2012 NFC North/NFL Thread

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Vikes win in the ugliest game I have seen since 1988.

Gross all around.

Ponder just isn't good. I don' know why. I'll put part of the blame on the receivers because no QB can be that bad on his own.

I'm honestly at a loss. I'd like to say that with better protection and better receivers, he could be serviceable, but I'm just not seeing it.

[DegenerateDish]

A few thoughts...

It's my opinion that unless a miracle happens, the Lovie era is coming to an end. Looking at the last two weeks, a few plays stand out.

-Bennett's TD drop (Angelo giving Bennett a very generous contract extension last season)
-4th & 1 decision to go for it vs Seattle, and poor execution (on Lovie/offense)
-Cutler's awful mechanics on 3rd & 1 yesterday, threw flatfooted. Play call was just as bad as his mechanics.
-Same play (3rd & 1), having Allen in the backfield instead of Bush (I know he was hurt) or Forte. If you're going to throw there, no play action threat at all, none.
-Hester's TD drop ("He's a #1 receiver", per Lovie).

As bad as the Bears offensive line has been (not just this year), only one of those plays (4th & 1), had little bearing on the play of the offensive line. Buck stops with Lovie, and I believe his time is coming to an end.

[RJax55]

A few thoughts...

It's my opinion that unless a miracle happens, the Lovie era is coming to an end.

Nine years is a good run, but I agree with you, looks like his time is coming to an end. I think the Bears need to win 2 of the next 3 to make the playoffs. Any loses would be extremely problematic for Lovie.

Lose to GB: It would represent the 6th straight defeat to the Packers and allow the Packers to clinch the North. For a coach that talked about beating the Pack as his number one priority, that clearly has disappeared.

Lose to Arizona: This would be almost unthinkable as the Cards are right now the worst team in the NFL.

Lose to the Lions: Say the Bears beat the Cards, it could lead to a similar set-up to the ending of the 2008 season (against the Texans) of win and you're in. However, lose, and it would be the second time in the Lovie era where the Bears would have lost a playoff clincher on the last day of the season to a non-playoff team.

[MerrittsMustache]

A few thoughts...

It's my opinion that unless a miracle happens, the Lovie era is coming to an end. Looking at the last two weeks, a few plays stand out.

-Bennett's TD drop (Angelo giving Bennett a very generous contract extension last season)
-4th & 1 decision to go for it vs Seattle, and poor execution (on Lovie/offense)
-Cutler's awful mechanics on 3rd & 1 yesterday, threw flatfooted. Play call was just as bad as his mechanics.
-Same play (3rd & 1), having Allen in the backfield instead of Bush (I know he was hurt) or Forte. If you're going to throw there, no play action threat at all, none.
-Hester's TD drop ("He's a #1 receiver", per Lovie).

As bad as the Bears offensive line has been (not just this year), only one of those plays (4th & 1), had little bearing on the play of the offensive line. Buck stops with Lovie, and I believe his time is coming to an end.

Lovie also takes a big part of the blame for having 4 different offensive coordinators in 9 seasons...and it's not like the guys who left were leaving for bigger, better things.

This might be an ideal scenario for Phil Emery. He can bring in his guy as head coach but still has some pretty good pieces already in place from the current regime.

Who knows though? Maybe the Bears will win out and win the Super Bowl! 

[MU B2002]

A few thoughts...

It's my opinion that unless a miracle happens, the Lovie era is coming to an end. Looking at the last two weeks, a few plays stand out.

-Bennett's TD drop (Angelo giving Bennett a very generous contract extension last season)
-4th & 1 decision to go for it vs Seattle, and poor execution (on Lovie/offense)
-Cutler's awful mechanics on 3rd & 1 yesterday, threw flatfooted. Play call was just as bad as his mechanics.
-Same play (3rd & 1), having Allen in the backfield instead of Bush (I know he was hurt) or Forte. If you're going to throw there, no play action threat at all, none.
-Hester's TD drop ("He's a #1 receiver", per Lovie).

As bad as the Bears offensive line has been (not just this year), only one of those plays (4th & 1), had little bearing on the play of the offensive line. Buck stops with Lovie, and I believe his time is coming to an end.

-Jeffry(sic) had a pretty nice drop in the 4th quarter as well yesterday.  That may have changed this discussion had he held on.

[RJax55]

Lovie also takes a big part of the blame for having 4 different offensive coordinators in 9 seasons...and it's not like the guys who left were leaving for bigger, better things.

Good point, I have no idea what Terry Shea and Ron Turner are currently up to. And sadly, in my 20+ years of being a Bears fan, the trio of Cutler, Forte and Marshall are the best skill position players they have had at each respective position and the offense still stinks.

Time for a new direction.

[jesmu84]

Good point, I have no idea what Terry Shea and Ron Turner are currently up to. And sadly, in my 20+ years of being a Bears fan, the trio of Cutler, Forte and Marshall are the best skill position players they have had at each respective position and the offense still stinks.

Time for a new direction.

Everybody in the world knows that the Bears offense is basically pitch-and-catch between Cutler and Marshall. Defense are game-planning for it. And yet, Marshall is still putting up ridiculous numbers. Imagine if the offense was somewhat creative and had at least a couple of other decent weapons (TE being the most needed)?? Forcing a defense to not blanket Marshall would allow the Bears to actually score some points.

Edit: Just saw Cam Cameron was fired by the Ravens. Any chance the McCaskeys pick up the phone?

[DegenerateDish]

The football fan in me is really excited for the NFC playoffs. My bad in a previous post, I forgot the Giants lost to the Redskins, and the Packers are really in a prime spot to grab the 2 seed. Can't recall a year I've ever seen where every team that will make the tournament will want to play the 1 seed (Falcons). Which is even funnier because seeds 2-6 right now are in a ton of flux.

If the Niners lose at New England on Sunday, the Seahawks actually control their destiny for the NFC West title (which is amazing to me). Redskins (I realize the Cowboys too) can still win the NFC East. You could have the Niners/Giants wind up as your 5/6 seeds.

[hairy worthen]

The football fan in me is really excited for the NFC playoffs. My bad in a previous post, I forgot the Giants lost to the Redskins, and the Packers are really in a prime spot to grab the 2 seed. Can't recall a year I've ever seen where every team that will make the tournament will want to play the 1 seed (Falcons). Which is even funnier because seeds 2-6 right now are in a ton of flux.

If the Niners lose at New England on Sunday, the Seahawks actually control their destiny for the NFC West title (which is amazing to me). Redskins (I realize the Cowboys too) can still win the NFC East. You could have the Niners/Giants wind up as your 5/6 seeds.

Should be fun.  I do not think the Giants could be the 5 or 6 seed or at least it would be very unlikely. They will need to win the division or they would be out. They have some tough games coming up at Atlanta and at Baltimore. They could miss the playoffs.

 I predict Atlanta 1 seed, San Fran 2 seed, Green Bay 3 seed Redskins 4 seed Seattle 5 seed and Bears 6 seed.  Which means a Packers v Bears wild card game at Lambeau.

[Sir Lawrence]

[RushmoreAcademy]

Lose to the Lions: Say the Bears beat the Cards, it could lead to a similar set-up to the ending of the 2008 season (against the Texans) of win and you're in.

It wasn't really win and in. A bunch of stuff needed to go their way, and it just happened to.  Not excusing the Bears in any way though. That was one of the most disappointing loses in recent memory.

I think Lovie had a good run, but I am agreeing with much of what is said. Two biggest things I blame on Lovie from recent memory:
1. The revolving door of coordinators, none of which have gotten the job done, esp on offense.  That is on him.
2. Hester as a receiver. It has been a disaster since day 1.  I know they paid him and needed to justify the payday, but he never let up and it's been tough to watch.

[MerrittsMustache]

It wasn't really win and in. A bunch of stuff needed to go their way, and it just happened to.  Not excusing the Bears in any way though. That was one of the most disappointing loses in recent memory.

I think Lovie had a good run, but I am agreeing with much of what is said. Two biggest things I blame on Lovie from recent memory:
1. The revolving door of coordinators, none of which have gotten the job done, esp on offense.  That is on him.
2. Hester as a receiver. It has been a disaster since day 1.  I know they paid him and needed to justify the payday, but he never let up and it's been tough to watch.

Those two points are connected. The Bears had an potentially dangerous offensive threat in Hester but never found a coordinator who knew how to use him. Lining him up a WR (he played cornerback in college and as a rookie) and assuming he'd become a #1 was doomed from the start. On top of that, it clearly had a negative effect on his return game. With some creativity, he could have become a Darren Sproles-type of mismatch - sometimes out of the out of the backfield (though with few actual rushes), sometimes lined-up in the slot, sometimes lined up wide.

[Sir Lawrence]

Those two points are connected. The Bears had an potentially dangerous offensive threat in Hester but never found a coordinator who knew how to use him. Lining him up a WR (he played cornerback in college and as a rookie) and assuming he'd become a #1 was doomed from the start. On top of that, it clearly had a negative effect on his return game. With some creativity, he could have become a Darren Sproles-type of mismatch - sometimes out of the out of the backfield (though with few actual rushes), sometimes lined-up in the slot, sometimes lined up wide.

Like the Packers use Cobb?

[🏀]

Those two points are connected. The Bears had an potentially dangerous offensive threat in Hester but never found a coordinator who knew how to use him. Lining him up a WR (he played cornerback in college and as a rookie) and assuming he'd become a #1 was doomed from the start. On top of that, it clearly had a negative effect on his return game. With some creativity, he could have become a Darren Sproles-type of mismatch - sometimes out of the out of the backfield (though with few actual rushes), sometimes lined-up in the slot, sometimes lined up wide.

Wasn't the knock on Hester not being able to learn routes? I think his play-learning capabilities hampered his development into a Sproles/Cobb like player.

[Hards Alumni]

Wasn't the knock on Hester not being able to learn routes? I think his play-learning capabilities hampered his development into a Sproles/Cobb like player.

Well, that and the dude has brick hands.

[hairy worthen]

Like the Packers use Cobb?

The Packers use Cobb that way, but Cobb is a much better receiver now than Hester will ever be. He has stepped up this year to be the go to guy as receiver. All the other stuff he does is on top of that.

 I do not see cobb as a sproules type. He is first and foremost a reciever that can can give you other dimensions as well.

[🏀]

Well, that and the dude has brick hands.

[Hards Alumni]

The Packers use Cobb that way, but Cobb is a much better receiver now than Hester will ever be. He has stepped up this year to be the go to guy as receiver. All the other stuff he does is on top of that.

 I do not see cobb as a sproules type. He is first and foremost a reciever that can can give you other dimensions as well.

Agreed, Percy Harvin and Randall Cobb are totally comparable players.  Harvin is just 'injured' all the time.

[JWags85]

The Packers use Cobb that way, but Cobb is a much better receiver now than Hester will ever be. He has stepped up this year to be the go to guy as receiver. All the other stuff he does is on top of that.

 I do not see cobb as a sproules type. He is first and foremost a reciever that can can give you other dimensions as well.

I don't disagree.  Cobb was also a WR in college.  He did almost everything else for UK, but was a WR first and foremost.  The Bears tried to force Hester into become a WR as a way to utilize him more.

Hester's two main talents have always been his speed/quickness and his natural ability and instinct to find and hit an opening.  The way they used him as a receiver negated most of the latter, which was his unique skill, as there are plenty of guys who can fly.  If he can't even be counted on to catch passes when he gets open on post routes, well, then his speed is worthless.  Catching swing passes and screens would have been a great way to try and use him effectively, but nope, he was going to be a #1.  Sigh...

[MerrittsMustache]

Whether you want to compare Hester to Cobb, Harvin, Sproles or someone else, that fact remains that other teams have been able to find a role for play-makers even if it's not as a traditional WR or RB. The Bears failed to do that with Hester.

Yes, he did have some trouble learning the playbook but that's in large part because they called him a #1 receiver and threw the whole playbook at him. The joke was that the Bears made a mistake when they released Musin Muhammed because that meant they needed a new WR to tell Hester where to line up on every play. If the OC had drawn up just 12-15 plays for Hester to learn - whether as the primary option or as a decoy - and gone with just that, it would have (IMO) turned out much better.

A similar example was Mark Anderson. As a rookie, he played primarily in passing situations and had 12 sacks. After that, they tried to make him an every down DE and his production dropped and eventually they released him. Last season, he signed with New England (who knows that they're doing) as a pass rush specialist and registered 10 sacks. This season, he plays with Buffalo who tried to make him an every down DE and, when healthy, he's been a non-factor.

[DegenerateDish]

That was the worst idea I've ever seen. McCarthy, WTF was that? Can't believe it, my god.

[DegenerateDish]

This will not go down as a well coached game. Still stunned by that, thought Pack staff was better than that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually, he cheers for just about everyone and is known for it here in So. Cal.  He's a USC grad, big Kings, Angels, Lakers, Cubs, Packers, etc, etc, etc, etc, fan.

[DegenerateDish]

Bears deserved to lose anyway, but what a terrible officiating job, disgraceful.

[hairy worthen]

Bears deserved to lose anyway, but what a terrible officiating job, disgraceful.

Bad calls both ways. The penalties on Jeffery's were correct. The missed facemask on the long pass was pathetic