MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: DoctorV on March 21, 2021, 11:44:24 AM
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I’ve seen the numbers and I understand the hesitation.
I’m not quite sure if he will be able to recruit at the elite level necessary.
I’m fairly certain that if he can he will succeed at Marquette and we would all be very happy with him and his product.
He’s the right man at the right time.
He’s the perfect age.
He’s a local guy who’s ok with staying at one place for a long long time.
He’s got the Jesuit background and experience.
He seems like a good guy that runs a clean ship.
He coaches with an intense passion and he sure as hell knows how to coach an amazing defense.
His guys seem to improve tremendously and play like they would run through a wall for him.
He’s no sure thing, no one is. He’s managed to do a heckuva lot with the little he’s been given at Loyola, and he would be given much more at Marquette.
I’ve become enamored with the idea of a big name like John Beilein or even Rick Pitino because of the prospect of lightning in a bottle and immediate success, but the more I think about it the more I realize that Porter Moser is the guy Marquette needs and Marquette is the step up that he deserves.
Come on down Porter and let’s get to work.
We Are Marquette.
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I’ve seen the numbers and I understand the hesitation.
I’m not quite sure if he will be able to recruit at the elite level necessary.
I’m fairly certain that if he can he will succeed at Marquette and we would all be very happy with him and his product.
He’s the right man at the right time.
He’s the perfect age.
He’s a local guy who’s ok with staying at one place for a long long time.
He’s got the Jesuit background and experience.
He seems like a good guy that runs a clean ship.
He coaches with an intense passion and he sure as hell knows how to coach an amazing defense.
His guys seem to improve tremendously and play like they would run through a wall for him.
He’s no sure thing, no one is. He’s managed to do a heckuva lot with the little he’s been given at Loyola, and he would be given much more at Marquette.
I’ve become enamored with the idea of a big name like John Beilein or even Rick Pitino because of the prospect of lightning in a bottle and immediate success, but the more I think about it the more I realize that Porter Moser is the guy Marquette needs and Marquette is the step up that he deserves.
Come on down Porter and let’s get to work.
We Are Marquette.
Will this change if Loyola blows a double-digit lead this afternoon?
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Will this change if Loyola blows a double-digit lead this afternoon?
Honest question: After watching 15 minutes of Loyola vs Illinois do you have any doubt that Moser would coach circles around Wojo?
They may lose, sure - Illinois is loaded AND well coached. But this Loyola team is VERY well coached. Period.
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NO......
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Honest question: After watching 15 minutes of Loyola vs Illinois do you have any doubt that Moser would coach circles around Wojo?
They may lose, sure - Illinois is loaded AND well coached. But this Loyola team is VERY well coached. Period.
Zero, Lenny.
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This Loyola team woulda kicked Marquette's ass this season.
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This Loyola team woulda kicked Marquette's ass this season.
Absolutely
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Honest question: After watching 15 minutes of Loyola vs Illinois do you have any doubt that Moser would coach circles around Wojo?
They may lose, sure - Illinois is loaded AND well coached. But this Loyola team is VERY well coached. Period.
No, but being a better game coach than Wojo shouldn't be where Marquette sets the bar for its next hire.
I'm pretty sure no here is questioning Moser's coaching ability.
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This Loyola team would have been near the top of the BE this season. I get some of the hesitancy around Moser, but this is a really well coached team and the talent isn’t terrible by any stretch.
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Agree Loyola would’ve beat MU this year. They are very disciplined. They take care of the ball. Love their defense. Notice their crisp passing too. Passes are delivered in rhythm at the correct spot for the receiver. MU passing this season was terrible - hardly ever spot on.
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Honest question: After watching 15 minutes of Loyola vs Illinois do you have any doubt that Moser would coach circles around Wojo?
They may lose, sure - Illinois is loaded AND well coached. But this Loyola team is VERY well coached. Period.
We don't need Moser to coach circles around Wojo, Lenny. Wojo is yesterday's news. We need to figure out if Moser can coach circles around the 10 other Big East coaches.
He made a a pretty good case in the first half today. Loyola got a good look at the basket on almost every possession: wide-open 3s, paint touches, high-percentage shots, excellent passes, solid screens. And on defense, they are making a very, very talented Illinois team work.
I am looking forward to seeing the adjustments both Moser and Underwood make for the second half.
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No, but being a better game coach than Wojo shouldn't be where Marquette sets the bar for its next hire.
I'm pretty sure no here is questioning Moser's coaching ability.
He’s not just better, he’s WAY better. I doubt they’ll hold on, they’re seriously outmanned. But their offensive and defensive game plan (and its execution) were a thing of beauty in that first half.
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This game is why I didn't think Illinois would escape the first weekend. Loyola looks good, but this is a PERFECT matchup for them. Everything they do is exactly what kills Illinois. Seriously, look at the Haslametrics page:
https://haslametrics.com/ratings2.php?yr=&tid=735
Moser has a good team this year. He had a good team in 2018. What happened in between? What about the rest of his career? He's fine, but behind Smart & Gates, IMO.
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This game is why I didn't think Illinois would escape the first weekend. Loyola looks good, but this is a PERFECT matchup for them. Everything they do is exactly what kills Illinois. Seriously, look at the Haslametrics page:
https://haslametrics.com/ratings2.php?yr=&tid=735
Moser has a good team this year. He had a good team in 2018. What happened in between? What about the rest of his career? He's fine, but behind Smart & Gates, IMO.
Yea Illinois is a perfect matchup for them. This is the same Loyola team that got handled completely by Wisconsin and lost to Richmond. He’s a very good coach, he’s not a complete slam dunk
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Yea Illinois is a perfect matchup for them. This is the same Loyola team that got handled completely by Wisconsin and lost to Richmond. He’s a very good coach, he’s not a complete slam dunk
True. And Texas is the same team that got handled by Abilene Christian a few hours ago and has won 5 fewer NCAA tournament games than Loyola has the last 6 years.
All bad matchups for Texas and good matchups for Loyola?
I seriously don't know the answer to that question. Maybe Shaka's just super unlucky and Moser is the luckiest man around.
Looking forward to this second half.
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Yea Illinois is a perfect matchup for them. This is the same Loyola team that got handled completely by Wisconsin and lost to Richmond. He’s a very good coach, he’s not a complete slam dunk
Getting two assistants that are "great recruiters" and bring an assistant or two that knows his "system and culture"......And you do have a slam dunk......
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in all seriousness, I think Moser is the perfect guy...for Loyola. I like him and am a big fan of us and hope he hits bank and has great success at Loyola. We are in a position, at least for the moment, that we appear to have higher level options and we should pursue all of them. As I said about Wojo last year, aside from MU or DePaul, who else is chasing after Moser. I want to chase guys the big boys chase and not pick a guy because he is a great guy, local guy and spent time with Rick.
I strongly believe that MU might, and I say might, be able to land a much better option this time around. That could change in two days, but right now it sounds that there may be real interest from better options.
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This game is why I didn't think Illinois would escape the first weekend. Loyola looks good, but this is a PERFECT matchup for them. Everything they do is exactly what kills Illinois. Seriously, look at the Haslametrics page:
https://haslametrics.com/ratings2.php?yr=&tid=735
Moser has a good team this year. He had a good team in 2018. What happened in between? What about the rest of his career? He's fine, but behind Smart & Gates, IMO.
Smart I’ll give you.
Gates I don’t understand. He had two “good” years, but neither of those were as good as Mosers good years. The volume isn’t there and I don’t quite get why he’s all of a sudden considered an elite can’t miss coach. He’s not what shaka was when he went to Texas.
Maybe I’m missing something on Gates but I’m not sure what it is I’m missing
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Will this change if Loyola blows a double-digit lead this afternoon?
Actually I think I would prefer if the Illini come back and pull off a win because the MU can get on the phone sooner.
Also another super deep run by Loyola would make Moser much more desirable to other programs
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Surely Moser has to be a clear cut favorite of all the names bandied around here, simply because he "covets" the job as somebody reported and At very least, he is the best fit with his experience and with the possibility to be attained of the names bandisd. Question would be, can MU even land him, because bigger programs may already be whispering to him.
The guy can coach. So now let the naysayers chirp.
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True. And Texas is the same team that got handled by Abilene Christian a few hours ago and has won 5 fewer NCAA tournament games than Loyola has the last 6 years.
All bad matchups for Texas and good matchups for Loyola?
I seriously don't know the answer to that question. Maybe Shaka's just super unlucky and Moser is the luckiest man around.
Looking forward to this second half.
Abilene was always a terrible matchup for Texas. The WSJ upset index had Abilene as the #1 potential upset in the first round, heck even I mentioned as soon as the lines came out that Abilene at +9 looked great. I’m not saying I predicted they’d outright win, but there was definitely signs there based on similar type defenses Texas played in the regular season.
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Smart I’ll give you.
Gates I don’t understand. He had two “good” years, but neither of those were as good as Mosers good years. The volume isn’t there and I don’t quite get why he’s all of a sudden considered an elite can’t miss coach. He’s not what shaka was when he went to Texas.
Maybe I’m missing something on Gates but I’m not sure what it is I’m missing
Gates is a high ceiling type of candidate. You could be buying low on a guy who has a great trajectory up. It’s a risk, no doubt.
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He’s not just better, he’s WAY better. I doubt they’ll hold on, they’re seriously outmanned. But their offensive and defensive game plan (and its execution) were a thing of beauty in that first half.
LT: Is Moser a better coach?
P: Yes, he's a better coach
LT: Wrong! He's WAY better.
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DoctorV
Moser is not an unknown commodity and top programs have not been knocking down his door the past couple of seasons. Some guys are great fits and certain schools and I think Loyola is perfect for him. I hope he wins out this season and is the toast of Chicago and returns to Loyola to defend his NC. That would be great story.
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in all seriousness, I think Moser is the perfect guy...for Loyola. I like him and am a big fan of us and hope he hits bank and has great success at Loyola. We are in a position, at least for the moment, that we appear to have higher level options and we should pursue all of them. As I said about Wojo last year, aside from MU or DePaul, who else is chasing after Moser. I want to chase guys the big boys chase and not pick a guy because he is a great guy, local guy and spent time with Rick.
I strongly believe that MU might, and I say might, be able to land a much better option this time around. That could change in two days, but right now it sounds that there may be real interest from better options.
I used to think this way too, but I think I’ve come to the conclusion that Moser wouldn’t be a “settle” option and that he has advantages, some of which I listed above, that the big names don’t.
St John’s was interested recently according to reports, and my guess is several more high programs will be interested this time around.
There are times in life where the right answer is the obvious one that’s staring you in the face, and that’s what I think this scenario with Moser is.
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This game is why I didn't think Illinois would escape the first weekend. Loyola looks good, but this is a PERFECT matchup for them. Everything they do is exactly what kills Illinois. Seriously, look at the Haslametrics page:
https://haslametrics.com/ratings2.php?yr=&tid=735
Moser has a good team this year. He had a good team in 2018. What happened in between? What about the rest of his career? He's fine, but behind Smart & Gates, IMO.
C'mon Btew. Smart would be a possibility, but what about his cost, and could he even be attracted here?
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Porter Moser should be the first, second and third call made by Marquette in its search for the next coach. According to Jeff Goodman Moser “covets” the job. If he hasn’t proven enough with these recent NCAA tourney performances, you simply will never be convinced. This guy is the real deal and I’d love to see him on the MU sideline!
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Actually I think I would prefer if the Illini come back and pull off a win because the MU can get on the phone sooner.
Also another super deep run by Loyola would make Moser much more desirable to other programs
If MU admin has any smarts, they are already backchanneling talking to Mosers confidants.
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Smart I’ll give you.
Gates I don’t understand. He had two “good” years, but neither of those were as good as Mosers good years. The volume isn’t there and I don’t quite get why he’s all of a sudden considered an elite can’t miss coach. He’s not what shaka was when he went to Texas.
Maybe I’m missing something on Gates but I’m not sure what it is I’m missing
We know Gates can recruit. He was a great recruiter at FSU for teams we would love to emulate. Short track record, but his 151-spot improvement in kenpom from year 1 to year 2 is massive.
Like Goose said, I think Moser is perfect for where he's at. I'm not sure he's a HM coach.
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Might be a case of “don’t overthink it stupid”. Hopefully he’s not just leaking that to Goodman for a bargaining chip though.
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Getting two assistants that are "great recruiters" and bring an assistant or two that knows his "system and culture"......And you do have a slam dunk......
And those assistants are just hanging on trees? Dude plays slow down, grind ball (albeit very well coached) and has never coached at the highest level. The assumption that he will just bring in stellar recruiters and great assistants to make the leap is a big stretch.
Every one raving about Moser will be tearing out their hair when all the recruits and talent leave and MU averages 55 pts a game in this first 2 rough years of a rebuild. Nobody in our system signed up to play UVA style basketball
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brad
Brian Wardle covets the MU job, Tony Barone coveted the MU job, as did Dick Vercase and I am glad MU did not hire any of these guys. There have been countless guys chase this job over the past forty years and there will be more down the line. Hire the best guy when you have a chance.
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Those guys did covet the job, but they don’t have the resume of Porter Moser! I also think this guy would be in for the long haul. I don’t want to worry about the next coach using us as a “stepping stone.”
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I strongly believe that MU might, and I say might, be able to land a much better option this time around. That could change in two days, but right now it sounds that there may be real interest from better options.
Who???
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Please hire Moser.
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Who???
SS.
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Yes I’m being a bit of a prisoner of the moment, but between watching his adjustments vs Tech and this gameplan/execution today Moser should be our top candidate.
Also for the record if we hire Crean I’m out
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Honest question: After watching 15 minutes of Loyola vs Illinois do you have any doubt that Moser would coach circles around Wojo?
They may lose, sure - Illinois is loaded AND well coached. But this Loyola team is VERY well coached. Period.
Agree 100%. Loyola players are well coached.
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Yes I’m being a bit of a prisoner of the moment, but between watching his adjustments vs Tech and this gameplan/execution today Moser should be our top candidate.
Also for the record if we hire Crean I’m out
😂😂
Moser is my pick as well.
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Are you guys actually not watching.....What the result of "real coaching" does for whatever talent you have......This is a collection of 3 stars that are giving Illinois everything it can handle......
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brad
Brian Wardle covets the MU job, Tony Barone coveted the MU job, as did Dick Vercase and I am glad MU did not hire any of these guys. There have been countless guys chase this job over the past forty years and there will be more down the line. Hire the best guy when you have a chance.
C'mon Goose. Hope that is true but there are not too many reasonable ones out there. Who do you think they would be?
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Yea Illinois is a perfect matchup for them. This is the same Loyola team that got handled completely by Wisconsin and lost to Richmond. He’s a very good coach, he’s not a complete slam dunk
NO one is a complete slam dunk. NO one is perfect. We need to be reasonable.
If Stan and Dwayne did all the heavy lifting in terms of recruiting, what did Wojo contribute other than hugging players that underachieved?
Moser or Shaka
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😂😂
Moser is my pick as well.
Please tell me your info on Crean didn’t sound super firm. Please??
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Moser is a better coach than Smart or Gates, and it isn't even a debate. Arguing otherwise is great comedy.
Moser would be a grand slam.
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How many people drooling over Moser “coveting” the MU job according to second or third hand media sources made fun of Crean and “It’s Indiana!”
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Only problem with Gates compared to Moser is the lack of track record and final four.
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There is ZERO chance Marquette brings Crean back. Z-E-R-O. Why is anyone worried about that guy coming back? It’s not happening. Lol
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Moser is a better coach than Smart or Gates, and it isn't even a debate. Arguing otherwise is great comedy.
Moser would be a grand slam.
Determining Moser is a great coach on the basis of 2 good seasons or even 1 good game is also great comedy. What about the last 2 years? What about all the years before the unexpected Final 4 run?
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There is ZERO chance Marquette brings Crean back. Z-E-R-O. Why is anyone worried about that guy coming back? It’s not happening. Lol
Thank you. This is what I needed to read
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There is ZERO chance Marquette brings Crean back. Z-E-R-O. Why is anyone worried about that guy coming back? It’s not happening. Lol
I don't think it will happen but based on what I've heard it certainly isn't zero percent.
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Looks like he’s about to add a sweet 16 to his record. Why is this even a conversation anymore?
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IF we can get Moser, go get him.
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Determining Moser is a great coach on the basis of 2 good seasons or even 1 good game is also great comedy. What about the last 2 years? What about all the years before the unexpected Final 4 run?
With respect, Brew - you continue to use Moser's record at ISU as why he is not a higher tier candidate. Can't it be possible, that he is a better coach now, today, BECAUSE he failed at ISU?
Moser's teams have finished 1st or 2nd every year in the MVC. Why do you continue to refer to "what else has he done at Loyola"? He has built Loyola into the new Wichita State.
We can disagree, but Moser has a stronger resume than Smart (who continues to underperform at Texas, given the resources) and Gates, who you are basing off of one single year.
Moser would be an outstanding coach at Marquette for many reasons. But he is a much stronger candidate than Shaka or Gates.
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Determining Moser is a great coach on the basis of 2 good seasons or even 1 good game is also great comedy. What about the last 2 years? What about all the years before the unexpected Final 4 run?
A first and second place finish in the MVC? It's not like Loyola fell off a cliff those two seasons. You make is sound like they were a bottom half team in 19 and 20.
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Honest question: After watching 15 minutes of Loyola vs Illinois do you have any doubt that Moser would coach circles around Wojo?
They may lose, sure - Illinois is loaded AND well coached. But this Loyola team is VERY well coached. Period.
Watching him this year, he'd wipe the floor with Wojo.
Watching him the two years before that I think I'd have a different answer.
He's hot and cold. Either massively over performs or massively underperforms. Maybe with better resources he evens out. Im not sure
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Determining Moser is a great coach on the basis of 2 good seasons or even 1 good game is also great comedy. What about the last 2 years? What about all the years before the unexpected Final 4 run?
Here's what you look for in a MM coach: Can his teams take on the high majors? Moser's can as his teams always play great defense and he can game coach on O. Can Gates (and I like Gates)? His team just got ass kicked. So the sample is small.
Also with Gates, he'll be gone from MU to FSU after his first good MU season. That's the risk with him.
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After watching this I Like Moser even more. Incredible spacing, picks, cuts, rolls, back picks, front picks, passes on point, players knowing where there are going and what they are doing. Defense gets into you. If we can get him Let’s Go Marquette!
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Determining Moser is a great coach on the basis of 2 good seasons or even 1 good game is also great comedy. What about the last 2 years? What about all the years before the unexpected Final 4 run?
I'd be cool with Gates or Moser, but you can't knock the latter's resume for lacking in consistent success while also banging the table for the former.
DG has fewer successful seasons at a lower level of basketball, after all.
As for all the past seasons, it's clear that Moser's success has come in the latter portion of his career. But Marquette wouldn't be hiring 2001 Porter Moser. They'd be hiring 2021 Porter Moser, so I'm not sure what he did two decades ago as a 32-year-old head coach at Arkansas Little Rock is terribly relevant.
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I'd be cool with Gates or Moser, but you can't knock the latter's resume for lacking in consistent success while also banging the table for the former.
DG has fewer successful seasons at a lower level of basketball, after all.
As for all the past seasons, it's clear that Moser's success has come in the latter portion of his career. But Marquette wouldn't be hiring 2001 Porter Moser. They'd be hiring 2021 Porter Moser, so I'm no sure what he did two decades ago as a 32-year-old head coach at Arkansas Little Rock is terribly relevant.
Gotta take Shaka's 2011-13 success into account and dismiss everything since! Gotta dismiss Moser's 2018-21 success and focus on everything before it!
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Gotta take Shaka's 2011-13 success into account and dismiss everything since! Gotta dismiss Moser's 2018 and 21 success and focus on everything before it!
FIFY
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If Loyola-Chicago pulls this off, I think there is less of a chance of Moser coming to MU. If he gets to the Elite 8, the odds go down even further. He'll stay at Loyola, where he's now a legend, or he'll land at Indiana. If he stays at Loyola he could also be a candidate for the Notre Dame job if Mike Brey is gone after next year (which is likely to happen).
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Watching him this year, he'd wipe the floor with Wojo.
Watching him the two years before that I think I'd have a different answer.
He's hot and cold. Either massively over performs or massively underperforms. Maybe with better resources he evens out. Im not sure
FWIW, until Friday, Loyola has won 1 game against a P6 team since the FF. And that was a terrible Vandy team. 2 if you add in the A10 Save for these tourney performances, his OOC performance with even these good Loyola teams has been quite bad.
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FWIW, until Friday, Loyola has won 1 game against a P6 team since the FF. And that was a terrible Vandy team. 2 if you add in the A10 Save for these tourney performances, his OOC performance with even these good Loyola teams has been quite bad.
Plus, they lost to Wisconsin. Can't have that. ;D
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FIFY
I mean, it's not like the two seasons in between were abysmal.
20- and 21-win seasons, won the conference regular season title one year, finished second the next. Fluky losses in the conference tournament both years.
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Moser coached his team to inbound the ball and bring it up court against the press. An idea so crazy it might work at Marquette.
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Certainly looks like he can coach. Would he be able to get Top 100 guys?
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After this win I’m not even sure MU can get Moser. Has MU ever hired a guy with this kind of DI tournament success before?
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After this win I’m not even sure MU can get Moser. Has MU ever hired a guy with this kind of DI tournament success before?
More or less, same thought. Not sure what interest he'd have in this program. A lot of the shine from the Crean and Buzz years is gone.
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Certainly looks like he can coach. Would he be able to get Top 100 guys?
He would have a much better pitch to make at Marquette than he had at Loyola. Great history, much better conference, arena, facilities, etc. Can you imagine being the No. 2 team in your own city, and the No. 1 is DePaul?
I want Moser.
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Honest question: After watching 15 minutes of Loyola vs Illinois do you have any doubt that Moser would coach circles around Wojo?
They may lose, sure - Illinois is loaded AND well coached. But this Loyola team is VERY well coached. Period.
Moser would coach circles around pretty much anyone else in the game right now. I'll be so sad if he's not the guy.
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After this win I’m not even sure MU can get Moser. Has MU ever hired a guy with this kind of DI tournament success before?
Our best hope might be him wanting Marquette as much as they want him. I’ve seen it reported that he covets this job
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Porter's Loyola just beat #1 Illinois. Led the entire game and set/controlled the tempo...
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Would have to shovel out huge $$$ after this win.
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After this win I’m not even sure MU can get Moser. Has MU ever hired a guy with this kind of DI tournament success before?
I now have serious doubts Marquette could land him. Marquette will probably go with an unproven assistant.
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1.Beilein
2.Moser if we can get him or afford him
3.Gates
4.Shaka if he gets fired
5. Smith
6. DeVries
This Game just flipped Gates and Moser for me.
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FIFY
Thanks for the fix, TAMU. His first and second place finishes in his conference truly were epic failures. Much worse than any of Shaka's seasons since his last NCAA tourney win.
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Loyola would wipe the floor with Wojo's "Warriors" LOL
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Name change time
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Moser is the new Brad Stevens, now we might have to compete with the NBA for his services.
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I haven’t followed the donors of late. Does MU still have the bball money resources to offer a gigantic deal?
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It was so refreshing to watch a well coached team after 7 years of high turnover Wojo ball. God I hope we can bring Moser to Marquette.
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Can he bring Krutwig as a grad transfer? :)
A huge, huge upgrade over what we’ve had in the middle.
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I haven’t followed the donors of late. Does MU still have the bball money resources to offer a gigantic deal?
Well we just lit $9m on fire to make an underperforming bum (who was never qualified in the first place) go take a vacation.
If the program wants a big money guy and the interest is mutual, they will make it happen.
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1.Beilein
2.Moser if we can get him or afford him
3.Gates
4.Shaka if he gets fired
5. Smith
6. DeVries
This Game just flipped Gates and Moser for me.
Went to MU undergrad Finance and MBA but Loyola was my other finalist for MBA.
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Moser would coach circles around pretty much anyone else in the game right now. I'll be so sad if he's not the guy.
I mean, Loyola did lose to Wisconsin by 14 earlier this year. They also lost to Richmond and Drake.
Moser is very good, but he's not Basketball Jesus. Don't get too swept away by the results of one game.
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I'm not anti-Moser, but this was predictable. He got a perfect second round matchup. He also got drubbed by Wisconsin this year. If Marquette goes for him, fine, but I'd have him probably 5th on my list, behind Smart, Gates, Smith, and (if no Patrick) Beilein.
I picked him to win this game, but falling in love with 1-2 game sample sizes is EXACTLY why Wojo lived off Nova for so long & why people this year were in his corner after Wisconsin and Creighton. If he really was turning his team into the new MVC Wichita, I'd be more interested. But anyone acting like 2 decent years in 4 is somehow on par with Gregg Marshall having 8 straight top-30 teams is living in a different reality.
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I now have serious doubts Marquette could land him. Marquette will probably go with an unproven assistant.
You are most likely correct. Marquette has never been able to land a guy like Moser off such recent success. Plus, his price tag just went way up after today and will go higher if he gets more tourney wins this year.
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Moser now officially has more Sweet 16 appearances than Shaka, with far less resources.
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I haven’t followed the donors of late. Does MU still have the bball money resources to offer a gigantic deal?
Moser is the new Brad Stevens, now we might have to compete with the NBA for his services.
This board is officially off the rails. NBA? Gigantic deal?
He makes $1.1MM now. You think it’s gonna cost $4MM to get him?
I mean, Loyola did lose to Wisconsin by 14 earlier this year. They also lost to Richmond and Drake.
Moser is very good, but he's not Basketball Jesus. Don't get too swept away by the results of one game.
THANK YOU
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Gang, mark my words, no way we are getting Moser.
Am a Loyola MBA and am proud of my secondary basketball team. Never expected this, even with Sister Jean.
I had Illinois as my national champ in my brackets. Shows what I know.
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Would have to shovel out huge $$$ after this win.
He's making less than half what Wojo made.
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To be fair, throughout the course of a whole season you are gonna have a handful of let down games. Hard to get up for them all. But your point is valid pakuni.
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I haven’t followed the donors of late. Does MU still have the bball money resources to offer a gigantic deal?
Moser makes $1.1 million at Loyola, and the school can't afford to go much higher. Blowing away his current compensation won't be a problem for Marquette. The only problem would be if Indiana or Minnesota get into the picture.
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I'm not anti-Moser, but this was predictable. He got a perfect second round matchup.
How was this the perfect second round matchup? Half of America had the Illini in the final four.
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What I like about Porter is in his “off years*” he still competed for titles in his conference. He may have been down nationally, he was still competing in his conference.
*between FF & S16
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I mean, Loyola did lose to Wisconsin by 14 earlier this year. They also lost to Richmond and Drake.
Moser is very good, but he's not Basketball Jesus. Don't get too swept away by the results of one game.
Single game results mean zero. We beat Wisconsin. We should be playing Baylor today!
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Is Shaka gonna be fired?
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This is one of the best games I've seen in some time. Loyola runs a smart and very effective offence and can defend the perimeter very well. A pleasure to watch great team ball.
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I'll go with this Moser guy. If he could keep the current MU core players and incoming recruits. If he could do that today with a bunch of one and two star players, can't imagine what he could do with the highly ranked players.
He also seems well liked by his players. That Trautwig had more assists and great passes in one game than any MU big had all year. Impressive offensive scheme with lots of backdoor cuts. Goof for them.
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Gang, mark my words, no way we are getting Moser.
Am a Loyola MBA and am proud of my secondary basketball team. Never expected this, even with Sister Jean.
I had Illinois as my national champ in my brackets. Shows what I know.
I'm hoping that highlighted line comes back to haunt you regarding Moser. ;D
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I'm not anti-Moser, but this was predictable. He got a perfect second round matchup. He also got drubbed by Wisconsin this year. If Marquette goes for him, fine, but I'd have him probably 5th on my list, behind Smart, Gates, Smith, and (if no Patrick) Beilein.
I picked him to win this game, but falling in love with 1-2 game sample sizes is EXACTLY why Wojo lived off Nova for so long & why people this year were in his corner after Wisconsin and Creighton. If he really was turning his team into the new MVC Wichita, I'd be more interested. But anyone acting like 2 decent years in 4 is somehow on par with Gregg Marshall having 8 straight top-30 teams is living in a different reality.
Might want to quit while you are behind. You're not going win any support from anyone today believing a Porter Moser would be 5th on any coaching search list, especially behind the names you mentioned.
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in all seriousness, I think Moser is the perfect guy...for Loyola. I like him and am a big fan of us and hope he hits bank and has great success at Loyola. We are in a position, at least for the moment, that we appear to have higher level options and we should pursue all of them. As I said about Wojo last year, aside from MU or DePaul, who else is chasing after Moser. I want to chase guys the big boys chase and not pick a guy because he is a great guy, local guy and spent time with Rick.
Porter Moser just accomplished something at Loyola that no coach has done in Marquette basketball history not named Al McGuire.
He took his program to a final four and to a sweet sixteen in separate seasons.
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Single game results mean zero. We beat Wisconsin. We should be playing Baylor today!
Right. Single game results mean zero.
Which is why a statements like "Moser would coach circles around pretty much anyone else in the game right now" based on today's game is utterly ridiculous.
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If you have read the threads.....
He said....."he thought Wojo would never leave this job"....."so he has thought about it"....Now the opening to pounce and be patient....
He also knows how good of a place Marquette is.....DePaul has to be a consideration but they just don't have the pedigree......And Milwaukee is a plus.....A little slower around the "edges".....
You offer him a 5 year rolling contract at WOJO's number and you probably have a deal.....
He will turn down $3 mildo from the Big Meat grinder schools.....(IU)
He already has......
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This board is officially off the rails. NBA? Gigantic deal?
He makes $1.1MM now. You think it’s gonna cost $4MM to get him?
THANK YOU
Exactly. He won’t get a single call from the NBA. And money will have zero effect on whether he comes here.
People get really crazy at these times.
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Loyola Ramblers
Mosers Dozers
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How was this the perfect second round matchup? Half of America had the Illini in the final four.
Half of America made an obviously bad pick. Illinois was never getting out of the first weekend.
When it comes to making picks, I like to use Haslametrics. No site is perfect, but that site is excellent at breaking down strengths and weaknesses. Look at the "curious trends" on the Illinois page.
https://haslametrics.com/ratings2.php?yr=&tid=735
It is basically a description of Loyola. Illinois was always going to struggle in this game because Loyola was going to control the pace. Loyola shoots well and controls the glass. And if LUC had lost to Georgia Tech (which was their more difficult matchup) that meant UI would have to prep for the Tech zone in one day.
I expected to pick Illinois to the Final Four until I saw their draw. As soon as I saw LUC on the 8-line opposite Georgia Tech, I knew it would be a short Tournament in Champaign.
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I mean, Loyola did lose to Wisconsin by 14 earlier this year. They also lost to Richmond and Drake.
Moser is very good, but he's not Basketball Jesus. Don't get too swept away by the results of one game.
I]
Your so called "one game" was over a #1 seed, a state rival, "little brother" syndrome, ticket to the sweet 16. They led the entire game, controlled the tempo, won by 13 but was an 8 point underdog. Came out ready, well prepared, sound fundamental, disciplined team, held Illni to 58 points with a great D. C'mon man!
This was a huge upset and much more than one game.
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Certainly looks like he can coach. Would he be able to get Top 100 guys?
(https://i.gifer.com/5H1.gif)
How many top 100 guys did he need to go to a final 4 & Sweet 16 (and counting)? How many did Wojo just stack up at MU?
Coaching matters. Quality players will want to play for him. And they will become the best version of themselves. Case closed. Get his ass in the Al as soon as Loyola is done. Don't care how much it costs.
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Determining Moser is a great coach on the basis of 2 good seasons or even 1 good game is also great comedy. What about the last 2 years? What about all the years before the unexpected Final 4 run?
It's perfectly fine if you don't like Moser, doesn't bother me in the least, and, you clearly don't. But you seem to have different standards for different coaches, in the same league, at the same time to make your evaluations.
You recently posted this:
"I would be on board with Wardle now. I wouldn't have been when our job was last open. He has shown the ability to build two programs, has won conference titles (GB) and conference tourney titles (Bradley). He has won at different tempos."
Wardle in the past four years at Bradley has had KenPom of:
145, 107, 161, 124.
All four of these years were worse than Moser in the same league at the same time. (All six of Wardle's MVC years have had worse KenPom than Moser)
As you can see above the only consistency is being in the 100's.
*Disclaimer, I am not advocating for Moser to get the MUBB HC position.
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How was this the perfect second round matchup? Half of America had the Illini in the final four.
That’s a horrific barometer. Most of America was shocked ACU beat Texas but as Brew said, analytics pointed to it being not unlikely. Joe 6Pack picking the B10 champ to go all the way doesn’t mean they don’t match up well against a team like Loyola. I’m sure people were STUNNED UVA lost to Ohio yesterday too
Illinois got beat down by MSU late in the year, nearly lost to Ohio, was down huge early to NW, and got the brakes beat off them by Baylor. People just assumed they were unstoppable cause they got hot to end the year.
I'll go with this Moser guy. If he could keep the current MU core players and incoming recruits. If he could do that today with a bunch of one and two star players, can't imagine what he could do with the highly ranked players.
No chance. Players sign up for a style of play. Nobody on the roster or incoming chose MU over UVA or UW.
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I'm not anti-Moser, but this was predictable. He got a perfect second round matchup. He also got drubbed by Wisconsin this year. If Marquette goes for him, fine, but I'd have him probably 5th on my list, behind Smart, Gates, Smith, and (if no Patrick) Beilein.
I picked him to win this game, but falling in love with 1-2 game sample sizes is EXACTLY why Wojo lived off Nova for so long & why people this year were in his corner after Wisconsin and Creighton. If he really was turning his team into the new MVC Wichita, I'd be more interested. But anyone acting like 2 decent years in 4 is somehow on par with Gregg Marshall having 8 straight top-30 teams is living in a different reality.
brew, I agree some are a little too ga-ga and I think you've made some good points, but I also think you're a little too dismissive.
"2 decent years"? Are 30-win seasons capped by conference titles and deep NCAA tournament runs now only "decent"? Were the other 2, in which Loyola won 20 games and finished first and second in the conference during the regular season not even "decent"?
And anybody can play the "yeah but he lost to so-and-so" game. The Vanderbilt team Moser beat to account for the only P6 victory he recorded (in 5 attempts) between his two deep NCAA tourney runs was called horrible by another Scooper, and correctly so. That Vanderbilt team also beat the great Nate Oats, Frank Martin, and an 18th-ranked LSU. So what?
I haven't decided yet where Moser is on my list, but I have decided that if he ends up being our guy, I will not be upset about that at all.
Shaka and Porter each was put in a pressure situation in the last 15 hours. One saw his team thoroughly outplayed by a 14-seed filled with tiny, untalented players to extend his streak without an NCAA tournament win to 8 years; the other beat a 1-seed predicted by many to win it all to earn his 6th NCAA tournament win in the last 4 seasons.
Maybe Moser doesn't deserve the Marquette job, I don't know. But he does deserve respect, and more than just a "decent" amount of it.
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This is one of the best games I've seen in some time. Loyola runs a smart and very effective offence and can defend the perimeter very well. A pleasure to watch great team ball.
Especially when we heard for years it was MU players and not Wojo's defensive scheme. Those were 2 and 3 stars who just beat NBA draft picks.
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It’s not that simple. Recruits also take into account relationships with coaches, facilities, conference, education.
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That’s a horrific barometer. Most of America was shocked ACU beat Texas but as Brew said, analytics pointed to it being not unlikely. Joe 6Pack picking the B10 champ to go all the way doesn’t mean they don’t match up well against a team like Loyola. I’m sure people were STUNNED UVA lost to Ohio yesterday too
Illinois got beat down by MSU late in the year, nearly lost to Ohio, was down huge early to NW, and got the brakes beat off them by Baylor. People just assumed they were unstoppable cause they got hot to end the year.
No chance. Players sign up for a style of play. Nobody on the roster or incoming chose MU over UVA or UW.
What style of play were they signing up for when they committed to Wojo?
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How many top 100 guys did he need to go to a final 4 & Sweet 16 (and counting)? How many did Wojo just stack up at MU?
Coaching matters. Quality players will want to play for him. And they will become the best version of themselves. Case closed. Get his ass in the Al as soon as Loyola is done. Don't care how much it costs.
Big East is a big boy league and whoever gets the job is gonna have to get Top 100 guys. Guess Scholl will have to figure that out.
And Wojo couldn't coach worth a lick.
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You recently posted this:
"I would be on board with Wardle now. I wouldn't have been when our job was last open. He has shown the ability to build two programs, has won conference titles (GB) and conference tourney titles (Bradley). He has won at different tempos."
Last year I was higher on Wardle than I am now. He's not in my top-5 at the moment and would be behind Moser.
I still think Wardle could be a good coach, but he'd be behind Smart, Smith, and Beilein for obvious reasons and Gates because I like the proven recruiting record.
And one concern with Moser is also style. I'm not sure what he does translates at the high major level for a full season. If he is our guy, I'm fine with it. He's an upgrade. But he's not at the top of my list.
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Right. Single game results mean zero.
Which is why a statements like "Moser would coach circles around pretty much anyone else in the game right now" based on today's game is utterly ridiculous.
Who's basing the prospect of Porter Moser becoming the MU coach on just 1 game?
In the past 4 seasons including this season, Moser has led Loyola to 3 first place finishes and 1 second place finish in their conference.
During this time period Loyola's conference record was 56-16. Also, Loyola has a record of 6-1 in the NCAA tournament so far in the past 4 seasons.
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Shaka and Porter each was put in a pressure situation in the last 15 hours. One saw his team thoroughly outplayed by a 14-seed filled with tiny, untalented players to extend his streak without an NCAA tournament win to 8 years; the other beat a 1-seed predicted by many to win it all to earn his 6th NCAA tournament win in the last 4 seasons.
Yes exactly - and Shaka's team looked exactly like a Wojo squad: Confused, sloppy, no adjustments intra-game to a very obvious one-trick pony. Shaka had the deer in headlights Wojo look. Moser's squad would have beaten Abilene by 25+ because they wouldn't have turned it over half as many times and would have calmly cashed the layups & wide open threes that junk-ass defense would have presented to them. I do not care what Shaka's recruiting classes were ranked. It's not even close between the two in my mind.
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Why would Moser want to put up with you guys?
Why would he want to put up with the Trustee's, Wisconsin and the BIG EAST?
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How was this the perfect second round matchup? Half of America had the Illini in the final four.
Half of America is stupid.
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What style of play were they signing up for when they committed to Wojo?
One that has usually been top third of the country in pace and averaging around 80 PPG. Contrast that with Moser whose Loyola teams traditionally rank in the bottom 25 teams in the country in pace and usually average in the mid 60s.
I’m not arguing that makes Wojo a good coach or an offensive whiz, he’s not, but Moser’s style is a sharp contrast to anyone attracted to up tempo or active scoring basketball
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Why would Moser want to put up with you guys?
Why would he want to put up with the Trustee's, Wisconsin and the BIG EAST?
I can think of a couple million reasons.
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Last year I was higher on Wardle than I am now. He's not in my top-5 at the moment and would be behind Moser.
I still think Wardle could be a good coach, but he'd be behind Smart, Smith, and Beilein for obvious reasons and Gates because I like the proven recruiting record.
And one concern with Moser is also style. I'm not sure what he does translates at the high major level for a full season. If he is our guy, I'm fine with it. He's an upgrade. But he's not at the top of my list.
Your quote was from December 28, 2020. Your follow up posts continued after that. That's this season, just a couple of months ago. That's quite a big swing in a couple of months.
As I said people can like who they like, that's all good, but I do prefer similar evaluation standards for everyone.
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Why would Moser want to put up with you guys?
Why would he want to put up with the Trustee's, Wisconsin and the BIG EAST?
Although strangely phrased, I do think this is a fair point.
He knows he can win at Loyola, they will never fire him a la Pat Fitzgerald and I do think he truly likes the school.
Maybe when his kids are older he’ll feel differently. But I think the biggest competition for Moser is Loyola themselves.
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Big East is a big boy league and whoever gets the job is gonna have to get Top 100 guys. Guess Scholl will have to figure that out.
And Wojo couldn't coach worth a lick.
His current squad sans top 100 recruits could have won our league this year. And if you think he couldn't pull in any top 100's at MU with his track record then I'm not even sure what to say. The difference is, he would look at more than just a player's ranking on some third party service. Team fit and cohesive vision would be the priority. And it would work.
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I can think of a couple million reasons.
Love, loyalty, patience, core values, honesty, academics, realistic expectations, great student athletes parents, got it.
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Your quote was from December 28, 2020. Your follow up posts continued after that. That's this year just a couple of months ago.
2020 is last year, as we're all acutely aware.
EDIT: and regardless, he's not near the top of my list now, so I don't know why your belaboring this. I've been clear on who I prefer now, which is probably more worthy of discussion than trying to play gotcha with irrelevant old posts.
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Half of America is stupid.
So you knew Loyola was gonna win?
Who are your Final Four?
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Although strangely phrased, I do think this is a fair point.
He knows he can win at Loyola, they will never fire him a la Pat Fitzgerald and I do think he truly likes the school.
Maybe when his kids are older he’ll feel differently. But I think the biggest competition for Moser is Loyola themselves.
There are at least a million reasons why Moser would consider leaving Loyola.
Marquette's campus is about 40 minutes from his home, so he wouldn't even need to move the kids. I'm sure Marquette would be happy to set him up with a nice apartment in the city for when he has a late night, but otherwise it's a very easy commute.
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Half of America is stupid.
This is the correct, and more succinct answer.
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Who's basing the prospect of Porter Moser becoming the MU coach on just 1 game?
In the past 4 seasons including this season, Moser has led Loyola to 3 first place finishes and 1 second place finish in their conference.
During this time period Loyola's conference record was 56-16. Also, Loyola has a record of 6-1 in the NCAA tournament so far for the past 4 seasons.
Precisely.
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Half of America made an obviously bad pick. Illinois was never getting out of the first weekend.
When it comes to making picks, I like to use Haslametrics. No site is perfect, but that site is excellent at breaking down strengths and weaknesses. Look at the "curious trends" on the Illinois page.
https://haslametrics.com/ratings2.php?yr=&tid=735
It is basically a description of Loyola. Illinois was always going to struggle in this game because Loyola was going to control the pace. Loyola shoots well and controls the glass. And if LUC had lost to Georgia Tech (which was their more difficult matchup) that meant UI would have to prep for the Tech zone in one day.
I expected to pick Illinois to the Final Four until I saw their draw. As soon as I saw LUC on the 8-line opposite Georgia Tech, I knew it would be a short Tournament in Champaign.
Oh please
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Half of America is stupid.
You must be fun at parties. That’s a pretty condescending philosophy.
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So you knew Loyola was gonna win?
Who are your Final Four?
No. But I did pick Illinois to lose in the S16 because they have been a bit inconsistent. And like Brew mentioned, Loyola is a perfect team to take advantage of them.
I also had OSU going to the FF so I get plenty wrong!
My final four outside of OSU is Bama, Houston and Gonzaga, since you asked. Remaining E8 teama are Baylor, Oklahoma St, Houston, Bama, Gonzaga, Michigan and Kansas.
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This is the correct, and more succinct answer.
Let's see your bet slips, fellas. I presume you all used your superior knowledge to win some easy cash.
Or at least your brackets.
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You must be fun at parties. That’s a pretty condescending philosophy.
It was tongue in cheek. And like I mentioned above, I'm wrong all the time!
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Who is brew and MB’s final four? I want to take these certainties to my bookie.
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His current squad sans top 100 recruits could have won our league this year.
Just stop it. Again, they lost by double digits to Wisconsin in a game they were never in. They lost to Richmond. They struggled mightily with a meh Indiana St team.
Moser is a very good coach and this Loyola team beats this years Marquette team, absolutely. But thinking they would consistently beat Nova, Creighton, and UCONN all year is crazy. They likely finish around 4th at best.
Would Ohio have finished near the top of the ACC?
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There are at least a million reasons why Moser would consider leaving Loyola.
Marquette's campus is about 40 minutes from his home, so he wouldn't even need to move the kids. I'm sure Marquette would be happy to set him up with a nice apartment in the city for when he has a late night, but otherwise it's a very easy commute.
Actually it's 77 miles exactly. Hmmmm...
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While watching the first half of Loyola-Illinois, I couldn't help but notice how efficient Loyola was on offense, so I decided to track their possessions in the second half. OCD, yes, but whatevs.
Before Illinois started fouling intentionally with about a minute to play, Loyola had 32 possessions.
+ 21 of the 32 resulted in either high-percentage shots or free throws. Of those 21:
++++ 14 resulted in Loyola scores.
++++ 1 was a missed layup on which Loyola got the rebound, got fouled while taking a high-percentage shot and hit 1 of 2 FTs.
++++ 2 missed layups, 3 missed baby hooks by Krutwig, a missed wide-open 3.
Also:
++ 2 possessions that looked doomed were bailed out by Illinois fouls, one drawn on a Rowsey-thing-type move.
++ there were 7 LU turnovers: 3 bad passes, 2 travels, 1 ball batted out of Krutwig's hands, and a terrible charge call.
++ Illinois pressure didn't bother Loyola at all.
++ Raftery: "They're running a clinic out there." ... "They were so well-prepped."
It was a performance that would have been impressive in a January game against Bradley. Coming in an NCAA tournament game, with S16 on the line and facing one of the top 3 teams in the country, "impressive" doesn't cover it very well.
And I haven't even talked about their defense, which caused Illinois fits most of the game.
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It’s not that simple. Recruits also take into account relationships with coaches, facilities, conference, education.
LOL!
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Fine replace education with t shirts
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Lots of interesting takes to say the least.
For the record, I’m on Houston/Nova moneyline parlay at -130 today and sitting on Arkansas futures (Sweet 16) at +140 and Oklahoma State futures (Sweet 16) at +145.
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Will Scoop completely melt down if Moser goes to DePaul and kicks MU's ass twice a year?
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There are at least a million reasons why Moser would consider leaving Loyola.
Marquette's campus is about 40 minutes from his home, so he wouldn't even need to move the kids. I'm sure Marquette would be happy to set him up with a nice apartment in the city for when he has a late night, but otherwise it's a very easy commute.
Just jumping in because I have done this commute before...
It's more of an every weekend commute, preferably alternating cities with the amily on those weekends. When I did it, it was a couple of days a week, setting my own schedule. And, I can say that over time, it's a grind. It's not an every day thing long term, but they could figure it out.
But your overall point stands regarding geography and proximity being a positive in the situation.
*Diaclaimer, I am not advocating for Moser to be MUBB HC.
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Actually it's 77 miles exactly. Hmmmm...
You're right. It's about an hour.
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Will Scoop completely melt down if Moser goes to DePaul and kicks MU's ass twice a year?
Meltdown? Scoop? Never.
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How many 4 star recruits on Loyola?
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You're right. It's about an hour.
I was joking because it returned 77. Fate, I tell you!
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You're right. It's about an hour.
In rush hour, rain, accidents, construction, it's 1.5 to 2 hours. On good days, at good times (10-2pm day time, or later at night) it's closer to an hour.
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In rush hour, rain, accidents, construction, it's 1.5 to 2 hours. On good days, at good times (10-2pm day time, or later at night) it's closer to an hour.
Ammie to Glenview too.
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I exhort the Moser believers to call the MU athletic dept. as I just did and voice your respective stamps of approval on the hiring of this fine BB coach. Let’s get a groundswell of support going for our choice, and ensure the people in charge of the decision hear us in cogent and alacritous fashion!
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I exhort the Moser believers to call the MU athletic dept. as I just did and voice your respective stamps of approval on the hiring of this fine BB coach. Let’s get a groundswell of support going for our choice, and ensure the people in charge of the decision hear us in cogent and alacritous fashion!
As someone who also wants Moser to be the next head coach of MU, I exhort the MU athletic department to ignore us. We're reactionary idiots. Conduct your search and hire a great coach. I'll support whoever you hire.
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Ammie to Glenview too.
Ha beat me to it. A nice relaxing hour Amtrak ride. Don't even need to worry about traffic.
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Honestly, if they can’t figure it out on their own we’d have to question what Broeker and Scholl do all year.
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Gotta love all the guys here that must have hit on the first pair of tits that walked into the bar and thought she was a super model.
I can't believe how horny some of you are for Moser.
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I exhort the Moser believers to call the MU athletic dept. as I just did and voice your respective stamps of approval on the hiring of this fine BB coach. Let’s get a groundswell of support going for our choice, and ensure the people in charge of the decision hear us in cogent and alacritous fashion!
Perhaps they should start a GoFundMe page while they are at it. After all MU can't print money; but maybe they can issue a digital currency called Golden Eagles.
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Yeah how insane to love a guy who just took Loyola friggin Maramount to a final four and a sweet sixteen(or more) and is in our backyard. What are we thinking?
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I mean he blows away Shaka and old man bielein. “Don’t overthink it stupid”.
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Yeah how insane to love a guy who just took Loyola friggin Maramount to a final four and a sweet sixteen(or more) and is in our backyard. What are we thinking?
So...does anyone want to tell him...
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Whatever. Some no name Loyola.
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Coaching search aside. How bad must it be if you're a DePaul fan watching Loyola win like this utilizing under recruited Chicagoland kids.
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So...does anyone want to tell him...
Stan Johnson!
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Let's see your bet slips, fellas. I presume you all used your superior knowledge to win some easy cash.
Or at least your brackets.
I don't gamble, but I only make one bracket.
https://twitter.com/brewcity1977/status/1373700742234611712?s=21
My Final Four is Gonzaga, Alabama, Baylor, and Houston. Like BM said, I also get plenty wrong, but Illinois seemed like a very easy first weekend exit.
The other one I feel strongly about today is Syracuse over WVU. Boeheim is always tough to prepare for on short rest and, despite their shooting, West Virginia is terrible against zone. Like worst in the field terrible. I also learned in the past that just because Boeheim got an undeserved bid doesn't mean he won't make a Sweet 16.
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Illinois was the hottest team coming into the tourney not named Gonzaga. Calling them an "easy first found exit" is revisionist history.
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Yeah how insane to love a guy who just took Loyola friggin Maramount to a final four and a sweet sixteen(or more) and is in our backyard. What are we thinking?
I never knew Los Angeles was in our backyard. I need to get to the beach more often now that I know it’s so close.
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Illinois was the hottest team coming into the tourney not named Gonzaga. Calling them an "easy first found exit" is revisionist history.
It wasn't "easy" but they were by far the 1 seed I was least confident in after seeing the bracket.
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Meltdown? Scoop? Never.
We pay for the extra server CPU cycles just to have overhead for the 0.1% of time you folks decide to meltdown.
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Watched the second half and Loyola just had their way with Illinois. You can tell that is a very balanced, well coached team. I would take Moser for sure. I doubt he leaves though
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Interesting thoughts on Twitter.
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Will Scoop completely melt down if Moser goes to DePaul and kicks MU's ass twice a year?
In 4 hours we went from:
'we should for sure look at Moser in our top 5' to
'Moser has to be our number one pick' to
'we can't afford him and he's too big for us' to
'we missed our window he's going to the NBA' to
'we're going to lose him to DePaul'
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Hards
I 100% agree with you. I cannot believe it, but spot on, my friend!!
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Gotta love all the guys here that must have hit on the first pair of tits that walked into the bar and thought she was a super model.
I can't believe how horny some of you are for Moser.
Here's my case for him from 2 months ago, this isn't based on one game.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59613.msg1301830#msg1301830
I watched almost 10 of their games this year. I was thoroughly impressed every singe time I watched them. Not just the end result of the game. But the surgical precision every player approached each possession with on both sides of the court was uncanny. I was a doubter after 2018. Watch some actual film of his teams and you will be sold. Dwell on KenPom rankings from 2015, recruiting rankings, etc. and it's your loss.
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Interesting thoughts on Twitter.
Jeff Goodman is about the last person you wanna lean on for true coaching search action.
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Moser ?
MU could do waaaaay worse
His recent achievements are amazing.
An FF and S16 at LOYOLA??!!
Friggin Loyola
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In 4 hours we went from:
'we should for sure look at Moser in our top 5' to
'Moser has to be our number one pick' to
'we can't afford him and he's too big for us' to
'we missed our window he's going to the NBA' to
'we're going to lose him to DePaul'
Like I said up thread: we're reactionary idiots. All fans, really. And in case anyone takes that personally, I'll quote the noted philosopher Kay: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."
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Moser ?
MU could do waaaaay worse
His recent achievements are amazing.
An FF and S16 at LOYOLA??!!
Friggin Loyola
Indeed. Has anybody been to Loyola recently? Gentile Center hasn't changed at all since I was doing volleyball camps there in 2007. The fact he can get any semblance of talent to go there is incredible.
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Indeed. Has anybody been to Loyola recently? Gentile Center hasn't changed at all since I was doing volleyball camps there in 2007. The fact he can get any semblance of talent to go there is incredible.
What? They literally did a major renovation in 2011. That’s why they got the VB Championship 5-6 years ago. Just added a bunch of screens and LEDs post-FF and swapped out the floor last year. It’s not the Fiserv, but it’s not some bandbox dump. Were you the guy calling it smaller than the Al too?
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Illinois was the hottest team coming into the tourney not named Gonzaga. Calling them an "easy first found exit" is revisionist history.
Not when you picked them to lose this game it isn't. I was shocked when I heard Vegas was getting more money on Illinois than anyone else after the bracket came out. They had the toughest road to the Elite 8 of any 1-seed and clearly haven't been on par with teams like Gonzaga and Baylor for the balance of the season. I'm sure people feel bitter after losing a F4 or NC team, but seriously, this was a matchup they were never likely to win. Not in the second round.
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Moser is the new Brad Stevens, now we might have to compete with the NBA for his services.
Alright calm down.
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Not when you picked them to lose this game it isn't. I was shocked when I heard Vegas was getting more money on Illinois than anyone else after the bracket came out. They had the toughest road to the Elite 8 of any 1-seed and clearly haven't been on par with teams like Gonzaga and Baylor for the balance of the season. I'm sure people feel bitter after losing a F4 or NC team, but seriously, this was a matchup they were never likely to win. Not in the second round.
But if it had been Georgia Tech instead?
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Chitown Moser
I agree we could a lot worse than Moser, but believe we can a lot better. I am pulling for big time at Loyola, like I did in 2018, and hope they pull off some more miracles. I want to program that is a high seed and not the tourney darling. Tourney darlings are a great story and everyone pulls for them and we should. I would be careful assuming that he could carry over his success to the BE.
That said, I agree that MU could do worse.
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What? They literally did a major renovation in 2011. That’s why they got the VB Championship 5-6 years ago. Just added a bunch of screens and LEDs post-FF and swapped out the floor last year. It’s not the Fiserv, but it’s not some bandbox dump. Were you the guy calling it smaller than the Al too?
Funny enough, I spec’d in and sold to Loyola all the screens and video walls at the Gentile Center.
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But if it had been Georgia Tech instead?
Addressed earlier, but I didn't like Illinois' matchup there because of their weird zone. I picked Moser because he had a week to prepare, but I don't think Illinois would've won that on a short turn-around. That 8/9 was a nightmare for any 1-seed, but especially Illinois.
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Chitown Moser
I agree we could a lot worse than Moser, but believe we can a lot better. I am pulling for big time at Loyola, like I did in 2018, and hope they pull off some more miracles. I want to program that is a high seed and not the tourney darling. Tourney darlings are a great story and everyone pulls for them and we should. I would be careful assuming that he could carry over his success to the BE.
That said, I agree that MU could do worse.
2018 felt like a lot of miracles, Goose. So far in 2021, including a decisive, never-in-doubt win over a 1-seed, it doesn't seem very miraculous.
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What? They literally did a major renovation in 2011. That’s why they got the VB Championship 5-6 years ago. Just added a bunch of screens and LEDs post-FF and swapped out the floor last year. It’s not the Fiserv, but it’s not some bandbox dump. Were you the guy calling it smaller than the Al too?
Is it not? Always thought it was but the Al's dimensions are wonky because there's no seating on the end-lines.
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I mean, it's not like the two seasons in between were abysmal.
20- and 21-win seasons, won the conference regular season title one year, finished second the next. Fluky losses in the conference tournament both years.
Thanks for the fix, TAMU. His first and second place finishes in his conference truly were epic failures. Much worse than any of Shaka's seasons since his last NCAA tourney win.
When you take a program to the final four, the expectations change and they should.
Greg Marshall followed up his Final Four with a perfect regular season and 4 consecutive top 15 KenPom finishes.
Shaka Smart followed up his Final Four with four consecutive NCAAT appearances
Porter Moser followed up his Final Four with two consecutive sub-100 KenPom finishes. He's back and better this season but that level of inconsistency is worrisome.
You say his two season in between weren't failures but they were. He underperformed by 65 spots in KenPom in the year after the Final Four. That's worse than anything Shaka did or even Wojo did. And it's not like they were high ranked to start, they were preseason 66. Finishing top 2 in a league where DePaul would have been the highest ranked KenPom team in one year and 2nd in the other is not impressive.
No one knows how a coach or player will handle the jump to the next level. Shaka fell short of expectations. I think there were legitimate reasons why that happened and a half step down to Marquette could see him be successful. I don't know how Moser will do at the next level. I do know that his resume is worse than Shaka's was when he made the jump up. Doesn't mean he won't be better but my experience is that March darlings seem to flop at the next level. I prefer guys with consistent success.
Moser has earned his way on to the list for sure. For me, he's still hovering towards the back of it but I wouldn't be upset if he was the pick. At least we can agree that he's better than Crean am I right?
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Chitown Moser
I agree we could a lot worse than Moser, but believe we can a lot better. I am pulling for big time at Loyola, like I did in 2018, and hope they pull off some more miracles. I want to program that is a high seed and not the tourney darling. Tourney darlings are a great story and everyone pulls for them and we should. I would be careful assuming that he could carry over his success to the BE.
That said, I agree that MU could do worse.
These aren't "miracles" my man. The guy's got major chops. Shaka's FF is looking more and more like the miracle/fluke.
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Moser put on a coaching clinic today. If you aren’t at least looking in his direction you’re a fool.
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When you take a program to the final four, the expectations change and they should.
Greg Marshall followed up his Final Four with a perfect regular season and 4 consecutive top 15 KenPom finishes.
Shaka Smart followed up his Final Four with four consecutive NCAAT appearances
Porter Moser followed up his Final Four with two consecutive sub-100 KenPom finishes. He's back and better this season but that level of inconsistency is worrisome.
You say his two season in between weren't failures but they were. He underperformed by 65 spots in KenPom in the year after the Final Four. That's worse than anything Shaka did or even Wojo did. And it's not like they were high ranked to start, they were preseason 66. Finishing top 2 in a league where DePaul would have been the highest ranked KenPom team in one year and 2nd in the other is not impressive.
No one knows how a coach or player will handle the jump to the next level. Shaka fell short of expectations. I think there were legitimate reasons why that happened and a half step down to Marquette could see him be successful. I don't know how Moser will do at the next level. I do know that his resume is worse than Shaka's was when he made the jump up. Doesn't mean he won't be better but my experience is that March darlings seem to flop at the next level. I prefer guys with consistent success.
Moser has earned his way on to the list for sure. For me, he's still hovering towards the back of it but I wouldn't be upset if he was the pick. At least we can agree that he's better than Crean am I right?
You and I will disagree on how we define "failures."
Loyola can only compete in its league. It finished first and second in that league in those two "horrible" years. Both times, they suffered excruciating conference tournament losses. It happens.
I know you love Kenpom. That's cool. Kenpom hasn't won a game yet; no left hand and lateral quickness is suspect.
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2018 felt like a lot of miracles, Goose. So far in 2021, including a decisive, never-in-doubt win over a 1-seed, it doesn't seem very miraculous.
In 2018, I wouldn't have wanted anything to do with Moser. Today I'd put him in my top-5 of candidates. Today was impressive, though it is only his second career top-20 win per kenpom. After pulling that Tennessee upset, they got a really fortunate draw in 2018 while that region fell into the toilet.
And echo everything TAMU said. There's stuff to like, but there are a lot of valid questions, and that's before getting to his lack of recruiting history.
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When you take a program to the final four, the expectations change and they should.
Greg Marshall followed up his Final Four with a perfect regular season and 4 consecutive top 15 KenPom finishes.
Shaka Smart followed up his Final Four with four consecutive NCAAT appearances
Porter Moser followed up his Final Four with two consecutive sub-100 KenPom finishes. He's back and better this season but that level of inconsistency is worrisome.
You say his two season in between weren't failures but they were. He underperformed by 65 spots in KenPom in the year after the Final Four. That's worse than anything Shaka did or even Wojo did. And it's not like they were high ranked to start, they were preseason 66. Finishing top 2 in a league where DePaul would have been the highest ranked KenPom team in one year and 2nd in the other is not impressive.
No one knows how a coach or player will handle the jump to the next level. Shaka fell short of expectations. I think there were legitimate reasons why that happened and a half step down to Marquette could see him be successful. I don't know how Moser will do at the next level. I do know that his resume is worse than Shaka's was when he made the jump up. Doesn't mean he won't be better but my experience is that March darlings seem to flop at the next level. I prefer guys with consistent success.
Moser has earned his way on to the list for sure. For me, he's still hovering towards the back of it but I wouldn't be upset if he was the pick. At least we can agree that he's better than Crean am I right?
TAMU, I'm asking honestly: what guys with "consistent success" as head coaches do you think are viable candidates? I really don't want to see MU go down the assistant path again. Of the names I'm seeing thrown out consistently, I think several are pretty unrealistic, and several don't have "consistent success" as head coaches. I like both Moser and Shaka...with maybe an edge to Moser based, admittedly, on some recency bias. Both have some things that concern me a bit. While I don't know all that much about Gates, I'm not sure he checks that "consistent success" box as a head coach.
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Stone cold locks needs to be cashed in picking games.
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Especially when we heard for years it was MU players and not Wojo's defensive scheme. Those were 2 and 3 stars who just beat NBA draft picks.
It was both. Get rid of the Howard/Rowdy backcourt and defense jumps from 182 in KenPom to 45.
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It’ll be interesting to see how this board feels about Moser if Loyola gets blown out by the Oklahoma St / Oregon St winner when it’s played later this week (if the MU job is still open then).
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It was both. Get rid of the Howard/Rowdy backcourt and defense jumps from 182 in KenPom to 45.
Except then it fell to 73 and 81. Rowsey was a problem, but that system was terrible.
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When you take a program to the final four, the expectations change and they should.
Greg Marshall followed up his Final Four with a perfect regular season and 4 consecutive top 15 KenPom finishes.
Shaka Smart followed up his Final Four with four consecutive NCAAT appearances
Porter Moser followed up his Final Four with two consecutive sub-100 KenPom finishes. He's back and better this season but that level of inconsistency is worrisome.
You say his two season in between weren't failures but they were. He underperformed by 65 spots in KenPom in the year after the Final Four. That's worse than anything Shaka did or even Wojo did. And it's not like they were high ranked to start, they were preseason 66. Finishing top 2 in a league where DePaul would have been the highest ranked KenPom team in one year and 2nd in the other is not impressive.
No one knows how a coach or player will handle the jump to the next level. Shaka fell short of expectations. I think there were legitimate reasons why that happened and a half step down to Marquette could see him be successful. I don't know how Moser will do at the next level. I do know that his resume is worse than Shaka's was when he made the jump up. Doesn't mean he won't be better but my experience is that March darlings seem to flop at the next level. I prefer guys with consistent success.
Moser has earned his way on to the list for sure. For me, he's still hovering towards the back of it but I wouldn't be upset if he was the pick. At least we can agree that he's better than Crean am I right?
It's fair to mention season results to evaluate a coach. I am less interested in "expectations" year to year.
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Is it not? Always thought it was but the Al's dimensions are wonky because there's no seating on the end-lines.
It’s about 1300 seats, or 33% bigger than the Al
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In 2018, I wouldn't have wanted anything to do with Moser. Today I'd put him in my top-5 of candidates. Today was impressive, though it is only his second career top-20 win per kenpom. After pulling that Tennessee upset, they got a really fortunate draw in 2018 while that region fell into the toilet.
And echo everything TAMU said. There's stuff to like, but there are a lot of valid questions, and that's before getting to his lack of recruiting history.
Absolutely a lot of valid questions about Moser. His history before 2018 is not very good, he hasn't had to coach against many P6 programs except in his few NCAA appearances, he has never recruited P6 players, he plays an offensive style that although efficient might not attract some recruits, etc. All valid, yes. That's why I'm not sure where he ranks on my list.
Very easy to state many valid questions about Shaka, too, and they already have been stated. All we talk about here is Wojo not winning NCAAT games ... and this guy hasn't done it in 8 years, which is an eternity. So that's just the start. Two of those losses were to Northern Iowa and Abilene Christian. Plenty of others.
Could go up and down the list of candidates and do this for every one of them -- and, indeed, that's exactly what Scholl & Co. have to do. I'm a big fan of pro/con lists!
I hope you're at least ready to admit that 2018 and 2021 have been better than just "decent" seasons for Loyola, but maybe not. If not, I wonder what a "good" season would be!
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82
Miracles or no miracles, I want a program that we are big favorites in the opening weekend. Every year upsets happen, but I want to see a program were we disappointed being knocked off in the opening weekend, not one that we are driving up and down Wisconsin Ave honking our horns if spring an upset or two.
I am not against Moser one bit, but it seems that the list of candidates is more robust than the last go around. Like I said in a earlier post about coaches knowing their business, my guess fellow coaches would say good for Moser landing the MU gig and he has a chance to turn the program around. Why not get a guy that coaches say behind the scenes that MU landed a great hire. Again, just my take on Moser. I agree he can coach, but I want better players along with a better coach.
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Only 1300 seats bigger than the Al? Frankly there are a lot of high school gyms bigger.
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Why not get a guy that coaches say behind the scenes that MU landed a great hire.
And who do you put on that list, Goose? I know you're a fan of Pitino. I'm not sure if that's realistic or not. And, as I admitted a couple days go, I really don't think I want MU to hire Pitino, but I'll be a little excited if they do. But I really, really don't think that there's a chance in hell that will happen.
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82
Miracles or no miracles, I want a program that we are big favorites in the opening weekend. Every year upsets happen, but I want to see a program were we disappointed being knocked off in the opening weekend, not one that we are driving up and down Wisconsin Ave honking our horns if spring an upset or two.
I am not against Moser one bit, but it seems that the list of candidates is more robust than the last go around. Like I said in a earlier post about coaches knowing their business, my guess fellow coaches would say good for Moser landing the MU gig and he has a chance to turn the program around. Why not get a guy that coaches say behind the scenes that MU landed a great hire. Again, just my take on Moser. I agree he can coach, but I want better players along with a better coach.
All reasonable, Goose.
6 of Shaka's 7 NCAA Tournament wins came long, long ago when he was not the favorite on opening weekend. His only other, back in 2013, was as a 5-seed. Since then, he's been the favorite on opening weekend several times and spit the bit, including against a former D2 team filled with 6-foot-1 guys.
But yes, I get your point.
As I sit here today, I'm in the "I don't know if I'm sold on Moser yet but I'm don't think I'd be against him" camp. Sounds like you're in a similar place, maybe leaning more No than I am.
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StillaWarrior
Realistically Shaka would be my top choice and I stated my reasons earlier today. My love of Pitino is a long love affair and realize MU likely would never hire him and I am fine with that if they chose to stay away from him. I did not know, if factual, that Shaka was a possibility or I would have been on him from the start. There are appears to be some very solid options, if reports are real, and feel MU is in a good place to make a great hire.
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TAMU, I'm asking honestly: what guys with "consistent success" as head coaches do you think are viable candidates? I really don't want to see MU go down the assistant path again. Of the names I'm seeing thrown out consistently, I think several are pretty unrealistic, and several don't have "consistent success" as head coaches. I like both Moser and Shaka...with maybe an edge to Moser based, admittedly, on some recency bias. Both have some things that concern me a bit. While I don't know all that much about Gates, I'm not sure he checks that "consistent success" box as a head coach.
My far and away #1 is Craig Smith. He's literally won a coach of the year award at every institution he's head coached for. He consistently outperforms expectations and has built every program he's been a part of. Someone else said it but I agree, I think he profiles similarly to Chris Beard.
Smart was an example of consistent success at VCU. He struggled at Texas but even struggling he had them in the NCAA conversation every year but one and I think there were legitimate reasons outside his control for his lack of success. I think a change of scenery could lead to big success for him.
Beilein is the model of consistent success but the whole thing with the "Thugs" comment bothers me. To be clear, I could absolutely get past it as a person, but the negative recruiting tactics would be so easy. There are so many good coaches these days, why give time to the one who called his team full of mostly Black players thugs?
Not a model of consistent success but high on my list is Dennis Gates. I'll be honest, that's a pure gut feeling pick. I like what he's done so far, I like his recruiting chops from Florida State, and I like that he learned from Leonard Hamilton...but there simply isn't enough data to say that he's the guy for sure. Hoping to scoop up a future great before he blows up. Could end up being a dud. High risk, high reward.
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82
Not 100% against Moser and I hope he keeps winning and makes $3m a year for the next decade. He is similar to Rick in loving the coaching side of the game. I talked with Rick countless hours and he loved coaching and he really did not care who was on the team. He was that good of a coach that he could make any team competitive and I think Moser has a lot of Rick in him. Rick hated recruiting and it cost him an even greater career. The two times he had players, once at Ball St and once at Utah, he had great March success. If he had put in effort into getting players he would have won an awful lot more.
I have stated my love of Rick on here a million times and the Moser and Rick relationship actually scares me. There are some coaches that just love coaching and making guys better. I think the odds of winning with that mindset is better suited for Loyola or SLU than MU.
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I doubt Shaka would have the talent he had at Texas at MU. I don’t know if I can take anymore not getting the most out of the players talent.
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StillaWarrior
Realistically Shaka would be my top choice and I stated my reasons earlier today. My love of Pitino is a long love affair and realize MU likely would never hire him and I am fine with that if they chose to stay away from him. I did not know, if factual, that Shaka was a possibility or I would have been on him from the start. There are appears to be some very solid options, if reports are real, and feel MU is in a good place to make a great hire.
Thanks, Goose. I certainly would not be upset with Shaka (very happy, in fact), but I'm not completely sold. TAMU makes some good points, but there are very few programs that have the resources that Texas has. I just kind of don't like the feel of firing Wojo because he had no tournament wins and then turning around and hiring a coach that also had no tournament wins in his last stop despite having extraordinary resources at his disposal. That said, I absolutely acknowledge that focusing solely on tournament wins misses some of the ways that Shaka is much better than Wojo. But my biggest concern about him is a failure to "get it done" in a program with great resources.
My biggest concern about Moser is whether he can recruit at a high major level. It's impossible to know for sure. But I think it is sometimes unfair to knock a mid-major HC for not being able to recruit -- it's a heck of a lot harder to recruit to LCU than to MU.
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I hope you're at least ready to admit that 2018 and 2021 have been better than just "decent" seasons for Loyola, but maybe not. If not, I wonder what a "good" season would be!
No matter how it ends, this year is better than decent. 2018, they made a nice run but that just shows the crapshoot of the tourney. They got miracle finishes against Miami and Tennessee then avoided the 2-seed and 1-seed to get to the Final Four in a region that went to shambles. They finished #31 in kenpom, 12 spots behind NIT champion Penn State.
This year they are legitimately good. People saying they are better than the 2018 team are completely right, because the 2018 team wasn't very good, at least not by Final Four standards. When Shaka made his similarly improbable Final Four run, he used that to spark consistent success. Moser didn't, and didn't have a track record before to indicate years like this are the norm.
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82
Miracles or no miracles, I want a program that we are big favorites in the opening weekend. Every year upsets happen, but I want to see a program were we disappointed being knocked off in the opening weekend, not one that we are driving up and down Wisconsin Ave honking our horns if spring an upset or two.
I am not against Moser one bit, but it seems that the list of candidates is more robust than the last go around. Like I said in a earlier post about coaches knowing their business, my guess fellow coaches would say good for Moser landing the MU gig and he has a chance to turn the program around. Why not get a guy that coaches say behind the scenes that MU landed a great hire. Again, just my take on Moser. I agree he can coach, but I want better players along with a better coach.
C'mon Goose. I agree that the "list" of candidates looks good, but nobody knows how many on that "list" are available/interested. I mean we have heard names of Matta and Beilein not interested, Pitino that Scholl has already ruled out, Gates who some say will jump when Fla. State calls and so on.We do not even know if Moser is interested, but he deserves to be near the top. We all want better players with a better coach, so if Moser is not your choice, who fits the bill of better players with a better coach. Pitino would get better players and is a better coach. Smart would get better players, but it does not appear he is a better coach. So who fits your bill?
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Only 1300 seats bigger than the Al? Frankly there are a lot of high school gyms bigger.
Mrs Moser, how many HS gyms do you know that seat 5000 people? Outside of Indiana
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I doubt Shaka would have the talent he had at Texas at MU. I don’t know if I can take anymore not getting the most out of the players talent.
Exactly. Enough of that. Shaka is way down my list.
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StillaWarrior
Realistically Shaka would be my top choice and I stated my reasons earlier today. My love of Pitino is a long love affair and realize MU likely would never hire him and I am fine with that if they chose to stay away from him. I did not know, if factual, that Shaka was a possibility or I would have been on him from the start. There are appears to be some very solid options, if reports are real, and feel MU is in a good place to make a great hire.
Sorry Goose. Did not see this post when I responded to another of your posts. So Shaka or Pitino would be your choices. Unsure if either is a realistic possibility.
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Mrs Moser, how many HS gyms do you know that seat 5000 people? Outside of Indiana
Lol. When you use names like a child I think we’re done.
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My far and away #1 is Craig Smith. He's literally won a coach of the year award at every institution he's head coached for. He consistently outperforms expectations and has built every program he's been a part of. Someone else said it but I agree, I think he profiles similarly to Chris Beard.
Smart was an example of consistent success at VCU. He struggled at Texas but even struggling he had them in the NCAA conversation every year but one and I think there were legitimate reasons outside his control for his lack of success. I think a change of scenery could lead to big success for him.
Beilein is the model of consistent success but the whole thing with the "Thugs" comment bothers me. To be clear, I could absolutely get past it as a person, but the negative recruiting tactics would be so easy. There are so many good coaches these days, why give time to the one who called his team full of mostly Black players thugs?
Not a model of consistent success but high on my list is Dennis Gates. I'll be honest, that's a pure gut feeling pick. I like what he's done so far, I like his recruiting chops from Florida State, and I like that he learned from Leonard Hamilton...but there simply isn't enough data to say that he's the guy for sure. Hoping to scoop up a future great before he blows up. Could end up being a dud. High risk, high reward.
Thanks for that list, TAMU. Can't believe I forgot about Beilein's "thugs" comment -- excellent point about negative recruiting. Plus, his age. And the son thing. I don't know.
Smith and Gates sound great. I am no expert on either Utah State or Cleveland State basketball. Not sure if I've seen 3 minutes of them combined. So I'll take the word of those I respect, and you're certainly in that category.
Shaka ... I think the very best argument for him is the change-of-scenery one, and it's a pretty big one. There have been many cases of a change of scenery helping a coach or athlete reach his or her potential. Shaka no doubt has been humbled by his Texas experience, and very possibly realizes the grass isn't always greener.
When your AD specifically cites lack of NCAA tournament success as a main reason for firing the coach and then replaces that coach with a guy who is 0-fer over 8 years ... I hope you understand why, optics-wise, that's not easy for some to digest. Especially when the last one was against a team that was such an inferior opponent.
It's hard to believe that, 7 years later, we're right back here talkin' about Shaka Effen Smart, but we are.
Haven't decided where Moser fits in all of this for me. I know I wouldn't hate the hire.
Whoever our guy is, I will support him as I have supported every Marquette coach.
We Are Marquette!
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wllie
I just got the phone with my rabbi and we talked Rick and Moser for quite some time. Moser can flat out and coach and I would not be angry if he ended up the hire. I do have serious questions about his ability to recruit at BE at level. Some guys, albeit very few, love coaching for the sake of coaching. Rick LOVED making stiffs into players, within his system and Moser being a Rick guy has me worried.
FYI--If Rick were alive and healthy today I would have the same reservations if MU wanted to hire him. I loved Rick coaching a crappy program and work his magic because it was a thing of beauty. There is not a coach around today that would ever dispute Rick was a top five basketball guy, college or pro, and says a lot.
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Lol. When you use names like a child I think we’re done.
Classic deflection when your arguments aren’t backed up with facts. You’re bordering on breathless with your enthusiasm and fervor for Porter. By tonight, Loyola will be a D3 school playing in a church basement with a team of rag tag cripples lead only by Mosers force of will. But sure, I’m childish for making a joke when you’re spouting baseless nonsense. You called them Loyola Marymount like an hour ago
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No matter how it ends, this year is better than decent. 2018, they made a nice run but that just shows the crapshoot of the tourney. They got miracle finishes against Miami and Tennessee then avoided the 2-seed and 1-seed to get to the Final Four in a region that went to shambles. They finished #31 in kenpom, 12 spots behind NIT champion Penn State.
This year they are legitimately good. People saying they are better than the 2018 team are completely right, because the 2018 team wasn't very good, at least not by Final Four standards. When Shaka made his similarly improbable Final Four run, he used that to spark consistent success. Moser didn't, and didn't have a track record before to indicate years like this are the norm.
Respectfully, this has gotten silly.
You use KenPom in a supporting way when it fits your preference, but dismiss it when it doesn’t. Now 31 KenPom isn’t good when higher has been in your other posts about others?
This season, literally just over two months ago, you were ready for Brian Wardle. Today he isn’t on your radar.
Again, I don’t really care about who you like and don’t, but you are being disingenuous at best here.
I would rather you say you don’t like Moser, but you realize his resume has been better than others you have advocated, here recently etc...
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a D3 school playing in a church basement with a team of rag tag cripples
For a second, I thought you were talking about Abilene Christian ... but you didn't mention that they also were incredibly short and couldn't shoot, so you must be talkin' about someone else!!
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Your joke didn’t even make sense. And there are at least 16 hs gyms bigger than Loyolas.
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Respectfully, this has gotten silly.
You use KenPom in a supporting way when it fits your preference, but dismiss it when it doesn’t. Now 31 KenPom isn’t good when higher has been in your other posts about others?
This season, literally just over two months ago, you were ready for Brian Wardle. Today he isn’t on your radar.
Again, I don’t really care about who you like and don’t, but you are being disingenuous at best here.
I would rather you say you don’t like Moser, but you realize his resume has been better than others you have advocated, here recently etc...
Well, I don't really care what you would rather. Saying "I don't like Moser" wouldn't be true. I don't like him as much as some others that are in the mix.
Also, I would 100% take Wardle over Wojo. I think Wardle is a superior coach to Wojo. So in December of last year, I would've taken Wardle over Wojo. But I'm basing my thoughts now on who we are showing interest in. Wojo is gone, so he's no longer the baseline, nor is Wardle.
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Your joke didn’t even make sense. And there are at least 16 hs gyms bigger than Loyolas.
“Frankly there are a lot of gyms bigger than Loyola”
And now you have less than 20. Nearly all of which are in Indiana. But sure.
“A lot of HS basketball players are drafted into the NBA each year” would be the same kind of statement. But sure, I’m not making sense. Admit it, you assumed the AL had like 1000 seats
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Impressive win by Loyola. Better than any wins in their first FF run.
This moves Moser up in my book. If Marquette hires him, I'd support him.
But I gotta wonder if the administration is willing to wait that long and risk missing out on their other options.
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Really nobody cares wags, my point was Loyola has a tiny playing facility.
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Well, I don't really care what you would rather. Saying "I don't like Moser" wouldn't be true. I don't like him as much as some others that are in the mix.
Also, I would 100% take Wardle over Wojo. I think Wardle is a superior coach to Wojo. So in December of last year, I would've taken Wardle over Wojo. But I'm basing my thoughts now on who we are showing interest in. Wojo is gone, so he's no longer the baseline, nor is Wardle.
Stay classy.
You keep saying December of last year. It was Dec 28, 2020, and there post days follow up in support of it.
You routinely pump up KenPom when it supports someone you prefer, and, dismiss it when it doesn’t. That’s disingenuous. Final Four Runs are lucky here but not there. They are important here but not there. Winning your league is important here but not there. How you do vs your peers matters here but not there. etc...
You don’t like Moser as much as others. Nothing wrong with that. But it isn’t because of the numbers. You’ve illustrated that.
*disclaimer I am not advocating for Moser to be MUBB HC.
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Stay classy.
Did you read your own post?
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Did you read your own post?
Each time the goalposts move or subject gets changed.
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Each time the goalposts move or subject gets changed.
Considering all you want to do is move the goalpost back to last December, I think you'd have a better grasp on the "classy" stuff you're writing.
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Considering all you want to do is move the goalpost back to last December, I think you'd have a better grasp on the "classy" stuff you're writing.
Your opinion two months ago included many years of results, data, etc...your opinion of many years of evaluation changed pretty dramatically now. All the way back two whole months ago, inconsistent KenPom ratings all in the 100’s for four years straight at Bradley didn’t matter. You have also posted here before about pretty much saying what matters to you about NCAA post seasons are Final Fours. I even thought that sounded extreme. Not a lot of people have those. You have also mentioned the value of winning your league etc...
Can you see where this might be confusing to some?
It’s all good. I have respect for you BrewCity77. We all want the same thing here, for as highly successful of an MUBB program annually as possible. Hopefully MU will make a good choice.
I am gonna use that 31 KenPom isn’t good if Penn St. is 12 spots ahead of you that he mentioned. It’s kind of like when the Jesuit uses traveler’s dispensation when he doesn’t want the fish sandwich at McDonald’s, and goes for the burger on Friday’s during Lent.
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Hey guys
KenPom arguments are for bubble teams. I do not think Gonzaga or Nova fans debate their KenPom rankings. Build a winning program and leave the KenPom discussions for the SLU's of the world.
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In 4 hours we went from:
'we should for sure look at Moser in our top 5' to
'Moser has to be our number one pick' to
'we can't afford him and he's too big for us' to
'we missed our window he's going to the NBA' to
'we're going to lose him to DePaul'
Or Indiana.
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I still think Wardle could be a good coach, but he'd be behind Smart, Smith, and Beilein for obvious reasons and Gates because I like the proven recruiting record.
And one concern with Moser is also style. I'm not sure what he does translates at the high major level for a full season. If he is our guy, I'm fine with it. He's an upgrade. But he's not at the top of my list.
1. Smart has way underperformed as a coach at Texas.
2. Any coaching style translates at the high major level if you get your guys and they buy in.
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Who is a better BE talent recruiter, Smith or Moser? There is your hire.
Btw, I think Huntsman outbids us for Smith.
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My far and away #1 is Craig Smith. He's literally won a coach of the year award at every institution he's head coached for. He consistently outperforms expectations and has built every program he's been a part of. Someone else said it but I agree, I think he profiles similarly to Chris Beard.
Smart was an example of consistent success at VCU. He struggled at Texas but even struggling he had them in the NCAA conversation every year but one and I think there were legitimate reasons outside his control for his lack of success. I think a change of scenery could lead to big success for him.
Beilein is the model of consistent success but the whole thing with the "Thugs" comment bothers me. To be clear, I could absolutely get past it as a person, but the negative recruiting tactics would be so easy. There are so many good coaches these days, why give time to the one who called his team full of mostly Black players thugs?
Not a model of consistent success but high on my list is Dennis Gates. I'll be honest, that's a pure gut feeling pick. I like what he's done so far, I like his recruiting chops from Florida State, and I like that he learned from Leonard Hamilton...but there simply isn't enough data to say that he's the guy for sure. Hoping to scoop up a future great before he blows up. Could end up being a dud. High risk, high reward.
Absolutely, totally with you on Smith and Gates. I would be very happy with either.
I am less enthusiastic about Shaka, because his middling performance at UT despite a mountain of resources and the nearby talent pool. And yes there were some factors beyond his control, but that is the case for most every coach. Zero NCAA wins in six seasons at a wealthy school with a great recent history is still a red flag for me.
Beilein would probably be very effective, but I am worried about the longevity of a 68-year old coach. And the “thugs” comment is a concern as well.
I would also include Moser despite his inconsistent performance that you note. A final four and a sweet 16 in a four year stretch at a school like Loyola is pretty darn impressive.
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My far and away #1 is Craig Smith. He's literally won a coach of the year award at every institution he's head coached for. He consistently outperforms expectations and has built every program he's been a part of. Someone else said it but I agree, I think he profiles similarly to Chris Beard.
Do you share the following concerns in regards to Craig Smith?
- Has never won a game in the NCAA tournament as a head coach
- Has only been the head coach at schools located in North Dakota, South Dakota, and Utah.
- Has never coached in any capacity at a school east of the Mississippi River
- Has only has 2 years of experience at the high major level which was at Nebraska as an assistant coach from 2012-2014
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In 4 hours we went from:
'we should for sure look at Moser in our top 5' to
'Moser has to be our number one pick' to
'we can't afford him and he's too big for us' to
'we missed our window he's going to the NBA' to
'we're going to lose him to DePaul'
Standard Scoop take.
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In 2018, I wouldn't have wanted anything to do with Moser. Today I'd put him in my top-5 of candidates. Today was impressive, though it is only his second career top-20 win per kenpom. After pulling that Tennessee upset, they got a really fortunate draw in 2018 while that region fell into the toilet.
And echo everything TAMU said. There's stuff to like, but there are a lot of valid questions, and that's before getting to his lack of recruiting history.
Not sure what you mean by recruiting history. Mid-majors don't generally get the top guys. Almost ever. Not being able to recruit Top 100 players to Loyola says nothing about his recruiting ability.
BTW, I'd be fine with Moser if he is determined to be the best guy out there. Hopefully, due diligence will be done before making a selection.
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Best guy out there willing to come to MU. Takes mutual interest.
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I've seen the stats, watched the game. By that Moser seems fine. My gut says no though.
Could just be the harissa chicken.
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Not sure what you mean by recruiting history. Mid-majors don't generally get the top guys. Almost ever. Not being able to recruit Top 100 players to Loyola says nothing about his recruiting ability.
BTW, I'd be fine with Moser if he is determined to be the best guy out there. Hopefully, due diligence will be done before making a selection.
Right.
Moser's last five classes have ranked first or second the The Valley. Against his peers, he's a top recruiter. Whether that translates to winning recruiting battles at a higher level, who knows. But it would be unrealistic to expect him to land a lot of four-star kids at Loyola. Nobody at that level does.
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All reasonable, Goose.
6 of Shaka's 7 NCAA Tournament wins came long, long ago when he was not the favorite on opening weekend. His only other, back in 2013, was as a 5-seed. Since then, he's been the favorite on opening weekend several times and spit the bit, including against a former D2 team filled with 6-foot-1 guys.
But yes, I get your point.
As I sit here today, I'm in the "I don't know if I'm sold on Moser yet but I'm don't think I'd be against him" camp. Sounds like you're in a similar place, maybe leaning more No than I am.
ACU was in the tourney in 2019 and is in their 8th year at D1. 27, 20, and 23 wins the last three seasons. They’ve fully established themselves as a successful D1 program. Oh, and only four guys on the roster under 6-1.
And all of this success despite a strict no sex policy at the university.
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Right.
Moser's last five classes have ranked first or second the The Valley. Against his peers, he's a top recruiter. Whether that translates to winning recruiting battles at a higher level, who knows. But it would be unrealistic to expect him to land a lot of four-star kids at Loyola. Nobody at that level does.
I compare it to what Wichita St did post-FF. Of course he won’t be snagging Top 100 guys. But Marshall used to the exposure to bring in a number of Top 150, Top 125 guys, in addition to top JuCo guys (which obviously is not Moser’s MO, but it was similar level talent.
Moser, even with the FF bump, has never recruited a player in the top 250 to Loyola. Go back to SLU. In his years there, he only helped recruit 2 top 200 recruits (Mitchell and Thompson in his first class with Rick). No further top 200 recruits until he left for Loyola.
His Xs and Os are without question. But I think the recruiting is a very fair concern. Just cause he recruited as well as other mid major schools in his conference, doesn’t mean he’ll naturally graduate up when he hasn’t for the last 20 years
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Not sure what you mean by recruiting history. Mid-majors don't generally get the top guys. Almost ever. Not being able to recruit Top 100 players to Loyola says nothing about his recruiting ability.
BTW, I'd be fine with Moser if he is determined to be the best guy out there. Hopefully, due diligence will be done before making a selection.
Recruiting history means just that, he hasn't done it. And he runs a system that on its face won't be one that appeals to the kind of recruits we likely need to succeed in the Big East and beyond.
If it's Moser, I'll be very interested in his staff. Retaining Gainey would be a good start. Another recruiter and offensive specialist would help. I feel like of our candidates, Moser needs the strongest staff around him because I think the learning curve is steeper than for a Shaka or Gates who have extensive high major experience.
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wllie
I just got the phone with my rabbi and we talked Rick and Moser for quite some time. Moser can flat out and coach and I would not be angry if he ended up the hire. I do have serious questions about his ability to recruit at BE at level. Some guys, albeit very few, love coaching for the sake of coaching. Rick LOVED making stiffs into players, within his system and Moser being a Rick guy has me worried.
FYI--If Rick were alive and healthy today I would have the same reservations if MU wanted to hire him. I loved Rick coaching a crappy program and work his magic because it was a thing of beauty. There is not a coach around today that would ever dispute Rick was a top five basketball guy, college or pro, and says a lot.
You really talk BB with your Rabbi? Now that is awesome. Rick Majerus was one of a kind and a basketball junkie. Too bad he did not get the support at MU he needed when BB was changing. I know very little about Moser prior to Loyola, but I am impressed with what he is doing. Other than Pitino, the ability of any of the speculated candidates to recruit at the Beast level could be questioned, except Shaka, and he has not done all that well in the dance since he is at Texas. I just do not believe right now that he is interested in MU, based on what happened previously. Right now my top 5, based on what I know would likely be:
1. Moser
2. Shaka Kahn
3. Craig Smith
4. Gates
5. Pitino
Pitino would be #1 based on his success, but apparently Scholl has ruled out his past NCAA discrepancies. He would still be worth pursuing if interested and has learned. If MU wanted to improve the quickest to the heights, Pitino would be the best--baggage or not.
But hell, who knows who else might be out there that could be interested. Moser does seem like an ideal fit, and he sure as hell can coach.
Realize the importance of doing a thorough search, but MU must also get their guy quickly so that the rebuild can begin quickly.
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ACU was in the tourney in 2019 and is in their 8th year at D1. 27, 20, and 23 wins the last three seasons. They’ve fully established themselves as a successful D1 program. Oh, and only four guys on the roster under 6-1.
And all of this success despite a strict no sex policy at the university.
Ah, that all explains why they totally outworked a 3-seed and why their coach outmaneuvered one of the most overhyped guys of the last decade. Stoopid NCAA; shoulda seeded the Southland Conference champ 4th or better!
I don't think your last line applies anymore, though, because Abilene Christian sure f----- Texas.
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The other one I feel strongly about today is Syracuse over WVU. Boeheim is always tough to prepare for on short rest and, despite their shooting, West Virginia is terrible against zone. Like worst in the field terrible. I also learned in the past that just because Boeheim got an undeserved bid doesn't mean he won't make a Sweet 16.
There ya go.
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I thought West Virginia was press Virginia? Had they pressed the whole game,it might have been different. What happened to Culver? Didn't hardly play second half.
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Recruiting history means just that, he hasn't done it. And he runs a system that on its face won't be one that appeals to the kind of recruits we likely need to succeed in the Big East and beyond.
If it's Moser, I'll be very interested in his staff. Retaining Gainey would be a good start. Another recruiter and offensive specialist would help. I feel like of our candidates, Moser needs the strongest staff around him because I think the learning curve is steeper than for a Shaka or Gates who have extensive high major experience.
I was just giving another angle - not disagreeing with you.
Back to recruiting though, I have a question for you and Wags Or anyone else). How important do you rate assistant coaching in recruiting? They are doing most of the legwork. Obviously certain coaches are the draw - that is the reason, K, Cal, Izzo, Roy, etc. get the one-and dones. My question is more pointed at the non-"superstar" coaches.
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I thought West Virginia was press Virginia? Had they pressed the whole game,it might have been different. What happened to Culver? Didn't hardly play second half.
Press Virginia largely ended when Jevon Carter left. Kudos to Huggy creating an identity around offense and shooters, but there were always some flaws with this team.
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Illinois had better athletes and much higher rated players at every position. And their coach is no slouch. And Loyola dominated from start to finish. Moser can take his and beat yours or take yours and beat his. That’s a rare quality in a coach. I don’t know if he can recruit BE level talent or not. He’s never had the resources to even try. I wouldn’t be averse to MU giving him the opportunity.
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Lenny
I agree with your post. I would not be disappointed but do worry about the step up in recruiting. While I would love to see a great coach on the sideline, I am greedy and want great players as well.
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Illinois had better athletes and much higher rated players at every position. And their coach is no slouch. And Loyola dominated from start to finish. Moser can take his and beat yours or take yours and beat his. That’s a rare quality in a coach. I don’t know if he can recruit BE level talent or not. He’s never had the resources to even try. I wouldn’t be averse to MU giving him the opportunity.
Love the use of that old Bum Phillips quote about Don Shula, Lenny. And you're entire post captures my feelings.
Can we get somebody "better" than Moser? We'll see. Can we even get Moser? We'll see about that, too. But the guy has a pretty nice body of work these last few years, when even his "down" years saw Loyola win a regular-season conference title and be league runners-up. Certainly one for the list, anyway.
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Pretty cool Moser/Majerus video. I’m a sucker for a good YouTube video to sell me on a coach. I was convinced Cuonzo would do well based on a mic’d up video. Which is why my opinion should not be taken too seriously.
https://youtu.be/HDdQEipYajw
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Do you share the following concerns in regards to Craig Smith?
- Has never won a game in the NCAA tournament as a head coach
- As a head coach he's been at schools located in the states of North Dakota, South Dakota, and Utah.
- Has never coached in any capacity at a school east of the Mississippi River
- Has only has 2 years of experience at the high major level which was at Nebraska as an assistant coach from 2012-2014
No, no, no, yes
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Illinois had better athletes and much higher rated players at every position. And their coach is no slouch. And Loyola dominated from start to finish. Moser can take his and beat yours or take yours and beat his. That’s a rare quality in a coach. I don’t know if he can recruit BE level talent or not. He’s never had the resources to even try. I wouldn’t be averse to MU giving him the opportunity.
Dah. Do you think?
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Back to recruiting though, I have a question for you and Wags Or anyone else). How important do you rate assistant coaching in recruiting? They are doing most of the legwork. Obviously certain coaches are the draw - that is the reason, K, Cal, Izzo, Roy, etc. get the one-and dones. My question is more pointed at the non-"superstar" coaches.
Obviously they are very important and get a lot of heavy lifting done. But as mentioned, Moser has been recruiting at the sub-200 level for the last 20 years at UALR, ISU, SLU, and now Loyola. Assuming he can just bring in assistants that can elevate that AND sell his more difficult to sell system is a big ask. Does he have former assistants that moved into bigger programs and recruited well there that he can tap into? That I don’t know.
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No, no, no, yes
There are viable candidates that have had success in the NCAA tournament. Why aren't you concerned that Craig Smith has never won a tournament game?
Furthermore, why aren't you concerned that Smith's head coaching jobs have only been in the Dakotas and Utah? Those areas aren't exactly hotbeds for recruiting Big East talent.
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I compare it to what Wichita St did post-FF. Of course he won’t be snagging Top 100 guys. But Marshall used to the exposure to bring in a number of Top 150, Top 125 guys, in addition to top JuCo guys (which obviously is not Moser’s MO, but it was similar level talent.
Moser, even with the FF bump, has never recruited a player in the top 250 to Loyola. Go back to SLU. In his years there, he only helped recruit 2 top 200 recruits (Mitchell and Thompson in his first class with Rick). No further top 200 recruits until he left for Loyola.
His Xs and Os are without question. But I think the recruiting is a very fair concern. Just cause he recruited as well as other mid major schools in his conference, doesn’t mean he’ll naturally graduate up when he hasn’t for the last 20 years
Some people here might remember some of the kids Moser and Majerus recruited to SLU, because several were from Chicago, Milwaukee, Twin Cities, KC, etc...
They were all very good basketball players, that often had team success as well. Mike McCall Jr. was 2nd Team All State, helped lead Foreman to their first Public League Title. Dwayne Evans was 3rd Team All State at Nequa Valley. Both played on highly ranked, good, teams all year. Jordair Jett was also all State in Minnesota out of St. Paul, helping lead his team to their first state title game appearance, before helping Notre Dame Prep to the 4 seed in the Prep Tourney. Kwamain Mitchell played at Whitefish Bay Dominican in Milwaukee and had some success there. Willie Reed (KC) played with Femi John (before his career ending injuries) and knew their family. Will John, Femi's cousin, was a star soccer player at SLU.
When Moser was there he would often go out and recruit some of these players. When he liked a player, he'd later bring Majerus. Many were overlooked because they were either overshadowed by someone else, or they didn't have the height, were a tweener, or this or that or didn't run with the popular AAU team. Various things. In many cases more Power 5 schools would come in later or late that weren't there earlier, and/or the ones that did weren't a fit.
SLU went 14, 19, 35 KenPom with that group of.recruits. Recruiting dropped off a lot after Moser left.
This is an article example of Majerus and his recruitment of Brian Conklin. (After this article they finished 14 KenPom that year and lost to 1 seed, and 3 KenPom Michigan St. by 4 points in NCAA Rd 32) Conklin was a two time first team all state and won a state title in Oregon.
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/2012/03/canzano_rick_majeras_saw_somet.html
That's how they did it at SLU.
The expectation is recruiting elevates as conference and resources elevate.
The expectation is that one puts a staff together that can recruit good enough players to win at high levels etc...If you are looking for someone that has already lit up the recruiting services rankings, you'd have to look elsewhere.
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Obviously they are very important and get a lot of heavy lifting done. But as mentioned, Moser has been recruiting at the sub-200 level for the last 20 years at UALR, ISU, SLU, and now Loyola. Assuming he can just bring in assistants that can elevate that AND sell his more difficult to sell system is a big ask. Does he have former assistants that moved into bigger programs and recruited well there that he can tap into? That I don’t know.
It's a fair question, but there are successful high major recruiters who came from lower levels.
Scott Drew never coached above the Horizon League before landing at Baylor.
Ben Howland never coached in the P6 before getting the Pitt job.
There's definitely a risk, and it's why Moser wouldn't be my first choice. But there are no flawless candidates for Marquette.
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But there are no flawless candidates for Marquette.
Of course there are. We just need one of those P6 head coaches that makes the tournament pretty much every year, plays on the second weekend most years, and makes the occasional Final Four.
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Of course there are. We just need one of those P6 head coaches that makes the tournament pretty much every year, plays on the second weekend most years, and makes the occasional Final Four.
True, a simple set of requirements.
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Of course there are. We just need one of those P6 head coaches that makes the tournament pretty much every year, plays on the second weekend most years, and makes the occasional Final Four.
Now why didn't I think of that?
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Now why didn't I think of that?
Don’t feel bad. I’m kind of a basketball savant.
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It's a fair question, but there are successful high major recruiters who came from lower levels.
Scott Drew never coached above the Horizon League before landing at Baylor.
Ben Howland never coached in the P6 before getting the Pitt job.
There's definitely a risk, and it's why Moser wouldn't be my first choice. But there are no flawless candidates for Marquette.
Who’s your first choice?
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Who’s your first choice?
Beilein.
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Of course there are. We just need one of those P6 head coaches that makes the tournament pretty much every year, plays on the second weekend most years, and makes the occasional Final Four.
So winning the conference reg season/tourney isn't important to you? Tells me a lot.
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Of course there are. We just need one of those P6 head coaches that makes the tournament pretty much every year, plays on the second weekend most years, and makes the occasional Final Four.
After disappointing seasons, is Kentucky turning Cal loose, Duke dumping K or Sparty canning Izzo?
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Lenny
I agree with your post. I would not be disappointed but do worry about the step up in recruiting. While I would love to see a great coach on the sideline, I am greedy and want great players as well.
Wojo could recruit but not coach, Moser can coach but can he recruit is an open question. From what were seeing at least we know he will get the best and perhaps even more than the best out of the players he does recruit. Quite frankly I think he'll be fine at MU. How many coaches can say to a recruit I have been to the final 4 and I can do it with you here at MU. But what do I know, I am just a 74 year old fart that graduated 50 years ago. I would like to see how he would develop Carton, Garcia and Lewis. In fact I think they would stay to play for a coach that instills a winning attitude in his players.
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After disappointing seasons, is Kentucky turning Cal loose, Duke dumping K or Sparty canning Izzo?
I’m not sold on any of those guys. Cal has some baggage, K is too connected to Wojo, and Izzo really underperformed this year. Me and Pakuni are wanting someone flawless.
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I’m not sold on any of those guys. Cal has some baggage, K is too connected to Wojo, and Izzo really underperformed this year. Me and Pakuni are wanting someone flawless.
Lets clone John Wooden.
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I’m not sold on any of those guys. Cal has some baggage, K is too connected to Wojo, and Izzo really underperformed this year. Me and Pakuni are wanting someone flawless.
the Izzo --> Crean connection is much more damning than this one year
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I’m not sold on any of those guys. Cal has some baggage, K is too connected to Wojo, and Izzo really underperformed this year. Me and Pakuni are wanting someone flawless.
Reasonable.
Coach Ditka it is then, my friends!
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Lets clone John Wooden.
And have guys like Sam Gilbert lurking about? Hard pass.
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Reasonable.
Coach Ditka it is then, my friends!
Mini? Or full-sized?
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Ted Davis voice of the Bucks I Believe Tweeted.
Memo to Marquette grab the I-Pass Ramble South on I-94 go visit Sister Jean and see if she will put in a good word to Porter Moser! Jesuit to Jesuit.
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Everyone of you guys out there is looking at Porter Moser through Blue and Gold glasses. I appreciate the enthusiasm but lets try looking at this situation from Moser’s current situation.
1) Moser already has accomplished more than any Marquette coach since Tom Crean and could do it again this year. He’s in a conference where he has proven he both can recruit to win and to be a regular winner in the NCAA.
2) As a Loyola MBA, I’m sorry to say this, but Porter Moser will NOT win the NCAA Championship at Loyola. Not this year. Not ever. At some point, talent takes over and the Final Four usually is that point.
3) The only reason Porter Moser leaves is if he has a platform that would enable him to up his game with better recruits, better resources, and a capability to be National Champions. That’s why he did not go to St. John’s a few years ago and why DePaul won’t win his services. I could see Indiana, maybe Minnesota as options if that’s what he wanted.
Given Items 2 and 3, from his perspective, I question whether Marquette, right now, is enough of a step-up to put him in a position to recruit the talent necessary to be national champions. The core talent here now and signed for next year may be better than anything he’s coached in awhile but it’s probably not good enough without a lot of work for Marquette under Moser to contend for a national title.
For this reason, I don’t think Moser is coming to Marquette. That and he’s a die0hard Chicago guy.
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Ted Davis voice of the Bucks I Believe Tweeted.
Memo to Marquette grab the I-Pass Ramble South on I-94 go visit Sister Jean and see if she will put in a good word to Porter Moser! Jesuit to Jesuit.
I like Ted Davis as a radio PBP guy, but as someone who listens to him a fair bit on his radio show...he doesn’t know much at all about CBB. He’s painful when talking about it
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Everyone of you guys out there is looking at Porter Moser through Blue and Gold glasses. I appreciate the enthusiasm but lets try looking at this situation from Moser’s current situation.
1) Moser already has accomplished more than any Marquette coach since Tom Crean and could do it again this year. He’s in a conference where he has proven he both can recruit to win and to be a regular winner in the NCAA.
2) As a Loyola MBA, I’m sorry to say this, but Porter Moser will NOT win the NCAA Championship at Loyola. Not this year. Not ever. At some point, talent takes over and the Final Four usually is that point.
3) The only reason Porter Moser leaves is if he has a platform that would enable him to up his game with better recruits, better resources, and a capability to be National Champions. That’s why he did not go to St. John’s a few years ago and why DePaul won’t win his services. I could see Indiana, maybe Minnesota as options if that’s what he wanted.
Given Items 2 and 3, from his perspective, I question whether Marquette, right now, is enough of a step-up to put him in a position to recruit the talent necessary to be national champions. The core talent here now and signed for next year may be better than anything he’s coached in awhile but it’s probably not good enough without a lot of work for Marquette under Moser to contend for a national title.
For this reason, I don’t think Moser is coming to Marquette. That and he’s a die0hard Chicago guy.
Do you think Minnesota is a better job than Marquette? They had success in the 90s but got nothing but a vacated final four to show for it. Definitely think Indiana offers most visibility and easier to recruit to for Moser than any job available but I think Marquette offers Moser a path to yearly tourneys and he’s proven when he gets in he can do damage.
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Reasonable.
Coach Ditka it is then, my friends!
This might be the first thing we have ever agreed on. Ditka to MU.
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There are viable candidates that have had success in the NCAA tournament. Why aren't you concerned that Craig Smith has never won a tournament game?
Because winning in the tournament is a terrible measure for projecting successful high major coaches.
Furthermore, why aren't you concerned that Smith's head coaching jobs have only been in the Dakotas and Utah? Those areas aren't exactly hotbeds for recruiting Big East talent.
Because when he was in the Dakotas he didn't just recruit the Dakotas. He recruited Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Illinois heavily. And at Utah he hasn't just recruited Utah, he's actually become an expert in international recruiting, pulling kids from Russia, Australia, and Canada. Also because in his three years at Utah St, he's recruited 5 out of the 10 highest rated recruits in school history per 247.
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Starting to hear some rumors/speculation that I4 is interested in Moser. Dont know how much of that to believe. But we should know in two weeks or less how much Moser "covets" the MU gig. Meanwhile, the sentiment should be Screw I4.
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Mini? Or full-sized?
Regular Ditka might be unfair to the rest of the Big East, so we should take mercy on those pitiful chumps and go with Mini Ditka.
My friend.
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My son, an Illinois alum, texted me: "Unbelievable. We got severely outcoached."
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My son, an Illinois alum, texted me: "Unbelievable. We got severely outcoached."
Well, Duh!
Illinois had more and deeper talent. Loyola planned and executed.
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Well, Duh!
Illinois had more and deeper talent. Loyola planned and executed.
Yeah, I wasn't trying to present it as deep analysis that couldn't be found anywhere else. I was just presenting it as an Illinois guy who noted Underwood's shortcomings even as Underwood has gotten praise from all quarters, as well as the job Moser did.
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Starting to hear some rumors/speculation that I4 is interested in Moser. Dont know how much of that to believe. But we should know in two weeks or less how much Moser "covets" the MU gig. Meanwhile, the sentiment should be Screw I4.
IU had an awful lot of eggs in the Brad basket. Then Scott Drew. Now getting a.little nervous.
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IU had an awful lot of eggs in the Brad basket. Then Scott Drew. Now getting a.little nervous.
The farther Scott Drew goes in the tournament, the less likely I think he leaves Baylor.
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I don't think he leaves Baylor regardless. He's been there nearly 20 years. I don't believe he grew up an IU fan. I just don't see why he would make that move unless he is just ready for a new challenge.
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Some people here might remember some of the kids Moser and Majerus recruited to SLU, because several were from Chicago, Milwaukee, Twin Cities, KC, etc...
They were all very good basketball players, that often had team success as well. Mike McCall Jr. was 2nd Team All State, helped lead Foreman to their first Public League Title. Dwayne Evans was 3rd Team All State at Nequa Valley. Both played on highly ranked, good, teams all year. Jordair Jett was also all State in Minnesota out of St. Paul, helping lead his team to their first state title game appearance, before helping Notre Dame Prep to the 4 seed in the Prep Tourney. Kwamain Mitchell played at Whitefish Bay Dominican in Milwaukee and had some success there. Willie Reed (KC) played with Femi John (before his career ending injuries) and knew their family. Will John, Femi's cousin, was a star soccer player at SLU.
When Moser was there he would often go out and recruit some of these players. When he liked a player, he'd later bring Majerus. Many were overlooked because they were either overshadowed by someone else, or they didn't have the height, were a tweener, or this or that or didn't run with the popular AAU team. Various things. In many cases more Power 5 schools would come in later or late that weren't there earlier, and/or the ones that did weren't a fit.
SLU went 14, 19, 35 KenPom with that group of.recruits. Recruiting dropped off a lot after Moser left.
This is an article example of Majerus and his recruitment of Brian Conklin. (After this article they finished 14 KenPom that year and lost to 1 seed, and 3 KenPom Michigan St. by 4 points in NCAA Rd 32) Conklin was a two time first team all state and won a state title in Oregon.
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/2012/03/canzano_rick_majeras_saw_somet.html
That's how they did it at SLU.
The expectation is recruiting elevates as conference and resources elevate.
The expectation is that one puts a staff together that can recruit good enough players to win at high levels etc...If you are looking for someone that has already lit up the recruiting services rankings, you'd have to look elsewhere.
Thanks for your analysis of Moser's recruiting skills. This seems to be two major objections against Moser- that he failed in past years (I guess learning from your mistakes does not count for anything) and his perceived/expected inability to recruit at a high level. One of the announcers mentioned during the Syracuse/WVU game that Boeheim once said that he recruited players who fit into his system and then "coached them up" to play the offense he wanted. With Moser's "defense first" approach he probably follows Boeheim's strategy. There are a number of successful coaches that recruit for their systems, whatever they may be, rather than blindly going after the highest rated recruits a la systemless Wojo. I think the recruiting concerns are overblown. If he's our next coach, he almost certainly will carefully hire assistants who with major recruiting experience to help him out.
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Everyone of you guys out there is looking at Porter Moser through Blue and Gold glasses. I appreciate the enthusiasm but lets try looking at this situation from Moser’s current situation.
1) Moser already has accomplished more than any Marquette coach since Tom Crean and could do it again this year. He’s in a conference where he has proven he both can recruit to win and to be a regular winner in the NCAA.
2) As a Loyola MBA, I’m sorry to say this, but Porter Moser will NOT win the NCAA Championship at Loyola. Not this year. Not ever. At some point, talent takes over and the Final Four usually is that point.
3) The only reason Porter Moser leaves is if he has a platform that would enable him to up his game with better recruits, better resources, and a capability to be National Champions. That’s why he did not go to St. John’s a few years ago and why DePaul won’t win his services. I could see Indiana, maybe Minnesota as options if that’s what he wanted.
Given Items 2 and 3, from his perspective, I question whether Marquette, right now, is enough of a step-up to put him in a position to recruit the talent necessary to be national champions. The core talent here now and signed for next year may be better than anything he’s coached in awhile but it’s probably not good enough without a lot of work for Marquette under Moser to contend for a national title.
For this reason, I don’t think Moser is coming to Marquette. That and he’s a die0hard Chicago guy.
Congratulations on being able to read Porter Moser's mind.
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I don't think he leaves Baylor regardless. He's been there nearly 20 years. I don't believe he grew up an IU fan. I just don't see why he would make that move unless he is just ready for a new challenge.
I think this is a change in the last 20 years of college basketball. Before, you’d be crazy to pass up Indiana to stay at Baylor. However, now, you can win at Baylor and win big. You don’t have to be at a blue blood to have a ton of success.
I know we get frustrated that we have to hire a mid-major head coach and not someone more proven, but if you are doing well at a high major school and have enough resources, there’s not as much reason to leave.
One reason I wonder if Moser leaves Loyola. He doesn’t need to be at MU for tourney success as he’s shown. Although, I would think with MU’s resources it would be easier.
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Because winning in the tournament is a terrible measure for projecting successful high major coaches.
I don't think you mean this as it is written. You never would have hired Nate Oats? I think a measure of a mid-major coach needs to be if they can get their teams to consistently compete and occasionally beat high major teams, whether in the tournament or not.
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One reason I wonder if Moser leaves Loyola. He doesn’t need to be at MU for tourney success as he’s shown. Although, I would think with MU’s resources it would be easier.
There's something to be said for getting a huge raise. Admittedly, he likely will have multiple suitors offering that.
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Congratulations on being able to read Porter Moser's mind.
Ring Out Ahoya, Man. It's a skill taught in Phil 50 back in the day!
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I posted a Chicago Tribune article about Moser last week (I think) and there are a number of similar articles available. The gist of the articles is that Moser marches to the beat of a different drummer. I suggest a little more reading about Moser the man rather than focusing solely on Moser the coach to get a better picture of our chances of landing him.
He does not seem to be motivated solely by money. I will quickly add that I am not saying it has no importance to him, but I believe that it is a mistake assuming he will simply go to the highest bidder. My guess is, if he finally says goodbye to Loyola, he goes to either DePaul or Marquette. Milwaukee may be close enough to his beloved Chicago for him. I hope so.
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I posted a Chicago Tribune article about Moser last week (I think) and there are a number of similar articles available. The gist of the articles is that Moser marches to the beat of a different drummer. I suggest a little more reading about Moser the man rather than focusing solely on Moser the coach to get a better picture of our chances of landing him.
He does not seem to be motivated solely by money. I will quickly add that I am not saying it has no importance to him, but I believe that it is a mistake assuming he will simply go to the highest bidder. My guess is, if he finally says goodbye to Loyola, he goes to either DePaul or Marquette. Milwaukee may be close enough to his beloved Chicago for him. I hope so.
Somebody suggested he be pitched on "look just get a condo in Milwaukee for the late nights but other days you can easily commute back to the north suburbs without uprooting your family."
I'd say that pitch is our best bet. Then you take the life change element away and focus on upgrading talent, budget, salary, competition, etc.
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Somebody suggested he be pitched on "look just get a condo in Milwaukee for the late nights but other days you can easily commute back to the north suburbs without uprooting your family."
I'd say that pitch is our best bet. Then you take the life change element away and focus on upgrading talent, budget, salary, competition, etc.
Truth. His wife can stay at their house in Wilmette, and he gets a condo downtown. A student manager can drive him to-from whenever necessary.
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I posted a Chicago Tribune article about Moser last week (I think) and there are a number of similar articles available. The gist of the articles is that Moser marches to the beat of a different drummer. I suggest a little more reading about Moser the man rather than focusing solely on Moser the coach to get a better picture of our chances of landing him.
He does not seem to be motivated solely by money. I will quickly add that I am not saying it has no importance to him, but I believe that it is a mistake assuming he will simply go to the highest bidder. My guess is, if he finally says goodbye to Loyola, he goes to either DePaul or Marquette. Milwaukee may be close enough to his beloved Chicago for him. I hope so.
This jives with the stuff I've heard from a friend and former tOSU manager that he's kind of his own thing. He put it more that "he's kinda weird" but beat of a different drummer works too.
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Several ex players have voiced their support for Moser, as have some of his fellow coaches at coaching stops. Here is ESPN's National Recruiting Director, that worked with Moser under Majerus:
https://twitter.com/PaulBiancardi/status/1373970766308507648?s=19
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Waiting another week+ for Moser is a dagger. Obviously its what you do if he's your guy, but I fear that waiting 10+ days is going to result in major roster fallout. Hopefully, if that is what they decide to do, they know he actually wants to job.
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Waiting another week+ for Moser is a dagger. Obviously its what you do if he's your guy, but I fear that waiting 10+ days is going to result in major roster fallout. Hopefully, if that is what they decide to do, they know he actually wants to job.
Yeah honestly I'm shocked that the players are silent thus far. If I recall correctly the Buzz commits and players pretty much all said they were out when he left and Wojo had to rerecruit them to the program.
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I posted a Chicago Tribune article about Moser last week (I think) and there are a number of similar articles available. The gist of the articles is that Moser marches to the beat of a different drummer. I suggest a little more reading about Moser the man rather than focusing solely on Moser the coach to get a better picture of our chances of landing him.
He does not seem to be motivated solely by money. I will quickly add that I am not saying it has no importance to him, but I believe that it is a mistake assuming he will simply go to the highest bidder. My guess is, if he finally says goodbye to Loyola, he goes to either DePaul or Marquette. Milwaukee may be close enough to his beloved Chicago for him. I hope so.
Some people simply are content where they are -- being at a place where they are happy and where the main pressure is the pressure they put on themselves.
I have no idea if Moser is that, and if he'll be content to challenge himself to keep winning at Loyola rather than go up a level, but it's hardly unprecedented.
Few is the best example, obviously. There's no way he'd leave Gonzaga now, but when suitors were calling after his 3rd, 4th and 5th seasons, he had to be at least a little tempted. But he was content building something at Gonzaga, he was comfortable there, he had plenty of money to be financially free in a relatively low-cost area he liked, etc. Bob McKillop is another; had chances to move up when he was younger but loves Davidson. And there have been a few others.
They are the rarities, yes, but maybe Moser is, too.
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Yeah honestly I'm shocked that the players are silent thus far. If I recall correctly the Buzz commits and players pretty much all said they were out when he left and Wojo had to rerecruit them to the program.
I don't really follow the current players and recruits on social media. Has anyone made any comments on the coaching change?
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Waiting another week+ for Moser is a dagger. Obviously its what you do if he's your guy, but I fear that waiting 10+ days is going to result in major roster fallout. Hopefully, if that is what they decide to do, they know he actually wants to job.
Once Marquette fired Wojo, the horse was out of the barn in terms of the current roster. I'm not gonna wait on pins and needles wondering if any of the current players will stay or the recruits will remain true to their commitments. If anybody stays, cool, that'll help for next season. If they leave, we'll all have totally forgotten about them by year 2. Are you sad Ahmed Hill didn't end up coming to Marquette?
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I don't really follow the current players and recruits on social media. Has anyone made any comments on the coaching change?
No idea. I'm not on social media anymore. I checked Lewis Garcia and Carton a few days ago on Twitter and there wasn't a mention.
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Once Marquette fired Wojo, the horse was out of the barn in terms of the current roster. I'm not gonna wait on pins and needles wondering if any of the current players will stay or the recruits will remain true to their commitments. If anybody stays, cool, that'll help for next season. If they leave, we'll all have totally forgotten about them by year 2. Are you sad Ahmed Hill didn't end up coming to Marquette?
I’m just glad Scholl had the foresight to fire Wojo before the Masters. We had no chance at Hill due to all the private planes in Augusta.
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Once Marquette fired Wojo, the horse was out of the barn in terms of the current roster. I'm not gonna wait on pins and needles wondering if any of the current players will stay or the recruits will remain true to their commitments. If anybody stays, cool, that'll help for next season. If they leave, we'll all have totally forgotten about them by year 2. Are you sad Ahmed Hill didn't end up coming to Marquette?
This. Once you determine the coach has to go, he has to go ... and let the chips fall where they may.
I am assuming all 5 (DJ, DG, JL and the top 2 recruits) will go elsewhere, that's simply what happens most of the time. I will be pleasantly surprised if any of them stay, and thrilled to death if most do.
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I am confident that Marquette’s athletic department is communicating closely with the players. Thus, their collective silence could be viewed as a good thing. It could be viewed as them being willing to at least wait to see who the next head coach will be, which is a positive. It could even be speculated that they have an idea as to the next head coach might be and are willing to talk.
Either way, the fact that we haven’t seen a mass exodus yet, I think is a good sign and something that the Athletic Department should be given credit for.
How’s that for a lot of speculative word salad?
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This jives with the stuff I've heard from a friend and former tOSU manager that he's kind of his own thing. He put it more that "he's kinda weird" but beat of a different drummer works too.
Music to my ears! Want him even more now.
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Once Marquette fired Wojo, the horse was out of the barn in terms of the current roster. I'm not gonna wait on pins and needles wondering if any of the current players will stay or the recruits will remain true to their commitments. If anybody stays, cool, that'll help for next season. If they leave, we'll all have totally forgotten about them by year 2. Are you sad Ahmed Hill didn't end up coming to Marquette?
I mean, Hill certainly would have been nice to have around. I certainly though about it when he was VT's best player for a few years.
I don't really care too much about the incoming recruits outside of Aidoo, but if we can keep Lewis/Garcia/Carton/Greg intact, we have the start of a team that could be good. If we're starting completely over, we're looking at a multi-year full rebuild, and likely at least 1 year of BAD basketball. So yeah, I care - and getting the coaching situation resolved sooner rather than later likely helps keep those guys.
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I am confident that Marquette’s athletic department is communicating closely with the players. Thus, their collective silence could be viewed as a good thing. It could be viewed as them being willing to at least wait to see who the next head coach will be, which is a positive. It could even be speculated that they have an idea as to the next head coach might be and are willing to talk.
Either way, the fact that we haven’t seen a mass exodus yet, I think is a good sign and something that the Athletic Department should be given credit for.
How’s that for a lot of speculative word salad?
Actually wondered if they had a meeting with "just bear with us and see how this plays out" as the message. Could be interesting given how quiet it has been.
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I am confident that Marquette’s athletic department is communicating closely with the players. Thus, their collective silence could be viewed as a good thing. It could be viewed as them being willing to at least wait to see who the next head coach will be, which is a positive.
That's how I'm choosing to look at it.
I'd also add that I doubt many of them were too heartbroken. A good number were probably more sad to see DK go.
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That's how I'm choosing to look at it.
I'd also add that I doubt many of them were too heartbroken. A good number were probably more sad to see DK go.
What makes you say that? Truthfully, it seems like Wojo had a pretty good relationship with his players.
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That's how I'm choosing to look at it.
I'd also add that I doubt many of them were too heartbroken. A good number were probably more sad to see DK go.
Their silence on Wojo is....interesting to say the least
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Actually wondered if they had a meeting with "just bear with us and see how this plays out" as the message. Could be interesting given how quiet it has been.
I’m sure every program that fires a coach has that meeting. Even so, I’d be surprised if everyone didn’t at least put their name in the portal to see what opportunities might be out there for them. They’d be crazy not to. Hopefully the new coach can convince some of them to stick around.
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I mean, Hill certainly would have been nice to have around. I certainly though about it when he was VT's best player for a few years.
I don't really care too much about the incoming recruits outside of Aidoo, but if we can keep Lewis/Garcia/Carton/Greg intact, we have the start of a team that could be good. If we're starting completely over, we're looking at a multi-year full rebuild, and likely at least 1 year of BAD basketball. So yeah, I care - and getting the coaching situation resolved sooner rather than later likely helps keep those guys.
That's certainly fair.
We need to hire the best coach we can get, that's first and foremost. But I also hope we're moving with some urgency. Not desperation, not speed at the expense of getting it right, but some urgency.
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Because winning in the tournament is a terrible measure for projecting successful high major coaches.
Because when he was in the Dakotas he didn't just recruit the Dakotas. He recruited Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Illinois heavily. And at Utah he hasn't just recruited Utah, he's actually become an expert in international recruiting, pulling kids from Russia, Australia, and Canada. Also because in his three years at Utah St, he's recruited 5 out of the 10 highest rated recruits in school history per 247.
The above statement in bold isn't a fact, right? But just your opinion?
It sounds like you're asserting that this is a fact.
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Some people simply are content where they are -- being at a place where they are happy and where the main pressure is the pressure they put on themselves.
I have no idea if Moser is that, and if he'll be content to challenge himself to keep winning at Loyola rather than go up a level, but it's hardly unprecedented.
Few is the best example, obviously. There's no way he'd leave Gonzaga now, but when suitors were calling after his 3rd, 4th and 5th seasons, he had to be at least a little tempted. But he was content building something at Gonzaga, he was comfortable there, he had plenty of money to be financially free in a relatively low-cost area he liked, etc. Bob McKillop is another; had chances to move up when he was younger but loves Davidson. And there have been a few others.
They are the rarities, yes, but maybe Moser is, too.
The Few analogy is close, but IMHO there is still room to sway Moser even if money isn't his biggest motivator.
From what I can tell, Few makes ~2M and lives in Spokane. That basically gives him more money then he'll ever need for a very comfortable life in the place he calls home.
According to the article below, Moser makes ~1.1M and lives in the Chicago area. That allows him to live very comfortably in a great neighborhood...but doesn't necessarily give him lifelong security in that neighborhood. Doubling it to ~2M or more would make a huge difference. Not necessarily to make him the richest guy on the block (it probably wouldn't), but to give him the security to know he can stay there if he wants.
http://loyolaphoenix.com/2020/11/mens-basketball-coach-moser-highest-paid-at-loyola-president-rooney-comes-in-second/
I have no idea where this goes, but it still seems like there is financial wiggle room, even if Moser doesn't need to be 'rich.'
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Music to my ears! Want him even more now.
Yea Moser is a strange dude.
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The above statement in bold isn't a fact, right? But just your opinion?
It sounds like you're asserting that this is a fact.
No it's pretty accurate for mid major coaches. I think the best example is John Groce at Ohio. A better example is year in and year out sustained success. Hell I'd take a coach that has a ton of mid major regular season titles over a mid major coach that won the conference tournament and then made the sweet 16.
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Yeah honestly I'm shocked that the players are silent thus far. If I recall correctly the Buzz commits and players pretty much all said they were out when he left and Wojo had to rerecruit them to the program.
Different time when Buzz left. MU was a mess then. No AD, brand new Pres. Scholl knows the players well and no doubt has communicated with all of them.
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Yea Moser is a strange dude.
Great! Bland cookie cutter = no bueno. MU has the untucked tradition, I vastly prefer an odd bird. We need to stand out, not blend in.
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What is Moser's source of wealth? I keep hearing that he's financially independent.
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That's certainly fair.
We need to hire the best coach we can get, that's first and foremost. But I also hope we're moving with some urgency. Not desperation, not speed at the expense of getting it right, but some urgency.
Yep. Agreed. IF Moser is the guy, you definitely wait. But hopefully Moser's agent is at least willing to discuss it and make sure there is actually a fit before we waste 10 days waiting.
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What is Moser's source of wealth? I keep hearing that he's financially independent.
I saw that on the Minnesota board when looking at their coaching search.
A quick Google search says his dad was a developer and philanthropist in Naperville. This article makes it seem like the family is pretty well known in the area.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.cbslocal.com/2018/03/27/moser-family-naperville-loyola-ramblers/amp/
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What is Moser's source of wealth? I keep hearing that he's financially independent.
His family owns half of Naperville. Presumably the good half. I've heard him described as a Trust Fund Kid...who just happens to be really successful in a completely unrelated field.
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His family owns half of Naperville. Presumably the good half. I've heard him described as a Trust Fund Kid...who just happens to be really successful in a completely unrelated field.
As opposed to the great half?
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As opposed to the great half?
Which half is the one that claims it is Chicago (see, the "Hilton of Naperville-Chicago")
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The above statement in bold isn't a fact, right? But just your opinion?
It sounds like you're asserting that this is a fact.
Its an opinion supported by facts.
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The Few analogy is close, but IMHO there is still room to sway Moser even if money isn't his biggest motivator.
From what I can tell, Few makes ~2M and lives in Spokane. That basically gives him more money then he'll ever need for a very comfortable life in the place he calls home.
According to the article below, Moser makes ~1.1M and lives in the Chicago area. That allows him to live very comfortably in a great neighborhood...but doesn't necessarily give him lifelong security in that neighborhood. Doubling it to ~2M or more would make a huge difference. Not necessarily to make him the richest guy on the block (it probably wouldn't), but to give him the security to know he can stay there if he wants.
http://loyolaphoenix.com/2020/11/mens-basketball-coach-moser-highest-paid-at-loyola-president-rooney-comes-in-second/
I have no idea where this goes, but it still seems like there is financial wiggle room, even if Moser doesn't need to be 'rich.'
Good stuff, Gooooooooooo.
Obviously, we don't know what's going on in Moser's head - or in his bank account (or brokerage account). So we'll get to see because we aren't the only that's gonna be offering.
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Thanks for the info, too lazy to use the Google machine this morning.
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What is Moser's source of wealth? I keep hearing that he's financially independent.
Father owned a lumber company and was a real estate developer in the Naperville area.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-09-02-9809020099-story.html
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Great! Bland cookie cutter = no bueno. MU has the untucked tradition, I vastly prefer an odd bird. We need to stand out, not blend in.
You got that right, Marquette has a problem with normal.
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Perfect - moser already meets Scoops number one criteria for a coach. They must have the ability to adopt and fund the education of a student athlete when faced with lack of scholarships.
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Perfect - moser already meets Scoops number one criteria for a coach. They must have the ability to adopt and fund the education of a student athlete when faced with lack of scholarships.
This will be perfect bc we’ve also assumed his family will stay behind in Chicago and he’ll be in a downtown condo. His new son / player will be able to keep him company.
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Music to my ears! Want him even more now.
It's been more than 4 hours, you should probably seek medical attention
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This will be perfect bc we’ve also assumed his family will stay behind in Chicago and he’ll be in a downtown condo. His new son / player will be able to keep him company.
We can't let this opportunity slip by us. Come-on Scoop, grab your pens, its time.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/5WfZryY1nASj3HTA5g/giphy.gif)
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Perfect - moser already meets Scoops number one criteria for a coach. They must have the ability to adopt and fund the education of a student athlete when faced with lack of scholarships.
I’ll just be happy if the next coach actually uses the 13 scholarships allotted to them!! Wojo certainly didn’t think it was necessary, yet we had depth issues every year!!
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Based on all I’ve seen and heard about Moser, he’s my number one choice. Even seems like a guy that could decide that MU is a final stopping place which we’ve had a hard time with here and have always wanted. We have to be a destination to desire for someone to stay at for the long haul. The resources are fantastic and the proximity to Chicago with a big time conference...how and who can we get to build this program for more than a few years without worrying about departure? Moser seems like he could be the best fit to being that guy.
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I’ll just be happy if the next coach actually uses the 13 scholarships allotted to them!! Wojo certainly didn’t think it was necessary, yet we had depth issues every year!!
Bingo!
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I’ll just be happy if the next coach actually uses the 13 scholarships allotted to them!! Wojo certainly didn’t think it was necessary, yet we had depth issues every year!!
That always frustrated me. Maybe it’s my memory being cloudy, but we seemed to have a lot of 10-11 player rosters. It helps with a midseason transfer, but always seemed like we weren’t playing with a full deck.
That and rarely filling our schedule.
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I’ll just be happy if the next coach actually uses the 13 scholarships allotted to them!! Wojo certainly didn’t think it was necessary, yet we had depth issues every year!!
Yes, absolutely!
I know some say Wojo was a good recruiter, but part being a good recruiter is filling your roster with adequate depth and developmental guys. Wojo definitely failed in that regard.
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I think any man likes to accumulate as much wealth as they can on their own. Sense of pride besides daddy’s money.
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Could be wrong though. I’ve never inherited millions.
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I’ve never inherited millions.
Big mistake on your part.
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Could be wrong though. I’ve never inherited millions.
Billions?
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If he is trust fund child.....He sure does not show it......
He lives in Wilmette in a new house he bought a few years back after he got his raise at Loyola.....The old house sold for mid 1's....for Wilmette that is small....The new house seems to be much nicer.....His family looks to range from a teenage daughter to sons in the 7 to 12ish area....
Living on the North Shore....and family are major concerns we need to overcome.....Should not be a problem if this is a "coveted" opportunity knowing what the final destination would be....
We shall see.....Have my brother-in-law....the priest....put in a Good word with the big guy.....and see what happens.....
If it is the right fit......It will happen.....
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He lives in Wilmette in a new house he bought a few years back after he got his raise at Loyola.....The old house sold for mid 1's....for Wilmette that is small....The new house seems to be much nicer.....His family looks to range from a teenage daughter to sons in the 7 to 12ish area....
FWIW, kinda creepy. hah
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If he is trust fund child.....He sure does not show it......
He lives in Wilmette in a new house he bought a few years back after he got his raise at Loyola.....The old house sold for mid 1's....for Wilmette that is small....The new house seems to be much nicer.....His family looks to range from a teenage daughter to sons in the 7 to 12ish area....
Living on the North Shore....and family are major concerns we need to overcome.....Should not be a problem if this is a "coveted" opportunity knowing what the final destination would be....
We shall see.....Have my brother-in-law....the priest....put in a Good word with the big guy.....and see what happens.....
If it is the right fit......It will happen.....
Again these are not tough issues to overcome. He gets a condo in MKE for late nights and commutes the rest of the time. It'd be different if he lived in city itself, or the west, or southwest suburbs because then you're pitching him uprooting his family but in the North shore he's not far away from MKE
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Again these are not tough issues to overcome. He gets a condo in MKE for late nights and commutes the rest of the time. It'd be different if he lived in city itself, or the west, or southwest suburbs because then you're pitching him uprooting his family but in the North shore he's not far away from MKE
People honestly think he's gonna be commuting an hour both ways (presuming no traffic issues) after working a 10-12 hour days most of the time? Making the condo seem like a once a week sort of thing when he has a late night (sorry honey, wont be home for dinner). I just dont think thats very feasible. He may go home on the weekends, sure, but if his family is staying in Wilmette, I think its far more likely he spends 60-70% of his nights in MKE, maybe more.
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Again these are not tough issues to overcome. He gets a condo in MKE for late nights and commutes the rest of the time. It'd be different if he lived in city itself, or the west, or southwest suburbs because then you're pitching him uprooting his family but in the North shore he's not far away from MKE
Maybe I just hate commuting more than the average person, but I find it amusing that so many people seem convinced that commuting from Wilmette to Marquette wouldn’t be a big deal for Moser. Respectfully, how could you possibly know that. It would be a huge deal for me. Maybe he doesn’t want to spend 2-4 hours driving each day. Maybe he wants to be able to cut out of work for 90 minutes (as opposed to 3-4 hours) to attend something a his kid’s school. Maybe he doesn’t feel he can effectively do his job living an hour away. While I admit that for some people that commute wouldn’t be a big deal, none of has any idea whether it would be a big deal for Moser.
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Maybe I just hate commuting more than the average person, but I find it amusing that so many people seem convinced that commuting from Wilmette to Marquette wouldn’t be a big deal for Moser. Respectfully, how could you possibly know that. It would be a huge deal for me. Maybe he doesn’t want to spend 2-4 hours driving each day. Maybe he wants to be able to cut out of work for 90 minutes (as opposed to 3-4 hours) to attend something a his kid’s school. Maybe he doesn’t feel he can effectively do his job living an hour away. While I admit that for some people that commute wouldn’t be a big deal, none of has any idea whether it would be a big deal for Moser.
Idk maybe I'm wired different but I drove from oak Park to work in Lincolnshire for a year and that commute was about the same time as it was driving to work from my fiancé's old apartment in Bayview in Milwaukee Is it an exact comparison? Nope but I think it's not as big of a deal as some are making it out to be. Especially for a huge salary increase. You spend 6 months in Milwaukee about 70% of the time, rough, but you then spend the other 6 months at home or on the road for recruiting anyways 70% of the time.
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Maybe I just hate commuting more than the average person, but I find it amusing that so many people seem convinced that commuting from Wilmette to Marquette wouldn’t be a big deal for Moser. Respectfully, how could you possibly know that. It would be a huge deal for me. Maybe he doesn’t want to spend 2-4 hours driving each day. Maybe he wants to be able to cut out of work for 90 minutes (as opposed to 3-4 hours) to attend something a his kid’s school. Maybe he doesn’t feel he can effectively do his job living an hour away. While I admit that for some people that commute wouldn’t be a big deal, none of has any idea whether it would be a big deal for Moser.
We can fix this in 4 easy steps:
1) Divorce family & give wife custody
2) Adopt recruits pay their own way and enjoy the spoils of missing the diaper years
3) Reach out to Gail Pudvan on facebook and start dating
4) Live happily ever after
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Maybe I just hate commuting more than the average person, but I find it amusing that so many people seem convinced that commuting from Wilmette to Marquette wouldn’t be a big deal for Moser. Respectfully, how could you possibly know that. It would be a huge deal for me. Maybe he doesn’t want to spend 2-4 hours driving each day. Maybe he wants to be able to cut out of work for 90 minutes (as opposed to 3-4 hours) to attend something a his kid’s school. Maybe he doesn’t feel he can effectively do his job living an hour away. While I admit that for some people that commute wouldn’t be a big deal, none of has any idea whether it would be a big deal for Moser.
Marquette could build a helipad on top of the AL and lease a helicopter as part of the package if he did not want to move.
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Maybe I just hate commuting more than the average person, but I find it amusing that so many people seem convinced that commuting from Wilmette to Marquette wouldn’t be a big deal for Moser. Respectfully, how could you possibly know that. It would be a huge deal for me. Maybe he doesn’t want to spend 2-4 hours driving each day. Maybe he wants to be able to cut out of work for 90 minutes (as opposed to 3-4 hours) to attend something a his kid’s school. Maybe he doesn’t feel he can effectively do his job living an hour away. While I admit that for some people that commute wouldn’t be a big deal, none of has any idea whether it would be a big deal for Moser.
Yeah that commute would suck ass. Enough of this condo talk, the simplest solution would be to buy him the Pabst mansion as part of his contract and he could walk to the Al every day and the whole family could move in.
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Maybe I just hate commuting more than the average person, but I find it amusing that so many people seem convinced that commuting from Wilmette to Marquette wouldn’t be a big deal for Moser. Respectfully, how could you possibly know that. It would be a huge deal for me. Maybe he doesn’t want to spend 2-4 hours driving each day. Maybe he wants to be able to cut out of work for 90 minutes (as opposed to 3-4 hours) to attend something a his kid’s school. Maybe he doesn’t feel he can effectively do his job living an hour away. While I admit that for some people that commute wouldn’t be a big deal, none of has any idea whether it would be a big deal for Moser.
I do a pretty similar commute, same general middle age-ness, same general kids ages. I would not recommend. Not sure how he is wired, but not ideal if you can control. That's 2.5 - 3hrs in the car everyday. I-94 is easy, but you can only multi-task so much. I have basically unlimited flexibility, but there's only so much you can do when you are that far apart. One of the two entities is getting the short-end, as well as you the person. I've actually had the condo discussion as well, but it's just not something I would do. Some people travel and are away from their families 4+ days a week, but most people I know burn out of that lifestyle when kids are involved. Again, no idea how he is wired or his family, but I agree with the post above. I wouldn't take another job that far away without bringing my family with me.
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If he is trust fund child.....He sure does not show it......
He lives in Wilmette in a new house he bought a few years back after he got his raise at Loyola.....The old house sold for mid 1's....for Wilmette that is small....The new house seems to be much nicer.....His family looks to range from a teenage daughter to sons in the 7 to 12ish area....
Living on the North Shore....and family are major concerns we need to overcome.....Should not be a problem if this is a "coveted" opportunity knowing what the final destination would be....
We shall see.....Have my brother-in-law....the priest....put in a Good word with the big guy.....and see what happens.....
If it is the right fit......It will happen.....
.....yikes....
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Moser has lived in suburban Chicago since 2011. Before that, he live elsewhere for over 20 years.
If he is the coach, I would think he will get a house in Milwaukee and his family would move here. I think its an expectation to become a member of the community and represent the University in ways other than on the basketball court.
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.....yikes....
Those are the issues.....
I am sure administration has done their homework already and prepare to meet every possible objection....
The question is comfort and fit at this point.....
We shall see.....
I am sure some board of trustees.....Doc.....have already pointed in this direction....
People that actually know "coaching acumen"......Why do you think Wojo is not here any more in my opinion.....
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Big mistake on your part.
Yeah. I fooked that one up too.
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If he is the coach, I would think he will get a house in Milwaukee and his family would move here. I think its an expectation to become a member of the community and represent the University in ways other than on the basketball court.
I agree 100%.
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If he is the coach, I would think he will get a house in Milwaukee and his family would move here. I think its an expectation to become a member of the community and represent the University in ways other than on the basketball court.
Agreed. If he wants to remain in the Chicago area, he's either staying at Loyola or heading to DePaul. If MU hires him, he's moving to Mequon or Whitefish Bay.
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Agreed. If he wants to remain in the Chicago area, he's either staying at Loyola or heading to DePaul. If MU hires him, he's moving to Mequon or Whitefish Bay.
Apparently his daughter is a walk-on with the Loyola women's team. Could Coach Duffy be convinced to offer a scholie?
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Apparently his daughter is a walk-on with the Loyola women's team. Could Coach Duffy be convinced to offer a scholie?
As head coach, wouldn't his daughter get a free ride, making a schollie unnecessary?
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As head coach, wouldn't his daughter get a free ride, making a schollie unnecessary?
He wouldn’t even have to adopt her!
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Moser doesn’t want the job #deadend
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Apparently his daughter is a walk-on with the Loyola women's team. Could Coach Duffy be convinced to offer a scholie?
I did not know that. Kinda surprising considering his daughter didn't play at all in high school. Pretty much a bench warmer during her varsity career.
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I did not know that. Kinda surprising considering his daughter didn't play at all in high school. Pretty much a bench warmer during her varsity career.
Doors open when your dad is the school's highest profile and highest paid employee.
Anyhow, all the better if she doesn't need a scholie. But Duff would have to make a roster spot available.
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Moser doesn’t want the job #deadend
I could believe this.
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Moser doesn’t want the job #deadend
Is this being posted as an opinion? A rumor? A fact?
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Moser doesn’t want the job #deadend
Back to pitino?
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I could believe this.
Yep, Sometimes folks are just happy where they are.
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Not sure if it has been mentioned but Moser turned down 2 Million a year at Saint John’s before Saint John’s hired Anderson.
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Not sure if it has been mentioned but Moser turned down 2 Million a year at Saint John%u2019s before Saint John%u2019s hired Anderson.
I told you guys it would take Wojo salary......
Also.....you believe a guy with 6 posts.....
Check the IP......Best it is North Shore Chicago with a close to Loyola zip.....
All I will say......Remember when Crean left for IU......
There are no absolutes either way.....Let's see how it plays out.....
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Also.....you believe a guy with 6 posts.....
Looking at his history. Been around a while, doesn't just throw crap out there. At least as reliable as most people. Maybe it's a guess, but entirely possible.
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I told you guys it would take Wojo salary......
Also.....you believe a guy with 6 posts.....
Check the IP......Best it is North Shore Chicago with a close to Loyola zip.....
All I will say......Remember when Crean left for IU......
There are no absolutes either way.....Let's see how it plays out.....
.....o..........k.....
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Looking at his history. Been around a while, doesn't just throw crap out there. At least as reliable as most people. Maybe it's a guess, but entirely possible.
So Goodman is full of hot air when he says MU is Moser's dream job.
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So Goodman is full of hot air when he says MU is Moser's dream job.
I wouldn’t put it past Goodman or Moser’s agent.
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So Goodman is full of hot air when he says MU is Moser's dream job.
I believe the words were "covets the job". Goodman just reports what he hears.
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Looking at his history. Been around a while, doesn't just throw crap out there. At least as reliable as most people. Maybe it's a guess, but entirely possible.
Low bar? Lmao
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Low bar? Lmao
Oh for sure! Though many of our best scoops have come from low volume/little known/new posters.
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Yeah it almost seems like less posts = higher credibility.
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I believe the words were "covets the job". Goodman just reports what he hears.
Correct on both accounts.
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Looking at his history. Been around a while, doesn't just throw crap out there. At least as reliable as most people. Maybe it's a guess, but entirely possible.
I’m not Pepe Silvia but the move to Marquette would be out of character for Moser. Remember, he was taught by Rick Majerus.
As for lack of posting, I forget about muscoops, come back, feel bad for the horse the forum has beat to death, and go away (or lurk).
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Doors open when your dad is the school's highest profile and highest paid employee.
Anyhow, all the better if she doesn't need a scholie. But Duff would have to make a roster spot available.
She doesn't need a schollie. Her dad has a seven-figure salary. It would likely affect his overall comp less than 2 percent.
And I would be surprised if her dad made that part of the deal. For the sake of the women's team's success, I would hope he would not want his daughter taking it instead of a more qualified player.
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She doesn't need a schollie. Her dad has a seven-figure salary. It would likely affect his overall comp less than 2 percent.
And I would be surprised if her dad made that part of the deal. For the sake of the women's team's success, I would hope he would not want his daughter taking it instead of a more qualified player.
Also don't children of MU employees attend for free?
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Also don't children of MU employees attend for free?
Yes. Great point.
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4ever will have to move back downtown.
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Its an opinion supported by facts.
Thank you for your perspective.
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Thank you for your perspective.
Not sure if it's been said in here, but one quote I saw this week that I really liked was to the effect of "if a coach wouldn't on your list on March 1, they shouldn't be on your list on April 1." I think that's a good general rule to live by.
A lot of careers have been made by winning a mediocre conference tournament & a game or two after that. Probably safer to look at what coaches do from November to February to put themselves into position for the lucky bounces of March.
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Not sure if it's been said in here, but one quote I saw this week that I really liked was to the effect of "if a coach wouldn't on your list on March 1, they shouldn't be on your list on April 1." I think that's a good general rule to live by.
A lot of careers have been made by winning a mediocre conference tournament & a game or two after that. Probably safer to look at what coaches do from November to February to put themselves into position for the lucky bounces of March.
It's a fair point, but some pretty successful high-major coaches earned their opportunity at that level thanks mostly to some unexpected tourney success.
Does Brad Underwood land at Illinois, via Okie State, if not for some tourney success at Stephen F. Austin? Does Andy Enfield get the USC gig if not for Dunk City in 2013? Does Nate Oats land at Alabama without Buffalo winning some tournament games? Tournament success played a huge part in all three of these guys getting P6 opportunities.
And yes, it definitely go the other way. John Groce comes to mind.
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Because winning in the tournament is a terrible measure for projecting successful high major coaches.
Because when he was in the Dakotas he didn't just recruit the Dakotas. He recruited Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Illinois heavily. And at Utah he hasn't just recruited Utah, he's actually become an expert in international recruiting, pulling kids from Russia, Australia, and Canada. Also because in his three years at Utah St, he's recruited 5 out of the 10 highest rated recruits in school history per 247.
The above statement in bold isn't a fact, right? But just your opinion?
It sounds like you're asserting that this is a fact.
Its an opinion supported by facts.
Out of curiosity, what facts do you have to support your opinion except for a few anecdotal examples to fit your narrative that, “winning in the tournament is a terrible measure for projecting successful high major coaches?"
I’m not discrediting regular season success, but to say that NCAA tournament success is a terrible measure to judge head coaches seems to be dubious at best.
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It's a fair point, but some pretty successful high-major coaches earned their opportunity at that level thanks mostly to some unexpected tourney success.
Does Brad Underwood land at Illinois, via Okie State, if not for some tourney success at Stephen F. Austin? Does Andy Enfield get the USC gig if not for Dunk City in 2013? Does Nate Oats land at Alabama with Buffalo winning some tournament games?
And yes, it definitely go the other way. John Groce comes to mind.
Brad Underwood was 99-14 (53-1 in conference) at SFA, he didn't need tourney success. Enfield, probably not, though his turnaround in 2 years at FGCU isn't that different from Gates, just with 2 more wins. Oats had Buffalo in the top-15 and notably better every year he was there. He would've got a job with or without wins in the tournament.
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Brad Underwood was 99-14 (53-1 in conference) at SFA, he didn't need tourney success. Enfield, probably not, though his turnaround in 2 years at FGCU isn't that different from Gates, just with 2 more wins. Oats had Buffalo in the top-15 and notably better every year he was there. He would've got a job with or without wins in the tournament.
OK, so which small school coach got a high-major gig based on tournament success while also sucking during the regular season?
None, right? Because those small schools don't get the opportunity for tournament success without first having great records in the regular season. So it's a moot point.
In the meantime, there are and have been plenty of small school coaches who've racked up great regular season records but no postseason success, and thus remain small school coaches. John Becker comes to mind. Dave Richman. Heck, even Tod Kowalczyk.
If you don't believe winning in March opens up opportunities for smaller school coaches, not sure what to tell you.
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OK, so which small school coach got a high-major gig based on tournament success while also sucking during the regular season?
None, right? Because those small schools don't get the opportunity for tournament success without first having great records in the regular season. So it's a moot point.
In the meantime, there are and have been plenty of small school coaches who've racked up great regular season records but no postseason success, and thus remain small school coaches. John Becker comes to mind. Dave Richman. Heck, even Tod Kowalczyk.
If you don't believe winning in March opens up opportunities for smaller school coaches, not sure what to tell you.
I think John Groce is the poster child of this. His time at Ohio wasn’t great outside of a Sweet 16 run. His best conference finish was third in his division.
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I don't know if it has been mentioned but I have read articles where Moser should be the successor to coach K at Duke and touting his hire for DePaul. Seems like many writers are discovering this guy as the one for their program. He seems to be the darling of this tournament
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Brad Underwood was 99-14 (53-1 in conference) at SFA, he didn't need tourney success. Enfield, probably not, though his turnaround in 2 years at FGCU isn't that different from Gates, just with 2 more wins. Oats had Buffalo in the top-15 and notably better every year he was there. He would've got a job with or without wins in the tournament.
Enfield having a good run with SC.
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OK, so which small school coach got a high-major gig based on tournament success while also sucking during the regular season?
None, right? Because those small schools don't get the opportunity for tournament success without first having great records in the regular season. So it's a moot point.
In the meantime, there are and have been plenty of small school coaches who've racked up great regular season records but no postseason success, and thus remain small school coaches. John Becker comes to mind. Dave Richman. Heck, even Tod Kowalczyk.
If you don't believe winning in March opens up opportunities for smaller school coaches, not sure what to tell you.
Andy Enfield was the coach at FGCU for two seasons. The year they made their S16 run, they were the number 2 seed in their own conference tournament and had to win it to qualify. He doesn't get the USC gig without that S16 run. Now that worked out for USC eventually, this year is only his second and third NCAA wins, but it took awhile.
How about Shaka? Do you think he gets the Texas gig without the Final Four run? He had no regular season titles and two NCAA wins at VCU otherwise.
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https://twitter.com/LoweDownStats/status/1374060885908553736 (https://twitter.com/LoweDownStats/status/1374060885908553736)
Interesting read from our blogger side. I think this summarizes some of my concerns somewhat with Moser.
Not a Proser or a Noser (or a Hoser). Just want to see us put a consistently good basketball product on the court. This is why the AD has their job and I have mine, I guess. I just miss relevance of the basketball program.
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Andy Enfield was the coach at FGCU for two seasons. The year they made their S16 run, they were the number 2 seed in their own conference tournament and had to win it to qualify. He doesn't get the USC gig without that S16 run. Now that worked out for USC eventually, this year is only his second and third NCAA wins, but it took awhile.
How about Shaka? Do you think he gets the Texas gig without the Final Four run? He had no regular season titles and two NCAA wins at VCU otherwise.
I think we agree on this. Enfield is one of the guys I mentioned in an earlier post.
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Out of curiosity, what facts do you have to support your opinion except for a few anecdotal examples to fit your narrative that, “winning in the tournament is a terrible measure for projecting successful high major coaches?"
I’m not discrediting regular season success, but to say that NCAA tournament success is a terrible measure to judge head coaches seems to be dubious at best.
Short answer. Why would you look at 2% of the available data and ignore the other 98%?
March success is a data point in a sea of data points. It should be considered but fans have the tendency to only look at March success. Brew's rule is a good one, if they wouldn't be your coach on March 1, they shouldn't be your coach on April 1.
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https://twitter.com/LoweDownStats/status/1374060885908553736 (https://twitter.com/LoweDownStats/status/1374060885908553736)
Interesting read from our blogger side. I think this summarizes some of my concerns somewhat with Moser.
Not a Proser or a Noser (or a Hoser). Just want to see us put a consistently good basketball product on the court. This is why the AD has their job and I have mine, I guess. I just miss relevance of the basketball program.
Good info (thanks too Rob). Honestly, my main concern with Moser is tempo. I don't doubt he can win, and we'd all be happy with that. But his teams generally play at a tempo slower than WI, and on par with VA. I couldn't make fun of how boring those two teams are if we hire Moser. :(
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Short answer. Why would you look at 2% of the available data and ignore the other 98%?
But it's not as if these are the only options.
I'm not suggesting postseason should the only or even primary consideration, but it's important. Especially when you're talking small-school and mid-major coaches, it's a rare opportunity for them to match up with a P6 program after the first week or two of the season, and in a neutral setting. And it displays a coach's ability to prepare his team to play in a tournament setting - all or nothing games, increased pressure, little time to prepare for your next opponent, etc. These are things you can't measure from the regular season schedule, especially in the relative obscurity of a small/mid-major conference.
We agree that it's unwise to put too much stock in the postseason, but it should be a big part of the evaluation.
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Good info (thanks too Rob). Honestly, my main concern with Moser is tempo. I don't doubt he can win, and we'd all be happy with that. But his teams generally play at a tempo slower than WI, and on par with VA. I couldn't make fun of how boring those two teams are if we hire Moser. :(
If you have inferior talent, you slow down the tempo. See Wisconsin and Virginia
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Good info (thanks too Rob). Honestly, my main concern with Moser is tempo. I don't doubt he can win, and we'd all be happy with that. But his teams generally play at a tempo slower than WI, and on par with VA. I couldn't make fun of how boring those two teams are if we hire Moser. :(
This is also my main concern, Rock. Boring basketball is boring.
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If you have inferior talent, you slow down the tempo. See Wisconsin and Virginia
But it's also a coaching style. I can't see Moser changing that, even with better talent. See: Bennett, Ryan, Gard
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But it's also a coaching style. I can't see Moser changing that, even with better talent. See: Bennett, Ryan, Gard
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/48/36/6e4836ce122b44072a8b11a186b07e42.jpg)
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This is also my main concern, Rock. Boring basketball is boring.
You must not have watched any of their games this year. They were way more entertaining to watch possession by possession than anything I've seen during the Wojo era, including the Markus/Rowsey bomb show. The pace may have been "slow" on a KenPom metric basis, but the movement without the ball every possession was constant (unlike 4 guys standing around watching one guy pound the ball and shoot a contested 3 off the dribble with 15 seconds left on the shot clock, which counts as "fast"). Fast breaks were opportunistic off TO's, and were executed with precision that was anything but boring. Not a mid-2000's Bo Ryan type team by any stretch of the imagination.
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Short answer. Why would you look at 2% of the available data and ignore the other 98%?
March success is a data point in a sea of data points. It should be considered but fans have the tendency to only look at March success. Brew's rule is a good one, if they wouldn't be your coach on March 1, they shouldn't be your coach on April 1.
Generally agree, but there is a middle ground between 'he is your guy' and 'he isn't your guy': A coach who is on your short list on March 1 might (reasonably) move up a spot or two in your hierarchy by April 1.
Say he was a very close #3 on March 1, then makes a FF run. I don't think it's unreasonable to take that run into account and move him up to #1 or #2.
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You must not have watched any of their games this year. They were way more entertaining to watch possession by possession than anything I've seen during the Wojo era, including the Markus/Rowsey bomb show. The pace may have been "slow" on a KenPom metric basis, but the movement without the ball every possession was constant (unlike 4 guys standing around watching one guy pound the ball and shoot a contested 3 off the dribble with 15 seconds left on the shot clock, which counts as "fast"). Fast breaks were opportunistic off TO's, and were executed with precision that was anything but boring. Not a mid-2000's Bo Ryan type team by any stretch of the imagination.
Now take your feelings out of your argument.
Adjusted Tempo is 342. Out of 357.
They're slower than Virginia and Wisconsin.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/48/36/6e4836ce122b44072a8b11a186b07e42.jpg)
Indeed. (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/57/9a/66/579a664ba14b73d5db0d8783f69b4239.gif)
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Now take your feelings out of your argument.
Adjusted Tempo is 342. Out of 357.
They're slower than Virginia and Wisconsin.
...and they all are winning programs. Slow fast who cares as long as it results in winning.
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Slow fast who cares as long as it results in winning.
I would happily accept the winning. I'd personally prefer "not slow" for my own personal enjoyment.
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...and they all are winning programs. Slow fast who cares as long as it results in winning.
But you can win without being slow. Which is what I'd prefer to watch.
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I would happily accept the winning. I'd personally prefer "not slow" for my own personal enjoyment.
Al's teams were petty deliberate. In fact his teams were praised in limiting the number of possessions per game. I guess Al's teams would be boring. But then there was no shot clock.
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But it's also a coaching style. I can't see Moser changing that, even with better talent. See: Bennett, Ryan, Gard
Like everyone else, I love the disciplined, team-oriented style I've seen from Loyola on both offense and defense the few times I've seen them the past few years, including the tournament. I don't think it will be as easy to get 4/5 star guys who think they are going to play in the NBA to play that way, though.
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OK, so which small school coach got a high-major gig based on tournament success while also sucking during the regular season?
None, right? Because those small schools don't get the opportunity for tournament success without first having great records in the regular season. So it's a moot point.
In the meantime, there are and have been plenty of small school coaches who've racked up great regular season records but no postseason success, and thus remain small school coaches. John Becker comes to mind. Dave Richman. Heck, even Tod Kowalczyk.
If you don't believe winning in March opens up opportunities for smaller school coaches, not sure what to tell you.
I'm not saying coaches don't get jobs on the basis of NCAA success, I'm saying NCAA success isn't the best barometer to use. It's too volatile to hire someone on the basis of a couple games rather than a career resume. I'd rather look at the balance of a season, or better multiple seasons. That's why I'd like someone like Craig Smith, who has shown the ability to win at multiple places, even if he hasn't won big in March.
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Now take your feelings out of your argument.
Adjusted Tempo is 342. Out of 357.
They're slower than Virginia and Wisconsin.
LOL dude u are miserable
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LOL dude u are miserable
Won't be miserable if the brings an EFG above 50%......
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I would happily accept the winning. I'd personally prefer "not slow" for my own personal enjoyment.
I watched the second Drake game, both of their SIU games late in the season, games they won that were exceptionally ugly. And this is one of his better teams that are clearly better than their conference foes. We’ve seen with Wisconsin and UVA over the years, when it’s not clicking on all cylinders it can be excruciating. Even if they are well coached and disciplined, I personally hate watching teams pass up open looks or driving lanes early in a possession cause that’s not part of the scheme.
LOL dude u are miserable
He may be miserable, yet you’ve spent the last 3-4 days breathlessly anointing Moser is the second coming and fawning over everything about him. You’re far from unbiased and impartial. He’s not wrong in anything he’s pointed out.
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I thought the Loyola/Illinois game was as entertaining as any I’ve seen in the tournament.
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I'm not saying coaches don't get jobs on the basis of NCAA success, I'm saying NCAA success isn't the best barometer to use. It's too volatile to hire someone on the basis of a couple games rather than a career resume. I'd rather look at the balance of a season, or better multiple seasons. That's why I'd like someone like Craig Smith, who has shown the ability to win at multiple places, even if he hasn't won big in March.
I think we agree more than disagree. I just think it's a bit of a false dilemma here. The choice isn't to hire on either tournament OR regular season success. Both need to be considered.
Just as you may not be enthralled with Moser based on his regular season results, I'm not enthralled with Smith because he has yet to win a postseason game six seasons as a D1 coach (not including 2020, for obvious reasons).
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Winning makes games more fun to watch. Wojo had a way more up tempo style of play but that was frustrating to watch a lot of times. The Texas game was an ugly game to watch the other day. 53-52 and they are an up tempo team.
A slower paced style can still be fun to watch when executed very well.
Last five games of the season, with Loyola playing win or go home games.
W73-49
W65-49
W75-65
w71-60
W71-58
I watched 2 of those games. Far from boring.
Marquette's last five games with a coach with an "up tempo" style of play
W83-70
L62-80
W77-71
W66-59
L49-68
2 blowout losses and a win scoring 66. Loyola scored more points than us when you add the scores for those 5 games. Point is I will gladly take 5-0 over 3-2.
I don't completely disregard style of play and tempo with Moser but I think we win way more than we lose with him and well back to my original point winning makes games more fun to watch, even the grinders.
I'm not quite sold yet on Gates' coaching ability. Doesn't mean he wouldn't be a great hire. I just think there is a little bit more risk involved.
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Al's teams were petty deliberate. In fact his teams were praised in limiting the number of possessions per game. I guess Al's teams would be boring. But then there was no shot clock.
Agree. I wasn't bored watching Loyola play. It was so impressive how well coached they were and how deliberate. Scoopers are used to watching high turn over Wojo ball. We're much better off playing Moser ball which is more entertaining than Bennett or Hard slow ball with slow players.
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For a small school guy it’s important to see how their coaching/recruits match up against the best competition. I think tourney results are fairly important on a small school coach’s resume.
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I am just glad we have good choices this time around.
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I am just glad we have good choices this time around.
Agreed. I’d take any of 2021 Gates, Moser, Smith, or Kelsey over 2014 Wojo, Cuonzo or Howland.
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Marquette could build a helipad on top of the AL and lease a helicopter as part of the package if he did not want to move.
That's what the Orlando Magic did for the DeVos family, who lives in Windsor, about 10 miles north of Vero Beach, FL and about 80 air miles southeast of the Amway Arena.
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Agreed. I’d take any of 2021 Gates, Moser, Smith, or Kelsey over 2014 Wojo, Cuonzo or Howland.
Easy to say now, but in 2014 Howland was just six years away from his third consecutive Final Four, Martin was coming off a 24-win, Sweet 16 season in the SEC, and Wojo was one of the top assistants in the country. And then there was Shaka, coming off four straight tournament appearances, including a Final Four.
In hindsight, blah. But back then, it was fine.
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Easy to say now, but in 2014 Howland was just six years away from his third consecutive Final Four, Martin was coming off a 24-win, Sweet 16 season in the SEC, and Wojo was one of the top assistants in the country. And then there was Shaka, coming off four straight tournament appearances, including a Final Four.
In hindsight, blah. But back then, it was fine.
Howland had the SI expose article on the UCLA program troubles. Martin was getting run out from UT. Shaka had some dirt on him (his assistant was Will Wade).
Martin was the best of the three (who I wanted) but apparently PPT mastery was his downfall.
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Easy to say now, but in 2014 Howland was just six years away from his third consecutive Final Four, Martin was coming off a 24-win, Sweet 16 season in the SEC, and Wojo was one of the top assistants in the country. And then there was Shaka, coming off four straight tournament appearances, including a Final Four.
In hindsight, blah. But back then, it was fine.
**2021, Brian Wardle off an 11-15 season at Bradley
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I thought the Loyola/Illinois game was as entertaining as any I’ve seen in the tournament.
I was thinking the exact same thing, Lenny. I've seen Loyola play 3 full games this season. 2 were reasonably entertaining and the third, the Illinois game, was very much so.
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Short answer. Why would you look at 2% of the available data and ignore the other 98%?
March success is a data point in a sea of data points. It should be considered but fans have the tendency to only look at March success. Brew's rule is a good one, if they wouldn't be your coach on March 1, they shouldn't be your coach on April 1.
People only knew who Shaka was because of March success at VCU.
In his first 5 years at Texas, he had one winning conference season - his first, with Barnes' players. In his second, he was 11-22 overall. He finally had a winning conference season this year, his 6th, when he finished in 3rd place.
Yes, he then won the B12 tournament -- which, of course, was in March, so I guess it shouldn't matter as much? He followed that up by watching his team get completely outplayed by an untalented Southland Conference squad; but that was in March, so I guess who cares? Except for Scholl specifically said that March success matters, and it obviously matters to fans. So we should point to Shaka's March 2011 success to cover that and not all the March losing the last 8 years?
With Shaka, it's confusing trying to figure out which data points to look at, TAMU!
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Generally agree, but there is a middle ground between 'he is your guy' and 'he isn't your guy': A coach who is on your short list on March 1 might (reasonably) move up a spot or two in your hierarchy by April 1.
Say he was a very close #3 on March 1, then makes a FF run. I don't think it's unreasonable to take that run into account and move him up to #1 or #2.
Oh absolutely. Moser is a great example. He was in my "other coaches considered" prior to his current tournament run. Now he's in my 5 or 6 guys I'd bring into an interview. He's towards the back of it but I think he's earned his way into the conversation. It's not that tournament success shouldn't be considered, it just shouldn't be overvalued when making the decision.
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Oh absolutely. Moser is a great example. He was in my "other coaches considered" prior to his current tournament run. Now he's in my 5 or 6 guys I'd bring into an interview. He's towards the back of it but I think he's earned his way into the conversation. It's not that tournament success shouldn't be considered, it just shouldn't be overvalued when making the decision.
Sorry with all the threads, was Gates higher or lower than Moser on your list and why? I ask because it seem from all the talk here he is our next coach.
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Sorry with all the threads, was Gates higher or lower than Moser on your list and why? I ask because it seem from all the talk here he is our next coach.
I had Gates higher but in all honesty, it was a gut feeling pick. There just isn't enough data on him to feel good one way or the other. I love his recruiting at FSU, I love that he took a win now approach at Cleveland State and pulled it off, and I love his connection to Marquette and Chicago. Could be that he's a flash in the pan who will flame out terribly at a higher level but I think the early returns are good.
Moser has earned his way into an interview for sure but my concern with him is inconsistency. 5 seasons significantly overperforming KenPom expectations at Loyola, 4 seasons significantly underperforming KenPom expectations at Loyola, one season playing to expectations (but expectations were artificially lowered due to underperforming the season before). That sort of inconsistency doesn't jive with me but there's no question that's he's built Loyola's program significantly.
At this point, I'd interview Smith, Gates, Moser, and Smart and pick the one who I felt was the best fit for our program.
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I had Gates higher but in all honesty, it was a gut feeling pick. There just isn't enough data on him to feel good one way or the other. I love his recruiting at FSU, I love that he took a win now approach at Cleveland State and pulled it off, and I love his connection to Marquette and Chicago. Could be that he's a flash in the pan who will flame out terribly at a higher level but I think the early returns are good.
Moser has earned his way into an interview for sure but my concern with him is inconsistency. 5 seasons significantly overperforming KenPom expectations at Loyola, 4 seasons significantly underperforming KenPom expectations at Loyola, one season playing to expectations (but expectations were artificially lowered due to underperforming the season before). That sort of inconsistency doesn't jive with me but there's no question that's he's built Loyola's program significantly.
At this point, I'd interview Smith, Gates, Moser, and Smart and pick the one who I felt was the best fit for our program.
Al was 109/63 at Belmont Abbey. Looks good on paper but his record got worse each succeeding year ending with 2 losing seasons. I wonder what the MU administration was thinking when they hired AL and of course no Scoop to go ballistic: Al who? Like stocks or ETFs past performance does not guarantee success. Regardless the program could not continue the way it has.
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On a lighter side:
Several Scoopers have very kindly paved the way for Moser coming to Marquette, including listing travel distances between Wilmette and Milwaukee (well, it took a couple of tries to get the miles right), variations on the travel time depending upon traffic and other variables, a suggestion of a buying a condo in the burbs of Milwaukee, and a proposed helicopter pad on the roof of the Al plus a leased chopper.
We even took his daughter's transfer to Marquette into consideration, suggesting that Duffey should find a spot for her on the team (quickly countered that this would not be fair to other recruits) and then realized that she would have free tuition with her father as a Marquette employee. I missed my chance on posting my suggestion regarding the bball issue. I was going to post that Marquette should do the same thing as was done to her father- offer her a scholarship and quickly withdraw it. Anyway, she's transferring to Marquette if her father takes the job. She just doesn't know it yet. Staying at Loyola is not an option.
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On a lighter side:
Several Scoopers have very kindly paved the way for Moser coming to Marquette, including listing travel distances between Wilmette and Milwaukee (well, it took a couple of tries to get the miles right), variations on the travel time depending upon traffic and other variables, a suggestion of a buying a condo in the burbs of Milwaukee, and a proposed helicopter pad on the roof of the Al plus a leased chopper.
We even took his daughter's transfer to Marquette into consideration, suggesting that Duffey should find a spot for her on the team (quickly countered that this would not be fair to other recruits) and then realized that she would have free tuition with her father as a Marquette employee. I missed my chance on posting my suggestion regarding the bball issue. I was going to post that Marquette should do the same thing as was done to her father- offer her a scholarship and quickly withdraw it. Anyway, she's transferring to Marquette if her father takes the job. She just doesn't know it yet. Staying at Loyola is not an option.
You missed the telePORTER that Dick Strong is building.
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On a lighter side:
Several Scoopers have very kindly paved the way for Moser coming to Marquette, including listing travel distances between Wilmette and Milwaukee (well, it took a couple of tries to get the miles right), variations on the travel time depending upon traffic and other variables, a suggestion of a buying a condo in the burbs of Milwaukee, and a proposed helicopter pad on the roof of the Al plus a leased chopper.
We even took his daughter's transfer to Marquette into consideration, suggesting that Duffey should find a spot for her on the team (quickly countered that this would not be fair to other recruits) and then realized that she would have free tuition with her father as a Marquette employee. I missed my chance on posting my suggestion regarding the bball issue. I was going to post that Marquette should do the same thing as was done to her father- offer her a scholarship and quickly withdraw it. Anyway, she's transferring to Marquette if her father takes the job. She just doesn't know it yet. Staying at Loyola is not an option.
Couldn't we just solve the travel issue with a hyperloop?
Six minutes, give or take, from Wilmette to campus.
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I am concerned about Mrs. Gates at BC...we need a Scoop solve.
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There are some posters I really truly respect on here, but man I wish Rick was alive to read these takes on Porter. He'd sign up under the name JingsBestDiner and absolutely shred these takes, respectfully.
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Lens
No doubt Rick would be in Poser camp and be claiming Jings in the best. That said, Rick had about 250 Jings. I love Poser big time, not just sold on him quite yet. My last conversation with Rick was on a pier on Pine Lake and he hated, hated recruiting. That is my only reservation.
By the way, I never shared his love of Jings. Plenty of other options shared with Rick trumped that pick. Might have been a sentimental spot for the big guy.
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Talking about Porter Moser on ESPNU Radio now. Mostly seemed to talk about Marquette, DePaul and Loyola.
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Talking about Porter Moser on ESPNU Radio now. Mostly seemed to talk about Marquette, DePaul and Loyola.
Sirius XM channel 84?
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I had Gates higher but in all honesty, it was a gut feeling pick. There just isn't enough data on him to feel good one way or the other. I love his recruiting at FSU, I love that he took a win now approach at Cleveland State and pulled it off, and I love his connection to Marquette and Chicago. Could be that he's a flash in the pan who will flame out terribly at a higher level but I think the early returns are good.
Moser has earned his way into an interview for sure but my concern with him is inconsistency. 5 seasons significantly overperforming KenPom expectations at Loyola, 4 seasons significantly underperforming KenPom expectations at Loyola, one season playing to expectations (but expectations were artificially lowered due to underperforming the season before). That sort of inconsistency doesn't jive with me but there's no question that's he's built Loyola's program significantly.
At this point, I'd interview Smith, Gates, Moser, and Smart and pick the one who I felt was the best fit for our program.
I would rate Smith, Moser, Gates - in that order. No interest in Shaka at all.
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I would rate Smith, Moser, Gates - in that order. No interest in Shaka at all.
I'm down with Smith & Gates. Porterhouse? Just not there yet.
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Lens
No doubt Rick would be in Poser camp and be claiming Jings in the best. That said, Rick had about 250 Jings. I love Poser big time, not just sold on him quite yet. My last conversation with Rick was on a pier on Pine Lake and he hated, hated recruiting. That is my only reservation.
By the way, I never shared his love of Jings. Plenty of other options shared with Rick trumped that pick. Might have been a sentimental spot for the big guy.
Any Bingo's Bar mentions!
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Dr.
Plenty of memories prior to Bingo’s. Couple of legends, quite honestly, a lot of nonsense learned at young age by this MU fan and still deeply part of what I became as an old MU fan.
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Couldn't we just solve the travel issue with a hyperloop?
Six minutes, give or take, from Wilmette to campus.
Better known on Scoop as the Hoopaloop.
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LOL dude u are miserable
No, not really. I'm fine with whomever we end up with as our coach within reason, and Moser is definitely within reason. But I'm not super excited about watching slow ball. I merely pointed out the fact that LOC plays slow ball and presented evidence to back up what I said. I didn't add my feelings, or my observations. You did that.
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Lens
No doubt Rick would be in Poser camp and be claiming Jings in the best. That said, Rick had about 250 Jings. I love Poser big time, not just sold on him quite yet. My last conversation with Rick was on a pier on Pine Lake and he hated, hated recruiting. That is my only reservation.
By the way, I never shared his love of Jings. Plenty of other options shared with Rick trumped that pick. Might have been a sentimental spot for the big guy.
The beauty of Jing's was how the owner just adored him and I don't think she knew he was a world class basketball mind. I did always love how he would ask her if she knew anyone like Yao Ming back home. I guess that was the extent of his recruiting.
I can't speak to Porter's love or hate of recruiting but looking at their 247 profile, he is always 1 or 2 in the MVC...seems like he knows how to recruit to his locale. Dude seems hyper competitive, I bet he figures it out.
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No, not really. I'm fine with whomever we end up with as our coach within reason, and Moser is definitely within reason. But I'm not super excited about watching slow ball. I merely pointed out the fact that LOC plays slow ball and presented evidence to back up what I said. I didn't add my feelings, or my observations. You did that.
Well, you looked at a single stat and deduced "slow & boring." People who have actually watched them play would say they are anything but either of those. Not sure how that's "adding feelings."
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Agreed. I’d take any of 2021 Gates, Moser, Smith, or Kelsey over 2014 Wojo, Cuonzo or Howland.
Agree.
Speaking of Kelsey, is there anything out there specifically linking him to the MU job, or is the speculation based simply on the fact that he seems to have the right qualifications?
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Better known on Scoop as the Hoopaloop.
I think we should call it the Scoopaloop.®️
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Agree.
Speaking of Kelsey, is there anything out there specifically linking him to the MU job, or is the speculation based simply on the fact that he seems to have the right qualifications?
Kelcey seems to be a bad combo of Buzz and TC.
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Moser’s team is picked to win by 6.5 for S16 round. Let’s see how they do as fairly big favorites.
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No, not really. I'm fine with whomever we end up with as our coach within reason, and Moser is definitely within reason. But I'm not super excited about watching slow ball. I merely pointed out the fact that LOC plays slow ball and presented evidence to back up what I said. I didn't add my feelings, or my observations. You did that.
If MUs coach consistently makes the S16 they can play as slow as they want.
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https://twitter.com/patnshaker/status/1374593474440351744?s=21
Taking it with a grain of salt — could just be a guy swinging for the fences by calling it early so more people listen to his podcast. I’m too tired to go into a deep dive of his page to decipher his credibility, but figured it was at least worth a mention here.
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https://twitter.com/patnshaker/status/1374593474440351744?s=21
Taking it with a grain of salt — could just be a guy swinging for the fences by calling it early so more people listen to his podcast. I’m too tired to go into a deep dive of his page to decipher his credibility, but figured it was at least worth a mention here.
"...in line to become the Head Coach at #Marquette..." Like, first in line? Because in such situations, one's position in line makes all the difference.
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"...in line to become the Head Coach at #Marquette..." Like, first in line? Because in such situations, one's position in line makes all the difference.
True haha but I don’t think it would be BREAKING to say he was merely “in line” to become the coach when it’s been widely reported already that he was a candidate.
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True haha but I don’t think it would be BREAKING to say he was merely “in line” to become the coach when it’s been widely reported already that he was a candidate.
Too many of these guys are presenting their guesses as inside info to make themselves look like they have connections if their guesses play out. When they do not- well, "there must have been a last minute change". I am so glad this never happens on Scoop.
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Too many of these guys are presenting their guesses as inside info to make themselves look like they have connections if their guesses play out. When they do not- well, "there must have been a last minute change". I am so glad this never happens on Scoop.
This is also a tricky time period with the tourney going on. I hope that those that do know stay tight lipped as to not create a stir on where this is going.
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This is also a tricky time period with the tourney going on. I hope that those that do know stay tight lipped as to not create a stir on where this is going.
Yeah. If Moser is heading to Marquette -- and I, for one, have no sources on this point -- it would kind of suck if everyone is keeping a lid on it but the LUC players found out because some no-name podcaster took a shot in the dark citing "sources" and then more established media report the "rumor" from "sources".
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Yeah. If Moser is heading to Marquette -- and I, for one, have no sources on this point -- it would kind of suck if everyone is keeping a lid on it but the LUC players found out because some no-name podcaster took a shot in the dark citing "sources" and then more established media report the "rumor" from "sources".
I'm guessing that Loyola's players are pretty intelligent and realize there's a good possibility their coach will go elsewhere. They should take pride in knowing that it was their play that helped their coach advance his career, just as he would be proud of any of them who advance in theirs (basketball careers or "life careers").
I do hope that Moser won't pull the old Gary Barnett or Lou Holtz (or many others) and tell his kids that he "bleeds Loyola maroon" and will never leave ... only days (or hours) before accepting an offer to leave.
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Because winning in the tournament is a terrible measure for projecting successful high major coaches.
Because when he was in the Dakotas he didn't just recruit the Dakotas. He recruited Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Illinois heavily. And at Utah he hasn't just recruited Utah, he's actually become an expert in international recruiting, pulling kids from Russia, Australia, and Canada. Also because in his three years at Utah St, he's recruited 5 out of the 10 highest rated recruits in school history per 247.
The above statement in bold isn't a fact, right? But just your opinion?
It sounds like you're asserting that this is a fact.
Its an opinion supported by facts.
Short answer. Why would you look at 2% of the available data and ignore the other 98%?
March success is a data point in a sea of data points. It should be considered but fans have the tendency to only look at March success. Brew's rule is a good one, if they wouldn't be your coach on March 1, they shouldn't be your coach on April 1.
Let’s just agree to disagree on this one. In my opinion, the NCAA is more important than being just 2% of the season.
The metric of NCAA tournament success to project high-major success, in my opinion, isn’t the best metric or one of the top metrics but to say that this metric is a “terrible measure” is unwise.
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I'm guessing that Loyola's players are pretty intelligent and realize there's a good possibility their coach will go elsewhere. They should take pride in knowing that it was their play that helped their coach advance his career, just as he would be proud of any of them who advance in theirs (basketball careers or "life careers").
I do hope that Moser won't pull the old Gary Barnett or Lou Holtz (or many others) and tell his kids that he "bleeds Loyola maroon" and will never leave ... only days (or hours) before accepting an offer to leave.
I have no doubt that they’re intelligent and aware of the possibility — maybe even likelihood. But I do think they should hear it from him at the time of his choosing. Not during the week leading up to the biggest game of their season because some podcaster took a shot in the dark.
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If what I read about Moser is true, no way does he do that.
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We should know pretty well the dangers of prematurely saying a coach to a school is a done deal.
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I have no doubt that they’re intelligent and aware of the possibility — maybe even likelihood. But I do think they should hear it from him at the time of his choosing. Not during the week leading up to the biggest game of their season because some podcaster took a shot in the dark.
I agree with you ... but my agreeing with you doesn't change this fact: That's life.
I mean, it was life in the 1980s and 1990s and 2000s, too. But with social media, everything is amplified and sped up, everything is speculated on second-by-second, and it's all "out there."
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We should know pretty well the dangers of prematurely saying a coach to a school is a done deal.
As Badger fans might recall regarding a certain Bobby Knight.
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We should know pretty well the dangers of prematurely saying a coach to a school is a done deal.
Until someone gets on the podium with Scholl and the left over players sitting in the front row, I'm not buying what any twitter account is saying this time around. Partially because of what happened last time, but also because I'd be happy with a few different options this time around. Last time I was emotionally invested in one candidate unfortunately.
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Yeah. If Moser is heading to Marquette -- and I, for one, have no sources on this point -- it would kind of suck if everyone is keeping a lid on it but the LUC players found out because some no-name podcaster took a shot in the dark citing "sources" and then more established media report the "rumor" from "sources".
Am I recalling correctly that when KO lead MU against Duke in SW16 In Knoxville that his players spoke openly about him taking the Tennessee job? Didn’t Roney say something in his presser about the players saying “Hey, KO this campus is pretty nice.” I heard a Crean met with some Addidas reps prior to MU’s game vs Stanford in San Jose...I am sure I have details incorrect, but I wonder how much the kids know already.
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Duplicated post somehow. Deleted.
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I would highly doubt that this podcaster has inside info that has leaked. Could be, but I doubt it as I would think this is held very close to the vest at this point. More likely he is taking a guess based upon there being no hot Marquette rumors, no one hired yet, and thus logically Marquette is waiting for Moser to finish the season (or one could speculate, in the alternative, MU is waiting for Shaka to be fired or get a lower buyout in place). This guy goes with Moser, which seems most likely, and simply says what many of us are thinking.
Now, if Marquette is waiting, Moser may not have made a decision yet. He might be interested, he might say probably, he might even say yes. Even if he said yes, I want the job, that could easily change at anytime as we know. He could be looking at a couple of schools as well, has Indiana hired their coach yet? Could Moser want to stay at Loyola and get a big pay bump?
I for one will sit back and wait, and if we go into Saturday without a hire, I would think we are targeting Moser with some sort of expression of interest communicated to MU. it also could be someone else in the tournament that Marquette wants (an assistant?), Shaka if fired or buyout is lowered a lot, or extended negotiations with someone who is very particular about what they want.
But if we go into the weekend and no hire or strong rumors or smoke, one can surmise that the most likely scenario is that Moser has indicated some interest and MU is waiting for him. One can surmise that now, which is what the podcaster likely did.
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I would highly doubt that this podcaster has inside info that has leaked. Could be, but I doubt it as I would think this is held very close to the vest at this point. More likely he is taking a guess based upon there being no hot Marquette rumors, no one hired yet, and thus logically Marquette is waiting for Moser to finish the season (or one could speculate, in the alternative, MU is waiting for Shaka to be fired or get a lower buyout in place). This guy goes with Moser, which seems most likely, and simply says what many of us are thinking.
Now, if Marquette is waiting, Moser may not have made a decision yet. He might be interested, he might say probably, he might even say yes. Even if he said yes, I want the job, that could easily change at anytime as we know. He could be looking at a couple of schools as well, has Indiana hired their coach yet? Could Moser want to stay at Loyola and get a big pay bump?
I for one will sit back and wait, and if we go into Saturday without a hire, I would think we are targeting Moser with some sort of expression of interest communicated to MU. it also could be someone else in the tournament that Marquette wants (an assistant?), Shaka if fired or buyout is lowered a lot, or extended negotiations with someone who is very particular about what they want.
But if we go into the weekend and no hire or strong rumors or smoke, one can surmise that the most likely scenario is that Moser has indicated some interest and MU is waiting for him. One can surmise that now, which is what the podcaster likely did.
I agree that if no announcement is made before next week that the AD is interested in direct talks with Moser. If Moser was not interested he would already know and announce Gates or Smith as our head coach. So if you see white smoke from Jesu Marquette has a new coach.
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I'm guessing that Loyola's players are pretty intelligent and realize there's a good possibility their coach will go elsewhere. They should take pride in knowing that it was their play that helped their coach advance his career, just as he would be proud of any of them who advance in theirs (basketball careers or "life careers").
I do hope that Moser won't pull the old Gary Barnett or Lou Holtz (or many others) and tell his kids that he "bleeds Loyola maroon" and will never leave ... only days (or hours) before accepting an offer to leave.
I would also hope Moser would address it to some point with his players now, essentially saying something like, I'll always encourage each and everyone of you to pursue every option available to see if it is a good fit for your long-term goals, and that they should never close a door before at least peeking at what's on the other side.
But that now is not the time to be looking at other doors. They have the most important door of their lives right in front of them, and they need to do everything they can to bust that door down and shock the world...again.
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There's no indication this barely-followed podcaster has ever broken news before or has any credibility. I'll wait until someone staking out Moser's house sees him leave in an unmarked vehicle headed north.
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Good info (thanks too Rob). Honestly, my main concern with Moser is tempo. I don't doubt he can win, and we'd all be happy with that. But his teams generally play at a tempo slower than WI, and on par with VA. I couldn't make fun of how boring those two teams are if we hire Moser. :(
Gates plays slow too.
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So at this point are we hoping moser loses so we can find out sooner than later? Or are we hoping he advances so he can have a better pitch to the top players we all want to keep
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I would also hope Moser would address it to some point with his players now, essentially saying something like, I'll always encourage each and everyone of you to pursue every option available to see if it is a good fit for your long-term goals, and that they should never close a door before at least peeking at what's on the other side.
But that now is not the time to be looking at other doors. They have the most important door of their lives right in front of them, and they need to do everything they can to bust that door down and shock the world...again.
I don't think it's something he would, or should, raise one way or the other.
The best way to get his players to tune out the noise is to act as if you're tuning out the noise.
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There's no indication this barely-followed podcaster has ever broken news before or has any credibility. I'll wait until someone staking out Moser's house sees him leave in an unmarked vehicle headed north.
I think there would be a bigger scoop than the MU job. That would mean he escaped the bubble and is in the wind.
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Gates plays slow too.
The average pace of CSU the last 2 years under Gates is more than 150 spots higher than Loyola. They may not be Arkansas but it’s no comparison
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I would also hope Moser would address it to some point with his players now, essentially saying something like, I'll always encourage each and everyone of you to pursue every option available to see if it is a good fit for your long-term goals, and that they should never close a door before at least peeking at what's on the other side.
But that now is not the time to be looking at other doors. They have the most important door of their lives right in front of them, and they need to do everything they can to bust that door down and shock the world...again.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT......
SHOW SOME FRIGGIN "RESPECT".....
TWO WEEKS OUT OF YOUR LIFE NOT KNOWING WHO THE NEXT MARQUETTE COACH IS NOT GOING TO "CHAGE YOUR LIFE".....
LET THEM HAVE THEIR RUN......
WHAT WILL BE .....WILL BE.....ONCE THE TOURNEY IS OVER!
TELL HIS PLAYERS NOW.....DON'T BE A COMPLETE IDIOT......
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Sun-Times article on Moser. Mentions DePaul.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/3/23/22347245/loyola-porter-moser-how-long-will-he-stay-brad-stevens-butler-indiana-marquette
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So everyone here thinks that the LMU players knowing whether Moser is leaving or staying is going to affect how they playout the rest of the tournament?
1977 my friends, 1977.
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THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT......
SHOW SOME FRIGGIN "RESPECT".....
TWO WEEKS OUT OF YOUR LIFE NOT KNOWING WHO THE NEXT MARQUETTE COACH IS NOT GOING TO "CHAGE YOUR LIFE".....
LET THEM HAVE THEIR RUN......
WHAT WILL BE .....WILL BE.....ONCE THE TOURNEY IS OVER!
TELL HIS PLAYERS NOW.....DON'T BE A COMPLETE IDIOT......
WHY.....ARE.....YOU.....SCREAMING.....AT.....US?!?!?
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THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT......
SHOW SOME FRIGGIN "RESPECT".....
TWO WEEKS OUT OF YOUR LIFE NOT KNOWING WHO THE NEXT MARQUETTE COACH IS NOT GOING TO "CHAGE YOUR LIFE".....
LET THEM HAVE THEIR RUN......
WHAT WILL BE .....WILL BE.....ONCE THE TOURNEY IS OVER!
TELL HIS PLAYERS NOW.....DON'T BE A COMPLETE IDIOT......
Whether intentionally or unintentionally, this is a really funny post. Made me laugh out loud.
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So everyone here thinks that the LMU players knowing whether Moser is leaving or staying is going to affect how they playout the rest of the tournament?
1977 my friends, 1977.
Yep. Still, there is a difference between knowing your coach is retiring - one could even say that would inspire players to send him out with a title - and knowing your coach is leaving for something "better." And don't forget that Al's players knew way before the tournament, while Moser's would be learning during the middle of it.
I would also hope Moser would address it to some point with his players now, essentially saying something like, I'll always encourage each and everyone of you to pursue every option available to see if it is a good fit for your long-term goals, and that they should never close a door before at least peeking at what's on the other side.
But that now is not the time to be looking at other doors. They have the most important door of their lives right in front of them, and they need to do everything they can to bust that door down and shock the world...again.
I don't think it's something he would, or should, raise one way or the other.
The best way to get his players to tune out the noise is to act as if you're tuning out the noise.
forget and Pak:
One has to be realistic in these situations. Moser's future has been all over the news, all over ESPN, all over social media. The Loyola players are well aware their coach is a hot topic. When they are made available to the media on Thursday and/or Friday, they will be asked what they think about their coach possibly leaving, and they'll probably be asked several times. So while Pak is right that it's best for them to "tune out the noise," that's easier said than done because there will be more than just a little noise about this topic.
I don't think Moser has an obligation to bring it up with the team, but I think if I were him I'd find a way to do so in advance of that media availability.
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Can we not let this random Moser tweet become #DoneDealPart2 ?
That was obviously an embarrassing debacle. We can wait a week or two before anything becomes officially official to start getting excited or assuming anything.
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THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT......
SHOW SOME FRIGGIN "RESPECT".....
TWO WEEKS OUT OF YOUR LIFE NOT KNOWING WHO THE NEXT MARQUETTE COACH IS NOT GOING TO "CHAGE YOUR LIFE".....
LET THEM HAVE THEIR RUN......
WHAT WILL BE .....WILL BE.....ONCE THE TOURNEY IS OVER!
TELL HIS PLAYERS NOW.....DON'T BE A COMPLETE IDIOT......
This looks like Jae Crowder's Twitter posts
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So everyone here thinks that the LMU players knowing whether Moser is leaving or staying is going to affect how they playout the rest of the tournament?
1977 my friends, 1977.
Who is LMU. ?-(
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Can we not let this random Moser tweet become #DoneDealPart2 ?
That was obviously an embarrassing debacle. We can wait a week or two before anything becomes officially official to start getting excited or assuming anything.
I have a hunch the Milwaukee news stations will not be running with this one.
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So at this point are we hoping moser loses so we can find out sooner than later? Or are we hoping he advances so he can have a better pitch to the top players we all want to keep
Yes
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The average pace of CSU the last 2 years under Gates is more than 150 spots higher than Loyola. They may not be Arkansas but it’s no comparison
Nova is 338 and UCONN 308 in adj tempo rank. Faster may be more enjoyable but better defensive teams tend to play with lower tempos. That's not saying you can't win in various ways.
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Yes
My thoughts exactly
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Who is LMU. ?-(
Got my Loyolas mixed up.
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Nova is 338 and UCONN 308 in adj tempo rank. Faster may be more enjoyable but better defensive teams tend to play with lower tempos. That's not saying you can't win in various ways.
Wonder if Villanova fans are worried that no good players will want to play for Jay Wright.
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Yes
A guy w 2 final fours has some serious street cred to get the players he wants, but a guy w 2 final fours can also be patient with opportunities. So yeah, if he's the guy, would rather him lose than get too big for what MU is offering.
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I agree that if no announcement is made before next week that the AD is interested in direct talks with Moser. If Moser was not interested he would already know and announce Gates or Smith as our head coach. So if you see white smoke from Jesu Marquette has a new coach.
Along with the white smoke there will be the statement habemus coachum.
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I just can’t believe people really think that Moser would even consider commuting. Even if he lives on the north side of town, NOLA is about a 15 hour drive to Marquette.
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Wonder if Villanova fans are worried that no good players will want to play for Jay Wright.
12 years into his tenure there were real concerns in the Nova fanbase as to whether he could coach the talent he had always attracted. The administration stood by him and soon after that he became a 15 year overnight success at the highest level.
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Wonder if Villanova fans are worried that no good players will want to play for Jay Wright.
Jay puts guys in the NBA. If you play slow and put guys in the nba, then yes, they’ll play for you. There’s a reason locals haven’t gone to Madison
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I just can’t believe people really think that Moser would even consider commuting. Even if he lives on the north side of town, NOLA is about a 15 hour drive to Marquette.
Dudes, he ain't commutin'. Ya by a decent crib in da burbs and put down yo roots. Da hours and obligations connected wit coachin' wood make da drive insufferable. Plus, he's gotta bea a representative of da University in da community. Knot sure how sum of y'all think, hey?
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I consult for several Jesuits schools, and one of my clients is a member of the Society of Jesus and he spent some time at Loyola Chicago. I asked him this morning if it was Kosher for a Jesuit school to poach their next basketball coach from a peer institution. To paraphrase, he basically said if there was an opportunity for an individual to elevate their carer in a way that greater impacts the Jesuit mission then it would be above board. That said, there are professional courtesies MU will need to extend to Loyola.
Essentially, the hiring would all be on the up and up. Porter isn't go to unexpectedly show up at the Pfister at 11 p.m. shouting "It's MU! It's MU!" without both administrations fully in the know and in communication with each other. My guess would be Marquette wouldn't even start that conversation while Loyola is in the tournament still as to not detract from the excitement on their campus.
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There's no indication this barely-followed podcaster has ever broken news before or has any credibility. I'll wait until someone staking out Moser's house sees him leave in an unmarked vehicle headed north.
Lyft Tracker?
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Jay puts guys in the NBA. If you play slow and put guys in the nba, then yes, they’ll play for you. There’s a reason locals haven’t gone to Madison
Kind of a chicken and egg thing, though. Jay has been able to put guys in the NBA because he's recruited high-level talent to Nova. It's not as if he put a bunch of 2- and 3-star kids in the league early in his career, and then started landing 4- and 5-stars.
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Moser cannot commute to coach MU. Aside from turning the program around, he would be the face of the university in a lot of circles. If hired, I would use the hell out of him to promote MU in the community. IMO, commuting is out of the question if I was his boss.
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Reading up on some articles about Moser, this is the guy I want at MU. The only negative I can see is maybe the tempo of play might not be what you want. He ticks every other box with flying colors and he would be extremely successful at Marquette.
My other initial concern on Moser was recruiting but I have no doubts he would bring in high level talent and more importantly, that talent would fit his system. Everything I have read is that he loves to recruit. Recruits like an assistant coach. Tireless and relentless. Impresses in the living room. Does his homework on recruits and gets tons of information on players by talking to as many people as possible about a recruit. No stone unturned. Great excitement and personality. Knows how to close.
He is option #1 then Gates then Smith.
I think all 3 can have huge success at MU.
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Moser cannot commute to coach MU. Aside from turning the program around, he would be the face of the university in a lot of circles. If hired, I would use the hell out of him to promote MU in the community. IMO, commuting is out of the question if I was his boss.
How much say does MU have in someone's living arrangements? I mean we're all considering Gates but his wife works for BC and nobody seems to be bringing up the likely large amount of time he'd be spending visiting Boston.
I mean admittedly the commute thing is far fetched but it's odd to me that we overlook that with gates but shut down the idea that Moser would do something similar letting his teenage kids not be uprooted.
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How much say does MU have in someone's living arrangements? I mean we're all considering Gates but his wife works for BC and nobody seems to be bringing up the likely large amount of time he'd be spending visiting Boston.
Why are we even having this conversation? I don't recall reluctance to move coming up with any other potential hire, ever.
He's either going to move or turn down the position. It's a16+ hour a day job, and for most of the year that is 7 days a week. No one is going to spend 3+ hours per day commuting on top of that.
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Bit of an odd comment. Would have expected something along the lines of Loyola being the place he wants to be. Is now the right time?
https://twitter.com/nypost_brazille/status/1374746858271211523?s=21
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I don't have access to the data (I wonder if anyone on this board might)...
I've sat through several of these searches now and there's a lot of "flavor of the year" stuff. I think that's the last step in an analysis, but it always seems like "backing into a coach" to me.
But, it seems to me that narrowing who we should talk to is relatively straightforward:
1.) Take the top 150-200 recruits for the past three years. Look at their final five choices for destination.
2.) That gives you a list of schools. Now run that list through a ranking filter of overall record...conference record...NCAA Tourney record.
3.) Eliminate the non-starters (Duke, Mich St., etc.) and re-rank.
4.) You have a hit list of coaches who can get to (at least final consideration) top recruits and perform at a decent level.
I'd just be curious what names would drop out of that analysis.
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How much say does MU have in someone's living arrangements? I mean we're all considering Gates but his wife works for BC and nobody seems to be bringing up the likely large amount of time he'd be spending visiting Boston.
I mean admittedly the commute thing is far fetched but it's odd to me that we overlook that with gates but shut down the idea that Moser would do something similar letting his teenage kids not be uprooted.
Remember when Toni Kukoc was with the Bucks? The J/S did a funny story on how he chose to still live in Illinois, and just drove 120 MPH to Milwaukee each day for practice, picking up a ton of speeding tickets along the way. That's one method ;D
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Give him the penthouse in AMU or move him into Pilarz's old crib for a commuter condo. Not a big deal.
Crean used to sleep in his office.
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This commuting issue is really not an issue. He could easily commute if he wants to.
I would have no problems if he said he would take the job but is not moving his family. I would say, great, lets hire a driver, get an apartment, condo, second home or whatever. He is a coach. He lives and breathes coaching. Its not a 8-5 gig. Lots of long hours, lots of road trips. Its not a 10 hour commute. I know so many commuters that take an hour plus each way and they have no issues doing it. Its for him to decide and it might or might not be final factor in his decision. This is a dead issue.
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Why are we even having this conversation? I don't recall reluctance to move coming up with any other potential hire, ever.
He's either going to move or turn down the position. It's a16+ hour a day job, and for most of the year that is 7 days a week. No one is going to spend 3+ hours per day commuting on top of that.
Because, say, unlike Gates in Cleveland or Smith in Utah or even Smart in Austin, Moser had deep roots in Chicago. He grew up in the burbs, has been at Loyola for a decade and, by all accounts, loves the city. So the question about whether he'd want to pick up and move becomes a real (or more real) factor in his decision than it might be for some of the other candidates.
Barring the hyperloop - an option I feel has not been properly explored - him commuting would seem a stretch, though.
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Why are we even having this conversation? I don't recall reluctance to move coming up with any other potential hire, ever.
He's either going to move or turn down the position. It's a16+ hour a day job, and for most of the year that is 7 days a week. No one is going to spend 3+ hours per day commuting on top of that.
Because he put out an article about how much loves Chicago, and loves being able to go to Cubs games whenever he wants, ride the el to work, etc. and somebody said "well what if he just gets a condo in MKE for the late nights" and I agreed till the community obligation point came up. But now I'm just curious if MU actually could even do that and why nobody seems to bring it up with Gates?
Now just devils advocate for the sake of it, let's say he moved 15min north to lake forest so his teenage kids could still be near their friends. That's not a 3hr commute that's a 2hr commute each day. Most of the outer suburban Chicago residents make that commute daily. Add on how much of the job is on the road recruiting or game travel anyways it doesn't strike me as odd. Again I'm just playing devils advocate here but if I were Bill Scholl and that was the main objection I'd have a rebuttal planned along the lines I just wrote.
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My other initial concern on Moser was recruiting but I have no doubts he would bring in high level talent and more importantly, that talent would fit his system. Everything I have read is that he loves to recruit. Recruits like an assistant coach. Tireless and relentless. Impresses in the living room. Does his homework on recruits and gets tons of information on players by talking to as many people as possible about a recruit. No stone unturned. Great excitement and personality. Knows how to close.
I don’t know how people can say this. It’s already been shown that even back to his SLU days he didn’t recruit players at a level close to needed for success here. In the last decade, Marquette has recruited 3 players (Akanno, Greg Elliott, and Ike) that rank lower than the HIGHEST ranked recruit Moser got, even after the FF. Again, nobody is expecting him to be pulling in top 50 guys and top 25 classes at Loyola. But if he is some superlative closer and relentless recruiter like you are claiming, you’d expect him to have pulled some fringe top 150-200 guys. Much less expect him to seamlessly suddenly be able to lock down and sell top 50/75 talent on playing a slow tempo/defense first style?
He may be just fine and I have no doubt he recruits well to fit his system, but acting like it’s a certainty he’d slide in and tear up the recruiting trail is silly and without basis for a guy without any track record of recruiting top tier talent as a HC or AC
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Because, say, unlike Gates in Cleveland or Smith in Utah or even Smart in Austin, Moser had deep roots in Chicago. He grew up in the burbs, has been at Loyola for a decade and, by all accounts, loves the city. So the question about whether he'd want to pick up and move becomes a real (or more real) factor in his decision than it might be for some of the other candidates.
Barring the hyperloop - an option I feel has not been properly explored - him commuting would seem a stretch, though.
You're one of the faces of a University. He either lives in the community or he's not the right coach.
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You're one of the faces of a University. He either lives in the community or he's not the right coach.
So what is the difference between Dennis Gates having a house in Milwaukee while his wife and two kids are in Boston and Porter Moser having a house in Milwaukee while his wife and kids are in the northern burbs of Chicago?
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So what is the difference between Dennis Gates having a house in Milwaukee while his wife and two kids are in Boston and Porter Moser having a house in Milwaukee while his wife and kids are in the northern burbs of Chicago?
I was responding to the commute part. He should live here, not commute. If he thinks commuting is the thing, then I don't think that's the right fit.
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You're one of the faces of a University. He either lives in the community or he's not the right coach.
What's Mrs. Gates' position at Boston College? Is there an equivalent opportunity at MU? Just curious.
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What's Mrs. Gates' position at Boston College? Is there an equivalent opportunity at MU? Just curious.
Associate AD I believe. Could wrong, I know she's not the AD but maybe 2nd or 3rd in line there
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What's Mrs. Gates' position at Boston College? Is there an equivalent opportunity at MU? Just curious.
I doubt they’d hire the BBall coach’s wife at MU in that position. Short of being the AD at UWM, I don’t know if there’s something comparable in the area.
I don’t believe they’ve ever worked in the same city, so this might just be the arrangement that works best for them.
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I don’t know how people can say this. It’s already been shown that even back to his SLU days he didn’t recruit players at a level close to needed for success here. In the last decade, Marquette has recruited 3 players (Akanno, Greg Elliott, and Ike) that rank lower than the HIGHEST ranked recruit Moser got, even after the FF. Again, nobody is expecting him to be pulling in top 50 guys and top 25 classes at Loyola. But if he is some superlative closer and relentless recruiter like you are claiming, you’d expect him to have pulled some fringe top 150-200 guys. Much less expect him to seamlessly suddenly be able to lock down and sell top 50/75 talent on playing a slow tempo/defense first style?
He may be just fine and I have no doubt he recruits well to fit his system, but acting like it’s a certainty he’d slide in and tear up the recruiting trail is silly and without basis for a guy without any track record of recruiting top tier talent as a HC or AC
But that isn't true.
The Majerus/Crews kids he recruited would have done well in the Big East. And of course, he would have more resources at MUBB and, he'd be recruiting to a different league.
Are we going by recruiting rankings out of high school or are we going by results? 14, 19, 35 KenPom results with kids largely recruited by Moser at SLU. I think Majerus proved at multiple locations that recruiting rankings aren't always the be all end all. And Marquette has shown that also by some of its lack of success.
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I don’t know how people can say this. It’s already been shown that even back to his SLU days he didn’t recruit players at a level close to needed for success here.
How many Big 12 quality players did Scott Drew land at Valpo? How many did Chris Beard land at Angelo State and Little Rock?
You're right that it can't be known with certainty that he'll land top-level recruits at Marquette. But the fact he hasn't done so at Loyola doesn't mean much. I keep looking at the fact that he has the #1 or #2 class in his conference five years running and it tells me that relative to similar programs, he''s a top recruiter.
Sure there's risk, but there's risk with all the candidates. It's no guarantee Gates will recruit high-level kids to MU because he did it as an assistant at Florida State. Plenty of top recruiting assistants flop on the trail as head coaches (see: John Groce, Orlando Antigua).
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Because, say, unlike Gates in Cleveland or Smith in Utah or even Smart in Austin, Moser had deep roots in Chicago. He grew up in the burbs, has been at Loyola for a decade and, by all accounts, loves the city. So the question about whether he'd want to pick up and move becomes a real (or more real) factor in his decision than it might be for some of the other candidates.
Barring the hyperloop - an option I feel has not been properly explored - him commuting would seem a stretch, though.
The guy has spent most of his professional career someone else other than Chicago. I think he understands the importance of living in the city where he is working.
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I don’t know how people can say this. It’s already been shown that even back to his SLU days he didn’t recruit players at a level close to needed for success here. In the last decade, Marquette has recruited 3 players (Akanno, Greg Elliott, and Ike) that rank lower than the HIGHEST ranked recruit Moser got, even after the FF. Again, nobody is expecting him to be pulling in top 50 guys and top 25 classes at Loyola. But if he is some superlative closer and relentless recruiter like you are claiming, you’d expect him to have pulled some fringe top 150-200 guys. Much less expect him to seamlessly suddenly be able to lock down and sell top 50/75 talent on playing a slow tempo/defense first style?
He may be just fine and I have no doubt he recruits well to fit his system, but acting like it’s a certainty he’d slide in and tear up the recruiting trail is silly and without basis for a guy without any track record of recruiting top tier talent as a HC or AC
This Loyola team would have finished top 3 Big East and just made the Sweet 16 after dominating the Big Ten champion. That seems successful to me.
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The guy has spent most of his professional career someone else other than Chicago.
Which says nothing about whether he wants to move now, after settling down there for a decade and having a gaggle of school-age kids.
I have no idea his feelings on the matter, but the fact he moved around a lot previously doesn't really mean anything when it comes to what he wants today. For all we know, he hated that part of the job and has little interest in doing it again.
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Which says nothing about whether he wants to move now, after settling down there for a decade and having a gaggle of school-age kids.
I have no idea his feelings on the matter, but the fact he moved around a lot previously doesn't really mean anything when it comes to what he wants today. For all we know, he hated that part of the job and has little interest in doing it again.
Then he should stay at Loyola. Or coach at DePaul.
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Then he should stay at Loyola. Or coach at DePaul.
So you're willing to accept that Gates may fly out to see his family in Boston a bunch but if Moser wants to driving an hour south to see his family he'd be better off staying at Loyola or Depaul?
The different standards here is mind boggling.
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But that isn't true.
The Majerus/Crews kids he recruited would have done well in the Big East. And of course, he would have more resources at MUBB and, he'd be recruiting to a different league.
Are we going by recruiting rankings out of high school or are we going by results? 14, 19, 35 KenPom results with kids largely recruited by Moser at SLU. I think Majerus proved at multiple locations that recruiting rankings aren't always the be all end all. And Marquette has shown that also by some of its lack of success.
Two different discussions. The question is "can Moser recruit top level talent" not "has he identified players from his system that developed well".
Jett-#333, Mitchell-#168, Reed-#262, Reid- #206.McCall was going to go to Illinois St if I recall.
None of those classes were even top 5 in the A10. Results matter more, of course. But show me a team that is consistently successful into the second week of the NCAA tournament and in their major conference without at least a few top 75 guys. Expecting to develop a bunch of 150+ diamond in the rough guys in a major conference schedule is dangerous.
Again, I said I had no doubt he could identify players that fit his system, but no matter how much you want to laud the SLU years till you're blue in the face, he never recruited top 150 guys with any success, period. Can he do it with the BEast behind him? Possibly. But its not like there's experience there
How many Big 12 quality players did Scott Drew land at Valpo? How many did Chris Beard land at Angelo State and Little Rock?
You're right that it can't be known with certainty that he'll land top-level recruits at Marquette. But the fact he hasn't done so at Loyola doesn't mean much. I keep looking at the fact that he has the #1 or #2 class in his conference five years running and it tells me that relative to similar programs, he''s a top recruiter.
Sure there's risk, but there's risk with all the candidates. It's no guarantee Gates will recruit high-level kids to MU because he did it as an assistant at Florida State. Plenty of top recruiting assistants flop on the trail as head coaches (see: John Groce, Orlando Antigua).
Chris Beard spent a decade recruiting at TTU for Bob Knight though. Thats a bit different.
And of course there is risk. I never said there isnt. And Ive never said Moser is a crap recruiter who is destined to fail. Ive only pushed back on this notion that there is no doubt he's gonna be a great recruiter who wont have ANY trouble adjusting. Thats not exaggeration, that level of confidence and assurance has been expressed a dozen times by multiple different posters.
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So you're willing to accept that Gates may fly out to see his family in Boston a bunch but if Moser wants to driving an hour south to see his family he'd be better off staying at Loyola or Depaul?
The different standards here is mind boggling.
Sorry where did I say anything about Gates flying off to Boston???
I think the Marquette coach should primarily live in Milwaukee.
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Gates plays slow too.
As mentioned - limited data, and with that data much more up-tempo than Moser (or Wright...many years...he has had some high tempo teams). Plus with the Florida St. roots (almost always top 100 tempo), you'd expect Gates to trend higher tempo than lower.
But like I said, it's really my only nit. Winning trumps tempo, so I'd happily accept it with Ws. Just not my personal preference.
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Sorry where did I say anything about Gates flying off to Boston???
I think the Marquette coach should primarily live in Milwaukee.
You gave me a very snippy lecture about not all families need to live together regarding Gates. And you've ignored him having a family in another city regarding his candidacy so I've assume you're ok with it.
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Chris Beard spent a decade recruiting at TTU for Bob Knight though. Thats a bit different.
During Beard's 10 years as an assistant at TTU, they landed zero 5-stars and four 4-star kids.
Not exactly a track record that would sell anyone on him being a high-level recruiter.
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Good lord, I wish Scholl would go ahead and hire someone so 'Scoopers could quit arguing about recruiting, commuting, offensive pace and join together in complaining about the hire.
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You gave me a very snippy lecture about not all families need to live together regarding Gates. And you've ignored him having a family in another city regarding his candidacy so I've assume you're ok with it.
When did I give you a "snippy lecture?"
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I have no doubt Moser will recruit successfully at MU, hey?
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Okay, I'm going to rebutt some of my arguments.
"Moser plays slow". Of course he plays slow since the players he recruits aren't top flight athletes. If your players are slow, you can play slow... but you can't play fast.
"Moser can't recruit" Of course he isn't going to be able to attract top talent to a mid major school with limited resources.
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4ever
I said several years ago that I did not care what style of ball they played, as long as they won. I have no doubt that Moser would recruit guys that fits his system and he will be successful. While not my style/type of ball, like everyone on here, I want to see a winning program and that is bottom line. He probably does not need to upgrade recruiting a ton and I agree he likely would recruit to the level he feels is needed.
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Two different discussions. The question is "can Moser recruit top level talent" not "has he identified players from his system that developed well".
Jett-#333, Mitchell-#168, Reed-#262, Reid- #206.McCall was going to go to Illinois St if I recall.
None of those classes were even top 5 in the A10. Results matter more, of course. But show me a team that is consistently successful into the second week of the NCAA tournament and in their major conference without at least a few top 75 guys. Expecting to develop a bunch of 150+ diamond in the rough guys in a major conference schedule is dangerous.
Again, I said I had no doubt he could identify players that fit his system, but no matter how much you want to laud the SLU years till you're blue in the face, he never recruited top 150 guys with any success, period. Can he do it with the BEast behind him? Possibly. But its not like there's experience there
Chris Beard spent a decade recruiting at TTU for Bob Knight though. Thats a bit different.
And of course there is risk. I never said there isnt. And Ive never said Moser is a crap recruiter who is destined to fail. Ive only pushed back on this notion that there is no doubt he's gonna be a great recruiter who wont have ANY trouble adjusting. Thats not exaggeration, that level of confidence and assurance has been expressed a dozen times by multiple different posters.
You said Moser didn't recruit players at SLU good enough to win at Marquette. That isn't true.
Now you are moving the goalposts to teams that are consistently successful the 2nd weekend of the NCAA Tourney, something Marquette has done little of the past 40 plus years.
Moser left SLU for a Head Coaching job at Loyola, to advance his career. Majerus had health problems. You don't think they would have continued to win at those high levels into the NCAA 2nd weekend? SLU was a 14 KenPom losing to a 3 KenPom. Another year they lost to the number 1 KenPom team in NCAA Tourney. These were not in the first round. They had top 5 seeds multiple times.
Facts are facts. Results are results.
You said, "Even in his SLU days, Moser didn't recruit players at a level close to needed for success at Marquette." I said that isn't correct because it isn't.
You have a repeated fixation on St. Louis the metro, and Saint Louis the University which cloud your factual analysis, and doesn't allow you to see the forest for the trees.
You keep referencing recruiting rankings when, at multiple places, Moser has shown he can be successful at high levels without having those.
I am happy to help you with any player background you'd like. Let's pick a random one, you perhaps even accidentally omitted some. Dwayne Evans, Nequa Valley, Illinois Warriors, 26-2 Senior Year, 3rd team all state Chicago Tribune. McCall (24-3 first ever Foreman Public League Title) 2nd team Chicago Tribune. That was the Blackshear year etc...Evans was being recruited mostly by MVC, MAC, schools and Northwestern.
From 2012-2014 their last 3 seasons, only 35 players in the country won 79 or more games. Four of them played for SLU, some guys, named Evans, McCall, Jett, Loe. Evans, Jett etc...first team all conference.
In 2014 Shaka Smart was good enough for many to be the next Head Coach of MUBB. Guess which school beat out VCU for first place that season and the season before before that, and finished 2nd the season before that? SLU. Guess which guy recruited several of those players making much of the difference? Moser.
I didn't even vote for Moser in the poll. (Not that PM wouldn't be successful at MUBB) But this anti SLU or anti St. Louis stuff is silly and strange. Maybe pretend its somewhere else if that helps you. Facts are facts. Shaka is still getting top four votes in the poll here in 2021.
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When did I give you a "snippy lecture?"
Bout a month ago if I recall correctly.
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There is one big hang up for me on Moser. I’m not sure I want a head coach with a first name like Porter.
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There is one big hang up for me on Moser. I’m not sure I want a head coach with a first name like Porter.
What about Stout?
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Oh yeah, Stout sounds more like a man of the people.
Porter sounds way too bourgeoisie.
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Oh yeah, Stout sounds more like a man of the people.
Porter sounds way too bourgeoisie.
Ok. So if Marquette hires him, we have some demands:
1. Live in Milwaukee (Willamette is for yuppies)
2. Change name to Stout Moser
3. Dragon Tattoo across back (optional)
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No better way to see if he’s all in.
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Ok. So if Marquette hires him, we have some demands:
1. Live in Milwaukee (Willamette is for yuppies)
2. Change name to Stout Moser
3. Dragon Tattoo across back (optional)
In the literal meaning of yuppie, Wilmette is the opposite. It means young urban professional and is more closely associated with gentrifying neighborhoods. Ozzy Guillen is a yuppie in Wicker Park (or he was back when he bought the place)
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Ok. So if Marquette hires him, we have some demands:
1. Live in Milwaukee (Willamette is for yuppies)
2. Change name to Stout Moser
3. Dragon Tattoo across back (optional)
I like Shaka, but if Moser did all these, he would definitely move up my list.
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In the literal meaning of yuppie, Wilmette is the opposite. It means young urban professional and is more closely associated with gentrifying neighborhoods. Ozzy Guillen is a yuppie in Wicker Park (or he was back when he bought the place)
What are they called when they claim they live in the city and that they're "just a quick train trip in" but are also afraid of things that don't meet stepford standards? That's the term I am looking for.
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Ok. So if Marquette hires him, we have some demands:
1. Live in Milwaukee (Willamette is for yuppies)
2. Change name to Stout Moser
3. Dragon WalrusTattoo across back (optional)
One small quibble.
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Sirius XM channel 84?
Yes Thank You Sirius XM Channel 84
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Has MU contacted Amtrak about making a stop in Willmete or Glenview for the guy?
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What are they called when they claim they live in the city and that they're "just a quick train trip in" but are also afraid of things that don't meet stepford standards? That's the term I am looking for.
I call them Napervillains but North shore works for that as well.
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I love Scoop
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Has MU contacted Amtrak about making a stop in Willmete or Glenview for the guy?
We're gonna need the DC lobbying contingent of scoop for this one...
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Amtrak Hiawatha runs between Glenview and Milwaukee several times each day. 1 hours and 7 minutes.
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Amtrak Hiawatha runs between Glenview and Milwaukee several times each day. 1 hours and 7 minutes.
Al had his motorcycle Porter's got his train
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Amtrak Hiawatha runs between Glenview and Milwaukee several times each day. 1 hours and 7 minutes.
Different line than Wilmette. Scholl needs to hire the Newton Brothers to divert the switch at Rondout.
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Amtrak Hiawatha runs between Glenview and Milwaukee several times each day. 1 hours and 7 minutes.
Change the name of the line from "Hiawatha" to "Moser"
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Ok. So if Marquette hires him, we have some demands:
1. Live in Milwaukee (Willamette is for yuppies)
2. Change name to Stout Moser
3. Dragon Walrus Tattoo across back (optional)
One small quibble.
I'm sure a walrus in the university seal or as a new mascot came up as an interview question.
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Different line than Wilmette. Scholl needs to hire the Newton Brothers to divert the switch at Rondout.
And to have a train on call for him in Milwaukee for whenever he happens to get done with work.
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We're gonna need the DC lobbying contingent of scoop for this one...
Maybe Marquette's Les Aspin Center in DC would be able to help.
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He could take the private jet from Wheeling......
I love how spell check just changed the word "jet" to "just"......WTF???
Annoying......
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He could take the private jet from Wheeling......
I love how spell check just changed the word "jet" to "just"......WTF???
Annoying......
Driving from Wilmette to Wheeling, flying, and then driving from Mitchell to campus, might take longer than driving from Wilmette to campus. I think a chopper is the solution.
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He could take the private jet from Wheeling......
I love how spell check just changed the word "jet" to "just"......WTF???
Annoying......
The drive from Wilmette from Wheeling alone wouldn't even make that an option. Where's John Candy and Steve Martin when you need them?
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Yes Thank You Sirius XM Channel 84
Thanks. I did listen after you brought it up.
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Crean used to sleep in his office.
Showered there too.
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4ever
I said several years ago that I did not care what style of ball they played, as long as they won. I have no doubt that Moser would recruit guys that fits his system and he will be successful. While not my style/type of ball, like everyone on here, I want to see a winning program and that is bottom line. He probably does not need to upgrade recruiting a ton and I agree he likely would recruit to the level he feels is needed.
Was it Buzz that said he had a "winning" offense and this place went apeshït?
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Was it Buzz that said he had a "winning" offense and this place went apeshït?
Yep, that was his answer early on and at the initial press conference. A winning offense. I think this was way before Charlie Sheens “winning” meltdown.
Buzz was really rough behind the camera and mike for a while. Painfully so. Be he learned and improved. I’m sure the admin got him some help.
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https://www.pscp.tv/w/cys1qDEzMDY1OTAzfDFsRHhMcGFZRFh6eG0orQzrlW6Z8vojO-fNhmYTp0zMLOd17pztUxRo1nhg1Q==?t=44m2s
They talked MU and Moser. (I wanna say around 37min?
Doug gottlieb was on and Trigger Warning. He kinda goes on a rant about the BEast. But also talks about MUBB great culture and his love for MKE and Mike Deane.
Goodman is firm and believes PM is going to be the next MUBB coach to the point that he’s rubbing his head in disgust when someone disagrees.
Dauster believes moser stays at Loyola.
Forgot to add: Gottlieb and Goodman again confirm that moser wants a BEAST job and covets MU but also would take Creighton or DePaul.
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The link says broadcast not found?
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The link says broadcast not found?
Sorry. They reposted it to YouTube.
36 min is MUBB talk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWv5aLDZQj4&feature=youtu.be
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A guy on Twitter made a moser to him larranga comparison. I sure hope that doesn't prove to be true but it is disconcerting
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A guy on Twitter made a moser to him larranga comparison. I sure hope that doesn't prove to be true but it is disconcerting
Possibly...but I think a better Larranaga comparison might be Shaka. Larranaga's only Final Four was 6 seasons before Miami hired him, and he never got as far as the Sweet Sixteen in the 5 seasons at GMU after that; Shaka's only Final Four was 11 years ago, and he hasn't gotten to the Sweet Sixteen in the 10 years since.
Moser is only 3 years post his last Final Four, he might be on his way to another, and he already has another Sweet Sixteen.
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Possibly...but I think a better Larranaga comparison might be Shaka. Larranaga's only Final Four was 6 seasons before Miami hired him, and he never got as far as the Sweet Sixteen in the 5 seasons at GMU after that; Shaka's only Final Four was 11 years ago, and he hasn't gotten to the Sweet Sixteen in the 10 years since.
Moser is only 3 years post his last Final Four, he might be on his way to another, and he already has another Sweet Sixteen.
The big comparison in the twitter exchange was that Larranaga primarily only had success prior to miami due to one player and Moser's success is tied to Cam Krutwig. So how much of it is Moser and how much Krutwig? See also, Wojo and Markus.
The tweet: https://twitter.com/brutus_87to98/status/1375117207760297986 (https://twitter.com/brutus_87to98/status/1375117207760297986)
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The big comparison in the twitter exchange was that Larranaga primarily only had success prior to miami due to one player and Moser's success is tied to Cam Krutwig. So how much of it is Moser and how much Krutwig? See also, Wojo and Markus.
The tweet: https://twitter.com/brutus_87to98/status/1375117207760297986 (https://twitter.com/brutus_87to98/status/1375117207760297986)
Krutwig is a very good player, but by no means was he "the guy" on that Final Four team.
He was 5th in minutes, 5th in scoring, 5th in shot attempts, 2nd in rebounding. Obviously a huge part of their success, but it's not as if he carried that team by himself.
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Matt Norlander makes the case for Porter Moser to leave Loyola for Marquette:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/loyola-isnt-a-cinderella-anymore-under-porter-moser-who-should-favor-marquette-over-indiana-if-he-leaves/
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Matt Norlander makes the case for Porter Moser to leave Loyola for Marquette:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/loyola-isnt-a-cinderella-anymore-under-porter-moser-who-should-favor-marquette-over-indiana-if-he-leaves/
Excellent article. Thank you for posting it.
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Excellent article. Thank you for posting it.
Saw this too Thank You for posting this
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Krutwig is a very good player, but by no means was he "the guy" on that Final Four team.
He was 5th in minutes, 5th in scoring, 5th in shot attempts, 2nd in rebounding. Obviously a huge part of their success, but it's not as if he carried that team by himself.
But, he was rather a catalyst for that team which was 18-17 and 15-17 the two previous seasons with much the same cast without Krutwig. Gave a small team inside prescence.
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Excellent article. Thank you for posting it.
This quote struck me:
He was fired at Illinois State, which amounted to an awakening for him. It was the type of devastating blow that aligned him with Majerus and put him on a trackway to be where he is right now.
Perhaps apples to oranges but is Wojo too proud to find his Rick Majerus to teach him to be a better coach? A multimillion dollar buyout just might blind him to see the light.
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Krutwig is a very good player, but by no means was he "the guy" on that Final Four team.
He was 5th in minutes, 5th in scoring, 5th in shot attempts, 2nd in rebounding. Obviously a huge part of their success, but it's not as if he carried that team by himself.
Totally agree. Especially when you see that Krutwig scored 11, 7, 8 and 9 points and their four wins. He was an important player, but he certainly did not carry that team.
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But, he was rather a catalyst for that team which was 18-17 and 15-17 the two previous seasons with much the same cast without Krutwig. Gave a small team inside prescence.
Well, I did say he was a huge part of the team's success, so it's not like I'm giving him short shrift.
That team also added FDU transfer Marques Townes, who was an immediate starter and Valley player of the year the season after their FF run.
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Clayton Custer was the most important part of the first final 4 run. Krutwig was really good as a freshman, but Custer ran that team.
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This quote struck me:
He was fired at Illinois State, which amounted to an awakening for him. It was the type of devastating blow that aligned him with Majerus and put him on a trackway to be where he is right now.
Perhaps apples to oranges but is Wojo too proud to find his Rick Majerus to teach him to be a better coach? A multimillion dollar buyout just might blind him to see the light.
Agreed, he needs to get as far away from the Duke coaching tree as possible. Go be lead assistant under Few at Gonzaga or Sampson at Houston or something. Learn how to really build a program. Anywhere but Duke or Duke ties. His story is not over, but it's up to him how he shapes it.
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There is a Recruitment and Transfer Announcement Bunker. Is there a Coaching Announcement Bunker, If So, may be there awhile, but am going there since the Marquette administration seems to be playing or keeping this close to the vest which I like.
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I'll say it again (I could be wrong), Wojo isn't going to go be an assistant coach. It's not even close to the same situation of Moser at IL St.
Despite the narrative of MU being sunk to depths never seen before, Wojo largely had mediocre results at a "major" school. He even had some success. He'll likely get a chance at a slight step down this year or next.
I don't disagree that it might do him well to get more tutelage under someone else, but I doubt that happens.
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Fwiw I still think he should be the guy
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Homer Poser Moser is definitely the best fit for MU and they need to back up the Brink truck to get him.