2012 NFC North/NFL Thread

[muarmy81]

I've been mentioning this problem for the past few years to friends. Darryl Drake has been on the Bears' staff as the WR coach for 9 years. Somehow, he's survived every change at OC (I think I heard once that he's close with Lovie and that's the reason he's still there). And in that time? Basically no significant development of any WR or TE. We all saw how the Hester-as-a-#1-WR project turned out. I'm scared for the development of Jeffrey (who seems to have all the physical tools) if Drake remains.

I can't remember specifics, but during Martz's tenure, one of the younger WRs (maybe Bennett), mentioned that Martz taught them where to run (deep to shallow, etc) when a play breaks down/QB is scrambling...wtf?! How does a WR coach not know the basics of his position???!

As a bears fan I have to say it's time for Lovie to go...along with much of his staff, like Drake.  Even if they make the playoffs, they need to pursue an offensive - minded coach like Gruden or Sean Payton (I can dream...).  They need to step up and make a change on that side of the ball and while we're at it, get rid of the Tampa 2.  I think the only way the Tampa 2 goes is if Lovie goes.

[GGGG]

When does the blame start falling on Cutler instead of everything else.  I heard Martz was the problem last year because he didn’t run a system that fit the makeup of the team, so they get a new oc.

Yeah...Mike Tice. 

[hairy worthen]

Yeah...Mike Tice. 

That play calling for the bears was brutal yesterday. One series it was run into the line 0 yards, run into the line 1 yard, screen pass 2 yards, punt.  or the goal line stand by the packers, lot of originality in that offensive series by the bears.

[jesmu84]

As a bears fan I have to say it's time for Lovie to go...along with much of his staff, like Drake.  Even if they make the playoffs, they need to pursue an offensive - minded coach like Gruden or Sean Payton (I can dream...).  They need to step up and make a change on that side of the ball and while we're at it, get rid of the Tampa 2.  I think the only way the Tampa 2 goes is if Lovie goes.

Doubt Payton would come to Chicago. And I don't think Gruden is going to coach for a while.

I'm not sure about head coach, but I'd love to see Norv Turner or Cam Cameron on the Bears' sideline as an OC.

[jmayer1]

I've always thought Cutler was an average to slightly above average NFL starting QB. Nothing he has done this year would make me change my mind. He just isn't that good.

[Lennys Tap]

I've always thought Cutler was an average to slightly above average NFL starting QB. Nothing he has done this year would make me change my mind. He just isn't that good.

Way too much volatility to Cutler's game. For every time he makes a jaw droppin', not many could have done that kind of play he makes two head scratchin', how does an NFL quarterback do that kind of play. He dangerous, but too often to his own team.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Actually, he cheers for just about everyone and is known for it here in So. Cal.  He's a USC grad, big Kings, Angels, Lakers, Cubs, Packers, etc, etc, etc, etc, fan.










John C Reilly - My wife saw him with his family this past summer at JFK Airport passing through the security line.  His kids were all wearing the same Panama Jack Hat as John.

[DegenerateDish]

Wanted to say this too...

If I had a vote, Rodgers is my league MVP. AP's having a remarkable year (I'd vote him OPY), and I really respect the year Manning has had, and I'd have him right behind Rodgers.

With little running game to speak of, losing arguably his best receiver (still my belief Cobb is their best), losing Nelson for a long time, getting not much production from Finley, and being sacked more than any other QB, Rodgers has had an outstanding year. He throws such a remarkably accurate ball, I love watching him play quarterback. When the team was starting to get questioned in the media after a rough start, he went out and had an "eff you" game against Houston. He's my MVP.

[🏀]

[jmayer1]

Wanted to say this too...

If I had a vote, Rodgers is my league MVP. AP's having a remarkable year (I'd vote him OPY), and I really respect the year Manning has had, and I'd have him right behind Rodgers.

With little running game to speak of, losing arguably his best receiver (still my belief Cobb is their best), losing Nelson for a long time, getting not much production from Finley, and being sacked more than any other QB, Rodgers has had an outstanding year. He throws such a remarkably accurate ball, I love watching him play quarterback. When the team was starting to get questioned in the media after a rough start, he went out and had an "eff you" game against Houston. He's my MVP.

It's tough this year, no clear MVP choice in my mind. I'd put Brady into that mix as well, maybe even RG3 if he can come back and lead his team to the playoffs--although he will get docked a bit for missing (at least) one game and some people won't vote for a rookie (stupid). Ryan could garner a few votes if they end up with only 1 loss, but realistically he doesn't (and shouldn't) have a chance to win.

Of course I'm a biased Packers fan so I'd probably vote for Arod, although he has been just a bit off this year compared to his utterly remarkable performance last year.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

QB is inherently the most valuable position, so for a non-QB to win it is pretty tough.

AP might be having the most dominate season ever for a RB, but probably won't win the MVP.

However, that dude is almost single-handedly leading a below average team to the playoffs.

[MerrittsMustache]

"Starting defense! Place at the table! Wooo!"

[DegenerateDish]

QB is inherently the most valuable position, so for a non-QB to win it is pretty tough.

AP might be having the most dominate season ever for a RB, but probably won't win the MVP.

However, that dude is almost single-handedly leading a below average team to the playoffs.

To me, there's no question he is the Offensive Player of the Year. Guy is just a monster, just incredible he's doing this off an ACL tear less than a year ago, remarkable.

When you look at the NFC North, you have the best QB (and overall player) in Rodgers, best RB in AP, best WR in Megatron.

[hairy worthen]

To me, there's no question he is the Offensive Player of the Year. Guy is just a monster, just incredible he's doing this off an ACL tear less than a year ago, remarkable.

When you look at the NFC North, you have the best QB (and overall player) in Rodgers, best RB in AP, best WR in Megatron.

Throw in finley as best tight end... Well only in his own mind.

[MUBurrow]

To me, there's no question he is the Offensive Player of the Year. Guy is just a monster, just incredible he's doing this off an ACL tear less than a year ago, remarkable.

With the pass heavy trends in the NFL, its also really easy to always want to point to the system for successful RBs. And generally there is probably some truth to that as defensive players have comparably caught up to offensive players over the past 10-15 years. Guys like Jerry Rice and Tim Brown, while useful pieces, could never see that kind of success in todays game. You have to be a physical beast to compete with 280 lb DEs running 4.5s.  I think a guy like Arian Foster, while very good, benefits greatly from his system.  Guys like Forsett and Tate get plugged in and the running game keeps on ticking. 

But AP is from a different planet.  When you watch him, its not unusual for two different defenders to get a hand on him behind the line.  The Vikings line as a unit gets mediocre push, but they dont notably move the line of scrimmage.  If I had a vote, I'd probably make him the MVP. If he doesn't win it, a non QB offensive player won't win it for at least 10 years - until the next league-wide shift in offensive philosophy brought by player evolution, coach innovation, rule changes or something else.

[GGGG]

The best running back I have ever seen that matched speed with agility with power was Bo Jackson.  Adrian Peterson is better than Bo Jackson was.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

With the pass heavy trends in the NFL, its also really easy to always want to point to the system for successful RBs. And generally there is probably some truth to that as defensive players have comparably caught up to offensive players over the past 10-15 years. Guys like Jerry Rice and Tim Brown, while useful pieces, could never see that kind of success in todays game. You have to be a physical beast to compete with 280 lb DEs running 4.5s.  I think a guy like Arian Foster, while very good, benefits greatly from his system.  Guys like Forsett and Tate get plugged in and the running game keeps on ticking. 

But AP is from a different planet.  When you watch him, its not unusual for two different defenders to get a hand on him behind the line.  The Vikings line as a unit gets mediocre push, but they dont notably move the line of scrimmage.  If I had a vote, I'd probably make him the MVP. If he doesn't win it, a non QB offensive player won't win it for at least 10 years - until the next league-wide shift in offensive philosophy brought by player evolution, coach innovation, rule changes or something else.

Agree with all of this. The game is just designed now for QBs and then everybody else.

If AP has 2 more big games and the Vikes make it to the playoffs, you might see him win, simply because it will be a historic season.

[MerrittsMustache]

To me, there's no question he is the Offensive Player of the Year. Guy is just a monster, just incredible he's doing this off an ACL tear less than a year ago, remarkable.

When you look at the NFC North, you have the best QB (and overall player) in Rodgers, best RB in AP, best WR in Megatron.

If using the literal criteria of most valuable player, before the team's late-season collapse, a case could have been made for Brandon Marshall being the NFL MVP. Obviously the odds of a WR being selected MVP are only slightly better than an offensive tackle being named MVP, but as bad as the Bears' offense has been, think of where they'd be without him. Now, I don't actually think Marshall is/was the MVP but he earned some votes.

As for the MVP now, a vote for anyone besides Peterson is just plain wrong. Peyton Manning #2, RG3 #3.

[Scooter22]

How is Mason Crosby still the kicker on the Packers?  17/29 is pitiful, even if 8 of the misses are beyond 50 yards.  My only answer is...  in the 8-1 streak, he has missed plenty of kicks, but none of them has cost the Packers a game (38-10 can't be blamed on Crosby).  But, how long can the Packers dodge the bullet?  One missed kick in a playoff game could result in a long off-season for McCarthy.

[Blackhat]

TT will probably extend him.

[wadesworld]

TT will probably extend him.

Without a doubt. Because it's Ted's call to keep him. You realize McCarthy is the one who makes the call to continue to use Crosby as his kicker, yet you sing McCarthy's praises as if he's God's gift to football and single handedly made Aaron Rodgers, Clay Matthews, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, etc. the players they are today, yet you blame Ted for extending Crosby and give him absolutely no credit for drafting the above mentioned (besides Jennings) players. It's silly.

P.S. Your second biggest complaint behind our kicker (which is a pretty good situation to be in if your kicker is the biggest problem...), the defense that Ted Thompson "fails to address" is a very respectable 12th in yards given up per play in the NFL and 8th (1 total point behind the Steelers for 7th) in points per game given up. Far from the travesty you try to make it out to be. Looks like he certainly addressed the issue this year, as it went from dead last in yards per play to 12th...a 20 team jump. Not sure what they were in points given up per game last year, but my guess is it wasn't 8th (or better). This is all without arguably the most dominant defensive player in the NFL for 1/4 of the season and without the defensive leader for 1/2 od the season. And the defense is incredibly young and only going to get better. But yeah, Ted never addresses the team's weaknesses...

You're clueless when it comes to football, kid.

[Blackhat]

I don't expect you to be balanced and actually criticize TT but you've misconstrued my portrayal of TT.  I have given him credit for his drafting it's been above average to very good while at GB.  I think he's got a talent for it.

 I've said he has been atrocious in utilization of free agency, and contract decisions (besides the no brainers) the past half decade.  

Our defense has fallen back and TT did some mending after it blew up on him (which he had a hand in: jenkins for crosby etc.) causing him to use a whole draft on defense.  That's a failure.  

Yes I think McCarthy is a great coach as he has coached up Rodgers and the O (heck even coached up Matt Flynn) to elite level.   We need to capitalize on that but the way our D absolutely blew up since '11 SB and SF has improved in D and O it's gonna be tough.

[GGGG]

I don't expect you to be balanced and actually criticize TT but you've misconstrued my portrayal of TT.  I have given him credit for his drafting it's been above average to very good while at GB.  I think he's got a talent for it.

 I've said he has been atrocious in utilization of free agency, and contract decisions (besides the no brainers) the past half decade.   

Our defense has fallen back and TT did some mending after it blew up on him (which he had a hand in: jenkins for crosby etc.) causing him to use a whole draft on defense.  That's a failure. 

Yes I think McCarthy is a great coach as he has coached up Rodgers and the O (heck even coached up Matt Flynn) to elite level.   We need to capitalize on that but the way our D absolutely blew up since '11 SB and SF has improved in D and O it's gonna be tough.

I can't blame TT for Nick Collins' injury.  In '10 they had one of the best ball-hawking secondaries in the league, and it lost one of the best safeties in the game.  That was huge. 

Signing Cullen Jenkins would have been a waste...he has done nothing substantial for the Eagles. 

And again, you are talking about a team that went 15-1 and lost in the playoffs to the eventual champions.

[hairy worthen]

I don't expect you to be balanced and actually criticize TT but you've misconstrued my portrayal of TT.  I have given him credit for his drafting it's been above average to very good while at GB.  I think he's got a talent for it.

 I've said he has been atrocious in utilization of free agency, and contract decisions (besides the no brainers) the past half decade.  

Our defense has fallen back and TT did some mending after it blew up on him (which he had a hand in: jenkins for crosby etc.) causing him to use a whole draft on defense.  That's a failure.  

Yes I think McCarthy is a great coach as he has coached up Rodgers and the O (heck even coached up Matt Flynn) to elite level.   We need to capitalize on that but the way our D absolutely blew up since '11 SB and SF has improved in D and O it's gonna be tough.

TT has a philosophy and a system and he stays true to it. Sometimes sticking with the system is more important than the system itself. How can you even begin to argue with the results?  How would you like to be in the bears situation right now or the lions.

As a general rule, the packers will not throw huge money on high profile free agents. They generally do not like to sign guys over 30 especially with history of injury. (IE.  Jenkins).   They will not draft a running back in the first round or probably not a guard either. They develop from within and it has been successful. There are not many teams with a better record than the Packers since TT took over. Yes MM develops the players, but who hired MM and who got him the players to develop.
 
The TT criticism is difficult to understand. Does he miss on a few moves? Hell yes but show me a GM who doesn’t.  At the end of the day, the packer organization is stable, successful and a model for the NFL.

[Hards Alumni]

TT has a philosophy and a system and he stays true to it. Sometimes sticking with the system is more important than the system itself. How can you even begin to argue with the results?  How would you like to be in the bears situation right now or the lions.

As a general rule, the packers will not throw huge money on high profile free agents. They generally do not like to sign guys over 30 especially with history of injury. (IE.  Jenkins).   They will not draft a running back in the first round or probably not a guard either. They develop from within and it has been successful. There are not many teams with a better record than the Packers since TT took over. Yes MM develops the players, but who hired MM and who got him the players to develop.
 
The TT criticism is difficult to understand. Does he miss on a few moves? Hell yes but show me a GM who doesn’t.  At the end of the day, the packer organization is stable, successful and a model for the NFL.

Usually the people who criticize TT are the ones that are Brett Favre widows who still hold a grudge.