MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: keefe on March 03, 2020, 10:21:05 PM

Title: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: keefe on March 03, 2020, 10:21:05 PM
John Beilein.

Tanned. Rested. Ready.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: #UnleashJayce on March 03, 2020, 10:24:35 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/3rc482.jpg)
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Johnny B on March 03, 2020, 10:26:12 PM
Keep spamming this. Also your signature picture is too small I cant see it. Belien will be 68 next year. With the coaching change I'd assume we would be utter trash next year and probably not good in year 2. So john would be 70 in the first year most would start to expect success? What is the long term picture you see?? Is the guy gonna coach till hes 80? How much did he make with the cavs.? Hes not coming to a smallish private school to rebuild marquette basketball. Pull your head out of your ass. What do you see that makes this sound at all realistic
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JakeBarnes on March 03, 2020, 10:29:36 PM
 Bobby Knight. Old. Rested. Senile.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Warrior_2002 on March 03, 2020, 10:33:24 PM
Isn’t there a chance Bielein can keep the recruiting class in tact and have quick success?  Not saying he’s the guy but not sure it takes him 2 years to get started.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: PointWarrior on March 03, 2020, 10:35:43 PM
Thanks for starting the thread keefe

First - are there any schools that will take Wojo off our hands?

Second - who are realistic candidates?  Given Wojo can’t succeed here - would TJO or any else really want to come here ?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Eldon on March 03, 2020, 10:47:15 PM
Stan Johnson or Thad Matta (if healthy)
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 03, 2020, 10:49:13 PM
Thanks for starting the thread keefe

First - are there any schools that will take Wojo off our hands?

Second - who are realistic candidates?  Given Wojo can’t succeed here - would TJO or any else really want to come here ?
First - good question

Second - I don't understand the question. Because the great Wojo with all his head coach experience and history of deep tourney runs could not succeed at MU, others will not come to MU? Maybe it's me, but I see a huge gap in logic with your question.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: jesmu84 on March 03, 2020, 10:49:57 PM
TJO. Thad. Kick the tires on Tony and John. Becky Hammon?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Johnny B on March 03, 2020, 10:50:28 PM
Dywane wade
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: CountryRoads on March 03, 2020, 10:51:34 PM
Honest question and I know we are all upset tonight, but would other coaches shy away from the Marquette job if Wojo were let go? I mean it would be 3/4 years in the tournament.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on March 03, 2020, 11:11:42 PM
Stan Johnson or Thad Matta (if healthy)

The cult of Stan is mystifying. He’s as much a part of this as Wojo.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 03, 2020, 11:14:07 PM
John Beilein.

Tanned. Rested. Ready.

Might be best out there to keep what MU has intact (not much) and bring it to prosperity.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorPride68 on March 03, 2020, 11:16:38 PM
And mr Done Deal himself Shaka Smart with yer another win & likely saving his job
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Mike Deane's Seat Belt on March 03, 2020, 11:18:39 PM
Dywane wade

I think hes quite comfy on the nba on tnt desk right now. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Daniel on March 03, 2020, 11:19:44 PM
The cult of Stan is mystifying. He’s as much a part of this as Wojo.

I don’t buy that. The team changed significantly and quickly under Buzz after I4 departed.  So... who knows
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: LAZER on March 03, 2020, 11:20:10 PM
Stan Johnson or Thad Matta (if healthy)
Matta would be interesting
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 03, 2020, 11:20:54 PM
First person to say Brian Wardle should be euthanized.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 03, 2020, 11:22:18 PM
Honest question and I know we are all upset tonight, but would other coaches shy away from the Marquette job if Wojo were let go? I mean it would be 3/4 years in the tournament.
Great question. It would be a red flag but MU pays him very well, gives him top quality facilities and gave him 6 years. Also, MU could explain the separation based upon the end of these past two years.

That said, IMO, if Wojo goes, it will be for another "opportunity" and that he and MU mutually agreed to separate. MU will not have fired a coach with 3 NCAA's in 4 years.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorPride68 on March 03, 2020, 11:24:45 PM
First person to say Brian Wardle should be euthanized.

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/collegian.psu.edu/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/8c/08c80dcc-4976-11e9-bd81-7b5ae0bc4074/5c8f8987afd2c.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C799)
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: CountryRoads on March 03, 2020, 11:25:16 PM
First person to say Brian Wardle should be euthanized.

Probably not the *best* option, but it may actually be an upgrade.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 03, 2020, 11:31:13 PM
Probably not the *best* option, but it may actually be an upgrade.
X's and O's wise....... yes you are correct sir. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 03, 2020, 11:37:51 PM
Honest question and I know we are all upset tonight, but would other coaches shy away from the Marquette job if Wojo were let go? I mean it would be 3/4 years in the tournament.
NCAA coaches (the ones we want) aren't stupid.  It's clear Wojo has had faux "success" (in much the same way that a house flipper simply paints over rotten wood and sells it as new siding).
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 1SE on March 03, 2020, 11:46:26 PM
And mr Done Deal himself Shaka Smart with yer another win & likely saving his job

I remember when posters here were denigrating him Feb 15th after they 4 in a row to go to 4-8 in B12 play. Since then 5-0 including wins over 2 ranked teams, one on the road.

I'd rather win in March than November (or January in this case).
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 03, 2020, 11:50:12 PM
NCAA coaches (the ones we want) aren't stupid.  It's clear Wojo has had faux "success" (in much the same way that a house flipper simply paints over rotten wood and sells it as new siding).

If Wojo knew how to coach and develop, there would have been success.  You can recruit 4* stars at MU, the University puts up the money needed behind the program.

Also, if I were a coach, I'd look at the fact that the college landscape has changed drastically.  You no longer need to be at a blue blood school to be competitive.  Look at Dayton this year.  There's so much parity now that you can build a sweet sixteen squad at almost any Power conference program.  Not to mention, Big East has been holding its own since the big departure.  MU is an attractive program.  Question is, does the right person exist out there right now for it? 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: TAMU Eagle on March 03, 2020, 11:55:32 PM
John Beilein is not coming here no matter how many haikus Keefe posts about it.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: keefe on March 04, 2020, 12:16:33 AM
John Beilein is not coming here no matter how many haikus Keefe posts about it.

a deep dark despair
winter of our discontent
an elder savior
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 04, 2020, 12:33:56 AM
Speaking of coaching changes, would any decent school hire another Coach K assistant ever again? These guys never succeed, anywhere.

Coach K must have his assistants running for Starbucks and picking up his dry cleaning; they can't be so clueless if they were actually involved with the basketball program.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 04, 2020, 01:07:07 AM
Speaking of coaching changes, would any decent school hire another Coach K assistant ever again? These guys never succeed, anywhere.

Coach K must have his assistants running for Starbucks and picking up his dry cleaning; they can't be so clueless if they were actually involved with the basketball program.
Hot take but K hasn’t been that great of a basketball coach in several years. His deep run teams have been consistently absolutely loaded with talent that a monkey could coach.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Johnny B on March 04, 2020, 01:26:56 AM
Hot take but K hasn’t been that great of a basketball coach in several years. His deep run teams have been consistently absolutely loaded with talent that a monkey could coach.

Oh come on..
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: willie warrior on March 04, 2020, 04:29:02 AM
Keep spamming this. Also your signature picture is too small I cant see it. Belien will be 68 next year. With the coaching change I'd assume we would be utter trash next year and probably not good in year 2. So john would be 70 in the first year most would start to expect success? What is the long term picture you see?? Is the guy gonna coach till hes 80? How much did he make with the cavs.? Hes not coming to a smallish private school to rebuild marquette basketball. Pull your head out of your ass. What do you see that makes this sound at all realistic
What he sees is the alternative of 6 more years of Wojo wonders. Duke is in need of a janitor to shine Ks shoes.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: willie warrior on March 04, 2020, 04:31:00 AM
First person to say Brian Wardle should be euthanized.
Wardle would be an upgrade over Wojo.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: keefe on March 04, 2020, 04:36:12 PM
Thanks for starting the thread keefe

First - are there any schools that will take Wojo off our hands?

Second - who are realistic candidates?  Given Wojo can’t succeed here - would TJO or any else really want to come here ?

First - I think there are several P5 schools who are consistent bottom feeders. I could see any of them taking a flyer on a guy like Wojo - Duke pedigree, HC experience at MU. If nothing else, it can't be any worse than what their recent history has been. (Think: Vandy, Wazzou, Ol Miss, BC, et al)

Second - I think Beilein secures the incoming class and builds a winner immediately.

Some people cite Beilein's personal net worth or age as mitigants; what people who have not made it don't understand is that it's not the money but being in the hunt. And age is relative.

I have a colleague who was a GE corporate officer. He lives in a chateau in the Loire Valley. He has secured multi-generational wealth for his family and could kick back without a care in the world. But he wants in. The thought of retirement is anathema to his character and spirit.

Money isn't what drives successful individuals. It is the hunt and the kill.

I don't know Beilein but I know people at the top of their profession and the thought of not doing is hateful.

My only fear is that a John Beilein will get a lot of attention. I hope he sees Marquette as a desirable platform to continue performing at the highest possible level.

 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 04, 2020, 07:32:10 PM
Hell, if we’re gonna start over with a guy as old as Beilein, we might as well go after Hologram Al or Hologram Rick.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: panda on March 04, 2020, 08:23:32 PM
Do you think Jim Calhoun would be interested. He’s proven himself as a two time program builder!
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 05, 2020, 07:59:32 AM
Do you think Jim Calhoun would be interested. He’s proven himself as a two time program builder!

Has St. Joseph's in the Div-III tournament in only their second year of existence ever as a program.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: panda on March 05, 2020, 08:02:31 AM
Has St. Joseph's in the Div-III tournament in only their second year of existence ever as a program.

Can't argue with that. Results matter
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: NCMUFan on March 05, 2020, 08:24:43 AM
Looking like the cupboard is pretty bare.  Shuckssssssssss.
Might have to live with another year of Wojo and a top 10 recruiting class.
Wish you could see my pouty face.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: panda on March 05, 2020, 08:26:09 AM
Looking like the cupboard is pretty bare.  Shuckssssssssss.
Might have to live with another year of Wojo and a top 10 recruiting class.
Wish you could see my pouty face.

What gives you any hope he’d be able to do any better with this class than he has in the past 6 years.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on March 05, 2020, 08:27:05 AM
Looking like the cupboard is pretty bare.  Shuckssssssssss.
Might have to live with another year of Wojo and a top 10 recruiting class.
Wish you could see my pouty face.

What good does a top 10 recruiting class do if he can't Coach them up properly?? Although, I have always said, he needs the type of recruiting classes where he can essentially just roll the ball out and tell them to go play so it covers his deficiencies.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: NCMUFan on March 05, 2020, 08:37:14 AM
Buddies, Cream was hired because of his recruiting.  Buzz had very very little head coaching experience and was hired based on Creams recommendation and keeping the current team in tack.  I did not follow MU BB much in the 80s but from my take, past hires  by MU based only on coaching was a complete disaster after Majerus.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 05, 2020, 09:45:18 AM
https://sports.yahoo.com/coaching-carousel-did-a-crazy-shot-save-shaka-smarts-job-at-texas-225448415.html?src=rss
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 05, 2020, 09:51:49 AM
https://sports.yahoo.com/coaching-carousel-did-a-crazy-shot-save-shaka-smarts-job-at-texas-225448415.html?src=rss


So Manning is due a $15 million buy out at Wake.  Wow.  But they may still pay it.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: jficke13 on March 05, 2020, 09:56:51 AM
who is TJO?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JoeSmith1721 on March 05, 2020, 10:05:52 AM
who is TJO?

T.J. Otzelberger
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: jficke13 on March 05, 2020, 10:14:21 AM
Roger that. Thanks.

Is the TJO thirst a blend of "he's from Milwaukee" and "he's won elsewhere as a HC?" Or is there something else that makes people think he's available / interested in coming to MU (despite there being the tiny technicality of there being no job opening here yet)?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 05, 2020, 10:18:01 AM
Roger that. Thanks.

Is the TJO thirst a blend of "he's from Milwaukee" and "he's won elsewhere as a HC?" Or is there something else that makes people think he's available / interested in coming to MU (despite there being the tiny technicality of there being no job opening here yet)?


Multiple people I trust have said that Marquette has always been his dream gig.  He went to Thomas More and have had multiple family members involved with the school.  Not sure if that's still the case but there is very much an affinity for Marquette.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: jficke13 on March 05, 2020, 10:31:49 AM

Multiple people I trust have said that Marquette has always been his dream gig.  He went to Thomas More and have had multiple family members involved with the school.  Not sure if that's still the case but there is very much an affinity for Marquette.

Cool. Appreciate the insight. Thanks.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Litehouse on March 05, 2020, 11:08:34 AM
He had a reputation as being a great recruiting assistant when he was at Iowa State.  Basically established the WI pipeline down there and helped create "Marquette West".
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on March 05, 2020, 12:42:57 PM
He had a reputation as being a great recruiting assistant when he was at Iowa State.  Basically established the WI pipeline down there and helped create "Marquette West".

+1

He's had success recruiting the areas we have recruited, is well known and respected in the state, and has the local ties. On paper, he ticks the boxes. Seems to be a good recruiter, developer of talent, and game coach. But like all coaching possibilities, no one is a guarantee.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: LloydsLegs on March 05, 2020, 01:39:50 PM
Can't argue with that. Results matter

I did not see the teal (could have missed the implied teal?), but honestly, WTF?  Proven and punished cheater (so the board would not hire him),  currently being sued for sexual harassment and 78 years old.  Give me a break.  Results don't matter enough to hire a guy like that.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorHal on March 05, 2020, 02:22:34 PM
What good does a top 10 recruiting class do if he can't Coach them up properly?? Although, I have always said, he needs the type of recruiting classes where he can essentially just roll the ball out and tell them to go play so it covers his deficiencies.

Where does all this "top-10 recruiting class" come from? 247Sports ranks MU's class #14 and Rivals.com has us #15. Both rate all three recruits as 4 star PFs. No guards. Good so far, but not exactly Kentucky or Duke territory.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on March 05, 2020, 08:26:57 PM
Where does all this "top-10 recruiting class" come from? 247Sports ranks MU's class #14 and Rivals.com has us #15. Both rate all three recruits as 4 star PFs. No guards. Good so far, but not exactly Kentucky or Duke territory.

Was top-10 when Garcia committed, likely would be back up there if Mane joins
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 05, 2020, 09:18:36 PM

Multiple people I trust have said that Marquette has always been his dream gig.  He went to Thomas More and have had multiple family members involved with the school.  Not sure if that's still the case but there is very much an affinity for Marquette.

TJO has been terrific at two schools now and hardly schools that are easy to win at.  We should be all over it to make him an offer he can’t refuse. Especially if there’s truth to this.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 05, 2020, 09:28:35 PM
TJO has been terrific at two schools now and hardly schools that are easy to win at.  We should be all over it to make him an offer he can’t refuse. Especially if there’s truth to this.

A .500 coach getting bounced in his first conference tournament game is "terrific"?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 05, 2020, 09:34:58 PM
A .500 coach getting bounced in his first conference tournament game is "terrific"?

Didn’t realize they lost today, but doesn’t change my opinion. They were picked for 7th in conference and tied for 2nd. In his first season there after very good run at that basketball powerhouse SD St. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Miss Katie’s on March 05, 2020, 10:44:44 PM

Multiple people I trust have said that Marquette has always been his dream gig.  He went to Thomas More and have had multiple family members involved with the school.  Not sure if that's still the case but there is very much an affinity for Marquette.

Agreed there is an affinity for MU.  My daughter is currently at Thomas More, and my nephew and brother in law attended as well.  I’ve heard positives from any number of people there about TJO and his feelings about Marquette.   
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Golden Avalanche on March 06, 2020, 10:16:25 AM
Didn’t realize they lost today, but doesn’t change my opinion. They were picked for 7th in conference and tied for 2nd. In his first season there after very good run at that basketball powerhouse SD St.

That's cool. Seems a low bar to clear for "terrific" though.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 06, 2020, 04:18:06 PM
Thinking outside the box, Bob Smelling or Pat Miller? Both are clearly great at X and O coaching and are happy in Wi. Would rather them with a great recruiting assistant (like a Stan type guy) than a flyer on an assistant coach.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JWags85 on March 06, 2020, 05:56:38 PM
Thinking outside the box, Bob Smelling or Pat Miller? Both are clearly great at X and O coaching and are happy in Wi. Would rather them with a great recruiting assistant (like a Stan type guy) than a flyer on an assistant coach.

No offense, but I'd be SUPER disappointed if Marquette pursued or ended up with a D3 HC, with no affiliation to Marquette, cause they are in-state already.  Thats an "outside the box" hire you make at  a program like Milwaukee or UWGB, not one with a multi-million dollar budget playing in a top 3 basketball conference.  Pat Miller has more experience with coaching women's golf than he does managing a D1 level coach's responsibilities.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Galway Eagle on March 07, 2020, 08:56:46 AM
No offense, but I'd be SUPER disappointed if Marquette pursued or ended up with a D3 HC, with no affiliation to Marquette, cause they are in-state already.  Thats an "outside the box" hire you make at  a program like Milwaukee or UWGB, not one with a multi-million dollar budget playing in a top 3 basketball conference.  Pat Miller has more experience with coaching women's golf than he does managing a D1 level coach's responsibilities.

Recent guys like Beilein Beard and Bo Ryan make me think the coaching gap isn't as big as people imagine
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorDad on March 07, 2020, 09:06:54 AM
Where does all this "top-10 recruiting class" come from? 247Sports ranks MU's class #14 and Rivals.com has us #15. Both rate all three recruits as 4 star PFs. No guards. Good so far, but not exactly Kentucky or Duke territory.

247 had Garcia 5 star on some parts of the site and 4 star on other parts of same site.

Isn’t the takeaway here the this staff has this team on cusp of another NCAA tournament bid with 3 star guys which should mean the staff is overachieving.  What can they do with even better raw talent?  The staff took a 4/5 star in Howard and he improved to All American level. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: willie warrior on March 07, 2020, 09:54:48 AM
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/collegian.psu.edu/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/8c/08c80dcc-4976-11e9-bd81-7b5ae0bc4074/5c8f8987afd2c.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C799)
Wardle: Experienced. Excited. Educated at MU. Experienced at beating MU. Expecting to come home.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JWags85 on March 07, 2020, 10:04:16 AM
Recent guys like Beilein Beard and Bo Ryan make me think the coaching gap isn't as big as people imagine

Beard came from D2, and he was an assistant under Bobby Knight for a decade.  Also went to a low major Little Rock first.

Bo Ryan was a Wisconsin assistant for a decade but also went to a low major and had relative success (for that program) before he got the Wisconsin job.

Beilein made the jump 30 years ago, again from D2, and again to a low major.

Coaching maybe similar, sure, but it’s everything else about it is an insane leap without experience. If Miller or Smelling was a former assistant or Marquette player, I’d understand the conjecture. Otherwise, not for me

B
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on March 07, 2020, 10:12:03 AM
Beard came from D2, and he was an assistant under Bobby Knight for a decade.  Also went to a low major Little Rock first.

Bo Ryan was a Wisconsin assistant for a decade but also went to a low major after he was caught cheating and had relative success (for that program) before he got the Wisconsin job.

Beilein made the jump 30 years ago, again from D2, and again to a low major.

Coaching maybe similar, sure, but it’s everything else about it is an insane leap without experience. If Miller or Smelling was a former assistant or Marquette player, I’d understand the conjecture. Otherwise, not for me

B

FIFY
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: TAMU Eagle on March 07, 2020, 10:38:47 AM
I think the last non-D1 coach to jump straight to a high major position was Kim Anderson at Mizzou. It did not end well.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JWags85 on March 07, 2020, 10:44:10 AM
I think the last non-D1 coach to jump straight to a high major position was Kim Anderson at Mizzou. It did not end well.

There ya go, prime example. He had high major assistant experience too, however, he’d been away from D-1 for 15 years by the time he was hired. I think that played a big role.

Beard, for example, had only 5 years between leaving TTU and coming back to TTU
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JWags85 on March 07, 2020, 04:41:56 PM
Not at all an advocate for him getting the MU job, but Wardle is now a victory over a team from the bottom half of a weak MVC away from his second consecutive tourney bid.  3-1 combined on the year vs Valpo/Missouri St.  Impressive given what a mess Geno Ford left in Peoria.  If I'm his agent, my fingers are itching to start making some calls if they cut down the nets again tomorrow.  Though not sure what jobs would open up that he'd be a candidate for.  Honestly feel like he'd be a great fit at DePaul but DL probably has another year.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: LAZER on March 07, 2020, 05:29:14 PM
Not at all an advocate for him getting the MU job, but Wardle is now a victory over a team from the bottom half of a weak MVC away from his second consecutive tourney bid.  3-1 combined on the year vs Valpo/Missouri St.  Impressive given what a mess Geno Ford left in Peoria.  If I'm his agent, my fingers are itching to start making some calls if they cut down the nets again tomorrow.  Though not sure what jobs would open up that he'd be a candidate for.  Honestly feel like he'd be a great fit at DePaul but DL probably has another year.
He’s been at Bradley for 5 years. Bradley finished 5th last year in MVC before winning the MVC tournament to get a bid. He also went 0-4 this year against Northern Iowa and Loyola.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JWags85 on March 07, 2020, 05:51:06 PM
He’s been at Bradley for 5 years. Bradley finished 5th last year in MVC before winning the MVC tournament to get a bid. He also went 0-4 this year against Northern Iowa and Loyola.

Again, he’s not my choice and I don’t think he’s a perfect candidate, just credit where credit is due.  It would be the 3rd tourney appearance for Bradley in 25 years, not exactly an easy place to win.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on March 07, 2020, 05:52:25 PM
He’s been at Bradley for 5 years. Bradley finished 5th last year in MVC before winning the MVC tournament to get a bid. He also went 0-4 this year against Northern Iowa and Loyola.

And let's also be fair...the ONLY reason he is playing for a MVC title again is because both the above mentioned teams got knocked out.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: willie warrior on March 07, 2020, 06:01:57 PM
He’s been at Bradley for 5 years. Bradley finished 5th last year in MVC before winning the MVC tournament to get a bid. He also went 0-4 this year against Northern Iowa and Loyola.
And Wojo has been at MU for 6 years and hasn't done squat unless you count the last 2 years extreme meltdowns at season's end. So we know his MO very well.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 4everwarriors on March 07, 2020, 06:04:29 PM
For the record count me in as a no Wardle guy, hey?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Goose on March 07, 2020, 06:06:38 PM
4ever

Count me in as a no Wardle guy as well. I literally cannot believe that his name would even be mentioned.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: PointWarrior on March 07, 2020, 06:10:14 PM
Are you high?    Pointers are not even that high on smelling as a diiii coach.  You think he’s a way Wojo replacement - that’s rich.   


[q b uote author=Galway Eagle link=topic=60169.msg1218168#msg1218168 date=1583533086]
Thinking outside the box, Bob Smelling or Pat Miller? Both are clearly great at X and O coaching and are happy in Wi. Would rather them with a great recruiting assistant (like a Stan type guy) than a flyer on an assistant coach.
[/quote]
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: mcderjim on March 07, 2020, 06:13:09 PM
‘Make Marquette Great Again’
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: LAZER on March 07, 2020, 08:25:29 PM
And Wojo has been at MU for 6 years and hasn't done squat unless you count the last 2 years extreme meltdowns at season's end. So we know his MO very well.
I’m not following your response to my post...
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 07, 2020, 08:51:24 PM
Recent guys like Beilein Beard and Bo Ryan make me think the coaching gap isn't as big as people imagine

There isn't necessarily a coaching gap, if any.  X's and O's basketball is all the same, along with motivation.  Difference between a D3 and D1 coach usually is the recruiting component.  Not all coaches want to spend their lives recruiting players, etc.  Some just don't care for the salesman aspect of it.  There are coaches who like to coach and teach.  That's it.  You could find a lot of guys in D3 who would outcoach Wojo.  Many of the good coaches stay at their respective schools and are always getting offered.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 07, 2020, 09:25:13 PM
There isn't necessarily a coaching gap, if any.  X's and O's basketball is all the same, along with motivation.  Difference between a D3 and D1 coach usually is the recruiting component.  Not all coaches want to spend their lives recruiting players, etc.  Some just don't care for the salesman aspect of it.  There are coaches who like to coach and teach.  That's it.  You could find a lot of guys in D3 who would outcoach Wojo.  Many of the good coaches stay at their respective schools and are always getting offered.

No. I can pretty much guaranty you that “many” D3 coaches aren’t getting offered D1 jobs. They may be “always getting offers” from other D3 or low level D2 programs.  But D1 programs?  Nope.

Look at Jack Bennett. He won multiple national championships at Stevens Point. Brother of Dick. Uncle of Tony.  Really wanted the UWM job. Never got an interview.

I watch a lot of D3 basketball. The idea that there are a bunch of coaching gurus who just don’t want to deal with the hassles of D1 is laughable. Most would take a D1 job in a heartbeat. And increase their salary by a factor of ten in the process.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: We R Final Four on March 07, 2020, 09:36:44 PM

I watch a lot of D3 basketball.

I’ve never heard these words mentioned before.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: harryp on March 07, 2020, 10:19:33 PM
given the recruits coming is and the present roster, I doubt it would be wise to hire another white guy
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on March 07, 2020, 10:19:54 PM
given the recruits coming is and the present roster, I doubt it would be wise to hire another white guy

Wtf?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on March 07, 2020, 10:23:32 PM
There isn't necessarily a coaching gap, if any.  X's and O's basketball is all the same, along with motivation.  Difference between a D3 and D1 coach usually is the recruiting component.  Not all coaches want to spend their lives recruiting players, etc.  Some just don't care for the salesman aspect of it.  There are coaches who like to coach and teach.  That's it.  You could find a lot of guys in D3 who would outcoach Wojo.  Many of the good coaches stay at their respective schools and are always getting offered.

Hiring a D2 guy worked for Missouri, why not drop down another level. Oh, wait...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Anderson_(basketball)
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: shoothoops on March 07, 2020, 10:35:34 PM
Things didn’t work out for Kim Anderson but in some fairness, he did inherit Frank Haith’s NCAA violations and a mess.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: keefe on March 07, 2020, 10:47:47 PM
Faust. Gerry Faust.

One of the finest basketball minds ever was Morgan Wooten. Wooten was offered many college jobs - NC State, Wake, Duke, Georgetown, UVA - but he turned them all down.

And while he said the only job he would leave DeMatha for was Maryland he was also on record that he wasn't sure his success at high school would translate at the collegiate level.

Marquette needs to find someone from DI. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on March 07, 2020, 10:54:11 PM
I'm not a No Wardle guy, but he's not at the top of my list. If we end up with a vacancy, shoot for the stars, you can always get Wardle if other options don't work out.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: LAZER on March 07, 2020, 11:10:26 PM
I'm not a No Wardle guy, but he's not at the top of my list. If we end up with a vacancy, shoot for the stars, you can always get Wardle if other options don't work out.
I’d take Moser over Wardle.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on March 07, 2020, 11:16:19 PM
I’d take Moser over Wardle.

Not me. Moser has one NCAA appearance in 16 years and wouldn't have earned an auto-bid. He also only has one NIT bid, so it's not like he's been killing it at the mid-major level. He's Shaka Smart. One great run is the entirety of his career.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: willie warrior on March 08, 2020, 10:07:45 AM
I'm not a No Wardle guy, but he's not at the top of my list. If we end up with a vacancy, shoot for the stars, you can always get Wardle if other options don't work out.
Suspect other schools  including have the same thoughts about wojo.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: willie warrior on March 08, 2020, 10:31:56 AM
4ever

Count me in as a no Wardle guy as well. I literally cannot believe that his name would even be mentioned.
Why not Goose
 Wojo gets his name mentioned a lot around here, and we know how that is working out.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on March 08, 2020, 10:39:31 AM
I'm not a No Wardle guy, but he's not at the top of my list. If we end up with a vacancy, shoot for the stars, you can always get Wardle if other options don't work out.

Bingo! Aim high and aim often first. Make everyone say no. You can always circle back to Wardle...although that would make me cringe worthy to be honest. Still in lock step with you that IF he's healthy I'd love Thad Matta. I suppose Rick Pitino would be a non starter for MU.  8-)
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muhoops1 on March 08, 2020, 10:50:45 AM
Are you high?    Pointers are not even that high on  Semling as a diiii coach.  You think he’s a way Wojo replacement - that’s rich.   


[q b uote author=Galway Eagle link=topic=60169.msg1218168#msg1218168 date=1583533086]
Thinking outside the box, Bob Smelling or Pat Miller? Both are clearly great at X and O coaching and are happy in Wi. Would rather them with a great recruiting assistant (like a Stan type guy) than a flyer on an assistant coach.

Not a big deal but it’s Semling and they are not pumped about him in Point.  They also had some sanctions believe it or not.  Lame reasons like practicing when they shouldn’t, etc.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Herman Cain on March 08, 2020, 01:21:37 PM
I'm not a No Wardle guy, but he's not at the top of my list. If we end up with a vacancy, shoot for the stars, you can always get Wardle if other options don't work out.
I always like to see MU alumni doing well, as it is good reflection on the organization. Wardle has his team in the MVC Championship again.

https://www.pjstar.com/sports/20200307/bradley-returns-to-mvc-championship-game-plays-valparaiso
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: LAZER on March 08, 2020, 02:29:20 PM
Not me. Moser has one NCAA appearance in 16 years and wouldn't have earned an auto-bid. He also only has one NIT bid, so it's not like he's been killing it at the mid-major level. He's Shaka Smart. One great run is the entirety of his career.
He’s been consistently better than Wardle in the same conference. Don’t really want either, but outside of Wardle being an alum, not sure why’d you’d take him over Moser?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 08, 2020, 02:33:43 PM
I would like to come out publicly with my endorsement of Brian Wardle.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JWags85 on March 08, 2020, 02:44:42 PM
He’s been consistently better than Wardle in the same conference. Don’t really want either, but outside of Wardle being an alum, not sure why’d you’d take him over Moser?

Consistently?  Moser has been at Loyola for 9 years and had 2 good seasons.

First 5 years at Loyola:
25-63 in conference (2 of those years were in the easier Horizon), 1 CBI berth

Wardle
First 5 years at Bradley:
39-51 in conference, 1 NCAA, 1 pending

Moser had 4 years of program building before Wardle got to Bradley and outside of 2 senior laden seasons, he's been pretty mediocre.  Outside of 17/18 and 18/19, he's .500 in conference, including this year being 13-5.   He was bad at Illinois St too.

I'm not a Wardle to MU fan, but he has an upward trajectory in his career and programs, Moser has a fluky run and a shared conference title in 17 seasons of being a HC.  Thats the difference
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on March 08, 2020, 02:50:20 PM
He’s been consistently better than Wardle in the same conference. Don’t really want either, but outside of Wardle being an alum, not sure why’d you’d take him over Moser?

Moser has been there 9 years. The Final Four team was the only time he ever had a top-75 kenpom team (Wardle did that twice at GB). Wardle went from sub-300 to sub-200 to #124 in year 3 when Moser was going to a Final Four. Since then he's possibly on the verge of back to back NCAA berths. This year LUC is 108 in kenpom, Bradley is 113, so a negligible difference.

I can find positives from Wardle in multiple seasons at both stops. Moser's entire resume is one season. Ignore the one time in the last two decades that Moser found lightning in a bottle and it's not even close.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: nyg on March 08, 2020, 03:17:58 PM
In post season, Wardle has one CIT, two NIT and one NCAA appearances and zero wins. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 08, 2020, 03:30:31 PM
In post season, Wardle has one CIT, two NIT and one NCAA appearances and zero wins.
Is this supposed to be a knock?  He inherited a team that went 9-24 and 3-15 in conference and went to the CIT once in the previous 6 seasons.

The ceiling for Bradley is typically going to be a conference championship and NCAA appearance (which he has done twice now) because the MVC winner is almost always going to be a 14-16 seed.

He also coaches Bradley basketball from Peoria, Illinois in the Missouri Valley Conference.  You need to scale your expectations to that fact.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on March 08, 2020, 03:34:15 PM
Is this supposed to be a knock?  He inherited a team that went 9-24 and 3-15 in conference and went to the CIT once in the previous 6 seasons.

The ceiling for Bradley is typically going to be a conference championship and NCAA appearance (which he has done twice now) because the MVC winner is almost always going to be a 14-16 seed.

He also coaches Bradley basketball from Peoria, Illinois in the Missouri Valley Conference.  You need to scale your expectations to that fact.

The Missouri Valley winner is only a 14-16 seed when it’s won by a team that makes a miracle run, like Bradley has the last 2 years. Otherwise teams like UNI, Witchita State, Loyola, and, when they were in it, Creighton are nowhere close to a 14-16 seed.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 08, 2020, 03:35:47 PM
The Missouri Valley winner is only a 14-16 seed when it’s won by a team that makes a miracle run, like Bradley has the last 2 years. Otherwise teams like UNI, Witchita State, Loyola, and, when they were in it, Creighton are nowhere close to a 14-16 seed.
Wichita State isn't in the MVC.  Didn't read the rest of your comment because there is no credibility.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: nyg on March 08, 2020, 03:37:08 PM
Is this supposed to be a knock?  He inherited a team that went 9-24 and 3-15 in conference and went to the CIT once in the previous 6 seasons.

The ceiling for Bradley is typically going to be a conference championship and NCAA appearance (which he has done twice now) because the MVC winner is almost always going to be a 14-16 seed.

He also coaches Bradley basketball from Peoria, Illinois in the Missouri Valley Conference.  You need to scale your expectations to that fact.

Not a knock or I would have said so and I don’t care where he coached. It’s just a fact, he was not won a single post season game. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on March 08, 2020, 03:37:46 PM
Wichita State isn't in the MVC.  Didn't read the rest of your comment because there is no credibility.

Wichita State won the MVC in 2014 and 2017. AKA the MVC champion was a 14 seed...if you remove the 4 from that.

Good idea to not read the rest of the comment, because it just disproves everything you said. SAD!
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 08, 2020, 03:40:16 PM
Wichita State won the MVC in 2014 and 2017. AKA the MVC champion was a 14 seed...if you remove the 4 from that.

Good idea to not read the rest of the comment, because it just disproves everything you said. SAD!
0 credibility.  So petty and frustrated in all your posts.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on March 08, 2020, 03:44:39 PM
0 credibility.  So petty and frustrated in all your posts.

Says the guy claiming the MVC winner is always a 14-16 seed. They had a 1 seed within the last 6 years. Lol. But yeah I have 0 credibility.

Don’t want petty? Don’t be incompetently dumb.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 08, 2020, 03:54:27 PM
Says the guy claiming the MVC winner is always a 14-16 seed. They had a 1 seed within the last 6 years. Lol. But yeah I have 0 credibility.

Don’t want petty? Don’t be incompetently dumb.
I said "almost always", and I was talking about the current MVC - not a team that left in 2017.  UNI likely won't make the tourney now.  So for two years running, the MVC is going to send a 14-16 seed. 

Loyola had a dominant run-through conference with a team loaded with seniors and the best the committee could muster for them was an 11.

All of this aside, you've again chosen to zero in on a small semantic in my post, rather than addressing the overall spirit of the post.  Because you know you can't actually argue against that.  That's what makes your posts petty, worthless, and a waste of time.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on March 08, 2020, 04:10:08 PM
Is this supposed to be a knock?  He inherited a team that went 9-24 and 3-15 in conference and went to the CIT once in the previous 6 seasons.

The ceiling for Bradley is typically going to be a conference championship and NCAA appearance (which he has done twice now) because the MVC winner is almost always going to be a 14-16 seed.

He also coaches Bradley basketball from Peoria, Illinois in the Missouri Valley Conference.  You need to scale your expectations to that fact.

I will never understand so many people's fascination with hiring Wardle. The ONLY reason I can think of that people want him is the stability he would bring...and for some reason people FEAR, like downright fear things getting "blown up". I just don't think he'd have the recruiting chops needed to succeed at MU. That is my #1 requirement for a Coach...I want someone that has been successful at the high major level preferably and is a known fantastic recruiter.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on March 08, 2020, 04:12:18 PM
I said "almost always", and I was talking about the current MVC - not a team that left in 2017.  UNI likely won't make the tourney now.  So for two years running, the MVC is going to send a 14-16 seed. 

Loyola had a dominant run-through conference with a team loaded with seniors and the best the committee could muster for them was an 11.

All of this aside, you've again chosen to zero in on a small semantic in my post, rather than addressing the overall spirit of the post.  Because you know you can't actually argue against that.  That's what makes your posts petty, worthless, and a waste of time.

Yes, you said almost always. And you’re entirely wrong.

From 1999 through last year, the MVC champion (including Wichita State) has been seeded:

10
10
13
12
6
14
10
11
10
5
12
9
14
8
7
1
5
11
10
11
15

For an average of 9.7. 3 times in the last 21 years they’ve been seeded 14-16. Almost always baby!

Now please excuse me and my 0 credibility.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 08, 2020, 04:14:04 PM
I will never understand so many people's fascination with hiring Wardle. The ONLY reason I can think of that people want him is the stability he would bring...and for some reason people FEAR, like downright fear things getting "blown up". I just don't think he'd have the recruiting chops needed to succeed at MU. That is my #1 requirement for a Coach...I want someone that has been successful at the high major level preferably and is a known fantastic recruiter.
I don't care if we lose the whole recruiting class.  I'd rather burn the whole thing down if it was the quickest path to getting rid of Wojo.  That's how sure I am that there is no success coming from Wojo in the future short of him recruiting Zion, Barret, and Reddish 2.0.  In which case, I could coach the team to an Elite Eight.

I would also rather have a coach than a recruiter.  We don't know if Wardle can recruit at a high level.  But we also don't know that he can't.  He is getting kids to come to Peoria, Illinois.  I think he'll do fine at Marquette (particularly as an alum).
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 08, 2020, 04:14:15 PM
I will never understand so many people's fascination with hiring Wardle. The ONLY reason I can think of that people want him is the stability he would bring...and for some reason people FEAR, like downright fear things getting "blown up". I just don't think he'd have the recruiting chops needed to succeed at MU. That is my #1 requirement for a Coach...I want someone that has been successful at the high major level preferably and is a known fantastic recruiter.

Well, fine, that sounds great to me too over Wardle.  And at the risk of mimicking Cheeky,  this would be whom that’s successful and ready to drop a high major gig for MU? 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 08, 2020, 04:16:24 PM
Yes, you said almost always. And you’re entirely wrong.

From 1999 through last year, the MVC champion (including Wichita State) has been seeded:

10
10
13
12
6
14
10
11
10
5
12
9
14
8
7
1
5
11
10
11
15

For an average of 9.7. 3 times in the last 21 years they’ve been seeded 14-16. Almost always baby!

Now please excuse me and my 0 credibility.
Did you miss the part about where I said "current MVC members"?  You're constantly so desperate to disprove one little semantic, that won't help the macro-argument that we SHOULD be having, that your posts are literally not worth reading.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on March 08, 2020, 04:18:53 PM
Did you miss the part about where I said "current MVC members"?  You're constantly so desperate to disprove one little semantic, that won't help the macro-argument that we SHOULD be having, that your posts are literally not worth reading.

“The MVC winner is almost always going to get a 14-16 seed.”

Sorry, you’re wrong!
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 08, 2020, 04:21:49 PM
“The MVC winner is almost always going to get a 14-16 seed.”

Sorry, you’re wrong!
Now take a step back and ask yourself how you've furthered the overall thesis/discussion of the Wardle topic.  You can't.  Because if you can't be right, at least you can be petty.  Congrats, manes.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: jesmu84 on March 08, 2020, 04:22:58 PM
I will never understand so many people's fascination with hiring Wardle. The ONLY reason I can think of that people want him is the stability he would bring...and for some reason people FEAR, like downright fear things getting "blown up". I just don't think he'd have the recruiting chops needed to succeed at MU. That is my #1 requirement for a Coach...I want someone that has been successful at the high major level preferably and is a known fantastic recruiter.

What do you see as  the list of candidates that would consider MU at this point with your listed criteria?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on March 08, 2020, 04:24:45 PM
Well, fine, that sounds great to me too over Wardle.  And at the risk of mimicking Cheeky,  this would be whom that’s successful and ready to drop a high major gig for MU?

I'm not bagging on you for this, but this question has ALWAYS irritated me..It's not my/our job to know that. It is however Bill Scholl's job to know that, to do his due diligence, to get a ton of "no's" until you get a yes. Go at it enough times, you will get someone to say yes, I firmly believe that. I think MU's problem in the past has been not really trying for a "splashy" hire. We, the general public have no way of knowing who might be ready to move on from somewhere, why they might be, how appealing the MU job would be to them etc. But, that being said, I'd be willing to bet a large sum of $$ that SOMEONE meeting my criteria would surface if you go thru the process thoroughly enough. The odds say it would. But you never know if you don't even try.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: HutchwasClutch on March 08, 2020, 04:27:31 PM
I'm not bagging on you for this, but this question has ALWAYS irritated me..It's not my/our job to know that. It is however Bill Scholl's job to know that, to do his due diligence, to get a ton of "no's" until you get a yes. Go at it enough times, you will get someone to say yes, I firmly believe that. I think MU's problem in the past has been not really trying for a "splashy" hire. We, the general public have no way of knowing who might be ready to move on from somewhere, why they might be, how appealing the MU job would be to them etc. But, that being said, I'd be willing to bet a large sum of $$ that SOMEONE meeting my criteria would surface if you go thru the process thoroughly enough. The odds say it would. But you never know if you don't even try.

I agree completely it’s job of AD to figure that out. I just think it’s a pie in the sky wish for us. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on March 08, 2020, 04:31:13 PM
Now take a step back and ask yourself how you've furthered the overall thesis/discussion of the Wardle topic.  You can't.  Because if you can't be right, at least you can be petty.  Congrats, manes.

Can’t be right? Sorry, you’re the one claiming the MVC winner is “almost always” going to be a 14-16 seed. When the reality is they’ve averaged a 9.7 seed in the past 21 years and have been a 14-16 seed three times in that period.

Maybe you meant “almost never?” That’d be accurate. But as it stands, you certainly are not the one who is right here...
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 08, 2020, 04:36:25 PM
Can’t be right? Sorry, you’re the one claiming the MVC winner is “almost always” going to be a 14-16 seed. When the reality is they’ve averaged a 9.7 seed in the past 21 years and have been a 14-16 seed three times in that period.

Maybe you meant “almost never?” That’d be accurate. But as it stands, you certainly are not the one who is right here...
You're doing it again!  You can't help but be as petty as possible.  How about we stop fighting in the sludge and you actually grow up and try to argue the true macro points that people are making.  Unless you feel you can't?

If you disagree with the overall point - state why and stand that ground.  Don't just play back and forth semantics about trivial elements.  It's nauseating with you.  You should change your handle to "PettyWorld".  You're a bottom 5 MUScoop poster right now in terms of advancing conversation, respect, and rationality.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: LAZER on March 08, 2020, 04:45:03 PM
Consistently?  Moser has been at Loyola for 9 years and had 2 good seasons.

First 5 years at Loyola:
25-63 in conference (2 of those years were in the easier Horizon), 1 CBI berth

Wardle
First 5 years at Bradley:
39-51 in conference, 1 NCAA, 1 pending

Moser had 4 years of program building before Wardle got to Bradley and outside of 2 senior laden seasons, he's been pretty mediocre.  Outside of 17/18 and 18/19, he's .500 in conference, including this year being 13-5.   He was bad at Illinois St too.

I'm not a Wardle to MU fan, but he has an upward trajectory in his career and programs, Moser has a fluky run and a shared conference title in 17 seasons of being a HC.  Thats the difference
I’ll still stand by Moser consistently outperforming Wardle in the MVC since Wardle has been there.  And if you’re going to discount Moser’s F4 run as fluky you should consider Wardle’s NCAA appearances as fluky too.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JWags85 on March 08, 2020, 04:52:46 PM
I’ll still stand by Moser consistently outperforming Wardle in the MVC since Wardle has been there.  And if you’re going to discount Moser’s F4 run as fluky you should consider Wardle’s NCAA appearances as fluky too.

Go ahead and die on that hill then champ.

It’s fluky cause it’s his only appearance in 16 seasons as a HC.  He returned his 2 top scorers, 3 of the top 5, from that team into last year and didn’t even sniff the tournament, not even a top 125 team at the end.

Meanwhile, Wardle’s has improved each year he’s been in Peoria, culminating in a pair of tourney berths. Who did he beat to last year to get there in St Louis? Moser. Upward trajectory isn’t fluky. A random bit of success with regression to the mean? That is
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on March 08, 2020, 04:59:40 PM
I’ll still stand by Moser consistently outperforming Wardle in the MVC since Wardle has been there.  And if you’re going to discount Moser’s F4 run as fluky you should consider Wardle’s NCAA appearances as fluky too.

Wardle had better teams in his two years before the MVC in a lesser league than Moser did at LUC.

And if we dismiss each coach's best season, that leaves the three best seasons of their combined careers all belonging to Wardle in about half the time as a coach. There's a reason no one with a coherent coaching search has targeted Moser even after the Final 4.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: LAZER on March 08, 2020, 08:30:52 PM
Wardle had better teams in his two years before the MVC in a lesser league than Moser did at LUC.

And if we dismiss each coach's best season, that leaves the three best seasons of their combined careers all belonging to Wardle in about half the time as a coach. There's a reason no one with a coherent coaching search has targeted Moser even after the Final 4.
Has anyone looked at Wardle? I just think for every reason you’d want to hire Wardle, you can make a better case for Moser.

I can’t believe I started a Wardle vs Moser  debate, and don’t care to go any further, so I’ll agree to disagree.  It’s unfortunate we don’t have better things to discuss in March.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JWags85 on March 08, 2020, 08:34:56 PM
Has anyone looked at Wardle? I just think for every reason you’d want to hire Wardle, you can make a better case for Moser.

I can’t believe I started a Wardle vs Moser  debate, and don’t care to go any further, so I’ll agree to disagree.  It’s unfortunate we don’t have better things to discuss in March.

I bet he gets a look this offseason potentially.  Otherwise he was in the midst of a rebuild of a mediocre program, that doesn’t bring eyes.

I’d love to hear that “better case” for Moser outside of “he took a team to the F4” cause everything about his resume just got obliterated in this thread. Cause that sounds like “I stubbornly think you’re wrong, here’s another vague comment about how I’m right, but I’d rather end the discussion opposed to actually admitting I’m bested”  8-)
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: asdfasdf on March 08, 2020, 09:02:34 PM
I think the last non-D1 coach to jump straight to a high major position was Kim Anderson at Mizzou. It did not end well.

I think Linc darner up at uwgb was a D2 head coach prior to taking the uwgb job.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: LAZER on March 08, 2020, 11:01:35 PM
I bet he gets a look this offseason potentially.  Otherwise he was in the midst of a rebuild of a mediocre program, that doesn’t bring eyes.

I’d love to hear that “better case” for Moser outside of “he took a team to the F4” cause everything about his resume just got obliterated in this thread. Cause that sounds like “I stubbornly think you’re wrong, here’s another vague comment about how I’m right, but I’d rather end the discussion opposed to actually admitting I’m bested”  8-)
I think Moser’s resume is better, you think Wardle’s is better (neither are great), so it’s a subjective pissing match at this point, why go any further?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JWags85 on March 08, 2020, 11:24:06 PM
I think Moser’s resume is better, you think Wardle’s is better (neither are great), so it’s a subjective pissing match at this point, why go any further?

Cause it’s not subjective. Brew and I have both given valid statistical reasons why Wardle’s accomplishments are superior and you’ve not matched it with anything other than “I think” or “I feel”. I haven’t presented anything subjective, no eye test, no “I feel”.

But whatever, but maybe someone with your vision hires him next year after he goes 10-8 in conference and misses the NCAA again
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Lazar's Headband on March 09, 2020, 09:22:22 AM
I think Linc darner up at uwgb was a D2 head coach prior to taking the uwgb job.

Yes.  They almost hired Greg Gard but due to job posting time requirements, Darner had a chance to apply and UWGB went with him instead.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: LAZER on March 09, 2020, 09:36:57 AM
Cause it’s not subjective. Brew and I have both given valid statistical reasons why Wardle’s accomplishments are superior and you’ve not matched it with anything other than “I think” or “I feel”. I haven’t presented anything subjective, no eye test, no “I feel”.

But whatever, but maybe someone with your vision hires him next year after he goes 10-8 in conference and misses the NCAA again
If you prefer Wardle to Moser and think he's a better candidate than Moser, that's fine. But I'm having trouble seeing his resume as definitively better than Moser's.

Moser
Record: 257–232 (.526)
MVC Record: 162–135 (.545)   
MVC Record '15-'19: 55-35 (.611)
Conference Championships: 2
Conference Tourneys: 1
4–1 (NCAA)
0–1 (NIT)
4–0 (CBI)

Wardle
176–151 (.538)
MVC Record: 39–51 (.433)
Conference Championships: 1 (Horizon)
Conference Tourneys: 2
NCAA: 0–1
NIT: 0–2
CIT: 0–1
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: asdfasdf on March 09, 2020, 10:11:06 AM
If you prefer Wardle to Moser and think he's a better candidate than Moser, that's fine. But I'm having trouble seeing his resume as definitively better than Moser's.

Moser
Record: 257–232 (.526)
MVC Record: 162–135 (.545)   
MVC Record '15-'19: 55-35 (.611)
Conference Championships: 2
Conference Tourneys: 1
4–1 (NCAA)
0–1 (NIT)
4–0 (CBI)

Wardle
176–151 (.538)
MVC Record: 39–51 (.433)
Conference Championships: 1 (Horizon)
Conference Tourneys: 2
NCAA: 0–1
NIT: 0–2
CIT: 0–1

I think you should take into account that '15-'19 includes Wardle's first 5 seasons at Bradley, while '15-'19 excludes Moser's first 4 seasons at Loyola. 

Yes, Moser made the Final Four in year 7, but he didn't make an NCAA tournament at Loyola in any seasons prior to that. I'm not implying that Wardle will make the Final Four in his 7th year at Bradley, but he has already out performed what Moser accomplished in his first 5 years at Loyola.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 09, 2020, 10:18:35 AM
Yes, Moser made the Final Four in year 7, but he didn't make an NCAA tournament at Loyola in any seasons prior to that. I'm not implying that Wardle will make the Final Four in his 7th year at Bradley, but he has already out performed what Moser accomplished in his first 5 years at Loyola.

I thought the first 5 (or 6) years no matta.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: asdfasdf on March 09, 2020, 11:01:43 AM
I thought the first 5 (or 6) years no matta.

I don't think my previous post implies that the previous 5 or 6 years don't matter. It points out that Wardle's first 5 years at Bradley are better than Moser's first 5 years at Loyola.

If you're making this about Wojo... I would also argue that Wojo's first 5 years at Marquette are better than Moser's first 5 years at Loyola. Wojo vs. Wardle is a more complicated. Personally, I would rank Wojo higher than Wardle.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: LAZER on March 09, 2020, 11:10:45 AM
I think you should take into account that '15-'19 includes Wardle's first 5 seasons at Bradley, while '15-'19 excludes Moser's first 4 seasons at Loyola. 

Yes, Moser made the Final Four in year 7, but he didn't make an NCAA tournament at Loyola in any seasons prior to that. I'm not implying that Wardle will make the Final Four in his 7th year at Bradley, but he has already out performed what Moser accomplished in his first 5 years at Loyola.
Again, I've got no issue if people here think that Wardle has more upside and is a better candidate than Moser.  I think stating that Wardle's resume is objectively better than Moser's, doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Jockey on March 09, 2020, 11:38:51 AM
Maybe we could sucker Wisconsin into a Wojo for Gard trade.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: GoldenEagles32 on March 09, 2020, 02:23:49 PM
I remember when people didn't want Cronin... Pac12 COY
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BM1090 on March 09, 2020, 02:33:31 PM
I remember when people didn't want Cronin... Pac12 COY

Never really understood the hate for Cronin as a coach. He has struggled in March but he's won pretty consistently. Good coach.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: GoldenEagles32 on March 09, 2020, 02:54:40 PM
Never really understood the hate for Cronin as a coach. He has struggled in March but he's won pretty consistently. Good coach.
Started off 8-9 and looking like they could be in the tourney
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 12, 2020, 09:10:56 AM
If people are serious about Moser or Wardle as the next MU head coach (and think either is better than Wojo), I'm glad as hell they aren't on the BOT.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorDad on March 12, 2020, 09:19:53 AM
Maybe we could sucker Wisconsin into a Wojo for Gard trade.


Did you not read the analysis of Scoopers on Gard for much of the season?  He stinks according to our members here.  This is why analysis here on Coach Wojo is taken with a grain of salt because our eye for coaching talent here is suspect at best.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on March 12, 2020, 09:25:46 AM

Did you not read the analysis of Scoopers on Gard for much of the season?  He stinks according to our members here.  This is why analysis here on Coach Wojo is taken with a grain of salt because our eye for coaching talent here is suspect at best.

I'm perfectly fine with Gard being the coach at UW.  He'll coach a system that will get him enough regular season wins to always make the field but never have the talent to make a true run at a title.  If the Tournament is played this year, I'd be more surprised by a S16 run by them than I would by a first round upset of them.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 1SE on March 12, 2020, 04:17:39 PM
Coaching carousel will be inyerefti g this year - who gets fired for an "incomplete"?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: TedBaxter on March 12, 2020, 04:46:26 PM
How much money did the Big East schools lose with the NCAA and Big East tournaments being cancelled?  I'm not sure if there will be many firings based on this economic downturn.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Eldon on March 12, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
How much money did the Big East schools lose with the NCAA and Big East tournaments being cancelled?  I'm not sure if there will be many firings based on this economic downturn.

Au contraire.

This is when you fire your least productive workers. Corona gives you the needed cover.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Gato78 on March 12, 2020, 08:01:25 PM
How much money did the Big East schools lose with the NCAA and Big East tournaments being cancelled?  I'm not sure if there will be many firings based on this economic downturn.
I am curious about business interruption insurance and the role it may have played in these decisions. Did insurance companies decide they would rather pay to can the events rather than risk claims and lawsuits from those who were infected? Even the possibility of suit by states’ attorneys general whose states incurred big costs? All that was needed was one guy like the lawyer in New Rochelle who was responsible for quarantine of an entire city. Huge risks that were better managed by paying business interruption claims?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 12, 2020, 11:21:42 PM
I am curious about business interruption insurance and the role it may have played in these decisions. Did insurance companies decide they would rather pay to can the events rather than risk claims and lawsuits from those who were infected? Even the possibility of suit by states’ attorneys general whose states incurred big costs? All that was needed was one guy like the lawyer in New Rochelle who was responsible for quarantine of an entire city. Huge risks that were better managed by paying business interruption claims?
I believe I heard the NCAA does not have insurance for this. Not surprising, very hard to underwrite and not prudent use of money.  I don't blame them for going without, even if they could find someone write a policy
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 5DollarPitcher on March 12, 2020, 11:41:29 PM
I'm perfectly fine with Gard being the coach at UW.  He'll coach a system that will get him enough regular season wins to always make the field but never have the talent to make a true run at a title.  If the Tournament is played this year, I'd be more surprised by a S16 run by them than I would by a first round upset of them.
Should this be in teal?  Sounds like you just described Wojo.  Except Gard actually just won a conference title.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BM1090 on March 13, 2020, 12:20:54 AM
Should this be in teal?  Sounds like you just described Wojo.  Except Gard actually just won a conference title.

I think Gard has a higher floor for sure. Lower ceiling because he won't attract elite talent. Not certain Wojo will, but he's got a better shot.

Overall I do think their similar with Wojo being a better recruiter and Gard a better coach.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: TAMU Eagle on March 14, 2020, 11:29:36 PM
Baby Pitino is supposedly returning to to Minnesota next season. That was the only possible opening that I thought Wojo leaving/getting hired for was even probable. Brownell supposedly safe for another year at Clemson. Rumors seem to be that Manning's buyout is too large for Wake to fire him. Shaka looks like he is going to survive. Coronavirus likely delays NBA hiring any college coaches away. Not hearing about any major impending retirements. NCAA doesn't seem close to punishing the Sean Millers or Bill Selfs of the world.

Looks like we are in for a very mild carousel this year.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: bilsu on March 15, 2020, 10:08:38 AM
Honest question and I know we are all upset tonight, but would other coaches shy away from the Marquette job if Wojo were let go? I mean it would be 3/4 years in the tournament.
Other coaches shy away from MU, because it is hard University to recruit for. Small private non footballs schools are harder jobs than big football schools. This might be the reason we lost Shaka to Texas.
Having a recruit visit on a football weekend is much more exciting than having a recruit visit for Marquette Madness.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 15, 2020, 10:58:07 AM
Other coaches shy away from MU, because it is hard University to recruit for. Small private non footballs schools are harder jobs than big football schools. This might be the reason we lost Shaka to Texas.
Having a recruit visit on a football weekend is much more exciting than having a recruit visit for Marquette Madness.
You make some good points but 'coaches shy(ing) away from MU" is relative. MU in terms of DI jobs is extremely attractive. MU with its resources could hire almost any mid-major coach (Gonzaga, WSU, and a few others excluded). MU could hire any P-6 assistant coach. I agree MU would have a hard time hiring a P-6 head coach but so did UCLA and IU and others.

The football angle is interesting and maybe true but I have never heard any coach say that (I could be wrong). I have heard coaches talk about liking being at basketball only schools. IMO, the football money allows those schools to pay very well, which in turn makes them very attractive.

 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 15, 2020, 11:01:50 AM
I'm perfectly fine with Gard being the coach at UW.  He'll coach a system that will get him enough regular season wins to always make the field but never have the talent to make a true run at a title.  If the Tournament is played this year, I'd be more surprised by a S16 run by them than I would by a first round upset of them.

Gard is pretty good at UW for MU.  Tyler Herro’s take is the same as that of most potential recruits.  Unless ur Swedish and play in Northern Wisconsin or the sticks of Minnesota the Badgers do not pose much of a recruiting threat towards MU.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: TAMU Eagle on March 15, 2020, 11:29:50 AM
Basketball coaches have started to flock to jobs at football schools because they offer a lot more job security and support than basketball schools. If you have a bad basketball season at a football school, the fans just don't show up. If you have a below average season at a basketball school, the fans boo you at home and demand the university fire you.

Disclaimer, this isn't me criticizing our fans or the fans of any other basketball school. Just a comment on the different levels of pressure at different kinds of schools. Fans at other schools are just as crazy...but they focus their wrath on the football program. Just look at Brad Brownell at Clemson or Larry K at Utah. Tad Boyle had a good year at Colorado this year but prior to that he had a pretty uninspiring run.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 15, 2020, 12:19:16 PM
Good points TAMU. For example, the son of our family friends attends Alabama. He has never attended a Bama basketball game and could not tell me who the coach is. He goes to every football game and loves talking Bama football.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JWags85 on March 16, 2020, 04:30:04 PM
Basketball coaches have started to flock to jobs at football schools because they offer a lot more job security and support than basketball schools. If you have a bad basketball season at a football school, the fans just don't show up. If you have a below average season at a basketball school, the fans boo you at home and demand the university fire you.

Disclaimer, this isn't me criticizing our fans or the fans of any other basketball school. Just a comment on the different levels of pressure at different kinds of schools. Fans at other schools are just as crazy...but they focus their wrath on the football program. Just look at Brad Brownell at Clemson or Larry K at Utah. Tad Boyle had a good year at Colorado this year but prior to that he had a pretty uninspiring run.

I think its also about the level of the program, beyond just the "focus". 

Clemson has 5 NCAA appearances in the last 20 years.  Brownell is responsible for 2 of them, including the only S16 since the late 90s.  That likely bought him some time when his seat got hot.

Tad Boyle went to an NIT semi and 4 NCAAs in his first 6 seasons, after taking over a dumpster fire from Bzdelik who took over for Ricardo Patton, who is the picture of major conference mediocrity.  That bought him a few years which was 2 down seasons and being one of the last out last year and a top 25 team this year.

Georgia is a football school.  They were pretty quick to toss Felton and Fox when they started to fade.  Will be interesting to see what they do with Crean.

Oklahoma is a football school but again a lot of basketball tradition.  Capel had a QUICK hook once he slipped and some allegations came out.

So I think its a combo.  But your overall point, if you're a "football" school and you have a program without a sustained history of success, there is a LONG leash.  I think its more than just "not caring".  Eg: Tim Miles at Nebraska.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: TAMU Eagle on March 16, 2020, 04:51:35 PM
Clemson has 5 NCAA appearances in the last 20 years.  Brownell is responsible for 2 of them, including the only S16 since the late 90s.  That likely bought him some time when his seat got hot.

Another way of saying this is: Brownell took over for a program coming off three consecutive NCAA appearances, made the tournament in his first season with the old coach's roster, and since then has had 1 appearance in 9 seasons.

Georgia is a football school.  They were pretty quick to toss Felton and Fox when they started to fade.  Will be interesting to see what they do with Crean.

Mark Fox had the honor of being the longest tenured P6 coach without consecutive NCAA tournament appearances before getting his pink slip. Though to be fair, that was only because Andy Kennedy got fired midseason earlier that year. I'm not sure he's an example of quick to toss.

Oklahoma is a football school but again a lot of basketball tradition.  Capel had a QUICK hook once he slipped and some allegations came out.

I think the added context here is that OU just got off probation for Kelvin Sampson, so they had to make a quick change once it became known that Capel was cut from the same cloth. But maybe they would have still fired him regardless of the violations.

I'm nitpicking here, I do agree with your general premise that it is more than one thing. But being the second most important sport on campus can buy you some extra rope....plus they pay just as well (often better) then the basketball schools.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 16, 2020, 05:09:34 PM
Good points TAMU. For example, the son of our family friends attends Alabama. He has never attended a Bama basketball game and could not tell me who the coach is. He goes to every football game and loves talking Bama football.

Damn, so no chance at Nate Oats then?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: bilsu on March 16, 2020, 05:42:51 PM
You make some good points but 'coaches shy(ing) away from MU" is relative. MU in terms of DI jobs is extremely attractive. MU with its resources could hire almost any mid-major coach (Gonzaga, WSU, and a few others excluded). MU could hire any P-6 assistant coach. I agree MU would have a hard time hiring a P-6 head coach but so did UCLA and IU and others.

The football angle is interesting and maybe true but I have never heard any coach say that (I could be wrong). I have heard coaches talk about liking being at basketball only schools. IMO, the football money allows those schools to pay very well, which in turn makes them very attractive.

 
Salesmen have to sell what they have.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: shoothoops on March 16, 2020, 08:04:21 PM
Felton never had a winning league record in six seasons at UGA, one NCAA and one season better than 8ty in SEC.  Fox had two NCAA's in nine years. We'll see where Crean is after five or six seasons there. He's completed two. So far he is recruiting well.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 16, 2020, 08:59:03 PM
Salesmen have to sell what they have.
From a group of coaches that are their "Dream Jobs" and they "will never leave unless they are fired"?

I see your point.

Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: marqfan22 on March 16, 2020, 09:36:07 PM
Other coaches shy away from MU, because it is hard University to recruit for. Small private non footballs schools are harder jobs than big football schools. This might be the reason we lost Shaka to Texas.
Having a recruit visit on a football weekend is much more exciting than having a recruit visit for Marquette Madness.

So how does Gonzaga make it work?

They’re even smaller and tiny arena.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Nukem2 on March 16, 2020, 09:43:16 PM

Gonzaga recruits internationally.  What they do.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorDad on March 17, 2020, 09:14:05 AM
How does Gonzaga do it

They have kept the same coach for twenty years and they play on a soft conference that doesn’t beat them up.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 17, 2020, 09:21:25 AM
Bryce Drew to Grand Canyon University.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 17, 2020, 09:22:03 AM
They have kept the same coach for twenty years and they play on a soft conference that doesn’t beat them up.


The soft conference doesn't help with recruiting though.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorDad on March 17, 2020, 09:26:15 AM

The soft conference doesn't help with recruiting though.

If you can guarantee a kid he will go to the NCAA tournament every year and play a difficult non conference schedule it may be a net positive.  UNLV played that game for years. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 17, 2020, 09:28:08 AM
If you can guarantee a kid he will go to the NCAA tournament every year and play a difficult non conference schedule it may be a net positive.  UNLV played that game for years. 


UNLV's players were getting paid.  You think Jerry Tarkanian was out there talking about the soft Big West schedule?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: TAMU Eagle on March 17, 2020, 11:52:18 AM
Bryce Drew to Grand Canyon University.

Not a bad place to restart a career. Wouldn't be surprised if he got a second shot at a high major gig somewhere down the road
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Warrior-Eagle on March 18, 2020, 12:25:30 AM
Damn, so no chance at Nate Oats then?

Anything is Possible but NOT everything is Probable. TAMU highlights the pressure on basketball only schools with limited resources. Nate Oats is a NOJO favorite solution that inked a five year $2.5 million contract as an unproven power 6 coach with a modest $9 million buyout in year one. Resource rich football schools have changed the market for basketball only schools. Just an observation......
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 18, 2020, 07:22:44 AM
Anything is Possible but NOT everything is Probable. TAMU highlights the pressure on basketball only schools with limited resources. Nate Oats is a NOJO favorite solution that inked a five year $2.5 million contract as an unproven power 6 coach with a modest $9 million buyout in year one. Resource rich football schools have changed the market for basketball only schools. Just an observation......

Yes. And the news out yesterday about how little cash is going to be distributed to its members will disproportionately impact the non Power 5 schools and their lack of massive television contracts. The BE is somewhat sheltered from this but not completely.

Between its earlier enrollment issues, the virus and the economic problems it could cause, and the lack of NCAA credits, MU may not be in a financial position to dump Wojo and get a new coach for awhile.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 01:33:29 PM

UNLV's players were getting paid.  You think Jerry Tarkanian was out there talking about the soft Big West schedule?

No and Mark Few isn’t either.  You recruit to your strengths.  20+ win seasons (virtually guaranteed with soft schedule), consecutive NCAA appearances (same), strong out of conference schedule (ability to do because conference schedule is poor).
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorDad on March 18, 2020, 01:34:31 PM
Yes. And the news out yesterday about how little cash is going to be distributed to its members will disproportionately impact the non Power 5 schools and their lack of massive television contracts. The BE is somewhat sheltered from this but not completely.

Between its earlier enrollment issues, the virus and the economic problems it could cause, and the lack of NCAA credits, MU may not be in a financial position to dump Wojo and get a new coach for awhile.

Nor should they dump him.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 18, 2020, 03:15:34 PM
Nor should they dump him.
Gotta love a large Polish Catholic family that has your back.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Elonsmusk on March 18, 2020, 06:06:33 PM
Nor should they dump him.

Yea. Those 1-6 finishes each of the last two years punctuated by losing to lost place teams in the league was stellar.

With a 1st Team All-American. Guy can flat out coach.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 18, 2020, 07:02:02 PM
Gotta love a large Polish Catholic family that has your back.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/ac9f9c9ab4dfcac4ca7d5bfe66d30acb/tenor.gif?itemid=10120651)
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Pakuni on March 27, 2020, 10:58:35 AM
UIC hires Luke Yaklich.
He won't be around long if he has any success, but seems like a good hire to try to turn around what seems like a perpetually underachieving program.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: LAZER on March 27, 2020, 11:44:50 AM
UIC hires Luke Yaklich.
He won't be around long if he has any success, but seems like a good hire to try to turn around what seems like a perpetually underachieving program.
Yeah this seems like a really good hire for UIC. Definitely worth keeping an eye on.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on March 27, 2020, 11:46:28 AM
Rob Jeter is the new Western Illinois Head coach
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on March 27, 2020, 12:00:41 PM
Rob Jeter is the new Western Illinois Head coach
BBFran can now get his W. Illinois tickets.  ;D
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on March 27, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
No and Mark Few isn’t either.  You recruit to your strengths.  20+ win seasons (virtually guaranteed with soft schedule), consecutive NCAA appearances (same), strong out of conference schedule (ability to do because conference schedule is poor).

plus, playing in front of a packed house every night (hope and away), being the only show in town, charter flights everywhere, national TV, foreign tours once in your career, and yes, a solid education too.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on March 30, 2020, 04:14:48 PM
Saw this on Coaching changes this morning and thought it was worth posting/discussing:

Coaching Changes
@CoachingChanges
·
8h
2.2 Trillion Dollar Stimulus Package Filibuster

Schools most unhappy w current production levels + output based on investment/ability to reach expectations

Maryland
UConn
Memphis
OKST
Indiana
Texas
Marquette
Minnesota
VCU
Clemson
Georgetown
DePaul
Xavier
Missouri
SMU
Georgia

Coaching Changes
@CoachingChanges
·
8h
Schools who believe they should be
1) competing for national titles every year or so
2) competing to go to the NCAA tournament and win a game or two
3) getting some level of production based on budget spending vs return
4) previous success says it can be done
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 30, 2020, 04:24:43 PM
Saw this on Coaching changes this morning and thought it was worth posting/discussing:

Coaching Changes
@CoachingChanges
·
8h
2.2 Trillion Dollar Stimulus Package Filibuster

Schools most unhappy w current production levels + output based on investment/ability to reach expectations

Maryland
UConn
Memphis
OKST
Indiana
Texas
Marquette
Minnesota
VCU
Clemson
Georgetown
DePaul
Xavier
Missouri
SMU
Georgia

Coaching Changes
@CoachingChanges
·
8h
Schools who believe they should be
1) competing for national titles every year or so
2) competing to go to the NCAA tournament and win a game or two
3) getting some level of production based on budget spending vs return
4) previous success says it can be done


So...even if there is some superstar young coach out there just waiting to be given a chance, what makes you think he would pick MU over I4 or UT? Cuz we've already lost one to I4 and sorta lost another to UT.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 30, 2020, 05:48:28 PM

So...even if there is some superstar young coach out there just waiting to be given a chance, what makes you think he would pick MU over I4 or UT? Cuz we've already lost one to I4 and sorta lost another to UT.
100% Agree. I don't know why MU is DI hoops. I hope the idiots in charge read your post and wise up. Keep speaking the truth my friend.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: GooooMarquette on March 30, 2020, 06:07:00 PM
100% Agree. I don't know why MU is DI hoops. I hope the idiots in charge read your post and wise up. Keep speaking the truth my friend.


Wow - did you see my point as it went sailing over your head?

It had nothing to do with MU not belonging in D1, and everything to do with MU being a school that has had  most of its success lately hiring promising assistants - O’Neill, Crean, Buzz and Wojo. UT and IU, on the other hand, seem to always go for proven head coaches. So putting MU on a list with IU and UT is like putting an apple in a bag of oranges.

We can still do well in D1 - see above. We just start in a different place.

Capiche?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on March 30, 2020, 06:34:43 PM
Saw this on Coaching changes this morning and thought it was worth posting/discussing:

Coaching Changes
@CoachingChanges
·
8h
2.2 Trillion Dollar Stimulus Package Filibuster

Schools most unhappy w current production levels + output based on investment/ability to reach expectations


8h
Schools who believe they should be
1) competing for national titles every year or so
2) competing to go to the NCAA tournament and win a game or two
3) getting some level of production based on budget spending vs return
4) previous success says it can be done

This is an interesting list. Are we talking institutions or fans?  My guess is many institutions and their administrations do not feel the same way as a twitter page. Looking at each objectively:

Maryland - won the Big Ten, top 10 this past year. Probably just fine.
UConn - second year, basically rebuilding under sanctions. Actually overachieving and will jump this year
Memphis - probably overachieved this year consideration the roster issues but the administration should be nervous about long term success
OKST - definitely
Indiana - 50/50. IU fans are among the most unrealistic but yeah, I can see some questions about Archie moving forward
Texas - Yes. Hasn't lived up to expectations.
Marquette - Doing what the administration wants but the meltdowns the last two years are a serious cause for concern
Minnesota - Bringing Little Ricky back makes me wonder if they actually care about basketball
VCU - yes.
Clemson - Dabo! Look at Trevor Lawrence's hair. When does spring football start?
Georgetown - only the second year
DePaul - Remember when Mark Aguirre and Rod Strickland played here? How about Dallas Comegys.
Xavier - only the second year for Steele
Missouri - Kim Anderson really hurt that program but Cuonzo he has underachieved after the Porter experiment blew up.
SMU - Do they care enough.  They were garbage since John Koncak left and are lucky Brown didn't put them on probation. 19 wins this past season is great for them
Georgia - only TC's second year. What are we going to be ranked for football?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Pakuni on March 30, 2020, 08:58:18 PM
How/Why did this become another debate Wojo thread? There are 50 other threads to make the same arguments over and over.

Anyhow, Billy Gillespie is back in D-1.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28973220/billy-gillispie-hired-head-coach-division-bound-tarleton-state
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on March 30, 2020, 09:05:27 PM
BBFran can now get his W. Illinois tickets.  ;D

Is Pearl Kiley still his ticket broker?   :o :o :o
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: DFW HOYA on March 30, 2020, 09:48:34 PM
Georgetown - only the second year

The second year of what? Ewing is 49-46 over three years.

Three statistics that aren't encouraging:

1. Georgetown has opened in the Wednesday round of the Big East tournament in five of the last seven years.

2. In the last five years, eight of 10 Big East schools have made the NCAA's at least once. The two that have not are Georgetown and DePaul.

3. Georgetown has won a total of two (2) NCAA tournament games since 2008.



 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 31, 2020, 07:56:28 AM
The second year of what? Ewing is 49-46 over three years.

Three statistics that aren't encouraging:

1. Georgetown has opened in the Wednesday round of the Big East tournament in five of the last seven years.

2. In the last five years, eight of 10 Big East schools have made the NCAA's at least once. The two that have not are Georgetown and DePaul.

3. Georgetown has won a total of two (2) NCAA tournament games since 2008.



So the problem is deeper than just Ewing.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on March 31, 2020, 10:16:44 AM

Wow - did you see my point as it went sailing over your head?

It had nothing to do with MU not belonging in D1, and everything to do with MU being a school that has had  most of its success lately hiring promising assistants - O’Neill, Crean, Buzz and Wojo. UT and IU, on the other hand, seem to always go for proven head coaches. So putting MU on a list with IU and UT is like putting an apple in a bag of oranges.

We can still do well in D1 - see above. We just start in a different place.

Capiche?
Okay, but what was your point? The post you responded to was about MU not getting good results from their current coach. You made it sound like we should just be happy with Wojo because MU can't compete for good young coaches. That is ridiculous. Many or most good young coaches are assistants or head coaches at mid-majors. MU will have no problem getting those candidates.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: panda on March 31, 2020, 07:18:59 PM
Saw this on Coaching changes this morning and thought it was worth posting/discussing:

Coaching Changes
@CoachingChanges
·
8h
2.2 Trillion Dollar Stimulus Package Filibuster

Schools most unhappy w current production levels + output based on investment/ability to reach expectations

Maryland
UConn
Memphis
OKST
Indiana
Texas
Marquette
Minnesota
VCU
Clemson
Georgetown
DePaul
Xavier
Missouri
SMU
Georgia

Coaching Changes
@CoachingChanges
·
8h
Schools who believe they should be
1) competing for national titles every year or so
2) competing to go to the NCAA tournament and win a game or two
3) getting some level of production based on budget spending vs return
4) previous success says it can be done

It’s an understatement to say those guys do not like Wojo.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: shoothoops on April 01, 2020, 03:16:51 PM
Bryce Drew adds Ed Schilling, Jamall Walker, Casey Shaw to his Grand Canyon staff.

Interesting Jamall Walker leaving Illinois.

I added Stan’s new LMU staff to the Stan thread the other day
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 01, 2020, 07:55:34 PM
[quote author=GooooMarquette link=topic=60169.msg1228120#msg1228120 date=

It had nothing to do with MU not belonging in D1, and everything to do with MU being a school that has had  most of its success lately hiring promising assistants - O’Neill, Crean, Buzz and Wojo. UT and IU, on the other hand, seem to always go for proven head coaches. So putting MU on a list with IU and UT is like putting an apple in a bag of oranges.

Capiche?
[/quote]

And we just let Stan Johnson walk out the door. Frustrating. Wish MU gave him the keys.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 02, 2020, 03:18:58 AM
No school would have given Stan the keys in a similar situation.

Just a Cult of Stan fever dream.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Golden Avalanche on April 02, 2020, 09:37:20 AM
No school would have given Stan the keys in a similar situation.

Just a Cult of Stan fever dream.

Like the "back-up QB is best player on the team" dream in football.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: CountryRoads on April 02, 2020, 01:27:38 PM
Rothstein: DePaul's Dave Leitao has received a contract extension through the 2023-24 season, per release.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on April 02, 2020, 01:47:45 PM
Rothstein: DePaul's Dave Leitao has received a contract extension through the 2023-24 season, per release.

DePaul, like many schools, simply was not going to make a big coaching change during a global pandemic.  It's no coincidence that Leitao's extension last four years; it's the same MU continues to make.  It allows the coaching staff to assure, on the surface, that they will be here all four years to prospective recruits. 

The more telling aspect would be what the buyout figures are, if any.  It's not like Leitao had much leverage (no major, high-major program was going to give him a head coaching job, and not many jobs are even open at this point anyway). 

Regardless, until JLP is sent far away from DePaul, their men's basketball program isn't improving.  It is still shameful that we managed to lose that game to them on 3/3.  DePaul should be an easy two wins every year; the fact we continue to lose to them is a huge hurdle we need to overcome. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 4everDawson on April 02, 2020, 04:24:52 PM
Rothstein: DePaul's Dave Leitao has received a contract extension through the 2023-24 season, per release.

Finally getting NCAA sanctions proved to DePaul that Leitao really cared about winning.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JakeBarnes on April 02, 2020, 04:26:15 PM
No school would have given Stan the keys in a similar situation.

Just a Cult of Stan fever dream.

This is called a Stan stan.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 04, 2020, 11:04:51 PM
Interesting doings in Texas.

Women's coach Karen Aston was fired despite having a sterling record at the school. Her team was about to make the NCAA tournament for the 7th straight season. In 4 of those in a row (2015-18), they went S16, E8, S16, S16. Starting with her second season there, they never finished worse than 9-9 in the B12, and never finished worse than 3rd. They had three straight seasons of 15-3 in which they finished 2nd, most recently just two years ago. Career record was 184-83 (.689) overall and 93-51 (.646) in the conference.

Meanwhile, Shaka Smart just wrapped up his 5th season at the school with a career record at Texas of 90-78 (.536) overall and 40-50 (.444) in the conference. After making it to the NCAAs his first year with a team filled with his predecessor's players, he was about to miss it for the 3rd time in 4 years, without a winning conference record in any of those seasons. He has yet to win an NCAA tourney game in 5 years at Texas despite arriving as the most-hyped candidate available. Attendance has been poor.

Smart's team actually came back from the dead late this past season, winning 5 straight games to get on the bubble. But then they finished the regular season with an inexplicable 22-point home loss to another bubble team, Oklahoma.

The Texas AD said last week that he was sticking with Smart, who has 3 years and $10.5 million left on his contract. However, the AD acknowledged “angst around our basketball program," and didn't seem ready to extend Smart's contract. Texas insiders speculated that if they fired Smart, the replacement coach likely would have to be paid at least $1 million to $2 million more annually.

Aston's $800K per year contract was allowed to expire.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Boston Warrior on April 04, 2020, 11:18:11 PM
This is the dilemma around wojo...

Like Shaka.. do you pay more for a proven peer?

Do you get a good outside assistant  and lose the recruits...

Or continue to roll the dice with wojo...

Status quo is easiest especially if reason for optimism

Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on April 05, 2020, 12:29:29 AM
Interesting doings in Texas.

Women's coach Karen Aston was fired despite having a sterling record at the school. Her team was about to make the NCAA tournament for the 7th straight season. In 4 of those in a row (2015-18), they went S16, E8, S16, S16. Starting with her second season there, they never finished worse than 9-9 in the B12, and never finished worse than 3rd. They had three straight seasons of 15-3 in which they finished 2nd, most recently just two years ago. Career record was 184-83 (.689) overall and 93-51 (.646) in the conference.

Meanwhile, Shaka Smart just wrapped up his 5th season at the school with a career record at Texas of 90-78 (.536) overall and 40-50 (.444) in the conference. After making it to the NCAAs his first year with a team filled with his predecessor's players, he was about to miss it for the 3rd time in 4 years, without a winning conference record in any of those seasons. He has yet to win an NCAA tourney game in 5 years at Texas despite arriving as the most-hyped candidate available. Attendance has been poor.

Smart's team actually came back from the dead late this past season, winning 5 straight games to get on the bubble. But then they finished the regular season with an inexplicable 22-point home loss to another bubble team, Oklahoma.

The Texas AD said last week that he was sticking with Smart, who has 3 years and $10.5 million left on his contract. However, the AD acknowledged “angst around our basketball program," and didn't seem ready to extend Smart's contract. Texas insiders speculated that if they fired Smart, the replacement coach likely would have to be paid at least $1 million to $2 million more annually.

Aston's $800K per year contract was allowed to expire.

I'm glad you brought this here MU82, I saw this the other night..Yes, it's women's basketball, but the first thing I thought of was hoping TAMU would see this because he always says "no school fires a Coach coming off an NCAA bid etc"(let alone one with her resume)..well...they do.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 05, 2020, 01:08:16 AM
I'm glad you brought this here MU82, I saw this the other night..Yes, it's women's basketball, but the first thing I thought of was hoping TAMU would see this because he always says "no school fires a Coach coming off an NCAA bid etc"(let alone one with her resume)..well...they do.

Men's basketball and women's basketball are very different animals. Give me examples from men's basketball where a non blue blood fired a coach coming off 2 consecutive NCAATs, cause I can only think of one in the past 20 years.

Also, my guess is that Aston's firing had zero to do with her performance on the court.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 05, 2020, 09:10:48 AM
I'm glad you brought this here MU82, I saw this the other night..Yes, it's women's basketball, but the first thing I thought of was hoping TAMU would see this because he always says "no school fires a Coach coming off an NCAA bid etc"(let alone one with her resume)..well...they do.

I tend to agree with TAMU on Aston's firing likely having little to do with her record. Women's basketball does not get the press that men's basketball does, so it's less likely that other reasons will be made known. It's worth noting that Aston was allowed to get to the end of her contract -- something that just about never happens with a men's basketball coach, especially one coming off three straight 15-3 conference seasons. You're smart enough to know all of that.

But yes, there have been schools that have fired coaches that had made the NCAAs in consecutive years. They can be counted on one hand, but there have been a few in recent history.

Rick Barnes actually was one of those coaches fired by a non-blueblood despite going to consecutive NCAA tournaments -- and 16 in 17 years. It's working out superbly at Texas with his replacement, that's for sure.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: shoothoops on April 05, 2020, 09:11:46 AM
Men's basketball and women's basketball are very different animals. Give me examples from men's basketball where a non blue blood fired a coach coming off 2 consecutive NCAATs, cause I can only think of one in the past 20 years.

Also, my guess is that Aston's firing had zero to do with her performance on the court.

The short answer is 95 miles. That is the distance between Waco and Austin. Aston’s record vs Baylor in those 8 years? 1-18.

Baylor’s record vs Texas prior to Kim Mulkey 9-47.

One elite 8, a handful of other Sweet 16’s would be welcomed and even celebrated many other places. Zero Big 12 Titles, 32-47 vs Top 25 teams. Pushing 7 figures with incentives in her expiring deal.

At Baylor, Mulkey has made the NCAA’s every year but one. Not counting this past season her 20th there, it was 18 of 19. That also includes the past 10 straight Big 12 Titles. 3 National Titles. One additional Final Four, 5 additional Elite 8’s, 5 additional Sweet 16’s.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on April 05, 2020, 09:22:18 AM
Aston’s record vs Baylor in those 8 years? 1-18.

So infinitely more successful than the entire AAC was against UConn?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 05, 2020, 09:28:03 AM
The short answer is 95 miles. That is the distance between Waco and Austin. Aston’s record vs Baylor in those 8 years? 1-18.

Baylor’s record vs Texas prior to Kim Mulkey 9-47.

One elite 8, a handful of other Sweet 16’s would be welcomed and even celebrated many other places. Zero Big 12 Titles, 32-47 vs Top 25 teams. Pushing 7 figures with incentives in her expiring deal.

At Baylor, Mulkey has made the NCAA’s every year but one. Not counting this past season her 20th there, it was 18 of 19. That also includes the past 10 straight Big 12 Titles. 3 National Titles. One additional Final Four, 5 additional Elite 8’s, 5 additional Sweet 16’s.

So you think Aston was fired because she was not Mulkey and Texas was not Baylor?

Perhaps, but that's pretty tough.

If so, nobody can accuse of the Texas AD for settling for "mediocrity." As long as one doesn't count sticking with Shaka, of course.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: shoothoops on April 05, 2020, 09:45:01 AM
So you think Aston was fired because she was not Mulkey and Texas was not Baylor?

Perhaps, but that's pretty tough.

If so, nobody can accuse of the Texas AD for settling for "mediocrity." As long as one doesn't count sticking with Shaka, of course.

It’s a combination of things.

Shaka has 3 years left on his guaranteed contract that has been top 15 Nationally in terms of compensation.

Aston’s close to 7 figure deal was expiring.

Texas paid more than $10 million to make Charlie Strong go away in football and it wasn’t likely going to do that for hoops.

Shaka just completed his 5th season so there is obviously chatter about his status at this point.

Texas Women’s Hoops used to be a thing. From 1985-1997 they had an undefeated season, National Title, top 5 women’s hoops attendance. (Now they get less than both Baylor and Texas A&M. A lot has changed at Texas and in Austin since that time.






Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: dad's couch on April 05, 2020, 09:54:52 AM
Last July, the No. 8 overall prospect in the 2018 class rankings, Sedona Prince, a 6-7 post from Liberty Hill in the Austin area, transferred to Oregon after sitting out her freshman year recovering from a broken leg, citing "medical reasons."

She later told the "Pour Your Heart Out" podcast that she felt "neglected" during her recovery.

"I felt very alone through my entire process and I felt very unsafe to the point to where I couldn't -- for my career and my body that I'm going to have the rest of my life -- I couldn't stay," she said. "I couldn't be there and allow myself to be hurt anymore, allow myself to be neglected anymore. That's when I decided to transfer."

The Longhorns' 2017 recruiting class featured three ESPN 100 recruits who all transferred prior to their junior seasons: Rellah Boothe, ranked as the country's No. 1 forward; Chasity Patterson, considered the No. 1 guard; and Destiny Littleton, the No. 10 guard.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 05, 2020, 01:00:00 PM
Last July, the No. 8 overall prospect in the 2018 class rankings, Sedona Prince, a 6-7 post from Liberty Hill in the Austin area, transferred to Oregon after sitting out her freshman year recovering from a broken leg, citing "medical reasons."

She later told the "Pour Your Heart Out" podcast that she felt "neglected" during her recovery.

"I felt very alone through my entire process and I felt very unsafe to the point to where I couldn't -- for my career and my body that I'm going to have the rest of my life -- I couldn't stay," she said. "I couldn't be there and allow myself to be hurt anymore, allow myself to be neglected anymore. That's when I decided to transfer."

The Longhorns' 2017 recruiting class featured three ESPN 100 recruits who all transferred prior to their junior seasons: Rellah Boothe, ranked as the country's No. 1 forward; Chasity Patterson, considered the No. 1 guard; and Destiny Littleton, the No. 10 guard.

Good stuff. Thanks for posting this insight.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on April 05, 2020, 04:33:06 PM
Vic Schaefer is the new women's basketball coach at Texas, after spending the past eight seasons building a powerhouse at Mississippi State.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: shoothoops on April 05, 2020, 07:13:41 PM
Vic Schaefer is the new women's basketball coach at Texas, after spending the past eight seasons building a powerhouse at Mississippi State.

Two National Title games and an Elite 8 in the past three NCAA's. Big success there.

He also happens to have been an assistant at Texas A&M during their 2011 National Title run...which includes a win over Baylor along the way. As a head coach at Mississippi St., his Bulldogs knocked Baylor out of the Elite 8 in 2017.

Houston native, Texas A&M grad. assistant at Arkansas and A&M. He had just one winning season in seven as a very young Sam Houston State head coach.

He made $1.6 million at Mississippi St. and is rumored to be getting $2 million per year at Texas.

New Arena opens 2021. They are gonna take their shot at Baylor and the women's college hoops elite.





Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JWags85 on April 05, 2020, 08:09:28 PM
Two National Title games and an Elite 8 in the past three NCAA's. Big success there.

He also happens to have been an assistant at Texas A&M during their 2011 National Title run...which includes a win over Baylor along the way. As a head coach at Mississippi St., his Bulldogs knocked Baylor out of the Elite 8 in 2017.

Houston native, Texas A&M grad. assistant at Arkansas and A&M. He had just one winning season in seven as a very young Sam Houston State head coach.

He made $1.6 million at Mississippi St. and is rumored to be getting $2 million per year at Texas.

New Arena opens 2021. They are gonna take their shot at Baylor and the women's college hoops elite.

Tremendous hire. MSU had little WBB history to speak of, one decent year a decade ago with their previous coach.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 05, 2020, 10:29:09 PM
Two National Title games and an Elite 8 in the past three NCAA's. Big success there.

He also happens to have been an assistant at Texas A&M during their 2011 National Title run...which includes a win over Baylor along the way. As a head coach at Mississippi St., his Bulldogs knocked Baylor out of the Elite 8 in 2017.

Houston native, Texas A&M grad. assistant at Arkansas and A&M. He had just one winning season in seven as a very young Sam Houston State head coach.

He made $1.6 million at Mississippi St. and is rumored to be getting $2 million per year at Texas.

New Arena opens 2021. They are gonna take their shot at Baylor and the women's college hoops elite.

Well then ... dumping the other coach now makes a lot of sense.

Why can't Marquette dump Wojo and hire a coach who has been to two national title games and an Elite 8 in the last 3 NCAAs? Why settle for mediocrity?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: shoothoops on April 06, 2020, 08:41:25 AM
Well then ... dumping the other coach now makes a lot of sense.

Why can't Marquette dump Wojo and hire a coach who has been to two national title games and an Elite 8 in the last 3 NCAAs? Why settle for mediocrity?

For perspective, Scott Merritt left MU to be an assistant at Illinois. The salary of the departing assistant was $250k, and the head coach is on a $3.3 million deal over six years, not uncluding perks and incentives. The head coach MU's Carolyn Kieger replaced at Penn St. was making $3.5 million over five years, not including perks and incentives. Both of these have been struggling Big Ten, Power 5, programs.



Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 06, 2020, 10:45:09 AM
Well then ... dumping the other coach now makes a lot of sense.

Why can't Marquette dump Wojo and hire a coach who has been to two national title games and an Elite 8 in the last 3 NCAAs? Why settle for mediocrity?

Why'd you give guru your password?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Elonsmusk on April 06, 2020, 12:57:36 PM
Two National Title games and an Elite 8 in the past three NCAA's. Big success there.

He also happens to have been an assistant at Texas A&M during their 2011 National Title run...which includes a win over Baylor along the way. As a head coach at Mississippi St., his Bulldogs knocked Baylor out of the Elite 8 in 2017.

Houston native, Texas A&M grad. assistant at Arkansas and A&M. He had just one winning season in seven as a very young Sam Houston State head coach.

He made $1.6 million at Mississippi St. and is rumored to be getting $2 million per year at Texas.

New Arena opens 2021. They are gonna take their shot at Baylor and the women's college hoops elite.

Wow.  $2M for a head coach in NCAAW Basketball?  Wonder how much revenue our women's team generates for the University.  Anyone have any context?

Men's Head Coaching salaries soon will be $4M/season for a decent coach.  Wonder how basketball only schools will be able to continue to compete.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 4everDawson on April 06, 2020, 01:28:41 PM
Well then ... dumping the other coach now makes a lot of sense.

Why can't Marquette dump Wojo and hire a coach who has been to two national title games and an Elite 8 in the last 3 NCAAs? Why settle for mediocrity?

You’re right, we settled for the wrong Dookie.

😁
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: shoothoops on April 06, 2020, 02:48:47 PM
Wow.  $2M for a head coach in NCAAW Basketball?  Wonder how much revenue our women's team generates for the University.  Anyone have any context?

Men's Head Coaching salaries soon will be $4M/season for a decent coach.  Wonder how basketball only schools will be able to continue to compete.

And UConn and Geno Auriemma will be re-joining the Big East. He is finishing up a 5 year $13 million deal not counting perks and incentives that pushed it towards $3 million. He has also been able to keep long term various assistants over the years because of the high assistant pay of a top program. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 05:38:55 PM
Why'd you give guru your password?

Why'd you lose your ability to see sarcasm?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on April 06, 2020, 06:08:18 PM
For perspective, Scott Merritt left MU to be an assistant at Illinois. The salary of the departing assistant was $250k, and the head coach is on a $3.3 million deal over six years, not uncluding perks and incentives. The head coach MU's Carolyn Kieger replaced at Penn St. was making $3.5 million not including perks and incentives. Both of these have been struggling Big Ten, Power 5, programs.

Football and TV money right there.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: asdfasdf on April 06, 2020, 06:43:16 PM
Football and TV money right there.

Yeah. This numbers are pretty shocking. The wbb head coach at Penn State made more than Wojo? That is surprising.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on April 06, 2020, 07:44:16 PM
Yeah. This numbers are pretty shocking. The wbb head coach at Penn State made more than Wojo? That is surprising.

They have to show some equity with men's sports, so WBB is ideal to keep up with what Franklin is making for football.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 06, 2020, 08:16:47 PM
Why'd you lose your ability to see sarcasm?

Same question to you, pardner.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 06, 2020, 09:41:16 PM
Same question to you, pardner.

Ah ... the ol' double-sarcasm switcheroo. Well, you got me!
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MUDPT on April 06, 2020, 10:10:51 PM
Jordan Sperber’s excellent newsletter last week. Coaches that have exceeded their pre season KenPom efficiency margin every year:

Other coaches who have outperformed preseason expectations in every season:

Chris Holtmann (8-for-8)
Pat Kelsey (8-for-8)
Craig Smith (6-for-6)
Mark Pope (5-for-5)
Steve Forbes (5-for-5)
Grant McCasland (4-for-4)
Heath Schroyer (4-for-4)
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Goatherder on April 06, 2020, 11:57:09 PM
Last July, the No. 8 overall prospect in the 2018 class rankings, Sedona Prince, a 6-7 post from Liberty Hill in the Austin area, transferred to Oregon after sitting out her freshman year recovering from a broken leg, citing "medical reasons."

She later told the "Pour Your Heart Out" podcast that she felt "neglected" during her recovery.

"I felt very alone through my entire process and I felt very unsafe to the point to where I couldn't -- for my career and my body that I'm going to have the rest of my life -- I couldn't stay," she said. "I couldn't be there and allow myself to be hurt anymore, allow myself to be neglected anymore. That's when I decided to transfer."

The Longhorns' 2017 recruiting class featured three ESPN 100 recruits who all transferred prior to their junior seasons: Rellah Boothe, ranked as the country's No. 1 forward; Chasity Patterson, considered the No. 1 guard; and Destiny Littleton, the No. 10 guard.

If God had wanted Texans to ski, He would have made bullcrap white.  Look, this is Texas we are talking about.  Logic does not necessarily have anything to do with it.  As noted, Aston had a great recruiting class with three top-100 players and lost them all.  And she lost this one.  The other side of it is that her remaining players could not stop talking about how great she was. 

Aston's predecessor was a coach who had reached the Final Four at Duke, another place with kind of high expectations, and she got burned out and quit.  Aston was a longtime assistant to the legendary coach that built the Texas program and lead it to the Final Four.  That of course was before Baylor became one of the top programs in the nation.  Reportedly, Aston's former boss and the AD who hired her who was still in charge of the women's program were constantly on her back and she was relieved to be relieved.  She was not coming back anyway. 

When Pat Summitt was the queen of college basketball, the other schools in the SEC all got better competing with UT, and they did not all fire their coaches because they could not regularly beat them.  Similarly, even when the Big East was the strongest conference out there and put three teams in the final four, schools were not firing their coaches because they could not consistently beat Auriemma and UConn.  But those conferences did not include Texas - and at least the Big East ones all have snow. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 07, 2020, 08:15:25 AM
The University of Texas' problem is that they have a higher view of themselves than almost everyone outside of Texas has of them.  They're not the epicenter of football.  They aren't a basketball power.

They are reaping what they sowed.  By strong arming themselves in the Big 12 for the sake of more money, they drove away four good schools who had other options and replaced them with schools that were desperate for a P5 lifeline.  So they've weakened the brand of the conference, and themselves in the process.

But do you think they are self-reflective enough to realize this?  Oh no.  They are not.  They will keep doing what they do and get frustrated when the results don't work.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 07, 2020, 09:24:54 AM
The University of Texas' problem is that they have a higher view of themselves than almost everyone outside of Texas has of them.  They're not the epicenter of football.  They aren't a basketball power.

They are reaping what they sowed.  By strong arming themselves in the Big 12 for the sake of more money, they drove away four good schools who had other options and replaced them with schools that were desperate for a P5 lifeline.  So they've weakened the brand of the conference, and themselves in the process.

But do you think they are self-reflective enough to realize this?  Oh no.  They are not.  They will keep doing what they do and get frustrated when the results don't work.

I like this take.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on April 07, 2020, 09:38:22 AM
Yeah. This numbers are pretty shocking. The wbb head coach at Penn State made more than Wojo? That is surprising.

I read it as $3.5M over 5 years not per year.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: DFW HOYA on April 09, 2020, 03:10:56 PM
The University of Texas' problem is that they have a higher view of themselves than almost everyone outside of Texas has of them. 

Notre Dame is altogether humble compared to the Longhorns.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on April 25, 2020, 09:03:52 AM
Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanHoops
·
4m
Wake Forest has parted ways with Danny Manning, sources told @Stadium
.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 25, 2020, 09:10:13 AM
Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanHoops
·
4m
Wake Forest has parted ways with Danny Manning, sources told @Stadium
.


Whoa.  That came out of nowhere.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on April 25, 2020, 09:18:44 AM

Whoa.  That came out of nowhere.

This is probably why it took this long...who the unnatural carnal knowledge gives a buyout like this??

Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
·
7m
Source confirms that Wake Forest has parted ways with Danny Manning.

Manning is owed over $15 million dollars as part of his buyout.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on April 25, 2020, 09:38:32 AM
That's a lot to spend to send a guy away. Be interesting to see what their search looks like.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Hards_Alumni on April 25, 2020, 09:47:47 AM
This is probably why it took this long...who the unnatural carnal knowledge gives a buyout like this??

Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
·
7m
Source confirms that Wake Forest has parted ways with Danny Manning.

Manning is owed over $15 million dollars as part of his buyout.

holy smokes!
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: GooooMarquette on April 25, 2020, 10:00:45 AM
This is probably why it took this long...who the unnatural carnal knowledge gives a buyout like this??

Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
·
7m
Source confirms that Wake Forest has parted ways with Danny Manning.

Manning is owed over $15 million dollars as part of his buyout.



Yeah, with Manning's record, he probably would have been gone long ago if it wasn't for that insane buyout.

One winning season in six years; never finished higher than 10th in a 16-team conference; overall record of 78-111 and conference record of 30-80. All for a mere $2M/year.

Makes Dave Leitao look like a bargain....

Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorPride68 on April 25, 2020, 10:17:26 AM
Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanHoops
·
4m
Wake Forest has parted ways with Danny Manning, sources told @Stadium
.

Damnit! Wojo back to Carolina
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on April 25, 2020, 10:23:35 AM
That's a lot to spend to send a guy away. Be interesting to see what their search looks like.

I think the answer is in here...

Kevin Sweeney
@CBB_Central
·
20m
Wake Forest just hired a search firm. Wes Miller’s parents are trustees at Wake and his dad’s name is on the practice facility. Ryan Odom’s dad coached Wake.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: shoothoops on April 25, 2020, 10:34:08 AM
That's a lot to spend to send a guy away. Be interesting to see what their search looks like.


Some early names include:

Wes Miller, at NC Greensboro, Ryan Odom at UMBC, Pat Kelsey at Winthrop, Steve Forbes at East Tennessee St., Earl Grant at College of Charleston, among others.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on April 25, 2020, 10:37:30 AM
Odom I could see. Hiring Wes Miller seems like a questionable choice. Would be a poor look when he leaves for a conference rival just up Tobacco Road as soon as Roy retires.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 25, 2020, 10:48:13 AM
Buyouts = just about meaningless.

If a school wants out badly enough, it will find a way.

And we all know that "just about" can be removed from the equation when it comes to coaches leaving one school for another.

The main concession I'll make to the above is that buyouts aren't meaningless to the coach. Manning is damn happy he'll get $15 million for sitting on his arse. The coach gets the best of both worlds: nearly total free agency on the high end, and protection against his own incompetence on the low end.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 25, 2020, 10:56:21 AM
I think the answer is in here...

Kevin Sweeney
@CBB_Central
·
20m
Wake Forest just hired a search firm. Wes Miller’s parents are trustees at Wake and his dad’s name is on the practice facility. Ryan Odom’s dad coached Wake.


Looks like he is a former Trustee because he is not currently on their Board list.  Which is good if that's why they want to hire since it lessens the conflicts of interest.  Doesn't eliminate them however.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: genious expert on April 25, 2020, 12:49:55 PM
https://twitter.com/coachingchanges/status/1254099334951571456?s=21

Names for Wake Forest targets & more to come/cross-off as we hear them.
Wes Miller
Steve Forbes
Pat Kelsey
Ryan Odom
Shaka Smart
Steve Wojciechowski
Mark Prosser
LaVall Jordan
Eric Konkol

Dark Horse
Kelvin Sampson
John Beilein
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Nukem2 on April 25, 2020, 01:00:36 PM
https://twitter.com/coachingchanges/status/1254099334951571456?s=21

Names for Wake Forest targets & more to come/cross-off as we hear them.
Wes Miller
Steve Forbes
Pat Kelsey
Ryan Odom
Shaka Smart
Steve Wojciechowski
Mark Prosser
LaVall Jordan
Eric Konkol

Dark Horse
Kelvin Sampson
John Beilein
Beilein is an interesting possibility.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on April 25, 2020, 01:10:03 PM
I think the answer is in here...

Kevin Sweeney
@CBB_Central
·
20m
Wake Forest just hired a search firm. Wes Miller’s parents are trustees at Wake and his dad’s name is on the practice facility. Ryan Odom’s dad coached Wake.

Search firms are such a waste of money. Look at Todd Turner’s as a perfect example and when they did at Pitt. With all of the high quality candidates in the region it’s a waste of money.

Considering Odom’s success and his dad’s standing at Wake I could see him being the early favorite.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on April 25, 2020, 01:12:41 PM
Beilein is an interesting possibility.

Doubt they can afford him after paying Manning's insane buyout
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on April 25, 2020, 01:18:57 PM
Doubt they can afford him after paying Manning's insane buyout

Would he command much considering his buyout from Cleveland?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on April 25, 2020, 01:23:01 PM
Would he command much considering his buyout from Cleveland?

Maybe MU should offer him a volunteer assistant position. “Hey John, you’re getting paid more from Cleveland than Wojo is from us. Want to come give Wojo a hand for free? You don’t really need any more than you already make.”
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Nukem2 on April 25, 2020, 01:34:25 PM
Would he command much considering his buyout from Cleveland?
Don’t know that he got much of a buyout from the cavs as opposed to a probable modest settlement for the 19-20 season.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 25, 2020, 01:45:24 PM
Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanHoops
·
4m
Wake Forest has parted ways with Danny Manning, sources told @Stadium
.


Heer's hour chance, aina?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 25, 2020, 02:12:10 PM
Search firms are such a waste of money. Look at Todd Turner’s as a perfect example and when they did at Pitt. With all of the high quality candidates in the region it’s a waste of money.

Considering Odom’s success and his dad’s standing at Wake I could see him being the early favorite.


Search firms can be used for much more than the "search" part of the hiring process.  Just because one school f*cked up their search with a firm, doesn't mean they don't add value.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on April 25, 2020, 02:47:11 PM
Where is Jay Wright's name? He's a candidate for every opening.  ;)
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 25, 2020, 02:52:29 PM

Heer's hour chance, aina?

Nah. No coach in his right mind would ever leave Marquette for a worse-than-mediocre ACC job. It's never ever happened, and it never will.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 25, 2020, 04:46:24 PM
Nah. No coach in his right mind would ever leave Marquette for a worse-than-mediocre ACC job. It's never ever happened, and it never will.

A big Tim Duncan and Chris Paul fan might?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on April 25, 2020, 05:01:50 PM
Nah. No coach in his right mind would ever leave Marquette for a worse-than-mediocre ACC job. It's never ever happened, and it never will.
LOL. Well played.

FWIW, good or bad, nothing about Wojo on the WF fan board.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 25, 2020, 05:36:50 PM
https://twitter.com/coachingchanges/status/1254099334951571456?s=21

Names for Wake Forest targets & more to come/cross-off as we hear them.
Wes Miller
Steve Forbes
Pat Kelsey
Ryan Odom
Shaka Smart
Steve Wojciechowski
Mark Prosser
LaVall Jordan
Eric Konkol

Dark Horse
Kelvin Sampson
John Beilein

My pick would be Dark Horse. Native Americans are grossly  under represented in the coaching ranks of college basketball.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on April 25, 2020, 06:35:25 PM
My pick would be Dark Horse. Native Americans are grossly  under represented in the coaching ranks of college basketball.
Now that's some funny sh!t. Thanks.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Skip Intro on April 25, 2020, 07:29:02 PM
My pick would be Dark Horse. Native Americans are grossly  under represented in the coaching ranks of college basketball.

This was fantastic.

And I actually do think it'll be Beilein, just based on the odd timing of Manning's firing.  Coming off of the NBA disappointment, he can restart in a great conference (and one of the few that he hasn't coached in), but with relatively low expectations from day one.  And Wake can pay him a very good salary - not the highest, for sure, but I highly doubt money is going to dictate his moves from this point on in his career. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on April 25, 2020, 08:05:09 PM
This was fantastic.

And I actually do think it'll be Beilein, just based on the odd timing of Manning's firing.  Coming off of the NBA disappointment, he can restart in a great conference (and one of the few that he hasn't coached in), but with relatively low expectations from day one.  And Wake can pay him a very good salary - not the highest, for sure, but I highly doubt money is going to dictate his moves from this point on in his career. 
This was fantastic.

And I actually do think it'll be Beilein, just based on the odd timing of Manning's firing.  Coming off of the NBA disappointment, he can restart in a great conference (and one of the few that he hasn't coached in), but with relatively low expectations from day one.  And Wake can pay him a very good salary - not the highest, for sure, but I highly doubt money is going to dictate his moves from this point on in his career.
I'm no Wake Forest insider but there has been no talk of him on their Scoop.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on April 25, 2020, 08:18:47 PM
I'm no Wake Forest insider but there has been no talk of him on their Scoop.

I don't think they can afford Beilein. Donor ponied up for the buyout, but Beilein would likely command twice the salary they'd be willing to offer.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Herman Cain on April 25, 2020, 08:25:29 PM
Why'd you give guru your password?
Post of the week
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Newsdreams on April 25, 2020, 08:30:59 PM
Post of the week month?
Week?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorDad on April 25, 2020, 08:56:08 PM
Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanHoops
·
4m
Wake Forest has parted ways with Danny Manning, sources told @Stadium
.

Wake Forest has been less than Wake Forest for more than a decade.  When Wake hired Manning it was considered a very good hire nationally and it did not work out.   Why do some people want to roll the dice and get into a Wake Forest situation of a decade or more of bad results?

Wake has the benefit of ACC football money.  Marquette does not. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on April 25, 2020, 09:34:46 PM
Wake Forest has been less than Wake Forest for more than a decade.  When Wake hired Manning it was considered a very good hire nationally and it did not work out.   Why do some people want to roll the dice and get into a Wake Forest situation of a decade or more of bad results?

Wake has the benefit of ACC football money.  Marquette does not.
Wake has the expense of paying for P5 football too.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on April 25, 2020, 09:56:40 PM
Wake Forest has been less than Wake Forest for more than a decade.  When Wake hired Manning it was considered a very good hire nationally and it did not work out.   Why do some people want to roll the dice and get into a Wake Forest situation of a decade or more of bad results?

Wake has the benefit of ACC football money.  Marquette does not.

Skip Prosser’s death was a tragedy and one that shook the foundation of WFU basketball. Dino Gaudio did a very respectable job carrying on for Prosser taking them to the tourney twice and winning one game. Then a new AD fired Gaufio to being in his buddy, Jeff Bzdelik and the program has never been the same.

MU is a much better job than Wake. Wake is a small, private school with high academic standards in a conference dominated by a Duke and large public schools with low academic standards and huge budgets. You need a special player, like Childress, Duncan, Paul or Aminu to fall yo you to win at at Wake and those are few and far between.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on April 25, 2020, 10:22:06 PM
Skip Prosser’s death was a tragedy and one that shook the foundation of WFU basketball. Dino Gaudio did a very respectable job carrying on for Prosser taking them to the tourney twice and winning one game. Then a new AD fired Gaufio to being in his buddy, Jeff Bzdelik and the program has never been the same.

MU is a much better job than Wake. Wake is a small, private school with high academic standards in a conference dominated by a Duke and large public schools with low academic standards and huge budgets. You need a special player, like Childress, Duncan, Paul or Aminu to fall yo you to win at at Wake and those are few and far between.

I’m not sure UNC, UVA, Boston College, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, or VT (in addition to Duke who you mentioned) really have “low academic standards.” Roughly half of the conference.

Also, Chicos talking with Chicos.

Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on April 25, 2020, 10:50:36 PM
I’m not sure UNC, UVA, Boston College, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, or VT (in addition to Duke who you mentioned) really have “low academic standards.” Roughly half of the conference.

Also, Chicos talking with Chicos.
I believe NC State is pretty good also.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on April 25, 2020, 10:57:48 PM
I believe NC State is pretty good also.

Yeah I wasn’t certain on some of the other schools. Syracuse has a good journalism school but I don’t know about the rest of the school.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on April 26, 2020, 01:41:41 AM
I’m not sure UNC, UVA, Boston College, Notre Dame, Georgia Tech, or VT (in addition to Duke who you mentioned) really have “low academic standards.” Roughly half of the conference.

Also, Chicos talking with Chicos.

UNC? Um, ok. And for athletics, most of those are not large public schools (except for VPU, and Buzz wouldn’t have gone there if they had academic standards for athletes).
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on April 26, 2020, 07:20:53 AM
Wake Forest has been less than Wake Forest for more than a decade.

From 1940-1990, Wake Forest scattered 7 NCAA appearances across the decades. From 1991-2005, they went 12 times in 15 years. Then back to 3 in the last 15.

I'd argue that Wake Forest hasn't been less than Wake Forest for more than a decade, I'd argue they were more than Wake Forest for 15 years and have reverted to what they are.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 26, 2020, 07:41:18 AM
From 1940-1990, Wake Forest scattered 7 NCAA appearances across the decades. From 1991-2005, they went 12 times in 15 years. Then back to 3 in the last 15.

I'd argue that Wake Forest hasn't been less than Wake Forest for more than a decade, I'd argue they were more than Wake Forest for 15 years and have reverted to what they are.


Remember for a large portion of this time, only the ACC tournament champion was given an NCAA bid.  So if you go back to 1940, a number of teams aren't going to look all that good.

But from 1980 to 2010, they were NCAA tournament participants more often than not.  They were NCAA participants more than Marquette was over the same time frame.

They have all the infrastructure in place to be successful in the ACC.  Don't you think they can mimic what Tony Bennett has done at Virginia *IF* they hire the right guy?  Because I would argue that Wake's basketball history was better than UVa's prior to Bennett.

Wake:  1 Final Four, 6 Elite 8s, 9 S16s, five conference tournament championships, five regular season championships.
Virginia: 2 Final Fours, 5 Elite 8s, 7 S16s, one conference tournament championship, six regular season championships
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JWags85 on April 26, 2020, 08:21:03 AM
https://twitter.com/coachingchanges/status/1254099334951571456?s=21

Names for Wake Forest targets & more to come/cross-off as we hear them.
Wes Miller
Steve Forbes
Pat Kelsey
Ryan Odom
Shaka Smart
Steve Wojciechowski
Mark Prosser
LaVall Jordan
Eric Konkol

Dark Horse
Kelvin Sampson
John Beilein


I think if you’re Wake your first two calls, if not Beilein, are Wes Miller and Forbes if that list is to be believed.

Some puzzling names on there.

Konkol? Took over a back to back conference champ program and has done nothing with it. Hasn’t sniffed the postseason of any sort.

Mark Prosser? I know the Skip continuation story is nice, but he’s literally done nothing to merit consideration. He’s been at the low major level his whole career and barely scratched the surface at WCU.

Pat Kelsey had 2 mid major jobs fall through but now after no significant improvement he’s ready to jump to a top 2 basketball conference?

Ryan Odom would be a shoe in if it was last year. But he’s been eh since that glorious 2018 tourney.

Moton from NC Central should be a dark horse, but I imagine he won’t be. He’s got all the bonafides you need and in state
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 26, 2020, 08:30:56 AM
Going from the MEAC to the ACC is probably too large of a jump.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Hards_Alumni on April 26, 2020, 09:12:06 AM
Are we really not worried about Wojo jumping ship closer to his roots?  I wouldn't count it out.

Why wouldn't he?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorPride68 on April 26, 2020, 09:17:55 AM
Are we really not worried about Wojo jumping ship closer to his roots?  I wouldn't count it out.

Why wouldn't he?

 We don’t want to get our hopes up just yet
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 79Warrior on April 26, 2020, 09:44:51 AM
UNC? Um, ok. And for athletics, most of those are not large public schools (except for VPU, and Buzz wouldn’t have gone there if they had academic standards for athletes).

You are wrong. UNC is a well regarded , highly rated academic university.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on April 26, 2020, 09:45:19 AM
There have been rumblings, and it's starting to get more legs that Wake fired Manning for cause..may be why it took so long. I think Wake is just trying to get out of the buyout. This could get really interesting.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: asdfasdf on April 26, 2020, 09:47:00 AM
Kevin Ollie 2.0.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 26, 2020, 09:51:38 AM
There have been rumblings, and it's starting to get more legs that Wake fired Manning for cause..may be why it took so long. I think Wake is just trying to get out of the buyout. This could get really interesting.


It could.  But unless they really have something on him, they will likely have to pay even more.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 26, 2020, 09:52:28 AM
You are wrong. UNC is a well regarded , highly rated academic university.

This is true, which is why it was especially odious that for years they funneled athletes into fake classes to keep them eligible.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 26, 2020, 10:13:07 AM
Surprised Wake wouldn’t be interested in Brian Wardle
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on April 26, 2020, 10:28:48 AM
Are we really not worried about Wojo jumping ship closer to his roots?  I wouldn't count it out.

Why wouldn't he?

Considering the number of candidates with strong ties to the program that would have significantly lower buyouts than Wojo, I doubt we'll hear him connected to Wake.


Remember for a large portion of this time, only the ACC tournament champion was given an NCAA bid.  So if you go back to 1940, a number of teams aren't going to look all that good.

But from 1980 to 2010, they were NCAA tournament participants more often than not.  They were NCAA participants more than Marquette was over the same time frame.

They have all the infrastructure in place to be successful in the ACC.  Don't you think they can mimic what Tony Bennett has done at Virginia *IF* they hire the right guy?  Because I would argue that Wake's basketball history was better than UVa's prior to Bennett.

Wake:  1 Final Four, 6 Elite 8s, 9 S16s, five conference tournament championships, five regular season championships.
Virginia: 2 Final Fours, 5 Elite 8s, 7 S16s, one conference tournament championship, six regular season championships

Fair points, but I think people in the 35-50 age range might overvalue Wake's history because they were good during our formative years of watching basketball. Tim Duncan, Chris Paul, Dave Odom, & Skip Prosser are fondly remembered. But the Odom/Prosser tenure accounted for more than half their NCAA appearances. It's essentially their Al McGuire/Hank Raymonds stretch without anything significant afterwards.

I don't think Wake has the resources and support a large state school like UVA does. I guess we'll see, but they're a small school in a big league and at best the fourth most prominent program in their state. It's not impossible, but I think circumstances (especially with the addition of Louisville, Syracuse, ND, etc since they were last good) have made Wake one of the toughest high major jobs in the sport.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on April 26, 2020, 10:31:50 AM
UNC? Um, ok. And for athletics, most of those are not large public schools (except for VPU, and Buzz wouldn’t have gone there if they had academic standards for athletes).

Uhm, yes, UNC. They are a very strong academic institution.

But I agree. You claimed that outside of Duke the ACC is filled with large public institutions that have low academic standards. Thank you for backtracking on that. It’s simply false. A few large public institutions with low academic standards? Sure. Certainly not what you originally claimed.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 26, 2020, 10:32:18 AM
Brew you can say that about any team that had a golden era.  Basketball is all about runs/periods of time of success.  Outside of the blue bloods it’s periods of bliss and periods of being mediocre. 

The reality is any school in a P6 conference has the capability to be elite for a run with the right coach and the willingness to spend money. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: keefe on April 26, 2020, 10:55:49 AM
large public schools with low academic standards

Yea...UVA, Georgia Tech, Miami, Syracuse, Notre Dame, BC, Pitt are such diploma mills...

Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 26, 2020, 10:59:13 AM
Considering the number of candidates with strong ties to the program that would have significantly lower buyouts than Wojo, I doubt we'll hear him connected to Wake.

Fair points, but I think people in the 35-50 age range might overvalue Wake's history because they were good during our formative years of watching basketball. Tim Duncan, Chris Paul, Dave Odom, & Skip Prosser are fondly remembered. But the Odom/Prosser tenure accounted for more than half their NCAA appearances. It's essentially their Al McGuire/Hank Raymonds stretch without anything significant afterwards.

I don't think Wake has the resources and support a large state school like UVA does. I guess we'll see, but they're a small school in a big league and at best the fourth most prominent program in their state. It's not impossible, but I think circumstances (especially with the addition of Louisville, Syracuse, ND, etc since they were last good) have made Wake one of the toughest high major jobs in the sport.


Under Carl Tracy they went to Elite 8s twice in eight years.  '77 against Marquette and '84 against Houston. 

I agree with you that it will be harder to compete in today's ACC, but they aren't a bad program.  They can do much better than they did under Manning.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 26, 2020, 11:07:32 AM
Woj just re-mulched his crib. Ain't goin' nowhere, unless he's fittin' ta sell?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 26, 2020, 11:10:34 AM
Woj just re-mulched his crib. Ain't goin' nowhere, unless he's fittin' ta sell?


"Yeah, I would be intested in your coaching job, but I just remulched my place.  <sigh>  Would you reimburse me for that as part of my contract?"
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 26, 2020, 11:58:04 AM
Considering the number of candidates with strong ties to the program that would have significantly lower buyouts than Wojo, I doubt we'll hear him connected to Wake.

Yep, I agree. That's certainly got to be a heart-breaker for a large faction of Scoopdom.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on April 26, 2020, 01:39:01 PM
You are wrong. UNC is a well regarded , highly rated academic university.

As an institution, yes. For athlete admission and academics once on campus, no.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on April 26, 2020, 01:49:59 PM
Yea...UVA, Georgia Tech, Miami, Syracuse, Notre Dame, BC, Pitt are such diploma mills...

How many of those have limited athlete admission slots like Wake for those below a certain threshold? BC and....

I’m sure all of Miami’s football players are rocking 30’s on their ACT’s and Syracuse is telling their other coaches “don’t even bother” for hoops recruits. It’s like Northwestern in the Big Ten and Stanford in the PAC 12; they have much leniency with admission than the rest of their conference peers. For athletics the ACC is loaded, for the most part, with large public schools with low academic standards. But keep arguing for the sake of arguing.  Next up you’ll resort to defending Wisconsin’s academic rigor for athletics.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on April 26, 2020, 02:28:18 PM
As an institution, yes. For athlete admission and academics once on campus, no.

So...just like any other high major division 1 college athletics department not named Stanford and maybe one or two others?

Well dang Cheeks.  You're right then.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on April 26, 2020, 02:29:34 PM
How many of those have limited athlete admission slots like Wake for those below a certain threshold? BC and....

I’m sure all of Miami’s football players are rocking 30’s on their ACT’s and Syracuse is telling their other coaches “don’t even bother” for hoops recruits. It’s like Northwestern in the Big Ten and Stanford in the PAC 12; they have much leniency with admission than the rest of their conference peers. For athletics the ACC is loaded, for the most part, with large public schools with low academic standards. But keep arguing for the sake of arguing.  Next up you’ll resort to defending Wisconsin’s academic rigor for athletics.

You're simply wrong.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 4everDawson on April 26, 2020, 02:36:37 PM
You are wrong. UNC is a well regarded , highly rated academic university.

Just not so much in African-American Studies.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Herman Cain on April 26, 2020, 09:04:19 PM
As an institution, yes. For athlete admission and academics once on campus, no.
UNC just like Stanford Northwestern Michigan Virginia etc. High Quality institution for everyone who is not an athlete. Athlete Admission and ongoing standards are much lower.

Michigan in fact was one of the first to make their athletic department a separate legal entity, that issued its own debt etc. 

The UNC alum base are still PO about the whole athletic academic scandal. So are the UNC non athletic  students as the University has pursued a misguided policy of grade deflation to remedy the faux paus of the athletic department. Yet UNC Athletics happily goes on with a $500 million capital campaign ....
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Class71 on April 26, 2020, 11:19:27 PM
Keep spamming this. Also your signature picture is too small I cant see it. Belien will be 68 next year. With the coaching change I'd assume we would be utter trash next year and probably not good in year 2. So john would be 70 in the first year most would start to expect success? What is the long term picture you see?? Is the guy gonna coach till hes 80? How much did he make with the cavs.? Hes not coming to a smallish private school to rebuild marquette basketball. Pull your head out of your ass. What do you see that makes this sound at all realistic

It appears your personal attacks will convince everyone that you are once again correct.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorDad on April 26, 2020, 11:29:30 PM
So...just like any other high major division 1 college athletics department not named Stanford and maybe one or two others?

Well dang Cheeks.  You're right then.

Now he is Cheeks again?  Does this moniker transfer from day to day?

Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Retire0 on April 27, 2020, 06:30:50 AM
Now he is Cheeks again?  Does this moniker transfer from day to day?



What’s a Chico’s?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on April 27, 2020, 11:56:42 AM
Two names the WF insider said are definitely in the mix at WF, that no one has talked about are: Tommy Amaker and he said the leading candidate right now, might very well be Thad Matta.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 27, 2020, 12:29:05 PM
Two names the WF insider said are definitely in the mix at WF, that no one has talked about are: Tommy Amaker and he said the leading candidate right now, might very well be Thad Matta.

My first thought was Amaker has a good thing going at Harvard but given the Ivy League restrictions on certain eligibility issues, I can see why he’d have a wandering eye. 

Matta surprises me because it is a difficult job to succeed at and he’ll have to be 100% physically
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 27, 2020, 12:31:37 PM
Wake also has a medical school, which is great considering Amacher's wife's career as well.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Litehouse on April 27, 2020, 02:08:38 PM
My first thought was Amaker has a good thing going at Harvard but given the Ivy League restrictions on certain eligibility issues, I can see why he’d have a wandering eye. 



How much is Amaker making at Harvard?  It seems like a nice gig for him, but if he's making $1M or less at Harvard and Wake throws an offer of $3M at him, it would be hard to turn down.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 4everDawson on April 27, 2020, 02:29:34 PM
Two names the WF insider said are definitely in the mix at WF, that no one has talked about are: Tommy Amaker and he said the leading candidate right now, might very well be Thad Matta.

Thad no matta
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Goatherder on April 27, 2020, 02:59:16 PM

How much is Amaker making at Harvard?  It seems like a nice gig for him, but if he's making $1M or less at Harvard and Wake throws an offer of $3M at him, it would be hard to turn down.

Maybe, but his wife is on the faculty at Harvard.  Boston College put on a big press to get him a few years ago, and he turned them down.  It would seem to have been the perfect place for him to go if he wanted to move to a major conference.  Into the ACC and he would not even need to move.  Of course, BC is locked in the cellar of the ACC, so maybe he did not want to take a difficult job like that.  Right now, Wake seems no better and it is not in Boston.  Harvard does have its advantages. If he and his wife are both earning respectable salaries there, a big increase in pay may not seem as attractive.  Moreover, he can likely stay at Harvard until he dies.  Recruiting obviously is different.  That can be good or bad depending on your viewpoint.  Clearly there are kids he cannot recruit to Harvard.  OTOH, there are kids he does not need to recruit to Harvard. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 27, 2020, 03:20:02 PM
Maybe, but his wife is on the faculty at Harvard.  Boston College put on a big press to get him a few years ago, and he turned them down.  It would seem to have been the perfect place for him to go if he wanted to move to a major conference.  Into the ACC and he would not even need to move.  Of course, BC is locked in the cellar of the ACC, so maybe he did not want to take a difficult job like that.  Right now, Wake seems no better and it is not in Boston.  Harvard does have its advantages. If he and his wife are both earning respectable salaries there, a big increase in pay may not seem as attractive.  Moreover, he can likely stay at Harvard until he dies.  Recruiting obviously is different.  That can be good or bad depending on your viewpoint.  Clearly there are kids he cannot recruit to Harvard.  OTOH, there are kids he does not need to recruit to Harvard.

Yep. Some people are just happy where they are. Bob McKillop, the very successful coach at Davidson, is another good example. You have more than enough $$, less pressure (still some, of course, but it's mostly what you put on yourself), a shot at conference titles, a chance to have a positive impact on athletes who want to be students and who usually stick around for 4 years,  likely longevity at a place where you're comfortable, etc. It sounds pretty effen good, if you ask me.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Litehouse on April 27, 2020, 04:05:44 PM
Getting paid $15M to go away sounds pretty effen good too.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 27, 2020, 04:43:26 PM
Getting paid $15M to go away sounds pretty effen good too.

The $$$ sounds good ... but if you're true to yourself you know you left as a complete failure.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: keefe on April 27, 2020, 05:12:24 PM
How many of those have limited athlete admission slots like Wake for those below a certain threshold? BC and....

I’m sure all of Miami’s football players are rocking 30’s on their ACT’s and Syracuse is telling their other coaches “don’t even bother” for hoops recruits. It’s like Northwestern in the Big Ten and Stanford in the PAC 12; they have much leniency with admission than the rest of their conference peers. For athletics the ACC is loaded, for the most part, with large public schools with low academic standards. But keep arguing for the sake of arguing. Next up you’ll resort to defending Wisconsin’s academic rigor for athletics.


F#cking hilarious



Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorDad on April 27, 2020, 08:31:08 PM
From 1940-1990, Wake Forest scattered 7 NCAA appearances across the decades. From 1991-2005, they went 12 times in 15 years. Then back to 3 in the last 15.

I'd argue that Wake Forest hasn't been less than Wake Forest for more than a decade, I'd argue they were more than Wake Forest for 15 years and have reverted to what they are.

In the last ten years Wake Forest has eight losing seasons.   The previous twenty years they had zero.  It is one thing to not make a tournament, quite another to not even compile winning records.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on April 29, 2020, 09:33:26 PM
Wake Forest will either hire East Tenn St's Steve Forbes or UNCG's Wes Miller as their next Head Coach. Something should leak tomorrow. Thad Matta was also a candidate.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on April 29, 2020, 10:00:34 PM
Wake Forest will either hire East Tenn St's Steve Forbes or UNCG's Wes Miller as their next Head Coach. Something should leak tomorrow. Thad Matta was also a candidate.

Source?

If so, I think that's a mistake for either of them. Forbes and Miller could both get solid high-major jobs in a normal year. Wake Forest isn't what it once was and it's a lot harder to break through in the ACC than it was when Wake was last relevant.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on April 29, 2020, 10:07:02 PM
Source?

If so, I think that's a mistake for either of them. Forbes and Miller could both get solid high-major jobs in a normal year. Wake Forest isn't what it once was and it's a lot harder to break through in the ACC than it was when Wake was last relevant.

Evan Daniels and Les Johns the WF insider are both reporting the same thing

Looks like Steve Forbes will be the next Head coach at WF
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: shoothoops on April 30, 2020, 07:07:19 AM
Not a done deal, but Goodman also reporting Wake Forest deal with Steve Forbes is close. He mentioned the previous relationship between Forbes and Wake Forest AD John Currie.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on April 30, 2020, 07:20:55 AM
That move probably makes more sense for Forbes than the other candidates. He's 55, so I imagine he wants to capitalize on a bigger job before retirement. If it doesn't go well, he can coach to 60 and think about hanging it up, if it does go well, he can put in 10-15 years.

For Miller, who may have his eye on UNC when Roy goes, I can't imagine going to Wake and losing for 3-4 seasons is the best audition tape to slide up Tobacco Road.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 30, 2020, 07:42:12 AM
Wes Miller has been fine at Greensboro, but hardly spectacular.  1 NCAA bid in 8 years with this year TBD.  My guess is that he only got mention at Wake because of his family's connections.  No way he is the next guy at UNC unless a ton of others turn them down or he starts putting up some monster seasons.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on April 30, 2020, 07:48:14 AM
That move probably makes more sense for Forbes than the other candidates. He's 55, so I imagine he wants to capitalize on a bigger job before retirement. If it doesn't go well, he can coach to 60 and think about hanging it up, if it does go well, he can put in 10-15 years.

For Miller, who may have his eye on UNC when Roy goes, I can't imagine going to Wake and losing for 3-4 seasons is the best audition tape to slide up Tobacco Road.

I'm just glad they didn't hire Matta..he was a candidate. Not sure any details beyond that, but he does get his last check from OSU next month. So I wonder if he's ready to get back into Coaching now, or if he's done for good?? I saw someone say that next years coaching carousel is expected to be crazy. How someone would know that already?? Who knows.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 30, 2020, 08:09:39 AM
I'm just glad they didn't hire Matta..he was a candidate. Not sure any details beyond that, but he does get his last check from OSU next month. So I wonder if he's ready to get back into Coaching now, or if he's done for good?? I saw someone say that next years coaching carousel is expected to be crazy. How someone would know that already?? Who knows.

If Wojo left/got canned, would I like our Warriors to consider Matta? I guess so. He's a proven commodity who had a heck of 10-year run at Ohio State and also won big at both Butler and Xavier.

Still, he did miss the tourney his last two seasons despite having recruited some highly rated players, he finished 10th in the B14 his final season, he had health issues, and there was talk of burnout.

Maybe he's healthy and his next job re-energizes him. Plus, he's in his mid-50s, so maybe he'll see his next job as a landing spot instead of a springboard.

Obviously, worth a long look if we ever get to that place.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: JWags85 on April 30, 2020, 08:15:58 AM
Wes Miller has been fine at Greensboro, but hardly spectacular.  1 NCAA bid in 8 years with this year TBD.  My guess is that he only got mention at Wake because of his family's connections.  No way he is the next guy at UNC unless a ton of others turn them down or he starts putting up some monster seasons.

What family connections would get him mention at Wake?

And UNCG is really a tough place to win. Of the 3 SoCon conference titles and 2 tourney appearances in the schools history, he has 2 and 1, respectively. The only other was under Fran McCaffrey.

I agree that he’s not merited UNC looks at this point, but he’s definitely worthy of looks from a place like Wake. Most of those 8 seasons at UNCG were as one of the youngest coaches in D1 too
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: tower912 on April 30, 2020, 08:17:16 AM
Guru, next year will theoretically be crazier because a lot of frustrated AD's looked at the world this spring and decided the last thing they needed was a coaching search.   So they hunkered down with what they have rather than conduct a search over the phone.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 30, 2020, 08:17:32 AM
What family connections would get him mention at Wake?

And UNCG is really a tough place to win. Of the 3 SoCon conference titles and 2 tourney appearances in the schools history, he has 2 and 1, respectively. The only other was under Fran McCaffrey.

I agree that he’s not merited UNC looks at this point, but he’s definitely worthy of looks from a place like Wake. Most of those 8 seasons at UNCG were as one of the youngest coaches in D1 too


His dad used to be on Wake's Board of Trustees and he was the primary donor to the basketball practice facility.

https://godeacs.com/sports/2018/7/27/facilities-wake-miller-html.aspx
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on April 30, 2020, 08:24:52 AM
Guru, next year will theoretically be crazier because a lot of frustrated AD's looked at the world this spring and decided the last thing they needed was a coaching search.   So they hunkered down with what they have rather than conduct a search over the phone.

Good point, I guess there were probably quite a few coaches on the hot seat that only survived because of covid-19
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 30, 2020, 08:26:30 AM
Guru, next year will theoretically be crazier because a lot of frustrated AD's looked at the world this spring and decided the last thing they needed was a coaching search.   So they hunkered down with what they have rather than conduct a search over the phone.

Agree with this 100%.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 30, 2020, 08:28:20 AM
Conversely, athletic departments may be so strapped for cash that they won't be able to afford the buy-outs.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 30, 2020, 08:30:29 AM
Conversely, athletic departments may be so strapped for cash that they won't be able to afford the buy-outs.

Maybe ... but, as was the case with Wake this year, most seem to be able to find the money when they really want to dump their coach.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: asdfasdf on April 30, 2020, 08:47:49 AM
Maybe ... but, as was the case with Wake this year, most seem to be able to find the money when they really want to dump their coach.

I think you're right that ADs could find the money if they wanted to, but will need to work to justify the expense. Particularly in situations where the coach isn't failing as hard as Manning did.

For instance, from a financial standpoint, I don't think Marquette could justify firing Wojo anytime soon based on his performance.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: bilsu on April 30, 2020, 09:14:36 AM
Conversely, athletic departments may be so strapped for cash that they won't be able to afford the buy-outs.
They also will not be paying big salary's for new coaches.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 30, 2020, 09:22:30 AM
I think you're right that ADs could find the money if they wanted to, but will need to work to justify the expense. Particularly in situations where the coach isn't failing as hard as Manning did.

For instance, from a financial standpoint, I don't think Marquette could justify firing Wojo anytime soon based on his performance.

That could be true. Hopefully, we don't have to find out!
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: keefe on April 30, 2020, 09:33:09 AM
Good point, I guess there were probably quite a few coaches on the hot seat that only survived because of covid-19

Doc tells us that there is a DI coach living next door to him in the Quon whose sphincter was wired tighter than a Cobeen coed's chastity belt on a September Saturday night. Seems he looked at the schedule and saw the Hall then a probable 8/9 matchup looming large in his future.

As soon as the season was cancelled he let loose with a soul searing massive and was seen the next day spreading manure around the ranch. Best damn tulips on the street, hey Doc? 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on April 30, 2020, 10:12:01 AM
It's interesting reading the Wake boards and how giddy they are over this hire...calling it a "home run hire". Understandably after the Manning tenure, it sure would feel like a 'home run hire". For Wake Forest, it is a "home run hire". I'm curious to know how MU fans would feel if MU were to make this hire?? For me, this would NOT be a home run hire..at least not under normal circumstances. It would be like a bunt single to me.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 30, 2020, 10:18:58 AM
I wouldn't be all that excited about someone from the Bruce Pearl / Gregg Marshall coaching tree whose success is based primarily on Juco transfers.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: tower912 on April 30, 2020, 10:26:02 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Forbes_(basketball)


His bio reads like a longer version of Buzz's.    His success at ETSU was due to tapping into his JUCO connections.   He can coach.   He has never had the seat at a high major.    I am sure, like everything else on scoop, that there would be deep fissures in the reactions to a hire like this one for Marquette. 

And this is the best that Wake thought they could get.    It makes me believe even more fervently that if Wojo leaves that Wardle will be the next head coach at MU. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on April 30, 2020, 10:26:32 AM
It's interesting reading the Wake boards and how giddy they are over this hire...calling it a "home run hire". Understandably after the Manning tenure, it sure would feel like a 'home run hire". For Wake Forest, it is a "home run hire". I'm curious to know how MU fans would feel if MU were to make this hire?? For me, this would NOT be a home run hire..at least not under normal circumstances. It would be like a bunt single to me.

I would love it. His floor was 24 total wins & worst conference record was 13-5 over 5 years. Major improvement over the previous 5 years of the program. And I think we should be taking JUCOs, don't care that's how he won. The guy can clearly coach. If he didn't produce in 5 years at MU, give him the heave and try again.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 30, 2020, 10:33:07 AM
It's interesting reading the Wake boards and how giddy they are over this hire...calling it a "home run hire". Understandably after the Manning tenure, it sure would feel like a 'home run hire". For Wake Forest, it is a "home run hire". I'm curious to know how MU fans would feel if MU were to make this hire?? For me, this would NOT be a home run hire..at least not under normal circumstances. It would be like a bunt single to me.

His resume is at least as good as Chris Beard's was, actually quite a bit better.

Almost every hire is a "gamble." I mean, even when Kentucky hired Calipari, it was a gamble that he wouldn't get caught cheating, a gamble that he wouldn't want to try the NBA again in 2 years, etc.

Forbes might suck at Wake. Or he might revive the program.

But yes, plenty of Scoopers would have hated this hire. Just as many hated us hiring Buzz. Just as most would have gone ballistic had we hired Beard.

Fun in Fanboard Land!
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 30, 2020, 10:33:37 AM
I don't mind some Jucos, but Forbes is like Buzz on steroids.  I don't think that's a high major winning formula.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on April 30, 2020, 10:35:12 AM
I will say this, at least he has had head coaching experience..so that would be a plus over an unproven assistant. However, this still wouldn't excite me that much. Now let me qualify that, as a "fallback" option after your top choices have said no..I'd be okay with it, but with Wake, he was their top choice...at MU, I certainly would not want Steve Forbes being the top candidate.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on April 30, 2020, 10:39:55 AM
It's interesting reading the Wake boards and how giddy they are over this hire...calling it a "home run hire". Understandably after the Manning tenure, it sure would feel like a 'home run hire". For Wake Forest, it is a "home run hire". I'm curious to know how MU fans would feel if MU were to make this hire?? For me, this would NOT be a home run hire..at least not under normal circumstances. It would be like a bunt single to me.

Like many topics, there would be a noticeable split haha. 

Personally, I do think it is a good hire - for the reasons that Forbes is a proven head coach that has won at multiple schools as a head coach (Manning had two so-so years at Tulsa before being hired at Wake).  He's been an assistant at top basketball programs like TA&M, Tennessee and Wichita State in the past fifteen years.  He has experience at the JUCO, low-major, mid-major and high-major programs.  Ironically, Forbes and Buzz were together for two seasons at A&M (04-06). 

Now, the people that are likely upset at the hire the same ones who feel frustrated and confused why coaches like Beilein, Matta and other available successful retreads are not considered for open vacancies. 

Wake went with a "name" with Manning.  He was only an assistant for six seasons followed by two underwhelming years at Tulsa.  Wake is definitely in the top-half of the ACC of jobs, IMO.  Wake could have done better that go-around.  Glad to see Forbes finally get a high-major opportunity.  I think he will be very successful there. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: TedBaxter on April 30, 2020, 11:09:18 AM
Whether he was guilty, he was given a Show-Cause penalty by the NCAA for being on Bruce Pearl's staff at Tennessee, so no, I would not be excited if he was hired by Marquette.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: TAMU Eagle on April 30, 2020, 11:12:42 AM
I would love it. His floor was 24 total wins & worst conference record was 13-5 over 5 years. Major improvement over the previous 5 years of the program. And I think we should be taking JUCOs, don't care that's how he won. The guy can clearly coach. If he didn't produce in 5 years at MU, give him the heave and try again.

The problem with hiring a coach who relies on JUCOs isn't a "high horsed, we're too good for JUCOs" problem. It's a "there are now very few JUCOs every year who are capable of being high major starters" problem. Getting the best JUCOs every year is a winning formula in the Southern Conference. I don't think it is a winning formula in the ACC. Forbes may end up being a very good hire for Wake Forest. If he is, I expect it will be because he translated his JUCO recruiting chops into high school and transfer recruiting chops, while occasionally grabbing one of the few high major ready JUCOs.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 30, 2020, 11:18:51 AM
The problem with hiring a coach who relies on JUCOs isn't a "high horsed, we're too good for JUCOs" problem. It's a "there are now very few JUCOs every year who are capable of being high major starters" problem. Getting the best JUCOs every year is a winning formula in the Southern Conference. I don't think it is a winning formula in the ACC. Forbes may end up being a very good hire for Wake Forest. If he is, I expect it will be because he translated his JUCO recruiting chops into high school and transfer recruiting chops, while occasionally grabbing one of the few high major ready JUCOs.

Thank you.  Exactly.  There is a reason that the Juco model isn't followed much at the high major level, and even coaches like Buzz rely less on them than before.

You have said this before, but I think Buzz's recruitment of Jucos at MU was more due to connections plus good fortune that a number of high-impact Jucos were available.  It's far from being the norm.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 30, 2020, 12:10:29 PM
Wake is going to fight Danny Manning over what he is owed, so they many save some cash that way
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Galway Eagle on April 30, 2020, 12:46:28 PM
Thank you.  Exactly.  There is a reason that the Juco model isn't followed much at the high major level, and even coaches like Buzz rely less on them than before.

You have said this before, but I think Buzz's recruitment of Jucos at MU was more due to connections plus good fortune that a number of high-impact Jucos were available.  It's far from being the norm.

Yeah during that stretch I can only think of two jucos I wish we had gotten in that guy at Baylor and that guy at Some SEC school. And I guess Jameel McKay if you don't count him for us.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on April 30, 2020, 12:51:25 PM
The problem with hiring a coach who relies on JUCOs isn't a "high horsed, we're too good for JUCOs" problem. It's a "there are now very few JUCOs every year who are capable of being high major starters" problem. Getting the best JUCOs every year is a winning formula in the Southern Conference. I don't think it is a winning formula in the ACC. Forbes may end up being a very good hire for Wake Forest. If he is, I expect it will be because he translated his JUCO recruiting chops into high school and transfer recruiting chops, while occasionally grabbing one of the few high major ready JUCOs.

Superb post, TAMU.

Just getting JUCOs isn't what helped Buzz. Getting outstanding JUCOs did.

Buzz also landed numerous highly ranked high school kids, including some right at the end before he bolted. Some of his top-100 kids ended up not panning out in college, but he still got them.

Forbes no doubt felt JUCOs could help a lot at ETSU. In the ACC, he will have plenty of competition for high school recruits, but he also will have a lot more to sell them than he did at ETSU.

Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on April 30, 2020, 01:00:44 PM
Like many topics, there would be a noticeable split haha. 

Personally, I do think it is a good hire - for the reasons that Forbes is a proven head coach that has won at multiple schools as a head coach (Manning had two so-so years at Tulsa before being hired at Wake).  He's been an assistant at top basketball programs like TA&M, Tennessee and Wichita State in the past fifteen years.  He has experience at the JUCO, low-major, mid-major and high-major programs.  Ironically, Forbes and Buzz were together for two seasons at A&M (04-06). 

Now, the people that are likely upset at the hire the same ones who feel frustrated and confused why coaches like Beilein, Matta and other available successful retreads are not considered for open vacancies. 

Wake went with a "name" with Manning.  He was only an assistant for six seasons followed by two underwhelming years at Tulsa.  Wake is definitely in the top-half of the ACC of jobs, IMO.  Wake could have done better that go-around.  Glad to see Forbes finally get a high-major opportunity.  I think he will be very successful there.

no way.  Unless Wake promised to scrap their admissions standards for recruiting he's going to struggle. I went through the rosters back to 2012, no JUCO's, but plenty of kids from high-level private schools. That's Wake as a school in a nutshell. ACC coaches ranked it 11th in the conference with the second toughest admission requirements to Notre Dame and second-worst budget/recourses to BC. The polar opposite of ETSU.

It's the smallest Power 5 school, high admission standards, strict liberal arts curriculum with no place to really "hide" at-risk student-athletes, an off-campus, aging arena, overshadowed in its own state by Duke, UNC and NC State. The limited success they've had over the last 25 years is due to luck in getting some generational players - Duncan, a lightly recruited kid originally from the Virgin Islands, Randolph Childress, and Chris Paul, a hometown kid who chose Wake right primarily because grandfather died.

https://watchstadium.com/acc-coaches-vote-duke-best-job-in-conference-unc-third-best-10-04-2018/

Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on April 30, 2020, 01:48:21 PM
Wake is definitely in the top-half of the ACC of jobs, IMO.

Top half means at worst the 8th best job. I'll grant Boston College as a clearly tougher job. Beyond that, I don't think anyone is clearly behind Wake. What about the top end?

I would say that Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Louisville, and Syracuse are all categorically better jobs. Like not even close. I feel like Florida State, NC State, Georgia Tech, and Notre Dame are safely ahead of Wake. That leaves them in a dogfight for the 10th best job with Pittsburgh, Clemson, Miami, and Virginia Tech, all of which have larger alumni bases, more money and donors, and are significantly more prominent regionally than Wake Forest is.

Wake, to me, is one of the worst jobs in the ACC and at best in the bottom quarter of high-major jobs.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 30, 2020, 01:59:21 PM
Top half means at worst the 8th best job. I'll grant Boston College as a clearly tougher job. Beyond that, I don't think anyone is clearly behind Wake. What about the top end?

I would say that Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Louisville, and Syracuse are all categorically better jobs. Like not even close. I feel like Florida State, NC State, Georgia Tech, and Notre Dame are safely ahead of Wake. That leaves them in a dogfight for the 10th best job with Pittsburgh, Clemson, Miami, and Virginia Tech, all of which have larger alumni bases, more money and donors, and are significantly more prominent regionally than Wake Forest is.

Wake, to me, is one of the worst jobs in the ACC and at best in the bottom quarter of high-major jobs.


I can nitpick some of these, like Georgia Tech, but by and large as Wake has fallen off over the last decade, the ACC expanded and pushed them further down the pecking order.

Don't get me wrong, they have a good history and a good coach CAN win there, but right now it's not a great job. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: shoothoops on April 30, 2020, 02:03:05 PM
John Currie worked with Forbes at Tennessee. He knows what he is getting in Forbes.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on April 30, 2020, 02:04:50 PM

I can nitpick some of these, like Georgia Tech, but by and large as Wake has fallen off over the last decade, the ACC expanded and pushed them further down the pecking order.

Don't get me wrong, they have a good history and a good coach CAN win there, but right now it's not a great job.

Fair point, personally I view Georgia Tech as sort of an opposite Wake. They have a fertile recruiting ground and all the resources, but it hasn't been great because frankly, the hires they've made haven't been very good. I think a good coach would win there, but Pastner and Gregory just aren't that.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WarriorDad on April 30, 2020, 02:17:46 PM
It's interesting reading the Wake boards and how giddy they are over this hire...calling it a "home run hire". Understandably after the Manning tenure, it sure would feel like a 'home run hire". For Wake Forest, it is a "home run hire". I'm curious to know how MU fans would feel if MU were to make this hire?? For me, this would NOT be a home run hire..at least not under normal circumstances. It would be like a bunt single to me.

How many home run hires flame out?  Feels high.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on April 30, 2020, 02:32:13 PM
Superb post, TAMU.

Just getting JUCOs isn't what helped Buzz. Getting outstanding JUCOs did.

Buzz also landed numerous highly ranked high school kids, including some right at the end before he bolted. Some of his top-100 kids ended up not panning out in college, but he still got them.

Forbes no doubt felt JUCOs could help a lot at ETSU. In the ACC, he will have plenty of competition for high school recruits, but he also will have a lot more to sell them than he did at ETSU.

Agreed re: outstanding. I don't just want JUCO's for the sake of having them. But as long as they are eligible to play by NCAA guidelines and the coach feels like they are worthy of a roster spot, I do not want them restricted from MU.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on April 30, 2020, 02:34:59 PM
I'm curious to know how MU fans would feel if MU were to make this hire??

Marquette wouldn't have made this hire even if they were in the market, but I'd be very happy with a coach that had Forbes resume. He won significantly every year, but I always like to look at how someone does compared to their peers. In 5 years at ETSU, he never had an adjusted offensive or defensive efficiency rank lower than 4th. As a team, his Adjusted Efficiency was never worse than 3rd in the league. Every single year, he had one of the best teams in his league and they were performing on both ends of the court. And he did that in a time when many mid-majors are struggling to keep roster consistency. Finally, if he's successful, it's likely his last stop.

In addition, he was highly successful (62-6) in the JUCO ranks and has recruited at major programs like TAMU, Tennessee, and Wichita State. I don't think he's a Marquette fit because it feels an awful lot like dropping bags and securing the kind of commits the program has moved away from, but strictly from a basketball perspective, it's a really nice hire.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: asdfasdf on April 30, 2020, 03:00:10 PM
Marquette wouldn't have made this hire even if they were in the market, but I'd be very happy with a coach that had Forbes resume. He won significantly every year, but I always like to look at how someone does compared to their peers. In 5 years at ETSU, he never had an adjusted offensive or defensive efficiency rank lower than 4th. As a team, his Adjusted Efficiency was never worse than 3rd in the league. Every single year, he had one of the best teams in his league and they were performing on both ends of the court. And he did that in a time when many mid-majors are struggling to keep roster consistency. Finally, if he's successful, it's likely his last stop.

In addition, he was highly successful (62-6) in the JUCO ranks and has recruited at major programs like TAMU, Tennessee, and Wichita State. I don't think he's a Marquette fit because it feels an awful lot like dropping bags and securing the kind of commits the program has moved away from, but strictly from a basketball perspective, it's a really nice hire.

And when you compare him head to head with some of the other finalists for the job, it was clear Forbes was the best option.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on April 30, 2020, 03:38:00 PM
Personally, I would rank WF ahead of: Clemson, VT, BC, Miami, Georgia Tech and FSU.  Wake has a 15k home arena, incredibly strong recruiting area, strong history and is a basketball-first athletics program (basketball is better at Wake than football).  Wake has more NCAA tournament appearances than each of those programs.  Miami and FSU have been good in recent seasons, but before Larranaga and Hamilton came around, neither program ever amounted to much (and both schools are clearly football-first programs).  VT accomplished little-to-nothing before Buzz came along.  BC was average at best in the Big East, and has fallen to the bottom of the ACC.  Virginia and Wake have the exact same number of NCAA Tournament appearances, which would probably surprise quite a few on this board. 

Bzdelik and Manning were both very poor fits at Wake, which is why Wake was very poor this decade.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Herman Cain on April 30, 2020, 04:02:24 PM
I think Steve Forbes is an excellent hire for Wake Forest. Forbes has a track record of winning and competing at the highest level in the conferences he coached at.  Southern Conference has 3-4 good teams every year so its not a sure thing to be a winner there.

Wake has a lot going for it. Desirable school and nice campus , member of the ACC and the money to support the program.  I believe Forbes will make the transition from opportunistic recruiting which is the norm at a place like ETSU, to a more conventional approach .

While Wake has fallen relatively speaking over the course of its last two coaches, I don't think the obstacles to moving more toward the mid level of the ACC are insurmountable. Their football team has made a bowl appearance four years in a row and is on an uptrend. That football momentum brings a lot of school spirit which will eventually accrue to the basketball team when it starts performing well.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Marq3332 on April 30, 2020, 05:01:34 PM
Wake is going to fight Danny Manning over what he is owed, so they many save some cash that way
...possibly I missed it, but has there been a list of transgressions of DM recently posted that would play in favor of Wake withholding $ they are otherwise contracted to pay?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 30, 2020, 05:04:44 PM
...possibly I missed it, but has there been a list of transgressions of DM recently posted that would play in favor of Wake withholding $ they are otherwise contracted to pay?

They didn't say.  What schools have been doing is threatening to fire coaches "for cause" as a negotiating tactic, and if necessary, finding some nitpicky violation as a reason.  Forcing the coach to file suit.  All to save $$$.

With a $15 million buy out, it probably makes sense financially for Wake to do this.  Ethically is another matter.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on April 30, 2020, 05:06:15 PM
I think Steve Forbes is an excellent hire for Wake Forest. Forbes has a track record of winning and competing at the highest level in the conferences he coached at.  Southern Conference has 3-4 good teams every year so its not a sure thing to be a winner there.

Wake has a lot going for it. Desirable school and nice campus , member of the ACC and the money to support the program.  I believe Forbes will make the transition from opportunistic recruiting which is the norm at a place like ETSU, to a more conventional approach .

While Wake has fallen relatively speaking over the course of its last two coaches, I don't think the obstacles to moving more toward the mid level of the ACC are insurmountable. Their football team has made a bowl appearance four years in a row and is on an uptrend. That football momentum brings a lot of school spirit which will eventually accrue to the basketball team when it starts performing well.

I don't mean this in a negative way, just observation. A lot of times your posts read like a Patrick Bateman music review from American Psycho. Intentional?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 30, 2020, 05:15:37 PM
...possibly I missed it, but has there been a list of transgressions of DM recently posted that would play in favor of Wake withholding $ they are otherwise contracted to pay?

I apologize for not quite tweeting but I believe it was Jeff Goodman who said Wake was looking to recoup some of that money over not hitting certain criteria.  Not sure what that means but that’s what he tweeted.  Fluffy is correct, it’s a money saving tactic that probably gets settled before going to court.

Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Uncle Rico on April 30, 2020, 05:18:12 PM
Wake is an interesting job.  Is it a good job or bad job?  I don’t know.  I do know it’ll take the right coach to succeed there.  I think Skip Prosser could have found a way to win consistently there.  It’s about the coach and Forbes is a pretty good coach.  Wake isn’t ETSU, though, and he’ll have to change the type of kids he recruits.  I think he’s highly motivated but he’s definitely chumming on shark-infested waters
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Newsdreams on April 30, 2020, 05:22:06 PM
I don't mean this in a negative way, just observation. A lot of times your posts read like a Patrick Bateman music review from American Psycho. Intentional?
Well, what do you expect from Herman Cain
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on May 01, 2020, 09:04:03 AM
Here's a column from the unfortunately-named Luke DeCock about the very subject we had been discussing: Steve Forbes' reliance on JUCOs, and what it means for Wake Forest:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article242397351.html

Excerpts:

There’s a leap of faith on Wake Forest’s part that Forbes can recruit elite high-school talent and build his program that way. Which is another way to say: Forbes is a coach you’d hire in a heartbeat somewhere other than the smallest private school among the Power 5 conferences, not that Forbes thinks it’s an issue.

“On first blush, people might say, ‘He recruits high school kids, transfers, JUCOs, internationals, maybe he does or doesn’t fit recruiting-wise,’” Forbes told the News & Observer in a telephone conversation Thursday. “I disagree. I can recruit anybody. I’ve proven it throughout my career.”

But if it’s a gamble on Wake Forest’s part, it’s a gamble that’s certainly worth taking, given the dire state of the program after a decade with Jeff Bzdelik and Danny Manning and without a single winning record in the ACC.

Off the court, he’s affable, quotable and personable — more heir to Dave Odom and Skip Prosser in that respect than Bzdelik or Manning. ... Based on his East Tennessee State persona, Forbes understands that intrinsically.

“That’s just who I am,” Forbes said. “Very approachable. I don’t have all the answers, but I like to make fun of myself. When I went to ETSU five years ago, they had five years previously of not very good basketball. Just OK. But they had tradition: eight NCAA appearances and a passionate fan base. They just needed somebody to excite them again, spark some hope, win some games and play a style of play people want to go see.”

That’s exactly what Wake Forest needs, so it’s just the roster-building that’s hanging out there, and it’s going to require an abrupt departure from past practice. Forbes coached eight all-SoCon players in his five seasons at ETSU. Two were high school recruits he inherited from the previous regime. Two were his own high school recruits. Three were junior-college transfers. One was a graduate transfer. He once described his recruiting strategy as “guys from the Land of Misfit Toys.”

Wake Forest doesn’t typically do things that way ... few junior-college players are going to meet Wake’s admissions standards. For this to work, Forbes is going to have to walk away from the quick-fix JUCOs that enabled him to keep East Tennessee State on top of the Southern Conference year after year while he tries to rebuild Wake Forest from the ground up.

It’s the one question mark about a hire that checks all of the other boxes.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: The Lens on May 01, 2020, 09:39:18 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how institutions will look down on Jucos but celebrate bringing in McDonald's All Americans who plan on never staying more than 1 to 2 years. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 01, 2020, 09:46:38 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how institutions will look down on Jucos but celebrate bringing in McDonald's All Americans who plan on never staying more than 1 to 2 years. 


They are different.  In the the case of Jucos, they were likley non-qualifiers and may have more issues with credit transfer and/or struggle in a four year environment.  One and dones are qualifying students, who will likely leave, but may end up staying.  Or they may graduate at a different time.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: TedBaxter on May 01, 2020, 10:19:59 AM

They are different.  In the the case of Jucos, they were likley non-qualifiers and may have more issues with credit transfer and/or struggle in a four year environment.  One and dones are qualifying students, who will likely leave, but may end up staying.  Or they may graduate at a different time.

Exactly.  Buzz recruited qualifiers like Fulce, Butler and DJO while Buycks was recruited early enough to take or retake classes that transferred.  Crowder had to work his butt off to get the credits to enroll. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 01, 2020, 10:22:21 AM
Exactly.  Buzz recruited qualifiers like Fulce, Butler and DJO while Buycks was recruited early enough to take or retake classes that transferred.  Crowder had to work his butt off to get the credits to enroll.

For the record TJ Taylor and Jameel McKay were also recruits if you're listing all the jucos. But my understanding is there is debate whether crowder really had enough credits
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 01, 2020, 10:25:27 AM
For the record TJ Taylor and Jameel McKay were also recruits if you're listing all the jucos. But my understanding is there is debate whether crowder really had enough credits


Taylor was originally a qualifier who started his career at Oklahoma.  McKay commited early like Buycks did.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 01, 2020, 10:30:18 AM

Taylor was originally a qualifier who started his career at Oklahoma.  McKay commited early like Buycks did.

Thanks didn't remember the situation of either just that they were on campus
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: The Lens on May 01, 2020, 11:44:52 AM
I understand everything that goes into it, the path to graduation etc.  IMO there's a way to figure it out, especially if you're OK having a Burger Boy only on campus until late March his freshman year.  The Jucos of the world seem much more willing and able to graduate (with help) than your Jabari's, Kyrie's & Henry E's of the world. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on May 01, 2020, 12:28:39 PM
I understand everything that goes into it, the path to graduation etc.  IMO there's a way to figure it out, especially if you're OK having a Burger Boy only on campus until late March his freshman year.  The Jucos of the world seem much more willing and able to graduate (with help) than your Jabari's, Kyrie's & Henry E's of the world.

The thing is, for better or worse, it's not about graduating, it's just about the "path to graduation" you mention. It's easier to have a fully qualified one-and-done at the right point of the path for their class because they only need two semesters. For a JUCO, you're usually talking about someone who may be behind from the jump because of different requirements or how credits transfer.

I've mentioned it before, but I came to Marquette with a 2-year degree from the UW system (Waukesha). I was told all my credits would transfer. Almost all did, but some that I expected to go towards my major came in as electives and many of my classes were knocked down a level and seen as intro even though they weren't. That's from a system Marquette regularly works with and contributed to me getting the last 2 years of my bachelor's in 3 years (as did me not wanting 18-credit semesters, but it would've been easier had I gone to another UW school).

I can only imagine it's harder to get students on that track when it's a less familiar, out of state program and often with less reliable educational systems.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on May 01, 2020, 12:30:24 PM
Here's a column from the unfortunately-named Luke DeCock about the very subject we had been discussing: Steve Forbes' reliance on JUCOs, and what it means for Wake Forest:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article242397351.html

Excerpts:

There’s a leap of faith on Wake Forest’s part that Forbes can recruit elite high-school talent and build his program that way. Which is another way to say: Forbes is a coach you’d hire in a heartbeat somewhere other than the smallest private school among the Power 5 conferences, not that Forbes thinks it’s an issue.

“On first blush, people might say, ‘He recruits high school kids, transfers, JUCOs, internationals, maybe he does or doesn’t fit recruiting-wise,’” Forbes told the News & Observer in a telephone conversation Thursday. “I disagree. I can recruit anybody. I’ve proven it throughout my career.”

But if it’s a gamble on Wake Forest’s part, it’s a gamble that’s certainly worth taking, given the dire state of the program after a decade with Jeff Bzdelik and Danny Manning and without a single winning record in the ACC.

Off the court, he’s affable, quotable and personable — more heir to Dave Odom and Skip Prosser in that respect than Bzdelik or Manning. ... Based on his East Tennessee State persona, Forbes understands that intrinsically.

“That’s just who I am,” Forbes said. “Very approachable. I don’t have all the answers, but I like to make fun of myself. When I went to ETSU five years ago, they had five years previously of not very good basketball. Just OK. But they had tradition: eight NCAA appearances and a passionate fan base. They just needed somebody to excite them again, spark some hope, win some games and play a style of play people want to go see.”

That’s exactly what Wake Forest needs, so it’s just the roster-building that’s hanging out there, and it’s going to require an abrupt departure from past practice. Forbes coached eight all-SoCon players in his five seasons at ETSU. Two were high school recruits he inherited from the previous regime. Two were his own high school recruits. Three were junior-college transfers. One was a graduate transfer. He once described his recruiting strategy as “guys from the Land of Misfit Toys.”

Wake Forest doesn’t typically do things that way ... few junior-college players are going to meet Wake’s admissions standards. For this to work, Forbes is going to have to walk away from the quick-fix JUCOs that enabled him to keep East Tennessee State on top of the Southern Conference year after year while he tries to rebuild Wake Forest from the ground up.

It’s the one question mark about a hire that checks all of the other boxes.


but wades and Keefe said that's not true.  Hmmm....
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on May 01, 2020, 12:42:13 PM
The thing is, for better or worse, it's not about graduating, it's just about the "path to graduation" you mention. It's easier to have a fully qualified one-and-done at the right point of the path for their class because they only need two semesters. For a JUCO, you're usually talking about someone who may be behind from the jump because of different requirements or how credits transfer.

I've mentioned it before, but I came to Marquette with a 2-year degree from the UW system (Waukesha). I was told all my credits would transfer. Almost all did, but some that I expected to go towards my major came in as electives and many of my classes were knocked down a level and seen as intro even though they weren't. That's from a system Marquette regularly works with and contributed to me getting the last 2 years of my bachelor's in 3 years (as did me not wanting 18-credit semesters, but it would've been easier had I gone to another UW school).

I can only imagine it's harder to get students on that track when it's a less familiar, out of state program and often with less reliable educational systems.

The problem with JUCO's and transferring to a four year like Marquette and other private/religious schools is that those schools have requirements that are not offered at a JUCO (Theology, Philosophy, other specific courses that are part of a core curriculum). So when a student transfers most of their credits will transfer but they still have outstanding requirements for graduation (as you did) on top of the remaining credits. So, while a student entering as a freshman may need 128 credits to graduate to MU (that was the requirement when I was there) it may actually take 140 for a JUCO or other transfer to graduate due to not every transferrable class going towards graduation requirements.  Someone may bring in 58 credits but actually need 84 at MU to graduate.

JUCO's have been pretty good about making sure kids are taking the proper classes to meet transfer requirements. The NCAA has severely limited the number of PE courses one can transfer for eligibility and JUCO's have academic advisors for D1 bound student-athletes to make sure they're meeting the transfer requirements to get them eligible when they do transfer. However, even with that it may be easier for them to go to UWM or UIC than MU or DePaul and be in track for graduating on-time.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BLM on May 01, 2020, 01:24:02 PM
but wades and Keefe said that's not true.  Hmmm....

I did? I don’t think I ever said a word about Jucos and Wake Forrest. If I did please share the post, I’d love to see it.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on May 01, 2020, 01:38:59 PM
The problem with JUCO's and transferring to a four year like Marquette and other private/religious schools is that those schools have requirements that are not offered at a JUCO (Theology, Philosophy, other specific courses that are part of a core curriculum). So when a student transfers most of their credits will transfer but they still have outstanding requirements for graduation (as you did) on top of the remaining credits. So, while a student entering as a freshman may need 128 credits to graduate to MU (that was the requirement when I was there) it may actually take 140 for a JUCO or other transfer to graduate due to not every transferrable class going towards graduation requirements.

I was aware of the credit requirements when I came in, what surprised me was that as a communications major, my previous journalism classes were all converted to general education electives & many of the English courses I took were downgraded (I was an English minor). The one that got me the most was Shakespeare; I was told I needed a Shakespeare class for my minor so I pointed to the two Shakespeare classes, one poetry and one plays, that I took through UWW that were both the hundred level equivalent of the course MU wanted me to take, which turned out to be a less thorough review of classes I had already taken.

Regardless, bottom line, there are a lot more impediments to getting transfers caught up on the path to graduation than a one-and-done freshman that can get by on electives.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 01, 2020, 01:52:31 PM
I was aware of the credit requirements when I came in, what surprised me was that as a communications major, my previous journalism classes were all converted to general education electives & many of the English courses I took were downgraded (I was an English minor). The one that got me the most was Shakespeare; I was told I needed a Shakespeare class for my minor so I pointed to the two Shakespeare classes, one poetry and one plays, that I took through UWW that were both the hundred level equivalent of the course MU wanted me to take, which turned out to be a less thorough review of classes I had already taken.

Regardless, bottom line, there are a lot more impediments to getting transfers caught up on the path to graduation than a one-and-done freshman that can get by on electives.


That's more of a Marquette problem than anything else.  I have heard of other students transfering into Marquette who have had similar issues.  And its kind of ridiculous.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: TAMU Eagle on May 01, 2020, 03:22:39 PM

That's more of a Marquette problem than anything else.  I have heard of other students transfering into Marquette who have had similar issues.  And its kind of ridiculous.

I've heard a lot of stories about having trouble with getting MU to accept transfer credits. In high school, I took some language classes at the University of Minnesota for college credit. It took me a year of bargaining and arguing with Marquette before they accepted the credits.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 01, 2020, 10:05:49 PM

That's more of a Marquette problem than anything else.  I have heard of other students transfering into Marquette who have had similar issues.  And its kind of ridiculous.

Jae Crowder.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Galway Eagle on May 02, 2020, 12:17:31 PM
Jae Crowder.

A little different seeing as one of his schools wasn't accredited
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: GooooMarquette on May 02, 2020, 01:43:43 PM
It's interesting reading the Wake boards and how giddy they are over this hire...calling it a "home run hire". Understandably after the Manning tenure, it sure would feel like a 'home run hire". For Wake Forest, it is a "home run hire". I'm curious to know how MU fans would feel if MU were to make this hire?? For me, this would NOT be a home run hire..at least not under normal circumstances. It would be like a bunt single to me.

I think WF's fences are quite a bit closer to home plate than they are in most places...
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: tower912 on May 02, 2020, 01:44:27 PM
I think WF's fences are quite a bit closer to home plate than they are in most places...
Great phraseology!
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 17, 2020, 03:25:39 PM
This is...stunning..

Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanHoops
·
May 17
BREAKING: Green Bay has parted ways with Linc Darner, source told @Stadium
. Darner was 92-80 in five seasons was 12 games above .500 in Horizon play, and his contract was through 2026.

Darner and his staff were completely blindsided.

This one is baffling.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: HutchwasClutch on May 17, 2020, 03:37:56 PM
This is...stunning..

Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanHoops
·
May 17
BREAKING: Green Bay has parted ways with Linc Darner, source told @Stadium
. Darner was 92-80 in five seasons was 12 games above .500 in Horizon play, and his contract was through 2026.

Darner and his staff were completely blindsided.

This one is baffling.

Sure is. Why now suddenly especially.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: tower912 on May 17, 2020, 03:49:44 PM
Budget cuts?   About to cut the basketball program completely?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 17, 2020, 03:52:18 PM
That is strange.  He was only making about $230k so its not that much of a cost cutting move, unless they slow roll the hiring of a new coach.  Or something bad happened.

Or maybe they are considering dropping down to D2 or D3. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MUfan12 on May 17, 2020, 03:52:30 PM
Budget cuts?   About to cut the basketball program completely?

That athletic department runs on a shoestring budget. Eating 6 years of a contract? I dunno.

It would not surprise me if they eventually drop a level.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 17, 2020, 03:54:35 PM
Sure doesn't seem like a cost cutting move..

Kevin Sweeney
@CBB_Central
·
22m
Per @nybuckets
 and @mid_madness
’ handy database, Darner’s buyout on his original deal (extension wasn’t there) was one year’s base salary, so this isn’t the major financial move his long contract implies.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 17, 2020, 03:54:57 PM
That athletic department runs on a shoestring budget. Eating 6 years of a contract? I dunno.

It would not surprise me if they eventually drop a level.


We don't know what the buy out was.  Or maybe they'll try the "for cause" angle.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 17, 2020, 04:31:27 PM
Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanHoops
·
20s
Getting a ton of coaches in industry texting me with shock at Linc Darner’s dismissal - especially at a time when so many schools having to cut budget.

Darner went to the NCAA five years ago in his first season at the helm. It was first time in 19 seasons for the program.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 17, 2020, 04:36:49 PM
That is strange.  He was only making about $230k so its not that much of a cost cutting move, unless they slow roll the hiring of a new coach.  Or something bad happened.

Or maybe they are considering dropping down to D2 or D3.



Fluffy BM, ewe coachin' material, hey?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 17, 2020, 04:57:31 PM
Darner’s base salary was $230,000 per season. If UWGB must pay the entire contract because it fired him due to performance, the school would owe him more than $1 million. If the school fired him with cause – such as violating an NCAA rule – they could get out of paying him. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 17, 2020, 05:05:07 PM
Darner’s base salary was $230,000 per season. If UWGB must pay the entire contract because it fired him due to performance, the school would owe him more than $1 million. If the school fired him with cause – such as violating an NCAA rule – they could get out of paying him. 

Guru up above you posted a tweet saying that it was one year base salary. At least initially.  My guess is the assistants were largely at will.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 17, 2020, 05:08:59 PM
Guru up above you posted a tweet saying that it was one year base salary. At least initially.  My guess is the assistants were largely at will.

Yes, that was a tweet from Sweeney, the last item I posted was right from the GB Press Gazette

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/2020/05/17/uwgb-mens-basketball-coach-linc-darner-fired-school/5209964002/
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 17, 2020, 05:11:03 PM
Yes, that was a tweet from Sweeney, the last item I posted was right from the GB Press Gazette

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/2020/05/17/uwgb-mens-basketball-coach-linc-darner-fired-school/5209964002/

That’s why they used the word “if.”  I would be amazed if the entire contract was guaranteed.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 17, 2020, 05:17:08 PM
Kevin Sweeney
@CBB_Central
·
May 17
Can confirm it’s one year of base salary on Darner’s contract as the buyout, which still had five years left on it. Tough timing to make a move... you had better have a plan if you’re doing something right now.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Marq3332 on May 17, 2020, 05:17:37 PM
There must be more to the story here. Darner is a good coach. Did a good job in a difficult locale to recruit to. I would think his head coaching experience would be invaluable to a major program as an assistant. Who knows, maybe he decides to sit a yr in what is an uncertain season anyway and see what options are available in ‘21.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on May 17, 2020, 05:21:04 PM
There must be more to the story here. Darner is a good coach. Did a good job in a difficult locale to recruit to. I would think his head coaching experience would be invaluable to a major program as an assistant. Who knows, maybe he decides to sit a yr in what is an uncertain season anyway and see what options are available in ‘21.

Would be interesting if he parked himself at the end of our bench for a year.  Or would that ruin his buyout?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on May 17, 2020, 05:29:44 PM
Would be interesting if he parked himself at the end of our bench for a year.  Or would that ruin his buyout?

Probably, that’s how buyouts usually work. But, it could be a similar situation to Ford at SLU having his buyout deducted from his new salary.

Question: can GB continue at D1? What is their financial situation?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 17, 2020, 05:35:17 PM
Would be interesting if he parked himself at the end of our bench for a year.  Or would that ruin his buyout?

1. Why at MU?
2. We don’t have room.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on May 17, 2020, 05:36:47 PM
Shocking to make a move on May 17th. Something doesn't add up. Not in Green Bay's DNA.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Skip Intro on May 17, 2020, 07:07:38 PM
That athletic department runs on a shoestring budget. Eating 6 years of a contract? I dunno.

It would not surprise me if they eventually drop a level.

It has to be either dropping from D1 or a pretty serious issue (unreported player issues, major recruiting violation, etc.).  There's no way his performance merited firing.

With the timing, I'm wondering if they let him know that they were probably dropping to D2/D3 after next season, gave him the option to stay, and he said no thanks.  If they aren't ready to announce the move publicly, they basically have to fire him without explanation. 

With the UW budget shortfalls that are bound to happen over the next few years, no doubt that relatively expensive athletic programs will be some of the first to go, at least temporarily.  Wouldn't doubt if a few UWM programs move down, or are dropped entirely.  In fact, it might actually make more sense for UWGB to drop the men's program entirely, knowing that they could always rejoin the Horizon someday. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 17, 2020, 07:20:18 PM
It has to be either dropping from D1 or a pretty serious issue (unreported player issues, major recruiting violation, etc.).  There's no way his performance merited firing.

With the timing, I'm wondering if they let him know that they were probably dropping to D2/D3 after next season, gave him the option to stay, and he said no thanks.  If they aren't ready to announce the move publicly, they basically have to fire him without explanation. 

With the UW budget shortfalls that are bound to happen over the next few years, no doubt that relatively expensive athletic programs will be some of the first to go, at least temporarily.  Wouldn't doubt if a few UWM programs move down, or are dropped entirely.  In fact, it might actually make more sense for UWGB to drop the men's program entirely, knowing that they could always rejoin the Horizon someday. 


**You can't drop down a few programs.  If you are division one, you are division one.  (With some exception for sports like lacrosse and hockey.)

**Men's basketball is likely their biggest money maker.  That's not the sport they would drop.

It's going to be interesting to see what comes out of this.  After thinking about it more, I doubt they are dropping to D2 or D3.  They don't have a huge array of sports, and none of the real expensive ones like football or hockey.  I guess if it's THAT bad its a possibility...

I am wondering if they just think its a way to get out from under their most expensive contract. 

Or something bad happened.  We will see.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 17, 2020, 07:26:30 PM

**You can't drop down a few programs.  If you are division one, you are division one.  (With some exception for sports like lacrosse and hockey.)

**Men's basketball is likely their biggest money maker.  That's not the sport they would drop.

It's going to be interesting to see what comes out of this.  After thinking about it more, I doubt they are dropping to D2 or D3.  They don't have a huge array of sports, and none of the real expensive ones like football or hockey.  I guess if it's THAT bad its a possibility...

I am wondering if they just think its a way to get out from under their most expensive contract. 

Or something bad happened.  We will see.

It's strange because there are more than a few posters on their board that are applauding this move, saying it was time for him to go. Not sure what they were/are expecting from that program.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 17, 2020, 07:29:06 PM
It's strange because there are more than a few posters on their board that are applauding this move, saying it was time for him to go. Not sure what they were/are expecting from that program.

Or who they’re going to get for that salary.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 17, 2020, 07:31:01 PM
Woj ta UWGB, aina?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Newsdreams on May 17, 2020, 08:17:30 PM
Woj ta UWGB, aina?
He would take a good class to UWGB, hey?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on May 17, 2020, 08:22:01 PM
Colleges are making millions off these players. Time for UWGB to upgrade.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Marq3332 on May 17, 2020, 09:57:07 PM
1. Why at MU?
2. We don’t have room.
1. Why not?
2. Make room
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MU82 on May 17, 2020, 11:52:58 PM
It's strange because there are more than a few posters on their board that are applauding this move, saying it was time for him to go. Not sure what they were/are expecting from that program.

They didn't want to accept mediocrity, obviously!
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 18, 2020, 07:18:55 AM
1. Why not?
2. Make room

1. Because he’s been nothing more than slightly above average at a low major.

2. Who are you firing?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Hards_Alumni on May 18, 2020, 09:18:54 AM
Or who they’re going to get for that salary.

I am available, spread the word!
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 18, 2020, 09:35:04 AM
I am available, spread the word!

Quite a few "qualified" applicants round these parts.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: tower912 on May 18, 2020, 09:43:39 AM
Ners gets my vote.   Then Guru.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 18, 2020, 09:51:21 AM
Ners gets my vote.   Then Guru.

 8-) You thought Green Bay played fast now?? Let me Coach them and they would be playing MUCH faster then they even played previously. :)
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on May 18, 2020, 11:34:16 AM
Statement from Green Bay:

https://greenbayphoenix.com/news/2020/5/18/statement-from-uw-green-bay-on-mens-basketball-program.aspx

"We are a Division I University and remain committed to continuing the legacy of our outstanding Division I athletics program in the future."
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: THRILLHO on May 18, 2020, 12:43:40 PM
It's strange because there are more than a few posters on their board that are applauding this move, saying it was time for him to go. Not sure what they were/are expecting from that program.

I guess I agree with them. His best year was his first year, with Wardle's players, and it's been downhill from there. This year was his 5th year, with a very experienced team, and they finished 100 spots lower in kenpom than his first year team. They've had some limited success by hiring really young guys on their way up (Kowalczyk, Wardle) and this guy doesn't seem to be on his way up after these 5 years. I admit the timing is bizarre and if they were firing him for his performance they should've done it earlier. Maybe he was trying to negotiate an extension and they got offended.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 18, 2020, 12:49:41 PM
Statement from Green Bay:

https://greenbayphoenix.com/news/2020/5/18/statement-from-uw-green-bay-on-mens-basketball-program.aspx

"We are a Division I University and remain committed to continuing the legacy of our outstanding Division I athletics program in the future."

This release sure makes it sound like it was mutual...yesterday Goodman reported the staff was "blindsided" by it.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 18, 2020, 12:52:55 PM
Releases are often written that way.  It doesn't do Darner any good not to play along as long as they abide by the terms of his contract.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 18, 2020, 01:20:11 PM
I guess I agree with them. His best year was his first year, with Wardle's players, and it's been downhill from there. This year was his 5th year, with a very experienced team, and they finished 100 spots lower in kenpom than his first year team. They've had some limited success by hiring really young guys on their way up (Kowalczyk, Wardle) and this guy doesn't seem to be on his way up after these 5 years. I admit the timing is bizarre and if they were firing him for his performance they should've done it earlier. Maybe he was trying to negotiate an extension and they got offended.


UWGB and UWM are poorly resourced schools in general, and their athletic departments even moreso.  I would guess that both of these jobs are in the lower third of the Horizon salary-wise, and the only time they have had any sustained success is when they were the stepping stone for coaches who went elsewhere and succeeded.  (Bo and Pearl at UWM, Dick Bennett at UWGB)

Really outside of when UWGB was coached by Dick Bennett and he recruited his own son to play there, they've been a non-entity basketball wise.  That was 25 years ago. 

I'm not saying Darner was the answer, but to think that either of these schools is going to be consistently successful with their crappy salaries and resources is expecting a miracle.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on May 18, 2020, 01:29:57 PM

UWGB and UWM are poorly resourced schools in general, and their athletic departments even moreso.  I would guess that both of these jobs are in the lower third of the Horizon salary-wise, and the only time they have had any sustained success is when they were the stepping stone for coaches who went elsewhere and succeeded.  (Bo and Pearl at UWM, Dick Bennett at UWGB)

Really outside of when UWGB was coached by Dick Bennett and he recruited his own son to play there, they've been a non-entity basketball wise.  That was 25 years ago. 

I'm not saying Darner was the answer, but to think that either of these schools is going to be consistently successful with their crappy salaries and resources is expecting a miracle.

I remember following the Tanned D-bag up to a game in the casino, where they ass stomped MU like MU was the directional school.  I think Tommy Naismith blew the soccer field donation in the casino later than night.  Actually u think that stiff has ever stepped foot in a casino or thrown back a cold one?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on May 18, 2020, 01:37:43 PM
I remember following the Tanned D-bag up to a game in the casino, where they ass stomped MU like MU was the directional school.  I think Tommy Naismith blew the soccer field donation in the casino later than night.  Actually u think that stiff has ever stepped foot in a casino or thrown back a cold one?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: THRILLHO on May 18, 2020, 02:07:28 PM

UWGB and UWM are poorly resourced schools in general, and their athletic departments even moreso.  I would guess that both of these jobs are in the lower third of the Horizon salary-wise, and the only time they have had any sustained success is when they were the stepping stone for coaches who went elsewhere and succeeded.  (Bo and Pearl at UWM, Dick Bennett at UWGB)

Really outside of when UWGB was coached by Dick Bennett and he recruited his own son to play there, they've been a non-entity basketball wise.  That was 25 years ago. 

I'm not saying Darner was the answer, but to think that either of these schools is going to be consistently successful with their crappy salaries and resources is expecting a miracle.

Maybe they have unrealistic expectations, but maybe they also have little to lose by cutting their losses when a guy isn't moving in the right direction. It could be they have great confidence in their ability to identify and hire up-and-comers (like a low-major version of the Butler way), and don't mind being a stepping stone. I would guess they don't ever anticipate being popular enough to get to a point where they can open up the bank to keep someone around.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: The Equalizer on May 18, 2020, 06:31:23 PM
I remember following the Tanned D-bag up to a game in the casino, where they ass stomped MU like MU was the directional school.  I think Tommy Naismith blew the soccer field donation in the casino later than night.  Actually u think that stiff has ever stepped foot in a casino or thrown back a cold one?

Our only game at UWGB (a loss) came during the Buzz Williams era:
http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/184190571.html/ (http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/184190571.html/)

I don't believe Buzz has ever thrown back a cold one.  One of his quirks and features.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: bananahammock on May 18, 2020, 08:41:33 PM
Our only game at UWGB (a loss) came during the Buzz Williams era:
http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/184190571.html/ (http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/184190571.html/)
Or he’s referring to the So Miss game in GB.

I don't believe Buzz has ever thrown back a cold one.  One of his quirks and features.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on May 18, 2020, 10:48:32 PM
Our only game at UWGB (a loss) came during the Buzz Williams era:
http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/184190571.html/ (http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/184190571.html/)

I don't believe Buzz has ever thrown back a cold one.  One of his quirks and features.

Ur saying the game didnt happen?? 😂😂
Were u born yet??
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 18, 2020, 11:51:37 PM
Hadn't seen this anywhere until tonight...this is really surprising. Would love to have him on staff if Wojo could find a position for him somehow..In a surprise move, the Vanderbilt men's basketball team has parted ways with assistant coaches David Grace and Ricardo Patton according to a Twitter posting.

    DAVID GRACE - VANDERBILT

    A feared recruiter, Grace is widely considered one of the best recruiters in the country. In 2016, he was ranked the best recruiter in the West and the 7th-best recruiter nationally based on an ESPN coaching peer survey. He helped the Bruins establish the No. 2 recruiting class for 2018, including nine top 100 prospects across back-to-back recruiting classes. Prior to a great run at UCLA, the Air Force veteran served under Craig Robinson from 2009-2013. During that time, he helped the Beavers to the highest five-year win total (78) since 1988-92. In addition, Grace played a key role in landing two nationally ranked recruits and lured Jared Cunningham to Oregon State who would later be selected in the first-round of the NBA Draft. He got his start in collegiate coaching at Sacramento State in 2006, recruiting 2006-07 Big Sky Freshman of the Year Vinnie McGhee before moving on to become the top assistant and recruiting coordinator at USF. Lastly, he is also known for turning around a South Mountain High School team that won just four games in the year before he arrived to take them to a state championship.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 1SE on May 19, 2020, 02:50:39 AM
Is Diener still in Italy? Seems like UWGB would be a good fit for him- isn't he from ip that way?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: TedBaxter on May 19, 2020, 06:20:48 AM
Hadn't seen this anywhere until tonight...this is really surprising. Would love to have him on staff if Wojo could find a position for him somehow..In a surprise move, the Vanderbilt men's basketball team has parted ways with assistant coaches David Grace and Ricardo Patton according to a Twitter posting.

    DAVID GRACE - VANDERBILT

    A feared recruiter, Grace is widely considered one of the best recruiters in the country. In 2016, he was ranked the best recruiter in the West and the 7th-best recruiter nationally based on an ESPN coaching peer survey. He helped the Bruins establish the No. 2 recruiting class for 2018, including nine top 100 prospects across back-to-back recruiting classes. Prior to a great run at UCLA, the Air Force veteran served under Craig Robinson from 2009-2013. During that time, he helped the Beavers to the highest five-year win total (78) since 1988-92. In addition, Grace played a key role in landing two nationally ranked recruits and lured Jared Cunningham to Oregon State who would later be selected in the first-round of the NBA Draft. He got his start in collegiate coaching at Sacramento State in 2006, recruiting 2006-07 Big Sky Freshman of the Year Vinnie McGhee before moving on to become the top assistant and recruiting coordinator at USF. Lastly, he is also known for turning around a South Mountain High School team that won just four games in the year before he arrived to take them to a state championship.

Get a little skeptical of assistant coaches who are considered to be strong recruiters and then are let go after the year.  He was also let go at UCLA, but that was after Alford was fired, but if an AD and head coach recognize coaching talent, a guy like Grace would be in hot demand.  We'll see where he lands.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 19, 2020, 07:02:57 AM
Is Diener still in Italy? Seems like UWGB would be a good fit for him- isn't he from ip that way?

He's from Fond du Lac.  So not really.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Uncle Rico on May 19, 2020, 07:12:01 AM
He's from Fond du Lac.  So not really.

I believe someone else said he’s no longer interested in coaching, either. 

Gary Grzesk is at St. Norbert’s.  If they want to chase the Bennett glory days, he’ll probably get the gig
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: asdfasdf on May 19, 2020, 08:55:00 AM
I believe someone else said he’s no longer interested in coaching, either. 

Gary Grzesk is at St. Norbert’s.  If they want to chase the Bennett glory days, he’ll probably get the gig

There is an assistant at Portland State, Chris Skinkis, who has ties to Wisconsin and Green Bay, and came through juco ranks. I wonder if that's a profile UWGB would pursue.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 19, 2020, 09:20:08 AM
What about Julian Swartz?? Former Green Bay player asst at Ga Tech right now
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on May 19, 2020, 09:51:39 AM
Ur saying the game didnt happen?? 😂😂
Were u born yet??

That is correct. What you are describing never happened. Marquette is 9-3 all time against Green Bay. The first loss came under Kevin O'Neill, the second under Mike Deane, and the third under Buzz Williams.

The combined losing margin of those three games was 5 points, so Marquette has never in history been "ass stomped" by Green Bay.

You are either lying or misremembering. Regardless, what you said did not happen.

https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/uw-green_bay
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 19, 2020, 10:00:11 AM
That is correct. What you are describing never happened. Marquette is 9-3 all time against Green Bay. The first loss came under Kevin O'Neill, the second under Mike Deane, and the third under Buzz Williams.

The combined losing margin of those three games was 5 points, so Marquette has never in history been "ass stomped" by Green Bay.

You are either lying or misremembering. Regardless, what you said did not happen.

https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/uw-green_bay

He has to be thinking of the game AT Green bay when S. Miss curb stomped MU. Ugh, I was there. Had to be one of the absolutely maddest I have ever been after an MU game(and that's saying a lot  :) ). Ruined my entire weekend. No way was I expecting that craptacular performance that night.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on May 19, 2020, 10:05:51 AM
Is Diener still in Italy? Seems like UWGB would be a good fit for him- isn't he from ip that way?

Why? Travis has no experience. His cousin Drew, however, had been a successful coach at Cardinal Stritch, and is  doing a solid job at D2 Rockhurst, a traditionally poor program.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 19, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
He has to be thinking of the game AT Green bay when S. Miss curb stomped MU. Ugh, I was there. Had to be one of the absolutely maddest I have ever been after an MU game(and that's saying a lot  :) ). Ruined my entire weekend. No way was I expecting that craptacular performance that night.

One of the low points for the I4 regime.   That game was dreadful.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on May 19, 2020, 11:18:18 AM
Why? Travis has no experience. His cousin Drew, however, had been a successful coach at Cardinal Stritch, and is  doing a solid job at D2 Rockhurst, a traditionally poor program.


I actually think Drew would be a very good move for UWGB.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: MUfan12 on May 19, 2020, 11:26:32 AM
He has to be thinking of the game AT Green bay when S. Miss curb stomped MU. Ugh, I was there. Had to be one of the absolutely maddest I have ever been after an MU game(and that's saying a lot  :) ). Ruined my entire weekend. No way was I expecting that craptacular performance that night.

Yeah that was a total sh*tshow.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: TAMU Eagle on May 19, 2020, 11:31:01 AM
He has to be thinking of the game AT Green bay when S. Miss curb stomped MU. Ugh, I was there. Had to be one of the absolutely maddest I have ever been after an MU game(and that's saying a lot  :) ). Ruined my entire weekend. No way was I expecting that craptacular performance that night.

I had never heard that story so I looked it up. Southern Miss sold a conference home game to an "independent promoter" and scheduled it at Green Bay in honor of alum Brett Favre. What a weird scheduling quirk
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on May 19, 2020, 11:54:02 AM
One of the low points for the I4 regime.   That game was dreadful.

for sure. However, the idea that our Head Coach stayed behind in GB while the rest of the team took the bus back to Milwaukee that night is laughable.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 19, 2020, 12:02:08 PM
This isn't really the right thread for this but how in the hell does this happen?? The "administrator" should probably be brushing up their resume

Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanHoops
 · 26m
Stephen F. Austin will have multiple sports - including men’s basketball - serve a postseason ban due to falling under the APR threshold. Sources told @Stadium it was due to an administrative error in academic certification process. Men’s basketball will serve ban in 2021-22.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on May 19, 2020, 12:35:08 PM
He has to be thinking of the game AT Green bay when S. Miss curb stomped MU. Ugh, I was there. Had to be one of the absolutely maddest I have ever been after an MU game(and that's saying a lot  :) ). Ruined my entire weekend. No way was I expecting that craptacular performance that night.

Yes you are correct.  I just remembered sitting behind the bench in GB and being embarrassed by a directional school we should never be embarrassed by, it wasnt GB.
Additionally, i apologize for not using teal for the boob that thought Tommy Naismith would stay behind.  And that he thought Mr. Personality was loose enuff to crack open a beer or step into a casino.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: willie warrior on May 19, 2020, 12:43:02 PM
That is correct. What you are describing never happened. Marquette is 9-3 all time against Green Bay. The first loss came under Kevin O'Neill, the second under Mike Deane, and the third under Buzz Williams.

The combined losing margin of those three games was 5 points, so Marquette has never in history been "ass stomped" by Green Bay.

You are either lying or misremembering. Regardless, what you said did not happen.

https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/uw-green_bay
One can easily make the argument that MU losing to Green Bay by even 1 point is definitely an ass stomping, because it should not happen.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: keefe on May 19, 2020, 01:14:14 PM
Yet another shameful chapter in the otherwise proud history of our beloved Warriors.

Goddam that man.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on May 19, 2020, 01:41:37 PM
This isn't really the right thread for this but how in the hell does this happen?? The "administrator" should probably be brushing up their resume

Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanHoops
 · 26m
Stephen F. Austin will have multiple sports - including men’s basketball - serve a postseason ban due to falling under the APR threshold. Sources told @Stadium it was due to an administrative error in academic certification process. Men’s basketball will serve ban in 2021-22.

they're actually not being penalized because of the "administrative error." Instead, they're being punished because they found that the scores reported were better than they should have been due to the error. When it was reviewed (all schools go through an APR audit) they found the scores were below the penalty threshold. So, if they had been reported correctly the first time the there programs would have been penalized. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on May 19, 2020, 01:47:19 PM
Yet another shameful chapter in the otherwise proud history of our beloved Warriors.

Goddam that man.

yeah, losing a conference game is so shameful. But actually losing to UWGB when not coached by Dick Bennett, or scoring 35 points in a home game or 39 in an NCAA tourney game, it's meh, all good.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on May 19, 2020, 01:51:29 PM
yeah, losing a conference game is so shameful. But actually losing to UWGB when not coached by Dick Bennett, or scoring 35 points in a home game or 39 in an NCAA tourney game, it's meh, all good.

Are u referring to the 39 we scored in a home  NIT game in yet another loss to a directional school with a mid major roster.  Because we actually scored 40!! in that performance!! Referring to our roster As mid major with a 6’8” power forward juco transfer playing point guard. Man i hated Crean!!
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: The Lens on May 19, 2020, 03:02:31 PM
Losing to UWGB is exactly why you shouldn't worry about playing lesser in-state schools:

Loss #1 ----> 1994 Sweet 16
Loss #2 ----> 1995 NIT Runner Up
Loss #3 ----> 2013 Elite 8

(Not advocating for scheduling every Horizon team but I'd have no problem keeping UWM & UWGB on the schedule)
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on May 19, 2020, 04:31:37 PM
I had never heard that story so I looked it up. Southern Miss sold a conference home game to an "independent promoter" and scheduled it at Green Bay in honor of alum Brett Favre. What a weird scheduling quirk

Youth.    ::)
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on May 19, 2020, 05:07:09 PM
Are u referring to the 39 we scored in a home  NIT game in yet another loss to a directional school with a mid major roster.  Because we actually scored 40!! in that performance!! Referring to our roster As mid major with a 6’8” power forward juco transfer playing point guard. Man i hated Crean!!

no, the 39 we scored in the Elite Eight with a fully healthy roster, unlike the aforementioned game.

Final Four, conference title, NCAA wins, Big East, getting the Al funded, Wade, Novak, Diener and Wes going off to the NBA, 8 post season appearances in 9 years, winning seasons every year.  Yeah, it was such a horrible time to be a Marquette fan.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: tower912 on May 19, 2020, 05:08:30 PM
Cream against Western Michigan and MSU.   Buzz against Syracuse.   Nothing there to brag about.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 19, 2020, 06:29:01 PM
Cream against Western Michigan and MSU.   Buzz against Syracuse.   Nothing there to brag about.

Don't think the inclusion of a game played without our best player makes sense in this exercise. 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 19, 2020, 06:31:23 PM
Don't think the inclusion of a game played without our best player makes sense in this exercise.

To be fair, MU could have been without their three top players and that's still a game they should win. Period.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 4everwarriors on May 19, 2020, 06:32:19 PM
Cream against Western Michigan and MSU.   Buzz against Syracuse.   Nothing there to brag about.




Yeah, da deuce Crean dropped wuz at home in da NIT, hey?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Lennys Tap on May 19, 2020, 09:10:39 PM
Cream against Western Michigan and MSU.   Buzz against Syracuse.   Nothing there to brag about.

Agreed. But that Syracuse team was a tad better than NIT W Michigan and 8 seed MSU - they routed The Bronze Bullsh*tter’s #1 seeded Hoosiers a round earlier and their win over us put them in the FF.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: keefe on May 19, 2020, 10:19:34 PM
One of the low points for the I4 regime.   That game was dreadful.

Still, when we go through the Cavalcade of Contrition that was the Arrogant Asswipe's tenure the most disgraceful episode was our thrashing by KU. To be humiliated on so public a stage was hateful.

I felt like the Sand Pebbles crew peeling off their tomato stained uniforms to be burned as I tossed my Marquette tee onto the floor that night.

 
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Ellenson Family Reunion on May 20, 2020, 08:06:27 AM
no, the 39 we scored in the Elite Eight with a fully healthy roster, unlike the aforementioned game.

Final Four, conference title, NCAA wins, Big East, getting the Al funded, Wade, Novak, Diener and Wes going off to the NBA, 8 post season appearances in 9 years, winning seasons every year.  Yeah, it was such a horrible time to be a Marquette fan.

Speaking of, has the check cleared for the soccer stadium yet?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Eye on May 20, 2020, 08:25:31 AM
This isn't really the right thread for this but how in the hell does this happen?? The "administrator" should probably be brushing up their resume

Jeff Goodman
@GoodmanHoops
 · 26m
Stephen F. Austin will have multiple sports - including men’s basketball - serve a postseason ban due to falling under the APR threshold. Sources told @Stadium it was due to an administrative error in academic certification process. Men’s basketball will serve ban in 2021-22.

Sounds like the HS administrator in my part of the world getting close to 20 years ago now that either forgot or didn't know that regular-season suspensions extended into the entire postseason, and got her school's football team kicked out of the playoffs after they had it made it to the state semi's. Got reminded by the wrestling coach.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Golden Avalanche on May 20, 2020, 10:39:58 AM
To be fair, MU could have been without their three top players and that's still a game they should win. Period.

You think Marquette should no doubt win a hypothetical 8/9 game against one of the best defensive teams in the country without the services of McNeal, James, nor Matthews?
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: BM1090 on May 20, 2020, 10:46:45 AM
You think Marquette should no doubt win a hypothetical 8/9 game against one of the best defensive teams in the country without the services of McNeal, James, nor Matthews?

I'm sure he was referring to the Western Michigan NIT game.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: tower912 on May 20, 2020, 10:49:37 AM
Clearly the WMU NIT game.    Losing to Sparty without Jerel was excruciating to go through but not as embarrassing.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on May 20, 2020, 12:33:44 PM
I'm sure he was referring to the Western Michigan NIT game.

I was
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: We R Final Four on May 20, 2020, 01:21:22 PM
no, the 39 we scored in the Elite Eight with a fully healthy roster, unlike the aforementioned game.

Final Four, conference title, NCAA wins, Big East, getting the Al funded, Wade, Novak, Diener and Wes going off to the NBA, 8 post season appearances in 9 years, winning seasons every year.  Yeah, it was such a horrible time to be a Marquette fan.
Cheeks is still defending his boy after all these years??
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on May 20, 2020, 01:40:48 PM
Cheeks ahole still flaps in the breeze a dozen or so years after that loser left.
Incidents like Riley and the MU bball camp or the Crean family decked out in Cream and Crimson just exemplify how horrible of a social misfit that guy is. Borderline sociopath.  Maybe explains why chicos n Tommy were such a good “fit”
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on June 06, 2020, 07:45:54 PM
Will Ryan, new coach at Green Bay

https://mobile.twitter.com/WBAY/status/1269402447627370496
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Herman Cain on June 06, 2020, 08:04:26 PM
Will Ryan, new coach at Green Bay

https://mobile.twitter.com/WBAY/status/1269402447627370496
Good move by UWGB
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: HutchwasClutch on June 06, 2020, 08:07:19 PM
Will Ryan, new coach at Green Bay

https://mobile.twitter.com/WBAY/status/1269402447627370496

Will be interesting to see how he does.  This seems a risky move by GB. Darner wasn’t spectacular, but solid. They could certainly do worse than Darner.  And Ryan has only one season running his own program.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 06, 2020, 08:42:41 PM
Assistant on bad team. Mediocre in one season as head coach at D2 school. Gets head gig at D1 school due to his name. Pathetic.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: hoops12 on June 06, 2020, 08:56:51 PM
Sounds a little like Buzz Williams when hired by Marquette. I think that turned out pretty well. Good luck to Will Ryan!
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 06, 2020, 08:57:23 PM
Sounds a little like Buzz Williams when hired by Marquette. I think that turned out pretty well. Good luck to Will Ryan!

Well not really.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: WhiteTrash on June 06, 2020, 09:07:50 PM
Sounds a little like Buzz Williams when hired by Marquette. I think that turned out pretty well. Good luck to Will Ryan!
Not really apples to apples.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on June 06, 2020, 09:20:27 PM
The masseuses in Brown Co are lining up at the Resch Center.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on June 06, 2020, 10:17:58 PM
I guess some people just get to turn in their dad's resume and still get the job.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: muguru on June 06, 2020, 10:30:39 PM
I guess some people just get to turn in their dad's resume and still get the job.

He's getting either a 5 or 6 year deal..up to 200k per year

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/2020/06/06/uwgb-name-ryan-its-new-mens-basketball-coach/3158834001/
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: HutchwasClutch on June 06, 2020, 11:16:43 PM
From what I’ve read, turning in a .500 record was a borderline miracle. He took over last summer and had to cobble a roster together.  He wouldn’t have been considered without the pedigree, but maybe he’s got ability. We’ll see. The connection should help a program like GB in stirring up fan and WI recruits interest in their program. 

Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 07, 2020, 05:07:26 AM
Sounds a little like Buzz Williams when hired by Marquette. I think that turned out pretty well. Good luck to Will Ryan!



#caucasianperk
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 07, 2020, 10:48:45 AM
Masseuses in Greeen Bay get ready the Ryan's are coming to town.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 08, 2020, 07:22:03 AM
Ah, good old nepotism
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 08, 2020, 01:47:22 PM
Ah, good old nepotism

Hopefully, his tenure goes better than Patrick Beilein's went at Niagara off the court.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 08, 2020, 02:01:38 PM
Hopefully, his tenure goes better than Patrick Beilein's went at Niagara off the court.

Well, if the family history is any indication, it’s a 50-50 proposition at best
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 08, 2020, 02:54:49 PM
Well, if the family history is any indication, it’s a 50-50 proposition at best

at least Bo wasn't dipping his pen into company ink.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 08, 2020, 03:33:29 PM
at least Bo wasn't dipping his pen into company ink.

I wouldn’t be so sure of that.  Just saying...
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 08, 2020, 03:54:10 PM
I wouldn’t be so sure of that.  Just saying...

an assistant's wife?

I asked a friend who is a former D1 coach what he thought of the hire. "Such a joke, but the AD is an idiot so I'm not surprised." This coach knew the AD when the current GB AD was a JUCO AD.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 08, 2020, 05:01:09 PM
an assistant's wife?

I asked a friend who is a former D1 coach what he thought of the hire. "Such a joke, but the AD is an idiot so I'm not surprised." This coach knew the AD when the current GB AD was a JUCO AD.

Yeah I’m failing to see how they made an upgrade here. I mean they’ll get some mileage on Bo’s son, but that’s going to wear off without wins.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on June 09, 2020, 09:42:28 AM
It sounds like Wojo just got a paycut   https://www.accountingtoday.com/articles/irs-rules-target-coaches-at-duke-notre-dame-hospital-chiefs
The IRS issued guidance on Friday that implements a change in the 2017 tax overhaul, and levies a 21 percent excise tax on some nonprofit employees’ salaries above $1 million. The tax could also hit many highly compensated private college coaches as well as non-profit hospital executives, such as Kenneth Davis at Mount Sinai in New York or Yale New Haven Hospital’s Marna Borgstrom.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 09, 2020, 09:46:16 AM
The tax is paid by the organization, not the employee.

Weird that it doesn't apply to public universities because they don't file as 501 institutions.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Marq3332 on June 27, 2020, 08:47:37 PM
https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/replacing-a-legend-who-might-duke-turn-to-after-coach-k-era-
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 27, 2020, 08:52:42 PM
https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/replacing-a-legend-who-might-duke-turn-to-after-coach-k-era-


So they name five guys who played for him.  How earthshattering.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Herman Cain on June 27, 2020, 10:04:28 PM

So they name five guys who played for him.  How earthshattering.
It is the summer, there is no summer ball  and they need page views.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Marq3332 on June 28, 2020, 06:38:46 AM
It is the summer, there is no summer ball  and they need page views.
agreed. Predictable. (Though not a former player at Duke, I think Mike Brey is the guy Duke will turn to should K retire within the next couple of seasons...which I think happens especially-so if the Zion mess bites em hard.)
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: brewcity77 on June 28, 2020, 06:49:45 AM
agreed. Predictable. (Though not a former player at Duke, I think Mike Brey is the guy Duke will turn to should K retire within the next couple of seasons...which I think happens especially-so if the Zion mess bites em hard.)

I can't see Duke going for a new hire in his 60s that plays slow-down basketball and doesn't recruit at a high level.
Title: Re: 2020 Coaching Carousel
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 28, 2020, 07:35:09 AM
Bray aslo hasn't been a Duke assistant for 25 years.  Maybe if Coach K retired ten years ago Bray would have been the choice, but I can't see it now.

If I were Duke, I would see how the next couple of years to see how Capel does at Pitt.  He can at least recruit.