Porter Moser should be the guy

[Mu8891]

Moser ?

MU could do waaaaay worse

His recent achievements are amazing.
An FF and S16 at LOYOLA??!!

Friggin Loyola

[StillAWarrior]

In 4 hours we went from:
'we should for sure look at Moser in our top 5' to
'Moser has to be our number one pick' to
'we can't afford him and he's too big for us' to
'we missed our window he's going to the NBA' to
'we're going to lose him to DePaul'

Like I said up thread:  we're reactionary idiots. All fans, really. And in case anyone takes that personally, I'll quote the noted philosopher Kay: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Moser ?

MU could do waaaaay worse

His recent achievements are amazing.
An FF and S16 at LOYOLA??!!

Friggin Loyola

Indeed. Has anybody been to Loyola recently? Gentile Center hasn't changed at all since I was doing volleyball camps there in 2007. The fact he can get any semblance of talent to go there is incredible.

[JWags85]

Indeed. Has anybody been to Loyola recently? Gentile Center hasn't changed at all since I was doing volleyball camps there in 2007. The fact he can get any semblance of talent to go there is incredible.

What? They literally did a major renovation in 2011. That's why they got the VB Championship 5-6 years ago.  Just added a bunch of screens and LEDs post-FF and swapped out the floor last year. It's not the Fiserv, but it's not some bandbox dump.  Were you the guy calling it smaller than the Al too?

[brewcity77]

Illinois was the hottest team coming into the tourney not named Gonzaga. Calling them an "easy first found exit" is revisionist history.

Not when you picked them to lose this game it isn't. I was shocked when I heard Vegas was getting more money on Illinois than anyone else after the bracket came out. They had the toughest road to the Elite 8 of any 1-seed and clearly haven't been on par with teams like Gonzaga and Baylor for the balance of the season. I'm sure people feel bitter after losing a F4 or NC team, but seriously, this was a matchup they were never likely to win. Not in the second round.

[onepost]

Moser is the new Brad Stevens, now we might have to compete with the NBA for his services.

Alright calm down.

[rocky_warrior]

Not when you picked them to lose this game it isn't. I was shocked when I heard Vegas was getting more money on Illinois than anyone else after the bracket came out. They had the toughest road to the Elite 8 of any 1-seed and clearly haven't been on par with teams like Gonzaga and Baylor for the balance of the season. I'm sure people feel bitter after losing a F4 or NC team, but seriously, this was a matchup they were never likely to win. Not in the second round.

But if it had been Georgia Tech instead?

[Goose]

Chitown Moser

I agree we could a lot worse than Moser, but believe we can a lot better. I am pulling for big time at Loyola, like I did in 2018, and hope they pull off some more miracles. I want to program that is a high seed and not the tourney darling. Tourney darlings are a great story and everyone pulls for them and we should. I would be careful assuming that he could carry over his success to the BE.
That said, I agree that MU could do worse.

[Dish]

What? They literally did a major renovation in 2011. That's why they got the VB Championship 5-6 years ago.  Just added a bunch of screens and LEDs post-FF and swapped out the floor last year. It's not the Fiserv, but it's not some bandbox dump.  Were you the guy calling it smaller than the Al too?

Funny enough, I spec'd in and sold to Loyola all the screens and video walls at the Gentile Center.

[brewcity77]

But if it had been Georgia Tech instead?

Addressed earlier, but I didn't like Illinois' matchup there because of their weird zone. I picked Moser because he had a week to prepare, but I don't think Illinois would've won that on a short turn-around. That 8/9 was a nightmare for any 1-seed, but especially Illinois.

[MU82]

Chitown Moser

I agree we could a lot worse than Moser, but believe we can a lot better. I am pulling for big time at Loyola, like I did in 2018, and hope they pull off some more miracles. I want to program that is a high seed and not the tourney darling. Tourney darlings are a great story and everyone pulls for them and we should. I would be careful assuming that he could carry over his success to the BE.
That said, I agree that MU could do worse.

2018 felt like a lot of miracles, Goose. So far in 2021, including a decisive, never-in-doubt win over a 1-seed, it doesn't seem very miraculous.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

What? They literally did a major renovation in 2011. That's why they got the VB Championship 5-6 years ago.  Just added a bunch of screens and LEDs post-FF and swapped out the floor last year. It's not the Fiserv, but it's not some bandbox dump.  Were you the guy calling it smaller than the Al too?

Is it not? Always thought it was but the Al's dimensions are wonky because there's no seating on the end-lines.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I mean, it's not like the two seasons in between were abysmal.
20- and 21-win seasons, won the conference regular season title one year, finished second the next. Fluky losses in the conference tournament both years.

Thanks for the fix, TAMU. His first and second place finishes in his conference truly were epic failures. Much worse than any of Shaka's seasons since his last NCAA tourney win.

When you take a program to the final four, the expectations change and they should.

Greg Marshall followed up his Final Four with a perfect regular season and 4 consecutive top 15 KenPom finishes.

Shaka Smart followed up his Final Four with four consecutive NCAAT appearances

Porter Moser followed up his Final Four with two consecutive sub-100 KenPom finishes. He's back and better this season but that level of inconsistency is worrisome.

You say his two season in between weren't failures but they were. He underperformed by 65 spots in KenPom in the year after the Final Four. That's worse than anything Shaka did or even Wojo did. And it's not like they were high ranked to start, they were preseason 66. Finishing top 2 in a league where DePaul would have been the highest ranked KenPom team in one year and 2nd in the other is not impressive.

No one knows how a coach or player will handle the jump to the next level. Shaka fell short of expectations. I think there were legitimate reasons why that happened and a half step down to Marquette could see him be successful. I don't know how Moser will do at the next level. I do know that his resume is worse than Shaka's was when he made the jump up. Doesn't mean he won't be better but my experience is that March darlings seem to flop at the next level. I prefer guys with consistent success.

Moser has earned his way on to the list for sure. For me, he's still hovering towards the back of it but I wouldn't be upset if he was the pick. At least we can agree that he's better than Crean am I right?

[Silkk the Shaka]

Chitown Moser

I agree we could a lot worse than Moser, but believe we can a lot better. I am pulling for big time at Loyola, like I did in 2018, and hope they pull off some more miracles. I want to program that is a high seed and not the tourney darling. Tourney darlings are a great story and everyone pulls for them and we should. I would be careful assuming that he could carry over his success to the BE.
That said, I agree that MU could do worse.

These aren't "miracles" my man. The guy's got major chops. Shaka's FF is looking more and more like the miracle/fluke.

[RushmoreAcademy]

Moser put on a coaching clinic today. If you aren't at least looking in his direction you're a fool.

[MU82]

When you take a program to the final four, the expectations change and they should.

Greg Marshall followed up his Final Four with a perfect regular season and 4 consecutive top 15 KenPom finishes.

Shaka Smart followed up his Final Four with four consecutive NCAAT appearances

Porter Moser followed up his Final Four with two consecutive sub-100 KenPom finishes. He's back and better this season but that level of inconsistency is worrisome.

You say his two season in between weren't failures but they were. He underperformed by 65 spots in KenPom in the year after the Final Four. That's worse than anything Shaka did or even Wojo did. And it's not like they were high ranked to start, they were preseason 66. Finishing top 2 in a league where DePaul would have been the highest ranked KenPom team in one year and 2nd in the other is not impressive.

No one knows how a coach or player will handle the jump to the next level. Shaka fell short of expectations. I think there were legitimate reasons why that happened and a half step down to Marquette could see him be successful. I don't know how Moser will do at the next level. I do know that his resume is worse than Shaka's was when he made the jump up. Doesn't mean he won't be better but my experience is that March darlings seem to flop at the next level. I prefer guys with consistent success.

Moser has earned his way on to the list for sure. For me, he's still hovering towards the back of it but I wouldn't be upset if he was the pick. At least we can agree that he's better than Crean am I right?

You and I will disagree on how we define "failures."

Loyola can only compete in its league. It finished first and second in that league in those two "horrible" years. Both times, they suffered excruciating conference tournament losses. It happens.

I know you love Kenpom. That's cool. Kenpom hasn't won a game yet; no left hand and lateral quickness is suspect.

[brewcity77]

2018 felt like a lot of miracles, Goose. So far in 2021, including a decisive, never-in-doubt win over a 1-seed, it doesn't seem very miraculous.

In 2018, I wouldn't have wanted anything to do with Moser. Today I'd put him in my top-5 of candidates. Today was impressive, though it is only his second career top-20 win per kenpom. After pulling that Tennessee upset, they got a really fortunate draw in 2018 while that region fell into the toilet.

And echo everything TAMU said. There's stuff to like, but there are a lot of valid questions, and that's before getting to his lack of recruiting history.

[StillAWarrior]

When you take a program to the final four, the expectations change and they should.

Greg Marshall followed up his Final Four with a perfect regular season and 4 consecutive top 15 KenPom finishes.

Shaka Smart followed up his Final Four with four consecutive NCAAT appearances

Porter Moser followed up his Final Four with two consecutive sub-100 KenPom finishes. He's back and better this season but that level of inconsistency is worrisome.

You say his two season in between weren't failures but they were. He underperformed by 65 spots in KenPom in the year after the Final Four. That's worse than anything Shaka did or even Wojo did. And it's not like they were high ranked to start, they were preseason 66. Finishing top 2 in a league where DePaul would have been the highest ranked KenPom team in one year and 2nd in the other is not impressive.

No one knows how a coach or player will handle the jump to the next level. Shaka fell short of expectations. I think there were legitimate reasons why that happened and a half step down to Marquette could see him be successful. I don't know how Moser will do at the next level. I do know that his resume is worse than Shaka's was when he made the jump up. Doesn't mean he won't be better but my experience is that March darlings seem to flop at the next level. I prefer guys with consistent success.

Moser has earned his way on to the list for sure. For me, he's still hovering towards the back of it but I wouldn't be upset if he was the pick. At least we can agree that he's better than Crean am I right?

TAMU, I'm asking honestly: what guys with "consistent success" as head coaches do you think are viable candidates? I really don't want to see MU go down the assistant path again. Of the names I'm seeing thrown out consistently, I think several are pretty unrealistic, and several don't have "consistent success" as head coaches. I like both Moser and Shaka...with maybe an edge to Moser based, admittedly, on some recency bias. Both have some things that concern me a bit. While I don't know all that much about Gates, I'm not sure he checks that "consistent success" box as a head coach.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Stone cold locks needs to be cashed in picking games.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Especially when we heard for years it was MU players and not Wojo's defensive scheme. Those were 2 and 3 stars who just beat NBA draft picks.

It was both. Get rid of the Howard/Rowdy backcourt and defense jumps from 182 in KenPom to 45.

[Judge Smails]

It'll be interesting to see how this board feels about Moser if Loyola gets blown out by the Oklahoma St / Oregon St winner when it's played later this week (if the MU job is still open then).

[brewcity77]

It was both. Get rid of the Howard/Rowdy backcourt and defense jumps from 182 in KenPom to 45.

Except then it fell to 73 and 81. Rowsey was a problem, but that system was terrible.

[shoothoops]

When you take a program to the final four, the expectations change and they should.

Greg Marshall followed up his Final Four with a perfect regular season and 4 consecutive top 15 KenPom finishes.

Shaka Smart followed up his Final Four with four consecutive NCAAT appearances

Porter Moser followed up his Final Four with two consecutive sub-100 KenPom finishes. He's back and better this season but that level of inconsistency is worrisome.

You say his two season in between weren't failures but they were. He underperformed by 65 spots in KenPom in the year after the Final Four. That's worse than anything Shaka did or even Wojo did. And it's not like they were high ranked to start, they were preseason 66. Finishing top 2 in a league where DePaul would have been the highest ranked KenPom team in one year and 2nd in the other is not impressive.

No one knows how a coach or player will handle the jump to the next level. Shaka fell short of expectations. I think there were legitimate reasons why that happened and a half step down to Marquette could see him be successful. I don't know how Moser will do at the next level. I do know that his resume is worse than Shaka's was when he made the jump up. Doesn't mean he won't be better but my experience is that March darlings seem to flop at the next level. I prefer guys with consistent success.

Moser has earned his way on to the list for sure. For me, he's still hovering towards the back of it but I wouldn't be upset if he was the pick. At least we can agree that he's better than Crean am I right?

It's fair to mention season results to evaluate a coach. I am less interested in "expectations" year to year.

[JWags85]

Is it not? Always thought it was but the Al's dimensions are wonky because there's no seating on the end-lines.

It's about 1300 seats, or 33% bigger than the Al

[MU82]

In 2018, I wouldn't have wanted anything to do with Moser. Today I'd put him in my top-5 of candidates. Today was impressive, though it is only his second career top-20 win per kenpom. After pulling that Tennessee upset, they got a really fortunate draw in 2018 while that region fell into the toilet.

And echo everything TAMU said. There's stuff to like, but there are a lot of valid questions, and that's before getting to his lack of recruiting history.

Absolutely a lot of valid questions about Moser. His history before 2018 is not very good, he hasn't had to coach against many P6 programs except in his few NCAA appearances, he has never recruited P6 players, he plays an offensive style that although efficient might not attract some recruits, etc. All valid, yes. That's why I'm not sure where he ranks on my list.

Very easy to state many valid questions about Shaka, too, and they already have been stated. All we talk about here is Wojo not winning NCAAT games ... and this guy hasn't done it in 8 years, which is an eternity. So that's just the start. Two of those losses were to Northern Iowa and Abilene Christian. Plenty of others.

Could go up and down the list of candidates and do this for every one of them -- and, indeed, that's exactly what Scholl & Co. have to do. I'm a big fan of pro/con lists!

I hope you're at least ready to admit that 2018 and 2021 have been better than just "decent" seasons for Loyola, but maybe not. If not, I wonder what a "good" season would be!