2020 Coaching Carousel

[MU82]

I think you're right that ADs could find the money if they wanted to, but will need to work to justify the expense. Particularly in situations where the coach isn't failing as hard as Manning did.

For instance, from a financial standpoint, I don't think Marquette could justify firing Wojo anytime soon based on his performance.

That could be true. Hopefully, we don't have to find out!

[keefe]

Good point, I guess there were probably quite a few coaches on the hot seat that only survived because of covid-19

Doc tells us that there is a DI coach living next door to him in the Quon whose sphincter was wired tighter than a Cobeen coed's chastity belt on a September Saturday night. Seems he looked at the schedule and saw the Hall then a probable 8/9 matchup looming large in his future.

As soon as the season was cancelled he let loose with a soul searing massive and was seen the next day spreading manure around the ranch. Best damn tulips on the street, hey Doc? 

[muguru]

It's interesting reading the Wake boards and how giddy they are over this hire...calling it a "home run hire". Understandably after the Manning tenure, it sure would feel like a 'home run hire". For Wake Forest, it is a "home run hire". I'm curious to know how MU fans would feel if MU were to make this hire?? For me, this would NOT be a home run hire..at least not under normal circumstances. It would be like a bunt single to me.

[The Sultan]

I wouldn't be all that excited about someone from the Bruce Pearl / Gregg Marshall coaching tree whose success is based primarily on Juco transfers.

[tower912]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Forbes_(basketball)


His bio reads like a longer version of Buzz's.    His success at ETSU was due to tapping into his JUCO connections.   He can coach.   He has never had the seat at a high major.    I am sure, like everything else on scoop, that there would be deep fissures in the reactions to a hire like this one for Marquette. 

And this is the best that Wake thought they could get.    It makes me believe even more fervently that if Wojo leaves that Wardle will be the next head coach at MU. 

[Silkk the Shaka]

It's interesting reading the Wake boards and how giddy they are over this hire...calling it a "home run hire". Understandably after the Manning tenure, it sure would feel like a 'home run hire". For Wake Forest, it is a "home run hire". I'm curious to know how MU fans would feel if MU were to make this hire?? For me, this would NOT be a home run hire..at least not under normal circumstances. It would be like a bunt single to me.

I would love it. His floor was 24 total wins & worst conference record was 13-5 over 5 years. Major improvement over the previous 5 years of the program. And I think we should be taking JUCOs, don't care that's how he won. The guy can clearly coach. If he didn't produce in 5 years at MU, give him the heave and try again.

[MU82]

It's interesting reading the Wake boards and how giddy they are over this hire...calling it a "home run hire". Understandably after the Manning tenure, it sure would feel like a 'home run hire". For Wake Forest, it is a "home run hire". I'm curious to know how MU fans would feel if MU were to make this hire?? For me, this would NOT be a home run hire..at least not under normal circumstances. It would be like a bunt single to me.

His resume is at least as good as Chris Beard's was, actually quite a bit better.

Almost every hire is a "gamble." I mean, even when Kentucky hired Calipari, it was a gamble that he wouldn't get caught cheating, a gamble that he wouldn't want to try the NBA again in 2 years, etc.

Forbes might suck at Wake. Or he might revive the program.

But yes, plenty of Scoopers would have hated this hire. Just as many hated us hiring Buzz. Just as most would have gone ballistic had we hired Beard.

Fun in Fanboard Land!

[The Sultan]

I don't mind some Jucos, but Forbes is like Buzz on steroids.  I don't think that's a high major winning formula.

[muguru]

I will say this, at least he has had head coaching experience..so that would be a plus over an unproven assistant. However, this still wouldn't excite me that much. Now let me qualify that, as a "fallback" option after your top choices have said no..I'd be okay with it, but with Wake, he was their top choice...at MU, I certainly would not want Steve Forbes being the top candidate.

[GoldenWarrior11]

It's interesting reading the Wake boards and how giddy they are over this hire...calling it a "home run hire". Understandably after the Manning tenure, it sure would feel like a 'home run hire". For Wake Forest, it is a "home run hire". I'm curious to know how MU fans would feel if MU were to make this hire?? For me, this would NOT be a home run hire..at least not under normal circumstances. It would be like a bunt single to me.

Like many topics, there would be a noticeable split haha. 

Personally, I do think it is a good hire - for the reasons that Forbes is a proven head coach that has won at multiple schools as a head coach (Manning had two so-so years at Tulsa before being hired at Wake).  He's been an assistant at top basketball programs like TA&M, Tennessee and Wichita State in the past fifteen years.  He has experience at the JUCO, low-major, mid-major and high-major programs.  Ironically, Forbes and Buzz were together for two seasons at A&M (04-06). 

Now, the people that are likely upset at the hire the same ones who feel frustrated and confused why coaches like Beilein, Matta and other available successful retreads are not considered for open vacancies. 

Wake went with a "name" with Manning.  He was only an assistant for six seasons followed by two underwhelming years at Tulsa.  Wake is definitely in the top-half of the ACC of jobs, IMO.  Wake could have done better that go-around.  Glad to see Forbes finally get a high-major opportunity.  I think he will be very successful there. 

[TedBaxter]

Whether he was guilty, he was given a Show-Cause penalty by the NCAA for being on Bruce Pearl's staff at Tennessee, so no, I would not be excited if he was hired by Marquette.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I would love it. His floor was 24 total wins & worst conference record was 13-5 over 5 years. Major improvement over the previous 5 years of the program. And I think we should be taking JUCOs, don't care that's how he won. The guy can clearly coach. If he didn't produce in 5 years at MU, give him the heave and try again.

The problem with hiring a coach who relies on JUCOs isn't a "high horsed, we're too good for JUCOs" problem. It's a "there are now very few JUCOs every year who are capable of being high major starters" problem. Getting the best JUCOs every year is a winning formula in the Southern Conference. I don't think it is a winning formula in the ACC. Forbes may end up being a very good hire for Wake Forest. If he is, I expect it will be because he translated his JUCO recruiting chops into high school and transfer recruiting chops, while occasionally grabbing one of the few high major ready JUCOs.

[The Sultan]

The problem with hiring a coach who relies on JUCOs isn't a "high horsed, we're too good for JUCOs" problem. It's a "there are now very few JUCOs every year who are capable of being high major starters" problem. Getting the best JUCOs every year is a winning formula in the Southern Conference. I don't think it is a winning formula in the ACC. Forbes may end up being a very good hire for Wake Forest. If he is, I expect it will be because he translated his JUCO recruiting chops into high school and transfer recruiting chops, while occasionally grabbing one of the few high major ready JUCOs.

Thank you.  Exactly.  There is a reason that the Juco model isn't followed much at the high major level, and even coaches like Buzz rely less on them than before.

You have said this before, but I think Buzz's recruitment of Jucos at MU was more due to connections plus good fortune that a number of high-impact Jucos were available.  It's far from being the norm.

[Uncle Rico]

Wake is going to fight Danny Manning over what he is owed, so they many save some cash that way

[Galway Eagle]

Thank you.  Exactly.  There is a reason that the Juco model isn't followed much at the high major level, and even coaches like Buzz rely less on them than before.

You have said this before, but I think Buzz's recruitment of Jucos at MU was more due to connections plus good fortune that a number of high-impact Jucos were available.  It's far from being the norm.

Yeah during that stretch I can only think of two jucos I wish we had gotten in that guy at Baylor and that guy at Some SEC school. And I guess Jameel McKay if you don't count him for us.

[MU82]

The problem with hiring a coach who relies on JUCOs isn't a "high horsed, we're too good for JUCOs" problem. It's a "there are now very few JUCOs every year who are capable of being high major starters" problem. Getting the best JUCOs every year is a winning formula in the Southern Conference. I don't think it is a winning formula in the ACC. Forbes may end up being a very good hire for Wake Forest. If he is, I expect it will be because he translated his JUCO recruiting chops into high school and transfer recruiting chops, while occasionally grabbing one of the few high major ready JUCOs.

Superb post, TAMU.

Just getting JUCOs isn't what helped Buzz. Getting outstanding JUCOs did.

Buzz also landed numerous highly ranked high school kids, including some right at the end before he bolted. Some of his top-100 kids ended up not panning out in college, but he still got them.

Forbes no doubt felt JUCOs could help a lot at ETSU. In the ACC, he will have plenty of competition for high school recruits, but he also will have a lot more to sell them than he did at ETSU.

[Billy Hoyle]

Like many topics, there would be a noticeable split haha. 

Personally, I do think it is a good hire - for the reasons that Forbes is a proven head coach that has won at multiple schools as a head coach (Manning had two so-so years at Tulsa before being hired at Wake).  He's been an assistant at top basketball programs like TA&M, Tennessee and Wichita State in the past fifteen years.  He has experience at the JUCO, low-major, mid-major and high-major programs.  Ironically, Forbes and Buzz were together for two seasons at A&M (04-06). 

Now, the people that are likely upset at the hire the same ones who feel frustrated and confused why coaches like Beilein, Matta and other available successful retreads are not considered for open vacancies. 

Wake went with a "name" with Manning.  He was only an assistant for six seasons followed by two underwhelming years at Tulsa.  Wake is definitely in the top-half of the ACC of jobs, IMO.  Wake could have done better that go-around.  Glad to see Forbes finally get a high-major opportunity.  I think he will be very successful there.

no way.  Unless Wake promised to scrap their admissions standards for recruiting he's going to struggle. I went through the rosters back to 2012, no JUCO's, but plenty of kids from high-level private schools. That's Wake as a school in a nutshell. ACC coaches ranked it 11th in the conference with the second toughest admission requirements to Notre Dame and second-worst budget/recourses to BC. The polar opposite of ETSU.

It's the smallest Power 5 school, high admission standards, strict liberal arts curriculum with no place to really "hide" at-risk student-athletes, an off-campus, aging arena, overshadowed in its own state by Duke, UNC and NC State. The limited success they've had over the last 25 years is due to luck in getting some generational players - Duncan, a lightly recruited kid originally from the Virgin Islands, Randolph Childress, and Chris Paul, a hometown kid who chose Wake right primarily because grandfather died.

https://watchstadium.com/acc-coaches-vote-duke-best-job-in-conference-unc-third-best-10-04-2018/

[brewcity77]

Wake is definitely in the top-half of the ACC of jobs, IMO.

Top half means at worst the 8th best job. I'll grant Boston College as a clearly tougher job. Beyond that, I don't think anyone is clearly behind Wake. What about the top end?

I would say that Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Louisville, and Syracuse are all categorically better jobs. Like not even close. I feel like Florida State, NC State, Georgia Tech, and Notre Dame are safely ahead of Wake. That leaves them in a dogfight for the 10th best job with Pittsburgh, Clemson, Miami, and Virginia Tech, all of which have larger alumni bases, more money and donors, and are significantly more prominent regionally than Wake Forest is.

Wake, to me, is one of the worst jobs in the ACC and at best in the bottom quarter of high-major jobs.

[The Sultan]

Top half means at worst the 8th best job. I'll grant Boston College as a clearly tougher job. Beyond that, I don't think anyone is clearly behind Wake. What about the top end?

I would say that Duke, North Carolina, Virginia, Louisville, and Syracuse are all categorically better jobs. Like not even close. I feel like Florida State, NC State, Georgia Tech, and Notre Dame are safely ahead of Wake. That leaves them in a dogfight for the 10th best job with Pittsburgh, Clemson, Miami, and Virginia Tech, all of which have larger alumni bases, more money and donors, and are significantly more prominent regionally than Wake Forest is.

Wake, to me, is one of the worst jobs in the ACC and at best in the bottom quarter of high-major jobs.

I can nitpick some of these, like Georgia Tech, but by and large as Wake has fallen off over the last decade, the ACC expanded and pushed them further down the pecking order.

Don't get me wrong, they have a good history and a good coach CAN win there, but right now it's not a great job. 

[shoothoops]

John Currie worked with Forbes at Tennessee. He knows what he is getting in Forbes.

[brewcity77]

I can nitpick some of these, like Georgia Tech, but by and large as Wake has fallen off over the last decade, the ACC expanded and pushed them further down the pecking order.

Don't get me wrong, they have a good history and a good coach CAN win there, but right now it's not a great job.

Fair point, personally I view Georgia Tech as sort of an opposite Wake. They have a fertile recruiting ground and all the resources, but it hasn't been great because frankly, the hires they've made haven't been very good. I think a good coach would win there, but Pastner and Gregory just aren't that.

[WarriorDad]

It's interesting reading the Wake boards and how giddy they are over this hire...calling it a "home run hire". Understandably after the Manning tenure, it sure would feel like a 'home run hire". For Wake Forest, it is a "home run hire". I'm curious to know how MU fans would feel if MU were to make this hire?? For me, this would NOT be a home run hire..at least not under normal circumstances. It would be like a bunt single to me.

How many home run hires flame out?  Feels high.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Superb post, TAMU.

Just getting JUCOs isn't what helped Buzz. Getting outstanding JUCOs did.

Buzz also landed numerous highly ranked high school kids, including some right at the end before he bolted. Some of his top-100 kids ended up not panning out in college, but he still got them.

Forbes no doubt felt JUCOs could help a lot at ETSU. In the ACC, he will have plenty of competition for high school recruits, but he also will have a lot more to sell them than he did at ETSU.

Agreed re: outstanding. I don't just want JUCO's for the sake of having them. But as long as they are eligible to play by NCAA guidelines and the coach feels like they are worthy of a roster spot, I do not want them restricted from MU.

[brewcity77]

I'm curious to know how MU fans would feel if MU were to make this hire??

Marquette wouldn't have made this hire even if they were in the market, but I'd be very happy with a coach that had Forbes resume. He won significantly every year, but I always like to look at how someone does compared to their peers. In 5 years at ETSU, he never had an adjusted offensive or defensive efficiency rank lower than 4th. As a team, his Adjusted Efficiency was never worse than 3rd in the league. Every single year, he had one of the best teams in his league and they were performing on both ends of the court. And he did that in a time when many mid-majors are struggling to keep roster consistency. Finally, if he's successful, it's likely his last stop.

In addition, he was highly successful (62-6) in the JUCO ranks and has recruited at major programs like TAMU, Tennessee, and Wichita State. I don't think he's a Marquette fit because it feels an awful lot like dropping bags and securing the kind of commits the program has moved away from, but strictly from a basketball perspective, it's a really nice hire.

[asdfasdf]

Marquette wouldn't have made this hire even if they were in the market, but I'd be very happy with a coach that had Forbes resume. He won significantly every year, but I always like to look at how someone does compared to their peers. In 5 years at ETSU, he never had an adjusted offensive or defensive efficiency rank lower than 4th. As a team, his Adjusted Efficiency was never worse than 3rd in the league. Every single year, he had one of the best teams in his league and they were performing on both ends of the court. And he did that in a time when many mid-majors are struggling to keep roster consistency. Finally, if he's successful, it's likely his last stop.

In addition, he was highly successful (62-6) in the JUCO ranks and has recruited at major programs like TAMU, Tennessee, and Wichita State. I don't think he's a Marquette fit because it feels an awful lot like dropping bags and securing the kind of commits the program has moved away from, but strictly from a basketball perspective, it's a really nice hire.

And when you compare him head to head with some of the other finalists for the job, it was clear Forbes was the best option.