2022-23 NBA Thread

[WhiteTrash]

Westbrook obviously is highly skilled but does he really "fit" anywhere?

The national media told us he was going to the Bulls. The missing piece to the dynasty.

My guess is the Bulls are so unattractive he went to LA for less money.

[4everwarriors]

Meyers Leonard twoo da Bucks on a Ten Dey Kontract...yuk, aina?

[rocket surgeon]

Meyers Leonard twoo da Bucks on a Ten Dey Kontract...yuk, aina?

  i don't remember anything notable about him except the slur.  is he any good?  if lasry is willing to give him a cup of joe, then all must be cool, eyn'a?

[4everwarriors]

Sucks ass, hey?

[JWags85]

If you read more into it, Leonard did the right thing when something like this happens.  He sincerely apologized and has since worked with numerous rabbis and Jewish orgs in Miami, back in Champaign, and elsewhere.  And much of that was well after he got the boot, so it wasn't some immediate saving of face.  Time, effort, and education goes farther than a knee jerk donation.

Some bigotry or hate speech comes from true hate, some comes from ignorance.  The latter can be corrected and educated far easier.  If it was indeed the latter, kudos to him for attempting to make amends and better himself and believe he deserves a second chance

[WhiteTrash]

If you read more into it, Leonard did the right thing when something like this happens.  He sincerely apologized and has since worked with numerous rabbis and Jewish orgs in Miami, back in Champaign, and elsewhere.  And much of that was well after he got the boot, so it wasn't some immediate saving of face.  Time, effort, and education goes farther than a knee jerk donation.

Some bigotry or hate speech comes from true hate, some comes from ignorance.  The latter can be corrected and educated far easier.  If it was indeed the latter, kudos to him for attempting to make amends and better himself and believe he deserves a second chance

Good for you to view this with common sense, clarity and understanding. Unfortunately you stand almost alone in America today. There is good money to be made and power to be had by vilifying people for errors in judgment that could have even occurred decades ago and even run counter to how they live and act.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Good for you to view this with common sense, clarity and understanding. Unfortunately you stand almost alone in America today. There is good money to be made and power to be had by vilifying people for errors in judgment that could have even occurred decades ago and even run counter to how they live and act.

  I don't see many people trashing the Bucks for this move. I actually think Wags' falls into the solid majority here.

[Pakuni]

Good for you to view this with common sense, clarity and understanding. Unfortunately you stand almost alone in America today. There is good money to be made and power to be had by vilifying people for errors in judgment that could have even occurred decades ago and even run counter to how they live and act.

So many people got rich and powerful from posting Josh Hader's old tweets.
And the poor guy has seen his salary grow a mere 2433% in the years since.

[JWags85]

  I don't see many people trashing the Bucks for this move. I actually think Wags' falls into the solid majority here.

I'm as guilty as anyone of falling into the Twitter/social media/internet sentiment is real sentiment, but agreed.  The people with an issue are the outrage junkies who live for this kind of stuff.  The same ones we talked about clutching pearls over Tiger Tampaxgate.

The vast majority of people, even in the Twittersphere, who are angry about this, probably aren't even Bucks fans, much less actual NBA fans.

So many people got rich and powerful from posting Josh Hader's old tweets.
And the poor guy has seen his salary grow a mere 2433% in the years since.

I don't necessarily agree with power, but there is a ton of money to be made in being a talking head who gets worked up about this BS.  But thats a different discussion.

[Pakuni]

I don't necessarily agree with power, but there is a ton of money to be made in being a talking head who gets worked up about this BS.  But thats a different discussion.

Sure, outrage is a cottage industry, but not in the way WhiteTrash suggests. Nobody is making a dime by villifying people like Meyers Leonard.
And (I aim this at WhiteTrash, not you) can we stop dismissing people being racist as "an error in judgement."

[WhiteTrash]

Sure, outrage is a cottage industry, but not in the way WhiteTrash suggests. Nobody is making a dime by villifying people like Meyers Leonard.
And (I aim this at WhiteTrash, not you) can we stop dismissing people being racist as "an error in judgement."

So do we shoot or burn at the stake everyone who made, or laughed at, a racial joke as teenagers? I personally think shooting is better for the environment, but I'll defer to you since you, as someone who can judge everyone's moral character, are smarter and wiser then me.

And, you have convinced me that Leonard is a racist. Thank you for helping me see the light.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So do we shoot or burn at the stake everyone who made, or laughed at, a racial joke as teenagers? I personally think shooting is better for the environment, but I'll defer to you since you, as someone who can judge everyone's moral character, are smarter and wiser then me.

And, you have convinced me that Leonard is a racist. Thank you for helping me see the light.

He never said Meyers was racist. And he wasn't a teenager.

But outrage away...

[Pakuni]

So do we shoot or burn at the stake everyone who made, or laughed at, a racial joke as teenagers? I personally think shooting is better for the environment, but I'll defer to you since you, as someone who can judge everyone's moral character, are smarter and wiser then me.

And, you have convinced me that Leonard is a racist. Thank you for helping me see the light.

Reductio ad absurdum x1000

[WhiteTrash]

He never said Meyers was racist. And he wasn't a teenager.

But outrage away...

I believe he was calling Meyers a racist.
I never said he was a teenager.

My original point, which was I was told is incorrect, was I think people can have racist feeling or ideas but can grow and mature to be accepting of all people and can look back and identify that they made an error in judgment as it relates to people of a different race.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I believe he was calling Meyers a racist.
I never said he was a teenager.

My original point, which was I was told is incorrect, was I think people can have racist feeling or ideas but can grow and mature to be accepting of all people and can look back and identify that they made an error in judgment as it relates to people of a different race.

Again, you're the only one outraged here. Everyone seems to be willing to give Meyers a break. Very much contrary to your original point that Wags "stands alone."

[WhiteTrash]

  I don't see many people trashing the Bucks for this move. I actually think Wags' falls into the solid majority here.

Well I hope you are right and I'm happy to be wrong in my statement. I could definitely being falling into the mass media trap of framing everything a crisis, everyone a victim, racist, sexist, etc. 

[WhiteTrash]

Again, you're the only one outraged here. Everyone seems to be willing to give Meyers a break. Very much contrary to your original point that Wags "stands alone."

How should I read the statement "And (I aim this at WhiteTrash, not you) can we stop dismissing people being racist as "an error in judgement."?

I understand it to mean I am downplaying racists like Meyers (I presume him since he is the topic at hand) as simply having an error in judgment and I don't recognize him as an evil racist.

I don't know if the man is a racist, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I guess that makes me a bad guy for allowing someone to repent and grow from their sins.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

How should I read the statement "And (I aim this at WhiteTrash, not you) can we stop dismissing people being racist as "an error in judgement."?

I understand it to mean I am downplaying racists like Meyers (I presume him since he is the topic at hand) as simply having an error in judgment and I don't recognize him as an evil racist.

I don't know if the man is a racist, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I guess that makes me a bad guy for allowing someone to repent and grow from their sins.

Again Pakuni said "being racist."  IOW saying or doing racist things, which Meyers clearly did.

He's not claiming holds racist ideology and irredeemable. Because clearly he redeemed his comments.

[WhiteTrash]

Again Pakuni said "being racist."  IOW saying or doing racist things, which Meyers clearly did.

He's not claiming holds racist ideology and irredeemable. Because clearly he redeemed his comments.

Fair enough. Maybe we are closer in thought than I perceived. To be clear on my position; 'saying or doing racist things' in my book are errors in judgment, major errors in judgment, that people should be held accountable for. In no way, shape or form was being dismissive of his racist actions.

[JWags85]

Again Pakuni said "being racist."  IOW saying or doing racist things, which Meyers clearly did.

He's not claiming holds racist ideology and irredeemable. Because clearly he redeemed his comments.

Being racist/saying racist things versus "being a racist" is a distinction that plenty of people miss.  But again, the majority of those people are the aforementioned outrage vultures who just key in on that sort of stuff and get off on blanket labels.  They are unserious individuals

[Pakuni]

Again Pakuni said "being racist."  IOW saying or doing racist things, which Meyers clearly did.

He's not claiming holds racist ideology and irredeemable. Because clearly he redeemed his comments.

Correct.
What Leonard did was racist or, to be more accurate, anti-Semitic. Does that make him a racist or anti-Semitic person? I don't know. I'd have no way of making that call based on this one utterance.

Regardless, no one here (or anywhere else I'm seeing) is villifying Leonard today. Heck, Deadspin - not exactly a bastion of anti-wokeness - wrote this story below about how he deserves another chance.

https://deadspin.com/nba-kyrie-irving-meyers-leonard-antisemitism-bucks-1850142399

[martyconlonontherun]

Meyers did a racist action, but IMHO it wasn't something that directly harmed anyone. I thought the outrage at the time was appropriate but he went through both a punishment and self-redemption. I think he learned his lesson.

In regards of being a fan and being able to say "I dont know if I can cheer for the team with him on it", it ranks pretty low compared to guys who will be wearing jerseys next year: Brandon Miller (not-quite accessory to murder), Miles Bridges (DV), Jaxton Hayes (DV), ...............Booknight (serious DUI)................Kyrie (similar to leonard but unapologetic)........................................James Harden (No rational reasons, just don't like him)..Leonard

[Spotcheck Billy]

.

[JWags85]

Ive spoken about it before, but Ive never seen a better and more impressive 180 in perception over a career than JJ Reddick.  Hated at Duke, bled into the NBA, respected and chill as a locker room guy later in his career, now post-NBA he's my favorite NBA talking head.  Insightful, balanced, unafraid to go after dumb tropes and perceptions.  He makes First Take worth watching.  He and Stephen A have an amazing song and dance cause he plays straight man to SAS but SAS also clearly respects him and lets him cook.

However, my favorite appearances are definitely when he absolutely rag dolls Russo and his "you had to be there" biased terrible old NBA takes.  The mix of exasperation, frustration, and then cold hard well thought out arguments are great TV.  I saw this reposted this morning which reminded me...

https://twitter.com/SplashBrosMuse/status/1625927390257106944

Fun fact, Curry who "lives at the line" averages 4.3 FTA per game for his career, 5.4 for the playoffs.  Larry Bird averaged 5.0 and 6.2.  Just perfect


Also, ESPN is just a joke.  Now projecting Bronny James as a top 10 pick next year.  Ahead of Noah Clowney who is basically averaging a double double as a freshman in the SEC on a top 3 team.  Ahead of Bufkin from Michigan who is averaging 13 as a sophomore but averaging over his last 7 games on 55% 3P shooting against multiple top 25 opponents.  Above numerous other top 15 recruits from his own class....sweet clickbait.  I shouldn't be surprised I guess.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

A legit argument could be made that if Bird played in this era, that he would have developed into one of the greatest three point shooters in NBA history. But he didn't play in this era so it's all just speculation. But in every single metric, Curry is a better distance shooter than Bird.  As is Ray Allen.  As is Kyle Korver.  As is Klay Thompson.