick was brutal, just a killer turnover.

When does the blame start falling on Cutler instead of everything else.  I heard Martz was the problem last year because he didn’t run a system that fit the makeup of the team, so they get a new oc. I heard they didn’t have enough big skill receivers, so they draft Jeffery and pick up Marshall. At the beginning of the season Cutler was spouting off how no one could stop his receivers and the new Bear offense.  At some point at least some of the blame has to fall on the QB. He gets the credit when they do well.

[Hards Alumni]

Right like I said mental. You are correct it is physical as well, but Cutler does most of the physical things well, you would think he would have the physical ability to spread the ball around.

Jay has a major problems forgetting what happened on the previous play.  That is his main problem.

As for his team's problems... that has been addressed pretty well in this thread.

[DegenerateDish]

When does the blame start falling on Cutler instead of everything else.  I heard Martz was the problem last year because he didn’t run a system that fit the makeup of the team, so they get a new oc. I heard they didn’t have enough big skill receivers, so they draft Jeffery and pick up Marshall. At the beginning of the season Cutler was spouting off how no one could stop his receivers and the new Bear offense.  At some point at least some of the blame has to fall on the QB. He gets the credit when they do well.

I gave Cutler proper blame.

[hairy worthen]

I gave Cutler proper blame.

you yes, others no

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Right like I said mental. You are correct it is physical as well, but Cutler does most of the physical things well, you would think he would have the physical ability to spread the ball around.

Well, I'll add to that:

The top guys have fantastic footwork and can usually slide/extend plays to get to the 2nd and 3rd option. Neither Manning or Brady are great runners, but they are great in the pocket, and can extend the play an extra second to find the 3rd option.

That's a physical ability that not many QB's have.

[hairy worthen]

Well, I'll add to that:

The top guys have fantastic footwork and can usually slide/extend plays to get to the 2nd and 3rd option. Neither Manning or Brady are great runners, but they are great in the pocket, and can extend the play an extra second to find the 3rd option.

That's a physical ability that not many QB's have.

Agree

[DegenerateDish]

To pile on the Bears issues is the play of Forte. I was strongly against giving him anything other than the franchise tag, unless it's AP, I don't believe in giving out long term/big money deals to RB's.

Besides his mediocre play, he's an issue in the locker room. His deal is going to end up being a bad one for the Bears.

[MerrittsMustache]

Right like I said mental. You are correct it is physical as well, but Cutler does most of the physical things well, you would think he would have the physical ability to spread the ball around.

Marshall is the only receiver that Cutler trusts and the only WR who knows how to get open. There have been countless times throughout the season where a play starts to breakdown and Cutler moves around in or out of the pocket and every receiver aside from Marshall is standing still. Watch the receivers for GB, or just about any other decent NFL/college team, and you'll see receivers working to get open when the play is breaking down.

Keep in mind that the Bears also have been implementing a lot of max protect schemes because of their porous offensive line. That means there are few players actually running routes, sometimes as few as two. One of those players is always Brandon Marshall.

Bears' QBs have completed 57.4% of their passes to WRs and TEs. Take away Marshall's numbers and that falls to 50.8%. In other words, half of the Bears passes that aren't thrown to Marshall or dumped off are incomplete. That's dreadful and says a lot about the Bears weapons on offense. That doesn't mean Cutler isn't part of the problem but he's pretty far down the list of offensive concerns.

[RJax55]

To pile on the Bears issues is the play of Forte. I was strongly against giving him anything other than the franchise tag, unless it's AP, I don't believe in giving out long term/big money deals to RB's.

Besides his mediocre play, he's an issue in the locker room. His deal is going to end up being a bad one for the Bears.

True, but Tice is using him extremely poorly. Forte is not a good in the box runner. He's best when attacking the defense at the edges. Even though Martz had his issues, his biggest positive was that he completely understood how to use Forte both in the running and passing game.

In addition, he runs behind that garbage line. Yesterday, it seemed that on almost half his carries (especially after the 1st quarter), he was dodging Packer defenders in the backfield.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Marshall is the only receiver that Cutler trusts and the only WR who knows how to get open. There have been countless times throughout the season where a play starts to breakdown and Cutler moves around in or out of the pocket and every receiver aside from Marshall is standing still. Watch the receivers for GB, or just about any other decent NFL/college team, and you'll see receivers working to get open when the play is breaking down.

Keep in mind that the Bears also have been implementing a lot of max protect schemes because of their porous offensive line. That means there are few players actually running routes, sometimes as few as two. One of those players is always Brandon Marshall.

Bears' QBs have completed 57.4% of their passes to WRs and TEs. Take away Marshall's numbers and that falls to 50.8%. In other words, half of the Bears passes that aren't thrown to Marshall or dumped off are incomplete. That's dreadful and says a lot about the Bears weapons on offense. That doesn't mean Cutler isn't part of the problem but he's pretty far down the list of offensive concerns.

I think you are right, but just for comparison, Ponder's numbers look relatively similar to Culter, he doesn't have any receivers, and everybody thinks he's bad (including me).

Using the eye test, obv. Jay has talent, but maybe he's more of a problem then we think.

I say this as somebody who defended Jay the past few years, but now I'm just looking at the facts.

Even in the future, the Bears might be best running the ball more and using Jay's abilities more selectively/conservatively.

He's very effective in certain spots, so the key will be to put him in those positions and to limit his exposure (duh).  

[jesmu84]

Marshall is the only receiver that Cutler trusts and the only WR who knows how to get open. There have been countless times throughout the season where a play starts to breakdown and Cutler moves around in or out of the pocket and every receiver aside from Marshall is standing still. Watch the receivers for GB, or just about any other decent NFL/college team, and you'll see receivers working to get open when the play is breaking down.

Keep in mind that the Bears also have been implementing a lot of max protect schemes because of their porous offensive line. That means there are few players actually running routes, sometimes as few as two. One of those players is always Brandon Marshall.

Bears' QBs have completed 57.4% of their passes to WRs and TEs. Take away Marshall's numbers and that falls to 50.8%. In other words, half of the Bears passes that aren't thrown to Marshall or dumped off are incomplete. That's dreadful and says a lot about the Bears weapons on offense. That doesn't mean Cutler isn't part of the problem but he's pretty far down the list of offensive concerns.

I've been mentioning this problem for the past few years to friends. Darryl Drake has been on the Bears' staff as the WR coach for 9 years. Somehow, he's survived every change at OC (I think I heard once that he's close with Lovie and that's the reason he's still there). And in that time? Basically no significant development of any WR or TE. We all saw how the Hester-as-a-#1-WR project turned out. I'm scared for the development of Jeffrey (who seems to have all the physical tools) if Drake remains.

I can't remember specifics, but during Martz's tenure, one of the younger WRs (maybe Bennett), mentioned that Martz taught them where to run (deep to shallow, etc) when a play breaks down/QB is scrambling...wtf?! How does a WR coach not know the basics of his position???!

[martyconlonontherun]

I think its more than just body language with Cutler. See how Webb and Moore feel about the guy. If the bears did a secret survey, how many of them would honestly respond that they trust Cutler as a leader?

I just don't know how you can root for a guy who just gives up. He showed absolutely no desire to play on that last series. I don't care how bad the odds are or how bad your o-line is, you rush up to the line and frantically try to get 1 or more plays off. Your season is on the line.

[Hards Alumni]

I've been mentioning this problem for the past few years to friends. Darryl Drake has been on the Bears' staff as the WR coach for 9 years. Somehow, he's survived every change at OC (I think I heard once that he's close with Lovie and that's the reason he's still there). And in that time? Basically no significant development of any WR or TE. We all saw how the Hester-as-a-#1-WR project turned out. I'm scared for the development of Jeffrey (who seems to have all the physical tools) if Drake remains.

I can't remember specifics, but during Martz's tenure, one of the younger WRs (maybe Bennett), mentioned that Martz taught them where to run (deep to shallow, etc) when a play breaks down/QB is scrambling...wtf?! How does a WR coach not know the basics of his position???!

They have really had the same WR coach for the last 9 years?  That is totally unfathomable.  How does the guy deserve his job?  holy christ.