2012 NFC North/NFL Thread

[MU B2002]

I'm saying that their defense is overrated as shown by what a mediocre offense, built to play on a dry, fast, indoor track did to them yesterday on the Bears field which was far from dry, fast, or indoors.  

What makes you say this?  They don't take a lot of shots, their biggest pass weapon (Andre Johnson) is not a fast/stretch the field kind of guy, and the main weapon on offense (Foster) is used in a power running scheme.  Just because they play indoors, does not me they are built to be the greatest show on turf.

[DegenerateDish]

they seem to like it and are able to translate their game to last night's conditions against the choke, cough, awesome Bears, defense.

Funny how that "choke, cough, awesome Bears, defense" is in first place. Strange indeed.

[Hards Alumni]

Give me a break, you're going with yards? Come on man.

Texans 5th in NFL in PPG at 27.8.

If Packer fans can't accept that the Bears have a historically good defense, get real. What a stupid argument.

Of course, since that is what most go with.  You want to choose points?  Okay, then eliminate all of the defensive and special teams points that get score.

[ATWizJr]

Funny how that "choke, cough, awesome Bears, defense" is in first place. Strange indeed.

Stay tuned.  They have entered the meat of their schedule and tougher challenges are coming.  That's all I'm really saying.

[Hards Alumni]

Funny how that "choke, cough, awesome Bears, defense" is in first place. Strange indeed.

Except for the 49ers.

[ATWizJr]

What makes you say this?  They don't take a lot of shots, their biggest pass weapon (Andre Johnson) is not a fast/stretch the field kind of guy, and the main weapon on offense (Foster) is used in a power running scheme.  Just because they play indoors, does not me they are built to be the greatest show on turf.

Right.  GM's spend millions to build a team without taking into account how best to perform on the field where they play 50% of their games.

[hairy worthen]

You do know the Texans play on grass at Reliant Stadium, right? It's one of the worst surfaces in the league.

I do remember a lot of slipping in houston when the packers played there, but not close to last night. Also, reliant stadium was ranked 7th best of 18 grass surfaces, soldier field was ranked 17th of 18.

This packer fan does recognize how good the bears defense is, however I think bear fans are over rating their defense a bit as well and lets wait and see who is in first place when it counts.

[DegenerateDish]

Of course, since that is what most go with.  You want to choose points?  Okay, then eliminate all of the defensive and special teams points that get score.

Except for the 49ers.

Did I miss where the Bears got moved into the NFC West? Actually, wait, with yesterday's tie, the Bears would be in first in the NFC West.

So let's recap what we've learned from a few Packer fans this morning (there's a lot more intelligent Packer fans on this board I won't include here):
-Bears and 49ers are in the same division
-Bears defense sucks
-Texans changed stadium surfaces and now play on turf

-

[ATWizJr]

Funny how that "choke, cough, awesome Bears, defense" is in first place. Strange indeed.

 Wouldn't you agree that the Texans defense outplayed the Bears in the first half when Cutler was still in the game?

[Hards Alumni]

Did I miss where the Bears got moved into the NFC West? Actually, wait, with yesterday's tie, the Bears would be in first in the NFC West.

So let's recap what we've learned from a few Packer fans this morning (there's a lot more intelligent Packer fans on this board I won't include here):
-Bears and 49ers are in the same division
-Bears defense sucks
-Texans changed stadium surfaces and now play on turf

-

I'm sorry, I never saw anywhere in your statement that you were talking about the NFC North only... or even record.

[ATWizJr]

Did I miss where the Bears got moved into the NFC West? Actually, wait, with yesterday's tie, the Bears would be in first in the NFC West.

So let's recap what we've learned from a few Packer fans this morning (there's a lot more intelligent Packer fans on this board I won't include here):
-Bears and 49ers are in the same division
-Bears defense sucks
-Texans changed stadium surfaces and now play on turf

-

indoor type field.  my bad.  corrected.

[GGGG]

If Packer fans can't accept that the Bears have a historically good defense, get real. What a stupid argument.

I think the Bears have a fantastic defense.  And I wouldn't take too much from yesterday's game....sometimes you just lose.  One game isn't how you judge a team.

However, the offense still has issues.  I don't think the offensive line is all that good.  And I really think the playcalling is overly conservative.  It's really hard to win championships in today's NFL with that type of offense.  (I feel the same way about the 49ers by the way...I feel like I am watching 1980s throwback offenses.)

[DegenerateDish]

Sultan gets it right infinity percent.

Their offense was beyond poor last night. Line/play calling are major issues. While terrinle last night, if Cutler is out for a prolonged period, they're in worse trouble.

[GGGG]

Dish, there was one series in particular that I thought was poor.  Down by seven, they finally allowed Campbell to throw the ball deep to Marshall...first and goal on the ten.

Run up the middle...run up the middle....roll out to the right.  Field goal.

I mean come on.  I know he's the back up quarterback, but you don't put him in a position to succeed if you allow him to throw the ball once, and then take away half the field.  Too conservative at the wrong time.

[hairy worthen]

Sultan gets it right infinity percent.

Their offense was beyond poor last night. Line/play calling are major issues. While terrinle last night, if Cutler is out for a prolonged period, they're in worse trouble.

Fans are funny, when someone agrees with you they are correct "infinity percent" when they do not agree with you they do not know what they are talking about. I think you are knowledgeable, but your bias slants your analysis like it does all of us. When the Packers were 2 and 3 you basically said they were dead in the water now they are 6 and 3 and one game behind the bears having already beat them once.

[DegenerateDish]

Fans are funny, when someone agrees with you they are correct "infinity percent" when they do not agree with you they do not know what they are talking about. I think you are knowledgeable, but your bias slants your analysis like it does all of us. When the Packers were 2 and 3 you basically said they were dead in the water now they are 6 and 3 and one game behind the bears having already beat them once.

For the record, I was agreeing with Sultan. How someone can argue the Bears defense is no good is laughable. If a Bears fan came on here and said the Packers passing game sucked, I'd rip the guy to shreds.

At 2-3, the Packers looked dead in the water, they absolutely did. The second half of the Colts game said it all, they were flat out struggling at that point.

Packers, to their credit, have started to right the ship. I actually think the lose of Jennings helped their offense, I really do. They are now a playoff team. I said it on this board, because I believe it, Cobb is on the verge of being a superstar, I love his game. On offense, he's what Hester should have been. Hester is not even close to Cobb.

Packers have scabs with their offensive line and poor running game. Come playoff time though, there's a couple of NFC teams that play better on the road, I think both the Packers and Giants are better road teams than home teams, I firmly believe that. If the Pack don't win the division and have to go on the road, they'll be tough to deal with.

[DegenerateDish]

Dish, there was one series in particular that I thought was poor.  Down by seven, they finally allowed Campbell to throw the ball deep to Marshall...first and goal on the ten.

Run up the middle...run up the middle....roll out to the right.  Field goal.

I mean come on.  I know he's the back up quarterback, but you don't put him in a position to succeed if you allow him to throw the ball once, and then take away half the field.  Too conservative at the wrong time.

Tice's play calling around the goal line has not been his strength. A couple weeks ago (think it was Carolina), they had first and goal at the five. Pass, pass, pass.

What's really hurting Tice is his inability to be creative with Forte and Bush. Martz (having had Faulk), had ideas to use Forte effecitvely.

[ATWizJr]

For the record, I was agreeing with Sultan. How someone can argue the Bears defense is no good is laughable. If a Bears fan came on here and said the Packers passing game sucked, I'd rip the guy to shreds.

At 2-3, the Packers looked dead in the water, they absolutely did. The second half of the Colts game said it all, they were flat out struggling at that point.

Packers, to their credit, have started to right the ship. I actually think the lose of Jennings helped their offense, I really do. They are now a playoff team. I said it on this board, because I believe it, Cobb is on the verge of being a superstar, I love his game. On offense, he's what Hester should have been. Hester is not even close to Cobb.

Packers have scabs with their offensive line and poor running game. Come playoff time though, there's a couple of NFC teams that play better on the road, I think both the Packers and Giants are better road teams than home teams, I firmly believe that. If the Pack don't win the division and have to go on the road, they'll be tough to deal with.

 They always were a playoff team and if not for ref gate would be sitting atop the NFC North where they will soon reside.

[jmayer1]

Funny how that "choke, cough, awesome Bears, defense" is in first place. Strange indeed.

The Packers still control their own destiny in the division as well though

The Bears defense is really, really good. Possible historically good depending on how the rest of the season goes.

I still think the Bears offense will never be much better than mediocre, despite the presence of a really good wr and a pretty good rb, as long as Cutler plays at this level, which is only average at best (in terms of NFL starters).

That was 2 pretty good, pretty similar teams last night. It's always tough to take too much away from one game, especially in those conditions, although GB did beat both quite handily  

[jmayer1]

For the record, I was agreeing with Sultan. How someone can argue the Bears defense is no good is laughable. If a Bears fan came on here and said the Packers passing game sucked, I'd rip the guy to shreds.

At 2-3, the Packers looked dead in the water, they absolutely did. The second half of the Colts game said it all, they were flat out struggling at that point.

Packers, to their credit, have started to right the ship. I actually think the lose of Jennings helped their offense, I really do. They are now a playoff team. I said it on this board, because I believe it, Cobb is on the verge of being a superstar, I love his game. On offense, he's what Hester should have been. Hester is not even close to Cobb.

Packers have scabs with their offensive line and poor running game. Come playoff time though, there's a couple of NFC teams that play better on the road, I think both the Packers and Giants are better road teams than home teams, I firmly believe that. If the Pack don't win the division and have to go on the road, they'll be tough to deal with.

You and Sultan were both wrong at the time, stating you didn't believe the Pack would right the ship. When you have Rodgers and some of the other people they have, there is just too much talent for that team not to make the playoffs. Packers fans had also seen that same story before in 2010, and we all know the results of that season. The Packers still have a lot of issues, including a ton of injuries, but those predicting doom and gloom when GB was 2-3 were a little quick to pull the trigger. Of course, there is a lot of season left and I could be eating this post for lunch in 8 weeks, but that's why we watch.

[GGGG]

 They always were a playoff team and if not for ref gate would be sitting atop the NFC North where they will soon reside.

I'm glad you can be this confident, because I still am not exactly sure about the Packers.  

[ATWizJr]

I'm glad you can be this confident, because I still am not exactly sure about the Packers.  

  I am.  We'll see.

[GGGG]

You and Sultan were both wrong at the time, stating you didn't believe the Pack would right the ship.

I never said that.

[hairy worthen]

For the record, I was agreeing with Sultan. How someone can argue the Bears defense is no good is laughable. If a Bears fan came on here and said the Packers passing game sucked, I'd rip the guy to shreds.

At 2-3, the Packers looked dead in the water, they absolutely did. The second half of the Colts game said it all, they were flat out struggling at that point.

Packers, to their credit, have started to right the ship. I actually think the lose of Jennings helped their offense, I really do. They are now a playoff team. I said it on this board, because I believe it, Cobb is on the verge of being a superstar, I love his game. On offense, he's what Hester should have been. Hester is not even close to Cobb.

Packers have scabs with their offensive line and poor running game. Come playoff time though, there's a couple of NFC teams that play better on the road, I think both the Packers and Giants are better road teams than home teams, I firmly believe that. If the Pack don't win the division and have to go on the road, they'll be tough to deal with.

 For the record, I am one who thinks the Bear defense is good; I do not think they are the second coming of the 85 bears like some do.

I agree with most of what you say above. The Packer offensive line is better than you think. Sitton and Bulaga are above average to near pro bowl players, Saturday and Lang are serviceable and Newhouse is still improving.  The packers run game would be better if they committed to it, but that is not McCarthy’s philosophy. Run attempts are as important as run yards in their mind. They would rather use a short passing game to serve as their run game.  Lack of running game has been a criticism of Packer teams under the west coast offense for years; it is not what they do especially under McCarthy.
The Bears are formidable especially the defense. I think the number of turnovers they get will come back to the mean and they will lose some games against better competition.  I cannot see a Cutler led team winning the super bowl.  

As far as your bias, how can someone with Ditka for an avatar be unbiased?

[Hards Alumni]

For the record, I am one who thinks the Bear defense is good; I do not think they are the second coming of the 85 bears like some do.

I agree with most of what you say above. The Packer offensive line is better than you think. Sitton and Bulaga are above average to near pro bowl players, Saturday and Lang are serviceable and Newhouse is still improving.  The packers run game would be better if they committed to it, but that is not McCarthy’s philosophy. Run attempts are as important as run yards in their mind. They would rather use a short passing game to serve as their run game.  Lack of running game has been a criticism of Packer teams under the west coast offense for years; it is not what they do especially under McCarthy.
The Bears are formidable especially the defense. I think the number of turnovers they get will come back to the mean and they will lose some games against better competition.  I cannot see a Cutler led team winning the super bowl.  

As far as your bias, how can someone with Ditka for an avatar be unbiased?

I agree with this.  I don't think I ever said the Bears defense wasn't good.  It is easily a top 5 defense. 

Though, I don't subscribe to the opinion that Bulaga is any good.  He is average at best.  The line is below average.  They can pass block alright, but they can't run block at all.