2012 NFC North/NFL Thread

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

You'll make it a lot easier for defenses when they know what's coming 100% of the time.  No balance, pin the ears back, Rodgers would be dead by the middle of the season.

Everybody knows you are passing on 3rd and 5, and teams still figure out how to pick up first downs.

I'd need a statistician to study it and tell me if 100% passing could work.

Obviously the protections would have to change because you don't have play action or the element of surprise, but in theory, it's possible.

It's sort of like the evolving views in baseball. Sacrifices were once considered automatic. Now, they aren't. A "running game" was once considered automatic, but maybe it's a waste of a play. You have a finite number of plays in a game, so why waste it on a running play?

[Hards Alumni]

So do I have a little company out there now?  Anyone still think that McCarthy is a great coach?

[Blackhat]

This is the beautiful thing.  You can assign blame to whoever you want.


McCarthy is the one who makes this team above average.  He is an offensive coach who I feel is a great developer of the qb position and has a great offensive design.


However, when you can never get a consistent push on both lines you will struggle to win.    The team needs to improve its strength and power along the lines.

[GGGG]

So do I have a little company out there now?  Anyone still think that McCarthy is a great coach?

I think he is a very good coach.

[NavinRJohnson]

So do I have a little company out there now?  Anyone still think that McCarthy is a great coach?

Pretty easily one of the top 3-5 coaches in the NFL.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Everybody knows you are passing on 3rd and 5, and teams still figure out how to pick up first downs.

I'd need a statistician to study it and tell me if 100% passing could work.

Obviously the protections would have to change because you don't have play action or the element of surprise, but in theory, it's possible.

It's sort of like the evolving views in baseball. Sacrifices were once considered automatic. Now, they aren't. A "running game" was once considered automatic, but maybe it's a waste of a play. You have a finite number of plays in a game, so why waste it on a running play?

I disagree, 3rd and five according to the stats teams still run it 18% of the time.  



The problem with passing all the time is also time of possession.  You keep your defense on the field all the time.  You don't wear out the other team, you wear out your own defense, you put your qb in jeopardy way too much.

[Sir Lawrence]

I'll admit, I'm a bitter, downtrodden Packer fan. BUT, I am very pleased that Seattle lost.  Did Carroll really try to deny that he called a time out on the end of game field goal?

[Blackhat]

I'll admit, I'm a bitter, downtrodden Packer fan. BUT, I am very pleased that Seattle lost.  Did Carroll really try to deny that he called a time out on the end of game field goal?

Yeah, that was pathetic.

[wadesworld]

I'll admit, I'm a bitter, downtrodden Packer fan. BUT, I am very pleased that Seattle lost.  Did Carroll really try to deny that he called a time out on the end of game field goal?

That dude is such a slimeball douchebag (excuse the language) it's not even funny.  That picture of him standing next to the ref, both of them signaling a touchdown, at the end of the Packers game sums him up completely http://www.packerforum.com/threads/did-the-nfl-ever-think-it-would-get-this-bad.39378/ (bottom of the article, can't figure out how to embed the picture itself).  Would any other coach in the NFL have done that?  Even if the correct call had been made (it wasn't), an NFL coach would maybe show excitement, but not like that.  That's something a 5 year old would've done.  And there are some real clowns that coach in the NFL (Schwartz, the Harbaughs come to mind).

Thank God they lost.  If the 4 coaches left in the Playoffs had been Pete Carroll, the Harbaughs, and Bill Belichick I wouldn't have watched another football game this year.  Now at least I can stand one of the teams/coaches.

I hate the Bears and the Vikings, but at least they had/have respectable, classy coaches now.  "Chilli" was just too easy to make fun of, so at times I miss that guy, but Frazier seems like a good guy and Lovie did too.  Schwartz?  Well, no.  And all of these teams take on the personalities of their coaches big time.  Lions?  Thugs.  9ers?  Big time trash talking, dirty team (well coached, no doubt, but complete punks).  Ravens?  Same deal.  Patriots?  Completely condescending.  Seahawks?  I guess I don't really have a problem with their players.  But I definitely do with their coach.

[jesmu84]

I'll admit, I'm a bitter, downtrodden Packer fan. BUT, I am very pleased that Seattle lost.  Did Carroll really try to deny that he called a time out on the end of game field goal?

Total guess here... but I thought he might have been upset that the Falcons snapped the ball and Bryant took the kick, seeing as how the refs signaled for timeout way before the ball was snapped. He may have thought it was unfair that Bryant got a free practice kick seeing as they called the TO so early.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Carroll was upset at the practice kick.  He was told before the game practice kicks wouldn't be allowed.  That's what he was upset about.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000125862/article/pete-carroll-officials-said-practice-kicks-wouldnt-be-allowed?campaign=Twitter_atl

[Blackhat]

Would not put it past him to make that up. 

How the hell would refs be able to stop a practice kick?   

[MU B2002]

Wades, you think sf and bal talk trash but you are ok with Sea?? Richard sherman may talk more trash than any player I have seen this season.


Pete Carroll should be mad at his OC who decided to turn Russell Wilson into a dropback qb for the first half.  It seems they forgot that the zone option/spread option/whatever they call it was actually pretty effective.  Oh, that and their pathetic clock management at the half.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Would not put it past him to make that up. 

How the hell would refs be able to stop a practice kick?   

If you watch the video, the timeout is called and he has no issue, then Bryant kicks the ball and that's when he gets hot. 

Nothing made up.  Whether he is right or wrong on the practice stuff is another story, but he certainly wasn't complaining about the timeout.   I can't stand the guy, but I'm not going to bury him for something he didn't do.  The television announcers were just flat out wrong.  ESPN has a nice angle on it tonight with their video...anyone that watches that and comes away thinking he was complaining about the timeout will look foolish.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I disagree, 3rd and five according to the stats teams still run it 18% of the time.  



The problem with passing all the time is also time of possession.  You keep your defense on the field all the time.  You don't wear out the other team, you wear out your own defense, you put your qb in jeopardy way too much.

The time of possession issue would be a concern, no doubt. Law of unintended consequences.

As far as putting the QB in too much jeopardy, I think that's just a cliche that we all buy into. A good team and innovative coordinator could figure out how to mix in enough max protect and short screen passes to keep a defense off of the QB.

Volume of sacks would go up (65passin attempts per game), but if the percentage of sacks stayed the same, then the risk might be worth it.

It'll never happen, but an innovative coach/coordinator could do something interesting. Maybe Cobb is the starting RB?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Every team has trash talkers and condescending players....as well as players that are quiet which seldom make the news.  When you think of the Cowboys in the 1990's, you saw arrogant Michael Irvin or arrogant defensive players, rarely did people focus on quiet Aikman, church going Moose Johnston, etc.  Just the nature of the beast.  The better the team, the more the trash talking players are highlighted in the media.  The better the team, the more the personality of the coaches are put out there in the spotlight...for better or worse.

I would love to have either Harbaugh as my head coach.  As much as I can't stand Carroll, would love to have him as well.  They are winners...they find a way to motivate football players to win games.  Seattle was a complete joke a few years ago, and they were seconds away from playing in a game to go to the Super Bowl.  It took huge juevos to spend all that money on Flynn and start a rookie QB.  Have to tip the hat to the guy as a football coach.  Harbaugh, same deal, benches Smith who was playing fine in the middle of the season.  Gigantic juevos...and now he's playing to go to the Super Bowl.  I'd love to have a coach like that.

For the McCarthy lovers and certain former MU coach haters, remember they are close.  Kind of ironic, in some ways. 

[Blackhat]

saw the video.   Of course he's not going to argue until he misses that doesn't prove anything.    He's arguing with the guy he called the time out with as well.

Either way, if Carroll wasn't such a slime ball I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.   In this case I won't.

[MUfan12]

I'll admit, I'm a bitter, downtrodden Packer fan. BUT, I am very pleased that Seattle lost.

I'm with you. Ball don't lie, Seattle.

[77ncaachamps]

"And the Seahawks are out...GOOD!"

[DegenerateDish]

I thought Carroll made a bunch of errors in judgment that cost them that game.

I know this doesn't make a ton of sense, but I would have taken a knee if I was Seattle after the 12 men on the field penalty (on the play where Lynch scored/fumbled at the goal line). There were 34 seconds left, Seattle had two timeouts. Obviously they're giving up one play, but there was too much time left there. They could have taken a knee at the Atlanta 2, then called timeout with 18 seconds left. It would have set up 2nd and goal from the two, 18 ticks, two timeouts. If anything, Atlanta would have had a decision to make. Burn one of their timeouts or not.

Second decision I would have made if I was Carroll is the reverse icing of the kicker. I would have trotted Longwell out with 2 seconds left, told him "I'm going to call timeout before you kick, but kick it anyway" to see if he had the leg to hit from 65 on the final play.

[jesmu84]

Second decision I would have made if I was Carroll is the reverse icing of the kicker. I would have trotted Longwell out with 2 seconds left, told him "I'm going to call timeout before you kick, but kick it anyway" to see if he had the leg to hit from 65 on the final play.

This is a hell of an idea. Has any coach tried this before? It's kind of brilliant, actually. Like throwing a challenge flag on a touchdown/turnover play of your own team, to negate the automatic official's challenge (if you know you'd lose the challenge and take the TD off the board/turnover away) - can't wait for some coach to try that one.

[GGGG]

At the peak of his career, Ryan Longwell couldn't kick a 65 yard field goal....with a hurricane force wind at his back.

[martyconlonontherun]

This is a hell of an idea. Has any coach tried this before? It's kind of brilliant, actually. Like throwing a challenge flag on a touchdown/turnover play of your own team, to negate the automatic official's challenge (if you know you'd lose the challenge and take the TD off the board/turnover away) - can't wait for some coach to try that one.

A coach may get away with it once but I'm sure they will give a penalty after a league warning. Hell, the refs will probably tell the coach if his own player kicks the ball its an unsportsmanlike conduct the first time the coach tries it.

[MU B2002]

Now that Jesmu84 ruined it.

[wadesworld]

I thought Carroll made a bunch of errors in judgment that cost them that game.

I know this doesn't make a ton of sense, but I would have taken a knee if I was Seattle after the 12 men on the field penalty (on the play where Lynch scored/fumbled at the goal line). There were 34 seconds left, Seattle had two timeouts. Obviously they're giving up one play, but there was too much time left there. They could have taken a knee at the Atlanta 2, then called timeout with 18 seconds left. It would have set up 2nd and goal from the two, 18 ticks, two timeouts. If anything, Atlanta would have had a decision to make. Burn one of their timeouts or not.

Second decision I would have made if I was Carroll is the reverse icing of the kicker. I would have trotted Longwell out with 2 seconds left, told him "I'm going to call timeout before you kick, but kick it anyway" to see if he had the leg to hit from 65 on the final play.

I respect your football opinion but I could not disagree with you anymore on the bolded point.  You cannot worry about leaving X amount of time on the clock when you are losing and need a touchdown.  If all you need is a field goal to win the game then absolutely you can take a knee, get it into the middle of the field, and run the time down so that it is a game winner (or loser), but when you need to get into the end zone you doso with 34 seconds left without even considering anything else.  You are risking way too much in playing with the clock.  The time doesn't matter if you don't get into the end zone.  The more plays you run, the more chances of fumbling the ball, wasting downs and thus not getting into the end zone, etc. you have.  You can't waste opportunities to get into the end zone to worry about leaving time on the clock, especially when it's just 34 seconds left.  2nd down and goal at the 2 is far, far from a guarantee to score a touchdown.  You take the points as soon as you can and you take your chances with your defense.

Every team has trash talkers and condescending players....as well as players that are quiet which seldom make the news.  When you think of the Cowboys in the 1990's, you saw arrogant Michael Irvin or arrogant defensive players, rarely did people focus on quiet Aikman, church going Moose Johnston, etc.  Just the nature of the beast.  The better the team, the more the trash talking players are highlighted in the media.  The better the team, the more the personality of the coaches are put out there in the spotlight...for better or worse.

I would love to have either Harbaugh as my head coach.  As much as I can't stand Carroll, would love to have him as well.  They are winners...they find a way to motivate football players to win games.  Seattle was a complete joke a few years ago, and they were seconds away from playing in a game to go to the Super Bowl.  It took huge juevos to spend all that money on Flynn and start a rookie QB.  Have to tip the hat to the guy as a football coach.  Harbaugh, same deal, benches Smith who was playing fine in the middle of the season.  Gigantic juevos...and now he's playing to go to the Super Bowl.  I'd love to have a coach like that.

For the McCarthy lovers and certain former MU coach haters, remember they are close.  Kind of ironic, in some ways.  

Agreed that every NFL team has their trash talkers and every NFL team has their quiet, humble guys.  But to say all teams are equal in terms of that is just wrong.  The 49ers and Packers both had quite a bit of hype surrounding them throughout the entire season and neither 1 was considered significantly better or worse than the other, so I don't think one team is having their trash talking players highlighted more than the other because they are a better team.  Just look at the difference between the two teams in terms of their on field antics.  The 49ers are punching players helmets every single time they wrap up a ball carrier as they are taking them to the ground.  They play as dirty as I have seen a team in quite some time (which is also 1 of the reasons they are so good...incredibly aggressive team).  They talk non stop.  I have never seen Greg Jennings go running up to get in a defender's face and he did it 2 or 3 times in 1 series.  I doubt he just decided that he would start doing that from now on.  They go sprinting at the ref at every single call that goes against them, no matter how blatant the call was.  There was a helmet to helmet call against the 49ers in the middle of a pile that the replay showed was a CLEAR helmet to helmet hit (somebody hit Harris as he was falling forward while being tackled) and you see Harbaugh SCREAMING "THAT'S F*CKING BULLSH!T!!"  How could Harbaugh possibly know that?  There was absolutely 0% chance he saw what the call was.  And it was as clear as day that it was the correct call on the replay, and I'm guessing the ref didn't just take a random stab and ironically get it right.  That's how every single call against them went the whole night, and the whole team reacted the same way every single time.  Even stupid stuff like the difference between touchdown celebrations.  Aaron Rodgers does a cheesy, sarcastic "Title Belt" while Collin Kaepernik flexes his muscles and "kisses" them.  The only person who I can think of that acts relatively close to the way the entire 49ers team acts is Jermichael Finley, who is a complete idiot.

And how about the Lions?  They were OK for 1 year in the last like 20, and yet they are all over the media because of all of the trash talk, dirty play, and legal issues they have going on.  And Schwartz is the same way as Harbaugh does on the sidelines.

The ending of the Seahawks vs. Packers game is another perfect example of the difference between teams.  Carroll is out on the field making the call along with the refs and then talking about what a great play Golden Tate made and what a great throw Russell Wilson made while McCarthy is ignoring the media attempts to pull him into the controversy, just as his team was.  Can you imagine if the rolls were reversed?  Carroll (and if it had happened to either Harbaugh or Schwartz) would've been out on the field tackling the ref along with his team, while McCarthy and the Packers players would've been talking about how they won a game because of a call that went their way and how they have a lot of work to do.

See the Harbaugh/Schwartz handshake.  Not many NFL coaches would a) get that fired up over a midseason win that he bumps/disrespects the opposing coach during a postgame handshake and b) respond how Schwartz did to it.  They're both pricks.

Also, what does McCarthy and Crean being close have to do with anything?  And are they even close, or does Crean just think/pretend they're close?  Even if they are, you don't have any friends with different personalities than yours?  That must be boring.