Porter Moser should be the guy

[Goose]

82

Miracles or no miracles, I want a program that we are big favorites in the opening weekend. Every year upsets happen, but I want to see a program were we disappointed being knocked off in the opening weekend, not one that we are driving up and down Wisconsin Ave honking our horns if spring an upset or two.

I am not against Moser one bit, but it seems that the list of candidates is more robust than the last go around. Like I said in a earlier post about coaches knowing their business, my guess fellow coaches would say good for Moser landing the MU gig and he has a chance to turn the program around. Why not get a guy that coaches say behind the scenes that MU landed a great hire. Again, just my take on Moser. I agree he can coach, but I want better players along with a better coach.

[Blackhat]

Only 1300 seats bigger than the Al?  Frankly there are a lot of high school gyms bigger.

[StillAWarrior]

Why not get a guy that coaches say behind the scenes that MU landed a great hire.

And who do you put on that list, Goose? I know you're a fan of Pitino. I'm not sure if that's realistic or not. And, as I admitted a couple days go, I really don't think I want MU to hire Pitino, but I'll be a little excited if they do. But I really, really don't think that there's a chance in hell that will happen.

[MU82]

82

Miracles or no miracles, I want a program that we are big favorites in the opening weekend. Every year upsets happen, but I want to see a program were we disappointed being knocked off in the opening weekend, not one that we are driving up and down Wisconsin Ave honking our horns if spring an upset or two.

I am not against Moser one bit, but it seems that the list of candidates is more robust than the last go around. Like I said in a earlier post about coaches knowing their business, my guess fellow coaches would say good for Moser landing the MU gig and he has a chance to turn the program around. Why not get a guy that coaches say behind the scenes that MU landed a great hire. Again, just my take on Moser. I agree he can coach, but I want better players along with a better coach.

All reasonable, Goose.

6 of Shaka's 7 NCAA Tournament wins came long, long ago when he was not the favorite on opening weekend. His only other, back in 2013, was as a 5-seed. Since then, he's been the favorite on opening weekend several times and spit the bit, including against a former D2 team filled with 6-foot-1 guys.

But yes, I get your point.

As I sit here today, I'm in the "I don't know if I'm sold on Moser yet but I'm don't think I'd be against him" camp. Sounds like you're in a similar place, maybe leaning more No than I am.

[Goose]

StillaWarrior

Realistically Shaka would be my top choice and I stated my reasons earlier today. My love of Pitino is a long love affair and realize MU likely would never hire him and I am fine with that if they chose to stay away from him. I did not know, if factual, that Shaka was a possibility or I would have been on him from the start. There are appears to be some very solid options, if reports are real, and feel MU is in a good place to make a great hire.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU, I'm asking honestly: what guys with "consistent success" as head coaches do you think are viable candidates? I really don't want to see MU go down the assistant path again. Of the names I'm seeing thrown out consistently, I think several are pretty unrealistic, and several don't have "consistent success" as head coaches. I like both Moser and Shaka...with maybe an edge to Moser based, admittedly, on some recency bias. Both have some things that concern me a bit. While I don't know all that much about Gates, I'm not sure he checks that "consistent success" box as a head coach.

My far and away #1 is Craig Smith. He's literally won a coach of the year award at every institution he's head coached for. He consistently outperforms expectations and has built every program he's been a part of. Someone else said it but I agree, I think he profiles similarly to Chris Beard.

Smart was an example of consistent success at VCU. He struggled at Texas but even struggling he had them in the NCAA conversation every year but one and I think there were legitimate reasons outside his control for his lack of success. I think a change of scenery could lead to big success for him.

Beilein is the model of consistent success but the whole thing with the "Thugs" comment bothers me. To be clear, I could absolutely get past it as a person, but the negative recruiting tactics would be so easy. There are so many good coaches these days, why give time to the one who called his team full of mostly Black players thugs?

Not a model of consistent success but high on my list is Dennis Gates. I'll be honest, that's a pure gut feeling pick. I like what he's done so far, I like his recruiting chops from Florida State, and I like that he learned from Leonard Hamilton...but there simply isn't enough data to say that he's the guy for sure. Hoping to scoop up a future great before he blows up. Could end up being a dud. High risk, high reward.

[Goose]

82

Not 100% against Moser and I hope he keeps winning and makes $3m a year for the next decade. He is similar to Rick in loving the coaching side of the game. I talked with Rick countless hours and he loved coaching and he really did not care who was on the team. He was that good of a coach that he could make any team competitive and I think Moser has a lot of Rick in him. Rick hated recruiting and it cost him an even greater career. The two times he had players, once at Ball St and once at Utah, he had great March success. If he had put in effort into getting players he would have won an awful lot more.

I have stated my love of Rick on here a million times and the Moser and Rick relationship actually scares me. There are some coaches that just love coaching and making guys better.  I think the odds of winning with that mindset is better suited for Loyola or SLU than MU.

[Blackhat]

I doubt Shaka would have the talent he had at Texas at MU.  I don't know if I can take anymore not getting the most out of the players talent. 

[StillAWarrior]

StillaWarrior

Realistically Shaka would be my top choice and I stated my reasons earlier today. My love of Pitino is a long love affair and realize MU likely would never hire him and I am fine with that if they chose to stay away from him. I did not know, if factual, that Shaka was a possibility or I would have been on him from the start. There are appears to be some very solid options, if reports are real, and feel MU is in a good place to make a great hire.

Thanks, Goose.  I certainly would not be upset with Shaka (very happy, in fact), but I'm not completely sold. TAMU makes some good points, but there are very few programs that have the resources that Texas has. I just kind of don't like the feel of firing Wojo because he had no tournament wins and then turning around and hiring a coach that also had no tournament wins in his last stop despite having extraordinary resources at his disposal. That said, I absolutely acknowledge that focusing solely on tournament wins misses some of the ways that Shaka is much better than Wojo. But my biggest concern about him is a failure to "get it done" in a program with great resources.

My biggest concern about Moser is whether he can recruit at a high major level. It's impossible to know for sure. But I think it is sometimes unfair to knock a mid-major HC for not being able to recruit -- it's a heck of a lot harder to recruit to LCU than to MU.

[brewcity77]

I hope you're at least ready to admit that 2018 and 2021 have been better than just "decent" seasons for Loyola, but maybe not. If not, I wonder what a "good" season would be!

No matter how it ends, this year is better than decent. 2018, they made a nice run but that just shows the crapshoot of the tourney. They got miracle finishes against Miami and Tennessee then avoided the 2-seed and 1-seed to get to the Final Four in a region that went to shambles. They finished #31 in kenpom, 12 spots behind NIT champion Penn State.

This year they are legitimately good. People saying they are better than the 2018 team are completely right, because the 2018 team wasn't very good, at least not by Final Four standards. When Shaka made his similarly improbable Final Four run, he used that to spark consistent success. Moser didn't, and didn't have a track record before to indicate years like this are the norm.

[willie warrior]

82

Miracles or no miracles, I want a program that we are big favorites in the opening weekend. Every year upsets happen, but I want to see a program were we disappointed being knocked off in the opening weekend, not one that we are driving up and down Wisconsin Ave honking our horns if spring an upset or two.

I am not against Moser one bit, but it seems that the list of candidates is more robust than the last go around. Like I said in a earlier post about coaches knowing their business, my guess fellow coaches would say good for Moser landing the MU gig and he has a chance to turn the program around. Why not get a guy that coaches say behind the scenes that MU landed a great hire. Again, just my take on Moser. I agree he can coach, but I want better players along with a better coach.

C'mon Goose. I agree that the "list" of candidates looks good, but nobody knows how many on that "list" are available/interested. I mean  we have heard names of Matta and Beilein not interested, Pitino that Scholl has already ruled out, Gates who some say will jump when Fla. State calls and so on.We do not even know if Moser is interested, but he deserves to be near the top. We all want better players with a better coach, so if Moser is not your choice, who fits the bill of better players with a better coach. Pitino would get better players and is a better coach. Smart would get better players, but it does not appear he is a better coach. So who fits your bill?

[JWags85]

Only 1300 seats bigger than the Al?  Frankly there are a lot of high school gyms bigger.

Mrs Moser, how many HS gyms do you know that seat 5000 people? Outside of Indiana

[Silkk the Shaka]

I doubt Shaka would have the talent he had at Texas at MU.  I don't know if I can take anymore not getting the most out of the players talent.

Exactly. Enough of that. Shaka is way down my list.

[willie warrior]

StillaWarrior

Realistically Shaka would be my top choice and I stated my reasons earlier today. My love of Pitino is a long love affair and realize MU likely would never hire him and I am fine with that if they chose to stay away from him. I did not know, if factual, that Shaka was a possibility or I would have been on him from the start. There are appears to be some very solid options, if reports are real, and feel MU is in a good place to make a great hire.

Sorry Goose. Did not see this post when I responded to another of your posts. So Shaka or Pitino would be your choices. Unsure if either is a realistic possibility.

[Blackhat]

Mrs Moser, how many HS gyms do you know that seat 5000 people? Outside of Indiana

Lol.  When you use names like a child I think we're done.

[MU82]

My far and away #1 is Craig Smith. He's literally won a coach of the year award at every institution he's head coached for. He consistently outperforms expectations and has built every program he's been a part of. Someone else said it but I agree, I think he profiles similarly to Chris Beard.

Smart was an example of consistent success at VCU. He struggled at Texas but even struggling he had them in the NCAA conversation every year but one and I think there were legitimate reasons outside his control for his lack of success. I think a change of scenery could lead to big success for him.

Beilein is the model of consistent success but the whole thing with the "Thugs" comment bothers me. To be clear, I could absolutely get past it as a person, but the negative recruiting tactics would be so easy. There are so many good coaches these days, why give time to the one who called his team full of mostly Black players thugs?

Not a model of consistent success but high on my list is Dennis Gates. I'll be honest, that's a pure gut feeling pick. I like what he's done so far, I like his recruiting chops from Florida State, and I like that he learned from Leonard Hamilton...but there simply isn't enough data to say that he's the guy for sure. Hoping to scoop up a future great before he blows up. Could end up being a dud. High risk, high reward.

Thanks for that list, TAMU. Can't believe I forgot about Beilein's "thugs" comment -- excellent point about negative recruiting. Plus, his age. And the son thing. I don't know.

Smith and Gates sound great. I am no expert on either Utah State or Cleveland State basketball. Not sure if I've seen 3 minutes of them combined. So I'll take the word of those I respect, and you're certainly in that category.

Shaka ... I think the very best argument for him is the change-of-scenery one, and it's a pretty big one. There have been many cases of a change of scenery helping a coach or athlete reach his or her potential. Shaka no doubt has been humbled by his Texas experience, and very possibly realizes the grass isn't always greener.

When your AD specifically cites lack of NCAA tournament success as a main reason for firing the coach and then replaces that coach with a guy who is 0-fer over 8 years ... I hope you understand why, optics-wise, that's not easy for some to digest. Especially when the last one was against a team that was such an inferior opponent.

It's hard to believe that, 7 years later, we're right back here talkin' about Shaka Effen Smart, but we are.

Haven't decided where Moser fits in all of this for me. I know I wouldn't hate the hire.

Whoever our guy is, I will support him as I have supported every Marquette coach.

We Are Marquette!

[Goose]

wllie

I just got the phone with my rabbi and we talked Rick and Moser for quite some time. Moser can flat out and coach and I would not be angry if he ended up the hire. I do have serious questions about his ability to recruit at BE at level. Some guys, albeit very few, love coaching for the sake of coaching. Rick LOVED making stiffs into players, within his system and Moser being a Rick guy has me worried.

FYI--If Rick were alive and healthy today I would have the same reservations if MU wanted to hire him. I loved Rick coaching a crappy program and work his magic because it was a thing of beauty. There is not a coach around today that would ever dispute Rick was a top five basketball guy, college or pro, and says a lot.

[JWags85]

Lol.  When you use names like a child I think we're done.

Classic deflection when your arguments aren't backed up with facts. You're bordering on breathless with your enthusiasm and fervor for Porter. By tonight, Loyola will be a D3 school playing in a church basement with a team of rag tag cripples lead only by Mosers force of will.  But sure, I'm childish for making a joke when you're spouting baseless nonsense. You called them Loyola Marymount like an hour ago

[shoothoops]

No matter how it ends, this year is better than decent. 2018, they made a nice run but that just shows the crapshoot of the tourney. They got miracle finishes against Miami and Tennessee then avoided the 2-seed and 1-seed to get to the Final Four in a region that went to shambles. They finished #31 in kenpom, 12 spots behind NIT champion Penn State.

This year they are legitimately good. People saying they are better than the 2018 team are completely right, because the 2018 team wasn't very good, at least not by Final Four standards. When Shaka made his similarly improbable Final Four run, he used that to spark consistent success. Moser didn't, and didn't have a track record before to indicate years like this are the norm.

Respectfully, this has gotten silly.

You use KenPom in a supporting way when it fits your preference, but dismiss it when it doesn't. Now 31 KenPom isn't good when higher has been in your other posts about others?

This season, literally just over two months ago, you were ready for Brian Wardle. Today he isn't on your radar.

Again, I don't really care about who you like and don't, but you are being disingenuous at best here.

I would rather you say you don't like Moser, but you realize his resume has been better than others you have advocated, here recently etc...

[MU82]

a D3 school playing in a church basement with a team of rag tag cripples

For a second, I thought you were talking about Abilene Christian ... but you didn't mention that they also were incredibly short and couldn't shoot, so you must be talkin' about someone else!!

[Blackhat]

Your joke didn't even make sense.   And there are at least 16 hs gyms bigger than Loyolas.

[brewcity77]

Respectfully, this has gotten silly.

You use KenPom in a supporting way when it fits your preference, but dismiss it when it doesn't. Now 31 KenPom isn't good when higher has been in your other posts about others?

This season, literally just over two months ago, you were ready for Brian Wardle. Today he isn't on your radar.

Again, I don't really care about who you like and don't, but you are being disingenuous at best here.

I would rather you say you don't like Moser, but you realize his resume has been better than others you have advocated, here recently etc...

Well, I don't really care what you would rather. Saying "I don't like Moser" wouldn't be true. I don't like him as much as some others that are in the mix.

Also, I would 100% take Wardle over Wojo. I think Wardle is a superior coach to Wojo. So in December of last year, I would've taken Wardle over Wojo. But I'm basing my thoughts now on who we are showing interest in. Wojo is gone, so he's no longer the baseline, nor is Wardle.

[JWags85]

Your joke didn't even make sense.   And there are at least 16 hs gyms bigger than Loyolas.

"Frankly there are a lot of gyms bigger than Loyola"

And now you have less than 20. Nearly all of which are in Indiana. But sure.

"A lot of HS basketball players are drafted into the NBA each year" would be the same kind of statement. But sure, I'm not making sense. Admit it, you assumed the AL had like 1000 seats

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Impressive win by Loyola.  Better than any wins in their first FF run.

This moves Moser up in my book.  If Marquette hires him, I'd support him.

But I gotta wonder if the administration is willing to wait that long and risk missing out on their other options.

[Blackhat]

Really nobody cares wags, my point was Loyola has a tiny playing facility.