Investing Thread

[MU82]

Adidas, whose stock is already down about 25% this year, severed ties with anti-Semite Kanye West.

[Skatastrophy]

Adidas, whose stock is already down about 25% this year, severed ties with anti-Semite Kanye West.

When your founder is a nazi sympathizer you have to be sensitive to certain brand perception issues.

Edit, instead of just name-slinging... here's the story of when the founder of Adidas was on trial by the Allies for being a member of the SS/Gestapo. His wife and his brother both testified against him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Dassler#The_denazification_proceedings_and_the_family_rupture,_1946

[Jockey]

When your founder is a nazi sympathizer you have to be sensitive to certain brand perception issues.

it took six days after West boasted on a podcast that "I can literally say anti-semitic shyte and they cannot drop me" for Adidas to drop him.

Oh, and the founders were not nazi sympathizers - they were members of the Nazi Party.

[MU82]

When your founder is a nazi sympathizer you have to be sensitive to certain brand perception issues.

Edit, instead of just name-slinging... here's the story of when the founder of Adidas was on trial by the Allies for being a member of the SS/Gestapo. His wife and his brother both testified against him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Dassler#The_denazification_proceedings_and_the_family_rupture,_1946

If today's Adidas owners and management are Nazis, this matters.

Just the latest to drop "ye."

Being directly associated with a person who takes his or her anti-Semitic or racist thoughts public is usually a deal-killer.

[tower912]

He will get hired by a cable news channel.

[Skatastrophy]

If today's Adidas owners and management are Nazis, this matters.

Just the latest to drop "ye."

Being directly associated with a person who takes his or her anti-Semitic or racist thoughts public is usually a deal-killer.

My point is that the PR folks at Adidas + Puma are acutely aware of the crimes of their founders and do everything they can to distance themselves from that part of their shared history.

[MU82]

My point is that the PR folks at Adidas + Puma are acutely aware of the crimes of their founders and do everything they can to distance themselves from that part of their shared history.

Ah. Understood.

[MU82]

More, from the NYT's "DealBook," on how much $$$ Kanye is giving away by hating on Jews:

Adidas's move yesterday to immediately cut ties with Kanye West, now known as Ye, was a key moment in businesses wrangling with too-hot-to-handle provocateurs. New estimates show how much the rapper and designer's recent behavior, including antisemitic remarks and publicly wearing a shirt with a slogan tied to white supremacy, will cost him financially.

Here are three calculations of how much Ye stands to lose:

The Morningstar analyst David Swartz estimated that the Adidas-Yeezy partnership likely paid Ye in excess of $100 million a year. Overall, Swartz put the collaboration's value at up to $2 billion.

Forbes reckoned that Adidas-Yeezy accounted for $1.5 billion of Ye's net worth, and that its demise knocked his wealth down to $400 million.

Bloomberg reported that Adidas-Yeezy earned Ye over $500 million in royalty payments and marketing fees during the first four full years of the deal, through 2020.
Adidas is now indicating that it will sell existing Yeezy merchandise — only without the Yeezy branding. (The German sportswear giant said yesterday that it was the "sole owner" of all design rights to existing products that came out of the partnership.)

More shoes have dropped for Ye. Gap, whose partnership with him ended last month, said it was taking "immediate steps" to remove Yeezy Gap products from its stores and had shut down an affiliated website.

And two pro athletes — ​​​​Aaron Donald of the Los Angeles Rams and Jaylen Brown of the Boston Celtics — tweeted that they were cutting ties with Donda Sports, Ye's marketing agency.

But frankly, I'm glad he has the freedom to spew his hate and the willingness to do it so publicly. I want to know who the anti-Semites and racists and homophobes are.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

The guy is mentally ill and refuses to take his bi-polar medication.

That doesn't explain why roqqet continues to promote a slogan tied to white supremacy...or does it??

[rocket surgeon]

The guy is mentally ill and refuses to take his bi-polar medication.

That doesn't explain why roqqet continues to promote a slogan tied to white supremacy...or does it??

i'm not going to take the hit for this thread going off the rails, but when one of you guys take an unprovoked ad hominem shot at me, it needs to be addressed-

  everything you guys dislike or don't agree with is racist and/or white supremacy?  so, what lives do not matter to you smith?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

The guy is mentally ill and refuses to take his bi-polar medication.

That doesn't explain why roqqet continues to promote a slogan tied to white supremacy...or does it??

🐷🐷

[TSmith34, Inc.]

i'm not going to take the hit for this thread going off the rails, but when one of you guys take an unprovoked ad hominem shot at me, it needs to be addressed-

  everything you guys dislike or don't agree with is racist and/or white supremacy?  so, what lives do not matter to you smith?

I note that you have removed that portion of your signature line, so well done.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I note that you have removed that portion of your signature line, so well done.

🐷🐷

[rocky_warrior]

I think some folks here need to know the definition of "ad hominem" attack.  That would mean someone is attacking you, instead of your position.  But in rockets case, his ALM position is clearly being attacked.  Meanwhile, Kanye's mental stability is being attacked, but he didn't report the post.

Anyhow, back to investing.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I think some folks here need to know the definition of "ad hominem" attack.  That would mean someone is attacking you, instead of your position.  But in rockets case, his ALM position is clearly being attacked.  Meanwhile, Kanye's mental stability is being attacked, but he didn't report the post.

Anyhow, back to investing.

🤡🤡

[rocket surgeon]

I think some folks here need to know the definition of "ad hominem" attack.  That would mean someone is attacking you, instead of your position.  But in rockets case, his ALM position is clearly being attacked.  Meanwhile, Kanye's mental stability is being attacked, but he didn't report the post.

Anyhow, back to investing.

so what part of ALM is white superracist and which lives don't matter? 

[rocky_warrior]

so what part of ALM is white superracist and which lives don't matter?

Perhaps you are naive and actually don't understand the "all lives matter" phrase.  Here's some reading, in case you're actually willing to learn.
https://theconversation.com/why-is-it-so-offensive-to-say-all-lives-matter-153188

[The Sultan]

so what part of ALM is white superracist and which lives don't matter?

No one said "all lives matter" is white supremicist.

But read this...

https://againstprofphil.org/2020/06/26/the-pragmatics-of-saying-all-lives-matter-a-critique/

When we ask ourselves "Why are people saying that black lives matter?," we can see that it is being said to draw attention to the undervaluing of black people and their lives, to the disparate treatment at the hands of police and society more generally of black people and their lives, to under-reported and often buried instances of individual racism and violence, to the existence of structural racism and violence, etc. And people are saying that black lives matter at this moment, in this country, in response to specific events, to specific rhetoric, to specific facts.

When we ask ourselves "Why are people responding to the claim that black lives matter by saying that all lives matter?," we can see that the claim that all lives matter is being said as a challenge to the claim that black lives matter, as a way of pushing back against and drowning out the voices of those saying that black lives matter, as a way of (intentionally or unintentionally) muddying the conceptual waters and forcing listeners to choose whether it is all lives that matter or merely black lives (which, of course, is not what "black lives matter" means).

[TSmith34, Inc.]

so what part of ALM is white superracist and which lives don't matter?

Dude, that has been explained to you numerous times.

But again, I give you kudos for removing it.

[Babybluejeans]

Perhaps you are naive and actually don't understand the "all lives matter" phrase.  Here's some reading, in case you're actually willing to learn.
https://theconversation.com/why-is-it-so-offensive-to-say-all-lives-matter-153188

He isn't, which is why he takes cover from claims of racism under the shield of willful ignorance.

[rocket surgeon]

Perhaps you are naive and actually don't understand the "all lives matter" phrase.  Here's some reading, in case you're actually willing to learn.
https://theconversation.com/why-is-it-so-offensive-to-say-all-lives-matter-153188

ohhh rocky, i understand it completely.  perhaps it is the arrogance of some who believe they are the arbiter of the meaning of words.  perhaps it was the people who coined the term "black lives matter" knowing this (all lives matter) was going to be an immediate counterpoint.  so they had to proactively redefine it and then stamp it with the racism label to protect their fallacy.  all lives matter does include black people.  i know you and sully sent me your versions of why "all lives matter" is naughty and there are volumes of everyone's opinions on the same.  the reason i push back a little is because i believe BLM as an organization is a fraud which ripped off the very people they purport to support. 

after reading a little bit of the stuff you guys sent me, i will remove my ALM sticker before the end of the day out of respect for those of you who so passionately follow the leads of the vocal minority.  for me personally, i still follow the words of a man who was more respected than any of the so called african american leaders of today.  MLK had no agenda other than to truly unite people. he truly wanted a colorblind society of people judged by their character and their actions.  BLM has surely not lived up to anything near that

i realize this is way off topic, but you can thank your friend smith for making one of his many wise *** remarks and unprovoked shots revealing once again, his lack of self control.  i do not ignore anyone

[Skatastrophy]

Anyway.

Predictions on the end of the market pullback vs the end of the recession?

Market pullback: December is the beginning of the upswing
Recession: September is when the economy turns around

I guessed that covid would only last a year, so I was wrong on that one just like I'll be wrong on this one.

"Riots are the voices of the unheard" - MLK

[JWags85]

More, from the NYT's "DealBook," on how much $$$ Kanye is giving away by hating on Jews:

Adidas's move yesterday to immediately cut ties with Kanye West, now known as Ye, was a key moment in businesses wrangling with too-hot-to-handle provocateurs. New estimates show how much the rapper and designer's recent behavior, including antisemitic remarks and publicly wearing a shirt with a slogan tied to white supremacy, will cost him financially.

Here are three calculations of how much Ye stands to lose:

The Morningstar analyst David Swartz estimated that the Adidas-Yeezy partnership likely paid Ye in excess of $100 million a year. Overall, Swartz put the collaboration's value at up to $2 billion.

Forbes reckoned that Adidas-Yeezy accounted for $1.5 billion of Ye's net worth, and that its demise knocked his wealth down to $400 million.

Bloomberg reported that Adidas-Yeezy earned Ye over $500 million in royalty payments and marketing fees during the first four full years of the deal, through 2020.
Adidas is now indicating that it will sell existing Yeezy merchandise — only without the Yeezy branding. (The German sportswear giant said yesterday that it was the "sole owner" of all design rights to existing products that came out of the partnership.)

More shoes have dropped for Ye. Gap, whose partnership with him ended last month, said it was taking "immediate steps" to remove Yeezy Gap products from its stores and had shut down an affiliated website.

And two pro athletes — ​​​​Aaron Donald of the Los Angeles Rams and Jaylen Brown of the Boston Celtics — tweeted that they were cutting ties with Donda Sports, Ye's marketing agency.

But frankly, I'm glad he has the freedom to spew his hate and the willingness to do it so publicly. I want to know who the anti-Semites and racists and homophobes are.

The best twist in this saga, and I saw "best" in jest, Kanye showed up unannounced at Skechers HQ and wanted to work with them as another shoe option...except he totally failed to investigate and/or realize that the family that started and still runs Skechers is named...Greenberg.  WHOOPS (Robert Greenberg also started LA Gear, shout out Robb Logterman!)

This whole thing has been a bummer cause I have a pair of Yeezys Boosts I really like as a workout and travel shoe, but I owe it to my Jewish wife, in-laws, and half Jewish son to not support blatant Anti-Semitism.

Its also a bummer as it truly is sad.  Kanye at his best is out there and bombastic, but this is clearly someone mentally ill/unstable who needs help.  I don't think its any coincidence this happened after a long association with a Kardashian clan who leaves a trail of broken people in their wake.

[rocky_warrior]

the reason i push back a little is because i believe BLM as an organization is a fraud which ripped off the very people they purport to support. 

That's you're reason?  I mean, (almost) nobody saying "Black Lives Matter" means "hey, yo, the Black Lives Matter Organization is really cool!", instead they're trying to convey that systemic racism still exists, and black people are disproportionally affected socially, legally, and economically.  Anyhow, I appreciate that you've read some more, and are making changes.

Predictions on the end of the market pullback vs the end of the recession?

Market pullback: December is the beginning of the upswing
Recession: September is when the economy turns around

I think the end of the market pullback is essentially already here.  We dipped a little below the July June lows (but not much), appear to be rebounding.  Perhaps, most important, Jobs & Consumers seem stable, energy prices are getting lower (globally), and there's a chance Putin won't launch nukes.

But that's the wildcard...not just Putin but the global economic environment.  And honestly, the past month I haven't been paying attention globally other than to know England is being run by a bunch of idiots.  Hopefully they get their sh*t straight.

[MU82]

I'm not convinced the pullback is over, rocky. It's the third week of earnings season and there have been a few nasty ones. Meta (Facebook) today after the bell ... ugh!

But who knows ... you could be right. If we're in a recession (and many economists say we are), it's been the weirdest recession ever.

Anyhoo, whether we've hit a market bottom or not, it doesn't really change much for long-term investors.