MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: wadesworld on January 16, 2019, 09:45:43 AM
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Sam comes in as a somewhat scrawny 6'8" freshman and immediately is throwing his body around against must bigger, stronger power forwards (and sometimes centers) in the Big East while being a mostly catch-and-shoot lights out perimeter shooter.
Sophomore year he bulks up but continues to bang in the post defensively while diversifying his game a bit more, adding some face up post game and his rebounding progresses well.
Joey comes in as a freshman and immediately is asked to guard First Team All Conference bigs like Wade from KState and Govan from Georgetown and has an all around skillset that you just don't see from 6'9" dudes very often (though he does need to hit the weight room, which, in my opinion, is where his turnovers come from, just getting bumped off the ball rather than not having a good handle).
And then Sam says, "Alright, you need me to play second fiddle to our All American Markus and just do a bit of everything and get you 14, 7, and 4? Sure. Oh, you need me to play point guard now? And score 30? Got you coach."
Just a family of winners. Not much they can't do on a basketball court, and nothing they won't do to simply get a win. Is the sister the youngest? Does she play basketball? If so, get her a scholarship on the ladies team, even if she isn't great. She's a Hauser, I'm confident she'd find a way to make the team better.
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Shoutout to Bo Ryan for banging on the recruiting trail instead of well, recruiting.
Thanks for Sam and Joey, Bo!
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Shoutout to Bo Ryan for banging on the recruiting trail instead of well, recruiting.
Thanks for Sam and Joey, Bo!
Amen. But pretty sure Greg Gard and Badger Nation don't share our delight!!!
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Hauser's=winners...they are real deal. Becoming bigger fans of the these two on a daily basis. They will go down as a couple of my all time favorite players before they are done.
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I was getting my kicks on Buckyville after their loss Monday, and some were saying the future was still bright with the program! Even with Happ leaving, they could be better in the long run.
But my favorite: "Would you want to coach against Reuvers and Davison as seniors?"
Uh yeah?
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Shoutout to Bo Ryan for banging on the recruiting trail instead of well, recruiting.
Thanks for Sam and Joey, Bo!
This. Sam wanted to be a Badger which he has stated. Thank God Ryan didn’t want Sam, same as Bennet didn’t go after Diener.
Go Warriors
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Sam comes in as a somewhat scrawny 6'8" freshman and immediately is throwing his body around against must bigger, stronger power forwards (and sometimes centers) in the Big East while being a mostly catch-and-shoot lights out perimeter shooter.
Sophomore year he bulks up but continues to bang in the post defensively while diversifying his game a bit more, adding some face up post game and his rebounding progresses well.
Joey comes in as a freshman and immediately is asked to guard First Team All Conference bigs like Wade from KState and Govan from Georgetown and has an all around skillset that you just don't see from 6'9" dudes very often (though he does need to hit the weight room, which, in my opinion, is where his turnovers come from, just getting bumped off the ball rather than not having a good handle).
And then Sam says, "Alright, you need me to play second fiddle to our All American Markus and just do a bit of everything and get you 14, 7, and 4? Sure. Oh, you need me to play point guard now? And score 30? Got you coach."
Just a family of winners. Not much they can't do on a basketball court, and nothing they won't do to simply get a win. Is the sister the youngest? Does she play basketball? If so, get her a scholarship on the ladies team, even if she isn't great. She's a Hauser, I'm confident she'd find a way to make the team better.
Love what you said. We are so lucky to have the Hausers play for Marquette.
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Great thread. Seem like great kids, leave it all out there on the court, do anything they are asked to do, are awesome shooters and all around players.
Those kids have had success growing up, were really well coached, and keep working hard to make sure they continually get better. Good genes and come from good role models.
Perfect for Marquette, everything the university and team needs. Love to see it
Forgot to mention- I think that Sams improved offensive game for the remainder of the season will be one of the biggest reasons this squad continues on an upward trajectory and has an overall successful season.
His current averages of 14,4ppg on 45% from the field with 38% from 3 (ppg skyrocketed after last night, I think it was around 12,5 before) I think will all increase to over 15ppg, 47% from the field and 41-43% from 3. All Marquette’s reach equilibrium
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Are there any more Hausers in the pipeline?
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Are there any more Hausers in the pipeline?
Apparently they have a sister, because I saw a tweet show up in my timeline from a Nicki Hauser talking about how much pub her grandparents were getting at the Marquette game. But it looks like she's already out of college, having played at Stevens Point in basketball, softball, and volleyball.
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Bring the Hauser's Mom, Dad, Grandma, and Grandpa (both sides) to all the games remaining. Students should bring their parents along too, if tickets are available.
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This. Sam wanted to be a Badger which he has stated. Thank God Ryan didn’t want Sam, same as Bennet didn’t go after Diener.
Go Warriors
Next time Sam plays UW he should come out in a, UW-not uniform.
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Have very much enjoyed watching the Hausers, and look forward to both playing even better the second half of the season.
Sam looks rejuvenated to me -- I thought so even before his turn as PG/30-pt scorer -- and Joey is just going to keep getting better and better.
What I really like is how perfectly they complement guys like Markus, Theo, Sacar and Morrow.
I love the guys Wojo has brought into the program, and I thank Bo for ushering in the beginning of the end for F%ckytown by rejecting Sam.
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plus a real high hoops IQ.
Wojo said during Sam's freshman year, Wojo would be talking in the huddle, times when he'd pause looking for the correct words, and Sam would finish the sentence.
And Wojo would nod and say, "Exactly".
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Have very much enjoyed watching the Hausers, and look forward to both playing even better the second half of the season.
Sam looks rejuvenated to me -- I thought so even before his turn as PG/30-pt scorer -- and Joey is just going to keep getting better and better.
What I really like is how perfectly they complement guys like Markus, Theo, Sacar and Morrow.
I love the guys Wojo has brought into the program, and I thank Bo for ushering in the beginning of the end for F%ckytown by rejecting Sam.
Roster construction is certainly Wojo's best attribute to this point. Excellent short/medium/long term planning with a really good feel for program fit.
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Wojo has said on more than one occasion that Sam is about one thing and one thing only.
Winning.
He said it again after Gtown game. He said Sam wasn’t going to let them lose and he strapped this team on his back and carried them to a win.
We are lucky to have him.
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plus a real high hoops IQ.
Wojo said during Sam's freshman year, Wojo would be talking in the huddle, times when he'd pause looking for the correct words, and Sam would finish the sentence.
And Wojo would nod and say, "Exactly".
Haven't you watched the "Inside the Huddle" segments? Wojo repeats everything, so Sam is just reciting what Wojo said in his last sentence.
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Great kids, great family, great players.
Can't ask for anything more.
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Haven't you watched the "Inside the Huddle" segments? Wojo repeats everything, so Sam is just reciting what Wojo said in his last sentence.
The MD in charge of continuing education at my organization wears a T-shirt that says "Repetition is the key to adult learning".
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Repetition is the key to adult learning.
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Loved Sam's quote in Ben Steele's JS game recap:
"I've done it before," Hauser said. "Nothing I am not accustomed to. With Markus and Ed being out, there was a lot of next-man-up mentality for our whole team."
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Repetition is the key to adult learning.
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Repetition is the key to adult learning.
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Sam has been my favorite player since he showed up. Smart player, rarely takes a bad shot, plays good position D, just does every thing right. Joey has all the same attributes (to a slightly lesser degree, IMO) and has a little more size and maybe a little more quickness. Very happy to have them both.
Oh, and Repetition is the key to adult learning.
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On AM-920 this morning they were talking about Gard's job security, and the Hausers' recruitment came up. This guy claimed that Gard liked Sam ALOT but they only had one scholarship left and they were targeting a point guard. Then Trice committed (apparently late in the recruiting season) so there was no room for Sam. Then when it came to Joey, he was tied at the hip to Sam so it was a completely uphill battle for UW-M. Then, he started on about how it was common knowledge five years ago that Saint Bo was considering retirement and Sam would have some uncertainty about whether Bo would still be there in five years.
I wish he had repeated it so I could have recounted it word for word....
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Sam makes his debut on Givony's newly updated top 100 at 95. #24 pf. No mention of any others. Puts in perspective how far these guys are away from the league despite being great college players.
http://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable/_/position/ovr
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So what are the differences between Sam and Joey....more the same than different for sure. Joey bigger and I think will be a bit more aggressive as a Junior. He will be "the man" whereas Sam defers to Markus a bit. They are both a bit too gentlemanly for the NBA so that will have to change over time but its a great attribute.
In general I feel like Joey takes more initiative as a Freshman than Sam did...hard to say. He has a big brother showing the way so that helps.
I think if Markus leaves it will be tough for Marquette but good for Sam. We will see more of what we saw the other night. In any case Sam is on the road to the NBA.
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On AM-920 this morning they were talking about Gard's job security, and the Hausers' recruitment came up. This guy claimed that Gard liked Sam ALOT but they only had one scholarship left and they were targeting a point guard. Then Trice committed (apparently late in the recruiting season) so there was no room for Sam. Then when it came to Joey, he was tied at the hip to Sam so it was a completely uphill battle for UW-M. Then, he started on about how it was common knowledge five years ago that Saint Bo was considering retirement and Sam would have some uncertainty about whether Bo would still be there in five years.
I wish he had repeated it so I could have recounted it word for word....
That's kinda true but not quite. Yeah UW was recruiting point guards for their one scholarship opening, but Trice committed almost a full year after Sam did. Trice was a fall back because they struck out on all of their other targets.
Now Sam was a late bloomer. Marquette was his first major offer and it was after his sophomore year. Prior to that, his offers were from the likes of UNI and Drake. After his junior year, he got the offers from the likes of UVa and ISU - but still nothing from UW. And when he committed the May before his senior year, some of the Buckyville types were *still* saying that Wojo was only taking him to get Joey.
Well then he became Mr. Basketball as a senior and the rest is history. Recruiting mistakes happen all of the time. (See Tyrese Haliburton) However I don't know if one mistake could be more pivotal to two programs than UW not recruiting Sam Hauser. Not just because they didn't get the best player in the state. And not just because it put them behind the 8-ball with his brother. But because it really changed the tenor for in-state recruiting.
We will see, but Gard's recruiting isn't really all that much to write home about. And I don't think he is nearly the coach that Bo was - and for as much as we like to rag on the guy, Bo was an incredible coach from a player development standpoint.
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On AM-920 this morning they were talking about Gard's job security, and the Hausers' recruitment came up. This guy claimed that Gard liked Sam ALOT but they only had one scholarship left and they were targeting a point guard. Then Trice committed (apparently late in the recruiting season) so there was no room for Sam. Then when it came to Joey, he was tied at the hip to Sam so it was a completely uphill battle for UW-M. Then, he started on about how it was common knowledge five years ago that Saint Bo was considering retirement and Sam would have some uncertainty about whether Bo would still be there in five years.
I wish he had repeated it so I could have recounted it word for word....
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I heard that too, but didn’t think anything was different than how I remembered it. I think the only thing not mentioned was I believe the initial recruit backed out and Trice was a late signing after Sam decided. They also ended up having an open spot anyways.
The summer before he retired, I thought Bo made a comment that this was his last year, and then came out and said he may still coach another 5. It was a weird time in their recruiting with the uncertainty. Either way, it’s worked out great for MU.
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Great kids, great family, great players.
Can't ask for anything more.
I got to meet the family (parents and grandparents) in NYC. They are outstanding. Very nice. Mom strikes me as someone the kids would not want to disappoint. She is really nice, but you could see that there is a no nonsense side to her.
It was interesting to see a stark contrast between the demeanor of the MU players and the Louisville players that week. Louisville players had their pants down below their butts. Not acknowledging anyone.
MU players always well dressed. Saying hi to almost everyone, regardless of who they were.
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Sam makes his debut on Givony's newly updated top 100 at 95. #24 pf. No mention of any others. Puts in perspective how far these guys are away from the league despite being great college players.
http://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable/_/position/ovr
LOL @ Ky Bowman on the list but no Markus
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I heard that too, but didn’t think anything was different than how I remembered it. I think the only thing not mentioned was I believe the initial recruit backed out and Trice was a late signing after Sam decided. They also ended up having an open spot anyways.
Nobody backed out. They were going after Zavier Simpson who ended up at Michigan, and Payton Pritchard who ended up at Oregon after committing and decommitting from Oklahoma.
And yeah the ironic thing is that they could have taken Sam AND had a spot open with Riley Dearring transferred mid-year. (That's how they ended up with a two-person class with Trice and Aleem Ford.)
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yeah the UW fans boys were convinced that Simpson was going to UW........might have used the "silent verbal" thing that they love so much....... ;D
That was when the hardcore guys were using the "elite" term when talking about their program.........comparing themselves to Duke, Kansas and Kentucky IIRC......
Don't think they are doing that anymore.......
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Nobody backed out. They were going after Zavier Simpson who ended up at Michigan, and Payton Pritchard who ended up at Oregon after committing and decommitting from Oklahoma.
And yeah the ironic thing is that they could have taken Sam AND had a spot open with Riley Dearring transferred mid-year. (That's how they ended up with a two-person class with Trice and Aleem Ford.)
Don't forget, Andy Van Vliet committed in April 2015. Sam committed to MU in May of 2015.
Bo was slow to offer Sam even when there were two spots available.
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Don't forget, Andy Van Vliet committed in April 2015. Sam committed to MU in May of 2015.
Bo was slow to offer Sam even when there were two spots available.
Hahahahahaha!! I didn't know or remember that timeline but it's hilarious.
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yeah the UW fans boys were convinced that Simpson was going to UW........might have used the "silent verbal" thing that they love so much....... ;D
That was when the hardcore guys were using the "elite" term when talking about their program.........comparing themselves to Duke, Kansas and Kentucky IIRC......
Don't think they are doing that anymore.......
Now UW fans are convinced that once they fire Gard that Tony Bennett will jump at the chance to coach for them. Maybe they're right, but Bennett is killing it at a major school in a better conference right now.
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Nobody backed out. They were going after Zavier Simpson who ended up at Michigan, and Payton Pritchard who ended up at Oregon after committing and decommitting from Oklahoma.
And yeah the ironic thing is that they could have taken Sam AND had a spot open with Riley Dearring transferred mid-year. (That's how they ended up with a two-person class with Trice and Aleem Ford.)
That’s right. Thanks for the correction. This is a nice example of why Wojo would not always fill that 13th spot just to sign a guy, but rather only use it if he felt like the player could likely contribute.
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LOL @ Ky Bowman on the list but no Markus
2 inches makes all the difference.
*pause*
(http://media1.tenor.com/images/9867b1fa3ac337972f761e313a177609/tenor.gif?itemid=4084628)
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They are both a bit too gentlemanly for the NBA so that will have to change over time but its a great attribute.
I seem to recall more than one time a ref walking up to talk to Sam and the guy guarding him. Once in the last game. He might "talk" just with a quieter voice. Maybe he isn't as saintly as he appears. I mean that in a good way.
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Don't forget, Andy Van Vliet committed in April 2015. Sam committed to MU in May of 2015.
Bo was slow to offer Sam even when there were two spots available.
Oh my god I forgot about that. Hilarious.
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I got to meet the family (parents and grandparents) in NYC. They are outstanding. Very nice. Mom strikes me as someone the kids would not want to disappoint. She is really nice, but you could see that there is a no nonsense side to her.
It was interesting to see a stark contrast between the demeanor of the MU players and the Louisville players that week. Louisville players had their pants down below their butts. Not acknowledging anyone.
MU players always well dressed. Saying hi to almost everyone, regardless of who they were.
OMG
Were they wearing hats indoors as well? Or had tattoos?
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OMG
Were they wearing hats indoors as well? Or had tattoos?
Yeah that sounds a lot like the typical UW fan talking about Buzz era MU players.
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My boss (UW grad) called them thugs. He still jokes about Theo's hair: How much time does that take everyday?
I told him since its in braids, probably less time than his own buzzcut, besides, if your on national TV wouldn't you want to look good if you could?
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My boss (UW grad) called them thugs. He still jokes about Theo's hair: How much time does that take everyday?
I told him since its in braids, probably less time than his own buzzcut, besides, if your on national TV wouldn't you want to look good if you could?
Furthering our defense, it does take longer to prepare for a game when you have to wear a cup.
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My boss (UW grad) called them thugs. He still jokes about Theo's hair: How much time does that take everyday?
I told him since its in braids, probably less time than his own buzzcut, besides, if your on national TV wouldn't you want to look good if you could?
wait, he called this years Marquette team thugs? that is a stretch and a half
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My boss (UW grad) called them thugs. He still jokes about Theo's hair: How much time does that take everyday?
I told him since its in braids, probably less time than his own buzzcut, besides, if your on national TV wouldn't you want to look good if you could?
My BIL (a Tennessee grad) calls Marquette "A couple of albinos and Sideshow Bob".
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My BIL (a Tennessee grad) calls Marquette "A couple of albinos and Sideshow Bob".
I mean, he isn't necessarily incorrect.
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My BIL (a Tennessee grad) calls Marquette "A couple of albinos and Sideshow Bob".
Wait--we got Robin Lopez?
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This. Sam wanted to be a Badger which he has stated. Thank God Ryan didn’t want Sam, same as Bennet didn’t go after Diener.
Go Warriors
When did he say this? I have a hard time believing Ryan didn’t go after him. 6’8 white kid from WI with a 83 national rank?
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Saw Sam & Joey, as junior and frosh, playing for SPASH in Mark Miller’s WBY tourney at Concordia University. They were very good that afternoon showing much of what we see now. Their skills were already very well apparent at that time. Now we see physical growth and development on top of that. PS, after that game went home and saw our Warriors get crunched by an awful DePaul team.
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When did he say this? I have a hard time believing Ryan didn’t go after him. 6’8 white kid from WI with a 83 national rank?
The legend repeated by Bucky fans is that Ryan did want Hauser but was holding the last scholarship for a PG. Ryan told Sam that a scholarship would open up for him eventually but he couldn't offer him one now because Bucky doesn't do overcommitments, they are too good for that.
Honestly, I think it was just a recruiting miss by Ryan. It happens, even to good coaches.
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Look at Sammy's picture on the SOTG... could he even have better form on his shot?
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Shoutout to Bo Ryan for banging on the recruiting trail instead of well, recruiting.
Thanks for Sam and Joey, Bo!
#SAVAGE :P
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2 inches makes all the difference.
*pause*
Ha I know this is just a joke, but 5'11" Tremont Waters is also on the list... he's significantly older and not nearly as good as Markus! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
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Ha I know this is just a joke, but 5'11" Tremont Waters is also on the list... he's significantly older and not nearly as good as Markus! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
Sometimes certain guys project better at the next level then other guys. Tons of examples of excellent college players who don't make it at the next level.......and good to mediocre guys who do.
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Sometimes certain guys project better at the next level then other guys. Tons of examples of excellent college players who don't make it at the next level.......and good to mediocre guys who do.
Scottie Reynolds and Dee Brown vs. Dwight Buycks and Abdel Nader
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Sam makes his debut on Givony's newly updated top 100 at 95. #24 pf. No mention of any others. Puts in perspective how far these guys are away from the league draft despite being great college players.
FIFY
Guys like Markus and Sam will likely get summer league invites, and have an opportunity to catch on with a team if they work out. Sometimes its better than being drafted late in the second round.
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Don't forget, Andy Van Vliet committed in April 2015. Sam committed to MU in May of 2015.
Bo was slow to offer Sam even when there were two spots available.
van Vliet committed on 5/11/15, 4 days before Sam announced his choice.
After losing out on Diamond Stone, the Badgers added van Vliet to the 2015 class which contained the likes of Alex Illikainen, Brevin Pritzl, Khalil Iverson and Charlie Thomas.
I don't think that 5-some could compete in the Horizon League.
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van Vliet committed on 5/11/15, 4 days before Sam announced his choice.
After losing out on Diamond Stone, the Badgers added van Vliet to the 2015 class of Alex Illikainen, Brevin Pritzl, Khalil Iverson and Charlie Thomas.
That is the most phenomenal sentence I think I've ever read in my life.
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van Vliet committed on 5/11/15, 4 days before Sam announced his choice.
After losing out on Diamond Stone, the Badgers added van Vliet to the 2015 class of Alex Illikainen, Brevin Pritzl, Khalil Iverson and Charlie Thomas.
That's right. He was ineligible his first season.
That is the most phenomenal sentence I think I've ever read in my life.
Yeah it is pretty humorous.
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van Vliet committed on 5/11/15, 4 days before Sam announced his choice.
After losing out on Diamond Stone, the Badgers added van Vliet to the 2015 class which contained the likes of Alex Illikainen, Brevin Pritzl, Khalil Iverson and Charlie Thomas.
I don't think that 5-some could compete in the Horizon League.
I saw that May date, too. I am almost positive AVV committed in April and it became official on May 11, which is the date stamped on AVV's commitment tweet. Either way, AVV committed before Sam.
I had forgotten about Stone as part of the timeline. So one spot was being held for Stone, and that left one spot in 2016 for a PG. Stone went to Maryland and that spot went to AVV.
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I saw that May date, too. I am almost positive AVV committed in April and it became official on May 11, which is the date stamped on AVV's commitment tweet. Either way, AVV committed before Sam.
I had forgotten about Stone as part of the timeline. So one spot was being held for Stone, and that left one spot in 2016 for a PG. Stone went to Maryland and that spot went to AVV.
Silly to hold a spot for a kid who couldn't get into your school.
::) :o
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My BIL (a Tennessee grad) calls Marquette "A couple of albinos and Sideshow Bob".
Eye'm apalled, hey?
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I really liked "Point Sam". A Joe Ingles in the making, perhaps?
All he needs is the ball and we'll see a lot more from him.
I think in 2 years we might like "Point Joey" as well - like Ben Simmons, but with a shot.
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I really liked "Point Sam". A Joe Ingles in the making, perhaps?
All he needs is the ball and we'll see a lot more from him.
I think in 2 years we might like "Point Joey" as well - like Ben Simmons, but with a shot.
G-Town did not pressure MU. Suspect that the Friars will attack the ball on Sunday whether or not Markus plays. The Pirates forced SHU into 22 TOs.
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Silly to hold a spot for a kid who couldn't get into your school.
::) :o
This. Love it. ;D
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FIFY
Guys like Markus and Sam will likely get summer league invites, and have an opportunity to catch on with a team if they work out. Sometimes its better than being drafted late in the second round.
So true. No better example of that than Wes Matthews. He signed as a free agent with Utah after going undrafted and made the minimum (approx $450,000) his first year. He had a really good year, and then had the freedom of not being tied into a mandatory multi-year rookie deal that first rounders get. The very next year he was making more than the #1 pick in his draft class, Blake Griffin ($5.7 > $5.3), after Portland signed him as a restricted free agent and Utah didn't match. Granted that situation was highly unusual, but the basic point is a good one. Wesley will end up making more than $100 million on player contracts alone by the time he's done. Unreal.
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G-Town did not pressure MU. Suspect that the Friars will attack the ball on Sunday whether or not Markus plays. The Pirates forced SHU into 22 TOs.
So they were all unforced? Not worried!
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So true. No better example of that than Wes Matthews. He signed as a free agent with Utah after going undrafted and made the minimum (approx $450,000) his first year. He had a really good year, and then had the freedom of not being tied into a mandatory multi-year rookie deal that first rounders get. The very next year he was making more than the #1 pick in his draft class, Blake Griffin ($5.7 > $5.3), after Portland signed him as a restricted free agent and Utah didn't match. Granted that situation was highly unusual, but the basic point is a good one. Wesley will end up making more than $100 million on player contracts alone by the time he's done. Unreal.
Okay...this worked great for Wes, but I really feel like this is the rare exception, not the rule. There are hundreds of kids that are technically draft eligible every year that go undrafted. Probably at least 50-100 that think they have a shot but ultimately don't. I feel like maybe once or twice a year you hear this story, but the number of Ben Wallace, Avery Johnson, Bruce Bowen, Wes Matthews types are once every couple years guys. Far more likely you'll stick from a second round pick (Novak, Diener, Jae) than going undrafted and hoping (Jerel, Vander, Gardner, Jamil).
I think this is a somewhat ridiculous trope that MU fans have convinced themselves is real because Wes Matthews did it. If there were 20 guys a year that earned regular contracts from being undrafted, then maybe there's an argument, but repeatedly citing the Dave Singleman of the NBA isn't very convincing.
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Who had a better freshman year so far Joey or Henry Ellenson? Bearing in mind Joey has a far superior supporting cast.
Joey has a much better outside shot, and I think that will make the difference as far as future NBA success.
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Hard to compare because of the different circumstances. Joey has been more efficient and fits this team better then Henry would IMO but we will never know for sure.
Henry needed and wanted the ball in his hands on basically every play......it was like that in high school and in his one year at MU.
Hausers not built like that.
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Okay...this worked great for Wes, but I really feel like this is the rare exception, not the rule. There are hundreds of kids that are technically draft eligible every year that go undrafted. Probably at least 50-100 that think they have a shot but ultimately don't. I feel like maybe once or twice a year you hear this story, but the number of Ben Wallace, Avery Johnson, Bruce Bowen, Wes Matthews types are once every couple years guys. Far more likely you'll stick from a second round pick (Novak, Diener, Jae) than going undrafted and hoping (Jerel, Vander, Gardner, Jamil).
I think this is a somewhat ridiculous trope that MU fans have convinced themselves is real because Wes Matthews did it. If there were 20 guys a year that earned regular contracts from being undrafted, then maybe there's an argument, but repeatedly citing the Dave Singleman of the NBA isn't very convincing.
Yeah, lightning does not always strike home often. Really depends on the situation. Wesley found the right spot at the right time.
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My boss (UW grad) called them thugs.
Must be nice to have a racist for a boss. At least he's open about his racism.
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Must be nice to have a racist for a boss. At least he's open about his racism.
Thugs come in all colors of da rainbow, hey?
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I really liked "Point Sam". A Joe Ingles in the making, perhaps?
All he needs is the ball and we'll see a lot more from him.
I think in 2 years we might like "Point Joey" as well - like Ben Simmons, but with a shot.
Is this post a joke? It's tough to determine on chat boards.
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OMG
Were they wearing hats indoors as well? Or had tattoos?
No, but anyone who actually has to keep a hand holding up their pants when they walk is a moron. The dude had to use one hand all the time to keep his pants from falling down to his ankles. Not thuggish, just stupid.
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Who had a better freshman year so far Joey or Henry Ellenson? Bearing in mind Joey has a far superior supporting cast.
Joey has a much better outside shot, and I think that will make the difference as far as future NBA success.
Joey is in almost every way a better basketball player than Henry. I can't really think of a deficiency when comparing. Not as tall? Doesn't get as many easy rebounds?
Joey is basically the harmonic mean between Henry's measurables and Sam's acumen/court sense. Which = an incredible player!
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Thugs come in all colors of da rainbow, hey?
I know you're not ignorant, so I'm not gonna play this game with you.
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Joey is in almost every way a better basketball player than Henry. I can't really think of a deficiency when comparing. Not as tall? Doesn't get as many easy rebounds?
Joey is basically the harmonic mean between Henry's measurables and Sam's acumen/court sense. Which = an incredible player!
Henry was a great collegiate rebounder, better than Joey there. Also better with the ball in his hands, though not way better. Joey's the better shooter and defender. Arguable everywhere else. I suspect Henry better, but too close to call for me.
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Henry was a great collegiate rebounder, better than Joey there. Also better with the ball in his hands, though not way better. Joey's the better shooter and defender. Arguable everywhere else. I suspect Henry better, but too close to call for me.
Henry would look a hell of a lot better on this team—Who knows, people may have loved him as a one and done with this cast around him.
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Henry would look a hell of a lot better on this team—Who knows, people may have loved him as a one and done with this cast around him.
This. No disrespect to Joey but I think other than shooting, Henry has him beat everywhere else
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This. No disrespect to Joey but I think other than shooting, Henry has him beat everywhere else
Henry was really bad at guarding people. I think Joey has him beat there, too.
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This. No disrespect to Joey but I think other than shooting, Henry has him beat everywhere else
Joey is a better defender.
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Henry was really bad at guarding people. I think Joey has him beat there, too.
Joey is a better defender.
Joey is really bad at guarding anyone who isn't a stretch big man. Henry is a much more versatile defender.
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Repetition is...
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Joey is really bad at guarding anyone who isn't a stretch big man. Henry is a much more versatile defender.
Henry could not guard his shadow away from the hoop. Short memory.
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Still can't. Hence the lack of playing time.
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Henry could not guard his shadow away from the hoop. Short memory.
But he could defend the hoop very well and was just as good as Joey is on the perimeter...which is not good. Joey doesn't defend anywhere well honestly. He had one good game against a hobbled Dean Wade and everyone crowned him.
Some stats:
Points per possession allowed: HE .855, JH 1.014
Steals per game: HE 0.8 JH 0.4
Steal %: HE 1.4% JH 0.7%
Blocks per game: HE 1.5 JH 0.1
Block %: HE 4.4% JH 0.1%
Defensive Rebound %: HE 24.2% JH 18.0%
Defensive Rating: HE 98.5 JH 97.2
Defensive Win Shares: HE 2.0 JH 1.0
Other than defensive rating, Henry wins every category by a significant margin and defensive rating is a more accurate measure for team defense than it is for individual. Add in the fact that Henry put up these numbers playing for a much worse defensive team and in a Big East with much better offenses....rumors of Henry's poor defense have been exaggerated....though not as much as rumors of Joey's good defense.
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Yeah the anti-Henryites are out again. Put this team around him and he'd be an All-American as a senior...though not necessarily first team. Hopefully Joey can get to that point.
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Yup, as awesome as it is that Joey is on MU and making great contributions as a Frosh to the #15 team in the nation, there is a reason that Henry was drafted in the 1st round and Joey is on no mock draft boards.
Joey is going to have a fantastic career at MU, but he isn't as talented as HE.
EDIT: That is comparing Freshman JH to Freshman HE. Nothing to say that Joey can't continue to develop and eventually surpass Henry.
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But he could defend the hoop very well and was just as good as Joey is on the perimeter...which is not good. Joey doesn't defend anywhere well honestly. He had one good game against a hobbled Dean Wade and everyone crowned him.
That's just not correct. Not only did he do well against Dean Wade, but he also did a tremendous job against Govan.
I think it is impossible to directly compare Joey and HE based on stats, as the teams around them were drastically different.
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That's just not correct. Not only did he do well against Dean Wade, but he also did a tremendous job against Govan.
I think it is impossible to directly compare Joey and HE based on stats, as the teams around them were drastically different.
It's very possible to compare them. The fact that Henry played with a worse defensive makes these stats when more impressive.
Govan had a good game against us. Shot an eFG% of 68.8%. I wouldn't call that a banner day for anyone. The only reason he didn't score more was because Akinjo refused to get him the ball.
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It's very possible to compare them. The fact that Henry played with a worse defensive makes these stats when more impressive.
Actually it doesn't. It's not that simple. You could be a bad defensive player in the post, but on a team with terrible perimeter defenders. By virtue of that, the opposing guards would score more often, making the post player artificially look better.
Even then, if you look at overall composite statistics that take into consideration some of these difficult to characterize variables, you'd see that Joey is by far the better offensive player (Ortg 114.7 vs. 106.3; eFg% 69% vs. 54%) and the better defender (Drtg 97.2 vs. 98.5).
I don't necessarily believe either of those conclusions though, because I don't believe you can accurately use any of these statistics to make conclusions on who was better, besides maybe simple conclusions like. Joey is by far the better perimeter player and HE is a better shot blocker.
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Actually it doesn't. It's not that simple. You could be a bad defensive player in the post, but on a team with terrible perimeter defenders. By virtue of that, the opposing guards would score more often, making the post player artificially look better.
I think this is a stretch at best. Opposing guards scoring more often would artificially deflate the post defenders dRtg (which is exactly what happened to Henry), it also would have no impact (in the way you are thinking) on points per possession allowed which is the best metric for determining individual defense. Also, unless you were running a defense where the post defender never helps when opposing guards penetrate, having poor defensive guards would put the post defender in a position where they need to try and make up for the mistakes of others. It could artificially inflate his blocking stats by giving him more opportunities but he still has to make that play.
Even then, if you look at overall composite statistics that take into consideration some of these difficult to characterize variables, you'd see that Joey is by far the better offensive player (Ortg 114.7 vs. 106.3; eFg% 69% vs. 54%) and the better defender (Drtg 97.2 vs. 98.5).
Joey isn't the far better offensive player. He is the far better shooter and more efficient offensive player. Henry's usage was a lot higher and his teammates a lot worse and that impacted his efficiency. If Joey had to carry the offensive load the way that Henry did he wouldn't be putting up nearly as efficient numbers.
Joey is a much inferior defender to Henry. He is the worst defender on this team. Drtg is the only stat that Joey has an advantage in and there is a very good reason why. Drtg is a good measurement of team defense but not individual. Drtg simply looks at whether or not an opponent scored while the player was on the floor and how often that player ends the opponent's possession (with a defensive rebound, steal, or block). For example, let's say Player A is on the floor for a defensive possession. He plays perfect defense on his assignment, doesn't let him touch the ball the whole possession. Meanwhile, Player B decides to tie his shoe in the middle of the possession which allows his assignment to have an uncontested dunk. Player A and Player B (and Players C, D, and E) are equally penalized by dRtg even though it is obviously Player B's fault. So, having good defensive teammates is going to artificially improve your dRtg while having defensively poor ones is going to artificially worsen it. Drtg is great for team defense, its great for identifying good/bad defenders within a team, terrible for comparing players from different teams.
A better statistic is points per possession allowed which actually measures how well an individual player defends when given an opportunity to defend against a shot.
So we know from basic statistics that Henry was better at ending opponent's possessions than Joey because he had better defensive rebounding, block, and steal numbers. So why did he have a worse defensive rating? Because the teammates around him were worse defensively (by a lot) than the teammates that Joey has this season.
I don't necessarily believe either of those conclusions though, because I don't believe you can accurately use any of these statistics to make conclusions on who was better, besides maybe simple conclusions like. Joey is by far the better perimeter player and HE is a better shot blocker.
But you can. If you understand the statistics and the context that they give they can give you an accurate picture of who is better at different things. Joey is the much better shooter, Henry is equal to or better in just about every other category that can be measured.
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And please don't take this as a dis of Joey. I love Joey and think he is going to be an absolute stud for us. But there is reason why Henry was a first round draft pick. He was one of the most talented players that Marquette has ever had. Most comparisons against Henry are going to fall short. If you surrounded Henry with the team that we have now....damn, the things that team could do.
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TAMU
Henry was an outstanding player, and one of the best freshmen in MU history. No comparison between Joey and HE at this point. I love Joey, but HE was a big time player from day one.
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And please don't take this as a dis of Joey. I love Joey and think he is going to be an absolute stud for us. But there is reason why Henry was a first round draft pick. He was one of the most talented players that Marquette has ever had. Most comparisons against Henry are going to fall short. If you surrounded Henry with the team that we have now....damn, the things that team could do.
+1
Henry was not without flaws. Sure, he forced things too much sometimes, he wasn't a great (but was serviceable) defender, but he had a take-over-a-game ability like no one else until Markus this year. No, his efficiency wasn't stellar, but that was also a product of the surrounding cast and the reason he had to force things. He was certainly among the most naturally gifted players we've seen in a generation.
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+1
Henry was not without flaws. Sure, he forced things too much sometimes, he wasn't a great (but was serviceable) defender, but he had a take-over-a-game ability like no one else until Markus this year. No, his efficiency wasn't stellar, but that was also a product of the surrounding cast and the reason he had to force things. He was certainly among the most naturally gifted players we've seen in a generation.
Henry’s post defense was serviceable, but he was a turnstile in space.
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Hard to know if Henry's efficiency was a product of his supporting cast or not......would he have played differently with this supporting cast? Maybe maybe not......he wanted to be one and done.......he forced things a lot.....he was a very good player.
I'm just not convinced that Henry would have become more of a team guy if he was with the current group.....obviously we will never know.
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Purposely avoiding the HE/Joey discussion, I do think he will benefit from a summer in the weight room. But I'll bet it is a high priority item for Todd.
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Purposely avoiding the HE/Joey discussion, I do think he will benefit from a summer in the weight room. But I'll bet it is a high priority item for Todd.
I agree. I think some of the sloppiness that can occur when he takes the ball inside might be mitigated by just getting stronger through the contact. Joey is still a hell of a player as is.
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Henry’s post defense was serviceable, but he was a turnstile in space.
As most guys his size are.
Yet.....I'm not even sure how accurate that is.
I went back and looked at his synergy numbers from that season. There were 44 different times that Henry's assignment tried to take him in isolation. In those 44 attempts, Henry only surrendered 22 points for a points per possession of 0.5. That 0.5 number was in the 89th percentile of all Division One players. That would seem to indicate that he was actually pretty good at defending in space...but of course guarding against isolation and guarding in space aren't necessarily the same thing.
Defending against isolation plays was actually the strongest point of Henry's individual defense. He was average against spot up shooters (47th percentile) and average against post ups (43rd percentile). Where he struggled was where our entire team struggled that season, against pick and roll play guarding both the roll man (34th percentile) and the ball handler (6th percentile).
Now an interesting note about his isolation defense. When he would get isoed and his assignment took a jump shot, he was actually awful (26th percentile). But on isos where his man would drive to the hoop he was elite (98th percentile). So it's possible some of the Henry can't guard in space memories come from pick and roll plays and jump shots.
This is the hard thing about being a fan. We are very good at identifying problems with and good things about individual offense, team offense, and team defense. In my experience, fans (myself included) have trouble picking out those same things about individual defense. It is hard to pay attention to what each individual player is doing on defense because the reality is, if they are playing good defense their opponent won't even get a shot up so it doesn't seem memorable. We remember the big steals, blocks, and shot clock violations and we also remember when a player gets embarrassed or manhandled on the defensive end. We don't remember the fundamentally sound defense that forced an opponent to pass to someone else or shoot a contested a jumpshot.
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Henry was a good rebounder on the defensive boards and was good defensively in the lane when he played center when Fischer was in foul trouble. Otherwise, he reallly struggled on his heels and laterallly on defense when playing forward. We all noted that on the MU boards during his one season. Loved Henry, but his D was rather lacking outside of those defensive boards.
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As most guys his size are.
Yet.....I'm not even sure how accurate that is.
I went back and looked at his synergy numbers from that season. There were 44 different times that Henry's assignment tried to take him in isolation. In those 44 attempts, Henry only surrendered 22 points for a points per possession of 0.5. That 0.5 number was in the 89th percentile of all Division One players. That would seem to indicate that he was actually pretty good at defending in space...but of course guarding against isolation and guarding in space aren't necessarily the same thing.
Defending against isolation plays was actually the strongest point of Henry's individual defense. He was average against spot up shooters (47th percentile) and average against post ups (43rd percentile). Where he struggled was where our entire team struggled that season, against pick and roll play guarding both the roll man (34th percentile) and the ball handler (6th percentile).
Now an interesting note about his isolation defense. When he would get isoed and his assignment took a jump shot, he was actually awful (26th percentile). But on isos where his man would drive to the hoop he was elite (98th percentile). So it's possible some of the Henry can't guard in space memories come from pick and roll plays and jump shots.
This is the hard thing about being a fan. We are very good at identifying problems with and good things about individual offense, team offense, and team defense. In my experience, fans (myself included) have trouble picking out those same things about individual defense. It is hard to pay attention to what each individual player is doing on defense because the reality is, if they are playing good defense their opponent won't even get a shot up so it doesn't seem memorable. We remember the big steals, blocks, and shot clock violations and we also remember when a player gets embarrassed or manhandled on the defensive end. We don't remember the fundamentally sound defense that forced an opponent to pass to someone else or shoot a contested a jumpshot.
This post is a good example of why we keep you on Scoop.
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My BIL (a Tennessee grad) calls Marquette "A couple of albinos and Sideshow Bob".
Does your BIL drool a lot ?
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Henry was a good rebounder on the defensive boards and was good defensively in the lane when he played center when Fischer was in foul trouble. Otherwise, he reallly struggled on his heels and laterallly on defense when playing forward. We all noted that on the MU boards during his one season. Loved Henry, but his D was rather lacking outside of those defensive boards.
Honestly, trust the eye test of scoopers as far as I can throw it...And since you can't throw theoretical objects...
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But on isos where his man would drive to the hoop he was elite (98th percentile). So it's possible some of the Henry can't guard in space memories come from pick and roll plays and jump shots.
One of the things Henry got really good at was forcing his man wide when defending the drive. It wasn't always a strength, but as the season went on he used his length better and forced drivers to try to go around him, which didn't work well because his 7+ foot wingspan would force them into awkward angles.
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As most guys his size are.
Yet.....I'm not even sure how accurate that is.
I went back and looked at his synergy numbers from that season. There were 44 different times that Henry's assignment tried to take him in isolation. In those 44 attempts, Henry only surrendered 22 points for a points per possession of 0.5. That 0.5 number was in the 89th percentile of all Division One players. That would seem to indicate that he was actually pretty good at defending in space...but of course guarding against isolation and guarding in space aren't necessarily the same thing.
Defending against isolation plays was actually the strongest point of Henry's individual defense. He was average against spot up shooters (47th percentile) and average against post ups (43rd percentile). Where he struggled was where our entire team struggled that season, against pick and roll play guarding both the roll man (34th percentile) and the ball handler (6th percentile).
Now an interesting note about his isolation defense. When he would get isoed and his assignment took a jump shot, he was actually awful (26th percentile). But on isos where his man would drive to the hoop he was elite (98th percentile). So it's possible some of the Henry can't guard in space memories come from pick and roll plays and jump shots.
This is the hard thing about being a fan. We are very good at identifying problems with and good things about individual offense, team offense, and team defense. In my experience, fans (myself included) have trouble picking out those same things about individual defense. It is hard to pay attention to what each individual player is doing on defense because the reality is, if they are playing good defense their opponent won't even get a shot up so it doesn't seem memorable. We remember the big steals, blocks, and shot clock violations and we also remember when a player gets embarrassed or manhandled on the defensive end. We don't remember the fundamentally sound defense that forced an opponent to pass to someone else or shoot a contested a jumpshot.
What is source of data out of curiosity?
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What is source of data out of curiosity?
Synergy
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Honestly, trust the eye test of scoopers as far as I can throw it...And since you can't throw theoretical objects...
[/quote Henry was a decent defender as a center...at forward, not really. Those theoreticals are really biased by rebounds, blocks and steals. Chartouneys #s from the past don’t look so good now.
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Those theoreticals are really biased by rebounds, blocks and steals.
I'm pretty sure that's not how Synergy works at all.
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As most guys his size are.
Yet.....I'm not even sure how accurate that is.
I went back and looked at his synergy numbers from that season. There were 44 different times that Henry's assignment tried to take him in isolation. In those 44 attempts, Henry only surrendered 22 points for a points per possession of 0.5. That 0.5 number was in the 89th percentile of all Division One players. That would seem to indicate that he was actually pretty good at defending in space...but of course guarding against isolation and guarding in space aren't necessarily the same thing.
Defending against isolation plays was actually the strongest point of Henry's individual defense. He was average against spot up shooters (47th percentile) and average against post ups (43rd percentile). Where he struggled was where our entire team struggled that season, against pick and roll play guarding both the roll man (34th percentile) and the ball handler (6th percentile).
Now an interesting note about his isolation defense. When he would get isoed and his assignment took a jump shot, he was actually awful (26th percentile). But on isos where his man would drive to the hoop he was elite (98th percentile). So it's possible some of the Henry can't guard in space memories come from pick and roll plays and jump shots.
This is the hard thing about being a fan. We are very good at identifying problems with and good things about individual offense, team offense, and team defense. In my experience, fans (myself included) have trouble picking out those same things about individual defense. It is hard to pay attention to what each individual player is doing on defense because the reality is, if they are playing good defense their opponent won't even get a shot up so it doesn't seem memorable. We remember the big steals, blocks, and shot clock violations and we also remember when a player gets embarrassed or manhandled on the defensive end. We don't remember the fundamentally sound defense that forced an opponent to pass to someone else or shoot a contested a jumpshot.
This is incredible, TAMU. I honestly didn't even know that any of this data existed.
As for "what if Henry was on this team" ... he and Markus would have some interesting rock-paper-scissors contests to see who got the ball.
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Honestly, trust the eye test of scoopers as far as I can throw it...And since you can't throw theoretical objects...
[/quote Henry was a decent defender as a center...at forward, not really. Those theoreticals are really biased by rebounds, blocks and steals. Chartouneys #s from the past don’t look so good now.
I'm not sure what happened here.
If you are saying my numbers are biased by steals, blocks and rebounds, no they are not. Synergy does not look at blocks, steals, or rebounds. There are stats such as d-rating which are biased to blocks, steals, and rebounds. That's one of the reasons I don't put a lot of stock in d-rating when judging individual defense. I also think eye tests are biased by blocks, steals and rebounds.
I'm not sure what you are saying about Chartouny. His defense has been fantastic for us. Its his offense that is the problem and that was always a question with with him.
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I'm not sure what happened here.
If you are saying my numbers are biased by steals, blocks and rebounds, no they are not. Synergy does not look at blocks, steals, or rebounds. There are stats such as d-rating which are biased to blocks, steals, and rebounds. That's one of the reasons I don't put a lot of stock in d-rating when judging individual defense. I also think eye tests are biased by blocks, steals and rebounds.
I'm not sure what you are saying about Chartouny. His defense has been fantastic for us. Its his offense that is the problem and that was always a question with with him.
I was not addressing Synergy. But, big problem with Synergy is that it measures what happens, not why it happened. Guys are out of position or make mistakes that result in others being “blamed”. No system will ever measure that.
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I was not addressing Synergy. But, big problem with Synergy is that it measures what happens, not why it happened. Guys are out of position or make mistakes that result in others being “blamed”. No system will ever measure that.
This is true. But it goes both ways. There is just as much chance that other guys were out of position and Henry got "blamed" for other's mistakes. In fact, I know that happened a lot that season since our guards had very poor containment ability.
Services like synergy don't paint a perfect picture but over the course of a season, they can paint a pretty accurate one. In a single game, there is a small enough sample size that a few "flukes" (for lack of a better word) could drastically alter the accuracy of a tool like this. But over the course of an entire season? Not so much.
What's more likely? That with thousands of points of data, Henry got so many "flukes" with no regression to the mean, that it gave him the numbers of a very good defender when he was actually a very poor one? Or is it more likely that in a bad season, Scoopers' eye tests picked up on and remembered more bad moments than good moments, even if there were more good moments? It's not a bad thing, its just part of being a sports fan. We remember the very good, and we remember the bad. We don't remember the regular good.
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Winning plays at winning time.
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AVERAGE(Sam, Joey) > AVERAGE(Henry, Wally)
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AVERAGE(Sam, Joey) > AVERAGE(Henry, Wally)
MIN, MAX, and MODE as well
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Bump........could we just pin this thread?
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Sam and Joey would overwhelm the Ellenson brothers.
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Nice write up from Dauster.
Also a nice discussion of the Big Ten mediocrity (that could probable apply to the BE also).
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/01/27/saturdays-things-to-know-the-big-12-rolls-kentuckys-back-justin-robinson-breaks-out/ (https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2019/01/27/saturdays-things-to-know-the-big-12-rolls-kentuckys-back-justin-robinson-breaks-out/)
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Still love the Hausers.
But that's two horrible games in a row for Joey, and 4 points and 3 turnovers combined from the Hausers against Nova -- and we still won.
If Markus had done anything close to that, the pitchforks and torches would have come out.
Hell, he had a bad turnover today and some Scoopers are willing to throw his 38 points into the toilet. Sometimes I wonder.
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Still love the Hausers.
But that's two horrible games in a row for Joey, and 4 points and 3 turnovers combined from the Hausers against Nova -- and we still won.
If Markus had done anything close to that, the pitchforks and torches would have come out.
Hell, he had a bad turnover today and some Scoopers are willing to throw his 38 points into the toilet. Sometimes I wonder.
Co-sign!
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Yeah idk what the deal is. They both were abysmal this week. We need them to play well if we wanna make a run in March
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I agree. I think some of the sloppiness that can occur when he takes the ball inside might be mitigated by just getting stronger through the contact. Joey is still a hell of a player as is.
He has already been in the program. Has he not already been in the weight room the past year?
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Frankly, the total undying, uncritical-no-matter-what-they-do love for the Hausers and the relative lack of same for the guy who has absolutely carried this team could be looked at in racial terms.
I don't want to make it about that, though.
I honestly believe most Scoopers are above that. At least I hope so.
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Frankly, the total undying, uncritical-no-matter-what-they-do love for the Hausers and the relative lack of same for the guy who has absolutely carried this team could be looked at in racial terms.
I don't want to make it about that, though.
I honestly believe most Scoopers are above that. At least I hope so.
This is as stupid of a post as you’ll see on Scoop.
Fans are more critical of a superstar not playing up to his abilities. The superstar is more relied on to help the team win games. Has nothing to do with skin color.
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Frankly, the total undying, uncritical-no-matter-what-they-do love for the Hausers and the relative lack of same for the guy who has absolutely carried this team could be looked at in racial terms.
I don't want to make it about that, though.
I honestly believe most Scoopers are above that. At least I hope so.
What?
82, man are you losing it?
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Hausers were terrible in the same game. Bound to happen at some point. Happened against the best team in the conference and we won. I won’t complain.
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This is as stupid of a post as you’ll see on Scoop.
Fans are more critical of a superstar not playing up to his abilities. The superstar is more relied on to help the team win games. Has nothing to do with skin color.
You're probably right, wades.
I had a couple beers as the guy in charge of the National MU Day festivities here, and maybe that's what's talkin'. I allow that's possible. I hope that's what it is.
Cheers!
Big win for the Warriors!
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Frankly, the total undying, uncritical-no-matter-what-they-do love for the Hausers and the relative lack of same for the guy who has absolutely carried this team could be looked at in racial terms.
I don't want to make it about that, though.
I honestly believe most Scoopers are above that. At least I hope so.
Dude not everything has to be a thing. Don’t become a parody of yourself.
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Frankly, the total undying, uncritical-no-matter-what-they-do love for the Hausers and the relative lack of same for the guy who has absolutely carried this team could be looked at in racial terms.
I don't want to make it about that, though.
I honestly believe most Scoopers are above that. At least I hope so.
I'd probably recommend breathing before posting, especially after a big win
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I'd probably recommend breathing before posting, especially after a big win
Yeah.
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Hausers were terrible in the same game. Bound to happen at some point. Happened against the best team in the conference and we won. I won’t complain.
Agreed, hopefully this week was their slump and they really hit their stride in say... 4-5 weeks
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82 lives to be the contrarian. His post, pre or post cocktails, is simply an attempt to create controversy. There is zero credibility to his post on this thread.
All I know, that was one great win!! Anyone that wants to throw darts today is just an angry soul.
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82 lives to be the contrarian. His post, pre or post cocktails, is simply an attempt to creare controversy. There is zero credibility to his post on this thread.
All I know, that was one great win!! Anyone that wants to throw darts today is just an angry soul.
But I don't live to be contrarian. I do like to make folks think, though.
And I already have allowed for the fact that I might be a little buzzed.
Thrilled about the win, and I love our team. Go Marquette.
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82
I am fan of yours and think you are one of the good guys here. I have posted buzzed many times, and sometime regretting it. That said, you love the action and like to stir the pot. I’m good with that!
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Sugar Creek Blood Orange IPA.
It's a good one!
I should know, because I had more than one. Several more than one.
Go Marquette!
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FWIW they did have 9 assists between them.
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Frankly, the total undying, uncritical-no-matter-what-they-do love for the Hausers and the relative lack of same for the guy who has absolutely carried this team could be looked at in racial terms.
I don't want to make it about that, though.
I honestly believe most Scoopers are above that. At least I hope so.
I'm as SJW as they come and I disagree with the insinuation. People griped just as much about Henry trying to do too much. It's just the fan response to ball dominant players. Race has nothing to do with it.
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Is markus mixed idek
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I'm as SJW as they come and I disagree with the insinuation. People griped just as much about Henry trying to do too much. It's just the fan response to ball dominant players. Race has nothing to do with it.
Fair enough.
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Frankly, the total undying, uncritical-no-matter-what-they-do love for the Hausers and the relative lack of same for the guy who has absolutely carried this team could be looked at in racial terms.
I don't want to make it about that, though.
I honestly believe most Scoopers are above that. At least I hope so.
Nah...compare him to Rowsy last year and there were plenty of people picking on AR's game. No doubt who reps MU better off the court.
Implicit bias wise...show me someone who says they dont have them and I'll show you a liar.
On a different note...someone was ripping Sacar pretty good the other day on here. Pretty nice to see a kid who has nothing but loyalty and effort at MU play such a big role in such a big game. That is what makes college hoops so great.
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I'm as SJW as they come and I disagree with the insinuation. People griped just as much about Henry trying to do too much. It's just the fan response to ball dominant players. Race has nothing to do with it.
You're as SJW as they come?? Should white people be aloud to be rappers because some big time sjw weasels think black people own rapping so they can't. Yikes
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You're as SJW as they come?? Should white people be aloud to be rappers because some big time sjw weasels think black people own rapping so they can't. Yikes
Wtf? Who cares.
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Wow—-you guys sure know how to ruin a decent thread.
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Wtf? Who cares.
Sjws do
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Sjws do
My bad...didnt see any SJWs posting about rap on this board. Please tell me you are 16.
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Man do I love the Hausers.
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My bad...didnt see any SJWs posting about rap on this board. Please tell me you are 16.
I'll tell you I am 16. I'm not though. Anyways you clearly dont get what I'm talking about so forget it
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Wow—-you guys sure know how to ruin a decent thread.
Yup. This took a bizarre turn.
Man do I love the Hausers.
Me too.
And I love Markus Howard too!
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I really love the Hausers!!
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I really love the Hausers!!
+1!
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I really love the Hausers!!
+2!
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Go H-Bombs!
We are ... Marquette!
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I just want to throw in that we wound up at the same place as the Hauser and their family (and Cam and his family) after the game and those guys all could not have been nicer to the fans. And the fans were good too. 5 minutes of cheering, pictures and chants, and then everyone left them alone. Even took a photo with Ms. Lloyd Jr. in her Nova gear (with a bit of good natured ribbing).
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Legs
They are a great family. Cam and his gang are awesome as well. Loved the picture of your daughter with the boys.
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Thanks, Goose--sorry they wouldn't let us go upstairs at Buck's. If Chili would have been downstairs with me, we could have bum-rushed the bouncers.
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Legs
No doubt Real could bum-rush the bouncers. Not sure how much help I would have been. Hopefully we can meet at the FF!!
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Thanks, Goose--sorry they wouldn't let us go upstairs at Buck's. If Chili would have been downstairs with me, we could have bum-rushed the bouncers.
Sorry I didn’t get the chance to meet you. We were upstairs, I had no idea what RealChili’s real name wa so that was awkward to ask folks, but did see Goose at the bottom of the stairs. Bouncer told me I came down off the stairs I couldn’t go back up where my group was (along with my stuff).
We ended up at MKE Brewing after game which was a blast....nice place.
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Frankly, the total undying, uncritical-no-matter-what-they-do love for the Hausers and the relative lack of same for the guy who has absolutely carried this team could be looked at in racial terms.
I don't want to make it about that, though.
I honestly believe most Scoopers are above that. At least I hope so.
I know I'm a couple days late here.......but Jesus unnatural carnal knowledgeing Christ, THIS is officially the dumbest thing said on this board.
Banner week for Scoop.
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I know I'm a couple days late here.......but Jesus unnatural carnal knowledgeing Christ, THIS is officially the dumbest thing said on this board.
Banner week for Scoop.
Mike loves to bring that into a number of his posts....just read them....agenda driven.
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Mike loves to bring that into a number of his posts....just read them....agenda driven.
Dude, seriously?
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Implicit bias is absolutely a thing. Do I think it played a role here? Personally, no. As someone else pointed out, there were plenty of people trashing Rowsey last season and Henry three seasons ago (actually Henry still gets trashed occasionally). I think fans have the tendency to rip their best player when the team isn't as successful as they would like...of course the team is never as successful as most fans would like...I also think that our board for whatever reason doesn't like score-first PGs.
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Mike loves to bring that into a number of his posts....just read them....agenda driven.
Irony meter just exploded.
In before the lock.
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Implicit bias is absolutely a thing. Do I think it played a role here? Personally, no. As someone else pointed out, there were plenty of people trashing Rowsey last season and Henry three seasons ago (actually Henry still gets trashed occasionally). I think fans have the tendency to rip their best player when the team isn't as successful as they would like...of course the team is never as successful as most fans would like...I also think that our board for whatever reason doesn't like score-first PGs.
Rowsey wasn’t our best player tho
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Mike loves to bring that into a number of his posts....just read them....agenda driven.
Lack of self awareness revealed
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This thread is going to get shut down soon and deservedly so. Mike was wrong and cheeks just keeps revealing his character.
However, this dovetails with another thread about how the Hausers (may or may not be) are perceived by other coaches. I am thrilled Bo messed up with Sam. I am thrilled they play for Marquette. But their play is not beyond approach. Both struggle to beat their defender off the dribble. Both have a slow jumpshot that can be easily crowded. Neither has great lateral quickness. Both show their frustration easily. Joey is very prone to the dumb freshman pass.
Both shoot well, handle the ball well and can exploit mismatches around the basket. Both would be better with a pass first, penetrating PG. Both work their butts off on defense. Both have work to do to make the league.
I am a big fan of both. Neither is above reproach.
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However, this dovetails with another thread about the Hausers (may or may not be) ate perceived by other coaches. I am thrilled Bo messed up with Sam. I am thrilled they play for Marquette. But their play is not beyond approach. Both struggle to beat their defender off the dribble. Both have a slow jumpshot that can be easily crowded. Neither has great lateral quickness. Both show their frustration easily. Joey is very prone to the dumb freshman pass. Both shoot well, handle the ball well and can exploit mismatches around the basket. Both would be better with a pass first, penetrating PG. Both work their butts off on defense. Both have work to do to make the league.
I am a big fan of both. Neither is above reproach.
Exactly right. And the operative word with Joey is "freshman." It's gotten a little easy to forget that he's just getting started.
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Lack of self awareness revealed
Not lack of awareness, typical chicos, fully intentional.
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Rowsey wasn’t our best player tho
Fair, but he was our best offensive player.
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IBTL
And ND sucks.
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Love this team.......
https://twitter.com/mikebroeker/status/1094744199700844544?s=21
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This thread is going to get shut down soon and deservedly so. Mike was wrong and cheeks just keeps revealing his character.
However, this dovetails with another thread about how the Hausers (may or may not be) are perceived by other coaches. I am thrilled Bo messed up with Sam. I am thrilled they play for Marquette. But their play is not beyond approach. Both struggle to beat their defender off the dribble. Both have a slow jumpshot that can be easily crowded. Neither has great lateral quickness. Both show their frustration easily. Joey is very prone to the dumb freshman pass.
Both shoot well, handle the ball well and can exploit mismatches around the basket. Both would be better with a pass first, penetrating PG. Both work their butts off on defense. Both have work to do to make the league.
I am a big fan of both. Neither is above reproach.
I agree with all of this.
And if hoopaloop actually read this thread, he would have seen that I admitted I was over the top on what I had said.
He might try admitting a mistake occasionally, too, but that can't be easy for somebody who is certain that he knows everything about everything. Ners and Smuggles can't do it, either.
As for the subject, Markus definitely does get criticized on this board far more than either Hauser does. It must happen for the same reason some don't want to vote Markus SOTG even when he obviously is the only rational choice -- we have gotten so used to his greatness that we sometimes take it for granted; plus, the human tendency is to pick nits.
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Joey is very prone to the dumb freshman pass
That shortcoming has not been limited to freshman on this year's team.
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I agree with all of this.
And if hoopaloop actually read this thread, he would have seen that I admitted I was over the top on what I had said.
He might try admitting a mistake occasionally, too, but that can't be easy for somebody who is certain that he knows everything about everything. Ners and Smuggles can't do it, either.
As for the subject, Markus definitely does get criticized on this board far more than either Hauser does. It must happen for the same reason some don't want to vote Markus SOTG even when he obviously is the only rational choice -- we have gotten so used to his greatness that we sometimes take it for granted; plus, the human tendency is to pick nits.
Howard does get bashed too much.
Having said that, he is our QB. He is our star pitcher. He is our goalie.
He is the guy who will get examined the most. And rightfully so. He has bought himself that exposure and that scrutiny by being our star.
I think he’s amazing but in sports we always over examine the star. Skin color and race be damned. Aaron Rodgers gets over examined more than the wide receivers etc. that’s because he’s the star. He’s the one driving the team.
Howard is a unnatural carnal knowledgeing amazing player and even better person. Unfortunately the better you are the greater the scrutiny.
Now to the topic at hand, the hausers are amazing. Do they have some things they are not great at? YES. But I would take them as my starters on my team every Gol Dern day. They are freaking amazing.
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Lack of self awareness revealed
Nope. I do it as well, and have said so I’m the past. Doesn’t change what he did and has done on a number of occasions. Surprised it isn’t part of his latest signature where it usually resides.
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I agree with all of this.
And if hoopaloop actually read this thread, he would have seen that I admitted I was over the top on what I had said.
He might try admitting a mistake occasionally, too, but that can't be easy for somebody who is certain that he knows everything about everything. Ners and Smuggles can't do it, either.
As for the subject, Markus definitely does get criticized on this board far more than either Hauser does. It must happen for the same reason some don't want to vote Markus SOTG even when he obviously is the only rational choice -- we have gotten so used to his greatness that we sometimes take it for granted; plus, the human tendency is to pick nits.
I’ve admitted mistakes countless times here. Countless. Use the search functionality.
Part of revealing my character....right? LOL. Always the same guys bitching, also not surprising...always along ideological lines...also not surprising.
Not what is said here, but who says the what. Been that way for a decade here.
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I’ve admitted mistakes countless times here. Countless. Use the search functionality.
Part of revealing my character....right? LOL. Always the same guys bitching, also not surprising...always along ideological lines...also not surprising.
Not what is said here, but who says the what. Been that way for a decade here.
You're the injured party as usual, Banny McBannerson. Everybody else has poor character except you.
What will your screen name be when you come back from your next banning?
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You're the injured party as usual, Banny McBannerson. Everybody else has poor character except you.
We all have poor character at times, it is called being human. I’m human, have bad character at times. Most of time decent character, and sometimes great character. I suspect the same is true of you and others here.
Not sure why you said I don’t admit I’m wrong occasionally, because I have. More hyperbole I suppose. At any rate, it’s good to be human.
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Howard is a unnatural carnal knowledgeing amazing player and even better person. Unfortunately the better you are the greater the scrutiny.
I always get a kick out of this. I know it's just a common saying but I love it. Dude's a top 5 player in the country. Does that make him a top-2 Person!?
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I always get a kick out of this. I know it's just a common saying but I love it. Dude's a top 5 player in the country. Does that make him a top-2 Person!?
He doesn't associate with any well known nut-punchers, so he's at least above Happ.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWkF5hggDko
Grew up winning together. Time to go lock down a Big East title.
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I'm a big fan of Mr. Hauser's No Shovel Club, Effective March 1st
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Interesting re-reading this thread.
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Interesting re-reading this thread.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/374pcIBVEGb6g/giphy.gif)
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This thread is going to get shut down soon and deservedly so. Mike was wrong and cheeks just keeps revealing his character.
However, this dovetails with another thread about how the Hausers (may or may not be) are perceived by other coaches. I am thrilled Bo messed up with Sam. I am thrilled they play for Marquette. But their play is not beyond approach. Both struggle to beat their defender off the dribble. Both have a slow jumpshot that can be easily crowded. Neither has great lateral quickness. Both show their frustration easily. Joey is very prone to the dumb freshman pass.
Both shoot well, handle the ball well and can exploit mismatches around the basket. Both would be better with a pass first, penetrating PG. Both work their butts off on defense. Both have work to do to make the league.
I am a big fan of both. Neither is above reproach.
Are you sure you're not a Scout? I just spoke with my UNLV '90 alum friend, and he asked his NBA scout buddy for a synopsis on Sam, it was almost word~for~word to this post.
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Reading this thread and contrasting it with "new" opinions of the boys and their family would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.
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Reading this thread and contrasting it with "new" opinions of the boys and their family would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.
Is there a way to post a sad "+1"?
Oh well...agreed, Lennys.
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Are you sure you're not a Scout? I just spoke with my UNLV '90 alum friend, and he asked his NBA scout buddy for a synopsis on Sam, it was almost word~for~word to this post.
Maybe he is quoting me because I am just that damn good.
Written in February. Or about the time they decided that they needed to work on their prose. Joey's petulance had been clear to me from November. His decision making and quickness did not improve as the season went on. Sam was shut down by a 6'4 guy against Murray St. Got right up under his chin and dared him to dribble. Great catch and shoot players. Nice in the mid post against smaller players. Played hard.
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Guys.....
More fodder....
Inside scoop from someone who knows Hauser’s parents:
“We were so hoping Markus would leave. He'd discovered nobody NBA wanted. Arrogant announcement "Dear Marquette, I'm back" was the straw. Sam & Joey are not used to losing. 3 Large School state championships. Real problems started just before losing streak. Wojo called plays for Sam late in games. Markus ignored them and took shots himself. Meeting called. Wojo made promises, but never kept - Markus just kept doing what he wanted. Villanova game in Philly - we were up while Markus sat. He returned and took poor shots that cost us the game. Failing to win just two games to clinch the Big East with Markus continuing to hog and free lance. He and Wojo are responsible for collapse. Sam lost confidence in Wojo and saw no signs of controlling Markus - predicting more losses in to next year. Sam has next level aspirations with never a chance to show his stuff. Markus returned to try to bolster his NBA worth - my prediction is he will be a worse ball hog next year!
Wojo has always been a terrible game coach. Early with Rousey, Markus, Rhinehardt and Sam, MU had to score 90 points to win a game. When opponents figured us out, usually we would blow double digit half time leads to double digit second half losses. Once they figured out how to stop Markus, Wojo had no answer. One pro scout said Markus is a great shootder with terrible shot selection. He had more turnovers than assists - poor defender. Wojo made promise to Sam he never even tried to keep. We know the Hausers. Quality family. Parents did not make decision. Sam did. I had lunch with Dave Hauser and Jack Bennett last Friday. He reported that Sam was in a very bad place. They were hoping Markus would leave - and no chance Wojo would rein him in. What an idiot.”
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Not what is said here, but who says the what. Been that way for a decade here.
Life is so unfair.
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Guys.....
More fodder....
Inside scoop from someone who knows Hauser’s parents:
“We were so hoping Markus would leave. He'd discovered nobody NBA wanted. Arrogant announcement "Dear Marquette, I'm back" was the straw. Sam & Joey are not used to losing. 3 Large School state championships. Real problems started just before losing streak. Wojo called plays for Sam late in games. Markus ignored them and took shots himself. Meeting called. Wojo made promises, but never kept - Markus just kept doing what he wanted. Villanova game in Philly - we were up while Markus sat. He returned and took poor shots that cost us the game. Failing to win just two games to clinch the Big East with Markus continuing to hog and free lance. He and Wojo are responsible for collapse. Sam lost confidence in Wojo and saw no signs of controlling Markus - predicting more losses in to next year. Sam has next level aspirations with never a chance to show his stuff. Markus returned to try to bolster his NBA worth - my prediction is he will be a worse ball hog next year!
Wojo has always been a terrible game coach. Early with Rousey, Markus, Rhinehardt and Sam, MU had to score 90 points to win a game. When opponents figured us out, usually we would blow double digit half time leads to double digit second half losses. Once they figured out how to stop Markus, Wojo had no answer. One pro scout said Markus is a great shootder with terrible shot selection. He had more turnovers than assists - poor defender. Wojo made promise to Sam he never even tried to keep. We know the Hausers. Quality family. Parents did not make decision. Sam did. I had lunch with Dave Hauser and Jack Bennett last Friday. He reported that Sam was in a very bad place. They were hoping Markus would leave - and no chance Wojo would rein him in. What an idiot.”
So, all those trips together up to Point were meaningless?
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Guys.....
More fodder....
Inside scoop from someone who knows Hauser’s parents:
“We were so hoping Markus would leave. He'd discovered nobody NBA wanted. Arrogant announcement "Dear Marquette, I'm back" was the straw. Sam & Joey are not used to losing. 3 Large School state championships. Real problems started just before losing streak. Wojo called plays for Sam late in games. Markus ignored them and took shots himself. Meeting called. Wojo made promises, but never kept - Markus just kept doing what he wanted. Villanova game in Philly - we were up while Markus sat. He returned and took poor shots that cost us the game. Failing to win just two games to clinch the Big East with Markus continuing to hog and free lance. He and Wojo are responsible for collapse. Sam lost confidence in Wojo and saw no signs of controlling Markus - predicting more losses in to next year. Sam has next level aspirations with never a chance to show his stuff. Markus returned to try to bolster his NBA worth - my prediction is he will be a worse ball hog next year!
Wojo has always been a terrible game coach. Early with Rousey, Markus, Rhinehardt and Sam, MU had to score 90 points to win a game. When opponents figured us out, usually we would blow double digit half time leads to double digit second half losses. Once they figured out how to stop Markus, Wojo had no answer. One pro scout said Markus is a great shootder with terrible shot selection. He had more turnovers than assists - poor defender. Wojo made promise to Sam he never even tried to keep. We know the Hausers. Quality family. Parents did not make decision. Sam did. I had lunch with Dave Hauser and Jack Bennett last Friday. He reported that Sam was in a very bad place. They were hoping Markus would leave - and no chance Wojo would rein him in. What an idiot.”
Excellent detective work. Thanks for sharing .
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Guys.....
More fodder....
Inside scoop from someone who knows Hauser’s parents:
“We were so hoping Markus would leave. He'd discovered nobody NBA wanted. Arrogant announcement "Dear Marquette, I'm back" was the straw. Sam & Joey are not used to losing. 3 Large School state championships. Real problems started just before losing streak. Wojo called plays for Sam late in games. Markus ignored them and took shots himself. Meeting called. Wojo made promises, but never kept - Markus just kept doing what he wanted. Villanova game in Philly - we were up while Markus sat. He returned and took poor shots that cost us the game. Failing to win just two games to clinch the Big East with Markus continuing to hog and free lance. He and Wojo are responsible for collapse. Sam lost confidence in Wojo and saw no signs of controlling Markus - predicting more losses in to next year. Sam has next level aspirations with never a chance to show his stuff. Markus returned to try to bolster his NBA worth - my prediction is he will be a worse ball hog next year!
Wojo has always been a terrible game coach. Early with Rousey, Markus, Rhinehardt and Sam, MU had to score 90 points to win a game. When opponents figured us out, usually we would blow double digit half time leads to double digit second half losses. Once they figured out how to stop Markus, Wojo had no answer. One pro scout said Markus is a great shootder with terrible shot selection. He had more turnovers than assists - poor defender. Wojo made promise to Sam he never even tried to keep. We know the Hausers. Quality family. Parents did not make decision. Sam did. I had lunch with Dave Hauser and Jack Bennett last Friday. He reported that Sam was in a very bad place. They were hoping Markus would leave - and no chance Wojo would rein him in. What an idiot.”
Sheesh. I can see this if it’s true. Sad.
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"Sam has next level aspirations with never a chance to show his stuff."
Great post and helpful. But Sam has had plenty of chances to "show his stuff". I just don't see how sitting out a year and then playing a year for the Badgers is going to help his aspirations. Still, if half of this is true, makes Wojo look pretty bad. I still get the feeling...Boo hoo he doesn't pass me the ball.
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"Sam has next level aspirations with never a chance to show his stuff."
Great post and helpful. But Sam has had plenty of chances to "show his stuff". I just don't see how sitting out a year and then playing a year for the Badgers is going to help his aspirations. Still, if half of this is true, makes Wojo look pretty bad. I still get the feeling...Boo hoo he doesn't pass me the ball.
He will be another year older on top of being a 5th year senior. That makes no sense in today’s world of what have you done lately. I really hate that view, but it’s reality.
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Guys.....
More fodder....
Inside scoop from someone who knows Hauser’s parents:
“We were so hoping Markus would leave. He'd discovered nobody NBA wanted. Arrogant announcement "Dear Marquette, I'm back" was the straw. Sam & Joey are not used to losing. 3 Large School state championships. Real problems started just before losing streak. Wojo called plays for Sam late in games. Markus ignored them and took shots himself. Meeting called. Wojo made promises, but never kept - Markus just kept doing what he wanted. Villanova game in Philly - we were up while Markus sat. He returned and took poor shots that cost us the game. Failing to win just two games to clinch the Big East with Markus continuing to hog and free lance. He and Wojo are responsible for collapse. Sam lost confidence in Wojo and saw no signs of controlling Markus - predicting more losses in to next year. Sam has next level aspirations with never a chance to show his stuff. Markus returned to try to bolster his NBA worth - my prediction is he will be a worse ball hog next year!
Wojo has always been a terrible game coach. Early with Rousey, Markus, Rhinehardt and Sam, MU had to score 90 points to win a game. When opponents figured us out, usually we would blow double digit half time leads to double digit second half losses. Once they figured out how to stop Markus, Wojo had no answer. One pro scout said Markus is a great shootder with terrible shot selection. He had more turnovers than assists - poor defender. Wojo made promise to Sam he never even tried to keep. We know the Hausers. Quality family. Parents did not make decision. Sam did. I had lunch with Dave Hauser and Jack Bennett last Friday. He reported that Sam was in a very bad place. They were hoping Markus would leave - and no chance Wojo would rein him in. What an idiot.”
And there you have it. What other stuff is he hoping to show that he wasn’t getting the opportunity to here? Hoist 4-5 more threes a game? Learn how to dribble so he could initiate some offense other than backing down an undersized defender in the post? He has one NBA level skill and he was showing it plenty for teams to see and understand what he could do. Thinking that he’s got more than that is delusional.
Seems Markus wasn’t the only (or even the most) selfish guy on the team.
Edited to add: the more I read that, the angrier I get. Us losing those games is not just Wojo and Markus’ fault. I’m pretty sure Sam was out there, got a good amount of shots quite a few of which he bricked. Looking to blame everybody else for a failure in which they played a major role, even though they are “winners”. What a bunch of hot garbage.
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Guys.....
More fodder....
Inside scoop from someone who knows Hauser’s parents:
“We were so hoping Markus would leave. He'd discovered nobody NBA wanted. Arrogant announcement "Dear Marquette, I'm back" was the straw. Sam & Joey are not used to losing. 3 Large School state championships. Real problems started just before losing streak. Wojo called plays for Sam late in games. Markus ignored them and took shots himself. Meeting called. Wojo made promises, but never kept - Markus just kept doing what he wanted. Villanova game in Philly - we were up while Markus sat. He returned and took poor shots that cost us the game. Failing to win just two games to clinch the Big East with Markus continuing to hog and free lance. He and Wojo are responsible for collapse. Sam lost confidence in Wojo and saw no signs of controlling Markus - predicting more losses in to next year. Sam has next level aspirations with never a chance to show his stuff. Markus returned to try to bolster his NBA worth - my prediction is he will be a worse ball hog next year!
Wojo has always been a terrible game coach. Early with Rousey, Markus, Rhinehardt and Sam, MU had to score 90 points to win a game. When opponents figured us out, usually we would blow double digit half time leads to double digit second half losses. Once they figured out how to stop Markus, Wojo had no answer. One pro scout said Markus is a great shootder with terrible shot selection. He had more turnovers than assists - poor defender. Wojo made promise to Sam he never even tried to keep. We know the Hausers. Quality family. Parents did not make decision. Sam did. I had lunch with Dave Hauser and Jack Bennett last Friday. He reported that Sam was in a very bad place. They were hoping Markus would leave - and no chance Wojo would rein him in. What an idiot.”
If true (I believe it is). Wojo is a f*ckin clown.
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Guys.....
More fodder....
Inside scoop from someone who knows Hauser’s parents:
“We were so hoping Markus would leave. He'd discovered nobody NBA wanted. Arrogant announcement "Dear Marquette, I'm back" was the straw. Sam & Joey are not used to losing. 3 Large School state championships. Real problems started just before losing streak. Wojo called plays for Sam late in games. Markus ignored them and took shots himself. Meeting called. Wojo made promises, but never kept - Markus just kept doing what he wanted. Villanova game in Philly - we were up while Markus sat. He returned and took poor shots that cost us the game. Failing to win just two games to clinch the Big East with Markus continuing to hog and free lance. He and Wojo are responsible for collapse. Sam lost confidence in Wojo and saw no signs of controlling Markus - predicting more losses in to next year. Sam has next level aspirations with never a chance to show his stuff. Markus returned to try to bolster his NBA worth - my prediction is he will be a worse ball hog next year!
Wojo has always been a terrible game coach. Early with Rousey, Markus, Rhinehardt and Sam, MU had to score 90 points to win a game. When opponents figured us out, usually we would blow double digit half time leads to double digit second half losses. Once they figured out how to stop Markus, Wojo had no answer. One pro scout said Markus is a great shootder with terrible shot selection. He had more turnovers than assists - poor defender. Wojo made promise to Sam he never even tried to keep. We know the Hausers. Quality family. Parents did not make decision. Sam did. I had lunch with Dave Hauser and Jack Bennett last Friday. He reported that Sam was in a very bad place. They were hoping Markus would leave - and no chance Wojo would rein him in. What an idiot.”
I think we need to accept that this will forever be a Rashomon type of story, with Markus, Wojo, and Sam all telling different versions. No matter who you believe, Wojo comes out looking bad, either for not reigning in Markus, or not hearing out Sam and the rest of the team, or not managing egos properly.
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Coach gives star player star treatment. A teammate is mad because he doesn't get more of a chance to show his stuff. Probably only happened a handful of times in the history of organized basketball.
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Guys.....
More fodder....
Inside scoop from someone who knows Hauser’s parents:
“We were so hoping Markus would leave. He'd discovered nobody NBA wanted. Arrogant announcement "Dear Marquette, I'm back" was the straw. Sam & Joey are not used to losing. 3 Large School state championships. Real problems started just before losing streak. Wojo called plays for Sam late in games. Markus ignored them and took shots himself. Meeting called. Wojo made promises, but never kept - Markus just kept doing what he wanted. Villanova game in Philly - we were up while Markus sat. He returned and took poor shots that cost us the game. Failing to win just two games to clinch the Big East with Markus continuing to hog and free lance. He and Wojo are responsible for collapse. Sam lost confidence in Wojo and saw no signs of controlling Markus - predicting more losses in to next year. Sam has next level aspirations with never a chance to show his stuff. Markus returned to try to bolster his NBA worth - my prediction is he will be a worse ball hog next year!
Wojo has always been a terrible game coach. Early with Rousey, Markus, Rhinehardt and Sam, MU had to score 90 points to win a game. When opponents figured us out, usually we would blow double digit half time leads to double digit second half losses. Once they figured out how to stop Markus, Wojo had no answer. One pro scout said Markus is a great shootder with terrible shot selection. He had more turnovers than assists - poor defender. Wojo made promise to Sam he never even tried to keep. We know the Hausers. Quality family. Parents did not make decision. Sam did. I had lunch with Dave Hauser and Jack Bennett last Friday. He reported that Sam was in a very bad place. They were hoping Markus would leave - and no chance Wojo would rein him in. What an idiot.”
That letter annoys me. Yeah I think Wojo really screwed this up but that letter reeks of entitlement. I don’t think that’s a great look for the Hauser’s either. What a sh*t show.
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Yup. Letter is for sure smug. Entitled. What have you. Fact is better players step up. Sam had plenty of looks. No PG is what killed us. Hausers have about as much nba credibility as markus does at this point.
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Missing all those shots that Sammy Splash made down the stretch to warrant his arrogance.
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Guys.....
More fodder....
Inside scoop from someone who knows Hauser’s parents:
“We were so hoping Markus would leave. He'd discovered nobody NBA wanted. Arrogant announcement "Dear Marquette, I'm back" was the straw. Sam & Joey are not used to losing. 3 Large School state championships. Real problems started just before losing streak. Wojo called plays for Sam late in games. Markus ignored them and took shots himself. Meeting called. Wojo made promises, but never kept - Markus just kept doing what he wanted. Villanova game in Philly - we were up while Markus sat. He returned and took poor shots that cost us the game. Failing to win just two games to clinch the Big East with Markus continuing to hog and free lance. He and Wojo are responsible for collapse. Sam lost confidence in Wojo and saw no signs of controlling Markus - predicting more losses in to next year. Sam has next level aspirations with never a chance to show his stuff. Markus returned to try to bolster his NBA worth - my prediction is he will be a worse ball hog next year!
Wojo has always been a terrible game coach. Early with Rousey, Markus, Rhinehardt and Sam, MU had to score 90 points to win a game. When opponents figured us out, usually we would blow double digit half time leads to double digit second half losses. Once they figured out how to stop Markus, Wojo had no answer. One pro scout said Markus is a great shootder with terrible shot selection. He had more turnovers than assists - poor defender. Wojo made promise to Sam he never even tried to keep. We know the Hausers. Quality family. Parents did not make decision. Sam did. I had lunch with Dave Hauser and Jack Bennett last Friday. He reported that Sam was in a very bad place. They were hoping Markus would leave - and no chance Wojo would rein him in. What an idiot.”
OK, its a scooper quoting a guy who had lunch with the Dad of the guy who we're passing judgement on because of this paragraph that has a decided slant to it. Maybe we need to be careful here.....remember it started with "its a scooper..." ::)
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Guys.....
More fodder....
Inside scoop from someone who knows Hauser’s parents:
“We were so hoping Markus would leave. He'd discovered nobody NBA wanted. Arrogant announcement "Dear Marquette, I'm back" was the straw. Sam & Joey are not used to losing. 3 Large School state championships. Real problems started just before losing streak. Wojo called plays for Sam late in games. Markus ignored them and took shots himself. Meeting called. Wojo made promises, but never kept - Markus just kept doing what he wanted. Villanova game in Philly - we were up while Markus sat. He returned and took poor shots that cost us the game. Failing to win just two games to clinch the Big East with Markus continuing to hog and free lance. He and Wojo are responsible for collapse. Sam lost confidence in Wojo and saw no signs of controlling Markus - predicting more losses in to next year. Sam has next level aspirations with never a chance to show his stuff. Markus returned to try to bolster his NBA worth - my prediction is he will be a worse ball hog next year!
Wojo has always been a terrible game coach. Early with Rousey, Markus, Rhinehardt and Sam, MU had to score 90 points to win a game. When opponents figured us out, usually we would blow double digit half time leads to double digit second half losses. Once they figured out how to stop Markus, Wojo had no answer. One pro scout said Markus is a great shootder with terrible shot selection. He had more turnovers than assists - poor defender. Wojo made promise to Sam he never even tried to keep. We know the Hausers. Quality family. Parents did not make decision. Sam did. I had lunch with Dave Hauser and Jack Bennett last Friday. He reported that Sam was in a very bad place. They were hoping Markus would leave - and no chance Wojo would rein him in. What an idiot.”
So, you just kind of outed your source to the Hauser's, probably should have left the lunch last Friday part out.
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That letter annoys me. Yeah I think Wojo really screwed this up but that letter reeks of entitlement. I don’t think that’s a great look for the Hauser’s either. What a sh*t show.
I think it reeks of last ditch desperation. All other options has been exhausted. And let’s not forget this letter wasn’t just from the Hausers so if it was entitlement that applies to all involved several of whom also considered transferring.
Wojo’s a lame duck dead man walking it would appear.
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Yup. Letter is for sure smug. Entitled. What have you. Fact is better players step up. Sam had plenty of looks. No PG is what killed us. Hausers have about as much nba credibility as markus does at this point.
Sort of matches Wojos coaching credibility
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I think it reeks of last ditch desperation. All other options has been exhausted. And let’s not forget this letter wasn’t just from the Hausers so if it was entitlement that applies to all involved several of whom also considered transferring.
Wojo’s a lame duck dead man walking it would appear.
I meant the comments by the friends of the parents. That doesn't look good.
But I agree that Wojo, unless he performs as we expected a week ago, is a dead man walking.
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A lot of people talking about how Howard got all the attention.
I remember atleast 4-5 articles just about the hauser brothers.
I also remember a 3-4 min special on Fox, National TV, about the hauser brothers.
I’m sorry it didn’t work out. It’s a bummer and saddening. But clearly there are many different facets to this.
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So, allegedly this is all on Sam, and not Joey now? We can all agree Markus took some ill advised shots, which he was making earlier in the year. Sam wasn't exactly lighting it up the last third of the season either.
Last 4 losses: Markus 27/78, Sam 24/62...not that big of a difference. If the rumors were true that Sam was pissed after the Buffalo game, WOW.
And by the way, the team new Markus was coming back well before the banquet. Apparently the Hauser parents didnt.
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That letter annoys me. Yeah I think Wojo really screwed this up but that letter reeks of entitlement. I don’t think that’s a great look for the Hauser’s either. What a sh*t show.
Honestly, if it was just a "hey coach, we want this addressed and the team is on board" thing, more a call for sharing the ball rather than anything accusatory, I don't think it's a terrible thing. I'm more disappointed that the existence of that letter was posted on 247 and here without the substance. It's the rampant speculation that has led to the feelings of entitlement and a divided "A vs B" locker room.
Reports of the letter were making the rounds by Sunday afternoon, before any of this was much in the public sphere. It should've stayed there. The only thing accomplished by letting it get out is sowing discord among the fans and possibly in the locker room next year.
This situation sucks. We're making it worse.
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This situation sucks. We're making it worse.
So Marquette fans shouldn't want to talk about this crazy shyteshow in an interwebs forum set up specifically to discuss crap that only Marquette fans care (too much) about?
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So, allegedly this is all on Sam, and not Joey now? We can all agree Markus took some ill advised shots, which he was making earlier in the year. Sam wasn't exactly lighting it up the last third of the season either.
Last 4 losses: Markus 27/78, Sam 24/62...not that big of a difference. If the rumors were true that Sam was pissed after the Buffalo game, WOW.
And by the way, the team new Markus was coming back well before the banquet. Apparently the Hauser parents didnt.
To quote Henry Sugar's excellent analysis:
"Markus' usage the final seven games was 41%. He was taking 2x the shots of an average player.
His ORtg during this time that he was taking 2x the shots of an average player was 94, which is well below a quality player.
MU finished 1-6 in those games. Markus was a ballhog and selfish player and it cost MU the season."
Further, IIRC, in those last 7 games Sam had one game with an ORTG below 100, and Markus had only one above 100.
IF it is also true that Markus was disregarding called plays and freelancing, the problem becomes evident.
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To quote Henry Sugar's excellent analysis:
"Markus' usage the final seven games was 41%. He was taking 2x the shots of an average player.
His ORtg during this time that he was taking 2x the shots of an average player was 94, which is well below a quality player.
MU finished 1-6 in those games. Markus was a ballhog and selfish player and it cost MU the season."
Further, IIRC, in those last 7 games Sam had one game with an ORTG below 100, and Markus had only one above 100.
IF it is also true that Markus was disregarding called plays and freelancing, the problem becomes evident.
Nailed it, Smitty
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So Marquette fans shouldn't want to talk about this crazy shyteshow in an interwebs forum set up specifically to discuss crap that only Marquette fans care (too much) about?
I'm referring specifically to the letter, which is all speculation without substance. Without anyone here having seen it, it's been used to go after virtually everyone involved with the team from the coaching staff to the Hausers to Howard to the rest of the players. It's basically just a straw man for anti-everyone hot takes.
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I'm referring specifically to the letter, which is all speculation without substance. Without anyone here having seen it, it's been used to go after virtually everyone involved with the team from the coaching staff to the Hausers to Howard to the rest of the players. It's basically just a straw man for anti-everyone hot takes.
It's hard to disagree with this, brewski. Thanks for expounding on your thoughts.
But then again, mindless, baseless speculation has been a Scoop staple for years. Centuries, even.
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I'm referring specifically to the letter, which is all speculation without substance. Without anyone here having seen it, it's been used to go after virtually everyone involved with the team from the coaching staff to the Hausers to Howard to the rest of the players. It's basically just a straw man for anti-everyone hot takes.
The speculation comes from the dude on the Scout board. He claimed BACK IN MARCH that there was a letter.
Back in March, nobody other than maybe Jon Keefe, was claiming that there was a rift between Wojo and the Hausers.
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The speculation comes from the dude on the Scout board. He claimed BACK IN MARCH that there was a letter.
Back in March, nobody other than maybe Jon Keefe, was claiming that there was a rift between Wojo and the Hausers.
The totality of the evidence of said letter is a post from an anonymous person on the interwebs. And even if there were a letter - and 'm not saying there is or is not - we have absolutely no idea of what the letter contained.
Which makes it all the more hilarious that we have Scoopers today who didn't know about the letter 24 hours ago now writing detailed descriptions of what was written therein.
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Which makes it all the more hilarious that we have Scoopers today who didn't know about the letter 24 hours ago now writing detailed descriptions of what was written therein.
Bingo!
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Bingo!
Haha true
The ability of the internet to run with any rumor
I still call the whole letter as BS. No one sends a letter 😂
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To quote Henry Sugar's excellent analysis:
"Markus' usage the final seven games was 41%. He was taking 2x the shots of an average player.
His ORtg during this time that he was taking 2x the shots of an average player was 94, which is well below a quality player.
MU finished 1-6 in those games. Markus was a ballhog and selfish player and it cost MU the season."
Further, IIRC, in those last 7 games Sam had one game with an ORTG below 100, and Markus had only one above 100.
IF it is also true that Markus was disregarding called plays and freelancing, the problem becomes evident.
markus did not.cost them the season. Markus got them to that position. There is plenty of blame to go around.
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To quote Henry Sugar's excellent analysis:
"Markus' usage the final seven games was 41%. He was taking 2x the shots of an average player.
His ORtg during this time that he was taking 2x the shots of an average player was 94, which is well below a quality player.
MU finished 1-6 in those games. Markus was a ballhog and selfish player and it cost MU the season."
Further, IIRC, in those last 7 games Sam had one game with an ORTG below 100, and Markus had only one above 100.
IF it is also true that Markus was disregarding called plays and freelancing, the problem becomes evident.
I've seen comments about Sam's vs. Markus's ORTG a few times now. I think that it's important to remind people that it's efficiency stats like ORTG are generally skewed higher/lower with less usage, while also favoring players who play around the rim more often. I mean, Matt Heldt had the highest ORTG in NCAA basketball in 2017-18. I love Matt, but that's just insane. To the same point, Boban Marjanovic had the highest offensive efficiency in the NBA for a good part of the season as well.
Beginning with the Nova game (2/27) and going 1-6 the rest of the way, Markus had a usage rate of 40.8 - good for 3rd in the NCAA - while sporting an abysmal ORTG of 97.5.
During the same timeframe, Joey - on 19.6 usage (second on the team) - had an even lower ORTG of 91.5 (!!). Sam was great, and had a 112 ORTG to show for it, but only on 17.7 usage. His usage was lower than Markus, Joey, and ED MORROW. Ed did great work at the end of the season, but he should not have a higher usage that Sam.
This could be a function of Sam not getting the ball enough (it's not) or getting keyed on more by defenses (probably, yes), but we do need to remember that if he was operating at 40.8 usage there's no way his ORTG is much higher than Howard's. I don't even want to think about Joey's ORTG if his usage was 40.8 either.
Bottomline, there are very few players who should be using that many possessions, and Markus needs to realize the days he doesn't have "it" and distribute the ball more. However, you cannot claim that Markus's high usage ruined this season down the stretch. There are a plethora of factors that go into it, including subpar offense by multiple key players and insanely high turnover rates.
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markus did not.cost them the season. Markus got them to that position. There is plenty of blame to go around.
Can't blame your second team all american for this
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At the end of the day, does it really matter who takes what percent of the blame?
It seems more important to:
1. Expect Wojo to fix the culture and our roster immediately to salvage next season and beyond or be shown the door?
2. Support our All-American guard returning for his senior year...one in which he will leave as our all time leading scorer?
3. Wish the Hausers well as they pursue their own dreams as individuals and a family?
4. Look forward to the growth and development of the remaining roster?
5. Stop bickering about who killed whom?
We are Marquette!
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At the end of the day, does it really matter who takes what percent of the blame?
It seems more important to:
1. Expect Wojo to fix the culture and our roster immediately to salvage next season and beyond or be shown the door?
2. Support our All-American guard returning for his senior year...one in which he will leave as our all time leading scorer?
3. Wish the Hausers well as they pursue their own dreams as individuals and a family?
4. Look forward to the growth and development of the remaining roster?
5. Stop bickering about who killed whom?
We are Marquette!
Works for me!
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At the end of the day, does it really matter who takes what percent of the blame?
It seems more important to:
1. Expect Wojo to fix the culture and our roster immediately to salvage next season and beyond or be shown the door?
2. Support our All-American guard returning for his senior year...one in which he will leave as our all time leading scorer?
3. Wish the Hausers well as they pursue their own dreams as individuals and a family?
4. Look forward to the growth and development of the remaining roster?
5. Stop bickering about who killed whom?
We are Marquette!
We need more of this.
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This situation sucks. We're making it worse.
Scoop is making it worse???
You clearly have an inflated view of the role, influence, and relevance of fan message boards.
During a deployment to A Stan I corresponded with Rosiak who described Dodd's board and Scoop as 'fewer than 50 people per site who were overly obsessed with Marquette basketball and who took things far too seriously and, worse, far too personally.' Rosiak told me he checked in on the MU fan sites to get a pulse on topic but rarely read the content as it was mostly nonsense.
If you think that MU Scoop or Dodds board (or any of the various sites focused on Michigan, Notre Dame, Ohio State, etc...) have any relevance to the teams in question you are delusional.
Take it from a Renaissance Man as fact.
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Scoop is making it worse???
You clearly have an inflated view of the role, influence, and relevance of fan message boards.
During a deployment to A Stan I corresponded with Rosiak who described Dodd's board and Scoop as 'fewer than 50 people per site who were overly obsessed with Marquette basketball and who took things far too seriously and, worse, far too personally.' Rosiak told me he checked in on the MU fan sites to get a pulse on topic but rarely read the content as it was mostly nonsense.
If you think that MU Scoop or Dodds board (or any of the various sites focused on Michigan, Notre Dame, Ohio State, etc...) have any relevance to the teams in question you are delusional.
Take it from a Renaissance Man as fact.
Scoop is powerless. But the invisible hand of the underboard and the men of the meat summit should not be questioned!
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At the end of the day, does it really matter who takes what percent of the blame?
It seems more important to:
1. Expect Wojo to fix the culture and our roster immediately to salvage next season and beyond or be shown the door?
2. Support our All-American guard returning for his senior year...one in which he will leave as our all time leading scorer?
3. Wish the Hausers well as they pursue their own dreams as individuals and a family?
4. Look forward to the growth and development of the remaining roster?
5. Stop bickering about who killed whom?
We are Marquette!
I love good posts from someone with a 'Lanche related screen name!
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I love good posts from someone with a 'Lanche related screen name!
Thanks Good Sir. If only we could hold a scoop summit at the Lanche...grab a .50 cent bottle of red,white and blue...then smash the empty bottle on the floor while enjoying the traditional beer slides...why...that could solve a lot!
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Thanks Good Sir. If only we could hold a scoop summit at the Lanche...grab a .50 cent bottle of red,white and blue...then smash the empty bottle on the floor while enjoying the traditional beer slides...why...that could solve a lot!
Been there, done that a few times, at least with the bottles. And did it when they were 50 cents (and 40 and 45 cents also).
The slides were a bit after I left.
We'd need a good name for the summit. Meat summit is taken. Beer summit is taken. Melt the Ice summit is a little cumbersome. Naked summit is not in the cards at my age.
There's got to be a good one out there.
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Scoop is powerless. But the invisible hand of the underboard and the men of the meat summit should not be questioned!
Aggie
The Underboard knows all, sees all, but doesn't share with all.
Underboarders knew of Megan Duffy, the planned sneak attack on Pearl Harbor, Buzz Williams' toilet peculiarities, Truman defeats Dewey, We Aren't With Her, the location of Jimmy Hoffa, and Hauser dissatisfaction well before the general population.
Meat Summiteering is a privilege.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ggiIGeiweHL7MmLg2q/giphy.gif)
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Eye don't wanna cee Sam's stuff, hey?
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Been there, done that a few times, at least with the bottles. And did it when they were 50 cents (and 40 and 45 cents also).
The slides were a bit after I left.
We'd need a good name for the summit. Meat summit is taken. Beer summit is taken. Melt the Ice summit is a little cumbersome. Naked summit is not in the cards at my age.
There's got to be a good one out there.
Glass Shard Summit?
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At the end of the day, does it really matter who takes what percent of the blame?
It seems more important to:
1. Expect Wojo to fix the culture and our roster immediately to salvage next season and beyond or be shown the door?
2. Support our All-American guard returning for his senior year...one in which he will leave as our all time leading scorer?
3. Wish the Hausers well as they pursue their own dreams as individuals and a family?
4. Look forward to the growth and development of the remaining roster?
5. Stop bickering about who killed whom?
We are Marquette!
It's a holiday weekend. This works for me too.
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Thanks Good Sir. If only we could hold a scoop summit at the Lanche...grab a .50 cent bottle of red,white and blue...then smash the empty bottle on the floor while enjoying the traditional beer slides...why...that could solve a lot!
35 cents back in my day, youngster.
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This could be a function of Sam not getting the ball enough (it's not) or getting keyed on more by defenses (probably, yes), but we do need to remember that if he was operating at 40.8 usage there's no way his ORTG is much higher than Howard's. I don't even want to think about Joey's ORTG if his usage was 40.8 either.
I understand your statistical point, but the fact that Markus' usage was 40.8% was due solely to Markus. He was the one with the ball in his hands on every possession. I'd argue that Sam, even if he had been tasked at being the point forward, would never have had a usage anywhere in that vicinity.
If Markus' ORTG was low because of extraordinary high usage, that is 100% on Markus (well, and Wojo of course). So to argue that Sam's ORTG would have been lower at that level of usage misses the fact he would never have been at 40.8 to start with. Yet even as his effectiveness was tanking, Markus continued to hoist up a large number of bad shots. When you are 1-15 in the game and you insist on calling your own number again for the last shot, there's a problem.
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I understand your statistical point, but the fact that Markus' usage was 40.8% was due solely to Markus. He was the one with the ball in his hands on every possession. I'd argue that Sam, even if he had been tasked at being the point forward, would never have had a usage anywhere in that vicinity.
If Markus' ORTG was low because of extraordinary high usage, that is 100% on Markus (well, and Wojo of course). So to argue that Sam's ORTG would have been lower at that level of usage misses the fact he would never have been at 40.8 to start with. Yet even as his effectiveness was tanking, Markus continued to hoist up a large number of bad shots. When you are 1-15 in the game and you insist on calling your own number again for the last shot, there's a problem.
He was tasked with that in the win @ Georgetown, and his usage rate was 34%, highest of the season and well above his 19% season average
I would argue Sam probably should have played point forward this season
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At the end of the day, does it really matter who takes what percent of the blame?
It seems more important to:
1. Expect Wojo to fix the culture and our roster immediately to salvage next season and beyond or be shown the door?
2. Support our All-American guard returning for his senior year...one in which he will leave as our all time leading scorer?
3. Wish the Hausers well as they pursue their own dreams as individuals and a family?
4. Look forward to the growth and development of the remaining roster?
5. Stop bickering about who killed whom?
We are Marquette!
Stealing Katie's thoughts, that sounds like a Mission Statement for next Season.
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35 cents back in my day, youngster.
I was there from 84-88....you must have drank a lot of beer just prior to my arrival for that level of inflation on a red white and blue grenade bottle over a couple of years! In honor of the wonderful Grateful Dead Nights held at the lanche' on Sunday evenings (at least in my time) how about the "Marquette Basketball...what a long strange trip its been summit?"
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anybody else get the feeling that wojo has his own flushing issues. maybe on private planes? hilarious the irony of a guy who had to deactivate his insta because he was called out on a marquette basketball forum for embarrassing comments is taking shots at wojo for deactivating his twitter. wonder how many followers each of you have. my guess would be over 5K for wojo compared to about 100 for our pilot. so scared away by 5K or scared away by a hundred. but wojos soft and the pilot is very manly.
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He was tasked with that in the win @ Georgetown, and his usage rate was 34%, highest of the season and well above his 19% season average
I would argue Sam probably should have played point forward this season
Apples to pistachios. Sam's usage that game came in the nearly complete absence of Markus, while Markus racked his up while Sam was on the court (frequently waving his hands for the ball).
Having Sam with the ball in his hands more often, whether he brought up the court or simply initiated the offense, would have been a good idea IMO.
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I was there from 84-88....you must have drank a lot of beer just prior to my arrival for that level of inflation on a red white and blue grenade bottle over a couple of years! In honor of the wonderful Grateful Dead Nights held at the lanche' on Sunday evenings (at least in my time) how about the "Marquette Basketball...what a long strange trip its been summit?"
Am I remembering correctly that late in our 84-88 shared time there, they quit selling bottle is PBR because the place was held up and the patrons made to lay on the floor in a miasma of broken glass and bad beer? Or has time played tricks with my memories again?
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Am I remembering correctly that late in our 84-88 shared time there, they quit selling bottle is PBR because the place was held up and the patrons made to lay on the floor in a miasma of broken glass and bad beer? Or has time played tricks with my memories again?
You are correct, Tower! By our senior year they only sold plastic cups and tap beer...on the "upside" they added Blatz Dark to the 50 cent menu. That is when the beer slides became a thing with no glass on the floor...although I seem to remember hazily that bottles still were shattered on the floor now and then...maybe they still had an assortment of bottled beer but just did not sell them on the weekends or at busy times with the warriors out in full force. They changed because of that hold up incident. I was there one evening and the owner/bartender pulled a gun on a patron from the surrounding neighborhood who snuck in late at night and tried to buy from the takeout are... without buying...I miss those days...and am happy to be alive.
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He was tasked with that in the win @ Georgetown, and his usage rate was 34%, highest of the season and well above his 19% season average
I would argue Sam probably should have played point forward this season
Apples to pistachios. Sam's usage that game came in the nearly complete absence of Markus, while Markus racked his up while Sam was on the court (frequently waving his hands for the ball).
Having Sam with the ball in his hands more often, whether he brought up the court or simply initiated the offense, would have been a good idea IMO.
Sam was obviously outstanding in that game and carried us to a win. I wouldn't have minded if he had the ball in his hands more. He also had 1 assist that game with the 34% usage rate. He had trouble beating guys off the dribble all season and was not a creator for others.
Granted, it's one game and a small sample size but let's not carried away with Sam as a point forward.
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Sam was obviously outstanding in that game and carried us to a win. I wouldn't have minded if he had the ball in his hands more. He also had 1 assist that game with the 34% usage rate. He had trouble beating guys off the dribble all season and was not a creator for others.
Granted, it's one game and a small sample size but let's not carried away with Sam as a point forward.
Not to mention it was an entirely unscouted look and undoubtedly teams would’ve pressured him much more, thus making him work much harder, if that became a regular strategy. And given that Sam at times throughout his career has seemed to wear down, that would not have helped.
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Not to mention it was an entirely unscouted look and undoubtedly teams would’ve pressured him much more, thus making him work much harder, if that became a regular strategy. And given that Sam at times throughout his career has seemed to wear down, that would not have helped.
Good point.
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Am I remembering correctly that late in our 84-88 shared time there, they quit selling bottle is PBR because the place was held up and the patrons made to lay on the floor in a miasma of broken glass and bad beer? Or has time played tricks with my memories again?
Your use of the word “patrons” is delicious.
Da Lanche may be more hallowed ground than Augusta National itself!
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You are correct, Tower! By our senior year they only sold plastic cups and tap beer...on the "upside" they added Blatz Dark to the 50 cent menu. That is when the beer slides became a thing with no glass on the floor...although I seem to remember hazily that bottles still were shattered on the floor now and then...maybe they still had an assortment of bottled beer but just did not sell them on the weekends or at busy times with the warriors out in full force. They changed because of that hold up incident. I was there one evening and the owner/bartender pulled a gun on a patron from the surrounding neighborhood who snuck in late at night and tried to buy from the takeout are... without buying...I miss those days...and am happy to be alive.
They tried switching from bottles to plastics cups in the 83 timeframe, and it went over like a lead balloon. It lasted about two weeks and they switched back since they were losing their customers.
After that they started kicking out bottle breakers. I didn't mind, as I once had a glass shard go through my shoe and into my foot. Luckily it only broke the skin and didn't cause any other damage, but I curtailed bottle breaking after that.
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Your use of the word “patrons” is delicious.
Da Lanche may be more hallowed ground than Augusta National itself!
To some, it probably is. A sepia filtered memory of a time with more friends and fewer responsibilities and consequences.
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They tried switching from bottles to plastics cups in the 83 timeframe, and it went over like a lead balloon. It lasted about two weeks and they switched back since they were losing their customers.
After that they started kicking out bottle breakers. I didn't mind, as I once had a glass shard go through my shoe and into my foot. Luckily it only broke the skin and didn't cause any other damage, but I curtailed bottle breaking after that.
Was there 82-86 and loved the 'Lanche, but never really did understand the whole bottle breaking thing from a liability standpoint. Kinda scary to be honest, and yet it was all the rage.... Loved the prices though and the pool table. Doc (not Rivers, a friend of mine nicknamed Doc) and I used to clean up on the pool table....
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Was there 82-86 and loved the 'Lanche, but never really did understand the whole bottle breaking thing from a liability standpoint. Kinda scary to be honest, and yet it was all the rage.... Loved the prices though and the pool table. Doc (not Rivers, a friend of mine nicknamed Doc) and I used to clean up on the pool table....
I loved those pool tables. I was never good enough to play on the weekends, but a buddy and I would stop there most weeknights after a couple hours in the library to play pool, drink beer and gab with Mitch.
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Was there 82-86 and loved the 'Lanche, but never really did understand the whole bottle breaking thing from a liability standpoint.
What college kids are thinking of liability of drinking establishments?
When I was at MU, I didn't understand a lot of things.
Including most of the stuff my profs were teaching.
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Scoop is making it worse???
You clearly have an inflated view of the role, influence, and relevance of fan message boards.
During a deployment to A Stan I corresponded with Rosiak who described Dodd's board and Scoop as 'fewer than 50 people per site who were overly obsessed with Marquette basketball and who took things far too seriously and, worse, far too personally.' Rosiak told me he checked in on the MU fan sites to get a pulse on topic but rarely read the content as it was mostly nonsense.
If you think that MU Scoop or Dodds board (or any of the various sites focused on Michigan, Notre Dame, Ohio State, etc...) have any relevance to the teams in question you are delusional.
Take it from a Renaissance Man as fact.
Not saying that there's any real influence (apart from the weird Dawson's family being on here time) but wow really makes you think how long ago Rosiak was when he'd have described this forum as fewer than 50 people. Though Dodd's might be fewer than 20 at this point
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Galway,
If I thought this site had anything to do with the success of MU ball I would be wearing a cheerleader outfit. Scoop is a place that 25-30 folks vent or celebrate, and a couple hundred who chime in. This site has zero impact, positive or negative on the program.
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Galway,
If I thought this site had anything to do with the success of MU ball I would be wearing a cheerleader outfit. Scoop is a place that 25-30 folks vent or celebrate, and a couple hundred who chime in. This site has zero impact, positive or negative on the program.
I'm curious what the daily activity chart is like on scoop because I feel like people that were chiming in have become regular over the years. But again i definitely agree it doesn't have any impact (outside of Dawson's cousin and dad being on here).
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Galway,
As I like to say, use the eye test. If a regular goes missing for a few days I always take note. Whenever something big pops, you see some old names on here or a slew of new ones. I think 25-30 is about right for folks that spend too much time on scoop.
On a side bar, over time I have learned folks sleep pattern, time zones and preferred posting time. In addition, can usually tell who has had a cocktail or two before posting.
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Message boards are big with player families. Not sure about MU, but I know for sure at other places.
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Message boards are big with player families. Not sure about MU, but I know for sure at other places.
Caveat emptor.
Don't like what you might read on an interwebs fan site populated by anonymous people who might (and do) say anything? Don't read it.
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Message boards are big with player families. Not sure about MU, but I know for sure at other places.
An individual’s post on Dodds’ old board cost MU the oldest Zeller. Fact.
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An individual’s post on Dodds’ old board cost MU the oldest Zeller. Fact.
Then that Zeller is an idiot. One shouldn't be making life decisions on the basis of what is posted on a place like Dodds' board.
And I have heard that story and I wouldn't posit that as fact.
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again, ill ask again...the claim is that the hausers didn’t leave because of markus. the claim is the hausers didn’t leave because they wanted more shots. the claim is the hausers left because wojo’s inability to reign markus in caused them to lose faith in wojo’s coaching ability.
yet the hausers went to wojo and said its markus or its the hausers, you pick? why? if they lost faith in wojos ability to coach and it wasnt about their opportunities to showcase their skill set, wouldnt they be gone regardless? what does markus being around have to do with it? theyd find faith in wojos ability to coach without markus around?
THE MATH DOESNT ADD UP! if it has nothing to do with markus and their opportunities with him around theyre gone regardless of whether markus was back or not. which it has become evident is not the case. you cant have it both ways. it cant be they didnt care about their own attempts and it wasnt markus, but theyd be back if markus was gone.
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An individual’s post on Dodds’ old board cost MU the oldest Zeller. Fact.
Then he (or his Mommy/Daddy) was too weak-minded to be a Warrior. Glad the wussy went elsewhere.
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again, ill ask again...the claim is that the hausers didn’t leave because of markus. the claim is the hausers didn’t leave because they wanted more shots. the claim is the hausers left because wojo’s inability to reign markus in caused them to lose faith in wojo’s coaching ability.
yet the hausers went to wojo and said its markus or its the hausers, you pick? why? if they lost faith in wojos ability to coach and it wasnt about their opportunities to showcase their skill set, wouldnt they be gone regardless? what does markus being around have to do with it? theyd find faith in wojos ability to coach without markus around?
THE MATH DOESNT ADD UP! if it has nothing to do with markus and their opportunities with him around theyre gone regardless of whether markus was back or not. which it has become evident is not the case. you cant have it both ways. it cant be they didnt care about their own attempts and it wasnt markus, but theyd be back if markus was gone.
+1,000,000. It’s amazing that more cannot see this logical inconsistency.
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again, ill ask again...the claim is that the hausers didn’t leave because of markus. the claim is the hausers didn’t leave because they wanted more shots. the claim is the hausers left because wojo’s inability to reign markus in caused them to lose faith in wojo’s coaching ability.
yet the hausers went to wojo and said its markus or its the hausers, you pick? why? if they lost faith in wojos ability to coach and it wasnt about their opportunities to showcase their skill set, wouldnt they be gone regardless? what does markus being around have to do with it? theyd find faith in wojos ability to coach without markus around?
THE MATH DOESNT ADD UP! if it has nothing to do with markus and their opportunities with him around theyre gone regardless of whether markus was back or not. which it has become evident is not the case. you cant have it both ways. it cant be they didnt care about their own attempts and it wasnt markus, but theyd be back if markus was gone.
As one who has said dozens of times that Wojo has proven to be a bad CEO of this "corporation" due to his inability to manage egos (among other flaws), I nonetheless wonder about this, also.
If the problem was complete loss of trust in Wojo, and Wojo was going to still be at Marquette whether or not Markus stayed or went, why would Mommy and Daddy let their little boys stay to be coached by a guy they neither liked nor trusted? Makes no sense.
This is the kind of thing that reminds me that situations are rarely cut-and-dried, black-and-white, him-vs-him. There is nuance, which some in both the WOJO IS HORRIBLE and THE HAUSERS ARE SOFT camps seem to ignore. They've dug in, and they can dismiss, defend or deflect any point that doesn't confirm their biases.
Heck, some even refuse to admit they have biases, something every single human being on the planet has.
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I agree. It seems like maybe they were OK enough with Wojo’s abilities until Howard announced he was coming back.
So maybe Sam was OK with Wojo and the offense as long as there was a chance he was going to be the feature. His HS coach kind of said as much. Sam wanted to be able to show his stuff more for the next level. The NBA will find you if you’re good enough whether you’re the feature or nor. Look no further than Wesley M. and Dwight B. in recent MU history.
again, ill ask again...the claim is that the hausers didn’t leave because of markus. the claim is the hausers didn’t leave because they wanted more shots. the claim is the hausers left because wojo’s inability to reign markus in caused them to lose faith in wojo’s coaching ability.
yet the hausers went to wojo and said its markus or its the hausers, you pick? why? if they lost faith in wojos ability to coach and it wasnt about their opportunities to showcase their skill set, wouldnt they be gone regardless? what does markus being around have to do with it? theyd find faith in wojos ability to coach without markus around?
THE MATH DOESNT ADD UP! if it has nothing to do with markus and their opportunities with him around theyre gone regardless of whether markus was back or not. which it has become evident is not the case. you cant have it both ways. it cant be they didnt care about their own attempts and it wasnt markus, but theyd be back if markus was gone.
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again, ill ask again...the claim is that the hausers didn’t leave because of markus. the claim is the hausers didn’t leave because they wanted more shots. the claim is the hausers left because wojo’s inability to reign markus in caused them to lose faith in wojo’s coaching ability.
So people here report that the Hausers don't want to play with Markus. It has also been widely stated here that the Hausers didn't want to play with Herro.
So trying to look at it objectively here, what is the common denominator? Not wanting to play with someone who will be in the limelight or get more touches? That is the conclusion I see, but I admit it is from a limited amount of evidence.
Sam (and then Joey) was the man at SPASH. Did they expect the same at a high Division 1 school? They are both highly skilled basketball players, but with serious athletic limitations. They are complimentary players wherever they go (assuming it is a perennial power team).
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It could be that they thought Wojo had a blind spot for Markus that caused the serious issues. If Markus leaves, things could get better.
Maybe if it was only Wojo, they would be able to make it work and not sacrifice a year of eligibility/making money. They probably thought another year with Markus/Wojo would look like the end of last year.
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It could be that they thought Wojo had a blind spot for Markus that caused the serious issues. If Markus leaves, things could get better.
Maybe if it was only Wojo, they would be able to make it work and not sacrifice a year of eligibility/making money. They probably thought another year with Markus/Wojo would look like the end of last year.
I guess I would ask why it wouldn’t/couldn’t also look like the first 75% of last year, which was pretty damn good.
To me, it all comes down to them wanting to be the stars. That’s the only possible conclusion I get from all the evidence.
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I guess I would ask why it wouldn’t/couldn’t also look like the first 75% of last year, which was pretty damn good.
To me, it all comes down to them wanting to be the stars. That’s the only possible conclusion I get from all the evidence.
So, they should transfer to UW....Stevens Point.
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So, they should transfer to UW....Stevens Point.
Wherever. I don’t really care.
I have previously said it would be a mistake to got to UVA/ ACC.
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Then he (or his Mommy/Daddy) was too weak-minded to be a Warrior. Glad the wussy went elsewhere.
too lazy to look up where he did go, but where ever it was, i'm sure their message board was named kumbaya and filled love love love
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Then he (or his Mommy/Daddy) was too weak-minded to be a Warrior. Glad the wussy went elsewhere.
This is going to seem a little reducto ad absurdem, so I apologize in advance, but I would be careful with mindsets like this. In my past work, I have had to be the person who responds to a call because a college student hung themselves after being bullied online. I have had to attend a funeral of a different student who killed themselves after they had been repeatedly threatened and stalked online. I will never forget either of those experiences.
Now these students weren't killed because of cyberbullying. They had mental illnesses and the cyberbullying was a catalyst that exasperated those conditions. However, we often fall into the trap of thinking every one on the internet, including the players, the coaches, and our fellow scoopers are of sound mind and body. They are not. So if some one is hurt or offended by something someone says online, maybe they are wusses. Or maybe they are dealing with something that we don't know about. I'd just avoid being quick to judge.
Alright, I'm stepping off my soapbox now. Sorry.
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This is going to seem a little reducto ad absurdem, so I apologize in advance, but I would be careful with mindsets like this. In my past work, I have had to be the person who responds to a call because a college student hung themselves after being bullied online. I have had to attend a funeral of a different student who killed themselves after they had been repeatedly threatened and stalked online. I will never forget either of those experiences.
Now these students weren't killed because of cyberbullying. They had mental illnesses and the cyberbullying was a catalyst that exasperated those conditions. However, we often fall into the trap of thinking every one on the internet, including the players, the coaches, and our fellow scoopers are of sound mind and body. They are not. So if some one is hurt or offended by something someone says online, maybe they are wusses. Or maybe they are dealing with something that we don't know about. I'd just avoid being quick to judge.
Alright, I'm stepping off my soapbox now. Sorry.
Very Good Soapbox to be on. Thanks
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Then he (or his Mommy/Daddy) was too weak-minded to be a Warrior. Glad the wussy went elsewhere.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3Z11tOYEJ0ZmtepGai/giphy.gif)
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This is going to seem a little reducto ad absurdem, so I apologize in advance, but I would be careful with mindsets like this. In my past work, I have had to be the person who responds to a call because a college student hung themselves after being bullied online. I have had to attend a funeral of a different student who killed themselves after they had been repeatedly threatened and stalked online. I will never forget either of those experiences.
Now these students weren't killed because of cyberbullying. They had mental illnesses and the cyberbullying was a catalyst that exasperated those conditions. However, we often fall into the trap of thinking every one on the internet, including the players, the coaches, and our fellow scoopers are of sound mind and body. They are not. So if some one is hurt or offended by something someone says online, maybe they are wusses. Or maybe they are dealing with something that we don't know about. I'd just avoid being quick to judge.
Alright, I'm stepping off my soapbox now. Sorry.
Hmmm. You and I are usually pretty copacetic, but I dunno about this one. It's a fan chatroom. Fans say stoopid stuff. Steer clear of stoopid stuff if you don't want to see stoopid stuff.
But just to play along a little ... nobody here should have ever said, "Derrick is an offensive liability because he can't shoot," because Derrick might have read that and, if he suffered from depression, he might have killed himself?
Jeesh ... we'd better put Wojo on suicide watch!
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Hmmm. You and I are usually pretty copacetic, but I dunno about this one. It's a fan chatroom. Fans say stoopid stuff. Steer clear of stoopid stuff if you don't want to see stoopid stuff.
But just to play along a little ... nobody here should have ever said, "Derrick is an offensive liability because he can't shoot," because Derrick might have read that and, if he suffered from depression, he might have killed himself?
Jeesh ... we'd better put Wojo on suicide watch!
And I didn't say that you should stop commenting on Derrick's shooting. What I said was, if Derrick made it known that he found those posts hurtful, I wouldn't be so quick to denounce him as a wussy not worthy of being on our team.
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And I didn't say that you should stop commenting on Derrick's shooting. What I said was, if Derrick made it known that he found those posts hurtful, I wouldn't be so quick to denounce him as a wussy not worthy of being on our team.
i understand your concerns from your direct experiences. i also have, as many here i'm sure as well, experienced some very unfortunate situations including suicides of loved ones regarding depression and instability. BUT, to heed to every online instance of "hurtful" posts could end up being an online invite for either a form of censorship or an onslaught of more anonymous cyber-bullying. both of which have no place on any board, much less ours.
my hopes are that one who is suspect to "hurtful" situations has the necessary support controls available to him/her to either shield, censor or cope with day to day activities like say watching t.v., listening to the radio, etc etc. unfortunately, we cannot protect everyone from everything
regarding the hausers-they had to have been waiting for the markus response-staying or going. the timing of their announcement is very telling unless their intentions to transfer were already in motion. if markus goes pro, then rescinds, do the hausers still go? or was markus status on the team a non-factor? this is important for obvious reasons; markus vs wojo. i'm leaning wojo as i believe there have been others who have thought(or are thinking) about transfering as well...but wait...were the others who may have been thinking about transferring, thinking it was about the hausers, markus or wojo or some combination thereof . what a pile of shnit we have here
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And I didn't say that you should stop commenting on Derrick's shooting. What I said was, if Derrick made it known that he found those posts hurtful, I wouldn't be so quick to denounce him as a wussy not worthy of being on our team.
I could argue round and round on this like a few fellow Scoopers we know, but I won't. You get the last word on this topic (till next time it comes up).
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too lazy to look up where he did go, but where ever it was, i'm sure their message board was named kumbaya and filled love love love
It actually wasn’t due to negative things said, but rather people leaking private information.
Other coaches have blamed message boards for losing recruits. I know ND lost a big time FB PSA because of racially tinged comments.
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It actually wasn’t due to negative things said, but rather people leaking private information.
So we had one example of one player not becoming a Warrior due to something said on Scoop ... and it turns out he chose not to become a Warrior for some other reason.
Nice.
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It still seems like a bad April's joke that the Hausers quit Marquette. I was a huge backer of Sam's for 3 years. He could have finished out as one of our greatest all time Warriors. Instead he will be k own as a quitter. Joey is also a "quitter." He quit on his high school team and now his college team. In my mind they will always be "quitters." It's sad. I wish it wasn't so.
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It still seems like a bad April's joke that the Hausers quit Marquette. I was a huge backer of Sam's for 3 years. He could have finished out as one of our greatest all time Warriors. Instead he will be k own as a quitter. Joey is also a "quitter." He quit on his high school team and now his college team. In my mind they will always be "quitters." It's sad. I wish it wasn't so.
Joey was a quitter because he had a broken ankle and chose to attend college early. Where the hell are your priorities.
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It still seems like a bad April's joke that the Hausers quit Marquette. I was a huge backer of Sam's for 3 years. He could have finished out as one of our greatest all time Warriors. Instead he will be k own as a quitter. Joey is also a "quitter." He quit on his high school team and now his college team. In my mind they will always be "quitters." It's sad. I wish it wasn't so.
Disagree. They should not be labeled as quitters. If that were so, everyone who left one place for another would be a quitter. That makes up about 95% of the free world, including Markus who left AZ to go to high school in NV, as.well as when he reclassified, and Wojo who left Duke to come here.
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I’ll never consider the Hausers “quitters”. I’ll consider them two kids who decided to get out of what they viewed as a bad situation under a coach who’d violated their trust
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I’ll never consider the Hausers “quitters”. I’ll consider them two kids who decided to get out of what they viewed as a bad situation under a coach who’d violated their trust
That's exactly correct. The atmosphere at Marquette is toxic and it is entirely of Wojo's doing.
And these young men made that decision after extreme deliberation because it was the single biggest decision they have made thus far in life.
This will pale compared with others they will have to make but for now it is the single biggest call yet.
To label them as quitters is both ill-informed and specious.
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How did Wojo violate their trust? And how is the atmosphere at Marquette toxic?
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I’ll never consider the Hausers “quitters”. I’ll consider them two kids who decided to get out of what they viewed as a bad situation under a coach who’d violated their trust
Quitters, etc., is overly harsh and unnecessary.
But so is nonsense about a coach "violating their trust." Even if you believe every rumor we've read here, Wojo in no way violated their trust. He simply didn't cow to their wishes. Big f'in difference and any effort to paint it as such is asinine.
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Quitters, etc., is overly harsh and unnecessary.
But so is nonsense about a coach "violating their trust." Even if you believe every rumor we've read here, Wojo in no way violated their trust. He simply didn't cow to their wishes. Big f'in difference and any effort to paint it as such is asinine.
You are wrong.
The stories coming out of the locker room are not rumors. It is fact.
And the Hausers did not issue an ultimatum.
The program is in a very very desperate place right now. Believe it or don't. Either way it doesn't alter the fact that the MBB locker room is toxic.
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You are wrong.
The stories coming out of the locker room are not rumors. It is fact.
And the Hausers did not issue an ultimatum.
The program is in a very very desperate place right now. Believe it or don't. Either way it doesn't alter the fact that the MBB locker room is toxic.
I'll note that you both put words in my mouth (who said anything about an ultimatum?) and failed to answer the question about how the Hausers' trust was violated.
Well done.
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Unfortunately, at least for me, I’m having a hard time seeing how the Hauser’s decision to transfer won’t negatively affect Markus’ legacy at MU. I hope in 12 months I feel differently about that.
As for the Hauser’s, the destination they end up at is everything to me. If they go to MSU or Virginia, I can chalk it up to just a major Wojo F up and move on. If they go to the Badgers, then it’s still on Wojo for letting it get to that point but also F the Hauser’s. Any news about them would just be met with bitterness.
So, here’s hoping they don’t end up at Bucky because Sam in particular was probably my favorite player.
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I'll note that you both put words in my mouth (who said anything about an ultimatum?) and failed to answer the question about how the Hausers' trust was violated.
Well done.
He simply didn't cow to their wishes
Sounds like you thought the Hausers issued an ultimatum and the strong, resolute Wojo refused to budge from his principles.
And I am not getting into specifics with you of violations of trust, double speak, miscommunication, trite platitudes which has characterized Wojo's leadership.
The guy is in over his head and needs to go. The damage is severe and I don't see how he recovers.
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He simply didn't cow to their wishes
Sounds like you thought the Hausers issued an ultimatum and the strong, resolute Wojo refused to budge from his principles.
No, if I thought the Hausers had issued an ultimatum, I'd have used the word ultimatum. Or perhaps demand. Maybe even insistence.
I chose the word "wishes" because it is not at all like demand or ultimatum. A fan of Roget's work such as yourself should know the difference.
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Unfortunately, at least for me, I’m having a hard time seeing how the Hauser’s decision to transfer won’t negatively affect Markus’ legacy at MU. I hope in 12 months I feel differently about that.
As for the Hauser’s, the destination they end up at is everything to me. If they go to MSU or Virginia, I can chalk it up to just a major Wojo F up and move on. If they go to the Badgers, then it’s still on Wojo for letting it get to that point but also F the Hauser’s. Any news about them would just be met with bitterness.
So, here’s hoping they don’t end up at Bucky because Sam in particular was probably my favorite player.
What happens if MSU and Tony don't have room or don't want the Hauser family? Wisconsin ends up being their only destination, which from what I've heard is their safety net.
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PTM
There is room for them at any program in the country, with exception of the Wojo led Warriors.
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wojo violated the trust of the hausers so much that the hausers would still be at marquette if markus was not, per a lunch with the hauser parents.
eff outta here. after 20 wins in 22 games the hausers wrote a petition and went behind their teammate’s back trying to get everyone else to sign it to get wojo to rein said player in at the very first loss. you wonder why the team folded down the stretch? thats one good way to guarantee the team falls apart thats for sure.
they quit because they “are winners” and just wanted to win and werent going to do that in this system, apparently. whats ironic is they are the ones that created the locker room divide that ended the winning they so long for. if it were their “broken trust in wojo,” markus being back wouldnt have changed a thing. as it turned out, it changed everything.
good riddance, quitters. hope you get the shots youre looking for elsewhere.
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wojo violated the trust of the hausers so much that the hausers would still be at marquette if markus was not, per a lunch with the hauser parents.
eff outta here. after 20 wins in 22 games the hausers wrote a petition and went behind their teammate’s back trying to get everyone else to sign it to get wojo to rein said player in at the very first loss. you wonder why the team folded down the stretch? thats one good way to guarantee the team falls apart thats for sure.
they quit because they “are winners” and just wanted to win and werent going to do that in this system, apparently. whats ironic is they are the ones that created the locker room divide that ended the winning they so long for. if it were their “broken trust in wojo,” markus being back wouldnt have changed a thing. as it turned out, it changed everything.
good riddance, quitters. hope you get the shots youre looking for elsewhere.
was it your lunch with them or secondhand? just curious
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And I am not getting into specifics with you of violations of trust, double speak, miscommunication, trite platitudes which has characterized Wojo's leadership.
But if you did, and had actual sources, we might be more inclined to believe you. But you're passing on 3rd party "stories", like a freaking game of telephone and passing it on like you have first hand knowledge.
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A lot can change in a week. I am always a fan of getting new information and not relying on old information.
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A lot can change in a week. I am always a fan of getting new information and not relying on old information.
Meaning?
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wojo violated the trust of the hausers so much that the hausers would still be at marquette if markus was not, per a lunch with the hauser parents.
eff outta here. after 20 wins in 22 games the hausers wrote a petition and went behind their teammate’s back trying to get everyone else to sign it to get wojo to rein said player in at the very first loss. you wonder why the team folded down the stretch? thats one good way to guarantee the team falls apart thats for sure.
they quit because they “are winners” and just wanted to win and werent going to do that in this system, apparently. whats ironic is they are the ones that created the locker room divide that ended the winning they so long for. if it were their “broken trust in wojo,” markus being back wouldnt have changed a thing. as it turned out, it changed everything.
good riddance, quitters. hope you get the shots youre looking for elsewhere.
Hauser discontent AND late season fold were both byproducts of a coaches inability to rein in a player and manage the situation. Put another way Hauser discontent and late season fold were symptoms, Wojo's failure as a coach was cause.
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He simply didn't cow to their wishes
Sounds like you thought the Hausers issued an ultimatum and the strong, resolute Wojo refused to budge from his principles.
And I am not getting into specifics with you of violations of trust, double speak, miscommunication, trite platitudes which has characterized Wojo's leadership.
The guy is in over his head and needs to go. The damage is severe and I don't see how he recovers.
This is my fear Keefe. If they keep Wojo another year we will have lost a year to rebuild. I was not a fire Wojo guy before the hauser incident, now I think the situation is too far gone to keep him.
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Hairy
It is a waste of time of arguing with these guys. Anyone that thinks that Elliott and Cain are going to fill in the gaps, are not worth debating with. The mindset of Wojo/MU does no wrong is simply amazing to me.
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Hairy
It is a waste of time of arguing with these guys. Anyone that thinks that Elliott and Cain are going to fill in the gaps, are not worth debating with. The mindset of Wojo/MU does no wrong is simply amazing to me.
I'll take "Things literally no one has said for $500, Alex."
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Hairy
It is a waste of time of arguing with these guys. Anyone that thinks that Elliott and Cain are going to fill in the gaps, are not worth debating with. The mindset of Wojo/MU does no wrong is simply amazing to me.
I am no insider or claim to be a basketball savant, but the miss use of players, late season swoon and current situation is plain as day to me. My only hope is somehow Woj can pick up the pieces and recover. I have no ill will toward wojo, his success is Marquette success. My common sense tells me this is a losing proposition with this guy.
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Hairy
It is a waste of time of arguing with these guys. Anyone that thinks that Elliott and Cain are going to fill in the gaps, are not worth debating with. The mindset of Wojo/MU does no wrong is simply amazing to me.
Goose
I think you're painting with too broad of a brush. I was livid when the rumors started circulating. Sam has easily been my favorite player, but Marquette moves on. For 2019-2020, it's not a stretch that some would rather have Markus instead of the Hausers. I was an antagonist of Joey's early on, so it's not revisionist history.
I believe the entire team had their opportunities to showcase. Markus, the All-American with transcendent shooting ability took center stage though.
This is still a very curious transaction of college basketball, but that's what it is, a transaction. Do I think MU is as good, no. I do think there's a potential to be very good. I expect defense to improve drastically, I expect the be able to run a transition offense (my #1 gripe about last season) and I expect that the 5 position will flourish. These three due to the Hauser departure could make next season interesting enough.
MU is going to have a different look, and I don't hate it.
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I think you're painting with too broad of a brush. I was livid when the rumors started circulating. Sam has easily been my favorite player, but Marquette moves on. For 2019-2020, it's not a stretch that some would rather have Markus instead of the Hausers. I was an antagonist of Joey's early on, so it's not revisionist history.
I believe the entire team had their opportunities to showcase. Markus, the All-American with transcendent shooting ability took center stage though.
This is still a very curious transaction of college basketball, but that's what it is, a transaction. Do I think MU is as good, no. I do think there's a potential to be very good. I expect defense to improve drastically, I expect the be able to run a transition offense (my #1 gripe about last season) and I expect that the 5 position will flourish. These three due to the Hauser departure could make next season interesting enough.
MU is going to have a different look, and I don't hate it.
A very healthy attitude to take, PTM.
I am not happy with the way Wojo managed egos or this entire situation, and I am worried the program cannot recover under his watch.
However, he is still our coach, we still have an All-American player, we have some nice supporting players with potential to improve, and I'm still a Marquette fan. I will support our team, hope our recruiting continues to be good, and will cheer on our Warriors.
I happen to think that beats the alternative of screaming about how doomed we are and insisting that something that's simply not going to happen (Wojo being fired) must happen.
But hey, what do you and I know?
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A very healthy attitude to take, PTM.
I am not happy with the way Wojo managed egos or this entire situation, and I am worried the program cannot recover under his watch.
However, he is still our coach, we still have an All-American player, we have some nice supporting players with potential to improve, and I'm still a Marquette fan. I will support our team, hope our recruiting continues to be good, and will cheer on our Warriors.
I happen to think that beats the alternative of screaming about how doomed we are and insisting that something that's simply not going to happen (Wojo being fired) must happen.
But hey, what do you and I know?
I have a small suspicion that the 2020 recruiting class will show how Wojo recovers, for the better.
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I have a small suspicion that the 2020 recruiting class will show how Wojo recovers, for the better.
Agree, that will tell a lot. If Wojo signs a few of these highly ranked players, the long-term effect of Hausershima will have been vastly overstated. If he flops on the recruiting trail in the wake of Hausergeddon, he will have to go for the good of the program.
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wojo violated the trust of the hausers so much that the hausers would still be at marquette if markus was not, per a lunch with the hauser parents.
eff outta here. after 20 wins in 22 games the hausers wrote a petition and went behind their teammate’s back trying to get everyone else to sign it to get wojo to rein said player in at the very first loss. you wonder why the team folded down the stretch? thats one good way to guarantee the team falls apart thats for sure.
they quit because they “are winners” and just wanted to win and werent going to do that in this system, apparently. whats ironic is they are the ones that created the locker room divide that ended the winning they so long for. if it were their “broken trust in wojo,” markus being back wouldnt have changed a thing. as it turned out, it changed everything.
good riddance, quitters. hope you get the shots youre looking for elsewhere.
This is where I'm at. Can't wrap my head around it. All the fault/blame is with Wojo, per the majority of info on the board. But it was Markus decision to return that caused them to leave.
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This is where I'm at. Can't wrap my head around it. All the fault/blame is with Wojo, per the majority of info on the board. But it was Markus decision to return that caused them to leave.
Well, the theory seems to be that the Hausers left because Markus was allowed to hog the ball and with him returning, they believed that would continue.
Allowing that to occur might make Wojo a bad coach. But how some have taken the leap to "violated their trust" is silly nonsense. And if the Hausers were willing to return had Markus exited, then it proves the "violated their trust" business specious.
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I remember Markus bumping and yelling at Joey to shake him out of his funk. Joe's play dropped off noticeably hurting the team
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Continued... it seemed like Markus was trying hard to win. Joey was stumbling and bumbling on offense and defense.
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I still question if Joey and Sam can really play at the same time. 2 average athletes that play below the rim. If Wojo can get lucky and find 1 tall average player, can play Theo and Morrow at the same time.
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Meaning?
+1. C'mon TAMU, enough with the cryptic Stan type statements. Share what you know.
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I still question if Joey and Sam can really play at the same time. 2 average athletes that play below the rim. If Wojo can get lucky and find 1 tall average player, can play Theo and Morrow at the same time.
This is a very valid question.
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This is a very valid question.
Both Sam and Joey are better athletes than Markus Howard. And doesn’t he play “below the rim?”
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Both Sam and Joey are better athletes than Markus Howard. And doesn’t he play “below the rim?”
wut? ive seen markus dunk about as many times as ive seen the hausers dunk combined, and the hausers have a foot on markus. and foot speed its not even close.
theres a difference between your power forward playing below the rim and your point guard playing below the rim.
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Both Sam and Joey are better athletes than Markus Howard.
One of the sillier things I have read on Scoop.
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One of the sillier things I have read on Scoop.
And that's saying something!
I could see somebody making the argument that Joey has a chance to be a better player than Markus someday. Joey is not a very good athlete now. Too slow, too much baby fat, maybe some lingering effect of his injury. I have long contended that Sam is a better athlete than he's given credit for, but I don't know how somebody would be able to show evidence that he's a better athlete than Markus.
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Unfortunately, at least for me, I’m having a hard time seeing how the Hauser’s decision to transfer won’t negatively affect Markus’ legacy at MU. I hope in 12 months I feel differently about that.
As for the Hauser’s, the destination they end up at is everything to me. If they go to MSU or Virginia, I can chalk it up to just a major Wojo F up and move on. If they go to the Badgers, then it’s still on Wojo for letting it get to that point but also F the Hauser’s. Any news about them would just be met with bitterness.
So, here’s hoping they don’t end up at Bucky because Sam in particular was probably my favorite player.
The Hausers’ decision to transfer will not and should not darken in any way Markus’s legacy at MU. As for the transfer affecting Markus’s production, I doubt it. Yes, defenders had to respect Sam and Joey as spot-up shooters, but their production was far more dependent on Markus than vice-versa. Just watch the games again. Note how many times help defenders had to commit to Howard while Sam got a mismatch or wide open shot.
It should have never come to choosing between horses, but once the Stevens Point contingent made it about that, Thank Al McGuire himself that Wojo chose the right Derby horse. Markus is a once-in-a-lifetime talent with multiple arrows in the quiver. He regularly scores on double and triple teams where he is giving each defender sometimes a half foot in height. The Hausers are spot-up shooters (plus Sam’s admittedly craft array of moves) who do the opposite....score regularly 1on1 on smaller defenders.
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Goose
I think you're painting with too broad of a brush. I was livid when the rumors started circulating. Sam has easily been my favorite player, but Marquette moves on. For 2019-2020, it's not a stretch that some would rather have Markus instead of the Hausers. I was an antagonist of Joey's early on, so it's not revisionist history.
I believe the entire team had their opportunities to showcase. Markus, the All-American with transcendent shooting ability took center stage though.
This is still a very curious transaction of college basketball, but that's what it is, a transaction. Do I think MU is as good, no. I do think there's a potential to be very good. I expect defense to improve drastically, I expect the be able to run a transition offense (my #1 gripe about last season) and I expect that the 5 position will flourish. These three due to the Hauser departure could make next season interesting enough.
MU is going to have a different look, and I don't hate it.
Good work, PTM.
I read this Post while listening to Still by Geto Boys.
I just read/listened to the destruction of a narrative, that MU Hoops is in crisis.
#PC Load LETTER
#No Paper Jam
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Hausers will be terrific in Gard's system
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PTMs posts have definitely been level headed n refreshing
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Hausers will be terrific in Gard's system
I dont care where the Hausers go, once they left MU they were dead to me. If they go to Wisconsin it only further chararacter revealed. Maybe all the people that are blaming their selfishness and lack of character on Wojo can become Wisconsin fans.
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I dont care where the Hausers go, once they left MU they were dead to me. If they go to Wisconsin it only further chararacter revealed. Maybe all the people that are blaming their selfishness and lack of character on Wojo can become Wisconsin fans.
Right on.
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Right on.
Yep. It's already starting to feel like beating a dead horse. Until these former players actually speak about the why, it's wasted energy.
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Yep. It's already starting to feel like beating a dead horse. Until these former players actually speak about the why, it's wasted energy.
Wonder if they will ever speak of the why? It really does not matter where they go, what does matter is that they left. The why of it does matter. But whatever the reason, this falls on Wojo, because it is his program, and he is responsible.
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You are wrong.
The stories coming out of the locker room are not rumors. It is fact.
And the Hausers did not issue an ultimatum.
The program is in a very very desperate place right now. Believe it or don't. Either way it doesn't alter the fact that the MBB locker room is toxic.
Are you able to provide any examples or context, or just wiggle your finger like you have inside info but don't care to share it?
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PTM, MU82 and Pakuni: You all have great, level-headed takes in this thread. I share your collective outlook.
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I dont care where the Hausers go, once they left MU they were dead to me. If they go to Wisconsin it only further chararacter revealed. Maybe all the people that are blaming their selfishness and lack of character on Wojo can become Wisconsin fans.
Stop calling them selfish...Jesus H christ, unless you know the details of what happened, stop blaming the Hauser's for this. It's Wojo's program, HE is responsible for fixing any locker room problems(he didn't and this is the end result). To think this was/is simply just a Hauser issue, is being incredibly naive or just plain stupid. Yes, they were the only one's that left. That does not however mean their aren't other players that shared the same perspective as the Hauser's did.
Stop bashing Sam and Joey...you have no f'n idea what went on...none. This isn't on them.
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Stop bashing Sam and Joey...you have no f'n idea what went on...none. This isn't on them.
Share what you know or stop posting like you have all the answers. Your opinion is no better than anyone else's unless you provide actual evidence that you know what you're talking about. I haven't read all the posts on here the last week or so, so maybe you have. And if so, I apologize. Also if so, please link that post. K thx.
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Share what you know or stop posting like you have all the answers. Your opinion is no better than anyone else's unless you provide actual evidence that you know what you're talking about. I haven't read all the posts on here the last week or so, so maybe you have. And if so, I apologize. Also if so, please link that post. K thx.
It doesn't matter what people with credible info do post here, no one believes it unless ACTUAL evidence is posted. Like that's ever going to happen. It's like people don't believe that people do have sources, and if you say too much they suddenly don't become sources anymore.
There was a letter written by the team to Wojo...and very few believed that that actually was real unless someone posted actual evidence of the letter. Seriously?? Okay yeah, I will go ask one of the players or Coaches to have access to the letter because people on scoop want to see the actual contents of the letter, before they believe it's real.
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It doesn't matter what people with credible info do post here, no one believes it unless ACTUAL evidence is posted.
I know, right? It's crazy that people want actual proof before believing the rantings of an anonymous poster on a message board.
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What happens if MSU and Tony don't have room or don't want the Hauser family? Wisconsin ends up being their only destination, which from what I've heard is their safety net.
There's always Nebraska.
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Iowa State. The default destination for MU transfers.
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Iowa State. The default destination for MU transfers.
That's Nebraska now (actually surprised Hoiberg isn't all over them)
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It doesn't matter what people with credible info do post here, no one believes it unless ACTUAL evidence is posted. Like that's ever going to happen. It's like people don't believe that people do have sources, and if you say too much they suddenly don't become sources anymore.
There was a letter written by the team to Wojo...and very few believed that that actually was real unless someone posted actual evidence of the letter. Seriously?? Okay yeah, I will go ask one of the players or Coaches to have access to the letter because people on scoop want to see the actual contents of the letter, before they believe it's real.
Sounds good! Let us know how that convo goes!
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Stop calling them selfish.
Of course they're selfish. Most humans are, and certainly most high-level athletes are. Gotta think of yourself first, and that's what they are doing.
They are the enemy now. Stop defending them. They are no less hate-able than Myles Powell, Nutgrabber McDouchenozzle, Macura, etc. Or have you suddenly started liking Powell and Floppy?
All of the above doesn't mean the majority of this situation isn't on Wojo. It's just that, in the end, the real Warriors chose to stay. The Quitter Brothers chose to quit.
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MU 82
Have another one. Wow, strong opinion, hoping bourbon driven.
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There's always Nebraska.
It’s not like they’ve been shunned by MSU and UVA. It’s going to be Wisconsin. It’s always been Wisconsin, even before they officially announced their transfer. The other schools are just a smoke screen until they get off campus.
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It’s not like they’ve been shunned by MSU and UVA. It’s going to be Wisconsin. It’s always been Wisconsin, even before they officially announced their transfer. The other schools are just a smoke screen until they get off campus.
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At least won dude has it write, aina?
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MU 82
Have another one. Wow, strong opinion, hoping bourbon driven.
As one of my friends used to say when we were at Marquette:
Sober as a judge ... Judge Seraphim!
Sober, drunk or anywhere in between, I will root for Warriors who want to be Warriors.
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82
You remember your MKE history. Judge Seraphim was one of a kind.
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82
You remember your MKE history. Judge Seraphim was one of a kind.
they didn't call him Christ for nothing, eyn'a?
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It’s not like they’ve been shunned by MSU and UVA. It’s going to be Wisconsin. It’s always been Wisconsin, even before they officially announced their transfer. The other schools are just a smoke screen until they get off campus.
Wisconsin-Stevens Point is their best fit.
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It’s not like they’ve been shunned by MSU and UVA. It’s going to be Wisconsin. It’s always been Wisconsin, even before they officially announced their transfer. The other schools are just a smoke screen until they get off campus.
Exactly—potrykus dropped it last week.
It’s Wisconsin—there is no one else,
Hate to say it, but Joey is a mouth breather and is going home.
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I know, right? It's crazy that people want actual proof before believing the rantings of an anonymous poster on a message board.
Agree with you Pakuni! I can't believe someone hacked into Cain's Twitter account, pasted a fake photo together of the team all looking happy and unified post-hausers. Clearly the haters super secret evidence that this is all a fake and the team is miserable like the Hausers and actually all transferring once the Hauser's pick their new school for them.
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Of course they're selfish. Most humans are, and certainly most high-level athletes are. Gotta think of yourself first, and that's what they are doing.
They are the enemy now. Stop defending them. They are no less hate-able than Myles Powell, Nutgrabber McDouchenozzle, Macura, etc. Or have you suddenly started liking Powell and Floppy?
All of the above doesn't mean the majority of this situation isn't on Wojo. It's just that, in the end, the real Warriors chose to stay. The Quitter Brothers chose to quit.
Scholarships are 1 year agreements. Wojo never had the Hausers agreements for 2019-20 so he never lost them for 2019-20. Can't lose what you never had. Right, Mike?
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Scholarships are 1 year agreements. Wojo never had the Hausers agreements for 2019-20 so he never lost them for 2019-20. Can't lose what you never had. Right, Mike?
As you know, Lenny, I have said many times that Wojo totally screwed the pooch here. Ego-management is one of a coach's main jobs, and he failed here. I have put the lion's share of the blame for this fiasco on Wojo, and I am concerned that the program will not recover -- at least not with him as coach. Which would trigger yet another rebuild. Ugh.
So yes, Wojo lost the Hausers. And you knew I believed that because you read Scoop and I have said so numerous times. But I know you're just having fun, and that's cool.
All of the above doesn't mean the Hausers didn't quit. That was 100% their choice. It also doesn't mean I have to keep rooting for guys who quit on my alma mater and now will be playing for our archrivals. Not quite sure why any Marquette fan would root for rival players, but some apparently love the Hausers more than the Warriors. I'm not including you in that, Lenny, because I don't know where you stand.
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Not quite sure why any Marquette fan would root for rival players, but some apparently love the Hausers more than the Warriors. I'm not including you in that, Lenny, because I don't know where you stand.
Mike,
"Some apparently love the Hausers more than the Warriors"? Really? I've read most of the crap (even the Sand Knit stuff) written on this subject and not only is it not "apparent" to me that anyone on Scoop on any side of this issue loves the Hausers more than they do Marquette basketball, I think it's ludicrous to even suggest it as a possibility.
Where do I stand? I've watched Sam Hauser play at MU for 3 years. His effort, IMO, has been exemplary, battling back from surgery, always giving 100% despite usually playing against physically stronger players. He is, again IMO, smart and unselfish, a great example of a team player. And he's pretty good - according to our stats guru, John Pudner, the 28th best player in the country last year. For all of this (and more) he has earned a reservoir of good will from this Marquette fan. And if he was disappointed watching our team and season collapse while a supposedly injured player dominated the ball (playing "hero ball" and playing it poorly) I don't blame him - I was too. To you, he's Brad Davison. To me, he's earned better than that. I could never root for UW, I hope they go 0-30 and we beat them by 20+. But I won't be rooting against Sam. I think he deserves better. I think he's earned better. He's not a traitor, he's not a quitter. He has one year of college basketball left and decided it would be more fun to play for a team/coach who believes in sharing the ball than watching the Markus Show with Wojo for another year. I'm disappointed with Sam's decision. I'm more disappointed that Wojo lack of leadership allowed things to come to this.
Joey (IMO) is following his brother. I think he will turn out to be an outstanding college basketball player and we'll come to regret his loss. But I don't really have much of a connection with him - one year isn't enough to forge one.
Bottom line, I think this fiasco falls on Wojo. I don't think he should be fired but I think he should be on notice. This year, on the court and on the recruiting trail, is his last chance for me. Hope he hits it out of the park but I think it's unlikely.
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Lenny Man with the voice of reason, as always, aina?
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Mike,
"Some apparently love the Hausers more than the Warriors"? Really? I've read most of the crap (even the Sand Knit stuff) written on this subject and not only is it not "apparent" to me that anyone on Scoop on any side of this issue loves the Hausers more than they do Marquette basketball, I think it's ludicrous to even suggest it as a possibility.
Where do I stand? I've watched Sam Hauser play at MU for 3 years. His effort, IMO, has been exemplary, battling back from surgery, always giving 100% despite usually playing against physically stronger players. He is, again IMO, smart and unselfish, a great example of a team player. And he's pretty good - according to our stats guru, John Pudner, the 28th best player in the country last year. For all of this (and more) he has earned a reservoir of good will from this Marquette fan. And if he was disappointed watching our team and season collapse while a supposedly injured player dominated the ball (playing "hero ball" and playing it poorly) I don't blame him - I was too. To you, he's Brad Davison. To me, he's earned better than that. I could never root for UW, I hope they go 0-30 and we beat them by 20+. But I won't be rooting against Sam. I think he deserves better. I think he's earned better. He's not a traitor, he's not a quitter. He has one year of college basketball left and decided it would be more fun to play for a team/coach who believes in sharing the ball than watching the Markus Show with Wojo for another year. I'm disappointed with Sam's decision. I'm more disappointed that Wojo lack of leadership allowed things to come to this.
Joey (IMO) is following his brother. I think he will turn out to be an outstanding college basketball player and we'll come to regret his loss. But I don't really have much of a connection with him - one year isn't enough to forge one.
Bottom line, I think this fiasco falls on Wojo. I don't think he should be fired but I think he should be on notice. This year, on the court and on the recruiting trail, is his last chance for me. Hope he hits it out of the park but I think it's unlikely.
Amen. Preach.
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Mike,
"Some apparently love the Hausers more than the Warriors"? Really? I've read most of the crap (even the Sand Knit stuff) written on this subject and not only is it not "apparent" to me that anyone on Scoop on any side of this issue loves the Hausers more than they do Marquette basketball, I think it's ludicrous to even suggest it as a possibility.
Where do I stand? I've watched Sam Hauser play at MU for 3 years. His effort, IMO, has been exemplary, battling back from surgery, always giving 100% despite usually playing against physically stronger players. He is, again IMO, smart and unselfish, a great example of a team player. And he's pretty good - according to our stats guru, John Pudner, the 28th best player in the country last year. For all of this (and more) he has earned a reservoir of good will from this Marquette fan. And if he was disappointed watching our team and season collapse while a supposedly injured player dominated the ball (playing "hero ball" and playing it poorly) I don't blame him - I was too. To you, he's Brad Davison. To me, he's earned better than that. I could never root for UW, I hope they go 0-30 and we beat them by 20+. But I won't be rooting against Sam. I think he deserves better. I think he's earned better. He's not a traitor, he's not a quitter. He has one year of college basketball left and decided it would be more fun to play for a team/coach who believes in sharing the ball than watching the Markus Show with Wojo for another year. I'm disappointed with Sam's decision. I'm more disappointed that Wojo lack of leadership allowed things to come to this.
Joey (IMO) is following his brother. I think he will turn out to be an outstanding college basketball player and we'll come to regret his loss. But I don't really have much of a connection with him - one year isn't enough to forge one.
Bottom line, I think this fiasco falls on Wojo. I don't think he should be fired but I think he should be on notice. This year, on the court and on the recruiting trail, is his last chance for me. Hope he hits it out of the park but I think it's unlikely.
The bolded part is problematic. Sam was not some innocent victim of Markus and Wojo during the skid, he was a big part of the reason why we lost many of those games. He missed a lot of shots and played poorly at times as well. 1-7 with three points against Creighton, 5 TOs at Seton Hall (where he led the team in FG attempts by the way), 2-11 against Georgetown. He played well in some of them too, notably the BET game against Seton Hall (where he had as many FG attempts as Markus BTW).
You are just giving him a pass because you like him, but he sucked down the stretch too, yet somehow Markus gets all the blame from you. Sam was at least tied for the lead in FG attempts in a third of the losses to end the season, yet he’s a blameless victim of Wojo’s ineptitude. I think he needs to look in the mirror if he’s looking for someone to blame for poor end to season.
Also, has Markus not “always given 100% despite usually playing against physically stronger players“?
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Mike,
"Some apparently love the Hausers more than the Warriors"? Really? I've read most of the crap (even the Sand Knit stuff) written on this subject and not only is it not "apparent" to me that anyone on Scoop on any side of this issue loves the Hausers more than they do Marquette basketball, I think it's ludicrous to even suggest it as a possibility.
Where do I stand? I've watched Sam Hauser play at MU for 3 years. His effort, IMO, has been exemplary, battling back from surgery, always giving 100% despite usually playing against physically stronger players. He is, again IMO, smart and unselfish, a great example of a team player. And he's pretty good - according to our stats guru, John Pudner, the 28th best player in the country last year. For all of this (and more) he has earned a reservoir of good will from this Marquette fan. And if he was disappointed watching our team and season collapse while a supposedly injured player dominated the ball (playing "hero ball" and playing it poorly) I don't blame him - I was too. To you, he's Brad Davison. To me, he's earned better than that. I could never root for UW, I hope they go 0-30 and we beat them by 20+. But I won't be rooting against Sam. I think he deserves better. I think he's earned better. He's not a traitor, he's not a quitter. He has one year of college basketball left and decided it would be more fun to play for a team/coach who believes in sharing the ball than watching the Markus Show with Wojo for another year. I'm disappointed with Sam's decision. I'm more disappointed that Wojo lack of leadership allowed things to come to this.
Joey (IMO) is following his brother. I think he will turn out to be an outstanding college basketball player and we'll come to regret his loss. But I don't really have much of a connection with him - one year isn't enough to forge one.
Bottom line, I think this fiasco falls on Wojo. I don't think he should be fired but I think he should be on notice. This year, on the court and on the recruiting trail, is his last chance for me. Hope he hits it out of the park but I think it's unlikely.
Home run, Lenny
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Lenny
You knocked out of the park. You summed up how I believe most MU fans feels about Sam and the situation. Great post!!
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The bolded part is problematic. Sam was not some innocent victim of Markus and Wojo during the skid, he was a big part of the reason why we lost many of those games. He missed a lot of shots and played poorly at times as well. 1-7 with three points against Creighton, 5 TOs at Seton Hall (where he led the team in FG attempts by the way), 2-11 against Georgetown. He played well in some of them too, notably the BET game against Seton Hall (where he had as many FG attempts as Markus BTW).
You are just giving him a pass because you like him, but he sucked down the stretch too, yet somehow Markus gets all the blame from you. Sam was at least tied for the lead in FG attempts in a third of the losses to end the season, yet he’s a blameless victim of Wojo’s ineptitude. I think he needs to look in the mirror if he’s looking for someone to blame for poor end to season.
Also, has Markus not “always given 100% despite usually playing against physically stronger players“?
Yeah this is where I'm at
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Mike,
"Some apparently love the Hausers more than the Warriors"? Really? I've read most of the crap (even the Sand Knit stuff) written on this subject and not only is it not "apparent" to me that anyone on Scoop on any side of this issue loves the Hausers more than they do Marquette basketball, I think it's ludicrous to even suggest it as a possibility.
Where do I stand? I've watched Sam Hauser play at MU for 3 years. His effort, IMO, has been exemplary, battling back from surgery, always giving 100% despite usually playing against physically stronger players. He is, again IMO, smart and unselfish, a great example of a team player. And he's pretty good - according to our stats guru, John Pudner, the 28th best player in the country last year. For all of this (and more) he has earned a reservoir of good will from this Marquette fan. And if he was disappointed watching our team and season collapse while a supposedly injured player dominated the ball (playing "hero ball" and playing it poorly) I don't blame him - I was too. To you, he's Brad Davison. To me, he's earned better than that. I could never root for UW, I hope they go 0-30 and we beat them by 20+. But I won't be rooting against Sam. I think he deserves better. I think he's earned better. He's not a traitor, he's not a quitter. He has one year of college basketball left and decided it would be more fun to play for a team/coach who believes in sharing the ball than watching the Markus Show with Wojo for another year. I'm disappointed with Sam's decision. I'm more disappointed that Wojo lack of leadership allowed things to come to this.
Joey (IMO) is following his brother. I think he will turn out to be an outstanding college basketball player and we'll come to regret his loss. But I don't really have much of a connection with him - one year isn't enough to forge one.
Bottom line, I think this fiasco falls on Wojo. I don't think he should be fired but I think he should be on notice. This year, on the court and on the recruiting trail, is his last chance for me. Hope he hits it out of the park but I think it's unlikely.
Perfect!
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I mostly agree with Lenny unless they go to UW. Then how could you possibly support seeing Sam in red trying to beat Marquette? No, i'm sorry, no.
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Let them go who cares. They don't play a lick of freaking defense and are as slow as white guys can get. Give me Cain over Joey Hauser any day of the week. Yes we lose scoring but maybe the replacements step up on D. This is a top 25 team book it. Let the quitters walk.
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The bolded part is problematic. Sam was not some innocent victim of Markus and Wojo during the skid, he was a big part of the reason why we lost many of those games. He missed a lot of shots and played poorly at times as well. 1-7 with three points against Creighton, 5 TOs at Seton Hall (where he led the team in FG attempts by the way), 2-11 against Georgetown. He played well in some of them too, notably the BET game against Seton Hall (where he had as many FG attempts as Markus BTW).
You are just giving him a pass because you like him, but he sucked down the stretch too, yet somehow Markus gets all the blame from you. Sam was at least tied for the lead in FG attempts in a third of the losses to end the season, yet he’s a blameless victim of Wojo’s ineptitude. I think he needs to look in the mirror if he’s looking for someone to blame for poor end to season.
Also, has Markus not “always given 100% despite usually playing against physically stronger players“?
I'm not "giving Sam a pass because I like him". He had a couple of bad games during our swoon just as Markus had a couple of good ones during that period. But someone has already posted the numbers for that stretch and they suggest that Sam was overall "good" (112 ORtg) and Markus was overall "bad" (either a 94 or a 97 ORtg, don't recall which). In addition, Markus's usage was a staggering 41%. As his play deteriorated, Wojo allowed or encouraged his ball dominance to increase.That's what I saw and the numbers back it up.
Regarding Markus, I have never questioned his effort or courage. I think both are outstanding. I only question his judgement and reluctance at times to share the ball. But if the coach doesn't make that a priority I can't really blame Markus for that.
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Mike,
"Some apparently love the Hausers more than the Warriors"? Really? I've read most of the crap (even the Sand Knit stuff) written on this subject and not only is it not "apparent" to me that anyone on Scoop on any side of this issue loves the Hausers more than they do Marquette basketball, I think it's ludicrous to even suggest it as a possibility.
Where do I stand? I've watched Sam Hauser play at MU for 3 years. His effort, IMO, has been exemplary, battling back from surgery, always giving 100% despite usually playing against physically stronger players. He is, again IMO, smart and unselfish, a great example of a team player. And he's pretty good - according to our stats guru, John Pudner, the 28th best player in the country last year. For all of this (and more) he has earned a reservoir of good will from this Marquette fan. And if he was disappointed watching our team and season collapse while a supposedly injured player dominated the ball (playing "hero ball" and playing it poorly) I don't blame him - I was too. To you, he's Brad Davison. To me, he's earned better than that. I could never root for UW, I hope they go 0-30 and we beat them by 20+. But I won't be rooting against Sam. I think he deserves better. I think he's earned better. He's not a traitor, he's not a quitter. He has one year of college basketball left and decided it would be more fun to play for a team/coach who believes in sharing the ball than watching the Markus Show with Wojo for another year. I'm disappointed with Sam's decision. I'm more disappointed that Wojo lack of leadership allowed things to come to this.
Joey (IMO) is following his brother. I think he will turn out to be an outstanding college basketball player and we'll come to regret his loss. But I don't really have much of a connection with him - one year isn't enough to forge one.
Bottom line, I think this fiasco falls on Wojo. I don't think he should be fired but I think he should be on notice. This year, on the court and on the recruiting trail, is his last chance for me. Hope he hits it out of the park but I think it's unlikely.
Superb comment, Lenny. You and I agree almost completely.
I have said repeatedly that "this fiasco falls on Wojo." I also agree that he shouldn't be fired (though I wouldn't cry if he were) and that, as I've said numerous times, "Wojo is on the clock." I also am disappointed in Wojo's lack of leadership. I also have expressed almost the exact same hope as you did in your last sentence: I want him to succeed, but this fiasco might have damaged the Marquette basketball brand enough to make it unlikely.
I agree totally about Joey.
And I agree with most of what you said about Sam, one of my favorite Marquette players of recent years. I know the term "quitter" has extremely negative connotations, but I have used it in the most literal sense:
QUIT: "Leave a place, usually permanently." By that and pretty much any definition one can find in any dictionary, he and Joey did quit Marquette. Therefore, they are quitters by the most basic definition: "One who quits."
However, I wouldn't apply one of the common extremely negative definitions to Sam: "A person who quits or gives up easily, especially in the face of some difficulty, danger, etc." Even if I don't agree with all of the methods he supposedly used (which have been discussed on Scoop), I don't think he gave up easily. And I can see why you and others who think of that definition would not appreciate it being used about Sam and his brother.
It looks like Sam to F%ckyLand is a done deal, but if he somehow ends up elsewhere, I will not root against him unless our alma mater plays against him. If he ends up with our archrivals, however, I will never root for him or his brother or his team. Of course I will not root for any of them to suffer some kind of physical catastrophe, but I will be hoping the whole lot of them fail spectacularly at basketball. They are F%ckies and we are Warriors; I want them to lose and us to win. I can't say it any more simply than that, and it seems you agree.
Your outstanding comment has influenced me, Lenny. Because of the connotation of "quitters," I will stop using that term about the Hausers. I might still say they quit Marquette, because they assuredly did, but I will stop using the word "quitters" because it upsets Scoopers I respect and also because, in its most negative form, it doesn't describe Sam accurately.
Otherwise, I am glad that you and I agree so completely on 99% of this, and that so many of our fellow Scoopers -- judging by their reaction to your post -- agree with both of us.
Thanks for the conversation.
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Scholarships are 1 year agreements. Wojo never had the Hausers agreements for 2019-20 so he never lost them for 2019-20. Can't lose what you never had. Right, Mike?
In the Big East and other P6 conferences they no longer are since 2014....commitments for 4 years I believe. Billy can keep me honest since he does this for a living and can correct me.
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In the Big East and other P6 conferences they no longer are since 2014....commitments for 4 years I believe. Billy can keep me honest since he does this for a living and can correct me.
Missed you during the past week.
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Superb comment, Lenny. You and I agree almost completely.
I have said repeatedly that "this fiasco falls on Wojo." I also agree that he shouldn't be fired (though I wouldn't cry if he were) and that, as I've said numerous times, "Wojo is on the clock." I also am disappointed in Wojo's lack of leadership. I also have expressed almost the exact same hope as you did in your last sentence: I want him to succeed, but this fiasco might have damaged the Marquette basketball brand enough to make it unlikely.
I agree totally about Joey.
And I agree with most of what you said about Sam, one of my favorite Marquette players of recent years. I know the term "quitter" has extremely negative connotations, but I have used it in the most literal sense:
QUIT: "Leave a place, usually permanently." By that and pretty much any definition one can find in any dictionary, he and Joey did quit Marquette. Therefore, they are quitters by the most basic definition: "One who quits."
However, I wouldn't apply one of the common extremely negative definitions to Sam: "A person who quits or gives up easily, especially in the face of some difficulty, danger, etc." Even if I don't agree with all of the methods he supposedly used (which have been discussed on Scoop), I don't think he gave up easily. And I can see why you and others who think of that definition would not appreciate it being used about Sam and his brother.
It looks like Sam to F%ckyLand is a done deal, but if he somehow ends up elsewhere, I will not root against him unless our alma mater plays against him. If he ends up with our archrivals, however, I will never root for him or his brother or his team. Of course I will not root for any of them to suffer some kind of physical catastrophe, but I will be hoping the whole lot of them fail spectacularly at basketball. They are F%ckies and we are Warriors; I want them to lose and us to win. I can't say it any more simply than that, and it seems you agree.
Your outstanding comment has influenced me, Lenny. Because of the connotation of "quitters," I will stop using that term about the Hausers. I might still say they quit Marquette, because they assuredly did, but I will stop using the word "quitters" because it upsets Scoopers I respect and also because, in its most negative form, it doesn't describe Sam accurately.
Otherwise, I am glad that you and I agree so completely on 99% of this, and that so many of our fellow Scoopers -- judging by their reaction to your post -- agree with both of us.
Thanks for the conversation.
Mike,
Thanks for your generous remarks. This will be an interesting if controversial off season but come November we'll all want seashells and balloons for our Warriors!
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So that's settled, then? The sheer amount of words expended in debating the meaning and relevance of a single word has been breathtaking.
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So that's settled, then? The sheer amount of words expended in debating the meaning and relevance of a single word has been breathtaking.
Honored to have taken your breath away.
Hopefully, you had a few breaths to spare.
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Missed you during the past week.
As stated, last week I had a lot going on.
My daughter’s 3rd surgery in two months
NFL negotiations still ongoing and very public
Traveled to Colorado for my mom to see her for her 75th birthday and to watch Marquette play in the NCVF volleyball national championships on Thursday thru Saturday.
Way more important stuff than to watch the hysteria here. Way more important.