2022-23 NBA Thread

[MuggsyB]

This is just straight up, objectively incorrect.

True, but you can make an argument that Miami is better without Herro when you look at the combined contributions of those that have gotten his minutes.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Gabe Vincent isn't a better basketball player than Tyler Herro. That's just nonsense.

He's definitely better than Herro. A significantly better defender, takes & makes smart shots, keeps the offense flowing. Herro is a ball stopper, volume shooter, and a sieve on D. I hope they trade him this off-season and use the $ to pay Vincent+ another role player

[MuggsyB]

He's definitely better than Herro. A significantly better defender, takes & makes smart shots, keeps the offense flowing. Herro is a ball stopper, volume shooter, and a sieve on D. I hope they trade him this off-season and use the $ to pay Vincent+ another role player

Will anyone want Herro's contract?

[The Sultan]

Ah recency bias is so funny....

Anyway there are real questions about Herro's contract. But his numbers are better than Vincent's consistently throughout their careers. 

[MuggsyB]

Ah recency bias is so funny....

Anyway there are real questions about Herro's contract. But his numbers are better than Vincent's consistently throughout their careers.

Vincent is not better than Herro.   I think the point everyone is trying to make for this Heat team is addition by subtraction.   The change in the rotation with Vincent starting has been a net positive.  If Herro was playing you don't get the same contributions in the playoffs from Vincent, Martin, and Robinson. 

[The Sultan]

Vincent is not better than Herro.   I think the point everyone is trying to make for this Heat team is addition by subtraction.   The change in the rotation with Vincent starting has been a net positive.  If Herro was playing you don't get the same contributions in the playoffs from Vincent, Martin, and Robinson. 

Replacing a better player with a worse player is not "addition by subtraction."  At best your assertion in the last sentence is unproveable.  At worst, and pretty much where I fall, is that it's nonsense.

[MuggsyB]

Replacing a better player with a worse player is not "addition by subtraction."  At best your assertion in the last sentence is unproveable.  At worst, and pretty much where I fall, is that it's nonsense.

Can a better player be a worse teammate Fluffy?  Look at what the Heat are doing without him.  They don't beat Boston without Martin for starters.  You're not looking at the full picture, basketball isn't simply about offensive stats or what individual is better offensively.  The minutes other players on the Heat are getting is a direct result of Herro's absence.  To suggest that you cannot have a better team when you lose a 20ppg scorer is false.  This isn't 5th grade recess. 

[The Sultan]

Can a better player be a worse teammate Fluffy?  Look at what the Heat are doing without him.  They don't beat Boston without Martin for starters.  You're not looking at the full picture, basketball isn't simply about offensive stats or what individual is better offensively.  The minutes other players on the Heat are getting is a direct result of Herro's absence.  To suggest that you cannot have a better team when you lose a 20ppg scorer is false.  This isn't 5th grade recess. 

It's also not as simple as "Gosh look how much better they are playing now! Clearly its addition by subtraction."  But simple people seek simple answers...

[withoutbias]

The Heat were 44-38 playing every team in the NBA throughout the regular season.  They lost game 1 of the play in games and were 4 hot streak Strus minutes away from losing to the Bulls and missing the Playoffs.

Herro then played one half of Playoff basketball for the Heat.  Since then they've played 5 games against the Bucks, 6 against the Knicks, 7 against the Celtics, and 2 against the Heat.  So 14 games against the 3 best teams in the NBA and 6 against a solid Knicks team.  They're 13-7 against those teams.

You're sticking your head further and further into the sand if you can't see the Heat are a much better team without their ball stopping, high volume scoring, zero defending guard available.

[21Jumpstreet]

These guys are pros and have stepped in (and maybe up) with the absence of Herro. Perhaps with Herro the Heat have an even better playoff run, perhaps not. What I will say is that often times when a star or focal point of a team is out the other players move the ball better, trust more, work a little more getting their chance which can lead to wins and the thought that the team is better. I'm not sure who is better between Herro and Vincent, but what I do know is that the non-stars have proven to be invaluable in this series. Sometimes the team is better when certain pieces fit together flawlessly, one player can do what they do best knowing the others are filling a gap or role. That doesn't mean a specific player that filled in or is out is better or worse, just a different make up and match up.

[The Sultan]

Could it be argued that Herro has been given an outsized role during the year?  Sure.

But they started cold and underperformed all year. Is that all on Herro? Nope. I would have never given him that contract, but he adds value to the team. Of course they miss him.

[PGsHeroes32]

The Heat were 44-38 playing every team in the NBA throughout the regular season.  They lost game 1 of the play in games and were 4 hot streak Strus minutes away from losing to the Bulls and missing the Playoffs.

Herro then played one half of Playoff basketball for the Heat.  Since then they've played 5 games against the Bucks, 6 against the Knicks, 7 against the Celtics, and 2 against the Heat.  So 14 games against the 3 best teams in the NBA and 6 against a solid Knicks team.  They're 13-7 against those teams.

You're sticking your head further and further into the sand if you can't see the Heat are a much better team without their ball stopping, high volume scoring, zero defending guard available.

Herro has a better FGs, 3 pts %. free throw% and Efg% than Vincent. Their assist/TO per game identical. Herro much more impactful on the D glass.

[forgetful]

The Heat were 44-38 playing every team in the NBA throughout the regular season.  They lost game 1 of the play in games and were 4 hot streak Strus minutes away from losing to the Bulls and missing the Playoffs.

NBA playoffs are a crapshoot.

[Scoop Snoop]

These guys are pros and have stepped in (and maybe up) with the absence of Herro. Perhaps with Herro the Heat have an even better playoff run, perhaps not. What I will say is that often times when a star or focal point of a team is out the other players move the ball better, trust more, work a little more getting their chance which can lead to wins and the thought that the team is better. I'm not sure who is better between Herro and Vincent, but what I do know is that the non-stars have proven to be invaluable in this series. Sometimes the team is better when certain pieces fit together flawlessly, one player can do what they do best knowing the others are filling a gap or role. That doesn't mean a specific player that filled in or is out is better or worse, just a different make up and match up.

Rational, balanced take. Stop it! You do not belong here in the middle of this fascinating pissing contest.

[MU82]

Herro isn't playing tonight and, according to The Athletic, questions remain about his fitness to play at all in a high-energy championship series that could include 2 more games in Denver.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Replacing a better player with a worse player is not "addition by subtraction."  At best your assertion in the last sentence is unproveable.  At worst, and pretty much where I fall, is that it's nonsense.

Defense & team chemistry matter

[MuggsyB]

I'm calling my shot.  The winner of tonight's game wins the series. 

[PGsHeroes32]

Silver made the call after the 1st quarter.

The league wants Denver to win.

3 egregious calls on Vincent alone.

[MuggsyB]

Silver made the call after the 1st quarter.

The league wants Denver to win.

3 egregious calls on Vincent alone.

Two of them were were absolutely terrible. 

[tower912]

Miami missed too many open shots in the first half.

[PGsHeroes32]

Miami missed too many open shots in the first half.

They did.

Shot more like game 1 Heat. Good news is they got a lot of good looks.

[MuggsyB]

Miami missed too many open shots in the first half.

They're still in pretty good position.  Murray hasn't sat a minute.  Denver is getting nothing offensively from Porter, Gordon, or KCP. 

[21Jumpstreet]

Jimmy sleepwalking on D, gotta start making shots again. It's early!

[MuggsyB]

Jimmy sleepwalking on D, gotta start making shots again. It's early!

Not a good start to the 3rd for Miami.  Get Bam involved and insert Caleb Martin. 

[BM1090]

Silver made the call after the 1st quarter.

The league wants Denver to win.

3 egregious calls on Vincent alone.

I don't think the league really cares. If they did, it wouldn't be Denver vs. Miami.