Asian Americans

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

the officer was quoting what the killer said to investigators, he was not giving his opinion or trying to downplay the severity of the situation. Here's the whole video with proper context:

https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1372472820454862853

In context it actually looks worse IMO.

[dgies9156]

At the risk of getting my head in a vice, the Atlanta situation is simple:

1) A man committed mass murder.

2) He was arrested.

3) In Georgia, a conviction for mass murder requires a life sentence or the death penalty. Personally, I hope it is a life sentence in solitary.

We can try to examine the cause of it all we want. But the reality is that the overwhelming majority of Americans are not mass murderers. What can be read into the situation is that we need better mental health treatment to try to get folks like the alleged mass murderer off the street and into treatment BEFORE IT HAPPENS.

[shoothoops]

At the risk of getting my head in a vice, the Atlanta situation is simple:

1) A man committed mass murder.

2) He was arrested.

3) In Georgia, a conviction for mass murder requires a life sentence or the death penalty. Personally, I hope it is a life sentence in solitary.

We can try to examine the cause of it all we want. But the reality is that the overwhelming majority of Americans are not mass murderers. What can be read into the situation is that we need better mental health treatment to try to get folks like the alleged mass murderer off the street and into treatment BEFORE IT HAPPENS.

1) This is a thread about incidents against Asian Americans.

2) I couldn't agree more about the need for more and better mental health treatment. We sadly still live in a society where far too many people don't equate mental health with physical health and emotional health, with many uninformed archaic social stigmas.

However, it helps to know and understand basic facts about mental illness and violence. For example, the percentage of people that are mentally ill that commit acts of violence are a teeny tiny miniscule percentage. People with mental illness are 10 times more likely to be victims of mental illness than than the general population.

Other factors contribute to violence such as previous exposure to violence and weapons, substance abuse, social stress other previous environmental factors etc...

3) This particular mass murderer purchased his weapon the same day he did the shootings, just a few hours prior.

[tower912]

I don't know that he hated Asians.  It says that he had been treated for sex addiction.   Somewhere in his mind, I think he was ashamed of his weakness and equated the Asian women with temptation.

[Hards Alumni]

At the risk of getting my head in a vice, the Atlanta situation is simple:

1) A man committed mass murder.

2) He was arrested.

3) In Georgia, a conviction for mass murder requires a life sentence or the death penalty. Personally, I hope it is a life sentence in solitary.

We can try to examine the cause of it all we want. But the reality is that the overwhelming majority of Americans are not mass murderers. What can be read into the situation is that we need better mental health treatment to try to get folks like the alleged mass murderer off the street and into treatment BEFORE IT HAPPENS.

1) Another white man commits mass murder

2) Arrested, not exterminated by white cops because he is also white.

3) Life sentence in solitary is cruel and unusual punishment.  The death penalty is archaic and should be illegal.  No human should be locked away without the possibility of rehabilitation. 

Does 'better mental health treatment' mean that white people have to come to terms with the systemically racist society they've created?  How do you treat such a thing?  People bleat this idea every time a mass shooting happens as a way to explain it away without actually changing anything fundamentally.

You know what would have stopped this from being a mass shooting?  Mandatory background checks, lock requirements on guns that aren't in use, a national gun registry, and culpability of gun owners for crimes committed using their gun. 

[shoothoops]

I don't know that he hated Asians.  It says that he had been treated for sex addiction.   Somewhere in his mind, I think he was ashamed of his weakness and equated the Asian women with temptation.

A Korean newspaper reported that he wanted to kill all Asians.

Let's take your sex addiction comment for example. He blamed Asian Women for his sex addiction. And he went out and targeted and killed Asian Women as opposed to other Women. He did this at three locations (had planned for more in an additional state) even though there was ample opportunity to kill many other people in that 45 minute radius because of his sex addiction. For example, why not kill those at the strip clubs and other adult places on his route?

Here is what several experts had to say about it, worth your time:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/racism-sexism-must-be-considered-atlanta-case-involving-killing-six-n1261347

[dgies9156]

Gang, I'm no great fan of guns. I don't own one. Never have. Never will. If we banned handguns, as an extreme measure, this middle of the road conservative would weep not.

That said, the problem with regulating guns is threefold. First, the Supreme Court will strike down anything that's more than minimal. It isn't this court or the last one. Or the one before that. Going back to the Warren Court, SCOTUS has taken a relatively tough stance on harsh gun control. For heaven's sake, in my lifetime, we had one President murdered, a second nearly killed and third shot at twice in about a month. After each incident, there was calls -- even by Republicans -- for much stricter laws. They never passed. The expectation is SCOTUS would strike it down.

Secondly, while I am extremely supportive of much tighter gun laws, there is a fundamental difference between how a gun is used in an urban environment and how it's used in rural locations. I have a close friend who lives in suburban Fairbanks. He goes outside, as does his wife, armed with a pistol. He's not worried about crime. Rather, he's worried about a friendly neighborhood moose or bear wandering on the property and deciding he or his wife would make an excellent dinner -- or in the case of the moose, a mating partner. The pistol is a tool, much like a shovel or a rake. I have other friends who own rifles legally who hunt. They have been trained in the proper use of their weapons and lock them up when not in use. The laws that you pass that limit gun ownership apply equally to a person whose goal is urban terror or a person whose goal is bear protection.

Thirdly, where I agree with most gun control advocates is getting automatic weapons out of the hands of civilians. I see no need for any private citizen to own an automatic weapon.

Ultimately, you want to get serious about guns, you lock up anyone with mandatory sentences who commits crimes (beginning with illegal possession) with handguns.

[naginiF]

I don't know that he hated Asians.  It says that he had been treated for sex addiction.   Somewhere in his mind, I think he was ashamed of his weakness and equated the Asian women with temptation.

But if he was an alcoholic, been to rehab, blamed Black bartenders for his temptation and drove to locations where he knew only Black bartenders worked it would still be blatant hate crimes against Black people.

Why he chose Asians doesn't matter, he targeted one race.

[Billy Hoyle]

Doesn't matter. He should have said "we caught a mass murderer and he will be prosecuted fully" Full stop. We all have bad days. We are almost 100% NOT mass murderers. It was one on the most incredibly stupid and insensitive comments I have ever heard. He comment showed more sympathy for the murderer than he showed for the victims.

Selling racist tee-shirts doesn't help the officer's image either.

That's your opinion. He was being asked about the motive and was answering the questions from the reporters. He said what the investigators specifically said the killer told them. But, we're not allowed to actually dig into context, we just go with snippets of what someone said and form our own interpretation that can advance a narrative. I fail to see how "this is what the guy told the investigators" was designed to have sympathy for the killer.

I guess I need to put pragmatism aside and remember that in 2021, intent and context do not matter anymore, especially with a publication like Vox.

In context it actually looks worse IMO.

you must have chosen to only watch the 20 second clip. https://youtu.be/tHVIlPKpHQU

[shoothoops]

Gang, I'm no great fan of guns. I don't own one. Never have. Never will. If we banned handguns, as an extreme measure, this middle of the road conservative would weep not.

That said, the problem with regulating guns is threefold. First, the Supreme Court will strike down anything that's more than minimal. It isn't this court or the last one. Or the one before that. Going back to the Warren Court, SCOTUS has taken a relatively tough stance on harsh gun control. For heaven's sake, in my lifetime, we had one President murdered, a second nearly killed and third shot at twice in about a month. After each incident, there was calls -- even by Republicans -- for much stricter laws. They never passed. The expectation is SCOTUS would strike it down.

Secondly, while I am extremely supportive of much tighter gun laws, there is a fundamental difference between how a gun is used in an urban environment and how it's used in rural locations. I have a close friend who lives in suburban Fairbanks. He goes outside, as does his wife, armed with a pistol. He's not worried about crime. Rather, he's worried about a friendly neighborhood moose or bear wandering on the property and deciding he or his wife would make an excellent dinner -- or in the case of the moose, a mating partner. The pistol is a tool, much like a shovel or a rake. I have other friends who own rifles legally who hunt. They have been trained in the proper use of their weapons and lock them up when not in use. The laws that you pass that limit gun ownership apply equally to a person whose goal is urban terror or a person whose goal is bear protection.

Thirdly, where I agree with most gun control advocates is getting automatic weapons out of the hands of civilians. I see no need for any private citizen to own an automatic weapon.

Ultimately, you want to get serious about guns, you lock up anyone with mandatory sentences who commits crimes (beginning with illegal possession) with handguns.

Do you have anything to add about Asian Americans? Two posts so far and not a single word.

[shoothoops]

That's your opinion. He was being asked about the motive, he said what the investigators said the killer told them. But, we're not allowed to actually dig into context, we just go with snippets of what someone said and form our own interpretation that can advance a narrative.

I guess I need to put pragmatism aside and remember that in 2021, intent and context do not matter anymore.

As Fluffy said, it looks worse in context.

[dgies9156]

Do you have anything to add about Asian Americans? Two posts so far and not a single word.

Shoot, I don’t see this as an Asian American thing. They were victims of someone who obviously had mental health issues.

I also see it as a gun control issue.

It is regrettable the things said about Asian-Americans but Asians are the victims less of their ethnicity and more of someone’s mental health issues. I know that is of little comfort to the Asian community, and all lives matter, but it is how I feel.

[naginiF]

Shoot, I don’t see this as an Asian American thing. They were victims of someone who obviously had mental health issues.

I also see it as a gun control issue.

It is regrettable the things said about Asian-Americans but Asians are the victims less of their ethnicity and more of someone’s mental health issues. I know that is of little comfort to the Asian community, and all lives matter, but it is how I feel.

Anybody who shoots multiple people/kills people while storming the US Capital trying to overturn an election/hunts down people of a specific race/etc. has mental health issues. The underlying racism/hate cannot be ignored and ignoring the fact that flaming racism drives those with mental health issues towards violence and not towards help is at the heart of the "regrettable things said about Asian-Americans".

There is a reason some of those with a platform say those "regrettable" (your words, I use hateful and ignorant) words and it is that they are expecting this exact outcome.......someone who is  struggling will go over the tipping point.

Yes, absolutely provide a safety net for anyone dealing with mental health issues. But also, shine a bright light on the racism and bigotry involved in executing and enabling these acts, to drive it back into the shadows.

[shoothoops]

Shoot, I don’t see this as an Asian American thing. They were victims of someone who obviously had mental health issues.

I also see it as a gun control issue.

It is regrettable the things said about Asian-Americans but Asians are the victims less of their ethnicity and more of someone’s mental health issues. I know that is of little comfort to the Asian community, and all lives matter, but it is how I feel.

Hate crimes were down this past year, except against Asian Americans, which were up over 150%. Over 4,000 reported incidents, and many others have gone unreported. Were none of them targeted because of their race?

In Atlanta, if they weren't targeted because of their ethnicity, why did witnesses say the shooter said they were? If they weren't targeted because of their race why choose only Asian American Women? Why travel 45 minutes to 3 places, planning more before stopped, and only choose Asian American victims if they weren't targeted because of their race? Why pass up the opportunity to kill many other people along the way who weren't Asian?

[jesmu84]

Shoot, I don’t see this as an Asian American thing. They were victims of someone who obviously had mental health issues.

I also see it as a gun control issue.

It is regrettable the things said about Asian-Americans but Asians are the victims less of their ethnicity and more of someone’s mental health issues. I know that is of little comfort to the Asian community, and all lives matter, but it is how I feel.

Uh...this was definitely a targeted hate crime.

[Mutaman]

When I have a really bad day I eat too much pizza and binge watch Peaky Blinders.

[warriorchick]

Uh...this was definitely a targeted hate crime.

6 of the 8 victims were Asian. But 7 of the 8 victims were women. Are you sure that it wasn't a hate crime against women? Honest question. The murderer had been treated for sex addiction, and of course, it's always the woman's fault that a man can't resist her.

He targeted spas that offered, to put it delicately, more than backrubs. Were there any of that type of spa in that general area that did not have primarily Asian employees?

Hate crimes of any kind are terrible. It is shameful that they have increased against Asians. I am just not sure that calling this particular incident a hate crime against Asians is accurate.

[shoothoops]

6 of the 8 victims were Asian. But 7 of the 8 victims were women. Are you sure that it wasn't a hate crime against women? Honest question. The murderer had been treated for sex addiction, and of course, it's always the woman's fault that a man can't resist her.

He targeted spas that offered, to put it delicately, more than backrubs. Were there any of that type of spa in that general area that did not have primarily Asian employees?

Hate crimes of any kind are terrible. It is shameful that they have increased against Asians. I am just not sure that calling this particular incident a hate crime against Asians is accurate.

Why can't it be both? He didn't blame Women for his problems. He blamed Asian Women. He didn't target just Women in his 45 minute geographic radius. He specifically targeted Asian Women. He had lots of opportunity to target other Women. He traveled 45 minutes to do so. He was literally on his way to Florida to specifically target others too. Strip clubs along the way? Nope. Adult video stores? Nope. Adult movie theaters? Nope. Non Asian owned spas? Nope. Just Asian owned businesses with predominantly Asian employees.

The fact he sees Asian Women as temptation for his sexual addiction, is....racial motivation.

[Pakuni]

6 of the 8 victims were Asian. But 7 of the 8 victims were women. Are you sure that it wasn't a hate crime against women? Honest question. The murderer had been treated for sex addiction, and of course, it's always the woman's fault that a man can't resist her.

He targeted spas that offered, to put it delicately, more than backrubs. Were there any of that type of spa in that general area that did not have primarily Asian employees?

Hate crimes of any kind are terrible. It is shameful that they have increased against Asians. I am just not sure that calling this particular incident a hate crime against Asians is accurate.

You're not entirely wrong, but there are plenty of adult entertainment venues in the greater Atlanta area. The fact he chose only Asian massage parlors and admitted that at the time of his capture he was on his way to Florida to attack more Asian massage parlors isn't a coincidence.   

[Ron Swanson]

I have two colleagues (Math Professors) that came to the states from China in the early 2000's.  Both of them on separate occasions told me that they absolutely believe the Chinese government released the COVID virus. The stories they tell about the Chinese government are mind blowing.  China demonizes itself by its' behavior.  Pointing out the behavior is not demonizing it. Now I don't know what is true or not about this pandemic and I'll admit this is just an anecdote, but what I do know is these same people are fearful for their families safety. To attack Asians because of a pandemic they had no control over is absurd.  Anyone who attacks an Asian because of COVID should be charged with a hate crime.

[Jockey]

I have two colleagues (Math Professors) that came to the states from China in the early 2000's.  Both of them on separate occasions told me that they absolutely believe the Chinese government released the COVID virus. The stories they tell about the Chinese government are mind blowing.  China demonizes itself by its' behavior.  Pointing out the behavior is not demonizing it. Now I don't know what is true or not about his pandemic and I'll admit this is just an anecdote, but what I do know is these same people are fearful for their families safety. To attack Asians because of a pandemic they had no control over is absurd.  Anyone who attacks an Asian because of COVID should be charged with a hate crime.

I'm sure these guys have a bone to pick with the Chinese gov't, but that doesn't mean they are wrong. What they say could be true - we just don't know yet.

[Ron Swanson]

I'm sure these guys have a bone to pick with the Chinese gov't, but that doesn't mean they are wrong. What they say could be true - we just don't know yet.

Don't be sexist, one is a female

[JWags85]

I have two colleagues (Math Professors) that came to the states from China in the early 2000's.  Both of them on separate occasions told me that they absolutely believe the Chinese government released the COVID virus. The stories they tell about the Chinese government are mind blowing.  China demonizes itself by its' behavior.  Pointing out the behavior is not demonizing it. Now I don't know what is true or not about his pandemic and I'll admit this is just an anecdote, but what I do know is these same people are fearful for their families safety. To attack Asians because of a pandemic they had no control over is absurd.  Anyone who attacks an Asian because of COVID should be charged with a hate crime.

That’s the complexity and duality of all of this.  There are myriad reasons to be disgusted by, hateful towards, and suspicious of the CCP and their actions. I too have colleagues who left/escaped China, and plenty that are still there, and some of it is eye opening and shocking to say the least.  However, to direct that towards anyone here is disgusting and absurd.  Especially since the many left China for the same reasons and negativity that people here have towards that regime.  To act like there is culpability for any Chinese citizen, much less immigrants, for the actions of a totalitarian state is preposterous.  And that’s not even including the actions towards people of other Asian backgrounds.

I hate the CCP, HATE HATE HATE what they are doing in that country.  They’ve ruined and continue to destroy HK, one of my favorite places in the world.  Their human rights record is ghastly.  Hate what it takes to do business there in many cases.  However, I have friends who are Chinese nationals, Chinese employees in Shenzhen (a few who are vocal supporters of the government even), a friend/customer in Shanghai whose wife is well connected in the government and has insane wealth that is no small part connected to that.  And we have an office there and have a large and growing part of our business dependent on the consumers in that country.  It’s just not black and white.  Beyond the flat out racism against an ethnicity, holding hundreds of millions of people accountable and in hate for the actions of a select elite is incredibly small brained.

[MU82]

Racist anti-Asian hashtags spiked after Trump first tweeted ‘Chinese virus,’ study finds

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/19/trump-tweets-chinese-virus-racist/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F30f51c6%2F6054ccb39d2fda4c8812bf47%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F57%2F70%2F6054ccb39d2fda4c8812bf47


As the coronavirus spread across the globe last February, the World Health Organization urged people to avoid terms like the “Wuhan virus” or the “Chinese virus,” fearing it could spike a backlash against Asians.

President Donald Trump didn’t take the advice. On March 16, 2020, he first tweeted the phrase “Chinese virus.”

That single tweet, researchers later found, fueled exactly the kind of backlash the WHO had feared: It was followed by an avalanche of tweets using the hashtag #chinesevirus, among other anti-Asian phrases.

“The week before Trump’s tweet the dominant term [on Twitter] was #covid-19,” Yulin Hswen, an epidemiology professor at the University of California at San Francisco and a co-author of the study, told The Washington Post. “The week after his tweet, it was #chinesevirus.”

Not only did more people use the #chinesevirus hashtag days after Trump’s tweet, but those who did were more likely to include other anti-Asian hashtags in their tweets, according to the peer-reviewed study published by the American Journal of Public Health on Thursday.

The group’s findings come amid a wave of racist attacks and threats against Asian Americans, which some advocates have blamed on Trump’s anti-China rhetoric over the pandemic. Trump repeatedly referred to the disease as the “Chinese virus” and the “Kung flu” during White House briefings, campaign rallies and other public appearances.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Why can't it be both? He didn't blame Women for his problems. He blamed Asian Women. He didn't target just Women in his 45 minute geographic radius. He specifically targeted Asian Women. He had lots of opportunity to target other Women. He traveled 45 minutes to do so. He was literally on his way to Florida to specifically target others too. Strip clubs along the way? Nope. Adult video stores? Nope. Adult movie theaters? Nope. Non Asian owned spas? Nope. Just Asian owned businesses with predominantly Asian employees.

The fact he sees Asian Women as temptation for his sexual addiction, is....racial motivation.

   I believe you are wrong. They were the majority of employees of places he had previously visited. There is no evidence he had any other intentions but to shoot up the place. one of his victims was a Latino male.So it seems more like a crime of opportunity.  How do you know his intensions of looking only for Asian spas.  I'm no expert but perhaps you could explain the difference between asian and non-asian spas for us.