Philly going to get hit with tampering charges and not allowed to sign PJ?
Knicks going to get hit with tampering charges and not allowed to sign Brunson? I mean, they had representatives sitting courtside at Mavs Playoff games...
Are the Spurs tanking with the goal of getting Webanyama?
Nah, only da Bucks get poked, hey?
Durant requests trade.
Overrated asset. The only way he has ever won a title was joining a team that was good enough to win without him.
The same will be true in the future.
Durant is not overrated.
Bucks signing Joe Ingles and getting fan-favorite Bobby for another 4 years.
Hmmmm. What happened to Ingles? He used to be pretty decent.
Hmmmm. What happened to Ingles? He used to be pretty decent.
jevon carter and wesley returning as well. anyone know what the joe ingles attraction is? where does he fit in?
No kidding.
Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Allen Iverson, Steve Nash, Reggie Miller, Patrick Ewing, John Stockton, etc. were all still great players. KD having only won his rings with a dynasty doesn't make him overrated.
Overrated for the way he is talked about. He is not gonna win a title without an Alpha on the team. He ain’t it.
Overrated for the way he is talked about. He is not gonna win a title without an Alpha on the team. He ain’t it.
Jockey, I'm a Curry guy, but "overrated" is honestly insane. He's still easily in the top 20 players ever and probably top 15.
Muggsy, I freely admit Durant is one of the top 3 most skilled players in the world.
He is not one of the 3 best. He cannot lead a team to a championship.
He was arguably the alpha on the two GSW championships he was on.
Ingles is a career 40% 3pt shooter. What are the odds Grayson Allen gets his head out of his ass?
I’m not overly worried about Grayson. If Middleton stays healthy, Grayson doesn’t have to do anything but catch and shoot open 3s, attack a closeout once a half, and guard the worst perimeter player for 25 mpg.
He was arguably the alpha on the two GSW championships he was on.
Draymond was the Alpha. Curry was the driver of the car.
So Durant is overrated but Draymond isn't? Oh.....okay.
And KD was the best player.
KD was the best quitter. He has quit everywhere. He just signed a new deal with the Nets 10 Months ago and is now quitting on them. He will never win a title without Curry.
It's also a bit odd that the 'best player in the world' has only won 1 MVP. THREE different guys have won multiple MVPs since Durant won his only one.
KD was the best quitter. He has quit everywhere. He just signed a new deal with the Nets 10 Months ago and is now quitting on them. He will never win a title without Curry.
It's also a bit odd that the 'best player in the world' has only won 1 MVP. THREE different guys have won multiple MVPs since Durant won his only one.
If the Nets can get Ayton, Bridges, and Cam Johnson for Durant would you' make that deal?
Where has he quit? Free agents leaving for a new team when their contract is up is “quitting?”
So you’re of the belief that Harden and Russ were the best player in the world the years they won MVP? That Jokic has been the best player in the world the last 2 years? That LBJ has only been the best player in the world for 4 years of his life?
His legacy is tarnished for sure. But that does not mean he's overrated.
He signed a 4 year deal with the Nets less than a year ago and now he is quitting on them.
It amazed me how you defend Durant always, but constantly have attacked a far superior player (Lebron) over the years.
Finally, yes, the greatest players win multiple MVPs. Very good players can win one.
You said he quit "everywhere" and then proceeded to list one place. He didn't quit on OKC and he didn't quit on GSW.
You said he quit "everywhere" and then proceeded to list one place. He didn't quit on OKC and he didn't quit on GSW.
He also opted out on GS (where Curry still got the most attention). Semantics? Yes, but he still left a team where he could have won more championships.
I don't believe he will ever win a title again even though he always chooses where he wants to play. He's not gonna find another Curry to carry a team to a title. Or a team where the two best players (Curry, Klay) willingly sacrificed their own stats to win.
He will always score because he shoots more than almost everyone in the league - I believe he was 4th this year in most shots per game.
I still don't think I am demeaning him. I have said he is one of the 3 most highly skilled players in the world. But he is no Giannis.
Where has he quit? Free agents leaving for a new team when their contract is up is “quitting?”
So you’re of the belief that Harden and Russ were the best player in the world the years they won MVP? That Jokic has been the best player in the world the last 2 years? That LBJ has only been the best player in the world for 4 years of his life?
There are people here who think he is top 10 all-time. That is overrated.
The Wolves are now the answer to "What sports franchise made the worst trade in history"
Unbelievable.
The Celtics got Brogdon and Gallinari for basically nothing? WTF? The Bucks may have to make one more move.
Wow.....incredible trade. It better work or they won't be good for like a decade.
Gobert and Towns paired together to be the softest front court in NBA history
I've reached out and extended my congrats to the Looney family. Hope I didn't piss off Hards by doing so. As for 82, its probably better to leave a sleeping dog lie, hey?
There are people here who think he is top 10 all-time. That is overrated.
His legacy is tarnished for sure. But that does not mean he's overrated.
No. It is not.
I understand your point. I think Steph is now a borderline top 10. I rate him a bit ahead of Durant.
And Giannis is a better player than Durant. He is now and if he remains healthy, he will be historically.
Double Dribble,
My guess is 82 is in a long overdue vacation from scoop. He should have been blocked a long time ago.
No. It is not.
Trying to come up with an argument for Durant being top 10 all time.and drawing blanks..
25th career win shares
22nd career playoff win shares
14th career win shares per 48
16th career playoff win shares per 48
15th career VORP
9th career playoff VORP
Top 3 players in similarity score: Garnett, Barkley, Erving.
1 MVP (15 players have 2+)
2 rings on stacked teams.
Great player and obvious first-ballot HOF. Great case for top 20. Not so much top 10.
I understand your point. I think Steph is now a borderline top 10. I rate him a bit ahead of Durant.
And Giannis is a better player than Durant. He is now and if he remains healthy, he will be historically.
Can you name 20 better players or are you just going to look at win share stats? I would say he has more than "a case" for being top 20.
1. Why would I need to name 20 players to argue he's not top 10?
2. Pretty sure I offered more than win share stats.
Again, I have him outside the top 10 as do many others. That doesn't make him overrated.
Pakuni didn’t say he was overrated. I did.
He is a great player. Also a high volume shooter and I think those guys are rated higher than they should be.
I do not care if you do anything with the Looney family. Just thought it was funny that you're name dropping like our boy Cheeks used to do.
rocket
It is very cool that Double Dribble has known Kevon most of his life. It is far from name dropping when you have a long personal relationship with a family. It is far more entertaining than reading most of the crap posted on here.
then why comment at all...as i said earlier-self discipline ain't in your repertoire.
name dropping can be really cool especially how doc got to know keevon as a young kid. being able to watch someone grow and develop into the people they have become. hards hates this because he doesn't know anyone and hasn't become anything in his own life except a scoop nerd
Muggsy
Have a great 4th of July weekend!
I'm a Bulls fan here. Can anyone explain what they hell the Bulls are doing? That teams has maybe a max potential of a 4 seed and second round playoff team. I understand teams have to spend money so maybe the Lavine signing makes sense, also he can be traded, but the new management has some runway so why don't they tear it down while they can? The franchise seems dead set on 10-15 years of mediocrity with no playoff success (they were boo'd off the court this year) and late teen draft picks. Its no different than the Knicks or Portland.
There are no guarantees in tanking 🤷🏼♂️True, but they are guaranteed to be mediocre on the present path.
True, but they are guaranteed to be mediocre on the present path.
I don't see Lavine becoming a real star player ever in the NBA. He is a good third option on a championship level team, which what he'll hopefully be in a few years when the Bulls decide to tear it down.
Yeah, there are no easy answers for them at the moment. The Bucks and Celtics are clearly ahead of them. Depending where Durant goes, if it’s Miami, that’s another team ahead of them.I'd put the 76'ers and Raptors ahead of them also.
Detroit and Cleveland are lurking as well.
I'm a Bulls fan here. Can anyone explain what they hell the Bulls are doing? That teams has maybe a max potential of a 4 seed and second round playoff team. I understand teams have to spend money so maybe the Lavine signing makes sense, also he can be traded, but the new management has some runway so why don't they tear it down while they can? The franchise seems dead set on 10-15 years of mediocrity with no playoff success (they were boo'd off the court this year) and late teen draft picks. Its no different than the Knicks or Portland.
I think they had to sign Lavine. There's no guarantee they can get a big-time free agent. As far as tearing it down I think we need to see this team for a prolonged stretch with Lonzo Ball. The Bulls are super high on Patrick Williams. If he's a potential all-star they have a pretty formidable rotation. To your point though you have to wonder if Lavine and DeRozan are good enough to get this team to a ECF let alone a title? If they're not who could they realistically go after?Good points. I don't think any decent free agent would come to the Bulls. Why would they? There is no good young players and Levine and DeRozan suck up all the shots. In my opinion, there is no decent foundation for success so tearing it down and building through the draft makes the most sense. Trade Levine and DeRozan and anyone else for picks.
Good points. I don't think any decent free agent would come to the Bulls. Why would they? There is no good young players and Levine and DeRozan suck up all the shots. In my opinion, there is no decent foundation for success so tearing it down and building through the draft makes the most sense. Trade Levine and DeRozan and anyone else for picks.
Alas, the Bulls maybe the most profitable team in the NBA, so having a some-what competitive team under the salary cap makes the most business sense.
Trying to come up with an argument for Durant being top 10 all time.and drawing blanks..
25th career win shares
22nd career playoff win shares
14th career win shares per 48
16th career playoff win shares per 48
15th career VORP
9th career playoff VORP
Top 3 players in similarity score: Garnett, Barkley, Erving.
1 MVP (15 players have 2+)
2 rings on stacked teams.
Great player and obvious first-ballot HOF. Great case for top 20. Not so much top 10.
It's just really tough because there are fewer than 10 guys you can build a title team around. For example, Donavan Mitchell might be available. Would you go after him? Maybe roll the dice and offer a crap-load for Kawhi? The depth in the NBA is really quite strong now in both conferences. Could they offer some package to the Nets for KD?Well, Mitchell would be a upgrade over anything they have but I don't see why he'd come to the Bulls. There a bunch of teams he can go to and win 50 games a loose in the 2nd round of the playoffs. Kawhi, is past his prime, oft injured and moody. Pass.
then why comment at all...as i said earlier-self discipline ain't in your repertoire.
name dropping can be really cool especially how doc got to know keevon as a young kid. being able to watch someone grow and develop into the people they have become. hards hates this because he doesn't know anyone and hasn't become anything in his own life except a scoop nerd
Pakuni didn’t say he was overrated. I did.
He is a great player. Also a high volume shooter and I think those guys are rated higher than they should be.
Here is something ground breaking for you.
Durant shoots a lot, because hes really really good.
His career eFG% sh its on Kobe. A true volume shooter
Its also better than MJ, Lebron, Magic.
Using high volume shooter as a way to overrate Durant is a really bad hill to die on
Actually, I said he is a GREAT player - not a good one.
His eFG% is better than a stiff like Jordan. Proves Durant is the greatest of all time. ::)
He’s much closer to the GOAT than he is to someone who is overrated.
I disagree.
And he is not even in the same universe as guys like MJ, Kareem, or Lebron.
LBJ got his first two rings by joining up with 2 other top 10 players in the NBA/future first ballot Hall of Famers. He also “quits” everywhere he goes (by your definition) and latches on to the younger talent ready to make a run at a title.
KD is without a doubt in the same “universe” as LBJ. You’re trying to tarnish KD’s legacy because the Warriors won before and after KD, but the Cavs beat the Warriors before KD arrived and then KD broke the will of LBJ and Kyrie in Cleveland and forced LBJ to “quit” on the Cavs…again.
Quit the double standards.
LBJ got his first two rings by joining up with 2 other top 10 players in the NBA/future first ballot Hall of Famers. He also “quits” everywhere he goes (by your definition) and latches on to the younger talent ready to make a run at a title.
KD is without a doubt in the same “universe” as LBJ. You’re trying to tarnish KD’s legacy because the Warriors won before and after KD, but the Cavs beat the Warriors before KD arrived and then KD broke the will of LBJ and Kyrie in Cleveland and forced LBJ to “quit” on the Cavs…again.
Quit the double standards.
If calling him a great player tarnishes his legacy, then I am guilty.
Spend pages of the thread bashing every accomplishment he’s achieved (ahh he just joined a superteam so his rings don’t count. Ahh he’s a volume scorer so his scoring doesn’t count. Ahh he quits every time something bad happens) but hey I called him great so you can’t tell me I’m wrong!
Wow. You fabricated a lot in that post.
You're better off just bashing LeBron and then letting the grownups talk NBA.
I think they had to sign Lavine. There's no guarantee they can get a big-time free agent. As far as tearing it down I think we need to see this team for a prolonged stretch with Lonzo Ball. The Bulls are super high on Patrick Williams. If he's a potential all-star they have a pretty formidable rotation. To your point though you have to wonder if Lavine and DeRozan are good enough to get this team to a ECF let alone a title? If they're not who could they realistically go after?
Ive watched a decent bit of NBA Summer League. Everyone's favorite overrated Pirate, Myles Powell, is playing for the Sixers team. Why hasn't he gotten as much run as, say, Markus? Why hasn't he stuck at all? Why has he only averaged a point on miserable sub 30%/20% shooting splits? Cause he's the same chucker bum he was towards the end of his Seton Hall career, but against better talent. The number of terrible shots Ive seen him take in like 5 min of gametime Ive actually watched is hilarious.
My favorite was a stepback 3...that he stepped half a foot over the sideline as he got it off.
Can anyone explain to me why the Nets would even remotely consider trading Kyrie and Curry for Westbrook, like a lot of the rumor mill is pushing. Makes absolutely no sense to trade Kyrie for Westbrook, makes even less sense to throw in another quality player like Curry.
Westbrook’s expiring contract is valuable. Beyond that, no idea.
Westbrook’s expiring contract is valuable. Beyond that, no idea.
My way too early prediction: Jaden Ivey will be Rookie of the Year, by a landslide.
My way too early prediction: Jaden Ivey will be Rookie of the Year, by a landslide.
Can anyone explain to me why the Nets would even remotely consider trading Kyrie and Curry for Westbrook, like a lot of the rumor mill is pushing. Makes absolutely no sense to trade Kyrie for Westbrook, makes even less sense to throw in another quality player like Curry.Because it's the Lakers and their fans. If you listen to Laker fans, Kyrie, Giannis, Steph Curry and 4 other All-Stars are headed to LA. Just like the Cowboy predictions to win the Super Bowl the last 25 years.
My way too early prediction: Jaden Ivey will be Rookie of the Year, by a landslide.
I don't agree. I think one of the top 3 picks will win - probably Holmgren if he stays healthy.
Ivey won't get all those easy drives to the hoop against real NBA defenses.
I would actually say Banchero. I think his ceiling may be the lowest of the top 3, but he's easily the most NBA ready right now.
My way too early prediction: Jaden Ivey will be Rookie of the Year, by a landslide.
I follow the logic. But what is the ceiling for the Bulls in the next 2-3 years? Maybe 50 wins and maybe 2nd round of the playoffs. No top line FA is going to join this group and the window is very narrow with DaRozan and Lavine. If they were interested in winning at the highest level (which I doubt since they make a ton of money) the plans should be tear down, draft choices, rebuild.
Not only that, but they made a pretty big leap to a six seed last year after being outside the playoffs for years. They had to invest in Levine after brining in DeRozan last year. Plus as you said, a healthy Ball, and a solid back up PG in Dragic, and I can see them surprising some people.
A lot of people said the Celtics should have torn it down after the last couple of seasons, but their core grew together and made the Finals. I doubt the Bulls will do that, but that path is much more clear than tearing it down now.
I follow the logic. But what is the ceiling for the Bulls in the next 2-3 years? Maybe 50 wins and maybe 2nd round of the playoffs. No top line FA is going to join this group and the window is very narrow with DaRozan and Lavine. If they were interested in winning at the highest level (which I doubt since they make a ton of money) the plans should be tear down, draft choices, rebuild.
Ball could be a game changer but he's as reliable as Ralph Sampson. Not his fault but he has and established history of injuries and he's only getting older.
You are probably right on their ceiling but who knows? Building a NBA team is hard. In the last 20 seasons, only a third of the league has won a championship! If you continuously pull the plug on rebuilds before you let them play out, you aren't going anywhere.
Yes but how has the plug in good players and adding decent FAs for Chicago and New York in the past 25 years? I'd say if you go with that plan, "you aren't going anywhere". If DeRozan and Lavine were 25, I'd say stay the course, but this seems to be a certain plan of early playoff exits and draft picks between 18 to 23. We've seen Utah run that plan for the past 5 years. Not pretty.
You are probably right on their ceiling but who knows? Building a NBA team is hard. In the last 20 seasons, only a third of the league has won a championship! If you continuously pull the plug on rebuilds before you let them play out, you aren't going anywhere.
Yes but how has the plug in good players and adding decent FAs for Chicago and New York in the past 25 years? I'd say if you go with that plan, "you aren't going anywhere". If DeRozan and Lavine were 25, I'd say stay the course, but this seems to be a certain plan of early playoff exits and draft picks between 18 to 23. We've seen Utah run that plan for the past 5 years. Not pretty.
Oh well, the Bulls will make bank and in the end, that is the real goal.
Apparently MarJon Beauchamp looks pretty good for the Bucks so far. But if there is any indication of the quality of competition, Mamu has been filling up the the boxscore after two games.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/adam-silver-in-favor-of-lowering-nba-age-limit-from-19-to-18-years-old-its-the-right-thing-to-do/#:~:text=While%20speaking%20at%20his%20annual,the%20right%20thing%20to%20do.%22
Silver says he wants to drop the age limit back down to 18 during the next CBA.
Speaking of stupid: "Rasheed Wallace would be better than Giannis today". Oh.... okay Mr. Iguodala. Worst hoops take ever?
Obviously beyond belief. Wallace was just a guy in the NBA. Nothing special in any way. Certainly not a top 100 or top 200 guy. Maybe not top 300. Maybe not top 400. Just a guy. Every team in the NBA has at least one guy better than him. Some have 2 or 3.
Obviously beyond belief. Wallace was just a guy in the NBA. Nothing special in any way. Certainly not a top 100 or top 200 guy. Maybe not top 300. Maybe not top 400. Just a guy. Every team in the NBA has at least one guy better than him. Some have 2 or 3.
Obviously beyond belief. Wallace was just a guy in the NBA. Nothing special in any way. Certainly not a top 100 or top 200 guy. Maybe not top 300. Maybe not top 400. Just a guy. Every team in the NBA has at least one guy better than him. Some have 2 or 3.
I mean, he was a four time all star.
Obviously beyond belief. Wallace was just a guy in the NBA. Nothing special in any way. Certainly not a top 100 or top 200 guy. Maybe not top 300. Maybe not top 400. Just a guy. Every team in the NBA has at least one guy better than him. Some have 2 or 3.
oof
Are you saying Wallace was closer to Giannis as a player than to being just a guy?
He was actually and statistically closer to Taj Gibson than Giannis. No hyperbole.
Are you saying Wallace was closer to Giannis as a player than to being just a guy?
He was actually and statistically closer to Taj Gibson than Giannis. No hyperbole.
The Giannis comparison is extreme, of course, but he was nowhere near Taj Gibson. But thats not what you said. You said he was "nothing special" and "just a guy". Now you're changing to that he was closer to that than Giannis.
Per 36 minutes: Gibson 13.2 Pts. 9 rebounds
Per 36 minutes: Wallace 13.4 Pts 7.4 rebounds.
Per 36 minutes: Giannis 24.1 Pts 10.4 rebounds
eFG% - advantage Gibson over Wallace
Defense - advantage Gibson over Wallace
Despite the numbers advantage for Gibson, yes Wallace was a better player - at one point in his career, much better. He could take over a game. Gibson couldn't.
But my point stands. Wallace is way closer to just a guy than he is to Giannis. And I still don't think he was anything special. His actual results never lived up to what his talents indicated he could be.
If you go back to college?
Wallace: 13 Pts 7.4 Reb.
Justin Lewis: 13.2 Pts. 6.9 Reb.
Despite the numbers Wallace was the better player. By quite a bit. That's consensus, not just my opinion. But he was never special enough where he should be compared to Giannis.
Again, super cold take. Wallace is on the edge of being a HOF guy. Might never make it, but will always be in the conversation.
I mean, he was a four time all star.
I did think it was a bit of hyperbole, but there were 159 players with more than that. Wallace is one of 203 players with 4+ appearances, so there's an argument that he could be outside the top-200, especially as some of the guys with four or more are Jokic, Kemba, Booker, Doncic, Middleton, Mitchell, and Towns that still have some years to go and could pass him.Well, the argument that Jockey made was that he was just a guy. Many lists have him at or near the top 25 all time power forwards. Today's game suits his offensive abilities.
Wallace was a good player, but he'll never be in the same conversations as Giannis.
Well, the argument that Jockey made was that he was just a guy. Many lists have him at or near the top 25 all time power forwards. Today's game suits his offensive abilities.
Yep. Not to mention all the talk of "how would X player fair in today's game" and we talk about old greats would have adapted. Sheed wouldn't have had to attempt. He would have been an incredible stretch 4 playing the same way.
Of course he's not Giannis and never would be. But he was never just a guy
He was a bad 3 pt. shooter.
I said he was just a guy. In other words a 12-14 Pt and 6-7 rebound guy. A decent enough player, but certainly not great.
Jae Crowder has been a better scorer in his career per 36 min. than Wallace. And while Jae should be in the MU HoF, I doubt he will ever get a single vote for the Basketball Hall of Fame. That is what I mean by 'just a guy'. A good player who is not special.
I certainly did not call him a replacement level player.
Harold Baines.I agree with this analysis
He averaged 14.4 and 6.7 for his career. And that includes a number of declining years on the end of his career. Thats like summing up Gary Payton's career based on his time in Boston, Miami, and LA.
And "bad 3 pt shooter"? Great, here we go with hyperbole again. He was a career 34% 3pt shooter. He shot around 36% for good chunks of his prime, in a very different NBA shooting era. Guys with roughly 36% career 3P percentages include Kyle Lowery, Chris Paul and Eric Gordon, none of whom are "bad 3pt shooters". He wasn't Peja Stojaković, but stop acting like he was some brick layer just cause you think he was a mediocre pro.
But you'll continue to cherry pick stats (choosing a guy who was never even a top 3 option on his team/playing lesser minutes in a complementary role to compare to a star/focal point of an offense) to die on this hill that nobody else resides on. So enough to let it be
Exactly. Comparing Rasheed Wallace’s college stats to Justin Lewis’s, lol.
Throwing out points per 36 to current players. How many team points were being scored then vs. now?
Some really bad takes and then some goalpost shifting. It’s fun.
Look, Wallace was a good player. Could even call him a very good bordering on great player during his prime.
But what set Jockey off was Iguodala comparing him to Giannis, who will be a first-ballot HoFer and could end up being a top-25 all-time player.
So Jockey is probably over the top in his criticism of Wallace ... but he's just some anonymous interwebs guy. A respected NBA pro actually thought comparing Sheed favorably to Giannis was a great take. Iggy deserves criticism for a dopey-arse take.
Look, Wallace was a good player. Could even call him a very good bordering on great player during his prime.
But what set Jockey off was Iguodala comparing him to Giannis, who will be a first-ballot HoFer and could end up being a top-25 all-time player.
So Jockey is probably over the top in his criticism of Wallace ... but he's just some anonymous interwebs guy. A respected NBA pro actually thought comparing Sheed favorably to Giannis was a great take. Iggy deserves criticism for a dopey-arse take.
Look, Wallace was a good player. Could even call him a very good bordering on great player during his prime.
But what set Jockey off was Iguodala comparing him to Giannis, who will be a first-ballot HoFer and could end up being a top-25 all-time player.
So Jockey is probably over the top in his criticism of Wallace ... but he's just some anonymous interwebs guy. A respected NBA pro actually thought comparing Sheed favorably to Giannis was a great take. Iggy deserves criticism for a dopey-arse take.
Great, lemme go argue with Iguodala on a message board about his poor take.
I think everyone identified the mistake both guys made, but no one is trying to litigate how dumb Iguodala's was.
A very simple, "I guess I didn't know enough about Rasheed Wallace's career" probably would have ended this about 20 posts ago.
So no one "litigated" how dumb Iguodala’s take was because you said so? I "litigated it" before MU 82 and it led to a discussion of how good Rasheed Wallace was in his era and how stupid Iggy's comments were. You're lecturing for no reason and adding a post to a thread which you claim should have been terminated. I find this a little bizarre.
You're misunderstanding. No one disagreed around here when Iguodala was called an idiot.
People disagreed when Rasheed Wallace was called 'just a guy'.
Yes. But Jockey admitted he was being hyperbolic to amplify his point.
Yes. But Jockey admitted he was being hyperbolic to amplify his point.
That's what people do instead of saying they made a mistake.
Everyone makes mistakes. I think he was trying to be hyperbolic but the execution could have fallen a bit flat. Clearly Wallace was a solid player.
Great, lemme go argue with Iguodala on a message board about his poor take.
I think everyone identified the mistake both guys made, but no one is trying to litigate how dumb Iguodala's was.
A very simple, "I guess I didn't know enough about Rasheed Wallace's career" probably would have ended this about 20 posts ago.
This post is why hyperbole is such a fun tool.
Right, and I don't care that he made a mistake. At all. I make them all the time.Your latest being spending time trying to convince Jockey to admit he was clueless about Rasheed Wallace.
Your latest being spending time trying to convince Jockey to admit he was clueless about Rasheed Wallace.
Your latest being spending time trying to convince Jockey to admit he was clueless about Rasheed Wallace.
But you don't understand, someone wasFIFYwrongbeing hyperbolic on the internet.
This post is why hyperbole is such a fun tool.
Hyperbole is the greatest thing in the history of the universe!
You needed at least one "literally" in there.
But..., The definition of literally is no longer the literal definition of literally.
This conversation is LITERALLY killing me.
U.S. moonlandin', aina?
Peddle his azz ring, hey?
Who replaces Barkley if he leaves TNT for LIV Golf?
rocket
The Athletic says the Celtics have emerged as a possible landing spot for Durant ...
After the Phoenix Suns matched Indiana’s $133 million maximum offer sheet to Deandre Ayton, the list of suitors for Durant became clearer. With Ayton currently unable to be traded, the Suns appear to be all but eliminated from the Durant sweepstakes. The Toronto Raptors and Miami Heat remain among the teams in pursuit — and the Boston Celtics recently offered a package around one-time All-Star Jaylen Brown for Durant and have emerged as a real threat to acquire Durant, league sources tell The Athletic.
The Celtics offered Brown, guard Derrick White and a draft pick to the Nets for Durant, sources said. The proposal was rejected, and Brooklyn has asked Boston — in any proposal — to include Brown, Defensive Player of the Year Marcus Smart, draft picks and potentially one more rotation player, those sources added. Currently, the Celtics are less inclined to include Smart along with multiple other player or pick assets, but the franchise is mulling over next steps on how to approach discussions.
Obviously, the Celtics couldn't have thought that the Nets would settle only for Brown, White and a draft pick. And it seems like the Nets have countered by asking for the world, which isn't surprising. So it will be interesting to see where this goes.
If I'm the Nets, I am in no hurry to make a trade. He still has four years left on his deal.
It's a real interesting situation. Do you make a high-priced but unhappy Durant (if he's unhappy) toil for you or maybe even hold out even as he only gets older? Would that increase or decrease his trade value?
I tend to agree with you, but I'm not sure how I define "in no hurry."
I think some sort of deal is going to be made. The Nets aren't going to get a better package and Brown is young. It would certainly make Boston the heavy favorites to win the 2023 title unless Smart has to be in the trade.
"I strongly believe the 2004 Pistoms would beat any team, in any era, in a 7 Game series" Kendrick Perkinns lead NBA analyst ESPN.
Where do we rank this among the most boneheaded comments in the history of NBA discussions?
I think some sort of deal is going to be made. The Nets aren't going to get a better package and Brown is young. It would certainly make Boston the heavy favorites to win the 2023 title unless Smart has to be in the trade.
"I strongly believe the 2004 Pistoms would beat any team, in any era, in a 7 Game series" Kendrick Perkinns lead NBA analyst ESPN.
Where do we rank this among the most boneheaded comments in the history of NBA discussions?
The Nets can get a ton more than a 3rd/4th option (Brown), an OK bench player (White) and a bottom of round 1 draft pick (which is what the Celtics' pick would be). I get that you lowball your initial offer to offer plenty of room for negotiation, but I gotta agree with Sultan that this offer is ridiculous bordering on insulting.
I mean, Boston at least has to include superstar-to-be Sam Hauserwitzer, no?
Yes, I doubt most would agree that the 2004 Pistons would win any 7-game series against any team. They barely beat the Nets in the second round that year and most of the players on the Lakers team they beat in the Finals were old and fading. Either Jordan 3-peat team would have beaten them most (if not all) of the time, as would the 80s Lakers and Celtics teams. I doubt they even would have been favored over their Bad Boy forefathers of 1989 or 1990.
But it was just one talking head's sports opinion, so who really cares?
So if some sports analyst, a person who makes a living in that field, stated Michael Phelps is faster in the water than a Saifish, it's no biggie? Despite the fact that a Sailfish can swim 60 mph? Perk's 2004 Pistons comment is close to that level of stupidity. If I stated diminutive people of the world should take over the NBA and the hoop should be lowered to 7.5 feet your response would be a shoulder shrug? :) There's nothing wrong with calling out unconscionable/idiotic statements. Especially from people that are paid to analyze a particular sport.
If I stated diminutive people of the world should take over the NBA and the hoop should be lowered to 7.5 feet your response would be a shoulder shrug? :)
There's nothing wrong with calling out unconscionable/idiotic statements. Especially from people that are paid to analyze a particular sport.
So if some sports analyst, a person who makes a living in that field, stated Michael Phelps is faster in the water than a Saifish, it's no biggie? Despite the fact that a Sailfish can swim 60 mph? Perk's 2004 Pistons comment is close to that level of stupidity. If I stated diminutive people of the world should take over the NBA and the hoop should be lowered to 7.5 feet your response would be a shoulder shrug? :) There's nothing wrong with calling out unconscionable/idiotic statements. Especially from people that are paid to analyze a particular sport.
Life’s too short to get upset about this stuff.
According to The Athletic, Durant has said the Nets’ owner must choose between him and Nash, Marks.
Says he doesn’t “have faith in the team’s direction.”
All of the LeBron haters who criticize him for playing GM - what say ye?
Imagine if the Nets hadn't traded for Harden. You'd be looking at a lineup of:
Kyrie, Joe Harris, Spencer Dinwiddie, Kevin Durant, and Jarrett Allen
With Caris Lavert, Landry Shamet, Jeff Green, Bruce Brown, and DeAndre Jordan coming off the bench.
OOPS!
#freeziggy
#freerocket
#freeziggyI would sure hate to have to pay for them.
#freerocket
Durant is apparently staying in Brooklyn. LOL.
Only because no team was willing to give up their future for a 34 year old who has never shown the capability to lead a team to a title and who hasn't played over 68 games since he was 25..
Here we go again.... He was the best player on an NBA champion. I know you like to ignore things like that but...
Anyway, his age and injuries are legit concerns.
Only because no team was willing to give up their future for a 34 year old who has never shown the capability to lead a team to a title and who hasn't played over 68 games since he was 25..
The same team (the core) won a championship before he joined and won a championship after he left.
Whether he was the best player? I think we disagree on that. I think Steph and Draymond were both more important to winning.
Durant simply couldn't do what Jabbar, MJ, LeBron, Bird, Magic, etc., could do.
The same team (the core) won a championship before he joined and won a championship after he left.
Whether he was the best player? I think disagree on that. I think Steph and Draymond were both more important to winning.
Durant simply couldn't do what Jabbar, MJ, LeBron, Bird, Magic, etc., could do.
The same team (the core) won a championship before he joined and won a championship after he left.
Whether he was the best player? I think we disagree on that. I think Steph and Draymond were both more important to winning.
Durant simply couldn't do what Jabbar, MJ, LeBron, Bird, Magic, etc., could do.
It became pretty obvious that the asking price was too high, so he’d have to stay.
No one should cry for KD. (And no one here is, thankfully.) He’s with the team he wanted to play for - a team that paid him bigly for missing an entire season - and he’s alongside the all-star PG he personally recruited to play with him.
Stop whining, play basketball, and earn your $50M/yr. Lead the Nets to something.
It became pretty obvious that the asking price was too high, so he’d have to stay.
No one should cry for KD. (And no one here is, thankfully.) He’s with the team he wanted to play for - a team that paid him bigly for missing an entire season - and he’s alongside the all-star PG he personally recruited to play with him.
Stop whining, play basketball, and earn your $50M/yr. Lead the Nets to something.
It became pretty obvious that the asking price was too high, so he’d have to stay.
No one should cry for KD. (And no one here is, thankfully.) He’s with the team he wanted to play for - a team that paid him bigly for missing an entire season - and he’s alongside the all-star PG he personally recruited to play with him.
Stop whining, play basketball, and earn your $50M/yr. Lead the Nets to something.
I mean, he has every right to ask for a trade. Not sure I would call it “whining.”
LOL at Draymond being more important than KD. That’s the funniest thing I’ve ever heard on Scoop.
Draymond won Championships pre-KD, with KD, and post KD.
Could you list the Championships Durant has won without Draymond?
I never said Draymond was a better player. That's obvious to anyone. But he is and has been more important to the Warriors success. That is simply a fact.
Draymond won Championships pre-KD, with KD, and post KD.
Could you list the Championships Durant has won without Draymond?
I never said Draymond was a better player. That's obvious to anyone. But he is and has been more important to the Warriors success. That is simply a fact.
Draymond won Championships pre-KD, with KD, and post KD.
Could you list the Championships Durant has won without Draymond?
I never said Draymond was a better player. That's obvious to anyone. But he is and has been more important to the Warriors success. That is simply a fact.
Hakeem Olajuwon never won a championship without Robert Horry. Horry won 5 without him. Obviously Horry is the better player.
Oh Jesus. Kevon Looney also won a title without KD. KD has never won one without Looney. Guess Looney is more important to winning titles than KD is. Same with Iggy.
These are some god awful takes.
Now you’re just acting stupid.
Green is a solid candidate to be elected to the HoF. Looney can only visit the HoF.
Green is the single most important defender on GS. And defense wins titles.
Now you’re just acting stupid.
Green is a solid candidate to be elected to the HoF. Looney can only visit the HoF.
Green is the single most important defender on GS. And defense wins titles.
Now you’re just acting stupid.
Green is a solid candidate to be elected to the HoF. Looney can only visit the HoF.
Green is the single most important defender on GS. And defense wins titles.
I agree. That argument was monumentally stupid.
For some reason, you guys think I am always attacking Durant. I have stated repeatedly that he is a top 3 player in the NBA and top20 all-time.
This argument reminds me of when the Cavaliers traded for Love. Everyone was saying Love was a top 10 player and I was ridiculed for arguing that he wasn’t. He scored and rebounded a lot because he was the best player on a garbage team. He was not a great player
I’m extremely confident that if you asked every NBA GM who they’d pick to build a championship team and you said either KD or Draymond, they’d laugh their ass off.
I don’t know or care if you’re trying to rip Durant or not. What I do know is your takes are absolutely awful. Because Draymond has never played without Klay and Steph you think he’s a more important basketball player than a guy who is unquestionably a top 5 player of this generation. It’s hysterical how dumb your arguments are.
If you put Draymond on the Nets this year and KD on the Warriors this year, I feel very confident the Warriors win a title and the Nets don’t even compete.
I’m extremely confident that if you asked every NBA GM who they’d pick to build a championship team and you said either KD or Draymond, they’d laugh their ass off.
I don’t know or care if you’re trying to rip Durant or not. What I do know is your takes are absolutely awful. Because Draymond has never played without Klay and Steph you think he’s a more important basketball player than a guy who is unquestionably a top 5 player of this generation. It’s hysterical how dumb your arguments are.
If you put Draymond on the Nets this year and KD on the Warriors this year, I feel very confident the Warriors win a title and the Nets don’t even compete.
Chet Holmgren out for the year.
Ouch
Chet Holmgren out for the year.
Ouch
Big guy with a foot injury is like a home run hitter with a back injury.
Maybe. Joel Embiid turned out OK. Greg Oden, not so much.
Chet Holmgren out for the year.
Ouch
I actually thought about those two (and Sam Bowie) this morning when I heard the news.
Hope for Chet that his case is more like Embiid, and not like Oden/Bowie.
I’m extremely confident that if you asked every NBA GM who they’d pick to build a championship team and you said either KD or Draymond, they’d laugh their ass off.
I don’t know or care if you’re trying to rip Durant or not. What I do know is your takes are absolutely awful. Because Draymond has never played without Klay and Steph you think he’s a more important basketball player than a guy who is unquestionably a top 5 player of this generation. It’s hysterical how dumb your arguments are.
If you put Draymond on the Nets this year and KD on the Warriors this year, I feel very confident the Warriors win a title and the Nets don’t even compete.
Without a college degree, what’s he going to do?
I heard he's lazy.
I doubt it. He’s a white kid
Yes, if I was building a team I would take Durant over Green. It’s a no-brainer.
But Green is a better fit for a great shooting team like GS. They don’t win all those titles without his defense.
When Durant leads as team to a title, I will concede that you are right.
Gym rat.
Coach's kid.
Sneaky athletic.
Scrappy.
High IQ player.
Traditional.
I doubt it. He’s a white kid
The Cavs apparently snagged Donovan Mitchell. But they gave up a ton.
The Cavs apparently snagged Donovan Mitchell. But they gave up a ton.
I like what they’ve done in Cleveland. Not good enough to win a title but interesting enough that some star may think they can and might join in
See I disagree. I think this is a rare "star" trade where both teams win. Cavs send Sexton (who was secondary at the PG to Garland), Lauri (who is owed another $65MM and probably wouldn't start this year), and a rookie, plus picks years from now, not even in the next 2 drafts, when you'd hope to be picking in the 20s anyway. They have tons of young talent, they don't need a bunch more picks if they get a alpha scorer.
Jazz add more picks. Now 15 first rounders in the next 7-8 years. Plus Conley will probably be moved too. Ainge is wheeling and dealing.
Man the Cavs got attractive in a HURRY. Garland, Mitchell, Mobley is a great trio. Allen is good interior anchor. And maybe Caris Levert gets back to his 18-20 level in an off the bench role like Jordan Clarkson. AND they get another $30MM a year coming off the books next year when Kevin Love retires.
See I disagree. I think this is a rare "star" trade where both teams win. Cavs send Sexton (who was secondary at the PG to Garland), Lauri (who is owed another $65MM and probably wouldn't start this year), and a rookie, plus picks years from now, not even in the next 2 drafts, when you'd hope to be picking in the 20s anyway. They have tons of young talent, they don't need a bunch more picks if they get a alpha scorer.
Jazz add more picks. Now 15 first rounders in the next 7-8 years. Plus Conley will probably be moved too. Ainge is wheeling and dealing.
Man the Cavs got attractive in a HURRY. Garland, Mitchell, Mobley is a great trio. Allen is good interior anchor. And maybe Caris Levert gets back to his 18-20 level in an off the bench role like Jordan Clarkson. AND they get another $30MM a year coming off the books next year when Kevin Love retires.
The question ultimately comes down to whether they are now good enough to be a title contender or not? I think they're certainly intriguing but not good enough to be in the mix for a ring.
I don't think they are in a mix for a ring this year, but their trio is 21, 22, and 25. They are all signed through 2026. Add in the ability to add another big piece next year with the K Love money, and I think they could easily contend for the East in 2024 if Garland and Mobley continue to develop like they have.
Fair points. Don't Garland and Mitchell play a similar style and need the ball in their hands? I haven't watched Garland enough but Mitchell isn't as effective off the ball. Wade adjusted with Lebron but had a much more efficient game.
Quite a situation involving Suns majority owner Robert Sarver.
He's revealed himself as a raging racist and supreme a-hole. The NBA suspended him for a year ... but it should be no surprise that the Black people who make up the majority of the league's on-court talent want him Sterlinged. It would be an upset if he isn't gone very soon.
He'll get his money, just as Sterling did, but he'll spend the rest of his life being known as "that racist dirtball who used to own the Suns."
Becky Hammon is better than how many NBA coaches?
Its an interesting question, but she did inherit an absolutely STACKED team. 3 consecutive 1st picks (2 of whom were pretty unanimous NPOY in college), plus they signed a perennial All Star in Chelsea Grey. Be like having a team in the early 2010s with Lebron, D Rose, and Blake Griffin, and then also signing Joe Johnson.
That being said, she's fantastic with Xs and Os and her dead ball out of bounds play design was pretty excellent on a consistent basis. She definitely deserves a look over a bunch of the retreads that keep finding jobs.
The Athletic is reporting that the next collective bargaining agreement will once again allow kids to go directly from preps to pros. In other words, the end of college basketball's One-and-Done Error.
According to Woj, they still have to work out some details and probably wouldn't take place for a couple of years. But also 18 year olds are not "kids."
I hope when they allow hs players to go pro that they will also give them the option to play college hoops if they are not drafted.
Robert Sarver selling the Suns.
Should we start a collection?
And Rodger Sherman hits it right on the head with Sarver.
https://twitter.com/rodger/status/1572631985872375815?s=20&t=iKlKbIXGl0FzjvzTsc4YXw
I mean they just hired their gm but okHence, "Ball can be the perfect excuse for the new guys to hit the reset button."
Ime Udoka, huh?
I don't get why you'd suspend your coach for a full season but not just can him. Sure, he's a good NBA coach, but is he so much better than Mazulla or whatever other move you would make that its worth awkwardly freezing your whole front office to retain the rights to bring him back after this year?
Dudes who can't keep their schwantz in their pants, end up with their tit in a wringer, aina?
The Bulls aren't setting the reset button now. They just signed LaVine to a max contract and made the playoffs for the first time in five years.
We agree.
"But if I had to guess, they will churn and burn as a borderline playoff team for a few years before slipping back into a perennial lottery team. Fire some coaches and finally the GM."
LaVine would be a good third option on a very good team. Him being no.1 or 2 on the Bulls speaks to the lack of talent in Chicago.
I don't get why you'd suspend your coach for a full season but not just can him. Sure, he's a good NBA coach, but is he so much better than Mazulla or whatever other move you would make that its worth awkwardly freezing your whole front office to retain the rights to bring him back after this year?
https://clutchpoints.com/twitter-digs-up-ugly-past-of-ime-udokas-interim-replacement-joe-mazzulla/Doh!
Oops! The guy who is replacing Ime for the year was getting in trouble at West Virginia under Bob Huggins.
Doh!
Does Stevens want his old job back?
I hear Barry Alvarez is taking over
ESPN has Durant as the 8th best player in the NBA.
Apparently, the experts at ESPN are as stupid as I am.
Agreed. I just looked. Got to number 7. Saw Jayson Tatum ahead of Kevin Durant. Laughed so much the tears in my eyes wouldn't allow me to see who they ranked 1-6.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-top-100-player-rankings-giannis-stephen-curry-kevin-durant-vie-for-no-1-lebron-james-slips/
CBS has Durant at #3 behind Giannis and Steph. That seems right to me.
You're the same guy that wrote about Kevin Love being an "elite" player. So I guess I am laughing harder than you.
https://clutchpoints.com/twitter-digs-up-ugly-past-of-ime-udokas-interim-replacement-joe-mazzulla/
Oops! The guy who is replacing Ime for the year was getting in trouble at West Virginia under Bob Huggins.
Regardless, if you're actually telling me that you think Jayson Tatum is better than Kevin Durant TODAY (not like some futures list), I don't know what to tell you. It's not remotely close and never has been.
Okay, Chico ;D ;D ;D ;D
I literally just posted that Durant was a top 5 player and Tatum wasn’t.
But I guess your argument only works if you make up something to argue against.
I would imagine there is more to this Udoka story that we don't know.
I don't think so. Guy had an affair with the female staffer, and either got dimed out by someone or the female staffer gave him up. Maybe he told her he would leave his actress wife for her and he didn't and she got pissed off.
I do agree with you that I can't see him overcoming this and making a "comeback" in 2023-2024 season. If he did not lead Celtics to Finals or if it was any other coach in these times, they we be fired, not suspended.
You literally posted an article “proving” you didn’t have a dumb take because KD was ranked 7. Tatum was ranked 6. So you’re discrediting your own source that you claimed makes you not an idiot…
Keep the word salad coming.
I did not say I agreed with every ESPN ranking.
I did say I ranked Durant in my top 5.
He might not be as “elite” as Love, but he’s pretty good.
Celtics are dumb.
Acting like they are taking some moral high ground but also dont fire him.
I'm with Stephen A. Do it in house or fire him.
Its 2022, shouldn't the Celtics chit can the the staffer in this consensual relationship too, hey?
Some rumors that Ime's relationship wasn't just this innocent thing that they tried to make it out to be. Celtics say it's a 1 year suspension and they'll reevaluate from there. Yikes.
I saw some rumors on Reddit (so it’s 100% accurate) that it was more than one woman and one of the women was a Celtics Executive’s wife. He was told to stop and didn’t.
Who knows if any of that is true. It does seem like there’s more to the story.
Was that wrong?
Yes, usually only the owners get to do the phucking.the owners AND Wilt Chamberlain.
I saw some rumors on Reddit (so it’s 100% accurate) that it was more than one woman and one of the women was a Celtics Executive’s wife. He was told to stop and didn’t.
Who knows if any of that is true. It does seem like there’s more to the story.
This is the primary rumor, that she is the VP's wife. I'm still pretty dumbfounded by the 1 year suspension.
It’s all legal maneuvering. They can suspend, then truly reevaluate (or basically put the ball in his court to resign)…if they fire, opens themselves up to lawsuits from him.
I know the rumor mill is churning, but my guess he will be on the NBA sidelines for a long long time, and maybe forever.
Also, I’m in the camp he has leaked all this info, not the Cs. They ran an investigation for nearly 2 months from an independent law firm, then all of sudden (with no leaks), then at the very end a report about a “consensual” relationship between adults is leaked? Dude is cooked
So now there's a rumor that a Celtics player leaked the Udoka story? Hmmmmm...
So now there's a rumor that a Celtics player leaked the Udoka story? Hmmmmm...
So now there's a rumor that a Celtics player leaked the Udoka story? Hmmmmm...
Probably a huge Friday and Big Momma’s House fan
Classic Hauser move
Thank God hoops is back in a few weeks. This has the potential to be one of the best NBA seasons I can remember if Kawhi and Zion are healthy. Do the Bucks have enough or should they try to get something for Grayson Allen?
The Bucks are largely fine right now. See what shakes out as the deadline nears.
Agreed. The best thing that the Bucks could get for Grayson Allen is a high performing Grayson Allen.
Seeing Jamal Cain pop up in Heat training camp vids has been fun (0:50 mark)
https://www.youtube.com/v/P1P0OU2XsN0
Herro got four years, 130m.
By all accounts Wembanyama is the real deal. Look out when he gains strength and like 25 lbs.
Kid looked damn good last nightyep. I would take him over Holmgren every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
Kid looked damn good last night
The way the NBA has set up its draft lottery system now, tanking is not a great strategy unless there are 3-5 players you really want. Because you could go 0-82 and very easily end up with the third or fourth pick.
https://www.nba.com/news/nba-draft-lottery-explainer
It's still an easy decision. There are a very few select teams that have a real shot at winning an NBA title in any season. If your ceiling is making a play in tournament, it'd be much smarter for you to tank than for you to go after every win.
It's still an easy decision. There are a very few select teams that have a real shot at winning an NBA title in any season. If your ceiling is making a play in tournament, it'd be much smarter for you to tank than for you to go after every win.Agreed. Call it tanking or rebuilding or whatever, but it makes no sense to flounder around .500 for years so just rip off the bandage and start over if winning is a priority.
Scoot and Wemby are both S-Tier prospects. Wemby is generational, but Scoot isn't far behind.
Amen Thompson could be a legit #1 pick in 70% of drafts. And there are plenty of intriguing prospects throughout the lottery.
Well, there has been a lot of talk that Holmgren is the "Unicorn". What if Wemby is the Unicorn? And if they wind up on the sane team would one be the Unicorn and the other the Narwhal?
This draft has the potential to be in the same realm as 1984, 1996, and 2003.
I never heard a player referred to as "the" unicorn, just a unicorn.
That's fair.
Apparently Wemby dropped 36 and 11 today.. I'm hearing a 7'4 Durant? I would like to get confirmation of his height because I've read 7'2-7'5. Is he still growing?
Mind blowing.
https://www.youtube.com/v/IF9mlZzfT_o
Wow.....what happens if he's 7'5 and gains like 30 lbs?
He’ll be fatter
That's fair.
Apparently Wemby dropped 36 and 11 today.. I'm hearing a 7'4 Durant? I would like to get confirmation of his height because I've read 7'2-7'5. Is he still growing?
There is a picture of him after the game with Rudy Gobert and he's got a few inches on him comfortably.
People exaggerate all the time, but he's easily the best prospect of the last 20 years. He's absolutely astonishing.
There is a picture of him after the game with Rudy Gobert and he's got a few inches on him comfortably.
People exaggerate all the time, but he's easily the best prospect of the last 20 years. He's absolutely astonishing.
So are we talking a combination of Durant and Anthony Davis? At 7'4? I don't think he has the downhill speed of Giannis but I'm excited to watch this kid develop.
No need to try to shoehorn him into comparisons. He's 1 of 1. Lets just see what he can do
The video of Draymond punching Poole out sure is something.
This is such a crazy story for so many reasons, so many layers.
Draymond is clearly in the wrong, just getting that out of the way. Basically indefensible.
But for all his antics, Draymond is a fantastic teammate, tremendous leader, and seemingly a good guy. So for this to pop off is kind of nuts. Add to that, while I LOVE Poole, he is very obviously a huge sh** talker on the court, who knows what the hell was being said.
Where the Warriors go with this is gonna be fascinating. I believe Bobby Portis got 6 games for rocking Mirotic.
In house. Big fine. No suspension.
They should just trade him at this point. Helped them get 4 titles. But the dude wants a max contract next offseason and he’s never been a max player. And now he’s not even close to the player he was at his best. Not worth it.
Hard to argue with this. There’s no way he gets anything close to a max deal. The quest could make him focus more, or it could make him lose his shyte. Based on this latest evidence, the latter seems more likely.
Trade him to the Nets for KD!
Kerr says that Green will not be suspended and will be back with the team Thursday.
Green has been fined. That'll teach him!
Seriously, I wouldn't have suspended him either. Green already feels embarrassed and crappy. Suspending him would be only a PR move, and the Warriors don't need the PR.
In house. Big fine. No suspension.
I think it's possible the NBA gets involved. Regardless, from a pure basketball standpoint I think this will hurt Golden State and Green individually. He's not going to be able to play the same way like nothing ever happened. His "leadership" qualities are essentially over, he's lost credibility. Beyond that for all his tough guy talk and persona, and "I'm from Saginaw"drivel, it's interesting he overhand righted a defenseless 6'1 guy about 50 lbs lighter. I'd like to see what would happen if he did that to say Steven Adams? In fact, I know Adams is a good dude but I'd love to see him level Draymond. That would be super fun to watch. Especially because Green wouldn't do didly squat.. Green is a bully and a coward. I think Golden State should get rid of the guy but it won't be easy.
You're speaking like you know anything of the situation outside of the video, which had no sound. We've already established that Green was tremendously out of line and took it insanely too far.
However, you're now reaching and saying that it wasn't a disagreement, he's just bullying someone small? Like suddenly someone's whole identity is a lie cause they got into a fight with someone smaller than them? Thats silly. And Green has gotten physical and in altercations with plenty of same size and bigger players. Just stop. Michael Jordan wasn't a coward cause he punched Steve Kerr.
Green and Poole had words. Green lost his temper egregiously and flew off the handle and got violent. Thats all we know. Anything else is just baseless speculation to try and create some narrative about someone for your tried and true "id love to see X try this with Y (where X would get mangled), it would be fun to watch" mantra. At least its not with some exotic creature this time
Suspended for a verbal "altercation" with KD. Punches Poole's lights out and no suspension. I'd find that a bit interesting if I was Jordan Poole.
I think it's possible the NBA gets involved. Regardless, from a pure basketball standpoint I think this will hurt Golden State and Green individually. He's not going to be able to play the same way like nothing ever happened. His "leadership" qualities are essentially over, he's lost credibility. Beyond that for all his tough guy talk and persona, and "I'm from Saginaw"drivel, it's interesting he overhand righted a defenseless 6'1 guy about 50 lbs lighter. I'd like to see what would happen if he did that to say Steven Adams? In fact, I know Adams is a good dude but I'd love to see him level Draymond. That would be super fun to watch. Especially because Green wouldn't do didly squat.. Green is a bully and a coward. I think Golden State should get rid of the guy but it won't be easy.
We'll see. Steph and Kerr are the leaders of that team. Winning tends to make stuff like this go away.
Green had little chance of a max contract anyway. Now he has none. If he gets disruptive, they'll move him. If not, they'll let him help them win and reassess later.
The KD stuff was mid season right? I have a hunch if this was in January, they would have suspended him a game.
JWags, harsh or derogatory words don't give someone a right to clock a defenseless person for any reason whatsoever. The video shows Poole was defenseless for starters. Secondly, the idea that "fights" like this happen all the time at NBA practices is utter nonsense. That wasn't "a fight". I'm sure it's true that actual fights break out at NBA practices and they begin with pushing, elbowing, shoving, or what have you. This was a guy who essentially assaulted Jordan Poole. Who gives a crap what Poole might have said to him?? If you walked by someone on the street and they said the most filthy and disgusting things about you or your family would you react by throwing an overhand right? Or would you know in your mind that you would be charged for assault? What would have happened if Poole was out for a year or forever from that punch? Green absolutely could have been charged for that punch and he would have lost in court.
As far as the Jordan/Kerr punch that's completely irrelevant. The public didn't have video to my knowledge. And if Jordan in fact threw a punch like that while Kerr was just standing there? Yes, that would be a cowardly act
You're shifting goalposts again. I never said anything was justified. I never said Green had a right to do what he did.
And again, we have footage of the punch. Nothing else. We don't know if there were shoves or words or whatever happened earlier in the practice. You're just really eager to go on some diatribe labeling him a coward and a bully over a gross overreaction.
Comparing it to punching a stranger on a street is absurd. Again, stop trying to rewrite a player's decade long career and reputation over a single action viewed in a vaccuum.
Look forward to some silly divergent thread culminating in speculating about someone else introducing Draymond to darkness.
You're shifting goalposts again. I never said anything was justified. I never said Green had a right to do what he did.
And again, we have footage of the punch. Nothing else. We don't know if there were shoves or words or whatever happened earlier in the practice. You're just really eager to go on some diatribe labeling him a coward and a bully over a gross overreaction.
Comparing it to punching a stranger on a street is absurd. Again, stop trying to rewrite a player's decade long career and reputation over a single action viewed in a vaccuum.
Look forward to some silly divergent thread culminating in speculating about someone else introducing Draymond to darkness.
I'm a little shocked honestly JWags that you're so insouciant to a guy walking up to someone and throwing a Tyson Fury haymaker. It is a big deal and I'm not the one fking up Green's reputation. I also think it's not plausible they were "fighting earlier in the practice" before Green nonchalantly shuffled over to him and then lost his temper. That was premeditated, he's lucky Poole wasn't seriously hurt, and that he's not pressing charges. What happened during the practice before that or what was said between the two is totally irrelevant.
Stop using 10 dollar words and ridiculous analogies to keep putting words in my mouth. I never, not once, defended Green, said its ok, no big deal, whatever. Im just objecting to your dumb assertion that he's a "coward" and a "bully" who decided to plot all practice to knock out his promising young teammate, who he's widely praised and helped win him a championship last year, in some psychotic rampage. And further more he only did it cause Poole is smaller than him. That's all just stupid.
Yes he's extremely lucky that Poole wasn't hurt. He'll be extremely lucky if this doesn't implode a team thats poised to make more noise, and nothing further comes from it.
But all the hysterical "if this happened on the street", fighting Steven Adams, Tyson Fury haymaker BS you've been saying to attack an argument Ive never made is just nonsensical.
You can take the Spartan out of East Lansing but you can never take the Spartan out of the dude
Davante pushed a guy to the ground... assault
Draymond throws a potentially deadly punch... a fine?
Davante pushed a guy to the ground... assault
Draymond throws a potentially deadly punch... a fine?
Yeah, I don't quite get how that somehow gets ignored just because it was an NBA practice.
If Poole wants to press charges he can. Then it would be an assault. He won't press chargesThe prosecution can still pursue the case even if Poole declines to press charges.
Davante pushed a guy to the ground... assaultThe victim and their opportunistic tendencies?
Draymond throws a potentially deadly punch... a fine?
If Poole wants to press charges he can. Then it would be an assault. He won't press charges
civil vs criminalIt would most definitely be criminal. Green would be found guilty (based upon video).
It would most definitely be criminal. Green would be found guilty (based upon video).
I don't think anything would be gained by criminal prosecution.
Civil litigation would result in Green losing money but mostly the attorneys would win.
The prosecution can still pursue the case even if Poole declines to press charges.
Yeah, that is the point I am making.
Davante has been criminally charged with assault. Draymond should be as well.
Of course they can but I can't imagine any prosecutor moving forward on a case between two professional athletes without a willing complainantWell, I read your comment literally, and it sounded like you were saying it would only be assault if Poole pressed charges.
Well, I read your comment literally, and it sounded like you were saying it would only be assault if Poole pressed charges.
It's California, so who knows.
Yeah, that is the point I am making.
Davante has been criminally charged with assault. Draymond should be as well.
Of course they can but I can't imagine any prosecutor moving forward on a case between two professional athletes without a willing complainant
The difference is that Davante's complainant is pressing charges. If Poole was pressing charges, Draymond would be criminally charged as well. I'm not a lawyer but I work with prosecutors in my job regularly. My experience is limited to only a handful of prosecutors but 100% of the ones that I know would never criminally charge assault without a willing complainant. And in most cases, I think that's a good thing. The complainant should have a significant say in how their case is addressed.
Poole is reportedly getting a 4yr/140m contract.
Can buy a lot of concealer for $140 million.
How cum Woj didant recruit Poole, hey?
Poole is reportedly getting a 4yr/140m contract.Great. A nice reward for hitting Green's fist with his face.
Appears Marquette offered.
[/quote
Smart move on Poole's part ta play four UM rather than Limp Dick, hey?
Smart move on Poole's part ta play four UM rather than Limp Dick, hey?
Appears Marquette offered.
[/quote
Smart move on Poole's part ta play four UM rather than Limp Dick, hey?
Beilein offered him before anyone else did. Poole also left Milwaukee and played at La Lumiere. You knew all that, though
Davante pushed a guy to the ground... assault
Draymond throws a potentially deadly punch... a fine?
Devante Adams assaulted someone who is in effect a " civilian" ( a member of the production crew) and who was more than happy to file a complaint with the proper authorities. Moral of that story-------if you're going to committ a tort against someone who is part of the supporting cast and only doing his job, don't do it on national television.
The Green/Poole incident is nothing more than a work place dust--up that for all intents and purposes occurred behind closed doors in front of a room full of alpha males. Kind of like 2 longshoremen pounding the piss out of each other in the lunchroom. Nobody will file a complaint. None of the 20+ people present saw or heard anything. No one would testify against a teammate. Move on----nothing to see here.
The product — ClipperVision, it’s called — is a first for the NBA, and the team says it is planning on streaming more than 70 games live in-market this coming season.
“It’s inevitable. This is where things are going. It’s obvious,” Clippers President Gillian Zucker said. “The speed at which the pickup takes place, that’s the only question mark.”
The Athletic's Power Rankings are out. The Bucks (2) and the Heat (5) are the East teams in "Tier 1: The Contenders"
https://theathletic.com/3608925/2022/10/17/nba-power-rankings-season-opening/?source=user-shared-article
Hornets backup James Bouknight was arrested for impaired driving.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/charlotte-hornets/article267431857.html#storylink=cpy
This is commonplace for Bouknight, who has several pending charges from November alone, including speeding and reckless driving. He also was arrested once for similar while he was at UConn.
What a dope, and potentially a killer dope.
He hardly played as a rookie last season but he has moved up to become a rotation player this season. It's hard to root for a guy who doesn't learn, though.
Funny, I happened to catch part of a recent interview with Steve Clifford on NBA radio recently. He said that Patrick Ewing talked to him about Bouknight, presumably before they drafted him. To paraphrase he stated "Patrick had never raved about a college player before to me but he was emphatic that Bouk would be a superstar in the NBA."
Given Ewing’s ability as a college coach, maybe not the best person to glean an assessment from.
The future superstar Bouk was passed out in his car and had a gun with him when he was found and arrested.
He has a bazillion traffic citations outstanding.
Meanwhile, Miles Bridges' trial for beating up the mother of his children -- in front of those children -- has been postponed numerous times. He won't be with the team as the season starts, and even if he escapes his legal issures, he faces a long NBA suspension.
The Hornets have way more arrests than they do playoff victories over the last 10 years. MJ is doing a hell of a job as owner.
Ball and Wembenyama should be fun together next year, though.
Can the Bucks take any of Hayward, Oubre, or PJ Washington from you to assist in your tank season?
Will be very curious what the Bucks look like through the new year. Think this is a team that starts slow and then we’ll see what happens
Definitely agree on the slow start as they will be without Middleton and Connaughton for the first few weeks of the season. It may take a while for things to get gelling.
Interesting that the Athletic didn't have the Sixers in the contenders bracket. I think there's a strong possibility they finish with the 1 seed in the East.
Definitely agree on the slow start as they will be without Middleton and Connaughton for the first few weeks of the season. It may take a while for things to get gelling.
Interesting that the Athletic didn't have the Sixers in the contenders bracket. I think there's a strong possibility they finish with the 1 seed in the East.
Any team with James Harden isn’t a serious contender
The NBA on TNT is just so good.
https://twitter.com/NBAonTNT/status/1582382245100146688?s=20&t=PDFQsBEQy0aL4K6dBe57_g
I know the Celtics lost Udoka but if Williams gets healthy I think they clearly have the best roster in the East. They have a huge perimeter advantage with 4-5 guys that can score and two that are elite scorers.
Dat pretty much guarantees dale suck, aina?
Once Middleton is healthy, and assuming no other serious injuries, the Bucks have the best "championship-type" lineup in the entire league, not to mention the experience of having actually done it. The Celtics have plenty of question marks, too.
If I had to pick the 2023 champions right now, it would be the Bucks.
And most people would agree with that but which roster is better? I think it's clearly the Celtics if R Williams is healthy. They have Tatum, Brown, Brogdan, Smart, White, and maybe Gallanari comes back. Inside they still have Horford and Grant Williams. Lopez will be a year older. I think it's a significant advantage when you have 4 guys minimum that can score not to mention Tatum and Brown may both be better this year. I just feel the Bucks' top 3 have to be great all series in this match-up if everyone is healthy. The Celtics are also better overall defensively based on last season. Now it is conceivable Giannis just wrecks everyone in his path but that's a lot to ask against a complete roster.
OK, Muggs, we’ll agree to disagree.
Yes, Tatum is real good. He’s no Giannis, but he’s real good.
Westbrook looks like complete garbage.
Maybe he read my text? Two straight hoops.
I mean he has 19 pts, 11 rbs, on only 12 shots. Given that he is playing a tertiary role and played off ball a lot, that's a line most would take in a heartbeat.
He's not GIanni and he also had a rough NBA Finals. But he's a top 5 guy and don't forget what he did in G6 in Milwaukee last year. He's the real deal. I'm not so sure when you look at his overall game that you would automatically take Doncic or Jokic ahead of him. He's a very capable defender and has gotten stronger. He's not nearly as consistent as Durant at his peak but he can score from any spot on the floor at 6'10.
I think Tatum is a top 10 player, but not quite top 5.
1. Giannis
2. Curry
3. Jokic
4. Embiid
5. Durant
6. Kawhi (if healthy)
Then there's a bit of a dropoff to the next tier. Tatum is side by side with Luka, Jimmy Butler, and an aging Lebron.
Durant #5? You’ll hear from Wades about that.
ESPN has Durant as the 8th best player in the NBA.
Apparently, the experts at ESPN are as stupid as I am.
Jocky:
Also Jocky: I SAID HE'S TOP 5!
But yes. Ask any GM in the world: For this season only, you can have Embiid, Jokic, or KD. Who you got? I'd venture to guess 90%+ take KD.
But you know what? You're right. Durant and Jokic have proven they can win titles, while KD has not. Thus, KD can't be higher than 5 because he can't get that ring and guys like Embiid and Jokic should be ranked higher than him.
I'm lost. What exactly has Embiid done in the playoffs.
Exactly. Jocky loves to point out that any team with KD isn't a title contender (even though he has 2 titles), KD will never be the best player on a title team (even though he was twice), KD can't win a title on his own (because so many players can take what is otherwise a roster like the Jazz have this year and win a title with them), so he claims KD can't be ranked as a top 3 player. But hey, Jokic and/or Embiid are definitely top 3 players, with all their post season success and all.
The NBA on TNT is just so good.
https://twitter.com/NBAonTNT/status/1582382245100146688?s=20&t=PDFQsBEQy0aL4K6dBe57_g
I think the overall versatility of Tatum is underrated. In fact I'm not so sure he and Brown aren't the best duo in the NBA. They are big, young, strong, can score inside and out, play on or off the ball, defend multiple positions, rebound, and they're experienced. They're aren't a lot of guys that can do all the things they can do on the floor. Remember, they're much better defenders than Doncic.
The NBA talent is spread around in a way that I don't think there is a clear top duo in the league. There isn't a James/Wade, Curry/Durant, or Magic/Kareem superstar pairing.
As for Tatum, I already factored his defense into my assessment. I also factored in his middling assist rate (20-22% the last two years) compared to Luka's assist rate north of 40%.
Tatum is a very good player, definitely top 10 in my opinion. But I think there are 6 players a step above him.
The latest update on the troubled James Bouknight, from the Charlotte Observer:
Additional details from police and court records about Charlotte Hornets guard James Bouknight’s arrest from Sunday show he was found unconscious in his car in an uptown parking deck, hit two police vehicles, and had a gun.
He was charged with driving while impaired, according to Mecklenburg County Sheriff’s Office arrest records. Two days later, in an interview with The Charlotte Observer after a team practice, Bouknight said he’s sorry for his actions: “Honestly, I just wanted to apologize for being a distraction before the start of the season, for my teammates and for what we’ve got going on.”
WSOC, The Charlotte Observer’s news partner, on Wednesday reported officers found Bouknight’s car was in drive at the time and officers said he hit two police vehicles. Citing court records, WSOC reported officers used a PA system, airhorns and lights in an attempt to wake him up.
According to the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police report, Bouknight was found just before 1 a.m. in a multi-story parking garage connected to apartments, a grocery store and the Stonewall Station light rail stop. Police radio communications, obtained from Broadcastify, indicate first responders from Medic, Charlotte Fire and CMPD attempted to rouse Bouknight and have him open the locked car.
When officers ran his car’s tag and ownership information, they learned Bouknight was the owner and that he had a pending concealed carry permit. Open carry is allowed under North Carolina law in cases where the gun is considered legal and the person is not banned from having a firearm.
WSOC reported: “Bouknight also told a paramedic at the scene that he had approximately four shots of tequila before driving home, according to court documents. A breathalyzer test later confirmed his blood alcohol content was a 0.14.”
The Charlotte Observer reported Monday that Bouknight had been released on a $2,500 bond. Sheriff’s records show the 22-year-old was arrested by CMPD just before 2 a.m. Sunday.
Already, Bouknight was expected to appear in court in North Carolina later this month for a previous violation. Bouknight has several pending charges in Cabarrus County from November, including speeding and reckless driving. He was cited for driving 107 mph in a 65 mph zone, public records show.
+++
Somebody please take away this guy's driver's license and impound his vehicles. He is a menace to society, at least on Charlotte's roads.
completely agree but unfortunately it depends on the DA and the judge. they've been letting out a lot worse for less than this.
I didn’t say lock him up and throw away the key. I said take away his driving privileges. And maybe get him some psychological help if deemed necessary.
So LaVine is out of the Bulls' game tonight for what he says is "load management". Really? Load management in game 1 of the season? Guess he put too much into the preseason and is going to rest for the regular season.
Are the Bulls starting to tank already?
That is bizarre....but the Bulls are up 8? In Miami?
Muggs you gotta pace yourself man. It’s the second night of the season.
That is bizarre....but the Bulls are up 8? In Miami?In fairness, LaVine made the playoffs for the first time ever so the extra five games last season will take a toll on anybody. Heck I think Ball reinjured just himself watching the playoffs.
In fairness, LaVine made the playoffs for the first time ever so the extra five games last season will take a toll on anybody. Heck I think Ball reinjured just himself watching the playoffs.
Luka >>>>>> Tatum.
Love what Luka does to the Suns. A true alpha against a team of betas that think they’re alphas.
completely agree but unfortunately it depends on the DA and the judge. they've been letting out a lot worse for less than this.
Suns figured out how to win. Have Chris Paul find the bench.
your intentions are good, but there needs to be consequences BEFORE he kills someone
Zion with a nice opening game. Tremendous power and quickness.
Simmons was apparently an unmitigated disaster. Nash said he was rusty.
So it’s been a quarter, aren’t we due a Muggsy over reaction?
So it’s been a quarter, aren’t we due a Muggsy over reaction?
Brutal half-court offense by Milwaukee. No idea what Budenholzer is doing and why Giannis is playing 35 feet from the rim. Inexcusable.
They're not playing with a full deck, Muggs. Having Middleton and Connaughton healthy changes everything for their offense with the space they create.
Helluva defensive effort tonight. They're gonna have to grind some games out this first month, but this was a really satisfying win.
And how about that Matthews guy?!
I missed most of the first half but clearly Holiday needs to shoot better.Inexcusable
I know that but they played an unusually bad 4th quarter. Holiday had a very rough game. But a win is a win so I'm probably overreacting.
I'm probably overreacting.
The fact that the Bucks won with Holiday going 2-15 is pretty amazing. I think Giannis is being a bit cautious with Middleton out to start the year. Ideally he should be more aggressive. I'd like to see him way more in the wide post in lieu of dribbling full court to start the offense.
The fact that the Bucks won with Holiday going 2-15 is pretty amazing. I think Giannis is being a bit cautious with Middleton out to start the year. Ideally he should be more aggressive. I'd like to see him way more in the wide post in lieu of dribbling full court to start the offense.
The bench came through, out scoring the Philly bench 29-13. 12-24 FG, 5-13 3FG, 60.4% eFG.
Brian Wardle
Reminds me of Diener.And by the transitive property, Kolek. Ergo, hire Kolek.
And by the transitive property, Kolek. Ergo, hire Kolek.BLASPHAMY!
This Sixers team has big time problems. Embiid & Harden together isn’t going to end well.
Morant apparently decided to drop 49 this evening in 31 mins (17-26/5-6 from 3).
He apparently decided to drop only 20 tonight as the Grizz lost by 1000 pts.
GIannis had 44 on 17-21 so it's not all bad.
How long will Doc last?
Rockets are terrible and had no one who could guard him.
I believe that New Orleans has the Lakers' pick in 2023? As constituted the Lakers will be lucky to make the play-in tournament.
The Pels have the right to swap picks with the Lakers in 2023 and then choose either their 2024 or 25 pick.
If they choose not to swap picks then they can do so in 2024 and 2025? Obviously they will swap immediately if Wemby is in play. :)
I believe that New Orleans has the Lakers' pick in 2023? As constituted the Lakers will be lucky to make the play-in tournament.
https://twitter.com/kirkgoldsberry/status/1584350355042680832?s=46&t=XskHbJOJqKbNxjnQ4UzlCw
You don’t go for a two for one there. There is a reason no one has shot a shot like this in four years.
A tie? Yes. But the better play here is to run it down. A miss gives Portland a shorter clock so you D it up.
No they can only swap this year if they want.
Then they can either get their ‘24 or ‘25 pick.
Did Bouknight not get suspended?
I've noticed that Johnny Davis hasn't played a single minute for Washington.
Also if what I saw was correct, in 5 pre-season games, he played a total of 67 minutes, scoring 10 points-------6 free throws and 2 baskets. I have seen some suggestion of an injury, but not much detail.
Technically no one still has, since more than 30 s were on the clock when he shot it.
Also, yeah, set the defense up that failed to stop Lilliard from drilling a 3 to take the lead. Then after it was tied up again, Lebron let Jerami Grant get an easy lay-up, playing defense like his feet were made out of lead.
They lost the game, because they played crap defense down the stretch...but let's blame Westbrook for taking a wide open shot.
They were up 102-95 with 2 minutes left and couldn't stop them on any possessions. Lost 106-104.
https://youtu.be/9N9-GrLzaZQ
I remember Rich Paul talking about how AD makes his teammates better in a way that Giannis does not after the Lakers won the Micky Mouse title. The dude has 3 assists in 3 games this year and I think he had the lowest 3 point percentage of any qualified shooter in the NBA last year. I loved that they had him guard Giannis one on one in the two Bucks/Lakers matchups last year because people consider him DPOY caliber. Giannis averaged something like 41 points on 86% shooting or something absurd. AD played years with Jrue in NO and the only time they won a Playoff series was when Jrue carried the team. Jrue then goes to the Bucks and wins a title year one, playing horrible offensively for a number of games in the Playoffs.
Great points. I think about 8/10 people think the "bubble title" is an asterisk title.
No one should think that.
Maybe Lebron doesn't play D anymore but the guy is still one of the best offensive players in the league. As constructed that team may win 40 games. Would they move Davis?
If LeBron and the Lakers didn’t win the championship in the Bubble, would anyone be making asterisk arguments?
The Lakers might have the worst roster in the NBA. Lebron will still get his stats, but he's not quite the dominant force he used to be. Anthony Davis is still solid. But after those two, just an absolute void of talent.
Lonnie Walker IV has probably been the third best Laker this season and I don't think he's a rotation player for any title contenders. Yikes!
Shams reporting Bucks are working on a deal to bring Jae Crowder to Milwaukee. Please make it so.
That would be awesome. But who would they have to give up?
If LeBron and the Lakers didn’t win the championship in the Bubble, would anyone be making asterisk arguments?
I think Grayson Allen would be involved.
That would be awesome. But who would they have to give up?
That would be awesome. But who would they have to give up?
Allen is the rumor. He's an adequate bench player, but his defense is really lacking and he just vanished in the playoffs last year after the Chicago series.
If I knew Ingles was healthy and good I’d give up Allen for Crowder. But as it is that makes the shooting worse on the Bucks, and shooting is they key. The Bucks got smoked from behind the ark in the C’s series. Yes, Allen stunk offensively and defensively in that series. But he was being asked to play a much bigger role than he’s needed to when the roster is healthy. He’s very good for what he needs to be, and with the addition of Ingles there’s more options if teams are attacking him defensively. If Middleton stays healthy last year, there’s a very good chance Grayson is a solid contributor for a title team.
Also, they want a guy who can “shut down” players like KD come Playoff time like PJ Tucker did. KD had a historically great scoring series against the Bucks. Nobody really shuts those guys down.
Regarding the Mickey Mouse title, it’s still a title, but just look at the teams that advanced and how they shot the ball. Jimmy, Jae, Duncan all shot WAY over their heads in the bubble compared to their career numbers. Same with Rondo and AD with the Lakers. It was very different there.
If I knew Ingles was healthy and good I’d give up Allen for Crowder. But as it is that makes the shooting worse on the Bucks, and shooting is they key. The Bucks got smoked from behind the ark in the C’s series. Yes, Allen stunk offensively and defensively in that series. But he was being asked to play a much bigger role than he’s needed to when the roster is healthy. He’s very good for what he needs to be, and with the addition of Ingles there’s more options if teams are attacking him defensively. If Middleton stays healthy last year, there’s a very good chance Grayson is a solid contributor for a title team.
Also, they want a guy who can “shut down” players like KD come Playoff time like PJ Tucker did. KD had a historically great scoring series against the Bucks. Nobody really shuts those guys down.
Regarding the Mickey Mouse title, it’s still a title, but just look at the teams that advanced and how they shot the ball. Jimmy, Jae, Duncan all shot WAY over their heads in the bubble compared to their career numbers. Same with Rondo and AD with the Lakers. It was very different there.
I'd make that trade in a second. With Jae you get a guy who can guard on the perimeter, who hustles and hit an occasional shot. He slides nicely into the PJ Tucker role from two seasons ago. With Connaughton, Middleton, Holiday, Lopez, and even an occasional Portis, they have plenty of guys who can hit threes.
Allen is the rumor. He's an adequate bench player, but his defense is really lacking and he just vanished in the playoffs last year after the Chicago series.
Brew, here is a comment from Eric Nehn who coves the Bucks for The Athletic:
Moving Allen, which appears to absolutely necessary in a deal for Crowder from a contract perspective, would take one of the Bucks’ best shooters off the roster and add a player that is instead an average shooter. While some might question Allen’s status as an elite 3-point shooter after attempting only 24 3s in seven games against the Celtics and making just 20.8 percent of those attempts, the criticism itself provides the answer. Allen struggled in that series because the Celtics viewed him as a threat. They chased him around screens and actively ran him off the 3-point line because they knew he could hurt them.
While Crowder has certainly had strong shooting performances in playoff series, teams don’t seem to care whether or not he takes 3-pointers. When Giannis Antetokounmpo is one of your primary creators, this can be a major problem. Every inch of space a defense uses to guard an elite shooter is exponentially more important in Milwaukee because those inches widen gaps for Antetokounmpo to puncture and weaken the overall strength of the wall trying to keep him from the rim.
I tend to agree with this, but it would certainly depend on the Playoff opponent. Jae could be more valuable against certain teams. It is strange though, that the Suns want no part of him even when he is still under contract..
Brew, here is a comment from Eric Nehn who coves the Bucks for The Athletic:
Moving Allen, which appears to absolutely necessary in a deal for Crowder from a contract perspective, would take one of the Bucks’ best shooters off the roster and add a player that is instead an average shooter. While some might question Allen’s status as an elite 3-point shooter after attempting only 24 3s in seven games against the Celtics and making just 20.8 percent of those attempts, the criticism itself provides the answer. Allen struggled in that series because the Celtics viewed him as a threat. They chased him around screens and actively ran him off the 3-point line because they knew he could hurt them.
While Crowder has certainly had strong shooting performances in playoff series, teams don’t seem to care whether or not he takes 3-pointers. When Giannis Antetokounmpo is one of your primary creators, this can be a major problem. Every inch of space a defense uses to guard an elite shooter is exponentially more important in Milwaukee because those inches widen gaps for Antetokounmpo to puncture and weaken the overall strength of the wall trying to keep him from the rim.
I tend to agree with this, but it would certainly depend on the Playoff opponent. Jae could be more valuable against certain teams. It is strange though, that the Suns want no part of him even when he is still under contract..
I feel like you of all people should not stand for such Juan Toscano Anderson slander.
The best basketball player in the world took the Nets behind the woodshed in the fourth quarter.
Did Antetokounmpo have 33 in the 2nd half?
34
SImmons is kind of a black hole offensively. He basically can only score two feet fron the rim and in transition.
SImmons is kind of a black hole offensively. He basically can only score two feet fron the rim and in transition.
Portland is going to be a really fun team to watch. The ideal Buzz team - full of switchables.
Dame is still Dame and Shaedon Sharpe is gonna be a star in this league once he gets a couple years under his belt.
I'll believe in Portland when they show something for more than a week. Lillard and CJ are more effective players now that they aren't sharing a backcourt, but Lillard has always been more entertaining than successful.
I can't see them finishing better than 6th in the West or making it out of the first round.
I'll believe in Portland when they show something for more than a week. Lillard and CJ are more effective players now that they aren't sharing a backcourt, but Lillard has always been more entertaining than successful.
I can't see them finishing better than 6th in the West or making it out of the first round.
Lost in Antetokounmpo's dominance, and attacking power game, is that Holiday and Grayson Allen have been utterly brutal on the offensive end shooting the basketball. 33% and 24%?? WTF? On open shots? They need to wake up.
Trade him
I wonder if Wemby could become sort of a Giannis/Durant combo?
I wonder if Wemby could become sort of a Giannis/Durant combo?
He will never be Giannis-like. His game will never be overpowering and physically outmatching people. Durant comps are valid given his build and shooting ability for his size. Giannis is broad and had the frame to put on serious size even when he was a slender 18 year old. Wemby doesn't have that, just like Holmgren doesnt.
https://twitter.com/DevInTheLab/status/1585733742101831680?t=kNYjAyPegHvvH221s11NNA&s=01
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1585783737786277888?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Trade is going well for both sides so far!
Things could get pretty ugly in Brooklyn. This is a team with significant problems that go well beyond Ben Simmons. I'm not sure Nash will make it through this season.
They have no Alpha.
They are a team that could really use a guy like Jae. He would only be the 4th or 5th best player, but they could really use his toughness.
Huge half for Jimmy B. 20, 4, 4, and 3 thefts with zero turns.
Not going way out on a limb here, but Luka will win MVP this year.
Giannis, Luka, and Ja may now be the Top 3 players in the NBA. Of course Jokic may have something to say about that.
Things could get pretty ugly in Brooklyn. This is a team with significant problems that go well beyond Ben Simmons. I'm not sure Nash will make it through this season.
Lost in Antetokounmpo's dominance, and attacking power game, is that Holiday and Grayson Allen have been utterly brutal on the offensive end shooting the basketball. 33% and 24%?? WTF? On open shots? They need to wake up.
Giannis is the best overall player in the association. When you start comparing Doncic, Morant, and Jokic it gets really tough. Doncic is ridiculously skilled and enormous for a lead guard. Jokic is tremendously underrated as an athlete. The guy can do everything and may have the pieces around him this season. Morant is without question the most electric player we have seen since Dwyane. The guy has a different gear and has improved his jump shot a lot. It's really tough but I would probably go: Giannis, Jokic, Curry, Tatum, Morant, Doncic as my super 6.Not to sound xenophobic, but the Top 4 players in the NBA are not from the United States (Giannis-Greece, Doncic-Slovenia, Jokic-Serbia, Morant-Mars)
Not to sound xenophobic, but the Top 4 players in the NBA are not from the United States (Giannis-Greece, Doncic-Slovenia, Jokic-Serbia, Morant-Mars)
Not to sound xenophobic, but the Top 4 players in the NBA are not from the United States (Giannis-Greece, Doncic-Slovenia, Jokic-Serbia, Morant-Mars)
Not to sound xenophobic, but the Top 4 players in the NBA are not from the United States (Giannis-Greece, Doncic-Slovenia, Jokic-Serbia, Morant-Mars)
I was thinking the same thing about the top players (add Embid to the list at #5, and he's from Cameroon). This was Stern's vision, to make the NBA a truly worldwide league. I don't think the game is better today than it was in the 80s (too many threes and a lack of D), but the skill and overall athleticism are better.
I was thinking the same thing about the top players (add Embid to the list at #5, and he's from Cameroon). This was Stern's vision, to make the NBA a truly worldwide league. I don't think the game is better today than it was in the 80s (too many threes and a lack of D), but the skill and overall athleticism are better.
Anybody who thinks there is a lack of D now compared to the 1980s didn't watch a lot of basketball in the 1980s.
ben simmons seems to be severely over-rated, not very good or rusty and not a good fit with the nets. surely not worth the $35 million/year contract
ben simmons seems to be severely over-rated, not very good or rusty and not a good fit with the nets. surely not worth the $35 million/year contract
I was thinking the same thing about the top players (add Embid to the list at #5, and he's from Cameroon). This was Stern's vision, to make the NBA a truly worldwide league. I don't think the game is better today than it was in the 80s (too many threes and a lack of D), but the skill and overall athleticism are better.
Other than the Pistons, defense wasn't emphasized until the playoffs. After the Pistons' run, the early to mid 90's saw the real uptick in physicality and playoff games finishing in the 70's.
Lakers are 0-4 against the spread and 0-4 on the year.
Some good value in taking them vs Minny tonight.
Yeah but I struggle to call that “good defense” like now. Freedom of movement is a thing now.
Ah yes, spoken from experience. Remembers watching the game in the 80s, but too young to remember MU as the Warriors.
MU wasn’t a thing to me until I applied after the name had been changed, why would I? Now, the Bad Boys Pistons….
And then the 90’s Knicks and 2004 Pistons.
1982 Oldsmobile Fiernza. A white hatchback. 50,000 miles. Purchased in 1992 for $2000.
1. But that is what a lot of us call good defense. There used to be a lot more physicality both on ball (hand-checks/steering), and off ball. It was part of the game for a long time, and removed for "freedom of movement" to create a more exciting and higher scoring game.
2. It might be that I don't remember it much, because you couldn't watch as many regular season games (only 2-3 channels) in the 80's, so much of what I remember is playoffs. But there is a lot more just standing and doing nothing, not even trying to get back on D, than I remember.
The latter could also be, because I've watched the Lakers a bunch this year and man, is there no effort on D at all by several of them.
Lakers and Magic would be my two best plays if I were gambling tonight.
The "physicality" removed added little to the game, IMO. You want to watch body checks and clogged lanes with low scoring, watch mediocre HS basketball. It doesn't even have to be run and gun 130 points a game Warriors offense, any good motion offense, even a Princeton style offense by teams that don't score a ton of points, is negatively impacted by hand checking and grabbing and "bodying" up people.
That being removed, "good" defense looks different. Why waste the energy getting 18 inches from your man when they are athletic enough to slip by you on a cut, when you can understand spacing and passing lanes and intercept passes or deflect/angle in space.
I'm not accusing you of this, but some people that watched chest to chest defense in the 70s/80s can't fathom how you play good defense when you aren't running around constantly or in somebody's grill for 48 min.
The "physicality" removed added little to the game, IMO. You want to watch body checks and clogged lanes with low scoring, watch mediocre HS basketball. It doesn't even have to be run and gun 130 points a game Warriors offense, any good motion offense, even a Princeton style offense by teams that don't score a ton of points, is negatively impacted by hand checking and grabbing and "bodying" up people.
That being removed, "good" defense looks different. Why waste the energy getting 18 inches from your man when they are athletic enough to slip by you on a cut, when you can understand spacing and passing lanes and intercept passes or deflect/angle in space.
I'm not accusing you of this, but some people that watched chest to chest defense in the 70s/80s can't fathom how you play good defense when you aren't running around constantly or in somebody's grill for 48 min.
The game was vastly different in the '80s and into the '90s. Big men ruled, and mid-range jumpers were the norm. The 3-pointer was still relatively rarely deployed, and certainly not as a primary weapon. Everything was different. Not necessarily "better" or "worse," but very different.
The greats of that era still would be great today, and the greats today would have flourished back then IMHO.
It was worse. Much less free flowing. The iso ball resulting from mandatory man to man defense? Awful...
And yes the greats from then would be fine today. The role players from back then would be hanging out in the G-League however.
The game was vastly different in the '80s and into the '90s. Big men ruled, and mid-range jumpers were the norm. The 3-pointer was still relatively rarely deployed, and certainly not as a primary weapon. Everything was different. Not necessarily "better" or "worse," but very different.
The greats of that era still would be great today, and the greats today would have flourished back then IMHO.
It has honestly been pretty cool watching how the next generation of players (particularly big men) have adapted their game, similarly guys like Curry who have changed how the game is played.
Yes, zones were "illegal defenses," but nearly all the teams played zone principles, e.g. 1-2-2 trap, and sometimes outright zones that just weren't officiated.
Yeah that’s just not an accurate statement.
If you were the GM of the Lakers what would you do? It seems to me they have very few options. They may be the worst team in the league, consider how incredible that is? They are paying three guys about 130M this season. Also, if they do make the lottery NOLA gets their pick. Is there any team that actually wants Westbrook because of his expiring contract? Davis has three more years on his deal... is he worth rolling the dice for a semi contender?
If you were the GM of the Lakers what would you do? It seems to me they have very few options. They may be the worst team in the league, consider how incredible that is? They are paying three guys about 130M this season. Also, if they do make the lottery NOLA gets their pick. Is there any team that actually wants Westbrook because of his expiring contract? Davis has three more years on his deal... is he worth rolling the dice for a semi contender?
I'd try to trade Lebron for 3 point shooters.
Not sure if this was in jest, but Lakers cannot trade him due to his contract (it forbids it)
The Lakers have sold their future for LeBron. Maybe the strategy was sound but the execution was awful. The Lakers have done everything for LeBron, maybe more than any team ever, and now he is claiming he is "taken for granted".
As awesome as LeBron is and as someone who does great things off the court, he keeps shooting his perception in the foot with PR fails.
The Lakers have not been run well lately, I believe 2 playoffs in the past 10 years; but they have a championship. Maybe the NBA will bail them out and force the Bucks to trade Giannis to them for a bag of used balls like they did with Pau Gasol.
The Lakers have sold their future for LeBron. Maybe the strategy was sound but the execution was awful. The Lakers have done everything for LeBron, maybe more than any team ever, and now he is claiming he is "taken for granted".
As awesome as LeBron is and as someone who does great things off the court, he keeps shooting his perception in the foot with PR fails.
The Lakers have not been run well lately, I believe 2 playoffs in the past 10 years; but they have a championship. Maybe the NBA will bail them out and force the Bucks to trade Giannis to them for a bag of used balls like they did with Pau Gasol.
Kyrie with another wtf situation. Does he still believe the world is flat and dinosaurs didn't exist?
Yes, he's a stupid person.
If you’re Portland do you do Shaedon Sharpe and picks for three years of KD? I think you do to get that last hurrah with Dame.
Irving is a self-proclaimed “free thinker”.
I think he meant that he is a "thought-free thinker"?
He's not stupid. Just an arrogant, certifiable, idiot, aina?
Josh Primo did not do a great job of getting ahead of the narrative.
It’s open season on the Jewish religion. Kyrie and Kanye are just the latest to pile on.
One of these days, Jews are gonna get pissed and blast all these famously anti-Semitic jocks, entertainers and politicians with their space laser.
It’s open season on the Jewish religion. Kyrie and Kanye are just the latest to pile on.
One of these days, Jews are gonna get pissed and blast all these famously anti-Semitic jocks, entertainers and politicians with their space laser.
Where is Adam Silver? Didn't Myers Leonard get suspended for his belittling remarks about Jews while he was playing a video game? Ye has a history of anti-semitic drivel. I think Kyrie is confused about his overall influence.....and a lot of other things in general.. Don't worry about these guys MU82.
Muggs, I'm not worried about those guys, and other individuals, per se. I'm worried that the people we're talking about are "influencers" and/or icons in their fields who are followed by millions.
Anti-Semitism never really went anywhere, but it's back with a fury in the United States. 5 years ago, Nazis took over Charlottesville and chanted, "Jews will not replace us." Things have only gotten worse since then, as many of our "leaders" have proclaimed that America is a "white Christian nation" and tolerance of others is at a multi-decade low.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/10/27/antisemitism-kanye-trump-adidas-jews/
Longtime watchdogs of antisemitism say there is nothing new about the kinds of derogatory comments about Jews that the rapper Ye, formerly known as Kanye West, former president Donald Trump, sundry far-right political candidates and others have made in recent weeks.
But what has struck some experts is how blatant the comments about Jews are at a time when incidents of harassment, vandalism and violence against them have been at their highest levels since at least the 1970s. Recent data already showed that a majority of American Jews fear violence against them.
“Empirically, something is different. The level of public animosity towards Jews is higher than it’s been in recent memory,” Jonathan Greenblatt, CEO of the Anti-Defamation League, said in an interview.
Experts said the climate is the product of a stew of forces including a digital culture that spreads misinformation and hate and right-wing political forces focused on protecting White Christians’ status. Some said current antisemitism is also aggravated by more people downplaying it as merely an interreligious issue instead of a dangerous form of racism; in the past majorities from Germany to America made clear they saw Jews as a distinct and inferior race.
To survivors of even the deadliest attack on Jews in U.S. history — the 2018 massacre at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh — the most urgent worry is that the event, which left 11 dead and at least six wounded, is already fading from public consciousness, crowded out by the dozens of mass shootings that followed.
This is the NBA thread, so that's all I'll have to say here. If we want to continue this conversation, it should have its own thread.
My next post here will attempt to get back to the subject at hand.
Well, you're totally right. Ye does have influence and antisemitism is definitely as bad as we have seen worldwide for many years. I'm just surprised Adam Silver hasn't said anything. Anyway, back to NBA hoops. I think the Bucks should try to snag Clarkson or Beasley from Utah.
The Nets are almost as big of a disaster as the Lakers. And the funny thing is Kyrie has actually looked really good. SImmons isn't simply "rusty". He's a shell of what he used to be and he was flawed before. Now maybe he finds his game but he's not close to a 35m a year guy. That team plays no defense, especially protecting the paint.
Utah has a really interesting situation. Obviously it's early but they are 5-2 and actually have a few ballers on that roster. If Ainge truly wants to tank he's probably going to have to get rid of a few guys.
The Bucks will make a move at the deadline, but they’re looking pretty dang strong right now.
I think they've played 4/5 home games. Their offense has been pretty sporadic and mediocre when I've watched them.
Their FGP's are quite low. Obviously Middleton will help but Holiday needs to be more consistent shooting the rock. Allen has not impressed me, perhaps Ingjes will help. But if they can get a proven shooter and scorer at the 2G, in lieu of Allen, I make that deal. It could bring them to a dominant level imo.
I think they've played 4/5 home games. Their offense has been pretty sporadic and mediocre when I've watched them.
Their FGP's are quite low. Obviously Middleton will help but Holiday needs to be more consistent shooting the rock. Allen has not impressed me, perhaps Ingjes will help. But if they can get a proven shooter and scorer at the 2G, in lieu of Allen, I make that deal. It could bring them to a dominant level imo.
They both have the same fundamental problems. They each have two ball dominant stars, who need the ball in their hands constantly to play their game.
For whatever reason that possessed people in charge, they paired those two ball dominant stars with a 3rd star who is a non-scoring, poor shooting, ball dominant facilitator.
None of whom really care about defense (I actually think Kyrie and Durant put in considerably more effort on defense than Lebron and Westbrook).
It is a horrible setup for a team.
The Nets have Curry coming back, which should help matters, as he can help spread the court for Kyrie and Durant. But the biggest problem is the mentality and style of play of the central stars.
They both have the same fundamental problems. They each have two ball dominant stars, who need the ball in their hands constantly to play their game.
For whatever reason that possessed people in charge, they paired those two ball dominant stars with a 3rd star who is a non-scoring, poor shooting, ball dominant facilitator.
None of whom really care about defense (I actually think Kyrie and Durant put in considerably more effort on defense than Lebron and Westbrook).
It is a horrible setup for a team.
The Nets have Curry coming back, which should help matters, as he can help spread the court for Kyrie and Durant. But the biggest problem is the mentality and style of play of the central stars.
They’re down 3 of their top 4 options at the 2/3 right now (and 3 of their top 4 perimeter shooters) and they’re still looking very good. Their lineup flexibility when those three get healthy is pretty outstanding.
They’re down 3 of their top 4 options at the 2/3 right now (and 3 of their top 4 perimeter shooters) and they’re still looking very good. Their lineup flexibility when those three get healthy is pretty outstanding.
Oh, I forgot about Connaughton. When are he, Middleton, and Ingles supposed to be back? Ingles at one time was a pretty good overall player, not just a shooter. It just annoys me that Allen can't make wide open shots. He has one job.
He was great when Middleton was healthy last year. I have confidence he’ll shoot the lights out when he’s offensive option 5 as opposed to 3. He also puts the ball on the deck better than he gets credit for.
Pat and Khris should be back in the next couple weeks. Ingles should be back sometime in January.
Perhaps I should be more patient.
This Cavs team is really fun to watch...they're definitely making me feel better about Bally's ridiculous $20/month price tag to be able to watch the games.* So far, Mitchell is lot better than I realized. It'll be fun to see how they play when Garland returns...hopefully before too long.
*Bally made it up to me a little bit by offering 50% off tickets to this Wednesday's games with no online fees (even though this was open to everyone...not just subscribers). That savings will pay for our subscription for about 50% of the season.
I don't see the price as a problem. I can watch Bucks and Brewers all year for the same cost as going to one Bucks game.
They both have the same fundamental problems. They each have two ball dominant stars, who need the ball in their hands constantly to play their game.
For whatever reason that possessed people in charge, they paired those two ball dominant stars with a 3rd star who is a non-scoring, poor shooting, ball dominant facilitator.
None of whom really care about defense (I actually think Kyrie and Durant put in considerably more effort on defense than Lebron and Westbrook).
It is a horrible setup for a team.
The Nets have Curry coming back, which should help matters, as he can help spread the court for Kyrie and Durant. But the biggest problem is the mentality and style of play of the central stars.
I see the Clippers are 2-4. I thought Kawhi was ready to go?
I don't see the price as a problem. I can watch Bucks and Brewers all year for the same cost as going to one Bucks game.
I would find it less ridiculous if it had the Guardians...but it doesn't. I'm just comparing it to other streaming services that offer a lot more content for a lot less money. I happen to think that it's worth it (roughly $1.25/game), but I still think it's a little ridiculous.
It’s really early, but amusing that 2 of the main contenders to tank for Wemby and Scoot, the Jazz and the Spurs, are 6-2 and 5-2 respectively, to start the season.
It’s really early, but amusing that 2 of the main contenders to tank for Wemby and Scoot, the Jazz and the Spurs, are 6-2 and 5-2 respectively, to start the season.
Woj is reporting that Steve Nash has been fired.
Woj is reporting that Steve Nash has been fired.
KD finally wins something as a Brooklyn Net!
Whoa
@ShamsCharania
The Brooklyn Nets plan to hire Ime Udoka as their new head coach, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Boston granted the Nets permission to speak to Udoka and will allow him to leave freely, sources said.
Whoa
@ShamsCharania
The Brooklyn Nets plan to hire Ime Udoka as their new head coach, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Boston granted the Nets permission to speak to Udoka and will allow him to leave freely, sources said.
I wonder if all of those people here who attack GM LeBron will now attack GM Durant.
LeBron certainly has more cred than Durant.
Didn't even take an hour for the C's to start leaking more details lol.
Nets might as well sign Primo.
Nets trying to rack up the most toxic personalities in the NBA like Infinity Stones. Bold move Cotton, let's see if it works out for them
Woj is reporting that Steve Nash has been fired.
You're always shocked when a move like this happens," Durant said after a 108-99 loss to the Chicago Bulls on Tuesday night. "But it's normal in the NBA. It's about getting ready for the game tonight. It's a quick turn always in the league, especially during the season. You've got practice, games coming up, so you can't think too much about it. It was on my mind for a little bit today.(https://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/thumbs/2020/11/22/120750/86460733/hotdog-fixed.jpg)
Nets trying to rack up the most toxic personalities in the NBA like Infinity Stones. Bold move Cotton, let's see if it works out for them
Why? Barring injury, who in the East is going to be better?
Boston and Cleveland. We'll see how they look with Middleton but they're not shooting the ball well at all. Hopefully Connaughton and Ingles help.
By John Amato — November 2, 2022
During Monday night's game, the four hosts on TNT's NBA show blasted Kyrie Irving's anti-Semitism, as well as the NBA for failing to do anything about it.
Ernie Johnson opened by bashing Irving for claiming he wasn't promoting anti-Semitism by tweeting a link to the 2018 movie “Hebrews to Negroes: Wake Up Black America.” to millions of his followers.
"He keeps making a big thing out of the word promotion, that is promotion.' Johnson said.
"I could tell he's not conscious, He doesn't really care what's going on. We have to answer what this idiot has done," Shaq O'Neil said.
Charles Barkley crucified Irving and the NBA as well.
"I think the NBA dropped the ball, I think he should have been suspended. I think Adam [Silver, the NBA commissioner] should have suspended him,” Barkley said.
I said the same thing when I wrote about Irving defending his indefensible behavior a few days ago.
“First of all, Adam is Jewish. You can’t take my $40 million [Irving’s salary] and insult my religion. You’re going to insult me, you have the right, but I have the right to say no. You’re not going to take my $40 million and insult my religion. I think the NBA, they have made a mistake.” Barkley said.
The NBA fined players for making homophobic slurs
Irving also promoted sicko Alex Jones and his "secret cabal ruling the world" crap.
"Him acknowledging the Alex Jones thing, something should have happened with that too, ’cause that dude’s crazy and...I can’t believe we ain’t talking about basketball — we talking about this idiot.”
During the broadcast, former NBA star Reggie Miller did not hold back on the players' silence either.
"The players have dropped the ball on this case when it’s been one of their own,” Miller said during the Nets vs Bulls game.
“It’s been crickets.”
“You can’t go silent in terms of this for Kyrie Irving,” Miller pleaded. “I want to hear the players and their strong opinions as well, just as we heard about Robert Sarver and Donald Sterling.”
Irving is a disgrace.
He elevated himself to the anti-vax crowd for refusing to get vaccinated, which kept him from playing in any Nets home games. This, of course, increased his political online presence.
Irving is a rich, One World Fool and anti-Semite.
It's not too late to suspend him from the game of basketball.
I have a tough time getting too worked up about a game in November when we are missing some of our best shooters. Especially in a game the Bucks are fairly comfortably ahead.
I hear you cheebs. But the Bucks haven't really played anyone and have had 6 of 7 at Fiserv. Statistically they are awful from distance and when I have watched we're talking wide open looks from so-called spot shooters. Hopefully it's just a slump, and Middleton and others will help, but they will not beat the elite teams in the playoffs if they go brick city from downtown.
Is he an anti-Semite? I'm not sure why Wags or others would think otherwise. He willingly made an anti-Semitic post ... and, just in case it was only done only out of ignorance, he doubled-down even after the anti-Semitism in his post was pointed out to him.
Because he is a stupid person who thinks he is smart. Very easily manipulated and hates to be embarrassed. Know anyone else like that? At this point he is just a snapshot of a large portion of the US population. Media literacy is the number one problem affecting our populace, and Kyrie is the poster boy.
Because he is a stupid person who thinks he is smart. Very easily manipulated and hates to be embarrassed. Know anyone else like that? At this point he is just a snapshot of a large portion of the US population. Media literacy is the number one problem affecting our populace, and Kyrie is the poster boy.
From the Raleigh News-Observer:Kind of like how you and Rico are against all evangelical Christians.
Jon Scheyer has built a solid relationship with Brooklyn Nets guard Kyrie Irving since the latter replaced him as Duke’s starting point guard 12 years ago. So Scheyer intends to talk with Irving about his recent actions on social media, which have appeared to sympathize with antisemitism.
“I’ve known Kyrie for a long time, and I’ve had nothing but incredible interactions with him,” Scheyer, in his first year as Duke’s basketball coach, said Wednesday night. “For me, it’s less about Kyrie. It’s more just about what’s happening all across our country, right? I mean, you see things in the news and it’s concerning. Antisemitism of any kind, is horrible and wrong and unacceptable.”
Irving came out with a PR stunt yesterday, pledging to donate about one game check to "fight hate." But he didn't apologize for his overtly anti-Semitic post, and he won't because he thinks it was just hunky-dory.
Is he an anti-Semite? I'm not sure why Wags or others would think otherwise. He willingly made an anti-Semitic post ... and, just in case it was only done only out of ignorance, he doubled-down even after the anti-Semitism in his post was pointed out to him.
Isn't "media literacy" an oxymoron?
This is exactly where I come out here.
Of course, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be treated like an anti-Semite. When someone says offensive ish, we don't have a duty to "see whats in his heart" or whatever other bullcrap people like to say. All the more because he isn't exactly falling all over himself with apology. (Not saying Hards or Wags were suggesting any different treatment for him, just adding an additional two cents.)
This is exactly where I come out here.
Of course, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be treated like an anti-Semite. When someone says offensive ish, we don't have a duty to "see whats in his heart" or whatever other bullcrap people like to say. All the more because he isn't exactly falling all over himself with apology. (Not saying Hards or Wags were suggesting any different treatment for him, just adding an additional two cents.)
Because he is a stupid person who thinks he is smart. Very easily manipulated and hates to be embarrassed. Know anyone else like that? At this point he is just a snapshot of a large portion of the US population. Media literacy is the number one problem affecting our populace, and Kyrie is the poster boy.
This is exactly where I come out here.
Of course, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be treated like an anti-Semite. When someone says offensive ish, we don't have a duty to "see whats in his heart" or whatever other bullcrap people like to say. All the more because he isn't exactly falling all over himself with apology. (Not saying Hards or Wags were suggesting any different treatment for him, just adding an additional two cents.)
My take is that in his heart he absolutely thinks he's not antisemitic, but that he clearly is. Worse is that he knows a lot of people that agree with him and that reinforces his prejudice. I give props to TNT but the fact is very few players have condemned what Kyrie posted. This is the most troubling part of this whole conversation imo.
They're basketball players. We shouldn't be expecting them to be any more knowledgeable than the average American. Remember, many of these guys never finished college.
They're basketball players. We shouldn't be expecting them to be any more knowledgeable than the average American.
So in order not to be antisemitic, or racist, or homophobic, or misogynistic, etc, etc, etc, you need to "finish college"? This is compete nonsense.
Kind of like how you and Rico are against all evangelical Christians.
Thats not what he meant/his point. He was citing the often lacking intelligence or, more often, stunted intellectual/knowledge growth of many of these athletes. Leading to short term thinking, not looking at the entire picture, etc... Critical thinking isn't a strength for many of them.
A poorly educated white person, who isn't at all racist, might see absolutely no issue with using N***a cause they hear it in songs. Or why a tweet with that lyric isn't a problem.
Why stereotype "basketball players"? There are plenty of highly educated people that are prejudicial, racist, and antisemitic. There have been Holocaust deniers teaching at Universities such as Northwestern. Compared to the average person NBA basketball players should be more worldly with their resources and travel across the globe. He plays for a team that resides literally in the most diverse spot in our entire country. Taking classes in college, and getting a degree, is a pretty minor component of one's actual education and very nuanced. And diversity of thought is at its all-time low at our colleges and universities.
And diversity of thought is at its all-time low at our colleges and universities.
I have never said that.that was to mu82
Rico and I are nowhere even close on our opinions about a belief in God. And since I (and Rico) actually believe in the Constitution, that is fine.
Untrue political statement.Agreed. Colleges and universities have never been places of diverse opinions and thoughts. No different today than 100 years ago or more.
that was to mu82
Then I would say that I think morality and decency are much more important to MU82 that they are to Evangelicals.And I would say it is not very ethical or moral to paint everyone practicing one religion with a broad brush.
Not nearly long enough, hey?
Weird because the NBA is usually more on top of these things. They can “read the room.” This seemed to catch them off guard and only responded after people said “WTF?”
Ya....this seems like something they thought would just go away. Which is bizarre in itself. As far as I know Silver hasn't publicly said anything.
He did today, but yeah, it took an unusually long time.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34939644/commissioner-adam-silver-disappointed-kyrie-irving-apologize
Kind of like how you and Rico are against all evangelical Christians.
Unk is very good at speaking for himself, but please provide proof that I am “against all evangelical Christians.”Look in the Jerry Lewis thread
Thanks!
Really disappointed in Silver. Thought he had the stones to crack the whip, particularly after the Sterling debacle and the quick, decisive action he took there. But, he's likely just another money whore letting the inmates run the asylum, hey?
Always a great phrase to use.
Always a great phrase to use.
Somewhat lost in this discussion is that Amazon is still selling the book and movie Kyrie pimped and apparently sales are blowing up. I also heard that the FBI is saying there have been credible threats against New Jersey Synagogues.
Amazon also sells Mein Kampf. Banning the material only drives it underground, and reduces the discussion around the merits of the material.
Keep it in the light and continue to deride the content.
Always a great phrase to use.For the record, I'm offended today is Friday.
For the record, I'm offended today is Friday.
I'm very happy today is Friday.Fascist, MAGA lover.
The Nets have suspended Kyrie for 5 games.Why can't we do the same for politicians?
Look in the Jerry Lewis thread
Rico joked: "Lived the dream of most evangelical Christians by marrying his underage cousin, having two kids with her and then divorcing her and getting married two more times."Yes. that is considered hate speech and defamatory. But feel free to make fun of other religious groups.
I responded: "Amen."
That is your proof that I am “against all evangelical Christians," counselor?
Well then ... you saying that is proof that you are against all Jews who attended Marquette, obviously.
Yes. that is considered hate speech and defamatory. But feel free to make fun of other religious groups.
Anyhoo, putting the NBA back into the NBA Thread ...
The Warriors are flat-out lousy. On this road trip, they've lost to the Hornets and Magic, among others. Steve Kerr is at wit's end. Obviously, they miss Juan!
Riiiight. You made an accusation, you were wrong. It happens.Actually, you are wrong. You are the one who agreed with a bigot. That makes you a bigot.
But I will look forward to you calling out every instance of what you perceive to be "hate speech" on this forum from now on. I'll have to get that popcorn-eating gif handy for when you do.
Actually, you are wrong. You are the one who agreed with a bigot. That makes you a bigot.
What's the difference between an atheist and an evangelical Christian?
The atheist is honest about not following the teachings of Christ.
Amazon also sells Mein Kampf. Banning the material only drives it underground, and reduces the discussion around the merits of the material.
Keep it in the light and continue to deride the content.
Watching the Bucks. It doesn't seem to me that Nwora adds much on either end of the floor.
He’s horrendous. The good thing is he’ll never play come Playoff time.
I was just confused to see him play 7 straight minutes.
You seem to forget 3 of their top 5 options at the 2/3 are out with injury a lot.
Wolves stink
Anyhoo, putting the NBA back into the NBA Thread ...
The Warriors are flat-out lousy. On this road trip, they've lost to the Hornets and Magic, among others. Steve Kerr is at wit's end. Obviously, they miss Juan!
I thought they were supposed to be decent?
About time! The push back has to be loud and clear, especially from American Jews, hey?
Nads,
I've never wavered from this my entire life. But, until Jews, themselves, rise up and push back, nothing will change, nothing. That also means not supporting known anti-Semitic politicians, like the squad and Barnes, hey?
Nads,
I've never wavered from this my entire life. But, until Jews, themselves, rise up and push back, nothing will change, nothing. That also means not supporting known anti-Semitic politicians, like the squad and Barnes, hey?
Actually, I disagree with your assessment of Trump as an anti-Semite. His history is quite the opposite. You should study it, hey?
Well Petrocelli, give me an example of his anti-semitism, hey?
Actually, I disagree with your assessment of Trump as an anti-Semite. His history is quite the opposite. You should study it, hey?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-truth-social-post-us-jewsI think Trump is a clown but I don't think that story proved your point.
I think Trump is a clown but I don't think that story proved your point.
Nads,
I've never wavered from this my entire life. But, until Jews, themselves, rise up and push back, nothing will change, nothing. That also means not supporting known anti-Semitic politicians, like the squad and Barnes, hey?
The Nets hired Vaughn, not Udoka.Just heard on the radio; Nets with Irving #30 defense, without Irving #1 defense. Oof!
Just heard on the radio; Nets with Irving #30 defense, without Irving #1 defense. Oof!
Are Holiday and Antetokounmpo hurt? I see that both are not playing tonight? What gives?
Are Holiday and Antetokounmpo hurt? I see that both are not playing tonight? What gives?
Holiday twisted his ankle Monday, Giannis sits out road games against garbage teams a lot. Officially a “sore knee.”
Current day Serge might be the worst defender to ever play. He plays the drop coverage in a way that he’s always 8 feet off the ball handler. I swear if the ball handler continued driving at him to the rim he’d continue backing away into the hoop stanchion. And my bid is Nwora horrendous. Was hoping he could at least put up offensive numbers to at least be a piece in a trade.
The Lakers are closing in on 2-9. Could they conceivably trade Lebron?
Kind of NBA related, Fred Hickman dead at 66. One of the original hosts of Inside the NBA, famous for being the lone voter to prevent Shaq from being the unanimous MVP in 2000, he was a trailblazer in sports broadcasting. Sports Tonight on CNN with him and Nick Charles was better than Sportscenter by far. RIP.
As for the Lakers, I’ve seen them sending AD to the Bulls for Lavine and others. I’d love that, cause Lavine won’t fall in line behind Westbrook and Lebron ball dominating. I don’t see that working at all…so I hope they do itI'd agree with that. Lavine needs to be a third option, even if he doesn't think so. The Bulls are clearly on there way to a .500 season as they continue to get older and worse. This would make sense for the Bull's bumbling front office and the embarrassing Laker's front office (aka LBJ).
Utah may be for real which is incredible if you think about it. Markannen has been fantastic. I don't think they can tank now. I could see then trying to deal Conley or some of their older players but I think they have to play out the season and build around their younger guys. They also have tons of first round picks. Why wouldn't they try and find a star or another piece?
Because while they are for real in terms of making the Western conference playoff, they aren't a title contender even with let's say a Bradley Beal type player. Or even KD. You'd need to trade away young talent (taking away from your current rotation) plus give up your future draft picks to get that level of player.
Let's say you don't even need to trade away current players, and you're able to get KD. KD is good enough to be the best player on a title team. But Lauri Markkanen and Jordan Clarkson aren't good enough to be your second and third best players, even with how well they're playing right now.
I'm honestly not sure about that. Is there a dominant tean in the West? They may legitimately be a top 3 team in their conference right now. if they packaged something for Durant you don't believe they would have a shot?
I'm honestly not sure about that. Is there a dominant tean in the West? They may legitimately be a top 3 team in their conference right now. if they packaged something for Durant you don't believe they would have a shot?
You get way too fired upabout the early part of the season.
Garland dropped 51 today. 27 in the 4th Q. Who does he remind people of? He's only 6'1.
Wolves gotta just cut Russell.
Too short to be a “prospect.”
Warriors take a 3 point lead…then score 2 points in the final 4 min of regulation and miss their final 7 3 attempts to stay winless on the road. What a mess that team is right now
Ya.....I think this is getting pretty serious for the Dubs.I think its time to cut ties with Draymond. He looks really old out there.
Ahhh, the hindsight Rodgers strategy.Not sure about that, but Green is being manhandled by opposing teams PF lately (Sabonis (twice), Mobley, Banchero)
Their core is older and had a shorter offseason. They are the champs until they lose a playoff series. I will worry in February.
Ahhh, the hindsight Rodgers strategy.
Their core is older and had a shorter offseason. They are the champs until they lose a playoff series. I will worry in February.
They should just trade him at this point. Helped them get 4 titles. But the dude wants a max contract next offseason and he’s never been a max player. And now he’s not even close to the player he was at his best. Not worth it.
I think its time to cut ties with Draymond. He looks really old out there.
lawdog I did mention that I thought the Green/Poole incident would have a significant negative impact on Green and the team. He lost a lot of credibility and can't play with the same edge. I'm also guessing he's not getting away with as much physicality as he has in the past. The bigger issue though is that Klay Thompson is not the same player at all. Also, the hype their young players have gotten may be premature. The fact that they won it last year is truly a testament to how great Steph is in the history of the sport. Wiggins was outstanding as well, but we can never forget how good Curry is compared to other great players and his overall impact. Everyone in the entire GSW organization owes Curry a debt of gratitude.
Same player as what? Before his injury? Cause last year he averaged 20/4/3 on 43/39/91 shooting splits. His career averages are 19.5/3.5/2.3 on 46/42/85. And that was after missing the first half of the season. He put 38 on the Bucks, 37 on the Hawks, 36 on the Jazz, and 33 on the Lakers TWICE. And was just as good in the playoffs.
Has he started 22/23 slow? Absolutely. But he didn't magically change as a player in the offseason.
Their depth has been bad. After their top 6 they have been pretty mediocre, and thats including Draymond who has not been good. Thats the issue, not Klay Thompson who will still end up with his normal career numbers like he does every year.
Not saying their skill sets are/were the same, but Green is kind of like Rodman. When he helps you win, you can put up with a lot. When he stops helping you win -- and when he might even be contributing to you losing -- time to say buh-bye.
It will be interesting to see if and when Kerr comes to that conclusion.
One thing for sure: He won't be getting within light years of a max deal from anyone. But we shouldn't start a Go Fund Me page for him; he's already rich and someone will still make him richer, if not max-rich.
Not saying their skill sets are/were the same, but Green is kind of like Rodman. When he helps you win, you can put up with a lot. When he stops helping you win -- and when he might even be contributing to you losing -- time to say buh-bye.
It will be interesting to see if and when Kerr comes to that conclusion.
One thing for sure: He won't be getting within light years of a max deal from anyone. But we shouldn't start a Go Fund Me page for him; he's already rich and someone will still make him richer, if not max-rich.
He went to Michigan State, so a lot of his money is probably tied up infixedcryptolegal fees
Same player as what? Before his injury? Cause last year he averaged 20/4/3 on 43/39/91 shooting splits. His career averages are 19.5/3.5/2.3 on 46/42/85. And that was after missing the first half of the season. He put 38 on the Bucks, 37 on the Hawks, 36 on the Jazz, and 33 on the Lakers TWICE. And was just as good in the playoffs.
Has he started 22/23 slow? Absolutely. But he didn't magically change as a player in the offseason.
Their depth has been bad. After their top 6 they have been pretty mediocre, and thats including Draymond who has not been good. Thats the issue, not Klay Thompson who will still end up with his normal career numbers like he does every year.
Yep, he'll get another 3 year $55-60MM deal from someone (maybe the Lakers?) and then, IMO, become one of the best NBA commentators in all of media. Not sure if its the podcast route like JJ Reddick or a studio gig, but I truly think he's gonna be a better talking head than a player, and he thinks he's a borderline HOF player.FIFY
FIFY
If the is a god in heaven, please let DG go to the Lakers.
Jimmy's defense on the potential game winner from Booker
https://streamable.com/5qu60y
Jimmy's defense on the potential game winner from Booker
https://streamable.com/5qu60y
That is some pretty amazing defense.
GSW should trade DG for Jimmy and win another championship. The Heat should laugh in their face if they tried.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you play effen defense!
Jimmy's defense on the potential game winner from Booker
https://streamable.com/5qu60y
I thought it was a really bad look by Giannis after the game last night…until I heard the story. Damn Montrezl Harrell (and the 6ers assistant coach) is a douche.
Wizards with a 107-106 overtime win over the Heat last night. Couldn't help but notice that Jamal Cain had 4 points, 6 rebs, and 1asst in17 minutes of play, while Johnny Davis remains relegated to the G-League by the Wizards.
Before anyone cautions me not to read too much into that situation, I'm not reading anything into anything. I'm merely noting that a kid who sometimes had difficulty getting off the bench at MU, persisted and worked hard, and is now getting a good look in the NBA, while Mr. Everything lottery pick at UW, can't even stay on the big league roster.
That was quite a meltdown by the Lakers last night to lose at home up 17 in the 4th Q.19 games in the Lakers are who we thought they are. 9-10 seed in the West and no assets to use to get better. LBJ is focused on post basketball issues and wins/losses don't matter. LA was a great landing spot for the end.
19 games in the Lakers are who we thought they are. 9-10 seed in the West and no assets to use to get better. LBJ is focused on post basketball issues and wins/losses don't matter. LA was a great landing spot for the end.
It's going to be a long 4-5 years for the Lakers.
19 games in the Lakers are who we thought they are. 9-10 seed in the West and no assets to use to get better. LBJ is focused on post basketball issues and wins/losses don't matter. LA was a great landing spot for the end.
It's going to be a long 4-5 years for the Lakers.
Franchises spend decades looking for one title.
The Suns, Jazz, Pacers, Clippers, Nets and others have had long stretches of high-caliber play without ever winning a single championship. The Bulls had their dynasty, but it's been nearly 25 years and they might never win another. In 2020, the Bucks had gone almost 50 years since winning their lone title. Any of them would have killed to have that bubble championship.
The Lakers don't win it without LeBron - period. And despite what's happened since, Forbes still rates the Lakers as the 10th-most valuable sports franchise in the world.
I get what people are saying, but almost every other franchise in the NBA would accept that kind of dumpster fire.
Not sure that is true, and zero way to prove one way or the other.
I'd also argue if it wasn't for the bubble and the unusual end to that season, there was no way they win a championship...period.
The Bulls need to start over.They do.
Damn....apparently Anthony Davis decided it's time to ball. 55 and 17 today and 22-30.
Actually, he just got healthy. Still a Top 10 guy.
Never has been.
But good for him for having a couple good games in a row.
He's never been t-10 in the league?
Of course he has. He will be a 1st ballot HoFer.
Which means nothing in regards to whether he’s a top 10 player. There are plenty of first ballot HOFers who weren’t top 10 players.
Funny that you’re an AD stan when you knock KD because he hasn’t won anything without Steph. Remind me what AD has done without LBJ? Made it out of the first round once, and Jrue had to drag him in order to make that happen?
Never has been.?????????????????????????????????
But good for him for having a couple good games in a row.
?????????????????????????????????
Yeah, I don't think he watches much hoops.
Once again, says the guy who claims KD can't be a top 5 player because he's never won anything as the best player on his team (despite 2 Finals MVPs saying otherwise). But we'll stan for AD, who's won exactly 1 Playoff series without sitting out until he gets traded to arguably the best player to ever play the game's team, and that one series he was dragged by Jrue Holiday to get the series win.
But hey, nothing like being consistent in your evaluations!
By the way, what is with old people claiming other people don't know/don't watch "ball?" Are you guys missing your 7th grade days or what?
AD sits last night for most of the game and the Lakers piss themselves in Cleveland and don’t show up for the 4th quarter.
I love the NBA, but the last 4-5 min of that game are why people legitimately complain about effort. Tied at 92, Cavs go on a 16-6 run. Up 10 with 4 min left, Lakers give up and mail it in. The remaining possession involve the Lakers half assing fade aways, Kendrick Nunn bricking rushed 25 footers, and the Cavs walking up every possession and just trying to fade the game away. The Lakers scored 2 baskets in the final 4:30 and it’s not cause the Cavs we’re playing lights out lock down defense.
Come on. Didn't we see Marquette go something like 9:00 scoreless earlier this year? The NBA is awesome. Outside of Marquette games, I'd much, much rather watch a high end NBA game vs. a high end college game. Give me people that knock down open shots consistently over the oftentimes brick fests you see in the college game.
Yes, a single NBA game means much less than a single college game. There are 3x the games in an NBA season, and only one thing matters (your record) in the NBA vs. how much you win or lose by, who you beat and where you beat them, etc. in college. So yes, if a team is down 8 with 50 seconds left the NBA teams will just run the time out rather than turning the final 50 seconds into 5 minutes of free throws in college. But overall the NBA is so much superior as a product.
None of this is a knock on the NBA as a whole. You can see from my posting history in this thread and others that I'm a huge fan. Hence why I was even watching Lakers/Cavs (in the early hours of the morning in Belgium as I was getting work done in fact). I adore college basketball but Ive transitioned to watching more random NBA games than random college games the last few years.
I have no issue with punting the last minute or two of a game thats basically unwinnable in a 82 game season, none. Like my post highlights, it was more the Lakers deciding an 8 point deficit with 3+ minutes to go was "f it" when their first attempt shots weren't falling. I could care less about the outcome, it was just a wet fart ending to an otherwise entertaining back and forth game, highlighted by Mitchell going nuclear as the new Cavs superstar as Lebron came back to Cleveland expecting adoration.
However, I will never, NEVER, not hate hate HATE the shot clock violation with more than 10 seconds left on the clock. Crossing halfcourt and holding the ball for 20 seconds to take a 24 second call with 12/15/20 seconds left on the clock is just stupid and oddly arrogant.
All Phoenix needs is a 40 point run and they’re right back in it.
Pummeling the best team in the West on their home court should be a wake up call for the Bucks. Because frankly Boston is better right now and I don't think it's close. Middleton will have to come back to all-star level at minimum.
Pummeling the best team in the West on their home court should be a wake up call for the Bucks. Because frankly Boston is better right now and I don't think it's close. Middleton will have to come back to all-star level at minimum.
I think they're going to have to give up Grayson to get something back.
I think they're going to have to give up Grayson to get something back.
The Bucks should just cancel the rest of their season.
Why even bother to try to contend with the best team in the history of basketball? This Celtics group has been running roughshod over playoff fields for years now. All those rings that Tatum and Brown have ... it's blinding the light that reflects off of them.
Uhhh....Jaylen Brown is absolutely destroying Booker. They may have two of the top 7 players in the league.
Jaylen Brown is not a top 7 player in the NBA.
Jaylen Brown is not a top 7 player in the NBA.
They're what? 25 and 26? They're doing just fine. It's also worth noting they're playing without Robert Williams. What I see is a team with the #2 guy in the league playing with the best 2G in the league for starters. These guys play both ends of the floor and basically can guard all five positions. The only 2G I might want ahead of Jaylen Brown right now is SGA. Again, the Bucks are the one team that has a shot but Middleton has to come back to his all-star level.
Top 10? Remember defense and durability s part of the game and he can guard any position. Which 2G's would you take ahead of him?
Giannis, Jokic, Tatum, Curry, Luka, Ja, Embiid, Durant, Booker are above him without a shred of debate. I’d comfortably rate Butler, AD, a healthy Kawhi, and Lebron above him as well.
I’d take Booker, Anthony Edwards, and Donovan Mitchell over Brown at the 2 quite happily.
The Celtics are a very good team. Tatum is first-team All-NBA, Brown is a fine player, and they have several good to very good role players. They certainly could win the title, just as they could have last season and the season before.
Beyond that ... I'll hold off on saying the rest of the NBA is doomed until I see the Celtics actually win something, and then win something again.
Other than the Bucks the rest of the NBA, barring a major injury, is doomed.
C's are a contender, but acting like they're in a league of their own is foolish. They have question marks to answer the same way other contenders do. It's also worth noting that even contenders are only 1 key injury away from being seriously hampered.
Other than the Bucks the rest of the NBA, barring a major injury, is doomed.
The have a key injury and Gallanari is out. Yet they're still better this year. G.WIllians is better, they added Brogdon, Griffin and Kornet are both serviceable. They shoot 39% as a team from distance and can get quality looks consistently with all 5 guys moving and screening. The only team with a chance is Milwaukee imo.
Citing someone averaging 5 ppg is not going to help your cause.
We get it, you're a Celtics fan. You being a Celtics fan does not mean that they get a bye to the ECF though. Lots a ball to be played.
I think he’s less a Celtics fan and more an excessive worrier.
Fair, I don't know for sure that he's a C's fan. He just sure seems to overlook a lot of details that paint the C's in favorable light, as well as contradicting himself.
I think he’s less a Celtics fan and more an excessive worrier.
I think he’s less a Celtics fan and more an excessive worrier.
Someone will score 35 next week and be deemed a top 8 player by Muggsy.
A 1 time All Star who isn’t really an above average shooter, who is nowhere near as good as his teammate who is a legit top 8 player, and who is being presented as a fearsome Rodman level defender despite never being in the discussion for All Defensive team is suddenly the best 2G in the league :o
When you go to “intangibles” as one of your main arguments for a player’s greatness, you’ve lost.
He's averaging 26.7 ppg with a .498 shooting percentage. He scores pretty proficiently.
He’s shooting 35% from 3 the last 2 years. He’s not even top 5 in scoring in the East alone. He’s a nice player, nobody is doubting that. Stop trying to make him into a legend that has the rest of the league cowering in fear.
The Bucks should have all hands on deck and make the proper counter moves ASAP.
Let me be clear: I would absolutely hate to see the Celtics carve teams apart in the playoffs, especially the Bucks. But right now they look like they're clearly the better team. The Bucks should have all hands on deck and make the proper counter moves ASAP.
Let me be clear: I would absolutely hate to see the Celtics carve teams apart in the playoffs, especially the Bucks. But right now they look like they're clearly the better team.
Well, I know I can be an alarmist but from what I've seen the Bucks are not where they need to be yet.
Well, I know I can be an alarmist but from what I've seen the Bucks are not where they need to be yet. Obviously it will take a couple of more games for Middleton. We'll see how they respond to a tougher part of their schedule and on the road.
And again, a year ago, the Suns clearly looked like the best team in the NBA, one that was coming off a Finals appearance, and seemed destined for multiple NBA championships.And a year ago the Bulls had the best record in the East. 'Tis a long season for sure.
It's a long season. The Bucks (and others) have 2 months before they need to even think seriously about doing anything. And unlike the Celtics, the Bucks have 3 All-Stars and several role players with championship rings. This isn't their first rodeo.
Even though the Mavs gifted that game with their FT shooting (which no matta), the Bucks are fine.
Middleton is still working his way back, and their defense is still elite. We'll see what Ingles has left, but he has the potential to unlock the 2nd unit.
I don't know exactly how they'll get better at the deadline; Allen has acquitted himself well and is a valuable piece to trade.
His worst match-up is the Celtics, which still makes him the most likely move.
Would the Buck's be a buyer at the soon to be Bull's 'Going Out of Business' sale?
Caruso would be the only guy.I think he could really help a team like the Bucks. Does the little things you need for a championship.
I think he could really help a team like the Bucks. Does the little things you need for a championship.
I think he could really help a team like the Bucks. Does the little things you need for a championship.
Grayson on the Bulls would be worth the premiumNo thanks.
Huh. The Greatest Team There Ever Was just lost by 1000 points to a .500 Golden State team.
TGTTEW is now all of 1 game ahead of The Team That’s In Serious Trouble.
It truly is remarkable what Steph Curry continues to do in his 14th season. Have you looked at his stats? He's still the most dangerous offensive player in the entire league. It's often mentioned that he's the best shooter that has ever lived but I think it goes way beyond that. Guys that are great pure shooters generally are catch and shoot players. His ability to shoot off the dribble, and from unlimited range, is so far beyond the next best guy it's honestly a joke. I mean Durant is really good but he's 6'10 for starters.
Also, there isn't a spot on the floor where Curry cannot consistently and efficiently score. The only thing he doesn't do among the all-time great scorers is get to the FT line. I think he's in the top 5 of all-time discussion. Truthfully, the team he won with last season didn't have a ton around him. Imagine being so good, at only 6'3, where you literally cannot be guarded at all.
Steph is also a better passer, rebounder (6’3 vs. 6’11) and ball handler than Durant.
It truly is remarkable what Steph Curry continues to do in his 14th season. Have you looked at his stats? He's still the most dangerous offensive player in the entire league. It's often mentioned that he's the best shooter that has ever lived but I think it goes way beyond that. Guys that are great pure shooters generally are catch and shoot players. His ability to shoot off the dribble, and from unlimited range, is so far beyond the next best guy it's honestly a joke. I mean Durant is really good but he's 6'10 for starters.Yes, Curry obviously is an all-time great. Top 5? I haven’t thought enough about that.
Also, there isn't a spot on the floor where Curry cannot consistently and efficiently score. The only thing he doesn't do among the all-time great scorers is get to the FT line. I think he's in the top 5 of all-time discussion. Truthfully, the team he won with last season didn't have a ton around him. Imagine being so good, at only 6'3, where you literally cannot be guarded at all.
Not that this is about Durant … but Curry is even averaging the exact same 6.6 rebounds that Durant’s averaging this season.
Right. And it’s a career high for Curry, while it’s the 4th lowest of Durant’s career. Two of the three years lower were his first two seasons in the NBA, and two of the three were within 0.2 rebounds per game of the 6.6 this year.
But yeah. Curry is a better rebounder than Durant. Lol.
Last 5 years, the 6’11” guy averages 1.2 rebounds per game more than the 6’3”.
Either Curry is a better rebounder or Durant plays with not enough effort.
Last 5 years, the 6’11” guy averages 1.2 rebounds per game more than the 6’3”.
Either Curry is a better rebounder or Durant plays with not enough effort.
So one guy averages 1.2 rebounds per game more, and the guy averaging less is the better rebounder? That is some kind of logic you have going on.Don't have a dog in this scoop fight, but is there some advanced stat for % of available rebounds? Minutes, shots missed, etc? And even more advanced like % of rebounds grabbed in your "area".
Don't have a dog in this scoop fight, but is there some advanced stat for % of available rebounds? Minutes, shots missed, etc? And even more advanced like % of rebounds grabbed in your "area".
I am sure there are. I’m also pretty sure the guy averaging 2.7 rebounds per game more would be favored in those numbers.Thats a bad argument. Mant people say Larry Bird is one of the best passers ever, but others averaged more assists.
It’d be like saying that the 6’11” guy averaging 1.6 fewer assists per game than the 6’3” guy is a better passer because the 6’3” guy is a guard compared to a forward. It’s a terrible argument and factually false.
Bucks Vs. Rockets. A team in purple and green playing a team in white, green, and yellow on a red court is...a look
But yeah. Curry is a better rebounder than Durant. Lol.
Giannis' jumper doesn't look right to me. I wonder if he keeps tweaking it to a fault? It's way off, no arc, and just not smooth st all.
It’s never been right and never will be. Doesn’t really matter.
Could Wemby be Giannis with a J in a few years? :)
Minus injury, I expect him to wrest the title of the world’s greatest player from Giannis by age 24-25.
Will be interesting to see if he can develop his body similar to how Giannis did.
In his day, Ralph Sampson. 7'4 with SF skills. Sadly, fragile knees.
Does anyone know what exactly happened with Draymond Green and this fan at Fiserv?
I think everyone interested knows what happened. We have a secret way to find out.
Just askin’ everyone to keep the Google Pipes secret so we can keep Muggsy in the dark.
Just wondering if anyone knows why the Knicks are playing AT Chicago 2 games in a row? Just a schedule quirk?
Just wondering if anyone knows why the Knicks are playing AT Chicago 2 games in a row? Just a schedule quirk?
They've done these since they restarted (outside the bubble) after covid. They're mini series and were originally used to reduce travel.Makes sense.
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2021/09/06/nba-still-experimenting-with-regular-season-series/
Bucks down 35. CANCEL THE SEASON!
In his day, Ralph Sampson. 7'4 with SF skills. Sadly, fragile knees.
Bucks down 35. CANCEL THE SEASON!
Billy Donovan to Texas?
You have to at least call.Donovan is going to take some of the heat for the Bulls failure (right or wrong). Could be a nice landing spot for him as opposed to a 2-4 year Bulls' rebuild. And, the Bulls new GM may not give him a choice.
Bulls giving up 150 to a T-Wolves team minus Towns & Gobert is definitely no bueno.Ahhh... that explaines the line.
40/27/10 for Jokic tonite.
Bold take: He’s a great player.I feel he's going to need to average near that to get the MVP again.
I feel he's going to need to average near that to get the MVP again.
Suns are selling for $4billion? And to think, Giannis and Luka own them for free.
According to The Athletic, Zach LeVine and DeMar DeRozan aren't getting along. Additionally, LeVine is having a disconnect with Bulls coaching and management. There have been numerous meetings between the players, between LeVine and the coaches, etc.Set TNT, attach a fuse, light fuse....... REBUILD
Making it even more fun: LeVine is in the first year of the max deal he just signed.
ESPN says the Hornets are negotiating a new contract with Miles Bridges, who has yet to play this season because he allegedly beat the mother of his children right in front of the kids.Beard to the Hornets. "They will beat the $h!t of of every (W)NBA team"
Criminal charges ended up being dropped and a large financial settlement was reached between Bridges and the woman. Bridges almost certainly will face a long suspension by the league -- similar cases have gotten 25 games or more -- but he then would be able to play again. The ESPN report said Bridges would agree to counseling and community service.
Beard to the Hornets. "They will beat the $h!t of of every (W)NBA team"
The Bucks might want to guard the 3pt line vs Boston. WTF?
Dude calm down. It’s a regular season game well before the all star break with 42 minutes left to play.
Sammy with a crazy bank three there.
After they call a charge on Giannis for pushing out of Brogdon’s bear hug of him.
The Bucks have no fluidity in their h-c offense.
They’re down 7 and are being outscored in transition by 6 and are playing without their best half court player. It’s fine, they’re getting some open looks and missing them.
It's fine that Tatum is scoring at will? This and other things are a concern.
You said their half court offense has no flow. The half court offense hasn’t been the issue.
I'll be curious to see if that game pushes Horst to try and get a deal for Jae over the line. Just like in May, the Bucks had no answer for their wings.
It's easy to say "Yeah, but Khris will be back." But given his injury issues I wouldn't bank on him being back to the player he was.
Then the Bucks shouldn’t be making a win now move on the margins, because if Khris isn’t the Bucks’ second best player they aren’t making the ECF even.
Jokic with 41, 15, and 15 on 16-25 shooting last night. His overall skill-set is pretty ridiculous for a man that large. What are they doing over in Europe that we're not doing in the USA?
Jokic with 41, 15, and 15 on 16-25 shooting last night. His overall skill-set is pretty ridiculous for a man that large. What are they doing over in Europe that we're not doing in the USA? The guy appears to be a better and larger Nowitzki. I'm just not sure he has enough around him. I get he's not a great defender but I think he's less of a liability than a poor perimeter defender like Doncic.
Good job by the Pistons. Up 14 with 3 minutes left, then lose.
From the espn article:
Entering play Monday, NBA teams were 2-12,873 in the play-by-play era (since 1996-97) when trailing by 14 or more points with 3 minutes remaining; the Clippers were 0-417. The only wins were by the Hawks on March 17, 1997, against the Magic and by the Kings on Jan. 27, 2020, against the Timberwolves. Since that Sacramento victory, teams in that scenario had lost 1,467 games.
60-21-10 for Luka tonight.
60-21-10 for Luka tonight.
Wow. Those are Wilt numbers.
Luka also foiled Tom Thibodeau's foul-up-3 strategy at the end of regulation.
Luka made the first FT, intentionally missed the second, got the rebound himself and hit a contested, falling-down 12-footer at the buzzer to tie it.
A lot of NBA coaches do not foul up 3. I have seen a few quoted as saying that NBA refs are more liberal with in-act-of-shooting calls than college refs are, and NBA players are better at making the 3 while fouled than college players are.
Last guy with 60/20 was Shaq - he didn’t have 10 assists, though. Amazing performance by young guy (23 or 24?) who looks like he’s still carrying some baby fat.
Despite the baby fat, he gets anywhere he wants on the court. Guys like Giannis and Morant get there with power or quickness. Luka gets there because he wants to.
If you can clearly foul before it’s an act of shooting situation it’s still the right play imo. Every pro team has multiple players who are at least very good 3 point shooters.
The reason everyone is talking about Luka’s play at the end of regulation is because it’s extremely difficult to pull off.
And Luka's rebound and shot at the buzzer were completely insane. He had no business getting that rebound...it went through three Knicks' hands before it fell to Luka and then his shot was ridiculous. In general, "it's extremely difficult to pull off." In this case, Luka turned the difficulty level up to 11. Amazing.
Despite the baby fat, he gets anywhere he wants on the court. Guys like Giannis and Morant get there with power or quickness. Luka gets there because he wants to.
What does this even mean? He teleports?
If you can clearly foul before it’s an act of shooting situation it’s still the right play imo. Every pro team has multiple players who are at least very good 3 point shooters.
The reason everyone is talking about Luka’s play at the end of regulation is because it’s extremely difficult to pull off.
I see Grayson Allen doing Grayson Allen things again.Just doing his job. That's his skill set.
Donovan Mitchell scored 71 tonight in the Cavs’ win over Chicago. Arguably, his best basket of the night came after Chicago fouled him while up three with 4.1 left in regulation. Mitchell rebounded his intentional miss and made a great shot. It broke the Bulls’ spirit. Reminiscent of Luka last week.2 rebounds away from a triple double. Slacker
Donovan Mitchell scored 71 tonight in the Cavs’ win over Chicago. Arguably, his best basket of the night came after Chicago fouled him while up three with 4.1 left in regulation. Mitchell rebounded his intentional miss and made a great shot. It broke the Bulls’ spirit. Reminiscent of Luka last week.
He committed a lane violation on the scramble to the shot but they were never gonna call that
Donovan Mitchell scored 71 tonight in the Cavs’ win over Chicago. Arguably, his best basket of the night came after Chicago fouled him while up three with 4.1 left in regulation. Mitchell rebounded his intentional miss and made a great shot. It broke the Bulls’ spirit. Reminiscent of Luka last week.The Bulls have spirit?
Pretty sure the NBA only calls it if the first rebounder is literally standing under the hoop when the shot is taken.sure but they called two on Caruso that same game
I watched part of the Mavs game last night and Christian Wood, I believe, stepped into the lane, sort of stuttered back into place realizing what he did, and still stepped firmly into the lane while the shooter was still going up and the FT was missed, nothing called.
The Greatest Team In NBA History lost by 1,000 points to an Oklahoma City team playing without SGA.
At least Sam got a lot of garbage-time minutes.
Either way, Luka is absolutely out of his mind and on his way to becoming a first ballot HOF before he even reaches his prime. Between him and what Giannis, Jokic, Tatum, SGA and Mitchell are doing on a nightly basis, its a surreal time to be an NBA fan even if your primary team stinks.
Matt Moore says the Bucks are kicking the tires on a Bojan Bogdonovic deal. Don't hate the fit, especially if Ingles is heading out.
Bill Simmons said he's hearing things about chemistry issues with the Bucks and I am not surprised in the least. Something seems off with them, and it wouldn't surprise me if some of it surrounds Middleton. He did not look like he kept himself in playing shape. Giannis especially has taken a beating over the last few weeks without his #2.
If an extension for 22 is unlikely, I wonder if they'll listen to offers for him. But with the injuries who knows what the return looks like.
Despite being attacked relentlessly on my take, Budenholzer has admitted there are significant concerns with the Bucks.
Despite being attacked relentlessly on my take, Budenholzer has admitted there are significant concerns with the Bucks.
Yes, I can see that losing by 1,000 points to one of the very worst teams in the NBA would cause some people "significant concerns."
And yet the Bucks have the 5th-best record in the NBA, only 2.5 games behind the team with the best record -- a team you have painted as some kind of unstoppable juggernaut -- because they are battling injuries to important players.
On Jan. 7, 1998 -- 25 years ago yesterday -- the two-time defending champion Chicago Bulls lost by 27 points to Miami; they were outscored by 35 points over the last 3 quarters. Pippen had yet to play after having surgery just before the season, Rodman was causing headaches in his Wormy way, Jordan was threatening to retire after the season, there was very public organizational upheaval, and plenty of observers were significantly concerned that the dynasty was over. Five months later, they were lifting the trophy again.
Back to today's Bucks ... I honestly don't know if they have enough to win a title. But I do know that, when healthy, they are a formidable team that nobody wants to play. They have a top-5 NBA player (arguably a top-1 player), two All-Star-level support players, and some very good role players.
The season is not quite at the halfway mark. If we get to, say, the trade deadline and the Bucks have fallen well behind and/or if it appears unlikely that they will be healthy, then your DEFCON-20 level of concern might be a little more warranted.
Oh, and I don't remember anybody "attacking" you. Mostly, folks poked fun at your tendency to go to DEFCON-20 on so many things. Including every Marquette game.
Hey, it's you being you and nobody should have a problem with it, but it doesn't mean others can't have a little fun with it, too.
I think they have some probs you're neglecting for some reason. You can't give up 80 pts in a half, at home, to the Hornets. They have been inefficient offensively and have not played particularly well for a month. I get they are navigating injuries but I'm not convinced they can just turn it on in tbe playoffs.
I think they have some probs you're neglecting for some reason. You can't give up 80 pts in a half, at home, to the Hornets. They have been inefficient offensively and have not played particularly well for a month. I get they are navigating injuries but I'm not convinced they can just turn it on in tbe playoffs.
Bucks win
Impossible. Check again.
They beat the Knicks. They have a long, long, way to go.
Dumb suckers who paid NBA prices to watch Bucks (scrubs) vs Heat (scrubs), hey?This movie is coming to your local college basketball team when they expand the tourney to 96. :(
After tonight’s events, I’m convinced the NBA is just a glorified WWE.
Jaren Jackson Jr.’s home/away splits for his defensive numbers are…uhh…interesting. People are Tweeting plays where some player just fumbles the ball going to the hoop and Jackson is the closest defender and suddenly he’s awarded a blocked shot, passes being stolen by a teammate of his but he was guarding the ball handler so he gets awarded the “steal,” etc.
Jaren Jackson Jr.’s home/away splits for his defensive numbers are…uhh…interesting. People are Tweeting plays where some player just fumbles the ball going to the hoop and Jackson is the closest defender and suddenly he’s awarded a blocked shot, passes being stolen by a teammate of his but he was guarding the ball handler so he gets awarded the “steal,” etc.
Giannis is pretty good at basketball.
Trade his azz
Kyrie is asking to be traded.Damn! Days on end about him going to the Lakers. Unless Santa brought the Lakers some players or draft picks, nothing has changed from 5 months ago but the national media will go on and on about him going to the Lakers. :(
Who could have seen this coming?
Don’t worry, I’ve seen totally reasonable and totally plausible assertions by, who I thought were decent, BB connected guys saying KD and Kyrie joining AD and Lebron in LA next year.Is Jeanie Buss buying the Nets?
Don’t worry, I’ve seen totally reasonable and totally plausible assertions by, who I thought were decent, BB connected guys saying KD and Kyrie joining AD and Lebron in LA next year.Only if they agree that Bronny is the 5th starter.
I guess Giannis had an off night.
I guess Giannis had an off night.
Ball knowers would trade his azz
As Giannis rounds into MVP form and Middleton's health improves, the Bucks seem poised to take a run at another title.
In other words, it's again time to ... brake upp da bux, oona?
I have some concerns. Particularly their defense.
Kyrie to the MavsImpossible, the national media told us it would be the Lakers.
He has to have agreed to extend with them and had to have Luka’s approval, right? I’m not touching Kyrie for 2 starters and a first (plus 2 picks) if I’m any team. But especially one trying to keep Luka happy.
Impossible, the national media told us it would be the Lakers.
This honestly feels like a salary dump with upside. If Kyrie is a good citizen and spectacular, great. If not, he's a FA and you have cap space to find a Luka wingmanThat’s a logical take, GBW.
I partake of the national media every day and I wasn't told that.That is true. Not close to the Kyrie to Lakers - "Done Deal" this past summer.
I was told that the Lakers were one of the possible destinations for Kyrie.
Ja Morant should probably tighten up that groups he hangs out with.
Pretty sure I saw this evening that the NBA looked into it and didn’t find anything to support the story that was brought to the Athletic
Only took LeBron like 10 minutes to get around to hugging/dapping up/high fiving his teammates after he broke the record. Kanye got a hug from him before his teammates did. Lol.
Were my ears deceiving me, or did LeBron, talking to a packed arena and a national TV audience, actually (and rather casually) say the f-word near the end of his speech?
Yep. Right at the end, he said, "F@ck, man" -- fairly softly but into the live mic. It actually was almost endearing in a weird way -- "everyman-ish," unlike the rest of the coronation ceremony. But could anybody really have expected a toned-down ceremony involving a very self-aware guy and the Hollywood franchise?
I'm still in the Jordan-as-GOAT camp, with LeBron, Magic, Wilt, Russell and Kareem in the next tier just behind. FWIW though, LeBron will go down as the most statistically accomplished player in basketball history ... and it won't really be close by the time he's done. He could end up with 10K more points than Jordan and Wilt.
Just like Justin Rose saying 'sh!t' over a live mic at the end of the Sunday part of the AT&T. Oops.
It would have been interesting to see what Kareem could have done in the NBA with the four years that Lebron had by not going to college. Kareem was clearly second fiddle to Magic on the back end of those Laker teams - perhaps even third behind James Worthy. And that last year was pretty ugly culminating in that blowout Finals loss to the Pistons.
But yeah it looks like Lebron could be good for another five years.
I am in the small group that considers Kareem the GOAT. He was the high school GOAT, He was the college GOAT, and he was the NBA GOAT.
I am in the small group that considers Kareem the GOAT. He was the high school GOAT, He was the college GOAT, and he was the NBA GOAT.
LBJ also got made 2,233 three pointers compared to Kareem's 1. The 3 point line wasn't even around for the first half of Kareem's career.
I don't really agree with that, but I think GOAT debates are tiresome. I was simply mentioning that Lebron by age got a four year head start on the scoring record. I am certainly not trying to diminish his accomplishment in anyway because the record is the record, but it would have been interesting to see where Kareem would have ended up had he entered the league four years earlier.
While that's a valid point, I don't think it would have mattered much for Kareem's total. He wasn't going to be bombing away from deep even if the three point line would have been around for his entire career.
Sure, but that would still be another season and a half of scoring needed for Lebron to catch him if you assume he would have 2 instead of 3 for each of those baskets.
Durant to Phoenix for Bridges, Crowder, Cam Johnson, four 1sts, and 2028 pick swap back to Brooklyn.
Durant to Phoenix for Bridges, Crowder, Cam Johnson, four 1sts, and 2028 pick swap back to Brooklyn.
there supposedly was talk of the bucks picking up jae in an attempt to fill in another experienced veteran before trade deadline and for a final playoff push, but jae had made it known to phoenix he wanted to start. i doubt milwaukee would have honored that. i guess being on a winner and great weather wasn't enough. now he has crap weather, a loser and significantly higher taxes. sometimes careful what ya wish for?
maybe milwaukee still swings a deal? jae better hope so, because he's presently in b-ball purgatory
Durant to Phoenix for Bridges, Crowder, Cam Johnson, four 1sts, and 2028 pick swap back to Brooklyn.
Durant is a great player, but I feel like the Suns overpaid. But, if they get a title out of the deal, it will have been worth it. I lived in Phoenix when I first started following basketball (my Marquette years...coincidence?) and I followed the Suns. I still like them and if the Cavs don't win, I'd like for the Suns to win. But I'm not sure Durant will get them over the hump and they gave up a lot to get him. I'd be very happy to be wrong.
I would think it's conceivable Jae is waved by Brooklyn.
Durant, Paul, Booker and Ayton. If I were a Suns fan, I'd be thrilled that my team is taking a big swing and going for it all.
Sure, it might end up not being great down the line, but this is how you win in the NBA.
If healthy that's a beyond potent line-up. Seriously......WTF do you do with Durant and Booker on the floor together while CP3 is running the Point? This isn't like Brooklyn at all, both Booker and Durant excel off the ball and can bully ball smalls. And then it's not like Ayton is a slouch on switches or rim running. Assuming Paul is healthy I cannot see how they are not significant favorites now.
Durant, Paul, Booker and Ayton. If I were a Suns fan, I'd be thrilled that my team is taking a big swing and going for it all.
Sure, it might end up not being great down the line, but this is how you win in the NBA.
You hope that there isn't enough ball to go around. Just like there wasn't in Brooklyn.
Kyrie and Harden are much different players than Booker and Paul.
yes muggs, however, his big stink with phoenix was "starting" i don't get that because coming off bench, 2nd line, play well and you still get yourself 30 minutes
i just don't see him starting on bucks, but if ya throw him a bone and start him, then pull him after 2-3 minutes, what's the difference except EGO?? i don't see jae as having that EGO thing nor getting in the way of being on a team with a chance to WIN. plus he'd be back with wesley and milwaukee. the dude is making $10 mil
I think Phoenix’s biggest worry will be depth rather than how the starters fit together.
Suns will be absolute murder on drop coverages with the midrange games that KD and CP possess.
But beyond their top 4 it gets ugly. Can they find enough quality depth on the buyout market?
Jae to the Bucks for a bunch of second rounders. Maybe pause the slander, aina
Jae to the Bucks for a bunch of second rounders. Maybe pause the slander, aina
So, the Nets got four firsts, five seconds, Bridges, and Johnson for Durant. That's not a bad haul for a team that is "in process".
So, the Nets got four firsts, five seconds, Bridges, and Johnson for Durant. That's not a bad haul for a team that is "in process".
Don't get me wrong...I'm glad to see it. Most of my family is still there, and I'm sure they're thrilled. I'm hoping for a Cavs/Suns finals. That would be great. And if it's not the Cavs, I definitely hope the Suns win it all.
As much respect as I have for Durant, I'm just not convinced that he's the guy. That was a lot to give up if he doesn't deliver.
Durant just thinks he is “the guy”.
In reality, he needs “a guy” to win. Then, he gets jealous and moves on.
Shams saying just Nwora and Serge to Indy, Woj saying Hill. Did it take all 3 to make the $ work.
Durant just thinks he is “the guy”.
In reality, he needs “a guy” to win. Then, he gets jealous and moves on.
I am in the small group that considers Kareem the GOAT. He was the high school GOAT, He was the college GOAT, and he was the NBA GOAT.
Yup.
Also, if all Jae is is a front court Wes, that helps a ton. Although I think he’s got a little more in the tank than Wes.
Who is "the guy" on the Suns? Are we gonna say Booker is a better player than KD now?
Seth Davis tweeted the exact same thing.
I have no opinion about the HS and NCAA parts, but I respectfully disagree about the NBA piece. I saw Jordan rip out too many opposing team's hearts; plus, once Magic got to the Lakers, they really were his team and not Kareem's.
No idea what the Bulls are doing.Do you work in the Bulls' front office?
Do you work in the Bulls' front office?
They're a complete disaster.Agreed. I think the Bulls' front office is asking "what's going on with the Bulls?" also.
Agreed. I think the Bulls' front office is asking "what's going on with the Bulls?" also.
Pretty frustrating performance by the Bucks vs the Lakers. 7-32 from distance?? Hopefully they wake up.
Thoughts and prayers to Bucks Nation.
@ShamsCharania
American businessman/Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and Haslam Sports Group are in serious talks to buy Milwaukee Bucks co-owner Marc Lasry's stake in the Bucks, sources tell me, @sam_amick and @eric_nehm.
Thoughts and prayers to Bucks Nation.Bucks fans do not deserve this. Milwaukee does not deserve this.
@ShamsCharania
American businessman/Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and Haslam Sports Group are in serious talks to buy Milwaukee Bucks co-owner Marc Lasry's stake in the Bucks, sources tell me, @sam_amick and @eric_nehm.
Thoughts and prayers to Bucks Nation.
@ShamsCharania
American businessman/Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and Haslam Sports Group are in serious talks to buy Milwaukee Bucks co-owner Marc Lasry's stake in the Bucks, sources tell me, @sam_amick and @eric_nehm.
It'll be fine.
I assume this is because
A) Lasry wants to partner in the venture trying to get the NBA team in Vegas.
and also, lesser, cause
B) Alex Lasry wants no part of Wisconsin anymore.
Why is he anti Wisconsin JWags?
Wrong, Lasry bowed out 2 weeks prior to the primary election to pave the golden brick road for Barnes* to defeat Johnson in the general election. Only fly in the ointment was Barnes lost, hey?
Alex Lasry (owner's son) lost the primary for US Senate.
FWIW, I have also heard that Edens and Lasry don't really get along.
Oh......that's right. So he dislikes the state because his kid had zero chance to win that election?
And all the crimeAnd a bad dental experience
https://www.facebook.com/reel/2153211538201039?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&mibextid=0NULKw
The internet wins again.
That was on a game winning shot. The League report agreed with LeBron.
I’m not sure anyone in the world disagrees with LeBron. I’ve also seen many, many calls decide a game and not have people act like Bronny got beheaded in front of him.
That was on a game winning shot. The League report agreed with LeBron.
Wrong. Alex Lasry was on the ballot and lost. He bowed out because his loss was inevitable.
Dame to the Bucks confirmed.
NO WAY
Westbrook is apparently going to the Clippers. Not exactly sure how he "fits" there.
Westbrook obviously is highly skilled but does he really "fit" anywhere?The national media told us he was going to the Bulls. The missing piece to the dynasty. ::)
Meyers Leonard twoo da Bucks on a Ten Dey Kontract...yuk, aina?
If you read more into it, Leonard did the right thing when something like this happens. He sincerely apologized and has since worked with numerous rabbis and Jewish orgs in Miami, back in Champaign, and elsewhere. And much of that was well after he got the boot, so it wasn't some immediate saving of face. Time, effort, and education goes farther than a knee jerk donation.Good for you to view this with common sense, clarity and understanding. Unfortunately you stand almost alone in America today. There is good money to be made and power to be had by vilifying people for errors in judgment that could have even occurred decades ago and even run counter to how they live and act.
Some bigotry or hate speech comes from true hate, some comes from ignorance. The latter can be corrected and educated far easier. If it was indeed the latter, kudos to him for attempting to make amends and better himself and believe he deserves a second chance
Good for you to view this with common sense, clarity and understanding. Unfortunately you stand almost alone in America today. There is good money to be made and power to be had by vilifying people for errors in judgment that could have even occurred decades ago and even run counter to how they live and act.
Good for you to view this with common sense, clarity and understanding. Unfortunately you stand almost alone in America today. There is good money to be made and power to be had by vilifying people for errors in judgment that could have even occurred decades ago and even run counter to how they live and act.
::) ::) ::) I don't see many people trashing the Bucks for this move. I actually think Wags' falls into the solid majority here.
So many people got rich and powerful from posting Josh Hader's old tweets.
And the poor guy has seen his salary grow a mere 2433% in the years since.
I don't necessarily agree with power, but there is a ton of money to be made in being a talking head who gets worked up about this BS. But thats a different discussion.
Sure, outrage is a cottage industry, but not in the way WhiteTrash suggests. Nobody is making a dime by villifying people like Meyers Leonard.So do we shoot or burn at the stake everyone who made, or laughed at, a racial joke as teenagers? I personally think shooting is better for the environment, but I'll defer to you since you, as someone who can judge everyone's moral character, are smarter and wiser then me.
And (I aim this at WhiteTrash, not you) can we stop dismissing people being racist as "an error in judgement."
So do we shoot or burn at the stake everyone who made, or laughed at, a racial joke as teenagers? I personally think shooting is better for the environment, but I'll defer to you since you, as someone who can judge everyone's moral character, are smarter and wiser then me.
And, you have convinced me that Leonard is a racist. Thank you for helping me see the light.
So do we shoot or burn at the stake everyone who made, or laughed at, a racial joke as teenagers? I personally think shooting is better for the environment, but I'll defer to you since you, as someone who can judge everyone's moral character, are smarter and wiser then me.
And, you have convinced me that Leonard is a racist. Thank you for helping me see the light.
He never said Meyers was racist. And he wasn’t a teenager.I believe he was calling Meyers a racist.
But outrage away…
I believe he was calling Meyers a racist.
I never said he was a teenager.
My original point, which was I was told is incorrect, was I think people can have racist feeling or ideas but can grow and mature to be accepting of all people and can look back and identify that they made an error in judgment as it relates to people of a different race.
Well I hope you are right and I'm happy to be wrong in my statement. I could definitely being falling into the mass media trap of framing everything a crisis, everyone a victim, racist, sexist, etc.
::) ::) ::) I don't see many people trashing the Bucks for this move. I actually think Wags' falls into the solid majority here.
Again, you’re the only one outraged here. Everyone seems to be willing to give Meyers a break. Very much contrary to your original point that Wags “stands alone.”How should I read the statement "And (I aim this at WhiteTrash, not you) can we stop dismissing people being racist as "an error in judgement."?
How should I read the statement "And (I aim this at WhiteTrash, not you) can we stop dismissing people being racist as "an error in judgement."?
I understand it to mean I am downplaying racists like Meyers (I presume him since he is the topic at hand) as simply having an error in judgment and I don't recognize him as an evil racist.
I don't know if the man is a racist, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I guess that makes me a bad guy for allowing someone to repent and grow from their sins.
Again Pakuni said “being racist.” IOW saying or doing racist things, which Meyers clearly did.Fair enough. Maybe we are closer in thought than I perceived. To be clear on my position; 'saying or doing racist things' in my book are errors in judgment, major errors in judgment, that people should be held accountable for. In no way, shape or form was being dismissive of his racist actions.
He’s not claiming holds racist ideology and irredeemable. Because clearly he redeemed his comments.
Again Pakuni said “being racist.” IOW saying or doing racist things, which Meyers clearly did.
He’s not claiming holds racist ideology and irredeemable. Because clearly he redeemed his comments.
Again Pakuni said “being racist.” IOW saying or doing racist things, which Meyers clearly did.
He’s not claiming holds racist ideology and irredeemable. Because clearly he redeemed his comments.
Also, ESPN is just a joke. Now projecting Bronny James as a top 10 pick next year. Ahead of Noah Clowney who is basically averaging a double double as a freshman in the SEC on a top 3 team. Ahead of Bufkin from Michigan who is averaging 13 as a sophomore but averaging over his last 7 games on 55% 3P shooting against multiple top 25 opponents. Above numerous other top 15 recruits from his own class....sweet clickbait. I shouldn't be surprised I guess.
For everything good that eSPN does, they do 3 stupid things. I doubt that will ever change.
Concerning Reddick, I always thought he was just a 3 point chucker and little else. Then I heard a couple different NBA coaches of his talk about how he was the hardest working guy that they have coached. He is what Herro should aspire to be.
If you read more into it, Leonard did the right thing when something like this happens. He sincerely apologized and has since worked with numerous rabbis and Jewish orgs in Miami, back in Champaign, and elsewhere. And much of that was well after he got the boot, so it wasn't some immediate saving of face. Time, effort, and education goes farther than a knee jerk donation.
Some bigotry or hate speech comes from true hate, some comes from ignorance. The latter can be corrected and educated far easier. If it was indeed the latter, kudos to him for attempting to make amends and better himself and believe he deserves a second chance
He wouldn't get a 2nd chance if he kneeled during the anthem, he would have upset a different demographic that is less forgiving.
He wouldn't get a 2nd chance if he kneeled during the anthem, he would have upset a different demographic that is less forgiving.He would never need a 2nd chance if he kneeled during the anthem.
Bucks front office needs to listen more to scoop ball knowers
Lots of D in Clips/Kings
Warriors have some of the worst depth I’ve ever seen. Anthony Lamb and Ty Jerome shouldn’t get minutes on any team not tanking for Wemby, regardless of injuries. Jerome could be one of the worst fits for that organization I’ve ever seen. He’s a good 3P shooter but slow and terrible with the ball and off the dribble
And the Wolves are still going to lose to them without Steph and Draymond. What a clusterf*ck of a franchise.
I’m overreacting to one game, but the Gobert trade didn’t make sense at the time and looks dumber each day.
You're not overreacting. It was an awful deal at the time and is going to hamstring the Wolves for years. They drafted Walker Kessler, traded him to Utah, and his advanced stats show that at worst is a slight step down from Gobert.
(Not that I am saying he's a better player, but you plug him in that line up and you have saved a bunch of cap space and all your draft picks.)
Probably not the best day for Powerade to announce Ja Morant as an endorser…
If allegations are true, suspend him for a year minimum.
On one hand, Ja has been acting like an absolute moron off the court all season.
On the other hand, the kid who presented the allegation has a mother who has had at least 3 lawsuits thrown out in court recently and tried to shake down Ja for $20MM from this
Westbrook obviously is highly skilled but does he really "fit" anywhere?
Yeah the Hall of Fame.
Not that conference player of the month awards mean anything. But Brunson got Eastern Conference Player of the Month for February with his team going 9-2 and him averaging 27/6/4. The Bucks went 10-0 and Giannis averaged 29/12/6. And those numbers include two games where Giannis combined for 6 points, 11 rebounds, and 7 assists in 15 total minutes. In the 8 games he actually made it out of the 1st quarter healthy, he averaged 36/13/7.
Not that conference player of the month awards mean anything. But Brunson got Eastern Conference Player of the Month for February with his team going 9-2 and him averaging 27/6/4. The Bucks went 10-0 and Giannis averaged 29/12/6. And those numbers include two games where Giannis combined for 6 points, 11 rebounds, and 7 assists in 15 total minutes. In the 8 games he actually made it out of the 1st quarter healthy, he averaged 36/13/7.
Shoula traded giannis for brunson, ai’na?
Not that conference player of the month awards mean anything. But Brunson got Eastern Conference Player of the Month for February with his team going 9-2 and him averaging 27/6/4. The Bucks went 10-0 and Giannis averaged 29/12/6. And those numbers include two games where Giannis combined for 6 points, 11 rebounds, and 7 assists in 15 total minutes. In the 8 games he actually made it out of the 1st quarter healthy, he averaged 36/13/7.
Is there a reason the Bucks might sign Dragic?
Is there a reason the Bucks might sign Dragic?
i see that-goran turned us down a couple of times for whatever reasons, but now i guess we're a little better looking. jevon's been playing really good. is he insurance against...? giving jevon a break moving jrue to SG? i would like to see more of aj green as he's been an absolute sniper from outside
That's my point Rocket. I like Carter as the back up PG.
jevon's been actually starting some/most recent games though
gotta find games to give giannis breaks. not NOT playing him at all, but less PT. they must have let mamakushaveli or whatever go? was he part of a trade? they tried playing him more and i didn't think he looked good at all. actually it might have cost him some value
Y'all are over thinking this. Dragic gives you another guard for depth purposes. Mamu was just taking up a roster spot.
Jae played with the Dragon on the Heat team that made it to the championship a few years back. If Dragic hadn't been injured, the Heat win that series. Dragic is a little old, but he's a killer. As a Heat fan I'd love to have him back.
Met him in Miami last year while he was on the Raptor's roster. Really nice guy.
Jae played with the Dragon on the Heat team that made it to the championship a few years back. If Dragic hadn't been injured, the Heat win that series. Dragic is a little old, but he's a killer. As a Heat fan I'd love to have him back.
Met him in Miami last year while he was on the Raptor's roster. Really nice guy.
Incredible loss by the Celtics tonight
Ja Morant showing how to light a promising NBA career on fire.
https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/.amp/news/los-angeles-lakers-lebron-james-dallas-mavs-ja-morant-gun-attack-teen-rumor
The guy is turning into a punk right before our eyes. He has gone from my favorite player to watch to a guy who I wouldn’t care if he got kicked out of the league today.
Harden steps into the lane shooting free throws before the ball hits the rim every time he shoots them.
But Giannis'emails10 second violations!
Separately, I'm glad that we decided to just stop the focus on points of emphasis so Harden still put up points. It's a much better league when he can grift contact.
Pretty bad loss there. Why Bud refuses to run the offense through Jrue and Brook when they’re hot is beyond me. Khris looked awful.
The only positive is those calls do go called less often come playoff time, so he has no idea how to play in the playoffs.
Pretty bad loss there. Why Bud refuses to run the offense through Jrue and Brook when they’re hot is beyond me. Khris looked awful.
Offense wasn’t the problem, though. When you give up 45 in the 4th and lose by 3 - that’s on the defense. Philly scored almost every time down the floor in the last 8 minutes.
Down 4 with 25 seconds left, Lopez/Allen/Holiday are a combined 14/21 from 3 and you have Middleton taking a fading 3 on a curl when he has 6 points on the night and is shooting 30% from 3 in the last 10 games? Thats, ummm, a choice?
Offense wasn’t the problem, though. When you give up 45 in the 4th and lose by 3 - that’s on the defense. Philly scored almost every time down the floor in the last 8 minutes.
"The side of Ja Morant the media doesn't show (https://twitter.com/TroIIedByJimmy/status/1632831160949657602)." Ummm...who are those dudes with the cameras and media credentials hanging around their necks? LOL
I like Ja (despite what he did to us). I think he's one of the most exciting young players in the League. Until very recently, I don't think the media has missed too many opportunities to show Ja a lot of love.
"The side of Ja Morant the media doesn't show (https://twitter.com/TroIIedByJimmy/status/1632831160949657602)." Ummm...who are those dudes with the cameras and media credentials hanging around their necks? LOLThe title of the post boarders on being hilarious with irony. LOL, thanks for posting.
I like Ja (despite what he did to us). I think he's one of the most exciting young players in the League. Until very recently, I don't think the media has missed too many opportunities to show Ja a lot of love.
I’ll never understand why Bud doesn’t run the offense through Brook when it bogs down. The guy is the Bucks’ best half court option. Can pick and roll and finish the lob, pick and pop and hit the 3, has a little Dirk-like fade from the mid range. He’s incredibly skilled for a guy his size. Every time 2 of the Bucks’ big 3 are out he goes for 25+.
I’m also convinced that while his raw rebounding numbers aren’t impressive for a guy his size, he’s the most important player to a team’s rebounding in the NBA. The Bucks are the best rebounding team in the league, but when he goes to the bench they give up second shots galore.
It's an interesting point. Is Middleton playing anywhere near his pre-injury level? When I have watched the Bucks I haven't been particularly impressed with their h-c offense. Obviously, Giannis destroys in transition but I think they can run a more fluid and efficient offense in the h-c.
Middleton looked good the second time he came back up until the Sixers game. He looked good again tonight. They need to start taking the training wheels off and ramping him up, because he needs to be right up there with Jrue in production for the Bucks to win a title.
I'm also concerned they gave up like 50 points in tbe 4Q to Philly the other night. I agree with your basic point. I will also add that Giannis needs to figure out Boston's flopping, I mean defense. He commits way too many offensive fouls vs the C's and doesn't shoot a particularly high percentage. If he takes his time a bit in lieu of bowling people over he can get what he wants in the paint. I think Budenholzer needs to make an adjustment vs them.
Yeah, I am not really concerned about the Bucks. Pretty sure they will make to the ECF. Not sure if they can get past Boston, but they have made a bunch of good moves and are set up fine.
Their goal is not making the ECF or Finals Fluffy.
That J.J. Reddick vs Perk video is worth seeing.
Perk needs to get off the air.
Guy constantly gets body bagged and never says anything remotely intelligent. Reddick put him in his place baaaaaaaad.
Perk needs to get off the air.
Guy constantly gets body bagged and never says anything remotely intelligent. Reddick put him in his place baaaaaaaad.
I think both have completely fair points at the core. But Perk clumsily phrased his as "voters are just racist" instead of a more realistic or nuanced take on racial biases, perceived or otherwise, and then just screaming about facts when opposed. But thats what ESPN wants.
Pat is playing so much because we need to get him back into form for the Playoffs. He has been a huge piece for the Bucks in each of the last 2 Playoffs. And because Middleton and Grayson are out tonight, so somebody needs to be on the court. Jae and Joe are playing a lot.
Do you trust Grayson Allen? I suppose it's nice to have options.
Bucks are the first NBA team to clinch a playoff berth and they've opened a 3-game lead over the Mighty Celtics, who are closer to falling out of second place in the East than they are to catching the Bucks.
If they stay healthy, the Bucks are the best top-to-bottom team in the NBA. They also have the league's best player for sure.
Maybe.....I hope you're right.
The Celtics in particular draw an insane amount of offensive fouls vs Antetokounmpo. Tatum also can go bananas like be did when Milwaukee had a chance to clinch G6 last year. I think on paper the Bucks have enough weapons but will these auxiliary players step-up and is Middleton going to be his old self? It seems to me the Bucks take too many threes and overpressure the ball a bit. Holiday can pressure effectively but there's no reason for anyone else to smother the basketball. I'm watching Joe Ingles last next getting up in guys' grills as am example. Why? It leads to open triples and wide open shots vs good teams.
Bucks are the first NBA team to clinch a playoff berth and they've opened a 3-game lead over the Mighty Celtics, who are closer to falling out of second place in the East than they are to catching the Bucks.
If they stay healthy, the Bucks are the best top-to-bottom team in the NBA. They also have the league's best player for sure.
When healthy, this is the best Bucks team of my lifetime, and that includes the title team. Giannis is absolutely unreal.
Yeah this roster top to bottom is really stacked. Lotta smart veteran guys who know how to play.
I absolutely loved the Ingles closing lineup last night. Initiate PNR and irritate the hell out of CP.
Bucks are the first NBA team to clinch a playoff berth and they've opened a 3-game lead over the Mighty Celtics, who are closer to falling out of second place in the East than they are to catching the Bucks.
If they stay healthy, the Bucks are the best top-to-bottom team in the NBA. They also have the league's best player for sure.
Yeah this roster top to bottom is really stacked. Lotta smart veteran guys who know how to play.
I absolutely loved the Ingles closing lineup last night. Initiate PNR and irritate the hell out of CP.
I hope you're all correct. Remember Boston will flop a lot with Giannis. He must avoid those cheap fouls.
Again, Giannis averaged 34, 15, 7, 1, and 1 over a 7 game series without his best teammate against the C's last year. You get 6 fouls in the NBA. It's not very often you see guys fouling out.
His overall efficiency was not at his top level and he had a poor G7 for his standards.
Yup. His best teammate was out. They were collapsing their defense on him and making him work for his points.
But you've talked me into it. Bucks should just stop playing, trade Giannis, Middleton, and Jrue for 1 overall and a future first, and build around Wemby and MarJon since they won't beat the C's until Tatum and Brown retire anyway.
That Jordan Poole contract isn't really working out. Is he movable?
What?!!
Did anyone see that Mavs "controversyz" last night? That team is a dumpster fire.Saw it. I think it is reasonable for the Mavs to expect the refs to communicate that the possession was going to GS. Would have taken the refs 5 seconds to clear up the confusion.
Can't exactly "blame" Kyrie, but the Mavs are an absolute train wreck since the trade. He and Luka have zero chemistry -- they mostly take turns either hoisting long 3s or driving to the hoop with tunnel vision -- the team plays no defense, and the powers-that-be have a heck of a job trying to figure out how to make that franchise a legit contender.
Kyrie had no chemistry in Boston, no chemistry in Brooklyn, and now no chemistry in Dallas. All after he wanted out of Cleveland.Biggest winning culture killer since Melo?
I wonder who is to blame. I think it’s a dead heat between Kyrie and whoever made the deal.
Biggest winning culture killer since Melo?
Interesting comparison. Melo never really fit in any scheme that didn't revolve around him, but he was well-liked and respected in locker rooms.True. Not a great comparison. I'll try again.
Interesting comparison. Melo never really fit in any scheme that didn't revolve around him, but he was well-liked and respected in locker rooms.
True. Not a great comparison. I'll try again.
I didn’t say it was a bad comparison- I think it was spot on.
There have been some horrible contracts over the years, but not too many worse than the one that will be dumping tens of millions of dollars on Ben Simmons for years to come.
Kyrie had no chemistry in Boston, no chemistry in Brooklyn, and now no chemistry in Dallas. All after he wanted out of Cleveland.
I wonder who is to blame. I think it’s a dead heat between Kyrie and whoever made the deal.
Just an addendum to the Willis Reed discussion:
I saw a bit in the news about the tornadoes in Mississippi and they had a discussion with Spencer Haywood - a guy I hadn’t thought about in a long time.
He was also a guy I would rate at least as high as Willis although in the NBA, he played both center and PF. I remembered him from back in the day when he played at Detroit in college who played the Warriors every year. He quit college after one year (averaged 30+ pts and 20+ rebounds), averaged about the same in the ABA and then became an all-star in the NBA before becoming a HoFer.
Jrue has 45/7/6 in 26 minutes so far tonight…
Jrue has 45/7/6 in 26 minutes so far tonight…
Bucks have put a couple defenders in body bags in the last couple minutes.
Also, if that was reversed and Grayson did that to Nwora people would be calling for him to be kicked out of basketball for forever.
What happened? I see Giannis has a decent stat line.
Giannis posterized Smith, then Nwora decked Grayson while Grayson was airborn posterizing him, sending him hard to the ground.
Those who know ball say, "peddle his ass," hey?
It looks like the Bucks will get the #1 seed. I believe 5 teams can win it: Milwaukee, Boston, Philly, Denver, Phoenix. I'm not sure Durabt has enough time to acclimate but we'll see.
It looks like the Bucks will get the #1 seed. I believe 5 teams can win it: Milwaukee, Boston, Philly, Denver, Phoenix. I'm not sure Durabt has enough time to acclimate but we'll see.Sorry to Bucks, Celtics, Denver fans, according to ESPN, its the Lakers and a bunch of "also rans".
Sorry to Bucks, Celtics, Denver fans, according to ESPN, its the Lakers and a bunch of "also rans".
According to who?The same ESPN folks who correctly picked the Cowboys to win the Super Bowl and Duke to win the National Championship on Monday night. ;D
The same ESPN folks who correctly picked the Cowboys to win the Super Bowl and Duke to win the National Championship on Monday night. ;D
Seriously I think it was on Mike Greenberg's show some NBA "experts" said the Lakers love their chances against the Nuggets, King, Suns, Griz. The "experts" agreed that the Lakers would beat all of them.
The same ESPN folks who correctly picked the Cowboys to win the Super Bowl and Duke to win the National Championship on Monday night. ;D
Seriously I think it was on Mike Greenberg's show some NBA "experts" said the Lakers love their chances against the Nuggets, King, Suns, Griz. The "experts" agreed that the Lakers would beat all of them.
Why do you watch ESPN?I know, right? Actually was listening to XM Radio. Not much better but I do enjoy Greenberg.
I know, right? Actually was listening to XM Radio. Not much better but I do enjoy Greenberg.
I don't remember which 'Experts" were in love with the Lakers. Maybe someone else can tell me. It's not a big deal, was trying to poke fun at ESPN's love with the Lakers. Maybe I'm alone in getting that vibe from ESPN.
I see the Bucks are down 14 to the C's st Fiserv?? WTF??
Season is over
This is extremely concerning whether people want to admit it or not.
No, it isn’t
I see the Bucks are down 14 to the C's st Fiserv?? WTF??
They're getting their ass handed to them Uncle R! How is this not a problem?
Can you actually believe that though without asking scoop for confirmation?
Is it worth more than one game in the standings? Is it a game 7? Is the game over?
It matters that they are getting massacred on their home floor and seemingly can't guard them at all.
Dude. It matters very little. Bucks don't want to show any new defensive wrinkles. And they can't hit anything from three.
Unless they tank completely and lose the top seed this is a blip.
I disagree.
So when you don’t actually watch the game and rely on scoop to confirm the score, it kinda proves that you have no clue what you’re talking about. One team played last night, one didn’t. The vast majority of the misses are coming up short. Celtics are hitting a ton of tough contested threes that are defended pretty well. Doable over a half, unsustainable over a seven game series. Relax.
None of you are looking at this rationally. It's a big, big, problem if you give up 75 points in the 1H, on your home floor, with both teams fully healthy, to the team that is your biggest challenge to winning the title. If you guys choose to live in la-la land there's nothing I can do. Facts ate facts and I now have zero confidence the Bucks can beat the Celtics in a 7 game series.
How do the Bucks have a better record than the greatest team in NBA history? Why are fans of the greatest team in history afraid of the 76ers?
Relax. Go smoke a bowl
Breathe through your eyes and visualize manatee calves.
I'm not. I am encouraging you to find your happy place.
None of you are looking at this rationally. It's a big, big, problem if you give up 75 points in the 1H, on your home floor, with both teams fully healthy, to the team that is your biggest challenge to winning the title. If you guys choose to live in la-la land there's nothing I can do. Facts ate facts and I now have zero confidence the Bucks can beat the Celtics in a 7 game series.
All of our marine mammals have suffered tremendously from human rapacity and a total lack of respect. We're talking about the most incredible animals on the entire freaking globe. It's excruciatingly sad and I don't have words to express my anger about this.
Manatees are flat blobs. Nothing incredible about them
This is blasphemous and prejudicial. They are heavy by nature.
They need to get high
Manatees are naturally 10-13 feet and weigh 2,000-3,500. It would be like criticizing an average man that's 5'9 and 160 lbs.
9 feet tall and can’t even dunk. Pathetic.
They are dead weight though.
Nothing interesting about them.
9 feet tall and can’t even dunk. Pathetic.
None of you are looking at this rationally. It's a big, big, problem if you give up 75 points in the 1H, on your home floor, with both teams fully healthy, to the team that is your biggest challenge to winning the title. If you guys choose to live in la-la land there's nothing I can do. Facts ate facts and I now have zero confidence the Bucks can beat the Celtics in a 7 game series.
I'm beyond relaxed. I have eyes and clarity regarding the 4-5 best NBA teams.
93 points for the C's with 6 mins left in tbe 3Q? Completely inexcusable.
None of you are looking at this rationally. It's a big, big, problem if you give up 75 points in the 1H, on your home floor, with both teams fully healthy, to the team that is your biggest challenge to winning the title. If you guys choose to live in la-la land there's nothing I can do. Facts ate facts and I now have zero confidence the Bucks can beat the Celtics in a 7 game series.
I see that the Padres blew a game against the lowly Rockies. Inexcusable.F the Padres-signed all older Cubs fans
Their season is over.
None of you are looking at this rationally. It's a big, big, problem if you give up 75 points in the 1H, on your home floor, with both teams fully healthy, to the team that is your biggest challenge to winning the title. If you guys choose to live in la-la land there's nothing I can do. Facts ate facts and I now have zero confidence the Bucks can beat the Celtics in a 7 game series.
I can't find the tweet, but expected result based on all shots taken throughout the game was a 5 point Bucks victory. Bucks were an extreme anomaly from the floor, particularly 3, and the Cs hit a bunch of absurd shots. It happens.
We all know you're insanely reactive but this kind of stuff makes it seem like you know next to nothing about NBA basketball.
To suggest that what happened last night isn't remotely concerned concerning is patently false.
To suggest that what happened last night isn't remotely concerned concerning is patently false.
To suggest that what happened last night isn't remotely concerned concerning is patently false.
I flat out disagree with most of you but I hope I'm wrong.
To suggest that what happened last night isn't remotely concerning is patently false.
Not being snarky or an ass, but how many full regular season NBA games do you watch a year? Actually watch, not just see highlights or cherrypick headlines. And how many of those are non-Bucks or Warriors games?
There are big time NBA fans here, some like myself with League Pass, who watch a ton of NBA who aren't that bothered by it. NBA writers and analysts on Twitter didn't even raise an eyebrow. Yet you're hysterically bothered by it and telling us we are all wrong.
The 20-21 Bucks lost by 31 at home to Denver in March. In May, weeks before the playoffs started, a full strength Bucks team lost to a terrible Spurs team by 21.
The Celtics lost 2 days ago by 20 to a Wizards team that wont make the playoffs. Denver lost at home to the Bulls by 20 2 weeks ago and Jokic had a near triple double.
The Bucks are fine, maybe take a break till the playoffs or you're gonna lose all credibility my man.
Not being snarky or an ass, but how many full regular season NBA games do you watch a year? Actually watch, not just see highlights or cherrypick headlines. And how many of those are non-Bucks or Warriors games?
There are big time NBA fans here, some like myself with League Pass, who watch a ton of NBA who aren't that bothered by it. NBA writers and analysts on Twitter didn't even raise an eyebrow. Yet you're hysterically bothered by it and telling us we are all wrong.
The 20-21 Bucks lost by 31 at home to Denver in March. In May, weeks before the playoffs started, a full strength Bucks team lost to a terrible Spurs team by 21.
The Celtics lost 2 days ago by 20 to a Wizards team that wont make the playoffs. Denver lost at home to the Bulls by 20 2 weeks ago and Jokic had a near triple double.
The Bucks are fine, maybe take a break till the playoffs or you're gonna lose all credibility my man.
Yes. If the C’s had won by 8 instead of 41 the Bucks probably wouldn’t have cared if they won the ECF or not.
The Bucks are 30-8 at home this year. The home fans have been treated just fine.
To suggest that what happened last night isn't remotely concerning is patently false.
Just an addendum to the Willis Reed discussion:Spencer , was an incredible player, livrd watching him dominate. Haywood, via Supreme Court litigation, also paved the way for Chones to leave.
I saw a bit in the news about the tornadoes in Mississippi and they had a discussion with Spencer Haywood - a guy I hadn’t thought about in a long time.
He was also a guy I would rate at least as high as Willis although in the NBA, he played both center and PF. I remembered him from back in the day when he played at Detroit in college who played the Warriors every year. He quit college after one year (averaged 30+ pts and 20+ rebounds), averaged about the same in the ABA and then became an all-star in the NBA before becoming a HoFer.
Most importantly, Spencer was married to Iman for 10 years , she married David Bowie after that."
that musta been before cell phones eyn'a? ;D
With all due respect, Muggs ... a few months ago, you were suggesting that the Celtics were an unbeatable juggernaut and the Bucks were doomed.
It's a regular-season basketball game. The Celtics have lost a bunch of them the last couple of months to a lot worse teams than the Bucks.
I completely disagree with you but hope you're 100% right. Getting blown out like that at home, at the end of the season, is different than a normal reg season game. The Celtics losing to other teams isn't relevant. There are two teams in the East that can beat the Bucks: Boston and Philly. Hopefully Milwaukee holds onto to #1 seed. That said, having watched Boston dismantle them, I don't have a lot of confidence the Bucks came beat them in a 7 game series. Mainly because they cannot guard their two best players at all and also the Bucks don't have a plan B against them when they're bricking threes.
They should just forfeit if they run into the C’s.
That's silly of course. I'm just sharing what my eyes saw the other night.
That’s the problem everyone here has. You watch one game and base your judgement on that alone. Just as you did earlier with Boston.
A good rule of thumb - a team is never as good as they look when they are hot or as bad as they look when cold.
Again, it's keeping in mind the specific game and when it was played.
Again, it's keeping in mind the specific game and when it was played.
Why is that important?
Jojo should have been at MU for a year and been drafted by the Bucks. Can you even imagine the Antetokounmpo/Embiid combination? WTF were they thinking with Parker?
I decided to go out for Bucks/Sixers. Very interested to see how Milwaukee responds today.
Don’t even bother, the sky is falling remember. They will be lucky to be within 20 of the Sixers tonight…oh wait…
Not a good start to the 2H at all.
Good win for the Bucks but I still have a number of concerns. We all know what the ECF will be.
I completely disagree with you but hope you're 100% right. Getting blown out like that at home, at the end of the season, is different than a normal reg season game. The Celtics losing to other teams isn't relevant. There are two teams in the East that can beat the Bucks: Boston and Philly. Hopefully Milwaukee holds onto to #1 seed. That said, having watched Boston dismantle them, I don't have a lot of confidence the Bucks can beat them in a 7 game series. Mainly because they cannot guard their two best players at all and also the Bucks don't have a plan B against them when they're bricking threes.
I love ya, Muggs, but you can be exhausting.
They should just forfeit if they run into the C’s.The C's better hope they don't run into the Bulls, who beat them twice. ;)
Bucks season put down the drain by the C’s. Bucks then smoke the 76ers, ending their season. Now the 76ers end the C’s season tonight. My mind is blown. Bulls going to win the title by default.
Brown didn't play tonight.
Brown didn't play tonight.
Fair enough. Fully healthy C’s lost to half of the Wizard’s team last week and ended the C’s season. C’s ended the Bucks season last week with a loss the franchise can never come back from. Bucks best Wizards. My head is exploding. Give the title and the Wemby sweepstakes both to Pop and the Spurs.
What Will Wemby do by year 2?
Wembanyama had a one-hand dunk finish on a rebound the other night that demonstrated his instincts, athletic ability and basketball skill.
But the reaction to the play -- with it becoming a social media phenomenon and with one NBA executive telling somebody at ESPN that it showed how Wembanyama will dominate the league for years -- was so typically over the top.
It was a heckuva play. As are many plays that NBA players make in any given week. As were many plays that Zion Williamson routinely made at Duke. (Remember him?)
The above doesn't mean I'm doubting the kid. It certainly looks like he'll be a hell of a player, maybe even a once-a-decade talent. But I'm willing to ... I don't know ... see how he actually does in the NBA for a year or two before I crown his arse.
I think part of the insane hype surrounding Wemby is beyond his unicorn measurements and skill set, its the jump he took. Always been a tantalizing and freakish prospect, but was still raw. 2 seasons ago he averaged 9 and 5 in the top French League. At the same age, Luka was averaging 16/5/5 on a better team in a better league and winning player of the week/month honors in the best non-NBA competition in the world.
Within a year, he's exploded production-wise and is now averaging 21/10/2 with over 3 blocks a game. So he's suddenly looking a lot less raw before he comes to the NBA.
Was the reaction a bit over the top? Sure. However, devils advocate, I firmly object to "There are many "heckuva plays" made any given week". There are maybe 2-3 players in the NBA, including Giannis, that could have made that play. It wasn't following up a miss. He shot a step back fade away 3 and recovered to put back dunk. Thats just preposterous. From someone who was already thought of as the best prospect in a decade plus by non-ESPN click generators.
Not sure why the random Zion throw in. Sure he's had injury problems, but he's a 2 time All Star who has averaged 26/7/4 before the age of 22. Not the best "Dont count the chickens before they hatch in the NBA" sort of example.
I think part of the insane hype surrounding Wemby is beyond his unicorn measurements and skill set, its the jump he took. Always been a tantalizing and freakish prospect, but was still raw. 2 seasons ago he averaged 9 and 5 in the top French League. At the same age, Luka was averaging 16/5/5 on a better team in a better league and winning player of the week/month honors in the best non-NBA competition in the world.
Within a year, he's exploded production-wise and is now averaging 21/10/2 with over 3 blocks a game. So he's suddenly looking a lot less raw before he comes to the NBA.
Was the reaction a bit over the top? Sure. However, devils advocate, I firmly object to "There are many "heckuva plays" made any given week". There are maybe 2-3 players in the NBA, including Giannis, that could have made that play. It wasn't following up a miss. He shot a step back fade away 3 and recovered to put back dunk. Thats just preposterous. From someone who was already thought of as the best prospect in a decade plus by non-ESPN click generators.
Not sure why the random Zion throw in. Sure he's had injury problems, but he's a 2 time All Star who has averaged 26/7/4 before the age of 22. Not the best "Dont count the chickens before they hatch in the NBA" sort of example.
NBA guys make eye-popping, holy-crap plays all the time. It seems like Anthony Edwards makes one every week. Maybe not that exact play, but some kind of incredible play.
Where's Zion now? Where was he most of last season? Zion is absolutely wonderful ... when he plays. He was the last uber-hyped phenom, but he can't stay on the court.
Middleton left the game with a knee boo-boo. Now, you can be concerned
Middleton left the game with a knee boo-boo. Now, you can be concerned
He doesn't appear to be close to the player he once was.
Again, there are literally 2-3 players who could possibly do what he did. Its not a holy crap play. Anthony Edwards is an athletic freak. So is Ja. But I struggle to a remember a highlight of theirs that nobody else could physically do. Its like a some of Mahomes throws or a one of Zlatan's freakish angle perfect volleys. Its not just another holy crap play, its a play that 99% of the most talented players in that particular sport just are not physically able to accomplish.
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt, but you're coming off like a douche trying to make some strange point. Because an uber hyped prospect has had some injuries, you're skeptical about the next uber hyped prospect (with no significant injury history) until he plays...ok. Strange hill to die on. Thats like assuming an NFL prospect should be viewed with skepticism cause the last star at his position from his school wasn't good.
And again, acting like Zion is Greg Oden and some sort of bust card comp to hold contrarian skepticism for Wemby is making you seem like you don't even follow the NBA. 3 unrelated injuries, the first 2 that he came back from to put up absurd, All Star caliber numbers. But sure "WhErE iz ZiOn?!"
But go ahead, claim to love good basketball and side eye a player that has all sorts of people non-excitable basketball people excited cause it makes you seem so measured and wise.
Let me clear: I am rooting for the Bucks to win. Obviously, it's championship or bust. But assuming they play the Celtics in the ECF I think the Celtics are the favorite based on what I have witnessed.
Are you going to say this 4 times a day until the finals, or 5 times?
Well I haven't heard anyone disagree with me to be honest. It's been more or less that the regular season head to head is irrelevant.
So why do you need to keep repeating it daily?
One team has a 3 game lead in the standings. One team has a core that has won a title.
But that team stands no chance to beat the C’s, I guess. Even though they pushed the C’s to 7 without their second best player.
Fun run for the Bucks. They should trade everyone that can get them assets back. All their guys are older than the C’s best players, and the Bucks have no chance as long as the C’s are around.
But assuming they play the Celtics in the ECF I think the Celtics are the favorite based on what I have witnessed.
Well I haven't heard anyone disagree with me to be honest. It's been more or less that the regular season head to head is irrelevant.
Nobody's disagreed with you? Ive said multiple times this is the best Bucks team of my lifetime, better than the championship team. The Cs are very good but I don't think this is an appreciably better Cs team than anyone the Bucks have beaten in the past. Playoff injuries and form matter.
The Bucks are the 1 seed and exceptionally good. Speculating on more than that based off of day to day results is silly, and thats what people are objecting to.
Nobody's disagreed with you? Ive said multiple times this is the best Bucks team of my lifetime, better than the championship team. The Cs are very good but I don't think this is an appreciably better Cs team than anyone the Bucks have beaten in the past. Playoff injuries and form matter.
Durant and Irving have turned their new teams into hot garbage. The Suns, especially, looked brutally awful last night. They’ll lose in the 1st round if they play like that.
Not speaking to Kyrie, but about Durant, this is a Muggsy level take.
Since the Suns aquired Durant, they've went 12-6 and the only bad loss was the Thunder (The others were Kings x2, Bucks, Warriors, and Lakers on the road). They didn't look great last night, but a W is a W. They are 8-0 with Durant in the lineup and have won 7 straight. Not sure how Durant turned them into hot garbage :o
Not speaking to Kyrie, but about Durant, this is a Muggsy level take.
Since the Suns aquired Durant, they've went 12-6 and the only bad loss was the Thunder (The others were Kings x2, Bucks, Warriors, and Lakers on the road). They didn't look great last night, but a W is a W. They are 8-0 with Durant in the lineup and have won 7 straight. Not sure how Durant turned them into hot garbage :o
Hmm.
Lol. We get it. You don’t like Kevin Durant.
I think the biggest problem for the Suns is that they have no alpha. That's not gonna change.
Durant and Irving have turned their new teams into hot garbage. The Suns, especially, looked brutally awful last night. They’ll lose in the 1st round if they play like that.
The only player I mentioned is Booker.
The beautiful thing is that we get to find out how good the Suns will be in the playoffs, whether they have an alpha, whether Durant will be good for them, etc.
You’ll either get to say I told you so, or you’ll be proven wrong.
Rudy Gobert is genuniely a piece of sh it human being.
What an awful trade for an awful player and person
Donovan Mitchell gives your post a thumbs up.
Rudy Gobert is genuniely a piece of sh it human being.
What an awful trade for an awful player and person
I don't think he's a POS. I don't care for him at all and think he's a one trick pony, but I don't think he's a POS, like Dillon Brooks is. I just think he's Charmin Soft and a diva, none of which he's good enough of a player to be. Yesterday was a hissy fit. But I agree the trade for him was monumentally stupid. (I'm assuming a big piece of your argument is the stupid COVID mic incident, which was dumb and childish but otherwise forgettable if he wasn't such a baby.
Clearly not a great guy though. And just an all around awful trade. I am thankful that I am not a Wolves fan the same way I am MU or the other Minny pro teams. Id be irate at what they gave up if I actually cared enough.
I don’t know if it’s a hot take, but given the choice of a combo guard, I’m taking Dejounte Murray over Trae Young all day
I don’t know if it’s a hot take, but given the choice of a combo guard, I’m taking Dejounte Murray over Trae Young all day
Its not at all. Young blows.
When Wolves played the Hawks recently it was incredible how much better they are without him on the floor. Young is horrendous defensively. The offense is him just over dribbling the whole possesion and throwing wild passes or pray for fouls that are not fouls(not kidding replay showed the Wolves player flat out missed him on his Rowsey attempt twice).
There is zero chance that guy ever gets a ring unless hes the 9th man at some point.
Its not at all. Young blows.
When Wolves played the Hawks recently it was incredible how much better they are without him on the floor. Young is horrendous defensively. The offense is him just over dribbling the whole possesion and throwing wild passes or pray for fouls that are not fouls(not kidding replay showed the Wolves player flat out missed him on his Rowsey attempt twice).
There is zero chance that guy ever gets a ring unless hes the 9th man at some point.
Wolves had 9 pts all 4th qtr before that Davis foul.
Stopped running offense. Never seen anything like it. KAT is soft. Ant is simply not ready for the moment. Choked last year vs Memphis. Had quite possibly the worst game of all time tonight
I have never see a guy play that bad and be that afraid to drive. Just launching bad shots he couldnt get close on.
At least the Wolves got 3 free throws in the entire second half. Even if the free throw difference in the second half was 19-0 until 0.1 seconds left in the game, when it moved to a very tight 19-3.
Lakers on the season:
Drives per game (44): 23rd
FTs per game (27): 1st
FT disparity: +411 (1st) next closest team +193
NBA isn't even trying to hide it anymore.
Hide what? The Wolves were shooting jump shots the whole time. Edwards had no desire to attack the rim.
Which doesn't explain a +411 free throw disparity when the second best in the NBA is well under half that.
Hide what? The Wolves were shooting jump shots the whole time. Edwards had no desire to attack the rim.
I felt like, in part, they shifted to shooting jump shots, because the officials were letting the Lakers get away with a lot of grabbing/fouling when they did attack the rim.
Well I didn’t watch Laker every game. And I’m not a conspiracy nut. So I guess I’m not informed enough and/or don’t have enough tin foil to have a strong opinion on that.
The discrepancy doesn't sound weird to you? +411 and the next best is +193? WTF?
The Bulls are a dumpster fire. They have to find a way to completely start over.As a Bulls fan, my favorite player is LaVine, because he is stealing so much money from Reinsdorf.
More proof:
FT don’t matter.
They don’t even need to keep much. They have 15…FIFTEEN, first rounders in the next 5 years. Keep SGA and Giddey and then use everyone and those picks to build around them
They don’t even need to keep much. They have 15…FIFTEEN, first rounders in the next 5 years. Keep SGA and Giddey and then use everyone and those picks to build around them
Wonder if Luka is taking a look at all that young talent on OKC
just read demar derozan's 9 year old daughter needed security escort from toronto. she was sitting in a row near the front letting out monster screams whenever an ooposing player went to line. pretty gutsy at opposing venue. i'm surprised someone didn't tell her to chill. after the game, demar was being interviewed and she tried to come up to daddy and security wisked her away.
i was at a chicago blackhawks-detroit flyers game a few years ago. my bro in law had season tix around row 10 or so and this dude from detroit was very boisterously talking a lot of chit. didn't take long for a hawks fan to say "respect the venue" and he was fairly sedate the rest of the way. they don't call it the "city of big shoulders" for nothing
yes, everyone has the right to scream, but there may be consequences as well. 9 year old, 16 year old or 60 year old... someone should have reined her in for her own safety. that was a big game
She was fine.
she was fine. she's also a little cutey but do it a few times-fine, but i believe it was a little bit over the top.
for her own safety, someone probably should have told her to chill, have a soda or something to cool down those vocal cords.
in today's world, there are some nasty people who could take this too far. needed to be an adult in the area to give her a little bit of guidance, that's all
She was fine.
Yea. If TNT didn’t show her constantly, it would have been a complete non issue.
yes, but that's what the media does. someone would have sought out who the hell is screaming like a banshee every time a toronto player is shooting throws and seemingly effectively given the dismal 18/36 ft %. when the security issue came about, it became even more of an issue
she was held out of friday nights game at miami-smart move. demar, however said that he allowed her to be at toronto game as it held some significance given that is where demar got his nba start
i still hold that someone should have told her after the first few, chill and enjoy the game. the world is filled with bad people, especially those who have a financial stake in the games.
oh, and yes sully, i'm sure she will be fine, but...the world is filled with f'ed up people
Who ya got in these series? I'm not sure why everyone is assuming Golden St. and the Lakers are going to win their 1st rd.
I just have a feeling the Kings are gonna beat the Warriors. Talk about a "nothing to lose" scenario -- is anybody outside of Sacramento picking the Kings?
Overall, I'm going with a repeat of the 2021 NBA Finals, with the Bucks again beating the Suns.
But as I think back on my NCAA tourney bracket, that probably means both will lose in the first round!
Let's all hope the Bucks get it together before facing Boston in the ECF.
No kidding. But she was doing nothing wrong. So why are you concerning yourself about the actions of a potential victim?
This is the equivalent of “if you don’t want to be raped, don’t dress slutty.”
Pretty horrible playoffs so far if you enjoy any semblance of competent offense oriented basketball. Play in games were brutal, Hawks were horrific, Nets played only 1 quarter, and the start of this Knicks Cavs game is eye bleeding
Pretty horrible playoffs so far if you enjoy any semblance of competent offense oriented basketball. Play in games were brutal, Hawks were horrific, Nets played only 1 quarter, and the start of this Knicks Cavs game is eye bleeding
Pretty horrible playoffs so far if you enjoy any semblance of competent offense oriented basketball. Play in games were brutal, Hawks were horrific, Nets played only 1 quarter, and the start of this Knicks Cavs game is eye bleeding
I haven't been impressed either. How can they make tbe NBA game better?
you should have quit while you were ahead before using one of the worst analogies possible, but quite revealing of your persona. i never said she "did anything wrong" but could have been used as a teaching moment. 9 year olds could use a little more of that
Definitely foul if you're Sacramento.
Fun.
We had a family outing so the only hoops I watched was the last 4 minutes of this game. Kings showed some serious cajones.
I don’t remember ever seeing a competitive playoff game (or any game) where there were no timeouts called by either coach in the last 5 1/2 minutes.
Except of course for the TO with 2.9 seconds left to move the ball to the front court for the final shot.
Both teams were playing so well that neither coach wanted to stop the action on the floor.
I don’t remember ever seeing a competitive playoff game (or any game) where there were no timeouts called by either coach in the last 5 1/2 minutes.
Except of course for the TO with 2.9 seconds left to move the ball to the front court for the final shot.
Both teams were playing so well that neither coach wanted to stop the action on the floor.
MU fans have a recent lesson in how thumb issues can affect a.player.
The guy averaged 19 and 12 this year shooting .615 from the floor. His stats for the last month have been fine. I have no idea what he was doing yesterday vs a team he should have zero problems scoring against. He was abysmal from point blank range and needs to settle down Tower.
The Kings won’t win a game in the series if he plays like that
He and Heurter have to play better if they're going to win the series imo. I believe Sacramento's best is better than GS.
Wut…
GS’s best win a title last year and replaced Potter with DiVencenzo and Damion Lee with a much improved Kuminga. They finished only 4 games back from the Kings despite missing one of their 3 best players for half the season. There is a reason the Warriors are favored in the series, even down 1
There's a reason the Warriors cannot win on the road. We'll see what happens. Three of Sacramento's starters were really bad yesterday.
I missed it....did Davis get hurt again?His arm fell off
His arm fell off
What had Giannis done on the previous possession?
Assuming Giannis can get back, the trash basketball of Love and Lowry will be a good warmup for the Celtics
He’s out for the game. No bueno
He’s out for the game. No bueno
What had Giannis done on the previous possession?
Assuming Giannis can get back, the trash basketball of Love and Lowry will be a good warmup for the Celtics
There was nothing “trash” about what Love did. Just trying to get a charge call. I don’t understand how Giannis went down flipping around and falling on his back. Unless he was trying to sell a block.
There was nothing “trash” about what Love did. Just trying to get a charge call. I don’t understand how Giannis went down flipping around and falling on his back. Unless he was trying to sell a block.
Totally trash. But it’s not Love’s fault. It’s what we’ve rewarded in college and pro basketball for a number of years now.
Totally trash. But it’s not Love’s fault. It’s what we’ve rewarded in college and pro basketball for a number of years now.
What is the explanation for giving up 68 points at half?
Ja and Giannis both injured in game 1 because a defender slid under them instead of actually challenging a shot. Congratulations NBA. You dug your own grave.
Very disappointing performance by the Bucks including Budenholzer's coaching.
30% of the players on the court during an NBA Playoff game are MU alums. So weird
Time for #22 ta earn his scratch, aina?He's aight.
Peddle his ass, hey?
If the Bucks players tried 75% as hard as the Heat players do on defense, this might have been a game. How do you let a guy with 35 points dribble unguarded until he's 4ft below the free throw line and let him shoot uncontested?
Giannis injury aside, the story is a positive outlier game for the Heat from 3, and a negative outlier for the Bucks. Decent chance neither is sustainable
Giannis has to play better
Milwaukee wasn't prepared and played with the intensity of a 🦥. These are concerning attributes. The good news is this could wake them up.
Make or miss league.
We can cite intensity, preparedness, or any other unquantifiable cliche crap that's always "inexcusable" but if the Bucks make a few more threes they probably win that game.
If Giannis is out for an extended period, it don’t matter
Game one of the playoffs and we’ve already decided the Bucks don’t hustle and Bud is a bad coach. 🙄🙄🙄
Westbrook is probably having the best playoff game ever turned in by a guy shooting 3-for-19.
Westbrook is probably having the best playoff game ever turned in by a guy shooting 3-for-19.
Westbrook is probably having the best playoff game ever turned in by a guy shooting 3-for-19.
Really bizarre game. He had multiple jumpers, including from 3, that didn't even hit rim. He looked clueless as to what to do when PHX sealed off driving lanes and he didn't have an easy kick out...but then he came up HUGE to close it out. Enigmatic like most of his career honestly.
The Westbrook/fan incident last night is so weird. I've always felt letting fans line up along the tunnel as players go to and from the locker rooms is weird as can be. It's like their zoo animals and the fans get to just gawk at them as they walk by. Then you have the fact that they're in the heat of competition and some fans are dumb enough to try to talk trash to them and it's just a complete no win situation. Totally unnecessary.
I do love that the fan stands up. Westbrook would've knocked that guy out in a heartbeat.
While Ive supported Westbrook when he stood up to some racial insults in the past, I'm pretty sure I read that the dude called him "Westbrick"...which you shouldn't be losing you sh** over when you just went 3 for 19.
Also, while Westbrook, or nearly any other NBA athlete, would wipe out the average fan, I actually respect the dude standing up to face him when 95% of idiot hecklers pull the "Homer receding into the bushes" move whenever called out or confronted or meekly put their hands up like "just joking friend!"
While Ive supported Westbrook when he stood up to some racial insults in the past, I'm pretty sure I read that the dude called him "Westbrick"...which you shouldn't be losing you sh** over when you just went 3 for 19.
Also, while Westbrook, or nearly any other NBA athlete, would wipe out the average fan, I actually respect the dude standing up to face him when 95% of idiot hecklers pull the "Homer receding into the bushes" move whenever called out or confronted or meekly put their hands up like "just joking friend!"
Agreed on him overreacting to a dumb comment. He made his own bed by overreacting to people calling him that many times. I think the incident did happen at halftime. But I just don't see the need for the players to be walking through a group of fans to get to and from the court. It just seems unnecessary to me.
It would be a very (modern day) Pistons move to hire Kevin Ollie...
Part of the problem is that visiting players often walk through the "VIP Club" in Phoenix to their locker room since it is shorter than the "official route." That's where this incident took place.
That was borderline assault from Draymond.
Who instigated the affair?
Who instigated the affair?
Sabonis had his hands around his leg but it was after flying horizontally to the ground. Green's reaction, both immediately and with the crowd shows how much of a clown he is as we have seen this song and dance. Kerr has always allowed him to get away with garbage. It's embarrassing.
I mean...what is Kerr supposed to do?
I mean...what is Kerr supposed to do?
That's a valid and interesting question. If Kerr really had a problem with this kind of stuff happening over and over again, there's an obvious solution: Bench or suspend Green to try to change his behavior; trade or cut him if the behavior can't be changed.
But if Kerr is willing to tolerate the bad because he believes that the good stuff Green does helps the franchise compete for championships, then he just has to live with it. Given that Kerr was an important contributor during the Bulls' Rodman era, I'm guessing he has a very high tolerance level for this stuff.
If that makes Kerr an "accessory" in the eyes of some critics, he's seemingly OK with that.
Sabonis grabbed Green's leg to start it, which is obviously not a basketball play. But Green's reaction was way uncalled for. I find it very hard to believe that was him just losing his balance - he clearly put all of his weight on his right foot.
Discipline him with a suspension maybe after assaulting a fellow teammate for example.
Sabonis had his hands around his leg but it was after flying horizontally to the ground. Green's reaction, both immediately and with the crowd shows how much of a clown he is as we have seen this song and dance. Kerr has always allowed him to get away with garbage. It's embarrassing.
If I'm Kerr, or any other coach, and I thought Draymond's "good" outweighed the "bad," I would play him because of the "good" and let the NBA deal with the "bad." And I certainly wouldn't give a rip if someone thinks I'm an accessory because I've been to the NBA Finals six times in my nine years of coaching...and won four of them.
Your defense of Sabonis is downright silly. Both players were at fault and the officials handled it appropriately.
He was disciplined for the Poole punch. Arguably not enough, but that's not really relevant to yesterday. Do you really think Kerr should unilaterally suspend him during the playoffs if the NBA doesn't?
But I agree with wades. I think he's lost a step and should have been traded, but that's a different matter entirely. I can understand why they didn't want to "break up the band" after last year's championship too.
I mean...what is Kerr supposed to do?
Green is the quintessential fake tough guy. He's also a really good player but essentially owes Steph Curry his career.
Green isn't easily tradeable.
Shoot him.Have him walk the streets of Milwaukee alone.
They did. I give Sabonis credit for not leveling him during the course of the game. Green gets away with a ton of nonsense.
I have no idea what you mean by "fake tough guy." And while I am not sure he owes Steph Curry his "career," he certainly owes him his championships. But a lot of players owe that to super-stars.
Green is the quintessential fake tough guy. He's also a really good player but essentially owes Steph Curry his career.
They did. I give Sabonis credit for not leveling him during the course of the game. Green gets away with a ton of nonsense.
If I'm Kerr, or any other coach, and I thought Draymond's "good" outweighed the "bad," I would play him because of the "good" and let the NBA deal with the "bad." And I certainly wouldn't give a rip if someone thinks I'm an accessory because I've been to the NBA Finals six times in my nine years of coaching...and won four of them.
The officials handled that play appropriately. Sabonis first tried to throw Thompson to the ground, but lost his balance and then tried to hold Green's foot. Draymond's response was uncalled for, and a clear ejection.
But Sabonis also got away with a ton of nonsense. In that game alone there were multiple plays where Sabonis drove into Looney/Green leading with a forearm to the chest and clearly pushes with the forearm. Not one time called for an offensive foul.
I haven't watched Sabonis play a lot, but I thought he got away with a ton, and was borderline a dirty player most of the game...which I was surprised by, because I see so many positive things said about him.
I don't care for Green.
Green suspended for G3.
While I understand why, I don't agree with this decision. I don't think they suspend Sabonis if the roles were reversed, nor would most other stars get suspended.
This is largely, because it was Green, and it just further encourages others to take cheap shots at Green to see if they can bait him into retaliation. If you watch, Green takes a lot of shoves, elbows, other semi-dirty plays, because other teams are hoping to bait him into a reaction. Suspending him for this, encourages more of that.
I don't think he should be suspended either but his antics with the crowd did not help his case.
I disagree. The NBA loved his antics with the crowd. It's entertainment and will help to draw eyeballs.
Agree that he shouldn't have been suspended. If they didn't eject him, I would have been okay with a suspension. Both seems like overkill.
Green's a thug with diminishing basketball skills and a volatile personality despite his status in life. He brings this chit onto himself and deserves what he gets. Kolek 'em, hey?
Green's a thug with diminishing basketball skills and a volatile personality despite his status in life. He brings this chit onto himself and deserves what he gets. Kolek 'em, hey?
"thug"
Hey, at least he didn't say "animal."
Bleh…
https://twitter.com/bensteelemjs/status/1648828570024783874?s=46&t=ppua9BCUAa7dWM9-SthPmg
All so we can watch defenders grab their junk when they aren’t good enough to stop their opponent. Congratulations NBA. Your 2 most exciting stars are sitting out because you’ve incentivized this.
Fun half of basketball
Until they lost focus. Bucks should be up 36.
Always nice to have a term available when you can't say the word you really want to say. :-\Only the best dog whistle words
Bucks come out with 0.0 focus to start the 2H. Can't happen.
Bucks come out with 0.0 focus to start the 2H. Can't happen.You're amazing
You're amazing
The Bucks had no business losing G1. They still have a tremendous amount of work to do but this was a good response.
You really have no clue about the NBA game.
Not true.
I think Muggs has a clue about the NBA game, but he just over-reacts to thing that are pretty common especially come playoff time. Like a team down big coming out at halftime with a couple of wrinkles that score some quick baskets. Or a team on the other side losing some focus.
Maybe, but I'm always looking at the big picture. I still have concerns about the Bucks vs Boston or Philly.....although I'm 90% sure Boston will be there. I've also seen the Bucks give up a ton of points on their sag defense and it has hurt them quite a bit. They are fantastic in transition but imo their h-c offense is capable of being much better.
It's a 48 minute game - you can't get too excited about what happens in any two-minute time frame.
Maybe, but I'm always looking at the big picture. I still have concerns about the Bucks vs Boston or Philly.....although I'm 90% sure Boston will be there. I've also seen the Bucks give up a ton of points on their sag defense and it has hurt them quite a bit. They are fantastic in transition but imo their h-c offense is capable of being much better.
Embiid is trash
They weren’t kicking him out 2:30 into the game.
Doc Rivers quote:
"... If we're going to start punishing the retaliators, and not the instigators, then we've got a problem in this league."
Sabonis was clearly the instigator - even the most ardent Green haters will concede that fact. The League really needs to explain why Green was suspended and Sabonis wasn't.
They weren’t kicking him out 2:30 into the game.
Clippers need to blow the team up. Not really going out on a limb to say they can never win a title with Leonard and George as their 2 stars.
I mean, you kind of are. Kawhi carried a team with…Marc Gasol? Fred Van Vleet? Serge Ibaka? to a title.
Clippers need to blow the team up. Not really going out on a limb to say they can never win a title with Leonard and George as their 2 stars.
Leonard cannot stay healthy. He was dominant and the best player on the floor the first two games.
Why do you think I said they can’t win? Has Leonard or George played over 60 games in the last 5 years? Great players sitting on the bench are less effective than scrubs.
Why do you think I said they can’t win? Has Leonard or George played over 60 games in the last 5 years? Great players sitting on the bench are less effective than scrubs.
You don’t need your best player to play 60+ games to win a title.
Unless you think Klay Thompson or Draymond Green was the best player on the Warriors in 2017-2018. Since obviously it wasn’t Kevin Durant, since we’ve seen it’s not possible for him to be the best player on a title team, and Steph only played 51 games.
The 3 pointers the Heat are hitting and our bad offense are the reason for the deficit. This is purely whining but the whistle they get is frustrating.
Jimmy loves letting everyone know how tough Jimmy is. Really milking this. Funny thing is he flopped his way to it. Just like the entire Heat team.
Gotta feel bad for Dipo
Gotta feel bad for Dipo
I’m pretty convinced Bud is the Mike McCarthy of the NBA. Will make your team a lot better immediately, can be carried to a title if he has the best player in the world, but incapable of making real adjustments. Every year it’s “outlier shooting” by the opponent that does the Bucks in. The reality is when you don’t guard the 3 point shot, really good athletes can shoot really well.
And offensively tonight Bam went to the bench early 3rd with 4 fouls and we just never let Brook get paint touches. The Heat showed a 2-3 zone when game 2 got out of hand, the Bucks looked totally lost. 2 days off to prepare for it, and the Bucks…looked even more lost against the 2-3 zone tonight. There’s a reason NBA teams don’t play zone often. Teams have no problem shredding it. Except when you’re the Bucks and the attack is to iso drive into the teeth of it and not have anything more.
And what about the Bucks' defense? Has Budenholzer shown you anything on that end of the floor? They've allowed a Miami team, without Herro, to essentially shred them like ginsu knives. I have not been impressed by Budenholzer at all.
Gotta feel bad for Dipo
Jimmy loves letting everyone know how tough Jimmy is. Really milking this. Funny thing is he flopped his way to it. Just like the entire Heat team.
The hard on you have for the second best NBA player to ever wear a Marquette jersey is pathetic.
Crowder with no minutes until garbage time tonight. A bit surprised by this as defensively they could have used him more
Crowder with no minutes until garbage time tonight. A bit surprised by this as defensively they could have used him more
Stop. It was the correct call.
Not every call that benefits Lebron is some sort of conspiracy.
Then why wasn't Embiid ejected for kicking a guy in the nuts?
Brooks is my absolutely least favorite player in the league, but he was jobbed there. The reach with the arm is a basketball play, he was expecting James to crossover, thought he could get a hand on the ball...got the wrong balls. That shouldn't be an ejection for any player. Harden's was equally absurd.
Bucks offense looks way better with Dragic running point.
You don’t need your best player to play 60+ games to win a title.
Their offense looks way better when a generational talent in his prime years is healthy and playing.
Let’s not overthink this.
Dillon Brooks ejection was also ridiculous. Yes, it was a nut-shot, but did not look intentional.
No way if it was reversed and that was James hitting Brooks that Brooks would have been ejected.
Also, James writhed on the ground forever, then was magically better and no effects on subsequent plays.
Their offense looks way better when a generational talent in his prime years is healthy and playing.
Let’s not overthink this.
Yeah exactly. If Giannis is playing the Bucks are probably up 3-0.
Or maybe they're not. Especially if Herro was playing. This Bucks team is not playing anywhere near championship defense and their h-c offense is mostly iso ball and dependent 2on making threes. They are not attacking and getting to the line. They're very good when they get out into transition but totally predictable in the h-court. And even without Giannis they have no business being down 2-1, getting blown out twice, and in jeopardy of losing this series. If they some rely on out 3ing Miami will lose this series. And you can say Miami is shooting uncharacteristically great from distance but their getting wide open shots in rhythm.
Dillon Brooks ejection was also ridiculous. Yes, it was a nut-shot, but did not look intentional.
No way if it was reversed and that was James hitting Brooks that Brooks would have been ejected.
Also, James writhed on the ground forever, then was magically better and no effects on subsequent plays.
Herro led Miami to the best record in the NBA this year so you are probably right.
1. No one should ever give Dillon Brooks the benefit of the doubt when it comes to nut shots or anything else. The guy has been a clown show since college.You are correct. But LBJ has a well deserved reputation for flopping.
2. Does LeBron have a well-earned reputation for cheap shots? If no (and the correct answer is no), then it's irrelevant.
3. Just wait until you watch a soccer game.
You are correct. But LBJ has a well deserved reputation for flopping.
Can’t wait for this Knicks-Cavs series to be over. Everyone is moving in slow motion and there is a mandatory Yakety Sax 2 min scoring outage every quarter. It’s atrocious game after gameI enjoy seeing all of the washed up celebrities in the crowd
Or maybe they're not. Especially if Herro was playing. This Bucks team is not playing anywhere near championship level defense and their h-c offense is mostly iso ball and dependent on making threes. They are not attacking and getting to the line. They're very good when they get out into transition but totally predictable in the h-court. And even without Giannis they have no business being down 2-1, getting blown out twice, and in jeopardy of losing this series. If they some rely on out 3ing Miami they will lose this series. And you can say Miami is shooting uncharacteristically great from distance but their getting wide open shots in rhythm.
Miami went from the best 3pt shooting team last year to the worst this year with no substantial roster changes. It was inevitable that the shots would start falling since Duncan Robinson has been recovering from a ligament injury and eventual surgery that took from November through February. Seems like his hand pain is finally subsiding and his confidence is returning. He's a historically good shooter that had a challenging season so far.
Outside of the bubble he’s never been able to stay on the court in the Playoffs.
Can’t wait for this Knicks-Cavs series to be over. Everyone is moving in slow motion and there is a mandatory Yakety Sax 2 min scoring outage every quarter. It’s atrocious game after game
Curry really is remarkable. I have no problem slotting him top 5 ever.
And it really seems like he gets the opposite of star treatment officiating wise. I don't think there is a player that is held, pushed, and bumped more than him without them being called fouls.
4th quarter officiating has been pretty poor in the GSW game.
A whistle for a kicked ball, that they then said was inadvertent (despite it actually being a kicked ball) takes away a possession from the Warriors.
Agreed. They’ve also missed several fouls at the rim by GS.
And then a super weak technical called against Poole.
A bunch of other really questionable calls.
Refs need to be better in an important playoff game.
Wow. Steph calls a TO, with none left. What a mistake.
If they don't survive, that might cost them the series.
edit. They are lucky.
Far be it for me to judge how another man feels when punched in the dick.I never said yesterday was "acting" or not. I will not judge either.
Or maybe they're not. Especially if Herro was playing. This Bucks team is not playing anywhere near championship level defense and their h-c offense is mostly iso ball and dependent on making threes. They are not attacking and getting to the line. They're very good when they get out into transition but totally predictable in the h-court. And even without Giannis they have no business being down 2-1, getting blown out twice, and in jeopardy of losing this series. If they some rely on out 3ing Miami they will lose this series. And you can say Miami is shooting uncharacteristically great from distance but their getting wide open shots in rhythm.
What kind of brain dead take is this.
Giannis is or is a top 3 player. Tyler Herro is not.
Get a grip.
Gotta feel bad for Dipo
What kind of brain dead take is this.
Giannis is or is a top 3 player. Tyler Herro is not.
Get a grip.
He gets mauled constantly. I will also emphatically state that he's by far the best offensive player of his era and arguably 2nd to Jordan. His value goes way beyond pure stats.
Basically the anti-Trae Young. Empty stats. Saw a tweet championing his game yesterday...21 of his 35 points came in the 4th when they had been trailing all game. 14 in the final 5 minutes when they were already down 10 and making no progress at chipping away. Oh and he miss 6 shots in the 4th alone, so its not like he was some cold efficient scorer doing all he could. And none of that counts the fact that you can relentlessly hunt his turnstile defense.
Young is the most overrated player in the NBA. Not even close.
Jimmy loves letting everyone know how tough Jimmy is. Really milking this. Funny thing is he flopped his way to it. Just like the entire Heat team.
Its enjoyable seeing how rent free Jimmy lives in your head
Its enjoyable seeing how rent free Jimmy lives in your head
Jimmy is one of the most overrated players in the NBA. Not Trae Young overrated, but still...
Took you 2 days to come up with that? Talk about living rent free in someone's head...
Thanks for the bump though. Guy will be praised for his "toughness" tonight.
Jimmy is one of the most overrated players in the NBA. Not Trae Young overrated, but still...Now that is a Hot Take. Props for going out on that limb.
Now that is a Hot Take. Props for going out on that limb.
So 6 players said Jimmy Butler. 5.6% of the 108 players surveyed. Not really a big number.
According to the anonymous survey of NBA players by The Athletic, Butler ranked tied for 4th place of the most overrated players in the League. Trae, of course, won by a landslide.
Maybe 1 of those 6 was the guy who picked Tracy McGrady as the greatest basketball player ever.Sam Hauser got a vote for most underrated. Can someone vote for themselves?
Yes, Tracy McGrady.
I think Jimmy's pretty properly rated. Not good enough to carry a team to a title by himself, maybe not even good enough to be the best player on a team to win a title (unless you're in a bubble, maybe). But one of the better 2 way players in the league who has worked his way up from a grinder to a true star.
So 6 players said Jimmy Butler. 5.6% of the 108 players surveyed. Not really a big number.
That seems like a large number when you consider the 400+ players in the League.6 players is a large number? Could be 6 players who he has beef with (Chris Paul, Ben Simmons, TJ Warren, KAT, PJ Tucker, Joe Ingles).
As Wades said, he is a very good player. Nothing more. Nothing less.
That seems like a large number when you consider the 400+ players in the League.Another Hot Take! I love it.
As Wades said, he is a very good player. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Another Hot Take! I love it.
6 players is a large number? Could be 6 players who he has beef with (Chris Paul, Ben Simmons, TJ Warren, KAT, PJ Tucker, Joe Ingles).
Personally I think he is rated properly. Top 20 guy, not a superstar.
Or maybe all the guys who voted for Trae Young just don't like him.Could be, it was a "survey" by the athletic. Not exactly scientific.
Ultimately I pretty much agree - Not a superstar. and I have him very slightly lower as top 25 guy.
Reggie Miller says Butler might be the best player in the playoffs so far.
(Ducks and takes the rest of the night off)
Reggie Miller says Butler might be the best player in the playoffs so far.
(Ducks and takes the rest of the night off)
#22 can get a basket any time he wants it, hey?
What trouble? The cat's made over $200 million and countin', hey?
If we have to restrict this to non-dirtbags, there wouldn't be an Association, aina?
Bud decided Middleton would be the Butler assignment when Jrue goes to the bench. That let Jimmy get incredibly comfortable.6 players think so, and withoutbias, and Jockey
Jimmy’s looking very overrated though, hey?
NBA coaches love the charge as much as college coaches apparently
That was a total joke. Inexcusable call.
Jimmy is one of the most overrated players in the NBA.
Bump.
That’s a terrible loss by the Bucks.
Brook has 33 points. He took one shot in the last 6 minutes of the game (a make to go up 2 with 1:32 left). The Heat went on a 25-8 run after Brook’s second to last make.
Nick Nurse time?
It's not inconceivable but I doubt they'll can Bud.
Maybe my concerns about the Bucks were not that crazy?
Let me just say this: The Bucks are more than capable of beating this Miami team three games in a row.
Let me just say this: The Bucks are more than capable of beating this Miami team three games in a row.
I’m a Heat fan and I agree with this assessment.
I’m a Heat fan and I agree with this assessment.
Good call. I thought they'd be mature enough to handle business in the playoffs but this has been a disaster.
The roster is gonna go through an overhaul. It has to get younger, and Bud doesn't like playing young guys. I think it's a natural time to part ways.
Bias is melting down somewhere right now.
“Never meet your heroes.” Ignorance is bliss.
Some friends of mine happened by chance to run into Jimmy in rural France a few summers ago. They thought he was outstanding. They had a lengthy conversation with him and he ended up buying them an expensive bottle of wine.
Let me just say this: The Bucks are more than capable of beating this Miami team three games in a row.
Sure. But they’re not beating Boston and f they get that far. The blowout at the end of the season was an ominous warning sign.
With the way they were shooting, I don’t know if trapping helps. I think Jrue is too small and Khris is too slow to stay with him. This is where Wes would help a little or Jae was supposed to.
Frankly, the Bucks just look too old to keep up. I don’t see how they can sign Middleton to an extension, but I could see him taking the Player Option now.
Middleton isn't anywhere near his former self. Is he out of shape?
Some friends of mine happened by chance to run into Jimmy in rural France a few summers ago. They thought he was outstanding. They had a lengthy conversation with him and he ended up buying them an expensive bottle of wine.
I truly thought the Bucks would be fine. I still think they could be if they can win this series. But last night was a backbreaker.
I heard on NBA radio that Jimmy was trapped a total of 4 times last night. Now I'm not saying he should have been trapped a lot but don't you try to get the ball out of his hands in the 4Q? What's most puzzling to me is that Jimmy got to any spot he wanted on the floor. The Bucks' 3pt defense has been frankly their interior D has been spotty as well. Budenholzer makes 0.0 adjustments imo.
If the Bucks lose this series would you go after Nick Nurse? Someone else? Will Ty Lue be available?
That’s back to back nights of brutal losses by high seeds in the East.
These Ls are gonna give Embiid more time to get ready too.
That Celtics loss was worse than the Bucks loss.
Advantage Philly.
Except that the Bucks are down 3-1 and the Celtics are up 3-2.
Have you dropped both Boston and Milwaukee now, Muggs? What happens when the Sixers suffer an inexcusable loss that leaves you in a state of disbelief?
How in the F can that be a charge on Giannis? I am so sick of this garbage.
How in the F can that be a charge on Giannis? I am so sick of this garbage.
It’s absolutely brutal. Not in position, moving, just a total bail out.
Not a good few mins for the Bucks.
Wow. How about that 2nd charge call?
Bud has gotten taken behind the woodshed in this series.
I can't argue that he hasn't. WTF? What exactly are the Bucks trying to do defensively?
That was pretty obvious. The first one? 😬😬😬
Beats me
Except that Martin was falling down and leaning back before pretty minimal contact. The call in general is.a travesty and rewards garbage flopping.
Butler’s been watching some Harden film with the flailing.
Butler’s been watching some Harden film with the flailing.
Lol @ anybody who actually thinks there’s any humility to Jimmy. What a total douche clown.
Subbing in Connaughton for Lopez seemed stupid in the moment, even worse after the fact.
Milwaukee has fired Coach Bud.
Milwaukee has fired Coach Bud.
That’s exactly how this game should have ended.
The Giannis 1 on 5 offense went so well all 4th quarter, let’s do it all overtime too!
I don’t know that I can watch another Bud game after this season. Just unbelievably poorly coached.
Reminder that Butler was in and around the illicit cover ups of the Buzz era before we proudly associate him with our honorable program.
Congrats on being right, Muggs. That one regular-season loss was the difference!
Seriously, you had a bad feeling about the Bucks. Sad result for Bucks fans, but good call by you.
Remember when I said there are major concerns with the Bucks after the Celtics blew them out?
You say a lot of things Muggs.
The 5 on the floor for Miami at the end of overtime:
Butler
Highsmith
Vincent
Martin
Strus
Yikes.
They had Cody Zeller on the court late too and he made a bucket
Had no idea he was on the team or even in the league
Brook shot 7/11. His last attempt was a 3 pointer with 11:19 left in the game. Oh yeah it went to overtime. So he didn’t take a shot in the last 16:19 of play.
Lucky for Giannis and Bud, Kyrie and Harden both got hurt.
So they can always hang it all on 2021
Lucky for Giannis and Bud, Kyrie and Harden both got hurt.
So they can always hang it all on 2021
Lucky for C’s and Warriors, Middleton got hurt in 2022.
Of course “they can always hang it all on 2021.” As they should. Not many can.
Maybe “HIMMY” can “hang it all” on a ring someday too.
So……Nick Nurse?
Middleton?!?!?
Lol.
That would be like Heat using Herro as a injury excuse to combat Giannis.
Middleton?!?!?
Lol.
That would be like Heat using Herro as a injury excuse to combat Giannis.
Lol @ anybody who actually thinks there’s any humility to Jimmy. What a total douche clown.
Yeah, Middleton and Herro are comparable players. Good call.
The Bucks took the C’s to game 7 without their second best player last year.
But good luck to Himmy and your Timberwolves. They’ve both accomplished so much more than Giannis and Bud in your lifetime.
Lol. What? How many bad takes are you going to have in this topic?
I’d take Wojo over Bud at this point.
Giannis is gowne after next year. This roster has some MAJOR issues going forward. OLD and no assets to get younger.
Brook shot 7/11. His last attempt was a 3 pointer with 11:19 left in the game. Oh yeah it went to overtime. So he didn’t take a shot in the last 16:19 of play.
The most disappointing thing about this year is you only get so many years with the best player on the planet in his prime. But the second most disappointing thing is that its a waste of an incredible year from Lopez. At 35, he played 78 games, 31 mpg, had the best season of his career in eFG%, 3P%, BPG, second best season of his career in win shares, is going to make the all defensive team, and was only making $13MM.
Wait
Wojo over Bud???
So you just pick and choose when you back Bud?? Haha Wojo over Bud is a fine take. But comparing Herro and Middleton is outreagous(wasnt even the comp anyways just went over your head).
I mean at least you are consistent in your stupid.
JImmy is objectively fantastic come playoff time. That somehow spun you so far out of control. That you insulted bud at the highest level irrationally, then defended him to an obnoxious amount so much that you had to call someone a fan of a team they dont care about.
Yikes. Playoff Jimmy causes quite the ripple effect.
Im not a timberwolves fan, thats when you know youre grasping
Wolves had 9 pts all 4th qtr before that Davis foul.
Stopped running offense. Never seen anything like it. KAT is soft. Ant is simply not ready for the moment. Choked last year vs Memphis. Had quite possibly the worst game of all time tonight
I have never see a guy play that bad and be that afraid to drive. Just launching bad shots he couldnt get close on.
KAT simply does not possess the bball IQ or mental maturity that is required to win.
Hes finally have a good performance in a big game and per usual hes in foul trouble doing the dumbest crap possible.
Lakers on 7-0 now and down 3 with 8 minutes left while he has 5 fouls. Inexcusable.
Its not at all. Young blows.
When Wolves played the Hawks recently it was incredible how much better they are without him on the floor. Young is horrendous defensively. The offense is him just over dribbling the whole possesion and throwing wild passes or pray for fouls that are not fouls(not kidding replay showed the Wolves player flat out missed him on his Rowsey attempt twice).
There is zero chance that guy ever gets a ring unless hes the 9th man at some point.
Hes so annoying and clearly a constant problem.
Impressive win by the team though. Unfortunately McDaniels also with a bone headed decision so now they have no Reid or McD.
Rudy Gobert is genuniely a piece of sh it human being.
What an awful trade for an awful player and person
Naz Reid broken wrist.
There goes the wolves chance at trying to pull off some sort of mini run
Middleton? Not sure what they could get back or which teams that might want to take a chance on him could fit his contract.
Always less than you, the board punching bag.
From The Athletic:
The Timberwolves are aware of an alleged incident involving Anthony Edwards as he left the court following Minnesota’s 112-109 loss to the Nuggets on Tuesday night but are still gathering information, the team said in a statement Wednesday.
Denver Police cited Edwards for third-degree assault after two women said they were hit with a folding chair swung by Edwards as he was exiting the court. The Timberwolves issued a statement Wednesday: “We are aware of the alleged incident regarding Anthony Edwards following Game 5 in Denver and are in the process of gathering more information. We have no further comment at this moment.”
The Bucks, whom I brilliantly picked to win the title, pretty much have to fire Bud, don't they? I mean, I don't see how you can keep him after that.
Middleton? Not sure what they could get back or which teams that might want to take a chance on him could fit his contract.
If I'm the owner, I'd fire Bud, bring in someone like Nurse, and run it back with the same team (or close to it). They've still got all the championship-level pieces they need, especially if they can get another season like that from Lopez.
From The Athletic:
The Timberwolves are aware of an alleged incident involving Anthony Edwards as he left the court following Minnesota’s 112-109 loss to the Nuggets on Tuesday night but are still gathering information, the team said in a statement Wednesday.
Denver Police cited Edwards for third-degree assault after two women said they were hit with a folding chair swung by Edwards as he was exiting the court. The Timberwolves issued a statement Wednesday: “We are aware of the alleged incident regarding Anthony Edwards following Game 5 in Denver and are in the process of gathering more information. We have no further comment at this moment.”
There's a fan video circulating Social Media that captures the moment pretty well. Seemed more like a frustration/just want to blow off steam/emotions got the better of him moment. An apology and fine should be suitable, charges seem a bit extreme. I would compare it to the few times Curry has gotten upset, thrown his mouth guard and accidently hit a fan, rather than a "Malice at the Palace" type situation that some (although nobody here) have tried to make it appear.
Cat is an alpha dog, hey?
As Heat coach Erik Spoelstra was drawing up a play to attempt to tie Game 5 of Miami’s first-round series against the Bucks in the final seconds Wednesday night, he initially planned to give the ball to someone other than Jimmy Butler. When Butler was informed of this plan, however, he had other ideas. “He looked me dead in the eye,” Spoelstra said later with a smile, “and he just said, ‘No. Let me be that guy.'”
Uh huh.
Can confirm. Not a Wolves fan at all. You're all over every NBA team. I see all your posts about the Pelicans, Pacers, Wizards, Magic, Hornets, Jazz, Spurs, Rockets. etc.
Not a Wolves fan. Got it.
Is there any reason known to man why Budenholzer had Pat Connaughton in tbe game there for defense?
My thought is to defend the perimeter to eliminate a 3 pointer.
That's exactly it. With more time left I would have agreed with that strategy. But with under five seconds? Even Brook would be able to guard the three with that little time.
Yea, he could have guarded the inbounder too.
Also, not calling a timeout with .5 left to advance the ball is fireable in my opinion. That’s like Wojo forgetting the score at Butler.
Why exactly hasn't he been fired yet?
Wasn't Bud a genius just a couple years ago?Uh, no. He was a serviceable guy who didn't get in the way of the best player on the planet. The problem this year is that the best player on the planet is not at 100%. Bud didn't adjust to this
Wasn't Bud a genius just a couple years ago?
Wasn't Bud a genius just a couple years ago?
He did pull all the right strings two years ago no doubt. But there were questions a couple of years prior, and again the last couple of years. I think this series was SUCH a debacle, that I think they have to make a move.
Bucks need an alpha that scores 50 with 14 boards and 5 blocks in a deciding game of the NBA Finals
And maybe make a free throw now and then. Trade his ass for #22 and throw in Middleton and Holiday too, hey?
He did pull all the right strings two years ago no doubt. But there were questions a couple of years prior, and again the last couple of years. I think this series was SUCH a debacle, that I think they have to make a move.
Somehow 10-23 sticks out in an overtime loss. Plus, if JFB only scores 50 in game 4, Bucks wooda won. Fookin' pathetic, hey?
There's a good chance that the Heat, despite their ugly regular season, ends up making their 3rd ECF in 4 years. That would be wonderful.
The only one they missed is when they had the shortest offseason in history, and came in banged up along with the rest of the teams that made a deep run during Disney times.
A testament to Jimmy's willpower, honestly, because he's not surrounded by the perfect supporting cast.
There's a good chance that the Heat, despite their ugly regular season, ends up making their 3rd ECF in 4 years. That would be wonderful.
The only one they missed is when they had the shortest offseason in history, and came in banged up along with the rest of the teams that made a deep run during Disney times.
A testament to Jimmy's willpower, honestly, because he's not surrounded by the perfect supporting cast.
I think the Knicks beat them.
A testament to Jimmy's willpower, honestly, because he's not surrounded by the perfect supporting cast.
There's a good chance that the Heat, despite their ugly regular season, ends up making their 3rd ECF in 4 years. That would be wonderful.
The only one they missed is when they had the shortest offseason in history, and came in banged up along with the rest of the teams that made a deep run during Disney times.
A testament to Jimmy's willpower, honestly, because he's not surrounded by the perfect supporting cast.
I think they kill each other. It's going to be a rough series.
I don't see how the Heat match up with the Knicks down low, but also this is the same Heat team that pushed the Cs to 7 games in the ECF last year so anything is possible.
Bam being freed up from playing D on Giannis will allow him to contribute will help take some load off of Jimmy.
I love Giannis. I do. Want him here forever. But I do think there has to be some refinement and adjustment to how he plays to make a rebuild around him worth it.
He's got a lot of miles and takes a beating. The whole thing is predicated on his elite athleticism, and there has to be some concern about how his game will age.
Interesting times for the Bucks. A lot of really likeable guys but this era is largely over after last night.
A unique superstar who truly shows out at a different level in the playoffs, plus the most underrated coach in the NBA in Spo is a cocktail for consistent playoff success.
Agree with your point. Disagree that Spo is underrated, let alone the most underrated coach. He's very highly regarded within the profession, and almost anytime a talking head "expert" lists the NBA's best coaches, Spoelstra is mentioned.
He did pull all the right strings two years ago no doubt. But there were questions a couple of years prior, and again the last couple of years. I think this series was SUCH a debacle, that I think they have to make a move.
Everyone complaining was right. Refs did miss a foul call at the end of regulation....on Connaughton
Bucks fans aren't going to be happy with the NBA's Last Two Minute Report for Game 5 of the team's first-round series.
The league's review of Milwaukee's stunning loss to Miami on Wednesday night determined that Pat Connaughton — not Jimmy Butler — should have been called for a foul before Butler hit the game-tying shot to send the game into overtime.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/jimmy-butler-heat-bucks-foul-last-two-minute-report-game-5/kdgg3m4pihkm2x1ifswrad3d
So was Wojo. Remember when he was going to turn MU into Duke North?
The evolution of basketball for the most part has become more entertaining. But one thing that was so much better was players actually trying to defend at the rim rather than simply fall over.
https://twitter.com/Super70sSports/status/1652085997851627520
Coach Bud’s brother passed away right before game 4. I’m sure his mind was elsewhere at points during those last 2 games.
What an awful and bizarre 4th from the Warriors. They didn’t score a single FG, and only 3 points total, in the final SEVEN MINUTES. The final 4 min of the game featured a single made FG, just mailing it in, good grief
Coach Bud’s brother passed away right before game 4. I’m sure his mind was elsewhere at points during those last 2 games.
They kan have his ass, hey?
He’ll have his number hanging in the rafters at Fiserv, hey?
Absolutely. Deservedly so.
Yeah, retire his leisure suit and put it nexta Jon McGlocklin's, aina?
Pedestrian, aina?
You can put a statue of Brook, Middleton, Jrue, Giannis, and Bud up outside of FISERV tomorrow as far as I’m concerned.
Rename FISERV the GA Arena since he’s clearly the most deserving.
Anyone that calls Khris Middleton’s Bucks career pedestrian doesn’t know ball. Stick to the basement scanner and caravan alerts, aina?
So, he compares favorably to #12, hey?
5 greatest Wisconsin athletes? I assume most would have Aaron 1st and Antetokounmpo 2nd.
Hank, Kareem, Giannis, Starr…Rodgers?
Hank, Kareem, Giannis, Starr…Rodgers?
Yount?
I cannot stand Steven A.
What a total lack of professionalism.
What did he do?
Delighted to see The Heat beat The Knicks in game 1. Rooting for Jimmy and Jamal (even though he is not eligible to play in playoffs)
These games are national broadcasts - not local to New York. Shouldn’t have a hard line Knicks sympathizer on the national studio team.
They don’t care. It’s just entertainment.
Steven A. does not entertain me :-\
Steven A. does not entertain me :-\
The best NBA analyst by far for ESPN is Tim Legler and yet they choose not to have him on the broadcasts for some reason. It's very strange because he's always been excellent.
Steven A. does not entertain me :-\I 100% get it, but for me he's entertaining. I definitely don't take him seriously but he's fun. Little bit of a "guy at the bar who loves to spout off" which can be fun in small doses.
He has less personality than I do.
I 100% get it, but for me he's entertaining. I definitely don't take him seriously but he's fun. Little bit of a "guy at the bar who loves to spout off" which can be fun in small doses.
Curry continues to amaze me.
So lucky to get to watch Steph Curry play basketball. Such a treat
5-6-7-8 seeds advance in the west. Steph vs LeBron on tap.
Mea culpa. I was multi tasking and thought that was what the announcer said.
Best player on the planet, and has been for quite some time. Under-appreciated.
Also, they are up 24, despite missing 9 FTs in the 3rd quarter.
Harden turning back the clock tonight. Will it be enough though?
That was fun. Watched the game with two Sixers fans and they were going nuts!
The bigger thing is they now don't have to rush Embiid back for G2. The strangest stat of the night is that Jaylen Brown took 3 shots after the 1Q after he started the game 6-7. Bizarre.
The bigger thing is they now don't have to rush Embiid back for G2. The strangest stat of the night is that Jaylen Brown took 3 shots after the 1Q after he started the game 6-7. Bizarre.
The bigger thing is they now don't have to rush Embiid back for G2.
Yep. No need to play him unless he's 100%, and it seems doubtful he will be. Really, an incredible win for the Sixers.
Turnovers ultimately doomed the C's. Philly with 14 more shots 6 only 6 turns. It's such an important stat and was vital to MU's success until the tragic events of March 17th.
We didn't play great against Vermont, but I wouldn't call our win "tragic."
The bigger thing is they now don't have to rush Embiid back for G2. The strangest stat of the night is that Jaylen Brown took 3 shots after the 1Q after he started the game 6-7. Bizarre.
Just did something I almost never do - watched Colin Cowherd (I know, but I had 15 minutes to waste).
He listed his 7 greatest NBA players ever and the first 6 are identical to mine.
Kareem, MJ, LeBron, Steph, Magic, and Bird. As of now, to me, these are written in stone.
He had Shaq at #7 which I am fine with although arguments can be made for 4 or 5 others.
Kind of tough to not have Chamberlain or Russell in the conversation. For different reasons but still. Look at Wilt's stats for starters. I'm not sure they should be penalized cause the game was different and before most people's time.
Take a look at Wilt's first nine seasons. It's seriously ridiculous.
Player quality during that period of time and lack of a three point line made Wilt the best. The game was very different.
Player quality during that period of time and lack of a three point line made Wilt the best. The game was very different.
He completely dominated and shredded people in his era. It's his fault he put up insane numbers because everyone else sucked and there was no 3pt line? I'm not buying that explanation. You can only play in your era so I guess his 38 ppg and 29 rebs his rookie season should be discounted? Was the NBA in Lillyput back in the 60's?
Wilt was amazing. A physical freak. Bigger, stronger, faster than his opponents. There simply were not mobile 7 footers in the sixties. Russell was his toughest opponent, Russell was 6'9.
Elgin Baylor and Oscar Robertson were amazing for their era, two amazingly successful big guards who dominated their opponents physically. They were both in the 6'5, 220lb neighborhood.
Wilt was a freak for his era.
I am not saying that. Wilt would dominate any era. And good players with modern training, conditioning, etc would be successful. I have every expectation Elgin/O would be successful now. They would not be able to physically bully their opponents.
Wilt was amazing. A physical freak. Bigger, stronger, faster than his opponents. There simply were not mobile 7 footers in the sixties. Russell was his toughest opponent, Russell was 6'9.
Elgin Baylor and Oscar Robertson were amazing for their era, two amazingly successful big guards who dominated their opponents physically. They were both in the 6'5, 220lb neighborhood.
Wilt was a freak for his era.
Wilt was amazing. A physical freak. Bigger, stronger, faster than his opponents. There simply were not mobile 7 footers in the sixties. Russell was his toughest opponent, Russell was 6'9.
Elgin Baylor and Oscar Robertson were amazing for their era, two amazingly successful big guards who dominated their opponents physically. They were both in the 6'5, 220lb neighborhood.
Wilt was a freak for his era.
I agree with your comments about Wilt. One of the greatest athletes ever. Two reasons why he isn’t in my top 6.
1. He was playing against vastly inferior athletes on a regular basis.
2. The lane was 4 feet narrower than it is now. A lot easier to get at the hoop for his finger rolls ( his favorite shot) and dunks.
That 4 pt play call was criminal and really swung the momentum.
Did you hear Monty McCutcheon's explanation of that call? Is this professional basketball or Kindergarten? The guy completely fell down before Brunson was in his shooting motion. Crazy call imo.
Bad call of a rule that is already insane.
Honestly the missed shot clock violation might have been worse. That was unbelievable.
And the play where Randle elbowed lowry in the head and foul was on Lowry was a choice as well.
True. Not a good night for the zebras.
Are you under the impression that Wilt and the players of the 60's wouldn't have trained differently today? Were Baylor, West, and Robertson not great athletes? Were Dr. J and David Thompson decent athletes? It's hard for me to see Shaq and Duncan ahead of Mr. Chamberlain. I assume you think the athletes in all sports are better today? Should we discount Babe Ruth and Jim Brown?Jerry West was as athletic as any player today. He had a 40 inch vert , very long arms. Incredible all around talent . That is why his image is on the NBA logo.
You think they will call illegal defense against the Lakers at all? Blatantly obvious defensive 3-seconds on probably a dozen plays already.
Lakers 17 FTs, GSW 0 FTs.
Are you under the impression that Wilt and the players of the 60's wouldn't have trained differently today? Were Baylor, West, and Robertson not great athletes? Were Dr. J and David Thompson decent athletes? It's hard for me to see Shaq and Duncan ahead of Mr. Chamberlain. I assume you think the athletes in all sports are better today? Should we discount Babe Ruth and Jim Brown?
Can someone explain to me how the Lakers were granted a timeout there. It was a clear tie-up jump ball.
Can someone explain to me how the Lakers were granted a timeout there. It was a clear tie-up jump ball.
Green being on the floor for 35 mins was too much tonight. They're literally not guarding the guy at all.
I agree. Might have to go to a lineup with Wiggins at the 4.
Make Lebron guard have to guard Wiggins.
That tech was also a critical mistake and totally unnecessary. The guy is good pushing the ball up the floor but he essentially doesn't even look at the basket unless he gets a wide open chippie.
That was bad.
But also after the great comeback the Warriors went to some mental offense.
Also LOL at Minny trading away Vando as one of the 47 players for Gobert. Rudy aint chasing Curry around the court and locking him up on the perimeter.
The Suns/Nuggets played game 2 on Monday. They don't play game 3 until Friday. What in the world?
Paul Reed getting minutes in a real NBA playoff game. Wild
Bud fired. Had to happen.
He should get a standing ovation every time he walks into the FISERV for forever. And he should get a new job immediately with a younger up and coming team. Very good coach, but it was time for a change for the Bucks.
It had to be done. Nurse?
Funny to look at the standards of the Bucks v the Bulls.
Actual kind of like the standards of MU v DePaul. ;D
Now you can take a charge by turning to the side and taking the hit with your hip.
The charge sucks.
It had to be done. Nurse?
The Bulls are an unmitigated disaster. They must start over imo.I don't think you could find 1 person, not cashing a check from the Bulls, that would disagree with you.
It was mentioned. Which is likely why the Bucks waited.
It is very sad and unfortunate. But you can only judge what happened on the court - and it was pretty bad. He probably should have removed himself from the bench, but that is entirely his call.
I have absolutely nothing but gratitude for Bud's tenure. He took that team that next step. But I think in the NBA a new voice is needed every so often, and I think we are at that point with Milwaukee.
I agree with Damian Lillard.
I'm listening to NBA radio now at work and Steve Novak is about to be interviewed about the Bucks fyi.
I'm listening to NBA radio now at work and Steve Novak is about to be interviewed about the Bucks fyi."about the Bucks" or "by the Bucks"? ;D
ESPN announcers at Suns-Nuggets Game 3 just said Durant had bad body language in Game 2.
Who does KD think he is? Justin Lewis?
How were his slaps of five?
The fact that #34 has said nothing publicly about Bud's chit cannin', speaks volumes. Much different then when Kidd was given da heave ho, aina?
And it was Kidd that said all that, not Giannis himself.
Source?
Damn....Booker wasn't messing around last night. 20-25 from the field? It's interesting that he does a lot of damage in the mid-range.
Wrong, #34 offered to use his influence and speak to management on behalf of Kidd, hey?
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj74dqa8uD-AhXCLH0KHYY-AAoQFnoECC0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fnba.nbcsports.com%2F2018%2F01%2F22%2Fjason-kidd-says-giannis-antetokounmpo-offered-to-save-his-job-minutes-before-firing%2F&usg=AOvVaw3sIc4CAUg3A8XQicJ8xPPb
That’s why we need Chase to become a mid-range shooter
GSW has no size.
GSW has no size.
LeBron played like a maniac in the third quarter.
Size no matta, hey?
It's not just that GS has no size, Draymond and Poole have been really bad. Looney has to be right physically for them to have even a remote chance. The bottom line is if Anthony Davis plays just solid GS really doesn't have an answer. Draymond is completely useless right now and a total non-factor.
Lakers-Nuggets would be a fun WCF. Davis vs. Jokic will be real interesting, as each obviously has many, many strengths but also a couple of things that can be taken advantage of. Also, Gordon won't be someone LeBron can just run over.
I was wrong about the Knicks. They're done and will likely lose in 5.
Love watching Jimmy destroying the Knicks.
I think it's Thibs. Seems like Spo has clogged the lane, and the Knicks don't know what to do about it. It's worked 3 games in a row.
Man, NBA officiating is maddening, and bewildering.
Even those horrible refs couldn’t call that shot good and give the game to Boston. They tried though.
Blatant push off. Call more offensive fouls!
Not a stellar showing for Mark Jones today, either.
Has anyone seen James Harden? If so, please ask him to report to the Wells Fargo Center for today's game. Thanks.
Mazzulla, even with those gifts by the refs, might want to call a time-out instead of "trusting his players" as well?
The more games I've watched I'm the playoffs the more disappointing it is that the Bucks flamed out. It seems like every team ileft is wildly inconsistent.
Or Doris Burke. It's not necessary to give some analysis, and frankly repeat that analysis, every possession down the stretch. You're on TV not radio for starters.
The Bucks didn’t flame out. They were out coached by a mile.
Got two wide open shots. One missed. One was a fraction late.
That game was almost a typical Doc special. Players bailed him out thankfully.
I only watched the last minute plus overtime, and had it muted. Was Deuce in the building for Doris to go hug and fawn over mid broadcast?
Her and Jones make up one of my least favorite broadcast teams in all of sports.
I disagree about the shots they got. Even if it's a wide open three why are you taking a three in a tie game and the last shot? And they essentially did it twice cause they were down 1 before not getting the shot off in overtime.
Why does it matter if it's a three? They were wide open. In the NBA that is a just fine for a last shot.
Better than allowing the defense to set up.
Presumably don't you want one of your two best players to take the final shot.? Next, you have a better chance of getting an in close offensive rebound or fouled if you attack the rim. Also, what is Smart's 3pt pecentage?
Around 33%. But no idea what it is when wide open.
I just don't think you can assume you are going to get a better shot if you call timeout though.
Budget cuts.
You should apply, Muggsy.
Tatum initiated the offense both times - and they doubled. Presumably they would do the same had they called timeout.
I saw him.
The one time it’s actually a charge and not some guy sliding over and flying it goes uncalled. Mainly because Maxey didn’t embellish and fly 15 feet backwards, and instead tried to recover and contest. And of course Tatum flops to the ground lol.
The charge call on Embiid where Smart took it in the side and flopped is such a joke.
Marcus Smart-worthy flop by Mat Ishbia.
I think Ishbia will be "donating" to the NBA charitable fund.
Rightfully so, he in the wrong. It's a minor incident, but he should know better.
Ishiba played for Izzo. Not surprised he’s a flopperCould be worse, if he had been a Badger, the Joker would have got a punch in the nuts.
Could be worse, if he had been a Badger, the Joker would have got a punch in the nuts.
My new favorite Twitter follow:
https://twitter.com/ArtButSports/status/1655379773638443010?s=20
Imagine if he played for Alabama.Lol! Right.
It absolutely is a basketball play that has been around forever. As nearly every other form of physical defense has been removed, as well as the circle under the basket, I would probably quit watching if they eliminated the charge.
Always has been.
Conversely, you seem to think that a player like LeBron should be able to put his shoulder into a defender's sternum and plow his way to the basket.
I'm not saying get rid of every offensive foul but distinctions have to be made.
No.
If Addae-Wusu gets into perfect help position and Sean Jones falls over him driving to the basket, it is a charge and should be.
Ban secondary defenders taking charges.
Ban secondary defenders taking charges.
So, take away help defense. No thanks.
It is. It just isn't how he or you see it.
Always has been.
Conversely, you seem to think that a player like LeBron should be able to put his shoulder into a defender's sternum and plow his way to the basket.
Make charging a violation instead of a foul. Expand the circle.
They inbound to Draymond??
Unreal.
Woof that was an awful last 17ish minutes of bball from the Warriors.
COuldnt make anything. Klay was awful. Poole belongs in Serbia.
Steph the play maker was unreal but even he couldnt make anything. They just kept bombing off balance shots.
I would love the officiating on the charge to be more consistent. I would love all basketball officiating to be more consistent. Alas, doomed to eternal disappointment.Not eternal, once AI and robot officials become prevalent, we will be good to go.
So, take away help defense. No thanks.
That's not banning help defense at all - and you're smart enough to know that. I don't think banning secondary defenders from taking charges is necessarily the answer either. But IMO there needs to be a better written rule to prevent someone from claiming space an instant before they start their upward motion to the basket. IMO that barely counts as "defense" at all.
I completely disagree.
I think the pendulum has swung excessively far toward the player on offense.
I hate to say it but the Lakers may be the favorites after last night's debacle. Their auxiliary players have been considerably better than the remaining teams. Their overall defense also has been more consistent.
Meanwhile the Warriors are not beyond criticism. I thought last night their decision making as a group, when the game was on the line, was absolutely atrocious. And it starts with Curry, Thompson, and Green.
I thought Steph wore down last night and the Lakers were smart to attack him. However, the two threes he took (down one) were absurd and beyond poor percentage shots. The 30 foot step-back vs Davis was beyond idiotic.
Thompson's two threes before that were even worse. Early in tbe shot clock heaves with zero chance of success. Then you have the drive play with Green at the end. WTF? No one on the Lakers was concerned with him shooting the ball at all, of course they knew he was looking to pass.
Let's also not forget what happened just before that when Steph took that wild triple. Green got an offensive rebound, 5 feet from the basket, with no one near him except Schroeder and immediately flinged the ball out. Look at the rim take one dribble make a damn lay-up!
Moving on, Jordan Poole has been an absolute disaster in these playoffs. He's been so bad Kerr couldn't even play him last night. His shooting stats are atrocious and he can't guard a chair. Good luck unloading hin or his $123 million dollar contract.
Lastly, as for Steve Kerr, I thought his whining about the officiating was unusually ridiculous in light of his specific gripes. He's bitching about moving screens and flopping from the Lakers? As if the Warriors don't do this constantly as well and have during his tenure? Please.
Bucks will take Kerr
Boston is in enormous trouble. I didn't see this coming at all.
Several of us never thought the Celtics were the unbeatable juggernaut you kept claiming they were, and I don’t think they’ll win the title.
But it’s only a 9-point halftime lead for the Sixers. That’s practically a tie game in the NBA.
Man I would love to see an Embiid/Jimmy series
Sam got some.run
Glad to see the Celtics spit the bit. I’d love to see the Sixers wrap it up in Game 6.
The NBA came out with their two minute report and stated that the Tatum play where he essentially shoved Tyrese Maxey to create space was a correct no call. If Maxey had fallen down would have they called it an offensive foul? This play illustrates part of the problem. Why are defenders or any player being rewarded for falling down/flopping? So if Kyle Lowry defended Tatum on that play he probably would have rolled out of the arena. I don't think it's that freaking difficult to see the difference between a clear offensive shove and foul vs a flop. And these players flop constantly on both ends of the floor and are rewarded for it. This is manipulative and infuriating to watch.
Like the end of the Heat/Bucks game, this highlights that the NBA is full of it on these "two minute reports."
Like the end of the Heat/Bucks game, this highlights that the NBA is full of it on these "two minute reports."
Or you don’t understand how the game is supposed to be officiated - which your posting history here suggests is actually the case.
Why exactly is J.J. Reddick getting an interview with Totonto? There seem to be a bunch of quality assistant coaches that don't seem to get these opportunities enough.
Or you don’t understand how the game is supposed to be officiated - which your posting history here suggests is actually the case.
We are all well aware that you are incapable of seeing any viewpoints outside of your own, you don't need to keep reminding us.
I watched a Real Madrid Euroleague playoff game yesterday and some of Markus’ game today and it’s INCREDIBLE contrasting it to NBA ball, especially playoff ball. There is such a massive aversion to extending the game. It’s wild. RM’s opponent was down 4 missed a shot with 15 seconds left and just packed it in, didn’t attempt to foul. I’ve seen other games where a team is down 4 or 5 with 30-35 seconds left and they let the opponent just milk the clock and shoot with 10ish seconds left hoping to get a rebound and score before fouling. It’s not just sporadic, it’s very common.
Then, as in the case with Baskonia today, teams that are scoring at will or at a strong clip will just stop looking to score with 6-7 min left if they are up more than 5. It’s shockingly common to see a game with an average of 43-44 pts a quarter through 3 have a 4th quarter with 30 pts scored, it’s just bizarre.
I really like elements of the international game when it applies to the Olympics or FIBA WC, but the Euro mentality to late game strategy is grating.
I've noticed that too, Wags.The college coaches are trying to tighten the score up to improve their analytic numbers. Sucks, but that's what it is.
And NBA coaches are far less likely to extend games than their college counterparts. A college team can be down 12 with 25 seconds left, and they'll still be hacking, whereas an NBA team would just play out the clock because they know it's over. It's actually one of the things I like better about the NBA.
The college coaches are trying to tighten the score up to improve their analytic numbers. Sucks, but that's what it is.
Really surprised Boston is favored today.
I think they do it just to get another possession to run offense. Every moment is teachable.
Really surprised Boston is favored today.
Bookies don't no ball, aina?
Or maybe they do? I dunno.
Given the history of Doc Rivers teams choking, it’s not a stretch
I watched a Real Madrid Euroleague playoff game yesterday and some of Markus’ game today and it’s INCREDIBLE contrasting it to NBA ball, especially playoff ball. There is such a massive aversion to extending the game. It’s wild. RM’s opponent was down 4 missed a shot with 15 seconds left and just packed it in, didn’t attempt to foul. I’ve seen other games where a team is down 4 or 5 with 30-35 seconds left and they let the opponent just milk the clock and shoot with 10ish seconds left hoping to get a rebound and score before fouling. It’s not just sporadic, it’s very common.Speaking of Markus he scored 25 in the win against Henry's team. Hank scored 8
Then, as in the case with Baskonia today, teams that are scoring at will or at a strong clip will just stop looking to score with 6-7 min left if they are up more than 5. It’s shockingly common to see a game with an average of 43-44 pts a quarter through 3 have a 4th quarter with 30 pts scored, it’s just bizarre.
I really like elements of the international game when it applies to the Olympics or FIBA WC, but the Euro mentality to late game strategy is grating.
I'm surprised Sam hasn't been inserted for Tatum. He could still compose a letter on the bench? 1-13????
For a guy with lots of crazy takes, this may be the goofiest ever.
The loser of Philly-Boston going to have A LONG AZZ summer
The game was decided in the 2-3 minute stretch after the Sixers took an 83-81 lead. Harden and Maxey wasted several consecutive possessions dribbling deep into the shot clock and then firing up bricks; barely even looked at Embiid. And when they'd miss, the Celtics would get a run-out and Tatum would hit a 3.
That's brutal basketball, and as much as I like Rivers, it's ultimately a reflection of the coaching.
Agreed and well said.
Meanwhile Denver only up 81-51 at halftime.
No Ayton or Paul. They never had a chance.
This probable loss could cost Doc his job?
Doc to the Bucks.
No Ayton or Paul. They never had a chance.
When the Durant trade was announced, I thought they'd be an immediate top 3 championship favorite for at least a couple years. But there's just as good a chance their future is bleak as hell. Between injury history, Paul and increasingly Durant's age, Ayton's development flatlining, Booker due a raise after next year, and having traded everything not bolted down to get Durant, they have to be one of the higher variance teams in the league but even that will only last another year or two.
When the Durant trade was announced, I thought they'd be an immediate top 3 championship favorite for at least a couple years. But there's just as good a chance their future is bleak as hell. Between injury history, Paul and increasingly Durant's age, Ayton's development flatlining, Booker due a raise after next year, and having traded everything not bolted down to get Durant, they have to be one of the higher variance teams in the league but even that will only last another year or two.
I tried to tell you guys. Durant has never led a team to a title and he never will.
I think the only possible way he wins a 2nd one is to rejoin Curry on GS, join LeBron in LA, or even possibly joining Jimmy in Miami.
He’s not an Alpha. He’s a Big time scorer who demands the ball for a good portion of the shot clock. That can only work with certain players - not Kyrie or Harden or Westbrook or Booker. He is definitely not a LeBron or Curry or Magic or Bird or Duncan who can elevate an entire team.
You are just outing yourself as someone who has not watched Durant ever.
He also already has a 2nd title. And 2 Finals MVPs...
It's not surprising that Durant was so great in GS offensively with more open space but I think his defense was phenomenal as well. WTF happened to him defensively?
You are just outing yourself as someone who has not watched Durant ever.
He also already has a 2nd title. And 2 Finals MVPs...
It's not surprising that Durant was so great in GS offensively with more open space but I think his defense was phenomenal as well. WTF happened to him defensively?
And he was the best players on those teams.
Per usual Jockey keeps dying on the strangest hills.
Durant’s NBA career:
Golden State: 3 years = 2 titles.
Non Golden State: 12 years = Zero titles.
Thank you, Steph Curry! Who, incidentally, has as many titles without Durant as with him.
Anyone who rates Durant over Curry on the all-time greatest list is clueless about NBA basketball. Durant is top 15(?) all time. Curry is Top 5.
And he was the best players on those teams.
Per usual Jockey keeps dying on the strangest hills.
Durant’s NBA career:
Golden State: 3 years = 2 titles.
Non Golden State: 12 years = Zero titles.
Thank you, Steph Curry! Who, incidentally, has as many titles without Durant as with him.
Anyone who rates Durant over Curry on the all-time greatest list is clueless about NBA basketball. Durant is top 15(?) all time. Curry is Top 5.
Maybe when Durant gets to half as many triple-doubles in his career as Draymond Green or becomes half the defender that Draymond is, I’ll reconsider.
My mistake. Curry won him 2 rings.
So the two time Finals MVP had nothing to do with winning the finals.
As least your takes are consistently braindead.
Barf
Coincidentally my reaction to some of the Bucks request for interviews so far. Kenny Atkinson? Meh. Scott F-ING Brooks?! I thought it was a Woj parody account.
Coincidentally my reaction to some of the Bucks request for interviews so far. Kenny Atkinson? Meh. Scott F-ING Brooks?! I thought it was a Woj parody account.
So the two time Finals MVP had nothing to do with winning the finals.
As least your takes are consistently braindead.
Thank you.
When you have to make things up in an argument, it means I already won.
Unless you can find a quote where I said that. Good luck. ;D ;D ;D
I gave proof that KD can’t lead a team to a title. 12 years without Curry= zero titles. I would be interested in all your opinions why that is. Are you gonna somehow prove he could?
I have said over and over, ad nauseum, that Durant is a great player. He can’t lead a team to a title.
So are you putting Chauncey Billups ahead of Kevin Durant on your all time player list or...?
Are you and Hard’s the same person? Another thing I never said.
You needed to watch the pre-game tonight. Asked to describe Durant, I believe Stephen A. Used the word disappointing. When Jalen was asked, he was even more succinct. “He should have stayed with Golden State”. The cvery cleat implication being that that was the way to get more rings.
But they are probably as clueless as I am.
To those who know basketball, what elite skill does KD possess besides being one of the 2 or 3 greatest shooters ever? And I don’t minimize that skill as I have said he is one of the 15 greatest players ever. (Oops, there I go attacking him again).
Are you and Hard’s the same person? Another thing I never said.
You needed to watch the pre-game tonight. Asked to describe Durant, I believe Stephen A. Used the word disappointing. When Jalen was asked, he was even more succinct. “He should have stayed with Golden State”. The cvery cleat implication being that that was the way to get more rings.
But they are probably as clueless as I am.
To those who know basketball, what elite skill does KD possess besides being one of the 2 or 3 greatest shooters ever? And I don’t minimize that skill as I have said he is one of the 15 greatest players ever. (Oops, there I go attacking him again).
To those who know basketball, what elite skill does KD possess besides being one of the 2 or 3 greatest shooters ever? And I don’t minimize that skill as I have said he is one of the 15 greatest players ever. (Oops, there I go attacking him again).
He’s an elite rebounder. He’s averaged close to 8 rebounds a game for his career despite being primarily perimeter player and not having the frame to bang for boards.He is the smoothest and most effortless scorer I have ever seen play in person. Agree fully with that.
He’s not just a great shooter, he’s an absurd scorer, he can score literally from every level and in every way, which plays into the fact that he’s also unselfish and a very good distributor. He also doesn’t need to dominate the ball to be effective.
And to top it off, he’s an extremely underrated defender. He’s not a lockdown perimeter guy, but a damn good help defender and one of his biggest assets to that Warriors run was his difference making at the second level defensively with his length and reactions.
He is the smoothest and most effortless scorer I have ever seen play in person. Agree fully with that.
Wasn't the sky hook smooth?I never had the pleasure of seeing Kareem in person.
I never had the pleasure of seeing Kareem in person.
John Dawson is better than KD
The Denver/Lakers series should be interesting.
Not if they reward flopping.
Klay has been beyond an abomination.
Agreed.
In general, its like someone drugged the Warriors into forgetting how to shoot the basketball. They missed so many wide open 3's that they always hit.
GSW lost 3 of 4 to the Lakers during the regular season with the only win coming in the first game of the season. I just think it’s a bad match up. The Lakers can switch multiple guys on the perimeter and have size protecting the rim.
Going to be interesting to see what they can do against a team with a dominant big man. I think they will struggle against the Nuggets.
The Nuggets have been the best team in the Playoffs by a pretty good amount.
The Lakers v. Warriors series games.
Game 1 Lakers W by 5: Lakers 29 FTs ; Warriors 6 FTs
Game 2 Warriors W by 27: Lakers 17 FTs ; Warriors 16 FTs
Game 3 Lakers W by 30: Lakers 37 FTs ; Warriors 17 FTs
Game 4 Lakers W by 3: Lakers 20 FTs ; Warriors 12 FTs
Game 5 Warriors W by 15: Lakers 15 FTs ; Warriors 15 FTs
Game 6 Lakers W by 21: Lakers 42 FTs ; Warriors 14 FTs
Series total: Lakers 160 FTs ; Warriors 80 FTs
The series was decided by two main factors. And a minor 3rd.
1. The inability of the GSW to hit a lot of open 3's they were given and usually make. Was honestly shocking how many open shots they missed.
2. The tone of officiating. You could pretty much tell early in a game whether the Warriors would win or lose based on whether they rewarded the Lakers flops.
3. Jordan Poole is a horrible defender and was pretty much garbage the entire series.
Regarding the 2nd point, each team played pretty much the same game plan all series, the differences in FTs per game was not changing styles, or less contact, just what they decided to call (not saying there wasn't contact or they weren't fouls, but NBA officiating is largely discretion based, where they decide what they want to call in that particular game).
The Lakers v. Warriors series games.
Game 1 Lakers W by 5: Lakers 29 FTs ; Warriors 6 FTs
Game 2 Warriors W by 27: Lakers 17 FTs ; Warriors 16 FTs
Game 3 Lakers W by 30: Lakers 37 FTs ; Warriors 17 FTs
Game 4 Lakers W by 3: Lakers 20 FTs ; Warriors 12 FTs
Game 5 Warriors W by 15: Lakers 15 FTs ; Warriors 15 FTs
Game 6 Lakers W by 21: Lakers 42 FTs ; Warriors 14 FTs
Series total: Lakers 160 FTs ; Warriors 80 FTs
The series was decided by two main factors. And a minor 3rd.
1. The inability of the GSW to hit a lot of open 3's they were given and usually make. Was honestly shocking how many open shots they missed.
2. The tone of officiating. You could pretty much tell early in a game whether the Warriors would win or lose based on whether they rewarded the Lakers flops.
3. Jordan Poole is a horrible defender and was pretty much garbage the entire series.
Regarding the 2nd point, each team played pretty much the same game plan all series, the differences in FTs per game was not changing styles, or less contact, just what they decided to call (not saying there wasn't contact or they weren't fouls, but NBA officiating is largely discretion based, where they decide what they want to call in that particular game).
GSW took 263 three point shots in the series. The Lakers took 168. Jump shooting teams aren’t going to pick up fouls the same way teams that attack the basket do.
This result had nothing to do with refs. It had to do with a taller and bigger team attacking a weak interior defense and making it difficult to shoot from distance.
It is just poor analysis to look at the number of free throws attempted.
A 6-10 guy averaging close to 8 rebounds is an “elite rebounder,”Wags?
KD’s a hell of a player, but I think you might be trying a little too hard with that one.
He’s an elite rebounder. He’s averaged close to 8 rebounds a game for his career despite being primarily perimeter player and not having the frame to bang for boards.
He’s not just a great shooter, he’s an absurd scorer, he can score literally from every level and in every way, which plays into the fact that he’s also unselfish and a very good distributor. He also doesn’t need to dominate the ball to be effective.
And to top it off, he’s an extremely underrated defender. He’s not a lockdown perimeter guy, but a damn good help defender and one of his biggest assets to that Warriors run was his difference making at the second level defensively with his length and reactions.
7.1 rebounds while averaging 36 minutes a game is not elite. If so, Draymond averaging 7.0 in 29 minutes a game (at 5" shorter) would be more elite.
FWIW, I would call Draymond an elite rebounder. Just like Charles Barkley was at a similar size. Curry also an excellent rebounder for his size and position. Underrated part of what made that team so unreal.
I would not put Draymond Green in the same stratosphere with Barkley as a rebounder or in any other category offensively.
We know you hate Draymond, Muggs, thanks
That's not why. You're just not thinking clearly and have made an egregious error if you really think he's comparable to Barkley.
GSW took 263 three point shots in the series. The Lakers took 168. Jump shooting teams aren’t going to pick up fouls the same way teams that attack the basket do.
This result had nothing to do with refs. It had to do with a taller and bigger team attacking a weak interior defense and making it difficult to shoot from distance.
It is just poor analysis to look at the number of free throws attempted.
The GSW took very similar breakdowns of shots the entire series. So did the Lakers. As I said above, their respective game plans did not change game to game. So if officiating was consistent, each game should have had similar foul/FT breakdowns between the respective teams (more FTs for the Lakers).
But as I noted above, how fouls were called did change from game to game. That doesn't mean any games were bad refs, or good refs, just the way the game was called changed...hence in some games the Lakers shooting 40+ FTs and others 15.
Ignoring that the way the game is called differentially impacts the two teams, is frankly ignorant.
Note: Even your analysis doesn't really reflect the series. Games 1 and 2 in particular, and most of game 6, the Lakers were reasonably willing to let people shoot (not named Curry). On one play, Klay had the ball at the top of the key and Curry was open on the wing, Lebron left the ball handler, Klay, wide open to shoot the 3, so that Curry wouldn't get a possible good look. The Lakers were willing to let other players shoot, and were content with the let someone besides Curry beat us.
The big problem is the Warriors failed to capitalize on (players not named Curry) being given open looks. They lost the series because they couldn't hit open shots, and in crunch time in 2 key games did not play good defense (particularly Poole).
But ignoring how the different styles of officiating from game to game impacted the results is also ignorant. In the end, all that matters is the Warriors needed to play better. A big part of the NBA game is the variability in how the came is called from crew to crew...they need to deal with it.
Monty Williams has been fired by the Suns.
Read yesterday the Bucks like him. I didn’t realize they interviewed him when Bud was hired.
I’d probably be good with him but admit I don’t follow the NBA closely.
Hoo'd bea yo furst choice, hey?
Jay Wright.
Hoo'd bea yo furst choice, hey?
Not sure if you’re being serious, but I think he would succeed anywhere. He’s just that good.
It's hard to know. He seems like a really solid and classy person. I'm wondering if the Bucks interview Vogel or D'Antoni or if Ty Lue could be available.
D’Antoni is one name I do have a strong opinion on and it’s no effing way. 72 years old and 0-3 in conference finals. Overrated.
I'm dead serious although I don't know if he wants to coach. Give the guy whatever he wants
The Bucks just can’t afford for someone to have to learn the NBA on the fly. That’s his only downside for them. Maybe it would be a very short and/or negligible learning curve for Jay though. They could do worse than him. I love the guy.
Wouldn’t be my first choice, but wouldn’t hate it.
He's different than former college coaches that have taken the NBA plunge. I'd break the bank and reach out to him.
I definitely exaggerating with "elite" but he's an excellent rebounder, well above average at worst. 8 boards a game puts you in the top 30 in the league. Of those, 3 are non-PF/Cs (one of which is Tatum who is an excellent rebounder as well). Rebounding as a jump shooter/perimeter player is a combination of instincts, reactions, and game understanding. Being 6'10 helps, but look at guys like Michael Porter Jr or Brandon Ingram who are tall lanky scorers who play the 3 on the perimeter, they don't rebound anywhere close to KD. Same for someone like Jerami Grant.
It was more to just highlight his overall game and not just "KD is a great shooter who can't lead a team".
That's fair.
Reading on in this thread, though, I have to admit I'm surprised with how easily you seem throw around "elite."
That's fair.Has "elite" replaced "all-timer"?
Reading on in this thread, though, I have to admit I'm surprised with how easily you seem throw around "elite."
Y'all feelin' it fore #31 if he craps da bed today and gets chit canned, hey?
The Athletic is saying the Warriors intend to sign Green (who has a $27.6M player option for 2023-24) to a new multi-year deal, adding to an already burdensome luxury tax.
When things are right, he obviously has big value. Green is their connect-the-dots guy on offense, and their aggressiveness tone-setter on D and the boards. And he and Curry are team leaders with the ear of both Kerr and upper management.
But when things are wrong, as they are a little too often for a big-money guy in a leadership position, his volatile temperament and selfish actions hurt the team.
He'll be 34 a year from now, and you're gonna give him a guaranteed $30M-35M annually for multiple seasons? But if you don't, can you contend for anything?
Nobody ever said it was easy to construct a championship-caliber roster.
Y'all feelin' it fore #31 if he craps da bed today and gets chit canned, hey?Almost seems like you are hoping for that. Strange for a “Marquette fan.”
It ain't gonna end well for this punk. Too immature to handle the bread and fame. Should get off the fire water and other intoxicants. Change the posse too, aina?
https://twitter.com/Balldontlie/status/1657765408990978051?t=vDrXnavfKes-VPSlveByLA&s=01
All 6 days of rehab appear to have been effective.
Just exercising his rights, aina?
Don't give a chit what he does to himself or his other punk ass groupies so long as the innocents aren't harmed by his actions. Just sayin', the kid's an idiot and will likely choke on his bread instead of doing something productive with it and enjoying life, aina?
Nothin', he's one of their future megastars, hey?
There are no Grizzly activities. Probably coulda suspended him from those activities without pay too. So, as I said, nothin', hey?
Don't give a chit what he does to himself or his other punk ass groupies so long as the innocents aren't harmed by his actions. Just sayin', the kid's an idiot and will likely choke on his bread instead of doing something productive with it and enjoying life, aina?
What do you think the NBA will do about this one?
FWIW, I would call Draymond an elite rebounder. Just like Charles Barkley was at a similar size. Curry also an excellent rebounder for his size and position. Underrated part of what made that team so unreal.
Should be a lengthy suspension. I'm talking at least 25 games. Maybe half a season.
There are so many great young players in the NBA right now who are also great human beings. The NBA can't let this kind of activity demean all of the progress they have made developing great players and people.
You have been hired as NBA commissioner. What is your detailed plan with Mr. Morant to begin the 2023-24 season? Clearly he didn't learn the first time.
Kolek 'im, hey?
I didn't realize you knew all of these players personally. How would you know what kind of people they are or were for that matter? There weren't great people in the NBA before now because the NBA "develops" them? Also, doing something really dumb (twice) doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. As far as a 25 game suspension or more? I suppose it's possible to set some precedent. Of course Draymond Green assaulted a fellow player and the NBA and GS did nothing.
Do you even attempt to read the posts you respond to? Not just mine, but you do it all of the time.
Don’t be like Wades or Hards and make stuff up just so you have something to argue against.
Pay the mofo off and get rid of him. He's a bad role model and we already have too many of those. Of course, Silver has no balls, aina?
Sounds like the common denominator is your posts that are easily picked apart with logic and you don’t like that so you claim people make things up.
Logic is you saying “ So are you putting Chauncey Billups ahead of Kevin Durant on your all time player list or...?”
So yeah. You hit the nail on the head. I have repeatedly said Billups is greater than Durant.
Quit embarrassing yourself and read what you wrote before you tap ‘Post’.
Pay the mofo off and get rid of him. He's a bad role model and we already have too many of those. Of course, Silver has no balls, aina?Some fun instagram
How many posts are you gonna have about Morant? This is right in your wheelhouse when a black athlete does something bad.Shocked 4evrer is an anti 2A gun grabber.
Was Morant in an open-carry state when he was filmed with the gun? If the answer to is yes, then he apparently did nothing illegal. And if that's the case, why would that upset anybody who supports the 2nd Amendment?
Ted Nugent said he wanted to a his gun in Obama's mouth and pull the trigger, and he was cheered.
It’s funny seeing the reaction from the pro gun crowd here. Shouldn’t we celebrate this?
But it’s a rich, successful black male. So, not okay for him.
But yay guns! Give us more! 2nd amendment rights!
Marcus Smart's flops make Neymar blush.
How many posts are you gonna have about Morant? This is right in your wheelhouse when a black athlete does something bad.
Blue, black, green, or red doesn't matter. This has nothing to do with race and quit trying to bait me with your agenda. An idiot is an idiot, aina?
An idiot is an idiot, aina?
There are certainly plenty of bad faith/racially charged takes on Ja, but "how can you support gun ownership and criticize Morant's actions" is just a fallacy.
Tatum is just feasting on Embiid.
This is probably it for Doc.
As you well know, professional athletes all have a "professional conduct" clause in their contracts. This "thug", should he lose his livelihood, has violated that clause twice now, aina?
Peddle Embiid
Players are prohibited from performing acts of conduct which are detrimental or embarrassing to the team. Standard language, which can ultimately be grounds for termination of the player's contract, hey?
Smart money says #31 is the Bucks coach by the end of the month, aina?
Lol. I think Harden and Doc are both gone.
Smart money says #31 is the Bucks coach by the end of the month, aina?
Harden is a losing player. Doc is a good coach but his record in the playoffs is his record.
I look forward to hearing from Embiid on how he bears none of the responsibility for this bedwedding.
Actually, here's the point I and others were making:
The same people saying Rittenhouse and the wack-job St. Louis couple were heroes who had every right to use their guns however they saw fit because "2nd Amendment!" are also saying that the young Black athlete who briefly showed an apparently legally owned gun in a video is a "thug" who should lose his livelihood.
Players are prohibited from performing acts of conduct which are detrimental or embarrassing to the team. Standard language, which can ultimately be grounds for termination of the player's contract, hey?
Again, I don't care about the bad faith takes. Cause there are plenty, and they are stupid. I'm saying Ive seen plenty of people saying if you're pro-2A, you should not be criticizing Morant, period.
But again, if this was the first incident, its dumb and moved on. But this is someone who was flashing a gun in a strip club, in an incident where his entourage was allegedly shining laser lights from a scope after an argument in Indy, and who was telling trolls on Twitter they can feel hollow points. Its hardly an isolated incident.
As for the actual game, its insane how a player as good and prolific as Tatum still disappears for entire halves, if not games.
An idiot is an idiot, aina?
And you think his (apparently) legal possession of a firearm is grounds for termination of his contract?
Actually, here's the point I and others were making:
The same people saying Rittenhouse and the wack-job St. Louis couple were heroes who had every right to use their guns however they saw fit because "2nd Amendment!" are also saying that the young Black athlete who briefly showed an apparently legally owned gun in a video is a "thug" who should lose his livelihood.
For the record, I think Morant showed terrible judgment and deserves the punishment he'll get. But then again I didn't cheer on Rittenhouse, the St. Louis loons, Nugent and the other white heroes for putting Black people in their crosshairs (and in Rittenhouse's case, for unnecessarily extinguishing human lives).
Again, I don't care about the bad faith takes. Cause there are plenty, and they are stupid. I'm saying Ive seen plenty of people saying if you're pro-2A, you should not be criticizing Morant, period.
But again, if this was the first incident, its dumb and moved on. But this is someone who was flashing a gun in a strip club, in an incident where his entourage was allegedly shining laser lights from a scope after an argument in Indy, and who was telling trolls on Twitter they can feel hollow points. Its hardly an isolated incident.
As for the actual game, its insane how a player as good and prolific as Tatum still disappears for entire halves, if not games.
The same people calling a female reporter a sexpot and shaming her for dressing like a woman… are still yapping? Stfu, loser.
Tatum had one of the worst games I've seen fron a superstar for 3Q in G6. He certainly redeemed himself.
Man, what don't you get? The kid's an idiot punk and a disaster waiting to happen, hey?
Just an incredible performance
You: Durant is a top 15 player of all time.
You: Durant isn’t good enough to lead a team to a title.
Thus: Chauncey must be top 15 all time, since he was good enough to lead a team to a title.
What’s missing here? Well, besides the fact that you claimed KD has only one title, and the fact that KD has 2 Finals MVPs. And the idea that there are fewer than 15 players in the history of the sport that are good enough to lead a team to a title. So logic is missing. But it’s on your end. I’m just exposing the clear holes in your arguments. And it is very easy to do that.
You need to twist yourself into pretzels to make your arguments fit. Did you ever say that Chauncey was a top 15 player ever? No, you never posted those words. But does your logic leave that conclusion? Yup. If KD isn’t good enough to lead a team to a title (words you’ve posted), but Chauncey was good enough to lead a team to a title (just a fact), then your logic says Chauncey is better than KD, and a top 15 player ever.
Huh???
The same people calling a female reporter a sexpot and shaming her for dressing like a woman… are still yapping? Stfu, loser.
He tends to do that, true.
You were dropped on your head too many times as a child.
Your grandmother was very clumsy.
OK Great logic ;D ;D ;D. Go back to college.
When you have to reach for a player whose name I have probably never said over all the years I've been on Scoop, you smell pretty desperate to 'win'.
He's the f'ing best. Would hit harder if his production wasn't matched by PJ Tucker.
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1657887674470989825?t=DOfsYgIPww2nzYxLtJ-ztA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1657887674470989825?t=DOfsYgIPww2nzYxLtJ-ztA&s=19)
That’s a real quote? After those two guys shot 8/29? Lol.
I can't see Miami beating Boston.
Tatum will get clamped, Jaylen Brown will need to carrySpo>>>Doc, Spo will not switch a 7 footer on Tatum on the picks.
With substantially similar teams last year, this was a 7 game series. Heat in 5.
https://twitter.com/Balldontlie/status/1657914621909409795/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1657914621909409795¤tTweetUser=Balldontlie
This guy might want to stop talking until he wins something. Giannis and Jokic have both been blasted for Playoff failures and not being “Playoff performers.” Somehow Embiid doesn’t seem to get nearly as much heat, with far less success. He’s never even made a Conference Finals. But it’s never his fault. Despite playing with Harden and Butler.
The original projection for Herro's recovery was for the ECF. It would be nice to get him back for 15 minutes a game.
Addition by subtraction.or Playoff Jimmy is here!!!!
Addition by subtraction.
Addition by subtraction.
Gabe Vincent isn't exactly stealing Tyler Herro's starting spot. He's serviceable, and it's a great storyline, but I'd rather have Herro + Oladipo back.
I hope Jimmy's ankle gets better, he was nowhere near as bouncy & dominant after game 1 of the Knicks series. They'll need him at 100% every game to pull it off. I'd love to see it happen
Great point. Need a healthy JFB to have a chance. If he's good, though, Miami can play with Boston, just like last year.except Durant-signed Jockey.
Tatum was absolutely incredible the last 1 1/4 games -- truly Jordan-like -- but as I think Wags said yesterday, it's amazing how a player so talented can just disappear for long stretches. Let's wait to anoint him until he delivers over and over and over again in tough postseason series, the way true superstars do.
except Durant-signed Jockey.
Muggsy, I freely admit Durant is one of the top 3 most skilled players in the world.
He is not one of the 3 best. He cannot lead a team to a championship.
This is such a weird hill to die on. Durant is a better player than Miami, Boston and LA's best players. If anyone but Denver wins a lesser player than Durant will have "led their team to a title."
This is such a weird hill to die on. Durant is a better player than Miami, Boston and LA's best players. If anyone but Denver wins a lesser player than Durant will have "led their team to a title."
The guy likes pretzels.
The disagreements are the fun part of talking sports.
If I was trying to win a title this year, I would take LeBron in a heartbeat over Durant. I’ll take the all-around game and the champion’s mindset anytime.
If by the time Tatum is 35, he hasn't led a team to a championship, I'll say the same thing. People said it about Jordan after his first few years in the league and he proved them wrong. Same with LeBron. People have always said it about Harden and they were right on. Someone here today criticized Embiid for his lack of Playoff success. It goes with the territory if you want to be considered an all-time great. If Curry only won the 2 titles with Durant, he would be looked at differently in an historical sense. He' be a top 10 -15 player all-time as opposed to a probable Top 5.
NBA stars and NFL QBs - fairly or unfairly - are judged by rings.
Why y'all trying to cancel Ja?
so, he's been suspended...umm, from what? i double checked and the grizzlies season has been over. what's he gonna miss? the ice cream social? they get paid during the season, right? he'll probably lose some endorsements however.LOL. Right?
I would take LeBron in a heartbeat over Durant. I’ll take the all-around game and the champion’s mindset anytime.
Lol. At this point, KD's all around game is so, so much better than LBJ's.(https://media.tenor.com/AZkmVImwd5YAAAAC/godzilla-let-them-fight.gif)
Pretty sure the Bucks will fook up this hirin', hey?
You're on the short list?
Figurin' they won't want an assistant coach or a woman, so...
Nurse
Williams
Rivers, hey?
You're on the short list?No need to bring Muggsy into this
Best team for Wemby?
I was thinking Charlotte or Orlando.
Adam Silver does not approve.
Nope. Pistons fall all the way to #5.
Nobody’s going to question if the NBA is rigging this thing…
Nobody’s going to question if the NBA is rigging this thing…
It’s either rigged or the Spurs are the luckiest team in professional sports history. Robinson in 87, Duncan in 99, and tonight. Three franchise changing bigs. Come on
It’s either rigged or the Spurs are the luckiest team in professional sports history. Robinson in 87, Duncan in 99, and tonight. Three franchise changing bigs. Come on
Duncan was ‘97 no 1 overall actually.
so murray goes from super duper questionable to play tonight to playing like a teenager trying to impress nina agdal
Jokic on pace for 50 rebs.
Jokic on pace for 50 rebs.
Say what? I'm lost 🚀.
Jamal Murray did to the Lakers what Klay used to be able to do but couldn't last series. Make them pay when they play bad pick and roll defense.
I disagree with this narrative that Jokic isn't fun to watch. The guy is incredibly skilled.
Can you imagine Jokic and Curry getting to play together?
Pretty amazing that this game is far from over. Very poor defense fron Denver.
Davis has played a hell of a game.
Imagine having an MU 8 man rotation with:
Jokic
Antetokounmpo
Tatum
Curry
James
Davis
Murray
Wemby
:)
Darvin Ham strikes first in the “effective adjustment” game within the game.
Do you think we’d make a Final Four?
Agreed. Great adjustment.
Foul trouble started to get to Denver at the end too. Don't think they'd have survived an OT if it got there.
Also, this will be a tough series. Davis has been playing like his old MVP caliber self. When he plays like he has been, he's one of the best in the league and is dominant. His impact on the defensive end is insane.
Most people are when rocket man posts. You’re in good shape.
murray was listed as very questionable and quite possibly have to sit this game out dip sh!t racistGambling and dentistry do not mix well doc. From Doc Holliday to Dr. James Craig, a simple google search will tell you that
i was following very closely trying to pick my fanduel team. they took his injury status right up to the limit before announcing he would play. then my reasoning for NOT taking him is, well if he is that questionable, what kind of performance can one expect out him...well, i'd really like to know what his ailment was because their trainers, psychologists and drugs allowed him to go off for 31 pts, 5 red 5 asst & 3 steals
murray was listed as very questionable and quite possibly have to sit this game out dip sh!t racist
i was following very closely trying to pick my fanduel team. they took his injury status right up to the limit before announcing he would play. then my reasoning for NOT taking him is, well if he is that questionable, what kind of performance can one expect out him...well, i'd really like to know what his ailment was because their trainers, psychologists and drugs allowed him to go off for 31 pts, 5 red 5 asst & 3 steals
Gambling and dentistry do not mix well doc. From Doc Holliday to Dr. James Craig, a simple google search will tell you that
Y'all realize that waiting until the last minute is usually SOP with these things right?
absolutely, but just saying...davis and james typically carry the same ole "questionable" for just about every game, but murray had a slightly different designation widely reported to very possibly "missing game 1" they didn't specify, but then wouldn't one think, even if he does play, how effective will he be. he was the 4th highest rated player-read expensive. taking him for more money limited who you could take to fill in your cap space. do you call their bluff and "gamble"? or take 2-3 other players whom you think would make up for murray?
as it turns out, gordon had a dog game which is what hurt me the most. i mean they weren't even really going to him as a 3rd option. plus he only had 3 rebounds and 3 assists?? i think the real injury may have been on gordon. kcp had a nice game especially given his designation
You might have just missed it, but everything I read about Murray was that he was questionable with a non-Covid illness, but his coach even said that knowing Murray, there is little chance that he won't be out there competing like normal.
What a quarter.
Still have one more to hold off the Cs though
Inserting Cody Zeller is never a good decision.
“Jimmy Frickin Butler” Harlan said after that monster three. What a win
If you had told me 2 years ago that Strus was gonna be not just an NBA player but a pretty darn good one, I'd have laughed at you.
The most stunning thing was that, after those two games to close out Philly, Tatum faded into nothingness.
Not only didn't he help the Celtics in the 4th quarter, he choked badly -- 3 turnovers down the stretch and zero baskets.
Confounding.
This looks like a short series unfortunately.
Not so fast my friend.
If you had told me 2 years ago that Strus was gonna be not just an NBA player but a pretty darn good one, I'd have laughed at you.
I did. They could have shot more.
That was an obvious flagrant. Mark Jackson “totally disagrees” but he clearly hit him in the face.
God give me the TNT guys any day.
James bolluxing up two straight open lay ups.
Hachimura continues to be the grand theft of "trades". Wow.
He's so likeable.
I am rooting for the Lakers in this series, easy choice IMO. Tough to watch Jokic's game
He's so likeable.
I am rooting for the Lakers in this series, easy choice IMO. Tough to watch Jokic's game
TNT should have every game starting in tbe conf SF. And obviously their studio team is 1000 times better than ESPN.Totally disagree. They didn’t mention once how the Heat overcame the Boston weather to win. ESPN crew had those deep insights on weather being the main reason the Knicks lost at Miami. :o
Y’all crack me up.
That’s 2 wins in this series for Denver despite getting no 4th quarter scoring from Jokic.
Lakers getting jobbed by the refs in the waning minutes, but Denver hit their throws.
Jokic can't keep up with the geriatric Lakers footraces. Literal traffic cone
Lakers getting jobbed by the refs in the waning minutes, but Denver hit their throws.
Jokic can't keep up with the geriatric Lakers footraces. Literal traffic cone
Lakers getting jobbed by the refs in the waning minutes, but Denver hit their throws.
Jokic can't keep up with the geriatric Lakers footraces. Literal traffic cone
Murray had it going. Not a good performance by Davis or James.
I think it is hilarious that when Lebron is one rebound short of a triple double it can be classified as a 'not a good performance'.
Speaks volumes about his career.
I think it is hilarious that when Lebron is one rebound short of a triple double it can be classified as a 'not a good performance'.
Speaks volumes about his career.
Tough to watch Jokic's game
There was one no-call down the stretch that was questionable.
Overall, though, I don't think they get a more favorable whistle in the series (Lakers shot 26 FTs to only 10 by Denver until garbage time). Bad officiating overall, but they were winning the favorable whistle category.
Muggsy is right though. The league has to do better. Bad officiating in so many of the playoff games.
In the end, I don't think it affected this game. Uncharacteristic missed layups. Forcing 3-pt shots by the wrong shooters (Davis and Lebron), and TOs down the stretch are what decided this one...and amazing shooting by Murray.
not so sure about "affecting the game" many times, all it takes is a few made shots that can turn the momentum. the NBA has lost all references to what constitutes a "foul" getting wacked across the head going up for a layup? i'd venture to say foul...i mean what else are any of the 3 refs watching? the guy with the ball, the guy goes up to the basket, the guy gets hit in the head, the guys head recoils from said hit, ball fails to go thru the hoop...what are they watching for? 3 seconds?
i'm all for a let them play, but i think i've seen more blood over the past few weeks watching NBA playoffs than an average college or pro football game
Reaves has impressed me.. I would think he'll sign a pretty big contract at some point. He'd be great on the Bucks.
Speculation has been in the 4-year, $50M range.
Undrafted, worked hard, improved, made himself into a valuable player on a team with LeBron and AD. Good for him. I love those kinds of stories.
I mean, he had a good game statistically but had some head scratching moments in the 4th, same with AD who had 18-14-4, which is a very good game statistically too.
I'm not trying to pile on Lebron or say he stinks, and hes forgot more about basketball than I'll never know, but I agree with the Lakers fans on social media who get frustrated as hell when Lebron thinks he's Steph. Over the last 5 games, he's 7 for 29 from 3. And he shot 32% from deep this season, so its not just a slump. Yet to hit one in this series. There is 0 reason for him to be taking 6 a game right now. He missed 3 in a 3 min stretch to start the 4th when the Nuggets surged into the lead.
Did you watch the NBA at all in the 90s and early 2000s? It was way more brutal then.
Anyway, I think NBA referees are by and large just fine. First, it is a hard game to referee in real time, so of course there are going to be missed calls - like there are in every sport. Do we honestly expect 100% perfection? Second, I've learned long ago that message board guys really don't have a great understanding of how the game should be called anyway.
Fluffy, the officiating was not good. There's no consistency whatsoever and in the end that's essentially what people want. We also don't want stoppage of play every 30 secs for modest contact. Last night there was an F1 called on Russell for unintentionally hitting Murray in the head. Fine, that's the rule. However, when Hachimura was clearly hit in the head (unintentionally) the call was a common foul. This can't happen at this level Fluffy and it happens all the time. They even look at the monitor for certain calls and still fk things up. Consistency, that's all we want. There is none Fluffy. 0.000000
Smart is a hack.
Nice seeing Cain on the bench. I didn't know he could travel with the team?The Heat has said they want Jamal to learn by observing these games up close.
Was that call legit?
Looked like Vincent hip-bumped him in the air. Lack of focus imo
Tatum has some balls whining about Vincent pushing off to create space for that jumper … given that Tatum does that 10 times a game.
Refs trying to give it to the Cs. Let’s go Heat!
That Jimmy Butler guy sure is over-rated.
Except they missed a clear travel on the inbounds.
Also weird. Vincent shooting FTs with the ref standing in the lane.
Grant Williams poked the wrong guy but the bigger question is why was he guarding Jimmy one one one for like 6 straight possessions?
Fun game. I enjoy watching the Heat play. And I love seeing the overrated Celtics lose.
Tatum loose with the ball down the stretch (again) and zero 4th-quarter baskets (again). Just a bizarre “superstar.”
Grant Williams … what a fool. Mazzulla … musta thought he could save a time out for Game 3.
TNT thinking they invented “JFB.” Hilarious.
Bam - what a game for him. Duncan Robinson gets dug up just in time to contribute big. No Herro … addition by subtraction.
Just fun stuff.
Cause Mazulla is coaching like a 34 year old who spent 75% of his coaching career at the D2 level. He's totally over his head and has gotten this far on cruise control with a great roster and an absolute superstar as his alpha.
I think it is hilarious that when Lebron is one rebound short of a triple double it can be classified as a 'not a good performance'.
Speaks volumes about his career.
Boston still favored to win the series
Yeah, or when he has a break-a-way lay up, attempts a 180 reverse dunk and da ball trickles off his finger tips, hey?
They definitely have the talent but it's hard to see them as the favorites now.
https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/1659909521869791233?t=52lUIz2_mhWeddz3iXxAGA&s=19
He sucks. He was never any good, and he'll never be any good. Someday, maybe he'll be able to match the number of championships Tyler Herro has won.
Not impressed with the officiating in this one.
It's already been proven beyond all doubt that the NBA (through the refs) "want" the Lakers and Celtics to meet in the Finals. Despite the fix obviously being in, however, the league won't get the Lakers and very well might not get the Celtics.
So which team will the NBA rig it for so that team gets all the calls in a Nuggets-Heat series?
It's already been proven beyond all doubt that the NBA (through the refs) "want" the Lakers and Celtics to meet in the Finals. Despite the fix obviously being in, however, the league won't get the Lakers and very well might not get the Celtics.
So which team will the NBA rig it for so that team gets all the calls in a Nuggets-Heat series?
Did you see Jokic's 3rd and especially 4th foul last night? Or the Green clean block on Hachimura? Or the countless other absurd calls? Like when Reaves drove the paint, planted on two feet, didn't get Brown to bite on a shot fake, but then got a call for a "bump" after he launched? Fluffy is completely incorrect in his officiating take. They freaking looked at a replay of Jokic's "4th foul" and still fked things up. The Lakers had their 1st foul in the 3Q called at the 3:09 mark? With Schroeder hacking Murray every play? Oh.....okay. In conclusion I disagree strongly with Fluffy.
Did you see Jokic's 3rd and especially 4th foul last night? Or the Green clean block on Hachimura? Or the countless other absurd calls? Like when Reaves drove the paint, planted on two feet, didn't get Brown to bite on a shot fake, but then got a call for a "bump" after he launched? Fluffy is completely incorrect in his officiating take. They freaking looked at a replay of Jokic's "4th foul" and still fked things up. The Lakers had their 1st foul in the 3Q called at the 3:09 mark? With Schroeder hacking Murray every play? Oh.....okay. In conclusion I disagree strongly with Fluffy.
Did you see Jokic's 3rd and especially 4th foul last night? Or the Green clean block on Hachimura? Or the countless other absurd calls? Like when Reaves drove the paint, planted on two feet, didn't get Brown to bite on a shot fake, but then got a call for a "bump" after he launched? Fluffy is completely incorrect in his officiating take. They freaking looked at a replay of Jokic's "4th foul" and still fked things up. The Lakers had their 1st foul in the 3Q called at the 3:09 mark? With Schroeder hacking Murray every play? Oh.....okay. In conclusion I disagree strongly with Fluffy.
Give it up. You are totally wrong.
What happened? I thought Boston was declared as the unbeatable supreme champions of the universe on this board.
Joe Mazulla is gonna be coaching D2 ball again by next year. Seriously, he has been absolutely atrocious the entire playoffs.
Jaylen Brown on the cusp of eligibility for a Supermax, is shooting 37% and 10% from 3 in the ECF. WOOF
Also, averaged nearly 27 a game this year…hasn’t even gotten to his average since the Atlanta series. He’s on a milk carton
Joe Mazulla is gonna be coaching D2 ball again by next year. Seriously, he has been absolutely atrocious the entire playoffs.
Jaylen Brown on the cusp of eligibility for a Supermax, is shooting 37% and 10% from 3 in the ECF. WOOF
Also, averaged nearly 27 a game this year…hasn’t even gotten to his average since the Atlanta series. He’s on a milk carton
Sammy has entered the game.
Amazingly, ESPN analytics now give the Celtics an 80% chance of winning the series.
Boston was bad
But that was a clinic by Miami. They came out ready and controlled the tempo and the passing was off the charts. Kept getting so many open look 3s on the extra pass or back door cuts at the rim.
It really was a clinic. I mean clearly Mazzulla is totally over his head but Tatum and Brown were 1-14 from distance. Miami deserves all the credit for playing tremendous basketball.
“I just didn’t have them ready to play. That’s on me. I have to be better.” - Mazzulla
At least he deserves high grades for self-awareness and accountability.
I don’t think we know if Mazzulla is or isn’t a good coach. He was certainly as good as Coach Bud was in Milwaukee this year. In two more years we will be able to judge his coaching talent.
Of course he has been out-coached by Spo, but I think the best coach in the league should be out-coaching a rookie.
Yeah, when your two alleged superduperstars combine to get outscored by Gabe Vincent, you've got some problems.
Also, methinks you were a little overly exuberant early in the season not only about the Celtics as a whole but even more about Brown being a top-7 player in the world. He's talented, obviously, but he really hasn't accomplished much in his career to date -- unless one counts playing second fiddle on an annually disappointing NBA team as an accomplishment.
How good was Bernard King? He appears to have been a bit of a badass from what I've read and seen on video. His FGP with the Knicks is rather impressive. Anyway, should his number or Carmelo Anthony's number be retired at MSG?
Wow.....look at his '84-85 stats.
Prototypical small forward. High volume scorer who was one of the best players for awhile in the mid-80s, but he had knee issues that cut his career short. He was on a lot of mediocre teams too, being overshadowed by the Celtics and Sixers in the east. He only won two playoff series his entire career.
Carmello is a good comp.
Anthony is 8th on the career scoring list. Obviously he's a Hall of Famer but which team retires his jersey?
Anthony is 8th on the career scoring list. Obviously he's a Hall of Famer but which team retires his jersey?
There was a Bernard King, Isaiah Thomas shootout in the playoffs in 85 or 86 that was just amazing.
How is that a double technical? Lebron shoves a guy in the throat with his forearm. The other guy does nothing. Lebron then takes another shot at the guy...who still does nothing.
Lebron deserved a T. Gordon did nothing.
Denver made a mistake not calling for a review on Jokic's 4th foul (1st offensive). James was not set.
Jokic then just lowers a shoulder on the next possession for an obvious 5th foul.
I think the 4th would have been overturned.
Well, I'm usually the first to criticize Lebron.
In this one, he gets his due. He left it all out on the court, gave it everything he had. Just didn't have the horses to run with him in this game.
.....
That said, clearly Tristan Thompson getting a lot of playing time brings out the best in Lebron.
Nuggets are deserving conference champions.
If the Heat completes the sweep tomorrow, the NBA will be making a mistake by waiting until June 1 to start the Finals IMHO. A lot of idle time and lost momentum, and it's not like the Nuggets and Heat will lure casual fans like the Lakers and Celtics would have.
The league used to have contingent start dates for the Finals -- this earlier date if both conference finals end in 4 or 5 games, that later date if either series goes 6+. Not sure why they abandoned that.
There would be a full week off?? They need to adjust that. As for the potential mstch-up I'm curious how Miami will defend Jokic? Bam is what....6'8?
They might "need" to, but they aren't going to. June 1 is locked in as the start date.
Has Perk shared another one of his brilliant Jokic takes recently? 30,13, and 10 is pretty good for the playoffs.
How good was Bernard King? He appears to have been a bit of a badass from what I've read and seen on video. His FGP with the Knicks is rather impressive. Anyway, should his number or Carmelo Anthony's number be retired at MSG?Muggsy:
Wow.....look at his '84-85 stats.
Muggsy:Bernard King at his best was all time great basketball. Truly all time greatness. Too bad there wasn't a lot of it. I say that as someone who didn't like the Knicks. My memories were that he could have Jordan like impact on games.
Bernard King was one of the best and most exciting players in the league in the early 80s. The speed he could move down the court and to his favorite spot on the baseline was incredible. His style if bordering on iconic.
Unfortunately he had a severe ACL back when those were career ending. He also played on bad teams as well as having a cocaine problem in the late 70s
Bernard King at his best was all time great basketball. Truly all time greatness. Too bad there wasn't a lot of it. I say that as someone who didn't like the Knicks. My memories were that he could have Jordan like impact on games.
Bernard King at his best was all time great basketball. Truly all time greatness. Too bad there wasn't a lot of it. I say that as someone who didn't like the Knicks. My memories were that he could have Jordan like impact on games.
On the offensive end. Wasn't the defender that Jordan was.Ah, yes, very true.
I know he had that playoff series vs Detroit when he was dropping buckets at will with a broken finger? He seems like a cool dude and very difficult to guard. An efficient 32.9 ppg for one season doesn't exactly suck. I assume the rest of his roster wasn't very good?
Lebron starting the cryptic "maybe I'll retire" game. Probably to try and get the Lakers to trade what assets they have for Kyrie.
Yea, I don’t buy it until Bronny has a year in the league.
He’s clearly still able to play at a high level.
Jayson Tatum has more turnovers than he has field goal attempts in the fourth quarters of the Eastern Conference Finals.
Humbly, I wonder if he'll make a field goal in the fourth quarter for the first time this series tonight.
I just think its his way keep the spotlight on himself, just like ol A-Rod did in GB. Get a bunch of people and media begging him to keep playing.
The only way I could see it is him retiring for a year to rest and recover and then coming back to wherever Bronny ends up as a second round pick next year.
Jayson Tatum has more turnovers than he has field goal attempts in the fourth quarters of the Eastern Conference Finals.
Humbly, I wonder if he'll make a field goal in the fourth quarter for the first time this series tonight.
If they bow out it will be interesting what happens to Brown. He's been absolutely abysmal and was great last year in the playoffs and Finals. Do the C's give him 300m?
Herro has been cleared to resume bball activityDoes he have to return the hat?
Does he have to return the hat?
Does he have to return the hat?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvefgPlXwAY6pTc?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Poor Jamal Cain.
Why? Sitting next to Papa Smurf is a spot of honor!
End it tonight. Let him have a week to get game ready.
They seem to play better without him. The ball doesn't stop. Will the Heat be focused this evening? I have some concern.
They might "need" to, but they aren't going to. June 1 is locked in as the start date.
I don't think it will matter if the "need" to or not. I have a feeling this Miami/Boston series will go to 7 games.
https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1659681980076654592?s=20
Unskilled trash basketball player.
Who I hope the Bucks take at 58. Or Jordan Miller.
https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1659681980076654592?s=20Excellent Explosion and Agility. The shooting prowess was impressive and unexpected .
Unskilled trash basketball player.
Who I hope the Bucks take at 58. Or Jordan Miller.
Excellent Explosion and Agility. The shooting prowess was impressive and unexpected .
He's worth a flyer in the 2nd round. Hard to evaluate his shooting in an open gym though.
Vincent being out for G5 is a big loss for Miami.
Yeah Herro (starting PG) and Vincent (backup PG) leaves a bit of a hole. Lowry is going to have to play more serious minutes.
Well, losing Herro actually filled in a hole.
Losing Herro didn't make the rest of the team start actually making their threes. Vincent has stepped up, though. At the same time Strus has faded a bit.
https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1659681980076654592?s=20
Starting to remind me of 2020 when Jimmy looked great…until he hit a wall.
Jimmy almost averaged a triple double in the finals in 2020. The Heat's problem in 2020 was Bam got injured.
Same problem for the most part right now. Injuries catching up with the Heat, and the Celtics are starting to hit some shots.
Tatum has been the best player on the floor the last two games and yes, guys are making shots. if they're going to get 45 pts from White and Smart it's really difficult to beat them. The offensive rebounds, which led to many of these open threes is what killed Miami yesterday along with turnovers. They need to flip those stats Saturday. Then it's about whether Miami needs Jimmy to have a huge offensive game or can the Heat go lights out from distance like G3? Boston's best is better than Miami's best. Hopefully Miami puts it all together and Boston melts down.
Jimbo better get the job done. He talks a lot of talk. Would hate to see it come back to bite him.
He might want to get a ring before he starts talking the way he does.
Jimbo wore himself out with all his talking. Hate to see it.
Jimbo wore himself out with all his talking. Hate to see it.
No box out from Strus.
This aged well, as usual
Well, losing Herro actually filled in a hole.
Jimbo wore himself out with all his talking. Hate to see it.
No box out from Strus.
This aged well, as usual
You’re basketball stupid.
You’re basketball stupid.
In his defense, very rare to get two decent cracks at it in only 3 seconds. Ball had to bounce perfectly back at White.
Anyone who can’t see how much better the Heat are without Herro is probably the person who’s basketball stupid.
Let’s see. Coach Spo and I are basketball stupid and you’re smart. LOL
5-21 is a good performance according to the basketball geniuses here. I’ll take being basketball stupid then.
Jimmy shot it poorly. But as usual was great down the stretch. In spite of two missed wide open 3s by their best shooter and little help from Bam Jimmy had the game won for the Heat - until Strus and an unlucky bounce. Sh!t happens.
Coach Spo’s team was 4 minutes away from missing the Playoffs entirely while playing Herro all year. His team is now one win away from the NBA Finals with Herro playing the first half of the first game.
Way to put yourself on Eric Spoelstra’s level though. LOL indeed.
Jimmy shot it poorly. But as usual was great down the stretch. In spite of two missed wide open 3s by their best shooter and little help from Bam Jimmy had the game won for the Heat - until Strus and an unlucky bounce. Sh!t happens.
He’s not playing due to an injury. If he was healthy, Spo would play him (as he did all year). You wouldn’t. Which one of you is basketball stupid.
The fact that you couldn’t connect the dots means we can drop the word “basketball”.
“If you ignore the first 44 minutes of a 48 minute game, Jimmy was awesome! You’re a basketball idiot if you disagree!”
Guy shot 5/21 in a closeout game at home. He was horrendous.
But yes, it’s on guys like Max Strus to carry the Heat to a title, not their best player.
I think production in the 4Q should be amplified but you can't discount what actually happened during the course of the game. This would have been a blowout if Caleb Martin didn't keep Miami in the game for the first 15 mins. Duncan Robinson missed two wide open threes in the closing minutes, no doubt about that. But he made several big shots before the closing 2 mins. Jimmy starting 3-19 and Bam not doing much either was too much to overcome.
Correct. And Spo would’ve been in Cancun a month ago had Herro not been injured.
Anyone who can’t see how much better the Heat are without Herro is probably the person who’s basketball stupid.
Remember when Tatum missed everything for three quarters vs Philly but won it for the Celtics down the stretch? That’s what Jimmy did tonight. He didn’t need Max Strus to “carry the team”, he needed him to do his (ranger simple) job.
Your personal vendetta against Butler has led to a lot of ridiculous takes here. The guy has been spectacular in the playoffs. You’ve been somewhat less than that.
I'm not sure that Herro is worth the contract he starts next season, but I think it's silly to think they're better off without a 20 ppg guy and their best three point shooter.
You are aware the Heat made it to the exact same point of the playoffs one year ago with him, right?!?! He played in 15 of their postseason games last year during that run to ECF game 7 and held a 2-1 series lead before his injury essentially ended his play except for a brief game 7 appearance.
Your take that it’s so obvious they’re much better without him is flat out asinine.
See above. Him and Poole are one and the same. Ball stopping, inefficient scorers who couldn’t defend a 7th grade CYO guard. But hey, they score 20 ppg, they’re awesome!
See above. Him and Poole are one and the same. Ball stopping, inefficient scorers who couldn’t defend a 7th grade CYO guard. But hey, they score 20 ppg, they’re awesome!
Coach Spo learning what Sam and Joey knew, you don’t want to play basketball with Tyler Herro
I know no one is giving Miami a chance now but this series has been so wild anything can happen.
I'm not sure that Herro is worth the contract he starts next season, but I think it's silly to think they're better off without a 20 ppg guy and their best three point shooter.
Yes, never say never and all that, but that was just a devastating way to lose and when that happens, teams just don’t recover. Miami is even more up against it in a road game 7.
He's a hellofa playa and dat's watt hellofa playas go fore deez daze, aina?
“I told the guys in the locker room that if I play better, we're not even in this position, honestly speaking.” -- Jimmy Butler
The Heat were a combined 0-10 in games reffed by tonight’s refs Tony Brothers and Scott Foster during the regular season. The Celtics were 7-2
The Heat were a combined 0-10 in games reffed by tonight’s refs Tony Brothers and Scott Foster during the regular season. The Celtics were 7-2
The Heat were a combined 0-10 in games reffed by tonight’s refs Tony Brothers and Scott Foster during the regular season.
Yay!!! Pre-game conspiracies!!!!
One of the reasons they announce the refs before games, is because gamblers want to know. Different refs officiate the games differently, and it has impacts on the games.
Doesn't mean a conspiracy, doesn't mean its unbalanced, but officiating does matter.
My personal opinion, Brothers is terrible. Foster is just as bad. They shouldn't be reffing together in a pivotal game 7.
But the game will be decided by the players.
If I remember correctly, in an anonymous player vote, Brothers ranked near the top in both best referee and worst referee categories.
The odds against losing 10 consecutive pick ‘em games (not saying these 10 games were 50/50 games but the Heat were around a .500 team) are slightly higher than 10,000 to 1. Interesting.
That reiterates that the referees have serious issues. Now had that Smart miss bounced a different direction the Heat would have won but it is what it is.
Brutal start, especially 5v4 for 5 minutes
nba has turned in to a completely random slop fest of drive and kick out...no plays...reminds me of a last play in football lateral fest
Boston 0-10 from distance.
Jimmy needs to stop shot faking every time. Hurt him.three times inside.
Love Jimmy asserting himself, quiet 16 about to get loud
Love Jimmy asserting himself, quiet 16 about to get loud
Bam is brutally bad. So soft.
We are all witnesses. The Caleb Martin game.
At some point the NBA has to put an end to the Marcus Smart flopping.
Hed immediately be filing for unemployment.
Sammy time.Instant offense for the Heat
Appears Sam was not the answer. Who would’ve guessed that? Guy gets cooked by Duncan Robinson and Duncan trolls all of Boston on the way back to the bench lol.
Hate to see it.
JAMAL!!!!
Before the game my son said Heat by 20. I chalked it up to 16yo cockiness, and I don’t think the Heat get there against a healthy Tatum. But, I told him I’d give him credit on Scoop. Feels so good.
Damn Ernie, at least give Caleb Martin a minute to talk after a tremendous performance.
Ernie was too busy talking about tweets he got from Buzz.
Butler said that Williams taught him to trust his teammates and that those lessons were continued by Riley and Spoelstra.
#lifelessonswithbrent. When you’re in legal trouble, get all witnesses together and get on the same page. #trustyourteammates
The Celtics could use a coach with experience. Sticking with Mazzulla would be a really bad idea after watching this series. They look brilliant at times, but also look horribly undisciplined as well.
The Celtics could use a coach with experience. Sticking with Mazzulla would be a really bad idea after watching this series. They look brilliant at times, but also look horribly undisciplined as well.
Agree. Stevens might be thinking that his coach, like players, will improve with experience. It’s not an outrageous thought. Still, when you have championship-caliber talent, letting your coach learn on the fly is probably not the best idea.
There was a stretch when the Celtics were down by about 15 but still had time to get back in the game. Instead of continuing to work for good shots they took several horrible, selfish shots that also resulted in break-out opportunities for Miami. Then they subbed in Sam. Game over. Just one of numerous examples of an unsteady hand at the wheel.
Glad they lost, though, so yay Coach Mazzulla!
And it was the same under Udoka and the end of Stevens' time. The core guys shrink when it gets tough.
I wouldn't go so far and say Tatum shrinks. He's had several enormous performances in pressure games. Now yesterday and the entire seroes Brown was clearly a disaster. After Tatum turned his ankle I thought his body language was terrible. We have seen this happen to guys and they have willed their way to contribute mightily. I've only seen the replay of it but Isiah Thomas vs the Lakers comes mind. That was an all time great and gutty performance.
Tatum should've texted Kobe.
I thought his body language was awful and his leadership skills were nowhere to be found after he turned the ankle. Now he is young but has a lot of experience. Even after the game he was essentially making excuses. And that goes for the entire Celtics team as they are constantly complaining and engaging in narcissistic douchebaggery.
The fact of the matter is the better team won, period. The refs also didn't exactly help the Heat in this contest. They had liike two FT's with 5 mins to go in the game and never got a whistle at the rim. Smart "takes a charge" after looking like a bump on Jimmy was analogous to getting run over by a rhino, his bcrap needs to stop.
if you're Boston what do you do with Brown and Mazzulla? Do you sign Brown for 300m? What's a viable trade? Have you seen enough of Mazzulla? Obviously he wasn't very good but is the youngest coach in the league in his 1st year. Personally, I think I get rid of both of them but they have to get the right pieces for Brown. And what happens if Sam through the advice of his family writes a letter?
I thought his body language was awful and his leadership skills were nowhere to be found after he turned the ankle. Now he is young but has a lot of experience. Even after the game he was essentially making excuses. And that goes for the entire Celtics team as they are constantly complaining and engaging in narcissistic douchebaggery.
The fact of the matter is the better team won, period. The refs also didn't exactly help the Heat in this contest. They had liike two FT's with 5 mins to go in the game and never got a whistle at the rim. Smart "takes a charge" after looking like a bump on Jimmy was analogous to getting run over by a rhino, his bcrap needs to stop.
if you're Boston what do you do with Brown and Mazzulla? Do you sign Brown for 300m? What's a viable trade? Have you seen enough of Mazzulla? Obviously he wasn't very good but is the youngest coach in the league in his 1st year. Personally, I think I get rid of both of them but they have to get the right pieces for Brown. And what happens if Sam through the advice of his family writes a letter?
I think the Celtics need to explore the market for Brown this year. The idea of giving him a Super Max would make me queasy, but then since he would be a UFA at the end of the season, I don't know what the alternative would be outside of a trade to a willing partner that would give up something big in return.
I thought his body language was awful and his leadership skills were nowhere to be found after he turned the ankle. Now he is young but has a lot of experience. Even after the game he was essentially making excuses. And that goes for the entire Celtics team as they are constantly complaining and engaging in narcissistic douchebaggery.
Whatup Monty. Get that bag.
I think he’s a good coach but I don’t know…
NBA teams are swimming in money these days so they might as well pay big for the coach they want.
It sounds pretty insane.
The current CBA splits revenue between the owners and the players about 50/50. The current media deals are so lucrative that the top players make $50M per year. So teams have plenty of $$ to dish out to a coach.
I just question if Monty is worth that much, but the Pistons do.
I think he’s a good coach but I don’t know…
NBA teams are swimming in money these days so they might as well pay big for the coach they want.
What about the luxury taxes most good teams are paying?
The current CBA splits revenue between the owners and the players about 50/50. The current media deals are so lucrative that the top players make $50M per year. So teams have plenty of $$ to dish out to a coach.
I just question if Monty is worth that much, but the Pistons do.
Well if he is worth it what are Pop, Spo, and Kerr worth? I think we are seeing from Spo and Miami that coaching does matter but truthfully I have no idea how you differentiate between most of the coaches in the NBA. We've had 5 former COY's fired. Quinn Snyder, Carlisle, McMillan, all seem like good coaches. How exactly do you differentiate between most of them notwithstanding what Spo has done vs other coaches and teams this year?
Interesting what-doomed-the-Celtics stat from The Athletic:
Brown and Tatum shot a combined 18 for 90 from the 3-point arc during the series, an almost unfathomable 20 percent. Caleb Martin alone made four more 3-pointers than Boston’s two All-Stars combined — and he did it on 45 fewer attempts.
Heat defense causes teams to play poorly. The C's didn't have any chance in the coaching duel, but still the Heat just get under team's skin and turn the game ugly. Love to see it.
Denver in 4 or 5. Don't think it'll be that close. They'll have a shot with Spo and Jimmy, but Malone is significantly better than Thibs or Mazzulla.
Miami will have to go bananas from distance to have a chance? Nikola is a problem imo.
Yet Jokic is "tough to watch." We find very different things to be entertaining in terms of basketball.
I prefer to watch my team win, yes.
Ah right. The Nuggets bowed out of the Playoffs long ago and we shouldn't give Jokic a 3rd straight MVP because he's tough to watch and can't perform in the Playoffs.
Man you're arguing with yourself here. Go set up strawmans for someone else.
He's so likeable.
I am rooting for the Lakers in this series, easy choice IMO. Tough to watch Jokic's game
Lakers getting jobbed by the refs in the waning minutes, but Denver hit their throws.
Jokic can't keep up with the geriatric Lakers footraces. Literal traffic cone
Are we sure?
Man you're arguing with yourself here. Go set up strawmans for someone else.
Don't say that Skat..., he'll do it again to me next.
Me not liking watching Jokic's game, or Giannis' bully ball, doesn't mean I don't think he's good or effective. He gets gassed fast. Sucking air at the time, unable to keep up on the Laker's breaks cause he's still not in perfect shape. You're reading way too much into this.
It's not fun watching Jokic, or Giannis, or Embiid for me. Bully ball is not that fun. Man, even Jimmy is not fun to watch unless you're rooting for him. Thankfully I root for him so him getting under people's skin, poking the ball away, drawing fouls is a blast.
Totally normal to pick a fight about comments from 2 weeks ago, though. Touch grass homie
Don't say that Skat..., he'll do it again to me next.
Me not liking watching Jokic's game, or Giannis' bully ball, doesn't mean I don't think he's good or effective. He gets gassed fast. Sucking air at the time, unable to keep up on the Laker's breaks cause he's still not in perfect shape. You're reading way too much into this.
It's not fun watching Jokic, or Giannis, or Embiid for me. Bully ball is not that fun. Man, even Jimmy is not fun to watch unless you're rooting for him. Thankfully I root for him so him getting under people's skin, poking the ball away, drawing fouls is a blast.
Totally normal to pick a fight about comments from 2 weeks ago, though. Touch grass homie
Curious - who are your favorite players to watch?
Or just pointing out the total contradiction in how great it is to watch the Heat ugly games up, but Jokic, Embiid, Giannis being tough to watch or unenjoyable to watch because they play bully ball.
You don't understand enjoying when a team that you root for has a defense that frustrates the other team, resulting in their offense disintegrating? Man you're just arguing to argue.
Here's a hot take for you folks: The NBA would be more fun to watch if it were just guards and forwards.
Huge size advantage for Denver.
Vincent is getting torched.
Yes!!! I'm a proponent of a 6'0 and under league!!
Because he’s a career role player put into a starting role due to Herro’s injury.
And he’s small.
Jokic didn’t shoot the ball until there were 3 seconds left in the first and still dominated that first quarter. Love watching that dude play.
Let's not attack diminutive people. The guy has been great the entire playoffs. But against Denver he's got some probs with their overall size. :(
Great? He’s been serviceable.
He's hit some big shots and made a significant contribution in their series win vs Boston.
Struss is not exactly lighting it up right now.
Lots of open looks on both ends for the Heat, if they continue to miss open threes and give up uncontested shots, it’s gonna be a long…err…short series. Good thing is they are absolutely getting open looks.
Jokic is so good at that extra little nudge, shoulder, hip, grab, shuffle. He creates so much space.
People on the Internet comparing that the Heat only have 2 FTA, but it's not like the Heat are initiating a ton of contact on offense. Weird jump shooting strategy this game is not paying off, even though we are getting a ton of open looks.
Miami needs to attack the rim more, Jimmy in particular. But their bigger problem is on the defensive end.
Even with poor defense this game, it was within 10 points in the waning minutes. Gives me hope for the series if shots start falling.
The Nuggets supporting cast are quick and fun to watch operate.
I think this is a must win gane for Miami. They're not winning 4/5.
I think this is a must win gane for Miami. They're not winning 4/5.
Did you think the Bucks would win 4/5 after going down 2-0 in 2021? I admit that I didn't.
This is tangential but I unfortunately caught a few minutes of ESPN's pregame. Here's my synopsis:
Greenburg was awful.
Wilbon was awful.
Rose was awful.
Smith was awful.
Move Breen/Jackson/Van Gundy to TNT and just let that network do every playoff game.
The espn crew is so bad
Malone just ripped his team a new one.
The espn crew is so bad
Gabe Vincent is just a straight up better basketball player than Tyler Herro. Sure, if you want a guy to carry an offense through a regular season you probably want Tyler Herro over Gabe Vincenet. And then your offense will be a bottom of the league offense, like the Heat's was all season. And it gives your defensive unit an absolute target to attack anytime your opponent wants.
If you want an efficient, team player who helps your team win in the Playoffs and who will at least pretend to care defensively, you want Vincent over Herro.
Gabe Vincent isn’t a better basketball player than Tyler Herro. That’s just nonsense.
But Vincent took 12 shots yesterday, made 8, scored 23 which led the team, and you have yet to give the young man props.
Lol. I failed to give him props on a Marquette message board? Oh no!!!
Anyway a games performance is nice. Herro is a better player.
You disparaged him for no reason whatsoever. He's proven to be a valuable asset for Miami during the course of these playoffs and plays with no fear or hesitation.
Gabe Vincent is just a straight up better basketball player than Tyler Herro. Sure, if you want a guy to carry an offense through a regular season you probably want Tyler Herro over Gabe Vincenet. And then your offense will be a bottom of the league offense, like the Heat's was all season. And it gives your defensive unit an absolute target to attack anytime your opponent wants.
If you want an efficient, team player who helps your team win in the Playoffs and who will at least pretend to care defensively, you want Vincent over Herro.
This is just straight up, objectively incorrect.
Gabe Vincent isn’t a better basketball player than Tyler Herro. That’s just nonsense.
He's definitely better than Herro. A significantly better defender, takes & makes smart shots, keeps the offense flowing. Herro is a ball stopper, volume shooter, and a sieve on D. I hope they trade him this off-season and use the $ to pay Vincent+ another role player
Ah recency bias is so funny….
Anyway there are real questions about Herro’s contract. But his numbers are better than Vincent’s consistently throughout their careers.
Vincent is not better than Herro. I think the point everyone is trying to make for this Heat team is addition by subtraction. The change in the rotation with Vincent starting has been a net positive. If Herro was playing you don't get the same contributions in the playoffs from Vincent, Martin, and Robinson.
Replacing a better player with a worse player is not "addition by subtraction." At best your assertion in the last sentence is unproveable. At worst, and pretty much where I fall, is that it's nonsense.
Can a better player be a worse teammate Fluffy? Look at what the Heat are doing without him. They don't beat Boston without Martin for starters. You're not looking at the full picture, basketball isn't simply about offensive stats or what individual is better offensively. The minutes other players on the Heat are getting is a direct result of Herro's absence. To suggest that you cannot have a better team when you lose a 20ppg scorer is false. This isn't 5th grade recess.
The Heat were 44-38 playing every team in the NBA throughout the regular season. They lost game 1 of the play in games and were 4 hot streak Strus minutes away from losing to the Bulls and missing the Playoffs.
Herro then played one half of Playoff basketball for the Heat. Since then they've played 5 games against the Bucks, 6 against the Knicks, 7 against the Celtics, and 2 against the Heat. So 14 games against the 3 best teams in the NBA and 6 against a solid Knicks team. They're 13-7 against those teams.
You're sticking your head further and further into the sand if you can't see the Heat are a much better team without their ball stopping, high volume scoring, zero defending guard available.
The Heat were 44-38 playing every team in the NBA throughout the regular season. They lost game 1 of the play in games and were 4 hot streak Strus minutes away from losing to the Bulls and missing the Playoffs.
These guys are pros and have stepped in (and maybe up) with the absence of Herro. Perhaps with Herro the Heat have an even better playoff run, perhaps not. What I will say is that often times when a star or focal point of a team is out the other players move the ball better, trust more, work a little more getting their chance which can lead to wins and the thought that the team is better. I’m not sure who is better between Herro and Vincent, but what I do know is that the non-stars have proven to be invaluable in this series. Sometimes the team is better when certain pieces fit together flawlessly, one player can do what they do best knowing the others are filling a gap or role. That doesn’t mean a specific player that filled in or is out is better or worse, just a different make up and match up.
Replacing a better player with a worse player is not "addition by subtraction." At best your assertion in the last sentence is unproveable. At worst, and pretty much where I fall, is that it's nonsense.
Silver made the call after the 1st quarter.
The league wants Denver to win.
3 egregious calls on Vincent alone.
Miami missed too many open shots in the first half.
Miami missed too many open shots in the first half.
Jimmy sleepwalking on D, gotta start making shots again. It’s early!
Silver made the call after the 1st quarter.
The league wants Denver to win.
3 egregious calls on Vincent alone.
Jeesh, Jokic is good.
Wild take, I know.
Christian Braun, sheesh
That was a important last minute for the Heat. 14 is manageable. :)
Miami shot 37%, 31% from three. Vincent regressed to the mean. But Tyler Herro is still “addition by subtraction” right? 🙄🙄🙄
Miami shot 37%, 31% from three. Vincent regressed to the mean. But Tyler Herro is still “addition by subtraction” right? 🙄🙄🙄
they'll be just fine
He had a bad gane and his early foul trouble didn't help. I suppose if Herro was playing he would have never had a single bad performance.
But even if we accept the premise that the Heat are better when Vincent plays than Herro, this shows why addition by subtraction is not a thing in sports (unless a guy causes locker room issues). It would have still been better for the Heat to have Herro so when Vincent is having a bad night, they can sub in Herro who is better than the guy backing up Vincent last night. If the Heat are truly better with Vincent, having Herro available shouldn't change that. Spo is one of the top basketball coaches in the world. I don't think he would blindly play Herro over Vincent if his team was truly better with Vincent. If both were available and his team was truly better with Vincent, he would bench Herro and play Vincent big minutes.
You have to look at the playoffs as a whole. Vincent and Martin have been huge in their wins. Vincent isn't better than Herro, it about the rotation now and the collective production of several players. Herro is a very good iso scorer but that would not have been a winning formula for the Heat in the playoffs and would have truncated the minutes of three players that have all been highly important to their Finals run.
This guy gets it. Do we really think it's just a coincidence that after a full season of playing every team in the NBA, the Heat lose Herro and then play the 3 best teams in the NBA plus a solid but not spectacular Knicks team and have a much better winning percentage and a much, much better offensive efficiency? Their offense changed without Herro. The ball actually moves. They're clearly a better team without Herro in the lineup.
But oh no! They looked bad for a single game!
The Heat in this series? They are not “just fine.”
Or Denver could be the better team.
This guy gets it. Do we really think it's just a coincidence that after a full season of playing every team in the NBA, the Heat lose Herro and then play the 3 best teams in the NBA plus a solid but not spectacular Knicks team and have a much better winning percentage and a much, much better offensive efficiency? Their offense changed without Herro. The ball actually moves. They're clearly a better team without Herro in the lineup.
But oh no! They looked bad for a single game!
I noticed that Fluffy essentially said nothing positive about Vincent or Robinson after G2 but is now excoriating Gabe because he had a bad game. The fact of the matter is, as you have stated repeatedly, Miami without Herro no longer has a perpetual ball stopper who dribbles superfluously like Kyrie. The flow of the offense is completely different with far better ball and player movement. It's not about which individual is better, it's about whether the team is better.
I really love watching Jokic play. In addition to his physical talent, he "thinks" and "sees" such a great game. He's like Gretzky or Bird or Magic in the way he anticipates openings in the opposing defense.
Van Gundy made a really good point about how soft Jokic's shot is -- he gets bounces that a lot of others don't, and often those bounces happen after a spinning move during which he has to contort that big body of his.
A truly unique offensive talent, and one that would have excelled in any era IMHO.
Ah, shifting goalposts I see....
Not at all. Is that your euphemism for I don't have a rebuttal? :)
Again, you said "addition by subtraction." Now when shown how ridiculous a statement that is, you are merely parroting someone else's point.
Have a good day Fluffy. The whole point of addition by subtraction is that multiple guys are now involved and the ball movement is better.
Fore a basketball chat board, itz amazin' how many y'all don't no chit 'bout ball, hey?
Woj knew nothing about interpersonal relationships or coaching a team. Plus, he was either stubborn, ignorant, or both and didn't learn. So yeah, the Hausers were write. Move on if you don't like something. The differences between Shaka and Woj are so apparent. Pretty sure Smart would neva gotten his tit stuck in a wringer like Woj did, aina?
The Heat in this series? They are not “just fine.”
"I'm back!" ~Joe Prunty
"I'm back!" ~Joe Prunty
Between Prunty and Stotts on Stats coming back, we are seeing some of the Greatest Hits.
First Stotts...now Prunty.
Wonder what Scott Skiles or Larry Drew are up to.
You have to look at the playoffs as a whole. Vincent and Martin have been huge in their wins. Vincent isn't better than Herro, it about the rotation now and the collective production of several players. Herro is a very good iso scorer but that would not have been a winning formula for the Heat in the playoffs and would have truncated the minutes of three players that have all been highly important to their Finals run.
None of this addresses what I posted. Herro being available or not available has nothing to do with how Vincent or Martin have performed in the playoffs. If Herro was available, Spo could have still played Vincent and Martin in the exact same way and just had Herro come off the bench, or sit on the bench in case of emergency. I guarantee you that even if you accept the premise that Heat are better with Vincent and Martin playing big minutes, Herro is at very least better than the last guy on the roster. Ergo, not addition by subtraction.
Herro averaged 35 mins a game during the course of the season and close to 17 shots per game. I disagree that Spo would have played Martin, Vincent, or Robinson close to the minutes they have gotten in the playoffs.
Herro averaged 35 mins a game during the course of the season and close to 17 shots per game. I disagree that Spo would have played Martin, Vincent, or Robinson close to the minutes they have gotten in the playoffs.
So are you saying that Spo, one of the best current basketball coaches in the world, couldn't figure out what lineup and rotations are best for his team? But you can?
Even if this is true, thats a coaching issue, not addition by subtraction
No, that's what you're saying.
I'm stating that Herro’s absence forced him to change his minutes distribution as it would any coach and that those three players wouldn't have gotten the same minutes in the playoffs.
So spo can only figure out his best lineup when he's forced to change it? He cant figure it out of all players are healthy? Personally, i think Spo is smarter than that
No, that's what you're saying.
I'm stating that Herro’s absence forced him to change his minutes distribution as it would any coach and that those three players wouldn't have gotten the same minutes in the playoffs.
It can happen. Sometimes you don't know what you have until guys are forced to play more minutes and take on a greater role. Especially under playoffs pressure. I mean Duncan Robinson was hardly playing at all during the regular season and he's come up large in a bunch of games.
So we’re going with either 1) Drew Bledsoe was better than Tom Brady OR 2) Bill Bellichick is an idiot and bad football coach?
Sometimes when coaches are forced to change things due to injury we find out that what we’re limited players are actually better than the guys who were getting the playing time. Even for great coaches!
Maybe Denver is the better team.
You missed some details in that comparison.
1. Belichek wasnt a great coach at that point. He was a guy with a career sub 500 record (which he's always been without Brady). Spo is a guy with multiple championships and has been great with multiple superstars.
2. Bledsoe was hurt in the first or second game of the season, not at the end of an 82 game regular season.
3. Unless there's an injury, you typically only play one qb in an actual game. Spo has had plenty of live game action to see how the team plays with Herro and Vincent on the floor
4. We don't know that Belichek wouldnt have made the same move even if Bledsoe didn't get hurt. We also don't know if the patriots would have done as good or better with Bledsoe
My main disagreement with this while Vincent/Herro debate is that some, most notably yourself, are acting as if this is so obvious that anyone who doesn't see it is an idiot. Well Spo qpparantly didn't see it for a long time so logically he must be an idiot. And for all we know he's still an idiot who's only not playing Herro because of injury.
Maybe, just maybe there are other factors at play that have led to Miamis dominance in the playoffs besides the absensce of Herro. Most notably Jimmy going God mode and Vincent and others pouncing above their weight foe a short stretch. And maybe there are factors that contributed to their underwhelming regular season.
Jimmy went into God mode against the Bucks. He shouldn’t have even won ECF MVP. He’s been good. But he was good all year.
They’ve now played over 25% of what the regular season is in the Playoffs. 15 of the 21 games against the 3 best teams in the NBA, and the other 6 against a good but not great Knicks team. This is no longer “for a short stretch.” They’re just good basketball players. It IS very clear that the Heat are a better team when they don’t have a bright blinking target to attack defensively and a ball stopping, high volume scorer on offense. I don’t know how it’s even debatable. .536 winning percentage against every team in the NBA over 82 games. .500 against the 8 and 9 seed in the 2 Play In games. .619 in 21 games against the very best teams in the league without Herro. Vastly better offensive rating against the best teams in the league in the Playoffs than they had with Herro in the regular season. Objectively, it’s not even a debate.
Jimmy went into God mode against the Bucks. He shouldn’t have even won ECF MVP. He’s been good. But he was good all year.
They’ve now played over 25% of what the regular season is in the Playoffs. 15 of the 21 games against the 3 best teams in the NBA, and the other 6 against a good but not great Knicks team. This is no longer “for a short stretch.” They’re just good basketball players. It IS very clear that the Heat are a better team when they don’t have a bright blinking target to attack defensively and a ball stopping, high volume scorer on offense. I don’t know how it’s even debatable. .536 winning percentage against every team in the NBA over 82 games. .500 against the 8 and 9 seed in the 2 Play In games. .619 in 21 games against the very best teams in the league without Herro. Vastly better offensive rating against the best teams in the league in the Playoffs than they had with Herro in the regular season. Objectively, it’s not even a debate.
Jimmy went into God mode against the Bucks. He shouldn’t have even won ECF MVP. He’s been good. But he was good all year.
They’ve now played over 25% of what the regular season is in the Playoffs. 15 of the 21 games against the 3 best teams in the NBA, and the other 6 against a good but not great Knicks team. This is no longer “for a short stretch.” They’re just good basketball players. It IS very clear that the Heat are a better team when they don’t have a bright blinking target to attack defensively and a ball stopping, high volume scorer on offense. I don’t know how it’s even debatable. .536 winning percentage against every team in the NBA over 82 games. .500 against the 8 and 9 seed in the 2 Play In games. .619 in 21 games against the very best teams in the league without Herro. Vastly better offensive rating against the best teams in the league in the Playoffs than they had with Herro in the regular season. Objectively, it’s not even a debate.
I thought if you broke the hoop by hanging on the rim it was an automatic technical.
Thought that was invoked in the Shaq era.
The NBA just cannot stop rewarding flopping.
True, that was awful. But Jokic’s 4th foul was just a stupid decision by such a smart player.
Just turned it on, nice little push by the Heat and a JFB and 1. Stay aggressive, this would be a massive win.
So was Spo intentionally tanking or an idiot? I mean if it's not even debatable
“I was provided the facts and there’s absolutely no argument to be made, so I’ll ask a dumb question instead.”
So Bellichick was intentionally tanking or an idiot.
The results speak for themselves. It’s clear as day.
Bruce Brown just attacking Duncan Robinson.
Good timing. Can they pull this off??
Thought Miami was going to get this one. They got about as friendly a whistle as they could have hoped for. The Nuggets just have too many horses.
The Nuggets kind of have an ideal team build right now.
Two big time stars, where one of them does not really require big-time scoring to completely dominate the game. It give Murray the opportunity to play his game. Then they have assembled a great cast of players that know their role and play with very high energy.
Too many of the other teams with a Big Two, have their stars clash, where both really need to be dominating the ball and scoring to impact the game.
Jokic is really a unique and special star.
Maybe it was Olidipo getting injured that spurred their success, or a butterfly flapping its wings in St. Petersburg.
Your argument atet "it is very clear" has no merit. The better explanation is that they are a very good team period, and their struggles this year were largely due to them having the most missed games due to injury in the entire NBA, and that towards the end of the season, they were able to finally start getting rotations that worked and brought them success.
Add in, that they are a strong defensive and 3-pt shooting team. Those two aspects are what win in the playoffs.
Herro is the better player period. I can't believe that this is still an ongoing discussion.
Lol. You initially said “Gabe Vincent is just a straight up better basketball player than Tyler Herro,” and now you’re switching the take.
Because, once again, Vincent is having a terrible game.
But sure. Keep going…
Ever since WithoutBias dropped his usual moronic comment and disguised it as fact.
Heat have lost two at home.
Vincent has went 3/16 1/10 from 3 with 9 total pts, 1 assist and ZERO rebounds. On a -37.
Haha.
Well they’re still down a starter and a 26 mpg, double digit scorer. And they were actually one of the worst (maybe the very worst?) 3 point shooting teams in the NBA this year, and Herro was their best 3 point shooter of rotational players. They just happen to have the right players injured now. It’s amazing what happens to your shooting when the ball actually moves.
I’d take Gabe Vincent 7 days a week if I was a team with aspirations of winning in the Playoffs. But you’re right. Tyler Herro would never have 2 bad games in a row! He’s a mega star!
Oh no! Not two bad games! They lost two games in a row to the best team in the NBA! To drop their winning percentage against the 3 best teams in the NBA plus the Knicks to .591? After having a .535 winning percentage against all teams in the NBA?
Go back to crying about KAT and the TWolves constantly and then claim not to be a TWolves fan. Or cry about Twins management and FO some more. It’s super interesting and everyone really cares about it on a Wisconsin based sports forum. You’re super good at it and entertaining. Clown.
“I was provided the facts and there’s absolutely no argument to be made, so I’ll ask a dumb question instead.”
So Bellichick was intentionally tanking or an idiot.
The results speak for themselves. It’s clear as day.
"I was provided all the facts and there's no argument to be made, so I'll go back to a dumb comparison that's already been addressed".
The problem with the results is that you have decided that there is only one variable and it is responsible for 100% of the results. And the funny thing is, even if it were true, that wouldn't be Herro issue. That would be a coaching issue.
You keep insisting that a guy Spo played "a bright blinking target to attack defensively and a ball stopping, high volume scorer on offense" that was hurting the team for 35 minutes a game for 67 games. I'm just confused how a hall of fame coach couldn't figure that out with 67 games of evidence and even more practice hours when it is so obvious and not even debatable.
Haha your go to anytime someone makes you look like an idiot(always) is to have an irrelevent to the conversation meltdown
You dont know sports, its ok. Not everyone can. Makes it fun to have people like you around.
Why couldn’t Bill figure out Tom was better than Drew in 2000? Bellichick just an idiot.
You really believe every good coach ever has always played their best players every game and never missed on who they were playing?
Fair enough. That’s simply absurd and if you want to close your eyes to what has happened feel free.
The lack of self awareness is beyond incredible here.
Why couldn’t Bill figure out Tom was better than Drew in 2000? Bellichick just an idiot.
You really believe every good coach ever has always played their best players every game and never missed on who they were playing?
In 2000? How do you know Tom was better than Drew that year?It's as if Tyler and Jimmy Eiffel Towered his grandmother.
No. I do believe every hall of fame coach who has had an entire season of actual games plus practices has either gotten it right or the two players were close enough that it was at least debatable.
You don't seem to understand that I don't actually take issue with the idea that the Heat are better with Vincent playing more minutes than Herro. I don't agree but I think it's a perfectly reasonable position to take. It's the instance that this is opinion is a fact that isn't debatable and the heavy use of logical fallacies to defend this position.
I’d take Gabe Vincent 7 days a week if I was a team with aspirations of winning in the Playoffs. But you’re right. Tyler Herro would never have 2 bad games in a row!t He’s a mega star!
This game is awful.
Will we see Herro…or Vincent?
Now Spo randomly puts in Zeller?!?!?!?!
5 pts for the Nuggets in 2 possessions.
Elite coach doing non elite things.
Jimmy doesn’t look like he wants the ball. Give it all you got!!
Jimmy doesn’t look like he wants the ball. Give it all you got!!
C’mon Jimmy, we need JFB!
Why bother even having a review rule?
Wow. Stunned that call wasn't overturned.
Brutal
Jokic was a mid 2nd round pick.
I saw a few places on Twitter the video of Jokic being drafted. ESPN was running a Taco Bell ad as his selection came across the bottom graphic. Incredible.
Also, what a hilarious interview from Jokic, contrast with the jubilation of some of the other stars winning their first title. Man is exhausted and just wants to go hang with his horses.
Such a breath of fresh air compared to the all star on the other Finals team. Mr. "I could care less about getting into the HOF and wouldn't attend my own induction if I did" (thank goodness he only considers himself a Tyler JUCO grad and not MU, unless he's admitting he does care...is he even a Tyler grad? He was only there for one year). Mr. "I'll hold the next one if the Nuggets will let me borrow it." Mr. "I'm such a competitor I'm going to script my meltdown and have ESPN waiting at my house to interview me after it." Jokic is real.
Such a breath of fresh air compared to the all star on the other Finals team. Mr. "I could care less about getting into the HOF and wouldn't attend my own induction if I did" (thank goodness he only considers himself a Tyler JUCO grad and not MU, unless he's admitting he does care...is he even a Tyler grad? He was only there for one year). Mr. "I'll hold the next one if the Nuggets will let me borrow it." Mr. "I'm such a competitor I'm going to script my meltdown and have ESPN waiting at my house to interview me after it." Jokic is real.
I saw a few places on Twitter the video of Jokic being drafted. ESPN was running a Taco Bell ad as his selection came across the bottom graphic. Incredible.
Also, what a hilarious interview from Jokic, contrast with the jubilation of some of the other stars winning their first title. Man is exhausted and just wants to go hang with his horses.
Jimmy needs to find a star like Jokic to latch onto to get a ring. Be nice if he’d put his ego aside and come play with Giannis in Milwaukee. Playing with someone that carried a team to a ring might benefit him.
I said it before. If Durant wants to ever win another title, the best (maybe only) chance is to head to Miami. Jimmy has the attitude and alpha-ness and KD has the shooting ability.
I said it before. If Durant wants to ever win another title, the best (maybe only) chance is to head to Miami. Jimmy has the attitude and alpha-ness and KD has the shooting ability.
Both need a superstar to win a title. Together, close, but no cigar
::)
I said it before. If Durant wants to ever win another title, the best (maybe only) chance is to head to Miami. Jimmy has the attitude and alpha-ness and KD has the shooting ability.
Jimmy would be a perfect compliment to Giannis
Agreed, Giannis playing under coach Spo would get him to the next level.
Trade him for Tyler Herro and Tyler can finally play at Fiserv where he belongs and may have played if not for the Hauser boys
I'm not sure the Bucks would go for just Tyler. Maybe throw Strus in there to get all those DePaul fans up to Milwaukee for games.
Agreed, Giannis playing under coach Spo would get him to the next level.
Heat need to win the Dame sweepstakes imo. Not sure what it would take but I think adding a guard like Dame to Jimmy and Bam would make them the east favorites.
What is your current 9 man rotation with the trifecta and today's rules? I'm thinking:No Wade?
Curry
Jordan
Jokic
Olajuwon
Lebron
Antetokounmpo
Bird
Magic
Durant
:)
What is your current 9 man rotation with the trifecta and today's rules? I'm thinking:
Curry
Jordan
Jokic
Olajuwon
Lebron
Antetokounmpo
Bird
Magic
Durant
:)
Assuming the goal is to put together the best 9-man lineup, and not the 9-best players.
I would swap out Lebron for Pippen. Not because I think Pippen is better, or because I dislike Lebron, but rather to get another elite defender in the lineup that would know their role.
Or keep Lebron, and swap Pippen for Durant.
Might also consider going with Dirk at the 4 to spread the court more. Can bring some elite shooting from the 4 position.
That would allow an offense heavy lineup.
Curry
Jordan
Bird
Nowitzki
Jokic
Run the ball through Jordan/Curry/Jokic, allow Bird and Nowitzki to spread the floor.
When you need more defense swap in Hakeem/Pippen.
I'd also consider swapping out Magic for Oscar Robertson, but can't go wrong with Magic at all.
They probably don't have enough to get Lillard but I think they'll go after Beal.
If those are the best free agent shooting guards, the market's terrible. None of those guys are taking Miami to the "next level."
And I doubt Donte has any issues with living and working in San Francisco.
If those are the best free agent shooting guards, the market's terrible. None of those guys are taking Miami to the "next level."
And I doubt Donte has any issues with living and working in San Francisco.
those are the only "free agents" i could come up with. otherwise, miami would have to swing a trade. who would they be willing to give up to get a lillard or a beal?? i doubt a bunch of draft picks(probably high ones) would do it.
Here's one site's proposal:
Just looking at contract figures and not knowing the details of any no-trade clauses, etc., they would have to give up something like the expiring contracts of Kyle Lowery and Caleb Martin, plus a guy like Nicola Jovic, to get Lillard. They also have a '24 first round pick.
But this is what teams have to do to get multiple star players - trade their depth.
I think teams are going to steer clear of Herro's contract. He's just starting the first of a four year, $120M deal. But then again, who knows?
I think teams are going to steer clear of Herro's contract. He's just starting the first of a four year, $120M deal. But then again, who knows?Well, he's no Gabe Vincent.
I think teams are going to steer clear of Herro's contract. He's just starting the first of a four year, $120M deal. But then again, who knows?
Here's one site's proposal:
Heat-Blazers Damian Lillard trade
Miami Heat Receive: Damian Lillard
Portland Trail Blazers Receive: Tyler Herro, Caleb Martin, Nikola Jovic, Victor Oladipo, No. 18 pick in 2023, 2027 first-round pick, 2029 first-round pick
I'm not trying to go all withoutbias here, but can Jimmy co-exist with another top 20 player? I love the guy, but that crashed and burned in Minnesota and Philadelphia. Both those circumstances have a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what have yous, but my impression from Jimmy is that he thrives in the try-hard, underdog role. After being the guy in Miami for a bunch of years, I'm not sure he would adjust well to bringing Dame in.
If he has another star with the same all in, team mentality.
I don't think he crashed and burned in Philly at all. By all reports he got along with Embiid just fine.
I guess this is where my suspicion comes in. Does Jimmy have the same "all in, team mentality" if there is another leader or if he has to share or even give up the mantle of the "hardest working, grittiest guy on the team"? I think Jimmy and Buzz share a lot of the same core traits, especially in the primacy they have to have in a team's success. Part of me thinks that Jimmy is happiest to be a "Hall of Very Good" type player that would ultimately rather will an underdog team to overachieve as the undisputed leader vs hunt for a championship as the 1A to Dame or Embiid's 1.
I’m not so sure Jimmy would be 1A to Dame. The Heat is unquestionably Jimmy’s team and if Dame is leaving Portland at this point, it’s to chase a ‘ship, not go somewhere else to be the man. I think those two would coexist just fine. Honestly I think a Jimmy/Dame fit makes more sense than a Jimmy/Beal fit
I'm not trying to go all withoutbias here, but can Jimmy co-exist with another top 20 player? I love the guy, but that crashed and burned in Minnesota and Philadelphia. Both those circumstances have a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what have yous, but my impression from Jimmy is that he thrives in the try-hard, underdog role. After being the guy in Miami for a bunch of years, I'm not sure he would adjust well to bringing Dame in.
I think teams are going to steer clear of Herro's contract. He's just starting the first of a four year, $120M deal. But then again, who knows?
Here's one site's proposal:The Heat should throw in their home arena and team plane.
Heat-Blazers Damian Lillard trade
Miami Heat Receive: Damian Lillard
Portland Trail Blazers Receive: Tyler Herro, Caleb Martin, Nikola Jovic, Victor Oladipo, No. 18 pick in 2023, 2027 first-round pick, 2029 first-round pick
Lavine and Beal being shopped. Dame unlikely but there seems to at least be smoke for the first time there. Pels open to trading Zion? Could be a fun week leading up to the Draft.What is Zion worth? Obviously, not the number 1 pick, probably not 2-5. Lottery pick?
3 Billion for the Hornets???
Some here (they don't know ball) are concerned with Herro's contract. Not me, its cheap. As for Zion, run the other way, hey?
What is Zion worth? Obviously, not the number 1 pick, probably not 2-5. Lottery pick?
I thought he was almost a LeBron like "cant miss super star", my how things have changed.
3 Billion for the Hornets???An Excellent Deal for Michael. Don't know what his exact percentage is, but he is probably netting a Cool Billion after taxes.
At least MJ won't go hungry.
The Hausers disagree about Herro's contract. And they damn well know ball.
pretty sure pelican s want zion's money shots on the floor, not off it. he's only played in 114 games accross 4 seasons(328 games)
Remember, Embiid had a lot of health struggles his first few years. We know Williamson is a tremendous talent and incredibly efficient as as scorer. If you were an NBA GM would you take the risk?I would take the risk but not for a top 10 pick. The difference from Embiid is Zion's issues are caused by his choices, weight, not just bad luck. I don't follow his game, other than his amazing physical feats, but could he be an effective 'below the rim' player?
I would take the risk but not for a top 10 pick. The difference from Embiid is Zion's issues are caused by his choices, weight, not just bad luck. I don't follow his game, other than his amazing physical feats, but could he be an effective 'below the rim' player?
I would take the risk but not for a top 10 pick. The difference from Embiid is Zion's issues are caused by his choices, weight, not just bad luck. I don't follow his game, other than his amazing physical feats, but could he be an effective 'below the rim' player?
I’d trade any pick in this year’s draft other than Wemby or MAYBE Scoot for Zion. Depends on my roster makeup when choosing between Scoot and Zion.Can't argue with that thought. But also wouldn't argue with not giving up a top 20 pick for him either.
I’d take Zion over any 2024 pick.
Can't argue with that thought. But also wouldn't argue with not giving up a top 20 pick for him either.
So what exactly are you saying?I'm saying that Zion has the talent to be better than anyone in this years or the past ten years drafts. The major issue is his health and dedication to the game. In the end, I can see a GM betting on him getting his crap together but I can also see a GM saying he's a bust and not worth a decent draft choice since a player's best ability is his availability.
It's not an easy question but there are two choices. How deep is this draft? I'm looking at sone of these names and I'm not sure it's a great slew of players Wemby abd the top few guys.
I'm saying that Zion has the talent to be better than anyone in this years or the past ten years drafts. The major issue is his health and dedication to the game. In the end, I can see a GM betting on him getting his crap together but I can also see a GM saying he's a bust and not worth a decent draft choice since a player's best ability is his availability.
I was asked: If you were the Hornets’ GM, would you take Zion in a trade for the #2 pick?
After my initial “Zion’s always hurt and doesn’t take care of himself” reaction, I said: “You know, I think I would, especially if New Orleans sweetened it a little. The Hornets aren’t any good and haven’t been to the playoffs forever. At least Zion gives them some buzz (pun intended) - and if healthy (big if) he’d be a great wingman for LaMelo. What the hell - let’s do it!”
The Suns unload the contract they were looking to cut, trade one other bench player, don’t give up a single first round pick, and wind up with Bradley Beal?
Huh.
We’ll see. Not a lot of depth there.
They'll flame out (no pun intended) but it's still crazy to think the Wiz didn't even get a 1st round pick.I think the 'no trade clause' impacts the value the Wiz could get.
I think the 'no trade clause' impacts the value the Wiz could get.
We’ll see. Not a lot of depth there.
As for the Durant, Booker, Beal trio? It's not gonna work. They will win a lot of games but three great iso players won't get it done and Ayton will continue to be unhappy. I wonder if they'll unload him?
I remember when Wade got conned ,by Lebron ,into turning down his player option . The theoty being Lebron would resign with Heat . Reality was Lebron. Bolted and Wade ended up getting paid less to go to The Bulls them the cavs and back to the Heat . Final year olayed for peanuts
Moral of the story, in these situation's, exercise your player option
I think the Durant, Harden, Irving trio would have won a lot of games if not for injury luck and Irving's combustibility. The injury factor is still very real for the Suns' trio but that scoring can still win a lot of games. I am dubious they can win it all with their inability to put a team around them
I don’t think a team with three ball dominant players, who combine for way below average defense can win consistently. Lotsa regular season wins, but never any cigars.
I think you’re misremembering. Wade opted out of $41M over two years with the Heat, but then made $35M with them over the next two seasons. That’s before he made $38M over two years with the Bulls before signing a series of small deals with the Heat to round out his career.Yes thats the point. Wade had the absolute right to get paid . He opted out and made $6 million less. Wade also entered into some kind of buyout on his second year in Chicago and again took less so he could go to Cleveland and get kicked to the curb by Lebron there as well.
So it maybe cost him $6M, but didn’t seem to have any bearing on his deal with the Bulls.
Draymond opted out of 27.5 m. Is there really a team that will give him more than that? I don't know the level the salary cap will increase but I wouldn't touch this guy for 30m a year......unless you're a championship team with him? No one is coming to the top of my head
I don't think his goal is to get more money per year, but possibly more money longer term and a chance to finish his career with Curry.
My guess is he is hoping for a 3-year deal worth around $70-75M from the Warriors.
Sure, he could take $27.5M now, then he has to hope of another contract at 34 years old. I think 1-year from now getting a 2-year $40+M contract might be hard, but I think the Warriors would give him a 3-year $70M option.
As it currently stands, of the 4 longest tenured players in the NBA with one team... Steph, Klay and Draymond are 1,2, and 4. The third is Dame. Just crazy
why would someone trade for zion with all the baggage?? or should i say very public baggage?
not to mention his tenure or lack thereof
way way too much maintenance
The good news for the Suns is all 3 are above average defenders.
And let’s not pretend that they Nets wouldn’t have won at least one title, let alone multiple titles, had either Kyrie or Harden not gotten injured. Heck they even would’ve with neither healthy and KD completely carrying them had he had a half size smaller shoe.
They wouldn’t have.
Well, they definitely would have beaten the Bucks. Probably an 80% chance they get by Atlanta too.
Do they beat Phoenix? Not sure. But that was a legit Brooklyn team.
Well, they definitely would have beaten the Bucks. Probably an 80% chance they get by Atlanta too.
Do they beat Phoenix? Not sure. But that was a legit Brooklyn team.
why would someone trade for zion with all the baggage?? or should i say very public baggage?
not to mention his tenure or lack thereof
way way too much maintenance
Brain dead take. The public baggage, you mean him getting embarrassed on twitter for knocking ladies up?
He's not the first NBA player to do this, and the only people wringing their hands about it are people who don't actually care about basketball.
The kid can ball when he's healthy. Treating him like some public pariah is something for weirdos to do.
Yeah Carty, maebea he wiggles hiz worm reel well, hey?
The Association has created this mess with their lucrative contracts. All the while they are competing against themselves for talent. Zion's making sex tapes with broads with ass implants, Herro's porkin' anything that feels good, and the Bucks have prostituted themselves to #34 and anything and everything he desires.
Al was right. To coach in the NBA, you have to be paid $1.00 more than the highest paid player on the team, or you're fooked, aina?
The Association has created this mess with their lucrative contracts. All the while they are competing against themselves for talent. Zion's making sex tapes with broads with ass implants, Herro's porkin' anything that feels good, and the Bucks have prostituted themselves to #34 and anything and everything he desires.
Al was right. To coach in the NBA, you have to be paid $1.00 more than the highest paid player on the team, or you're fooked, aina?
LOL...what? Al was wrong. That's a terrible take. NBA players are actually underpaid with their contracts limited by a CBA.
LOL...what? Al was wrong. That's a terrible take. NBA players are actually underpaid with their contracts limited by a CBA.
The Association has created this mess with their lucrative contracts. All the while they are competing against themselves for talent. Zion's making sex tapes with broads with ass implants, Herro's porkin' anything that feels good, and the Bucks have prostituted themselves to #34 and anything and everything he desires.
Al was right. To coach in the NBA, you have to be paid $1.00 more than the highest paid player on the team, or you're fooked, aina?
Me, too. It helps when they transfer.
Wow, that looks like an incredible trade for the Celtics, who (at least on paper) get taller and younger and more skilled.
They do lose Smart's toughness, and that's no small thing for a team that sometimes appears soft ... but to get Porzingis AND 2 first-rounders for Marcus Smart and a box of rocks sure looks like a steal for Boston.
I'm not sure I view it that way. They are really going to miss Smart's versatility on defense, and while Porzingas can put some points on the board, I am not sure adding yet another dude who likes to bomb away from deep is what Boston needed here. They seem more excited about Derrick White than I would be. It does get them more cap flexibility since Porzingas is in the last year of his deal though.
I'm not sure I view it that way. They are really going to miss Smart's versatility on defense, and while Porzingas can put some points on the board, I am not sure adding yet another dude who likes to bomb away from deep is what Boston needed here. They seem more excited about Derrick White than I would be. It does get them more cap flexibility since Porzingas is in the last year of his deal though.
With Middleton declining his $40MM option, he must feel he is in line for a big payday, despite the injury history. He turns 32 this year - what do you do if you're the Bucks? Re-signing him would probably give them no flexibility going forward, and can they sign both him and Brook?
With Middleton declining his $40MM option, he must feel he is in line for a big payday, despite the injury history. He turns 32 this year - what do you do if you're the Bucks? Re-signing him would probably give them no flexibility going forward, and can they sign both him and Brook?
Smart seemed to be the aggressive drive of the team to the point of causing a little locker room friction. We'll see if the newly carefree Celtics can step up or if they ramp up their disappearing act under pressure. Weird decision imo, like the Sixers getting rid of Jimmy
Bucks shouldn't resign Middleton. They can resign Brook to a short contract, but he's 35 and could fall off a cliff at any point.
Khris is going to get paid by someone, but I don't want a long term contract on a 32 year old that can's stay healthy. Find someone else.
Such as?
I think they'll frontload a deal and run it back, although Jrue's value has to be up there. He's a good player and an awesome guy, but his meltdowns in the playoffs would have me exploring deals there to get younger.
With Middleton declining his $40MM option, he must feel he is in line for a big payday, despite the injury history. He turns 32 this year - what do you do if you're the Bucks? Re-signing him would probably give them no flexibility going forward, and can they sign both him and Brook?
I suspect he resigns at a lower salary for next year so that Lopez can be resigned. That's my hope at least.
Nah, eye'm 'gainst da inmates runnin' da asylum, hey?
And GSW can be rid of CP's contract as soon as next season. Getting the Poole extension off their books is what made this trade so lucrative for the Wizards.
I'm not sure it's automatic Draymond comes back although I would think so. As far as Klay is concerned the truth is he was very mediocre in the playoffs.
Don’t think Paul works at all on this team but Poole was a disaster in the playoffs. Just another guy destined to play for half a dozen teams or so before it’s all said and done. Think GSW just tears it all down sooner than later
I'm not sold on Paul working, but can see it possibly working out.
During the season, another veteran, who can come off the bench and lead the 2nd unit that woefully underperformed last year. His leadership/veteran experience can make that 2nd unit work.
During the playoffs, they could at times go to an offense with Paul/Curry/Klay. Paul has a great midrange game, and it would be open as the opponents refuse to leave Curry/Klay. A counterpunch to the swarm Curry/Klay defense. Now, that lineup can't be the major lineup, but it might be enough of a change of pace option to get them back to the finals.
I'm not sold on Paul working, but can see it possibly working out.
During the season, another veteran, who can come off the bench and lead the 2nd unit that woefully underperformed last year. His leadership/veteran experience can make that 2nd unit work.
During the playoffs, they could at times go to an offense with Paul/Curry/Klay. Paul has a great midrange game, and it would be open as the opponents refuse to leave Curry/Klay. A counterpunch to the swarm Curry/Klay defense. Now, that lineup can't be the major lineup, but it might be enough of a change of pace option to get them back to the finals.
It’ll be fascinating to watch. I just don’t think Paul is a winning player.
Why are you attacking him? Were Baylor, Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Dominique, etc, not winning players?? The guy has had an outstanding career and has always made teams better. Your attack is totally unwarranted. He's an all time great player. Period.
It’s warranted
What a bunch of nonsense. This is RDPB: Ridiculous Diminutive Player Bias.
Why are you attacking him? Were Baylor, Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Dominique, etc, not winning players?? The guy has had an outstanding career and has always made teams better. Your attack is totally unwarranted. He's an all time great player. Period.
Rewatch the last four games of the 2021 Finals and tell Rico he's wrong.
Small players can be losers, too
With Middleton declining his $40MM option, he must feel he is in line for a big payday, despite the injury history. He turns 32 this year - what do you do if you're the Bucks? Re-signing him would probably give them no flexibility going forward, and can they sign both him and Brook?
Sign and peddle hiz ass, hey?
Most of them are.
This draft broadcast has been tough to watch.
Monica McNutt's post-pick interviews have been a bright spot so far though. And I like that Scoot Henderson.
This draft broadcast has been tough to watch.
ESPN’s isn’t bad.
Would that outfit make you pause before selecting Gradey Dick? Is he going to a fortune teller symposium after the draft? WTF?
Petrocelli, did you advise Gradey Dick on his draft night attire, hey?
Solid dude! Say "hello" to him from 4ever, hey?
Okay....now the draft becomes interesting and the OMax watch has begun. Hopefully he goes in the next 12 picks.
Petrocelli, did you advise Gradey Dick on his draft night attire, hey?
Anyone have any idea why Cam Whitmore is dropping so much?
Lakers might be gifted a day 1 ready top 5 player.
I like the kid from UCF.
Wow. A bit surprised with Jaquez.
I think he’ll fit on tremendously there.
Agreed, love it
I’m a big fan of Jaquez. Tough, hard-working, mature … and talented too.
Good pick for Miami. Truth is, at this point of the draft, it’s a bit of blindfold darts
Bucks get 36 from Orlando for a future 2nd and cash considerations.
I’m a big fan of Jaquez. Tough, hard-working, mature … and talented too.I agree with this analysis
Hornets didn't want Scoot because of the fit with Lamelo but take Nick Smith Jr.? Hmm.
So what the quick math on the total number of MU 1st picks? Ty.
Would’ve MUCH rather had Jordan Walsh than Andre Jackson Jr. Hope he proves me wrong, but I don’t see Jackson providing anything to an NBA team. Great athleticism and passing but he has Ben Simmons level shooting and confidence in his shooting.
How long will it take Wemby? Are we looking at complete domination in year 3?
How long will it take Wemby? Are we looking at complete domination in year 3?Here are Wembys stats in French Pro A . A mid level pro league , which has employed Buycks, Luke Fisher and DJO in recent years
Here are Wembys stats in French Pro A . A mid level pro league , which has emplyed Buycks, Luke Fisher and DJO in recent years
https://basketball.eurobasket.com/player/Victor-Wembanyama/524571
I would say give him some time
How long will it take Wemby? Are we looking at complete domination in year 3?
Take him for what? He'll be a yearly All Star from year 3 on, assuming he can stay healthy.
Take him for what? He'll be a yearly All Star from year 3 on, assuming he can stay healthy.
Perhaps I'm putting too much pressure on him.....I was thinking domination.
Whether he is able to be dominated is going to depend a lot on how the game officiates his play and whether he stays healthy.
He is long and lanky and might struggle with the physicality of the game. He really is different than other players, and it is a question mark as to how you call the game around such a player. Do you let defenders be physical? How much contact due you allow him to make when he is defending the rim (does he get into foul trouble)?
It'll be interesting.
My guess is he has a hard time staying healthy. He has some dominant years, but not much longevity. I could see him having a Tracy McGrady type career trajectory.
Wow the Bulls are a disaster. You have to blow that "roster" up immediately and start over.And it literally get worse each day, by choice. Over paid average talent (players and coach) getting older and worse.
I don’t know how to post images on here, but there’s a picture of Wemby with David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Sean Elliott, and Manu. Manu, at 6’6”, looks tiny. And Wemby towers over Robinson, who’s 7’1”.
Came across this list of undrafted signings by NBA team.Thanks!
https://clutchpoints.com/nba-draft-2023-undrafted-free-agent-signings-tracker
Thanks!
How can the 76ers have 4 players signed on two way contracts? I thought the limit was 2
Drew signs Exhibit 10 deal with Bucks. Basically has to prove like Jamal did
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2023/jun/23/gonzagas-drew-timme-goes-undrafted-signs-exhibit-1/