MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: shoothoops on March 16, 2021, 09:43:06 PM
-
3,795 reported hate incidents this past year, all 50 states.
https://a1w.90d.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/210312-Stop-AAPI-Hate-National-Report-.pdf
8 people dead today in Atlanta shooting spree.
https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-multiple-shootings-shut-down-busy-woodstock-highway/OLE23RVIO5BE3ELWBZAA6GVSSA/
-
nm
-
#ALM
-
Thoughts and prayers.
-
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Black-attacks-on-Asians-racism-or-opportunity-3265893.php
Just saying. Violence is violence.
-
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Black-attacks-on-Asians-racism-or-opportunity-3265893.php
Just saying. Violence is violence.
You do know that the shooter in Atlanta was a white, gun-loving, religious zealot, right?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/seven-killed-in-shootings-at-atlanta-spas?ref=home
-
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Black-attacks-on-Asians-racism-or-opportunity-3265893.php
Just saying. Violence is violence.
Thank goodness
-
You do know that the shooter in Atlanta was a white, gun-loving, religious zealot, right?
https://www.thedailybeast.com/seven-killed-in-shootings-at-atlanta-spas?ref=home
...and what is your point; that whites are the only evil people that attack asians since we're just talking about violence against asians. What is so important about the color of ones skin when it comes to violence? I just don't get it; we all bleed red.
-
Are ethnic groups targeted because of their ethnicity?
-
...and what is your point; that whites are the only evil people that attack asians since we're just talking about violence against asians. What is so important about the color of ones skin when it comes to violence? I just don't get it; we all bleed red.
You were the one to introduce the race of those committing the violence. Now you want to be ignorant about race?
-
...and what is your point; that whites are the only evil people that attack asians since we're just talking about violence against asians. What is so important about the color of ones skin when it comes to violence? I just don't get it; we all bleed red.
Friend, your response to this horrible, racist attack was to post an article about Blacks attacking Asian-Americans. That was YOUR response, nobody else's. YOU were the one who introduced race.
I just wanted to make sure that somebody offered the actual facts of this case.
Do you get it now?
-
Friend, your response to this horrible, racist attack was to post an article about Blacks attacking Asian-Americans. That was YOUR response, nobody else's. YOU were the one who introduced race.
I just wanted to make sure that somebody offered the actual facts of this case.
Do you get it now?
The guy just gets so triggered anytime someone brings up race.
-
Friend, your response to this horrible, racist attack was to post an article about Blacks attacking Asian-Americans. That was YOUR response, nobody else's. YOU were the one who introduced race.
I just wanted to make sure that somebody offered the actual facts of this case.
Do you get it now?
*An article from 11 years ago 🙄
-
Friend, your response to this horrible, racist attack was to post an article about Blacks attacking Asian-Americans. That was YOUR response, nobody else's. YOU were the one who introduced race.
I just wanted to make sure that somebody offered the actual facts of this case.
Do you get it now?
You were the one to introduce the race of those committing the violence. Now you want to be ignorant about race?
Really? I did not link the article in the OP. I agree it was horrible and racist, but non-whites also commit horrible racist violent acts against asians. I did not see in the report that the incidents listed were solely perpetrated by whites, yet the OP show a link of a white perpetrator so who is bringing up race? You really think the asian victim cares about the perpetrators skin color? In before the lock.
-
Really? I did not link the article in the OP. I agree it was horrible and racist, but non-whites also commit horrible racist violent acts against asians.
No sh*t. No one claimed otherwise. The OP simply stated that there have been racist attacks against Asian Americans and your response was "WELL BLACKS DO IT TOO!!!" (With an article from a decade ago.)
I did not see in the report that the incidents listed were solely perpetrated by whites, yet the OP show a link of a white perpetrator so who is bringing up race? You really think the asian victim cares about the perpetrators skin color? In before the lock.
The first link he posted made no reference to the race of the perpetrators.
The second link is a news story about a horrific act of violence. Yes the perp was white, a fact not brought up in the story at all, but they have a picture of him. And again, because of that you had to bring up black on Asian violence....because????
-
Really? I did not link the article in the OP. I agree it was horrible and racist, but non-whites also commit horrible racist violent acts against asians. I did not see in the report that the incidents listed were solely perpetrated by whites, yet the OP show a link of a white perpetrator so who is bringing up race? You really think the asian victim cares about the perpetrators skin color? In before the lock.
This is white fragility.
-
I am the original poster. The first link and comment show specifics of a study about hate incidents (it describes specifics in the piece) against Asian Americans that have risen exponentially in the past 12 months. There are many more incidents that have gone unreported.
The 2nd link is about a shooting spree last night that left 8 people dead, including six Asian Women.
It's okay to have sympathy, empathy and take action. It's not okay to attack people literally or figuratively because of their race or ethnicity. Ignoring it is not okay, not good enough. It isn't something that to be normalized, ever. This particular post is about what has been going on with Asian Americans this past year in particular.
-
Really? I did not link the article in the OP. I agree it was horrible and racist, but non-whites also commit horrible racist violent acts against asians. I did not see in the report that the incidents listed were solely perpetrated by whites, yet the OP show a link of a white perpetrator so who is bringing up race? You really think the asian victim cares about the perpetrators skin color? In before the lock.
Wow. If only white males could EVER catch a break in this country. Downtrodden for 400 years now.
Oh, and maybe if the deposed president hadn't spent most of his term demonizing China and most of 2020 calling the virus "Kung Flu," violent crime against Asian-Americans wouldn't be soaring.
-
Oh, and maybe if the deposed president hadn't spent most of his term demonizing China and most of 2020 calling the virus "Kung Flu," violent crime against Asian-Americans wouldn't be soaring.
So this is interesting. This isn’t meant to be “it’s not just white people!!!” but in reality, there has been a spike in the Bay Area on random acts of violence against Asian Americans. Most of the notable cases have been perpetrated by African Americans. Predominantly no fan of the former President for good reason. But it would be kind of fascinating (obviously in a terrible way) if his demonization of China spurred them to this sort of animosity and violence, despite their hatred of him, if that makes sense. We obviously associate that sort of motivation action to devoted followers, but if it was earworming and taking effect in even those opposed to him, some awful “common enemy” mindset, that would be even more insidious and ugly.
-
So this is interesting. This isn’t meant to be “it’s not just white people!!!” but in reality, there has been a spike in the Bay Area on random acts of violence against Asian Americans. Most of the notable cases have been perpetrated by African Americans. Predominantly no fan of the former President for good reason. But it would be kind of fascinating (obviously in a terrible way) if his demonization of China spurred them to this sort of animosity and violence, despite their hatred of him, if that makes sense. We obviously associate that sort of motivation action to devoted followers, but if it was earworming and taking effect in even those opposed to him, some awful “common enemy” mindset, that would be even more insidious and ugly.
Agree with all of this, though it would be difficult to determine. I did just read this:
Name-calling, shunning and assault were among the nearly 3,800 hate incidents reported against Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders nationwide over the last year, according to Stop AAPI Hate.
Stop AAPI Hate was formed in March of last year to prevent discrimination during the coronavirus pandemic. The group collects data on hate and harassment incidents against Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders in the United States.
In a report released on Tuesday, the group said it had received reports of 3,292 incidents between March 1 and to Feb. 28. But it said the number could be higher because not all incidents are reported.
The report was released the same day that eight people, six of them Asian, were fatally shot at three Atlanta-area massage parlors. Stop AAPI Hate called the shootings “an unspeakable tragedy” for the victims’ families and an Asian-American community that has “been reeling from high levels of racist attacks.”
It said the shootings “will only exacerbate the fear and pain that the Asian-American community continues to endure.”
The incidents compiled by AAPI Hate included mostly verbal harassment and name-calling, or about 68 percent of those reported, while shunning, or the deliberate avoidance of Asian-Americans, composed about 20 percent. About 11 percent of the reports involved physical assault, the report said.
Activists and elected officials say attacks were fueled early in the pandemic by former President Donald J. Trump, who frequently used racist language to refer to the coronavirus.
Stop AAPI Hate said in its report that some of the people who reported hate incidents said they were spat at or coughed on. One person, a Pacific Islander, reported that while speaking Chamorro at a Dallas mall a woman coughed and said, “You and your people are the reason why we have corona.” She then said, “Go sail a boat back to your island,” according to the group.
Chinese people composed the largest ethnic group (42.2 percent) that reported experiencing hate events, followed by Koreans, Vietnamese and Filipinos.
Most of the incidents took place against women, in businesses and on public sidewalks or streets, the report said. But the events included civil rights violations such as workplace discrimination or refusal of service and online harassment.
-
White privilege is when you murder eight innocent people and law enforcement says you "had a really bad day."
https://www.ajc.com/news/exclusive-spa-shooting-suspect-bought-gun-hours-before-deadly-spree/FEURWVYBEFBMJP7GLOQ6AQJ27A/
-
Sex addiction as justification.
-
Sex addiction as justification.
Almost as good as the high school basketball announcer in Oklahoma last week who used diabetes as an excuse for him referring to players on the opposing team as "f----- n-----."
-
Early indications are that this is more a case of religiously-oppressed-incel-murders-those-that-tempt-him than racially motivated. Could be both I suppose.
-
Are ethnic groups targeted because of their ethnicity?
Some are, some aren't.
My wife is Filipina and has been physically attacked twice, each time by an African-American. One wanted her backpack, the other was just punching random women. I could go Dr. Kendi and claim she was targeted because of white supremacy (the excused being used for the killing of the elderly Filipino man in Oakland), and her ethnicity or I could see it for what it was: random violence.
But yes, plenty are targeted because of their ethnicity, but it's magnified when the perpetrator is of a certain race.
-
Friend, your response to this horrible, racist attack was to post an article about Blacks attacking Asian-Americans. That was YOUR response, nobody else's. YOU were the one who introduced race.
I just wanted to make sure that somebody offered the actual facts of this case.
Do you get it now?
Someone has to beat rocket brain to that point. ::)
-
Anybody, black or white, who somehow blames Asian-Americans for what the Chinese Communist Party did in either recklessly or intentionally spreading COVID-19 throughout the world is a complete moron.
-
Anybody, black or white, who somehow blames Asian-Americans for what the Chinese Communist Party did in either recklessly or intentionally spreading COVID-19 throughout the world is a complete moron.
You're so close.
-
White privilege is when you murder eight innocent people and law enforcement says you "had a really bad day."
https://www.ajc.com/news/exclusive-spa-shooting-suspect-bought-gun-hours-before-deadly-spree/FEURWVYBEFBMJP7GLOQ6AQJ27A/
So, about that police officer that said the suspect in the 8 person murder was "Having a bad day," ...well...
"The Cop Who Said The Spa Shooter Had A "Bad Day" Previously Posted A Racist Shirt Blaming China For The Pandemic."
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/skbaer/spa-shooter-bad-day-racist-facebook?__twitter_impression=true
https://www.thedailybeast.com/georgia-sheriff-spokesman-jay-baker-posted-racist-covid-shirts-on-facebook
-
dupe
-
So, about that police officer that said the suspect in the 8 person murder was "Having a bad day," ...well...
"The Cop Who Said The Spa Shooter Had A "Bad Day" Previously Posted A Racist Shirt Blaming China For The Pandemic."
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/skbaer/spa-shooter-bad-day-racist-facebook?__twitter_impression=true
https://www.thedailybeast.com/georgia-sheriff-spokesman-jay-baker-posted-racist-covid-shirts-on-facebook
Cop just had a bad day himself.
-
Anybody, black or white, who somehow blames Asian-Americans for what the Chinese Communist Party did in either recklessly or intentionally spreading COVID-19 throughout the world is a complete moron.
Kung Flu!
-
Early indications are that this is more a case of religiously-oppressed-incel-murders-those-that-tempt-him than racially motivated. Could be both I suppose.
What religion was that?
-
Cop just had a bad day himself.
The mass murderer was white. How bad could he be?
We should be talking about all of the evil people walking around wearing hoodies.
-
Speaking of Asian Americans, a Texas Man was arrested outside of VP Kamala Harris' Naval Observatory Residence yesterday. (It's undergoing renovations, so they are staying temporarily at Blair House)
The Man was in possession of an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, 113 rounds of unregistered ammunition, and five 30 round magazines, according to a DC Police Report.
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1372354134867861504?s=19
-
Speaking of Asian Americans, a Texas Man was arrested outside of VP Kamala Harris' Naval Observatory Residence yesterday. (It's undergoing renovations, so they are staying temporarily at Blair House)
The Man was in possession of an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, 113 rounds of unregistered ammunition, and five 30 round magazines, according to a DC Police Report.
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1372354134867861504?s=19
While it is messed up, I doubt that VP Harris was targeted because of her Asian ancestry.
-
As of right now Foxnews.com doesn't have this story anywhere on it's home page. The lead story is about the evils of critical race theory.
Almost like they are purposely feeding their audience fear and reasons to discount racist attacks and domestic violence.
-
While it is messed up, I doubt that VP Harris was targeted because of her Asian ancestry.
I stated a fact that happened yesterday. This is a thread about Asian Americans and the increased incidents against them this past year.
For example, an additional fact is that this same Texas Man reported in Oct 2020 that he was drugged and poisoned on a recent trip to Japan.
What we do know is this man was arrested outside of her VP residence yesterday with an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle with 113 rounds of ammunition and five 30 round magazines.
.....................
It's also been reported by a leading Korean newspaper (that has local reporters on the scene, in Atlanta) that the Atlanta shooter told witnesses that he wanted to kill all Asians. That may or may not be the case. What we do know is that the Atlanta shooter blamed Asian Americans for his problems, and, he specifically went out and killed several Asian Americans in multiple locations, 45 minutes apart, seeking additional locations to visit in another state.
-
I stated a fact that happened yesterday. This is a thread about Asian Americans and the increased incidents against them this past year.
For example, an additional fact is that this same Texas Man reported in Oct 2020 that he was drugged and poisoned on a recent trip to Japan.
What we do know is this man was arrested outside of her VP residence yesterday with an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle with 113 rounds of ammunition and five 30 round magazines.
.....................
It's also been reported by a leading Korean newspaper (that has local reporters on the scene, in Atlanta) that the Atlanta shooter told witnesses that he wanted to kill all Asians. That may or may not be the case. What we do know is that the Atlanta shooter blamed Asian Americans for his problems, and, he specifically went out and killed several Asian Americans in multiple locations, 45 minutes apart, seeking additional locations to visit in another state.
I was implying that you're drawing a line to join the two that doesn't exist. She was targeted because she was VP. I'd lay cash that the guy that menaced her doesn't even know she is half Asian.
-
I was implying that you're drawing a line to join the two that doesn't exist. She was targeted because she was VP. I'd lay cash that the guy that menaced her doesn't even know she is half Asian.
No, you did that. I merely stated a fact. (Multiple actually) You are the only one here definitively concluding motives without all of the facts.
What I have done is initiate a thread about the over 4,000 reported incidents against Asian Americans over the past year.
-
No, you did that. I merely stated a fact. (Multiple actually) You are the only one here definitively concluding motives without all of the facts.
What I have done is initiate a thread about the over 4,000 reported incidents against Asian Americans over the past year.
I'm not definitively concluding anything. I chose my words carefully.
Why would you bring up a potential attack on the VP of the US in the Asian Americans thread if you're not trying to tie the two together?
-
I'm not definitively concluding anything. I chose my words carefully.
Why would you bring up a potential attack on the VP of the US in the Asian Americans thread if you're not trying to tie the two together?
You are doing the same thing again.
This is a thread about Asian Americans, and the incidents towards them. She's Asian American. A man with massive amounts of weapon ammunition was arrested outside of her home.
Those are facts. Those facts fall within the thread title and topic. I wasn't interested in starting a new thread about Japan drug poisoning or threats to the VP of the United States.
-
You are doing the same thing again.
This is a thread about Asian Americans, and the incidents towards them. She's Asian American. A man with massive amounts of weapon ammunition was arrested outside of her home.
Those are facts. Those facts fall within the thread title and topic. I wasn't interested in starting a new thread about Japan drug poisoning or threats to the VP of the United States.
Oh, no, I get what you're saying. So any news story from here on out that contains anyone of Asian descent goes here. Got it.
-
Oh, no, I get what you're saying. So any news story from here on out that contains anyone of Asian descent goes here. Got it.
At least you are extremely consistent.
Any news story? See, that is something you inserted there on your own, just as you have a few other times now.
Incidents towards/against? Yes.
-
While it is messed up, I doubt that VP Harris was targeted because of her Asian ancestry.
The guy had to choose whether he hated her more for being Asian or for being black.
Lotta tough decisions for trump's people.
-
As of right now Foxnews.com doesn't have this story anywhere on it's home page. The lead story is about the evils of critical race theory.
Almost like they are purposely feeding their audience fear and reasons to discount racist attacks and domestic violence.
Almost???
-
Cop just had a bad day himself.
the officer was quoting what the killer said to investigators, he was not giving his opinion or trying to downplay the severity of the situation. Here's the whole video with proper context:
https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1372472820454862853
-
Almost???
Lest we forget who the real victims are.
-
the officer was quoting what the killer said to investigators, he was not giving his opinion or trying to downplay the severity of the situation. Here's the whole video with proper context:
https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1372472820454862853
Doesn't matter. He should have said "we caught a mass murderer and he will be prosecuted fully" Full stop. We all have bad days. We are almost 100% NOT mass murderers. It was one on the most incredibly stupid and insensitive comments I have ever heard. He comment showed more sympathy for the murderer than he showed for the victims.
Selling racist tee-shirts doesn't help the officer's image either.
-
Jay Baker’s comments were widely criticized as inappropriate and insensitive to the victims. All he had to do was say something before or after relaying something said by the shooter, or not mention it at all. To mention it without saying before or after that this is simply what the shooter said, and this or that is yet to be determined is part of the problem he created for himself.
He said nothing either way about the Korean newspaper reports that the shooter “Wanted to kill all Asians.” He said nothing about how the shooter blamed a race for his problems and then set out to kill several members of that race over a 45 minute distance. He said nothing about how the shooter avoided many other opportunities in that 45 minute geography. He has also yet to address his own racist comments and actions that he has since deleted on social media.
-
the officer was quoting what the killer said to investigators, he was not giving his opinion or trying to downplay the severity of the situation. Here's the whole video with proper context:
https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1372472820454862853
In context it actually looks worse IMO.
-
At the risk of getting my head in a vice, the Atlanta situation is simple:
1) A man committed mass murder.
2) He was arrested.
3) In Georgia, a conviction for mass murder requires a life sentence or the death penalty. Personally, I hope it is a life sentence in solitary.
We can try to examine the cause of it all we want. But the reality is that the overwhelming majority of Americans are not mass murderers. What can be read into the situation is that we need better mental health treatment to try to get folks like the alleged mass murderer off the street and into treatment BEFORE IT HAPPENS.
-
At the risk of getting my head in a vice, the Atlanta situation is simple:
1) A man committed mass murder.
2) He was arrested.
3) In Georgia, a conviction for mass murder requires a life sentence or the death penalty. Personally, I hope it is a life sentence in solitary.
We can try to examine the cause of it all we want. But the reality is that the overwhelming majority of Americans are not mass murderers. What can be read into the situation is that we need better mental health treatment to try to get folks like the alleged mass murderer off the street and into treatment BEFORE IT HAPPENS.
1) This is a thread about incidents against Asian Americans.
2) I couldn't agree more about the need for more and better mental health treatment. We sadly still live in a society where far too many people don't equate mental health with physical health and emotional health, with many uninformed archaic social stigmas.
However, it helps to know and understand basic facts about mental illness and violence. For example, the percentage of people that are mentally ill that commit acts of violence are a teeny tiny miniscule percentage. People with mental illness are 10 times more likely to be victims of mental illness than than the general population.
Other factors contribute to violence such as previous exposure to violence and weapons, substance abuse, social stress other previous environmental factors etc...
3) This particular mass murderer purchased his weapon the same day he did the shootings, just a few hours prior.
-
I don't know that he hated Asians. It says that he had been treated for sex addiction. Somewhere in his mind, I think he was ashamed of his weakness and equated the Asian women with temptation.
-
At the risk of getting my head in a vice, the Atlanta situation is simple:
1) A man committed mass murder.
2) He was arrested.
3) In Georgia, a conviction for mass murder requires a life sentence or the death penalty. Personally, I hope it is a life sentence in solitary.
We can try to examine the cause of it all we want. But the reality is that the overwhelming majority of Americans are not mass murderers. What can be read into the situation is that we need better mental health treatment to try to get folks like the alleged mass murderer off the street and into treatment BEFORE IT HAPPENS.
1) Another white man commits mass murder
2) Arrested, not exterminated by white cops because he is also white.
3) Life sentence in solitary is cruel and unusual punishment. The death penalty is archaic and should be illegal. No human should be locked away without the possibility of rehabilitation.
Does 'better mental health treatment' mean that white people have to come to terms with the systemically racist society they've created? How do you treat such a thing? People bleat this idea every time a mass shooting happens as a way to explain it away without actually changing anything fundamentally.
You know what would have stopped this from being a mass shooting? Mandatory background checks, lock requirements on guns that aren't in use, a national gun registry, and culpability of gun owners for crimes committed using their gun.
-
I don't know that he hated Asians. It says that he had been treated for sex addiction. Somewhere in his mind, I think he was ashamed of his weakness and equated the Asian women with temptation.
A Korean newspaper reported that he wanted to kill all Asians.
Let's take your sex addiction comment for example. He blamed Asian Women for his sex addiction. And he went out and targeted and killed Asian Women as opposed to other Women. He did this at three locations (had planned for more in an additional state) even though there was ample opportunity to kill many other people in that 45 minute radius because of his sex addiction. For example, why not kill those at the strip clubs and other adult places on his route?
Here is what several experts had to say about it, worth your time:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/racism-sexism-must-be-considered-atlanta-case-involving-killing-six-n1261347
-
Gang, I'm no great fan of guns. I don't own one. Never have. Never will. If we banned handguns, as an extreme measure, this middle of the road conservative would weep not.
That said, the problem with regulating guns is threefold. First, the Supreme Court will strike down anything that's more than minimal. It isn't this court or the last one. Or the one before that. Going back to the Warren Court, SCOTUS has taken a relatively tough stance on harsh gun control. For heaven's sake, in my lifetime, we had one President murdered, a second nearly killed and third shot at twice in about a month. After each incident, there was calls -- even by Republicans -- for much stricter laws. They never passed. The expectation is SCOTUS would strike it down.
Secondly, while I am extremely supportive of much tighter gun laws, there is a fundamental difference between how a gun is used in an urban environment and how it's used in rural locations. I have a close friend who lives in suburban Fairbanks. He goes outside, as does his wife, armed with a pistol. He's not worried about crime. Rather, he's worried about a friendly neighborhood moose or bear wandering on the property and deciding he or his wife would make an excellent dinner -- or in the case of the moose, a mating partner. The pistol is a tool, much like a shovel or a rake. I have other friends who own rifles legally who hunt. They have been trained in the proper use of their weapons and lock them up when not in use. The laws that you pass that limit gun ownership apply equally to a person whose goal is urban terror or a person whose goal is bear protection.
Thirdly, where I agree with most gun control advocates is getting automatic weapons out of the hands of civilians. I see no need for any private citizen to own an automatic weapon.
Ultimately, you want to get serious about guns, you lock up anyone with mandatory sentences who commits crimes (beginning with illegal possession) with handguns.
-
I don't know that he hated Asians. It says that he had been treated for sex addiction. Somewhere in his mind, I think he was ashamed of his weakness and equated the Asian women with temptation.
But if he was an alcoholic, been to rehab, blamed Black bartenders for his temptation and drove to locations where he knew only Black bartenders worked it would still be blatant hate crimes against Black people.
Why he chose Asians doesn't matter, he targeted one race.
-
Doesn't matter. He should have said "we caught a mass murderer and he will be prosecuted fully" Full stop. We all have bad days. We are almost 100% NOT mass murderers. It was one on the most incredibly stupid and insensitive comments I have ever heard. He comment showed more sympathy for the murderer than he showed for the victims.
Selling racist tee-shirts doesn't help the officer's image either.
That's your opinion. He was being asked about the motive and was answering the questions from the reporters. He said what the investigators specifically said the killer told them. But, we're not allowed to actually dig into context, we just go with snippets of what someone said and form our own interpretation that can advance a narrative. I fail to see how "this is what the guy told the investigators" was designed to have sympathy for the killer.
I guess I need to put pragmatism aside and remember that in 2021, intent and context do not matter anymore, especially with a publication like Vox.
In context it actually looks worse IMO.
you must have chosen to only watch the 20 second clip. https://youtu.be/tHVIlPKpHQU
-
Gang, I'm no great fan of guns. I don't own one. Never have. Never will. If we banned handguns, as an extreme measure, this middle of the road conservative would weep not.
That said, the problem with regulating guns is threefold. First, the Supreme Court will strike down anything that's more than minimal. It isn't this court or the last one. Or the one before that. Going back to the Warren Court, SCOTUS has taken a relatively tough stance on harsh gun control. For heaven's sake, in my lifetime, we had one President murdered, a second nearly killed and third shot at twice in about a month. After each incident, there was calls -- even by Republicans -- for much stricter laws. They never passed. The expectation is SCOTUS would strike it down.
Secondly, while I am extremely supportive of much tighter gun laws, there is a fundamental difference between how a gun is used in an urban environment and how it's used in rural locations. I have a close friend who lives in suburban Fairbanks. He goes outside, as does his wife, armed with a pistol. He's not worried about crime. Rather, he's worried about a friendly neighborhood moose or bear wandering on the property and deciding he or his wife would make an excellent dinner -- or in the case of the moose, a mating partner. The pistol is a tool, much like a shovel or a rake. I have other friends who own rifles legally who hunt. They have been trained in the proper use of their weapons and lock them up when not in use. The laws that you pass that limit gun ownership apply equally to a person whose goal is urban terror or a person whose goal is bear protection.
Thirdly, where I agree with most gun control advocates is getting automatic weapons out of the hands of civilians. I see no need for any private citizen to own an automatic weapon.
Ultimately, you want to get serious about guns, you lock up anyone with mandatory sentences who commits crimes (beginning with illegal possession) with handguns.
Do you have anything to add about Asian Americans? Two posts so far and not a single word.
-
That's your opinion. He was being asked about the motive, he said what the investigators said the killer told them. But, we're not allowed to actually dig into context, we just go with snippets of what someone said and form our own interpretation that can advance a narrative.
I guess I need to put pragmatism aside and remember that in 2021, intent and context do not matter anymore.
As Fluffy said, it looks worse in context.
-
Do you have anything to add about Asian Americans? Two posts so far and not a single word.
Shoot, I don’t see this as an Asian American thing. They were victims of someone who obviously had mental health issues.
I also see it as a gun control issue.
It is regrettable the things said about Asian-Americans but Asians are the victims less of their ethnicity and more of someone’s mental health issues. I know that is of little comfort to the Asian community, and all lives matter, but it is how I feel.
-
Shoot, I don’t see this as an Asian American thing. They were victims of someone who obviously had mental health issues.
I also see it as a gun control issue.
It is regrettable the things said about Asian-Americans but Asians are the victims less of their ethnicity and more of someone’s mental health issues. I know that is of little comfort to the Asian community, and all lives matter, but it is how I feel.
Anybody who shoots multiple people/kills people while storming the US Capital trying to overturn an election/hunts down people of a specific race/etc. has mental health issues. The underlying racism/hate cannot be ignored and ignoring the fact that flaming racism drives those with mental health issues towards violence and not towards help is at the heart of the "regrettable things said about Asian-Americans".
There is a reason some of those with a platform say those "regrettable" (your words, I use hateful and ignorant) words and it is that they are expecting this exact outcome.......someone who is struggling will go over the tipping point.
Yes, absolutely provide a safety net for anyone dealing with mental health issues. But also, shine a bright light on the racism and bigotry involved in executing and enabling these acts, to drive it back into the shadows.
-
Shoot, I don’t see this as an Asian American thing. They were victims of someone who obviously had mental health issues.
I also see it as a gun control issue.
It is regrettable the things said about Asian-Americans but Asians are the victims less of their ethnicity and more of someone’s mental health issues. I know that is of little comfort to the Asian community, and all lives matter, but it is how I feel.
Hate crimes were down this past year, except against Asian Americans, which were up over 150%. Over 4,000 reported incidents, and many others have gone unreported. Were none of them targeted because of their race?
In Atlanta, if they weren't targeted because of their ethnicity, why did witnesses say the shooter said they were? If they weren't targeted because of their race why choose only Asian American Women? Why travel 45 minutes to 3 places, planning more before stopped, and only choose Asian American victims if they weren't targeted because of their race? Why pass up the opportunity to kill many other people along the way who weren't Asian?
-
Shoot, I don’t see this as an Asian American thing. They were victims of someone who obviously had mental health issues.
I also see it as a gun control issue.
It is regrettable the things said about Asian-Americans but Asians are the victims less of their ethnicity and more of someone’s mental health issues. I know that is of little comfort to the Asian community, and all lives matter, but it is how I feel.
Uh...this was definitely a targeted hate crime.
-
When I have a really bad day I eat too much pizza and binge watch Peaky Blinders.
-
Uh...this was definitely a targeted hate crime.
6 of the 8 victims were Asian. But 7 of the 8 victims were women. Are you sure that it wasn't a hate crime against women? Honest question. The murderer had been treated for sex addiction, and of course, it's always the woman's fault that a man can't resist her.
He targeted spas that offered, to put it delicately, more than backrubs. Were there any of that type of spa in that general area that did not have primarily Asian employees?
Hate crimes of any kind are terrible. It is shameful that they have increased against Asians. I am just not sure that calling this particular incident a hate crime against Asians is accurate.
-
6 of the 8 victims were Asian. But 7 of the 8 victims were women. Are you sure that it wasn't a hate crime against women? Honest question. The murderer had been treated for sex addiction, and of course, it's always the woman's fault that a man can't resist her.
He targeted spas that offered, to put it delicately, more than backrubs. Were there any of that type of spa in that general area that did not have primarily Asian employees?
Hate crimes of any kind are terrible. It is shameful that they have increased against Asians. I am just not sure that calling this particular incident a hate crime against Asians is accurate.
Why can't it be both? He didn't blame Women for his problems. He blamed Asian Women. He didn't target just Women in his 45 minute geographic radius. He specifically targeted Asian Women. He had lots of opportunity to target other Women. He traveled 45 minutes to do so. He was literally on his way to Florida to specifically target others too. Strip clubs along the way? Nope. Adult video stores? Nope. Adult movie theaters? Nope. Non Asian owned spas? Nope. Just Asian owned businesses with predominantly Asian employees.
The fact he sees Asian Women as temptation for his sexual addiction, is....racial motivation.
-
6 of the 8 victims were Asian. But 7 of the 8 victims were women. Are you sure that it wasn't a hate crime against women? Honest question. The murderer had been treated for sex addiction, and of course, it's always the woman's fault that a man can't resist her.
He targeted spas that offered, to put it delicately, more than backrubs. Were there any of that type of spa in that general area that did not have primarily Asian employees?
Hate crimes of any kind are terrible. It is shameful that they have increased against Asians. I am just not sure that calling this particular incident a hate crime against Asians is accurate.
You're not entirely wrong, but there are plenty of adult entertainment venues in the greater Atlanta area. The fact he chose only Asian massage parlors and admitted that at the time of his capture he was on his way to Florida to attack more Asian massage parlors isn't a coincidence.
-
I have two colleagues (Math Professors) that came to the states from China in the early 2000's. Both of them on separate occasions told me that they absolutely believe the Chinese government released the COVID virus. The stories they tell about the Chinese government are mind blowing. China demonizes itself by its' behavior. Pointing out the behavior is not demonizing it. Now I don't know what is true or not about this pandemic and I'll admit this is just an anecdote, but what I do know is these same people are fearful for their families safety. To attack Asians because of a pandemic they had no control over is absurd. Anyone who attacks an Asian because of COVID should be charged with a hate crime.
-
I have two colleagues (Math Professors) that came to the states from China in the early 2000's. Both of them on separate occasions told me that they absolutely believe the Chinese government released the COVID virus. The stories they tell about the Chinese government are mind blowing. China demonizes itself by its' behavior. Pointing out the behavior is not demonizing it. Now I don't know what is true or not about his pandemic and I'll admit this is just an anecdote, but what I do know is these same people are fearful for their families safety. To attack Asians because of a pandemic they had no control over is absurd. Anyone who attacks an Asian because of COVID should be charged with a hate crime.
I'm sure these guys have a bone to pick with the Chinese gov't, but that doesn't mean they are wrong. What they say could be true - we just don't know yet.
-
I'm sure these guys have a bone to pick with the Chinese gov't, but that doesn't mean they are wrong. What they say could be true - we just don't know yet.
Don't be sexist, one is a female ;)
-
I have two colleagues (Math Professors) that came to the states from China in the early 2000's. Both of them on separate occasions told me that they absolutely believe the Chinese government released the COVID virus. The stories they tell about the Chinese government are mind blowing. China demonizes itself by its' behavior. Pointing out the behavior is not demonizing it. Now I don't know what is true or not about his pandemic and I'll admit this is just an anecdote, but what I do know is these same people are fearful for their families safety. To attack Asians because of a pandemic they had no control over is absurd. Anyone who attacks an Asian because of COVID should be charged with a hate crime.
That’s the complexity and duality of all of this. There are myriad reasons to be disgusted by, hateful towards, and suspicious of the CCP and their actions. I too have colleagues who left/escaped China, and plenty that are still there, and some of it is eye opening and shocking to say the least. However, to direct that towards anyone here is disgusting and absurd. Especially since the many left China for the same reasons and negativity that people here have towards that regime. To act like there is culpability for any Chinese citizen, much less immigrants, for the actions of a totalitarian state is preposterous. And that’s not even including the actions towards people of other Asian backgrounds.
I hate the CCP, HATE HATE HATE what they are doing in that country. They’ve ruined and continue to destroy HK, one of my favorite places in the world. Their human rights record is ghastly. Hate what it takes to do business there in many cases. However, I have friends who are Chinese nationals, Chinese employees in Shenzhen (a few who are vocal supporters of the government even), a friend/customer in Shanghai whose wife is well connected in the government and has insane wealth that is no small part connected to that. And we have an office there and have a large and growing part of our business dependent on the consumers in that country. It’s just not black and white. Beyond the flat out racism against an ethnicity, holding hundreds of millions of people accountable and in hate for the actions of a select elite is incredibly small brained.
-
Racist anti-Asian hashtags spiked after Trump first tweeted ‘Chinese virus,’ study finds
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/19/trump-tweets-chinese-virus-racist/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F30f51c6%2F6054ccb39d2fda4c8812bf47%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F57%2F70%2F6054ccb39d2fda4c8812bf47
As the coronavirus spread across the globe last February, the World Health Organization urged people to avoid terms like the “Wuhan virus” or the “Chinese virus,” fearing it could spike a backlash against Asians.
President Donald Trump didn’t take the advice. On March 16, 2020, he first tweeted the phrase “Chinese virus.”
That single tweet, researchers later found, fueled exactly the kind of backlash the WHO had feared: It was followed by an avalanche of tweets using the hashtag #chinesevirus, among other anti-Asian phrases.
“The week before Trump’s tweet the dominant term [on Twitter] was #covid-19,” Yulin Hswen, an epidemiology professor at the University of California at San Francisco and a co-author of the study, told The Washington Post. “The week after his tweet, it was #chinesevirus.”
Not only did more people use the #chinesevirus hashtag days after Trump’s tweet, but those who did were more likely to include other anti-Asian hashtags in their tweets, according to the peer-reviewed study published by the American Journal of Public Health on Thursday.
The group’s findings come amid a wave of racist attacks and threats against Asian Americans, which some advocates have blamed on Trump’s anti-China rhetoric over the pandemic. Trump repeatedly referred to the disease as the “Chinese virus” and the “Kung flu” during White House briefings, campaign rallies and other public appearances.
-
Why can't it be both? He didn't blame Women for his problems. He blamed Asian Women. He didn't target just Women in his 45 minute geographic radius. He specifically targeted Asian Women. He had lots of opportunity to target other Women. He traveled 45 minutes to do so. He was literally on his way to Florida to specifically target others too. Strip clubs along the way? Nope. Adult video stores? Nope. Adult movie theaters? Nope. Non Asian owned spas? Nope. Just Asian owned businesses with predominantly Asian employees.
The fact he sees Asian Women as temptation for his sexual addiction, is....racial motivation.
I believe you are wrong. They were the majority of employees of places he had previously visited. There is no evidence he had any other intentions but to shoot up the place. one of his victims was a Latino male.So it seems more like a crime of opportunity. How do you know his intensions of looking only for Asian spas. I'm no expert but perhaps you could explain the difference between asian and non-asian spas for us.
-
I believe you are wrong. They were the majority of employees of places he had previously visited. There is no evidence he had any other intentions but to shoot up the place. one of his victims was a Latino male.So it seems more like a crime of opportunity.
Murders across 3 locations and 45 minutes of driving are premeditated not opportunistic.
How do you know his intensions of looking only for Asian spas.
Because he drove 45 minutes to attack multiple Asian spas. I don't know where you live but there are at least 300 spas, strip joints, adult stores within 45 minutes of my house and KC is much smaller than ATL. He was hunting.
I'm no expert but perhaps you could explain the difference between asian and non-asian spas for us.
Here you are just trying to hide your ignorance and/or bigotry by trying to paint Shoothoops as someone you can look down on. Pretty lame.
-
Racist anti-Asian hashtags spiked after Trump first tweeted ‘Chinese virus,’ study finds
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/19/trump-tweets-chinese-virus-racist/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F30f51c6%2F6054ccb39d2fda4c8812bf47%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F57%2F70%2F6054ccb39d2fda4c8812bf47
As the coronavirus spread across the globe last February, the World Health Organization urged people to avoid terms like the “Wuhan virus” or the “Chinese virus,” fearing it could spike a backlash against Asians.
President Donald Trump didn’t take the advice. On March 16, 2020, he first tweeted the phrase “Chinese virus.”
That single tweet, researchers later found, fueled exactly the kind of backlash the WHO had feared: It was followed by an avalanche of tweets using the hashtag #chinesevirus, among other anti-Asian phrases.
“The week before Trump’s tweet the dominant term [on Twitter] was #covid-19,” Yulin Hswen, an epidemiology professor at the University of California at San Francisco and a co-author of the study, told The Washington Post. “The week after his tweet, it was #chinesevirus.”
Not only did more people use the #chinesevirus hashtag days after Trump’s tweet, but those who did were more likely to include other anti-Asian hashtags in their tweets, according to the peer-reviewed study published by the American Journal of Public Health on Thursday.
The group’s findings come amid a wave of racist attacks and threats against Asian Americans, which some advocates have blamed on Trump’s anti-China rhetoric over the pandemic. Trump repeatedly referred to the disease as the “Chinese virus” and the “Kung flu” during White House briefings, campaign rallies and other public appearances.
Well here is another take on the wave of attacks against asians that differ from the Washington Posts narrative.
https://kendawg.medium.com/this-is-what-black-on-asian-crime-looks-like-ac41e740a87c
-
Well here is another take on the wave of attacks against asians that differ from the Washington Posts narrative.
https://kendawg.medium.com/this-is-what-black-on-asian-crime-looks-like-ac41e740a87c
I've never heard of Ken Dow and, I could have missed it but, the link doesn't provide resources that would attest to his credentials. I'm familiar with the Washington Post's credentials can you tell us about Ken Dow's?
According his site I know he has 350 followers, and I can assume you are one of them, but other than that.........
-
Well here is another take on the wave of attacks against asians that differ from the Washington Posts narrative.
https://kendawg.medium.com/this-is-what-black-on-asian-crime-looks-like-ac41e740a87c
Yes, that is some random dude's take, you're right.
-
The guy had to choose whether he hated her more for being Asian or for being black.
Lotta tough decisions for trump's people.
Why more people don’t have you on ignore is a mystery. For me, it’s just fun to watch you lick your chops just waiting for something to cry about and play victim along with the real victims thinking people take you seriously
-
I tend to think this article is correct:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/03/the-flattening-of-the-atlanta-shootings.html
The rush to identify one true motive prevents us from understanding the complexities of a crime like this — and ultimately does a disservice to the victims themselves.
Mass shootings are often misunderstood, and myths about the motivations of the perpetrators, established in the hours and days after the initial event, can linger for years.
It also super befuddles me that three different massage parlors can be open, listed on "Rubmaps" as 24/7 "full service" businesses and checks a lot of "sex trafficking" boxes ... without the police just, you know, making an effort. Kinda seems like low hanging crime fruit.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2021/03/17/atlanta-spa-shootings-illicit-reviews-massage-parlors/4737755001/
-
Yes, that is some random asian dude's take, you're right.
There, I clarified it for you.
-
I tend to think this article is correct:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/03/the-flattening-of-the-atlanta-shootings.html
The rush to identify one true motive prevents us from understanding the complexities of a crime like this — and ultimately does a disservice to the victims themselves.
Mass shootings are often misunderstood, and myths about the motivations of the perpetrators, established in the hours and days after the initial event, can linger for years.
Very reasonable.
-
I've never heard of Ken Dow and, I could have missed it but, the link doesn't provide resources that would attest to his credentials. I'm familiar with the Washington Post's credentials can you tell us about Ken Dow's?
According his site I know he has 350 followers, and I can assume you are one of them, but other than that.........
What credentials does a Chinese American require to tell his story of living in a predominantly African American neighborhood. He shows a chart issued by the DOJ which clearly shows that the most common perpetrator against asians are black. Is the DOJ report any less valid then the study noted the Washington Post?
-
Well here is another take on the wave of attacks against asians that differ from the Washington Posts narrative.
https://kendawg.medium.com/this-is-what-black-on-asian-crime-looks-like-ac41e740a87c
That article is from last July. Honestly what is it with you and race that you get so triggered?
-
There, I clarified it for you.
Right. Because one Asian guy speaks for all of them.
-
That article is from last July. Honestly what is it with you and race that you get so triggered?
Because when a white man commits a crime, we need to be reminded that black men are evil too. I honestly don't think he even knows how racist his comments are as these feeling are so natural to him.
-
I believe you are wrong. They were the majority of employees of places he had previously visited. There is no evidence he had any other intentions but to shoot up the place. one of his victims was a Latino male.So it seems more like a crime of opportunity. How do you know his intensions of looking only for Asian spas. I'm no expert but perhaps you could explain the difference between asian and non-asian spas for us.
This was a murder spree that was race and mysogony specific. What we know is what he did.
The facts are the shooter had ample opportunity to target a wide variety of places to attend for his “addiction.” He specifically chose Asian places passing up lots and lots of other places.
If it was a sex addiction, why only attend Asian places for his sex addiction?
The facts are the shooter could have targeted and killed a wide variety of related places, but yet he only chose the Asian places.
Have you ever been to Atlanta?
He started in Woodstock, NW, and there he avoided some places and chose others. He traveled 45 minutes (an hour in rain or traffic) to Buckhead. Along the way he chose not to stop at the plethora of places of related opportunity in Piedmont Midtown, etc...or nearby Buckhead itself. He was arrested 150 Southeast, avoiding many other places along the way, as he was planning to kill more people in Florida.
The shooter was walking distance from other spas, adult entertainment clubs, adult novelty shops, exotic dancers, clothing boutiques.
I am not surprised by your post. Here is a small sample of some others:
On March 19th you said, “I’m totally against diversity.” “Wojo was too diverse.”
March 4, “Finding racism in everything these days is absurd.”
Jan 7, “DT did more for black people the last four years than any time in history.”
Jan 6, “Police actually shoot more white perps and unarmed Whites than blacks” (try percentage next time)
July 17 “Bigotry and racist have become synonymous with someone I don’t agree with”
July 11 “Tucker Carlson is not racist”
March 2 “The common flu levels more but doesn’t sell like the WuFlu”
“I don’t think the Indians logo is racist” “People who think only white people can be racist are a bit oversensitive” “I was a victim of reverse racism and have seen my own children be verbally attacked with racial slurs simply for being white”
Oct 23 “I think Racist is the most overused term in the English lexicon to the point where it is becoming impotent”
“I’ve never heard an outcry because a black was given a part in a movie” “I don’t think there is a conscious effort to exclude people”
Feb 29 “If diversity is so important to some, why have black awards?”
Feb 26 “Love how people ignore what the Native Americans did to each other long before white privileged European land stealer started coming here. oh and slavery was an accepted practice among the tribes as well. Still acceptable to call me honkey, cracker, snowflake etc”
March 16 “Serena Williams inspires what not to be. Richard Williams is a bigoted uncouth gravy trainer”
Dec 20 “I mainly watch Fox News for anything that reflects negatively on the (Obama) administration”
Aug 31 “Police shooting black youths is an urban myth”
July 14 “Marquette has a Gender & Sexuality Resource Center? Well I guess you have to do something with a Women’s Studies degree.”
June 14 “You guys are going way off the reservation with this racism stuff”
Jan 20 “We have to do something with all of the illegals”
Oct 10 “Why is it that white people were the only ones who run over native people and take their land”
“It seems many of these diversity programs seek more to punish and castigate than celebrate what is unique and positive in all of us.”
What we know is what the Atlanta shooter did.
-
This was a murder spree that was race and mysogony specific. What we know is what he did.
The facts are the shooter had ample opportunity to target a wide variety of places to attend for his “addiction.” He specifically chose Asian places passing up lots and lots of other places.
If it was a sex addiction, why only attend Asian places for his sex addiction?
The facts are the shooter could have targeted and killed a wide variety of related places, but yet he only chose the Asian places.
Have you ever been to Atlanta?
He started in Woodstock, NW, and there he avoided some places and chose others. He traveled 45 minutes (an hour in rain or traffic) to Buckhead. Along the way he chose not to stop at the plethora of places of related opportunity in Piedmont Midtown, etc...or nearby Buckhead itself. He was arrested 150 Southeast, avoiding many other places along the way, as he was planning to kill more people in Florida.
The shooter was walking distance from other spas, adult entertainment clubs, adult novelty shops, exotic dancers, clothing boutiques.
I am not surprised by your post. Here is a small sample of some others:
On March 19th you said, “I’m totally against diversity.” “Wojo was too diverse.”
March 4, “Finding racism in everything these days is absurd.”
Jan 7, “DT did more for black people the last four years than any time in history.”
Jan 6, “Police actually shoot more white perps and unarmed Whites than blacks” (try percentage next time)
July 17 “Bigotry and racist have become synonymous with someone I don’t agree with”
July 11 “Tucker Carlson is not racist”
March 2 “The common flu levels more but doesn’t sell like the WuFlu”
“I don’t think the Indians logo is racist” “People who think only white people can be racist are a bit oversensitive” “I was a victim of reverse racism and have seen my own children be verbally attacked with racial slurs simply for being white”
Oct 23 “I think Racist is the most overused term in the English lexicon to the point where it is becoming impotent”
“I’ve never heard an outcry because a black was given a part in a movie” “I don’t think there is a conscious effort to exclude people”
Feb 29 “If diversity is so important to some, why have black awards?”
Feb 26 “Love how people ignore what the Native Americans did to each other long before white privileged European land stealer started coming here. oh and slavery was an accepted practice among the tribes as well. Still acceptable to call me honkey, cracker, snowflake etc”
March 16 “Serena Williams inspires what not to be. Richard Williams is a bigoted uncouth gravy trainer”
Dec 20 “I mainly watch Fox News for anything that reflects negatively on the (Obama) administration”
Aug 31 “Police shooting black youths is an urban myth”
July 14 “Marquette has a Gender & Sexuality Resource Center? Well I guess you have to do something with a Women’s Studies degree.”
June 14 “You guys are going way off the reservation with this racism stuff”
Jan 20 “We have to do something with all of the illegals”
Oct 10 “Why is it that white people were the only ones who run over native people and take their land”
“It seems many of these diversity programs seek more to punish and castigate than celebrate what is unique and positive in all of us.”
What we know is what the Atlanta shooter did.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERMOVRwU0AEnXUv.jpg)
-
While sitting in front of a painting of a plantation, the Georgia governor signed a massive voting-rights restrictions bill into law. One of the things it criminalizes is giving water to those standing in line. That's right -- if a private citizen hands a bottle of water to a fellow Georgian who has been waiting in line for hours on a hot day, that citizen can be arrested.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/georgia-voter-restriction-law-plantation-painting?utm_term=OZY&utm_campaign=pdb&utm_content=Saturday_03.27.21&utm_source=Campaigner&utm_medium=email
Jim Crow lives!
-
Korean-owned convenience store in Charlotte is trashed. It’s not the first time.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article250389431.html?ac_cid=DM419831&ac_bid=-40811320
A man wielding a metal post came into Plaza Sundries, an Asian-owned convenience store near the Charlotte Transit Center, on Tuesday and trashed the business while yelling racial slurs.
It was hardly the first time an incident of that kind has happened, said Mark Sung, whose parents own the shop and were working there at the time.
“Chinese (expletive).” “Go back to your country.” These are among the insults Sung said his family, who are Korean, hear every day.
-
Seems to be a model citizen.
https://www.mecklenburgpublicrecords.com/mecklenburg-records-report.php?id=162510
The day after the first Antifa riots out here my wife and I were helping an Chinese man and his brother clean up their convenience store, which had been broken into and trashed the night before. He kept asking “what did I do? Why do this to me?” It was sad and infuriating at the same time.
-
Seems to be a model citizen.
https://www.mecklenburgpublicrecords.com/mecklenburg-records-report.php?id=162510
The day after the first Antifa riots out here my wife and I were helping an Chinese man and his brother clean up their convenience store, which had been broken into and trashed the night before. He kept asking “what did I do? Why do this to me?” It was sad and infuriating at the same time.
Agree that the guy sounds like a bad person and that it's sad those people you know had their store trashed.
Not sure what the gratuitous reference to antifa had to do with anything. You sure it wasn't the boogaloos?
-
While sitting in front of a painting of a plantation, the Georgia governor signed a massive voting-rights restrictions bill into law. One of the things it criminalizes is giving water to those standing in line. That's right -- if a private citizen hands a bottle of water to a fellow Georgian who has been waiting in line for hours on a hot day, that citizen can be arrested.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/georgia-voter-restriction-law-plantation-painting?utm_term=OZY&utm_campaign=pdb&utm_content=Saturday_03.27.21&utm_source=Campaigner&utm_medium=email
Jim Crow lives!
your teal button ain't working 82? as a retired "journalist" you surely know this is not very accurate but if lester is your hero, i guess this is the "new" "journalism"
-
your teal button ain't working 82? as a retired "journalist" you surely know this is not very accurate but if lester is your hero, i guess this is the "new" "journalism"
Every word was accurate. Please provide evidence otherwise. Oh, and Tucker Carlson isn't "evidence."
-
your teal button ain't working 82? as a retired "journalist" you surely know this is not very accurate but if lester is your hero, i guess this is the "new" "journalism"
What’s not accurate about it?
-
you can't give someone water as an incentive to vote. besides, bring your own damn water.
btw, new york's and delawares voter laws are stricter than georgia's
waiting to hear about boycotting china over genocide and concentratiuon camps and waiting and...no? those things are ok?
oh, tucker don't count, but whatever our demented potus slurs off the jumbotron prompter is all good, that's if the wind don't get him on the way up
-
you can't give someone water as an incentive to vote. besides, bring your own damn water.
btw, new york's and delawares voter laws are stricter than georgia's
waiting to hear about boycotting china over genocide and concentratiuon camps and waiting and...no? those things are ok?
oh, tucker don't count, but whatever our demented potus slurs off the jumbotron prompter is all good, that's if the wind don't get him on the way up
I’m glad you’re so concerned about China. Join me in boycotting all companies that do business with China.
-
I think the Asian Hate thing goes back to when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor. Inscrutable.
-
I think the Asian Hate thing goes back to when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor. Inscrutable.
Let's try to stick to the topic of the thread or start a new thread on movies or voting rights etc...
-
you can't give someone water as an incentive to vote.
You are right. Because no one would be "incentivized" by water. People want to vote because they want to participate in democracy. And some places make that hard (especially poor places with large minority populations). So they have to stand in line for a long time to do so - and they get thirsty. And now it is a crime to give water to thirsty people. (Insert appropriate Biblical verse here for irony sake.)
The idea that you think people are "incentivized" by water is bizarre. These laws are all about making it harder to vote because the party in charge has determined that coming up with popular policies is way too hard.
Politicians should be making it easier to vote because we can do so without fear of fraud. They should encourage people to vote and shout loudly why they should vote for their candidate. But the Republicans have decided not to do that.
Very anti-democratic of them.
-
you can't give someone water as an incentive to vote. besides, bring your own damn water.
btw, new york's and delawares voter laws are stricter than georgia's
waiting to hear about boycotting china over genocide and concentratiuon camps and waiting and...no? those things are ok?
oh, tucker don't count, but whatever our demented potus slurs off the jumbotron prompter is all good, that's if the wind don't get him on the way up
So, nothing I said was inaccurate, despite you lying and saying it was. Thanks!
Did you ever listen to your Mad King read the teleprompter? He reads at about a 3rd-grade level. Yo-Semite, anybody? And he's so demented, he actually thought he won the 2020 election? Can you imagine that? Oh wait ... what's that? ... you think he won, too? Great!
-
People want to vote because they want to participate in democracy.
The liberating expression of freedom lives proudly in some jurisdictions. There are some precincts where it is so easy to vote that even the dead cast ballots. Multiple times.
It's put two Catholics in office, even!
-
You are right. Because no one would be "incentivized" by water. People want to vote because they want to participate in democracy. And some places make that hard (especially poor places with large minority populations). So they have to stand in line for a long time to do so - and they get thirsty. And now it is a crime to give water to thirsty people. (Insert appropriate Biblical verse here for irony sake.)
The idea that you think people are "incentivized" by water is bizarre. These laws are all about making it harder to vote because the party in charge has determined that coming up with popular policies is way too hard.
Politicians should be making it easier to vote because we can do so without fear of fraud. They should encourage people to vote and shout loudly why they should vote for their candidate. But the Republicans have decided not to do that.
Very anti-democratic of them.
I find it bizarre that people are unable to provide their own snacks and water and won’t be able to vote if they have to rely on others within 150 feet of a polling station.
I did a dumb thing and sought out multiple sources to learn about the law. While there are many issues with this law, that is not one that I care about, and there are things in there that do make going easier. If we do anything it should be a huge expansion of mail in voting and more drop boxes in cities. In Oregon every library is a drop site in addition to boxes. The state commission bothers me most, not water.
https://blog.simplejustice.us/2021/04/03/the-night-the-lights-went-out-in-georgia/
Under the new Georgia law, it will be easier to vote by mail than it is in New York. Citizens will have a far longer window to vote than in New Jersey. In New York, gifts on line under a dollar are exempt from criminalization, but you can still hand out free stuff in Georgia as long as it’s 150 feet away from the polling place. There will be too many drop boxes in the sticks and not enough in cities.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/31/politics/fact-check-georgia-voting-bill-law-elections-explained/index.html?fbclid=IwAR0O3IzHgGYp4lJBaIgYr5eK4u03UBbC60Ad4qm1wMrwBxdR2gC6XaJErAE
The law makes it a misdemeanor for "any person" to give or offer "any money or gifts," including "food and drink," to any voter within a polling place, within 150 feet of the building housing a polling place, or "within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place."
-
More good analysis of GA voting law and statistical analysis of the likely impact.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/03/upshot/georgia-election-law-turnout.html
-
More good analysis of GA voting law and statistical analysis of the likely impact.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/03/upshot/georgia-election-law-turnout.html
Thanks for that analysis. I agree it was informative.
It explains a lot. Such as this:
A provision that empowers the Republican-controlled State Legislature to play a larger role in election administration. That provision has uncertain but potentially substantial effects, depending on what the Legislature might do in the future. And it’s possible the law is intended to do exactly what progressives fear: reshape the electorate to the advantage of Republicans, soon after an electoral defeat, by making it harder to vote.
And this:
That doesn’t mean the Georgia law or other such laws are without consequence. Many make voting more difficult, enough to intimidate or discourage some voters. Many outright disenfranchise voters, even if only in small numbers. Perhaps the disenfranchisement of even a single voter merits outrage and opposition, especially if the law is passed on dubious or even fabricated grounds, and with Jim Crow mass disenfranchisement as a historical backdrop.
-
MLB first baseman from Taiwan commits error; faces barrage of racist tweets
https://apnews.com/article/mlb-cleveland-chicago-white-sox-cleveland-indians-5d83dc48aa160d8b2eb20657b608f4e0
CLEVELAND (AP) — Indians manager Terry Francona called racist social media messages sent to first baseman Yu Chang “stupid and ignorant” and said they have no place in baseball or “anywhere.”
On Tuesday, Chang shared some anti-Asian postings he received on Twitter after he made a costly error in the ninth inning of Monday night’s game in Chicago. The throwing error allowed the White Sox to score the winning run.
Chang, who is Taiwanese, posted some of the tweets on his account while asking for tolerance. One of the messages referred to the shape of his eyes and another referred to the coronavirus.
“Exercise your freedom of speech in a right way, I accept all comments, positive or negative but DEFINITELY NOT RACIST ONES,” Chang wrote. “Thank you all and love you all.”
-
another elderly Asian-American attacked but charges dropped because, well...white supremacy?
https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/charges-dropped-against-suspect-in-attack-of-elderly-asian-man-in-san-francisco/
This is the same DA who dropped charges against an attacker who killed an 84 year old man, claiming the killer was just having "a temper tantrum." This DA was adopted by Bill Ayers and his wife after his parents were convicted of murder as members of the Weather Underground, and he traveled to Venezuela to serve as a translator in the Chavez Presidential Palace.
a 70 year old Hispanic woman was beaten because her attacker thought she was Asian.
https://remezcla.com/culture/70-year-old-mexican-woman-severely-beaten-assailant-thought-asian/
CNN reporter also caught on tape saying they are intentionally burying stories on Asians being attacked by Black men and women because it could "set BLM back."
My in-laws are only leaving their home for my father-in-law's dialysis treatment right now. They have neighbors going to the grocery store for them and get food delivered. They live in a "majority-minority" city and don't believe they will be reasonably protected.
-
This is the same DA who dropped charges against an attacker who killed an 84 year old man, claiming the killer was just having "a temper tantrum." This DA was adopted by Bill Ayers and his wife after his parents were convicted of murder as members of the Weather Underground, and he traveled to Venezuela to serve as a translator in the Chavez Presidential Palace.
And his biological grandfather was the lawyer for Castro and his government. I mean good lord
-
And his biological grandfather was the lawyer for Castro and his government. I mean good lord
We can rightly mock the far right for their worship of monsters like Pinochet, Mussolini, Hitler, etc., but many progressives are no better with their love of Castro, Chavez, Che (even if he wasn’t a politician), Mao, etc.
-
Che (even if he wasn’t a politician)
Che Guevara was every inch a politician. Ballot box or barrel of a gun. Whatever works to advance one's agenda.
-
We can rightly mock the far right for their worship of monsters like Pinochet, Mussolini, Hitler, etc., but many progressives are no better with their love of Castro, Chavez, Che (even if he wasn’t a politician), Mao, etc.
Progressives love Mao Zedong? Strange take.
-
Progressives love Mao Zedong? Strange take.
And Hugo Chavez, apparently (unless he meant Cesar?).
-
Progressives love Mao Zedong? Strange take.
Progressives love any of them? Bizarre take indeed.
-
There are as many communist-loving loonies (and no, not confusing socialists with communists here) that admire or love Mao as alt-right clownshows that admire Hitler and the Nazis. Both are totally small minorities worthy of mockery.
I don't think Chavez is worshiped, but I mean, the current DA of San Fran, who was very well educated and intelligent at the time, made the pointed decision to go work in his administration.
But Che? Thats different. I mean come on, people still worship that dude and continue to uphold his cult hero status.
-
Progressives love any of them? Bizarre take indeed.
When I was younger Che shirts were the rage amongst far left individuals so I think he could have a point there? But I think it's lost because even the most fervent progressive people I know would ascribe to socialism in theory but wouldn't idolize any of those individuals due to its practice.
-
There are as many communist-loving loonies (and no, not confusing socialists with communists here) that admire or love Mao as alt-right clownshows that admire Hitler and the Nazis. Both are totally small minorities worthy of mockery.
I don't think Chavez is worshiped, but I mean, the current DA of San Fran, who was very well educated and intelligent at the time, made the pointed decision to go work in his administration.
But Che? Thats different. I mean come on, people still worship that dude and continue to uphold his cult hero status.
I think it's okay to agree with some aspects of a person's belief system while acknowledging that you don't agree with everything. Agreeing 100% of the time with someone is pretty dangerous. Especially when we're talking about politicians.
Amirite?
-
I think it's okay to agree with some aspects of a person's belief system while acknowledging that you don't agree with everything. Agreeing 100% of the time with someone is pretty dangerous. Especially when we're talking about politicians.
Amirite?
No disagreement there, but I'm not wearing a t-shirt with someone's face on it. (shrug)
-
There are as many communist-loving loonies (and no, not confusing socialists with communists here) that admire or love Mao as alt-right clownshows that admire Hitler and the Nazis. Both are totally small minorities worthy of mockery.
Ehhh ... I'm not sure about that. Certainly I may have missed something, but I don't recall seeing many examples of pro-Stalin and Kruschev marches in U.S. cities or Leninism being espoused on major cable news networks.
-
Progressives love Mao Zedong? Strange take.
yes, there's a faction that love Chavez. One Mayoral candidate (took second, only a few points from winning, she was actually leading in the polls into October. Our place was going up for sale if she had won) showed up to an event wearing a skirt with photos of Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and others.
I'd say the numbers are similar to the right wingers who for some reason think Pinochet was some great dude.
Che Guevara was every inch a politician. Ballot box or barrel of a gun. Whatever works to advance one's agenda.
I hear you on that. He was never elected so I didn't consider him a politician in the traditional sense.
-
yes, there's a faction that love Chavez. One Mayoral candidate (took second, only a few points from winning, she was actually leading in the polls into October. Our place was going up for sale if she had won) showed up to an event wearing a skirt with photos of Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and others.
I'd say the numbers are similar to the right wingers who for some reason think Pinochet was some great dude.
I hear you on that. He was never elected so I didn't consider him a politician in the traditional sense.
Yikes. What I find interesting is that if she was going to choose Communists, there are plenty of them that aren't responsible for millions of deaths.
Btw, progressives are different than communists. ;)
-
yes, there's a faction that love Chavez. One Mayoral candidate (took second, only a few points from winning, she was actually leading in the polls into October. Our place was going up for sale if she had won) showed up to an event wearing a skirt with photos of Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and others.
I'd say the numbers are similar to the right wingers who for some reason think Pinochet was some great dude.
I hear you on that. He was never elected so I didn't consider him a politician in the traditional sense.
that's all sorts of horrific. Finding a crazy outlier who's probably looking for shock value is nothing new though. Thankfully she didn't win.
-
that's all sorts of horrific. Finding a crazy outlier who's probably looking for shock value is nothing new though. Thankfully she didn't win.
she wasn't an outlier though, at least here, which was f'ing scary. Our Mayor is pathetically weak (when the Antifa groups set his condo building on fire he moved instead of cracking down) but that was better than her.
Yikes. What I find interesting is that if she was going to choose Communists, there are plenty of them that aren't responsible for millions of deaths.
Btw, progressives are different than communists. ;)
Too many progressives are happy to espouse Marxist ideas and promote communism (though they likely don't know what communism actually is).
-
she wasn't an outlier though, at least here, which was f'ing scary. Our Mayor is pathetically weak (when the Antifa groups set his condo building on fire he moved instead of cracking down) but that was better than her.
Too many progressives are happy to espouse Marxist ideas and promote communism (though they likely don't know what communism actually is).
Nothing wrong with Marxist ideas or communism, but I do agree with your parenthesis.
She was probably the outlier in her veneration for mass murderers.
-
Nothing wrong with Marxist ideas or communism, but I do agree with your parenthesis.
She was probably the outlier in her veneration for mass murderers.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with them fundamentally, but the most prominent communist countries have not turned out great for their citizens, and/or gave rise to awful dictators or repressive regimes. So you end up promoting something that’s been historically pretty awful in practice nearly across the board, saying “well it doesn’t have to be like that”.
-
I don’t think there is anything wrong with them fundamentally, but the most prominent communist countries have not turned out great for their citizens, and/or gave rise to awful dictators or repressive regimes. So you end up promoting something that’s been historically pretty awful in practice nearly across the board, saying “well it doesn’t have to be like that”.
Oh, I don't know about that. Life in the Hermit Kingdom has some appeal.
-
I don’t think there is anything wrong with them fundamentally, but the most prominent communist countries have not turned out great for their citizens, and/or gave rise to awful dictators or repressive regimes. So you end up promoting something that’s been historically pretty awful in practice nearly across the board, saying “well it doesn’t have to be like that”.
Eh, calling some of those countries 'communist' isn't accurate. They're dictatorial in general with the illusion of communism. China is communist in name only.
I think we have really rose tinted glasses about the exceptionalism of capitalism.
-
Oh, I don't know about that. Life in the Hermit Kingdom has some appeal.
Yeah, because North Korea is communist ::)
I know you're joking, though.
-
Eh, calling some of those countries 'communist' isn't accurate. They're dictatorial in general with the illusion of communism. China is communist in name only.
I think we have really rose tinted glasses about the exceptionalism of capitalism.
Marxism will never work because it defies human nature.
"Greed is good" ...Gordon Gecko
-
If there were a perfect economic system, we’d know it by now. But there isn’t and capitalism, for its flaws, has elevated people out of living a subsistence, hand-to-mouth existence in numbers globally that are mind-boggling.
This particular era of unchecked, “late stage” capitalism could use some leavening. But the foundation works.
-
Eh, calling some of those countries 'communist' isn't accurate. They're dictatorial in general with the illusion of communism. China is communist in name only.
I think we have really rose tinted glasses about the exceptionalism of capitalism.
That’s fine, but that’s really all there is. Show me a prosperous thriving communist country. I mean, maybe Vietnam? But it’s still fairly corrupt and extremely poor.
It’s not even “screw everything but capitalism”. I don’t have to support it, but I can see the appeal and benefits of democratic socialism to some. True Communism I can’t see ever properly working in a modern, relatively affluent country. I can only seeing it appealing to those who truly have nothing
-
That’s fine, but that’s really all there is. Show me a prosperous thriving communist country. I mean, maybe Vietnam? But it’s still fairly corrupt and extremely poor.
It’s not even “screw everything but capitalism”. I don’t have to support it, but I can see the appeal and benefits of democratic socialism to some. True Communism I can’t see ever properly working in a modern, relatively affluent country. I can only seeing it appealing to those who truly have nothing
I've been away for a couple of days, but yes, I generally agree. I don't think Communism is very viable as a switch from capitalism because it would be very dramatic. I also have serious doubts that it works on a large scale at all. Communism breeds a ton of corruption, and despotism, which ultimately undermines the entire ideology.
-
it sure is interesting to see how suddenly attacks on Asians and Asian Americans aren't a story anymore once the perpetrators were being identified.
-
it sure is interesting to see how suddenly attacks on Asians and Asian Americans aren't a story anymore once the perpetrators were being identified.
The aggrievement is strong with this one.
Anyhow, facts matter ...
ABC News, yesterday:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hirono-anti-asian-hate-bill-chance-senate-stand/story?id=77163413
LA Times, three days ago:
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-04-17/in-2020-hate-crimes-against-asian-americans-in-l-a-more-than-doubled
NBC News, four days ago:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-meet-asian-pacific-american-caucus-amid-rise-hate-crimes-n1264193
NY Times, five days ago:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/14/us/senate-anti-asian-american-hate-crimes.html
CNN, five days ago:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/14/politics/anti-asian-hate-crimes-senate-vote/index.html
Washington Post, six days ago:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/senate-asian-american-hate-crimes/2021/04/13/a489e14e-9c63-11eb-8005-bffc3a39f6d3_story.html
-
it sure is interesting to see how suddenly attacks on Asians and Asian Americans aren't a story anymore once the perpetrators were being identified.
I think you're getting tunnel vision and the Chauvin case is dominating the news. As Pakuni wrote, there's plenty of coverage, it's not the main story because there's a much larger story at its peak right now.
-
it sure is interesting to see how suddenly attacks on Asians and Asian Americans aren't a story anymore once the perpetrators were being identified.
Wrong again, oh Mr. White Victimhood.
-
Wrong again, oh Mr. White Victimhood.
His tunnel vision could be biasing him with all the other news dominating the headline, but he has an Asian-American wife, elderly Asian American in laws, and that’s clearly the whole driver of his contributions and concerns in this space. Immediately labeling him another fragile white man isn’t fair
-
His tunnel vision could be biasing him with all the other news dominating the headline, but he has an Asian-American wife, elderly Asian American in laws, and that’s clearly the whole driver of his contributions and concerns in this space. Immediately labeling him another fragile white man isn’t fair
The king of name calling.
Blah blah emperor trump blah blah cult blah blah racist blah blah blah. Effen blah.
-
Nothing wrong with Marxist ideas or communism, but I do agree with your parenthesis.
She was probably the outlier in her veneration for mass murderers.
just caught this...wow! kinda 'splains things a little bit i guess, but "nothing wrong"? what have they contributed other than kalashnikovs, vodka and babes?
-
His tunnel vision could be biasing him with all the other news dominating the headline, but he has an Asian-American wife, elderly Asian American in laws, and that’s clearly the whole driver of his contributions and concerns in this space. Immediately labeling him another fragile white man isn’t fair
Billy shouldn't act like a fragile white man so often then. And he shouldn't make stuff up just because he needs to fit a narrative. Kudos to you for coming to his defense, though.
-
just caught this...wow! kinda 'splains things a little bit i guess, but "nothing wrong"? what have they contributed other than kalashnikovs, vodka and babes?
Ah yes, as opposed to the great world of capitalism. Which has brought us slavery, global imperialism, and ecological disaster... all in the name of profit!
Good lord, you're dumb. You probably think the USA is the greatest country in the world, don't you?
-
Ah yes, as opposed to the great world of capitalism. Which has brought us slavery, global imperialism, and ecological disaster... all in the name of profit!
Good lord, you're dumb. You probably think the USA is the greatest country in the world, don't you?
What country is better? Serious question, want to know what you America haters think is a better country.
-
What country is better? Serious question, want to know what you America haters think is a better country.
Well as whole that a tough one. Depending on shifting priorities that were focusing on to rank it I'd rank the USA anywhere from 1 to 15 or even lower. Doesn't help that one of those was duped by their own con man and now many citizens are regretting it.
-
What country is better? Serious question, want to know what you America haters think is a better country.
I don't hate America by any stretch. But I don't think it's the greatest country in the world. Finland gets high marks in a lot of rankings, but I wouldn't want to live there.
I think there has been a national mythos for a long time that the USA does everything better, and that we are some sort of model for what the rest of the world should aspire to be. Are there a lot of awesome things about America? Yes! Do we sniff our own farts? Oh hell yes.
-
Well as whole that a tough one. Depending on shifting priorities that were focusing on to rank it I'd rank the USA anywhere from 1 to 15 or even lower. Doesn't help that one of those was duped by their own con man and now many citizens are regretting it.
It’s complicated for sure. I know plenty of people who have no interest in business or making money, could care less what their tax rate is, are more concerned about not needing to worry or stress about a variety of things. I can totally see why they are disenchanted with America and look longingly at Nordic countries or other places in Europe.
At the same time, I have multiple friends and business associates in countries like Belgium, France, and Norway who bemoan how hard it is to be an entrepreneur there and envy the hell out of the economic openness of the US, even at the expense of some of the benefits they enjoy where they are.
I’m not myopic or nationalist enough to think the US is DA BEST without any comparisons, and can acknowledge there are myriad issues with late stage capitalism. But it is still pretty hard to beat in terms of starting something from scratch and succeeding. Even the most desirable countries in Europe have so much more of a stacked deck if you’re not from generational money or government connected.
-
It’s complicated for sure. I know plenty of people who have no interest in business or making money, could care less what their tax rate is, are more concerned about not needing to worry or stress about a variety of things. I can totally see why they are disenchanted with America and look longingly at Nordic countries or other places in Europe.
At the same time, I have multiple friends and business associates in countries like Belgium, France, and Norway who bemoan how hard it is to be an entrepreneur there and envy the hell out of the economic openness of the US, even at the expense of some of the benefits they enjoy where they are.
I’m not myopic or nationalist enough to think the US is DA BEST without any comparisons, and can acknowledge there are myriad issues with late stage capitalist. But it is still pretty hard to beat in terms of starting something from scratch and succeeding. Even the most desirable countries in Europe have so much more of a stacked deck if you’re not from generational money or government connected.
Great distinction, and absolutely true.
-
It’s complicated for sure. I know plenty of people who have no interest in business or making money, could care less what their tax rate is, are more concerned about not needing to worry or stress about a variety of things. I can totally see why they are disenchanted with America and look longingly at Nordic countries or other places in Europe.
At the same time, I have multiple friends and business associates in countries like Belgium, France, and Norway who bemoan how hard it is to be an entrepreneur there and envy the hell out of the economic openness of the US, even at the expense of some of the benefits they enjoy where they are.
I’m not myopic or nationalist enough to think the US is DA BEST without any comparisons, and can acknowledge there are myriad issues with late stage capitalist. But it is still pretty hard to beat in terms of starting something from scratch and succeeding. Even the most desirable countries in Europe have so much more of a stacked deck if you’re not from generational money or government connected.
In general I agree with your assessment unless you get sick and need medical care, have a few children that get sick, want paternity/maternity leave, try to get an education to move up in status, or are forced into one of the poorer areas that are by far the most deadly of any westernized nation.
That being said you're right it's certainly easier for entrepreneurs here if the cards are dealt favorably. If you are not then I'd take my chances in a Western European country or Canada.
-
I always say that when we have more people exiting the USA vs. entering the USA on a monthly basis than I would question if we were still the greatest country in the world. People risk their lives to enter the USA and smart, wealthy people with ability to move to a "better" country seldom move.
-
In general I agree with your assessment unless you get sick and need medical care, have a few children that get sick, want paternity/maternity leave, try to get an education to move up in status, or are forced into one of the poorer areas that are by far the most deadly of any westernized nation.
That being said you're right it's certainly easier for entrepreneurs here if the cards are dealt favorably. If you are not then I'd take my chances in a Western European country or Canada.
I’m not talking about medical care and paternity/maternity leave is not a consideration if you’re starting/running a business. I’m talking strictly business opportunity situations.
There is a reason people with business/entrepreneurial aspirations come here. Canada is often easier to migrate to, but not as business friendly. And Western Europe, forget about it. Maybe if you want a good stable office job with benefits, but not if you want to set out on your own.
-
I always say that when we have more people exiting the USA vs. entering the USA on a monthly basis than I would question if we were still the greatest country in the world. People risk their lives to enter the USA and smart, wealthy people with ability to move to a "better" country seldom move.
Family and friends are a strong pull. Hell I moved back despite having both those in Ireland and England because they weren't my immediate family or my MU buddies. I think if you gave an average person a survey whether they'd move countries if there weren't those barriers then you may find the results surprising.
There's also the task of sponsorship/visa which isn't easy, even getting a job in Ireland, with citizenship, is next to impossible as long as you're still in the states.
I agree about the general point about incoming vs leaving but also need to look at that same concept for other countries as well. The best and brightest all over the westernized world rarely leave their stable environments
-
I’m not talking about medical care and paternity/maternity leave is not a consideration if you’re starting/running a business. I’m talking strictly business opportunity situations.
There is a reason people with business/entrepreneurial aspirations come here. Canada is often easier to migrate to, but not as business friendly. And Western Europe, forget about it. Maybe if you want a good stable office job with benefits, but not if you want to set out on your own.
I think as far as succes for entrepreneurs goes Medicare is a valid discussion. All it takes is one car accident on the way to a meeting, one fall off a ladder on a work site, etc and your dream here is set back ages compared to other nations. You're absolutely right I shouldn't have included maternity/paternity.
Again I agree with you that it's an easier path to success but it's much more easily ruined as well.
-
Personally, I'll take social security and high(er) taxes over business opportunity. Maybe that's because I'm just a middle class healthcare worker vs entrepreneur though.
-
What about other countries that have more people entering vs. exiting? Is the US still better or is that a tie?
I always say that when we have more people exiting the USA vs. entering the USA on a monthly basis than I would question if we were still the greatest country in the world. People risk their lives to enter the USA and smart, wealthy people with ability to move to a "better" country seldom move.
-
Billy shouldn't act like a fragile white man so often then. And he shouldn't make stuff up just because he needs to fit a narrative. Kudos to you for coming to his defense, though.
"fragile." Sure. And you're supposed to be older than me.
My wife was told she shouldn't have pressed charges against the dude who assaulted her because what he did (punching her in the back of her head) was a result of "white supremacy." She was also told she only married me because she'd been forced into the "model minority myth" and that marrying a white guy was white supremacy making her try to be "white adjacent." No, these were not white people saying these things. She and her family are not wary of the people the Kendi's of the world say they should be scared of (it helps sell books though), and CNN admitted they squashed stories about attacks on Asian Americans because they didn't want to piss off BLM. This is what is actually going on outside of your sheltered existence.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/wilfred-reilly/crime-against-asians-isnt-due-to-white-supremacy/
I seem to also remember you doubting the violence my city deals with nightly and trying to deflect blame to "boogaloos."
-
"fragile." Sure. And you're supposed to be older than me.
My wife was told she shouldn't have pressed charges against the dude who assaulted her because what he did (punching her in the back of her head) was a result of "white supremacy." She was also told she only married me because she'd been forced into the "model minority myth" and that marrying a white guy was white supremacy making her try to be "white adjacent." No, these were not white people saying these things. She and her family are not wary of the people the Kendi's of the world say they should be scared of (it helps sell books though), and CNN admitted they squashed stories about attacks on Asian Americans because they didn't want to piss off BLM. This is what is actually going on outside of your sheltered existence.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/wilfred-reilly/crime-against-asians-isnt-due-to-white-supremacy/
I seem to also remember you doubting the violence my city deals with nightly and trying to deflect blame to "boogaloos."
Can you provide the CNN admitting this source? Because after scanning that article I didn't see a mention of them admitting to burying anything. Lots of interesting numbers though
-
Someone tell Billy that rocketsurgeon has hacked his account.
-
I don't hate America by any stretch. But I don't think it's the greatest country in the world. Finland gets high marks in a lot of rankings, but I wouldn't want to live there.
I think there has been a national mythos for a long time that the USA does everything better, and that we are some sort of model for what the rest of the world should aspire to be. Are there a lot of awesome things about America? Yes! Do we sniff our own farts? Oh hell yes.
Good dodge. Didn't answer my question though.
-
"fragile." Sure. And you're supposed to be older than me.
My wife was told she shouldn't have pressed charges against the dude who assaulted her because what he did (punching her in the back of her head) was a result of "white supremacy." She was also told she only married me because she'd been forced into the "model minority myth" and that marrying a white guy was white supremacy making her try to be "white adjacent." No, these were not white people saying these things. She and her family are not wary of the people the Kendi's of the world say they should be scared of (it helps sell books though), and CNN admitted they squashed stories about attacks on Asian Americans because they didn't want to piss off BLM. This is what is actually going on outside of your sheltered existence.
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/wilfred-reilly/crime-against-asians-isnt-due-to-white-supremacy/
I seem to also remember you doubting the violence my city deals with nightly and trying to deflect blame to "boogaloos."
The dopes who told your wife those things were wrong. Very sorry she had to go through what she did, and I feel for her, you and your entire family.
The rest of it ... we'll save for another debate another time.
-
Good dodge. Didn't answer my question though.
Zigs, there isn't a good answer. Obviously, my family and friends are here. I could easily live in more than a few countries around the world. Canada is a wonderful place, Costa Rica and Panama are beautiful, and Europe is full of culture. I've never been to Australia or New Zeeland, but they are objectively gorgeous and NZ especially lines up with my values. Each place has its strengths and weaknesses. The USA has a ton of strengths, but some glaring weaknesses as well. I live here and I'm probably staying (for a while at least), but I've also looked into expat lifestyle around the world. My original point is that too many Americans fall into the trap of thinking that the US does everything the best. It's been pounded into us every day from when we were children... and a lot of Americans truly believe that America is the pinnacle and nothing could be better anywhere else. That is why I said we sniff our own farts.
-
hards
Of course there other great places in the world but there is a reason why 99.9% of Americans chose not to move elsewhere. Many people use family as the biggest reason and I find that to be a poor excuse. People leave family behind, risk their lives to come America every hour of every day of the year.
Over the past year I have read a lot of posts on here that judge people, talk about white privilege and a ton of other big generalizations and I have stayed out of those discussions. That said, and I speak from true experience, that I find the whole expat experience to be one of the most arrogant and selfish lifestyles out there. The vast majority of expats, and I know a lot, often take advantage of their new found homes. Many look at as a visit to Epcot and seldom embrace their new home country. It becomes an adventure, something tell friends and family about and in many cases it is done for financial reasons.
There is no doubt there are exceptions to the rule and many do embrace their new home. Moving to a new country is a privilege that we as American's are able to do. You can pick up and move tomorrow, though you likely will not do so. Talk is cheap and many people risk their lives, leave their family and actually do pull the trigger to move elsewhere for a better life. I am not bashing you on this topic and only addressed you because of your post.
For the record, I completely admire anyone that makes a decision to move anywhere in the world if it is for the right reason. I do not find a junket to India for three years to make more money or go backbacking is moving out of the USA. It is either a nice financial gain or an adventure to tell your grandkids about down the road. Again, I literally am friends with, been friends with or have done business with hundreds of expats throughout SE Asia and I find most to be taking advantage of an opportunity presented to them. That is great, but not leaving the USA because they found paradise elsewhere.
-
Goose,
Just responding to your first paragraph here. There's plenty of countries where people do that. Refugees wash up on the shores in the mediterranean countries from the Middle East and Africa all the time. There's similar mass refugee exodus from Syria and other countries all the time. The 99.9 makes me wonder what rate the other compatible countries stay in their country.
I guess my point is if you come from a place where your backs against the wall it makes it easier to leave your family and friends than if you're in a stable spot so we shouldn't be comparing poor emigrants to your average American. We should be comparing your average English or French or German person to your average American.
-
hards
Of course there other great places in the world but there is a reason why 99.9% of Americans chose not to move elsewhere. Many people use family as the biggest reason and I find that to be a poor excuse. People leave family behind, risk their lives to come America every hour of every day of the year.
Over the past year I have read a lot of posts on here that judge people, talk about white privilege and a ton of other big generalizations and I have stayed out of those discussions. That said, and I speak from true experience, that I find the whole expat experience to be one of the most arrogant and selfish lifestyles out there. The vast majority of expats, and I know a lot, often take advantage of their new found homes. Many look at as a visit to Epcot and seldom embrace their new home country. It becomes an adventure, something tell friends and family about and in many cases it is done for financial reasons.
There is no doubt there are exceptions to the rule and many do embrace their new home. Moving to a new country is a privilege that we as American's are able to do. You can pick up and move tomorrow, though you likely will not do so. Talk is cheap and many people risk their lives, leave their family and actually do pull the trigger to move elsewhere for a better life. I am not bashing you on this topic and only addressed you because of your post.
For the record, I completely admire anyone that makes a decision to move anywhere in the world if it is for the right reason. I do not find a junket to India for three years to make more money or go backbacking is moving out of the USA. It is either a nice financial gain or an adventure to tell your grandkids about down the road. Again, I literally am friends with, been friends with or have done business with hundreds of expats throughout SE Asia and I find most to be taking advantage of an opportunity presented to them. That is great, but not leaving the USA because they found paradise elsewhere.
I don't disagree, but I would mention that Americans generally live comfortable lives so there isn't much motivation to emigrate. You can say that family is a poor excuse, but for me it is the primary excuse. If I choose to be an expat I plan to do it when I'm retired and my parents are gone. I have no children nor do I anticipate any. And in my defense, you don't really know me. But you may have noticed (or not since you probably don't read everything I write... and God help you if you do!) I value other people and their culture quite a bit. When I travel, I do my best to read up about local culture and abide by their customs and practices. Furthermore, I'm not talking about renouncing my American citizenship. I'd be much more interested in dual citizenship for stability reasons. I can't imagine growing old in the US year round, and my life goal is to not do that.
People immigrating to America typically have little to no upward mobility in their home country. They're moving here for a chance at a brighter future. But I'm sure you realize that people who are quite well off anywhere in the world have little desire to move from where they live. Wealthy people move towards opportunity or away from repression, naturally. The US is a great place to start that journey, especially for immigrants with a strong work ethic.
And despite what you may think, I do value your words and experiences. We don't see eye to eye on a lot of topics, but that is probably generational more than anything. Thank you for your POV.
-
I'd be much more interested in dual citizenship for stability reasons.
As long as you don't have pride as a national of that other country right?
-
As long as you don't have pride as a national of that other country right?
I promise not to run around my dual citizenship country as a walking American stereotype! ;D
-
I promise not to run around my dual citizenship country as a walking American stereotype! ;D
Damn right, and if you end up in Canada and so much as post one "Tim hortons > Dunkin" I'll be here to tell you to cut the Canadian pride act!
-
hards
To be clear, I chose not to relocate my family to China 25 years ago 100% because of family, at least that is what I thought was the reason. My point is nothing in life is free of sacrifices and I do believe family is a built in crutch. To be honest, I thought about my decision not to move to China 1000 times over the years and deep down it really never was 100% because of family. In my heart I knew if I moved my family to China that I was going there for life , or most of my life, and that was the biggest reason for not doing it. If we had moved (wife and four kids under age of 8) it would have been purely a selfish choice on my part and that is why it never happened.
-
I do wonder how many more “successful” Americans might leave the US for more than just a year or two, if not for the expat tax situation. I know it’s factored heavily into a few possible relocations for me in the past. The appeal of a place like HK or Dubai is lessened when you’re still gonna pay the same rate
-
jwags
Any person that is wealthy enough, and has the will or desire, to chase better tax laws are doing so already. I have always believed that too many people outsmart themselves and relocating for taxes falls into that camp for me. If you have fxxk you money do you really need to get out of dodge for some tax breaks? Corporations are a different deal and I get their motive to dodge taxes. One lesson I always remembered from my Dad was him saying every April 15th "I feel badly for anyone not paying taxes today".
-
jwags
Any person that is wealthy enough, and has the will or desire, to chase better tax laws are doing so already. I have always believed that too many people outsmart themselves and relocating for taxes falls into that camp for me. If you have fxxk you money do you really need to get out of dodge for some tax breaks? Corporations are a different deal and I get their motive to dodge taxes. One lesson I always remembered from my Dad was him saying every April 15th "I feel badly for anyone not paying taxes today".
Oh, I wouldn't leave for financial reasons.
-
jwags
Any person that is wealthy enough, and has the will or desire, to chase better tax laws are doing so already. I have always believed that too many people outsmart themselves and relocating for taxes falls into that camp for me. If you have fxxk you money do you really need to get out of dodge for some tax breaks? Corporations are a different deal and I get their motive to dodge taxes. One lesson I always remembered from my Dad was him saying every April 15th "I feel badly for anyone not paying taxes today".
Fair enough. I don't think its a sole motivation, but it was a consideration when I debated a strategic move to HK a few years back. I decided against it for myriad reasons, but if I had tax benefits (for more than just the company I would have formed there) for myself and the American associate that would have likely come with me, it may have been a more persuasive situation. Its just a very different consideration set than my friends who are Brits or Belgians or South African that dont have citizen based taxation. I have a pair of associates who moved from Antwerp to Dubai, partially for shorter flights to Asia, but mostly because they could be way more aggressive and lean in their new business venture when they kept way more of their take home each month and used a chunk of those savings to come back to Belgium monthly to see their friends and family.
I believe the credit is $105K, so there is some benefit, but you can be making well over that and still paying US taxes and be far from FU money. I think its silly when you're chasing a few percentage points of state tax. But they were literally paying 50% income tax in Belgium vs 0% in UAE. Not a consideration for Americans.
-
I've not read the bill, but on face value this is a good thing and got solid bipartisan support
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/22/covid-19-hate-crime-bill-protect-asian-americans-passes-senate/7290109002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/22/covid-19-hate-crime-bill-protect-asian-americans-passes-senate/7290109002/)
Edit: guess who cast the only 'no' vote
-
I've not read the bill, but on face value this is a good thing and got solid bipartisan support
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/22/covid-19-hate-crime-bill-protect-asian-americans-passes-senate/7290109002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/22/covid-19-hate-crime-bill-protect-asian-americans-passes-senate/7290109002/)
Can't hurt! At least the powers-that-be recognize the problem and are trying to do something about it.
-
Not to go too off topic, and maybe its better in the other thread, but I saw a set of tweets actually complaining about this yesterday. Not for the reasons you might think.
Basically an executive order to protect Asian Americans (which is good). There has also been Biden EOs to protect transgender people (also good). But nothing to protect/address African Americans similarly.
I didn't dismiss it and at the time didn't have time to dig further into it, but it made me go "hmm?" This isn't supposed to be an attack on Biden, but more has nothing specifically been addressed cause its so widespread and almost a part of life, where similar actions to transgender and Asian Americans is more recent and out of the norm?
-
Not to go too off topic, and maybe its better in the other thread, but I saw a set of tweets actually complaining about this yesterday. Not for the reasons you might think.
Basically an executive order to protect Asian Americans (which is good). There has also been Biden EOs to protect transgender people (also good). But nothing to protect/address African Americans similarly.
I didn't dismiss it and at the time didn't have time to dig further into it, but it made me go "hmm?" This isn't supposed to be an attack on Biden, but more has nothing specifically been addressed cause its so widespread and almost a part of life, where similar actions to transgender and Asian Americans is more recent and out of the norm?
He's probably just Biden his time.
Jokes aside, yes, I also thought it was odd.
-
I've not read the bill, but on face value this is a good thing and got solid bipartisan support
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/22/covid-19-hate-crime-bill-protect-asian-americans-passes-senate/7290109002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/22/covid-19-hate-crime-bill-protect-asian-americans-passes-senate/7290109002/)
Edit: guess who cast the only 'no' vote
Josh, I cant think of hawley anyone who would be that stupid.
-
Not to go too off topic, and maybe its better in the other thread, but I saw a set of tweets actually complaining about this yesterday. Not for the reasons you might think.
Basically an executive order to protect Asian Americans (which is good). There has also been Biden EOs to protect transgender people (also good). But nothing to protect/address African Americans similarly.
I didn't dismiss it and at the time didn't have time to dig further into it, but it made me go "hmm?" This isn't supposed to be an attack on Biden, but more has nothing specifically been addressed cause its so widespread and almost a part of life, where similar actions to transgender and Asian Americans is more recent and out of the norm?
It will only be effective if it truly protects Asians and Asian Americans from ALL perpetrators of violence against them.
And, will it protect Asians and Asian Americans from discrimination in high school, honors programs, and college admissions? That's an area where they're also being targeted for discrimination.
-
It will only be effective if it truly protects Asians and Asian Americans from ALL perpetrators of violence against them.
And, will it protect Asians and Asian Americans from discrimination in high school, honors programs, and college admissions? That's an area where they're also being targeted for discrimination.
You seem awfully concerned about pointing out the the race of some perpetrators. Why is that so important to you.
Also, remind me how SFFA v. Harvard turned out.
-
You seem awfully concerned about pointing out the the race of some perpetrators. Why is that so important to you.
Also, remind me how SFFA v. Harvard turned out.
While I don't doubt a lot of Billy's anecdotal evidence that's turned him prejudiced I also have to say that SFFA was the most BS race lawsuit I think I've read about. Really hilarious
-
And, will it protect Asians and Asian Americans from discrimination in high school, honors programs, and college admissions? That's an area where they're also being targeted for discrimination.
Clearly, the answer is no.
-
an interesting article here (take it for what you will considering it's the NY Post):
https://nypost.com/2021/05/05/proud-boys-receiving-huge-asian-american-support-report-says/?utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter
There definitely is backlash in the Asian communities regarding crime statistics of perpetrators of hate crimes against those of Asian descent being ignored or suppressed (see: CNN) and Asian students being targeted for being too successful in school (e.g., the push to eliminate the SHSAT because too many Asians are getting into the eight specialized high schools despite being the poorest demographic in NYC and now the push in CA to eliminate advanced gifted programs and advanced math tracks because too many Asians kids are in it...without saying the quiet part out loud) but this seems quite far fetched for to me. If this is legit, well, it says more about the groups pushing Asians to hate groups like the Proud Boys than Asians themselves.
-
If this is legit, well, it says more about the groups pushing Asians to hate groups like the Proud Boys than Asians themselves.
No. You're responsible for your own reactions. I've been mugged by black people and didn't join a hate group. If you join organizations like that you are not pushed into it you are choosing to group people entirely together.